National Security Act 2023 (Consequential Amendments of Primary Legislation) Regulations 2023
Lord Sharpe of Epsom Excerpts(5 months ago)
Lords ChamberRead Full debate Read Hansard Text Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
Lord Sharpe of Epsom
That the draft Regulations laid before the House on 16 October be approved.
Counter-Terrorism and Border Security Act 2019 (Port Examination Code of Practice) Regulations 2023
Lord Sharpe of Epsom Excerpts(5 months ago)
Lords ChamberRead Full debate Read Hansard Text Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
Lord Sharpe of Epsom
That the draft Regulations laid before the House on 16 October be approved.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Home Office (Lord Sharpe of Epsom) (Con)
My Lords, in moving that the House approves this statutory instrument, I will also speak to the National Security Act 2023 (Video Recording with Sound of Interviews and Associated Code of Practice) Regulations 2023 and the National Security Act 2023 (Consequential Amendments of Primary Legislation) Regulations 2023. All three of these instruments, which were laid on 16 October and debated in the other place on 29 November, relate to measures in the National Security Act.
The National Security Act, which received Royal Assent this July, is the most significant piece of legislation to tackle the increase of state-based threats to our nation in a century. It brings together vital new measures to protect the British public, modernise counterespionage laws and address the evolving threat to our national security. In essence, it provides our world-class law enforcement and intelligence agencies with new and updated tools to do their critical work. We should bring the powers in the Act into force as soon as possible to protect this country. These instruments are an important part of making that happen. Once they are approved and come into force, we can also bring into force Parts 1 to 3 of the Act.
To be clear, these regulations do not create new powers or make changes to primary legislation which has already been approved by Parliament. They are merely supportive of the powers in primary legislation and ensure that the legislation can be implemented effectively and proportionately.
The National Security Act 2023 (Video Recording with Sound of Interviews and Associated Code of Practice) Regulations 2023 create a new code of practice to govern the videorecording of individuals arrested under the Act. Schedule 6 to the Act requires that any interview by a constable of a person detained using the arrest powers in Section 27 must be videorecorded with sound and that the videorecording must be carried out in accordance with the code of practice. This mirrors the requirement for anyone interviewed following an arrest under equivalent terrorism legislation. The code of practice has been based closely on the terrorism equivalent and provides guidance on how interviews should be conducted—for example, with guidance on sealing the recordings of videos, taking breaks during interviews and conducting interviews with deaf people or those who do not understand English.
The Counter-Terrorism and Border Security Act 2019 (Port Examination Code of Practice) Regulations 2023 make an update to the existing code of practice governing the exercise of the port examination power in Schedule 3 to that Act. This power allows accredited counterterrorism police officers to stop and examine individuals to determine whether a person at a port or border area is or has been involved in malign activity on behalf of a state. The amendment to the code of practice simply reflects a change made by the National Security Act. It requires a counterterrorism police officer of at least the rank of superintendent to authorise the retention of copies of confidential business material instead of the Investigatory Powers Commissioner. This change brings the process into line with the equivalent power in terrorism legislation, where it has proven effective and avoided undue burdens on the system.
It is worth noting that the Government carried out a statutory public consultation on the changes to this code and the creation of the videorecording code from 20 July to 31 August. Consultees generally acknowledged that these codes were key to ensuring that police officers have clear guidance on the powers and that the powers are used fairly and proportionately. However, where appropriate, we made further minor changes to meet the concerns of some consultees. For example, following feedback from Scottish policing on the videorecording code, we made minor amendments to ensure that it is consistent with Scottish policing practice and procedure. The full response to this consultation can be found on GOV.UK.
The final instrument in the package is the National Security Act 2023 (Consequential Amendments of Primary Legislation) Regulations 2023. This makes consequential amendments to primary legislation using the power in Section 95 of the National Security Act. Although some consequential amendments are made in Schedule 18 to the Act, the power in Section 95 allows any further amendments to be made as a consequence of the provisions in the National Security Act.
Consequential amendments are a standard part of new legislation. They are required to ensure existing legislation is up to date to reflect changes brought about by the National Security Act. They are not substantive amendments but simply consequential on the creation of the National Security Act.
Several of the amendments concern the Official Secrets Acts 1911, 1920 and 1939, which the National Security Act replaces and repeals. References to those Acts in other legislation are updated to reference the relevant provisions in the National Security Act or, where appropriate, repealed entirely. This includes references to the prohibited places regime in the Official Secrets Act 1911 or the preparatory conduct offence under Section 7 of the Official Secrets Act 1920, both of which have been updated and replaced in the National Security Act.
Other amendments made through this instrument account for other powers and offences created in the National Security Act. For example, amendments to the Criminal Justice and Police Act 2001 account for search and seizure powers created by Schedule 2 to the National Security Act.
To sum up, these instruments simply support primary legislation which has already been agreed by Parliament. Passing them is an important step to bringing this primary legislation into force. I commend them to the House. I beg to move.
Lord Sharpe of Epsom (Con)
My Lords, I thank both noble Lords for their contributions. I will do my best to answer the detailed questions and, if inadvertently I miss any, I will definitely write. This subject matter is technical, but the debate, as ever, has been interesting.
The powers under Schedule 3 to the Counter-Terrorism and Border Security Act 2019 help to protect the public, as I have explained. They allow an officer to stop, question and, when necessary, detain and search individuals and goods travelling through UK ports and the border area, for the purpose of determining whether the person appears to be somebody who is or has been engaged in malign activity on behalf of a state. As has been noted, only officers who have been accredited as having successfully completed relevant training can use these Schedule 3 powers. The changes to authorisation for copies of confidential business material come into force at midnight on 20 December this year. After that point, examining officers will seek authorisation from an officer of at least the rank of superintendent to copy and retain business material of this type. In answer to the noble Baroness, Lady Suttie, the Investigatory Powers Commissioner and the police have been consulted on the date and they are very well prepared for the changes.
I have outlined the timeframe, scope and response of the public consultation on these codes in my opening remarks. The full details of the consultation and the Government’s response can be found on GOV.UK. The Government’s approach to consultation was in accordance with the requirements of the primary legislation. We considered that the six-week consultation was appropriate, given the changes to Schedule 3 on the port stop code were relatively minor and followed changes to primary legislation and the National Security Act video recording code closely followed existing precedent.
The noble Lord, Lord Coaker, asked when the hour started. As far as I am aware—and I will correct this if I am wrong—it starts from the moment of examination, but no one can be detained for more than six hours anyway. On the question about recruitment, that is still under way, as far as I know, but announcements will be forthcoming as soon as possible. Counterterrorism officers are carefully trained in the use of their powers. There are safeguards in place relating to children which are set out in the code. Careful safeguards are also in place for strip-searches in the code. Individuals can also have an interpreter as necessary.
I think that I have answered the questions so, in closing, I reiterate that these instruments provide essential supporting materials and updates to allow the National Security Act to come into force. They do not provide substantive changes to the primary legislation that has already been agreed in Parliament. They will help the police to use the powers in a proportionate and consistent manner in accordance with the primary legislation. These consequential amendments will ensure that existing primary legislation continues to function properly after the commencement of the National Security Act. I commend these regulations to the House.
Violence Against Women and Girls
Lord Sharpe of Epsom Excerpts(5 months ago)
Lords ChamberRead Full debate Read Hansard Text Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
Baroness Chakrabarti
To ask His Majesty’s Government how they propose to prioritise reducing violence against women and girls both domestically and internationally.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Home Office (Lord Sharpe of Epsom) (Con)
My Lords, we are absolutely committed to tackling violence against women and girls at home and abroad. We passed our landmark Domestic Abuse Act and are delivering the Tackling Violence against Women & Girls strategy and the Tackling Domestic Abuse Plan to help keep women and girls safe. Internationally, we are making progress through our flagship “What works to prevent violence” programme and pioneering work to end child marriage and female genital mutilation.
Baroness Chakrabarti (Lab)
I am grateful to the Minister. He will recognise that this Question was tabled in recognition of White Ribbon Day, which was just over a week ago. What additional resources have the Government deployed since last year’s White Ribbon Day to give greater support to victims of sexualised violence in our domestic criminal justice and asylum systems? What support have they given to international mechanisms charged with investigating and prosecuting sexualised violence as a weapon of war?
Lord Sharpe of Epsom (Con)
On noble Baroness’s second question, the Preventing Sexual Violence in Conflict initiative is a key focus for the UK. We are a global leader on this. We have committed £60 million since the launch of this programme in 2012. In November 2022, the UK hosted an international PSVI conference with over 1,000 attendees. A political declaration came out of that, which was endorsed by 53 countries. It sends a clear message that these types of crimes must end and sets out steps on how to achieve that. We have also launched the PSVI strategy, which sets out how the UK will work to drive global action to prevent and respond to CRSV—conflict-related sexual violence—and that includes sanctions. I refer noble Lords to my noble friend Lord Ahmad’s comments on that in June. Regarding the domestic picture, significant amounts of money and resource have been committed. I am sure I will be answering more questions on that shortly.
Lord Pannick (CB)
My Lords, does the Minister share the widespread outrage at the use of rape and other forms of sexual violence by Hamas in Israel on 7 October? Does he also share the widespread outrage that so many individuals and groups who do such excellent work in combating sexual violence have remained silent until now—almost two months since those outrages? Can he think of any reason why in this respect Jewish women do not matter?
Lord Sharpe of Epsom (Con)
My Lords, this is a very sensitive subject. I found Christina Lamb’s article in the Sunday Times very distressing and upsetting, but very powerful. Why did it take the UN so long to condemn those actions? The words of Professor Ruth Halperin-Kaddari, who was quoted in the article, deserve mentioning:
“It’s mindblowing. We were there for our sisters when terrible things happened across the ocean, when they took away abortion rights in US, the killing of women in Iran, the abduction of Yazidis … but with us they looked away and I can’t think of a reasonable answer”.
Unfortunately, I can think of an unreasonable answer, and it disgusts me. From a personal point of view, I hope the perpetrators get what is coming to them—and believe me, I do not mean sanctions.
Baroness Uddin (Non-Afl)
My Lords, I say to the Minister and all noble Lords who have raised concerns that I can never look away from rape as a weapon of war, whoever commits that violence. It is really important that we stand together with those who were victims of rape on 7 October, just as I do with all those still being raped all over the world in the name of war and conflicts. I am deeply unhappy about what is happening to women seeking services in this country. Also, we cannot look away from such detrimental violence perpetrated on the children, girls and women of Palestine, from which they may never recover.
Lord Laming (CB)
My Lords, the Minister will have seen the reports of unaccompanied migrant children being placed in hotels. Many of them have disappeared and the fear is that they are being sexually exploited. Why does the Children Act 1989 not apply to these children once they are in this country?
Lord Sharpe of Epsom (Con)
My Lords, this is an entirely separate subject, as noble Lords know. I accept the premise of the question, but I am going to come back to the noble Lord. There is another Question on this tomorrow where we can go into much more detail.
Baroness Burt of Solihull (LD)
I want to say how powerful I thought the Minister’s reply a couple of questions ago was and commend the noble Baroness, Lady Chakrabarti, on pointing out the role that men can play in raising the issue of domestic violence against women and girls by calling it out. We know that the root cause of violence against women and girls all over the world is inequality, which is getting worse, with previous strides forward being reversed while our budget—particularly for overseas aid—is diminished. What thinking outside the box have the Government done to reduce inequalities and do more with less?
Lord Sharpe of Epsom (Con)
My Lords, it is about how you do things. I have already referred to a few of the things the Government have done, and a significant amount of money is being invested into this area to improve outcomes for victims. Since 2010, we have criminalised forced marriage; criminalised revenge porn; criminalised failing to protect a girl from FGM; introduced Clare’s law, which is a domestic violence disclosure scheme; introduced two new stalking offences; introduced the offence of controlling or coercive behaviour; introduced legislation that recognises as victims children who see, hear or experience the effects of domestic abuse and are related to the perpetrator or victim; and criminalised virginity testing and hymenoplasty. There is so much more that the Government have done; it is not all about money.
Baroness Thornton (Lab)
The Minister mounted a stout defence about the issues of 7 October, which he was right to do. I was proud to be at the conference organised by the noble Lord, Lord Hague, on sexual violence in conflict. It was an important moment for the UK. I am proud of our leadership in tackling violence against women and girls across the world. How will the Minister and his colleagues ensure that the perpetrators are held to account by putting pressure on the United Nations? How could the UK support the victims of these appalling crimes?
Lord Sharpe of Epsom (Con)
The noble Baroness raises two interesting points. I hope that we will support the victims by providing forensic expertise and other skills, as we have in other conflicts around the world. Obviously, the perpetrators have to be caught, and I believe that extensive efforts are under way to catch them. On the longer-term approach, I do not know, but if she would like to chat about it I will happily take her suggestions back to the department.
Baroness Hodgson of Abinger (Con)
What are His Majesty’s Government doing to ensure that girls are not taken out of the country to undergo FGM? Is preventing FGM still a priority in our international development policy?
Lord Sharpe of Epsom (Con)
My Lords, I am happy to tell my noble friend that, yes, it is. Child abuse is a crime, and we will not tolerate this practice, which causes extreme and lifelong physical and psychological suffering to women and girls. Our focus remains on preventing these crimes from happening, supporting and protecting survivors and those at risk, and bringing perpetrators to justice. As my noble friend will be aware, in 2015 we strengthened the law on FGM, which is now an offence. We also extended the reach of extraterritorial offences, introduced lifelong anonymity for victims, introduced civil FGM protection orders and introduced a mandatory reporting duty for known cases. I am pleased to say that there have been two prosecutions for this, one as recently as October, and I believe that sentencing is still awaited—a lot is being done.
Baroness Foster of Aghadrumsee (Non-Afl)
My Lords, I commend my noble friend Lord Pannick on his question, and I commend the Minister’s answer. I will bring us back to the domestic: Christmas is a time when many of us look forward to being with our families, but unfortunately that is not the case for those who suffer from domestic abuse and violence. Given that, will the Minister acknowledge the operation, and the work behind it, by the Police Service of Northern Ireland, Translink and Retail NI, coming up to Christmas, so that they recognise violence against women and girls in a proactive way?
Lord Sharpe of Epsom (Con)
My Lords, I am happy to do that and to announce that the pilot sites for domestic abuse protection notices and prevention orders have been chosen. This will extend the police’s operations across the country when they commence in the spring of 2024. There is a lot more to anticipate on this subject—I hope that we will see things progress in the right direction.
Asylum Seekers: Deportation from France
Lord Sharpe of Epsom Excerpts(5 months ago)
Lords ChamberRead Full debate Read Hansard Text Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
Lord Lilley
To ask His Majesty’s Government what representations they have received about the remarks by Gérald Darmanin, the French interior minister, that his government is prepared to deport asylum seekers deemed dangerous, in breach of rulings of the European Court of Human Rights.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Home Office (Lord Sharpe of Epsom) (Con)
My Lords, French policy on asylum is a matter for the French Government. His Majesty’s Government continue to co-operate closely with France to tackle illegal migration and to keep our borders and citizens safe.
Lord Lilley (Con)
I thank my noble friend for his Answer. Does he recall warnings from human rights lawyers and Foreign Office mandarins that if we were to set aside a ruling of the European Court of Human Rights we would become pariahs, along with Russia and Belarus? Is it not passing strange that, when France announced its intention to do so, there was no outcry? Since 14 November, when it refouled an Uzbek refugee to his homeland despite the court ruling it illegal, risking torture and death, the whole liberal establishment, from the BBC to the UN High Commissioner for Refugees—
Lord Lilley (Con)
—and the SDP—has been as silent as mice. Is there one rule for our friends in Europe and another for Britain?
Lord Sharpe of Epsom (Con)
My Lords, I think it would be wise for me to restate what the Prime Minister has said, which is that he is taking
“the extraordinary step of introducing emergency legislation”.
He made that point on 15 November. He went on to say that he does not believe that
“anyone thinks the founding aim of the European Convention on Human Rights was to stop a sovereign Parliament removing illegal migrants to a country deemed to be safe in Parliamentary statute and binding international law. I do not believe we are alone in that interpretation”.
So I say to my noble friend that I look forward to informed discussion on the recent French decision.
Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede (Lab)
My Lords, I have a simple question for the Minister: have either the new Home Secretary or the new Foreign Secretary met the French Interior Minister?
Viscount Hailsham (Con)
My Lords, in the event that the Government decide to derogate from any part of the convention, would Ministers agree to publish in advance, before doing so, a paper identifying which of our international obligations might be impacted by such a decision?
Lord Sharpe of Epsom (Con)
My Lords, I cannot anticipate what may or may not be in the Bill. Obviously, the Bill will be presented to Parliament in the usual way.
Lord German (LD)
My Lords, what consideration has the Minister given to the views of the same Interior Minister from France that consideration will be given to giving legal status to undocumented people working in sectors with labour shortages? If the Minister were to give consideration effectively to that matter, surely that would help our relationships with the French Government and everything in the immigration system beyond.
Lord Sharpe of Epsom (Con)
I refer the noble Lord to my earlier Answer. I am not going to speculate on or discuss what the French legal system and the French Interior Minister decide about their own domestic policy.
Lord Singh of Wimbledon (CB)
My Lords, deciding whether an asylum seeker is dangerous is subjective. Does the Minister agree that our system is less discriminatory in treating all asylum seekers as a lesser form of life?
Baroness Meacher (CB)
My Lords, can the Minister give the House an absolute assurance that the Government will never consider making a decision that would be in breach of a ruling of the European Court of Human Rights?
Lord Sharpe of Epsom (Con)
As I said earlier, I am not going to speculate as to what will be in future legislation. That will be presented to Parliament in the fullness of time.
Lord Wallace of Saltaire (LD)
My Lords, does the Minister agree with the noble Lord, Lord Lilley, that we on this side are the establishment while the anti-establishment are the poor people who are stuck in government with only the Daily Mail, the Telegraph, GB News and a few others to help them, battling against a profoundly demoralising liberal consensus that somehow they do not seem able to break?
Lord Sharpe of Epsom (Con)
I rather agree with Michel Barnier, with whom I imagine the noble Lord sympathises quite a lot, who said:
“You can find nothing in the French constitution about migration, and there is almost nothing in the European treaties. For 30 or 40 years, there’s a kind of interpretation that is always in favour of the migrants … We have to rewrite something in the … treaties or in”
the European Convention on Human Rights. Is he wrong?
Lord Forsyth of Drumlean (Con)
My Lords, has my noble friend seen the reports in the newspapers that civil servants in the Home Office are deciding that they cannot comply with Ministers’ policy declarations because they are in breach of the Civil Service Code? Is this not a rather alarming development, if true, and can my noble friend tell us exactly what is going on in the Home Office?
Lord Sharpe of Epsom (Con)
I have seen those reports, and I certainly have seen nothing of the sort from any civil servants.
Baroness Chakrabarti (Lab)
My Lords, does the Minister agree that the recent decision of the Supreme Court is a decision of a domestic court, not a foreign one? Does he also agree that its rationale was predominantly based on not the European convention but the refugee convention and various domestic statutes?
Lord Cormack (Con)
My Lords, would it not make much more sense if we talked to the French a little more about processing applicants in France, rather than all this rubbish talk about Rwanda?
Lord Sharpe of Epsom (Con)
My noble friend raises this subject fairly frequently. In March, the Prime Minister and President Macron agreed the largest-ever deal with France to tackle small boat crossings, building on our existing co-operation. As a result of this deal, we have seen a significant uplift of personnel deployed to tackle small boats across northern France and the procurement of new, cutting-edge surveillance technologies and equipment to detect and respond to crossing attempts. So far, over the last calendar year, those efforts—as I have said many times from the Dispatch Box—have stopped, I think, 22,000 attempted crossings. It is probably more by now.
Lord Hannay of Chiswick (CB)
My Lords, the Minister perhaps used the wrong word when he told the House that Monsieur Darmanin had made a decision. He expressed a view; there is in fact a Bill going through the French Parliament at the moment on immigration, and presumably a great deal will depend on what that says.
Lord Sharpe of Epsom (Con)
My Lords, the information I have, which comes from a newspaper report in Le Monde, is that on 14 November the French deported a 39 year-old Uzbek international, even though the ECHR had ruled against it. They did so without waiting for the administrative courts to rule on the case.
Lord Harris of Haringey (Lab)
My Lords, can the Minister assist me? I heard on the “Today” programme this morning that one thing being considered by government—I am not asking him to guess what might be in forthcoming legislation—is that the UK would send to Rwanda people to process the applications and consider their legality, and that if the decision was not to grant asylum, the individuals concerned would be returned to the UK. Why would we waste all that money on airfares if we are simply saying that we will process people but in another country?
Lord Sharpe of Epsom (Con)
The noble Lord said that he is not asking me to guess what is in the legislation, but he just has.
Net Migration
Lord Sharpe of Epsom Excerpts(5 months, 1 week ago)
Lords ChamberRead Full debate Read Hansard Text Watch Debate Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
Lord Green of Deddington
To ask His Majesty’s Government why net migration rose to 745,000 in 2022, according to data published by the Office for National Statistics on 23 November; and what plans they have to reduce it.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Home Office (Lord Sharpe of Epsom) (Con)
My Lords, the increase in net migration since 2021 reflects a number of important factors including the introduction of our humanitarian routes, such as the Ukrainian and British national (overseas) schemes, and an increase in non-EU students and workers. Earlier this year we introduced measures to tackle the substantial rise in students bringing dependants to the UK, and the Government will announce details of further measures to reduce net migration in due course.
Lord Green of Deddington (CB)
My Lords, I thank the Minister for his outline, if I may call it that. It may help the House to consider the last two years of net migration because that comes to a total of 1.2 million people, and the significance of that is that it is the population of Birmingham. When you think about that, of course you think about the enormous expenditure there will be on infrastructure, hospitals and so on in return for a large number of immigrants, many of whom are relatively low paid. The impact on housing, schools, medical services—
Lord Green of Deddington (CB)
I am so sorry; I got that in the wrong order. My question is to ask His Majesty’s Government why net migration rose to 745,000 in 2022, according to data published by the Office for National Statistics on 23 November; and what plans they have to reduce it.
Lord Sharpe of Epsom (Con)
As I alluded to in my opening Answer, there are well-understood reasons why net migration is high at present. Global events such as the world’s recovery from Covid-19, the war in Ukraine, the Taliban takeover in Afghanistan and the national security law in Hong Kong, along with policy changes introduced as part of the new immigration system and the end of EU freedom of movement, have all had an impact on migration. On 23 May the Government acted decisively by announcing a package of measures to reform the student route. We are working on further measures to prevent exploitation and manipulation of the visa system, including clamping down on those who take advantage of the flexibility of the immigration system, and we will announce details of these measures in due course.
Lord Dubs (Lab)
My Lords, will the Minister confirm that asylum seekers coming across the channel by boat are probably between 5% and 7% of the total figure? Is the hostile attention given to asylum seekers not totally disproportionate in relation to inward migration?
Lord Sharpe of Epsom (Con)
My Lords, I have enormous respect for the noble Lord, but these asylum seekers are illegal migrants. They arrive here by methods that facilitate the activities of criminal gangs, they place their own lives and the lives of others at risk while they are in the English Channel, they impose themselves on the generosity of the British taxpayer, and they are jumping the queue of legal migrants. I think there are principles at stake.
Lord Farmer (Con)
My Lords, last week it was reported that the Government will likely breach their own welfare spending cap for the fourth time since its introduction. Some 18% of Manchester is on out-of-work benefits, 20% of Birmingham, Glasgow and Liverpool, 23% of Middlesbrough and 25% of Blackpool. Where mass migration facilitates and is even required by this, porous borders are not progressive. What are the Government doing to get native Britons working again?
Lord Sharpe of Epsom (Con)
My noble friend asks a good question. The Government are encouraging all sectors to adapt, to make employment more attractive to UK domestic workers by offering training, career options and wage increases, and to invest in increased automation technology. Supporting individuals to move into and progress in work is one of the DWP’s core strategic objectives. The Government are committed to supporting individuals who are stuck in low-paid work to progress, helping them to increase their earnings and move into better-paid quality jobs. The Government are extending the support that Jobcentre Plus provides to people in work and on low incomes to help them to increase their earnings and move into better-paid quality jobs. I alert my noble friend to the back to work plan published on 16 November—a plan to get 1.1 million people back into work—and refer him to the Chancellor’s recent Statement which, while raising benefits, also referred to getting people back into work.
Baroness Brinton (LD)
My Lords, in 2021 international students added £42 billion to the UK economy through their fees, living costs and the NHS levy for them and their dependants. Why do this Government constantly portray them as a drain on the UK and why are they proposing to reduce their numbers, rather than recognising their direct contribution to our economy, communities and universities?
Lord Sharpe of Epsom (Con)
My Lords, I do not think that is what the Government are doing. Students are short-term, temporary migrants who leave at the end of their studies. We know from previous research that many also stay in the UK beyond their studies. In keeping with the UN definition of long-term migration, the Office for National Statistics has stated that it will continue to include students in its net migration statistics, and the Home Office supports that position. On the changes I referred to earlier, we should certainly welcome students here; however, we are taking steps to tackle the number of dependants who come with them. That is not inconsistent.
Lord Hannay of Chiswick (CB)
My Lords, following that last question, does the Minister recognise that the higher education sector is one of the major invisible exports that we have in this country, one in which we are truly world leading? Great care has to be taken not to damage that. Will he therefore say whether the Government have considered ways in which fee-paying students can be taken out of this equation, which is becoming so difficult to solve?
Lord Sharpe of Epsom (Con)
My Lords, I just alluded to that. The ONS is operationally independent of government—its work is overseen by the UK Statistics Authority—so any decision around that methodology would be for the ONS. Its definition of a long-term migrant aligns with the UN definition and is anyone who comes to the UK for 12 months or more. Students who remain in the UK for less than 12 months will not, at present, be counted in the ONS estimates. However, I am happy to associate myself with the noble Lord’s remarks about how higher education is a massive export industry for this country. Of course, it delivers enormous soft power benefits too.
Lord Coaker (Lab)
My Lords, how has it come to the point at which net migration is three times the level of 2019, when the Government promised to reduce it? It has taken four years for the Government to come up with any sort of plan, but we do not know what it is because members of the Cabinet are fighting among themselves about what it should be. Can I make one suggestion? Do the Government agree with us that the unfair wage discount, allowing overseas recruits to be paid 20% less than the going rate, should be ended and replaced with proper training and fair pay in the UK?
Lord Sharpe of Epsom (Con)
The noble Lord is referring to the shortage occupation list. The Migration Advisory Committee is clear that immigration can be a sensible solution to occupations that are in shortage, at least in the short term, but the Government believe that no occupation should be on the list for ever. Sectors must therefore present a realistic strategy to end their reliance on migration before such jobs can be added to the list, and compelling evidence that they should remain. We asked the Migration Advisory Committee, as part of its recent review, to consider whether the discounts should be stopped. The Government are considering the recommendations of that review and will respond in due course.
Lord Johnson of Marylebone (Con)
My Lords, can my noble friend the Minister assure me that, notwithstanding former Home Secretary Suella Braverman’s suggestion that she had a deal with the Prime Minister on this matter, there is no plan to axe the graduate route for international students?
Lord Sharpe of Epsom (Con)
I am disappointed that my noble friend is referring back to that letter. I have already been very clear that there are no plans to affect the student graduate route. These measures are specifically targeted at dependants.
Baroness Smith of Newnham (LD)
My Lords, the Minister suggested that people coming on boats are illegal by definition. If somebody from Afghanistan who has an ARAP number arrives in the UK that way because it is the only way they can come here, would the Home Office not give them the asylum to which they are entitled?
Lord Sharpe of Epsom (Con)
It is a very different question if they have an ARAP number. Why would they be leaving France, which is a safe country, to come here on a boat? That makes no sense.
Iranian Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps
Lord Sharpe of Epsom Excerpts(5 months, 1 week ago)
Lords ChamberRead Full debate Read Hansard Text Watch Debate Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
Lord Coaker
To ask His Majesty’s Government what plans they have to proscribe the Iranian Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps as a terrorist organisation.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Home Office (Lord Sharpe of Epsom) (Con)
My Lords, the Government continue to take the threat of the IRGC very seriously and to condemn its actions. The Government will always consider the full range of powers available—including our robust counterterrorism powers, such as the proscription tool, where appropriate—to address the threat posed by Iran and the IRGC.
Lord Coaker (Lab)
My Lords, there is a compelling case for proscribing the IRGC. Scotland Yard says that since the start of 2022, Iran has made 15 attempts to kidnap or even kill British and UK-based people. The director-general of MI5 has warned of Tehran projects posing a threat to the UK. Would not such a proscription be in the interests of national security at home and abroad, as well as peace and security in the Middle East, as highlighted by the current conflict? With the USA and the UK’s Countering Extremism Commissioner now calling for the proscription of the IRGC, what possible reason is there for the Government to delay in outlawing a terrorist organisation that threatens security both at home and abroad?
Lord Sharpe of Epsom (Con)
My Lords, I recognise the strength of feeling in this House, and in the other place, on this subject. Let me explain what the Government have done. The Home Office is leading work on countering Iranian state threats in the UK, making full use of the breadth and expertise of government and our extraordinary and courageous police, security and intelligence agencies. On 1 November, the Security Minister announced in the other place that the Prime Minister has asked him to lead the Defending Democracy Taskforce to build further resilience within our institutions in order to safeguard against physical, personnel and cyber threats.
The National Security Act will provide another significant toolkit in the fight against individuals working for state entities such as the IRGC; it criminalises a wide range of hostile activities conducted by, for or on behalf of foreign powers. Materially assisting a foreign intelligence service in any activity in or related to the UK will be a crime.
We continue to make use of any and every opportunity to call out Iran’s malign activity—I apologise for the long answer but there is a lot to say. More than 350 Iranian individuals and entities have been sanctioned for activities, including human rights violations. Since January 2023, we have sanctioned more than 140 Iranian individuals and entities in response to the regime’s human rights violations. That is being strengthened.
Lord Pannick (CB)
My Lords, is there not a much simpler and shorter answer to the question from the noble Lord, Lord Coaker: the Foreign Office?
Lord Sharpe of Epsom (Con)
It is a shorter answer, I will certainly give the noble Lord that. The Government keep the list of proscribed organisations under review. We do not comment on whether a specific organisation is or is not being considered for proscription. This position has been informed by several considerations, including to avoid creating an expectation that the Government will proscribe a certain organisation, to reduce the risk of an organisation taking evasive action before the proscription order comes into force, and to manage the risk of any subsequent decision being vulnerable to challenge on procedural grounds. The Government will always consider the full range of powers available to tackle threats on our soil.
Lord Cormack (Con)
My Lords, not a single Member of this House, I would think, believes that there is any answer to this question other than “yes”. Can my noble friend please go back to his department and tell the Secretary of State that what we want to hear is that this organisation has been proscribed?
Lord Sharpe of Epsom (Con)
As I said earlier, I fully understand the strength of feeling in both this House and the other place, as does the Home Secretary. I am well aware that 67 cross-party parliamentarians wrote to the Prime Minister requesting proscription in early November. The Home Secretary is due to respond to that.
Baroness Suttie (LD)
My Lords, one of the very worst features of the Islamic Revolutionary Guard is its persecution of young women. Can the Minister explain why the Government still have not put in place a safe and legal route for persecuted Iranian women to seek asylum in the UK?
Lord Sharpe of Epsom (Con)
My Lords, this subject comes up frequently. As noble Lords will be aware, we work with all the relevant UN agencies to ensure safe and legal routes for people such as that.
Baroness Meacher (CB)
My Lords, I very strongly support the Question of the noble Lord, Lord Coaker. This Government proscribed Hamas as a terrorist organisation. The Iranian regime runs Hamas; it tells them what to do; it commands them what to do. Can the Minister, without any further delay, as the noble Lord, Lord Cormack, said, proscribe the Iranian regime as a terrorist organisation, which is of course what it is?
Lord Sharpe of Epsom (Con)
My Lords, we are very clear that Iran poses an unacceptable threat to Israel. We have long condemned Iran’s destabilising activity throughout the region, including its political, financial and military support of several militant and proscribed groups, including Hamas, Hezbollah and the Palestinian Islamic Jihad. As I said earlier, we are committed to working with the international community to ensure that Iran abides by international laws and norms and is held to account for its destabilising activities in the region.
Lord Reid of Cardowan (Lab)
My Lords, I understand that these are fine judgments. The suppression of terrorist organisations can often diminish our operational intelligence, so it is not an easy decision. However, the last time I intervened on this subject was in 2010 in the House of Commons. The Government have had 14 years to review the situation, which the Minister told us was constantly under review. Can he tell us anything that has happened during those 14 years which suggests that we should do other than ban this organisation?
Lord Sharpe of Epsom (Con)
I pay tribute to the noble Lord’s extensive experience in this area and his perspective on it. These are obviously finely calibrated judgments. I am afraid that I will not speculate on what information has been considered over the past 14 years; it would be unwise of me to do so.
The Lord Bishop of Chelmsford
My Lords, it is clear that the Iranian regime does support groups such as Hamas and Hezbollah, including via the IRGC. The Minister will have heard the strength of feeling in this House. However, US officials have confirmed reports that Iran did not have prior notice of Hamas’s attack on Israel on 7 October. What assessment has been made of the true extent of the links between the IRGC and Hamas, and what recent conversations have the UK Government had with Iran to chart a course towards peace in the region?
Lord Sharpe of Epsom (Con)
The right reverend Prelate asks a difficult question in terms of conversations, security and intelligence. I will avoid those subjects, but there are extensive and ongoing conversations with all our international partners to ensure that Iran is held to account on the world stage, and that includes the US.
Lord Grabiner (CB)
My Lords, on the question of the possible involvement of the IRGC on the appalling weekend of 7 October, is the Minister aware of reports at the time of Farsi having been spoken during the intrusion from Gaza into Israel? If that is correct, the implication is plain that the relationship between Hamas and the IRGC is a very strong and rather distressing one.
Lord Sharpe of Epsom (Con)
I am afraid I am not aware of those reports of Farsi having been spoken, but as I have acknowledged, we are aware that Iran funds some of the groups that are under discussion, including Hezbollah and Hamas.
Baroness Foster of Oxton (Con)
My Lords, I agree with the noble Lord, Lord Coaker, and I too asked this question on 15 November in the King’s Speech debate on foreign affairs and defence. The Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps is a death cult run by psychopaths who think nothing of the rape, torture and beheading of civilians in Iran should they dare to dissent. It is they who pull the strings of Hamas and other terrorist groups and who share responsibility for the attack on Israel on 7 October. Can my noble friend tell us when the United Kingdom will join the European Union, the United States of America and other countries in proscribing them as such?
Lord Sharpe of Epsom (Con)
My Lords, I am afraid I have to say to my noble friend, as I have already said a couple of times, that the Government keep the list of proscribed organisations under review. We do not comment on whether a specific organisation is or is not being considered for proscription.
Baroness Foster of Aghadrumsee (Non-Afl)
My Lords, the IRGC has a violent and deep hatred of Jews, Israel, Christianity and the West. On that alone, it should be proscribed. However, proscription is not where it stops. Hamas has been proscribed for some considerable time. When will we see more action on what is happening on the streets of the United Kingdom with those who are supporting Hamas?
Lord Sharpe of Epsom (Con)
My Lords, that is an operational matter for the police, as has also been discussed at the Dispatch Box on a number of occasions. I point to last weekend’s protests, which passed off much more peacefully, it would seem, than some of their predecessors. It is probably too early to say this, but things look to be heading in the right direction regarding the noble Baroness’s question.
Windrush Generation
Lord Sharpe of Epsom Excerpts(5 months, 1 week ago)
Lords ChamberRead Full debate Read Hansard Text Watch Debate Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
Lord Davies of Brixton
To ask His Majesty’s Government what were the reasons for the Home Office’s decision to disband the dedicated team responsible for their Windrush policy; and what assessment they have made of the likelihood that this decision will undermine their commitments to the Windrush Generation.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Home Office (Lord Sharpe of Epsom) (Con)
My Lords, given the significant progress made since 2020, our Windrush lessons learned response has now been embedded into everyday activities. It is our assessment that an embedded approach will better sustain the improvements made so far, and thereby our commitments to the Windrush generation and their descendants. The dedicated Windrush compensation and documentation teams remain in place and there are no plans to close either scheme.
Lord Davies of Brixton (Lab)
I thank the Minister for his reply, but I need to tell him that there is a serious lack of trust in the Government’s intentions. The people I speak to have no faith in the Government’s commitment to implement the policy. Can he give me any idea of what steps he thinks are appropriate in order to restore that level of trust? Might I suggest, in particular, an increase in resources to those delivering the compensation from the Home Office and also in a high commission, so that they see their task as assisting people to get the compensation to which they are entitled?
Lord Sharpe of Epsom (Con)
My Lords, I mentioned the Windrush Lessons Learned Review. The Home Office has implemented the majority of the 30 recommendations made in the 2020 report. Key changes include implementing a new ethical decision-making model, new training for caseworkers, a Permanent Secretary-chaired strategic race board and new forms of scrutiny. As for the compensation scheme to which the noble Lord referred, he will be very pleased to know that the time to allocate a claim for substantive casework consideration has dropped from 18 months to under five months and work is continuing apace on that.
Baroness Benjamin (LD)
My Lords, there is a growing suspicion that the compensation scheme that has been implemented was designed to fail. Procedural delays have meant that only 12.8% of the estimated 11,500 eligible claimants have been compensated. As we have heard, applicants report a growing fear and mistrust of the Home Office, which was responsible for this historic injustice. Many are experiencing trauma as a result of their interactions with the Home Office, so can the Minister explain what steps have been taken to create a replacement policy that is independent, transparent, fair and will include access to legal aid and a right of appeal to an independent tribunal? How soon can this policy be implemented to deal with this Home Office scandal?
Lord Sharpe of Epsom (Con)
My Lords, the compensation scheme was designed to be as clear and simple as possible so that people do not need legal assistance to make a claim. In 2021 and 2022, in response to feedback from and indeed in consultation with stakeholders, we published redesigned claim forms. The new forms are longer but are easier to complete because they include more targeted and closed questions to help people understand and provide the key information that we need from them. The claim forms now have a crystal mark from the Plain English Campaign, demonstrating our commitment to ensuring the scheme is accessible. As the noble Baroness will be aware, the scheme is also subject to independent scrutiny.
Lord Bailey of Paddington (Con)
My Lords, having spoken to many people from my community, which was heavily impacted by this scandal, there has been some understanding that there would be an end to looking at how the compensation was going to be trotted out. Can the Minister give some solace to people who had difficulty in claiming this that it is still a political priority? We hope that is embedded in the Home Office as a tactic, but we need it to be a political priority for this Government.
Lord Sharpe of Epsom (Con)
As I said in my earlier answer, and as stated by the former Home Secretary following the final meeting of the Windrush working group, we are proud of what has been achieved so far but our commitment does not end here. We will continue with unwavering focus to see further improvements so that all those affected receive compensation. I hope it will reassure my noble friend to know that, in its last meeting, there were productive discussions on topics such as an update on future engagement and outreach with the Windrush community. Since February 2023, the Windrush compensation scheme engagement team has attended more than 19 events nationwide, including in the West Midlands, Bristol, Nottinghamshire, Yorkshire, Lancashire, Oxfordshire, Northamptonshire, Bedfordshire and London. I hope that gives my noble friend some of the reassurance he seeks.
Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede (Lab)
My Lords, how many have actually received compensation, how many are waiting for compensation and how many have died while waiting for it? What is the time estimate for clearing the backlog?
Lord Sharpe of Epsom (Con)
My Lords, as of September 2023, over £71 million has been paid across 1,932 claims. Over 75% of claims have received a final decision. As I mentioned in an earlier answer, the time to allocate a claim for substantive casework consideration has dropped from 18 months to under five months. To be clear, that five-month period includes all essential eligibility checks and a preliminary assessment to make an initial payment of £10,000 wherever possible. I will have to write to the noble Lord on his more detailed questions.
Lord Morse (CB)
My Lords, let me make the Minister aware as he considers his future actions that, over my time in charge of the National Audit Office, this was the most shameful set of events I looked at—out of quite a considerable number. It is important to apply that sense of obligation and, frankly, shame at how government performed at that time. This needs to be completed. Those who feel concern should feel that their concerns have been very fully met and carried through until this is thoroughly finished. There is no glory in anything else. In fact, there is no glory in this whole matter at all.
Lord Sharpe of Epsom (Con)
My Lords, I do not disagree with the noble Lord at all. What happened in the Windrush scandal and to its victims was an outrage. It should not have happened and unreserved apologies have rightly been made by successive Home Secretaries. I have tried to outline the work being done in a couple of answers. I should also say that there is no cap or time limit on the compensation—it will continue until all claims are met.
Baroness Manzoor (Con)
My Lords, can my noble friend give an update on the documentation scheme and how the Government are working with the relevant local communities to ensure that they can activate this?
Lord Sharpe of Epsom (Con)
Absolutely. Over 21,400 people have applied to the scheme in the UK; so far, as of the third quarter of 2023, 16,700 individuals have been issued with documentation confirming their status or British citizenship. That includes over 8,500 individuals who have been granted citizenship. As I mentioned—I hope this reassures my noble friend—the engagement with the Windrush compensation scheme also talks about documentation and the documentation scheme. People attend these events and they have been engaging extremely extensively around the country.
Baroness Blower (Lab)
My Lords, given the suffering of the victims of the Windrush generation but also their incredible contribution to British society, does the noble Lord agree with me that this should feature prominently and deeply in the school curriculum—the national curriculum—and should be taught alongside the need for anti-racist understanding?
Lord Sharpe of Epsom (Con)
I would certainly agree that it is incumbent on all of us to learn the lessons of history and to make sure they are widely understood. I am not going to speculate as to what ought to be in the national curriculum, however.
The Lord Bishop of London
My Lords, I thank the Minister for updating us on some of the recommendations from the Windrush Lessons Learned Review. I am particularly encouraged to hear that recommendation 27 in terms of the overarching strategic race advisory board has been implemented. Could the Minister update us on recommendation 26, around how they can demonstrate a diverse and inclusive senior leadership team?
Lord Sharpe of Epsom (Con)
I am afraid I do not have the details on the specific recommendations and the progress, but I will endeavour to find them, and I will write to the right reverend Prelate.
Lord Paddick (Non-Afl)
My Lords, the Minister said that the majority of the recommendations from the lessons learned review had been implemented. Why was the Windrush working group disbanded before all the recommendations had been implemented?
Lord Sharpe of Epsom (Con)
The noble Lord will be aware that the former Home Secretary decided not to proceed with three lesson learned review recommendations —hence my use of the word “majority”. I will not say any more on that subject, because I think it is subject to legal proceedings.
Baroness Lister of Burtersett (Lab)
My Lords, in her progress report on her lessons learned review, Wendy Williams referred to the “central importance” of the hostile/compliant environment policies to the causes of the Windrush scandal and argued that
“The results of the review of the compliant environment policies remain an essential element in the department’s efforts to demonstrate it is learning from past experience and adopting a more compassionate approach”.
Can the Minister therefore tell us what has happened to the review of the hostile/compliant environment?
Lord Sharpe of Epsom (Con)
My Lords, I think I have made it very clear where the Home Office and indeed where the Government stand on this particular subject. As I have said, it was a disgrace and an outrage and it is being corrected through the progress we are making with the Windrush scheme.
Metropolitan Police Reform
Lord Sharpe of Epsom Excerpts(5 months, 1 week ago)
Lords ChamberRead Full debate Read Hansard Text Watch Debate Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
Lord Lexden
To ask His Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of the progress of reform within the Metropolitan Police.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Home Office (Lord Sharpe of Epsom) (Con)
My Lords, reform of the Metropolitan Police Service is vital and the Government fully support the commissioner’s plan, A New Met for London. It is the responsibility of His Majesty’s Inspectorate of Constabulary and Fire & Rescue Services to assess force performance improvement and for the Mayor of London to hold the commissioner to account for the progress being made.
Lord Lexden (Con)
My Lords, I called on the Government exactly a year ago to give Sir Mark Rowley the stronger disciplinary powers for which he was asking in order to root out crime and serious abuse in the Met, which so shocks our country. Instead of taking action, the Government instituted a review. When will Sir Mark finally get the powers he seeks? Must not a thorough clean-up of the Met include calling to account the police officers who failed so grievously during Operation Midland, that infamous investigation that unforgivably hounded two great public servants, Lord Bramall and Lord Brittan? Finally, is it not astonishing that, after several years, the Independent Office for Police Conduct has only now got round to just one serious investigation arising from Operation Midland? That is into the conduct of Mr Steve Rodhouse, the man in charge of the disgraceful operation. On past form, this could drag on for years while Mr Rodhouse enjoys a full salary. Do not those who have suffered deserve better than this?
Lord Sharpe of Epsom (Con)
My Lords, my noble friend is right to point out that we launched a review. That review was concluded and the results were published in September. Noble Lords will be aware of the contents of the review. As regards introducing the powers that Sir Mark clearly needs and has asked for, some of that will require primary legislation; it will form part of the Criminal Justice Bill, which is due to reach Committee stage in the Commons and be debated in January. Some of it will require secondary legislation. We expect that the first tranche of changes will see amendments to the Police (Conduct) Regulations 2020, which should be implemented around April; the second tranche, which covers wider misconduct, vetting and performance measures, is expected to be introduced around June.
Lord Browne of Ladyton (Lab)
My Lords, resignations are now overtaking retirement as the biggest reason for officers leaving the Met. This year, every month but May has seen more resignations, and the equivalent of 100 full-time officers leaving. Given the importance of institutional memory to policing, what assessment have the Government made of the reasons for this ongoing exodus? Consequent on that assessment, what discussions has the new Home Secretary had with the Mayor of London and the Met’s commissioner about the challenges inherent in retaining Met personnel?
Lord Sharpe of Epsom (Con)
My Lords, the first thing to say is that officer strength at the moment is 34,899—at least it was in March 2023—which is up from 33,367 in March 2010; that is the highest number of officers the Metropolitan Police Service has had to date. As regards the conversations of the Home Secretary, the Home Secretary and the Policing Minister have met with the commissioner in the past two weeks. We fully support HMICFRS in identifying areas of poor performance and have seen the commissioner act swiftly to set out his planned improvements, which are necessary, through the plan that I just mentioned, A New Met for London. The Home Office is also a member of the HMICFRS police performance oversight group. We monitor progress and ensure that the Metropolitan Police gets the support it needs from across the policing sector to improve as quickly as possible.
Baroness Butler-Sloss (CB)
My Lords, having heard the Minister’s dates for secondary and not primary legislation, why on earth is it taking so long?
Lord Sharpe of Epsom (Con)
The noble and learned Baroness asks me a very good question; I am afraid that I do not understand the inner workings of the secondary legislation and SI process, but I will find out.
Baroness Doocey (LD)
My Lords, last month, the police watchdog published an urgent report warning of the serious risks posed to London’s most vulnerable children by the Met’s ongoing failures in child protection. This issue was first highlighted in a damning report by HMICFRS six years ago. It cannot be allowed to continue. Have the Government met the commissioner and the Mayor of London to demand action now—that is, not in a month’s time or a year’s time? This is serious and it must be sorted out now.
Lord Sharpe of Epsom (Con)
The noble Baroness is quite right that this problem dates back. As she pointed out, in October, HMICFRS issued two accelerated causes of concern due to significant failures in how the Metropolitan Police responds to children reported missing and also to those at risk of child and sexual criminal exploitation. As I mentioned in a previous answer, the Home Secretary and the commissioner have met a couple of times over the past week, as has the Policing Minister. HMICFRS publishes quarterly reports on the progress that the Met is making with regard to child protection. In regard to the two recommendations that have recently been mentioned, HMICFRS has provided two recommendations encouraging swift and tangible progress on those issues to the Metropolitan Police with timelines for delivery by the end of this year.
Lord Woodley (Lab)
My Lords, the recent increase in the number of massive demonstrations in central London is a positive sign of a politically engaged population. However, they place huge extra pressure on our police, with many officers—perhaps hundreds if not thousands—being drafted in from right across the country to help. What assessment has the Minister made of the impact on police capacity, effectiveness and morale?
Lord Sharpe of Epsom (Con)
The noble Lord makes a good point. I thank all the officers from around the country who have been drafted in to assist with the policing of these protests. I was very pleased to see that, at the weekend, the protest passed largely without too much trouble. As regards morale, that would be for the commissioner to share with us but, as I said, conversations are current, topical and ongoing.
Lord Cormack (Con)
My Lords, I revert to a point made by my noble friend Lord Lexdon in his admirable Question. Two Members of your Lordships’ House who are now sadly no longer with us, Lord Brittan and Lord Bramall, were traduced in an almost unimaginable way as a result of Operation Midland. I know that noble Lords throughout the House feel very strongly on this. Why can there not be, even at this stage, a proper investigation into Operation Midland, including precisely what went wrong and why?
Lord Sharpe of Epsom (Con)
My noble friend raises an interesting subject. It has been raised with me at this Dispatch Box 14 times over the past two years. I am afraid that my answer is not going to change. It will remain consistent across those 14, now 15, answers: the Government have no plans to interfere in this.
Lord Coaker (Lab)
My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Lexden, made an important point about serious misconduct, as did the noble and learned Baroness, Lady Butler-Sloss. The Minister said that he was going to take it back. This is of extreme urgency. If the Metropolitan Police is to command confidence and trust, it will take two years to deal with the approximately 1,000 police officers who are suspended or on restricted duties. The public have to know that those 1,000 officers and however many are uncovered by the commissioner will be dealt with quickly and speedily according to new misconduct regulations because the current ones seriously do not work. Can the Minister tackle this as a matter of urgency?
Lord Sharpe of Epsom (Con)
I agree with the noble Lord that it is a matter of urgency—of course it is—but it is also urgent that we get it right and make sure that all the possible unintended consequences are dealt with well in advance of implementing what are in some cases new, pretty draconian regulations, particularly with regard to how police officers might lose their careers. It deserves careful thought rather than coming back to the Dispatch Box and unpicking mistakes that might be made because we acted in haste.
Lord Rooker (Lab)
Can I ask Minister about his answer to the noble and learned Baroness, Lady Butler-Sloss? My understanding is that primary legislation is drafted by parliamentary counsel and that statutory instruments are drafted by the department’s lawyers. So what is the problem inside the Home Office? It is in charge of the lawyers there; it is not parliamentary counsel. It ought to be quicker than it is at the moment.
Lord Sharpe of Epsom (Con)
That is perhaps the case but, of course, we still have to find parliamentary time for these things.
Lord Bach (Lab)
My Lords, why do we have to wait for the Criminal Justice Bill before the statutory instruments can be produced in this particular case? Could we not move to a statutory instrument straightaway so that this long delay, which seems to be all-pervasive here, can at least be shortened to an extent?
Lord Sharpe of Epsom (Con)
I would very much like to see it shortened. I do not know the answer to that but I will come back.
Justification Decision (Scientific Age Imaging) Regulations 2023
Lord Sharpe of Epsom Excerpts(5 months, 1 week ago)
Lords ChamberRead Full debate Read Hansard Text Watch Debate Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
Lord Sharpe of Epsom
That the draft Regulations laid before the House on 13 September be approved.
Relevant document: 55th Report from the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee, Session 2022-23 (special attention drawn to the instrument)
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Home Office (Lord Sharpe of Epsom) (Con)
My Lords, I thank all noble Lords for attending this debate. The first of these instruments, the Justification Decision (Scientific Age Imaging) Regulations 2023, sets out the affirmative decision made by the Lord Chancellor and Secretary of State for Justice on the Home Office’s application to use ionising radiation, also known as X-rays, as a scientific method of age assessment for age-disputed individuals subject to immigration control.
The second instrument, the Immigration (Age Assessments) Regulations 2023, has been laid by the Home Office to specify scientific methods of age assessment, namely analysis of X-ray and MRI images of certain body areas. By specifying scientific methods in this instrument, a decision-maker will be required to take into account a refusal to consent to the specified methods without good reason as damaging to an age-disputed person’s credibility.
On the use of X-rays, I remind noble Lords that the Ministry of Justice, as the justifying authority, has determined the practice justified under the Justification of Practices Involving Ionising Radiation Regulations 2004.
A regret amendment has been tabled by the noble Baroness, Lady Brinton, against both statutory instruments, and therefore the debates have been grouped. The Ministry of Justice has made the justification decision independently from the Home Office, as required by the 2004 regulations. I am sure noble Lords will understand that I cannot speak to this justification decision, as it is imperative that the justification authority is functionally separate from all other persons concerned with the promotion or utilisation of the practice. However, I can speak to the process the Ministry of Justice undertook to make this decision.
I turn first to that instrument. Under the Justification of Practices Involving Ionising Radiation Regulations 2004, the Lord Chancellor has the powers as the nominated justifying authority to determine whether the individual or societal benefits of this practice outweigh the health detriments, and therefore whether it can be justified. Following a thorough statutory application, consultation and decision-making process, the justifying authority has determined that the Home Office’s proposed practice was a new class or type of practice and that this can be justified, subject to the following conditions.
The first condition is that scientific age assessment involving ionising radiation is limited to radiography of the third molar and/or of the hand and wrist only. The use of computed tomography, or CT, scans for the purposes of assessing age is not permitted. The second is that the results of radiography of the third molar and/or of the hand and wrist must be used to assess only whether there is more support of the claimed age of the age-disputed person, or the age that assigned social workers have assessed them to be following a Merton-compliant age assessment. A likelihood ratio approach must be used to compare the weight of evidence.
The Home Office has committed to ensuring that all exposures are appropriate under the relevant legislation. The Home Office is also committed to exploring the viability of non-ionising scientific methods of age assessment, with the aim of eliminating the use of ionising radiation in age assessments if and when the effectiveness of such alternative methods is validated. The justifying authority notes this commitment and encourages the Home Office to cease using X-rays when alternative methods are validated.
The Lord Chancellor wishes to thank the consultees for their detailed and wide-ranging contributions in helping him make his decision, and the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee for its thorough scrutiny of this statutory instrument.
I turn now to the Home Office instrument—the Immigration (Age Assessments) Regulations 2023. These regulations are being introduced to improve our current age assessment process, which is under pressure from rising numbers of age disputes, and relate to the introduction of scientific methods of age assessment. Since 2017, there has been an upward trend in the number of unaccompanied children entering the UK. In 2019, 3,775 unaccompanied children applied for asylum. In 2022, this had risen by 39% to 5,242. There has also been a rise in the number of age disputes; between 2016 and June 2023, there were 11,275 age disputes raised and subsequently resolved following an age assessment, of which nearly half—49%, 5,551 assessments—found the individual to be an adult.
Age assessment is a complex and difficult task. Many unaccompanied young people claiming to be children arrive in the UK without official documentation. While some are undoubtedly under the age of 18, in many instances it is not clear-cut. It is an unfortunate reality that some individuals misrepresent their age to gain an unfair immigration advantage. The public would rightly expect us to strengthen our processes accordingly.
The introduction of scientific age assessments is intended to improve our age-assessment system by providing additional biological evidence to aid better informed and more thorough decisions on age. Scientific age assessment will be one piece of evidence used alongside the existing Merton-compliant age assessment process, which is a holistic, social worker-led assessment. Importantly, the UK is one of very few European countries that does not currently employ scientific methods of age assessment. These regulations pave the way to the UK being more aligned with international practices.
This instrument specifies scientific methods for age assessment purposes, which are magnetic resonance imaging of the clavicle and the bones of the knee and radiographs of the lower wisdom teeth and the bones of the hand and wrist. These images will be used to assess the skeletal and dental development, or maturation, of the bones and teeth. These methods have been recommended by the Age Estimation Science Advisory Committee.
Once scientific methods have been specified, where an age-disputed person refuses to consent, without reasonable grounds, to the use of those methods as part of the assessment of their age, a decision-maker must take into account that refusal to consent as damaging the age-disputed person’s credibility. This is referred to as “negative inference”. The damage to credibility included in this instrument is only for the purpose of deciding whether to believe any statement they made that is relevant to the assessment of their age, not for deciding the person’s credibility in their wider immigration claim.
The Home Office considers negative inference appropriate and proportionate to deter individuals who deliberately misrepresent their age in order to game the system. A refusal to consent to a specified scientific method of age assessment without reasonable grounds would not automatically preclude the individual being considered a child. That refusal would still need to be taken into account alongside other relevant evidence as part of a comprehensive, holistic age-assessment process by social workers.
Noble Lords should also note that there has to be reasonable doubt about an individual’s age for them to go through the age-assessment process and be reassured that those who are clearly children will be identified at the initial age-determination process at the border.
I should note that the Supreme Court judgment in relation to the UK’s agreement on the relocation of individuals to Rwanda bears no impact on the Immigration (Age Assessments) Regulations. Protecting genuine children, preventing abuse of the immigration system by those who knowingly misrepresent their age and improving our asylum system overall remain a priority for the Government.
I look forward to hearing the views of this House on the instrument before us today. I commend both sets of draft regulations to the House. I beg to move.
Amendment to the Motion
Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede (Lab)
My Lords, I will discard most of my speech because all the points I was going to make have been made articulately. We will support the noble Baroness, Lady Brinton, if she chooses to test the opinion of the House and I thank her for the thoroughness with which she introduced her amendment to the Motion. I agree with her that this SI is not yet ready to be put on the statute book.
The Minister set out the figures, which have been repeated a number of times as the debate has progressed. A number of questions were put to him about the issue of consent, the state of the European Convention on Human Rights, and answering the questions put by the Children’s Commissioner and other bodies which have expressed their extreme concern about the measures being put forward by the Government.
The noble Lord, Lord Murray, just intervened, giving examples of European countries which do some form of tested age assessment. However, this is of course a contested area in many European countries; we are not unique in this being a politically contested issue.
Noble Lords also made a point about the review mechanism that the Government propose to put in place so that, as this progresses—if indeed it does progress—the Government can keep an open mind about how effective it is and whether further changes in assessment methods need to be made. However, I want to conclude on a different point which no other noble Lord has made, and to talk slightly wider than the SIs themselves.
Last May, with my noble friend Lord Coaker, I visited the old RAF Manston airfield and the landing site, Western Jet Foil, in Dover harbour. I repeat my thanks to the noble Lord, Lord Murray, for facilitating that visit. What became apparent to me then is that all the political debate, including today’s debate, is about the vast majority of young men who are potentially claiming to be under 18, and the impact that has on them. That is the totality of the political debate. However, there is another group of young men, which was drawn to my attention, who appear to the officials to be under 18 but are claiming to be adults. They are doing that because they want to work, either legally or illegally. Many of them will have started working in their home countries when they were 14, and they will have had a few years work under their belt and are coming here to better their prospects.
What tracking is there of those young men? I have raised this issue with the noble Lord, Lord Murray, and as far as I am aware, there is no tracking of them. Whether they are more likely to abscond once they go into the adult system or whether the Home Office tracks them at all, it is a significant, not an insignificant cohort. It was drawn to my attention when I made that visit and I will be very interested to hear the noble Lord’s answer, maybe by letter, on how those young men are tracked.
Lord Sharpe of Epsom (Con)
My Lords, I thank all noble Lords for their contributions to this interesting and insightful debate. I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Brinton, for her regret amendment, which I will obviously refute, because the introduction of scientific methods of age assessment is an innovative approach for the UK. It is entirely right that the Government take action to disincentivise individuals from deliberately misrepresenting their age in order to game the system, as well as to safeguard and promote the welfare of genuine children, who have a need to access children’s services. Scientific methods provide additional evidence and create a more consistent system, and there is nothing inhumane about those objectives. I hope that noble Lords will consider each regulation on its merits, and I will do my best to answer all the questions. If I miss any, I will endeavour to write.
The question of accuracy has come up. Determining the age of a young person is an inherently difficult task. The Home Office is aware that there is no current single age-assessment method, scientific or not, that can determine an individual’s age with precision. In answer to the noble Lord, Lord German, there is a risk of harm to both the age-disputed individual and to the public interest through misclassifying children as adults, or adults as children, which the noble Lord, Lord Ponsonby, referred to—I will come back to this. That is why the UK Government are taking steps to improve the robustness of the age-assessment process. Scientific age assessment will be completed alongside the current Merton-compliant age assessment, and the age-assessment process will remain a holistic assessment. The well-being of the individual will continue to be at the forefront. I am happy to say categorically to the noble Baroness, Lady Lister, that scientific methods will not replace, but will be used alongside, Merton. The noble Lord, Lord Winston, asked me how accurate these methods are. For X-rays, I do not know—I will find out—but for teeth X-rays it is two years either side. I will come back to this in more detail in a second.
On international comparators, to which my noble friend referred, the Home Office believes that the negative credibility inference in respect of someone’s claimed age is necessary, logical and proportionate where a person refuses to undergo a scientific age assessment without good reason. It is important to note that negative consequences, such as automatic assumptions, are applied with variations by a number of ECHR signatories, including the Netherlands, Luxembourg, Poland, Slovakia and the Czech Republic. The UK is an outlier as one of the very few European countries that do not currently employ scientific methods such as X-rays as part of age assessments.
On our plans for operationalisation, the Home Office wants to specify these methods as soon as possible to pave the way for the introduction of scientific age assessments. The increasing number of age-disputed young people presents safeguarding challenges and puts additional pressure on children’s services, which should be accessed only by genuine children. This is a new and complex process that the Government need to get right. The full plans for integrating scientific age assessments into the existing processes will be set out in good time, and full guidance and assessments will be provided. For now, the Home Office has welcomed the report from the Age Estimation Science Advisory Committee and is making clear steps to proceed with the recommendations and consider others.
Consent was raised by a number of noble Lords, including the noble Baronesses, Lady Brinton and Lady Lister, the noble Lord, Lord Kerr, and the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of London. To address the concerns regarding consent, I assure all that no X-ray or MRI image can or will be taken without informed consent from the individual. The Home Office will ensure that the individual has capacity, fully understands the process and is communicated to in a child-friendly and clear way. Interpreters will be available to assist with understanding information, and documents will be translated into a language the individual understands. If the individual refuses to consent to a scientific age assessment, they will continue to proceed with the current Merton-compliant age assessment. Those who are clearly children will be identified as part of the initial age assessment and not included in the cohort for an age assessment.
It is the Home Office’s policy to refer individuals for an age assessment only when there is some doubt about their age—specifically, where that individual’s physical appearance and demeanour do not very strongly suggest that they are significantly over 18. This threshold is set purposefully high to ensure that individuals can be given the benefit of the doubt. As a result, only those whose ages are in genuine doubt would be referred for this scientific age assessment.
Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle (GP)
My Lords, the Minister has repeated a statement he made in his introduction about it being only the clear-cut cases. Can he explain how, in the year to August, in just one city—Leeds—30 children arrived, having been assessed as adults by the Home Office on initial arrival, and were immediately identified by people in Leeds as children? Will those children not face the potential of ionising radiation and other medical procedures as a result of this regulation?
Lord Sharpe of Epsom (Con)
I am not familiar with the case that the noble Baroness refers to, so I am afraid I will have to look into it.
Individuals will be assessed for their fitness to undergo scientific age assessment, which will include consideration of both mental and physical health. The individual will not undergo scientific age assessment if they refuse to consent. Reasonable grounds for refusal will be set out in guidance and considered on a case-by-case basis. Appropriate adults, translators and others will be available to support the young person. If a young person is assessed as lacking the capacity to consent, they will not undergo any such methods and a negative credibility inference will not be taken.
Provisions under the Nationality and Borders Act 2022 allow for decision-makers to make a negative inference. As I have said, the Home Office considers negative inference to be proportionate to prevent individuals deliberately frustrating the system. There is precedent in other legislation of negative consequences being applied where an individual refuses to submit to a medical examination. For example, an individual may be asked to undergo a medical examination to determine their eligibility for employment and support allowance. If they fail to undergo such an assessment, they will be treated as ineligible. Therefore, consent can still be informed and freely given even if there is a negative consequence for a refusal to give that consent.
It is important to note that taking a negative inference from a refusal to consent does not result in an automatic assumption that the individual is an adult. Rather, the negative inference is taken into account as part of the overall decision on age. A decision-maker can still assess an individual to be a child following the holistic age-assessment process, even if they refuse to consent to scientific methods without good reason.
I will answer the questions from the noble Lord, Lord Ponsonby, and the noble Baroness, Lady Hamwee, about monitoring and review. The Ministry of Justice will monitor and review the Home Office’s use of X-rays approved by this instrument and compliance with the conditions as per Regulation 10 of the Justification of Practices Involving Ionising Radiation Regulations 2004.
I would like to reassure the House that, as this is a new practice in the UK, the Home Office will monitor and review the policy to evaluate its success and make any changes necessary for its effective operationalisation. The Home Office will not do this in isolation but will continue to seek advice from the Age Estimation Science Advisory Committee and key stakeholders to support the process. Quarterly datasets including age disputes are already published on GOV.UK and, when scientific methods of age assessment are introduced, the Home Office will ensure that the relevant statistics are published alongside them.
The noble Baroness, Lady Brinton, questioned whether these regulations should be made before a full impact assessment and costings have been laid before Parliament. As I stated, scientific methods will be integrated into the current age-assessment process. A full impact assessment has not been produced at this point as it would not provide the rigour of economic value required at the early stage. The Home Office recognises the importance of transparency—please be assured that a full impact assessment will be prepared when appropriate, as my right honourable friend the Immigration Minister said in the other place.
I will go into the costs in a little more detail. As I have said, we could not provide the rigour of economic value that the impact assessment would require. Instead, the Home Office has produced an economic note that pertains to the narrow focus of the SI—the impact of introducing the specified methods for age-assessment purposes. We have decided not to publish this yet, as the information provided would be isolated from wider plans; it is the Home Office’s view to wait until we have an appropriate level of detail to better reassure and inform the public of our plans. As policy and operational development continue, the Home Office will take a view on when it is appropriate to produce the full impact assessment.
Lord Kerr of Kinlochard (CB)
I am rather surprised that the Minister has repeated the bits of the Home Office written evidence that struck me as a bit odd. The clue, surely, to the timing of an impact assessment is in the name: impact. It should be there at the start. We are not terribly interested in an impact assessment two or three years down the line. We would have liked to have one today.
Lord Sharpe of Epsom (Con)
I take the noble Lord’s point; obviously, I will take it back to the Home Office and make sure that it is well understood.
On the use of X-rays, I remind the House that the Ministry of Justice has determined the practice is justified under the Justification of Practices Involving Ionising Radiation Regulations 2004. The Ministry of Justice made this decision to justify the practice independently from the Home Office, as they are functionally separate on the policy of age assessment as required by the 2004 regulations.
Your Lordships will know that X-ray scans are commonly used in the UK for medical purposes by doctors and dentists. Although age assessment is for non-medical purposes, images will be taken by qualified professionals who are trained to minimise exposure to ionising radiation and any other potential risks. We expect all professionals to abide by their own professional guidelines, as well as any set out in Home Office guidance, but medical professionals are required by the relevant legislation for ionising radiation.
The Age Estimation Science Advisory Committee suggests that any risk associated with this low level of exposure to ionising radiation is minimal when compared to the benefits of swifter, more informed age assessment in terms of both safeguarding and well-being.
Lord Winston (Lab)
The word “benefits” applies to the subject who is being X-rayed, does it not? Can the Minister tell us what the benefits to that subject are because it does not apply otherwise?
Lord Sharpe of Epsom (Con)
I am coming on to some more of the noble Lord’s more detailed questions; I will endeavour to answer that question in a second.
The Ministry of Justice has undertaken a detailed consideration process to ensure that the use of X-rays is proportionate and justified. The noble Lord asked how we will ensure that the use of these scientific methods is ethical and not harmful to children. We have a statutory commitment to safeguard the welfare of children. One of the reasons for introducing scientific age assessment is to better protect against adults being treated as children in order to ensure that vulnerable children can swiftly access the support that they need. The use of ionising radiation is, for instance, highly regulated by the Justification of Practices Involving Ionising Radiation Regulations 2004, which require demonstration that the individual or societal benefits of their use outweigh any health detriments. For the methods that the Age Estimation Science Advisory Committee proposes, the ionisation risks are extremely low.
The Home Office will ensure that any methods used comply with all regulatory requirements and standards. AESAC suggests that radiation exposure is minimal when compared to the benefits of a more informed age assessment. For the purposes of the methods that the committee proposes, the ionisation risks are extremely low, as I have said. They are typically less than 0.001 of a millisievert for an extremity X-ray, such as the wrist, or 0.2 of a millisievert for a dental—I will not be able to pronounce this—X-ray. Those radiation risks relate to something like less than two hours on an international flight, I believe.
I turn to the AESAC advice and the automatic assumption. On the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee’s concern that the application of negative inference is contrary to advice provided by the Age Estimation Science Advisory Committee, let me assure the House that this is not the case. In answer to the noble Baroness, Lady Hamwee, I should also say that the Government’s Chief Scientific Adviser, Patrick Vallance, and the Chief Medical Office, Chris Whitty, have supported this. The scientific advisory committee recommended that no automatic assumption or consequence should result from a refusal to consent. Taking a negative inference does not result in an automatic consequence; rather, the negative inference is taken into account as part of the overall decision.
I forgot to address the points raised by the noble Lord, Lord Winston, about various protected characteristics: environmental factors, race, diet and so on. We are conscious, of course, that methods to assess age such as bone development are affected by factors such as ethnicity, body mass, sex, puberty and so on. We are seeking scientific advice to explore this issue further and any steps we can take to mitigate these impacts. The Age Estimation Science Advisory Committee’s advice suggests that, although skeletal maturation may differ slightly depending on ethnicity, there is also some evidence to suggest that differences in nutritional status, disease and social status may have more influence on maturation timings. In addition, dental development is less affected by such socio-economic factors; that is one of the reasons why the AESAC recommends using multiple biological areas of interest, which the Home Office is proposing to do.
I want to take this opportunity to thank the Age Estimation Science Advisory Committee for its report because, as I have set out, the science and analysis is being used as per the committee’s recommendations. The Home Office will not use the scientific methods to determine an exact age or age range; rather, it will use the science to establish whether the claimed age of the age-disputed person is possible. It is key that methods used for age assessment have a known margin of error. Combining assessment of dental and skeletal development of multiple body areas is important as it increases the accuracy of the approach. The Age Estimation Science Advisory Committee advocates for a likelihood ratio method, which offers a logical and consistent summary of the evidence and permits greater confidence in the assessment of whether the claimed age is possible. The likelihood ratio is widely recognised as the appropriate way to summarise evidence, and this approach offers the best way forward for the introduction to scientific age assessments to strengthen our system.
The noble Lady Baroness, Lady Lister, asked who we have consulted. The Ministry of Justice consulted all the statutory consultees listed under the regulations, including the UK Health Security Agency and the Health and Safety Executive. The full list can be found in our decision document. In the review of the consultees, the Health and Safety Executive, the Office for Nuclear Regulation, the Environment Agency, the Scottish Environment Protection Agency, Natural Resources Wales and the Department of the Environment (Northern Ireland) have confirmed that this application falls outside their regulatory interests. However, the UK Health Security Agency, the Health and Safety Executive and the Food Standards Agency advise the following:
“The decision to use X-ray imaging appears well considered and appropriate to minimise any individual’s radiation exposure”.
All exposures to ionising radiation will fall under the remit of the Ionising Radiation (Medical Exposure) Regulations, which place many responsibilities on those carrying out exposures. There should be careful consideration to ensure that the contracted parties carrying out the exposures conform to these regulations and that the predicted doses for both dental and wrist X-rays are appropriate estimates.
I have probably spoken for long enough—I have definitely spoken for long enough. I owe the noble Lord, Lord Ponsonby, an answer to his question about children pretending to be or behaving as adults. I will come back to him on that; I do not have the detail to hand, as your Lordships can imagine. I think I have addressed the majority of the issues that were brought up. As I said earlier, I am grateful for noble Lords’ constructive and helpful suggestions and questions. I trust that noble Lords will now recognise the need for this instrument; I assure them that the Government are fully committed to working towards a better-informed and more consistent age-assessment process. This instrument is essential to that aim; I therefore commend it to the House.
Baroness Brinton (LD)
My Lords, I thank the Minister for his response. Unfortunately, I fear that many of the questions we asked across the House were not responded to. I heard very clearly that this has been designed as an innovative approach to discourage applicants but I also heard a lot of “We need to wait until we have more detail before we can tell you the answers to the questions that we want”.
I refer right back to the beginning of this debate. The noble Lord, Lord Murray, gave an absolute assurance at the Dispatch Box that the regulation-making power would not be exercised until the science is sufficiently accurate to support providing for an automatic assumption of adulthood. These SIs do not do that—worse, the Government say that they know they are not ready. On that basis, I wish to test the opinion of the House.
Immigration (Age Assessments) Regulations 2023
Lord Sharpe of Epsom Excerpts(5 months, 1 week ago)
Lords ChamberRead Full debate Read Hansard Text Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
Lord Sharpe of Epsom
That the draft Regulations laid before the House on 14 September be approved.
Relevant document: 55th Report from the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee, Session 2022-23 (special attention drawn to the instrument)
Amendment to the Motion