Paris Attacks: Violence Against Muslims

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Tuesday 1st December 2015 Lords Chamber

[The Lord Bishop of St Albans]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what steps they will take to prevent violence against Muslims and other minority groups following the attacks in Paris on 13 November.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Transport and Home Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, the Government take the safety of all our citizens and communities very seriously; indeed, this is at the core of counterextremism strategy. Following the tragic events in Paris, we are working to take all necessary action: police have increased their presence at important locations and events; advice has been given to places of worship; and we are working with organisations such as Tell MAMA to confront anti-Muslim hatred. The Prime Minister has also announced new funding for the security of mosques.

[The Lord Bishop of St Albans]

I thank the Minister for his reply and am grateful for all that Her Majesty’s Government are doing already. Perhaps I may focus on one particular area. Since those terrible events on 13 November in Paris, some of our national newspapers have run some very disturbing stories about the treatment of British Muslims and minority groups, such as asylum seekers, here. Does the Minister agree that, in modern, democratic Britain, there is no place for misleading headlines and scurrilous cartoons designed to demonise minority groups? Many of us on these Benches have been involved in face-to-face meetings during the past three weeks with members of the Muslim community, who are deeply dismayed and angry at what has happened. What are Her Majesty’s Government doing to counter such unhelpful stories and narratives and to strengthen community relations between minorities and the wider British public?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I agree with the right reverend Prelate that, at a time which is very sensitive, to see the headlines that we have seen in certain newspapers is, frankly, appalling. They do not help and they certainly do not add to community cohesion. Notwithstanding the freedoms of press that we enjoy, it is important that we see responsible press reporting. On what steps we have taken, perhaps I may first say how greatly encouraged I have been by the efforts on the part of the communities themselves, particularly the Muslim community, and their reaction to the Paris attacks. Let it be clear that no Government of whatever colour, previously or today, have ever asked any community or faith group to apologise for their faith, and that should be on record. However, what is required is that all communities come together to condemn such atrocities as we have seen in Paris and elsewhere around the world. The Muslim community has been at the forefront at that, not just here in Britain but across the globe—I am sure that many noble Lords will have seen the advert which was taken out by many Muslim community leaders and mosques condemning the actions in Paris and saying quite clearly, “Not in our name”.

[Lord Singh of Wimbledon (CB)]

My Lords, the Minister will be aware of numerous attacks on Sikhs as a result of mistaken identity. While hate crimes against the Muslim community have been monitored by every police force in the country, not a single penny is being spent on monitoring hate crimes against Sikhs. The American Government are well aware of this problem which Sikhs suffer from and are taking steps to monitor that hate crime. When will the British Government catch up?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

Let me assure the noble Lord that the British Government take all hate crime seriously. That is why, in October, the Prime Minister announced a new hate crime initiative, which will be published in January, against all forms of hatred and bigotry. On the recording of anti-Muslim hatred, all religious hate crime and bigotry from anywhere in the country will be recorded officially by all police forces across England and Wales from April next year.

[Lord Paddick (LD)]

My Lords, following the London bombings in 2005 there was a similar increase in Islamophobic hate crime. The then most senior Muslim officer in the UK said that this,

“can lead to these communities completely retreating and not engaging at a time when we want their engagement and support”.

What guidance have the Government given to police forces on engagement with Muslim communities in order to maintain their trust and confidence?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My Lords, the noble Lord referred to the tragic events of 7/7. In Britain today, no community, including the Muslim community, has retreated. We are a thriving democracy—multifaith and multicultural—where we celebrate the diversity of our country as a strength. However, the noble Lord is right to ask what the police are doing. We are working hand in glove with the police to ensure that reassurance is conveyed to all communities, irrespective of whatever faith they may be, that the police, the Government and all of us stand with them against all forms of bigotry.

[Lord Pearson of Rannoch (UKIP)]

My Lords—

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[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

The noble Lord referred to a report, which I have seen, and he is right to say that. No one needs to see division within our communities wherever they may be, including within a university setting. That said, the noble Lord will also recognise that the Muslim community, as I have said, has been at the forefront of condemning not only the actions in Paris but those elsewhere globally. It is a strength of our country that, in the face of such bigotry, venom and vicious attacks against humanity, we come together, irrespective of our backgrounds or faith, to say we stand together against all bigotry, united as a nation. We should commend all groups which have done just that.

Counterterrorism: Communities

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Thursday 26th November 2015 Lords Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Transport and Home Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, I am pleased to respond to this debate on behalf of the Government. I thank my noble friend Lady Mobarik for raising this important issue at a very appropriate time, and congratulate her not only on securing this debate but on her excellent contribution. It reflected the quality of the debate that we have had today, albeit briefly, and I am sure that this is a subject that we will return to.

I am sure that I speak for every Member of this House and beyond when I say that at this juncture our thoughts go out to all those who have been affected by the horrific attacks we have seen recently in Paris, Beirut, Mali and, most recently, Tunisia, and indeed to all those who have suffered from terrorist attacks across the world. We in Britain, across the country, irrespective of who we are, where we came from or what religion we are, stand together in condemning these attacks. We stand as one community, one nation, united with one another.

Following the attacks in Paris, I personally spoke to many members of different communities to reassure them that the Government stand with them, and I know that the police and local authorities have been engaging with communities who may live in fear of right-wing reprisals. Those communities need to be provided with reassurance. I praise all those who have worked very hard to continue to bring communities together and condemn any attempts to divide our society.

Let me be very clear that, as other noble Lords have said, not least my noble friends Lady Mobarik and Lord Sheikh, that the attacks we have seen across the world, and across the Channel, have nothing to do with Islam, a religion that is followed peacefully by millions of people around the world. Those attacks have been rightly and strongly condemned; the heinous acts that we saw in Paris and Africa and that we see in the Middle East have been rightly condemned by all—yes, including Muslims, not just in Britain but beyond. As the Home Secretary and indeed the Prime Minister have made clear, none of us want to see, and none of us will tolerate, any sort of backlash against any part of the community as a result of the attacks. The terrorists may seek to divide us, but they will fail.

Before I go any further, a number of noble Lords have drawn attention to the point that my noble friend asked about: the Government’s counterterrorism strategy, Contest. Our counterterrorism work aims to reduce the risk to the UK and its interests overseas from terrorism, including from the extremist views on which terrorism draws. The Prevent strategy, which has been talked about, was clear that this work must be done in conjunction with the communities. I assure the noble Lord, Lord Harris, that the work that was done previously continues with this Government. To give noble Lords some insight, and to answer the noble Lord, Lord Kennedy, about the level of government support, last year alone the Government and local authorities worked together with just under 40,000 people, reaching those targeted by extremists and terrorist ideologies. Many others throughout the communities work tirelessly without financial support.

However, terrorism is not the only harm caused by extremism. The Government have been clear to make that distinction with the launch of our counter-extremism strategy. To those who wish to see the intent behind the strategy, I give the following quote:

“Whether you are Muslim, Hindu, Jewish, Christian or Sikh, whether you were born here or born abroad, we can all feel part of this country and we must now all come together and stand up for our values with confidence and pride”.

Those are the words of the Prime Minister, spoken in July of this year. The Government continue to emphasise the important work that we are doing with faith and civic communities. We must do everything we can to protect the society we have built together. As my noble friend Lady Eaton rightly pointed out, a project such as Near Neighbours is a shining example of how communities of different faiths can come together to ensure that the society in which they live benefits from the actions of all.

Our country is built on values. The noble Baroness, Lady Hamwee, talked about stating British values. Our strategy and the words of all Ministers reflect the fact that these are shared human values: respect, tolerance and democracy. These unite us and help our society to thrive. But let us accept the basic fact that they are increasingly challenged by extremists who seek to spread hatred and division. That is why the Government launched their counter-extremism strategy in October. It is our intention to protect society and safeguard individuals from the influence of extremists, in partnership—I emphasise this—with communities.

As the Minister responsible for this at the Home Office, let me assure noble Lords that our strategy is based on these fundamental pillars: building a partnership with all those opposed to extremism, both at home and abroad; disrupting the activities of extremists; countering extremist ideology; and building and continuing to strengthen our cohesive communities. It will challenge extremism in all its forms, violent and non-violent—those who seek to hijack Islam and those neo-Nazis who seek to divide societies. Let us be quite clear: tragically, when we see terrorist acts it is the Muslims, not just in this country but overseas, who are too often the victims of extremism and terrorism. We are determined to take direct action to protect British Muslims and everyone in society.

The noble Baroness, Lady Hussein-Ece, condemned the media images that she saw. I join with her in condemning such images. These are the very images which I am sure we all condemn. Indeed, in the light of the events which have taken place in Paris, the Home Secretary has once again emphasised that this should not reflect on our role in helping those who need help. I am proud of the role that Britain plays in helping refugees, not just from the Syrian crisis but from the crises that we have seen before. We have done this historically—it is our legacy—and we continue to do it today, as we will in future.

My noble friends Lord Sheikh and Lady Mobarik also mentioned rising anti-Muslim hatred. I assure noble Lords that the Government, as many will know, recently announced that anti-Muslim hate crime will be recorded as a specific hate crime by the police, across all forces in England and Wales, from April next year. This will help us to focus attention on that important issue, but it is important that that message resonates across all communities. We have to be intolerant of intolerance.

We know that extremists, whoever they are, use a twisted narrative of grievance and conflict to draw people in. Those who hijack Islam supposedly present a view that there is an incompatibility between liberal democracy and their perverse interpretation of Islam. They promote an idea of “the war on Islam”, while the neo-Nazis try to drive a core hatred of minorities. In the counter-extremism strategy, we have stated that we will challenge those perverse ideologies head on, showing them for what they are: baseless and inaccurate.

I am pushed for time because of the notable contributions that we have had. The right reverend Prelate talked about the excellent work being done in Birmingham, which I have seen first-hand. I have seen that at the Joseph Interfaith Foundation. The noble Lord, Lord Stone, always speaks in positive terms, which I think we all welcome, about the experiences of faith groups and how we share those together. To counter extremist ideologies, we must confront and challenge extremist propaganda. I assure noble Lords we are committed to working with individuals and groups across the country which are already speaking out against extremism, and we will support them to increase their impact within the community. Finally, I assure noble Lords that we will consult on all the measures within the proposed counter-extremism strategy. A cornerstone of this is partnership and building cohesive communities.

Once again, I thank my noble friend Lady Mobarik for securing this debate. The Government welcome any opportunity to debate this important subject. To defeat extremists, we must stand together and work in partnership with communities. In doing that, let us also celebrate the country we are: from the Big Iftar to Sadaqa Day, from Mitzvah Day to Sevah Day, from the minarets of mosques to the steeples of churches, to the gurdwaras and mandhirs that we see today in Britain. That is a celebration of what we are as a nation. Against those who seek to divide us, we will unite as one nation. As the Prime Minister himself has said, we will face this challenge head on and we will prevail.

Northern Powerhouse: Airports

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Monday 23rd November 2015 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Randerson]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what is their assessment of the potential impact of additional capacity at either Heathrow or Gatwick airports on the Northern Powerhouse project.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Transport and Home Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, the Government are currently considering all the work of the independent Airports Commission before making any decisions about additional airport capacity. The northern powerhouse initiative aims to harness investment and drive economic growth in the north. Any activity under the Government’s plan for the economy will be complementary in order to provide the best conditions for a successful economy across the United Kingdom.

[Baroness Randerson (LD)]

My Lords, the south-east of England has one-third of the population of the UK and two-thirds of the flights, yet airports such as Birmingham and Manchester have significant spare capacity. Does the Minister accept concerns about the distorting effect of further airport expansion in the south-east? Is he worried that, when the chief executive of Heathrow appeared before a committee in the other place, he failed to provide any detailed strategy for reducing air pollution at Heathrow, which already breaches legal limits?

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My Lords, on the noble Baroness’s second point, as I am sure she is aware, the Airports Commission has detailed quite extensively—whatever proposal is taken forward—the issue of environmental considerations, including noise pollution. On airports in the north of England, as I am sure she is aware, while there have been capacity issues in the south-east, which are being looked at, we have also seen the expansion of services in the north. Manchester International Airport is now the UK’s third busiest airport and will benefit over the next 10 years from another £1 billion of investment.

[Lord Soley (Lab)]

Does the Minister agree that the key to this is to understand that we need a hub airport, wherever it is, and all regional airports need connectivity to that because, if they do not have that, they are at a severe disadvantage particularly to continental airports? We must have regional connectivity with an effective hub airport, wherever that is.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

The noble Lord raises an important point. I agree with him: hub airports provide that connectivity and we are seeing that. I alluded to the growth of Manchester. We have seen Manchester become a hub airport for the region. Connectivity is about not just air connectivity but surface connectivity. As I am sure the noble Lord knows, I am glad to report that in terms of both road and rail we are providing just that connectivity across airports.

[Lord Spicer (Con)]

My Lords, are the Government still fully committed to producing their decision about London’s airports before Christmas?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My noble friend raises a question that he has asked before, and I will give him the answer that I have given before. My right honourable friend the Prime Minister has given an assurance that we will make a decision before Christmas. The other thing that my right honourable friend has underlined is that we need to consider the findings of the Airports Commission’s report extensively. It is an extensive report. We need to look at it in a detailed manner to ensure that there is no subsequent judicial review on any proposal taken forward.

[Baroness Armstrong of Hill Top (Lab)]

Does the Minister recognise that the north has already lost out because of slow decision-making over an airport in the south-east? Teesside’s Durham Tees Valley Airport no longer has any connectivity with London and the connectivity at Newcastle has been severely reduced. This affects our economy. The north-east is still the largest manufacturing region in the country, but much of our work is with Japanese companies. They wonder how on earth they are to get there, when they cannot do so directly when flying into a London airport.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I do not agree with the noble Baroness’s conclusion, although I do agree that there was a lack of investment in the north. The previous Government and now this one have given the commitment to ensure that there is investment, with £13 billion of transport investment going forward in this Parliament. As regards connectivity from north-east to north-west, the noble Baroness is aware that Transport for the North has extensive connectivity plans and I am sure that she welcomes the fact, as I do, that we now have regional airports such as Manchester serving not just the domestic European community—she throws her arms up, but I do not agree with her. The Chinese President himself made a positive announcement, which I think that she should appreciate.

[Baroness Kramer (LD)]

My Lords, the Minister is well aware that any owner of a new runway in the south-east will need to fill it rapidly to repay the cost of having built it and that the fastest route is to persuade the international airlines not to fly directly to Birmingham, Manchester and other regional airports, but to come through Heathrow, with a hub relationship only with those airports. Has he examined what this will do to undermine the northern powerhouse, which is seeking international investment and needs direct international connectivity?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

The northern powerhouse is not being undermined but supported by the Government, as the recent announcement about the link to direct flights to China indicates. As regards the decisions that airlines take, the noble Baroness is aware from her time as a Minister for transport that that is very much up to the airlines themselves.

[Lord Wigley (PC)]

My Lords, the Minister mentioned the importance of rail connectivity for Manchester Airport. Can he confirm that it is still the Government’s intention to ensure that there is a direct rail connection from north Wales and Chester through to Manchester without having to change train? This has long been on the agenda, but it has not yet been delivered.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

The Government have repeatedly given their assurance not just about connectivity, as I said, on rail in the south-east, but also that the investment that we are making across railways throughout the country, including the new investment in HS2, will ensure greater connectivity between all parts of the country. I will look into the specific route that he has mentioned and write to him.

[Lord Rosser (Lab)]

My Lords, the Minister has referred to the decision on the recommendation of the Davies commission report in respect of a third runway at Heathrow being made by Christmas. Can he confirm that that will be a final decision and not simply an interim one?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I think the noble Lord is clutching at straws. I have made clear the Government’s position. A decision will be made on the Airports Commission’s findings, and I ask him to wait until that is made.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, I take it we are talking about this Christmas. Could we have an assurance from my noble friend that the announcement will be made to Parliament and not when Parliament has risen?

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

As I said, I am not going to give an absolute assurance at this point about the timing of the decision. My right honourable friend the Prime Minister has made it clear that a decision will be made. I also speak for the Secretary of State for Transport, who has also indicated that we will come back with that decision to Parliament, and I am sure that an appropriate Question or debate will be tabled right here in this Chamber as well.

Cyclists

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Monday 23rd November 2015 Lords Chamber

[Lord Wills]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what action they are taking to increase compliance by cyclists with traffic laws and regulations.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Transport and Home Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, like all road users, cyclists have a duty to behave in a safe and responsible manner. The enforcement of cycling offences is an operational matter for chief officers of police. Depending on the offence, officers can issue verbal warnings or fixed penalty notices, or report the road user for formal prosecution. The Government support any action taken by the police to deter and reduce the number of cycling offences.

[Lord Wills (Lab)]

I am grateful to the Minister for his reply. When I was in the other place, cycling on pavements—terrorising pedestrians—was the issue that incensed my constituents most in regular open meetings, apart from dog mess. The situation seems to be getting worse. As record numbers of cyclists take to the roads in big cities, we see increasing examples of this sort of behaviour. Just a few weeks ago I was on Marylebone Road and I watched a cyclist jump a red light and weave off down the pavement between pedestrians, talking on his mobile phone as he went. When I said that perhaps he should not be doing that, he got off his bike and asked me to fight him. When I declined the invitation and pointed out that he was breaking the law, he said, “I know I’m breaking the law and you can’t do anything about it”. However, the Minister could. I would be grateful if he could tell the House what more he could do to stop these bully boys on bikes terrorising pedestrians and bring some law and order to our pavements.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My Lords, the noble Lord describes an experience that I am sure we have all shared. When I was on the Back Benches in this House, I served in the City of London. I often said that the biggest challenge for a commuter in London was avoiding not trucks and cars but the cyclists who were possibly jumping red lights or riding on the pavements. I am sure the noble Lord is aware of some of the initiatives that we have taken forward. Road safety is primarily the role of the police. Most recently, Operation Atrium was launched in July 2015, when the London police issued tickets to cyclists breaking the rules. They were then invited to look at the challenges faced not just by pedestrians but by lorries in London as well, which can quite easily miss cyclists. Other initiatives such as THINK! Cyclist and Bikeability will help us to educate cyclists, not just about the law but also about their responsibilities.

[Lord Robathan (Con)]

My Lords, can my noble friend inform the House how many motorists are killed or severely injured by cyclists in a year; how many pedestrians are killed or severely injured by cyclists a year; and how many cyclists are severely injured or killed by motorists and pedestrians in a year?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My noble friend raises a very important point about statistics. I will write to him on the first two issues. I think we acknowledge that the number of cyclists injured on the roads is increasing, but when we compare 2008 to 2014, the number of deaths on the road has not significantly increased. For example, 104 cyclist deaths were reported in 2008 and 113 in 2014, which is an increase of four on 2013 figures. Nevertheless, it is 113 deaths too many and we need to eradicate this problem.

[Lord Taverne (LD)]

My Lords—

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[Lord Taverne]

My Lords, I hope the Minister will provide the figures that he says he will provide and make them available in the Library, although the serious injuries caused by cyclists must pale into insignificance when compared to those caused by motorists. Does he not agree that everything possible must be done by the Government to encourage and support cycling, as was splendidly shown recently with the opening of the cycling superhighway route in London? After all, bicycles are the most efficient machine yet invented for turning energy into motion. Indeed, the bicycle has been accurately described as a kind of green car, which can run on tap water and tea cakes and, moreover, has a built-in gym.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

The noble Lord raises the benefits of cycling, about which I agree with him. I am sure he recognises that the Government have committed more than £100 million between now and 2021 in improving investment in both walking, for example through walking paths, and cycling. I have already alluded to the schemes that the Government are supporting, such as Bikeability.

[Lord Hughes of Woodside]

My Lords, I am not quite sure what figures the Minister has promised to give, but can he say how many cyclists have been issued with fixed penalty notices, how many cyclists have been prosecuted and how many prosecutions have been successful?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

If the noble Lord is asking about all the statistics from England, I will need to follow up in writing as that will be quite a detailed answer. I will write to the noble Lord.

[Lord Trefgarne (Con)]

My Lords, is it not the case that cyclists are not required to carry identification and therefore all they have to do is give a false name to the police officer and tear up the fixed penalty notice?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My noble friend raises the issue of identification and is right to do so. As I said, we need to encourage education for cyclists and responsibility in cyclists. When they ride on pavements or jump red lights, they break the law, and there is a need to review with the police how we can apply the law effectively to cyclists as well as to any other road users.

[Lord Davies of Stamford (Lab)]

My Lords, we have had a continuing string of tragedies involving cyclists being crushed by lorries, often while turning at traffic light intersections. What progress is being made—I think the European Commission was considering a directive at one point—in making it a matter of law that all lorries should be fitted out in such a way that the driver has vision of the full length of his or her cab from the cab itself?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

Again, we have seen investment being made in this. The noble Lord points to a particular type of mirror, which is being encouraged by the Government. Right here in London, we have seen separate areas created for cyclists to ensure their security and safety. As I said, any death on the roads, whoever it is—whether a cyclist, a pedestrian or any other road user—is one death too many. We should seek to ensure safety and security for everyone.

Drones: Risks to Passenger Aircraft

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Thursday 19th November 2015 Lords Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Transport and Home Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, the Government are working with the CAA to develop a comprehensive education campaign on drone safety, and are talking to airports and the manufacturers and retailers of drones about the steps that can be taken to minimise the likelihood of negligent airspace incursions.

[Lord Glentoran (Con)]

My Lords, I thank my noble friend the Minister for that reply. It seems to me to be pretty positive. Having flown around with my own pilot’s licence in the various spaces we have in the country, I see that they are already very overcrowded. Privately owned drones, if not strictly controlled shortly, are almost certain to bring some other disaster into our airspace.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My noble friend raises an important point about safety and that is why the Government have also undertaken to launch a specific public dialogue on the issue of the use of drones, particularly in the leisure area. We will also be consulting next year specifically on proposals for registration, licensing and tracking of drones. My noble friend is right to point out the increased number. If we compare 2014 to current-year statistics, we have seen possible incidents going up from 10 to 64, so with the increasing use of drones, the safety issue is very important.

[Lord Hylton (CB)]

My Lords, is the Minister aware that there have been near misses recently, and are the Government considering total exclusion zones for drones in the take-off and landing flight paths of major airports?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

Again, I can say to the noble Lord that this is an important issue. It is on the Government’s radar—to use an aviation analogy—and, for example, Sussex Police is carrying out a specific pilot around Gatwick Airport, addressing the very points raised by the noble Lord.

[Baroness Randerson (LD)]

My Lords, the Government’s response to the EU Committee’s report on drones referred to ongoing discussions on the wider use of geofencing. The Committee recommended that the Government should look at mandatory geofencing. Have they considered this and what conclusion have they come to?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

The noble Baroness refers to a very positive debate we had in this House. As I have already outlined, the Government will be introducing a public dialogue very shortly on this issue, which will be across the country, including in Scotland and Wales. In addition, there will be a full public consultation in which the point she raises will also feature. We hope to conclude that public consultation by the middle to end of next year.

[Lord Geddes (Con)]

My Lords—

[Lord Rosser (Lab)]

I do not share the view already expressed that the Minister’s response was positive. The Civil Aviation Authority is warning that drones being flown as high as 2,000 feet are putting passenger aircraft in danger. It has now issued safety guidelines known as the drone code to discourage hobbyists from using their equipment in areas where large aircraft are present. Frankly that seems a pretty tepid response if it reflects the Government’s approach. First, the potential dangers of drones to passenger aircraft have been known for a few years and, secondly, six incidents involving drones at or close to airports were reported between May 2014 and March this year. Do we have to wait for a major incident to occur before meaningful action is taken? How can the potential risk to passenger aircraft be said to have been addressed when there appears to be so little effective control over who can acquire and fly a drone, and where?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I look forward to the day when the noble Lord says I have made a positive remark from this Dispatch Box. That remains a personal ambition. I am sure that that is not the case, I say to the Opposition Chief Whip. The noble Lord is fully aware, I am sure, that the Air Navigation Order 2009 lays out specific measures for operators, covering issues of safety and security. Equally, as I have already said, it is right that we look at this evolving area, particularly over the fact that drones available for leisure activity are more widespread. The noble Lord talked about the negative response. The CAA has launched a particular campaign for small operators, which is entitled You Have Control: Be Safe, Be Legal, which the Government support. I have already alluded to the public dialogue and the consultation that I am sure will yield positive results.

[Lord Lawson of Blaby (Con)]

My Lords—

[Lord Geddes]

My Lords, I will try again, since I have been on my feet once. Could my noble friend advise when a model aeroplane becomes a drone?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

We would have various technical responses to that. If a model aeroplane is operated by a particular individual and controlled through a remote control device, it falls within the definition of a drone. As I said earlier, it is important, with the evolving nature of this industry—in particular the availability of small drone aircraft from your high street—that the Government consult widely on this.

[Lord Lawson of Blaby]

My Lords, given the need to reduce the deficit, which has already been referred to this morning, would my noble friend care to suggest to the Chancellor that there might be a useful new tax base here?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I am sure that my noble friend speaks from great experience and my right honourable friend will have taken note of his helpful suggestion.

[Lord Berkeley (Lab)]

My Lords, is this not a worldwide—or at least a European—problem, because the Americans can pinpoint bombing in Syria by controlling a drone from somewhere in the States? Who are the CAA and the Government talking to outside the UK? Surely it is much more than a UK problem.

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[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

This should not be looked upon just as a problem. There are benefits to be had from the expansion of drones; for example, in agriculture and in parcel delivery. Also, with the tragic, sad events we saw over the weekend, there is an increasing need to look at drone technology when it comes to surveillance. In that regard we are looking at this not just nationally; as the noble Baroness, Lady Randerson, said, it is also being looked at across the EU and with our international partners.

[Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)]

Is my noble friend aware that you can buy these gadgets in the basement department of Selfridges? No doubt plenty will be given for Christmas. Surely the lesson from this is that we had better get on with proper controls PDQ.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My noble friend makes a very valid point. As I said, the leisure element of this particular expansion of drones is readily available. I am sure that many people will be getting Christmas presents from not just Selfridges but other stores that now host this—just to ensure that there is a level playing field here from the Government. The serious point is that this is an evolving area. We need to ensure that we consult widely and put the right measures in place.

Airport Security

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Tuesday 10th November 2015 Lords Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Transport and Home Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, Her Majesty’s Government’s first priority is the safety and security of British citizens. We keep aviation security arrangements under close review and we will act where we need to, as we have done in the case of flights from Sharm el-Sheikh. Of course, the noble Lord will appreciate that we do not comment in detail on security arrangements.

[Lord West of Spithead (Lab)]

I declare my interests in security, as recorded in the register. I thank the Minister for his Answer, but in 2009 we were very concerned about security at foreign airports, and I put in hand work with the OSCT and the Department for Transport to identify all the airports at risk and what we could do to sort things out. We may be getting safer here, but there is no point to that if people are killed on their way back into the country. Can the Minister tell us whether we have that list? Have we put in hand the work to correct the problems in those airports? Are the Government fully involved with the 30 foreign groups that are coming to the transport security exhibition at the beginning of December so that they can be part of it, including, for example, the Egyptians who are coming en masse?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I assure the noble Lord—indeed, the whole House—that we continue to identify and work with airports across the world in not just minimising but ensuring that we seek to eradicate any security and safety risks for all passengers. Our first priority, however, is UK citizens, and we continue to work extensively in that regard; we did so even prior to this incident. On the noble Lord’s second point, of course we work with many Governments across the board, and in this case with the Egyptians. The Prime Minister, in his meeting with President Sisi last week, again indicated that Britain will offer full co-operation in whatever respect it can.

[Lord Spicer (Con)]

My Lords, Athens used to be the worst major airport in Europe from the point of view of security—at least, it was when I was Minister for Aviation. Is it still?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

Again, as I am sure my noble friend will appreciate, I shall not go into specific names of airports. The appropriate response is that we are looking at security risks across the board, and it would be right and responsible to do so, to ensure, as I said, that we seek to eradicate any risk to safety. In the action that we took on Sharm el-Sheikh, the British Government’s view is clear. If we perceive that there is a risk to the safety and security of UK citizens, we will act—and we have done so.

[Lord Hylton (CB)]

Does the noble Lord agree that better intelligence on and better control over airport workers are far more important than ever tighter checks on British travellers?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I agree with the noble Lord, but I add that it is appropriate that we look at increasing security when necessary on all passengers. Underlying the points that he has raised, there is also the importance ensuring that those who carry out the screening of passengers and baggage are fully and effectively trained.

[Baroness Randerson (LD)]

My Lords, can the Minister explain or give us information on the specific situation at Sharm el-Sheikh Airport? Much anecdotal evidence is now emerging of long-standing security concerns there. Can the Minister explain whether the British Government have been involved at this airport previously, or whether their involvement is occurring only now?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I think I have already answered the question. The British Government have been, continue to be and will in future be engaged with countries and airports across the world to ensure that we address safety concerns. The noble Baroness asked about the situation on the ground in Sharm el-Sheikh, but I am sure she has also been following the fact that the British Government, working together with airlines—I commend their actions in this respect—has already resulted in more than 7,700 UK citizens returning to the UK over the last few days. We continue to work with the Egyptian authorities on the ground and with the airlines, so that all other remaining passengers who wish to return are returned to the UK as soon as possible.

[Lord Rosser (Lab)]

The Government said last Thursday in this House:

“We have continuing arrangements with authorities across the world to review aviation security arrangements in airports regularly to ensure that they are meeting required standards”.—[Official Report, 5/11/2015; col. 1805.]

In the light of the last question, when was the last review of the airport at Sharm el-Sheikh, and did it reveal that the security arrangements met the required standards? If it did so, what confidence can we have in these reviews, in the light of the recent apparent outrage and the Government’s no doubt justified decision to suspend UK-operated flights to and from Sharm el-Sheikh? Finally, will future reviews of airports across the world simply look at trying to ensure that existing security arrangements work properly, or will they look at introducing new features to enhance security?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

Again, I shall not go into specific details of security arrangements, but the Government, as I am sure that the noble Lord is aware— and as the whole House is aware—continue to work on the ground with the respective sovereign authorities and airlines to ensure that we not only minimise but eradicate the risk and ensure the safety and security of all passengers. We will continue to do so.

[Baroness Rawlings (Con)]

My Lords, I wonder whether Her Majesty’s Government’s plans are progressing regarding possible voluntary profiling for passengers at airports.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I think my noble friend is alluding to the issue of passenger profiling. Some operators—indeed, the American airlines—engage in passenger profiling. That is certainly something that has been reviewed and I am sure, in light of the recent incident, we are looking at all measures to ensure that we have the most effective procedures on the ground, wherever we are in the world, to ensure the safety and security of all passengers.

Islam

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Thursday 5th November 2015 Lords Chamber

[Lord Pearson of Rannoch]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether, as part of their counter-extremism strategy, they will encourage a national debate about the nature of Islam, including whether the Muslim tenet of abrogation remains valid today.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Transport and Home Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, the Government’s approach and strategy to countering extremism is firmly based on further strengthening our relationships and work with the communities and organisations across the United Kingdom and together confronting, challenging and disrupting extremism in all its ugly guises.

[Lord Pearson of Rannoch (UKIP)]

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord for that fairly helpful reply. Some noble Lords may not be aware that abrogation means that, where there is contradiction in the Koran, its later and more violent verses outweigh its admirably peaceful early texts. Is the noble Lord aware that, together with some Koranic scholars, I have written a short summary of Islam, which I will send him, and that we are asking the Guardian newspaper to hold an open debate as to its accuracy? Secondly, given the seriousness of our domestic situation, could not the Government themselves sponsor a council of our Muslim leaders in which they could clarify the modern meaning of their religion and cast the extremists out of Islam?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My Lords, I look forward to receiving the noble Lord’s summary of the great religion of Islam. Perhaps during his reflection he will also have noted that, with the exception of one verse in the holy Koran, every verse starts with the words: “In the name of God, the gracious, most merciful”, which underlines the true sentiments and principle of that religion. The Government have very much been engaging in debate across Muslim communities. Indeed, the Prime Minister recently launched an engagement forum where he is meeting with people of all denominations from across the Muslim community and beyond to ensure that we confront extremism, as I said earlier, in all its ugly guises.

[Lord Lamont of Lerwick (Con)]

My Lords, does the Minister agree that while it is appropriate for the Government to sponsor good community relations and to promote British values in citizenship courses and in schools, and while it is right that civil society should debate the merits, perhaps, of each religion, surely it would be totally inappropriate for the state to be involved, as the noble Lord, Lord Pearson, has suggested, in a critique of one of the world’s great religions, which is followed by 1.2 billion people throughout the world?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

Suffice it to say that I totally agree with my noble friend.

[Baroness Hussein-Ece (LD)]

My Lords, does the noble Lord think it is helpful or constructive that any religious text—be it from the Koran, the Old Testament or even the Hebrew scriptures; taken and quoted selectively—should be used in a negative, divisive and political way to put whole communities on trial?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I totally agree with the noble Baroness. No community should be on trial in our great country. There are extremists of every guise who take noble faiths and seek to hijack them. That is the challenge that we face within Islam today, but I am pleased to say that it is the Muslim communities of Britain and beyond who are at the forefront of challenging that.

[Lord Ahmed (Non-Afl)]

My Lords, what are the Government’s views of the following comments: “Most Nigerians are generally bad people”; “Jewish bankers financed Hitler”; “Islam is a cancer”? What should be our response to a political party that holds such views?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

The views that the noble Lord has just articulated, which he is reporting to the House, are abhorrent, and I think I speak for the whole House.

[Baroness Mobarik (Con)]

My Lords, first, I was not aware that the noble Lord, Lord Pearson, was a scholar of Islamic theology. I do not profess to have any such expertise, but I am concerned that such a debate as he advocates could be divisive and further exacerbate the current rise in Islamophobia. I, like the vast majority of the 1.6 billion Muslims around the world, was taught that peace, compassion and obeying the law of the land are fundamental. To me, that is the nature of Islam. Does my noble friend the Minister agree that such a debate would be unhelpful for interfaith relations and social cohesion?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I agree with my noble friend. This Government, and indeed the previous coalition Government, have built on the previous opposition Governments’ work in bringing communities together. It is about fighting hate in every guise in which it is found. I am therefore delighted that in October the Prime Minister himself announced—I am sure many noble Lords followed it—that, from April 2016, along with anti-Semitism, anti-Muslim crime will be recorded as a specific hate crime by all 43 police forces across England and Wales.

[The Lord Bishop of Sheffield]

My Lords, I strongly agree with the question raised by the previous speaker and the Minister’s reply. Does the Minister agree that encouraging education and dialogue across a broad front should be a key part of our strategy, including: encouraging relationships not only between the faith communities but between all the faith communities and civil society; encouraging agencies such as the Islamic Society of Britain—which does such powerful good work in education in schools and other areas; raising the levels of religious literacy at all levels; further analysis of why people of faith do, in a minority of cases, resort to violence; and building on the excellent work of the noble Lord, Lord Sacks, in his recent book Not in God’s Name?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

The right reverend Prelate raises a very important issue about education. I think that education is the cornerstone of all progressive societies. The Near Neighbours scheme, for example, run by the Church of England, is a great scheme which brings communities together, irrespective of faith and denomination, to ensure that good and sensible values—the prevailing values; we often talk about British values but ultimately they are the human values we all share—prevail in a modern, progressive Britain.

[Lord Rosser (Lab)]

The Minister made reference to a comment by the Prime Minister. Does the Minister accept that the Prime Minister made a comment about sections of the Muslim community quietly condoning extremism, and that that risks causing division and fuelling resentment which will be counterproductive to the Government’s recently published counter-extremism strategy, which quite rightly focuses on building cohesive communities?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I am sure the noble Lord has read the strategy; its foreword is by the Prime Minister. The Prime Minister is the one leading on this strategy of countering extremism. It is about bringing together people of all communities, of all faiths and none, to ensure that we can tackle extremism in all its ugly guises—whether it is those who seek to hijack a noble religion, as we currently find in the religion of Islam, or those who use race and religion to divide society. We must unite against all such extremism.

Aviation Security

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Thursday 5th November 2015 Lords Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Transport and Home Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, with the leave of the House, I shall now repeat a Statement made in the other place by my right honourable friend the Secretary of State for Transport.

“With permission, Mr Speaker, I wish to make a statement on the recent decisions taken by the Government following the loss of the Russian Metrojet flight on Saturday. I know the House will join with me in expressing our condolences to the families of those who lost their lives: 224 lives were lost. I was able to express our deepest sympathy to the Russian Ambassador yesterday, when the Foreign Secretary and I signed the book of condolence.

We still cannot be certain what caused the loss of the aircraft, but we are reaching the view that a bomb on board is a significant possibility. If this turns out to be the case, it clearly has serious implications for the security of UK nationals flying from Sharm el-Sheikh. We have therefore taken the decision that it was necessary to act. The decisions we have made are based on a review of all the information available to us. Some of it is sensitive. I am not able to go into detail on that information, but the House can be assured that we have taken this decision on the basis of the safety of British citizens.

There are two stages to this process. We are working with the airlines to put in place a short-term measure. This could, for example, include different arrangements for handling luggage. Beyond that, we are working with the Egyptians and airlines to put in place long-term sustainable measures to ensure our flights remain safe. We very much hope that it will be possible to declare that it is safe to fly to the resort and to resume normal flight operations in due course. That is why my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary announced yesterday evening that the Government are now advising against all but essential travel by air to or from this airport.

All UK-operated flights to and from the airport have now been suspended. We are working with the Egyptians to assess, and where necessary to improve, security at the airport. More than 900,000 British nationals visit Egypt every year. Most visits are trouble-free. As my right honourable friend said yesterday, we are grateful for the continuing efforts of the Egyptian authorities to work together with us on these vitally important tasks.

The Government are now working with the airline community to put in place interim arrangements for getting people home. This is clearly a very difficult situation for travellers and their families. I would like to thank the airlines for their support during this difficult time, and holidaymakers for their patience. In parallel, specialist teams will be working intensively with the Egyptian authorities to allow normal scheduled operations to recommence.

The decision to suspend flights is a very serious one and has not been taken lightly, but the safety and security of the travelling public is, of course, the Government’s highest priority. We will need to be confident that the security standards meet our expectations and those of the public before we allow services to resume. I recognise that this is a stressful time for British tourists, but we have not changed the travel threat level for the resort itself. People should keep in touch with their tour operators. We also have consular staff on the ground providing assistance. We have aviation security experts on the ground, and will have arrangements to bring people home safely in due course. The airlines are working with us to bring passengers home. No UK-bound aircraft will take off until it is safe to do so. We do not expect flights to leave today, but we hope to have flights leaving tomorrow”.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Rosser, and the noble Baroness, Lady Randerson, for their general support of the actions that the Government have taken. I am sure that they would agree—indeed, all noble Lords would—that the first and primary duty of any Government is the security of their own citizens. Suffice it to say that the decision in the Statement, as I said, was not one that the Government took lightly. It was made after due consideration and it was felt to be entirely appropriate and in line with that very principle of protecting our own citizens.

To take up some of the questions raised first by the noble Lord, Lord Rosser, starting with the general question of personnel and people on the ground, yes, consular staff are already on the ground. Indeed, in addition we have sent staff from Her Majesty’s Government, including aviation experts from my department, the Department for Transport, and officials from the Foreign and Commonwealth Office, who are assisting our citizens on the ground directly.

The noble Lord also asked about long-term measures. As I said, these are being reviewed. Of course, I cannot comment on some of these details because they are specifically security-led. When it comes to aviation security, we have an ongoing arrangement with airports across the world. This has just been done. It is a continuing requirement and we continue to conduct regular visits to various parts of the world to review security arrangements on the ground, in conjunction with the sovereign authorities in those countries.

On the issue raised by the noble Lord, Lord Rosser, and the noble Baroness, Lady Randerson, about the threat to the resort, I want to be very clear that the advice we have been given—as I said, we are working with the airlines on this, as well as the Egyptian authorities—relates specifically to flights into and out of Sharm el-Sheikh airport. The resort itself is not considered to have increased risks. I stress this point since the question was raised.

The noble Lord, Lord Rosser, also asked about flights due to leave tomorrow. He is correct in assuming that these are flights departing from, rather than arriving in, Sharm el-Sheikh. To be clear, we have decided—as any responsible Government would—that until we are satisfied that the risk has been addressed and the additional measures put in place, it is appropriate for flights into the resort to remain suspended.

The noble Baroness asked about security arrangements across the world. I have addressed that in part. We have continuing arrangements with authorities across the world to review aviation security arrangements in airports regularly to ensure that they are meeting required standards. The noble Baroness also raised the issue of the level of certainty. Currently, we can neither confirm nor rule out that this was a terrorist incident. The actions that we have taken suggest that we take seriously the possibility of the flight’s having been impacted by a bomb.

With regard to other questions raised about the general response, these decisions are being taken seriously. To update the House, two COBRA meetings have taken place, one yesterday and one earlier today. These were chaired by the Prime Minister. In addition, as noble Lords will be aware, the Prime Minister has also met with President Sisi at Downing Street. These matters, which are of concern not just to us in Britain but to the Egyptian Government, have been discussed and appropriate issues raised.

[Baroness Falkner of Margravine (LD)]

My Lords, the Minister mentioned the discussion that the Prime Minister is having with President Sisi today. Is Her Majesty’s Government’s position as a candid friend to Egypt that to deal with terrorism does not mean that it is appropriate to lock up the thousands of democracy activists, secularists, bloggers and all manner of people who simply want to express their right to free speech and to have an opinion? Will the Prime Minister’s discussions take into account that you do not fight terrorism by locking up people who just ask for democracy and human rights?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

As I am sure the noble Baroness is aware, we have broad discussions with the Egyptian authorities and others over the concerns that she is raising in relation to human rights. These continue. My noble friend Lady Anelay is specifically responsible for human rights within the Government. We continue to raise these issues. The meeting took place at 12.45 this afternoon and matters of mutual interest were raised. We defend human rights, raising concerns there as they are put to us, not just in our discussions with Egypt but with other friends and allies across the world. It is right to raise these issues.

[Baroness Symons of Vernham Dean (Lab)]

My Lords, I return to the position of the British citizens currently stranded in Sharm el-Sheikh. Various assessments of the numbers involved have ranged up to 20,000, although some of the travel agencies have said that the number is nearer to 12,000. Will the Minister update us?

On the question of consular support, have consular officials been brought in from neighbouring jurisdictions? Consular work is sensitive, difficult and requires training. It should have been possible to have brought in some of our consular officials from neighbouring countries. Have consular officials been able to leave the United Kingdom to give support to their colleagues in Egypt, because presumably there will be consular officials going out of our embassy in Cairo?

Are British-based airlines being approached to go to Sharm el-Sheikh to bring out our citizens? I think that the Statement said that the first are expected to be able to leave tomorrow. One cannot help wondering what is happening to people who may be at the end of a holiday period and who have not got funding available to pay for extra flights, let alone for extra nights in Sharm el-Sheikh, for food or for sustaining young families. I hope that the Minister will address that.

As regards forensics, this was a Russian aircraft over Egyptian territory. We are good at forensics, being acknowledged as being among the foremost countries. Have we been asked or have we offered to provide forensic support on the ground? That does not impinge on intelligence. Have we been asked for or have we offered support to go to Sharm el-Sheikh to look at what happened to this aircraft? There are all sorts of rumours about the condition of the plane and the condition of the dead, for whom we all have sympathy as we do for their families. Are we playing our part as regards forensics?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

The noble Baroness is right to return to this key concern that we all share for the British citizens on the ground. She is quite right that the numbers have varied. That is partly due to the fact that some numbers and details come from the tour operators and other people have gone there of their own accord, perhaps visiting or passing through the country. The figure that the media are primarily using is 20,000. That is the figure at which we are looking at the highest level. Some may well be there serving and working throughout Egypt. It is not possible to give an exact number now. Nevertheless, we are fully aware of the assessments and working very closely with the carriers.

She asked about the airlines. This morning, we have had the airlines working with us at the Department for Transport. They are working together and with the Government. I acknowledge, as did the Secretary of State, the incredible support and co-operation that they are giving to the Government and to the authorities and in particular to the people on the ground.

She rightly raised the issue of those who, financially, could not afford to make arrangements. Again, through the airlines we are working to ensure that anyone whose flights are delayed, or who are delayed in the resort, are also catered for without extra financial hardship. She is also aware from her own experience that there is a specific fund that has been created to deal with these issues, the hardship fund. We believe that the combination of factors, working together with the airline operators and the Egyptian authorities, will enable us to address the primary concerns and to facilitate the safe departure of all those who wish to leave the resort as soon as possible.

She raised the valid point about this being a Russian plane. I can assure the noble Baroness that this afternoon, following the visit by my right honourable friend the Secretary of State for Transport and Foreign Office representatives to the Russian ambassador, the Prime Minister will be speaking to Mr Putin directly. Without pre-empting what the Prime Minister or President may discuss, I am sure that during the course of those discussions we shall, as we do when such tragedies happen around the world, seek to extend whatever assistance we can from the British Government.

[Lord Campbell-Savours (Lab)]

My Lords, the noble Lord did not address the issue of forensics that was raised by my noble friend directly. The subtext to his Statement is that the evidence of a device on board is not forensic; otherwise, the Government would probably have placed the information in the public domain. Therefore, we must presume that it was intelligence based. We know that the evidence of intelligence information is not going to be placed in the public domain, but in so far as the Egyptian economy is going to be quite badly damaged as a result of this and we know that there have been protests from Ministers in the Egyptian Government, surely we owe it to them at least to give the Egyptian Government some information, not as to the source but as to what intelligence information we may have gained that has led us to take the decision that we have taken?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I assure the noble Lord that the situation with regard to forensics is ongoing and evolving as more details emerge, which we will provide when that is possible. We have made a Statement to the House today. I have also shared with noble Lords the fact that two COBRA meetings have occurred. As the noble Lord is aware, it is not just the President meeting our Prime Minister today; other officials are also attending. Those meetings will be used to share information and our concerns. We will use this opportunity to discuss this matter with them. Notwithstanding some of the media reports, the reciprocal arrangements that we had in place with Egypt before this tragedy occurred have worked well. We have a good relationship with the Egyptian Government. The respective authorities have been extremely co-operative throughout yesterday and during the last day or so. The common cause and concern we all share is to identify and, more importantly, address the exact reason why this tragedy occurred. The noble Lord is also right to point out that this is based on the intelligence that the Government have received thus far. However, I cannot go into more detail on that. I reiterate that after the COBRA meeting today the Prime Minister said specifically that our hearts and sympathy go out to the Egyptian people. However, as I repeated at the start of the Statement, our primary concern—I am sure the noble Lord shares that—must rightly be for UK citizens. That is what we are putting first.

[Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)]

This is clearly a tragedy for the Russians and, as the noble Lord, Lord Campbell-Savours, reminded us, obviously does enormous damage to the already battered Egyptian economy. The noble Baroness, Lady Symons, also reminded us of the appalling disruption, particularly for families, when suddenly they find that their planned charter or schedule return will not happen for 24 hours. The pith of the Statement seems to be that it will be safe to fly out of Sharm el-Sheikh tomorrow but it is not safe to do so today. That is the message that will have to be given to a lot of tourists in Sharm el-Sheikh. The Minister cannot tell us everything but can he explain, so that one can explain to the tourists themselves, what will change between today, when everything has been cancelled, and tomorrow, when we will have to put on all sorts of charter flights and special flights, make special arrangements, reschedule leave and reorganise schedules to make it safe for people to start flying again?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

As my noble friend will know from his own experience, these matters are very fluid. As I said, we are hoping to resume flights at the earliest possible time, as the Statement indicated. We want to ensure that we can facilitate the safe departure of those who want to leave as soon as possible. We are making sure that various factors are in place to ensure that we can facilitate that. The volume of people who wish to leave Sharm el-Sheikh requires certain logistics to be in place on the ground. As I indicated in responding to the noble Baroness, Lady Symons, we are working very closely with the airlines to ensure that the correct number of aircraft are available to facilitate the departure of this sizeable number of people. However, ultimately, we will be driven in all of this by the need to ensure that we are satisfied with the security arrangements for their safe passage and departure from Sharm el-Sheikh.

[The Duke of Somerset (CB)]

My Lords, a noble Lord asked about routeing. Some airlines have announced that they will change their routeing and some have refused to comment on their routeing. Is it possible to devise a mechanism whereby passengers can be reassured that their flights in the future will avoid some of the world’s trouble spots such as Syria and Iraq—and now we have to add Egypt?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

Airlines share information with their passengers as they consider appropriate. All that it is appropriate for me to say at this point is that the Government receive intelligence reports from across the world. We share certain reports with airlines and we share certain levels of advice. Based on that, and in the light of events, some of which the noble Duke has articulated, airlines make certain adjustments. We could go into the mechanics of the extent to which threats can be realised in some parts of the world and the height at which planes should be flying. All these things are of a very technical nature. However, the authorities, Governments and airlines correspond with each other on a regular basis with regard to security measures to ensure that passengers of whatever nationality, wherever they are in the world, can be protected across the world.

[Lord Judd (Lab)]

My Lords, while essentially the House will be fully behind the Government’s rapid response to this situation, does the Minister agree that we should be concerned about not simply the British people who are affected but all those involved, and that we should express—as, indeed, he has—the strongest possible solidarity and support for the victims and those who have been bereaved by this incident? Is this not another cruel illustration of the nihilistic, brutal techniques employed by those who take such action and a total denial of any concept of human rights for the victims? In that context, is it not more important than ever that in all we do to try to reach international arrangements to prevent such situations, we always demonstrate that we will be second to none in our own upholding of human rights?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

The British Government have a very distinguished record in upholding human rights. I totally agree with the noble Lord that we should empathise with all involved in this situation. This is a real challenge primarily for the Egyptian nation itself. Certain actions have been taken. As I said, we are still awaiting further details to substantiate the exact causes of this tragedy. Nevertheless, it is important that, as a responsible UK Government, our first concern must be to ensure the safety and security of UK citizens and residents. At the same time, as I indicated to the noble Baroness, Lady Symons, it has always been the case, and should continue to be so today and for future Governments, that we extend whatever assistance and co-operation we can to others when such tragedies occur. We have done so before and we are doing so now.

[Baroness O'Cathain (Con)]

My Lords, is this not a wake-up call because we have all got so used to being body searched and searched for liquids and goodness knows what else, and now somebody has got through and almost certainly put a bomb on an airplane? Instead of asking whether we should know about routeings or anything else, I hope my noble friend agrees that we should all take it on ourselves to stop moaning about what happens at airports and just be eternally vigilant. Is it true that a United States official spoke to an internet company such as AP that reported this, saying that the US had obtained evidence about a terrorist threat and a bomb on that plane through having listened to conversations? That is what the BBC is reporting today.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

As regards my noble friend’s final point, it would be inappropriate for me to comment on media speculation. Generally speaking, intelligence agencies, and the sharing of intelligence with our allies to avert any such tragedy, is an important part of how international co-operation works. I agree absolutely with her earlier point about a wake-up call. This is very close to home for me as I am the Minister responsible for aviation security at the Department for Transport. I assure noble Lords that we have regular reviews in place. I look regularly at the issues and challenges we face on this front. In doing so, officials and Ministers engage with, but also visit, different locations to review security arrangements. The challenge we face—it is out there, we have all said it before and I am sure we all relate to it—is that a determined terrorist will go to any length to achieve their aim and their aim, ultimately, is to cause disruption and destruction to innocent lives. We must come together to universally condemn it and I pay tribute to all noble Lords who have spoken today. Notwithstanding the questions that they have rightly asked, we have come together rightly to condemn this tragedy, in which the current quite strong suggestion is that a bomb was involved.

[Lord Marlesford (Con)]

My Lords, I have no difficulty in accepting the Government’s view that a bomb is a significant possibility. I am sure my noble friend will agree that, if it was a bomb, there is no possibility other than that it was a terrorist incident. As the noble Baroness from the other side said, I think we can all agree that the minimum way of dealing with terrorists is to lock them up. In that context, taking into account the history of terrorism in recent years in Egypt, it is obviously very important to know who is responsible. ISIS has already claimed, apparently, to have downed the aircraft. When do the Government expect to publish the report of the Jenkins inquiry into the terrorist links of the Muslim Brotherhood?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I thank my noble friend for his support of the Government’s position. The review to which he referred is being looked at by the Government and we will, I am sure, look to publish it at the earliest opportunity. He asked about the links we have; indeed, he suggested, and it has been widely reported, that Daesh/ISIL has claimed responsibility. As I was coming into the Chamber I noticed, again through media outlets, that a video to that effect has been released. The threat we face from ISIL/Daesh is real and is leveraging itself not just in that region but beyond.

The other thing I will say about ISIL/Daesh is that its recruitment methods are such that it seeks to recruit not just from different countries within the region but, regrettably, from right here in the United Kingdom. We are taking steps to avert and prevent our citizens travelling to support such a perverse ideology and cause. Wherever we see acts of terror we will collaborate with all right-minded Governments to ensure that we can eradicate it.

HS2

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Thursday 22nd October 2015 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Seccombe]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of the effect of the construction of HS2 on the running of existing rail services.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Transport and Home Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, as part of the hybrid Bill and subsequent additional provisions, HS2 Ltd is required to assess the impact of the construction works on the operational railway. These assessments have been undertaken and are documented in the environmental statement and supplementary environmental statements. Our assessment also includes close working with the relevant train operators, and we will continue to work with them to minimise disruption throughout the development of the overall project.

[Baroness Seccombe (Con)]

My Lords, on Monday of this week I travelled by train from Banbury to London and was dismayed to see that some people were unable to get a seat and stood for the whole of the journey, which is around 60 minutes. HS2 will cost tens of billions of pounds and the cost is obviously still rising. Surely it would be better, and provide greater benefit to the comfort and well-being of thousands of people, if the money were spent instead on other lines up and down the country and, indeed, across the country. That would mean that we could have longer trains, longer carriages and, if necessary, longer platforms, but the important thing is that people should travel in comfort.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My Lords, I assure my noble friend that, as I am sure she is aware, HS2 will be getting underway, and we look forward to it beginning in 2017. I give her the added assurance that HS2 will also give the potential to deliver much better train services to large numbers of towns and cities. I am acutely aware of the challenges she has raised about there not being enough capacity for people, but part of what HS2 will do is deliver extra capacity to places such as Coventry, Rugby and Milton Keynes.

[Lord Berkeley (Lab)]

My Lords, I have read AP3—the latest additional provision from HS2, which he mentioned to the noble Baroness—and I can see nothing in it about the effects of construction, particularly the disruption which will be caused, around Euston and many other sites up the line, by construction lorries. I understand that, for three years during construction, there will be about 720 trucks a day leaving the Camden area with spoil. I declare an interest as chairman of the Rail Freight Group, but surely HS2 should look at moving as many materials as possible by rail.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

The noble Lord raises a quite valid point. We are looking at the issue of disruption from HS2. Again, there are lessons to be learned from places such as London Bridge, Blackfriars, Reading and Birmingham and they are being applied in the development of Euston to ensure that we mitigate whatever disruption there may be, not just to the rail and Tube networks, but to the surrounding local communities as well.

[Viscount Ridley (Con)]

My Lords, could my noble friend confirm that the economic case for HS2, as published by HS2 Ltd in 2013, includes £8.3 billion of benefits that are actually cuts to existing services, under the phrase “released capacity”?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I think the economic case for HS2 is well made.

[Baroness Randerson (LD)]

My Lords, undoubtedly the work on Euston station will be disruptive for existing passengers and, in my view, unnecessarily expensive. Will the Minister agree at least to investigate the alternative proposals put forward by the Euston Express group and to look at a more intensive use of Old Oak Common, which would act as a useful route into London, on a large scale, once Crossrail has links with it?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

The noble Baroness raises the issue of Old Oak Common, which has been part of the consideration for HS2. Let me assure her, and indeed the whole House, that once we have completed the works for HS2 at Euston its capacity, as I am sure she is aware, will go from 18 platforms to 22. These enhancements will help not only with access into London but also across London.

[Lord Grocott (Lab)]

Can the Minister confirm the uncanny resemblance of the objections to HS2 being voiced in this House now to the objections voiced in the 1830s to the building of the original London to Birmingham railway? Does he rejoice, as I do, that the objectors lost that battle eventually? I commend the Government for their persistence in building what is a hugely important infrastructure project for Britain today. Will the Minister also confirm that, should it not be built, the effect on the existing west coast main line of continued and growing overcapacity would be endless delays, weekend occupation of the line and all the problems associated with the construction of a railway while it is still attempting to run?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I do agree with the noble Lord, although I am a bit perturbed by his suggestion that I was around in the 1830s—perhaps he is suggesting I have aged at the Dispatch Box. Nevertheless, there is a valid case to be made here. The primary case for HS2 is establishing links throughout the whole country but it is also important, as the noble Lord said, to address the capacity challenges we currently face on our rail network.

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock (Lab)]

Does the Minister agree that the real economic case for HS2 depends on its extension to Edinburgh and Glasgow? Since there are no objections to it in the north of England and Scotland, would it not be sensible to start building now, as quickly as possible, in the north of England and Scotland? That would also provide a market for British steel.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I commend the noble Lord—he is a great champion for Scotland and for the United Kingdom. The investment we are making in our rail network across the board, not just in HS2, underlines our commitment to ensuring that the whole country is connected. As the noble Lord will be aware, we have laid plans: we are moving forward with the first stage of HS2 in 2017, and great investment is being made in transport for the north and connectivity across Scotland. He makes a very valid point about connectivity across the country, and it is certainly a principle that I support.

[Lord Mawhinney (Con)]

My Lords, my noble friend just talked about enhancing HS2 links across the country—links which are much needed, and the sooner the better. Can he tell your Lordships’ House how he intends to strengthen the links between HS2 and HS1?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

Across the network, with HS1 and HS2 and, as my noble friend will be aware, the plans we have for transport for the north, overall we are investing more than £38 billion in the rail network, which will strengthen links not only with the existing network but with HS2, HS1 and, through Transport for the North, HS3.

Taxi and Private Car Hire Market

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Tuesday 20th October 2015 Lords Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Transport and Home Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, I join other noble Lords in thanking the noble Lord, Lord Bradshaw, for securing this debate in a timely fashion. Perhaps he had some foresight of what was going to happen elsewhere. This is an important issue for the here and now. I also thank all other noble Lords for their valuable contributions, which were often based on not just user experience but their experiences of a very important industry.

Although the Government are ultimately responsible for creating the legislative framework within which local licensing authorities license taxis and private hire vehicles, noble Lords will appreciate that responsibility for licensing rests with local licensing authorities. This question was raised by the noble Lord, Lord Bradshaw, and, on a couple of occasions, by the noble Lord, Lord Rosser. I will come on to the specifics in a moment. It is the licensing authority’s responsibility to decide who is a suitable person to hold a taxi or private hire vehicle driver’s licence or a private hire operator’s licence and to ensure that all licensees comply with the rules and regulations that govern the industry. However, I of course recognise—and the Government recognise—that it is the responsibility for the legislative framework that forms the actual basis of licensing. The noble Lord, Lord Bradshaw, for example, asked the question relating to criminal record checks. They are carried out by the Disclosure and Barring Service at the request of the licensing authority, and it is the responsibility of the local authority to scrutinise that particular check.

The noble Lord, Lord Bradshaw, also raised the issue of understanding English. I think that my noble friend, with his experience of Brussels and Holland, also highlighted the fact that you can get, with the applications that we now see, drivers speaking different languages; but there is a recognition that a language test would be the responsibility of the licensing authority. However, I totally take on board the noble Lord’s point. I am sure that I speak for all noble Lords when I say that, wherever you go in the country—especially if you arrive in a place that is new—a taxi driver is often the source not just of taking you to the right place but of local information and knowledge as well. I am sure that we have all had those conversations in great detail.

My noble friend Lord Borwick, the noble Lords, Lord Rosser and Lord Bradshaw, and the noble Baroness, Lady Randerson, all rightly raised the issue of accessibility. Accessible vehicle provision is again, of course, a matter for the licensing authorities and they are best placed to determine the vehicle fleets in their area. Currently, with regard to London, TfL requires all hackney carriages—as noble Lords will be aware—to be wheelchair accessible, but does not have similar requirements for private hire. I will come on to the Law Commission recommendations in a moment, but one of those recommendations was mandatory disability awareness training for drivers, which would be part of the consideration.

The taxi and private hire industry are a vital part of the public transport story. As well as keeping cities moving 24 hours a day, they are a vital lifeline for those who are unable to use other forms of public transport or their own vehicle. The availability of both taxis and private hire vehicles across the country offers the travelling public real choice. They can either instantly hire a taxi in the street or at a taxi rank; alternatively, they can pre-book a taxi or private hire vehicle. When pre-booking, passengers are able to make an informed choice based on factors such as price, availability and quality. This combination of taxi and private hire ensures that the needs of as many people as possible can be met.

Of course—and several noble Lords made this point—passenger safety must be at the heart of the regulatory regime around the industry, and this must be the top consideration when looking at how the industry evolves and how it is changing. This includes the importance of insurance cover, which was highlighted by my noble friend Lord Crickhowell.

As several noble Lords have pointed out, in London, the traditional London taxi or black cab has become an iconic symbol of the city and the industry as a whole, and continues to play a key role in keeping London moving. It has a history and reputation that drivers are rightly proud of. London’s taxi service is recognised as one of the best in the world. The noble Baroness, Lady Randerson, called it the gold standard. All the vehicles are of a high standard and are fully wheelchair accessible; they are driven by skilled and knowledgeable drivers, a point well made by my noble friends Lord Selsdon and Lord Borwick. We all admire the time and dedication that prospective drivers put into learning the world-famous knowledge of London. This brings the reward of having the unique right to ply for hire on the streets of our capital city.

As all noble Lords recognise, the market is changing. New technology is providing new ways of engaging taxis and private hire vehicles. As my noble friend Lord Callanan pointed out, smartphone booking apps are now available for both taxis and private hire vehicles, not just here in the UK but across Europe as well. They offer people easy access to services, more choice, faster pick-ups and options for sharing, which can reduce the cost for travellers. It is encouraging that the London taxi trade has been at the forefront of this technological change. One can now book a taxi through numerous smartphone apps and more and more drivers are embracing cashless payment options, which again addresses issues around the security and safety of passengers. However, I accept that this new technology is challenging traditional operating boundaries between the taxi and private hire trades. I understand that it is straining the relationship between licensing authorities and the industry, but by working in partnership they can deliver a modern industry that will continue to provide both choice and high standards, focused on customers—a point well made by my noble friend Lord Callanan.

On Uber, the evolution of the private hire sector has helped to ensure that this form of transport is available to all in an inexpensive manner, particularly supporting those who cannot rely on other public transport services. Uber and other new entrants to the market are presenting major challenges to established business models, and I can understand the concern of taxi drivers.

My noble friend Lord Selsdon raised the issue of what Uber is. Uber London Limited has been licensed by Transport for London as a private hire vehicle operator in London since 2012. The company has now applied for and been granted licences in 25 other licensing authority areas in England. As the noble Lord, Lord Rosser, rightly pointed out, Uber is not just an application or a service in London.

To inform noble Lords, although many may well already be aware, in order to be granted a licence, Uber must meet the same standards as any other private hire vehicle operator in the local authority area. Therefore, 26 different authorities have decided that Uber is a “fit and proper” company, its operating model meets the requirements of private hire legislation, and it keeps such records as the law requires.

I know that the London taxi trade fundamentally disagrees with the view of Transport for London on how Uber calculates a fare. Many members of the taxi trade consider Uber’s smartphone app to be essentially a taximeter, which are of course forbidden in London’s private hire vehicles. TfL recognised that the law in respect of this issue was unclear and applied to the High Court for a declaration. The High Court has recently made its judgment that Uber’s smartphone app is not a taximeter and therefore it is not breaching the legislation.

On the question of low emission vehicles raised by the noble Lord, Lord Bradshaw, many areas are concerned about meeting their air quality requirements. Therefore, to assist with these concerns, in April this year the Office for Low Emission Vehicles announced the launch of a £45 million fund to support the rollout of ultra-low emission taxis across the United Kingdom. £20 million of this fund has been identified to encourage a new generation of ultra-low emission taxis. Eight cities have been shortlisted, and the winning schemes will be announced in April next year.

I will briefly address the Law Commission review. While I recognise the standard and commitment of this industry, I also realise that there are areas of concern within the regulatory regime, which was rightly raised by several noble Lords. Noble Lords will be aware that in 2012 the DfT asked the Law Commission to conduct a review of taxi and private hire vehicle legislation throughout England and Wales, including London. This was against the backdrop of the Government’s Red Tape Challenge and legislation that dates back to the first half of the 19th century, as the noble Lord, Lord Bradshaw, pointed out, and the age of horse-drawn hackney carriages.

Despite the more recent legislation to allow for the regulation of private hire vehicles, the recent innovations that I have described have demonstrated that the legislation used to regulate both the taxi and private hire trades is becoming increasingly outdated. Licensing authorities throughout England and Wales are now faced with the challenge of accommodating 21st-century technology in 19th-century legislation.

The Law Commission undertook a very comprehensive review and last year published its final report, which contained recommendations for a modern and simplified structure. The Law Commission’s report not only provided crucial analysis of the problems posed by the current law but also has provided solutions designed to make a difference to both the travelling public and those who work in the industry. Updated and simplified legislation will provide a modern and simple framework, which in turn will ensure public safety and provide the trade with certainty, therefore making growth and competition easier.

The Law Commission has made several suggestions about how the law may be reformed, including one, to pick up on a point raised by the noble Lord, Lord Rosser, that companies and drivers should be allowed to operate across boundaries without the current restrictions. A vital part of this proposal would be the introduction of national standards for drivers and vehicles. I see national standards as having the potential to resolve some of the existing cross-border concerns that are being raised at the moment. I am also aware, however, that some licensing authorities feel restricted in their ability to carry out enforcement actions against vehicles and drivers who are not licensed in their area. National standards would remove the incentive for drivers to go far from home to get a taxi or private hire licence.

The Law Commission has made extensive law recommendations, and these need to be carefully studied before deciding whether to go ahead and what the Government will do next. In this regard I can inform noble Lords that we are already engaged, including the Secretary of State and the Mayor of London, in discussing the implementation of the recommendations from the Law Commission. I can assure noble Lords that the Government will formally respond to the Law Commission and announce its intentions once this scrutiny is completed.

In conclusion, the Government are fully aware of the changes and challenges that are affecting the taxi and private hire vehicle industry, not just here in London but around the country. Not only are there the challenges of new technology and increased competition but also the need to ensure that vehicles play their part in improving air quality. The Government wish to see taxi and private hire form part of the wider public transport agenda, with thriving competitive markets to make sure that we make the best use of emerging technologies while protecting the passengers that travel in them.

I thank noble Lords for their contributions. This is an area and a question to which I am sure we will return. However, I assure noble Lords that it is an area that the Government are considering very carefully, and I suppose at this late hour my concluding remarks are that, however noble Lords choose to travel home this evening, be it a black cab, a private hire vehicle, or indeed public transport, I hope they do so safely and securely.

House adjourned at 9.06 pm.