UK Marine Policy Statement

Caroline Spelman Excerpts

Friday 18th March 2011 Written Statements

[The Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Mrs Caroline Spelman)]

The Department for Environment Food and Rural Affairs and the devolved Administrations are publishing the UK Marine Policy Statement (MPS). I am placing copies in the House Libraries.

The MPS forms a key element of the coalition Government’s programme for implementing the Marine and Coastal Access Act 2009 (the Act). The MPS is UK-wide and has been developed jointly with officials in the devolved Administrations. The Act provides for the introduction of marine planning in UK waters for the first time and the MPS is the first step in this new marine planning system.

The MPS is defined by the requirements placed on it by the Act with the overall aim of contributing to the achievement of sustainable development. The MPS is the decision-making framework for the UK marine area and guides the development of marine plans and marine licensing decisions across the UK. The aim of the MPS is to ensure the necessary consistency and coherence across the UK in the way we manage our seas, while providing the flexibility for marine plans to reflect the characteristics and needs of different marine areas. The MPS therefore covers all major activities and sectors in our seas from renewable energy to nature conservation and from fishing to tourism. It sets the policy context and direction in each of these areas and the considerations that must be given to each activity in the development of marine plans or when decisions that may affect the marine area are taken. By bringing together the wealth of policy objectives for the marine area, and by setting out in one place the breadth of the legislation that exists for the marine environment, the MPS will provide clarity for regulators, developers and all those with an interest in our marine environment, a clarity which will be built on with the development and adoption of marine plans.

The draft MPS was laid in Parliament on 21 July 2010 and the final version takes on board comments made during parliamentary scrutiny. In accordance with the Act, we have produced a document summarising the differences between the draft consultation version of the MPS and the final version being published today.

The MPS was developed with an appraisal of sustainability (incorporating a strategic environmental assessment). A post-adoption statement has been published in accordance with the strategic environmental assessment (SEA) directive explaining how sustainability considerations have been integrated into the MPS. In addition to these documents, the MPS is supported by a habitats regulations assessment, an equality impact assessment screening report and an impact assessment. The documents have taken into account comments from stakeholders, especially during public consultation last year.

Published copies of the MPS, the post-adoption statement and the document summarising the differences between the draft and final versions of the MPS will be placed in the House Libraries. Electronic copies of these documents are available of the official documents website: http://www.official-documents.gov.uk/. The other documents can be found on the DEFRA website: www.defra.gov.uk.

My Department also published a description of the marine planning system for England. This document, together with the MPS, represents a package of action that the Government are taking to improve the management of our seas.

Oral Answers to Questions

Caroline Spelman Excerpts

Thursday 17th March 2011 Commons Chamber

[Miss Anne McIntosh (Thirsk and Malton) (Con)]

1. What representations she has received on the report of the uplands policy review.

[The Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Mrs Caroline Spelman)]

I begin by informing the House that I have written to the Japanese Environment Minister, Mr Matsumoto, with whom I spent a great deal of time negotiating in Nagoya, to express our sincerest condolences. As the House would expect, I have also offered the services of my Department in respect of technical expertise on flood recovery, air and water quality and radiological decontamination.

I thank my hon. Friend and the Select Committee on Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, which she chairs, for highlighting the importance of the uplands. I have received numerous positive reactions from a wide range of stakeholders to the conclusions of the uplands policy review, which I announced last week.

[Miss McIntosh]

May I share in the Secretary of State’s expression of condolences and thank her for writing to offer the services of her Department? I also thank her for her answer.

The uplands are the jewel in our farming crown, but the continuation of active farming needs to be encouraged, particularly the keeping of livestock. My right hon. Friend will be aware of the difficulties that tenant farmers are currently suffering. Will she come up with some positive measures in the policy review to encourage them to maintain livestock in the uplands?

[Mrs Spelman]

We feel very strongly about the value and potential of our uplands, which have been overlooked for too long. That is why, as a new Government, we have prioritised our review of uplands policy. Our intention is to support and encourage all hill farmers to become more competitive, and we have made available up to £6 million a year more for environmental stewardship schemes. When I launched the review, I impressed on landowners that they should be constructive when they receive requests from tenants to participate in such schemes.

[Helen Goodman (Bishop Auckland) (Lab)]

The uplands review obviously came out of the excellent report produced by the Commission for Rural Communities last summer. Will the Secretary of State explain why she has attempted to frustrate the clearly expressed will of the other place by cutting the CRC’s budget by some 90%?

[Mrs Spelman]

It is not a question of frustrating the will of the other place. There has been a change of Government, and the two parties that together form the Government have Members of Parliament who mostly have rural constituencies. It is thus easier for us to champion rural causes, as in our uplands policy review. The hon. Lady’s Government had 13 years in which to do something about the uplands, but it has taken a change of Government to achieve that.

[Dr Daniel Poulter (Central Suffolk and North Ipswich) (Con)]

2. What recent representations she has received on the profitability of the pig farming sector.

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[David T. C. Davies (Monmouth) (Con)]

7. What recent discussions she has had on the introduction of a prohibition on battery cages for laying hens.

[The Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Mrs Caroline Spelman)]

At the Agriculture and Fisheries Council on 21 February, some member states sought more time to implement the ban on conventional cages, which is coming into force on 1 January 2012. I was the first Minister to emphasise that any delay would be grossly unfair to egg producers in the UK and other member states that have made significant investments to adapt and enrich cages. The Government will continue to play a full part in EU discussions to find a practical solution.

[Henry Smith]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for that answer and for her excellent efforts. Did those discussions also include the importation of derived products into this country?

[Mrs Spelman]

Yes, I can give my hon. Friend that assurance. It is important that we are clear about the provenance of liquid-egg and dried-egg products. Many farmers in the European Union have made the investment to improve the welfare of laying hens, and therefore the deadline has to be respected.

[David T. C. Davies]

The Minister will be aware that many farmers in my constituency of Monmouth have worked extremely hard to comply with that legislation. I am grateful to her for saying that it would be unfair if other EU countries do not, but can she say what would happen if other countries, including new entrants, were exempt from that legislation?

[Mrs Spelman]

I am not talking about exemption. Obviously the Commission can threaten infraction proceedings against member states whose egg producers are non-compliant, but in my view that will not be enough. One of the options that we have suggested to the Commission is an intra-Community trade ban, which would restrict the sale of eggs that continued to be produced from conventional cages after the deadline had expired.

[Mr Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op)]

Will the right hon. Lady show some caution on this? Those of us who are passionate about animal welfare remember when this country moved ahead on protecting young calves reared for veal from disgraceful conditions. Veal in this country is now well produced. The young animals have a decent life, but most of them are killed at birth, which means that we import badly produced veal from France.

[Mrs Spelman]

Veal is not the same thing as eggs. None the less, the sentiment expressed in the hon. Gentleman’s question is important. The point is that member states and producers have known for 10 years that the change would come, and the accession countries seeking to join the Union knew full well before they entered that those were the welfare standards that would apply.

[Thomas Docherty (Dunfermline and West Fife) (Lab)]

Given the Secretary of State’s remarks, can she clarify whether she will be proposing a ban on shell, liquid and powdered egg from countries such as Poland that will not meet the deadline, and if so, will she also be banning products such as quiche and cakes from those countries?

[Mrs Spelman]

I can give the hon. Gentleman an assurance that the Commission is looking at this. He might be interested to know that the Minister of State and the Commission will both appear before the Select Committee on Environment, Food and Rural Affairs on 22 March, when there will be ample opportunity to debate in detail the application of measures to ensure that the deadline is respected.

[Rehman Chishti (Gillingham and Rainham) (Con)]

According to the European Commission’s social and economic report, a free-range egg costs just 2p more to produce than a battery egg. Does the Minister agree that this is a price worth paying for animal welfare?

[Mrs Spelman]

It is absolutely clear that the welfare of laying hens is improved by investment in enriched cages. However, it is also true that many consumers enjoy the choice of free-range eggs, and those choices should continue to exist.

[Laura Sandys (South Thanet) (Con)]

8. What measures her Department is taking to ensure its preparedness to respond to major flooding incidents.

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[Mr Peter Bone (Wellingborough) (Con)]

14. What responsibilities she has for the Government’s policies on climate change.

[The Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Mrs Caroline Spelman)]

DEFRA leads on climate change adaptation in England and on engagement with the EU on adaptation. DEFRA works to reduce emissions domestically in the areas for which we have responsibility and also works across Whitehall to ensure that progress on mitigation is achieved in a sustainable way.

[Mr Bone]

The Prime Minister is keen on smaller and more efficient government. If the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills were to take back responsibility for energy, would the Secretary of State think it appropriate for her Department to take back the rest of the climate change responsibilities, because then we could get rid of a whole Department?

[Mrs Spelman]

If we are talking about efficiency, I can tell my hon. Friend that in my experience, reorganisation—including the attempted reorganisation of local government by the last Administration—is not always the most efficient thing to do.

[Mark Lazarowicz (Edinburgh North and Leith) (Lab/Co-op)]

The Secretary of State will know of the growing fear that, in the European Union and elsewhere, the understandable increasing use of biofuels is having a distorting effect on the food market, and particularly on food prices for some of the world’s poor. I do not want to make any assumptions about the implications of the tragic events in Japan, but it is clear that they might have implications for the energy market and biofuel prices. What is the Government’s current policy on biofuels at European level?

[Mrs Spelman]

If we are to increase the amount of renewable energy that we secure and reduce our dependence on fossil fuels, it is important for renewable energy from biomass to be in the mix. However, I agree with the hon. Gentleman that, faced with the challenge of food security, we must be careful to ensure that prime, productive agricultural land is there to provide the food that we are so obviously going to need.

[Gavin Shuker (Luton South) (Lab/Co-op)]

DEFRA has said that it is tackling climate change through its new strategy, contained in the document “Mainstreaming sustainable development”. The seven-page document, which was snuck out the night before the Government abolished the Sustainable Development Commission, has been attacked by the president of the National Farmers Union and slated by Jonathon Porritt, who said that it was

“without a doubt the most disgraceful government document relating to Sustainable Development”

that he had ever seen. How is the mainstreaming going?

[Mrs Spelman]

First, let me welcome the hon. Gentleman to his new position. I hope that he will convey our thanks to his predecessor for the role that he played.

Perhaps we could start off on a slightly better footing. We made a decision, as a Government, to mainstream sustainable development, and there is clear evidence from the business plans of the Government Departments that it has been mainstreamed. In addition, I have asked the hon. Gentleman’s colleague the Chairman of the Environmental Audit Committee, the hon. Member for Stoke-on-Trent North (Joan Walley), to hold Departments to account for the sustainable development that is mainstreamed into their business plans. DEFRA will continue to perform its role of scrutinising new policy on sustainable development. However, mainstreaming is an obvious step forward from the position when the hon. Gentleman’s party was in power, when sustainable development was outside the remit of Government and in the hands of an arm’s length body.

[Julian Sturdy (York Outer) (Con)]

15. What recent discussions she has had on reform of the common agricultural policy; and if she will make a statement.

[The Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Mrs Caroline Spelman)]

At this precise moment Lord Henley is attending the Agriculture Council, representing the United Kingdom. I hope Members will appreciate the presence of a full team of House of Commons Ministers here to answer oral questions. However, I have spent two full days this week in Brussels, where the Environment Council discussed CAP reform. I met Members of the European Parliament—including the officers and rapporteur of the Agriculture Committee —to discuss CAP reform, as the European Parliament has the power of co-decision.

[Julian Sturdy]

Let me begin by drawing Members’ attention to my declaration of interest.

Will the Secretary of State confirm that the negotiating position that she intends to take on CAP reform is different from that of the last Government, and that food security is at the heart of all decision-making processes?

[Mrs Spelman]

Yes, I can confirm a change from the traditional stance taken by the last Government. Calling for direct payments to end forthwith was unrealistic. Our farmers need those direct payments at the moment, although I can envisage a time when, given rising food prices, they may not be necessary. The new, more realistic position means that we are a player at the negotiating table, part of an important alliance of member states that want CAP reform so that we can confront the serious challenges presented by the need for food security and by climate change.

[Kerry McCarthy (Bristol East) (Lab)]

According to farmsubsidy.org, the number of CAP millionaires rose by 20% in 2009 to 1,212, and they pocketed a total of €4.9 billion. Does the Secretary of State agree with those who say that there should be a cap—if Members will excuse the pun—on maximum payments to individual recipients, and that there should be far more transparency across Europe in relation to who is receiving such payments?

[Mrs Spelman]

We are calling for a substantial reduction in single farm payments, but we do not share the Commission’s view that a cap should be introduced. The capping of farms whose size made them eligible would result in the fragmentation of farm structures, which would prevent agriculture from becoming more competitive and market-oriented.

[Mary Creagh (Wakefield) (Lab)]

The CAP has two key roles: ensuring security of food supply and environmental management. On 17 December, The Daily Telegraph reported a secret stitch-up between the Prime Minister and President Sarkozy of France: no reform of the CAP in return for French support for the British rebate. Yet the right hon. Lady the Secretary of State told the Oxford farming conference in January:

“Now is the time to make very significant progress towards reducing our reliance on direct payments”,

but her colleague the Farming Minister, the right hon. Member for South East Cambridgeshire (Mr Paice), contradicted her in the Farmers Guardian saying:

“Farming could not survive without direct payments…we will be suggesting a long, long transition from the current CAP system.”

We know the Prime Minister has full confidence in all his Cabinet Ministers, but who is in charge of CAP negotiations?

[Mrs Spelman]

I think the hon. Lady should rely a little less on speculation reported in newspapers. She has been a politician for long enough to know that we should take what we read in the papers with a pinch of salt. She obviously was not listening when I very clearly set out our position. Her Government’s position on the CAP over their 13-year period in office was, frankly, not credible: they suggested that direct payments should end immediately. If the hon. Lady does not know enough about farming in this country to know that farmers cannot manage at this point in time without their direct payments, she has a lot of learning to do. Our new position is much more realistic: it is to look forward to the time when subvention will not be required, while in the intervening period helping the industry to adapt so that it is more competitive and market-oriented.

[Mary Creagh]

OECD reports show that UK food prices have risen by more than 6% in the last year, and families across the country are feeling the pain. The Foresight report says we need to increase production not just to feed the UK, but to meet growing demand for food across the world. The Environment Secretary told her officials she wanted to be briefed on the price of a loaf of bread. Can she tell the House by how much the price of a loaf has gone up in the last six months, and why does her newly published sustainable development strategy make no mention at all of the CAP, food or farming?

[Mrs Spelman]

I am sure the hon. Lady does the household shopping in the same way that I do, and it is interesting that the hike in world food prices has not yet fully translated through into the cost of the grocery bill. This issue is a concern not only in the UK, but in other countries. It was also a concern to her Government during the last price hike in 2008. She should also be concerned about the farm-gate price of food: farming input costs are rising, making it extremely difficult for farmers to provide us with food at a reasonable price. That is one of the reasons why we made it a priority in our business plan to support British food and farming in a way that her Government did not.

[Mr Speaker]

I am grateful to the Secretary of State for that answer. I call Simon Kirby. He is not here. I therefore call Yvonne Fovargue.

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[Neil Parish (Tiverton and Honiton) (Con)]

T1. If she will make a statement on her departmental responsibilities.

[The Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Mrs Caroline Spelman)]

My Department takes responsibility for safeguarding the environment, supporting farmers and strengthening the green economy. In that regard, I draw attention to the written statement I have laid today, confirming the details of the independent panel to advise on the future direction of forestry and woodland policy. The panel will be chaired by the Right Reverend James Jones, the Bishop of Liverpool, and will be made up of leading experts in the field of conservation and woodland management, along with other representatives of the broad range of issues associated with forestry in England, such as access and timber supply.

[Neil Parish]

I very much welcome the Secretary of State’s statement on setting up this panel on forests. She talked about food prices rising, but one of the great problems is that the money is not going back to the farmers—too much is being taken out by the supermarkets and others. I know that the Business Secretary has to deliver this, but when is he going to put the grocery adjudicator in place?

[Mrs Spelman]

On 17 February, the Under-Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills, my hon. Friend the Member for Kingston and Surbiton (Mr Davey) indicated during his Department’s questions that he would publish the relevant Bill in April. Obviously, Parliament is in recess for a significant amount of that month, but the Bill will be published some time around Easter.

[Mary Creagh (Wakefield) (Lab)]

I welcome the production of the forestry panel, but the trees are not yet out of the woods. This Sunday, thousands of people will gather in forests across the country to keep up the pressure on the Government to abandon their sale of 100,000 acres of England’s forests. People will be asking me in Dalby forest why their local organisations have been excluded from this panel. What should I tell them?

[Mrs Spelman]

I am delighted to tell the hon. Lady that the independent panel will hold its meetings in different parts of England, as was the original intention with the consultation, to come to people who have concerns about forests. A huge number of organisations—more than 70—applied to go on the panel, which will engage them all by seeking information, views and evidence from them all so that everyone feels involved.

[Claire Perry (Devizes) (Con)]

T2. May I return to the topic of the difficulties faced by pig farmers, which are particularly acute in my constituency? Is the Minister aware of the answer given by the Minister for the Armed Forces to my recent written question showing that under the previous Government less than 1% of the bacon served to our armed forces was British? Does he agree that if we are to do what we say as a Government and help British farmers, we should put our money where our mouth is and encourage the public sector to buy British?

--- Later in debate ---

[Dr Alan Whitehead (Southampton, Test) (Lab)]

This morning, the Secretary of State repeated her suggestion that the Environmental Audit Committee might take over the functions of the Sustainable Development Commission, which she has abolished, as a watchdog on sustainable development. Does she recognise that that will be a complete fantasy unless resources and organisation are fundamentally addressed? What efforts has she made to get resources for the EAC so that it can perform that role?

[Mrs Spelman]

The hon. Gentleman might have misunderstood what I said. There is a four-pronged approach to mainstreaming sustainable development, in which the Environmental Audit Committee might, I suggested, play the role of holding Secretaries of State to account in the way that Select Committees regularly do. Although the Select Committees are bodies of Parliament rather than Government, I have written to the Chair of the Public Accounts Committee to ask whether some of the 700 auditors in the National Audit Office, which comes under her jurisdiction, might be released to help the Environmental Audit Committee in that role.

[Mr Speaker]

I am grateful to the Secretary of State.

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[Tom Blenkinsop (Middlesbrough South and East Cleveland) (Lab)]

Does the Secretary of State believe that reducing funding by nearly a third to the national parks, such as the North York Moors national park in my constituency, is good for promoting tourism and helps small and medium-sized businesses in Guisborough and east Cleveland?

[Mrs Spelman]

I can give the hon. Gentleman an assurance. I visited the Lake District national park last week as part of launching the uplands policy and the park authority expressed itself quite capable of making savings, which are pro rata across the Department because we have to repair the finances after what was left behind by his Government. I am therefore confident that it can protect the front line while making savings in the back office. That park, in conjunction with many national parks, is setting about doing that constructively.

[Mr Speaker]

I call Mr Douglas Carswell. He is not here.

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[Mark Lazarowicz (Edinburgh North and Leith) (Lab/Co-op)]

At first sight, the independent panel on forestry includes three people who represent landowning or industry forestry interests but does not include anyone who represents the trade unions or the people who work in that area. The Institute of Chartered Foresters is represented, but that is very much a specialist interest. Is it not an omission not to have a trade union represented on the panel?

[Mrs Spelman]

When I made my statement on this matter in the House, I heeded very carefully the point that was made by Opposition Members that those who work in the forests ought to be represented on the panel. That is why Shireen Chambers of the Institute of Chartered Foresters will be on it. The panellists are there not as delegates but as representatives to look at the broad range of issues concerning forestry and woodland in England.

[Robert Halfon (Harlow) (Con)]

T9. Epping forest has 20% of all Travellers pitches in the east of England, over 80% of which are in Nazeing or Roydon in my constituency. Can the Minister reassure my constituents that local communities will now be free to choose how many Travellers pitches they accept rather than having them imposed from Whitehall?

[Mrs Spelman]

This is a matter principally for the Department for Communities and Local Government, which I know is striving to find a balanced solution for both the settled and the travelling communities. I have sympathy with my hon. Friend, as I also have to deal with this issue in my constituency. The abolition of regional spatial strategies puts an end to the top-down provision of sites in favour of local solutions to provide the authorised sites that the travelling community needs.

[Jim Fitzpatrick (Poplar and Limehouse) (Lab)]

Yesterday, there was a march on City hall by residents of Poplar and Limehouse who are very concerned about the possible loss of King Edward Memorial park due to the necessary building of the Thames tideway tunnel. Can the Secretary of State or one of her Ministers reassure me and my constituents that just as DEFRA will keep an eye on costs, as outlined on its website, it will also keep a conscious eye on the need to protect that precious open space, which is much loved by thousands of my constituents?

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[Mr Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op)]

Are we ever going to get a fair deal for farmers or consumers when ruthless monopolies such as Tesco dominate our retail trade? Tesco now has 30% of the trade—by my economic training, that is a monopoly that any Government have to recognise and take on.

[Mrs Spelman]

The Department’s business plan sets out clearly its priority of supporting British food and farming. Obviously, we are trying in the CAP negotiations to get a fair deal for British farmers, consumers and the environment alike. There was an investigation into abuse of competition through the Competition Commission, but the new element that we bring into play is the grocery adjudicator. As I said, the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills intends to introduce legislation on that around Easter.

[Duncan Hames (Chippenham) (LD)]

On taking sustainable development mainstream, the Secretary of State gave me her clear assurance during DEFRA questions on 4 November that she would continue to meet the designated green Ministers from each Department. Will she tell the House who the designated green Ministers in each Department are, and when they last met?

[Mrs Spelman]

I am delighted to be able to tell the House that DEFRA has instituted the green Ministers breakfast. Ministers from across the Government come to DEFRA once a month for this popular event. As you would expect, Mr Speaker, the Department of food and drink makes absolutely sure that they do not go hungry. The events have brought about the huge benefits of breaking down silos between Departments and putting in place a really joined-up approach to green issues and sustainable development right across the Government.

[Mr Speaker]

We are now much better informed and thank the Secretary of State.

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[Andrew George (St Ives) (LD)]

Further to questions about the grocery adjudicator, I should declare an interest as chair of the Grocery Market Action Group, as well as because last week I met the Under-Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills, my hon. Friend the Member for Kingston and Surbiton (Mr Davey), who confirmed that the draft Bill would be published after the purdah period in May. Will the Secretary of State reassure the House that she will use every endeavour to work with the business managers of this place and the Business Department to ensure that the measure is introduced this year and that we have effective regulation of the sector as soon as possible?

[Mrs Spelman]

I am happy to give my hon. Friend an absolute assurance that I will use all my best endeavours to ensure that we proceed swiftly. I pay tribute to his work on producing a Bill in this Parliament, which I hope will help to inform his colleagues in the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills. I know that the Deputy Leader of the House is anxious that we make good progress on the important Bill that my hon. Friend mentioned.

[Mr Speaker]

I thank colleagues for their co-operation which, not for the first time, has ensured that every question on the Order Paper has been reached and substantially more besides.

Independent Panel on Forestry

Caroline Spelman Excerpts

Thursday 17th March 2011 Written Statements

[The Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Mrs Caroline Spelman)]

Further to my statement on 17 February 2011, Official Report, column 1155, I have today announced that the right Rev. James Jones, Bishop of Liverpool, has agreed to chair an independent panel to advise me on the future direction of forestry and woodland policy in England and on the role of the Forestry Commission in implementing policy. The members of the panel are:

Shireen Chambers (Institute of Chartered Foresters)

Dr Mike Clarke (Royal Society for the Protection of Birds)

Tom Franklin (Ramblers)

Stuart Goodall (Confederation of Forest Industries)

Stephanie Hilborne QBE (Wildlife Trusts)

Sue Holden (Woodland Trust)

Dr Alan Knight QBE (Single Planet Living)

Dame Fiona Reynolds (National Trust)

Sir Harry Studholme (Forestry Commissioner)

John Varley (Clinton Devon Estates)

William Worsley (Country Land and Business Association)

The members of the panel bring a wide range of interests and expertise covering the environmental, social and economic aspects of forestry. I have published the panel’s terms of reference on the DEFRA website (www.defra.gov.uk/rural/forestry/).

Environment Council

Caroline Spelman Excerpts

Tuesday 8th March 2011 Written Statements

[The Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Mrs Caroline Spelman)]

My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change and I will represent the UK at the Environment Council in Brussels in 14 March.

At this Council, the Hungarian presidency is expected to seek political agreement on the proposal for a recast of the directive on waste electrical and electronic equipment (WEEE).

The presidency will also seek the adoption of Council conclusions on the follow-up to the 16th conference of the parties to the UN framework convention on climate change in Cancun and on the review of the community strategy concerning mercury.

There will be an exchange of views on the latest analysis of the proposal for a regulation regarding the possibility for member states to restrict or prohibit the cultivation of GMOs in their territory. A further exchange of views will be held on the common agricultural policy towards 2020 and on the Environment Council’s contribution to the EU semester.

The following topics will be covered under “any other business”:

Presentation by the Commission on the low-carbon economy roadmap 2050;

Information from the Danish delegation on endocrine disrupters;

Information from the Commission on a communication on “Regional policy contributing to sustainable growth in Europe 2020”;

Information from the Commission on the state of the ETS registry; and

Information from the Austrian delegation on measures concerning the use of plastic carrier bags.

Forestry (England)

Caroline Spelman Excerpts

Thursday 17th February 2011 Commons Chamber

[The Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Mrs Caroline Spelman)]

I would first like to say that I take full responsibility for the situation that brings me to the House today. Let me make it clear that we have always placed the highest priority on preserving access and protecting our forests, but the forestry clauses in the Public Bodies Bill, published well before we launched the consultation, gave the wrong impression of the Government’s intentions. That is why I am today announcing three steps that will allow for more measured and rational debate about the future direction of forestry policy.

First, I have taken a decision to end the consultation on the future of the public forest estate, and I take full responsibility for that. I am doing so because it is clear from the early responses to the consultation that the public, and many hon. Members, are not happy with the proposals that we set out. Secondly, the Government will support the removal of the forestry clauses from the Public Bodies Bill, which is in Committee in the other place.

Thirdly, I would like to announce to the House that I am establishing an independent panel to consider forestry policy in England. It will report to me with its findings in the autumn. The panel will advise me on the future direction of forestry and woodland policy in England, and on the role of the Forestry Commission and the public forest estate. The panel will include representatives of key environmental and access organisations, alongside representatives of the forestry industry. I will shortly publish its membership and terms of reference.

If there is one clear message from this experience, it is that people cherish their forests and woodlands and the benefits that they bring. My first priority throughout this period of debate has been securing a sustainable future for our woodlands and forests. On many occasions in the House last autumn, Ministers gave assurances that our aim in all of this has been to do more to maintain and enhance the public benefits delivered by forestry—from recreational access to wildlife protection, and from tackling climate change to sustaining a wide range of small businesses. That is why my ambition to provide a better future for our forests is undiminished.

We have already heard positive suggestions about how we can do that for heritage forests and all other woodlands. We have spoken to the Royal Society for the Protection of Birds, the National Trust, the Woodland Trust, the wildlife trusts, the Ramblers Association and other groups. The Forestry Commission has itself acknowledged that change is needed, and will be fully engaged in the process, as I know that it has many ideas to contribute. We have also been listening to hon. Members on both sides of the House, many of whom have set up their own initiatives and local groups. We want to support them in that.

Finally, I am sorry, we got this one wrong—but we have listened to people's concerns. I thank colleagues for their support through what has been a very difficult issue. I now want to move forward in step with the public. I hope that the measures that I have announced today, signalling a fresh approach, demonstrate my intention to do the right thing for our forests and our woodlands.

[Mary Creagh (Wakefield) (Lab)]

I welcome the Secretary of State’s full and frank apology to the House and to the nation for getting this so very wrong. I am sure that the past 48 hours have not been easy for her.

Last night the Government announced that they would withdraw the forestry clauses from the Public Bodies Bill, which is now in the other place, and scrap the consultation on the sell-off of England's forests. Again, MPs heard about a major Government U-turn on the television, rather than hearing it here first. [Hon. Members: “No!”] It came through on BBC News and Sky at 10.20. Can the Secretary of State tell the House when she was informed of the decision that she is now announcing, as her statement is mysteriously absent from the Order Paper today? Only yesterday the Prime Minister told the House that the consultation on the forests, set to run until April, would continue. When was the decision made, and who made it?

Today the air is filled with the sound of chickens coming home to roost. The Secretary of State has discovered that her first priority—delivering the 30% cut that she inflicted on her Department—has a hefty political price attached. Half a million people have marched, mountain-biked and petitioned against her sale of the century. They objected to the once-in-a-lifetime offer to buy something that they already collectively own. Under the cloak of reducing the deficit, she came up with a policy that her own Department admitted would cost more than it delivered in benefits, and which would have fragmented the environmental stewardship of England's forests. I congratulate all hon. Members who defied their party Whips a couple of weeks ago to vote against the sell-off, and I remind those who did not that the public may well extract a hefty price from them at the next election.

Today is not a victory for politics as usual: it is a victory for Liz Searle of the Friends of Chopwell Wood, whom I met in Gateshead two weeks ago, for the Save Cannock Chase campaigners, and for the Friends of Dalby Forest, members of which I met in York last weekend. It is a victory for the Save Our Woods campaign, for Alan Robertson from the Hands Off Our Forest campaign in the Forest of Dean, and for thousands of others. I hope that Government Members are listening to those names and will contact those campaigners. They signed the Save Our Forests petition and the Save England's Forests petition, and supported the silent majority in speaking up and telling the Government, “This land is our land”.

Last Friday the Secretary of State announced that her sale of 15% of England's forest permitted under the law as it stands would be put on hold until the consultation ended. The consultation ended last night—we assume by prime ministerial decree. Will the sale of those 40,000 hectares, or 100,000 acres—10 times more than the Labour Government sold during their entire 13 years, and we then reinvested the money—now go ahead, or will that sale await the outcome of the panel’s deliberations? How many consultation responses has she received, and will the panel consider those responses?

I am delighted that the Secretary of State has finally spoken to the environmental charities and listened to them on the matter. How will the freshly dreamed-up independent panel on the forests be selected? Why are representatives of the forestry industry—the lone voice in favour of her proposals—included in the panel, and why will it meet in secret? Should it not tour the country listening to what people want from their forests and showing a little humility on the subject? Can she reassure the public that foresters themselves, the custodians of forests, will be represented on the panel? How will the campaigners and the members of the public who have spoken up on the issue be represented? What is the status of DEFRA’s forestry regulation—or should I say deregulation—taskforce, which was quietly announced by her colleague in January? Surely we should not have two separate advisory panels, running in tandem, on the future of the forests? Can she tell the House how the Forestry Commission can possibly deliver better access and more biodiversity when it is set to lose a quarter of its staff in the next three months?

This U-turn highlights a wider problem about how this Government work. We have the Prime Minister, a self-styled non-executive chairman, now setting up a unit to monitor Ministers, but he is barking up the wrong tree. It is not individual Departments he should be putting into special measures, but the whole Government, who are out of touch with what people care about, whether that is the opportunity to walk in the forests or to ensure that babies get milk and books, or that our children have the chance to go to university.

I congratulate the Environment Secretary on one thing: she is probably the only Cabinet Minister in living memory to unite the Socialist Workers party and the National Trust in opposition to her plans. Will she learn the lessons of this debacle? She cannot ride roughshod over the people on a policy for which she has no mandate. By offering her 30% cut across DEFRA she has set herself on a collision course with anybody who loves the countryside—and if she will not stand up for the countryside, we on the Labour Benches most certainly will.

[Mrs Spelman]

As I am sure you, Mr Speaker, and the House are aware, I volunteered to make an oral statement, and an oral statement does not appear on the Order Paper.

I made the decision with the Prime Minister. We have spoken about the matter, as the hon. Lady would expect, on a number of occasions. We spoke face to face about the options open to us, and we made the decision together.

The hon. Lady talks about the savings that I have had to make in my Department without a trace of acknowledgement that the reason Government Departments are having to make savings is the mess that her Government left this country in. I do not accept her argument that the proposals outlined in the consultation would have impacted adversely on the stewardship of our woodlands and forests. Since we are on the subject of stewardship, I remind her that, notwithstanding the savings that we have had to make in our Department, we have protected the expenditure on stewardship, precisely because we know that it is so important.

The many friends of forests that the hon. Lady listed will in many cases have written to hon. Members on both sides of the House to express their concern about their understanding of the forestry clauses in the Public Bodies Bill. In their minds, those clauses gave rise to a concern that their particular dearly loved forest might in some way be under threat. It is clear from my statement that, with the withdrawal of the forestry clauses, there can be no question about the protection of their forests in future.

The hon. Lady asked me about the planned sales. They have been suspended, and we await the outcome from the panel. She asked how many responses we had received. The Forestry Commission has received approximately 7,000 direct responses and 2,500 e-mails, and it has sent out 400 hard copies of the consultation document.

With regard to the composition of the panel, it will represent the broad range of views of all those who share with all of us a love and cherishing of the forests, and want to see them protected. It will be broad. Let me help the hon. Lady with her understanding of the deregulation taskforce, which fulfils a completely different function from that of the panel. We have invited Mr Richard Macdonald to advise Ministers on the simplification of regulation, particularly the regulation of agriculture. The consultation is complete: we have received the responses and we await Mr Macdonald’s report. As I said, this is a completely different function from that of the panel that I have announced today.

I found it quite hard to take the hon. Lady’s comments about the support that the previous Labour Government had given to the countryside—and the reaction of Members to those comments was enough to reinforce that point. Finally, as regards humility—perhaps, ultimately, that is the difference between her and me. I am prepared to come here and show genuine humility. If we heard some acknowledgement from the hon. Lady that her Government sold off forests with inadequate protection, we might begin to take what she had to say more seriously.

[Andrew George (St Ives) (LD)]

The Secretary of State is, of course, right in the reassurances that she gave about the Public Bodies Bill, and I certainly welcome the statement she made last week about the 40,000 hectares, as previously announced in the comprehensive spending review. Will she reassure us that the well-constructed questions posed in the consultation will not simply be lost, or submerged by what has been announced today?

[Mrs Spelman]

Yes, I can give that assurance. Those were perfectly reasonable questions to ask, and I would expect members of the independent panel to look at all the questions raised in the consultation document—and, indeed, at some additional wider questions that members of the public asked to be considered.

[Several hon. Members]

rose—

[Mr David Winnick (Walsall North) (Lab)]

If there is any personal sympathy for the Secretary of State today, it is because she has been publicly humiliated by the Prime Minister and the Chancellor. Can she bring herself to congratulate the many people up and down the country, certainly including my constituents, who fought and campaigned so hard against the selling off of one of our most precious national assets?

[Mrs Spelman]

As I have said, I have no difficulty in life in being frank when I have got something wrong; I have come to the House and said as much. As regards the many people up and down the country whose love for their forests is quite apparent from the responses I received, I would like to reassure them that it was never the Government’s intention to sell off the forests to the highest bidder—[Interruption.] That was never in our minds.

[Mr Roger Gale (North Thanet) (Con)]

The statutory protection of right of access for walkers and riders, the statutory protection of the environment and the national habitat and the long-term securing of our natural woodlands were all contained in my right hon. Friend’s proposals, but none of them was put forward either by Her Majesty’s Opposition or—dare one say it?—by the push-button campaigners. Those protections need to be hung on to. My right hon. Friend was not wrong; she was right. Will she make certain that this Government protect our forests for the future, as the Opposition, when they were in government, never did?

[Mrs Spelman]

Of course, I am happy to give that undertaking. It is important to remember that a number of statutory protections—governing access, rights of way, wildlife protection, planning, the care of our woodlands and felling—are already in place. In addition to all that, we Ministers have made it clear on a number of occasions that we want to increase protection for access and other public benefits, because it is apparent from the sales made by the previous Administration that parts of that are not adequate.

[Mr Kevan Jones (North Durham) (Lab)]

I welcome the decision to pulp this policy. The Secretary of State’s attitude towards the House today seems to be that nanny has been misunderstood, and that if people had understood Government policy better they might have embraced it. Let me tell her, on the basis of experience in my constituency, that that is not the case. How will the right hon. Lady ensure that the millions of people who wrote to their MPs and marched against the policy will have their voices heard on the independent panel?

[Mrs Spelman]

I thought that I made it perfectly clear, and said quite straightforwardly to the House, that in this case we got it wrong; we listened, and we are going to take a fresh approach.

[Neil Parish (Tiverton and Honiton) (Con)]

I very much welcome the Secretary of State’s response, because I think we can now be very positive about this, and think about how we manage the forests, how the Forestry Commission can help the smaller forests and how we can get greater public access and biodiversity in them.

[Mrs Spelman]

I thank my hon. Friend for that observation. It is encouraging that the Forestry Commission agrees that reform is needed, and that we together should have the ambition to do better for our forests and woodlands and to enhance and protect their biodiversity.

[Mr Ben Bradshaw (Exeter) (Lab)]

Did the Prime Minister offer to come and give the Secretary of State his support in executing this humiliating U-turn? As my hon. Friend the Member for Wakefield (Mary Creagh) said, the real problem is that we have a Prime Minister who almost prides himself in not knowing what is going on in Government Departments, and likes to float above everything as a non-executive chairman. It is he who needs to get a grip, not just the Secretary of State.

[Mrs Spelman]

Well, that might have been the right hon. Gentleman’s experience of the previous Prime Minister, but I have spoken to the Prime Minister on a number of occasions over the last few weeks, as it was quite apparent that we were having difficulty with the consultation. I have been very grateful for his support.

[Bob Russell (Colchester) (LD)]

I thank the Secretary of State for her pragmatic approach. I seek her assurance that there will be an attempt to achieve not only political consensus but a consensus across the country, in the hope that we can go forward with a better scheme—in sharp contrast, it has to be said, with the sales by stealth made by the Labour Government, whose financial policy appears to be that money grows on trees.

[Mrs Spelman]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his observation, and his wonderful turn of phrase. He is, of course, absolutely right that this is a difficult issue, as previous Administrations have found. I am encouraged to think that the amount of interest generated in constituencies will encourage Members on both sides of the House to participate in this fresh approach to finding the best future for our woodlands and forests.

[Caroline Lucas (Brighton, Pavilion) (Green)]

On behalf of the many hundreds of constituents in Brighton, Pavilion who wrote to me in opposition to the forest sell-off, I warmly welcome this U-turn. May I press the Secretary of State on the question of the independent panel? How, precisely, will it include the voices of those inspirational grass-roots movements that led the campaign against the forest sell-off? Will she guarantee that its meetings will be held in public?

[Mrs Spelman]

I hope that the hon. Lady will have heard in my statement what I said about the helpful contributions of the large grass-roots campaigning organisations to debate on this subject. I am quite sure that they will be part of the wide group that we will draw in on our independent panel.

[Mr Desmond Swayne (New Forest West) (Con)]

I welcome the statement, and I do so also on behalf of my hon. Friend the Member for New Forest East (Dr Lewis), who as you know, Mr Speaker, is detained elsewhere. [Interruption.] On the business of the House, Mr Speaker!

[Mr Swayne]

Does my right hon. Friend agree that the course she has set is much more likely to ensure that some of the opportunities inherent in her proposals for the New Forest will be brought forward and implemented than would have been the case under the previous means of consulting the House? May I also say to you, Mr Speaker, that I am surprised and shocked by the singular lack of grace shown by some hon. Members?

[Mrs Spelman]

I would certainly like to give my hon. Friend that assurance, and the vehicle of an independent panel representing a wide range of views to advise Ministers is, as he suggests, likely to produce a better outcome.

[Barry Gardiner (Brent North) (Lab)]

I welcome the Secretary of State’s apology to the House for this debacle, and the spirit in which it was given. Will she explain the situation in respect of the receipts that were anticipated from the sale of up to 15% of the land? Will she also reassure the House that in considering how to proceed with the English forest estate, she will pay particular attention to the green infrastructure of land around cities and the climate change connectivity necessary to extend forests into such areas so that the effects of climate change are mitigated?

[Mrs Spelman]

There are quite a few dimensions to that question. As the permanent secretary said when she and I were interviewed by the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs Committee in the autumn, she would have regarded any revenue from the planned sale of 15% of the land as a bonus, because she could not be sure about that. Now that those sales have been suspended, the situation depends on the outcome from the panel, but our Department’s spending plans are not affected by the change.

It is clear that extra woodland cover in proximity to urban areas has a greatly beneficial effect, and the Government have an ambition to plant 1 million trees, which I hope will also enhance biodiversity.

[Nick Boles (Grantham and Stamford) (Con)]

The Secretary of State has had the honesty and guts to come here to say that she presented ideas to the British public, but the British public did not much like them, so she said sorry and came up with a new approach. Is it not instructive that that is in such amazing contrast to the behaviour of that lot on the Opposition Benches who, no matter how many acres of woodland they sold and no matter how much gold they sold and at what price, nevertheless ran our economy into the ditch, from which we are trying to dig it out?

[Mrs Spelman]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. As part of restoring trust in politics, it is important that the electorate see that the Government will listen. It is also very important in our new politics to be transparent, and I agree that had the previous Government consulted and been transparent about the terms and conditions of the sale of the public forest estate, it might have greatly helped the understanding of this issue.

[Sir Gerald Kaufman (Manchester, Gorton) (Lab)]

Is not this humiliating climbdown—[Hon. Members: “Oh!”] Oh yes, you all voted for it; every one of you. Is not this humiliating climbdown a tribute to the anger of huge numbers of people, including large numbers of my own constituents, who said they would not have this? Is it not deplorable that the right hon. Lady has been made to stand in the corner with a dunce’s cap on her head by a Cabinet that two weeks ago drummed the whole lot of them on the Government Benches—Liberal Democrats and Tories—to vote for the opposite of what she is saying now?

[Mrs Spelman]

It is only humiliating if we are afraid to say sorry, and one of the things we teach our children is to be honest. It is not a question of humiliation; it is my choice.

[Karen Bradley (Staffordshire Moorlands) (Con)]

When the Labour party was in office, were any consultations held in which the views of the public were actually listened to?

[Mrs Spelman]

The one that comes to mind is the Post Office consultation, which we all remember really was a sham.

[Bridget Phillipson (Houghton and Sunderland South) (Lab)]

A huge number of my constituents have written to me in the strongest possible terms on this important issue. Will the Secretary of State set out clearly and fully how they can make their views known in public directly to the panel?

[Mrs Spelman]

I think the hon. Lady will know from the e-mails she has received that the fears of many of our constituents were raised by their understanding of the forestry clauses in the Public Bodies Bill, and one of the things she can do is write to her constituents to explain that those clauses have now been removed. The Department always responds to all correspondence directed to it, and the hon. Lady has more than one vehicle to suggest by which the public can engage with us on the way forward in forestry and woodland policy in this country.

[Andrew Percy (Brigg and Goole) (Con)]

I welcome the statement, and its tone certainly contrasted with the somewhat ungracious response from the Opposition Front Bench; we got no apology for the 25,000 acres they flogged off. The concern in my constituency generally relates to private forests and the public protections we need to ensure we continue to have a benefit. Will the independent panel and the review continue to look at the protections for private forests as well as the public estate?

[Mrs Spelman]

I can give my hon. Friend that assurance. The public forest estate accounts for 18% of woodland cover in this country, so the vast majority of forest and woodland is in private ownership, and part of the point of moving to a fresh approach with an independent panel and widening the range of questions under consideration is to look at forestry policy and woodland policy in general.

[Joan Walley (Stoke-on-Trent North) (Lab)]

I welcome the Secretary of State’s climbdown on behalf of the constituents who have expressed anger and disbelief to me about what is happening, but given both that the Government have said this is meant to be the greenest Government ever and that they have got rid of the Sustainable Development Commission, is it not about time that what has happened to this policy does not happen in all the other areas of biodiversity? Is it not time that the Government set out how they are going to embed sustainable development in all future policy in both urban and rural areas?

--- Later in debate ---

[Mrs Spelman]

The hon. Lady is Chairman of the Environmental Audit Committee and I respect that, but I encourage her to look at the Government’s first nine months in the round. In that period, my Department has had the success of concluding a multilateral agreement on biodiversity, as well as making sure we have a ban in place on commercial whaling, and protecting and enhancing biodiversity through maintaining the environmental stewardship scheme, to name but three measures to put in the balance. Later this spring, a natural environment White Paper will be published as well, of course.

[Sir Peter Bottomley (Worthing West) (Con)]

I gave a ministerial answer once saying, “I’m sorry, I made a mistake.” That was not duplicated once during the 13 years of the Labour Government. Will the Secretary of State consult Felix Dennis and the Tree Council about voluntary planting, and will she also allow me to say that many of the messages on this got caught in spam filters, so many of the 500,000 people who sent e-mails may not have received a reply?

[Mrs Spelman]

My hon. Friend is living proof that it is perfectly possible to say sorry and continue to provide a very valuable service in this House. The point he makes shows why humility is a good quality in a politician.

[Mr Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op)]

I thank the Secretary of State for changing her mind; it is a relief she has done so. May I also ask her to seize the opportunity, because what she tried to do has brought to light a passion for our woodlands and forests that many of us did not realise was so great? As chairman of the John Clare Trust, I appeal to her to use it. Forests are wonderful, and natural forests are even better, but we have got to get children and families to visit forests. The likelihood of a child visiting any green space has halved in a generation, so will she also consider how we can expand forests and get people to use them?

[Mrs Spelman]

That is a constructive suggestion, which I am sure the panel will take forward. Many non-governmental organisations and green groups have spoken to us about the opportunity such a panel presents to deal with some of the issues that beset our forests and woodlands, and to address their own aspirations to do better by them.

[Robert Halfon (Harlow) (Con)]

Will my right hon. Friend confirm that we definitely will not be pursuing the policies of the previous Government, such as selling 25,000 hectares of forest without any access granted? Will she also confirm that the thrust of Government policy will be to transfer forests to communities so that they can own them via co-operatives or other community bodies?

[Mrs Spelman]

Ministers have on numerous occasions given reassurances to the House that we would not proceed with those planned sales without better protection being in place. I am sure the independent panel will look at the genuine interest from community and local groups in being more involved in the management and ownership of their local forests. There are many examples of communities that have successfully provided a safe future for the woodlands and forests near where they live.

[Luciana Berger (Liverpool, Wavertree) (Lab/Co-op)]

Will the right hon. Lady please explain to my constituents why she has wasted so much of her time scurrying between TV and radio stations, desperately trying to defend selling off our forests before having to make an embarrassing U-turn today, when she could have been taking action to tackle urgent issues such as dangerous dogs?

[Mrs Spelman]

I have not been anywhere near a TV or radio station all day because I understand the primacy of Parliament. It is important to come here first and make a statement. Naturally, as a Minister, in addition to dealing with the issue of forests, I have a large number of matters with which the Department is dealing. We always ensure that they are not compromised or affected by anything that we may be dealing with at one point in time.

[Tessa Munt (Wells) (LD)]

I welcome the Secretary of State’s announcement today, and I regret the lack of clarity on access for the public and on the protection for biodiversity and landscape. I do not understand why we are cancelling a consultation when the new panel will need to hear and make its decision by autumn. It might be more logical to continue with the consultation for the remaining ten and a half weeks so that the public can continue to add their views to the current process.

[Mrs Spelman]

It is clear from the early responses that members of the public are responding in many cases to what they have read in the press or what they have heard, rather than necessarily understanding the policy. Many of the responses were received before the publication of the policy on 27 January. Looking at those early responses, it is difficult for Ministers to proceed with the consultation as it is. None the less, all those responses and the questions contained in the consultation will be part of the work that the independent panel will review.

[Paul Blomfield (Sheffield Central) (Lab)]

Will the Secretary of State clarify what the impact of this welcome U-turn will be on the Forestry Commission’s plans to cut 400 jobs across the country?

[Mrs Spelman]

I can explain to the hon. Gentleman that the Forestry Commission’s plans to make savings in line with the savings that my Department and other Government Departments must make have no connection at all to the consultation or the setting up of an independent panel. Savings are necessary because we have to fill a hole in the nation’s finances that was left behind by the Government of whose party he is a member.

[Mr Mark Spencer (Sherwood) (Con)]

May I put on record my thanks to the Secretary of State for listening to me and my constituents over the past month, and may I encourage her not to listen to the Opposition, who sold off woodland greater in area than the city of Nottingham during their term in office? I wonder whether this is an opportunity to increase the biodiversity of woodlands such as Sherwood in Nottinghamshire, by increasing the number of broadleaf trees and oaks rather than the coniferous woodland that exists at present.

[Mrs Spelman]

Yes, I can give my hon. Friend that assurance. I thank him for his positive approach. There certainly is an opportunity to improve and enhance biodiversity. Non-governmental organisations such as the Woodland Trust have expressed a desire to increase the rate of restoring plantations on ancient woodland sites, and the Royal Society for the Protection of Birds is keen to look at the restoration of heathlands. That is precisely the opportunity that this fresh approach affords.

[Steve McCabe (Birmingham, Selly Oak) (Lab)]

I am not sure that it is ever wrong to terminate a failed policy, but given the sudden and abrupt end to the right hon. Lady’s plans, will she tell us how much public money has been wasted on this fiasco so far?

[Mrs Spelman]

The advantage of modern technology is that documents such as consultation documents are now largely viewable online, so in the figures that I gave about the number of responses that we had received and the number of hard copies dispatched, the hon. Gentleman will be able to see that the public expenditure is minimal.

[Caroline Nokes (Romsey and Southampton North) (Con)]

I thank and commend the Secretary of State for her bravery and honesty on this subject. What has emerged from the woodwork is not just thousands of constituent e-mails, but a significant number of eminent academics and professors with knowledge of the subject. How can they feed in their views to the expert panel?

[Mrs Spelman]

I can assure my hon. Friend that honesty is always the best policy. That is what I always try to teach my children. The interest in the subject has produced very good suggestions from scientists and academics about ways in which we can improve biodiversity and the protection that currently exists for woodlands and forests. They, too, will have the opportunity to feed in to the panel through the Department or directly to the representatives on the panel.

[John Woodcock (Barrow and Furness) (Lab/Co-op)]

Will the Secretary of State take the opportunity to dissociate herself from the disgraceful comments from the hon. Member for North Thanet (Mr Gale), who is no longer in his place, that the many thousands of people who were roused to anger by the proposals were push-button campaigners?

[Mrs Spelman]

I am unaware of those remarks and not in a position to comment. The hon. Gentleman has heard from me that I entirely respect the passion that people in our country have for their woodlands and forests—a passion that I share and applaud. I want to make sure that it is responded to by creating the best possible future for our forests and woodlands.

[Roger Williams (Brecon and Radnorshire) (LD)]

I am a member of a partnership that is in receipt of farm woodland grants to promote public goods such as access and biodiversity—but in Wales, not in England, which is the subject of the statement? I am very pleased that the Secretary of State has broadened the consultation to cover private forestry and woodland, which, when well managed, can deliver both commercially and in terms of public goods. How does she intend to recruit people to represent this part of the industry, or is she looking for volunteers?

--- Later in debate ---

[Mrs Spelman]

I am always interested in volunteers. We are looking particularly for those who have a good understanding of the issues involved in the management of forests and woodland. I have named before the House a number of green groups that have a long heritage of protection of our environment, but it is important that we have representatives of the private forest estates, so if the hon. Gentleman has suggestions he should let me have them.

[Mr David Anderson (Blaydon) (Lab)]

I am sorry that the Chancellor has gone, because I wanted to thank him as well as the Secretary of State for the great boost they have given to Blaydon Labour party over the past few weeks during this fiasco. I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Wakefield (Mary Creagh) for mentioning the great work that is being done by the people fighting to save Chopwell woods. My message to them is, “Don’t stop fighting.” What has happened today is not the end of the story. I want to ask the Secretary of State one specific question. Will there be a representative of the work force on the independent panel? They know what is going on.

[Mrs Spelman]

As I said clearly, the representation on the independent panel will be broad, with as wide a range of views as possible of those who have an interest in our forests and woodlands.

[Dr Thérèse Coffey (Suffolk Coastal) (Con)]

My right hon. Friend is aware that I have three forests in my constituency—Rendlesham, Dunwich and Tunstall—and I held a public meeting last Friday. People there will welcome the announcement that she has made today, particularly those who are concerned about access. I am encouraging those people to join bodies such as the Suffolk Wildlife Trust and Friends of Sandlings Forest, but a particular point came up about access. Horse riders, carriage drivers and cyclists are slightly concerned that some of the organisations that my right hon. Friend mentions are closing access now, supposedly to protect biodiversity, wildlife and so on. Will she bring that to the attention of the panel when it meets?

[Mrs Spelman]

I would be delighted to bring those concerns to the panel. I know that my hon. Friend has met large numbers of people in her constituency and approached the whole issue with great diligence. I think she would therefore acknowledge that there are some important questions to resolve, and tensions between different access groups. This is precisely one of the aspects that I will ask the independent panel to look at.

[Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab)]

I congratulate the Secretary of State on at least resolving a centuries-old philosophical problem—namely, if a tree falls in the forest and one takes one’s eye off it, it does make a noise. It makes a noise sufficiently loud to be heard right across the country and to expose the lack of grip that the Prime Minister has on his Government’s policies.

[Mrs Spelman]

I do not think that there was a question at the heart of that. The whole point of my statement was to make it abundantly clear that we are a Government who listen and, having listened, are prepared to take the right action.

[Greg Mulholland (Leeds North West) (LD)]

I take it that the shadow Secretary of State has a commitment to recycling, given the way she shamelessly plagiarised the joke by my hon. Friend the Member for Westmorland and Lonsdale (Tim Farron), the president of the Liberal Democrats. I praise the Secretary of State for her honesty and courage, which the public want to see more of in our politicians. I am proud to be part of a Government who listen to people, unlike the previous Government. I ask that, as we go forward, we do not lose some of the positive proposals, particularly those on real, long-term protection for our important heritage forests.

[Mrs Spelman]

I can give the hon. Gentleman that assurance. In the normal sequence of events, the independent panel would give advice to Ministers, and if Ministers judged it to be correct we would then proceed with a consultation White Paper, which might give rise to legislation if changes in the law were required to provide the extra protection.

[Sheila Gilmore (Edinburgh East) (Lab)]

I genuinely welcome the Government’s response. One of the plagues of politics is that it can sometimes be very difficult to back down and admit that something was wrong. I urge the Secretary of State, having reprieved vulnerable trees, to urge some of her colleagues to reprieve vulnerable people who will be subject to benefit cuts.

[Mrs Spelman]

I thank the hon. Lady for the good spirit with which she received my statement to the House, but I am sure that she will understand that the protection of vulnerable people in other regards is outwith my Department’s responsibilities.

[David Morris (Morecambe and Lunesdale) (Con)]

I congratulate the Secretary of State on this decision and thank her on behalf of the 1,000 constituents who e-mailed me requesting a review. May I also make her aware of the fact that the Opposition, when in government, sold off forest land three times the size of Blackpool before this policy was even put before Members?

[Mrs Spelman]

My hon. Friend makes a clear point, which we would have liked to have seen acknowledged by the Opposition, but let us try to be more generous-spirited and learn from their previous mistakes. If it was wrong to sell off the public forest estate with inadequate protection, we as a new Government can do better.

[Dr Andrew Murrison (South West Wiltshire) (Con)]

I congratulate the Secretary of State on her statement and the manner in which she delivered it. More than 300 constituents have written to me on the subject and will be reassured to have a Government who are prepared to listen to them and act on their concerns. I urge her to resist any temptation to take any lessons from the Opposition, whose consultations in general, and on woodlands in particular, were either lamentable or non-existent.

[Mrs Spelman]

I thank my hon. Friend for that observation. It is right that I should acknowledge fully before the House that we have all received much correspondence as constituency MPs, whether electronic or in hard copy. This is an important opportunity for us as parliamentarians to demonstrate that we do debate in Parliament, that we are able to communicate with our constituents and that we listen and are prepared to respond to them. I hope that hon. Members will be able to use today’s statement to communicate with the many people from whom they have received correspondence.

[Heather Wheeler (South Derbyshire) (Con)]

Like all Government Members, I congratulate the Secretary of State on this extremely important statement. May I put on the record the number of people in South Derbyshire who support the national forest and who were very concerned, but whose fears I am now able to allay? The national forest is such a good product that I hope we will be to make it larger once the independent panel has been set up.

[Mrs Spelman]

I can certainly give my hon. Friend that assurance. We should have the ambition to try to increase woodland cover, and the national forest is a good example of an amenity that reaches out to a wide cross-section of society, providing the opportunity for enhanced biodiversity and public access. It is the Government’s aspiration to plant more trees, and the national forest is a good example of how that can be done well.

[John Glen (Salisbury) (Con)]

I welcome the statement and applaud the fundamental decency, integrity, transparency and humility that the Secretary of State has shown. Given the hundreds of e-mails that we have all received, I suggest that there is an opportunity to harness the great interest in a sustainable woodland for the benefit of the country. Perhaps she would set out ways in which those many people can contribute to that future that they seek.

[Mrs Spelman]

I thank my hon. Friend for his kind remarks. This has been a difficult issue, as I have said, but it has also provided an opportunity to encourage all those people who corresponded with us to be more involved in the protection and enhancement of our woodlands by volunteering. Engaging with our constituents in the opportunities to plant more trees and protect our woodlands is a good outcome for all of us who love our woods and forests.

[Mr Aidan Burley (Cannock Chase) (Con)]

Under the policy of the previous Labour Government, Cannock chase could have been sold off without any protection for access whatsoever. That would have been completely reversed by the granting of heritage status under the Secretary of State’s previous proposals. The people of Cannock chase will rightly feel that today’s decision leaves their forest as exposed as it was under Labour, so what reassurances can she give that the granting of heritage status will remain an option for the independent panel and that there are no plans, and never were, to sell off Cannock chase?

[Mrs Spelman]

I can give my hon. Friend an absolute assurance that, as Ministers have said many times, we wish to protect access and other public benefits for all woodlands and forests. I will certainly encourage the independent panel to look at the issue of heritage forests. He has done an admirable job of speaking up for Cannock chase and made a strong case for it being considered a heritage forest, and I am sure that his constituents will thank him all the more for that.

[David Rutley (Macclesfield) (Con)]

The residents of Macclesfield enjoy the wonderful benefits of access to Macclesfield forest, which is owned by United Utilities. As my hon. Friend the Member for Suffolk Coastal (Dr Coffey) has said, access for horse riding groups, climbers and walkers will be important and needs to be considered in future. Will the Secretary of State confirm that access will be at the heart of the terms of reference that will be crafted for the new independent panel?

[Mrs Spelman]

I can give my hon. Friend that assurance. It is important that the panel looks at all forms of access, including access for walkers, riders and cyclists, because sometimes their needs are not completely compatible. As has been explained to me, if a horse ruts a path, it is not easy for a cyclist to go along that same path. A good way forward for the panel is to look at those different forms of access. We want to expand access to our forests and woodlands because it is in everyone’s interests that we do so.

[Matthew Hancock (West Suffolk) (Con)]

The Secretary of State will be aware that the third largest forest in England, Thetford forest, is largely in my constituency, and I received an awful lot of correspondence on the subject. I will be sending all correspondents a copy of this exchange, because I think that the dignified way in which she has carried herself has been exemplary and they will be reassured by everything she has said. The overwhelming point they made to me was that the most important things for the future of the forests are access rights, the protection of biodiversity and not using the matter as a political football, as some have sought to do.

[Mrs Spelman]

My hon. Friend’s constituents are absolutely right: forests and woodlands are precious to this country and we should be seeking to protect them and enhance their biodiversity. The aspiration of the Woodland Trust to accelerate the rate of restoration and plantation on ancient woodland sites is a good example of how we can provide an even better future for our forests.

[Kris Hopkins (Keighley) (Con)]

I welcome the Secretary of State’s statement and thank her for listening to the robust challenges from myself and other Government Members. It takes a lot to put your hand up, say you got it wrong and say sorry in a place like this, but I believe that, in doing so, the Secretary of State and the Government will have earned a great deal of respect from the country.

[Mrs Spelman]

I thank my hon. Friend for that. I do remember his robust advice to me, and I hope he feels reassured to know that I have heeded it. We can all learn throughout life from all the decisions that we take, and I am certainly part of the wide body of mankind that will do so.

[Guy Opperman (Hexham) (Con)]

I thank the Secretary of State for having the common sense to change her mind and to preserve Kielder, which is larger than Thetford, for sure.

[Guy Opperman]

And even better than Cannock chase.

In reality, the Opposition’s criticism is wrong, because many of us got into this business and ran for Parliament because we thought that the way the countryside was being treated was manifestly wrong. Over the years, they rode roughshod over us, and that was totally wrong.

[Mrs Spelman]

It is more than my life is worth to get drawn into a competition over who has the best forest, as we all have candidates, but my hon. Friend is right, and he can be reassured that the Government, drawn from two parties with a large number of rural constituencies, have taken rural issues and the needs of the countryside very close to their heart indeed.

[Stephen Williams (Bristol West) (LD)]

I, too, commend the Secretary of State for the very gracious way in which she made her statement, which in itself executes a welcome policy re-think, showing that this Government, at least, listen to the views of constituents. In that regard, will she help me to reassure the 1,250 people who wrote to me in Bristol West about the issue—the biggest postbag I have ever had on any issue in my six years’ membership of the House—that the primary focus of the independent panel will be to enhance public access to woodlands, whether they are under Forestry Commission management or not?

[Mrs Spelman]

I am not going to get drawn into who had the largest postbag, either, but I absolutely can give the hon. Gentleman that assurance. Our absolute priority, as I said, is to protect and to enhance access to, and other public benefits of, our forests and woodlands, so I hope that he can reassure some of the 1,250 people with whom he corresponded that that is the case.

[Christopher Pincher (Tamworth) (Con)]

I, too, thank my right hon. Friend for listening to public concern, but when she sets up her independent panel, will she ensure that it supports small-scale independent nature reserves such as my local Hodge lane nature reserve in Tamworth, where every week volunteers come together to do important work, including coppicing, planting and clearing? The work that they do for their environment needs to be supported, too.

[Mrs Spelman]

I can give my hon. Friend that assurance. I hope that he heard—through some of the groups that have talked to our Department about the issue, including the Wildlife Trust—that we do appreciate the huge amount of volunteering and work by the public, who care passionately about nature and their nature reserves, woodlands and forests. That will, indeed, be integral, and fostering that spirit of volunteering, in the spirit of the big society, is something that the panel will very definitely look at.

[Andrew Bridgen (North West Leicestershire) (Con)]

Does the Secretary of State agree that it makes a hugely refreshing change to have a Government who consult and genuinely listen to the mood of the people, rather than just dogmatically driving through policy in the face of public opposition, as the previous Labour Government did? I compliment the Secretary of State on her courage and honesty and offer her the comfort of remembering that there is never a bad time to do the right thing.

[Mrs Spelman]

Those are very wise words, indeed, and a very important lesson for all of us is that no Government should ever stop listening. Listening is part of what we are called to do as parliamentarians, and I for one hope never to stop listening.

Departmental Expenditure Limit (2010-11)

Caroline Spelman Excerpts

Monday 14th February 2011 Written Statements

[The Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Mrs Caroline Spelman)]

Subject to parliamentary approval of any necessary supplementary estimate, the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs total departmental expenditure limit (DEL) will be increased by £45,893,000 (1.67%) from £2,755,111,000 to £2,801,004,000. The administration budget will remain unchanged £282,088,000. Within the DEL change, the impact on resources and capital is set out in the following table:

Forestry Commission England (2011-12 Asset Sales Programme)

Caroline Spelman Excerpts

Friday 11th February 2011 Written Statements

[The Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Mrs Caroline Spelman)]

As in previous years, the selection criteria for land in the Forestry Commission England’s forthcoming assets sales programme were published on 27 January. In the light of the Government commitment to increase protection for access and public benefit in our woodlands, the criteria for these sales will be reviewed so that protections are significantly strengthened following the inadequate measures that were applied to sales under the previous Administration. Pending this review, no individual woodland site will be put on the market.

Agriculture and Fisheries Council

Caroline Spelman Excerpts

Friday 11th February 2011 Written Statements

[The Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Mrs Caroline Spelman)]

My right hon. Friend the Minister of State for Agriculture and Food represented the United Kingdom at the Agriculture and Fisheries Council in Brussels on 24 January.

The presidency presented its work programme highlighting its priorities as CAP reform, the dairy file, the quality package, and reaching agreement on the 1,100 pages of Lisbon alignment legislation. It intended to complete the evaluation of the EU animal welfare policy, and make progress on cloning. It would also make efforts to reach a binding agreement on forests at the Oslo Ministerial at the back end of its presidency. The debate on CFP reform would be a further central feature.

The Commission presented its communication on the health of honey bees outlining the key issues and the main actions that the Commission intended to take to address them. Member states supported the communication and called for further evidence on the possible causes of the increased bee mortalities. The UK welcomed the work, and drew attention to the action being taken in the UK to address bee health problems, and drew attention to recent evidence on possible involvement of neonicotinoid insecticides.

The debate on CAP reform was prepared on the basis of a presidency questionnaire exploring links to the delivery of environmental public goods, green growth and innovation, and agriculture’s contribution to addressing climate security concerns. All member states agreed with the Commission that that the objective was sound but most delegations wished to examine the relative contribution of the two CAP pillars to the Commission’s objective. A number suggested that pursuing green outcomes through pillar 1, either in the form of a top-up payments for areas with natural handicaps or by greening, was inadvisable and would result in administrative burdens. The UK called for additional resources for pillar 2, which could be better targeted at environmental objectives than pillar 1. Others, such as France, were more open to the proposal of a green pillar 1, provided it was mandatory and simple. A large number of member states insisted that the Commission ensure that its proposals delivered on the CAP simplification agenda.

The Commission stressed that the three objectives it had identified in its communication—food security, sustainable management of resources and territorial balance—were interlinked and that a green pillar 1 was necessary in order to achieve EU-wide environmental outcomes from agriculture. The Commission also responded to widespread concerns about CAP simplification, noting that an ad hoc expert group had been established, and would act as a filter for CAP reform proposals. CAP debate would continue at the February Council with a discussion of the Commission’s third objective for CAP reform, territorial balance.

The first item under any other business was the UK presentation of the foresight report, published by the chef scientific adviser, on the future of food and farming. The UK stressed that the report was an important lens through which to study the Commission’s CAP reform proposals. The UK also noted that an event would be organised in Brussels to disseminate and discuss the report’s findings.

Belgium, with the support of Ireland, France, the Netherlands, Germany, Poland, Austria, Slovenia, Portugal, Finland, Romania, Cyprus, Spain, Malta and Hungary, rehearsed its concerns about a crisis in the pigmeat sector, calling once more for the introduction of private storage aid (PSA), and the creation of a high-level group. Taking a more accommodating line than previously, the Commission agreed to open PSA but remained reluctant to raise expectations in the sector by establishing a high-level group. It would continue with plans for discussion in the enlarged advisory group, urging the presidency to discuss the group’s findings at SCA in April, with a view to recommending an appropriate policy response to the Commission in advance of its adopting CAP reform proposals.

The Commission gave a brief tour of the situation on international markets. It noted on the DDA negotiations that there was a positive mood in WTO circles for attempting once more to conclude the round. The Commission also put forward a number of suggestions for addressing price volatility in the context of the French presidency of the G20. Instruments were needed to address price volatility, as experienced showed that prices remained volatile even where there was no shortage of physical stocks. The Commission wanted more transparency in terms of market data, improved quality of data, and a forum for discussion. It wanted to have more reliability about the availability of emergency stocks, and wanted to press for improved international governance of crises and increased investment in agricultural research. A communication on commodities, dealing with some of the issues, would be adopted by the Commission in the coming days.

France noted that a number of the issues would be picked up at the G20 Agriculture Ministers meeting 22-23 June, which would lead to the adoption of an action plan at the Cannes Ministerial at the end of the French presidency.

Germany provided an update on the dioxin situation. It estimated that 2,256 tonnes of feed fat had been contaminated, and said that 589 holdings were currently under restriction. Germany also presented its 10-point action plan to improve consumer protection in the animal feed chain, and called for certain actions to be considered at EU level.

The Commission clarified that the current system had worked and that any further measures should remain proportionate. The measures under consideration were the compulsory approval of establishments manufacturing, treating and marketing fats, the strict separation of production streams, reinforced dioxin monitoring, and the extension of reporting obligations to private laboratories. The Commission rejected the positive list and the mandatory liability insurance actions proposed by Germany. Member states felt that there were lessons to be learnt from the incident and supported the Commission’s proposed approach.

Latvia requested EU co-financing to support the cleansing and disinfection of livestock vehicles returning from the Russian Federation, to prevent the introduction of African swine fever. Most member states supported the request made. The Commission would consider different options to provide support and these would be discussed further at expert level.

Oral Answers to Questions

Caroline Spelman Excerpts

Thursday 3rd February 2011 Commons Chamber

[Dr Julian Huppert (Cambridge) (LD)]

7. What plans she has to ensure that access to forests is maintained or improved.

[The Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Mrs Caroline Spelman)]

The public forest estate consultation explores a range of models for the ownership and management of the estate and how important public benefits such as access can be maintained. An example would be how lease conditions could be used to ensure that access and other public benefits are protected.

[Dr Huppert]

In addition to established legal rights of way and Countryside and Rights of Way Act 2000 access rights, will the Secretary of State ensure that there are robust additional protections for access rights that are currently permitted access only, and will she safeguard existing access for bikes and horses?

[Mrs Spelman]

We had a lengthy debate last night in which I made it clear, at length, that permissive access rights are very limited in number and are on land that the public forest estate does not own.

[Barry Gardiner (Brent North) (Lab)]

Will the Secretary of State tell the House the projected figures for the next 10 years for the revenue that will come from the public forest estate? Will that revenue be offset by the benefit to the Exchequer from the sale of such land?

[Mrs Spelman]

Different types of forest are subject to different proposals in our consultation document, which is a genuine consultation. The planned sales—a continuation of the previous Government’s programme—are expected to raise £100 million over the spending review period. That will be part of DEFRA’s overall provision within that period.

[Neil Parish (Tiverton and Honiton) (Con)]

I welcome the Secretary of State’s genuine consultation over the next 11 weeks—12 weeks in all. When will she make a statement to the House after the consultation has finished?

[Mrs Spelman]

First, we need to make it absolutely clear that this is a genuine consultation, unlike a lot of the consultations that I experienced under the previous Government. We want as many people to take part as possible. There is a statutory three-month period; Ministers will reflect on relevant considerations and bring to the House our considered view in a timely fashion.

[Mary Creagh (Wakefield) (Lab)]

Public access is absolutely vital to local communities. The Secretary of State talks about her consultation period, but before that period is over, the Government will start selling off 10,000 hectares of public forest land. That is more than was sold in Labour’s entire period in office. I should like to know what right communities will have to bid for that land. How long will they have to raise the money? Will it be sold as leasehold, and is it correct that the selection for this year deliberately avoids woodlands that give public benefits because the Government want to maximise the capital raised from assets?

[Mrs Spelman]

The criteria for the planned sales are set out in the public domain on the Forestry Commission website. They are a continuation of a programme of sales that have taken place over the past three decades. As the hon. Lady knows, her party’s Government sold off 25,000 acres—[Interruption]—without the protection that this Government will provide.

[Mary Creagh]

Hon. Members cry “Shame,” but we sold that off to reinvest the money in the forest; this money is to be reinvested in flood defence schemes. The land will be sold with no higher rights of public access. Government Members should think very carefully about what is happening. Is it not the case that, on the public forest, the Secretary of State does not know what she is doing, does not know why she is doing it, and nobody wants her to do it? Is it not time to stop and think again?

[Mrs Spelman]

I think the hon. Lady was not listening clearly last night. Ministers have repeatedly given assurances in this House that access and other public benefits will be protected. However, many of the pieces of land that fit the criteria the Forestry Commission has set out do not have access attached to them at present. She should reflect carefully on our public consultation document and gain a better understanding of what happened when Rigg wood was sold off under the conditions set by her party’s Government in their contract: without protection, access is now denied.

[Mr Adrian Sanders (Torbay) (LD)]

8. What steps she is taking to reduce the volume of international trade in ivory.

--- Later in debate ---

[Annette Brooke (Mid Dorset and North Poole) (LD)]

9. What steps she is taking towards reform of the common agricultural policy.

[The Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Mrs Caroline Spelman)]

The Government have recently responded to the European Commission’s communication, “The CAP towards 2020”. Our response calls for ambitious reform of the CAP that will enable farmers to meet the challenges and opportunities of the future.

[Annette Brooke]

I thank the Secretary of State for her answer. The second pillar of the CAP provides essential support to farmers to deliver environmental public goods. Which of the European Commission’s proposed options for reform does she think best balances the need to maintain landscape and diversity with food production and the protection of consumers and taxpayers?

[Mrs Spelman]

The whole of the Commission’s proposed reform of the CAP should address the twin challenges that the hon. Lady describes. Obviously, it is the combination of direct payments and the payments under pillar two—in particular, in this country, the way we use agri-environment stewardship schemes—that balances best the environmental benefits with food production. That is why the coalition Government are committed to increasing by 80% higher level stewardship.

[Jonathan Edwards (Carmarthen East and Dinefwr) (PC)]

The Secretary of State will be aware of the unease among farmers in Wales and the Welsh Government about the UK Government’s current position on CAP reform. Will she inform the House what progress she is making in developing a joint negotiating position?

[Mrs Spelman]

My right hon. Friend the Minister of State and I took the opportunity to invite the Welsh Minister for Agriculture to meet the Commissioner with us as early as June last year. We have had successive meetings with all the devolved Administrations and will continue to do so, as the reform process is likely to take a great deal of time. I find that we have much in common with the Welsh Assembly’s position and believe that there is much that we can do as we negotiate the reform to ensure that we get a good deal for farmers in Wales.

[Geoffrey Clifton-Brown (The Cotswolds) (Con)]

I ought to declare an interest as one of the few practising farmers in this country. [Interruption.] In this Parliament.

Will the Secretary of State, when considering the reform of the CAP, consider that Europe will have an important place in enabling agriculture to feed the world? Will she move away from the CAP’s structural faults, such as the growing of tobacco that is of such poor quality that no one wants to use it, and ensure that those practices are stopped?

[Mrs Spelman]

It is of the utmost importance that farmers in Europe are encouraged to produce more food and to do so sustainably. When we look at the threat to our society globally in relation to food security, it is clear that the nations that have the capacity to increase production sustainably are the ones that we should be fully behind.

[Mr Denis MacShane (Rotherham) (Lab)]

I mean the Secretary of State no harm, but as the second closet European in the Cabinet, does she agree that if we are to reform the CAP it is no use agreeing only across this Chamber? We have to convince our Irish, Spanish, French and Italian friends. The isolation of her party from the main centre-right conservative parties in Europe does not help.

[Mrs Spelman]

I have some good news for the right hon. Gentleman: the coalition agreement states clearly that we desire to be a “positive participant” in Europe. My colleagues and I have set about building alliances in order to secure the reforms that will benefit taxpayers, farmers, consumers and the environment. I am pleased to report that he will find that the position of our traditional friends—the Scandinavian countries and the Netherlands—and that of the German, English and Welsh farming unions is very close. That is the kind of alliance that brings about changes.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Dave Watts (St Helens North) (Lab)]

12. What recent representations she has received on the sale of land managed by the Forestry Commission in England.

[The Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Mrs Caroline Spelman)]

Since the beginning of October, we have received 4,200 representations on the sale of the public forest estate, but most of those were in response to press coverage, not to the real consultation document, which was published on 27 January.

[Mr Watts]

Should it not be clear even to this Government that selling off our forests is a bad idea that has no public support? Will the Minister abandon the policy before she is forced to do so because of public pressure?

[Mrs Spelman]

The hon. Gentleman was perhaps not in the House last night, so allow me just to remind him that, in the last few months before the general election, the party of which he is a member published when in government an operational efficiency programme setting out the case for long-term leases of the public forest estate and for getting

“greater commercial benefit from the public forest estate”.

[Harriett Baldwin (West Worcestershire) (Con)]

I have had more representations on this issue than on any other since I was elected—probably about 500 so far. If I send them on to the consultation with a covering letter, can the Secretary of State reassure my constituents that they will all be counted as individual submissions?

[Mrs Spelman]

I can give my hon. Friend that assurance. All hon. Members should actively encourage their constituents to read the genuine consultation document. There has been an awful lot of mythology in the press, and we would welcome responses to the genuine consultation.

[Caroline Lucas (Brighton, Pavilion) (Green)]

Given that 60% of private English forests outside the public forest estate are under-managed, and that only 16% of them meet Forestry Stewardship Council standards, compared with 100% of Forestry Commission woodland, are not the public absolutely right to oppose this sell-off, which puts high levels of access and biodiversity at risk?

[Mrs Spelman]

I do not accept that it puts biodiversity at risk. That is something that I am particularly committed to enhancing and improving, as is set out in the proposals. The hon. Lady’s point will remind everybody that the public forest estate covers only 18% of woodland. Under the reforms that we propose, the Forestry Commission would continue in a regulatory role, and I would expect it to help us to achieve even higher standards of maintenance in both the public and the private forest.

[Andrew George (St Ives) (LD)]

Bearing in mind the Secretary of State’s concerns about public perception of the consultation proposals, does she agree that now may be the time to provide greater clarity about the conditions governing how the 40,000 hectares announced in the comprehensive spending review will be disposed of?

[Mrs Spelman]

I am happy to provide clarity. The criteria for the continuing sales of land as part of the CSR planned release are published and in the public domain on the Forestry Commission website. They look principally for sites that are less accessible and have a large requirement for expenditure. The criteria are set out in the public domain, and I am sure that the hon. Gentleman can help to point people to the right place.

[Sir Peter Soulsby (Leicester South) (Lab)]

I have read the consultation paper. I have also read the impact assessment, which shows that the selling of our forests and dismantling of the Forestry Commission has nothing to do with the costs or the benefits. We know that the Government are not listening to the big society or the community, because community groups are desperately worried about having to take on responsibility for their woods and forests. I note that today, as yesterday, the Secretary of State has not even mentioned her phoney argument about regulation, because it is so weak. At the heart of this, one question remains: just why is the Secretary of State determined to sell off our precious woods and forests?

[Mrs Spelman]

That was part of last night’s debate. It is clear that the Opposition do not want community groups and charities to be able to take ownership and management. That is clearly a divide between our parties. This is not primarily about cost and benefit. The point about regulation still stands. The Forestry Commission is both the regulator and the largest seller of timber in the market that it regulates. In this day and age, that kind of conflict of interest cannot continue.

[Mr John Baron (Basildon and Billericay) (Con)]

13. What progress has been made in resolving the single payment scheme difficulties experienced by Mr Peter Philpot.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Christopher Chope (Christchurch) (Con)]

T1. If she will make a statement on her departmental responsibilities.

[The Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Mrs Caroline Spelman)]

My Department takes responsibility for safeguarding the environment, supporting farmers and strengthening the green economy. In that context, I am sure that Members of all parties will join me in welcoming the publication of Foresight’s latest report, “Global Food and Farming Futures”. That excellent body of work, co-funded by my Department, is a searching and rigorous assessment of the global food challenges between now and 2050, and I urge all Members to read it.

[Mr Chope]

Why can my right hon. Friend not give an unequivocal guarantee that in any sale of Forestry Commission land, existing public rights of access will be maintained exactly as they are at the moment, whether on or foot, by bicycle or on horseback? The failure of her colleague in the other place to give an unequivocal answer to that question yesterday has increased, not allayed, public suspicion on that subject.

[Mrs Spelman]

The Minister of State, my right hon. Friend the Member for South East Cambridgeshire (Mr Paice), gave precisely that undertaking in the debate last night, and I believe that he has reiterated it today.

[Mary Creagh (Wakefield) (Lab)]

The Campaign for Better Transport today launched a “Save Our Buses” campaign. Its research shows that Cambridgeshire county council is proposing to phase out all council bus services, and that Northamptonshire county council plans to cancel all existing rural services. Can the Minister tell the House what advice he has given the Department for Transport, or what advice has been sought, about the impact of those bus cuts on rural communities and economies?

--- Later in debate ---

[Andrew Bridgen (North West Leicestershire) (Con)]

T2. Does the Secretary of State agree that the new National forest, which covers much of my constituency, is a model of what can be achieved by the private sector and the third sector in delivering excellent access to, and enjoyment of, the amenities of our woodlands?

[Mrs Spelman]

I certainly do. I met representatives of the National Forest Company this week. It is a wonderful model of what can be achieved. It involves schools and volunteers and has achieved a lot of regeneration on former industrial sites.

[Barry Gardiner (Brent North) (Lab)]

T3. Does the Minister agree with the Country Landowners Association that pillar one of the common agricultural policy should increasingly deliver public and environmental goods, or does he agree with the National Farmers Union, which thinks that that would increase costs for farmers, and therefore opposes the idea?

[Graham Evans (Weaver Vale) (Con)]

T4. My constituency is extremely fortunate to have Delamere forest, the largest woodland in Cheshire. Can the Secretary of State assure me, and my constituents, that this Government will always protect public access rights to Delamere forest?

[Mrs Spelman]

Yes, absolutely.

[Mr Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op)]

I would be very disappointed, and so would my constituents, if the forests and woodland question was diverted into a question of access. It is a question not of access, but of ownership. Deep in the DNA of English people is that for years and years they have been fed up because they have been told, “You can come, by our grace and favour, and walk on our land, but you can’t own it.”

[Mrs Spelman]

It is a question of both ownership and access. As I explained to the House yesterday, when the hon. Gentleman’s party was in government, it also looked at both ownership and access.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Dennis Skinner (Bolsover) (Lab)]

We hear today that farmers and many others are not able to get hold of grants from the banks to further their causes. In the light of that, will the Secretary of State tell the banks that under no circumstances will they be able to buy forests?

[Mrs Spelman]

We have made it perfectly clear that the Forestry Commission has a duty and a responsibility, with any of the planned sales of the public forest estate, to satisfy itself that those who wish to buy are qualified to do so and have the necessary expertise to safeguard the high standards of protection of the environment and its biodiversity, public access and other public benefits.

[Angie Bray (Ealing Central and Acton) (Con)]

T7. In my constituency we are delighted that our work against dangerous dogs and their owners has been recognised by DEFRA, and that the borough of Ealing has been selected to pilot the dog ASBOs—or “dogbos”. Can the Minister give us further details on how those are intended to work?

[Mark Durkan (Foyle) (SDLP)]

The Secretary of State earlier used warm tones in promising future positive engagement with the devolved Administrations on the future of the CAP. Will that engagement be on the basis of DEFRA continuing to ignore the deeply held views of the devolved Administrations on the future of pillar one?

[Mrs Spelman]

We have been proactive in our engagement with all the devolved Administrations, and recognise the importance of direct payments to farmers. It is that assurance that the devolved Administrations are seeking, and I confirm that Ministers understand the challenges of farming in less favoured areas and will defend those interests.

[Simon Hart (Carmarthen West and South Pembrokeshire) (Con)]

T8. Can the Minister offer any help and support to the monks of Caldey island off the south Pembrokeshire coast in their attempts to introduce the red squirrel to their island?

--- Later in debate ---

[Chi Onwurah (Newcastle upon Tyne Central) (Lab)]

Kielder forest, which will provide the bulk of the income under the Government’s plans to sell off our national heritage, is home to 31 sites of special scientific interest, as well as red squirrels and ospreys, yet the Government consultation classifies it simply as “commercial”. What guarantees can the Secretary of State give us that the public interest and conservation interests will be met in perpetuity, given that the forest is classified as commercial?

[Mrs Spelman]

We need to be perfectly clear that Kielder forest is predominantly commercial, but that it retains within it sites of special scientific interest and other recreational amenities that will be protected by the conditions set in the leases—in addition to the legislation that protects such things—if that is the outcome that arises from the proposals under consultation.

[George Freeman (Mid Norfolk) (Con)]

Following the very important recommendations laid out in last week’s Foresight report on the role of agricultural research in tackling climate change and promoting food security, what representations can the Secretary of State make to our European colleagues to ensure that we have a regime in Europe that encourages agricultural innovation?

[Mrs Spelman]

We regularly raise these issues with a number of European Commissioners, not just with the Directorate-General for Agriculture and Rural Development. I have often commended the work of the report to European Agricultural Commissioners for the warning that it gives to the food, farming and research community of the twin challenges of environmental change and food security that mean that we have to use all our endeavours to build the capacity in European agriculture to produce more food sustainably for a hungry world.

Public Forest Estate (England)

Caroline Spelman Excerpts

Wednesday 2nd February 2011 Commons Chamber

[The Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Mrs Caroline Spelman)]

I beg to move an amendment, to leave out from “House” to the end of the Question and add:

“deplores the actions of the previous administration in selling off 25,000 acres of public forestry estate with wholly inadequate protections; notes that the previous administration sought to go even further in finding ways to exploit the forestry estate for commercial gain as recently as 2009; welcomes the consultation proposals to guarantee the future protection of heritage forests by offering them charitable trust status; supports the consultation proposals for robust access and public benefit conditions that will be put in place through lease conditions, including access rights for cyclists and horse-riders; believes the leasehold conditions regarding biodiversity and wildlife conservation will safeguard significant important environmental benefits; sees these proposals as important in resolving the conflict of interest whereby the Forestry Commission is the regulator of the timber sector whilst being the largest operator in the England timber market; considers that debate on the future of the forest estate ought to be conducted on the basis of the facts of the Government’s proposals; and believes that under these proposals people will continue to enjoy the access and benefits they currently have from the woodlands of England.”

Clearly, the hon. Member for Wakefield (Mary Creagh) has not read our consultation document. For example, sites of special scientific interest are included, and there were many other inaccuracies in her speech. At least we now have an opportunity to nail some of myths that have been peddled on this issue. Of course it is an important function of Her Majesty’s Opposition to hold the Government to account, but they should do so on the basis of facts, not fiction. Let us start, then, with some plain facts about our proposals.

First, we are consulting on proposals to create a new heritage forest status, whereby our most precious national assets are given over to charitable trusts, giving them far greater protection and financial security than they have ever had. Secondly, we propose to uprate massively protections for public access and other public benefits by replacing the freehold sales that took place under the last Government and moving instead to leaseholds that provide better protection for access and other public benefits.

[Several hon. Members]

rose—

[Mrs Spelman]

I will give way, but I have listened to a lot of myths, so let me set the record straight first.

Thirdly, we propose to give community groups and civic organisations the opportunity to own or manage their local forests if they wish—and why should they not have this opportunity? Fourthly, we are opening up the commercial functions of the Forestry Commission to other operators on a leasehold basis so that their commercial potential is realised alongside the need to protect public benefits.

[Angela Smith]

rose—

[Hugh Bayley]

rose—

[Mrs Spelman]

I will give way in a minute.

Fifthly, we are refocusing the work of the Forestry Commission so that rather than devoting expertise and resources to commercial activities that should not be performed by Government, it can focus on conducting research on combating the challenges of new tree diseases, maintaining and enforcing access rights, providing expert advice, giving grants, and discharging its duty as a regulator.

[Angela Smith]

Will the right hon. Lady add to that list of facts an agreement on the part of the Government to guarantee the current permissive access provisions granted by the Forestry Commission on its lands?

[Mrs Spelman]

Permissive rights apply to 2,000 hectares of the public forest estate, which itself accounts for 18% of the woodland cover of the country.

[Hugh Bayley]

Talking of facts, I have here a parliamentary answer given to me by a former forests Minister in 1996. It records that under the previous Conservative Government 209,956 hectares of Forestry Commission land were sold. What proportion of that retained public access, what proportion went to community trusts, and what proportion of the new sales will go to such trusts?

[Mrs Spelman]

In 1996 I was not a Member of Parliament. I am dealing with a new policy, and that, it seems, is what Opposition Members are opposing.

What is most saddening about the debate is that rather than setting out her reasons for opposing our measures, the hon. Member for Wakefield insisted on sowing further misinformation and fear about what we are consulting on.

[Several hon. Members]

rose—

[Mrs Spelman]

I will give way in a minute.

The hon. Lady claimed that we were planning to sell the forests for short-term gain. In fact, we are proposing to end the last Government’s policy of selling land and replace it with a leasing policy, specifically to secure access to rights for all—including horse riders, cyclists and other recreational users. The hon. Lady claimed that that was environmental vandalism. In fact, we are introducing more environmental safeguards than existed before. We are providing a once-in-a-generation opportunity to accelerate the recovery of plantations on ancient woodland sites, and enforcing replanting in other woodlands.

[Ian Lavery (Wansbeck) (Lab)]

Will the Secretary of State give way?

[Mrs Spelman]

In a minute.

The Forestry Commission was previously commended for the restoration of ancient woodland sites. It pledged to restore 20,000 hectares of plantations on such sites; it has managed to restore just 2,000 hectares. I have a greater ambition in regard to the restoration and enhancement of biodiversity than the last Government ever entertained.

[Mr Sheerman]

The right hon. Lady produced some very well-crafted words in an earlier paragraph. She referred to an “opportunity” to acquire land. If there is a competition between a private buyer and a community interest, will preference be given to the community buyer, or will it all be decided on the basis of price?

[Mrs Spelman]

Oh, dear: yet another Opposition Member has not actually read the consultation document, which states explicitly that the community will be given preference. Of course people must be given preference when it comes to the woodlands near which they live.

[Tony Baldry (Banbury) (Con)]

Is it not clear from the demeanour of Opposition Members that this is an Opposition knockabout day? Will my right hon. Friend confirm that there will be a three-month consultation period? May we hope that during those three months Ministers will be prepared to listen to serious representations from people who have read the consultation paper and will respond on the basis of facts rather than Opposition knockabout myths?

[Mrs Spelman]

As always, my hon. Friend makes a sensible intervention, pointing out that we are still in the first week of a 12-week consultation. To be kind to Labour Members, a lot of their questions arise from reading media reports, and they would do well to read the consultation document.

The hon. Member for Wakefield claims that people are going to turn up at their local woods only to find them locked up and gated off. The case to which her party leader has consistently referred—that of Rigg wood—has also been mentioned in this debate, but in fact that wood was put up for sale by her Government in April 2010. So perhaps she would like to go to Grizedale to explain to the people of Rigg wood what happened as a result of what her Government did. We, on the other hand, will be guaranteeing access and public benefit rights through the terms of the leases.

[John McDonnell (Hayes and Harlington) (Lab)]

I believe that many people have read the consultation document and have understood the Government’s proposal. Taking the Government at face value on this consultation, if a vast majority of people oppose this proposal, will the Government accede to their wishes?

--- Later in debate ---

[Mrs Spelman]

I have made it very clear that this is a genuine consultation. It is written in an open manner and does not contain leading questions. It invites the hon. Gentleman’s community—his local groups and community groups—to have, for the first time, an opportunity to be involved in the ownership of the woodlands. I suggest that he talks to them about that.

[Geoffrey Clifton-Brown]

Will my right hon. Friend give a guarantee this afternoon that any sale or lease will have cast-iron legal safeguards for all existing rights of way? Will she go further than that by publishing what those rights of way are before a lease or sale takes place, so that local groups will know for evermore what rights they have over their forests?

[Mrs Spelman]

I am very happy to give my hon. Friend that assurance, because we live in an age of transparency and that is what community groups have every right to expect.

[Andrew George (St Ives) (LD)]

Further to the point about a consultation, would my right hon. Friend care to reassure the House that the Public Bodies Bill seeks to establish enabling powers, rather than duties, and that that will fundamentally enshrine the opportunities proposed in the consultation, not force things through?

[Mrs Spelman]

I thank my hon. Friend for that intervention, because it is important to note that when we published the consultation document on 27 January it was accompanied by a written ministerial statement. If Members would like to read it in conjunction with the consultation document, they will find an assurance on this point. We will introduce a general duty for Ministers

“to have regard to the maintenance of public benefits when exercising”

the forestry-related powers and the powers in the Public Bodies Bill. [Interruption.] I am sure that Labour Members would be interested to know what those additional powers of protection are, as they have been making a lot of noise about this.

Secondly, the statement mentions

“exempting the most iconic heritage forests from the full range of options so that”

they

“could only be transferred to a charitable organisation or remain in public ownership”. —[Official Report, 27 January 2011; Vol. 522, c. 17WS.]

That is far more protection than currently exists. If the Labour party would stop holding up the business in the other place, we might get those amendments on the statute book.

Imagine my surprise, then, when I read a document—“Operational Efficiency Programme: Asset Portfolio”, which was published by the previous Government just months before the election—and discovered, on page 54, an explicit reference to the case for the “long-term lease” of the public forestry estate. What about this document—the “Operational Efficiency Programme: final report”? It states clearly that “greater commercial benefit” could be obtained from the public forest estate. And what about this document—“A Strategy for England’s Trees, Woods and Forests”—published by none other than the right hon. Member for South Shields (David Miliband) when he was the Environment Secretary? It makes the case for local communities actively participating in the ownership and management of the public forest estate. Does that not lay completely bare the hypocrisy of the position now being taken by the Opposition? Their synthetic outrage cannot disguise the fact that they already had the public forest estate well and truly in their sights, so let us have no more of this self-righteous indignation.

[Huw Irranca-Davies (Ogmore) (Lab)]

Will the right hon. Lady acknowledge that those options were ruled out of consideration and dismissed? They were dismissed for two very good reasons—first, because they did not add up economically or against cost-benefit analysis, and secondly, because they would not have been accepted by the great British public.

[Mrs Spelman]

And the hon. Gentleman’s party was not accepted by the great British public as being fit to govern this country for the time being.

[Tim Farron]

Taking my right hon. Friend back to Rigg wood and giving reassurance to local populations, our experience with the sale of Rigg wood makes us extremely nervous about the lack of clarity about whether forests within national parks such as the Lake District count as heritage woodland. Will she agree that national park woodlands should all be considered as heritage, and should not be leased or sold?

[Mrs Spelman]

The consultation document sets out different categories of forest and woodland, because the public forest estate is very diverse. The Forestry Commission has published a set of criteria in relation to sales. There is a consultation and I suggest that the hon. Gentleman should make representations as part of that consultation about the category he wants included under the definition of heritage.

[Tessa Munt (Wells) (LD)]

As the right hon. Lady will know, I have been very disappointed that some 100,000 acres is not covered by the consultation that started last Thursday. Will she guarantee for my constituents that the land for sale or lease in that 100,000 acres will be subject to absolute guarantees on protecting and enhancing biodiversity, on maintaining, protecting and improving public access for recreation and leisure, on ensuring the continued and increasing role of woodlands in climate change mitigation—

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dawn Primarolo)]

Order. Goodness me. I would like Members to make their interventions brief, and not take the opportunity of an intervention to make their speech. I call the Secretary of State.

[Mrs Spelman]

Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I can assure the hon. Member for Wells (Tessa Munt) that there are statutory requirements for biodiversity. Planned sales under the spending review—plans that are published—will have greater protection than was afforded under the previous Government. Our objective in the amendment to the Public Bodies Bill is to make sure that we increase protection for access and other public benefits.

[Sir Paul Beresford (Mole Valley) (Con)]

Is my right hon. Friend aware that a similar approach to hers on commercial forests has been extremely successful in New Zealand? The huge Kaingaroa forest—717,000 acres—is now out of Government hands, the land belongs to the Maoris and commercial organisations are doing the trees, with enhanced biodiversity.

[Mrs Spelman]

My hon. Friend’s helpful intervention gives me the opportunity to advise Labour Members that, while the hon. Member for Wakefield made selective choices of countries that have explored other models of ownership and management that involve their local communities, the largest worked examples in the consultation document pertain to Queensland and to New Zealand.

[Several hon. Members]

rose—

[Mrs Spelman]

I would like to make progress.

Now we have some of the facts on the record, perhaps we can have a rather more honest debate about the consultation. Let us recall why the Forestry Commission came about. It was established after the first world war to reduce our reliance on imported timber. Timber was vital—for example, as pit props—at a time when state ownership was the orthodoxy. It was felt that state supply of timber was essential. At the time, timber covered just 5% of the land under the public forest estate, and even over the long period in which the Forestry Commission has been in operation, that has increased to only 8%.

Ninety years later, things have changed. The Forestry Commission still has a role of supplying timber to industry, but the reality is that it accounts for less than 5% of the timber used in England. To be clear, the state is running timber supplies, yet 95% of the timber used is from outside England. That cannot be sustainable.

On top of that, the public forest estate in England operated at a net loss of £16 million last year. If we are to carry on maintaining our forests as we currently do—and in fact improve them, which is what we want to do, so that they have greater biodiversity and environmental value—we need to think about better ways of doing this and invite other organisations to come in and look at how we can put it on a better footing. That, frankly, is no bad thing, not least because the lease terms will secure access and benefits. Does it really have to be the state’s role to sell Christmas trees? I know that the Opposition have taken a lurch to the left, but are they really suggesting that supplying Christmas trees, hosting music concerts and running log cabins should be national industries?

[Mr John Baron (Basildon and Billericay) (Con)]

Public consultations under the Labour Government used to be a complete and utter sham. Can my right hon. Friend give us an assurance that, if the majority of respondents to the consultation express concerns about the policy, she will listen?

[Mrs Spelman]

Of course I can give my hon. Friend that assurance. I was very frustrated during 13 years of opposition by the sham nature of Government consultations. Let us not forget that we are talking about less than 18% of England’s woodland cover. Members will know that the vast majority of our woodlands are not in state ownership, but are still offering outstanding recreational and environmental value. Some are community woodlands. Some are held by organisations such as the National Trust. Some are held by charities. [Interruption.] And yes, many are held by individuals, from farmers to philanthropists. In my view, Opposition scaremongering has been such that they owe a great many of those people an apology for characterising them as being so disinterested in the public benefit. I can only say that I am glad that I am not so cynical about society; it must be a very miserable approach to life.

[Stephen Gilbert (St Austell and Newquay) (LD)]

Does my right hon. Friend accept that the concern in all parts of the House and in all parts of the country is real? Will she acknowledge that it is genuine concern? Will she agree to meet with me and other Liberal Democrat Members to talk about those concerns?

[Mrs Spelman]

The concern has in large part been whipped up on the back of ludicrous speculation in the media. I am confident that, when our constituents have the opportunity to read the consultation document, we will have a much more meaningful discussion about the best way to protect our heritage, woodlands and forest, but of course I would be happy to meet the hon. Gentleman.

Some of the woodlands that we are discussing will be viable and some will not, but I can give the House this assurance: there will be no change in the status of woodland sites unless we are convinced that the access right and public benefits have been protected, and that those wanting to own or manage have the ability to do so. We will not accept second best on that.

[Barry Gardiner (Brent North) (Lab)]

The Secretary of State said that there would be no transfer of woodland unless the protections that she has just mentioned can be put in place. Is she aware that not an hour ago, in Committee Room 18, Simon Hodgson, chief executive of the Forestry Commission, advised the all-party parliamentary conservation and wildlife group that it would not be possible to insist that the same management regime conducted by the Forestry Commission to protect biodiversity would be passed on to any new owner?

[Mrs Spelman]

Simon Hodgson is not the chief executive of the Forestry Commission, he is wrong and his fears are misplaced.

The difference in expressions of interest is perfectly logical because of the diversity in our woodland. There is no one-size-fits-all approach. We will look at what works best for each individual site. Our mixed model approach considers what works best for the different woodlands and how we can apply it in a way that gives greater public benefit.

Our proposals will mean that the nationally important heritage forests will continue to be managed for the benefit of the nation. By pursuing charitable ownership for our most valued heritage sites—for example, the New Forest and the Forest of Dean—the Government are making it clear that they are not for sale. They are secure for future generations to enjoy, and we will give that force of law with amendments to the Public Bodies Bill.

[Dr Julian Lewis (New Forest East) (Con)]

I was interested to hear that my right hon. Friend said that no organisation would be allowed to take over one of those forests unless it was capable of running it. She has heard already the figure of £2.9 million, which is the deficit cost to the Forestry Commission from running the New Forest. What sort of charity would be able to shoulder that deficit?

[Mrs Spelman]

I can give my hon. Friend the same assurance as I have given the National Trust, the Woodland Trust and any new trust that would like to manage our heritage forests for us: we do not expect them to do it for nothing. Let us look at the model of British Waterways. Our canal network is to be moved into the hands of a mutual trust. Obviously, the Government will continue providing running costs to that trust because we understand that it cannot manage the network for nothing.

[Mr Edward Leigh (Gainsborough) (Con)]

The public care about one thing. As a result of these plans, will public access be increased or reduced?

[Mrs Spelman]

I think I have said this, but for the avoidance of doubt, public access and other public benefits will be improved and enhanced as a result of the proposals that we set out in our consultation document.

Having exposed the fact that the previous Government indeed looked at disposal of the public forest estate, I would like the Opposition to hear—[Interruption.] I would like them all to listen. That would be a start. I would like them to hear clearly why it is important to give the opportunity for the heritage forests to pass into the hands of charitable trusts. What we have seen from the evidence of documents from the previous Government is that the forests run the risk of successive Governments continually coming back to the question of how they should be owned and managed. Putting them safely in the hands of charitable trusts, as we propose to do, will mean that they will continue to be managed for the benefit of the nation. Their enhanced status in the hands of charitable trusts will put them beyond the reach of Whitehall politics once and for all.

[Sir Peter Soulsby (Leicester South) (Lab)]

In practice, would not trusts and charitable organisations be absolutely crazy to take on the burden of the New forest, for example? How could they possibly expect to have the fundraising capacity to meet the ongoing costs of managing it appropriately, particularly given the Government’s expectation, clearly stated in their consultation paper, that such gifts to those organisations should move towards self-reliance? They would be crazy to take that on in such circumstances.

[Mrs Spelman]

The hon. Gentleman clearly was not listening to the question asked by my hon. Friend the Member for New Forest East (Dr Lewis). We have made it clear that we would not expect charitable trusts to take these on without the running costs, so the hon. Gentleman’s fear is unfounded. Some smaller, local areas of woodland might fall into heritage status, but for those that do not, we are consulting on whether to offer them to local community groups or charities to take over first and foremost. If no local groups or charities want to take on the leasehold and no suitable buyer with a credible access and environmental protection plan comes forward, the woodland will simply remain in public ownership.

As I have said, for sites that are predominantly commercial in nature, we propose offering long leases with conditions attached. To be clear, there will be no one-size-fits-all approach, no land grabs and no fire sale. Instead, there will be a thoughtful, detailed, long-term programme of reviewing the estate, potentially over 10 years. There will be no rush; it is more important to get this right. We will look at how to improve the rate of recovery of plantations on ancient woodland sites, thereby enhancing biodiversity.

We will look at how the Forestry Commission can work with communities to help them to bid for local woodlands and at how we can actively improve access rights. I am thinking in particular of how we can access resource improvements for people with disabilities. We will look at how we can enable groups who run woodlands to draw down environmental grants in a way that the Forestry Commission currently cannot.

Those are all things that the Forestry Commission, with its expertise and dedication, is perfectly well placed to do. It is where it will really add value. If Members were to ask someone from the Forestry Commission whether they would rather be working with communities to help in the recovery of ancient woodland sites, or shrink-wrapping Christmas trees, what do they think they would say?

[Julie Hilling (Bolton West) (Lab)]

Even if community groups could afford to purchase woodland, why should they if it is already in public ownership? It is rather like a thief stealing a car and then offering to sell it back.

[Mrs Spelman]

As I have tried to point out, and as evidenced in the documents prepared by the previous Government, the fact of the matter is that as long as there are no opportunities for communities in respect of the public forest estate, there is a risk in Whitehall politics. The point about giving the community that lives nearest the forest that opportunity is that they are the most likely to protect it in perpetuity.

This is a really exciting opportunity for our woodlands. We share completely the desire of those who love to walk, cycle, ride, kayak or go ape in our woodlands. I have children and know what a lifeline woodlands are in the long summer holidays. I am certainly not going to deny others the respite that those woodlands gave me, not now and not for future generations. I want to see whether we can improve on the status quo. I want many people to be engaged in the consultation, and I mean genuinely engaged by the facts, not the fiction. This is an opportunity to do things better. If access rights, public benefits and environmental protections are not the same or better, we will not make any changes. I believe that they can be better, that they should be better and that the consultation points the way to making them better.