Nagorno-Karabakh

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Tuesday 17th January 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord McInnes of Kilwinning]

To ask His Majesty’s Government what representations they have made to the government of Azerbaijan regarding the blocking of the Lachin Corridor between Armenia and Artsakh/Nagorno-Karabakh, and the consequences for the humanitarian situation in that region.

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, officials, including our ambassador in Baku, have engaged with the highest levels of the Azerbaijani Government, including the presidential Administration, to urge the immediate reopening of the Lachin corridor. At the Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe—including this morning—and at the United Nations Security Council, we have been categorically clear that the continued closure of the corridor risks a significant humanitarian crisis in the region, and access must be restored.

[Lord McInnes of Kilwinning (Con)]

My Lords, I thank my noble friend for his Answer. What assessment have His Majesty’s Government made of the humanitarian effect of the blockade? In addition, in relation to Article II(c) of the genocide convention,

“Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part”,


what assessment has been made of the blockade?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I reassure my noble friend that the United Kingdom Government take their commitments under the genocide convention seriously. Where there is evidence that thresholds have been met, we will take appropriate action. I am aware that during and after the 2020 conflict, there were widespread reports of atrocities. In September 2022, there was widespread media reporting of crimes that may amount to grave breaches of the Geneva convention. The UK Government have raised our concerns directly with the Azerbaijani Government and will continue to do so. On the humanitarian point, we are working closely with partners. Indeed, this morning again I asked for access, which is currently being attained by various organisations, including the ICRC. We will follow up with direct conversations in Geneva as well.

[Baroness Cox (CB)]

My Lords, my small charity, the Humanitarian Aid Relief Trust, supports a rehabilitation centre in Karabakh. I recently spoke to the director, who said that the situation is dire: the shops are empty and there are shortages of food, medical supplies, diapers—causing great problems for people with incontinence—and fuel for transporting patients. Schools are closing because there is no food, and Azerbaijan has cut off gas, internet supply and power, causing a risk of vulnerable people dying from hypothermia. Families cannot travel, so hundreds of children are separated from their parents. The situation is so serious that some fear genocide. I therefore ask the Minister: how long will the UK Government continue to allow Azerbaijan to inflict such horrendous suffering? Will they fulfil those genocide prevention responsibilities by working with the UN Security Council to require the immediate lifting of the blockade and/or launching humanitarian aid airlifts?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I commend the noble Baroness for her continued campaign in this regard. I am aware that both the noble Baroness and the noble Lord, Lord Alton, have written recently about this situation, particularly concerning the institutions which the noble Baroness mentioned, such as schools. As I have alluded to already, we are working closely with international agencies, including the ICRC, to get their direct impact assessment of the closure. The Government will remain a significant donor in this respect. I have also alluded to the importance we attach to our obligations and commitments under the genocide convention. We will continue to work closely with our UN partners at the Security Council, as we did in December.

[Lord Browne of Ladyton (Lab)]

My Lords, what are the Government doing to highlight the ambiguous role played by the 2,000 Russian peacekeeping forces in the region? How are they ensuring that, at the same time, Baku does not use the presence of those forces to conceal its own intentions and actions in respect of the closure of the corridor?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, of course we are aware of the presence of regional actors, including Russia, as the noble Lord has articulated. Following Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, we have currently suspended all engagement with the Russian authorities, except on a very limited number of issues. Their continued presence should be to keep the peace, as was intended, and not to exacerbate the situation. However, I regret that I do not believe that to be the case. We will continue to work using all good offices, particularly our direct contacts. Indeed, I met with the Armenian Foreign Minister in December to reassure him of our good offices in trying to reach a direct resolution to this long-standing dispute and conflict.

[Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)]

My Lords, does not the present situation with this whole miserable, unending war, which has been going on since 1988, indicate how possibly unwise or unfortunate the Armenians were to put their trust in Russia? Russia’s influence has weakened, and it is distracted by losing the battle in Ukraine. That has made it a feeble supporter in securing the position of Armenian citizens in Nagorno-Karabakh.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, in the light of the prevailing situation in Russia’s war on Ukraine, I am sure that many countries are now reconsidering their alliances with Russia and the support that they gain from it. One hopes that we will see greater stability across the European continent and in other conflicts around the world. There is a simple solution. Russia can step up to the mark, fulfil its international obligations and act as a peacemaker in conflicts around the world rather than making them worse.

[Lord Bruce of Bennachie (LD)]

My Lords, it is clear that this situation needs to be resolved urgently, not least to try to ensure a long-term settlement between Azerbaijan and Armenia. What steps are the Government taking to promote negotiations which will both protect the territorial integrity of Azerbaijan and the rights of the Armenian citizens within Karabakh? Can the Government indicate that they are taking active measures to try to ensure a peace settlement and a long-term resolution, rather than see this long-standing conflict flare up again and again?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I agree with the noble Lord. First and foremost, we do not believe that there can be a military settlement to this particular conflict—I am sure that the noble Lord agrees with me. It has to be negotiated. That is why the UK Government are supporting the efforts of the OSCE—there was a meeting there this morning—the EU and other partners to secure stability and security for the region. As I have alluded to already, we are engaging directly with both the Azerbaijanis and the Armenians. Indeed, my colleague, my honourable friend the Minister for Europe, will be seeking meetings either this week or next with the Foreign Ministers of both countries.

[Lord Darzi of Denham (Non-Afl)]

My Lords, as we have heard, the ongoing blockade of the Lachin corridor is causing a humanitarian crisis which has been widely condemned but to no discernible effect. Food is being rationed in Nagorno-Karabakh, schools are closed because of shortages and families have been separated. Does the Minister agree that it is time for the international community and the Government to step up the pressure on Azerbaijan by imposing sanctions over and above existing embargoes against the supply of arms?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I welcome the noble Lord’s deep insight into this particular situation. I agree with him on the importance of seeking resolution and working with international partners. I have spoken in previous responses about the importance of negotiation. Conflict is not the solution. We will exercise sanctions across the board where we feel they will have a direct impact on a particular country, organisation or individual, but I cannot speculate as to any future sanctions which we may adopt.

[Lord Alton of Liverpool (CB)]

My Lords, the Minister will have seen what Samantha Power of USAID has said about the implications of the blocking of the Lachin corridor, where she said a “humanitarian catastrophe” was unfolding. What discussions are we having with Samantha Power and our allies to ensure that medicine, food and energy, as described by my noble friend Lady Cox, are reaching the 130,000 Armenians who are blocked off in Nagorno-Karabakh? Given the answer that the Minister gave me in December to a Question about the joint analysis of conflict and stability—the JACS assessment—by his own department, which was completed in early 2022, will he agree to place a copy of that assessment in the Library of your Lordships’ House so that we can know whether the Government really are honouring the obligations under the genocide convention that he referred to in answer to the Question from his noble friend Lord McInnes?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

The noble Lord will know, on the opinion that he referred to—the JACS—that it is not government policy; we do not put that in the public domain. However, I can say to the noble Lord, as I have said to him during other debates and Questions that we have had on this issue, that I can offer him a meeting, including with our officials, to share the assessment of the situation. On his earlier point about working with the United States and other partners, we are looking for a direct response from the ICRC. Again, I have asked our ambassador in Geneva to engage directly with the ICRC to give a full assessment, and I shall provide further details to the noble Lord and place a copy of that letter in the Library.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, can I push the Minister a bit more on Russian involvement, particularly on its so-called peacekeeping role? He mentioned the fact that he is making clear the cost of alliances with Russia. Can he tell us a bit more about how we are working with our allies to expose its role, particularly with regard to the corridor that we have been discussing?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, Russia is doing a pretty good job of exposing its lack of activity to bring the two sides together. What is demonstrably clear to all partners, as well as to others who have aligned themselves with Russia within the European or the global context, is that Russia is not a reliable partner. It is not seeking peace; it was there to provide stability and security but its action in Ukraine has demonstrably shown what its intention is. However, we believe that there is a solution to be found. There are existing structures such as the OSCE and the UN and with our partners in the EU so that we can collaborate and work together to ensure, first and foremost, as we heard from the noble Baroness, Lady Cox, and the noble Lord, Lord Alton, that humanitarian access is increased, as it needs to be—and that we find a long-standing solution to this conflict, which has gone on for far too long.

United Nations Security Council

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Tuesday 17th January 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns (Con)]

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper and, in so doing, remind the House of my unpaid interest as chair of the United Nations Association of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, the United Kingdom Government support UN Security Council reform. We support an expansion in the council membership, with new permanent seats for India, Germany, Japan and Brazil, and permanent African representation. We support the expansion of the non-permanent membership to take the total membership to the mid-20s. We also support responsible use of the veto. We participate in regular discussions on UN Security Council reform at the UN, including through the General Assembly-mandated intergovernmental negotiations on this very issue.

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns (Con)]

My Lords, on this very date 77 years ago, the United Nations Security Council met for the first time, here in London. There has been much talk of reform and I very much welcome my noble friend’s words today, but nothing much seems to happen on reform of the powers and the membership. It is a different world from 77 years ago. My noble friend referred to the intergovernmental negotiations. What text-based information have we already tabled, in the light of our ambassador to the UN having said in November that this would be the best way of moving forward, getting away from making promises and good statements, and getting the job done? When my noble friend was there in December, and when my honourable friend Minister Rutley was there just last week, what discussions did they have on this matter of a text-based way forward?

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, my noble friend speaks from experience and with insight and expertise. She is right about having text-based discussions, but she will also be aware of the challenges of any talk of UN security reform when presented. When I was at the UN in December, we did not engage specifically on this issue. We have a long-standing commitment to reform, but there are challenges, not least posed by the current permanent five members, which prevent progressive reforms taking place at pace. However, there is a real recognition that the extension of the veto challenge by the General Assembly and our respect for the views of the General Assembly are a reflection of a move in the right direction.

[Lord Morris of Aberavon (Lab)]

My Lords, does the Minister agree that the prospects for reform, however desirable that may be, are near hopeless? From time to time, and with deep regret, Governments of which I was a member had to act without the approval of the Security Council, as in the case of Kosovo, to avoid a humanitarian disaster, or nothing would have happened.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I agree with the noble and learned Lord: there are challenges posed, and I have already alluded to them. The use of the veto often prevents specific action being taken. That is why the United Kingdom is one of the longest-standing members not exercising the veto—exercising that really was a matter of last resort. Of course, the challenge remains to ensure that the veto is used sensitively, but sometimes there are occasions where we need to act decisively to prevent humanitarian disasters taking place.

[Lord Alton of Liverpool (CB)]

My Lords, on the subject of the veto, does the Minister recall that, in 2013, France came forward with a proposal not to abolish but to pragmatically reform the power of veto so that it could not be used where there were allegations of crimes against humanity, the use of genocide or war crimes? That was in the wake of what had happened in Syria. Is not his noble friend Lady Anelay therefore right that we need to revisit some of these questions, not least in the aftermath of war crimes in Ukraine, and what has happened in Tigray, and in Xinjiang to Uighur Muslims? Use of the veto to prevent investigation upholding the genocide convention or the Rome statute is one of the most shameful things and brings the Security Council into disrepute. Should we not be laying resolutions along with the French in the General Assembly and the Human Rights Council, at least paving the way for this kind of practical reform?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, as I said to my noble friend, I agree that it is important that we see reform. That is why, for example, the United Kingdom has supported the accountability mechanism that was put forward, known as the Liechtenstein initiative, which is all about ensuring that, when the veto is exercised, there is accountability for the country that has done so. This now enables the General Assembly to hold vetoing members to account. I would add, once again, that the challenge and tragedy is, as we have seen in recent events in Ukraine, that the egregious abuse of that vetoing right is very much evident and it has been used extensively by Russia.

[Lord Purvis of Tweed (LD)]

My Lords, I support the Minister’s comments seeking a permanent place on the Security Council for an African nation. That now echoes the Biden Administration’s sub-Saharan Africa strategy and the position of the Canadian Liberal Government, but it should go further, seeking much stronger representation of African nations on the World Bank, the IMF and all the UN agencies. Following the Question asked by the noble Baroness, Lady Anelay, what is the Government’s estimate of a timeframe for UN Security Council reform when Africa is likely to see permanent representation? Western powers simply stating their desire without a road map for reform arguably does more damage than staying silent.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I agree with the noble Lord: we have seen emerging powers around the world. As my noble friend said in her supplementary question, the world has changed from the time when the UN Security Council was first established and from the time it was reformed and extended. The current membership reflects what happened post the Second World War. The issue of Africa and Africa’s representation is very clear. We welcome the fact that we have seen an increasing number of individuals from African countries emerging to senior leadership positions within the United Nations, but the real challenge is that the people who will ultimately give the green light to fundamental reform of the UN Security Council are its permanent members. At the moment, the challenge is not just reform; it is far more general than that, and specific to many of the conflicts we are facing. I cannot give a timeline, but at the moment I do not think it will be any time soon.

[Lord Trefgarne (Con)]

My Lords, does my noble friend recall Resolution 502 of the Security Council, which authorised the Falklands operation, despite the fact that the Soviet Union, as it then was, could immediately have vetoed it, but did not?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, one thing I have learned as Minister for the United Nations and from our membership of the UN Security Council is that it is important to build support within the UN and the wider framework of the UN family. That allows us, when an egregious abuse takes place, particularly of sovereignty—as we are seeing now in Ukraine and as we saw in the invasion of the Falklands —to come together as a global community, condemn it and act.

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock (Lab Co-op)]

My Lords, does the Minister agree that, if Scotland became independent and the United Kingdom ceased to exist, our membership of the Security Council might be open to question? Is that not why President Putin seeks to break up Britain?

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I do not want to contemplate a day when there is any break-up of the United Kingdom, and that is why we must stay united in ensuring that our United Kingdom—these four nations—is absolutely at one. The importance of the United Kingdom’s position on the world stage through our membership of the P5 and active membership of NATO and other multilateral organisations demonstrates that strength. We are better and stronger together.

[Baroness Coussins (CB)]

My Lords, can the Minister update the House on any progress there has been towards achieving a Security Council resolution on the protection of civilian interpreters working in conflict zones along the same lines as the resolution for the protection of journalists?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, first, I commend the noble Baroness on her long-standing campaigning in this regard. I assure her that we continue to campaign on the very basis that she has illustrated. It is important that, as we stand up for media freedom, we also recognise the important role that translators and interpreters play.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, the penholder system of the Security Council gives the UK and other permanent members quite significant responsibilities to draft outcomes of documents. Does the Minister agree that it is important to involve non- permanent members in this process? If so, will the Government support extending the principle of co-penholders, or deputy pen-holders, so that we engage others within the work of the Security Council? I commend the Minister on how we focused on the General Assembly and achieved far more than simply worrying about Security Council reform.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, the noble Lord is right: when we want to see the global community moving together, it is not the view of five countries that should prevail but those of the wider membership of the Security Council. That is why we work very closely together. For example, I host an annual meeting of outgoing and new members of the Security Council to establish their priorities, the current penholding situation and our current priorities, so that we can share objectives and ensure buy-in and support for their objectives as well as our own. We will continue to work in that co-operative way, strengthening further the work of the General Assembly.

Iran: Women’s Rights

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Wednesday 21st December 2022 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Taylor of Stevenage]

To ask His Majesty’s Government what steps they are taking to support women in Iran fighting for basic human rights; and what representations they have made to the government of that country in relation to mass arrests of those demonstrating for such rights.

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, the bravery shown by the women of Iran is nothing short of remarkable. This Government stand with them as they demand a better future. We have already worked with partners to remove Iran from the United Nations Commission on the Status of Women on 14 December. We have helped to secure a Human Rights Council resolution to investigate the crackdown on protestors on 24 November, and we have announced three rounds of sanctions since October on individuals involved in the arrest, detention and sentencing of protestors, most recently on 9 December. Our position is absolutely clear: we will continue to hold the Iranian Government to account for their continued repression of women and girls and for the shocking violence that they have inflicted on their own citizens and people.

[Baroness Taylor of Stevenage (Lab)]

My Lords, I am grateful to the Minister for his Answer. Since the tragic death of Mahsa Amini, atrocities in Iran continue, as we all know. I agree with the Minister that the courage of our Iranian sisters continues to call us to action. On Monday, Female Voice of Iran visited us in Parliament to lobby for further sanctions against Iran, for the proscription of the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps as a terror organisation, and for the UK to join France, Germany and Canada in supporting the Iranian freedom movement. The Universal Declaration of Human Rights, to which Iran is a signatory, states that all human beings—not just men—

“are born free and equal in dignity and rights”.

It guarantees freedom of expression and peaceful assembly. What are the UK Government going to do further to ensure that Iran upholds these rights in current protests?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I welcome both the noble Baroness’s question and her engagement directly with the FCDO. I look forward to further engagement on this and other issues. I assure her that we continue to—I cannot speculate on future sanctions but, as I indicated earlier, there have been three tranches from October to December. We are also working with our key international partners. It is of course important that, ultimately, the future destiny of Iran is decided by its own citizens and people. What is very clear, with every passing day—every passing hour—is that the legitimacy of the current Government is being lost. They are suppressing their own citizens; that has to stop—and stop now.

[Lord Alton of Liverpool (CB)]

My Lords, the jailing this week in the notorious Evin prison of the courageous Iranian actress Taraneh Alidoosti underlined the insatiable appetite of the theocratic regime for imprisonment, gender-based violence, torture, enforced disappearance, arbitrary arrest and execution. Does not this amount to crimes against humanity? At this critical time, what can the noble Lord tell us about the continuation of the BBC Persian radio service following warnings this week from Ken McCallum, the head of MI5, about the targeting of individuals in the United Kingdom who have criticised the state or supported the protests? Will he ensure the protection of pro-democracy Iranians in the United Kingdom and that it is given new urgency?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, the noble Lord raises a number of important points. Of course, on the key point of the safety and security of people who are in the United Kingdom, including institutions and organisations, the Government are working directly with our own security and police to ensure that safety and security are guaranteed. If there are specific issues that are raised directly with the noble Lord on ensuring the safety and security of an individual or organisation, I would urge him to raise it with me directly.

[Baroness Warsi (Con)]

My Lords, what specific engagement have we had with British Iranians who, despite the lockdown on social media and communications, have direct links with family and friends in Iran and are therefore receiving updates in a way that perhaps even the Government are not? Will my noble friend consider discussing with his colleagues from the Home Office the potential for a legal route to asylum for those suffering the most extreme violence and persecution, especially those for whom people in the United Kingdom would be prepared to open up their homes?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, my noble friend raises two very important points. Of course, we are looking to engage directly with communities and representatives here who represent Iranian interests, including NGOs. Again, as I said to the noble Lord, Lord Alton, I would welcome any recommendations on specifics that my noble friend has from her own insight and experience. Our focus at the FCDO has been on international action. I was myself at the UN—I returned on Friday—specifically in relation to the work that we were doing on the CSW. It was very clear there that there was no support for Iran from the majority of countries; there were abstentions and only a handful of countries voted to keep Iran on. On the second point, we have always been a country that has provided safe refuge and sanctuary for those fleeing persecution. Again, safe routes and safe passages for such sanctuary is clearly the Government’s intent.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, I very much welcome the Government’s efforts at the United Nations, particularly at ECOSOC and its Commission on the Status of Women. I know that we are working with allies and amplifying the voices of international communities, but one thing that I have raised with the Minister before is the important question of how we are supporting those voices of civil society—particularly faith groups—who can condemn this action, so that it is not just simply seen as a western response but a community response to defend women’s rights?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

I totally agree with the noble Lord and I assure him that we are talking directly both with individuals and with organisations. Indeed, I have asked to meet with senior leaders of different faith groups here, particularly those who have representation in Iran. It is important that the Iranian Government understand very clearly that none of the approaches that they have adopted currently—whether on the JCPOA, their support for drones in Ukraine or the continued suppression of their own citizens—opens up any avenue for effective and constructive discussion. I continue to engage with different groups and I think that faith groups, particularly those which look towards or operate in Iran, have an important role to play.

[Lord Purvis of Tweed (LD)]

My Lords, I support strongly the Minister’s diplomatic work at the UN that he has just referred to. However, there have been concerns about the ending of programmes that support women in the political, civic and human rights space. That concern was tempered in February when the noble Lord, Lord Goldsmith, replied to me, saying that

“the Foreign Secretary has been clear that we are restoring funding to women and girls.”—[Official Report, 28/2/22; col. 541.]

In November, the Minister was unable to confirm to me that that was the case. Through no fault of his own, the noble Viscount, Lord Younger, was not able to clarify that point in our debate on development last week. Can the Minister be very clear: is that promise—made to me in this Chamber—that funding for women and girls is being restored being upheld or will the noble Lord, Lord Goldsmith, have to come back to this Chamber to correct the record?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, the Government have been clear on this. There are some final discussions to take place—which is why my noble friend Lord Younger, or indeed I, was not clear on that—but, once these figures are finalised, we will of course share them with your Lordships’ House. On the point about my noble friend Lord Goldsmith, he was very clear about the importance that we attach to girls’ education, women’s rights and humanitarian support; at a time of great challenge to the ODA budget, they will remain key priorities for His Majesty’s Government.

[Lord Austin of Dudley (Non-Afl)]

My Lords, this is a brutal and corrupt dictatorship that terrorises its people, slaughters protesters, enslaves women, hangs gay men from cranes, sponsors terrorism around the region and here in Europe and is developing nuclear weapons to attack Israel. Can the Minister tell us why the Government have not already proscribed the IRGC? I urge the Minister and the Government to impose much tougher sanctions on the dictatorship’s leadership, so that we can bring this brutal regime to its knees and free the poor people of Iran.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I totally agree with the noble Lord’s opening remarks. It is for all those reasons that we have taken a very tough stance on sanctions, including on individuals and the organisation of the IRGC since 2019. The noble Lord knows that the issue of proscription is something that I cannot speculate on, but I can assure him that both I and my noble friend on the Front Bench for the Home Office—both departments—are very seized and aware of the strong sentiments that both Houses, parliamentarians and indeed the public hold on this issue.

[Lord Singh of Wimbledon (CB)]

My Lords, we all applaud the brave women and men fighting for the rights of women in Iran against an autocratic regime that sees women as lesser beings with, as a former Ayatollah put it, only half the brain size of a man. While the expulsion of Iran from a UN committee on women is welcome, does the Minister agree that a more powerful condemnation would come from Muslim leaders stating that the behaviour of the Iranian regime is rooted in perverse and dated culture and has nothing to do with the ethical teachings of Islam?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I agree with the noble Lord. While I am not a Muslim leader, I am a Minister who happens to be Muslim and I totally and utterly condemn the suppression of women, not just in Iran but anywhere in the world. Women have a pivotal role to play in any society in any country. The evidence is there: where women play a central and pivotal role, societies prosper and countries continue to progress. Iran needs to change its direction now, not just because of what it is doing to its citizens but because its own religion that it claims to follow tells it to do just that.

Chinese Consul General: Attack on Protesters in Manchester

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Tuesday 20th December 2022 Lords Chamber

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, on one of the points that the noble Lord raised, at no time in our conversations with the Chinese embassy did we ask them to remove their diplomats. It was right that there was a police investigation and then, based on police advice, we asked for the immunities to be waived.

The noble Lord asked about the issue of persona non grata. He is indeed correct that it was raised in the other place. I can confirm that the consul-general and the five other staff who the police had identified have now left the UK and are no longer accredited consular staff in the UK. It is right that they are no longer here. We have been clear that the consul-general and the others would not be welcome to do any further posting here in the UK.

I take on board the strong sentiments that have been expressed in your Lordships’ House and the other place about the importance of ensuring that people who commit such actions are subject to police investigations and, if the Vienna convention is exercised, that we follow through on that and ensure that such people are not posted to the UK.

With regard to what the noble Lord said about other international partners, I myself have not directly engaged on that issue, but if there is more detail to share then I will share it with the noble Lord.

[Lord Purvis of Tweed (LD)]

My Lords, the activities of the Chinese have undermined the entire concept of diplomatic activity. However, what they have done here is overt, and we are rightly rid of them; I think I took it from the Minister that they will effectively be personae non gratae, but he was careful with his language.

That is overt activity, but I am also concerned about covert activity by what remains of the Chinese missions. I asked the noble Lord, Lord Murray of Blidworth, who is sitting on the Bench next to the noble Lord, Lord Ahmad, whether the Government intend in the National Security Bill to make covert activity by foreign intelligence services operating without the approval of the United Kingdom Government unlawful. The Minister said their activities would be prejudicial to the safety and interests of the United Kingdom but would remain lawful. Why is that the case? For such activities, those who are living in the UK should be liable to remedy under law. Why is the National Security Bill not going to clamp down on that?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I do not wish to speak to the specifics of the National Security Bill, but I will follow that up; I was not part of that exchange. I am very clear that, as we have done on this occasion, we must follow through specifically and work with police authorities. If individuals are identified then we must ensure that, as the police identify them, we ask for immunities to be waived. The Vienna Convention on Consular Relations was set up with good intent. We expect everyone who is appointed to the Court of St James and indeed diplomats up and down the country to adhere to the principle but also the spirit of that convention.

[Lord Alton of Liverpool (CB)]

My Lords, how does the Minister think the Chinese Communist Party would have reacted if the British consul in Shanghai had physically assaulted a Chinese citizen? Will he undertake to ensure that his department will reply to the letter that I sent to the Foreign Secretary asking whether the diplomats, against whom we failed to take immediate action, will be banned from the UK and our overseas UK territories and whether we are seeking compensation from the CCP for the cost of the Manchester police inquiry?

Given the decision of Tower Hamlets Council to reject the planning application for the mega-embassy on the Royal Mint site, will the Minister undertake to answer the questions that I put to him during the debate on China and human rights that was initiated by the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of St Albans, which remain unanswered, and review the CCP’s acquisition of that site?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, if the noble Lord has not yet received the letter from that debate, I shall of course follow that up. On the specific issue of the planning application, he will be aware that my right honourable colleague the Secretary of State for Levelling Up, Housing and Communities has a direct quasi-judicial obligation. The noble Lord referred to a specific planning application. At some point, that may be referred to him, so I cannot comment on it.

On the noble Lord’s earlier point, I cannot speak for the Chinese Communist Party, but I can say that I am absolutely honoured to speak for His Majesty’s Government, because our moral compass is markedly different from that of the Chinese Communist Party.

[Lord Walney (CB)]

The reprehensible actions in Manchester are part of a pattern of the Chinese Government testing the resolve of the UK and our allies through very deliberate transgressions of our legal system. Can the Minister give an update on the unofficial police stations that his colleague the Security Minister made an announcement on last month? What has been done to formally identify that they are acting in this way, and to shut them down?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I will have to follow up on the specifics, but on the noble Lord’s more general point about these so-called unofficial police stations, they have no basis in the United Kingdom and where they and such actions are identified, we shall take appropriate action to shut them down, as he said.

[Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)]

My Lords, the last question certainly deserves an answer, because this is very strange. Does the Minister appreciate and agree—I think he does—that this incident is a small part of the gigantic dilemma of our relationship with the People’s Republic of China in the coming years? Does he agree that there is a need to clarify what part the Chinese system deeply embedded in our present infrastructure should play in the future, or how we will change it? How will we deal with the fact, mentioned by the noble Lord, Lord Purvis, that our trade with China is still on an enormous scale and touches on important areas of security? Does the Minister not agree that the recent lead from the Foreign Affairs Committee of the other place—that we should make real efforts to clarify this very difficult relationship, without going to absurd lengths by trying to cancel China and so on—is a very necessary part of developing our new foreign policy in an utterly changed world?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, as we look at refreshing the integrated review, these aspects will of course be covered, but I agree with my noble friend that there are various elements of our policy on China that present an immense challenge. The actions of the consul general and other officials were, frankly, absolutely against any diplomatic action. It would ultimately have been for the police to investigate and decide, but we observed those actions and they were absolutely against any kind of sanction or action that should have been taken by any diplomat.

On the wider question of our relationship with China, my noble friend is of course right to point out that we have a trading relationship. On broader global challenges, including global health and climate change, China has an important role to play. But, as the Minister of State for Human Rights, among other things, I say that this has not prevented us from calling out China when we see an abuse, whether at home or abroad, or from leading the way in multilateral fora, including the Human Rights Council.

[The Lord Bishop of St Albans]

My Lords, as was said, this is part of a much larger testing of what we do in this country. This is also being lived out and spelled out in our university campuses, where meetings are sometimes being disrupted, people are being shouted down and freedom of speech is under threat. What advice and support are being given to our universities to ensure that these vital values are upheld in our country?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, the right reverend Prelate is of course right: such actions go totally against the traditions of our country and free debate within universities. Such situations have arisen, and we have given support to universities. I say to all noble Lords—I know that many are involved with educational institutions—that, where they identify such actions, we should be told in order to make sure that authorities take appropriate action.

Ethiopia: Peace Process

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Monday 5th December 2022 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Chakrabarti (Lab)]

Hear, hear!

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, it is good to hear the noble Baroness in such good voice. We welcome the peace agreement between the Ethiopian Government and the Tigray People’s Liberation Front to end the conflict in northern Ethiopia. The agreement makes provision for an AU-chaired committee to monitor and verify its implementation. We are ready to provide support towards implementation of the agreement and have communicated this offer to the African Union and the Ethiopian Government. We have also called on the Eritrean Government to support the agreement by withdrawing their troops from Ethiopia.

[Lord Browne of Ladyton (Lab)]

My Lords, on Friday, the Associated Press reported that Eritrean forces are continuing their killings of civilians in the Tigray region, and according to the Washington Post yesterday, “Ethiopian guards massacred scores of Tigrayan prisoners.” On 17 November, before the House of Commons Foreign Affairs Committee, US Assistant Secretary of State for African Affairs Phee committed to further sanctions on Eritrea if it does not throw its troops out, and to neither restoration of the US African Growth and Opportunity Act nor support for international loans for Ethiopia until unrestricted humanitarian aid enters Tigray and civilian detainees are released. Is the Minister able to make similar commitments today for His Majesty’s Government?

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, the noble Lord will know that I cannot give any specifics or details of sanctions; however, sanctions are part and parcel of the tools we have at our disposal. As I said in my original Answer, we wish, want and have asked the Eritreans to withdraw immediately; we will continue to do so repeatedly by working with the AU and the UN. They are an impediment to the peace process and, as we have seen from the noble Lord’s supplementary question, the continued violence being perpetrated is inexcusable. If there is more information to share in future, we will do so at the appropriate time.

[Baroness Northover (LD)]

My Lords, as the Minister attended the Preventing Sexual Violence in Conflict Initiative conference last week, could he tell us what reports are coming through on the use of rape as a weapon of war in Tigray and whether people will be held to account? Is evidence being gathered, which is necessary if perpetrators are to be held to account?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, of course I can assure the noble Baroness that we are working with key agencies, including the UN. This was a specific area that I also discussed with SRSG Patten, who heads the UN team. We have previously dispatched experts to collect evidence. On specific actions, part of the conference was about ensuring that we collate and sustain evidence so that we can successfully prosecute as and when those opportunities arise.

[Lord Boateng (Lab)]

My Lords, the Minister knows the region well, as I know that his right honourable friend the Minister for Overseas Development does, and he will therefore appreciate that wishing, wanting and asking for peace in that region is simply not going to be enough. As he has recognised and referred to, an African Union committee is charged with monitoring the process. The African Union is notoriously underresourced; its partner is the Intergovernmental Authority on Development. Will the Minister undertake to refer to that body and ask what practical assistance, by way of material resources, it needs to undertake its very difficult task?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, equally, I know that the noble Lord has detailed insight of this area and particularly this conflict. As he and I discussed only a couple of weeks ago in a very—as ever—informed debate in your Lordships’ House, there is great hope for Ethiopia. Of course, however, I take on board his practical suggestion and I assure him that, at the highest level, we will look to engage. It is not just about Eritrean forces withdrawing; they need to withdraw now.

[Baroness Jones of Moulsecoomb (GP)]

My Lords, this conflict has been going on for two years. In that time, thousands have been killed and raped, people have lost their homes and livelihoods, and they are starving. Now the World Health Organization says that it does not have access to all areas in Tigray. What are the UK Government doing about that?

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, we helped to negotiate and regain access to humanitarian corridors to various parts of the region, including parts of Tigray. However, the noble Baroness is correct: not all areas are accessible, even by UN agencies. We have been successful, and the United Kingdom has played a key part in providing humanitarian support, including specific support for those who have been impacted by gender-based violence, for those requiring specific nutrition and health support, and for water and sanitation. We are a key part of that effort, together with the United Nations.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, may I just probe a little more the issue raised by the noble Baroness, Lady Northover? At the conference, on which I congratulate the Minister, it was made clear that preventing sexual violence requires people knowing that they cannot act with impunity. That means making sure that we have the means to hold them properly to account. Gathering the evidence is one thing, but what are we doing to support the Ethiopian authorities to ensure that those people are held to account on all sides for the crimes they have committed? Are we giving them practical support?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

Yes, we are. However, I do not want to deny for a moment that the challenges are immense. We have just seen a very fragile peace agreement being reached; we need to ensure that it is sustained and strengthened, and that those who committed these crimes are held fully to account. As the noble Lord will know, we made an additional commitment of £12.5 million; part of that money will be allocated to national mechanisms in conflict-related areas, where we can help to build national accountability mechanisms and support the training of judges and prosecutors.

[Baroness Sugg (Con)]

My Lords, further to my noble friend’s comments on the dire humanitarian situation, I say that we believe there to be around 13 million people who now need humanitarian assistance because of the hostilities. Can he update me on any progress that has been made on humanitarian access since the ceasefire?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, we are providing additional access. As my noble friend will be aware, in the last 18 months alone, we have allocated nearly £90 million to support efforts, including humanitarian efforts. Existing supply routes continue to operate, but we are working with partners such as UNICEF and, in particular, the WFP. Over the last 18 months, it has provided supplementary feeding, for example, to 115,000 malnourished mothers and children in northern Ethiopia, and to 226,000 people in drought-affected communities in southern Ethiopia. When we see the scale of the humanitarian suffering, however, we see that there is so much still to be done.

[Lord Anderson of Swansea (Lab)]

My Lords, the conflict is one of famine and atrocities on both sides. What confidence does the Minister have that the laying- down of arms will not lead to the settling of scores against the people of Tigray?

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, in any conflict resolution, what is required is reconciliation. We need to focus on that. This is a very vulnerable ceasefire at the moment. We have seen hard negotiations and I pay tribute to, among others, former Kenyan President Kenyatta and former Nigerian President Obasanjo, who were central to ensuring that this agreement was reached. However, sustaining it is going to be equally difficult, and that is why, in reply to the noble Lord, Lord Boateng, I said that it is important that countries like the UK and other international partners support regional efforts to ensure that the peace agreement that has been negotiated can be sustained and strengthened.

[Lord Kamall (Con)]

My Lords, my noble friend the Minister has referred to the United Nations, the African Union and a number of other international organisations. Can he enlighten the House as to which other international organisations the Government are working with in trying to get to the heart of this problem?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, we need to focus on practical solutions, which is why, even with the United Nations, we have focused on supporting the African Union’s efforts. There could be a multitude of organisations working on the ground, but we need a focused peace. We are working with various other international agencies: UNICEF, the WFP, the Ethiopia Humanitarian Fund, the ICRC, the World Health Organization, the IOM, UNHCR—the list continues. It is important that we have a co-ordinated effort, which is best done by regional partners—namely, the African Union. Oh! I am working with musical accompaniment as well now.

[Lord Dobbs (Con)]

My Lords, I apologise for that interruption by my phone. I never cease to be encouraged by the ambition of Members of this House to have an impact in parts of the world where, frankly, we have very little political clout. We give very substantial amounts of money, as my noble friend the Minister has just outlined; what measures are we able to take to ensure that that great deal of aid money is in fact spent on the causes that we intend it to be, rather than siphoned off and spent, as I fear too much aid is, by people in whose pockets we would simply not wish to find that money?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My noble friend raises an important point, not just in the context of Ethiopia but everywhere where British taxpayers’ money is spent. It is important that the Government stand accountable for ensuring that money is spent on the intention for which it has been given. That is why I sought to provide specific answers on some of the programmes. I have already given one or two examples; I mentioned the ICRC, for which our funding of £4 million has helped in the treatment of 17,700 wounded people and 116,000 other patients. There are other specific numbers that I can provide to my noble friend. It is important because, undoubtedly, anywhere that humanitarian support is provided, there is a need for local accountability mechanisms and a full audit of how money is spent to ensure that those who are most vulnerable and in need get the money and support that they require.

Sri Lanka: Truth Commission

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Thursday 1st December 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Moylan]

To ask His Majesty’s Government what direct assistance they will offer to the reconciliation efforts in Sri Lanka and the establishment of the truth commission in that country.

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, the UK Government stand alongside our partners and have worked in the Human Rights Council core group on Sri Lanka, which has led to international efforts over many years to promote accountability, reconciliation and human rights in Sri Lanka, including, most recently, implementing UN Human Rights Council Resolution 51/1. The resolution renewed the mandate of the Office of the High Commissioner for Human Rights to report on Sri Lanka, and to protect and preserve evidence of past human rights abuses to use in future accountability processes.

[Lord Moylan (Con)]

My Lords, going beyond my noble friend’s Answer and given that next year is the 75th anniversary of Sri Lanka’s independence, and therefore its long partnership with Great Britain as a member of the Commonwealth, is he able to say whether His Majesty’s Government will consider working with Sri Lanka to invest in a large, landmark development scheme for the country that would help to add resilience in the future against the economic shocks of the sort that we have seen it suffer recently?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, notwithstanding the continuing prioritisation we are giving to human rights, which have to remain part of the discussion to ensure that the issues arising from the previous civil war are not forgotten, including the targeting of particular communities, I assure my noble friend that we remain resolute in what we are doing at the HRC. But I take on board the specific element of the economic empowerment of communities as a way to build a country. Earlier this year, as the then Minister responsible for our relations with Sri Lanka, I met President Wickremesinghe. I have also recently met Foreign Minister Ali Sabry. Our focus has also been on the current IMF package and how it should act as a lever to ensure economic prosperity for communities across Sri Lanka.

[Viscount Waverley (CB)]

My Lords, following on from the tail-end of the Minister’s remarks, does he agree that one of the best ways to assist Sri Lanka in these challenging times is to speak up for the country where opportunity exists, and that partnering would be a win-win situation, geo-economically and geo-strategically?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, in part I have already addressed that issue, but I agree with the noble Viscount that the economic prosperity of a country is an enabler to allow that country to move forward. At the same time, we remain very focused on ensuring that the important elements of reconciliation and justice also prevail.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, earlier this year the Minister assured the House that we were responding to the humanitarian crisis that occurred. I welcomed the Government’s efforts, but in November the UN team in Sri Lanka revised and extended its humanitarian needs and priorities plan, which included a call for additional funding to address nutrition and provide clean drinking water. Can the Minister tell us what steps we are taking to support that plan, including ensuring that other allies do likewise?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, the noble Lord is right, and we have of course worked very closely on the humanitarian situation. In advance of the Summer Recess, I met his colleague, the honourable Catherine West, who is the Shadow Minister for Asia, to share with her the details of our humanitarian support—£3 million was specifically allocated. The noble Lord rightly raises the UN assessments and, as he will know, we are working very closely with UN agencies, not just OCHA but others, to ensure that issues of nutrition and medical support are addressed, particularly with other key agencies, such as UNICEF, with a focus on women and children.

[Lord Bruce of Bennachie (LD)]

My Lords—

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Bruce of Bennachie (LD)]

My Lords, bad governance, conflict and human rights abuses have pushed Sri Lanka to the brink. It is reported that its debt to China is $7.4 billion, or nearly 20% of its public external debt. So will the Government work with Sri Lanka—yes, to help it address its internal reconciliation, but also to reduce its exposure to China and dependence on Russian oil and to ensure that it can engage with the whole world, rather than being pushed to one side?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I agree with the noble Lord—this is why we are working very closely. When I was last in Sri Lanka, we worked on the specific importance of ensuring the restructuring of its debt with the IMF. That programme will take time—up to about six months—to ensure the outcomes. The noble Lord is also right on infrastructure support. It is not just Sri Lanka; many countries across that region and beyond are reliant on Chinese infrastructure, which results in very long-term indebtedness to China. We are looking to see how we can form alliances and partnerships to overcome this, and the IMF rescheduling of the debt is the first step towards that. In the longer term, picking up on what I heard my noble friend say about the Commonwealth—it is good to have two ears, rather than just one—there is a role for it to play in this, which is why we are pleased that India has come forward and given credit lines to Sri Lanka to help it through its current economic troubles.

[Lord Haselhurst (Con)]

My Lords, would this not be a mission that would fit very well with the purpose and aspirations of the Commonwealth as a whole, rather than just the United Kingdom?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I agree with my noble friend. The Commonwealth Secretariat and the Secretary-General have engaged directly with the Sri Lankan Government, and we are looking to key partners. I mentioned the important role that India has played in supporting Sri Lanka at this time, as a near neighbour, both with energy issues and in providing credit lines to allow it to navigate its way through the economic challenges it faces.

[Lord Naseby (Con)]

Is my noble friend aware that I shall personally support and work for a truth and reconciliation commission, established in Sri Lanka, rather similar to those in South Africa and Colombia? However, are there not two key initiatives that His Majesty’s Government need to do to help? The first is to persuade the United Nations to remove the 20-year restriction on the source of the evidence in the Darusman report of 2011, which stated that up to 40,000 people were killed. Secondly, the UK Government themselves should surely now release to any commission the unredacted dispatches from the UK’s respected and experienced military attaché, Colonel Gash, who was on the battlefield every day from 1 January to 18 May 2009, proving beyond doubt in his dispatches that there was no genocide.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I cannot agree with all aspects of my noble friend’s questions because it is very clear that the whole point of standing up a truth and reconciliation commission in 2015 was that there was a real recognition, even by the Sri Lankan Government of that time, of the importance of bringing communities together to ensure that atrocities could be fully investigated and, more importantly, perpetrators could be held to account. That is why we have pursued the issue at the UN Human Rights Council, which is the right approach. Of course, in time, there is a need for domestic mechanisms, but the sad truth is that, since 2015, despite successive changes of Government, we have seen little progress with the truth and justice commission in Sri Lanka.

[Lord Kamall (Con)]

My Lords, my noble friend the Minister and others have referred to some of the international organisations: the UN, the IMF and even the Commonwealth. Can my noble friend enlighten us on which other international organisations the UK Government are working with to help the people of Sri Lanka at this difficult time? I refer noble Lords to my registered interests.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, as I said, it is important that there are international alliances. We are working with key countries in the region: I specifically mentioned India, which is an important partner, and the Commonwealth has been mentioned. I also mentioned the International Monetary Fund in relation to the economy. We are working with a variety of UN agencies on the ground, including the World Food Programme, UNICEF and OCHA, to ensure that humanitarian issues and priorities are also focused on.

[Lord Bellingham (Con)]

My Lords, last April, Sri Lanka became the first country in the Asia-Pacific region ever to default on its sovereign debt. Inflation is now running at 68%, and the UN predicts that nearly half of the population will be food insecure by the end of the year. So does the Minister agree with me that rebuilding the agricultural sector is absolutely crucial, after the Government’s misplaced decision to ban fertilisers and sprays? What technical help can his department give?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, on the specifics, I will certainly follow up on what my noble friend said. I agree with him on rampant inflation, which was at 73.7% in September. Over the last month, it has reduced a tad, but that is nothing to speak of—there has been a marginal single-digit decrease, and I think it is now nearer the high 60s. My noble friend is also right that we need to work on ensuring that food insecurity is addressed, which is why we are working closely with institutions such as the World Food Programme to ensure that this is addressed as a priority.

Anti-lockdown Protest in Shanghai: Arrest and Assault of Edward Lawrence

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Thursday 1st December 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, I start by welcoming the Government’s prompt response, summoning the ambassador and providing consular support for Mr Lawrence. The Minister will be aware that we debated the International Relations and Defence Committee report recently, which stressed the need for an overall China strategy covering all aspects of our relationship, so that civil society, government departments and local government all know what direction the Government are taking.

In response to the Urgent Question, Minister Rutley said that the Government

“have not committed to publish a separate China strategy, but we will continue to maintain as much transparency as possible and keep Parliament updated on our approach to China. The integrated review will be the main focus for that.”—[Official Report, Commons, 29/11/22; col. 784.]

Of course, the Minister then said that the Government will be updating the integrated review, which we know has been promised before. Can the Minister explain why we cannot see an overall China strategy and when we will see the updated integrated review?

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord and, like him, I welcome the prompt action that was taken and of course the release of the journalist. I assure all noble Lords that we remain in direct contact with him. The ambassador was summoned here in London and our consul-general extended support to the individual in the country as well.

At this time, there is nothing further I can add to the response given by my honourable friend in the other place, but I reassure the noble Lord that we remain very focused on key priorities when it comes to our relationship with China. As he will know, we are focused on areas of human rights where we have been very clear in the support we extend to persecuted minorities. Of course, we are also very cognisant that there have been particular measures taken against Members of your Lordships’ House and the other place by the Chinese authorities. It is ironic, and a reflection of the strength of the UK’s position, that we stand by the rule of law, as that is something that has been sadly missing in the response to protests and the current action China has taken against Members of your Lordships’ House and the other place.

On the issue of the integrated review, as my honourable friend said in the other place, we will be working through specific aspects of our relationship with China and that will be presented and, I am sure, debated in the usual way.

[Lord Alton of Liverpool (CB)]

My Lords, in saluting the courage of Edward Lawrence, who returned to his role as a BBC journalist even after the assault occurred, will the Minister also pay tribute to those Chinese citizens, from Tank Man in Tiananmen Square and Bridge Man before the recent CCP congress in Beijing, to the young man who this week led protesters in Shanghai calling for Xi Jinping’s removal and who was then seized by police and has disappeared? Will he reflect on the role of surveillance technology in attempting to suppress dissent, which was referred to here in the debate on the all-party amendment last night, and the comment yesterday to parliamentarians by Dr David Tobin of Sheffield University, who said

“It is exceptionally important that we don’t import that technology here”?


Does the Minister promise to at least give new consideration to the all-party amendment passed last night?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I was not in the Chamber when the specific amendment was discussed, but of course it is important that these things are looked at. The noble Lord will be aware, on the issue of surveillance, of the recent statement made by the Cabinet Office about government security and issues of Chinese surveillance. We need to remain very vigilant on this. The issue of cyber challenges and threats posed by many states is very real and we need to be ever vigilant, particularly when it comes to surveillance in our own country.

On the broader issue of the protests, ultimately it is not for the UK to speculate on the leadership within China, but it is very clear that the issue of human rights is a priority. The noble Lord knows of my personal commitment on this; I join him in recognising the strength, character and courage that must be present in those who are seeking to stand up bravely in the protests. The fact that innocent journalists were caught up for simply doing their job is again a reminder of the importance of championing media freedom.

[The Lord Bishop of St Albans]

My Lords, what attempts are His Majesty’s Government making to work with our partners in the UN to build an international consensus, so that China, which is seeking to raise its profile as an international power, hears from all quarters that suppressing journalists, not least those who are doing their duties, and arresting people for these demonstrations is simply unacceptable in the modern world?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

The right reverend Prelate is right, and I agree with his second point. In the world we live in today, we have seen journalists lead the charge, reporting on conflicts and on violence. I pay tribute to them, and that is why I was proud that the United Kingdom teamed up with others, including the noble Baroness, Lady Kennedy, to ensure that we have a really focused and laser approach on the issue of suppressing media freedom and the rights of journalists.

On the right reverend Prelate’s point on the UN, of course China is a P5 member and is now looking increasingly at contributions to various UN agencies. It has a particular view of the world that we do not share, and it is important that we rebut that very strongly. We should not just rebut it but present an alternative vision, one in which all freedoms and strengths of human rights are reflected, and make the case strongly to countries currently perceived as fragile and embarking on the road of democracy that pluralist democracies are the best model. Issues of freedom of religion, freedom of media and the rights of journalists are very much part and parcel of that process.

[Baroness Kennedy of The Shaws (Lab)]

My Lords, first I pay tribute to the Minister for his great work on human rights globally. As well as the assault on Edward Lawrence, the BBC’s former China correspondent who reported and exposed truths about Xinjiang’s re-education camps, including about sexual violence against Uighur women, had to be moved to Taiwan following pressure and threats from the Chinese authorities. Was the Foreign Office able to raise that in meetings with the Chinese ambassador in this country?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, on the noble Baroness’s specific question, the summons was specific to the incident that had taken place. When a summons happens, having led a few myself, they are pretty short, sharp and to the point. I accept the noble Baroness’s broader point about the continued suppression of rights that we continue to see and the challenges we find. Recently, as she will be aware—perhaps this is why I am looking a degree jaded—for the last 48 hours we have had a really intense conference on preventing sexual violence in conflict, with more harrowing accounts from particularly young girls and women but also young men who have to endure this violence around the world.

It was also appropriate, I felt—and I thank the noble Lord, Lord Alton, in this respect—to ensure we showcase that, when we talk of conflict, we are not talking just of war; we are talking of the suppression of rights in conflict. Often, when wars are perceived to be at an end, conflict continues, and the suppression of vulnerable communities, minorities and, indeed, women and girls, continues. I assure noble Lords that we will continue to update the House on specific issues we pick up and, most importantly, to be informed by the expert opinion in your Lordships’ House.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, is it not all the more incumbent on us to be exemplary in the way we uphold freedom of speech in this country?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I absolutely agree with my noble friend and I assure him that, when I talk of human rights internationally, I always use the phrase, “We never forget our own backyard”. Our human rights were hard fought and there were incredible champions. We are talking about issues of religion, equality and justice, and it is important that we never lose sight of the fact that human rights is never a job done. That applies equally at home as it does abroad.

[Baroness Blackstone (Lab)]

My Lords, as a member of the International Relations and Defence Select Committee, may I press the Minister further on his response to my noble friend Lord Collins on a coherent strategy? It is now some time, more than two years, since the committee asked the Government to come up with a coherent strategy. It is very disappointing that all we are getting is an ad hoc response to everything that happens in China, rather than a proper framework within which we can operate our foreign policy.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, as I said to the noble Lord, Lord Collins, the updated integrated review will provide the coherent strategy the noble Baroness articulates. I do not think we are disjointed or not linked up: I think we have seen a quite coherent approach across government on issues we have raised consistently. When it comes to China, it is important, as the noble Lord, Lord Alton, reminded us, to act jointly on issues of surveillance.

Internationally, we are looking at the growing influence of countries that will have different objectives to our own on destabilisation or, indeed, on long-term debt, which was talked of earlier in your Lordships’ House. On the suppression of human rights, there needs to be coherence in our approach. The Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office is, if I can put it this way, the custodian of our international and global response and I assure the noble Baroness that in whatever we are doing, including the review, we are working coherently and together with key departments across His Majesty’s Government.

Ukraine: Tactical Nuclear Weapons

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Thursday 1st December 2022 Lords Chamber

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, I thank all noble Lords for their participation in this important debate. I pay tribute to the noble and right reverend Lord, Lord Harries, for tabling this debate and for his work in this respect.

I agree with my noble friend Lord Cormack—the noble and gallant Lord, Lord Houghton of Richmond, also reminded us of this—about the importance of debating these issues. While we have domestic challenges, undoubtedly this is the real test and challenge of our time, given its implications for our energy security and food security. I thank the noble Lord, Lord Tunnicliffe, for his strong support. This illegal war in Ukraine seems to have been going on for an eternity, yet it started only in February.

In welcoming the noble Lord, Lord Addington, I am sure I speak for the whole House when I say we all missed the presence of the noble Baroness, Lady Smith of Newnham. He has done an admirable job but we wish her well as she recovers from Covid.

My noble friend Lord Balfe said that he has not been to Ukraine for a while. I went to Ukraine just over 12 months ago, after our incredible and inspirational ambassador, Melinda Simmons, invited me as part of my responsibilities to mark the memorial at Babi Yar to the 33,000-plus Jews shot by the Nazis in 1941. There is an irony in that: they were buried by Soviet prisoners of war. I was shocked to my core when Melinda WhatsApped me and said, “Minister, the very memorial you visited on 3 March was subject to a Russian missile”. That brought home the shocking nature of the false premise of the “denazification” of Ukraine as a justification for war—and let us not forget that President Zelensky’s own heritage is also Jewish—which is also the false basis for Mr Putin’s so-called reasoning behind liberating Russian-speaking parts of a sovereign nation. That is wrong and it must be held back.

The noble Lords, Lord Skidelsky and Lord Campbell-Savours, and my noble friend Lord Balfe again talked for peace. I agree with them. But peace is attainable only if the aggressor recognises that you cannot invade a country and seek to take the spoils of war, as the noble Lord, Lord Addington, reminded us. Mr Putin has brought back to our continent war on a scale not seen since Winston Churchill’s time, with consequences that will be felt—I agree with all noble Lords on this—in the world for years to come. That I think was a thread in all contributions.

The noble Lord, Lord Bilimoria, reminded us about Prime Minister Modi’s recent article, which I read, about the opportunities for the G20. We continue to work with key partners, not just our traditional allies. Like him, I believe that India has an important role in the eventual peace that we all desire.

However, Mr Putin believes that he can claim a victory through oppression, coercion and disinformation. Rightly, the message sent from this debate is a clear one: with one or two notable exceptions, we stand united. I thank both noble Lords who spoke from the Front Benches about not just our condemnation but our support for the Ukrainian nation and its people. I thank again the noble and right reverend Lord, Lord Harries, for bringing this to bear.

My noble friend Lord Hamilton and the noble Lord, Lord Addington, along with the noble and right reverend Lord, Lord Harries, related to us the importance of communication. As we saw with the missile that landed in Poland, there can be unintended consequences and an escalation, perhaps not through intent but by accident. I am limited in what I can say, as the noble Lord, Lord Addington, acknowledged, but what I can share is that all the P5, notwithstanding differences, continue to recognise the importance of robust cross-communication mechanisms as a key element in ensuring crisis prevention and de-escalation. These are of course further things that we share through our membership of key alliances, including NATO.

The noble and gallant Lord, Lord Houghton of Richmond, said that we need a clear narrative on dealing with this issue, including with our own domestic audience. I agree, which is why this House and the Government—indeed, all of us—need to make the consistent case for the necessity of standing firm in our support for Ukraine at this time. We have rightly united behind Ukraine in its fight for freedom and self-determination with sanctions, aid, military support and, ultimately, a clear determination to hold Mr Putin to account. The Ukrainian people, with our support, have pushed Mr Putin’s army back, as we saw recently. I agree totally with the noble Lord, Lord Anderson, that we must continue to work in assisting Ukrainian forces—a point that resonated from many noble Lords who contributed.

Ukraine is regaining its sovereign territory from Russian control; last month, Russia experienced a further strategic setback as Ukraine took back the key city of Kherson. But we cannot be complacent because Russia will regroup and attack. Mr Putin tried to reverse the momentum by holding sham referenda and attempting to annex four Ukrainian territories. He has been forced to resort to a so-called partial mobilisation, provoking further opposition among the Russian people, despite his authoritarian grip.

I agree with my noble friend Lord Cormack: our fight is not with the Russian people. As was noted during the debate, when forced conscription was suddenly applied, many young Russian men fled. Yet Russia and Mr Putin have been unrelenting in launching a wave of indiscriminate attacks on Kyiv and other Ukrainian cities. Tragically, we see how alliances are built: these attacks included using Iranian-supplied drones to launch indiscriminate attacks against civilian and energy infrastructure. On 15 November there was one of the heaviest attacks since the war began. Wave upon wave of missiles—more than 80—were fired at Ukrainian cities on one single day. This destroyed homes and critical infrastructure, depriving millions of Ukrainians of power when winter is setting in. The brutal air campaign is Mr Putin’s cowardly response to Ukraine’s successes on the battlefield, where Russian forces have been expelled from thousands of square miles of territory. The continued bombardment of civilians demonstrates little commitment to peace.

I alluded to the tragic incident in Poland, the full details of which remain unclear. We continue to support Poland and other NATO members as they seek to establish facts and be secure in their defence. It is clear that the only reason that missiles are flying through European skies today is Russian action. It is an unwarranted aggression, and it is unacceptable.

My noble friend Lord Cormack and the noble Baroness, Lady Bakewell of Hardington Mandeville, talked about the recent visit of the First Lady of Ukraine, Madam Zelenska, whom I met. Earlier this week, I had the huge honour of heading and hosting the conference on preventing sexual violence in conflict, at which the First Lady of Ukraine spoke. She shared many reflections on information she had of Russian women advising their husbands and boyfriends who were serving on the front line with the Russian forces to go ahead and weaponise rape. That puts things into perspective. For those who have heard the testimonies of those who have fallen victim to sexual violence in conflict, it is abhorrent. The practices are widespread, and there are ever-increasing and chilling tales of the abuse of young women and girls.

I learned about the violence that can spread through this particular weaponisation of war from the incredible Dr Mukwege, a Nobel Peace Prize laureate who runs the Panzi Hospital in Congo. He is on the front line and has helped survivors of sexual violence. When I visited recently with her Royal Highness the Countess of Wessex, who is playing an incredible convening role on this issue, Dr Mukwege said that there was a four year-old girl who was a victim of sexual violence. Her body was broken, and she saw that every man was a threat. The shrill shriek of her voice remains with him but, sadly and tragically, she was not the youngest victim that Dr Mukwege has had to deal with: the youngest was only six months old. What possesses a man to commit these kinds of abhorrent crimes against a young child is beyond comprehension. Yet the reality of the war in Ukraine is that these crimes are taking place on our very continent.

It is therefore right that we will not be deterred from supporting Ukraine. I appreciate the support in this debate, and I gently say to the noble Lord, Lord Campbell-Savours, that Russia is the aggressor and must withdraw. It can stop this war today if it so chooses. Mr Putin is not fooling anyone.

On what my noble friend Lord Balfe said about countries and support, let us be clear. I am the Minister for the United Nations, and I know how diplomatic efforts at times return rewards and present challenges. But, in October—just over a month ago—143 countries, or three-quarters of the membership of the United Nations, voted unequivocally to condemn the annexation of Ukrainian territory. Russia should be judged by its friends. Who supported it? Syria, Belarus, Nicaragua and North Korea did. Need I say more? The United Kingdom is therefore proud to stand with the international community and for freedom and democracy. I assure our Ukrainian friends, as I assured Madam Zelenska, that we will stand united in support of the cause.

Noble Lords referred to nuclear threats. My noble friend Lord Howell rightly reminded us of the importance of coming together and, with his wisdom, also reminded us of the importance of working with countries such as China, with whom we have disagreements. But in front of us on the global stage there are important issues, such as climate change and, most importantly, the current war, to which China also needs to be united in its response. We welcome China’s recent statement opposing the use of or threat of using nuclear weapons. I agree with the noble Lord, Lord Hannay, who speaks with great insight from his time at the United Nations as a distinguished ambassador. It seems odd that it was only on 3 January this year that P5 members signed their commitment to the Joint Statement of the Leaders of the Five Nuclear-Weapon States on Preventing Nuclear War and Avoiding Arms Races, and we therefore welcome Russia’s recent statement, on 2 November, reaffirming its commitment to this.

My noble friend Lord Hamilton and the noble Lord, Lord Bilimoria, also asked about the consequences. We and the G7 have been clear that any use of chemical, biological or nuclear weapons by Russia would be met with severe consequences. It is not our policy to outline hypothetical responses, so I can say no more than that. I assure noble Lords that NATO will not pre-empt our response to a nuclear attack on Ukraine, but if there was one—which I hope and pray there will not be, and I believe that common sense will prevail—of course it would fundamentally change the nature of the conflict and mean a very important line had been crossed. Let me be clear: NATO does not seek confrontation with Russia in this respect.

The noble Lord, Lord Browne, speaking with great insight from his time as a former Defence Secretary, knows well that UK actions ensure that we are dynamic in our response and the effectiveness of our deterrent remains strong. I assure the noble Lord and the whole House that the capability and effectiveness of the UK’s independent nuclear deterrent are not in doubt.

Since the start of the war in February, we have committed £2.3 billion in military support to Ukraine. I hear what my noble friend Lord Hamilton said on that. Alongside the United States, we have matched and will continue to support that spending next year.

My noble friend Lady Meyer talked about the importance of support to Ukraine in its own capability. I can share with her that the UK trained more than 22,000 Ukrainian soldiers before the war and has now trained more than 9,000 of the 10,000 new recruits. We will continue to support them.

The noble and right reverend Lord, Lord Harries, asked about air defences. On 16 November, Defence Ministers and chiefs of defence staff of dozens of countries discussed further enhancing support for Ukraine’s air defence. The UK has already provided approximately 1,000 surface-to-air missiles to help Ukraine to counter the Russian threat. It will provide a major new package of air defence to help protect Ukrainian civilians and critical national infrastructure. The £50 million package of defence aid comprises 125 anti-aircraft guns and technology to counter deadly Iranian-supplied drones. It includes dozens of radars and anti-drone electronic warfare capability. We have also committed £220 million of humanitarian support since February, making us the third-largest donor.

The noble Lord, Lord Bilimoria, rightly asked about the grain deal. In this, I pay tribute to the United Nations but also to our NATO friend and ally, Turkey. As of 13 November, we had seen 11.7 million metric tonnes of grain and other foodstuffs exported from the Ukrainian Black Sea ports. Some 50% of all products exported and 65% of wheat exported have gone to low and middle-income countries. That is playing its role in alleviating the acute food crisis elsewhere, in countries such as Ethiopia, Yemen and Afghanistan. We welcome the fact that this deal has recently been renewed until the early part of next year.

On 14 November, my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary signed an MoU to transfer the first £5 million of the UK’s £10 million commitment to the Energy Community’s Ukraine energy support fund to help Ukraine’s efforts to repair energy infrastructure. The UK is also supporting Ukraine’s economic stability through £74 million of direct budget support. We have worked to unlock £1.3 billion of additional World Bank and EBRD lending support.

My noble friend Lady Meyer asked specifically about sanctioning. I assure her that we are sanctioning. Working together with our partners in the G7, the EU and the United States, we have now sanctioned 1,200 individuals including 130 oligarchs with a net worth of around £140 billion. We have also sanctioned 386 members of the Russian Duma. That underlines our strong commitment.

The UK is also working with our allies to reduce Europe’s dependence on Russian oil and gas. From 5 December, as I announced during a statutory instrument debate, there will be a ban on UK ships transporting Russian oil. The issue was rightly raised by my noble friend Lord Shinkwin, the noble Lord, Lord Addington, and the noble Baroness, Lady Bakewell, whom I thank for her kind remarks.

I assure noble Lords that we are supporting the Ukrainian authorities to investigate these atrocities. In May, together with the EU and the US, we launched the Atrocity Crimes Advisory Group to support Ukraine’s investigations and prosecutions. We have provided £2.5 million of funding and have led 42 other countries in referring atrocities committed in Ukraine to the International Criminal Court. The ICC prosecutor, Karim Khan, was present at the Preventing Sexual Violence in Conflict conference, and recently both the Foreign Secretary and I met with him directly to discuss the various proposals. I say to my noble friend Lord Shinkwin that we are carefully considering the call for a special tribunal on Ukraine. It is right that we stand firmly to ensure that all crimes are investigated, particularly the abhorrent crimes of sexual violence.

Many noble Lords, including the noble Lords, Lord Skidelsky and Lord Campbell-Savours, said rightly that they want to see an end to this conflict, as everyone does. Ukraine and partners seek a diplomatic solution to the war. Ukraine has put out a 10-point plan, but Russia has shown no interest in good-faith negotiations. Mr Putin has made it clear that negotiations will not include the territories he has attempted to annex illegally; that cannot be the right starting premise. I assure noble Lords that the UK, together with our partners, will work with Ukraine to provide lasting and long-term diplomatic, military and economic support. We will continue to work through all key areas and look at areas of reconstruction.

Again, I will write to the noble Lord, Lord Anderson, among others, on the specific details of the asset seizures which are being conducted. The UK Government are considering all options for seizing assets to support the people of Ukraine. I disagree profoundly with my noble friend Lord Balfe, who said that, somehow, this will result in other assets from other countries pulling out from the UK. I worked in the City of London for 20 years; it is a robust centre. The reason we have seized assets belonging to Russia is because Russia invaded a sovereign territory. If Russia pulls out now, the war can end, and we can look to see how assets can be used to rebuild. Russia should pull out now for the sake its own people within Russia. There is no opposition there; we have seen what happened to the likes of Mr Navalny.

Finally, I turn to the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Hannay, about the incredible role played by Rafael Rossi. I join the noble Lord in commending his role among probably the most trying circumstances in the IAEA nuclear facility.

To conclude, this is an illegal invasion which should never have happened. I agree with noble Lords, including the noble Lord, Lord Tunnicliffe, who said that it has gone on for far too long. I hear what he says about the need for structured working and assurances on what we will do next. However, I am sure that he would recognise that we are planning to support, and have already supported, the humanitarian, military, economic, justice and accountability pillars to ensure that Ukraine prevails.

Russia will not pull back. As I said earlier, Russia can end this war by ceasing its illegal assault on Ukraine today and withdrawing its forces. I am sure that I speak for every noble Lord who has spoken in this Chamber and beyond when I say that we salute the resilience, resolve and courage of the Ukrainian people. We saw that resolve and courage once again with the visit of the First Lady. We will stand firm; we will be relentless in our support for Ukraine’s right to self-defence. Parties across your Lordships’ House have backed this strong response, and I know that that is backed by the majority of those who sit on the Cross Benches. That unity of purpose and action will ultimately be our joint resolve and support of Ukraine. Our support for Ukraine matters; it matters for freedom, democracy and for every country that neighbours Russia. I have spoken to their Ministers; they may not come out due to fear, but many worry that, if Russia were allowed to prevail, they would be next.

I end, if I may, on a very personal note, going back to a point made by the noble and gallant Lord, Lord Houghton of Richmond, about how far this narrative is reaching. Half way through this year, I was on one of my many calls to the incredible Foreign Minister, Dmytro Kuleba, who has become a good friend of mine. I was in my study at home. My young son, Faris Amaan—it means “knight of peace”; perhaps there is a poignancy in that—came in, wanting to give me a bit of a hug, because he had come from his friend’s house. He knew I was busy; he had picked up from the call that we were talking about the very atrocities that the noble Baroness, Lady Bakewell, talked about, which were being inflicted on mothers and young children. Young Faris heard that and disappeared; he returned once he knew the call was over, knocked on the door and gave me a hand-painted flag of Ukraine, with the words written on it: “For the children of Ukraine.” Sláva Ukrayíni!

Qatar: FIFA World Cup

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Thursday 24th November 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock]

To ask His Majesty’s Government what representations they have made to (1) FIFA, and (2) the government of Qatar, regarding restrictions on players and fans attending the FIFA World Cup.

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, Ministers and senior officials have raised the concerns of visitors to the World Cup with Qatari authorities at all levels and will continue to engage on this issue. Qatar has repeatedly committed that everybody is welcome to the tournament, including LGBT+ fans. We will continue to encourage equal treatment and respect for individual rights, and to identify what action the Qatari authorities are taking to match that commitment.

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock (Lab Co-op)]

Is the Minister aware that in discussions we in the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe had directly with the Qatari authorities and FIFA, we got categorical assurances that the human rights of fans and players would be properly respected? Since during the World Cup the venues and the surrounding areas are effectively international territory, will the Minister make it absolutely clear to the authorities in Qatar that they should honour human rights based on international norms?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, the answer is yes. Indeed, I have already done so. I am Minister for the Middle East and North Africa. I and my colleague the Minister for Sports have met the Qatari ambassador, and my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary visited Qatar and met the Deputy Prime Minister and the Foreign Minister. I thank the noble Lord for his work and that of the Council of Europe. He will know that the same assurances have been given, and we are working very constructively with the Qatari authorities. This is a time for celebrating football, and everyone, no matter who they are or where they are from, is part and parcel of that celebration. We look forward to the World Cup being a successful one and perhaps one, finally, of success for the home nations.

[Lord Wigley (PC)]

May I draw the attention of the House to the case of Professor Laura McAllister, a former Welsh international soccer player, who, when she entered a stadium earlier this week, had her multicoloured bucket cap removed by the officials working there? Will the Government make it clear to the authorities of that country that in no circumstances can similar international events be supported in that country if that is the way they treat visitors to it?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I agree with the noble Lord. We are aware of that case and have made that representation. Indeed, referring back to some of the meetings we have had, I have made it clear that there will be some supporters who may not be themselves part of the LGBT community but who wish to display solidarity and support. Indeed, many fans will be wearing the rainbow flag around their necks, walking down the streets of Qatar. That point is understood, and we have assurances from the ambassador, as I said. I am sure there will be instances, as the noble Lord has articulated, but we will follow up very quickly, as we are doing. I say to every noble Lord that if particular issues arise during the course of the World Cup, please raise them with me directly and we will make sure that the authorities in Qatar are made fully aware of our strong opinion on this matter.

[Lord Addington (LD)]

I have just heard that a German Minister has decided that they will wear the OneLove armband when sitting next to a FIFA official while watching one of the matches. Will the Government give us an assurance that a gesture at least as important and as direct will be made if we have any representation at these matches? If not, why not?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, first and foremost it is for every individual to make whatever support they wish to indicate any community and any suppression of human rights. What is more effective in our advocacy—I am giving an answer and, while the noble Lord, Lord Scriven, may not wish to hear it, other noble Lords do. That is not the way of the House; it is appropriate to listen and hear. At the same time, I take on board what the noble Lord, Lord Addington, said. It is right that we make these issues very clear. Whatever issue of human rights is raised, we will raise it directly with the authorities, and we are working very constructively in this respect.

[Lord Cashman (Lab)]

My Lords, teams have been banned from wearing the rainbow armbands. As we have heard, the Qatari authorities have banned fans from wearing rainbow T-shirts and rainbow hats. Does the Minister agree that such overreactions help no one, certainly not FIFA and certainly not Qatar, and they do not suppress the human rights abuses that are being carried on within Qatar and the other Gulf states?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, on the noble Lord’s second point, we have a debate later today and I know we will discuss all elements of human rights. On his earlier point, I agree, as I have said. I am thankful to him and the noble Lord, Lord Collins. There were issues that arose in advance of the World Cup that were highlighted to me concerning particular demonstrations that took place, and I hope the noble Lord, Lord Cashman, feels that we handled that sensitively and effectively and resolved matters. That is the constructive way I am engaging on this issue.

[Lord Sherbourne of Didsbury (Con)]

My Lords, I am grateful to the Minister for having made representations, but can he tell the House whether they have had any effect?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, obviously we rely on the reassurances of those in the most senior part of the Government. Instances are arising, as have been highlighted during the course of this Question, and as they arise they need to be dealt with effectively and in the interests of the fans concerned. We will continue to adopt that approach.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, we recognise that the game is going on and we may be celebrating the victory of teams, but we should not forget the families of the workers who suffered as a consequence of FIFA’s decision. Some 6,500 workers died building the infrastructure for this cup. In November and January of this year, I raised the ILO’s report on this matter. Can the Minister reassure me that he has raised this issue with the Qatari authorities and that proper compensation will be given to the families of the victims who suffered as a consequence of building those stadiums?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, on the noble Lord’s second point, of course I will follow up. I am fully aware of the ILO report, and we have engaged directly with the Qatari authorities and the ILO on its findings—that was last year, in 2021—to ensure that this is followed up and that each individual case is dealt with on its merits, so that those who have suffered are given the appropriate support and indeed compensation. We will continue to engage with this issue, not just during the World Cup; it is important that we do it as a follow-up after the event as well.

[Lord Birt (CB)]

My Lords, the football authorities have been found severely wanting, FIFA self-evidently for siting the World Cup not only in Russia but now in Qatar, UEFA for presiding over the near disaster—the calamity—at the Stade de France, and the FA for its supervision of the Euro final just a few years ago. When the World Cup is over, will the Minister suggest to the Secretary of State for Culture that she invites the leaders of those three associations to meet her and to explain to her how they all plan to raise their game?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, the noble Lord makes a very valid point. Of course I will follow up exactly as he suggests.

[Lord Campbell of Pittenweem (LD)]

My Lords, does the Minister share my disappointment that FIFA threatened the captain of the English team with a yellow card if he were to wear the OneLove armband?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, on a personal level, I do. There have been significant moments, such as taking the knee to stand up to racism and showing solidarity for every suppression of human rights. It is important that in an international tournament people get on with the game but, while it is a matter for FIFA, I am sure we all have our personal perspective on this issue.

[Lord Kamall (Con)]

My Lords, one of the questions being asked is how we ended up in this situation. Can the Minister advise the House what representations are being made to FIFA so that future tournaments are not awarded to countries that raise similar concerns?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, as my noble friend will know all too well as a former Minister in DCMS, this is a matter for that department. At the same time, the main engagement on this issue has been through the Football Association directly with FIFA, which is the normal way. But, to go back to the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Birt, it is important as we look forward that the issue is not just about celebrating tournaments. We should look at the countries that are chosen and taken forward to celebrate international events, but that is the time for profiling human rights in their own backyard. It provides an opportunity to have constructive engagement. In future decisions, which are for other people, we should make our views clearly known.

[Lord Tugendhat (Con)]

Does my noble friend agree that the only real heroes of Qatar are the Iranian footballers, the only people who have actually made a protest for which they are going to have to pay a price?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, as we celebrated England’s victory, I think we were all were touched by the poignancy and solidarity shown by the Iranian football team, people who were in solidarity particularly with the brave women of Iran. It was an incredibly courageous step, and we stand very much with everyone who is standing in unity with the Iranian people.

Ukraine: Post-conflict Reconstruction

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Thursday 24th November 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Lancaster of Kimbolton]

To ask His Majesty’s Government what discussions they have held with allies concerning post-conflict reconstruction in Ukraine.

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, we engage regularly with our partners to ensure that the international momentum behind Ukraine’s recovery is sustained. We attended the German-hosted Ukraine reconstruction conference on 25 October and next year we will be hosting the Ukraine recovery conference in London, bringing together allies to signal our continued support and to co-ordinate efforts. We aim to build on the progress made at this year’s Ukraine recovery conference using our international influence and our commitment to drive delivery of Ukraine’s recovery.

[Lord Lancaster of Kimbolton (Con)]

I thank my noble friend for his Answer, I am grateful for his and the Government’s work and for the support of His Majesty’s Opposition in ensuring that the United Kingdom has been a leader in this field. However, before we collectively pat ourselves on the back, it is worth reminding your Lordships’ House of the scale of the challenge. In June, the World Bank conducted a rapid damage assessment and concluded that $349 billion would be required to reconstruct Ukraine. That figure is already six months out of date. According to the latest figures from the World Bank, we have raised $19.1 billion, less than 5% of what is required. My concern is this: in our rightful desire to end this brutal conflict, how do we ensure that Russia is not let off the hook but pays its fair share towards the reconstruction of Ukraine?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I thank my noble friend for his remarks. Of course, he is right. We have seen real unity of purpose and action from the United Kingdom on Russia’s illegal war in Ukraine. I agree with him that the economic recovery issue is immense. It is worsened by the fact that, after a degree of respite a couple of months ago, Russia’s subsequent carpet bombing of Ukrainian cities set back some of the recovery work that had taken place. For example, the United Kingdom has been engaged in reconstructing health centres, hospitals and schools.

That said, in the first instance we have also applied £37 million to a multi-donor partnership fund for resilience in Ukraine. Through UK Export Finance we have committed £3.5 billion to cover infrastructure, health, energy and security projects. However, the situation in Ukraine is incredibly unstable and vulnerable communities are suffering. Currently, about 60% of people in Ukraine are living on less than $5.50 per day—up from 2% in 2021. We are playing a significant role bilaterally. The UK has also unlocked £1.375usb billion of finance for Ukraine through working with multilateral institutions and multilateral development banks.

[Lord Browne of Ladyton (Lab)]

My Lords, both Iraq and Afghanistan have taught us that for the rebuilding of a country we need strategic patience, and the international community does not have enough of that. We also need transparency and accountability, or else we will fail. Ukraine, for all that it deserves, is one of the most corrupt countries in the world according to Transparency International. It is fundamental to the investment of reconstruction money into this country that we set up accountability and transparency regarding where the international money is going. I hope that we take a role, because of our experience in both Iraq and Afghanistan, to ensure that it is right.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

I agree with the noble Lord. One of the real challenges we have in any conflict is ensuring that money reaches those who require it. It is a continued commitment. The noble Lord referred to Afghanistan and Iraq. I know first-hand of the continued challenges, with people looking to intervene and interject, particularly with financial support throughout the country. These are the very points that we are focused on in respect of Ukraine. We need a continued strategic approach from a UK government perspective, but equally, whether it is the United States, the EU, ourselves or other key allies, we need to be totally aligned and working to a single objective.

[Lord Purvis of Tweed (LD)]

My Lords, on the Government’s co-ordination work and commitment, I ask two things of the Minister. If it helps Ukraine, will the Government consider funnelling any additional support into the Team Europe fund, to which €19 billion was committed at the October conference, so that there is greater efficiency in the delivery of that work? Secondly, will the Minister please commit that any future support for Ukraine’s reconstruction will not be offset by cuts to developing countries, so that they do not pay the penalty for Putin’s aggression?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, on the noble Lord’s second point, as I said in response to him yesterday, we remain committed to key objectives in respect of our ODA spend. Of course, the ODA spending and the challenges we faced in providing support for Ukraine has impacted on some of the work we are doing around the world. However, we continue to stand steadfast on some of the key conflicts. Afghanistan, which was mentioned a few moments ago, is a notable example.

On the noble Lord’s earlier point, of course, we want to ensure every fund, but it comes back to the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Browne: it must be efficient, effective and transparent, ultimately ensuring delivery of the true purpose—the reconstruction of Ukraine.

[The Earl of Clancarty (CB)]

My Lords—

--- Later in debate ---

[The Earl of Clancarty (CB)]

My Lords, one of the things that Russia has tried to do is destroy Ukraine’s identity as a separate and independent country. Much of that identity resides in their arts and culture, which is extremely important to them. What further help can we give to continue to protect Ukraine’s arts and culture, and to assist with the rebuilding of churches and other buildings of cultural significance when this conflict is over?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

Again, I assure the noble Earl, Lord Clancarty, that we remain very much committed to the reconstruction of Ukraine across the piece. He mentions arts and culture. In visits to Kyiv and other parts of Ukraine prior to the conflict, I saw the richness of its cultural and religious history. We are working with key partners, but there is also an important role for institutions such as UNESCO, focusing on heritage sites to ensure that they are protected.

I welcome the fact that my noble friend Lord Howell has not yet converted to the Cross Benches.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, I return to the original point of the Question: how do we hold Russia to account? Earlier this month, we had the UN General Assembly resolution on mechanisms for reparations. What other UN bodies are we working with to hold Russia to account? How will we engage with and involve civil society in Ukraine, which will be vital to the reconstruction of that country?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, on the noble Lord’s second point, he will be aware that we are a key part of the Atrocity Crimes Advisory Group, to which we have allocated £3.5 billion. We are also working with the US and the EU on that, and with civil society organisations. There is a real request from the Ukrainian Government regarding the importance of Ukrainian civil society organisations. On the broader point about the UN, frankly, as the noble Lord knows, the UN system was not, beyond the World Food Programme, for example, ready for a conflict such as Ukraine. However, we have been working in partnership with key UN agencies, including UNICEF and OCHA, and will continue to do so. Civil society delivery is key to that, particularly civil society organisations that know Ukraine best—the Ukrainian ones.

[Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)]

My Lords, what we have done so far is good, and there has been of talk of a new Marshall plan. But does the Minister accept that in 1945, the Marshall plan took two or three years to get going and was entirely paid for by the United States, whereas in this case, we will be raising funds from all around the world—not least Russia itself but also international institutions, the UN and many other countries, including ourselves? This will require very careful administration and possibly a slightly different model from the Marshall plan.

Also, whereas in 1945 the war was over and there was defeat, and therefore a peace scenario in which to operate, here this will not be the case at all. Russia, even if defeated, if that is right word, will probably continue rearming and have another go. Therefore, we will need a model and an approach that has not been tried before. The more that we hear about it and develop it, the better.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, we do need a kind of strategic endurance, if I can term it that way, again referring back to the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Browne. The world today is very different from 1945: there are institutions such as the G7, the G20 and of course NATO, which will be key to ensuring that we give the military and humanitarian support required, allowing Ukraine to continue to operate economically and to reconstruct in the long term. Work has started in this respect and there are good partnerships, but we need co-ordination and that must continue.