Food and Feed (Miscellaneous Amendments) Regulations 2022

Lord Markham Excerpts

Tuesday 29th November 2022 Lords Chamber

Moved by

[Lord Markham]

That the draft Regulations laid before the House on 24 October be approved.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Health and Social Care (Lord Markham) (Con)]

This instrument is made under powers in the European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018. It follows on from the previous EU exit instruments in the field of food and feed safety made since 2019. The Government’s priority is to ensure that we continue to maintain the high standards of food and feed safety and consumer protection we have established. The principal changes introduced by this instrument will ensure that national and GB-wide legislation continues to operate effectively following the UK’s exit from the EU.

The purpose of this instrument is to: amend England regulations in the fields of articles in contact with food, extraction solvents and animal feed to remove cross-references to EU directives and correct other EU exit-related inoperabilities; address a range of remaining deficiencies in retained direct EU legislation in the field of food and feed safety and hygiene to ensure the continued operability of this legislation after exiting the EU; address inoperabilities that have arisen as a consequence of previous deficiency amendments made pursuant to EUWA 2018; extend the tolerance period of three withdrawn genetically modified organisms, GMOs, for a further three years, until 31 December 2025, to align with the correction of a deficiency in retained EC regulation 619/2011; and provide for a time-limited transitional period for edible insects, specific to Great Britain. This will permit qualifying edible insects to remain on the market in GB after 31 December 2023 while applications for novel food authorisation are considered by the appropriate authority.

Let me be clear that this instrument does not introduce any changes that will impact the day-to-day operation of food and feed businesses, nor does it introduce any new regulatory burden. The essence of existing legislation is unchanged.

It is important to note that the devolved Governments have some shared and devolved legislative responsibilities in relation to food law. Both Scotland and Wales have provided their consent for the instrument. Amendments brought forward by the instrument do not apply to Northern Ireland. In accordance with the Northern Ireland protocol, EU regulations will continue to apply. However, the Northern Ireland Department of Health has been briefed. We have engaged positively with the devolved Governments throughout the development of the instrument, and I take this opportunity to note that their ongoing engagement has been warmly welcomed.

I take the opportunity to assure noble Lords that the overarching aim of these regulations is to provide continuity for business and to ensure that high standards of safety and quality for food and feed regulation will continue across the UK. The changes do not affect the essence of existing legislation. They address a range of deficiencies in retained direct EU legislation on food contact materials, extraction solvents and animal feed arising from EU exit. They will ensure that appropriate legislative provision is in place to extend the transitional period for the trace presence of withdrawn GMOs in food and feed. Finally, they will provide a time-limited transitional period for edible insects to remain on the market in GB.

Having effective and functional law in this area is key to ensuring that the high standards of food safety and consumer protection we enjoy in this country are maintained in the immediate and long term. I ask noble Lords to support the amendments proposed in this instrument to ensure the continuation of effective food and feed safety and public health controls. I commend the regulations to the House.

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Merron (Lab)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for introducing the regulations and the thinking behind them. I accept the assurances that he has given. We on these Benches welcome the regulations, which are about trying to correct the drafting errors and inconsistencies that have inevitably emerged. I say that with no criticism; this is a complex area, and there is a need to tidy up regulations following exit from the European Union.

It is perhaps timely to take this opportunity to praise the work of the Food Standards Agency, and to note that it is one of the strange things about the changes introduced by the Government that Health Ministers now find themselves talking about animal feed. I am sure the Minister is delighted to do so, and I myself have certainly learned a lot today in preparation.

I turn to the regulations. The instrument generally maintains existing regulations and does not introduce new requirements, exactly as the Minister has said. I note that no concerns were raised by the Joint Committee on Statutory Instruments or the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee, so I am sure that is cause for celebration on the Government Benches.

We in this country have a good food safety system, and this SI, as others may do, simply tries to ensure that that continues. The problem is of course that the world did not stop when it came to the implementation period completion day. As paragraph 7.13 of the Explanatory Memorandum tactfully puts it, “certain difficulties” emerge,

“especially in relation to the approval of new, or amendment of currently authorised, substances.”

Could the Minister help by elaborating on the difficulties that are posed and any potential costs? What happens with regard to trade when we operate to different standards from those of our near neighbours? The SI addresses the administrative challenge but does not seek to solve the problem.

Similarly, where the review process is described in paragraph 7.15, it would be helpful if the Minister could clarify the circumstances in which the Food Standards Agency will be required to review the operation and effect of the regulations. If, for example, a new extraction solvent is approved in the EU, does that automatically trigger a review? Will the Food Standards Agency be required to undertake additional processes to deliver on that? If so, has an assessment been done of whether the FSA has the capacity to undertake such duties, or can the Minister advise whether the FSA will be getting additional resources?

There is the issue of the “Do Not Eat” pictograph, which is referenced in paragraph 7.22. This states that we cannot use it because of “uncertainty” over the intellectual property rights applying to the ownership of the picture, which seems a bit strange because there must be similar cases of artwork where such provenance is uncertain. Was it asked whether we could use it, and was any uncertainty flagged up at the time? How much would a licence have cost? It is probably right to say that it seems a strange way to proceed if we cannot agree on joint use of an existing symbol to promote food safety. That suggests some problems on which the Minister may wish to comment.

I want also to reference the need to reinstate powers to extend the transitional period for the trace presence of withdrawn genetically modified organisms. There is considerable interest in genetic modification, as we know, and some concern that rules on imported products are inconsistent with rules governing domestic production. Can the Minister say a little about the scale of the issue? For example, just how much oilseed rape is there with traces of the withdrawn GM products referenced in this case?

If the Minister is not able to answer the detail of the points that I have raised, I will be pleased to hear from him in writing. We from these Benches certainly welcome the statutory instrument, and thank him and his team for their efforts.

[Lord Markham (Con)]

My Lords, it is my duty to close this important debate. Your Lordships perform an essential role in scrutinising the measures we have put forward today, and I thank all noble Lords for their contributions. Let me turn, as best I can, to answering some of the points raised. Where I do not quite succeed, I will gladly follow up in writing.

First, my noble friend Lady McIntosh of Pickering asked for an explanation about the pictograph. My understanding is that it is a picture which does not depend on a specific language to understand it. On what happens regarding the IP rights behind it, my understanding—again, I will confirm this—is that a number of questions were asked as to the ownership of those rights. The IP ownership was unclear, so the process for even trying to license it was not clear. That was the issue at hand, but I will come back with further detail on it.

Turning to the other questions, my noble friend Lady McIntosh asked how the SI will affect the retained EU law Bill. The Food Standards Agency is carefully considering the scope of the powers in the retained EU law Bill and whether they can be used to deliver a better, bespoke British system of food safety. Those will all be part of what we go through in the coming weeks and months.

On the labelling of GM and other foods, there are regulations requiring mandatory measures in the traceability and labelling of GM products. This is seen as necessary to inform a consumer about their choice whether to buy and eat GM food, so that will take place in all these cases. The noble Baroness, Lady Merron, asked about the level. My understanding is that it is a minor trace level, consistent with what exists today, but, again, I will follow up on the detail of that. We have been working with the FSA in these areas, which feels that it is in a position to answer and regulate in this area.

Perhaps my favourite question related to edible insects; I only wish I had known about this before “I’m a Celebrity… Get Me Out of Here!” They are apparently for human consumption. I can write on this if noble Lords let me know whether they would like the Latin or the English version, but they are apparently: the lesser mealworm, the house cricket, the yellow mealworm, the banded or decorated cricket, the bird grasshopper or desert locust, the migratory locust, and the black soldier fly. I will not try to read the Latin out for each of those, but I will happily put them down in writing.

I was asked why this could not be included in the precision breeding Bill. The wider question of the future of precision breeding and gene editing is not considered by this SI and would be a matter for the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs. For now, the commercial cultivation of gene-edited plants and any food products derived from them will still need to be authorised in accordance with existing GMO rules.

On the question of the noble Baroness, Lady Bakewell of Hardington Mandeville, on safety going forward, as I said, our approach to food safety is and always will be underpinned by three principles: that UK food remains safe and what it says it is; that the high standard of food safety and consumer protection that we enjoy in this country is maintained; and that, following our exit from the EU, a robust and effective regulatory regime is in place, which means that business can continue as normal.

I hope that I have answered the detailed questions. Like the noble Baroness, Lady Merron, I did not expect to need to understand this as part of my brief, but it is part of the rich variety of my job. I thank noble Lords for their questions and their support, generally, for our proposals. To reiterate: these regulations are critical to ensure that the UK consumer continues to enjoy the high standards of safety and quality provided by UK food and feed regulations. This instrument makes no changes to policy or to how food and feed businesses are regulated, and it is limited to necessary amendments to ensure that.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

I press my noble friend on what the implementing authority will be.

[Lord Markham (Con)]

I apologise; I will definitely need to come back in writing on this, but my understanding is that, at a local level, it will be local authorities. I am grateful for noble Lords’ contributions and the sincerity of their views.

Motion agreed.

Adult Social Care

Lord Markham Excerpts

Thursday 24th November 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Scriven (LD)]

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper, and in so doing, I draw the attention of the House to my interests in the register.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Health and Social Care (Lord Markham) (Con)]

The Government have noted the findings in the report. Our priority is for everyone who is entitled to adult social care services to get the right support they need, at the right time and in the right place. The Government recognise the immediate pressures adult social care is facing, which is why the Chancellor has announced up to £2.8 billion of additional funding in 2023-24 and £4.7 billion in 2024-25.

[Lord Scriven (LD)]

My Lords, the extra money is to be welcomed, but two years’ extra funding is not a viable and sustainable response to the problems facing the social care system. Does the Minister agree with the Conservative chair of the LGA Community Wellbeing Board, Councillor David Fothergill, who says:

“Adult social care will remain in a crisis state until a comprehensive plan is in place to fully fund the care needed”?


If he does, when will that comprehensive funded plan be forthcoming?

[Lord Markham (Con)]

I think we all agree on the vital necessity of adult social care—I think the noble Lord has heard me say it many times from this Dispatch Box—and that is what the £2.8 billion and £4.7 billion are about over the two years. The noble Lord is correct that we need to look longer-term, because the whole health service and the care of our elderly are obviously dependent on us getting this right.

[Baroness Wheeler (Lab)]

My Lords, the backlog of care assessments, estimated at 500,000 by ADASS, lies at the heart of the complaints coming through to the ombudsman. They are all about assessment delays for people and their carers, not enough funding or staffing to deliver those assessments that are agreed and failures in home care and care home support. The latest NHS figures show that 145,226 people in England have died waiting for social care over the past five years, and nearly 29,000 previous self-funders have made a new request for council social care support because they have depleted their funds. Can the Minister tell the House exactly what impact the 200,000 more care packages to be delivered in place of the two-year cap delay will have on the huge backlog of assessments and what percentage of the original money earmarked for social care this actually represents?

[Lord Markham (Con)]

I thank the noble Baroness. As mentioned, 200,000 care packages is a significant number and will make a significant impact on everything we are talking about here, and that is in conjunction with all the other measures we have put in place, including the £500 million discharge fund this year. In terms of the precise percentages of those allocations, I will quite happily commit to write on that, but I can say to your Lordships that the £4.7 billion represents a 22% increase in 2024-25. By any standards, I think that people would agree that a 22% increase is a significant amount.

[Lord Forsyth of Drumlean (Con)]

My Lords, has my noble friend read the report of this House’s Economic Affairs Committee entitled Social Care Funding: Time to End a National Scandal published some years ago? In particular, the point is made in the report that to try to fund social care by allowing for an increase in council tax is highly regressive and inequitable because the tax base of the local authorities is least where the demand is greatest.

[Lord Markham (Con)]

I have not read the report, which was published a few years ago—I will always stand up and say when I have read something and when I have not, and will not pretend to have read something that I have not. But I am aware of the issue. I was a local councillor many moons ago and am aware of the issue of the narrow tax base on which we are sometimes asking to draw, so it is a much wider question. That is why I am glad that a lot of this funding has come from central government as a down payment towards that. As I have mentioned many times, I accept that we need to find some long-term solutions in this space.

[Lord Turnberg (Lab)]

My Lords, the question of pay is very important of course, but the other element is the respect and self-respect that a professional is due. That can come only if they have a nationally recognised training programme, qualification and registration, none of which they have. Will the noble Lord think about how we might achieve that? At least that will bring more people into the profession.

[Lord Markham (Con)]

I agree with the noble Lord that we need to make this an appealing profession and, as the noble Lord says, that involves more than just pay. We know that retention is vital, so I agree that having it properly recognised professionally is the direction of travel. At the same time, I am very glad to say that, for a lot of the money we are talking about—the £2.8 billion next year, for instance—some 70% will trickle down into wages, so I am pleased that it will actually be felt in the pockets of the carers, which again will help with recruitment and retention.

[Lord Kirkhope of Harrogate (Con)]

Can my noble friend advise us what is in place from the Government to look into the necessary social care of those mental patients who have had to be discharged from institutions and elsewhere, where the history is a very poor one. I speak as a former mental health commissioner. I feel that it is very sad that the community is not able to take care of people who should not be in institutions but in the community. What are the Government doing about this?

[Lord Markham (Con)]

I thank my noble friend. I think we agree that, where care can be considered and put in place in the community, that has to be the best place to do it. These funds are not just limited to care homes. The whole reason that they are allocated through local authorities is that it allows them to put the money where it is most needed in their local area. I have to say at this point that, despite all the issues we talk about, 89% of people are satisfied with the care they receive and 64% or so are very or extremely satisfied. In the context of all this, we have to recognise that the numbers are showing us that this is a service that people are satisfied with.

[Lord Blunkett (Lab)]

My Lords, in following up the question raised by the noble Lord, Lord Forsyth, perhaps the Minister could outline to us the ratio of spend over the next two years in relation to what is being raised from council tax and what is actually coming from the Exchequer.

[Lord Markham (Con)]

Of the £2.8 billion increase next year, £1 billion is coming through the grant, with the other £1.8 billion available for the local authorities. In 2024-25, of that £4.7 billion, £1.7 billion is coming through the central grant.

[The Lord Bishop of London]

My Lords, the Archbishops’ commission on social care, which will be publishing its report next year, is also concerned about the inequitable funding when funding is raised through council tax. Can the Minister indicate how central money will reduce this inequality to accessing care and whether the Government are doing any evaluation of that?

[Lord Markham (Con)]

Obviously, the central grant is raised through general taxation and so is distributed and raised in the way we all know. We can all have a question as to what the balance should be between the two. At the same time, I think we all believe in localism and we all believe, as part of that, that local authorities are the best placed to make decisions. That means that they have some of those fundraising abilities, so they can put more funds into the area where it is required. Whether we have the balance right is something we need to keep under control, but right now the most pressing thing is putting in more money for next year and the year after, and I am very glad—and I hope the whole House will welcome—that we have committed to do that. We put our money where our mouth is to create 200,000 new care packages.

[Baroness Brinton (LD)]

My Lords, surely the most pressing thing is the emergency winter fund to help remove and reduce delayed discharges this year. The Secretary of State for Health has said that he wants to reduce the bureaucracy, so why are the rules for accessing the emergency winter fund so complex that the Health Service Journal is full of local authority and senior NHS staff saying that they do not understand why the Government are insisting on this bureaucracy?

[Lord Markham (Con)]

Believe me, I am no fan of complexity. At the same time, I want to make sure, as I am sure we all do, that the funding goes to the places of most need and is really being spent on the areas that it is being spent on. Having said that, I will take away those comments at face value and will look into the complexity because, clearly, that is in no one’s interest.

[Baroness Altmann (Con)]

My Lords, the crisis in social care has been worsening since I was advising the Dilnot commission in 2011. What plans do the Government have to improve the situation rather than watch it deteriorate? Age UK estimates that there are about 2 million elderly people needing care who are not receiving it, so 200,000 care packages are hardly going to make enough difference.

[Lord Markham (Con)]

I thank my noble friend. As the population grows older, we must look at how to cater for these areas. We have been having real-term increases year after year of 2.5%, and 22% by 2024-25 is a substantial increase by any measure. At the same time, satisfaction levels are high. Do we need to do more? Clearly, we need to keep up in this space.

Tobacco Control Plan

Lord Markham Excerpts

Wednesday 23rd November 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Faulkner of Worcester]

To ask His Majesty’s Government when they intend to publish their Tobacco Control Plan; and whether it is still their intention that England shall be smoke-free by 2030.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Health and Social Care (Lord Markham) (Con)]

Following the publication of the Khan review into smoke-free policies, we are taking stock of whether a fresh tobacco control plan is the best way to respond to its independent recommendations. The Government remain fully committed to the ambition of a smoke-free England by 2030, and we will provide an update on our plans to meet that target in due course.

[Lord Faulkner of Worcester (Lab)]

My Lords, I think this is the first time the Minister has answered a Question about tobacco control; I welcome him to this debate. He will know that this House has led the way in putting forward and implementing measures that have led to a significant drop in smoking levels, certainly since 2002. There is cross-party consensus that we should go on in this way.

The Minister’s predecessor, the noble Lord, Lord Kamall —I am pleased to see him in his place—is on the record in both March and April as saying not only that the Government are committed to a smoke-free 2030, as confirmed by the Minister this afternoon, but that the new tobacco plan will be published this year. Does the Minister accept that, to achieve the smoke-free target and reduce the appalling inequalities in life expectancy caused by smoking, it will be necessary to implement the recommendations in Javed Khan’s independent review, particularly those based on the “polluter pays” principle?

[Lord Markham (Con)]

First, I thank the noble Lord for all his work to reduce smoking; I am grateful for it every time I walk into a smoke-free environment in the evening. As he said, a cross-party approach has achieved many great things. As the noble Lord knows, there are some quite radical things in the Khan review, such as increasing the smoking age every year, which would in effect ban smoking altogether. There are many pros and cons to the prohibition argument, but it is something we take very seriously and we will publish our response. I assure noble Lords that we are going to tackle this issue.

[Lord Lansley (Con)]

My Lords, does my noble friend recall that in the former coalition Government, we made considerable progress in reducing smoking in this country, not least by focusing on the level of initiation of smoking among young people? We banned vending machines, for example. Will the Government consider raising from 18 the age at which young people can buy cigarettes?

[Lord Markham (Con)]

I agree with my noble friend. The key age group to attack, so to speak, is 16 to 18-year-olds, which is often when the smoking habit begins. We must look seriously at every step we can take to reduce smoking in that age group. I am also aware that 18 is the age of consent, of being able to do lots of things, and changing that for smoking would obviously be quite a radical step, but everything is on the table as we review the best way forward.

[Lord Rennard (LD)]

My Lords, the Health Foundation recently published figures showing that the budgets for tobacco control and smoking cessation have been cut in real terms by 41%. Is not part of the answer to funding treatment for addiction to tobacco, alcohol and gambling the extension of the “polluter pays” principle? What is the argument against a levy on the very large profits of the tobacco companies, in order to pay towards helping their customers who want to quit?

[Lord Markham (Con)]

There are a number of ways we can tackle this, price, obviously, being one of the main ways, along with taxation. The noble Lord will be aware that we increase the tax by 2% every year, and cigarettes prices here are now the highest in Europe. We are still providing funding of £73 million per year to help 100,000 people stop smoking. But it is not always money that counts. Anti-smoking campaigns, branding restrictions and taxation are all other elements which are proving successful.

[Lord Palmer (CB)]

My Lords, have His Majesty’s Government estimated the loss to the Treasury if England became smoke-free?

[Lord Markham (Con)]

I am not aware of those figures, but the general feeling is that the savings to the health system would far outweigh them. I would always err in favour of doing everything we can to reduce smoking, whatever the impact on the tax we raise, because the savings on the health side are far, far greater.

[Baroness Merron (Lab)]

My Lords, despite the Government pledging to explore additional measures to clamp down on the sale of e-cigarettes to under-18s, no plan has yet materialised, while vaping among 11 to 18 year-olds has more than doubled. What assessment have the Government made of this alarming trend, and what action is being considered to keep children and young people away from this gateway to a smoking habit?

[Lord Markham (Con)]

This is a difficult area. On the one hand, I think we all agree that vaping is much better than smoking, so we are trying to get the message out to people to stop smoking and use vaping if need be. At the same time, we do not want vaping to be a gateway, as she says. Giving those mixed messages is never an easy thing to do, which is why we must consider as part of the Khan review the best way to get that message out. The recent Cochrane review shows that vaping is as safe as all other methods of stopping smoking, such as patches, so it should be our key way of stopping smoking.

[Lord Geddes (Con)]

My Lords, as much as I enjoy my non-political friendship with the noble Lord, Lord Faulkner of Worcester, I totally disagree with the premise behind his Question. Why should Big Brother tell me what I can and cannot do in respect of something I have been doing for 67 years?

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Markham (Con)]

I am not sure whether that question is for me, but I will try my best. As ever on these things, there is a carrot and a stick. Cross-party, we have introduced carrot measures—the anti-smoking campaigns—and stick measures such as pricing and restrictions. That has worked very well to date. We have halved the smoking rate over the last 15 years, and we must continue to work on carrot-and-stick measures to reduce it further.

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock (Lab Co-op)]

My Lords, the Minister will be aware that the tobacco industry is very adept at getting round regulations. In 1986, John Home Robertson’s Bill made illegal the use of tobacco pouches that people put in their mouths as substitutes. I understand that synthetic nicotine pouches are now being used to get round that law, so what are the Government doing to stop this?

[Lord Markham (Con)]

I will need to write to the noble Lord on that. I am aware that different methods exist, but I think we are all united on the need to do everything we can to prevent any circumvention.

[Lord Naseby (Con)]

Is not any plan meaningless when at least a third of the market is supplied by illegal imports? His Majesty’s Government appear not to have done anything to stop this, and it is the young people in our country who are smoking the cheap, illegally imported cigarettes.

[Lord Markham (Con)]

We are working very hard with HMRC on this. I think we can all agree that one thing that Brexit was good on was restricting the number of cigarettes that people can bring in legally from other parts of Europe.

[Noble Lords]

Oh!

[Lord Markham (Con)]

I will take everything I can. Clearly, we need to stop cigarettes coming in by all illegal means.

[Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe (Lab)]

The Government also lose a lot of income through illegal importation. If the Government are working very hard indeed to prevent it, can the noble Lord please spell out what they are doing? As I understand it, the number of staff involved at the ports is being cut.

[Lord Markham (Con)]

I do not have the figures on that, so I will need to give the noble Lord a detailed reply.

NHS Waiting Times

Lord Markham Excerpts

Tuesday 22nd November 2022 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Merron (Lab)]

With the permission of my noble friend Lord Hunt of Kings Heath, and on his behalf, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in his name on the Order Paper.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Health and Social Care (Lord Markham) (Con)]

In February 2022, we published the elective recovery plan, setting ambitious targets to recover services, backed by more than £8 billion in funding from 2022-23 to 2024-25 and supported by a £5.9 billion investment in new beds, equipment and technology. We are providing an additional £3.3 billion in 2023-24 and 2024-25 to ensure that the NHS can take rapid action to improve performance, including urgent and emergency care and getting elective performance back towards pre-pandemic levels.

[Baroness Merron (Lab)]

My Lords, last week’s report from the National Audit Office laid waste to the idea that all of the NHS’s current woes are down to the pandemic. By 2019, NHS England had not met the elective waiting time performance standard for four years, nor its full set of eight operational standards for cancer services for six years. Following the Government’s announcement last week of a review into NHS efficiency, can the Minister confirm whether the Government are still committed to their 18-week target between GP referral and consultant-led treatment, as well as their other targets around A&E waiting times, ambulance responses and cancer treatment?

[Lord Markham (Con)]

I thank the noble Baroness. With reference to past performance, that is what the spending increases were all about. They were an acceptance that we need to do more in this space, and we are doing more. The pandemic clearly brought unprecedented circumstances and that is why we have announced more funding to get on top of that in the next few years, tackling all the areas that the noble Baroness mentioned in terms of A&E wait times, GPs and all the rest.

[Baroness Chisholm of Owlpen (Con)]

My Lords, we know that part of the problem is that ambulances are going to A&E departments but are not able to deposit their patients in A&E. We know that there is a blockage at the other end in social care, with people not being able to be discharged fast enough back into the community or into care homes. Until that is sorted out, I cannot see how we are ever going to sort out the waiting lists. Can my noble friend the Minister tell me what might happen that will perhaps make those problems better?

[Lord Markham (Con)]

I thank my noble friend. Adult social care, as many have heard me say before in this House, is a crucial part of this, because it is all about the flow. That is why I was delighted that, in addition to the £500 million discharge fund for this year, we have secured up to £2.8 billion of funding for next year. That is in addition to the 7,000 extra beds and the tailored help for the 15 worst-performing hospitals with the ambulances, so we have a complete answer to all these areas.

[Lord Patel (CB)]

My Lords, patients with complex and long-term conditions are finding it increasingly difficult to access the care that they need, resulting, as the British Heart Foundation report indicated, in 10,000 excess deaths in people suffering from chronic cardiac conditions. The Minister referred recently to the system being a failure. Does he agree that we need a system that develops care for these patients, one that is accessible and timely, in community and primary care settings?

[Lord Markham (Con)]

I agree with the noble Lord that cardiovascular is one important area in which, over the last few years, patients have not received the number of check-ups that we want, so it is an area on which we want to focus—not just through checks in GP centres but in the community. We all know that it is very easy to take blood pressure and have blood pressure machines. As a team, we are looking at precisely those kinds of measures to make sure that we can get the preventive screening in up front, so we can identify these people before problems occur.

[Baroness Brinton (LD)]

The Minister referred to the worst-performing hospitals and ambulance trusts, but news from the Health Service Journal today has shown that the longest waiting times are mainly in rural, deprived areas, with an elderly population that is much higher than in the rest of the country. Can the Minister say what special resources will be provided for those areas—rather than just using words like “worst”, which punish them unnecessarily?

[Lord Markham (Con)]

I thank the noble Baroness. If I have used a poor choice of words, I apologise. What we are looking at is identifying the areas where we most need to focus resources to solve wait times. That might be because it is a rural area or it might be, candidly, because it is not performing so well. The point that I was trying to make is that there is targeted support. We spent £150 million on ambulance performance and new facilities last year, and it is something that we will continue to do if those rural areas and other areas need the spend.

[Lord Watts (Lab)]

My Lords, will the Minister deal with the issue of 18 weeks? Are the Government still committed to that policy? If they are, when does he think it will be achieved?

[Lord Markham (Con)]

We are committed to timely appointments. The whole point about the community diagnostic centres that were set up—and we have set up more than 90—is so that patients can be referred straight to those centres and get their screening and tests straightaway, getting them more quickly and, I hope, getting peace of mind more quickly as well.

[Baroness Meacher (CB)]

My Lords, I very much welcome the recent change, which enabled GPs to refer patients direct for assessments instead of having to refer to a consultant, and for the consultant then to refer, which I think saved about 30 days. What other procedural changes are the Government considering that would further reduce waiting times, without actually costing more money, and save doctors time—for example, patient self-assessments in the home, which we pioneered in east London 30 years ago?

[Lord Markham (Con)]

I thank the noble Baroness. There are a number of areas where we can do this. I point to the possibility for home testing a lot more. Covid was a perfect example, whereby it became commonplace. Rather than samples being sent away to a laboratory, we came up with lateral flow devices and were able to do it cheaply and pretty accurately, although not quite as accurately. That is a perfect example of using technology to do more home-type diagnosis.

[Lord Kamall (Con)]

My Lords, in learning from best practice in other countries, are my noble friend, the department or the NHS aware of the pioneering work of Dr Shetty in Bangalore, who has pioneered production-line surgery for certain procedures? Are the Government considering that at the moment? If not, why not?

[Lord Markham (Con)]

I thank my noble friend for that. While I am not familiar with that exact case, I saw a very good, probably quite similar, example in Chase Farm Hospital, which has four operating theatres in a sort of barn. It has a complete production line for elective hip replacements and so on to get that capacity and efficiency.

[Lord Kakkar (CB)]

My Lords, I draw noble Lords’ attention to my registered interests. The Minister will be aware that innovation, be it therapeutic or in models of care, is essential to improve efficiency and efficacy in the delivery of NHS services. Is he content that there is sufficient protection in the NHS budget to drive that adoption of innovation and ensure that staff are properly trained for its application?

[Lord Markham (Con)]

I thank the noble Lord. As I have said previously, innovation, and being able to back that up with investment, is key. The House will see that we have protected a lot of the research funds so that we can do exactly that. That is the direction of travel. The new hospital programme, which I look after, is very much about looking at best practice and innovation around the world and making sure that we employ the best in our new hospitals and across all our trusts.

[Lord Reid of Cardowan (Lab)]

My Lords, the Minister is relatively new to his department, but even in the number of weeks he has been there, he must recognise that, whatever statistics on inputs he announces at the Dispatch Box, it is not working. There was a time, two decades ago, when we managed as a Government to reduce the maximum waiting time from three years to 18 weeks and the numbers on the waiting list from 1 million to 500,000. There are now 7.2 million on the waiting list—incidentally, there were 4.2 million before Covid. Whatever the Government have been doing for 10 years is not working and people are remaining in pain for prolonged periods, quite apart from the effect on the economy. Will the Minister institute an immediate review centred particularly around patient choice, which is the only thing that will drive down waiting times and waiting lists? It should never have been abandoned in the way it has been by the Government.

[Lord Markham (Con)]

I believe that customers—call them patients—should drive performance and improvements. Inputs are important, but I totally agree that in a performance culture outputs are very important. I give credit to the work done in the early 2000s, from which I have tried to learn in the short time I have been here, to really bear down and create a performance culture to get waiting lists down by holding trusts, and now the new ICB CEOs, to account. That is definitely the direction of travel, and I am very happy to learn from things that have worked well in the past.

NHS: Waiting Lists and Increased Spending

Lord Markham Excerpts

Tuesday 22nd November 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Balfe]

To ask His Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of the statement by the Institute for Fiscal Studies on 15 November that NHS waiting lists have risen in 2022 alongside increased spending on NHS England.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Health and Social Care (Lord Markham) (Con)]

The Government continually assess data and reports on waiting lists from a wide range of sources, including the Institute for Fiscal Studies. The IFS statement confirms that the Government are right to support and challenge NHS England to continue to identify and address factors that constrain further activity, and to reduce waiting lists. The Autumn Statement announced a further £3.3 billion for 2023-24 and 2024-25 to enable rapid action to improve emergency, elective and primary care performance.

[Lord Balfe (Con)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for his reply. Last week, the Institute for Fiscal Studies said that

“NHS spending in England is, in real terms, 12% above its 2019 level. Yet it is getting fewer people off waiting lists and into hospital treatment than it was … in 2019.”

We used to have a slogan: “Labour isn’t working”. The NHS is no longer working. The Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists has asked me whether we could ring-fence its money. I do not think we can. Can some of the hundreds of civil servants on six-figure salaries in his department get down to sorting out what is clearly a dysfunctional department?

[Lord Markham (Con)]

My noble friend is correct. Efficiency is very important, as pointed out in a previous Question. I have done some work in this space, and there are some trusts that are absolutely on the path to the 130% increase in elective treatments compared with 2019, for which the funding is in place. There are other trusts that are not. Clearly, my job and the job of all the department’s civil servants is to understand why that is and to challenge those trusts that are not; to support them where they need that support; and to ensure they are introducing best practice and innovation in order to make sure they all get back towards that level. There are some very good performers and others that are not so good.

[Lord Stirrup (CB)]

My Lords, we hear a lot in this House about the recruitment of doctors and nurses. However, any organisation facing the kind of challenges confronting the NHS would ordinarily be doing its utmost to retain its talent. The NHS, in many ways, seems to be doing the opposite. When will it develop a comprehensive strategy for the retention of its experienced clinical personnel, without whom it would simply be unable to function?

[Lord Markham (Con)]

I thank the noble and gallant Lord for his question. I was delighted to see in the Chancellor’s Statement a commitment to a workforce strategy for five, 10 and 15 years, something that all of us in this House have been asking for. It will look at all the needs in respect of recruitment and, crucially, retention. That is very much part of the agenda.

[Lord Woodley (Lab)]

My Lords, the current shortage of 60,000 nurses is devastating, and its impact on waiting lists even more so. It is obvious—to me, anyway—that the main cause of this staffing crisis is low pay, with many nurses opting to leave for jobs in supermarkets and other sectors for better wages. Does the Minister accept that the best way to tackle these problems is to allow more qualified nurses into the UK from the EU and beyond, grow the economy and fill the gaps in the skills that the NHS needs? Most importantly, we need to pay our heroes, who we all clapped for, a decent living wage to live on.

[Lord Markham (Con)]

I thank the noble Lord. For the record, there are 29,000 extra nurses since 2019-20, so we are well on course for the 50,000 increase. At the same time, we do need to recruit from overseas, and that is very much part of the plan. Again, this will go into the workforce strategy, but I completely agree that we should be looking to recruit from around the world, which we are. I am delighted that we are adding more and more people to the essential workers list, so to speak, to enable us to do that, because we all know that the workforce plan will show that we need to recruit people and retain them.

[Baroness Brinton (LD)]

My Lords, the last time the figure of 92% of patients being seen within 18 weeks was achieved was in 2016. Since then, the numbers who are waiting have doubled: it is now 7.1 million. What does the Minister say to the 16 year-old in Shrewsbury who has just been told that he has to wait nearly three years for a first appointment at his local hospital? The hospital says that it has recruitment problems. When will we see the details of this workforce plan, particularly for rural areas?

[Lord Markham (Con)]

I thank the noble Baroness. As I say, we have committed to that workforce plan, and it will be detailed. We will look at every place in every part of the country because we understand that that is needed, and it is part of the critical plan to get on top of the 7.1 million waiting list. As I think we have accepted, it is not a quick win; it will get higher before it gets lower again. Clearly, however, we need to get on top of it, and we are focused on it. It is very much about the plan and the new spending plans that we put in place to address it.

[Baroness Wheatcroft (CB)]

My Lords, last year NHS trusts paid an interest bill of almost £500 million on PFI hospital contracts. This year, that bill will rise again. Can the Minister tell us what proportion of the increase in NHS budgets will go just to pay interest charges on these dreadful contracts, and what plans he has to try to renegotiate them?

[Lord Markham (Con)]

I thank the noble Baroness; I will need to get back to her in writing on the detail of that. However, looking into the PFI contracts is very much part of my agenda; I had a meeting on that just last week, and we are reviewing it.

[Lord Brownlow of Shurlock Row (Con)]

My Lords, with the increasing conflict between inputs and outputs that the noble Lord, Lord Reid, mentioned earlier, does my noble friend the Minister agree that the need and time for a royal commission on the NHS is fast approaching?

[Lord Markham (Con)]

I thank my noble friend. To be honest with him, I am hoping we can act quicker than that—that is absolutely the plan. I can tell him that we know the areas where they are performing and they are on the elective recovery plan, and we know those that are not. I do not need a royal commission to tell me that. To my mind, it is about understanding what those hospitals are doing well and putting in place focused action and support to help those that are behind the plan.

[Baroness Merron (Lab)]

My Lords, on an earlier Question, I and other noble Lords asked the Minister if the Government were still committed to their target of 18-weeks between GP referral and consultant-led treatment, and their other targets for A&E waiting times, ambulance responses and cancer treatment. I offer the Minister another opportunity to say to your Lordships’ House whether this is the case.

[Lord Markham (Con)]

I thank the noble Baroness. As I am sure the House is aware from the statements of the Chancellor and the Health Secretary, in a lot of areas we are trying to make sure that we place fewer targets on the health professions and GPs and allow them to manage. At the same time, we make sure that if they are not performing, action is taken, but generally we trust them to manage. The beauty of Google is that I have been able to check the 18-week target, and it is a statutory commitment, so I can give that assurance. However, on the others, we are making sure that we look at the performance measures that really matter.

[Lord Howarth of Newport (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, whatever efficiencies are achieved, given that the growth in demand for NHS services will continue to exceed the growth of our ailing economy, should not the Government be making a major commitment to preventive strategies to stop people becoming ill or injured in the first place? With the Government’s reversion to austerity, however, has not the prospect deteriorated for the investment needed in public health and non-clinical approaches such as the successful warm home prescription pilot? How can we hope that the Government will systematically address the social determinants of health, such as poor housing?

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Markham (Con)]

I thank the noble Lord, and I agree that prevention is better than cure. I refer to the earlier Question and analysis by Chris Whitty, the Chief Medical Officer, who pointed out his concerns about cardiovascular health arising from people not having had the check-ups they should have had during the pandemic. I completely agree that there are some very cost-effective measures which can really help with the prevention agenda, such as heart blood pressure machines and lateral flow screening devices that can be sent to homes. We are looking at that issue, because I agree that prevention is better than cure.

Health: Pancreatic Cancer

Lord Markham Excerpts

Monday 21st November 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Black of Brentwood]

To ask His Majesty’s Government what steps they are taking to improve survival rates for pancreatic cancer.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Health and Social Care (Lord Markham) (Con)]

Improving early diagnosis is incredibly important to help boost cancer survival, and the Government are committed to the NHS Long Term Plan ambition of diagnosing 75% of cancers at stage 1 or 2 by 2028. Pancreatic cancer is difficult to diagnose due its unspecific symptoms. To help diagnose these cancers, we have opened 91 community diagnostic centres and 96 non-specific symptoms pathways which are transforming the way those with symptoms not specific to one cancer are diagnosed.

[Lord Black of Brentwood (Con)]

My Lords, this is Pancreatic Cancer Awareness Month, a time to remember those who have died prematurely of this cruel and unforgiving disease, but also a time angrily to reflect on the shocking statistics that surround this least-survivable and quickest-killing cancer: three in five pancreatic cancers are diagnosed at a late stage—worse than any other cancer; half of those diagnosed die within three months—worse than any other cancer; almost 60% of people are diagnosed in A&E—worse than any other cancer. These statistics are shameful. Would my noble friend tell us what has happened to the 10-year cancer plan, which is so vital in this area, and commit to a strategy within it to ensure early diagnosis of pancreatic cancer patients within 21 days of presenting with symptoms? Will he explain why there is so little investment in research in this area—just 3% of the total UK cancer research budget—when we vitally need a test to stop this horrible disease in its tracks?

[Lord Markham (Con)]

My noble friend is correct: pancreatic is probably one of the cruellest of cancers. We have a 10-year cancer plan; to answer his question, we are going through 5,000 responses, and we are analysing them and will report back shortly. On research, we are performing over 70 different pancreatic cancer studies. Key to all of this is not just early diagnosis; more important than ever, in this awareness month, is making sure that people are aware and go to their doctors early if they have any concerns at all.

[Lord Turnberg (Lab)]

My Lords, one of the problems of this nasty cancer is that, by the time any symptoms occur, it is often too late. We desperately need some sort of screening test. Recent research has suggested that we may be able to pick it up in the bloodstream using a so-called liquid biopsy. What research is being done on this now?

[Lord Markham (Con)]

I understand that the leader in this field is GRAIL. This blood screening is happening in America right now, and NICE is undertaking studies in this field to see whether it should be brought to the UK. We will have its findings. I agree that pancreatic cancer is an area where early detection is key. It is not just about the screening but about people going to their doctor if they have any concerns at all, as I say. We have non-specific symptoms pathways to help doctors to detect what is wrong.

[Lord Aberdare (CB)]

My Lords, the UK ranks 29th of 33 countries for five-year pancreatic cancer survival rates. At the very least, we should ensure that pancreatic cancer patients get the best possible treatments in the short time usually available to them, with over half dying within three months. One such treatment is pancreatic enzyme replacement therapy—PERT—which helps them to eat and digest their food, but only about half of pancreatic cancer sufferers are offered this treatment. What are the Government doing to understand why this is the case and to ensure that all pancreatic cancer patients who need PERT are offered it?

[Lord Markham (Con)]

I thank the noble Lord. This case has also been brought forward by the noble Lord, Lord Moynihan, who could not be here today, but he is very keen on this as well. We have now put PERT into NICE guidelines, so it should be offered. I am meeting my noble friend Lord Moynihan to make sure that these things are being taken up, and I would be happy to extend that invitation to the noble Lord.

[Lord Forsyth of Drumlean (Con)]

My Lords, the Government’s current campaign to encourage people to go and see their GP if they have symptoms is commendable, but how can this help when people are waiting months to get scans and then weeks to get the results of their scan? What can be done about this?

[Lord Markham (Con)]

This is where we see the diagnostic centres being a key area in this. We have set up 91 community diagnostic centres. In addition, in 2020 we had only 12 non-specific symptoms pathways; we are now rolling those out to 96, so that 75% of the population will be covered by March 2023, with a target of 100% by March 2024.

[Baroness Merron (Lab)]

My Lords, the UK is lagging behind comparative European nations on cancer survival rates. In the landmark How Good is the NHS? report, the UK came last on pancreatic cancer survival rates. Could the Minister give a view as to why the UK compares so unfavourably to elsewhere? How will the recent comments of the Health Secretary about changes to national targets affect waiting times and survival rates for patients with pancreatic cancer?

[Lord Markham (Con)]

We are very clear on the need for speed in cancer treatment; that is one target that will not change, because we know its importance in all this. With pancreatic cancer, we are where we were with prostate cancer about 10 or 15 years ago, and I am glad to see that we have made great strides on that with initiatives such as the Movember campaign and the action on that. Candidly, we are not where we need to be on pancreatic cancer, and we need to adopt those sorts of awareness campaigns, as well as fast action on screening, to improve our performance.

[Baroness Brinton (LD)]

My Lords, 30 years ago cervical screening was developed and introduced; prior to that, cancer of the cervix was as impossible to detect and to find as pancreatic cancer. Will the Minister say whether research will be provided to ensure that screening for pancreatic cancer can be introduced as soon as it is confirmed, because screening was the real game-changer for cervical cancer?

[Lord Markham (Con)]

I agree that screening programmes are, without doubt, the way forward. I mentioned earlier the 73 different pancreatic cancer research studies, of which screening is a very important element, so I totally agree that that should be our top priority.

[Lord Kakkar (CB)]

My Lords, I declare my interests in the register. Clinical research is fundamental to ensuring the evaluation and rapid adoption of new therapeutic interventions that could improve survival rates in diseases such as pancreatic cancer, but operational pressures in the NHS are having an impact on the ability to conduct that clinical research. Is the Minister content that there is sufficient emphasis and support to maintain the infrastructure for clinical research and the capacity to deliver translational, early-stage and later-stage trials in pancreatic cancer?

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Markham (Con)]

My understanding is that we do have the capacity for these research trials. Also, on workforce in the cancer space, we have invested £50 million, so we are actually 200 people over our target on that. This is part of the Chancellor’s announcement about the long-term workforce study, which I know will be welcomed by many in this House, where we will be looking, area by area, at exactly what workforce needs we have—and we have a recruitment plan against that.

[Lord Kamall (Con)]

My Lords, in response to an earlier question, my noble friend the Minister talked about the need for more awareness in advance of identifying appropriate screening methods. Given that it is now Pancreatic Cancer Awareness Month, what else are the Government and the NHS doing outside that to ensure there is more awareness for patients to come forward for potential pancreatic cancer?

[Lord Markham (Con)]

I thank my noble friend. Key to this is the Help Us to Help You campaign, which reaches out to lots of different communities, including a number of minority communities. At the same time, we have rolled out the early cancer diagnosis service to GPs, where they are looking out for some of those warning signs, even when people are there for a regular appointment. Clearly, as has been said by other speakers today, a lot more needs to be done; it is a journey, but awareness is the vital first part of that journey. On that point, I thank the Pancreatic Cancer UK charity, which has been excellent in this field.

[Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall (Lab)]

My Lords, the Minister has just referred to awareness, to which he has referred many times in the course of this Question. Would he accept that, for some people, it is difficult to understand what you need to be aware of—particularly with a disease which is, as far as I am hearing today, largely asymptomatic for a good part of its early progression? Can he tell the House where people, who perhaps need to be aware, should look for the things that they need to be aware of?

[Lord Markham (Con)]

The noble Baroness is correct: the problem about the so-called invisible diseases—of which cervical cancer is another example—is that you do not know quite what you should be looking for. That is why I mentioned earlier the non-specific symptoms pathways, which are exactly designed for those sorts of things, whereby general checks are included in the area so that, although people do not even go along with a specific symptom, they are starting to be screened. That needs to be rolled out further. As I mentioned before, this would cover 75% of the population by March 2023; clearly, we need to be at 100%, with the target of March 2024 for that.

Social Care Sector: Staff Shortages

Lord Markham Excerpts

Monday 21st November 2022 Lords Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Health and Social Care (Lord Markham) (Con)]

As acknowledged by the Chancellor, pressures in the social care sector are a serious issue. We are taking steps to boost the social care workforce, investing up to £2.8 billion of additional funding in 2023-24 and £4.7 billion in 2024-25 for adult social care, raising the national living wage to £10.42 and launching our national recruitment campaign. We will also be publishing a staffing plan for regulated professionals, including nurses and allied health professionals in health and social care.

[Viscount Stansgate (Lab)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for that Answer. Last Thursday, the Chancellor said that there were 13,500 beds occupied by people who should be at home. When are the Government going to ensure that there are enough staff to look after them in the adult social care sector, given that you can earn more money in a supermarket than in a care home? How much money are the Government intending to save by postponing the Dilnot reforms? Does the Minister agree with Sir Andrew that this delay is “inhumane”? Will it not mean that many more people are going to have to sell their homes in order to pay for the large care costs? In short, does the Minister agree that the longer this Government remain in office, the more people are having to wait for decent, affordable, proper social care?

[Lord Markham (Con)]

The noble Viscount mentioned funding. Clearly, it was a difficult choice, but our priority was to make sure that the funding went into the supply of places over the next two years, because of the impact that has across the system. Noble Lords will have heard me mention many times how that affects the whole flow, which backs up into ambulance wait times and everything else. That is why I am delighted to say that we have secured £2.8 billion of extra funding in 2023-24 and £4.7 billion in 2024-25. That will obviously flow through the whole system, including into staff wages and recruitment.

[Baroness Altmann (Con)]

My Lords, I welcome the announcement of the health and social care visa, but the Government have no separate figures for the number of workers who have come here under the new health and care special visa rules, separately for health staff and social care staff. So can my noble friend tell the House what are the median and top quartile pay rates for social care staff? I am happy for him to write to me if he does not have those figures. Do the new visa’s minimum salary requirements mean there is little hope of immigration filling the 165,000 or more vacancies, leaving 2.6 million older people without the care they need, as estimated by Age UK?

[Lord Markham (Con)]

I will need to write on the detail of the median and upper quartiles, as mentioned. What I can say right now, though, is that the national living wage increase will put them over the current visa levels required, which I think will be a big boost, allowing us to increase our recruitment from overseas. We have already seen month-on-month increases and the national living wage increase will help grow that further.

[Lord Harris of Haringey (Lab)]

My Lords, is it not the case that if the national minimum wage has gone up, therefore affecting the social care sector, it will also have gone up affecting those who stack shelves in supermarkets?

[Lord Markham (Con)]

I was referring in that answer to the visa scheme. That will allow us to recruit more people from overseas who will be eligible for a visa, in the fine traditions of the NHS. We have always recruited from around the world and I am pleased to say that we are recruiting in this space. This is a consequence of a full-employment economy, which I think we would all accept is a very good thing. But, clearly, that sometimes means we need help, in areas such as the NHS, to recruit from overseas.

[The Lord Bishop of London]

My Lords, Enabled Living in Newham has become the first London-based social care provider to pay its workers the real living wage—the first such employer to do so. We have heard that social care workers are among the lowest paid, with one in five residential care workers living in poverty before the cost of living crisis, according to the Health Foundation. What assessment have the Government made of the real living wage and the impact that it could have on retaining valuable social care workers?

[Lord Markham (Con)]

I thank the right reverend Prelate for the passion that she clearly displays in this field. As I mentioned in my Answer to the Question, we have a national recruitment campaign, and looking at the staffing plan for allied health professionals and what needs to be paid to recruit people in the right areas will be part of that. The national living wage is a start, but clearly we need to make sure that this is an attractive career that people want to join and stay in.

[Baroness Watkins of Tavistock (CB)]

My Lords, I draw attention to my interests in the register. Recently, the coroner in Cornwall ruled that some deaths in the county are probably attributable to delays in ambulance services, which are in turn associated with delays in transfers of care from acute services to care homes. There has been a reduction of more than 600 care bed places in Cornwall in the past four years. This is an example of the challenge that we face. Does the Minister accept that the Government’s objectives for the NHS will never be effectively achieved without resolving the social care challenges, and that the difficulty of recruiting from overseas, particularly in rural areas, should be acknowledged?

[Lord Markham (Con)]

I agree and have often made the point that solving this part is key to the flow and to getting people through discharge quickly, which has a knock-on impact on A&E and ambulance wait times. That is why I was delighted to hear the Chancellor recognise this specifically and mention £2.8 billion of funding in 2023-24, which will account for 200,000 new care packages in this space, as well as £4.7 billion in 2024-25 to resolve the exact problems that the noble Baroness brings up.

[Baroness Brinton (LD)]

My Lords, the Minister has now referred three times to the money that the Chancellor has said he will invest in social care from April next year. But the crisis is now and the Government’s own plan for patients says this must be resolved and there must be more social care workers immediately to help with the pressure on hospitals. What will the Government do over the next six months to ensure that there are more workers and help to relieve the problems with both discharges and A&E?

[Lord Markham (Con)]

I thank the noble Baroness. In the past few days, local authorities have been notified of the £500 million discharge fund. That funding will go out in December and January, so it is very much going out there. It is very much designed to address the issues of discharge, creating new places and helping to recruit.

[Lord Naseby (Con)]

My Lords, is there not a case for formally involving the Commonwealth in this aspect? There is already a trial going on with Sri Lanka for nursing. I suggest to my noble friend the Minister that there are other Commonwealth countries that would be more than willing to have a two-way flow and help reduce the huge shortage that we have.

[Lord Markham (Con)]

I agree with my noble friend. Overseas and Commonwealth recruitment is a key area here, which is why I am delighted that we have addressed the visa restrictions and entered social care on an essential workers list. We have already seen 15,000 people come in this space, and that figure is increasing month on month. My noble friend is correct that this is a critical area for recruitment for us.

[Baroness Pitkeathley (Lab)]

My Lords, does the Minister agree that the more problems there are with paid workers in social care, the more difficulties fall on the nearly 10 million unpaid carers. Of those who are receiving the carer’s allowance, 40% say that they are already in debt and not sure how they will manage through the winter. Does he also agree that, in view of the myriad problems in social care, it is time to listen to what the noble Lord, Lord Forsyth, asked the House last Thursday, and think about a proper review of the whole of social care?

[Lord Markham (Con)]

My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness. The new funds mentioned recognise that this is critical to the health of our National Health Service and the flow. As part of that, as I mentioned in my Answer, we are looking at staffing plans across allied health professions in the health and social care space, and it is vital that we get the recruitment to this area to solve the overall issue of flow and NHS wait times.

Childhood Obesity

Lord Markham Excerpts

Thursday 17th November 2022 Lords Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Health and Social Care (Lord Markham) (Con)]

Addressing childhood obesity remains a priority for the Government and we remain committed to achieving our ambition to halve childhood obesity by 2030. We are delivering an ambitious programme of work to create a healthier environment to help people achieve and maintain a healthy weight. We recognise that there is more that we need to do, and we will continue to work with the food industry to make it easier for people to make healthier choices.

[Lord Dubs (Lab)]

My Lords, first, could the Minister clarify whether the previous Administration’s policy, either to weaken or to repeal much of the 2020 obesity strategy, still stands or whether the Government will do better than that? Secondly, does he agree that health visitors play an important part in educating and informing families and parents so that, when children are young, they are brought up in an environment where they are encouraged to have a diet that tackles obesity?

[Lord Markham (Con)]

I agree that health visitors play a vital role. We all know that a good start to life with healthy eating is a good foundation for the rest of your life. We also know that a lot of the problems around adult obesity obviously start in children under the age of five. I completely agree on continuing to strive to do better in government. I will answer some more questions on the actions we are taking, from which the noble Lord will see that we are very active.

[Lord McColl of Dulwich (Con)]

My Lords, does the Minister agree that, as 40 million people are obese in this country, marching inevitably to a premature death from a variety of very unpleasant diseases, it would be a good idea to encourage them to have one less meal a day? This might encourage children to follow suit and put fewer calories into their mouths, which would help prevent them developing type 2 diabetes before they are 10.

[Lord Markham (Con)]

My Lords, I agree that we—both as the Government and in general—need to be clear about what our recommended calorific intake is each day. Whether you choose to change that by eating one less meal, or however else you distribute your eating across the day, it is our role to help educate people on healthy eating. I agree that it is an issue and a big cost to both the health service and the economy. Our latest estimates are that it could cost the economy as much as £58 billion a year, so it is a critical message to get across.

[Lord Addington (LD)]

My Lords, would the Minister enlighten us on the position of the BOGOF—buy one, get one free—deals? Are we going to remove the disincentive to people buying extra calories in the form of an extra portion? Or will the Government encourage people not to buy the first portion?

[Lord Markham (Con)]

As I think the noble Lord is aware, the position on BOGOF, so to speak, is that we have delayed those restrictions for a year. We have taken significant action in this space, most critically in supermarkets, by moving the promoted items away from tills and prominent aisle endings to remove this so-called pester power. We will very much keep this under review; when we see the impact, particularly of moving those items, we can look again at whether we will introduce more BOGOF restrictions.

[Baroness Hoey (Non-Afl)]

My Lords, the Minister has mentioned that what children eat is very important, but is the amount of proper and physical exercise young children get not just as important? Is he concerned, as I am, that primary schools, more and more, do not have officially registered physical education teachers, resulting in children getting very little properly organised exercise? Does he think that this is important, as far as obesity in children is concerned?

[Lord Markham (Con)]

I agree with the noble Baroness, particularly given her previous position, that sport and physical activity are vital. As I am sure she is aware, we have a 60-minute target for children and £320 million of PE funding to back that up—but active lifestyles and sport are critical to that.

At this moment, as both an Englishman and a Welshman, I take the opportunity to wish both teams all the best in the World Cup.

[Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe (Lab)]

My Lords, is it not a factor that exercise, no matter how much you do, will reduce only 20% of your overweight? Some 80% is from food and drink. Will the Government spend more time looking at fat and sugar? Why will they not promote research into alternatives to sugar, notably stevia? Instead, they leave it to the private sector and the manufacturers to do the work, and they are doing no work whatever on it. In those circumstances, will the Government take action themselves?

[Lord Markham (Con)]

I agree with the noble Lord that a healthy lifestyle in terms of exercise gets only you so far and that the amount we eat is critical to that. We have played a very active role on sugar reduction—of course, I say this in the context of this being Sugar Awareness Week. Obviously, the sugary drinks levy has reduced sugar in soft drinks by 44% by using artificial sweeteners, so this is something we will look to continue to research and to add to, if the evidence backs it up.

[Lord Lansley (Con)]

My Lords, I draw attention to my registered relationship with ukactive. I ask my noble friend whether he would agree that there is, on this occasion, as the noble Lord, Lord Stevens of Birmingham, said once, a silver bullet: it is called physical activity. This is in line with the question from the noble Baroness, Lady Hoey. In supporting physical activity, my experience was that the Department of Health needed to work with DCMS and the Department for Education to promote school sport partnerships. In my former constituency, 51 primary schools benefit from the school sport partnerships. It is a really important priority that every youngster, not just those who are really good at sport, gets the chance for that physical activity.

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[Lord Markham (Con)]

I thank my noble friend and totally agree with him. As we have all mentioned, physical activities are a key part of a healthy lifestyle, regarding not just obesity and healthy eating but mental health. There is a lot of evidence to show that sport and a healthy lifestyle are good for everyone. We are working with the DfE and DCMS on this, but I agree that it we will need to keep it central to our agenda.

[Lord Rooker (Lab)]

I say to the Minister that we do not need to reinvent the wheel. A perfectly good practical policy was worked out at the end of the David Cameron period in government; it arrived on the desk of Theresa May, who scrapped it. Why not go back to that?

[Lord Markham (Con)]

I am afraid the noble Lord is testing my memory as to what that was. If he will excuse me, I will find out what it was and write to him.

[Lord Bellingham (Con)]

My Lords, obviously the situation in the UK is extremely concerning, but we should consider what is going on elsewhere in the OECD: some countries have a better record than us, and others have brought in extremely innovative initiatives. What can we learn from other countries?

[Lord Markham (Con)]

I thank my noble friend for his question. Absolutely, we always need to ensure that we are trying to learn from best examples, either in this country or from around the world. The OECD talks about four major strands: information and education; increasing healthy choices; modifying costs, such as a sugar tax; and restrictions on the placement of food and promotions. Noble Lords can see that we are taking much action in all those areas. Most of all, I am pleased to see that, influenced by a trailblazing initiative started in Amsterdam, we are now funding five local authorities to follow that across Birmingham, Bradford, Nottingham and Lewisham to see what we can learn from those initiatives.

[Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)]

My Lords, what parents, health professionals, educators and retailers want is some consistency and clarity from the Government. Can the Minister confirm whether the Government intend to maintain the previous Prime Minister’s plans to ditch the vast majority of their 2020 obesity strategy, against the advice of the current Chancellor, who just two months ago signed a letter from former Health Ministers on the need for an anti-obesity strategy? We need to know where we are.

[Lord Markham (Con)]

I hope the noble Baroness will forgive me if I am not quite sure which former Prime Minister and Chancellor she is referring to. I could not resist that, but I take her point and will respond in writing.

[Lord Robathan (Con)]

My Lords, is it not the case that we have had strategy after strategy, all well intentioned—we all agree on what we want to do—but it is not working? The Government pussyfoot around this. As my noble friend Lord McColl said, we need to tell people that it is not acceptable to be obese. If you are obese, guess what, your children think that it is acceptable to be obese. Might not we have a bit more of a robust strategy on this?

[Lord Markham (Con)]

I like to think that we have an active strategy in this space. Personally, I prefer carrot to stick in this area. However, as I answered in the previous question, I am prepared to learn from anything that has worked in this country or abroad. If there is evidence of where the stick works better than the carrot, I would be willing to look at that and see whether we should be copying some of it.

Long Covid

Lord Markham Excerpts

Thursday 17th November 2022 Lords Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Health and Social Care (Lord Markham) (Con)]

My Lords, I refer to my entry in the register of interests. I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Thornton, for securing this important debate and all noble Lords across the Chamber for their thoughtful and considered contributions. I will try to do their points justice in my response; where I do not, I promise to follow up in writing.

The pandemic has tested us all in many ways, as I am sure noble Lords agree. Governments and healthcare systems around the world are all facing the same set of challenges in tackling long Covid. Although I am to some extent still “the new guy”, I am under no illusions about how these add to the existing challenges facing the NHS, some of which have already been debated in the Chamber. We have done much already, but I shall not pretend that we have got it all right. We must do more, as was well put by my former colleague, my noble friend Lord Bethell, and many others.

Today’s debate has been wide-ranging, and I will do my best to respond to the issues raised. I will set out what the Government are doing on the serious challenges of long Covid, such as NHS healthcare, research, employment and social support. However, with the presence in this House of so many of the key players in the fight against Covid—my noble friend Lord Bethell and the noble Lords, Lord Darzi and Lord Stevens—it is only right that we first recognise the critical role they all played and the support they gave in the unprecedented global challenge we faced. The country acted decisively and, I think we broadly agree, got the big calls right. We were the first country to administer an approved vaccine and the first to administer a bivalent vaccine for the original strain and omicron, and we had the fastest booster programme across Europe. I pay tribute to my predecessor and all other colleagues for the tireless work they did in that area.

As mentioned by many noble Lords, including my noble friend Lord Bethell, we all agree that prevention is better than cure. It is the best defence. Not only have vaccines been proven to stop serious illness, but—I accept, more anecdotally—they are thought to reduce the risk of long Covid. As we all know, we have administered 139 million vaccine doses, 40 million boosters and a world-class programme. On the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Brooke, rather than being one of the worst in Europe, in terms of excess deaths, which is the internationally recognised definition, we are one of the best. However, I agree with my noble friend Lord Bethell that we need to bring what we have done on Covid prevention into our research on long Covid prevention.

The point was very well made by many noble Lords that it is not just about research into Covid but, as the noble Baronesses, Lady Scott and Lady Meacher, said, linking how long Covid might connect with ME, chronic fatigue syndrome and other similar areas. As we know, it is a complex area. Various speakers, including the noble Baroness, Lady Masham, and the noble Viscount, Lord Stansgate, mentioned how complex this is. We need to make sure that our research digs into all these areas. Some 220 different symptoms are included, I believe. The research we have done, such as the REACT study from Imperial, in which the noble Lord, Lord Darzi, has been so involved, and the UCL research on brain fog, mentioned by the noble Viscount, Lord Stansgate, and to which I am sure the noble Baroness, Lady Neuberger, is connected through her UCH connections, is vital. There are honest debates around this; there is also research into weight management and its impact on long Covid, as brought up by the noble Lord, Lord Brooke. We all agree that there must be an honest debate to really understand the drivers behind it. We need to be clear about that.

I can commit that the £50 million for research is protected. As the noble Baroness, Lady Brinton, said during her excellent history lesson—I will look up Pale Rider—there are many lessons to learn from Spanish flu. I agree that Covid is not over, unfortunately, so she has from me a commitment to that research.

In answer to the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Brooke, about the levels of investment, the £50 million we are investing in research is, I believe, second only to the USA, so we are very much among the leaders. This is in addition to the £108 million spent on Covid research to date. To answer the point made by the noble Baroness, Lady Thornton, we are fully committed to international research, and making sure it is a two-way process in which we share our findings and commit our data.

Regarding data, some excellent points were made by the noble Baroness, Lady Thornton, and the noble Lords, Lord Kakkar and Lord Griffiths. Noble Lords have heard me say before that I am a bit of a data anorak, so I totally understand its value in this space. I will make sure that noble Lords have a detailed answer on this, but it is something I very much support and believe we need to be doing.

I say in response to the noble Baronesses, Lady Scott and Lady Meacher, who spoke about trying to understand how long Covid might interact with, or have similarities to, ME and chronic fatigue, that funding is still available. The right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Exeter spoke about the rural impact, and I would say there is scope there. The noble Lord, Lord Kakkar, asked if we need to do more. Funds are still available within that £50 million, but it is something we believe in, and as we know from short Covid—if that is the right term for it—our research was vital and we remain committed to playing a leading role on the world stage.

We all know that research is only of any use or has any point if it actually creates treatments we can use within the NHS. As many speakers have said, only if these are substituted into services will they really help. The UK was one of the first countries to recognise and respond to long Covid, and we set up the national long covid commission guidance with new care pathways. As part of that, as mentioned by many speakers, including the noble Earl, Lord Clancarty, access to information and education for doctors is key. The Royal College of GPs and the HEE have put out information, but to judge from some of the examples given today, it has clearly not been disseminated widely enough.

I appreciate the tips from the noble Baroness, Lady Taylor, about getting extra funding from the Chancellor. As many of us might have seen, extra funding was announced in the other House earlier, but I appreciate the tips and, believe me, I will be using them. I assure the noble Baroness, Lady Neuberger, that the £224 million we have already invested is a commitment, and it has helped set to up 100 specialist treatment centres, many in rural areas. I had a chance to look up the figures, and I think I counted seven in Devon, but I will confirm that, because it is not just an inner-city issue but a whole-country issue. There is also the question of the impact on young people and children, a point made by the noble Baronesses, Lady Watkins and Lady Masham. Fourteen of those 100 centres specialise in treating children and are therefore helping to deal with this issue.

The point that these measures are only any good if we are making people aware of them all was very well made by the noble Baronesses, Lady Donaghy and Lady Pitkeathley, and the noble Earl, Lord Clancarty. I am proud of what we have managed to achieve on the Your COVID Recovery web app: we have had 12 million visits from people looking at advice on how they can recover. However, I am by no means complacent about the need to make sure that there is advice everywhere.

I will get back to the noble Viscount, Lord Stansgate, on ivermectin, as I need to get some detailed advice on that. However, as the noble Earl, Lord Clancarty, talked about people feeling the need to go to private centres and often try unproven medicines, generally I would caution against that, as I am sure many of us would. While this is a complex area and we are still learning about it, I advise people to stick to the proven methods we are trying to adopt through our own NICE guidelines and our own centres. That is what we are trying to do right now through the NHS, but as the noble Baroness, Lady Brinton, and others mentioned, this is not a one-and-done matter. This is a long-run thing, so these services will need to evolve over time, and we will need to keep up.

As we all know, looking at what we are doing health-wise is only part of the picture. The noble Lord, Lord Bethell, started the discussion on this point very well, and a number of noble Lords contributed to it, speaking about the whole impact on employment, work and schools, and—as was well said by the noble Lord, Lord Griffiths—on a personal basis. The impact of long Covid is much wider than just on health, and I very much recognise its impact on employment and work. As many noble Lords will know, I was the lead NED of the Department for Work and Pensions before I came into this role, so I am very aware of the 2.5 million people out of work due to long-term sickness, towards which we now know that long Covid is contributing. Action in this area to help those people is vital not only to their health but to the health of the economy. I know that this is a priority of colleagues at the DWP, and it is part of the £1.3 billion investment to support the long-term sick into work.

I totally accept the point made by a number of noble Lords, including the noble Baronesses, Lady Donaghy, Lady Watkins, Lady Masham, Lady Neuberger and Lady Brinton, about the impact of long Covid on our own NHS staff. We need to make sure that we are supporting them through this. I have done a bit of research on whether long Covid can be defined as an occupational disease, as was mentioned. This is a complex area, because, as we mentioned before, there are 220 different symptoms connected with it. However, the DWP is being advised by the independent Industrial Injuries Advisory Council on this. It has recently published a paper prescribing five complications following Covid which should be considered in awarding personal independence payments. I am sure this will be an evolving picture, but my DWP colleagues are looking at it.

Of course, this issue is much wider than the NHS; it should be embraced by all employers. I am very pleased that I have an opportunity to speak at the CBI conference shortly about health in the workplace. This is something that I plan to bring up then, because it is important that all our employers recognise that health is everyone’s business, as was said in a consultation document that recently went out, to which we will respond shortly. Clearly, the role of employers is key to all that.

Personally, I would like to see the sort of approach taken in Japan, in which employers take on a big role in the health of their workforce and very much look at prevention. As my noble friend Lord Bethell said, it should not just be our health service looking at prevention methods; we need to be giving people over 50 health MoTs, and looking at cardiovascular impacts as well as how employers can help in that space.

I hope I have answered many of the points raised today. I commit to cover any I have missed in a detailed response. I finish by again thanking the noble Baroness, Lady Thornton, and all the speakers. I found this a very informative debate. We can all say that we have much more to learn about long Covid and that we continue to be guided by the science. But the virus has definitely not gone away and, unfortunately, as many noble Lords mentioned, we will have to live with Covid and long Covid for a long time to come. We must continue to be proactive to prevent through our vaccine programmes, to treat through NHS services, to research to continually improve understanding, and to support people to get back into work. I thank noble Lords.

GPs: Anti-depressants and Alcohol

Lord Markham Excerpts

Wednesday 16th November 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe]

To ask His Majesty’s Government whether they will review the purpose, effectiveness, and the cost, of GPs prescribing anti-depressants to patients who continue to consume alcohol.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Health and Social Care (Lord Markham) (Con)]

Decisions about what medicines to prescribe, and in what circumstances, are rightly made by the clinician caring for the patient. At the same time, NICE guidelines are clear that anti-depressants should not be used to treat alcohol dependency. Prescribers must be free to make their own decisions, based on their clinical judgment and discussion with their patients, with the appropriate care for the individual always being the primary consideration.

[Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe (Lab)]

I am grateful to the noble Lord for his reply. As we face public expenditure cuts and as the College of Medicine has estimated that 110 million items prescribed every year are wasted at a phenomenal cost, what steps are the Government going to take? Will they have discussions with GPs about the ways in which we can cut back on wasting money on useless prescriptions?

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[Lord Markham (Con)]

I agree with the premise of the question. Clearly we want the most efficient use of our resources. As I am sure the noble Lord is aware, there is a national review of overprescribing, which is looking at precisely these sorts of guidelines to make sure that medicine is used only when it is needed.

[Baroness Wheatcroft (CB)]

My Lords, there is clear evidence that the prescribing of activities, particularly cultural activities, is very effective in treating depression in many cases. What steps are being taken to encourage the prescribing of culture and other activities, as opposed to expensive drugs?

[Lord Markham (Con)]

I agree that the first step should normally be cognitive talking-type therapies. As the House will be aware, we have been investing quite considerably in the mental health space. We have had a 25% increase in referrals to talking therapies, to 1.8 million in the past year alone. I very much agree that there should always be action to see whether we can help with those cognitive behavioural-type therapies first before resorting to prescribing drugs.

[Baroness Blackwood of North Oxford (Con)]

For some patients talking therapies and CBT may be an appropriate treatment for depression, as discussed, but for others next-generation SSRIs may be quite literally life-saving, and I am sure that no one in this Chamber would want to shame or discourage any patient who has been appropriately prescribed such a therapy. The Minister, I know, would want to suggest that GPs should be spoken to before any such action would be taken.

[Lord Markham (Con)]

I thank my noble friend and agree. It should always be down to the GP, working closely with the patient, to decide the best form of treatment, whether talking therapies or drugs, and that is why we are quite clear in the guidance that first and foremost it has to be the local clinician who makes the decision.

[Baroness Brinton (LD)]

My Lords, the noble Baroness, Lady Blackwood, made the very important point that there are differing results with different anti-depressants and different reasons for depression. A 2007 study showed that the use of anti-depressants reduced alcohol intake in those who drank a lot while they were very depressed. However, a 2011 study showed that SSRIs and alcohol often produced disinhibition. The one thing those two studies both showed was that where the physician was able to talk to the patient and explain, the patient reduced their alcohol. When will more time be available for GPs to talk these things through properly with patients?

[Lord Markham (Con)]

We all agree that GPs are best placed to do this. I think the House is aware of our commitment to increase the number of GP appointments by 50 million, and we are well on course to meet that target. At the same time, we have the independent review of drugs by Dame Carol Black, which looks at mental health, drugs and drink and how they are closely related, to make sure we have the best advice. First and foremost, I totally agree that the best-placed person is a GP talking to their patient.

[Baroness Merron (Lab)]

My Lords, the Joseph Rowntree Foundation reports that the number of anti-depressant prescriptions is twice as high in the most-deprived areas compared to the least-deprived, with the differential even more marked when it comes to severe conditions. With the long-promised health inequalities White Paper now seemingly sunk without trace, where is the Government’s strategy to change the conditions that affect mental well-being in the most deprived areas?

[Lord Markham (Con)]

My Lords, as set out in the draft mental health Bill, mental health activities are very focused on where help can be given in areas of inequalities. As to the position in the White Paper, I am afraid that the answer is the same as in the previous case: I do not have any information at the moment on any date.

[Baroness Browning (Con)]

My Lords, the medication for mental health conditions, including addictions, can be vastly improved in outcome and the proper use of that medication if the doctor is able to test the DNA of the patient to marry up the correct medication. When is genetic testing going to become an integral part of the NHS?

[Lord Markham (Con)]

We all see the great promise in genetic testing, and I know that this is something very close to my noble friend Lady Blackwood’s heart. It is a progressive area, where we are seeing new treatments all the time that can be helped by the use of genetic testing. As they come down the stream, this is very much on the agenda of NICE as well to make sure that those are available as required.

[Lord Mackenzie of Framwellgate (Non-Afl)]

My Lords, regardless of the misuse of alcohol with drugs, is there also not a danger of patients taking anti-depressants, painkillers and sleeping medication, such as codeine, becoming addicted over time? Is this carefully monitored?

[Lord Markham (Con)]

First and foremost, it is the role of the GP and the local clinician to monitor that. Again, the guidance given by NICE is that we very much back up and work with the NHS performance teams to make sure that things are integrated. Not only is there the meeting of the patient with the GP in the first place, but these are reviewed very frequently, on a six-monthly basis, to ensure that exactly the issues mentioned by the noble Lord are controlled.

[Lord Sikka (Lab)]

My Lords, the Government can help to reduce the use of anti-depressant drugs by tackling the root causes, which are anxiety, insecurity and poverty inflicted by the Government’s own policies. Will the Minister tell us when the Government will be in a position to reduce the NHS waiting lists back to the numbers they were at in 2010?

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Markham (Con)]

I believe that the House is very aware of our plan for patients. It is very much the focus of my activity. I was just talking to the NHS and the CFO this morning on where we are on the recovery of the elective treatments and the plan for that, so it is very much in the front of our minds.

[Lord Teverson (LD)]

My Lords, I very much welcome the Government’s initiative on environmental prescribing, particularly for depression and mental illness. Will the Minister say what assessments they have made of the success of that programme so far, and whether they will promote it further?

[Lord Markham (Con)]

On this occasion, that is probably a question about which I need to write back to the noble Lord to give him the detail on it.

[Lord Kamall (Con)]

My Lords, the noble Baroness, Lady Wheatcroft, alluded to the fact that sometimes patients would be more effectively treated through social prescribing, or cultural and arts prescribing. What advice is given to GPs to make them aware of cultural, art and music therapy in solving or tackling depression?

[Lord Markham (Con)]

I agree that we have to make sure that GPs are equipped with the full range of tools for the job and the full range of knowledge. We are probably all aware of some instances of GPs who are very aware and progressive in this space, and others where they do not have that same level of information. We are putting a £2.3 billion increase in 2023-24 into the mental health space to treat an extra 2 million people. We need to make sure that we have a range of help that we can put in place for these people.

[Baroness Altmann (Con)]

My Lords, I echo the words of my noble friend that GPs are absolutely critical to sorting out these issues, and the Dame Carol Black review on overprescribing presumably will look into that too. Does he agree that one of the problems that urgently needs to be sorted is the pension issues that are driving our GPs to retire early? Might we look forward to some early resolution of that problem?

[Lord Markham (Con)]

I am very aware of the issue. Funnily enough, just today I had a meeting on this with the noble Baroness, Lady Finlay. It is something on which we are working closely with Treasury and other officials.