Iraq Inquiry
Dominic Grieve Excerpts(9 years, 3 months ago)
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Mr Dominic Grieve (Beaconsfield) (Con)
It is always a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Bradford West (George Galloway), who made a very powerful speech. He touched on some really serious and important issues surrounding the process of making the decisions on which we went to war in 2003. I hope that he will forgive me if I do not follow him on that, but concentrate on one or two discrete matters on which I may be able to help the House.
I find the current delay in the publication of the Chilcot report very regrettable. The mere fact that we are having this debate highlights the growing public unease about how the inquiry has been conducted and how the report has been handled. Almost inevitably, that will have the knock-on consequence of reducing trust in its conclusions.
The irony is that everything I saw in my time in government—limited as it was—suggests that Sir John Chilcot has been trying to produce an extremely thorough report and, indeed, that he is leaving no stone unturned, even at the cost of embarrassing those who may be criticised. It troubles me even more to see a process that I certainly do not think will prove to be meaningless undermined by a delay that is in no one’s interest.
I am quite satisfied from my time in government that my ministerial colleagues in the Government have no role at all to play in the inquiry, and are not in a position to influence its progress. Suggestions that there may be some political motivation either for them or, for that matter, for witnesses who have given evidence to the inquiry are completely without foundation.
The difficulty that seems to me to have arisen is the lack of explanation of why the delays have accumulated. As my right hon. Friend the Member for Haltemprice and Howden (Mr Davis) said, it was made quite clear at the outset that there was a timetable on which the inquiry was designed to run. It is also quite clear that that timetable has not been followed.
It has been suggested—rightly, from what I know of the matter—that a lot of the delays following the conclusion of the evidence sessions relate to what documentation can or cannot be published. Before it is said that that may somehow be suspicious, let me say that it was probably inherent in the inquiry that the documentation would cause difficulties. Conspiracy theorists might say that the documents are not being published because they will give rise to embarrassment, but I have very little doubt that issues of national security and of international relations will arise in relation to some of them, and those issues cannot be lightly brushed to one side. Sir John has undoubtedly had to wrestle with that matter.
I can only give the House an impression, but my impression when I left office was that such problems had been resolved. Of course, I may have been mistaken, but it was certainly my understanding by early 2014—indeed, this was suggested by facts communicated publicly—that the inquiry could move on to the Maxwellisation process.
As so often happens in government, there has perhaps been a tendency for Sir Humphrey-isms to creep in. I noted with amusement that when, on 8 September 2014, Sir Jeremy Heywood was questioned at a one-off session by the House of Commons Public Administration Committee, he said:
“There has been a delay of sorts as we processed tens of thousands of requests for declassification of very complicated and sensitive documents. I don’t think that has held up the inquiry. It is a very difficult thing. The controversy around this continues today. It is very important that the whole story is told.”
As I have already said, I have no doubt—this is my impression—that Sir John Chilcot’s wishes the whole story to be told, but the fact remains that there is an internal contradiction in Sir Jeremy Heywood’s statement. If the processing of “tens of thousands” of requests was complicated and has caused “a delay of sorts”, I do not see how that cannot have been one of the factors holding up the inquiry. I would have thought that that was capable of clarification.
The issue that has caused me most concern—it is why I supported and signed the original motion—relates to what has happened since last year. My understanding was that it would have been possible, despite the delays, for the matter to be concluded by the end of 2012. That was my impression, which is all I can call it, when I was in government. I therefore find it strange, in almost February 2015, to find from what others have said that the Maxwellisation process is going so very slowly. I would have hoped that it could be resolved earlier.
Steve Baker (Wycombe) (Con)
I know that my right hon. and learned Friend’s remarks will be closely followed outside the House. For those not familiar with the term, will he confirm that Maxwellisation is the opportunity given to people who are going to be criticised in a report to defend themselves before it is published?
Mr Grieve
Yes, my hon. Friend is right. Maxwellisation provides people with the opportunity to respond to passages in a report that relate to them. In such circumstances, a reasonable period needs to be allowed for the process.
The point made by the right hon. Member for Blackburn (Mr Straw) is valid: if it is many years since a witness gave their evidence, it will take them longer to consider their response than if the process occurs a few weeks afterwards. However, I would still hope that a period of a few months was sufficient to conclude the process. That was why I was surprised, first, that the report was not published at the end of 2012 and, secondly—I must say that I am even more troubled by this—that we will not get it before the next general election.
Mr Jenkin
I will commit the sin of asking a question in the House to which I do not know the answer. Why is it called Maxwellisation? We used to talk about Salmon letters.? Is this process different or more protracted, and is it an opportunity for lawyers to extend the process for which they are paid?
Mr Grieve
The terms mean one and the same thing. As with so many descriptions used in government, there is no difference between them. They started out as Salmon letters, but since Mr Maxwell’s experience the process has been described as Maxwellisation. I am sure that either term can be used.
Is Maxwellisation an opportunity for lawyers to crawl over the report? I hope not. At the end of the day, it gives the person going to be criticised an opportunity to explain whether they agree or disagree with the criticisms, and in the light of any representations made it gives the inquiry members an opportunity to think about whether they wish to change their conclusions.
I must say, however, that the report is not ultimately holy writ. It will obviously have a marked effect, but it is the opinion of the inquiry. As long as the opinion has been arrived at reasonably and the process has been fair, the inquiry has to go ahead and produce its conclusions. Disagreements should not therefore lead to endless ping-pong. At some point, the inquiry has to come to a conclusion about whether or not it wishes to accept a representation. That is why I would not expect a Maxwellisation process to go on endlessly.
What has made me anxious is my impression that the Maxwellisation process seems hardly to have begun in many cases. For me, that raises these questions: has a further problem over the documentation led to the delays or has some other phenomenon crept in and caused the delays, and why has the Maxwellisation process taken so long to commence?
Mr Jenkin
As the inquiry is not a judicial one, do its findings have the legal immunity required to protect the authors of the report from judicial proceedings if they publish something defamatory or deeply unfair? Is that part of the reason why the process is taking longer?
Mr Grieve
I can see where my hon. Friend is coming from, but his question goes into the realms of speculation. On the face of it, if the inquiry, which has been properly set up and conducted, makes a report—a Privy Council report—to Parliament, I do not see why such an issue should arise. My concern is to get an explanation.
Mr Jim Cunningham (Coventry South) (Lab)
In 2012, the right hon. and learned Gentleman was in government and he had the impression that the inquiry would report at that time. He was still in government after 2012. What impression did he have then about the delays?
Mr Grieve
No, I should not. I am mindful of my responsibilities and I want to help the House as much as I can.
I simply make two points to the hon. Member for Coventry South (Mr Cunningham). First, I saw nothing in my time in government to suggest that Sir John Chilcot is not trying to be absolutely thorough or that he is being diverted from his conclusions in any way by external pressures from anyone. Secondly, it is quite clear, because it is public knowledge, that after 2011 there was a substantial difficulty over the documentation because of its nature. That was an inherent difficulty and I would not read into it any conspiracy theories or adverse view whatsoever—it just had to be resolved. The point that I am making is that it was my impression at the time I left office that, despite those difficulties, it ought to have been possible to publish the inquiry by the end of last year. Therefore, the further delay causes me concern.
I am pleased to hear that my right hon. Friend the Member for Croydon South (Sir Richard Ottaway) will have Sir John Chilcot in front of him next week, because that will provide an opportunity for the clarification that is needed to restore public confidence in the way in which the inquiry is being conducted. For the reasons that I have set out, it really is in the public interest that there should be public confidence in the process. The public are entitled to have the conclusions on something that was done—I am the first to admit this, having voted in 2003 for military action—on a series of flawed premises.
Mr Simpson
No, I do not. I have to say, with the greatest respect to my right hon. and learned Friend the Member for Beaconsfield (Mr Grieve), the former Attorney-General, that my heart sinks every time I hear we are going to have lawyer-led inquiries. Ironically, despite the suspicion that it would be a cover-up, I actually think it is a great pity that we cannot have a parliamentary-led inquiry. There is enough talent in both Houses—experienced men and women—for Parliament to elect a person to chair such an inquiry and for the resources to be allocated. I would like to see that. That does not get around the length of timetable.
Mr Simpson
I, of course, accept that from my right hon. and learned Friend. In my opinion, it is a great pity he is no longer Attorney-General—[Hon. Members: “Hear, hear.”]—but that is above my pay scale, as they say.
How can we help my hon. Friend the Member for Penrith and The Border (Rory Stewart), the Chair of the Foreign Affairs Committee, in his approach towards questioning Sir John Chilcot? One way around the problem is to suggest to Sir John Chilcot—other colleagues have touched on this—that he puts into the public domain, when he publishes his report, a lot of the correspondence and communications that went on between his inquiry, the Cabinet Office and various other organisations. My experience as a military historian is that when the official histories were published on the first and second world wars, they were interesting, but it was not until 30 years later that we were actually able to see the correspondence between official historians, individual commanders and others. We could then see how at times the official historians stood up to pressure, but how at other times things were massaged. I would be particularly interested to see the e-mails, correspondence and telephone conversations between Margaret Aldred, who ran the secretariat, Sir Jeremy Heywood and perhaps members of the Cabinet Office. That may be beyond his remit.
My final point is that we are where we are. When Sir John Chilcot publishes his inquiry, he will have a press conference. I assume that the Prime Minister of the day will make a statement, with questions and answers, but it is very important indeed that we have a full debate in both Houses, not immediately or on the next day, but within about three or four days. A report consisting of 1 million words will be a lot for us to consider. I do not blame Sir John Chilcot. I am not a man who sees a great conspiracy behind this, but I believe in transparency. It is about not just learning lessons, but trying to establish the truth.
Iraq: Coalition Against ISIL
Dominic Grieve Excerpts(9 years, 7 months ago)
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Mr Dominic Grieve (Beaconsfield) (Con)
It is my intention when the House divides this afternoon—if it does divide—to support the Government’s motion, but in doing so I am very mindful, having listened to the hon. Member for Birmingham, Perry Barr (Mr Mahmood), my hon. Friend the Member for Gravesham (Mr Holloway)—indeed, even the hon. Member for Bradford West (George Galloway), had he not treated the House as the recipient of a human foghorn—that they had some important points to make. A note of caution needs to be sounded about what we are trying to do.
The Prime Minister made a powerful case. First, he said that ISIL is a threat to this country directly. I have no doubt that he is right about that. Having spent the first six months of this year signing off consents for the prosecution of young people returning from Syria, where they had served and trained with ISIL—and, in some circumstances with clear evidence, it seemed to me, that they had participated in atrocities—I am perfectly alive to the fact that that threat is real. However, I sound this note of caution. Simply bombing ISIL—whether in Syria, or Iraq, as we are planning to do—is not going to make that threat go away. Even if we ultimately get rid of the ungoverned space, the threat will remain unless or until civil society exists within the Muslim world of a kind that provides a model of how people can co-exist peacefully. We face a challenge domestically, which we must not shirk, in persuading people that that peaceful co-existence exists here and they should not be inclined to emulate what they see in the middle east.
The second factor, and for me the most persuasive, is the genocide being perpetrated in northern Iraq and Syria. This country has a long history of international involvement, and although we may be able to make only a small contribution, I find it difficult to see how we should sit on our hands when a barbarous group of individuals perpetrates the kind of crimes we see daily on our screens. If we can make a contribution to dealing with that, the justification for military intervention is there.
Mr David Burrowes (Enfield, Southgate) (Con)
My right hon. and learned Friend is making a compelling case. Would he advise the House that the legal principle of the responsibility to protect in relation to genocide has a wider application that goes beyond the Iraqi borders into Syria?
Mr Grieve
I am grateful to my hon. Friend—that is precisely the point to which I was about to come.
I have not the slightest doubt that the legal framework exists to take action in support of the Iraqi Government, at their request, to deal with ISIL. I am clear that the legal base is present for that, and the House should not be concerned on that issue. Equally, so far as action in Syria is concerned, should the Government ever be minded to pursue that option and the House to debate it, the preconditions for action in Syria are also present: first, because of the right to self-defence of the Iraqi Government when some of the attacks are clearly coming across the Syrian border; and secondly, because of the doctrine of humanitarian necessity in terms of intervention to protect the population in northern Syria from ISIL’s attacks—something we have seen in recent days in the Kurdish villages by the Turkish border.
In his speech, the Leader of the Opposition rightly raised the question whether, on that latter point, there should be a resolution of the United Nations Security Council. There is no doubt that it has an important role to play in issues concerning humanitarian necessity, but the Government will at least have to consider whether any application, if it were to come, to the UN for such a resolution has any prospect of success. The ability to intervene, I have no doubt, exists, even if no such resolution is present.
However, the Leader of the Opposition’s comments and those of other Members highlight one of the really important challenges we face. The fact that the framework for legal intervention is present will not necessarily mean that the intervention that subsequently takes place meets the criteria of lawfulness. It has to be reasonable, necessary and proportionate to the aim that has to be achieved. In that, I can well understand the Government’s making a distinction between the situation in Syria and that in Iraq. Even in the context of Iraq, there are some pretty serious challenges. Some of our partners—including particularly the Iraqi Government—have a rather chequered human rights record. We must avoid being party to the ill treatment of prisoners, to the massacre of prisoners, or indeed to any action on the battlefield that could take place that we might facilitate by our aerial intervention. I trust that the Government have looked carefully at that in finding ways of co-operating.
Mr Grieve
I will not; I must finish.
The moment one looks at that issue, it becomes immediately apparent why the situation in Syria is likely to be so much more challenging. Having made those comments, I would like to emphasise that the fact that there are challenges—be they legal or ethical—is not a reason for doing nothing. Precisely because we have a tradition in this country of observing the rule of law and of maintaining human rights, even in a battlefield context, and because we have an interest in ensuring that civil society is facilitated in an area that has been so singularly deprived of it, we have a duty to take action. What this motion enables us to do is to give the Government the framework in which that can occur.
EU Council, Security and Middle East
Dominic Grieve Excerpts(9 years, 8 months ago)
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The Prime Minister
I am disappointed that the right hon. Lady is disappointed, because when it comes to the issue of countering the extremist narrative, there are few people in any part of the House with whom I agree more. When we look at what the extremism taskforce achieved in terms of countering radicalisation in prisons, on campuses, in schools and, indeed, by working with Muslim organisations that want to deal with this problem—for instance by giving them legal assistance in throwing the extremists out of mosques or community centres—we see all those things are happening, but I will look to see what more can be done.
Mr Dominic Grieve (Beaconsfield) (Con)
May I congratulate my right hon. Friend on the broad thrust of his statement? But I have to say that I share the concern that has been expressed about the suggestion that British nationals, however horribly they may be alleged to have behaved, should be prevented from returning to this country. That would offend not only principles of international law, but basic principles of our own common law. I recommend to him that the best course must be to bring these individuals to justice, and he may wish to confirm to the House that we have actually been quite successful in doing just that over the past nine months.
The Prime Minister
My right hon. and learned Friend is absolutely right to say that our first approach should be trying to prosecute and convict people in our country. As he says, the courts—and the police and intelligence services—have been successful on that. The most important thing is to make sure, in listening to the intelligence services and the police, that any gaps in the armoury are properly addressed. That is why we are looking at the terrorism prevention and investigation measures and introducing this passport confiscation measure, but it is important that we discuss the issue of returnees as well.
Oral Answers to Questions
Dominic Grieve Excerpts(9 years, 10 months ago)
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Roberta Blackman-Woods (City of Durham) (Lab)
5. What recent discussions he had with the Director of Public Prosecutions about tackling regional variations in conviction rates.
The Attorney-General (Mr Dominic Grieve)
The Crown Prosecution Service delivers a reliable and consistent service, achieving an overall conviction rate of 85% or above in each of the past four years. The CPS is introducing new casework quality standards and standard operating procedures to seek to ensure that a consistent approach to quality is adopted across each CPS area.
Kelvin Hopkins
I thank the Attorney-General for his answer, but prosecution and conviction rates for rape and other sexual crimes in particular vary widely across the country. What are the Government going to do to seek to ensure that all such crimes are prosecuted and convictions achieved, wherever the crimes occur?
The Attorney-General
There are indeed some regional variations, although overall when looked at in the round they are perhaps less significant than might be appreciated. However, the CPS has put a great deal of effort into prioritising cases of violence against women and girls, including rape. I am satisfied that, particularly when one looks at those areas that have had the lowest performances—London is a good example of this—the efforts that have been made recently, particularly by Baljit Ubhey, the new Chief Crown Prosecutor, should, with the reviews that have taken place, lead to significant improvements, and indeed they already have.
Roberta Blackman-Woods
I am sure that the Attorney-General would like to join me in congratulating Durham CPS on achieving a conviction rate of almost 82%. What is he doing to support Durham in sharing that best practice, so that we can get an overall improvement in conviction rates, which is very much needed?
The Attorney-General
I seek to support Durham CPS in a number of ways. First, I go to visit Durham CPS; it has been a pleasure to visit its area offices. Secondly, I have a dialogue with the Director of Public Prosecutions on a monthly basis, and if necessary more frequently, when we keep the statistics under review. I have often said that statistics can sometimes become a bit misleading if one becomes obsessed with them, but they are a very good benchmark of quality. Linked to that is the feedback that we get. Equally, what I pick up through the unduly lenient sentence system enables me to evaluate whether the system is working properly in the case of court presentation.
For all those reasons, although I am certainly not complacent and I know that we constantly have to drive this agenda, I am satisfied that the CPS has performed outstandingly on overall conviction rates. On issues concerning rape and violence against women and girls, raised by the hon. Member for Luton North (Kelvin Hopkins), while I clearly have anxieties about areas where there may be lower rates, the performance overall seems, particularly in the hon. Lady’s area, to be very good indeed.
Richard Benyon (Newbury) (Con)
On his visits around different CPS offices, will my right hon. and learned Friend try to get a handle on whether there are regional variations in how we prosecute people who assault vulnerable people, particularly those with dementia? He will be aware of a constituent case of mine, where the public interest test was cited as the reason for not taking forward a prosecution of an assault on someone with dementia. That has caused great concern. Will my right hon. and learned Friend look into this?
The Attorney-General
Yes, I am happy to look into it. I am aware of the case, but my hon. Friend will not be entirely surprised that in addition to that I do not think I can give him an answer about the statistics. If we can find some figures on that type of offence to see whether there are variations, I will provide him with that information.
Stephen Mosley (City of Chester) (Con)
Not only conviction rates are important; referrals to the CPS also show huge variations. Cheshire tops the table, with 65% of rape allegations being passed to the CPS and 33% of domestic violence incidents being reported to the CPS, but in Warwickshire the figure is only 3.5%. Has my right hon. and learned Friend given any consideration to regional variations in reporting to the CPS?
The Attorney-General
The Government as a whole are giving a great deal of attention to regional variations in reporting. The Prime Minister and the Home Secretary have both made this a priority issue. Indeed, I am also aware that the Opposition have taken this issue very seriously, as we all should. There are reviews of why there might be inconsistencies in the reference rates. I wish to see those evened out. I also wish to see the agenda driven forward, as indeed I know does the Director of Public Prosecutions, and as did his predecessor.
Rehman Chishti (Gillingham and Rainham) (Con)
2. On how many occasions he has referred a criminal sentence to the Court of Appeal as unduly lenient in the last 12 months.
The Attorney-General (Mr Dominic Grieve)
In the period from 1 July 2013 to 4 July 2014 the sentences of 105 offenders were referred as unduly lenient and have either been heard or are due to be heard by the Court of Appeal. My office releases annual statistics for unduly lenient sentence referrals from the previous calendar year, and my office will release the 2013 statistics in the near future.
Rehman Chishti
I am grateful to the Attorney-General for that answer. Can he clarify which type of offence has most often been referred to the Court of Appeal, and on how many occasions the Court of Appeal has increased the sentence? Will he confirm that his Department has received representations to review the sentence in the Rolf Harris case?
The Attorney-General
I can confirm that the Attorney-General’s office has received a request to review the sentence in the Rolf Harris case. I can give this clarification: for the same period, from 1 July 2013 to 30 June 2014, the type of offences most often referred to us are, indeed, sexual offences. That includes rape, indecent assault and assault by penetration and other offences. Thirty-one such cases were referred in that period, 25 of which have been heard, and all sentences have been increased. Six cases are yet to be heard.
Mr Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op)
I have referred cases from my own area to the right hon. and learned Gentleman’s office when I have thought that the sentence was unduly lenient. Is that a common practice? Does he receive that kind of information from large numbers of Members of Parliament?
The Attorney-General
I get some references from Members of Parliament. I do not have the exact figures, but in a given year we receive somewhere between 350 and 400 references. They come from everywhere, including MPs, and I would like to emphasise that if a Member of Parliament feels a sentence is unduly lenient, they should feel free to make such a reference. Each reference will be treated with equal weight, and whether I receive 600 references or one on one particular case, they will be given due consideration.
Greg Mulholland (Leeds North West) (LD)
Of course, we all want fewer references and fewer referrals, and much clearer sentencing guidelines and sentences that are fit for purpose. Can the right hon. and learned Gentleman give me and the House an assurance that that will be the case when we get the much-heralded review of sentences for criminal driving?
The Attorney-General
If I may say, the evidence is overwhelming that we are moving to greater consistency in sentencing. The Sentencing Council and the progressive rolling out of sentencing guidelines is an immensely helpful tool to judges in ensuring consistency in sentencing. In addition, if the judge has not explained any inconsistency with the guidance, that usually provides a good basis for my making a reference in those cases which are referable. I think we are moving in the right direction, and that progress is totally supported by the judiciary. I therefore hope that, as we move to new areas in which guidance is provided, the need for me to make references will go down.
Bridget Phillipson (Houghton and Sunderland South) (Lab)
4. What steps he plans to take to ensure that child abuse offences are prosecuted successfully.
Nic Dakin (Scunthorpe) (Lab)
6. What steps he is taking to ensure that offences against bribery laws are prosecuted successfully.
The Attorney-General (Mr Dominic Grieve)
The CPS is the principal prosecutor of domestic bribery, and the Serious Fraud Office has lead responsibility for enforcing the provisions of the Bribery Act 2010 in respect of overseas corruption. I hold regular meetings with the Director of Public Prosecutions and the director of the SFO to discuss issues affecting their respective organisations. I am satisfied that both organisations are well positioned to enforce bribery laws, as is well illustrated by the major investigations into cases of suspected foreign bribery that the SFO has commenced.
The Attorney-General
I do not think that the SFO does have to go cap in hand to the Treasury. The SFO can go to the Treasury for special funding. The difficulty has always been that some cases require a lot of funds, and if they are not being inquired into, the SFO is probably receiving more money in any given year than it needs. I accept that this is an issue, and the hon. Gentleman is right to raise it, but I am satisfied that the SFO has not been prevented by financing from investigating any cases it wishes. That is a good starting point.
Cathy Jamieson (Kilmarnock and Loudoun) (Lab/Co-op)
7. What recent estimate he has made of the total value of criminal assets subject to Serious Fraud Office confiscation orders that are hidden overseas.
Robert Jenrick (Newark) (Con)
8. What the Crown Prosecution Service is doing to ensure that adequate support is given to vulnerable witnesses in cases of sexual abuse or domestic violence.
The Attorney-General (Mr Dominic Grieve)
May I welcome my hon. Friend to Law Officers questions?
The Crown Prosecution Service works closely with the police and voluntary sector to ensure that vulnerable victims of sexual abuse and domestic violence are well supported. Special measures include: intermediaries; screening at court; and use of the video live link to help victims give their best evidence, supported by independent sexual violence advisers and domestic advisers who can guide them through the criminal justice process.
Robert Jenrick
Does my right hon. and learned Friend agree that new measures such as pre-recording evidence with vulnerable witnesses before a trial go a long way towards helping victims? Will he join me in thanking local organisations such as the Newark Women’s Aid and refuge which have campaigned on this for several years?
The Attorney-General
Yes, I am delighted to do so. I am also delighted to tell my hon. Friend that the Crown Prosecution Service in the east midlands is due to commence a pilot in Nottinghamshire shortly, whereby victims of domestic violence will be offered the chance to give evidence by video live link. A number of other measures have been put in place by the CPS to try to improve victims’ experience of going to court to give evidence in those very difficult cases.
Oral Answers to Questions
Dominic Grieve Excerpts(10 years ago)
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Fiona Bruce (Congleton) (Con)
2. What steps he is taking to ensure that cases of non-compliance with the law on abortion by practitioners and providers are prosecuted.
The Attorney-General (Mr Dominic Grieve)
The Crown Prosecution Service will review any cases referred to it by the police, in accordance with the two-stage test set out in the code for Crown prosecutors. Following observations by the former Director of Public Prosecutions, the Department of Health is developing further guidance for practitioners on the procedures to be followed when a woman requests an abortion, and that will be taken into account when future decisions are made about prosecutions.
Fiona Bruce
My right hon. and learned Friend will have seen reports arising from recent freedom of information releases about 67 doctors who pre-signed abortion certificates effectively authorising abortions without ever having seen or had any knowledge of the women involved. He will also be aware that the General Medical Council failed to report those cases to the police. Will he assure the House that they will now be dealt with by means of a thorough investigation and on a case-by-case basis? No one should be above the law, particularly in such cases.
The Attorney-General
I fully understand my hon. Friend’s concerns. She will appreciate that, in the first instance, this is a matter for investigation by the Metropolitan police, not the CPS, which, obviously, has no investigative capacity. Should the matter come to the CPS, it will indeed be considered on a case-by-case basis. She will be aware that when this matter has been before the House in the past, it has been pointed out that the essential ingredient is that a doctor has to act in good faith in the advice and opinion they give. If there is evidence that a doctor has not acted in good faith, that will clearly be one of the important evidential components taken into account when deciding whether any prosecution should be brought.
Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)
Accounts of abortion on the grounds of gender are of increasing concern to many in this House. Will the Attorney-General confirm that the strongest sanction possible will be brought against individuals, whoever they may be, who are implementing abortion on the grounds of gender?
The Attorney-General
I fully understand the hon. Gentleman’s concerns. I want to make it clear—as, indeed, I have made clear in the past—that, on abortion on the grounds of gender, we have to look at the question of the good faith involved in allowing such a thing to take place. The tests have been well explained by the previous DPP and any case in England and Wales would be viewed according to them. To make the position clear: abortion on demand, as it is sometimes described, is not provided for by the Abortion Act 1967.
Mr Philip Hollobone (Kettering) (Con)
What is the penalty for such an offence?
The Attorney-General
My hon. Friend takes me gently by surprise. I think it depends on the nature of the offence under the Abortion Act, but my recollection is that the procurement of an abortion illegally is a very serious offence. I will write to him as to the exact penalty.
Mr Speaker
I think the House would benefit from having a copy of the letter in the Library. We are grateful to the Attorney-General.
Mark Durkan (Foyle) (SDLP)
The Department of Health seems to advise that it would be okay if neither of the two signing doctors had actually seen the woman referred for an abortion. Does the Attorney-General believe that that is some distance from a strict reading of the 1967 Act?
The Attorney-General
As I understand the matter, the form exists so that two doctors may make an independent evaluation of whether the abortion is necessary for the health and well-being of the woman concerned. It seems to me, as a matter of logic, that that requires a conscious act of assessment. I leave it to the hon. Gentleman to work out whether a conscious act of assessment is going to take place on the pre-signed form.
Jeremy Lefroy (Stafford) (Con)
3. What steps the Crown Prosecution Service is taking to assist development of justice systems in developing countries.
The Attorney-General (Mr Dominic Grieve)
The Crown Prosecution Service works closely with the United Kingdom and international partners to deliver targeted justice assistance in developing countries of priority to UK national security. It does this on a range of important threats and topics, such as counter-narcotics, counter-terrorism, asset recovery and cyber-crime.
Jeremy Lefroy
I welcome that answer. What specifically is the CPS doing in countries that are experiencing high levels of conflict, particularly Afghanistan?
The Attorney-General
The CPS has until reasonably recently had an important programme in Afghanistan, although it is currently at an end. The programme enabled prosecutors to work with local counterparts to deal with narcotics and corruption investigations and prosecutions, one of which was the massive Kabul bank fraud, which saw two former bank chiefs convicted and jailed in March 2013. I visited that project when I was in Kabul.
In addition, there are projects in Nigeria, to which my hon. and learned Friend the Solicitor-General has referred and which have been complimented by the Chief Justice of Nigeria for speeding up the criminal process. There has also been a major project in the Indian ocean area that has led to 110 pirate cases being prosecuted by CPS prosecutors.
Hugh Bayley (York Central) (Lab)
Some crimes committed by British companies or British citizens can be tried in this country or in a foreign country if they are transnational financial crimes committed in a foreign country. What is the Crown Prosecution Service doing to equip developing countries with investigative mechanisms to ensure that more of those cases are tried in the countries in which the offences are committed?
The Attorney-General
It is important to understand that the Crown Prosecution Service has limited capacity, but it has prioritised for co-operation a series of overseas aid projects in a number of countries, including the United Arab Emirates, the ones I have just given, and St Vincent and the Grenadines. In addition, it is worth bearing in mind that the United Kingdom Government use the assistance of non-governmental organisations, such as the Slynn Foundation and the Bingham Centre for the Rule of Law, to provide capacity building as well. Simply to give an example, I have seen projects in the west bank being brought forward with the help of those organisations, so not just the Crown Prosecution Service can help in this area.
Graeme Morrice (Livingston) (Lab)
Corruption and bribery are major factors undermining the rule of law in many developing countries. However, the serious fraud squad has yet to land a secure conviction under the Bribery Act 2010. What steps has the Attorney-General taken to ensure that the agency has the resources it needs to investigate these important cases?
The Attorney-General
The director of the Serious Fraud Office is quite clear that, for him, bribery is a priority area. I am fairly confident, from the cases currently being investigated and looked at, that we will see such prosecutions brought successfully. In so far as resources are concerned, if there was any case in which he had difficulty in respect of resources and felt that he was not able to take it forward, he would certainly come to speak to me about it.
Mr William Bain (Glasgow North East) (Lab)
4. What recent assessment he has made of the effectiveness of the Serious Fraud Office.
The Attorney-General (Mr Dominic Grieve)
I meet the director of the Serious Fraud Office regularly to discuss the continuing progress that it is making under his leadership. The Serious Fraud Office underwent an inspection by Her Majesty’s Crown Prosecution Service inspectorate in 2012, at my request, and a follow-up inspection of the SFO is currently taking place. I will discuss the outcome of that inspection with the director following publication of the report.
Mr Bain
The year 2010 was the last in which a criminal sanction was imposed on a corporate defendant by the Serious Fraud Office. Does the Attorney-General agree with the Opposition and the director of the Serious Fraud Office, David Green QC, that there should be a review of our highly restrictive laws on corporate liability, with a view to securing more prosecutions?
The Attorney-General
I have great sympathy with the points raised by the hon. Gentleman. In my judgment, this is an area that ought to be looked at and on which there may, indeed, be a degree of consensus across the House. Of course, if we were to do that, we would also have to make sure that such a process operates in a fair and reasonable way, but I have to say that I have listened very carefully to what the director of the Serious Fraud Office has said, and it seems to me that his remarks have considerable force.
Ian Lucas (Wrexham) (Lab)
Last week, the work of the Serious Fraud Office was severely undermined when a case it was prosecuting was stayed. What discussions has the Attorney-General had with the Lord Chancellor to address that issue?
The Attorney-General
The case did not involve the Serious Fraud Office, but the Financial Conduct Authority. In the circumstances, that case is not a matter that I have had to discuss with the director of the Serious Fraud Office.
Emily Thornberry (Islington South and Finsbury) (Lab)
Yes, but the Attorney-General will agree that the rule of law means that no one is above the law. It is, of course, very important that those who commit complex fraud should be prosecuted as the common criminals they are. Will he not therefore take this opportunity to express his dismay at the fact that meticulous cases taken to court by the prosecuting authorities may be stopped because such people cannot be tried, because in turn they cannot be represented, because in turn there is insufficient legal aid? If the Attorney-General wished to have my support in his meeting with the Lord Chancellor to explain the rule of law, I would be very happy to help him.
The Attorney-General
As the specific case to which the hon. Lady refers is before the Court of Appeal and, therefore, sub judice, I will not comment on it. On the general point that she makes, I certainly agree that it is clearly in the public interest that alleged serious crime should be prosecuted. We will have to await the outcome of the case to see whether the resources that are made available in this instance are satisfactory.
Mr Robert Buckland (South Swindon) (Con)
6. What steps he is taking to raise awareness of the law relating to contempt of court.
Henry Smith (Crawley) (Con)
8. What steps he is taking to raise awareness of the law relating to contempt of court.
The Attorney-General (Mr Dominic Grieve)
Since taking office, I have been active in ensuring that the public are better informed of the law of contempt and, in particular, the dangers of online commentary. I have done that in a variety of ways including education, delivering speeches, attending symposia on contempt, and review by asking the Law Commission to look at the law of contempt and legislation. New criminal offences of juror misconduct and amendments to the law of contempt are being introduced in the Criminal Justice and Courts Bill. Finally, where necessary, I institute contempt proceedings against contemnors.
Mr Buckland
I thank my right hon. and learned Friend for that answer. I welcome the new offences in the Criminal Justice and Courts Bill. How does he see the interrelation between those new offences and the existing law of contempt working? In other words, how will judges be expected to deal with the often knotty problems that come before them when jurors misbehave?
The Attorney-General
I hope that the benefit of this change to the law will be to emphasise the criminal nature of the conduct of a juror who fails to follow the judge’s directions and acts in a way that undermines the fairness of a trial process. At the same time, by providing that it is an indictable offence that is triable by jury, there will be better safeguards for jurors in terms of fairness if they are prosecuted as a result. I trust that the combination of those two things will enable judges to be more robust in their directions to the jury at the outset when explaining that it has an important function to perform, and that that must be performed within the framework that the judge lays down in his directions. In my experience, jurors are, for the most part, animated entirely by good will towards the public interest, so I feel that if we do that, some of the regrettable problems that we have had may be further reduced.
Mr Speaker
I am sure that the House will agree unanimously that we are all now considerably better informed.
Henry Smith
In recent years, the use of social media such as Twitter and Facebook to express opinion has increased significantly. What advice can my right hon. and learned Friend give those who are taking part in court proceedings to ensure that, in using those methods of communication, they are not in contempt?
The Attorney-General
The change that we have introduced is that we tweet and post online the advisories that we issue. Whereas in the past those were sent confidentially to the media, they are now accessible in a similar, if not identical, form to individuals who may take an interest in the trial process. We hope that individuals will thereby be warned about the dangers of inappropriate comment and that, as a result, fewer proceedings against those who abuse the system will be necessary.
Oral Answers to Questions
Dominic Grieve Excerpts(10 years, 1 month ago)
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Jack Lopresti (Filton and Bradley Stoke) (Con)
3. What assessment he has made of the legal implications for the UK of Russia’s recognition of Crimea as a sovereign state.
The Attorney-General (Mr Dominic Grieve)
The steps taken by President Putin to annex Crimea to Russia, including recognition of Crimea as a sovereign state, are a flagrant breach of international law and Russia’s international obligations. The United Kingdom, in common with the European Union and the majority of the international community, does not recognise the 16 March Crimea referendum or its outcome as legitimate or of any credibility or value. As has been made clear by my right hon. Friends the Prime Minister and the Foreign Secretary at this Dispatch Box, Russian actions threaten the rules-based system of international order, a fundamental principle of which is respect for the territorial integrity of states.
Jason McCartney
My constituents of Ukrainian descent in Huddersfield are following this crisis closely. Does my right hon. and learned Friend agree that this crisis should have been resolved through diplomacy and international law, and that we, and others, must not exacerbate the situation through such unilateral and provocative actions?
The Attorney-General
I agree entirely with my hon. Friend. As he is aware from what the Prime Minister said, there was no basis or justification for Russia’s actions in Crimea, even before it moved on to annexation. Its decisions to do that are, as I said, in flagrant breach of its international legal obligations. The United Kingdom is co-operating with other states, including those of the G7 and the European Union, in making clear that such behaviour is unacceptable, and that there will continue to be consequences for as long as Russia does not de-escalate the crisis.
Jack Lopresti
Does my right hon. and learned Friend agree that it is more important than ever that we depend on the stability and security of the international order?
The Attorney-General
I agree entirely with my hon. Friend. Although at times people call into question the mechanisms of international order under the charter of the United Nations, or in a European Context those of the Council of Europe, they have delivered over time real improvements in the way in which states behave towards each other. That is why the actions of the Russian Government in tearing up the rule book in this way are so sinister and so chilling.
Wayne David (Caerphilly) (Lab)
Is the Attorney-General satisfied that the United Kingdom in particular has fulfilled all its obligations under the Budapest memorandum?
The Attorney-General
I have no reason to think that the United Kingdom has not fulfilled its undertakings under the memorandum. The memorandum provided some important mechanisms and assurances for the Ukrainian Government when Ukraine gave up its nuclear arsenal, and it is clear that those have not been observed by the Russian Government.
Mr Christopher Chope (Christchurch) (Con)
So why does the United Kingdom not move to expel Russia from the Council of Europe? My right hon. and learned Friend has said in the past that if we do not give prisoners the vote we will be expelled from the Council of Europe, so surely on the issue of proportionality it is important that we spell out to Russia that it should leave the Council of Europe, and if not, it should be expelled.
The Attorney-General
As my hon. Friend is aware, and as the Prime Minister made clear at the G7 summit, the United Kingdom Government will, along with its partners, look at a range of sanctions and responses, depending on how the crisis unfolds and whether the Russian Government seek to de-escalate it. The best answer I can give is that nothing is ruled out at all.
Paul Flynn (Newport West) (Lab)
4. What plans he has to reduce the running costs of the Law Officers’ departments.
Stephen Mosley (City of Chester) (Con)
5. What progress has been made on commencing new inquests into the deaths at Hillsborough.
The Attorney-General (Mr Dominic Grieve)
My hon. Friend has a long interest in this matter in his role as vice chair of the all-party group on Hillsborough and because Anne Williams, who sadly died last April and whose son Kevin died at Hillsborough, was one of his constituents. As the hon. Gentleman may know, a number of pre-inquest hearings have taken place since the appointment of Lord Justice Goldring in February 2013. I am able to tell him that the inquests themselves are scheduled to commence next week on 31 March.
Stephen Mosley
Tuesday 15 April marks the 25th anniversary of the Hillsborough disaster. Friends and relatives of those affected have waited far too long to find out what happened. With the inquests starting next week, will my right hon. and learned Friend confirm that the press now have to be extremely careful in how they report the inquests, to avoid any form of accusation of prejudicing inquests?
The Attorney-General
I agree entirely with my hon. Friend. The families have waited a long time, and I am very pleased that the inquest is going to take place. It is right that the coroner issued a warning on 11 February about reporting, and I issued a contempt advisory on 10 March. It is important that the issues that will be raised and considered at the inquests are not prejudged through comment in the media or social media, and that the lawyers representing the families, the coroner and the jury can get on with their work.
Mr Speaker
I am grateful to the Attorney-General. I think right hon. and hon. Members will have taken note of the substance of that reply.
Alison McGovern (Wirral South) (Lab)
I thank the Attorney-General for his comments. As the hon. Member for City of Chester (Stephen Mosley) pointed out, we will soon mark the 25th anniversary of Hillsborough. It is important to remember that we lost 96 individual people, and that thousands more were terribly affected. Will the Attorney-General join me in remembering the people we lost and offer his support to the memorial events taking place over the next month or so?
The Attorney-General
I am very happy to join with the hon. Lady in that respect. Having studied the papers that led me to make the reference to the High Court to seek a fresh inquest, I can understand the scale of the tragedy that took place very well indeed. For those reasons, I hope the commemoration goes well and is of use and help to the families. I join wholeheartedly in the sentiment she has expressed.
Andrew Gwynne (Denton and Reddish) (Lab)
6. What steps the Director of Public Prosecutions is taking to improve the timeliness with which charging decisions are reached in cases of rape.
Rosie Cooper (West Lancashire) (Lab)
7. What recent discussions he has had with the director of the Serious Fraud Office on funding arrangements for that agency.
The Attorney-General (Mr Dominic Grieve)
I meet the director of the Serious Fraud Office regularly to discuss a range of matters, including finance. The SFO has a current core budget to enable it to carry out its work, but the nature of that work means that it will need additional funding from time to time for its very largest and most complex investigations and prosecutions, such as those relating to LIBOR. As with any other department, the principal arrangement is for the SFO to apply for any additional funding that is required during the year through the estimates process, as it has recently done.
Rosie Cooper
As the Attorney-General has just explained, because the SFO is so underfunded, every time a major case comes along it must go cap in hand to the Chancellor for more funds. David Green, the director of the SFO, has described the arrangement as
“a mystery…inside an enigma”,
and has told the Justice Committee that he is
“keen that an appropriate and more certain funding model can be agreed by all those with an interest.”
Will the Attorney-General do as the director has repeatedly asked, and review the funding arrangements?
The Attorney-General
If I may say so, I always keep the funding arrangements under review, and I am always happy to discuss them with my colleagues in the Treasury. The nature of the SFO’s work load is very flexible, and I therefore think it almost inevitable that if it is to do its work effectively, there will be occasions when it will need extra funding, or will require funding in excess of what it needs. This is an interesting balance which we need to look at. That said, I am mindful of the fact that there may be other ways in which the funding can be delivered and I discuss that frequently with the director of the Serious Fraud Office.
Kerry McCarthy (Bristol East) (Lab)
9. What discussions he has had with the Crown Prosecution Service on prosecuting crimes of violence against subcultures as hate crimes.
Oral Answers to Questions
Dominic Grieve Excerpts(10 years, 3 months ago)
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Jake Berry (Rossendale and Darwen) (Con)
2. What recent discussions he has had with the Treasury Solicitor on the development of a shared legal service. [R]
The Attorney-General (Mr Dominic Grieve)
I have regular discussions with the Treasury Solicitor, Sir Paul Jenkins, on matters of mutual interest. Sir Paul is the architect of the shared legal service, which has led to a much improved organisation and streamlining of the Government legal service. I trust that that will continue. Sir Paul has been a Government lawyer for 35 years. He will retire at the end of the month and I would like to take this opportunity to thank him for his major contribution to this issue, for his years of service to the Government legal service and, indeed, for helping the good governance of our country.
Jake Berry
I draw the House’s attention to my declaration in the Register of Members’ Financial Interests. Will my right hon. and learned Friend set out what benefits will be gained from sharing legal services across Government Departments?
The Attorney-General
Sharing legal services brings considerable benefits in greater flexibility and reliance; more efficient deployment of legal resources, including specialist expertise; and more opportunities for savings and improved knowledge sharing. It also provides a more coherent legal service for Government as a whole and good career development opportunities for lawyers, and it improves the legal support to individual Departments.
Robert Neill (Bromley and Chislehurst) (Con)
Does my right hon. and learned Friend agree that one area of expertise that could be improved by shared legal service is that of awareness of and consistent access to expertise in forms of alternative dispute resolution, such as mediation, which should be available to all Government Departments?
The Attorney-General
I agree entirely with my hon. Friend. That is precisely the benefit of bringing the legal advisers from different Departments into one organisation. There is now a single board that groups those people together in the Treasury Solicitor’s Department, and I am confident it can deliver savings, lower charging costs for Departments—we have already seen that—and greater efficiency and expertise in-house.
Mark Menzies (Fylde) (Con)
3. What steps the Government are taking to ensure the repatriation of stolen assets to emerging democracies in the middle east and north Africa.
The Attorney-General (Mr Dominic Grieve)
In September 2012, the Prime Minister established a taskforce to speed up our efforts to return stolen assets to the people of Egypt, Libya and Tunisia. The Metropolitan Police Service is currently investigating a number of specific cases alongside its Egyptian counterparts. At international level, we used our G8 presidency last year to promote that agenda. That included co-hosting an international conference in Marrakesh on asset recovery last October, which I attended.
Mark Menzies
Will my right hon. and learned Friend confirm that this Government have been at the forefront of helping with the issue, particularly with regard to returning stolen assets to Egypt, and that that was key at the Arab Forum on asset recovery?
The Attorney-General
Yes, I can confirm that we have been at the forefront of asset recovery efforts. A number of priority cases have been identified with the Egyptian authorities. UK investigators have opened domestic money laundering investigations into individuals with significant assets in the UK and they are in daily contact with their Egyptian counterparts. I hope that that will improve with some secondments to Egypt shortly.
The Arab Forum on asset recovery allowed us an opportunity to have an overall discussion about the issue. One of the difficulties is a lack of understanding in some countries about the due process of law that has to be gone through in order for recovery to take place. I hope, therefore, that the conference facilitated a greater understanding of that.
Andrew Gwynne (Denton and Reddish) (Lab)
A National Audit Office report on the proceeds of crime shows that, as a result of poor co-ordination and a lack of leadership, out of every £100 generated in the criminal economy, as much as £99.64 is retained by the perpetrator. What is the Attorney-General doing to address those findings so that victims in north African and middle eastern emerging democracies can get their—
Mr Speaker
Order. We are fully seized of the purport of the hon. Gentleman’s inquiry at just about the same time as he has become seized himself.
The Attorney-General
The hon. Gentleman shows some ingenuity in linking his question to that asked by my hon. Friend the Member for Fylde (Mark Menzies). I assure the hon. Gentleman that asset recovery is given a high priority and that a taskforce within Government is looking at how we can improve it overall. There are a number of interesting challenges, which go back long before this Government came into office. For example, there is a mismatch between the amounts ordered to be seized and the actual realisable amounts and, in some cases, the orders made bear very little relation to the assets available. We are looking at all those things and seeking to prioritise how we can identify those assets that can best be recovered. I would be happy to write to the hon. Gentleman about that so that he can be brought up to date on our thinking.
Rehman Chishti (Gillingham and Rainham) (Con)
In relation to repatriation from north Africa and the middle east, the Attorney-General will know that, in 2012, 500 children were abducted from the United Kingdom contrary to UK court orders and taken to countries in such areas. What steps have been taken and what discussions have taken place with those countries about returning the children to the United Kingdom?
The Attorney-General
This matter does not fall within my departmental responsibility, and it would be best for my hon. Friend to raise that with the Ministry of Justice. I accept that there are areas of real difficulty in respect of children who are abducted, but that complex issue above all involves international co-operation and respect for the orders made by family courts in other countries.
Mr Philip Hollobone (Kettering) (Con)
Does the Attorney-General have any estimate of the amount of stolen assets that might be in this country?
The Attorney-General
It is probably foolish to engage in speculation about precise figures, but I will simply say that it is recognised that there are likely to be substantial sums in this country.
David Wright (Telford) (Lab)
6. What recent steps he has taken to promote awareness among prosecutors of the tools available to secure the removal from the UK of low-level foreign offenders.
The Attorney-General (Mr Dominic Grieve)
The Crown Prosecution Service has worked with the Association of Chief Police Officers and the UK Border Force to develop joint guidance for the foreign national offender conditional caution scheme in advance of its introduction in April 2013. Prosecutors are advised that where the criteria are met, there is a strong public interest in issuing a conditional caution to foreign national offenders.
David Wright
I understand that 20 cautions were issued in the six months from April 2013 and that 13 were successful in removing the offender. What happened to the other seven?
The Attorney-General
It is important that the hon. Gentleman understands that any decision to go down that road pre-charge is for the police to make, not for the CPS. The CPS can be consulted and after charge, when it is reviewing cases, it may identify cases that it can recommend should go down that route and have the charges dropped. I cannot tell him what happened to the other seven; I shall try to find out and write to him. It is desirable that the project be taken forward. It is not without difficulty: there are human rights issues, and often people say they are asylum seekers or have claimed asylum and therefore cannot be removed. That said, the fact that even that small number of people have been removed seems to me to be a step in the right direction.
Mr Peter Bone (Wellingborough) (Con)
What happens when those foreigners have been repatriated? Are they allowed automatically to come back to this country at a later date, or are they banned from returning?
The Attorney-General
Generally speaking, they are banned from returning to the United Kingdom, at least for a period of time. It depends on the nature of the offence: in some cases, the offence will be an immigration offence and may lead to a ban for a period of time; a serious criminal offence is likely to lead to a ban for ever.
Chris Bryant (Rhondda) (Lab)
Last week, the Government introduced a new provision in the Immigration Bill allowing the Home Secretary to remove the British citizenship of people from other countries who have been naturalised. In cases where the individual is resident in this country, what will happen to them? Will they be banished from the realm? Will they be exiled, and if so, where to?
The Attorney-General
I think the hon. Gentleman has taken a slightly simplistic view. The measure passed by the House returns us to the status quo ante 2006, which allows for such a power to be exercised by the Home Secretary. Obviously, if that power is to be exercised it has to be exercised bearing in mind, first, whether the person may obtain another nationality, and secondly, whether they can be deported. A number of criteria can be brought into play before a decision is made on such a case.
Mr Stewart Jackson (Peterborough) (Con)
The cost to the taxpayer of every 1,000 prisoners kept on the prison estate is £28 million. What work has my right hon. and learned Friend done and what advice has he given the Home Office and Ministry of Justice to expedite bilateral agreements with countries such as Ireland and Poland to bring about the quick removal of foreign national offenders?
The Attorney-General
I am not allowed to say what I do or do not advise on, but in countries such as Ireland and Poland—signatories to the European convention on human rights and fellow members of the EU—it ought to be possible by bilateral dialogue to speed up the removal of prisoners from the United Kingdom, either to serve the rest of their sentence in their country of origin, or deporting them at the end of their sentence.
Mr Simon Burns (Chelmsford) (Con)
7. What assessment he has made of the effects of increased digital working by the Crown Prosecution Service; and what estimate he has made of the savings to the public purse as a result of that increase.
Clive Efford (Eltham) (Lab)
8. In what ways the Serious Fraud Office co-operates with prosecutors overseas; and if he will make a statement.
The Attorney-General (Mr Dominic Grieve)
The Serious Fraud Office co-operates with prosecutors overseas during joint investigations, SFO investigations with which overseas prosecutors can assist, building capacity internationally, and executing requests for legal assistance when asked to do so by the Home Office.
Clive Efford
Can the Attorney-General say what discussions he has had with America regarding the extradition of people who may be guilty of fixing the LIBOR? Progress is lacking in prosecuting people involved in LIBOR-fixing; does this increase the likelihood of their being extradited?
The Attorney-General
The Serious Fraud Office is in touch frequently with its United States counterparts in respect of investigations that have a transnational dimension. I will not talk about a specific case, but looking at the matter hypothetically, in such circumstances it will be decided in which jurisdiction a prosecution would best be brought. The hon. Gentleman will be aware that a LIBOR investigation is progressing in this country. There are also investigations in the United States. From what I know of the matter, I am satisfied that there will be good co-operation between the two jurisdictions to ensure that any alleged criminality is brought to justice.
James Wharton (Stockton South) (Con)
9. What recent discussions he has had with the Secretary of State for Justice on reform of the law of contempt.
The Attorney-General (Mr Dominic Grieve)
I met the Justice Secretary recently to discuss proposals for reforming the law of contempt. The proposals will implement recommendations that were made by the Law Commission and have been included in the Criminal Justice and Courts Bill. I strongly support the reforms, which include the creation of criminal offences for jury misconduct. If enacted, the legislation will reform the contempt law that is applicable to publication contempt, with the aim of providing greater clarity and certainty for the media and the courts about when material that is published online should be removed when proceedings are active.
James Wharton
What success has my right hon. and learned Friend had in prosecuting jurors who ignore judges’ pre-trial advice, particularly with regard to the unlawful use of social media?
The Attorney-General
Since coming to office, the Solicitor-General, his predecessor, my hon. and learned Friend the Member for Harborough (Sir Edward Garnier), and I have successfully instituted proceedings against five jurors. Four of those cases involved the misuse of the internet, including using the internet to conduct research. In two of those cases, social media were used to commit the contempt. As a result of those proceedings, judicial directions to jurors have been revised and strengthened. The purpose of those prosecutions is to send out a clear message about the unacceptability of such behaviour and, thereby, to ensure that further prosecutions are not necessary. By turning it into a straightforward criminal offence, we will make quite clear the gravity of the matter, while also providing statutory defences.
Oral Answers to Questions
Dominic Grieve Excerpts(10 years, 4 months ago)
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Nick de Bois (Enfield North) (Con)
1. On how many occasions in the last 12 months he has referred a criminal sentence to the Court of Appeal for review because it was felt to be unduly lenient.
The Attorney-General (Mr Dominic Grieve)
From 31 December 2012 to 1 January 2014, the sentences of 67 offenders were referred as unduly lenient and have either been heard or are due to be heard by the Court of Appeal.
Nick de Bois
The will of Parliament was that the use of a knife in an aggravated fashion would carry a mandatory six-month jail sentence, but according to the latest statistics, the courts have imposed such a sentence in only half of all cases. Does the Attorney-General agree that perhaps these should be considered for appeal, and does he back Parliament’s will?
The Attorney-General
My hon. Friend may be aware that such cases are not currently referable. It is for Parliament to decide whether it wishes to extend and make referable those sentences. If Parliament’s will is that they should be, it is my job to consider that. It is worth bearing in mind that the principle enunciated originally was that only a small number of cases in specified and very serious offences would ever be referred. But there needs to be finality in sentencing and, of course, if many more cases are referred, that will place burdens both on the Court of Appeal in considering them and on my office in making the assessment of around 450 cases per annum.
Valerie Vaz
Thank you, Mr Speaker and happy new year. Does the Attorney-General agree that, at the end of the day, it is for the judges who hear the evidence in a case to decide what the sentence should be?
The Attorney-General
The hon. Lady is quite right. We must rely on judges’ judiciousness in deciding what sentences should be. Occasionally there will be examples that are unduly lenient and fall within the specified schedule where I can make a reference. The object of the reference is not only to correct the particular sentence that has been passed but to try to lay down a good precedent for the future. It is noteworthy that we have referred fewer cases overall in the last 12 months than the 12 months before. That may be an indication of the extent to which the Sentencing Council is working to ensure consistency.
Sir Paul Beresford (Mole Valley) (Con)
What proportion of the 67 cases were for child sex abuse or child sex pornography in some form or other? Is the Attorney-General prepared to review the sentencing of those sorts of cases in terms of the sentences that are available?
The Attorney-General
My hon. Friend can be reassured that most of those cases will be referable and, indeed, I have referred such cases to the Court of Appeal. I am afraid that I cannot give him the statistics at the Dispatch Box but I will write to him with the statistics for the last 12 months.
Keith Vaz
As the Attorney-General has said, there are a number of very serious cases that cannot be referred. He says that that is a matter for Parliament. But will he take the initiative and start a consultation, allowing Members to put forward their views as to which offences should be subject to these reviews?
The Attorney-General
As the right hon. Gentleman will be aware, other offences have been added to the specified offences. In August 2012, we added trafficking people for exploitation. In May 2006, various offences under the Sexual Offences Act 2003, to which we have just referred, were added. Of course that is possible but, as I said in my first answer, we need to balance the need for finality and the need not to end up with a system where the Court of Appeal becomes the sentencing court for almost all offences. But if the right hon. Gentleman has examples that he feels need to be considered, I strongly urge him to write either to me or to my right hon. Friend the Lord Chancellor and those can undoubtedly be considered.
Andy McDonald (Middlesbrough) (Lab)
8. What recent assessment he has made of the options available to victims of crime who wish to complain about the performance of public prosecutors.
The Attorney-General (Mr Dominic Grieve)
Since the Crown Prosecution Service launched its new victims’ right to review scheme on 5 June 2013, victims have the right to request a review of a CPS decision not to prosecute in qualifying cases. The CPS feedback and complaints policy has also been revised to reflect the appointment of the independent assessor of complaints for the CPS. The VRR scheme was the subject of a consultation, concluded on 5 September 2013, and the CPS is considering the responses to the consultation with a view as to how best to operate the VRR scheme in the future.
Julie Hilling
There have been 600 requests from victims of crime to review prosecutors’ decisions to drop their case since the victims’ right to review was introduced six months ago. Given that level of demand, will the Government consider looking at widening the right to review to include decisions to caution instead of charge and decisions to alter substantially the original charge?
The Attorney-General
It might be worth while seeing first how the current changes, which are significant, operate in practice. The hon. Lady referred to the figure, which is 662, of which the determination was that the original decision was incorrect in, I think, 18 cases. There have also been cases referred to the independent assessor, where six have been upheld and three partly upheld. I am utterly pragmatic about this; I wish to see victims’ rights at the heart of the criminal justice system, but there are significant changes and we need first to see how well the system is operating and, in particular, how it will operate once the CPS responds in February to its consultation.
Andy McDonald
The Crown Prosecution Service is prosecuting fewer and fewer cases each year, and has been referred fewer cases to charge by the police. This suggests that more cases are being dropped at a stage in the criminal justice system where no right to review exists. Is the Attorney-General concerned by that?
The Attorney-General
The hon. Gentleman may be right, but there may be other explanations, one of which is that the noticeable fall in crime is leading to fewer cases coming to the police in the first place. I am obviously not answerable for the actions of the police who, as the hon. Gentleman will be aware, are in fact independent in the way they operate. They can be subject to judicial review, but certainly not to ministerial command. If the hon. Gentleman or indeed any hon. Member has examples where they think that the police decision-making process is not working properly, I would be most grateful if they brought them to my attention or indeed to that of the Home Secretary.
Philip Davies (Shipley) (Con)
Many people, not just victims of crime, have concerns about the performance of public prosecutors in court. Will the Attorney-General set out what inspections are made of public prosecutors in court and how many unannounced visits are made in order to assess the performance of the CPS prosecutors?
The Attorney-General
The Crown prosecutors who appear in court as advocates are monitored. Indeed, it is a rather more rigorous monitoring process than the one available, for example, for the independent Bar that does their work. I would be happy to write to my hon. Friend with further details of how this monitoring is carried out. The previous Director of Public Prosecutions, Keir Starmer, made a very particular point in the first year that I was working with him in carrying out an extensive review of the performance of Crown prosecutors. This is monitored and it is also the subject of inspections by the Crown Prosecution Service inspectorate. There are published reports on the quality of the advocacy being delivered.
Mr David Burrowes (Enfield, Southgate) (Con)
Now that wasted cost orders are no longer available in legally aided cases awarded against the Crown, how can accountability be enforced against Crown prosecutors who have plainly not only wasted the court’s time, but let down the criminal justice system, which includes victims?
The Attorney-General
First, if there is adverse publicity in respect of prosecutors not doing their jobs properly, that is a matter of very serious concern to me and should and would be a matter of serious concern to the Director of Public Prosecutions. That provides some sanction in itself, quite apart from the fact that I have to answer for the work of the Crown prosecutors once a month in this House.
Meg Hillier (Hackney South and Shoreditch) (Lab/Co-op)
The day after we saw barristers and solicitors withdrawing their labour in the teeth of the cuts to legal aid, what is the Attorney-General doing to try to improve the efficiency of the Crown Prosecution Service? When I was a witness just over a year ago, I saw at first hand the inefficiencies and time wasted—for victims, witnesses and prosecutors—in the system. With these stringent cuts, that should surely be an area in which to look for efficiencies.
The Attorney-General
The hon. Lady will be aware that we are seeking to introduce many efficiencies into the system, including digital working, early guilty plea systems and better warning of witnesses. Some of those are in the hands of the Crown Prosecution Service, but others, as she will appreciate, are not. They lie with my right hon. Friend the Lord Chancellor and the Court Service. There is a great drive for efficiency: efficiency delivers savings and in a time of austerity, there is no doubt that improving the efficiency of the Court Service and of the throughput of the criminal justice system is one of the highest priorities—both for me and, I know, for the Director of Public Prosecutions.
Dr Julian Lewis (New Forest East) (Con)
Can anything be done to rectify a perceived imbalance in criminal cases where the person on trial has direct access to the barrister who is representing him while the victim, as a witness, has no direct access to the prosecutor? Victims sometimes feel that their case is not as fully understood by the prosecutor as it should be. Can anything be done about that?
The Attorney-General
There are limits to what is feasible, although it is also right to say to my hon. Friend that the previous practice, whereby the prosecuting counsel could have no contact whatever with the witness, is now at an end. There is now an opportunity for an introduction and an explanation of how the court process is likely to develop, which I think is a great improvement. That said, there should be no suggestion that a witness is being coached, which my hon. Friend will appreciate could undermine a prosecution case. Those two things have to be balanced. A point that was always made to me when I prosecuted was the absolute necessity of informing witnesses, introducing oneself to them and keeping them informed within the bounds of propriety and the court process about what is actually going on, including talking to witnesses who turn up to find that they are not needed because the defendant has pleaded guilty. It is important to explain that to them.
Julie Elliott (Sunderland Central) (Lab)
4. If he will take steps to ensure that the causes of the recent decline in prosecutions for rape, child abuse and domestic violence are investigated.
Robert Flello (Stoke-on-Trent South) (Lab)
6. What steps he is taking to promote awareness of the laws on contempt of court among users of social media.
The Attorney-General (Mr Dominic Grieve)
The media and those who publish information on social media sites should always be alert to the requirements of the Contempt of Court Act 1981. In December I announced that in future, if appropriate to do so, advisory notices that I issue for specific cases will be published on the Government UK website and my office’s Twitter feed as well as being issued to mainstream media. These advisories will not take the form of general guidance, but there will also continue to be some information on contempt available on our gov.uk website and this has been updated today. Providing advisory notices to the wider public on a case-by-case basis will, I hope, ensure greater awareness of the law of contempt and its applicability to both the mainstream media and users of social media and help prevent people from inadvertently committing a contempt of court.
Robert Flello
I am grateful to the Attorney-General for that response. Do the Government plan to follow the Law Commission’s recent recommendations on contempt of court, which include the introduction of a new statutory offence for jurors who google extraneous information relating to their case?
The Attorney-General
I have read the Law Commission’s report and proposals with great interest, and I am taking them very seriously. They are an extremely important contribution to how we might be able to improve matters.
Oral Answers to Questions
Dominic Grieve Excerpts(10 years, 5 months ago)
Commons ChamberRead Full debate Read Hansard Text Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
Mr Steve Reed (Croydon North) (Lab)
1. What recent discussions he has had with the Secretary of State for Justice on bringing forward proposals to repeal the Human Rights Act 1998.
The Attorney-General (Mr Dominic Grieve)
I have frequent discussions with the Justice Secretary about a range of topics. However, the present Government have no current plans to repeal the Human Rights Act. The Justice Secretary has indicated that in the new year the Conservative party will publish a draft Bill of Rights to replace the Human Rights Act. Such a Bill may not be adopted until there is a majority Conservative Government.
Mr Reed
Is the Attorney-General aware that the Human Rights Act is one of the few ways in which the victims of crime can hold police and prosecutors to account for failure to investigate and prosecute? If so, does he agree that the desire of many of his colleagues to repeal it would represent a serious backwards step for the victims of crime?
The Attorney-General
I certainly endorse what the hon. Gentleman says—that the Human Rights Act is a mechanism through which victims of crime may seek redress. He is right about that, but there is no reason to suppose that if it were to be replaced by a Bill of Rights, that right would necessarily be removed.
Mr David Nuttall (Bury North) (Con)
Does the Attorney-General agree that the British people want the European convention on human rights to be interpreted in the way the original draftsmen intended back in 1950, and not according to what some judges would like it to mean today?
The Attorney-General
I am afraid I have to disagree with my hon. Friend. If he were correct, the criminalisation of homosexuality would remain acceptable, because the convention would not have evolved. I realise he touches on a difficult issue. Some have argued that the interpretation of the convention goes further than it should, and that is a legitimate issue of public debate. As for the principle that the convention should simply be static and remain where it was in 1950, I think careful examination would soon reveal a great many problems that would cause anxiety in this House.
Andrew Gwynne (Denton and Reddish) (Lab)
The Human Rights Act 1998 is also invoked by the victims of human trafficking and slavery to hold to account state agencies that fail to pursue and prosecute their oppressors. Should we not be careful that we do not take a retrograde step, leaving victims of human trafficking and slavery powerless and voiceless as a result of the Attorney-General’s changes?
The Attorney-General
First, I have put no changes to the House today. The hon. Gentleman makes the correct point that the Human Rights Act, as interpreted in our courts, provides a degree of protection. It is possible, however, to replace the Act with a British Bill of Rights that is compliant and compatible with our convention obligations, and which could do exactly the same thing. If I could provide him with some reassurance, the mere replacement of the Human Rights Act by a Bill of Rights would not necessarily lead to the mischief he anticipates.
Lorely Burt (Solihull) (LD)
One hundred and fifty years ago today, President Abraham Lincoln delivered the famous Gettysburg Address. In that short speech, Honest Abe declared a new birth of freedom. In Britain and the rest of the world, no single law does more to protect our freedom than the Human Rights Act. Will my right hon. and learned Friend honour Lincoln’s call by reaffirming our support for the Human Rights Act, which underpins our freedoms today?
The Attorney-General
The key issue for my hon. Friend, and for me, is reaffirming the principles embodied in the convention. The Human Rights Act is a mechanism by which we ensure that convention rights are accessible to those in this country. That has always seemed to be a very good principle on which to operate.
Lilian Greenwood (Nottingham South) (Lab)
2. What recent discussions he has had with the Secretary of State for Education on making reporting of suspected child abuse mandatory for schools.
The Attorney-General (Mr Dominic Grieve)
I have not had any discussions with the Secretary of State for Education on making reporting of suspected child abuse mandatory for schools. The Under-Secretary of State for Education, my hon. Friend the Member for Crewe and Nantwich (Mr Timpson) told the House on 11 November that the relevant statutory guidance is clear: if anyone working with children, including in schools, has concern about a child’s welfare, safety or care, they should report that to the appropriate authority.
Lilian Greenwood
Does the right hon. and learned Gentleman agree with the recent recommendation made by the former Director of Public Prosecutions, Keir Starmer, that teachers and health workers who fail to report reasonable suspicions of child abuse should face criminal prosecutions? Will he produce guidance for schools on what constitutes reasonable suspicion?
The Attorney-General
The former Director of Public Prosecutions has made an important contribution to this debate. I assure the hon. Lady that this matter is being considered by the Government, including by the Home Office. Unless criminalisation of failure to report comes in, guidance is a matter for my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Education. As I indicated in my earlier answer, there are clear guidelines which ought to ensure, even at present, that if there is suspicion or anxiety that a child is being abused, it will be reported to the proper authorities.
Mr Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op)
Does the Attorney-General believe it would be easier or more difficult to tackle child abuse if the age of consent were reduced to 15?
The Attorney-General
The question of whether the age of consent might or might not be reduced to 15 is a matter for the House, but speaking personally, I cannot see any advantage from doing so.
Meg Munn (Sheffield, Heeley) (Lab/Co-op)
As a professional who worked in this area for 20 years, I was always clear that child abuse suspicions should be reported, but I am concerned that there now appears to be a lot of doubt among the wider public and some professionals. Will the Attorney-General work across Government to ensure that the statutory guidance to which he has referred and the need for all professionals in contact with children to report suspicions are made absolutely clear, as it is far from clear that mandatory reporting in legislation would improve child protection?
The Attorney-General
I am grateful to the hon. Lady, who makes some sensible points. I will ensure that what has been said in the House today will go back to the Secretary of State for Education and my right hon. Friend the Home Secretary.
Fiona Bruce (Congleton) (Con)
3. What steps the Director of Public Prosecutions is taking to raise awareness among prosecutors of best practice in prosecuting human trafficking offences; and whether current legislation is being used to prosecute such cases effectively.
The Attorney-General (Mr Dominic Grieve)
I have met Alison Saunders, the Director of Public Prosecutions, on a number of occasions since the announcement of her appointment and on one occasion since her appointment.
Priti Patel
I thank the Attorney-General for his response. He will be aware that victims of crime often feel let down and frustrated by the processes of the Crown Prosecution Service, particularly regarding the absence of information on their cases. Will my right hon. and learned Friend give an assurance that he will oversee the performance of the CPS, so that it can deliver a much better and joined-up service for the victims of crime?
The Attorney-General
The CPS operates under my superintendence and I regularly meet the DPP. The joint police-CPS witness care units keep—or should keep—victims and witnesses updated about their cases as they progress through the criminal justice system. The DPP has indicated that she has three priorities for her work; one of which is care and contact with victims and witnesses. In addition, a pilot is currently being run in South Yorkshire on improving services for victims and witnesses.
Keith Vaz
A very good choice, Mr Speaker.
Last Thursday, two individuals were arrested for carrying out female genital mutilation of a five to six-week-old girl. Since 1985, not a single person has been charged for this terrible crime. Has the Attorney-General had any discussions with the DPP about why that is the case, and if he has not done so, will he do so in future?
The Attorney-General
Yes, I have had discussions with both the previous and the present Director of Public Prosecutions about this issue. It centres on the evidence. I can assure the right hon. Gentleman that if there is evidence on which a prosecution can be brought, it will be brought. The CPS takes the issue very seriously, but as he will be aware, the evidence has to be collected first by the police—and the CPS can help with that at times—and it has to cross the threshold on which a prosecution can be mounted. The difficulty in this area, as the right hon. Gentleman will be aware, is that this is a secret crime, often committed in a way and form that does not bring itself readily to public notice. I can assure him that the CPS takes this issue very seriously.
Rehman Chishti (Gillingham and Rainham) (Con)
Has the Attorney-General held discussions with the DPP about the number of cases that are listed for trial but that do not go ahead because the Crown Prosecution Service has not complied with full disclosure? That is not fair to victims and not fair to the administration of justice or the taxpayer. What steps are being taken to resolve the issue, and how many such cases are there at the moment?
The Attorney-General
Yes, I have raised the matter on a number of occasions with both the previous and the present DPP. It would be best for me to write to my hon. Friend in respect of any statistics; they are not very easy to come by, unfortunately. One issue I often raise when I see some of Her Majesty’s judges on my visits to courts is a request for them to feed in to me any such examples rather than just to rely on anecdote. Nobody pretends that the CPS is a 100% efficient organisation, but I would like to take this opportunity to say that the last director left it in a much better condition than the one he inherited, and made substantial progress.
Emily Thornberry (Islington South and Finsbury) (Lab)
Does the Attorney-General recall that over a year ago, in relation to Hillsborough, I advised him to consider
“discussing with the DPP the value of instructing, at the outset, a senior and independent-minded Queen’s counsel to lead the review of evidence and the decision-making process on any possible prosecutions”?—[Official Report, 16 October 2012; Vol. 551, c. 157.]
He now finds himself unable to discuss Hillsborough with the current DPP, as she previously advised no further action be taken on it. Indeed, the official she nominated is also compromised. With hindsight, does the right hon. and learned Gentleman now regret not taking my advice?
The Attorney-General
In circumstances in which a potential conflict of interests might arise, there are perfectly available mechanisms for my liaison with the Crown Prosecution Service to continue. I have every confidence that this matter is being dealt with appropriately. I am also satisfied that, if there is a need for liaison between my office and the CPS, it can be readily secured with the Crown prosecutor who is dealing with the case.
Sir Alan Beith (Berwick-upon-Tweed) (LD)
Has the Attorney-General discussed with the new Director of Public Prosecutions how she will respond to the chief inspector’s concerns about the quality of Crown court advocacy, and about the need to give Crown court advocates an opportunity to develop their trial skills?
The Attorney-General
Yes, we have discussed that, and we will continue to discuss it. Advocacy lies at the heart of court presentation, and advocacy that is provided in-house within the CPS must be of a high quality. There are fairly rigorous internal review mechanisms, and I think that they have contributed to a raising of standards, but I entirely agree with the right hon. Gentleman that there is more to be done.
Sir Edward Leigh (Gainsborough) (Con)
5. What recent discussions he has had with the Crown Prosecution Service on prosecution of offences under the Abortion Act 1967.
The Attorney-General (Mr Dominic Grieve)
The former Director of Public Prosecutions and I have had various discussions relating to the Act. On 7 October 2013, he published detailed reasons explaining why the CPS had decided not to proceed in the recent cases involving two doctors.
Sir Edward Leigh
Will the Attorney-General confirm that it is the settled will of Parliament that sex-selection abortion is morally wrong and illegal, end of story? How does he explain the fact that, although Operation Monto revealed that such abortions were taking place on a considerable scale, a derisory number of prosecutions have taken place—only seven in four years? Indeed, Keir Starmer, the former head of the CPS, decided not to prosecute when there was clear evidence on the basis of which he could have done so. Will the Attorney-General now take action to ensure that the settled will of Parliament is abided by?
The Attorney-General
As I think my hon. Friend will know, the Abortion Act 1967 does not outlaw abortion on the basis of gender. It provides a mechanism whereby lawful abortion may take place, subject to medical diagnosis and scrutiny. No prosecution was brought because, when the case was examined, it was apparent that there was no
“considered medical guidance setting out, in clear terms, an agreed and proper approach to assessing the risks to the patient’s physical or mental health”,
no guidance on where the threshold of risk lay, and no guidance on the proper process for recording that the assessment had been carried out. It is for those reasons that I have raised the issue with my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Health, and I am delighted that he is reviewing it to ensure that it does not arise in future.
Julie Hilling (Bolton West) (Lab)
Following the outcry that met the decision by the CPS not to prosecute the two doctors for allegedly agreeing to arrange a gender-selective abortion, does the Attorney-General not agree that in future all decisions to prosecute—or not—under the Abortion Act should be signed off personally by the DPP?
The Attorney-General
I certainly take the view that this is a matter of great seriousness, and I would normally expect the DPP to be aware of it. I should point out that the former director of the CPS was aware of the decision not to prosecute in that case, and of course I asked him to review it personally. If he had reached a different conclusion from the prosecutor, he could have done so.
Oral Answers to Questions
Dominic Grieve Excerpts(10 years, 7 months ago)
Commons ChamberRead Full debate Read Hansard Text Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
The Attorney-General (Mr Dominic Grieve)
I regularly meet the Director of Public Prosecutions, and this subject has been discussed. The CPS has reduced its staff numbers by 1,902, or 21%, during the current spending review period, while improving overall performance in its delivery of a public prosecution service. These reductions will save the public purse a forecast £77.8 million per annum by 2015-16. Expenditure on staff exits will substantially reduce in the next financial year as the CPS will have completed its major programme of achieving significant staff reductions.
Mr Slaughter
Given that, by his own admission, the Attorney-General is losing a quarter of all prosecutors, perhaps it is not surprising that he spent £50 million getting rid of them, but why has £10 million of that gone on packages of more than £100,000, including ones of up to £300,000, when the rump of the service is starved of resources?
The Attorney-General
The payments in each case were those to which the individuals were contractually entitled. I am aware of the recent press coverage of two payments, but it relied on a series of assumptions that have been shown not to be accurate. Moreover, in the case of one of those two cases, the payments were in fact made in 2009 and were part of the redundancy payments approved by the previous Government, which we changed.
Gareth Johnson (Dartford) (Con)
6. On how many occasions during the last 12 months his Department has referred a criminal sentence to the Court of Appeal for review on the grounds that it was unduly lenient.
The Attorney-General (Mr Dominic Grieve)
As my hon. Friend will be aware, the power to refer sentences is an exceptional remedy reserved for those cases in which the sentence is so far below the range of sentences it was reasonable to impose that public confidence in the criminal justice system risks being damaged. For 2012, the most recent period for which statistics on unduly lenient sentence cases have been published, we received 435 requests for sentences to be reviewed, of which 82 were referred as unduly lenient and heard by the Court of Appeal. For the period ending 30 September 2013, we have received 352 requests for sentences to be reviewed, of which 57 have been referred to the Court of Appeal and have been, or are due to be, heard by the Court.
Gareth Johnson
In that case, could the Attorney-General please assure the House that he will give due consideration to widening the scope to appeal against unduly lenient sentences? I am sure he will agree that weak sentences by our courts let down the victim, the judiciary and the whole of society.
The Attorney-General
My hon. Friend will be aware that the scheme is currently restricted to a list of serious offences. It is right to say that we have added to that list in recent years. In August 2012, the offence of trafficking people for exploitation was added, as were racially or religiously aggravated assaults in October 2003 and various offences under the Sexual Offences Act 2003 in 2006. It is always possible for cases to be added to the list, but it is important to bear in mind that references take up court time and there must be a limit to the number of cases that the Court of Appeal can hear. One must also bear in mind that there has to be a degree of finality and these things have to be balanced out. If my hon. Friend knows of any cases or types of offences that he thinks might be added, I am always happy to consider such matters. It is, obviously, ultimately a matter for my right hon. Friend the Lord Chancellor, but we discuss these matters and will act if we think it necessary.
Keith Vaz (Leicester East) (Lab)
I am usually a great fan of the Attorney-General, but the way in which he has handled the case of Elena Fanaru is very disappointing. She now lies in a grave in Romania. The man who knocked her down and killed her, having fled the scene of the accident, got only one year and four months in prison. When are we going to make sure that such people really do face justice?
The Attorney-General
I am not going to comment on an individual case. I am quite satisfied that, in so far as I have been able to have any role in this matter, I have acted properly. In so far as it is a matter of where the law needs to be changed, that is for this House to decide.
Philip Davies (Shipley) (Con)
May I urge the Attorney-General to work with the Lord Chancellor to extend the period in which an appeal can be made against an unduly lenient sentence from the current 28 days? Could he also give a word of encouragement to campaigners such as the excellent Families Fighting for Justice who claim it would make a big difference to victims of the most serious offences?
The Attorney-General
My hon. Friend makes an important point. Certainly, the question of the time limit will be looked at by my right hon. Friend the Lord Chancellor. I am certainly open to suggestions, although it is right to say that if we have a new time limit there will always be the risk that it will also be exceeded in some cases. It is important that cases should be reviewed quickly. In some cases the defendant/offender may not have been given a custodial sentence, and to have a long period of delay before a custodial sentence is then imposed is clearly undesirable.
Caroline Nokes (Romsey and Southampton North) (Con)
9. What steps the Director of Public Prosecutions is taking to raise awareness amongst prosecutors of how to deal with cases of human trafficking; and what assessment he has made of whether current legislation is being used to prosecute such cases effectively.