Oral Answers to Questions

David Lidington Excerpts

Tuesday 31st October 2017 Commons Chamber

[Alex Burghart (Brentwood and Ongar) (Con)]

3. What assessment he has made of the effectiveness of community sentences in reducing rates of reoffending.

[The Lord Chancellor and Secretary of State for Justice (Mr David Lidington)]

The reoffending rate for community sentences has been coming down since 2005. The latest figures show that 34% of adults given a community order or a suspended sentence order go on to reoffend. This evidence shows that community sentences are more effective at reducing reoffending than short-term prison sentences are.

[Alex Burghart]

I very much welcome the figures that were published on Thursday showing that recidivism was coming down for people on community sentences. However, about a third of people on community sentences do still reoffend, so will the Secretary of State consider the “swift and certain” programmes in the United States that have had considerable effect in reducing recidivism?

[Mr Lidington]

I am certainly keen to learn from best practice not just in the United States but in other jurisdictions around the world. What was striking about some of last week’s figures was that they showed that offenders who underwent drug or alcohol treatment in this country showed a 33% reduction in the number of offences they committed in the following two years. That is a lesson we can learn from.

[Mr David Lammy (Tottenham) (Lab)]

May I recommend to the Minister my proposal of deferred prosecutions, which also gets to the community responses that can reduce recidivism? That is among the recommendations I made in the review that the Government asked for.

[Mr Lidington]

I reiterate to the right hon. Gentleman the Government’s appreciation for the work that he put into the review. We shall be responding in detail to his recommendations, including the one that he mentioned.

[Mr Philip Hollobone (Kettering) (Con)]

But is it not the case that according to the Ministry of Justice’s own figures, there is a direct correlation between the length of a prison sentence and the likelihood of an offender reoffending? In other words, the longer that somebody spends in prison, the less likely it is that they are going to reoffend.

[Mr Lidington]

It is true that short-term sentences appear to have the least effect in reduced reoffending, but the comparison with them is with alternative community sentences, which are available for that similar type of crime. Those community sentences work best when they link up with services such as drug and alcohol treatment programmes sometimes provided by other authorities in the community.

[Richard Burgon (Leeds East) (Lab)]

I think the whole House will agree that community sentences function only when magistrates have trust in the people supervising them. Last year, thousands of community sentences were served in London alone. Will the Secretary of State therefore commit today to an urgent independent review of the performance of the London company responsible for supervising many of these community sentences in London, following the revelations in last week’s “Panorama” investigation that the London CRC—community rehabilitation company—had failed to act on 15,000 missed appointments over 16 months?

[Mr Lidington]

Of course, as the hon. Gentleman knows, the company responsible has denied some of the claims that were made in the “Panorama” programme. None the less, it is quite clear that missed appointments are a serious matter. We expect the London CRC, like other CRCs, to take appropriate action. I believe that in the independent inspectorate of probation we have precisely the kind of independent body that he has called for. It is currently looking again at London and we look forward to its next report.

[Richard Burgon]

I hear the Secretary of State’s reassurances about the delivery of community sentences by the so-called CRCs, but for us to be absolutely sure about this, I argue that we need to know the advice that the Minister has had about the failure of the CRCs. The “Panorama” documentary revealed an in-house MOJ paper warning of the risks of handing much of the supervision of community sentences to the private sector through the privatisation of probation. Will the Secretary of State make that memo public, so that we and the House can ensure that those flaws are being tackled?

[Mr Lidington]

I think the hon. Gentleman is referring to a document that was produced some years ago. It is important now that in addressing the underperformance of some areas of the probation service, we act on the recommendations from the independent probation inspectorate and seek, through the contractual mechanism, to drive up standards to where the public would expect them to be.

[Alan Brown (Kilmarnock and Loudoun) (SNP)]

4. What assessment his Department has made of the effect of the UK leaving the EU on the legal system of each legal jurisdiction.

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[Fiona Bruce (Congleton) (Con)]

7. What steps the Government are taking to empower prison governors.

[The Lord Chancellor and Secretary of State for Justice (Mr David Lidington)]

We have given governors greater freedom over their prison’s daily routine and timetable, staffing and family services. We intend to give governors control of areas such as education and training provision. As other current contracts expire, I will look for opportunities to devolve further powers.

[Fiona Bruce]

There were 21 recommendations in the Farmer review and Ministers have made the welcome commitment to implement them all. What further support and incentives are being given to prison governors, as they have increased autonomy within their prisons, to ensure that that implementation happens on the ground?

[Mr Lidington]

The budgets have already been devolved to governors, enabling them to commission family services that are tailored to the specific needs of their prisoners. I have seen examples of that when visiting HMP Parc and HMP Bronzefield. Governors will be supported in future by new family services guidance, which will incorporate elements of Lord Farmer’s report, in the hope that they will all develop best practice.

[Mohammad Yasin (Bedford) (Lab)]

A recent independent monitoring board report confirmed that the riot at Bedford Prison last year was caused by “chronic understaffing” and “poor systems”. Improvements have been made while the prison has operated at half capacity, but will the Minister assure me today that the same problems will not happen again once the prison is operating at full capacity?

[Mr Lidington]

I am sure that the hon. Gentleman will welcome the fact that we are about halfway towards recruiting the additional 2,500 prison officers that my predecessor, my right hon. Friend the Member for South West Norfolk (Elizabeth Truss), announced about a year ago. If he has particular concerns about a specific prison, I am sure that my hon. Friend the Prisons Minister will be happy to discuss them with him.

[Michael Tomlinson (Mid Dorset and North Poole) (Con)]

I warmly welcome the commitment of the Secretary of State and the Prisons Minister to implementing the Farmer review in full. They have acknowledged the important link between family ties and rehabilitation. Now that prison governors are being further empowered, what more can be done to ensure that that is rolled out across the whole prison estate?

[Mr Lidington]

One thing that has struck me since being appointed to this role in the Government is that we need to get better at ensuring that the best, most successful practices in prisons are disseminated rapidly and widely. One means of doing that is to ensure that there is additional support for individual prison governors at regional level, so that they have experienced mentors available to them—particularly for new governors. I hope that that shift will help deliver the change that my hon. Friend seeks.

[Richard Burgon (Leeds East) (Lab)]

Governors cite the outsourcing of facilities management, maintenance and repairs as something that undermines their ability to manage important elements within their prisons. Labour has announced a review, working with prison governors, to identify private service contracts that can be brought back in-house to save the taxpayer money and, at the same time, improve prison conditions. Will the Government also commit to review those contracts?

[Mr Lidington]

As I said in answer to my hon. Friend the Member for Congleton (Fiona Bruce), as existing contracts expire, we shall seek new opportunities to devolve powers to governors and to clusters of prisons. Along with Prison Service headquarters, they will then have to strike the appropriate balance between the local provisioning of services and the need to secure the best value for taxpayers’ money.

[Jim McMahon (Oldham West and Royton) (Lab/Co-op)]

8. Whether the Government plan to respond to the findings of the European Parliament’s Committee on Petitions in December 2014 on the treatment of Cammell Laird strikers in 1984.

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[The Lord Chancellor and Secretary of State for Justice (Mr David Lidington)]

We changed CRC contracts earlier this year to better reflect the fixed costs that they were incurring. However, payments to CRCs are still below our original forecasts.

[David Hanson]

I am grateful for that answer. Will the Lord Chancellor and Secretary of State publish how much additional resource he has given to CRC companies in total, which CRC companies have received that additional resource, and what he intends them to do with the product they have been given?

[Mr Lidington]

The answer to the right hon. Gentleman’s last question is that we expect them to use that money to improve the delivery of services and to match the best CRCs, such as Cumbria, which recently received a very impressive report from the inspectorate. We did not award the CRCs a specific sum, but agreed to alter the contracts in such a way that we accepted a greater proportion of their costs as fixed. The figure of £277 million that is in public circulation is an estimate of how that adjustment might increase the total contract value, but that is based on certain assumptions about volumes and payment by results, and I reiterate that payments will still be well within the forecast budget.

[Mr Speaker]

I think that the House has savoured the treatise from the Secretary of State, and we are deeply obliged to him.

I call Stephen Morgan. He is not here. Peter Kyle? Not here either. Where are these fellows? How extraordinary. Well, all is not ill with the world because the hon. Member for Banbury (Victoria Prentis) is here.

[Victoria Prentis (Banbury) (Con)]

23. What steps the Government are taking to reform the youth justice system.

[The Lord Chancellor and Secretary of State for Justice (Mr David Lidington)]

We outlined our plans to reform youth justice in response to Charlie Taylor’s review last December. Since then we have created a new youth custody service that is responsible for the day-to-day running of the youth estate and committed £64 million towards its reform.

[Victoria Prentis]

The Justice Committee heard this morning that a third of people on jobseeker’s allowance have criminal records. What further steps is the Secretary of State taking to ban the box?

[Mr Lidington]

The Ministry of Justice is trying to set an example by banning the box and treating ex-offenders on a par with any other applicant for a job. That example is being widely followed throughout the public service, and we look to the private sector to match it, because we believe that ex-offenders can contribute a great deal to the successful work of private sector companies.

[Daniel Zeichner (Cambridge) (Lab)]

T1. If he will make a statement on his departmental responsibilities.

[The Lord Chancellor and Secretary of State for Justice (Mr David Lidington)]

Since the last Justice questions, it has been my pleasure to welcome the appointment of Lord Burnett of Maldon as Lord Chief Justice of England and Wales, and the historic appointment of Baroness Hale as President of the Supreme Court of the United Kingdom. Where she leads we hope that many others will follow. I look forward to working with them both to ensure that the judiciary’s essential role at the heart our nation continues to be championed and respected.

Further to the comments made a few moments ago by the Under-Secretary of State for Justice, my hon. Friend the Member for Bracknell (Dr Lee), about the new guidance issued by the Criminal Injuries Compensation Authority, I can tell Members that I have asked my Department to give full consideration to wider concerns that have been expressed in the House about the rules of the compensation scheme as part of my Department’s work to develop a strategy for victims, and in the light of recommendations we expect next year from the independent inquiry into child sexual abuse.

[Daniel Zeichner]

After last week’s “Panorama” investigation into the dangerous failings of the privatisation of probation, will the Minister halt any plans to outsource night-time supervision in probation hostels?

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[Robert Jenrick (Newark) (Con)]

The exceptionally high cost to businesses of commercial litigation is good for commercial lawyers—perhaps I should declare an interest—but it is not good for businesses, whether they are large or small. One answer that has recently been developed is the use of commercial litigation financing. Will my right hon. Friend the Lord Chancellor look into ethical and other concerns surrounding that, as outlined by Lord Faulks in the other place recently?

[Mr Lidington]

We will be happy to look into that and to take account of any representations that my hon. Friend wishes to make.

[Ian Austin (Dudley North) (Lab)]

T2. Why are the Government planning to give security companies and bailiffs the power of arrest, because that will be the result of privatising the collection of court fees? A petition opposing those plans has been signed by 16,000 people because they do not believe that either 150 jobs, or the safety and finances of vulnerable people, should be put at risk.

[Mr Lidington]

These are not in fact new powers; they have been in use across the country for many years. They apply to arrests relating to debt and community penalty breaches, and they must follow the issue of a warrant of arrest from the criminal courts. Any use of these powers is overseen by Her Majesty’s Courts and Tribunals Service.

[Philip Davies (Shipley) (Con)]

Following the triumph of the Conservative manifesto at the election, may I congratulate the Lord Chancellor on finding another half-baked and unpopular policy to put before the electorate: giving prisoners the vote? Will he acknowledge that nobody is taking the vote away from prisoners—they are taking it away from themselves? If voting is so important to them, perhaps they should not commit the crimes that lead to them being sent to prison in the first place. I urge him to reject this ridiculous policy, which goes down like a lead balloon with the electorate.

[Mr Lidington]

The Government are preparing their position ahead of the December meeting of the Committee of Ministers of the Council of Europe. We will announce any changes in our position to Parliament in the usual way.

[Matt Western (Warwick and Leamington) (Lab)]

T3. What steps are the Department taking to ensure that there is adequate funding for youth justice services in places such as Warwickshire, which has seen significant funding cuts?

[Lucy Allan (Telford) (Con)]

Tomorrow sees the release of Mubarek Ali, who is a serial child sexual exploitation offender in Telford. Will the Secretary of State please confirm whether all that should be done has been done to protect the public and the victims concerned?

[Mr Lidington]

To the best of my knowledge, that has been done. Mr Ali is, of course, being released in accordance with the law having served the term that was set out by the judge in his case for the purposes of punishment and deterrence. However, if my hon. Friend or her constituents have any concerns about the circumstances of the release and the supervision arrangements that should follow, I ask her to bring them to my attention without delay.

[Chris Elmore (Ogmore) (Lab)]

T4. Sixty-one per cent. of women who leave prison after a sentence of less than 12 months are reconvicted in the first year. In my recent Westminster Hall debate on women leaving prison, the Minister made various commitments about new interventions and various reviews to support women in prison and those leaving it. When will those reviews be complete? When will there be a better, fuller programme to support women in and leaving prison?

[Sir Peter Bottomley (Worthing West) (Con)]

May I invite the Minister to join me in saying to our hon. Friend the Member for Shipley (Philip Davies) that most people in prison never voted and are unlikely to vote when they come out? By making it compulsory for them to register to vote, they are far more likely to think about other people, not just themselves.

[Mr Lidington]

We hope that all prisoners will be fully integrated into society when they come to be released from prison and will lead a law-abiding life of constructive citizenship. As I said a few moments ago, the Government will make clear their approach at the forthcoming Committee of Ministers meeting and in an announcement to Parliament in the usual fashion.

[Jo Swinson (East Dunbartonshire) (LD)]

T7. Some 54,000 women lose their jobs each year due to pregnancy and maternity discrimination. The Secretary of State may remember the chaos of the early weeks of caring for a newborn, but the time limit for bringing an employment tribunal claim is just three months, so will he look again at this issue, as recommended by the Women and Equalities Committee, the Justice Committee and the Equality and Human Rights Commission, and extend the time limit for claims related to pregnancy and maternity discrimination?

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[Mr Dominic Grieve (Beaconsfield) (Con)]

I welcome the news that the Government are again considering prisoners’ right to vote. My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State may find that this is a matter on which public opinion and the mood in this House has shifted. It is high time that we remedied something that places us in a very small category of countries. Most countries manage to allow their prisoners to vote—certainly those sentenced to short terms of imprisonment—without the world coming to an end, and it is an important tool for both civic participation and rehabilitation.

[Mr Lidington]

My right hon. and learned Friend expresses a view that he has held for a long time and has been clear about, and I am sure that he will be following the debate closely. When the Government have reached a view on our approach to the Committee of Ministers meeting, we will share that with Parliament.

[Liz Kendall (Leicester West) (Lab)]

T8. The Government have new proposals to limit legal costs and damages recovered in clinical negligence cases. Patient groups are extremely concerned this will mean serious cases involving older people, child deaths and stillbirths will be impossible to pursue. Will the Minister meet me and those groups to hear their concerns and to sort out the proposals?

[Mr Lidington]

Serious and sensitive though that matter undoubtedly is, it falls in large part to the Department of Health, but either myself or the Minister of State would be happy to discuss it further with the hon. Lady.

[Suella Fernandes (Fareham) (Con)]

Following my ten-minute rule Bill in March calling for the reform of family law, including a robust enforcement of child arrangements orders, opening up the family courts in care proceedings and updating our anachronistic divorce laws, what progress have the Government made on their family law review, which was announced in the summer?

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[Robert Neill (Bromley and Chislehurst) (Con)]

The reputation of our legal system partly depends on our respect for our international obligations. In advance of the Committee of Ministers, will my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State bear in mind that respecting the judgments of the European Court of Justice is a better guide for this country’s reputation than the amateur jurisprudence of the Dog and Duck?

[Mr Lidington]

The rule of law is at the heart of this country’s constitutional traditions and is expressed in the oath that I and every Lord Chancellor has to take. My hon. Friend will recall that the manifesto on which he, I and other Conservative colleagues stood earlier this year committed us to remaining party to the European convention on human rights for the remainder of this Parliament.

[Ellie Reeves (Lewisham West and Penge) (Lab)]

The recently published Bach commission report highlighted a number of serious issues relating to access to justice, including representation at inquests. In the light of tragic events such as Grenfell Tower and Hillsborough, will the Minister commit to providing legal aid for inquests in all cases when the state is funding one or more of the other parties?