European Council

Baroness Evans of Bowes Park Excerpts

Monday 23rd October 2017 Lords Chamber

[The Lord Privy Seal (Baroness Evans of Bowes Park) (Con)]

My Lords, with the leave of the House, I will now repeat a Statement made by my right honourable friend the Prime Minister in another place. The Statement is as follows:

“With permission, Mr Speaker, I would like to make a Statement on last week’s European Council.

Long after we have left the European Union, the UK will continue to be a strong and committed partner, standing alongside our neighbours and working together to advance our shared values and interests. This Council provided a further opportunity to demonstrate that ongoing commitment, through discussions that included migration, the digital single market, Turkey, North Korea and Iran, and it made important progress in moving towards the new, deep and special partnership with the European Union that we want to see.

First, on migration, the UK is playing its full part. The Royal Navy has intercepted 172 smuggling boats and saved over 12,000 lives since Operation Sophia began, while our National Crime Agency is working with Libyan law enforcement, enhancing its capability to tackle the people-smuggling and trafficking networks.

At the Council we welcomed the reduction in migrant crossings and the renewed momentum behind the Libyan political process, but we must also continue to address the root causes driving people across the Sahara and the Mediterranean. So the UK is continuing to invest for the long term in education, jobs and services in countries of both origin and transit.

On the digital single market, it is right to keep up the pressure on completing its implementation by the end of 2018. This will continue to be of benefit to us even after we leave the European Union. At this Council, I also argued that the free flow of data was key to unlocking the potential of Europe’s digital trade, and we secured conclusions which recognised this. As the Government set out in a paper over the summer, such arrangements will be an important part of the future relationship between the UK and the EU.

Turning to the discussions on Turkey, we share the concerns over the arrests of EU nationals and others defending human rights. This is something that I raised personally with President Erdogan when we met at the UN General Assembly, and we are publicly calling on Turkey to protect freedom of expression and release those defending human rights.

At the same time, I believe we must take a long-term view of the enduring importance of our relationship with Turkey—a vital partner in ensuring a secure and prosperous European neighbourhood. We must also continue to recognise the challenges it is responding to—not least that it faced a military coup only 16 months ago. So we must continue to work with Turkey as our ally and partner—in particular, as we respond to the shared challenges of terrorism, migration and instability in the Middle East. But, in doing so, we must do all we can to convince Turkey to demonstrate its commitment to human rights and the rule of law. To turn away from Turkey now would undermine those who seek to secure a European future based on our shared values.

On North Korea, we welcomed the EU sanctions adopted last week and reaffirmed our clear condemnation of North Korea’s aggressive and illegal missile and nuclear tests. We urged all states, including China, to play their part in changing the course Pyongyang is taking. On Iran, the Council built on the joint statement made by Chancellor Merkel, President Macron and myself last week, reiterating its firm commitment to the nuclear deal. This deal was the culmination of 13 years of diplomacy and a major step towards ensuring that Iran’s nuclear programme is not diverted for military purposes. That is vitally important for our shared security. We are continuing to work particularly closely with our French and German allies on this crucial issue.

Turning to our negotiations to leave the European Union, I shared the vision I set out in Florence for a creative and pragmatic approach to a new, deep and special partnership between the United Kingdom and the European Union. It is a partnership based on the fundamental beliefs we share—in democracy and the rule of law, but also in free trade, rigorous and fair competition, strong consumer rights and high regulatory standards. I have also been clear that the United Kingdom is unconditionally committed to maintaining Europe’s security. Both sides have approached these talks with professionalism and a constructive spirit and we should recognise what has been achieved to date.

On citizens’ rights, both sides share the same objective of safeguarding the rights of EU nationals living in the UK and UK nationals living in the EU. This has been my first priority from the very beginning of the negotiations, and it remains so. The negotiations are complicated and deeply technical, but in the end they are about people, and I am determined that we will put people first. EU citizens make an extraordinary contribution to our national life and we want them to stay. I know that EU member states also value the UK nationals living in their communities and I want them to have their rights protected too. We are united on the key principles, and while there are a small number of issues that remain outstanding, we are in touching distance of a deal.

This agreement will provide certainty about residence, healthcare, pensions and other benefits. It will mean that EU nationals who have paid into the UK system, and UK nationals who have paid into the system of an EU 27 country, can benefit from what they have put in. It will enable families who have built their lives together to stay together. It will provide guarantees that the rights of those UK nationals currently living in the EU, and EU citizens currently living in the UK, will not diverge over time.

We will also ensure that the implementation of the agreement we reach does not create complicated and bureaucratic hurdles. For example, I have said that applying for settled status will cost no more than a UK passport and that people applying will no longer have to demonstrate comprehensive sickness insurance. We will also do everything possible to work closely with EU member states to ensure that their processes are equally streamlined for British nationals living in their countries.

We have also made significant progress on Northern Ireland, where it is absolutely imperative that joint work on the peace process is not affected in any way. The Belfast agreement must be at the heart of our approach and we have clearly agreed that the unique circumstances across the whole of the island of Ireland will require specific solutions. There will not be any physical infrastructure at the border and we have also developed joint principles to ensure the continuation of the common travel area. These principles will fully preserve the rights of UK and Irish nationals to live, work and study across these islands and protect the associated rights to public services and social security.

This Council provided an opportunity to assess and reflect on how to make further progress in the negotiations. My speech in Florence made two important steps, which have added a new impetus. First, I gave two clear commitments on the financial settlement: that the UK will honour commitments we have made during the period of our membership, and that none of our EU partners should fear that they will need to pay more or receive less over the remainder of the current budget plan as a result of our decision to leave. As the House would expect, we are going through our potential commitments line by line and that detailed work continues. Secondly, I proposed a time-limited implementation period based on current terms, which is in the interest of both the UK and the EU.

At this Council, the 27 member states responded by agreeing to start their preparations for moving negotiations on to trade and the future relationship we want to see. The Council’s conclusions call for work to continue with a view to be able to move to the second phase of the negotiations as soon as possible. President Tusk in his press conference was clear that the EU’s internal work,

‘will take account of proposals’,

presented in the Florence speech, and, indeed, that this agreement to start preparatory discussions would not be possible without the new momentum given by that speech.

I am ambitious and positive about Britain’s future and these negotiations. If we are going to take a step forward together it must be on the basis of joint effort and endeavour between the UK and the EU, but I believe that by approaching these negotiations in a constructive way—in a spirit of friendship and co-operation —we can and will deliver the best possible outcome that works for all our people. That is a belief that was shared by other European leaders.

We are going to leave the European Union in March 2019, delivering on the democratic will of the British people. Of course we are preparing for every eventuality to ensure we leave in a smooth and orderly way, but I am confident that we will be able to negotiate a new, deep and special partnership between a sovereign United Kingdom and our friends in the European Union. That is my mission, that is this Government’s mission, and I commend this Statement to the House”.

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[Lord Newby (LD)]

My Lords, during the past week the Prime Minister has adopted two novel negotiating tactics. First, she decided on a personal diplomatic mission to the Commission, to be conducted over dinner. Yet according to reports, the meal lasted only just over an hour, which was barely enough time for a leisurely pizza, far less the sort of event that was likely to commend itself to the President of the European Commission. What was the purpose of this event, given its brevity and the lack of any new substantive proposals made at it by the Prime Minister? Secondly, the Prime Minister adopted the stance, “Please give me a good deal because my domestic parliamentary position is so weak”. Is the noble Baroness aware of any successful negotiations in which pleading one’s weakness has strengthened one’s hand? Do the Government really believe that the threat of no deal is credible, when the Brexit Secretary has described it as in effect a negotiating ploy just left on the table for the time being and the Home Secretary has called such an option simply untenable?

One of the first issues debated at the summit was the digital single market. The Prime Minister says that,

“it is right to keep up the pressure on completing its implementation … This will continue to be of benefit to us even after we leave the European Union”.

But we will not be members of the digital single market, so it is inconceivable that we will be as well off in respect of it outside as we would inside. What commitment are the Government prepared to make that, outside the EU, they will adopt the standards and regulations of the digital market so that we will gain the benefit of it?

The Government say that they welcome the EU sanctions on North Korea—as does the whole House. We are shortly to get a sanctions Bill in your Lordships’ House to deal with the position post Brexit, under which we will take control of and have sovereignty over own sanctions, but does the noble Baroness agree that, on matters such as North Korea, such sanctions are effective only if we are in lock-step with the EU so that a common front is presented to the North Koreans, or against whomever else such sanctions are adopted? Have the Government given any thought to what sort of mechanism they will put in place to ensure that, as far as sanctions are concerned, it is possible to adopt that kind of lock-step? At the moment, it is completely unclear how that will be achieved.

The Prime Minister states that, up to now:

“Both sides have approached these talks with professionalism and a constructive spirit—and we should recognise what has been achieved to date”.


That is undoubtedly true, but we should also recognise what has not been achieved to date. Last week should have been the point at which substantive progress had been achieved on the three matters which it had been agreed would be prioritised so that we could get on to discussing the future trading and other relationships with the EU, but the truth is that we are nowhere near that point. At best, we might have reached it by the end of December, in which case substantive negotiations on all future aspects of our relationship will not start until January, a mere few months before those negotiations must be completed.

On citizens’ rights, one of the individual issues that have caused the hold-up, the Government come out with warm words, but why have they not simply given an unequivocal commitment that they will protect in full the rights of all EU citizens now? The Government say that we are making great progress and that we are almost there, but we do not know that and, certainly, the 3 million EU citizens in this country do not believe it. They retain a huge degree of scepticism about their status going forward. This is to be “settled status”, which we are told is going to be done easily and cheaply, but what time period have the Government in mind to grant settled status to more than 3 million EU nationals in this country? What resources are available? Are they satisfied that the Home Office and the Immigration Service have either the track record, the ethos or the resources to do this in a fair and expeditious manner?

On Northern Ireland, the principles are all agreed. We want—the Government want and the Irish want—a frictionless border. However, we have had a customs White Paper which should really have been a Green Paper because it asks as many questions as it answers. It said, for example, that more than 80% of north-south trade was by SMEs and there will be no requirement for customs processes at the land border. That sounds rather reassuring, but the weasel words are “at the land border”. What sort of processes do the Government have in mind not at the land border, and what kind of costs do they think SMEs are going to have to incur to establish these processes? In what degree of detail have the Government, somewhere in their mind, any sense of what these processes might look like?

On the financial settlement, absolutely no progress whatever appears to have been made last week.

Finally, the Prime Minister spent quite a bit of her Statement under the heading “Moving forwards”, which is quite an achievement, given that there has been virtually no moving forwards. She says that she wants to leave in a smooth and orderly way. One key element of leaving in a smooth and orderly way is to transpose all existing EU law into domestic law. The withdrawal Bill, a relatively straight Bill in concept, is totally bogged down because of divisions in the Cabinet. What can the noble Baroness say about when she expects that Bill to start in the Commons, far less here? Because once it has gone through, and with a bit of luck it might be done by Easter, we will have 1,000 statutory instruments to get through before we are in a position to begin to contemplate withdrawal in a smooth and orderly way. There is nothing in this Statement to give any objective observer any sense that smooth and orderly is the way that this Government are heading.

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

I thank the noble Baroness and the noble Lord for their somewhat gloomy assessment of where we have got to. I hope that during the course of my remarks I will show that, actually, we have made progress at this European Council and that some of the comments made were not a fair reflection on where we have got to and the progress we have been making.

However, I begin with digital, which both the noble Lord and the noble Baroness raised. They are absolutely right that we have played a key role in this area, and in fact our leadership and engagement has continued to deliver concrete results since the referendum. The geo-blocking regulations made rapid progress to reach general approach in council and the portability regulations have reached agreement in near record time, largely thanks to the UK’s involvement. At this summit all the leaders agreed that the free flow of data initiative is critical, but of course this is not just an EU issue, it is an international issue. The single cyberspace is global and therefore we will continue to play an important role with all our international partners in this area. We are absolutely clear, as is the EU, that digital data and cyber will be key areas for our future partnership and we want to continue the work we have done together.

I assure the noble Baroness that we are engaging very closely with business. Indeed, the fact that we want our departure to be as smooth as possible is one of the key reasons behind the Prime Minister’s proposing a strictly time-limited implementation period based on the existing structure of EU rules and regulations. We do not want British businesses to face a cliff edge. We are certainly cognisant of the concerns of business, we are having continual discussions and that is what lies behind that section of the Prime Minister’s Florence speech.

The noble Baroness and the noble Lord both raised the withdrawal Bill. It has not stalled. No date was ever set for Committee in the House of Commons. It was never announced. Of course, with some 300 amendments and 54 new clauses being proposed, it is only right that the Government evaluate these and ensure that they have a suitable response. I know that in this House your Lordships would expect us to take all your Lordships’ concerns extremely seriously so it is good to see the Commons are taking the same approach as we do here.

As I said, I do not recognise the gloomy outlook presented by the noble Baroness and the noble Lord. We did make progress and we have moved forward. For instance, the Taoiseach said he thought the Prime Minister’s speech was “very positive” and:

“I thought it was very good. The language was the right language. It was very strong”.


Chancellor Angela Merkel said:

“In contrast to how it is portrayed in the British press, my impression is that these talks are moving forward step by step”.


The Polish Prime Minister and the Swedish Prime Minister both said that progress has been made and that the Prime Minister’s Florence speech has helped move things forward.

Of course, we very much welcome that the EU has decided to start its own preparatory work on how it sees the future relationship working, as that will allow us to accelerate talks once it is ready to join the conversation. We have always been clear that the issue of sufficient progress and the sequencing of events has been an EU construct, not a UK one. Our position has been clear: the issues around withdrawal and our future relationships are inextricably linked.

The noble Lord asked about sanctions against North Korea. He is absolutely right that we have been working very closely with our EU partners. Again, the approach and response to North Korea is a global one, which is why we have been at the forefront of international efforts to ensure full enforcement of UN sanctions against North Korea, and are working with international partners to maximise the diplomatic and economic pressure on it to change its course. We will of course continue to do that.

Finally, the Prime Minister could not have been clearer—and the Statement made it very clear—that citizens’ rights is a priority for us. We have committed to no longer requiring EU citizens settling here to demonstrate comprehensive sickness insurance, as they have to under EU rules; to keeping the cost of the settlement process a low as possible; to establishing a simple process to allow people who already have permanent residence to swap this for a new settled status; and to setting up a new user group to include representatives of EU citizens in the UK and digital technical experts to make sure that the process is transparent. In the fourth round of talks, we offered the guaranteed right of return for settled citizens in the UK in exchange for onward movement rights for British citizens currently living in the EU. We have put forward a comprehensive package on EU citizens because we recognise—and have said time and again—how valued they are in this country and we want that relationship to continue. We are now waiting for the EU to come back with its response.

[Lord Lamont of Lerwick (Con)]

My Lords, I commend the progress made, which was confirmed by several Heads of Government who were represented at the talks. I will ask the Leader two questions. First, will she make it clear that one cannot have an implementation period until one has agreed what is to be implemented; and that a transitional period or an implementation period has to come after the main issues have been agreed, rather than the other way round? That needs to be made clear, both to the Opposition and to the CBI, which has been pressing on this point. Secondly, will my noble friend confirm that while the Government and the Prime Minister in particular have said in the past that no deal is better than a bad deal, the Government’s objective is not no deal—the Government’s objective is to get a deal, and a good deal?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

I thank my noble friend and I can certainly assure the whole House that he is absolutely right: we are working hard to get a good deal. We believe we can get a good deal. We believe there is will on both sides to get a good deal and that is absolutely our focus. He is also absolutely right, as I said in reply to the noble Baroness and the noble Lord, that we have been clear and believe that the issues around our withdrawal and future relationships are inextricably linked. We are very pleased that the EU has now decided to start its own preparatory work on the future relationship and we are sure that once we begin adding that into the mix of discussions, these negotiations will continue to make the progress that we have seen over the past few days.

[Lord Lea of Crondall (Lab)]

My Lords, on Brexit the unstated question which will be asked more and more insistently is: “Transition to what?”. On this point, will the noble Baroness the Leader of the House ask the Foreign Secretary whether he recalls from his days studying classical Greek the play “The Birds”, written by Aristophanes in the 4th century BC, in which having become dissatisfied with the governance of the realm the ruler of his country and his queen—Queen Sovereignty by name—commissioned the sacred birds to carry out a reconnaissance mission to find a more fitting place for the seat of his Government? They duly carried out this mission and reported that the name of this place was cloud-cuckoo-land.

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[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

I thank the noble Lord for those interesting comments.

[Lord Hannay of Chiswick (CB)]

My Lords, will the Minister accept my congratulations on two points? The first is the stance that the Government have taken on Iran, bilaterally with the President of the United States and at the European Council. Does she not find it a trifle odd that while we are preparing to leave the European Union our closest allies in this matter, which affects our national security, are indeed the main members of the European Union? Will she confirm that in Washington, the three countries that are so concerned—France, Germany and Britain—are working very closely to persuade Congressmen on the Hill not to move that dangerous step closer to another dispute in the Middle East?

The second congratulation is on the Prime Minister having ignored the letter that she received from some of her colleagues—I noticed that there was no reference to it— suggesting that she should leave the negotiations if there was not agreement on trade straightaway, which there has not been. Does that not demonstrate that it really is high time for the Government to put on the table in black and white what the consequences of leaving without a deal would be? Would that not be the best course and would it not bring it home to people, right across the European Union, that this option needs to be rejected?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

I thank the noble Lord for his congratulations. They do not happen very often so I shall attempt to respond positively. I do not think it odd at all that our closest allies in relation to Iran are France and Germany. We are an international, global country and we have strong relationships across the world. Our three countries are all committed to the Iran deal, and it is working. The International Atomic Energy Agency has released eight reports on Iran’s nuclear programme since the implementation day of the joint comprehensive plan, all of which confirmed that Iran is fulfilling its obligations under the deal. The Prime Minister could not have been stronger in making that message clear and we were very pleased that the Council built on the joint statement made last week by the Prime Minister, Chancellor Merkel and President Macron, which reiterated our firm commitment to the nuclear deal. We will continue to support that.

In relation to the noble Lord’s second question, as I said in response to my noble friend Lord Lamont, the highest probability is that we will get a good deal but it is only right that we prepare for a no-deal situation. What we cannot and will not do is to publish information which will undermine our ability to negotiate that best deal for Britain.

[Baroness Ludford (LD)]

My Lords, the Government claim that they are committed to European security arrangements and the free flow of data. How will they ensure that those continue if they pull out of reciprocity instruments, the European Charter of Fundamental Rights and the EU court’s jurisdiction? Those moves will all prejudice the vital, mutual recognition and adequacy assessments on which continued co-operation is in fact conditional.

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[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

As I have said, we obviously have a strong and close relationship on these issues from being in the EU. We will continue to do so because we are seen as a world leader in this by our EU partners and we all know the benefits of working together. For instance, as the noble Baroness will know, we are already incorporating the new EU general data protection regulation and the data protection directive within the Data Protection Bill, which is in front of your Lordships’ House. We will have an unprecedented level of regulatory alignment in this area so that a new, ambitious partnership can be built on the kind of relationships that we already have.

[Lord Hamilton of Epsom (Con)]

My Lords, my noble friend has reiterated the Prime Minister’s position that we will pay what we owe the EU, which presumably takes us up to the end of the budget period in 2020. However, if we were to leave in the spring of 2019 with no deal, surely at that point would we not stop paying?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

As the Prime Minister made clear, we have said to our EU partners that we need to reach a fair settlement on our rights and obligations. We also made clear in the Florence speech that they do not need to fear that they will need to pay more or receive less over the remainder of the current budget plan as a result of our decision to leave. Following the process agreed in the last round of talks, we have undertaken a detailed and rigorous examination of the technical detail, aiming to reach a shared view on these issues.

[Lord Liddle (Lab)]

Can I ask the Minister for clarification of what is meant by “transition and implementation”? It seems to me that business—various bodies representing business have written to the Prime Minister—wants a transition period which gives us more time to negotiate the deep and comprehensive agreement that the Government are talking about, in which period we will remain in the single market. Are the Government rejecting that request, or are the Government still committed to the completion of the negotiations on a comprehensive trade deal by next October, which virtually everyone in the know thinks is a completely unrealistic objective? If that is their objective, why can they not table now their proposals for the framework, at least, for the future economic relationship rather than the three sentences that the Prime Minister devoted to it in her Florence speech?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

We will be leaving the EU and its institutions in March 2019, but at that point neither the UK nor the EU will be in a position to implement smoothly many of the detailed arrangements that will underpin this new relationship, so the implementation period is a bridge from our exit to our future partnership.

[Baroness Watkins of Tavistock (CB)]

My Lords, will the Minister explain whether the Cabinet and the Prime Minister understand the uncertainty that EU citizens here feel at the moment? They do not understand what settled status means and whether it means that they can go back to their own countries later on if they want to. I spent last weekend visiting someone in one of the large teaching hospitals. Three out of the five nurses I met were from the EU. They all want to stay here for a considerable length of time, but they do not want to stay if it means that in the long term they cannot go home. They are also asking, as are many people, why the Scottish Government have already said that they will pay any costs associated with public servants applying for settled status but the same assurance has not been given to people working in England. We need to know that it is vital that we retain our current health service and social care workers from the EU because we are having such difficulty recruiting people in the short term during this unsettled period.

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

I thank the noble Baroness for her question. I do not know how we could have been clearer in the Statement in saying that this is an absolute priority for the Government. It always has been. We have put forward a generous offer and a suggested approach, and we are now waiting to hear from the EU. As I said, in the fourth round of talks we offered a guaranteed right of return for settled citizens in the UK in exchange for onward movement rights for British citizens currently living in the EU. As the noble Baroness will know—we discussed this at length during the Article 50 Bill—we have to look at the rights of EU citizens in the UK and the rights of UK citizens in the EU. That is the position that we have held. I reiterate, and can assure her, that this is a priority for us. We believe we are making progress. There are just a small number of issues left. We are very hopeful that discussions can move on in coming weeks and that we will come to a good deal which will provide reassurance for EU citizens here and UK citizens in the EU.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, it is a pity that we did not take the advice of this House on EU citizens, but I very strongly welcome what my noble friend has said about the Government wanting a deal. But would she agree that that would be much more credible if we did not have the sort of carping at the Chancellor that has appeared in the press today? He is doing his very best to bring reality to the economic aspects of this, and it is crucial that he has the support—the united, non-carping support—of the Cabinet. Would my noble friend agree?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

I certainly agree that all the Cabinet is focused on ensuring that we achieve a good deal. We all want that and are all behind the Prime Minister. As I have already said, the response from other leaders at the EU Council shows that we are making progress and that there is a willingness for us all to move on. That is what we must focus on.

[Lord Wallace of Saltaire (LD)]

My Lords, I welcome the Government’s change of position on continuing post-Brexit co-operation on internal security and foreign policy. The problem I have is that what I hear from the Government is that we want to continue but are waiting for the EU to propose how. Will we have any of our own proposals on how we will manage when we leave the extensive institutional co-operation in foreign policy which has grown up, often under British initiative, in the last 40 years, or when we leave Europol, if we are going to leave? I remember the nonsense from the leave campaign about how Interpol was perfectly adequate and we did not need Europol. Clearly we do. What proposals are the Government going to make on this, or are they simply going to say that the other side have to tell us how it can be done?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

The noble Lord will be aware that we have published, I think, 14 various types of papers over the last few weeks, some of which were on security. In fact, the EU 27 has made clear in its negotiation guidelines that it stands ready to establish partnerships in the fight against terrorism and international crime as well as on security, defence and foreign policy. We are working on those details. We certainly value, for instance, the role of Europol in helping law enforcement agencies co-ordinate investigations, and there is good precedent for third-country participation in it. Structures are already in place, which we will be looking to involve ourselves in. We want a relationship in this area, and understand the importance of it, but obviously the detail will be for the negotiations.

[Lord Davies of Stamford (Lab)]

The Government claim to have a magic formula for customs. Will they set out the full technical detail of how that works, what it would cost and who would pay that cost? Until they have done those things, no one will be able to evaluate their proposal or agree to it, and there will not be any progress on that item.

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

I am afraid I missed the beginning of that question because of other noble Lords speaking.

[Lord Davies of Stamford]

Will the Government set out, in full technical detail, their proposal for creating a customs barrier in Ireland without any infrastructure on the ground?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

As the noble Lord will be well aware, there is absolute commitment on both sides to ensure that we do not return to the border of the past. The discussions will continue in the negotiations, and when we are ready to put forward proposals, we will do so.

[Lord Low of Dalston (CB)]

My Lords, will the Leader of the House not agree that there is no solution to the Irish border problem if the UK leaves the customs union? If she does not agree, could she say what the solution is?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

No, I do not believe that that will an issue in that sense. We have already committed to not returning to the border of the past and to working together on this. There is plenty of technology and other things that mean we will come up, with the EU, with an option that works for the island of Ireland and for Northern Ireland as part of the UK.

[Lord Robathan (Con)]

My Lords—

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[Lord Robathan]

My Lords, surely it cannot be that our friends and allies—our partners in the EU and neighbours across the channel—are trying to humiliate us, to obstruct us or indeed, to quote Michel Barnier, to “educate” the British people, which sounds like teaching us a lesson; and yet I read commentators saying that that is the case. I trust it is not. Can my noble friend tell me what the response of Her Majesty’s Government would be were this to be the case?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

As I set out earlier, and judging from the quotes I have read from a number of other leaders, there was a constructive relationship and a constructive discussion at the European Council. That is what we are focusing on and what will lead to these negotiations leading to a good deal for the EU and the UK, because that is in the best interests of both sides.

[Lord Campbell-Savours]

My Lords, may I press the Minister on the question of the Irish border? How can we be sure that the customs entry for a container of goods passing through a customs post at Newry, north of Dundalk, is an accurate list of the goods in the container without the right of customs to open the container and check the goods being transported against the entry? Effectively, that means a hard border. How can that be avoided?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

As I have said, we have published our White Paper setting out our objectives for a new customs arrangement. Obviously, there is a lot of detail to work out but we are starting from the same place, which is that we do not want to return to the hard border of the past. We will work through these issues and deliver an outcome for the EU, the UK and Northern Ireland.

[Lord Empey (UUP)]

My Lords, is it not the case that without certainty, negotiating a settlement for Ireland without knowing the trading context is putting the cart before the horse? Do we not need these two things, which are inextricably linked, to be negotiated simultaneously, instead of this nonsense of trying to establish what the arrangements are going to be without knowing what the trade arrangements are going to be?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

I entirely agree. That is why I have said that our position has been clear: our issues around withdrawal, our future relationships and the structures we have in place are all inextricably linked.

[Lord Balfe (Con)]

My Lords, I wish to refer to two points in the Statement. The first relates to Operation Sophia. I was on the committee of this House that produced the report Operation Sophia: A Failed Mission. We looked closely at it, and I know the EU has looked very closely at our conclusions. When we leave foreign policy co-operation, that will no longer be possible for us to write.

Secondly, I draw attention to the item on Turkey. Traditionally we have been very realistic about Turkey. A number of European partners have been much tougher than us and, in many ways, much less wise. If our moderating voice is missing from the Council, surely that—our foreign policy co-operation—is yet another way in which our departure will weaken not only Europe but Britain’s ability to have our voice listened to with respect and acted upon.

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

We have certainly condemned recent developments in Turkey, and obviously there was the discussion in the EU Council. We will continue to have our voice heard even when we leave the EU because we are a key part of other international bodies that are concerned with this area. On the noble Lord’s first point, it is important to recognise that since June, migration flows across the Aegean are significantly down, thanks to considerable efforts on all sides, and there were fewer than 6,000 arrivals to Italy in September. Obviously, we have seen some appalling things happening in that area, but international action—with us involved in the EU, but there is also the great work the Royal Navy is doing there—is making a difference. It is critical that we stop people-smuggling and stop advantage being taken of these very vulnerable people, to try to ensure that we can improve their situation and lives.

Business of the House

Baroness Evans of Bowes Park Excerpts

Thursday 19th October 2017 Lords Chamber

Moved by

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

That Standing Order 72 (Affirmative Instruments) be dispensed with on Tuesday 24 October to enable a motion to approve the draft Misuse of Drugs Act 1971 (Amendment) (No. 2) Order 2017 to be moved, notwithstanding that no report from the Joint Committee on Statutory Instruments on the instrument has been laid before the House.

[The Lord Privy Seal (Baroness Evans of Bowes Park) (Con)]

My Lords, the Motion standing in my name will allow us to dispense with Standing Order 72 next Tuesday so that we can take an SI relating to the control of a synthetic drug under the Misuse of Drugs Act 1971. We need to suspend it because the Joint Committee on Statutory Instruments, which would normally report on affirmative instruments before they are taken, is yet to be reappointed. The Senior Deputy Speaker confirmed the Members of this House who will serve on that committee on 19 July. The appointment of Commons Members is of course a matter for that House, but the Joint Committee does vital work in the scrutiny of secondary legislation and, in my view, the sooner it is up and running, the better. I beg to move.

[Lord Newby (LD)]

My Lords, I am sorry to detain the House on this matter. The Motion before us looks pretty innocuous and we on this side have no objection to the Government’s proposals.

However, as the noble Baroness has explained, the need for this Motion arises from the fact that the Joint Committee on Statutory Instruments has not considered the SI. The reason for that, as we have heard, is that it has not been reconstituted since the general election. Indeed, I believe it has not met since March. The reason for that is because the Commons has not nominated its Members. I fully understand the convention that this House does not criticise the workings of the Commons, and I have no intention of doing so. The delay in this case is caused entirely by the Government’s contentious approach to party balance on all Commons committees, which rightly caused significant political controversy, debate and delay in the other place.

I have three questions for the noble Baroness, as I understand the process in the Commons is slowly cranking into gear. First, will the Government now do all they can to expedite the formation of this very important Joint Committee? Secondly, do the Government have any date in mind when they believe that this will be achieved? Thirdly, how many affirmative resolution statutory instruments are there in the pipeline that we would normally have considered and which have not been able to be brought before this House since the last meeting of the Joint Committee on Statutory Instruments in March?

[Baroness Smith of Basildon (Lab)]

My Lords, I concur with the comments made by the noble Lord the Leader of the Liberal Democrats. This is a really sad state of affairs. I congratulate the noble Baroness on bringing this Motion before the House today as it is the right course of action. It is exceptional and urgent, and not to do so would have grave consequences.

Having said that, this is unprecedented. I do not know whether any other noble Lords can recall this happening before; certainly I cannot. On a straw poll of other colleagues, I am not aware that it has ever happened before that the JCSI has not been set up in time for the House to consider business of this kind.

The noble Lord, Lord Newby, makes an important point. The Labour names are ready and waiting to set up this committee. The only thing holding it up is that the Government have failed to do so. So it is right that we consider this today, but it is an emergency situation; it is unprecedented and can only be exceptional. In this case, I think the noble Baroness has to speak for the Government and not just for the House of Lords. She has to tell us when the committee will be set up and assure us that it will not happen again and another such Motion will not come before this House.

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

I thank the noble Baroness and the noble Lord for their interventions. The noble Baroness is absolutely right: standing orders are very rarely suspended, and only when there is agreement to do so does it happen. She is absolutely right that this is a case when it needs to happen, and I thank the House for its appreciation of that. As I said, the nomination of Commons Members to serve on Joint Committees is a matter for the usual channels in the House of Commons and I cannot say anything further on that, but this House has made its views very clear and I hope the Commons will hear them.

Motion agreed.

Business of the House

Baroness Evans of Bowes Park Excerpts

Thursday 12th October 2017 Lords Chamber

Moved by

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

That the debate on the motion in the name of Lord Smith of Leigh set down for today shall be limited to 3 hours and that in the name of Lord Knight of Weymouth to 2 hours.

Motion agreed.

Brexit: UK Plans

Baroness Evans of Bowes Park Excerpts

Monday 9th October 2017 Lords Chamber

[The Lord Privy Seal (Baroness Evans of Bowes Park) (Con)]

My Lords, I should like to repeat a Statement made in the other place by my right honourable friend the Prime Minister. The Statement is as follows:

“With permission, Mr Speaker, I would like to update the House on our plans for leaving the European Union. Today, the fifth round of negotiations begins in Brussels and this Government are getting on with the job of delivering the democratic will of the British people. As I set out in my speech in Florence, we want to take a creative and pragmatic approach to securing a new, deep and special partnership with the European Union which spans both a new economic relationship and a new security relationship. Let me set out what each of these relationships could look like before turning to how we get there.

I have been clear that when we leave the European Union we will no longer be members of its single market or its customs union. The British people voted for control of their borders, their laws and their money, and that is what this Government are going to deliver. At the same time, we want to find a creative solution to a new economic relationship that can support prosperity for all our peoples. We do not want to settle for adopting a model enjoyed by other countries, so we have rejected the idea of something based on European Economic Area membership. This would mean having to adopt, automatically and in their entirety, new EU rules over which in future we would have little influence and no vote. Neither are we seeking a Canadian-style free trade agreement, for compared with what exists today, this would represent such a restriction on our mutual market access that it would benefit none of our economies.

Instead, I am proposing a unique and ambitious economic partnership. It will reflect our unprecedented position of starting with the same rules and regulations. We will maintain our unequivocal commitment to free trade and high standards, and we will need a framework to manage where we continue to align and where we choose to differ. There will be areas of policy and regulation which are outside the scope of our trade and economic relations where this should be straightforward. There will be areas which do affect our economic relations where we and our European friends may have different goals, or where we share the same goals but want to achieve them through different means. There will also be areas where we want to achieve the same goals in the same ways because it makes sense for our economies. Because rights and obligations must be held in balance, the decisions we both take will have consequences for the UK’s access to the EU market and EU access to our market, but this dynamic, creative and unique economic partnership will enable the UK and the EU to work side by side in bringing shared prosperity to our peoples.

Let me turn to the new security relationship. As I said when I visited our troops serving on the NATO mission in Estonia last month, the United Kingdom is unconditionally committed to maintaining Europe’s security. We will continue to offer aid and assistance to EU member states that are the victims of armed aggression, terrorism and natural or manmade disasters. We are proposing a bold new strategic agreement that provides a comprehensive framework for future security, law enforcement and criminal justice co-operation: a treaty between the UK and the EU. We are also proposing a far-reaching partnership on how together we protect Europe from the threats we face in the world today. This partnership will be unprecedented in its breadth and depth, taking in co-operation on diplomacy, defence and security, and development.

Let me turn to how we build a bridge from where we are now to the new relationship that we want to see. When we leave the European Union on 29 March 2019, neither the UK nor the EU and its member states will be in a position to implement smoothly many of the detailed arrangements which will underpin the new relationship we seek. Businesses will need time to adjust and Governments will need to put new systems in place, and businesses want certainty about the position in the interim. That is why I suggested in my speech at Lancaster House that there should be a period of implementation and why I proposed such a period in my speech in Florence last month. During this strictly time-limited period, we will have left the EU and its institutions, but we are proposing that for this period, access to one another’s markets should continue on current terms and Britain should also continue to take part in existing security measures.

The framework for this period, which can be agreed under Article 50, would be the existing structure of EU rules and regulations. I know some people may have concerns about that, but there are two reasons why it makes sense. First, we want our departure from the EU to be as smooth as possible. It would not make sense to make businesses and people plan for two sets of changes in the relationship between the UK and the EU. Secondly, we should concentrate our negotiating time and capital on what really matters—the future long-term relationship we will have with the EU after this temporary period ends. During the implementation period, people will continue to be able to come and live and work in the UK, but there will be a registration system: an essential preparation for the new immigration system required to retake control of our borders. Our intention is that new arrivals would be subject to new rules for EU citizens on long-term settlement.

We will also push forward on our future independent trade policy, talking to trading partners across the globe and preparing to introduce those deals once this period is over. The length of the period should be determined simply by how long it will take to prepare and implement the new systems we need. As of today, these considerations point to an implementation period of around two years. As I said in Florence, because I do not believe that either the EU or the British people will want us to stay in the existing structures longer than is necessary, we could also agree to bring forward aspects of that future framework, such as new dispute resolution mechanisms, more quickly if that can be done smoothly. At the heart of these arrangements, there should be a clear double lock: giving businesses and people certainty that they will be able to prepare for the change and guaranteeing that the implementation period will be time limited, giving everyone the certainty this will not go on for ever.

The purpose of the Florence speech was to move negotiations forwards. That is exactly what has happened. As Michel Barnier said after the last round, there is a ‘new dynamic’ in negotiations. I pay tribute to my right honourable friend the Secretary of State for Exiting the European Union for all he has done to drive through real and tangible progress in a number of vital areas. On citizens’ rights, as I have said many times, the Government greatly value the contributions of all EU citizens who have made their lives in our country. We want them to stay. In Florence, I gave further commitments that the rights of EU citizens in the UK and UK citizens in the EU will not diverge over time, committing to incorporate our agreement on citizens’ rights fully into UK law and making sure that UK courts can refer directly to it. Since Florence, there has been more progress, including reaching agreement on reciprocal healthcare and pensions and encouraging further alignment on a range of important social security rights. I hope our negotiating teams can now reach full agreement quickly.

On Northern Ireland, we have now begun drafting joint principles on preserving the common travel area and associated rights; we have both stated explicitly that we will not accept any physical infrastructure at the border. We owe it to the people of Northern Ireland, and indeed to everyone on the island of Ireland, to get this right.

Then, there is the question of the EU budget. As I have said, that can only be resolved as part of the settlement of all the issues we are working through. Still, I do not want our partners to fear that they will need to pay more or receive less over the remainder of the current budget plan as a result of our decision to leave. The UK will honour commitments we have made during the period of our membership, and as we move forward, we will also want to continue to work together in ways that promote the long-term economic development of our continent. That includes continuing to take part in those specific policies and programmes that are greatly to our joint advantage, such as those that promote science, education and culture, and those that promote our mutual security. As I set out in my speech at Lancaster House, in doing so we would want to make a contribution to cover our fair share of the costs involved.

I continued discussions on many of these issues when I met with European leaders in Tallinn at the end of last month. In the bilateral discussions I had with Chancellor Merkel, Prime Minister Szydło, President Tusk and the Taoiseach, Leo Varadkar, they welcomed the tone set in Florence and the impact that was having on moving negotiations forward.

Preparing for life outside the EU is also about the legislative steps we take. Our EU withdrawal Bill will shortly enter Committee stage, carrying over EU rules and regulations into our domestic law from the moment we leave the EU. Today, we are publishing two White Papers on trade and customs, which pave the way for legislation to allow the UK to operate as an independent trading nation and to create an innovative customs system that will help us to achieve the greatest possible tariff and barrier-free trade as we leave the EU. While I believe it is profoundly in all our interests for the negotiations to succeed, it is also our responsibility as a Government to prepare for every eventuality—so that is exactly what we are doing. The White Papers also support that work, including setting out steps to minimise disruption for business and travellers.

A new, deep and special partnership between a sovereign United Kingdom and a strong and successful European Union is our ambition, and our offer to our European friends. Achieving that partnership will require leadership and flexibility, not just from us but from our friends, the 27 nations of the EU. As we look forward to the next stage, the ball is in their court—but I am optimistic that it will receive a positive response, because we are seeking the best possible deal, not just for us but for our European friends too. While of course progress will not always be smooth, by approaching the negotiations in a constructive way, in a spirit of friendship and co-operation and with our sights set firmly on the future, I believe we can prove the doomsayers wrong and seize the opportunities of this defining moment in the history of our nation.

A lot of the day-to-day coverage is about process, but this, on the other hand, is vitally important. I am determined to deliver what the British people voted for—and to get it right. That is my duty as Prime Minister, it is our duty as a Government and it is what we will do. I commend this Statement to the House”.

My Lords, that concludes the Statement.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Newby (LD)]

My Lords, since our debate in September on the Government’s so-called position papers, there have been three developments. First, we had the Florence speech, of which this Statement is a précis. Secondly, we had the Prime Minister’s conference speech, which was noticeable for the fact that less than 5% of it was devoted to the most important issue facing the country; namely, Brexit. Thirdly, we have had an extraordinary degree of infighting among members of the Cabinet. Many of us have lived through periods when there has been infighting within our own parties, and we know what it means: it becomes all-consuming; it becomes completely debilitating. That is the state of the Government today.

As I said, the Statement is a précis of the speech made by the Prime Minister in Florence, which, in her own terms, was intended to move the negotiations forward. How does it fare in doing that? It starts by talking about the economic partnership, which is to be “unique and ambitious”. The rest of the section simply sets out what the Government will not do. It says nothing about what the Government intend this to be. This is the first of what one might call “the ball in whose court?” issues. The Government say, “We’re not having this; we’re not having that; we’re not having the other”. The assumption is that somebody will come up with a solution, but not them. Certainly, there is no suggestion in the Statement of what the solution might be.

Ditto the security relationship. The phrase there is that there is to be a partnership that will be,

“unprecedented in its breadth and depth, taking in cooperation on diplomacy, defence and security, and development”.

We wait to see what that might mean, but that is it. We then move on to the next phase, implementation. The Government have accepted that there has to be an implementation phase, and there is to be a two-year standstill. The Government should not take any great credit for this. It is impossible to move from our current position in the EU to a new position without an implementation or transition phase. All they have done is accept the inevitable with extraordinary bad grace.

Half way through the Statement, the Prime Minister marks her success in the Florence speech. She says that it was extremely successful and that Michel Barnier said,

“there is a ‘new dynamic’ in the negotiations”.

Well, there is a new dynamic for the Secretary of State—he is staying put. The Secretary of State for Exiting the European Union is not going to Brussels today, and has not been, so all his input, at most, this week as in the past, is going to be some kind of Panglossian statement on Thursday afternoon, when he has just whizzed in, which will be immediately contradicted, no doubt, by Michel Barnier.

The Statement then gets back to the substance, the three big issues, of which Northern Ireland is the first. The Government say that we and the EU,

“have both stated explicitly we will not accept any physical infrastructure at the border”.

The problem here is that nobody—not this Government, not the Irish Government, not the EU, not a think tank, not a lawyer, not a company—knows how you can be without the customs union without some kind of border control. There is not a soul on the planet who has come up with a viable proposal for dealing with that, so how can the Government believe that they are making progress there, or that they could get a quick outcome?

We then come to the EU budget, where we want to make a contribution,

“to cover our fair share of the costs involved”.

What does “fair” mean? It is a very interesting word, but the Government give zero indication of what it means. Does the EU have any idea what our view of fair is? If it does, it is certainly something that has not slipped out from anybody in Brussels or in this Government.

We now come to legislation and the two White Papers that have been published today. I have not had a chance to look at them, but I have just one question for the noble Baroness. On customs, we are about to create “an innovative customs system”. It sounds great, but is she aware that, as we speak, HMRC is in the process of reducing regional and local offices so that the ports of East Anglia, Harwich and Felixstowe, are about to be managed from Stratford, in east London? I accept that this is, indeed, innovative, but it does not fill me with any confidence that the Government have even the vaguest idea how they are going to implement a new customs regime.

Finally, we come to the conclusion, which is that, as we look to the next stage,

“the ball is in their court. But I am optimistic it”—

I do not know whether that is the ball—

“will receive a positive response”.

What is “it”? On too many issues there simply is not an “it”: there are simply vacuous statements and pious exhortations. With parliamentary Liberal Democrat colleagues I spent a couple of days in Brussels during the recent Recess attempting to find out what was really happening in the negotiations. We met representatives from the Council and UKREP, other permanent representatives, MEPs and many others. Everybody, with the inevitable exception of UKREP, was at a loss as to what the UK was really after. It was not that they were objecting to what we were after; they simply had no clue. There was no beef, as they saw it, in the negotiations. Today’s Statement, I am afraid, suggests that on current trends they are likely to be kept waiting for this beef for quite a long time.

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord and the noble Baroness for their comments, as ever. I shall address some of the issues they raised. I know very well the interest of the noble Baroness in the area of security—she has held me to the fire over it a number of times—and the noble Lord, Lord Newby, raised the same issue. I stress again that the UK is unconditionally committed to maintaining Europe’s security and we will continue to offer aid and assistance to EU member states that are the victims of armed aggression, terrorism or natural or manmade disasters. Indeed, the European Council’s negotiating guidelines identify the importance of partnerships against crime and terrorism and it is clearly to the benefit of both sides to make sure that this new partnership is comprehensive and effective. I know that this will not satisfy the noble Baroness, but I stress that there is currently no pre-existing model of co-operation between the EU and third countries that replicates the full scale or depth of collaboration that currently exists between the EU and the UK in this area, which is why we want to design new arrangements that go well beyond any existing arrangements the EU has in this area and to draw on legal models the EU has previously used to structure co-operation with external partners in other fields, such as trade.

I apologise for the small number of copies of the customs White Paper. I agree that 10 is not enough and I have been assured that more are being produced and will be available shortly. I will look into the issue raised by the noble Baroness, of which I was not aware before she mentioned it.

On the implementation period, the Cabinet is united behind the vision the PM set out in Florence about a strictly time-limited implementation period based on the existing structure of EU rules and regulations during which the UK and EU would continue to have access to one another’s markets on current terms. I welcome the comments of the noble Baroness that this is, indeed, a step forward.

On citizens’ rights, we have been very clear that we want this issue resolved. The Statement made it very clear that we recognise the contribution EU citizens make and we want them to stay. As I said, and as the Statement made clear, in Florence the PM gave further commitments that the rights of EU citizens in the UK and UK citizens in the EU will not diverge over time, committing to incorporate our agreement on citizens’ rights fully into UK law and making sure that UK courts can refer directly to it. As for EU citizens living in the UK, where there is uncertainty around underlying EU law we have said we want the UK courts to be able to take into account the judgments of the European Court of Justice. We will be working hard to get an agreement. I am sure that the noble Baroness will accept that I cannot prejudge or guess the outcome of the current round of negotiations, but I reiterate the importance we place on achieving an agreement in this area as we know how important it is.

On the financial settlement, the basis of our negotiations in this round is clear. We have said that we do not want our partners to fear that they will need to pay more or receive less over the remainder of the current budget plan as a result of our decision to leave, that we will honour commitments we have made during the period of our membership and that we will make an ongoing contribution to cover our fair share of the costs involved. Again, I cannot prejudge or guess the outcome of the current round of negotiations, but we are obviously aware that this is an important issue. I fear that I am also unable to provide the noble Baroness with any further information about the Prime Minister’s interaction with the European Parliament, but if I am able to do so at a future point, I will, of course, do so.

The noble Lord and the noble Baroness raised the issue of Northern Ireland. It is important that both the UK and the EU have explicitly stated that we will not accept any physical infrastructure at the border; that means we are working from a common ground to achieve an outcome that we understand is extremely important to all of us. The noble Lord, Lord Newby, asked about customs. The White Paper sets out that we will be guided by what delivers the greatest economic advantage to the UK and three strategic outcomes in terms of our future customs: ensuring that UK/EU trade is as frictionless as possible; avoiding a hard border between Ireland and Northern Ireland; and establishing an independent international trade policy. I say to the noble Lord that HMRC operates one of the most efficient customs regimes in the world and we already have highly efficient processes for freight arriving from the rest of the world.

[Lord Tebbit (Con)]

Perhaps I might raise a couple of points with my noble friend. First, can she tell me whether we have yet valued our share of the buildings occupied by the European Union and its agencies? Have the EU authorities yet proposed how that value in those buildings will be paid back to us following Brexit?

Secondly, on the legal rights of European Union citizens here and UK citizens in the EU, can my noble friend say how many UK citizens are currently imprisoned or detained in the European Union without trial or charge, and how many EU citizens are similarly detained here in prison without trial or charge? I fancy the numbers will tell us something about the legal rights of citizens, both here and on the continent. Lastly, does my noble friend not agree that the simple and short way to solve the dilemmas around the Irish frontier with Northern Ireland would be for the Irish Republic to look after the best interests of its citizens by leaving the EU?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

I would not dream of telling the people of Ireland what to do. On my noble friend’s question about prison numbers, I am afraid I do not have those figures to hand but I am happy to see whether they are available and I will write to him. In relation to the financial settlement, as he will be well aware, a lot of work has been done across the piece looking at the contributions that we have made and the settlement that we may come to. As I said, we have set out that we do not want our partners to fear that they will need to pay more or receive less over the remainder of the current budget plan. Of course, all these issues will be discussed in detail during the negotiations.

[Lord Davies of Stamford (Lab)]

The Government remain in complete denial about the very considerable costs of leaving the single market and, equally, about the quite significant costs of leaving the customs union. There is nothing at all about costs in either of the White Papers. If the Leader looks at pages 24 and 25 of the Customs Bill White Paper, she will see a number of things referred to which represent considerable costs to traders. There is a suggestion that traders will need new intermediaries and forwarding agents, which they did not previously utilise. It is suggested that they will need to introduce new IT systems and spend money on consultants. Have the Government made any estimate of what the cost will be to traders in this country from the restrictions that they are intending to impose when we leave the customs union? It is usually considered a good sign of honest and competent governance or administration, in the private sector or the public sector, not to commit to go into any venture without having some idea of what the cost is. The Government have not told us the cost of this gratuitous attempt to pull us out of the single market and the customs union.

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

As the noble Lord himself said, we have published two White Papers today, setting out our objectives for both the new customs arrangements and our future trade policy. Of course, we have a continuing dialogue with businesses involved in this and we will make sure that their voices are heard and any issues that they have are reflected in the work we do. But that is the reason we have published a White Paper, to make sure that that discussion is had.

[Baroness Ludford (LD)]

My Lords, perhaps the Leader of the House could help me understand. There appears to be a contradiction between pages 1 and 3 of the Statement. On page 1 there is an insistence that,

“when we leave the European Union we will no longer be members of its single market or its customs union”;

then on page 3 it is asserted that the framework for the transition or implementation period would be,

“the existing structure of EU rules and regulations”.

That surely must mean the single market and the customs union. So how are we going to leave the single market and the customs union and stay in them in the transition period? I would welcome enlightenment.

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

We will be leaving the EU and its institutions in March 2019 but the fact is, at that point neither the UK nor the EU will be in a position to implement smoothly many of the detailed arrangements that will underpin this relationship. We want a strictly time-limited implementation period based on the existing structure of EU rules and regulations, during which the UK and EU would continue to have access to one another’s markets on current terms and the UK would take part in existing security measures. Because we want our departure to be as smooth as possible, it does not make sense to make people and businesses plan for two sets of changes in the relationship between the UK and the EU, and we should concentrate all our negotiating time on what matters: the long-term future relationship.

[Lord Forsyth of Drumlean (Con)]

My Lords, does my noble friend accept the view that the Prime Minister has taken an entirely consistent and reasonable line on these matters? The Leader of the Opposition talked about a feeling of déjà vu—not something we would get from the Opposition’s position, which varies from week to week. That consistency is clearly important but I ask my noble friend: how much patience does the Prime Minister have? At what point do we say, “Enough is enough” to this intransigence that we are seeing? What has happened to the duty of sincere co-operation which is part of the acquis and the requirement in the treaties? At what point are we actually going to say that these people are deliberately obfuscating and creating difficulties by refusing to enter into the wider negotiations and actually get on with preparing what is in the best interests of our country in the longer term?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

I entirely agree with my noble friend about the consistency of the Prime Minister’s position. In fact, we have been putting a lot of information out to the public. We have published seven Brexit position papers, seven future partnership papers and four White Papers, including the two today, and we have set out a clear vision. We want to see progress and we are hoping, as Michel Barnier said, that we will see a “new dynamic” in the negotiations. Inevitably, leaving is a difficult process but we believe, on both sides, that it is in all our interests for the negotiations to succeed and we will continue to work on them in a spirit of good will. Having said that, we also have a duty to plan for the alternative, which we are doing, because that is what any responsible Government would do, but I reiterate that we truly believe that we will come to a deal which will be best for both of us.

[Lord Wigley (PC)]

My Lords, if I understood the noble Baroness correctly, in quoting the Prime Minister she said that the Government are planning for “every eventuality”. That being so, can she confirm that the Government are indeed planning for an exit from the European Union without any agreement? If that appears to be the position in January 2019, is that not the time when the people should be asked again whether they want to leave on those terms?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

I am afraid that I hold a different view from many noble Lords in this House but, as I have said, we are confident of getting a good deal. But, yes, as I just said, we are planning for an eventuality where that does not happen, because that is what any responsible Government should and would do.

[Lord Tugendhat (Con)]

My Lords, I agree with my noble friend Lord Forsyth that the Prime Minister has been consistent in her approach and I commend it. But is she aware that there are a large number of people in this country, and I count myself among them, who worry that perhaps the biggest obstacle to achieving a satisfactory outcome to these negotiations are the divisions that are being displayed on our own side? The more divided we appear, the greater the disadvantage we find ourselves at in Brussels. We are up against very experienced and tough negotiators and when they see that we are divided, they will take advantage of that. If the Prime Minister’s very sensible initiatives are to bear fruit, it is essential that she is able to enjoy the unity of purpose of her own Cabinet colleagues.

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

I agree with my noble friend. Indeed, the Cabinet is united behind the vision in the Florence speech. There is unity in the Cabinet. We are behind the Prime Minister because we all want to see these negotiations succeed.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, I ought to be reassured by those last words but I reiterate what my noble friend Lord Tugendhat said: there is a perception that the Cabinet is divided. There has been no doubt that individual members of the Cabinet—and one in particular, who bears responsibility for this country’s foreign policy—have not been as they should have been. Either we expect him to fall into line properly—explicitly, continuously—or the Prime Minister to exercise her undoubted authority.

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

I have no doubt that the Prime Minister does and will continue to exercise her authority. I want to reassure noble Lords again: the Cabinet is united. We want to get the best possible deal for the UK and the EU, and to ensure a smooth and orderly withdrawal, and that is what we are all working towards.

[Lord Wallace of Saltaire (LD)]

My Lords, I welcome the Government’s acceptance now that there are broad security dimensions of leaving the European Union and that the European Union has always had large security elements involved with it. I recall the noble Lord, Lord Forsyth, denying that that was the case, and the leave campaign certainly did not accept it. Can the Government begin to tell us something about how they will maintain the relationship both on cross-border security and in terms of defence, foreign policy and intelligence, after we leave? Looking round the Chamber, I think there are one or two Members old enough to remember, for example, a body called the Western European Union. It existed solely to allow the United Kingdom to have conversations with the then six members of the European Community on foreign and security policy when we were otherwise outside the room. Do we imagine that we are going to try to persuade others to set up some sort of special arrangement of this sort or will we hope to maintain, for example, the current multilateral intelligence arrangements through associate membership of Europol? As the position paper on this said, these are clearly in our national interests.

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

I entirely agree with the noble Lord that this is an extremely important area. As I said, it is very encouraging that the European Council’s negotiating guidelines also identify the importance of partnerships against crime and terrorism. The specific details will obviously be for the negotiations but I say again that no pre-existing model of co-operation between the EU and third countries replicates the scale and depth of the collaboration that exists between the EU and the UK in this area. We want to maintain that, which is why we want to work towards new arrangements that go beyond any arrangements the EU has in this area at the moment.

[Baroness Smith of Newnham (LD)]

My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Forsyth, commented on the Prime Minister’s consistency in her view of what Brexit ought to look like, but at times it has looked as if the EU 27 have one position on Brexit and the UK Government have 27 positions on it. One of the issues for Monsieur Barnier is that he has been given a negotiating mandate by the EU 27 and cannot exercise flexibility, because that is not within his gift. As we look towards the next European Council meeting and beyond, what bilateral work are Her Majesty’s Government doing behind the scenes, with the ministries and Heads of Government of the other 27 member states, to look at how they could try to persuade the 27 that a different, more flexible mandate might be helpful for Monsieur Barnier going forward?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

I am sure that the noble Baroness will be aware that the Prime Minister has had regular conversations with other leaders at the events she has been to and at other stages, and that departments are of course working closely with their counterparts. We all understand that getting a good deal for both the UK and the EU is in our best interest, and that is what we are all working towards. There is a lot of engagement going on, through companies and business, on the ground to try to make sure that we can move together towards a position that we both want.

[Lord Butler of Brockwell (CB)]

My Lords, do the Government share my view that if the European negotiators persist in their refusal to discuss our future relationship, they are themselves in breach of Article 50? Would we be prepared to seek a statement to that effect, if necessary from the European Court of Justice?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

We are all hopeful that we will be able to move forward together in a constructive manner. That is certainly what we intend.

[Lord Wallace of Tankerness (LD)]

My Lords, how do the Government anticipate that the common fisheries policy will work out in relation to the United Kingdom during the transitional period?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

We are committed to leaving the common fisheries policy and developing arrangements for fishing that can create a more profitable and self-sufficient seafood sector. Taking back control of our waters means that we can decide how we allocate access to our waters and our fisheries. Any decisions about giving access to vessels from the EU and other coastal states will be a matter for negotiation.

[Lord Berkeley (Lab)]

My Lords, can the Minister explain how this taking back of our fishing policy will work? My understanding is that most of the fishing quotas that we received when the agreement was first made have been sold by the UK fishing fleet to foreign fishing companies. Perhaps she can explain how we are going to get the quotas back from those companies which, presumably, have been enjoying them for the past 20 years.

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

As I have said, policy in this area will be a matter for negotiation.

Business of the House

Baroness Evans of Bowes Park Excerpts

Thursday 7th September 2017 Lords Chamber

Moved by

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

That the debates on the motions in the names of Lord Brown of Eaton-under-Heywood and Baroness Lane-Fox of Soho set down for today shall each be limited to 2½ hours.

Motion agreed.

Crown Dependencies

Baroness Evans of Bowes Park Excerpts

Wednesday 19th July 2017 Lords Chamber

[Noble Lords]

Order!

[The Lord Privy Seal (Baroness Evans of Bowes Park) (Con)]

My Lords, if we cannot have order, we will have the Labour Front Bench.

[Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town]

Oh, I bring order to chaos! My Lords, the EU Committee has published a report on Brexit and the Crown dependencies, along with many other excellent reports, and we are still awaiting government responses to them. I am tabling lots of very serious Questions to try to get the best out of Brexit. Despite what the former Leader of the House says in HuffPost this morning, we are trying to get information. Therefore, can the Minister try to get government responses not just to these reports but to the Written Questions? Those of us who are trying to move forward seriously on this need that information.

Business of the House

Baroness Evans of Bowes Park Excerpts

Thursday 13th July 2017 Lords Chamber

Moved by

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

That Standing Order 72 (Affirmative Instruments) be dispensed with on Tuesday 18 July to enable a motion to approve the draft Justice and Security (Northern Ireland) Act 2007 (Extension of duration of non-jury trial provisions) Order 2017 to be moved, notwithstanding that no report from the Joint Committee on Statutory Instruments on the instrument has been laid before the House.

Motion agreed.

Business of the House

Baroness Evans of Bowes Park Excerpts

Thursday 13th July 2017 Lords Chamber

Moved by

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

That the debates on the motions in the names of Baroness Andrews and Lord Kennedy of Southwark set down for today shall each be limited to 2½ hours.

Motion agreed.

G20

Baroness Evans of Bowes Park Excerpts

Monday 10th July 2017 Lords Chamber

[The Lord Privy Seal (Baroness Evans of Bowes Park) (Con)]

My Lords, with the leave of the House, I will now repeat a Statement made in another place by my right honourable friend the Prime Minister. The Statement is as follows.

“Mr Speaker, I would like to make a Statement on the G20 in Hamburg. At this summit we showed how a global Britain can play a key role in shaping international responses to some of the biggest challenges of our time. On terrorism, trade, climate change, international development, migration, modern slavery and women’s economic empowerment, we made leading contributions on issues that critically affect our national interest but which can be addressed only by working together with our international partners.

On terrorism, as we have seen with the horrific attacks in Manchester and London, the nature of the threat we face is evolving and our response must evolve to meet it. The UK is leading the way. At the G7 and subsequently through a detailed action plan with President Macron, I called for industry to take responsibility to more rapidly detect and report extremist content online. The industry has now announced the launch of a global forum to do just that. We set the agenda again at this summit by calling on our G20 partners to squeeze the lifeblood out of terrorist networks by making the global financial system an entirely hostile environment for terrorists, and we secured agreements on all our proposals.

We agreed to work together to ensure that there are no safe spaces for terrorist financing by increasing capacity-building and raising standards worldwide, especially in terrorist finance hotspots. We agreed to bring industry and law enforcement together to develop new tools and technologies to better identify suspicious small flows of money being used to support low-cost terrorist attacks such as those we have seen in the UK. And just as interior Ministers are following up on the online agenda we set at the G7, so finance Ministers will follow through on these G20 commitments to cut off the funding that fuels the terrorist threat we face.

I also called for the G20 to come together to better manage the risk posed by foreign fighters as they disperse from the battlefield in Syria and Iraq, and we agreed that we would work to improve international information-sharing on the movement of individuals known to have travelled to and from Daesh territory. By working together in these ways, we can defeat this terrorist threat and ensure that our way of life will always prevail.

Turning to the global economy, we are seeing encouraging signs of recovery with the IMF forecasting that global GDP will rise by 3.5% this year, but many both here in the UK and across the G20 are simply not sharing in the benefits of that growth. So we need to build a global economy that works for everyone by ensuring that trade is not just free but also, crucially, fair for all. That means fair for all people here in the UK, which is why we are forging a modern industrial strategy that will help to bring the benefits of trade to every part of our country. It means fair terms of trade for the poorest countries, which is why we will protect their trade preferences as we leave the EU, and in time explore options to improve their trade access. It also means strengthening the international rules that make trade fair between countries. So at this summit I argued that we must reform the international trading system, especially the World Trade Organization given its central role, so that it keeps pace with developments in key sectors like digital and services, and so that it is better able to resolve disputes.

Some countries are not playing by the rules. They are not behaving responsibly and are creating risks to the global trading system. Nowhere is this more clear than in relation to the dumping of steel on global markets. The urgent need to act to remove excess capacity was recognised last year at the G20, but not enough has been done since. If we are to avoid unilateral action by nations seeking to protect themselves from unfairly priced steel, we need immediate collective action. So we agreed that the global forum established last year needs to be more effective and the pace of its work must quicken. To ensure that its work gets the necessary attention and there is senior accountability, I have pressed for relevant Ministers from around the world to meet in this forum.

The UK will play a leading role in championing all these reforms so that all citizens can share in the benefits of global growth. As we leave the European Union, we will negotiate a new, comprehensive, bold and ambitious free trade agreement with the EU, but we will also seize the exciting opportunities to strike deals with old friends and new partners. At this summit, I held a number of meetings with other world leaders, all of whom made clear their strong desire to forge ambitious new bilateral trading relationships with the UK after Brexit. This included America, Japan, China and India. This morning I welcomed Australian Prime Minister Turnbull to Downing Street, where he also reiterated his desire for a bold new trading relationship. All these discussions are a clear and powerful vote of confidence in British goods, British services, the British economy and the British people. I look forward to building on them in the months ahead.

On climate change, the UK reaffirmed its commitment to the Paris agreement, which is vital if we are to take responsibility for the world we pass on to our children and grandchildren. There is not a choice between decarbonisation and economic growth, as the UK’s own experience shows—we have reduced our emissions by around 40% in the last 16 years but grown our GDP by almost two-thirds. So I and my counterparts at the G20 are dismayed at America’s withdrawal from this agreement. I spoke personally to President Trump to encourage him to rejoin the Paris agreement and I continue to hope that is exactly what he will do.

On international development, we reaffirmed our commitment to spend 0.7% of gross national income on development assistance and we set out plans for a new long-term approach to reduce Africa’s reliance on aid. This includes focusing on supporting African aspirations for trade and growth, creating millions of new jobs and harnessing the power of capital markets to generate trillions of new investment. We welcomed Germany’s new Compact with Africa, which reflects these principles.

On migration, I expressed the UK’s continued support for the scale of the challenge facing Italy and agreed with Prime Minister Gentiloni that a UK expert Home Office and DfID delegation will travel out to Italy to see how we can help further. This is further evidence that, while we are leaving the European Union, as a global Britain we will continue to work closely with all our European partners. The G20 also agreed to use the upcoming negotiations on the UN global compacts to seek the comprehensive approach that the UK has been arguing for. This includes ensuring refugees claim asylum in the first safe country they reach; improving the way we distinguish between refugees and economic migrants; and developing a better overall approach to managing economic migration. It also includes providing humanitarian and development assistance to refugees in their home region. At this summit, the UK committed £55 million to support the Government of Tanzania in managing their refugee and migrant populations, and to support the further integration of new naturalised Burundian refugees.

Turning to modern slavery, it is hard to comprehend that in today’s world innocent and vulnerable men, women and children are being enslaved, forced into hard labour, raped, beaten and passed from abuser to abuser for profit. We cannot and will not ignore this dark and barbaric trade in human beings that is simply horrifying in its inhumanity. That is why I put this issue on the G20 agenda at my first summit a year ago, and at this summit I pushed for a global and co-ordinated approach to the complex business supply chains which can feed the demand for forced labour and child labour.

Our groundbreaking Modern Slavery Act requires companies to examine all aspects of their businesses, including their supply chains, and to publish their results. I called on my G20 partners to follow Britain’s lead. I welcomed Germany’s proposed Vision Zero Fund, to which the UK is contributing, as an important part of helping to ensure the health and safety of workers in those global supply chains.

Finally, we agreed to create better job opportunities for women, to remove the legal barriers and to end the discrimination and gender-based violence that restrict opportunities both at home and abroad. As part of this, the UK is contributing to the Women Entrepreneurs Finance Initiative, launched by the World Bank, which will provide more than $1 billion to support women in developing countries to start and grow businesses. This is not just morally right, it is economically essential. The UK will continue to play a leading role in driving forward women’s economic empowerment across the world.

Of course we did not agree on everything at this summit, in particular on climate change, but when we have such disagreements, it is only more important that we come together in forums such as the G20 to try to resolve them. As a global Britain, we will continue to work at bridging differences between nations and forging global responses to issues that are fundamental to our prosperity and security, and to that of our allies around the world. That is what we did at this summit and that is what this Government will continue to do. I commend this Statement to the House”.

My Lords, that concludes the Statement.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Newby (LD)]

My Lords, I thank the Leader of the House for repeating the Statement. “Casablanca” is also one of my favourite films. I think the line that the Prime Minister takes from it is, “Play it again”, because the use of exceptionalist phraseology is played again and again in prime ministerial responses to this kind of international gathering.

I suspect that this summit will not be remembered for any great new international agreements, for there were none. But it is possible that historians will look back on it as marking the end of US primacy in world affairs and the point at which the US accepted tacitly the Russian strategy of regional hegemony, to which there was no opposition, as far as one could see, in the long meeting between President Trump and President Putin. I suspect that at the end of those two hours it was President Putin who was smiling behind his hand, rather than his opposite number. The change in the balance of power in the world was evidenced by the summit’s communiqué, which made no attempt whatever to hide the differences between the US and the rest of the world on climate change. I was intrigued when the Prime Minister said that she urged President Trump to rejoin the Paris agreement and that she hopes that he will do so. Has she any reason to believe that this is even a slim possibility?

Many of the issues debated at the summit were worthy and important and it is a great sign of progress that we have the 20 most important countries in the world discussing issues in a constructive manner, whether it is security, migration, modern slavery or women’s empowerment. Modest baby steps forward were taken on all those issues. However, listening to the Statement, one cannot but be struck by the lack of progress on—or even mention of—some of world’s flashpoints; for example, there is nothing about the Middle East or North Korea. Clearly, this is to be regretted.

On our own domestic agenda, the summit did discuss trade, where again the US is in danger of taking a unilateral line which would weaken the world trading system. But clearly the key trade issues for the UK relate to Brexit. The Prime Minister met the leaders of America, Japan, China and India, all of whom, we are told, expressed an interest in having new bilateral trading relationships with Britain post-Brexit. The situation in respect of Japan is particularly concerning. Japan has just signed a deal with the EU which covers 19% of all world trade. It took four years to negotiate and along with the traditional tariff reductions, there are major new levels of co-operation on standards, regulation and opening up public procurement markets. What is rather chilling is the thought expressed by a leading commentator in today’s papers that unless the UK replicates the EU’s trade agreement with Japan, Japan will have a closer trading relationship with the EU than we will. Even if we replicate it, there is a major challenge to the British motor industry if we are not inside the customs union. First, Japanese direct investment is likely to go to the EU, and, secondly, rules of origin mean that unless 50% of a product is made in the country, it does not qualify for free entry into the other country. How many motor cars made in the UK have 50% of their parts made in the UK? Very few. I wonder how the Government hope and expect to be able to, at worst, replicate the trade agreement now entered into or coming into force between Japan and the EU.

As far as America is concerned, the Prime Minister seems to take President Trump at his word when he says we are going to have a terrific, new, quick trade agreement. She is the only person in the world to do so. The rest of the world just does not think it is doable. Even if were doable, it is very noticeable that the EEF has said today that the damage caused by the kind of Brexit being pursued by the Government would not be made up any potential trade deal with the US. Equally, this very weekend we had the head of the German industrial federation saying that, as far as he and Germany are concerned, trade with Britain will be second to protecting the single market and the four freedoms. So how do the Government think they are going to be able to protect trade in a situation where they are not prepared to contemplate the single market or the customs union at a time when, as the ONS pointed out this very day, some 2 million people working in Britain today owe their jobs to direct investment from the EU? That investment is jeopardised by the Government’s stance.

This was an eminently forgettable summit for the UK. The major challenges to our well-being, whether in terms of the economy, security or influence, stem from Brexit, and here the Prime Minister certainly has a lot of work to do.

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

I am grateful to the noble Baroness and the noble Lord for their comments. As the Statement set out, this summit saw Britain leading the way on a number of complex and challenging issues and also showed that there is a shared desire to build and maintain strong relationships. Leaders from around the world made clear their strong desire to forge lasting relationships with the UK after our exit from the European Union.

The noble Baroness and the noble Lord mentioned the possible trade deal with the United States. Discussions are at a very early stage, but we are optimistic about a deal that can be struck. The International Trade Secretary was in the USA a week or so ago talking to the American Trade Minister about future trade opportunities. The Cabinet Secretary has set up a working group with Wilbur Ross, the US Trade Secretary, to discuss how we can start setting out mutually beneficial parameters for a trade deal but, as noble Lords will be aware, there is a legal limit to how much can be done before we leave the EU. However, we are starting early and positive discussions.

The noble Baroness and the noble Lord also asked about Japan. The Prime Minister welcomed the announcement of the agreement in principle between Japan and the EU in relation to a free trade agreement. As we leave the EU, we are seeking to ensure continuity in our trading relationships. The EU/Japan deal could be a good starting point for that.

The noble Baroness asked about steel. Certainly, the Government recognise that dumped, or subsidised, steel is a significant global issue. We are disappointed that not all countries have fully engaged with the global forum since it was set up last year. The Prime Minister raised this issue directly with President Xi in her bilateral with him. We have also invited the UK steel sector to use the opportunity of a sector deal through our industrial strategy to set out its plans to capture future opportunities and long-term growth. We certainly value the sector and have provided support to it. We have made sure that social and economic factors can be taken into account for public sector steel procurement. We have successfully pressed for the introduction of trade defence measures to protect UK steel producers from unfair steel dumping, and we continue to compensate for the costs of renewable polices.

The noble Baroness asked about counterterrorism. As I have said many times at this Dispatch Box, we want to continue to work closely with all our international partners, and have shown the impact we have had. The actions following the G7 Statement have shown that when international leaders put their collective weight behind an issue, action can be taken. We called on the private sector to step up efforts to tackle extremist content on the internet, and two weeks ago, we saw the announcement by the four major communication service providers of an industry-led global internet forum to counter terrorism. We will continue to work with our international partners in a whole array of forums to ensure that we continue to do this.

The noble Baroness asked about the review commissioned into the funding of Islamic extremist activity in the UK. The review was comprehensive and has improved our understanding of the nature, scale and sources of funding for Islamist extremism in the UK. Ministers are currently considering advice on what in the report can be published and will update Parliament in due course. In relation to the comments that President Trump made about Sadiq Khan, the Prime Minister has been very clear that she in no way supported what the President said. She made that clear and will of course continue to support the mayor in his efforts to help protect London.

The noble Lord and the noble Baroness both raised the issue of climate change. We joined many other leaders at the G20 in making it clear that the Paris agreement and the international momentum that underpins it are irreversible. The Prime Minister brought up the issue of climate change with President Trump and had many conversations with him about it over the time they were at the G20. As the noble Lord rightly said, she will continue to encourage and press him to bring the US back into the Paris agreement. We continue to hope that this will happen.

The noble Lord, Lord Newby, asked about North Korea. The Prime Minister raised that issue in her bilateral meeting with President Xi. The noble Lord also asked about trade deals. As he is well aware, we are working to negotiate a good and comprehensive free trade agreement with the EU and are confident we will get a good deal for both the UK and EU. We will talk to countries that have existing relationships and arrangements with the EU about what arrangements we can come to so we can ensure a smooth process as we leave. But we are also talking, as I have said, to countries such as America and India about what we can do in terms of improving our trade relationships and what trade agreements we can have once we leave the EU.

[Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)]

Would my noble friend accept that there is actually quite a lot to welcome in this Statement from the point of view of the United Kingdom and other countries? I was particularly pleased that the intention to reform the World Trade Organization was in the Statement—that is overdue—and our decision to help Italy face the enormous new wave of migrants and refugees, since very few other European countries seem prepared to lift a finger to help Italy at present. That is a very creditable move by the United Kingdom Government. But does she not wonder whether the USA is quite as isolated as several commentators have claimed? CO₂ emissions in the United States are dropping faster than in almost any other country, admittedly from a very high level, whereas in Germany they are rising, which needs to be taken into account before one enters into too much condemnation of President Trump on that.

Finally, neither my noble friend nor the Statement mentioned where America and Russia may just be getting to over safer zones in Syria. It looks as if there is some progress there at last, which should be welcomed. Would she also explain to the noble Lord the Leader of the Liberal Democrats that the EU-Japan trade deal is a great thing but is by no means settled yet, and that it is a bit early to start claiming triumph and glory for it?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

I thank my noble friend for covering a range of issues. We certainly called for changes to make the trading system more effective and quicker to act, and for all WTO members to take more responsibility for complying with the rules, but of course we made clear our firm commitment to free trade. The Prime Minister also discussed further aid to Italy, which is facing real problems in terms of the migrants who are coming over at the moment. We indeed welcomed the US-Russian agreement in relation to Syria: we obviously welcome any initiative that contributes to a reduction in violence in Syria and we hope that all parties will engage to this end. A genuine cessation of hostilities is fundamental to progress towards the inclusive political settlement that we will continue to work towards.

[Lord Reid of Cardowan (Lab)]

My Lords, on the much vaunted US trade deal announcement, did the Minister notice that four days ago at the G20, President Trump announced a very big, very important deal with the Russians on a joint cybersecurity unit? Did she further notice that that did not last 72 hours—it was abandoned last night? What inference does she draw regarding the reliability of such proclamations following joint photo calls and press conferences by the American President and others?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

As I made quite clear in my responses to the noble Baroness, we are at a very early stage. Working groups have been set up and discussions are going on, but we are at an early stage, and we shall continue to talk to the Americans.

[Baroness Ludford (LD)]

My Lords, the Statement omitted something that was in the G20 leaders’ declaration—nothing to do with Brexit, for once: the growing threat that antimicrobial resistance represents to public health and economic development. The leaders made various recommendations, of which an important one was a new R&D collaboration hub and examining how to give incentives to encourage new antibiotics on to the market. I declare an interest in that my husband survived—just—a very serious case of sepsis. More than 40,000 people a year in this country die of sepsis. He also chairs a London health trust which deals with TB patients. Half of TB patients with resistance are in G20 countries. What are the Government going to do to follow up on that aspect of the summit?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

The noble Baroness is absolutely right. We made clear at the summit the imperative to tackle global health threats such as antimicrobial resistance, that research funding alone will not solve the problem and that we must in parallel develop incentives for pharmaceutical companies to bring new drugs to market. The publication of the G20-commissioned report, Tackling Antimicrobial Resistance, Ensuring Sustainable R&D, means that we have a clear way forward looking to the Argentinian G20 presidency next year and beyond. We will continue to work with our international partners on that. We have also committed £50 million towards a global AMR innovation fund, which will target investment in underinvested areas of research and development.

[The Lord Bishop of Chelmsford]

My Lords I thank the noble Baroness for the Statement and the Government’s continued commitment to tackling modern-day slavery. I am particularly grateful for the commitment to cultivate a radically new global and co-ordinated approach to this problem, which traps 46 million people in conditions that deprive them of their God-given dignity. Can the Minister give an assurance that they will put the victim at the centre of this new global approach and that it will enlist the support and help of the Churches’ global networks, which are already beginning to mobilise through the Santa Marta Group and the Clewer initiative to condemn this abomination, which Pope Francis has rightly called a crime against humanity?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

I thank the right reverend Prelate. Tackling human trafficking and modern slavery remains a top priority of this Government. We are very grateful for all the work that the Church does internationally in this important area. The leaders of the G20 countries agreed with the Prime Minister that we need to take immediate and effective measures to eliminate modern slavery, child labour and forced labour from global supply chains, and we called on our G20 partners to follow our lead in working with businesses at home to ensure that they report any modern slavery in their supply chains. As the Statement made clear, this is a personal priority of the Prime Minister and one that she will continue to push among our G20 colleagues.

[Lord Adonis (Lab)]

My Lords, I ask the noble Baroness about the phrase in the Statement that we must reform the world trading system,

“so it is better able to resolve disputes”.

What proposals did Her Majesty’s Government put forward better to resolve trade disputes? Does she believe that the United Kingdom will be in a better position to advance that cause outside the European Union than inside?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

We want to champion this agenda. We called for change and will be working with colleagues in advance of a meeting later in the year to develop proposals. Good progress has been made. The trade facilitation agreement that came into force earlier this year will benefit UK exporters through its customs reforms, and could boost global trade by up to $1 trillion every year. We are clear that the WTO must remain the foundation of the global trading system, but we need to work together to improve it.

[Baroness Farrington of Ribbleton (Lab)]

My Lords, I note that the Minister has failed to answer my noble friend’s question regarding the blatant misrepresentation of Sadiq Khan by the American President. It should have been raised face to face. Does the Prime Minister want to remain in Europol and Eurojust? What conversations have there been with the nuclear and health industries about the Government’s stated position and the Prime Minister’s decision, and wanting to leave Euratom? Can I have the details please?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

The noble Baroness will be aware that Euratom and the EU share a common institutional framework which make them uniquely legally joined. So, when we gave formal notification of our intention to leave the EU, we also started a process for leaving Euratom, and the exact future relationship will be subject to negotiations with our EU partners. Of course, we want to maintain the relationship, and indeed, a number of other non-EU countries do so, and we will be working to achieve that. I responded in relation to Sadiq Khan and said that the Prime Minister will continue to support him; I can go no further nor give more information. On the noble Baroness’s other point, I will need to write to her.

Business of the House

Baroness Evans of Bowes Park Excerpts

Thursday 6th July 2017 Lords Chamber

Moved by

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

That, in the event of the Supply and Appropriation (Main Estimates) Bill being brought from the Commons and read a first time, Standing Order 46 (No two stages of a Bill to be taken on one day) be dispensed with on Tuesday 11 July to allow the Bill to be taken through its remaining stages that day.

Motion agreed.