Mid Staffordshire NHS Foundation Trust (Inquiry)

Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton Excerpts

Wednesday 6th February 2013 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister (Mr David Cameron)]

Today, Robert Francis has published the report of the public inquiry into the Mid Staffordshire NHS Foundation Trust.

Mr Speaker, I have a deep affection for our national health service. I will never forget all the things that doctors and nurses have done for my family in times of pain and difficulty. I love our NHS. I think it is a fantastic institution and a great organisation that says a huge amount about our country and who we are, and I always want to think the best about it. I have huge admiration for the doctors, nurses and other health workers who dedicate their lives to caring for our loved ones. Nevertheless, we do them and the whole reputation of our NHS a grave disservice if we fail to speak out when things go wrong.

What happened at Mid Staffordshire NHS Foundation Trust between 2005 and 2009 was not just wrong; it was truly dreadful. Hundreds of people suffered from the most appalling neglect and mistreatment. There were patients so desperate for water that they were drinking from dirty flower vases. Many were given the wrong medication, treated roughly or left to wet themselves and then lie in urine for days, and relatives were ignored or even reproached when they pointed out even the most basic things that could have saved their loved ones from horrific pain or even death. We can only begin to imagine the suffering endured by those whose trust in our health system was betrayed at their most vulnerable moment. That is why it is right to make this statement today.

An investigation by the Healthcare Commission in 2009, a first independent inquiry by Robert Francis in February 2010 and, long before that, the testimony of bereaved relatives, such as Julie Bailey, and the Cure the NHS campaign all laid bare the most despicable catalogue of clinical and management failures at the trust. Even after those reports, however, important questions remained unanswered. How were these appalling events allowed to happen and to continue for so long? Why were so many bereaved families and whistleblowers who spoke out ignored for so long? Could something like this ever happen again? These are basic questions about wider failures in the system, not just at the hospital, but right across the NHS, including its regulators and the Department of Health.

That is why the families called for this public inquiry and why the Government granted one. I am sure the whole House will want to join me in expressing our thanks to Robert Francis and his entire team for their work over the past three years. The inquiry finds that the appalling suffering at the Mid Staffordshire hospital was primarily caused by a “serious failure” on the part of the trust board, which failed to listen to patients and staff and failed to tackle what Robert Francis calls

“an insidious negative culture involving a tolerance of poor standards and a disengagement from managerial and leadership responsibilities.”

The inquiry finds, however, that the failure went far wider. The primary care trust assumed others were taking responsibility and so made little attempt to collect proper information on the quality of care. The strategic health authority was

“far too remote from the patients it was there to serve, and it failed to be sufficiently sensitive to signs that patients might be at risk.”

Regulators, including Monitor and the then Healthcare Commission, failed to protect patients from substandard care. Too many doctors “kept their heads down” instead of speaking out when things were wrong. The Royal College of Nursing was

“ineffective both as a professional representative organisation and as a trade union”

and the Department of Health was too remote from the reality of the services that it oversees.

The way Robert Francis chronicles the evidence of systemic failure means that we cannot say with confidence that failings of care are limited to one hospital, but let us also be clear about what the report does not say. Francis does not blame any specific policy, he does not blame the last Secretary of State for Health and he says that we should not seek scapegoats.

Looking beyond the specific failures that Francis catalogues so clearly, we can identify in the report three fundamental problems with the culture of our NHS. The first is a focus on finance and figures at the expense of patient care—he says that explicitly—underpinned by a preoccupation with a narrow set of top-down targets pursued, in the case of Mid Staffordshire, to the exclusion of patient safety or listening to what patients, relatives, and indeed many staff members, were saying. Secondly, there was an attitude that patient care was always someone else’s problem. In short, no one was accountable. Thirdly, he talks about defensiveness and complacency. He finds that, instead of facing up to and acting on data that should have implied cause for concern, all too often there is a culture of only explaining the positives rather than any critical analysis. Put simply, managers were suppressing inconvenient facts in favour of looking for comfort in positive information. This is one of the most disturbing findings. It is bad enough that terrible things happened at that hospital, but what the inquiry is telling us is that there was a manifest failure to act on the data that were available, not just at the hospital but more widely. As Francis says:

“In the end, the truth was uncovered…mainly because of the persistent complaints made by a…determined group of patients and those close to them.”

The anger of the families is completely understandable. Every hon. Member in this House would be angry—they would be furious—if their mother, father or loved ones were treated in this way, and rightly so.

The previous Government commissioned the first report from Robert Francis. When he saw that report, the former Secretary of State—now the shadow Health Secretary, the right hon. Member for Leigh (Andy Burnham)—was right to apologise for what went wrong. This public inquiry not only repeats earlier findings, but shows wider systemic failings, so I would like to go further as Prime Minister and apologise to the families of all those who have suffered for the way the system allowed this horrific abuse to go unchecked and unchallenged for so long. On behalf of the Government—and, indeed, our country—I am truly sorry.

Since the problems at the Mid Staffordshire hospital first came to light, a number of important steps have been taken. The previous Government set up the National Quality Board and the quality accounts system. This Government have put compassion ahead of process-driven bureaucratic targets and put quality of care on a par with quality of treatment. We have set this out explicitly in the mandate to the NHS Commissioning Board, together with a new vision for compassionate nursing. We have introduced a tough new programme for tracking and eliminating falls, pressure sores and hospital infections, and we have demanded nursing rounds, every hour, in every ward of every hospital, but it is clear that we need to do more. We will study every one of the 290 recommendations in today’s report and we will respond in detail next month, but the recommendations include three core areas—patient care, accountability and defeating complacency—on which I believe we should make more immediate progress. Let me say a word about each.

First, let me address how we put patient care ahead of finances. Today, when a hospital fails financially, its chair can be dismissed and the board can be suspended, but failures in care rarely carry such consequences. That is not right, so we will create a single failure regime, where the suspension of the board can be triggered by failures in care as well as failures in finance, and we will put the voice of patients and staff at the heart of the way in which hospitals go about their work. In Mid Staffordshire, as far back as 2006, there was a staff survey in which only around a quarter of staff said they would actually want one of their own relatives to use the hospital that they worked in. Over the following two years, bereaved relatives and campaigners produced case after dreadful case and campaign after chilling campaign, but these voices and these horrific cases were ignored. Indeed, the hospital was upgraded to foundation trust status during this period. We need the words of patients and front-line staff to ring through the boardrooms of our hospitals and, frankly, right beyond, to the regulators and the Department of Health itself.

So from this year, every patient, every carer and every member of staff will be given the opportunity to say whether they would recommend treatment in their hospital to their friends or family. This will be published and the board will be held to account for its response. Put simply, where a significant proportion of patients or staff raise serious concerns about what is happening in a hospital, immediate inspection will result and suspension of the hospital board may well follow. Quality of care means not accepting that bed sores and hospital infections are somehow occupational hazards—that a little bit of these things is somehow okay. It is not okay; they are unacceptable—full stop, end of story. That is what zero harm—the jargon for this—means. I have therefore asked Don Berwick, who has advised President Obama on this issue, to make zero harm a reality in our NHS.

Francis makes other recommendations. Today it is possible to give hands-on care in a hospital with no training at all. Francis says this is wrong and I agree. There are some simple but quite profound things that need to happen in our NHS and in our hospitals. Nurses should be hired and promoted on the basis of having compassion as a vocation, not just academic qualifications. We need a style of leadership from senior nurses that means that poor practice is not tolerated and is driven off the wards. Another issue is whether pay should be linked to quality of care rather than just to time served at a hospital. I favour this approach.

Secondly, on accountability and transparency, the first Francis report set out very clearly what happened within Stafford hospital, and it should have led to those responsible being brought to book by the board, by the regulators, by the professional bodies and by the courts. But that did not happen. Most people will want to know why on earth not. We expect hospitals to take disciplinary action against staff who abuse their patients. We expect the professional bodies—the professional regulators—to strike off doctors and nurses who seriously breach their professional codes. And, yes, we expect the justice system to prosecute those suspected of criminal acts, whether they take place in a hospital or anywhere else. But in Stafford those expectations were badly let down. The system failed, and that is one of the main reasons we badly needed this public inquiry.

Now that the recommendations about systemic failure are public, the regulatory bodies in particular are going to have some difficult questions to answer. The Nursing and Midwifery Council and the General Medical Council need to explain why, so far, no one has been struck off. The Secretary of State for Health has today invited them to explain what steps they will take to strengthen their systems of accountability in the light of this report, and we are going to ask the Law Commission to advise on sweeping away the Nursing and Midwifery Council’s outdated and inflexible decision-making processes.

The Health and Safety Executive also needs to explain its decisions not to prosecute in specific cases. Indeed, Robert Francis makes a strong argument that the Health and Safety Executive is too distant from hospitals and not the right organisation to be focusing on health care and criminal prosecutions in such cases. So we will look closely at his recommendation to transfer the right to conduct criminal prosecutions away from the HSE to the Care Quality Commission.

Thirdly, we must purge the culture of complacency that is undermining the quality of care in our country. This requires a clear view about what is acceptable and what is not. In our schools, we have a clear system of deciding whether a school has the right culture and whether it is succeeding or failing. It is a system based on the judgment of independent experts who walk the corridors of the school and analyse more than just the statistics. The public therefore know which schools near them are outstanding and which are failing. They have a right to know exactly the same about our hospitals.

We need a hospital inspections regime that does not just look at numerical targets but examines the quality of care and makes an open, public and explicit judgment. So I have asked the Care Quality Commission to create a new post, a chief inspector of hospitals to take personal responsibility for that task. I want the new inspections regime to start this autumn, and we will look at the law to ensure that the inspector’s judgment is about whether a hospital is clean, safe and caring, rather than just an exercise in bureaucratic box-ticking. In the meantime, I have asked the NHS medical director, Professor Sir Bruce Keogh, to conduct an immediate investigation into the care at hospitals with the highest mortality rates and to check that urgent remedial action is being taken.

Complacency in the system has meant that, all too often, patient complaints have been ignored. So I am today asking the right hon. Member for Cynon Valley (Ann Clwyd) and the chief executive of South Tees Hospitals NHS Foundation Trust, Tricia Hart, specifically to advise on how NHS hospitals can handle complaints better in the future.

I have talked today about some of the systemic failures, but at the heart of any system are the people who work in it and the values they hold. It is worth quoting in full what Francis says, early in his report:

“Healthcare is not an activity short of systems intended to maintain and improve standards, regulate the conduct of staff, and report and scrutinise performance. Continuous efforts have been made to refine and improve the way these work. Yet none of them, from local groups to the national regulators, from local councillors to the Secretary of State, appreciated the scale of the deficiencies at Stafford and, therefore, over a period of years did anything effective to stop them.”

What makes our national health service special is the simple principle that the moment you are injured or fall ill, or the moment something happens to someone you love, you know that whoever you are, wherever you are from, whatever is wrong, and however much you have got in the bank, there is a place you can go where people will look after you and do everything they can to make things right again. The shocking truth is that that precious principle of British life was broken in Mid Staffordshire.

We would not be here today without the tireless campaigning of the families who suffered so terribly, and I am sure that the whole House will join me in paying tribute to their incredible courage and determination over those long and painful years. When I met Julie Bailey and the families again on Monday, she said to me that she wanted the legacy of their loved ones to be an NHS safe for everyone. That is the legacy that together we must secure, and I commend this statement to the House.

[Edward Miliband (Doncaster North) (Lab)]

I thank the Prime Minister for his statement and for the tone in which he made it. The NHS represents the best values of this country, and what happened at Stafford was an appalling betrayal of those values. We all think that when our own loved ones—our mother or father, grandmother or grandfather—go into hospital, we are placing them in the trust of the NHS and we expect hospitals to be places of utmost compassion and the highest standards of care. At Stafford, patients became victims and their relatives who pleaded for assistance were ignored or even made to feel intimidated.

Let me join the Prime Minister in paying tribute to all those former patients, relatives and staff who came forward to speak out, including those who gave evidence to this and to previous inquiries. Let me also thank Robert Francis for his work on this and on the previous inquiry.

Let me also say, as was reflected in the Prime Minister’s remarks, that what happened at Stafford was not typical of the NHS. Day in, day out, the vast majority of those who go to work in our NHS deliver great care to patients up and down the country. They are as horrified as all of us by what happened in Stafford.

The previous Government were right to apologise on behalf of the Government and the NHS to the patients and families that suffered so badly at Stafford hospital. I reaffirm that today. We on the Labour side are truly sorry for what happened. What happened has no place in any NHS hospital. We must ensure that it does not and cannot happen again.

As the Prime Minister makes clear, today’s report says that the primary responsibility for what happened lay with the board of the hospital, but there are wider lessons that politicians on all sides must learn, including a lesson for all parties about the dangers of frequent reorganisations of the NHS, which Francis mentions.

The Prime Minister says it will take some time to digest the report in full, so let me ask some specific questions. First, on the patient voice, effective regulation is essential, but the reality is that regulators cannot be everywhere spotting every problem. Patients, their families and staff are everywhere in our NHS, so we must ensure that they are properly heard.

The challenge is to change the culture of the NHS and to support rather than shut out people who complain. The NHS constitution offers protections for whistleblowers, and we support moves to strengthen that. The Francis report, however, also highlights criticisms and concerns about both previous and current arrangements for patient bodies. Does the Prime Minister agree—from something he said earlier, I think he does—that whatever bodies we choose to represent patients, they need to be independent and have the powers to be an effective voice and challenge to the system.

Secondly, on staffing, the basic requirements of any NHS hospital are that there are sufficient staff to look after patients and that they act with compassion. In too many cases at Stafford, that just did not happen. Compassion should always be at the heart of nursing, and it needs to be at the heart of nurse training, so we support the moves that the Prime Minister announced.

As Robert Francis has said previously—I quote from the first report—in explaining what went wrong:

“the overwhelmingly prevalent factors were a lack of staff, both in terms of absolute numbers and appropriate skills”.

Does the Prime Minister accept the report’s point that we need to consider benchmarks on staff numbers and skills throughout our NHS?

Thirdly, on regulation, the problems at Stafford should have been picked up much earlier. Monitor and the Healthcare Commission should have worked together much more closely. We will look at the Prime Minister’s proposals around the chief inspector of nursing care, but does he support the move to a single regulator, which is in the Francis report? On health care assistants—the Prime Minister mentioned them—who do such important work in our hospital wards and communities, does he agree that we need training and registration for them to improve standards and safety?

Fourthly, on foundation trust status, the enthusiasm for foundation trusts has been shared on both sides of this House, and the journey to foundation trust status has clearly been a beneficial process for many trusts. In the case of Stafford, however, it clearly was not. For the future, has the Prime Minister made any reassessment of the current timetable for other trusts to achieve foundation status and of whether more flexibility is needed?

Fifthly, on waiting time targets, today’s report clearly states that

“it is not suggested that properly designed targets, appropriately monitored, cannot provide considerable benefit to patients”.

In other words, targets have their place, but they must be kept in their place. Does the Prime Minister accept that, as the Francis analysis suggests, the problem at Stafford was how the A and E target was managed by that hospital, and that many hospitals up and down the country have delivered excellent care while meeting the A and E target? Neither he nor I want to go back to the days when people were left waiting 12 hours on trolleys and 18 months for an operation.

Finally, let me turn to the issue of integration. I believe that there is a bigger overarching issue here, which applies not just in Stafford, but elsewhere in our NHS. It is something that my right hon. Friend the shadow Health Secretary has talked about recently. The ageing society is bringing a whole new set of demands on the NHS. A group of elderly and infirm patients require not just physical treatment for their immediate illness, but need much greater care and attention for their basic needs. As the Francis report says, we must address this new challenge that the NHS faces to make sure we avoid a repeat of what happened at Stafford.

Does the Prime Minister agree that in every hospital we need to put in place the right support for the whole of a person’s needs, including those of the elderly population? Does he further agree that that means breaking down the barriers that still exist in much of the country between health care provided by the NHS and social care provided by local authorities?

We cannot turn the clock back and undo the damage that happened at Stafford, but we owe it to those who suffered, to the people of Stafford and to the country as a whole to work together to act on this report and to prevent a scandal like this from happening elsewhere. We in the Opposition will play our part in making that happen.

[The Prime Minister]

I thank the right hon. Gentleman for his remarks and for the tone in which he made them. I apologise for not getting my response to the report to him a little earlier this morning. That was a technical mistake rather than anything more sinister. The right hon. Gentleman is right to thank the relatives and to thank Robert Francis for his work. Let me try to answer the right hon. Gentleman’s questions.

On the issue of reorganisations, Francis says:

“The extent of the failure of the system shown in this report suggests that a fundamental culture change is needed. This does not require root and branch reorganisation—the system has had many of those—but it requires changes which can largely be implemented within the system that has now been created by the new reforms.”

I hope we can agree that the best thing to do now is to learn the lessons and put in place what needs to be done.

The right hon. Gentleman is absolutely right to raise the issue of listening to patients. As he said, we have got to make sure that whatever organisation we have—we have established HealthWatch—is independent, credible and has power. It is interesting to note what Francis finds on page 46:

“It is now quite clear that what replaced”

community health councils, and there were

“two attempts at reorganisation in 10 years, failed to produce an improved voice for patients and the public, but achieved the opposite.”

We need to learn the lessons and try to make sure that HealthWatch becomes everything we all want it to be.

As for supporting complaints, what Francis and the right hon. Gentleman said is that when there are complaints, they have got to be given a bigger voice and be taken seriously. Here, Members of Parliament have a role to play. Somewhere, buried in the report, there is a passage that is mildly critical of MPs. Like others in the community, we love our local hospitals and we always want to stand up for them, but we have to be careful to look at the results in our local hospitals and work out whether we should not sometimes give voice to some of the concerns rather than go along with a culture that says everything is all right all of the time—sometimes it is not.

On the issue of staff numbers and benchmarks, we think it important that there should be some benchmarks. We believe that because of the funding commitment we have made, there is no excuse for understaffing or for staff shortages, but that obviously requires good management.

On having a single regulator, the right hon. Gentleman made a lot of points about Monitor and the Care Quality Commission and whether there was confusion between them. When he talks of strengthening the CQC and giving it greater powers, that is in principle, as I said in my statement, the right direction to go in.

The right hon. Gentleman asked about trusts, and both sides of the House have supported the idea of foundation trusts, making sure hospitals are more accountable, more responsible and able to take more decisions. The problem is not with creating foundation trusts, but arises if the move to create them means that other things that matter more than trust status—such as patient care—are pushed to one side. We must all learn the lesson and ensure that for the next round of trust creation, they must not be rushed and they must happen only when they are ready and on the basis that patient care comes first.

The point about targets is important. I believe that there is a place for targets in our NHS, but I think that under the last Government they became too tight and too obsessive. I also think that the last Government recognised that themselves, and started to change the approach.

The public have a right to know that waiting times in A and E will not be too long and that treatments will be carried out quickly, so there is an importance in targets. I think that what Francis is saying is that it was not the targets that were to blame, but a culture in the hospital—and perhaps in other hospitals, although he does not inquire into that—in which targets and their achievement were placed ahead of patient care. Again, the two should not be alternatives.

What the right hon. Gentleman said about the ageing population and the challenge facing our NHS was absolutely right. A key part of our dementia challenge is raising the standard of, in particular, the way in which we treat elderly people in our hospitals. I also agree with the right hon. Gentleman that we need to break down the barrier between health and social care.

I hope that the report will provide not an opportunity to try to find scapegoats or to fire up some phony political debate, but a moment when everyone in the House can agree. We all love our national health service, and this afternoon’s discussion shows that we have the same ideas about patient care, about quality, about bringing health and social care together, and about ensuring that a good, rational system has patients at its heart. I hope that this can be a moment when the country comes together over our NHS, rather than seeking divisions.

[Jeremy Lefroy (Stafford) (Con)]

Today is a day on which, first of all, we think of those who suffered in Stafford and of their loved ones. I thank the Prime Minister and the Leader of the Opposition for the tone that they have adopted. I also pay tribute to Julie Bailey and Cure the NHS, to Robert Francis, to my hon. Friend the Member for Stone (Mr Cash), to my right hon. Friend the Member for South Cambridgeshire (Mr Lansley), to the Secretary of State and to the Prime Minister for the way in which they have championed the cause of this inquiry.

I know how passionate the Prime Minister is about the NHS and the work that goes on day in, day out, and I share that passion. Does he agree that the most important thing that we can do for the patients and their loved ones who have suffered is implement the recommendations that we are able to implement as quickly as possible, so that they can result in an NHS that is safe for all and is known for the highest standards of compassion and care?

[The Prime Minister]

I am sure that my hon. Friend, who has spoken up about this issue for many years, spoke for everyone in Stafford and throughout the country when he said that we should put the victims up front and centre. They are the people we should be holding in our thoughts today because of how they have suffered.

I agree with what my hon. Friend said about implementing the recommendations. There are 290 of them, so we must examine them carefully and see how we can best implement them, and the Department of Health will lead that work. Let me make two additional points. First, the recommendations are not simply for the Government or the Department; they are for every hospital, every nurse and every doctor to consider. I think it very important for that to happen. Secondly, as I tried to make clear in my statement, for all the changes in the system and all the corrections of regulatory failure that may be made, a system is only as good as the people who work in it. I think that at the heart of what Francis is saying is a cry from the heart that this is about quality, vocation and compassion, and that those are the values that we need to put back at the heart of the NHS.

[Joan Walley (Stoke-on-Trent North) (Lab)]

I welcome the fact that there has been a public inquiry, and I welcome the Prime Minister’s statement.

What has happened in Mid Staffordshire affects the whole of Staffordshire. In view of the emphasis that is now to be placed on compassion as well as on targets, and in view of what the Prime Minister has said about the role of social care, may I ask whether he will arrange for local Members of Parliament to have some form of oversight in Staffordshire so that the collaboration that will be needed to introduce this culture change can be put into practice on the ground, particularly in the light of closures that involve social care homes as well?

[The Prime Minister]

I think it very important for the voice of local Members of Parliament to be listened to. The Secretary of State has said that he will ensure that Staffordshire Members of Parliament, and Members of Parliament representing Stoke-on-Trent, can advise him on the issue. Let me refer again, however, to one of the things that may need to change in our political debate. If we are really going to put quality and patient care upfront, we must sometimes look at the facts concerning the level of service in some hospitals and some care homes, and not always—as we have all done, me included—reach for the button that says “Oppose the local change”. I know that that is what the hon. Lady was saying, but I think that this is a moment when we may be able to ensure that our political culture is more in line with what is required in our health culture.

[Mr Aidan Burley (Cannock Chase) (Con)]

Many of my constituents died unnecessarily at Stafford hospital between 2005 and 2009. Given Monitor’s continuing review of the future of Mid Staffordshire’s foundation trust, I remain astonished that it was given foundation trust status in 2009, when all these problems were going on.

Does the Prime Minister agree that the biggest lesson that can be learned is that when front-line professionals who love and care about the NHS are genuinely concerned about standards of care, we should have a system that allows them to speak out without fear of exposure or victimisation?

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right to speak up for the victims from Cannock and their families, whom he represents properly in the House. He is right to say that we must listen to the voices of victims and patients, and he is also right to talk about the reform of regulatory bodies, although, as I said earlier, we should be careful about thinking that just reforming regulatory bodies will be enough.

My hon. Friend specifically mentioned the importance of whistleblowers. It should not be necessary to rely on whistleblowing to deal with problems of quality, but sometimes it will be. We have taken measures to fund a helpline to support them, to embed rights in their employment contracts, and to issue new guidance in partnership with trade unions and employers. So we are taking the issue of whistleblowers seriously.

[Frank Dobson (Holborn and St Pancras) (Lab)]

As Health Secretary, I changed the law to provide protection for whistleblowing and to make hospital boards responsible for the quality of care. I am sure the Prime Minister accepts my disappointment that those changes were clearly not sufficient to avoid the things that happened in Mid Staffordshire.

May I issue a warning? I greatly welcome the proposal to make openness, transparency and candour a legal requirement, but if we are to do that in a litigation-obsessed society, it will need to be matched by the introduction of a system of no-fault compensation. Otherwise, it is possible that in some hospitals the doctors will be outnumbered by ambulance-chasing lawyers.

--- Later in debate ---

[The Prime Minister]

I will consider carefully what the right hon. Gentleman has said about no-fault compensation. The cost of litigation in the NHS is clearly a rapidly rising part of the budget, and that is of concern.

The right hon. Gentleman’s point about the laws that he changed is important. What I think we have observed in Governments of all parties is the belief that changing the law to make it clear that quality is important as well as cost, and that patient care matters, does not necessarily lead to a change in the culture.

That returns me to the point made by my hon. Friend the Member for Cannock Chase (Mr Burley). The report makes it clear that when the issue of foundation trust status arose, those who were judging it did so on the basis of a whole series of metrics that were mainly financial, and on the basis of targets, rather than looking behind those for the quality. It is a culture change that will ensure that, when a hospital board meets, the first things that it considers are clinical standards, quality and patient care. That is the first stuff: that is actually what the organisation is meant to deliver. The board can think about the finances, the targets and all the rest of it afterwards. It is that culture change that needs to take place.

[Mr William Cash (Stone) (Con)]

On behalf of my constituents and the victims and relatives who have been so grievously traumatised by these tragic events and the lack of patient care, I congratulate my right hon. Friend on realistically listening, as Leader of the Opposition, to my repeated calls in Parliament for a real public inquiry, which he established under the Inquiries Act 2005, I also congratulate him on his statement, and on his praise for the inquiry itself and for Cure the NHS—in particular, Julie Bailey, my constituents Debra Hazeldine and Ken Lownds, and all the others who have campaigned so effectively and with such passion for patient care.

[The Prime Minister]

I thank my hon. Friend for what he has said. He did call repeatedly for a public inquiry, and he was right to make such a call. That is reflected in the report, and he can read it today. What was required was not an investigation of the failure in the hospital, but an investigation of the wider systemic failure. For instance, why was this not brought to light more quickly? What was the role of the regulator? What was the role of the Nursing and Midwifery Council? All that is laid out in the report.

However, I think that there was another very profound reason for holding a public inquiry, although I know that it will not satisfy some of the victims. They feel incredibly strongly, and rightly strongly. These terrible things happened to their loved ones, but where is the criminal prosecution? Where are the people who have been struck off? There has not been proper accountability, and there is not proper accountability in our system. A public inquiry can look to the future and say, “Here’s what needs to change,” so if this ever happens again—I hope to God it does not—there will be much better accountability than the people of Stafford have had.

[Paul Farrelly (Newcastle-under-Lyme) (Lab)]

The tragic events at Stafford are having a continuing impact on both management and care at the University hospital of North Staffordshire. A and E closures at Stafford have caused major strains, for example, and our new hospital was already struggling as a result of bed closures ordered a few years ago by Sir David Nicholson’s travelling troubleshooter, Antony Sumara. For reasons of patient safety, our hospital’s chief executive last year rightly reopened many of those beds to cope with the added A and E pressures. That has only added to the financial pressures, however. When rather distant bureaucrats at the Department of Health and the regional health authority play their part in responding to those pressures, will the Prime Minister ensure that they do so with sympathy and local understanding and put patient safety and care at the heart of the response?

[The Prime Minister]

I agree with the hon. Gentleman that when those above and beyond a hospital are making decisions on questions such as whether the hospital should become a foundation trust, they must look very closely at quality of patient care, not simply financial and other metrics. That is at the heart of what Francis is saying. The CQC believes that the hospital is currently providing an adequate standard of care. Only last week it carried out an unannounced inspection and it was content with what it found. Recent reports have been disturbing, however, and there is important work still to do in this hospital as in others, because “adequate” is never good enough; they have to strive to be better, and I know that that is what is going on.

[Nicholas Soames (Mid Sussex) (Con)]

Whatever the abject clinical and management failings, this was at heart a truly disgraceful failure of leadership at all levels. Indeed, too many inadequate and failing managers in leadership positions are repeatedly recycled through the NHS. Accordingly, will the Prime Minister consider establishing a national health service staff college to which senior managers may go, and ensure that no senior manager may take command of a hospital trust or any higher post unless he is a graduate of such a college?

[The Prime Minister]

I thank my right hon. Friend for his remarks. When he has a chance to look at the report in more detail, I think he will be pleased to see that Robert Francis suggests something along those lines: he suggests some form of leadership college. We think that has merit and will look at it carefully. I am nervous about committing instantly to creating more NHS organisations and institutions as there are a lot already, but the point my right hon. Friend makes is a good one.

The other point my right hon. Friend makes is vitally important in terms of the accountability issue: all too often when something has gone wrong in one of our hospitals, managers or overseers are recycled and reappear, as if by magic, in another part of the NHS. We need all those responsible for accountability—the CQC, Monitor, the Nursing and Midwifery Council, the General Medical Council—to take a clearer view about whether someone is up to the job or not.

[Alan Johnson (Kingston upon Hull West and Hessle) (Lab)]

I thank the Prime Minister for his statement and the manner in which he made it. Does he agree that our biggest challenge is to make quality of care the central organising principle of the NHS? That was recognised by Lord Ara Darzi, although I am not sure whether we were particularly successful at pursuing it. We can all say that that is the challenge, but addressing it creates a series of problems, including—as I was saying to my right hon. Friend the Member for Holborn and St Pancras (Frank Dobson)—the problem of productivity. If nurses and GPs and other doctors are to spend more time with patients and focus on care, there will be ramifications for other ways in which we measure how the health service is working. Does the Prime Minister therefore agree that the challenge that Ara Darzi sets is about how to make care truly the central organising principle of the NHS?

[The Prime Minister]

The right hon. Gentleman speaks with great knowledge of, and affection for, the NHS, and I, too, am a fan of Ara Darzi and think he has a huge amount to offer. He had a big hand in giving priority to quality at the end of the last Government’s term. Francis is saying that there needs to be a culture change in respect of quality, but we must also look at what we are currently measuring. If hospital managers are measured on financial metrics and target metrics, rather than on quality of care—that is what we see flowing through the report—all the words we say and laws we pass on quality of care will not have sufficient impact. We need to look at that.

[Simon Hughes (Bermondsey and Old Southwark) (LD)]

I welcome the report and the Prime Minister’s response, including on the hospital inspectorate proposal. Will he ensure that the Government’s full response includes giving special consideration to trying to change the culture of calling for the lawyers, which is what often currently happens when there are complaints? Instead, everybody should know in advance who is responsible for the ward, who is responsible for the clinical care and who is responsible for the management, and that they will be held to account. We must also ensure that the best practice in clinical care—which we often see in our wards—is used to judge what works and we are very tough on those who have failed.

[The Prime Minister]

My right hon. Friend makes two points. First, I agree that we need clear lines of accountability so we can see who is responsible for standards of care on the ward and in the hospital, and they must be held to account for that. Secondly, I have a lot of sympathy with the point that sometimes people making a compliant are not seeking financial redress, and I think all constituency MPs would agree with that, too. They just want to be taken seriously. They want to be listened to; they want an acknowledgement. They will not go off and hire lawyers. They want an acknowledgement that their elderly relative was not treated properly, and they want it soon. I hope this report launches a debate in the NHS about how we can deliver that.

[Tristram Hunt (Stoke-on-Trent Central) (Lab)]

There remains real trauma and anguish in Stoke-on-Trent about the abuse, poor treatment and unnecessary deaths of relatives and friends in Stafford hospital. I welcome the focus on delivering a culture of care in the management of hospitals and on the accountability of boards, and I also welcome the questioning of nursing and medical bodies about the absence of accountability. I have two questions, however. What elements of the new NHS reforms make it less likely that a Mid Staffs will occur again, and are we absolutely sure that HealthWatch will be fit for purpose in April? On the north Staffordshire health care economy, the University hospital of North Staffordshire is taking a lot of slack from Mid Staffordshire. Can we ensure that the Department of Health supports North Staffordshire in addressing any problems?

[The Prime Minister]

Let me go directly to the important question about the reforms, the status quo once they are in place and how that will help deliver what Francis talks about. As I said in answer to the Leader of the Opposition, Francis says he is content this can be delivered:

“it requires changes which can largely be implemented within the system that has now been created by the new reforms.”

I hope the reforms will help in a number of ways. I hope HealthWatch can be created as a robust independent organisation that is taken seriously by those in the health service and more widely. I hope that having clinical leadership of the clinical commissioning groups, with local GPs and others in charge, will mean they will reach further into their hospital and perhaps ask better questions than the primary care trust put. As I said at Prime Minister’s questions, I also hope that the Department of Health sets a mandate for the national Commissioning Board and that we put quality and care for patients at the heart of it. While I accept that we need some process targets because things such as waits in A and E matter, I hope that the move towards judging outcomes rather than processes will reinforce the importance of quality, because if we do not get quality care, we will not get quality outcomes.

[Andrew Griffiths (Burton) (Con)]

The Prime Minister will be aware that since the closure of the A and E at Stafford, Queen’s hospital in Burton has been dealing with some of the patients that would have gone to Mid Staffs. Will he join me in thanking all the staff at Queen’s and the other hospitals across Staffordshire who have worked so hard to try to deal with the consequences of the Mid Staffs fallout? Given that he understands the genuine concern that is felt in my constituency and across Staffordshire about health care, will he assure my constituents that never again will ticking boxes be put ahead of caring and compassion in the NHS?

[The Prime Minister]

I can certainly give my hon. Friend that guarantee. The whole tenor of this report is that quality patient care must come before anything else, including targets, no matter how important they can sometimes be. I join him in praising those in his own local hospital who have been working hard and delivering accident and emergency services. If anyone wants to understand just how badly the target chasing and obsession got at Stafford hospital, they can see on page 108 in volume I some chilling evidence that staff just felt they could not complain about quality because they were being chased so hard on the targets that everything else was put to one side.

[Robert Flello (Stoke-on-Trent South) (Lab)]

The Prime Minister has said that the concerns of patients’ families were ignored, but in fact they and representatives were lied to. One consequence of what happened at Mid Staffordshire is that, despite nobody suggesting that there is a widespread problem throughout the NHS, people have a real fear: whenever there is a case of poor care in one of our hospitals, people immediately jump to conclusions and ask, “Is this a wider problem?” I look forward to hearing the Prime Minister’s comments in a moment, but I hope that this report will go some way to alleviating people’s very real fear that when they see one of their loved ones treated in a way that falls way below or slightly below the standard they were expecting, they can have the confidence to know that it is not Mid Staffs all over again.

[The Prime Minister]

I listened carefully to what the hon. Gentleman said, and I am sure he is right; I do not think we are looking at other problems across our NHS of a Stafford-style scale, where this went on for year after year and potentially hundreds of people lost their lives prematurely. However, we do know that there are problems in parts of our NHS and problems in individual hospitals. One of the things we have to learn from this report is that when that happens we must not say that everything is fine and we must not have a culture of complacency. Instead, let us have a proper way of dealing with the problems. That is the big change that needs to come out of this.

[Gavin Williamson (South Staffordshire) (Con)]

Many of my constituents both use and depend on Stafford hospital. Will my right hon. Friend assure them that future nurse training will all be focused on care and compassion, and not on an obsession with targets?

[The Prime Minister]

The Care Quality Commission has said that Stafford hospital is providing adequate care. There was a recent inspection to check up on it, and obviously more work needs to be done as it recovers from this. We need to be absolutely clear that nurses not only provide amazing care, but are also well trained and can carry out some quite complicated medical procedures, and they are proud of that. They are often—dare I say—better sometimes than the junior doctor at putting in the cannula or whatever. We should praise that and we should want to have professional nurses. The key thing that needs to change as we employ and train nurses is that we make sure that at the heart of their reason for wanting to do the job is not just access to the qualifications and the career, but a real belief in compassion and caring, and that it is a vocation.

[Ann Clwyd (Cynon Valley) (Lab)]

Apart from addressing the training of nurses, we need nurses who do not mind wiping people’s bottoms or holding the sick bowl under somebody’s face, but there are not enough of those any more. I am glad that the Prime Minister talked about compassion and care. I have received more than 1,000 letters and e-mails since I first spoke out from people who echo some of the points he has made today and which we all know about as constituency MPs. There must be an opportunity for whistleblowers to act without fear of reprisal. There must be freedom for people to make complaints, to speak out and to say when they see that something is going wrong. I only wish that I had spoken out and shouted, instead of thinking that I was leaving somebody in the hands of professionals, which, I am afraid, did not extend to the care and compassion we would all expect somebody to be treated with in hospital.

I just wish to pay a quick tribute to the campaigners, as the Prime Minister has done. I pay particular tribute to Julie Bailey, whom I have also met. I have met dozens of those people, and I think we would all applaud their tenacity in speaking out and sticking to their guns. I look forward to helping to make the system better because, as the Prime Minister has said, we all love the NHS, but we know that there are systemic faults in it at the moment.

[The Prime Minister]

I thank the right hon. Lady for what she says, and I am delighted that she is going to be helping us with this piece of work to really set out how complaints should be properly handled. I think she speaks for everyone when she says not only that she loves the NHS, but that when we see the best level of care handed out to loved ones, it is one of the most inspiring things in the world, and that is why it is so disturbing and so hurtful when we see poor standards of care and people let down. We have to get a balance right in this debate: we must continually and rightly praise nurses, health care assistants and doctors for the care and compassion they provide—for what they do every day—but we must marry that with a determination that where there is bad practice we should join them in pointing it out. There has been a culture of complacency that we have all been part of—MPs are to blame here, too—for too long.

[Christopher Pincher (Tamworth) (Con)]

I note that the Prime Minister shares the shock and incredulity of the people of Staffordshire, the county where I was born and which I represent, that such terrible things can happen in one of their local hospitals. I am pleased that he says he will make it easier for whistleblowers and for patients to put on record their experience of care. Will he say a little more about the speed with which he expects those data to be put in the public domain, so that patients, the public and hospital managers can make quick and informed decisions about what is going on in their hospitals?

[The Prime Minister]

I thank my hon. Friend for that. Like others, Staffordshire MPs have spoken with great passion about their care for their local health service and what it can provide.

On the timing, Robert Francis says that he wants all parts of the NHS to respond to him on what they are going to do right across the NHS, and that should be done over the next year. The Department of Health will be looking in the coming months at all the recommendations and responding. Specifically on the inspections, which are so important, as I said in my statement we are going to look at these changes to the CQC, but even before that Bruce Keogh is going to run this set of inspections into hospitals that have high rates of mortality and make sure that they are being dealt with properly.

[Mr Kevin Barron (Rother Valley) (Lab)]

It is quite clear that the Public Interest Disclosure Act 1998, which was supposed to encourage and protect whistleblowing, has failed in this case when faced with the culture of the NHS. On the lessons that could be learned, the Health Committee published a report in 2009 on patient safety and recommended that the Government should look at how whistleblowing was handled around the world, particularly in New Zealand. There, it is handled by an independent person, who carries out the inquiry, often anonymously from the complainant, and gets a far better reaction from institutions than we do here in the United Kingdom.

[The Prime Minister]

The right hon. Gentleman makes a powerful point about whistleblowers and how we handle them, and I am sure that Health Ministers will listen to that. I just make the point that supporting whistleblowers is one thing, but we also have to respond to what is being said. There were whistleblowers in the case of the Stafford hospital, but the problem was that the response to the complaints, the campaigns and the whistleblowing was completely inadequate.

[Dr Phillip Lee (Bracknell) (Con)]

I do not necessarily share the enthusiasm of others for hospitals to gain foundation trust status, particularly those serving less than half a million people. I note with interest that the chief executive of Heatherwood and Wexham Park Hospitals NHS Foundation Trust, who oversaw the foundation trust status being secured a few years ago, has now retired with a healthy pension and so on. That trust is now £80 million in debt and unsustainable. I also note with interest that the chief executive in this case cited the old chestnut of stress-related illness in order to avoid contributing to the report. When are we going to draw up contracts so that people get sacked for poor performance, be it financial or clinical? As far as I am concerned, the same should apply to hospital managers as applied to bankers.

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend speaks with considerable knowledge of the NHS, and he is absolutely right to say that it is depressing to look down the list of those responsible for the Stafford hospital at the time and see what has happened. It reads “Left on compromise agreement”, “Left on compromise agreement”, “Stepped down” and “Now working somewhere else”. As I said, the accountability mechanisms in the NHS are not good enough, which is why this report is so important. I now want to see all the organisations—the trusts, the CQC, the Department of Health, the General Medical Council and so on—answering the question: why is bad practice not punished properly? That is one of the key things that has to come out of this report. That is not everything that those campaigners from Stafford want to hear; they want more accountability from the people involved in this problem. I can understand absolutely why they want that, but I think that what we can get out of the Francis report is a sense that there are going to be proper rules to deal with failure in the future.

[Several hon. Members]

rose—

--- Later in debate ---

[The Prime Minister]

There are two answers. The first relates to the contracts that are signed in the first place; every trust board needs to read the report and think about how it will put in place those contracts. The second is to make sure that when there are failures, proper action is taken. That is what needs to happen.

[David Tredinnick (Bosworth) (Con)]

Will the Prime Minister ensure that the chief inspector of hospitals has access to all the information that he or she needs from the General Medical Council and all the other bodies? Does he agree that wards for the elderly in particular need regular inspections by nurses?

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend makes an important point. My view—we can debate this over the coming weeks—is that quite a lot of transparent information is available in the NHS, but it is not properly acted on. What we need from the chief inspector of hospitals is a sense that, as in schools, you consider the data, walk the wards, look at the quality of care with a professional team and then reach a judgment. People do not necessarily need all the data; they need a judgment. They need to know whether the hospital is okay, whether it is clean and whether it cares for people. That is what is required.

[John Healey (Wentworth and Dearne) (Lab)]

The report is clear that at the heart of this dreadful series of deaths was a failure to pursue the concerns and complaints of patients and their families vigorously and properly. The Prime Minister mentioned the Nursing and Midwifery Council. Does he know that unlike other professional regulators that body does not have the power to review, reopen or revise disciplinary decisions, even when there is fresh information or when it thinks it has got it wrong? Will he fix that flaw without delay?

[The Prime Minister]

The right hon. Gentleman makes an important point. That is why we asked the Law Commission, as I said in my statement, to consider sweeping away the council’s current rules and putting proper rules in their place.

[Sir Tony Baldry (Banbury) (Con)]

Is there not always a role for concerned community oversight? Will my right hon. Friend confirm that members of local health and wellbeing boards, members of HealthWatch and constituency members of Parliament should always be welcome visitors at their local hospitals?

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend makes an important point. Members of scrutiny councils or any of the other bodies he mentioned should be able to walk the wards and have a look around, and that is vital. It is worth looking in detail at the report’s findings on scrutiny committees and the rest of it. It has some pretty good recommendations on how they need on occasion to sharpen their act.

[Barbara Keeley (Worsley and Eccles South) (Lab)]

The executive summary of the Francis report states on page 45:

“There was an unacceptable delay in addressing the issue of shortage of skilled nursing staff.”

The CQC tells us that 17 hospitals are operating with dangerously low levels of nursing staff, resulting in poor care. Does the Prime Minister agree that it is now time to do something about levels of nursing and those ratios rather than leaving it to hospital boards or individual trust boards to decide them?

[The Prime Minister]

What the hon. Lady says about the importance of having clear benchmarks for what is acceptable is right. Over the past few years, the ratio of nurses to acute beds has improved. The paragraph to which she refers is interesting, as it states:

“There can be little doubt that the reason for the slow progress”

in dealing with the shortage of nurses

“and the slowness of the Board to inject the necessary funds…was the priority given to ensuring that the Trust books were in order for the”

foundation trust application. This is absolutely what Francis is saying: finances and targets were put ahead of patient care, so that is the big change that needs to take place.

[Lorely Burt (Solihull) (LD)]

I have here the executive summary to the report; it alone is 100 pages long. The Prime Minister has acted swiftly in appointing an inspector of hospitals and exacting the help of a number of specialists in the industry. Does he agree that we also need political will and scrutiny, and will he ensure that all the findings can have full cross-party parliamentary scrutiny to drive the changes and ensure that this will never happen again?

[The Prime Minister]

I hope that we can have not just scrutiny but a proper debate. I am sure that the Leader of the House—who played a key role in ensuring that the inquiry happened, for which I pay tribute to him—will be able to make time for a debate at some stage to consider the report in detail. It is absolutely enormous, and I have the three volumes of it here, but helpfully volume 2 goes through the key areas—the strategic health authorities, the primary care trust and what the regulator did—so that we can see an outline of the concerns about the lack of focus on patient care that flow through it so clearly.

[Grahame M. Morris (Easington) (Lab)]

I compliment the Prime Minister on his statement and my right hon. Friend the Leader of the Opposition on his response. I have not had a chance to go through the recommendations, but the Prime Minister mentioned the failings at trust board level. Will he agree to consider a recommendation from the health service section of my union, Unite, that a national intelligence unit linked to a national telephone hotline, which could be answerable to the chief inspector of hospitals under the CQC, could analyse the information coming in and identify where the problems were so that the chief inspector could take corrective action?

[The Prime Minister]

I will consider carefully what the hon. Gentleman says and I am sure that colleagues in the Department of Health will, too. My sense is that there is quite a lot of transparent information about mortality and morbidity rates, through Dr Foster and the rest of it. In too many cases, there has been an unwillingness to act and to act with enough clarity. We should focus on that, too.

[Paul Uppal (Wolverhampton South West) (Con)]

Of the three main failings highlighted in the Francis report, may I point out particularly to my right hon. Friend the third—that of the defensive culture in the NHS? Historically, clinical negligence cases continually highlight the fact that it is the recognition by hospitals that something has gone wrong that often blocks the issue being addressed. My right hon. Friend was absolutely correct to say that often families are not looking for financial remuneration but for a clear apology. May I impress on him and the Secretary of State my request that any future inspection regime should put that at the heart and the centre of any inspection?

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend is right. That was why I mentioned in my statement the importance of trying to have a transparent and frank inspection system, such as that in schools, because that challenges complacency. If a report is received that says that a school is not up to standard, the community knows and the teachers know. Yes, it can be depressing for a while as it is sorted out, but it is much better than leaving problems to fester.

[Valerie Vaz (Walsall South) (Lab)]

I thank the Prime Minister for his statement and I am sure that he will agree that care cannot and should not be measured as a chargeable unit. May I draw his attention to a report by the Health Committee, published in June 2011, on complaints and litigation? How will he ensure that it is not just the front-line overstretched staff who must listen to patient voices but, more important, the senior management?

[The Prime Minister]

The hon. Lady is right. What strikes me as I meet hospital managers is when they say that at their board meetings they take patient care, clinical standards and safety standards first. That is the right thing to do because if a hospital is not safe, if it is not clean and if it is not caring for people, it is not doing its job—never mind whether it is meeting its targets or whether the numbers add up. That is absolutely at the heart of this question and that is one of the things that needs to change.

[Andrew George (St Ives) (LD)]

Crucially, the report identified the problem of inadequate staffing levels, which often lies at the heart of care problems in the NHS. However, only recommendation 163 of the 290 recommendations mentions any action on that. Will the Prime Minister ensure that the Government bring forward stronger guidance to benchmark registered nurse to patient ratios on hospital wards to address that fundamental basic problem?

[The Prime Minister]

I have said that I think there is a role for benchmarking and considering those issues, but we would be missing something if we thought that this was all about systems and figures. Quality of patient care, vocation and compassion must be at the heart of all this.

[Mr Ronnie Campbell (Blyth Valley) (Lab)]

The Prime Minister mentioned that Members of Parliament should be involved and I think the report mentioned it, too. When I first came to this place more than 20 years ago, I was stuck on a Committee called the parliamentary Select Committee for the ombudsman, who has the power of a High Court judge. We used to look at health service cases very regularly and bring the board members and chief executive in front of us. Why was the ombudsman not involved in this case?

[The Prime Minister]

The hon. Gentleman makes a good point about how things have changed, and perhaps we should look at that. As Members of Parliament take an interest in this, let me read what the report says on page 47. It is not good news, I am afraid:

“Local MPs received feedback and concerns about the Trust. However, these were largely just passed on to others without follow up or analysis of their cumulative implications. MPs are accountable to their electorate, but they are not necessarily experts in healthcare and are certainly not regulators. They might wish to consider how to increase their sensitivity with regard to the detection of local problems in healthcare.”

I join others in pleading guilty: sometimes we can be too defensive of our local institutions, and sometimes we need to dig deeper into particular issues and complaints. It is important, as I have said, that everyone considers the report, and that is one for all of us.

[Julian Smith (Skipton and Ripon) (Con)]

As part of the Government’s response to the report, may I urge the Prime Minister to look at the use of compromise agreements and gagging clauses when NHS managers leave the organisation?

[The Prime Minister]

I certainly think Health Ministers should look at what my hon. Friend says. One of the outcomes should be a discussion about what sort of contracts are appropriate for board members, both for their service in the NHS and if anything goes wrong.

[Sarah Champion (Rotherham) (Lab)]

I would like to speak from my recent experience of being a chief exec of a children’s hospice. The CQC is a very good organisation, but in my own area, each officer is responsible for up to 40 organisations, so the attention they can give each one is not that much. I was pleased that the leaders of both parties have said that they would support more funding for the CQC and support strengthening it.

All nurses have to register with the Nursing and Midwifery Council, which is a disciplinary body, but it can take up to 18 months for the disciplinary process to go through. The NMC is the investigator, the judge and the jury. I am supportive of the Royal College of Nursing, which genuinely seems to be trying to help and support its nursing staff to give better care. It is prioritising care but, again, it is under-resourced.

To try to end on a positive, I urge the Prime Minister to look at examples of good practice. Rotherham Doncaster and South Humber NHS Foundation Trust has an exemplary service of putting patients first. It has 12,000 members who select a governing body, and the board is responsible to that governing body. It seems that one of the problems with Mid Staffordshire was that the public were not right at the heart of the organisation.

[The Prime Minister]

I am sure the hon. Lady is right, and I agree that there are many examples of excellent practice, not only in health care and patient care but in responding to complaints and involving the local public; I see that across the country.

I have just read out what the report says about MPs, and this is what it says about the Royal College of Nursing:

“At Stafford, the RCN was ineffective both as a professional representative organisation and as a trade union. Little was done to uphold professional standards among nursing staff or to address concerns and problems being faced by its members.”

That is uncomfortable for the RCN to read, just as it is uncomfortable for us to read what it says about MPs, but it must be acted on. Likewise, the Care Quality Commission is improving, but more work needs to be done. Francis is pretty excoriating, and says on page 931 of volume 2:

“The CQC has an unhealthy culture, in which senior managers are more concerned about public image than delivery, which is hostile to internal and external criticism, and in which staff feel under pressure and unsupported.”

There is real work to be done in all these organisations to get this right.

[Charlotte Leslie (Bristol North West) (Con)]

“Systems so perfect that no one will need to be good.” That is T. S. Eliot, but it is a slightly pithier version of many recommendations in the Francis report. Does the Prime Minister agree that it is a tragedy that it has taken a tragedy to produce the report? My dad, as president of the British Orthopaedic Association in 2006, gave a lecture entitled “A New Professionalism” to reflect the alarm of clinicians at the changing culture in the 2000s, with a burgeoning management system and management priorities, tick boxes and targets taking precedence over clinical priorities. The Prime Minister has acknowledged that systems cannot replace professionalism, but will he listen to current professionals, who say that professionalism, which is what keeps the NHS afloat, is being eroded by things such as the working time directive?

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend packed a lot into her question, but I agree that we need greater clinical leadership across the system. When we look at Francis carefully, what he is saying is that things such as targets and better financial management were important. We cannot have an organisation such as a hospital, which is a multi-million-pound organisation with thousands of staff, without proper management, proper finances and the rest of it. We have to make sure that there is proper clinical leadership, and that the focus is on care and quality, as her father said.

[Helen Jones (Warrington North) (Lab)]

Does the Prime Minister agree that what happened at Mid Staffs was not just a failure of regulation but a failure of basic humanity? Apart from a few whistleblowers, ward sisters, nurses, doctors and consultants must have seen what was happening on those wards day after day, and did nothing, although their professional duty obliged them to speak up for their patients. Will he therefore look at any issues that need to be addressed in the regulatory bodies to enable such failures among staff to be tackled, because people who do that should not be working in the NHS?

[The Prime Minister]

The hon. Lady speaks for everyone in saying that, which is why all these organisations, including the Nursing and Midwifery Council, the Royal College of Nursing and the General Medical Council have to think about taking action when behaviour is not appropriate or professional codes are seriously breached. People should be struck off and should not be able to work again.

[Chris Skidmore (Kingswood) (Con)]

Page 1312 of volume 2 of the report describes a meeting that took place on 14 May 2008 between the chair of the Healthcare Commission investigation, Sir Ian Kennedy, and Sir David Nicolson before the investigation reported. In that meeting, the report states that Sir David Nicholson said that a local campaign group against Mid Staffordshire had been in existence for some time. He added:

“Clearly patients needed to express their views but he hoped the Healthcare Commission would remain alive to something which was simply lobbying or a campaign as”

opposed

“to widespread concern.”

I find those comments from the head of the NHS at the time utterly unacceptable. Does my right hon. Friend agree, and will he investigate Sir David Nicholson’s comments?

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend is right to raise that issue. We should be clear, however, that David Nicholson has apologised publicly and repeatedly for the failure of the strategic health authority of which he was in charge for some important months during this whole approach.

The report makes it clear that we should not try to seek individual scapegoats, and I believe that Sir Robert Francis said this morning that too often that is what happens after a report is published: find someone to take responsibility, fire them out the barrel of the gun, then the job is done. That is not the case: in my view, David Nicholson has a deep affection for our national health service, does a good job on the NHS Commissioning Board, and he has thoroughly apologised and recognised his responsibilities for what went wrong in Stafford. The trust board was overwhelmingly responsible. Clearly all the other organisations, including the strategic health authority, need to learn the lessons, and I think that Sir David Nicholson has done so.

[Mr David Anderson (Blaydon) (Lab)]

Speaking as a former care worker and president of Unison, which is the biggest trade union representing people in health and social care, I am convinced that members of that union and other health workers will welcome the commitment today on developing a culture of zero harm and quality care as the priority, and they will not be frightened of a new inspections regime. However, unless we have a system alongside that which makes sure they have time to do the job and spend time with patients, as well as the resources, both physical and financial, to make that work properly, unfortunately we will have this debate again about another situation in a decade’s time?

[The Prime Minister]

The hon. Gentleman makes an important point. Clearly, a health service facing growing demands requires growing resources. We are growing those resources, but they are limited, so at the same time we must meet the challenge of increasing productivity and cutting waste in our NHS, which we are doing. I do not believe that that should impact on patient care. Every public sector body has to look at how it can become more productive and efficient, but that must not be at the expense of patient care, and that is important for the future.

[Dr Sarah Wollaston (Totnes) (Con)]

I join the Prime Minister in paying tribute to all those NHS staff who go to work with great care, compassion and vocation, but will he look in particular at one staff group—health care assistants, who deliver much of the day-to-day personal care in the NHS, yet have relatively poor access to training and development? They have no regulatory body, so if individuals are not acting with care and compassion, they can move on to another institution, and perhaps work unprofessionally there too.

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend speaks with great knowledge about the NHS, with her long years of experience as a GP. On health care assistants, the Government have said that Robert Francis’s idea of proper training standards needs to be looked at. I tend to agree with that. The issue of registration is more complicated and potentially more bureaucratic. We will certainly look at it, but I think that needs some close examination.

[Nic Dakin (Scunthorpe) (Lab)]

Hospitals do not exist in isolation. Will Professor Sir Bruce Keogh’s immediate investigation into the care in hospitals with the highest mortality rates look at the role of primary, adult and community care in relation to those mortality rates, and the relationship between them?

[The Prime Minister]

Yes, I am sure he will do that. These things do not exist in isolation, but I hope we can do such investigations in a more frank way, because we do not want to fall into the culture of complacency or, as Francis says, into seeing the responsibility for quality as lying somewhere else.

[Henry Smith (Crawley) (Con)]

With increasing local clinician influence and with the increasing influence of local councillors and local patients over the commissioning of health services, what is my right hon. Friend’s assessment of how we can increase that culture of care in our local NHS settings?

[The Prime Minister]

There is everything that Francis says in his report about the importance of quality and a culture change. Under the new dispensation in the NHS and with GPs having a more leading role, I hope they will be very inquiring about the standards of care that their patients get when they go to hospital. In the past there was too much division between primary and secondary care. I hope that we are bringing them closer together.

[Steve McCabe (Birmingham, Selly Oak) (Lab)]

I thank the Prime Minister for his statement. Reports received by trust directors, governors and others are packed full of data, but in order for people to make sense of that information so that aggregate data in big organisations do not serve to mask problems, rather than shed light on them, do not trusts also have a duty to help people analyse those data?

--- Later in debate ---

[The Prime Minister]

Yes, the hon. Gentleman is entirely right. That is why the role of chief inspector of hospitals could be so important. There is no shortage of data, as the hon. Gentleman says. Francis says:

“There . . . are a plethora of agencies, scrutiny groups, commissioners, regulators and professional bodies, all of whom might have been expected by patients and the public to detect and do something effective”,

but it did not occur. We need to make sure that there is one single body that has the power, the ability and the judgment to say good practice/bad practice.

[Sarah Newton (Truro and Falmouth) (Con)]

Will the Prime Minister join me in praising the brave staff in the community and in the hospitals in Cornwall who have been speaking out about poor quality patient care, and reassure me and them that the Care Quality Commission will have the resources to make sure that quality care will be delivered in hospitals, in communities and in social care settings throughout the UK?

[The Prime Minister]

I certainly join my hon. Friend in paying tribute to health care professionals in Cornwall. I am particularly grateful to them, as they delivered my daughter two and a half years ago. I am ever grateful for the brilliant service that they performed for me, and it was a very caring environment too. The CQC has the resources it needs. It is a new organisation and has faced many challenges. A big reform of it is under way. Being asked to scrutinise everything from the dentist’s waiting room to the largest hospital in the land is challenging, and we need to work on the organisation and make sure that it can deliver what we need.

[Mark Durkan (Foyle) (SDLP)]

I commend the Prime Minister for his words and work on the issue. In the culture that he seeks, it is important that hospital chaplains and chaplaincy networks know what observer standing they might have and how and where they should channel any pastoral concerns or compliments that they have. On his important proposal for the chief inspector of hospitals, can the Prime Minister tell us whether that telling new faculty would be available to the devolved hospital services as well?

[The Prime Minister]

The hon. Gentleman makes an important point about the role of chaplains. If those who are closely involved with hospitals see anything going wrong, they should feel a duty to speak out. That could be groups of hospital friends or chaplains. With reference to the devolved Administrations, I expect there are similar issues in terms of culture, which Francis examines, and in terms of complacency and putting patient care above targets, and I am sure that they, too, will want to learn the lessons from the report.

[Jackie Doyle-Price (Thurrock) (Con)]

To tackle the culture of complacency that my right hon. Friend spoke about, will he take this opportunity to give a clear and unequivocal message to the board members of foundation trusts throughout the country that they are accountable for the performance of their hospitals and that if there is persistent poor care, the buck stops with them?

[The Prime Minister]

I am very happy to do that and to clarify that they are responsible for standards of care, clinical safety and the cleanliness of hospitals, as well as for meeting financial and other targets, and the buck does stop with them.

[Bob Blackman (Harrow East) (Con)]

Thousands of people outside the Chamber will be worried about what is going on in their own local hospital: could the same things be going on there? Part of that problem would be the willingness of NHS staff to make the best of a bad job. Does my right hon. Friend agree that as part of the cultural change, it is important that staff say, “We will not put up with poor standards,” and that as part and parcel of that, board management specifically must enforce the highest standards of patient care?

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend makes an important point. There is lots of fantastic practice in our NHS right across the country, but there are problems. That is why I am so passionate about the friends and family test. I saw this in the hospital in Salford, where people are so proud of the fact that they ask the staff, the patients, everybody, “Would you have your friends and family treated in this hospital?” They put it up on the front of the door of the hospital and it is on every single ward. Of course there is no one magic bullet answer to the whole problem, but if there is a problem in a hospital or on a specific ward, it would be picked up quite quickly if there was that sort of very open and publicly available test.

[Mr Marcus Jones (Nuneaton) (Con)]

Can my right hon. Friend assure me that in implementing the recommendations of the report, he will seek to break down the culture of some in the NHS who close ranks to close down complaints, rather than dealing with them in a proper, open and transparent fashion, so that they and the rest of the NHS can learn from any failure that has taken place?

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. There has been a sense sometimes that when problems occur, there can be a closing of ranks. This clearly happened at Stafford. It is not acceptable and I am sure all hospital trusts will want to learn the lessons from that.

[Penny Mordaunt (Portsmouth North) (Con)]

I welcome the greater focus on care as well as finance in assessing performance that the Prime Minister has outlined. Does he agree that this will be welcomed by clinicians throughout the country, who have fantastic ideas about improving care and getting more from their budgets, but currently cannot get the management to listen to them?

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend makes an important point. One of the aims of the reforms is to give greater clinical leadership. With greater clinical leadership, particularly in the commissioning groups, which are the ones tasking the hospitals, there is a much greater chance that what she talks about will happen.

[Andrew Bridgen (North West Leicestershire) (Con)]

A legal duty of candour would have ensured that the serious and systemic failures at Mid Staffordshire hospital came to light far earlier and ultimately would have saved many lives. On that topic, what reassurance can my right hon. Friend give to my constituents, Frank and Janet Robinson, who tragically and needlessly lost their only son, John Moore-Robinson, at that hospital?

[The Prime Minister]

It is right for my hon. Friend to speak out for the victims and to raise a specific case. The Health Ministers here with me today will look carefully at the issue of a duty of candour to see whether that would make a difference in the way that we want for this hospital and for others as well.

[John Pugh (Southport) (LD)]

One of the clear causes of the tragedy, according to Francis, is a

“failure to appreciate…the…disruptive loss of corporate memory and focus resulting from repeated, multi-level reorganisation.”

What lessons does the Prime Minister draw from this about NHS reorganisations?

[The Prime Minister]

The hon. Gentleman makes an important point. What Francis says is:

“A failure to appreciate until recently the risk of disruptive loss of corporate memory and focus resulting from repeated, multi-level reorganisation.”

He also says, though, that he thinks the changes required

“can largely be implemented within the system that has now been created by the new reforms”,

so I hope we can allow the changes that Francis is talking about to be made within the proposed structure. Everyone—all parties, all Governments—should learn from this report. I hope we can then allow the structure to bed down and to deliver the changes that everybody wants.

[Andrew Jones (Harrogate and Knaresborough) (Con)]

My right hon. Friend’s statement was hard listening for those of us who care about the NHS and respect and value the work of the vast majority of those within it. Changing a culture of targets and a focus on process is an enormous task. Does he agree that one of the ways to improve care is to unlock the innate compassion of those who work in our NHS and our caring professions?

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. I remember going to the Royal College of Nursing conference at Harrogate in his constituency. Ministers are not saying this to nurses; nurses are saying to Ministers that, as they told me, they want to have this sense of compassion and vocation at the heart of their training. Nurses themselves think that some of the training systems have got too far into the classroom and too far away from the hospital ward, and they are the ones asking us to get that right. It is good to see Health Ministers nodding in agreement as I say that.

[Iain Stewart (Milton Keynes South) (Con)]

I welcome the proposals for the CQC to make public judgments about the quality of care, but those judgments must be in a form that is accessible and understandable to the public. Will my right hon. Friend take care to ensure that they are not too general, so that if a specific problem in our wards is rightly identified, it does not cloud the otherwise excellent care that the hospital might be providing?

--- Later in debate ---

[The Prime Minister]

Yes, my hon. Friend makes a very important point. If we are going to challenge complacency and have more frankness and openness about potential failure, we also need to have the more grown-up attitude that failure in one part of one hospital does not necessarily mean that the other parts are failing.

[Gavin Barwell (Croydon Central) (Con)]

Like the Prime Minister, I have a personal debt to the NHS: it saved my life when I had cancer as a child. As a constituency MP, I regularly deal with concerns about the quality of care at Croydon University hospital. With that in mind, I warmly welcome the Prime Minister’s statement, particularly his focus on the key measure of how well a hospital is serving its community—that is, the proportion of people working there who would be happy for a family member to be treated there.

[The Prime Minister]

I am grateful for what my hon. Friend says. I am not claiming that the friends and family test is the only change that needs to happen in the NHS, but if we are looking for something that will provide a pretty effective traffic light, then having that test, and having its results plastered over every ward in every hospital in the country, will be a pretty good start. The chilling statistic that only a quarter of staff members at Stafford would have been happy for their relatives to be treated in the hospital that they themselves worked in should have been the moment—publicised on every ward, in the local newspaper, and on the door of the hospital—when everyone said, “Hold on a minute: we’ve got to take some action here.”

[Andrew Percy (Brigg and Goole) (Con)]

My right hon. Friend compared the new inspection regime to that in schools. However, is not the challenge that whereas in schools service users—pupils and parents—are all too willing to speak up, in hospitals service users often feel that they are a burden to the service or are voiceless? Will he therefore ensure that any new inspection regime measures what protocols are in place specifically to monitor the care of patients who have nobody to speak for them?

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend, who has great experience of being at the sharp end of inspections in schools, speaks with great knowledge and expertise. Because patients in hospitals often do not want to say anything bad about the hospital while they are in it, it is important for them that the friends and family test is carried out once they get home. I have listened carefully to his point about carers and others.

[Mr Speaker]

I am most grateful to the Prime Minister and to colleagues. I think that everything has now been said and, indeed, that it has been said by everybody.

Communications Data (Intelligence and Security Agencies)

Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton Excerpts

Tuesday 5th February 2013 Written Statements

[The Prime Minister (Mr David Cameron)]

I am grateful to the Intelligence and Security Committee for its valuable work and its latest report, entitled “Access to communications data by the intelligence and security Agencies” (Cm 8514). Following consultation with the Committee over matters that could not be published without prejudicing the work of the intelligence and security agencies, I have today laid the report before the House.

Copies of the report have been placed in the Libraries of both Houses.

Algeria

Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton Excerpts

Monday 21st January 2013 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister (Mr David Cameron)]

With permission, Mr Speaker, I would like to update the House on the despicable terrorist attack in Algeria and the tragic events of the last few days. It is with great sadness that I have to confirm that we now know three British nationals have been killed, and that a further three are believed to be dead, as is a Colombian national who was resident in Britain. I am sure the whole House will join me in sending our deepest condolences to the families and friends of all those who have lost loved ones.

First, let me update the House on developments over the weekend and the steps we have taken to get survivors home, and then I will begin to set out how I believe we will work with our allies to overcome the terrorist scourge in this region. The Algerian Prime Minister told me on Saturday afternoon that the Algerian military had completed its offensive and that the terrorist incident was over. Since then, Algerian forces have undertaken a further operation to clear the site of potential explosives and booby traps. This is still being completed, and it will allow our embassy-led team to access the site.

It is important to put on record the scale of what happened. There is still some uncertainty about the precise facts, but we believe that, in total, there were some 800 employees working at the In Amenas site at the time of the attack, about 135 of whom were foreign nationals. Over 40 were taken hostage, and at least 12 were killed, with at least a further 20 unaccounted for and feared dead. The Algerian Prime Minister has said today that he believes 37 foreign hostages were killed. The number of terrorists was over 30. Most were killed during the incident but a small number are in Algerian custody.

Our immediate priorities have been the safety of the British nationals involved, the evacuation of the wounded and freed hostages, and the repatriation of those who have tragically been killed. Working closely with BP, and side by side with our US, Japanese and Norwegian partners, a swift international evacuation effort has been completed. The last British flights out on Saturday night brought not only the remaining freed Britons, but Germans, Americans, New Zealanders, Croats, Romanians and Portuguese.

As of yesterday, all 22 British nationals caught up in the attack, who either escaped or were freed, had been safely returned to Britain, to be debriefed by the police and of course reunited with their families. Now, our most vital work is bringing home those who died. An international team of British, American and Norwegian experts is in close co-operation with the Algerian Ministry of Justice undertaking the task of formally identifying their bodies. We want this process to happen as swiftly as possible, but it will involve some intensive forensic and policing work, and so may take some time.

Throughout the last five days, the British ambassador to Algeria and staff from across the Government and beyond have been working around the clock to support British citizens and their families, and I am sure the House would like to join me in thanking them for their efforts.

We should also recognise all that the Algerians have done to confront this dreadful attack. I am sure the House will understand the challenges that Algeria faced in dealing with over 30 terrorists bent on killing innocent people in a large, extremely remote and dangerous industrial complex. This would have been a most demanding task for security forces anywhere in the world, and we should acknowledge the resolve shown by the Algerians in undertaking it. Above all, the responsibility for these deaths lies squarely with the terrorists.

Many questions remain about this whole incident, but one thing is clear: this attack underlines the threat that terrorist groups pose to the countries and peoples of that region, and to our citizens, our companies and our interests. Four years ago, the principal threat from Islamist extremism came from the Afghanistan and Pakistan region. A huge amount has been done to address and reduce the scale of that threat. Whereas at one point three quarters of the most serious terrorist plots against the UK had links to that region, today that has reduced to less than half, but at the same time al-Qaeda franchises have grown in Yemen, Somalia and parts of north Africa.

The changing nature of the threat we face was highlighted in our national security strategy in 2010 and shaped the decisions we made. Although there were difficult decisions to make, we increased our investment in our special forces, cyber-security and key intelligence capabilities, while also increasing our investment in fragile and broken states.

In north Africa—as in Somalia—terrorist activity has been fuelled by hostage ransoms and wider criminality. To date, the threat it poses has been to these north African states themselves and, of course, as I have said, to western interests in those states, but as it escalates, it is becoming a magnet for jihadists from other countries who share this poisonous ideology. Indeed, there are already reports of non-Algerian nationals involved in this attack.

More than ever, the evolving threat demands an international response. It must be one that is tough, intelligent, patient and based on strong international partnerships. First, we should be clear that this murderous violence requires a strong security response. We must be realistic and hard-headed about the threats we face. Our role is to support the Governments of the region in their resolve to combat this menace, as many are doing at a high cost. We will therefore work closely with the Algerian Government to learn the lessons of this attack, and to deepen our security co-operation, and we will contribute British intelligence and counter-terrorism assets to an international effort to find and dismantle the network that planned and ordered the brutal assault at In Amenas.

We must work right across the region. In Nigeria, we will continue our close security partnership with the Government there as they confront Islamist-inspired terrorism. In Libya, we will continue to support the new Government on the urgent priority of building new and effective security forces. In Mali, we will work with the Malians themselves, with their neighbours and with our international allies, to prevent a new terrorist haven developing on Europe’s doorstep.

We support the French intervention that took place at the request of the Malian Government, and we are working to ensure that an African-led military force can—with the appropriate training and support—help to ensure Mali’s long-term stability. That support will include the EU training mission that was agreed by EU Foreign Ministers in Brussels last week.

Secondly, our tough security response must be matched by an intelligent political response. Al-Qaeda franchises thrive where there are weak political institutions, political instability and a failure to address long-standing political grievances, so we need a political approach that addresses these issues. We must support effective and accountable government, back people in their search for a job and a voice, and work with the UN and our international partners to solve long-standing political conflicts and grievances.

Thirdly, we must be patient and resolute. Together with our partners in the region, we are in the midst of a generational struggle against an ideology which is an extreme distortion of the Islamic faith, and which holds that mass murder and terror are not only acceptable but necessary. We must tackle this poisonous thinking at home and abroad, and resist the ideologues’ attempt to divide the world into a clash of civilisations.

The underlying conflicts and grievances that are exploited by terrorists are in many cases long standing and deep, and, of course, the building blocks of democracy—the rule of law and the independence of the judiciary, the rights of minorities, free media and association, and a proper place in society for the army—which are a big part of the solution, all take a long time to put in place. But this patient, intelligent but tough approach is the best way to defeat terrorism and to ensure our own security. We must pursue it with an iron resolve.

I will use our chairmanship of the G8 this year to make sure this issue of terrorism, and how we respond to it, is right at the top of the agenda, where it belongs. In sum, we must frustrate the terrorists with our security, we must beat them militarily, we must address the poisonous narrative they feed on, we must close down the ungoverned space in which they thrive, and we must deal with the grievances that they use to garner support. This is the work that our generation faces, and we must demonstrate the same resolve and sense of purpose as previous generations did with the challenges that they faced in this House and in this country. I commend this statement to the House.

[Edward Miliband (Doncaster North) (Lab)]

I join the Prime Minister in expressing my deepest sympathy and condolences to the families who lost loved ones in last week’s terrorist attack. For them, and for all those involved, the past six days have been an unimaginable nightmare. The whole country has been shocked as the horrific details of this unprovoked and violent act of terror have emerged. This was pre-meditated, cold-blooded murder of the most brutal kind, and behind each lost life is a family of loved ones who are in our thoughts today.

I echo the Prime Minister’s unequivocal condemnation of those involved in planning and carrying out this attack. It is they who bear full responsibility for the dreadful loss of life, and every effort must now be made to bring them to justice. We on this side of the House will give the Government our full support as they seek to achieve that. We will also give them our support as they consider how best to respond to the growing threat that al-Qaeda in the Islamic Maghreb and other violent extremist groups pose.

In particular, the task is to understand the nature of the new threat, which is more decentralised and fragmented and takes advantage of the ungoverned spaces and security vacuum in parts of north Africa. At the same time, in its response the international community needs to apply the lessons of the past about the combination of diplomacy, politics and security required to help to bring about stability in the region.

On the attack itself, people will agree with the Prime Minister that the Algerian Government was faced with some extremely difficult judgments about how and when to act. I join him in paying tribute to all our embassy staff for the work that they did. In the light of the attack, can the Prime Minister say more about the work that the British Government are doing with British companies operating in the region? Can he tell us whether, at this early stage, any lessons can be learned about the security of those installations?

Turning to the broader context of what is happening in the region, on Mali we support the Government’s actions to date. Can the Prime Minister confirm that he does not envisage a combat role for British troops? We agree that the efforts of the French military must be supplemented by the much more rapid deployment of west African forces, as the Prime Minister said in his statement. Can he tell us by what means, and in what time scale, he expects that to be achieved?

After last year’s coup, the Mali Government face a security and legitimacy crisis. Can the Prime Minister tell us what further steps can be taken by the international community and Governments to use diplomacy and development to stabilise the situation in Mali and, in particular, which international body will co-ordinate that urgent work?

More broadly across the region, countering the emerging threat of terrorism begins with understanding it and talking about it in the right way. The work to deal with that threat will be painstaking: diplomatic and political as much as military; and collaborative and multilateral, not unilateral. Does the Prime Minister agree that we are talking about a number of distinct regional organisations, some using the banner of al-Qaeda and others not, rather than a single, centrally co-ordinated or controlled group? Each of these threats needs to be monitored and countered appropriately. Will he outline what further steps might be taken—he talked about some in his statement—to improve the flow of information and intelligence from the region, and whether it needs to be better shared with key allies?

As the Prime Minister said, we know that these threats grow where governance is weak. What longer term roles does he anticipate for the African Union and the Economic Community of West African States in securing greater stability in the region, and how does he believe that the EU will support that effort? On the question of ready access to arms, can the Prime Minister set out how the international community can better prevent the spread of weaponry throughout the region, including weapons left over from the Libyan conflict?

Finally, does he agree with me that if we are to meet the challenges we face, we need a much greater focus of our diplomatic development and political resources on this region? We should remember the events of the Arab spring, which demonstrated the desire of people across north Africa to improve their lives through peaceful means, not through violence and terror. We should support their cause.

Today, above all, we mourn the victims of this terrorist attack. We grieve with the families of those who died. We stand united in seeking to bring the perpetrators to justice, and to doing everything we can to protect British citizens working and living around the world.

[The Prime Minister]

I thank the right hon. Gentleman for his response. I think there is genuine cross-party agreement, not just on our response to this dreadful event but about the thinking that needs to be done on how to tackle these problems in the future, and I welcome what he has said. He is right to say this was premeditated murder, and he is right to say we need to understand the nature of the threat and learn the lessons of the past.

Turning to his individual questions, on the British Government’s work with the companies involved, all the major companies have been contacted across the region. All of them have put in place procedures for heightened security. Crucially, we have asked all of them to update their consular information. When these events happen, one of the first things that needs to be done is to try to be absolutely clear about who is employed, who is contracted, and who is in the country and who is not.

I can assure the right hon. Gentleman that we are not seeking a combat role in Mali. We believe that we should be supporting the French, who have taken emergency action to stop Mali being overtaken by what is effectively an al-Qaeda-backed group of rebels. Our help for the French will be discussed again at the National Security Council tomorrow. We have lent them two C-17s. We propose to continue with that, and will be looking at other transport and surveillance assets that we can let the French use to help them in what they are doing.

The right hon. Gentleman is right to say that the answer on the security front is to train up African soldiers, and that they should play the lead role. Some African soldiers are already in Mali from west African states, and others will be arriving soon. On who should have the co-ordinating role, ECOWAS has been encouraged to take the lead, and there is also the backing of a UN resolution that was secured before Christmas.

The right hon. Gentleman is also correct to say that what we are dealing with are distinct organisations in different countries, some of them more connected to al-Qaeda than others. I think that we need to make sure that we deal with each one individually, while recognising that there are some commonalities. We are trying to break up these problems and deal with them individually, rather than pose one global response to the challenge. As I tried to say in my statement, we need to show patience and intelligence as well as toughness and resolution.

In terms of what the Government need to do to step up our contacts with the region, the point was well made. We have had National Security Council discussions on the Sahel and I have appointed my hon. Friend the Member for Eddisbury (Mr O'Brien) as my envoy to the region. There is obviously a huge amount of French influence on the region and we have been less well represented. I do not want us to try to track or double up with other allies on this, but we should be working together, and that is what we are focused on.

In terms of the African Union and ECOWAS, we should be helping to build their capacity for the future. The right hon. Gentleman was also right to raise the point about Libyan weapons. The British Government have stepped up our engagement with Libya at all levels to help with the challenge of security and removing so many weapons from their society. In terms of what he said about stepping up our development, diplomatic and other resources in the region, that is very much something we need to consider.

Finally, I think that the right hon. Gentleman’s point about the Arab spring being a long-term benefit for the region, despite the difficulties that the move to democracy can sometimes engender, is correct. I think it is wrong to believe that vicious, dictatorial regimes such as Gaddafi’s somehow made our world safer; they did not. That is not just in terms of people living in Lockerbie, because we still have the problems of Gaddafi-supplied Semtex in Northern Ireland and all the terrorism that was engendered by his regime.

[Sir Malcolm Rifkind (Kensington) (Con)]

May I pay tribute to the Prime Minister for the sober and realistic way in which he has treated this crisis and for his strategy for the future? I suggest that the strategy needs two essential ingredients. First, we must work with the natural leaders of north Africa and west Africa. Nigeria, which he mentioned, and Algeria not only will be decisive in this crisis, but share a common interest in defeating international terrorism. Secondly, does he agree that we need to work to isolate the jihadi terrorists from the other insurgents in Mali and other countries who have local grievances? That suggests the need for a political strategy, not merely a military one.

[The Prime Minister]

My right hon. and learned Friend sets out extremely well the twin aims of working with African leaders and isolating the terrorists. If we look at the case of Somalia, which is a badly broken and fractured state that is trying to recover from years of civil war, terrorism and other abuses, we will see that the international community is demonstrating working with African leaders and trying to disengage terrorists from other organisations. That is the way forward to try patiently to rebuild those countries.

[Mrs Louise Ellman (Liverpool, Riverside) (Lab/Co-op)]

Two dedicated Liverpool men, Paul Morgan and Garry Barlow, have now died at the hands of terrorists in Algeria. I would like to thank the Foreign Office for the work it has done to assist the families. What immediate steps can the Prime Minister take to try to deal with this horrendous situation and to try to reduce the apprehension felt by so many families, in Liverpool and across the country, who have loved ones working away in vulnerable areas?

[The Prime Minister]

The hon. Lady speaks for everyone in raising the case of those two men from Liverpool who lost their lives. They were working abroad, trying to earn a good living for themselves and their families. There are many British people who do that in difficult and dangerous parts of the world, and I believe that it is part of the British Government’s job to work with foreign Governments to make sure that we defend the interests of people such as those she mentions. That is why we are getting in contact with the large businesses and thickening our contacts with all those Governments. I think that it is vital that we do everything we can with those Governments, who have to have the primary responsibility, to keep our people safe.

[Sir Menzies Campbell (North East Fife) (LD)]

My right hon. Friend’s agenda lacks nothing in ambition, but ambition needs to be supported by adequate resources. Can we be satisfied, in this period of financial austerity, that the intelligence services and the armed services will have adequate financial resources to meet the substantial elements that he has wished upon them?

[The Prime Minister]

My right hon. and learned Friend makes a very good point. Of course, there are always challenges over the level of resources, even in times when money is plentiful—and it is not plentiful today. I would say, though, that our defence budget, for instance, is stable in cash terms at £33 billion. We have tried as a Government—perhaps we need to look again and go even further—to focus on those threats to our security that we face today: an investment in key intelligence capabilities and greater investment in special forces, cyber-security and the things that will have the maximum impact in keeping our people safe. We therefore have to make changes in other parts of our armed services to make possible this vital investment for the future.

[Mr Peter Hain (Neath) (Lab)]

I welcome the priority the Prime Minister has given this matter and the tone of his statement, especially his focus on the political and not simply the security. To add to the question that has just been put to him, the truth is that our diplomatic capacity in that region has been cut, not simply under his Government but, sadly, under our Government too. Will he look at that capacity? It is not simply about our diplomatic capabilities, but about our related ones. Unless we focus resources on where the threats are—and that means the Foreign Office’s budget not being continuously chopped, as it has been in recent years—we will not be able to deliver.

[The Prime Minister]

I will look very closely—it is absolutely right to look closely—at what diplomatic resources we have in that part of the world. I would simply make two points. One is that the Foreign Office actually got a reasonably generous settlement in terms of public spending and has been opening embassies in parts of the world where there are really important economic priorities for Britain, particularly in south-east Asia. The second point is that when we look at west Africa, we should be very much thinking about how we will work with our partners—I have already had this conversation with President Hollande and President Obama. We have particularly strong ties with countries such as Nigeria; France has particularly strong ties with countries such as Mali. It does not make sense for us all to double up in the same places but, working together, we need to ensure that our coverage is very good.

[Dr Liam Fox (North Somerset) (Con)]

Al-Qaeda represents both a mindset and a physical capability. Does my right hon. Friend agree that, as well as an uncompromising security response, there is a particular responsibility on the leaders in the Islamic world, both religious and political, to make it very clear that the sort of barbaric acts we saw in Algeria are incompatible with Islam, and that that message needs to be made crystal clear abroad and in the United Kingdom?

[The Prime Minister]

My right hon. Friend makes a very important point. Just as we have to isolate and defeat this sort of terrorism in a security and military sense, we need to isolate and defeat the poisonous ideology on which it feeds; and that requires, as he says, Muslim leaders and faith leaders—and, indeed, leaders of Muslim-majority countries—to condemn it in very strong terms. I have been very struck over the last year that the Prime Minister of Malaysia and the President of Indonesia, along with a number of countries, have made the strongest possible statements about how Islam is completely incompatible with this sort of taking of life, and we need to hear that a lot more in the future.

[Mr Bob Ainsworth (Coventry North East) (Lab)]

The Prime Minister is right to use this tragedy to make people aware of the growing threat from the region. He is also right to say that the best response is a regional-led response, but do we have the capacity to have a proper input across the range in this area? The Foreign Office’s headline cuts were a lot bigger once the responsibilities for the BBC had been transferred. We need a diplomatic, political, security and developmental response to this kind of situation if the threat is to be removed, which can only happen over time.

[The Prime Minister]

The right hon. Gentleman asks a central question. I would say yes, there is the capacity, for two good reasons. First, I believe we are more effectively co-ordinating what we have. The National Security Council means that we have the Development Secretary, the Home Secretary, the Foreign Secretary and the Defence Secretary, with their budgets, sitting round the table, which makes it more possible to use that money—including through the conflict pool—to come to terms with the challenges we face. Secondly, we have taken some difficult decisions on defence, but as a result we have reduced the amount of unfunded commitments and our budget is now, as it were, in balance for the future. We can afford the very important capabilities that include heavy lift—vital for the sorts of things we are doing with the French—air-to-air refuelling and those sorts of capacities, which will be so important for the future.

[Mr Andrew Mitchell (Sutton Coldfield) (Con)]

Does my right hon. Friend agree that the terrible events in Algeria underline the critical importance for the international community of tackling the root causes of poverty, instability and conflict in west Africa? Britain has been doing that in east Africa, not least in Somalia, where some progress seems at last to have been made.

[The Prime Minister]

My right hon. Friend is entirely right to say that the work we do to address those root causes will be vital not only for those countries but for our long-term security. One of the excellent things that he did as Secretary of State for International Development was to focus more of our money on conflict and on broken states, because it is there that the investment can make the biggest difference. No one would argue that Somalia was somehow a model case, but it seems that the work we are doing with international partners, using our aid budget and working with the new Somali Government, is helping patiently to mend that country in a way that does not involve military intervention by us.

[Angus Robertson (Moray) (SNP)]

Stabilisation and security in the region are set to be supported by a European Union training mission, although that will not be in place in Mali until mid-February. There are plans for 250 trainers and 200 close protection personnel, but it is already being suggested that those numbers are insufficient. Does the Prime Minister believe them to be sufficient? What contribution will the UK be making to the training mission?

[The Prime Minister]

The point about an EU training mission is that it would be part of the process of training up the west African troops who want to play a part in stabilising and securing Mali. The total size of the mission would perhaps be around 500 personnel, and if there were a British contribution to it, it would be in the tens, not in the hundreds. It is a training mission, not a combat mission. The lead on this will clearly be taken by the French, who have the greatest interest in rapidly training up west African forces to replace the French forces that are currently in action in Mali.

[Nicholas Soames (Mid Sussex) (Con)]

Given that the instability in north Africa is going to last for a very long time, does my right hon. Friend agree that the commitments required from this country, our European partners and others will be very considerable indeed? Given Britain’s fine record on the training of defence forces, does he also agree that our Army will have a major role to play in training African troops, and that we will be able to be of real help to them?

[The Prime Minister]

My right hon. Friend makes an important point. If we look at the capabilities that we have that will make the biggest difference in that area, we see that training is clearly one of them, alongside counter-terrorism, ISTAR—intelligence, surveillance, target acquisition and reconnaissance—and other assets that we have. We also have training assets in this country. We should be using our training academies not only to train our own military but as a way of building relationships with other militaries around the world, as that would help us in circumstances such as those that we face today.

[Mr David Winnick (Walsall North) (Lab)]

Western powers cannot stand aside, particularly when our own nationals are so tragically involved, but does the Prime Minister accept that the defeat of these terrorist and murder gangs in north Africa and elsewhere will largely depend on the attitude of the people involved, and certainly not on military action from outside? We must bear in mind that the Taliban will still be around in Afghanistan after 11 years of western military action there.

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[The Prime Minister]

I agree with the hon. Gentleman that the key will be the peoples of those countries rejecting Islamic extremism and violence and opting instead for having a job and a voice in a secure country. He is right about that, but, as we were discussing earlier, one of the roles that we can play is in recognising that we have to try to split the terrorist groups from the other groups with which they can become affiliated. In the case of Mali, for example, there is a combination of terrorist groups and Tuareg tribes. We should be trying to split up those alliances, rather than reinforcing them through our actions. I do not accept that the right thing to do is in any way to turn our back on the world. Britain is an open, engaged country and our interests are threatened in those countries. The idea that if we did less or did nothing we would somehow be safer is wrong.

[Richard Ottaway (Croydon South) (Con)]

In the last decade, the population of Mali has grown by 60%, and it is forecast to grow by 400% by 2050. That leaves millions of young men and women without any reasonable expectation of employment—a sure prescription for social violence, fuelling instability in the region. Does the Prime Minister agree that if there were ever a role for DFID funding, it would be to address the economic wasteland that is the Sahel?

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend makes a very important point. Our aid is at work in Mali. UK aid is currently helping 200,000 people in Mali through the provision of food, emergency health and medicine, and we are always one of the first to step forward and help, and this is an example of that. I know our aid budget is controversial, but if we are to put together these broken and fragile states, I would say yes, there is a role for security; yes, there is a role for diplomacy and politics; but there is also a role for aid and economic assistance.

[Mr George Howarth (Knowsley) (Lab)]

May I join the Prime Minister in expressing my condolences to the families who lost loved ones in Algeria, and may I also express a little relief that my own constituent who was caught up in those events managed to get home safely? I commend the Under-Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs, the hon. Member for North East Bedfordshire (Alistair Burt) for the personal efforts he made to keep informed those MPs whose constituents were caught up in this situation.

On the question of our own intelligence and security agencies, does the Prime Minister agree that whatever changes we make to our own priorities, it is important to do more of what we are good at rather than trying to do too much in operations in which we would probably not be as effective?

[The Prime Minister]

First, I join the right hon. Gentleman in thanking my hon. Friend the Under-Secretary, who has been working extremely hard, almost around the clock, trying to keep people in touch, whether it be the Scottish Government, MPs, or the police liaison teams that liaised with the families through what has been an incredibly difficult—impossibly difficult—period for them. I pay tribute to those teams that do such an important job. I think the right hon. Gentleman is right in his general point that we should do more of what we are good at. All budgets are limited, and although £33 billion is a large defence budget, it has its limits, so we should focus on areas where we can, with our partners, make the greatest difference.

[Bob Stewart (Beckenham) (Con)]

It is excellent that my right hon. Friend chairs our new National Security Council, but as it is a committee, may I ask if an official close to the National Security Council could operate with your authority and your confidence right across the gamut of government to ensure that we have a co-ordinated approach to dealing with international terrorism? Could that official report to you through the committee?

[Mr Speaker]

Certainly not to me, but to the Prime Minister.

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. We do not want a National Security Council to be a sort of talking shop. It has behind it the whole of the national security apparatus of Whitehall, now all based in the Cabinet Office and very ably headed by my national security adviser, Sir Kim Darroch. He is able to drive the will of the committee and the decisions it takes right across Whitehall. That is the point of it. We are still learning how best to operate the system, but I think it has been a good innovation.

[Keith Vaz (Leicester East) (Lab)]

The Prime Minister is right to focus on north Africa, but he will know that al-Qaeda has been operating in countries such as the Yemen for years. As a result, Yemen has been destabilised, and the Prime Minister knows that, because he has put a lot of face time into helping the Government of Yemen. As he chairs the G8, will he consider inviting the leaders of those countries that are affected by al-Qaeda to attend the summit, as they did in Georgia in 2004, so that we can have a co-ordinated approach that involves them as well?

[The Prime Minister]

The right hon. Gentleman makes an interesting suggestion. I will take it away and think about it. He is absolutely right to say that Yemen has been one of the countries most troubled by terrorism. If we look at the scale of the threat to the UK directly, we find that what has been happening in Yemen and al-Qaeda in the Arabian peninsula have posed a great threat to the UK—greater than from al-Qaeda in the Islamic Maghreb. We should continue our focus on Yemen, which very much fits what I have said. We help Yemen militarily with counter-terrorism advice and support, we have an aid programme and a big diplomatic programme in Yemen, and we act with other allies to assist Yemen in its fight with the terrorists. I think that the Yemeni authorities have been making good progress on that front.

[Martin Horwood (Cheltenham) (LD)]

I strongly welcome the Prime Minister’s statement, I am particularly pleased that he drew attention to the planned European Union military training mission in Mali, which will build on the successful EU model in Somalia. Does he think that he will have an opportunity to emphasise the value of European security and defence policy at any other time soon?

--- Later in debate ---

[The Prime Minister]

I cannot imagine what the hon. Gentleman is thinking of, but he may not be disappointed.

[Chris Bryant (Rhondda) (Lab)]

For the last two decades, the southern countries in the European Union have been arguing that the whole EU needs to take security issues in the Maghreb far more seriously. Do not the events of the past week—as well as the arrival of many mercenaries from Libya, the arrival of narco-traffickers in the region, and the killing of 1,000 people by Boko Haram—show that we need a united and sustained EU approach to security to prevent us from facing the same problems again?

[The Prime Minister]

I agree that it is very important for the European Union to have a sensible programme of engagement with north African countries, which it has through its partnership. My criticisms of it in the past have been that it has not been exacting enough of those north African countries, and that there has been much aid without sensible strings and political development attached. I think that there is now a more realistic view in the European Union about the sort of progress, democracy and security response that we require throughout north Africa.

[Mr James Arbuthnot (North East Hampshire) (Con)]

Let me echo what my right hon. Friend said about the very effective work with constituency Members done during the crisis by the Under-Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs, my hon. Friend the. Member for North East Bedfordshire (Alistair Burt). Will my right hon. Friend confirm that this appalling attack had clearly been planned a long time before the French took action in Mali, or before we supported it; that Mali was no more than a hastily fabricated excuse; and that it would therefore be entirely wrong for us to step down from the region, as the terrorists clearly want?

[The Prime Minister]

I think that my right hon. Friend is right on both counts. It is clear from the scale of the attack, and the number of terrorists involved, that it was some time in the planning. However, I would advance the wider argument that my right hon. Friend has advanced. Do we really believe that we—British people, British companies and British interests—would somehow be safer if we, and others, stood back from Mali and allowed it to become a country effectively governed by an al-Qaeda franchise? Of course we would not be safer. The whole premise behind such thinking is wrong. Britain is a country that is engaged in the world and open to the world, and we have people living all over the world. We are safer if we act with others to deal with problems as they occur, rather than turning our back on the world and pretending that it is possible to take that approach.

[Mr Dennis Skinner (Bolsover) (Lab)]

Does the Prime Minister agree that eliminating a religious and political ideology is not an easy thing to do, as is evidenced by both Iraq and Afghanistan? Can he guarantee that, if it is not possible to get many west African troops, his crusading zeal will not lead him to the use of British troops in the future?

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[The Prime Minister]

I do not believe that the only answer, or the right answer on its own, is security and military action. As I said, and as I think the Leader of the Opposition said, we need to use all the elements at our disposal: a political response, a development response, and working with partners. However, that does not mean that a tough security approach is not part of what is required.

[Patrick Mercer (Newark) (Con)]

No one can have forgotten that on 21 July 2005, a lethal attack—which mercifully failed—was mounted against the London tube by a mixture of north Africans, including Algerians. The French, of course, have increased their domestic security. What is the Prime Minister’s assessment of how much more we are threatened at home as a result of these incidents, and what are we going to do about it?

[The Prime Minister]

Let me say first that my hon. Friend is absolutely right to raise the issue of extremists from other parts of the world who are based in the United Kingdom and who threaten our security. The Government are doing everything that they can to ensure that we are secure from those people. We also need to address the issue of being able effectively to deport people when they threaten our country.

On the specific question my hon. Friend asks about the threat to the UK of al-Qaeda in the Islamic Maghreb, the principal threat it poses is, as I said, to those countries in the region and to the people of those countries in that region, and to our interests and our people in that region. But there has been a history with the al-Qaeda franchises whereby they become magnets for terrorists from elsewhere, and pretty soon we find that their ambitions and the risks that they pose go wider.

[Mike Gapes (Ilford South) (Lab/Co-op)]

The Prime Minister said that he was going to push the issue of terrorism on the agenda for the G8. Will he also raise it with the EU 27 and the NATO 28, and try to get better co-ordination between the United States Africa Command —AFRICOM—in Stuttgart and the European security and defence policies?

[The Prime Minister]

I will certainly take the hon. Gentleman’s advice, and he makes a good point. The reason for specifically mentioning the G8 is that in that slightly smaller forum it is possible to have an in-depth conversation with American, French, Italian, Canadian and other partners about what more we can do to thicken our various defence, security, political and diplomatic relations with countries in, for instance, north Africa, making sure that we do not all fall over each other in trying to do the same thing in the same country. We should be recognising that in some cases there are very strong British relationships that we should build on, but in others the relationships may be French, Italian or American.

[Dr Julian Lewis (New Forest East) (Con)]

May I commend to the Prime Minister the concept of containment when he is considering these long-term problems? It served us well both for 70 years in the cold war and for 38 years in relation to Northern Ireland, and it would help to avoid an oscillation of policy from over-involvement on the ground, at one extreme, to too little involvement and an over-emphasis on withdrawal, at the other.

--- Later in debate ---

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend makes an extremely intelligent point, and I will think about it carefully. Part of my response would be to say that in a country such as Somalia our aim should not be to contain the problems of terrorism in Somalia; it should be to work with the Somali Government to build up Somali security forces and to work with the Somalis to have a better political solution to political problems in that country, so that, over time, politically, militarily and diplomatically, through aid and everything else, we squeeze the terrorists out of the space. That is not containing; it is trying, over time, to overcome them completely. That is the ambition we should have, but it does not mean, to answer the hon. Member for Bolsover (Mr Skinner), that we have to have some sort of “crusading zeal”; it means that we have to have real resolve, but bring an intelligent mix of answers to these very deep problems.

[Mr Frank Roy (Motherwell and Wishaw) (Lab)]

Sadly, the last few days have shown us that we must engage more with ordinary people in north African countries. Does the Prime Minister agree that we must do all we can to increase resources for projects such as the Arab Partnership, which brings together an understanding between the United Kingdom and the Arab people?

[The Prime Minister]

The hon. Gentleman makes a very good point; that partnership does have some £110 million in it, it has been an important initiative and we should continue to work on it.

[Mr John Baron (Basildon and Billericay) (Con)]

Given our experience in Afghanistan, where, as intelligence services confirm, we achieved our original mission very early on of defeating al-Qaeda, or of driving it out of the country, but then got drawn into an expensive nation-building exercise, does the Prime Minister agree that if we are to defeat international terrorism, we need a more nuanced, flexible policy on terrorism, which takes into account local dynamics, including closer liaison with those Governments threatened on the ground?

[The Prime Minister]

I do not disagree with the way in which my hon. Friend has put his question. It was absolutely right to go into Afghanistan to get rid of a Government who were a host to al-Qaeda, but then of course—this is what we are doing right now in Afghanistan—we do need to have a strong political track to get a political settlement that can enable that country not only to have its own security forces, but to have stability in its political system. That is the sort of thinking we need to bring to all these problems in the future.

[Ms Gisela Stuart (Birmingham, Edgbaston) (Lab)]

The Prime Minister referred several times to al-Qaeda “franchises”, and he rightly did so. Is he satisfied that what he would describe as such are not part of the Syrian opposition, which we appear to be supporting at the moment?

[The Prime Minister]

The hon. Lady makes an important point. Many organisations in the Syrian opposition want what most people in this House would want, which is for the Syrian people to be free of the brutal dictatorship and from the murder and mayhem they face—60,000 are dead so far. Of course, elements of the Syrian opposition have extremist views and extremist ways and we must be extremely concerned about that. To characterise all or a majority of the Syrian opposition in that way would not be right.

[Mr Ben Wallace (Wyre and Preston North) (Con)]

May I pay tribute to my right hon. Friend for not only how he has dealt with the immediate situation but for how, since the beginning of this Government, he has tried to deal with the underlying causes of terrorism abroad through the proper focus of international development? One way that Britain can protect her interests abroad by identifying threat is through a good strong network of defence attachés across our embassies. In the past decade, that network has weakened slightly. Will my right hon. Friend reconsider it and see what he can do?

[The Prime Minister]

I am very happy to reconsider that issue. I have been struck on my travels by the fact that the relationship between the defence attaché and foreign Governments is often one of the strongest we have. We will publish a paper about our defence engagement strategy shortly and it will carefully consider that issue.

[Paul Flynn (Newport West) (Lab)]

Even while contemplating this frightening future of perpetual war, will the Prime Minister contrast the successful results of our involvement in Kosovo and Sierra Leone with the results in Iraq and Afghanistan, where 620 British soldiers have died? Is not the prime lesson of Iraq and Afghanistan that we cannot win over hearts and minds with drones and bullets?

[The Prime Minister]

I think the hon. Gentleman draws a slightly unfair comparison about some of the engagements that, after all, a Labour Government got us into. In Kosovo and Sierra Leone, we were not dealing with the massive ideological problem of a twisted Islamic ideology that sees the murder of innocent people as not just possible but necessary. That, I think, is one of the differences with what we have been dealing with in Afghanistan and that point bears making.

[Mr Julian Brazier (Canterbury) (Con)]

I welcome my right hon. Friend’s comprehensive approach through the National Security Council to this threat and its potential domestic extension. Does he agree that that further underlines the importance of ensuring that we can deport those people who are a threat to our country, or imprison them if they cannot be deported, and that our intelligence services can fight court cases without giving away vital intelligence? That is why we need the Justice and Security Bill.

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend makes some very important points. There is no doubt that we have had a problem in recent years with some foreign nationals in this country who have extremist views and extremist aims. It has been very difficult to deport them, even when we have taken huge steps to get safeguards and assurances from the countries to which they will be sent—this applies to the previous Government, too. I am personally convinced that we must crack the problem and need to consider all possible avenues to do that. My hon. Friend is right, too, about the Justice and Security Bill, as we owe that to our security services. The Bill does not apply to criminal trials; it is for use when our security services are, in effect, being sued through the civil courts. It will allow more cases to come to court, rather than fewer.

[Mr Ronnie Campbell (Blyth Valley) (Lab)]

The Prime Minister is right that there are small terrorist groups, local terrorist groups and big ones, such as al-Qaeda. Who finances these big ones? They feed the other ones, so if we can get to the finance and cut the head off, the body will die.

[The Prime Minister]

The hon. Gentleman makes an extremely good point. One of the problems in north Africa is that the al-Qaeda franchises have been fed by money from hostage-taking and sometimes very large ransom payments have been made. One thing we will consider at the G8 is whether we can do more to cut off that sort of finance. That is vital in Somalia and in north Africa, too.

[Simon Hughes (Bermondsey and Old Southwark) (LD)]

Given that Algeria, like many countries in Africa, has many neighbours—six, in this case—and long and difficult to defend borders, which mean that people, not just from Africa, can cross without being spotted or detected, would not one option for NATO and the EU be not to offer troops on the ground but to build up our capacity to offer technical and surveillance support, so that we can monitor the activities of those who cross and who wish nobody any good?

[The Prime Minister]

My right hon. Friend makes an important point. Clearly, border security is extremely difficult in these countries, but there is more that we can do to help them with technical abilities and also with training. That is particularly the case with the Libyans.

[Dan Jarvis (Barnsley Central) (Lab)]

In the light of recent events in north Africa, does the Prime Minister think the strategic defence and security review remains relevant? If not, what is the mechanism whereby he plans to re-assess the Government’s current policy?

[The Prime Minister]

We plan for strategic defence and security reviews every five years, so this is a rolling programme where we permanently look at whether, given the threats that we face around the world, we have the right defence and security assets to deal with them. The decisions that we took in the last SDSR—in which we were bringing the defence budget back into balance, reducing the number of main battle tanks and looking at smaller, more flexible armed forces, but were putting money into ISTAR, drones and surveillance, into special forces and into cyber-security, making sure that we protected the key intelligence and security functions—were the right decisions. If anything, if we had the review over again, we would go more in that direction. All the evidence shows that these are the emerging problems that we are going to be dealing with more in the future.

[Mark Pritchard (The Wrekin) (Con)]

May I commend the Prime Minister on his leadership during this crisis and on keeping the House updated? My right hon. Friend mentioned an intelligent mix of assets. I wonder whether the 12,000 Algerians in the United Kingdom and 4,000 Mali nationals might be part of that intelligent approach, by deploying them in a positive way back to their own country in a developmental role and in a role that shows leadership within their country.

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend makes an important point, which is that in drawing up our national security strategy, we should be listening to the settled communities here in the UK that have a huge amount of knowledge and expertise about the countries that may be causing us concern. That is very much the case with the Somali community, and I am sure the points that he makes about the Algerian community are right, too.

[Rosie Cooper (West Lancashire) (Lab)]

Mindful of the distress caused, will the Prime Minister ensure that each family is told before names are released by the Government, and undertake, where the families wish it, to give them the fullest possible information about when, where and how their loved ones died?

[The Prime Minister]

The hon. Lady makes an extremely important point. We do a lot of thinking and a lot of work to try to get this impossibly difficult decision right. That is what the police liaison teams do, and the Government should always be asking, “Can this be handled even more sensitively in the future?”

[Sir Edward Garnier (Harborough) (Con)]

I was reassured by my right hon. Friend in his answers to the former Secretary of State, the right hon. Member for Coventry North East (Mr Ainsworth), about our diplomatic and military resources, but will my right hon. Friend draw any lessons from the request by the French to borrow two transport aircraft? They are the third biggest military force in Europe. Does that mean that they just do not have the aeroplanes, or does it mean that their aeroplanes were doing something else and they needed to borrow some from us?

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. and learned Friend makes an important point. My understanding is that the French do not have C-17s. They have a different lay-down of forces. I would argue that one of the things that we did in the SDSR, which the previous Government were working on too, was making sure that we had good mobility and strategic lift for our armed forces. They are vital. The C-17s are based in my constituency, at RAF Brize Norton, so perhaps I am biased, but as far as I can see they are workhorses. They are vitally important. We have eight of them, and lending two to the French for this vital task is right. In future, we have the A400M coming in and that is a highly capable plane that will help with the transport and heavy-lift capabilities as well.

[Joan Walley (Stoke-on-Trent North) (Lab)]

Will the Prime Minister assure us that when he says the UK Government will be working across the region, this will include increased diplomatic efforts to find a peaceful solution to the conflict in Western Sahara?

[The Prime Minister]

Yes. The hon. Lady makes an important point. As I tried to say in my statement, there are many long-standing, deep, difficult political conflicts that have to be resolved. Although there is never an excuse for the sort of terrorism that we saw over the weekend, terrorist groups and others exploit these grievances. An intelligent approach to trying to combat al-Qaeda right across the piece is to break up the different parts of this insurgency and deal with the individual problems, as well as undertaking the tough security response that I spoke about.

[Geoffrey Clifton-Brown (The Cotswolds) (Con)]

Does my right hon. Friend agree that we should use the extensive contact that we have had with the Algerians as a result of the tragedy to encourage them to use their considerable resources to combat the jihadists, whoever they are, in north and west Africa?

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend makes an important point. I have spoken to the Algerian Prime Minister six times, I think, in the last three days, and the Under-Secretary of State, my hon. Friend the Member for North East Bedfordshire, has had a number of conversations, as has the Foreign Secretary.

The Algerians have huge, long experience of fighting against extremist Islamism and their country had a very painful and difficult civil war. It is a country where we will want to thicken and deepen our diplomatic, political and even military and counter-terrorism contacts.

[Chi Onwurah (Newcastle upon Tyne Central) (Lab)]

Many of those so tragically caught up in the terrorist attacks in Algeria are engineers, who, as I know from my own engineering career, are often called on to work abroad without appropriate security information, particularly if they work for smaller companies or are contractors. The Prime Minister said that he would be in contact with larger oil companies. May I urge him and the Foreign Secretary to work with the professional bodies concerned, such as my own body, the Institution of Engineering and Technology, to ensure that individuals as well as companies can make informed choices for themselves?

[The Prime Minister]

The hon. Lady makes an extremely good point, and Foreign Office Ministers were listening carefully. Some 250 to 300 British nationals are working in oil and gas installations in Algeria. I encourage the companies and, in the case of subcontractors, perhaps the individuals as well, to make sure that they contact the consular authorities, so that we know who is in the country and what their roles are. It would help enormously if they did.

[Penny Mordaunt (Portsmouth North) (Con)]

Defence planning has tended to focus on building the most flexible capabilities to respond to future threats. I welcome the shift under this Government, who are also investing in preventing those threats from occurring in the first place. Will the Prime Minister show the same leadership as he did on Libya in getting other countries in Europe and further afield to follow suit?

[The Prime Minister]

I am grateful for what my hon. Friend says. Right across Europe, countries are having strategic defence reviews or their equivalents, and we should encourage them to do that. An enormous amount of resource is locked up in European defence budgets that is, frankly, wasted on a lot of capabilities that are not so necessary. While it is always difficult to change the lay-down of forces and to scrap old equipment and old ways of doing things, if we want to face the threats of the future, it is essential that all countries do this.

[Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab)]

In his statement, the Prime Minister told us that a small number of the terrorists involved in the incident are in Algerian custody. Can he elaborate on that at all and tell us anything further about the potential for intelligence from those prisoners?

[The Prime Minister]

I am afraid that it is very difficult to do that. I do not have the final numbers on the number of hostage takers who were captured by the Algerian authorities; obviously, that will be a responsibility for them. I also think that figures and facts will emerge about the different make-up of the hostage takers, who included a number of foreign nationals. We do not yet have information that any are British nationals, but I expect that figures will be released at some stage showing that a number of nationals from other countries were involved in the atrocity.

[Mark Menzies (Fylde) (Con)]

I join others in congratulating the Prime Minister on the level-headed way in which he has handled this. Algeria is a proud country that wants to strengthen its relations with the United Kingdom. Can the Prime Minister assure me that everything will be done to strengthen and deepen that relationship at a time when Algeria needs us most?

[The Prime Minister]

I can certainly give my hon. Friend that assurance. Relations are good—they were already good—but this tragedy does give us the opportunity to look again at what more we can do in co-operation with the Algerians.

[Jonathan Ashworth (Leicester South) (Lab)]

The Prime Minister rightly said that terrorism will be at the top of the agenda at the G8. Given that we are dealing with al-Qaeda affiliates, or franchises, as he puts it, will he give us more detail on the type of co-ordinated action on which he hopes to get agreement at the G8? Will he also say a word or two about his assessment of the security situation in Nigeria? Can he reassure us that increased and understandable emphasis on west Africa will not mean less emphasis on Somalia?

[The Prime Minister]

There were a lot of questions there. The first thing that the G8 can do is make sure that we share a common analysis of the problem. I believe that we do and that this mixture of tough but intelligent response is what is required. There are some specific things we can start to discuss about how countries in the G8—France, Italy, Canada, America, the British—can start thinking about how we partner up more with countries, but make sure that we do not fall over each other in doing so.

What the hon. Gentleman says about Somalia is key. Last year’s London conference was successful in helping to bring about the political transition that was necessary in Somalia; it also helped in getting the United Nations resolution that was needed and in the building up of Somali security forces. I am committed to making sure that we continue that patient, painstaking work, which is helping that country to put itself back together again. I am determined that we should not slip back.

[Several hon. Members]

rose—

[Mr Philip Hollobone (Kettering) (Con)]

It must be right that, in addition to the appropriate security response, there should be a refocusing of international development assistance on failed or failing states in north Africa. There are a lot of very rich Islamic nations in the world. Might we see rather more money coming from them to provide that international development assistance, rather than its coming only from the west?

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend makes an important point. We do have one of the largest budgets in the world and I think we use it well, but we are focusing much more on conflict and broken states; a lot more of the money is going in that direction. The G8 traditionally discusses development assistance, but the G20 is starting to do that as well, and of course the G20 includes some of the most populous and richest Islamic states on Earth. We should certainly encourage their work.

[Mark Lazarowicz (Edinburgh North and Leith) (Lab/Co-op)]

The Prime Minister referred to the role that could be played by the ECOWAS states—indeed, some are already taking action—but he will know that ECOWAS was not originally set up as a military or political alignment, that its resources are limited, and that some of its members are stretched elsewhere in terms of military activity. Is there a danger in expecting too much from ECOWAS, at least in the short term? What role can be played by other international bodies such as the African Union and, indeed, the United Nations, which has not been mentioned today?

[The Prime Minister]

The hon. Gentleman makes an important point. The key thing is that it is much better if the military and security forces are provided by local states, rather than by others. The French intervened because it was an emergency, but their aim, as I understand it, is to make sure that we train up and encourage west African states to put their military into Mali as a way of providing security. It is in our interest to build the capacity of these countries and, frankly, it is in their interest to make sure that that capacity is there, because if we do not sort out problems such as Mali, the knock-on effect on other west African states will be felt very rapidly. However, the hon. Gentleman is right that we should not overestimate what is available.

[Craig Whittaker (Calder Valley) (Con)]

I thank my right hon. Friend for his statement and for the way he has handled the crisis over the past week. What level of counselling and other support are BP and the British Government offering to the British nationals who were held hostage and their families?

--- Later in debate ---

[The Prime Minister]

Obviously BP has a huge responsibility because many of these people are its employees, and I know that it takes that very seriously. On the Government side, the main point of access is the police liaison teams, who do a fantastic job in very difficult circumstances. As others have said, one of the key concerns and considerations is how to keep them up to date with the news as it is coming in while not getting ahead of what they are being told. That is never easy to get right, and I will make sure that we always try to learn the lessons if we have not done so.

[Thomas Docherty (Dunfermline and West Fife) (Lab)]

I am sure that the whole House welcomes the Prime Minister’s new focus on cyber-security and other defence interests, but will he confirm whether these investments will be met from existing budgets or he is proposing new money for the Ministry of Defence?

[The Prime Minister]

I am afraid that there is not new money available to the MOD. However, the decision we made in the strategic defence and security review was for hundreds of millions of pounds to be spent on cyber-security, and that was new money—investment that was not taking place previously. Also, the priority given to things such as special forces and some key intelligence assets was, in effect, new investment to make sure that our forces and our national security are correctly aligned with the threats that we face.

[Sir Bob Russell (Colchester) (LD)]

The Prime Minister gave a five-point summary of how to defeat terrorists, the second of which was military action. Will he reflect on whether it is prudent and in Britain’s interests to cut the size of our armed forces?

[The Prime Minister]

All these decisions are difficult, but the key for the future is not necessarily to look at the overall number of regular soldiers, sailors or airmen we have, but to look at the capabilities we have. We should reflect on the decisions taken in the SDSR that made sure that our forces are mobile, properly equipped and accompanied by all the assets they need. If, for example, we decided to maintain the number of soldiers but not to invest in C-17 aircraft, we would not be able to move those soldiers around the world. If we invested simply in the number of soldiers but did not have drones and other intelligence, surveillance, target acquisition and reconnaissance—ISTAR—equipment, we would not be able to fight modern warfare. Yes, those are difficult decisions, but I have to say that I find it frustrating when people just want to keep what we have and then add to it. To govern is to make difficult choices about priorities, but I am convinced that we made the right choices in the SDSR.

[Mr William Bain (Glasgow North East) (Lab)]

People in Scotland have been horrified at the loss of life over the weekend and at the growing threat we face from terrorist groups operating across national boundaries in north Africa. Does the Prime Minister agree with the plan of the US and French Governments: that Algeria should secure its borders with Mali to staunch the flow of terrorist groups and the proceeds from drug trafficking, which underpins much of their activity?

--- Later in debate ---

[The Prime Minister]

I agree with the hon. Gentleman that there is obviously huge concern in Scotland. Over the centuries, Scots have been fantastic at working and earning money overseas and travelling the world, and we need to make sure that we protect their interests. Of course I want to see Algeria work to defend its borders, but, to be frank, if we do not deal with crises such as that in Mali and the existence of ungoverned space in other neighbouring countries, it is very difficult for any country, no matter how good its border and security forces, to maintain secure borders.

[James Duddridge (Rochford and Southend East) (Con)]

Given that a number of the countries in north and west Africa are French speaking, is it not fortuitous that the Foreign Secretary took the decision last year to reopen our embassy in Abidjan, Côte d’Ivoire? Not only was Abidjan known as the Paris of Africa, a number of other Francophone countries look toward Abidjan for guidance.

[The Prime Minister]

My right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary is endlessly far-sighted, because not only did he reopen that embassy, but he reopened the language school for the Foreign Office. He is always telling me that a key part of this Government’s story about fighting and succeeding in the global race is the fact that we are investing in our diplomatic network and our network of embassies around the world. Of course, as I said, we will also have to look carefully at the lay-down in west Africa.

[David Rutley (Macclesfield) (Con)]

I join the Prime Minister in thanking the Foreign Office and the police for their heroic and exemplary efforts to support British hostages and their families. Will my right hon. Friend tell the House what steps are being taken, militarily and from a security perspective, to encourage greater co-operation between west African and north African states in the fight against terrorists?

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend makes an important point. What we should be doing is working out with each of the countries the best and most appropriate partnership. In the case of Nigeria, as I have said many times, we have a very strong relationship and are very involved in helping on counter-terrorism and policing. With the French and others, we should be looking at all of these countries, whether it is Niger, Mali or Algeria, and working out what we can best do to help.

[Christopher Pincher (Tamworth) (Con)]

Beyond Algeria, my right hon. Friend will know that more than 4,000 BP workers and their families live in the south Caucasus and, in particular, Azerbaijan. Although Azerbaijan is a stable and secular state, will my right hon. Friend work with the Government in Baku to assess the risk faced by Britons there and the facilities in which they work, to ensure that they are protected to the utmost?

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right: the Government should do that—but of course it is the primary responsibility of companies such as BP, which have huge resources and, indeed, almost their own diplomatic networks, to make sure that their people are safe, to work with the Governments of the countries in which they operate and to look at their security based on the present level of threat. I commend BP for the work that it does on that, but it needs to redouble all its efforts.

[Rehman Chishti (Gillingham and Rainham) (Con)]

I welcome the Prime Minister’s statement. He will know that Saudi Arabia has set up a world-renowned deradicalisation centre, which was visited by the previous Prime Minister and is recognised by the United Nations. What steps are being taken to get countries such as Saudi Arabia to share their good practice with other countries on how they can tackle radicalisation and extremism?

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend makes an important point. I think that Saudi Arabia realised what a problem it had with Islamic extremism. It is now a leader in deradicalisation programmes, and I strongly encourage it to share its thinking and approach with other countries. We need to build an alliance of Islamic countries to make sure that we all back deradicalisation and condemn utterly the perverse interpretation of Islam that says that somehow it is right to carry out terrorist attacks and murder innocent people.

[Karen Lumley (Redditch) (Con)]

A few years ago, it could have been me waiting for news from Algeria, as my husband used to work in the oil industry out there and in many other African countries. Following many conversations that we have had over the weekend, will the Prime Minister assure me that he and his colleagues will talk to major oil companies to ensure that they tighten up their security procedures?

[The Prime Minister]

I can certainly give my hon. Friend that assurance. I have had several conversations with Bob Dudley, the head of BP, in recent days and, as I just said, it is very important that companies recognise their responsibilities, look at all the modern levels of threat and work out what they need to do for themselves and with the countries in which they are located.

[Dr Matthew Offord (Hendon) (Con)]

On 13 March last year, I raised my concerns on the Floor of the House about Libyan weaponry falling into the hands of terrorists who were intent on kidnapping. In the light of my question then, the recent incident is even more regrettable, so may I urge the Prime Minister to put pressure on the international community to end the illicit circulation of small arms and light weapons and ammunition for them in the region?

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend raises a very important point. Frankly, Libya had a problem with excessive levels of firearms in civilian possession long before the fall of Gaddafi, and the problem has worsened in recent times. That is why we are working closely with the Libyan Government to help them to build security forces that can bring greater security to that country. I do not accept the view of those who say that we would somehow be better off if authoritarian dictators such as Gaddafi were still in power, not only because of what I said about his personal encouragement of terrorism around the world, but because I think that such regimes encouraged many young people to take up the path of jihadism, extremism and violence, perhaps not in Libya but in other parts of the world. We are still dealing with that today.

[Neil Carmichael (Stroud) (Con)]

I welcome the Prime Minister’s statement and his emphasis on the need for Britain to remain fully involved internationally. In an earlier answer, he noted the importance of strategic defence reviews and the need to encourage member states of the European Union to undertake them. Can he see a way of encouraging member states to reflect in those reviews their obvious and clear national interest in having political security and stability in north and west Africa?

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend makes an important point. We ourselves need to look at what we can do to enhance our security, and we need to look at all the issues that have been raised this afternoon, but the principal response will need to be from the north and west African countries that are on the front line of fighting al-Qaeda franchises.

[Andrew Bridgen (North West Leicestershire) (Con)]

Does my right hon. Friend agree that these events show that it was right for the strategic defence review to focus defence spending on the capabilities needed to counter such new threats, including extra funding for special forces? Is he as surprised and disappointed as I am that the BBC has consistently described the perpetrators of these heinous crimes as militants, rather than as the terrorists they are?

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend makes a good point. They are terrorists and they should be described as such. This was a terrorist attack to take hostages and kill innocent people, and it should be condemned utterly.

[Gavin Barwell (Croydon Central) (Con)]

The Prime Minister will be aware of research showing a worrying level of Islamophobia in this country. With that in mind, as an MP representing a constituency with a significant Muslim community, may I warmly welcome his clear statement that the generational conflict in which we are engaged is not between the west and Islam, but between people of all faiths who want to live in peace and those who would resort to terror?

[The Prime Minister]

What my hon. Friend says is absolutely right and should form part of every speech and statement made about this issue. This is not a clash of civilisations; it is all people against a very small minority who are poisoned by that ideology. It is worth making the point that the biggest number of victims of al-Qaeda violence are Muslim men and women. That remains the case, and we cannot make that point too often.

[Mr Robert Buckland (South Swindon) (Con)]

I warmly welcome my right hon. Friend’s refocusing of attention on the causes of instability in that troubled region; some are recent, but some are of much longer standing. Will he do all that he can to resolve the plight of thousands of Sahrawi refugees who continue to languish in the camps of Tindouf in Algeria, which may be a source of instability in the region?

--- Later in debate ---

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend makes an important point that echoes one made by an Opposition Member. A number of long-standing political conflicts, grievances and other issues in the region have to be addressed. They are never an excuse for terrorism, but they can provide some of the backdrop. The way I would put it is that we have to drain the swamp of all those issues at the same time as confronting, in a very tough manner, the terrorism and the terrorists that we face.

Algeria

Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton Excerpts

Friday 18th January 2013 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister (Mr David Cameron)]

With permission, Mr Speaker, I would like to make a statement on the hostage crisis in Algeria and the tragic events of the past three days. I am sure the whole House will share my disgust at and condemnation of the brutal and savage terrorist attack that has been unfolding in Algeria. Our thoughts and prayers this morning are with those still caught up in this incident, with their families who are waiting anxiously for news, and with those who have already lost loved ones.

I have this morning chaired another meeting of the Cobra emergency committee and have just come from speaking again to the Algerian Prime Minister. Let me take the House through what we believe has happened, the steps we are taking now, and what this means for our security and the fight against terrorism around the world.

In the early hours of Wednesday morning, terrorists attacked a gas installation run by BP, the Norwegian company Statoil, and the Algerian company Sonatrach at In Amenas in south-eastern Algeria near the Libyan border. The terrorist group is believed to have been operating under Mokhtar Belmokhtar, a criminal terrorist and smuggler who has been operating in Mali and in the region for a number of years and who has been affiliated with al-Qaeda in the Maghreb.

In Amenas is some 18 hours by road from the capital, Algiers. It is in the middle of the Sahara desert and one of the most remote places in the world. As a result, it takes time to get a complete picture, and the full details are still emerging. But according to the information we have from the Algerian authorities, the terrorists first attacked two buses en route to the In Amenas airfield before attacking the residential compound and the gas facility at the installation. It appears to have been a large, well co-ordinated and heavily armed assault, and it is probable that it had been pre-planned. Two of those travelling in the convoy to the airfield were very sadly killed, including one British national, and his family were informed on Wednesday. A number of other workers were taken hostage by the terrorists in separate locations both at the residential compound and at the gas facility. The precise numbers involved remain unclear at this stage, but the hostages included British nationals, along with nationals of at least seven other countries, and of course many Algerians.

As soon as we heard of the attack, we initiated the Government’s crisis management procedures in both London and Algeria. Our most immediate priority was to establish the identity and whereabouts of British nationals, to contact their families, and to do everything possible to secure their safe return. I chaired a meeting of the Government’s emergency committee, Cobra, and I spoke to the Algerian Prime Minister on Wednesday afternoon and then on three further occasions.

From the outset, I have been clear about our implacable opposition to terrorism and said that we will stand with the Algerians in their fight against these terrorist forces, but I also emphasised the paramount importance of securing the safety of the hostages. I offered UK technical and intelligence support, including from experts in hostage negotiation and rescue, to help find a successful resolution; and I urged that we and other countries affected should be consulted before any action was taken. I also spoke to the leaders of other countries which had hostages taken, including Japanese Prime Minister Abe, Norwegian Prime Minister Stoltenberg, President Hollande and President Obama, and I co-ordinated further offers of support for the Algerians in dealing with the situation.

During the course of Thursday morning, the Algerian forces mounted an operation. We were not informed of this in advance. I was told by the Algerian Prime Minister while it was taking place. He said that the terrorists had tried to flee, and that the Algerians judged there to be an immediate threat to the lives of the hostages and had felt obliged to respond. When I spoke to the Algerian Prime Minister later last night, he told me that this first operation was complete but that this is a large and complex site and they are still pursuing the terrorists and possibly some of the hostages in other areas of the site. The Algerian Prime Minister has just told me this morning that they are now looking at all possible routes to resolve this crisis.

Last night the number of British citizens at risk was fewer than 30. Thankfully, we now know that that number has been quite significantly reduced. I am sure the House will understand why, during an ongoing operation, I cannot say more on this at this stage.

Our priority remains the safety of the British nationals involved, the repatriation of those killed, and the evacuation of the wounded and freed hostages. A rapid deployment consular team is en route to Algiers, together with other specialists, and the Algerian Prime Minister has agreed to my request to grant access to our consular staff to fly south as soon as possible to support those involved. I have also spoken to Bob Dudley at BP both last night and again this morning. We are liaising closely on BP’s evacuation plans and have put additional civilian aircraft on standby to assist it with its well-thought-through evacuation plans if needed.

We need to be absolutely clear whose fault this is. It is the terrorists who are responsible for this attack and for the loss of life. The action of these extremists can never be justified. We will be resolute in our determination to fight terrorism and to stand with the Algerian Government, who have paid a heavy price over many years fighting against a savage terrorist campaign. This is a continuing situation, and we will do our best to keep Parliament and the public updated. We hope that this will reach a conclusion shortly. There will then, of course, be a moment to learn the necessary lessons. I commend this statement to the House.

[Edward Miliband (Doncaster North) (Lab)]

I thank the Prime Minister for his statement. Let me say to him on behalf of the Opposition that the Government have our full support as they respond to these appalling and tragic events. I thank him for keeping me informed over the course of the past 24 hours or so.

I start by echoing the Prime Minister’s words in offering our deepest concern and sympathy to the families and loved ones affected by this shocking act of terror. The thoughts of the House and the country will be with the family of the British citizen who has died and all those families enduring the uncertainty of waiting for news of their loved ones.

Alongside Algerians and other foreign nationals, those involved are British citizens seeking to earn an honest living far from home and their families. It is appalling that innocent, decent people have been targeted in this way. There is not, nor can there ever be, any justification for the taking of hostages. Those who planned and are responsible for this attack must be in no doubt that Britain, along with the international community, stands united in condemnation. As the Prime Minister said, it is the hostage-takers who bear the responsibility for these events, and we must do everything in our power to bring them to justice.

I appreciate that the operation on the ground is ongoing and so the Prime Minister is obviously restricted in the information he can reveal. Bearing this in mind, I would like to ask him some questions. First, the families of those affected will need support and care at this difficult time, so will he assure the House that all necessary support will be provided, either directly here or through our consular services in the region, to the families of those affected?

Secondly, there are a number of other such foreign-owned installations of this kind in Algeria and the wider region. Will the Prime Minister provide some information to the House about how the Government are working with British companies to review the security situation at these facilities?

Thirdly, given that this incident happened in an isolated part of southern Algeria, what is the Government’s advice for UK nationals working, living or travelling in Algeria or the wider region?

Fourthly, at this early stage, what information is the Prime Minister able to share about the motives of the terrorist cell responsible for this attack? More broadly, will he set out the Government’s assessment of the level of threat posed by groups connected to al-Qaeda in the Maghreb operating in the region? Had there been any indication of an increased threat from these groups?

Fifthly, does he agree that this attack, alongside the events in Mali, is the latest indication of a still growing security threat in north Africa and the wider region? Does he recognise that this demands intensified international collaboration, intelligence-sharing and diplomatic activity focused on this part of the world?

For now, all efforts must be centred on resolving this ongoing crisis and ensuring the safety of British citizens. For the families concerned, this is a dark and difficult time. The whole House stands united in support of them, and the thoughts of the whole country are with them.

[The Prime Minister]

I thank the right hon. Gentleman for his support and his words. He is right that there is no justification for this hostage-taking and we will continue to do everything we can to hunt the people down who were responsible for this and other such terrorist outrages. I will take his questions in turn.

First, it is vital that the families get all the support possible. Police liaison officers are attached to each family and can keep them updated with any additional or new information. BP is obviously doing everything it can to provide support as well. BP has made an important statement this morning, which sets out what it has done to repatriate BP staff from Algeria. Three flights left Algeria yesterday, carrying a total of 11 BP employees. We are providing a back-up service to ensure that if there are gaps in what BP is able to do we can fill them.

The right hon. Gentleman’s second question on the security of other installations is vital. We are co-ordinating urgently with British and western oil companies in the region about their security in the light of this incident. All installations in Algeria are on a state of high alert and additional security measures will be put in place where necessary. We have also taken precautions to ensure the security of diplomatic posts in the region, and have given them advice.

The right hon. Gentleman mentions travel advice. That is an important issue. We continue to advise against all but essential travel to Algeria. We also advise against all but essential travel to areas within 450 km of the Mali and Niger borders, and within 100 km of the Mauritanian border. The travel advice has been updated to read:

“A serious terrorist attack has taken place near the town of In Amenas near the Algerian border with Libya… The Algerian security forces have subsequently conducted operations in the area.”

It remains a very dangerous, uncertain and fluid situation.

The motives and precise identity of the terrorists are always difficult to determine at such an early stage. What we know is that the terrorist threat in the Sahel comes from al-Qaeda in the Islamic Maghreb, which aspires to establish Islamic law across the Sahel and northern Africa, and to attack western interests in the region and, frankly, wherever it can.

The right hon. Gentleman rightly asked about the growth of the threat from this part of the world. It is growing and is rightly a focus for us and other countries. Just as we have reduced the scale of the al-Qaeda threat in parts of the world, including in Pakistan and Afghanistan, so the threat has grown in other parts of the world. We need to be equally concerned about that and equally focused on it.

I hope that I have answered the right hon. Gentleman’s questions. There is a great need for not just Britain but other countries to give a priority to understanding better and working better with the countries in this region. The Government held a National Security Council meeting quite recently on this area and I have appointed my hon. Friend the Member for Eddisbury (Mr O’Brien) to be a special envoy to the region. The region obviously has a great French influence and many contacts with France, but we believe that it is important in our own national interest to thicken and improve our contacts with these countries. We must do that as part of the lessons to be learned from this exercise.

I am grateful to the right hon. Gentleman for his questions and the way in which he put them. It is difficult to answer further questions, particularly on numbers, but I will keep the House and the country updated.

[Sir Malcolm Rifkind (Kensington) (Con)]

The Prime Minister will recall Churchill’s remark that north Africa is the “soft underbelly” of Europe. Does he agree that that is true today, and that al-Qaeda-inspired or directed terrorism is as much of a threat to the people of this country and of Europe as to the unfortunate people who live in that region? Given that the United Kingdom traditionally has not had a strong presence in this part of north Africa, will the Prime Minister agree that there is a powerful case for a much stronger political, diplomatic and intelligence effort in the region, as part of a co-ordinated strategy with our European and American allies, and the wider international community?

[The Prime Minister]

My right hon. and learned Friend is right in both regards. Those who believe that there is a terrorist, extremist al-Qaeda problem in parts of north Africa, but that it is a problem for those places and we can somehow back off and ignore it are profoundly wrong. This is a problem for those places and for us. We need to be absolutely clear about that, particularly in our support of the French action in Mali, where it is vital that we do not allow an al-Qaeda-sponsored regime to take over the entire country. He is also right that we need to give proper priority in our strategic thinking and our strategic defence reviews to this area of the world. The Government are now doing that, but I am sure that there is more work that we need to do.

[Mr Geoffrey Robinson (Coventry North West) (Lab)]

I thank the Prime Minister for coming to the House. It is appropriate that he reported this grave situation in the way he did and in the tone he adopted. He rightly said that we must give the French every support, and I think the whole House would agree with that. It is important that they prevail in that intervention, which enjoys the support of the whole Security Council and of the UN. Will he confirm that we have responded positively to every request from the French for logistical or other help when we have been able to provide it?

[The Prime Minister]

I am happy to give the hon. Gentleman that assurance. I think we were the first country in the world to ask the French how we could help and then to deliver it. That took the form of two C-17s, one of which has been transporting French troops into Mali. I spoke again with President Hollande yesterday and said that the offer of the continued use of that C-17 was there. We are looking at a range of other things that we can do to help with logistics and back-up.

As I have said, we fully support the French action. The threat in Mali is effectively of a rebel regime, supported by terrorists and al-Qaeda, taking over the country. That is a threat not just to that region, but to the world. Of course, we should be and are encouraging other countries in west Africa to bring troops into Mali to help defend the Malian Government and people, and there are good signs that countries in west Africa are taking that lead and helping to achieve that. We shall continue to work very closely with the French and see how we can help further.

[Martin Horwood (Cheltenham) (LD)]

The EU military training mission in Somalia has achieved great success and there are similar plans to support the Malian armed forces with an EU training mission. Do these terrible events demonstrate a wider need for training and support for authorities across the region, both to increase resilience in the face of attack and to improve the chances of successful outcomes that minimise loss of life when such terrible events happen?

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend is entirely right. These events demonstrate the importance of training missions and of having good and strong political, diplomatic and military relations with countries in the region. The example in Somalia shows the importance of encouraging neighbouring countries to help to provide security and rebuild these countries. As I have said, we support the action that the French Government have taken in Mali, but over time it is important that the countries of west Africa step up to provide stability and beat back terrorism in that country.

[Angus Robertson (Moray) (SNP)]

I thank the Prime Minister for his statement. This tragedy is touching families in a great many countries and causing fears for families in many places, including in Scotland. Will the Prime Minister give an assurance that there is the greatest possible co-ordination with the Scottish Government to ensure that those families receive all the necessary support?

[The Prime Minister]

I can certainly give the hon. Gentleman that assurance. The Under-Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs, my hon. Friend the Member for North East Bedfordshire (Alistair Burt), has spoken to Kenny MacAskill on several occasions and I spoke to the Scottish First Minister yesterday. It is important that we work together closely on this matter and we will try to keep the hon. Gentleman updated on all the information.

[Sir Tony Baldry (Banbury) (Con)]

This terrorist atrocity was obviously some time in the planning. The terrorists needed to acquire weapons, quartermasters and so on. Does that not emphasise the need for us to work collaboratively with our friends in Europe, the United States and elsewhere to share intelligence to try to ensure that such groups have the greatest possible difficulty in accessing weaponry and that, as far as is possible, they are denied access to the international banking system? The international community is quite rightly imposing sanctions on countries such as Iran, but we also need to do everything we can, through the intelligence services and otherwise, to frustrate such non-state actors in trying to perpetrate acts of hostility against us and others.

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend makes a very important point. We have to do everything we can with our partners, through security and intelligence co-operation, to provide as little space as possible for terrorist organisations, whether in the banking system or in the availability of safe havens. That is what is so concerning about what has happened in west Africa, where parts of Mali have become a safe haven for these terrorists. He is absolutely right in what he says.

[Keith Vaz (Leicester East) (Lab)]

Further to the question from the hon. Member for Banbury (Sir Tony Baldry), the fight against international terrorism cannot be conducted by one country alone; it has to be co-ordinated. Given that al-Qaeda in the Maghreb also operates in Morocco and Tunisia, what assistance can we give to those countries by way of sharing information, or perhaps giving them counter-terrorism assistance, so that we can contain this issue, rather than let it spread to other countries in north Africa?

[The Prime Minister]

The right hon. Gentleman makes a very important point. We have good relations with countries such as Tunisia and Morocco at a political and diplomatic level. There are obviously opportunities for intelligence sharing, and I would argue that we need to add to that a degree of military-to-military talks and co-operation, so that when these regrettable events take place there is a high level of trust and an ability to work together. Obviously, there are some countries in the region with which we have very long, historical relations—Nigeria, for instance, with which we have a very thick relationship politically, diplomatically and militarily, and with counter-terrorism and all the rest of it. I think we need to go through all our contacts and work out how best to strengthen them in each case.

[Mr Bernard Jenkin (Harwich and North Essex) (Con)]

May I commend my right hon. Friend’s statement? Is this not a sharp reminder that we live in a world of ungoverned spaces and terrorist groups that can strike and create violence at any time? Is it not therefore very important that we maintain Whitehall and our agencies on a wartime footing, ready to respond, as my right hon. Friend is now?

[The Prime Minister]

I thank my hon. Friend for what he has said. I think this is a reminder of two very clear points. First, we face a large and existential terrorist threat from a group of extremists based in different parts of the world who want to do the biggest possible amount of damage to our interests and way of life. Secondly, those extremists thrive when they have ungoverned spaces in which they can exist, build and plan. I very much agree with what my hon. Friend has said. Under this Government—as under previous Governments—a lot of priority has been given to the funding of the security services, and there is now a good system for bringing together intelligence and military and political planning through the National Security Council, and in other ways including the emergency committee Cobra framework, which brings people together very rapidly to ensure that all parts of the British Government and state are able to bring their expertise to bear.

[Helen Goodman (Bishop Auckland) (Lab)]

This area is obviously extremely unstable. As the Prime Minister knows, Algeria has just emerged from a civil war and there are failed states on either side of it. Will the Prime Minister say a little more about the diplomatic activity that he is now going to embark on in that region?

[The Prime Minister]

First, I want to praise our ambassador to Algeria and his staff, who have been working around the clock and have been extremely effective in getting information to us about what is happening. We are expanding our network of embassies and contacts around the world but we must look all the time at how well we are represented in different countries, and where best to thicken the contacts we have. I think we have to do that in partnership with other countries. For instance, there is no doubt that in parts of west Africa the French have excellent connections with countries where we have less-good connections, but likewise there are countries where the opposite applies. We need to work with our partners—I discussed this with President Obama last night—and ensure that between us we have the strongest possible contacts.

[Bob Stewart (Beckenham) (Con)]

I thank my right hon. Friend for his statement telling us as much as he can about what has happened. May I ask him whether our specialist experts in kidnap and ransom and hostage negotiation are still on stand-by to help in the event of this operation being ongoing, as it seems to be for a small group of terrorists who are holding nationals from this country and other allies?

[The Prime Minister]

I thank my hon. Friend for his question. The answer is yes, hostage negotiating experts are on stand-by with other sorts of technical expertise that we can provide. I have made those offers to the Algerian Prime Minister, and all those offers stand. We do have considerable expertise, but let me make one point clear. We must remember that the Algerian Government are facing the challenge of a massive terrorist attack with lives immediately at risk. While we in this country can be hugely proud of the technical expertise and the brilliance of our security forces and special forces, one can have the ultimate degree of planning and still find that these events end unhappily. We should bear that in mind when thinking about the actions the Algerians have taken.

[Jeremy Corbyn (Islington North) (Lab)]

I thank the Prime Minister for his statement. Obviously, the situation facing those in the gas plant is appalling. What consideration is he giving to greater British military involvement anywhere in the region, including Mali, and what will be the possible consequences for the future of the whole region and the possibilities of long-term political peace?

[The Prime Minister]

We have offered logistical and other assistance to the French, along the lines I have set out—C-17 planes and other logistical support. We are also looking at the EU training mission and how we could contribute to that. I do not believe that in Mali we are talking remotely about combat troops or that sort of approach; that is not the role we see for ourselves in that conflict. I will say again that I think we should strongly support what the French and the west African countries are trying to do in Mali, which is to push back the rebel forces who are backed by al-Qaeda and ensure that they cannot take control of that country. I would very much caution against anyone who believes that if somehow we stayed out of these issues and just said, “This has got nothing to do with us”, that would somehow make us safer. I do not believe that is the case.

Al-Qaeda in the Islamic Maghreb—AQM—is out to harm, kill, maim and do the worst it can against western interests, including British interests, and we have to bear that in mind. We face a terrorist threat that is made worse when we have so much ungoverned space in Mali at the same time.

[Geoffrey Clifton-Brown (The Cotswolds) (Con)]

I thank my right hon. Friend for his statement to the House this morning. Algeria is one of the biggest and most powerful countries in the region, so will he undertake to maintain the closest possible diplomatic links with it—after all, our relations with Algeria have improved considerably in recent years—to combat not only the immediate short-term humanitarian needs but the emerging jihadist threats in the Sahel and Maghreb regions?

--- Later in debate ---

[The Prime Minister]

I think my hon. Friend is entirely right. Relations between Britain and Algeria are good, contact is good, but there is always a case for doing more. We have had very good contact over the past few days but I will not hide the fact that we were disappointed not to be informed of the assault in advance. We want to help in any way we can with technical and other assistance, but we should show understanding that the Algerian Government face a huge threat from Islamist terrorists. They were facing a situation in which there was imminent threat to life, and we should bear that in mind in the comments that we make.

[Mike Gapes (Ilford South) (Lab/Co-op)]

May I thank the Prime Minister for his statement and ask him to reiterate the importance of the economic relationships between Algeria and this country? Many homes in this cold winter—not just in this country but in other parts of Europe—are heated by gas that comes from Algeria. Surely the key message is that we will not allow terrorist organisations to break or undermine that economic relationship, which is not just in Algeria’s interest but also in ours.

[The Prime Minister]

I think the hon. Gentleman puts the point extremely well. One of the most important things about our country is what an open, trading, investing country we are. British citizens live and work all over the world and, as I thought the Leader of the Opposition put particularly well, they are working hard to do the right things and we should support them in that. We must recognise that, as a result, that puts particular emphasis on the importance of our foreign and diplomatic policy, and also our military co-operation with other countries. Part of the role of government is to try to keep our citizens safe wherever they are, and in those terms the hon. Gentleman is absolutely right about the economic relationship between us and Algeria. We have many companies with huge expertise in the exploration of oil and gas. They are a major part of the British economy and we should be supportive of them. The work they do in Algeria is vital for Algeria and it is also vital for us.

[Mr John Baron (Basildon and Billericay) (Con)]

It is essential that we conduct an urgent review regarding the security of our people working in the region, liaising not just with the appropriate companies, but local Governments, too. Given the possible links between this tragedy and the situation in Mali, which has been deteriorating for some time, was a threat assessment undertaken regarding our interests in the region? If so, what action followed from that?

[The Prime Minister]

The answer I would give my hon. Friend is that we are constantly updating the threat that we face from operating in any country anywhere in the region. We have known for some time, with the growth of al-Qaeda in the Islamic Maghreb, that the threat has been growing. However, I would very much caution against any sense that—I am not sure that my hon. Friend is saying this—if we did not involve ourselves by helping the French in Mali we would somehow make ourselves safer. Britain is a country that is open to the world and is part of international partnerships. We should be working with others to help make the world safe all over the place, Mali included, because if we do not, the threat there will grow and we will face it as well.

[Gemma Doyle (West Dunbartonshire) (Lab/Co-op)]

The Prime Minister referred to an offer of assistance from the consulate. Can he advise whether it has yet been involved?

[The Prime Minister]

The consulate is involved. We have staff deployed in Algiers who want to travel further south to be closer to the events that have taken place and to help, in all ways necessary, the people caught up in this crisis. We are working very closely with BP, which will be doing the same thing, and with Statoil—I spoke to the Norwegian Prime Minister last night—which will be sending an aeroplane down there to help retrieve people as well.

[Simon Hughes (Bermondsey and Old Southwark) (LD)]

I thank the Prime Minister for his statement. I associate my colleagues with his condolences and solidarity. Many of my constituents originate from north Africa, including Algeria, and are very hard-working members of our communities here. Will he look again, with our NATO allies, at how we might build on the direction he has set on the Mediterranean dialogue that exists for linking our countries with north Africa? Also, will the Foreign and Commonwealth Office hold itself available to inform our people around the world and people resident in the UK, for example those who are from Algeria, who may be more worried than everybody else about what is happening to their country?

[The Prime Minister]

First, my right hon. Friend is absolutely right. We should keep the travel advice and information updated, and we do. He is also right to say that Algerians living and working in this country make an important contribution. His general point about working with NATO partners to see how we can further improve links and relationships with countries—Libya, Algeria, Mali and other countries in the region—should be a real focus in the months ahead. As I said, it is about diplomatic and political engagement, but military-to-military co-operation and understanding can be a real benefit too.

[Jim Fitzpatrick (Poplar and Limehouse) (Lab)]

As part of the police parliamentary scheme, I spent time earlier this week with CO15, the counter-terrorist unit at Scotland Yard. Can the Prime Minister reassure us that the Government will continue direct funding from the Home Office and the Foreign and Commonwealth Office for the excellent work that those officers do to protect us against terrorists at home and abroad? Can he also assure us that the Government will continue their efforts, particularly given Ben Macintyre’s excellent article in The Times today, to close down the space for those who would use religion, whether here or abroad, as an excuse for intolerance at best or violence at worst?

[The Prime Minister]

I have not read Ben Macintyre’s column, but I will try to do so later today. On policing, we see the work of anti-terrorist policing as absolutely vital and we will continue to prioritise it.

[Penny Mordaunt (Portsmouth North) (Con)]

I thank the Prime Minister for getting his priorities absolutely right. This is clearly a fast-moving and complex situation. Can he reassure the House that families who have a loved one caught up in these events will be able to access information about the general situation when information is available, as opposed to having to wait until there is specific news about their loved one?

[The Prime Minister]

I am very grateful to my hon. Friend for her comments. Our thoughts should be with the families. They will have had a truly dreadful few days as they think about their loved ones. I reiterate what I said: all of them have police liaison teams attached to them and they should be able to receive the latest information. I completely understand that the Government always have to strike a balance between making any comment about these events as they continue, and the dangers of doing so. There is so much other information around from other countries and other Governments that it is important to try to give a consistent and clear message about what is happening, the Government’s priorities and what we are doing to help in this very difficult situation.

[Thomas Docherty (Dunfermline and West Fife) (Lab)]

Shortly before Christmas, the Chief of the Defence Staff proposed that one of the new infantry brigades be formally assigned to do partnership work with the Gulf and Jordanian armies. Will the Prime Minister consider extending that formalised arrangement under Force 2020 to north Africa?

[The Prime Minister]

The hon. Gentleman makes an excellent suggestion. The Chief of the Defence Staff has been looking at whether there is more we can do in terms of military exercises, operations and co-operation with the countries of west Africa. Clearly, with the Mali situation it is key that Ghanaians, Nigeriens, Nigerians and others bring forward troops to help in that country. We should be thinking about what we can do to assist in that process. The strength of having regular strategic defence and security reviews is that we can ask where the threats are coming from and where we can make the greatest difference with the talented and professional armed forces we have. Those are exactly the sort of questions we should be asking.

[Adam Afriyie (Windsor) (Con)]

May I commend the Prime Minister’s decisiveness, swift action and leadership in a difficult situation? Clearly, we must defend our British citizens abroad, and I very much welcome the support given to the Algerian, French and Malian Governments. Could he say a few words about the continuing role he sees for the United Nations and our role in the Security Council with regard to this situation?

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend makes an important point about the role of the United Nations, and perhaps that enables me to answer better the question from the hon. Member for Islington North (Jeremy Corbyn) about the importance of political processes. I profoundly believe, for instance in Mali, that there is a military part to what needs to happen, which is beating back the terrorist-sponsored al-Qaeda-backed rebels. Clearly, in all situations like this, there needs to be political process as well to recognise the deep political problems that many of these countries have. In the United Nations and as a permanent member of the Security Council, we can play an important part, in co-ordination with our allies, to help to get these political processes right. However, I caution against people who think that we can find a purely political and diplomatic answer to the Malian crisis. There is also a problem, a clear and present danger, of a terrorist-backed regime trying to take over the whole of that country.

[Nick Smith (Blaenau Gwent) (Lab)]

Can the Prime Minister please tell us more about the Government’s assessment of the links between the terrorist groups in Algeria and al-Shabaab and Boko Haram?

[The Prime Minister]

The best way to answer that question is to say that all of those organisations that are linked to al-Qaeda are therefore linked to each other. Some have a tighter relationship with the senior leadership of al-Qaeda and some slightly looser, but all the groups he mentions, whether al-Qaeda in the Islamic Maghreb, Boko Haram in Nigeria or any of the other organisations, are pursuing similar goals of violent extremism, wanting to damage as harmfully as possible the interests of countries such as Britain.

[Andrea Leadsom (South Northamptonshire) (Con)]

Is my right hon. Friend able to reassure the House that not only European but all north African Governments are united in their condemnation of this terrorist action?

[The Prime Minister]

I believe that I am. The reaction from all Governments across Europe, north Africa and the wider world has been completely condemnatory of this terrorist attack. It is very important that we speak with a united voice in saying that this sort of terrorism is never justified, and, frankly, it has to be defeated. All of that cannot be done through a political process—a very important robust security response is required.

[Tom Greatrex (Rutherglen and Hamilton West) (Lab/Co-op)]

The Prime Minister has referred a couple of times to the fact that the oil and gas industry is an international industry and that there is a considerable amount of mobility of labour with British nationals working abroad and liaison with British-based companies. Can he say a little more about the assessment that has been made of the number of British nationals working in this industry, not necessarily for British-based or even western companies, who are working directly, or as subcontractors, in that region? What advice and guidance will be supplied to them?

[The Prime Minister]

First, as I said in my statement, we are working with all the oil companies and talking to them about the importance of greater security. Obviously, all the countries in which they operate will want to provide greater security. It is in the interests of the Algerians, for instance, given that a large percentage of their economy is provided by oil and gas, that those companies should be able to operate properly there. From my experience of this episode, I think that there is perhaps more we need to do to ensure that the companies have a really good, up-to-date record of all the people who work for them and who work for any subcontractors, so that if anything goes wrong, we can have the swiftest possible information about who is involved and who is safe. On this occasion, there were some issues and difficulties around that.

[Jake Berry (Rossendale and Darwen) (Con)]

I thank the Prime Minister for his statement to the House this morning. He referred to an agreement that he has been able to obtain from the Algerian Prime Minister for our diplomatic mission to go south as soon as possible. He also referred to the remoteness of the region involved. Will he tell us when that is due to happen, and whether he thinks that it will improve the flow of information back to the families?

[The Prime Minister]

We hope that our ambassador and others in the diplomatic team will be able to travel further south today; the ambassador has a plane on stand-by to do exactly that. I think that that will help us to get more information about what has happened, but we are clearly still dealing with a very fluid and dangerous situation. Part of the terrorist threat has been eliminated in one part of the site, but the threat remains in another part. Until that is completely sorted out, we will not get the perfect information that we require about the exact number of hostages and the difficult facts about who is safe and who is not. I hope that we will be able to say more later today, but we simply cannot do so at the moment. We will have to wait for the outcome before we can do that.

[Frank Dobson (Holborn and St Pancras) (Lab)]

May I join others in thanking the Prime Minister for his statement and for his clear understanding of the dilemmas faced by the Algerian Government? Will he tell us whether, in the light of the recent rise in tension in the area, any oil companies operating in Algeria have sought extra security measures either from the Algerian Government or from their home Governments?

[The Prime Minister]

I cannot give the right hon. Gentleman that assurance today. The Government make an ongoing assessment of risk based on the intelligence that comes through and is properly analysed by the joint terrorism analysis centre, and companies as large as BP also spend a serious amount of time thinking about security and risk. The right hon. Gentleman asks a good question, and I will certainly look into that for him.

[Henry Smith (Crawley) (Con)]

I commend my right hon. Friend for his statement. This terrorist attack is likely to have been domestically planned in Algeria, but given the proximity to the Libyan border, what evidence is there of the wider involvement of factions in other states?

[The Prime Minister]

I do not think we can be certain about where this was planned. We know that there are real connections between Islamist extremist militants in Algeria and those in Libya. We also know that there are very real connections between those in Algeria and those in Mali. The fact is that these are all part of terrorist networks and, as I have said, they use whatever available ungoverned space there is in order to plan, build and thrive. If we look across the region, we can see that we need to back the French and the west African countries that want to improve the security situation in Mali. We also need to work with the new Libyan Government to reduce the quantity of ungoverned spaces there, and to ensure that there is proper security in that country and that weapons are properly accounted for. Obviously, we need to thicken our contacts and work well with the Algerians to help them in their long-running battle against terror. If we can do all those things, and probably more besides, we will have helped to make that part of the world safer and more secure, which would be good for that part of the world itself and good for us, too.

[Sir Robert Smith]

Oil and gas companies might seem big and remote, but the people who work for them are part of a close-knit global family. Many of my constituents commute to countries such as Algeria while their families stay at home. Does the Prime Minister recognise the extra stress that is put on those families when there is a shortage of information and people start to speculate about worst-case scenarios? Would it not be better to keep speculation to a minimum while the information is being sought, so that only accurate and coherent information is given to the families?

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. Many people from this country work in far-flung places to provide for themselves and their families, and we need to support them and think of them as they do that. He is also right to say that we must be careful not to give out information that could be unhelpful in any way. We have to remember that the terrorists watch CNN as well, as someone said yesterday. I also respect the fact that we need to be extremely careful in what we say, because of the families sitting at home worrying desperately about their loved ones. This is a difficult balance, which the Government will always try to get right, because there is so much information being provided in the global news environment in so many different ways. Just as there is a danger in saying something, there is also a danger in saying nothing. We have to try to balance that very carefully, and that is what we have tried to do in recent days.

[Stephen Phillips (Sleaford and North Hykeham) (Con)]

I also thank my right hon. Friend for his statement. He indicated that additional consular support was on the way. Those in the region might be aware of this statement, so will he tell us how that support can be accessed by those people? Will he also tell us how those at home who do not have a police liaison team attached to them but who might be concerned about people in the region can access information from the Foreign and Commonwealth Office?

[The Prime Minister]

First, let me be clear that all the families caught up in this tragedy do have access to a police liaison team. That is extremely important. For anyone else who is concerned about loved ones or others in the region and who wants advice, the best place to get it is from British embassies or consulates. The Foreign Office website also has all the necessary travel advice. I should make it clear that, in regard to the travel advice for Algeria, the areas of that country where only essential travel is advised are the dangerous border areas. That should be made clear.

[Kris Hopkins (Keighley) (Con)]

I thank the Prime Minister for his statement. Following the apparent reluctance of Algeria to receive assistance, is the time approaching when an international force should be developed to respond to terrorist attacks such as these, perhaps under the auspices of the United Nations? That could give countries such as Algeria confidence about our intentions.

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend makes an important point, but there are difficulties with this. In the end, we have to respect the fact that different countries have territorial integrity and have to make decisions that they think are in the interests of their own people and their own countries. What we should be doing is trying to ensure that, in every case, there is the best possible contact and relationship between countries such as ours—where, regrettably, for reasons of history, we have had to develop real expertise in hostage rescue and negotiation—and other countries. Obviously, we do not have the resources to have such a relationship with every country, but we should be working with allies such as the French and the Americans and thinking about where best we can add value in those sorts of relationships. For example, we have a very strong relationship with Nigeria on that front. There is perhaps also an opportunity in the G8 and at other international gatherings including NATO to work out how we can all do more, so that when these dreadful crises occur, access to the best available technology, surveillance, advice and help can be more easily delivered.

[Mark Reckless (Rochester and Strood) (Con)]

I congratulate the Prime Minister on his calm and assured response throughout the crisis. In co-ordinating our response, how many of the Cobra meetings has he had to chair personally?

[The Prime Minister]

Cobra brings together officials from across government, the Ministry of Defence, our armed forces, the police and the security services, and it can meet on an almost rolling basis in terms of bringing the latest information and intelligence to bear. It meets under official guise very regularly. I have chaired three Cobra meetings so far during this crisis, and there will be another one later today to bring together the latest intelligence and information. I would like to take this opportunity to thank those in the British Government who have been working round the clock to try and get the latest information so that the right decisions can be made.

[Harriett Baldwin (West Worcestershire) (Con)]

To what extent does the intelligence confirm the supposition that the planning for this appalling atrocity must have long predated the French incursion into Mali last week?

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend asks an important question. It is difficult to give a certain answer, but given the scale of the terrorist attack on this gas installation in Algeria, the number of people involved and the sophistication of the weapons used, it looks like it was some time in the planning. As I have said, however, it would be ill-thought through to say, even if there was a connection with Mali, that we are wrong to help roll back terrorist advances in Mali because it might threaten us elsewhere. That is entirely wrong-headed thinking. We should be in favour of rolling back terrorist advances in Mali because it will help make us safer elsewhere as we squeeze the ungoverned space and recognise that these terrorists should have no place to hide.

[Mr Philip Hollobone (Kettering) (Con)]

I commend the Prime Minister for his level-headed, energetic and resolute response to these developments. The west will not solve the problem of Islamic insurgency in the Sahara on its own. Given the colonial heritage of the African continent and the fact that this insurgency is taking place across borders, is there a role for both the British Commonwealth and the French Commonwealth within the African Union to ensure that ultimately there is an African solution to this problem?

[The Prime Minister]

I am grateful for my hon. Friend’s remarks. He makes an important point about how France and Britain in particular should work together. Obviously, it is better to find African solutions, whether in Somalia, where neighbouring African nations have played an important role, or in Mali, where we hope that west African countries will play a role, but clearly countries such as Britain and France, with good relations, good contacts, good knowledge of African countries and good partnerships with them, should be working together. There are opportunities to put aside some of the traditional divisions between Anglophone and Francophone Africa and recognise that it is in our interest to boost the capacity of all African states to help deal with these problems. We should work very closely with the French as we do that.

[Philip Davies (Shipley) (Con)]

Further to the question from my hon. Friend the Member for Keighley (Kris Hopkins), there might be some concern that the Algerian Government did not take up my right hon. Friend’s offer for the use of British special forces. Does he know why that offer was not taken up, and what assessment have the Government made of the expertise and capability of the Algerian forces to secure the release of the maximum number of hostages, given that so many British citizens are in danger?

[The Prime Minister]

First, let me be clear: of course, we offered to help and assist the Algerians in any way we could. Obviously, there are limitations on what we can do, given the logistics and time it takes to put teams together and get people to the other side of the world. On the Algerians themselves, we should show some respect for and understanding of the fact that that country has fought a long civil war against the most aggressive and violent form of militant Islam. We should also recognise that, yes, we have expertise and pride ourselves on the brilliance of our special forces, but clearly the Algerians felt that they had to make decisions very quickly and felt that there was an urgent threat to life, so decided to act as they did. As I said, I regret that we were not informed in advance, and of course the offers to help were, and still are, there, but we have to understand that it was about the danger they faced and they felt they had to act.

[Mr David Nuttall (Bury North) (Con)]

I thank the Prime Minister for his statement this morning and for his calm, assured and dignified leadership at this difficult time. I know the whole country will agree that he has made exactly the right call by being here this morning. It is too early to know whether any families in my constituency have been affected directly, but I know that all their thoughts and prayers will be with those families who have been.

What assessment has the Prime Minister made of the risk of a similar hostage incident taking place elsewhere in the region?

[The Prime Minister]

I am grateful for my hon. Friend’s remarks. The advice we have received is that there is a realistic threat of other such attacks in the region and against similar types of installations, and we have to guard against that. That is why we have had discussions with the oil companies and with Governments about what more they can do. We have to recognise that we face a terrorist threat across the region and the world, and because of this event we should be very wary and recognise that further such attacks are possible.

URENCO

Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton Excerpts

Thursday 17th January 2013 Written Statements

[The Prime Minister (Mr David Cameron)]

I am today confirming a machinery of government change concerning the management of the Government’s stake in the uranium enrichment company URENCO.

Responsibility for this is moving from the Department of Energy and Climate Change to the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills.

Oral Answers to Questions

Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton Excerpts

Wednesday 16th January 2013 Commons Chamber

[John Glen (Salisbury) (Con)]

Q1. If he will list his official engagements for Wednesday 16 January.

[The Prime Minister (Mr David Cameron)]

I am sure the whole House will wish to join me in paying tribute to Sapper Richard Reginald Walker of 28 Engineer Regiment, attached to 21 Engineer Regiment. It is clear to see from the tributes paid that he was an outstanding soldier and hugely respected. Our deepest sympathies are with his family and friends at this difficult time.

I would also like to mention the helicopter crash in central London this morning. The whole House will wish to join me in sending our thanks to the emergency services for their rapid and professional response to this situation.

This morning, I had meetings with ministerial colleagues and others, and in addition to my duties in this House, I shall have further such meetings later today.

[John Glen]

For too long many women, and especially hard-working stay-at-home mums, have been penalised by the country’s pension system for interruptions to their national insurance contributions. After 13 years in which the previous Government did nothing to address this situation, does the Prime Minister think that this week’s announcement of a single-tier pension will finally deal with this grave injustice?

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend makes an important point. The single-tier pension is an excellent reform. I very much hope it will have all-party support, because it holds out the prospect in 2017 of a basic state pension of over £140 rather than £107, taking millions of people out of the means test, giving them dignity in retirement and particularly, as my hon. Friend says, helping low-paid and self-employed people and, above all, women who have not been able to have a full state pension in the past. It is an excellent reform, and I hope it will have the support of everyone across the House.

[Edward Miliband (Doncaster North) (Lab)]

I join the Prime Minister in paying tribute to Sapper Richard Reginald Walker of 28 Engineer Regiment, attached to 21 Engineer Regiment. He showed the utmost courage and bravery, and all our thoughts are with his family and friends.

I also join the Prime Minister in passing on condolences to the families of those who lost their lives in the helicopter crash in London this morning and in paying tribute to the emergency services.

When the Prime Minister first became leader of the Conservative party, he said that its biggest problem was that it spent far too much of its time “banging on” about Europe. Is he glad those days are over?

[Hon. Members]

Hear, hear!

[The Prime Minister]

Even the leader of the Labour party should accept that a massive change is taking place in Europe: a change that is being driven by the changes in the eurozone. Frankly, the country, and political parties in this country, face a choice. Do we look at the changes, see what we can do to maximise Britain’s national interest, and consult the public about that, or do we sit back, do nothing, and tell the public to go hang? I know where I stand; I know where this party stands—and that is in the national interest.

[Edward Miliband]

Let us hope we can find out today where the Prime Minister does stand. I suppose I should congratulate him on one thing—deciding on the date of his speech. Well done. Another example of the Rolls-Royce operation of No. 10 Downing street.

In advance of his speech, what is the Prime Minister’s answer, which investors need to know, to this question: will Britain be in the European Union in five years’ time?

[The Prime Minister]

On important decisions, may I first of all congratulate the right hon. Gentleman on an important decision that he has made this week—to keep the shadow Chancellor in place until 2015. [Hon. Members: “Hear, hear!”] Rarely do we see so much cross-party support.

My view is that Britain is better off in the European Union, but it is right for us to see the changes taking place in Europe, and to ensure that we argue for the changes that Britain needs, so that we have a better relationship between Britain and Europe, a better organised European Union, and the full-hearted consent of the British people. Those are the choices that we are making. What are his choices?

[Edward Miliband]

Maybe we are making a bit of progress. In October 2011, as I am sure the Prime Minister will remember, he and I walked shoulder to shoulder through the Lobby against the 81 Conservative Members who voted for an in/out referendum. You might call it two parties working together in the national interest. At the time, the Foreign Secretary—I think he is on his way to Australia to get as far away from the Prime Minister’s speech as possible—said that the reason for our vote was that an in/out referendum

“would create additional economic uncertainty in this country at a difficult economic time”.

Was the Foreign Secretary right?

[The Prime Minister]

Yes, he was entirely right. It is interesting that the Leader of the Opposition only wants to talk about process, because he dare not debate the substance. I do not think it would be right for Britain to have an in/out referendum today, because we would be giving the British people a false choice. Millions of people in this country, myself included, want Britain to stay in the European Union, but they believe that there are chances to negotiate a better relationship. Throughout Europe, countries are looking at forthcoming treaty change and thinking, “What can I do to maximise my national interest?” That is what the Germans will do. That is what the Spanish will do. That is what the British should do. Let us get on to the substance and give up the feeble jokes.

[Edward Miliband]

First of all, I thought the jokes were pretty good. But I am talking about the substance. The Prime Minister’s position appears to be this: an in/out referendum now would be destabilising, but promising one in five years’ time is just fine for the country. Let us see if that is his position, because what does it mean? It means five years of businesses seeing a “Closed for Business” sign hanging around Britain. What did Lord Heseltine say—[Interruption.] I know that Conservative Members want to jeer Lord Heseltine, one of the few mainstream voices in the Conservative party. He said:

“To commit to a referendum about a negotiation that hasn’t begun on a timescale you cannot predict, on an outcome that’s unknown…seems to me like an unnecessary gamble.”

Is he not right?

[The Prime Minister]

It is absolutely no secret that, when it comes to Europe, there are disagreements between me and Michael Heseltine. Michael, for whom I have a huge amount of time, was one of the leading voices for Britain joining the single currency. I am delighted that we have not joined, and we should not join—under my prime ministership, we will never join the single currency—and that is also the view of millions of businesses up and down this country. What business wants in Europe is what I want in Europe: to be part of Europe, but a more flexible Europe, a more competitive Europe, a Europe that can take on the challenge of the global race and the rise of nations in the south and the east.

Let me put it to the right hon. Gentleman again. When change is taking place in Europe and when the single currency is driving change, is it not in Britain’s national interest to argue for changes which will make the European Union more competitive and flexible, and which will strengthen and sort out the relationship between Britain and the European Union, and then to ask the British people for their consent?

That is our approach. Apart from coming up with what he considers to be very amusing jokes, what is the right hon. Gentleman’s approach?

[Edward Miliband]

The biggest change that we need in Europe is a move from austerity to growth and jobs, but the Prime Minister has absolutely nothing to say about that. This is the reality: the reason the Prime Minister is changing his mind has nothing to do with the national interest. It is because he has lost control of his party. He thinks that his problems on Europe will end on Friday, but they are only just beginning. Can he confirm that he is now giving the green light to Conservative Cabinet Ministers to campaign on different positions—on whether they are for or against being in the European Union?

[The Prime Minister]

The right hon. Gentleman tries to make the point that Europe should somehow be moving away from the policy of deficit reduction. He is completely isolated in Europe. Not one single Government—not even socialists in Europe—believe in pushing up borrowing and borrowing more. That is the simple truth. What is in Britain’s interests is to seek a fresh settlement in Europe that is more flexible and more competitive. That is in our interests, and that is what we will seek.

Let me ask the right hon. Gentleman this: does he not understand that what has happened over the last decade—during which a Labour Government signed treaty after treaty, gave away power after power, saw more centralisation after more centralisation, and never consulted the British people—is what has made this problem such a big problem in the first place?

[Edward Miliband]

The whole House, and the country, will have heard that the Prime Minister did not answer the question about whether he had given the green light to his Cabinet—to his Conservative Cabinet colleagues—for some of them to campaign for being in the European Union and others to campaign for getting out of it. That is the reality of the position, and of the weakness of this Prime Minister. At a time when 1 million young people are out of work and businesses are going to the wall, what is the Prime Minister doing? He has spent six months preparing a speech to create five years of uncertainty for Britain. When it comes to Europe, it is the same old Tories: a divided party, and a weak Prime Minister.

[The Prime Minister]

The right hon. Gentleman has absolutely nothing to say about the important issue of Britain’s relationship with Europe. What is his view? [Interruption.]

[Mr Speaker]

Order. The response from the Prime Minister must be heard, and it will be.

[The Prime Minister]

There will be a very simple choice at the next election. If you want to stay out of the single currency, you vote Conservative; if you want to join the single currency, you vote Labour. If you want to take power back to Britain, you vote Conservative; if you want to give power to Brussels, you vote Labour. That is the truth. What we see from the right hon. Gentleman’s position is that he wants absolutely no change in the relationship between Britain and Europe, and that he does not believe that the British people should be given a choice.

[Mark Pawsey (Rugby) (Con)]

Q15. The Prime Minister has rightly focused the Government on growth. The development of new housing plays a key part in the provision of that growth, as well as the provision of much-needed new homes. In my constituency, two developments will provide 8,000 new homes between them. Will the Prime Minister join me in praising Rugby borough council’s attitude to new development, and perhaps visit Rugby to see how we are going about it?

[The Prime Minister]

I should be delighted to visit my hon. Friend in Rugby. He is absolutely right to say that we need to build more houses in our country. That is because, unless they have help from their parents, first-time buyers are now, on average, in their thirties. We need to build more homes in order to allow people to achieve the dream, which so many have already achieved, of getting on to the housing ladder.

[Mr David Lammy (Tottenham) (Lab)]

Q2. In 2010 the Prime Minister and his party said it was lying and scaremongering to suggest they would reduce family tax credits for families earning less than £31,000, but we found out last week that the threshold will, in fact, be £26,000. Will the Prime Minister apologise to families he has failed to protect and has made poorer while he has been in government?

[The Prime Minister]

This Government have had to make difficult decisions on public spending and welfare, but we have protected those on the lowest incomes and we have made sure there have been increases in some areas. That is what we have done with child tax credits, and it is a record we should support.

[Laura Sandys (South Thanet) (Con)]

Q3. The residents of Thanet enjoy burgers but also love horses. They will have been shocked to hear this morning that they may have been eating horsemeat. Will the Prime Minister assure us that he and his Government are doing a lot to reassure the diners of Thanet?

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend raises a very important and extremely serious issue. People in our country will have been very concerned to read this morning that while they thought they were buying beefburgers, they were buying something that had horsemeat in it. That is extremely disturbing news. I have asked the Food Standards Agency to conduct an urgent investigation. It has made it clear that there is no risk to public safety, because there is no food safety risk, but this is a completely unacceptable state of affairs. The FSA will meet retailers and processors this afternoon and work with them to investigate the supply chain, but it is worth making the point that, ultimately, retailers have to be responsible for what they sell and where it has come from.

[Kate Hoey (Vauxhall) (Lab)]

May I thank the Prime Minister and the Leader of the Opposition for their condolences to the families of those who died in this morning’s helicopter crash in my constituency, and add my condolences and sympathy? Does the Prime Minister agree that amazing work was done this morning, particularly by the fire service? Firefighters from Clapham station arrived very swiftly. Given London’s changing skyline, does he also agree that—not today, but at some stage—we will need to look much more closely at where, how and why helicopters fly through our central city?

[The Prime Minister]

The hon. Lady is absolutely right to praise the emergency services once again. I think everyone could see from the terrifying pictures on our television screens this morning just how swiftly they responded, and how brave and professional they were. On her point about the rules for helicopter flights—and, indeed, other flights over our capital city—I am sure that will be looked at in the investigations that will take place. She is right that that is not an issue for today, but it is inevitably something that has to be carefully looked at.

[Mary Macleod (Brentford and Isleworth) (Con)]

Q4. Last week I organised an entrepreneurship seminar in Chiswick for women wanting to set up their own businesses, and one of the questions they asked was about the cost of child care. This Government have extended 15 hours of care to the most disadvantaged quarter of a million two-year-olds and extended that to three and four-year-olds. Does that not show that this Government are supporting families and women who want to work?

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend makes an important point. Over the past couple of years we have seen one of the fastest rates of new business creation in our history, but we do need to encourage female entrepreneurship in particular, because if we had the same rate as other countries we could help to wipe out unemployment all together. As my hon. Friend said, we do help families with two, three and four-year-olds with child care. We also help through the tax credit system and, as the House knows, we are looking at what more we can do for hard-working people who want to go out to work and need help with child care in order to ensure they can do the right thing for their children and families.

[Sarah Champion (Rotherham) (Lab)]

When will the Prime Minister visit a food bank? He is most welcome to come to Rotherham.

[The Prime Minister]

Let me say again that we should recognise and welcome the work that food banks do. The last Government rightly recognised that through giving food banks an award. [Interruption.] As this question has been asked, and as some hon. Members shout out a lot about food banks, let me remind them of one simple fact: the use of food banks went up tenfold under the last Labour Government, so before Opposition Members try to use this as a political weapon they should recognise it started under their own Government.

[Geoffrey Clifton-Brown (The Cotswolds) (Con)]

Q5. The National Star college in my constituency provides world-renowned care for some of our disabled youngsters with the most profound and complex learning difficulties to enable them to lead independent lives. Sadly, its future, like that of a few similar colleges, is being placed in jeopardy by a decision not to ring-fence its funding. I am sure that my right hon. Friend will wish to solve this problem, so may I invite him to the college to see this wonderful care for himself?

[The Prime Minister]

I am very happy to discuss this issue with my constituency neighbour, who rightly praises the fantastic work carried out by the National Star college. It does an excellent job in improving the life chances of young people. I know that the college has concerns about the new funding system and that my hon. Friend has contacted the Minister responsible. We are changing the way in which funding is allocated, but that does not necessarily mean that the funding will be cut. I am very happy to discuss this with my hon. Friend, but the new funding system does allow local authorities to have more say in how the funding is distributed, and I am sure they will want to recognise excellent work, including from this national college.

[Jeremy Corbyn (Islington North) (Lab)]

Q6. Is the Prime Minister aware of the trauma facing thousands of families, particularly in London, who live in private rented accommodation, where the housing benefit payments do not meet the rapidly increasing rents? These people are then forced out of their homes and out of their boroughs, and the community suffers as a result, as does the children’s education. Does he not think it is time to regulate private sector rents and bring in a fair rents policy in this country, so that families are not forced out of the communities where they and their families have lived for a very long time?

[The Prime Minister]

The hon. Gentleman must recognise that we inherited a housing benefit system in London that was completely out of control; some families were getting as much as £104,000 a year—that is for one family for one year. Even today we are still spending about £6 billion on housing benefit in London. We have to recognise that higher levels of housing benefit and higher rents were chasing each other upwards in a spiral. I do not support the idea of mass rent controls, because I think we would see a massive decline in the private rented sector, which is what happened the last time we had such rent controls. We need proper regulation of housing benefit, and we need to make sure that we have a competitive system for private sector renting and that we build more flats and houses.

[Mr Alan Reid (Argyll and Bute) (LD)]

The deficit has to be brought down, but if tax credits and benefits are capped for the next three years at 1%, people on low incomes will be left vulnerable to increases in food and energy prices. If prices go up by more than expected, what contingency plans do the Government have for benefits and tax credits?

[The Prime Minister]

The most important thing is to make sure that people are getting a good deal on energy prices, which is why we are going to be legislating to make companies put people on the lowest available tariffs. That is something the Government are doing that will help all families.

[Keith Vaz (Leicester East) (Lab)]

Q7. As a diabetic, may I welcome the fact that last year the Prime Minister lit up No. 10 for the first time on world diabetes day? One third of all primary school leavers are either obese or overweight, yet they still consume cans of Coke and Pepsi that contain up to eight teaspoons of sugar. What steps is he proposing to take to engage manufacturers in a war against sugar? If we do not act now, the next generation will be overwhelmed by a diabetes epidemic?

[The Prime Minister]

The right hon. Gentleman is absolutely right to raise this issue, which is one of the biggest public health challenges that we face in our country, and to highlight the problem of excessive consumption of sugar. That is why we challenged business, through our responsibility deal, to try to reduce levels of sugar, and that has had some effect. We have in place a diabetes action plan, which is about how we improve early diagnosis, how we better integrate care and how we provide better support. But, frankly, this is one of those health challenges that is not just a challenge for the health service; it is a challenge for local authorities, for schools and for parents, too. As someone who is trying to bring up three children without excessive amounts of Coca-Cola, I know exactly how big this challenge is.

[Gareth Johnson (Dartford) (Con)]

Twenty years ago this week, Claire Tiltman, a 16-year-old pupil at Dartford grammar school for girls, was stabbed to death in my constituency. Nobody has ever been convicted of the crime. Both her parents subsequently died never knowing who had taken their only child from them. Will the Prime Minister assure the House that this Government will continue to provide full assistance to Kent police to help bring justice in the case of one of Britain’s most brutal unsolved murders?

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend is right to raise this case, which is particularly tragic because, as he says, the girl’s parents have both died. Of course we will do everything we can, but above all it is for anyone who knows anything about this case to talk to Kent police, because in the end it is their responsibility to try to solve the case. As for taking action to deal with appalling knife crimes such as this, as my hon. Friend knows, the Government have taken a set of important actions.

[Robert Flello (Stoke-on-Trent South) (Lab)]

Q8. Thirty-nine people suspected of serious child sex offences who fled the country have been brought back to Britain quickly under the European arrest warrant to face justice. Sadly, many of the Prime Minister’s Back Benchers want to scrap the European arrest warrant, making it easier for paedophiles to escape justice. Will he today categorically rule that out?

[The Prime Minister]

As the hon. Gentleman knows, we have the opportunity to work out which of the home affairs parts of the European Union we want to opt out of and which ones we want to opt back into. That is rightly being discussed in the Government and in the House, and I am sure they will listen very carefully to his arguments.

[Annette Brooke (Mid Dorset and North Poole) (LD)]

Great progress is being made in improving the rights of park home owners, many of whom are vulnerable and on low incomes. Currently they are not eligible for the green deal. Will the Prime Minister ask his civil servants to investigate this matter to make sure that assistance with energy efficiency is available to everybody who needs it?

[The Prime Minister]

I will look very carefully at what my hon. Friend says. This Government have taken some steps forward on the rights of park home owners, of whom I have some in my own constituency and therefore know how important it is that we get the balance of law right. I will look at her point about the green deal, a very important measure to try to help people with their energy efficiency and to keep their bills down. We want it to be available to as many people as possible.

[Grahame M. Morris (Easington) (Lab)]

Q9. Yesterday Sir Bruce Keogh, medical director of the NHS, told the Public Accounts Committee that GPs were imposing unjustified restrictions on cataract operations. It seems that the Prime Minister and his reorganisation are taking the NHS back to the 1980s, when the NHS was the sick man of Europe. Will he take this opportunity to apologise to elderly people who are waiting unnecessarily for their cataract operations?

[The Prime Minister]

Compared with 2010-11, last year there were 400,000 extra operations in our NHS. Across our NHS, there are 5,000 more doctors and 5,000 fewer administrators. We have got the level of mixed-sex wards right down. The level of hospital-acquired infections—[Interruption.] The point that I am making, which I know the Opposition do not want to hear, is that the NHS is improving under this Government because we are putting the money in and they would take the money out.

[Mr Douglas Carswell (Clacton) (Con)]

Q10. Many of us were inspired by the Prime Minister’s speech on political reform delivered in Milton Keynes when we were in opposition. He promised to make politicians more outwardly and properly accountable to the people. To make that happen, we were promised a system of open primary selection, which has already had such a refreshing effect in the constituencies of Totnes and Gosport. When does the Prime Minister expect a system of full-blown open primaries to be in place more widely, as promised in the coalition agreement?

[The Prime Minister]

I do support the use of open primaries. As my hon. Friend says, in the Conservative party we had a number of open primaries. I hope all parties can look at the issue and debate how we can encourage maximum participation, including in the selection of candidates.

[Hugh Bayley (York Central) (Lab)]

Q11. Let us talk about Europe and the national interest. Millions of British women would be hit by the proposal in today’s Conservative Fresh Start report to opt out of the EU law on equal pay. Will the Prime Minister rule out such an opt-out today?

[The Prime Minister]

As I explained at the beginning of Prime Minister’s questions, the Government have massively helped women through the single-tier pension. I will look very carefully at the proposal that the hon. Gentleman mentions and I will write to him.

[Mr Gary Streeter (South West Devon) (Con)]

Q12. I know my right hon. Friend is aware of the extreme flooding suffered in the west country in November and December last year, impacting many homes and businesses and sweeping away the rail link between the west country and London, leaving us cut off for several days. Will he please ensure that our Government take every step necessary to improve the resilience of this vital rail link so that we never get cut off again?

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right to raise this question. I am well aware of how bad the flooding was and I went to Buckfastleigh to see how badly the town had been flooded for myself. I know that my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Transport has discussed the recent flooding with Network Rail’s chair and chief executive, and he will visit the area soon to look at this. We are working with Network Rail to improve the resilience of the overall network and we will do everything we can to ensure that these important services are maintained, even when they are challenged by floods such as those we saw last year.

[Ms Margaret Ritchie (South Down) (SDLP)]

Does the Prime Minister accept that a statement on Europe designed to be populist runs the risk of polarising this House, undermining key UK relations with America, confusing and alienating our friends and partners in Europe and, disastrously, starting a process that sleepwalks the UK out of Europe?

[The Prime Minister]

I think the most dangerous thing for this country would be to bury our head in the sand and pretend there is not a debate about Britain’s future in Europe. The most dangerous thing for this country would be to see the changes taking place in Europe because of the single currency and to stand back and say that we are going to do nothing about them. What Britain should be doing is getting in there and fighting for the changes we want so that we can ask for the consent of the British people to settle this issue once and for all.

[Peter Aldous (Waveney) (Con)]

Q13. Will the Prime Minister tell the House what the Government are doing to keep pensioners warm in this cold weather and will he join me in congratulating the Suffolk Foundation on the great success of its “surviving winter” campaign?

[The Prime Minister]

This Government have given the biggest increase in the basic state pension—an increase of £5.30 a week last year. We have kept the winter fuel payments, we have kept the cold weather payments at the higher level and we are replacing the Warm Front scheme with the energy company obligation, or ECO. Although the Warm Front scheme helped some 80,000 houses a year, the ECO could help up to 230,000 houses a year. That is what we are doing, that is how we are helping old people, and it is a record we should be proud of.

[Dan Jarvis (Barnsley Central) (Lab)]

Q14. The Prime Minister should know that the Office for National Statistics recently released figures that showed 24,000—24,000—extra cold weather deaths over the winter of 2011-12. The majority of those who perished were over the age of 75. Does the Prime Minister think that his Government should do more to help the elderly and the vulnerable and less to help millionaires through tax cuts?

[The Prime Minister]

As I just said, we are doing more to help the elderly and the vulnerable, with a record increase in the basic state pension that was bigger than what the Opposition would have done under their rules. We are keeping the cold weather payments at the higher level, which the previous Government only introduced before the election. We are keeping our promise on winter fuel payments. We are taking all those steps and ensuring—again, this is something that was never done by the Labour party—that energy companies will have to put people on the lowest tariffs. That is a record we can be proud of.

[Steve Baker (Wycombe) (Con)]

Tarn-Pure, a business in my constituency, is enduring a hideous regulatory farce thanks to the Health and Safety Executive and the European Union. Will my right hon. Friend remind the CBI that the British economy is very reliant on small and medium-sized businesses, which are far less able to cope with bad regulation, particularly when it is badly administered in the UK?

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. Businesses large and small are complaining about the burden of regulation, not just from Europe but more generally, and that is why we should be fighting in Europe for a more flexible, competitive Europe in which we see regulations coming off rather than always going on. The view of the Opposition is that we should sit back, do nothing, accept the status quo and never listen to the British people or British business, either.

Appointment to the UK Delegation to the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe

Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton Excerpts

Tuesday 15th January 2013 Written Statements

[The Prime Minister (Mr David Cameron)]

The hon. Member for Hornchurch and Upminster (Dame Angela Watkinson) has been appointed as a full member of the United Kingdom Delegation to the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe in place of the hon. Member for North East Hertfordshire (Oliver Heald).

The hon. Member for Heywood and Middleton (Jim Dobbin) has also been appointed as a full member in place of the hon. Member for Newport West (Paul Flynn), who becomes a substitute member.

The right hon. Member for Chesham and Amersham (Mrs Gillan), the hon. Member for Bromley and Chislehurst (Robert Neill), the hon. Member for Cardiff North (Jonathan Evans), the hon. Member for Bolton North East (Mr Crausby) and the hon. Member for Halifax (Mrs Riordan) have been appointed as substitute members in place of the hon. Member for East Surrey (Mr Gyimah), the hon. Member for Devizes (Claire Perry), the hon. Member for Hastings and Rye (Amber Rudd), the hon. Member for Stockport (Ann Coffey) and the hon. Member for Bolton South East (Yasmin Qureshi).

Baroness Wilcox and Baroness Buscombe have been appointed as substitute members in place of Lord Ahmad and Lord Boswell.

UK G8 Presidency

Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton Excerpts

Wednesday 9th January 2013 Written Statements

[The Prime Minister (Mr David Cameron)]

The UK’s priority during our 2013 presidency of the G8 is to drive jobs, growth and prosperity in the global economy. To achieve this, the UK will use its commitment to open economies, open Governments and open societies and work with our G8 partners to support free trade, tackle tax evasion and encourage greater transparency and accountability.

I have placed in the Libraries of both Houses a copy of the letter that I have sent to my fellow OS leaders setting out in more detail the UK’s priorities.

Oral Answers to Questions

Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton Excerpts

Wednesday 19th December 2012 Commons Chamber

[Oliver Colvile (Plymouth, Sutton and Devonport) (Con)]

Q1. If he will list his official engagements for Wednesday 19 December.

[The Prime Minister (Mr David Cameron)]

Before listing my engagements, I am sure that the whole House will wish to join me in sending our best wishes for Christmas to our brave armed forces in Afghanistan and elsewhere. To their families, who will be missing them, and to the servicemen and women around the world, you are always in our thoughts, we owe you a deep debt of gratitude, and we send our heartfelt thanks at Christmas time.

This morning I had meetings with ministerial colleagues and others, and in addition to my duties in this House I shall have further such meetings later today.

[Oliver Colvile]

I thank my right hon. Friend for wishing a merry Christmas to our servicemen and women on deployment and to their families. Will he tell us what progress Sir John Holmes has made in his review of medals, especially for those who served on the Arctic convoys with bravery and endeavour?

[The Prime Minister]

I thank my hon. Friend for his remarks about our troops. On the issue of medals, which has gone on for a very long time, I am delighted to be able to tell the House that we have reached a resolution. I asked Sir John to conduct a review not just of medals in general but specifically of one of the most important cases. He has completed his work and I thank him for what he has done. More details will come from the Ministry of Defence in the new year, including how veterans can apply, but I am very pleased to tell the House the following. On the Arctic convoys, Sir John has recommended, and I fully agree, that there should be an Arctic Convoy Star medal. I am very pleased that some of the brave men of the Arctic convoys will get the recognition they so richly deserve for the very dangerous work they did.

On Bomber Command, Sir John concluded that they had been treated inconsistently with those who served in Fighter Command and has therefore recommended, and I agree, that the heroic aircrews of Bomber Command should be awarded a Bomber Command clasp. I know that these announcements will be widely welcomed across the House. I pay tribute to my hon. Friends the Members for Portsmouth North (Penny Mordaunt) and for Gosport (Caroline Dinenage) and Members on both sides of the House who have campaigned hard on these issues. I am glad that we have reached a resolution, and one that is popular and right.

[Edward Miliband (Doncaster North) (Lab)]

I start by joining the Prime Minister in paying tribute to our troops in Afghanistan, who continue to show such huge courage and bravery. It is particularly important at this time of year to remember them and their families, many of whom will be separated from them. Their families, too, are in all our thoughts.

I also welcome the Government’s expected announcement today on reducing the number of troops in Afghanistan during 2013; we await the Defence Secretary’s statement. Can the Prime Minister tell the House how many British troops and civilian staff will be left in Afghanistan after the 2014 deadline, and can he confirm whether they will be there under Afghan-led command?

[The Prime Minister]

I join the Leader of the Opposition in welcoming what our troops do. Specifically on Afghanistan, we have two decisions to make. The first is about the draw-down of troops between now and the end of 2014. The Defence Secretary will announce that because of the success of our forces and Afghan national security forces and the fact that we are moving from mentoring at battalion level to mentoring at brigade level by the end of 2013, we will be able to see troops come home in two relatively even steps—2013 and 2014—probably leaving around 5,200 troops after the end of 2013, compared with the 9,000 we have there now. It is a good moment to pay tribute again to the incredible work they have done, many of them going back for tour after tour, and those I have spoken to recently have been particularly impressed by the capacity of the Afghan national forces.

In terms of post-2014, we have not made final decisions yet. We have said very clearly that no one will be in a combat role and that there will be nothing like the number of troops there are now. We have promised the Afghans that we will provide the officer training academy that they have specifically asked for. We are prepared to look at other issues above and beyond that, but that is the starting baseline.

[Edward Miliband]

I thank the Prime Minister for that answer. Given that thousands of British troops are still going to be in harm’s way in Afghanistan, can the Prime Minister update the House and say what specific effort the Government are making, with the international community, to match the continuing military efforts with the greater diplomatic efforts that both he and I think are important? After all, that will leave behind, or give us our best chance of leaving behind, an inclusive and durable political settlement in Afghanistan, which is so important.

[The Prime Minister]

The right hon. Gentleman is entirely right. As well as a military track, there has always been a political and diplomatic track.

Let me be clear. After December 2014, some troops will still be involved in returning equipment and dealing with logistics. Exact announcements will be made about that at a later stage. In terms of the work that we will go on doing, because we will not be leaving Afghanistan in terms of our support and help for the Afghans, we will be contributing £70 million a year to help to pay for the Afghan national security forces and we will have an aid programme in excess of £170 million a year for Afghanistan.

In terms of the diplomatic track, the thing that we are most focused on is bringing Afghanistan and Pakistan together. I have personally hosted two meetings between the two Presidents and I hope to host further meetings, including early in the new year. I spoke to President Karzai this morning to encourage him to keep working on that vital relationship, so that Pakistan and Afghanistan can both see that they have a shared interest in a stable future.

[Edward Miliband]

I am grateful to the Prime Minister for that answer.

I want to turn to another issue. I want to recognise the work of thousands of volunteers who are helping out in our nation’s food banks and the millions of people who are donating food to them. Is the Prime Minister as concerned as I am that there has been a sixfold increase in the last three years in the number of people relying on food banks?

[The Prime Minister]

First of all, let me echo what the right hon. Gentleman said about volunteers and people who work hard in our communities, part of what I call the big society, to help those in need. It is a good time of year to thank our volunteers for what they do, but I do share the right hon. Gentleman’s concern about people who are struggling to pay the bills and to deal with their budgets.

Of course, the most important thing is to get on top of inflation, and inflation is coming down. The most important thing is to get more people into work and out of poverty, and we see 600,000 more private sector jobs this year. We are helping those families by freezing the council tax and making sure that we help families with the cost of living.

[Edward Miliband]

We both pay tribute to the work of the volunteers, but I never thought that the big society was about feeding hungry children in Britain.

The problem is that it is working people who are turning to food banks. One head teacher of a school rated “outstanding” by Ofsted, Vic Goddard, says that even children with a parent or parents in work are often struggling with the choice of heating their homes, buying their children clothes or buying them food. A report last week from the Children’s Society said that two thirds of teachers knew of staff providing pupils with food or money to prevent them from going hungry. Why does the Prime Minister think that is happening, and why does it appear to be getting worse on his watch?

[The Prime Minister]

I agree with the right hon. Gentleman that we need to do more to help the poorest in our country. That is why we have lifted the personal tax allowance and taken 2 million of the lowest paid people out of tax altogether. Let us take someone who is on the minimum wage and works full time—because of the tax changes that we have made, their income tax bill has been cut in half. I would also make this point: because of the decisions that we made in this Government to increase the child tax credit by £390 ahead of inflation, we have helped those families with their bills and we will continue to do more in the future.

[Edward Miliband]

I am afraid that that answer will have seemed very out of touch with families up and down the country. The problem is that what the Chancellor did not tell us in the autumn statement was that his tax on strivers will be hitting working families who rely on tax credits up and down the country.

The reality is that in the third year of the Prime Minister’s Government, more children are going hungry and more families are relying on food banks. Is it not the clearest indictment of his Government’s values that while lower and middle-income families are being hit, at the same time he is giving an average of a £107,000 tax cut to people earning over £1 million a year?

[The Prime Minister]

What is out of touch is denying the fact that we had a deficit left by the right hon. Gentleman’s Government that we had to deal with. That is what we have had to do, but we have been able to do it at the same time as cutting taxes for the poorest in our country, increasing child tax credits, and freezing the council tax to help those families. When it comes to the top rate of tax, let me tell him this: the richest in our country will pay more in tax under every year of this Government than any year of his Government. Those are the facts; he may not like them but he cannot deny them.

[Edward Miliband]

The problem is that nobody believes him any more. We know who this Prime Minister stands up for, because where was he last weekend? Back to his old ways partying with Rebekah Brooks, no doubt both looking forward to the Boxing day hunt. Before he was elected, the Prime Minister said: “Unless you can represent everyone in our country you cannot be a one nation party.” That was then; this is now. Everyone now knows he cannot be a one nation Prime Minister.

[The Prime Minister]

It would not be Christmas without the repeats, and that is all we ever get from the right hon. Gentleman. I will tell him what we have done this year. We said we would take action on jobs; we have 600,000 more private sector jobs. We said we would help with the cost of living; we have frozen the council tax for the third year in a row. We said we would deal with the deficit; we have cut the deficit by a quarter. And what have we heard from him this year? What has he told us about the deficit? Nothing. What has he told us about welfare? Nothing. What has he told us about his education plans? Nothing. The fact is that he has got absolutely nothing to offer except for the same old something-for-nothing culture that got us in this mess in the first place.

[Mr Rob Wilson (Reading East) (Con)]

Trust in the police is an essential part of a just and democratic society. Will the Prime Minister therefore seek—[Interruption.]

[Mr Wilson]

Will the Prime Minister therefore seek personal assurances from the Commissioner of the Metropolitan Police that no stone will be left unturned in getting to the full truth about allegations that a serving police officer fabricated evidence against a member of the Cabinet?

[The Prime Minister]

First of all, let me say again that at Christmas time it is right to pay tribute to our brave police officers—men and women who look after us round the clock and do an extremely good job. But the point that my hon. Friend has made is important. A police officer posing as a member of the public and sending an e-mail potentially to blacken the name of a Cabinet Minister is a very serious issue, and it does need to be seriously investigated. The Metropolitan Police Service is conducting a thorough and well resourced investigation to get to the truth of this matter as quickly as possible. The Independent Police Complaints Commission will be supervising the investigation, and I think we should allow it to get to the truth.

[Mr David Anderson (Blaydon) (Lab)]

Q2. Despite what the Prime Minister has just said in response to our leader, the facts on the ground are these: the classic poverty-related diseases of rickets and tuberculosis are on the increase in this country, the number of food banks is increasing, kids are going to school hungry, and we have a stagnant economy. Is the Prime Minister proud that his policies are taking this country back to the 1930s?

[The Prime Minister]

I would hope that the hon. Gentleman, with the constituency that he represents, would today be celebrating the fact that Nissan has announced another £125 million investment in our country. This is now one of the biggest and most successful car plants anywhere in Britain. Yes, we face tough economic times, but the fact is that we have over 1 million new private sector jobs, and last year and this year saw some of the fastest rates of new business creation. That is what is happening in our country. Yes, there are tough times and tough choices, but our economy is rebalancing and we should recognise that.

[Martin Horwood (Cheltenham) (LD)]

Q3. In March we introduced a new local green space designation to protect green spaces not just for great crested newts and landscape painters but for urban and suburban communities such as Leckhampton, Warden Hill and Whaddon in my constituency. Can the Prime Minister reassure local councils that they can and should use this new designation and that it has not been undermined by any recent pronouncements?

[The Prime Minister]

I reassure my hon. Friend that the national planning policy framework that we have put in place—it was 1,000 pages long, but is now just 50 pages long—is our planning policy and framework. We are giving local authorities greater power and greater ability—and also neighbourhood plans—so that these decisions can be made where they should be: more locally.

[Ian Lavery (Wansbeck) (Lab)]

Q4. I have in my hand a genuine suicide note from a constituent of mine who, sadly, took his own life after he was informed that he was no longer entitled to employment and support allowance and disability benefits. Across the UK, more than 1,000 people have died only months after being told to find work. This is 2012—we are supposed to be a civilised society. We should be looking after disabled citizens in the UK. Will the Prime Minister listen to the 62,000 people who have signed Pat’s petition and please finally order an assessment of all changes hitting disabled people in this country?

[The Prime Minister]

I will look very carefully at the very tragic case that the hon. Gentleman has brought to the House. Everyone’s thoughts will go out to that person’s family because of what has happened to them.

What I would say to the hon. Gentleman is that the actual money that we are putting into disability benefits over the coming years is going up, not down. I think that everybody knows and accepts that we need to have a review of disability benefits. Some people have been stuck on these benefits and not been reviewed for year after year after year. That is the view of the disability charities and it is the view of the Government as well.

[Harriett Baldwin (West Worcestershire) (Con)]

As we approach Christmas, will the Prime Minister join me in celebrating the fact that there are more people in employment this Christmas than ever before in this nation’s great history?

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend makes an important point. After all, the Leader of the Opposition said back in January that unemployment would go up. That was his prediction—he stood at the Dispatch Box and said that. The fact is that unemployment has come down, employment has gone up and we have seen a record fall in youth unemployment in the last quarter. All of those things are welcome, particularly as we are seeing growth in the private sector, because everyone knows that we have to have a rebalancing of our economy whereby we shed some jobs in the public sector but grow the private sector, and that is what is happening.

[Robert Flello (Stoke-on-Trent South) (Lab)]

Q5. Merry Christmas, Mr Speaker. [Interruption.]People realise, now, that the Prime Minister has a Dickensian vision for the UK: grandeur for the few, workhouse for the many. Why is he limiting welfare benefits for parents caring for adults with disabilities? Could we have an explanation from Ebenezer?

[The Prime Minister]

I say to the hon. Gentleman that it is probably a case of merry Christmas and happy speaking opportunities in the new year.

We have not restricted disability benefits; what we have done is put more money into disability benefits. That is what this Government are doing. We have taken difficult decisions to increase tax credits by 1%, to increase public sector pay by 1% and to increase out-of-work benefits by 1%. Those were tough decisions that needed to be taken.

[Mr Philip Hollobone (Kettering) (Con)]

Q6. Last week, the published census figures revealed that the previous Government presided over the largest wave of immigration our country has ever seen, yet next Christmas our borders will be flung open even wider to potentially limitless immigration from among the 29 million people who live in Romania and Bulgaria. Will my right hon. Friend look seriously at triggering the national interest clauses buried deep in the EU free movement directive in order to stem this new flow, especially for those with criminal records and those who seek access to our welfare benefits system?

[The Prime Minister]

First, let me echo the first half of my hon. Friend’s question. The last Government allowed a completely uncontrolled system of migration, under which we saw net immigration of 200,000 people a year and 2 million people across a decade—that is two cities the size of Birmingham staying in our country every year. There has been not one word of apology for the mess that the last Government left.

My hon. Friend makes an important point about the transitional controls coming off the accession countries. I will look carefully at what he says. We have rules to try to restrict access to benefit. We will go on working to make those as robust as possible. I mentioned the national interest clauses in the statement on Europe on Monday. I think that those can be triggered only if there are emergency conditions, but I will look carefully at what he says.

[Katy Clark (North Ayrshire and Arran) (Lab)]

Q7. A month ago, the Prime Minister told the House that universal credit will put in place work incentives for people at all levels of income. Why then does the Department for Work and Pensions now say that universal credit will mean that working women will consider giving up work?

[The Prime Minister]

That is not the case at all. By bringing different benefits together, universal credit means that people will always be better off in work and will always be better off by working extra hours. That is what we are doing. Labour had 13 years to sort out these poverty traps and it completely failed.

[Mr Mark Spencer (Sherwood) (Con)]

My constituent, Yogi Papi Depass, is currently stuck in Cuba, despite having a British passport. I wonder whether the Prime Minister could encourage the Cuban authorities to look at this matter with compassion and speed to get Yogi back home for Christmas with his family.

[The Prime Minister]

I quite understand why my hon. Friend raises that case. Yoandry Depass was born in Cuba. He entered the UK and obtained a British passport in 1997. We are in regular contact with the Cuban authorities, and they have advised Mr Depass that he should expect to receive his Cuban passport this week, which will enable him to travel. Ultimately, the decision rests with the Cuban authorities, but British embassy consular officials will continue to assist him and we will keep in touch with my hon. Friend.

[Joan Walley (Stoke-on-Trent North) (Lab)]

Q8. In April, the Prime Minister stated that energy efficiency would be placed at the heart of Government policy. On Monday this week, the Government’s fuel poverty advisory group warned that there could be more than 9 million households in fuel poverty. That would include 25% of all households in Stoke-on-Trent. Will the Prime Minister tell us why, from next year, expenditure on heating insulation programmes for low-income households will be half that of 2010-11?

[The Prime Minister]

I know that the hon. Lady takes a deep interest in these matters. The green deal that is being brought in is a bigger and better programme. Labour promised to abolish fuel poverty altogether in its 2005 manifesto, and yet fuel poverty went up. We are investing in the Warm Front scheme, we have maintained the winter fuel payment, we have increased the cold weather payment, we are making money available under the Warm Homes Healthy People fund, and the green deal and the energy company obligation are some of the biggest schemes ever introduced in this country.

[Neil Carmichael (Stroud) (Con)]

Q9. Does the Prime Minister agree with the shadow Health Secretary that any increase in the expenditure of the NHS would be “irresponsible”?

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend makes an important point. Some people in the House might have missed this. In a recent health debate, my right hon. Friend the Health Secretary asked the shadow Health Secretary:

“does he stand by his comment that it is irresponsible to increase NHS spending?”—[Official Report, 12 December 2012; Vol. 555, c. 332.]

What did the shadow Health Secretary reply? He said, “Yes, I do.” It may be Christmas time, but the shadow Health Secretary is the gift that keeps on giving.

[Jack Dromey (Birmingham, Erdington) (Lab)]

Last week, 100 young homeless people came to this House for the first ever young homeless people’s parliament. I am grateful to you, Mr Speaker, for being present, to the House authorities for their support, and to the Ministers who came to engage with those young people. They were excellent young people who gave powerful, personal testimony about why they had become homeless. They set out in no uncertain terms what they expect from us in this House. Above all, they want their voice to be heard. They agreed that they would seek a meeting with the Prime Minister. Will he receive a delegation of those young, homeless people?

[The Prime Minister]

I join the hon. Gentleman in welcoming the fact that those young people came to Parliament to make those points, and I will listen carefully to what they have to say. The truth is that in our country we have seen housing benefit increase by something like 50% over recent years, and even under our plans it will continue to increase. What we in Britain need to do is build more homes in the private sector and the social rented sector. That is the vital task ahead of us, and I give credit to planning Ministers and others who will help to make that happen.

[Andrew George (St Ives) (LD)]

Q10. The closure two months ago of the originally state-sponsored lifeline helicopter service to the Isles of Scilly has presented significant challenges to islanders, medical services and the economy, although local people and other stakeholders are working together to find solutions. Is the Prime Minister prepared to meet me and a small delegation of islanders to explore what encouragement and assistance the Government can provide to the islands in this their hour of desperate need?

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend makes an important point; clearly proper transport links to the Isles of Scilly are absolutely vital. I understand that other providers are looking to fill the gaps left by the helicopter service. That would provide the most long-term and sustainable option, rather than Government subsidy, but obviously we have to look at all options, because that part of our country needs to be connected to the mainland. If it is necessary to have a meeting, then of course I will.

[Mr David Crausby (Bolton North East) (Lab)]

Q11. rose—[Interruption.]

[Mr Crausby]

When the great train robbers stole £2.5 million from Royal Mail, they were sentenced to as many as 30 years in prison. When our bankers get caught fraudulently taking billions of pounds from poor people throughout the world, they just pay large corporate fines and walk away with fat pensions. How can we ever be in anything together as long as we tolerate powerful villains who are too privileged to be put behind bars?

[The Prime Minister]

The hon. Gentleman makes an important point, and that is why the Wheatley review into the LIBOR scandal recommends a series of changes, including criminal sanctions. I think that when people have broken the law they should face the full force of the criminal law. What punishment we should design for the people who sold our gold at half price, on the other hand, is another matter altogether.

[Mr Marcus Jones (Nuneaton) (Con)]

Dementia is a terrible condition that destroys lives. Will my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister join me in commending Warwickshire county council and local health care partners for developing the excellent Coventry and Warwickshire dementia portal that provides an excellent service to dementia sufferers and their carers?

[The Prime Minister]

I am happy to join my hon. Friend in paying tribute to his county council. We need to do far more as a country to tackle dementia. There are three important parts to that. First, we must recognise that dementia is a disease and not just a natural part of ageing, and we need to increase the research that goes into dementia. We need to improve the care that people get in hospitals and in care homes, and make sure that there is far more dignity. Frankly, all communities have to come together and make more dementia-friendly communities. That is where local government can help lead the way by bringing organisations together, as it has obviously done in Warwickshire.

[Tom Blenkinsop (Middlesbrough South and East Cleveland) (Lab)]

Q12. It is interesting that the Prime Minister says that those who break the law should feel the full force of the law, as his local Heythrop hunt has pleaded guilty to four charges of illegally hunting foxes with dogs. Will he remind the House how many times he has ridden with the hunt and say whether he used his own horse or borrowed one from a friend?

[The Prime Minister]

I can happily put on record that I have never broken the law in this regard.

[Mr Julian Brazier (Canterbury) (Con)]

May I reassure my right hon. Friend that those of my constituents who are most strongly in favour of reforming benefits—focusing them more on those who need them and taking them away from those who do not—are people who live on council estates and are fed up with working long hours to subsidise the lifestyles of those who do not want to work?

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend makes an important point. We have made three difficult decisions. We set a 1% pay freeze on the public sector, a 1% increase on working benefits and a 1% freeze on tax credits. Labour Members support the 1% freeze on public sector pay, which is progress, but they do not support the 1% increase on welfare benefits. They think the income of people who are out of work should go up faster than the income of people who are in work. That is why they are so profoundly out of touch with the nation, and why they do not deserve to be in government.

[Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab)]

With the Prime Minister’s neighbours in trouble over phone hacking and, as we have heard, his local hunt in disgrace, he might find himself stuck at home a bit over Christmas watching films on TV. I have had a quick scan of the Radio Times. Which of these films would he fancy: “The Grinch Who Stole Christmas”, starring the Chancellor of the Exchequer; “The Muppet Christmas Carol”, starring the Lib Dem members of the Cabinet; or “It’s Not a Wonderful Life for the Poor”, starring himself?

[The Prime Minister]

The Labour party will have to swap “Wallace and Gromit” and have “The Muppet Christmas Carol” instead. I have one suggestion—full of Christmas cheer. Everybody knows that the shadow Chancellor does a brilliant job playing Santa at the Christmas party every year—[Hon. Members: “Hear, hear!”] He does an excellent job. Why not give everyone an early Christmas present, make the arrangement permanent and give him the sack?

[Mr Richard Bacon (South Norfolk) (Con)]

rose—[Interruption].

[Mr Bacon]

Thank you, Mr Speaker.

Does the Prime Minister agree with the increasing number of informed commentators who believe that the ring-fencing of the investment banking subsidiaries of commercial banks will not work properly, and that complete separation is required?

[The Prime Minister]

The Government have looked at this carefully. We commissioned the Vickers report, which came up with the idea of ring-fencing, which was right. The key is that we want to ensure that, if a bank fails, it can fail safely, without taxpayers having to stump up the money to sort it out. That would be a major advance, and something the whole country would support.

[Mr George Howarth (Knowsley) (Lab)]

The Prime Minister will be aware of the welcome news this morning that the Attorney-General’s application to quash the Hillsborough verdicts was upheld by the High Court. He will understand that that will involve the Hillsborough families in a great deal of legal costs to ensure that they are properly represented. Will he agree to waive the VAT on the CD “He Ain’t Heavy, He’s My Brother”, the proceeds from which will go directly to the Hillsborough families to support their legal case?

[The Prime Minister]

I join the right hon. Gentleman in welcoming the decision made today. The Hillsborough families have long wanted this new inquest, and it is very good that the system has moved relatively rapidly since the Hillsborough statement and the Hillsborough debate in the House to help bring the decision about. I have received representations on the Hillsborough families’ single. The Chancellor of the Exchequer is currently on the other side of the Atlantic, but as the First Lord of the Treasury, I think I can confidently predict that there will be a decision that will go down well on Merseyside.

[Sir Bob Russell (Colchester) (LD)]

As this is the season of good will and humbug, will the Prime Minister confirm that, for the greater part of the period of the Labour Government, the top rate of tax was 40p; the gap between rich and poor widened; and they left nearly 4 million children living below the poverty line?

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend makes an extremely good point. He could have added that the Labour Government left a record deficit, saw youth unemployment double, made a complete mess of the economy, and had an open-door immigration system. They have never apologised for any of it.

[Mr Speaker]

Last but not least, I call Tom Clarke.

[Mr Tom Clarke (Coatbridge, Chryston and Bellshill) (Lab)]

Many people watching our proceedings will be interested in the issue of fuel poverty, but they might be a little confused by the Prime Minister’s reply a few moments ago to my hon. Friend the Member for Stoke-on-Trent North (Joan Walley). Will he confirm—let us be transparent—that, as one body has advised, approaching 9 million households suffer from fuel poverty, which is the highest since records began? Will he explain to the House and our constituents, as we approach Christmas, what the Government are prepared to do about the horrible scandal of fuel poverty?

[The Prime Minister]

The right hon. Gentleman is entirely right that fuel poverty is a scandal and that it needs to be dealt with, but I do not believe the figures he gives are correct. The figures I have show that, in 2012, it is expected that 3.9 million households will be in fuel poverty. However, as I have said, we are committed to tackling fuel poverty. That is why we have maintained the winter fuel payments; why we have increased the cold weather payments and kept the increase permanent; and why we are investing in the Warm Front scheme and the warm home discount. The green deal will make a real difference—[Interruption.] I hear chuntering from Opposition Front Benchers. They promised to abolish fuel poverty, but they put it up.

Government Equalities Office

Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton Excerpts

Tuesday 18th December 2012 Written Statements

[The Prime Minister (Mr David Cameron)]

I am today confirming a machinery of government change concerning the Government Equalities Office.

The Government Equalities Office now reports to the Minister for Women and Equalities who is also the Secretary of State for Culture Media and Sport. The Government Equalities Office is now formally a part of the Department for Culture, Media and Sport.