Commons Chamber
Thursday 16th October 2025
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09:23
09:34
09:35
09:35
Private business
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General Cemetery Bill Lords Third Reading. Now, Mr Speaker. The question is the bill now be read a third time, as amended? Of read a third time, as amended? Of that opinion, say 'aye', I don't know. I think the eyes of it, the ayes have it. Thank you. Chair. ayes have it. Thank you. Chair. Which means now we come to question the Secretary of State for culture, Media and Sport.
Private business
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General Cemetery Bill Lords Third Reading. Now, Mr Speaker. The question is the bill now be read a third time, as amended? Of read a third time, as amended? Of that opinion, say 'aye', I don't know. I think the eyes of it, the ayes have it. Thank you. Chair. ayes have it. Thank you. Chair. Which means now we come to question the Secretary of State for culture, Media and Sport.
09:35
Oral questions: Culture, Media and Sport
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Media and Sport. Sam Rushworth the speaker. Secretary of State. Thank you, Mr Speaker. This government is co-producing a
Oral questions: Culture, Media and Sport
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Media and Sport. Sam Rushworth the speaker. Secretary of State. Thank you, Mr Speaker. This government is co-producing a
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09:35
Rt Hon Lisa Nandy MP, The Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport (Wigan, Labour)
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Rt Hon Lisa Nandy MP, The Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport (Wigan, Labour)
young people, no matter who they are or where they live. And this year, I'm really proud that we're directly
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investing over £28 million in youth programs across the country. Sam Rushworth thank you, Mr
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Sam Rushworth thank you, Mr Speaker. And can I say, as a young man who owes as much to my youth theatre as I did to my school in
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investing over £28 million in youth programs across the country. Sam Rushworth thank you, Mr
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Sam Rushworth thank you, Mr Speaker. And can I say, as a young man who owes as much to my youth theatre as I did to my school in
09:35
Sam Rushworth MP (Bishop Auckland, Labour)
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Sam Rushworth MP (Bishop Auckland, Labour)
theatre as I did to my school in giving me the confidence to speak in this place, I know the importance of youth services, and I'm really pleased that the government has got the Better Youth Spaces Fund, which organisations in my constituents have been engaging with, and I hope that you will look favourably at what comes from Bishop Auckland. But as we've engaged in this process, it's really drawn to light just how stripped bare our youth services are and how few actually meet the 50% threshold of providing youth services.
So my question is, with the minister or one of her advisers, meet with me to discuss how we can ensure that we actually have the youth workers to even bid for these funds in the first place.
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Rooster, can I thank you for that? We had to take the difficult decision to focus the better youth
So my question is, with the minister or one of her advisers, meet with me to discuss how we can ensure that we actually have the youth workers to even bid for these funds in the first place.
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Rooster, can I thank you for that? We had to take the difficult decision to focus the better youth
09:36
Rt Hon Lisa Nandy MP, The Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport (Wigan, Labour)
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Rt Hon Lisa Nandy MP, The Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport (Wigan, Labour)
decision to focus the better youth spaces funding on organisations whose main aim is supporting young people and is absolutely right to point to the absolutely dire state of youth services that we inherited. £1 billion was taken out of youth services under the last government. Thousands of youth workers, hundreds of youth clubs were lost up and down the country. Our forthcoming National Youth Strategy will put youth workers and youth clubs at the
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heart of that. Those plans, and we will invest. When the Chair. Thank you very much, Mr Speaker.
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Thank you very much, Mr Speaker. Local charities will be better equipped to deliver youth services if they could maximise their income from sources like the People's
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heart of that. Those plans, and we will invest. When the Chair. Thank you very much, Mr Speaker.
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Thank you very much, Mr Speaker. Local charities will be better equipped to deliver youth services if they could maximise their income from sources like the People's
09:37
Wendy Chamberlain MP (North East Fife, Liberal Democrat)
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Wendy Chamberlain MP (North East Fife, Liberal Democrat)
from sources like the People's Postcode Lottery. But in spring, the government refused to make the reforms, which would enable more money to be available for good causes, despite supporting it when in opposition. And given that this decision has proved quite controversial. While the government agreed to revisit it, we've heard concerns from across the House around this issue and Honourable friend. The minister would be happy to meet with her to discuss it.
09:37
Rt Hon Lisa Nandy MP, The Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport (Wigan, Labour)
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Rt Hon Lisa Nandy MP, The Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport (Wigan, Labour)
We now come to Shadow Minister Nigel Huddleston second stage. recognise the value of youth services, but the right hon. Lady will be well aware that many youth services, from mental health support to sport provision, are provided and commissioned and then provided by charities who are under quite severe financial pressures. Yet, incredibly, charities were not exempt from Labour's National Insurance increases. Even children's Insurance increases. Even children's hospices weren't. Why not? And is the Department engaging constructively with The Chancellor constructively with The Chancellor about the plight of children's and youth charities? Because there's no point having a youth strategy if point having a youth strategy if you're undermining the viability of the providers of those services?
09:38
Nigel Huddleston MP (Droitwich and Evesham, Conservative)
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Nigel Huddleston MP (Droitwich and Evesham, Conservative)
Well, can I first of all, welcome him to his place and thank him for the very constructive way that he, as sports minister, engaged with colleagues from across the House, colleagues from across the House, including me. And I hope that's a model that we can replicate for our hearts. And can I say to him as hearts. And can I say to him as well, that I really do recognise the centrality of charities to everything that we are trying to do everything that we are trying to do as a country? He will know that my background at the charity Centrepoint and then the Children's Society, was what led me into this Society, was what led me into this place.
On the specific issue that he raises, we have protected the smallest charities who will be smallest charities who will be better off as a consequence of the reforms that we have made. We have also ensured that the majority will also ensured that the majority will pay either the same or less. We do recognise the challenges though, and my friend, the Minister for Civil my friend, the Minister for Civil Society, as part of our work with the civil Society covenant, has been working through those issues with charities.
charities.
On the specific issue that he raises, we have protected the smallest charities who will be smallest charities who will be better off as a consequence of the reforms that we have made. We have also ensured that the majority will also ensured that the majority will pay either the same or less. We do recognise the challenges though, and my friend, the Minister for Civil my friend, the Minister for Civil Society, as part of our work with the civil Society covenant, has been working through those issues with charities.
charities.
09:39
Rt Hon Lisa Nandy MP, The Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport (Wigan, Labour)
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Rt Hon Lisa Nandy MP, The Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport (Wigan, Labour)
Rachael Maskell.
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Thank you, Mr Speaker. The Secretary of State for science, Innovation and Technology and I have been working with representatives from the creative industries and from the creative industries and major tech companies in order to ensure that we have a copyright ensure that we have a copyright regime that is fit for purpose. But our message is clear to speak directly to her concern and the
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Thank you, Mr Speaker. The Secretary of State for science, Innovation and Technology and I have been working with representatives from the creative industries and from the creative industries and major tech companies in order to ensure that we have a copyright ensure that we have a copyright regime that is fit for purpose. But our message is clear to speak directly to her concern and the
09:39
Rachael Maskell MP (York Central, Independent)
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Rachael Maskell MP (York Central, Independent)
directly to her concern and the concern of many other members of this House. If it doesn't work for creatives, it won't work for us and
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we won't do it. Rachael Maskell. Thank you. Daisy May Johnson is an exceptionally talented author of an exceptionally talented author of children's books in York, but her work has been scraped and reproduced by generative AI. She has not given by generative AI. She has not given permission, not received a penny, but lost thousands of pounds. The same can be said about artists, musicians, writers and other creatives when the data use an access. Bill was going through this access.
Bill was going through this House, we were given a commitment that government would do more. So could the Minister set out what could the Minister set out what progress has been made and ensure there is legislation in the next parliamentary session?
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we won't do it. Rachael Maskell. Thank you. Daisy May Johnson is an exceptionally talented author of an exceptionally talented author of children's books in York, but her work has been scraped and reproduced by generative AI. She has not given by generative AI. She has not given permission, not received a penny, but lost thousands of pounds. The same can be said about artists, musicians, writers and other creatives when the data use an access. Bill was going through this access.
Bill was going through this House, we were given a commitment that government would do more. So could the Minister set out what could the Minister set out what progress has been made and ensure there is legislation in the next parliamentary session?
09:40
Rt Hon Lisa Nandy MP, The Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport (Wigan, Labour)
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parliamentary session? Thank you. I really appreciate the urgency of this and the example that she gives of Daisy in her that she gives of Daisy in her constituency is similar to examples that many members of this members of this House have given. Obviously, as a Labour government, we believe strongly that people must be fairly paid for their work, which is why we've put transparency and remuneration at the heart of the principles that will govern our approach to this. Like I said, we have made progress with the Expert Working Group will be able to announce the details of that shortly.
We're also establishing a parliamentary working group, which I very much hope she'll participate in, to make sure that we hear the views of people from across the country through their Members of Parliament, and I will be able to
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deliver a statement to the House by the end of this year on the future of the copyright Framework. Pete Wishart.
Rt Hon Lisa Nandy MP, The Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport (Wigan, Labour)
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parliamentary session? Thank you. I really appreciate the urgency of this and the example that she gives of Daisy in her that she gives of Daisy in her constituency is similar to examples that many members of this members of this House have given. Obviously, as a Labour government, we believe strongly that people must be fairly paid for their work, which is why we've put transparency and remuneration at the heart of the principles that will govern our approach to this. Like I said, we have made progress with the Expert Working Group will be able to announce the details of that shortly.
We're also establishing a parliamentary working group, which I very much hope she'll participate in, to make sure that we hear the views of people from across the country through their Members of Parliament, and I will be able to
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deliver a statement to the House by the end of this year on the future of the copyright Framework. Pete Wishart.
09:40
Pete Wishart MP (Perth and Kinross-shire, Scottish National Party)
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Pete Wishart. Mr Speaker, the government continues this opposite approach to AI and copyright, and I wish she would get this result. But one thing that's really concerned and upset the whole sector was the comments of a newly appointed special adviser to the Secretary of State for Deezer, who said, whether or not you philosophically believe the big AI firms should compensate content creators, they in practice will never legally have to. I'm really hoping that the secretary distances herself from those comments, and this is not the intention of that government.
assurance.
Pete Wishart MP (Perth and Kinross-shire, Scottish National Party)
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Pete Wishart. Mr Speaker, the government continues this opposite approach to AI and copyright, and I wish she would get this result. But one thing that's really concerned and upset the whole sector was the comments of a newly appointed special adviser to the Secretary of State for Deezer, who said, whether or not you philosophically believe the big AI firms should compensate content creators, they in practice will never legally have to. I'm really hoping that the secretary distances herself from those comments, and this is not the intention of that government.
assurance.
09:41
Rt Hon Lisa Nandy MP, The Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport (Wigan, Labour)
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Rt Hon Lisa Nandy MP, The Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport (Wigan, Labour)
That is not the intention of the government. And he says that it's been a haphazard approach, but actually, there's no country in the world that has yet managed to resolve this. We appreciate the urgency of it. We've determined to do it, and we're determined to become the gold standard for how you approach this. The creative industries are at the centre of our industrial strategy for a reason, because we know that they are. They lead the world, they light up the world.
And in whatever AI model of the develops in the future, content, human content, good quality content will be at the heart of that. We've got to protect it. We will protect assurance.
And in whatever AI model of the develops in the future, content, human content, good quality content will be at the heart of that. We've got to protect it. We will protect assurance.
09:42
Rt Hon Ian Murray MP, The Minister of State, Department for Culture, Media and Sport (Edinburgh South, Labour)
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Rt Hon Ian Murray MP, The Minister of State, Department for Culture, Media and Sport (Edinburgh South, Labour)
Who used to manage a.
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university, a local band. I understand that grassroots music is the lifeblood of the music industry, all available on all bad record stores. The government is committed to supporting live music industries, introduction of a voluntary levy on tickets for stadium and arenas shows that money stadium and arenas shows that money will be pledged straight into the grassroots music sector, and the government is providing up to £30 million for the music growth
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university, a local band. I understand that grassroots music is the lifeblood of the music industry, all available on all bad record stores. The government is committed to supporting live music industries, introduction of a voluntary levy on tickets for stadium and arenas shows that money stadium and arenas shows that money will be pledged straight into the grassroots music sector, and the government is providing up to £30 million for the music growth
09:42
Luke Taylor MP (Sutton and Cheam, Liberal Democrat)
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Luke Taylor MP (Sutton and Cheam, Liberal Democrat)
package, which provide further government support to grassroots venues by fostering domestic growth, talent development and music exports.
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Luke Taylor. Thank you, Mr Speaker. Grassroots music venues across the country. Particularly across London, are
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Particularly across London, are finding it increasingly difficult. Survivors customers are spending less when they when they come to less when they when they come to gigs because of the cost of living crisis. Can the minister explain the crisis. Can the minister explain the progress on the on the levy, but also whether he'll consider the Lib Dem calls to reverse the National Insurance rise on small businesses, to give venues like the Sound Lounge and the Cryer Arts Centre in Sutton, who are so valued to our local
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Luke Taylor. Thank you, Mr Speaker. Grassroots music venues across the country. Particularly across London, are
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Particularly across London, are finding it increasingly difficult. Survivors customers are spending less when they when they come to less when they when they come to gigs because of the cost of living crisis. Can the minister explain the crisis. Can the minister explain the progress on the on the levy, but also whether he'll consider the Lib Dem calls to reverse the National Insurance rise on small businesses, to give venues like the Sound Lounge and the Cryer Arts Centre in Sutton, who are so valued to our local
09:43
Rt Hon Ian Murray MP, The Minister of State, Department for Culture, Media and Sport (Edinburgh South, Labour)
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who are so valued to our local community the best chance to survive and thrive. Yeah. Yes, the honourable gentleman
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Yes, the honourable gentleman lays out the difficulties of which there are many for the live music sector and potentially to the venues sector and potentially to the venues and many of them in his own constituency. We want to see 50% of all ticket sales for stadium and arena shows in 2026. Enter that music levy. That is the aspiration of this government, and we would encourage all of the providers of tickets to do so in the autumn 2024 budget, as he suggests. The Chancellor said it plans to transform the business rates system over this Parliament.
These reforms will provide certainty and support to businesses, including music venues, and the government has been engaging with the live music sector on business rates. Reforms have set out further policy details in this month. In next month's budget.
Rt Hon Ian Murray MP, The Minister of State, Department for Culture, Media and Sport (Edinburgh South, Labour)
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who are so valued to our local community the best chance to survive and thrive. Yeah. Yes, the honourable gentleman
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Yes, the honourable gentleman lays out the difficulties of which there are many for the live music sector and potentially to the venues sector and potentially to the venues and many of them in his own constituency. We want to see 50% of all ticket sales for stadium and arena shows in 2026. Enter that music levy. That is the aspiration of this government, and we would encourage all of the providers of tickets to do so in the autumn 2024 budget, as he suggests. The Chancellor said it plans to transform the business rates system over this Parliament.
These reforms will provide certainty and support to businesses, including music venues, and the government has been engaging with the live music sector on business rates. Reforms have set out further policy details in this month. In next month's budget.
09:43
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Liberal Democrat spokesperson I submit. Minister.
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To his place? I look forward to working with him. I'm delighted to hear he's a keen musician because since Brexit, British museums, British music start again. Since Brexit, British musicians European Brexit, British musicians European tours have dropped by around 9% year on year. There's a mountain of bureaucracy blocks those hoping to cut their teeth on the European cut their teeth on the European circuit in Frome and East Somerset. I'm very lucky to have musicians who travel in Europe, but who won't have travel in Europe, but who won't have a team of people to do this paperwork for them with the minister provide us with an update on what
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To his place? I look forward to working with him. I'm delighted to hear he's a keen musician because since Brexit, British museums, British music start again. Since Brexit, British musicians European Brexit, British musicians European tours have dropped by around 9% year on year. There's a mountain of bureaucracy blocks those hoping to cut their teeth on the European cut their teeth on the European circuit in Frome and East Somerset. I'm very lucky to have musicians who travel in Europe, but who won't have travel in Europe, but who won't have a team of people to do this paperwork for them with the minister provide us with an update on what
09:44
Rt Hon Ian Murray MP, The Minister of State, Department for Culture, Media and Sport (Edinburgh South, Labour)
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provide us with an update on what tangible steps have been taken since the so-called reset deal. Touring artists so that our musicians can more. OK. Mr.
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Mr. Mr Speaker, let me correct the record. I didn't say I was a musician, said I managed a band. I musician, said I managed a band. I didn't like that to be incorrectly recorded in Hansard. But thanks very much for the encouragement in any case, and this is a priority for this government to try and resolve this. It was, of course, mentioned in the EU UK Reset Summit agreement. We are working very hard with the Paymaster General who takes forward those negotiations.
I'm already in touch with the European Commissioner for culture. I can assure you that we'll do everything we possibly can to get this agreement, and this commitment over the line.
Rt Hon Ian Murray MP, The Minister of State, Department for Culture, Media and Sport (Edinburgh South, Labour)
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provide us with an update on what tangible steps have been taken since the so-called reset deal. Touring artists so that our musicians can more. OK. Mr.
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Mr. Mr Speaker, let me correct the record. I didn't say I was a musician, said I managed a band. I musician, said I managed a band. I didn't like that to be incorrectly recorded in Hansard. But thanks very much for the encouragement in any case, and this is a priority for this government to try and resolve this. It was, of course, mentioned in the EU UK Reset Summit agreement. We are working very hard with the Paymaster General who takes forward those negotiations.
I'm already in touch with the European Commissioner for culture. I can assure you that we'll do everything we possibly can to get this agreement, and this commitment over the line.
09:44
09:45
Stephanie Peacock MP, Parliamentary Under Secretary of State (Department for Culture, Media and Sport) (Barnsley South, Labour)
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Stephanie Peacock MP, Parliamentary Under Secretary of State (Department for Culture, Media and Sport) (Barnsley South, Labour)
Question. Thorpe. Mr Speaker. proud. growth and success of the motorsport industry. In supporting them. We have recently published the Advanced Manufacturing Sector Plan, a plan with automotive at its heart, aiming to nearly double the annual business investment in the sector to 39 billion by 2035, with 84% of advanced manufacturing jobs based outside of London.
09:45
Mr Will Forster MP (Woking, Liberal Democrat)
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Mr Will Forster MP (Woking, Liberal Democrat)
Ulster.
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Thank you, Mr Speaker. As well as congratulating McLaren, based in my constituency of Woking, for winning the Formula One constructors title for the second season in the row, will the Minister also agree to ask will the Minister also agree to ask The Chancellor to check for her to change the tax on sustainable fuel, so that this country can continue to
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Thank you, Mr Speaker. As well as congratulating McLaren, based in my constituency of Woking, for winning the Formula One constructors title for the second season in the row, will the Minister also agree to ask will the Minister also agree to ask The Chancellor to check for her to change the tax on sustainable fuel, so that this country can continue to
09:45
Stephanie Peacock MP, Parliamentary Under Secretary of State (Department for Culture, Media and Sport) (Barnsley South, Labour)
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so that this country can continue to have a leading place in the motoring industry? Well, I'm grateful over course,
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Well, I'm grateful over course, I'd like to congratulate McLaren on back to back constructors Championship victories in Formula One, and I'm sure the support they One, and I'm sure the support they receive in Woking is in no small part of that. Alongside the Secretary of State, I attended the British Grand Prix in the summer and witnessed McLaren and Britain's own Lando Norris claimed victory. My department will continue, as you say, in close contact with Formula One, and I reflect his comments to The Chancellor.
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Jenny Riddell-Carpenter five. Please, Mr Speaker. Yes, Minister. The government is committed to
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The government is committed to supporting the visitor economy in the rural and coastal communities, recognising the potential the sector has to contribute to economic growth and pride in place of an area through ongoing dialogue with other departments and ministers, we are departments and ministers, we are exploring how best to support communities and businesses, including through our forthcoming
Stephanie Peacock MP, Parliamentary Under Secretary of State (Department for Culture, Media and Sport) (Barnsley South, Labour)
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so that this country can continue to have a leading place in the motoring industry? Well, I'm grateful over course,
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Well, I'm grateful over course, I'd like to congratulate McLaren on back to back constructors Championship victories in Formula One, and I'm sure the support they One, and I'm sure the support they receive in Woking is in no small part of that. Alongside the Secretary of State, I attended the British Grand Prix in the summer and witnessed McLaren and Britain's own Lando Norris claimed victory. My department will continue, as you say, in close contact with Formula One, and I reflect his comments to The Chancellor.
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Jenny Riddell-Carpenter five. Please, Mr Speaker. Yes, Minister. The government is committed to
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The government is committed to supporting the visitor economy in the rural and coastal communities, recognising the potential the sector has to contribute to economic growth and pride in place of an area through ongoing dialogue with other departments and ministers, we are departments and ministers, we are exploring how best to support communities and businesses, including through our forthcoming
09:46
Jenny Riddell-Carpenter MP (Suffolk Coastal, Labour)
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Vista Economy Growth Plan. Thank you, Mr Speaker. Can I thank the Minister. For her response? Suffolk Coastal
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For her response? Suffolk Coastal is proud to be the tourism capital of Suffolk, but we also wear the badge. Of hosting possibly.
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Of hosting possibly. The most number of insects in a small ten mile radius. Suffolk Coastal is home to Aldeburgh, Southwold, Woodbridge and Saxmundham, and every day I speak to businesses and constituents about the impact of the lack of coordination of these concepts in a very small geography, now investing in energy, infrastructure and tourism don't need to be in conflict. Mr Speaker, can I ask the Minister if she's having conversations with Disney's about how we can better coordinate? And if she isn't, will she? Thank you Minister.
Jenny Riddell-Carpenter MP (Suffolk Coastal, Labour)
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Vista Economy Growth Plan. Thank you, Mr Speaker. Can I thank the Minister. For her response? Suffolk Coastal
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For her response? Suffolk Coastal is proud to be the tourism capital of Suffolk, but we also wear the badge. Of hosting possibly.
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Of hosting possibly. The most number of insects in a small ten mile radius. Suffolk Coastal is home to Aldeburgh, Southwold, Woodbridge and Saxmundham, and every day I speak to businesses and constituents about the impact of the lack of coordination of these concepts in a very small geography, now investing in energy, infrastructure and tourism don't need to be in conflict. Mr Speaker, can I ask the Minister if she's having conversations with Disney's about how we can better coordinate? And if she isn't, will she? Thank you Minister.
09:47
Stephanie Peacock MP, Parliamentary Under Secretary of State (Department for Culture, Media and Sport) (Barnsley South, Labour)
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Stephanie Peacock MP, Parliamentary Under Secretary of State (Department for Culture, Media and Sport) (Barnsley South, Labour)
Well, I'm grateful. I, of course, want to recognise how important the tourism and hospitality sectors are to Suffolk, and I know the Honourable lady is a strong champion for them and for her area. DCMS works closely with other departments including Disney and MHCLG, to ensure that the needs of the visitor economy are considered as part of the planning and delivery for large scale projects. The government does acknowledge concerns that numerous projects may be consented to in one region, and the cumulative impacts from schemes are considered as they move individually through the end CIP regime.
I will reflect her comments to MHCLG, but of course such large infrastructure projects are indeed important for the country.
I will reflect her comments to MHCLG, but of course such large infrastructure projects are indeed important for the country.
09:47
Rt Hon David Mundell MP (Dumfriesshire, Clydesdale and Tweeddale, Conservative)
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Rt Hon David Mundell MP (Dumfriesshire, Clydesdale and Tweeddale, Conservative)
David Mundell thank.
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Has the largest number of wind turbines either constructed or consented. Does the Minister share my concern that the Scottish Government continue to override the Government continue to override the views of local councils and local communities in consenting for further projects, which are to the
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Has the largest number of wind turbines either constructed or consented. Does the Minister share my concern that the Scottish Government continue to override the Government continue to override the views of local councils and local communities in consenting for further projects, which are to the
09:48
Stephanie Peacock MP, Parliamentary Under Secretary of State (Department for Culture, Media and Sport) (Barnsley South, Labour)
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further projects, which are to the detriment of the landscape and therefore the local tourist industry? Minister.
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Minister. I'm really grateful for the rainfall for that question. I've heard his point. I'm sure the relevant secretary should say, and
Stephanie Peacock MP, Parliamentary Under Secretary of State (Department for Culture, Media and Sport) (Barnsley South, Labour)
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further projects, which are to the detriment of the landscape and therefore the local tourist industry? Minister.
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Minister. I'm really grateful for the rainfall for that question. I've heard his point. I'm sure the relevant secretary should say, and
09:48
09:48
Stephanie Peacock MP, Parliamentary Under Secretary of State (Department for Culture, Media and Sport) (Barnsley South, Labour)
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Stephanie Peacock MP, Parliamentary Under Secretary of State (Department for Culture, Media and Sport) (Barnsley South, Labour)
She number six, sir. this House and for my constituents that they are deeply unhappy with Sizewell C. As Charities minister, I have met with the Charity Commission to discuss Cicero's support for coal mining communities, and I know the commission is in contact with Sizewell C. I would encourage the CEO and trustee to reflect on how they deliver their charitable purposes. In light of the dissatisfaction expressed by honourable members and local communities, and I would strongly encourage this row to strengthen its engagement with the local coalfield communities.
It was established to support. support.
It was established to support. support.
09:49
Ian Lavery MP (Blyth and Ashington, Labour)
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Ian Lavery MP (Blyth and Ashington, Labour)
A library. organisation dates back to the 1920s. Its main function then, and its main function now, was to support the mining communities. But sadly many minor name are witnessing exactly the opposite at this moment of time. The Chief Executive Officer has rigid enforcement of decades old covenants and dogged intransigence, is working against our mining communities and my party in Blyth and Ashington the eviction of Bedlington Terriers from a groan declared on for more than 50 years as a prime example.
Minister, the trustees believed themselves to be untouchable and have trapped the cool field employees with the utmost contempt. While my honourable friend agreed to meet with me and the Chair of the coalfield groups to discuss how together we can reverse the current mindset of. This as trustees and reflect the real needs of the people in our mining communities.
Minister, the trustees believed themselves to be untouchable and have trapped the cool field employees with the utmost contempt. While my honourable friend agreed to meet with me and the Chair of the coalfield groups to discuss how together we can reverse the current mindset of. This as trustees and reflect the real needs of the people in our mining communities.
09:50
Stephanie Peacock MP, Parliamentary Under Secretary of State (Department for Culture, Media and Sport) (Barnsley South, Labour)
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Stephanie Peacock MP, Parliamentary Under Secretary of State (Department for Culture, Media and Sport) (Barnsley South, Labour)
Well, I understand the grave concerns raised by the honourable member which are reflected across our coalfield communities. I am deeply troubled to hear the example he shares with the House. Charities must and should stay true to their charitable purposes and act within the law and the terms of their governing document, where they fail to do so. It is right that we have the Charity Commission as the independent regulator to investigate. I would be happy to meet with my friend to discuss his concerns in more detail.
And indeed, that invitation is open to any member of this House, as it is clear to me, concerns regarding so are sincerely held, and I would once again reiterate my encouragement for the CEO and trustees to reflect on how they deliver their charitable purposes for the coalfield communities they are meant to represent.
And indeed, that invitation is open to any member of this House, as it is clear to me, concerns regarding so are sincerely held, and I would once again reiterate my encouragement for the CEO and trustees to reflect on how they deliver their charitable purposes for the coalfield communities they are meant to represent.
09:50
Q7. What discussions she has had with Cabinet colleagues on levels of funding for youth services. (905746)
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Q7. What discussions she has had with Cabinet colleagues on levels of funding for youth services. (905746)
Mr Speaker.
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Minister. Thank you, Mr Speaker. We will soon be launching our National Youth Strategy, created with young people Strategy, created with young people and designed to tackle the problems affecting them. As part of this work, we are engaging regularly with Cabinet colleagues on ensuring that Cabinet colleagues on ensuring that the problems impacting young people are heard and properly tackled. This
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Minister. Thank you, Mr Speaker. We will soon be launching our National Youth Strategy, created with young people Strategy, created with young people and designed to tackle the problems affecting them. As part of this work, we are engaging regularly with Cabinet colleagues on ensuring that Cabinet colleagues on ensuring that the problems impacting young people are heard and properly tackled. This
09:51
Liz Twist MP (Blaydon and Consett, Labour)
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financial year, DCMS are investing over £145 million in youth funding. This Liz Twist.
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This Liz Twist. Thank you, Mr Speaker. I welcome the government's work on the National Youth Strategy and to the work to invest in youth services. So far, how does the government expect moving away from a one size fits all
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approach to benefit young people from across. Different backgrounds? In my
Liz Twist MP (Blaydon and Consett, Labour)
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financial year, DCMS are investing over £145 million in youth funding. This Liz Twist.
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This Liz Twist. Thank you, Mr Speaker. I welcome the government's work on the National Youth Strategy and to the work to invest in youth services. So far, how does the government expect moving away from a one size fits all
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approach to benefit young people from across. Different backgrounds? In my
09:51
Stephanie Peacock MP, Parliamentary Under Secretary of State (Department for Culture, Media and Sport) (Barnsley South, Labour)
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constituency of Blaydon and Consett and more generally? Minister. I'm grateful to the Honourable lady for all the work that she does lady for all the work that she does in our youth strategy. We have set out the next steps to invest in the future of our young people. We do want to better coordinate youth services and move away from a one size fits all approach from central government. In short, we want to put power back in the hands of young people and their communities.
Stephanie Peacock MP, Parliamentary Under Secretary of State (Department for Culture, Media and Sport) (Barnsley South, Labour)
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constituency of Blaydon and Consett and more generally? Minister. I'm grateful to the Honourable lady for all the work that she does lady for all the work that she does in our youth strategy. We have set out the next steps to invest in the future of our young people. We do want to better coordinate youth services and move away from a one size fits all approach from central government. In short, we want to put power back in the hands of young people and their communities.
09:51
Shockat Adam MP (Leicester South, Independent)
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Shockat Adam MP (Leicester South, Independent)
Adam Speaker Youth services deliver huge benefits to our community, both socially and economically, reducing knife crime, anti-social behaviour and in turn saving the country £500 million a year. Yet the youth clubs that I meet in my constituency of Leicester
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South, including Wesley Hall and. Monzo Club for young people. Tell me there's a real recruitment and retention crisis in recruitment and retention crisis in the sector. With over 4500 workers leaving in the past decade, what
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South, including Wesley Hall and. Monzo Club for young people. Tell me there's a real recruitment and retention crisis in recruitment and retention crisis in the sector. With over 4500 workers leaving in the past decade, what
09:52
Stephanie Peacock MP, Parliamentary Under Secretary of State (Department for Culture, Media and Sport) (Barnsley South, Labour)
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measures is the Minister taking to address this issue? Ballista well, he's absolutely right to outline the importance, particularly in prevention of night crime and other issues, that youth services play. Of course, we saw a 73% reduction in real terms spending over the last 14 years. Under the Conservative government. We are not going to be able to reverse that overnight. But that is why we look forward to our youth strategy published by the end of this year. published by the end of this year.
Stephanie Peacock MP, Parliamentary Under Secretary of State (Department for Culture, Media and Sport) (Barnsley South, Labour)
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measures is the Minister taking to address this issue? Ballista well, he's absolutely right to outline the importance, particularly in prevention of night crime and other issues, that youth services play. Of course, we saw a 73% reduction in real terms spending over the last 14 years. Under the Conservative government. We are not going to be able to reverse that overnight. But that is why we look forward to our youth strategy published by the end of this year. published by the end of this year.
09:52
Q8. What recent discussions she has had with relevant stakeholders on the potential impact of changes to the Listed Places of Worship Grant Scheme on listed places of worship. (905747)
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Q8. What recent discussions she has had with relevant stakeholders on the potential impact of changes to the Listed Places of Worship Grant Scheme on listed places of worship. (905747)
Greg Smith eight seven. issue, the Secretary of State met my honourable friend, the member for Battersea and her role as the second Church Estates Commissioner. Ms. Right honourable friend, the member for Islington South and Finsbury in March 2025, my noble friend, the Minister for heritage, met the Right Reverend purely at the Bishop of Bristol, my Noble friend, Lord Khan of Burnley, the Honourable member for Battersea and church representatives, as well as visiting Salisbury Cathedral and Saint Michael the Belfry in York next.
09:53
Greg Smith MP (Mid Buckinghamshire, Conservative)
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Greg Smith MP (Mid Buckinghamshire, Conservative)
Thank you, Mr Speaker. I am grateful for that answer from the Minister, but I'm not sure the government has understood quite the level of uncertainty and panic that has set in from the government's approach to this grant scheme. Some of the most cherished buildings in all of our constituencies are waiting on clarity for when the government will come forward with concrete steps to extend this scheme. What does it actually mean after March 2026? I'd be grateful if the Minister can give us that clarity.
Now.
Now.
09:53
Rt Hon Ian Murray MP, The Minister of State, Department for Culture, Media and Sport (Edinburgh South, Labour)
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Rt Hon Ian Murray MP, The Minister of State, Department for Culture, Media and Sport (Edinburgh South, Labour)
Minister.
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Mr Speaker, this is an incredibly serious issue, but the party opposite didn't allocate any funding to this at all when they were in government. And therefore we are left with the situation that we currently have. Can I just reiterate to the community who may wish to use to the community who may wish to use the Listed Places of Worship Grant Scheme, those £13.7 million left in that scheme is capped at £25,000. that scheme is capped at £25,000. But the analysis from the department has that 94% of all applications are unaffected by this change.
Because
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Mr Speaker, this is an incredibly serious issue, but the party opposite didn't allocate any funding to this at all when they were in government. And therefore we are left with the situation that we currently have. Can I just reiterate to the community who may wish to use to the community who may wish to use the Listed Places of Worship Grant Scheme, those £13.7 million left in that scheme is capped at £25,000. that scheme is capped at £25,000. But the analysis from the department has that 94% of all applications are unaffected by this change.
Because
09:54
09:54
Rt Hon Lisa Nandy MP, The Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport (Wigan, Labour)
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Rt Hon Lisa Nandy MP, The Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport (Wigan, Labour)
Noah Law. It's no. Mr Speaker. invested announced investment of £400 million in future grassroots facilities. But we are going further than that, and we're insisting that girls will have equal access to any facility that we fund, because girls belong on the pitch. Can I also take this moment to pay tribute to the Lionesses and the red roses on their incredible victories in the Women's Euros and the Rugby World Cup? It's a pleasure to join my honourable friend at Twickenham to cheer on the Red roses in particular.
We want all girls to grow up, not just with dreams of being able to match those ambitions, but with a real plan.
We want all girls to grow up, not just with dreams of being able to match those ambitions, but with a real plan.
09:54
Noah Law MP (St Austell and Newquay, Labour)
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Noah Law MP (St Austell and Newquay, Labour)
No more. Mr Speaker.
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for our public health, but also for. Fostering a sense of community and reducing anti-social behaviour. Yet insane. Also, many. Of.
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Of. The astroturf facilities, such as the Great One at Penrose School. Can't be used after. Dark because they lack
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Dark because they lack floodlights. So will the minister look at how small scale investments of this kind in vital community
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of this kind in vital community facilities could help unlock all year round access to physical activity for people of all ages? Yeah.
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for our public health, but also for. Fostering a sense of community and reducing anti-social behaviour. Yet insane. Also, many. Of.
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Of. The astroturf facilities, such as the Great One at Penrose School. Can't be used after. Dark because they lack
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Dark because they lack floodlights. So will the minister look at how small scale investments of this kind in vital community
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of this kind in vital community facilities could help unlock all year round access to physical activity for people of all ages? Yeah.
09:55
Rt Hon Lisa Nandy MP, The Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport (Wigan, Labour)
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Yeah. Could I thank him for being an outstanding champion for sport in his community? And I'd encourage, encourage Penrith School and others who have similar challenges to approach the Football Foundation. Through them, we fund floodlights and other small scale investments. Previous funding allocations have been far too prescriptive. We believe communities know best what they need and through the Football Foundation we are determined to deliver it. The Chair of the Select deliver it. The Chair of the Select Committee, Dan Caroline Dinenage.
Rt Hon Lisa Nandy MP, The Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport (Wigan, Labour)
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Yeah. Could I thank him for being an outstanding champion for sport in his community? And I'd encourage, encourage Penrith School and others who have similar challenges to approach the Football Foundation. Through them, we fund floodlights and other small scale investments. Previous funding allocations have been far too prescriptive. We believe communities know best what they need and through the Football Foundation we are determined to deliver it. The Chair of the Select deliver it. The Chair of the Select Committee, Dan Caroline Dinenage.
09:55
Dame Caroline Dinenage MP (Gosport, Conservative)
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Dame Caroline Dinenage MP (Gosport, Conservative)
Very much. Mr Speaker, earlier this week, the Select Committee heard from Henry Hughes and Nathan Young, two brilliant swimmers who are travelling to Tokyo next month to represent Britain as part of the Deaf Olympics. It's a competition that's been running for over 100 years, longer than the Paralympics, in fact. But deaf athletes are the only disabled elite sports group that have no access to either government or UK sport funding. So I wondered if the Secretary of State, first of all, will join me in wishing all our deaf Olympians the very best of luck in Tokyo next month, but also will she agree to meet with them and with Deaf Sport UK on their return to discuss how this terrible situation can be improved and they can be supported so much better in the future.
so much better in the future.
so much better in the future.
09:56
Rt Hon Lisa Nandy MP, The Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport (Wigan, Labour)
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Rt Hon Lisa Nandy MP, The Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport (Wigan, Labour)
Can I, can I thank you, as always for raising an issue that has been raised with both myself and the Minister for sport. We are working with UK sport to try to resolve this. Of course we will be cheering them on in Tokyo and I'm really looking forward to that. But we know that those opportunities aren't available to all. I'd be very happy further.
09:56
Mr Louie French MP (Old Bexley and Sidcup, Conservative)
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Mr Louie French MP (Old Bexley and Sidcup, Conservative)
Shadow Minister Louie French.
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Thank you, Mr Speaker. 2025 has been an incredible year for women's sport, with both the Lionesses and sport, with both the Lionesses and Red roses inspiring a generation with their fantastic performances and historic successes on the pitch. The previous Conservative The previous Conservative government, alongside the National Lottery, Sports England and various national bodies working in partnership to help support these partnership to help support these incredible athletes with investment in grassroots facilities, including the £30 million Lionesses Fund, which directly increased opportunities for women's and girls sports.
So beyond the sentiments, the Secretary of State is already the Secretary of State is already expressed today, will she confirm whether her government will support a future? A new Lionesses and Red roses fund specifically for women's sports? And will she also confirm that fairness and safety will remain the key pillars of guidance for
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Thank you, Mr Speaker. 2025 has been an incredible year for women's sport, with both the Lionesses and sport, with both the Lionesses and Red roses inspiring a generation with their fantastic performances and historic successes on the pitch. The previous Conservative The previous Conservative government, alongside the National Lottery, Sports England and various national bodies working in partnership to help support these partnership to help support these incredible athletes with investment in grassroots facilities, including the £30 million Lionesses Fund, which directly increased opportunities for women's and girls sports.
So beyond the sentiments, the Secretary of State is already the Secretary of State is already expressed today, will she confirm whether her government will support a future? A new Lionesses and Red roses fund specifically for women's sports? And will she also confirm that fairness and safety will remain the key pillars of guidance for
09:57
Rt Hon Lisa Nandy MP, The Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport (Wigan, Labour)
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the key pillars of guidance for female sports? So stay well. It was a real pleasure with the Prime Minister to meet the Lionesses Prime Minister to meet the Lionesses before they went off and on to victory in the euros, and we've been working very closely with both rugby, football and other areas of women's sport in order to advance this, the £400 million investment that I referenced in relation to my Honourable friend will double the number of places across the board.
So it is a significant increase in the amount of women and girls able to access sports. And my honourable friend, the Sports Minister was really pleased to launch the Women's Sports Taskforce, which will really grip this issue. Happy to work cross-party on that. I think this is something that the whole House support.
Rt Hon Lisa Nandy MP, The Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport (Wigan, Labour)
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the key pillars of guidance for female sports? So stay well. It was a real pleasure with the Prime Minister to meet the Lionesses Prime Minister to meet the Lionesses before they went off and on to victory in the euros, and we've been working very closely with both rugby, football and other areas of women's sport in order to advance this, the £400 million investment that I referenced in relation to my Honourable friend will double the number of places across the board.
So it is a significant increase in the amount of women and girls able to access sports. And my honourable friend, the Sports Minister was really pleased to launch the Women's Sports Taskforce, which will really grip this issue. Happy to work cross-party on that. I think this is something that the whole House support.
09:58
Mr Louie French MP (Old Bexley and Sidcup, Conservative)
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Mr Louie French MP (Old Bexley and Sidcup, Conservative)
Louie French.
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Thank you. Thank you Secretary so and hopefully she can pick up in the next answer the point about fairness and safety and women's sport as and safety and women's sport as well, because that was also part of the first question. So alongside investment from government and national sports body, the Secretary of State will also be aware that voluntary donations and corporate sponsorship also play a key role in funding our grassroots and professional sports clubs and professional sports clubs and leagues. For example, Flutter's cash for clubs programme has invested £7 million into grassroots clubs since million into grassroots clubs since 2008.
Does the Minister therefore share my concern that the Chancellor's proposed racing tax will not only see thousands of British jobs lost across the country, but it will also damage key sponsorship of a number of UK sports, especially British horse sports, especially British horse racing. And will she confirm that her department has made clear to the Treasury that they oppose this tax
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Thank you. Thank you Secretary so and hopefully she can pick up in the next answer the point about fairness and safety and women's sport as and safety and women's sport as well, because that was also part of the first question. So alongside investment from government and national sports body, the Secretary of State will also be aware that voluntary donations and corporate sponsorship also play a key role in funding our grassroots and professional sports clubs and professional sports clubs and leagues. For example, Flutter's cash for clubs programme has invested £7 million into grassroots clubs since million into grassroots clubs since 2008.
Does the Minister therefore share my concern that the Chancellor's proposed racing tax will not only see thousands of British jobs lost across the country, but it will also damage key sponsorship of a number of UK sports, especially British horse sports, especially British horse racing. And will she confirm that her department has made clear to the Treasury that they oppose this tax
09:59
Rt Hon Lisa Nandy MP, The Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport (Wigan, Labour)
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Treasury that they oppose this tax rate on our British sports? Yes. No. Can I thank you for that. And on on the issue of fairness and on on the issue of fairness and safety. Absolutely. Recognise that I've had representations and conversations with many women athletes and competitors since taking office. Of course, we want to be as inclusive as possible in the approach that we strike, but we recognise that fairness and safety really matters, and we've been supporting the sporting bodies to be able to deal with this, it's a matter for them, but we stand ready to support in relation to the issues that be raised about gambling.
We believe that the gambling industry is an important part of the UK economy. We know it brings joy to millions of people and of course, future proposals on taxation are matters for the Treasury. But I can reassure him that we regularly engage with them to ensure not just that the voice of stakeholders is heard, but also to ensure that we avoid any unintended consequences of tax reform.
Rt Hon Lisa Nandy MP, The Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport (Wigan, Labour)
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Treasury that they oppose this tax rate on our British sports? Yes. No. Can I thank you for that. And on on the issue of fairness and on on the issue of fairness and safety. Absolutely. Recognise that I've had representations and conversations with many women athletes and competitors since taking office. Of course, we want to be as inclusive as possible in the approach that we strike, but we recognise that fairness and safety really matters, and we've been supporting the sporting bodies to be able to deal with this, it's a matter for them, but we stand ready to support in relation to the issues that be raised about gambling.
We believe that the gambling industry is an important part of the UK economy. We know it brings joy to millions of people and of course, future proposals on taxation are matters for the Treasury. But I can reassure him that we regularly engage with them to ensure not just that the voice of stakeholders is heard, but also to ensure that we avoid any unintended consequences of tax reform.
09:59
Stephanie Peacock MP, Parliamentary Under Secretary of State (Department for Culture, Media and Sport) (Barnsley South, Labour)
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Stephanie Peacock MP, Parliamentary Under Secretary of State (Department for Culture, Media and Sport) (Barnsley South, Labour)
David Williams. delivering youth services and have a statutory duty to provide sufficient leisure time activities and facilities in line with local needs. This government inherited local authorities on their knees and in this context, some are struggling to meet their duties. That's why it's
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part of our wider investment in young people. We're investing over 8 authorities. David Williams.
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part of our wider investment in young people. We're investing over 8 authorities. David Williams.
10:00
David Williams MP (Stoke-on-Trent North, Labour)
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David Williams. Mr Speaker, I know the. Minister will join me in welcoming the recent £600,000 welcoming the recent £600,000 investments to improve the offer for young people in Stoke on Trent with the upcoming review of arm's length bodies like Sport England and the Arts Council, will the minister ensure that greater collaboration will mean that our young people will always have somewhere to go and something to do on their weekends, on the evenings and Unesco holidays?
David Williams MP (Stoke-on-Trent North, Labour)
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David Williams. Mr Speaker, I know the. Minister will join me in welcoming the recent £600,000 welcoming the recent £600,000 investments to improve the offer for young people in Stoke on Trent with the upcoming review of arm's length bodies like Sport England and the Arts Council, will the minister ensure that greater collaboration will mean that our young people will always have somewhere to go and something to do on their weekends, on the evenings and Unesco holidays?
10:00
Stephanie Peacock MP, Parliamentary Under Secretary of State (Department for Culture, Media and Sport) (Barnsley South, Labour)
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Stephanie Peacock MP, Parliamentary Under Secretary of State (Department for Culture, Media and Sport) (Barnsley South, Labour)
I thank my friend and I of course, do welcome this investment through the local Youth Transformation Pilot, which will support pathfinder local authorities to start to rebuild a high quality offer for young people. We, of course, want to see greater cooperation and coordination. So I join my friend in welcoming that investment. It is really important young people have something positive to do during their evenings and weekends, and I've seen that in my own area of Barnsley, where, for example, the bands youth choirs support hundreds of young people having attended their concert on Saturday, I wish them very well in competing in Spain this week.
10:01
Jim Shannon MP (Strangford, Democratic Unionist Party)
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Jim Shannon MP (Strangford, Democratic Unionist Party)
Jim Shannon speaker can I thank the Minister for answers that the minister's an enthusiasm is infectious and we wish her well and thank you for all that she does in relation to that back home, the rehabilitative centre, the interventions for young people, is that very important? It's been the local youth justice agency has been one of the ones that has done well in our constituency. Has the Minister had any opportunity to discuss what's happening here with the department back home to ensure that the benefits that come out of here can come back for us and Northern Ireland as well? Thank you so much, Minister.
10:01
10:02
Q11. What discussions her Department has had with the Glasgow 2026 Organising Company on ensuring an effective community legacy from the Commonwealth Games. (905750)
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very. Thank you very much, Mr Speaker. Since we last met, the Football
Q11. What discussions her Department has had with the Glasgow 2026 Organising Company on ensuring an effective community legacy from the Commonwealth Games. (905750)
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very. Thank you very much, Mr Speaker. Since we last met, the Football
10:02
Rt Hon Lisa Nandy MP, The Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport (Wigan, Labour)
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Rt Hon Lisa Nandy MP, The Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport (Wigan, Labour)
Since we last met, the Football Governance Act has become law and the independent football regulator now has a Chair, a Chief Executive and a board and is wasting no time in putting fans back at the heart of the game where they belong. I know that the whole House will also welcome the news of the ceasefire in the Middle East, which we hope will bring an end to the appalling suffering in Palestine and Israel. And I want to take this opportunity to pay tribute to the many fearless Palestinian journalists who've reported so bravely from Gaza, 248 lives have been lost.
They say, Mr Speaker, that truth dies in the darkness. They will not be forgotten.
They say, Mr Speaker, that truth dies in the darkness. They will not be forgotten.
10:02
Grahame Morris MP (Easington, Labour)
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Grahame Morris MP (Easington, Labour)
Grahame Morris.
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despite. Previous reassurances. From reach plc, owner of the
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From reach plc, owner of the mirror, Daily Record Express and many regional papers, they have many regional papers, they have announced that they've announced redundancies that put 600 journalists jobs under threat. Many journalists jobs under threat. Many of us, indeed on all sides of the House, are concerned about the continued erosion of our media landscape, particularly about the loss of experienced and professional journalists that risks driving journalists that risks driving people towards fake news and misinformation on social media.
So can I ask, will the Minister meet with the National Union of Journalists and Concerned MPs from the All-party group to discuss this
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despite. Previous reassurances. From reach plc, owner of the
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From reach plc, owner of the mirror, Daily Record Express and many regional papers, they have many regional papers, they have announced that they've announced redundancies that put 600 journalists jobs under threat. Many journalists jobs under threat. Many of us, indeed on all sides of the House, are concerned about the continued erosion of our media landscape, particularly about the loss of experienced and professional journalists that risks driving journalists that risks driving people towards fake news and misinformation on social media.
So can I ask, will the Minister meet with the National Union of Journalists and Concerned MPs from the All-party group to discuss this
10:03
Rt Hon Lisa Nandy MP, The Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport (Wigan, Labour)
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pressing issue? Can I can I thank him for his work in supporting not just local work in supporting not just local journalism, but local journalists as well? They're an essential part of our democracy. And it wasn't lost on me during the disorder last summer, the way in which local newspapers helped to counter the myths and disinformation that was spreading like wildfire online. It's why we're developing a local media strategy, working with many of the organisations that he mentioned. But I'd be delighted to meet with him, other Members of Parliament and the NUJ to discuss this further.
NUJ to discuss this further.
Rt Hon Lisa Nandy MP, The Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport (Wigan, Labour)
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pressing issue? Can I can I thank him for his work in supporting not just local work in supporting not just local journalism, but local journalists as well? They're an essential part of our democracy. And it wasn't lost on me during the disorder last summer, the way in which local newspapers helped to counter the myths and disinformation that was spreading like wildfire online. It's why we're developing a local media strategy, working with many of the organisations that he mentioned. But I'd be delighted to meet with him, other Members of Parliament and the NUJ to discuss this further.
NUJ to discuss this further.
10:04
Nigel Huddleston MP (Droitwich and Evesham, Conservative)
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Nigel Huddleston MP (Droitwich and Evesham, Conservative)
So Secretary of State doesn't want us. Here. to first welcome the new Minister of State to his role, and I'd like to thank the Right honourable lady for her welcoming comments to me earlier on. She is right. We've had many conversations in the past about many aspects of DCMS not being overtly party political, and that's a good thing. However, there are areas of disagreement, including, of course, in this government's anti-business attitude and policies. Increasing National Insurance and business rates has caused untold damage to swathes of DCMS sectors.
Will she, therefore support Conservative policy for 100% business rates relief on retail, hospitality and leisure sectors? Or at the very least, can she assure me that she is begging and pleading The Chancellor to not do any more damage to these sectors in the upcoming budget?
Will she, therefore support Conservative policy for 100% business rates relief on retail, hospitality and leisure sectors? Or at the very least, can she assure me that she is begging and pleading The Chancellor to not do any more damage to these sectors in the upcoming budget?
10:05
Rt Hon Lisa Nandy MP, The Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport (Wigan, Labour)
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Rt Hon Lisa Nandy MP, The Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport (Wigan, Labour)
I mean, you know, can I can I thank him for his is warm words? However, can I also say to him that it takes some brass neck to represent a political party in this chamber who in recent memory crushed the economy, left working people across the country paying the price. Charities demand soaring as a direct result of their policies, while the ability of charities to stand up and speak up for the people that they represented was was attacked and undermined at every turn by his government.
So I can confirm to him that we will not be following Conservative policies, will be proudly flying the flag for Labour policies that put people and communities back at the heart of our country again.
So I can confirm to him that we will not be following Conservative policies, will be proudly flying the flag for Labour policies that put people and communities back at the heart of our country again.
10:05
Liz Twist MP (Blaydon and Consett, Labour)
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Liz Twist MP (Blaydon and Consett, Labour)
Communities in my.
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Constituency have been devastated by the destruction of Shipley Park, a grade two listed building, in a a grade two listed building, in a recent fire. I understand that there's an investigation going on into the circumstances, but can the into the circumstances, but can the Minister tell me in more general terms what steps can take to protect
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terms what steps can take to protect our listed buildings and the memories they represent to local people? And thank you to my honourable
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Constituency have been devastated by the destruction of Shipley Park, a grade two listed building, in a a grade two listed building, in a recent fire. I understand that there's an investigation going on into the circumstances, but can the into the circumstances, but can the Minister tell me in more general terms what steps can take to protect
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terms what steps can take to protect our listed buildings and the memories they represent to local people? And thank you to my honourable
10:06
Rt Hon Ian Murray MP, The Minister of State, Department for Culture, Media and Sport (Edinburgh South, Labour)
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And thank you to my honourable friend for that question. There's no specific duty, of course, on owners to keep their buildings in a good to keep their buildings in a good state of repair. However, local authorities have powers and legislation to take action where listed building may be at risk through urgent works notices and repairs notices. The government also supports local authorities by providing funding for conservation projects and consulting on reforms to make it easier for homeowners to protect their historic properties while preserving their unique character.
There's also the Building Buildings at Risk register as well, so I would encourage the Honourable lady to speak to local authority to see what can be done to help.
Rt Hon Ian Murray MP, The Minister of State, Department for Culture, Media and Sport (Edinburgh South, Labour)
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And thank you to my honourable friend for that question. There's no specific duty, of course, on owners to keep their buildings in a good to keep their buildings in a good state of repair. However, local authorities have powers and legislation to take action where listed building may be at risk through urgent works notices and repairs notices. The government also supports local authorities by providing funding for conservation projects and consulting on reforms to make it easier for homeowners to protect their historic properties while preserving their unique character.
There's also the Building Buildings at Risk register as well, so I would encourage the Honourable lady to speak to local authority to see what can be done to help.
10:06
Rt Hon Graham Stuart MP (Beverley and Holderness, Conservative)
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Rt Hon Graham Stuart MP (Beverley and Holderness, Conservative)
Ensure. Commerce Commons. Tennis team, I'm very aware that the vagaries of the British weather make participation in autumn and winter in particular difficult. So could I ask the Secretary of State, will she allow any of the £400 million for grassroots sport to be used to create more covered tennis facilities, so that participation can be encouraged, and the future of British talent can be nourished?
10:07
Rt Hon Lisa Nandy MP, The Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport (Wigan, Labour)
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Rt Hon Lisa Nandy MP, The Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport (Wigan, Labour)
Can I just say, as a former member of the Select Committee that he chaired, I am acutely aware that the honourable gentleman is always right. And I, in relation to the specific question that he asks, I have been very pleased to work with the Lawn Tennis Association and others to consider what we can do to ensure that more of that funding is used for tennis facilities. I've received representations from members across this House about how restrictive that funding was.
We believe communities know better the facilities that they need, so I can confirm that we have made changes to the funding allocation so that it's easier for communities access to tennis.
We believe communities know better the facilities that they need, so I can confirm that we have made changes to the funding allocation so that it's easier for communities access to tennis.
10:08
10:08
Rt Hon Lisa Nandy MP, The Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport (Wigan, Labour)
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with me and represented the sector to see what more can be done to support grassroots boxing. So. So can I. Can I thank him for championing grassroots boxing? Our government believes that there are too many sports, whether it's boxing or rugby league, that have been overlooked by government for far too long, and we're determined to bring them back into focus. My Honourable friend, the Minister for sport, has been working with the Appg and will be delighted to meet with him. Can I also say how thrilled I was that Natasha Jonas received an honour this year? Boxing brings joy to millions of people and it ought to be celebrated.
Rt Hon Lisa Nandy MP, The Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport (Wigan, Labour)
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with me and represented the sector to see what more can be done to support grassroots boxing. So. So can I. Can I thank him for championing grassroots boxing? Our government believes that there are too many sports, whether it's boxing or rugby league, that have been overlooked by government for far too long, and we're determined to bring them back into focus. My Honourable friend, the Minister for sport, has been working with the Appg and will be delighted to meet with him. Can I also say how thrilled I was that Natasha Jonas received an honour this year? Boxing brings joy to millions of people and it ought to be celebrated.
10:08
Ben Maguire MP (North Cornwall, Liberal Democrat)
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Ben Maguire MP (North Cornwall, Liberal Democrat)
By Maguire.
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Thank you, Mr Speaker. The town of Bodmin in my constituency is fast becoming the museum capital of Cornwall, with the excellent Cornwall, with the excellent discovering 42 Science Museum, the Bodmin Town Museum and the Army Museum at Bodmin Keep, which is Museum at Bodmin Keep, which is battling for survival and crowd funding to stay open. What is the Minister doing to support these brilliant, smaller museums which have such huge economic, social and educational value, especially as SPF
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Thank you, Mr Speaker. The town of Bodmin in my constituency is fast becoming the museum capital of Cornwall, with the excellent Cornwall, with the excellent discovering 42 Science Museum, the Bodmin Town Museum and the Army Museum at Bodmin Keep, which is Museum at Bodmin Keep, which is battling for survival and crowd funding to stay open. What is the Minister doing to support these brilliant, smaller museums which have such huge economic, social and educational value, especially as SPF
10:09
Rt Hon Ian Murray MP, The Minister of State, Department for Culture, Media and Sport (Edinburgh South, Labour)
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educational value, especially as SPF is about to end? Minister. Can I thank the honourable gentleman for that question? This gentleman for that question? This government applauds and supports the role of museums play in educating inspiring audiences, including in Cornwall and across every part of the country and in every member's constituency. Last week, the government announced that 75 museum groups around the country will benefit from an additional £20 million of funding as part of the Museum Renewable Fund, delivered by Arts Council England.
And together with our new £25 million investment in regional museums via the Museum, Estate and Development Fund. Cat, to be named to be announced in the new year. This represents a considerable show of support for local museums across the country, on top of the £44 million allocated by Arts Council England.
Rt Hon Ian Murray MP, The Minister of State, Department for Culture, Media and Sport (Edinburgh South, Labour)
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educational value, especially as SPF is about to end? Minister. Can I thank the honourable gentleman for that question? This gentleman for that question? This government applauds and supports the role of museums play in educating inspiring audiences, including in Cornwall and across every part of the country and in every member's constituency. Last week, the government announced that 75 museum groups around the country will benefit from an additional £20 million of funding as part of the Museum Renewable Fund, delivered by Arts Council England.
And together with our new £25 million investment in regional museums via the Museum, Estate and Development Fund. Cat, to be named to be announced in the new year. This represents a considerable show of support for local museums across the country, on top of the £44 million allocated by Arts Council England.
10:09
Andrew Pakes MP (Peterborough, Labour )
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Andrew Pakes MP (Peterborough, Labour )
Andrew Pakes.
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You may be interested to know. That today the launch of Peterborough Tourist. Board and our new. Discover Peterborough website.
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Discover Peterborough website. This brings together our great. Attractions like our 900. Year old cathedral. And our great museum.
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And our great museum. As well as the great. Outdoors like Nene. Park and. Flac Fen. Can I ask.
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Can I ask. My right honourable friend if she will join me in welcoming. The. Formation of Discover Peterborough and tell us what more
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You may be interested to know. That today the launch of Peterborough Tourist. Board and our new. Discover Peterborough website.
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Discover Peterborough website. This brings together our great. Attractions like our 900. Year old cathedral. And our great museum.
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And our great museum. As well as the great. Outdoors like Nene. Park and. Flac Fen. Can I ask.
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Can I ask. My right honourable friend if she will join me in welcoming. The. Formation of Discover Peterborough and tell us what more
10:10
Stephanie Peacock MP, Parliamentary Under Secretary of State (Department for Culture, Media and Sport) (Barnsley South, Labour)
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Peterborough and tell us what more she can do to support the visitor economy and great attractions in places like mine. Minister. Well, I'm really
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Minister. Well, I'm really grateful to my honourable friend and I'm delighted to take on the responsibility of Minister for tourism over the last month. It's tourism over the last month. It's been a pleasure to a number of visits and meeting, highlighting just how much the sector has to offer. We want the benefits of tourism to be felt across every nation and region, and a key strand. We will work to look to increase the number of visitors who are aware of the offer outside London.
So I really welcome the work. My hon. Friend is doing to promote Peterborough and I look forward to visiting with him.
Stephanie Peacock MP, Parliamentary Under Secretary of State (Department for Culture, Media and Sport) (Barnsley South, Labour)
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Peterborough and tell us what more she can do to support the visitor economy and great attractions in places like mine. Minister. Well, I'm really
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Minister. Well, I'm really grateful to my honourable friend and I'm delighted to take on the responsibility of Minister for tourism over the last month. It's tourism over the last month. It's been a pleasure to a number of visits and meeting, highlighting just how much the sector has to offer. We want the benefits of tourism to be felt across every nation and region, and a key strand. We will work to look to increase the number of visitors who are aware of the offer outside London.
So I really welcome the work. My hon. Friend is doing to promote Peterborough and I look forward to visiting with him.
10:10
Greg Smith MP (Mid Buckinghamshire, Conservative)
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Greg Smith MP (Mid Buckinghamshire, Conservative)
Greg Smith. facilities, Garsington Opera in Stoke and Church provides incredible training opportunities for young people wanting a career in the arts. Will the minister not just agree with me that this is a vital facility, but what more is she doing to ensure that all young people have those training opportunities that want a career in the arts?
10:11
Rt Hon Ian Murray MP, The Minister of State, Department for Culture, Media and Sport (Edinburgh South, Labour)
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Rt Hon Ian Murray MP, The Minister of State, Department for Culture, Media and Sport (Edinburgh South, Labour)
Mr Speaker, I assure you, this DCMS ministerial team, but also the entire government, are fully committed to making sure that there's full access to the arts in terms of training and skills, that are very happy to meet with the honourable gentleman to discuss that particular project. But I can assure you that if there is any young person across any parts of this land that want to get into the arts, this government is for them.
10:11
Jon Trickett MP (Normanton and Hemsworth, Labour)
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Jon Trickett MP (Normanton and Hemsworth, Labour)
Jon Trickett.
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A number. Quite a number. Of people who work at the National. Coal Mining Museum.
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Coal Mining Museum. Unfortunately. There's. An intractable dispute there, and I've been asked by.
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I've been asked by. The my constituents. To question. To the minister. The first. how.
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how. Proud we are as a country, that we have. celebrate.
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celebrate. The history of the miners and. Secondly, if necessary.
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Will she stand by to seek to. Secure an agreement between the.
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A number. Quite a number. Of people who work at the National. Coal Mining Museum.
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Coal Mining Museum. Unfortunately. There's. An intractable dispute there, and I've been asked by.
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I've been asked by. The my constituents. To question. To the minister. The first. how.
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how. Proud we are as a country, that we have. celebrate.
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celebrate. The history of the miners and. Secondly, if necessary.
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Will she stand by to seek to. Secure an agreement between the.
10:12
Rt Hon Lisa Nandy MP, The Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport (Wigan, Labour)
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Secure an agreement between the. museum. Their estate. And as a very proud Member of
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And as a very proud Member of Parliament for Wigan, which is the greatest coal mining community on greatest coal mining community on earth? I, I would be very happy to pay. I've lost, I've lost that. I've lost the House and I'd be very, very I'm very happy to pay tribute to not just the work of the National Coal Mining Museum, but also the fact that we keep our history and our heritage, and the contribution that the working class people have made to this country alive.
And I'm delighted that I'll have more to say about that later today. I'm very keen to work with him to resolve this. Honourable friend. The minister has visited the National Coal Mining Museum, and I'd be very happy to pick that up with him and work with him to make sure that we possible.
Rt Hon Lisa Nandy MP, The Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport (Wigan, Labour)
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Secure an agreement between the. museum. Their estate. And as a very proud Member of
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And as a very proud Member of Parliament for Wigan, which is the greatest coal mining community on greatest coal mining community on earth? I, I would be very happy to pay. I've lost, I've lost that. I've lost the House and I'd be very, very I'm very happy to pay tribute to not just the work of the National Coal Mining Museum, but also the fact that we keep our history and our heritage, and the contribution that the working class people have made to this country alive.
And I'm delighted that I'll have more to say about that later today. I'm very keen to work with him to resolve this. Honourable friend. The minister has visited the National Coal Mining Museum, and I'd be very happy to pick that up with him and work with him to make sure that we possible.
10:12
Sarah Olney MP (Richmond Park, Liberal Democrat)
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Sarah Olney MP (Richmond Park, Liberal Democrat)
All the.
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The people across the UK. Are suffering in silence with gambling addictions, and the proliferation of online betting has proliferation of online betting has only added to this issue as people are able to wager more money than they can afford at just a click of they can afford at just a click of their phone screen. So will the Minister speak to her colleague, The Chancellor, in advance of the upcoming budget to advance the upcoming budget to advance the Liberal Democrats calls to double gambling tax, which will not only raise millions but will also act as
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The people across the UK. Are suffering in silence with gambling addictions, and the proliferation of online betting has proliferation of online betting has only added to this issue as people are able to wager more money than they can afford at just a click of they can afford at just a click of their phone screen. So will the Minister speak to her colleague, The Chancellor, in advance of the upcoming budget to advance the upcoming budget to advance the Liberal Democrats calls to double gambling tax, which will not only raise millions but will also act as
10:13
Rt Hon Lisa Nandy MP, The Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport (Wigan, Labour)
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raise millions but will also act as a disincentive act, disincentivize harmful gambling? So this government has wasted no
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So this government has wasted no time in taking action to help and increase the amount of support increase the amount of support available to the minority of people for whom gambling becomes a problem. As I said to the honourable gentleman earlier, gambling brings joy to millions of people. It's an incredibly important part of the UK economy, but for that minority of people, we are determined to make sure that the support is there. That's why we wasted no time in introducing a levy that has that is helping to boost the support, particularly towards young people.
We are, of course, happy to continue the conversation across the House to make sure that we tackle this really important issue, but I think in relation to the specific proposal that she's made, we have no plans to do so.
Rt Hon Lisa Nandy MP, The Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport (Wigan, Labour)
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raise millions but will also act as a disincentive act, disincentivize harmful gambling? So this government has wasted no
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So this government has wasted no time in taking action to help and increase the amount of support increase the amount of support available to the minority of people for whom gambling becomes a problem. As I said to the honourable gentleman earlier, gambling brings joy to millions of people. It's an incredibly important part of the UK economy, but for that minority of people, we are determined to make sure that the support is there. That's why we wasted no time in introducing a levy that has that is helping to boost the support, particularly towards young people.
We are, of course, happy to continue the conversation across the House to make sure that we tackle this really important issue, but I think in relation to the specific proposal that she's made, we have no plans to do so.
10:14
Mr Speaker
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Mr Speaker
I'm sorry. We've got to pull stumps. We've run out of well, we're well over time again, just say this is so popular. I really do believe, and I'm sure the Secretary of State would agree. We really do need an hour on this subject. We have so many members who's not got in, and I know the Secretary of State wanted to congratulate her on their treble at rugby league and beating Wigan in the final, and I'm sure she'll be supporting Great Britain when we play Australia a week on Saturday.
10:14
Q1. To ask the hon. Member for Battersea, representing the Church Commissioners, what steps the Church of England is taking to help support persecuted Christians in other countries. (905728)
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Commons and Commission Brian Mathew. Question number one, Mr Speaker.
Q1. To ask the hon. Member for Battersea, representing the Church Commissioners, what steps the Church of England is taking to help support persecuted Christians in other countries. (905728)
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Commons and Commission Brian Mathew. Question number one, Mr Speaker.
10:14
Marsha De Cordova MP (Battersea, Labour)
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Question number one, Mr Speaker. No thank you. Sorry about that. Yeah. Marsha de Cordova. Thank you.
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Mr Speaker. The church supports efforts to defend international religious freedom. Where Christians. Or other.
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Or other. Religious groups. Face persecution. The church has created parliamentary caucuses created parliamentary caucuses involving religious leaders in East and West Africa, South Asia to support legislation to protect religious freedom.
Marsha De Cordova MP (Battersea, Labour)
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Question number one, Mr Speaker. No thank you. Sorry about that. Yeah. Marsha de Cordova. Thank you.
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Mr Speaker. The church supports efforts to defend international religious freedom. Where Christians. Or other.
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Or other. Religious groups. Face persecution. The church has created parliamentary caucuses created parliamentary caucuses involving religious leaders in East and West Africa, South Asia to support legislation to protect religious freedom.
10:15
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Roma.
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Prayer for. The Persecuted. Church. Where congregations across the world will.
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Pray for those. Persecuted for. Their faith, including. Those in Sudan, where many. Christians have been abducted.
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Christians have been abducted. And killed. And over 100. Churches targeted for damage in recent years.
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recent years. I asked the honourable member to use her good offices to encourage the Church of England to do all it the Church of England to do all it can to protect the rights and security of worshippers across the world. Thank you.
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Prayer for. The Persecuted. Church. Where congregations across the world will.
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Pray for those. Persecuted for. Their faith, including. Those in Sudan, where many. Christians have been abducted.
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Christians have been abducted. And killed. And over 100. Churches targeted for damage in recent years.
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recent years. I asked the honourable member to use her good offices to encourage the Church of England to do all it the Church of England to do all it can to protect the rights and security of worshippers across the world. Thank you.
10:15
Marsha De Cordova MP (Battersea, Labour)
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Yeah. Marsha de Cordova. Mr Speaker, I'm sure I across the
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Mr Speaker, I'm sure I across the House, I'm sure we can all agree the situation. In Sudan is desperate. The Church of England diocese have The Church of England diocese have given financial support, practical aid and worked through local agencies and international charities to support the local clergy in Sudan. The Bishop of Leeds has visited the country many times, most recently within the last year. He is in regular contact with the Archbishop of the province there and continues to raise the situation in the other place.
That said, I will reiterate my honourable friends concerns. Sudan will be one of many countries that churches in the UK will hold in their prayers as they mark the International Day for prayer for the Persecuted Church next month. But there is no question, Mr Speaker, that more needs to be done to uphold the freedom of religion or belief for all. Adam Jogee Mr Speaker, Marsha all. Adam Jogee Mr Speaker, Marsha de Cordova.
Marsha De Cordova MP (Battersea, Labour)
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Yeah. Marsha de Cordova. Mr Speaker, I'm sure I across the
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Mr Speaker, I'm sure I across the House, I'm sure we can all agree the situation. In Sudan is desperate. The Church of England diocese have The Church of England diocese have given financial support, practical aid and worked through local agencies and international charities to support the local clergy in Sudan. The Bishop of Leeds has visited the country many times, most recently within the last year. He is in regular contact with the Archbishop of the province there and continues to raise the situation in the other place.
That said, I will reiterate my honourable friends concerns. Sudan will be one of many countries that churches in the UK will hold in their prayers as they mark the International Day for prayer for the Persecuted Church next month. But there is no question, Mr Speaker, that more needs to be done to uphold the freedom of religion or belief for all. Adam Jogee Mr Speaker, Marsha all. Adam Jogee Mr Speaker, Marsha de Cordova.
10:16
Adam Jogee MP (Newcastle-under-Lyme, Labour)
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Adam Jogee MP (Newcastle-under-Lyme, Labour)
Thank you, Mr Speaker. The Prime Minister, Special Envoy for Freedom of Religion or Belief, launched the government's new strategy on the 8th of July this year and the church welcomes this continuing commitment. Obviously, Mr Speaker, it is too early to assess the effectiveness of the strategy, but the church remains concerned with the global and local trends. Now, the levels that are currently happening across countries currently happening across countries are either high or very high, and government restrictions on freedom government restrictions on freedom of religious religion or belief is at its highest level.
Since 2007. at its highest level. Since 2007. I'm joking, Mr Speaker, and Anglicans and.
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for. Her, the. First woman she's made history. Now, Mr Speaker, the United Kingdom
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Now, Mr Speaker, the United Kingdom has long worked. To. Promote pluralist. Values across the globe, and so I welcome the appointment.
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welcome the appointment. Of a honourable friend the member for North Northumberland. But there's more to do. So come honourable friend. The second.
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Commission update me on the House and what conversations. She and her colleagues have. efforts.
Since 2007. at its highest level. Since 2007. I'm joking, Mr Speaker, and Anglicans and.
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for. Her, the. First woman she's made history. Now, Mr Speaker, the United Kingdom
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Now, Mr Speaker, the United Kingdom has long worked. To. Promote pluralist. Values across the globe, and so I welcome the appointment.
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welcome the appointment. Of a honourable friend the member for North Northumberland. But there's more to do. So come honourable friend. The second.
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Commission update me on the House and what conversations. She and her colleagues have. efforts.
10:18
Marsha De Cordova MP (Battersea, Labour)
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efforts. To emphasise the importance of supporting freedom. Of. Religion in their conversations. With countries. With whom we.
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Are currently pursuing trade deals. Mr Speaker, the church is in regular dialogue with the Fcdo and welcomes the government's continued commitment to implementing the findings from the Truro Review and as part of its its continued conversations, the church raises the importance of supporting freedom of religion with other countries,
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including those countries the government is pursuing trade deals with. But I'm. Sure my honourable friend will
Marsha De Cordova MP (Battersea, Labour)
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efforts. To emphasise the importance of supporting freedom. Of. Religion in their conversations. With countries. With whom we.
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Are currently pursuing trade deals. Mr Speaker, the church is in regular dialogue with the Fcdo and welcomes the government's continued commitment to implementing the findings from the Truro Review and as part of its its continued conversations, the church raises the importance of supporting freedom of religion with other countries,
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including those countries the government is pursuing trade deals with. But I'm. Sure my honourable friend will
10:18
Jim Shannon MP (Strangford, Democratic Unionist Party)
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Sure my honourable friend will recognise that. I obviously don't comment on government policy as such. Jim Shannon.
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Jim Shannon. Thank you, Mr Speaker. Can I thank the church Commissioner very much for all those personally, much for all those personally, because I know she is committed to making lives better as well, but also as church commissioner. What discussions has the church Commissioner had with organisations such as Open Doors UK? And even I declare an interest as they pushed for freedom of religious belief in relation to furthering steps that can be taken to support Christians who are persecuted, and also have their human rights dimension just every day as a result of their religious beliefs.
Thank you so much.
Jim Shannon MP (Strangford, Democratic Unionist Party)
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Sure my honourable friend will recognise that. I obviously don't comment on government policy as such. Jim Shannon.
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Jim Shannon. Thank you, Mr Speaker. Can I thank the church Commissioner very much for all those personally, much for all those personally, because I know she is committed to making lives better as well, but also as church commissioner. What discussions has the church Commissioner had with organisations such as Open Doors UK? And even I declare an interest as they pushed for freedom of religious belief in relation to furthering steps that can be taken to support Christians who are persecuted, and also have their human rights dimension just every day as a result of their religious beliefs.
Thank you so much.
10:19
Marsha De Cordova MP (Battersea, Labour)
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Marsha De Cordova MP (Battersea, Labour)
For most people.
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Thank you, Mr Speaker. Always welcome my hon. Contributions at church Contributions at church commissioners questions. And he raises really important point in raises really important point in terms of the church. As I said, they continue to have dialogue with the many different charities and NGOs
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that are working in this area. And I'm sure, like me, he will be marking the International Day of marking the International Day of Prayer against Persecuted Christians next month. Obviously natural, as I said earlier, more can always be
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Thank you, Mr Speaker. Always welcome my hon. Contributions at church Contributions at church commissioners questions. And he raises really important point in raises really important point in terms of the church. As I said, they continue to have dialogue with the many different charities and NGOs
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that are working in this area. And I'm sure, like me, he will be marking the International Day of marking the International Day of Prayer against Persecuted Christians next month. Obviously natural, as I said earlier, more can always be
10:19
10:19
Marsha De Cordova MP (Battersea, Labour)
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Marsha De Cordova MP (Battersea, Labour)
Josh Studley.
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Marsha de Cordova. Thank you, Mr Speaker. Rural churches play an important role in the life and wellbeing of their communities. Funding has been allocated by the national churches institutions in recognition of this and is making a significant difference to missions across the country. Funds have been awarded to the Diocese of Hereford to pay for a series of centres to support rural
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series of centres to support rural parishes with their outreach to. Children and. Young people, as well as in the Diocese of Carlisle. There is Diocese of Carlisle. There is investment to help train new leaders
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Marsha de Cordova. Thank you, Mr Speaker. Rural churches play an important role in the life and wellbeing of their communities. Funding has been allocated by the national churches institutions in recognition of this and is making a significant difference to missions across the country. Funds have been awarded to the Diocese of Hereford to pay for a series of centres to support rural
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series of centres to support rural parishes with their outreach to. Children and. Young people, as well as in the Diocese of Carlisle. There is Diocese of Carlisle. There is investment to help train new leaders
10:20
Josh Newbury MP (Cannock Chase, Labour)
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As part of a three year pilot in rural mission communities. Thank you, Mr Speaker. Back in May, Saint John the Baptist Church May, Saint John the Baptist Church in Slitting Mill near Rugeley held its final service. Sir John's is a huge loss to the community and it
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was such a welcoming and unique church, having been housed in a semi-detached House with neighbours still living next door. Although the church.
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Although the church. Closure was sadly necessary to. Protect the other four. Churches in Rugeley in Britain, mill now has no church as well as no mill now has no church as well as no bus routes. Could my friend tell the House what the Church Commissioners are doing to ensure rural
Josh Newbury MP (Cannock Chase, Labour)
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As part of a three year pilot in rural mission communities. Thank you, Mr Speaker. Back in May, Saint John the Baptist Church May, Saint John the Baptist Church in Slitting Mill near Rugeley held its final service. Sir John's is a huge loss to the community and it
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was such a welcoming and unique church, having been housed in a semi-detached House with neighbours still living next door. Although the church.
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Although the church. Closure was sadly necessary to. Protect the other four. Churches in Rugeley in Britain, mill now has no church as well as no mill now has no church as well as no bus routes. Could my friend tell the House what the Church Commissioners are doing to ensure rural
10:21
Marsha De Cordova MP (Battersea, Labour)
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communities aren't left without any access at all to places of worship? Yeah. Cordova. Mr Speaker, I'm truly sorry to
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Mr Speaker, I'm truly sorry to hear about the closure of Saint John Baptist Church. As I've highlighted, Baptist Church. As I've highlighted, in recognition of the importance of supporting churches in rural communities, the church is investing £11 million with partner organisations dedicated to sharing the Christian faith. This funding
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parishes. Across the. Church of England and this a range of traditions, activities and organisations will be supported through the funding. But obviously I
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through the funding. But obviously I would be happy to meet with or. Even write. To my honourable friend. It's really important that there are
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really important that there are churches available, but people have. Places to worship. Richard Foord.
Marsha De Cordova MP (Battersea, Labour)
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communities aren't left without any access at all to places of worship? Yeah. Cordova. Mr Speaker, I'm truly sorry to
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Mr Speaker, I'm truly sorry to hear about the closure of Saint John Baptist Church. As I've highlighted, Baptist Church. As I've highlighted, in recognition of the importance of supporting churches in rural communities, the church is investing £11 million with partner organisations dedicated to sharing the Christian faith. This funding
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parishes. Across the. Church of England and this a range of traditions, activities and organisations will be supported through the funding. But obviously I
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through the funding. But obviously I would be happy to meet with or. Even write. To my honourable friend. It's really important that there are
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really important that there are churches available, but people have. Places to worship. Richard Foord.
10:21
Richard Foord MP (Honiton and Sidmouth, Liberal Democrat)
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Richard Foord. Thank you, Mr Speaker. Under the Local Government Act, parochial church councils may.
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church councils may. Serve notice. Requiring parish. Councils or district councils to assume. Responsibility for the assume. Responsibility for the maintenance of closed churchyards. Local government reorganisation and
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the creation of unitary authorities to. Take.
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Take. On more responsibility. As district councils are closing, our Church Commissioners giving any Church Commissioners giving any thought to the effect of local government reorganisation on how these closed churchyards might be
Richard Foord MP (Honiton and Sidmouth, Liberal Democrat)
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Richard Foord. Thank you, Mr Speaker. Under the Local Government Act, parochial church councils may.
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church councils may. Serve notice. Requiring parish. Councils or district councils to assume. Responsibility for the assume. Responsibility for the maintenance of closed churchyards. Local government reorganisation and
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the creation of unitary authorities to. Take.
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Take. On more responsibility. As district councils are closing, our Church Commissioners giving any Church Commissioners giving any thought to the effect of local government reorganisation on how these closed churchyards might be
10:22
Marsha De Cordova MP (Battersea, Labour)
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maintained. Marsha de Cordova Mr. Speaker. really.
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Raises an important point that overlaps with, obviously, what's happening at local government, but obviously what church commissioners are doing. And so what I will do is I will write to him to set out exactly if there are discussions taking place with the Church Commissioners, and I do hope he will find that sufficient. Thank you, Mr Speaker. Saint John's in Darlington. Speaker. Saint John's in Darlington.
Marsha De Cordova MP (Battersea, Labour)
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maintained. Marsha de Cordova Mr. Speaker. really.
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Raises an important point that overlaps with, obviously, what's happening at local government, but obviously what church commissioners are doing. And so what I will do is I will write to him to set out exactly if there are discussions taking place with the Church Commissioners, and I do hope he will find that sufficient. Thank you, Mr Speaker. Saint John's in Darlington. Speaker. Saint John's in Darlington.
10:22
10:22
10:23
Rt Hon David Mundell MP (Dumfriesshire, Clydesdale and Tweeddale, Conservative)
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Marsha de Cordova. Yes, Mr Speaker, I'd be very friend. David Mundell. Thank you.
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Thank you. Mr Speaker. Can I ask the honourable lady to encourage the Church Commissioners to share best practice and their experience of sustaining small, small churches in rural communities with the Church of Scotland? Because sadly, in my own constituency, we have seen almost the wholesale closure of every small church in a rural area.
Rt Hon David Mundell MP (Dumfriesshire, Clydesdale and Tweeddale, Conservative)
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Marsha de Cordova. Yes, Mr Speaker, I'd be very friend. David Mundell. Thank you.
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Thank you. Mr Speaker. Can I ask the honourable lady to encourage the Church Commissioners to share best practice and their experience of sustaining small, small churches in rural communities with the Church of Scotland? Because sadly, in my own constituency, we have seen almost the wholesale closure of every small church in a rural area.
10:23
Marsha De Cordova MP (Battersea, Labour)
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Marsha De Cordova MP (Battersea, Labour)
Well, should it. Cordova. constituency and the number of churches that are no longer in operation. I will certainly make sure that whatever best practice the Church Commissioners does have, it can also be shared with the Church
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of Scotland. Jessica Toale. That's a number for Mr Speaker.
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That's a number for Mr Speaker. Thank you, Mr Speaker. With your permission, I wish to group questions four and six. The Church questions four and six. The Church of England has a presence in every community in England and provides support to its clergy and other support to its clergy and other faith communities for its presence and engagement initiative. Our churches work with interfaith churches work with interfaith networks to stand in solidarity with others, bringing people together and deepen understanding, offering both spiritual and practical support to those in need.
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of Scotland. Jessica Toale. That's a number for Mr Speaker.
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That's a number for Mr Speaker. Thank you, Mr Speaker. With your permission, I wish to group questions four and six. The Church questions four and six. The Church of England has a presence in every community in England and provides support to its clergy and other support to its clergy and other faith communities for its presence and engagement initiative. Our churches work with interfaith churches work with interfaith networks to stand in solidarity with others, bringing people together and deepen understanding, offering both spiritual and practical support to those in need.
10:24
Jessica Toale MP (Bournemouth West, Labour)
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those in need. Jessica Toale. Thank you, Mr Speaker. Bournemouth has been made richer by its diversity and the communities its diversity and the communities that have chosen to make it its home. Yet tensions have risen over the summer due to protests around asylum seekers. I want to pay tribute to our local churches, in particular Lansdowne Church and Gateway Church, for the vital work
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they do to welcome asylum seekers and to build. Community connection between our many communities. Can I please ask
Jessica Toale MP (Bournemouth West, Labour)
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those in need. Jessica Toale. Thank you, Mr Speaker. Bournemouth has been made richer by its diversity and the communities its diversity and the communities that have chosen to make it its home. Yet tensions have risen over the summer due to protests around asylum seekers. I want to pay tribute to our local churches, in particular Lansdowne Church and Gateway Church, for the vital work
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they do to welcome asylum seekers and to build. Community connection between our many communities. Can I please ask
10:24
Marsha De Cordova MP (Battersea, Labour)
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Marsha De Cordova MP (Battersea, Labour)
many communities. Can I please ask the Commissioner how we can do more to support those churches and the vital work they do?
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Marsha de Cordova thank you, Mr Speaker, and I'd like to obviously recognise and commend the work of all churches that are standing up for minority communities, refugees, and those are seeking asylum. Our and those are seeking asylum. Our diversity is our strength, Mr Speaker, and our strength as church lies in supporting every member of our communities, including those facing barriers, persecution or prejudice. And I also just want to prejudice. And I also just want to recognise my friend's leadership in the work that she is doing, supporting her local community as supporting her local community as well as her local churches.
It's so important, Mr Speaker, that speaker, that our churches work across faiths
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that our churches work across faiths with all of our communities to cohesion. Tom Rutland thank.
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Marsha de Cordova thank you, Mr Speaker, and I'd like to obviously recognise and commend the work of all churches that are standing up for minority communities, refugees, and those are seeking asylum. Our and those are seeking asylum. Our diversity is our strength, Mr Speaker, and our strength as church lies in supporting every member of our communities, including those facing barriers, persecution or prejudice. And I also just want to prejudice. And I also just want to recognise my friend's leadership in the work that she is doing, supporting her local community as supporting her local community as well as her local churches.
It's so important, Mr Speaker, that speaker, that our churches work across faiths
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that our churches work across faiths with all of our communities to cohesion. Tom Rutland thank.
10:25
Tom Rutland MP (East Worthing and Shoreham, Labour)
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Tom Rutland thank. You, Mr Speaker. Over recess, we witnessed the horrific anti-Semitic attack on one of Manchester's synagogues. And then just days later synagogues. And then just days later in Islamophobic attack on one of our Sussex mosques. It's in these difficult and worrying times that religious leaders can continue to play an important role in bringing communities together. Can my hon. Friend tell us what support the church can provide to its leaders to continue to work across communities and across faiths, and to foster the supportive, inclusive and diverse, tolerant communities that we are all proud to represent in this place?
Tom Rutland MP (East Worthing and Shoreham, Labour)
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Tom Rutland thank. You, Mr Speaker. Over recess, we witnessed the horrific anti-Semitic attack on one of Manchester's synagogues. And then just days later synagogues. And then just days later in Islamophobic attack on one of our Sussex mosques. It's in these difficult and worrying times that religious leaders can continue to play an important role in bringing communities together. Can my hon. Friend tell us what support the church can provide to its leaders to continue to work across communities and across faiths, and to foster the supportive, inclusive and diverse, tolerant communities that we are all proud to represent in this place?
10:26
Marsha De Cordova MP (Battersea, Labour)
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Marsha De Cordova MP (Battersea, Labour)
Well, by saying that my thoughts and prayers are with those communities affected by the tragic attacker.
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Heaton Park Synagogue, as well. As at the mosque. In Sussex. The Church of England
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In Sussex. The Church of England responded by offering direct support for its Manchester Interfaith adviser, who worked closely with the authorities and is known and respected in the local community. respected in the local community. The Church Urban Fund, including the Near Neighbours program, has played a vital role in strengthening
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a vital role in strengthening community relations. And does the church's present, as. Does the church's.
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Presence and engagement initiative. Mr Speaker, I'm sure across the House we all know the across the House we all know the important role that all of our faith organisations play in this and show the leadership in times of desperate the leadership in times of desperate need and suffering. And I just want to pass on my thanks to all of our to pass on my thanks to all of our faith leaders across the country for all that they are doing in fostering good relations, but also bringing
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Heaton Park Synagogue, as well. As at the mosque. In Sussex. The Church of England
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In Sussex. The Church of England responded by offering direct support for its Manchester Interfaith adviser, who worked closely with the authorities and is known and respected in the local community. respected in the local community. The Church Urban Fund, including the Near Neighbours program, has played a vital role in strengthening
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a vital role in strengthening community relations. And does the church's present, as. Does the church's.
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Presence and engagement initiative. Mr Speaker, I'm sure across the House we all know the across the House we all know the important role that all of our faith organisations play in this and show the leadership in times of desperate the leadership in times of desperate need and suffering. And I just want to pass on my thanks to all of our to pass on my thanks to all of our faith leaders across the country for all that they are doing in fostering good relations, but also bringing
10:27
Josh Babarinde MP (Eastbourne, Liberal Democrat)
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good relations, but also bringing about peace and reassurance. Josh Babarinde you. Mr Speaker.
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Will the Honourable lady. Recognise the. Awesomeness of Reverend. David Harrigan. In Eastbourne of Saint
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Elizabeth's. Church, who, working with. The food bank, has pioneered. A partnership. That's been.
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That's been. Featured as an example of best practice by Trussell of a relationship between a church. Leader and a food bank. And will
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she. Commit to meeting with Reverend David and I to discuss what. The. Church Commissioners plans are
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Church Commissioners plans are for the land next to Saint Elizabeth's Church to. Ensure that.
Josh Babarinde MP (Eastbourne, Liberal Democrat)
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good relations, but also bringing about peace and reassurance. Josh Babarinde you. Mr Speaker.
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Will the Honourable lady. Recognise the. Awesomeness of Reverend. David Harrigan. In Eastbourne of Saint
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Elizabeth's. Church, who, working with. The food bank, has pioneered. A partnership. That's been.
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That's been. Featured as an example of best practice by Trussell of a relationship between a church. Leader and a food bank. And will
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she. Commit to meeting with Reverend David and I to discuss what. The. Church Commissioners plans are
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Church Commissioners plans are for the land next to Saint Elizabeth's Church to. Ensure that.
10:27
Marsha De Cordova MP (Battersea, Labour)
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Ensure that. It's used for community benefit. Marsha de Cordova. Mr Speaker, I'm always happy to meet with my honourable members on meet with my honourable members on any issue they want to raise, but also just to pay tribute at to his church that is working in partnership with the food bank. Again, there are many examples of this. Indeed, in my own constituency at Saint Saint Mark's Church. Mr Speaker, so, you know, we all know that the role of, of our churches in our communities is there to provide that social action support as well.
But yes, very happy to meet with the honourable gentleman. Gareth Snell five, Mr Speaker.
Marsha De Cordova MP (Battersea, Labour)
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Ensure that. It's used for community benefit. Marsha de Cordova. Mr Speaker, I'm always happy to meet with my honourable members on meet with my honourable members on any issue they want to raise, but also just to pay tribute at to his church that is working in partnership with the food bank. Again, there are many examples of this. Indeed, in my own constituency at Saint Saint Mark's Church. Mr Speaker, so, you know, we all know that the role of, of our churches in our communities is there to provide that social action support as well.
But yes, very happy to meet with the honourable gentleman. Gareth Snell five, Mr Speaker.
10:28
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Oh, sorry, Nick Smith.
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From firms. Within the UK, as well as those based elsewhere. Where possible, Parliament endeavours to.
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Parliament endeavours to. Purchase British goods. To support domestic supply chains
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To support domestic supply chains or purchasing is in line with the relevant legislation for public bodies, which prioritises value for
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bodies, which prioritises value for money. Mr Speaker, 85%. Of crockery. Purchased.
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From firms. Within the UK, as well as those based elsewhere. Where possible, Parliament endeavours to.
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Parliament endeavours to. Purchase British goods. To support domestic supply chains
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To support domestic supply chains or purchasing is in line with the relevant legislation for public bodies, which prioritises value for
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bodies, which prioritises value for money. Mr Speaker, 85%. Of crockery. Purchased.
10:28
Gareth Snell MP (Stoke-on-Trent Central, Labour )
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Purchased. In the last two years was from British manufacturers. Yeah, Gareth Snell.
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Yeah, Gareth Snell. Thank you, Mr Speaker, and can I thank my friend for his answer? Can I thank you, Mr Speaker, for your leadership on this, the exquisite leadership on this, the exquisite speaker's House collection that you personally commissioned is made proudly in Stoke on Trent by Duchess China. And the House, I'm sure, will be happy to know that it is in stock, reasonably priced and available in time for Christmas. Mr Speaker, there is. This place is a great showcase for British talent and skills, and whilst I accept the answer that my friend has given, there is more we could do so through him.
Could I encourage the Commission to ensure that whenever a tender is offered for crockery, giftware, tableware in this place, it looks at not just value for money but the Social Value Act in supporting British manufacturers wherever possible.
Gareth Snell MP (Stoke-on-Trent Central, Labour )
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Purchased. In the last two years was from British manufacturers. Yeah, Gareth Snell.
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Yeah, Gareth Snell. Thank you, Mr Speaker, and can I thank my friend for his answer? Can I thank you, Mr Speaker, for your leadership on this, the exquisite leadership on this, the exquisite speaker's House collection that you personally commissioned is made proudly in Stoke on Trent by Duchess China. And the House, I'm sure, will be happy to know that it is in stock, reasonably priced and available in time for Christmas. Mr Speaker, there is. This place is a great showcase for British talent and skills, and whilst I accept the answer that my friend has given, there is more we could do so through him.
Could I encourage the Commission to ensure that whenever a tender is offered for crockery, giftware, tableware in this place, it looks at not just value for money but the Social Value Act in supporting British manufacturers wherever possible.
10:29
Nick Smith MP (Blaenau Gwent and Rhymney, Labour)
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Nick Smith MP (Blaenau Gwent and Rhymney, Labour)
But. Mr.
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It it pleases me when I see the honourable member turn his plates or honourable member turn his plates or his mug upside down in the tea room to double check and see if the crockery was made.
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crockery was made. In stock. It's good. It's good. When Westminster shows
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It's good. When Westminster shows off the best of our UK. Ceramics manufacturing. Mr Speaker, where. Possible and appropriate, and in accordance with appropriate, and in accordance with the procurement law, Parliament will endeavour to purchase British goods and support our domestic supply
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It it pleases me when I see the honourable member turn his plates or honourable member turn his plates or his mug upside down in the tea room to double check and see if the crockery was made.
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crockery was made. In stock. It's good. It's good. When Westminster shows
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It's good. When Westminster shows off the best of our UK. Ceramics manufacturing. Mr Speaker, where. Possible and appropriate, and in accordance with appropriate, and in accordance with the procurement law, Parliament will endeavour to purchase British goods and support our domestic supply
10:29
Marsha De Cordova MP (Battersea, Labour)
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Marsha De Cordova MP (Battersea, Labour)
chains. seven.
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Please. Marsha de Cordova. Thank you, Mr Speaker. On the 3rd
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Thank you, Mr Speaker. On the 3rd of October this year, after 11 months, Bishop Sarah Mullally was months, Bishop Sarah Mullally was appointed as the 106th. Archbishop of Canterbury. Mr Speaker, this is a historic appointment. With this
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Please. Marsha de Cordova. Thank you, Mr Speaker. On the 3rd
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Thank you, Mr Speaker. On the 3rd of October this year, after 11 months, Bishop Sarah Mullally was months, Bishop Sarah Mullally was appointed as the 106th. Archbishop of Canterbury. Mr Speaker, this is a historic appointment. With this
10:30
Rosie Duffield MP (Canterbury, Independent)
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historic appointment. With this being the first woman to be appointed to this position. Rosie Duffield.
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Rosie Duffield. Thank you, Mr Speaker. It's my Honourable friends. Will know. It's been a really difficult year for the church. And
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difficult year for the church. And Canterbury Cathedral in particular with the death. Of our beloved. Dean emeritus, Robert Willis. The
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Dean emeritus, Robert Willis. The horrible circumstances surrounding the resignation of Archbishop about. An.
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An. Art exhibition. Which seems to have. Offended the vice.
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Offended the vice. President of America, among other people. Does she agree with me that the historic choice of Bishop Sarah
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the historic choice of Bishop Sarah Milani is the first. Ever woman appointed to the role could and should herald a new start could and should herald a new start for the church. And the writing of the historic wrongs that she speaks a lot about of child abuse.
Rosie Duffield MP (Canterbury, Independent)
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historic appointment. With this being the first woman to be appointed to this position. Rosie Duffield.
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Rosie Duffield. Thank you, Mr Speaker. It's my Honourable friends. Will know. It's been a really difficult year for the church. And
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difficult year for the church. And Canterbury Cathedral in particular with the death. Of our beloved. Dean emeritus, Robert Willis. The
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Dean emeritus, Robert Willis. The horrible circumstances surrounding the resignation of Archbishop about. An.
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An. Art exhibition. Which seems to have. Offended the vice.
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Offended the vice. President of America, among other people. Does she agree with me that the historic choice of Bishop Sarah
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the historic choice of Bishop Sarah Milani is the first. Ever woman appointed to the role could and should herald a new start could and should herald a new start for the church. And the writing of the historic wrongs that she speaks a lot about of child abuse.
10:31
Marsha De Cordova MP (Battersea, Labour)
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Marsha De Cordova MP (Battersea, Labour)
Why should it go over?
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Mr Speaker, my friend, absolutely makes some very, very good points there, and I thank her for her words there, and I thank her for her words and good wishes. She is a true champion for women's rights, but also for women in leadership. And I also want to place on record my congratulations to Bishop Sarah on congratulations to Bishop Sarah on making history. She has spent over 35 years in the NHS, becoming the 35 years in the NHS, becoming the youngest ever Chief Nursing Officer for England.
She was made a Dame
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for England. She was made a Dame 2005. For her contributions to. Nursing and midwifery. And I
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Nursing and midwifery. And I would also like to add, Mr Speaker, that Bishop Sarah served her accuracy at Saint Saviour's,
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Mr Speaker, my friend, absolutely makes some very, very good points there, and I thank her for her words there, and I thank her for her words and good wishes. She is a true champion for women's rights, but also for women in leadership. And I also want to place on record my congratulations to Bishop Sarah on congratulations to Bishop Sarah on making history. She has spent over 35 years in the NHS, becoming the 35 years in the NHS, becoming the youngest ever Chief Nursing Officer for England.
She was made a Dame
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for England. She was made a Dame 2005. For her contributions to. Nursing and midwifery. And I
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Nursing and midwifery. And I would also like to add, Mr Speaker, that Bishop Sarah served her accuracy at Saint Saviour's,
10:31
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Battersea Fields, in my constituency, Helena Dollimore. Mr Speaker, can I add my.
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Congratulations to the new Archbishop of Canterbury? As someone who wrote my thesis on the campaign for women's ordination in the Church for women's ordination in the Church of England. It is brilliant to see a woman go to that highest office for
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the first time, and I want to place on record. My thanks. To the women and men who. Campaigned for women's.
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Ordination in the first place. And will my honourable friend. Join me in celebrating the role that women are playing in the Church
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Congratulations to the new Archbishop of Canterbury? As someone who wrote my thesis on the campaign for women's ordination in the Church for women's ordination in the Church of England. It is brilliant to see a woman go to that highest office for
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the first time, and I want to place on record. My thanks. To the women and men who. Campaigned for women's.
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Ordination in the first place. And will my honourable friend. Join me in celebrating the role that women are playing in the Church
10:32
Marsha De Cordova MP (Battersea, Labour)
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that women are playing in the Church country? Marsha de Cordova Ma Noble friends makes a real important point and I think across this House we will all congratulate and celebrate all the women in leadership within our church. Indeed, Mr Speaker, just last night I was at the installation of the new rector for Saint Mary's at Battersea, a woman. So there we go. Mr Speaker, right.
Marsha De Cordova MP (Battersea, Labour)
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that women are playing in the Church country? Marsha de Cordova Ma Noble friends makes a real important point and I think across this House we will all congratulate and celebrate all the women in leadership within our church. Indeed, Mr Speaker, just last night I was at the installation of the new rector for Saint Mary's at Battersea, a woman. So there we go. Mr Speaker, right.
10:32
Urgent question: To ask the Prime Minister if he will make a statement on the three witness statements in relation to alleged breach of Official Secrets Act on behalf of China
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Urgent question: To ask the Prime Minister if he will make a statement on the three witness statements in relation to alleged breach of Official Secrets Act on behalf of China
That completes questions. We now
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come to the Urgent Question. Neil O'Brien. Speaker celesta.
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Chancellor. Of the Duchy of Lancaster. To make a statement on the three witness statements. In. Relation to.
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come to the Urgent Question. Neil O'Brien. Speaker celesta.
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Chancellor. Of the Duchy of Lancaster. To make a statement on the three witness statements. In. Relation to.
10:32
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Relation to. The alleged breach of. The Official Secrets Act on behalf of China. Minister.
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Minister. Thank you, Mr Speaker. I kind of thank my Honourable friends for the question and the opportunity to question and the opportunity to respond to it today. Can I start by saying I appreciate how serious and personal this is for the honourable
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member who, like other members of this House, is sanctioned by China and or named in the witness statement. Mr Speaker. Following.
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Following. The Security Minister's statement to the House. On Monday. The Prime Minister updated Parliament yesterday following the CPS clarification that the government was able to publish the witness statements of the Deputy National Security Adviser. As the National Security Adviser. As the Prime Minister said in the House, he carefully considered this matter and, following legal advice, decided
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to disclose the witness statements unredacted. And in full. I want to reiterate, Mr Speaker, as the Prime Minister said yesterday, that under this government, no minister or special adviser played any. Role in the adviser played any. Role in the provision of evidence. The Prime Minister cannot say if that is the but.
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I once again. Invite the party opposite. To clarify that I. Don't play politics having.
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Having now an opportunity to read these statements, members will have been able to confirm for themselves that the Prime Minister and other
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Relation to. The alleged breach of. The Official Secrets Act on behalf of China. Minister.
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Minister. Thank you, Mr Speaker. I kind of thank my Honourable friends for the question and the opportunity to question and the opportunity to respond to it today. Can I start by saying I appreciate how serious and personal this is for the honourable
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member who, like other members of this House, is sanctioned by China and or named in the witness statement. Mr Speaker. Following.
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Following. The Security Minister's statement to the House. On Monday. The Prime Minister updated Parliament yesterday following the CPS clarification that the government was able to publish the witness statements of the Deputy National Security Adviser. As the National Security Adviser. As the Prime Minister said in the House, he carefully considered this matter and, following legal advice, decided
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to disclose the witness statements unredacted. And in full. I want to reiterate, Mr Speaker, as the Prime Minister said yesterday, that under this government, no minister or special adviser played any. Role in the adviser played any. Role in the provision of evidence. The Prime Minister cannot say if that is the but.
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I once again. Invite the party opposite. To clarify that I. Don't play politics having.
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Having now an opportunity to read these statements, members will have been able to confirm for themselves that the Prime Minister and other
10:34
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wanting to catch my eye. This is not the best way to do that. Please, can we just show a little bit more respect, which I normally get from me? Minister.
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me? Minister. Thank you. Speaker. Have you now had the opportunity to read these statements? Members will be able to statements? Members will be able to confirm for themselves what the Prime Minister and other members of the government have stated repeatedly that the DSA, faithfully and with full integrity, set out the position of the previous UK government and the various threats posed by the Chinese state to the posed by the Chinese state to the UK, and that they did so in order to try to support a successful prosecution.
Mr Speaker, the first prosecution. Mr Speaker, the first and most substantive witness statement is from December 2023. Under the last government, the Under the last government, the second and third, both much shorter, are from February and August 25th respectively. It is clear from these respectively. It is clear from these statements that the substantive case and evidence submitted by the Dean of. The NSC does not change of. The NSC does not change materially throughout, and that all three documents clearly articulate the very serious threats posed by the very serious threats posed by China.
The second witness statement, in particular, highlights specific details on some of the cyber threats that we face and emphasises. China is, and I quote, the biggest state based threat to the UK's national based threat to the UK's national security. The third statement also goes on to state The Chinese intelligence are, and I quote, intelligence are, and I quote, highly capable and conduct large scale espionage operations against the UK to advance China's state the UK to advance China's state interests and harm the security of the UK.
Mr Speaker, it is clear from this evidence which all can now see, that the DNC took significant strides to articulate the threat from China in support of the prosecution. The decision to proceed as the Prime Minister made clear yesterday was taken purely by the yesterday was taken purely by the CPS. It is also clear that the three segments are constrained by the position of the Conservative position of the Conservative government on China at the time of the alleged offences. Mr Speaker, as the Security Minister said on Monday, and the.
Mr Speaker, as the Prime Minister said yesterday and the Security Minister on Monday, this government's first priority will always be national security and keeping this country safe. We wanted keeping this country safe. We wanted this case to proceed. I'm sure all members of the House did, and I know you did too. Mr Speaker, we are all profoundly disappointed it did not.
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me? Minister. Thank you. Speaker. Have you now had the opportunity to read these statements? Members will be able to statements? Members will be able to confirm for themselves what the Prime Minister and other members of the government have stated repeatedly that the DSA, faithfully and with full integrity, set out the position of the previous UK government and the various threats posed by the Chinese state to the posed by the Chinese state to the UK, and that they did so in order to try to support a successful prosecution.
Mr Speaker, the first prosecution. Mr Speaker, the first and most substantive witness statement is from December 2023. Under the last government, the Under the last government, the second and third, both much shorter, are from February and August 25th respectively. It is clear from these respectively. It is clear from these statements that the substantive case and evidence submitted by the Dean of. The NSC does not change of. The NSC does not change materially throughout, and that all three documents clearly articulate the very serious threats posed by the very serious threats posed by China.
The second witness statement, in particular, highlights specific details on some of the cyber threats that we face and emphasises. China is, and I quote, the biggest state based threat to the UK's national based threat to the UK's national security. The third statement also goes on to state The Chinese intelligence are, and I quote, intelligence are, and I quote, highly capable and conduct large scale espionage operations against the UK to advance China's state the UK to advance China's state interests and harm the security of the UK.
Mr Speaker, it is clear from this evidence which all can now see, that the DNC took significant strides to articulate the threat from China in support of the prosecution. The decision to proceed as the Prime Minister made clear yesterday was taken purely by the yesterday was taken purely by the CPS. It is also clear that the three segments are constrained by the position of the Conservative position of the Conservative government on China at the time of the alleged offences. Mr Speaker, as the Security Minister said on Monday, and the.
Mr Speaker, as the Prime Minister said yesterday and the Security Minister on Monday, this government's first priority will always be national security and keeping this country safe. We wanted keeping this country safe. We wanted this case to proceed. I'm sure all members of the House did, and I know you did too. Mr Speaker, we are all profoundly disappointed it did not.
10:36
Neil O'Brien MP (Harborough, Oadby and Wigston, Conservative)
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Neil O'Brien MP (Harborough, Oadby and Wigston, Conservative)
Neil O'Brien. interest, as I am named in the witness statements. And as someone sanctioned by China, I was shocked to learn that the Prime Minister knew that this case was about to collapse several days beforehand, but chose to do nothing. We now know that the CPS were not far short of what they needed. The DPP told MPs yesterday there was something like 5% short, but we don't know exactly what the CPS were asking for, what that 5% was.
We don't know why the government would not go that bit further when it was asked to. And that is what we need to hear from the minister today. Why didn't the government give the CPS what it was asking for? Nobody is disputing that. There's plenty of evidence. The witness statements are shocking. They tell us that China is conducting large scale espionage operations. Cash is said to have told bury in a message. You're in spy territory now. Yesterday, government sources briefed the Guardian that I quote civil service decided that decisions should be done independently of ministers.
No, no, no, Mr Speaker, the civil service does not get to decide anything. Ministers decide. The Prime Minister was not some helpless captive, unable to make sure that the CPS had what it needed. He knew and he decided not to help. Why? Let's come back to the evidence that was provided. The PM said yesterday that he was utterly constrained by the position of the previous government, and every expert had already contradicted the PM on this. But we can now see that the two witness statements from this year did state the position of the current Labour government, a direct contradiction of what the Prime Minister said yesterday.
And the evidence includes lines from Labour's manifesto. They weaken the case. It makes it less clear that China is a threat to our national security. That's one of the things that changed when the Sunday Times reported on a meeting convened by Jonathan Powell with the permanent Under-Secretary of the Foreign Office to discuss this case. And until yesterday, the government said that was just made up. But now they admit it happened, but they still won't come clean about what happened in that meeting or any other meeting.
In conclusion, Mr Speaker, this House needs to know what was asked for by the CPS, why it was refused, and we must see all the correspondence and the minutes. If they weren't published. The China files, people will ask, what has this government got to hide?
We don't know why the government would not go that bit further when it was asked to. And that is what we need to hear from the minister today. Why didn't the government give the CPS what it was asking for? Nobody is disputing that. There's plenty of evidence. The witness statements are shocking. They tell us that China is conducting large scale espionage operations. Cash is said to have told bury in a message. You're in spy territory now. Yesterday, government sources briefed the Guardian that I quote civil service decided that decisions should be done independently of ministers.
No, no, no, Mr Speaker, the civil service does not get to decide anything. Ministers decide. The Prime Minister was not some helpless captive, unable to make sure that the CPS had what it needed. He knew and he decided not to help. Why? Let's come back to the evidence that was provided. The PM said yesterday that he was utterly constrained by the position of the previous government, and every expert had already contradicted the PM on this. But we can now see that the two witness statements from this year did state the position of the current Labour government, a direct contradiction of what the Prime Minister said yesterday.
And the evidence includes lines from Labour's manifesto. They weaken the case. It makes it less clear that China is a threat to our national security. That's one of the things that changed when the Sunday Times reported on a meeting convened by Jonathan Powell with the permanent Under-Secretary of the Foreign Office to discuss this case. And until yesterday, the government said that was just made up. But now they admit it happened, but they still won't come clean about what happened in that meeting or any other meeting.
In conclusion, Mr Speaker, this House needs to know what was asked for by the CPS, why it was refused, and we must see all the correspondence and the minutes. If they weren't published. The China files, people will ask, what has this government got to hide?
10:38
Chris Ward MP, The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Brighton Kemptown and Peacehaven, Labour)
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Chris Ward MP, The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Brighton Kemptown and Peacehaven, Labour)
Here? I say, I do recognise how personal, how personally important this is to him and to many members of the House on this. In terms of transparency, I'd say the security Minister has given two statements in this House the Prime Minister gave, which I think we can all agree was a rather lengthy statement as well yesterday. And he has taken the pretty unusual process of publishing the evidence in full yesterday. So transparency is something the government is trying is the key point.
The minister, the Shadow Minister made was around why the Prime Minister or ministers didn't interfere or try and try. And as the Prime Minister made clear yesterday. As it's made clear tonight, this is a matter for this was a matter for the CPS independently and an important and an important principle of this government, and put that evidence was provided independently by the Deputy National security adviser. The Prime Minister made clear. So Speaker.
The minister, the Shadow Minister made was around why the Prime Minister or ministers didn't interfere or try and try. And as the Prime Minister made clear yesterday. As it's made clear tonight, this is a matter for this was a matter for the CPS independently and an important and an important principle of this government, and put that evidence was provided independently by the Deputy National security adviser. The Prime Minister made clear. So Speaker.
10:39
10:39
Chris Ward MP, The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Brighton Kemptown and Peacehaven, Labour)
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Chris Ward MP, The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Brighton Kemptown and Peacehaven, Labour)
This is a bit, I find slightly confusing about the opposition's approach, because on Monday, at a period in that statement, well, they accused the government of political interference in this, including former national security adviser. The Prime Minister's make absolutely clear that is completely untrue. On the other hand, they're also saying there should have been more police, there should have been political
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interference, and the Prime Minister should have directed or tried to help the CBSA. The Prime Minister made it very, very. Clear that is not.
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Clear that is not. The case. And that is not. And that the Prime Minister and the Prime Minister would not and no Prime Minister would not and no government would interfere with the CPS, which is a decision entirely for them to charge the three on the terms of the three, the evidence in terms of the three, the evidence in the three, the three statements put forward yesterday, there is clear consistency across and they all set out very, very serious threats that out very, very serious threats that China posed.
So they can anyone can think that isn't the case. And I think they are all well, it's provided independently by the deputy national security visit without interference from anyone else. They interference from anyone else. They are his words. That is his choice of what happens. And that is what's happened on there. And, Mr Speaker, happened on there. And, Mr Speaker, we've it. Mr Speaker, we've been through this several times on Monday, on yesterday and today. I'm Monday, on yesterday and today. I'm sure the Prime Minister has provided the evidence on this.
The evidence is there for ministers, the ministers members, to see. Ultimately, the decision was taken
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Ultimately, the decision was taken by the CPS to proceed. We are all disappointed in that. I thank. Dame Emily Thornberry, Chair of
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interference, and the Prime Minister should have directed or tried to help the CBSA. The Prime Minister made it very, very. Clear that is not.
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Clear that is not. The case. And that is not. And that the Prime Minister and the Prime Minister would not and no Prime Minister would not and no government would interfere with the CPS, which is a decision entirely for them to charge the three on the terms of the three, the evidence in terms of the three, the evidence in the three, the three statements put forward yesterday, there is clear consistency across and they all set out very, very serious threats that out very, very serious threats that China posed.
So they can anyone can think that isn't the case. And I think they are all well, it's provided independently by the deputy national security visit without interference from anyone else. They interference from anyone else. They are his words. That is his choice of what happens. And that is what's happened on there. And, Mr Speaker, happened on there. And, Mr Speaker, we've it. Mr Speaker, we've been through this several times on Monday, on yesterday and today. I'm Monday, on yesterday and today. I'm sure the Prime Minister has provided the evidence on this.
The evidence is there for ministers, the ministers members, to see. Ultimately, the decision was taken
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Ultimately, the decision was taken by the CPS to proceed. We are all disappointed in that. I thank. Dame Emily Thornberry, Chair of
10:41
Rt Hon Emily Thornberry MP (Islington South and Finsbury, Labour)
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Dame Emily Thornberry, Chair of Committee. Very much. Mr Speaker. It does seem to me that this the issue is this.
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this. Given that all of the. Deputy NSA's witness statements
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Deputy NSA's witness statements refer to China as a threat, I cannot understand why the CPS took the nuclear option of collapsing this
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case rather than leaving it to a jury. 20 years as a. Former criminal barrister has
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Former criminal barrister has given me. Absolute faith that the jury would have spent no time on how many angels can dance on. The top of.
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A pin, but would simply have looked at whether or not China was an enemy and would have found it very easy to decide that that's
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very easy to decide that that's exactly what they were, and then move on to. Whether or not the these men have been spying on behalf of China. It does seem to me that the decision should have been left to a jury. And
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does my honourable friend have any idea why on earth the CPS dropped the case? Mr. Kind of. Thank you for that.
Rt Hon Emily Thornberry MP (Islington South and Finsbury, Labour)
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Dame Emily Thornberry, Chair of Committee. Very much. Mr Speaker. It does seem to me that this the issue is this.
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this. Given that all of the. Deputy NSA's witness statements
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Deputy NSA's witness statements refer to China as a threat, I cannot understand why the CPS took the nuclear option of collapsing this
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case rather than leaving it to a jury. 20 years as a. Former criminal barrister has
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Former criminal barrister has given me. Absolute faith that the jury would have spent no time on how many angels can dance on. The top of.
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A pin, but would simply have looked at whether or not China was an enemy and would have found it very easy to decide that that's
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very easy to decide that that's exactly what they were, and then move on to. Whether or not the these men have been spying on behalf of China. It does seem to me that the decision should have been left to a jury. And
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does my honourable friend have any idea why on earth the CPS dropped the case? Mr. Kind of. Thank you for that.
10:41
Chris Ward MP, The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Brighton Kemptown and Peacehaven, Labour)
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Mr. Kind of. Thank you for that. As I say, this was a decision by the CPS independently, with no interference or involvement from the government on it, but members may or may not sympathise with that decision. It was a CPS decision and it's why it's important that the evidence is in the public domain now and that everyone can judge from that. Where how that proceeded. I should have said, just make one final point. Obviously, the CPS decision wasn't based purely on the evidence put forward by the DSA.
It was on much wider evidence collected over a much longer period. So that decision was taken by the CPS on a much broader evidential basis. It's where they proceeded on.
Chris Ward MP, The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Brighton Kemptown and Peacehaven, Labour)
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Mr. Kind of. Thank you for that. As I say, this was a decision by the CPS independently, with no interference or involvement from the government on it, but members may or may not sympathise with that decision. It was a CPS decision and it's why it's important that the evidence is in the public domain now and that everyone can judge from that. Where how that proceeded. I should have said, just make one final point. Obviously, the CPS decision wasn't based purely on the evidence put forward by the DSA.
It was on much wider evidence collected over a much longer period. So that decision was taken by the CPS on a much broader evidential basis. It's where they proceeded on.
10:42
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This.
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Jess Brown-Fuller Jess spokesperson. Thank you, Mr Speaker. Yesterday we. Saw finger pointing and gotcha
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Saw finger pointing and gotcha moments from both the government and the opposition benches during Prime Minister's Questions. But the Minister's Questions. But the release of the witness statements last night provide further questions for both sides, including what pressure was being applied to the
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pressure was being applied to the Right Honourable Member for Tonbridge and Malling and the honourable member for Rutland and Stamford from within. Their own.
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Their own. Party to dampen. Down. To dampen down their criticisms
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To dampen down their criticisms of China. This whole thing makes an absolute mockery of what is a serious collapse of a case and a
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Jess Brown-Fuller Jess spokesperson. Thank you, Mr Speaker. Yesterday we. Saw finger pointing and gotcha
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Saw finger pointing and gotcha moments from both the government and the opposition benches during Prime Minister's Questions. But the Minister's Questions. But the release of the witness statements last night provide further questions for both sides, including what pressure was being applied to the
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pressure was being applied to the Right Honourable Member for Tonbridge and Malling and the honourable member for Rutland and Stamford from within. Their own.
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Their own. Party to dampen. Down. To dampen down their criticisms
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To dampen down their criticisms of China. This whole thing makes an absolute mockery of what is a serious collapse of a case and a
10:42
Jess Brown-Fuller MP (Chichester, Liberal Democrat)
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Jess Brown-Fuller MP (Chichester, Liberal Democrat)
serious collapse of a case and a threat to our national security, a threat which is not going away but will only increase. So my question is, did the CPS tell the government in advance the case was at risk of collapsing? Did they ask the government to be more explicit in their wording, and if so, why wasn't the government more explicit? And will he commit today to a statutory independent inquiry, which would provide radical transparency and ensure that the right lessons are learned so that this doesn't happen again?
10:43
Chris Ward MP, The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Brighton Kemptown and Peacehaven, Labour)
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Chris Ward MP, The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Brighton Kemptown and Peacehaven, Labour)
Minister.
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Thank you very much. Thank you. Speaker. I can promise I will try and avoid all we've got all gotcha and avoid all we've got all gotcha moments and finger pointing on that on this moment, I assure you. Look on the on the question of when the on the on the question of when the CPS informed it. My understanding the Prime Minister made this clear yesterday, but my understanding was the Prime Minister was informed very the Prime Minister was informed very shortly before the case was against a couple of days ago.
But the point that is on the record that's that is on the record that's referred to the Prime Minister in terms of future inquiries, I'm sure this is an issue. I should have said to my right honourable friend that select committees will want to look at as well, and that will look at, and there is a normal process for
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Thank you very much. Thank you. Speaker. I can promise I will try and avoid all we've got all gotcha and avoid all we've got all gotcha moments and finger pointing on that on this moment, I assure you. Look on the on the question of when the on the on the question of when the CPS informed it. My understanding the Prime Minister made this clear yesterday, but my understanding was the Prime Minister was informed very the Prime Minister was informed very shortly before the case was against a couple of days ago.
But the point that is on the record that's that is on the record that's referred to the Prime Minister in terms of future inquiries, I'm sure this is an issue. I should have said to my right honourable friend that select committees will want to look at as well, and that will look at, and there is a normal process for
10:44
Matt Western MP (Warwick and Leamington, Labour)
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and there is a normal process for that. But I am unable to go beyond that today. Let's have the Chair of the JSC and assess Matt Western. Thank you,
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Mr Speaker. I'm pleased, obviously. That the government has published the witness statements last night.
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the witness statements last night. questions. Yet to be.
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Yet to be. Asked in terms of how this came that. May.
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May. Not have been shared, but other evidence that perhaps wasn't asked for the joint committee. We met this for the joint committee. We met this morning to discuss the situation, and we're going to hold a formal inquiry into the issue just.
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To remind. Members that committee comprises the Foreign Affairs.
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the Foreign Affairs. Chair, Home Office Chair, the justice subcommittee. Chair, as well.
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Chair, as well. So we are well. Covered for this. But really, I. Just want to ask the. Minister, we will be holding.
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This. Inquiry as soon as we possibly can. And will he give his commitments that we will have access
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commitments that we will have access to ministers and. Civil servants or. Whoever we wish to come before us?
Matt Western MP (Warwick and Leamington, Labour)
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and there is a normal process for that. But I am unable to go beyond that today. Let's have the Chair of the JSC and assess Matt Western. Thank you,
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Mr Speaker. I'm pleased, obviously. That the government has published the witness statements last night.
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the witness statements last night. questions. Yet to be.
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Yet to be. Asked in terms of how this came that. May.
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May. Not have been shared, but other evidence that perhaps wasn't asked for the joint committee. We met this for the joint committee. We met this morning to discuss the situation, and we're going to hold a formal inquiry into the issue just.
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To remind. Members that committee comprises the Foreign Affairs.
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the Foreign Affairs. Chair, Home Office Chair, the justice subcommittee. Chair, as well.
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Chair, as well. So we are well. Covered for this. But really, I. Just want to ask the. Minister, we will be holding.
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This. Inquiry as soon as we possibly can. And will he give his commitments that we will have access
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commitments that we will have access to ministers and. Civil servants or. Whoever we wish to come before us?
10:45
Chris Ward MP, The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Brighton Kemptown and Peacehaven, Labour)
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us? Yes, Minister. Thank you. And can I thank you for that question? As I say, parliamentary scrutiny and transparency. This is something that, despite the allegations we are trying to do with statements and publishing evidence, I'm sure going forward. So that's something we'll carry on as well. I'll come back to him on this precise mechanism of how we do that, but I'm sure people will be made available to his committee.
Chris Ward MP, The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Brighton Kemptown and Peacehaven, Labour)
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us? Yes, Minister. Thank you. And can I thank you for that question? As I say, parliamentary scrutiny and transparency. This is something that, despite the allegations we are trying to do with statements and publishing evidence, I'm sure going forward. So that's something we'll carry on as well. I'll come back to him on this precise mechanism of how we do that, but I'm sure people will be made available to his committee.
10:45
Rt Hon Sir Edward Leigh MP (Gainsborough, Conservative)
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Rt Hon Sir Edward Leigh MP (Gainsborough, Conservative)
That's far out of the House.
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Edward Leigh obviously. This is too important for party policy. It's a matter of national
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policy. It's a matter of national security against an existential. Threat from China. So the Prime Minister is quite clear. Yesterday he said that no. Minister would.
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Minister would. Ever apply pressure to the CPS, and I completely believe him. But I think that what would have to like to have clarity is there were no discussions. With of ministers, with civil servants and then subsequently civil servants and then subsequently discussions with civil servants, with the CPS. And we want to be absolutely clear, there was no ministerial involvement at all.
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Edward Leigh obviously. This is too important for party policy. It's a matter of national
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policy. It's a matter of national security against an existential. Threat from China. So the Prime Minister is quite clear. Yesterday he said that no. Minister would.
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Minister would. Ever apply pressure to the CPS, and I completely believe him. But I think that what would have to like to have clarity is there were no discussions. With of ministers, with civil servants and then subsequently civil servants and then subsequently discussions with civil servants, with the CPS. And we want to be absolutely clear, there was no ministerial involvement at all.
10:45
Derek Twigg MP (Widnes and Halewood, Labour)
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ministerial involvement at all. Minister. That's absolutely my understanding. It.
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It. But thank you, Mr Speaker. Mr Speaker, in the. In the.
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Mr Speaker, in the. In the. 4th of August. Statements. important.
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important. For me to. This. Oil stress. This is important. For me to emphasise.
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committed. To pursuing. A positive relationship. With China. To strengthen understanding, cooperation, stability.
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stability. Etc. Could ask the minister why did the. security. Adviser think that was a good
Derek Twigg MP (Widnes and Halewood, Labour)
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ministerial involvement at all. Minister. That's absolutely my understanding. It.
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It. But thank you, Mr Speaker. Mr Speaker, in the. In the.
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Mr Speaker, in the. In the. 4th of August. Statements. important.
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important. For me to. This. Oil stress. This is important. For me to emphasise.
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committed. To pursuing. A positive relationship. With China. To strengthen understanding, cooperation, stability.
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stability. Etc. Could ask the minister why did the. security. Adviser think that was a good
10:46
Chris Ward MP, The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Brighton Kemptown and Peacehaven, Labour)
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Adviser think that was a good Minister. Well, the deputy national security adviser is reflecting security adviser is reflecting government policy at the time and is reflecting they are his they are they are his they are his choice of words. It's his decision to include that. But actually if you look across the statement, I think if you look across the statements, there is broad consistency across them and there is and there is and there is no material difference on the policy relating to China, which is which has been pretty much shared across the despatch box.
the despatch box.
Chris Ward MP, The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Brighton Kemptown and Peacehaven, Labour)
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Adviser think that was a good Minister. Well, the deputy national security adviser is reflecting security adviser is reflecting government policy at the time and is reflecting they are his they are they are his they are his choice of words. It's his decision to include that. But actually if you look across the statement, I think if you look across the statements, there is broad consistency across them and there is and there is and there is no material difference on the policy relating to China, which is which has been pretty much shared across the despatch box.
the despatch box.
10:47
Rt Hon Sir Jeremy Wright KC MP (Kenilworth and Southam, Conservative)
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Rt Hon Sir Jeremy Wright KC MP (Kenilworth and Southam, Conservative)
So Jeremy Wright the speaker, it's now very clear that the Crown Prosecution Service asked the government more than once, over more
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than a year, for some additional evidence on what the CPS considered to be the crucial question. Of whether or not China
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Of whether or not China constituted a national security threat during the relevant period. It seems to me, having read those It seems to me, having read those statements, that there are two important questions, at least, that arise. The first is the one that's arise. The first is the one that's just been asked to him by his honourable friend. Given it was clear by that point when the Deputy clear by that point when the Deputy National Security Adviser made his second and third statements, that the question he was being asked to the question he was being asked to comment on was whether or not that bar of being a national security bar of being a national security threat was met or not.
What is the possible relevance of the inclusion of information about China as an economic opportunity? Surely the minister can see and the government minister can see and the government can see that that only weakens the substance of the question that that particular witness was being asked to answer. And it would be useful to understand whether the DNC came to understand whether the DNC came to that view on his own or whether he it was suggested to him that that would be a useful thing to include.
The second question, I think, is this the government's been very clear. The Minister has been very clear today. The Prime Minister was very clear yesterday how disappointed the government is at the outcome of this trial and how much the government wanted this prosecution to proceed, given the length of time and the number of requests received by the CPS, surely it would be logical to assume the
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government would be straining every. Sinew to find extra evidence to meet the CPS requirement, whether meet the CPS requirement, whether it. Thought the CPS was right to ask for it or not. It was clear that with that extra evidence, the CPS with that extra evidence, the CPS would proceed with the case as the government says it wanted. What evidence can the government provide evidence can the government provide to us that every sinew was strained, and that the government did everything it could do to find that evidence? And if that evidence is in fact available and others could find
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than a year, for some additional evidence on what the CPS considered to be the crucial question. Of whether or not China
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Of whether or not China constituted a national security threat during the relevant period. It seems to me, having read those It seems to me, having read those statements, that there are two important questions, at least, that arise. The first is the one that's arise. The first is the one that's just been asked to him by his honourable friend. Given it was clear by that point when the Deputy clear by that point when the Deputy National Security Adviser made his second and third statements, that the question he was being asked to the question he was being asked to comment on was whether or not that bar of being a national security bar of being a national security threat was met or not.
What is the possible relevance of the inclusion of information about China as an economic opportunity? Surely the minister can see and the government minister can see and the government can see that that only weakens the substance of the question that that particular witness was being asked to answer. And it would be useful to understand whether the DNC came to understand whether the DNC came to that view on his own or whether he it was suggested to him that that would be a useful thing to include.
The second question, I think, is this the government's been very clear. The Minister has been very clear today. The Prime Minister was very clear yesterday how disappointed the government is at the outcome of this trial and how much the government wanted this prosecution to proceed, given the length of time and the number of requests received by the CPS, surely it would be logical to assume the
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government would be straining every. Sinew to find extra evidence to meet the CPS requirement, whether meet the CPS requirement, whether it. Thought the CPS was right to ask for it or not. It was clear that with that extra evidence, the CPS with that extra evidence, the CPS would proceed with the case as the government says it wanted. What evidence can the government provide evidence can the government provide to us that every sinew was strained, and that the government did everything it could do to find that evidence? And if that evidence is in fact available and others could find
10:49
Chris Ward MP, The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Brighton Kemptown and Peacehaven, Labour)
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fact available and others could find it, won't the government have some explaining to do? Yeah. Thank you. Can I thank you for that. Thank
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Can I thank you for that. Thank you for the question and the tone of it on on the first point about it on on the first point about sorry. Sorry on the, on the same question of can you just remind me. figure.
Chris Ward MP, The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Brighton Kemptown and Peacehaven, Labour)
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fact available and others could find it, won't the government have some explaining to do? Yeah. Thank you. Can I thank you for that. Thank
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Can I thank you for that. Thank you for the question and the tone of it on on the first point about it on on the first point about sorry. Sorry on the, on the same question of can you just remind me. figure.
10:49
10:49
Chris Ward MP, The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Brighton Kemptown and Peacehaven, Labour)
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Chris Ward MP, The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Brighton Kemptown and Peacehaven, Labour)
Sorry, sorry. Thank you for that. The point I was going to make is on that is that that is to provide broader context of the position of the government at the time in relation to position on China. But it is, it is not, but it is an independent decision. It is it is a decision taken freely without interference from ministers or advisers for the DSA to do that, I can't. That's not my position to counter. That's his decision. And that was the evidence submitted under under consecutive governments on that.
So that's all I can add to that, I'm afraid.
So that's all I can add to that, I'm afraid.
10:50
Barry Gardiner MP (Brent West, Labour)
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Barry Gardiner MP (Brent West, Labour)
Sir.
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Barry Gardiner. Could. I take the minister back to the could I take the minister back to could I take the minister back to the wording of the act? The act says it's an offence to pass information it's an offence to pass information that would be directly or indirectly useful to an enemy. It does not say useful to an enemy. It does not say that it is an offence to directly or indirectly pass to an enemy. indirectly pass to an enemy.
Information that would be useful. The difference is that in the first, it's the usefulness of the it's the usefulness of the information that constitutes the offence. You might be passing it to offence. You might be passing it to any unauthorised person in the second. It is the passing of it to an enemy that constitutes the an enemy that constitutes the offence. By using the second interpretation, it is therefore interpretation, it is therefore possible to argue that unless the person the information was passed to was an enemy, then no offence was was an enemy, then no offence was committed, and that would seem to me how the two men.
Had the case how the two men. Had the case dropped. In fact, by passing it to a person not authorised to receive it, person not authorised to receive it, friend or foe, they had allowed it to circulate outside of the UK government's control, where it could government's control, where it could then be obtained and used by an enemy. Surely this is what the act sought to criminalise. And if the Minister agrees, is he satisfied that the wording of the act is as it should be? Or does he think that the prosecution was dropped erroneously?
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Barry Gardiner. Could. I take the minister back to the could I take the minister back to could I take the minister back to the wording of the act? The act says it's an offence to pass information it's an offence to pass information that would be directly or indirectly useful to an enemy. It does not say useful to an enemy. It does not say that it is an offence to directly or indirectly pass to an enemy. indirectly pass to an enemy.
Information that would be useful. The difference is that in the first, it's the usefulness of the it's the usefulness of the information that constitutes the offence. You might be passing it to offence. You might be passing it to any unauthorised person in the second. It is the passing of it to an enemy that constitutes the an enemy that constitutes the offence. By using the second interpretation, it is therefore interpretation, it is therefore possible to argue that unless the person the information was passed to was an enemy, then no offence was was an enemy, then no offence was committed, and that would seem to me how the two men.
Had the case how the two men. Had the case dropped. In fact, by passing it to a person not authorised to receive it, person not authorised to receive it, friend or foe, they had allowed it to circulate outside of the UK government's control, where it could government's control, where it could then be obtained and used by an enemy. Surely this is what the act sought to criminalise. And if the Minister agrees, is he satisfied that the wording of the act is as it should be? Or does he think that the prosecution was dropped erroneously?
10:51
10:51
Luke Taylor MP (Sutton and Cheam, Liberal Democrat)
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Luke Taylor MP (Sutton and Cheam, Liberal Democrat)
Thank you, Mr Speaker. I'd like China's. to this. We currently have the application for the super embassy on the government's desk. And as the Minister says and has been acknowledged, China is a threat and actively working to undermine our national security, the Right Honourable member for Streatham and Croydon North said that the government would never compromise
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government. Give any consideration to
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Give any consideration to approving the Chinese super embassy, which will give extraordinary which will give extraordinary capability to China to continue to expand its it's espionage activities, but also to target Hong
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government. Give any consideration to
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Give any consideration to approving the Chinese super embassy, which will give extraordinary which will give extraordinary capability to China to continue to expand its it's espionage activities, but also to target Hong
10:52
Chris Ward MP, The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Brighton Kemptown and Peacehaven, Labour)
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activities, but also to target Hong Kongers on British soil with their transnational repression? Can I thank you for the question
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Can I thank you for the question on on the Chinese embassy. This decision, as he says, has been taken by the Communities and Local Government Minister. It will be taken in due course. It is completely unrelated to this case and is completely unrelated to anything in it. And that is an Jones.
Chris Ward MP, The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Brighton Kemptown and Peacehaven, Labour)
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activities, but also to target Hong Kongers on British soil with their transnational repression? Can I thank you for the question
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Can I thank you for the question on on the Chinese embassy. This decision, as he says, has been taken by the Communities and Local Government Minister. It will be taken in due course. It is completely unrelated to this case and is completely unrelated to anything in it. And that is an Jones.
10:52
Ruth Cadbury MP (Brentford and Isleworth, Labour)
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Ruth Cadbury MP (Brentford and Isleworth, Labour)
Thank you, Mr Speaker, and I thank the Minister for his responses so far on this important matter. Can I draw his attention to sub paragraph D of paragraph 21 of the Deputy National Security Advisers initial witness statement, and in it he references Newport wafer fab as it was then called in 2023. Does the Minister share my concerns that this wafer fab sale could have been adversely affected by this leak of private information, thus jeopardising the livelihoods of good people? In my constituency of Newport Western Iselin? And what can he say to reassure me and others that this cannot happen again?
10:53
10:53
Rt Hon Tom Tugendhat MP (Tonbridge, Conservative)
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Rt Hon Tom Tugendhat MP (Tonbridge, Conservative)
Today.
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Two of them though. May I say thank you very much and I apologise for earlier outburst. But.
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Two of them though. May I say thank you very much and I apologise for earlier outburst. But.
10:53
Mr Speaker
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Mayor. May I. Just place on the.
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Sorry not the position on did any of Barcelona help of enough from this. I don't want it starting over here as well. I think in fairness we
Mr Speaker
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Mayor. May I. Just place on the.
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Sorry not the position on did any of Barcelona help of enough from this. I don't want it starting over here as well. I think in fairness we
10:53
Rt Hon Tom Tugendhat MP (Tonbridge, Conservative)
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Rt Hon Tom Tugendhat MP (Tonbridge, Conservative)
here as well. I think in fairness we will take it. There was an apology Tugendhat.
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Tugendhat. May I start, Mr Speaker, by saying very briefly quite how this feels. My home has been broken into, feels. My home has been broken into, my files have been ransacked. Somebody has been put in my office by a hostile state, and two parties by a hostile state, and two parties are playing politics with it. This is national security of the United Kingdom. The elected people of Kingdom. The elected people of Tonbridge chose me. They may have chosen wrong, but they did.
The elected people of other parts of the United Kingdom chose everybody else United Kingdom chose everybody else in this House. It is up to them to choose who represents them. And yet choose who represents them. And yet here we have two individuals seeking to extract information from us, and to extract information from us, and the government's response is. Not as mine was. Do everything you can to make sure the prosecution works. But make sure the prosecution works. But no, no process. Process. Well, who the hell side are you on? This isn't the hell side are you on? This isn't about the bureaucracy.
This is about leadership. We're not sent here to be civil servants.
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We're sent here to lead the country and to make decisions. And instead, and I feel nothing but. Fondness for. The.
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The. Minister in his place. And I'm very sorry that he's been sent out on his not quite first outing, but pretty close. It is it.
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It is it. On his first outing to defend the indefensible, because what he's got
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indefensible, because what he's got the position of doing now is to effectively say that he's not a politician, he's a bureaucrat. There's nothing he can do. And
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There's nothing he can do. And frankly, he shouldn't even be here in the first place, because that seems to be the prime Minister's seems to be the prime Minister's line. Former attorneys general have got up and they have prosecuted on the state's behalf. This Attorney General and this Prime Minister have
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Tugendhat. May I start, Mr Speaker, by saying very briefly quite how this feels. My home has been broken into, feels. My home has been broken into, my files have been ransacked. Somebody has been put in my office by a hostile state, and two parties by a hostile state, and two parties are playing politics with it. This is national security of the United Kingdom. The elected people of Kingdom. The elected people of Tonbridge chose me. They may have chosen wrong, but they did.
The elected people of other parts of the United Kingdom chose everybody else United Kingdom chose everybody else in this House. It is up to them to choose who represents them. And yet choose who represents them. And yet here we have two individuals seeking to extract information from us, and to extract information from us, and the government's response is. Not as mine was. Do everything you can to make sure the prosecution works. But make sure the prosecution works. But no, no process. Process. Well, who the hell side are you on? This isn't the hell side are you on? This isn't about the bureaucracy.
This is about leadership. We're not sent here to be civil servants.
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We're sent here to lead the country and to make decisions. And instead, and I feel nothing but. Fondness for. The.
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The. Minister in his place. And I'm very sorry that he's been sent out on his not quite first outing, but pretty close. It is it.
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It is it. On his first outing to defend the indefensible, because what he's got
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indefensible, because what he's got the position of doing now is to effectively say that he's not a politician, he's a bureaucrat. There's nothing he can do. And
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There's nothing he can do. And frankly, he shouldn't even be here in the first place, because that seems to be the prime Minister's seems to be the prime Minister's line. Former attorneys general have got up and they have prosecuted on the state's behalf. This Attorney General and this Prime Minister have
10:55
Chris Ward MP, The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Brighton Kemptown and Peacehaven, Labour)
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said, not on my watch. Not worth the effort here. I'm of thank you for that and just say I have huge respect for just say I have huge respect for him, even if that evidently isn't mutual at the moment. But let's let's let let let's see if we can get that place. The Prime Minister answer to question yesterday, I can see, I know I do. I do fully appreciate how personally how personally this affects him. And I personally affects his constituency and indeed his office as well.
I do understand that I'm genuinely not trying to play politics in this. I'm genuinely trying to tell you he's always right, but I'm genuine, not I'm genuine. Trying to tell the story of this, of how this has progressed. And to reiterate from the despatch box the point the Prime Minister made yesterday, the security Minister made on Monday that the government's position on the successive governments, with the government's fish in particular in this province, there will be no interference with the CPS in the process of this and that every effort was made to try and deliver evidence in the way to support their Swallow.
Chris Ward MP, The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Brighton Kemptown and Peacehaven, Labour)
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said, not on my watch. Not worth the effort here. I'm of thank you for that and just say I have huge respect for just say I have huge respect for him, even if that evidently isn't mutual at the moment. But let's let's let let let's see if we can get that place. The Prime Minister answer to question yesterday, I can see, I know I do. I do fully appreciate how personally how personally this affects him. And I personally affects his constituency and indeed his office as well.
I do understand that I'm genuinely not trying to play politics in this. I'm genuinely trying to tell you he's always right, but I'm genuine, not I'm genuine. Trying to tell the story of this, of how this has progressed. And to reiterate from the despatch box the point the Prime Minister made yesterday, the security Minister made on Monday that the government's position on the successive governments, with the government's fish in particular in this province, there will be no interference with the CPS in the process of this and that every effort was made to try and deliver evidence in the way to support their Swallow.
10:56
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Thank you, Mr Speaker. As the honourable member for Tom Ridge emphasises so, so emphatically, I think. Across the whole House we're appalled at the actions of the Chinese state. But I just want to
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take it. Back to. The precise law under which these charges were brought, an.
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take it. Back to. The precise law under which these charges were brought, an.
10:56
Peter Swallow MP (Bracknell, Labour)
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charges were brought, an. Act that was first. Introduced in 1911 and which the Conservative Party set out.
Peter Swallow MP (Bracknell, Labour)
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charges were brought, an. Act that was first. Introduced in 1911 and which the Conservative Party set out.
10:56
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To review. When they were in government in 2015, but did not successfully
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To review. When they were in government in 2015, but did not successfully
10:56
10:57
Chris Ward MP, The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Brighton Kemptown and Peacehaven, Labour)
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Chris Ward MP, The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Brighton Kemptown and Peacehaven, Labour)
this how did the conservatives got on with the job and replace that law quicker? Would we be in a different position now?
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Can I think of that question? He invites me to play party politics, and I've promised several times I'm and I've promised several times I'm not going to do that factually. It is true, though, that if the Espionage Act had been updated more Espionage Act had been updated more quickly and that the current act of been in place at the time of this, the case would have been able to
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Can I think of that question? He invites me to play party politics, and I've promised several times I'm and I've promised several times I'm not going to do that factually. It is true, though, that if the Espionage Act had been updated more Espionage Act had been updated more quickly and that the current act of been in place at the time of this, the case would have been able to
10:57
Stephen Gethins MP (Arbroath and Broughty Ferry, Scottish National Party)
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Stephen Gethins MP (Arbroath and Broughty Ferry, Scottish National Party)
the case would have been able to proceed. That is that is the case. I that is the case decisions have taken not to do that. I think that is greatly regrettable.
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Stephen Gethins. Thank you. Mr Speaker. And, Mr Speaker, I'll welcome the Minister to his place.
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In his first outing. I have to say, I think the Prime. Minister owes him a favour. He'll understand the need for
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He'll understand the need for absolute clarity. And I know he says that. But given the serious threat that he's said that China poses to us, can he be absolutely clear on two issues? One is that there was no ministerial involvement whatsoever in pulling this case, and two, that in pulling this case, and two, that the government provided all evidence that was asked for. I am afraid just
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Stephen Gethins. Thank you. Mr Speaker. And, Mr Speaker, I'll welcome the Minister to his place.
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In his first outing. I have to say, I think the Prime. Minister owes him a favour. He'll understand the need for
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He'll understand the need for absolute clarity. And I know he says that. But given the serious threat that he's said that China poses to us, can he be absolutely clear on two issues? One is that there was no ministerial involvement whatsoever in pulling this case, and two, that in pulling this case, and two, that the government provided all evidence that was asked for. I am afraid just
10:58
10:58
Sir Bernard Jenkin MP (Harwich and North Essex, Conservative)
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Sir Bernard Jenkin MP (Harwich and North Essex, Conservative)
The answer is yes to both cases. Thank you, Mr Speaker.
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Security. Advisor is a. Civil servant and therefore accountable.
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accountable. Who was holding. Him to account for the job that he was doing, may I just emphasise he was doing, may I just emphasise that I'm sure he was. Doing his level and honourable best in the circumstances in which he found circumstances in which he found himself, but it is really beyond belief that, as it became apparent
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belief that, as it became apparent from the third inquiry, where the director of. The Director. Of Public Prosecutions was asking
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Of Public Prosecutions was asking for a clear statement that China was a national security threat, that
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a national security threat, that nobody was capable of telling him, well, actually. You better say that. You better say that.
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say that. And the idea that he was. Somehow beyond any influence from anybody is beyond any influence from anybody is laughable. One can only conclude that this conspiracy of omission was
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Security. Advisor is a. Civil servant and therefore accountable.
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accountable. Who was holding. Him to account for the job that he was doing, may I just emphasise he was doing, may I just emphasise that I'm sure he was. Doing his level and honourable best in the circumstances in which he found circumstances in which he found himself, but it is really beyond belief that, as it became apparent
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belief that, as it became apparent from the third inquiry, where the director of. The Director. Of Public Prosecutions was asking
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Of Public Prosecutions was asking for a clear statement that China was a national security threat, that
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a national security threat, that nobody was capable of telling him, well, actually. You better say that. You better say that.
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say that. And the idea that he was. Somehow beyond any influence from anybody is beyond any influence from anybody is laughable. One can only conclude that this conspiracy of omission was
10:59
Chris Ward MP, The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Brighton Kemptown and Peacehaven, Labour)
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Chris Ward MP, The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Brighton Kemptown and Peacehaven, Labour)
something the government wanted, because they didn't want this trial to go ahead.
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No, that's that's really not the case. That's not the case. Firstly, on the on the DSA, who as people have worked with or knows of is of have worked with or knows of is of the highest calibre and integrity on this matter. He presented evidence under successive governments on this under successive governments on this and devoid of any influence, as I say, from advisors or government on this side, I cannot say if that is this side, I cannot say if that is the case on the other side, but I'm sure that is the case.
But he presented that evidence freely, and
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No, that's that's really not the case. That's not the case. Firstly, on the on the DSA, who as people have worked with or knows of is of have worked with or knows of is of the highest calibre and integrity on this matter. He presented evidence under successive governments on this under successive governments on this and devoid of any influence, as I say, from advisors or government on this side, I cannot say if that is this side, I cannot say if that is the case on the other side, but I'm sure that is the case.
But he presented that evidence freely, and
10:59
Richard Foord MP (Honiton and Sidmouth, Liberal Democrat)
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presented that evidence freely, and he presented that to the best of his governments. Richard Foord thank you, Mr Speaker. Leaders should. Delegate responsibility, but not accountability. The argument is that Prime Minister's Questions yesterday revolved around whether a minister or a special adviser had influenced the collapse of the case, and it was established that neither ministers nor special advisers had involvement in the provision of evidence. But does the Minister think it would have been worth ministers? Reflecting on the Intelligence and Security Committee's 2023 China report and requesting sight of the witness statements provided by the senior civil servant before they were submitted.
In essence, has the government sought to delegate to a civil servant responsibility and accountability?
Richard Foord MP (Honiton and Sidmouth, Liberal Democrat)
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presented that evidence freely, and he presented that to the best of his governments. Richard Foord thank you, Mr Speaker. Leaders should. Delegate responsibility, but not accountability. The argument is that Prime Minister's Questions yesterday revolved around whether a minister or a special adviser had influenced the collapse of the case, and it was established that neither ministers nor special advisers had involvement in the provision of evidence. But does the Minister think it would have been worth ministers? Reflecting on the Intelligence and Security Committee's 2023 China report and requesting sight of the witness statements provided by the senior civil servant before they were submitted.
In essence, has the government sought to delegate to a civil servant responsibility and accountability?
11:00
Chris Ward MP, The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Brighton Kemptown and Peacehaven, Labour)
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Chris Ward MP, The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Brighton Kemptown and Peacehaven, Labour)
Yes and no. And it's not the government's position. It's not the government's position. It is not the government system. Lots of government, successive positions for the government to vet witness statements made in cases like this. And I think I correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that's what you're asking. So it's not that. But look across the three bits across the three witness segments. It's very clear. The DCI makes several times, sets out the very serious threats that China poses.
He sets them out 15 or 20 times. I don't know the exact number consistently across it. The decision not to prosecute on the basis of that is then taken by the CPS.
He sets them out 15 or 20 times. I don't know the exact number consistently across it. The decision not to prosecute on the basis of that is then taken by the CPS.
11:00
Nick Timothy MP (West Suffolk, Conservative)
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Nick Timothy MP (West Suffolk, Conservative)
Nick Timothy. answer just now, saying that it's not the government's job, so it's not minister's jobs to vet witness.
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Statements when they're made on behalf of the government. This is exactly the point. They are accountable. The Prime.
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They are accountable. The Prime. Minister says that that the evidence that was relevant to the case was the last government's China policy.
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But the. Statements published last night showed that they were changed. To reflect. This. Government's China policy. This
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Government's China policy. This is not the only way in which the Prime Minister's. Story has fallen apart. But on this specific point.
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this specific point. What the Prime Minister told the House wasn't correct, was it?
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House wasn't correct, was it? It was. There was no it was, there was no it was there was no political interference from this political interference from this government under any of those statements that were made. There was not. And it doesn't matter how many
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not. And it doesn't matter how many times the honourable members allege that is the case. Richard Tice. Thank you. Mr Speaker. Amongst all the noise
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Mr Speaker. Amongst all the noise of this China spy scandal, my constituents in Boston and Skegness, I think the. Whole British.
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Statements when they're made on behalf of the government. This is exactly the point. They are accountable. The Prime.
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They are accountable. The Prime. Minister says that that the evidence that was relevant to the case was the last government's China policy.
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But the. Statements published last night showed that they were changed. To reflect. This. Government's China policy. This
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Government's China policy. This is not the only way in which the Prime Minister's. Story has fallen apart. But on this specific point.
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this specific point. What the Prime Minister told the House wasn't correct, was it?
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House wasn't correct, was it? It was. There was no it was, there was no it was there was no political interference from this political interference from this government under any of those statements that were made. There was not. And it doesn't matter how many
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not. And it doesn't matter how many times the honourable members allege that is the case. Richard Tice. Thank you. Mr Speaker. Amongst all the noise
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Mr Speaker. Amongst all the noise of this China spy scandal, my constituents in Boston and Skegness, I think the. Whole British.
11:02
Chris Ward MP, The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Brighton Kemptown and Peacehaven, Labour)
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Whole British. People want some. Clarity from. This government. Does the government. View China. As a national.
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Security threat? Yes or no, sir? The evidence in the evidence,
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The evidence in the evidence, throughout, the evidence throughout sets out the threats China poses multiple times. There is complete
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consistency between the two. Obviously, there are very serious threats. I read them out in my side. Yes, doctor.
Chris Ward MP, The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Brighton Kemptown and Peacehaven, Labour)
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Whole British. People want some. Clarity from. This government. Does the government. View China. As a national.
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Security threat? Yes or no, sir? The evidence in the evidence,
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The evidence in the evidence, throughout, the evidence throughout sets out the threats China poses multiple times. There is complete
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consistency between the two. Obviously, there are very serious threats. I read them out in my side. Yes, doctor.
11:02
Rt Hon Dr Andrew Murrison MP (South West Wiltshire, Conservative)
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Rt Hon Dr Andrew Murrison MP (South West Wiltshire, Conservative)
Thank you, Mr Speaker, the Deputy. National Security Advisor in his evidence is clear.
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China is the. Greatest state. Economic threat.
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To the UK. But does the Minister. Agree with that? And is he.
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And is he. Seriously trying to. Suggest that the. Deputy National Security Advisor, given what he has said in.
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Advisor, given what he has said in. His evidence, didn't. Clear what he was doing with the
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China is the. Greatest state. Economic threat.
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To the UK. But does the Minister. Agree with that? And is he.
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And is he. Seriously trying to. Suggest that the. Deputy National Security Advisor, given what he has said in.
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Advisor, given what he has said in. His evidence, didn't. Clear what he was doing with the
11:02
11:02
Claire Young MP (Thornbury and Yate, Liberal Democrat)
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Yes. So exactly what I'm saying, and the Prime Minister said yesterday and the security minister said on Monday. Claire Young.
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Claire Young. Thank you, Mr Speaker. Notwithstanding the decision to drop this case, it's clear that China is trying to undermine our democracy. trying to undermine our democracy. Will the government include all Chinese officials, Hong Kong Special Administrative Region officials and Chinese Communist Party linked organisations on the Enhanced the scheme?
Claire Young MP (Thornbury and Yate, Liberal Democrat)
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Yes. So exactly what I'm saying, and the Prime Minister said yesterday and the security minister said on Monday. Claire Young.
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Claire Young. Thank you, Mr Speaker. Notwithstanding the decision to drop this case, it's clear that China is trying to undermine our democracy. trying to undermine our democracy. Will the government include all Chinese officials, Hong Kong Special Administrative Region officials and Chinese Communist Party linked organisations on the Enhanced the scheme?
11:03
11:03
James Wild MP (North West Norfolk, Conservative)
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afraid that isn't. I'm afraid that isn't that I'm not across the specific of that in my brief. I'll come back to. One James Wild.
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Thank you very much, Mr Speaker. The Minister knows the Prime Minister well, having been one of his close advisers, as well as his
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his close advisers, as well as his parliamentary private secretary. So why did. The. Prime Minister. When he learned a major trial concerning spying or members. Of this place.
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Of this place. Was going to collapse, do nothing. Why didn't he ask if anything could be done to stop the. anything could be done to stop the. Trial collapsing? Is that what he actually wanted to happen? And if not. Why didn't he act?
James Wild MP (North West Norfolk, Conservative)
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afraid that isn't. I'm afraid that isn't that I'm not across the specific of that in my brief. I'll come back to. One James Wild.
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Thank you very much, Mr Speaker. The Minister knows the Prime Minister well, having been one of his close advisers, as well as his
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his close advisers, as well as his parliamentary private secretary. So why did. The. Prime Minister. When he learned a major trial concerning spying or members. Of this place.
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Of this place. Was going to collapse, do nothing. Why didn't he ask if anything could be done to stop the. anything could be done to stop the. Trial collapsing? Is that what he actually wanted to happen? And if not. Why didn't he act?
11:03
Chris Ward MP, The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Brighton Kemptown and Peacehaven, Labour)
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Chris Ward MP, The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Brighton Kemptown and Peacehaven, Labour)
No, no. As I said many times, the government wanted the trial to proceed and allowed every opportunity at the prosecution to opportunity for evidence to be provided for it and for the C.p.s. To gather that the Prime Minister has already stated, when he was informed that the trial, that the trial was at that process. But the Prime Minister, as he said yesterday in response to my Honourable friend make clear, is not the Prime Minister's position to interfere or to or to interfere in that place with it.
And that is what the case was then was then dropped by the C.p.s. Independently firm.
And that is what the case was then was then dropped by the C.p.s. Independently firm.
11:04
Rt Hon Graham Stuart MP (Beverley and Holderness, Conservative)
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Rt Hon Graham Stuart MP (Beverley and Holderness, Conservative)
Stewart.
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Has independence from ministers. Civil servants do not. So the whole Civil servants do not. So the whole point of our Constitution is that civil servants can never be held, thrown out and put out under the bus thrown out and put out under the bus because ministers are responsible. They own everything the civil servants do. There is no carve out servants do. There is no carve out because you've got this Thai title of being a national security adviser. They're a civil servant. And it wasn't once, Mr Speaker.
It And it wasn't once, Mr Speaker. It was repeatedly. It was an iterative process by which the CPS asked for process by which the CPS asked for and said, there is a gap. What is it, and can he please stop trying to it, and can he please stop trying to make out? Although we have a different constitution to one we have, in which he suggests that somehow ministers aren't responsible
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Has independence from ministers. Civil servants do not. So the whole Civil servants do not. So the whole point of our Constitution is that civil servants can never be held, thrown out and put out under the bus thrown out and put out under the bus because ministers are responsible. They own everything the civil servants do. There is no carve out servants do. There is no carve out because you've got this Thai title of being a national security adviser. They're a civil servant. And it wasn't once, Mr Speaker.
It And it wasn't once, Mr Speaker. It was repeatedly. It was an iterative process by which the CPS asked for process by which the CPS asked for and said, there is a gap. What is it, and can he please stop trying to it, and can he please stop trying to make out? Although we have a different constitution to one we have, in which he suggests that somehow ministers aren't responsible
11:05
Chris Ward MP, The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Brighton Kemptown and Peacehaven, Labour)
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Chris Ward MP, The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Brighton Kemptown and Peacehaven, Labour)
somehow ministers aren't responsible for the behaviour of their civil servants. When there is the foundation of accountability within our parliamentary system.
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Just I just referring back to what I've said already, it is not the place under this government or previously for ministers to be
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Just I just referring back to what I've said already, it is not the place under this government or previously for ministers to be
11:05
Dr Kieran Mullan MP (Bexhill and Battle, Conservative)
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Dr Kieran Mullan MP (Bexhill and Battle, Conservative)
previously for ministers to be vetting process or to interfering in evidence on that matter.
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Kieran Mullan. Well, therefore. China is not just. An economic, an economic one. It's also a battle of.
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Ideas about. How the. State should operate. And the fact that. This case is collapsed is.
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This case is collapsed is. Making a complete mockery of our arguments on how the state should operate compared to how China does things. And can I suggest to the things. And can I suggest to the minister that, along with the Prime Minister, he's in danger of inadvertently misleading the House? He's been asked a number of times He's been asked a number of times now about the content of the statement in relation to the Conservative Party position at the time, and insisted that the time, and insisted that the statements made only reflected the position of the Conservative government at the time.
Can the minister then explain why it is that the exact wording in relation to China and its role in the Labour Party manifesto ended up in that statement?
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Kieran Mullan. Well, therefore. China is not just. An economic, an economic one. It's also a battle of.
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Ideas about. How the. State should operate. And the fact that. This case is collapsed is.
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This case is collapsed is. Making a complete mockery of our arguments on how the state should operate compared to how China does things. And can I suggest to the things. And can I suggest to the minister that, along with the Prime Minister, he's in danger of inadvertently misleading the House? He's been asked a number of times He's been asked a number of times now about the content of the statement in relation to the Conservative Party position at the time, and insisted that the time, and insisted that the statements made only reflected the position of the Conservative government at the time.
Can the minister then explain why it is that the exact wording in relation to China and its role in the Labour Party manifesto ended up in that statement?
11:06
Chris Ward MP, The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Brighton Kemptown and Peacehaven, Labour)
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statement? Very good exact work. The wording in that statement is put in there to provide wider put in there to provide wider context of the situation there. But as I said, as I've said many times,
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and I'll keep saying that wording is provided independently by the disallow tonight without any involvement from ministers or political advisers. Well.
Chris Ward MP, The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Brighton Kemptown and Peacehaven, Labour)
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statement? Very good exact work. The wording in that statement is put in there to provide wider put in there to provide wider context of the situation there. But as I said, as I've said many times,
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and I'll keep saying that wording is provided independently by the disallow tonight without any involvement from ministers or political advisers. Well.
11:06
Alison Griffiths MP (Bognor Regis and Littlehampton, Conservative)
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Well. We were at the beginning. No, well, don't bother wasting my
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No, well, don't bother wasting my time, Alison Griffiths. Thank you, Mr Speaker. Can the. Minister. Tell us. Whether the Attorney.
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Whether the Attorney. General shares the concern of the CPS, that there. Isn't enough
Alison Griffiths MP (Bognor Regis and Littlehampton, Conservative)
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Well. We were at the beginning. No, well, don't bother wasting my
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No, well, don't bother wasting my time, Alison Griffiths. Thank you, Mr Speaker. Can the. Minister. Tell us. Whether the Attorney.
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Whether the Attorney. General shares the concern of the CPS, that there. Isn't enough
11:06
11:06
Bradley Thomas MP (Bromsgrove, Conservative)
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Bradley Thomas MP (Bromsgrove, Conservative)
House has share concern that this case didn't proceed, and that there wasn't enough evidence in it, but that decision was taken by the CPS.
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Bradley Thomas Mr Speaker. Minister. Came to. This House and.
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Said that the. National security. Adviser does. Not have any links to 48 Group, a group that. Promotes to 48 Group, a group that. Promotes economic links between the UK and China. Why did the minister say this? When the national security adviser was listed as a fellow of
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Bradley Thomas Mr Speaker. Minister. Came to. This House and.
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Said that the. National security. Adviser does. Not have any links to 48 Group, a group that. Promotes to 48 Group, a group that. Promotes economic links between the UK and China. Why did the minister say this? When the national security adviser was listed as a fellow of
11:07
Chris Ward MP, The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Brighton Kemptown and Peacehaven, Labour)
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adviser was listed as a fellow of the 48 group on their website until very recently? Right. I, I can't have the in the 48
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I, I can't have the in the 48 group. I don't know that. But like I said, the national security adviser, it was not involved in any part of
Chris Ward MP, The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Brighton Kemptown and Peacehaven, Labour)
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adviser was listed as a fellow of the 48 group on their website until very recently? Right. I, I can't have the in the 48
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I, I can't have the in the 48 group. I don't know that. But like I said, the national security adviser, it was not involved in any part of
11:07
Sir Ashley Fox MP (Bridgwater, Conservative)
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it was not involved in any part of this. As the Prime Minister made clear yesterday for. Mr Speaker, the. CPS decision not to prosecute
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CPS decision not to prosecute leaves our nation less secure. What assurance can the Minister give this House that the government did everything in its power to ensure the CPS had the necessary evidence to prosecute?
Sir Ashley Fox MP (Bridgwater, Conservative)
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it was not involved in any part of this. As the Prime Minister made clear yesterday for. Mr Speaker, the. CPS decision not to prosecute
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CPS decision not to prosecute leaves our nation less secure. What assurance can the Minister give this House that the government did everything in its power to ensure the CPS had the necessary evidence to prosecute?
11:07
Chris Ward MP, The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Brighton Kemptown and Peacehaven, Labour)
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Chris Ward MP, The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Brighton Kemptown and Peacehaven, Labour)
They come across. everything it could to provide to support the CPS in that process and to allow evidence to be submitted. But I would gently point out again, one of the reasons this did not. One of the reasons this did not proceed was because of Conservative policy at the time, not materially different from this policy, and because of the reliance on the 1911 act.
11:08
Jim Shannon MP (Strangford, Democratic Unionist Party)
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Jim Shannon MP (Strangford, Democratic Unionist Party)
No.
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Jim Shannon first. Mr Speaker. Thank you, Mr Speaker, for that
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Thank you, Mr Speaker, for that clarification. Minister, what a clarification. Minister, what a baptism of fire, did they? As an MP, I understand by that beautiful picture that words can paint, but I picture that words can paint, but I also understand that damaged by ugly words. Unfortunately, I am seeing here the problems of playing with words is leading to with great respect. We have respect to the respect. We have respect to the Minister. Does he acknowledge that play on words by government and CPS further erodes trust in government, and the witness statements may be construed to underline the views of my constituents and Strangford, and indeed elsewhere, that China is a threat to those in this great United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.
So will the Minister meet with his Cabinet Minister meet with his Cabinet colleagues to find, in an open and transparent path to justice, not simply for this, but other message simply for this, but other message to the Chinese government to ensure that they accept the sovereignty of that they accept the sovereignty of this country, of this nation, and that the protection that should and does exist for all those who live
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Jim Shannon first. Mr Speaker. Thank you, Mr Speaker, for that
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Thank you, Mr Speaker, for that clarification. Minister, what a clarification. Minister, what a baptism of fire, did they? As an MP, I understand by that beautiful picture that words can paint, but I picture that words can paint, but I also understand that damaged by ugly words. Unfortunately, I am seeing here the problems of playing with words is leading to with great respect. We have respect to the respect. We have respect to the Minister. Does he acknowledge that play on words by government and CPS further erodes trust in government, and the witness statements may be construed to underline the views of my constituents and Strangford, and indeed elsewhere, that China is a threat to those in this great United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.
So will the Minister meet with his Cabinet Minister meet with his Cabinet colleagues to find, in an open and transparent path to justice, not simply for this, but other message simply for this, but other message to the Chinese government to ensure that they accept the sovereignty of that they accept the sovereignty of this country, of this nation, and that the protection that should and does exist for all those who live
11:09
Chris Ward MP, The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Brighton Kemptown and Peacehaven, Labour)
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here, my constituents and everybody's constituency. Thank you. Mr Speaker, I think he raises a good point. And thank you for his kind words and welcoming me. If I can speak as many times as he does
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evening. I'm not sure. I'm not sure anyone really. I don't, you know.
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really. I don't, you know. Sue anyone. I'm not sure what anyone says. Look, he does make a very serious point about the threats, threats posed by China and the threats posed to his constituents and all of us, and that that really is the central message
Chris Ward MP, The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Brighton Kemptown and Peacehaven, Labour)
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here, my constituents and everybody's constituency. Thank you. Mr Speaker, I think he raises a good point. And thank you for his kind words and welcoming me. If I can speak as many times as he does
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evening. I'm not sure. I'm not sure anyone really. I don't, you know.
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really. I don't, you know. Sue anyone. I'm not sure what anyone says. Look, he does make a very serious point about the threats, threats posed by China and the threats posed to his constituents and all of us, and that that really is the central message
11:09
11:09
Alicia Kearns MP (Rutland and Stamford, Conservative)
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Alicia Kearns MP (Rutland and Stamford, Conservative)
Let's do.
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Until the statements published last night, some of us had no idea about the details of this case, but about the details of this case, but the government appears unwilling to answer three questions. Mr Speaker, there have been asked repeatedly in this chamber. So can you kindly help this chamber. So can you kindly help me ascertain how we get answers to them? The first is proof that for the 14 months the CPS asked, the DNC the 14 months the CPS asked, the DNC at no point spoke to any ministers or national security Adviser.
Why, when the Prime Minister was when the Prime Minister was informed, the case would collapse, that he did not do everything in his power and evidence that he took any action at all? And why? If the government is so disappointed the case collapsed, why? To this day, there have been no repercussions for there have been no repercussions for the Chinese Communist Party, despite the government in power having every tool in their box to make clear that
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Until the statements published last night, some of us had no idea about the details of this case, but about the details of this case, but the government appears unwilling to answer three questions. Mr Speaker, there have been asked repeatedly in this chamber. So can you kindly help this chamber. So can you kindly help me ascertain how we get answers to them? The first is proof that for the 14 months the CPS asked, the DNC the 14 months the CPS asked, the DNC at no point spoke to any ministers or national security Adviser.
Why, when the Prime Minister was when the Prime Minister was informed, the case would collapse, that he did not do everything in his power and evidence that he took any action at all? And why? If the government is so disappointed the case collapsed, why? To this day, there have been no repercussions for there have been no repercussions for the Chinese Communist Party, despite the government in power having every tool in their box to make clear that
11:10
Mr Speaker
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we will protect this House, this democracy in this country. yeah. Can I just say I can't prolong
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Can I just say I can't prolong the UQ? What I would say is, and I know the honourable. Lady well, she won't leave it at
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Lady well, she won't leave it at that point of order. What I do know is that she will go and use all the is that she will go and use all the options that are open to her, and I'm sure that she'll be coming back in not too far a distant time.
Mr Speaker
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we will protect this House, this democracy in this country. yeah. Can I just say I can't prolong
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Can I just say I can't prolong the UQ? What I would say is, and I know the honourable. Lady well, she won't leave it at
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Lady well, she won't leave it at that point of order. What I do know is that she will go and use all the is that she will go and use all the options that are open to her, and I'm sure that she'll be coming back in not too far a distant time.
11:11
Rt Hon Tom Tugendhat MP (Tonbridge, Conservative)
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Rt Hon Tom Tugendhat MP (Tonbridge, Conservative)
A point.
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No, I'm going to raise a different argument. Mr Speaker, if I may, given that the.
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may, given that the. bureaucrats. Run the. Government, the bureaucrats. Are in charge of everything. May we dissolve this House and
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No, I'm going to raise a different argument. Mr Speaker, if I may, given that the.
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may, given that the. bureaucrats. Run the. Government, the bureaucrats. Are in charge of everything. May we dissolve this House and
11:11
Rt Hon Graham Stuart MP (Beverley and Holderness, Conservative)
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I'm sure the honourable member didn't want to give up his seat quite so quickly. Right. Let us move on. To Point of order Grimes.
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To Point of order Grimes. Thank you, Mr Speaker. I'm sure you've taken a close interest in this issue. The fact that it goes to the heart of this Parliament, the protection of Members of Parliament and the secrets that we sometimes hold. But I'm sure you will share with me concern that someone on their very first outing is sent out on this, and that the Prime Minister used yesterday's PMQs and has not faced proper scrutiny in this House in a statement.
So can I gently ask whether you would seek to have him make a statement to the House order?
Rt Hon Graham Stuart MP (Beverley and Holderness, Conservative)
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I'm sure the honourable member didn't want to give up his seat quite so quickly. Right. Let us move on. To Point of order Grimes.
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To Point of order Grimes. Thank you, Mr Speaker. I'm sure you've taken a close interest in this issue. The fact that it goes to the heart of this Parliament, the protection of Members of Parliament and the secrets that we sometimes hold. But I'm sure you will share with me concern that someone on their very first outing is sent out on this, and that the Prime Minister used yesterday's PMQs and has not faced proper scrutiny in this House in a statement.
So can I gently ask whether you would seek to have him make a statement to the House order?
11:11
Mr Speaker
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Mr Speaker
It's not even a point of order and you know that. And we are keeping the debate going. Well, I would say I do congratulate the honourable member. I do feel sorry that this is his first outing, but I've got to say, you take the paycheque, you also take the pain to
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go with him. Before we.
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go with him. Before we.
11:12
Speaker's Statement
Mr Speaker
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Move to business. Right. OK. Let's. Before we move to business
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Before we move to business questions I'd like to pay tribute to BBC radio four Today in Parliament BBC radio four Today in Parliament programme, which last week celebrated its 80th anniversary. Barring the occasional power cut, Barring the occasional power cut, today in Parliament has been broadcasting every night. That Parliament has been sitting since it Parliament has been sitting since it was first heard in the 9th of October 1945. My predecessor and great friend, Baroness Betty great friend, Baroness Betty Boothroyd, thought the programme was champion and once commented that she champion and once commented that she would even put her boot down to listen to it in bed.
So on behalf of the House, I would like to say congratulations to Dame Parliament and its many presenters for covering and its many presenters for covering our proceedings. An incredible 13,000 episodes over 80 wonderful
Speaker's Statement
Mr Speaker
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Move to business. Right. OK. Let's. Before we move to business
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Before we move to business questions I'd like to pay tribute to BBC radio four Today in Parliament BBC radio four Today in Parliament programme, which last week celebrated its 80th anniversary. Barring the occasional power cut, Barring the occasional power cut, today in Parliament has been broadcasting every night. That Parliament has been sitting since it Parliament has been sitting since it was first heard in the 9th of October 1945. My predecessor and great friend, Baroness Betty great friend, Baroness Betty Boothroyd, thought the programme was champion and once commented that she champion and once commented that she would even put her boot down to listen to it in bed.
So on behalf of the House, I would like to say congratulations to Dame Parliament and its many presenters for covering and its many presenters for covering our proceedings. An incredible 13,000 episodes over 80 wonderful
11:13
Business Statement: Business Questions to the Leader of the House
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years. This this question is I know called the shadow Leader of the House. Thank you, Mr Speaker. Will the Leader of the House.
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Leader of the House. Give us the forthcoming business? With permission, Mr Speaker, I shall. Give the business.
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For. The week commencing the week commencing the 20th of October, which includes Monday, the 20th October Committee of the whole House and remaining stages of the Diego Garcia military base and British Indian Indian Ocean Territory. Bill. Tuesday, the 21st Committee of the whole House of the sentencing Bill. Wednesday the 22nd of October. Consideration of a Lords message to the Renters Right Bill, followed by debate and a motion relating to the financial assistance industry, followed by a motion to approve the draft National Health Service Procurement, Slavery and Human Trafficking Regulations 2025, followed by a general debate on
Business Statement: Business Questions to the Leader of the House
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years. This this question is I know called the shadow Leader of the House. Thank you, Mr Speaker. Will the Leader of the House.
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Leader of the House. Give us the forthcoming business? With permission, Mr Speaker, I shall. Give the business.
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For. The week commencing the week commencing the 20th of October, which includes Monday, the 20th October Committee of the whole House and remaining stages of the Diego Garcia military base and British Indian Indian Ocean Territory. Bill. Tuesday, the 21st Committee of the whole House of the sentencing Bill. Wednesday the 22nd of October. Consideration of a Lords message to the Renters Right Bill, followed by debate and a motion relating to the financial assistance industry, followed by a motion to approve the draft National Health Service Procurement, Slavery and Human Trafficking Regulations 2025, followed by a general debate on
11:14
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devolution in Scotland. The subject for this debate was determined by the Backbench Business Committee on Thursday, the 23rd of October, a general debate on Black History Month on Friday the 24th of October. The House will not be sitting and the provisional business for the week commencing the 27th of October includes Monday, the 27th of October. Remaining stages of the Victims and Courts Bill.
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Deputy Deputy. Leader and Leader of the House for information for the forthcoming for information for the forthcoming and business. I want to start by paying tribute to Lord Ming Campbell, a former member of this Campbell, a former member of this place and former leader of the Liberal Democrats. He was a hugely respected parliamentarian and I know he will be much missed. I would also like to express my deepest sympathies to those killed, injured sympathies to those killed, injured and affected in the horrific terrorist attack at the Heaton Park Hebrew Congregation synagogue in Manchester.
Mr Speaker, I am substituting today for the shadow substituting today for the shadow leader who is in Poland with the Defence Select Committee. Mr Speaker, what an interesting Speaker, what an interesting conference recess it has been. I was in Manchester for a fantastic Conservative Party conference, but
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Conservative Party conference, but also out and about. At home. In my beautiful constituency in
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In my beautiful constituency in the Scottish Borders. From spending time with the Scouts and hike to fighting illness, plans to cut the fighting illness, plans to cut the number of train services in the borders. It has been a busy few weeks. We have seen six party conferences during recess. The SNP maintained their age old obsession maintained their age old obsession with independence rather than sorting out Scotland's struggling NHS, schools and transport system. The Right Honourable member for Kingston and Surbiton continued auditioning to become a circus act, auditioning to become a circus act, and the Labour Party continued their division.
division.
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Deputy Deputy. Leader and Leader of the House for information for the forthcoming for information for the forthcoming and business. I want to start by paying tribute to Lord Ming Campbell, a former member of this Campbell, a former member of this place and former leader of the Liberal Democrats. He was a hugely respected parliamentarian and I know he will be much missed. I would also like to express my deepest sympathies to those killed, injured sympathies to those killed, injured and affected in the horrific terrorist attack at the Heaton Park Hebrew Congregation synagogue in Manchester.
Mr Speaker, I am substituting today for the shadow substituting today for the shadow leader who is in Poland with the Defence Select Committee. Mr Speaker, what an interesting Speaker, what an interesting conference recess it has been. I was in Manchester for a fantastic Conservative Party conference, but
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Conservative Party conference, but also out and about. At home. In my beautiful constituency in
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In my beautiful constituency in the Scottish Borders. From spending time with the Scouts and hike to fighting illness, plans to cut the fighting illness, plans to cut the number of train services in the borders. It has been a busy few weeks. We have seen six party conferences during recess. The SNP maintained their age old obsession maintained their age old obsession with independence rather than sorting out Scotland's struggling NHS, schools and transport system. The Right Honourable member for Kingston and Surbiton continued auditioning to become a circus act, auditioning to become a circus act, and the Labour Party continued their division.
division.
11:16
Mr Speaker
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scuttled out the back door of the conference centre. How embarrassing for the. Other Mr. Snell.
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I thought you were the man that has sent me a letter by going to the chairman's panel. This is not the. Way to get.
Mr Speaker
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scuttled out the back door of the conference centre. How embarrassing for the. Other Mr. Snell.
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I thought you were the man that has sent me a letter by going to the chairman's panel. This is not the. Way to get.
11:16
John Lamont MP (Berwickshire, Roxburgh and Selkirk, Conservative)
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Way to get. A good interview. Come on. Thank you, Mr Speaker. How embarrassing for the party opposite, I. I'm sure the Leader of the House is relieved to be no longer the government's Chief Whip, although perhaps he thinks he could have done perhaps he thinks he could have done a better job and than his successor at attempting to manage the increasingly rowdy mob.
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increasingly rowdy mob. Lurking behind him. Mr Speaker, the Labour Party conference was also deeply disrespectful to this House. deeply disrespectful to this House. We had government policy announcements galore. It was like a days.
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days. Major policy announcements. All made to the party. Members and trade union barons
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and Liverpool, and not. To this House, where members have had to wait over. Two. Weeks to hold ministers to account.
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account. That is simply not acceptable. So what does the Leader of the House
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what does the Leader of the House going to do to ensure this government shows. MPs and. This Parliament. The respect we deserve? The most
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controversial announcement was the plan to introduce digital ID. Can the Minister, can the. Leader confirm when.
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This legislation will come. Before Parliament so. The MPs can finally. Scrutinise what is.
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Scrutinise what is. Being planned? Mr Speaker, I visited many local businesses in the Scottish Borders during recess and Scottish Borders during recess and they are, quite frankly, terrified. Terrified of what The Chancellor plans to do to them in her budget. plans to do to them in her budget. And yesterday The Chancellor admitted what we all knew she is going to raise taxes in the budget going to raise taxes in the budget once again, because this Labour government has destroyed our government has destroyed our economy.
Unemployment up by over 17% since Labour came to power. Another rise this week, fuelled so sadly by rising joblessness amongst young people. The IMF says we will have a
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people. The IMF says we will have a highest rate of inflation. Of any. Country in the G7. That's the reality. More people's jobs and
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reality. More people's jobs and livelihoods on. The line, people's. Household bills getting bigger
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Household bills getting bigger and bigger. A cost of living crisis. The Chancellor should listen to the challenges facing households and
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businesses across the nation, across the nation. So can I ask. The leader whether the government
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will set out a plan for how it will help households across the UK, with the increasing cost. Of living? In contrast, Mr
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Of living? In contrast, Mr Speaker, the Conservative Party conference in Manchester could not have been more different to the party offices.
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Cost state bold plans for a stronger economy and stronger borders, reducing the cost of buying your home, cutting the cost. Of people's energy bills, reducing the people's energy bills, reducing the size of the welfare state, leaving the Echr to take back control. Our borders cracking down on crime and borders cracking down on crime and much, much more. Whilst we have been doing the hard, detailed work to doing the hard, detailed work to decide which taxes we will cut, The Chancellor will deciding which ones she wants to put up.
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she wants to put up. Finally, I know members are deeply concerned at the collapse of the China spying trial. Earlier this week, the government claimed it could not publish the evidence relating to the collapse of the.
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relating to the collapse of the. Trial because the CPS wouldn't allow it. I claim the CPS said was allow it. I claim the CPS said was completely incorrect. Mr Speaker, there are key questions for the government. What additional evidence that the CPS requests from the government? Did the Prime Minister authorise? The withholding of this by.
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by. Government to win favour. With the Chinese government? This House deserves to know the truth.
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House deserves to know the truth. We need to see. The China files. Yesterday, a number of chairs of House of Commons number of chairs of House of Commons committees met the Director of Public Prosecutions, and they will now be a formal inquiry. So I ask the leader, will he ensure that all parts of the government fully cooperate with this inquiry? China remains a real and present threat unless the government acts, all of our security is at risk.
John Lamont MP (Berwickshire, Roxburgh and Selkirk, Conservative)
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Way to get. A good interview. Come on. Thank you, Mr Speaker. How embarrassing for the party opposite, I. I'm sure the Leader of the House is relieved to be no longer the government's Chief Whip, although perhaps he thinks he could have done perhaps he thinks he could have done a better job and than his successor at attempting to manage the increasingly rowdy mob.
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increasingly rowdy mob. Lurking behind him. Mr Speaker, the Labour Party conference was also deeply disrespectful to this House. deeply disrespectful to this House. We had government policy announcements galore. It was like a days.
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days. Major policy announcements. All made to the party. Members and trade union barons
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and Liverpool, and not. To this House, where members have had to wait over. Two. Weeks to hold ministers to account.
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account. That is simply not acceptable. So what does the Leader of the House
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what does the Leader of the House going to do to ensure this government shows. MPs and. This Parliament. The respect we deserve? The most
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controversial announcement was the plan to introduce digital ID. Can the Minister, can the. Leader confirm when.
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This legislation will come. Before Parliament so. The MPs can finally. Scrutinise what is.
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Scrutinise what is. Being planned? Mr Speaker, I visited many local businesses in the Scottish Borders during recess and Scottish Borders during recess and they are, quite frankly, terrified. Terrified of what The Chancellor plans to do to them in her budget. plans to do to them in her budget. And yesterday The Chancellor admitted what we all knew she is going to raise taxes in the budget going to raise taxes in the budget once again, because this Labour government has destroyed our government has destroyed our economy.
Unemployment up by over 17% since Labour came to power. Another rise this week, fuelled so sadly by rising joblessness amongst young people. The IMF says we will have a
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people. The IMF says we will have a highest rate of inflation. Of any. Country in the G7. That's the reality. More people's jobs and
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reality. More people's jobs and livelihoods on. The line, people's. Household bills getting bigger
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Household bills getting bigger and bigger. A cost of living crisis. The Chancellor should listen to the challenges facing households and
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businesses across the nation, across the nation. So can I ask. The leader whether the government
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will set out a plan for how it will help households across the UK, with the increasing cost. Of living? In contrast, Mr
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Of living? In contrast, Mr Speaker, the Conservative Party conference in Manchester could not have been more different to the party offices.
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Cost state bold plans for a stronger economy and stronger borders, reducing the cost of buying your home, cutting the cost. Of people's energy bills, reducing the people's energy bills, reducing the size of the welfare state, leaving the Echr to take back control. Our borders cracking down on crime and borders cracking down on crime and much, much more. Whilst we have been doing the hard, detailed work to doing the hard, detailed work to decide which taxes we will cut, The Chancellor will deciding which ones she wants to put up.
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she wants to put up. Finally, I know members are deeply concerned at the collapse of the China spying trial. Earlier this week, the government claimed it could not publish the evidence relating to the collapse of the.
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relating to the collapse of the. Trial because the CPS wouldn't allow it. I claim the CPS said was allow it. I claim the CPS said was completely incorrect. Mr Speaker, there are key questions for the government. What additional evidence that the CPS requests from the government? Did the Prime Minister authorise? The withholding of this by.
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by. Government to win favour. With the Chinese government? This House deserves to know the truth.
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House deserves to know the truth. We need to see. The China files. Yesterday, a number of chairs of House of Commons number of chairs of House of Commons committees met the Director of Public Prosecutions, and they will now be a formal inquiry. So I ask the leader, will he ensure that all parts of the government fully cooperate with this inquiry? China remains a real and present threat unless the government acts, all of our security is at risk.
11:20
Rt Hon Sir Alan Campbell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Tynemouth, Labour)
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Rt Hon Sir Alan Campbell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Tynemouth, Labour)
The Leader of the House.
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Mr Speaker, first of all, can I welcome the honourable gentleman to welcome the honourable gentleman to his place? The shadow Deputy leader. his place? The shadow Deputy leader. For his inaugural address, along with the member for Carshalton and Wallington, who also makes his debut today, I find myself in the unusual position of only my second outing, position of only my second outing, of being somewhat of a veteran, of questioning. Mr Speaker, I, as ever, due diligence led me to Wikipedia.
To find out a bit more about the honourable gentleman. And I honourable gentleman. And I discovered that in the 2018 London Marathon he was, in fact the fastest MP that took part with a commendable time untold, a commendable time of three hours, 38 minutes and three seconds. And genuinely, that is not only an impressive achievement, but the fact that then and since then he the fact that then and since then he has raised a great deal of money for charities is really to his into his credit.
But also, Mr Speaker, I also credit. But also, Mr Speaker, I also note that in 2014 he became the first UK politician to complete an Ironman triathlon. So it seems fitting, Mr Speaker. Well, that in Margaret Thatcher's centenary year that today I find myself up against the party's new iron gentleman. I want to associate myself completely with his words around the terrible Manchester attack, which is quite rightly be condemned on all sides of this House, and also with his words of tribute to the late Ming Campbell, who was, as he said, hugely respected and a dedicated public service and a tireless champion for his constituents.
And as the late Denis Healey would say, he was also a politician that had hinterland. Yesterday was also, Mr Speaker, the fourth anniversary of the murder of Sir David Amos, and he dedicated almost four decades to this House and to his constituents. We remember him fondly and with respect as we do our friend at Jo Cox, and we recommit ourselves on these occasions to the values that brought them and us to public service. But we also need to remind ourselves of the importance of the language and the tone of our debates and our deliberations.
Let me now turn to the questions posed by the honourable gentleman. And as an athlete of some renown and a marathon runner, his description of the Manchester conference reminded me of one of my favourite films, which is The Loneliness of the Long Distance Runner. In terms of respect for Parliament, I stand second to none in respect for this place and we will be bringing forward digital ID legislation in due course. But we did bring it to the floor of the House in a statement after the earliest opportunity on Monday of this week.
In terms of his comments on the economy, I genuinely believe that anyone on that side of the House who stands up and says anything about the economy should begin with an apology.
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Yeah. Yeah, because this was the only government in recent times, Mr Speaker, where living standards were Speaker, where living standards were lower at the end of the Parliament than they were at the beginning. As for the detail of the budget and whether or not there is a plan, of course there is a plan for growth. He knows that he will have to wait until the 26th of November for any details out for that. In terms of the evolving situation regarding the matter of China.
I am the fourth Minister this week to stand at the Minister this week to stand at the box. As I am aware of, to potentially face questions about that, but he rightly pointed out a very key meeting that took place, I think, yesterday, which was the DPP think, yesterday, which was the DPP and committee chairs. And I am a firm believer in strong, independent firm believer in strong, independent select committees, and I am quite sure that they will do a fantastic job should they put their mind to job should they put their mind to that.
It's not for me to tell them how to do it. And in terms of cooperation from the government, of course, I would expect that committees will get the full cooperation for everything that they
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Mr Speaker, first of all, can I welcome the honourable gentleman to welcome the honourable gentleman to his place? The shadow Deputy leader. his place? The shadow Deputy leader. For his inaugural address, along with the member for Carshalton and Wallington, who also makes his debut today, I find myself in the unusual position of only my second outing, position of only my second outing, of being somewhat of a veteran, of questioning. Mr Speaker, I, as ever, due diligence led me to Wikipedia.
To find out a bit more about the honourable gentleman. And I honourable gentleman. And I discovered that in the 2018 London Marathon he was, in fact the fastest MP that took part with a commendable time untold, a commendable time of three hours, 38 minutes and three seconds. And genuinely, that is not only an impressive achievement, but the fact that then and since then he the fact that then and since then he has raised a great deal of money for charities is really to his into his credit.
But also, Mr Speaker, I also credit. But also, Mr Speaker, I also note that in 2014 he became the first UK politician to complete an Ironman triathlon. So it seems fitting, Mr Speaker. Well, that in Margaret Thatcher's centenary year that today I find myself up against the party's new iron gentleman. I want to associate myself completely with his words around the terrible Manchester attack, which is quite rightly be condemned on all sides of this House, and also with his words of tribute to the late Ming Campbell, who was, as he said, hugely respected and a dedicated public service and a tireless champion for his constituents.
And as the late Denis Healey would say, he was also a politician that had hinterland. Yesterday was also, Mr Speaker, the fourth anniversary of the murder of Sir David Amos, and he dedicated almost four decades to this House and to his constituents. We remember him fondly and with respect as we do our friend at Jo Cox, and we recommit ourselves on these occasions to the values that brought them and us to public service. But we also need to remind ourselves of the importance of the language and the tone of our debates and our deliberations.
Let me now turn to the questions posed by the honourable gentleman. And as an athlete of some renown and a marathon runner, his description of the Manchester conference reminded me of one of my favourite films, which is The Loneliness of the Long Distance Runner. In terms of respect for Parliament, I stand second to none in respect for this place and we will be bringing forward digital ID legislation in due course. But we did bring it to the floor of the House in a statement after the earliest opportunity on Monday of this week.
In terms of his comments on the economy, I genuinely believe that anyone on that side of the House who stands up and says anything about the economy should begin with an apology.
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Yeah. Yeah, because this was the only government in recent times, Mr Speaker, where living standards were Speaker, where living standards were lower at the end of the Parliament than they were at the beginning. As for the detail of the budget and whether or not there is a plan, of course there is a plan for growth. He knows that he will have to wait until the 26th of November for any details out for that. In terms of the evolving situation regarding the matter of China.
I am the fourth Minister this week to stand at the Minister this week to stand at the box. As I am aware of, to potentially face questions about that, but he rightly pointed out a very key meeting that took place, I think, yesterday, which was the DPP think, yesterday, which was the DPP and committee chairs. And I am a firm believer in strong, independent firm believer in strong, independent select committees, and I am quite sure that they will do a fantastic job should they put their mind to job should they put their mind to that.
It's not for me to tell them how to do it. And in terms of cooperation from the government, of course, I would expect that committees will get the full cooperation for everything that they
11:24
Maya Ellis MP (Ribble Valley, Labour)
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cooperation for everything that they seek from the government. Thank you. Alice. Thank you, Mr Speaker. On Monday, members spoke movingly.
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members spoke movingly. In the. Backbench business debate marking Baby Loss Awareness Week, highlighting the bicycle multifaceted role of military in
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this. Week, the Chief Executive. Of the. Royal. College of. Midwives announced that.
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Midwives announced that. They had decided not to. Contribute to the NHS. England's Professional. Strategy for nursing and.
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clear. That midwifery. Was being. Treated as. An afterthought. While the leader allocate time to debate the need for a distinct midwifery strategy, one that reflects its unique contribution and one that creates a positive, proactive plan and funding model for
Maya Ellis MP (Ribble Valley, Labour)
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cooperation for everything that they seek from the government. Thank you. Alice. Thank you, Mr Speaker. On Monday, members spoke movingly.
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members spoke movingly. In the. Backbench business debate marking Baby Loss Awareness Week, highlighting the bicycle multifaceted role of military in
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this. Week, the Chief Executive. Of the. Royal. College of. Midwives announced that.
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Midwives announced that. They had decided not to. Contribute to the NHS. England's Professional. Strategy for nursing and.
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clear. That midwifery. Was being. Treated as. An afterthought. While the leader allocate time to debate the need for a distinct midwifery strategy, one that reflects its unique contribution and one that creates a positive, proactive plan and funding model for
11:24
Rt Hon Sir Alan Campbell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Tynemouth, Labour)
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proactive plan and funding model for maternity care overall, giving midwifery the priority it deserves. With its pivotal role in all our lives. Mr Speaker.
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Mr Speaker. I wholeheartedly agree with her that midwives provide vital and diverse services, particularly when diverse services, particularly when they are supporting bereaved families. The independent National Investigation into Maternity and Neonatal Care will report in spring next year, and we are committed to recruiting both more midwives, but also making sure that they that we retain those with experience. She raises a really important point, and there are avenues for her to raise this in debate. Backbench business or indeed adjournment debate.
And I'm sure there will be popular debates, but also I'll ensure that the Health Secretary is made aware of her comments.
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Bobby Dean Liberal Democrat spokesperson. Thank you, Mr Speaker. And can I thank the leader. Of the House for his.
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Of the House for his. welcome. I received online where somebody compared me to a fellow contestant compared me to a fellow contestant on The Apprentice. So that's a good start. Can I share in the sympathetic mentioned about the synagogue in Manchester, and also for the tribute to me in Canberra, which are greatly appreciated by which are greatly appreciated by this side of the House? I'd like to also thank my honourable friend, the member for Chelmsford for the member for Chelmsford for the service she gave in this role, and wish her well in her new job as well.
This past week, we've been well. This past week, we've been digesting news of the ceasefire and the Middle East, and despite the Middle East, and despite reporting it's got nothing to do with President Trump's candidacy for Nobel Peace Prize and all about the
Rt Hon Sir Alan Campbell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Tynemouth, Labour)
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proactive plan and funding model for maternity care overall, giving midwifery the priority it deserves. With its pivotal role in all our lives. Mr Speaker.
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Mr Speaker. I wholeheartedly agree with her that midwives provide vital and diverse services, particularly when diverse services, particularly when they are supporting bereaved families. The independent National Investigation into Maternity and Neonatal Care will report in spring next year, and we are committed to recruiting both more midwives, but also making sure that they that we retain those with experience. She raises a really important point, and there are avenues for her to raise this in debate. Backbench business or indeed adjournment debate.
And I'm sure there will be popular debates, but also I'll ensure that the Health Secretary is made aware of her comments.
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Bobby Dean Liberal Democrat spokesperson. Thank you, Mr Speaker. And can I thank the leader. Of the House for his.
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Of the House for his. welcome. I received online where somebody compared me to a fellow contestant compared me to a fellow contestant on The Apprentice. So that's a good start. Can I share in the sympathetic mentioned about the synagogue in Manchester, and also for the tribute to me in Canberra, which are greatly appreciated by which are greatly appreciated by this side of the House? I'd like to also thank my honourable friend, the member for Chelmsford for the member for Chelmsford for the service she gave in this role, and wish her well in her new job as well.
This past week, we've been well. This past week, we've been digesting news of the ceasefire and the Middle East, and despite the Middle East, and despite reporting it's got nothing to do with President Trump's candidacy for Nobel Peace Prize and all about the
11:26
Bobby Dean MP (Carshalton and Wallington, Liberal Democrat)
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Bobby Dean MP (Carshalton and Wallington, Liberal Democrat)
welfare of the people living in that region. It is indescribable relief that the hostages are now heading home, and that the bloodshed can come to an end. Now, of course, the immediate concern is that the ceasefire holds, and the hope is that there will be a just and sustainable peace in the region, including a two state solution. But as we look to the future, I think it's also important that we do not forget what happened before. Just a few weeks ago, there was a UN report that a genocide had taken place in Gaza, and it's the international community's obligation to establish the truth and hold those responsible to account.
So can the government, at the appropriate time, make a statement about how Britain will contribute to such an international process, so that justice and accountability for what happened in Gaza could be served?
So can the government, at the appropriate time, make a statement about how Britain will contribute to such an international process, so that justice and accountability for what happened in Gaza could be served?
11:27
Rt Hon Sir Alan Campbell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Tynemouth, Labour)
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Rt Hon Sir Alan Campbell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Tynemouth, Labour)
Thank you, Mr Speaker. I welcome the honourable gentleman to his new rule, and I genuinely look forward to exchanges and working with him on the committees that we will both be on. The honourable gentleman comes from a very good pedigree in in terms of his constituency, because Tom brake, who served his constituency between 1997 and 2019, actually did the same job as the honourable gentleman is now doing, including as deputy Leader of the House in government. He was a it will be a hard act to follow, but I genuinely wish the honourable gentleman well.
I also join with him in thanking his predecessor, who I didn't get to know particularly well. The for member Chelmsford. Although we will be continuing to work on some committees together for the work that she did and her role, particularly on the Modernisation Committee. To answer his question. First of all, I join with him in welcoming the landmark first step of a ceasefire being achieved and seeing hostages released after so long and aid returning to Gaza. The government is committed to playing a leading role in Gaza's reconstruction.
The next stage of talks on implementation of the peace plan. He is right accountability and justice for everyone who has committed atrocities, including those involved on in 7th of October, are absolutely crucial. The government's long standing position is that it is up to the courts to determine whether a genocide has occurred, and we will continue to support international law and its essential role in achieving justice in the region as we go forward.
I also join with him in thanking his predecessor, who I didn't get to know particularly well. The for member Chelmsford. Although we will be continuing to work on some committees together for the work that she did and her role, particularly on the Modernisation Committee. To answer his question. First of all, I join with him in welcoming the landmark first step of a ceasefire being achieved and seeing hostages released after so long and aid returning to Gaza. The government is committed to playing a leading role in Gaza's reconstruction.
The next stage of talks on implementation of the peace plan. He is right accountability and justice for everyone who has committed atrocities, including those involved on in 7th of October, are absolutely crucial. The government's long standing position is that it is up to the courts to determine whether a genocide has occurred, and we will continue to support international law and its essential role in achieving justice in the region as we go forward.
11:28
Nick Smith MP (Blaenau Gwent and Rhymney, Labour)
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Nick Smith MP (Blaenau Gwent and Rhymney, Labour)
Thanks. Mr Speaker, will we leave you the House, please? Granted. Debate on tenants paying a reasonable rent to their landlord in Blaenau Gwent and Rhymney. Vodafone are in dispute with one of my community organisations, the ABA Bargoed Rifle and Pistol Club, over the hosting of a telecoms mast. Vodafone's rent helps fund the club's Christmas dinner and visits to. Places of interest such as the Royal Armouries Museum in Leeds and Bisley. Does the leader agree with me that it's important for large
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telecoms corporations to work wherever possible, hand in hand. With our local.
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telecoms corporations to work wherever possible, hand in hand. With our local.
11:29
Rt Hon Sir Alan Campbell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Tynemouth, Labour)
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Community organisations? Mr Speaker, I agree, absolutely, because I think we've all got examples of where the opposite is examples of where the opposite is the case and where they don't do that. It's not only painful for communities, but it's actually ultimately painful for some of those companies, too. In terms of rents. I would remind them that we've still got the renters' rights bill coming through this House. He may wish to make some of the cases that he points that he makes in in that debate, or he may wish to ask for a debate where, again, because of the experiences many members are, I've in.
Rt Hon Sir Alan Campbell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Tynemouth, Labour)
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Community organisations? Mr Speaker, I agree, absolutely, because I think we've all got examples of where the opposite is examples of where the opposite is the case and where they don't do that. It's not only painful for communities, but it's actually ultimately painful for some of those companies, too. In terms of rents. I would remind them that we've still got the renters' rights bill coming through this House. He may wish to make some of the cases that he points that he makes in in that debate, or he may wish to ask for a debate where, again, because of the experiences many members are, I've in.
11:30
Bob Blackman MP (Harrow East, Conservative)
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Bob Blackman MP (Harrow East, Conservative)
So the Backbench Committee Bob
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Blackman. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. And I'd like to thank the leader. Particularly for allowing
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Particularly for allowing protected time on Monday. For. The baby loss debate. It was a three hour debate, and I think we
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three hour debate, and I think we were down to a three minute limit. On backbenchers. opportunity. To speak. So I.
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Trust that we can. Look. At. next. Wednesday when. We have.
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The debate on devolution in Scotland. And I know this. Important government business before that. But if he could allow. Protected time because this debate had to be pushed from its original date to a future date, and. I'm date to a future date, and. I'm always. Keen to offer support for the leader. And so on Thursday, the 30th of October, if we're granted 30th of October, if we're granted the day, there'll be a debate on property service charges, followed by a debate on ageing community and by a debate on ageing community and end of life care.
Next week in Westminster Hall. There'll be a Westminster Hall. There'll be a debate on Tuesday on the progress on ending homelessness, and on Thursday a debate on performance of the building safety regulator, followed by a debate on the impact of NHS by a debate on the impact of NHS workforce levels on cancer patients. Well, on the 28th of October in Westminster Hall, there'll be a Westminster Hall, there'll be a debate on obesity and fatty liver disease. And on Thursday, the 30th, historic histological testing of excised moles, followed by a debate on which will be organised by the Liaison Committee on the Education Committee debate, which I believe is going to be on SMD.
Now, Mr Speaker, next week Hindu six Jains and Buddhists will be celebrating Diwali. That's a happy occasion when everyone will be celebrating, followed by Hindu New Year. Unfortunately, in Bangladesh, that's not the case. On Tuesday at the All-Party parliamentary Group that for British Hindus, we received a report from insight UK talking about the persecution of Hindus in Bangladesh. They are persecuted, oppressed, killed, their temples are destroyed and their properties are being literally burnt down with with members of the of the household in it.
So could we have a statement from a government minister? I've raised this before. Could we have a statement from a government minister? But what action we're going to take to safeguard minorities in Bangladesh when they are suffering from severe oppression?
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Blackman. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. And I'd like to thank the leader. Particularly for allowing
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Particularly for allowing protected time on Monday. For. The baby loss debate. It was a three hour debate, and I think we
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three hour debate, and I think we were down to a three minute limit. On backbenchers. opportunity. To speak. So I.
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Trust that we can. Look. At. next. Wednesday when. We have.
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The debate on devolution in Scotland. And I know this. Important government business before that. But if he could allow. Protected time because this debate had to be pushed from its original date to a future date, and. I'm date to a future date, and. I'm always. Keen to offer support for the leader. And so on Thursday, the 30th of October, if we're granted 30th of October, if we're granted the day, there'll be a debate on property service charges, followed by a debate on ageing community and by a debate on ageing community and end of life care.
Next week in Westminster Hall. There'll be a Westminster Hall. There'll be a debate on Tuesday on the progress on ending homelessness, and on Thursday a debate on performance of the building safety regulator, followed by a debate on the impact of NHS by a debate on the impact of NHS workforce levels on cancer patients. Well, on the 28th of October in Westminster Hall, there'll be a Westminster Hall, there'll be a debate on obesity and fatty liver disease. And on Thursday, the 30th, historic histological testing of excised moles, followed by a debate on which will be organised by the Liaison Committee on the Education Committee debate, which I believe is going to be on SMD.
Now, Mr Speaker, next week Hindu six Jains and Buddhists will be celebrating Diwali. That's a happy occasion when everyone will be celebrating, followed by Hindu New Year. Unfortunately, in Bangladesh, that's not the case. On Tuesday at the All-Party parliamentary Group that for British Hindus, we received a report from insight UK talking about the persecution of Hindus in Bangladesh. They are persecuted, oppressed, killed, their temples are destroyed and their properties are being literally burnt down with with members of the of the household in it.
So could we have a statement from a government minister? I've raised this before. Could we have a statement from a government minister? But what action we're going to take to safeguard minorities in Bangladesh when they are suffering from severe oppression?
11:32
Rt Hon Sir Alan Campbell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Tynemouth, Labour)
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Rt Hon Sir Alan Campbell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Tynemouth, Labour)
Thank you, Mr Speaker. I'm grateful to the honourable gentleman for updating the House on the work of the backbench business and want to thank him for his diligent work as the Chair of that committee. It is the case that we protected time last Monday, and it was good that people were able to get in for a limited time. But let me go further than that, Mr Speaker. I was. Distressed to some extent by the fact that the debate didn't start until 9:00 at night, and as a result, it didn't finish until midnight.
It is true that it was. It meant that the debate went ahead, and it meant that people were able to get into that debate and have their say. But I know from past experience how difficult it is for colleagues to stand up and often tell their personal stories, and I don't think it's the place of this House, if we can manage it, to get to a situation where those stories are not told until 11:00 or half 11 at night. And a wider point, Mr Speaker, I'm I'm drifting somewhat on here.
But a wider point is, you know, is how we use Mondays. At the beginning of the day, there were three big statements, and undoubtedly they took a lot of time out of that. But they were important statements that had to be made. And I think we do need to address that. And we need to think about not just the time for debate, but also the content of debates as well, so that we give those topics the respect that they deserve. I thank him not just for his work on the Backbench Business Committee, but as the Chair of the All Parliamentary All-Party parliamentary Group for British Hindus.
We strongly condemn, Mr Speaker, all instances of hate or violence directed towards minority religious communities. And we have been and are actively engaged with addressing the humanitarian situation in Bangladesh and supporting the interim government to support a peaceful, democratic transition. We are deeply committed to the protection of freedom of religion, and if there is a point at which a statement is appropriate, the government will bring forward one or there will be opportunities for debate and I'm sure colleagues will want to take part in that.
It is true that it was. It meant that the debate went ahead, and it meant that people were able to get into that debate and have their say. But I know from past experience how difficult it is for colleagues to stand up and often tell their personal stories, and I don't think it's the place of this House, if we can manage it, to get to a situation where those stories are not told until 11:00 or half 11 at night. And a wider point, Mr Speaker, I'm I'm drifting somewhat on here.
But a wider point is, you know, is how we use Mondays. At the beginning of the day, there were three big statements, and undoubtedly they took a lot of time out of that. But they were important statements that had to be made. And I think we do need to address that. And we need to think about not just the time for debate, but also the content of debates as well, so that we give those topics the respect that they deserve. I thank him not just for his work on the Backbench Business Committee, but as the Chair of the All Parliamentary All-Party parliamentary Group for British Hindus.
We strongly condemn, Mr Speaker, all instances of hate or violence directed towards minority religious communities. And we have been and are actively engaged with addressing the humanitarian situation in Bangladesh and supporting the interim government to support a peaceful, democratic transition. We are deeply committed to the protection of freedom of religion, and if there is a point at which a statement is appropriate, the government will bring forward one or there will be opportunities for debate and I'm sure colleagues will want to take part in that.
11:34
Sarah Owen MP (Luton North, Labour)
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Sarah Owen MP (Luton North, Labour)
So oh.
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Over a year. Since the tragic murders in my constituency of Julianna Faulkner.
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And her children. Carl and Giselle by their brother. Our town is understandably
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brother. Our town is understandably still shaken by this horrific incident. It came to. Light that the murderer. Was able to obtain.
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Was able to obtain. A gun. With a Ford shotgun licence. The previous Home. Secretary promised a tightening
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Secretary promised a tightening of private arms sales following this tragedy. Can we please have. A debate. Or statement.
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On this and the. Need for a national database for gun licences? Thank you, Mr Speaker. I thank my
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Over a year. Since the tragic murders in my constituency of Julianna Faulkner.
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And her children. Carl and Giselle by their brother. Our town is understandably
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brother. Our town is understandably still shaken by this horrific incident. It came to. Light that the murderer. Was able to obtain.
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Was able to obtain. A gun. With a Ford shotgun licence. The previous Home. Secretary promised a tightening
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Secretary promised a tightening of private arms sales following this tragedy. Can we please have. A debate. Or statement.
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On this and the. Need for a national database for gun licences? Thank you, Mr Speaker. I thank my
11:35
Rt Hon Sir Alan Campbell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Tynemouth, Labour)
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Thank you, Mr Speaker. I thank my honourable friend for raising this important issue. And this was a truly tragic and shocking case. And the government is committed to doing everything that we can to prevent similar incidents. We have introduced tighter controls on firearms licensing to keep people safe and help the police apply the law consistently, and we will be consulting later this year on measures to strengthen the existing controls on shotguns and to improve controls on the private sale of firearms.
And should a debate help that process, Mr Speaker, then I'm sure my honourable friend will be keen to have them.
Rt Hon Sir Alan Campbell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Tynemouth, Labour)
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Thank you, Mr Speaker. I thank my honourable friend for raising this important issue. And this was a truly tragic and shocking case. And the government is committed to doing everything that we can to prevent similar incidents. We have introduced tighter controls on firearms licensing to keep people safe and help the police apply the law consistently, and we will be consulting later this year on measures to strengthen the existing controls on shotguns and to improve controls on the private sale of firearms.
And should a debate help that process, Mr Speaker, then I'm sure my honourable friend will be keen to have them.
11:35
Rt Hon Sir John Hayes MP (South Holland and The Deepings, Conservative)
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Rt Hon Sir John Hayes MP (South Holland and The Deepings, Conservative)
John Hayes you.
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Time. I've seen him across the dispatch box in his new role. Mentioned religious freedom.
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Mentioned religious freedom. allowed. To conceal the. Malevolence of
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To conceal the. Malevolence of Sharia courts, which were operating in places. Across our. Constituencies. Around 85,
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Constituencies. Around 85, indeed, were described as the Western capitals Sharia law, who, though they have. No legitimate.
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No legitimate. Lawful authority, these courts. Are reinforcing all kinds of horrors, including discrimination horrors, including discrimination against women, non-believers, polygamy and other such things. It's time there's a debate from this in time there's a debate from this in the House, but we need to shine a light on this malevolence. Mr
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light on this malevolence. Mr Speaker, the only one law in this country, Mr. Law. That applies to each of us and
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Time. I've seen him across the dispatch box in his new role. Mentioned religious freedom.
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Mentioned religious freedom. allowed. To conceal the. Malevolence of
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To conceal the. Malevolence of Sharia courts, which were operating in places. Across our. Constituencies. Around 85,
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Constituencies. Around 85, indeed, were described as the Western capitals Sharia law, who, though they have. No legitimate.
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No legitimate. Lawful authority, these courts. Are reinforcing all kinds of horrors, including discrimination horrors, including discrimination against women, non-believers, polygamy and other such things. It's time there's a debate from this in time there's a debate from this in the House, but we need to shine a light on this malevolence. Mr
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light on this malevolence. Mr Speaker, the only one law in this country, Mr. Law. That applies to each of us and
11:36
Rt Hon Sir Alan Campbell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Tynemouth, Labour)
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all of us. Yes. Thank you, Mr Speaker. I and the government would agree absolutely government would agree absolutely with the point that the honourable gentleman finished his question on, because the rule of law is sovereign in this country, there is no other law which takes precedence over that. And he's absolutely right in saying what should take precedence. And I'm sure again, that there will be many colleagues who will at least share some of his concerns.
And should he seek a debate, then I'm sure he will have support for that.
Rt Hon Sir Alan Campbell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Tynemouth, Labour)
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all of us. Yes. Thank you, Mr Speaker. I and the government would agree absolutely government would agree absolutely with the point that the honourable gentleman finished his question on, because the rule of law is sovereign in this country, there is no other law which takes precedence over that. And he's absolutely right in saying what should take precedence. And I'm sure again, that there will be many colleagues who will at least share some of his concerns.
And should he seek a debate, then I'm sure he will have support for that.
11:37
Peter Dowd MP (Bootle, Labour)
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Peter Dowd MP (Bootle, Labour)
Peter Dunne.
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Chairs, can. I say what a wonderful job. You do in this chamber?
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You do in this chamber? Thank you. Mr. Mr Speaker. I wonder if the. Government will set aside some
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Government will set aside some time to. Debate an. Issue of concern to me. As to why National.
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As to why National. Highways have declined to replace. A bridge on virtually the busiest road in.
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Merseyside, leading down. To the Liverpool Port on the A5 or three six Park Lane, which has or three six Park Lane, which has 40,000 vehicles a day going down at peak time. It's considerable and I'm peak time. It's considerable and I'm just concerned that we need to tease out why national highways are felt inappropriate to replace a bridge inappropriate to replace a bridge with a school, a church, a day centre, a hotel, a shopping centre
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Chairs, can. I say what a wonderful job. You do in this chamber?
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You do in this chamber? Thank you. Mr. Mr Speaker. I wonder if the. Government will set aside some
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Government will set aside some time to. Debate an. Issue of concern to me. As to why National.
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As to why National. Highways have declined to replace. A bridge on virtually the busiest road in.
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Merseyside, leading down. To the Liverpool Port on the A5 or three six Park Lane, which has or three six Park Lane, which has 40,000 vehicles a day going down at peak time. It's considerable and I'm peak time. It's considerable and I'm just concerned that we need to tease out why national highways are felt inappropriate to replace a bridge inappropriate to replace a bridge with a school, a church, a day centre, a hotel, a shopping centre
11:38
Rt Hon Sir Alan Campbell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Tynemouth, Labour)
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all nearby. That's a concern and I think we need to debate that. Now. Thank you, Mr Speaker. I
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Now. Thank you, Mr Speaker. I will make sure that transport ministers have heard what my hon. Friend has said, but I'm confident that National Highways will also have heard what he has said. Should that not produce the action which he is demanding, then there are ways to raise this in this House, debate.
Rt Hon Sir Alan Campbell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Tynemouth, Labour)
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all nearby. That's a concern and I think we need to debate that. Now. Thank you, Mr Speaker. I
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Now. Thank you, Mr Speaker. I will make sure that transport ministers have heard what my hon. Friend has said, but I'm confident that National Highways will also have heard what he has said. Should that not produce the action which he is demanding, then there are ways to raise this in this House, debate.
11:38
Gill Furniss MP (Sheffield Brightside and Hillsborough, Labour)
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Gill Furniss MP (Sheffield Brightside and Hillsborough, Labour)
Thank you Gill Furniss. Sheffield Young Carers Action Group and some of the wonderful people that they support. I myself was in carer and know the deep impact this can have on a young life. During our meeting, these children told me about their mental health struggles as a result of their responsibilities, but they have limited access to counselling even when they have been able to get mental health support. They felt that the service did not understand specific challenges that they face.
Well, the Leader of the House confirmed that mental health must be a key component of a ten year health plan and a long time in Parliament to debate the challenges faced by young carers. young carers.
Well, the Leader of the House confirmed that mental health must be a key component of a ten year health plan and a long time in Parliament to debate the challenges faced by young carers. young carers.
11:39
Rt Hon Sir Alan Campbell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Tynemouth, Labour)
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Rt Hon Sir Alan Campbell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Tynemouth, Labour)
Thank you, Mr Speaker. I want to take this opportunity to pay tribute to young carers who do a fantastic and very difficult job at times, and I think some of us would wonder how we would cope in those circumstances. But I also want to pay tribute to my honourable friend who has worked tirelessly, not just on this issue, but on other issues for her constituents. I can confirm that mental health is a key component of our ten year health plan.
Setting out how we will work with schools really important, and with colleges to identify and meet the mental health needs of all children and young people, including Mr Speaker at Young Carers. This will make an excellent topic, I think, for a debate, and I would encourage my hon. Friend to apply for one Jess Brown-Fuller.
Setting out how we will work with schools really important, and with colleges to identify and meet the mental health needs of all children and young people, including Mr Speaker at Young Carers. This will make an excellent topic, I think, for a debate, and I would encourage my hon. Friend to apply for one Jess Brown-Fuller.
11:39
Jess Brown-Fuller MP (Chichester, Liberal Democrat)
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Jess Brown-Fuller MP (Chichester, Liberal Democrat)
Thank you, Mr Speaker. The Havant Thicket Reservoir, just outside of my constituency of Chichester, is the first reservoir. That's been built in 30 years and is a welcome investment into the South East, which is designated as water stressed. But it's also the proposed site of an effluent recycling scheme, the first time that this has been used to supplement drinking water in the UK. With confidence in southern water at an all time low, will the Leader of the House make time for a debate on water recycling schemes and reservoirs?
11:40
Rt Hon Sir Alan Campbell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Tynemouth, Labour)
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Rt Hon Sir Alan Campbell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Tynemouth, Labour)
Mr Speaker, it may be the first reservoir in 30 years, but we're committed to making sure that it's not the last reservoir in 30 years because our our crumbling infrastructure that we were left, Mr Speaker, is an absolutely important putting that right as an absolutely important part of growth, which is the priority of this government. I will draw her. I kind of comment specifically on what she said, but I will draw that to the attention of Defra ministers.
She may seek either to raise that in questions or even a meeting with ministers, or indeed to call for a debate on this. Jerusalem Mr Speaker, the Leader of the House Mr Speaker, the Leader of the House will be aware that 2027 marks the 11 hundredth. Anniversary of the hundredth. Anniversary of the unification. Of England. Under King Athelstan and proposals.
She may seek either to raise that in questions or even a meeting with ministers, or indeed to call for a debate on this. Jerusalem Mr Speaker, the Leader of the House Mr Speaker, the Leader of the House will be aware that 2027 marks the 11 hundredth. Anniversary of the hundredth. Anniversary of the unification. Of England. Under King Athelstan and proposals.
11:41
Andrew Rosindell MP (Romford, Conservative)
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Andrew Rosindell MP (Romford, Conservative)
Put forward by the Royal Society.
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July, 2027. So will he. Make time for a debate. On such a great, momentous.
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Occasion for our country? But will he also join, Mr Speaker, in celebrating Essex. Day.
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Day. On the 26th of October? And thank you, Mr Speaker, for ensuring that the flag of. Essex will be.
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the flag of. Essex will be. Flown from the. Palace of Westminster for. The first time ever. And I hope
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The first time ever. And I hope the Leader of the House will ensure. That under the new local. Government. Reorganisation.
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Reorganisation. Historic counties. And ceremonial counties will be put together so we can celebrate our true county
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July, 2027. So will he. Make time for a debate. On such a great, momentous.
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Occasion for our country? But will he also join, Mr Speaker, in celebrating Essex. Day.
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Day. On the 26th of October? And thank you, Mr Speaker, for ensuring that the flag of. Essex will be.
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the flag of. Essex will be. Flown from the. Palace of Westminster for. The first time ever. And I hope
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The first time ever. And I hope the Leader of the House will ensure. That under the new local. Government. Reorganisation.
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Reorganisation. Historic counties. And ceremonial counties will be put together so we can celebrate our true county
11:41
Rt Hon Sir Alan Campbell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Tynemouth, Labour)
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identity. I was aware of the anniversary because I think the honourable gentleman had raised it. He thought gentleman had raised it. He thought rather cruelly. My colleague sitting next to me says that I was there. That's not true. That's simply that simply isn't true. Mr Speaker, I'm sure when the time arises, it will be an appropriate opportunity to have a debate in this House, because we should be very proud of our national identity and we should celebrate it. And when an anniversary like this comes along, we should seize it with both hands.
In terms of Essex, I wish it all the very best. Again, it's not just about being proud of your nation, it is also being proud of your region and your town in terms of devolution and where we will end up with that. Mr Speaker, that is for another day as the devolution bill comes through this House. And I'm not going to speculate about the future at this moment. The future of counties, either historic or not as historic.
Rt Hon Sir Alan Campbell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Tynemouth, Labour)
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identity. I was aware of the anniversary because I think the honourable gentleman had raised it. He thought gentleman had raised it. He thought rather cruelly. My colleague sitting next to me says that I was there. That's not true. That's simply that simply isn't true. Mr Speaker, I'm sure when the time arises, it will be an appropriate opportunity to have a debate in this House, because we should be very proud of our national identity and we should celebrate it. And when an anniversary like this comes along, we should seize it with both hands.
In terms of Essex, I wish it all the very best. Again, it's not just about being proud of your nation, it is also being proud of your region and your town in terms of devolution and where we will end up with that. Mr Speaker, that is for another day as the devolution bill comes through this House. And I'm not going to speculate about the future at this moment. The future of counties, either historic or not as historic.
11:42
Julia Buckley MP (Shrewsbury, Labour)
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Julia Buckley MP (Shrewsbury, Labour)
Julia Buckley. Leader of the House join with me in welcoming this week's record investment into flooded communities and ensure that our local community volunteers such as the Shrewsbury Quarry, Minster Lee and Coal and Flood Action Groups are supported as per the recommendation in this week's published Environment Audit Committee Flood Resilience Report.
11:43
Rt Hon Sir Alan Campbell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Tynemouth, Labour)
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Rt Hon Sir Alan Campbell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Tynemouth, Labour)
Thank you. to my honourable friend who was doing a fantastic job on behalf of her constituents, and I will join her in paying tribute to flood action groups like the one in her constituency. Because we talk, as I will in a moment about the investment that goes into flood schemes and the importance of that investment, but actually flood action groups are play an absolutely crucial role in our communities. I also want to join my honourable friend in celebrating the investment that the government is making.
We inherited flood assets in their poorest condition on record, and we're investing a record £10.5 billion through to 2036, benefiting almost a million properties. But we should celebrate groups, community
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groups, which, as I said, are very plan. To come. Mr Speaker.
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Mr Speaker. Can I associate myself, first of all, briefly with the comments regarding Campbell? Milne was a regarding Campbell? Milne was a friend and a mentor to me for 42 years, and I would have want to take years, and I would have want to take part in the tributes, but I was with the Select Committee in Brussels and knowing his commitment to the
We inherited flood assets in their poorest condition on record, and we're investing a record £10.5 billion through to 2036, benefiting almost a million properties. But we should celebrate groups, community
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groups, which, as I said, are very plan. To come. Mr Speaker.
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Mr Speaker. Can I associate myself, first of all, briefly with the comments regarding Campbell? Milne was a regarding Campbell? Milne was a friend and a mentor to me for 42 years, and I would have want to take years, and I would have want to take part in the tributes, but I was with the Select Committee in Brussels and knowing his commitment to the
11:44
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knowing his commitment to the European ideal, I was pretty sure that was where he wanted me to stay. Mr Speaker, might we have a statement from the Telecommunications Minister in relation to the resilience of links relation to the resilience of links to island communities? For the second time this year, hundreds of my constituents in Shetland are my constituents in Shetland are being left without service as a consequence of the breach of the CFR consequence of the breach of the CFR cable.
This time it is going to last for four weeks. It is a colossal failure of customer service and a failure of customer service and a failure of regulation. I am now inviting all the parties together to come to Shetland for a resilience come to Shetland for a resilience forum next month. Will the Minister speak to his colleagues in the Department to ensure that we will Department to ensure that we will get government cooperation to hold this? this?
This time it is going to last for four weeks. It is a colossal failure of customer service and a failure of customer service and a failure of regulation. I am now inviting all the parties together to come to Shetland for a resilience come to Shetland for a resilience forum next month. Will the Minister speak to his colleagues in the Department to ensure that we will Department to ensure that we will get government cooperation to hold this? this?
11:45
Rt Hon Alistair Carmichael MP (Orkney and Shetland, Liberal Democrat)
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Rt Hon Alistair Carmichael MP (Orkney and Shetland, Liberal Democrat)
Mr Speaker, it's hard to overestimate the importance of the transport links that the honourable gentleman is talking about to communities like his. And he's, as ever, an assiduous supporter of his communities. I will draw that to the attention of the appropriate department. I wish him well in bringing together the bodies necessary to, to make these decisions, not just for now, but into the future as well, and to get some certainty.
11:45
Uma Kumaran MP (Stratford and Bow, Labour)
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Uma Kumaran MP (Stratford and Bow, Labour)
Of campaigning, public meetings.
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A. Day. Of action outside Ladies. Walk and scrutinising. Dudley Council. I am delighted.
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I am delighted. That Ladies Walk sent in. Sedgley, a. Vital community. Hub providing. NHS and library
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Hub providing. NHS and library services will. Remain open. Yeah.
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This is a this is a. Victory for. Local residents who. Rightly oppose Dudley. Near closure of this. Site, despite.
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Site, despite. lease. Five years ago. Will the. Leader welcome this news and
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A. Day. Of action outside Ladies. Walk and scrutinising. Dudley Council. I am delighted.
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I am delighted. That Ladies Walk sent in. Sedgley, a. Vital community. Hub providing. NHS and library
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Hub providing. NHS and library services will. Remain open. Yeah.
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This is a this is a. Victory for. Local residents who. Rightly oppose Dudley. Near closure of this. Site, despite.
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Site, despite. lease. Five years ago. Will the. Leader welcome this news and
11:46
Rt Hon Sir Alan Campbell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Tynemouth, Labour)
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Leader welcome this news and transparency? Yeah.
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Yeah. Mr Speaker, I'm very pleased to hear about her constituents successful campaign for a much loved successful campaign for a much loved community asset. And I know and they will recognise that she is a true champion of their interests and of their local community. There have already been references to and dare I say, I anticipate more today about the importance of community and community assets, and I would encourage members to join together, perhaps, and to look at a backbench business debate so that they can raise issues pertinent to this.
Rt Hon Sir Alan Campbell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Tynemouth, Labour)
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Leader welcome this news and transparency? Yeah.
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Yeah. Mr Speaker, I'm very pleased to hear about her constituents successful campaign for a much loved successful campaign for a much loved community asset. And I know and they will recognise that she is a true champion of their interests and of their local community. There have already been references to and dare I say, I anticipate more today about the importance of community and community assets, and I would encourage members to join together, perhaps, and to look at a backbench business debate so that they can raise issues pertinent to this.
11:46
Rt Hon Wendy Morton MP (Aldridge-Brownhills, Conservative)
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Rt Hon Wendy Morton MP (Aldridge-Brownhills, Conservative)
Thank you. wants to impose on the Walsall borough. And in Aldridge-Brownhills, we're not only fighting to protect our precious green spaces in our green belt, but we're now find ourselves threatened by this term, a new regulation grey belt. So can we have a debate? Mr Speaker, in government time around the need for us to urgently protect our precious green spaces, our communities, our countryside and our food security?
11:47
Rt Hon Sir Alan Campbell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Tynemouth, Labour)
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Rt Hon Sir Alan Campbell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Tynemouth, Labour)
Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker. I'm informed that the changes we're planning. Sorry, proposing for the planning framework actually do that. But I would just point out to the honourable gentleman, Honourable lady, it is a matter of a balance here because I am a firm defender of matters environmental. However, you know, housing is so. Important on all sorts of levels. People need somewhere to live. We've been left with a situation where there's just not enough housing, particularly affordable housing.
So difficult decisions have to be made because quite frankly, some previous governments failed to make those decisions. Furthermore, housing is not just important in providing places for somewhere to live, but it's absolutely crucial for growth in the economy. And without growth in the economy, we're not going to be able to rescue those public services that were left in a terrible state at the end of the last Conservative government, so I'm sure there will be a great deal of concern. And I genuinely understand why people are concerned.
I have a number of houses being built as almost as I speak in my constituency. I do understand that, but it is a sense of balance and politicians have a responsibility not just to join the protest, but actually to make the case as to why we need more houses.
So difficult decisions have to be made because quite frankly, some previous governments failed to make those decisions. Furthermore, housing is not just important in providing places for somewhere to live, but it's absolutely crucial for growth in the economy. And without growth in the economy, we're not going to be able to rescue those public services that were left in a terrible state at the end of the last Conservative government, so I'm sure there will be a great deal of concern. And I genuinely understand why people are concerned.
I have a number of houses being built as almost as I speak in my constituency. I do understand that, but it is a sense of balance and politicians have a responsibility not just to join the protest, but actually to make the case as to why we need more houses.
11:48
Ian Lavery MP (Blyth and Ashington, Labour)
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Ian Lavery MP (Blyth and Ashington, Labour)
Labour. news. Q2 yes, on investing £10 billion in a state of the art data centre in Camas in my constituency, because I will undoubtedly shape the economy and society in workplaces for decades to come. It's also very exciting that the government have announced my consultants would be part of an AI IT group soon. Hold an AI national conference in Northern Ireland early next year to share our views and unite our voices. Who about the shape a fair future for all.
I've invited the Secretary of State to attend. Will my right honourable friend agree? It's necessary to bring along businesses. It's necessary to involve trade unions. It's necessary to involve leaders of the community and residents themselves. With that in mind, will he agree to discuss to a debate? To discuss what I actually means for the future of constituencies like mine in Blyth and Ashington, and how work in people will not be left behind?
I've invited the Secretary of State to attend. Will my right honourable friend agree? It's necessary to bring along businesses. It's necessary to involve trade unions. It's necessary to involve leaders of the community and residents themselves. With that in mind, will he agree to discuss to a debate? To discuss what I actually means for the future of constituencies like mine in Blyth and Ashington, and how work in people will not be left behind?
11:49
Rt Hon Sir Alan Campbell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Tynemouth, Labour)
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Rt Hon Sir Alan Campbell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Tynemouth, Labour)
Leader.
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I wish my honourable friends I National Conference well. I hope that ministers have listened to his that ministers have listened to his request for attendance and support, and I'm sure they will look to see and I'm sure they will look to see whether that is possible. He's absolutely right when he says that business is crucial to this. And also members across the also members across the organisations, across the community to make this a success. But to make this a success.
But typically, Mr Speaker, from the my honourable friend. He has hit the nail right on the head actually, nail right on the head actually, which is AI is the way forward. There is no doubt about that, that it is crucial to the economy that we it is crucial to the economy that we seek to build. However, it's got to be a fair economy. It's got to work not just for some people, but for not just for some people, but for everyone. And I share his concern about not about the new jobs coming in, because that's understandably in, because that's understandably good news.
But for some of the communities that he has, he represents. And I know his represents. And I know his constituency pretty well, Mr Speaker, that they are the beneficiaries of AI as well. I'm beneficiaries of AI as well. I'm sure there will be lots of interest in any backbench business debate, whether he wants to call one sooner,
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I wish my honourable friends I National Conference well. I hope that ministers have listened to his that ministers have listened to his request for attendance and support, and I'm sure they will look to see and I'm sure they will look to see whether that is possible. He's absolutely right when he says that business is crucial to this. And also members across the also members across the organisations, across the community to make this a success. But to make this a success.
But typically, Mr Speaker, from the my honourable friend. He has hit the nail right on the head actually, nail right on the head actually, which is AI is the way forward. There is no doubt about that, that it is crucial to the economy that we it is crucial to the economy that we seek to build. However, it's got to be a fair economy. It's got to work not just for some people, but for not just for some people, but for everyone. And I share his concern about not about the new jobs coming in, because that's understandably in, because that's understandably good news.
But for some of the communities that he has, he represents. And I know his represents. And I know his constituency pretty well, Mr Speaker, that they are the beneficiaries of AI as well. I'm beneficiaries of AI as well. I'm sure there will be lots of interest in any backbench business debate, whether he wants to call one sooner,
11:51
Richard Tice MP (Boston and Skegness, Reform UK)
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whether he wants to call one sooner, or whether he wants to come back and report on the success of his conference ties. Thank you, Mr Speaker. Three weeks. Ago today, I met.
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Ago today, I met. The. Governor. Of the Bank. Of England. To discuss.
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The important decisions around tightening. And the governor. Agreed with me that this is actually a fiscal. Matter, and it's triggering.
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Matter, and it's triggering. Tens of billions. Of losses. Every year to. The taxpayer. And therefore. The governor would. Welcome more input.
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Welcome more input. From the Houses. Of. Parliament on this important matter. And so I wrote to The matter. And so I wrote to The Chancellor and copied in the leader requesting a debate before the budget, because if this House had a debate and voted on a different debate and voted on a different decision to guide the governor of the Monetary Policy Committee, it would actually help The Chancellor
Richard Tice MP (Boston and Skegness, Reform UK)
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whether he wants to call one sooner, or whether he wants to come back and report on the success of his conference ties. Thank you, Mr Speaker. Three weeks. Ago today, I met.
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Ago today, I met. The. Governor. Of the Bank. Of England. To discuss.
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The important decisions around tightening. And the governor. Agreed with me that this is actually a fiscal. Matter, and it's triggering.
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Matter, and it's triggering. Tens of billions. Of losses. Every year to. The taxpayer. And therefore. The governor would. Welcome more input.
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Welcome more input. From the Houses. Of. Parliament on this important matter. And so I wrote to The matter. And so I wrote to The Chancellor and copied in the leader requesting a debate before the budget, because if this House had a debate and voted on a different debate and voted on a different decision to guide the governor of the Monetary Policy Committee, it would actually help The Chancellor
11:51
Rt Hon Sir Alan Campbell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Tynemouth, Labour)
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would actually help The Chancellor in her difficult decisions around the budget. Thank you, Mr Speaker. I'm sure
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Thank you, Mr Speaker. I'm sure the honourable gentleman is trying to be helpful, so I'll take him at his word. In terms of a debate on his word. In terms of a debate on these matters, he raises important, important points. I would suggest that he should be the one calling for the debate. If there is to be discussion around economic policy in the run up to the budget, then there are various avenues in which he can call for that and make the points that it isn't unusual in this situation where we are a number of weeks away from the budget, but The Chancellor is working extraordinarily hard to come up with a budget that not only repairs the damage to our economy that we inherited, but to put forward a plan for the future.
And therefore, to some extent, I think the ball is in his court. Should he seek a debate? his court. Should he seek a debate?
Rt Hon Sir Alan Campbell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Tynemouth, Labour)
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would actually help The Chancellor in her difficult decisions around the budget. Thank you, Mr Speaker. I'm sure
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Thank you, Mr Speaker. I'm sure the honourable gentleman is trying to be helpful, so I'll take him at his word. In terms of a debate on his word. In terms of a debate on these matters, he raises important, important points. I would suggest that he should be the one calling for the debate. If there is to be discussion around economic policy in the run up to the budget, then there are various avenues in which he can call for that and make the points that it isn't unusual in this situation where we are a number of weeks away from the budget, but The Chancellor is working extraordinarily hard to come up with a budget that not only repairs the damage to our economy that we inherited, but to put forward a plan for the future.
And therefore, to some extent, I think the ball is in his court. Should he seek a debate? his court. Should he seek a debate?
11:52
Sarah Smith MP (Hyndburn, Labour)
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Sarah Smith MP (Hyndburn, Labour)
Sarah Smith. Thank you.
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To. Highly high quality residential care close. To home is essential for the dignity and well-being of our.
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dignity and well-being of our. Elderly constituents? Because in. Clayton. The Moors, the reform led Lancashire County Council.
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Lancashire County Council. Is consulting on the future of Woodlands Care Home, causing deep concern to residents. Their families. And the incredible. Staff.
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Staff. Providing no information on what they might do. If they were to close the home. Will the leader of the.
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Will the leader of the. House join me in in urging the council to keep Woodlands Care Home open? Leader.
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To. Highly high quality residential care close. To home is essential for the dignity and well-being of our.
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dignity and well-being of our. Elderly constituents? Because in. Clayton. The Moors, the reform led Lancashire County Council.
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Lancashire County Council. Is consulting on the future of Woodlands Care Home, causing deep concern to residents. Their families. And the incredible. Staff.
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Staff. Providing no information on what they might do. If they were to close the home. Will the leader of the.
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Will the leader of the. House join me in in urging the council to keep Woodlands Care Home open? Leader.
11:53
Rt Hon Sir Alan Campbell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Tynemouth, Labour)
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Leader. Thank you, Mr Speaker. I absolutely agree with my honourable friend. We know either from friend. We know either from constituency cases or indeed from our own family circumstances, that it can be extremely distressing for residents and families who need as much notice as possible. Should a situation like the closure of a home become a possibility. Unfortunately, in the circumstances that she describes, I'm afraid this is not untypical when it comes to reforming government who have offered and are generally underachieving.
This is a matter for local authorities, but she may wish to raise this at health she may wish to raise this at health and Social Care Orals on Tuesday next week.
Rt Hon Sir Alan Campbell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Tynemouth, Labour)
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Leader. Thank you, Mr Speaker. I absolutely agree with my honourable friend. We know either from friend. We know either from constituency cases or indeed from our own family circumstances, that it can be extremely distressing for residents and families who need as much notice as possible. Should a situation like the closure of a home become a possibility. Unfortunately, in the circumstances that she describes, I'm afraid this is not untypical when it comes to reforming government who have offered and are generally underachieving.
This is a matter for local authorities, but she may wish to raise this at health she may wish to raise this at health and Social Care Orals on Tuesday next week.
11:53
Mike Wood MP (Kingswinford and South Staffordshire, Conservative)
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Mike Wood MP (Kingswinford and South Staffordshire, Conservative)
Mike Wood Deputy Speaker.
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On 14th. March, my. Constituents Sue and Dave Evans lost. Their 18 year.
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Old son, who was the passenger. In a car being driven. By. Newly qualified driver.
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Yesterday, Sue and Dave were in Parliament with. The Road piece charity. Calling for. Graduated driving. Licensing to.
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Licensing to. Save other families from the. Devastation of. Losing loved ones. In a.
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Preventable accident. So when can we. Expect. The government to bring forward. A road.
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A road. Safety bill so that this House consider proposals to reduce deaths
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On 14th. March, my. Constituents Sue and Dave Evans lost. Their 18 year.
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Old son, who was the passenger. In a car being driven. By. Newly qualified driver.
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Yesterday, Sue and Dave were in Parliament with. The Road piece charity. Calling for. Graduated driving. Licensing to.
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Licensing to. Save other families from the. Devastation of. Losing loved ones. In a.
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Preventable accident. So when can we. Expect. The government to bring forward. A road.
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A road. Safety bill so that this House consider proposals to reduce deaths
11:54
Rt Hon Sir Alan Campbell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Tynemouth, Labour)
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consider proposals to reduce deaths caused by newly qualified drivers? Leave you? Madam Deputy Speaker,
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Leave you? Madam Deputy Speaker, the honourable gentleman raises this matter with the tone and the respect matter with the tone and the respect that it's come to be associated with him, and I thank him for that. And I also. Respect to the family concerned. It is unbelievable tragedy when this happens. It happens far too often, which is why the government is focussed on this. And work is underway to deliver an updated strategic framework for road safety.
And that will be the first one in over a decade. And the aim will be, quite simply, to reduce road deaths and injuries. And I will ensure that the honourable gentleman receives an update on that work.
Rt Hon Sir Alan Campbell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Tynemouth, Labour)
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consider proposals to reduce deaths caused by newly qualified drivers? Leave you? Madam Deputy Speaker,
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Leave you? Madam Deputy Speaker, the honourable gentleman raises this matter with the tone and the respect matter with the tone and the respect that it's come to be associated with him, and I thank him for that. And I also. Respect to the family concerned. It is unbelievable tragedy when this happens. It happens far too often, which is why the government is focussed on this. And work is underway to deliver an updated strategic framework for road safety.
And that will be the first one in over a decade. And the aim will be, quite simply, to reduce road deaths and injuries. And I will ensure that the honourable gentleman receives an update on that work.
11:55
Euan Stainbank MP (Falkirk, Labour)
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Euan Stainbank MP (Falkirk, Labour)
You and Steve.
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Attended a graduation for Stem students at Fort Valley College. This college is a crucial educational asset and vital to plans educational asset and vital to plans to re industrialise our area. However, due to a 20% cut in funding to the college sector since the SNP took their fourth term in 2021, Fourth. Of College recently proposed closing their alma campus. Does the closing their alma campus. Does the leader agree with me that instead of causing colleges to consider closure, the Scottish Government should be backing all routes for
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Attended a graduation for Stem students at Fort Valley College. This college is a crucial educational asset and vital to plans educational asset and vital to plans to re industrialise our area. However, due to a 20% cut in funding to the college sector since the SNP took their fourth term in 2021, Fourth. Of College recently proposed closing their alma campus. Does the closing their alma campus. Does the leader agree with me that instead of causing colleges to consider closure, the Scottish Government should be backing all routes for
11:55
Rt Hon Sir Alan Campbell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Tynemouth, Labour)
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should be backing all routes for young people to train, learn and succeed here? Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker, I want to send my congratulations to all those graduating from Forth Valley College and thank my hon. Will friend for raising this matter. He's a great advocate for his constituency. This government has delivered the biggest budget settlement for Scottish and Scottish Government in the history of devolution, and he will know that education and skills policy is devolved. But I hope that ministers in the Scottish Government have heard his concern, and I hope that they give as much attention and priority to the matter of colleges in the work that they do.
Is this government here is determined to do.
Rt Hon Sir Alan Campbell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Tynemouth, Labour)
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should be backing all routes for young people to train, learn and succeed here? Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker, I want to send my congratulations to all those graduating from Forth Valley College and thank my hon. Will friend for raising this matter. He's a great advocate for his constituency. This government has delivered the biggest budget settlement for Scottish and Scottish Government in the history of devolution, and he will know that education and skills policy is devolved. But I hope that ministers in the Scottish Government have heard his concern, and I hope that they give as much attention and priority to the matter of colleges in the work that they do.
Is this government here is determined to do.
11:56
Claire Young MP (Thornbury and Yate, Liberal Democrat)
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Claire Young MP (Thornbury and Yate, Liberal Democrat)
Claire.
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School in Thornbury for the great school lunch, which raises the awareness of. The.
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The. Benefits of healthy, nutritious school meals. There's real concern that the funding for both school lunches and breakfast clubs is not lunches and breakfast clubs is not enough to cover the cost of providing them, particularly putting pressure on school budgets, particularly in constituencies like particularly in constituencies like mine, where the schools are among the lowest funded in the country. So will the Leader of the House agree to raise this issue with The Chancellor ahead of the autumn budget to ensure that underfunded before.
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School in Thornbury for the great school lunch, which raises the awareness of. The.
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The. Benefits of healthy, nutritious school meals. There's real concern that the funding for both school lunches and breakfast clubs is not lunches and breakfast clubs is not enough to cover the cost of providing them, particularly putting pressure on school budgets, particularly in constituencies like particularly in constituencies like mine, where the schools are among the lowest funded in the country. So will the Leader of the House agree to raise this issue with The Chancellor ahead of the autumn budget to ensure that underfunded before.
11:56
11:57
Rt Hon Sir Alan Campbell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Tynemouth, Labour)
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contributions are short and. The leader can I ask? That is on point as well. Leader. Of course you can.
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Of course you can. Ask. There are 750 schools so far that are offer free breakfast clubs that are offer free breakfast clubs and that puts on average £450 a year into the back into parents pockets. And we intend to extend free school meals to, I understand areas where they believe that this may not be enough, or that other areas or better off, I will draw it to the attention of The Chancellor. But so can the Honourable lady should Treasury questions emerge.
Rt Hon Sir Alan Campbell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Tynemouth, Labour)
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contributions are short and. The leader can I ask? That is on point as well. Leader. Of course you can.
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Of course you can. Ask. There are 750 schools so far that are offer free breakfast clubs that are offer free breakfast clubs and that puts on average £450 a year into the back into parents pockets. And we intend to extend free school meals to, I understand areas where they believe that this may not be enough, or that other areas or better off, I will draw it to the attention of The Chancellor. But so can the Honourable lady should Treasury questions emerge.
11:57
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Thank you, Madam Speaker. Is it? Yes.
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Yes it is to speak. Carry on. No one sat. Down.
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Down. For me. October marks. Breast Cancer. Awareness Month, and in my
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constituency of Doncaster East and the Isle of Axholme. The town. Of Bawtry. Is once. Again painting the town. Pink. To help raise awareness.
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To help raise awareness. This year they've launched their. Own. Legally Blonde inspired band and check to. Remind everyone to. Take.
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Take. Charge of checking their own. Breast health. To support the calls with the leader of the.
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Yes it is to speak. Carry on. No one sat. Down.
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Down. For me. October marks. Breast Cancer. Awareness Month, and in my
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constituency of Doncaster East and the Isle of Axholme. The town. Of Bawtry. Is once. Again painting the town. Pink. To help raise awareness.
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To help raise awareness. This year they've launched their. Own. Legally Blonde inspired band and check to. Remind everyone to. Take.
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Take. Charge of checking their own. Breast health. To support the calls with the leader of the.
11:58
Rt Hon Sir Alan Campbell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Tynemouth, Labour)
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House, join me. In wishing the team of Visit Bawtry the very best. Of luck in raising money for. Breast cancer now.
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Thank you, Madam Speaker. I will. Madam Deputy Speaker, join my friend in wishing visit. Bawtry team success in raising money Bawtry team success in raising money for such an important cause. We know that early diagnosis is vital, which is why we're upgrading 30 testing centres across the country with the latest digital eye to catch breast to catch cancer early. And I support local initiatives like the one that he's talking about.
Rt Hon Sir Alan Campbell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Tynemouth, Labour)
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House, join me. In wishing the team of Visit Bawtry the very best. Of luck in raising money for. Breast cancer now.
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Thank you, Madam Speaker. I will. Madam Deputy Speaker, join my friend in wishing visit. Bawtry team success in raising money Bawtry team success in raising money for such an important cause. We know that early diagnosis is vital, which is why we're upgrading 30 testing centres across the country with the latest digital eye to catch breast to catch cancer early. And I support local initiatives like the one that he's talking about.
11:58
Rt Hon David Mundell MP (Dumfriesshire, Clydesdale and Tweeddale, Conservative)
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Rt Hon David Mundell MP (Dumfriesshire, Clydesdale and Tweeddale, Conservative)
David Mundell. and can I welcome the right honourable gentleman to his post and
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also my athletic constituency neighbour to his. Today. Madam Deputy Speaker.
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At. 2 p.m. There will be a protest in Moffat by campaigners who are making a last ditch attempt to are making a last ditch attempt to save the local Bank of Scotland branch, and I commend them on their efforts. It was one of five branches efforts. It was one of five branches to be closed in my constituency this year. Does the Leader of the House
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year. Does the Leader of the House agree with me that if banks can't be persuaded not to abandon the high street, that they should. At the.
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Very least ensure that their premises are provided for community use going forward? And therefore, in
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use going forward? And therefore, in the case of the Peebles branch, does he agree that they should look favourably on the offer. By the.
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also my athletic constituency neighbour to his. Today. Madam Deputy Speaker.
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At. 2 p.m. There will be a protest in Moffat by campaigners who are making a last ditch attempt to are making a last ditch attempt to save the local Bank of Scotland branch, and I commend them on their efforts. It was one of five branches efforts. It was one of five branches to be closed in my constituency this year. Does the Leader of the House
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year. Does the Leader of the House agree with me that if banks can't be persuaded not to abandon the high street, that they should. At the.
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Very least ensure that their premises are provided for community use going forward? And therefore, in
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use going forward? And therefore, in the case of the Peebles branch, does he agree that they should look favourably on the offer. By the.
11:59
Rt Hon Sir Alan Campbell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Tynemouth, Labour)
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By the. Peebles Community Trust for that branch leader? Madam Deputy Speaker, I do agree with him because in-person banking is important to our local communities. In fact, I have a home opening in my constituency in Whitley Bay in about ten days time. That's cold comfort for the people of Moffat. I do understand that, but we are opening our bank, seeing banking hubs rolled out across the country. I think banks have a responsibility, actually, and I think the best banks actually look at their responsibility to continue to have a branch presence, should they not? I think they've got an obligation to work with others to make sure that there is access to a banking.
And I would also say that the Scottish Government has its own community right to buy policy, which you may wish to look at as part of any campaign for purchase of a community hub. And next week in Westminster Hall, there's a debate on financial inclusion. He may wish to amplify his point.
Rt Hon Sir Alan Campbell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Tynemouth, Labour)
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By the. Peebles Community Trust for that branch leader? Madam Deputy Speaker, I do agree with him because in-person banking is important to our local communities. In fact, I have a home opening in my constituency in Whitley Bay in about ten days time. That's cold comfort for the people of Moffat. I do understand that, but we are opening our bank, seeing banking hubs rolled out across the country. I think banks have a responsibility, actually, and I think the best banks actually look at their responsibility to continue to have a branch presence, should they not? I think they've got an obligation to work with others to make sure that there is access to a banking.
And I would also say that the Scottish Government has its own community right to buy policy, which you may wish to look at as part of any campaign for purchase of a community hub. And next week in Westminster Hall, there's a debate on financial inclusion. He may wish to amplify his point.
12:00
Gareth Thomas MP (Harrow West, Labour )
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Gareth Thomas MP (Harrow West, Labour )
Then Gareth Thomas.
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Gaza's health care. System has been decimated. welcomes. The ceasefire. Fragile as.
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It is. The release. Of hostages, and. That aid is beginning to increase somewhat. But will my right somewhat. But will my right honourable friend consider the case for a debate on the steps that Britain could take to support the
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rebuilding of Gaza's. Hospitals. So that the most innocent in this awful conflict, children can at
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Gaza's health care. System has been decimated. welcomes. The ceasefire. Fragile as.
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It is. The release. Of hostages, and. That aid is beginning to increase somewhat. But will my right somewhat. But will my right honourable friend consider the case for a debate on the steps that Britain could take to support the
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rebuilding of Gaza's. Hospitals. So that the most innocent in this awful conflict, children can at
12:00
Rt Hon Sir Alan Campbell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Tynemouth, Labour)
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awful conflict, children can at least begin to get the health care support they so desperately need. Madam Deputy Speaker, he raises an important question and makes a an important question and makes a really important point. As the Foreign Secretary has said, the ceasefire does give an opportunity not just to scale up aid, but to look at the future of Gaza's recovery. And an important part of that is health care for children, because they deserve a better future than they are currently having.
We're actively supporting rebuilding of Gaza's health care system, and we will update the House on measures that we are taking. We have brought forward debates, but also statements on these matters, and we will continue to do so.
Rt Hon Sir Alan Campbell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Tynemouth, Labour)
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awful conflict, children can at least begin to get the health care support they so desperately need. Madam Deputy Speaker, he raises an important question and makes a an important question and makes a really important point. As the Foreign Secretary has said, the ceasefire does give an opportunity not just to scale up aid, but to look at the future of Gaza's recovery. And an important part of that is health care for children, because they deserve a better future than they are currently having.
We're actively supporting rebuilding of Gaza's health care system, and we will update the House on measures that we are taking. We have brought forward debates, but also statements on these matters, and we will continue to do so.
12:01
Wera Hobhouse MP (Bath, Liberal Democrat)
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Wera Hobhouse MP (Bath, Liberal Democrat)
Wera Hobhouse thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker, a couple of weeks ago I spent a fabulous day at the Hall at the races at Bath Racecourse. For centuries, horse racing has been part of our national sporting history and in fact as part of our DNA. Yet across the industry, people are deeply concerned about the threat that harmonising tax rates will have on the sustainability of the sport. Can we have a debate before the budget about the impact that these proposed measures will have on British horse racing?
12:01
Rt Hon Sir Alan Campbell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Tynemouth, Labour)
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Rt Hon Sir Alan Campbell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Tynemouth, Labour)
Thank you, Madam. stories about what might or might not happen, and as I she expects me to say, she'll have to wait to see the budget. This is whether or not the these stories are accurate. But she can raise a debate before the budget because I know this is a concern to a number of members across the House.
12:02
Rachael Maskell MP (York Central, Independent)
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Rachael Maskell MP (York Central, Independent)
Rachael Maskell Madam Deputy.
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Speaker, York is a kind and welcoming city following the recent wave of. Intimidation.
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Intimidation. Racism and violence perpetrated by a few. And that has rocked our
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city. I've launched our One York Unity campaign, hashtag our three words, where I am asking people across York. To provide.
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To provide. Three. Values which define our city, miner, inclusion. Community.
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Community. And caring. What support can he bring to our campaign? And can we have a debate on.
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Speaker, York is a kind and welcoming city following the recent wave of. Intimidation.
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Intimidation. Racism and violence perpetrated by a few. And that has rocked our
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city. I've launched our One York Unity campaign, hashtag our three words, where I am asking people across York. To provide.
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To provide. Three. Values which define our city, miner, inclusion. Community.
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Community. And caring. What support can he bring to our campaign? And can we have a debate on.
12:02
Rt Hon Sir Alan Campbell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Tynemouth, Labour)
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And can we have a debate on. Inclusion in. Our cities and communities? Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker, my Honourable friend is a great advocate for that fine historic city, but also for the cause that she speaks of today. She is a voice of calm often in these matters, and I thank her for doing that by raising it today she is raising that matter and she can, because I know there are concerns across the House. She can look towards perhaps an adjournment debate or indeed a backbench business debate to see if there are shared shared views and experiences across the home.
Rt Hon Sir Alan Campbell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Tynemouth, Labour)
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And can we have a debate on. Inclusion in. Our cities and communities? Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker, my Honourable friend is a great advocate for that fine historic city, but also for the cause that she speaks of today. She is a voice of calm often in these matters, and I thank her for doing that by raising it today she is raising that matter and she can, because I know there are concerns across the House. She can look towards perhaps an adjournment debate or indeed a backbench business debate to see if there are shared shared views and experiences across the home.
12:03
Sir Ashley Fox MP (Bridgwater, Conservative)
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Sir Ashley Fox MP (Bridgwater, Conservative)
Ashley Fox in Lovington village.
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In my constituency, three separate. over. 400 homes have been submitted,
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400 homes have been submitted, with the prospect of a. Fourth, even larger proposal to follow. The cumulative impact.
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Of these. Developments on local services will not. Be fully assessed because each
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application is treated separately. To make matters worse, Somerset Council's temporary. Emergency planning measures.
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Emergency planning measures. Has led to the cancellation of many planning committees. Leaving local councillors cut out
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of decision making processes. So may I ask the Leader of the House for a debate on how cumulative housing impacts.
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Are assessed. And how we ensure that. Local democratic. notwithstanding.
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In my constituency, three separate. over. 400 homes have been submitted,
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400 homes have been submitted, with the prospect of a. Fourth, even larger proposal to follow. The cumulative impact.
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Of these. Developments on local services will not. Be fully assessed because each
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application is treated separately. To make matters worse, Somerset Council's temporary. Emergency planning measures.
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Emergency planning measures. Has led to the cancellation of many planning committees. Leaving local councillors cut out
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of decision making processes. So may I ask the Leader of the House for a debate on how cumulative housing impacts.
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Are assessed. And how we ensure that. Local democratic. notwithstanding.
12:03
Rt Hon Sir Alan Campbell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Tynemouth, Labour)
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notwithstanding. The comments that are made to his honourable friend previously about the importance of housing, I the importance of housing, I understand from a constituency perspective, but also from the experience of colleagues across the House. There is concern, particularly in rural areas, where they're seeing their communities transformed in a way, a necessary way in many cases. And I think this would be an excellent case for a backbench business debate so that he can expand on the views that he's given today.
Rt Hon Sir Alan Campbell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Tynemouth, Labour)
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notwithstanding. The comments that are made to his honourable friend previously about the importance of housing, I the importance of housing, I understand from a constituency perspective, but also from the experience of colleagues across the House. There is concern, particularly in rural areas, where they're seeing their communities transformed in a way, a necessary way in many cases. And I think this would be an excellent case for a backbench business debate so that he can expand on the views that he's given today.
12:04
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Thank you, Madam Chair.
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Kinghorn are not fully. Accessible because, as many of my trouble. In June, Network.
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In June, Network. Rail told me. a. Feasibility study into how to
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make Burntisland station accessible complete by the end of the summer. Despite repeated. Requests, they have still not
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Requests, they have still not given me a date by which this will happen. Does the leader agree that Network Rail needs to make this a priority, and will they make time
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Kinghorn are not fully. Accessible because, as many of my trouble. In June, Network.
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In June, Network. Rail told me. a. Feasibility study into how to
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make Burntisland station accessible complete by the end of the summer. Despite repeated. Requests, they have still not
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Requests, they have still not given me a date by which this will happen. Does the leader agree that Network Rail needs to make this a priority, and will they make time
12:04
Rt Hon Sir Alan Campbell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Tynemouth, Labour)
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priority, and will they make time for a debate on accessible. Transport either? Thank you. We are committed, Madam Deputy Speaker, to improving accessibility to Britain's railway. And I know my hon. Friend has raised this with the Transport Secretary. We are going to make announcements in due course, but I agree with her that I think the Network Rail does have a responsibility in this as well as government, but it is a matter which is needs to be addressed and we're going to get on with it.
Rt Hon Sir Alan Campbell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Tynemouth, Labour)
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priority, and will they make time for a debate on accessible. Transport either? Thank you. We are committed, Madam Deputy Speaker, to improving accessibility to Britain's railway. And I know my hon. Friend has raised this with the Transport Secretary. We are going to make announcements in due course, but I agree with her that I think the Network Rail does have a responsibility in this as well as government, but it is a matter which is needs to be addressed and we're going to get on with it.
12:05
Rachel Gilmour MP (Tiverton and Minehead, Liberal Democrat)
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Rachel Gilmour MP (Tiverton and Minehead, Liberal Democrat)
Rachel Gilmour thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. In my constituency there is a fantastic organisation called the Philo Project. They're a community interest company who provides innovative and award winning dementia care. When people come to the Philo project, however, their carer is subject to VAT of 20% simply because they're not being commissioned by a local authority who can claim back VAT. Will the Leader of the House find time in government business for a debate on the VAT status of community interest companies who are providing this level of dementia or other disability related day-care, so that we don't stay in a system where there is VAT on life altering social care.
12:05
Rt Hon Sir Alan Campbell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Tynemouth, Labour)
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Rt Hon Sir Alan Campbell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Tynemouth, Labour)
Peter. thread that run through and hold our communities together. So she she should be credited with raising these matters. They are important matters because often community groups do struggle. She should perhaps or may not be forgiven for this. Draw this to the attention of The Chancellor as we approach the budget, and she has an opportunity herself to raise this as a matter of debate, because others may. Sheila, here comes our.
12:06
Laura Kyrke-Smith MP (Aylesbury, Labour)
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Laura Kyrke-Smith MP (Aylesbury, Labour)
Own Kirk Smith.
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my. Whitchurch a meet and greet. Residents raised serious concerns. About the. Dangerous and.
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Disruptive heavy goods vehicles traffic on open road. One of the warned me. That soon. That there will be a nasty
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That there will be a nasty accident. Yet this route remains the. Leader allow time for debate on the impact. Of HGV.
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Of HGV. Traffic on our villages? And does he agree that local authorities like Buckinghamshire Council, should make full use of their.
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my. Whitchurch a meet and greet. Residents raised serious concerns. About the. Dangerous and.
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Disruptive heavy goods vehicles traffic on open road. One of the warned me. That soon. That there will be a nasty
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That there will be a nasty accident. Yet this route remains the. Leader allow time for debate on the impact. Of HGV.
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Of HGV. Traffic on our villages? And does he agree that local authorities like Buckinghamshire Council, should make full use of their.
12:06
Rt Hon Sir Alan Campbell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Tynemouth, Labour)
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full use of their. Powers to restrict and prohibit HGVs where that's possible? Yes, Madam Deputy Speaker.
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Yes, Madam Deputy Speaker. Heavy can have a negative effect on communities, particularly villages, both on safety but also an villages, both on safety but also an environmental impact as well, where often roads and pavements are particularly narrow. As she says, local traffic authorities have powers to restrict or prohibit the use of HGVs on, on indeed any road, and I would encourage them if they've got the power and there's demand for it in a local area, then they should use that power.
But this is a good topic, I think, for a Westminster Hall debate.
Rt Hon Sir Alan Campbell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Tynemouth, Labour)
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full use of their. Powers to restrict and prohibit HGVs where that's possible? Yes, Madam Deputy Speaker.
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Yes, Madam Deputy Speaker. Heavy can have a negative effect on communities, particularly villages, both on safety but also an villages, both on safety but also an environmental impact as well, where often roads and pavements are particularly narrow. As she says, local traffic authorities have powers to restrict or prohibit the use of HGVs on, on indeed any road, and I would encourage them if they've got the power and there's demand for it in a local area, then they should use that power.
But this is a good topic, I think, for a Westminster Hall debate.
12:07
Clive Jones MP (Wokingham, Liberal Democrat)
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Clive Jones MP (Wokingham, Liberal Democrat)
I Jones.
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Madam Deputy. Speaker. We know. At. Times it's hard. To.
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To. See a GP. The Teenage Cancer Trust have highlighted that the 16 to 24 year olds have to see a GP
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more often than any other age group before getting a cancer. Diagnosis. Often three times before getting
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Often three times before getting a referral for diagnosis. So will. The Leader of the House allow a
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The Leader of the House allow a debate in government time on increasing access to GPS as part of
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Madam Deputy. Speaker. We know. At. Times it's hard. To.
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To. See a GP. The Teenage Cancer Trust have highlighted that the 16 to 24 year olds have to see a GP
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more often than any other age group before getting a cancer. Diagnosis. Often three times before getting
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Often three times before getting a referral for diagnosis. So will. The Leader of the House allow a
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The Leader of the House allow a debate in government time on increasing access to GPS as part of
12:07
Rt Hon Sir Alan Campbell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Tynemouth, Labour)
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the wider National Cancer Plan, particularly for young people? Yeah. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker.
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Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. We are acutely aware of the state of access to GPS when we came into government, and we're doing something about it. We've delivered something about it. We've delivered over 5 million more NHS appointments since July, and we are continuing to push on that. In fact, we've delivered on our manifesto pledge seven months early. We have set out our ten year plan backed by extra investment. And it's really important not just, however, to make sure that there are extra slots for people to be seen, but also where that is and where people can get access to that information.
And I know from talking to them that the Secretary of State for health is acutely aware of this. And if he hasn't heard what you've said, the honourable members said today, then I will draw that to his attention.
Rt Hon Sir Alan Campbell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Tynemouth, Labour)
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the wider National Cancer Plan, particularly for young people? Yeah. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker.
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Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. We are acutely aware of the state of access to GPS when we came into government, and we're doing something about it. We've delivered something about it. We've delivered over 5 million more NHS appointments since July, and we are continuing to push on that. In fact, we've delivered on our manifesto pledge seven months early. We have set out our ten year plan backed by extra investment. And it's really important not just, however, to make sure that there are extra slots for people to be seen, but also where that is and where people can get access to that information.
And I know from talking to them that the Secretary of State for health is acutely aware of this. And if he hasn't heard what you've said, the honourable members said today, then I will draw that to his attention.
12:08
Gerald Jones MP (Merthyr Tydfil and Aberdare, Labour)
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Gerald Jones MP (Merthyr Tydfil and Aberdare, Labour)
Gerald Jones.
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Last Saturday I attended the 60th anniversary celebrations of the Male anniversary celebrations of the Male Voice Choir, one of at least six choirs in my constituency. They do a great job representing the talent locally, nationally.
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And internationally. Took particular pleasure to congratulate my reprice, who was the only original member of the choir only original member of the choir left from the early days of 1965. Will the Leader of the House join me Will the Leader of the House join me in congratulating the choir on this milestone anniversary? But could we also have a debate in government also have a debate in government time on the benefits of choirs and college societies in community life wellbeing?
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Last Saturday I attended the 60th anniversary celebrations of the Male anniversary celebrations of the Male Voice Choir, one of at least six choirs in my constituency. They do a great job representing the talent locally, nationally.
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And internationally. Took particular pleasure to congratulate my reprice, who was the only original member of the choir only original member of the choir left from the early days of 1965. Will the Leader of the House join me Will the Leader of the House join me in congratulating the choir on this milestone anniversary? But could we also have a debate in government also have a debate in government time on the benefits of choirs and college societies in community life wellbeing?
12:09
Rt Hon Sir Alan Campbell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Tynemouth, Labour)
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wellbeing? Yes. I will congratulate the choir. Madam speaker. It's one of those things when you think about perhaps the Welsh valleys then used to associate it with male voice choirs, and they're an important part of the fabric of those communities. So I do congratulate them on that. I would welcome, I think, through a debate, an opportunity to raise these issues because the government is acutely aware of that as well. And where the government is able to support music and other community activities, they are keen to do so to make sure that it just doesn't go to certain areas and to certain types of music, and that everyone, everywhere is particularly things, community.
Things like male voice choirs actually get their share.
Rt Hon Sir Alan Campbell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Tynemouth, Labour)
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wellbeing? Yes. I will congratulate the choir. Madam speaker. It's one of those things when you think about perhaps the Welsh valleys then used to associate it with male voice choirs, and they're an important part of the fabric of those communities. So I do congratulate them on that. I would welcome, I think, through a debate, an opportunity to raise these issues because the government is acutely aware of that as well. And where the government is able to support music and other community activities, they are keen to do so to make sure that it just doesn't go to certain areas and to certain types of music, and that everyone, everywhere is particularly things, community.
Things like male voice choirs actually get their share.
12:09
Tom Gordon MP (Harrogate and Knaresborough, Liberal Democrat)
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Tom Gordon MP (Harrogate and Knaresborough, Liberal Democrat)
Tom Gordon Madam Deputy Speaker, Rural families across North Yorkshire, including those in villages such as Killing Hall and Hampshire in my constituency, have been left stranded by changes to home to school transport rules, with children living in the same villages now set to go to different schools, and parents facing having to give up leader.
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Of a House make time for. A debate on reforming school transport laws, and. So. That it properly serves areas
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Of a House make time for. A debate on reforming school transport laws, and. So. That it properly serves areas
12:10
Rt Hon Sir Alan Campbell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Tynemouth, Labour)
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like North Yorkshire, and perhaps pass us on to colleagues in the DFT? Though I think it would be important. Madam Deputy Speaker of important. Madam Deputy Speaker of the Honourable Gentleman, sort a debate on that so that we can he can put together the evidence to draw to the attention of ministers who are acutely aware of the cost of public transport and school transport. And I think an opportunity to share across the House experiences that would actually inform debate.
Rt Hon Sir Alan Campbell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Tynemouth, Labour)
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like North Yorkshire, and perhaps pass us on to colleagues in the DFT? Though I think it would be important. Madam Deputy Speaker of important. Madam Deputy Speaker of the Honourable Gentleman, sort a debate on that so that we can he can put together the evidence to draw to the attention of ministers who are acutely aware of the cost of public transport and school transport. And I think an opportunity to share across the House experiences that would actually inform debate.
12:10
Jon Trickett MP (Normanton and Hemsworth, Labour)
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Jon Trickett MP (Normanton and Hemsworth, Labour)
Jon Trickett.
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Operator fails to follow the rules which have been laid down to protect the environment and the
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protect the environment and the community, it takes. Far. Too long for the Environment Agency to take enforcement and Agency to take enforcement and action. And in the case of my constituency, the company then declared liquidation in order, declared liquidation in order, presumably to avoid the cost of clean up. This is not an acceptable situation. It happens elsewhere in
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Operator fails to follow the rules which have been laid down to protect the environment and the
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protect the environment and the community, it takes. Far. Too long for the Environment Agency to take enforcement and Agency to take enforcement and action. And in the case of my constituency, the company then declared liquidation in order, declared liquidation in order, presumably to avoid the cost of clean up. This is not an acceptable situation. It happens elsewhere in
12:11
Rt Hon Sir Alan Campbell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Tynemouth, Labour)
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situation. It happens elsewhere in the country. Could we have a debate on this matter in government time? If my honourable friend.
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If my honourable friend. Could seek a debate, Madam Deputy Speaker, to raise this. But I will Speaker, to raise this. But I will take his concerns to the relevant department, and perhaps he may seek a meeting with that to explain to ministers what the problem is.
Rt Hon Sir Alan Campbell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Tynemouth, Labour)
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situation. It happens elsewhere in the country. Could we have a debate on this matter in government time? If my honourable friend.
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If my honourable friend. Could seek a debate, Madam Deputy Speaker, to raise this. But I will Speaker, to raise this. But I will take his concerns to the relevant department, and perhaps he may seek a meeting with that to explain to ministers what the problem is.
12:11
Liz Jarvis MP (Eastleigh, Liberal Democrat)
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Liz Jarvis MP (Eastleigh, Liberal Democrat)
Liz Jarvis. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker.
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Halton, MBA, served his country in the British Army for over 20 years. In February, he was seriously years. In February, he was seriously injured in an accident while working abroad, which has left him unable to walk. Mark is now back in the UK and receiving treatment, but he is not currently entitled to any further support because he had been working support because he had been working abroad for two out of the last three years. Does the Leader of the House years.
Does the Leader of the House agree with me that our veterans deserve to be treated with dignity and respect, and will he allow a debate in government time on support
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Halton, MBA, served his country in the British Army for over 20 years. In February, he was seriously years. In February, he was seriously injured in an accident while working abroad, which has left him unable to walk. Mark is now back in the UK and receiving treatment, but he is not currently entitled to any further support because he had been working support because he had been working abroad for two out of the last three years. Does the Leader of the House years.
Does the Leader of the House agree with me that our veterans deserve to be treated with dignity and respect, and will he allow a debate in government time on support
12:12
Rt Hon Sir Alan Campbell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Tynemouth, Labour)
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for disabled veterans? Yes. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. Yes, the it is important to recognise the contribution that veterans make and these are somewhat unusual circumstances, but they are harrowing circumstances and I am concerned to read that it should the Honourable lady seek an adjournment debate, she may not only be able to draw to the attention of the relevant Minister her concerns, because we are looking at the whole question of how we can treat our veterans better and with the dignity and respect that they deserve.
Should she seek that, then she may get the answer.
Rt Hon Sir Alan Campbell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Tynemouth, Labour)
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for disabled veterans? Yes. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. Yes, the it is important to recognise the contribution that veterans make and these are somewhat unusual circumstances, but they are harrowing circumstances and I am concerned to read that it should the Honourable lady seek an adjournment debate, she may not only be able to draw to the attention of the relevant Minister her concerns, because we are looking at the whole question of how we can treat our veterans better and with the dignity and respect that they deserve.
Should she seek that, then she may get the answer.
12:12
Gareth Snell MP (Stoke-on-Trent Central, Labour )
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Gareth Snell MP (Stoke-on-Trent Central, Labour )
She said, no, thank.
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You very much, Madam Deputy Speaker. The streets around Birches Heads near Green have become an impenetrable labyrinth of road closures, diversions and blockades, closures, diversions and blockades, while Severn Trent Water dig up the road to replace important infrastructure but nevertheless a great disruption to local people. great disruption to local people. The Street Works Act and the Traffic Management Act should give local authorities the ability to help coordinate some of those works, but coordinate some of those works, but in this case it simply isn't happening, and those acts now seem deficient in doing what they're meant to.
So could the leader meant to. So could the leader arrange for either a statement or a debate in government time on how we can ensure that there is a
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You very much, Madam Deputy Speaker. The streets around Birches Heads near Green have become an impenetrable labyrinth of road closures, diversions and blockades, closures, diversions and blockades, while Severn Trent Water dig up the road to replace important infrastructure but nevertheless a great disruption to local people. great disruption to local people. The Street Works Act and the Traffic Management Act should give local authorities the ability to help coordinate some of those works, but coordinate some of those works, but in this case it simply isn't happening, and those acts now seem deficient in doing what they're meant to.
So could the leader meant to. So could the leader arrange for either a statement or a debate in government time on how we can ensure that there is a
12:13
Rt Hon Sir Alan Campbell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Tynemouth, Labour)
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coordination of these works to reduce the impact on local people? Leader and Madam Deputy Speaker, this is not unique to my Honourable this is not unique to my Honourable friends constituency, and though he is a great advocate for his constituents, I'm sure others have similar stories. He may seek a backbench business debate to raise these matters because as far as I can remember, we have been discussing these things for quite a long time and therefore we do need to work out what what further things can be done.
Rt Hon Sir Alan Campbell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Tynemouth, Labour)
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coordination of these works to reduce the impact on local people? Leader and Madam Deputy Speaker, this is not unique to my Honourable this is not unique to my Honourable friends constituency, and though he is a great advocate for his constituents, I'm sure others have similar stories. He may seek a backbench business debate to raise these matters because as far as I can remember, we have been discussing these things for quite a long time and therefore we do need to work out what what further things can be done.
12:13
Jim Shannon MP (Strangford, Democratic Unionist Party)
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Jim Shannon MP (Strangford, Democratic Unionist Party)
Apparently it was a short question from Jim Shannon. Can I welcome again the Leader of the House to his role and he's very, very clearly enjoying it so much. So I wish them well. And as he goes forward on Wednesday past, Madam Deputy Speaker, I met a deputation from Chin State and Burma. So I'm very deeply concerned about increased reports of junta attacks on the majority Christian community and Chin State and Burma, including last week's airstrike which struck a church, Summit Township.
Well, the Leader of the House join me in condemning this appalling attack. Urge the Foreign Secretary Lane, what action government will take in response to escalating attacks against religious communities and Chin State and Myanmar and Burma? Thank you.
Well, the Leader of the House join me in condemning this appalling attack. Urge the Foreign Secretary Lane, what action government will take in response to escalating attacks against religious communities and Chin State and Myanmar and Burma? Thank you.
12:14
Rt Hon Sir Alan Campbell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Tynemouth, Labour)
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Rt Hon Sir Alan Campbell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Tynemouth, Labour)
Thank you. Deputy Speaker, I just said very gently to the honourable gentleman that appearances can be deceptive, but he is as a fierce champion of the freedom of religion and belief, and he raises a very serious matter. The UK is committed to defending freedom of religion and belief for all, and I'll make sure that the Foreign Secretary hears his concerns and that he gets a reply. But I'd also encourage him to raise the question to Fcdo orals on the 28th.
He is no stranger to questions, I'm sure.
He is no stranger to questions, I'm sure.
12:14
Ms Julie Minns MP (Carlisle, Labour)
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Ms Julie Minns MP (Carlisle, Labour)
He Julie Minns. in congratulating Theresa mulholland, who earlier this week was named Cumbrian Woman of the year? Theresa is director of Carlisle United Community Sports Trust and was recognised for her leadership, empathy and courage and determination to help others. In congratulating Theresa Will, the Leader of the House, also took the opportunity to put on record our thanks to all of the community sports trusts right across the UK who do so much for our local communities.
12:15
Rt Hon Sir Alan Campbell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Tynemouth, Labour)
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Rt Hon Sir Alan Campbell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Tynemouth, Labour)
Because I. Theresa on her well-deserved award, but also to acknowledge the importance not just to Carlisle United Football Club, but other football clubs for the work that they do across communities as well. These qualities of leadership and selflessness are ones that I'm sure MPs across the House will recognise in volunteers in their own constituencies, and one of the aspects of business questions every week, I'm already aware, is to share our appreciation and indeed admiration for volunteers dedication to their communities.
12:15
Barry Gardiner MP (Brent West, Labour)
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Barry Gardiner MP (Brent West, Labour)
Barry Gardiner. Joint Intelligence Committee on the link between biodiversity, sustainability and national security is still not with us. Lord Dannatt and many senior military figures have increasingly expressed their concern about the threat of the collapse of global biodiversity and that poses to our food security and the security risks arising from climate change. So, can my right hon. Friend assure us that the surest that the that contrary to recent press stories, the JRC report has not been blocked? And can he tell the House when it will be published?
12:16
12:16
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Chris Bloore thank you, Madam Speaker.
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Redditch policing team, you do a fantastic job keeping our community safe. However, residents are frustrated that our.
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that our. Newly redeveloped police and. Fire station. Has no front counter. Instead, residents must travel 20 miles to
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residents must travel 20 miles to speak to an officer face to face. That simply isn't good enough. Will the Leader of the House grant. A.
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Redditch policing team, you do a fantastic job keeping our community safe. However, residents are frustrated that our.
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that our. Newly redeveloped police and. Fire station. Has no front counter. Instead, residents must travel 20 miles to
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residents must travel 20 miles to speak to an officer face to face. That simply isn't good enough. Will the Leader of the House grant. A.
12:17
Rt Hon Sir Alan Campbell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Tynemouth, Labour)
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A. Debate on how we can ensure that all communities. Have. Visible and accessible policing support. Decisions on local resourcing of
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Decisions on local resourcing of police stations are made by chief constables and elected police and crime commissioners. But I have a huge amount of sense with my Honourable friend is saying because in my constituency and I'm sure in others, the importance of face to face contact with the police is absolutely crucial, not just to report incidents, but also so that residents can feel safe and reassured. I would urge him to call a debate on these important matters, not just to highlight his own constituency concerns, but to let others do the same.
Rt Hon Sir Alan Campbell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Tynemouth, Labour)
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A. Debate on how we can ensure that all communities. Have. Visible and accessible policing support. Decisions on local resourcing of
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Decisions on local resourcing of police stations are made by chief constables and elected police and crime commissioners. But I have a huge amount of sense with my Honourable friend is saying because in my constituency and I'm sure in others, the importance of face to face contact with the police is absolutely crucial, not just to report incidents, but also so that residents can feel safe and reassured. I would urge him to call a debate on these important matters, not just to highlight his own constituency concerns, but to let others do the same.
12:17
Baggy Shanker MP (Derby South, Labour )
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Baggy Shanker MP (Derby South, Labour )
To Baggy Shanker.
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Madam Deputy Speaker. Earlier this year I had the absolute pleasure of visiting the absolute pleasure of visiting the Needles pub in Ulverston, where Mel and Trevor have created a great
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and Trevor have created a great and. A. Welcoming space. Whether that's pulling pints or
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Whether that's pulling pints or raising vital funds. For local charities. Does my right hon. Friend agree with me that we don't want to agree with me that we don't want to see pubs calling last orders for the
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Madam Deputy Speaker. Earlier this year I had the absolute pleasure of visiting the absolute pleasure of visiting the Needles pub in Ulverston, where Mel and Trevor have created a great
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and Trevor have created a great and. A. Welcoming space. Whether that's pulling pints or
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Whether that's pulling pints or raising vital funds. For local charities. Does my right hon. Friend agree with me that we don't want to agree with me that we don't want to see pubs calling last orders for the
12:18
Rt Hon Sir Alan Campbell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Tynemouth, Labour)
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see pubs calling last orders for the for good, because it's pubs like the atmospheres. And we. communities.
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Madam Deputy. Speaker, pubs. Are at the heart of our communities and often serve as vital community assets. We certainly don't community assets. We certainly don't want to see pubs closing, and we're working with the sector to address the clear challenges that they face, including through the Hospitality Sector Council, and I would urge him to raise his concerns at business and trade questions. On the 30th of October.
Rt Hon Sir Alan Campbell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Tynemouth, Labour)
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see pubs calling last orders for the for good, because it's pubs like the atmospheres. And we. communities.
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Madam Deputy. Speaker, pubs. Are at the heart of our communities and often serve as vital community assets. We certainly don't community assets. We certainly don't want to see pubs closing, and we're working with the sector to address the clear challenges that they face, including through the Hospitality Sector Council, and I would urge him to raise his concerns at business and trade questions. On the 30th of October.
12:18
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Speaker. Penn Cricket. Club in my constituency of Wolverhampton West has been under an. Environment Agency stop notice
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an. Environment Agency stop notice since July 2022 after Saul was wrongly. Imported onto its grounds and nothing much. Has. Happened since then.
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Happened since then. So can the. Leader of the. House please support. My attempt. To. Encourage the Environment. Agency
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to complete their. Investigations. So that my constituents. Can get. Their cricket club back?
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Speaker. Penn Cricket. Club in my constituency of Wolverhampton West has been under an. Environment Agency stop notice
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an. Environment Agency stop notice since July 2022 after Saul was wrongly. Imported onto its grounds and nothing much. Has. Happened since then.
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Happened since then. So can the. Leader of the. House please support. My attempt. To. Encourage the Environment. Agency
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to complete their. Investigations. So that my constituents. Can get. Their cricket club back?
12:19
Rt Hon Sir Alan Campbell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Tynemouth, Labour)
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Sorry, Madam Deputy Speaker, to hear of the concern. I understand that the Environment Agency Area Director for the West Midlands East, Director for the West Midlands East, Mr. Ian Jones, would be more than happy to meet with my honourable friend and his constituencies to take this forward. But I will also ensure that Defra ministers are made aware of the situation.
Rt Hon Sir Alan Campbell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Tynemouth, Labour)
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Sorry, Madam Deputy Speaker, to hear of the concern. I understand that the Environment Agency Area Director for the West Midlands East, Director for the West Midlands East, Mr. Ian Jones, would be more than happy to meet with my honourable friend and his constituencies to take this forward. But I will also ensure that Defra ministers are made aware of the situation.
12:19
Kirsteen Sullivan MP (Bathgate and Linlithgow, Labour )
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Kirsteen Sullivan MP (Bathgate and Linlithgow, Labour )
Kirsteen Sullivan thank you. at.
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Providing many vital services. For local residents including our Saturday, Charlotte.
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Charlotte. first. Charity. Ball. Raising over £7,000 for. Local projects. With.
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With. The Leader of the House to make. A statement on the benefits. Community projects and congratulate the Whitburn.
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congratulate the Whitburn. Team and join me in thanking Ben. founding. Directors who recently stood down
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Providing many vital services. For local residents including our Saturday, Charlotte.
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Charlotte. first. Charity. Ball. Raising over £7,000 for. Local projects. With.
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With. The Leader of the House to make. A statement on the benefits. Community projects and congratulate the Whitburn.
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congratulate the Whitburn. Team and join me in thanking Ben. founding. Directors who recently stood down
12:19
Rt Hon Sir Alan Campbell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Tynemouth, Labour)
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Directors who recently stood down after many years of service to the same year. Madam Deputy Speaker. I'm happy to send my congratulations not just to Ben and congratulations not just to Ben and John for their many years of service, but to everyone associated with this community. Development trusts are really important for local communities, and they are. As I've said before, the thread that holds communities together. So I'm happy to send my congratulations and to wish them well.
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Speaker. Thank you. Madam Speaker. Nepal has seen so much change in recent weeks. much change in recent weeks. Widespread protests around corruption very sadly led to 72
Rt Hon Sir Alan Campbell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Tynemouth, Labour)
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Directors who recently stood down after many years of service to the same year. Madam Deputy Speaker. I'm happy to send my congratulations not just to Ben and congratulations not just to Ben and John for their many years of service, but to everyone associated with this community. Development trusts are really important for local communities, and they are. As I've said before, the thread that holds communities together. So I'm happy to send my congratulations and to wish them well.
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Speaker. Thank you. Madam Speaker. Nepal has seen so much change in recent weeks. much change in recent weeks. Widespread protests around corruption very sadly led to 72
12:20
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people losing their lives, with many more injured. But on a more positive note, a new interim government has been peacefully formed, including the historic appointment of the country's first woman Prime Minister, Sushila Karki. I know how deeply this is felt as Chair of the Appg for Nepal across our Nepalese community in the UK and in in our sister nation, will the Leader of the House join me in offering condolences to those who have lost loved ones? Welcome the new interim government and find time for a debate on how the UK can best support Nepal in delivering on their support Nepal in delivering on their aspirations for accountability and inclusive government.
12:21
Alex Baker MP (Aldershot, Labour)
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Alex Baker MP (Aldershot, Labour)
I thank you for your work on this matter, Madam Deputy Speaker, and certainly condemn the recent loss of life and violence in Nepal, which is appalling. The government supports appalling. The government supports fundamental freedoms and respect for human rights, including the right to protest and peaceful assembly. And protest and peaceful assembly. And I'm sure the government, the Foreign Office, will have heard her remarks.
12:21
12:21
John Slinger MP (Rugby, Labour)
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John Slinger MP (Rugby, Labour)
Will the leader join me in congratulating the Hindu, Sikh, Jain and Buddhist communities? Councillor Ish Mistry, central Rugby first Rugby Borough Council K Joshi The marshals, volunteers and participants on stage at their very successful Diwali celebration held on Saturday and enjoyed by all Rugby and Diwali, symbolises light over darkness and reflects the wider need for understanding in our community. So could he consider time for a debate on all we can do to boost community cohesion and counter the forces that seek to divide us?
12:21
Rt Hon Sir Alan Campbell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Tynemouth, Labour)
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Rt Hon Sir Alan Campbell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Tynemouth, Labour)
UK? Speaker, I'm not going to repeat the list of all involved because you'd be calling me now, but I'm sure it'll be a fantastic event and I wish everyone celebrating Diwali a happy Diwali. Community cohesion is going to become even more important as we go forward, and I recommend to my honourable friend that he seeks a debate so that we can start to build our way to better social cohesion.
12:22
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Dave Robertson I'm.
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24 schools across the West Midlands, including five primary and. My Lord Secondary. School in Litchfield.
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School in Litchfield. Last year, the trust was bailed out by the Department for. Education and last Friday they.
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Wrote to all of their. Staff inviting applications for voluntary redundancies, suggesting there may be compulsory redundancies to follow. This is a huge worry not only for those hard working staff but for parents pupils in the community. I have reached out to the
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other affected members. The honourable members. For Tamworth, Birmingham Erdington. Birmingham Perry Barr, North Warwickshire and Bedworth and Coventry North West. As I.
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Coventry North West. As I. Know they share some of my concerns. Can the. Leader arrange for. Me to.
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Me to. Meet with the relevant minister. With those other members, so that we can talk about how we can make sure that. The trust.
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24 schools across the West Midlands, including five primary and. My Lord Secondary. School in Litchfield.
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School in Litchfield. Last year, the trust was bailed out by the Department for. Education and last Friday they.
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Wrote to all of their. Staff inviting applications for voluntary redundancies, suggesting there may be compulsory redundancies to follow. This is a huge worry not only for those hard working staff but for parents pupils in the community. I have reached out to the
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other affected members. The honourable members. For Tamworth, Birmingham Erdington. Birmingham Perry Barr, North Warwickshire and Bedworth and Coventry North West. As I.
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Coventry North West. As I. Know they share some of my concerns. Can the. Leader arrange for. Me to.
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Me to. Meet with the relevant minister. With those other members, so that we can talk about how we can make sure that. The trust.
12:23
12:23
Jayne Kirkham MP (Truro and Falmouth, Labour )
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Jayne Kirkham MP (Truro and Falmouth, Labour )
situations, Madam Deputy Speaker and I will draw it to the attention of the department and hopefully he will get the meeting that he seeks.
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Jayne Kirkham thank you, Madam. Deputy Speaker. My constituents. Is lucky to have good school libraries like those at King Charles School, run by talented.
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School, run by talented. Librarians like Emma Sager, who. Can get anyone reading. They also provide calm, supervised spaces for provide calm, supervised spaces for students. And so I was delighted to hear the Chancellor's commitment to a library in every primary at our a library in every primary at our conference. One the leader grant a debate on the benefits of school libraries or a statement to confirm
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Jayne Kirkham thank you, Madam. Deputy Speaker. My constituents. Is lucky to have good school libraries like those at King Charles School, run by talented.
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School, run by talented. Librarians like Emma Sager, who. Can get anyone reading. They also provide calm, supervised spaces for provide calm, supervised spaces for students. And so I was delighted to hear the Chancellor's commitment to a library in every primary at our a library in every primary at our conference. One the leader grant a debate on the benefits of school libraries or a statement to confirm
12:23
Rt Hon Sir Alan Campbell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Tynemouth, Labour)
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Rt Hon Sir Alan Campbell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Tynemouth, Labour)
libraries or a statement to confirm the steps in the process to enable primary schools like mine in flushing, who want to create a
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school library to be able to do so. Either. Reading is transformative, Madam Deputy Speaker, and every child should have access to a library space, which is why we've committed to providing £10 million to guarantee a library in all primary guarantee a library in all primary schools by the end of this Parliament. And I invite my hon.
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Friend to call for a debate so that it can be just discussed how that investment can best be used. Pam Cox.
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school library to be able to do so. Either. Reading is transformative, Madam Deputy Speaker, and every child should have access to a library space, which is why we've committed to providing £10 million to guarantee a library in all primary guarantee a library in all primary schools by the end of this Parliament. And I invite my hon.
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Friend to call for a debate so that it can be just discussed how that investment can best be used. Pam Cox.
12:24
Pam Cox MP (Colchester, Labour)
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Pam Cox. Thank you madam. Last week. The. EQC published a shocking report on Colchester Hospital which found
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on Colchester Hospital which found and. Emergency care there to. Be inadequate with the lead of the House. Provide time.
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the House. Provide time. For debate on ensuring. That record levels. Of investment in our NHS is actually reaching frontline staff.
Pam Cox MP (Colchester, Labour)
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Pam Cox. Thank you madam. Last week. The. EQC published a shocking report on Colchester Hospital which found
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on Colchester Hospital which found and. Emergency care there to. Be inadequate with the lead of the House. Provide time.
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the House. Provide time. For debate on ensuring. That record levels. Of investment in our NHS is actually reaching frontline staff.
12:24
Rt Hon Sir Alan Campbell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Tynemouth, Labour)
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actually reaching frontline staff. And patients. Minister madam. Deputy Speaker, we are investigating investing record money, but it is the case that unfortunately the stories like this do emerge and they are extraordinarily distressing. I extraordinarily distressing. I understand my honourable friend is meeting a number of stakeholders to regarding this report. I would invite her to attend health questions next Tuesday and make these points, but also perhaps to
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apply for an adjournment debate, which I am sure would be well attended. James Naish thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker.
Rt Hon Sir Alan Campbell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Tynemouth, Labour)
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actually reaching frontline staff. And patients. Minister madam. Deputy Speaker, we are investigating investing record money, but it is the case that unfortunately the stories like this do emerge and they are extraordinarily distressing. I extraordinarily distressing. I understand my honourable friend is meeting a number of stakeholders to regarding this report. I would invite her to attend health questions next Tuesday and make these points, but also perhaps to
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apply for an adjournment debate, which I am sure would be well attended. James Naish thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker.
12:25
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Deputy Speaker. My constituent, Rebecca Dowd as well, had a small business, naked and CDD, which has incurred over £30,000 plus VAT in legal fees, fighting L'Oreal in a dispute over remarks she's been using for over 15 years, longer than L'Oreal has been using its naked and archaic Ed brand in the UK dispute. This dispute is an example of a David versus Goliath situation, where small businesses absorb huge time, cost and stresses to protect their intellectual property.
Does the Leader of the House agree with me that it's important that small businesses are supported to protect their IP, and would he ensure time for members to would he ensure time for members to influence the government's small business plan announced over the summer?
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Deputy Speaker. My constituent, Rebecca Dowd as well, had a small business, naked and CDD, which has incurred over £30,000 plus VAT in legal fees, fighting L'Oreal in a dispute over remarks she's been using for over 15 years, longer than L'Oreal has been using its naked and archaic Ed brand in the UK dispute. This dispute is an example of a David versus Goliath situation, where small businesses absorb huge time, cost and stresses to protect their intellectual property.
Does the Leader of the House agree with me that it's important that small businesses are supported to protect their IP, and would he ensure time for members to would he ensure time for members to influence the government's small business plan announced over the summer?
12:25
James Naish MP (Rushcliffe, Labour)
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James Naish MP (Rushcliffe, Labour)
Madam Deputy Speaker, it's important that we support small businesses. They are so vital to the success of our economy. The government is backing your business government is backing your business plan, commits the Intellectual Property Office to strengthening intellectual property support for small businesses. I will write to the relevant department and ensure that my honourable friend gets a response.
12:26
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Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker.
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Deepest condolences. Following the sad. Passing of the People's. Champion, Ricky. Hatton. A man who inspired millions.
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With his courage. In. The. Ring and his honesty outside it. My thoughts.
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My thoughts. time. In his memory. Those closest to him. Have launched. The. Ricky Hatton. Foundation. Dedicated to
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Foundation. Dedicated to supporting the mental. Health and. Wellbeing of. Current and. Former sportspeople. So will. The leader in the House.
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The leader in the House. Join me in paying tribute to Rick? His remarkable career and contribution to British. Sport and wishing the. New foundation every.
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Deepest condolences. Following the sad. Passing of the People's. Champion, Ricky. Hatton. A man who inspired millions.
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With his courage. In. The. Ring and his honesty outside it. My thoughts.
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My thoughts. time. In his memory. Those closest to him. Have launched. The. Ricky Hatton. Foundation. Dedicated to
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Foundation. Dedicated to supporting the mental. Health and. Wellbeing of. Current and. Former sportspeople. So will. The leader in the House.
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The leader in the House. Join me in paying tribute to Rick? His remarkable career and contribution to British. Sport and wishing the. New foundation every.
12:26
Rt Hon Sir Alan Campbell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Tynemouth, Labour)
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New foundation every. Success in building a lasting legacy for Ricky? Minister. Thank you. I do John Right honourable friend
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I do John Right honourable friend in paying tribute to Ricky Hatton, who was a remarkable character and a who was a remarkable character and a remarkable sportsman. And I wish the Foundation every success, and I am sure my honourable friend will continue to give it the attention that it deserves.
Rt Hon Sir Alan Campbell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Tynemouth, Labour)
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New foundation every. Success in building a lasting legacy for Ricky? Minister. Thank you. I do John Right honourable friend
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I do John Right honourable friend in paying tribute to Ricky Hatton, who was a remarkable character and a who was a remarkable character and a remarkable sportsman. And I wish the Foundation every success, and I am sure my honourable friend will continue to give it the attention that it deserves.
12:26
Paul Davies MP (Colne Valley, Labour)
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Paul Davies MP (Colne Valley, Labour)
Paul Davies.
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Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. Recently, I attended the Pennine. Domestic Abuse. Partnership's 50th anniversary.
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50th anniversary. Event, Magnificent Menopause. The event. Celebrated the resilience of
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Celebrated the resilience of menopausal women while. Marking menopause. Month. World menopause month. Will the
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World menopause month. Will the Leader of the House congratulate. UP's outstanding work? And can we have a government.
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And can we have a government. Statement on what steps are being taken to advance menopause research? Leader thank you.
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Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. Recently, I attended the Pennine. Domestic Abuse. Partnership's 50th anniversary.
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50th anniversary. Event, Magnificent Menopause. The event. Celebrated the resilience of
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Celebrated the resilience of menopausal women while. Marking menopause. Month. World menopause month. Will the
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World menopause month. Will the Leader of the House congratulate. UP's outstanding work? And can we have a government.
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And can we have a government. Statement on what steps are being taken to advance menopause research? Leader thank you.
12:27
Rt Hon Sir Alan Campbell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Tynemouth, Labour)
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Leader thank you. Madam Deputy Speaker, I do congratulate the partnership's congratulate the partnership's fantastic achievement. Women have experienced symptoms of menopause, have been felt for far too long, and the National Institute for Health and Social Care has invested an extra £5 million into menopause care. But if you want to hear a government response in in quick time, there is a Westminster Hall debate later today on World Menopause Day. You may wish to contribute to that, but also to hear what the Minister has got to say.
what the Minister has got to say.
Rt Hon Sir Alan Campbell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Tynemouth, Labour)
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Leader thank you. Madam Deputy Speaker, I do congratulate the partnership's congratulate the partnership's fantastic achievement. Women have experienced symptoms of menopause, have been felt for far too long, and the National Institute for Health and Social Care has invested an extra £5 million into menopause care. But if you want to hear a government response in in quick time, there is a Westminster Hall debate later today on World Menopause Day. You may wish to contribute to that, but also to hear what the Minister has got to say.
what the Minister has got to say.
12:28
Patricia Ferguson MP (Glasgow West, Labour)
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Patricia Ferguson MP (Glasgow West, Labour)
Patricia Ferguson thank you, Madam Speaker. My constituent in Glasgow West, an elderly gentleman in his 90s, recently tried to change his energy tariff to one that was cheaper. Unfortunately, when he applied, it transpired that he could only do that if he was online, something that wasn't possible for him to be. Does the does my honourable friend agree with me that this is an unacceptable form of digital exclusion? And can he it?
12:28
Rt Hon Sir Alan Campbell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Tynemouth, Labour)
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Rt Hon Sir Alan Campbell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Tynemouth, Labour)
Yeah. important matter. Digital inclusion is a priority for the government. It's important that everyone has access so that they can engage in a modern digital society, whatever their circumstances happen to be. We have published the Digital Inclusion Action Plan to tackle digital exclusion and ensuring that everyone is able to access the services that they need.
12:28
Martin Rhodes MP (Glasgow North, Labour)
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Martin Rhodes MP (Glasgow North, Labour)
Martin Rhodes.
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During the recent Fairtrade Fortnight, many. Constituents contacted me about their concerns
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contacted me about their concerns practices. Will the leader. Of the House scheduled government time for a debate on monetary due diligence to protect against
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During the recent Fairtrade Fortnight, many. Constituents contacted me about their concerns
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contacted me about their concerns practices. Will the leader. Of the House scheduled government time for a debate on monetary due diligence to protect against
12:29
Rt Hon Sir Alan Campbell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Tynemouth, Labour)
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Rt Hon Sir Alan Campbell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Tynemouth, Labour)
diligence to protect against corporate harms and ensure UK companies are held accountable for chains?
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Either businesses have must conduct proper due diligence. Madam Deputy Speaker, and we understand the concern of his constituents because it's widely felt across the country. He may know that we've launched a review into responsible business conduct as part of our trade strategy, and he may wish to
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Either businesses have must conduct proper due diligence. Madam Deputy Speaker, and we understand the concern of his constituents because it's widely felt across the country. He may know that we've launched a review into responsible business conduct as part of our trade strategy, and he may wish to
12:29
Tom Hayes MP (Bournemouth East, Labour)
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trade strategy, and he may wish to seek either a Backbench or adjournment debate to highlight these matters. Tom Hayes. Thank you, Madam.
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Thank you, Madam. Deputy Speaker. On Saturday morning I met residents concerned about persistent anti-social behaviour, drug dealing and underage behaviour, drug dealing and underage vaping. I'm trying to get the solutions they need by arranging a community meeting with the police. How can I use the government's new powers to limit vape shops and barbers in particular areas, so that residents of Warwick, Wokingham and Harrington Roads, York Place and surrounding streets can finally feel safe?
Tom Hayes MP (Bournemouth East, Labour)
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trade strategy, and he may wish to seek either a Backbench or adjournment debate to highlight these matters. Tom Hayes. Thank you, Madam.
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Thank you, Madam. Deputy Speaker. On Saturday morning I met residents concerned about persistent anti-social behaviour, drug dealing and underage behaviour, drug dealing and underage vaping. I'm trying to get the solutions they need by arranging a community meeting with the police. How can I use the government's new powers to limit vape shops and barbers in particular areas, so that residents of Warwick, Wokingham and Harrington Roads, York Place and surrounding streets can finally feel safe?
12:30
Rt Hon Sir Alan Campbell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Tynemouth, Labour)
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Rt Hon Sir Alan Campbell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Tynemouth, Labour)
This is an. cracking down on anti-social behaviour in our communities. As the Minister for communities set out yesterday, the Pride in Place programme will give communities the power to block unwanted shops, including vape stores and fake barbers, and we're also bringing in new laws to crack down on dodgy vape shops through the Tobacco and Vapes bill, which is undertaking its Lords stages.
12:30
Alison Hume MP (Scarborough and Whitby, Labour)
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Alison Hume MP (Scarborough and Whitby, Labour)
Alison Hume thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I recently had the pleasure of meeting the SBA Unity Racing Team from Scarborough UTC, who came third at the Stem Racing World Finals in Singapore. The Scarborough team race raised a whopping £30,000 to compete, while the teams from Germany and Australia, who beat them had financial support from their governments. Would the Leader of the House join me in congratulating students Jack, Mandy, Ryan, Billy and Joey on their outstanding achievement? Flying the flag not just for Scarborough but for the UK.
12:30
Rt Hon Sir Alan Campbell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Tynemouth, Labour)
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Rt Hon Sir Alan Campbell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Tynemouth, Labour)
I will, Madam Deputy Speaker. Thank you. Scarborough's SBA Unity Racing Team for their fantastic success. I send my congratulations to the whole team. We know about the importance of Stem, so I'll ensure that the Secretary of State for education learns about their success, but also to reemphasize why this is a fantastic opportunity for young people.
12:31
Josh Newbury MP (Cannock Chase, Labour)
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Josh Newbury MP (Cannock Chase, Labour)
Josh Newbury. Brenda Woodbridge, an inspiring, disabled 19 year old who aspires to be a freelance journalist to spotlight accessible places and services so people like him don't feel trapped at home. Brendan and his mom, Natalie, told me that when leaving the nurturing school environment, there's often nothing for young people like him to go on to. So could the Leader of the House grant a debate on educational and adults?
12:31
Rt Hon Sir Alan Campbell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Tynemouth, Labour)
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Rt Hon Sir Alan Campbell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Tynemouth, Labour)
I wish the.
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Honourable gentleman constituent all the best in his journalistic ambitions. We are, as a government, ambitions. We are, as a government, committed to breaking down barriers and to support every young people in their education as they move into their education as they move into adult life. And it doesn't matter where they are and what background they have, they all deserve that they have, they all deserve that support. I'm sure this would be a popular backbench debate should my
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Honourable gentleman constituent all the best in his journalistic ambitions. We are, as a government, ambitions. We are, as a government, committed to breaking down barriers and to support every young people in their education as they move into their education as they move into adult life. And it doesn't matter where they are and what background they have, they all deserve that they have, they all deserve that support. I'm sure this would be a popular backbench debate should my
12:32
Jen Craft MP (Thurrock, Labour)
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honourable friend wish to apply for. Thank you very much. Welcome back to speaker ten Side Theatre. built.
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Theatre in. Thurrock. And it has provided a vital cultural. Cultural asset and included. The. First experience of the
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First experience of the performing arts for a number of people, including myself, who taught the boards there for five years as a
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member of Thurrock. Scout Guides. Local Gang Show. My colleagues. And Thurrock Council were desperately searching for a way to
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desperately searching for a way to secure the long. Term future. Of this theatre and the wider complex, recognising that once it's complex, recognising that once it's gone, it's gone. Will the leader allow a debate in government time to talk about the vital importance of
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community. Theatres. And how we can work together to ensure their sustainability.
Jen Craft MP (Thurrock, Labour)
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honourable friend wish to apply for. Thank you very much. Welcome back to speaker ten Side Theatre. built.
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Theatre in. Thurrock. And it has provided a vital cultural. Cultural asset and included. The. First experience of the
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First experience of the performing arts for a number of people, including myself, who taught the boards there for five years as a
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member of Thurrock. Scout Guides. Local Gang Show. My colleagues. And Thurrock Council were desperately searching for a way to
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desperately searching for a way to secure the long. Term future. Of this theatre and the wider complex, recognising that once it's complex, recognising that once it's gone, it's gone. Will the leader allow a debate in government time to talk about the vital importance of
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community. Theatres. And how we can work together to ensure their sustainability.
12:32
Rt Hon Sir Alan Campbell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Tynemouth, Labour)
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ensure their sustainability. Look and fierce and community values are so important to communities. Madam Deputy Speaker, communities. Madam Deputy Speaker, in in all sorts of ways, not least in giving confidence to young people who come forward and take part in events and in shows. My hon. Friend can seek a debate on these matters because it's, I'm sure, shared across the House. But I'll also raise her concerns with the relevant Minister.
Rt Hon Sir Alan Campbell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Tynemouth, Labour)
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ensure their sustainability. Look and fierce and community values are so important to communities. Madam Deputy Speaker, communities. Madam Deputy Speaker, in in all sorts of ways, not least in giving confidence to young people who come forward and take part in events and in shows. My hon. Friend can seek a debate on these matters because it's, I'm sure, shared across the House. But I'll also raise her concerns with the relevant Minister.
12:33
Rt Hon Sir Alan Campbell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Tynemouth, Labour)
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the leader. Secure some time for us to debate this issue, to make sure that parents and their children are being supported properly? Yeah. I thank my honourable friend for
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I thank my honourable friend for his for raising this issue, and I'm very sorry to hear about Chris's situation. I understand Honourable situation. I understand Honourable friend may be in correspondence with the department, and may be either awaiting a reply, or may just have got one DWP orals all next week, but I would, depending on those things, suggest that he follows it up either by meeting ministers in the department or by seeking a debate on the matter, because it will be shared concern across the House.
Rt Hon Sir Alan Campbell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Tynemouth, Labour)
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the leader. Secure some time for us to debate this issue, to make sure that parents and their children are being supported properly? Yeah. I thank my honourable friend for
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I thank my honourable friend for his for raising this issue, and I'm very sorry to hear about Chris's situation. I understand Honourable situation. I understand Honourable friend may be in correspondence with the department, and may be either awaiting a reply, or may just have got one DWP orals all next week, but I would, depending on those things, suggest that he follows it up either by meeting ministers in the department or by seeking a debate on the matter, because it will be shared concern across the House.
12:34
Dan Aldridge MP (Weston-super-Mare, Labour)
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Dan Aldridge MP (Weston-super-Mare, Labour)
Dan Aldridge.
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programme the summer I. Term pretty. I'm personally Team Conrad. He's shown a new audience. That therapy.
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That therapy. Is accessible to young men in a emotions. Would the leader of the. House allocate time for a debate
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programme the summer I. Term pretty. I'm personally Team Conrad. He's shown a new audience. That therapy.
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That therapy. Is accessible to young men in a emotions. Would the leader of the. House allocate time for a debate
12:34
Rt Hon Sir Alan Campbell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Tynemouth, Labour)
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House allocate time for a debate on improving access to. Therapy and mental health support for men?
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Leader my honourable friend is absolutely right to raise this matter, Madam Deputy Speaker, and to champion mental health. Particularly, I have to say, for men Particularly, I have to say, for men in young boys who are often find it difficult to open up their emotions on these matters, our forthcoming Men's Health Strategy will set out how we can find ways to promote healthy behaviour and improve outcomes for conditions that hit men and boys. And should my honourable friend seek a debate, then he may he that he that our plans from the Minister.
Rt Hon Sir Alan Campbell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Tynemouth, Labour)
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House allocate time for a debate on improving access to. Therapy and mental health support for men?
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Leader my honourable friend is absolutely right to raise this matter, Madam Deputy Speaker, and to champion mental health. Particularly, I have to say, for men Particularly, I have to say, for men in young boys who are often find it difficult to open up their emotions on these matters, our forthcoming Men's Health Strategy will set out how we can find ways to promote healthy behaviour and improve outcomes for conditions that hit men and boys. And should my honourable friend seek a debate, then he may he that he that our plans from the Minister.
12:34
Steve Yemm MP (Mansfield, Labour)
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Steve Yemm MP (Mansfield, Labour)
Thank you.
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Madam Deputy Speaker. 11 year old. Jake from. My. Constituency.
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Constituency. Who has. Special educational needs. And. syndrome.
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syndrome. schooling. Provision for this. Year. Because of the failings. Of Nottinghamshire County. Council.
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Council. With the leader of the. House agree with me. That children like.
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Jake should not be left behind. And can the government find time to hold a debate. On how. We can deliver.
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Madam Deputy Speaker. 11 year old. Jake from. My. Constituency.
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Constituency. Who has. Special educational needs. And. syndrome.
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syndrome. schooling. Provision for this. Year. Because of the failings. Of Nottinghamshire County. Council.
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Council. With the leader of the. House agree with me. That children like.
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Jake should not be left behind. And can the government find time to hold a debate. On how. We can deliver.
12:35
Rt Hon Sir Alan Campbell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Tynemouth, Labour)
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We can deliver. The provision that's. Needed for young people. With Send, like my constituent? Yeah.
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Yeah. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. My honourable friend is absolutely right to raise this important matter. The government believes that the system is broken. It doesn't work for children and it doesn't work for their carers. As part of our plan for change, we're committed to creating a new system that truly supports every child and will be setting out our approach in the forthcoming Schools White Paper. I do, however, understand from my own constituency how people are involved. The forefront of this.
Find it hard to know why they have to wait. We've announced an extra billion pounds in extra funding to help schools with additional costs there face, including send provision, and I would encourage whoever has the whichever authority has the power to spend that money, quickly. Deputy.
Rt Hon Sir Alan Campbell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Tynemouth, Labour)
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We can deliver. The provision that's. Needed for young people. With Send, like my constituent? Yeah.
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Yeah. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. My honourable friend is absolutely right to raise this important matter. The government believes that the system is broken. It doesn't work for children and it doesn't work for their carers. As part of our plan for change, we're committed to creating a new system that truly supports every child and will be setting out our approach in the forthcoming Schools White Paper. I do, however, understand from my own constituency how people are involved. The forefront of this.
Find it hard to know why they have to wait. We've announced an extra billion pounds in extra funding to help schools with additional costs there face, including send provision, and I would encourage whoever has the whichever authority has the power to spend that money, quickly. Deputy.
12:36
Johanna Baxter MP (Paisley and Renfrewshire South, Labour)
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Johanna Baxter MP (Paisley and Renfrewshire South, Labour)
Speaker, could I.
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Ask the leader. Of the House if he. Will join. Me in. Paisley.
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In my. Constituency on being. Shortlisted for the Scotland. Gloves Local. Town of the year award?
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Town of the year award? And will. He go. Further and throw his. Full support. the. Best.
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Ask the leader. Of the House if he. Will join. Me in. Paisley.
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In my. Constituency on being. Shortlisted for the Scotland. Gloves Local. Town of the year award?
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Town of the year award? And will. He go. Further and throw his. Full support. the. Best.
12:36
Rt Hon Sir Alan Campbell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Tynemouth, Labour)
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Best. Local town in Scotland? There's a certain risk in doing that, Madam Deputy Speaker, but I that, Madam Deputy Speaker, but I will do it. But I'll certainly will friend in congratulating Paisley. I wish them the best of luck. She raises the important point about pride in communities, and I'm sure her constituents are proud. I hope that that is recognised, and also that she is a proud champion for Paisley.
Rt Hon Sir Alan Campbell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Tynemouth, Labour)
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Best. Local town in Scotland? There's a certain risk in doing that, Madam Deputy Speaker, but I that, Madam Deputy Speaker, but I will do it. But I'll certainly will friend in congratulating Paisley. I wish them the best of luck. She raises the important point about pride in communities, and I'm sure her constituents are proud. I hope that that is recognised, and also that she is a proud champion for Paisley.
12:36
Andrew Lewin MP (Welwyn Hatfield, Labour)
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Andrew Lewin MP (Welwyn Hatfield, Labour)
Andrew Lewin.
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Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I've recently hosted a series of meetings with parents and teachers on the Send system, but there was on the Send system, but there was one moment that was most striking of all. I asked a roomful of parents all. I asked a roomful of parents how many of them knew or suspected that their child had additional needs. Before the age of five, every needs. Before the age of five, every single hand went up. So the Leader of the House consider giving time to a debate dedicated to the importance
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Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I've recently hosted a series of meetings with parents and teachers on the Send system, but there was on the Send system, but there was one moment that was most striking of all. I asked a roomful of parents all. I asked a roomful of parents how many of them knew or suspected that their child had additional needs. Before the age of five, every needs. Before the age of five, every single hand went up. So the Leader of the House consider giving time to a debate dedicated to the importance
12:37
Rt Hon Sir Alan Campbell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Tynemouth, Labour)
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Rt Hon Sir Alan Campbell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Tynemouth, Labour)
a debate dedicated to the importance of early intervention. That's insisting so that we identify problems and support parents and can.
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Leader early intervention is absolutely crucial. Madam Deputy Speaker, which is why the government Speaker, which is why the government is giving such attention to improving the census in which I just said we believe isn't broken and said we believe isn't broken and isn't working at DFA orals are on Monday. I'd invite my hon. Friend to raise this matter then, but also raise this matter then, but also think about a debate on the issue, because this is an issue which will not go away and the government is
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Leader early intervention is absolutely crucial. Madam Deputy Speaker, which is why the government Speaker, which is why the government is giving such attention to improving the census in which I just said we believe isn't broken and said we believe isn't broken and isn't working at DFA orals are on Monday. I'd invite my hon. Friend to raise this matter then, but also raise this matter then, but also think about a debate on the issue, because this is an issue which will not go away and the government is
12:37
Michael Wheeler MP (Worsley and Eccles, Labour)
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not go away and the government is determined to do something about it. Thank you, Madam. Deputy Speaker. Throughout the year I have been
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Throughout the year I have been working with residents in Astley, in my constituency, four. Large warehouses. Each measuring up to 60ft high, a
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Each measuring up to 60ft high, a building being built close to hundreds of houses and. A primary school. Although they. Have.
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Have. Planning consent from the local. Authority. Residents are rightly concerned that the consultation process was
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that the consultation process was not adequate. Will the. Leader of the. House consider a debate on the consultation. Requirements for large
Michael Wheeler MP (Worsley and Eccles, Labour)
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not go away and the government is determined to do something about it. Thank you, Madam. Deputy Speaker. Throughout the year I have been
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Throughout the year I have been working with residents in Astley, in my constituency, four. Large warehouses. Each measuring up to 60ft high, a
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Each measuring up to 60ft high, a building being built close to hundreds of houses and. A primary school. Although they. Have.
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Have. Planning consent from the local. Authority. Residents are rightly concerned that the consultation process was
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that the consultation process was not adequate. Will the. Leader of the. House consider a debate on the consultation. Requirements for large
12:38
Rt Hon Sir Alan Campbell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Tynemouth, Labour)
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consultation. Requirements for large developments to ensure that the. Voices of residents, such as my. Constituents in. Astley. Are heard?
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Are heard? Leader expected Madam Deputy Speaker, local authorities to engage meaningfully with residents when it meaningfully with residents when it comes to planning and planning law requires local planning authorities to notify neighbours regarding to notify neighbours regarding planning applications, either by site, notice or letter, and to publish information about the application on a website. My honourable friend may wish to seek a debate on these matters, not just to highlight the concerns of his constituents, for whom he is a great champion, but also to see what the Minister's response is going to be.
Rt Hon Sir Alan Campbell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Tynemouth, Labour)
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consultation. Requirements for large developments to ensure that the. Voices of residents, such as my. Constituents in. Astley. Are heard?
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Are heard? Leader expected Madam Deputy Speaker, local authorities to engage meaningfully with residents when it meaningfully with residents when it comes to planning and planning law requires local planning authorities to notify neighbours regarding to notify neighbours regarding planning applications, either by site, notice or letter, and to publish information about the application on a website. My honourable friend may wish to seek a debate on these matters, not just to highlight the concerns of his constituents, for whom he is a great champion, but also to see what the Minister's response is going to be.
12:38
Brian Leishman MP (Alloa and Grangemouth, Independent)
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Brian Leishman MP (Alloa and Grangemouth, Independent)
Find a question.
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Brian Leishman. I can. Watch Martin David. He speak out as an enthusiastic but error. Prone goalkeeper. And being.
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And being. A golf. Professional for 23. Years. Many will say that I have still
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Many will say that I have still to find a sport that I am any good at and ID be absolutely correct, but someone from my constituency who is excellent at. Sport is really.
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Sport is really. Henderson from Sauchie. Well, the leader of the. House join. Me. In congratulating rugby for winning a silver and a bronze.
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Brian Leishman. I can. Watch Martin David. He speak out as an enthusiastic but error. Prone goalkeeper. And being.
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And being. A golf. Professional for 23. Years. Many will say that I have still
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Many will say that I have still to find a sport that I am any good at and ID be absolutely correct, but someone from my constituency who is excellent at. Sport is really.
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Sport is really. Henderson from Sauchie. Well, the leader of the. House join. Me. In congratulating rugby for winning a silver and a bronze.
12:39
Rt Hon Sir Alan Campbell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Tynemouth, Labour)
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winning a silver and a bronze. Medal at last. Week's World. Taekwondo Youth Championships in Croatia. Wow.
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Wow. Absolutely, Madam Deputy Speaker, and as you can see, I never found a sport I was very good at either, but sport I was very good at either, but absolutely. Success at sport is fantastic, particularly for young people. It's such an important part of growing confidence and giving pride, and I'm sure that Rudy's
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family and friends and whole community are extraordinarily proud of their achievement. That is the end of.
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That is the end of. Business questions. I'll give the free the frontbenchers a few moments to shuffle over, and we'll get on to to shuffle over, and we'll get on to business of the day. business of the day.
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business of the day. Hi. Yeah. I know the public.
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Hi. Yeah. I know the public. Had raffles for as fast as I could go. I know I get. If the front
Rt Hon Sir Alan Campbell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Tynemouth, Labour)
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winning a silver and a bronze. Medal at last. Week's World. Taekwondo Youth Championships in Croatia. Wow.
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Wow. Absolutely, Madam Deputy Speaker, and as you can see, I never found a sport I was very good at either, but sport I was very good at either, but absolutely. Success at sport is fantastic, particularly for young people. It's such an important part of growing confidence and giving pride, and I'm sure that Rudy's
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family and friends and whole community are extraordinarily proud of their achievement. That is the end of.
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That is the end of. Business questions. I'll give the free the frontbenchers a few moments to shuffle over, and we'll get on to to shuffle over, and we'll get on to business of the day. business of the day.
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business of the day. Hi. Yeah. I know the public.
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Hi. Yeah. I know the public. Had raffles for as fast as I could go. I know I get. If the front
12:40
Legislation: Second reading of the Biodiversity beyond National Jurisdiction Bill
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Legislation: Second reading of the Biodiversity beyond National Jurisdiction Bill
could go. I know I get. If the front benches are finally ready and colleagues are quietly in the places, the. Clerk will now proceed
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to read the orders of the day. Biodiversity Beyond National jurisdiction bill, Second Reading. jurisdiction bill, Second Reading. No. Minister to move. Minister move.
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to read the orders of the day. Biodiversity Beyond National jurisdiction bill, Second Reading. jurisdiction bill, Second Reading. No. Minister to move. Minister move.
12:40
Emma Hardy MP, The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Kingston upon Hull West and Haltemprice, Labour)
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Second Reading. Minister. Thank you so much, Madam Deputy Speaker. And I beg to move that this Speaker. And I beg to move that this bill now be read a second time. I rise to open this debate on the beyond a Biodiversity Beyond National Jurisdiction Bill a landmark piece of legislation that will implement obligations in the United Nations BBA agreement into UK law and enable us to move towards ratification of this historic agreement. I am sure this bill will be welcomed by members across all sides of the House.
And before I begin, I would like to particularly recognise the contribution of members, particularly those in the environment, Food and Rural Affairs Committee, the Environment Audit Committee and the ocean Appg, who have kept oceans issues high on the parliamentary agenda. And of course, and in all fairness, public speaker pay tribute to the previous government who did a lot of work towards this bill as well. I am also personally proud that we are turning words into action. There was a debate in April 2024 where we were debating this, and I was the Shadow Minister, and I did make the commitment that if Labour were lucky enough to win the election, we would fulfil ratification of this treaty.
So I am very pleased to stand here today and say we are. Yeah, I know there will be those in civil
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societies, academia and industry that will be delighted. To. See the introduction of this bill. Organisations like the National Oceanography Centre, the Natural History Museum have provided Natural History Museum have provided invaluable support to the UK delegation and I'd also like to thank the High Seas Alliance and the thank the High Seas Alliance and the WWF. That unwavering commitment, and many of them environmental NGOs. The many of them environmental NGOs. The BPA agreement is a result of years of dialogue and negotiation involving stakeholders from all around the world.
In fact, I was just hearing this morning, speaker, that it originally negotiation that it originally negotiation started in 2012, so it's been quite a while to get to this point. The UK's role in these negotiations was UK's role in these negotiations was informed by the expertise and passion of marine scientists, legal scholars and environmental scholars and environmental advocates, and I'd like to thank them all for their contributions. Madam speaker, the BBA agreement, As Madam speaker, the BBA agreement, As has achieved the 60 ratifications required for its entry into force required for its entry into force and this will happen on the 17th of January, 2026.
We expect the first meeting of the conference of the meeting of the conference of the parties to take place later in 2026, and the UK can only attend this
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meeting as a party if it has ratified the agreement at least 30 days previously. Yes, of course. I'm very grateful.
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To her for. Giving way, and she's absolutely right to say that. There's. Support across the House for.
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Support across the House for. This really important piece. Of legislation. I think she's right, also, to. Pay tribute. To.
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To. The previous government for some of the work. They've done. But it is. True to say.
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That despite in the last Parliament, there be many times where this Parliament didn't have a great deal to debate. We never actually.
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We never actually. book. And right now. Just over one year into this government. When there.
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Is a tremendous amount of. Additional legislation. find. The. Time to get this through. So I
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Time to get this through. So I pay tribute to her, and I think. It's. Worth taking that bit of credit that we are now doing something that
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that we are now doing something that hadn't previously been done. Minister Hardie. Well, I mean, I can't disagree with my hon. Friend for that kind of with my hon. Friend for that kind of and I thank him for his comments. And as I said, it was something I personally committed to when I was a personally committed to when I was a shadow spokesperson. So it meant a lot to me to be able to stand here today and say, I fulfilled that today and say, I fulfilled that promise made in opposition and now into government.
Now we need to pass this bill and the associated secondary legislation before we can secondary legislation before we can take the next steps to ratification. So it's not just about the passage of this bill. It's the size that will follow it. So I know that all will follow it. So I know that all sides of the House will want to see the UK playing a leading role in future discussions of conference of the parties, and that is why we must maintain momentum. This bill marks a significant step in the UK's commitment to protecting two thirds of the world's oceans, which lie beyond the jurisdiction of a single nation.
From one of the heaviest
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fish, the sun, to the delicate sea butterfly, this vast expanse of biodiversity. And.
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Ecosystems that are vital to the health of our planet. It sustains fisheries that feed billions. It underpins weather patterns, coastal protections and the livelihoods of people across the globe. But these people across the globe. But these areas of the ocean are vulnerable to exploitation, derogation and reversible harm.
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Can I thank you. Madam Speaker? Can I agree with the Minister that it's so important in. Terms. Of her.
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Terms. Of her. Engagement with. Various. Stakeholders and the universities? That's crucial. Can I also
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That's crucial. Can I also acknowledge the parts of the bill that underline the role of devolved. Administrations and. The important work?
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The important work? This that has got. To be done? Can she assure me that her official, through working. Closely with.
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The devolved. Administrations on. This international impact, and that will be something. That. Continues throughout this, this,
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this piece of legislation? I thank the honourable gentleman offer. Him that reassurance.
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Him that reassurance. And that is an important point, well made. And the new it marks a historic breakthrough, a historic breakthrough, a multilateral, a treaty adopted under the United Nations Convention on Law of the sea, designed to ensure the conservation and sustainable use of marine biological diversity in areas beyond national jurisdiction. And I'll go into more detail about the bill and what it includes. So this agreement delivers on four critical fronts. First, it established new obligations to share the benefits arising from research into and the use of marine genetic resources from these ocean areas.
Second, it creates a mechanism to establish area based management tools, including marine protected areas, essential steps to safeguard fragile ecosystems. I thank the Minister
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very much for giving way. It is great that the. UK is finally ratifying. This treaty, and it's also great to see the minister start to talk about the benefits of marine protected areas. But if this bill is to signify a new, invigorated to signify a new, invigorated government focus on protecting our precious marine environment, does she not agree with me that the she not agree with me that the terrible, destructive fishing practice of bottom trawling, which obliterates vital habitats on our seabed, it makes a mockery of the entire term marine protected Area
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entire term marine protected Area that the UK government has ignored the. Environmental Audit. Committee's advice to. Ban bottom trawling from our own
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Ban bottom trawling from our own marine protected areas. Minister Hardie, I thank the honourable lady for her intervention. Of course, for her intervention. Of course, domestic marine protected areas are not within the remit of this bill because we're talking about areas beyond national jurisdiction and what I can say that the British, the UK government has done, as we have introduced a consultation which is looking at banning bottom trawling in 41 of our marine protected areas, in 41 of our marine protected areas, and that consultation is out now.
So we're showing not only our commitment to oceans on an international scale, but our international scale, but our commitment to oceans on a national scale as well. Third, it strengthens the framework for environmental the framework for environmental impact assessments, building on the provisions of the UN convention on the law of the sea, to ensure that new activities in these areas are sustainable and was responsible. And fourth, it reinforced capacity building for developing states and promotes broader technological transfer. So the journey for the agreement started with an ad hoc informal working group in 2006 to a preparatory commission that worked in 2016 and 17, culminating in a formal inter-governmental conference
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which negotiated the text between 2018 and 23. And the UK. Has. Already played a leading role in
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Already played a leading role in shaping this agreement over the course of more than a decade of negotiations. And in September 23rd, negotiations. And in September 23rd, we were one of the first countries to sign the agreement when it opens for signature at the UN. And today, for signature at the UN. And today, through this bill, the UK takes a major step towards ratification. So let me begin by outlining the structure of the bill. The bill is divided into five parts. Parts two, divided into five parts.
Parts two, three and four are designed to correspond and give effect to the three core sections of the BP Energy Agreement relating to Marine Genetic Resources, area based management tool and environmental impact assessments.
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assessments. And first of all, can I thank the Minister for bringing forward and UN Minister for bringing forward and UN for her deep interest in this subject? But I'm all very impressed by what the Minister does and thank by what the Minister does and thank her for that. Further to the no question or of the Ombudsman for our Bruce Smith and relation to fishing Bruce Smith and relation to fishing and particularly marine biodiversity as the lifeblood of the fishing as the lifeblood of the fishing industry, as an MP of a coastal community, as I know, Arbroath and I both are.
We have often said that the fishermen are the greatest natural caretakers of the sea, so those and will the Minister agree that the input of the fishing sector and the generational knowledge that they harbour is essential as we move
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forward? Thank you so much. Mr. Harvey. I thank my Honourable friend for his intervention. And of friend for his intervention. And of course, I pay tribute to all of the fishermen throughout our country and in the United Kingdom, who play such in the United Kingdom, who play such a vital role in helping to feed our nation. So this bill also ensures the UK has the necessary powers to the UK has the necessary powers to implement the decisions adopted at future meetings of the BBA conference of the parties, beginning conference of the parties, beginning with the Marine Genetic Resource Provision.
Part two of the Bill sets out the requirements related to the out the requirements related to the collection and use of marine genetic resources from areas beyond national jurisdiction and digital sequence information generated on those marine genetic resources. These measures mean that the UK researchers conducting collection researchers conducting collection activities from UK craft or equipment such as Royal Research Ships or TMA systems, will need to notify a national focal point within the Fcdo before and after the collection of these resources.
Additionally, any uses of marine genetic resources or digital sequence information will need to sequence information will need to notify the national focal point once results of utilisation are available, and make those results available, and make those results available in publicly accessible repositories or databases. The results of utilisation, including results of utilisation, including publications like journal articles and patents granted, detailing the outcome of Research and Development on these resources. These notifications will provide valuable data on material collected and on the results of research in areas beyond national jurisdiction.
These notifications will be passed on to a clearinghouse mechanism, a core part of the future architecture of the BBA agreement. The clearinghouse mechanism will act as a global online notification hub, where parties to the agreement will submit their notifications, allowing researchers from the UK and elsewhere to see what is being collected from where and how it is being used. This function is key to the benefit sharing mechanisms under the agreement, enabling researchers from developing countries to work from the same scientific data as a researcher in the UK.
This will also facilitate the development of cross-national research groups crucial to supporting breakthrough scientific discoveries. The measures in the bill also require repositories and institutions holding marine genetic resources to provide access to samples under reasonable conditions. This will apply to bodies like the Natural History Museum, The Natural, O.C, Ography Centre and UK universities. Similarly, UK databases containing digital sequence information from marine genetic resources will need to ensure public access. Marine genetic resources may hold the future to key medicines, enzymes and sustainable technologies.
This is a fast growing global sector and our universities and biotech firms are world leaders. Taken together, these measures will allow our researchers and companies to remain at the cutting edge of marine genetic discovery, benefiting from and contributing to global research in this space. Part three of the bill provides powers to allow the UK to implement internationally agreed measures in relation to marine protected areas and other area based management tools established in areas beyond national jurisdiction. Any such measures will be agreed in meetings of the conference of the parties, and will aim to manage activities in geographically defined areas of the ocean to achieve conservation and sustainable use objectives.
This part of the Bill also ensures that the UK is able to implement any emergency measures adopted by the conference of the parties to respond to any natural or man made disasters in areas beyond national jurisdiction, which may require, for example, restrictions on navigation of UK ships or discharges from UK crafts. Part four of the bill updates domestic marine licensing legislation to meet the environmental impact assessment requirements set out in the agreement. These changes apply to Licensable marine activities that take place in areas beyond national jurisdiction.
It provides the power needed to adapt the UK's domestic licensing, a marine licensing and related environmental assessment system, as new international standards and guidelines are agreed by the BBA conference of the parties. For example, this may include applying the latest standards for environmental assessments or for the ongoing monitoring of impacts. In short, this will futureproof the UK's marine licensing legislation, ensuring we can keep pace with emergency technologies and activities in areas beyond national jurisdiction. In addition to the BBA bill, secondary legislation is required before the UK can formally ratify the BBA agreement.
We will need to make changes to domestic legislation in order to implement the BBA agreement. Provisions relating to environmental impact assessments and to define digital sequence information. These issues require engagement with stakeholders, and statutory instruments will be laid before Parliament and after the Bill receives Royal Assent. Once the secondary legislation is in force, a standard six week process allows to finalise the instrument of ratification, which includes signature and the formal submission to the United Nations. Madam Deputy Speaker, the provisions within the bill may appear to be narrow and technical, but once implemented, they will enable the UK to participate fully in global efforts to conserve and sustainably use the ocean beyond national jurisdiction.
Working with our international partners, the BBA agreement will allow us to safeguard, safeguard fragile ecosystems, protect endangered species and ensure that scientific benefits are shared fairly and responsibly. This bill is rooted in this government's broader environmental and international goals. We are protecting and improving the marine environment at home and internationally to meet the global commitment to protect 30% of the world's ocean by 2030, and this bill is a key instrument in delivering that goal. This bill supports our efforts to maintain multilateral agreements and international governance as the bedrock of our global community, and to address collectively the biggest issues of our generation climate change, food insecurity and harm to marine environments.
Issues that affect not just the UK, but every nation on Earth. I hope that members will recognise the urgency and importance of this moment. The ocean cannot wait and the consequences of inaction are profound. This bill is an opportunity to act, to protect me marine life, to support sustainable development, and to ensure that the benefits of the ocean are shared fairly and responsibly. I commend
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this bill to the House. The question is that the bill be. Now read a second time.
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And I called a. Shadow. Minister Andrew Rosindell. Here. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker,
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Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker, Minister. For her explanation of. This bill. It is. A very.
Emma Hardy MP, The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Kingston upon Hull West and Haltemprice, Labour)
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Second Reading. Minister. Thank you so much, Madam Deputy Speaker. And I beg to move that this Speaker. And I beg to move that this bill now be read a second time. I rise to open this debate on the beyond a Biodiversity Beyond National Jurisdiction Bill a landmark piece of legislation that will implement obligations in the United Nations BBA agreement into UK law and enable us to move towards ratification of this historic agreement. I am sure this bill will be welcomed by members across all sides of the House.
And before I begin, I would like to particularly recognise the contribution of members, particularly those in the environment, Food and Rural Affairs Committee, the Environment Audit Committee and the ocean Appg, who have kept oceans issues high on the parliamentary agenda. And of course, and in all fairness, public speaker pay tribute to the previous government who did a lot of work towards this bill as well. I am also personally proud that we are turning words into action. There was a debate in April 2024 where we were debating this, and I was the Shadow Minister, and I did make the commitment that if Labour were lucky enough to win the election, we would fulfil ratification of this treaty.
So I am very pleased to stand here today and say we are. Yeah, I know there will be those in civil
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societies, academia and industry that will be delighted. To. See the introduction of this bill. Organisations like the National Oceanography Centre, the Natural History Museum have provided Natural History Museum have provided invaluable support to the UK delegation and I'd also like to thank the High Seas Alliance and the thank the High Seas Alliance and the WWF. That unwavering commitment, and many of them environmental NGOs. The many of them environmental NGOs. The BPA agreement is a result of years of dialogue and negotiation involving stakeholders from all around the world.
In fact, I was just hearing this morning, speaker, that it originally negotiation that it originally negotiation started in 2012, so it's been quite a while to get to this point. The UK's role in these negotiations was UK's role in these negotiations was informed by the expertise and passion of marine scientists, legal scholars and environmental scholars and environmental advocates, and I'd like to thank them all for their contributions. Madam speaker, the BBA agreement, As Madam speaker, the BBA agreement, As has achieved the 60 ratifications required for its entry into force required for its entry into force and this will happen on the 17th of January, 2026.
We expect the first meeting of the conference of the meeting of the conference of the parties to take place later in 2026, and the UK can only attend this
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meeting as a party if it has ratified the agreement at least 30 days previously. Yes, of course. I'm very grateful.
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To her for. Giving way, and she's absolutely right to say that. There's. Support across the House for.
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Support across the House for. This really important piece. Of legislation. I think she's right, also, to. Pay tribute. To.
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To. The previous government for some of the work. They've done. But it is. True to say.
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That despite in the last Parliament, there be many times where this Parliament didn't have a great deal to debate. We never actually.
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We never actually. book. And right now. Just over one year into this government. When there.
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Is a tremendous amount of. Additional legislation. find. The. Time to get this through. So I
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Time to get this through. So I pay tribute to her, and I think. It's. Worth taking that bit of credit that we are now doing something that
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that we are now doing something that hadn't previously been done. Minister Hardie. Well, I mean, I can't disagree with my hon. Friend for that kind of with my hon. Friend for that kind of and I thank him for his comments. And as I said, it was something I personally committed to when I was a personally committed to when I was a shadow spokesperson. So it meant a lot to me to be able to stand here today and say, I fulfilled that today and say, I fulfilled that promise made in opposition and now into government.
Now we need to pass this bill and the associated secondary legislation before we can secondary legislation before we can take the next steps to ratification. So it's not just about the passage of this bill. It's the size that will follow it. So I know that all will follow it. So I know that all sides of the House will want to see the UK playing a leading role in future discussions of conference of the parties, and that is why we must maintain momentum. This bill marks a significant step in the UK's commitment to protecting two thirds of the world's oceans, which lie beyond the jurisdiction of a single nation.
From one of the heaviest
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fish, the sun, to the delicate sea butterfly, this vast expanse of biodiversity. And.
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Ecosystems that are vital to the health of our planet. It sustains fisheries that feed billions. It underpins weather patterns, coastal protections and the livelihoods of people across the globe. But these people across the globe. But these areas of the ocean are vulnerable to exploitation, derogation and reversible harm.
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Can I thank you. Madam Speaker? Can I agree with the Minister that it's so important in. Terms. Of her.
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Terms. Of her. Engagement with. Various. Stakeholders and the universities? That's crucial. Can I also
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That's crucial. Can I also acknowledge the parts of the bill that underline the role of devolved. Administrations and. The important work?
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The important work? This that has got. To be done? Can she assure me that her official, through working. Closely with.
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The devolved. Administrations on. This international impact, and that will be something. That. Continues throughout this, this,
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this piece of legislation? I thank the honourable gentleman offer. Him that reassurance.
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Him that reassurance. And that is an important point, well made. And the new it marks a historic breakthrough, a historic breakthrough, a multilateral, a treaty adopted under the United Nations Convention on Law of the sea, designed to ensure the conservation and sustainable use of marine biological diversity in areas beyond national jurisdiction. And I'll go into more detail about the bill and what it includes. So this agreement delivers on four critical fronts. First, it established new obligations to share the benefits arising from research into and the use of marine genetic resources from these ocean areas.
Second, it creates a mechanism to establish area based management tools, including marine protected areas, essential steps to safeguard fragile ecosystems. I thank the Minister
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very much for giving way. It is great that the. UK is finally ratifying. This treaty, and it's also great to see the minister start to talk about the benefits of marine protected areas. But if this bill is to signify a new, invigorated to signify a new, invigorated government focus on protecting our precious marine environment, does she not agree with me that the she not agree with me that the terrible, destructive fishing practice of bottom trawling, which obliterates vital habitats on our seabed, it makes a mockery of the entire term marine protected Area
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entire term marine protected Area that the UK government has ignored the. Environmental Audit. Committee's advice to. Ban bottom trawling from our own
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Ban bottom trawling from our own marine protected areas. Minister Hardie, I thank the honourable lady for her intervention. Of course, for her intervention. Of course, domestic marine protected areas are not within the remit of this bill because we're talking about areas beyond national jurisdiction and what I can say that the British, the UK government has done, as we have introduced a consultation which is looking at banning bottom trawling in 41 of our marine protected areas, in 41 of our marine protected areas, and that consultation is out now.
So we're showing not only our commitment to oceans on an international scale, but our international scale, but our commitment to oceans on a national scale as well. Third, it strengthens the framework for environmental the framework for environmental impact assessments, building on the provisions of the UN convention on the law of the sea, to ensure that new activities in these areas are sustainable and was responsible. And fourth, it reinforced capacity building for developing states and promotes broader technological transfer. So the journey for the agreement started with an ad hoc informal working group in 2006 to a preparatory commission that worked in 2016 and 17, culminating in a formal inter-governmental conference
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which negotiated the text between 2018 and 23. And the UK. Has. Already played a leading role in
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Already played a leading role in shaping this agreement over the course of more than a decade of negotiations. And in September 23rd, negotiations. And in September 23rd, we were one of the first countries to sign the agreement when it opens for signature at the UN. And today, for signature at the UN. And today, through this bill, the UK takes a major step towards ratification. So let me begin by outlining the structure of the bill. The bill is divided into five parts. Parts two, divided into five parts.
Parts two, three and four are designed to correspond and give effect to the three core sections of the BP Energy Agreement relating to Marine Genetic Resources, area based management tool and environmental impact assessments.
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assessments. And first of all, can I thank the Minister for bringing forward and UN Minister for bringing forward and UN for her deep interest in this subject? But I'm all very impressed by what the Minister does and thank by what the Minister does and thank her for that. Further to the no question or of the Ombudsman for our Bruce Smith and relation to fishing Bruce Smith and relation to fishing and particularly marine biodiversity as the lifeblood of the fishing as the lifeblood of the fishing industry, as an MP of a coastal community, as I know, Arbroath and I both are.
We have often said that the fishermen are the greatest natural caretakers of the sea, so those and will the Minister agree that the input of the fishing sector and the generational knowledge that they harbour is essential as we move
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forward? Thank you so much. Mr. Harvey. I thank my Honourable friend for his intervention. And of friend for his intervention. And of course, I pay tribute to all of the fishermen throughout our country and in the United Kingdom, who play such in the United Kingdom, who play such a vital role in helping to feed our nation. So this bill also ensures the UK has the necessary powers to the UK has the necessary powers to implement the decisions adopted at future meetings of the BBA conference of the parties, beginning conference of the parties, beginning with the Marine Genetic Resource Provision.
Part two of the Bill sets out the requirements related to the out the requirements related to the collection and use of marine genetic resources from areas beyond national jurisdiction and digital sequence information generated on those marine genetic resources. These measures mean that the UK researchers conducting collection researchers conducting collection activities from UK craft or equipment such as Royal Research Ships or TMA systems, will need to notify a national focal point within the Fcdo before and after the collection of these resources.
Additionally, any uses of marine genetic resources or digital sequence information will need to sequence information will need to notify the national focal point once results of utilisation are available, and make those results available, and make those results available in publicly accessible repositories or databases. The results of utilisation, including results of utilisation, including publications like journal articles and patents granted, detailing the outcome of Research and Development on these resources. These notifications will provide valuable data on material collected and on the results of research in areas beyond national jurisdiction.
These notifications will be passed on to a clearinghouse mechanism, a core part of the future architecture of the BBA agreement. The clearinghouse mechanism will act as a global online notification hub, where parties to the agreement will submit their notifications, allowing researchers from the UK and elsewhere to see what is being collected from where and how it is being used. This function is key to the benefit sharing mechanisms under the agreement, enabling researchers from developing countries to work from the same scientific data as a researcher in the UK.
This will also facilitate the development of cross-national research groups crucial to supporting breakthrough scientific discoveries. The measures in the bill also require repositories and institutions holding marine genetic resources to provide access to samples under reasonable conditions. This will apply to bodies like the Natural History Museum, The Natural, O.C, Ography Centre and UK universities. Similarly, UK databases containing digital sequence information from marine genetic resources will need to ensure public access. Marine genetic resources may hold the future to key medicines, enzymes and sustainable technologies.
This is a fast growing global sector and our universities and biotech firms are world leaders. Taken together, these measures will allow our researchers and companies to remain at the cutting edge of marine genetic discovery, benefiting from and contributing to global research in this space. Part three of the bill provides powers to allow the UK to implement internationally agreed measures in relation to marine protected areas and other area based management tools established in areas beyond national jurisdiction. Any such measures will be agreed in meetings of the conference of the parties, and will aim to manage activities in geographically defined areas of the ocean to achieve conservation and sustainable use objectives.
This part of the Bill also ensures that the UK is able to implement any emergency measures adopted by the conference of the parties to respond to any natural or man made disasters in areas beyond national jurisdiction, which may require, for example, restrictions on navigation of UK ships or discharges from UK crafts. Part four of the bill updates domestic marine licensing legislation to meet the environmental impact assessment requirements set out in the agreement. These changes apply to Licensable marine activities that take place in areas beyond national jurisdiction.
It provides the power needed to adapt the UK's domestic licensing, a marine licensing and related environmental assessment system, as new international standards and guidelines are agreed by the BBA conference of the parties. For example, this may include applying the latest standards for environmental assessments or for the ongoing monitoring of impacts. In short, this will futureproof the UK's marine licensing legislation, ensuring we can keep pace with emergency technologies and activities in areas beyond national jurisdiction. In addition to the BBA bill, secondary legislation is required before the UK can formally ratify the BBA agreement.
We will need to make changes to domestic legislation in order to implement the BBA agreement. Provisions relating to environmental impact assessments and to define digital sequence information. These issues require engagement with stakeholders, and statutory instruments will be laid before Parliament and after the Bill receives Royal Assent. Once the secondary legislation is in force, a standard six week process allows to finalise the instrument of ratification, which includes signature and the formal submission to the United Nations. Madam Deputy Speaker, the provisions within the bill may appear to be narrow and technical, but once implemented, they will enable the UK to participate fully in global efforts to conserve and sustainably use the ocean beyond national jurisdiction.
Working with our international partners, the BBA agreement will allow us to safeguard, safeguard fragile ecosystems, protect endangered species and ensure that scientific benefits are shared fairly and responsibly. This bill is rooted in this government's broader environmental and international goals. We are protecting and improving the marine environment at home and internationally to meet the global commitment to protect 30% of the world's ocean by 2030, and this bill is a key instrument in delivering that goal. This bill supports our efforts to maintain multilateral agreements and international governance as the bedrock of our global community, and to address collectively the biggest issues of our generation climate change, food insecurity and harm to marine environments.
Issues that affect not just the UK, but every nation on Earth. I hope that members will recognise the urgency and importance of this moment. The ocean cannot wait and the consequences of inaction are profound. This bill is an opportunity to act, to protect me marine life, to support sustainable development, and to ensure that the benefits of the ocean are shared fairly and responsibly. I commend
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this bill to the House. The question is that the bill be. Now read a second time.
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And I called a. Shadow. Minister Andrew Rosindell. Here. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker,
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Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker, Minister. For her explanation of. This bill. It is. A very.
12:55
Andrew Rosindell MP (Romford, Conservative)
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A very. Important piece of legislation, and I. Thank her for. under.
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under. The previous government. I hope there will. Be. A consensus. But there are many. Questions to
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But there are many. Questions to be answered, and we. Need to go into this. to. Make. Sure that there.
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Sure that there. Are not unintended consequences. And so. Madam Deputy Speaker. No one, nobody.
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No one, nobody. In this House doubts the oceans.
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oceans. They belong to us all. The high seas belong to. Every nation.
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Every nation. On this planet and the United Kingdom. As a.
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Proud seafaring nation and a. World leader in natural sciences with no. Less.
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Less. Than 16. Overseas territories spanning. For now, at least.
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spanning. For now, at least. All five of the world's. Major oceans. Has always. Led the. World in.
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Safeguarding them. The protection of. Our oceans is. One of the.
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One of the. Defining challenges of. Our age. Two thirds.
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Two thirds. Of the world's oceans. Lie beyond. The jurisdiction. Of any single. Nation.
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Nation. And those. Waters. Are home to a vast array. Of.
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Life that sustain the planet's ecosystems. Madam Deputy.
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Speaker, Britain depends on the seas. For our trade. It has been a moat.
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For our national. Security. And it has been our bridge to.
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And it has been our bridge to. The wider world. We therefore. Have not only. A. Moral duty. To protect them.
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To protect them. But also a strategic one. One of the core. Values of. The. Small sea.
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Small sea. Conservatism that I believe. In. As the name suggests, is to.
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As the name suggests, is to. Conserve things that truly matter. This is not only something that applies to.
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applies to. Our institutions and our way of life here in these islands, but also. The preservation of. Our.
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Our. Green and. Pleasant land, and in this case,
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that of the marine biodiversity, so. That we can hand on to. Our descendants. The natural.
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The natural. Beauty that I know we all. Cherish. And that principle. Is certainly. Not in.
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Not in. Question today by anyone in this. House. Of any party. And nowhere.
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And nowhere. Is that record. Clearer than in. The crown. Jewel of. Our leadership on. Blue.
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Blue. Belt programme. Through it, the United Kingdom and our overseas territories have.
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territories have. Created over four point. 4,000,000km² of. Marine.
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Marine. Protected areas from the South Atlantic. And the.
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Pacific to the Indian Ocean. These waters safeguard king penguins These waters safeguard king penguins on the Falkland Islands, the. Green turtles on Ascension Island and grey reef sharks.
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reef sharks. On the Pitcairn. Islands, and countless other
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species across the globe. I've had the privilege to visit both the. Falkland Islands. And. Ascension Islands.
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And to. See the amazing. Biodiversity that we are. Responsible for, and the oceans
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Responsible for, and the oceans around those. Territories are vital to protect. It is one. Of the largest networks of
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protected ocean. On Earth. And it exists. Because of. British leadership.
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British leadership. Alongside the governments. Of the British Overseas Territories.
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We granted those creatures and their habitats protection. From exploitation. By others.
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By others. Protection from industrial fishing fleets, from. Countries that would plunder our.
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Countries that would plunder our. thought. And that is something this. Nation should.
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Be immensely proud of. I will certainly. I listened carefully to what he's saying, and he's absolutely right in relation to the blue belt. But I wondered whether or not he therefore wondered whether or not he therefore regretted, in all the debates that we've had about the Chagos Islands, that the party opposite have not
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raised the. Importance of the conservation of the fish stocks and the biodiversity around those islands. Well.
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The chairman. Of the Foreign Affairs Committee, I'm. Afraid, is incorrect. We have raised these issues.
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On many occasions. I have personally raised them on countless occasions over the years. And before too long. The honourable.
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The Right honourable member will hear a bit more about. About the Chagos Islands. And the importance of protecting
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And the importance of protecting marine stocks and biodiversity in that part of the world. And so, Madam.
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Deputy Speaker, I fear that the government at this stage, despite
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government at this stage, despite what's been said today, is riding roughshod over that record. Undermining those.
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Undermining those. Very. Principles through their. Abject surrender. Of one of those.
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Of one of those. Marine protected areas. The British Indian. Ocean Territory may British Indian. Ocean Territory may look like a scattering of remote sea atolls in a far flung region. The atolls in a far flung region. The planet. But they are home to
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planet. But they are home to 640,000km² of ocean. One. Of the most pristine marine
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ecosystems on the earth, an area. Of. Ocean the size of France. And within it. Leave more.
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Than a. Thousand species. Of fish. Over 200. 200 species of coral in
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Over 200. 200 species of coral in which I've had. The opportunity. To see for. Myself in.
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Myself in. 2019, when I visited the Chagos of.
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of. Poros Banos, where I. Was. Greeted by. The wonderful chigozie and.
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The wonderful chigozie and. Coconut crabs. As I jumped out of the dinghy and walked onto the beach. And into the uninhabited
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island, we shamefully, shamefully. Refused to allow. The people.
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The people. To live there and forced them to leave their homes all. Those years leave their homes all. Those years ago. And so it is. Waters in its waters shelter seabirds.
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waters shelter seabirds. Turtles, dolphins. It is an environmental treasure. That the world.
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That the world. Envies, and that Britain. Has rightly protected over so many
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years. Of course. Can I can I thank the. Honourable gentleman for giving way? Is he aware that Mauritius is actually one
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aware that Mauritius is actually one of the early signatories. Of the UN. Global Oceans Treaty? And so therefore, I'm not sure what his
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therefore, I'm not sure what his point is. I think I. Think the. Honourable member should. Examine how Mauritius. Actually behave in reality.
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Actually behave in reality. And I'll come on to that a bit later. I think that it is very. Clear that.
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Clear that. If you. Want a. to. Take these issues seriously, it's the United Kingdom. It's easy to.
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the United Kingdom. It's easy to. Sign a treaty. It's not so. Easy to follow. That through. In practice.
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In practice. believe. In an act. Of historic. Folly. This government are to
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Folly. This government are to hand that amazing territory over to Mauritius. That nation does not have a record, the capability or the will to protect such a fragile environment. Its own waters have
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suffered from overfishing and poor. Enforcement. And its close alignment. With China. And. Indeed India.
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Indeed India. Should concern anyone who cares about the Indian Ocean's future. Indeed.
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Indeed. The evidence speaks for itself. In the 2024.
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Environmental Performance Index. Mauritius ranked 109th in Marine. Key Biodiversity.
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Key Biodiversity. Area protection, with a score of. Just.
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Just. 0.8 out of 183rd for the. Marine habitat. Protection and 131st.
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Protection and 131st. For marine protection. Stringency. Down nearly 78%.
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Down nearly 78%. Are these the credentials. Of. A nation ready to steward one.
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Of the world's most delicate ecosystems? The government. Appears to think so I disagree,
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yes, I'll certainly give away. I was just wondering whether he. Finds himself.
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Finds himself. In the wrong debate. Yes. Order. I am overseeing. The debate. If it was the wrong
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The debate. If it was the wrong debate, I would have pointed it out. Andrew Rosindell. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker.
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Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. Some of us do care about our British Overseas Territories and the marine environment. Some of us have argued
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for this for many, many. Years, as have many. On the. Other. Side of.
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The chamber. And I do think. That if we are to take this seriously. We need to take our. Responsibilities seriously.
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And otherwise. It is future generations, not just in this. Country. But across.
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But across. The world, who will look back at this debate. And. Think, actually in what we're on.
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Earth were they. Doing giving away. Such a vital part of the planet that we are responsible for? So if I may continue. So either the government truly believe Mauritius government truly believe Mauritius will we will reverse course and persuade. China to respect marine
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persuade. China to respect marine protected area or, as I'm afraid. The Chagos Surrender Treaty implies, we shall. End up.
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End up. Doing the heavy lifting while. Paying for the privilege. Forgive me for not being entirely
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Forgive me for not being entirely convinced, Madam Deputy Speaker, but I do not believe that these are the statistics of a nation. Ready to statistics of a nation. Ready to take on the responsibility of one of the world's most delicate. scientific.
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scientific. Assessments show. That live. Coral cover in. Mauritian waters have fallen. By.
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By. Up to 70%. In the late. 1990s, while coastal erosion and.
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Reef degradation. Nations.
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Nations. Review in. 2022 found that environmental. Laws on paper enforcement is inconsistent. Community involvement
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inconsistent. Community involvement is limited, and responses to. Emerging threats. Such as.
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Such as. inadequate. And, unbelievably, seabirds.
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And, unbelievably, seabirds. Seagrass beds, vital carbon storage, which is vital for carbon storage and marine biodiversity.
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storage and marine biodiversity. for. Tourism developments. So. Madam Deputy. Speaker. Is it really.
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Is it really. The environmental. Guardian that. Ministers entrust.
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With 640,000km² of some of the most pristine ocean on Earth? It beggars belief, and we need to look
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beggars belief, and we need to look around the world to see what happens when Chinese. Fishing interests move in. In Ecuador. Thousands of
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In Ecuador. Thousands of octopuses and sharks have been left dead on the shore. Because of illegal fishing by
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Because of illegal fishing by Chinese vessels. We need. To guard against. This in future. Off the coast of Ghana.
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Off the coast of Ghana. Fishermen's catches have fallen by 40% due to Chinese. Bottom trawlers decimating local.
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Bottom trawlers decimating local. Fish stocks. Around the Korean. Peninsula. Squid populations have collapsed. By.
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70%. And I hope. That this legislation. And this. Agreement will.
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Help to protect the oceans. Around the. World and. Countries where there are no protections. Taking place. At the moment.
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So if. The Chagos Islands. Are handed. Over, the same fleets will. Soon appear.
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Soon appear. In some of those waters. And Chagos will. Be at the mercy of exploitation.
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Be at the mercy of exploitation. This is the context in which the House considers. The Biodiversity Beyond National jurisdiction Bill. It runs.
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jurisdiction Bill. It runs. To 26. Sections, as the Minister has run.
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run. Through them all today. But no. Doubt in committee stage we will
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look at these in greater detail. There are, however, several points that must. Be added to the.
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Be added to the. Debate today on ratification. When will it happen? Section 25. Of the. Bill indeed provides.
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Bill indeed provides. For the. Commencement commencement. Of regulation, but without any. Statutory deadline.
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Statutory deadline. Or parliamentary. Trigger. Leaving ratification entirely. At the discretion of.
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the discretion of. The. Secretary of State. specifically.
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specifically. reaching. Powers to the. Secretary of. State to make. Regulations to.
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Amend. Existing Acts. Of Parliament by. Secondary
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Of Parliament by. Secondary legislation. Where, then is Parliament's role. In that? How will the House.
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In that? How will the House. Conference. Of Parties under. The agreement?
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The agreement? Will we be consulted. Before international. Rules are. Imposed on British.
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Imposed on British. Institutions and industries? Will British waters or those of
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Will British waters or those of our overseas. Territories ever fall under the jurisdiction of foreign or under the jurisdiction of foreign or a supranational supranational regulator? We surely cannot allow regulator? We surely cannot allow global bureaucracy to override British parliamentary sovereignty. And beyond that question of control And beyond that question of control lies the spectre of bureaucracy itself. Sections two and three impose heavy reporting duties on marine research and genetic marine research and genetic sampling. Section 16 allows still more procedures by regulation.
So has the department assessed what this will cost in time and money for this will cost in time and money for our scientists, shipping operators and legitimate researchers? How will small British enterprises compete if they face mountains of paperwork, while less scrupulous nations exploit the same waters freely? We all support high standards, but in the world we currently live in, we cannot afford to lose innovation or competitiveness. Then there is the matter of expense. The impact assessment admits that compliance licensing enforcement will not be cheap, yet provides little detail on who pays.
At a time of fiscal restraint with every department, when every department must justify every pound spent. Can the Minister explain whether this will truly be the best use of taxpayers money? How much would it cost to implement the change regime in full? Will the task of monitoring fall to the Royal Navy or the Marine Management Organisation, and what extra resources will they receive to do the job? What is the cost benefit ratio, and has the government assessed whether there could be indirect impacts on the taxpayer, and what are the impact on British industries, on fishermen, on offshore energy and biotechnology? And so can the minister assure us that British fishermen will not face restrictions that are energy sector, will not be burdened by impractical licensing, and demands that our
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biotech pioneers will not find their discoveries trapped in international bureaucracy. I thank the honourable gentleman
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I thank the honourable gentleman giving me, and I wonder if I could offer some helpful clarity for this offer some helpful clarity for this debate. So this debate is on and this debate is on beyond national jurisdiction, beyond giving a clue to the fact that it's not in British waters. So therefore, the points waters. So therefore, the points raised about how much impact the high seas will have on offshore wind high seas will have on offshore wind development might not be entirely valid.
And the points made about the impact on British fishermen fishing impact on British fishermen fishing in UK waters again might not be covered by the beyond national covered by the beyond national Jurisdiction International Ocean Treaty, so I wonder if it might be helpful that if, alongside the Bill,
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helpful that if, alongside the Bill, he reads the explanatory notes. Yeah. Well, I think the Minister will
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Well, I think the Minister will have plenty of time to explain all these questions in detail at committee stage. This is Second Reading, and this is where we Reading, and this is where we actually raise issues of concern. So I look forward to committee stage and I look forward to all my questions, if not today, being questions, if not today, being answered at that stage of the bill. But I do thank her for her intervention. So, Madam Deputy intervention. So, Madam Deputy Speaker, what safeguards will protect British intellectual property in marine genetic research? Will the benefit sharing provisions prevent our scientists from developing the fruits of their own work? And will other nations shoulder equal obligations, or will Britain be left carrying the cost because we are doing the right thing and others are not? Our research institutions are some of the most prestigious global leaders in the marine sector, whether that's the Natural History Museum, the National Oceanography Centre or our magnificent universities.
And so, first and foremost, there must be a guarantee from the government that this bill does not drown them in red tape. Section 20 rightly extends the bill's provision to the British overseas territories. They are, as I've said before, central to our environmental success story from the Pitcairn Islands, with their 35 residents to Tristan da Cunha, home to barely 240 residents, these far flung Britons have shown what small communities can achieve for global conservation when they have British support.
But how can they have confidence in the government's assurances when they witness what is happening in shakes? If ministers are willing to trade away one British territory without consultation or consent, what message does that send to the rest? Madam Deputy Speaker, I would remind the House that conservation, with the loss of sovereignty and without credible means of enforcement, is a hollow virtue. The United Kingdom has a record to be proud of. From Captain Cook to David Attenborough. And so we must build on that record and not undermine it with rushed ratification.
If ministers will answer the questions that I have laid out, if they will commit in statute to parliamentary oversight a full, costed implementation plan, explicit safeguards to British science and intellectual property, and legally enforceable protections for the British Overseas territories, then many on these benches will consider how to support measures that genuinely conserve our seas. If they will not, then I and others.
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Yes. Can I just can I just check your
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Can I just can I just check your Mr. Thank you. I was literally about to get there, Madam Deputy Speaker. So if there, Madam Deputy Speaker. So if they will not, I and others will oppose any step that weakens Britain's hand. I end, Madam Deputy Speaker, where I began our principles on this side of the House as conservatives is that we want to as conservatives is that we want to conserve and keep safe, to steward and defend what we are responsible and defend what we are responsible for.
We must be true to that principle. We must continue to act principle. We must continue to act as custodians of the seas in a way that respects our sovereignty, honours our obligations to our descendants, and protects the livelihoods and ecosystems. That depends on the United Kingdom.
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depends on the United Kingdom. Sarah Champion. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. Madam Deputy Speaker, I'm. Really proud to be. Standing here today because. It is.
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It is. An. Incredibly historic. Day for ocean conservation.
Andrew Rosindell MP (Romford, Conservative)
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A very. Important piece of legislation, and I. Thank her for. under.
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under. The previous government. I hope there will. Be. A consensus. But there are many. Questions to
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But there are many. Questions to be answered, and we. Need to go into this. to. Make. Sure that there.
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Sure that there. Are not unintended consequences. And so. Madam Deputy Speaker. No one, nobody.
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No one, nobody. In this House doubts the oceans.
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oceans. They belong to us all. The high seas belong to. Every nation.
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Every nation. On this planet and the United Kingdom. As a.
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Proud seafaring nation and a. World leader in natural sciences with no. Less.
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Less. Than 16. Overseas territories spanning. For now, at least.
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spanning. For now, at least. All five of the world's. Major oceans. Has always. Led the. World in.
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Safeguarding them. The protection of. Our oceans is. One of the.
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One of the. Defining challenges of. Our age. Two thirds.
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Two thirds. Of the world's oceans. Lie beyond. The jurisdiction. Of any single. Nation.
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Nation. And those. Waters. Are home to a vast array. Of.
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Life that sustain the planet's ecosystems. Madam Deputy.
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Speaker, Britain depends on the seas. For our trade. It has been a moat.
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For our national. Security. And it has been our bridge to.
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And it has been our bridge to. The wider world. We therefore. Have not only. A. Moral duty. To protect them.
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To protect them. But also a strategic one. One of the core. Values of. The. Small sea.
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Small sea. Conservatism that I believe. In. As the name suggests, is to.
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As the name suggests, is to. Conserve things that truly matter. This is not only something that applies to.
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applies to. Our institutions and our way of life here in these islands, but also. The preservation of. Our.
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Our. Green and. Pleasant land, and in this case,
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that of the marine biodiversity, so. That we can hand on to. Our descendants. The natural.
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The natural. Beauty that I know we all. Cherish. And that principle. Is certainly. Not in.
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Not in. Question today by anyone in this. House. Of any party. And nowhere.
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And nowhere. Is that record. Clearer than in. The crown. Jewel of. Our leadership on. Blue.
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Blue. Belt programme. Through it, the United Kingdom and our overseas territories have.
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territories have. Created over four point. 4,000,000km² of. Marine.
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Marine. Protected areas from the South Atlantic. And the.
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Pacific to the Indian Ocean. These waters safeguard king penguins These waters safeguard king penguins on the Falkland Islands, the. Green turtles on Ascension Island and grey reef sharks.
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reef sharks. On the Pitcairn. Islands, and countless other
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species across the globe. I've had the privilege to visit both the. Falkland Islands. And. Ascension Islands.
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And to. See the amazing. Biodiversity that we are. Responsible for, and the oceans
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Responsible for, and the oceans around those. Territories are vital to protect. It is one. Of the largest networks of
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protected ocean. On Earth. And it exists. Because of. British leadership.
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British leadership. Alongside the governments. Of the British Overseas Territories.
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We granted those creatures and their habitats protection. From exploitation. By others.
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By others. Protection from industrial fishing fleets, from. Countries that would plunder our.
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Countries that would plunder our. thought. And that is something this. Nation should.
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Be immensely proud of. I will certainly. I listened carefully to what he's saying, and he's absolutely right in relation to the blue belt. But I wondered whether or not he therefore wondered whether or not he therefore regretted, in all the debates that we've had about the Chagos Islands, that the party opposite have not
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raised the. Importance of the conservation of the fish stocks and the biodiversity around those islands. Well.
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The chairman. Of the Foreign Affairs Committee, I'm. Afraid, is incorrect. We have raised these issues.
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On many occasions. I have personally raised them on countless occasions over the years. And before too long. The honourable.
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The Right honourable member will hear a bit more about. About the Chagos Islands. And the importance of protecting
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And the importance of protecting marine stocks and biodiversity in that part of the world. And so, Madam.
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Deputy Speaker, I fear that the government at this stage, despite
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government at this stage, despite what's been said today, is riding roughshod over that record. Undermining those.
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Undermining those. Very. Principles through their. Abject surrender. Of one of those.
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Of one of those. Marine protected areas. The British Indian. Ocean Territory may British Indian. Ocean Territory may look like a scattering of remote sea atolls in a far flung region. The atolls in a far flung region. The planet. But they are home to
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planet. But they are home to 640,000km² of ocean. One. Of the most pristine marine
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ecosystems on the earth, an area. Of. Ocean the size of France. And within it. Leave more.
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Than a. Thousand species. Of fish. Over 200. 200 species of coral in
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Over 200. 200 species of coral in which I've had. The opportunity. To see for. Myself in.
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Myself in. 2019, when I visited the Chagos of.
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of. Poros Banos, where I. Was. Greeted by. The wonderful chigozie and.
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The wonderful chigozie and. Coconut crabs. As I jumped out of the dinghy and walked onto the beach. And into the uninhabited
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island, we shamefully, shamefully. Refused to allow. The people.
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The people. To live there and forced them to leave their homes all. Those years leave their homes all. Those years ago. And so it is. Waters in its waters shelter seabirds.
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waters shelter seabirds. Turtles, dolphins. It is an environmental treasure. That the world.
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That the world. Envies, and that Britain. Has rightly protected over so many
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years. Of course. Can I can I thank the. Honourable gentleman for giving way? Is he aware that Mauritius is actually one
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aware that Mauritius is actually one of the early signatories. Of the UN. Global Oceans Treaty? And so therefore, I'm not sure what his
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therefore, I'm not sure what his point is. I think I. Think the. Honourable member should. Examine how Mauritius. Actually behave in reality.
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Actually behave in reality. And I'll come on to that a bit later. I think that it is very. Clear that.
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Clear that. If you. Want a. to. Take these issues seriously, it's the United Kingdom. It's easy to.
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the United Kingdom. It's easy to. Sign a treaty. It's not so. Easy to follow. That through. In practice.
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In practice. believe. In an act. Of historic. Folly. This government are to
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Folly. This government are to hand that amazing territory over to Mauritius. That nation does not have a record, the capability or the will to protect such a fragile environment. Its own waters have
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suffered from overfishing and poor. Enforcement. And its close alignment. With China. And. Indeed India.
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Indeed India. Should concern anyone who cares about the Indian Ocean's future. Indeed.
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Indeed. The evidence speaks for itself. In the 2024.
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Environmental Performance Index. Mauritius ranked 109th in Marine. Key Biodiversity.
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Key Biodiversity. Area protection, with a score of. Just.
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Just. 0.8 out of 183rd for the. Marine habitat. Protection and 131st.
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Protection and 131st. For marine protection. Stringency. Down nearly 78%.
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Down nearly 78%. Are these the credentials. Of. A nation ready to steward one.
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Of the world's most delicate ecosystems? The government. Appears to think so I disagree,
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yes, I'll certainly give away. I was just wondering whether he. Finds himself.
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Finds himself. In the wrong debate. Yes. Order. I am overseeing. The debate. If it was the wrong
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The debate. If it was the wrong debate, I would have pointed it out. Andrew Rosindell. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker.
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Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. Some of us do care about our British Overseas Territories and the marine environment. Some of us have argued
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for this for many, many. Years, as have many. On the. Other. Side of.
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The chamber. And I do think. That if we are to take this seriously. We need to take our. Responsibilities seriously.
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And otherwise. It is future generations, not just in this. Country. But across.
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But across. The world, who will look back at this debate. And. Think, actually in what we're on.
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Earth were they. Doing giving away. Such a vital part of the planet that we are responsible for? So if I may continue. So either the government truly believe Mauritius government truly believe Mauritius will we will reverse course and persuade. China to respect marine
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persuade. China to respect marine protected area or, as I'm afraid. The Chagos Surrender Treaty implies, we shall. End up.
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End up. Doing the heavy lifting while. Paying for the privilege. Forgive me for not being entirely
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Forgive me for not being entirely convinced, Madam Deputy Speaker, but I do not believe that these are the statistics of a nation. Ready to statistics of a nation. Ready to take on the responsibility of one of the world's most delicate. scientific.
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scientific. Assessments show. That live. Coral cover in. Mauritian waters have fallen. By.
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By. Up to 70%. In the late. 1990s, while coastal erosion and.
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Reef degradation. Nations.
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Nations. Review in. 2022 found that environmental. Laws on paper enforcement is inconsistent. Community involvement
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inconsistent. Community involvement is limited, and responses to. Emerging threats. Such as.
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Such as. inadequate. And, unbelievably, seabirds.
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And, unbelievably, seabirds. Seagrass beds, vital carbon storage, which is vital for carbon storage and marine biodiversity.
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storage and marine biodiversity. for. Tourism developments. So. Madam Deputy. Speaker. Is it really.
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Is it really. The environmental. Guardian that. Ministers entrust.
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With 640,000km² of some of the most pristine ocean on Earth? It beggars belief, and we need to look
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beggars belief, and we need to look around the world to see what happens when Chinese. Fishing interests move in. In Ecuador. Thousands of
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In Ecuador. Thousands of octopuses and sharks have been left dead on the shore. Because of illegal fishing by
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Because of illegal fishing by Chinese vessels. We need. To guard against. This in future. Off the coast of Ghana.
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Off the coast of Ghana. Fishermen's catches have fallen by 40% due to Chinese. Bottom trawlers decimating local.
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Bottom trawlers decimating local. Fish stocks. Around the Korean. Peninsula. Squid populations have collapsed. By.
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70%. And I hope. That this legislation. And this. Agreement will.
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Help to protect the oceans. Around the. World and. Countries where there are no protections. Taking place. At the moment.
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So if. The Chagos Islands. Are handed. Over, the same fleets will. Soon appear.
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Soon appear. In some of those waters. And Chagos will. Be at the mercy of exploitation.
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Be at the mercy of exploitation. This is the context in which the House considers. The Biodiversity Beyond National jurisdiction Bill. It runs.
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jurisdiction Bill. It runs. To 26. Sections, as the Minister has run.
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run. Through them all today. But no. Doubt in committee stage we will
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look at these in greater detail. There are, however, several points that must. Be added to the.
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Be added to the. Debate today on ratification. When will it happen? Section 25. Of the. Bill indeed provides.
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Bill indeed provides. For the. Commencement commencement. Of regulation, but without any. Statutory deadline.
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Statutory deadline. Or parliamentary. Trigger. Leaving ratification entirely. At the discretion of.
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the discretion of. The. Secretary of State. specifically.
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specifically. reaching. Powers to the. Secretary of. State to make. Regulations to.
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Amend. Existing Acts. Of Parliament by. Secondary
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Of Parliament by. Secondary legislation. Where, then is Parliament's role. In that? How will the House.
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In that? How will the House. Conference. Of Parties under. The agreement?
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The agreement? Will we be consulted. Before international. Rules are. Imposed on British.
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Imposed on British. Institutions and industries? Will British waters or those of
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Will British waters or those of our overseas. Territories ever fall under the jurisdiction of foreign or under the jurisdiction of foreign or a supranational supranational regulator? We surely cannot allow regulator? We surely cannot allow global bureaucracy to override British parliamentary sovereignty. And beyond that question of control And beyond that question of control lies the spectre of bureaucracy itself. Sections two and three impose heavy reporting duties on marine research and genetic marine research and genetic sampling. Section 16 allows still more procedures by regulation.
So has the department assessed what this will cost in time and money for this will cost in time and money for our scientists, shipping operators and legitimate researchers? How will small British enterprises compete if they face mountains of paperwork, while less scrupulous nations exploit the same waters freely? We all support high standards, but in the world we currently live in, we cannot afford to lose innovation or competitiveness. Then there is the matter of expense. The impact assessment admits that compliance licensing enforcement will not be cheap, yet provides little detail on who pays.
At a time of fiscal restraint with every department, when every department must justify every pound spent. Can the Minister explain whether this will truly be the best use of taxpayers money? How much would it cost to implement the change regime in full? Will the task of monitoring fall to the Royal Navy or the Marine Management Organisation, and what extra resources will they receive to do the job? What is the cost benefit ratio, and has the government assessed whether there could be indirect impacts on the taxpayer, and what are the impact on British industries, on fishermen, on offshore energy and biotechnology? And so can the minister assure us that British fishermen will not face restrictions that are energy sector, will not be burdened by impractical licensing, and demands that our
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biotech pioneers will not find their discoveries trapped in international bureaucracy. I thank the honourable gentleman
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I thank the honourable gentleman giving me, and I wonder if I could offer some helpful clarity for this offer some helpful clarity for this debate. So this debate is on and this debate is on beyond national jurisdiction, beyond giving a clue to the fact that it's not in British waters. So therefore, the points waters. So therefore, the points raised about how much impact the high seas will have on offshore wind high seas will have on offshore wind development might not be entirely valid.
And the points made about the impact on British fishermen fishing impact on British fishermen fishing in UK waters again might not be covered by the beyond national covered by the beyond national Jurisdiction International Ocean Treaty, so I wonder if it might be helpful that if, alongside the Bill,
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helpful that if, alongside the Bill, he reads the explanatory notes. Yeah. Well, I think the Minister will
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Well, I think the Minister will have plenty of time to explain all these questions in detail at committee stage. This is Second Reading, and this is where we Reading, and this is where we actually raise issues of concern. So I look forward to committee stage and I look forward to all my questions, if not today, being questions, if not today, being answered at that stage of the bill. But I do thank her for her intervention. So, Madam Deputy intervention. So, Madam Deputy Speaker, what safeguards will protect British intellectual property in marine genetic research? Will the benefit sharing provisions prevent our scientists from developing the fruits of their own work? And will other nations shoulder equal obligations, or will Britain be left carrying the cost because we are doing the right thing and others are not? Our research institutions are some of the most prestigious global leaders in the marine sector, whether that's the Natural History Museum, the National Oceanography Centre or our magnificent universities.
And so, first and foremost, there must be a guarantee from the government that this bill does not drown them in red tape. Section 20 rightly extends the bill's provision to the British overseas territories. They are, as I've said before, central to our environmental success story from the Pitcairn Islands, with their 35 residents to Tristan da Cunha, home to barely 240 residents, these far flung Britons have shown what small communities can achieve for global conservation when they have British support.
But how can they have confidence in the government's assurances when they witness what is happening in shakes? If ministers are willing to trade away one British territory without consultation or consent, what message does that send to the rest? Madam Deputy Speaker, I would remind the House that conservation, with the loss of sovereignty and without credible means of enforcement, is a hollow virtue. The United Kingdom has a record to be proud of. From Captain Cook to David Attenborough. And so we must build on that record and not undermine it with rushed ratification.
If ministers will answer the questions that I have laid out, if they will commit in statute to parliamentary oversight a full, costed implementation plan, explicit safeguards to British science and intellectual property, and legally enforceable protections for the British Overseas territories, then many on these benches will consider how to support measures that genuinely conserve our seas. If they will not, then I and others.
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Yes. Can I just can I just check your
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Can I just can I just check your Mr. Thank you. I was literally about to get there, Madam Deputy Speaker. So if there, Madam Deputy Speaker. So if they will not, I and others will oppose any step that weakens Britain's hand. I end, Madam Deputy Speaker, where I began our principles on this side of the House as conservatives is that we want to as conservatives is that we want to conserve and keep safe, to steward and defend what we are responsible and defend what we are responsible for.
We must be true to that principle. We must continue to act principle. We must continue to act as custodians of the seas in a way that respects our sovereignty, honours our obligations to our descendants, and protects the livelihoods and ecosystems. That depends on the United Kingdom.
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depends on the United Kingdom. Sarah Champion. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. Madam Deputy Speaker, I'm. Really proud to be. Standing here today because. It is.
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It is. An. Incredibly historic. Day for ocean conservation.
13:15
Sarah Champion MP (Rotherham, Labour)
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Sadly looks likely. The 99% of the Earth's coral reefs will die. Coral reefs are not.
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Coral reefs are not. Just a pretty thing. That we go diving on. They're incredibly complex and
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nurseries. But they also. Provide very significant protection for the islanders, both
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protection for the islanders, both sea. Level rises. Other threats. Illegal.
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Illegal. Unreported and unregulated fishing. It's decimating fish populations across the globe.
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populations across the globe. Deep sea. Mining threatens to cause damage from. Ecosystems, which will take
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Ecosystems, which will take decades to recover from. Currently, two thirds of the ocean lie outside of jurisdictions of national states,
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of jurisdictions of national states, and that's what this bill is focusing on. Yes, for the. Health of oceans and the planet
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Health of oceans and the planet as a whole, it is crucial that the international community develops ways of ensuring that these areas are not subject to lawless exploitation, as is currently
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exploitation, as is currently happening. And I will, of course, give way. I thank my hon. Friend for giving
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I thank my hon. Friend for giving way, and in January this year, as Chair of the International Development Committee, she wrote to the government to push the government to ratify the Global government to ratify the Global Oceans Treaty. So I thank her, as Chair of my committee for her efforts on this front. But if I recall correctly at the time, our committee's work highlighted that the UK had to work globally because there are 3 billion people who depend on the oceans for work, and especially it's the poorer, smaller developing nations that need to do that.
And so does she agree with me that this is a vital step forward for the future of, especially the small island developing states, but that the government must push others
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who have signed up to this treaty to ratify it. I thank my honourable friend and
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I thank my honourable friend and colleague. And yes, you're absolutely right. And that's why today is so historic. Because this is.
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Because this is. The UK taking that leadership role and hopefully corralling some of the other countries that are more reticent to do the right thing, to do the right thing. You mentioned do the right thing. You mentioned our committee, the International Development Committee, and also the all-party parliamentary group for the ocean, both of which I Chair, the ocean, both of which I Chair, have long been calling on both the previous government and this government to put in place the necessary legislation to ratify necessary legislation to ratify these agreements to have finally reached this point is a credit to reached this point is a credit to the ministers, particularly our water Minister, but also the Minister for the International Indo Minister for the International Indo Pacific and indeed the Minister of State for International Development.
In an era of international fragmentation, I'm relieved that 145 states have come together to forge states have come together to forge this agreement and to safeguard it for a global public good. Already, as my Honourable friend alluded to, as my Honourable friend alluded to, 75 countries have taken that next step of ratifying. And can I step of ratifying. And can I personally say that I'm very proud that Minister Hardie, in opposition, was championing this and actually has delivered to her word and in government is leading this ratification? Thank you.
As a seafaring nation and a centre of expertise in maritime law, the UK is perfectly placed to lead the charge to protect the world's oceans. Sadly, we are lagging behind many. The countries that did early on. Subscribe and ratify. Among them the Seychelles, Saint Lucia and Barbados. They ratified last year. It's not surprising that it's a small island. Developing states, SIDs, or large ocean states as they prefer to be called, were quick to ratify because they recognise the existential threat that ocean ecosystem degrades and the degradation, degradation.
Sorry, I can't say it poses to human societies and their economies. As the International Development Committee argued in a report last year, SIDs need reliable partners and the UK talks a good game when it comes to being responsible in global leadership. But activists and policy makers from SIDs told the committee that they were concerned about the consistency of Britain's commitment. And so I hope that this moment and this government, that's when we see the change and we actually stand up for those small island developing states, and particularly, as the honourable friend mentioned, overseas territories, the health of the world's ocean is not an issue confined to low income countries.
It's an existential issue for all of us. As the government's own income impact assessment acknowledged the impact of reduced fish stocks and decreased carbon sequestration capture will be borne by all of us, including future generations. The UK must seize this moment to match its international conservation ambition with tangible action to protect our domestic waters. Bottom trawl fishing, a highly destructive practice, is still permitted across almost all of UK seas, including in over 90% of our marine protected areas.
I welcome the government's consultation into this, and I hope they would take the necessary step to ban this practice wherever they can. The government must consider introducing additional legislation to ensure the UK's marine protected areas are actually protected because, sadly, even though it's got the title, many of them are not. This bill also offers plentiful opportunities for the UK's blue economy. As a world leader in marine science and marine technologies to support quick progress, the UK needs a definition of the use of marine genetic resources and digital sequence information by the time this agreement is ratified.
This is to support all those who will implement it. Madam Deputy Speaker, The UK's next steps are vital to ensure we fulfil our leadership role in ocean protection. The 120 day countdown has started the first conference of parties, Ocean Cop one is to be held within just 12 months. With the clock ticking, can the Minister set out a timetable for the passage of this bill through both houses? We need it to pass quickly to allow the UK to play its full part in the first conference.
Can the Minister also confirm whether this bill legally extends to the UK's existing domestic duties, to have regard to their precautionary and polluter pays principle to the high seas, and, if not, whether something to this effect should be, or could be inserted onto the face of the bill itself. I also wonder if the Minister will also consider producing an ocean strategy, as currently ocean issues fall between a number of different departments. Unfortunately meaning under the ownership of none. Madam Deputy Speaker, this bill is to be commended and must reach Royal Assent without fail, and I strongly
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urge all members to support it. I call the Liberal Democrats spokesperson Pippa Heylings. Thank you, Madam Deputy.
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you, Madam Deputy. Speaker, and it's a. Privilege to speak in support of the biodiversity. Beyond Natural.
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Jurisdiction Bill. It's a hugely. Important step, and one of the. Ones that.
Sarah Champion MP (Rotherham, Labour)
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Sadly looks likely. The 99% of the Earth's coral reefs will die. Coral reefs are not.
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Coral reefs are not. Just a pretty thing. That we go diving on. They're incredibly complex and
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nurseries. But they also. Provide very significant protection for the islanders, both
**** Possible New Speaker ****
protection for the islanders, both sea. Level rises. Other threats. Illegal.
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Illegal. Unreported and unregulated fishing. It's decimating fish populations across the globe.
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populations across the globe. Deep sea. Mining threatens to cause damage from. Ecosystems, which will take
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Ecosystems, which will take decades to recover from. Currently, two thirds of the ocean lie outside of jurisdictions of national states,
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of jurisdictions of national states, and that's what this bill is focusing on. Yes, for the. Health of oceans and the planet
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Health of oceans and the planet as a whole, it is crucial that the international community develops ways of ensuring that these areas are not subject to lawless exploitation, as is currently
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exploitation, as is currently happening. And I will, of course, give way. I thank my hon. Friend for giving
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I thank my hon. Friend for giving way, and in January this year, as Chair of the International Development Committee, she wrote to the government to push the government to ratify the Global government to ratify the Global Oceans Treaty. So I thank her, as Chair of my committee for her efforts on this front. But if I recall correctly at the time, our committee's work highlighted that the UK had to work globally because there are 3 billion people who depend on the oceans for work, and especially it's the poorer, smaller developing nations that need to do that.
And so does she agree with me that this is a vital step forward for the future of, especially the small island developing states, but that the government must push others
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who have signed up to this treaty to ratify it. I thank my honourable friend and
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I thank my honourable friend and colleague. And yes, you're absolutely right. And that's why today is so historic. Because this is.
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Because this is. The UK taking that leadership role and hopefully corralling some of the other countries that are more reticent to do the right thing, to do the right thing. You mentioned do the right thing. You mentioned our committee, the International Development Committee, and also the all-party parliamentary group for the ocean, both of which I Chair, the ocean, both of which I Chair, have long been calling on both the previous government and this government to put in place the necessary legislation to ratify necessary legislation to ratify these agreements to have finally reached this point is a credit to reached this point is a credit to the ministers, particularly our water Minister, but also the Minister for the International Indo Minister for the International Indo Pacific and indeed the Minister of State for International Development.
In an era of international fragmentation, I'm relieved that 145 states have come together to forge states have come together to forge this agreement and to safeguard it for a global public good. Already, as my Honourable friend alluded to, as my Honourable friend alluded to, 75 countries have taken that next step of ratifying. And can I step of ratifying. And can I personally say that I'm very proud that Minister Hardie, in opposition, was championing this and actually has delivered to her word and in government is leading this ratification? Thank you.
As a seafaring nation and a centre of expertise in maritime law, the UK is perfectly placed to lead the charge to protect the world's oceans. Sadly, we are lagging behind many. The countries that did early on. Subscribe and ratify. Among them the Seychelles, Saint Lucia and Barbados. They ratified last year. It's not surprising that it's a small island. Developing states, SIDs, or large ocean states as they prefer to be called, were quick to ratify because they recognise the existential threat that ocean ecosystem degrades and the degradation, degradation.
Sorry, I can't say it poses to human societies and their economies. As the International Development Committee argued in a report last year, SIDs need reliable partners and the UK talks a good game when it comes to being responsible in global leadership. But activists and policy makers from SIDs told the committee that they were concerned about the consistency of Britain's commitment. And so I hope that this moment and this government, that's when we see the change and we actually stand up for those small island developing states, and particularly, as the honourable friend mentioned, overseas territories, the health of the world's ocean is not an issue confined to low income countries.
It's an existential issue for all of us. As the government's own income impact assessment acknowledged the impact of reduced fish stocks and decreased carbon sequestration capture will be borne by all of us, including future generations. The UK must seize this moment to match its international conservation ambition with tangible action to protect our domestic waters. Bottom trawl fishing, a highly destructive practice, is still permitted across almost all of UK seas, including in over 90% of our marine protected areas.
I welcome the government's consultation into this, and I hope they would take the necessary step to ban this practice wherever they can. The government must consider introducing additional legislation to ensure the UK's marine protected areas are actually protected because, sadly, even though it's got the title, many of them are not. This bill also offers plentiful opportunities for the UK's blue economy. As a world leader in marine science and marine technologies to support quick progress, the UK needs a definition of the use of marine genetic resources and digital sequence information by the time this agreement is ratified.
This is to support all those who will implement it. Madam Deputy Speaker, The UK's next steps are vital to ensure we fulfil our leadership role in ocean protection. The 120 day countdown has started the first conference of parties, Ocean Cop one is to be held within just 12 months. With the clock ticking, can the Minister set out a timetable for the passage of this bill through both houses? We need it to pass quickly to allow the UK to play its full part in the first conference.
Can the Minister also confirm whether this bill legally extends to the UK's existing domestic duties, to have regard to their precautionary and polluter pays principle to the high seas, and, if not, whether something to this effect should be, or could be inserted onto the face of the bill itself. I also wonder if the Minister will also consider producing an ocean strategy, as currently ocean issues fall between a number of different departments. Unfortunately meaning under the ownership of none. Madam Deputy Speaker, this bill is to be commended and must reach Royal Assent without fail, and I strongly
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urge all members to support it. I call the Liberal Democrats spokesperson Pippa Heylings. Thank you, Madam Deputy.
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you, Madam Deputy. Speaker, and it's a. Privilege to speak in support of the biodiversity. Beyond Natural.
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Jurisdiction Bill. It's a hugely. Important step, and one of the. Ones that.
13:23
Pippa Heylings MP (South Cambridgeshire, Liberal Democrat)
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Ones that. The Minister has laid out that will finally allow the United Kingdom to ratify the High Seas.
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Kingdom to ratify the High Seas. Treaty and play its full part in protecting. Our shared global. Ocean.
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Ocean. And one in which I really do. Hope that. Members across the chamber will
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Members across the chamber will support us at its time. And I'd like to also. Share in the congratulations to the Minister.
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For keeping. Her word that she had said when she was Shadow Minister on the on the benches.
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the benches. That's really, really good to see. And this bill comes at a crucial time after more than a
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decade of negotiation. This treaty is one of the greatest biodiversity conservation victories in. History, and it's.
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History, and it's. A landmark moment for global ocean. Governance.
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For the first time, setting out a clear legal framework for establishing. Ocean sanctuaries. And area.
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area. Based management. Tools on the high seas, two
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thirds of which lie beyond national borders and therefore lawless. Currently.
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Currently. We refer to our rainforests. As our planet's. Lungs, but our oceans are also just as important for biodiversity
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just as important for biodiversity regulating our. Climate, absorbing. Almost a third of human made carbon dioxide and sustaining
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carbon dioxide and sustaining billions of people around the world. And as we. Have heard, they are also under extraordinary pressure from overfishing, plastic pollution and the growing threat of deep sea mining. The treaty.
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mining. The treaty. Is currently the. Only viable pathway. To meeting the global 30 by.
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30 biodiversity goal of. Protecting at least. 30% of the world's ocean before
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2030. Currently. Less than 1%. Of the high seas.
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Of the high seas. running. Out to meet this. Goal by the end of the decade. So I welcome this bill, which provides that legal framework for the UK to deliver on the high Seas Treaty's
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deliver on the high Seas Treaty's three central pillars. First. The sharing and fair sharing of benefits for marine
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sharing of benefits for marine genetic resources. The DNA and data. Of ocean life. Second. The creation. Of marine protected areas and
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Of marine protected areas and area based management tools in the high seas. And third, the. Stronger environmental impact assessments to prevent harmful activities before they happen.
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And it. Has to be fair, Madam Speaker. For developing nations. To capacity. Building and
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To capacity. Building and technology. Transfer is central to this. It's personal to me as well. Before entering. Parliament
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Before entering. Parliament professionally, I spent. Over a decade working on the creation. Of marine protected.
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Areas in East Africa and South America. I helped create the first ever multiple use for marine reserve together with fishermen and. together with fishermen and. Government in Zanzibar on the island. I then spent several years.
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Mediating conflict and reaching consensus. Between fishermen. Tour operators, the Galapagos. National Park and the. Government
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National Park and the. Government to help create the Galapagos Island Marine Reserve. At that time one of the.
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At that time one of the. Largest MPAs created. Since then. I was involved in international work towards international marine
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towards international marine governance beyond national jurisdiction. The High Seas Treaty, as well as with the UK's. Blue Belt.
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Blue Belt. Programme, and I worked with all of those communities. And our officials. On all of those overseas
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On all of those overseas territories. So I've seen. At first hand what's at stake. Working with. Fishermen to prevent the destruction of coral reefs by dynamite fishing firsthand to now, the terrifying news that we've
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the terrifying news that we've reached the first climate. Tipping point. With our precious and beautiful warm water coral reefs now.
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In irreversible. livelihoods.
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livelihoods. Of hundreds of millions of people. negotiations. With the. Fishing sector on deep water
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Fishing sector on deep water fishing to find sustainable fishing. Quotas, standards. For. Tuna fishing whilst. Protecting the vital marine
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corridors. For our endangered marine. Mammals and birds. I've dived
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along those tagging whale sharks to understand the routes they take across the high seas. Beyond national jurisdictions,
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Beyond national jurisdictions, which are often the Wild. West, where we are facing the tragedy of the Commons, where there tragedy of the Commons, where there are no agreed rules or governance to as.
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as. Much as possible before someone else does. And that. Is why it's so important.
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Is why it's so important. To highlight that the Global Oceans Treaty could provide. A legal mechanism. Also to address the Blue.
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Also to address the Blue. Hole in the South Atlantic. A region. Requiring agreements about.
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Requiring agreements about. What is sustainable fishing practice and ways to effectively deter terribly. Unsustainable
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deter terribly. Unsustainable activity at the moment. And that's why the Liberal Democrats. Are calling. For a coherent. Ocean policy.
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For a coherent. Ocean policy. strategy. One that. Links the global commitments we make through this bill to.
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Stronger domestic action on. fishing. And. Pollution at home. Madam Deputy Speaker.
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Deputy Speaker. The UK was. Instrumental in securing an ambitious treaty text at the UN and. We should. Take pride in that.
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Take pride in that. But we have to be honest too. As other members have said, the UK was not among. The.
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The. First. 60 nations to ratify. That matters where. Britain leads, others. Follow and the commitments.
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the commitments. Being made today need to be matched with commitments to sustainable fisheries. Management and marine. Conservation.
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Conservation. Here, back. In. Our own waters. Our credibility. And moral authority on the world
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stage is under threat. When government ministers. Are also seeming to say that we may. Not implement the outright ban
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may. Not implement the outright ban earlier. This year to. Extend that ban on bottom towed
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Extend that ban on bottom towed fishing gear to offshore protected areas. I was a. Member of the inquiry.
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Into marine governance. Which. Recommended the ban. On bottom trawling ahead of the UN Ocean.
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Conference. And we. Commended the government on its announcement at. That time. I fully support the
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That time. I fully support the Chair of the committee's. Response. Repeating the committee's call. To completely ban. Bottom trawling within.
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trawling within. Offshore MPAs. And pleading with the. Minister and the government that.
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They will take the right. Decision on. The back of the consultation that's happening now and.
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Not undermine the integrity. Of our. Protected waters. Madam Deputy Speaker, in conclusion, the Liberal Democrats conclusion, the Liberal Democrats are clear we support this bill and we urge the government to bring forward ratification swiftly, which forward ratification swiftly, which I hope members of all parties across the chamber will support, so that the chamber will support, so that the UK has a seat at the table when the first Ocean Cop takes place and the first Ocean Cop takes place and going forwards.
Thank you. Kerry McCarthy. Thank you, Madam Deputy
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McCarthy. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. Like others, I very much welcome this bill. I hope it swiftly passes. Into law so that we can.
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law so that we can. Cop. Next year. It does seem that in recent years, if you look back.
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A bit further beyond. That, you had people like John co-chair. Of the Global Oceans Commission,
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Of the Global Oceans Commission, really spearheading efforts on this front. And then it. Felt like. It really dropped off the agenda.
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It really dropped off the agenda. So I think next year is going to be really important for making sure that it becomes. A. Priority again.
Pippa Heylings MP (South Cambridgeshire, Liberal Democrat)
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Ones that. The Minister has laid out that will finally allow the United Kingdom to ratify the High Seas.
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Kingdom to ratify the High Seas. Treaty and play its full part in protecting. Our shared global. Ocean.
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Ocean. And one in which I really do. Hope that. Members across the chamber will
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Members across the chamber will support us at its time. And I'd like to also. Share in the congratulations to the Minister.
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For keeping. Her word that she had said when she was Shadow Minister on the on the benches.
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the benches. That's really, really good to see. And this bill comes at a crucial time after more than a
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decade of negotiation. This treaty is one of the greatest biodiversity conservation victories in. History, and it's.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
History, and it's. A landmark moment for global ocean. Governance.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
For the first time, setting out a clear legal framework for establishing. Ocean sanctuaries. And area.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
area. Based management. Tools on the high seas, two
**** Possible New Speaker ****
thirds of which lie beyond national borders and therefore lawless. Currently.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Currently. We refer to our rainforests. As our planet's. Lungs, but our oceans are also just as important for biodiversity
**** Possible New Speaker ****
just as important for biodiversity regulating our. Climate, absorbing. Almost a third of human made carbon dioxide and sustaining
**** Possible New Speaker ****
carbon dioxide and sustaining billions of people around the world. And as we. Have heard, they are also under extraordinary pressure from overfishing, plastic pollution and the growing threat of deep sea mining. The treaty.
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mining. The treaty. Is currently the. Only viable pathway. To meeting the global 30 by.
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30 biodiversity goal of. Protecting at least. 30% of the world's ocean before
**** Possible New Speaker ****
2030. Currently. Less than 1%. Of the high seas.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Of the high seas. running. Out to meet this. Goal by the end of the decade. So I welcome this bill, which provides that legal framework for the UK to deliver on the high Seas Treaty's
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deliver on the high Seas Treaty's three central pillars. First. The sharing and fair sharing of benefits for marine
**** Possible New Speaker ****
sharing of benefits for marine genetic resources. The DNA and data. Of ocean life. Second. The creation. Of marine protected areas and
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Of marine protected areas and area based management tools in the high seas. And third, the. Stronger environmental impact assessments to prevent harmful activities before they happen.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
And it. Has to be fair, Madam Speaker. For developing nations. To capacity. Building and
**** Possible New Speaker ****
To capacity. Building and technology. Transfer is central to this. It's personal to me as well. Before entering. Parliament
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Before entering. Parliament professionally, I spent. Over a decade working on the creation. Of marine protected.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Areas in East Africa and South America. I helped create the first ever multiple use for marine reserve together with fishermen and. together with fishermen and. Government in Zanzibar on the island. I then spent several years.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Mediating conflict and reaching consensus. Between fishermen. Tour operators, the Galapagos. National Park and the. Government
**** Possible New Speaker ****
National Park and the. Government to help create the Galapagos Island Marine Reserve. At that time one of the.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
At that time one of the. Largest MPAs created. Since then. I was involved in international work towards international marine
**** Possible New Speaker ****
towards international marine governance beyond national jurisdiction. The High Seas Treaty, as well as with the UK's. Blue Belt.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Blue Belt. Programme, and I worked with all of those communities. And our officials. On all of those overseas
**** Possible New Speaker ****
On all of those overseas territories. So I've seen. At first hand what's at stake. Working with. Fishermen to prevent the destruction of coral reefs by dynamite fishing firsthand to now, the terrifying news that we've
**** Possible New Speaker ****
the terrifying news that we've reached the first climate. Tipping point. With our precious and beautiful warm water coral reefs now.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
In irreversible. livelihoods.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
livelihoods. Of hundreds of millions of people. negotiations. With the. Fishing sector on deep water
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Fishing sector on deep water fishing to find sustainable fishing. Quotas, standards. For. Tuna fishing whilst. Protecting the vital marine
**** Possible New Speaker ****
corridors. For our endangered marine. Mammals and birds. I've dived
**** Possible New Speaker ****
along those tagging whale sharks to understand the routes they take across the high seas. Beyond national jurisdictions,
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Beyond national jurisdictions, which are often the Wild. West, where we are facing the tragedy of the Commons, where there tragedy of the Commons, where there are no agreed rules or governance to as.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
as. Much as possible before someone else does. And that. Is why it's so important.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Is why it's so important. To highlight that the Global Oceans Treaty could provide. A legal mechanism. Also to address the Blue.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Also to address the Blue. Hole in the South Atlantic. A region. Requiring agreements about.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Requiring agreements about. What is sustainable fishing practice and ways to effectively deter terribly. Unsustainable
**** Possible New Speaker ****
deter terribly. Unsustainable activity at the moment. And that's why the Liberal Democrats. Are calling. For a coherent. Ocean policy.
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For a coherent. Ocean policy. strategy. One that. Links the global commitments we make through this bill to.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Stronger domestic action on. fishing. And. Pollution at home. Madam Deputy Speaker.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Deputy Speaker. The UK was. Instrumental in securing an ambitious treaty text at the UN and. We should. Take pride in that.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Take pride in that. But we have to be honest too. As other members have said, the UK was not among. The.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
The. First. 60 nations to ratify. That matters where. Britain leads, others. Follow and the commitments.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
the commitments. Being made today need to be matched with commitments to sustainable fisheries. Management and marine. Conservation.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Conservation. Here, back. In. Our own waters. Our credibility. And moral authority on the world
**** Possible New Speaker ****
stage is under threat. When government ministers. Are also seeming to say that we may. Not implement the outright ban
**** Possible New Speaker ****
may. Not implement the outright ban earlier. This year to. Extend that ban on bottom towed
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Extend that ban on bottom towed fishing gear to offshore protected areas. I was a. Member of the inquiry.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Into marine governance. Which. Recommended the ban. On bottom trawling ahead of the UN Ocean.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Conference. And we. Commended the government on its announcement at. That time. I fully support the
**** Possible New Speaker ****
That time. I fully support the Chair of the committee's. Response. Repeating the committee's call. To completely ban. Bottom trawling within.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
trawling within. Offshore MPAs. And pleading with the. Minister and the government that.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
They will take the right. Decision on. The back of the consultation that's happening now and.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Not undermine the integrity. Of our. Protected waters. Madam Deputy Speaker, in conclusion, the Liberal Democrats conclusion, the Liberal Democrats are clear we support this bill and we urge the government to bring forward ratification swiftly, which forward ratification swiftly, which I hope members of all parties across the chamber will support, so that the chamber will support, so that the UK has a seat at the table when the first Ocean Cop takes place and the first Ocean Cop takes place and going forwards.
Thank you. Kerry McCarthy. Thank you, Madam Deputy
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McCarthy. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. Like others, I very much welcome this bill. I hope it swiftly passes. Into law so that we can.
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law so that we can. Cop. Next year. It does seem that in recent years, if you look back.
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A bit further beyond. That, you had people like John co-chair. Of the Global Oceans Commission,
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Of the Global Oceans Commission, really spearheading efforts on this front. And then it. Felt like. It really dropped off the agenda.
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It really dropped off the agenda. So I think next year is going to be really important for making sure that it becomes. A. Priority again.
13:30
Kerry McCarthy MP (Bristol East, Labour)
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Priority again. I want to start by saying why. The oceans. Matter. Why they're under threat, and why protecting them is so important. As
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protecting them is so important. As we've heard, oceans are a massive. Carbon sink. They absorb. Over 90% of. Excess heat trapped by. Greenhouse gases.
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And around 25 to 30%. Of global CO2 emissions. And they host around.
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80% of all life forms. Much of which are still waiting. To be discovered. And they are under threat from plastic.
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under threat from plastic. Pollution, ocean. Acidification, the bleaching of coral reefs. And from overfishing on an
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And from overfishing on an industrial, totally unsustainable scale. The very largest factory trawlers
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The very largest factory trawlers have net mouths of up to 100, so 1200. Metres wide and 200 to. 300m deep. Sweeping up.
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Sweeping up. tonnes. Of fish and. Sea. Food in one trip.
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Food in one trip. Much of which is bycatch, which is then discarded. So it's not for human consumption.
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consumption. deforestation. Akin to clear. Fell in an entire rainforest. When you're only looking to harvest
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When you're only looking to harvest Environmental. Justice Foundation has done. Some brilliant reports in.
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brilliant reports in. exploitation. As part of this industrial. Scale.
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Fishing, particularly in the Thai. Seafood sector. The further. Afield those ships. Now go.
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Now go. In search of. Because the fish stocks. Into territorial waters are depleted further afield they go the depleted further afield they go the higher the risk there is to workers that are kept at sea for years at a time. According to the FAO, between 35 to 37% of assessed fish stocks are being fished beyond biologically
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sustainable levels. And it's much higher. In the high seas and struggling fish stocks, with two thirds fish stocks, with two thirds classified as over exploited or depleted. This includes iconic species like sharks that are a crucial part of the ocean ecosystem. It's estimated there's been a 71% It's estimated there's been a 71% decline in shop in the ocean population of sharks and rays since population of sharks and rays since 1970. 77% of oceanic shark and ray species are now threatened with extinction.
Roughly 100 million sharks a year are killed by humans through targeted fishing, shark through targeted fishing, shark finning and bycatch. Many of us would have seen the Blue Panic series, which did such a brilliant job at highlighting, amongst other things, the threat of plastic pollution and spurring calls to action. And I want to give a shout action. And I want to give a shout out here to the BBC's Bristol's Natural History Unit, which has been Natural History Unit, which has been hugely influential, as well as giving great enjoyment to all the people that have seen its programmes.
It's a great shame that programmes. It's a great shame that agreement still hasn't been reached on a global plastics treaty, and we must keep up the efforts on that must keep up the efforts on that front. I hope that Sir David Attenborough's latest production, ocean, will have a similar impact ocean, will have a similar impact when it comes to bottom trawling. As Sir David says, what we have done to the deep ocean floor is just unspeakably awful. The trawlers tear the seabed with such force that their trails of destruction can be seen from space.
It was actually reported that some of the material they filmed for that programme was deemed too shocking to be shown. Due to climate change, more than half of the world straddling fish stocks will shift across maritime borders between economic exclusion zones and the high seas by 2050, and in the high seas, fisheries management is much more challenging and stocks are much more likely to be overexploited. As I said earlier, that makes the need for marine protected areas in the high seas even more important.
And as we've heard, as well as being an island nation ourselves, of course the UK is because of our overseas territories, the custodian of a fifth of the world's territorial waters. So that means we're the next best thing to a custodian as being the neighbour of much of the high seas. That includes the Sargasso Sea. And Greenpeace is calling on the UK to take a lead in working with our overseas territory, Bermuda, on developing an ocean sanctuary proposal for the Sargasso Sea, ready to present at the first Ocean Cop next year.
The SHC is a uniquely biodiverse, important ecosystem. The floating sargassum mats are known as the goat. So as the global sorry, that's the global golden floating rainforest and a haven for juvenile fish and turtles, a spawning ground for a rich range of species, and an important migratory pathway for humpback whales as a generator of massive carbon sequestration and oxygen production, it's vitally important to tackling climate change and planetary health, but it's at risk of overfishing, pollution and shipping traffic. There's much support in Bermuda for this proposal, and I hope that we will be able to take that forward next year.
The UK is also uniquely well placed, given our strength as a global financial centre, to play a role in developing innovative financial instruments that will help finance marine protection. Building on what countries like Seychelles and Belize have done with their blue bonds and their debt restructuring that Cop 29. Last year we launched our six principles behind integrity, carbon and Nature Markets, and it's been out for consultation this year in the world, when public sector resources and donations are dwindling, the world is looking to make progress on leveraging in private sector finance in a meaningful, meaning, sustainable way, meaningful, sustainable way.
This could be of huge benefit to climate, vulnerable coastal countries and small island states, but also a political to funding marine protected areas in high seas, making it economically available to protect our seas rather than to plunder them. I am here in the press. Our Treasury is less enthused on the nature side of these voluntary markets than the carbon side, and I hope that's not the case, and I will certainly keep up the pressure on them to take this forward. I also want to speak briefly, Madam Deputy Speaker, about deep sea mining, to which I am totally opposed.
Deep sea mining could cause irreversible damage to ecosystems and loss of undiscovered biodiversity. I understand the current UK position as confirmed by an Fcdo ministerial answer last month, is that we backed the suspension of deep sea mining and support a moratorium on the granting of deep sea mining contracts by the International Seabed Authority. We will not, the minister said, grant licences for exploitation unless there is sufficient scientific evidence about the potential potential impact on deep sea ecosystems and strong, enforceable environmental regulations.
Standards and guidelines are in place. What is not clear, though, and I hope the Minister will be able to clarify this. And I winding up what powers that we will have through this international collaboration to stop other countries issuing such licences. I'm a little concerned that the measures in this bill about marine genetic resources will open the door to deep sea mining. I accept there's a case for exploring the potential of such resources if carried out under strong safeguards, but we I would resist any attempts to allow deep sea mining to occur.
My final point is that while I welcome the international initiatives, as has been made very clear, we're talking today about beyond national jurisdictions, we do need to lead by example with stronger protection for our own territorial waters. As has been said, there's been some progress, most notably around our overseas territories. I think it's always easier to act when it's thousands of miles away, perhaps with not the same economic interest. So there's been great work around Ascension, Pitcairn, South Georgia, but around the UK coast it's more of a mixed picture.
Dogger Bank in the North Sea is one of the largest marine protected areas since it was established in 2022. It's benefited from a 98% reduction in bottom trawling, supporting the recovery of marine species like halibut, cod, angel shark meals, as it says in the UK National Biodiversity Strategy and Action Plan, all marine protected areas must be well managed in force and effect effective, not paper parks, and we could start by leaving faster to end all bottom trawling in our marine protected areas.
In. There was a recent excellent report called Blue Carbon that was organised by the WWF, Wildlife Trust and RSPB. It carried out they carried out a blue carbon mapping project with the help of the Scottish Association for Marine Science. We're the first country to map this. We know about the importance of kelp forest, seagrass meadows and mangroves, but it's the less glamorous side. The actual sediment on our seabeds that is the true hero when it comes to carbon sequestration. The report found that 224 million tonnes of organic carbon was stored in just the top ten centimetres of seabed, sediments and vegetated habitats, but 98% of that was actually the sediment.
I mean, you know, in the mud and things. It frustrated me, said we might role as minister for climate, that we talked so much about the role of trees and forests in terms of carbon sequestration. We didn't talk about the oceans at all, I was told, because it was difficult to quantify, that this project is a great example. If this is the carbon work that is being done by our seabed around the UK coast, just think of what the seabeds in our high seas are doing.
So we must have action on that as Cop. And again, I hope this bill comes into law very
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soon. I look forward to next year's discussions. Wera Hobhouse you, Madam. Deputy Speaker.
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Deputy Speaker. Less than 1%. Of the high. Seas are. Fully protected. There could not
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Fully protected. There could not be a more important time for this treaty. It is the world's only treaty. It is the world's only viable pathway to meet the global biodiversity goal of protecting at least 30% of the world's.
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least 30% of the world's. Ocean before 2030. I welcome, along with my Liberal Democrat colleagues, the government.
Kerry McCarthy MP (Bristol East, Labour)
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Priority again. I want to start by saying why. The oceans. Matter. Why they're under threat, and why protecting them is so important. As
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protecting them is so important. As we've heard, oceans are a massive. Carbon sink. They absorb. Over 90% of. Excess heat trapped by. Greenhouse gases.
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And around 25 to 30%. Of global CO2 emissions. And they host around.
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80% of all life forms. Much of which are still waiting. To be discovered. And they are under threat from plastic.
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under threat from plastic. Pollution, ocean. Acidification, the bleaching of coral reefs. And from overfishing on an
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And from overfishing on an industrial, totally unsustainable scale. The very largest factory trawlers
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The very largest factory trawlers have net mouths of up to 100, so 1200. Metres wide and 200 to. 300m deep. Sweeping up.
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Sweeping up. tonnes. Of fish and. Sea. Food in one trip.
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Food in one trip. Much of which is bycatch, which is then discarded. So it's not for human consumption.
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consumption. deforestation. Akin to clear. Fell in an entire rainforest. When you're only looking to harvest
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When you're only looking to harvest Environmental. Justice Foundation has done. Some brilliant reports in.
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brilliant reports in. exploitation. As part of this industrial. Scale.
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Fishing, particularly in the Thai. Seafood sector. The further. Afield those ships. Now go.
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Now go. In search of. Because the fish stocks. Into territorial waters are depleted further afield they go the depleted further afield they go the higher the risk there is to workers that are kept at sea for years at a time. According to the FAO, between 35 to 37% of assessed fish stocks are being fished beyond biologically
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sustainable levels. And it's much higher. In the high seas and struggling fish stocks, with two thirds fish stocks, with two thirds classified as over exploited or depleted. This includes iconic species like sharks that are a crucial part of the ocean ecosystem. It's estimated there's been a 71% It's estimated there's been a 71% decline in shop in the ocean population of sharks and rays since population of sharks and rays since 1970. 77% of oceanic shark and ray species are now threatened with extinction.
Roughly 100 million sharks a year are killed by humans through targeted fishing, shark through targeted fishing, shark finning and bycatch. Many of us would have seen the Blue Panic series, which did such a brilliant job at highlighting, amongst other things, the threat of plastic pollution and spurring calls to action. And I want to give a shout action. And I want to give a shout out here to the BBC's Bristol's Natural History Unit, which has been Natural History Unit, which has been hugely influential, as well as giving great enjoyment to all the people that have seen its programmes.
It's a great shame that programmes. It's a great shame that agreement still hasn't been reached on a global plastics treaty, and we must keep up the efforts on that must keep up the efforts on that front. I hope that Sir David Attenborough's latest production, ocean, will have a similar impact ocean, will have a similar impact when it comes to bottom trawling. As Sir David says, what we have done to the deep ocean floor is just unspeakably awful. The trawlers tear the seabed with such force that their trails of destruction can be seen from space.
It was actually reported that some of the material they filmed for that programme was deemed too shocking to be shown. Due to climate change, more than half of the world straddling fish stocks will shift across maritime borders between economic exclusion zones and the high seas by 2050, and in the high seas, fisheries management is much more challenging and stocks are much more likely to be overexploited. As I said earlier, that makes the need for marine protected areas in the high seas even more important.
And as we've heard, as well as being an island nation ourselves, of course the UK is because of our overseas territories, the custodian of a fifth of the world's territorial waters. So that means we're the next best thing to a custodian as being the neighbour of much of the high seas. That includes the Sargasso Sea. And Greenpeace is calling on the UK to take a lead in working with our overseas territory, Bermuda, on developing an ocean sanctuary proposal for the Sargasso Sea, ready to present at the first Ocean Cop next year.
The SHC is a uniquely biodiverse, important ecosystem. The floating sargassum mats are known as the goat. So as the global sorry, that's the global golden floating rainforest and a haven for juvenile fish and turtles, a spawning ground for a rich range of species, and an important migratory pathway for humpback whales as a generator of massive carbon sequestration and oxygen production, it's vitally important to tackling climate change and planetary health, but it's at risk of overfishing, pollution and shipping traffic. There's much support in Bermuda for this proposal, and I hope that we will be able to take that forward next year.
The UK is also uniquely well placed, given our strength as a global financial centre, to play a role in developing innovative financial instruments that will help finance marine protection. Building on what countries like Seychelles and Belize have done with their blue bonds and their debt restructuring that Cop 29. Last year we launched our six principles behind integrity, carbon and Nature Markets, and it's been out for consultation this year in the world, when public sector resources and donations are dwindling, the world is looking to make progress on leveraging in private sector finance in a meaningful, meaning, sustainable way, meaningful, sustainable way.
This could be of huge benefit to climate, vulnerable coastal countries and small island states, but also a political to funding marine protected areas in high seas, making it economically available to protect our seas rather than to plunder them. I am here in the press. Our Treasury is less enthused on the nature side of these voluntary markets than the carbon side, and I hope that's not the case, and I will certainly keep up the pressure on them to take this forward. I also want to speak briefly, Madam Deputy Speaker, about deep sea mining, to which I am totally opposed.
Deep sea mining could cause irreversible damage to ecosystems and loss of undiscovered biodiversity. I understand the current UK position as confirmed by an Fcdo ministerial answer last month, is that we backed the suspension of deep sea mining and support a moratorium on the granting of deep sea mining contracts by the International Seabed Authority. We will not, the minister said, grant licences for exploitation unless there is sufficient scientific evidence about the potential potential impact on deep sea ecosystems and strong, enforceable environmental regulations.
Standards and guidelines are in place. What is not clear, though, and I hope the Minister will be able to clarify this. And I winding up what powers that we will have through this international collaboration to stop other countries issuing such licences. I'm a little concerned that the measures in this bill about marine genetic resources will open the door to deep sea mining. I accept there's a case for exploring the potential of such resources if carried out under strong safeguards, but we I would resist any attempts to allow deep sea mining to occur.
My final point is that while I welcome the international initiatives, as has been made very clear, we're talking today about beyond national jurisdictions, we do need to lead by example with stronger protection for our own territorial waters. As has been said, there's been some progress, most notably around our overseas territories. I think it's always easier to act when it's thousands of miles away, perhaps with not the same economic interest. So there's been great work around Ascension, Pitcairn, South Georgia, but around the UK coast it's more of a mixed picture.
Dogger Bank in the North Sea is one of the largest marine protected areas since it was established in 2022. It's benefited from a 98% reduction in bottom trawling, supporting the recovery of marine species like halibut, cod, angel shark meals, as it says in the UK National Biodiversity Strategy and Action Plan, all marine protected areas must be well managed in force and effect effective, not paper parks, and we could start by leaving faster to end all bottom trawling in our marine protected areas.
In. There was a recent excellent report called Blue Carbon that was organised by the WWF, Wildlife Trust and RSPB. It carried out they carried out a blue carbon mapping project with the help of the Scottish Association for Marine Science. We're the first country to map this. We know about the importance of kelp forest, seagrass meadows and mangroves, but it's the less glamorous side. The actual sediment on our seabeds that is the true hero when it comes to carbon sequestration. The report found that 224 million tonnes of organic carbon was stored in just the top ten centimetres of seabed, sediments and vegetated habitats, but 98% of that was actually the sediment.
I mean, you know, in the mud and things. It frustrated me, said we might role as minister for climate, that we talked so much about the role of trees and forests in terms of carbon sequestration. We didn't talk about the oceans at all, I was told, because it was difficult to quantify, that this project is a great example. If this is the carbon work that is being done by our seabed around the UK coast, just think of what the seabeds in our high seas are doing.
So we must have action on that as Cop. And again, I hope this bill comes into law very
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soon. I look forward to next year's discussions. Wera Hobhouse you, Madam. Deputy Speaker.
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Deputy Speaker. Less than 1%. Of the high. Seas are. Fully protected. There could not
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Fully protected. There could not be a more important time for this treaty. It is the world's only treaty. It is the world's only viable pathway to meet the global biodiversity goal of protecting at least 30% of the world's.
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least 30% of the world's. Ocean before 2030. I welcome, along with my Liberal Democrat colleagues, the government.
13:39
Wera Hobhouse MP (Bath, Liberal Democrat)
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-
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Democrat colleagues, the government. To finally bring. Forward this legislation. It is disappointing that the UK was not among the first 60.
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among the first 60. Countries. Who reached the threshold to get this treaty ratified, especially this treaty ratified, especially given the long cross-party support in this House. But I hope.
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allow. The UK a seat. At the. Table at the oceans. Cop re
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Table at the oceans. Cop re level. Democrats have long been marine.
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Environmental targets. Both internationally and domestically, including through. The ratification of the Global
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Oceans Treaty. This bill is welcome, but we must not be complacent. Global plastic.
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Global plastic. Production and waste have doubled in the last 20 years. Over 12 million tonnes of plastic is dumped into the ocean every single year. This is putting countless species at This is putting countless species at risk of extinction. In 2023, the BBC reported that three there were more
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reported that three there were more than 170 trillion pieces of plastic floating in the world's oceans. That is.
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Simply shocking and totally unacceptable. Biodiversity relies on. Healthy oceans, but plastic
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Healthy oceans, but plastic pollution and climate change and unsustainable fishing practices are destroying our marine biodiversity. destroying our marine biodiversity. With 10% of marine species now at With 10% of marine species now at risk, we must act now. Communities across the world rely on the oceans for their livelihoods, jobs and food for their livelihoods, jobs and food security. We all rely on the oceans for our livelihoods, but we are taking more from the ocean than can be replenished. There's 90% of big fish populations depleted and 50% of coral reefs already destroyed.
The first Ocean Cop is on the horizon for next year, and this will give the UK an important seat at the table. If we.
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Ratify the treaty. In time. Well, but the UK should champion further measures to protect champion further measures to protect our oceans, including a ban on bottom trawling in marine protected bottom trawling in marine protected areas. Bottom trawling is the most terrifying practice that damage the terrifying practice that damage the seabed, kill animals and plants indiscriminately and release carbon at a very, very large proportion from this lethal driving. A climate change. And whoever hasn't watched change.
And whoever hasn't watched the. The documentary by David Attenborough. Oceans please do. It Attenborough. Oceans please do. It is. Terrifying. And I have, once I watched him made a pledge would not eat fish until at least we have signed the ocean treaties. So there is a personal reason why. Why I push is a personal reason why. Why I push a government for early ratification. I love fish and I think this should I love fish and I think this should not be a call not to eat fish.
It is about protecting the oceans. And the good thing about the David good thing about the David Attenborough film, if you if you watch as a positive thing, is marine, the oceans can actually marine, the oceans can actually recover very quickly if we give it the option to recover. And this is the option to recover. And this is why today is such an important day. The British public are with us. 81% of British adults are saying they would like to see bottom trawling banned in MPAs, according to polling from Oceana.
And the Environmental Audit Committee is also backing the call for banning bottom trawling. In September, Defra told the Environmental Audit Committee that it would not throw out an outright ban. I implore the government to reconsider. We must also manage our territorial waters effectively. We could start by implementing the Fisheries Act 2020 and for through this we can reform the fishing quota distribution to phase out the fixed quota allocation system, which largely rewards those with the deepest pockets. This can be replaced with a system which rewards and incentivises lower impacts from fishing that deliver environmental, social and economic benefits to communities around our coast.
We must also look closely at illegal and unregulated fishing, hidden overfishing, which is when illegal discards are unaccounted for and fishing quotas are driving stocks into severe decline. Marine groups are urging the government to introduce a strategy to tackle overfishing by the end of 2026, including catch limits and deal with officials adjusting to lower cash limits. Transparency around enforcement and monitoring of fishing activities in UK seas is not adequate. The Marine Management Organisation is not even required to publish data around enforcement of fishing regulations.
We were told that post-Brexit UK would establish best in class fisheries management as an independent coastal stage, but we have not taken advantage of this freedom to strengthen our regulations. Madam Deputy Speaker, I welcome this bill as an important starting point. But if we are serious about protecting our planet's blue health, this must be just the beginning of real action to restore the health of oceans across the world and here at home. And I repeat, the Liberal Democrats call
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for a coherent oceans policy. Package.
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Madam Deputy Speaker, am delighted to. Rise to. Support the Biodiversity Beyond
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Support the Biodiversity Beyond National Jurisdiction Bill today. The introduction of this legislation marks the beginning of a process for marks the beginning of a process for the UK to ratify and then implement the Global Oceans Treaty.
Wera Hobhouse MP (Bath, Liberal Democrat)
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Democrat colleagues, the government. To finally bring. Forward this legislation. It is disappointing that the UK was not among the first 60.
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among the first 60. Countries. Who reached the threshold to get this treaty ratified, especially this treaty ratified, especially given the long cross-party support in this House. But I hope.
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allow. The UK a seat. At the. Table at the oceans. Cop re
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Table at the oceans. Cop re level. Democrats have long been marine.
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Environmental targets. Both internationally and domestically, including through. The ratification of the Global
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Oceans Treaty. This bill is welcome, but we must not be complacent. Global plastic.
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Global plastic. Production and waste have doubled in the last 20 years. Over 12 million tonnes of plastic is dumped into the ocean every single year. This is putting countless species at This is putting countless species at risk of extinction. In 2023, the BBC reported that three there were more
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reported that three there were more than 170 trillion pieces of plastic floating in the world's oceans. That is.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Simply shocking and totally unacceptable. Biodiversity relies on. Healthy oceans, but plastic
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Healthy oceans, but plastic pollution and climate change and unsustainable fishing practices are destroying our marine biodiversity. destroying our marine biodiversity. With 10% of marine species now at With 10% of marine species now at risk, we must act now. Communities across the world rely on the oceans for their livelihoods, jobs and food for their livelihoods, jobs and food security. We all rely on the oceans for our livelihoods, but we are taking more from the ocean than can be replenished. There's 90% of big fish populations depleted and 50% of coral reefs already destroyed.
The first Ocean Cop is on the horizon for next year, and this will give the UK an important seat at the table. If we.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Ratify the treaty. In time. Well, but the UK should champion further measures to protect champion further measures to protect our oceans, including a ban on bottom trawling in marine protected bottom trawling in marine protected areas. Bottom trawling is the most terrifying practice that damage the terrifying practice that damage the seabed, kill animals and plants indiscriminately and release carbon at a very, very large proportion from this lethal driving. A climate change. And whoever hasn't watched change.
And whoever hasn't watched the. The documentary by David Attenborough. Oceans please do. It Attenborough. Oceans please do. It is. Terrifying. And I have, once I watched him made a pledge would not eat fish until at least we have signed the ocean treaties. So there is a personal reason why. Why I push is a personal reason why. Why I push a government for early ratification. I love fish and I think this should I love fish and I think this should not be a call not to eat fish.
It is about protecting the oceans. And the good thing about the David good thing about the David Attenborough film, if you if you watch as a positive thing, is marine, the oceans can actually marine, the oceans can actually recover very quickly if we give it the option to recover. And this is the option to recover. And this is why today is such an important day. The British public are with us. 81% of British adults are saying they would like to see bottom trawling banned in MPAs, according to polling from Oceana.
And the Environmental Audit Committee is also backing the call for banning bottom trawling. In September, Defra told the Environmental Audit Committee that it would not throw out an outright ban. I implore the government to reconsider. We must also manage our territorial waters effectively. We could start by implementing the Fisheries Act 2020 and for through this we can reform the fishing quota distribution to phase out the fixed quota allocation system, which largely rewards those with the deepest pockets. This can be replaced with a system which rewards and incentivises lower impacts from fishing that deliver environmental, social and economic benefits to communities around our coast.
We must also look closely at illegal and unregulated fishing, hidden overfishing, which is when illegal discards are unaccounted for and fishing quotas are driving stocks into severe decline. Marine groups are urging the government to introduce a strategy to tackle overfishing by the end of 2026, including catch limits and deal with officials adjusting to lower cash limits. Transparency around enforcement and monitoring of fishing activities in UK seas is not adequate. The Marine Management Organisation is not even required to publish data around enforcement of fishing regulations.
We were told that post-Brexit UK would establish best in class fisheries management as an independent coastal stage, but we have not taken advantage of this freedom to strengthen our regulations. Madam Deputy Speaker, I welcome this bill as an important starting point. But if we are serious about protecting our planet's blue health, this must be just the beginning of real action to restore the health of oceans across the world and here at home. And I repeat, the Liberal Democrats call
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for a coherent oceans policy. Package.
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Madam Deputy Speaker, am delighted to. Rise to. Support the Biodiversity Beyond
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Support the Biodiversity Beyond National Jurisdiction Bill today. The introduction of this legislation marks the beginning of a process for marks the beginning of a process for the UK to ratify and then implement the Global Oceans Treaty.
13:45
Mr Toby Perkins MP (Chesterfield, Labour)
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the Global Oceans Treaty. the. Protection of. International marine life. Currently. No. Protection exists for wildlife
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Protection exists for wildlife such as turtles, dolphins who inhabit the high seas over. Which no.
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Which no. One country has jurisdiction. The ocean, covering more. Than. 70% of the surface of our
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Than. 70% of the surface of our planet, is a vital shared resource. It provides a. Sustenance. Oxygen and. Genetic resources.
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For food. Medicines and research. It is also our. Greatest ally.
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In the fight against climate change. As the largest carbon. Sink on the planet. It is, however.
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It is, however. Also an ecosystem under. Perilous threat. The increased ocean temperatures are.
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are. Symptomatic of the warming too. Through a decreased. Capacity to absorb carbon.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
absorb carbon. Dioxide in the atmosphere. loss. Of.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Vital marine life and resources. The introduction. Of this legislation today reaffirms this government's
**** Possible New Speaker ****
reaffirms this government's dedication to protecting global. Marine life. As well as. Mitigating climate change and.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Improving our natural environment. And in the current moment where the. Environmental consensus. Is at risk.
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Is at risk. And there are those who would. Retreat from the world and pretend that we can draw up a pretend that we can draw up a metaphorical drawbridge and keep us safe behind the safety of political castle walls.
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castle walls. marker. Of this. Government's commitment
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Of this. Government's commitment to multilateral processes, which in fact, are the only. Way. challenges.
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challenges. Of our time. And I have to say that this is one of many.
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Debates on the environment and nature that I have. Attended in. Recent weeks and months.
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Recent weeks and months. At which not a. Single Conservative MP backbencher has bothered to turn up. backbencher has bothered to turn up. And I do not say that to throw my nose at them. I say that because I
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think it is profoundly depressing that His Majesty's. Official. Position of I oppose the Tory party with every fibre. Of.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
My being, but they are one of the great political parties of Western Europe. Over the last 100, 200 and more years. And they have not just
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given up, they are just not interested. And it's. Not just today. It is debate after debate that I
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It is debate after debate that I attend where some hard working frontbencher turns up and.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Not a. Single person. Sits behind them. And I say to
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them in most earnest sincerity, election defeats are disappointing. The Tory. Party has got a man out. You've
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Party has got a man out. You've got to turn up, you've got to start taking this seriously because these
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taking this seriously because these importance. And we cannot. Have the official opposition just refusing to engage.
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Quite right. The I have to say also that the comments from the honourable gentleman from lukewarm were pretty, pretty lukewarm. And I understand pretty lukewarm. And I understand that the previous government looked at this for quite some time. It never got so far as to legislating never got so far as to legislating and listening to what he was saying, and I was left still uncertain how and I was left still uncertain how supported they actually were of the measures that are being proposed.
Will find out more during the Will find out more during the committee stage, but I hope that they are having committed in opposition in government that never opposition in government that never actually legislating. They are not going to get behind this important legislation. Now, as we've heard before, this bill fulfils the commitment that the Labour government made at the UN Ocean Conference and indeed meant made in opposition and the oceans need UK leadership and action. The evidence that the EEC received during our recent inquiry on governing the marine environment paints a worrying picture of the state of the marine environment.
Globally. It's under threat from global warming, from pollution, from overexploitation, leading to a 49% decline in populations of marine mammals, birds, reptiles and fish species, according to the Living Planet Index. And UK seas are also in poor condition, failing and most of the indicators of good environmental status. In the most recent assessment by the government. There
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is some good news, however, which is that marine conservation efforts are effective when we. Do it well.
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Do it well. Whilst only 9% of the ocean is currently protected in the marine protected area, remarkably, half of all catalogued marine species have been reported in that 9% of areas, been reported in that 9% of areas, 72% of the species facing extinction have found refuge within marine have found refuge within marine protected areas, and the government is taking important action to better protect the 38% of UK seas already designated as marine protected areas. I repeat, what has been said by other colleagues that we want to by other colleagues that we want to see the government going further.
Currently, damaging activities can Currently, damaging activities can still take place in these areas, but that consultation that the Honourable friend from Hull West and Honourable friend from Hull West and Holton Price referred to is vitally important. Nearly two thirds of the important. Nearly two thirds of the ocean is considered high seas or international waters, which poses a governance and logistical challenge. governance and logistical challenge. How is it possible to protect the areas which are beyond the jurisdiction of any one nation? And jurisdiction of any one nation? And that's why the Global Oceans Treaty of 2023 was so significant.
It does of 2023 was so significant. It does mark a landmark moment in providing the legal foundation to establish MPAs in areas beyond national jurisdiction and the creation of protected areas in the high seas is essential to making 30 by 30 a reality. Now, this bill, which establishes the legal framework necessary for the UK to meet its obligations, is vitally important, and its Royal Assent lays the groundwork for the UK to ratify the agreement. As we've already heard, 60 countries have already ratified the treaty.
It will come into force next January, and the first UN Ocean Conference will be held within the year. So it is vital the UK gets on with ratifying that treaty so it can be party to discussions and can shape agreements. Setting out a timeline for the UK's ratification of the global ocean treaties. One of the key recommendations of the Environmental Audit Committee. So we welcome the Prime Minister, Honourable friend from Western Forest, keeping their word on this. This is a narrow bill which allows the UK to fulfil our global commitment.
I would caution well-meaning allies against extending the process or undermining the commitment that governments make by attempting to attach other commitments that aren't actually relevant to this bill and create division where actually what we need is unity on this incredibly important area. I do believe that ratification of this treaty is but the start. We have much more to do to protect 30% of the oceans by 2030 and to establish marine sanctuaries where marine life can thrive. So, in conclusion, Madam Deputy Speaker, I strongly support this bill.
I look forward to its passage through Parliament. I thank the government for prioritising this despite a heavy legislative workload. It is a welcome development, providing the powers and regulations needed for the UK to ratify the treaty and working with other nations to do so.
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In Roz Savage. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. The oceans have long struggled to get the attention that struggled to get the attention that they deserve. There are no voters out there on the ocean, and it's thanks to Sir David Attenborough and the many filmmakers and
Mr Toby Perkins MP (Chesterfield, Labour)
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the Global Oceans Treaty. the. Protection of. International marine life. Currently. No. Protection exists for wildlife
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Protection exists for wildlife such as turtles, dolphins who inhabit the high seas over. Which no.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Which no. One country has jurisdiction. The ocean, covering more. Than. 70% of the surface of our
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Than. 70% of the surface of our planet, is a vital shared resource. It provides a. Sustenance. Oxygen and. Genetic resources.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
For food. Medicines and research. It is also our. Greatest ally.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
In the fight against climate change. As the largest carbon. Sink on the planet. It is, however.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
It is, however. Also an ecosystem under. Perilous threat. The increased ocean temperatures are.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
are. Symptomatic of the warming too. Through a decreased. Capacity to absorb carbon.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
absorb carbon. Dioxide in the atmosphere. loss. Of.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Vital marine life and resources. The introduction. Of this legislation today reaffirms this government's
**** Possible New Speaker ****
reaffirms this government's dedication to protecting global. Marine life. As well as. Mitigating climate change and.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Improving our natural environment. And in the current moment where the. Environmental consensus. Is at risk.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Is at risk. And there are those who would. Retreat from the world and pretend that we can draw up a pretend that we can draw up a metaphorical drawbridge and keep us safe behind the safety of political castle walls.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
castle walls. marker. Of this. Government's commitment
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Of this. Government's commitment to multilateral processes, which in fact, are the only. Way. challenges.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
challenges. Of our time. And I have to say that this is one of many.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Debates on the environment and nature that I have. Attended in. Recent weeks and months.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Recent weeks and months. At which not a. Single Conservative MP backbencher has bothered to turn up. backbencher has bothered to turn up. And I do not say that to throw my nose at them. I say that because I
**** Possible New Speaker ****
think it is profoundly depressing that His Majesty's. Official. Position of I oppose the Tory party with every fibre. Of.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
My being, but they are one of the great political parties of Western Europe. Over the last 100, 200 and more years. And they have not just
**** Possible New Speaker ****
given up, they are just not interested. And it's. Not just today. It is debate after debate that I
**** Possible New Speaker ****
It is debate after debate that I attend where some hard working frontbencher turns up and.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Not a. Single person. Sits behind them. And I say to
**** Possible New Speaker ****
them in most earnest sincerity, election defeats are disappointing. The Tory. Party has got a man out. You've
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Party has got a man out. You've got to turn up, you've got to start taking this seriously because these
**** Possible New Speaker ****
taking this seriously because these importance. And we cannot. Have the official opposition just refusing to engage.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Quite right. The I have to say also that the comments from the honourable gentleman from lukewarm were pretty, pretty lukewarm. And I understand pretty lukewarm. And I understand that the previous government looked at this for quite some time. It never got so far as to legislating never got so far as to legislating and listening to what he was saying, and I was left still uncertain how and I was left still uncertain how supported they actually were of the measures that are being proposed.
Will find out more during the Will find out more during the committee stage, but I hope that they are having committed in opposition in government that never opposition in government that never actually legislating. They are not going to get behind this important legislation. Now, as we've heard before, this bill fulfils the commitment that the Labour government made at the UN Ocean Conference and indeed meant made in opposition and the oceans need UK leadership and action. The evidence that the EEC received during our recent inquiry on governing the marine environment paints a worrying picture of the state of the marine environment.
Globally. It's under threat from global warming, from pollution, from overexploitation, leading to a 49% decline in populations of marine mammals, birds, reptiles and fish species, according to the Living Planet Index. And UK seas are also in poor condition, failing and most of the indicators of good environmental status. In the most recent assessment by the government. There
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is some good news, however, which is that marine conservation efforts are effective when we. Do it well.
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Do it well. Whilst only 9% of the ocean is currently protected in the marine protected area, remarkably, half of all catalogued marine species have been reported in that 9% of areas, been reported in that 9% of areas, 72% of the species facing extinction have found refuge within marine have found refuge within marine protected areas, and the government is taking important action to better protect the 38% of UK seas already designated as marine protected areas. I repeat, what has been said by other colleagues that we want to by other colleagues that we want to see the government going further.
Currently, damaging activities can Currently, damaging activities can still take place in these areas, but that consultation that the Honourable friend from Hull West and Honourable friend from Hull West and Holton Price referred to is vitally important. Nearly two thirds of the important. Nearly two thirds of the ocean is considered high seas or international waters, which poses a governance and logistical challenge. governance and logistical challenge. How is it possible to protect the areas which are beyond the jurisdiction of any one nation? And jurisdiction of any one nation? And that's why the Global Oceans Treaty of 2023 was so significant.
It does of 2023 was so significant. It does mark a landmark moment in providing the legal foundation to establish MPAs in areas beyond national jurisdiction and the creation of protected areas in the high seas is essential to making 30 by 30 a reality. Now, this bill, which establishes the legal framework necessary for the UK to meet its obligations, is vitally important, and its Royal Assent lays the groundwork for the UK to ratify the agreement. As we've already heard, 60 countries have already ratified the treaty.
It will come into force next January, and the first UN Ocean Conference will be held within the year. So it is vital the UK gets on with ratifying that treaty so it can be party to discussions and can shape agreements. Setting out a timeline for the UK's ratification of the global ocean treaties. One of the key recommendations of the Environmental Audit Committee. So we welcome the Prime Minister, Honourable friend from Western Forest, keeping their word on this. This is a narrow bill which allows the UK to fulfil our global commitment.
I would caution well-meaning allies against extending the process or undermining the commitment that governments make by attempting to attach other commitments that aren't actually relevant to this bill and create division where actually what we need is unity on this incredibly important area. I do believe that ratification of this treaty is but the start. We have much more to do to protect 30% of the oceans by 2030 and to establish marine sanctuaries where marine life can thrive. So, in conclusion, Madam Deputy Speaker, I strongly support this bill.
I look forward to its passage through Parliament. I thank the government for prioritising this despite a heavy legislative workload. It is a welcome development, providing the powers and regulations needed for the UK to ratify the treaty and working with other nations to do so.
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In Roz Savage. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. The oceans have long struggled to get the attention that struggled to get the attention that they deserve. There are no voters out there on the ocean, and it's thanks to Sir David Attenborough and the many filmmakers and
13:52
Dr Roz Savage MP (South Cotswolds, Liberal Democrat)
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Dr Roz Savage MP (South Cotswolds, Liberal Democrat)
the many filmmakers and photographers who, over the years, have brought the oceans into our living rooms and helped us to get to know them and to care about them. Most of us only get to experience oceans from a beach, or from 30,000ft looking down from an aeroplane window at a vast, endless blue expanse. But I've spent months and months and months alone out on the ocean, a long way beyond national jurisdictions, roaming across oceans to raise awareness of the environmental crisis facing our world, and particularly the parts of it that are blue.
I was trying to bring a human face to the plight facing our oceans. Out there in the middle of an ocean, when you haven't seen dry land for several months and thousands of miles separate you from the nearest landmass, and the nearest human beings are in the international space ship. It really does feel that you are well beyond jurisdictions and often beyond justice. It was out there that I came to understand both the power and the fragility of the ocean.
In that lawless place, you see its beauty, its bounty, but also its vulnerability to what we humans choose to do. The ocean has no voice in this place. And so today we are being its voice. The ocean may seem boundless, but it is not indestructible. We've polluted it over, fished it, and warmed it. The deep sea home to some of the most extraordinary forms of life on earth. I was particularly pleased to hear the minister refer to sunfish earlier.
Surely the weirdest creatures that I have ever seen, for sure. But it's increasingly targeted for exploitation. We actually know the surface of the moon better than we know the bottom of the ocean. There is a real danger that we could destroy species before we even know that they exist. More than 60% of the world's surface, and nearly three quarters of its ocean volume lie out there in the places beyond any country's control. For centuries, the high seas have been treated as no one's responsibility beyond the environment, a lawless expanse, still only 1% is properly protected today.
Meanwhile, overfishing, pollution and deep sea mining are degrading ecosystems that we barely understand. The ocean is becoming more acidic, threatening the existence of plankton, the base of the entire marine food chain, and weakening the ocean's capacity to absorb carbon and regulate our climate. This is what is at stake. The health of the ocean is the health of our planet. And that's why the Biodiversity Beyond National Jurisdiction treaty, the BMJ, matters so profoundly. It's the first global treaty to bring order, fairness and protection to the high seas.
It offers a framework to manage those shared waters responsibly and to ensure that the benefits of ocean science are shared globally, not hoarded by the few. When early this year, I brought the Climate and Nature Bill to this House, I further pressed the government to commit to ratifying the BBJ, and I am pleased and thankful that they're now delivering on that promise. And I particularly, again, thank the Water Minister for her long term persistence and commitment to this cause. It shows that when we work together across the House, we can turn ambition into action.
But ratification is only the beginning. Turning this treaty into practical reality will demand coordination, funding and focus. So I would like to ask the Minister a few practical questions about implementation from the Fcdo perspective, and I have sent these questions to her office. First, on institutional coordination, how will departments such as the Fcdo, Defra and the Department of Transport work together to manage marine genetic resources, environmental assessments and new conservation tools under a single coherent system? Secondly, on enforcement, what mechanisms will ensure compliance by US, UK vessels and research institutions operating beyond national jurisdiction? Given the very real challenges of which I am keenly aware of surveillance and jurisdiction at sea.
Thirdly, on resourcing and capacity, has the government assessed the staffing, budgets and technical resources needed to set up the new repositories, databases and administrative systems required by the BMJ? Fourthly, on transparency and fairness, what plans are in place to ensure that the data held by those repositories, such as the National History Museum and the National Oceanography Centre, are accessible and interoperable, especially for developing countries, including those small island states. In line with the Vpn's principle of equitable benefit sharing.
And finally, on international engagement with the first oceans Cop expected in 2026. How will the UK prepare to shape the operational details of the agreement at the international level, and who will be representing us at that table? These questions matter because they determine whether this bill delivers real protection, not just good intentions. Our scientists are ready to lead the national Oceanography Oceanography Centre, with its cutting edge research and fleet of autonomous submersible vessels known as Boaty Mcboatface, is already mapping deep sea currents and gathering the knowledge that we need to understand and protect the ocean under the BPA.
That vital work becomes part of a global effort to heal the seas. Madam Deputy Speaker, the ocean is the blue heart of our planet. It gives us half of the oxygen we breathe. It shapes our weather and sustains life on a scale that defies our humble human imaginations. If that heart falters, everything we depend on is at risk. We often think of oceans as dividing nations, but actually they connect us. They unite us. We are, so to speak.
All in the same boat. As the great American oceanographer Doctor Sylvia Earle said, we need to respect the oceans and take care of them as if our lives depended on it, because they do. By ratifying and implementing the BMJ, we can help turn the tide. Sorry, I just can't help it. Let this be the Parliament that gave the ocean a voice and a future. Thank you. Thank you. Barry Gardiner.
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Madam Deputy Speaker. It's almost 19. Years since I first met Professor
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Years since I first met Professor Alex Rogers. It was a two day conference in Somerville College,
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Oxford, convened by the Global Balanced. Environment.
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And the subject was. International Law. On the High Seas. The young postdoctoral fellow
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The young postdoctoral fellow biodiversity. Of our global. Ocean, and I use the singular
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Ocean, and I use the singular deliberately. But he also frustrated us by explaining. That the.
I was trying to bring a human face to the plight facing our oceans. Out there in the middle of an ocean, when you haven't seen dry land for several months and thousands of miles separate you from the nearest landmass, and the nearest human beings are in the international space ship. It really does feel that you are well beyond jurisdictions and often beyond justice. It was out there that I came to understand both the power and the fragility of the ocean.
In that lawless place, you see its beauty, its bounty, but also its vulnerability to what we humans choose to do. The ocean has no voice in this place. And so today we are being its voice. The ocean may seem boundless, but it is not indestructible. We've polluted it over, fished it, and warmed it. The deep sea home to some of the most extraordinary forms of life on earth. I was particularly pleased to hear the minister refer to sunfish earlier.
Surely the weirdest creatures that I have ever seen, for sure. But it's increasingly targeted for exploitation. We actually know the surface of the moon better than we know the bottom of the ocean. There is a real danger that we could destroy species before we even know that they exist. More than 60% of the world's surface, and nearly three quarters of its ocean volume lie out there in the places beyond any country's control. For centuries, the high seas have been treated as no one's responsibility beyond the environment, a lawless expanse, still only 1% is properly protected today.
Meanwhile, overfishing, pollution and deep sea mining are degrading ecosystems that we barely understand. The ocean is becoming more acidic, threatening the existence of plankton, the base of the entire marine food chain, and weakening the ocean's capacity to absorb carbon and regulate our climate. This is what is at stake. The health of the ocean is the health of our planet. And that's why the Biodiversity Beyond National Jurisdiction treaty, the BMJ, matters so profoundly. It's the first global treaty to bring order, fairness and protection to the high seas.
It offers a framework to manage those shared waters responsibly and to ensure that the benefits of ocean science are shared globally, not hoarded by the few. When early this year, I brought the Climate and Nature Bill to this House, I further pressed the government to commit to ratifying the BBJ, and I am pleased and thankful that they're now delivering on that promise. And I particularly, again, thank the Water Minister for her long term persistence and commitment to this cause. It shows that when we work together across the House, we can turn ambition into action.
But ratification is only the beginning. Turning this treaty into practical reality will demand coordination, funding and focus. So I would like to ask the Minister a few practical questions about implementation from the Fcdo perspective, and I have sent these questions to her office. First, on institutional coordination, how will departments such as the Fcdo, Defra and the Department of Transport work together to manage marine genetic resources, environmental assessments and new conservation tools under a single coherent system? Secondly, on enforcement, what mechanisms will ensure compliance by US, UK vessels and research institutions operating beyond national jurisdiction? Given the very real challenges of which I am keenly aware of surveillance and jurisdiction at sea.
Thirdly, on resourcing and capacity, has the government assessed the staffing, budgets and technical resources needed to set up the new repositories, databases and administrative systems required by the BMJ? Fourthly, on transparency and fairness, what plans are in place to ensure that the data held by those repositories, such as the National History Museum and the National Oceanography Centre, are accessible and interoperable, especially for developing countries, including those small island states. In line with the Vpn's principle of equitable benefit sharing.
And finally, on international engagement with the first oceans Cop expected in 2026. How will the UK prepare to shape the operational details of the agreement at the international level, and who will be representing us at that table? These questions matter because they determine whether this bill delivers real protection, not just good intentions. Our scientists are ready to lead the national Oceanography Oceanography Centre, with its cutting edge research and fleet of autonomous submersible vessels known as Boaty Mcboatface, is already mapping deep sea currents and gathering the knowledge that we need to understand and protect the ocean under the BPA.
That vital work becomes part of a global effort to heal the seas. Madam Deputy Speaker, the ocean is the blue heart of our planet. It gives us half of the oxygen we breathe. It shapes our weather and sustains life on a scale that defies our humble human imaginations. If that heart falters, everything we depend on is at risk. We often think of oceans as dividing nations, but actually they connect us. They unite us. We are, so to speak.
All in the same boat. As the great American oceanographer Doctor Sylvia Earle said, we need to respect the oceans and take care of them as if our lives depended on it, because they do. By ratifying and implementing the BMJ, we can help turn the tide. Sorry, I just can't help it. Let this be the Parliament that gave the ocean a voice and a future. Thank you. Thank you. Barry Gardiner.
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Madam Deputy Speaker. It's almost 19. Years since I first met Professor
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Years since I first met Professor Alex Rogers. It was a two day conference in Somerville College,
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Oxford, convened by the Global Balanced. Environment.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
And the subject was. International Law. On the High Seas. The young postdoctoral fellow
**** Possible New Speaker ****
The young postdoctoral fellow biodiversity. Of our global. Ocean, and I use the singular
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Ocean, and I use the singular deliberately. But he also frustrated us by explaining. That the.
14:01
Barry Gardiner MP (Brent West, Labour)
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International community lacked any legal framework to protect it. any legal framework to protect it. The ocean accounts for 99% of our planet by volume, nearly two thirds by surface area. Every second breath we take is supplied to us by the ocean. 90% of the excess heat in the climate system has been absorbed by the ocean. The ocean is our greatest nature based solution to climate change.
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And it's only. By restoring the health of our marine ecosystems that we can
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marine ecosystems that we can deliver on our promise. To meet. The 30 by 30 target contained in the Kunming Montreal.
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Global. Biodiversity Framework. So the. BPA treaty is the essential missing part of that jigsaw. This is why
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today's debate is. So important, why this bill is. So important. The Biodiversity Beyond National.
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The Biodiversity Beyond National. Jurisdiction bill is both welcome. It's necessary. But we. Must.
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Must. and. What. It's not. Not in order to. Understate what the bill does.
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Understate what the bill does. But to understand. Clearly what action. We must take. Following its passage, we'll need
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Following its passage, we'll need secondary. Legislation to implement the treaty. And dare I say it before the budget statement? It will the budget statement? It will require adequate funding. The treaty creates a framework for the establishment of protected areas of
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establishment of protected areas of the high seas, but. It does not, in and. Of itself create those protected
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Of itself create those protected areas. It's important, then, that the government starts to develop
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the government starts to develop especially. In regions of. The world where the UK is a party to the relevant regional fisheries management organisations, the RFA. I want to commend the department that is Defra, for the work it has already done in its stocktake of area based management tools in areas beyond national jurisdiction. This is a.
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Really important baseline and I would ask the minister. When responding. To set.
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To set. Out what further work is planned. To identify, support and deliver. To identify, support and deliver. Specific MPAs. I'm particularly keen to hear how she might develop the supplementary report that's already supplementary report that's already been prepared on the Sargasso Sea. Will she confirm that this internationally significant ecosystem is a priority for the development of an MPA? It's now 13 development of an MPA? It's now 13 years since the Sargasso Sea was successfully described as an absolute, an ecologically or absolute, an ecologically or biologically significant area.
Meeting all seven of the MSA Meeting all seven of the MSA criteria. Now, our country's history has left a legacy. That legacy is has left a legacy. That legacy is our exclusive economic zone. It is the fifth largest in the world. That's largely due to our remaining That's largely due to our remaining overseas territories. But that legacy also brings with it responsibilities. And here I do want
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responsibilities. And here I do want to pay tribute to the work of the previous Conservative. Administration. Who expanded the Blue Belt
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Who expanded the Blue Belt program to nominally protect over 4,000,000km² of ocean from Anguilla and the Caribbean to Pitcairn in the Indian Ocean in the last year. The program took satellite imagery of over 100,000,000km² of the Yukon's waters. The UK Overseas Territories waters providing crucial monitoring and surveillance to crack down on illegal, unreported and unregulated fishing activities. And it's this very tangible knowledge and expertise which the UK should be at the forefront of delivering through the first BBJ cop, which will take place within a year of the treaty.
Taking force from the 17th of January 26. I also welcome the announcement, following the Spending Review, that the Blue Belt program will receive increased funding for 2526. However, given that 2 million of the 8.6 million of this comes
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from Oda, which itself. Is being cut. I hope it won't seem churlish if
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I hope it won't seem churlish if I ask that the programme be ring fenced for the future. Now, for much fenced for the future. Now, for much of human history, we didn't need the BBA treaty. The high seas were protected from the worst impacts of protected from the worst impacts of human activity by the simple reality that they were so far from land and that they were so far from land and too difficult to access. The dawn of the industrial age and motorised the industrial age and motorised oceangoing vessels changed all that.
Even species that lived their home life hundreds of thousands of miles from land were no longer safe from human exploitation. And nothing human exploitation. And nothing epitomises the sad reality of that more than the slaughter of the great more than the slaughter of the great whaling. Industrialised whaling caused the deaths of nearly 3
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caused the deaths of nearly 3 million whales. Even the blue whale, the largest animal that has ever lived. So its numbers reduced. By more.
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By more. Than 90% their size, and the fact that they spent most of their lives that they spent most of their lives in inhospitable, hard to reach parts of the open ocean had kept them safe of the open ocean had kept them safe for millennia. But the introduction of new and more powerful technologies meant that even they. Became the victims of massive overexploitation. Today, there are fewer than 400 North Atlantic right whales left in our oceans.
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And why. Why, why was it called the right
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Why, why was it called the right whale? Ironically, it acquired its name because it was rich in blubber
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name because it was rich in blubber and Bayley. It moved slowly and floated after being. Killed, so.
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Killed, so. It was easily towed in to be butchered. So it was deemed the butchered. So it was deemed the right whale to hunt. That's why it got its name. The history of these got its name. The history of these great mammals shows just why we now need the change. Biodiversity is no need the change. Biodiversity is no longer protected by its remoteness from land. Human greed will destroy it wherever it is found.
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it wherever it is found. On our planet. Unless we act decisively to regulate our most destructive activities today. Although the international whaling ban is still
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international whaling ban is still ignored by a few countries, whales on. The hunt.
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The hunt. But they are killed by ship strikes and they are entangled in fishing gear. And I emphasise the importance of the international ban, not just because I believe it's one not just because I believe it's one of the most important conservation achievements of the 20th century, but because it was a great achievement. Of multilateralism, something not much in vogue at the moment. And it shows how by acting in concert with other nations, we can mobilise popular support around environmental objectives with both a clear ecological and a clear moral purpose, and we can achieve results.
I regard it as an inspiration and a template for what we are now doing
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in the BMJ. The huge factory ships largely. Gone.
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But in their place, equally large factory ships now plunder the ocean a bit as if it were a bottomless pit a bit as if it were a bottomless pit of profit. There are long liners setting fishing hooks, lines tens of setting fishing hooks, lines tens of kilometres long, each with up to 15,000 hooks and huge personnels using nets that are two kilometres using nets that are two kilometres long and 200m deep. Imagine a net long and 200m deep.
Imagine a net twice as deep as big band. The Queen Elizabeth Tower is tall and Elizabeth Tower is tall and stretching out so far from this House of Commons, so as to take in the whole of Buckingham Palace and the whole of Buckingham Palace and most of its gardens. These fishing enterprises devastate the very populations they are targeting. That is why we need this bill. Earlier this year, Cifas, the centre for Environmental Fisheries and Agriculture, the government's own marine experts, found that over half of the UK's key fishing quotas were of the UK's key fishing quotas were set above the levels recommended by scientists.
Overfishing has led to a 98% collapse in Celtic sea cod populations since 2012, had an 84% collapse whiting and 85% collapse herring and 80% collapse. Just two weeks ago. The scientific assessment of mackerel showed that the species has now declined by 78% in the last ten years, and despite continued advice from scientists to reduce catch quotas, this has not happened. So whilst on the one hand the UK has been a world leader with the Blue Belt programme, we continue to practice the opposite of what we preach at home, most notably through disastrous sustainable catch limits and quotas.
Worse. We've driven out small fishing fleets, leaving our seas vulnerable to the monstrous mega ships whose bottom trawling scrapes away the existence of all life in its path. And the inequitable quote allocation formalised in 1999, has resulted in over 90% of the quota from mackerel,
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herring and blue fighting being. Held. By just 20 companies, most of
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By just 20 companies, most of them not even British. Half of English quotas held by Dutch, English quotas held by Dutch, Icelandic and Spanish interests. More than half of Northern Ireland quota is held by just one trawler company, and 85% of quota is held by Spanish companies. The system has Spanish companies. The system has been rigged against the UK's inshore fleet and its independent fishers. fleet and its independent fishers. All this, all this was done by UK companies selling their quota abroad.
But it's the awful consequence of the privatisation of consequence of the privatisation of a public good. Our fisheries and the a public good. Our fisheries and the UK taxpayer has received not a penny in benefit as a result of it. If the in benefit as a result of it. If the UK is to truly be a leader in the implementation of the BMJ, if we are implementation of the BMJ, if we are to demand of other nations that they kerb their rapacious plundering of the high seas, we must at the very the high seas, we must at the very least begin to stop the overexploitation of our stocks at overexploitation of our stocks at home, our ability to make our voice heard internationally will sound hollow if we continue to ignore the science and set what are politically led quota allocations at home.
I see fisheries often have unimaginably high levels of bycatch, and this is particularly true of tuna fisheries, because tuna often screw with other pelagic species such as dolphins, manta rays, billfish. Indeed, many tuna species inhabit the same surface mixed layer of the ocean that is inhabited by vulnerable species like silky sharks or turtles. It's estimated that 100 million sharks are caught every year, most as bycatch in high seas fisheries. It's no wonder, then, that the large open ocean sharks have declined by at least 70% in the last 50 years, almost entirely due to high seas fishing, where they are either targeted.
Or caught as. Bycatch beyond.
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jurisdiction. The letter that threatened the largest turtle in the world is largest turtle in the world is threatened with extinction because it is so often caught as bycatch by pressing fleets of fishing vessels pressing fleets of fishing vessels on the high seas. In the IUCN Red List of Endangered Species, List of Endangered Species, published just last week, only one of the 22 species of albatross is not threatened with extinction through being. Caught as bycatch on hooks on longline fishing fleets in hooks on longline fishing fleets in the open ocean, just as distance from land once provided protection from land once provided protection for many species in the preindustrial era, the same can be said of the deep seas.
Until said of the deep seas. Until recently, the deep ocean was out of reach for human activity. Unfortunately, this is no longer the case. Industrialised fishing fleets are now able to fish deeper and are now able to fish deeper and deeper, but many deep sea species are slow growing and orange roughy are slow growing and orange roughy only reaches sexual maturity between the ages of 20 and 30 years, much the ages of 20 and 30 years, much older than shallower water fish.
These factors make deep sea species uniquely vulnerable to overfishing,
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uniquely vulnerable to overfishing, and as many of the deepest waters. Are on. The high seas, we need to ensure that the BBA protects them and their habitat better. Deep sea fishing, especially on seamounts, poses an existential risk to many deep sea ecosystems, and bottom trawling, which is devastating in coastal and shallow seas, is arguably even more so on the high seas. Bottom trawlers tend to focus on seamounts, as these underwater mountains act as biodiversity hotspots and the open ocean.
I seek the Minister's assurance that in considering next steps after ratification, establishing protections around seamounts on the high seas will be one of the government's priorities. And I would ask for the same assurance in relation to the issue of deep seabed mining. I trust the government will continue to oppose any developments of this on the high seas. The bill before us is excellent. It will delight the now Professor Alex Rogers, who I suspect is not at his desk either in Oxford or at the National Oceanography Centre, where he is now the science director.
Most probably he's out somewhere in the Antarctic Ocean in a submersible exploring the deep ocean, as he has now been doing for more than 30 years. If he were to take a break from his mission to discover 100,000 new marine species in the deep ocean in this. Decade and send us a message, I suspect it would be to emphasise the importance of getting this bill enacted quickly. If we have not ratified the treaty at least 40.
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Days before the first come, the. UK will not have a seat at the
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UK will not have a seat at the table. We will merely be a spectator as others set the ambition or the lack of it, as they roll out the implementation of the treaty. So I'd like to congratulate the Minister on bringing the bill to the House for its Second Reading and trust. We are able to see the whole ratification able to see the whole ratification process completed in time for the UK to make strong proposals at Cop one
Barry Gardiner MP (Brent West, Labour)
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International community lacked any legal framework to protect it. any legal framework to protect it. The ocean accounts for 99% of our planet by volume, nearly two thirds by surface area. Every second breath we take is supplied to us by the ocean. 90% of the excess heat in the climate system has been absorbed by the ocean. The ocean is our greatest nature based solution to climate change.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
And it's only. By restoring the health of our marine ecosystems that we can
**** Possible New Speaker ****
marine ecosystems that we can deliver on our promise. To meet. The 30 by 30 target contained in the Kunming Montreal.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Global. Biodiversity Framework. So the. BPA treaty is the essential missing part of that jigsaw. This is why
**** Possible New Speaker ****
today's debate is. So important, why this bill is. So important. The Biodiversity Beyond National.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
The Biodiversity Beyond National. Jurisdiction bill is both welcome. It's necessary. But we. Must.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Must. and. What. It's not. Not in order to. Understate what the bill does.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Understate what the bill does. But to understand. Clearly what action. We must take. Following its passage, we'll need
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Following its passage, we'll need secondary. Legislation to implement the treaty. And dare I say it before the budget statement? It will the budget statement? It will require adequate funding. The treaty creates a framework for the establishment of protected areas of
**** Possible New Speaker ****
establishment of protected areas of the high seas, but. It does not, in and. Of itself create those protected
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Of itself create those protected areas. It's important, then, that the government starts to develop
**** Possible New Speaker ****
the government starts to develop especially. In regions of. The world where the UK is a party to the relevant regional fisheries management organisations, the RFA. I want to commend the department that is Defra, for the work it has already done in its stocktake of area based management tools in areas beyond national jurisdiction. This is a.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Really important baseline and I would ask the minister. When responding. To set.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
To set. Out what further work is planned. To identify, support and deliver. To identify, support and deliver. Specific MPAs. I'm particularly keen to hear how she might develop the supplementary report that's already supplementary report that's already been prepared on the Sargasso Sea. Will she confirm that this internationally significant ecosystem is a priority for the development of an MPA? It's now 13 development of an MPA? It's now 13 years since the Sargasso Sea was successfully described as an absolute, an ecologically or absolute, an ecologically or biologically significant area.
Meeting all seven of the MSA Meeting all seven of the MSA criteria. Now, our country's history has left a legacy. That legacy is has left a legacy. That legacy is our exclusive economic zone. It is the fifth largest in the world. That's largely due to our remaining That's largely due to our remaining overseas territories. But that legacy also brings with it responsibilities. And here I do want
**** Possible New Speaker ****
responsibilities. And here I do want to pay tribute to the work of the previous Conservative. Administration. Who expanded the Blue Belt
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Who expanded the Blue Belt program to nominally protect over 4,000,000km² of ocean from Anguilla and the Caribbean to Pitcairn in the Indian Ocean in the last year. The program took satellite imagery of over 100,000,000km² of the Yukon's waters. The UK Overseas Territories waters providing crucial monitoring and surveillance to crack down on illegal, unreported and unregulated fishing activities. And it's this very tangible knowledge and expertise which the UK should be at the forefront of delivering through the first BBJ cop, which will take place within a year of the treaty.
Taking force from the 17th of January 26. I also welcome the announcement, following the Spending Review, that the Blue Belt program will receive increased funding for 2526. However, given that 2 million of the 8.6 million of this comes
**** Possible New Speaker ****
from Oda, which itself. Is being cut. I hope it won't seem churlish if
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I hope it won't seem churlish if I ask that the programme be ring fenced for the future. Now, for much fenced for the future. Now, for much of human history, we didn't need the BBA treaty. The high seas were protected from the worst impacts of protected from the worst impacts of human activity by the simple reality that they were so far from land and that they were so far from land and too difficult to access. The dawn of the industrial age and motorised the industrial age and motorised oceangoing vessels changed all that.
Even species that lived their home life hundreds of thousands of miles from land were no longer safe from human exploitation. And nothing human exploitation. And nothing epitomises the sad reality of that more than the slaughter of the great more than the slaughter of the great whaling. Industrialised whaling caused the deaths of nearly 3
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caused the deaths of nearly 3 million whales. Even the blue whale, the largest animal that has ever lived. So its numbers reduced. By more.
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By more. Than 90% their size, and the fact that they spent most of their lives that they spent most of their lives in inhospitable, hard to reach parts of the open ocean had kept them safe of the open ocean had kept them safe for millennia. But the introduction of new and more powerful technologies meant that even they. Became the victims of massive overexploitation. Today, there are fewer than 400 North Atlantic right whales left in our oceans.
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And why. Why, why was it called the right
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Why, why was it called the right whale? Ironically, it acquired its name because it was rich in blubber
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name because it was rich in blubber and Bayley. It moved slowly and floated after being. Killed, so.
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Killed, so. It was easily towed in to be butchered. So it was deemed the butchered. So it was deemed the right whale to hunt. That's why it got its name. The history of these got its name. The history of these great mammals shows just why we now need the change. Biodiversity is no need the change. Biodiversity is no longer protected by its remoteness from land. Human greed will destroy it wherever it is found.
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it wherever it is found. On our planet. Unless we act decisively to regulate our most destructive activities today. Although the international whaling ban is still
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international whaling ban is still ignored by a few countries, whales on. The hunt.
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The hunt. But they are killed by ship strikes and they are entangled in fishing gear. And I emphasise the importance of the international ban, not just because I believe it's one not just because I believe it's one of the most important conservation achievements of the 20th century, but because it was a great achievement. Of multilateralism, something not much in vogue at the moment. And it shows how by acting in concert with other nations, we can mobilise popular support around environmental objectives with both a clear ecological and a clear moral purpose, and we can achieve results.
I regard it as an inspiration and a template for what we are now doing
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in the BMJ. The huge factory ships largely. Gone.
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But in their place, equally large factory ships now plunder the ocean a bit as if it were a bottomless pit a bit as if it were a bottomless pit of profit. There are long liners setting fishing hooks, lines tens of setting fishing hooks, lines tens of kilometres long, each with up to 15,000 hooks and huge personnels using nets that are two kilometres using nets that are two kilometres long and 200m deep. Imagine a net long and 200m deep.
Imagine a net twice as deep as big band. The Queen Elizabeth Tower is tall and Elizabeth Tower is tall and stretching out so far from this House of Commons, so as to take in the whole of Buckingham Palace and the whole of Buckingham Palace and most of its gardens. These fishing enterprises devastate the very populations they are targeting. That is why we need this bill. Earlier this year, Cifas, the centre for Environmental Fisheries and Agriculture, the government's own marine experts, found that over half of the UK's key fishing quotas were of the UK's key fishing quotas were set above the levels recommended by scientists.
Overfishing has led to a 98% collapse in Celtic sea cod populations since 2012, had an 84% collapse whiting and 85% collapse herring and 80% collapse. Just two weeks ago. The scientific assessment of mackerel showed that the species has now declined by 78% in the last ten years, and despite continued advice from scientists to reduce catch quotas, this has not happened. So whilst on the one hand the UK has been a world leader with the Blue Belt programme, we continue to practice the opposite of what we preach at home, most notably through disastrous sustainable catch limits and quotas.
Worse. We've driven out small fishing fleets, leaving our seas vulnerable to the monstrous mega ships whose bottom trawling scrapes away the existence of all life in its path. And the inequitable quote allocation formalised in 1999, has resulted in over 90% of the quota from mackerel,
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herring and blue fighting being. Held. By just 20 companies, most of
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By just 20 companies, most of them not even British. Half of English quotas held by Dutch, English quotas held by Dutch, Icelandic and Spanish interests. More than half of Northern Ireland quota is held by just one trawler company, and 85% of quota is held by Spanish companies. The system has Spanish companies. The system has been rigged against the UK's inshore fleet and its independent fishers. fleet and its independent fishers. All this, all this was done by UK companies selling their quota abroad.
But it's the awful consequence of the privatisation of consequence of the privatisation of a public good. Our fisheries and the a public good. Our fisheries and the UK taxpayer has received not a penny in benefit as a result of it. If the in benefit as a result of it. If the UK is to truly be a leader in the implementation of the BMJ, if we are implementation of the BMJ, if we are to demand of other nations that they kerb their rapacious plundering of the high seas, we must at the very the high seas, we must at the very least begin to stop the overexploitation of our stocks at overexploitation of our stocks at home, our ability to make our voice heard internationally will sound hollow if we continue to ignore the science and set what are politically led quota allocations at home.
I see fisheries often have unimaginably high levels of bycatch, and this is particularly true of tuna fisheries, because tuna often screw with other pelagic species such as dolphins, manta rays, billfish. Indeed, many tuna species inhabit the same surface mixed layer of the ocean that is inhabited by vulnerable species like silky sharks or turtles. It's estimated that 100 million sharks are caught every year, most as bycatch in high seas fisheries. It's no wonder, then, that the large open ocean sharks have declined by at least 70% in the last 50 years, almost entirely due to high seas fishing, where they are either targeted.
Or caught as. Bycatch beyond.
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jurisdiction. The letter that threatened the largest turtle in the world is largest turtle in the world is threatened with extinction because it is so often caught as bycatch by pressing fleets of fishing vessels pressing fleets of fishing vessels on the high seas. In the IUCN Red List of Endangered Species, List of Endangered Species, published just last week, only one of the 22 species of albatross is not threatened with extinction through being. Caught as bycatch on hooks on longline fishing fleets in hooks on longline fishing fleets in the open ocean, just as distance from land once provided protection from land once provided protection for many species in the preindustrial era, the same can be said of the deep seas.
Until said of the deep seas. Until recently, the deep ocean was out of reach for human activity. Unfortunately, this is no longer the case. Industrialised fishing fleets are now able to fish deeper and are now able to fish deeper and deeper, but many deep sea species are slow growing and orange roughy are slow growing and orange roughy only reaches sexual maturity between the ages of 20 and 30 years, much the ages of 20 and 30 years, much older than shallower water fish.
These factors make deep sea species uniquely vulnerable to overfishing,
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uniquely vulnerable to overfishing, and as many of the deepest waters. Are on. The high seas, we need to ensure that the BBA protects them and their habitat better. Deep sea fishing, especially on seamounts, poses an existential risk to many deep sea ecosystems, and bottom trawling, which is devastating in coastal and shallow seas, is arguably even more so on the high seas. Bottom trawlers tend to focus on seamounts, as these underwater mountains act as biodiversity hotspots and the open ocean.
I seek the Minister's assurance that in considering next steps after ratification, establishing protections around seamounts on the high seas will be one of the government's priorities. And I would ask for the same assurance in relation to the issue of deep seabed mining. I trust the government will continue to oppose any developments of this on the high seas. The bill before us is excellent. It will delight the now Professor Alex Rogers, who I suspect is not at his desk either in Oxford or at the National Oceanography Centre, where he is now the science director.
Most probably he's out somewhere in the Antarctic Ocean in a submersible exploring the deep ocean, as he has now been doing for more than 30 years. If he were to take a break from his mission to discover 100,000 new marine species in the deep ocean in this. Decade and send us a message, I suspect it would be to emphasise the importance of getting this bill enacted quickly. If we have not ratified the treaty at least 40.
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Days before the first come, the. UK will not have a seat at the
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UK will not have a seat at the table. We will merely be a spectator as others set the ambition or the lack of it, as they roll out the implementation of the treaty. So I'd like to congratulate the Minister on bringing the bill to the House for its Second Reading and trust. We are able to see the whole ratification able to see the whole ratification process completed in time for the UK to make strong proposals at Cop one
14:16
Charlotte Cane MP (Ely and East Cambridgeshire, Liberal Democrat)
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-
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to make strong proposals at Cop one next year. Charlotte Cane.
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Charlotte Cane. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. The Venerable Bede. First. Wrote of the Isle of Eels back in
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Wrote of the Isle of Eels back in the eighth century. He explained that the Isle of Ely is known as such because it was surrounded by
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such because it was surrounded by water with an. Abundance of eels. But these. Eels. Don't spend. Their whole life in Ely.
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Their whole life in Ely. Or indeed in. The UK. The biological story behind eels is a.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
is a. Quite remarkable one. They breed in the Sargasso Sea, as we've. Heard, so.
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Heard, so. Important to many other species as well. Drift across the. Ocean for.
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Ocean for. 2 or 3 years as. Tiny and fragile eels. They adapt to freshwater. And mature.
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In rivers, sometimes. Growing up to a metre long before swimming all the way back.
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To the Sargasso Sea. To reproduce once more before
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To reproduce once more before dying. These eels face many dangers in their life cycle, including. The impact of.
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The impact of. Climate change on ocean currents, pollution and poaching. European pollution and poaching. European eels are considered as a critically endangered species, so it is imperative we take action to protect imperative we take action to protect them. Now, at a local level, the creation of eel passes not, as it might.
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might. Sound, a passport. But ladders. Or passages have. Been a welcome. Action to allow.
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Action to allow. Them to get from. The sea into. again. But much more needs to be done to
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But much more needs to be done to protect them and other endangered species on a. Global scale. So it's really good that the.
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Government. Has proposed. This bill. Ely holds an annual
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This bill. Ely holds an annual eel festival, not only recognising our history but. Celebrating
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our history but. Celebrating festival. Celebrates our. Heritage, but it's always tinged
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Heritage, but it's always tinged with concern about the decline in the eel population. But also a determination to see eels return to our rivers in abundance. They're not grottos.
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As. They once. Were, owing to all the factors I mentioned. But the good news is that mentioned. But the good news is that in 2022, over 74,000 eels were recorded as making the 3000 mile journey from the Sargasso. Sea to
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Cambridge. Measures like banning bottom trawling in marine protected areas. Would be a good way. To protect endangered.
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Species like. Eels and. Others. As would provision of greater
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resources for international environmental cooperation. I hope the government will take. On board calls for a ban on
**** Possible New Speaker ****
On board calls for a ban on bottom trawling in marine protected areas. We can't. Possibly have the moral authority
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Possibly have the moral authority to call for such a ban on the global stage, when we haven't done it in
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stage, when we haven't done it in wildlife. Depends on our oceans.
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As indeed, frankly, do we as the human race. The speech from the Shadow Minister was shocking and depressing for the party, which once hugged a husky to now be questioning hugged a husky to now be questioning their support for our oceans is
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their support for our oceans is shameful. Madam Deputy Speaker, 25 years ago. Three centuries ago.
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Aristotle questioned where eels came from. But if we. Do. Not take urgent action to. Protect.
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Protect. Them and other marine wildlife, we won't. Be asking where they came from. We'll be asking where they've from. We'll be asking where they've all gone. I therefore welcome this bill and the international cooperation which it.
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cooperation which it. Is a part. Of, and please let us. Get it through the House as quickly as.
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Possible so we can sign. The treaty. And. Be there to make. Sure that it delivers what we all
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Sure that it delivers what we all hope it will deliver. OK. Dame Emily Thornberry.
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Thank you very much, Madam Deputy Speaker. I'm grateful to my Speaker. I'm grateful to my honourable friend. For her remarks and for the attention that the Fcdo and for the attention that the Fcdo has has paid to the importance of marine conservation. The Biodiversity Beyond National
Charlotte Cane MP (Ely and East Cambridgeshire, Liberal Democrat)
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to make strong proposals at Cop one next year. Charlotte Cane.
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Charlotte Cane. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. The Venerable Bede. First. Wrote of the Isle of Eels back in
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Wrote of the Isle of Eels back in the eighth century. He explained that the Isle of Ely is known as such because it was surrounded by
**** Possible New Speaker ****
such because it was surrounded by water with an. Abundance of eels. But these. Eels. Don't spend. Their whole life in Ely.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Their whole life in Ely. Or indeed in. The UK. The biological story behind eels is a.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
is a. Quite remarkable one. They breed in the Sargasso Sea, as we've. Heard, so.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Heard, so. Important to many other species as well. Drift across the. Ocean for.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Ocean for. 2 or 3 years as. Tiny and fragile eels. They adapt to freshwater. And mature.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
In rivers, sometimes. Growing up to a metre long before swimming all the way back.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
To the Sargasso Sea. To reproduce once more before
**** Possible New Speaker ****
To reproduce once more before dying. These eels face many dangers in their life cycle, including. The impact of.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
The impact of. Climate change on ocean currents, pollution and poaching. European pollution and poaching. European eels are considered as a critically endangered species, so it is imperative we take action to protect imperative we take action to protect them. Now, at a local level, the creation of eel passes not, as it might.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
might. Sound, a passport. But ladders. Or passages have. Been a welcome. Action to allow.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Action to allow. Them to get from. The sea into. again. But much more needs to be done to
**** Possible New Speaker ****
But much more needs to be done to protect them and other endangered species on a. Global scale. So it's really good that the.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Government. Has proposed. This bill. Ely holds an annual
**** Possible New Speaker ****
This bill. Ely holds an annual eel festival, not only recognising our history but. Celebrating
**** Possible New Speaker ****
our history but. Celebrating festival. Celebrates our. Heritage, but it's always tinged
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Heritage, but it's always tinged with concern about the decline in the eel population. But also a determination to see eels return to our rivers in abundance. They're not grottos.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
As. They once. Were, owing to all the factors I mentioned. But the good news is that mentioned. But the good news is that in 2022, over 74,000 eels were recorded as making the 3000 mile journey from the Sargasso. Sea to
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Cambridge. Measures like banning bottom trawling in marine protected areas. Would be a good way. To protect endangered.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Species like. Eels and. Others. As would provision of greater
**** Possible New Speaker ****
resources for international environmental cooperation. I hope the government will take. On board calls for a ban on
**** Possible New Speaker ****
On board calls for a ban on bottom trawling in marine protected areas. We can't. Possibly have the moral authority
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Possibly have the moral authority to call for such a ban on the global stage, when we haven't done it in
**** Possible New Speaker ****
stage, when we haven't done it in wildlife. Depends on our oceans.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
As indeed, frankly, do we as the human race. The speech from the Shadow Minister was shocking and depressing for the party, which once hugged a husky to now be questioning hugged a husky to now be questioning their support for our oceans is
**** Possible New Speaker ****
their support for our oceans is shameful. Madam Deputy Speaker, 25 years ago. Three centuries ago.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Aristotle questioned where eels came from. But if we. Do. Not take urgent action to. Protect.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Protect. Them and other marine wildlife, we won't. Be asking where they came from. We'll be asking where they've from. We'll be asking where they've all gone. I therefore welcome this bill and the international cooperation which it.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
cooperation which it. Is a part. Of, and please let us. Get it through the House as quickly as.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Possible so we can sign. The treaty. And. Be there to make. Sure that it delivers what we all
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Sure that it delivers what we all hope it will deliver. OK. Dame Emily Thornberry.
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Thank you very much, Madam Deputy Speaker. I'm grateful to my Speaker. I'm grateful to my honourable friend. For her remarks and for the attention that the Fcdo and for the attention that the Fcdo has has paid to the importance of marine conservation. The Biodiversity Beyond National
14:20
Rt Hon Emily Thornberry MP (Islington South and Finsbury, Labour)
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Rt Hon Emily Thornberry MP (Islington South and Finsbury, Labour)
Jurisdiction Treaty represents a transformation in the way that we protect nature in the high seas. I commend the government for being an early proponent of the agreement, and I am so pleased to see. In fact, if I'm honest, I'm thrilled to see that we're finally going to ratify it. I do feel this afternoon that I have been witnessing the chamber at its best to hear such passion and such well-informed expertise on both sides has been a real honour, and it reminds one what an honour we all have being members of this place.
Being able to sit in a room and
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listen to these sorts of contributions, it has been wonderful. Again.
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Again. Let me confess, I am one of those. I. I remember I came back from having seen sperm whales and I was still weeping, and I and I have was still weeping, and I and I have I, apologise to the person who organised the trip that that I seem to have just not been able to stop to have just not been able to stop weeping. And she said, don't worry dear. You see lots of people like you on these trips and I feel like I you on these trips and I feel like I have found my people in terms of the passion that have been expressed passion that have been expressed today for the high seas and for biodiversity, but the but what I want to contribute today is want to contribute today is something which is particularly focussed.
And please forgive me for this, but I do believe that the test this, but I do believe that the test of our commitment to this, to this treaty, can be tested by our how we treaty, can be tested by our how we treat our current responsibilities. And I join the opposition spokesperson in in using the Chagos Islands as a test. My apology for Islands as a test. My apology for not recognising the way in which the opposition have been talking about opposition have been talking about the biodiversity of the Chagos Islands.
I think perhaps I was only focussed on the considerable amount of time that they spent on the sovereignty of the Chagos Islands, and I have spent the time available looking up their references to biodiversity. And there have been three, and I apologise for saying that they hadn't. And the Minister and I have, for the Minister for the state, at the Foreign Office and for Overseas Territories, and I have had a number of exchanges in this House about the vital importance of safeguarding marine protected areas around the Chagos Islands, and I'm grateful for the assurances that he has given me and that the government is committed to continued protection of the unique and unparalleled environment of the Chagos Archipelago.
But the Fcdo s assurances, although welcomed, really don't go far enough. And before I explain why, I want to first explain why these waters matter so much, not least because of the role that they play in replenishing the high seas and the extraordinary obligation that the UK owes the world to ensure that they remain protected. They are, as has been said, 640,600 and 640,000km² of near pristine ocean, among the most pristine in the world. They are home to the largest living coral atoll, 58 islands.
They are the breeding site for more than a quarter of a million pairs of seabirds, as well as vital and unexplored deep sea ecosystems that my Honourable friend has talked about with such passion. The vast no take zone that the UK, established in 2010, provides a vital sanctuary for numerous endangered species. If this marine environment were damaged, it would do huge damage to the seas generally and to the species already on the brink of extinction. Species such as the endangered hawksbill turtle, which forages in the waters of the Chagos on and nests on its beaches, or the unique population of reef manta rays which use the protected waters as a refuge and would soon disappear if those waters became unprotected.
This is exactly the kind of marine life that the Beebe J seeks to protect through the establishment, among other measures, of marine protected areas on the high seas. Now, the vast marine protected area around the Chagos Islands gives a safe corridor and foraging ground for vital migratory species and apex predators like tuna, sharks, whales and without it we would see their numbers across the world crash and much more widely. And in a warming world in which coral is dying at a terrifying rate, the coral in the Chagos is relatively healthy and acts as a receding bank for other reefs in the Indian Ocean through lava dispersal, the reefs and marine life of the Chagos Archipelago help to replenish degraded reefs and depleted fish stocks.
From East Africa to Indonesia. The coral in the Chagos Archipelago has shown this extraordinary degree of resilience and an ability even to recover from bleaching events, and it's not known why this resilience, as well as the undisturbed nature of the Chagos Ocean, is a really important site for scientific study. It could give us a really important insight into what we can do next to save our coral reefs, and it could give us a proper insight into how healthy marine ecosystems function, and about the impact of climate change.
The UK has, for the last 15 years, protected these waters and taken seriously its duties as the steward of those ecosystems. Just as the BPA invites the entire international community to do as stewards of the high seas, as the UK now hands this over to Mauritius, we have an equally serious duty to ensure that they remain protected. Which means. Which brings me to the terms of the Chagos. Chagos deal. So the evidence to my committee of the Minister of State for Europe, North America and the Overseas Territory, he has, and I'm grateful to him for the evidence that he's given.
The Minister noted that the UK and the Mauritian governments are committed to promoting the conservation of the environment of the archipelago. Obviously, I welcome this and I pay tribute to the Government of Mauritius for its clear determination to protect nature. Nothing I am about to say is intended to cast any doubt on that commitment. The problem, Madam Deputy Speaker, is that Mauritius is a democracy, a vibrant democracy in which governments have historically had different attitudes to protecting the ocean. And so it is not good enough for the Minister just to point to the commitment of the current Mauritian government to marine protection.
We need to have a basis for lasting confidence and mechanisms to ensure that these ecosystems remain protected for future generations. My principal concern is that there is no funding mechanism in place to ensure Mauritius will properly resource marine protection in the Chagos Archipelago and incentivise them to do so. This stands in contrast to the treaty that we are discussing discovering, we are discussing this afternoon. Yes, I will, I hope she will give me the opportunity to say sorry.
And to the Shadow Minister for misunderstanding why he thought it was so important to mention the Chagos Islands, and I. I hope he will accept this apology. And when I intervened earlier. Thank you. I have to say, we are all behaving so well this afternoon. I so I what I wanted to say was, was there is no incentive, there is no funding mechanism in relation to the to the deal with the about the Chagos Archipelago. And yet the treaty that we're that we're talking about, we're having Second Reading about today does have that very funding mechanism.
And why does it? Because we know that's what is needed in order for it to work without a dedicated funding mechanism for Chagos Marine protection, in which a transfer of funds is contingent on the continuing protection of the marine environment, there is nothing to ensure that this protection will continue. The Mauritian government wants to allocate resources for doing so, but they do operate in a very resource constrained environment. It is therefore deeply regrettable that both parties did not reach an agreement on future arrangements for environmental protection across the Chagos Archipelago before signing the treaty, they should have allocated resources, dedicated funds to it or agreed a funding mechanism that would have been a proper basis for confidence.
In short, the Chagos agreement should have followed the lead of the Bpn J. I remain concerned that there is a lack of concrete action surrounding the future conservation of the Chagos Archipelagos unique marine environment and biodiversity. I appreciate the commitments that the Minister has given the House and to my committee, but now actions need to be taken. A drawing on the example presented by the BBC at BBJ. Madam Deputy Speaker, the ratification of the High Seas Treaty is testament to Britain's renewed global leadership on climate and nature.
That reputation risks being undermined by a failure to invest in the protection of the unique and extraordinary marine environment that is the Chagos Islands. OK, Steve Race.
Being able to sit in a room and
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listen to these sorts of contributions, it has been wonderful. Again.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Again. Let me confess, I am one of those. I. I remember I came back from having seen sperm whales and I was still weeping, and I and I have was still weeping, and I and I have I, apologise to the person who organised the trip that that I seem to have just not been able to stop to have just not been able to stop weeping. And she said, don't worry dear. You see lots of people like you on these trips and I feel like I you on these trips and I feel like I have found my people in terms of the passion that have been expressed passion that have been expressed today for the high seas and for biodiversity, but the but what I want to contribute today is want to contribute today is something which is particularly focussed.
And please forgive me for this, but I do believe that the test this, but I do believe that the test of our commitment to this, to this treaty, can be tested by our how we treaty, can be tested by our how we treat our current responsibilities. And I join the opposition spokesperson in in using the Chagos Islands as a test. My apology for Islands as a test. My apology for not recognising the way in which the opposition have been talking about opposition have been talking about the biodiversity of the Chagos Islands.
I think perhaps I was only focussed on the considerable amount of time that they spent on the sovereignty of the Chagos Islands, and I have spent the time available looking up their references to biodiversity. And there have been three, and I apologise for saying that they hadn't. And the Minister and I have, for the Minister for the state, at the Foreign Office and for Overseas Territories, and I have had a number of exchanges in this House about the vital importance of safeguarding marine protected areas around the Chagos Islands, and I'm grateful for the assurances that he has given me and that the government is committed to continued protection of the unique and unparalleled environment of the Chagos Archipelago.
But the Fcdo s assurances, although welcomed, really don't go far enough. And before I explain why, I want to first explain why these waters matter so much, not least because of the role that they play in replenishing the high seas and the extraordinary obligation that the UK owes the world to ensure that they remain protected. They are, as has been said, 640,600 and 640,000km² of near pristine ocean, among the most pristine in the world. They are home to the largest living coral atoll, 58 islands.
They are the breeding site for more than a quarter of a million pairs of seabirds, as well as vital and unexplored deep sea ecosystems that my Honourable friend has talked about with such passion. The vast no take zone that the UK, established in 2010, provides a vital sanctuary for numerous endangered species. If this marine environment were damaged, it would do huge damage to the seas generally and to the species already on the brink of extinction. Species such as the endangered hawksbill turtle, which forages in the waters of the Chagos on and nests on its beaches, or the unique population of reef manta rays which use the protected waters as a refuge and would soon disappear if those waters became unprotected.
This is exactly the kind of marine life that the Beebe J seeks to protect through the establishment, among other measures, of marine protected areas on the high seas. Now, the vast marine protected area around the Chagos Islands gives a safe corridor and foraging ground for vital migratory species and apex predators like tuna, sharks, whales and without it we would see their numbers across the world crash and much more widely. And in a warming world in which coral is dying at a terrifying rate, the coral in the Chagos is relatively healthy and acts as a receding bank for other reefs in the Indian Ocean through lava dispersal, the reefs and marine life of the Chagos Archipelago help to replenish degraded reefs and depleted fish stocks.
From East Africa to Indonesia. The coral in the Chagos Archipelago has shown this extraordinary degree of resilience and an ability even to recover from bleaching events, and it's not known why this resilience, as well as the undisturbed nature of the Chagos Ocean, is a really important site for scientific study. It could give us a really important insight into what we can do next to save our coral reefs, and it could give us a proper insight into how healthy marine ecosystems function, and about the impact of climate change.
The UK has, for the last 15 years, protected these waters and taken seriously its duties as the steward of those ecosystems. Just as the BPA invites the entire international community to do as stewards of the high seas, as the UK now hands this over to Mauritius, we have an equally serious duty to ensure that they remain protected. Which means. Which brings me to the terms of the Chagos. Chagos deal. So the evidence to my committee of the Minister of State for Europe, North America and the Overseas Territory, he has, and I'm grateful to him for the evidence that he's given.
The Minister noted that the UK and the Mauritian governments are committed to promoting the conservation of the environment of the archipelago. Obviously, I welcome this and I pay tribute to the Government of Mauritius for its clear determination to protect nature. Nothing I am about to say is intended to cast any doubt on that commitment. The problem, Madam Deputy Speaker, is that Mauritius is a democracy, a vibrant democracy in which governments have historically had different attitudes to protecting the ocean. And so it is not good enough for the Minister just to point to the commitment of the current Mauritian government to marine protection.
We need to have a basis for lasting confidence and mechanisms to ensure that these ecosystems remain protected for future generations. My principal concern is that there is no funding mechanism in place to ensure Mauritius will properly resource marine protection in the Chagos Archipelago and incentivise them to do so. This stands in contrast to the treaty that we are discussing discovering, we are discussing this afternoon. Yes, I will, I hope she will give me the opportunity to say sorry.
And to the Shadow Minister for misunderstanding why he thought it was so important to mention the Chagos Islands, and I. I hope he will accept this apology. And when I intervened earlier. Thank you. I have to say, we are all behaving so well this afternoon. I so I what I wanted to say was, was there is no incentive, there is no funding mechanism in relation to the to the deal with the about the Chagos Archipelago. And yet the treaty that we're that we're talking about, we're having Second Reading about today does have that very funding mechanism.
And why does it? Because we know that's what is needed in order for it to work without a dedicated funding mechanism for Chagos Marine protection, in which a transfer of funds is contingent on the continuing protection of the marine environment, there is nothing to ensure that this protection will continue. The Mauritian government wants to allocate resources for doing so, but they do operate in a very resource constrained environment. It is therefore deeply regrettable that both parties did not reach an agreement on future arrangements for environmental protection across the Chagos Archipelago before signing the treaty, they should have allocated resources, dedicated funds to it or agreed a funding mechanism that would have been a proper basis for confidence.
In short, the Chagos agreement should have followed the lead of the Bpn J. I remain concerned that there is a lack of concrete action surrounding the future conservation of the Chagos Archipelagos unique marine environment and biodiversity. I appreciate the commitments that the Minister has given the House and to my committee, but now actions need to be taken. A drawing on the example presented by the BBC at BBJ. Madam Deputy Speaker, the ratification of the High Seas Treaty is testament to Britain's renewed global leadership on climate and nature.
That reputation risks being undermined by a failure to invest in the protection of the unique and extraordinary marine environment that is the Chagos Islands. OK, Steve Race.
14:29
Steve Race MP (Exeter, Labour)
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Steve Race MP (Exeter, Labour)
Thank you, Madam Speaker. I want to welcome the governments and the Minister's leadership on this issue by bringing the bill to the House in order to enact the UN High Seas Treaty. And note also that I'm a member of the oceans Appg. I know that people in Exeter care very deeply about our. Natural environment, with the seas and oceans in particular. And so that's rightly so. The world's oceans are vitally important to the health of our planet and to our people that produce over half of the world's oxygen and absorb a quarter of all carbon dioxide emissions, helping to regulate our climate.
They support an immense diversity of life, providing food for billions of people and supporting enormous ecosystems which contain knowledge that we have only just begin to tap. After decades of industrial damage, this landmark legislation and the treaty will go some way to protecting two thirds of the world's ocean, and it represents a massive step forward by nations across the world to protect marine life and ecosystems beyond our natural national borders. By providing the legal framework necessary to implement the agreement domestically.
This bill includes provisions for marine protected areas, environmental impact assessments, and the sharing of benefits from the collection, use of marine genetic resources, and will help us to meet the target to effectively conserve and manage at least 30% of the ocean by 2030. I also welcome this bill as a core part of re-establishing the UK's role in providing global leadership on climate and nature, both at home and around the world. And just as the UK is a leader in marine and climate science, so is Exeter.
I was delighted this week to host the Met Office in Parliament to showcase the range and depth of their expertise. The Met Office is not just a specialist in our weather, they're based in Exeter, they're also specialised in specialists in space, weather in and our oceans and the connection to climate change and forecasting to the work in ocean biogeochemistry, studying how carbon and other gases are absorbed, transported and exchanged by the oceans, the mechanisms involved and the impacts changes have is pioneering.
They research into the risks of rapid loss of sea ice and studying the rise of sea levels and the impacts on communities, the environment and the economy. The Met Office also provides a vital service in generating risk assessments and rapid changes to the meridional overturning circulation, which, Madam Deputy Speaker, I'm told, plays an important role in regional
**** Possible New Speaker ****
climates. I'm a literature graduate, not a science cruncher. So thank you. They're also part of the National
**** Possible New Speaker ****
They're also part of the National Partnership for Ocean Prediction, bringing together world class expertise and research, as well as developing beneficial marine developing beneficial marine products and services. In addition, the University of Exeter has a wide ranging research community working ranging research community working on projects related to our oceans. These come under together under the Exeter Marine Research Network, and Exeter Marine Research Network, and that ocean research runs from pollution and conservation to governance and human health. In June governance and human health.
In June this year, Universities professor Callum Roberts was the lead author of a report in nature supporting the of a report in nature supporting the UN High Seas Treaty. His paper highlighted that the high seas are Earth's largest and most secure carbon sink. Protecting them is carbon sink. Protecting them is critical to preserving the biological and nutrient cycles that draw down and keep atmospheric CO2 draw down and keep atmospheric CO2 in check. They welcome the UN High Seas Treaty, saying it offers a pathway to greater protection, but they are concerned about the length of time frame for implementation.
The report authors also argued that a full and permanent ban on extractive use of the oceans is both feasible and necessary, modelled on feasible and necessary, modelled on the successful precedents set for Antarctica in the 1950s, and I wonder whether the minister would comment on what more can be done and comment on what more can be done and beyond this treaty, as we bring it in to protect our oceans above and beyond this legislation. Finally, Madam Deputy Speaker, I want to pay tribute to my constituents, Mary Atwell, Debbie Thomas, Sue down and Lizzie Waller of Exeter's Greenpeace group, who have been doggedly campaigning for the UK's ratification of the treaty.
And I thank them for all the work and for keeping this issue at the top of the political agenda and hope they'll be celebrating this evening if this bill passes is Second Reading in this place. They have asked me to question how the treaty will be enforced and welcome comments from the Minister on that. Two I'd also agree with my friend, my hon. Friend from Chesterfield that we do want this to be cross-party Crosshouse agreement on this and it. While it's also disappointing that the conservatives aren't here, it is disappointing that the Green Party MPs, other than one small intervention at the beginning and not here to participate substantially in in this debate.
Madam speaker, I commend and extraordinarily thrilled and pleased to support this Bill. And I know that ratification of this agreement as soon as possible supports the UK's broader climate and nature agenda and will mean that we can take our seat at the top table at the first Cop. This will ensure that we remain at the forefront of global efforts to tackle biodiversity loss and climate change through multilateral cooperation, and this will strengthen the role of international law so important in these times and multilateral
**** Possible New Speaker ****
institutions as the foundation for ocean governance. Thank you, Madam Speaker. Thank you. Martin Rhodes.
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Thank you. Martin Rhodes. Madam Deputy Speaker, I welcome this bill for what it seeks to put into law.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
But also. For what. It. Signals about the approach of the government. And hopefully this House to
**** Possible New Speaker ****
national and international. Obligations and interests. This Bill. Is a testament to the continued
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Is a testament to the continued survival and delivery of multilateralism in global affairs. In an age of.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
In an age of. Continued and heightened global strife, conflict and antagonism. This bill is proof that there still remains hope for global cooperation, that joint endeavours with shared that joint endeavours with shared purpose can deliver common goods. Institutions like the United Nations Institutions like the United Nations can still be practical and effective forums to facilitate states coming
**** Possible New Speaker ****
together to work out collective solutions to collective problems. There are those who.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Seek to withdraw from international agreements, who see multilateral institutions and. Processes as threats. We must pursue such an.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
We must pursue such an. Approach because it. Ultimately does not. Serve. Our. National and global interests.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
National and global interests. Such an approach and withdrawal of isolation. Will not. Further our interests effectively.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
In this case, United Nations. Biodiversity Beyond National jurisdiction agreement.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
That this bill will bring into the framework of UK. Law will be one of the most important. Strides. Forward for.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Strides. Forward for. Biodiversity and the marine environment. For the. First time. We as.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
We as. The United Kingdom, will have a legal framework to help us to. Protect and large expanses of. The Protect and large expanses of. The seas that are beyond our national
**** Possible New Speaker ****
seas that are beyond our national waters. The establishment of such protections will help ensure. That regions of the high seas. Are.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Safeguarded from harmful, extractive and destructive practices. These protections will help.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
These protections will help. Restore biodiversity. To these regions and help. Maintain the ocean's capacity.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Maintain the ocean's capacity. produced. By human. Activity. Thus help to.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Mitigate the impacts of. Global warming. Already, the. Oceans have been mentioned, as I already mentioned, absorbs. About.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
About. 30% of manmade CO2. This treaty will help ensure that the oceans.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
the oceans. Are fit to continue. This. The ratification. Of the treaty. Was not.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Was not. Be the be all and end all. For. Protecting the biodiversity of the world's oceans.
They support an immense diversity of life, providing food for billions of people and supporting enormous ecosystems which contain knowledge that we have only just begin to tap. After decades of industrial damage, this landmark legislation and the treaty will go some way to protecting two thirds of the world's ocean, and it represents a massive step forward by nations across the world to protect marine life and ecosystems beyond our natural national borders. By providing the legal framework necessary to implement the agreement domestically.
This bill includes provisions for marine protected areas, environmental impact assessments, and the sharing of benefits from the collection, use of marine genetic resources, and will help us to meet the target to effectively conserve and manage at least 30% of the ocean by 2030. I also welcome this bill as a core part of re-establishing the UK's role in providing global leadership on climate and nature, both at home and around the world. And just as the UK is a leader in marine and climate science, so is Exeter.
I was delighted this week to host the Met Office in Parliament to showcase the range and depth of their expertise. The Met Office is not just a specialist in our weather, they're based in Exeter, they're also specialised in specialists in space, weather in and our oceans and the connection to climate change and forecasting to the work in ocean biogeochemistry, studying how carbon and other gases are absorbed, transported and exchanged by the oceans, the mechanisms involved and the impacts changes have is pioneering.
They research into the risks of rapid loss of sea ice and studying the rise of sea levels and the impacts on communities, the environment and the economy. The Met Office also provides a vital service in generating risk assessments and rapid changes to the meridional overturning circulation, which, Madam Deputy Speaker, I'm told, plays an important role in regional
**** Possible New Speaker ****
climates. I'm a literature graduate, not a science cruncher. So thank you. They're also part of the National
**** Possible New Speaker ****
They're also part of the National Partnership for Ocean Prediction, bringing together world class expertise and research, as well as developing beneficial marine developing beneficial marine products and services. In addition, the University of Exeter has a wide ranging research community working ranging research community working on projects related to our oceans. These come under together under the Exeter Marine Research Network, and Exeter Marine Research Network, and that ocean research runs from pollution and conservation to governance and human health. In June governance and human health.
In June this year, Universities professor Callum Roberts was the lead author of a report in nature supporting the of a report in nature supporting the UN High Seas Treaty. His paper highlighted that the high seas are Earth's largest and most secure carbon sink. Protecting them is carbon sink. Protecting them is critical to preserving the biological and nutrient cycles that draw down and keep atmospheric CO2 draw down and keep atmospheric CO2 in check. They welcome the UN High Seas Treaty, saying it offers a pathway to greater protection, but they are concerned about the length of time frame for implementation.
The report authors also argued that a full and permanent ban on extractive use of the oceans is both feasible and necessary, modelled on feasible and necessary, modelled on the successful precedents set for Antarctica in the 1950s, and I wonder whether the minister would comment on what more can be done and comment on what more can be done and beyond this treaty, as we bring it in to protect our oceans above and beyond this legislation. Finally, Madam Deputy Speaker, I want to pay tribute to my constituents, Mary Atwell, Debbie Thomas, Sue down and Lizzie Waller of Exeter's Greenpeace group, who have been doggedly campaigning for the UK's ratification of the treaty.
And I thank them for all the work and for keeping this issue at the top of the political agenda and hope they'll be celebrating this evening if this bill passes is Second Reading in this place. They have asked me to question how the treaty will be enforced and welcome comments from the Minister on that. Two I'd also agree with my friend, my hon. Friend from Chesterfield that we do want this to be cross-party Crosshouse agreement on this and it. While it's also disappointing that the conservatives aren't here, it is disappointing that the Green Party MPs, other than one small intervention at the beginning and not here to participate substantially in in this debate.
Madam speaker, I commend and extraordinarily thrilled and pleased to support this Bill. And I know that ratification of this agreement as soon as possible supports the UK's broader climate and nature agenda and will mean that we can take our seat at the top table at the first Cop. This will ensure that we remain at the forefront of global efforts to tackle biodiversity loss and climate change through multilateral cooperation, and this will strengthen the role of international law so important in these times and multilateral
**** Possible New Speaker ****
institutions as the foundation for ocean governance. Thank you, Madam Speaker. Thank you. Martin Rhodes.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Thank you. Martin Rhodes. Madam Deputy Speaker, I welcome this bill for what it seeks to put into law.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
But also. For what. It. Signals about the approach of the government. And hopefully this House to
**** Possible New Speaker ****
national and international. Obligations and interests. This Bill. Is a testament to the continued
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Is a testament to the continued survival and delivery of multilateralism in global affairs. In an age of.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
In an age of. Continued and heightened global strife, conflict and antagonism. This bill is proof that there still remains hope for global cooperation, that joint endeavours with shared that joint endeavours with shared purpose can deliver common goods. Institutions like the United Nations Institutions like the United Nations can still be practical and effective forums to facilitate states coming
**** Possible New Speaker ****
together to work out collective solutions to collective problems. There are those who.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Seek to withdraw from international agreements, who see multilateral institutions and. Processes as threats. We must pursue such an.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
We must pursue such an. Approach because it. Ultimately does not. Serve. Our. National and global interests.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
National and global interests. Such an approach and withdrawal of isolation. Will not. Further our interests effectively.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
In this case, United Nations. Biodiversity Beyond National jurisdiction agreement.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
That this bill will bring into the framework of UK. Law will be one of the most important. Strides. Forward for.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Strides. Forward for. Biodiversity and the marine environment. For the. First time. We as.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
We as. The United Kingdom, will have a legal framework to help us to. Protect and large expanses of. The Protect and large expanses of. The seas that are beyond our national
**** Possible New Speaker ****
seas that are beyond our national waters. The establishment of such protections will help ensure. That regions of the high seas. Are.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Safeguarded from harmful, extractive and destructive practices. These protections will help.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
These protections will help. Restore biodiversity. To these regions and help. Maintain the ocean's capacity.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Maintain the ocean's capacity. produced. By human. Activity. Thus help to.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Mitigate the impacts of. Global warming. Already, the. Oceans have been mentioned, as I already mentioned, absorbs. About.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
About. 30% of manmade CO2. This treaty will help ensure that the oceans.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
the oceans. Are fit to continue. This. The ratification. Of the treaty. Was not.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Was not. Be the be all and end all. For. Protecting the biodiversity of the world's oceans.
14:37
Martin Rhodes MP (Glasgow North, Labour)
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Martin Rhodes MP (Glasgow North, Labour)
It must be a means to which the continue.
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Of a shared marine environment. One means of doing this. Will be through the treaty.
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Will be through the treaty. Will be the first conference of the parties on Ocean Cop one. This will be the first.
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Forum for the treaty signatories to discuss and action its implementation. Such as agreeing.
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That proposals for the first generation. Of high seas sanctuaries. This treaty. Is welcome. This bill is.
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This bill is. Welcome. But implementation is necessary to deliver what.
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We need. As the Minister said. In her opening comments.
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In her opening comments. This cop will take place within a year of the 17th of. January. 2026.
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2026. Which is when the treaty. Comes into force. And as has. Already been. Said, if the. UK has failed to ratify. At least 40.
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At least 40. Days before that date. We will not. Have a seat at that first cop. That.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
That. Is why, Madam Deputy Speaker, I will urge the House to pass this. Legislation at pace. Already there are reports of the first oceans. A cop could be as soon as August. The government has rightly spoken at length about the importance of the
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length about the importance of the UK bringing its soft power to. Bear. And with this being the first of its kind, it is essential.
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its kind, it is essential. That we bring UK expertise. And influence to this event. While the treaty is in its infancy, we have seen the importance of conferences of the parties and as a means of promoting collective action on climate change and nature. We cannot miss this chance to be part of the first ocean Cop to the same for our world's oceans. Multilateral agreements implemented by collective action is the way forward on this issue. I am therefore more than
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content to enthusiastically support this bill today. Josh Fenton-Glynn.
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Josh Fenton-Glynn. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. Two thirds of our planet oceans are Two thirds of our planet oceans are oceans which sustain life on Earth cannot be led left and any longer. cannot be led left and any longer. After years of international negotiation, the world finally agreed to the High Seas Treaty. And agreed to the High Seas Treaty. And with this bill, we will turn that treaty into action and show that Britain is serious about delivering Britain is serious about delivering on its promises.
There is no response to the climate crisis,
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Of a shared marine environment. One means of doing this. Will be through the treaty.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Will be through the treaty. Will be the first conference of the parties on Ocean Cop one. This will be the first.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Forum for the treaty signatories to discuss and action its implementation. Such as agreeing.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
That proposals for the first generation. Of high seas sanctuaries. This treaty. Is welcome. This bill is.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
This bill is. Welcome. But implementation is necessary to deliver what.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
We need. As the Minister said. In her opening comments.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
In her opening comments. This cop will take place within a year of the 17th of. January. 2026.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
2026. Which is when the treaty. Comes into force. And as has. Already been. Said, if the. UK has failed to ratify. At least 40.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
At least 40. Days before that date. We will not. Have a seat at that first cop. That.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
That. Is why, Madam Deputy Speaker, I will urge the House to pass this. Legislation at pace. Already there are reports of the first oceans. A cop could be as soon as August. The government has rightly spoken at length about the importance of the
**** Possible New Speaker ****
length about the importance of the UK bringing its soft power to. Bear. And with this being the first of its kind, it is essential.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
its kind, it is essential. That we bring UK expertise. And influence to this event. While the treaty is in its infancy, we have seen the importance of conferences of the parties and as a means of promoting collective action on climate change and nature. We cannot miss this chance to be part of the first ocean Cop to the same for our world's oceans. Multilateral agreements implemented by collective action is the way forward on this issue. I am therefore more than
**** Possible New Speaker ****
content to enthusiastically support this bill today. Josh Fenton-Glynn.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Josh Fenton-Glynn. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. Two thirds of our planet oceans are Two thirds of our planet oceans are oceans which sustain life on Earth cannot be led left and any longer. cannot be led left and any longer. After years of international negotiation, the world finally agreed to the High Seas Treaty. And agreed to the High Seas Treaty. And with this bill, we will turn that treaty into action and show that Britain is serious about delivering Britain is serious about delivering on its promises.
There is no response to the climate crisis,
14:39
Josh Fenton-Glynn MP (Calder Valley, Labour)
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Josh Fenton-Glynn MP (Calder Valley, Labour)
response to the climate crisis, which does not also respond to the nature crisis. And that is why it's important to protect biodiversity in
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beyond. The seas.
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The seas. Two thirds of the world ocean world's oceans lie beyond national. Borders.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
And until now they've had almost no real protection. This bill gives us power to protect international us power to protect international waters by establishing. But by establishing marine protected areas, establishing marine protected areas, by demanding proper environmental assessments before deep sea mining assessments before deep sea mining or destructive fishing can go ahead. And by making sure that the benefits of marine science are fed fairly of marine science are fed fairly shared. Sorry. This bill underpins the global goal of protecting 30% of the global goal of protecting 30% of the ocean by 2030, a goal that Labour put in its manifesto and one Labour put in its manifesto and one that we should be proud to be delivering on.
The high seas, absorb carbon, regulate weather and produce carbon, regulate weather and produce half the oxygen we breathe. If we do not get biodiversity right, we will not get climate change right either. Now we've all heard the tedious lines often repeated on the benches lines often repeated on the benches opposite, where no one is currently sat, that we can't act because other sat, that we can't act because other countries aren't acting. But to lead in addressing climate change, we have to do precisely that.
Lead, take action, do something meaningful, and lead other countries in making a difference. Now you may wonder why, from the most landlocked constituency of Calder Valley am speaking on this, but in Calder Valley we know the cost of climate change. Floods devastate our towns. We also know that protecting nature as our first line of defence, whether it's restoring our moorland at home, insisting on biodiversity, net gain in our development or safeguarding oceans abroad, the principle is the same.
So I commend the government for introducing this bill. It's a vital step in turning the international commitments into real action. The next challenge is to make sure that it not only passes, but it's properly enforced. As many colleagues have said today and resource, and I look forward to hearing more detail on that from the minister's. Let's see this the first
**** Possible New Speaker ****
beyond. The seas.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
The seas. Two thirds of the world ocean world's oceans lie beyond national. Borders.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
And until now they've had almost no real protection. This bill gives us power to protect international us power to protect international waters by establishing. But by establishing marine protected areas, establishing marine protected areas, by demanding proper environmental assessments before deep sea mining assessments before deep sea mining or destructive fishing can go ahead. And by making sure that the benefits of marine science are fed fairly of marine science are fed fairly shared. Sorry. This bill underpins the global goal of protecting 30% of the global goal of protecting 30% of the ocean by 2030, a goal that Labour put in its manifesto and one Labour put in its manifesto and one that we should be proud to be delivering on.
The high seas, absorb carbon, regulate weather and produce carbon, regulate weather and produce half the oxygen we breathe. If we do not get biodiversity right, we will not get climate change right either. Now we've all heard the tedious lines often repeated on the benches lines often repeated on the benches opposite, where no one is currently sat, that we can't act because other sat, that we can't act because other countries aren't acting. But to lead in addressing climate change, we have to do precisely that.
Lead, take action, do something meaningful, and lead other countries in making a difference. Now you may wonder why, from the most landlocked constituency of Calder Valley am speaking on this, but in Calder Valley we know the cost of climate change. Floods devastate our towns. We also know that protecting nature as our first line of defence, whether it's restoring our moorland at home, insisting on biodiversity, net gain in our development or safeguarding oceans abroad, the principle is the same.
So I commend the government for introducing this bill. It's a vital step in turning the international commitments into real action. The next challenge is to make sure that it not only passes, but it's properly enforced. As many colleagues have said today and resource, and I look forward to hearing more detail on that from the minister's. Let's see this the first
14:41
Chris Hinchliff MP (North East Hertfordshire, Independent)
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Chris Hinchliff MP (North East Hertfordshire, Independent)
day in Britain's leadership on our seas. Thank you. Chris Hinchliff seas. Thank you. Chris Hinchliff Deputy Speaker on land and sea. Our natural environment has suffered a soul. Crushing collapse over many decades, putting the future of iconic species and entire ecosystems iconic species and entire ecosystems at risk, as was so eloquently described by my hon. Friend for Brent West in what was a tour de Brent West in what was a tour de force of a speech, this government was elected on a clear promise to was elected on a clear promise to end that catastrophic decline, the long term consequence, if we do not reverse this trend, will be profound.
Our food security depends on healthy ecosystems. The bedrock on healthy ecosystems. The bedrock of our economy is our natural capital, and the public are voters. Cherish our seas, rivers, coastlines, ancient woodlands and national parks. They will not be national parks. They will not be forgiving of a political system that fails to protect and restore our shared natural inheritance. This shared natural inheritance. This bill is a particularly vital step towards the renewed protection of towards the renewed protection of our natural environment.
It recognises that biodiversity does not obey national borders or jurisdiction, so neither can our duty to safeguard it. As obvious as that truth may seem to the public, let alone conservationists, successive governments have failed to give the high seas the attention it needs. This bill begins to put that right by at last creating a legal framework for the UK to ratify the UN BBA agreement and meet our international obligations in full. As has been noted, just 1% of the high seas have full protection and there is still much research to be done on deep sea ecosystems.
But
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they are increasingly recognised as a key global reservoir of biodiversity. So the. Crucial task.
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Crucial task. Is to move this legislation forward quickly and end the crisis forward quickly and end the crisis engulfing our oceans. Industrial fishing fishing practices such as fishing fishing practices such as bottom trawling, the under seas equivalent of ploughing a bulldozer through a wildflower meadow, are through a wildflower meadow, are tearing apart fragile seabed habitats while trawl nets indiscriminately catch and discard countless non-target, endangered species. Once these species are species. Once these species are gone, they're gone forever, and their entire intricate web of connections goes with them, connections goes with them, unravelling irreplaceable ecosystems with profound knock on effects that with profound knock on effects that we can neither predict nor prevent.
And as has been mentioned, if we fail to pass this bill urgently, the UK will not have a seat at the table for the treaty's first cop. That for the treaty's first cop. That would not only represent a dereliction of our international obligations, we have as greater obligations, we have as greater responsibility as any nation to protect global biodiversity, but would also silence our voice in would also silence our voice in safeguarding our own national interests, such as the protection of the UK's 8 million seabirds, over half of which are already in decline.
Species such as the albatross and petrel spend more than 80% of their lives foraging on the high seas. We cannot protect them with action on our own coastlines alone. Yet Britain, stripped of her seabirds, would hardly be Britain at all. Other countries will have their own priorities and national interests to pursue, so our government must be at the table playing its part in securing the long term future of the many species which play such an important part in our culture and our identity.
Madam Deputy Speaker, I welcome this bill and the opportunity it creates to discuss nature and biodiversity in this place, a topic of serious debate right now for the public and for the government. And I will close by saying again that decisions driven by an ideology that prioritises profit over people and the environment didn't just undermine our economy, they also wrecked our natural world and our social cohesion. National renewal must mean economic revival, but also once more cherishing those things that make life beautiful.
And that means protecting nature. I thank
**** Possible New Speaker ****
ministers today for doing just that, and. Josh Newbury.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Josh Newbury. Speaker Cannock Chase may be one of the most landlocked constituencies in the country, but that has not stopped my constituents
Our food security depends on healthy ecosystems. The bedrock on healthy ecosystems. The bedrock of our economy is our natural capital, and the public are voters. Cherish our seas, rivers, coastlines, ancient woodlands and national parks. They will not be national parks. They will not be forgiving of a political system that fails to protect and restore our shared natural inheritance. This shared natural inheritance. This bill is a particularly vital step towards the renewed protection of towards the renewed protection of our natural environment.
It recognises that biodiversity does not obey national borders or jurisdiction, so neither can our duty to safeguard it. As obvious as that truth may seem to the public, let alone conservationists, successive governments have failed to give the high seas the attention it needs. This bill begins to put that right by at last creating a legal framework for the UK to ratify the UN BBA agreement and meet our international obligations in full. As has been noted, just 1% of the high seas have full protection and there is still much research to be done on deep sea ecosystems.
But
**** Possible New Speaker ****
they are increasingly recognised as a key global reservoir of biodiversity. So the. Crucial task.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Crucial task. Is to move this legislation forward quickly and end the crisis forward quickly and end the crisis engulfing our oceans. Industrial fishing fishing practices such as fishing fishing practices such as bottom trawling, the under seas equivalent of ploughing a bulldozer through a wildflower meadow, are through a wildflower meadow, are tearing apart fragile seabed habitats while trawl nets indiscriminately catch and discard countless non-target, endangered species. Once these species are species. Once these species are gone, they're gone forever, and their entire intricate web of connections goes with them, connections goes with them, unravelling irreplaceable ecosystems with profound knock on effects that with profound knock on effects that we can neither predict nor prevent.
And as has been mentioned, if we fail to pass this bill urgently, the UK will not have a seat at the table for the treaty's first cop. That for the treaty's first cop. That would not only represent a dereliction of our international obligations, we have as greater obligations, we have as greater responsibility as any nation to protect global biodiversity, but would also silence our voice in would also silence our voice in safeguarding our own national interests, such as the protection of the UK's 8 million seabirds, over half of which are already in decline.
Species such as the albatross and petrel spend more than 80% of their lives foraging on the high seas. We cannot protect them with action on our own coastlines alone. Yet Britain, stripped of her seabirds, would hardly be Britain at all. Other countries will have their own priorities and national interests to pursue, so our government must be at the table playing its part in securing the long term future of the many species which play such an important part in our culture and our identity.
Madam Deputy Speaker, I welcome this bill and the opportunity it creates to discuss nature and biodiversity in this place, a topic of serious debate right now for the public and for the government. And I will close by saying again that decisions driven by an ideology that prioritises profit over people and the environment didn't just undermine our economy, they also wrecked our natural world and our social cohesion. National renewal must mean economic revival, but also once more cherishing those things that make life beautiful.
And that means protecting nature. I thank
**** Possible New Speaker ****
ministers today for doing just that, and. Josh Newbury.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Josh Newbury. Speaker Cannock Chase may be one of the most landlocked constituencies in the country, but that has not stopped my constituents
14:46
Josh Newbury MP (Cannock Chase, Labour)
-
-
Josh Newbury MP (Cannock Chase, Labour)
that has not stopped my constituents for writing to me in support of this bill, and rightly so. Now, if anyone does come across. A marine genetic
**** Possible New Speaker ****
resource in Staffordshire, I'd be concerned. But the. Point is.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Point is. This what happens in the world's oceans matters just as much to the people of my constituency as it does
**** Possible New Speaker ****
people of my constituency as it does to those living on the coast. As the wise Franklin D Roosevelt. Once. Said. The nation.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
That destroys its soil destroys itself. Well, I'd like to extend that to say that the world that
**** Possible New Speaker ****
that to say that the world that destroys its oceans destroys itself. The UK. Has. Long positioned itself as. A global. Leader on marine protection, and
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Leader on marine protection, and with the BBA agreement now about to enter force on the 17th of January, we must not give up our status on
**** Possible New Speaker ****
we must not give up our status on marine conservation. This is why I speak in support of this bill, legislation that gives the government the ability to ratify. This.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
This. Vital United. Nations agreement and take part in. The. World's first Ocean Cop. Next
**** Possible New Speaker ****
World's first Ocean Cop. Next year. As the new Chair. Of the. All-Party parliamentary Group on Food Security. I also want to Food Security. I also want to emphasise how vital this bill is in protecting the long term health of our global food systems the high
**** Possible New Speaker ****
seas, those vast areas of ocean jurisdiction. Are essential. To. Our food security.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Our food security. They are home to rich marine and ecosystems, and globally, over 3 billion people rely on fish for at
**** Possible New Speaker ****
billion people rely on fish for at least 20% of their animal protein intake. And in many coastal and island nations, of course, that. Figure is much higher.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Yet the vast majority of these waters have long been unregulated, vulnerable to a multitude of threats including overfishing, unrestricted oil drilling, pollution and deep sea mining that directly.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
mining that directly. Threatens not. Just ocean health but also global food security. And I would like to food security. And I would like to echo the comments made by my hon. Friend the member for Brent West that to ensure this agreement has real impact, the government must
**** Possible New Speaker ****
real impact, the government must rapidly push for new marine. Protected areas. In international waters. This bill will enable the UK to play an active role in addressing all these threats. It extends marine licensing requirements to British activities requirements to British activities beyond our waters and mandates environment environmental outcome reports for potentially harmful
**** Possible New Speaker ****
reports for potentially harmful activity. It also ensures greater transparency in the collection and use of. Marine genetic.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Marine genetic. Resources, the biological material for marine organisms that holds immense promise for medicine, holds immense promise for medicine, biotechnology and food innovation. It's often said that the world's rainforests hold countless
**** Possible New Speaker ****
rainforests hold countless discoveries to come that could cure many illnesses and enable advancements that enrich our human existence, as well. As, I certainly.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
As, I certainly. Hope, our stewardship of the natural world. However, although they're often overlooked. The same is very much true of our oceans. These scientific and ecological discoveries. Must benefit all
**** Possible New Speaker ****
nations so that their benefits are not simply the preserve of. The. Already wealthy. So I. Very much welcome.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Very much welcome. The emphasis on open access repositories and databases that is so. Prominent in. The BBA agreement.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
The BBA agreement. safeguards. Like the polluter. Pays principle. And the precautionary principle.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
And the precautionary principle. And I hope this will pave the way for international action that will finally turn the tide upon absolutely intended on the reckless, absolutely intended on the reckless, destructive practices that nations across the world have perpetrated. the.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
the. Opportunity to speak on the high seas go by. Without. Mentioning the Global Plastics
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Mentioning the Global Plastics Treaty, which I hope we could find an international agreement on soon. I pay strong tribute to the Minister and the. British delegation.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
British delegation. To the Geneva talks. From her recent appearance, the environment, Food and Rural Affairs Committee, we Food and Rural Affairs Committee, we know that she regrets very deeply the collapse of those talks without an agreement, and I know that she's already redoubling efforts to find a
**** Possible New Speaker ****
already redoubling efforts to find a way forward so that. We can. Start to see environmental catastrophe, such as the Great. Pacific Garbage.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Patch halted. And reversed. On that note. I urge the government to do. Whatever it can.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Whatever it can. Alongside fellow members of the High Ambition Coalition. advance. International action on this
**** Possible New Speaker ****
urgent issue. The government is. Committed, as. We've heard, to protecting 30% of the ocean by 2030. This bill makes.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Good on that commitment on an. International level, not just as an environmental ambition, but as a an environmental ambition, but as a foundation for international cooperation, sustainable development and global food resilience. I commend the government for.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
commend the government for. Its leadership in bringing. This legislation forward, particularly as my hon. Friend the member for Chesterfield said in a
**** Possible New Speaker ****
member for Chesterfield said in a very packed legislative programme. As. We seek to get. Our. Country back on its feet. This demonstrates this
**** Possible New Speaker ****
This demonstrates this government's commitment to and prioritising of the health and sustainability of our oceans beyond
**** Possible New Speaker ****
national jurisdiction, and I. Urge colleagues across. The House to support it. Whether you live by the sea or in Cannock
**** Possible New Speaker ****
you live by the sea or in Cannock Chase in the heart of England, a secure. And sustainable future for us all.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
all. The oceans cannot wait and nor should the United Kingdom. Thank you. John Whitby.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
John Whitby. Yeah. You might have. Speaker. Our oceans are teeming. With complex.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Life, but today they are also in a state of crisis. Climate change, pollution,
**** Possible New Speaker ****
plastics. Are all placing. Our. Oceans under. Strain like never before. Our oceans are. Paying the price, with over a
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Paying the price, with over a third of UK. Fish stocks. Currently overfished, and more than a third of marine. Mammals at risk.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
resource in Staffordshire, I'd be concerned. But the. Point is.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Point is. This what happens in the world's oceans matters just as much to the people of my constituency as it does
**** Possible New Speaker ****
people of my constituency as it does to those living on the coast. As the wise Franklin D Roosevelt. Once. Said. The nation.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
That destroys its soil destroys itself. Well, I'd like to extend that to say that the world that
**** Possible New Speaker ****
that to say that the world that destroys its oceans destroys itself. The UK. Has. Long positioned itself as. A global. Leader on marine protection, and
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Leader on marine protection, and with the BBA agreement now about to enter force on the 17th of January, we must not give up our status on
**** Possible New Speaker ****
we must not give up our status on marine conservation. This is why I speak in support of this bill, legislation that gives the government the ability to ratify. This.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
This. Vital United. Nations agreement and take part in. The. World's first Ocean Cop. Next
**** Possible New Speaker ****
World's first Ocean Cop. Next year. As the new Chair. Of the. All-Party parliamentary Group on Food Security. I also want to Food Security. I also want to emphasise how vital this bill is in protecting the long term health of our global food systems the high
**** Possible New Speaker ****
seas, those vast areas of ocean jurisdiction. Are essential. To. Our food security.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Our food security. They are home to rich marine and ecosystems, and globally, over 3 billion people rely on fish for at
**** Possible New Speaker ****
billion people rely on fish for at least 20% of their animal protein intake. And in many coastal and island nations, of course, that. Figure is much higher.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Yet the vast majority of these waters have long been unregulated, vulnerable to a multitude of threats including overfishing, unrestricted oil drilling, pollution and deep sea mining that directly.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
mining that directly. Threatens not. Just ocean health but also global food security. And I would like to food security. And I would like to echo the comments made by my hon. Friend the member for Brent West that to ensure this agreement has real impact, the government must
**** Possible New Speaker ****
real impact, the government must rapidly push for new marine. Protected areas. In international waters. This bill will enable the UK to play an active role in addressing all these threats. It extends marine licensing requirements to British activities requirements to British activities beyond our waters and mandates environment environmental outcome reports for potentially harmful
**** Possible New Speaker ****
reports for potentially harmful activity. It also ensures greater transparency in the collection and use of. Marine genetic.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Marine genetic. Resources, the biological material for marine organisms that holds immense promise for medicine, holds immense promise for medicine, biotechnology and food innovation. It's often said that the world's rainforests hold countless
**** Possible New Speaker ****
rainforests hold countless discoveries to come that could cure many illnesses and enable advancements that enrich our human existence, as well. As, I certainly.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
As, I certainly. Hope, our stewardship of the natural world. However, although they're often overlooked. The same is very much true of our oceans. These scientific and ecological discoveries. Must benefit all
**** Possible New Speaker ****
nations so that their benefits are not simply the preserve of. The. Already wealthy. So I. Very much welcome.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Very much welcome. The emphasis on open access repositories and databases that is so. Prominent in. The BBA agreement.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
The BBA agreement. safeguards. Like the polluter. Pays principle. And the precautionary principle.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
And the precautionary principle. And I hope this will pave the way for international action that will finally turn the tide upon absolutely intended on the reckless, absolutely intended on the reckless, destructive practices that nations across the world have perpetrated. the.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
the. Opportunity to speak on the high seas go by. Without. Mentioning the Global Plastics
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Mentioning the Global Plastics Treaty, which I hope we could find an international agreement on soon. I pay strong tribute to the Minister and the. British delegation.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
British delegation. To the Geneva talks. From her recent appearance, the environment, Food and Rural Affairs Committee, we Food and Rural Affairs Committee, we know that she regrets very deeply the collapse of those talks without an agreement, and I know that she's already redoubling efforts to find a
**** Possible New Speaker ****
already redoubling efforts to find a way forward so that. We can. Start to see environmental catastrophe, such as the Great. Pacific Garbage.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Patch halted. And reversed. On that note. I urge the government to do. Whatever it can.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Whatever it can. Alongside fellow members of the High Ambition Coalition. advance. International action on this
**** Possible New Speaker ****
urgent issue. The government is. Committed, as. We've heard, to protecting 30% of the ocean by 2030. This bill makes.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Good on that commitment on an. International level, not just as an environmental ambition, but as a an environmental ambition, but as a foundation for international cooperation, sustainable development and global food resilience. I commend the government for.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
commend the government for. Its leadership in bringing. This legislation forward, particularly as my hon. Friend the member for Chesterfield said in a
**** Possible New Speaker ****
member for Chesterfield said in a very packed legislative programme. As. We seek to get. Our. Country back on its feet. This demonstrates this
**** Possible New Speaker ****
This demonstrates this government's commitment to and prioritising of the health and sustainability of our oceans beyond
**** Possible New Speaker ****
national jurisdiction, and I. Urge colleagues across. The House to support it. Whether you live by the sea or in Cannock
**** Possible New Speaker ****
you live by the sea or in Cannock Chase in the heart of England, a secure. And sustainable future for us all.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
all. The oceans cannot wait and nor should the United Kingdom. Thank you. John Whitby.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
John Whitby. Yeah. You might have. Speaker. Our oceans are teeming. With complex.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Life, but today they are also in a state of crisis. Climate change, pollution,
**** Possible New Speaker ****
plastics. Are all placing. Our. Oceans under. Strain like never before. Our oceans are. Paying the price, with over a
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Paying the price, with over a third of UK. Fish stocks. Currently overfished, and more than a third of marine. Mammals at risk.
14:51
John Whitby MP (Derbyshire Dales, Labour)
-
-
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Mammals at risk. Of extinction. The High. Seas Treaty, which this bill will ratify into UK law, therefore
**** Possible New Speaker ****
needed. Step forward. For the. First. Time, this. Treaty creates a. Legal mechanism to establish.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Legal mechanism to establish. international. Waters. A crucial tool to ensure that by
**** Possible New Speaker ****
A crucial tool to ensure that by 2030 and in accordance with the Global Biodiversity Framework, 30% of the world's.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
of the world's. Land and sea will be protected. this. Treaty. Will also depend.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Treaty. Will also depend. On whether it is enforced, and I urge the government to ensure that help.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
help. marine. Protected areas. We must also.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
We must also. protect. Marine life here in the UK. 38% of UK. Waters are. Now designated.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Now designated. As Marine Protected areas. However. During our inquiry into the. Environment.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Environment. Committee. Heard. That these sites lacked sufficient protection.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
sufficient protection. targets. And protecting. 30% of. Land. And sea. Therefore, while.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Therefore, while. Government proposals to nearly triple the amount of seabed. is. Welcome.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Welcome. I urge it to enact. The recommendation. From the Environmental Audit. Committee and ban bottom trawling.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
ban bottom trawling. In all marine protected areas. Without a. Ban, it's hard to see how we can
**** Possible New Speaker ****
claim these areas of protected at all. Bottom trawling. Is a highly. Destructive practice that tears at the seabed.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
at the seabed. Destroys habitats. And releases carbon stored in the ocean floor. As David Attenborough said in.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
As David Attenborough said in. His film ocean, the idea of. Bulldozing a. Rainforest causes
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Bulldozing a. Rainforest causes outrage. We do the same underwater every day. We also can't protect our oceans. Without addressing.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Without addressing. The climate crisis. The oceans have absorbed 90% of. All excess heat.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
All excess heat. Caused by climate change, and this excess heat is resulting in. Widespread marine heatwaves, killing Widespread marine heatwaves, killing marine ecosystems and causing our oceans to acidify. The IPCC is being
**** Possible New Speaker ****
oceans to acidify. The IPCC is being clear if. We. Allow warming to reach. 1.5 degrees C, that the vast.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
1.5 degrees C, that the vast. Majority of coral reefs will be lost forever. Some of our opponents lost forever. Some of our opponents willingness to abandon climate commitments means that it's on us to commitments means that it's on us to go further and faster, and to do all we can to protect nature and stop
John Whitby MP (Derbyshire Dales, Labour)
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Mammals at risk. Of extinction. The High. Seas Treaty, which this bill will ratify into UK law, therefore
**** Possible New Speaker ****
needed. Step forward. For the. First. Time, this. Treaty creates a. Legal mechanism to establish.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Legal mechanism to establish. international. Waters. A crucial tool to ensure that by
**** Possible New Speaker ****
A crucial tool to ensure that by 2030 and in accordance with the Global Biodiversity Framework, 30% of the world's.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
of the world's. Land and sea will be protected. this. Treaty. Will also depend.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Treaty. Will also depend. On whether it is enforced, and I urge the government to ensure that help.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
help. marine. Protected areas. We must also.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
We must also. protect. Marine life here in the UK. 38% of UK. Waters are. Now designated.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Now designated. As Marine Protected areas. However. During our inquiry into the. Environment.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Environment. Committee. Heard. That these sites lacked sufficient protection.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
sufficient protection. targets. And protecting. 30% of. Land. And sea. Therefore, while.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Therefore, while. Government proposals to nearly triple the amount of seabed. is. Welcome.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Welcome. I urge it to enact. The recommendation. From the Environmental Audit. Committee and ban bottom trawling.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
ban bottom trawling. In all marine protected areas. Without a. Ban, it's hard to see how we can
**** Possible New Speaker ****
claim these areas of protected at all. Bottom trawling. Is a highly. Destructive practice that tears at the seabed.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
at the seabed. Destroys habitats. And releases carbon stored in the ocean floor. As David Attenborough said in.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
As David Attenborough said in. His film ocean, the idea of. Bulldozing a. Rainforest causes
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Bulldozing a. Rainforest causes outrage. We do the same underwater every day. We also can't protect our oceans. Without addressing.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Without addressing. The climate crisis. The oceans have absorbed 90% of. All excess heat.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
All excess heat. Caused by climate change, and this excess heat is resulting in. Widespread marine heatwaves, killing Widespread marine heatwaves, killing marine ecosystems and causing our oceans to acidify. The IPCC is being
**** Possible New Speaker ****
oceans to acidify. The IPCC is being clear if. We. Allow warming to reach. 1.5 degrees C, that the vast.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
1.5 degrees C, that the vast. Majority of coral reefs will be lost forever. Some of our opponents lost forever. Some of our opponents willingness to abandon climate commitments means that it's on us to commitments means that it's on us to go further and faster, and to do all we can to protect nature and stop
14:53
Tristan Osborne MP (Chatham and Aylesford, Labour)
-
-
**** Possible New Speaker ****
the climate crisis. This bill today represents a welcome move. In. That direction. Yeah. Tristan Osborne.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Tristan Osborne. Thank you. Thank you very much. Madam Deputy Speaker, it seems to me that the natural world is the greatest source of excitement, the greatest source of visual beauty, the greatest source of intellectual interest. It is the greatest source of so much in life that makes life worth living. Wise words by David Attenborough. And ones which, whether you are a university professor in Oxford or a 12 year old watching the Blue Planet on the BBC, or indeed a specialist in ocean conservation that I met yesterday as part of my responsibility as vice Chair of the all-party parliamentary group on oceans.
Everyone in this room, everyone in this country, everyone on this planet, has an interest in ensuring that our oceans are protected. Because when you stare down from space at our blue jewel of a world, it is simply unfathomable that 230,000,000km² of it are effectively, at present, unmanaged. It is a free for all, and it has been allowed to become so because of history. But we now have that obligation in this room and across multilateral agreements with other countries to create a system of management.
And I think that that is the wonders of our country and our democracy and that of countries around the world, that finally we can introduce a piece of legislation where we can manage many of these vocations. And I stand as a proud MP for Medway, Chatham in particular, an area with the historic dockyard which served so many of our maritime, trade and war Navy support, and many in my community have a proud history and legacy of serving on the oceans from the from the from the fleets supplying freight to our Royal Naval tradition.
And Madam Deputy Speaker, of course, our country has a proud history of conservation through the National Trust and terrestrial organisations, but we also have a number of third party sector organisations which have been committed to delivering on ocean conservation, not just with this treaty, but for many going in the past. Oceana, the Marine Conservation Foundation, the excellent work of Plymouth University and Southampton's National Oceanographic Centre, which I had the pleasure alongside my right honourable friend from Brent West to visit earlier on this year.
Our Natural History Museum, both in London and across the world country, the World Wildlife Foundation and Greenpeace, all of which have advocated for this in many ways, and they continue with their work to do so in many cases. This isn't high profile. In many cases, they do the work quietly and behind the scenes, engaging with Defra. I'm sure the civil servants will agree to make sure that they are safeguarding our fisheries and our world. So this bill is extremely welcome and of course it does come at a timely moment because we know that the High Seas Treaty reached the required 60 ratifications on the 19th of September, and the 60th ratification triggered a 120 day countdown, after which the treaty comes into force.
So we know if we want to be at that table, that multilateral table to deliver for our residents and our communities and our country, that we need to deliver this today. So I welcome the Minister's placing this before the House, and I welcome the debate across this chamber from people who are fascinated by the sperm whale to the right whale, to those of road across oceans and seas. The contents of this bill are critically important. The genetic heritage not mentioned much today, but actually the critical element.
There are cures for cancer, for heart disease. There could be that legacy. That genetic heritage is a marker for our future on this planet. And if there are cures that come from this, it is today in this bill that we give security and licence around it. The designation of marine protection areas, much debated across this chamber in regards to UK controls. And of course, I agree with many of my colleagues that we need to do more domestically to protect our MPAs and make them fit for purpose and live up to their designation.
But this does create the licence for marine protection areas in international waters. And I think that that will be supporting our heritage and legacy for future generations. Of course, it is a pathway to the 3030 goal to protect 30% of world oceans, and it does give scientific protections around licensing. We know that there are significant challenges for both our biotic resources and our abiotic resources. Much has been spent this afternoon talking about the damage caused by international industrial fisheries.
With new technologies and industrial sized trawlers coming from many nations of the world, the damage caused by these monsters, as I refer them to, is absolutely decimating or not only our biological resource directly in that location, but seabird species and any food chains associated with it. There is a debate about mining and drilling that is coming in the next 10 to 20 years, as we begin to get access to our deep sea resources. And so whether it's hydrates or base metals that we are needing, we need to have that conversation.
And I implore the government to look very closely at any moratorium. And of course, climate change not to be denied by many across the world. It is happening. Species are under threat and they are in the destruction of habitats. As a result of that warming of the ocean, the acidification of the ocean is impacting both coral reefs and seaweed beds alike. So, as I conclude, Madam Deputy Speaker, there are a number of questions I still have around the use of the Marine Management Association in this country and our infos.
How much extra resource will they need? Because I certainly have questions at present around the MMO and its oversight. How do we know that this is going to be enforced? The UN has calculated that to make this effective, we might need to be looking at figures around £170 billion. That's dollars annually. Where is that money going to come from? There is some serious questions. Who will enforce overfishing and marine protection areas when we have fishing piracy ongoing around the world, and what are the measures as well for dispute resolution? We know with the United Nations Convention on the law of the sea that disputes around the South China Sea with China and also in the Arctic are ongoing.
So what measures a mediation will this treaty introduce? I'm this treaty for me is it tells everyone watching about our values, whether it's be a 12 year old who is a blue planet watcher to that professor in a submersible in the Arctic. I believe that it sets the tone for the next 100 years. I
**** Possible New Speaker ****
think it's necessary that we do this it. Thank you.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Which brings. Us to the frontbench contributions for the Liberal contributions for the Liberal Democrats. Pippa Heylings. Madam Deputy Speaker, I think what we can Deputy Speaker, I think what we can see is across the chamber. You're see is across the chamber. You're supposed to ask for the leave of the House. With the Bishop of the House. Madam Deputy Speaker, I think it only remains to say that what we have heard across this chamber are have heard across this chamber are impassioned and professional
Tristan Osborne MP (Chatham and Aylesford, Labour)
**** Possible New Speaker ****
the climate crisis. This bill today represents a welcome move. In. That direction. Yeah. Tristan Osborne.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Tristan Osborne. Thank you. Thank you very much. Madam Deputy Speaker, it seems to me that the natural world is the greatest source of excitement, the greatest source of visual beauty, the greatest source of intellectual interest. It is the greatest source of so much in life that makes life worth living. Wise words by David Attenborough. And ones which, whether you are a university professor in Oxford or a 12 year old watching the Blue Planet on the BBC, or indeed a specialist in ocean conservation that I met yesterday as part of my responsibility as vice Chair of the all-party parliamentary group on oceans.
Everyone in this room, everyone in this country, everyone on this planet, has an interest in ensuring that our oceans are protected. Because when you stare down from space at our blue jewel of a world, it is simply unfathomable that 230,000,000km² of it are effectively, at present, unmanaged. It is a free for all, and it has been allowed to become so because of history. But we now have that obligation in this room and across multilateral agreements with other countries to create a system of management.
And I think that that is the wonders of our country and our democracy and that of countries around the world, that finally we can introduce a piece of legislation where we can manage many of these vocations. And I stand as a proud MP for Medway, Chatham in particular, an area with the historic dockyard which served so many of our maritime, trade and war Navy support, and many in my community have a proud history and legacy of serving on the oceans from the from the from the fleets supplying freight to our Royal Naval tradition.
And Madam Deputy Speaker, of course, our country has a proud history of conservation through the National Trust and terrestrial organisations, but we also have a number of third party sector organisations which have been committed to delivering on ocean conservation, not just with this treaty, but for many going in the past. Oceana, the Marine Conservation Foundation, the excellent work of Plymouth University and Southampton's National Oceanographic Centre, which I had the pleasure alongside my right honourable friend from Brent West to visit earlier on this year.
Our Natural History Museum, both in London and across the world country, the World Wildlife Foundation and Greenpeace, all of which have advocated for this in many ways, and they continue with their work to do so in many cases. This isn't high profile. In many cases, they do the work quietly and behind the scenes, engaging with Defra. I'm sure the civil servants will agree to make sure that they are safeguarding our fisheries and our world. So this bill is extremely welcome and of course it does come at a timely moment because we know that the High Seas Treaty reached the required 60 ratifications on the 19th of September, and the 60th ratification triggered a 120 day countdown, after which the treaty comes into force.
So we know if we want to be at that table, that multilateral table to deliver for our residents and our communities and our country, that we need to deliver this today. So I welcome the Minister's placing this before the House, and I welcome the debate across this chamber from people who are fascinated by the sperm whale to the right whale, to those of road across oceans and seas. The contents of this bill are critically important. The genetic heritage not mentioned much today, but actually the critical element.
There are cures for cancer, for heart disease. There could be that legacy. That genetic heritage is a marker for our future on this planet. And if there are cures that come from this, it is today in this bill that we give security and licence around it. The designation of marine protection areas, much debated across this chamber in regards to UK controls. And of course, I agree with many of my colleagues that we need to do more domestically to protect our MPAs and make them fit for purpose and live up to their designation.
But this does create the licence for marine protection areas in international waters. And I think that that will be supporting our heritage and legacy for future generations. Of course, it is a pathway to the 3030 goal to protect 30% of world oceans, and it does give scientific protections around licensing. We know that there are significant challenges for both our biotic resources and our abiotic resources. Much has been spent this afternoon talking about the damage caused by international industrial fisheries.
With new technologies and industrial sized trawlers coming from many nations of the world, the damage caused by these monsters, as I refer them to, is absolutely decimating or not only our biological resource directly in that location, but seabird species and any food chains associated with it. There is a debate about mining and drilling that is coming in the next 10 to 20 years, as we begin to get access to our deep sea resources. And so whether it's hydrates or base metals that we are needing, we need to have that conversation.
And I implore the government to look very closely at any moratorium. And of course, climate change not to be denied by many across the world. It is happening. Species are under threat and they are in the destruction of habitats. As a result of that warming of the ocean, the acidification of the ocean is impacting both coral reefs and seaweed beds alike. So, as I conclude, Madam Deputy Speaker, there are a number of questions I still have around the use of the Marine Management Association in this country and our infos.
How much extra resource will they need? Because I certainly have questions at present around the MMO and its oversight. How do we know that this is going to be enforced? The UN has calculated that to make this effective, we might need to be looking at figures around £170 billion. That's dollars annually. Where is that money going to come from? There is some serious questions. Who will enforce overfishing and marine protection areas when we have fishing piracy ongoing around the world, and what are the measures as well for dispute resolution? We know with the United Nations Convention on the law of the sea that disputes around the South China Sea with China and also in the Arctic are ongoing.
So what measures a mediation will this treaty introduce? I'm this treaty for me is it tells everyone watching about our values, whether it's be a 12 year old who is a blue planet watcher to that professor in a submersible in the Arctic. I believe that it sets the tone for the next 100 years. I
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think it's necessary that we do this it. Thank you.
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Which brings. Us to the frontbench contributions for the Liberal contributions for the Liberal Democrats. Pippa Heylings. Madam Deputy Speaker, I think what we can Deputy Speaker, I think what we can see is across the chamber. You're see is across the chamber. You're supposed to ask for the leave of the House. With the Bishop of the House. Madam Deputy Speaker, I think it only remains to say that what we have heard across this chamber are have heard across this chamber are impassioned and professional
15:01
Pippa Heylings MP (South Cambridgeshire, Liberal Democrat)
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Pippa Heylings MP (South Cambridgeshire, Liberal Democrat)
expertise, and also the importance of working together, not only in terms of the importance of multilateralism, but the importance. And I do hope we're all listening, the importance of working together across the chamber on something which is of such vital importance to all of our constituents, to all of our allies across the world, to all of those in our overseas territories, to finally fill in the gap of the lawless part of the oceans, which needs us to have finally, this global ocean governance which we can all agree on collectively.
That will be hard. As you've heard, I've worked with both artisanal and industrial fishermen. I've worked with researchers and scientists and conservationists. It is not easy, and it will not be easy to come to agreement around both area based management plans and the ocean sanctuaries and MPAs that we are looking to create. But we can do it if we all work together. And I truly implore across all parties, across all benches, that we ensure that in a timely fashion, we get to ratification so that we can be part of the new global ocean movement and sit at the table at the first global Ocean Cop and take a leading position going forward.
We owe it to ourselves, to the children of everyone we know and to the future of the planet. Thank you. Yeah, so
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Alec Shelbrooke. Thank you very much, Madam Deputy Speaker. And indeed, this has been a Speaker. And indeed, this has been a very wide ranging and important debate this afternoon on this very debate this afternoon on this very vital bill. And there've been many valuable, informed contributions, not least from the honourable not least from the honourable members for Glasgow North Calder Valley North East Hertfordshire Cannock Chase, Derbyshire Dales Cannock Chase, Derbyshire Dales Chatham and Aylesford, and indeed, the honourable member for Exeter is rightly proud of the great academic institutions that he has in his constituency, highlighting the constituency, highlighting the important role that UK research plays in the world.
It was a pleasure that the Honourable lady pleasure that the Honourable lady for Rotherham was able to be one of the first Backbench contributions, because she reinforced the points of because she reinforced the points of my honourable friend the member for Romford made about the destruction of the marine environment, and I of the marine environment, and I know that she speaks on this from not just a position of expertise, but from a position of passion. And but from a position of passion. And she has shown that over so many years, with the commitment to our oceans and the work she has led on.
oceans and the work she has led on. And may I say to the Liberal Democrat spokesman, the honourable lady for South Cambridgeshire, she lady for South Cambridgeshire, she shows why so important in this House that we have such a wide ranging experience of people who had lives outside of this place, Madam Deputy Speaker, because she has brought an expertise to this debate that I am sure many of us actually envy in what she has been able to do, the intellect she's applied to, the argument, and the fact that we can all listen carefully to what she said.
The honourable lady for Bristol East I thought May said something very important. She was talking about marine deforestation, and she was talking about some of the mainstream media shows that she she had suggested. I think she had heard that some of the footage had been too shocking to show. And I think that that represents a real problem in this debate, Madam Deputy Speaker, because what are we wrapping this up in cotton wool for some people to not really show exactly what it is we're trying to deal with.
I think she raised a very important point there. And I do give us I mean, just just one second. I think she does make a very important point there that we shouldn't hide away from what's actually going on in the world. I give way to the honourable lady.
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For giving way, and I agree with him to an extent. It was actually reported in the Guardian that some of the footage was deemed too of the footage was deemed too shocking to be shown. But if he had seen the bit, I don't know if he's seen the film, but what remains in seen the film, but what remains in the film is actually really incredibly powerful. And certainly I had been talking about bottom trawling from a factual, having read trawling from a factual, having read about it on paper for a long time, but it was only when I actually saw those images that really brings home
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those images that really brings home Shelbrooke. I'm grateful to the Honourable lady for that very important intervention. And the honourable intervention. And the honourable Lady for Bath raised the importance of mainstream media, and we are of mainstream media, and we are indeed grateful as well for her. Apologies to my honourable friend for misinterpreting the drive he was for misinterpreting the drive he was making about the importance of the Chagos Islands. It is actually disappointing, Madam Deputy Speaker, that the member for Chesterfield, that the member for Chesterfield, who's not in his place, felt that there weren't enough of my colleagues on these benches.
Those of us who were here have stayed here, and I would say that, Mr Speaker has commented on many an Speaker has commented on many an occasion, Madam Deputy Speaker, that occasion, Madam Deputy Speaker, that I can often be more than enough. The honourable lady, the honourable lady for South Cotswolds pointed out how little we knew about the oceans, and I think that that is actually a very important point, because it is often been said, we talk very much and we get lots of coverage about exploration of space.
We're talking about manning the moon again. We're talking about maybe using that as a launching pad to go to Mars. And yet there's just so much of our own planet, which is completely unknown and not explored. Which brings me on to the honourable member for Brent West, who has a genuine interest in expertise. He gave a wide ranging and important speech. Madam Deputy Speaker, and I think very important point about the ocean being one of the biggest solutions to climate change.
And he is indeed right that there is a legacy from the days when we owned half the world of the European economic zones that exist from that, and it's one of the great achievements of the last Conservative government in the work we did with the Blue Belt and making sure that we protected these important marine environments. And I noticed and I don't know whether he will expand on this in later debates, Madam Deputy Speaker, that he didn't appear to be fully supportive of not well, giving up on the fisheries from the EU.
With the EU reset, I wonder if he may have things to add to that debate at another time. Perhaps now's not the time and place, but but he does make an important point that there is, you know, what we have to do as a country, Madam Deputy Speaker, we can only do if we have the ability to actually do it in those waters. And I will come on to the points my friend made towards the end. The honourable lady for Ely and East Cambridgeshire.
It was a real pity in how she approached the subject about what the Conservative Party have done in these areas because as I said, I'm proud of some of the work we did not in Deputy Speaker in the blue belt, in working on this bill and working on this, as I think we've seen this afternoon, that there is a wide support across the House and the honourable Right honourable lady for Islington South and Finsbury pointed out the genuine delight of this House, that we can
That will be hard. As you've heard, I've worked with both artisanal and industrial fishermen. I've worked with researchers and scientists and conservationists. It is not easy, and it will not be easy to come to agreement around both area based management plans and the ocean sanctuaries and MPAs that we are looking to create. But we can do it if we all work together. And I truly implore across all parties, across all benches, that we ensure that in a timely fashion, we get to ratification so that we can be part of the new global ocean movement and sit at the table at the first global Ocean Cop and take a leading position going forward.
We owe it to ourselves, to the children of everyone we know and to the future of the planet. Thank you. Yeah, so
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Alec Shelbrooke. Thank you very much, Madam Deputy Speaker. And indeed, this has been a Speaker. And indeed, this has been a very wide ranging and important debate this afternoon on this very debate this afternoon on this very vital bill. And there've been many valuable, informed contributions, not least from the honourable not least from the honourable members for Glasgow North Calder Valley North East Hertfordshire Cannock Chase, Derbyshire Dales Cannock Chase, Derbyshire Dales Chatham and Aylesford, and indeed, the honourable member for Exeter is rightly proud of the great academic institutions that he has in his constituency, highlighting the constituency, highlighting the important role that UK research plays in the world.
It was a pleasure that the Honourable lady pleasure that the Honourable lady for Rotherham was able to be one of the first Backbench contributions, because she reinforced the points of because she reinforced the points of my honourable friend the member for Romford made about the destruction of the marine environment, and I of the marine environment, and I know that she speaks on this from not just a position of expertise, but from a position of passion. And but from a position of passion. And she has shown that over so many years, with the commitment to our oceans and the work she has led on.
oceans and the work she has led on. And may I say to the Liberal Democrat spokesman, the honourable lady for South Cambridgeshire, she lady for South Cambridgeshire, she shows why so important in this House that we have such a wide ranging experience of people who had lives outside of this place, Madam Deputy Speaker, because she has brought an expertise to this debate that I am sure many of us actually envy in what she has been able to do, the intellect she's applied to, the argument, and the fact that we can all listen carefully to what she said.
The honourable lady for Bristol East I thought May said something very important. She was talking about marine deforestation, and she was talking about some of the mainstream media shows that she she had suggested. I think she had heard that some of the footage had been too shocking to show. And I think that that represents a real problem in this debate, Madam Deputy Speaker, because what are we wrapping this up in cotton wool for some people to not really show exactly what it is we're trying to deal with.
I think she raised a very important point there. And I do give us I mean, just just one second. I think she does make a very important point there that we shouldn't hide away from what's actually going on in the world. I give way to the honourable lady.
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For giving way, and I agree with him to an extent. It was actually reported in the Guardian that some of the footage was deemed too of the footage was deemed too shocking to be shown. But if he had seen the bit, I don't know if he's seen the film, but what remains in seen the film, but what remains in the film is actually really incredibly powerful. And certainly I had been talking about bottom trawling from a factual, having read trawling from a factual, having read about it on paper for a long time, but it was only when I actually saw those images that really brings home
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those images that really brings home Shelbrooke. I'm grateful to the Honourable lady for that very important intervention. And the honourable intervention. And the honourable Lady for Bath raised the importance of mainstream media, and we are of mainstream media, and we are indeed grateful as well for her. Apologies to my honourable friend for misinterpreting the drive he was for misinterpreting the drive he was making about the importance of the Chagos Islands. It is actually disappointing, Madam Deputy Speaker, that the member for Chesterfield, that the member for Chesterfield, who's not in his place, felt that there weren't enough of my colleagues on these benches.
Those of us who were here have stayed here, and I would say that, Mr Speaker has commented on many an Speaker has commented on many an occasion, Madam Deputy Speaker, that occasion, Madam Deputy Speaker, that I can often be more than enough. The honourable lady, the honourable lady for South Cotswolds pointed out how little we knew about the oceans, and I think that that is actually a very important point, because it is often been said, we talk very much and we get lots of coverage about exploration of space.
We're talking about manning the moon again. We're talking about maybe using that as a launching pad to go to Mars. And yet there's just so much of our own planet, which is completely unknown and not explored. Which brings me on to the honourable member for Brent West, who has a genuine interest in expertise. He gave a wide ranging and important speech. Madam Deputy Speaker, and I think very important point about the ocean being one of the biggest solutions to climate change.
And he is indeed right that there is a legacy from the days when we owned half the world of the European economic zones that exist from that, and it's one of the great achievements of the last Conservative government in the work we did with the Blue Belt and making sure that we protected these important marine environments. And I noticed and I don't know whether he will expand on this in later debates, Madam Deputy Speaker, that he didn't appear to be fully supportive of not well, giving up on the fisheries from the EU.
With the EU reset, I wonder if he may have things to add to that debate at another time. Perhaps now's not the time and place, but but he does make an important point that there is, you know, what we have to do as a country, Madam Deputy Speaker, we can only do if we have the ability to actually do it in those waters. And I will come on to the points my friend made towards the end. The honourable lady for Ely and East Cambridgeshire.
It was a real pity in how she approached the subject about what the Conservative Party have done in these areas because as I said, I'm proud of some of the work we did not in Deputy Speaker in the blue belt, in working on this bill and working on this, as I think we've seen this afternoon, that there is a wide support across the House and the honourable Right honourable lady for Islington South and Finsbury pointed out the genuine delight of this House, that we can
15:09
Rt Hon Sir Alec Shelbrooke MP (Wetherby and Easingwold, Conservative)
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Rt Hon Sir Alec Shelbrooke MP (Wetherby and Easingwold, Conservative)
have so many experts speak on such an important issue, and I think that she also echoed the point of my she also echoed the point of my honourable friend for Romford about the concerns which are surrounding what happens with the Chagos Bill, what happens with the Chagos Bill, which I don't want to go into great detail, Madam Deputy Speaker, because we're going to be here a because we're going to be here a long time on Monday evening debating this bill. But I think she was driving at the point that the driving at the point that the insurances in this bill don't go in the Chagos Bill.
Do not go far enough in protecting the blue belt. enough in protecting the blue belt. And I think I again, I welcome the clarification she made about the. clarification she made about the. Our side has indeed raised the issues of the blue belt. And I think that she she comes with expertise that she she comes with expertise and deserves to be listened to when she's raising these very, very important points. And as I said so the Minister opened up by talking about the urgency and importance of about the urgency and importance of this moment.
Madam Deputy Speaker, and indeed that is true. But my hon. Friend for Romford, when he opened Friend for Romford, when he opened up, made some very serious points, and not least about how we can and not least about how we can ensure that the responsibilities that the United Kingdom has always taken towards marine fisheries and taken towards marine fisheries and what we do don't get overridden if we cannot control entirely the work we would want to do. And he was making the point that do in the scheme with him.
We've got to make sure we don't hand over the ability for other countries to stop us doing that work. One thing I kind of just briefly touched on this because it's not part of this debate, but the reality is, is that the UN Security Council, set up for a reason, now finds it very hard to act on what's going on in Ukraine because it gets overridden with a veto from Russia. So when we are debating about being able to employ the laws and employ the protections, we need to be put in place, we must make sure that we have that ability as a government, as a country, to ensure that we can support those.
And these are areas that will be brought forward at committee stage, even if as probing amendments. Madam Deputy Speaker, because we want to make sure that this bill can do exactly what it's supposed to do with the intentions that it has in place. And I do think that the reality of this bill also comes into some of the situations that we see on the horizon. Now, we know about the opening up of the Arctic, the melting of the sea ice, the opening of the Northeast Passage for many months of the year.
Now, certainly weeks, Madam Deputy Speaker is fully navigable. You know, the ice has gone away by that much. But at the same time, we know that President Putin and the Russians have said that there are hydrocarbon resources in that ocean that they want to mine, and that would be devastating. Madam Deputy Speaker, on the fragile ecosystems that exist in that unique area of the world that is almost completely untouched. And I had the pleasure back in May or being part of the NATO PA visiting Svalbard and the University of Svalbard has dozens of countries, universities, academic institutions, hundreds of nationalities studying that region, studying climate change and the effect has on the Arctic studying the effects on ecosystems.
And so it is absolutely vital. Madam Deputy Speaker, as we see the geopolitical tensions forming in areas where they haven't been before, that we have
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these strong protections in place. I was about to finish, but I will give way to. Barry Gardiner.
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Barry Gardiner. And he's absolutely right. To talk about the opening up of the Arctic and the. Geostrategic threats that we face
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Geostrategic threats that we face there. In that respect. Would he support. My call earlier today that the government should release the
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the government should release the Joint Intelligence Committee's. Report on.
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Report on. The link between biodiversity, sustainability and national security?
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Sir Alec Shelbrooke. I'm not going to be drawn quite into that trap of how. About releasing a joint intelligence reports? However, what the reports? However, what the honourable gentleman says is a very important point, Madam Deputy Speaker, because there is no doubt Speaker, because there is no doubt that we are talking about sovereign security if we don't get this right, security if we don't get this right, and that applies around the world. Madam Deputy Speaker, to all countries, if we allow the climate countries, if we allow the climate change and if we don't allow the protection of valuable ecosystems, as have been described by so many honourable and right honourable honourable and right honourable members across this House today, then it is all of us who are going to suffer, and therefore we have our to suffer, and therefore we have our concerns.
In some areas of the Bill. We will be bringing some amendments for committee stage and probing those. But on the whole, we hope that we can support this bill and that it's so important to carry on the work that our government started. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker.
Do not go far enough in protecting the blue belt. enough in protecting the blue belt. And I think I again, I welcome the clarification she made about the. clarification she made about the. Our side has indeed raised the issues of the blue belt. And I think that she she comes with expertise that she she comes with expertise and deserves to be listened to when she's raising these very, very important points. And as I said so the Minister opened up by talking about the urgency and importance of about the urgency and importance of this moment.
Madam Deputy Speaker, and indeed that is true. But my hon. Friend for Romford, when he opened Friend for Romford, when he opened up, made some very serious points, and not least about how we can and not least about how we can ensure that the responsibilities that the United Kingdom has always taken towards marine fisheries and taken towards marine fisheries and what we do don't get overridden if we cannot control entirely the work we would want to do. And he was making the point that do in the scheme with him.
We've got to make sure we don't hand over the ability for other countries to stop us doing that work. One thing I kind of just briefly touched on this because it's not part of this debate, but the reality is, is that the UN Security Council, set up for a reason, now finds it very hard to act on what's going on in Ukraine because it gets overridden with a veto from Russia. So when we are debating about being able to employ the laws and employ the protections, we need to be put in place, we must make sure that we have that ability as a government, as a country, to ensure that we can support those.
And these are areas that will be brought forward at committee stage, even if as probing amendments. Madam Deputy Speaker, because we want to make sure that this bill can do exactly what it's supposed to do with the intentions that it has in place. And I do think that the reality of this bill also comes into some of the situations that we see on the horizon. Now, we know about the opening up of the Arctic, the melting of the sea ice, the opening of the Northeast Passage for many months of the year.
Now, certainly weeks, Madam Deputy Speaker is fully navigable. You know, the ice has gone away by that much. But at the same time, we know that President Putin and the Russians have said that there are hydrocarbon resources in that ocean that they want to mine, and that would be devastating. Madam Deputy Speaker, on the fragile ecosystems that exist in that unique area of the world that is almost completely untouched. And I had the pleasure back in May or being part of the NATO PA visiting Svalbard and the University of Svalbard has dozens of countries, universities, academic institutions, hundreds of nationalities studying that region, studying climate change and the effect has on the Arctic studying the effects on ecosystems.
And so it is absolutely vital. Madam Deputy Speaker, as we see the geopolitical tensions forming in areas where they haven't been before, that we have
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these strong protections in place. I was about to finish, but I will give way to. Barry Gardiner.
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Barry Gardiner. And he's absolutely right. To talk about the opening up of the Arctic and the. Geostrategic threats that we face
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Geostrategic threats that we face there. In that respect. Would he support. My call earlier today that the government should release the
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the government should release the Joint Intelligence Committee's. Report on.
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Report on. The link between biodiversity, sustainability and national security?
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Sir Alec Shelbrooke. I'm not going to be drawn quite into that trap of how. About releasing a joint intelligence reports? However, what the reports? However, what the honourable gentleman says is a very important point, Madam Deputy Speaker, because there is no doubt Speaker, because there is no doubt that we are talking about sovereign security if we don't get this right, security if we don't get this right, and that applies around the world. Madam Deputy Speaker, to all countries, if we allow the climate countries, if we allow the climate change and if we don't allow the protection of valuable ecosystems, as have been described by so many honourable and right honourable honourable and right honourable members across this House today, then it is all of us who are going to suffer, and therefore we have our to suffer, and therefore we have our concerns.
In some areas of the Bill. We will be bringing some amendments for committee stage and probing those. But on the whole, we hope that we can support this bill and that it's so important to carry on the work that our government started. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker.
15:13
Seema Malhotra MP (Feltham and Heston, Labour )
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Seema Malhotra MP (Feltham and Heston, Labour )
Minister Seema Malhotra, thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. And may I start by thanking the shadow ministers and also the honourable and right honourable members from across the House for their thoughtful and constructive contributions to today's debate. And it has been encouraging, very encouraging, to hear the broad support across the House for this important piece of legislation and also the expertise that has been brought both from life experience prior to coming to this House, but also the extensive work of a number of our committees over such a long period of time.
And I do also want to recognise the work of a number of the key stakeholders involved in informing the debate, some of whom I was able to speak to in the course of preparing for today, including the Marine Conservation Society, Greenpeace, Oceana, Pew Trust and Blue Marine Foundation. And I also want to just perhaps make a cheeky remark with the towards the on a right honourable member for Wetherby and an easing world in that he for whom I have a lot of respect for suggesting that he could make up for the fact that there were no backbenchers here during the course of the debate.
But indeed he did make a very useful contribution in his remarks. But I do also just want to say that it is important because this should be a whole of House debate, and it is important to recognise that we are continuing work that was started under the previous government, which we had supported all the way through, and it is important that we are here and we are present from all parties because this does have a passage to go through. But as I will make some points during my remarks, the implementation and the ongoing debate on this is important, and it's important to be informed in that.
And I do want to just make some reference to contributions that were made. And I will draw on and those during my remarks in responding to them, but particularly also to mention the honourable member for South Cambridgeshire. And I think the comments around with her own experience, extensive experience that was very much respected by the House and I know will be a contribution, great contribution during the course of the legislation to. But also her comments around the importance of multilateralism and how we play our part in that, and we play our part with others around the world.
The my Right honourable friend the member for Rotherham who, with her experience as chairs of a number of ethnicities and long standing contributions, I will come back to some of the points that she raised, but it was very helpful to hear that early on in the debate, but also honourable members and right members for Bristol East Bath Chesterfield, Chair of Select Committee as well. South Cotswolds Committee as well. South Cotswolds South Cotswolds Brent West. Ely and East Cambridgeshire Islington South and Finsbury.
And I will come back to some of the points that were raised by my Right honourable friend Exeter Glasgow North Calder Valley North East Hertfordshire Cannock Chase Derbyshire Dales Chatham and Aylesford. I think it goes to show that we have had a whole country, whole of nation debate in in the contributions being made today, and I do just want to make one point as well before I go on to my more detailed remarks, which is the reference made to young people in the next generation in this.
And I will say that whilst and there was the, a very important point was made about how the oceans don't have voters. Actually, when I think about some of the issues that are most important to young people, including in primary schools, in my constituency, the oceans and the health of our oceans, and how we protect our environment is absolutely a very high on the agenda. And I think the oceans have their supporters across all of our generations, and that is an important and important thing.
But let me start by reminding the House why this bill and the agreement matters. The BPA agreement is a huge step towards protecting our shared ocean. It will enable greater conservation of the two thirds of the ocean that lie lies beyond national jurisdiction, and will support the delivery of the coming Montreal Global Biodiversity Framework, which includes the target to effectively conserve and manage at least 30% of the ocean by 2030. Environmental degradation could lead to huge economic costs globally, making ocean conservation a long term economic imperative to.
This agreement supports the UK's wider climate and nature agenda, ensuring that we remain at the forefront of global efforts to tackle biodiversity loss and climate change through multilateral cooperation. It also strengthens the role of international law and multilateral institutions, and reinforces the UN convention on the law of the sea as the foundation for global governance. There are also clear opportunities for the UK, which has one of the world's leading marine scientific research communities. World renowned institutions in the UK, such as the National Oceanic and Oceanic Oceanography Centre, Marine Biological Association and our leading university marine science departments are at the forefront of ocean research and will greatly benefit from provisions in the agreement which promote transparency and data sharing around marine genetic resources.
Madam Deputy Speaker, the bill, along with our secondary legislation which will follow, will deliver on our commitment to ratify this historic agreement. But let me now turn to some of the points raised during the debate, and I will aim to answer as many questions as possible in relation to the Chagos Islands. This deal will help to protect the unique environment of the Chagos Archipelago. Both the UK and Mauritius have committed to protect one of the world's most important marine environments, and this commitment will be supported by an enhanced partnership between both countries, under which the UK will support Mauritius ambitions to establish a marine protected area that protects the globally significant ecosystems in the Chagos Archipelago.
Now this has been welcomed and in terms of the UK support for this, and which will be agreed in a separate written instrument, as well as part of the implementation of the agreement, and which government officials have already begun discussions with their Mauritian counterparts on what this will involve. But this has been welcomed by leading conservation NGOs, including the Zoological Society of London and both the UK and Mauritius attach great importance on the need to protect marine biodiversity, including the fight against illegal fishing.
Now, it is also worth mentioning that under the treaty, the UK will continue to manage environmental protection on Diego Garcia and the surrounding 12 nautical miles and this should be undertaken in accordance with applicable international law and with due regard to applicable Mauritian environmental laws. And it is just worth mentioning as well that my colleague, the Minister for Europe, North Africa and Overseas Territories is at the heart of these discussions and indeed, and has been leading on Mauritian maritime protection in the overseas territories through expansion and confirmation of funding for Blue Belt and work on what we do in the polar regions.
He's also met scientists in the Cayman and Bermuda last month and indeed on board the royal research ship Sir David Attenborough to discuss their crucial work in the Antarctic and Arctic. And we are doing a also a further crucial work in convention on the convention for conservation of the Antarctic Maritime Living Resources. And I'm sure that that will be an area of further debate in
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the House. I will give way very briefly. Well, I. Excuse me. I thank the Minister
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Excuse me. I thank the Minister for speaking about the points made about the British Indian Ocean Territory by myself and others, including the chairman of Foreign Affairs Committee. But the Marine protected area was established by the government of Gordon Brown at the tail end of the last Labour the tail end of the last Labour government. That's a vital area that we need to protect now. What guarantees can she honestly say that guarantees can she honestly say that we are getting that if we are to hand over the sovereignty of the hand over the sovereignty of the Chagos Archipelago to Mauritius, that they will protect it in the same way that we have done under both Labour and Conservative
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governments. Minister, I thank the Shadow Minister for his comments, and I Minister for his comments, and I will just reiterate what what I will just reiterate what what I said, which is that both the UK and Mauritius have attached great importance on the need to protect marine biodiversity. Indeed, there is still some responsibility for the UK on managing environmental UK on managing environmental protection on Diego Garcia and the surrounding 12 nautical miles, and there are discussions that are also ongoing in relation to the establishment of the marine protected area.
That will be the subject of a separate written agreement, and I'm sure, and I can't go on further because of wanting to go through other points, but this will be an issue that my Honourable friend will, I'm sure, be happy to discuss in the House further. But if I can go through some remaining of comments. Madam Deputy Speaker, the honourable member also raised the issue of protecting intellectual property rights and the Secretary of State. Indeed I can I can say that will not transmit information to the clearing House mechanism that would be protected under intellectual property or trade secrets law, and I'm sure that he will be aware of that from his reading.
Also of the Bill in relation to some parts of the process and implementation that was raised by a number of honourable members. This, as as has been discussed, is a is a very significant step in terms of us moving forward to ratify the agreement at the United Nations, which will happen following this and associated secondary legislation. And indeed, it is a huge step to protecting our shared ocean. It will provide the legal framework necessary to implement the BBA agreement domestically, ensuring the UK is able to comply fully with its international obligations under the agreement, and the Bill and subsequent statutory instruments will ensure that we can implement and enforce future decisions of the conference of the parties.
The international level a Preparatory Commission has been established to prepare for the convening of the first conference of the parties, and the UK has been fully engaged in the work of the Preparatory Commission, including co-chairing a working group on the design of the clearing House mechanism with Barbados, and this will lay the groundwork for a very successful first conference of the parties, which will enable parties and stakeholder to progress work on the ambitious implementation of the agreement in relation to bottom trawling, my honourable friend, in her opening remarks, made reference to the consultation that we've had and also the work we are doing in, in, in in relation to proposals to restrict bottom trawling in more vulnerable marine habitats.
And the government has outlined plans to restrict damaging fishery fishing activity in marine protected areas where needed to protect designated species and habitats in relation to plastics. Pollution is raised by a number of honourable members. The government participated in the UN's Intergovernmental Inter-Governmental Negotiating Committee to develop an international legally binding instrument on plastic pollution, and it is disappointing that an agreement was not reached at the resumed fifth session in Geneva in August, but we continue to work on this.
We are indeed a founding member of the High end Ambition Coalition to end plastics pollution in relation to institutional coordination that was raised by the honourable member for South Cotswolds. I can confirm that the Fcdo Ocean Policy Unit will be the national focal point, working closely with Defra, DFT and the FCO all working closely together and. And in relation to the Honourable member for Bristol East's question on deep sea mining, the UK does support a moratorium on the granting of exploitation contracts for deep sea mining projects by the International Seabed Authority, and this means that we will not sponsor or support the issuing of contracts until sufficient scientific guidance is available.
Just a couple of final points before my conclusion. Madam Deputy Speaker, in relation to the polluter pays prince principle and precautionary principle, parties to the BBA agreement are guided by such principles and approaches in achieving the objectives of the agreement, and therefore, it is our view that there is no specifically to include principles within the Bill as decisions from the conference of the parties. We I will, I'm running out of time, but I'm happy to pick up with her afterwards that ministers will have to abide by these principles.
The Environment Act 21 2021 places a duty on government ministers to have, due regard to environment, to the Environmental Principles policy statement when making policy, and we will need to always abide by these principles. But perhaps if I can just make some closing final remarks. Madam Deputy Speaker, just to thank members from across the House for their thoughtful and constructive contributions to today's debate, I have sought to address as many of the points raised as possible. I know there were more, and I'm happy to speak to colleagues in relation to those that weren't responded to today, but I am encouraged by their strong cross-party support for this important bill.
This is a landmark piece of legislation, and it does ensure that the UK can play its full part in the international movement to ratify this treaty. The measures it contains will not only strengthen and safeguard our marine ecosystems, but will strengthen our environmental security. They will also deliver real benefits for the UK's research and innovation community. This bill represents the UK taking decisive action, protecting the ocean that sustains us all while empowering scientists, innovators and institutions shaping its future.
And I commend this bill to the House. The question is that the bill be now read a second time. As many as of that opinion, say aye of the country. No, I think the ayes have it. The ayes have it. Programme motion to be moved formally.
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I beg to move. The question is as on the Order Paper, as many as are of that Paper, as many as are of that opinion, say aye, I of the contrary. No, I think the ayes have it. The
**** Possible New Speaker ****
No, I think the ayes have it. The ayes have it. Ways and means. Motion to be moved formally. I beg to move. The question is as on the Order
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The question is as on the Order Paper, as many as are of that opinion, say aye of the contrary.
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opinion, say aye of the contrary. No, I think the ayes have it, the ayes have it. I beg to move that.
And I do also want to recognise the work of a number of the key stakeholders involved in informing the debate, some of whom I was able to speak to in the course of preparing for today, including the Marine Conservation Society, Greenpeace, Oceana, Pew Trust and Blue Marine Foundation. And I also want to just perhaps make a cheeky remark with the towards the on a right honourable member for Wetherby and an easing world in that he for whom I have a lot of respect for suggesting that he could make up for the fact that there were no backbenchers here during the course of the debate.
But indeed he did make a very useful contribution in his remarks. But I do also just want to say that it is important because this should be a whole of House debate, and it is important to recognise that we are continuing work that was started under the previous government, which we had supported all the way through, and it is important that we are here and we are present from all parties because this does have a passage to go through. But as I will make some points during my remarks, the implementation and the ongoing debate on this is important, and it's important to be informed in that.
And I do want to just make some reference to contributions that were made. And I will draw on and those during my remarks in responding to them, but particularly also to mention the honourable member for South Cambridgeshire. And I think the comments around with her own experience, extensive experience that was very much respected by the House and I know will be a contribution, great contribution during the course of the legislation to. But also her comments around the importance of multilateralism and how we play our part in that, and we play our part with others around the world.
The my Right honourable friend the member for Rotherham who, with her experience as chairs of a number of ethnicities and long standing contributions, I will come back to some of the points that she raised, but it was very helpful to hear that early on in the debate, but also honourable members and right members for Bristol East Bath Chesterfield, Chair of Select Committee as well. South Cotswolds Committee as well. South Cotswolds South Cotswolds Brent West. Ely and East Cambridgeshire Islington South and Finsbury.
And I will come back to some of the points that were raised by my Right honourable friend Exeter Glasgow North Calder Valley North East Hertfordshire Cannock Chase Derbyshire Dales Chatham and Aylesford. I think it goes to show that we have had a whole country, whole of nation debate in in the contributions being made today, and I do just want to make one point as well before I go on to my more detailed remarks, which is the reference made to young people in the next generation in this.
And I will say that whilst and there was the, a very important point was made about how the oceans don't have voters. Actually, when I think about some of the issues that are most important to young people, including in primary schools, in my constituency, the oceans and the health of our oceans, and how we protect our environment is absolutely a very high on the agenda. And I think the oceans have their supporters across all of our generations, and that is an important and important thing.
But let me start by reminding the House why this bill and the agreement matters. The BPA agreement is a huge step towards protecting our shared ocean. It will enable greater conservation of the two thirds of the ocean that lie lies beyond national jurisdiction, and will support the delivery of the coming Montreal Global Biodiversity Framework, which includes the target to effectively conserve and manage at least 30% of the ocean by 2030. Environmental degradation could lead to huge economic costs globally, making ocean conservation a long term economic imperative to.
This agreement supports the UK's wider climate and nature agenda, ensuring that we remain at the forefront of global efforts to tackle biodiversity loss and climate change through multilateral cooperation. It also strengthens the role of international law and multilateral institutions, and reinforces the UN convention on the law of the sea as the foundation for global governance. There are also clear opportunities for the UK, which has one of the world's leading marine scientific research communities. World renowned institutions in the UK, such as the National Oceanic and Oceanic Oceanography Centre, Marine Biological Association and our leading university marine science departments are at the forefront of ocean research and will greatly benefit from provisions in the agreement which promote transparency and data sharing around marine genetic resources.
Madam Deputy Speaker, the bill, along with our secondary legislation which will follow, will deliver on our commitment to ratify this historic agreement. But let me now turn to some of the points raised during the debate, and I will aim to answer as many questions as possible in relation to the Chagos Islands. This deal will help to protect the unique environment of the Chagos Archipelago. Both the UK and Mauritius have committed to protect one of the world's most important marine environments, and this commitment will be supported by an enhanced partnership between both countries, under which the UK will support Mauritius ambitions to establish a marine protected area that protects the globally significant ecosystems in the Chagos Archipelago.
Now this has been welcomed and in terms of the UK support for this, and which will be agreed in a separate written instrument, as well as part of the implementation of the agreement, and which government officials have already begun discussions with their Mauritian counterparts on what this will involve. But this has been welcomed by leading conservation NGOs, including the Zoological Society of London and both the UK and Mauritius attach great importance on the need to protect marine biodiversity, including the fight against illegal fishing.
Now, it is also worth mentioning that under the treaty, the UK will continue to manage environmental protection on Diego Garcia and the surrounding 12 nautical miles and this should be undertaken in accordance with applicable international law and with due regard to applicable Mauritian environmental laws. And it is just worth mentioning as well that my colleague, the Minister for Europe, North Africa and Overseas Territories is at the heart of these discussions and indeed, and has been leading on Mauritian maritime protection in the overseas territories through expansion and confirmation of funding for Blue Belt and work on what we do in the polar regions.
He's also met scientists in the Cayman and Bermuda last month and indeed on board the royal research ship Sir David Attenborough to discuss their crucial work in the Antarctic and Arctic. And we are doing a also a further crucial work in convention on the convention for conservation of the Antarctic Maritime Living Resources. And I'm sure that that will be an area of further debate in
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the House. I will give way very briefly. Well, I. Excuse me. I thank the Minister
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Excuse me. I thank the Minister for speaking about the points made about the British Indian Ocean Territory by myself and others, including the chairman of Foreign Affairs Committee. But the Marine protected area was established by the government of Gordon Brown at the tail end of the last Labour the tail end of the last Labour government. That's a vital area that we need to protect now. What guarantees can she honestly say that guarantees can she honestly say that we are getting that if we are to hand over the sovereignty of the hand over the sovereignty of the Chagos Archipelago to Mauritius, that they will protect it in the same way that we have done under both Labour and Conservative
**** Possible New Speaker ****
governments. Minister, I thank the Shadow Minister for his comments, and I Minister for his comments, and I will just reiterate what what I will just reiterate what what I said, which is that both the UK and Mauritius have attached great importance on the need to protect marine biodiversity. Indeed, there is still some responsibility for the UK on managing environmental UK on managing environmental protection on Diego Garcia and the surrounding 12 nautical miles, and there are discussions that are also ongoing in relation to the establishment of the marine protected area.
That will be the subject of a separate written agreement, and I'm sure, and I can't go on further because of wanting to go through other points, but this will be an issue that my Honourable friend will, I'm sure, be happy to discuss in the House further. But if I can go through some remaining of comments. Madam Deputy Speaker, the honourable member also raised the issue of protecting intellectual property rights and the Secretary of State. Indeed I can I can say that will not transmit information to the clearing House mechanism that would be protected under intellectual property or trade secrets law, and I'm sure that he will be aware of that from his reading.
Also of the Bill in relation to some parts of the process and implementation that was raised by a number of honourable members. This, as as has been discussed, is a is a very significant step in terms of us moving forward to ratify the agreement at the United Nations, which will happen following this and associated secondary legislation. And indeed, it is a huge step to protecting our shared ocean. It will provide the legal framework necessary to implement the BBA agreement domestically, ensuring the UK is able to comply fully with its international obligations under the agreement, and the Bill and subsequent statutory instruments will ensure that we can implement and enforce future decisions of the conference of the parties.
The international level a Preparatory Commission has been established to prepare for the convening of the first conference of the parties, and the UK has been fully engaged in the work of the Preparatory Commission, including co-chairing a working group on the design of the clearing House mechanism with Barbados, and this will lay the groundwork for a very successful first conference of the parties, which will enable parties and stakeholder to progress work on the ambitious implementation of the agreement in relation to bottom trawling, my honourable friend, in her opening remarks, made reference to the consultation that we've had and also the work we are doing in, in, in in relation to proposals to restrict bottom trawling in more vulnerable marine habitats.
And the government has outlined plans to restrict damaging fishery fishing activity in marine protected areas where needed to protect designated species and habitats in relation to plastics. Pollution is raised by a number of honourable members. The government participated in the UN's Intergovernmental Inter-Governmental Negotiating Committee to develop an international legally binding instrument on plastic pollution, and it is disappointing that an agreement was not reached at the resumed fifth session in Geneva in August, but we continue to work on this.
We are indeed a founding member of the High end Ambition Coalition to end plastics pollution in relation to institutional coordination that was raised by the honourable member for South Cotswolds. I can confirm that the Fcdo Ocean Policy Unit will be the national focal point, working closely with Defra, DFT and the FCO all working closely together and. And in relation to the Honourable member for Bristol East's question on deep sea mining, the UK does support a moratorium on the granting of exploitation contracts for deep sea mining projects by the International Seabed Authority, and this means that we will not sponsor or support the issuing of contracts until sufficient scientific guidance is available.
Just a couple of final points before my conclusion. Madam Deputy Speaker, in relation to the polluter pays prince principle and precautionary principle, parties to the BBA agreement are guided by such principles and approaches in achieving the objectives of the agreement, and therefore, it is our view that there is no specifically to include principles within the Bill as decisions from the conference of the parties. We I will, I'm running out of time, but I'm happy to pick up with her afterwards that ministers will have to abide by these principles.
The Environment Act 21 2021 places a duty on government ministers to have, due regard to environment, to the Environmental Principles policy statement when making policy, and we will need to always abide by these principles. But perhaps if I can just make some closing final remarks. Madam Deputy Speaker, just to thank members from across the House for their thoughtful and constructive contributions to today's debate, I have sought to address as many of the points raised as possible. I know there were more, and I'm happy to speak to colleagues in relation to those that weren't responded to today, but I am encouraged by their strong cross-party support for this important bill.
This is a landmark piece of legislation, and it does ensure that the UK can play its full part in the international movement to ratify this treaty. The measures it contains will not only strengthen and safeguard our marine ecosystems, but will strengthen our environmental security. They will also deliver real benefits for the UK's research and innovation community. This bill represents the UK taking decisive action, protecting the ocean that sustains us all while empowering scientists, innovators and institutions shaping its future.
And I commend this bill to the House. The question is that the bill be now read a second time. As many as of that opinion, say aye of the country. No, I think the ayes have it. The ayes have it. Programme motion to be moved formally.
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I beg to move. The question is as on the Order Paper, as many as are of that Paper, as many as are of that opinion, say aye, I of the contrary. No, I think the ayes have it. The
**** Possible New Speaker ****
No, I think the ayes have it. The ayes have it. Ways and means. Motion to be moved formally. I beg to move. The question is as on the Order
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The question is as on the Order Paper, as many as are of that opinion, say aye of the contrary.
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opinion, say aye of the contrary. No, I think the ayes have it, the ayes have it. I beg to move that.
15:30
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I beg to move that. This House. Now do adjourn. The question is that this House
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The question is that this House do now adjourn. Alison Bennett. do now adjourn. Alison Bennett. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I wholeheartedly welcome the government's announcement this morning in anticipation of this afternoon's debate of £80 million worth of support for children's hospices over three years. I want to thank the Minister for listening to the calls of the children's hospice sector and the Liberal Democrats. The three year settlement will enable hospices to plan and deliver services over a longer period.
Above all, it will ensure seriously ill children and their families can continue to access hospice care. However, providers tell me this level of funding does not solve the children's hospice funding crisis, nor does it put children's hospices on a genuinely long term, sustainable financial footing. Bluntly, this funding will only slow the rate at which children's hospice services are being cut across the South East and indeed the whole of England. Children's hospices support thousands of seriously ill babies, children and young people, and the families who love and care for them.
One such organisation is Shooting Star Children's Hospice. A parent recently told them that without the support of the team at Shooting Star, I believe our family would be under enormous strain and feel unable to know where to turn. These are places of compassion, of expert medical care and of human dignity. They provide everything from end of life care to vital symptom management and psychological support. But our children's hospices are in crisis and unless urgent action is taken, many may disappear.
Since 2019, the number of children and young people needing end of life care has doubled. The demand for symptom management has surged by 108%. Hospice is. Hospices are having to provide more care and support than ever before, and yet they are struggling to keep their doors open. At the same time, inflation and rising costs,
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I beg to move that. This House. Now do adjourn. The question is that this House
**** Possible New Speaker ****
The question is that this House do now adjourn. Alison Bennett. do now adjourn. Alison Bennett. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I wholeheartedly welcome the government's announcement this morning in anticipation of this afternoon's debate of £80 million worth of support for children's hospices over three years. I want to thank the Minister for listening to the calls of the children's hospice sector and the Liberal Democrats. The three year settlement will enable hospices to plan and deliver services over a longer period.
Above all, it will ensure seriously ill children and their families can continue to access hospice care. However, providers tell me this level of funding does not solve the children's hospice funding crisis, nor does it put children's hospices on a genuinely long term, sustainable financial footing. Bluntly, this funding will only slow the rate at which children's hospice services are being cut across the South East and indeed the whole of England. Children's hospices support thousands of seriously ill babies, children and young people, and the families who love and care for them.
One such organisation is Shooting Star Children's Hospice. A parent recently told them that without the support of the team at Shooting Star, I believe our family would be under enormous strain and feel unable to know where to turn. These are places of compassion, of expert medical care and of human dignity. They provide everything from end of life care to vital symptom management and psychological support. But our children's hospices are in crisis and unless urgent action is taken, many may disappear.
Since 2019, the number of children and young people needing end of life care has doubled. The demand for symptom management has surged by 108%. Hospice is. Hospices are having to provide more care and support than ever before, and yet they are struggling to keep their doors open. At the same time, inflation and rising costs,
15:33
Alison Bennett MP (Mid Sussex, Liberal Democrat)
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Alison Bennett MP (Mid Sussex, Liberal Democrat)
particularly in recruiting and retaining highly skilled staff, has driven hospice expenditure up by an driven hospice expenditure up by an average of 15% in just the past year. The government's disastrous year. The government's disastrous National Insurance hike has only exacerbated these existing pressures. Taking an example, the pressures. Taking an example, the Southern Hospice Group is a local charity made up of three Sussex hospices. Chestnut tree has hospices. Chestnut tree has children's hospice near Arundel, Markets in Hove and Saint Barnabas Markets in Hove and Saint Barnabas House in Worthing.
The National Insurance rise has collectively cost Insurance rise has collectively cost them £500,000. Yes, the government has increased funding in cash terms, but it is simply not enough. Local NHS funding from integrated care NHS funding from integrated care boards remains 18% lower than it was three years ago, even as hospices three years ago, even as hospices stretched to meet rising demand, children's hospices are now dipping into their reserves to stay open in into their reserves to stay open in 2024, 25, 59% ended the year in 2024, 25, 59% ended the year in deficit in 2526.
That figure is expected to rise to a staggering expected to rise to a staggering 91%. This is clearly not sustainable. Meanwhile, a postcode lottery in funding continues. Recent FOI requests conducted by the charity together for Short Lives showed that some integrated care boards in London spent over £400 per child needing palliative care, while others spent less than £25 in the South East. We see this two one ICB spent over £260 per child, with another spending just over £100.
Only 32% of Iqbal could even say how many children accessed hospice care in their region. This gap in data must be filled. The announcement this morning suggested that funding being distributed via ICDs would tackle the postcode lottery issue. The results of these FOI would suggest that there is an awful long way to go. How will the Minister ensure that Icbc's commission children's hospice services equitably? What guidance will they be given to make sure that these vast variations in support are eliminated? If there is one thing that I want to emphasise, it is this that it is the people who are the beating heart of the hospice movement, highly qualified specialists, passionate volunteers and generous donors who all make the seemingly impossible happen.
But the workforce is in crisis. Incredibly, there are only 24 full time equivalent paediatric palliative medicine specialist that serve the entire UK. When we when we know that the need is for at least 40 to 60, if we followed the Royal College of Nursing's guidelines, we'd have nearly 5000 community children's nurses. Right now we have under a thousand. The professionals who care for our sickest children are being stretched to breaking point. So I urge the Minister and the government to build on today's announcement by firstly fixing the broken commissioning system.
Instruct NHS England and the departments and model what each local NHS body should be spending on palliative care and hold them accountable. Commission services at regional national levels, where appropriate, to create economies of scale and use the new pan ICB commissioning offices to ensure consistent, equitable access to care across England. Secondly, tackle workforce shortages. Invest an additional £2.4 million per year in grid and spin training for Paediatric Palliative medicine. Fund and implement safe staffing ratios for nurses and aim to employ those 4960 community
**** Possible New Speaker ****
nurses for England truly needs. Will she give way? I will give way. I thank my honourable friend for
**** Possible New Speaker ****
I thank my honourable friend for giving way and congratulate her on securing this debate. An amazing children's hospice that serves children's hospice that serves constituents in my patch is Demelza. They have an amazing array of staff, volunteers and the rest including Queens nurses like Donna Marl. Well, my honourable friend congratulate
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my honourable friend congratulate Donna on being a recipient of that award. And will she. Also. Congratulate fabulous fea, one of
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Congratulate fabulous fea, one of the children who served by the hospice for a book that has been written by her and encouraged the. Minister.
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Also to order a copy. Edit it. I thank my honourable
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Edit it. I thank my honourable friend for his intervention and for celebrating the work of Queens nurses and on fabulous field for nurses and on fabulous field for what she's done in writing a book, something that I'm not sure I could do. And so it's truly impressive. And obviously, I'm happy to encourage the minister to buy the book, and it sounds like I better book, and it sounds like I better buy it thick. So this is about real children, like Fabulous Fear.
It's about real families, and it's about about real families, and it's about real suffering that could be eased. Children's hospices provide £3.32 of Children's hospices provide £3.32 of care for every £1 invested by the state. That is extraordinary value. So they deserve more support. These children deserve dignity, comfort and skilled care, and their families deserve the support that only children's hospices can offer. I will give way I thank you, I thank you, thank you very much for giving way. And on that point, Madam Deputy Speaker, I would like to ask my honourable friend who is bringing forward this critical debate on children's hospices.
Well, whilst we're looking at children's hospice, this is also critically important for adult hospices as well. And in Cambridgeshire and in South Cambridgeshire. In my constituency we have the fabulous Arthur Ranke Hospice, which at the moment is looking towards the cutting of its adult hospice beds and the outcry from constituency members is huge. Would she agree that the ECB's could look at strategic commissioning of that care, both across adult as well as children, hospice beds? I thank my Honourable friend for her intervention and the campaigning she's doing on off the in Cambridgeshire with her colleagues.
She's right. I when I went to visit Chestnut Tree House in Sussex last week, they're talking to the adult hospices in the area as well about where that more strategic view can happen. So these children deserve dignity, comfort and skilled care, and their families deserve the support that only children's hospices can offer. So I ask, will this government truly support the vision laid out in the NHS ten year plan, where neighbourhood health centres, hospitals and hospices work together to deliver high quality end of life care in the community? Or will we continue to let these vital services be ignored, underfunded and unconnected? There is an opportunity for more action than this morning's announcement and for a longer term commitment.
I urge the Minister to do what is necessary and right, and ensure that no child is left without the care and the dignity they Kinnock.
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Thank you very much indeed, Madam Deputy Speaker, and I'd like to thank the honourable member for. Mid thank the honourable member for. Mid Sussex for securing this vitally important debate. I'd also like to take this opportunity to thank all take this opportunity to thank all those who work or volunteer in the palliative care and end of life care sector for their care and support,
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sector for their care and support, the compassion that they provide to patients, families and loved ones. When they need it most.
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When they need it most. This government wants a society where every child receives high quality, compassionate care from diagnosis through to the end of life. Irrespective of condition or life. Irrespective of condition or geographical location. In England, integrated care boards Rcb's are responsible for the commissioning of responsible for the commissioning of palliative care and end of life care services to meet the needs of their
The National Insurance rise has collectively cost Insurance rise has collectively cost them £500,000. Yes, the government has increased funding in cash terms, but it is simply not enough. Local NHS funding from integrated care NHS funding from integrated care boards remains 18% lower than it was three years ago, even as hospices three years ago, even as hospices stretched to meet rising demand, children's hospices are now dipping into their reserves to stay open in into their reserves to stay open in 2024, 25, 59% ended the year in 2024, 25, 59% ended the year in deficit in 2526.
That figure is expected to rise to a staggering expected to rise to a staggering 91%. This is clearly not sustainable. Meanwhile, a postcode lottery in funding continues. Recent FOI requests conducted by the charity together for Short Lives showed that some integrated care boards in London spent over £400 per child needing palliative care, while others spent less than £25 in the South East. We see this two one ICB spent over £260 per child, with another spending just over £100.
Only 32% of Iqbal could even say how many children accessed hospice care in their region. This gap in data must be filled. The announcement this morning suggested that funding being distributed via ICDs would tackle the postcode lottery issue. The results of these FOI would suggest that there is an awful long way to go. How will the Minister ensure that Icbc's commission children's hospice services equitably? What guidance will they be given to make sure that these vast variations in support are eliminated? If there is one thing that I want to emphasise, it is this that it is the people who are the beating heart of the hospice movement, highly qualified specialists, passionate volunteers and generous donors who all make the seemingly impossible happen.
But the workforce is in crisis. Incredibly, there are only 24 full time equivalent paediatric palliative medicine specialist that serve the entire UK. When we when we know that the need is for at least 40 to 60, if we followed the Royal College of Nursing's guidelines, we'd have nearly 5000 community children's nurses. Right now we have under a thousand. The professionals who care for our sickest children are being stretched to breaking point. So I urge the Minister and the government to build on today's announcement by firstly fixing the broken commissioning system.
Instruct NHS England and the departments and model what each local NHS body should be spending on palliative care and hold them accountable. Commission services at regional national levels, where appropriate, to create economies of scale and use the new pan ICB commissioning offices to ensure consistent, equitable access to care across England. Secondly, tackle workforce shortages. Invest an additional £2.4 million per year in grid and spin training for Paediatric Palliative medicine. Fund and implement safe staffing ratios for nurses and aim to employ those 4960 community
**** Possible New Speaker ****
nurses for England truly needs. Will she give way? I will give way. I thank my honourable friend for
**** Possible New Speaker ****
I thank my honourable friend for giving way and congratulate her on securing this debate. An amazing children's hospice that serves children's hospice that serves constituents in my patch is Demelza. They have an amazing array of staff, volunteers and the rest including Queens nurses like Donna Marl. Well, my honourable friend congratulate
**** Possible New Speaker ****
my honourable friend congratulate Donna on being a recipient of that award. And will she. Also. Congratulate fabulous fea, one of
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Congratulate fabulous fea, one of the children who served by the hospice for a book that has been written by her and encouraged the. Minister.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Also to order a copy. Edit it. I thank my honourable
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Edit it. I thank my honourable friend for his intervention and for celebrating the work of Queens nurses and on fabulous field for nurses and on fabulous field for what she's done in writing a book, something that I'm not sure I could do. And so it's truly impressive. And obviously, I'm happy to encourage the minister to buy the book, and it sounds like I better book, and it sounds like I better buy it thick. So this is about real children, like Fabulous Fear.
It's about real families, and it's about about real families, and it's about real suffering that could be eased. Children's hospices provide £3.32 of Children's hospices provide £3.32 of care for every £1 invested by the state. That is extraordinary value. So they deserve more support. These children deserve dignity, comfort and skilled care, and their families deserve the support that only children's hospices can offer. I will give way I thank you, I thank you, thank you very much for giving way. And on that point, Madam Deputy Speaker, I would like to ask my honourable friend who is bringing forward this critical debate on children's hospices.
Well, whilst we're looking at children's hospice, this is also critically important for adult hospices as well. And in Cambridgeshire and in South Cambridgeshire. In my constituency we have the fabulous Arthur Ranke Hospice, which at the moment is looking towards the cutting of its adult hospice beds and the outcry from constituency members is huge. Would she agree that the ECB's could look at strategic commissioning of that care, both across adult as well as children, hospice beds? I thank my Honourable friend for her intervention and the campaigning she's doing on off the in Cambridgeshire with her colleagues.
She's right. I when I went to visit Chestnut Tree House in Sussex last week, they're talking to the adult hospices in the area as well about where that more strategic view can happen. So these children deserve dignity, comfort and skilled care, and their families deserve the support that only children's hospices can offer. So I ask, will this government truly support the vision laid out in the NHS ten year plan, where neighbourhood health centres, hospitals and hospices work together to deliver high quality end of life care in the community? Or will we continue to let these vital services be ignored, underfunded and unconnected? There is an opportunity for more action than this morning's announcement and for a longer term commitment.
I urge the Minister to do what is necessary and right, and ensure that no child is left without the care and the dignity they Kinnock.
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Thank you very much indeed, Madam Deputy Speaker, and I'd like to thank the honourable member for. Mid thank the honourable member for. Mid Sussex for securing this vitally important debate. I'd also like to take this opportunity to thank all take this opportunity to thank all those who work or volunteer in the palliative care and end of life care sector for their care and support,
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sector for their care and support, the compassion that they provide to patients, families and loved ones. When they need it most.
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When they need it most. This government wants a society where every child receives high quality, compassionate care from diagnosis through to the end of life. Irrespective of condition or life. Irrespective of condition or geographical location. In England, integrated care boards Rcb's are responsible for the commissioning of responsible for the commissioning of palliative care and end of life care services to meet the needs of their
15:41
Stephen Kinnock MP, Minister of State (Department of Health and Social Care) (Aberafan Maesteg, Labour)
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Stephen Kinnock MP, Minister of State (Department of Health and Social Care) (Aberafan Maesteg, Labour)
services to meet the needs of their local populations. To support Ecbs in this duty. NHS England has published statutory guidance and service specifications. NHS England has also developed a palliative care and End of life care dashboard, which brings together all relevant local data in one place. The dashboard helps commissioners understand the palliative care and end of life care. Needs of their local population. Whilst the majority of palliative care and end of life care is provided by NHS
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staff and services. We recognise the vital part that voluntary sector organisations, including hospices. Also.
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Also. Play in providing support to people at end of life as well as their loved ones. In recognition of their loved ones. In recognition of this, we are supporting the hospice sector with a £100 million capital sector with a £100 million capital funding boost for eligible adult and children and young people's hospices in England to ensure that they have in England to ensure that they have the best physical environment for care. I am pleased that the first care.
I am pleased that the first £25 million tranche of that funding, which hospice UK kindly allocated
**** Possible New Speaker ****
which hospice UK kindly allocated and distributed to hospices throughout England, was fully. Spent by hospices.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
On capital projects. An additional £75 million has been transferred to hospice UK for onward transferred to hospice UK for onward allocation to individual hospices for use in the 2526 financial year, for use in the 2526 financial year, and I know that many hospices are already spending that funding this already spending that funding this year from the £100 million capital funding. Hospices in London and the funding. Hospices in London and the South East are receiving over £28 million. This includes over £4 million for children and Young million for children and Young people's hospices in London and the South East.
We are also providing £26 million in revenue funding to support children and young people's hospices for 2526. This is a continuation of the funding which until recently was known as the Children and Young People's Hospice Grant, from the £26 million revenue funding for 2526 children and Young people's Hospices in London and the South East are receiving almost £8.5 million. As confirmed in my written ministerial statement laid earlier today. I am delighted and proud to be in a position to announce that we will continue this centrally administered funding for the next three years of this spending review period.
This includes the 26, 27 to 2829 financial years, as well as 2526 each year. Children and Young People's Hospices in England will receive at least £26 million, adjusted for inflation from NHS England via their local economies. This amounts to at least £78 million over the next three years to support hospice care for children and young people. This mirrors current and previous year's transaction arrangements. In this, we are promoting a more consistent national approach and supporting commissioners in prioritising the palliative care and end of life care needs of their local population.
Further details on the delivery of this funding will follow in due course. This government's commitment to provide this much needed funding until the end of the spending review. Period recognises that the ability to plan for the long term is of vital importance to our children and young people's hospices. I'm proud that this government has removed the cliff edge of annual funding cycles, so that our children and young people's hospices will now be able to operate on the basis of far greater certainty and stability.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
I will. I thank the Minister for giving way, and I agree that increasing the way, and I agree that increasing the time period that this grant comes to children's hospices to three years will really, really help. Can the will really, really help. Can the Minister comment on whether there are plans to do the same for the adult hospice sector? Minister.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
I thank her for that intervention. She will know, of course, that. The situation on the children's grant is quite different to the way that we do it through with adult hospices, because there's with adult hospices, because there's always been this centralised grant for children's hospices, whereas the for children's hospices, whereas the funding for adult hospices goes through. ICB and is part of the through. ICB and is part of the broader budgeting and commissioning broader budgeting and commissioning process.
Clearly we will need to set a an overall financial framework for a an overall financial framework for adult hospices. We are currently going through the final stages of going through the final stages of negotiations, both with with the Treasury and within the Department for Health and Social Care, to for Health and Social Care, to finalise the financial envelopes and allocations for each part of my portfolio and the portfolio of my minister portfolios of my ministerial colleagues. What I would also say is that whilst the investment is really important, we think there's a there are big
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opportunities around reform. We feel around. Early identification.
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Early identification. Of people in need of palliative care and people reaching. End of life.
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End of life. The interface between hospitals and hospices. And primary care. Is nowhere. Near.
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Near. Where it needs to be. And so a big part of our neighbourhood health big part of our neighbourhood health strategy is going to be how do we ensure that hospices have a strong
**** Possible New Speaker ****
voice at the table in that holistic integrated planning, which is such an important part of the if you like, the. Journey that.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Journey that. All of this represents. So she made some powerful points in her speech about that. And we are
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speech about that. And we are looking at that. So, you know, as we speak, I'm meeting with officials to. Determine how.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Determine how. We reform the system, because it's not just about the money, it's also about how the system works. And also about how the system works. And we think there's huge room for improvement there. But on the point improvement there. But on the point of children's hospices, I was truly inspired to visit Noah's Ark Children's Hospice in Barnet yesterday to understand the key issues that they're facing and to see how our three year funding
**** Possible New Speaker ****
see how our three year funding commitment will support them to continue delivering essential palliative care. And end of.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Life care services to children and young people in their community, and chatting with the Chief Executive yesterday, it was very clear to me how pleased she was that she was going to be able to have
**** Possible New Speaker ****
she was going to be able to have some stability and. Certainty in. Planning, both in terms of staffing and services. That are provided.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
That are provided. At Noah's Ark. It's a wonderful place and. I pay tribute to everybody that.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Works there and to the families, of course. And we recognise the challenges and the palliative care in the palliative care and end of in the palliative care and end of life care sector, and particularly the challenges that hospices face. The department and NHS England are The department and NHS England are currently looking at how to improve the access, quality and sustainability of all age palliative
**** Possible New Speaker ****
care and end of life care in. Line with our. Ten year health plan, the government and the NHS will closely monitor the shift towards strategic commissioning of palliative care and end of life care services to ensure end of life care services to ensure that services reduce variation in access and quality, although some variation may be appropriate to variation may be appropriate to reflect both innovation and the needs of local populations. Officials will present, as I was Officials will present, as I was saying earlier, will present further proposals to myself over the coming months outlining the drivers and
**** Possible New Speaker ****
months outlining the drivers and incentives that are. Required in. Palliative care and end of life care to enable the shift from hospital to community, including as part of neighbourhood health teams. Furthermore, through the National Institute for Health and Care Research, the department is investing £3 million in a policy research unit in palliative and end of life care. This unit launched in January 2024 and is building the evidence base on palliative care and end of life care, with a specific focus on inequalities and ironing out the regional variations that the Honourable lady rightly pointed to.
So I hope that these measures and our plans reassure honourable members of this government's rock solid commitment to building a sustainable palliative care and end of life care sector for the long term. We, alongside key partners NHS England and others, will continue to proactively engage with our stakeholders, including the voluntary sector and independent hospices, on an ongoing basis in order to understand the issues that they face. We will continue working with NHS England in supporting Ecbs to effectively commission the palliative care and end of life care needed by their local populations.
I would therefore, once again like to reiterate my thanks to honourable members and to the honourable member for Mid Sussex for bringing this vital issue before the House, as well as to all those members who've intervened and who I know are passionately committed on behalf of
**** Possible New Speaker ****
their constituents to this issue. Thank you very much, Madam Deputy Speaker. The question is that this House
**** Possible New Speaker ****
The question is that this House do now adjourn. All those in favour do now adjourn. All those in favour say I. The ayes have it. Order.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
staff and services. We recognise the vital part that voluntary sector organisations, including hospices. Also.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Also. Play in providing support to people at end of life as well as their loved ones. In recognition of their loved ones. In recognition of this, we are supporting the hospice sector with a £100 million capital sector with a £100 million capital funding boost for eligible adult and children and young people's hospices in England to ensure that they have in England to ensure that they have the best physical environment for care. I am pleased that the first care.
I am pleased that the first £25 million tranche of that funding, which hospice UK kindly allocated
**** Possible New Speaker ****
which hospice UK kindly allocated and distributed to hospices throughout England, was fully. Spent by hospices.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
On capital projects. An additional £75 million has been transferred to hospice UK for onward transferred to hospice UK for onward allocation to individual hospices for use in the 2526 financial year, for use in the 2526 financial year, and I know that many hospices are already spending that funding this already spending that funding this year from the £100 million capital funding. Hospices in London and the funding. Hospices in London and the South East are receiving over £28 million. This includes over £4 million for children and Young million for children and Young people's hospices in London and the South East.
We are also providing £26 million in revenue funding to support children and young people's hospices for 2526. This is a continuation of the funding which until recently was known as the Children and Young People's Hospice Grant, from the £26 million revenue funding for 2526 children and Young people's Hospices in London and the South East are receiving almost £8.5 million. As confirmed in my written ministerial statement laid earlier today. I am delighted and proud to be in a position to announce that we will continue this centrally administered funding for the next three years of this spending review period.
This includes the 26, 27 to 2829 financial years, as well as 2526 each year. Children and Young People's Hospices in England will receive at least £26 million, adjusted for inflation from NHS England via their local economies. This amounts to at least £78 million over the next three years to support hospice care for children and young people. This mirrors current and previous year's transaction arrangements. In this, we are promoting a more consistent national approach and supporting commissioners in prioritising the palliative care and end of life care needs of their local population.
Further details on the delivery of this funding will follow in due course. This government's commitment to provide this much needed funding until the end of the spending review. Period recognises that the ability to plan for the long term is of vital importance to our children and young people's hospices. I'm proud that this government has removed the cliff edge of annual funding cycles, so that our children and young people's hospices will now be able to operate on the basis of far greater certainty and stability.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
I will. I thank the Minister for giving way, and I agree that increasing the way, and I agree that increasing the time period that this grant comes to children's hospices to three years will really, really help. Can the will really, really help. Can the Minister comment on whether there are plans to do the same for the adult hospice sector? Minister.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
I thank her for that intervention. She will know, of course, that. The situation on the children's grant is quite different to the way that we do it through with adult hospices, because there's with adult hospices, because there's always been this centralised grant for children's hospices, whereas the for children's hospices, whereas the funding for adult hospices goes through. ICB and is part of the through. ICB and is part of the broader budgeting and commissioning broader budgeting and commissioning process.
Clearly we will need to set a an overall financial framework for a an overall financial framework for adult hospices. We are currently going through the final stages of going through the final stages of negotiations, both with with the Treasury and within the Department for Health and Social Care, to for Health and Social Care, to finalise the financial envelopes and allocations for each part of my portfolio and the portfolio of my minister portfolios of my ministerial colleagues. What I would also say is that whilst the investment is really important, we think there's a there are big
**** Possible New Speaker ****
opportunities around reform. We feel around. Early identification.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Early identification. Of people in need of palliative care and people reaching. End of life.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
End of life. The interface between hospitals and hospices. And primary care. Is nowhere. Near.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Near. Where it needs to be. And so a big part of our neighbourhood health big part of our neighbourhood health strategy is going to be how do we ensure that hospices have a strong
**** Possible New Speaker ****
voice at the table in that holistic integrated planning, which is such an important part of the if you like, the. Journey that.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Journey that. All of this represents. So she made some powerful points in her speech about that. And we are
**** Possible New Speaker ****
speech about that. And we are looking at that. So, you know, as we speak, I'm meeting with officials to. Determine how.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Determine how. We reform the system, because it's not just about the money, it's also about how the system works. And also about how the system works. And we think there's huge room for improvement there. But on the point improvement there. But on the point of children's hospices, I was truly inspired to visit Noah's Ark Children's Hospice in Barnet yesterday to understand the key issues that they're facing and to see how our three year funding
**** Possible New Speaker ****
see how our three year funding commitment will support them to continue delivering essential palliative care. And end of.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Life care services to children and young people in their community, and chatting with the Chief Executive yesterday, it was very clear to me how pleased she was that she was going to be able to have
**** Possible New Speaker ****
she was going to be able to have some stability and. Certainty in. Planning, both in terms of staffing and services. That are provided.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
That are provided. At Noah's Ark. It's a wonderful place and. I pay tribute to everybody that.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Works there and to the families, of course. And we recognise the challenges and the palliative care in the palliative care and end of in the palliative care and end of life care sector, and particularly the challenges that hospices face. The department and NHS England are The department and NHS England are currently looking at how to improve the access, quality and sustainability of all age palliative
**** Possible New Speaker ****
care and end of life care in. Line with our. Ten year health plan, the government and the NHS will closely monitor the shift towards strategic commissioning of palliative care and end of life care services to ensure end of life care services to ensure that services reduce variation in access and quality, although some variation may be appropriate to variation may be appropriate to reflect both innovation and the needs of local populations. Officials will present, as I was Officials will present, as I was saying earlier, will present further proposals to myself over the coming months outlining the drivers and
**** Possible New Speaker ****
months outlining the drivers and incentives that are. Required in. Palliative care and end of life care to enable the shift from hospital to community, including as part of neighbourhood health teams. Furthermore, through the National Institute for Health and Care Research, the department is investing £3 million in a policy research unit in palliative and end of life care. This unit launched in January 2024 and is building the evidence base on palliative care and end of life care, with a specific focus on inequalities and ironing out the regional variations that the Honourable lady rightly pointed to.
So I hope that these measures and our plans reassure honourable members of this government's rock solid commitment to building a sustainable palliative care and end of life care sector for the long term. We, alongside key partners NHS England and others, will continue to proactively engage with our stakeholders, including the voluntary sector and independent hospices, on an ongoing basis in order to understand the issues that they face. We will continue working with NHS England in supporting Ecbs to effectively commission the palliative care and end of life care needed by their local populations.
I would therefore, once again like to reiterate my thanks to honourable members and to the honourable member for Mid Sussex for bringing this vital issue before the House, as well as to all those members who've intervened and who I know are passionately committed on behalf of
**** Possible New Speaker ****
their constituents to this issue. Thank you very much, Madam Deputy Speaker. The question is that this House
**** Possible New Speaker ****
The question is that this House do now adjourn. All those in favour do now adjourn. All those in favour say I. The ayes have it. Order.