Welsh Affairs
Alun Cairns Excerpts(3 years, 2 months ago)
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Alun Cairns (Vale of Glamorgan) (Con)
I echo the comments made about Hywel Francis, and my sympathies go to his family, particularly his daughter, who was in the same class as me at school.
This debate comes at a time when many claim that the Union of the UK is under pressure. I am more optimistic in that the benefits of the Union have really come to the fore this year, with the unprecedented financial assistance to businesses, families and the devolved Administrations, as we have heard; the combined might of the UK to research and source vaccines; and the benefit of the stability from the borrowing capacity that only the UK Government could achieve on world markets. These benefits to our four nations are recognised widely among the public, in spite of the ever-noisy demands for independence regularly exaggerated by the BBC.
Separate to those issues, however, I was previously concerned that Whitehall’s approach to the nations was feeding calls for greater separation. The “devolve and forget” attitude became endemic among officials after 1999, with responsibilities simply passed on to the devolved Administrations irrespective of whether a four-nation approach would deliver better outcomes. Central to that is the Treasury. On the one hand it was keen to act positively and, rightly, increase resources for Wales. We adjusted the Barnett settlement and introduced a funding floor, resulting in Wales receiving £120 for every £100 spent in England—much higher than under Labour. That was done out of respect for devolution—recognising the need but not interfering—but it missed the point. Wales needed an active interest from Whitehall Departments, and that is why I argued for the UK shared prosperity fund to be established at the outset and for funds to be retained for its implementation.
Recent announcements on the shared prosperity fund and, yesterday, the levelling-up fund are such good news for communities in Wales—the strength of the Union coming to support areas that have been left behind. My request is that that needs to be followed through. The allocation of funding and the power to spend are fundamental, and the Government should be congratulated. However, we still need an active interest from Whitehall in understanding and delivering for communities in Wales. In my constituency, there is a desperate need for a railway station in St Athan and a marina in Barry as part of my regeneration plans and ambitions. Those issues have been rejected by the Welsh Government, and until now the UK Government have had no means by which to step in. I want those two projects to be at the top of the Secretary of State’s spending list.
Oral Answers to Questions
Alun Cairns Excerpts(4 years, 2 months ago)
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Alun Cairns (Vale of Glamorgan) (Con)
The Secretary of State for Wales (Simon Hart)
I was fortunate enough to visit St Athan last week, where I met my right hon. Friend the Member for Vale of Glamorgan (Alun Cairns) and military personnel. My officials have been working closely with Ministry of Defence and Welsh Government officials to secure the future of bases in Wales, and they are making good progress with St Athan.
Alun Cairns
MOD St Athan has been designated a key element of the defence estate across the United Kingdom, but the Welsh Government are refusing our armed forces ongoing use of their existing site. Will the Secretary of State impress on the First Minister the importance not only of the economic benefits that the armed forces bring to the community but of the role that they play in the defence of our nation?
Simon Hart
I can absolutely offer that guarantee, and I can go a little bit further. The blockage between the MOD and the Welsh Government has started to loosen, and there now seems to be some progress. I very much hope that we can achieve the objective that my right hon. Friend wants, which is a substantial military footprint at St Athan.
Legislative Programme
Alun Cairns Excerpts(4 years, 6 months ago)
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The Secretary of State for Wales (Alun Cairns)
The legislative programme for the Second Session was outlined by Her Majesty on Monday 14 October. This statement provides a summary of the programme and its application to Wales. It does not include draft bills, Law Commission bills or Finance Bills.
The legislative programme will deliver important reform to domestic issues and deliver benefits across the whole of the United Kingdom. The programme includes a series of ambitious reforms and brings forward measures to support citizens across all the nations of the United Kingdom. The Government believe strongly in upholding the constitutional integrity of the United Kingdom—our union is at its strongest when all four nations work together.
The Government have taken the necessary steps to ensure the UK leaves the EU with certainty, continuity and control by working to deliver an unprecedented programme of legislation to date, preparing for all scenarios. The second session legislative programme will build on this by seizing the opportunities EU exit brings.
The Government expect that the return of powers from the EU will lead to a significant increase in the decision-making powers for the Devolved Administrations. It will mean that decisions and powers sit in the right place and closer to people than ever before
The following Bills will apply to Wales (either in full or in part):
Agriculture Bill
Animal Welfare (Sentencing) Bill
Air Traffic Management and Unmanned Aircraft Bill
Birmingham Commonwealth Games Bill
Divorce, Dissolution and Separation Bill
Domestic Abuse Bill
Employment (Allocation of Tips) Bill
Environment Bill
European Union (Withdrawal Agreement) Bill
Extradition (Provisional Arrest) Bill
Financial Services Bill
Fisheries Bill
Foreign National Offenders Bill
Health Service Safety Investigations Bill
High Speed Rail 2 (West Midlands - Crewe) Bill
Immigration and Social Security Co-ordination (EU Withdrawal) Bill
Medicines and Medical Devices Bill
Pension Schemes Bill
Police Protections Bill
Prisoners (Disclosure of Information About Victims) Bill
Private International Law (Implementation of Agreements) Bill
Sentencing Bill
Serious Violence Bill
Telecommunications Infrastructure (Leasehold Property) Bill
Trade Bill
Windrush Compensation Scheme (Expenditure) Bill
The Government will continue to work constructively with the Welsh Government to secure the legislative consent of the National Assembly for Wales where appropriate.
[HCWS6]
Ford in Bridgend
Alun Cairns Excerpts(4 years, 11 months ago)
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The Secretary of State for Wales (Alun Cairns)
With your permission, Mr Speaker, I would like to make a statement about the future of Ford’s engine plant in Bridgend, south Wales.
On Thursday, Ford announced the start of a consultation with its unions concerning the potential closure of the Ford Bridgend engine plant in south Wales. I am not going to understate what a bitter blow this is to the 1,700 skilled and dedicated workers at Ford in Bridgend and their families, to the many more people and businesses who supply the plant, and to the town of Bridgend and the wider community. Our focus will be on working with Ford and the unions to understand the challenges and opportunities and to gain the best possible outcomes. I have spoken with the company, the unions and colleagues across the House. Colleagues at Jobcentre Plus are standing ready to provide advice and support to people, if required.
I live close by and absolutely understand the importance of this plant to the local community. The site has been worth over £3 billion to the local economy over the last 10 years. The town of Bridgend has proudly been home for 40 years to a world-class engine manufacturing facility. Ford has relied on Bridgend and Dagenham to supply one third of its total engines worldwide—a fact held with great pride by the employees.
We have known for some time that the production of the Sigma engine was coming to its natural end and that the Jaguar Land Rover contract would not be renewed, but the news that the Dragon engine may no longer be produced in the UK is disappointing, to say the least. It is very disappointing that it could be taken out of the UK and, in fact, out of Europe, to be manufactured in Mexico. That underlines that this was not a decision about Brexit. The decision was about the challenging conditions faced right across the global automotive sector.
Bridgend has been particularly impacted by the downturn in Ford’s share of the passenger vehicle market in Europe, with volumes of the new Dragon engine falling significantly below the installed capacity at the site. Ford is restructuring its business across Europe to significantly decrease structural costs and allow for investment in future electrification. To that end, it is optimising its European manufacturing footprint and reducing operations in France, Germany and Spain. Bridgend is significantly underutilised, with projections of the number of engines that it will produce falling far below what would be commercially viable in a single plant. Bridgend also faces a significant cost disadvantage compared with other Ford facilities around the world building the same engine.
I have spoken to my right hon. Friend the Business Secretary, colleagues in the Welsh Government, the trade unions and other representatives since Ford’s announcement last week. The Business Secretary and I have spoken with local Members of Parliament, too. Together, we will continue to engage with all stakeholders and elected representatives. Although the hon. Member for Bridgend (Mrs Moon) cannot be in the Chamber today, I spoke with her on Friday.
We in the UK Government are committed to working closely with the Welsh Government and the local community to ensure that south Wales’s justified reputation as a place of industrial excellence in manufacturing and technology is maintained and expanded. On Thursday, the Welsh Government’s Minister for Economy and Infrastructure announced the establishment of a taskforce to work with partners over the difficult weeks and months ahead to find a sustainable, long-term solution for the plant and its workforce. UK Government Departments and I will play a full and active part in that body. That builds on the existing group that has been working jointly since it was confirmed that the Jaguar Land Rover engine would end in 2020. It is important that it builds on the Honda taskforce, working together to support the automotive industry in general.
We are already looking at opportunities to attract new investment to the area. I remain optimistic that south Wales is an attractive proposition and place for industry to operate from. In fact, over the last two years, I have been in Japan, China and the USA to promote the opportunities that Wales presents for the advanced manufacturing sector and our modern industrial strategy. Last year, Aston Martin announced that it will bring the production of the DBX vehicle there, which will create 750 jobs for St Athan. Last September, it announced a further £50 million investment that will make south Wales the home of its electric vehicle range.
I and many other colleagues across the House have worked hard over the last three years to make the case for investment in Britain. Despite the devastating news for south Wales operations, Ford’s commitment to the UK will remain as a major employer of some 10,000 people, with other significant operations in the country, including Ford’s technical centre in Dunton, Essex, which is home to Ford’s European market-leading commercial vehicle business; Ford’s engine facility in Dagenham, where it will continue to produce diesel engines; Ford’s mobility innovation office in London, where it will develop future mobility solutions in Europe; and the Halewood transmission plant, producing transmissions for cars such as the Ford Fiesta.
It remains the case that Ford, as an American company with a century-long history of operating successfully in the UK, undoubtedly recognises our international reputation as a place to do business, with skilled and innovative staff, access to innovation and a strong determination to make those strengths even greater in the years ahead. This is the Government’s ambition, as is well evidenced by the steps we have most recently taken to build on the successes of our automotive sector deal.
Our Advanced Propulsion Centre has awarded grants worth more than £800 million to more than 150 organisations across the UK. Just last month, the Under-Secretary of State for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy, my hon. Friend the Member for Pendle (Andrew Stephenson), announced a further £28 million of support to further enhance our UK Battery Industrialisation Centre, giving investment of more than £100 million in a world-leading facility to enable industry and academia to put the UK at the forefront of bringing battery technologies from the lab into the next generation of vehicles to drive on our streets. Working with industry, £80 million of investment through our driving the electric revolution programme will see support for innovation in electric motor technologies.
We are determined to ensure that the UK remains one of the most competitive locations in the world for automotive and other advanced manufacturing. The announcement of this consultation by Ford is a disappointing blow, but the Government’s bold mission to put the UK at the forefront of the design and manufacturing of zero emission vehicles presents significant new opportunities for the UK. That includes new industries and ventures that will be well suited to the skills and expertise of those dedicated workers at Ford and their suppliers. I remain committed to ensuring that Bridgend and other parts of Wales benefit from that work. We will continue to work with the Welsh Government and our many partners across the industry as we seize the opportunity for Britain to provide great jobs and careers for hundreds of thousands of people across our country in the years ahead. I commend the statement to the House.
Christina Rees (Neath) (Lab/Co-op)
I thank the Secretary of State for advance sight of his statement.
Last Thursday’s news of the closure of the Ford plant in Bridgend was absolutely devastating for the exceptional workforce, their families, the town of Bridgend and the wider south Wales community. As a former Bridgend county borough councillor, I completely understand. It is absolutely devastating for the businesses in Ford’s supply chain and the tens of thousands employed in them, and it is absolutely devastating for the automotive sector, UK manufacturing and our entire economy. Ford must rethink its plans to strip away 1,700 highly skilled, quality jobs from the area, and the UK Government must do all they can to support those dedicated workers.
This news is disastrous for all concerned. The chaos caused by the Tory Government’s calamitous handling of Brexit, coupled with the Secretary of State’s continuing inability to stand up for Wales, has allowed Ford to deliver a hammer blow to the workers in Bridgend and the Welsh economy. This is a betrayal of the hard-working and loyal staff who have been committed to delivering savings in making the Bridgend plant one of the most efficient in the world.
It is clear that Ford needs urgently to reverse this treacherous decision and to stand by the highly skilled workforce in Bridgend, rather than chasing profits via cheaper markets in places such as Mexico and India. It is disgraceful that Ford no longer produces a single vehicle in the UK despite its growing market share of car sales. Companies such as Ford originally chose to locate production plants in the UK because it was renowned for its skilled workforce and seen as economically stable compared with other turbulent markets across the world, but the Government’s botched Brexit has changed this. It is causing chaos and uncertainty and undermining business confidence.
Ford is just the latest in a long list of companies, including Airbus, Nissan, Honda and Jaguar Land Rover, to halt investment, cut jobs or close plants as a direct result of this uncertainty. We know that the Tory Government offered Nissan a deal. Was Ford offered a deal? There can be no doubt that this Government’s reckless threats of no deal, accelerated by a self-indulgent leadership contest with hard-Brexit contenders, is having an impact on business decisions across the UK, not just in Wales. Yet again, this is catastrophic news for Wales—news that has come as a direct result of UK Government shortcomings where Wales is concerned and that follows their shortcomings on rail electrification, the Swansea Bay tidal lagoon and the steel industry. This is just one of a string of failures on the Secretary of State’s watch. I call on him to apply pressure on Ford to do the right thing and rethink its catastrophic plans.
I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Bridgend (Mrs Moon) for all the work that she has done to support the plant and its workforce, now and in many previous years. I also thank my hon. Friend the Member for Ogmore (Chris Elmore)—who represents the neighbouring constituency—for all that he is doing to support the many hundreds of people in the area who are being affected. I thank other Welsh Labour Members whose constituents work at Bridgend Ford and in its supply chain, and I thank the trade unions.
The automotive industry is the backbone of our manufacturing sector, supporting highly skilled, quality employment and making an enormous contribution to our economy, but its future, in Bridgend and across the UK, is in jeopardy. I call on the Secretary of State to do now what he has failed to do previously and stand up for Wales. He must speak with Cabinet colleagues to seek the financial support and stimulus which will match what has already been committed by the Welsh Government.
Alun Cairns
I thank the hon. Lady for her comments, but I must express disappointment in the tone that she chose to take, which contrasted with the tone adopted by both the Welsh Government and the unions.
Earlier, the Business Secretary and I spoke to Ken Skates, the unions and many local Members of Parliament as part of a communications plan to share our ambitions and discuss the steps that we will take before the taskforce meets, hopefully later this week. Ken Skates and I will be joint vice-chairs of that taskforce and there will also be a chair from industry. That demonstrates the joint approach that we are taking, in a constructive way, recognising that this is a commercial decision made by Ford because of the change in the marketplace caused by the shift from petrol and diesel engines to electric vehicles. I commend the Welsh Government for the joint working that they have demonstrated so far, and I commend the unions for their engagement and the tone that they have adopted in the discussions.
Like many other Members, the hon. Lady pointed to Brexit. Those Members are being somewhat selective. It is right that the manufacturing sector, in particular, seeks a stable economic environment from which to export to the European market, but Ford was a strong supporter of the Prime Minister’s deal, which the Labour party chose to vote against. Whatever uncertainty exists over the Brexit negotiations, I think that the hon. Lady and other Labour Members need to accept their responsibility. They played a part in that. They have been highly selective in quoting comments and recommendations from Ford.
The hon. Lady was right to say that this is a highly efficient plant with a very skilled workforce. We will continue to work to attract investment in the site, be it from Ford—although we have not succeeded in doing that since the Jaguar Land Rover engine contract was announced—or others. We will also engage with other potential investors in the Brocastle site, which is adjacent to the Ford plant. We are in discussion with some potential investors at a mature stage, but it will be up to those organisations to make the final decision about whether to invest. We are in discussion with other organisations in the automotive sector that could provide exciting opportunities. We all recognise the skill and the quality of the workforce. The potential investors recognise it, which is why they are engaging so positively with us and with the Welsh Government. I also underline that Ford job losses are also taking place in Europe: there have been 5,000 job losses in Germany as well as job losses and shift changes in Spain.
In closing my response to the hon. Lady, I remind her that there are now 100,000 more manufacturing jobs in the UK economy and 13,000 more manufacturing jobs in Wales than there were in 2010.
David T. C. Davies (Monmouth) (Con)
Does my right hon. Friend welcome the fact that so many politicians in Cardiff Bay and London who only last week were proclaiming climate change emergencies and competing for who could demand the fastest possible ban on petrol and diesel engines have suddenly become champions of the manufacturing of petrol and diesel engines in this country?
Alun Cairns
My hon. Friend makes an important point and highlights the shift taking place in the industry from petrol and diesel engines to electric vehicles. Some manufacturers are trying to catch up with the fast-changing consumer demand, but it is absolutely right that the UK is at the forefront of this technology, which is why we are investing so much in the sector to ensure we are active in the next generation of motor vehicles.
Alan Brown (Kilmarnock and Loudoun) (SNP)
I thank the Secretary of State for early sight of his statement. May I say on behalf of the SNP that our thoughts are clearly with the workers at Bridgend and those in the supply chain?
My constituency has suffered severe losses in manufacturing over the years, so I fully understand the devastating impact this can have on local communities, including the knock-on effects on shops and service providers. What supply chain impact assessment has been done as a result of the decision by Ford? What funding guarantees can be given to match Government actions, rather than just warm words?
The Secretary of State said that Brexit is not responsible for this decision, but Ford was one of the companies that warned of the dangers of a no-deal Brexit, so when will this Government rule out a no-deal Brexit to stop any further job losses in the manufacturing sector?
Alan Brown
I have a few more questions.
The Secretary of State said in his statement that Bridgend faces cost disadvantages compared with other Ford plants doing the same work. How long has this cost disadvantage issue been known about and what opportunities have the Government looked at to overcome that and to support the plant? What opportunities have been identified by the existing working group, formed in 2018, to plug the gap by the loss of the Jaguar Land Rover contract and how will the new taskforce build on that and identify the much bigger gap and challenge that needs to be overcome? What future investment will the UK Government make to ensure there are no further cost disadvantages to any companies located in this area? The Secretary of State also said they were already looking at opportunities for investment in the area, so can he give timescales for positive announcements on the opportunities that have been identified?
I understand why the Secretary of State gave assurances about the other Ford plant operations across the UK, but how robust are those assurances? Padding out his statement by mentioning a £28 million investment in Coventry, £800 million in UK-wide grants from the Advanced Propulsion Centre and £80 million for the electric revolution programme is of absolutely no comfort to the Bridgend workers. What we need to hear is that the right actions are being taken now, not platitudes.
Alun Cairns
The hon. Gentleman raises an important point about supply chains and that was considered as part of our conference call discussing the formation of the taskforce. Work is undergoing to map the suppliers who supply Ford in Bridgend. We plan to then cross that over with the same work that is being done in relation to Honda in Swindon. A supplier might well be able to manage better the hit from one automotive manufacturer. The hit from two could obviously cause greater challenges and we want to work to respond to that. On funding, whatever support has been provided to the suppliers to Honda in Swindon is equally available to those who supply Ford in Bridgend.
The hon. Gentleman again points to Brexit, but I say to him that the automotive sector was a strong supporter of the deal the Prime Minister and the Government have agreed with the European Commission. The hon. Gentleman would do well to heed all of the sector’s message, if it wants to repeat some of the statements that it has made.
In relation to opportunities, the Government are investing significantly in the next generation of automotive vehicles not only through UK Government public funds but through attracting private investment in this field. Some of these investors are looking at locations in Europe and in the UK, and those are the organisations that we are naturally engaging with to ensure that the UK continues to play an active part at the forefront of this sector.
John Redwood (Wokingham) (Con)
Will the Government now review the very high vehicle excise duties they have imposed, as well as the squeeze on car loans and the regulatory uncertainty about buying new petrol and diesel, because these are all factors that have done a lot of damage to demand and output in the UK car industry?
Alun Cairns
My right hon. Friend makes the important point that Europe faces similar challenges. I have already pointed to the 5,000 jobs that have been lost in the automotive sector in Germany, and we are seeing similar challenges in Spain and elsewhere. Many of these issues are being driven by consumer demand, but some are being driven by regulation, and I think every regulator needs to reflect on the demands from the climate change challenge together with the risks that it poses in the short term until the technology catches up.
Chris Elmore (Ogmore) (Lab)
I should like to start by welcoming the Secretary of State’s statement, and I thank him and the Business Secretary for the constructive way in which they have engaged with me as the Member for the neighbouring constituency, in which a large majority of the workforce actually live, and with my hon. Friend the Member for Bridgend (Mrs Moon). We have been meeting the workforce and the unions over the weekend, and I welcome the way in which they are working with the Welsh Government.
It is reassuring to hear the Secretary of State say that he is willing to work in the taskforce and to do all he can to help to support the workforce, but can he set out here and now what he will do if there is a need for UK Government fiscal intervention to protect those jobs and possibly to make Ford change its mind? I believe that Ford still has questions to answer, given that just three weeks ago it was talking about the Dragon line being the most efficient of any of the plants across the world, including in Mexico.
My priority will be the families in my constituency who will be left devastated by this and the communities in my constituency that have not recovered from the de-industrialisation of the 1980s. This really will be a hammer blow to so many of them right across Ogmore, Bridgend, Aberavon and many other constituencies. We need a fiscal stimulus package and an automotive sector deal so that we can protect these jobs and these workers and ensure that these families have some security beyond September 2020.
Alun Cairns
I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for raising those points and for his comments and contributions in the call that we had earlier today. He rightly points out that this is a consultation from Ford, and we will therefore work closely with the unions in challenging the assumptions and statements that Ford has made where we believe them not to be the case.
The UK has a good record of investment in this sector. According to the latest available data, there is a 20% uplift in investment in the automotive sector, which demonstrates that we still remain attractive. We will of course work closely with the Welsh Government on attracting investment to the area, to serve the hon. Gentleman’s constituents and the employees who come from a much wider field than just the community of Bridgend. We remember that there was a Ford plant in Swansea not so long ago and that people travelled to that. The effects therefore stretch much further west, east and north than just the Bridgend site.
The Welsh Government clearly have a responsibility under the devolution settlement for economic developments, but we will continue to work closely with them, as well as with the Department for International Trade, the Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy and the whole might of Whitehall to support the employees by attracting investment to that site.
Mr David Jones (Clwyd West) (Con)
The shadow Secretary of State, the hon. Member for Neath (Christina Rees), has sought to blame Brexit for Ford’s decision, but Stuart Rowley, the European President of Ford, has said in terms that it has nothing to do with Brexit. He has also said that
“if Brexit had never happened, would there be a different decision, and the answer to that is no.”
Does my right hon. Friend not agree that it is particularly regrettable that Opposition Members should seek so cynically to exploit the personal tragedy of 1,700 people for such nakedly political purposes?
Alun Cairns
I am grateful to my right hon. Friend for underlining the points in relation to Brexit, because Ford has stated clearly that Brexit has nothing to do with this decision. Furthermore, there would be more credibility in the Opposition’s points about Brexit if the engine plant was being shifted from the UK to anywhere else in the European Union, but we know that production is being shifted to Mexico. Therefore, I do not think the Brexit argument stacks up, and my right hon. Friend makes an important point that it is disappointing that many people will still refer to Brexit, which will undermine the potential for further investment in the site.
Stephen Kinnock (Aberavon) (Lab)
This is a devastating blow for the workforce, many of whom are from my Aberavon constituency. The Secretary of State keeps saying that the situation in other EU countries is also difficult, but none of them has seen investment in the automotive sector drop by 80% in the past three years. The fact is that this Government are like a driverless vehicle and have been for the past three years. Their botched Brexit and general incompetence have seen confidence drain away from the automotive sector. When will we see a proper industrial strategy that helps the sector move from diesel and petrol to electric?
Alun Cairns
The hon. Gentleman makes an important point about the need to attract investment in this sector, but he is somewhat selective with the data that he presents. All automotive manufacturers have had challenges to meet in relation to changing consumer demand. For example, the UK is leading the way in attracting investment in the sector, and not only in terms of the scale of the money that I have already highlighted. Some 20% of all electric vehicles sold in Europe are manufactured here in the UK, which demonstrates that we are playing a prominent role.
Stephen Crabb (Preseli Pembrokeshire) (Con)
It is true that this sad announcement has come during a once-in-a-hundred-year change within the global automotive sector, and so much of European automotive manufacturing finds itself on the wrong side of that change. Does my right hon. Friend agree that that underlines the need for a proper, joined-up industrial strategy for Wales, linked up between Cardiff and Westminster, with a focus on skills and education, which are not good enough in Wales, on improving transport, which is not good enough in Wales, and on improving and creating a more pro-business environment across the whole of Wales?
Alun Cairns
The UK’s modern industrial strategy clearly sets out the foundation for an approach across the UK that includes the automotive sector deal and other deals across a whole range of sectors, and the Welsh Government’s economic action plan dovetails well with that. However, my right hon. Friend makes an important point that we need to continue to work closely to ensure that the implementation of all that is as efficient as it should be, to be attractive to investors and to avoid extra complication due to the devolved Administrations. My right hon. Friend the Business Secretary, Ken Skates and I talk regularly about our ambitions to attract investment on a joint basis, and we work closely with the Department for International Trade, too.
Jonathan Edwards (Carmarthen East and Dinefwr) (PC)
The Secretary of State has been on an interesting journey from supporting remain during the referendum, when he said that the people of Wales could “suffer enormously” if they voted for Brexit, to supporting the most extreme Brexiteer in the Tory leadership—a reckless no-dealer. The reality is that we have a Secretary of State representing my country who is more interested in his own career than in the jobs of thousands of manufacturers back home in Wales.
Alun Cairns
The hon. Gentleman wants an independent Wales, but I am unsure what opportunities that would create for attracting investment in the Welsh economy. He will be well aware that I am a strong supporter of a deal with the European Union, but I have also stated clearly that maintaining no deal as an option, a challenge and a risk, both for the European Union and for the UK economy, focuses minds on gaining a deal. A deal will also create the best opportunities for the UK and European economies to continue to attract investment and to gain access to one another’s markets.
Jeremy Lefroy (Stafford) (Con)
I will never forget the incredibly warm welcome I was given by my colleagues at Ford in Bridgend when I started there as a foreman in 1980, just a short time after it opened. I view this situation with huge sadness, which is why I urge the Secretary of State and the Business Secretary, who is sitting next to him, to do everything in their power to ensure that this factory continues, whether with Ford or with anybody else. In fact, Ford used to have a strong presence in Wales—not just in Swansea but also at Treforest, where it made sparkplugs. It is a great site, with railway and motorway links, and it must employ at least 1,700 people in the future, if not more, in high-quality manufacturing jobs. It deserves it.
Alun Cairns
My hon. Friend makes an extremely important point and speaks with passion and real understanding based on his experience of having worked at the site. He talks about the warm welcome, but the workforce has responded efficiently since the time he would have been working there to the opportunities to become one of the most efficient engine plants in Europe, which is commendable. There will be a great opportunity to attract further investment to the area not only because of the skills and assets among the workforce, but due to the site’s attractiveness. He mentions connectivity, with the site being close to the motorway, and I would also highlight the railway line that goes directly to the site, which is used to take the engines that are currently manufactured to the midlands and Europe.
Richard Burden (Birmingham, Northfield) (Lab)
The circumstances facing Bridgend are obviously different from those that surrounded the collapse of MG Rover at Longbridge over a decade ago, but I still know something about the impact that the closure of a major car plant can have not only on jobs, but on a community’s sense of identity. The first message from this Chamber must therefore be one of solidarity with the workers of Ford at Bridgend and their families.
May I ask the Secretary of State two things? First, he said that he met the company, so has he suggested any alternatives to closure? If so, what were those alternatives; I did not hear them in his statement? Secondly, while Brexit may not be the immediate cause of this announcement, he knows that it is relevant to virtually every decision that any automotive manufacturer is making at the moment. Is this news not just further evidence that we must avoid no deal at all costs?
Alun Cairns
The hon. Gentleman makes an extremely important point about the sense of identity, and we view those comments positively because of the ownership that is felt in the community around the plant. However, it stretches far wider than that, which is why I was so keen to engage positively with the unions before the announcement became public, and I have also spoken to them on several occasions subsequently. As for challenging the assumptions that Ford has made, we will of course work closely with the unions, which have a better understanding of the actual factors in play within the plant. We will then work in challenging Ford on those issues.
I say to those who seek to try to blame Brexit for the decision that we are working hard to attract investment both to this site and to Wales. Opposition Members seek to misrepresent the position, because Ford has clearly stated that it proposes to take the production of the new engine to Mexico. I hope that people will not want to bring too much politics into the reality of trying to attract investment.
Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab)
The Secretary of State represents the constituency next door to the plant, yet he will not rule out a no-deal Brexit. That is utterly irresponsible and provides the context, even if not the immediate cause, for why the automotive sector in this country, including at Ford in Bridgend, is on the brink, with 10,000 jobs at risk, with 50,000 more in the supply chain. When is he going to show some leadership?
Alun Cairns
Maybe I should answer that question with another question. When will the hon. Gentleman vote for the deal to provide a stable environment in which to continue exporting to the European Union?
Owen Smith (Pontypridd) (Lab)
In February 2019, Ford said explicitly that the possibility of a no-deal Brexit was jeopardising its investment in the UK, including at Bridgend. Ford reportedly said directly to the Prime Minister that she must rule out a no-deal Brexit, lest we lose jobs. Just last week, the head of Make UK, representing manufacturing across this country, said that there is now a direct causal link between the threat of no deal by Conservative Members who are vying for the leadership, including the Secretary of State, and the loss of manufacturing jobs. How many more jobs do we need to lose in Wales and elsewhere before he tells the right hon. Member for Uxbridge and South Ruislip (Boris Johnson) that we must never have a no-deal Brexit?
Alun Cairns
The hon. Gentleman quotes Ford from February, but I can quote Ford from before each and every meaningful vote in this House. It is strange that he is happy to heed Ford’s calls when it suits him but did not respond to its calls to vote in favour of the deal that the Prime Minister agreed with the European Commission. On job numbers, I point to the record job creation numbers we have seen in Wales in recent times, which compare favourably with when his party was in government.
Nick Smith (Blaenau Gwent) (Lab)
Some 27% of our output in the Gwent valleys comes from manufacturing, and some of our leading employers in Blaenau Gwent are in the automotive sector. Can the Secretary of State guarantee that Ford workers and suppliers will get the same package of financial support that was offered to Honda just up the M4?
Alun Cairns
Yes, I can. I have already stated that the support made available to Honda and its supply chain will be available to Ford and its supply chain. The hon. Gentleman makes an important point about the manufacturing sector, which is extremely important to the Welsh economy. I am sure he shares in the recognition that there are now 13,000 more manufacturing jobs in Wales than there were in 2010.
Jessica Morden (Newport East) (Lab)
Ford’s announcement is indeed a bitter blow for workers at Bridgend and will be felt across south Wales, and all our efforts should be put into supporting those who are affected. With the car industry in crisis, the steelworkers I met on Friday at Cogent, owned by Tata, want the Government to be proactive in helping to develop and support the supply chain for electric vehicles. Companies like Orb have the workforce and the expertise, but what will the Government do to support such companies through the industrial strategy for the future of this industry?
Alun Cairns
The hon. Lady highlights the £1.1 billion that has been made available through a range of schemes, including the Faraday challenge, the Stephenson challenge, the autonomous vehicle initiative and the advanced Propulsion Centre. These schemes are available to companies across the whole UK, and many Welsh organisations are making active use of them.
Nick Thomas-Symonds (Torfaen) (Lab)
Whether in terms of its impact on just-in-time manufacturing, on tariffs or, indeed, on regulatory alignment, no deal would be a disastrous outcome for manufacturing. Does the Secretary of State agree that anyone who wishes to keep that outcome on the table as a credible option simply is not putting Wales first?
Alun Cairns
Steven Armstrong, the head of Ford Europe, explicitly said:
“It’s important that we get the agreement ratified that’s on the table at the moment.”
I was happy to vote for that agreement. Was the hon. Gentleman?
Albert Owen (Ynys Môn) (Lab)
I join the Secretary of State in praising the Welsh Government and the trade unions for the tone they set over the weekend. My thoughts are with the families.
The Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy Committee has looked into Brexit and the effect it will have on the manufacturing sector. The automotive sector was very clear that the current deal suits it and that no deal would be an absolute disaster. The Secretary of State has a responsibility today, in making this statement, to give assurances to the Welsh workforce that he will rule out no deal. Will he tell his favoured candidate that that is what the ultimate representatives are saying? Let him not ignore them.
Can we have an industrial strategy that is nimble enough to help those affected by these closures, liquidations and, yes, suspensions, which are becoming a trend?
Alun Cairns
The hon. Gentleman points to the statements from the motor manufacturing sector that the current deal suits the sector.
Alun Cairns
The hon. Gentleman talks about remaining in Europe, but the sector strongly supports the deal that the Prime Minister negotiated with the European Commission. The Government and I responded positively to the sector’s statements. Perhaps he should have also supported the sector and responded to it at that time, too.
Tonia Antoniazzi (Gower) (Lab)
A constituent of mine, like many other workers, has been back to the plant today and took the time to message me. He says that Ford is telling the workers that the plant is no longer viable. This is a bitter pill to swallow because the UK has been one of Ford’s best markets throughout the years. The employees feel that the plant has been manipulated by Ford into no longer being viable.
I have two questions for the Secretary of State. In a potential post-Brexit United Kingdom, where will the 1,700 jobs in south Wales—plus the impact on the supply chain—come from? Moreover, will he explain why he believes that the right hon. Member for Uxbridge and South Ruislip (Boris Johnson) will be the saviour of the future prosperity and wellbeing of the people of Wales? I and many of my colleagues believe that actions speak louder than words, and the only words I have heard from the Secretary of State today are potential, not action.
Alun Cairns
The hon. Lady asks where the jobs will come from, which is a reasonable and fair question. We work closely with the unions and the Welsh Government in seeking to exploit every opportunity to attract investment to the site, be it from Ford or from any other manufacturer or organisation. The UK’s industrial strategy clearly sets out ambitions for the UK to become a leader in the next generation of automotive. The Advanced Propulsion Centre, the Stephenson challenge and the Faraday challenge, from which Welsh companies are already significantly benefiting, highlight why we have seen such a sharp uplift in investment in the sector for the latest full-year statistics that are available, and for the opportunities that come thereafter.
I have already highlighted what Ford has said, but I can also point to Aston Martin, McLaren and Toyota. So many organisations that either operate or are based in Wales, or elsewhere in the UK, strongly support the deal that the Prime Minister has negotiated, but the hon. Lady chose to vote against it, which I find very disappointing.
Frank Field (Birkenhead) (Ind)
Although the whole House is concentrating on the actions that the Government should take to save jobs at Bridgend, this news sends a chill down the spine of all car workers in this country and of those in the supply chain. I have workers at Vauxhall who must be very concerned. The Secretary of State said earlier that he is working closely with the Business Secretary. Will the two of them bring before the House, as soon as possible, the proactive moves they are now making to save car jobs in this country so that we do not have another appalling statement like this one?
Alun Cairns
I am grateful to the right hon. Gentleman for making those points. The investment at Ellesmere Port is clearly important not only to his constituency but to the north Wales economy, where many of the employees will come from. Vauxhall, of course, has committed to investing in Luton, and we continue to discuss and attract further investment by Vauxhall, but this commitment demonstrates its interest and recognition of the UK workforce’s expertise, both at Ford in Bridgend and in and around the right hon. Gentleman’s constituency. I will happily meet him to discuss specific actions being taken that could also support his constituency.
Anna McMorrin (Cardiff North) (Lab)
This closure is devastating news for families across Wales, including those affected in my constituency and across the whole of south Wales, and for the supply chain businesses affected, as a huge number of people are involved in the supply chain. The Secretary of State is wholly wrong to rule out Brexit being a causal factor in this decision. The former First Minister of Wales, Carwyn Jones, said today that closure was “never on the agenda” during his very recent private discussions with Bridgend Ford. So can the Secretary of State please rule out a no-deal Brexit and the irresponsible message he is giving to every manufacturer across the industry, across the UK and across Wales today? Will he give that assurance to the car industry and to everyone?
Alun Cairns
The hon. Lady suggests I am wholly wrong to rule out Brexit as a cause, but those are not my views; they are the clear statements that have been made by Ford, both in private and in public. There would be much greater credibility in the statements being made by people seeking to make party political advantage out of this position, which is disappointing, if Ford was moving its operations to the European Union. Clearly, Ford is not doing that; it is moving the engine manufacture to Mexico, which clearly highlights that this is nothing to do with our exit from the EU. She asks me to rule out no deal, but in order to rule that out, you presumably need to vote for a deal, and I have done so on each and every occasion.
Tom Brake (Carshalton and Wallington) (LD)
The Secretary of State has quoted Ford’s Europe chairman, Steven Armstrong, so may I quote him back to the Secretary of State? He said:
“We’ve been very consistent since the referendum that a hard Brexit, a no-deal Brexit, would be a disaster”.
So does the Secretary of State believe that loose talk about delivering no deal by leading Tory leadership contenders damages the UK car industry or assists it? Does he think that if the Chancellor has a Brexit war chest, it should be spent on investing in the UK car industry, including in electric vehicles, rather than on tax cuts for the wealthy, as some are advocating in their leadership campaigns?
Alun Cairns
Again, the right hon. Gentleman quotes what Ford has said, but Ford also said, “Please vote for the deal.” Perhaps he should answer the question of why he did not vote in favour of the deal.
Geraint Davies (Swansea West) (Lab/Co-op)
My father, David Davies, was head of economic development at the Welsh Office in the ’70s and was instrumental in getting Ford to Bridgend, with the help of inducements from a Labour Government, including the rail link the Secretary of State mentioned and other financial inducements. The Secretary of State knows that wages in Wales are the lowest in the UK, at 70% of gross value added, and that the impact of Brexit is in big companies such as Airbus, Ford and Tata realising that they will no longer be in that market and relocating and reducing their workforce. Will he therefore think again about providing a people’s vote so that people can vote on whether they actually do want to leave, because people from that Bridgend plant who voted to leave did not vote to leave their jobs? Will he rule out any no-deal Brexit? Finally, will he make sure that none of the convergence funding that we currently get will be stripped away and given to other parts of the UK? If he will give none of those undertakings, will he resign?
Alun Cairns
The way in which the hon. Gentleman is pursuing the question suggests that this is a debate about Brexit, but Ford has said that it is not and is acting in a way that demonstrates that it is not. It is not about judging Ford’s statements; it is about judging its proposals and the actions it plans to take arising from this issue. He is right in that the manufacturing sector, in particular, wishes to seek some certainty, and that is what we are seeking to bring about, but by voting against the deal on three separate occasions, the uncertainty over the economy has obviously been created.
Gerald Jones (Merthyr Tydfil and Rhymney) (Lab)
Coming on the back of the similar announcement by Honda, this announcement by Ford will have a devastating impact on its workers and on the supply chain right across south Wales, including in my constituency. We absolutely need a co-ordinated response with the Welsh Government, local government and others, but may I ask the Secretary of State what immediate priority he will give in the coming days to ensuring that those in the company—the workers and the trade unions—are afforded all the support they need?
Alun Cairns
I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for raising an important question, which absolutely will affect the employees in his constituency who work at the site. I have mentioned that the taskforce being established will have an industry leader, and Ken Skates and I will be the joint vice-chairs of that group. We will, of course, work closely with the UK Government Departments, the Welsh Government and the unions. I should also pay the greatest respect to the Welsh Automotive Forum for the work it has done in helping us to map the supply chains, many of which will be across not only Wales, but the rest of the UK. Over the coming days, we expect to be able to announce the chair of the taskforce. We have agreed that we want the taskforce to meet as quickly as possible and frequently, certainly in the early stages, and that we want to set up a number of working groups to tackle the individual issues that the taskforce will highlight, be it people, place or the potential for investment on that site.
Justin Madders (Ellesmere Port and Neston) (Lab)
The workers at Vauxhall in Ellesmere Port send their solidarity to those in Bridgend who have lost their jobs and to those who are going to lose their jobs in the wider supply chain. As my right hon. Friend the Member for Birkenhead (Frank Field) said, we are concerned about what is happening to the car industry in this country. It seems to be disintegrating before our eyes and the Government appear to be powerless to stop it. I know that the Secretary of State has mentioned various aspects of the industrial strategy that we hope are going to reverse some of these damaging job losses, but self-evidently this is not enough. Please may we have more action, on business rates, on energy costs and on actually encouraging investment in the first place, because once these jobs go, they are gone forever?
Alun Cairns
First, let me say that Vauxhall is investing in Britain, and that should give the hon. Gentleman confidence as to the approach and attitude that Vauxhall is showing towards the UK economy. However, he is right to highlight the need for further investment. For the last full year for which data is available, business investment in automotive was £5.3 billion, which is a 20% uplift on the previous year. Clearly, these things will vary from tranche to tranche, so we need to be looking at the trend, rather than just seeking to overstate the figures in order to be selective. This is a positive environment, and automotive research and development amounts to 15% of total UK R&D, which highlights the importance that the private sector and the UK Government place on the automotive sector, so that we can provide the next generation of automotive vehicles.
Bill Presented
Employment Status (Definitions)
Presentation and First Reading (Standing Order No.57)
Frank Field, supported by Nigel Mills, Steve McCabe, Justin Madders, Ronnie Campbell, Martyn Day, Albert Owen, Mr Virendra Sharma, Mr Roger Godsiff, Mrs Madeleine Moon, Gareth Snell and John Cryer, presented a Bill to amend the definition of worker and self-employed person; and for connected purposes.
Bill read the First time; to be read a Second time tomorrow, and to be printed (Bill 398).
Welsh Regional Investment
Alun Cairns Excerpts(5 years, 1 month ago)
Written StatementsRead Full debate Read Hansard Text Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
The Secretary of State for Wales (Alun Cairns)
On 6 December 2018 I announced to the House that the UK and Welsh Governments had commissioned a joint independent review of the Swansea bay city region city deal. That review has now concluded and I am today publishing the report and a joint Government response.
I welcome the report which provides Governments, local partners and the private sector with the confidence to invest in the region and bring about economic growth and transformational change. The report recognises the continuing commitment of all partners to the deal, as well as the positive impact a successful city deal would have across the region. Both Governments accept the review recommendations.
Over the coming weeks the UK Government will work alongside the Welsh Government and local partners to implement the recommendations and to seek to move the deal into the next phase of delivery. I am determined that the city deal will deliver for communities in south-west Wales building on the foundation which this review provided.
[HCWS1416]
St David’s Day
Alun Cairns Excerpts(5 years, 2 months ago)
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The Secretary of State for Wales (Alun Cairns)
I am grateful to the hon. Member for Gower (Tonia Antoniazzi) for securing this debate, and for the support of the Backbench Business Committee in making time available for it. It has been a wide-ranging debate, as was pointed out by the shadow Secretary of State, the hon. Member for Neath (Christina Rees). Unfortunately, I will not have time in the time permitted to respond to each and every point made, but if I do not have the opportunity to respond to them, I will happily continue to engage positively with colleagues in all parts of the House on the issues they have raised.
Among some disagreements, there has without doubt been unity and lots of agreement on a number of issues, but I want to underline the comments by every Member of this House about our friend and former colleague Paul Flynn, the past Member for Newport West. I had the privilege of knowing him before I was elected to this House, and I remember that he was particularly supportive of me at a difficult time. My hon. Friend the Member for Monmouth (David T. C. Davies) pointed out his exceptional constituency work, and I can speak about that from experience because my parents-in-law live in his constituency. As I mentioned yesterday, I think there is a significant gap on the Labour Benches, and Paul will be missed. We pay tribute to him, and we pay our respects to his family.
I would also underline the comments that have been made about Steffan Lewis, the former Plaid Cymru Assembly Member. Without doubt, he was an exceptionally bright talent. He had a significant influence in his short political career, and I think Wales will miss him and the influence he brought to bear during that time.
The rugby also brought significant agreement across the House. As my right hon. Friends the Members for Preseli Pembrokeshire (Stephen Crabb) and for Clwyd West (Mr Jones) pointed out, it is a great time to be Welsh, particularly in relation to the rugby that took place at the weekend.
Listening to this wide-ranging debate, it is hard to believe that in 2010 Wales had a formula that underfunded its needs, a legislative consent order model that meant we did not have a full law-making Assembly and a rail franchise that was not fit for purpose—we did not have a single mile of electrified rail track—while unemployment was rising, economic inactivity rates were stubbornly high and manufacturing jobs had gone into quite a sharp decline.
Now, however, I would point out that Wales has a fair funding settlement—there has been enhancement on the funding settlement—and we now have a full law-making Assembly that is to become a Senedd. Major upgrades of the railways are taking place, with investment both in south Wales and in north Wales, and a will and a commitment to open new stations. Unemployment is at record low levels, and economic inactivity rates that have been stubbornly high for decades are now better than England’s. A remarkable transformation has taken place in the Welsh economy, and the manufacturing sector is growing faster than in any other part of the UK. Without doubt, one of my proudest moments has been the abolition of the Severn tolls, so people do not have to pay to come into Wales any more, which provides a great opportunity to bind together the United Kingdom.
Albert Owen
The figures for unemployment and employment levels that the Secretary of State reads out are a credit to the Welsh Government, but they are small comfort to people facing job cuts right now, and I think his tone should reflect that. On the devolving of powers, will he answer the question asked by my right hon. Friend the Member for Delyn (David Hanson)? Teachers up and down the country, like local authorities, are asking: has the money allocated through the teachers formula gone to Wales and is it going to those local authorities?
Alun Cairns
My tone is certainly not vitriolic in any way. I am seeking to contrast the situation in 2010 and the good place Wales is now in because of the joint work with the Welsh Government. I will come on to that as the second theme I am seeking to develop. I pay tribute to the hon. Gentleman for the constructive way in which he works in relation to the challenges and issues that his constituency faces. On the specific point he makes about teachers’ pensions and so on, the Chief Secretary to the Treasury wrote to the Welsh Government on 11 February to clarify that additional resource is being made available. How the Welsh Government distribute that is a matter for them, but I hope that answers many of the questions that have been asked.
Whether it is “Lonely Planet” highlighting north Wales as one of the best places to visit, “The Rough Guide” pointing to Wales as one of the most beautiful countries or the Eurobarometer poll pointing out that Cardiff is one of the best cities to live in across Europe, Wales is in a strong position. Wales is a beautiful location, and it has a lot to offer to the United Kingdom and to the rest of Europe and beyond. In the spirit of my right hon. Friends the Members for Clwyd West and for Preseli Pembrokeshire, I want to celebrate what Wales has to offer. We should bear in mind that we are talking to international investors. Such people will be watching and reading this debate, and I am proud of what we have achieved and of the potential and the opportunity in front of us.
Jonathan Edwards
The Secretary of State has mentioned international investors, who will of course be watching the upcoming sequence of votes we are about to have on Brexit. He knows that the British Government’s view will be defeated on 12 March. What will he do on the 13th? Are the press rumours that he will vote for no deal on the 13th correct, because that would be disastrous for the Welsh economy?
Alun Cairns
I am disappointed by the approach the hon. Gentleman is taking. On the one hand, he, like many other Members in the House, will point to individual companies that are fearful of a no-deal Brexit, or farming unions and other organisations that have said they are fearful of or do not want to face a no-deal Brexit. On the other hand, however, such Members are not prepared to take the advice of those companies or farming unions that are urging them to support the Prime Minister’s deal. On that basis, they are being highly selective. The best way to secure a smooth exit from the European Union and to act on the instruction of the referendum is to support the Prime Minister’s deal. When that debate comes, I hope that Members will look at themselves and think long and hard about the risks they are taking with the Welsh economy and the UK economy if they vote against the Prime Minister’s deal, which offers us a smooth exit from the European Union and access to the European market, while confirming our position as an independent trading nation.
I wish to highlight my positive relationship with the Welsh Government, our negotiations on Brexit, and the legislative consent motion that we secured for the withdrawal Bill. The Welsh Government sit on the Cabinet sub-committee that considers preparations for Brexit, which is positive, and I hope that they will extend similar respect and opportunity for UK Government representatives to sit on their committees, because of the importance of leaving the EU in a conjoined way.
I point to the UK industrial strategy and the city deals. It was a privilege to launch the Cardiff capital region city deal plan this morning, and we are working closely with the Welsh Government on the Swansea city deal. North Wales has been mentioned on several occasions, and I am open to considering additional or different projects as a result of recent economic announcements about pausing work on the nuclear power station on Anglesey, rather than scrapping or suspending it as has been suggested. There is also the mid-Wales growth deal.
Finally, for a demonstration of joint working with the Welsh Government and local authorities across Wales, in a couple of weeks, together with local authority representatives, I will launch the first ever catalogue of Welsh projects at the MIPIM conference, to attract international investment because of the new opportunities that Brexit will bring.
Oral Answers to Questions
Alun Cairns Excerpts(5 years, 2 months ago)
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Angela Crawley (Lanark and Hamilton East) (SNP)
The Secretary of State for Wales (Alun Cairns)
This is the first Welsh questions since the sad passing of our friend and colleague, Paul Flynn. He leaves a significant space on the Labour Back Benches.
The Government are engaging extensively with the Welsh Government in preparing the European Union (Withdrawal Agreement) Bill. This includes bilateral engagement and meetings of the Joint Ministerial Committees.
Angela Crawley
The National Assembly for Wales backed the Plaid Cymru motion calling for work to begin immediately on preparing for a public vote. A recent poll by YouGov also found that more Welsh voters back a people’s vote than do not. If the Secretary of State is truly Wales’s voice in Westminster, as he so boldly claims, will he outline the preparations he has pressed the Prime Minister for to facilitate a people’s vote?
Alun Cairns
I am grateful to the hon. Lady for her question, but I would politely point out to her that Wales voted to leave the European Union in even stronger numbers than the rest of the UK. We have an obligation to act on the instruction that comes from that referendum, but in doing so we will continue to work closely with the Welsh Government to ensure and secure a smooth and orderly exit.
Christina Rees (Neath) (Lab/Co-op)
I first met Paul Flynn in 1980. He was absolutely inspirational to me then and he continued to be a source of inspiration throughout the many years I had the privilege to know him.
Will the Secretary of State guarantee that the Welsh Government will be fully represented in any negotiations with the EU that impact on devolved competence and policy?
Alun Cairns
The UK Government have been open and transparent in their dealings with the Welsh Government on representation and engagement. In fact, the Welsh Government sit on the EU Exit and Trade (Preparedness) Sub-Committee, which shows and demonstrates our positive engagement. I am only disappointed that the same privilege and opportunity has not been extended to the UK Government to sit on the Welsh Government’s similar committee.
Christina Rees
I thank the Secretary of State for his answer, but does he understand that if the UK Government negotiate free trade agreements, for example with the USA, which force hormone-injected beef and chlorinated chicken on the people of Wales without the legislative consent of the elected Welsh Government, that will trigger a major constitutional crisis? Is he prepared to risk that?
Alun Cairns
First, I do not accept the basis of the question, but the hon. Lady raises an important point. We will, of course, continue our warm, constructive and positive engagement with all the devolved Administrations. Our work with the Welsh Government on leaving the European Union has proved fruitful so far. We have laid 120 statutory instruments on behalf of the Welsh Government and at their request. In terms of future trade agreements, we will continue to work with them constructively in the interests of the whole of the UK. Clearly, my interests and their interests will be to defend the Welsh interest. I plan to continue to work with them on that positive basis.
Gavin Newlands (Paisley and Renfrewshire North) (SNP)
Douglas Chapman (Dunfermline and West Fife) (SNP)
The Secretary of State for Wales (Alun Cairns)
I meet my counterparts in the Welsh Government on a regular basis, including Baroness Eluned Morgan on Monday, to discuss a range of policy areas. A responsible Government prepare for every eventuality, including no deal, and we continue to work together on operational readiness through the Joint Ministerial Committees.
Gavin Newlands
That is all very well, but the Government’s no-deal assessment made it clear that the impact of a no-deal Brexit on the UK’s food and drink sector would be most damaging in Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland, where the sector comprises over 5% of those economies compared with just 1.38% in England. How can the Government claim, therefore, that this is a partnership of equal nations when they stand ready to ruin the economies of three, purely in the interests of Tory party unity?
Alun Cairns
The hon. Gentleman is quite selective with the data that he points to. He has highlighted one scenario, but if he is happy to take that message so clearly from the sector that he has highlighted, that same sector encouraged him to support the Prime Minister’s deal with the European Union. When that meaningful vote returns to Parliament, I hope that he will heed that message then.
Douglas Chapman
Will the Secretary of State recognise that 92% of Welsh lamb goes for EU export? Welsh hill farmers have said that if a no-deal Brexit goes ahead, their industry will be decimated and wiped out—a view confirmed in his economic evidence that was published last night. If that is his analysis, will the Secretary of State for Wales act responsibly and make sure that Welsh lamb is protected?
Alun Cairns
I would say similarly to the hon. Gentleman that absolutely, we recognise the importance of Welsh agriculture, as we do all the important employment and economic sectors in Wales. The National Farmers Union and NFU Cymru were strong supporters of the deal with the European Union, so if he is happy to repeat their message today, I hope that he is happy to act on their message when it comes to voting on the meaningful vote in this House.
Sir Oliver Heald (North East Hertfordshire) (Con)
Does my right hon. Friend agree that agriculture is a very important industry not only for Britain but for Wales—particularly, as has already been outlined, Welsh lamb? What measures could be taken in the event of a no-deal Brexit? Clearly the deal would be the first option, but if there was a no-deal Brexit, how would those difficulties be overcome?
Alun Cairns
My right hon. and learned Friend raises an important point. Agriculture is an extremely important part of the Welsh economy and is disproportionately important there compared with the rest of the UK. We would, of course, act in a way that would protect the interests of that economy to ensure that those jobs are there for the long-term future, in spite of any short-term challenge.
Michael Fabricant (Lichfield) (Con)
Regardless of whether we have a no-deal Brexit, is my right hon. Friend aware—I am sure he probably is—that it is coming up to the 50th anniversary of the investiture of the Prince of Wales? How can we employ, in that sense of the word, the Prince of Wales’s soft power and so on to promote Wales and the Welsh economy?
Mr Speaker
Irrespective of membership of or departure from the European Union, with which matter we would not want to involve him in any way.
Alun Cairns
My hon. Friend makes an important point. As we leave the European Union, there is an opportunity to look outwards, and the Prince of Wales is a great champion of Wales and brings about significant soft power. We rightly recognised him last year by renaming the second Severn crossing the Prince of Wales bridge. I pay tribute to Her Majesty the Queen, who will host a reception next week to mark the 50 years since the Prince of Wales was named such.
Several hon. Members rose—
Jo Stevens (Cardiff Central) (Lab)
Thank you very much, Mr Speaker. Every sector of the Welsh economy is going to be damaged by the UK leaving the EU, so will the Secretary of State for Wales confirm that he will be voting to rule out no deal?
Alun Cairns
I will be voting for a deal with the European Union. The hon. Lady will have an interest in a whole range of sectors, be they agriculture or automotive, and all those sectors have strongly supported the Prime Minister’s deal with the European Union. I am disappointed that the hon. Lady voted against that, making no deal more likely.
Chris Elmore (Ogmore) (Lab)
Alun Cairns
I do not want to pre-empt our consultation, which will go out very shortly, but I say candidly to the hon. Gentleman that he will recognise that more than £4 billion—approaching £5 billion—in EU structural funds has been spent in the Welsh economy over the last 17 years; does he honestly believe that we have had the best value from that, and is there not a better opportunity to deliver better value for money for the taxpayer?
Tom Pursglove (Corby) (Con)
The Secretary of State for Wales (Alun Cairns)
Since the referendum I have been talking to stakeholders the length and breadth of Wales on the implications of EU exit. This includes the discussions I have had with my expert panel and economic advisory board, which met again last month.
Tom Pursglove
I am grateful to the Secretary of State for that answer, but what steps is his Department taking specifically to support small businesses reliant on tourism in Wales?
Alun Cairns
My hon. Friend is a great champion of his constituency, and I have no doubt that people in Corby and east Northamptonshire will want to visit Wales regularly. This is a great opportunity to highlight Wales Week in London. Wales Week has gone global this year, being held in New York, in Washington and in all parts of the UK. I would be interested in seeing what we can do in my hon. Friend’s constituency next year.
Anna McMorrin (Cardiff North) (Lab)
Alun Cairns
There is absolutely no reason why those employees should have left, because we have respected their rights. I only hope and wish that as we continue to negotiate, all the rights of UK nationals living in the European Union will be respected in exactly the same way. The hon. Lady voted against the Prime Minister’s deal with the European Union, and by doing so she is making no deal far more likely. So I would encourage her to look objectively at the data, and to support the meaningful vote when it comes up.
Stephen Kerr (Stirling) (Con)
What discussions has my right hon. Friend had with the Secretary of State for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy about relocating the resources that are concentrated on Victoria Street into Wales and into Scotland?
Alun Cairns
My hon. Friend makes an important point. My right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster and Minister for the Cabinet Office already has an agenda to take as many jobs as possible out of Whitehall and relocate them across the rest of the UK on an ongoing basis. Leaving the European Union will bring new responsibilities. I think there is an opportunity for my hon. Friend’s constituency, and I shall be seeking to play my part in ensuring that Wales benefits too.
Hywel Williams (Arfon) (PC)
In respect of Welsh business preparation for Brexit, can the Secretary of State tell me how many of the hundreds of Government Brexit work streams have been allocated exclusively or primarily to the Wales Office?
Alun Cairns
The hon. Gentleman will be aware that the Wales Office sits and acts right across the whole of Government, but my prime lead is with the Welsh Government. We have now ensured that they sit on the European Union Exit and Trade (Preparedness) Sub-Committee, and as I mentioned earlier, I only hope that they will similarly invite a UK Government representative to sit on their equivalent Committee.
Nick Thomas-Symonds (Torfaen) (Lab)
Chris Evans (Islwyn) (Lab/Co-op)
The Secretary of State for Wales (Alun Cairns)
The industrial strategy provides a platform for the Welsh economy to thrive, and we have been working closely with the Welsh Government to ensure that we make the most of the opportunities available. We are already delivering a wide range of projects in Wales, such as through the industrial strategy challenge fund, for which Wales is scoring well above its population share.
Chris Evans
If you will allow me, Mr Speaker, I would like to pay tribute to my parliamentary next-door neighbour, Paul Flynn. The unique, unforgettable parliamentarian he was will be missed by all in this House.
I wonder whether the Secretary of State is concerned by the news that the Welsh Automotive Forum says that once Honda stops production in Swindon, 12 companies based in Wales will be affected by that decision. If he is worried, what will he do for those small and medium-sized enterprises to open up new markets?
Alun Cairns
The hon. Gentleman has raised an important point. I was in Japan last week when the ambassador received the news. It is necessary to recognise that this is nothing to do with Brexit; it is about changing market habits and about Honda’s changing approach. We have already been in touch with the Welsh Automotive Forum and are engaging positively with its members. The hon. Gentleman is right about the number of companies, but the exposure is more limited than it might initially suggest.
Stephen Crabb (Preseli Pembrokeshire) (Con)
In terms of the industrial strategy, does the Secretary of State think that the chronic M4 congestion around Newport, which snarled up the England rugby team coach last Friday, was part of a cunning plan to give Wales the edge, or just a consequence of 20 years of failure on the part of a Welsh Labour Government, who cannot build a road?
Alun Cairns
My right hon. Friend is absolutely right. Even the Welsh coach, Warren Gatland, said to Eddie Jones that he would never have travelled through Newport at that time of day because of the congestion in the area. That might be light-hearted, but the reality is that the problem is causing serious reputational damage to Wales. The plan is available and makes a positive recommendation, and the money is available from the Treasury. I wish that the Welsh Government would just get on and deliver the road.
Liz Saville Roberts (Dwyfor Meirionnydd) (PC)
I am sure the House will join me in welcoming the serendipity of the alignment of stars whereby in every year ending in “9” since 1949, Wales has beaten England.
Wylfa Newydd was a key development underpinning north Wales growth deal projects. Now that Hitachi has pulled the plug on Wylfa, what is the Secretary of State doing to secure additional funding, specifically infrastructure investment, over and above the £120 million currently committed by the Government?
Alun Cairns
The hon. Lady has asked an important question, but Hitachi has paused the project and is maintaining the development consent order. It has not pulled the plug. When I met the chairman last week, he was keen to continue to engage. We will look open-mindedly at the north Wales growth deal, but it is of course a matter for local authorities and businesses to submit bids to me so that I can consider them in due course.
Liz Saville Roberts
What assessment has the Secretary of State made of the potential use of Crown Estates revenue income from Wales, or other Treasury funds to support the development of energy infrastructure, and specifically to develop the tidal stream energy sector in Pembrokeshire, Llŷn and Ynys Cybi?
Alun Cairns
The hon. Lady has given some excellent examples of projects that could well gain support through the north or the mid Wales growth deal or the Swansea city deal. Those are the sorts of projects that I should like to explore, but of course they are bottom up. Working with the hon. Lady and with local partners, I shall be happy to see what we can do.
David T. C. Davies (Monmouth) (Con)
Gareth Thomas (Harrow West) (Lab/Co-op)
The Secretary of State for Wales (Alun Cairns)
The hon. Gentleman raises this issue on the European Union. He voted against the Prime Minister’s deal. That makes no deal far more likely. The only way to secure a smooth, orderly exit from the European Union is to support the Prime Minister’s deal when the meaningful vote comes back to this House.
Mr Speaker
Since the hon. Member for Ceredigion (Ben Lake) is conscious that he has a question on the Order Paper, he can have it.
Oral Answers to Questions
Alun Cairns Excerpts(5 years, 3 months ago)
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Hywel Williams (Arfon) (PC)
The Secretary of State for Wales (Alun Cairns)
With your permission, Mr Speaker, before I answer the questions, may I say that I am sure the House will want to join me in paying tribute and respect to Assembly Member Steffan Lewis, who sadly died just over a week ago? He was a bright and dedicated politician who had an exceptional future in front of him, with so much to offer Wales. My prayers and thoughts are with his wife, Shona, and son, Celyn, at this most difficult time.
I can update the House that the UK air accidents investigation branch is working with the relevant rescue and transportation authorities in relation to Emiliano Sala and the pilot who went missing on Monday evening. I am sure that the whole House wishes to join me in hoping for a positive outcome.
The Government are working to identify the broadest possible consensus on a way forward so that we leave the European Union in a smooth and orderly manner. We are engaging with Members on both sides of the House and with representatives of business groups, civil society, trade unions and others.
Angela Crawley
A recent report by The UK in a Changing Europe has found that almost half of all respondents oppose the Prime Minister’s deal, with only 23% in support. How can the Secretary of State reconcile his position of being Wales’s champion in Westminster when this place is working contrary to Welsh public opinion?
Alun Cairns
In the first instance, I remind the hon. Lady that Wales voted to leave the European Union in even stronger numbers than the rest of the United Kingdom. The withdrawal agreement sets out the basis on which, and how, we will leave the European Union. In the light of last week’s votes, we are determined to make amendments and to develop a document in consultation with colleagues across the House in order to win the House of Commons’ support.
Chris Elmore
May I associate myself with the Secretary of State’s comments about Steffan Lewis? He and I worked together as young researchers in the National Assembly for Wales. We must remember the words of our colleague Jo Cox that we do have a lot more in common across this House and across the devolved institutions.
Will the Secretary of State simply rule out now, and make representations to the Prime Minister to rule out, no deal, so that the automotive industry in Bridgend—Ford in Bridgend employs many of my constituents—can have certainty beyond March? This continuing planning for no deal is providing no certainty to anybody.
Alun Cairns
I would say to the hon. Gentleman that the best way of avoiding no deal is obviously to get a deal. It was interesting that the hon. Gentleman voted against the deal last week. We will continue to engage across the House and with the devolved Administrations, and we are optimistic that we will continue to make amendments to the document that will gain a deal with the European Union.
Hywel Williams
In an excellent briefing on the 9th, organised by the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland, on the effects of leaving the European Union on businesses in Northern Ireland, I was told the slightly unknown fact that 40% of Northern Ireland perishable food exports come through Holyhead. This fact was not known to the people I met then, and is perhaps not known to other Members of this House. What assessment has the Secretary of State made of the impact of a no deal on the supply chains that sustain the exports of such foods through the port of Holyhead, and will he confirm what steps he is taking personally to mitigate that impact?
Alun Cairns
The hon. Gentleman makes an important point about the port of Holyhead. It is the second busiest port in the UK during the summer months, but of course all year round it is pretty critical to the supply chain, particularly for foodstuffs that come from both Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland. A ports working group has been in place for quite some time—it involves the UK Government, the Welsh Government and the relevant UK Government agencies—to plan for a deal, and also to plan for no deal, as a responsible Government would do.
Stephen Crabb (Preseli Pembrokeshire) (Con)
Does my right hon. Friend agree that voters in Wales will not forgive this place if we fail to respect the outcome of the 2016 referendum, and that businesses in Wales will not forgive us if we create a set of circumstances that makes their job of creating jobs in Wales even harder? Given those two imperatives, does my right hon. Friend agree that actually passing a withdrawal agreement—passing a deal—is absolutely essential now?
Alun Cairns
I am grateful to my right hon. Friend for his question. He obviously recognises the importance of gaining a deal, and I have no doubt he will play a significant part in working with the Government and influencing colleagues in understanding the opportunities and the challenges that we face. He is absolutely right: the ports in Pembrokeshire are extremely important to the Welsh economy—my right hon. Friend regularly highlights those—but he also understands the importance of agriculture and manufacturing, and why a deal is so important to those sectors, too.
Bob Blackman (Harrow East) (Con)
What assessment has my right hon. Friend made of the opportunities for Wales, once we leave the European Union, of more jobs and investment, and also of the potential for Wales to boom, as opposed to the doom and gloom of the Labour party?
Alun Cairns
I am grateful to my hon. Friend for raising that question. He will be well aware that, in the past quarter, the UK economy was growing faster than the eurozone economy—the UK grew by 0.6% while the German and Italian economies went into decline. That highlights some of the opportunities that we face but, of course, we can grasp them in the smoothest way only if we manage to get a deal with the European Union.
Wayne David (Caerphilly) (Lab)
Given that the Wales CBI has said that a no-deal Brexit will see a £7 billion annual fall in Welsh manufacturing output and output generally in the economy, will he, for goodness’ sake, simply admit that a no-deal Brexit will be bad for Wales? Before he responds, let me say that I do not want a Maybotic answer.
Alun Cairns
The hon. Gentleman will know that there are many predictions in economic forecasts, but they are forecasts rather than fact. He will have predicted a recession after the 2010 general election—he may well have even predicted a double or treble-dip recession—but I hope that he will recognise the fantastic employment data that was published yesterday showing record numbers of people in work in Wales. The inactivity rates in Wales are at staggeringly positive numbers, matching the rest of the UK for the first time since records began.
Christina Rees (Neath) (Lab/Co-op)
I echo the words of the Secretary of State with regard to Steffan Lewis and Emiliano Sala.
The Secretary of State voted for the Prime Minister’s disastrously flawed withdrawal agreement—he was one of the few, not the many. Will he explain why the Government pretend that nothing has changed, despite their suffering the biggest defeat in parliamentary history?
Alun Cairns
It is no secret that the House did not support the deal that was presented to it last week, but we are committed to working with colleagues across our own Benches, and across the House, to come forward with a proposal that can gather the support of the House of Commons and, obviously, to negotiate with the European Union in order to get a deal. I am sure that the hon. Lady would much prefer to see a deal and I challenge her to say whether she was comfortable being in the same Lobby as some colleagues, from all parts of the House, who would like to see no deal.
Christina Rees
I think that that was a Cairnsbotic answer.
Yesterday, the First Minister of Wales, Mark Drakeford, cleared Government business in the Welsh Assembly so that he and his Cabinet Ministers could make urgent statements on how a no-deal outcome would be so disastrous for the people of Wales. Will the Secretary of State tell us if he will be voting for amendments put forward in this House to avoid a no-deal outcome, or will he, like his Prime Minister, put party before country?
Alun Cairns
I can advise the House that the UK Government have laid 75 statutory instruments at the Assembly’s request. We have had countless meetings of the Joint Ministerial Committee and the Prime Minister has agreed to invite the First Minister to the European Union Exit and Trade (Preparedness) Sub-Committee. I hope that that demonstrates the joint work that is taking place. The hon. Lady talks about putting party interests first. I cannot understand why the First Minister of Wales is happy to meet the Prime Minister—they will be meeting later today—but the Leader of the Opposition refuses to meet her to discuss the prospect of a deal, yet seems always happy to meet the IRA.
Jessica Morden (Newport East) (Lab)
Ben Lake (Ceredigion) (PC)
The Secretary of State for Wales (Alun Cairns)
I have regular discussions with Cabinet colleagues and Welsh Government Ministers on a range of issues affecting Wales, including on the UK shared prosperity fund.
Jessica Morden
EU structural funds have been crucial for communities across Wales, and it is vital that Wales must not be left behind—we need that assurance. Why has it taken so long to get any detail from the Government on the shared prosperity fund, not least the consultation, which was promised by the Government before Christmas?
Alun Cairns
I agree that the UK shared prosperity fund will be extremely important to all parts of the UK. My specific interest is protecting Welsh interests in the development of that policy. On 14 January, I spoke to the Welsh Government’s Brexit Minister, Jeremy Miles, to update him on the latest stages of the plans for consultation, and I also committed to sharing that with him before we formally consult. Of course we want to engage with a whole load of stakeholders. There is widespread recognition that the current structure does not work, and we have an opportunity to get it right.
Ben Lake
Between 2014 and 2020, Wales will have received £2.4 billion in structural funding, or over 20% of the total UK allocation of EU funds. Will the UK Government ensure that Wales continues to receive at least an equivalent share of funding from the shared prosperity fund?
Alun Cairns
I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his question, in which he highlights some of the most recent data. The complete data on the period since European structural funding was introduced show that more than £4 billion has been spent over 17 years, but I am sure he agrees that we have not always got the best value out of that investment—there are several audit reports to that effect. Of course, any quantum of the UK shared prosperity fund is a matter reserved for my right hon. Friend the Chancellor during the comprehensive spending review.
Mr David Jones (Clwyd West) (Con)
Given the not unreasonable concern in north Wales about Hitachi’s decision to suspend development of Wylfa B, is my right hon. Friend willing to meet representatives of the North Wales Economic Ambition Board to discuss ways in which the shared prosperity fund may be used to support the regional economy?
Alun Cairns
I pay tribute to my right hon. Friend’s work in securing Hitachi’s interest in Wylfa when RWE and E.ON withdrew their interest from the project. Although last week’s decision is disappointing, our focus is on maintaining momentum towards the development consent. Of course I am happy to meet the board and my right hon. Friend to discuss how we can best use influences such as the shared prosperity fund and the north Wales growth deal. We will happily keep an open mind, but these matters are project-led, and the strength of resource depends on the quality of the project.
Stephen Kerr (Stirling) (Con)
The UK shared prosperity fund should be just that—a UK-wide fund. What discussions have my right hon. Friend and the Secretary of State for Scotland had with the Treasury to ensure that the UK Government have a positive impact on the lives of the people of Wales and Scotland?
Alun Cairns
My hon. Friend has highlighted inefficiencies in the current proposal, and there is a range of options for how we can best work on those. We are going out to consultation very soon. We have cross-Government discussions and consideration of this subject, but I do not want to pre-empt the consultation. I encourage my hon. Friend to engage with me, the Secretary of State for Scotland and the Treasury.
Susan Elan Jones (Clwyd South) (Lab)
In the late 1990s, the Secretary of State’s party was voting against the existence of the National Assembly. In 2005, it had a manifesto option of abolishing the Assembly. Can he understand why many Opposition Members do not believe that he truly wants to involve our National Assembly for Wales in the governance of the UK shared prosperity fund?
Alun Cairns
That question is a bit rich coming from the hon. Lady, given that her party’s Government left us with the famous legislative consent order motions, which meant that the Welsh Government could not even pass primary legislation in certain areas without Parliament’s explicit control. I point to the Wales Acts 2014 and 2017 and to the referendum, which extended the powers of the Welsh Assembly, as well as countless Joint Ministerial Committee meetings and this afternoon’s meeting between the Prime Minister and the First Minister to discuss how best to manage Brexit.
Ruth George (High Peak) (Lab)
Kevin Foster (Torbay) (Con)
The Secretary of State for Wales (Alun Cairns)
The removal of the tolls from the Severn river crossings will drive the biggest economic stimulus Wales has seen in decades, putting over £1,400 a year back into the pockets of hard-working motorists and boosting the south Wales economy alone by £100 million.
Kevin Foster
I am delighted to hear that positive assessment from my right hon. Friend of the impact of removing the tolls, which add a significant cost to doing business between the south-west of England and Wales. Will he advise on what discussions he is having to exploit this opportunity by identifying any job-creating developments this might inspire on the M4/M5 corridor?
Alun Cairns
I pay tribute to my hon. Friend for his work in this area to encourage closer working between this super-region that is being developed. The great western powerhouse allows the south-west of England and south Wales to market themselves jointly to start competing with the northern powerhouse and the midlands engine. I know that he has a strong interest in the M5 and the business around it. I obviously have a strong interest in the M4, and together we will attract more investment.
Chris Evans (Islwyn) (Lab/Co-op)
May I begin by associating myself with the comments that the Secretary of State made about Steffan Lewis? As his local MP, I always admired and respected him, and his passion for Wales will be greatly missed within the Assembly. It is a loss to Welsh political life.
The closing of the tolls at the M4 bridge creates massive opportunities. What discussions has the Secretary of State had with other Government Departments to bring regional offices and Government jobs to Wales?
Alun Cairns
I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for such a question. A number of discussions are going on across Government Departments about the drive to decentralise civil service opportunities from London. He will be aware of the Cardiff hub, and we are looking to where other opportunities exist. But abolishing the Severn tolls has also created challenges. We need better integration for projects such as the Chepstow bypass and other road projects that work cross-border, and we need to harness those as priorities.
Mark Tami (Alyn and Deeside) (Lab)
Anna McMorrin (Cardiff North) (Lab)
The Secretary of State for Wales (Alun Cairns)
As we leave the European Union, our economy is growing faster than the eurozone, employment is at record high levels, and economic activity in Wales is at the highest level since records began.
Anna McMorrin
May I associate myself with the Minister’s comments on Steffan Lewis, who was one of the most able and talented politicians that Wales has ever had?
With days to go until we crash out with no deal, we know the devastating impact. The CBI is warning us, the Army is on stand-by to slaughter lambs set for export, and the Government are refusing to rule out no deal. What does the Minister say about that, given that the Prime Minister is not going to get her deal through?
Alun Cairns
My right hon. Friend the Prime Minister has set out our position and is determined to work not only on our side of the House but across the House to introduce proposals that will allow the House of Commons to support a deal. It is interesting that the Welsh First Minister, Mark Drakeford, is prepared to meet her to discuss the proposals, but the Leader of the Opposition refuses to do so, in spite of being more than happy to meet the IRA on other occasions.
Several hon. Members rose—
Welsh Regional Government
Alun Cairns Excerpts(5 years, 5 months ago)
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The Secretary of State for Wales (Alun Cairns)
On March 2017, the Government reached agreement with the Welsh Government and the four local authorities on a heads of terms city deal for the Swansea Bay city region to bring almost £1.3 billion of investment to the region, which is expected to create in excess of 9,000 jobs.
Since this time good progress has been made on developing a number of the projects within the overall deal programme. However, with no individual business cases yet approved I have today commissioned a joint independent review with the Welsh Government which will underpin the next phase of delivery.
This review will be independently led and will report to both the UK and Welsh Governments. It will consider a range of factors to provide a stocktake on progress to date as well as assurance that all elements of the deal are on track to deliver the full economic benefits of this ambitious programme. It will also consider matters of due diligence and governance, to ensure that oversight and compliance are robust. Its recommendations will inform future decisions on the release of Government funding as well as providing potential private investors with additional confidence across the deal as a whole.
Work on further developing individual projects will continue in parallel with the review.
[HCWS1157]
Welsh Affairs
Alun Cairns Excerpts(6 years, 1 month ago)
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The Secretary of State for Wales (Alun Cairns)
I beg to move,
That this House has considered Welsh Affairs.
I commend the Backbench Business Committee for recognising the importance of holding this debate on Wales. I thank my right hon. Friend the Leader of the House for agreeing to reschedule the debate from St David’s day, in the light of the weather, and to hold it now in Government time. I pay tribute to the hon. Member for Ynys Môn (Albert Owen), who originally secured the debate by persisting with the Backbench Business Committee and gaining a positive outcome. I am sure that the debate will be wide-ranging, constructive, and even provocative at times. Whatever issues are considered, I am confident that we will all have the best interests of Wales at heart.
I think the whole House will want to pay tribute to Lord Crickhowell, the former Welsh Secretary—the longest-serving Welsh Secretary—who sadly died today. A statement was made in the other place. I have many fond memories of him, as I know many other hon. Members will, and we know the challenges he faced and the stability he brought to Wales with his vision. Cardiff Bay is an obvious example, as is the establishment of S4C, and there were so many other changes thanks to the influence he brought to bear across government.
It is also important to pay tribute and respect to Lord Richard, who also died today. He contributed significant work to the devolution debate through the Richard commission, which played a significant part in establishing a foundation for the further advancement of devolution in Wales. Our thoughts and respect go to the families of both Lord Crickhowell and Lord Richard.
If this debate had been held on the originally planned day, it would have been associated with a whole host of initiatives and gatherings here in London to recognise issues facing Wales, and highlighting the best that Wales has to offer, as part of Wales Week in London. More than 80 events were held in areas from culture and sport to business and the economy. There were events at No. 10 Downing Street, at the Foreign and Commonwealth Office, here in Parliament and at Lancaster House, where the Welsh Government scheduled their events. Unfortunately, Ken Skates, the Welsh Government Minister, could not be there, but I was happy to step in and to support his actions and his wishes. There were also events across London at various headquarters of UK and international businesses that have strong interests in Wales or are seeking to invest in Wales. Wales Week in London was a fantastic success. Being Welsh, it lasted much longer than a week, and probably longer than a fortnight.
In recognising those events, I pay tribute to Dan Langford and Mike Jordan, who initiated the concept of Wales Week in London. All the events have become part of a successful time in the Welsh calendar on and around St David’s day. The week has been jointly supported by the UK and Welsh Governments, appreciating that as we leave the European Union, the more outward-looking and ambitious we are, the stronger our position as we grasp the new opportunities ahead.
David Hanson (Delyn) (Lab)
Indeed, 1 March would have been a very special day for the debate. Would it not also have been a special day to announce the finalised growth deal for north Wales, given that one was announced for other parts of Wales on that day, and given that there has been a tremendous amount of work on it? We have now had the spring statement. Will the Secretary of State give some indication of when he will announce the funding and outcomes for the growth deal in north Wales?
Alun Cairns
I am encouraged by the sense of urgency from the right hon. Gentleman, and from other Members from north Wales. He will well know, however, that this is a matter for local partners, because we can respond as quickly as possible as they develop and bring forward their initiatives and ideas. We are making very good progress. My hon. Friend the Under-Secretary was in north Wales last week, working with local partners—local authorities and businesses—to progress the case as quickly as possible.
David Hanson
I am grateful to the Secretary of State for giving way again. He will know how important the deal is. It is certainly locally driven, but the framework for it is the spending limits set by the UK Government and the Treasury and the indications that he gives. If he gave an indication via the Treasury of what the spending limit was, the deal could be signed very quickly.
Alun Cairns
The right hon. Gentleman tempts me, but he knows that that is not the way it works. We assess and break down the merits of each individual part of it. We then break down which areas are devolved and which are reserved, and we come up with a package that is jointly supported by the Welsh Government, the UK Government and partners in the community, including those in the private sector and local authorities. I am as anxious as he is to see the deal progress as quickly as possible, on the basis of the success we are seeing elsewhere.
Nick Thomas-Symonds (Torfaen) (Lab)
On St David’s day in Torfaen, we had a visit from the American ambassador. He visited Pontypool indoor market and Frog Bikes, a new business which, with support from the Welsh Government and Torfaen County Borough Council, is now partnered with USA Cycling. Will the Secretary of State join me in congratulating Frog Bikes on that achievement?
Alun Cairns
I will happily congratulate it. I met the US ambassador to the UK a few days before his visit to Wales. He shared his plans and hopes, and I said that the visits he hoped to make were thoroughly excellent. He is a true friend of Wales, and I am keen to develop a much stronger relationship with him as we attract investment and other opportunities and meet challenges such as the one between the UK and US steel industry, which we spoke about last week.
Mr Tanmanjeet Singh Dhesi (Slough) (Lab)
The Secretary of State has outlined how important it is for Wales to look outward. The Government committed in 2012 to the western rail link to Heathrow, which would directly connect Wales to Heathrow, going through the west country and, indeed, Slough. Does he agree that it is about time the Government built it?
Alun Cairns
I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for highlighting that project, because it is important to Wales. I thoroughly support it, and we want to gain investment from a range of sources for it. His point highlights how integrated the rail network is—Wales sometimes benefits from spend in England, and England sometimes benefits from spend in Wales.
Geraint Davies (Swansea West) (Lab/Co-op)
Will the Secretary of State give way?
Alun Cairns
I want to make some progress, then I will give way.
I was discussing the opportunities for Wales as we leave the European Union. I hope Members throughout the House will welcome the news earlier today that an agreement in principle has been reached with the European Union on the implementation period. As the Prime Minister has said, that shows that with good will on both sides, it is possible to agree an arrangement that works for all sides.
As we leave the European Union, the Union of the UK is more important than ever before. We are a Union of four nations developed over a long history, communicated through a common culture and a shared identity. As a result of joint working and the collaborative approach taken by the UK Government and the Welsh Government, we have delivered a fiscal framework that secures Welsh funding over the long term and a Wales Act that puts Welsh devolution on a stable footing.
Despite what is often reported in the press, the relationship between the Governments is positive, and I take pride in that, along with the First Minister. While there will undoubtedly be challenges ahead, Wales is well placed to benefit from the many opportunities that leaving the European Union offers, such as the chance to form new partnerships, maintain relationships with old allies and become true beneficiaries of the UK being a global leader in free trade.
Wayne David (Caerphilly) (Lab)
The Secretary of State must be concerned by a leaked document from the Government five weeks ago indicating that there would be a 9.5% reduction in Wales’s economic growth rate if the Government failed to achieve a deal with our European partners. If the Government are considering the possibility of no deal, he must be extremely concerned about that projection.
Alun Cairns
The hon. Gentleman tempts me, but he knows that the Government do not comment on leaked documents. Statements have been made that those documents were not complete, nor were they approved by Ministers.
I am happy to talk about the strength of the Welsh economy and the opportunities we have to exploit the UK being a global leader in free trade. Wales was the fastest-growing nation in the UK in 2016. We have 98,000 more people in work since 2010, with 44,000 more women in work and unemployment down by 48,000 compared with 2010. That demonstrates the strength of the Welsh economy, in which I have significant confidence.
Geraint Davies
Does the Secretary of State accept that 60% of Welsh exports are to the EU, and there is a real risk that we will face tariffs, regulatory barriers and supply chain constraints, which would undermine that growth? Would it not be better for him to commit now to pressing to be part of the single market and the customs union, if in fact we Brexit?
Alun Cairns
As the hon. Gentleman says, about 60% of Welsh exports go to the EU. I am surprised by the simplistic approach that someone of his stature and understanding takes. He of all Members would recognise the complexity of supply chains. The real figure is that 80% of Welsh output goes to the rest of the UK, and there are then onward exports to the European Union and elsewhere. That demonstrates the complexity of supply chains, and he undersells himself by taking that simplistic approach.
Export figures are strong, as the hon. Gentleman is happy to highlight. Last year, we exceeded the £16 billion figure. Export growth to the EU rose by 12%, and the increase in exports to areas outside the EU was 13%. Inward investment remains strong, with investments from companies such as Ipsen Biopharm. It has invested £22 million in Wrexham to expand its facilities, creating 100 jobs. Over recent years, the amount invested locally has been close to £100 million. Spanish manufacturing giant CAF is investing £30 million in Newport producing railway rolling stock, creating 200 new jobs.
Toyota’s recent announcement that it will build its new Auris model in Burnaston is great news for the engine plant on Deeside. That demonstrates the complexity of supply chains, which I mentioned to the hon. Gentleman, and highlights the fact that Wales gains much from being part of the common UK market.
Mark Tami (Alyn and Deeside) (Lab)
Clearly the Toyota announcement was extremely good news, but it was planned over a number of years. Does the Secretary of State agree that the company, along with others such as Airbus, has major concerns about the post-Brexit situation, particularly if we have tariffs?
Alun Cairns
I am quite surprised that the hon. Gentleman suggests that major investments such as that take place with such simplicity. They might have well have been thought of a number of years ago, but it takes a lot of hard negotiation to strike the final deal and gain a commitment to investment. We all recognise that global companies such as Toyota could take their investment almost anywhere, but it chose to bring it to the United Kingdom. I was in Japan just last August talking to Toyota about that investment, because of the ongoing influence it will have on any investment on Deeside. We have not yet won that for Deeside, but we are in a much stronger position because of Toyota’s commitment in Derbyshire.
I have also had the privilege of visiting Qatar and the US in recent months, to meet investors and seek to establish new relationships that will benefit Wales and the rest of the United Kingdom. The Welsh and UK Governments are developing a strong trading relationship with Qatar, and in six weeks the very first Doha to Cardiff flight will operate, making it far easier for investors from the region to trade in and with Wales.
Chris Elmore (Ogmore) (Lab)
Does the Secretary of State now accept that the Welsh Government were right to put in the investment to purchase Cardiff airport several years ago? Without that investment within his own constituency, Cardiff airport could have folded, because he simply was not interested.
Alun Cairns
I do not accept that statement. The ownership of the airport does not matter; it is the operation and management of the airport that is important. The hon. Gentleman will recognise that it is an independent, limited company, and it is important that the airport has the freedom to operate in the way it does. I am privileged to have the airport in my constituency, and I support it. In recent months, I have spoken to every managing director or chief executive involved to encourage and facilitate more flights to and from the airport, which is playing a part in contributing to its success. It has grown by 8%, but other airports across the country have grown by similar amounts because of the success of the UK economy.
Welsh businesses will be at the forefront of the UK’s biggest ever trade festival, which kicks off in Hong Kong later this week. I am determined to ensure a close working relationship between the Welsh Government, my office and the Department for International Trade on foreign direct investment and our export ambitions. This is what businesses and communities want. Last week, the Department for International Trade and I held workshops in my office in Cardiff bay to better understand the barriers to exporting and the opportunities in which each Government can play a part in supporting those ambitious companies. I will host a similar event in north Wales next week.
Certainty and continuity for businesses and communities are themes that we are extending to our approach to leaving the European Union. As Members will be aware, we have been working closely with the Welsh Government on the European Union (Withdrawal) Bill. Our initial approach was to retain all EU powers at UK level on a temporary basis to provide the certainty and security that the business community has called for, and we have committed to working with the devolved Administrations on how these powers will work and their onward transfer to the Welsh, Scottish and Northern Ireland Assemblies and Parliaments. However, having listened carefully to the concerns raised by the devolved Administrations, we have tabled an amendment to clause 11. The assumption is that the powers should be devolved, but with an order-making power to enable the UK Government, working with all the devolved Administrations, to legislate and to protect the UK common market. This will apply only in a limited number of areas and on a temporary basis. We have published analysis showing that we expect there to be only 24 areas of policy where we will need to discuss the possibility of legislative frameworks with the Welsh Government.
Alun Cairns
I will give way in a moment, but I want to finish this important point.
This means that we expect to be able to devolve 40 areas with either no frameworks or only informal agreements. The result is that the vast majority of powers returning from Brussels that intersect with devolved competence will fall under the full control of the devolved Administrations from day one of exit.
Susan Elan Jones
Is not the right hon. Gentleman really saying that he has not listened to the Welsh Government?
Alun Cairns
I would hope that the hon. Lady recognised that we have listened to the Welsh Government and the other devolved Administrations by bringing forward the amendment in the other place. We are still working with the Welsh Government to get to a position of agreement where we can gain a legislative consent motion. That we have a robust relationship is demonstrated by the fact that the First Minister and the Finance Minister, Mark Drakeford, have said that we are very close to a deal, although we are not there yet and further challenges remain.
Liz Saville Roberts (Dwyfor Meirionnydd) (PC)
I understand that one of the 24 areas relates to procurement, but there appears to be no formal way of negotiating on and agreeing how these powers will actually be transferred.
Alun Cairns
The hon. Lady raises an important point. As we talk about the 24 areas, we will of course want to apply the Sewel convention. That is the basis on which devolution has worked since the change to the UK constitution back in 1999. We will always want to get there by agreement, but that is the basis on which the Sewel convention works. Whatever legislation there is in the 24 areas of law that we want to use to protect the UK market, we will always seek agreement with the devolved Administrations under that convention. That demonstrates the level of co-operation between the UK Government and the devolved Administrations, and I have already mentioned my positive relationship with the Welsh Government.
Christina Rees (Neath) (Lab/Co-op)
The Secretary of State says that this is a temporary measure. Why is he altering the Government of Wales Act 2006, because that surely makes it permanent?
Alun Cairns
I am not quite sure which specific element the hon. Lady is referring to, but I will happily meet her to discuss the details. We are having an ongoing positive discussion with the Welsh Government, as well as with the Scottish Government, and we are keen to get to a position where we will gain a legislative consent motion.
Christina Rees
I am talking about the UK Government’s amendment to clause 11, which specifically says that there will be an obligation on UK Ministers to consult Welsh Government Ministers, not to seek their consent.
Alun Cairns
Clearly, we will consult, but we will also use and honour the Sewel convention, which is the basis on which legislation has been developed and drafted ever since 1999—with the agreement of the devolved Administration.
Alun Cairns
I will give way to the hon. Gentleman, but I then want to make some progress.
Wayne David
The Secretary of State is very kind. This is an important point, and it is important to have clarification. He has mentioned the retention of powers “on a temporary basis”. How long is temporary?
Alun Cairns
The reason for using the word “temporary” is that we want to bring in order-making powers for 24 areas of law to use them to protect the UK market until we have reached a position of agreement with the devolved Administrations on how we will enact legislation to put in place frameworks on those areas of law. In each and every one of the areas, we will, as we progress through the 24 areas, use the Sewel convention. This demonstrates the pragmatic, positive process we are pursuing. I could easily give some simple, practical examples of why this is important, but Wales has certainly more to gain than it has to lose. I have highlighted the fact that 80% of Welsh output goes to the rest of the UK, and that undermines—sorry, underlines; let me clarify that this underlines—the importance of doing the right thing on these 24 areas of law, because one part of the United Kingdom should not be given the power to hold up every other part.
Much attention is understandably given to the EU market, but the UK market is central to the success of the Welsh economy, and we must recognise the importance of the UK market to investment and jobs. As I have mentioned, 80% of Welsh output goes to the rest of the United Kingdom, so protecting the internal UK market will protect jobs and investment in Wales and across the UK. Where these limited common frameworks are needed or indeed essential, we will continue to apply the principles of the Sewel convention, seeking the support of the devolved Administration at every stage. This is an entirely reasonable proposition, and follows the foundations on which devolution has been established since 1999. I hope that the Welsh Government and Labour Members will recognise that we have moved a considerable way on this, and will see the importance of providing as much certainty and continuity as possible for businesses in Wales. We will continue to work closely with the Welsh Government to secure their agreement to promote a positive recommendation on a legislative consent motion in the Assembly.
Advice on the 24 areas, as well as on the others that we do not want to be subject to an order-making power, has come from industry itself. An expert panel was established, and businesses have raised genuine concerns about their UK prospects being undermined. Industry has advised us all the way along, and that is how we have ended up with these 24 areas. Any action to scupper that will be undermining—genuinely undermining —industry and business, as well as investment prospects, in Wales.
Agriculture is a key area of the Welsh economy and central to our way of life across Wales. Last summer, I hosted the Environment Secretary at the Royal Welsh show where, in one his first official engagements, he met the Farmers Unions of Wales, the National Farmers Union Cymru, the Country Land and Business Association and other key stakeholders, as well as my hon. Friend the Member for Brecon and Radnorshire (Chris Davies), who was working at the show that day. Our engagement with them has continued since then, with all of them having regular access to UK Government Ministers and officials. Most recently, the farming Minister—the Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Food, my hon. Friend the Member for Camborne and Redruth (George Eustice)—met a group of representatives at the Royal Welsh agricultural showground to discuss our exit from the EU, but also to talk about longer-term plans for the UK’s environment and agriculture sectors.
At many of those meetings, if not all, geographical indicators have been raised, because we all recognise the importance of labelling, marketing and branding our produce. A moment ago, I talked about clause 11 and frameworks. This is a good example of why a UK approach is needed to protect the interests of producers and consumers. We obviously need common regulations on food labelling across the UK because we rightly want to protect the status of Welsh lamb, Welsh beef, Halen Môn and many other brands, so that they are recognised and protected across the UK and beyond. That does not mean, as has been suggested, a one-size-fits-all approach to branding. We are committed to protecting all 84 of the registered geographical indicators now and after EU exit.
Albert Owen (Ynys Môn) (Lab)
The Secretary of State makes an important point about what the UK wants. Has he had discussions with European Ministers or Commissioners about what they will allow in respect of such branding in the future? Many brands, including Halen Môn in my constituency which he mentioned, are very concerned about this issue.
Alun Cairns
The hon. Gentleman raises an important point. Like me, he highlighted Halen Môn, which has gained significantly from its geographical indicator brand. He will recognise that these issues are subject to negotiations. I expect our discussions with the European Union to take place on a positive footing, but of course we cannot pre-empt anything.
Mr David Jones (Clwyd West) (Con)
Does my right hon. Friend agree that the European Union has an equal interest in ensuring that its products receive similar protection? For example, the United Kingdom is one of the biggest markets in the world for champagne. I am sure that the new Conwy vineyards in Mochdre would be delighted to label their excellent products as champagne, but I think they would be entirely happy to see their products equally protected.
Alun Cairns
My right hon. Friend is very sharp on these matters and recognises their importance, as I am sure do many of the champagne drinkers on the other side of the Chamber. A vineyard in my constituency was caught out by the geographical indicators when it labelled its sparkling wine “llampagne”. Unfortunately, the European Commission threatened to take action and the company rebranded its product. My right hon. Friend underlines my point that we hope that these elements of the negotiation will take place on a positive basis as we leave the European Union and consider the new opportunities that that will provide.
On another topical issue, I want to reassure Members that work continues between my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy, my office and the Welsh Government on the Swansea Bay tidal lagoon. As the Business Secretary said last week, the Swansea proposal is more than twice as expensive as Hinkley nuclear power station, so we will continue discussions with the Welsh Government to look at the affordability of the case and do everything possible to make it a reality. However, the challenges are quite obvious.
Jo Stevens (Cardiff Central) (Lab)
As much as we are all enjoying the tour around the Secretary of State’s Outlook diary and the various visits and meetings he has had, in that time he could have made a decision with his Cabinet colleagues about the Swansea tidal lagoon. It is over a year since the Hendry report; when will we hear a result and a decision?
Alun Cairns
As we have said, we will respond as quickly as we possibly can. However, the hon. Lady will recognise that this is quite a dynamic environment. The price of renewable energy has plummeted over that period and the numbers from the tidal lagoon company have also changed, so perhaps the delay will prove to bring better value for money for the taxpayer. As I have said, the current proposal is twice as expensive as Hinkley nuclear power station, and I am sure the hon. Lady wants to see good value for money for the taxpayer, whatever the outcome.
David T. C. Davies (Monmouth) (Con)
Does my right hon. Friend agree that if Opposition Members were serious about getting the project off the ground, they would recommend to the First Minister of Wales that he accept the invitation to appear before the Welsh Affairs Committee and explain the apparent gift of £200 million that he briefed the Western Mail on, instead of hiding behind the excuse that he will not come for some reason?
Alun Cairns
I am grateful to my hon. Friend for highlighting the need for hard negotiations and discussions about what the facts are. Many claims have been made, but ultimately it comes down to whether the case provides value for money. As I have said many times, we must ensure that large-scale projects provide value for money for taxpayers and consumers. My hon. Friend will remember the very difficult decision the Welsh Government faced when they decided to cancel the Circuit of Wales in Blaenau Gwent. Despite wanting to do something, they knew ultimately that it was not good value for money, as the numbers proved.
Anna McMorrin (Cardiff North) (Lab)
Will the Secretary of State tell us when he has accepted an invitation to an Assembly Committee? On the tidal lagoon, does he agree that this is not just about a one-off project that will create valuable renewable energy; it is about the knock-on effects throughout south Wales, the technology that will be created and all the other tidal lagoons that will be created as a result?
Alun Cairns
I appeared before the Assembly’s External Affairs and Additional Legislation Committee just a few months ago. I have been in front of them on a number of occasions.
The hon. Lady will have had a close relationship with the Circuit of Wales and the challenging decision that that involved. The principles behind the Circuit of Wales decision apply equally to the value for money of any major infrastructure project. As we analyse the numbers, I am sure that she and other Members would not want to see investment that was not good value for money for the taxpayer.
Ben Lake (Ceredigion) (PC)
Before we move on from Swansea and the topic of cancelled projects, does the Secretary of State agree that there is a strong argument to reinvest any funding that was allocated to the electrification of the south Wales main line, which has been cancelled, in the Welsh network?
Alun Cairns
The hon. Gentleman raises an interesting point, but he well knows that, as the hon. Member for Slough (Mr Dhesi) indicated earlier, the rail network is far more integrated than that. I would highlight the investment in the Halton curve. Although it is in England, it will benefit north Wales passengers by linking Wrexham to Liverpool directly. We therefore cannot be prescriptive about what will bring benefits. There are exciting opportunities to improve access to west Wales. For example, there are calls from significant quarters for a Swansea parkway station. That holds the prospect of transforming access for west Wales passengers and is something that I am quite excited about.
I would love to talk about the Severn tolls and the growth deals in much more detail, but unfortunately time has got the better of us. I want to use this opportunity to celebrate the great success that Wales has to offer in the UK and beyond. From abolishing the Severn tolls to supporting exporters and investors, we continue to show our commitment to Wales. Growth in Wales is strong, and Cardiff saw the highest increase in growth of all UK capital cities in 2016. It is clear that investors see Wales as a great place to invest. There is clearly a lot to celebrate and I look forward to the stimulating debate ahead of us.