Oral Answers to Questions

Tessa Munt Excerpts

Tuesday 3rd February 2015 Commons Chamber

[Andrew Selous]

I think the hon. Gentleman should tread carefully, given that the number of foreign national offenders in our prisons doubled while his party was in power and has come down while we have been in power. On a serious note, I share his frustration. I want to see removals speeded up. I can tell him that we now have the first prisoners taken back on the prisoner transfer agreement with both Nigeria and Albania, but he is right that there is further progress to be made.

[Tessa Munt (Wells) (LD)]

Is the rehabilitation work with prisoners with a drug problem robust enough now to mean that the Secretary of State’s Department has finally halted the practice of retoxification of prisoners in anticipation of their release?

Oral Answers to Questions

Tessa Munt Excerpts

Tuesday 11th November 2014 Commons Chamber

[Tessa Munt (Wells) (LD)]

T7. Yesterday Edward Graham, a retired serviceman, was sentenced by court martial to 13 years after being found guilty of 23 counts of sexual abuse against children. It is my understanding that he will be held in a civilian prison and that the appeal will by heard by a civilian court. What will the Secretary of State do to ensure that all future cases that do not involve matters only of military discipline are always tried in a civilian court, where the process is open to press and public scrutiny?

[Mike Penning]

I am aware of this case, but at the time of the offences, this man was serving in the armed forces on a military base abroad, and it is right and proper that such a case be held in a military court.

Prison Communications

Tessa Munt Excerpts

Tuesday 11th November 2014 Commons Chamber

[Chris Grayling]

I have not yet done so because the matter arose very recently, but the hon. Gentleman makes a good point and I will follow it up.

[Tessa Munt (Wells) (LD)]

I thank the Justice Secretary for his statement. He raised questions about communications between a relevant MP and his or her constituents in prison and those between prisoners and an MP’s staff. Was he suggesting that the exclusion of calls from MPs’ Westminster and local offices from the surveillance by prison authorities from now onwards will cover MPs’ staff, or was he trying to differentiate between the two? This is not rocket science. Confidentiality is of supreme importance.

[Chris Grayling]

This provision will cover all phone numbers for MPs, their offices and their staff that have been placed in the public arena and to which we have access. If Members have other numbers that are not readily available on the system, but that they wish to be covered by the new provision, I ask them to please let us know. The Under-Secretary of State for Justice, my hon. Friend the Member for South West Bedfordshire (Andrew Selous) will be writing to them to ask them to do so.

Deaths in Custody (Legal Aid)

Tessa Munt Excerpts

Tuesday 4th February 2014 Commons Chamber

[Tessa Munt (Wells) (LD)]

I have had a similar case in my constituency. The inquest has now taken place, Mr Speaker. James was in his 20s, and he was mentally ill. He was restrained and, unfortunately, died in police custody. When the police force in question has access to unlimited legal advice and expertise at no quantifiable cost, is it not an outrage that the parents, who are so vulnerable at a time like that, should be asked to seek advice from a local solicitor who is not an expert in mental health or deaths in custody?

[Mr Byrne]

Let me deal with a point directly. The family did not choose to be in this position; the Coroners Act 1988 demands an inquest. We in this House are the people who insist on the position my constituents are now in, and we do so for a very good reason: we want to know what happened. Our predecessors in this Parliament felt so strongly about the unchecked actions of an arbitrary state that they deposed the monarch and fought a war to insist on the liberty of the individual and a measure of their protection—we want to know what happened.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Vara]

Well, the previous Government made provision for it but they did not implement it. I do not know when it will be implemented, but I am happy to reflect on that matter and write to the right hon. Gentleman. Let me put on the record that the criteria under the Access to Justice Act still apply, as that was the Act that was applicable when Mr Butler’s case first arose.

[Tessa Munt]

Will the Minister give way?

[Mr Vara]

I shall give way for the very last time and on the understanding that the hon. Lady will be very brief, as I am determined to get through a lot of material that I must put on the record.

[Tessa Munt]

I shall be brief. When the Minister is reviewing the situation, will he consider whether it is appropriate for applicants to be pressured—there is no other word to describe it—to seek local and non-specialist advice from solicitors and therefore barristers who have no knowledge about taking on something such as a police force, with all its expertise?

[Mr Vara]

I hope that the hon. Lady will appreciate that I cannot comment on pressures in the individual cases to which she is alluding or on specific cases.

Guidance issued by the Lord Chancellor under the 1999 Act says on contributions:

“Where it is appropriate for a contribution to be payable this may be based upon the applicant’s disposable income and disposable capital in the usual way ignoring upper eligibility limits. Contributions should always be based on what can reasonably be afforded by the applicant and his or her family in all the circumstances of the case.”

It is worth underlining that we do not have a red-line rule on financial eligibility for inquests in the same way as we do for most other categories of law for which civil legal aid is available. There are a large number of variables, as I have mentioned, that the Legal Aid Agency considers when deciding whether to exercise its discretion to waive the limits.

It is also worth making it clear that, contrary to certain reports, there has been no substantive change to legal aid provision for inquests as a result of the recent reforms to the system. On that issue, both the right hon. Gentleman’s party and mine are in agreement. Let me assure the House that legal aid for inquests has been protected by this Government.

Legal help—in other words, the advice and assistance level of legal aid—remains within the general scope of the scheme, subject to merits and means-testing. That can cover all the preparatory work associated with the inquest, which might include preparing written submissions to the coroner. Notwithstanding the pressure on the public finances, the Government made a clear commitment to bereaved families by ensuring that legal help was retained in inquest cases.

Legal aid for representation can also be provided exceptionally where certain criteria are met. Those criteria have remained largely unchanged from those that operated under the 1999 Act. Let me be clear that under the new statutory scheme all individual decisions on legal aid, including exceptional funding decisions, are taken by the director of legal aid casework at the Legal Aid Agency.

However, the Lord Chancellor has published guidance setting out the general circumstances in which he considers that exceptional funding may be required under section 10 of the Legal Aid, Sentencing and Punishment of Offenders Act 2012. The director of legal aid casework is not bound by that guidance, but he must have regard to it when reaching individual decisions, together with any representations made by applicants on the individual case or any new and relevant case law.

Under section 10 of LASPO, the director of legal aid casework can grant exceptional funding for representation at an inquest where it is required by article 2 of the European convention on human rights, to which the right hon. Gentleman referred. Article 2 confers a “right to life” and imposes on states a substantive obligation not to take life without justification and to establish a framework of laws, precautions and means of enforcement that will, to the greatest extent reasonably practicable, protect life. The other ground on which the director can grant funding for representation at an inquest is where representation for the family is likely to produce significant wider public benefits, meaning significant benefits for a class of person other than the members of the family involved.

On the coronial system, I know that concerns persist about the length of time some cases take to progress. The Coroners and Justice Act 2009 includes a number of provisions that will help to tackle delays in the coronial system, including a new power for the Chief Coroner to direct a coroner to conduct an investigation into a death. There is now greater flexibility on where post-mortem examinations and inquests can be held. They can now happen outside the coroner’s area.

The 2009 Act also requires coroners to notify the Chief Coroner of any investigation that has lasted more than 12 months. The Chief Coroner is then required to provide a summary of such cases in his annual report to the Lord Chancellor, which is laid before Parliament, together with reasons for the delays and any steps he is taking to prevent such delays from becoming unnecessarily lengthy.

While this debate has focused on legal aid, the coronial system and the police, there is, of course, a broader issue at stake. Let me be clear that the Government take deaths in custody extremely seriously. Deaths in custody are among the most scrutinised of all incidents. All deaths in custody are subject to a number of investigations, including, in the case of police custody, an independent investigation by the Independent Police Complaints Commission. Of course, an inquest is also held. Those investigations will usually involve the participation of the bereaved family.

I should like to acknowledge the ongoing work of the ministerial council on deaths in custody, which incorporates senior decision makers, experts and practitioners in the field. This allows for an extended, cross-sector approach to deaths in custody and is designed to ensure better learning and sharing of information. The council works to ensure that lessons learned in any area of state custody are disseminated across the police, prisons, approved premises, immigration, detention, and secure hospitals. The council commenced operation in 2009 and is jointly funded by the Ministry of Justice, the Department of Health and the Home Office. The House will want to know that funding has been extended until March 2015.

Let me again thank the right hon. Gentleman and all other hon. Members who have spoken. I hope that I have been able to offer some reassurance as to the position concerning legal aid, what the Government are doing to tackle delays in the coronial system, and the Government’s position on deaths in custody more generally. To the extent that there are matters outstanding, I am happy to write to the right hon. Gentleman and, indeed, to have a meeting with him as well, although, as I say, my ability to influence the Legal Aid Agency is somewhat limited.

Question put and agreed to.

Anti-social Behaviour, Crime and Policing Bill

Tessa Munt Excerpts

Monday 14th October 2013 Commons Chamber

[Steve Rotheram]

I suppose it would depend on the aim of the legislative change. The community that I represent needs a strong message to be sent from this House that the current level of gun crime is unacceptable and that we will give the police every power possible to tackle the blight on our neighbourhoods.

In recent years, we have also seen a rise in the use of firearms, breaching police and public safety, by individuals with track records of domestic violence and mental illness, leading one coroner to call for “root and branch changes” to gun licensing laws. For instance, in the last 12 months, 75% of female gun deaths occurred in domestic incidents, and 53% of female gun deaths in the last five years have involved the use of a legally held weapon, so the improved guidance that the Minister has provided for the police on this issue is to be welcomed.

Such statistics reinforce Labour’s call to ensure that applicants do not have a history of domestic violence or violent conduct as a statutory requirement and not just as a discretionary guideline. While the last Labour Government went a long way to reducing crime and encouraging safer, stronger communities, and introducing tough sentences for gun crimes, too many people still believe the use of guns to be an occupational consequence of their criminal activity. Perhaps the most high-profile incident of gun crime was the appalling murder of 11-year-old schoolboy Rhys Jones in Liverpool in 2007. Sean Mercer was sentenced to life in prison, but what made the incident even more sickening and unpalatable was that Mercer was just 18 years of age. That is why the Government are right to be tough on those who possess prohibited firearms and who sell or transfer them to criminal gangs, which blight neighbourhoods in so many of our major cities.

In my own city, we have tried many innovative approaches to tackling gun crime. Across Merseyside, the police and the local media deserve enormous credit for the campaigns they have undertaken on firearm detection and recovery. This is not just some right-wing tough-on-crime agenda; this is an issue that primarily affects the lives of ordinary people up and down the country, something that Parliament must ensure is reflected in the strength of the laws that govern gun control licensing and in the length of imprisonment. That is why I support clause 100, which seeks to separate the existing offence in the Firearms Act 1968 into two parts, and, in doing so, make it an offence to possess prohibited firearms for sale and transfer, and introduce a maximum penalty of life imprisonment.

It is also right for the clause to increase the maximum penalty for the existing offences of manufacture, sale or transfer, or the purchase or acquisition for sale or transfer, of unauthorised firearms from 10 years to life imprisonment. Speaking with Merseyside police and the governors of local prisons, it is becoming increasingly clear that the tactic deployed by gangs is to use the same firearm for different shootings, but then to redistribute the gun to different members of the gang as and when it is “needed”, so to speak. By making the transfer of a firearm a crime punishable by a life sentence, I am positive that this will act as a stronger deterrent, and that those who ignore this change and are later prosecuted will receive severe custodial sentences.

I support clause 101, which seeks to amend sections 50 and 170 of the Customs and Excise Management Act 1979 to increase the maximum penalty for the unlawful importation of firearms, prohibited under section 5 of the Firearms Act 1968, from 10 years to life imprisonment. This is particularly important for an area such as Liverpool, with our revitalised docks now shipping record tonnage of trade. Inevitably, there will be those who wish to import illegal firearms into the port. The clause sends a strong message to people involved in the smuggling of weapons into Merseyside that if they are caught, this activity will carry a life sentence.

I support clause 102 in its efforts to allow British Transport police officers to carry firearms without requiring an individual certificate, giving them the same powers as officers of other police forces. Many incidences of gun attacks have taken place on public transport in Britain over the years. It is therefore right that we remove this anomaly and give the transport police the powers they require to combat this specific threat.

I am keen for the laws on firearms to be as tough as possible. New clause 4, tabled by the Labour party, will help the Government to achieve this common aim. New clause 4(4) notes the rising cost to police forces of administering the current firearms licensing regime. According to the Minister, more than 170,000 firearms licences and approximately 620,000 shotgun licences have been issued. The current fee for a firearm or a shotgun licence is only £50 for five years, yet the cost to the administrating force is, according to the Gun Control Network, about £200. Considering that the firearms licence averages out at just £10 a year, it is cheaper to own a gun than it is to own a fishing licence. That is absurd. I cannot see why the taxpayer is being asked to subsidise a large number of gun licences that are being issued to and used by a minority of individuals who wish to use guns for recreational sport. I am not aware of any other licensing system that subsidises to that degree.

[Tessa Munt (Wells) (LD)]

In a rural area such as mine, a number of people have to hold firearms licences because they deal with fallen stock. I assume that that would be a legitimate business expense that they could claim to do their job. Putting the firearms costs at the correct level so that the police do not have to ask other taxpayers for some sort of subsidy would be a logical thing to do, and would not cause problems in rural areas where these firearms are needed.

--- Later in debate ---

[Damian Green]

The point that I am making is that it is today; the use of an electronic licensing system is available. Some police forces are piloting this already and this will lead to a much more efficient system. As I say, our ultimate aim is full cost recovery. We are moving towards that, but at the same time making sure that the full cost that is recovered is much less than it was before, not just to save the money but because that will lead to a much better and more efficient system.

[Tessa Munt]

Surely, using e-commerce for firearms licensing will still involve police time in investigating in detail the circumstances of an applicant, including a visit to ensure that the premises can hold firearms in a secure and safe fashion, hidden from general view, and certainly from young people and those who are less able. Surely the standard charge of £190 or £200 cannot be reduced that much.

[Damian Green]

The short answer is that it can. Yes, the police will want to do thorough checks of the premises and so on, but the more that one can reduce the work of processing pieces of paper, which is a lot of what is involved now, with all the attendant inefficiencies and expense for the police, the more the police can do the checks that the hon. Lady and I both want to see happen.

[Tessa Munt]

Can the Minister give me some idea of what the police feel the cost would be if they were to use the e-commerce system? I remind the Minister yet again that the cost of a morning’s shooting—clays—to which my hon. Friend the Member for Sherwood (Mr Spencer) referred is not cheap. This is leisure and recreation.

[Damian Green]

The hon. Lady may be right, but the more people use electronic systems, the more savings there are, so it is quite difficult to put an exact figure on it, particularly with a network system, where the costs will be considerably lower than the figures we have been quoting. I can tell from the hon. Lady’s face that I will not necessarily convince her on this matter, but I hope that I have convinced the House. I urge the House to reject the Opposition’s new clause 4, and I am grateful for the general support for the Government’s new clause.

Question put and agreed to.

New clause 20 accordingly read a Second time, and added to the Bill.

New Clause 4

Firearms’ licensing

‘(1) The Firearms Act 1968 is amended as follows.

(2) After section 28A (Certificates: supplementary) insert—

“28B Assessing public safety

(1) When assessing the threat to public safety under sections 27, 28, 30A, 30B or 30C the Chief Police Officer must ensure that a range of background checks are performed.

(2) Where these checks uncover substantiated evidence of violent conduct, domestic violence, mental illness or drug or alcohol abuse, the presumption is that the Chief Police Officer should refuse the licence application unless exceptional evidence can be brought forward by the applicant as to their suitability to possess a weapon.

(3) When assessing public safety within this section the Chief Police Officer must follow any guidance issued by the Secretary of State.”.

(3) Section 113 of the Firearms Act 1968 (power of Secretary of State to alter fees) is amended as follows.

(4) After subsection (1) insert—

“(1A) Before making an order under this section the Secretary of State must consult with chief police officers to ensure the level of fees collected by the police under sections 32 and 35 are appropriate after considering the costs they incur through the administration and assessment of firearms’ licences made under this Act.”.’.—(Diana Johnson.)

Brought up, and read the First time.

Question put, That the clause be read a Second time.

Oral Answers to Questions

Tessa Munt Excerpts

Tuesday 2nd July 2013 Commons Chamber

[Chris Grayling]

My understanding is that that is not the case, and if there is any suggestion that it is the case, we will ask the people who sent the e-mails to resend them. However, I can assure the House that as far as I am aware, every submission is in our hands, is being read, and will be considered properly.

[Tessa Munt (Wells) (LD)]

All of us understand the need to control costs, but I wonder how the Secretary of State will ensure that the creation of a single fixed fee, payable regardless of whether an individual pleads guilty, will not create a direct conflict of interest between the legal representative and his or her client.

[Chris Grayling]

It is clearly in our interests to have a system where we encourage people who are guilty to plead guilty early. That saves money. It is the right thing to do for society. I do not believe or accept that we would be in a position where any qualified lawyer would try to encourage someone to plead guilty when they were not guilty, but of course we are listening to all the responses from the consultation and will bring forward further proposals in due course.

Oral Answers to Questions

Tessa Munt Excerpts

Thursday 10th January 2013 Commons Chamber

[Maria Miller]

The hon. Lady needs to look at the total package of measures brought forward in the autumn statement. We are absolutely mindful of the need to make sure that we support those who find it most difficult in today’s society. That is why 1 million women have been taken out of tax altogether and why we are putting £200 million more into child care for people who are working the shortest hours. Those things have never happened before, and I hope the hon. Lady will applaud and welcome those measures.

[Tessa Munt (Wells) (LD)]

On 5 January last Saturday, BBC Radio 6 Music made history when three consecutive daytime programmes were presented by female DJs for the first time in the BBC’s 45 years of music radio. While less than 20% of the BBC’s music radio programmes were presented by women in 2012, will the Secretary of State please continue her discussions with the BBC to correct that imbalance?

[Maria Miller]

I am wondering how that question relates to tax and benefit changes, but I will of course always encourage the BBC to make sure that women have a full role in the work they do.

Transforming Rehabilitation

Tessa Munt Excerpts

Wednesday 9th January 2013 Commons Chamber

[Chris Grayling]

This is an iterative process. We have a formal consultation period of six weeks. We carried out a consultation on the future of probation last year, and this is an updated consultation. We are going to carry on listening to Members across the House. It will take us a few more months to hone and finalise our final package, and we will look at what works. If the best idea comes in half an hour before we finalise it, then that is fine. I want to make sure that what we have is what works.

[Tessa Munt (Wells) (LD)]

While I recognise that the Secretary of State’s proposals seek to ensure that ex-prisoners make a success of their lives once they are released, I want to return to the matter of those who enter prison with a drug problem. Has he managed to call a complete halt to the practice of retoxifying prisoners prior to release when the Prison Service has taken the trouble to detoxify them at the beginning of their sentences?

[Chris Grayling]

We will do everything we can to do that. The Under-Secretary of State, my hon. Friend the Member for Kenilworth and Southam, is looking very hard at the whole issue of how we manage drugs in prisons and the nature of such rehabilitation. As a result of these reforms, I hope that we will end up not only dealing with the question of retoxification but identifying problems, starting rehab in prison and continuing it post-prison, and getting prisoners off drugs altogether.

Voting Eligibility (Prisoners)

Tessa Munt Excerpts

Thursday 22nd November 2012 Commons Chamber

[Chris Grayling]

On legal aid, there will always be people we might find repellent but for whom we must provide financial support so that they can defend themselves in a fair and open justice system, but that does not mean that our legal aid system should be open to abuse for purposes it is not intended to serve. That is why I have asked my officials to look closely at that area and consider what changes are necessary.

[Tessa Munt (Wells) (LD)]

Will the Secretary of State clarify that it will be open to Parliament to decide that non-violent offences tried summarily by the magistrates would comply with the requirements of the European Court of Human Rights and that using the sentencing guidelines and the experience of the judiciary, which is independent of interference and hears the evidence, should be a vehicle for deciding whether or not prisoners are entitled to vote?

[Chris Grayling]

My hon. Friend has put forward a further option for the eventual legislation, and I encourage her to take it to the Committee for its consideration.

Firearms Controls

Tessa Munt Excerpts

Wednesday 31st October 2012 Commons Chamber

[Damian Green]

That would be a matter for the individual force concerned. It is clearly a matter that the police forces that do the licensing, who are responsible and sensitive about these things, would take serious note of.

The hon. Member for Easington mentioned national control of firearms and the proposal for a national licensing authority. There is a danger that a central authority might lose touch with the sort of local information that the police need. In his report on the Dunblane tragedy, Lord Cullen recommended that licensing functions should remain with the police. Previous suggestions to replace the current police licensing system with a central civilianised licensing authority have been rejected as more costly and less efficient than the present system.

Although the Government are not in favour of a national firearms control board, the Home Office guidance to the police on firearms legislation—the hon. Gentleman mentioned it, and it is indeed long and complex—is being revised and updated to help ensure that licensing procedures are applied consistently across forces. This is an important piece of work, responding directly to the Home Affairs Select Committee’s wish for more consistency. In particular, we will highlight the need to take full account of any incidences of domestic violence when considering applications for the grant or renewal of certificates. The comments that I have heard this evening will be particularly pertinent to that.

[Tessa Munt (Wells) (LD)]

Does the Minister agree that cost is not an issue here? Where people use firearms for recreation, there is no excuse whatever for the process to be subsidised. It is not a matter of cost; it is purely a matter of process—and the costs should be covered by those who require a licence.

[Damian Green]

The ultimate driver, frankly, is safety; that is what underlies the system. On the issue of cost, the Home Office has received a detailed report from ACPO proposing new firearms fees to allow forces to recover the cost of firearms licensing. In considering the proposal, the Government will look both at the quality of service licence holders receive, which is relevant, and will discuss with ACPO the scope for making some of the current processes more efficient and effective. That will take into account the need to manage risk and ensure public protection.

As we indicated in our response to the Select Committee, we do not consider that separate licensing for shotguns and firearms is causing difficulties. Applying a good reason test in the same way for both categories could be problematic. For example, unlike target shooters, shotgun owners do not always belong to clubs that could vouch that they had shot regularly. However, I assure the House that we will keep this issue under review. As I indicated earlier, the local police must satisfy themselves that an applicant for a certificate is fit to be entrusted with a firearm, and will not present a danger to public safety. This is a particularly heavy responsibility and sits right at the heart of the licensing process. Such is the basis of my discussions with ACPO.

One of the most important points raised by the hon. Gentleman was about the need for medical checks on those who have access to firearms. I completely agree that it is important that the police are made aware of medical conditions that affect a person’s suitability to possess firearms. Both the hon. Gentleman and I will therefore—