Ukraine: Post-conflict Reconstruction

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Thursday 24th November 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Lancaster of Kimbolton]

To ask His Majesty’s Government what discussions they have held with allies concerning post-conflict reconstruction in Ukraine.

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, we engage regularly with our partners to ensure that the international momentum behind Ukraine’s recovery is sustained. We attended the German-hosted Ukraine reconstruction conference on 25 October and next year we will be hosting the Ukraine recovery conference in London, bringing together allies to signal our continued support and to co-ordinate efforts. We aim to build on the progress made at this year’s Ukraine recovery conference using our international influence and our commitment to drive delivery of Ukraine’s recovery.

[Lord Lancaster of Kimbolton (Con)]

I thank my noble friend for his Answer, I am grateful for his and the Government’s work and for the support of His Majesty’s Opposition in ensuring that the United Kingdom has been a leader in this field. However, before we collectively pat ourselves on the back, it is worth reminding your Lordships’ House of the scale of the challenge. In June, the World Bank conducted a rapid damage assessment and concluded that $349 billion would be required to reconstruct Ukraine. That figure is already six months out of date. According to the latest figures from the World Bank, we have raised $19.1 billion, less than 5% of what is required. My concern is this: in our rightful desire to end this brutal conflict, how do we ensure that Russia is not let off the hook but pays its fair share towards the reconstruction of Ukraine?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I thank my noble friend for his remarks. Of course, he is right. We have seen real unity of purpose and action from the United Kingdom on Russia’s illegal war in Ukraine. I agree with him that the economic recovery issue is immense. It is worsened by the fact that, after a degree of respite a couple of months ago, Russia’s subsequent carpet bombing of Ukrainian cities set back some of the recovery work that had taken place. For example, the United Kingdom has been engaged in reconstructing health centres, hospitals and schools.

That said, in the first instance we have also applied £37 million to a multi-donor partnership fund for resilience in Ukraine. Through UK Export Finance we have committed £3.5 billion to cover infrastructure, health, energy and security projects. However, the situation in Ukraine is incredibly unstable and vulnerable communities are suffering. Currently, about 60% of people in Ukraine are living on less than $5.50 per day—up from 2% in 2021. We are playing a significant role bilaterally. The UK has also unlocked £1.375usb billion of finance for Ukraine through working with multilateral institutions and multilateral development banks.

[Lord Browne of Ladyton (Lab)]

My Lords, both Iraq and Afghanistan have taught us that for the rebuilding of a country we need strategic patience, and the international community does not have enough of that. We also need transparency and accountability, or else we will fail. Ukraine, for all that it deserves, is one of the most corrupt countries in the world according to Transparency International. It is fundamental to the investment of reconstruction money into this country that we set up accountability and transparency regarding where the international money is going. I hope that we take a role, because of our experience in both Iraq and Afghanistan, to ensure that it is right.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

I agree with the noble Lord. One of the real challenges we have in any conflict is ensuring that money reaches those who require it. It is a continued commitment. The noble Lord referred to Afghanistan and Iraq. I know first-hand of the continued challenges, with people looking to intervene and interject, particularly with financial support throughout the country. These are the very points that we are focused on in respect of Ukraine. We need a continued strategic approach from a UK government perspective, but equally, whether it is the United States, the EU, ourselves or other key allies, we need to be totally aligned and working to a single objective.

[Lord Purvis of Tweed (LD)]

My Lords, on the Government’s co-ordination work and commitment, I ask two things of the Minister. If it helps Ukraine, will the Government consider funnelling any additional support into the Team Europe fund, to which €19 billion was committed at the October conference, so that there is greater efficiency in the delivery of that work? Secondly, will the Minister please commit that any future support for Ukraine’s reconstruction will not be offset by cuts to developing countries, so that they do not pay the penalty for Putin’s aggression?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, on the noble Lord’s second point, as I said in response to him yesterday, we remain committed to key objectives in respect of our ODA spend. Of course, the ODA spending and the challenges we faced in providing support for Ukraine has impacted on some of the work we are doing around the world. However, we continue to stand steadfast on some of the key conflicts. Afghanistan, which was mentioned a few moments ago, is a notable example.

On the noble Lord’s earlier point, of course, we want to ensure every fund, but it comes back to the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Browne: it must be efficient, effective and transparent, ultimately ensuring delivery of the true purpose—the reconstruction of Ukraine.

[The Earl of Clancarty (CB)]

My Lords—

--- Later in debate ---

[The Earl of Clancarty (CB)]

My Lords, one of the things that Russia has tried to do is destroy Ukraine’s identity as a separate and independent country. Much of that identity resides in their arts and culture, which is extremely important to them. What further help can we give to continue to protect Ukraine’s arts and culture, and to assist with the rebuilding of churches and other buildings of cultural significance when this conflict is over?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

Again, I assure the noble Earl, Lord Clancarty, that we remain very much committed to the reconstruction of Ukraine across the piece. He mentions arts and culture. In visits to Kyiv and other parts of Ukraine prior to the conflict, I saw the richness of its cultural and religious history. We are working with key partners, but there is also an important role for institutions such as UNESCO, focusing on heritage sites to ensure that they are protected.

I welcome the fact that my noble friend Lord Howell has not yet converted to the Cross Benches.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, I return to the original point of the Question: how do we hold Russia to account? Earlier this month, we had the UN General Assembly resolution on mechanisms for reparations. What other UN bodies are we working with to hold Russia to account? How will we engage with and involve civil society in Ukraine, which will be vital to the reconstruction of that country?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, on the noble Lord’s second point, he will be aware that we are a key part of the Atrocity Crimes Advisory Group, to which we have allocated £3.5 billion. We are also working with the US and the EU on that, and with civil society organisations. There is a real request from the Ukrainian Government regarding the importance of Ukrainian civil society organisations. On the broader point about the UN, frankly, as the noble Lord knows, the UN system was not, beyond the World Food Programme, for example, ready for a conflict such as Ukraine. However, we have been working in partnership with key UN agencies, including UNICEF and OCHA, and will continue to do so. Civil society delivery is key to that, particularly civil society organisations that know Ukraine best—the Ukrainian ones.

[Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)]

My Lords, what we have done so far is good, and there has been of talk of a new Marshall plan. But does the Minister accept that in 1945, the Marshall plan took two or three years to get going and was entirely paid for by the United States, whereas in this case, we will be raising funds from all around the world—not least Russia itself but also international institutions, the UN and many other countries, including ourselves? This will require very careful administration and possibly a slightly different model from the Marshall plan.

Also, whereas in 1945 the war was over and there was defeat, and therefore a peace scenario in which to operate, here this will not be the case at all. Russia, even if defeated, if that is right word, will probably continue rearming and have another go. Therefore, we will need a model and an approach that has not been tried before. The more that we hear about it and develop it, the better.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, we do need a kind of strategic endurance, if I can term it that way, again referring back to the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Browne. The world today is very different from 1945: there are institutions such as the G7, the G20 and of course NATO, which will be key to ensuring that we give the military and humanitarian support required, allowing Ukraine to continue to operate economically and to reconstruct in the long term. Work has started in this respect and there are good partnerships, but we need co-ordination and that must continue.

Civil Society and Human Rights Defenders

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Wednesday 23rd November 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Collins of Highbury]

To ask His Majesty’s Government what steps they are taking (1) to strengthen civil society, and (2) to improve protection for human rights defenders, internationally.

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, the FCDO is taking a leading role in countering the increasing trend of closing civic space around the world. We continue to raise restrictions to civic space with Governments and multilaterally, drawing on the range of diplomatic and development levers available, including sanctions where appropriate. We also continue to work closely with the UN and other key partners, as well as at a country level, to understand how we can improve protection for human rights defenders globally.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

I thank the noble Lord for that response. He knows that I have consistently raised this issue, because when nations fail in their most important task of providing safety, security and freedom to their people, it is often—or always—civil society that leaps first to their defence. In the integrated review, the Government committed to promote open societies and work with human rights defenders as a priority, but how is this priority being translated into action? Does the FCDO plan to develop a strategy to resist this global trend of the closure of civil society space? If it does plan such a strategy, will the Minister commit to consult with civil society both here and globally in its development?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, on the noble Lord’s second point, the answer is yes, because you cannot develop a strategy unless you work with practitioners. I am certainly keen to take that forward. As the noble Lord may well be aware, the United Kingdom Government launched a specific document on UK support for human rights defenders back in 2019, and we worked with civil society groups, including Amnesty International, at the time. We are working through our extensive network of diplomats, and indeed through posts, in supporting human rights defenders. At times, we have to be very cautious of our approach in terms of the public profile we give to human rights defenders in other countries through the support we are extending to them, but we stand very much focused on the training of our diplomats as well as working very constructively with civil society organisations around the world.

[Lord Alton of Liverpool (CB)]

My Lords, on this Red Wednesday, when Mr Speaker has given instructions for the Palace of Westminster to be lit red this evening to commemorate all those who suffer or are persecuted for their belief—hundreds of millions of people around the world—will the Minister say what more we are doing to promote Article 18 of the 1948 Universal Declaration of Human Rights, which insists that every person has the right to believe, not to believe or to change their belief? In particular, will he take up again the case of Zhang Zhan, the young woman lawyer who went to Wuhan to expose the origins of Covid-19, motivated by her faith, who now languishes in a CCP jail, with British diplomats refused permission to attend the court hearing and no information given about her whereabouts, or indeed about her health?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I will follow up and update the noble Lord on his second point. On his first point, of course, the United Kingdom stands very firm in our defence of freedom of religion or belief around the world. It is important that we remain steadfast in that. As a country, we celebrate the rich diversity of faith or belief. Indeed, our own journey, while it may have been challenging, is testament to this. As we look around the rich tapestry of faith institutions in the United Kingdom today, we have church steeples, cloisters, gurdwaras, synagogues, mosques and temples; that really demonstrates how we celebrate faith. Equally, many are denied their right to faith or belief around the world. That is why we held a conference earlier this year; the noble Lord was directly engaged with that. He also knows of my personal commitment to ensure that this remains a key priority for His Majesty’s Government.

[Baroness Sugg (Con)]

My Lords, the work described in the Question from the noble Lord, Lord Collins, is undoubtedly needed. Front Line Defenders identified at least 358 people who were killed in 2021 because of their work defending rights. We have heard that in the Government’s integrated review there is a commitment to work with civil society and human rights defenders as a priority. We have an upcoming review of that; can my noble friend the Minister commit that that will remain a priority?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I assure my noble friend that it remains a priority. Indeed, very recently after the appointment of the new Government my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary, the new Minister for Development, Andrew Mitchell, and I met civil society organisations directly to ensure that each of their priorities was fully understood, both in terms of the work we are doing in defending human rights around the world and equally in terms of understanding their development priorities.

[Lord Purvis of Tweed (LD)]

My Lords, how can the Minister say that it is one of his priorities when government programmes on open societies and human rights have been slashed by 74% between 2019-20 and 2021-22? We know that the most important human rights defenders around the world are women. It is a year and a week since the Government said they had

“decided to restore the women and girls development budget to what it was before the … ODA … cut”.

Why can I not find any evidence of this reversal? Would this not be a horrific, dreadful broken promise if the Government have reneged on that commitment?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, the first thing I would say to the noble Lord is that it is not just about money. One of the primary assets we have is our advocacy and diplomacy. The noble Lord himself is an example of diplomacy and advocacy around the world. I am proud of the fact that the United Kingdom leads on this agenda, not just on freedom of religion, standing up for girls’ rights, standing up for development, standing up for human rights defenders through practical initiatives, yes, but support through money as well. We stand by our commitment to ensuring that humanitarian support and the priority given to women and girls remains part and parcel of our development and diplomacy effort.

[Lord Woodley (Lab)]

My Lords, at the heart of civil society are the trade unions, the workers’ last line of defence against bad bosses and authoritarian Governments across the world. Yet, unfortunately our own Government have dramatically undermined workers’ rights for the past 12 years and are planning to go further, even against the advice of employers. Can the Minister confirm that he is co-operating with the International TUC and the ILO to stop the abuse of workers such as we have seen in Qatar, with thousands of workers dramatically losing their lives. Is he not embarrassed that the Government claim to be championing human rights while restricting them at home?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, among other things I am the UK Human Rights Minister and, as I am sure the noble Lord, Lord Collins, would testify, I believe in co-operation and working very closely with the Trades Union Congress and indeed with the CBI. I assure the noble Lord that in our interactions I meet regularly with the ILO and hear the views of the TUC. Indeed, the TUC forms part of the UK delegation in the annual International Labour Conference. I stand by that. Trade unions play an important role in our consultation and, as he said, both in Qatar and elsewhere we take their views very much on board in standing up for the rights of migrant workers. We have a debate later this week on human rights, workers’ rights and migrant rights. It is because of UK support, technical support, diplomatic support and through experience of our CSOs that we are able to help countries, including those in the Gulf, improve migrant rights as we have seen in places such as Bahrain.

[Baroness Coussins (CB)]

My Lords, there is an in-principle agreement between the UK and Mexican Governments to hold a human rights dialogue alongside the free trade negotiations. Although the trade talks have already completed two rounds, the human rights dialogue has not even started yet, and there is no sign of a timetable despite the human rights crisis in Mexico. Can the Minister tell the House whether a date has been set for this dialogue to begin and, if not, what the problem is?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I am not sure of the date of commencement, but I will write to the noble Baroness. We work very closely on this agenda with Mexico. I know, for example, on issues of LGBT rights, on the Equal Rights Coalition we handed over in September the co-chairmanship among other countries to Mexico, so we have a comprehensive human rights dialogue with it. As I said, I will write to the noble Baroness about the date.

[Lord Cashman (Lab)]

My Lords, as we have seen from the tragic events in an LGBT club in Colorado and the staggering rise in trans hate crime in this country —there were 2,630 such crimes in 2021—hate speech, from wherever it comes, has devastating consequences. I would therefore like to ask the Minister this: what specific action are the Government taking to work with LGBT human rights defenders in countries where LGBT people are criminalised and where the death penalty exists for LGBT people, such as the United Arab Emirates, Iran, Nigeria, Saudi Arabia and Qatar?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, the noble Lord is right to raise these issues, and I pay tribute to his work on this important agenda. I assure him that, through our network of more than 280 missions around the world, we deliver direct diplomatic engagement and raise LGBT rights directly, even in those parts of the world. Again, there are noble Lords with whom I confer privately sometimes because of the sensitivity of the issue. I do not hold back; we hold those discussions quite candidly to ensure the rights of all citizens, whatever their faith, belief or sexuality, as we enjoy them here in the UK—notwithstanding the domestic challenges that the noble Lord highlighted. We continue to remain focused. Human rights should be universal for everyone everywhere.

Russia (Sanctions) (EU Exit) (Amendment) (No. 16) Regulations 2022

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Monday 21st November 2022 Lords Chamber

Moved by

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

That the Regulations laid before the House on 3 November be approved.

Relevant document: 18th Report from the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee

Motion agreed.

Russia (Sanctions) (EU Exit) (Amendment) (No. 15) Regulations 2022

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Monday 21st November 2022 Lords Chamber

Moved by

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

That the Regulations laid before the House on 28 October be approved.

Relevant document: 17th and 18th Report from the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, I shall speak also to the Russia (Sanctions) (EU Exit) (Amendment) (No. 16) Regulations 2022.

The instruments before us were laid on 28 October and 2 November respectively under powers provided by the Sanctions and Anti-Money Laundering Act 2018. They make amendments to the Russia (Sanctions) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019. With these amendments, the UK continues to put immense pressure on Mr Putin and Russia with our international partners. This is part of the largest and most severe economic sanctions package that Russia has ever faced.

I will first talk about the No. 15 regulations. Through this legislation, we are banning exports of hundreds of items that are critical to the functioning of Russia’s economy, particularly in the manufacturing sector. This includes items such as machinery, electrical appliances, metalworking tools, precision instruments, and other products that are of critical importance to Russia’s industrial and technological capabilities. They will be added to an extended list of items that we have already sanctioned.

This legislation also bans further imports from Russia, including gold jewellery, and Russian gold processed in third countries. This strengthens the ban on Russian gold that we first introduced in July. The United Kingdom has received only one shipment of Russian liquefied natural gas since the Ukraine invasion. The legislation prohibits these imports to the UK entirely from 1 January 2023. The instrument also bans the import of other goods that generate revenue for Russia, including vodka, vinegar, beverages, and food waste products, and it prohibits the provision of services in the technical assistance, financial services and expertise, and brokering sectors.

In total, the United Kingdom has wholly or partially sanctioned £20 billion-worth of goods per year, which is 96% of the goods that we used to trade before the invasion took place. As with all our sanctions, this package has been developed in co-ordination with our international partners. I assure noble Lords that we will continue to work with them to identify further potential measures to bear down on Russia.

I will make one final point on SI 15. Owing to the unprecedented pace of our sanctions work, we identified a minor mistake which occurred during drafting and corrected associated documents to reflect this on 11 November. This correction means that the export prohibitions of the products in new Schedule 3I, “Russia’s vulnerable goods”, will now come into force on 1 January 2023, at the same time as the ban on the import of liquefied natural gas. We expect the change to have minimal impact on the effectiveness of the measure.

I turn to the No. 16 regulations. Again, working with our partners across the world, the UK has imposed a range of sanctions on Russia and continues to do so. This legislation is a further important step in undermining Mr Putin’s ability to fund his illegal war on Ukraine. We are now further targeting oil, one of his most significant sources of funding. This builds on bans already introduced on the import of oil into the United Kingdom.

Oil is a key sector for the Russian economy and plays a vital role in funding the Russian war effort in Ukraine. Crude oil and oil products are Russia’s most lucrative export, around 75% of which are transported by sea. They accounted for 10% of GDP in 2021. These new powers allow the UK to move in lockstep with our allies, limiting the revenues that Russia can derive from the sale of oil transported by sea.

It is important to protect vulnerable countries for which energy security is critical. While this measure targets Russia specifically, it also aims to maintain the flow of oil at a stable price in order to manage inflated global energy prices—prices that are a direct result of Mr Putin’s actions. This legislation implements a core part of the policy that will prevent countries using the UK’s services to transport seaborne Russian oil and refined oil products unless they are purchased at or below the oil price cap, set and agreed by the price cap coalition of the G7, the European Union and Australia.

Importantly, the UK and our coalition partners will not ourselves be purchasing Russian oil. We and our partners have introduced our own domestic import bans on Russian oil from 5 December. Instead, this is about ensuring that UK, European, and G7 services cannot be used to facilitate the trade of Russian oil.

The ban on services, including insurance, brokerage and shipping, implemented through this legislation, will be coupled with a general licence providing the basis for an oil price cap exception. This will allow third countries to continue accessing services only if they purchase Russian oil at or below the cap. This measure will restrict Mr Putin’s ability to fund his illegal war in Ukraine, while allowing oil to flow in a tight market that will enable all countries—particularly those with lower incomes—to purchase affordable oil.

A key element of this measure is the UK’s world-class insurance sector. It provides key services that enable the movement of oil by sea, particularly protection and indemnity insurance. Here, our reach is significant: the United Kingdom is a global leader in the provision of third-party liability insurance, writing 60% of global cover provided by the 13 protection and indemnity clubs. Together with our G7 partners, we collectively write around 90% of this cover.

The potential impact of this measure, and the central role of the UK, cannot be overstated. The ban on providing services for Russian seaborne oil will come into force on 5 December. A further ban on providing services for Russian seaborne refined oil products comes into force on 5 February, in alignment with our international partners. This important measure will be enforced by the Office of Financial Sanctions Implementation, working closely with the industry. This robust enforcement regime will be backed up by prosecutions if necessary.

Together with the actions taken by our partners in the G7, the European Union and Australia, this measure represents one of the single biggest sanctions placed on Russia, one which targets their largest source of revenue. These new amendments demonstrate our continued determination and commitment to target those who participate in, or facilitate, Mr Putin’s illegal war of choice on Ukraine. I assure noble Lords that we will remain steadfast and will continue to bring forward further sanctions. I beg to move.

[Lord Berkeley (Lab)]

My Lords, will the Minister comment on a report in the Sunday Times yesterday about the export of oil from Russia in a Russian ship from the Black Sea? It tied up against another ship somewhere in the Mediterranean and that oil was transferred over several days; the oil subsequently was delivered to Immingham. That, to me, is importing Russian oil. Are these regulations going to stop this, and how are they going to check it?

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

I am just waiting to see whether anyone else wishes to comment—every time someone says something, it provokes a point. I hope I am not going to be too provocative. I want to start by being very clear that the Opposition are at one with the Government on these sanctions. We will do whatever we can to support their speedy reduction. If there is one message from this House, it is that this country is absolutely united against Putin’s illegal war and, in particular, as we have seen, the recent indiscriminate attacks on civilian infrastructure, designed to do one thing, which is to damage the homes and the heating of families and children. So I start by saying that we are absolutely at one with the Government.

The No. 15 regulations rightly extend the prohibitions on goods critical to Russian industries. I am particularly pleased about that instrument ending the importation of liquefied natural gas—LNG—originating from Russia. Western allies, including the EU, have made real progress this year, as the noble Lord, Lord Purvis, said, in obtaining liquefied natural gas from appropriate sources, such as the United States. Prohibiting this Russian source is a good step towards energy security.

There is one thing about the speed of the introduction. The Minister highlighted an error that occurred, but another thing that struck me was that the import ban will not come in until January 2023. He explained that the error would mean that certain prohibitions will not come in until January, but why will that ban not come into force until January 2023?

I want to pick up the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Howell, because he is absolutely right. It is not just about working with allies to impose sanctions. What are we doing to support countries which need these energy supplies? What are we doing to advise them on and provide help with alternative sources? It is not easy for countries to suddenly switch if they have become reliant over the years, so it is not just a question of offering sticks. It is also about encouragement and support, so I hope the Minister can tell us a bit about that.

The ban on liquefied natural gas also prohibits loans to firms that support Russian interests, even if they are based outside Russia. To what extent are the Government already monitoring which companies are providing finance for these purposes? The Minister has said on many occasions that whatever sanctions we may introduce, there will be someone trying to circumvent them. That means enforcement is critical—the noble Lord, Lord Purvis, made this point. The United States appears to have quite strong enforcement measures. Are we examining not just how we act in concert when introducing legislation, but exactly how we can more effectively act in concert on enforcement, which will ensure that people do not easily circumvent it?

My noble friend’s question on circumvention was a good one. If this is being done so explicitly, I hope we can take more direct action on it. However, the regulations also have exceptions—I want the Minister to highlight some of these—which will allow oil products to be provided to third countries. Can he explain a little more about the circumstances where this would be permissible? In particular, we have heard about other countries’ roles in importing and then exporting. We need to be reassured that we are taking that into account.

The noble Lord, Lord Purvis, made the broader point about international co-operation and co-ordination on sanctions. In our consideration of each statutory instrument as it has come in, we have certainly raised with the Minister the fact that the United States and Canada seem able to introduce sanctions faster, or well before our own. There may be good reasons for that—it is an incremental build.

As we move into a longer period of these sanctions, I wonder whether the FCDO has done a general assessment of where and why there may be gaps, and how we can hit Russia with one big hit, rather than taking an incremental approach. It would be really good if Parliament could be given such an assessment. How are we building up allies and persuading others to join, even if they are unable to match our speed of implementation? Are they at least coming on board in some of the other areas?

In conclusion, I reiterate the Opposition’s full support for the Government’s actions here, and we look forward to further clarification.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

I thank all noble Lords who participated in this short but important debate. I again put on record the Government’s thanks for the strong sense of co-operation that has been extended by all noble Lords. In particular, I acknowledge the role played by the Front Benches of His Majesty’s Opposition and the Liberal Democrats; I will continue to share information and work with noble Lords in this respect.

On the point raised by the noble Lord, Lord Berkeley, I will certainly look into it. On circumventing, referred to by the noble Lord, Lord Collins, there will always be ways and means of doing that, and this comes back to effective enforcement, a point made by all noble Lords. That is why we need co-ordination, and not just in the imposition of sanctions. I take on board the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Collins, about ensuring effective imposition, and what the noble Lord, Lord Purvis, said about the impact on the Russian economy. I say again—I know all noble Lords agree on this—that our intention, ultimately, is not to hit the Russian people; it is about ensuring that Mr Putin and his Government feel the full force of international action and collaboration. In this regard, I will certainly come back to the noble Lord, Lord Berkeley, if I have more detail specific to the issue he raised.

My noble friend Lord Howell raised the issues of implementation and circumvention, particularly in respect of oil, and the noble Lord, Lord Purvis, raised working with our international partners. We are strengthening our engagement in this respect and have done so particularly recently. This subject was discussed in the G20, not just the G7. The fact that we are now fully aligned with our partners in the US, Australia and, importantly, across the European Union, allows us to make those points consistently across the piece and in a unified fashion.

The noble Lord, Lord Collins, raised the issue of oil and vulnerable countries. We are not seeking totally to disable economies, particularly of vulnerable countries that are already feeling the real impact. Here, the test will be in the application. We have seen this with energy in Europe, and I have seen it directly in my visits to north Africa in the context of food security. We have implemented these sanctions—I come back to that crucial word, “co-ordination”—in a co-ordinated way, and we are aligned with our partners across the EU, Australia and the US. Coming back to the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Berkeley, there is the question of how we strengthen our maritime co-operation to ensure that any illicit practices can be stamped out.

As I have said, I have always been alive to any issue that has arisen, but particularly when it comes to the impact and application of sanctions, there will undoubtedly be organisations and individuals looking to circumvent them, and it is important that we stay aligned.

Turning to some of the specific questions raised, the noble Lord, Lord Purvis, referred to the delay in bringing measures into force when the EU has already done so. The SI represents the earliest opportunity to match the prohibitions in this area announced by the EU, and I assure noble Lords that we speak to our allies constantly. There are differences in application of the system but, as I said, I take on board the question of how we can close the gap.

I assure the noble Lord, Lord Collins, that there is an analysis. Again, I will check with officials and seek to share what I can. I have had analysis done across the UK, the EU, the United States, Canada and Japan. When it comes to individuals, we are marginally ahead of the EU. When it comes to oligarchs, again, we and Canada seem to be ahead. There are other areas—for example, on entities—where Canada and the United States are ahead. Where systems are fluid, such as here, we are aligned, but we have a running tally to ensure that the entities or individuals that we are sanctioning are fully aligned with our key partners. I will certainly seek to see how much of that I can share at headline level with noble Lords.

[Lord Purvis of Tweed (LD)]

I am grateful for that. One area that the EU is looking at is effectively a punitive exit tax: those who have assets in one area and seek to dispose of them in another will be penalised through taxation. Effectively, if the sanction does not get them at the start, it will get them at the end. That would be an absolutely critical area where there must be no difference across our allies. Will the Minister please consider that? It is an area where there cannot be any difference at all.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I certainly take that on board. On this issue we are absolutely at one, and the real benefit of your Lordships’ House is that, where there are areas that are identified, I of course welcome practical suggestions for how we can target quite specifically—and, as I said, we will certainly take those forward with the EU and our other allies.

I turn very briefly to asset seizures. My noble friend Lord Empey raised the issue of previous situations that arose on Libyan assets. I assure the noble Lords, Lord Purvis and Lord Empey, that we are considering all options for seizing Russian-linked assets that could be used to support the people of Ukraine, including to fund humanitarian efforts and reconstruction. Law enforcement agencies are currently able to seize UK-based foreign assets with links to criminality or unlawful conduct by making use of powers under the Proceeds of Crime Act 2002. My department is working closely with other government departments and law enforcement agencies to identify all possible options for seizing Russian-linked assets in the UK that could also be used to pay for reconstruction in Ukraine. Our international partners that we are co-ordinating with have also frozen a significant volume of assets but, like the UK, are yet to fully test the lawfulness of the asset-seizure regime. I assure noble Lords that we will continue to explore all possible options for seizing Russian-linked assets to pay for reconstruction costs in Ukraine. Of course, we have to respect our legal obligations and responsibilities. As the details emerge, I will of course be happy to share them with noble Lords.

The noble Lord, Lord Collins, raised the important issue of export bans coming into force from January 2023. That is when the import ban on Russian liquefied natural gas takes effect, and the legislation will mean that the export bans take place at the same time. That is purely to ensure that we get everything in place so that the application of those sanctions can have full impact. As I said in my opening remarks, we believe that the delay caused by that will not have a major impact in any shape or form. I might add that, earlier this year, the Government pledged to ban Russian oil this year, and liquefied natural gas as soon as possible thereafter. That is why we set the date on 1 January.

The noble Lord, Lord Purvis, raised the issue of gold. He mentioned that it is not something that he is normally adorned with. As someone with heritage from south Asia, I assure him that gold is a significant area of interest to many people across the world, particularly in the heritage that I have. Our intention is to look at organisations but not necessarily to penalise individuals with the impact of this measure. We have imported minimal gold jewellery from Russia, and Russian gold imports to the UK have already been prohibited by the initial measure. This measure seeks to reinforce the existing ban, aligns its scope with the bans that our allies have also imposed and prevents a potential loophole from being exploited. I will look further into the specifics of what the noble Lord raised, but I will share with him the statistic that in 2021 imports of Russian gold to the UK were worth £11.1 billion and accounted for 61% of our total exports from Russia. As a result of the Government’s actions and the decision of the London Bullion Market Association, that trade has already ceased, depriving Russia of that specific amount of export revenue.

Also on the issue of gold, we are trying to target Russian businesses trading in gold, as I said earlier, not individuals who possess gold. I will take away the noble Lord’s earlier point about selling an asset in another area or sector, but, on this aspect, I come back to the earlier point I made; we are seeking to target businesses while minimising the impact on ordinary Russian citizens.

The noble Lord, Lord Purvis, also raised the issue of Russian revenues. I assure noble Lords that, while I am not going to go into specific figures, within the G7 and in the G20 recently we have been working through solutions that can apply universally with partners and also to lessen the impact on particular vulnerable countries and economies. That is the right way to approach our sanctions policy, beyond just the immediate area we have looked at on ensuring that humanitarian causes, and channels, remain open.

These measures continue our wave of sanctions that is having damaging consequences on Mr Putin’s regime. I assure noble Lords that we are committed to going further. I welcome practical suggestions and insights that can be brought to this debate and discussion. In doing so, we work very much with our key allies. We stand firm and resolute with the people of Ukraine, and we will continue to support them and the Ukrainian Government until, ultimately, we see Russia withdraw from Ukraine. The sanctions are but one example of the UK’s continued support. Therefore, I am proud to say that we continue in a very unified sense in ensuring, ultimately, that Ukraine can prevail.

Motion agreed.

Human Rights: China

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Thursday 17th November 2022 Grand Committee

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, I thank every noble Lord who has taken part in this debate, in particular the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of St Albans for tabling this very important debate. We have heard deep, expert insights on human rights in China.

As the UK Human Rights Minister, I welcome this amplification and continued spotlight on this issue. On a personal note, it certainly strengthens my hand in discussions I have with colleagues across government. It is important that we continue to raise these issues because, to put it simply, it matters. We have had two debates on this issue today, and it is right that we continue to focus and hold the Government to account on what more they can do in this respect.

The right reverend Prelate and the noble Lord, Lord Purvis, drew important focus to the people-to-people links between China and the United Kingdom. That is perhaps unique to the United Kingdom and, arguably, the United States—two countries that quite often, when we talk about international affairs, have reflective domestic insights as well. The Chinese culture, communities and, most importantly, people, as British citizens here, are vital to the vibrancy, diversity and strength of the United Kingdom.

I acknowledge and thank the right reverend Prelate and the noble Lord, Lord Alton, for their kind remarks on the BNO policy and the United Kingdom Government. I add, particularly to the right reverend Prelate and the noble Lord, that their advocacy is equally important because it brings that focus and attention to these issues. I recall those debates and discussions. At times I cannot answer fully because we are restricted by some of the sensitive discussions, but they acted as a real catalyst for ensuring the joined-up thinking and close working with our colleagues. I also pay tribute to the then Home Secretary for ensuring that the procedures and processes were put in place to offer that warm welcome to people who wanted to come to the United Kingdom for the right reasons. That continues to be the case with BNOs.

I turn to the important issue of human rights violations. I listened carefully on some of the trade issues. I say to the noble Lord, Lord Purvis, and others that I will consult my colleagues in the Department for International Trade and write in that respect, as I will on a couple of questions on the property and the site that the noble Lord, Lord Alton, raised.

I will go through some of the measures that I know we have taken which we can amplify. I subscribe to what the noble Lord, Lord Collins, said about supply chains. It is right that the Government have made these statements, but we also need to go into the detail to ensure what the impact is. We know that sanctions can be circumvented. It is important that when we act, as we have in the case of Xinjiang, we do so in concert with our key partners to ensure that there is a consistent approach in this respect.

I turn to the situation in China. China’s ongoing human rights violations include in Xinjiang—and let us not forget Tibet, which has not come up specifically—as well as the erosion of rights and freedoms in Hong Kong, as we have heard.

I will take Xinjiang first. Frankly, the evidence of the scale and severity of human rights violations being perpetrated against the Uighur Muslims paints—I state this quite deliberately—a harrowing picture in every sense. As noble Lords will know—I have certainly discussed this with the noble Lords, Lord Collins and Lord Alton—I held bilateral meetings with the then high commissioner, Michelle Bachelet, to ensure that her visit happened. We were long-standing advocates of that. Yes, it was a managed visit, but the report she produced was very telling in its detail. We welcomed the fact that the report happened. Noble Lords including the noble Lords, Lord Collins and Lord Purvis, pointed out the issue of the vote that happened, which was just on the procedural motion. In the end the tallied figures, after there was a small discrepancy, showed that the difference was just one vote, 20 to 19. Nevertheless, that shows the strength of Chinese influence, ironically, on members of the Human Rights Council.

This is not part of my formal script but I will say it because it needs to be on the record: it is an extreme disappointment that we do not see the Islamic world—the Muslim countries themselves—standing up against the biggest internment of the Muslim community anywhere in the world. When issues of Islamophobia are raised with me, because we do have challenges of anti-Semitism and Islamophobia in the United Kingdom, that immediately throws a spotlight back on the discrimination and total internment of Uighurs on which there is, frankly, a deafening silence. I assure noble Lords that the issue is very close to my heart and I continue to raise it bilaterally with a number of countries.

The report itself sets out a range of evidence, including first-hand accounts from victims, of arbitrary and discriminatory detention, torture, sexual and gender-based violence, violations of reproductive rights and the destruction of religious sites. Perhaps most notably, the report also states that the extent of arbitrary and discriminatory detentions of members of Uighur and other predominantly Muslim groups

“may constitute international crimes, in particular crimes against humanity.”

That is a very damning but factual assessment from what was a limited visit by the then human rights commissioner.

The report also corroborates the growing evidence we have of China’s human rights violations in the region. While the recent focus on Beijing’s violations has been about Xinjiang, there are of course a number of other long-standing human rights issues in China. In particular, I note the issues around the situation in Tibet—issues that noble Lords have mentioned about freedom of religion or belief, and the reports of Tibetan parents being coerced and intimidated into sending their children to state boarding schools.

I acknowledge fully the points made by the noble Lords, Lord Alton and Lord Rogan, the right reverend Prelate and all who raised the issue of persecutions, not just of the Uighur Muslims but of Christians, Buddhists, Falun Gong practitioners and others, simply on the grounds of their religion or belief. I was humbled yet honoured to host the freedom of religion or belief conference earlier this year, but a conference alone will not resolve the issues. Nor will this debate, but it is important that the focus remains.

Regrettably, we have also seen ongoing Chinese assaults on Hong Kong’s autonomy and freedoms. The national security law, which we have debated and had questions on in your Lordships’ House, continues to be systematically used to restrict rights and freedoms and silence dissenting voices. The authorities’ decision to target leading pro-democracy figures for prosecution in Hong Kong is unacceptable. Hong Kong’s way of life, prosperity and stability rely on respect for fundamental freedoms—rights and freedoms, let us be clear once again, that China itself undertook to uphold as a co-signatory of the Sino-British joint declaration. They are also protected in Hong Kong’s Basic Law. It is their law, something the Chinese Government and state signed up to, and it should be upheld. It was an internationally agreed statement lodged with the United Nations.

Noble Lords raised a number of points. First, on the issues around Cardinal Zen, Jimmy Lai and Andy Li, I assure the Committee that the United Kingdom has spoken repeatedly, and will continue to do so, about China’s arbitrary arrests and prosecutions in Hong Kong, including the names I have mentioned. Where trials are taking place, we also have consular attendance. I will of course keep noble Lords updated in this respect.

[Lord Alton of Liverpool (CB)]

Before the Minister leaves that really important point about the way the judiciary has been subverted in Hong Kong, will he respond to the remarks of my noble and learned friend Baroness Hale, reported in today’s newspapers? Do the Government support her view that jurists should search their consciences before they participate in such proceedings?

[Lord McInnes of Kilwinning (Con)]

Before the Minister replies, I remind Members that there should be only one intervention per speech in a QSD.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

Perhaps I will cover that specifically in the note but, as I said, I certainly agree with the principle of the importance of jurists, and of asking whether they are able to fulfil their obligations in the way that they are designed to within the construct that has been set up. Ultimately, it is the jurists’ decision, but it is important. Very able jurists will ask themselves that question.

On the Prime Minister’s position, which was raised several times, at the recent G20 meeting in Bali he set out the view that China is both a systematic competitor and

“the biggest state-based threat to our economic security”.

There have been different perspectives, but we have a long-standing commitment to Taiwan. As noble Lords will be aware, my right honourable friend the Trade Minister also visited Taiwan recently. The UK’s long-standing position on Taiwan has not changed. While we do not have diplomatic relations with Taiwan, we have a strong unofficial relationship based on growing ties in a wide range of areas, including trade, and we share the common values of democracy, which Taiwan also propagates. We do not support any unilateral attempts to change the status quo. I have often said in your Lordships’ House that it is for both sides of the Taiwan Strait to address these issues. I have noted a number of other points that were raised, such as statements made to committees by colleagues of mine in the Government. I have not seen the full details; it would be remiss of me not to respond, but I will do so once I have had time to review them.

I turn to what the noble Lord, Lord Collins, said about UK action. We continue to work within the context of the UN. I mentioned the Human Rights Council. At the UN Third Committee last month we also supported the latest joint statement on China’s human rights violations in Xinjiang. Following a concerted effort with our partners and the UK’s network of embassies and high commissions, a record 50 countries, representing six continents, supported that statement. We have taken opportunities to raise our wider concerns in international fora, including in relation to Tibet, and we remain active and resolute in calling China out on its actions to undermine Hong Kong’s way of life, as all noble Lords alluded to.

I am short of time. I have already committed to consulting with colleagues, particularly in the Department for International Trade, but I assure noble Lords that we have introduced new measures in the modern slavery Bill that require businesses and public sector bodies to report on specific areas in their modern slavery statements, including due diligence. We have improved the application of UK export controls.

To conclude, I assure noble Lords of our continued commitment to the primary importance of human rights for all communities within China and our continuing commitment to the relationships we have with key areas, including Hong Kong and Taiwan. December will mark the 75th anniversary of the adoption of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. That affirms the universal character of human rights as inherent, inalienable and applicable to all human beings. That will remain our moral compass.

Missile Incident in Poland

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Thursday 17th November 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Purvis of Tweed (LD)]

My Lords, I also associate these Benches with the condolences offered by the noble Lord, Lord Collins, to those affected by this. We agree with the NATO Secretary-General when he said that

“this is not Ukraine’s fault”

because the cause is Russia, which “bears the ultimate responsibility”. Putin will of course seek division, and therefore it is important that the UK and our allies are together with President Zelensky in supporting the Polish Government and investigating the direct cause of this.

It is to be welcomed that the UK and our allies at the G20 conference reacted in a sensible and cautious way. I support the work of the Government on this. The Foreign Secretary said in the Statement that

“the UK stands ready to provide any practical or technical assistance”

to the Polish Government. Can the Minister say whether the Polish Government has asked for that from the UK and whether that is to be provided? We offer great resources when it comes to investigative capacity, and our intelligence networks are of course second to none. I hope that they are fully open to the Polish authorities.

The Government have said that the UK has provided

“more than 1,000 surface-to-air missiles thus far”

to Ukraine. We have supported the deployment of UK assets provided to Ukraine. Can the Minister give an estimate of how many of those have so far been used and whether UK support with regard to missile capability needs to be replenished? The Minister knows well enough from questions in previous debates that we have sought clarity as to UK stocks of supplies, not only for supporting Ukraine but for our own defensive capabilities. It would be helpful to know what level of resources that we have made available has been used.

Can the UK now work with our allies to move into a new phase of tackling what could well be apparent impunity? The random bombardment of cities with missiles from the Putin regime is fully grotesque. There is no question in my mind that this is now absolutely a clear crime of aggression, in addition to the crimes against humanity that we have already discussed. Can the Minister update the House with regard to the UK policy on the crime of aggression? The UK has not ratified the amendments to the Rome Statute made in Kampala in 2010. We have not been as clear as I believe we should be in support of those who have called for a hybrid chamber on the crime of aggression of the UN and Ukraine, so that we can see movement on reducing the prospect of impunity for the Putin regime. Is this not now the appropriate time to review the UK’s position on the failure to ratify the amendments to the Rome Statute on the crime of aggression? The UK should be seen as a facilitator in moving to establish a chamber where we can see some of the crimes that have so clearly committed by the Putin regime put to the judicial process, so that there can be punishments for the crimes that are so obviously taking place.

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, I first thank the noble Lords, Lord Collins and Lord Purvis, for their strong support of the Government’s position. I align myself totally with the condolences extended to those impacted by the tragic deaths in Poland, which I am sure reflect the view of the whole House. Let us not forgot that this is a direct action caused by Mr Putin. There were 80-plus missile attacks across Ukraine in a blanket manner. We are of course working with the Ukrainian Government, and again I am thankful to both the Front Benches and their respective parties across both Houses for their strong support for the position that the Government have taken in support of Ukraine, and indeed in our strong alliances with our key partners through NATO, the European Union and with other countries as well.

The noble Lord, Lord Collins, raised the importance of co-ordination with NATO. As he may be aware, my right honourable friend the Prime Minister conducted, first and foremost, a direct call with the Polish President, showing absolute solidarity with President Duda. My right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary spoke to the Foreign Minister of Poland and the Prime Minister also spoke immediately to President Zelensky. Indeed, we co-ordinated some of these calls at the G20 with other key allies. As for the response, there was co-ordination with the EU through various partnerships, including the convening of a meeting of the G7 by President Biden, which the Prime Minister and the President of the European Commission attended. This underlines the strong unity of purpose and action across the piece among all allies in support of Ukraine, and of course standing in solidarity with a fellow NATO member, Poland.

The noble Lord, Lord Collins, asked about our co-ordination and support of air defences. As the noble Lord, Lord Purvis, said, we have provided support, and I assure both noble Lords that we work in a co-ordinated fashion with our NATO partners to ensure that the munitions and equipment required by Ukraine and other NATO allies are kept constantly under review in the current crisis. There was an emergency meeting of NATO ambassadors that the United Kingdom Permanent Representative to NATO also attended, which covered many of these issues around exact requirements and the response from Poland, but also, importantly, how we as the NATO alliance should react to the situation that arose.

It was quite notable—as I am sure all noble Lords would acknowledge—the restraint that was shown, including in public statements. I remember sitting in your Lordships’ House as this issue unravelled and, as I left, I sought an immediate update. With the continuing war and Russia’s indiscriminate bombing in Ukraine, it was, frankly, deeply concerning to see that this situation had crossed the border. I have been to the border and seen some of the air defences of the Polish Government. Again, I reassure both noble Lords that we are fully aligned and co-ordinate through NATO on the level of support required, not just the direct support that we are providing to the Ukrainian authorities, which we have listed many times, but how we can co-ordinate our best response as the NATO alliance.

On technical support to Poland, I assure the noble Lord, Lord Purvis, that those conversations have happened; he can take it as read that we are offering whatever support Poland needs. Poland has played a phenomenal role in the situation in Ukraine, as I and other noble Lords who have visited the region have witnessed, through the support it has provided for those fleeing the conflict in Ukraine, including support within Poland. We talked the other day about victims of sexual violence in conflict, and there are victims of sexual violence in this conflict. Again, we are working very closely with the Polish authorities to ensure that the correct information is provided to those seeking action on such crimes.

The noble Lord, Lord Purvis, talked about atrocity crimes and co-ordinating our response. I assure him that we have had detailed discussions, including with the ICC prosecutor. As he will be aware, we have set up a specific group with our key partners to look at atrocities on the ground in Ukraine. He asked about co-ordination with the EU. That group works specifically with the EU and the United States, and we will continue to work in a co-ordinated fashion to ensure that the perpetrators of crimes in Ukraine are brought to justice quickly. We need to learn from conflicts past. The mechanics, the structures and the systems being set up in Ukraine will allow prosecutions to take place effectively and in an expeditious manner. It is particularly important that we ensure that testimonies are collated. We are working on that front specifically, and I will welcome all noble Lords attending the conference at the end of the month, where we can have a specific focus on how we can further strengthen our response through testimonies, particularly those from survivors of sexual violence, to ensure that crimes inflicted can be documented appropriately. We are working with key groups such as Nadia’s Initiative to ensure that survivors are at the forefront of our mind.

I thank both noble Lords for their support. I assure them that we are co-ordinating with our G7 partners. It was interesting that this took place during the G20; it perhaps allowed other countries within the G20 who have not been as focused and strong in their support for Ukraine to reflect very carefully on what this conflict means, for not just Ukraine or Europe but the world as a whole.

[Lord West of Spithead (Lab)]

My Lords, the war has now been raging in Ukraine for several months, and the danger of armed conflict is that you can get unplanned escalation. There have been a number of incidents that could have led to such unplanned escalation, including the one in Poland that we are discussing. That would lead to world war. We are having to replenish our own stocks and we are providing stuff to Ukraine. Does the Minister agree that it seems extraordinary that, in this many months, we have not actually increased our defence spending? As I say, this could easily tip over into world war. There are real pressures and we have real problems within the defence forces, and we really need to do something. Not only have we not done anything so far but it sounds as though we are about to cut defence spending, which is extraordinary in the world we are in.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I note what the noble Lord says. In the context of Ukraine, we have already committed to the funding we gave previously to Ukraine for military support. That £2.3 billion of military support will continue for next year as well; that is a standing commitment. The noble Lord talked about the importance of replenishing stocks. I assure him that, as we continue to support the requirements of countries such as Ukraine, and indeed our commitments through NATO, we keep a very close watch on our own assets and replenishing stocks for our own defences as well.

The noble Lord raises two very important points about the continued commitment from the Government to military and defence spending during the current crisis we face. As I speak, a Statement is being made in the other place by my right honourable friend the Chancellor. Equally, we have made commitments internationally, through our spending on NATO. I suggest that our commitment to NATO spending, particularly at this time, is an important call to the other countries of NATO to ensure that they are also spending the required 2% of GDP on their contributions to NATO defences.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, I shall continue on this theme, strongly supporting the noble Lord, Lord West, in what he said. Is my noble friend absolutely confident that, if this conflict escalates, as well it might, this country is not only able to continue supplying Ukraine but has sufficient munitions itself to tide us through a decent period of time? That is vital. Can my noble friend give the House that assurance?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, we work very closely with our colleagues in the Ministry of Defence. As I have said numerous times, the first duty of any Government is the security and defence of their own country and people. I am sure all noble Lords will agree that we have among the best—arguably the best—Armed Forces, with their experience, insights and the professionalism that they bring to the world scene. That is reflected in our contributions to NATO, which remain very strong. I agree with my noble friend that as we look to support Ukraine, it is important, as the noble Lord, Lord West, reminded us, that we stay equally strong in our defences and defence spending at home.

[Lord McDonald of Salford (CB)]

My Lords, one of the most remarkable features of the conflict in Ukraine since February has been the consistency and quality of the leadership of President Zelensky, but in his statement since the strike on Poland he seems not to be as co-ordinated with NATO. Indeed, he seems to be trying to drag NATO into more direct involvement in the conflict. Can the Minister assure your Lordship’s House that His Majesty’s Government are making it clear to President Zelensky that expanding the conflict is in nobody’s interest?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, the noble Lord will know from his own insights, experiences and dealings with Ukraine the importance of ensuring that we stand firm and solid with our friends and partners in supporting it. What President Zelensky’s country is going through is unimaginable. Let us not forget that, as I said, at the time of this incident in Poland missiles were flying in abundance over every city in Ukraine—every key city was under attack in a blanket, indiscriminate missile attack. What we saw in response from President Zelensky, whom we all agree has played an amazing role, was a strong defence of the territorial sovereignty and integrity of Ukraine.

I know the noble Lord is fully aligned with that objective, but I give him that reassurance. That is why, as I said, my right honourable friend the Prime Minister, along with other key G20, G7 and NATO leaders, talked directly from the G20 to the President of Poland and, importantly, President Zelensky about the importance of co-ordination. As Ukraine is confronting a time of war, it is important that calm heads prevail.

[Viscount Stansgate (Lab)]

My Lords, the risk of miscalculation in war is very great. The Statement we are discussing is somewhat outdated and has been overtaken by events, which have shown that cool and calm analysis is necessary in what would otherwise be a dangerous situation. The noble Lord referred to the moment when he first heard the news; when I first heard it, like many others, I feared the worst. Fortunately, we now know what happened.

It was a coincidence that the G20 leaders were meeting in Indonesia. It is not for nothing that the photograph of people clustered around the President of the United States and the British Prime Minister has been published all over the world, but they just happened to be there together. Can the noble Lord assure the House that the experience of this incident will be used to make sure that the mechanisms for conferring within NATO and, in light of the previous comments, with the President of Ukraine—whose views slightly diverged from what has otherwise been a fairly common front—are absolutely in order? God forbid that this should ever happen again, but if it did, we would need an effective and quick mechanism to avoid the risk of any terrible miscalculation.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

I agree with the noble Viscount. I assure him that, even within our internal systems, the importance of how information is cascaded, decisions are taken and people are informed is part and parcel of learning from any type of incident such as this. That needs to be reflected in the systems within the FCDO and the MoD and across government. I talked to officials yesterday about this very point. As he said, the G20 was together and President Biden immediately convened a meeting of the G7. That is why NATO matters. Different steps were taken in different places at the same time, which reflected the planning that has gone into ensuring co-ordination at a time of war. As I have said time and again, and I know noble Lords agree, this is not about one country being at war with another or a war on one continent—an escalation of this crisis would have global implications and consequences.

While it was perhaps coincidental, I suggest that there was also a degree of divine intervention at work to ensure that those leaders who have perhaps not been as strong in recognising the impact of this war, not just in terms of food or energy security but its degree of escalation, had that reality brought home. I assure the noble Viscount that the systems and structures are in place. I hope he also recognises that in some of the calls my right honourable friend the Prime Minister made; one of the trilateral calls he immediately made was with my right honourable friends the Foreign Secretary and the Defence Secretary, to ensure that our response as His Majesty’s Government was fully aligned.

[Lord Bellingham (Con)]

My Lords, the missile strike on Przewodów was a tragedy. Even if it was not deliberate, it was in the context of a brutal Russian bombardment on many cities and civilian targets in Ukraine, so only one country can be responsible for it. The Minister said something about air defences. Supplying hardware is one thing but can he say something about the training we are giving to Ukrainian military personnel to man these systems?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, we are fully engaged in training personnel; from the annexation of Crimea, we have been working strongly with the Ukrainian authorities and have specific programmes for it. There is currently a live programme training 10,000 personnel and a raft of other programmes and initiatives that we are running directly with the Ukrainian authorities to ensure that they do not just have the best equipment, which we are providing, but are well trained in using it.

[Lord Anderson of Swansea (Lab)]

The Minister and my noble friend were right to praise the restraint of the Polish Government—incidentally, they have also responded magnificently to the refugee crisis—but does this incident not reveal vulnerabilities? Poland held back and refused to invoke Article 5 of NATO, yet Russia is waging cyberwarfare at the moment on a number of NATO countries. Is it the Government’s view that cyberwarfare is capable of leading to an invocation of Article 5?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I will not speculate on the triggers of Article 5. The Polish Government followed the protocols very specifically; they reflected on the Article 4 elements of ensuring that consultation took place immediately with NATO members, which was the right approach as facts were being established. The noble Lord rightly raises the threat and challenge posed by cyberwarfare. I do not recall if he was in the House yesterday when we discussed the situation in Georgia—the continued occupation of the breakaway republics and the Russian influence in Abkhazia and South Ossetia—but one of the areas of support we are providing to the Georgian authorities is in exactly that space. The United Kingdom is among the leaders on cyber, in both dealing with cyber threat and cyber defences. I assure him that we are focused on all these fronts in our response to, and support of, not just Ukraine but other countries directly impacted by Russian aggression.

[Lord Purvis of Tweed (LD)]

My Lords, the Minister did not reply to my question about the failure of the UK to ratify the Kampala amendments to the Rome statute on the crime of aggression, which means that we are unable to promote the UN General Assembly and Ukraine in setting up a hybrid chamber to prosecute Putin for the crime of aggression. Can he respond to that?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I am aware of Ukraine’s request on this. It has approached us directly but we have reservations, not least about how the structures would work. I answered the question at least partially in saying that we have dealt with these issues directly with the International Criminal Court, which is working on the ground. We want accountability and justice for the perpetrators of crimes and are looking to work through the practical solutions that can best bring that about as quickly as possible.

[Baroness Stuart of Edgbaston (CB)]

My Lords, are there any plans to offer Poland increased assistance in patrolling its airspace?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, as I said, we are working through NATO to identify exactly what the requirements are for Poland. It is a member of NATO, and the NATO protocols are very clear. We are working very closely with our NATO allies and the Secretary-General to ensure that Poland’s requirements are met by the alliance as a whole, of which the UK is a part.

[Lord West of Spithead (Lab)]

My Lords, if the House will allow me to return to my previous question, we have been teetering on the brink of a possible world war. No one wants that to happen, but mistakes, errors and miscalculations occur. Does the Minister agree that, on that basis, bearing in mind that this has been happening for several months, our Armed Forces should be able to move seamlessly into an alliance that is in a position to fight that world war? Does he believe that the investment we have put into defence in the last few months has put us in that position?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, we have made major investments. Without going into the territory of the Ministry of Defence, the Government have been strong in our commitment to our defences and our support for our NATO partners. Equally importantly, we have stood up for and strongly supported Ukraine. We have been among the leaders in military, humanitarian and economic support for Ukraine, which reflects the planning that has gone on.

However, I am sure I speak for every single noble Lord in recognising that we do not want to venture into an escalation. We have seen the dangers of that, and I fully concur with most noble Lords that a war such as the one on Ukraine can escalate very quickly, even through a missile which may have had other intentions. That could happen, or deliberate actions could happen. It is very clear that Mr Putin continues to wage this war on a sovereign nation. There is an easy fix to de-escalate: stop the war now.

[Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe (Lab)]

Could the Minister comment on the Norwegian Government’s decision to advise its people that they should take appropriate steps to prepare themselves for a nuclear attack?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

As I said earlier, I am not going to indulge in speculation. Every Government speak for their own citizens and my job is to speak for the United Kingdom Government. The primary responsibility of any Government, of any political colour, has to be, and should remain so, the security of its own citizens, first and foremost. I assure you His Majesty’s Government take that very seriously.

Human Rights: India

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Thursday 17th November 2022 Grand Committee

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, I thank all noble Lords for their contributions to what has been a very insightful debate. I will try to respond to most of the points raised and, in the usual manner, will extend courtesies on any specific questions that I am not able to answer in the time allocated. I join others in thanking the noble Lord, Lord Hussain, for tabling this debate.

Before I go any further into what is in front of me, I want to reflect on points made by my noble friends Lord Ranger and Lady Verma. A nation’s rich diversity reflects its strength—a point alluded to by the noble Lord, Lord Collins—and our country is reflective of exactly that quality. At a time when we celebrate our first Prime Minister of the Hindu faith, it is amusing for me—as someone of the Muslim faith whose heritage extends to India on my paternal and maternal sides—that in the case of our Prime Minister, who is Hindu by faith, his maternal and paternal sides extend to modern-day Pakistan, in Gujranwala. That shows the rich diversity but also the hope and opportunity that lie in the relationships and the importance of bridge building between communities, not just here in the United Kingdom but across the Indian subcontinent—an area I know well, both through my personal links and, importantly, as the Minister responsible for that region.

I agree totally with the noble Lord, Lord Collins, that here in the UK we pride ourselves on speaking out whenever we see a violation of human rights, anywhere in the world and on whatever issue. The greatest challenge we all face is when we stand up on human rights violations that are reflective not of our own values, personal beliefs or religion but those of others. That is the real test. I often say that being the Minister for Human Rights for the United Kingdom is the proudest part of my brief but also, arguably, the most challenging.

My noble friend Lady Verma talked of her strong advocacy for human rights. On a personal level, I have experienced that for well over 25 years. She has been a guardian of my personal human rights in all aspects of my life. Examples in all noble Lords’ contributions demonstrate how live we are to these important issues. I therefore align myself with the principles and values that have been a thread—a human rights golden thread, if I can put it that way—through every contribution.

As we have made clear time and again, including in our integrated review, open societies and human rights should and do remain a priority for the United Kingdom, as the noble Lords, Lord Purvis and Lord Collins, rightly pointed out. Our security and prosperity are best served by a world in which democratic societies flourish and fundamental human rights are protected and, indeed, strengthened.

I turn to India. Many are rightly proud of their country’s inclusive institutions, Governments, rich history and constitution. That is important. I have always said that when we approach the issue of human rights and seek to raise it, wherever that may be in the world, we must apply the lens of the challenges and where a country is on its human rights journey at that point in time. As we heard earlier from my noble friend Lord Ranger, who would have been in this Room 105 years ago? There would be no women and arguably no people of other faiths or people openly professing their sexuality. That shows that our own country has been on a journey when it comes to human rights. Therefore, it is right that we look at a country’s journey but also its institutions and constitutions and the protections it affords. Just as we are proud of our democracy and institutions here in the UK, I know from direct engagement with the Government of India, including on the issue of human rights, how proud they are of their constitutions and institutions as protectors and guardians of human rights.

Our values and our vibrant democracies sit at the heart of the UK-India comprehensive strategic partnership and our 2030 road map for future relations. The road map, which several noble Lords alluded to, guides our co-operation and covers all aspects of our multifaceted relationship. We set out our shared belief in the importance of democratic norms and principles, and respect for universal human rights. My right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary has underlined the importance of protecting human rights.

I assure the noble and right reverend Lord, Lord Harries, that we do raise human rights issues and the consular cases he referred to, including the case of Mr Johal. I know on how many occasions I raised that during my time as Minister for India. We need to ensure that we raise the rights of British citizens who are held. Equally, when we raise human rights we do so in a constructive and candid manner. The strength of our relationship with India allows us to do so.

We know that India is the world’s largest democracy and has long traditions, but we look to India to uphold all freedoms and rights guaranteed in its constitution, as with all democracies including ours. Indeed, that is the analysis and the point that I expect to be put about our own values and human rights here in the United Kingdom.

The United Kingdom engages with India on a range of human rights issues. Of course, we recognise the nature of the human rights situation across India. As my noble friend Lady Verma pointed out, India is not a homogenous country. It has so many religions and cultures. I will stand corrected if I am wrong, but I think there are still more Muslims in India than there are in either Pakistan or Bangladesh. That shows the rich diversity of the nation when it comes to religion. There are constitutional protections for places of worship. Indeed, the 1989 constitutional protection for places of worship stands very strongly. I assure the noble Lord, Lord Hussain, that we have a wide network through our high commission, Ministers and our network of deputy high commissions because of the nature and breadth of India. Indeed, we recently heard that India will become the most populous country in the world.

The noble Lord, Lord Collins, spoke about strengthening ties with civil society. The noble Lord, Lord Hussain, mentioned Amnesty International and other human rights groups. Only earlier this week I met with human rights groups as part of my regular engagement with them to ensure that their concerns, which are sometimes aired privately on specific issues, can be highlighted so that we can take them up constructively with Governments around the world, including the Indian Government. Recently I spoke with the high commissioner of India; human rights form a regular part of that dialogue.

As today’s debate has shown, it is clear that Kashmir is a topic close to the hearts of many. Indeed, the noble Lord, Lord Hussain, spoke very personally about his ties across the line of control. We are lucky to have 1.7 million British citizens of Indian heritage living here in the UK, and a similar number with Pakistani heritage. There is sometimes even an argument about who qualifies under which category, which perhaps shows the strong, binding nature of cultural ties between the two countries. India and Pakistan are long-standing and important friends of the United Kingdom, and we have significant links with both countries, particularly through the diaspora communities.

The Government take the situation, and the issues raised by the noble Lord, Lord Hussain, very seriously. He talked about resolutions, as did the noble Lord, Lord Collins. Our position remains exactly as before: it is for India and Pakistan to find a lasting political resolution, taking into account the wishes of the Kashmiri people. It is not for the United Kingdom to prescribe a solution or to act as a mediator. This position is not new; it has been the consistent position of successive British Governments.

We welcomed the renewal of the ceasefire along the line of control in February last year, and we encourage both sides to find lasting diplomatic solutions to maintain regional stability. At a time when people often talk about problems, I always look at the challenges we face and the role that the United Kingdom can play in terms of opportunity and hope. I know that my noble friend Lord Ranger has visited and knows this quite directly. The Kartarpur corridor provides a profound example of what can be achieved with the right intent between two Governments doing something for the right reasons.

Human rights concerns in India-administered Kashmir are raised with me, as they are about Pakistan-administered Kashmir. As I said, we raise these directly with the respective Governments of India and Pakistan. I assure noble Lords that these form part of our bilateral relationships as well.

The noble Earl, Lord Sandwich, the noble and right reverend Lord, Lord Harries, and the noble Lords, Lord Purvis and Lord Hussain, talked about human rights in negotiations and the trade agreement with India. The Government’s international obligations and commitments, including on human rights, will remain paramount when we make decisions on all trading relations. We are also clear that more trade will not come at the expense of workers or the environment.

While trade discussions continue, I assure noble Lords that as we discuss the importance of strengthening our road map, whether on trade, investment, technological co-operation or improving lives and livelihoods in India and the UK, the issue of lives and livelihoods is intrinsically tied to the whole concept of human rights. We continue to engage on an ambitious free trade agreement.

The noble and right reverend Lord, Lord Harries, talked about the Diwali agreement. There is good progress on many chapters and we will continue to discuss these issues directly. Indeed, my right honourable friend did so with External Affairs Minister Jaishankar during his recent visit to India.

There have been other areas of partnership with India over recent years, including co-operation over Covid-19 and the co-operation we have had on trade, education partnerships and climate change. Those areas will continue to be raised.

The noble Lord, Lord Hussain, raised some specific issues on the human rights report. I am proud that we produce reports on this issue. The noble Lord asked about other countries, including India. The decision on whether a country is designated in that report is based on the trajectory of change, the UK’s potential work on human rights and where we have influence. At this time, we judge that it is not appropriate to designate India in the human rights report. However, as I said—I emphasise this point—where we have concerns, we will raise them.

My noble friend Lord Ranger raised the issue of the Kashmiri Pandits. Of course, that is important. As we look at human rights issues, we need to be consistent across the piece. I assure my noble friend that those issues form part and parcel of our engagement.

This is extremely important. I am sure we will return to issues of human rights across the world—including very shortly in our next debate. I welcome our continued engagement on this issue. India matters to the United Kingdom and the United Kingdom matters to India. Our relationship with India, as democracies and friends, is built on important pillars, such as strengthening trade. We are two key democracies where the rule of law matters and we will continue to have candid, constructive exchanges on issues of human rights. That will remain an important pillar in our relationships. This matters to me and to all noble Lords who have expressed their views today. It matters to the United Kingdom and, from my engagement with our partners and friends in India, I can assure noble Lords that it matters to India as well.

[The Earl of Sandwich (CB)]

As we have a minute or two in reserve, can I just ask a factual question? The Minister cannot answer for the Department for International Trade, clearly, but it would be interesting to know how often on the present trade deal the Foreign Office has intervened. Have there been formal occasions or is it just in chance meetings through the year?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

I assure the noble Earl that on every FTA we have a very integrated approach with our colleagues in DIT. When we need to raise these issues directly, these are not chance meetings. We are quite structured in our approach, whether through diplomacy or trade.

Russia in Georgia

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Wednesday 16th November 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Harries of Pentregarth]

To ask His Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of the influence of Russia in Georgia.

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, we fully support Georgia’s sovereignty and territorial integrity, and we work closely with the Government of Georgia to strengthen their resilience with regard to malign Russian influence through our bilateral defence and security co-operation. The NATO leaders’ summit in June agreed a tailored support package for Georgia that builds on the extensive support provided to Georgia over recent years. We expect the UK to play a leading role in the framework of this additional package, supporting strategic communications and cyberdefence.

[Lord Harries of Pentregarth (CB)]

I thank the Minister very much for his Answer, but I am not sure that it fully reflects the seriousness of the current situation in Georgia. Political and economic life in Georgia, including the media, is controlled by Bidzina Ivanishvili, the multi-billionaire businessman who made his money in Russia. It is clearly documented that he still has huge assets there in the names of his relatives and business associates. This is worrying enough, but more recently there have been in the public realm 100 files of leading politicians, churchmen and diplomats, with the details of who their contacts are, who they support and any material that might be used for blackmail against them. That shows clear signs of collusion between Russian secret police and the Georgian police, the old KGB. This is a worrying situation; will the Minister ensure that the relevant bodies in the European Union are fully aware of this?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, first, I recognise the noble and right reverend Lord’s important work in support of Georgia over a number of years, not least since 2008. He raises some important issues of concern, and I will of course take them away. He spoke about sharing them with the important authorities on the ground; we do work very closely with others, including the EU. If there is more detail I can share with him, I will certainly do so.

[Lord Balfe (Con)]

My Lords, I served for six years on the Venice Commission, where we had many problems with Georgia. Will the Minister use all his influence to encourage the Georgian parties to work together? Part of the fundamental problem in Georgia has been the inability of the political parties within its Parliament to co-operate on even the most basic things, such as the election of speakers and chairmen of committees.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

I assure my noble friend that I am all for cross-party co-operation when it comes to good governance in our Parliaments. Despite our different perspectives and challenges, I think your Lordships’ House and the other place reflect that genuine desire to ensure good governance in Parliament. Of course, I take on board what my noble friend said. It is important that all parties work in the common interests of Georgia and ensure that the current occupation and annexation of these breakaway republics is addressed centrally, because this is a violation of its sovereign territory.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, I have raised with the Minister several times the threat to human rights in Georgia, particularly attacks on workers, trade unions and LGBT people. Can he tell us what steps the Government have taken to engage with civil society? As we often hear, civil society is the main guarantor of human rights when Governments fail to ensure them, so what are we doing to engage with it?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, the noble Lord knows that I agree with him totally, not just in the context of support for civil society in Georgia but generally. Civil society is core to any progressive, inclusive, functioning democracy. We are providing support in Georgia; for example, through a range of projects focused primarily on confidence-building dialogue, funded by CSF funding. That also helps Georgia take forward public administration reform, parliamentary capacity building and good governance, and includes some of the work we are doing with civil society. On the specific groups we are working with and direct engagement, if I may, I will write to the noble Lord.

[Lord Purvis of Tweed (LD)]

Georgia has reported that there will actually be some economic growth in its economy because of the influx of over 112,000 young professionals who have fled Russia. In June, the European Union gave Georgia pre-application status to move towards membership of the single market and customs union, alongside Ukraine and Moldova. Will any of the technical support that the UK is providing to Georgia enable it to move closer to the European Union economic markets?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

How Georgia chooses to move forward with the EU is very much a matter for Georgia. However, I can say that we are working very closely with our European colleagues on, first and foremost, the monitoring done within Georgia, particularly vis-à-vis the breakaway republics. Our ODA funding has also grown and that is helping Georgia take forward certain reforms that I have already alluded to. Specific UK funding is also helping it to build its cyberdefences, which, in the current climate, is extremely important.

[Lord Carlile of Berriew (CB)]

Given that Vladimir Putin is an unprincipled opportunist, can we take it that the Government are aware of the danger that the exodus into Georgia of Russians apparently wishing not to serve in the Russian forces may well include a fifth column placed there under Putin’s instructions? Will we try to ensure that such a fifth column does not do what some Russians were doing in Ukraine?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, first and foremost, on the issue of Russians fleeing forced conscription, I think that it is a recognition that the people of Russia themselves do not support what Mr Putin is doing, in his continued violation of the rights of the Ukrainian people. On the specific issue the noble Lord raises, on whatever perspectives may be taking place, and whether some coming through those borders may pose a direct threat, that is why the UK is cognisant of this. That is why we are investing in cybersecurity; I am sure that will help to build the intelligence base as we work with our Georgian partners.

[Baroness Rawlings (Con)]

My Lords, my question very much relates to that asked by the noble Lord, Lord Carlile. Do we still have troops or observers on the South Ossetia-Georgia border, which was very much being controlled by Russians on my last visit? I wonder how much has changed since the war with Ukraine.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, on my noble friend’s final point, there has of course been a refocus on the occupation and break away of the republics of South Ossetia and Abkhazia. That shows that Russia, back in 2008, had malign influence, which, as well as the territorial significance of the two breakaway republics, demonstrates what Russia’s intent was both in Georgia and indeed in Crimea and Ukraine. On the specific issues, the EU monitoring mission is in Georgia and tracks the breakaway regions. We work together with our NATO allies: there is a liaison office in Tbilisi, and the UK, along with Romania, will take over as the point embassy in Tbilisi from January 2023.

[The Lord Bishop of Leeds]

My Lords, referring back to the original Question, have the Government made any assessment of how corrupt wealth is being laundered to get around sanctions in Russia by pushing the money through places such as Georgia?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, with the implementation of our sanctions policy, we are acutely aware that there will be attempts to circumvent measures taken on both individuals and organisations. Of course, we work with our key partners, including the European Union, to ensure that once sanctions are imposed, they are applied universally. Georgia itself, as the right reverend Prelate will know, has applied to become a member of the European Union, and these kinds of things are also assessed in its reporting. Whether it is here in London or indeed in Tbilisi or elsewhere in the world, we must always remain vigilant towards those seeking to circumvent sanctions policy or, indeed, launder money or illicit finance.

[Lord Wallace of Saltaire (LD)]

My Lords, does the Minister accept that the Government should now make it clearer to the British public that the outcome of the Ukraine conflict has implications for the future of Georgia, Moldova and the various bubbling conflicts in the Balkans, where Russian influence in Serbia and Serbian Bosnia has been very strong? The larger implications of any sort of outcome in Ukraine are not really well understood by our own public. The Government need to lead in informing them.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

The noble Lord has valuable insights on these matters and I agree with him. The situation in Transnistria and Moldova is of extreme concern to us, particularly with the Russian influence and presence there. Equally, with South Ossetia and Abkhazia, the influence remains very clear. We need an outcome where Russia withdraws from the occupied areas of Ukraine and where the breakaway republics are allowed to rejoin the sovereign territory of Georgia. Of course, regarding Transnistria—Moldova is a very small country; I have seen the challenges it faces quite directly in discussions that I have had—we need to ensure that Moldova is equally assured of its territorial sovereignty and integrity.

Tigray Province: Ceasefire Agreement

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Tuesday 15th November 2022 Lords Chamber

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, I join all other noble Lords in thanking the noble Lord, Lord Browne, for tabling this timely debate and for his powerful introduction. I have been listening very carefully and making my own notes as well as getting some answers and helpful insights from the Box, but it is one of those debates where nothing has been said that I disagree with.

This is important for two reasons. The noble Lord, Lord Boateng, poignantly reminded us about the lessons of history and the high dose of humility that is required when we look at resolving or preventing conflict. I assure him that we are fully behind the peace process and are working with both the UN and the African Union. Like others, I pay particular tribute to the African Union and its envoy, former President Obasanjo, to former Kenyan President Kenyatta—I personally know him and his commitment very well—and former South African Deputy President Mlambo for their efforts in this.

As the noble Lord, Lord Browne, reminded us, this is a crucial moment for Ethiopia. He asked about hope and optimism. They are important ingredients when a peace agreement is signed. The United States has made its view known, and I will always attach cautious optimism. However, as the noble Lords, Lord Collins and Lord Boateng, reminded us, hope can very quickly turn to fear, and peace can very quickly turn to conflict, as we have tragically seen in Ethiopia: there have been two years of brutal conflict in northern Ethiopia which has killed thousands on the battlefield and visited atrocious human rights abuses and violations, as the noble Lord, Lord Alton, reminded us.

On the important issue of conflict-related sexual violence, it is shocking and abhorrent that in any conflict in 2022, whether in Tigray or in Ukraine, violence is used as a weapon of war, particularly against young girls and women. The noble Lords, Lord Collins and Lord Purvis, referred to testimonies. I know, not just from those who take the testimonies, that when you sit in front of a survivor of sexual violence, it is important that you invest in the testimony they are relaying. That is why I am really proud of the fact that we have played a key role, through the UN, in the launch of the Murad code, which does exactly that—working with Nadia Murad, herself a survivor of sexual violence, to ensure that we protect testimonies to allow justice. As the noble Lord, Lord Alton, said, we must have justice; peace without justice is no peace at all.

The peace agreement signed by the Ethiopian Government and the Tigray People’s Liberation Front on 2 November is—I say cautiously—a momentous opportunity to end this terrible conflict for good, and the choice is for peace. As all noble Lords reminded us, we have seen a further agreement. The noble Lord, Lord Browne, mentioned the fact that we have seen the first trucks, which are providing 40 tonnes of essential medical and surgical support, rolling through—I too received that report in advance of the debate. I think we all acknowledge and welcome that. While this is the first step, as the noble Lord, Lord Collins, said, it is important that the United Kingdom comes together with our international partners, Ethiopia, the African Union, the UN and all bodies to ensure that the focus and momentum is sustained.

This agreement provides for a permanent cessation of hostilities, the disarmament and demobilisation of Tigrayan forces, the urgent provision of humanitarian aid and the restoration of services across Tigray. I will try, during the course of my contribution, to answer some of the specific questions that the noble Lord, Lord Purvis, relayed, including on financing. However, as he asked, in the interests of both time and ensuring I give him the correct information I will also write to all noble Lords.

The agreement also provides for the restoration of the constitutional order, the presence of federal authorities within Tigray and the deployment of the Ethiopian military along international borders, safeguarding Ethiopian territorial integrity—a point made very powerfully by the noble Lord, Lord Boateng. This is a comprehensive list of measures to bring about a peaceful and lasting end to the conflict. It is what we have called for throughout the conflict. As the noble Lord, Lord Collins, said, it is of course just the start of the process. It will require hard work, leadership and sustained international support; I agree with all noble Lords on that point.

We are encouraged by the early signs. We believe that fighting between Ethiopian government forces and the TPLF has stopped. As we have heard, discussions on the implementation of the agreement are under way and continue in Nairobi, under the stewardship of the African Union. So far, generally speaking, the timelines set out in the peace agreement have been met. We also welcome the recent announcement on the renewal of UN flights and the reopening of land routes into Tigray.

As the Question tabled by the noble Lord, Lord Browne, recognises, it is also essential to monitor the ceasefire and implement the agreement if this is to be a lasting peace. Under the terms of the agreement, the African Union will chair a monitoring committee comprising representatives from the Ethiopian Government, the TPLF and the Intergovernmental Authority on Development—IGAD—and a team of African experts will assist them. Of course, I will update noble Lords on what the African Union and other key bodies ask of us, and indeed other partners.

As noble Lords have said, including the noble Lord, Lord Collins, it is right that this is an African-led mechanism. We respect that, but I assure noble Lords that the United Kingdom, along with other partners, stands ready to assist the African Union, and indeed the Ethiopian Government. The agreement explicitly calls on international partners to support this to help rebuild infrastructure. The noble Baroness, Lady Jones, through her own insight and experience, drew an important focus on to this, because supporting economic recovery is also a key part of ensuring sustainable peace.

Before the conflict, our development partnership with Ethiopia had lifted millions of people out of poverty, as the noble Lords, Lord Boateng, Lord Collins and Lord Purvis, mentioned. It had helped Ethiopia become one of the world’s fastest-growing economies. Our aim is to help Ethiopia return to that.

The noble Lord, Lord Browne, made some specific points about how we can help the process, and on the important issue of demining. The Halo Trust is well known to me. I am a big supporter of the Halo Trust. I will certainly take back the practical and helpful points that the noble Lord, Lord Browne, made and ensure that they are part and parcel of our discussions as we seek to stand ready to support. We are also speaking to our partners in the international community and to the Ethiopian Government to agree how we can collectively support the implementation of the agreement.

On the issue mentioned by the noble Baroness, Lady Jones, we will encourage international financial institutions to support Ethiopia’s recovery, provided that progress on the peace process is sustained. That is an important point. The noble Lord, Lord Purvis, asked about IMF support. We will be encouraging IFIs to step up in support, but the key point is that this peace agreement must be sustained. As we all acknowledge, this support is needed urgently. We are reminded of the numbers involved, with the UN estimating that 13 million people in northern Ethiopia require assistance. Millions in Tigray have been beyond the reach of humanitarian agencies since August, and without access to essential services for more than a year. My colleague the former Minister for Development pressed for unfettered humanitarian access in her meeting with the Ethiopian Deputy Prime Minister on 22 September in the margins of the UN General Assembly. She did so again on 19 October during a visit to Ethiopia.

We welcome the peace agreement’s commitment to expedite the provision of humanitarian aid into Tigray and to restore essential services, but the conflict in the north is not the only cause for concern. As the noble Lord, Lord Purvis, reminded us, with four seasons of failed rains leading to a devastating drought in the south, around 30 million people in Ethiopia need food and nutrition assistance. This is one of the largest humanitarian crises in the world. We have talked about other regions. As the former Minister for Development saw in October, the need in Afar is acute.

The noble Lord, Lord Purvis, asked about UK support. We have allocated nearly £90 million to support crisis-affected communities across Ethiopia, including in the Tigray, Afar, Amhara, Oromia and Somali regions, and we will announce further humanitarian funding. I recognise what the noble Lord, Lord Boateng, said: despite difficult challenges, it is important that we seek to provide support.

The noble Lord, Lord Browne, asked about foreign forces. Eritrean forces have fought there in large numbers alongside the Ethiopian Government. This has fuelled the conflict and there have been many credible reports, as the noble Lord, Lord Alton, and others noted, that Eritrean forces have committed terrible abuses and violations of human rights, as have others. All parties to the conflict need to be held to account. We have consistently called on Eritrea to withdraw its troops from Ethiopia, but those confirmations still need to be verified and acted on.

I am conscious of time. On the CRSV element specifically, in northern Ethiopia the United Kingdom has provided £4 million of support. In October we announced a further £14 million of assistance for 150,000 women. I will give some stats: 11,444 children and adolescents will be accessing community-based maternal health and psychosocial support; 9,406 women, girls and boys will be accessing gender-based violence prevention and risk mitigation response interventions. As I have said already, I will write to noble Lords with a breakdown of what has and is being spent.

I add one small caveat: because of the lack of access from a humanitarian standpoint, the assessments, even for the UN and agencies such as UNICEF, have been extremely difficult, especially going back 12 or 18 months. However, as all noble Lords have said, this is a moment of cautious optimism.

The noble Lord, Lord Alton, raised a number of points on addressing conflict and accountability. I will write to him on his specific questions, including on the report. I know that under normal circumstances we do not normally publish such reports, but I will follow up in writing to the noble Lord.

I thank the noble Lord, Lord Browne, for securing this debate. We are at the beginning of the process. We have had briefings for Members of your Lordships’ House on various issues of both interest and importance. As the situation unravels, and as we hope the peace agreement is sustained and access given, I commit that I will not just look to update the House in the normal way but to arrange appropriate briefings with key officials at the FCDO so that noble Lords have a full awareness of and insight into what is happening. Of course, I welcome the valuable insights into practicalities and experiences on the ground, which I hope will formulate our view, support and programming to help Ethiopia stand up, once again, as a united state in the interest of all its communities.

House adjourned at 9.21 pm.

Iran: Women Protesters

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Wednesday 9th November 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Mann]

To ask His Majesty’s Government what representations they have made to the Government of Iran about the treatment of women protesters in that country.

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, the death of Mahsa Amini and all those who have since lost their lives standing up to the authorities in Iran is, simply put, a tragedy. We stand in absolute solidarity with, and in awe of, the extraordinary bravery shown by Iranian women and girls. The Iranian Government must now listen to their people. We have made our views clear to Iran in the strongest terms; most recently, I spoke to Iran’s representative here in the UK on 26 October. We have robustly condemned Iran’s crackdown on protestors, including at the UN Human Rights Council, the Security Council and the General Assembly, and we have sanctioned the morality police and two of its leaders, as well as five other officials responsible for human rights violations. Our message is clear: Iran must change course—and change course now.

[Lord Mann (Non-Afl)]

Will we take advantage of the opportunity of England and Wales playing Iran in the FIFA World Cup to celebrate the warmth and vibrancy of the Iranian people, who are browbeaten, and worse, into living a monochrome existence by a regime terrified of its own people?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

I agree that the World Cup provides an opportunity to celebrate. The fact that Iran is in the same group as two of the home nations also reflects the fact that football is a real celebration. In Iran itself, we have seen a real strength and courage, and a real vision of what the people of Iran want. As we have said consistently across the years, our fight is not with the Iranian people. Iran has a rich culture with incredible people, and it is about time that the Iranian Government recognised the strength of their own people as well.

[Lord Polak (Con)]

My Lords, I am the only Member of your Lordships’ House who has been blacklisted by the Iranian regime, which is a badge of honour that I wear with pride. Two weeks ago, I asked two questions: why have we not proscribed the Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps and why have we not taken a lead at the United Nations to ensure that Iran is immediately suspended and removed as a member of the Commission on the Status of Women? I now add a third question: why, two weeks later, has the FCDO not taken any action? Why are we quick to speak and condemn, but oh so slow to take meaningful action?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, first, I pay tribute to my noble friend’s work in this regard. On his first question, on the IRGC, of course it is a despicable organisation and we have continued to see that that is the case. Of course, I know the strength of feeling in your Lordships’ House and, as I cannot speak specifically to any future proscription, I note the strength of feeling, which very much reflects my own personal views in this respect.

On the issue of the CSW, I apologise—that is something that the FCDO has specifically led on. I assure my noble friend that in the past two weeks—how can I put it?—a change has yet again been part of government, and we have seen a new Prime Minister. Nevertheless, I assure my noble friend that on the CSW I directed officials immediately, and we are working very closely, hand in glove, with the United States and other partners to ensure the removal of Iran from the United Nations Commission on the Status of Women. It cannot be right that Iran continues to be part of that body.

[Lord Purvis of Tweed (LD)]

My Lords, the young women of Iran are an inspiration, but the Iranian regime is profiting from additional oil sales and it was confirmed this week that a major buyer of Iranian oil is India. At the very same time, the UK is offering wider market access to the very financing institutions that are purchasing this oil, circumventing UN sanctions. Does the Minister agree that we are not doing the women of Iran a service if we are turning a blind eye to our friends who are supporting the regime by making it more profitable?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I assure the noble Lord that we are not turning a blind eye, whether on the issue of Iran or the issue of Ukraine. There are countries, partners and friends of ours that have different perspectives. I cannot speak to their foreign policy, but I can assure the noble Lord that we are robust in putting to them the United Kingdom’s position, and our position on Iran is of course very clear.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, I recognise what the Government have been doing, particularly at the United Nations, and I recognise what we have been doing Government to Government. However, the real issue here is how we support those very people who are on the street, how we support civil society and how we amplify those voices. Faith leaders need to be heard across the board, as do civil society organisations globally. Can the Minister assure us that we are supporting those organisations so that it is the people’s voices that are heard, not simply those of Governments?

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

I can give the noble Lord that assurance. I lead on the freedom of religion or belief, and indeed on engagement with civil society, and the noble Lord knows how important and central they are to my thinking and policy-making. On Iran specifically, I am looking to schedule a meeting with some of the key faith leaders here. What is being done on the ground there is not about religion; it is pure abuse of the rights of women and it must stop.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, should we not also note that not only is Iran persecuting its own people, especially women, it is also supplying drones that are destroying the infrastructure of the Ukrainian people? Has my noble friend communicated that to the Iranian envoy in this country?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I assure my noble friend that we have been very robust. He raises a very important issue and colleagues in both the FCDO and the Ministry of Defence have made that case very powerfully.

[Baroness Chakrabarti (Lab)]

My Lords, the Minister is a strong and sincere advocate for human rights at home and across the world. Just yesterday, a young woman reporter covering a protest for her media outlet was detained by the police for seven hours without interview before being released. That happened not in Iran but on the M25. Is it really time to be increasing police powers and scrapping our Human Rights Act?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I speak both for the Government and the FCDO. I thank the noble Baroness for her kind remarks about me personally. The issue of media freedom both at home and abroad is an important one. The United Kingdom has led on this; indeed, I was in Vienna on Friday discussing this very issue of protection of journalists. I do not know the full details of that specific case, but I am sure that my colleagues in the Home Office will have noted it and I will ensure that the noble Baroness gets a reply in that respect.

[The Lord Bishop of Durham]

To follow up on that, it was reported earlier this week that the lives of two British-Iranian journalists were at risk due to lethal threats from Iran following their coverage of the protests for the news channel Iran International. Will the Government take steps to condemn these threats and encourage the freedom of the press in Iran?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, we will and I do so now.

[Baroness Jones of Moulsecoomb (GP)]

My Lords, the Minister mentioned that sanctions had been put on some of the morality police and others. What were those sanctions? Could there not be sanctions on much higher-profile people, such as the ruling caste?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, the noble Baroness rightly raises the issue of sanctions. The sanctions are consistent in their application in terms of travel bans, finances and bank accounts held. She will know that I cannot speculate on future sanctions policy, but I assure her that we are considering very carefully every element and tool at our disposal in our response to Iran.