Immigration Bill (Fifth sitting)
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Gavin Newlands (Paisley and Renfrewshire North) (SNP)
It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Bone. I rise to support amendments 56 to 58 and 62 to 64, but I will focus on the first three of those amendments lest I test the Committee’s patience.
Clause 2 is perhaps the only clause that my Scottish National party colleagues and I fully support. I wish that were the case for the remainder of the Bill, but I am afraid it is downhill from here. It is an outrage that we are talking about modern day slavery. The director of labour market enforcement, first and foremost, should be used to take action against exploitative employers and to protect workers from being abused and taken advantage of. Nice chap though he is, there is not much on which I agree with the Minister for Immigration on this Bill—or anything else for that matter. However, I find myself in the unusual position of agreeing with him that it is unacceptable for any employer to recruit staff whom they think they can exploit because those employees are less likely or less able to complain about working conditions. It is a scandal that we still have to talk about slavery and exploitation in modern-day Britain. However, that is the experience facing many workers, particularly migrant workers, when they clock in each morning. I am sure that we have all been appalled, upset and angered by the frequent newspaper reports on the level of exploitation that some migrant workers have faced and, truth be told, we could possibly be accused of not responding appropriately or quickly enough.
I hope that the recruitment of a new director of labour market enforcement is the first step in addressing the plight of many migrant workers. It should be welcomed that we have already started to talk about the work that the director will undertake, and the strategy in clause 2 outlines the action that will be taken to eradicate modern day slavery and exploitation in the workplace. There is currently a worrying lack of information on the level of exploitation faced by migrant workers. We do not know how many are being exploited. We have little evidence of the physical exploitation that they face, and we have little insight into the activities of gangmasters.
Therefore, amendment 57, which is supported by Focus on Labour Exploitation among others, would allow us to gain a greater understanding of the challenges to operating successful, fair and effective labour market enforcement. An assessment of the risks will allow us to gain the appropriate level of evidence so that we can take action against rogue employers. The amendment details our vision for addressing the exploitation that can arise from illegal migrant working and the steps that should be taken to gather the required level of evidence. Amendment 58 would ensure that we can use the evidence that has been gathered to take an evidence-based approach to addressing worker exploitation. That is important, as it prevents any prejudice-based opinions or judgments from influencing what action should be taken.
During our evidence sessions last week, Caroline Robinson of Focus on Labour Exploitation said:
“The point about the protective purpose of the director is very important. For us, the core purpose of that role should be the protection of vulnerable workers and the prevention of exploitation. That has been at the centre of the work of the Gangmasters Licensing Authority and has been part of its success. That authority, as we know, operates on a limited budget, so the resources are also of critical importance. On the role of the director of labour market enforcement and the labour market enforcement strategy, what most concerns us is the power of the director to hold control of the budgets, governance of those labour inspectorates and shifting budgets according to the strategy.”––[Official Report, Immigration Public Bill Committee, 20 October 2015; c. 27, Q54.]
She also raised the point that, along with the director, the inspectorate needs further resources to ensure that our position is comparable to that of other EU countries. At the moment we have just 0.9 inspectors per 100,000 workers.
Anne McLaughlin
Other hon. Members have mentioned that figure; I will give a bit more information to put it into perspective. As the hon. Member for South Shields said, that figure compares very unfavourably with figures for the rest of Europe. In Ireland, for instance, there are 4.6 inspectors per 100,000 workers, Belgium has 12.5 and France has 18.9. I got that information from a policy blueprint published by FLEX in the past couple of weeks. FLEX has said:
“Enforcement of employment law…is at desperate levels, creating the perfect conditions for modern slavery to take place.”
I agree that there must be proper funding for inspection, otherwise it is pointless.
Gavin Newlands
My hon. Friend has highlighted the paucity of resources in this area, something that we will come back to time and again throughout this debate.
The resources question, raised by amendment 56, was also a cause of concern for Professor Sir David Metcalf, the chair of the Migration Advisory Committee. During our evidence session last Tuesday, Professor Metcalf raised concerns about the resources required to enforce measures and punish rogue employers who are failing to abide by labour market enforcement. After we have gathered evidence on labour market enforcement, we cannot be put in a position where we cannot use that evidence effectively because of a lack of resources. Professor Metcalf stated that, as things stand, he does not believe that the director will have the resources to be able to effectively deal with the problem of worker exploitation.
Professor Metcalf also stated that when working on the implementation and enforcement of the minimum wage he estimated that an employer would get a visit from HMRC once every 250 years and there would be a prosecution once in 1 million years. Quite frankly, that is a ridiculous position for us to find ourselves in, and we cannot allow ourselves to be put in it when it comes to tackling the issue of workers who are being exploited. Amendment 56 would require that the resources required to tackle the problem should be set out and calculated.
As I have said, we broadly support the clause, but clarification is required on a few matters, not least resourcing for the position of director. In our evidence session last week, Professor Metcalf said
“I suspect we just do not have the public finances for sufficient enforcement”
before going on to say that
“in the Bill, it does not actually set out quite what the resources are.”––[Official Report, Immigration Public Bill Committee, 20 October 2015; c. 18-19, Q33-36.]
I hope the Minister will go some way to answering that point today or else will support amendment 56, which would allow the new director the opportunity to assess the required resources.
Paul Blomfield
I will speak to a number of the amendments in the group, starting with amendment 14. Following on from our earlier discussion, it is important—
Immigration Bill (Sixth sitting)
Gavin Newlands Excerpts(8 years, 6 months ago)
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Gavin Newlands (Paisley and Renfrewshire North) (SNP)
The clause and schedule pertain to the Licensing Act 2003, which is England and Wales legislation, but clause 10(2) empowers the Secretary of State to implement, by regulation, similar changes to Scotland. That is completely unacceptable and goes against the spirit of devolution and the Sewel convention. I am sure that the Minister will argue that it pertains to immigration, which is reserved, but it obviously has a big impact on a devolved matter.
Powers that ride roughshod over primary legislation—whether that is here in Westminster or at Holyrood in Edinburgh—without proper scrutiny by elected Members should be used very sparingly. The measure should be dealt with in primary legislation subject to debate prior to a legislative consent motion. The Government state that a significant proportion of illegal working happens on licensed premises where there is the sale of alcohol and late-night refreshment or the provision of entertainment. I have previously received an answer from the Minister, which confirms that the UK Government have no evidence that suggests that takeaways and off-licences are far more likely to employ illegal migrants compared to other businesses. That rather highlights the lack of evidence base for this part of the Bill. Surely, the starting point for any legislation is the requirement of evidence. To use hearsay or assertion in supporting this or any other legislation makes for neither good politics nor good law. Even if Members accept the premise of the proposal, the very need for this part of the Bill is called into question by John Miley, the chair of the National Association of Licensing and Enforcement Officers, who stated:
“Generally speaking, licensing authorities do not work in silos. They work in the broader scheme of things, and work with the police and the Security Industry Authority and more generally with immigration. Good work is currently going on in quite a lot of cases.”––[Official Report, Immigration Public Bill Committee, 20 October 2015; c. 32, Q67.]
The most concerning thing about the provision is the new power whereby an immigration officer
who has
“reason to believe that any premises are being used for a licensable activity”
can enter the premises
“with a view to seeing whether an offence under any of the Immigration Acts is being committed in connection with the carrying on of the activity.”
That terminology is a big concern to my colleagues and me. As framed, it gives immigration officers a very wide power to search any licensed premises. Home Office statistics show that an alarming number of offences pertain to small businesses that serve ethnic cuisines and are therefore likely to be run by ethnic minority owners. Is that because they are the gravest offenders or because they are searched most frequently? Will the same be true of licensed premises? The Migrant Rights Network states:
“These are small businesses who will be less able to deal with the additional burden of carrying out and recording frequent and complex immigration checks.”
The Secretary of State is given an additional power, as she can object to the granting of the licence, and that is to be taken into account by the licensing authority. Again, that is a completely devolved area and highlights the need for further reflection by the Government. Unlike other sections of the Bill, the Home Secretary is given leave to appeal against the granting of a licence or refusal to cancel a licence despite her objection. This is additional bureaucracy that most businesses will not welcome and that is surely not in keeping with a long-term economic plan.
Restaurants and bars—especially those serving ethnic cuisines—feature heavily on the list of those given civil penalties for employing illegal workers. Is that because they employ illegal workers more frequently than other employers or because they are targeted more frequently for enforcement activity? If it is the latter, can the Minister tell us why?
In concluding, I should point out to the Committee that if the clause is passed, we will table further amendments on Report to remove the power to extend the provision to Scotland through regulations.
James Brokenshire
As I have indicated, there are ongoing discussions with the Scottish Government about the impact of the clause and the potential for regulations. While the hon. Member for Paisley and Renfrewshire North and I were in agreement this morning, this may be a point on which we are not of the same view.
As the underlying purpose of the clause relates to immigration, our view is that a legislative consent motion is not required. We are in the process of consulting the Scottish Government on any necessary amendments to make provision for Scotland on the face of the Bill, and similarly for Northern Ireland. Management information for 2014-15 highlighted a number of operations from immigration enforcement in Scotland.
The hon. Gentleman asked me for evidence of why we think this is an important area to legislate on by building a mechanism into the licensing provisions—evidence of people with no status in the UK being captured within those sanctions and mechanisms. Of all civil penalties served in the year to June 2015, I am advised that 82% were served on the retail industry or hotel, restaurant and leisure industry, a large proportion of which hold premises or personal alcohol licences. That is why we see this as an issue affecting a particular sector. In building the legislative framework, it seems appropriate to strengthen the mechanisms available and to build the provisions in the Licensing Act and the potential sanctions in this way.
I appreciate the points that the hon. Gentleman makes and the different view he holds, but it is for the purposes I outlined that we view this as a reserved matter and are taking this stance. I assure him that discussions continue with the Scottish Government on how this may be applied within Scotland.
Question put, That the clause stand part of the Bill.
Immigration Bill (Third sitting)
Gavin Newlands Excerpts(8 years, 6 months ago)
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The Chair
Six Members are trying to get in, so just bear that in mind—we have 35 minutes to go.
Gavin Newlands (Paisley and Renfrewshire North) (SNP)
Q 223 I have two questions, the first of which is on the Bill’s evidence base. I sent the Minister a number of questions, one of which Mr Gill referenced earlier, on the evidence base that the Minister was unable to answer. For example, one was about evidence relating to the size of businesses employing illegal migrants, as the Bill focuses largely on small and medium-sized enterprises. How strong does the panel feel that the evidence base is in the Bill?
Don Flynn: Perhaps I could help with that one. I think the answer is that the evidence base is not strong. Certainly in areas such as the position of migrants in the workforce, for example, it seems to be predicated on a whole series of assertions about migrants contributing to exploitation, unfair business practices and things of that nature. There has been a fair bit of research, and a new book has been published just in the last week or so looking at the relationship between forced labour and a whole range of issues. The position seems to be that as far as the UK is concerned, there is not a particularly strong relationship between immigration and those practices. Immigrants with insecure immigration status are not concentrated in workforces that only consist of illegal migrants. What is far more typical is that they are working alongside all sorts of other vulnerable types of workers and insecure workers.
The problem with this is that there is a point at which the illegal worker—the undocumented worker—actually tips over from being the criminal, as it is being phrased in the Bill, to being the victim of crime, the person whose situation is being taken advantage of. That requires a very different response from the one that seems to be being imposed—the requirement for strong policing and draconian threats of expropriation of earnings and whatever assets have been acquired. As I say, there are huge amounts of evidence at the moment—there is an industry as far as academia is concerned—looking at the situation of migrants in the labour force. It is very hard to see whether that sustains the sort of claims that underpin at least a couple of key sections in the Bill.
Gavin Newlands
Would the rest of panel like to comment?
Adrian Berry: If we look at the landlord and tenant regime and the right to rent that was introduced for a civil penalty regime under the Immigration Act 2014, there has only been a very modest pilot of that programme in the west midlands. It has not been expanded nationally and here we are, post-general election, with an augmentation of that regime to impose criminal sanctions on landlords and to provide for summary eviction of people who lack a right to rent without protection of the court. We struggle to see what evidence base there is for strengthening a regime that has barely been born. Perhaps business was left undone in the last Act because of an inability to secure political consent, but the innovations in this Bill that look at that particular regime cannot really have a base in evidence, because we do not know how the existing regime is going to work—it is just being brought in at the moment.
Jerome Phelps: On detention, there is certainly a real lack of evidence base. Reducing access to section 4—to a bail address—would clearly save a certain amount of money from the asylum support budget. What does not seem to have been considered is the extra spending on detention costs or long-term detention; the extra spending on unlawful detention compensation pay-outs, which goes to the High Court; and, potentially, the long-term extra spending of the Home Office on trying to track down people who have absconded because they have nowhere to live and they can no longer be traced.
Colin Yeo: If legislation is about solving problems, if we look at the appeals provisions and the immigration bail provisions, it is hard to see anything other than that the problems being addressed are the Home Office’s losing too many appeals and the Home Office’s losing too many bail applications, or not getting the conditions it wants. Those are not the right problems to be addressing, in my view, and it is not the right way to address them. We should be looking at the quality of decision making instead.
Gavin Newlands
Q 224 My second question is about enforcement. What concerns do you have about the new enforcement powers that immigration officers will be given, particularly in relation to their lack of training compared with police officers, and the lack of judicial oversight?
Colin Yeo: Very concerned. The best evidence base on this is the work of the chief inspector of borders and immigration, formerly John Vine and now David Bolt. In the reports that the chief inspector has put together, he has been very critical of the exercise of enforcement powers by immigration officers. In a couple of reports from March 2014, for example, he found that immigration officers were granted the power to enter business premises without a warrant in two thirds of cases, without justification; he also found unlawful use of power, ineffective management oversight, major variations in local practice and inadequate staff training across all grades—really serious concerns are being raised. Reports on removals and emergency travel documents are, again, very critical of Home Office management of the process and training. The idea that more powers should be given to people who are already exercising them in a very questionable way is somewhat dubious, in my view.
Craig Whittaker
Q 225 I want to clarify a couple of things that were said a little earlier. Mr Flynn and Mr Berry, you were talking about migrants in general, and I presume you were not talking about the vast majority of migrants who come to this country in a legal position. I just want to clarify that you were talking about potentially illegal immigrants, rather than the vast majority of immigrants, who are legal.
Don Flynn: I was talking about the general effect of migrants in the labour force, which is often cited as having a role in making conditions worse for UK workers. That has been particularly accentuated by what are called illegal migrant workers—there is an added emphasis there that it is causing wages to be forced down and exploitation to flourish.
Immigration Bill (First sitting)
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Gavin Newlands (Paisley and Renfrewshire North) (SNP)
Q 28 I have two very quick questions. One is for Mr Wilkes, following on from my colleague’s question. Do you think there is a danger that the Bill might contravene the Children (Scotland) Act 1995?
John Wilkes: I do think there is a risk of that. That is why I believe the Committee needs to scrutinise these things, and similarly for the provisions of the Children Act in England and Wales. I believe that is why you need to have a consideration of legislative consent, to ensure that those submissions are made about the potential impacts of that.
Gavin Newlands
Q 29 Thank you. One explanation given for the failure of a 2005 pilot of terminating support was lack of faith in the asylum process. Is there any reason to believe that people have any more faith in that process now?
Judith Dennis: Among those people whose cases are dealt with by experienced and skilled caseworkers, probably. I was very impressed during a visit to one office where a family had a range of complex reasons for being here, including some of those alluded to earlier, and the caseworker took time to understand the complex problems and tried to resolve each one. We can have faith in those people. Unfortunately, it is not really an incentivised skill.
The Chair
Order. I am afraid the time has beaten us and I must bring this session to an end. I thank the witnesses so much for coming. You can see the interest of Members and I am sure we could have gone on for longer, but thank you for coming.
Examination of Witness
Professor Sir David Metcalf gave evidence.
Post-Study Work Visa (Scotland)
Gavin Newlands Excerpts(8 years, 6 months ago)
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Gavin Newlands (Paisley and Renfrewshire North) (SNP)
I beg to move,
That this House has considered the operation of the post-study work visa in Scotland.
It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Hollobone. I hope the House will note the views of students, graduates, academics, Universities Scotland, the National Union of Students Scotland, colleges, the Scottish Parliament and the business community, which are all calling for the UK Government’s decision to revoke the post-study work visa to be reversed. That broad coalition claims that the Government’s reckless decision hinders the student experience, is devastating for Scotland’s universities and colleges, and damages businesses’ ability to grow their operations.
The post-study work visa is an almost unique area of policy, in that it unites all Scotland’s political parties, including the Scottish Conservatives. In Scotland, we would call it a no-brainer. The post-study work visa, introduced in 2004, was one of new Labour’s few genuinely effective policies. It made a positive contribution to Scotland politically, economically and socially—an exception to prove the rule, some might say.
As the humanitarian crisis affecting refugees from Syria illustrates, Scotland has a proud record of welcoming people from all over the world. We value the contribution that our international students make to and in our communities, towns, workplaces, classes and lecture theatres. They internationalise our experiences and make us more informed and culturally aware.
One of the best things about Paisley is that the University of the West of Scotland’s main campus is located at the top of our high street. UWS is a fantastic university. It opens its doors to students who would normally not get the chance to access higher education, and it provides an excellent student experience. Although I was not a student at UWS, I have strong connections with it: my wife just enrolled there, and my dad will graduate from it in a few weeks’ time. Additionally, three of my staff graduated from UWS, two of whom served as student presidents of the university. Although they graduated at different times and with different degrees, they all agree that studying and working alongside and socialising with the international cohort was the best thing about their time at university. It opened their eyes to different cultures and a different way of working, and they became better students as a result.
Learning from others at university can be just as important as the academic education a person receives. That is the crux of the issue. The UK Government fail to understand the positive and real impact that the PSW visa has on Scotland. Although the Home Secretary believes that the PSW visa benefits only those from outside the European Union, the truth is that we all benefit from having international students studying and living in our communities. That is why the broad coalition I spoke of is united in its desire to see the post-study work visa reintroduced. We believe there is a clear, demonstrable demographic and skills need, along with wider and immeasurable social and economic benefits to restoring that route into work.
Carol Monaghan (Glasgow North West) (SNP)
Does my hon. Friend agree that one of the real benefits of a post-study work visa is that the experience, qualifications and expertise that those students have gained in our universities can be used in our communities to grow our economy? Otherwise, that expertise would return to their countries and be taken away from our communities.
Gavin Newlands
My hon. Friend makes a very good point. When the Minister sums up, can she explain why everyone else is wrong and her Government are right in believing that the post-study work visa is bad for universities, colleges and businesses?
Student leaders, such as the National Union of Students Scotland, have long supported the post-study work visa, as they have first-hand experience of the benefits that international students bring to our campuses. NUS Scotland states that international students enrich the curriculum, diversify the university experience and help improve the skill sets of our home students. I have received such feedback not only from NUS Scotland but from students who live in my constituency. Regardless of which university they study at or which course or subject they study, our home-based students all speak positively about the impact that their international colleagues have on their time at university. Although Members here probably graduated a good few moons ago, I am sure they would all say that their university experience was richer for studying alongside students with backgrounds different from their own.
Kirsten Oswald (East Renfrewshire) (SNP)
I echo my hon. Friend’s words. I have worked in the Scottish further education sector for the past 12 years, and there are absolutely real cultural, social and economic benefits to having a diverse student populations in our colleges and universities. Our global competitors are very happy to welcome those valuable international students and everything they have with open arms—other places will benefit from things our communities should be benefiting from.
Gavin Newlands
That was a very strong point from my hon. Friend.
NUS Scotland rightly points out that Scotland’s equivalent of the post-study work visa, the fresh talent initiative, attracted prospective international students to consider Scotland as a place to study. The Higher Education Statistics Agency suggests that the number of students from overseas markets enrolling in Scotland’s universities has declined substantially since the Home Secretary closed the post-study work opportunity. For example, recent research undertaken by the Scottish Government’s Post Study Work working group suggests that the number of new entrants to Scottish universities from India fell by 63% between 2010-11 and 2013-14.
The ending of the visa sends a clear message to that important international market that Britain is closed for business. How does the Minister respond to such damning statistics? Does she think that the fall in the number of students coming from India and other key international markets is good for universities?
During my research into the impact caused by the removal of the visa, I spoke to a number of graduates who stated that their teamworking and language skills increased as a result of working in diverse groups that contained members who came from another part of the world. They said that it created obvious challenges, although mostly for the international students who struggled to comprehend a strong west of Scotland dialect—something that Members here can appreciate. The experience of working alongside international students helped those graduates to prepare for the world of work. We need to ensure that our graduates are able to work with different cultures, and university is key in preparing them for an increasingly globalised workplace.
It is clear that students, student leaders and graduates appreciate the opportunities that the visa provided. It made Scottish universities a more attractive destination, diversified the curriculum, improved our university experience and helped to improve the skill sets of our home students. However, not only students support it. Academics have also played an important part in calling for the restoration of the visa. As well as acknowledging the benefits that international students bring to their campuses, academic leaders cannot stress enough the importance of the economic benefits that international students bring to Scotland’s higher education system.
Most non-EU students make a significant and vital contribution to Scotland’s education sector and national economy; they do not come here, receive a free education and go back to their own country as soon as they have graduated. They pay fees—in some cases, up to £24,000 a year to study at one of our top universities—and spend money while living here on accommodation, living costs and the occasional drink. According to the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills, Scottish universities received £374 million from non-EU student course fees in 2012-13. While studying in Scotland, international students also contributed to the Scottish economy through off-campus expenditure, estimated at £441 million a year. In times of austerity, we surely cannot refuse to accept that income.
Hon. Members will be aware of Scotland’s fantastic reputation for higher education. Scotland now has five universities in the most recent Times Higher Education world ranking’s top 200, and three in the top 100. Those rankings assess performance in a number of areas, including employee reputation, staff-student ratios, research citations and academic reputation. Scotland well and truly punches above its weight in providing an excellent university education, and I pay tribute to the work of the Scottish Government, university staff and students in achieving that success. We should build on the reputation that Scotland’s higher education system has worked so hard to cultivate—not denigrate it, as ending the PSW visa programme is doing. We can improve our reputation and sustain our excellent academic record by restoring the visa. A failure to do so will cause us to fall behind our international competitors.
Universities are measured on their academic record and attractiveness. Can the UK Government say with any authority that the UK is an attractive place to study since the ability to live in, work in and contribute to Scotland has been removed? The decline in the number of international students choosing to study in the UK clearly shows that the UK is falling behind in international competitiveness and attractiveness. Don’t just take our word for it: the all-party parliamentary group on migration produced a report in February. Its Tory vice-chairman noted:
“Higher education is one of our country’s leading export success stories…But the government’s current approach to post-study work and student migration policy is jeopardising Britain’s position in the global race for talent.”
Higher education is not the only sector feeling the impact of the removal of the visa. Further education colleges are also calling for this important route into work to be reinstated. I am fortunate to have the Paisley campus of West College Scotland in my constituency. During my first recess as MP for Paisley and Renfrewshire North, I made it a priority to meet the college’s principal, Audrey Cumberford. During my meeting with Audrey, we spoke about several important issues affecting the college, including its success following a recent merger. However, we also spoke about the challenges that the college is facing and the major test confronting the college sector as a result of the Home Secretary’s decision to revoke the visa.
Like others in the FE sector, Audrey Cumberford claims that the post-study work visa was an important factor in attracting the best international student talent to Scotland. It secured essential income for colleges and allowed college and university graduates to continue to contribute to Scotland at the end of their studies. It could be argued that colleges have actually been hit harder following the demise of the visa as the number of international students studying in Scotland’s colleges fell from 2,039 in 2010-11 to 561 in 2013-14—a shocking and inexcusable fall of 72%. What is the Minister’s response to that shocking decline? What support can the Government provide to current students who are losing out from not being able to study alongside students from other countries?
Audrey Cumberford serves not only as the principal of West College Scotland, but as the chairwoman of the Renfrewshire chamber of commerce, playing an important role in supporting local businesses. She speaks to businesses from around the world on a regular basis, hearing about the opportunities and challenges that exist when setting up and operating a business in the UK. Again, business leaders are uniting with students, universities, academics, the NUS and colleges in calling for the reintroduction of the post-study work visa. The Post Study Work working group is quite damning in its claim that the UK Government’s decision to revoke international students’ ability to work after graduating from university is acting as a barrier to economic growth in Scotland. In fact, the results of a consultative survey found that 90% of businesses in Scotland were in favour of the reintroduction of the post-study work visa. Is there another policy programme that nine out of 10 businesses oppose and that businesses claim is having a detrimental impact on their operations? Surely the Conservatives, the self-proclaimed party of business, would want to do something to help them.
Businesses in Scotland claim that they are losing out on recruiting highly skilled workers now that the option of employing a highly skilled and qualified overseas graduate is no longer available. From a job market point of view, there is no reason whatever not to allow such students to take up the job opportunities waiting for them. They would pay tax and contribute to our communities and we should allow them to pay the country back for the education that they have received. The Government talk about reducing wasteful spend, but training these students, pouring thousands of pounds into educating them and then allowing another country to reap the benefits is surely the ultimate waste of money.
Businesses are also refuting the UK Government’s claim that international students will take jobs away from UK-based students. The fact of the matter is that a skill shortage exists in Scotland and the Post Study Work working group acknowledged the role that international student recruitment could have on filling that gap. Significant skill gaps exist in areas such as financial services, food technology, engineering and IT, and we should reduce the constraints on such businesses to allow them to recruit skilled international workers and make use of them to train up domestic workers. Would one approach to help meet the skills gap not be the restoration of the post-study work visa?
In conclusion, I hope that in my first Westminster Hall debate I have been able to articulate the views of the broad coalition that wants the post-study work visa to be reintroduced. The matter has been brought to the attention of the Scottish Affairs Committee time and again as it consults with Scots from a variety of sectors. It bears repeating that it is rare to find a policy area that unites all major Scottish political parties in addition to business, civic Scotland and the higher and further education sectors. The UK Government are finding themselves increasingly isolated on the matter and the decision consistently to reject calls for the PSW visa to be reintroduced does nothing for their reputation as being deaf to and out of touch with the Scottish public when it comes to immigration matters. We are in a post-referendum period and the ball is well and truly in the UK Government’s court. There is civic consensus and unanimity across all political parties in Scotland that post-study work visas should be reintroduced.
Scotland’s immigration needs are different from those in the rest of the UK, and we welcome the contribution that new Scots make to our economy and society. A post-study work visa is an important lever for attracting the best international student talent. The Smith Commission recommendations clearly outlined that Scotland should have more flexibility within the current UK-wide framework for immigration. The Government have consistently indicated a willingness to listen to the arguments and make amendments to the Scotland Bill, but they have consistently failed to follow their words with action. I offer the Government yet another opportunity to show that they can listen. There is room in the Smith agreement to devolve the administration of student visas, so I ask the minister to give that serious consideration.
Immigration Bill (Second sitting)
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Mims Davies
Q 94 Fantastic. Are you also able to expand on the CBI’s concerns about the apprenticeships levy? It is obviously the Government’s ambition to see apprenticeships grow. Will the levy affect your members, or the immigration skills charge? What is the impact that you see on businesses?
Neil Carberry: Apprenticeship levies are quite complex at the moment because there are two of them. They have become known in the CBI’s employment team as the big levy and the little levy. There is the large apprenticeship funding model levy, which is a deep concern for the CBI.
On the question of the skills charge, although we do not welcome additional costs, we fundamentally disagree with the idea that immigration is used to resolve skills issues and to avoid training, because companies in the UK do extensive amounts of training—more than many other large western European competitors in terms of spending.
Having said that, if there is to be a skills charge, we need to make sure that it is effectively targeted, so that the money raised does go into apprenticeships that are training people towards the levels of skills that people who came in on a visa were helping to resolve the shortage of. More broadly, it is probably preferable to us that these charges exist than that we make changes to the pay bands for tier 2 migration. Additional cost for a visa is one thing, but being unable to get a person you need at any given point because of changes to the pay bands is more of a business problem. For us, in the grand scheme of things, although we do not like it, we would rather have an immigration skills charge than a much higher entry level of pay to bring people in.
Gavin Newlands (Paisley and Renfrewshire North) (SNP)
Q 95 In trying to target action against criminals who exploit workers, which is something we can all agree on, do you think the Bill blurs the lines between employment law and criminal activity?
Neil Carberry: I think that is a significant risk, less so around the role of the director than the recent discussion about expanding the role of the Gangmasters Licensing Authority. The role of the GLA so far has largely been an employment process. Since its creation the GLA has spent rather more time telling my members where the commas should be in employment contracts, which is an employment issue, than kicking down doors in parts of the country where doors need to be kicked down.
My sense is that we need to maintain that gap, for exactly the reasons that your colleague raised earlier, which are that employment law is a civil issue; most of its infraction is inadvertent or due to lack of knowledge, so it is really important that people are able to address that—there are routes for people to address that—and it is about the bit of the labour market where workers are not able to secure their rights, which should be at issue in the Bill. The CBI’s test for this Bill, in practice, when it finishes its passage, is to make sure that the actions contained within it are about addressing those issues of exploitation.
Gavin Newlands
Q 96 Do you think that it should be employers’ or the Government’s responsibility to prevent illegal working, especially given the move away from civil penalties to criminal charges?
Neil Carberry: I think employers should have a duty to ensure that their workforce have the right to work in the United Kingdom—that is probably accepted by our members—at the point of hiring. The issues that we have often faced are issues of establishing that fact in a timely fashion.
James Brokenshire
Q 97 Just to come back on that last question, what is your assessment of the level of knowledge among your members, recognising that part of the role of the labour market enforcement strategy, which the director will obviously have a key role in developing, is to focus on advice to the Secretary of State about education and training? What further steps, in practice, should be undertaken around that, and what about the role of the director in that piece?
Neil Carberry: There is an analogy here, slightly oddly, with the process of automatic enrolment in pension schemes. The Pensions Regulator for many years dealt with some very large companies, which had large defined-benefit pension schemes, kind of knew what they were doing and spent a lot of money on compliance. In many of our largest members, immigration compliance is a million pound a year commitment, because of the scale of it and the reputational risks that we have already discussed. We live in a world in which company size is gradually getting smaller, and has been for 20 or 25 years; the majority of firms are small businesses, and the majority of our members at the CBI are small businesses, often with limited HR capacity. The transition that, for instance, the Pensions Regulator had to make to talking to businesses that had never even heard of it and offering support—it is still struggling to get that right now, but progress is being made—is exactly the same transition that we need to make in this space. It really is helping smaller businesses to understand their duties and the support on offer to them that will be critical to making sure that illegal working action is effective.
Rebecca Harris
Q 113 Thank you. That takes me back to the other point, which is about making working illegal, in particular, although it equally applies to some of the other measures in the Bill. I put it to one of our earlier witnesses that quite a lot of potential migrants—even those who might be considered to be being trafficked or abused or taken advantage of when they get here—are quite well informed about the rules and the system here, and, as you said, their chances of remaining indefinitely. Would you say that they are more likely to know that it will be illegal and more difficult to work here, and will that, along with the other measures in the Bill, stop the draw factor? We were told this morning that it was unlikely that people who come from abroad would really know what the rules were here.
Lord Green of Deddington: I do not think that we should underestimate the intelligence of people because they come here illegally. For a start, there is very strong communication within communities, whether you be a Filipina maid or a Syrian carpenter. They all have friends and relatives, and communication is extremely good; they learn very quickly and they also learn the way round the system. I would not be too bothered about that. We need a system that is sensible, firm and fair, and they will either realise that that is the case or realise that it is not.
Gavin Newlands
Q 114 I just want to ask for a quick clarification of an earlier answer to the Minister, in which you used the phrase “these people”. To be clear, can you define “these people” for the Committee?
Lord Green of Deddington: I am not sure what you are referring to.
Gavin Newlands
At the start of an answer to the Minister, you used the phrase “these people”.
Lord Green of Deddington: I do not know which answer you are referring to. Can you be a bit more specific?
Gavin Newlands
You might have been referring to asylum seekers or to migrants, but you gave the answer.
Lord Green of Deddington: I do not understand the question, I am afraid.
Gavin Newlands
Q 115 My main question is, to what extent do you consider that the Bill carries the risk of encouraging everyday discrimination against people who do not appear to be British?
Lord Green of Deddington: Could you say that a bit louder, please?
Gavin Newlands
To what extent do you consider that the Bill carries the risk of encouraging everyday discrimination against people who do not appear to be British?
Lord Green of Deddington: What did he say?
The Chair
Lord Green, are you having difficulty with the sound?
Lord Green of Deddington: I am, rather, yes—and, if I may say so, that slightly different accent. I did not understand the question, I am afraid.
Gavin Newlands
Do you think this Bill carries a risk that it will encourage everyday discrimination against people who do not appear to be British?
Lord Green of Deddington: Does the Bill carry the risk? Ah, sorry, yes, I understand. Some aspects of it might—you are probably thinking of the tenancy provisions. There is that possibility and it would be foolish to deny it, but you have to balance that against the absolute scandal of beds in sheds and the exploitation of people—immigrants usually, but not always—by ruthless landlords. There are tens of thousands of beds in sheds, probably more, and appalling conditions. That has to be tackled. Yes, there is a downside, as there is to any kind of change of this kind, but let us keep our eye on the ball. There is a scandal going on in relation to the housing of many people and that needs to be tackled.
Sarah Champion
Q 139 Mr Smith and Mr Lambert, I was surprised by how small the sample size was in the west midlands pilot results. Of the 67 respondents who are tenants, 60 are students. My assumption is that students are much more likely to have passports and letters of authority from their institutions. Do you believe that this is a skewed sample?
Richard Lambert: The evaluation period could have been better. It could have been a lot longer. We would have said, ideally, a year to 18 months because most tenancies last more than six months. In order to understand how this process works, you have to give it that length of time so you can see tenancies coming to an end, and limited right to remain coming to an end and you can see how that renews. It also took place at what is probably the slowest time of the year so, inevitably, there were not going to be a lot of tenancies turning over. Then there were the difficulties of contacting the population. It is interesting that in a university area, most responses to the request for tenant respondents came from students who are possibly more likely to be active in some of the social issues and more aware of these things going on.
David Smith: Students are also, to a large extent, exempt from checks. Students are nominated into accommodation by their educational institutions so any student in a hall of residence is effectively exempt from checks anyway. Given that areas around Dudley and West Bromwich are not substantial student areas—parts of my family come from the area—it is a shame that there was such a high student sample. I would have liked to have seen a sample that more adequately represented a wider spectrum of social demographic groups. We remain concerned about the effects, not so much on, for example, Members of Parliament renting homes, but on people in the lower social demographics who increasingly are coming into the private rented sector, will have difficulty with this legislation and are often driven into the arms of less salubrious landlords.
Gavin Newlands
Q 140 I know from your written evidence that you call for a clearly understood and properly resourced helpline for landlords. Will you share your members’ experiences of the helpline during the pilot? A recent written answer from the Minister, for which I am very grateful, revealed that there were two full-time equivalent staff for the helpline. Was that sufficient for your members?
David Smith: We have not had any particular feedback. We have certainly had calls to our member helpline from members. I do not know whether that means that they were not happy with what they got. We are concerned about whether the helpline will continue to be resourced as a helpline once we are talking about all of England. That is not clear yet—I am looking at the Minister to see whether he nods or shakes his head. I can tell you that we run a member helpline and that more than two people staff it. It is that simple. Two people will not be enough to cover all of England, but I am not clear about the plans for widening the helpline.
If the helpline is not adequately staffed, there is little point in having it, I suspect. We would like more online resource. I note that, in the evaluation—the guide that was published today—the Government have highlighted the European PRADO database, but it covers only EU documents, not EEA documents. My members are not familiar with Liechtenstein passports, not that they would necessarily see a great many of those. However, many members are likely to believe that countries such as Ukraine are in the EEA, which they are not. We are therefore concerned about people both ignoring countries of which they should take account, and thinking that countries that they have seen in the news recently, which are around the fringes of the EU, must be in the EU.
We are also concerned about the potential for forgery that is opened up on list B. Several documents on there are potentially prone to forgery with a laser printer and we are very worried about the risk our members run of prosecution for not being the most adept spotters of forgeries. Immigration officers frequently examine passport documents and they are highly trained in that. My members are not equipped with UV scanning lights or skilled watermark detection systems, and I am afraid that many of them would not know a watermark if you asked them about it anyway. I am therefore concerned about how they will detect the more sophisticated forgeries, and what the break point is for what they should detect. I am not worried about sellotape.
Craig Whittaker
Q 161 So the new powers in the Bill, around the landlord checks, for example—will they enhance that role as well?
Stephen Gabriel: That is right, yes.
Gavin Newlands
Q 162 Mr Gabriel, the Bill removes support for a majority of failed asylum seekers. Do you have concerns that through this aspect of the Bill, the Government are in effect devolving to local government responsibility for the support of refused asylum-seeking families through its responsibility to accommodate children? At this time of great restraint in local government funding, do you feel that this is an area that might be looked at again?
Stephen Gabriel: It is a challenge. One of my concerns in Sandwell is that we are part of the West Midlands strategic migration partnership and there is the need for local authorities to have parity in numbers in the families whom they are supporting. Yes, in Sandwell our percentage is higher than in some of the other local authorities in the area, so if the Home Office stops supporting those families, that will potentially have a negative impact on the local authority. That could be a challenge for the local authority.
The Chair
Q 163 We have approximately seven minutes. Does anyone else want to ask a question?
Immigration Bill
Gavin Newlands Excerpts(8 years, 6 months ago)
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Gavin Newlands (Paisley and Renfrewshire North) (SNP)
I am grateful for the opportunity to take part in the debate and to speak against what, in my book, is one of the more heinous Bills introduced by this Tory Government, or for that matter by any other Government.
I am proud to make the case for immigration and to remind our international community that they are valued and that we appreciate their contribution to our communities. I know that Conservative Members like to consider issues purely on economic terms, and I could talk at length about the positive economic impact that immigration has on the UK economy. However, the biggest impact that our international community has on the UK cannot be measured purely in terms of economic growth or statistics; the most important impact made by our foreign-born friends can be witnessed in our communities each and every day.
During my research into the impact of the Bill, I met members of the Renfrewshire Effort to Empower Minorities, or REEM. It is a fantastic example of a group of people who are rooted in our community, who serve their members by helping to provide advice and training, and who organise a number of events throughout the year to help to integrate their members with the local population. Such groups internationalise our towns and cities. They help to achieve social cohesion, and they diversify our villages, towns and cities. That is why it depresses me to hear so many Tory MPs lining up to spout rhetoric about the allegedly devastating impact that immigration has on our country.
The problem for the UK Government is that, instead of developing evidence-based policy, they are attempting to create policy that panders to UKIP sympathisers in their own party. The Bill sends a message that the UK finds it an inconvenience that anyone would want to come and work here, and that the British Government want to drive a wedge between Britain and the rest of the world. Those are not my words but those of one of my constituents who is fed up with the deeply damaging and divisive Tory rhetoric, and who has decided to move away from the UK as he knows when he is not wanted.
Let me briefly touch on a number of aspects of the Bill and explain how they will have a significant impact on foreign residents, regardless of whether they are living here illegally or not. The Immigration Minister states that illegal immigration denies work to UK citizens, but one consequence of this Bill—it may be an unintended consequence—is that it will become harder for all foreign-born residents to get a job.
The Bill is targeting small businesses by shamefully using racial profiling and focusing on takeaways and off-licences. Employers will now face criminal prosecution and a five-year prison sentence if they are found to be employing someone whose right to remain has expired. Trying to ascertain someone’s immigration status can be a confusing process, and many small businesses do not have the administrative budgets to be confident enough to check the status of their foreign-born employees. It is not difficult to see that many small business owners will not risk employing someone who is foreign. That is bad for business as they will lose out on recruiting a skilled worker, and it will also be a significant barrier for foreign-born workers who will find it more difficult to get a job.
Not only will members of our international community find it difficult to get a job, but the Bill will also make it harder for them to have a roof over their head. The right to rent provision will encourage discrimination, promote the worst possible practice in housing management and make it harder for members of our international community to find a home.
Alan Brown (Kilmarnock and Loudoun) (SNP)
My hon. Friend is right to say that the Bill could cause discrimination. We have already heard that landlords will be less likely to rent houses to citizens without a British passport. Does he agree that that will cause further pressure on the housing sector? Combine that with the right to buy and the force to sell legislation, and the Government’s rush to legislate in a scattergun approach will cause further problems for housing, as well as immigration.
Gavin Newlands
I wholeheartedly agree. The Bill will create a situation whereby landlords will have to be 100% sure that no illegal migrants are living in their property. Failure to abide by this could result in the landlord facing a fine of £3,000 and a jail sentence of five years. The vast majority of our landlords will not be qualified, or have the time, to distinguish between a legal and an illegal migrant.
Mike Wood (Dudley South) (Con)
Surely the hon. Gentleman recognises that that is exactly why landlords can just refer the issue. The Home Office will then, I understand, rule on it within 48 hours.
Gavin Newlands
I think perhaps the hon. Gentleman has not heard about the difficulties faced by the helplines. More resources are required.
To protect themselves, many landlords will operate a blanket approach and will not take the risk of accepting any tenant who was born overseas or who has a foreign-sounding name. The Bill will also make it easier for landlords to evict tenants who are found to be living here illegally. They will be able to do that without a court order. We should be concerned that that sort of practice could be carried over to other tenants who are living here legally. We do not have to guess, fear or anticipate the problems that the Bill will create for tenants. The Government are, shamefully, not willing to publish their review of the west midlands pilot before pushing ahead with the Bill, but reports from it suggest that the right to rent policy encourages discrimination towards migrant groups.
Part 4 of the Bill is particularly odious. We should be reminded that the immigration appeal route exists for a reason: to correct a wrongful decision. The Immigration Act 2014 drastically reduced the number of appeals available, but the Bill removes them entirely for some people. The “deport first, appeal later” policy that was included in the previous Act led to 230 foreign nationals being deported in the first year of its being implemented. I ask the Immigration Minister to make clear, in his closing remarks, how many of the 230 completed the appeal process.
The Bill will create drastic consequences for all members of our migrant community and it sends the wrong message to the international community about what kind of country we are. The Bill will turn communities against one another, extending the powers of the state to unparalleled levels and creating a big brother society where ordinary members of the public will be expected to act as the UK Government’s very own immigration agents.
In short, the Bill is about pandering to the UK Independence party and the right-wing element of the Conservative party. It is ill-considered, deeply divisive and lacking in compassion and any human decency. It will inevitably lead to increased racism. If the Bill is passed it will not be in my name, the Scottish National party’s name or Scotland’s name. I urge the Government to reconsider.
Oral Answers to Questions
Gavin Newlands Excerpts(8 years, 6 months ago)
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Karen Bradley
I assure my hon. Friend that we are doing nothing in legislation that will prevent the right to believe, and the right to practise and preach. What we are doing is focusing on people who seek to use religious texts as an excuse to promote hatred and extremism. That is what we want to stop.
Gavin Newlands (Paisley and Renfrewshire North) (SNP)
Does the Minister agree that the Secretary of State’s speech to the Conservative party conference could itself be defined as hate speech, and that it did nothing for her bid for the leadership of the Conservative party and everything for a potential bid for the leadership of UKIP?
Refugee Crisis in Europe
Gavin Newlands Excerpts(8 years, 8 months ago)
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Gavin Newlands (Paisley and Renfrewshire North) (SNP)
I very much welcome the opportunity to make a contribution to this extremely important debate on an issue that has galvanised support right across the political spectrum. Rarely in my lifetime have I seen so many ordinary members of the public not happy with just donating money to a financial appeal, but desperate to do something themselves: to organise, to collect, to donate —indeed, to drive hundreds of miles to get to those in need.
I am sure this is common across the UK, but in Renfrewshire I have been inspired by a number of individuals and groups who were sick of waiting for their Government to show leadership and decided to stand up themselves. Over the weekend, I contacted a number of those groups to organise a meeting with a view to bringing them together to work more efficiently. I am pleased to say that Renfrewshire Aid was born out of that meeting and is now operating out of two substantial hubs, in Gallowhill and in the students association of the University of the West of Scotland in Paisley. The actions of those individuals and groups show how great and welcoming our country is. They are showing this Government how they should be acting. They are showing them that when someone is crying out for our help, the answer is not to close our eyes, put our heads down or walk the other way. The answer is to extend the hand of compassion and friendship and to help those who badly need our help.
However, this is not the first time that Paisley has come to the aid of refugees. During the first world war, Paisley played host to hundreds of Belgian refugees. Indeed, the UK took in an estimated quarter of a million, including 16,000 in a single day through Folkestone in October 1914. Sixteen thousand in a day rather highlights the complete inadequacy of 20,000 over five years. The Government’s capacity for compassion seems a little smaller 100 years on.
This absolutely should not be a party political issue. It is an issue on which parties should unite in common cause and demonstrate that such issues should be above the fray. That is certainly true at the local level, where members of many political parties and those belonging to none are coming together to help those affected. However, having listened to the Prime Minister’s statement yesterday, when he attempted to muddy the waters and conflate the refugee crisis with counter-terrorism, I am not entirely sure that he shares that same ethos of solidarity. The two issues that were brought up yesterday are two of the most important topics that can be brought to this Chamber. These topics deserve separate statements and debate.
Last week I wrote letters to my local Labour council leader and to the Prime Minister. It should be noted that I received a very positive reply from the council leader, who would like to do more, but requires the funds to be able to do so. I urge the Government to financially support local authorities such as mine so that they are able to play their full part in the crisis. I still await a reply from the Prime Minister. In my letter to him, I urged him to show true leadership and accept the UK’s moral responsibility to do considerably more. After yesterday’s statement, it is clear that he is shirking that responsibility.
However, it is not only the Prime Minister’s failure or unwillingness to act that disappoints me about the way he has responded—or, more appropriately, not responded —but the language that he has used to describe those fleeing persecution or violence. Let me be clear: these are not economic migrants who, as some on the Government Benches would have us think, want to come to our country to live a life of luxury on benefits; they are human beings. They are mums, dads, grans, uncles and, yes, sons and daughters too.
Gavin Newlands
No, I am afraid I have very little time.
The people affected by this humanitarian crisis are just attempting to do what we would all do in the same situation: protect their families from harm. The families and individuals caught up in the crisis are willing to leave their homes and travel thousands of miles in the worse circumstances possible to move to a new country. These are people who are willing to go through hell and high water to protect their children and flee the violence that awaits them back home. To suggest that these people are “economic migrants” is nothing short of appalling, and it shows how out of touch some Conservative Members actually are.
It saddens me to say that the Prime Minister seems uninterested, unwilling or just plain unable to act in the way that the country demands. In the biggest mass movement of people in the world for over 70 years, future generations will judge how we respond to this escalating crisis. The Prime Minister is currently facing a guilty verdict, but he has time to change course and do what is right—I urge him to do so.