Grenfell Response

Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth Excerpts

Monday 10th June 2019 Lords Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Ministry of Housing, Communities and Local Government and Wales Office (Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth) (Con)]

My Lords, with the permission of the House, I shall repeat a Statement made in another place by the Secretary of State for Housing, Communities and Local Government. The Statement is as follows:

“Mr Speaker, I wish to make a Statement on the Government’s response to the Grenfell Tower fire. I am also writing to the chair of the Select Committee to provide a formal report on progress, a copy of which will be placed in the Library of the House. But before I begin, I would like to take a moment to thank all those who responded to the serious fire in Barking, east London, yesterday afternoon. The London Borough of Barking and Dagenham provided emergency accommodation for those residents who needed it, and we will continue to work with the council to ensure that residents receive the support they need at this most difficult time. While the cause of the fire has yet to be confirmed, I have asked the Building Research Establishment to investigate the fire, working with the London Fire Brigade. I have also asked the independent expert panel on wider fire safety issues to provide urgent advice to the Government. We will take account of the findings of the investigation and the advice of the panel in our further work on reviewing the fire safety guidance. The local authority and the building owners are reviewing fire safety for the rest of the development, and I remain in close contact with the London Fire Brigade. I will also be visiting the community later today.

As we mark two years since the devastating events of 14 June 2017, I know the whole House will join me in remembrance and solidarity with the people of north Kensington. I want them to know that this House is behind them in honouring the loved ones they lost, in helping those left behind to heal and rebuild their lives, and in our determination to ensure that nothing like this can ever happen again.

This unprecedented disaster has been met with an unprecedented response across government, our public services, local government and the voluntary sector. I am hugely thankful to everyone involved, especially our emergency services and the public and voluntary sectors. In total, we have spent over £46 million of national government funds and committed a further £55 million to help meet rehousing costs, reimburse the Royal Borough of Kensington and Chelsea for Grenfell site management costs, deliver new health and well-being services, and deliver improvements to the Lancaster West Estate. More than £27.8 million of the nearly £29 million raised through the generosity of the British public has also now been distributed, thanks to the Charity Commission. Those affected are also getting vital support from the NHS, with a further £50 million committed over the next five years to addressing long-term physical and mental health needs. To date, nearly 8,000 health screenings have been completed, including for more than 900 children, with over 2,700 individuals receiving or having received treatment for trauma, including over 600 children.

We are determined to make sure that those affected remain at the heart of the response to this tragedy. That is why my right honourable friend the Member for Ruislip, Northwood and Pinner continues to meet families regularly in his role as the Grenfell Victims’ Minister. It is why the Prime Minister recently appointed two new panel members for phase two of the Grenfell Tower public inquiry, to make sure it has the necessary diversity of skills and experience. And it is why the community will be pivotal to decisions about the long-term future of the site as the Government take ownership of this to ensure sensitivities are respected, and they are fully engaged in additional environmental checks after concerns were raised.

Testing has started to assess any risks to health. We will ensure that all appropriate action is taken. One of our biggest priorities has been rehousing the 201 households who lost their homes, with the Royal Borough of Kensington and Chelsea acquiring over 300 homes to meet their needs and provide choice. I am pleased that all 201 households have accepted permanent or temporary homes, with 184 households in permanent accommodation and 14 in good-quality temporary homes. This represents significant progress since last year, but I am concerned that three households remain in emergency accommodation, including one in a hotel. I have asked the Independent Grenfell Recovery Taskforce, which was set up to ensure that the Royal Borough of Kensington and Chelsea better supports residents and rebuilds trust, to look into this. I have been assured that the council is taking an appropriate and sensitive approach, given the complex needs of these households, to find the right long-term solution for each of them.

A new home is undoubtedly an important step on the road to recovery, and it is vital that this is reinforced by long-term support such as the recovery services co-designed by the council in partnership with the community and local health partners. It is essential that we build on this collaboration, with the council listening and the community being heard. That is fundamental to laying the foundations for a new and stronger partnership between residents and those who serve them.

Central to this relationship, and indeed to so much of the work flowing from the fire, is the need to rebuild trust. Above all, this means ensuring that people are safe, and feel safe, in their homes. With that in mind, Members will be aware that we launched a consultation last week on proposals to implement meaningful reform to our building and fire safety regulatory systems following the independent review led by Dame Judith Hackitt. It will provide a clear focus on responsibility and accountability and give residents a stronger voice to achieve the enduring change that is needed. Alongside this, the Government have also launched a call for evidence on the fire safety order to determine what changes may be required to strengthen it. This follows the recent launch of a new fund to expedite remediation of buildings with unsafe ACM cladding in the private sector and protect leaseholders, adding up to a £600 million commitment from the Government to make buildings in both the private and social sectors safe.

This builds on other significant measures we have undertaken, such as a ban on combustible cladding, a review of the building regulations fire safety guidance—Approved Document B—and tests on non-ACM materials not only to keep people safe now but also to fundamentally transform the way we build in the future, through legislation, yes, but more crucially through a change in culture. But I know that we must continue to challenge on what more needs to be done.

People living in buildings like Grenfell Tower need to trust that there can be no repeat of what happened that night, to trust that the state understands their lives and is working for them. That is why the social housing Green Paper, published last year, and the new deal it sets out for people living in social housing matter so much. My thanks go to the many residents who engaged with us on this for their invaluable contribution. We are assessing the consultation responses and finalising our response. The deal it proposes aims to rebalance the relationship between residents and landlords, address stigma and ensure that homes are safe and decent. In addition to our drive, backed by billions, to boost the supply of social housing, it is a deal that promises to renew our commitment to people in social housing, ensuring that everyone, no matter where they live, has the security, dignity and opportunities they need to build a better life.

This, ultimately, is what we hope for for the bereaved and survivors and for the strong, proud people of north Kensington, who have shown us the power of community. They, and we, will never, ever forget those who died in the most horrific circumstances.

I know that the pain of that loss continues as they wait for answers and to see justice done as the police investigation and public inquiry continue their important work. But they should know that they are not alone. The Government, this House and, indeed, our whole country will always have a stake in the future of Grenfell. I have every faith that this remarkable community, working in partnership, will move forward, rebuild and emerge even stronger. I commend this Statement to the House”.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Stunell (LD)]

My Lords, I associate myself with the words of the noble Lord, Lord Kennedy, and with the sentiments of the Statement in what it has to say about both the Barking fire and the role of the voluntary and emergency services at Grenfell. I should perhaps remind the House that, during the coalition Government, I had some responsibility for building regulation policy. I welcome in particular the referral of the Barking fire to the independent expert panel. It seems to me that, if there are further lessons to learn, we need to learn them quickly and make sure that the appropriate action is put in place promptly.

We should very much recognise the fantastic work done by voluntary and community groups in the two years since the fire. It has been quite outstanding; they have brought the community together, and we should celebrate that amid all the tragedy of the fire itself.

I welcome the information in the Statement on rehousing residents. There is a little more to do, but it is good to know that progress is being made. I also welcome the progress on meeting the physical and mental health needs of residents, and carrying out proper testing of potential toxicity around the site.

I include in my congratulations the often maligned British public and their £29 million of charitable giving to relieve hardship, and the stout work done in distributing the funds appropriately in the area.

However, I have some questions for the Minister. Is he aware of the Building magazine survey of building contractors, published last week, which shows that very few firms have yet taken any serious steps to change their supervision and inspection regimes on projects, or their monitoring and recording procedures on the buildings they put up? The change of culture referred to in the Statement does not seem to be happening. The recommendations of Dame Judith Hackitt’s inquiry, as far as they are applicable to the industry, seem to have made no practical difference, despite the urgency of action. It is not really surprising that Dame Judith herself has publicly expressed concern that her report has now gone into the “too difficult” box.

Given that, does last week’s consultation have a proper timeline? Some might say that it is not really in accordance with the Minister’s often expressed views that we should do things “at pace” in relation to this tragedy. We are now two years on, and the consultation and a somewhat minimalist pilot scheme have just been launched. Can the Minister give us some assurance on, or timeline for, when legislation and statutory instruments will be in front of Parliament to change the regulations now in force and the culture of the construction industry? As I am sure the Minister is absolutely committed to do, that is all designed to ensure that we never have another Grenfell Tower tragedy.

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, I thank the noble Lords, Lord Kennedy and Lord Stunell, for the very appropriate way in which they addressed these issues, their reasonable response and the support that they indicated for public servants, who really have committed to this work, not just on Grenfell but more recently in Barking. Too often, we do not underline how much we owe our public sector, particularly the emergency services. I also thank the noble Lord, Lord Stunell, for what he said about the generosity of the British public and the £29 million in donations. If you really want to understand a country, you look at its voluntary sector and how people are supporting it through charitable donations—it speaks volumes. Also, as the noble Lord, Lord Kennedy, said, more than anything else, the dignity and humility of the victims of Grenfell—the survivors—in how they have conducted themselves throughout what must have been an extremely difficult day in the anniversary week of Grenfell is certainly worth mentioning.

I shall try to cover the questions raised and, as the noble Lord, Lord Kennedy, kindly suggested, pick up any other points in a letter which I will copy to the Library. However, first, I will give an update on the position in De Pass Gardens in Barking. My right honourable friend the Secretary of State is there this afternoon to thank the emergency services, to see first-hand what happened and to understand it. Clearly an investigation is going on and I thank the noble Lord, Lord Stunell, for what he said, based on his experience as a Minister, about the appropriate response of that investigation going on with expert assistance. Thank God no one was seriously injured. Two people suffered from smoke inhalation but there were no serious injuries.

The Borough of Barking and Dagenham has stepped forward to assist with accommodation. Clearly, people there have lost their property, their homes and their memories. It is a serious situation but everything is being done that may be done to assist there.

I pay tribute to the firefighters, the first of whom were on the scene in less than six minutes from the time the first 999 call was received. We should note that, and applaud and thank them for it. It clearly helped in an awful situation and we will no doubt come to that again.

The noble Lord, Lord Kennedy, asked about the Secretary of State engaging with families and specifically referred to Elizabeth Campbell and Barry Quirk. The last time he saw them in a formal setting was on 21 May at a ministerial recovery group, which happen fairly frequently. As the noble Lord rightly acknowledged, the Secretary of State met with Grenfell United earlier today at the reception and the Housing Minister, the honourable Member for North West Hampshire, met Grenfell United last Monday—he tends to engage more frequently than the Secretary of State—and the Victims Minister also holds regular casework surgeries as appropriate.

The noble Lord, Lord Kennedy, asked about speed. He knows that I tend to get as exasperated as he does, understandably, about what sometimes seems slow progress. It is perhaps like the fire engines getting there yesterday—I am sure that would have seemed much longer than six minutes to the people suffering on the ground in the fire. There is obviously a process to go through in relation to the Hackitt review.

We are making progress with document B independently of the consultation on the need for appropriate legislation. As I have always said, there is a need to proceed at pace. The Secretary of State is committed to appropriate legislation but we need consultation with people affected to see exactly what form the legislation should take. That is going forward. It is not in the “too difficult” box. I did not have the opportunity to see the survey of building contractors that the noble Lord, Lord Stunell, referred to, but it underlines the need to take action and the appropriate change to the law is going forward. We owe it to all the people affected by the dreadful event of two years ago to ensure that we get it right.

Any points I have missed I will pick up by letter.

[Baroness Warwick of Undercliffe (Lab)]

My Lords, I attended the reception hosted by the Speaker in another place for Grenfell United this lunchtime. It was humbling to hear again the testimony of those affected by the disaster. I commend Grenfell United for the generosity of spirit it has shown in campaigning for building safety measures to ensure the safety of all residents, right across the country, now and in the future.

However, it was clearly frustrated and angry that, even after two years, thousands of people are still living in dangerous buildings and that not enough action has been taken to put things right. In the Statement, the Secretary of State acknowledged that there is a lot more to be done and, as chair of the National Housing Federation—which I declare—I know that housing associations are working hard to ensure that their buildings are as safe as possible. How does the Minister intend to engage with Grenfell United in responding to the range of issues in its campaign for safer buildings?

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness for her comments, with which I associate myself. I too was at the Speaker’s reception earlier, as I was last year, and it is humbling to see the dignity and humility of people who have lost so much and to appreciate that they are focused on learning the lessons and how we can seek to ensure that this should never happen again. We must do that and we must learn from that.

There was a great deal of literature at the meeting but I have not yet had the opportunity to look at it, but I will discuss it with the Minister of State and the Housing Minister and decide what we should do in relation to the valid points brought forward. It is a great opportunity to engage with Grenfell United on the basis of the suggestions it has put forward, on how we approach dangerous buildings and what we do in relation to them.

The noble Baroness did not ask specifically about the removal of cladding but we are now in a position in the social sector where 87% of buildings have had work either begun or completed in relation to what is necessary for the removal of cladding; 13% have a plan in place but the work has not yet started. As to the 175 buildings in the private sector—I will correct the number if I have got it wrong—the £200 million we have committed has galvanised this. We are beginning to see success there, although it is slower. I will give the precise figures in a write-round letter so that everyone has them to look at.

[The Lord Bishop of Coventry]

My Lords, I echo the praise that has already been given to the emergency services following both Barking and the Grenfell disaster. I welcome the Statement’s recognition of the power of community and its commitment to a new and stronger partnership between residents and those who serve them, for trust to rebuilt and, in particular, for the council to listen and the community to be heard.

The Minister will be aware of the recent report of the Bishop of Kensington, one of the faith leaders alluded to by the noble Lord, Lord Kennedy. Will the Government encourage serious engagement with this thoughtful report arising out of his conversations with local residents, his identification of their sense of loss of agency and his inspiring call for a renewal of a properly local democratic culture? Does the Minister agree that this careful report shows how Grenfell has much to teach government and society as a whole about the reimagination of welfare, housing and community life—the kind of reimagination that will be necessary to effect the long-term social changes that Grenfell deserves as its legacy?

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, I thank the right reverend Prelate for that contribution. I readily acknowledge the importance of faith institutions, both generally and specifically in relation to Grenfell, and the contribution of the Bishop of Kensington. I also reference the work done by Muslim Aid and the local mosque, which was also significant. Very often faith institutions are the most trusted and the most responsive. They are there on the spot, they are local, and they have been significant players, if I can use an inappropriate phrase, in relation to what is right about the response in Grenfell.

As the right reverend Prelate rightly said, the community is central to this and the planning to ensure that this kind of situation does not happen again has been greatly assisted by the faith organisations. We want to study what the Bishop of Kensington has put in his report and I know that the Minister for Housing and the Minister for Grenfell recovery will be engaged in that. He is right about the importance of democratic culture and community. It is a good way of putting it.

[Baroness Pinnock (LD)]

I thank the Minister for repeating the Statement and associate myself with the remarks made about the community response and the emergency services, which did a wonderful job in supporting that community and saving lives. I draw the attention of the House to my interests in local government as set out in the register. The Minister will perhaps not be surprised if I share my utter frustration at the lack of speed with which action is being taken to put right the wrongs that led to that awful fire. In May 2018 Dame Judith Hackitt’s report Building a Safer Future was published. The Government swiftly and rightly accepted its recommendations. That was excellent. At the end of 2018 the Government published their implementation plan for the Hackitt report, but sadly no timetable was attached to it. Dame Judith had written:

“There is no reason to wait for legal change to start the process of behaviour change … A sense of urgency and commitment from everyone is needed”.


Where is it? Why have changes not been made? Why can we not get going with what everyone accepts is the right thing to do, making changes to prevent future disasters of the sort that occurred at Grenfell and giving people confidence that they are living in secure and safe homes? Will the Minister give us a sense of urgency in his response?

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness for her remarks. To reassure her, there are two points to be made. First, we are having a consultation on Dame Judith Hackitt’s report and the framework changes that are necessary. I think consultation is right before one proceeds with legislation in that situation. However, that has not stopped us doing things in relation to urgent action. As the noble Baroness knows, we have also banned combustible ACM cladding on buildings. The Secretary of State has acted decisively with progressing Approved Document B, which should be ready at the end of July. Behaviour change has been highlighted and has therefore started, but I accept that there is more to be done. I, too, sometimes get frustrated and wish that we could do it more quickly, but it would be wrong and inappropriate to suggest that we have not done some very important things. Indeed, we have ensured that ACM cladding is coming off social and private-sector blocks. That has meant the commitment of some considerable amount of public money, but it is the right thing to do.

[Lord Whitty (Lab)]

I thank the Minister for repeating the Statement and I agree with many—all, I think—of the points that have been made, but two underlying issues do not seem to have been addressed. The first is the clear failure of the authorities in this instance—it appears also to be true of Barking—to listen to the concerns of residents. In Grenfell, there were anxieties about not only the cladding but the lack of containment between flats, which used to be a common feature of most council blocks, the removal of the piping in the ducts, the lack of a sprinkler system and the lack of an effective alarm system. All those things had been raised months and years before the tragedy happened by the people who lived there, and by and large they were ignored. From the instant reports from Barking, it sounds as though a very similar situation arose there. It is part of what is often a failure of the authorities to recognise the expertise of the people who live in these premises and understand the situation. Unless there is a more responsive attitude by the authorities, regrettably, we will see more of these tragedies. Whatever we do to change the law and the regulations, effectively the best policers of the situations in those buildings will be the residents themselves, and we need to listen to them.

The second aspect, which would reinforce that, is resources. It is not just a question of the regulations. We know that in most local authorities building regulation has become a Cinderella service, and quite frequently seriously understaffed. Unless we—from the Government through to local authorities—put more people into building regulation, planning departments and the Health and Safety Executive, the buildings we put up now will not be fit for purpose, in the same way that Grenfell eventually and tragically turned out to be not fit for purpose. Those two features also need to be addressed as part of the culture or agency for the people who live there, to whom the right reverend Prelate referred, as a comprehensive and holistic solution to these issues.

Finally, it is still not comprehensible to those who were living in Kensington and know the situation that there have been no prosecutions. Until that is remedied, this tragic episode cannot be truly finished.

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Whitty, for that important contribution. I shall take his three points in the order he made them. The first was on the failure of the authorities. It is a very fair point, and something we are focused on. He will understand that I cannot comment on the situation in Barking; it is very early days and we have not yet analysed it sufficiently to be able to comment on it. However, I accept that something central to the messages that we are getting and to common sense is that the people who know their housing best are the people who live in it. That fundamental lesson needs to sink in and be taken forward.

I know that noble Lords and many others think the public inquiry is painfully slow, but 200,000 documents are being examined and will inform the response of the three commissioners. I very much welcome the additional two commissioners. They will be very helpful, but I agree with the point the noble Lord, Lord Whitty, is making. In relation to resources, the budget is important. Changes in regulations will no doubt feature in the spending review, but I would not disagree with that either.

In relation to prosecutions and the police situation, the noble Lord will know that the separation of powers is such that I cannot comment in any detail on what is happening. Indeed, I do not know in any detail what is happening, but interviews have been held under caution. In such a situation, one would expect there to be potential for ensuring that those who are to blame for aspects of this are brought to justice. While the matters that relate to the police are quite rightly not within the control of government on a daily basis, it seems that work is happening in that regard.

[Lord Shipley (LD)]

My Lords, I remind the House of my interests as set out in the register. I want to raise two issues about tenants’ rights, both of which have been proposed by Grenfell United. The first is that there should be a new, separate consumer protection regulator to protect tenants and change the culture of social housing across the country—in other words, not just leaving everything within the remit of the current system of regulation. That idea has merit, and I hope the Government will be willing to look at it. The second relates to freedom of information. Grenfell United is—in my view, rightly—calling for an extension of the Freedom of Information Act to cover tenant management organisations and housing associations, to give tenants the right to see critical information about their homes. Have the Government done anything about that, as previously proposed? It seems to me that tenants, as occupiers of their dwellings, have a right to know what their landlord knows about their property.

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Shipley, for the constructive way in which he approaches these issues, as always. I have not yet read the document that Grenfell United distributed today but I will no doubt have that opportunity, as will other Ministers. Obviously, in the context of the social housing Green Paper and the subsequent legislation, there will be an opportunity to look at some of these points. Certainly, the point that the noble Lord made about freedom of information seems a very sensible way forward. I do not want to commit us to anything at this stage, other than to say that we will look at this issue very seriously along with the other proposals that have been made. As I said, these people know the situation better than anybody else and we do right to consider what they say.

Council Funding

Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth Excerpts

Tuesday 4th June 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bird]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government, further to the Institute for Fiscal Studies report English council funding: what’s happened and what’s next?, published on 29 May, what steps they are taking to provide additional resources to councils to enable them to (1) continue to provide, and (2) extend and improve, their existing services.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Ministry of Housing, Communities and Local Government and Wales Office (Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth) (Con)]

My Lords, the Government are committed to supporting councils and recognise their efforts to deliver critical services for communities. The 2019-20 settlement confirmed that core spending power is forecast to increase in cash terms by 2.8%—a real-terms increase in resources. This allows councils to deliver the services that residents need. The upcoming spending review is the vehicle for agreeing funding from 2020-21 onwards for the sector, and the department’s preparations are well under way.

[Lord Bird (CB)]

I think that any of us going around most of our communities would agree that they are being hollowed out. If you look at what is happening with homelessness, libraries and youth services, you will see that there is a lot of feeling in the community that the Government are not standing behind local authorities, so I am sorry but I have to contradict what the Minister says. Any of us walking around will see what is happening. Is it possible that we could raise taxes so that we could give more money to the local authorities, or is it possible that we could give them the right to raise the money locally so that they could improve their communities? The way things are going, the hollowing out and the problems will carry on, and we will be the recipients of very bad anti-social behaviour.

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, the noble Lord’s Question refers to the Institute for Fiscal Studies report, which I have read. The authors of the report, Neil Amin-Smith and David Phillips, are fair in acknowledging some of the things that we have done with regard to local government spending—for example, they cite a 10% increase in children’s social services. But the noble Lord is right in that there has been a reduction in other areas. The report canvasses the possibility of a local income tax, but I do not think that that is the way forward, and nor does my party. However, I am sure that the noble Lord would want to acknowledge that there is much innovation. He referred to libraries—a subject which I know is close to his heart. In Warrington, for example, hubs provide library services with other services, which is an innovative way of improving the service. That has also happened in Leeds and in other areas. I think that that is the way forward.

[Lord Kennedy of Southwark (Lab Co-op)]

My Lords, I again refer the House to my relevant registered interest. Can the noble Lord tell the House why he thinks that so many councils are struggling to deliver services, one of the most serious examples being the difficulties faced by Northamptonshire County Council?

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, I readily acknowledge that there are challenges, but it is important to say that many facets indicate that things are improving. We know—the Chancellor has said—that we have ended austerity, and the comprehensive spending review is around the corner. It is also the case, as I am sure the noble Lord will acknowledge, that the last settlement was a good settlement. The noble Lord, Lord Porter, acknowledged as much, and other people in other parties have done the same. Innovation is a way of improving services and so too are some central government grants for such things as the Future High Streets Fund, Stronger Towns funding and so on, which do not go through local government but directly to the towns concerned.

[Lord Watts (Lab)]

My Lords, the most has been taken from the poorest communities. When you look around, you will see that the poorest communities have had the biggest cuts in their local services, whether local government or health. Why are the Government pursuing this?

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, I am sure the noble Lord would be the first to acknowledge that the fair funding formula is one way of addressing this to ensure that we get it right, so that local authorities with the greatest needs and challenges are properly funded. That is why we are progressing it.

[Baroness Pinnock (LD)]

My Lords, I refer Members to my registered interests as a councillor and a vice-president of the Local Government Association. Having watched the BBC programme on social care delivery in Somerset, in which both the providers and the carers were close to tears because of the inadequacy of the service they were able to provide through lack of resources, I wonder whether the Minister agrees that this is a shocking indictment of the state of funding of local government and that the Government have a desperate responsibility to put this right—and to put it right now.

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, I did not have the privilege of watching the programme to which the noble Baroness refers, but I have indicated the challenge we face on social care. She will acknowledge, I am sure, that £10 billion for the three-year period ending in 2020 has made a significant difference, but challenges still exist. I am sure she will also acknowledge that we have increased children’s social care spending beyond what it was in 2009. I am the first to agree that there are challenges, but I cannot comment specifically on Somerset as I did not see the programme.

[Baroness Lister of Burtersett (Lab)]

Despite what the Minister has said, the IFS report says that cuts have been larger in more deprived areas than in more affluent areas. These are areas where local welfare assistance schemes to replace the national Social Fund are most needed, yet this ultimate safety net is being shredded and the Government say they have no responsibility. Will they now take responsibility, ensure that local authorities have a duty to provide such schemes, provide the funds for them to do so and ring-fence those funds?

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, that was a pantechnicon of questions; any that I miss I will endeavour to cover in a separate letter to the noble Baroness. I am sure she would be the first to acknowledge that the IFS report is very balanced. There are certainly areas where it raises the issue of additional funding, including the possibility of local income tax. I am not sure of the noble Baroness’s position on that; my own, and that of my party, is that we do not think it would be a good idea. There are challenges on funding. Some will be met, I am sure, by increased spending via the comprehensive spending review; some can be met by innovation in delivery on which the IFS has commented favourably in the past; and some will no doubt by met by the direct funding which I have referred to such as the Stronger Towns Fund, the Future High Streets Fund and so on.

Housing: Social Rent

Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth Excerpts

Tuesday 4th June 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Shipley (LD)]

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper, and remind the House of my vice-presidency of the Local Government Association.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Ministry of Housing, Communities and Local Government and Wales Office (Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth) (Con)]

My Lords, in October 2017 we announced £2 billion towards the now £9 billion affordable housing programme, which will support the delivery of at least 12,500 social rent homes in areas of high affordability outside London. We have also removed the HRA borrowing caps for local authorities, announced a further £2 billion of long-term funding for housing associations, and are setting a long-term rent deal for councils in England from 2020. It is now for housing associations and local authorities to accelerate delivery and build more homes.

[Lord Shipley]

I thank the Minister for his reply. He will be aware that there is a difference between affordable and social housing. He will also be aware that this year marks the centenary of the housing Act 1919, which created council and social housing. Given the scale of homelessness today, and given that waiting lists for social housing stand at over a million households, does the Minister accept that a new generation of social housing is required, rather than just a few thousand new homes a year?

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, I certainly agree with the noble Lord that there is a challenge. We have just had the best year of housing delivery for 30 years, bar one year, but that is not to be complacent. There is certainly a challenge; I accept that we need to build more social homes. The raising of the £2 billion budget will certainly help in that regard, as will the elimination of the HRA borrowing caps.

[Lord Best (CB)]

My Lords, the Affordable Housing Commission, which I have the honour of chairing, has been looking at issues around affordability. Our evidence clearly demonstrates that rents, not just in the private sector but increasingly in the social sector, are leading people into all kinds of serious difficulties, such as debt, arrears, personal problems and indeed homelessness. Does the Minister agree—with the CSJ, the housing commission, Shelter and so many others—that we need more social housing but at genuinely affordable rents, which are less than the rents that housing associations are required to charge today, otherwise this will cost the Government greatly in housing benefit, homelessness, temporary accommodation and, indeed, the misery of the people affected?

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, as always, the noble Lord makes a powerful point and speaks from great experience. He is right that the current welfare budget, excluding pensions, is £119 billion per annum—a large amount. We have to be conscious of the link between housing and welfare, so I take the point. However, I am sure he will appreciate that the affordability measure enables us to provide more housing. It is about getting that balance right.

[Lord Naseby (Con)]

My Lords, is it not encouraging that shared purchase, as a concept and now as a practical arrangement, is increasing? Are the new figures for council housing, which my noble friend has mentioned, not equally encouraging? But what exactly is happening with garden towns? They are the catalyst that could help part of the problem in our great urban areas. The new towns projects—and I had the privilege of sitting for a new town—were highly successful in moving people out of conurbations so that those who had to stay could move into the vacated homes.

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, the noble Lord is right that there are encouraging features, and about the garden towns concept. I am conscious that I owe him a letter; I checked just before leaving and it should be with him tomorrow. It is right to say that this is the successor to the new towns programme. There are many exciting features, not least the Oxford-Cambridge arc, which we will appoint a business manager to oversee. It should provide many of the homes that we need for the future.

[Baroness Blackstone (Ind Lab)]

My Lords, I am sure the Minister is aware that, in recent years, local authorities have spent over £1 billion on temporary accommodation over three or four years. He talked about getting the balance right; surely this is not getting the balance right. That amount of money is going on accommodation which will not last, and children in those families will suffer hugely: their education and home life will be damaged. This is a matter of real urgency. The Government’s programme is not sufficient in the funding being made available to local authorities and housing associations to solve the problem of social housing.

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, I have already acknowledged that it is important to deal with this issue. I am sure the noble Baroness is aware that the Homelessness Reduction Act has resulted in a lowering of the number of people who are homeless. It is difficult to make the comparison with the statistics, but the evidence tends to suggest that. Yes, there is work to be done, not least on the provision of homes at social rent. As I have indicated, that is something we are determined to do.

[Baroness Browning (Con)]

Does my noble friend envisage that the solution to the need for social housing would be met by nationalising all available building land throughout the country, including presumably land owned by charitable trusts, Church Commissioners and others?

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, I think my noble friend is referring to the policy initiative of the leader of the Opposition, and I tend to agree that that will not help solve the problem. We are intent on getting the balance right and ensuring that, in tenancies, there are the right measures to deal with disreputable landlords. However, the compulsory purchase of people’s property is not the way forward.

[Lord Kennedy of Southwark (Lab Co-op)]

My Lords, I refer the House to my relevant interest as a vice-president of the Local Government Association. How many homes for social rent have been lost since 2015 by the conversion to the affordable rent model?

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, I do not have that specific figure to hand, but I will write to the noble Lord with it. As I have indicated, it is important that we build more homes for social rent, and we are intent on doing that outside London. Within London, there will be provision of affordable homes at the level of social rents; that is part of the programme and we are delivering that with the Greater London Authority.

[Baroness Thornhill (LD)]

My Lords, does the Minister agree that the Government’s own social rent policy is a key component in creating a sustainable funding model for building social housing? As this policy is due for review in 2021, will the Government take this opportunity to provide renters, housing providers and investors, including councils, with some clarity, predictability and stability in this market, which at the moment they do not feel they have?

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, I am a little surprised that the noble Baroness said that. As I indicated, we removed the HRA borrowing cap, which was a substantial barrier to provision of housing at social rent, as was acknowledged across the board. It has been widely welcomed, not least by her own party, and will make a real difference. I am not sure what additional clarity she is referring to, but I am happy to meet her separately if it is helpful.

Homelessness

Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth Excerpts

Tuesday 21st May 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord McNicol of West Kilbride]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what plans they have to address increases in homelessness.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Ministry of Housing, Communities and Local Government and Wales Office (Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth) (Con)]

My Lords, tackling homelessness and rough sleeping is a key priority for the Government. The Government are already undertaking a significant programme of work, backed by £1.2 billion, to tackle homelessness. This includes supporting local authorities in the implementation of the Homelessness Reduction Act and increasing access to the private rented sector for families in temporary accommodation.

[Lord McNicol of West Kilbride (Lab)]

I thank the Minister for his Answer. Can he confirm the number of children living without a home in temporary accommodation? My understanding is that it is around 120,000. If that number is correct, it is an increase of 70% since 2010. Why does he think that there has been such an increase and, more importantly, what are his Government going to do to tackle it? If we in this House would not allow our children or grandchildren to be homeless, why do we allow other people’s children?

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, the figure that I have to hand for the number of people who are homeless—as opposed to rough sleeping—is 58,660. That is the first count under the particular way we calculate figures. New figures are out this Friday, which no doubt the noble Lord will want to look at. Spending on homelessness is a key feature of tackling it, but it is not the only thing, as I think that he would acknowledge. The issue is much more complex than that. As I indicated, we are spending £1.2 billion on this. We are also spending money specifically on rough sleeping, as there is a particular issue there. However, many other things are involved, such as family breakdown, addiction issues, coming out of prison or coming out of the armed services; it is a much more complex picture than he perhaps indicated.

[Baroness Grender (LD)]

My Lords, given that the Minister sees the private rented sector as part of the solution, does he accept that the shortfall between the local housing allowance and rent has more than doubled since the benefit freeze was introduced in 2016? Does he also accept that, as a result, and because they are in debt by more than £100 a month, people are now having to choose between food and rent? Surely simply not extending the benefit freeze is not enough, and it should be ended as soon as possible.

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, the noble Baroness is right about the interface between benefits and housing provision; there is obviously a link between the two. We spend around £23 billion a year to help with housing costs, which is a significant amount. Perhaps I can just mention one project. She highlights the importance of private sector accommodation, which I absolutely acknowledge. As of recently, we are spending £37.8 million of government funds on a system for the 13 London boroughs that have signed up to a collaboration project called Capital Letters. The scheme gets people into private accommodation, which helps significantly.

[Lord Naseby (Con)]

My Lords, will my noble friend bring us up to date on what is happening with new towns and green towns? The whole concept of new towns was to take pressure away from the inner-city areas, where this problem is. Have we any plans to bring forward some new towns?

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, my noble friend is absolutely right: this is a key feature of our housing provision, not just to take pressure off London and the big conurbations but because of the need for housing generally. There is significant development in the Oxford-Cambridge arc, where we are spending a lot of money, and elsewhere as well. If I may, I will update him and ensure that a letter on the current progress of all the towns and villages is placed in the Library.

[Lord Kennedy of Southwark (Lab Co-op)]

My Lords, I draw the attention of the House to my relevant interest as a vice-president of the Local Government Association. My noble friend Lord McNicol has raised a really important issue. What are the Government doing to tackle child homelessness, as living in insecure accommodation as a child will negatively affect their mental health, emotional well-being and schooling?

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, the noble Lord raises a fair point. He is right about the issues around child poverty and child homelessness, which is a particular concern for the Government. That is why, in relation to welfare spending, we are keen that money is directed to those households with children, to make sure that they are able to gain a home. It remains a key priority. If I may, I will write to him on the suite of policies to tackle this across other government departments, because it is an area where we have concerns.

[Lord Bird (CB)]

My Lords, is the Minister aware that there are an enormous number of mental health problems on the streets, and that we should see young people—and not-so-young people—on the streets as an extension of our A&E department? As soon as we try to direct some energy towards the health issues of those people, we will be able to get them off the streets.

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, as I indicated in one of my previous answers, there is very much a link between homelessness and mental health. I am pleased that as a general provision we are looking much more seriously at mental health. We marked Mental Health Week recently. This pervades all government policy, and certainly pervades housing spending. The noble Lord will know because he serves on the rough sleeping advisory panel—I thank him for that—that we are keen to address this issue. We have referenced this with various charities, local authorities and metro mayors—Andy Street and Andy Burnham serve on that panel—to try to get advice on some of these issues.

[Baroness Lister of Burtersett (Lab)]

My Lords, I note the Minister’s acknowledgment of the link between homelessness and benefits. Evidence of the ways in which the Government’s social security policy undermines their homelessness strategy is growing. Most recently, a group of organisations including the Local Government Association, Crisis and the Chartered Institute of Housing called on the Government to restore the local housing allowance rate to at least the 30th percentile of the local rental market as a matter of urgency, because it is too low to cover private rents in most parts of the country. Will he convey that message to his colleagues in the Treasury and DWP?

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, I regularly do so. There is spending in this area, some targeted at assistance, and that is having some success. I accept what the noble Baroness says about this area of spending, and no doubt the Chancellor will look at it in the spending review as we come out of austerity, because it is money well spent.

Buckinghamshire (Structural Changes) Order 2019

Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth Excerpts

Monday 20th May 2019 Lords Chamber

Moved by

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

That the draft Order laid before the House on 2 April be approved.

Relevant document: 24th Report from the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee (Sub-Committee B)

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Ministry of Housing, Communities and Local Government and Wales Office (Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth) (Con)]

My Lords, on 2 April a draft of this order was laid before this House and the other place, which approved it on 13 May. If now approved by Parliament and made, it gives effect to the decision of my right honourable friend the Secretary of State that the locally led proposal to replace the five existing Buckinghamshire councils with a new single unitary council should be implemented.

This order is a key element in the legislative process for establishing unitary local government in Buckinghamshire. It provides that on 1 April 2020 the existing five councils will be wound up and dissolved—that is, for the abolition of the county council and the district councils of Aylesbury Vale, Chiltern, South Bucks and Wycombe. It provides that in their place the new unitary Buckinghamshire Council will be established. The order also provides for appropriate transitional arrangements. These are centred on the new Buckinghamshire Council being established in shadow form once the order is in force, with that council becoming fully operational on 1 April 2020.

We have already debated and approved regulations on the Buckinghamshire proposal, which were made on 21 February 2019. As I said during the Grand Committee consideration of those regulations, they enable orders implementing unitary proposals in Buckinghamshire, such as the order we are considering today and any further order that may be necessary, to be made if Parliament approves.

There is a powerful case for implementing the locally led proposal for change submitted by the county council. Indeed, there has consistently been consensus among all five Buckinghamshire councils that local government across the county should be reorganised and that retaining the status quo is not an option.

This unitary proposal, submitted to my right honourable friend the Secretary of State and which will be implemented if Parliament approves, is that there should be a single council for Buckinghamshire, with community boards enabling local councillors to take decisions on issues such as funding for community groups and local roads maintenance, and community hubs to provide access to services. The proposal envisages devolving responsibilities to those town and parish councils that have ambitions to take greater ownership for local decisions regarding the management of assets and delivery of services, so that they can tailor these to community needs.

My right honourable friend the Secretary of State has assessed that the proposal meets our three criteria for unitarisation. These were set out by my honourable friend the Member for Nuneaton in the other place in February 2017. These criteria are: first, whether a unitary proposal, when assessed in the round, would if implemented be likely to improve the area’s local government; secondly, whether it commands a good deal of local support in the area; and thirdly, whether the area itself has a credible geography for the proposed new structures.

On 12 March 2018 my right honourable friend the Secretary of State announced that he was “minded to” implement the proposal for a single unitary council in Buckinghamshire and invited representations to be made to him. Having carefully considered the more than 3,000 representations he received, on 1 November 2018 my right honourable friend announced his intention to implement the proposal, if approved by Parliament.

In reaching this conclusion he was clear that the proposal met our three criteria. On the first criterion, it will improve local government by: enhancing social care and safeguarding services through closer connection with related services such as housing, leisure and benefits; offering opportunities for improved strategic decision-making in areas such as housing, planning and transport; providing improvements to local partner- ships with other public sector bodies; generating savings estimated by the county council to be £18.2 million per annum; enabling 19 community boards, each with a community hub, to be established to serve Buckinghamshire towns and villages; and providing a single point of contact so that residents, businesses and local communities will be able to access all council services from one place.

On the second criterion, it commands a good deal of support. The more than 3,000 representations we received following my right honourable friend’s “minded to” decision in March 2018 showed overwhelming support for change, with 87% of all representations supporting unitarisation in principle and 35% of all representations supporting a single unitary council, with 47% supporting two unitary councils.

The public sector service providers—the police and crime commissioner, the South Central Ambulance Service, Buckinghamshire Healthcare NHS Trust and Buckinghamshire Clinical Commissioning Group—all support a single unitary council and highlight that the majority of partner organisations operate on a countywide geography; they support a shared geography with the council to improve the overall provision of services in Buckinghamshire.

The Department for Education-appointed Children’s Commissioner, in his report on Buckinghamshire children’s services, strongly supported the single unitary proposal as the option that would best safeguard children’s services if local government restructuring were to take place.

Business organisations are strongly supportive of a single unitary council. Buckinghamshire Business First, with more than 10,000 members, considers that a single unitary council is the most effective and affordable proposal. The Buckinghamshire business group supports a single unitary council on the basis that it will deliver significant savings, simplification for businesses and strategic alignment with other bodies. Of the 18 individual representations, the split is about 50:50.

On the third criterion, the proposal represents a credible geography. The current county council geography has a widely accepted credibility that has been in existence for many years, as highlighted by the support for a single unitary council from public sector service providers that already operate on these shared boundaries. The Buckinghamshire Thames Valley Local Enterprise Partnership is very clear that Buckinghamshire is a functional economic area.

Since the announcement on 1 November, we have, in discussion with the councils concerned, been preparing the necessary secondary legislation to implement this proposal: the regulations which streamline the process, and which have already been approved by Parliament, and this order. Our discussions with the councils have been largely about the transitional arrangements for which provision is made in this order. This includes how the shadow authority and its executive will drive forward the implementation. Where there has been agreement between all five councils, we have adopted their preferred approach. Where there are different views on detailed provisions, my right honourable friend the Secretary of State balanced the differing views in the context of his decision to implement the proposal for a single unitary council and the need to ensure stability of key social care services, taking particular note of the recommendations of the Children’s Commissioner.

The most significant details of the transition arrangements are as follows. The shadow authority will be made up of all the members of the five existing councils, giving a total of 236 seats; although in practice the number of twin-hatters—members sitting on both the county council and one of the district councils—reduces the number of councillors to just over 200. The shadow executive, to which the transition functions are delegated from the shadow authority, will be made up of 17 members nominated by the existing councils. The leader of the shadow executive will be the leader of the county council; eight further members will be nominated by the county council and two by each of the four district councils. The executive can decide to change their leader if they wish. There will be new electoral arrangements, including the date of the first election on 7 May 2020, when 147 councillors will be elected for the first five-year term; subsequent elections, which will be held in May 2025 and every fourth year thereafter; and new warding arrangements for the May 2025 elections.

These arrangements are consistent with those in previous unitarisations, providing the leading role for the council that submitted the proposal and ensuring a good mix of experience among shadow executive members. For example, in Central Bedfordshire, the proposal was submitted by district councils, and in this instance the leader of the shadow executive was specified as the leader of one of the district councils. The shadow executive had a majority of district councillors, but representation from the county council ensured a mix of experience. Following the practice of previous unitarisations, the structural change order specifies that the functions of the shadow authority are to be exercised largely by the shadow executive.

In conclusion, we are seeking to replace the existing unsustainable local government structures in Buckinghamshire with a new council that will be able to deliver high-quality sustainable local services to the people of Buckinghamshire and provide effective leadership at both the strategic and the most local level. The inclusion in the proposal of community boards and delegation to parish and town councils, where this is wanted, will mean that the arrangements not only open the door to improved local services but shift power to communities, helping them get involved in decision-making in their local area. All the existing councils have made it clear that they share these aims and are committed to the best services for Buckinghamshire communities—for which we are most grateful. This order delivers this, and on that basis I commend it to the House. I beg to move.

--- Later in debate ---

I am not opposing the order, but I feel there is something not quite right about how local government is evolving in England. It is not clear; it does not give certainty or value for money, either for the taxpayer or for the council tax payer; and it is no way to deliver services. Reorganisations will not get the Government off the hook with the crisis we have in local government, which is a result of the nearly £8 billion funding gap that local authorities face no matter what structures we have. I look forward to the Minister’s response.

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, I thank noble Lords who have participated in this debate. I will do my best to answer the valid points that have been raised.

Like the noble Lord, Lord Stevenson, I appreciated the meeting we had which, as he said, was also attended by the noble Baroness, Lady Pidding, who is not in her place at present. I found it a useful discussion. In that meeting and again today, the noble Lord made some very valid points. He indicated that the message on support is ambiguous. I accept that overall, in terms of personal interventions, there was more support for two unitary authorities than one. But the point I was making, which I think unanswerable, is that there was an overwhelming response in favour of change—in favour of unitarisation. I see that the noble Lord accepts that.

I turn to a point made by the noble Lord, Lord Kennedy, about democracy in general. He and I have had this discussion previously. As a councillor of great and long standing, he knows very well that in a democracy one has to respond to the people who respond, whether through surveys or votes. He and I would both like more people to participate, as I am sure would all noble Lords in the Chamber.

The noble Lord, Lord Stevenson, also raised an issue about the changes that are undoubtedly happening in the country at large, such as with HS2 and housing. Those are certainly important developments but they affect many councils, not only Buckinghamshire. I was not quite sure at one stage whether the noble Lord wanted us to look at this in terms of a larger unit or a smaller one. The support that he seemed to be getting behind was in favour of having two unitary authorities but, looking at it more broadly, some of the housing issues on the Oxford-Cambridge arc would indicate the need for a larger authority.

[Lord Stevenson of Balmacara]

I am sorry if I did not make myself clear. What I was trying to argue for was a review in the not too distant future. The statutory instrument says that there will be no review, because once this unitary council is established local democracy will take care of any changes, but I think that that misses the point that he has just made: there are substantial changes on the horizon, some of which are happening even today, and it would be sensible to have in mind the thought of thinking again about the overall structure.

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

I am grateful for that. The noble Lord did indeed make that point. I was going to come on to look at the issue of the review. I think he has indicated now, although perhaps not as strongly as earlier, that we are looking at the electoral response in terms of a review of arrangements. As he has indicated previously, most of these changes affect other council areas as well as Buckinghamshire, which is the subject of the debate at the moment.

During the course of his very useful contribution, he referred to winners and losers. That is not how we are looking at this. I accept that the breakdown will see nine representatives on the executive from the county council area and eight from elsewhere, but I do not think that that is domination; it is a narrow majority. As I have indicated, there will be an opportunity to replace the leader if there is a desire to do so—so that is there as well.

All the council leaders have indicated—and I am very grateful for this—their strong support for the new arrangements and their desire to get behind them, which, in all fairness, the noble Lord, Lord Stevenson, also indicated. That is the way we have to look at this. It is not with unanimous support, but with local government reorganisations it would be strange if it were. It seeks to represent the fact that we need a compromise. I am very grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Stunell, for indicating his support for the Secretary of State and the sensible compromise. We are trying to work towards a consensus with the three-member wards and the 147 members.

The re-warding that will happen after 2025 will be led by the Boundary Commission. It would be unwise for me to opine on that at this stage, but obviously it will be guided by experience. I share with the noble Lord the general desire that we do not want too few members. We perhaps have to recognise that there is a real job of work to be done here. I have to say that 147 sounds reasonable to me—but, as I say, this will be guided by experience and by the Boundary Commission. Obviously there will be a chance to look at this as things develop.

The noble Lord, Lord Stunell, made some very useful comments. I thank him for them and for his broad support for the measure. I agree with him on the need, as I say, to have a generous number of members—not too few—to represent democracy. I also agree about the important role of the parish councils. I have sought to find out, during the course of the discussions we have had, what is proposed. This will be led by the new authority, of course, but they have indicated that they want community hubs for the 19 areas, and the intention is that they should be represented by community boards for those areas to serve Buckinghamshire towns and villages and enable local councillors to take decisions on very local issues such as funding for community groups, local road maintenance and things that would apply to those particular communities. That is the intention. For example, residents in communities such as Buckingham and Beaconsfield at different ends of the county and in the surrounding areas would be able to look to decisions on local matters being made closer to those communities. The intention is to work closely with public sector providers in those areas as well to try to ensure that there is a genuinely local feel to the way that decisions are reached there.

I turn to the contribution by the noble Lord, Lord Kennedy. Again, I thank him for his general support for what we are doing—or at least for the fact that he will not oppose it, as I think he phrased it. He made some very fair points about the strategy. He was concerned that we had something more like a detailed blueprint. That is not the way in which we have been seeking to do this. Things are different in different areas, and the consistent theme running through this is democracy. It would be hard to see some sort of metro mayor operation in Buckinghamshire, for example, although I think it is appropriate for Cambridge and Peterborough. I think the noble Lord would accept that different rules apply to different parts of the country.

He talked—perhaps this is an indication of Labour being somewhat rooted in the past—about the sweet counter at Woolworths. I have news for the noble Lord: that has long since gone. But I accept his general point that there is perhaps a need for a more consistent theme. He will know that we will be making a Statement on devolution in England; we are committed to doing that. That will perhaps be in relation to the metro mayor position. I hope that the noble Lord will take comfort from that.

To come back to democracy, it is worth noting that this proposal came from the area; it did not come from the Government. Obviously we have had a hand in shaping it, but the initial proposal came from the councils of the area itself.

[Lord Stevenson of Balmacara]

I listened to the Minister explain the position and I am picking up on what my noble friend Lord Kennedy said. Does the Minister accept that we have an area that has perhaps grown up with a particular style of government, and where there has not been much change over the last 30 years or so? There is a danger that by listening to only that voice and considering the representation from only one of the five councils, one is playing to a particular style and approach, and not thinking about the wider context of metropolitan-type counties near London, many of which will have similar problems. The point my noble friend was making was that there is probably a level of perspective above that, which suggests that we need a better template for all that, to make sure those particularities do not dominate a more general case.

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

I certainly accept that there is a need to listen to a broad range of opinions. In fairness to local representatives, MPs and councils, I think we have done that in Buckinghamshire. There is not unanimity of opinion; that is a perfectly valid point. I also accept, and this will be reflected when we look at devolution arrangements for England, that there is a need to look at a broad feel for the country and how matters are governed. That is fair, but we also have to recognise that a uniform, monochrome blueprint—I have mixed my metaphors—for councils is undesirable. There is perhaps a way around this that accommodates both.

I am really grateful for the contributions made. I am sure we will take account of these comments. I will seek to update noble Lords on any points I have missed in this very useful debate. I thank them for their contributions and their general support.

Motion agreed.

Housing: No-fault Evictions

Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth Excerpts

Wednesday 15th May 2019 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Thornhill]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what is the timetable for the recently proposed consultation to end no fault evictions and how it will differ from the consultation Overcoming the barriers to longer tenancies in the private rented sector of July 2018.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Ministry of Housing, Communities and Local Government and Wales Office (Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth) (Con)]

My Lords, there was no widespread support for a fixed-term tenancy model. We concluded that the best way to introduce greater security was to remove Section 21 no-fault evictions, strengthen existing Section 8 eviction grounds and reform court processes. We want to collaborate with landlords and tenants to ensure that these reforms are introduced effectively. We expect to consult on our proposals over the summer.

[Baroness Thornhill (LD)]

I thank the noble Lord for that Answer but I would be grateful for more information on the timeframe for the legislation. This is indeed welcome news for the thousands of tenants who live with insecure short-term tenancies and the fear of eviction on a daily basis, but they need the change soon. Given that there will be opposition from landlords, what measures will the Government put in place to ensure that this excellent policy will be effective and immediate and not delayed or thwarted by the threat of rent hikes or the pulling of properties from the market?

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness for her welcome for the proposal. There is certainly no intention to hang about with this: we want to consult, particularly on Section 8 and what the ground should be for ending tenancies. That is an important part of this. It has been widely welcomed, including by many landlord groups, in all fairness. Responsible landlords have nothing to fear from this; it is essentially about being fair to landlords and tenants.

[Lord Best (CB)]

My Lords, I declare my various housing interests in the register. I congratulate the Government on this important measure, giving much greater security of tenure to tenants and promising that landlords will have swifter processes when a tenant really is at fault. Does the Minister agree that one of the big gains from this will be that tenants will not be afeared to make complaints against landlords who are behaving badly? At the moment, people fear retaliatory evictions and are very often silent when they should stand up for their rights.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, I very much agree with the noble Lord on that point: the essence of what we propose is that this is right for responsible landlords and it is right by tenants, who indeed sometimes go in fear of making complaints because of the possibility of eviction. That concerns a very small number of landlords, but this will knock that into shape to ensure we have the fairness of which I spoke.

[Lord Beecham (Lab)]

My Lords, in theory legal aid and advice is available for eviction matters, though in practice there seem to be deserts in legal advice on this area because there are not sufficient practitioners who engage with that side of the law. Will the Minister consult the Ministry of Justice to ensure more incentives for lawyers to provide the service needed by these people in very difficult situations?

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, the noble Lord speaks with great experience in this area. He will be reassured by the fact that the reform will in many cases mean that people will not need to go to law, because the law will be absolutely clear and the activity will therefore cease. Our consultation will be wide and open for people to contribute. He will also know that we are looking at other procedures for speeding up, simplifying and streamlining the process, and that should help too.

[Baroness Gardner of Parkes (Con)]

Can the Minister assure us that the impact of the short lets for holidays will also be taken into consideration, to help these tenancies become longer rather than having them concealed and desperately affecting other people in the buildings?

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, I had not anticipated a dimension for short-term tenancies—unwisely, perhaps—but the whole range of activity will be considered in the consultation to make sure that it is fair to everybody.

[Baroness Grender (LD)]

My Lords, is the Minister aware that since Scotland scrapped no-fault evictions over a year ago, ONS data suggests that rental inflation has remained lower, the private rented sector has remained stable, and the change has not had an adverse impact on homeless people? There was a time when a Conservative Government thought it was perfectly normal to implement a change in Scotland, see how it went and then do it in England. Why cannot we do that now for the tenants who so desperately need this?

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, I thought the noble Baroness would be very grateful that, once the coalition Government had ended, we were able to do these things, looking at what was happening in Scotland and implementing it as effectively as we have. In all seriousness, it is often very helpful—as I and many know—to look at devolved experience and learn lessons from it. We have indeed looked at what is happening in Scotland. While we are not replicating it, there are certainly lessons to be learned.

[Lord Vinson (Con)]

My Lords, I hope any new legislation will make it possible for servicemen and others who need to go abroad as part of their jobs to be able when they come home to reclaim the houses they have let. I am afraid that a great many houses will not come on the market for letting if that is not made possible.

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, my noble friend makes an important point. That is why we have the consultation on Section 8. There are many instances in which it is totally appropriate for someone to be able to regain their property; he has just cited one. That is why we seek to do right by landlords in those sorts of situations.

[Lord Clark of Windermere (Lab)]

My Lords, I will follow up on the question of the noble Baroness, Lady Gardner. While there does not appear to be an obvious link between short-term holiday lets and this proposal—which I welcome—we have seen before unintended consequences of the link between the two. It would be disastrous in many rural areas if it meant that houses currently let to local people were withdrawn from the market and used as holiday lets.

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, the noble Lord makes an important point but I fail to see the connection with this proposal. He is absolutely right about ensuring that the needs of local people are taken care of as regards housing supply and affordability, but that is not impacted by this provision. However, I am happy to engage with him further on that matter.

[The Earl of Listowel (CB)]

My Lords, what impact does the Minister think this very positive policy may have on the numbers of families living in hostel and bed-and-breakfast accommodation? What progress may be made in reducing the numbers of families living in such accommodation, the figures for which are at the highest levels since 2003?

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, the noble Earl raises an important point about homelessness and people living in hostels. I do not see this as having a particular impact and if it does, it is a benign one, but it is probably very much at the margin of ensuring that people are much more secure in accommodation when previously they have not been.

[Lord Naseby (Con)]

Is there not a wider problem? The latest statistics indicate that the number of properties available to be rented is falling at a time when demand is pretty firm. Will these discussions address that problem? If not, there will only be a great shortage of housing for younger people who want to rent and be genuine tenants.

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, my noble friend is right about the importance of ensuring a steady supply of housing in general but he referenced the rented sector in particular, which we have to be aware of. That is why this provision is so welcome, because it ensures security for tenants across the board where previously some have not had it, while doing right by landlords and ensuring that, where appropriate, they can regain premises that are let out.

Domestic Abuse

Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth Excerpts

Tuesday 14th May 2019 Lords Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Ministry of Housing, Communities and Local Government and Wales Office (Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth) (Con)]

My Lords, with the leave of the House, I shall repeat a Statement on domestic abuse made yesterday by the Secretary of State for Housing, Communities and Local Government. The Statement is as follows:

“With permission, Mr Speaker, I should like to make a Statement to the House today on a consultation on a new, sustainable approach to delivering support to victims of domestic abuse and their children in accommodation-based services across England.

Domestic abuse is a devastating crime experienced by more than 2 million adults a year, with women twice as likely to be victims. This is completely unacceptable, and we have much more to do if we are to reach a point where no family lives with the threat of domestic abuse.

Domestic abuse can take many forms and affects the young and old, male and female. But whoever the victim, those fleeing abuse must have somewhere safe to go. Just last year, we announced £22 million to provide more than 2,220 new beds in refuges and other safe accommodation, supporting more than 25,000 survivors with a safe space to rebuild their lives, but I know that more must be done to ensure a consistent approach across the country to ensure that survivors have a safer future.

At the 2017 general election, the Prime Minister made a manifesto commitment to review funding for refuges. The Ending Violence Against Women and Girls strategy for 2016-20 set out our ambition to provide support for refuges and other accommodation-based services, helping local areas ensure that no victim is turned away from the support they require at the time of need. We also committed to reviewing the locally led approach to commissioning of domestic abuse services.

To meet these commitments, in January 2018 we began a full review of the funding and commissioning of domestic abuse services in England. We have worked closely with sector partners, drawing on their data, expertise and knowledge. This review complements wider government work on tackling this devastating crime and supporting victims, including our new domestic abuse Bill.

Through the course of the review, we have engaged with specialist domestic abuse service providers and their representative bodies, local authorities, police and crime commissioners and other organisations which support victims to fully understand the challenges in commissioning and delivering these vital services and the positive features of the current system. We are grateful for their engagement and extensive input into our work.

We know that there are dedicated professionals delivering support to victims and their children in accommodation-based services across England. This support helps victims move from danger and abuse to safety and independence, and their children to regain their childhoods, and includes the vital work of service managers and support staff, counsellors, outreach workers and play therapists. But we also know that we need to do more to ensure that all victims and their children can access this support at the right time, underpinned by a sustainable approach to providing it.

We understand that victims and their children will live in a variety of different forms of safe accommodation and will need support to stay safe and rebuild their lives in all of them. This includes outreach support to remain safe in properties with enhanced security measures, in emergency or temporary accommodation, in dispersed accommodation and in refuges.

While refuge plays a critical role in supporting those victims at high risk of serious harm, we have deliberately kept our definition of “accommodation-based” wide to include the full range of safe accommodation in which victims and their children may require support. This will help local areas meet the support needs of diverse groups of victims and their children and those at lower and medium risk to prevent their needs escalating.

Having reviewed the current system and listened to the views of expert stakeholders, I am today proposing new, local authority-led arrangements for delivering support to victims of domestic abuse and their children in accommodation-based services in England.

Our proposals would place a new statutory duty on upper-tier local authorities—county councils, metropolitan and unitary authorities and, in the case of London, the Greater London Authority—to convene a local partnership board for domestic abuse accommodation support services. The local partnership board should include representation from police and crime commissioners, health bodies, children’s services and housing providers, along with specialist domestic abuse service providers. The board would be required to assess need for domestic abuse services, develop domestic abuse strategies, commission services to meet the support needs of victims and their children and report progress to MHCLG.

In two-tier areas, lower-tier local authorities—city, district and borough councils and, in this instance, London boroughs—will have a significant role to play in contributing to needs assessments, strategy development, service commissioning and reporting on progress. Authorities in those areas would be subject to a statutory duty to co-operate with the local partnership board.

To support local authorities and local partnership boards to meet these new requirements, I am proposing that we should produce new statutory guidance, making our expectations clear. This new approach will be backed by funding from the Government to ensure that services are put on a sustainable, long-term footing. This will be determined through the forthcoming spending review and informed by the consultation.

I want to safeguard provision of support, clarify expectations of governance and accountability, ensure that needs assessments are undertaken, and enhance our understanding of service provision across England through monitoring and reporting. I also want to ensure that the diverse needs of all victims and their children are met, including those with protected characteristics.

This is part of a wider government drive to tackle domestic abuse and end this pernicious crime for good. Our domestic abuse Bill, published in January this year, is the most comprehensive package ever to tackle domestic abuse. We have also brought in a new offence to capture coercive and controlling behaviour, and new domestic abuse protection orders will allow police and courts to intervene earlier.

It is our duty to ensure that victims and survivors can receive help by providing the support they need to transform their lives and move to safety and independence. Through this consultation, I want to hear views on our proposals from victims and survivors, service providers, local authorities, housing providers and other public agencies, as well as professionals who support victims and children every day.

I believe that my announcement today will provide much-needed help to ensure that more victims and their families better overcome their experiences and move on to live full and independent lives. The consultation will run from today until 2 August 2019. A copy of the consultation document will be placed in the House Library”.

My Lords, that concludes the Statement.

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Burt of Solihull (LD)]

My Lords, I add my welcome to this Statement and declare my interest as a patron of a refuge in Birmingham. Local authorities will now have a legal duty to provide secure homes for the victims of domestic abuse. It is absolutely right that the Government are taking this step to end the postcode lottery of the wide disparity in provision depending on where a victim lives.

The Government are anticipating that local authorities will require an extra £90 million to buy the beds and space needed. This is to cover BAME, LGBT+ and disabled people, women, children and men. Does the Minister believe that this is enough when 60% of women are currently being turned away from refuges—this, as the noble Lord, Lord Kennedy, mentioned, in a country where local authorities will have seen their budgets shrink by £8 billion by 2025? Does the Minister anticipate that other budgets for non-statutory projects will be raided to pay for this support or can he confirm that this money will be additional and ring-fenced?

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord and the noble Baroness for their comments. I have to say that it seemed a little as though there has been a desperate search to find some bad news. I would say that this is extremely good news and it is worth putting on the record that this is the first time that we have ever looked at having a statutory duty on such an important area as well as the domestic abuse Bill. Yes, there are some issues, so let me try to deal with those which have been raised.

First, of course we need proper funding but it is inappropriate to come up with a precise figure at this stage. The £90 million per annum referred to by the noble Baroness was mentioned by the Secretary of State, but we need to look at the consultation before we can come up with a hard and fast figure, which obviously will be informed by the spending review. I think that it would be unwise to come up with a definitive figure at this stage, but this certainly needs to be properly resourced, and it is on that basis that we are seeking to end the postcode lottery by having appropriate provision in every area of the country. That will ensure that we will not have cover for domestic abuse in just one particular area. The funding needs to take care of specialist services. Mention was made of LGBT, Roma and Travellers, and of course it is appropriate that we have cover for the BAME community. It is worth noting that Imkaan, the specialist provider in the area, rightly welcomes what we are doing.

The detailed consultation will look at how we can ensure that we make properly funded provision across the country on a consistent basis. The noble Lord, Lord Kennedy, referred to the importance of early intervention. Certainly, prevention is better than cure and we need to look at this. Again, that is what the system is designed to ensure. Partnership working through local partnership boards will be key to this. The noble Lord also asked if this would involve police officers. Certainly it will; indeed, they are central to it, along with health professionals. Through the involvement of police and crime commissioners, specialist agencies and professionals, we can ensure that we go forward with the appropriate cover for what is a very serious issue, given that there are 2 million victims every year. While they are twice as likely to be women, obviously it means that a significant number of men are victims as well. All of this needs to be taken care of and that is why we are carrying out the consultation until early August.

[Baroness Butler-Sloss (CB)]

My Lords, I chair a commission on forced marriage. Will the Minister keep in mind that victims of forced marriage are often victims of domestic abuse? Many are extremely young and sometimes need rather better accommodation than the refuges provided—when they are provided—for victims of domestic abuse. They are also victims of domestic abuse, but in forced marriage.

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

The noble and learned Baroness is absolutely right to make that cautionary point about forced marriage. These will often be members of BAME communities, so we hope that will be catered for additionally, but she is right about the importance of ensuring there is appropriate provision here. Again, this perhaps relates to the broad definition of domestic abuse that will be in the Bill, which will include coercive and controlling behaviour.

[Lord Pickles (Con)]

My Lords, does my noble friend the Minister accept that one criterion for the success of these new measures is that it is the aggressor—the one committing the domestic abuse—who should be excluded from accommodation? Early intervention means that people subject to domestic abuse have a right to stay in their house and to protection. Will the Minister outline this change and ensure that early intervention becomes the norm?

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, I thank my noble friend for that point. I very much agree that we must ensure that the aggressor—the controller, the person perpetrating the domestic abuse—is appropriately excluded from the home if that is what the domestic abuse victim wants, as it often is. We have sought through guidance to take care of that issue in advance of this Statement. It will often be appropriate for the domestic abuse victim to stay in the home. It is not always appropriate for them to go to a refuge; that is often not what they want.

[Baroness Lister of Burtersett (Lab)]

My Lords, I welcome this Statement, which is good news, and the Prime Minister’s pledge—already cited by my noble friend—that:

“Whoever you are, wherever you live and whatever the abuse you face, you will have access to the services you need to be safe”.


Can the Minister give an assurance that this means that no domestic abuse survivor will be denied help because of the rule about making no recourse to public funds, which is of such concern to organisations in the sector? The implication of the consultation document is that they will still be denied access to the services they need, in contravention of the Istanbul convention—which, as we heard earlier, we are finally going to ratify.

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, I first thank the noble Baroness. I know she has done a tremendous amount of work in this area; indeed, we have worked together on some aspects of domestic abuse coverage and on ensuring that it is dealt with. I agree with her that the important point about this consultation on the action we propose to take is that any victim of domestic abuse—this will often include children, who, of course, are victims too—will be covered by this. This is the essence of what we seek to do, so I give her that assurance and encourage professionals and others to look at all the cases—there are many complex cases that will need taking care of in the statutory provisions—so that when we look at the consultation over the summer we will know that every area has been covered.

[Baroness Hussein-Ece (LD)]

My Lords, I also welcome the Statement, the pledge from the Prime Minister and all the work that has gone into the consultation on the domestic abuse Bill. It is an important step forward. I have dealt with domestic violence cases over many years with women from many different communities. Recently I was asked to help a young woman in Islington, where I live, who was facing serious threats of violence from her ex-partner. She was forced to flee with two small children. Three months later, she is still waiting for permanent accommodation, her children have had to go from school to school and she has had to go from house to house, because there was a lack of refuge beds when she had to flee her home. As the Minister will appreciate, this is very distressing. I was also in touch with the police safeguarding officer dealing with her case, and it was apparent to me that the police could not do as much as they should about this man—who is scary and very dangerous—because they simply did not have the resources. I spoke to the safeguarding officer a number of times, asking why someone who was out on bail and restricted from going to the family home or the parents’ home was routinely doing that, and they could not do anything about it.

Local authorities have an important role, but we must ensure that the safeguarding officers and the police have the resources to ensure that their role in upholding this exclusion is in place as well. Without the police working with the local authority and other agencies, people will, sadly, be under threat and will not get the safeguarding they need.

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

The noble Baroness makes an important point. In seeking to deal with it, I congratulate all those victims of domestic violence who step forward to help others. There are many in refuges up and down the country. It is important to the victims of domestic abuse to have those examples of people who have come through it. I make that point at the outset.

The noble Baroness is right that there are often safeguarding issues, which is why we are particularly keen to have this partnership approach whereby police and crime commissioners and police forces are represented as well as emergency services and health services so that we can look at this in the round. She is right that this is not just a question of protecting the victim and children, although that is vital, but of dealing with the perpetrator. It is no good dealing with one and not the other, particularly when we know where the person is. That should be a high priority.

[Baroness Donaghy (Lab)]

My Lords, I very much welcome the Statement and the commitment of the Prime Minister and the Minister to this subject. Is there any intention to have national oversight on this? One complication of setting up refuges, possibly on local authority-based areas, is that the person escaping domestic violence sometimes wants to go a lot further than the boundary of that local authority to ensure their safety and that of their family. There is a lot of cross-border activity, which also possibly reflects on the commitment of a particular local authority when the person concerned has moved away to another authority for refuge. Some kind of oversight mechanism would be important to take account of the cross-border activity, if I may call it that.

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness for her kind comments. She is, as always, on the money. Paragraphs 70 to 72 of the consultation are headed “National Oversight” and make provision for a ministerial-led steering group to evaluate progress and understand how delivery of support to victims and their children is proceeding. We very much agree with that. National oversight is important if we seek to do away with the postcode lottery and ensure that we have a national system.

[Lord Paddick (LD)]

My Lords, while what the Minister said is welcome, will he confirm that this will not just be about accommodation? Refuges used to provide counselling and other forms of support to victims but, because of central government cuts, many local authorities now provide the bare minimum of accommodation only, if that—often contracted out to the private sector. Will the Government fund restoration of these vital additional services?

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, the noble Lord will have heard me say that it is indeed across the piece. Accommodation-based services are obviously central, essential and probably more costly than much of the service that is needed. But additionally we need to do other things, as we do now. There are helplines and training, and there is care for particular kinds of victims, such as those who are deaf or disabled. We need to do all that. The noble Lord is right that this is not just about accommodation-based services. He will be reassured by the consultation—which is very detailed, involving a survey and lots of questions—that we are seeking to take care of those essential elements that he mentioned as well.

[Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede (Lab)]

My Lords, I too welcome this announcement. I remind the House that I sit as a magistrate: I am the domestic abuse lead at Westminster Magistrates’ Court and I regularly deal with these matters.

As the noble Baroness, Lady Burt, said, 60% of referrals to refuges were turned away. On my figures, that adds up to 21,000 in 2018 or 2017. My question to the Minister is about monitoring how effectively these refuges are being used. We have heard about national oversight: will that include people being turned away, the reasons they are turned away and whether categories of people who are inappropriate to go into particular refuges are also monitored? As the Minister will be aware, a wide range of people who are victims of domestic abuse need to be found accommodation appropriate to their needs.

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord for what he does in an important area of activity and an important area geographically. He is right that we need continuing oversight to make sure that we continue to deliver. It is anticipated that the local partnership boards, which will be responsible for delivering the statutory duty locally, will make annual reports and be held to account. As one would expect, accountability is a key part of the consultation. It runs through the consultation document that accountability is extremely important. To do this effectively we must ensure that it is working not only locally but nationally. Another key feature, without going through it in detail, is the need to work across local authority borders. Consideration will be given to the devolved areas—this issue is essentially devolved in Scotland and Wales—to make sure that we are joined up at the borders. However, effectively, there is no border, so we need to make sure that we have effective provision in those areas as well,

[Baroness Lister of Burtersett]

My Lords, perhaps I may have another go. The noble Baroness, Lady Burt, asked about ring-fencing and I do not think the Minister answered. Yesterday the Secretary of State said:

“I remain open-minded about how we look at this as the consultation develops”.—[Official Report, Commons, 13/5/19; col. 41.]


From my quick read of the consultation document, I cannot see any question about ring-fencing. If I am right, can the Minister assure us that the Government will consult on whether this money should be ring-fenced? I do not expect an answer now. However, if the money is not ring-fenced, hard-pressed authorities will inevitably be tempted to use the money in other underresourced areas.

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

The noble Baroness is right that the Secretary of State, in answering questions in the other place, indicated that he is open-minded on this issue. Obviously, we will seek to understand what people want. From memory, I think question 29 in the consultation would perhaps allow something on that but the noble Baroness is probably right that there is nothing specific on this issue and it will be a matter for the spending review. It is an important consideration but I come back to the fact that there is a statutory duty and, to deliver it, the money will have to be spent. However, we are open-minded and we have certainly not ruled it out.

Social Housing: Older People

Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth Excerpts

Thursday 9th May 2019 Lords Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Ministry of Housing, Communities and Local Government and Wales Office (Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth) (Con)]

My Lords, I congratulate the noble Lord on so ably stepping into the breach. The Government have made £9 billion available through the affordable homes programme to March 2022 to deliver new affordable homes of a range of tenures, including social rent and supported housing. Supported housing, including sheltered housing, plays a vital role in the lives of the most vulnerable, including older people. Since 2011, we have delivered 34,000 units of specialist and other supported housing for disabled, vulnerable and older people.

[Lord Kennedy of Southwark]

My Lords, what plans do the Government have to support calls for the lifetime homes standard to be mandatory for at least some, if not all, social housing built in future? That would enable people to stay in their homes longer, help them to remain independent and save money on future aids and adaptions.

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, the noble Lord is right to concentrate on that standard. He will know that Part M of the building regulations is about to be reviewed; we have touched on it previously. We very much hope that will be tightened for its requirements for disabled and older people. That will help to inform the sort of progress that we are all keen to make.

[Lord Shipley (LD)]

My Lords, in February last year—15 months ago—the Communities and Local Government Select Committee reported on its inquiry into housing for older people. It had 41 recommendations. Eight months ago, in September 2018, the Government’s response was published. It left many questions unanswered, but it did say this:

“We have been clear that we will consider housing as we develop proposals for the future of the social care system in the green paper to be published in the autumn”.


The two areas of social care and housing are clearly linked. The Green Paper was not published and there is no sign of it. Does the Minister accept the need to respond properly to the committee’s recommendations, and that the failure to publish the Green Paper is turning into a major failure of public policy?

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, the noble Lord is right about the importance of the Select Committee’s recommendations, many of which we are taking forward. He will know that we have ensured that approximately 22,000 specific homes since 2011 have been geared towards older people. We have committed £400 million in the spending review to delivering specialist affordable homes for the vulnerable, elderly and those with disability. We are bringing the Green Paper forward, but he is absolutely right that it is important.

[Baroness Greengross (CB)]

My Lords, I recently served on the ad hoc Select Committee on intergenerational fairness. It published its report two weeks ago. Although I know that the Government have not yet responded formally to the committee’s recommendations, the Minister will be aware of those we made on housing, many of which might help to increase the housing supply, especially of social housing. For instance, there is the presumption that local authorities be given priority to develop for housing any publicly owned land in their area, and the specific recommendation that retirement communities that provide extra care be designated as class C2—the same as care homes—to encourage their development. That issue is very close to the heart of the Associated Retirement Community Operators, ARCO, with which I work and for which I am proud to be patron. Will these recommendations be acted on, and quickly? They are very important.

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness for what she does on behalf of older people, specifically on intergenerational fairness. I remember the work we did together on the Neighbourhood Planning Act to ensure that, for the first time ever, older people are recognised in the National Planning Policy Framework. She is absolutely right about the importance of this. In fact, pensioners as a class have never been better off than they are the moment, but there are specific needs relating to housing. I mentioned Part M and the importance of delivering more specific homes. We are carrying that forward.

[Baroness Andrews (Lab)]

Is the Minister aware of the All-Party Group on Housing and Care for Older People, very ably chaired by the noble Lord, Lord Best, who cannot be in his place this morning? Is he also aware that in the next 20 years, by 2041, about 30% of older people will be in the private rented sector? This will be Generation Rent, who will not be able to afford to pay rent when they retire. What plans do his Government—and his department in particular—have to deal with that? We need to plan for that crisis now.

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, the noble Baroness is right: the private rented sector has grown massively across all age groups. There is nothing inherently wrong in that; it was slightly implicit in the question that it was undesirable. Oh, she shakes her head—I misunderstood. There are particular concerns. As she will know, we have moved on a number of factors in relation to the private rented sector across the board to ensure fairness on rents, evictions, secure tenancies, tenant fees and so on. She is right to highlight this. I assure her that we will carry things forward.

[Baroness Boycott (CB)]

My Lords, while everyone would welcome a housebuilding programme, can the Minister assure the House that all these new houses will be built to be as carbon neutral as possible, given the current state of the climate emergency?

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, the climate change dimension is of interest to me, and the noble Baroness is right to highlight it. Modern methods of construction in particular will help us to deliver on that. Many companies are developing modern methods of construction and housing which are carbon neutral, and receive funding through BEIS to help with that programme.

[Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)]

Is my noble friend aware that 7,000 high-quality new homes are being built per day in the Republic of India—which, admittedly, is larger than us and probably quite soon will be richer than us as well? Would he concede that new construction technology has a major part to play in adequate and swift provision of social housing for all ages?

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, I was unaware of that statistic, but certainly India is developing incredibly quickly on a number of technological fronts, so I am not totally surprised. My noble friend is absolutely right about the importance of ensuring that housing delivery is carbon neutral and that modern methods of construction enable us to move very quickly. We are doing so across a range of areas. Last week, I saw modern of methods of construction providing help for the homeless. It is pleasing to see that beginning to happen across all sectors; it cannot happen too quickly.

Architects Act 1997 (Swiss Qualifications) (Amendment) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019

Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth Excerpts

Wednesday 8th May 2019 Lords Chamber

Moved by

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

That the Regulations laid before the House on 5 April be approved.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Ministry of Housing, Communities and Local Government and Wales Office (Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth) (Con)]

My Lords, the regulations are part of the Government’s programme of legislation to ensure that, if the UK leaves the EU without a deal and an implementation period, there continues to be a functioning legislative and regulatory regime.

The only date on which a no-deal exit could happen is 31 October. Although the United Kingdom Parliament has rejected leaving without a deal multiple times, this remains the legal default at the end of the extension period. As a responsible Government, we have been preparing to minimise any disruption in the event of no deal for more than two years. On 28 March, we made legislation amending the Architects Act 1997 to continue to recognise EEA architect qualifications in a no-deal scenario. The statutory instrument extends those provisions to Swiss architect qualifications and is legally necessary.

The regulations are made using powers in the European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018 to fix legal deficiencies in retained EU law to reflect that the UK will no longer be an EU member state after exit day. The regulations also use powers in the European Communities Act 1972 to implement EU legislation into domestic legislation—powers that are available only as long as the United Kingdom remains a member state.

As stated previously, the architectural sector is a global leader and plays a significant role in the British economy, with an export surplus of £437 million in 2015 and involvement in key global projects such as the Guangzhou Opera House in China and the Supreme Court of Singapore. This is a position that we will want to protect and enhance over the coming years by ensuring that UK architect businesses continue to have access to the brightest and best talent available.

Let me start by providing some context and background to these regulations, including a description of our previous statutory instrument amending the Architects Act in a no-deal scenario; that is, the Architects Act 1997 (Amendment) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019, which I will refer to as the 2019 regulations. As I previously explained on 25 March in the debate on the 2019 regulations, the mutual recognition of professional qualifications directive enables the recognition of qualifications obtained in another member state. This applies to EEA and Swiss nationals and includes the recognition of suitably qualified architects. This is a reciprocal arrangement, allowing UK and other EEA or Swiss nationals the opportunity to easily register to practise across Europe and Switzerland, and allows UK practices to recruit the best European and Swiss talent.

The Architects Act 1997 sets out the specific procedures for registering architects in the UK. The recognition of qualifications of EEA and Swiss applicants is carried out by the competent authority, the Architects Registration Board, an arm’s-length body of my department. There are currently three routes to recognition for an EEA or Swiss architect wishing to register in the UK. The main route to recognition in the UK for an EEA or Swiss national architect is through an “automatic recognition” system. To qualify for automatic recognition, an EEA or Swiss national needs to meet three tests. They must have an approved qualification, which means one listed in annexe V of the EU’s mutual recognition of professional qualifications directive. They need access to the profession of architect in an EEA member state or Switzerland, and a statement from their home competent authority confirming that they are fit to practise.

A second route, known as “general systems”, provides for recognition for EEA or Swiss nationals who do not have an approved qualification. The applicant is offered compensation measures, such as the opportunity to undertake additional training to make up any differences in qualification. This is a long and costly process which on average only four people across all these countries pursue annually. The third route facilitates the temporary or occasional provision of service. This allows EEA or Swiss professionals to work in the UK in a regulated profession on a temporary basis while remaining established in their home state. Typically, fewer than 20 EEA and Swiss architects pursue this option at any one time.

If the UK leaves the EU without a deal, the mutual recognition of professional qualifications directive will no longer apply in the UK. The 2019 regulations, which were made on 28 March, ensure that UK architect practices can continue to recruit the best European talent and maintain their global reputation as world leaders by preserving the main route to recognition. The mutual recognition of professional qualifications directive was extended by what is commonly referred to as the free movement of persons agreement between EU member states and Switzerland, allowing Swiss nationals to benefit from the recognition routes described. Due to the requirement of the European Communities Act powers to include Swiss qualifications, which exist only as long as the UK is a member state, we assessed that there was a substantial risk that all EEA-qualified architects wishing to register in the UK would be without legislative cover if the 2019 regulations were not made before 29 March. However, the extension to exit day has allowed us extra time to lay legislation to provide parity between EEA and Swiss-qualified architects in a no-deal scenario, as exists currently.

The policy intention is to provide the sector with confidence that all applicants can register in the same way after exit day as currently. This is the approach favoured by the sector, which recognises the skills brought by EEA and Swiss architects as contributing positively to the UK’s reputation as a world leader in architecture. The approach of continued recognition also received support in debates for the 2019 regulations. The instrument allows applications made before exit day to be concluded under the current system as far as possible. For future applications, it will freeze the current list of approved qualifications in the EU’s mutual recognition of professional qualifications directive. As a result, after EU exit in a no-deal scenario, an individual holding an approved EEA or Swiss qualification will be able to join the UK register of architects if they have access to the profession of architect in their home state. Through this legislation, this process will be open to anyone with a Swiss qualification and access to the profession in Switzerland, regardless of their citizenship.

We will remove general systems as a route to registration, as this is a long and costly process and is not utilised often. It places significant, unnecessary burden on individuals and the Architects Registration Board. Applicants without an approved qualification will therefore be able to register via the route utilised currently by third-country nationals.

This instrument does not change any part of the 2019 regulations; it simply extends the provisions to include Swiss qualifications. Although the number of Swiss architects registering in the United Kingdom is low—only 77 over the last 10 years, less than 1% of total recognition decisions via this route—we felt it was imperative to preserve the rights that Swiss-qualified architects currently enjoy and to provide parity between EEA and Swiss-qualified architects.

In summary, these regulations—alongside those made on 28 March—serve a very specific purpose: to prioritise stability and certainty if the United Kingdom leaves the EU without a deal or an implementation period by ensuring that EEA and Swiss-qualified architects can continue to register and practise in the United Kingdom. These regulations ensure that the United Kingdom continues to have access to Swiss talent after we have left the EU, thereby helping to maintain the UK’s reputation as a global leader in architectural services. Thereafter, they provide a stable basis for Parliament to change the law where it is in the United Kingdom’s best interests to do so.

In conclusion, this instrument is necessary to ensure that the Architects Act continues to function appropriately if the UK leaves the EU without a deal and an implementation period. I hope colleagues will join me in supporting the regulations; I commend them to the House.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Kennedy of Southwark (Lab Co-op)]

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Bourne, for explaining to us the purpose of the regulations before us today. I do not intend to detain the House for very long, and I am very happy to support the regulations as far as they go. However, I agree with the noble Lord, Lord Stunell, that there are many other pressing issues that he and I are keen to get on with. There are many issues—in the department of the noble Lord, Lord Bourne, and in others—that we desperately need to get on to. Having said that, I have no particular questions for the noble Lord on the regulations before us. As far as they go, I am content with them.

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, I thank the noble Lords who have responded to this debate. The noble Lord, Lord Stunell, took quite a long while to tell us that he thinks we are wasting our time dealing with this; that was uncharacteristically churlish of him, if I may say so. These regulations are important. This affects only about seven people a year in Switzerland, but it is important that we recognise that there is considerable interest in the United Kingdom in making sure we regularise this position. I am not going to enter into the pantomime knockabout of Brexit. On behalf of my department, I am doing what is responsible for an important sector of the UK economy. We do not want a no-deal scenario, as the noble Lord knows. However, if, God forbid, that happened, and we had not protected these Swiss architects, I would feel very guilty.

The noble Lord, Lord Stunell, asked why we are not spending time on fire safety. As a Government, and in my department, we have spent an awful lot of time on that. We are in the process of implementing the Hackitt review—I make no apologies for that—and we answer questions on it and debate it. He mentioned homelessness. On Friday, we announced extra money for homelessness, and I answered a Question on it on Thursday. He mentioned climate change. My noble friend Lord Henley, who is present, answered a Question on that yesterday. We are, quite rightly, always answering questions in these very important areas. In spending a short time on this issue, we are not detracting from the importance of those others. We are doing something rather important.

I thank the noble Lord, Lord Kennedy, for his positive response and responsible position. We need to ensure that architects are able to act, and this will be mutually in our interest too: British architects will be able to operate in the EEA countries and in Switzerland.

We have, I think, not taken too long on this important legislation. I beg to move.

Motion agreed.

Yorkshire: Devolution

Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth Excerpts

Tuesday 7th May 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Kirkhope of Harrogate]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what plans they have to proceed with a devolution process for Yorkshire which takes into account (1) rural and urban interests, and (2) the services and industrial sectors, and reunites the historic Yorkshire Ridings.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Ministry of Housing, Communities and Local Government and Wales Office (Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth) (Con)]

My Lords, the Government have responded to the leaders of the Sheffield City Region, indicating that they are ready to progress their deal along the lines they have proposed and, recognising the strength of the Yorkshire identity, to consider a localist approach to devolution elsewhere across Yorkshire.

[Lord Kirkhope of Harrogate (Con)]

My Lords, I declare my interest as a co-chair of the All-Party Parliamentary Group for One Yorkshire—alternatively, God’s own country. Although I am delighted that at last there is progress on devolution, I hope my noble friend will acknowledge that the economy of Yorkshire is equivalent to that of Scotland, and that 75% of those who reside in Yorkshire identify with that enormously important brand, as do all our national and international contacts. Therefore, there should be no delay in allowing One Yorkshire to proceed, even if it does so in parallel with the Sheffield City Region.

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, I thank my noble friend for all he does in relation to matters Yorkshire, and congratulate Yorkshire on a very successful Tour de Yorkshire; I am sure the whole House would want to do so. The women’s section was won by Marianne Vos of the Netherlands, the men’s section by Chris Lawless of the United Kingdom—ironically, a Lancastrian.

We are very pleased with the progress being made in relation to Sheffield. My right honourable friend the Secretary of State has written to the Sheffield City Region leaders indicating that we are prepared to allow councils that do not see their future in that city region to join an alternative, wider Yorkshire devolution group after 2022—subject to satisfying the usual tests.

[Lord Wallace of Saltaire (LD)]

My Lords, is the Minister aware that when Jake Berry, Minister for the Northern Powerhouse, gave a very discouraging response at the One Yorkshire conference in Leeds last month, he strongly preferred a four sub-region answer for Yorkshire, based on three cities and North Yorkshire? He called North Yorkshire a “rural powerhouse” but was unable to explain what he meant. Perhaps the Minister here will be able to. Perhaps he could also explain what he means by a “localist approach”. We want a regional, county approach, not a localist approach.

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, in relation to the comments made by my right honourable friend in the other place, I am sure that all parts of Yorkshire are powerhouses, and I am sure he meant that every part of Yorkshire packs a powerful punch. The noble Lord will understand that we are pleased with the progress being made in relation to the Sheffield City Region and, as I said, are very much up for looking at other parts of Yorkshire. Officials are taking that forward and will be meeting people throughout Yorkshire to discuss it.

[Lord Grocott (Lab)]

My Lords, whatever happens in respect of developments in Yorkshire, does the Minister not agree that we are approaching, or perhaps have even arrived at, a situation in which the structure of local government in this country is unbelievably complex and unintelligible to vast numbers of people—including, I dare say, a good few of us in this House. We have some cities with mayors, some without; we have different powers in different areas; we have regional government in certain places and not in others. So just as a start towards intelligibility, could the Minister place in the Library, on one sheet of A4, the types of local authorities that currently exist, the frequency of elections therein and the powers that they individually exercise?

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, the noble Lord is always shining a light on parts of the British constitution to indicate their idiosyncrasies, which may well be true of local government as well. It is more whether it works than whether it can be deconstructed in any meaningful way that is important. As I have indicated, we are progressing the position in Sheffield— which I am sure all parts of the House welcome—and we are committed to issuing a Statement on the framework of devolution in England within the timescale the Select Committee has asked for, which I am sure the noble Lord will welcome. We are taking things forward in a very meaningful way, and the latest developments in Sheffield should please us all.

[Lord Newby (LD)]

My Lords, I speak as a resident of the North Yorkshire powerhouse. The Minister says that the Government are taking things forward in a meaningful way. They are not actually taking things forward in respect of any part of Yorkshire whatever, bar Sheffield. On what basis do the Government feel that they can continue simply to turn down the expressed wishes of virtually every local authority in Yorkshire for a One Yorkshire deal?

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, as I have indicated to the House, we are looking at the prospects and possibilities for all of Yorkshire. Discussions are going on with officials about the way forward. I am sure the noble Lord will welcome what has happened in Sheffield, as I know many other Members will. That is very welcome and it is within the context of looking at the wider Yorkshire position that we are moving things forward, which is to be welcomed.

[Lord Kennedy of Southwark (Lab Co-op)]

My Lords, can I confirm that the Minister is saying that at the end of the term for South Yorkshire, if the authorities want to leave that arrangement they can go into another arrangement in Yorkshire and that the Government will not stand in their way?

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, I am very happy to confirm that that is the case. If authorities were to leave the Sheffield City Region—the two authorities that have previously had difficulties with that arrangement, say—the city region would carry on with the remaining two. It would still be a viable entity, but we are running ahead of ourselves. There is a commitment within the agreement whose details we are now looking at. We are making progress on that to ensure that it carries on until at least 2022.

[Lord Hamilton of Epsom (Con)]

Further to the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Grocott, surely many different areas of this country have different characteristics and therefore devolution should take different forms in different areas?

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, as always, my noble friend puts it extremely well. That is the case: we do not impose a blueprint on every part of the country. The devolution arrangements that exist for the metro mayors differ from each other. That is to be welcomed as they are in different areas with different needs.