Live Debate: Commons Chamber

Oral questions: Church Commissioners and House of Commons Commission and Public Accounts Commission and Restoration and Renewal Client Board and Speaker’s Committee on the Electoral Commission

representing the Church Commissioners and the hon. Member representing the House of Commons Commission and the Restoration and Renewal Client Board. Matt Turmaine.

10:16

Marsha De Cordova MP (Battersea, Labour)

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Question number one, please, Madam Deputy. >> Thank you, Madam. >> Deputy Speaker, and it's a pleasure to see. >> You at church. Questions this

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You at church. Questions this morning, with permission, I wish to group questions one and three. I also would like to put on record my also would like to put on record my thanks to the Leader of the House for stepping in to cover questions last month due to me being unwell. The Church of England remains deeply concerned about the rise in persecution on grounds of faith and belief worldwide, including in Kate. In recent cases in Iran, Sudan, India and Palestine, with Christian communities remaining the most targeted.

The church is working closely with the FCDO to improve faith literacy of its officials. Support the International Panel of parliamentarians regularly providing resources to bishops to raise cases in the other place, as well as developing resources for use across the Global Anglican Communion.

10:17

Matt Turmaine MP (Watford, Labour)

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Matt Turmaine. >> Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker, and I thank my right hon. Friend for her answer. In my constituency of Watford, I received many of Watford, I received many Christmas cards from residents supporting the Open Doors campaign, concerned about the persecution of concerned about the persecution of Christians around the world. I've also met with representatives from those congregations in my constituency. Would my right hon. Friend agree with me that the World Watch List, which was published here in Parliament yesterday, is an important project identifying the locations of persecuted Christians around the world and encourage those countries to promote tolerance.

10:18

Marsha De Cordova MP (Battersea, Labour)

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Well, yes. Yes, I do agree with him. Madam Deputy Speaker, and I was pleased to attend the launch of the Open Doors Award watch list yesterday here in Parliament and hearing the testimonies of those who have fled persecution was powerful. Madam Deputy Speaker, an estimated 338 million Christians are facing persecution across 50 countries and those include Somalia, Sudan, Pakistan, Iran, Nigeria, India, Myanmar, Iraq and Egypt. Organisations like Open Doors do vital work in raising awareness and highlighting the persecution of people with faith.

Their work. This and their report is a stark reminder and a showing of why global norms matter.

10:19

Andrew Rosindell MP (Romford, Conservative)

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Andrew Rosindell I thank. that over the past decades, over 50,000 Christians have been inhumanely slaughtered in Nigeria by murderous Islamist groups, namely Boko Haram and Fulani herdsmen. These attacks have only intensified in recent months, targeting vulnerable groups like Christian schools and missionaries. This is a tragedy of mammoth proportions. So what action is the Church of England taking to prioritise the issue of Christian persecution and to support the Anglican Church in Nigeria over.

10:19

Marsha De Cordova MP (Battersea, Labour)

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Thank you and can I thank the hon. Member for his question. He has been a strong voice on this issue and so I welcome that. And he rightly highlights that thousands of Christians are being killed because of their faith, and that persecution comes in many forms. As we know, he's mentioned schools and so forth, and that is why we are so grateful for the work of organisations like Open Doors and those 82 churches in Need, and others for shining a light on what is happening globally.

And as I say, you know, the bishops in the other

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place continue to raise these cases, and it is something that remains a priority for the church. Catherine Fookes thank.

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Catherine Fookes thank. You, Madam Deputy Speaker. Question number two, please. Do cover. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker,

10:20

Q2. To ask the hon. Member for Battersea, representing the Church Commissioners, what recent discussions the Church of England has had with the Government on the future of the Listed Places of Worship Grant Scheme. (907299)

>> Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker, with permission, I will group question two and for the future of the Listed Places of Worship scheme

10:20

Marsha De Cordova MP (Battersea, Labour)

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the Listed Places of Worship scheme continues to feature heavily during Question Time, with over 200 Question Time, with over 200 members raising this issue. Faith communities with listed buildings are waiting for clarity on the future of the scheme, which is due to end in March this year. The uncertainty is delaying repairs and implementation of community projects nationwide. Now, I met with the Minister of Heritage just before Christmas and was assured that the government would be updating the House soon.

10:20

Catherine Fookes MP (Monmouthshire, Labour)

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Catherine Fookes. >> I've had the privilege over the last 18 months of visiting many beautiful historic places of worship in Monmouthshire, including worship in Monmouthshire, including Saint James's New Church, Saint Mary's Priory and Saint Tewdric, which dates back to 600 A.D. The Listed Places scheme is a lifeline for the volunteers and charities such as the Amazing Friends of Friendless Churches, who look after these buildings like Redditch Baptist Chapel, which needs the scheme to fix its roof. Can my hon.

Friend please update me on any discussions the Church Commissioners have recently had with government on this issue?

10:21

Marsha De Cordova MP (Battersea, Labour)

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However. >> Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker, and it's good to hear how this scheme has benefited churches in my hon. Friend's constituency. While I hon. Friend's constituency. While I am not responsible for the Church in Wales, I can inform my hon. Friend that whilst has a significantly higher proportion of listed places of worship than England, and most buildings are in areas of low economic activity and fewer opportunities for philanthropy. Now I'd be very happy to put her in touch with the relevant folk, people and in in Welsh, so she can continue to engage with them.

As I've highlighted, I have met with the Minister recently, and I was assured that they would be bringing forward plans soon.

10:22

Chris Hinchliff MP (North East Hertfordshire, Labour)

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Chris Hinchliff Madam Deputy Speaker, whatever one's faith the historic church is in North East Hertfordshire are an incredible Hertfordshire are an incredible part of our local heritage. There are places of peace and beauty are ever present, reminders of centuries of our history and a focal point for village life, providing space for social activities and community life in what feels like an increasingly fragmented society. So, my hon. Friend, agree with me that the government government must do everything it can to support parishes with the huge challenge of maintaining our historic churches so they can continue to enrich our lives for generations to come.

10:22

Marsha De Cordova MP (Battersea, Labour)

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Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. You're not the first to stumble saying my surname, unfortunately, saying my surname, unfortunately, but I agree with my hon. Friend. Historic churches are often cornerstones of our local cornerstones of our local communities, and even if some members of that community are not regular churchgoers or attend church services regularly, they also see that those that those churches are, are, are places where they could actually call their own and identify with where they gather in those spaces for different events, whether that is major life events like weddings, we all have to attend them for election hustings as well as concerts.

So we all know how important our historical buildings are, and we know the actual social value that these buildings also have. With an estimated estimated 55 billion and with every investment of £1 in the church, a return of £16 goes into local community through outreach and community support. So I'm also pleased that the government will be publishing the evaluation report of the Listed Places of Worship scheme soon.

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Circumstances. Madam Deputy Speaker there. Does

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Madam Deputy Speaker there. Does the hon. Lady agree that there are practical, practical consequences

10:24

Sir Christopher Chope MP (Christchurch, Conservative)

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practical, practical consequences flowing from the failure of the government members? >> There is a conversation taking

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There is a conversation taking place, a debate across the chamber. Sir Christopher Chope. I'm grateful. Madam Deputy Speaker, does the hon. Lady accept Speaker, does the hon. Lady accept that there are practical consequences flowing from the intolerable delay in the government making an announcement about this? For example, All Saints Church in Mudeford is has got repairs underway, as has Christchurch Priory and the consequences of the government not doing anything about this scheme is it's going to cost hundreds of thousands of pounds extra for those churches.

10:24

Marsha De Cordova MP (Battersea, Labour)

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Marsha de Cordova. >> Marsha de Cordova. >> Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker, and I thank the hon. Member for his question. And he is right that any question. And he is right that any further delay will continue to bring uncertainty to many churches across across the country. So it's really important, and I'm reassured that the government will be coming forward with plans soon. And indeed, I think we heard the Secretary of State during Department for culture, Media and Sport questions prior to church questions say that the government will be coming forward with plans soon.

10:25

Alicia Kearns MP (Rutland and Stamford, Conservative)

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Thank you. >> Thank you. >> So much. In Rotherham Stafford the harbour villages, we're fortunate to have the highest numbers of listed places of worship in the country, from tea to ticks over to All Saints and Stamford. So does the church Commissioner agree with me that we really cannot allow these amazing places to fall into collapse and to lose them, because once they are lost to our communities, our communities really are the ones who lose out on.

10:25

Q5. To ask the hon. Member for Battersea, representing the Church Commissioners, what support the Church of England is providing to Christians in the Occupied Palestinian Territories. (907302)

The hon. Lady will not be surprised to hear that. Of course I surprised to hear that. Of course I agree with her. >> Douglas McAllister number. >> Five, please. >> Madam Deputy. >> Speaker.

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Speaker. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker, the situation in Palestine is beyond devastating and the church beyond devastating and the church continues to support the Anglican province of Jerusalem. And during advent last year, the Archbishop of York visited the West Bank, meeting Christian Palestinian families affected by settler violence and affected by settler violence and witnessing tensions first hand. The Church of Scotland and the Scottish Episcopal Church are also working with the Palestinian community. Senior clergy have visited the Tent of Nations to also promote peace of Nations to also promote peace and justice.

of.

10:26

Marsha De Cordova MP (Battersea, Labour)

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The.

10:26

Douglas McAllister MP (West Dunbartonshire, Labour)

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37 international aid organisations Israel has sought to bar or deregister. This will have bar or deregister. This will have severe impacts on humanitarian aid delivery in Gaza. Also at Midnight Mass at Christ the Redeemer Church in the West Bank, they adorned their Christmas tree not with baubles but with the names of the lands expected to be occupied or already stolen by illegal settlers. So what support can the church provide to these brave Christians in occupied Palestinian territories?

10:26

Marsha De Cordova MP (Battersea, Labour)

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Thank you. >> Thank you. >> And the hon. Member will not be surprised to learn that this the issue of what is happening in Palestine has featured heavily Palestine has featured heavily during Church Question Time for the for the past year. Now, Israel for the past year. Now, Israel revoking licenses of dozens of aid agencies in Gaza and the West Bank will only worsen the situation. As I've outlined during the Archbishop of York recent visit, he met with Christian families affected by settler violence and faced with tense stand offs with settlers, as well as some of the challenges they faced around displacement and damage to to their land.

And I'm pleased to say that bishops will also be making another pilgrimage to Palestine in the very near future, but I can I just urge hon. Members to continue to keep raising this issue, because the sooner we get peace and the sooner we can actually see that people are being taken care of across Palestine.

10:27

Jim Shannon MP (Strangford, Democratic Unionist Party)

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Thank the, the, the, the Member for that answer. When it comes to for that answer. When it comes to worship, it's really important that it is retained. But one of the reasons why people will stay is because they have jobs and opportunities. When I met some of the churches and their representatives just last year, they had said that the people were leaving not just because of persecution, because they had nothing to do. Workwise so what's the church doing to ensure that opportunities are there when it comes to work, and that the work they will stay and they will worship God in their church?

10:28

Marsha De Cordova MP (Battersea, Labour)

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I thank the hon. Member for his question. As he rightly knows, the church is playing a role in the province in in Jerusalem and I would be happy to write to him to set out further actions that the church is taking in relation to work and other projects.

10:28

Q6. To ask the hon. Member for Battersea, representing the Church Commissioners, what assessment the Church of England has made of the potential impact of the Terminally Ill Adults (End of Life) Bill on end-of-life ministry. (907303)

I Madam Deputy Speaker.

10:28

Marsha De Cordova MP (Battersea, Labour)

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question six and ten. The terminally ill end of life bill is still being debated in the other still being debated in the other place, and it's in its final in what it what it will look like is still yet to be decided. The church anticipates that there will be considerable impacts on end of life ministry, pastoral support and bereavement counselling offered by

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its chaplains and clergy. I accept. Thank you. Chaplains work in various settings including care

10:28

Anna Dixon MP (Shipley, Labour)

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homes, hospitals and hospices. If the bill were to pass unamended, it the bill were to pass unamended, it may be required to provide assisted dying services to people who are terminally ill, as there is terminally ill, as there is currently no organisational opt out. So would the church support an amendment in the other place to amendment in the other place to allow, firstly, chaplains to consciously conscientiously object and also an organisational opt out and also an organisational opt out for those hospices and other organisations that have religious foundations, from providing support to those who wish to end their life with assistance under the act if passed.

10:29

Marsha De Cordova MP (Battersea, Labour)

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Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker, and I thank the lady for her question. The church supports the question. The church supports the need for an institutional and individual opt out, as many hospices have highlighted their concerns with how the bill will impact their operations if they were to continue to be no option to opt out in the field, it is crucial that hospices can offer their vital services without being compelled to offer assisted dying if they hold a conscientious objection.

10:29

Emma Lewell MP (South Shields, Labour)

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Thank you very much, Madam >> Thank you very much, Madam Deputy Speaker. Where assisted dying has been legalised and they are opt outs for faith based hospices, this has now been hospices, this has now been challenged in the courts, opt outs and faith based conscientious objections are unworkable and will be subject to constant legal wrangling. This is just one of the many serious concerns associated with assisted dying. Does my hon. Friend agree that this is a dangerous bill and the Other place are right to be given it thorough scrutiny?

10:30

Marsha De Cordova MP (Battersea, Labour)

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Yeah. >> Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. And it is right that all legislation is scrutinised and the assisted dying bill is no different assisted dying bill is no different from that. And I want to commend the bishops in the other place for their diligent work on this bill. their diligent work on this bill. Right. Right. Now, my hon. Friend and I do share the same view on this bill, which she probably shouldn't be surprised at, but we do need to focus on, in my view, on end of life care and palliative care, we really should be giving people assistance to live.

Yes.

10:30

Nick Smith MP (Blaenau Gwent and Rhymney, Labour)

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Lamont. >> Thank you very much. >> Question number seven, please. >> The New Palace Yard.

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The New Palace Yard. Project will be completed this month. There will be an expected cost of 62 million within the cost of 62 million within the latest approved business case. Madam Deputy Speaker, the project included important security works and significant ground and heritage works. John Lamont I'm grateful for that answer, but.

10:31

John Lamont MP (Berwickshire, Roxburgh and Selkirk, Conservative)

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Frankly. >> The new Scotland Yard project cost an estimated 60 more than £60 million, is eye watering and most of our constituents will find it outrageous, particularly as it is outrageous, particularly as it is not fit for purpose. Staff are having to queue for long periods of time to leave Parliament at the end of the day. So can I ask what was the original Budget for this project? Who approved it, who designed it? And does he think the sufficient political oversight of this project and similar types of work going on in this Parliament?

10:31

Nick Smith MP (Blaenau Gwent and Rhymney, Labour)

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Yes. Thank you, Madam Deputy >> Yes. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. There have been different estimates for the stages of the project, which, of course, he's project, which, of course, he's right to point out. The costs have evolved since 2017. But why don't I evolved since 2017. But why don't I send him across the recent Finance Committee report published just before Christmas, which goes through the detail on this, on delays. These have occurred particularly at peak times, and it's taken too long for vehicles to leave, but steps are being taken to speed up the exit times.

10:32

Q8. To ask the hon. Member for Blaenau Gwent and Rhymney, representing the Restoration and Renewal Client Board, what recent progress the Client Board has made on consulting hon. Members on the Restoration and Renewal Programme. (907305)

Josh Dean number. >> Josh Dean number. >> Eight, please. Madam Deputy Speaker. >> Nick Smith madam Deputy Speaker,

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Nick Smith madam Deputy Speaker, the Restoration and Renewal programme has engaged extensively with members of both houses. In with members of both houses. In this Parliament. There have been 380 interactions with MPs and peers through briefings, tours and events in the past three years. Since January 2023, this number is about 980. The client board will shortly be publishing a report to help us be publishing a report to help us all decide on the preferred way forward.

10:32

Nick Smith MP (Blaenau Gwent and Rhymney, Labour)

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Josh Dean. and I thank my hon. Friend for that answer and for the board's engagement with parliamentary colleagues. A full decant from Parliament is among the options for colleagues to consider as we restore this place, and it is an option that I would personally option that I would personally support. However, can he set out what engagement the board has had regarding any plans to ensure that regarding any plans to ensure that Parliament remains in London? If we decant to ensure the jobs of the hundreds of people who keep this place running, including our place running, including our catering and cleaning staff are protected.

10:33

Josh Dean MP (Hertford and Stortford, Labour)

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Madam Deputy Speaker, after ramping up engagement on the cost information and after the House has provided direction on the R&R programme, if we do go to full decant, the Lords would likely go to the 22 building and MPs to the Northern Estate. Now there will be ongoing work done on temporary ongoing work done on temporary accommodation and the related impact on jobs for all of us to consider in the future. consider in the future.

10:33

Nick Smith MP (Blaenau Gwent and Rhymney, Labour)

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Gareth Snell number nine. hon. Friend always takes an interest in ceramics and parliamentary procurement. He'll remember that approximately 85% of ceramic items purchased in our gift ceramic items purchased in our gift shops are either fully or partially made in the UK. More widely, Parliament endeavours to purchase Parliament endeavours to purchase British goods and, in compliance with the procurement legislation. If you want further information, If you want further information, I'm very happy to help Gareth Snell. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker, can I thank the hon.

Gentleman for his continued engagement with me on this matter? Because I think it is something that is of importance.

10:34

Gareth Snell MP (Stoke-on-Trent Central, Labour )

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The the ceramic commemorative tankard in sale over the gift shop over Christmas was marked up as over Christmas was marked up as being made being decorated in Stoke on Trent. But what that means is it is formed and fired overseas, is formed and fired overseas, imported into the UK, decorated and then sold under the rules of the house. That would be considered a house. That would be considered a British product because it is considered to be where the last substantial transformation took place.

So could I encourage the hon. Gentleman to take back to the Commission that when we are buying things in this place, when we want to label them as British, they are British from start to finish, whether that be the food we use, the plates we use, the cutlery we use, or any products in here so we can showcase the best of British talent. Thanks.

10:35

Nick Smith MP (Blaenau Gwent and Rhymney, Labour)

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Madam Deputy Speaker, my hon. Friend is a doughty campaigner for Friend is a doughty campaigner for Ceramics Stoke, the limited edition House of campaigns. Christmas mugs are a popular product in our gift shop. These products are sourced as unfinished products from overseas and then hand finished in the UK. This approach ensures that it's commercially viable to purchase and the retail team can sell the product while maintaining high standards. Could I be very happy to meet him again to discuss this further?

10:35

Q11. To ask the hon. Member for Battersea, representing the Church Commissioners, what steps the Church of England is taking to establish an independent safeguarding system. (907309)

Richard Baker. >> Madam Deputy. >> Speaker, Marsha de Cordova. >> Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker, last year, the General Synod voted last year, the General Synod voted to reform safeguarding structures and these reforms intend to ensure greater safeguarding, independent scrutiny and consistency of delivery across the church and will come to Parliament for final

10:35

Marsha De Cordova MP (Battersea, Labour)

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approval in due course. Ever progress met since the vote was in in February 2025, has been the in February 2025, has been the appointment of Dame Christine Ryan as the independent Executive Chair of Safeguarding Structures of Safeguarding Structures Programme Board, bringing significant senior experience and safeguarding regulation, policy and safeguarding regulation, policy and delivery, and she will provide an update on her plans and proposals to the General Synod when it meets

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next month. hon. Friend for. That update. Will she agree that there should be no further delay in the church adopting a fully independent model for safeguarding, and that it is vital that church authorities and our new Archbishop of Canterbury act to restore confidence in safeguarding in the church.

10:36

Richard Baker MP (Glenrothes and Mid Fife, Labour)

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Again. Madam Deputy Speaker, no one will be surprised to hear that. I agree with my friend's question. It is vital to restore confidence and trust, and there is work being done across the country by local safeguarding officers, often volunteers, and I thank them for all of their hard work they are doing now. The Archbishop elect has repeatedly stated that safeguarding will be a significant priority for her as she takes up her role, and I her as she takes up her role, and I look forward to working with her on this.

OK.

10:37

Marsha De Cordova MP (Battersea, Labour)

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That is the end of the Church Commissioners and the House of Commons Commission and the Restoration and Renewal Client Board questions. If people want to Board questions. If people want to exit, they should do so quickly. We now come on to the urgent question on digital ID Mike Wood.

10:37

Mike Wood MP (Kingswinford and South Staffordshire, Conservative)

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Yes, yes. to ask the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster if he will make a statement on mandatory digital ID.

10:37

Josh Simons MP, The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Makerfield, Labour)

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Minister. joint Minister across the Cabinet Office and the Department for science, Innovation and Technology, I'd like to respond to members concerns about the digital ID policy. The programme has two core objectives. First, to transform the state and make it work better for ordinary working people. To often accessing public services is harder than it should be. Digital ID will change this, providing the foundation of how we transform public services for everyone. The new digital ID will be a modern, secure and trusted way for people to prove who they are and to access services across both the public and the private sector.

It will be inclusive. We will issue the new digital ID to everyone who wants one and has the right to be in the UK, including the around 10% of UK citizens without traditional forms of ID, this will be transformational for how they access services to, and it will unlock government services that work better for people, saving people time, hassle and money. It will reduce fraud and enabling new possibilities for integrated services and make interacting with government easier for everyone.

That is why by the end of this Parliament, we will design and roll out a digital credential to every eligible UK citizen who wants one one that is easy to use and unlocks improved public services. Second, we are committed to reducing illegal migration and will be mandating that right to work checks are conducted digitally. Currently, employers can carry out checks of over a dozen different forms of ID, and for British and Irish citizens. Many of these checks are currently paper based.

This is confusing, vulnerable to fraud, and it doesn't always create a clear record of when and where checks have been carried out. As the Prime Minister clearly said yesterday, there will be checks, they will be digital and they will be mandatory. Those seeking to work illegally in the United Kingdom will no longer be able to provide fraudulent papers. Information obtained from digital right to work checks will be available to help crack down on unscrupulous employers who are undercutting British workers and hiring people without legal right to work.

This is about fairness, ensuring only those with a genuine right to work in the United Kingdom are able to work in the United Kingdom. We will be consulting imminently in a range of ways on how we design this scheme, and we want to hear from people, businesses and stakeholder groups across the United Kingdom on an approach that works for them. A new digital ID will put power back in people's hands, helping to make services more personal, joined up and effective, and ensuring everyone can access the support

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they need when they need it. And it will be. I assume the Minister is about to come to a conclusion is overrun.

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to come to a conclusion is overrun. His three minutes very quickly. I'm proud this Labour government is building this vital public is building this vital public infrastructure to make government work better for everyone.

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work better for everyone. Thank you. He he read that beautifully with a straight face in

10:41

Mike Wood MP (Kingswinford and South Staffordshire, Conservative)

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beautifully with a straight face in because in September, the Prime Minister tossed this mandatory digital ID onto the table as a classic dead cat distraction, purely to keep Andy Burnham off the front pages going into Labour conference. And now it's left to the junior Minister to come here to explain why the policy that he spent months saying was absolutely vital is now being hollowed out. Now, I do congratulate him on his new appointment last Friday. I suspect that he's quickly learning that the price of his red box is to have to go out on a very thin limb, put his own credibility on the line only for those higher up in government to rev the chainsaw, leaving him exposed with only the flimsiest of pretences to protect his dignity.

The pretence that this policy is still a going concern because, Madam Deputy Speaker, in less than four months it has gone from dead cat to dead parrot. And like Monty Python's pet shop owner, the Minister is asking us all to deny what we can see clearly with our own eyes. He does everything short of inviting us to admire its beautiful plumage. But, Madam Deputy Speaker, this policy has passed on. So my questions for the Minister are does the government still expect digital ID in this new form to cost £1.8 billion? Is it going to be mandatory or not? And what on earth does the taxpayer get for that money if you don't even have to have it? But above all, when is he going to finally face facts? Stop spending billions on this zombie boondoggle that's wandering aimlessly in search of a problem to solve and save the taxpayers money? Madam Deputy Speaker, this is a dead policy.

10:43

Josh Simons MP, The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Makerfield, Labour)

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Yes. >> Someone's had their Weetabix. Minister Simons. >> Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker.

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Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. Well, let me answer the hon. Gentleman by stepping back for a moment and stating clearly what British citizens and taxpayers will British citizens and taxpayers will get. Digital IDs will be rolled out free to everyone who wants one. If anyone does not want one, they do not have to have one. People will be able to use that credential to prove their right to work digitally. By the end of this Parliament, which will make it easier for businesses to check right to work and enable tougher enforcement against illegal working, we will harness the potential of this credential to deliver a transformation in digital government and public services.

I, for one, am tired of constituents frustrated by basic problems that we should have fixed decades ago, a lack of joined up government, a lack of control over their public services in their fingertips. This is free, voluntary digital infrastructure, a foundation for public service improvement and private sector innovation, which we should have built years ago as the hon. Gentleman, two predecessors in the last conservative government recognise. But of course we didn't, because, as the British people know very well and passed judgement at the last election, the conservatives gave up governing this country properly, they gave up on reforming the state and they gave up on making government work better for ordinary people.

This government will not Meg Hillier.

10:44

Dame Meg Hillier MP (Hackney South and Shoreditch, Labour )

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Thank you, Madam. >> Deputy Speaker. >> And I welcome. >> My hon. >> Friends, the. >> right hon. Gentleman, the hon.

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right hon. Gentleman, the hon. Gentleman's explanation at the despatch box about the change. We've been here before and issued identity cards as they were when the technology was much older. So I welcome the new approach. We already do tax, we already do renewal of driving licences and many other things with government online proving who we are. But can I say to the hon. Gentleman, could you confirm three things for me to make this work? It must not be mandatory. It must not be a requirement to access a public service.

And for those who choose not to or are not able to have one, including some of the 10% that he mentioned, the need to be really clear and established workarounds so that they do not see a diminished service.

10:45

Josh Simons MP, The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Makerfield, Labour)

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So what's the point of it? >> Well, can I thank the hon. Lady for her constructive questions on each of those three questions? First, the digital ID will be free First, the digital ID will be free for everyone who wants one. Second, it will not be a conditional basis for access to public services. The Prime Minister has been very clear on that, and I can underscore that commitment. And third, it will be rolled out involving one of the largest digital inclusion programmes that the UK government has ever done.

10:45

Bobby Dean MP (Carshalton and Wallington, Liberal Democrat)

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Liberal Democrat spokesperson Bobby Dean. >> Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. Another day, another U-turn. Have Another day, another U-turn. Have you ever seen a government, a new government so lacking in conviction when they announced their plan for when they announced their plan for change? I don't think anybody in this place realised it was a plan to change every single one of their own policies. This is becoming a shambles. The Liberal Democrats lack no such conviction on this issue. We have been opposed to ID cards for over 20 years.

Will the Minister confirm? Because he said repeatedly, this is going to save people money, but it's a multi-billion pound project. Taxpayers money is being spent on this. How much has been spent on it so far, and how much does the government intend to spend on this scheme?

10:46

Josh Simons MP, The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Makerfield, Labour)

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As I've mentioned before, to the >> As I've mentioned before, to the hon. Gentleman and in this House, the design and the delivery of this scheme will be subject to the consultation that we are launching consultation that we are launching in a few weeks and choices will be made about that scheme in that consultation. After those choices are made, we will have much more detailed costings available to this House. But the crucial thing is this Nations that have already developed digital ID programmes all over the world have realised massive, significant and quantified savings.

So let me give you an example. India's digital ID program has saved an estimated $10 billion per year by ensuring that public resources are accurately targeted at those who are eligible to receive them. That is what this government will be doing to college.

10:47

Lizzi Collinge MP (Morecambe and Lunesdale, Labour)

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Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I thank the Minister for his statement and it's really interesting to see the benches opposite. I think obviously never had to wrestle with interactions with the state. Perhaps they have people to do it for them. The Minister will remember that in back in October, I asked the Secretary of State to consider making every single element of this digital credential voluntary. So I'm very glad to see the government's position now. I'm excited about the potential benefits of this for interacting with the state.

Could the Minister outline for my constituents some examples of how it could make their lives easier?

10:47

Josh Simons MP, The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Makerfield, Labour)

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Hey. >> Well, can I thank my hon. Friend for her question and to confirm the digital ID will be free. It will be digital ID will be free. It will be available to every eligible UK citizen who wants one. The consultation is going to ask people all over the country and invite them to tell us how it could be useful for them to tell us where they face daily struggles. We have a range of use cases available to us. Every time there is an information boundary problem, every time public services are not properly joined up, every time that citizens of this country are frustrated by having to chase government departments to share information properly, a digital credential free for everyone will help to solve that problem in the decades ahead.

10:48

Joy Morrissey MP (Beaconsfield, Conservative)

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Joy Morrissey. >> Joy Morrissey. >> You may. >> Congratulate the Minister on his new position or poison chalice, new position or poison chalice, whatever the case may be. And given that the government has now realised mandatory ID cards were never going to stop small boat crossings as they claimed, can the Minister confirm when the Prime Minister will complete his U-turn and abandon this pointless and costly project that the British people do not want they?

10:49

Josh Simons MP, The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Makerfield, Labour)

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Digital ID cards will be rolled out by the end of this Parliament, free to everyone who wants one. The free to everyone who wants one. The Prime Minister was very clear that this is a basis for transforming public services, joining up government and making government work better. That is exactly what we are about building public services that ordinary working people benefit from. And that is what this programme will help us to do.

10:49

Paul Waugh MP (Rochdale, Labour )

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Paul Waugh. Thank you Madam Deputy Speaker. Deputy Speaker. >> Young people in my constituency have long wanted some form of digital ID to make sure they can prove their age, so they can prove their age when it comes to a club, a pub or a shop. So it makes their life a lot easier. They're used to using a smartphone. However, I'm delighted that the government has made clear that this is going to be voluntary and it's not going to be mandatory. And many young people, many older people, however, in my constituency, don't have a smartphone.

A significant number of them would need to know what the government's plans are to make sure they don't lose out from this plan.

10:49

Josh Simons MP, The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Makerfield, Labour)

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Well, can I thank my hon. Friend and fellow Greater Manchester MP, my constituents who want to make accessing public services easier. They are fed up with having to fight a system that should be working harder for them. And that is what this scheme is about making is what this scheme is about making government work better for ordinary people. I can confirm that the rollout of the digital ID will involve one of the largest digital inclusion drives ever. We are not going to accept the status quo in which millions of people in this country are digitally excluded and ID excluded, and we will be making sure that we go to physical spaces like public libraries and post offices, so that everyone can access the benefits of this scheme if they want to.

10:50

Richard Tice MP (Boston and Skegness, Reform UK)

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Richard Tice. >> Mr. Speaker. >> The Minister. >> May or may not be aware, but there is already a thing called Gov.uk. And just last night I was delighted that on my phone the ID check beautifully took a copy of my face and digitally connected. And how will the new voluntary dead parrot digital ID scheme differ from what already exists, and how will it also supersede the wonderful thing called National Insurance numbers?

10:51

Josh Simons MP, The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Makerfield, Labour)

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Well, I'm delighted that the hon. Member was so pleased with Gov.uk. I'm sure he'll be equally Gov.uk. I'm sure he'll be equally as delighted when we roll out the simple, easy to use and effective digital ID that that will help him access a whole range of public services through Gov.uk, which he services through Gov.uk, which he cannot currently access. And in the coming weeks, we will show him more about how he might be able to do that, and I'm sure he will be thrilled.

10:51

Emma Lewell MP (South Shields, Labour)

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This is. >> In. >> The context of increasing surveillance DWP powers to snoop on surveillance DWP powers to snoop on bank accounts, removal of trials by jury, postponing elections and clamping down on peaceful protest. clamping down on peaceful protest. The public are starting to become very angry about these encroachments on our fundamental freedoms and creeping state control. It is all inherently un-british. Now, I know this isn't my hon. Friend's fault, but can he please convey for me to whoever is behind this farce that they are doing this government no favours at all, and it is time to scrap this costly project altogether.

10:52

Josh Simons MP, The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Makerfield, Labour)

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Well, can I thank my hon. Friend >> Well, can I thank my hon. Friend for her question? I. I too believe in freedom and this any good digital system must be trusted. If digital system must be trusted. If it is not trusted, it doesn't work. And that will be at the heart of the consultation that we will publish in a few weeks. The system that we build will give citizens more control and information about how their data is used and who accesses it than they currently have.

Now. It will be decentralised with strong firewalls between data sets, so that there is no central data storage beyond data. Government already holds and it will hold the minimum possible data needed to serve ordinary people better.

10:52

Charlie Dewhirst MP (Bridlington and The Wolds, Conservative)

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Charlie Dewhirst. >> Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. >> Now I have to congratulate the Minister on doing an excellent job as a human shield for the Prime as a human shield for the Prime Minister. He says that that this scheme will bring down the numbers of people crossing the channel on boats. Clearly that's a farce. And

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you've just said that you will be able to access these. Just be seated. Just for I'm

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standing. You should be seated. I Speaker. Now, the Minister has just said

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Now, the Minister has just said that we will be able to access certain things that we cannot currently access once he has rolled out this digitalised scheme, can he list exactly what services we will

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be able to access the medical? Let me just restate the argument for him that connects digital ID to to small boat crossings. We are toughening up our enforcement against illegal working, using

10:53

Josh Simons MP, The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Makerfield, Labour)

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digital right to work checks. What that enables is, is an audit of where those checks have happened, so that we can toughen up our so that we can toughen up our enforcement that brings this country in line with international peers like France and Germany, to peers like France and Germany, to reduce the pull factors, the use cases that we deploy this system and that we join up government around will be subject to the around will be subject to the consultation. So I would invite my hon.

Friend to submit to the consultation to tell us where exactly it can be useful. But let exactly it can be useful. But let me give one example. When you have a baby, you have to apply for childcare repeatedly and remind the government what it's doing. It already knows that information. You shouldn't have to do that. Tired working parents should not have to fight the government to get things that they are entitled. We will make sure they don't.

10:54

Jim McMahon MP (Oldham West, Chadderton and Royton, Labour )

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Jim McMahon. revision to the government's policy on the mandatory element of this, and I do think there is some benefit in looking at more advanced public services, digital. That isn't the same though, as ID. When we came to government, the Prime Minister gave a speech on Downing Street and he promised two things. The first one was to tread lightly on people's lives, and the second one was to be a government of service and on a range of issues, whether it's checking bank accounts, seeing what people are selling on eBay or Etsy or a range of other things, the government is appearing that it is intruding on people's everyday lives in a way that is overbearing.

And so can I just ask for this to be a moment where we go back to the Prime Minister's founding principles, when we came to government, and make sure that cuts across all government policy.

10:55

Josh Simons MP, The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Makerfield, Labour)

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Yeah, yeah. >> What can. >> I thank my hon. Friend and I agree that it's vital people trust any digital product and system that any digital product and system that this government builds. Trust has to be at the heart of everything we do. And in the consultation that will be published in a few weeks, we will put trust at the centre of it and explain more about how we are going to do that. But just to be really clear, the reason why the digital ID connects public services is at the moment there are there's no mechanism for the government to join up public services based on what an individual wants.

If somebody wants to share information across government services to get something, for instance, their child care, they should be able to do that with their consent. That is what this digital ID will unlock.

10:55

Rt Hon Alistair Carmichael MP (Orkney and Shetland, Liberal Democrat)

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Alistair Carmichael. >> Thank you Madam Deputy Speaker. >> I'm struggling to get too excited about the change from mandatory to voluntary, because we mandatory to voluntary, because we all know that voluntary scheme is just a mandatory scheme for slow learners, which is possibly what learners, which is possibly what contains it to the government. The Minister has said, though, that he cannot yet tell us the cost because he has not done the design work. But it is a matter of record that the government has had a right round asking government, asking departments to offer up savings to pay for this.

Would it not have made sense to do the design work, have a Budget and then ask for the savings?

10:56

Josh Simons MP, The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Makerfield, Labour)

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Yeah, yeah. from people before key digital products are designed. Good product design is based on what's useful for people, and that's why we will for people, and that's why we will be having a major consultation where we get out across the country, engage with people, get them engaging with digital government so that we can learn exactly how to build this system in a way that is trusted, useful and secure. And that's what we will be doing in the coming weeks.

10:57

Dr Scott Arthur MP (Edinburgh South West, Labour)

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Scott Arthur thank you, Madam. >> Scott Arthur thank you, Madam. >> Deputy Speaker. Given that we're all employers, I'm slightly surprised that some people think that all you need to do to employ that all you need to do to employ someone is know their National Insurance number. That seems that seems a little bit, a little bit odd to me, but I've been there. Checking people to onboard them is a relatively new member of staff having to check someone's passport. I don't really know what a fake passport looks like or tampered passport, and also asking people whose families have lived in this country for many generations for their passport and seeing them feeling insulted and undervalued.

So I welcome this. This is moving online. I welcome the Minister's commitment to outlining the cost of this in due course. But I would also when he does this, will he also outline the benefits both in terms of value and also slicker government services to our residents?

10:57

Josh Simons MP, The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Makerfield, Labour)

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We absolutely will be outlining those benefits. And I would just underscore that countries all over the world have introduced a digital the world have introduced a digital ID scheme to join up public services better in India. That has services better in India. That has saved an estimated $10 billion every single year. That is savings that this country deserves and wants. And that's what we will deliver.

10:58

Rt Hon Sir John Whittingdale MP (Maldon, Conservative)

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John Whittingdale. >> Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. >> One of the reasons for the massive public opposition to mandatory ID is that it is seen to be an infringement of civil liberties and individual freedom. So can I ask the Minister if he So can I ask the Minister if he will give an assurance that the digital ID database will not be made available to the police for

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the use of live facial recognition? The digital ID database will be based on the principle of data based on the principle of data minimisation. The minimum possible data will be stored about every individual citizen. The government individual citizen. The government already has to do what we need to do, which is join up public services better.

10:58

Josh Simons MP, The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Makerfield, Labour)

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>> Chris Hinchliff. >> Thank you. >> Deputy Speaker. I'm pleased that the government have dropped the plans for mandatory digital ID. It plans for mandatory digital ID. It was always clear that the British public would heavily reject this idea. It is our duty on these benches to jealously guard our constituents civil liberties. So will the Minister convey the will the Minister convey the lessons learned from this decision to his colleagues across government, and persuade them to drop proposals and persuade them to drop proposals for eroding the right to a jury trial and restricting the right to protest against animal testing?

10:59

Chris Hinchliff MP (North East Hertfordshire, Labour)

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Here.

10:59

Josh Simons MP, The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Makerfield, Labour)

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Neil Shastri-Hurst. another example of the chaotic approach to policy making by this government. Given the contentious nature of this issue, why didn't the government consult before announcing the proposals? And why didn't they consult before making a didn't they consult before making a a reversal on the policy in the next instance?

10:59

Dr Neil Shastri-Hurst MP (Solihull West and Shirley, Conservative)

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Well, we announced the intention to roll out digital ID cards, and I've clarified today that those will be free for anyone who wants one. And we're going to consult on how to make that maximally useful for every British person who wants a government that works better for a government that works better for them. And that is what we will do.

11:00

Josh Simons MP, The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Makerfield, Labour)

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Gareth Snell thank. agree with the Minister that where we can digitise processes, they can release huge savings to the public purse. He cited India's £10 billion a year. But now that the government is moving from a mandatory process

11:00

Gareth Snell MP (Stoke-on-Trent Central, Labour )

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to a voluntary process on the right to work, and everything was was voluntary beforehand, does the voluntary beforehand, does the department have any modelling that it can share? And he can announce today, perhaps, on what that voluntary uptake needs to be in voluntary uptake needs to be in order to release the savings he cited against the projected cost of the service that he's putting the service that he's putting together. And he also says that as long as whilst there won't be a mandatory element on digital ID for mandatory element on digital ID for right to work, there will be a new digital right to work check.

Is he able to say more about what that will be, and is that system going to be developed alongside the digital ID system, or is that going to be a system that will be developed after the digital ID, when he's aware of what the size of that market might be to be filled?

11:01

Josh Simons MP, The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Makerfield, Labour)

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Minister. >> Minister. >> The hon. Friend, for what I think were three questions which I will try to answer. All of them. Our job in building this voluntary Our job in building this voluntary scheme that people can get an ID if they want one, is to make it useful and effective. That's on us to and effective. That's on us to figure out how to do that, and that's what we're going to be doing. The consultation will have more information about the modelling that he is after, and that will be published in the coming weeks.

And once we've made the design choices about how to make the system maximally useful for people, there will then be further costs published to this House. And on the third question, the digital Right to Work checking system will be developed alongside the digital ID programme.

11:01

Ann Davies MP (Caerfyrddin, Plaid Cymru)

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Ann Davies. >> For colleagues on the other side of the House forced to defend U-turn after U-turn for your own U-turn after U-turn for your own Prime minister's policies, Ministers were reportedly told to find savings in their departments find savings in their departments to fund the £1.8 billion scheme. So will the Minister now confirm that with the scheme no longer mandatory, that department will no longer have to make these cuts and public services will be ring fenced?

11:02

Josh Simons MP, The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Makerfield, Labour)

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The digital ID scheme will be funded within existing settlements, funded within existing settlements, and conversations about that are ongoing. >> Paulette Hamilton. >> Thank you.

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Thank you. Madam Deputy Speaker, I'd like to thank the Minister for coming to thank the Minister for coming here today and talking to us about the revised policy. Well, OK, I

11:02

Paulette Hamilton MP (Birmingham Erdington, Labour)

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apologise, but you're here today and you've given us the revised and you've given us the revised policy. OK. Of which I'm delighted about. I am so pleased that the about. I am so pleased that the Minister and government have decided to make it a mandatory scheme. The number of complaints scheme. The number of complaints I've had in my constituency has been something I cannot. Absolutely. been something I cannot. Absolutely. It's been overwhelming. So going forward in areas like mine that are very it's got a very high digital exclusion.

See, could the Minister assure me that they will ensure that they bring constituents, residents along with them in this consultation phase so that people do not feel that they have been left behind and then start to object because they feel it will go from voluntary back to mandatory. Thank you Minister.

11:03

Josh Simons MP, The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Makerfield, Labour)

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Well, can I thank my hon. Friend and I can assure her that the consultation will involve going right across the country to the places where people live, to listen, to engage and to build a consensus around the design of the scheme. I should also underscore that the should also underscore that the status quo at the moment is that we are not making enough effort to reach people who are digitally excluded and who are excluded. This programme will involve one of the biggest digital inclusion drives in the history of the government to reach those people so that they can access services, and I, for one, am proud of that.

11:04

Christine Jardine MP (Edinburgh West, Liberal Democrat)

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Christine Jardine Madam Deputy Speaker, I had expected to come here today. I wanted to come here here today. I wanted to come here today and say I was delighted to hear that this scheme is no longer going to be mandatory. It will be going to be mandatory. It will be voluntary, but frankly, I'm just completely confused by the farce that we have here today. It will not be free because we know is going to cost the taxpayers. So I don't think we should be saying it's free and we're told it's now going to be voluntary.

But the Prime Minister said at PMQs that we will have a digital scheme which will be mandatory. And can I just point out that no constituent has ever come to me and said our public services are poor quality. It would be so much better if we had a mandatory digital scheme that would improve them. But can the Minister please make it clear? The Prime Minister says digital checks will be mandatory. So while the digital scheme might be voluntary, if the checks are mandatory, is that not just a mandatory scheme by the back door?

11:05

Josh Simons MP, The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Makerfield, Labour)

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Yes. >> I think I understood the hon. Member's question, but let me have a have a crack at let me have a crack at answering it that just to crack at answering it that just to to go to the second part of her question first, if I may, the constituents who email, who are going to be going to find this scheme useful, what they are asking for is more joined up public services. They're asking not to have to fight the government to get things that they are entitled to, and that is what this scheme will deliver.

On her first question, there is a distinction between digitising the right to work checks so that we can toughen up illegal labour market enforcement, which is what the Prime Minister underscored yesterday, and the digital ID,

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which will be free and voluntary for anyone who wants it. Stockton North. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker.

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Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. As someone who supports modernising and and digitising the state, but who spoke against state, but who spoke against mandatory digital ID, can I welcome the Minister's sensible approach and his engagement over recent and his engagement over recent months? My constituents are really concerned about illegal working. Does he agree with me that the

11:06

Lewis Atkinson MP (Sunderland Central, Labour)

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Does he agree with me that the current, largely paper based system of right to work checks is totally unfit for purpose and open to fraud? And will the outline how this scheme will help crack down on illegal working in a way that the party opposite totally failed to do over 14 years in Parliament?

11:06

Josh Simons MP, The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Makerfield, Labour)

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Minister. >> Well, I can wholeheartedly agree with my hon. Friend who's been a powerful advocate on this issue. The purposes of this scheme are The purposes of this scheme are twofold. First, digitising right to work checks will toughen up, help us toughen up illegal labour market enforcement, making it easier for businesses to check right to work and for individuals to prove their right to work. And second, and fundamentally, this is about the future of digital government. It's about making our government work better for ordinary people.

And the digital ID scheme is a foundational piece of infrastructure that will help us do that in the decades ahead. And we on this side have a long history of building public goods and public infrastructure, and I'm proud that we're doing that for the future. Speaker.

11:07

Alicia Kearns MP (Rutland and Stamford, Conservative)

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This government. >> State and its. >> Citizens without our consent. >> From jury trials to digital ID first, whilst there was some relief, first, whilst there was some relief, I do fear once introduced Labour Government will move to make this mandatory a later stage or surreptitiously make it mandatory. surreptitiously make it mandatory. Can I gently point out the Minister? There is no such thing as free. Taxpayers are already paying for this policy, and indeed they're also paying for a new Minister on it.

So can the Minister please confirm that no foreign companies, particularly Chinese companies, will have any access to our data? This will be British companies delivering a so-called digital card for British people. And when will his constituents and mine have a chance to have a say and tell the British government they don't want this?

11:07

Josh Simons MP, The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Makerfield, Labour)

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Well, I can confirm three things in answer to the different elements in answer to the different elements of her question. First, she mentions consent. The system itself will be based on consent. It will will be based on consent. It will ask people for their consent and how their data is shared and used. And she will see more about that in the coming weeks. Second, there will be strong safeguards on how data is used and the future implementation of the scheme in the legislation that we will bring forward.

And third, she may know that I believe strongly in sovereignty in this country. British sovereignty will be at the heart of the scheme. British tech companies will be supported by it, so foreign companies will not be subject to procurement in the usual way.

11:08

Emma Foody MP (Cramlington and Killingworth, Labour )

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Emma Foody Madam Deputy Speaker. >> Neil. >> Barr's car washes barbers. >> All business types that are known for higher than average numbers of illegal working and numbers of illegal working and where right to work checks are variable. Now, the 83% increase in illegal working arrests that were illegal working arrests that were announced this week are welcome, but can the Minister please outline how digital ID and right to work checks will make these checks more robust?

11:08

Josh Simons MP, The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Makerfield, Labour)

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Digitising right to work checks >> Digitising right to work checks means two things. First, it's easier for businesses and for citizens to check and prove their right to work. Adding simplicity in the system, taking away the paper based documents that often can open the way for fraud. And secondly, the way for fraud. And secondly, and crucially, it will allow a record of those businesses that have conducted checks. That's the basis of tougher enforcement, which is the ultimate goal, tougher enforcement against those who are hiring people illegally, undermining British workers and producing a pull factor that keeps illegal migration coming.

That is what we're committed to solving. And that is why digitising right to work checks matters.

11:09

Andrew Rosindell MP (Romford, Conservative)

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Andrew Rosindell Mr. speaker. >> This has been a costly. Shambles and my constituency as an attack on their fundamental freedoms and privacy. So I'm glad the government privacy. So I'm glad the government have done another U-turn. But will the Minister guarantee that this so-called voluntary scheme is not so-called voluntary scheme is not suddenly going to turn into a mandatory scheme at a later date? Will he absolutely guarantee the British people this is not going to be happening in the future, Minister?

11:09

Josh Simons MP, The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Makerfield, Labour)

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Well, as I said to his hon. Friend earlier, there will be strong safeguards in the strong safeguards in the legislation about how the scheme is used over time that he will be able to scrutinise and he should feed in thoughts about how that legislation should be structured to the consultation, which will open in a few weeks.

11:10

Brian Leishman MP (Alloa and Grangemouth, Labour)

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Brian Leishman Deputy. government has done since coming to power, and I'm talking about raising the minimum wage, raising the living wage, abolishing the two the living wage, abolishing the two child cap. These are decisions rooted in Labour Party values, eroding civil liberties, such as the jury trials proposal and digital ID, is not in keeping with Labour Party values, nor is it necessary or indeed popular. Will

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