Oral Answers to Questions
John Glen Excerpts(3 days, 10 hours ago)
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Sir Chris Bryant (Rhondda) (Lab)
The Minister for the Cabinet Office and Paymaster General (John Glen)
The Prime Minister is responsible for the ministerial code, and is the ultimate judge of the standards of behaviour expected of Ministers, which are set out in that code. All Ministers are expected to uphold the principles of the code, as the Prime Minister has made clear.
Christian Wakeford
On 19 April, the Advisory Committee on Business Appointments wrote to the Deputy Prime Minister to report a breach of the rules by the former Prime Minister Boris Johnson in relation to a visit to Venezuela to meet President Maduro on behalf of the hedge fund Merlyn Advisors. Was the Cabinet Office aware of the visit in advance, and did the Deputy Prime Minister—the Secretary of State—or officials have a conversation with the Foreign Office about any tax-funded briefings that he may have received?
John Glen
The Government expect all former Ministers, including Prime Ministers, to abide by their obligations with regard to the business appointment rules set out in the ministerial code. The Cabinet Office is currently considering a letter on this matter from the Advisory Committee on Business Appointments, and will respond in due course.
Dr Huq
In addition to Boris Johnson’s hedge fund lobbying in Venezuela there is his Daily Mail column, as well as his lettuce PM successor’s contravention of the Radcliffe rules in betraying royal confidences in her book. The Minister has said that the Prime Minister is judge and jury in respect of the code. Is it not time for a more independent system, such as Labour’s proposed ethics and integrity commission? If the Government will not do that, can they not just call a general election now?
John Glen
The seven principles on public life are very clear, and I have set out the Prime Minister’s expectations, but let me draw the hon. Lady’s attention to what was said by the Committee on Standards in Public Life in 2021, namely, that a single commission would “come with considerable disadvantages” and that
“the concentration of such power to a body…does not sit well in our democratic system”.
Sir Chris Bryant
It is fascinating to see four times as many Ministers as Conservative Back Benchers in the Chamber today.
Paragraph 1(3)(d) of the ministerial code says:
“Ministers should be as open as possible with Parliament and the public”,
and paragraph 1(3)(f) says:
“Ministers must ensure that no conflict arises, or appears to arise”.
Why, then, are the Government still refusing to publish the details of the financial interests that the Foreign Secretary had before he was appointed to the House of Lords, why are they still refusing—despite numerous requests from newspapers and others—to publish the facts of whether or not the Foreign Secretary has had to recuse himself from certain elements of his job because of his previous involvement with the Chinese state, and why are they point-blank refusing to say which parts of his job he is recused from?
John Glen
According to the advice of the Independent Adviser on Ministers’ Interests, last published on 14 December 2023, following a previous publication on 17 July which updated advice issued on 19 April, the process of ministerial engagement with the register is ongoing, and is updated on an ongoing basis. When Ministers are appointed, they fill in an extensive form which their permanent secretaries then review, and there is a continuous process of updating that as interests evolve.
John Glen
I explained in an earlier answer where we are in terms of the Cabinet Office considering the letter from ACOBA. We do expect all Ministers, civil servants and special advisers to abide by those business appointment rules. They are contractual requirements for civil servants and are drawn to the attention of Ministers by the ministerial code. As was announced in the Government’s response last July to the report from the Committee on Standards on Public Life, Mr Boardman’s review and the Public Administration and Constitutional Affairs Committee, we are continuing to consider methods of strengthening the system and encouraging compliance with those rules. As for the specific case that the right hon. Gentleman has raised, I have said that the Cabinet Office is due to respond to that letter.
Nick Smith (Blaenau Gwent) (Lab)
Gerald Jones (Merthyr Tydfil and Rhymney) (Lab)
The Minister for the Cabinet Office and Paymaster General (John Glen)
In January, I appointed an expert group to provide technical advice on the inquiry’s recommendations on compensation. The Government will provide an update on next steps regarding those recommendations as soon as possible following the publication of the final report on 20 May.
Gerald Jones
Justice is long, long overdue on this issue. A constituent affected by this issue told me what they had been through, which included a liver transplant, many antiviral regimes, ongoing health impacts and dealing with the fact that many of their peers—the children they spent time with when they were growing up—are no longer with us. There is simply no financial or political price high enough to cover the stress and impact on their mental wellbeing. This House has shown its will on this issue, so why are we still waiting and, importantly, when will people start to receive the compensation, given that on average one person dies every four days as a result of this scandal?
John Glen
The hon. Gentleman makes absolutely the right points and I agree with his call for urgency. As I set out in my response to the urgent question a few days ago, my absolute priority is delivering this as quickly as possible. The legislation to set up the infected blood compensation authority is in the other place and will be debated next Tuesday. We announced on 17 April what we are doing on interim payments to the estates of the deceased infected. Further work is going on and I am engaging with the community over the first 10 days of May—so before 20 May, when the report will be published. His representation on urgency is heard by me and I am working on it as quickly as I can.
John Glen
The costings will be a responsibility of the Treasury, but a joint team between the Cabinet Office and the Treasury is working to give advice to the Prime Minister so that we can make decisions in a timely way as soon as possible from 20 May. I am conscious of the fact that across all the different communities of infected and affected as much clarity is needed as possible. They have had to wait too long, so I am making sure that, as far as we can, when those final decisions are made there will be not only a headline decision, but clarity on process thereafter. It is those details I am working on now and I hope that a decision can be made as soon as possible from 20 May.
Kirsty Blackman (Aberdeen North) (SNP)
Having a child with a rare condition who continues to get sicker despite treatment is every parent’s worst nightmare. Recent revelations that children as young as three were immorally used as guinea pigs and given infected blood are truly horrific. Without payouts of compensation, how can any parent have faith that the UK Government will ensure accountability and that they will take real responsibility for this scandal?
John Glen
The hon. Lady makes a powerful point. She refers to what has come out in the press in the past few weeks. I am anticipating that on 20 May Sir Brian Langstaff’s final report will reveal in harrowing detail not only the allegations and what happened a long time ago, but the consequences, which have been profound and life-changing for so many people in this country. I listened to her and the advice she gave me after the last oral questions, and I will be visiting Scotland and working with the devolved Administrations to ensure that we have a United Kingdom approach.
Sarah Dyke (Somerton and Frome) (LD)
Kirsty Blackman (Aberdeen North) (SNP)
Last year, the UK Government promised to relocate hundreds of civil service posts to the north-east of Scotland. It has now been confirmed that the total number will be 35. Given the billions generated in energy revenues and the unparalleled potential of our area in powering our green future, can the Minister please explain to the people of the north-east of Scotland how hundreds and 35 are now the same thing?
The Minister for the Cabinet Office and Paymaster General (John Glen)
I think the hon. Lady is referring to the second headquarters of the Department for Energy Security and Net Zero in Aberdeen, which I visited just before Christmas. I think that there was a misunderstanding about the numbers that were quoted in the paper. Some 18,283 jobs have moved out of London as a consequence of the places for growth programme. I will examine the number that have moved to Scotland, and write to her to clarify the Government’s position.
Kerry McCarthy (Bristol East) (Lab)
John Glen
My hon. Friend makes a very strong point. If a devolved Administration receives a donation as part of a political campaign—if the leader of that Administration receives a £200,000 donation at the same time that the Development Bank of Wales makes a £400,000 loan to a subsidiary of that company—that is surely a matter of public interest. It will be for the First Minister of Wales to determine what is appropriate, but I would have thought some explanation would be the very least that the people of Wales would expect.
Wendy Chamberlain (North East Fife) (LD)
John Glen
The hon. Lady is right: in July, in response to those three reports from the Committee on Standards in Public Life, the Boardman review and the Public Administration and Constitutional Affairs Committee, the Government did say they would work up strengthening the rules on business appointments and developing that ministerial deed. I cannot give an update at this point, because it is work the Deputy Prime Minister and his team are leading on, but it is important work and we do need to get it right.
Dame Diana Johnson (Kingston upon Hull North) (Lab)
John Glen
I thank the right hon. Lady for her kind words and her constructive approach. It is absolutely right that she continues to press me, as she does at every opportunity. Reflecting on our conversations and what she has said to me, the key thing is to ensure that we maintain and reclaim the trust of the infected blood community in all its dimensions. She will know that I am engaging with them in depth over several meetings on 1 and 10 May. Sir Brian Langstaff made clear that the infected blood community and all those accessing the scheme should have a role to play in its delivery, so, consequential to listening to what they say to me, I will be thinking about how we build that in. As she knows, the Government have made provisions for committees and sub-committees to ensure representation of the communities, while also maintaining an independent, arm’s length body. I will need to reconcile those. I am sorry that I cannot give her a timetable, but I am working on it in some detail.
Nick Smith (Blaenau Gwent) (Lab)
Dr Rupa Huq (Ealing Central and Acton) (Lab)
With two former Conservative Prime Ministers having recently contravened the ministerial code—twice, in the case of Boris Johnson—and the Radcliffe rules, in the case of his successor, the right hon. Member for South West Norfolk (Elizabeth Truss), is it now Tory party policy to routinely ignore the rules? If not, what sanctions will they face?
John Glen
The hon. Lady is correct to say that the book by the former Prime Minister, my right hon. Friend the Member for South West Norfolk (Elizabeth Truss), was reviewed under the Radcliffe rules. The Cabinet Office did not clear it. The overwhelming majority of books that are submitted do comply. We will have to keep these matters under review.
Sir Chris Bryant (Rhondda) (Lab)
This is a very simple question to the Deputy Prime Minister: does the Foreign Secretary stand recused in any aspect of his job by virtue of his financial interests, either now or before he was appointed to his post—yes or no?
Chi Onwurah (Newcastle upon Tyne Central) (Lab)
The Paymaster General told my right hon. Friend the Member for Kingston upon Hull North (Dame Diana Johnson) that he could not give a timeline with regard to the infected blood scandal compensation. This subject is raised on an almost daily basis in this House by Members on both sides, because our constituents just cannot understand why it is taking so long. Can he at least give an indication of when he thinks compensation might begin to be paid? It is especially important given that, as I understand it, one victim of the scandal dies every four days.
John Glen
The answer to this is to be found when we issue the comprehensive response to the inquiry, as soon as possible after 20 May. Legislation is going through the other place to make good on the amendment that was passed in this House by virtue of the advocacy and leadership of the right hon. Member for Kingston upon Hull North (Dame Diana Johnson). We have announced that we will make some interim payments to the estates of those deceased infected who have not yet received any money, but the substantive response to translate 18 recommendations into meaningful and actionable responses for a wide community over 40 or 50 years obviously demands a lot of work to quantify and get the process right. We will update the House as quickly as possible after 20 May.
Gerald Jones (Merthyr Tydfil and Rhymney) (Lab)
Just now, the Deputy Prime Minister raised the issue of the £75 billion public spending announcement. Would he care to tell the House why, after 14 years in power, it takes an upcoming general election for him and his party to make defence spending policies?
Alison Thewliss (Glasgow Central) (SNP)
Papers at an employment tribunal last week reported that Rowaa Ahmar, a former civil servant, stated that
“the racism within the Cabinet Office appeared to be unrelenting and systemic”,
and that, despite having a role as head of policy in the Government’s illegal migration taskforce, she was made unwelcome at meetings about the Rwanda plan because of her views on the racist ultra-hostility of the policies. Is Ms Ahmar right that speaking up against racism in the Cabinet Office is a career death sentence?
John Glen
I do not accept that at all. Of course, Ms Ahmar withdrew her allegations completely on the eve of having them scrutinised at the higher tribunal, so I do not accept that, and it is absolutely right that senior civil servants take action when there are performance issues with the staff under them, without fear of allegations being made against them.
Christian Wakeford (Bury South) (Lab)
Further to the question asked by my right hon. Friend the Member for Kingston upon Hull North (Dame Diana Johnson) about the infected blood scandal, the Cumberlege report highlighted over three years ago the need for redress for victims of the sodium valproate, vaginal mesh and Primodos scandals. What progress has been made on redress for those victims?
John Glen
I am sorry; I am not able to give an answer on those other scandals. There was a Backbench Business debate on redress schemes last Thursday, to which the Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office, my hon. Friend the Member for Brentwood and Ongar (Alex Burghart) replied. I believe that work is ongoing, but I will have to write to the hon. Gentleman to give him a thorough answer on the matter.
Infected Blood Inquiry
John Glen Excerpts(5 days, 10 hours ago)
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Urgent Questions are proposed each morning by backbench MPs, and up to two may be selected each day by the Speaker. Chosen Urgent Questions are announced 30 minutes before Parliament sits each day.
Each Urgent Question requires a Government Minister to give a response on the debate topic.
This information is provided by Parallel Parliament and does not comprise part of the offical record
Dame Diana Johnson (Kingston upon Hull North) (Lab)
(Urgent Question): To ask the Minister for the Cabinet Office to make a statement on the evidence uncovered of experiments on children and the contaminated blood scandal, and update the House on the action that the Government are taking on the second interim report from Sir Brian Langstaff.
The Minister for the Cabinet Office and Paymaster General (John Glen)
Let me start by stating that the stories reported in the recent BBC news article, and indeed The Sunday Times report by Caroline Wheeler, demonstrate the unimaginable suffering of all those impacted by this dreadful scandal. As the House will know, in 2017 the Government established an independent public statutory inquiry chaired by Sir Brian Langstaff, to give those impacted and their families the answers that they deserve.
Since it was established, the inquiry has taken evidence from a range of sources, and the testimonies are indicative of the bravery of every individual who has come forward. The infected blood inquiry’s final report is due to be published within a month, on 20 May, and we expect the inquiry’s findings to cover a set of extremely challenging issues. It would not be right for the Government to pre-empt the findings of this long-prepared and carefully considered report, but the Government have committed to update Parliament through an oral statement on next steps within 25 sitting days following 20 May. It is our intention to make that statement as soon as possible. The 25-day stipulation is a deadline, and certainly not a target.
In January this year, I appointed an expert group to provide technical advice to the Cabinet Office in responding to the infected blood inquiry’s recommendations on compensation. That work is well under way and will build on the recommendations of the infected blood inquiry to inform the Government’s substantive response to the inquiry’s recommendations on compensation. The Government understand the need to move quickly to provide compensation to victims of infected blood. Most recently, we tabled amendments just last Wednesday to the Victims and Prisoners Bill to impose a duty on the Government to establish an infected blood compensation scheme. It also establishes a new arm’s length body, named the infected blood compensation authority, to deliver the compensation scheme. It will operate on a UK-wide basis to ensure parity and consistency. That demonstrates our absolute commitment to deliver long overdue justice to victims of infected blood.
We understand that for many there is an urgent need for compensation. As the House will know, in October 2022, the Government paid more than £400 million in interim compensation to help to ease the short-term needs of those infected. The Government amendment also includes a statutory duty to make interim payments of £100,000 to the estates of the deceased infected people who were registering with existing or former support schemes, where previous interim payments have not already been made to infected individuals or their bereaved partners. That is an important step forward to get substantial compensation into the hands of families and victims of infected blood. Should that Government amendment be supported in the other place, it will return to this House for debate in the usual process of Commons consideration of Lords amendments.
Dame Diana Johnson
We know that more than 3,000 people have already died in the worst treatment disaster in the history of the NHS. Another 680 have died since the public inquiry started in 2018. With two people dying on average every week, 100 people have died since Sir Brian made his final recommendations on paying compensation in April 2023. He said that
“wrongs were done at individual, collective and systemic levels.”
He also said that in all conscience he could not wait until his final report was published to tell the Government to start paying compensation.
Last week, Hugh Pym of the BBC produced shocking evidence about children, even babies, being experimented on in the 1970s and 1980s without their parents’ consent. These disturbing revelations raise serious criminal and ethical issues for the NHS and the medical profession. There are possible breaches of the 1947 Nuremberg code. Alongside that, The Sunday Times, and Caroline Wheeler, in particular launched a campaign at the weekend for compensation to be paid now to those infected and affected by the contaminated blood scandal. So far, more than 160 MPs have backed the campaign, and 10 parties are represented, including six leaders.
Last week, the Government finally laid those amendments to the Victims and Prisoners Bill in the other place after this House forced the Government to act in December last year. This weekend, Ministers confirmed that even when Sir Brian produces his final report on 20 May, the Government may not respond until as late as 3 July 2024. Meanwhile, there has been no announcement on compensation funding or on any compensation scheme, despite the Government having accepted the moral case for compensation.
What action are the Government taking following last week’s BBC story on the experiments on children? When will Sir Brian’s recommendations on compensation be implemented in full? On what date will payments be made to those infected and affected? Why have the interim payments not been made, as Sir Brian recommended last April? How will those infected and affected be involved in the whole scheme? Why are Ministers rejecting the three-month timeframe for setting up a compensation body that this House agreed to in December last year, and Sir Brian’s recommendation that it should be judge-led?
On all sides of the House, Members know that when people are dying, justice delayed is justice denied. The time to act is now.
John Glen
I thank the right hon. Lady for her questions and initial comments. Nobody in this House has done more than her to advance the interests of the infected and affected communities, as I have said consistently since I took office on 13 November. I recognise her frustrations and am doing everything I can to address them. Last week, I met her and other Chairs, across parties, as I did just before the Easter recess, and I will continue to update her as regularly as I can.
The right hon. Lady draws attention to commentary from Hugh Pym and other journalists about speculation and allegations, which I believe Sir Brian Langstaff’s report, when it is published on 20 May, should give substantive airing to, drawing on the evidence collected. It would be reasonable for the Government to wait for that authoritative statement on what information and evidence they have gathered before we respond, but that does not mean that, since I took office, I have been doing anything other than move forward everything I can on compensation as quickly as possible.
The right hon. Lady is quite right to say that over 3,000 deaths have occurred since 1970, including 141 last year. I recognise that the challenge of urgently securing interim payments, in terms of the mechanics of how it is done, is not a concern of the infected and affected community. She quite reasonably stands up and urges speed on that, and I am doing what I can. The statutory duty to make an interim payment of £100,000 to the estates of the deceased infected people is the first time that we have put in legislation a duty to pay compensation before the ad hoc schemes, which, over the past 45 or 50 years, have never admitted culpability. I have also put into legislation, with the consent of both Houses, the need to set up the arm’s length body and make it as operational as soon as possible.
As I discussed with the right hon. Lady last week, my concern is to get that arm’s length body up and running as quickly as possible, and there is a legal obligation to do so when Royal Assent is gained—there is no statutory deadline but there is a responsibility to do that. I recognise the concern around a judge-led body. Indeed, Sir Brian Langstaff’s report suggests that a judge-led body would be desirable—I do not rule that out—but at this stage it seems reasonable not to confine it in legislation in case another candidate becomes available. Clearly, however, gaining the confidence of the affected and infected communities is absolutely integral to this process working. As I say, I am doing everything I can to bring forward the Government’s substantive response on the widest issues of compensation as near as I can to the 20 May, and I will update the House as often as I can. Indeed, I have made time available tomorrow for an open surgery for any MP who wants to bring cases to me.
Sir Peter Bottomley (Worthing West) (Con)
May I follow the tributes to the great Dame—the right hon. Member for Kingston upon Hull North (Dame Diana Johnson)—for what she has been doing?
I have been actively involved in this in one way or another for 25 years. We all know that the justification for having the Langstaff inquiry has been the information that has now come out in public, which was concealed or not known over the decades. We also know that this is different from most of the discussions in the Pearson report on whether there should be compensation when things go wrong in medical treatment. This report is likely to show how, since the war, people have not paid enough attention to the warnings given by those in the field. With the update of Caroline Wheeler’s book and the BBC programme, we now know that, as well as the haemophilia trials published in the 1970s, the 1980s trials showed massive defects by the standards of those days, let alone by up-to-date standards.
I join the right hon. Lady in asking the Minister when it will be possible for people to register their names, backgrounds and circumstances for compensation. Do we have to wait until a month’s time for that to happen, and how will it be dealt with? Obviously, as the Cabinet Office Minister, he follows his predecessor in carrying this responsibility, but how far will the Department of Health and Social Care be involved, and will other Departments be involved?
John Glen
My hon. Friend makes wise observations. I did not mean not to pay tribute to him in a similar way; his commitment to this cause, probably over my lifetime, is extraordinary.
In respect of the £100,000 payments announced through the Government amendment tabled last Wednesday, we will be working with the existing support schemes to expedite them as quickly as possible for the estates of the deceased infected. On the substantive response on the wider complete compensation, through last week’s intervention, and building on the amendment of the right hon. Member for Kingston upon Hull North (Dame Diana Johnson), we have established the delivery vehicle for compensation.
On the challenge that we were somehow delaying compensation, which was reasonably made, I think that what I have said to the House this afternoon makes it clear that we are committed in legislation to delivering that compensation, but that the terms of how we do so, and how we respond to translating those 18 recommendations into reality, is ongoing work that I will seek to address substantively as soon as possible by 20 May.
John Glen
I thank the hon. Lady for her questions. Respectfully, the amendment tabled by the right hon. Member for Kingston upon Hull North was dependent on Royal Assent. I have tried to make it effective by putting an obligation on the set-up as soon as Royal Assent is granted, which will speed it up. I am working on operational matters around how such a body would work.
The hon. Lady asked me, as everyone does, about the Government’s substantive response on compensation more broadly. As I have indicated, I appointed the expert group in January to examine some of the issues in the recommendations, such as the need for redress for those living with chronic hepatitis B when that chronic infection definition did not exist. I have been seeking professional advice on the operationalisation of the recommendations. The conclusions of those deliberations, and the quantification and discernment of compensation, will be a matter for the Government when the final report has been published.
Kevin Foster (Torbay) (Con)
Like others, I have cases that have been waiting decades for a resolution, and which were pursued by my predecessor. When will those affected be able to start applying for compensation?
John Glen
I refer my hon. Friend to my reply a few moments ago about the £100,000 payment to the estates of deceased infected persons. The ultimate compensation will depend on what is arranged through conversations across Whitehall as soon as possible after 20 May. We are making good progress, and I want to bring that forward as quickly as I can after 20 May. Given the will of the House and the letter signed by so many MPs, it is pretty clear that it is on the Government to deliver, and that is what I am seeking to do as quickly as I can.
Alison Thewliss (Glasgow Central) (SNP)
I pay tribute to the right hon. Member for Kingston upon Hull North (Dame Diana Johnson), who has done so much, and to journalists such as Caroline Wheeler of The Sunday Times and all those who have campaigned for decades, despite their own very deep trauma. They include Jan Smith, the mother of Colin, one of the youngest victims who was infected at only 10 months old, and who died aged only seven. She said in The Sunday Times at the weekend:
“When we found out little Colin was going to be treated by a world-renowned haematologist we were over the moon. Professor Bloom was like a God to us and we didn’t question him. We thought our son was being given the best possible treatment. But we will feel forever guilty that we had in fact handed our son over to his killer.”
These parents should not be burdened with this guilt. An estimated 380 children were infected in a massive breach of trust and medical ethics. It is every parent’s worst nightmare. What does the Minister say to the parents of children who were used as guinea pigs, in an utterly despicable practice that was made worse by the lack of redress for those families? When will all those infected and affected receive the compensation they are due, and an apology from this Government?
John Glen
I can reassure the hon. Lady that I am doing everything I can to bring that forward as quickly as possible. I recognise that the distress is widespread and is felt by individuals and families across the United Kingdom. I am working across the devolved Administrations to ensure that there is a UK-wide arm’s length body. My officials are working with prominent charities, organisations and support groups. I am reaching out to them to share progress, reassure the community that I have heard their concerns and seek their views in advance of 20 May. I am doing that out of deep respect for the suffering that they have experienced. On the substantive matter the hon. Lady asked me about, I refer her to my reply a few moments ago.
Matt Hancock (West Suffolk) (Ind)
When I was Health Secretary, I committed the Government to ensuring that the compensation recommended by Sir Brian be paid, and made the moral case that the UK Government must address this wrong. The stories from Caroline Wheeler and Hugh Pym have made that moral case stronger still. Can I push the Minister to move as fast as possible, but hold in his mind the critical nature of getting the response right as well? I commend his officials, who have worked so hard on this matter for so long. I entirely understand the need for urgency, but he must get it right at the same time. He is a diligent and deeply honourable man, and I hope he will hold that in his heart as he addresses the issue in the weeks to come.
John Glen
I thank my right hon. Friend for his remarks and for what he has done on this matter. He is right: I feel responsibility both to get the substantive announcement agreed as quickly as possible and to ensure clear communication with the infected and affected community so that they have clear expectations of what will happen following that announcement. From all I have read and all that my officials have briefed me on, I recognise that this is likely to be one of the biggest scandals in the NHS that this country has seen. I respect Sir Brian Langstaff and his extensive work over several years. I wait respectfully for his final report on the wider issues on 20 May.
Mrs Paulette Hamilton (Birmingham, Erdington) (Lab)
My constituent contacted me again yesterday. His father and uncles were all infected with contaminated blood, and all but two of the uncles have now died. He said to me:
“I had to grow up in care due to my father being too ill to look after me. We have been fighting for many, many years for justice.”
He thinks that the Government are dragging their feet on compensating victims. He is right, isn’t he?
John Glen
All I can do is account for what I have done since 13 November. I cannot really comment on the several decades previous to that. As the hon. Lady will know, we have had a series of ad hoc schemes, but the Government’s accepting culpability for what happened many years ago and the subsequent failure to respond will need to be addressed fully after 20 May. The Government’s amendment in the House of Lords is the first time that we will have put in legislation a duty to pay compensation. That is the start of a more comprehensive response that I am working on to secure collective agreement across Government, and I want to bring that forward as quickly as I am able to do so.
Sir Julian Lewis (New Forest East) (Con)
The Langstaff recommendation for interim payments was because of the need for speed; because people are so ill. How many people do the Government believe to be still living who were infected in this scandal? How many of them applied for the interim payments? What proportion of those who applied have received the payments? If my right hon. Friend does not have the figures with him today, will he undertake to write to me and place a copy of the letter in the House of Commons Library?
John Glen
My right hon. Friend customarily asks precise and penetrating questions. I do not want to quote the few figures that I think I know, so I will write him a considered reply, which I will make available. Far too many people have suffered and far too many have died. We need to put this right as quickly as possible.
Wendy Chamberlain (North East Fife) (LD)
I congratulate the right hon. Member for Kingston upon Hull North (Dame Diana Johnson) on her work to date. When I engage with my constituents, it is clear that not only have they lost loved ones to a preventable and painful death, but the stigma that those loved ones lived with during their life is part of the issue. Members across the House rightly want answers about the interim payments, because those families have received no compensation and no apology to date. If the Minister cannot give a date that people can expect payments, can he at least give some clarity on how they will be able to apply?
John Glen
First, I agree entirely with the hon. Lady with respect to the stigma. One cannot fail to be moved by the accounts of people in the 1980s; when they contracted HIV, the stigma in society was very different from where we are today. That has caused damage to relationships, to lives, and obviously to health—many people’s cases have been terminal.
The statutory duty to make interim payments of £100,000 to the estates of deceased infected people will be carried out through the existing schemes. We are working with those schemes to work out how best to do that. That is different from recommendation 12, in that the Government took the view that we did not want to overwhelm the will of the estates—rather than divide it up among family members, which could be problematic and would cause delay. While I cannot give an authoritative date now, urgent work is ongoing to give clarity on the process for those people to register and to receive those payments.
Alexander Stafford (Rother Valley) (Con)
The infected blood scandal is one of the biggest stains on the history of the NHS. I am pleased to hear that we are getting interim payments out as quickly as possible, but the Minister has talked about giving payments to deceased people’s estates rather than named individuals. Could he outline his reasoning? We want to make sure that compensation goes to the correct people quickly.
John Glen
My hon. Friend makes a very good point. One of the challenges is that some cohorts of people are not registered but have been part of a scheme that does not now exist. How do we best expedite the process across that affected community? Those are the sorts of practical issues that I am working through with officials, so that we can reach the best possible solution when we give our comprehensive response in due course.
Clive Efford (Eltham) (Lab)
“Cheaper than chimpanzees” was how former pupils of Treloar’s school described themselves when they gave evidence to the inquiry. My constituent, Lee Moorey, was one of the pupils of that school, and has described to me how he felt that he was experimented on all those years ago. We have set up the Brian Langstaff inquiry; what more can the Government possibly want to know than what that inquiry is going to uncover, and why are they delaying compensation? Will the Minister confirm that nothing has been preventing the Government from paying compensation since the date that Brian Langstaff published his interim report last April?
John Glen
There is a challenge in translating 18 recommendations into numbers and into the reality of a transmission mechanism, as well as in the quantification and agreement across Whitehall. The work on the first part is under way: that is why we have engaged the experts to work out how to quantify the payments that will be due across different heads of loss. Quite reasonably, those numbers were not in the report—it would not be for Sir Brian Langstaff to put numbers on every single individual—but that work is under way. We are now working to agree the substantive response as soon as we can after the final report is published.
Mr Robin Walker (Worcester) (Con)
This week, I will be using the mechanisms of this House to do something that, in 14 years as an MP, I have never before felt the need to do: present a petition. At the top of that petition will be the name of my constituent, Andrew Evans, one of the children who was infected with hepatitis and HIV. By a miracle, he survived to set up and help run the Tainted Blood campaign. Like many of my affected and infected constituents, he feels that this process has already gone on for too long, so I am very grateful to the right hon. Member for Kingston upon Hull North (Dame Diana Johnson) for securing this urgent question.
I am also grateful to my right hon. Friend the Minister for the updates he has given, particularly about support for the estates of the deceased. However, I urge him to continue to meet groups such as Tainted Blood and make sure that the communication on this issue is as clear and open as possible, so that those groups are engaged and can support their members as the process moves forward—and to do so as fast as possible.
John Glen
I thank my hon. Friend, both for what he has said today and for his engagement privately in recent weeks. I agree with everything he has said, and I have heard his challenge to be clear about communications to prominent charities, organisations and support groups. Letters were sent by my officials yesterday evening to set up those meetings. I have talked to cross-party representatives of the all-party parliamentary group on haemophilia and contaminated blood, seeking input on the names of groups. I am trying to respect their confidence while also meeting as many representative groups as possible, and to do that well before 20 May.
Kirsten Oswald (East Renfrewshire) (SNP)
This is surely the worst health scandal that we have seen, with Government after Government kicking the can down the road. We need to accept that there is a need for change, including a change in speed and urgency. The continued delays and prevarication—I regret to say that it feels like we have seen some more of that today—exacerbate the suffering. We know that two people are dying every week. The Minister must know that the delay on this issue is indefensible, and he must know its impact. Does he appreciate why such a large number of Members are pushing for action now, and does he understand that that is what we need him to deliver?
John Glen
Yes, I do understand that. I deeply respect the views of colleagues who have made strong representations on this matter, and I am doing everything I can to move it forward as urgently as I can. I will not repeat myself regarding the things I have said with respect to steps taken last week, or the spirit in which I am engaging and the reasons why I am doing it, but I agree with the hon. Lady that speed is absolutely of the essence.
There has been a lot of speculation in articles in recent days—and, most prominently, in Caroline Wheeler’s book—about the wider issues: what went wrong and why these things happened. Those matters will need to be addressed, but through the lens of Sir Brian Langstaff’s report, which will be published finally on 20 May.
Andrew Gwynne (Denton and Reddish) (Lab)
I commend my right hon. Friend the Member for Kingston upon Hull North (Dame Diana Johnson) not just for securing this urgent question, but for all the work that she and others in this place have done on this important matter.
Sir Brian Langstaff made his final recommendations on compensation early—a whole year ago—and recommended that the compensatory body make payments by last December. He did so because he was worried about the effects of a delay on the affected and infected. We have missed all of those deadlines; is this what Sir Brian’s worst fear looked like?
John Glen
I sincerely hope not. What I have said with respect to the interim payment is a response to the dialogue I have had with Members across both Chambers of the House, working with Earl Howe in the other place. I have been pretty clear that in I am doing everything I can to put preparations in place for giving a legal entity the obligation to pay compensation, and to minimise delay in advance of the final determination of the Government’s response, so that that response can be operationalised as soon as the decision is finally made.
Pete Wishart (Perth and North Perthshire) (SNP)
Every time we have these urgent questions, we get a well-intentioned Minister giving a helpful but frustrating update about what is happening. This Minister is one of the most well intentioned, and today’s statement has been one of the most helpful, but what we want to hear—as the House has said clearly today—is a clear timeline for when applications for compensation can be made and when those payments will be made. He has come really close to telling us that today; can I encourage him to get over the line, tell us when it is going to happen, and satisfy all of us who are standing here on behalf of our constituents?
John Glen
The hon. Gentleman makes a very fair and reasonable point. I would wish to say more than I am saying today, but we have not quite got to that point; I am doing everything I can to get there.
On the hon. Gentleman’s specific point about the mechanics of engagement with communities, I am very seized of the need to have a clear narrative for each different cohort, so that we can be crystal clear when those decisions are made. I recognise how frustrating this is. Obviously, agreeing, quantifying and making provision for those things is a collective process across Government, and I am doing everything I can, using my experience from several years in the Treasury. It is helpful that the Chancellor of the Exchequer was Health Secretary when the public inquiry was set up, and I am working with colleagues across Whitehall to deliver this as quickly as I can.
Kerry McCarthy (Bristol East) (Lab)
One of the most upsetting aspects of this whole tragedy is the thought of those pupils at Treloar School being experimented on like “lab rats”, as one of the pupils said. They included brothers Michael and Bill Payne, and I met their widows Cath and Margaret over the Easter recess in Bristol. I accept that the Minister is trying to give detailed answers and that there are complexities, but what it really comes down to is the deep, deep wrong that was done to those little boys at Treloar’s, and compensation and apologies are owed to those people. Can I ask what the Minister is doing to communicate as clearly and effectively as possible with the families of those affected, so that they feel they are not being swamped by bureaucracy and that answers are close at hand?
John Glen
I have reached out to prominent charities, organisations and support groups to share the progress that has been made—I had to respect the fact that we needed to do that through the parliamentary process last Wednesday—and to seek their views, but not to replicate the considerable trauma that they went through giving evidence in an incredibly painful fashion through Sir Brian Langstaff’s inquiry. I am meeting those charities, organisations and support groups. I obviously cannot meet every single individual, but I am trying to use those meetings to inform the response of the Government and to make representations to my colleagues about what needs to be done so that we can land this in the most effective place as soon as we can from 20 May.
Patricia Gibson (North Ayrshire and Arran) (SNP)
Does the Minister recognise that many people feel that the state, with all its delays in delivering justice to the victims of this scandal and their families, has utterly failed to recognise adequately the egregious harm that has been inflicted and continues to be inflicted on those impacted, leaving tens of thousands of victims and their families in great suffering as they continue to wait for compensation?
John Glen
Yes, I recognise that all delays are painful and frustrating and cause distress. That is why I am doing everything I can to move this forward as quickly as I can. I am sorry that that is repetitious, but it is the truth. I think I have updated the House meaningfully today on the legislation. I know what we need to do, which is to get to 20 May and, as soon as possible, come up with a comprehensive response on behalf of all those who have lost their lives and the families who have been ruined by this absolute scandal that has happened over 50 years.
Grahame Morris (Easington) (Lab)
May I also give my thanks to my right hon. Friend the Member for Kingston upon Hull North (Dame Diana Johnson) for securing this urgent question? It gives me the opportunity to raise the case of my constituent Mark Fox, who contracted hepatitis C from infected blood when he was given a transfusion. He was just four years of age at the time. He was given contaminated factor VIII for his haemophilia. He was unaware of his hepatitis C diagnosis until he was 17, when he was in care. He has been living with the health consequences of this scandal for over 40 years. He lost his job, and we have mentioned the stigma. I say with all due respect to the Minister, because I know he is doing his best, that interim payments will offer a way of bringing relief to some of the survivors. Mark has asked me to ask the Minister how many more years he will have to wait before he receives either an interim payment or full and fair compensation for the suffering that he has endured.
John Glen
I thank the hon. Gentleman for his heartfelt representation on behalf of his constituent Mark Fox, and I am sincerely sorry for what he has experienced. I am doing everything I can to bring as much clarity as possible, but I cannot give the hon. Gentleman a definitive timetable today. I am working towards—I hope—giving a definitive timetable at the point of, or very soon after, the publication of this final report. I will do everything I can to bring clarity to all groups involved.
Hannah Bardell (Livingston) (SNP)
It has been seven years and we have had four Prime Ministers since this public inquiry was set up, and there have been many decades waited before then. Surely the Minister will agree that the stories of children being impacted are tantamount to state-sponsored abuse—abuse similar to that suffered by my constituents Linda Cannon, whose husband died after a contaminated blood transfusion, and Vera Gaskin, who has stage 2 cirrhosis of the liver. Sir Brian Langstaff said that it would clearly take political will to act quickly, and the circumstances here warrant that. When will the victims—our constituents and their families—get compensation and justice? Surely the Minister recognises that issues such as these, whether it is Primodos, the Post Office scandal or contaminated blood, are taking decades and re-traumatising our constituents while they wait and often die before getting justice. It is not good enough.
John Glen
I very much recognise what the hon. Lady is saying with respect to the impact of time on suffering, and I want to bring this forward as quickly as I can. I am doing that work and sponsoring work to gain the advice we need to make informed decisions that will allow us to make the widest possible decision in a few weeks’ time.
Debbie Abrahams (Oldham East and Saddleworth) (Lab)
I too am speaking on behalf of a constituent, who lost a brother and sister-in-law and whose nephew was left to be brought up by the family. I want to raise the urgency of this. I appreciate the Minister’s sincerity about what he is trying to do, and the fact that he has been in post for only a few months, but it is over a year now since Sir Brian Langstaff brought forward his report and said that interim payments were absolutely essential. I am trying to understand exactly where the block is. If this was a priority for the Government, it would have been done in that year, so where is the block?
John Glen
There is not a block. Last year, there was a process of looking at how we could work out the costs and the way of translating and operationalising the recommendations. That work is well under way, and Professor Sir Jonathan Montgomery and his team are helping with that. As I say, I hope that in a few weeks’ time we can get to a point where we will be able to make a substantive assertion of the Government’s position.
Chris Stephens (Glasgow South West) (SNP)
Building trust and confidence requires the support of the infected and affected community. Can the Minister confirm that the independent body’s executive will include representation from infected and affected people’s groups who can make decisions on processes, eligibility and decision making in order to build trust and confidence?
John Glen
I thank the hon. Gentleman for his question and for his engagement with me last week as one of the co-chairs of the APPG, when he made a similar point. I am reflecting carefully on what it takes to satisfy the recommendation to have a body independent of Government while also securing as much authority and as much confidence among the different communities involved as possible. I will update the House on that in due course.
Charlotte Nichols (Warrington North) (Lab)
My caseworker Paula was left bereaved as a teenager after her father was killed by HIV and hepatitis from infected blood products. She has suffered enormously since, including being bullied at school as a result of the stigma around HIV. She is now in her 40s and battling cancer, but despite the recommendation from Sir Brian Langstaff’s inquiry a year ago in April 2023 that the children who lost parents should be awarded interim compensation, she has yet to receive a penny. How much longer will the Government keep victims such as Paula waiting?
John Glen
I very much hope that we will be able to make a clear assessment of what we are going to do in a matter of weeks. I am doing everything I can to be clear about depicting for each different group, including some going back 40 or 50 years, what the process will be going forward. We owe that to all the victims and their families, and I will try and be as comprehensive as I can in that response when it comes.
Deidre Brock (Edinburgh North and Leith) (SNP)
Does the Minister think that the Prime Minister and senior Ministers will be attending the launch of the report on 20 May?
John Glen
I do not know. I have not had those conversations yet. If a representative of the Government is asked to be there, I am absolutely sure that that will be the case. If it is me, I will be very happy to attend.
Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)
I thank the Minister for his answers, and for his clear commitment to delivering for all those with severe health problems. Does he not agree that reading some of the information supplied by the BBC feels more like reading about a national regime’s atrocities than reading about action by our own healthcare professionals in the 1980s? It is quite distressing. How does the Minister believe that we can ever restore confidence in a process and procedures that allowed this to happen, and what assurances can the general public have that it could never happen again?
John Glen
When Sir Brian Langstaff publishes his report—and I have absolute confidence in the authority of the report that he will publish—that will be the time for a response from the Government on the wider implications of what went on and what evidence Sir Brian has gathered. As I said at the start of my response, we may have seen some elements of that in recent days, but I want to ensure that the Government respond authoritatively, and as fully as possible, when the moment of publication comes.
Cabinet Office
John Glen Excerpts(1 month, 2 weeks ago)
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Mick Whitley (Birkenhead) (Lab)
John Glen
I met several union leaders a few weeks ago. On 2 October, the Chancellor announced that the civil service would be capped at the levels that were current at that time, which would save up to £1 billion against the trajectory that was then in place. As of September 2023, there were 496,150 civil servants. It is an important Government responsibility to ensure that we have the right number of civil servants performing effectively and efficiently in public service, and we will continue to work on that.
[Official Report, 29 February 2024, Vol. 746, c. 428.]
Letter of correction from the Minister for the Cabinet Office and Paymaster General, the right hon. Member for Salisbury (John Glen):
An error has been identified in my response to the hon. Member for Birkenhead (Mick Whitley). The correct response should have been:
John Glen
I met several union leaders a few weeks ago. On 2 October, the Chancellor announced that the civil service would be capped at the levels that were current at that time, which would save up to £1 billion against the trajectory that was then in place. As of September 2023, there were 496,150 full - time equivalent civil servants. It is an important Government responsibility to ensure that we have the right number of civil servants performing effectively and efficiently in public service, and we will continue to work on that.
Oral Answers to Questions
John Glen Excerpts(1 month, 4 weeks ago)
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Grahame Morris (Easington) (Lab)
The Minister for the Cabinet Office and Paymaster General (John Glen)
The Government recognise the urgency of the issue and are committed to progressing the work as quickly as we can. For that reason, we have appointed an expert group to advise the Cabinet Office on detailed technical considerations. On Monday in the other place, the Government committed to bring forward an amendment to the Victims and Prisoners Bill on Report, with the intention of speeding up the implementation of the Government’s response to the infected blood inquiry.
Lloyd Russell-Moyle
My constituent Mark Ward, a haemophiliac, contracted HIV after being given contaminated blood at the Royal Free Hospital. He was 14. He is now 54, and it is four and a half years since he gave evidence at the inquiry and a year since the initial recommendations came out. It is a scandal, is it not, that the Government were forced to give in by a defeat in the other place? Frankly, the Government have been complicit in people’s lives continuing to be lost. How long before compensation will be paid? What date should I give Mr Ward? How many people’s lives will be lost while we wait for the Government to get into action?
John Glen
There are 54 working days before the report is published on Monday 20 May. The Government have committed to respond to it within 25 sitting days, but I will do everything I can to bring forward as substantive a response as possible as soon as possible after that date.
Alex Davies-Jones
My constituent Gerald Stone, a victim of the contaminated blood scandal, is 80 years old. He is in and out of hospital and is having to take morphine for the insurmountable pain he suffers. After bravely giving evidence to the public inquiry and the public seeing that story, his lifelong neighbours began to question whether it was safe to live on the same street as him and even went to the police. Victims such as Gerald deal with the physical and mental consequences every day, but one query he has for the Minister is the figure of 30,000 potential claimants, which has been disputed regularly and is one reason for the hold-up in providing justice. Will the Minister provide clarity on that figure?
John Glen
I am trying to ensure a comprehensive response as soon as possible. That is why we have appointed Professor Sir Jonathan Montgomery to head up a team to advise on how to implement the recommendations of the report. I am doing that as quickly as I can. There are issues around eligibility, the severity of disease and its progression, and so on, which I need to be sure on so that I can address the challenges that exist. With respect to the 30,000 figure, I cannot give a number from the Dispatch Box, but I will ensure that the Government response, when it comes, will be as comprehensive as possible, to give some assurance to the hon. Lady’s constituent.
Kerry McCarthy
ITV is now set to produce a drama about the contaminated blood scandal, following the success of “Mr Bates vs The Post Office”. As we know, thousands of people have been affected by the scandal, including my constituents, Catherine, who lost her husband in 2005, and Margaret, who lost her husband Bill in 2021. Bill was a local councillor. I knew him very well. He was an absolutely lovely man. He was also a trustee of the Haemophilia Society. Some people, including Bill, have been fighting this battle for 40 years. Why has it taken us this long to get to this point? Will it really take a TV drama to make the Government finally act?
John Glen
I am aware of the comments about a TV drama, but I am concerned to ensure that we build on the decision of this place on 4 December with respect to the Victims and Prisoners Bill. That Bill is working its way through the other place. Committee will finish on 12 March, so Report stage cannot happen before 15 April. Listening to the testimony of the hon. Lady and of those in the other place, whose nephews and husbands died as a result of contaminated blood, has made me more determined to ensure that the Government’s response is as comprehensive as possible and that it meets the expectations of everyone in this place and of the country at large.
Dame Diana Johnson
I think the Minister is a good man and is trying to do his best, but this is the biggest treatment scandal in the history of the NHS. We have had six years of a public inquiry. The Government have now had the recommendations on compensation for 12 months. I understand that the Minister has not yet met anyone infected or affected, or taken any soundings from any of the campaign groups. Now, we hear in a written question this week that his expert group were not allowed to know the names of those people or to have the minutes of those meetings or of any of the workings that are taking place. Does he understand that, after decades of cover-up and criminal activity, the lack of transparency with which the infected and affected are being treated is totally unacceptable?
John Glen
I explained to the right hon. Lady when I met her on 6 February, and again when I spoke to her on 8 February, the context of Professor Sir Jonathan Montgomery’s appointment. As she knows, Sir Brian recommends that eligibility for compensation includes those with hepatitis C, HIV and all chronic cases of hepatitis B.
On the right hon. Lady’s question about engagement with the groups, I am very keen to engage when the Report stage happens in the middle of April. I will then work on plans to engage with as many groups as possible across the United Kingdom, building on my conversations with representatives of the devolved Administrations on 6 February.
Grahame Morris
Since the recommendations of the infected blood inquiry were announced, another 82 victims of the scandal have sadly died. I note what the Minister said about the appointment of Sir Jonathan Montgomery as chair of the experts offering technical advice on the compensation talks, but may I express the anger of one of my constituents, who is a victim of the scandal, about that appointment? He has asked me to ask: what confidence can victims have in the compensation process when an individual who is linked to pharmaceutical firm Bayer—a company that supplied infected blood—and chairs the Oxford University Hospitals NHS Foundation Trust, which was at the epicentre of the scandal, is advising the Cabinet Office?
John Glen
I thank the hon. Gentleman for his question. The appointment of Sir Jonathan Montgomery was compliant with all the processes, similar to those used for the appointment of Sir Robert Francis and others. I recognise the concern expressed around Jonathan’s involvement with Bayer. That ceased at the end of October last year. He was part of an independent advisory group—not making executive decisions—for the pharmaceutical company. In the other place, the noble Baroness Brinton described Sir Jonathan as a “well-respected ethicist”. He has been asked not for further recommendations, but to advise the Government on the implementation of the recommendations made in the report. I hope that is helpful.
Mr Robin Walker (Worcester) (Con)
Like other Members, I have constituents and friends who have been profoundly affected by the scandal, through both hepatitis and HIV. I recognise that my right hon. Friend is working extremely hard to come up with a solution to move the conversation forward, but can he update the House on any conversations he has had with the Treasury on delivering compensation as swiftly as possible once it is available?
John Glen
Conversation about this is taking place all the time across Whitehall. That will continue at pace as we move towards the 20 May publication. My determination is to bring forward as substantive a response as possible on the compensation issue as soon as possible after that. Obviously, those conversations happen over time, but I undertake to update the House at the next opportunity when there is something substantive to say.
Nick Thomas-Symonds (Torfaen) (Lab)
In his second interim report, of 5 April 2023, Sir Brian Langstaff set out:
“I recommend that a compensation scheme should be set up now and it should begin work this year.”
Now we are into the next year, 2024, and the scheme has not been set up. We have no timetable from the Government on when work will begin. The Minister does not need to wait until 20 May for the final report. Can the Minister tell the victims’ groups, who have waited for so long, whether he has persuaded the Chancellor to include the funding for the scheme in next week’s Budget, and when will the first substantive payments be made?
John Glen
I think the right hon. Gentleman will understand that I cannot pre-announce aspects of the Budget, but his general point about urgency is one that I hear, as I said to him when I met him before the February recess. As I also explained, Report stage in this place on 4 December left us with legislation that was not fit for purpose, which is why further changes need to be made. Those changes are being made as urgently as possible.
On Monday of this week, the Government committed that on Report in the other place, we will bring forward the appropriate amendment to enable that arm’s length body to be created with the legal functions and UK-wide remit that is necessary. I have been working closely with Earl Howe, meeting with him as the Bill has gone through the other place. However, I cannot announce aspects of the Budget in any form—I hope the right hon. Gentleman will forgive me.
Virginia Crosbie (Ynys Môn) (Con)
The Minister for the Cabinet Office and Paymaster General (John Glen)
The Prime Minister has been clear that he will lead a Government of
“integrity, professionalism and accountability at every level.”
He is delivering on that promise. I met Sir Laurie Magnus, the independent adviser on Ministers’ interests, in November.
Munira Wilson
A survey published just this week by the Institute for Government revealed that two thirds of the public do not believe that the Government behave according to high ethical standards. I do not think anyone in the House will be surprised by that, given the behaviour we have seen from some—particularly former—Ministers over the past five years. Even in the last few weeks, questions have been raised about potential breaches of the ministerial code by the Business Secretary, and we have seen failure rewarded constantly with outrageous severance payments. Will the Minister finally fully enshrine the ministerial code into law?
John Glen
That matter has been discussed. The Committee on Standards in Public Life did not recommend that in 2021, because it would afford significant authority to a body that is outwith accountability to the House.
Sir Desmond Swayne (New Forest West) (Con)
Mr Pat McFadden (Wolverhampton South East) (Lab)
As the Minister has seen, many questions have been asked today on the infected blood scandal. Will he confirm that it is no part of the Government’s decision-making process on the timescale of granting compensation payments to create the fiscal headroom needed for the much anticipated pre-election tax cuts in next week’s Budget?
The Minister for the Cabinet Office and Paymaster General (John Glen)
I can confirm that is not the case.
Mr McFadden
Baroness Mone and her husband made a £60 million profit on a £200 million contract for personal protective equipment, much of which the NHS deemed unusable. The couple, reportedly, have had £75 million of assets frozen, but they also have a horse running in Britain’s favourite horserace, the grand national. That is not racing’s fault, but would it not be a grand national disgrace if the owners were able to walk away with winnings while taxpayers are still waiting to get their money back from being sold a mountain of unusable PPE?
Andrew Gwynne (Denton and Reddish) (Lab)
John Glen
I respectfully reject that characterisation. As the hon. Gentleman knows, the Government have spent £400 million of taxpayers’ money since October 2022. The arrangements for the distribution of further compensation payments are obviously being considered at this point, and, as I said during the extensive exchange that opened this questions session, that work is continuing apace, so that I can produce a comprehensive response from the Government as soon as possible.
Mick Whitley (Birkenhead) (Lab)
John Glen
I met several union leaders a few weeks ago. On 2 October, the Chancellor announced that the civil service would be capped at the levels that were current at that time, which would save up to £1 billion against the trajectory that was then in place. As of September 2023, there were 496,150 civil servants. It is an important Government responsibility to ensure that we have the right number of civil servants performing effectively and efficiently in public service, and we will continue to work on that.
Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)
What discussions has the Minister had with charities back home in Northern Ireland, such as Beyond The Battlefield and SSAFA, about improving mental health support for veterans who served in Northern Ireland during the troubles? I have extended this invitation in the past, and I extend it again now: will the Minister join me in visiting Portavogie to see the wonderful work of Beyond The Battlefield, which is conducting a project there? We really want to see him there.
Dame Diana Johnson (Kingston upon Hull North) (Lab)
Interim payments are, by their very nature, interim; they are paid before final payments. Perhaps the Minister might be able to help me to understand. He just said that works are going on at pace, so when will the interim payments, recommended by Sir Brian Langstaff in April 2023, to parents who lost children and children who lost parents be paid before the final payments are made?
John Glen
As soon as possible, and when the Government’s position is clear.
Tim Loughton (East Worthing and Shoreham) (Con)
On the efficiency of Government Departments, I am sure that Ministers want report by inspectorates that are the responsibility of their Department to be produced in a timely manner. Is the Minister aware that the now sacked chief inspector of borders and immigration has produced 15 reports, which have been sitting on the Home Secretary’s desk, in some cases for over a year? There is complete confusion about how they can be published in the absence of the inspector and his deputy. Will the Minister look into that, and give reassurances to the House that these reports will be published in a timely fashion?
John Glen
My hon. Friend raises a very important matter. I will look into it urgently and come back to him as soon as possible.
Alex Davies-Jones (Pontypridd) (Lab)
The experience of the last two years has taught us that energy security is now national security. The more we can generate our own renewables, the less reliant on tyrants we will be. Has the Secretary of State asked the National Security Council to report on the national and energy security implications of the Prime Minister’s decision last year to scale back his Government’s energy transition targets? If he has not, why not?
Christian Wakeford (Bury South) (Lab)
On the contaminated blood scandal, why have the Government not named the experts?
John Glen
We have given details of the appointment of Sir Jonathan Montgomery, and a number of other individuals are working on clinical and other matters. It is really important that we get on with this work, and we will report back on their conclusions as soon as we can.
Caroline Nokes (Romsey and Southampton North) (Con)
We know that the Cabinet Office is often focused on making sure that procurement contracts go to small and medium-sized enterprises, but can my hon. Friend tell me what work is being done to make sure that female-led businesses get a chance at those contracts?
Infected Blood Inquiry
John Glen Excerpts(2 months, 2 weeks ago)
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The Minister for the Cabinet Office and Paymaster General (John Glen)
On 18 December 2023, I updated the House that the Government would appoint a group of clinical, legal and social care experts to advise the Cabinet Office on detailed technical considerations of responding to the infected blood inquiry’s recommendations on compensation.
Further to my December update, I am today pleased to announce the appointment of Professor Sir Jonathan Montgomery as chair of this expert group. Sir Jonathan will lead the expert group to provide me, the responsible Minister for the Government response to the infected blood inquiry, with technical advice on compensation.
Both my right hon. friend Earl Howe GBE and I have met separately with Sir Jonathan to discuss the technical advice the expert group will provide and are reassured that the group is working as quickly as possible to advise the Government in responding to the inquiry’s recommendations following the publication of the final report.
Sir Jonathan is an experienced healthcare law scholar who has played a leading role in UK public bioethics for many years, having previously chaired the Human Genetics Commission (2009-12), the Nuffield Council on Bioethics (2012-17) and the Health Research Authority (2012-19). Sir Jonathan is currently the chair of the Oxford University Hospitals NHS Foundation Trust and professor of healthcare law at University College London. Sir Jonathan received a knighthood in 2019 for his services to bioethics and healthcare law.
Ensuring the victims of the infected blood scandal receive the justice and recognition they deserve remains my top priority and I look forward to working with Sir Jonathan and the expert advisory group to ensure that the Government have the relevant expertise to make informed choices in responding to the inquiry’s recommendations on compensation.
[HCWS254]
Cabinet Office
John Glen Excerpts(2 months, 3 weeks ago)
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Jessica Morden (Newport East) (Lab)
John Glen
As I have said, if the House of Commons has indicated its will by the amendment, that piece of legislation moves to the House of Lords and the Government will respond at that point. That is the week after next. That is the process of the House. I have recognised the need to ensure that we get the clinical, legal and care experts in place. They are in place, and they are working on some of the complex issues the hon. Lady alludes to. The psychological support is now in place, but I am doing everything I can in every dimension of this complicated problem to deliver as quickly as I can.
[Official Report, 18 January 2024, Vol. 743, c. 1015.]
Letter of correction from the Minister for the Cabinet Office and Paymaster General:
An error has been identified in my response to the hon. Member for Newport East (Jessica Morden) in Topical Questions. The correct response should have been:
John Glen
As I have said, if the House of Commons has indicated its will by the amendment, that piece of legislation moves to the House of Lords and the Government will respond at that point. That is the week after next. That is the process of the House. I have recognised the need to ensure that we get the clinical, legal and care experts in place. They are in place, and they are working on some of the complex issues the hon. Lady alludes to. The psychological support will be in place by summer 2024, but I am doing everything I can in every dimension of this complicated problem to deliver as quickly as I can.
Oral Answers to Questions
John Glen Excerpts(3 months, 1 week ago)
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Samantha Dixon (City of Chester) (Lab)
The Minister for the Cabinet Office and Paymaster General (John Glen)
As I set out on 18 December, I am pleased with the progress that we have made in appointing an expert group to assist on technical detailed considerations of those recommendations. It was announced yesterday that the final report will be published on 20 May, and the Government are committed to updating Parliament on the next steps within 25 sitting days of publication.
Samantha Dixon
The publication of the final report into the infected blood scandal has yet again been delayed, causing dismay for hundreds of people, including some of my Chester constituents, who are still waiting for justice. In this matter, time is precious. The Government committed to introducing primary legislation early in the new year to enable the establishment of the compensation scheme. Given that the House has shown its majority support, will the Minister confirm that the Government will now get on with it?
John Glen
I take the will of the House very seriously. That vote was on 4 December as part of the Victims and Prisoners Bill, which will now be working through its next stage in the other place the week after next. I have been working with colleagues across Government to ensure that we are able to respond appropriately at that time.
Sir Peter Bottomley (Worthing West) (Con)
The House understands that it is the Minister’s Department that has to co-ordinate government, and that is not an easy thing to do. Does he understand that Sir Robert Francis and Sir Brian Langstaff have made it absolutely clear that the final report will say nothing more about compensation? It is not just the victims of the infected blood scandal who matter; so do the families of those who have already died—they are dying as well. May I say, on behalf of the all-party parliamentary group on haemophilia and contaminated blood—I am sure that the right hon. Member for Kingston upon Hull North (Dame Diana Johnson) would say the same—that 25 days after the report is published in May is too long to wait? People want certainty and need support.
John Glen
I thank my hon. Friend for his empathy with the complexity of delivering this. I recognise the urgency, of course. That is why, over the recess, I had several meetings with officials. We are moving forward with the appointment of the clinical, legal and care experts. However, I recognise that his focus and that of colleagues across the House is on the speed of delivery of payments. Obviously, we made those interim payments further to the first interim report recommendations in October 2022. I will continue to have meetings with colleagues to move this forward as quickly as I can.
Chris Stephens (Glasgow South West) (SNP)
The Minister for the Cabinet Office and Paymaster General (John Glen)
The next stage of the Victims and Prisoners Bill in the other place will be the week after next, and that is where the Government will make clear their response to what the Commons has decided. As I said to my hon. Friend the Member for Worthing West (Sir Peter Bottomley) a few moments ago, the issue of further interim payments will need to be considered in the round as the Government consider the recommendations of the second interim report. We are very aware of the urgency of this. However, as I am sure the hon. Gentleman will understand, there is a lot of complexity with respect to the different cohorts and we are working on those as rapidly as we can with the experts now in place.
Duncan Baker (North Norfolk) (Con)
Ending veteran homelessness and rough sleeping has been an absolute passion of the veterans Minister. Can he give us an update on how this is faring after the festive period?
Jessica Morden (Newport East) (Lab)
John Glen
As I have said, if the House of Commons has indicated its will by the amendment, that piece of legislation moves to the House of Lords and the Government will respond at that point. That is the week after next. That is the process of the House. I have recognised the need to ensure that we get the clinical, legal and care experts in place. They are in place, and they are working on some of the complex issues the hon. Lady alludes to. The psychological support is now in place, but I am doing everything I can in every dimension of this complicated problem to deliver as quickly as I can.
Florence Eshalomi (Vauxhall) (Lab/Co-op)
I have just listened to the Minister’s response, and I appreciate that the situation is complex, but people are dying. My constituent contacted me earlier this week. He has renal failure and cirrhosis of the liver. He wrote asking for
“faster resolution to the infected blood scandal compensation before it is too late for myself and others to see full and final resolution”.
It might be too late for my constituent—he cannot wait two more weeks—but can the Minister outline how many people have received interim payments and how many are still outstanding?
John Glen
A large number of payments were made available quickly in the last quarter of 2022. I fully recognise the absolute tragedy that this is. Every death is a tragedy. This is the biggest scandal in the NHS’s history. I recognise and acknowledge that. The victims’ organisations said that there were 141 deaths last year, and I am doing everything I can to find solutions as quickly as possible.
Dame Meg Hillier (Hackney South and Shoreditch) (Lab/Co-op)
Arm’s length bodies across Government spend more than £200 billion a year, and my Committee has been looking at that issue. The Government launched the public bodies review programme as part of their latest drive to look at quangos, but there is little in the public domain. Will the Minister commit to publishing the review of individual quangos as it goes through? What will the final publication date be for the outcome of the review?
John Glen
In the spring statement in March 2022, the review of public bodies was announced, as the hon. Lady knows. That will give us significant savings. There are 125 arm’s length body reviews, covering 90% of arm’s length body expenditure. Honestly, I am not familiar with the exact protocols around publication, but I am happy to look into it, and I will come back to her.
Andrew Bridgen (North West Leicestershire) (Ind)
In 2012, the Cabinet Office rejected my request that it fund the forensic investigation into the Horizon IT system by Second Sight. Indeed, the Cabinet Office insisted that the Post Office pay for its own investigation, which ultimately allowed the Post Office to try to control and coerce the lead investigator Ron Warmington, thus delaying justice for the sub-postmasters. Will the Minister look into the reasoning behind this historic decision and write to me about it, please?
Infected Blood Inquiry: Government Response
John Glen Excerpts(4 months, 1 week ago)
Commons ChamberRead Full debate Read Hansard Text Watch Debate Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
The Minister for the Cabinet Office and Paymaster General (John Glen)
With permission, I would like to make a statement on the Government’s response to the infected blood inquiry. I made clear my intention to do so at Cabinet Office questions on 23 November, and the Minister of State at the Ministry of Justice, my right hon. Friend the Member for Charnwood (Edward Argar), reiterated this on the Floor of the House on 4 December.
First, and most importantly, the suffering of the victims must be recognised. The distress and trauma that each individual has faced as a result of this tragedy is unimaginable, and the Government understand that no measures can fully compensate for the losses and hardships that they have suffered. The priority here must be to ensure that victims get the justice they deserve.
With the interim compensation payments issued last October, the Government recognised the immediate and urgent needs of those most severely impacted. This was the start of the process, not the end. The Government have accepted the moral case for compensation, and I am fully committed to ensuring that we bring this matter to its long-awaited conclusion.
In April 2023, the Government welcomed the publication of the infected blood inquiry’s second interim report, which set out a detailed framework for compensation for both those infected and those affected by infected blood, and it is a significant step towards the culmination of the inquiry’s deeply important work.
The inquiry has taken a wide-ranging and innovative approach to compensation, and I was pleased to see that the Government’s commissioning of Sir Robert Francis KC’s compensation study assisted in the inquiry’s work. It is now a year on from the Government’s acceptance of the moral case for compensation, and I understand the calls for urgency. I know that, from many of those infected and affected, there is anger and frustration with the Government’s response so far.
The inquiry’s recommendations are not without complexity, and it would be inappropriate for the Government to prejudge the findings of the final report. For these reasons, the Government are not yet in a position to share any final decisions on compensation. However, Members on both sides of the House have made it clear that we must do right by the victims, and the Government recognise this. I am personally committed to making sure that we do that.
I also give enormous credit to the right hon. Member for Kingston upon Hull North (Dame Diana Johnson) on her continuing hard work to advocate for the victims of the infected blood scandal. The Government recognise the strength of feeling across the House on this matter and the importance of what the amendment seeks to achieve.
The Government are working through the implications of the amendment. Cabinet Office officials worked hard under my predecessor, my right hon. Friend the Member for Horsham (Jeremy Quin), to develop this policy, and we are reviewing this work in the light of the amendment made two weeks ago today.
I am also pleased to provide the House with an update on the wider progress we have made in this area, and on the steps we are taking to address the concerns of this House. First, I announce that the Department of Health and Social Care will fully implement a bespoke psychological service for people infected and affected by infected blood products, delivered by NHS England. Our intention is for this service to go live in early summer 2024. We recognise the harrowing impacts of the infected blood scandal and the psychological impact this has had on many infected and affected individuals. This announcement is an important step for victims in England. The service will provide tailored support to meet the unique needs of infected and affected individuals.
The Government are also urgently appointing clinical, legal and social care experts to advise the Cabinet Office on detailed technical considerations early in the new year, which will ensure that the Government have the relevant expertise to make informed choices in responding to the inquiry’s recommendations on compensation.
Finally, I reiterate the commitment that the Government will seek to provide an update to Parliament on next steps through an oral statement within 25 sitting days of the inquiry’s final report being published. As my predecessor made clear both to this House and to the inquiry, there are a number of technical issues that must be considered as they will have a significant impact on public finances. It is important that any decisions on compensation funding are taken carefully, and the House should expect the Government to work through the associated costs to the public sector while, at all times, considering the needs of the community and the far-reaching impact that this scandal has had on their lives.
The victims of the infected blood scandal deserve justice and recognition. Their voice must be heard, and it is our duty to honour not only those still living and campaigning but those who have passed without recognition. This is my highest priority, and I will continue to progress this work with all the urgency it deserves. I commend this statement to the House.
Nick Thomas-Symonds (Torfaen) (Lab)
I welcome the fact that this statement has been made, to which the Minister of State, Ministry of Justice committed at the Dispatch Box earlier this month. I am also grateful to the Minister for the Cabinet Office and Paymaster General for advance sight of his statement today.
The amendment to the Victims and Prisoners Bill passed by this House makes the will of this House, on a binding and cross-party basis, absolutely clear. I applaud the work of my right hon. Friend the Member for Kingston upon Hull North (Dame Diana Johnson), the campaigning and advocacy organisations, the all-party group on haemophilia and contaminated blood, the journalist Caroline Wheeler and all who have worked tirelessly to bring us to this point. I, too, pay tribute to the bravery of the victims of this scandal, who, over decades, have suffered for far too long.
The Government have repeatedly accepted the moral case for compensation, as indeed the Minister did today. On Report, the Minister of State in the MOJ was also definitive in committing that the Government will
“put in place the necessary legislative framework and timescales for a delivery body for compensation for the victims of infected blood to be established, in line with the overall objectives set out”—[Official Report, 4 December 2023; Vol. 742, c. 136-37.]
in the amendment tabled by my right hon. Friend. I say to the Minister: there is no need to wait for the Bill to come back or for the inquiry to publish its final report before making the required urgent progress on setting up the basis for the compensation scheme. The Government should make good on the spirit of that commitment and recognise the will of the House, not least because a commitment to act was also given in the King’s Speech.
I am not suggesting for a moment that this is not a complex matter. However, as my right hon. Friend the shadow Chancellor and I have repeatedly made clear, we are open to working on a cross-party basis to shape a compensation scheme that can deliver justice urgently. The Government should now establish an arm’s length body to deliver compensation payments, which will allow some of the preparatory work to be done while we wait for those final recommendations. As with any arm’s length body, the Government will be responsible for appointing the chair and the members, and setting the budget and the rules for the scheme and its administration, including on decision making and accountability. I am also conscious that compensation will apply to those infected in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland and that there is important work to do with devolved Governments. Of course, I welcome what the Minister said in his statement about psychological support, but will he please tell us why there is a need to wait until the summer of next year for it to go live, given how long this matter has been going on?
I would be grateful if the Minister would also address the following questions. Why can the Government not commit to beginning the steps in January, not just to take the technical advice that he has referred to, but to bring forward primary legislation early in the new year to enable the establishment of the compensation scheme, given that this House has shown its support for that? Will he also commit to continuing to work closely with all the victims’ groups in the future, so that their voice is heard throughout the establishment of the compensation scheme? To the extent that he has announced a timetable today, when might people receive the final compensation? This is so pressing because, on average, one person dies every four days as a result of this scandal. Will he also give a commitment that the Government will act on each and every recommendation in the inquiry’s report? He mentioned a statement 25 working days after the publication of that report, but he did not give a timetable for action on those recommendations—will he give that to the House in his response? Finally, will he confirm what preparatory work is being done by the Treasury? Will he commit to being as transparent as possible about that process? The Government have admitted both the case for compensation and the need for urgency. This House has shown strong cross-party support for action. It now falls to Ministers to deliver urgently.
John Glen
I thank the right hon. Gentleman for his constructive approach. There is consensus across the House that this urgent matter needs to be addressed as quickly as possible. As I said at Cabinet Office questions during my second week in post, this is the most urgent priority that I will face, whatever happens in this office, and I take my responsibility to bring forward the scheme very seriously. However, we need to examine carefully the amendment that was passed two weeks ago and how it interacts with work that is under way. I am doing everything I can to bring that work forward. Second Reading of the Victims and Prisoners Bill will happen today in the other place and the process that will follow from that will be clear in the new year.
The right hon. Gentleman asked a number of specific questions. I want to deliver psychological support as quickly as possible, working closely with NHS England on provision of support and allowing people to have direct access to it. I will do everything I can to bring that forward by June, at the latest, I hope. A few months ago, I made an announcement about clinical, legal and social care advisers. Contact has been made with individuals and there will be ongoing conversations to get those people in place as early as possible, so as much work as possible can be done along the lines I have set out.
The right hon. Gentleman asked about the 18 recommendations and when people will receive further clarification on Government compensation. Those are substantive matters that will be attended to as quickly as possible, in line with what I have already said. On 17 January, the inquiry will issue a notification about when that report is expected, which will give clarity on the timetable to which we are working. I assure the House that we are doing everything we can to work across relevant Departments, including the Treasury, to ensure everything is delivered as quickly as possible.
Sir Peter Bottomley (Worthing West) (Con)
Mr Deputy Speaker, I hope that you realise that after I have asked my question, and the SNP spokesperson, the hon. Member for North Ayrshire and Arran (Patricia Gibson), and another Conservative Member have asked their questions, the right hon. Member for Kingston upon Hull North (Dame Diana Johnson) will be the definitive person to put to Government what needs to be done.
I say to the Minister and, through him, to our right hon. Friend the Member for Horsham (Jeremy Quin), the Minister’s predecessor, that we are not doing enough, fast enough. How many months have passed since Sir Robert Francis produced his report? I hope the Minister will confirm that it is about 20 months. How many months have passed since Sir Brian Langstaff produced his final recommendations on compensation? It is about eight months. Those are the relevant issues.
The fact that the Government will act 25 working days after Sir Brian’s final report comes out next year does not deal with the issue of what the affected and infected need and should get now. If it is a question of money, how much and the cashflow for the Government, they should say so now. There is nothing that can be said on compensation 25 days after the report comes out that could not be said now, so please will the Minister say it?
John Glen
I thank my hon. Friend for his questions. I could not agree with him more about the level of urgency that is attached to the Government’s response. He is right about the publication dates; I think the whole House is aware of that. In the past five weeks, I have taken concrete steps, building on the work of my predecessor, to take the actions necessary to make those decisions as quickly as possible along the timescale I have set out. I cannot reiterate enough the Government’s commitment to dealing with the issue as quickly as possible, and I am doing all I can to gain consensus across Government to move things forward as quickly as possible.
Patricia Gibson (North Ayrshire and Arran) (SNP)
Most of what we have heard today is not new. All we are hearing from this Government are the same old delays, while those affected continue to feel let down and failed. The Government have been working at a snail’s pace on the issue and were shamed when they voted against a new compensation body for those impacted by the scandal. Those affected and the bereaved will not forgive them for that callous act and the ongoing delays, and today they will have those feelings all over again at this non-statement.
On 5 April, Sir Brian Langstaff published his final recommendations relating to compensation. Crucially, he recommended that interim payments be made to bereaved parents and children in respect of deaths as yet unrecognised. To date, the Government have not responded in practical terms to any of those recommendations. The Government’s position continues to be to wait for the full report expected next spring before considering whether to extend the compensation. That heaps insult upon injury to those affected and their families, as every four days another victim of this scandal dies. Time is of the essence for those affected. To delay this full compensation is to stand against justice and all that is morally and ethically right. To delay compensation to those who are literally running out of time is cruel and unnecessary. This Government need to rethink and listen to the will of this House, as expressed on 4 December in the face of shameful opposition from those on the Government Benches, and deliver justice and full compensation.
Where is the urgency? The Minister has used the words “urgency” and “urgent” several times today, but it does not feel to those who are affected that there is any urgency from the Government to address the great wrongs and losses that they have suffered.
Today, given the expressed will of this House, we were hoping for a timeline from the Government for when a full compensation body would be established and operational. Again, sadly, all we have is delay and obfuscation. Does the Minister feel no shame in coming here today to give a statement that says nothing?
John Glen
I do not accept that characterisation of what I have said today, as I have made a number of specific announcements on the progress that is being made. Neither do I accept the characterisation of the Government’s position as a callous act. This Government launched a public inquiry, and last year we made interim payments. I accept that a substantive response cannot happen soon enough, but I am doing everything I can, working with colleagues across Government, to look at the best way of delivering as quickly as possible, and I will continue to do so.
Steve Brine (Winchester) (Con)
I thank the Minister for what is now our traditional end-of-term statement on this subject, but, to be clear, this is one festive tradition that we need to see the back of, because people are dying without seeing justice. May I return the Paymaster General to a line in his statement where he talked about “clinical, legal and social care experts” to advise him on detailed technical considerations in the new year? Can he clarify when in the new year, because, clearly, that could cover 12 months of 2024. Moreover, further to the points made by the shadow Minister, how much can the Government do now to pave the way for serious progress and payment when the Government and the Treasury are in the position to move?
John Glen
I thank my hon. Friend for his question. I have been in discussions on the appointment of clinical, legal and social care experts since my first week in office in November. We have identified individuals, and communicated with them last week. We want to get them on board with this work in the early days of the new year, so that that work can happen as quickly as possible. I wanted to avoid a situation where people were going out to compete for roles. What we want is the best people across those specialisms so that this work can make urgent progress, aligned with our intention to respond substantively later in the year.
Dame Diana Johnson (Kingston upon Hull North) (Lab)
In April 2023, Sir Brian Langstaff said:
“I recommend that a compensation scheme should be set up now and it should begin work this year.”
What exactly does the Minister not understand in that statement? This statement today will cause huge anguish to victims of the 50-year-old scandal and, in noting that the Prime Minister whipped Conservative Members to vote down the new clause on 4 December, fuel their suspicion that the Government are still playing for time, even though they accept the moral case. This therefore is adding one final insult to injury. Will the Minister tell us why the Prime Minister can find what the Deputy Prime Minister said yesterday is unlimited funding for the Rwanda policy, but is still pushing back, after a five-year public inquiry, against compensation—and even interim compensation for the groups that have never received anything—for people who have suffered so much for so long after what the state did to them?
John Glen
I recognise the right hon. Lady’s frustration and disappointment with where we have got to. The work that she has done, and the work that was expressed in the amendment, is urgently being examined by me and my officials.
John Glen
I recognise Sir Brian’s recommendations, and I have done what I can to move us to a place where we meet the expectations as quickly as possible in the new year. I said to the right hon. Lady when I met her and my hon. Friend the Member for Worthing West (Sir Peter Bottomley) that my officials were engaged in looking at the options for the delivery vehicle. I must now examine how that operates with the legislative vehicle, which has been amended by the House. I will do everything that I can to update the House as quickly as I can.
Kevin Foster (Torbay) (Con)
I have some sympathy for the Minister, who I suspect might go slightly further in his comments if he had complete free rein at the Dispatch Box. I have experience of dealing with the Windrush compensation scheme, which similarly looked back decades at the impact on individuals, with records often incomplete and people having moved many times, and it brought home the complexity of this type of compensation scheme, even when it gets to work. What is his timeline for people to start dealing with these cases, because that will be the first step in getting compensation finally paid to people who, as we have touched on, we are losing literally every day?
John Glen
That is what the experts will do—the calibration of tariffs and allocation of compensation, as per the excellent work that has been done by the inquiries. This is urgent, and work will begin in the new year on that aspect. As I said, on the legislative vehicle to establish the necessary mechanisms, that process is under way as well.
Stephen Doughty (Cardiff South and Penarth) (Lab/Co-op)
The Minister has referred many times to urgency. I think that he is a good man, and I know that he will be trying to do his best, but I had a message this afternoon from the organisation Factor 8, which said:
“Today, one of our members has died. He was infected with Hepatitis C through infected Factor VIII blood products. Two weeks ago, he was diagnosed with cancer (caused by his Hepatitis C) and now has died without seeing justice. These stories are sadly familiar within our community.”
That is the reality for so many people who have been affected, including my own constituents; I spoke to them years ago and was convinced of their case for justice. Who else is holding this up elsewhere in the Government?
John Glen
The hon. Gentleman makes the right point, which we have all heard from our constituents; my constituents have made representations along those lines, too. All I can say is that there is nothing stopping me moving this forward. I am doing everything that I can to put in place the legislative mechanisms to set up the process and ensure that, when the Government respond, the response is as comprehensive as it can be. I acknowledge the distress caused to so many people. I will do everything that I can to bring this forward as quickly as I can.
Caroline Nokes (Romsey and Southampton North) (Con)
Two weeks ago, I met a gentleman called Barry. Barry had been a constituent of a former Member of this place, Alistair Burt, in North East Bedfordshire. Barry spoke to me of how hard Alistair had worked, alongside the right hon. Member for Kingston upon Hull North (Dame Diana Johnson), but of course Alistair Burt left this place before we ever found a resolution to the scandal. Can I ask my right hon. Friend, who I believe is going to do his best, whether we will see compensation before any more of us leave this place?
John Glen
My right hon. Friend is ingenious in her question, but I go back to what I said: I will do everything I can to put in place all the elements to allow us to respond substantively. We will know the date of the report, I believe, on 17 January, so we will have a definitive timetable in the new year. I recognise that she, Alistair Burt and many others across the House have campaigned on this issue for many years and I am determined to bring it to the conclusion that the House expects.
Barbara Keeley (Worsley and Eccles South) (Lab)
Like many hon. Members present, I have a number of constituents who were infected with HIV or hepatitis C through the scandal and several have lost family members. I want to echo what some of them are feeling. One of my constituents described her parent’s diagnosis with HIV due to infected blood as
“a catalogue of soul destroying, humiliating neglect and ultimately alienating experiences”
and told me that it is now 30 years since her parent died,
“and the intense sense of loss and pain remains profound and is felt every single day.”
People infected and affected need tangible action now to help to alleviate that suffering. The question the Minister has to answer is when he will establish a full compensation body and when that will become operational.
John Glen
I am obviously going to have to repeat myself several times. I have set out clearly what is new today: the psychological support and the appointment of the necessary expert, in a matter of days, to take forward the work needed to get to the point where a comprehensive response can happen. We have committed to when the timetable will happen with respect to the final inquiry, and we are doing everything we can to reach that. While I recognise that that is a matter of three or four months further down the road, I am trying to make sure that, when the response comes, it is as comprehensive as it possibly can be, addressing all the dimensions of the misery that the hon. Lady movingly spoke about.
Martin Vickers (Cleethorpes) (Con)
When the House debated the amendment by the right hon. Member for Kingston upon Hull North (Dame Diana Johnson) a couple of weeks ago, I gave the Government the benefit of the doubt and abstained. If I could turn the clock back, based on what I have heard today I would now want to vote for that amendment. In a couple of weeks I have a constituent coming to see me who is a family member of one of the victims. I am afraid that if I showed her this statement, she would immediately point out things such as “summer 2024” and say, “That is just too long.” Can the Minister give me some assurance that, by the time I see that lady, there will be a little bit more certainty?
John Glen
I am grateful to my hon. Friend for his question and I will happily talk to him privately. I am sorry that he draws that conclusion from what I have said today. In the past 35 days I have done everything I can to move the scheme forward, and I wanted to make an oral statement before the House rose for the recess. I recognise that there is a lot more that could be said, but a lot more needs to be done before we get to that point. The reference to June is to do with the psychological support. The comprehensive response that the Government have committed to will come at a defined moment after the publication of the final report, the date of which we will clarify on 17 January—it will be some time after the report’s publication in March.
Margaret Greenwood (Wirral West) (Lab)
Thousands of people across the country have been affected by this scandal, and constituents who have been in touch with me describe their quest for justice as “upsetting”, “frustrating” and “depressing”. The Haemophilia Society said after the recent vote on the amendment to the Victims and Prisoners Bill that the Prime Minister “should be ashamed” that he had been forced to do the right thing. Does the Minister agree with that assessment, and will he apologise to those affected for the excessive delays in delivering compensation to victims?
John Glen
I reaffirm what I have said about my commitment to doing this as quickly as possible. Of course I regret the delays that have occurred over many years, and I want this to be brought to a conclusion as quickly as it can be. I think I neglected to answer the question from the right hon. Member for Torfaen (Nick Thomas-Symonds) about working with the various victims’ groups, of which there are a large number. I undertake to work with them to give them as much clarity as possible about the timetable and the work that I am undertaking.
Sir Julian Lewis (New Forest East) (Con)
Will the Government be making these payments within their own lifetime?
John Glen
I will give a comprehensive response along the timetable that I set out earlier.
Munira Wilson (Twickenham) (LD)
I pay tribute to the right hon. Member for Kingston upon Hull North (Dame Diana Johnson) and to the journalist Caroline Wheeler for their tireless campaigning on this issue.
I think we all know, as we have heard in a couple of questions from Conservative Members, why the Government have tried to delay compensation for so long; they are clearly hoping that it will be another Government’s problem. Perhaps the Minister can help me to understand. He says that he recognises the
“distress and trauma that each individual has faced,”
so why has it taken until today to announce a bespoke psychological service for people infected and affected by infected blood products, and why will it take until the summer to set up that service?
John Glen
The timing of the delivery of that service has been worked through with NHS England. I signed off the funding for it when I was Chief Secretary to the Treasury, and I am pleased that we can announce it today. I wish that it could have been sooner, but we are where we are, and I am pleased that we have made some progress. As with all these matters, of course I wish that I could accelerate it, but I have to work through all the deliberate steps needed to get the legislation in the right place to ensure that we can answer all the questions that so many people have—I recognise they have waited too long.
Anna Firth (Southend West) (Con)
I thank the Minister for his statement, particularly his assurance that the scheme will cover the infected and affected. I have mentioned my constituent David Corroyer in this Chamber before. He contacted hepatitis C in the ’70s—over 40 years ago—not from a transfusion but from donating blood, as a needle was used multiple times. He gave evidence to the inquiry but is still waiting to hear whether his particular circumstances will be covered. Can the Minister help him?
John Glen
I do not think that I can be expected to respond to individual cases here, but I have ensured that we have the right range of professional expertise—the very best available in this country—so that all those different cases of infected and affected, going off quite a range of experiences over a very long period, are properly interrogated as the details of the scheme are worked through.
Jessica Morden (Newport East) (Lab)
The Government had to make this statement after losing the vote two weeks ago, but there is little in it for families like the Smiths, who—please know this, Minister—finally saw hope in that vote. Campaigners have called for months and months for the preparatory work to be done. How long will victims now have to wait for what the House has asked for?
John Glen
As I said, it will be 25 sittings days after the publication of the report. That is when the Government’s comprehensive reply will be given.
Sir Mike Penning (Hemel Hempstead) (Con)
From 2006 to 2010, I was a shadow public health spokesman on the Opposition Benches. I committed a future Conservative Government to compensating. That was easy to do in opposition, but I accept that it is much more difficult in government. I trust the Minister, but I know that a lot of people are sceptical. We need to build back trust by saying that we will compensate both those infected and those affected, because those families need the money—they needed it years ago. It is not just this Government who have been slow; previous Governments have been slow, too. This needs to be resolved now. We need to rebuild trust; I am sorry, but it is lacking.
John Glen
My right hon. Friend makes wise and fair observations. This is complex, but it is urgent. My right hon. Friend the Member for Horsham (Jeremy Quin) did an enormous amount of work in getting us to today’s statement and to a lot more, which will come to fruition as quickly as possible. But my right hon. Friend the Member for Hemel Hempstead (Sir Mike Penning) is absolutely right: this scandal has lasted almost two generations, and I am determined to do everything I can to bring it to a conclusion.
Mike Kane (Wythenshawe and Sale East) (Lab)
The one tradition that has been upheld today is that of the Paymaster General coming to the House to make a statement that says nothing. He is the ninth Paymaster General since the inquiry was announced, and they keep saying nothing. In the past fortnight alone, he has had to face oral questions and has been defeated in the voting Lobbies, and the Prime Minister was asked a question about this on Wednesday, but we are still no nearer where we need to be. This is a cruel, cruel tease, is it not?
John Glen
I am sorry, but I do not accept that characterisation. What I would say is that, as I think the hon. Member appreciates, there are deeply complex matters in relation to how to allocate funds in the right way and create the most effective and reliable way to honour the recommendations and deal with this comprehensively, and I am doing everything I can to make sure that is achieved.
Richard Graham (Gloucester) (Con)
All of us here are unhappy about the fact that this has taken so long—the events actually took place up to 40 years ago—but, my right hon. Friend has reacted very strongly to the conversations I and others have had with him since the original statement. What he has outlined today about the final report, the bespoke psychological service and some technical issues, followed by serious announcements for those of our constituents who have suffered or had partners who have since died, and the personal commitment he has given to resolving this during 2024, are useful steps forward. I am grateful to him for making this statement before the Christmas recess.
John Glen
I am grateful to my hon. Friend for his words. The right hon. Member for Kingston upon Hull North said at business questions last Thursday that she did not want a written statement on the last day. I do not think that having an oral statement on the penultimate day is that much better, but I was determined to at least address that concern. What I will commit to is doing as much as I can to update the House as early as possible. That commitment is there, and obviously we have Cabinet Office questions early in the new year—the day after the announcement of the date—and I will, I hope, be able to say more then.
Clive Efford (Eltham) (Lab)
Sir Brian Langstaff came up with the recommendations that he did because he recognised that people were dying without getting justice. The amendment that was passed in this House two weeks ago, tabled by my right hon. Friend the Member for Kingston upon Hull North (Dame Diana Johnson), was Sir Brian’s recommendation word for word. The Minister has come to the Dispatch Box sounding as though he has only just started work on this, and that there was no work done by his nine predecessors. Has he met Sir Brian Langstaff, and what does Sir Brian Langstaff say to him about this constant delay in paying compensation?
John Glen
I have not met Sir Brian Langstaff yet, but of course I build on the work that my predecessors have done. As I indicated to the chairs of the all-party parliamentary group, as soon as I was in office I set up a meeting and I was aware of the ongoing work. I now have to work out the interaction of that amendment with the work that exists and bring forward a substantial response to it.
Chris Stephens (Glasgow South West) (SNP)
This is a disappointing statement in some ways, but let me give the Paymaster General an opportunity to build trust and confidence. It is unclear in his statement whether the Government accept the principle of an independent compensation body—an arm’s length body—so can he confirm that that is the case? Does he accept that, for the victims and their families, that is a prerequisite for building trust and confidence, and that they will not accept a Government Department involved in this scandal administering the compensation scheme?
John Glen
I am very cognisant of the 18 recommendations, and the sensitivity about the trust needed in the delivery mechanism, whatever that is. That is one of several considerations on which we need to reach the right conclusion. As my right hon. Friend the Member for Hemel Hempstead (Sir Mike Penning) said, I recognise that restoring trust is a serious matter on which we have to deliver.
Holly Lynch (Halifax) (Lab)
My constituent Eileen lost her father in the infected blood scandal. She told me earlier this year:
“This lack of transparency is causing great stress and anxiety to those of us at the heart of this NHS treatment disaster, who have already waited decades for our loss and suffering to be recognised.”
When the Government committed to a statement before Christmas, there was an expectation that there would have been further progress on the compensation scheme, and I do not think that was an unreasonable assumption. In the absence of that, what assurances can I give Eileen and her family that she will be recognised by this Government and that she will be compensated?
John Glen
Today we are putting in place the expertise needed to deal with the recommendations and look at the distribution for compensation. The Government are committed to responding after those 25 sitting days from the day that the report is published, the date of which will be known on 17 January. What I have announced today is a milestone on that journey, and we are in that last lap as we get towards the day when the Government will respond substantively.
Debbie Abrahams (Oldham East and Saddleworth) (Lab)
My constituent lost her brother and her sister-in-law, and her nephew was orphaned at a young age. Her mother, a pensioner, was left to raise her nephew. The family has not received a penny, and her nephew is in dire need of support. As everybody has said, this is already too late, so I urge the Minister to do everything in his power to ensure that something is done sooner rather than later. Will he explain exactly what new legislation he needs to bring in?
John Glen
Some ex gratia payments have been made since 1992, but I recognise that a large number of people have been excluded in different ways. The work that will be undertaken and the experts who have been appointed will be designed to ensure that the fairest settlement is made, taking full account of the inquiry’s recommendations. I cannot offer any specific assurances to the hon. Lady or her constituents, but I will be doing everything I can to bring this forward as quickly as I can.
Mike Amesbury (Weaver Vale) (Lab)
My constituent Michael, and so many more, will be disappointed by today’s statement. The Minister rightfully spoke about urgency, yet there is no timeline that reflects that urgency. People still do not know when the independent compensation body will be set up, or when they will ultimately get justice, and get that compensation to victims of this infected blood scandal.
John Glen
I recognise the hon. Gentleman’s disappointment and that of many in the House today. I shall reflect carefully on that, and do everything I can to do better next time. The steps we are taking, deliberately and carefully, to work through what is required to make a substantive response after the publication of that final report in March, are serious. I will be having meetings over Christmas and early in the new year, week by week, to work through what is required to deliver on the Government’s commitment.
Pete Wishart (Perth and North Perthshire) (SNP)
Speaking about last, I could sort of reference some of the things the Minister has referred to—well, if only I could. I only wish I was able to, and could talk of complex matters. The victims want to hear a clear timeline for when final compensation payments will be made. They want to see the urgency that the Minister talked about. There is a view that the Government are trying to kick this issue into the next Parliament, and that the Treasury is dragging its heels. The Minister has been asked this a couple of times: will he confirm that this issue will be all resolved before this Parliament is dissolved?
John Glen
That is my expectation. I am doing everything I can to bring this to a substantial conclusion after the publication of the final report. I am speaking to colleagues in many Departments, and working with officials across Government to get to the end point that I have set out several times this afternoon.
Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)
I thank the Paymaster General for his statement. I know he is an honourable gentleman, and his commitment will be to deliver what we wish to see. I also thank the right hon. Member for Kingston upon Hull North (Dame Diana Johnson) for the amendment that she tabled and won in this House by four votes. Those four votes were enough to show the mind of this Parliament, and where we want to be. During the last topical questions to the Cabinet Office, I asked the Paymaster General whether he had the figures for those who have sadly passed away this year, before compensation had been made available to them. The Minister committed to confirming those numbers so, two weeks later and with no reply, has he been able to access the figures I asked for, as we approach the rise of the House for Christmas 2023?
John Glen
I am not aware whether those figures are available yet, but I will ensure that the moment I leave this Chamber, I will do everything I can to get the hon. Member a response on that. If I cannot give them, I will let him know why.
Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans)
I thank the Minister for his statement and for responding to questions for 45 minutes.
Places for Growth Update
John Glen Excerpts(4 months, 2 weeks ago)
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The Minister for the Cabinet Office and Paymaster General (John Glen)
Today we have published the latest statistics relating to Places for Growth role relocations. This publication sets out a Places for Growth programme overview, relocation data collection and methodology and progress against programme targets 2020 to 2023. Relocations data is broken down by nation, region, location, grade and Department, cumulatively providing a holistic overview of the progress made in relocating Government roles to date.
Places for Growth is delivering on the Government’s commitment to relocate 22,000 roles from London and to have 50% of UK-based senior civil service roles based outside London by 2030. In addition to publishing the latest statistics, today I have announced I am bringing forward the delivery timeframe to relocate 22,000 roles from 2030 to 2027. This recognises the huge progress that has been made to date on this initiative; since 2020 the Places for Growth programme has worked with Government Departments to relocate more than 16,000 roles. This announcement will also launch the headquarter locations of the Department for Science, Innovation and Technology in Greater Manchester, the Department for Energy Security and Net Zero in Aberdeen in addition to Salford and the Department for Business and Trade in Darlington, as well as establishing Wrexham as a key location benefiting from additional roles from the Ministry of Justice and an increase in headcount from the Department for Work and Pensions.
Through Government role relocations and the strengthening of civil service communities across the UK, Places for Growth supports a number of other key Government priorities including modernisation and reform, levelling up and strengthening the union.
Places for Growth will establish a network of locations across the regions and nations of the UK, supporting a geographically diverse civil service that delivers excellent public services, contributes to local economic growth and is better connected to, and representative of, the communities we serve.
I am depositing a copy of the Places For Growth role relocations data 2020 to 2023 in the Libraries of both Houses of Parliament.
Following this statistical release, Places for Growth will publish Government role relocation data on gov.uk on a quarterly basis.
[HCWS114]
Cabinet Office
John Glen Excerpts(4 months, 2 weeks ago)
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Scott Benton (Blackpool South) (Ind)
What steps are the Government taking to reduce the number of civil servants in order to achieve value for money for the taxpayer?
John Glen
I am looking carefully at where we are with the plans for this year—obviously, there is a half-way point in that cycle—and at what policies we can put in place. At the beginning of October, the Chancellor announced a freeze on recruitment.
[Official Report, 23 November 2023, Vol. 741, c. 450.]
Letter of correction from the Minister for the Cabinet Office and Paymaster General, the right hon. Member for Salisbury (John Glen).
An error has been identified in my response to the hon. Member for Blackpool South (Scott Benton).
The correct response should have been: