Commons Chamber

Tuesday 25th November 2025

(began 1 month, 2 weeks ago)

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Wes Streeting Portrait Rt Hon Wes Streeting MP, Secretary of State for Health and Social Care (Ilford North, Labour)
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Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I'm proud to see this government's improvements to GP services making a real difference locally. With over 2000 more GPS hired and new investment already reaching investment already reaching practices like general surgery in Farnborough. However, many of my older and more vulnerable constituents still tell me they're struggling to get through on GP phone lines, especially as more practices move online. What steps practices move online. What steps is the Secretary of State taking to ensure phone lines remain accessible to those who rely on accessible to those who rely on them, so that everyone benefits from our NHS health plan? So stay well? it.

We've got a doctor in the house who's phone was alive as this very issue was raised by my hon. Friend. Such is the commitment of doctors in our NHS to be available to patients wherever and whenever they are needed. This Labour government was elected on a pledge to end the scramble, and that is exactly what we're doing. We know that not everyone wants to contact their practice online. That's why practices must offer patients the option to telephone or visit in option to telephone or visit in person, in person, in addition to online access.

But I do want to thank GPS up and down the country for the work they're doing, the progress we're making and improving online access, improving access generally and improving patient satisfaction. Lots done. Lots to do.
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None Portrait Q5. What steps his Department is taking to reduce the number of people waiting for NHS treatment. (906529)
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hon. Friend is absolutely right. More patients are waiting a year for treatment in Scotland and the entire south west of England. And
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Luke Evans Portrait Dr Luke Evans MP (Hinckley and Bosworth, Conservative)
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Yes, I can give him that guarantee. The last government could have learnt the lessons of some of those, those PFI schemes that were very costly and didn't run. And why didn't they learn those lessons? Why didn't they take action to reverse some of that decline? Why didn't they take control of the system and do something about it? We have learnt the lessons from those schemes, thanks in part to the great work thanks in part to the great work done by parliamentarians on committees like Public Accounts Committee.

We have learned those lessons. The new system to build lessons. The new system to build the new neighbourhood health centres, which are fundamental to our drive to shift care at hospital, will be different and they will be publicly owned. They will revert to the public. They are fundamentally different. I'm very happy to talk different. I'm very happy to talk about it in more detail. So stay. first of all commend my hon. Friend for not just leading the recent International Men's Day debate, but also for his courage in speaking so openly about his own experience of sexual assault and the need to sexual assault and the need to tackle the stigma surrounding it.

For too long, Men's Health has been overlooked, with a reluctance to accept that men suffer specific inequalities and hardships. As men and boys, we know men are less likely to come forward for likely to come forward for healthcare. So from partnering with the Premier League to rolling out health support in the workplace, we're meeting men and boys where we're meeting men and boys where they are and supporting them to live longer, healthier lives.
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None Portrait Ministerial statement: G20 and Ukraine
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always said our A must be a just and lasting peace. And both of those words, Mr. Speaker, are important, just and lasting. So, Mr. Speaker, I welcome the continued efforts of the United States to end the war and stop the killing. The initial draft of the 28 point plan included points that were not acceptable, but also some very important elements that will be essential for a just and lasting peace. For example, it sets out steps on security guarantees from the US and partners.

This is very significant, and the discussions in Geneva took important steps forward with progress between the US and Ukraine on an updated peace framework. I can reassure the House that work is ongoing to refine this plan. And, Mr. Speaker, we are clear about the fundamental principles here that Ukraine's sovereignty must be maintained, that Ukraine should be able to defend herself in future, and that matters about Ukraine and its future must be determined by Ukraine. We are clear their voice must always be at the heart of the process and elements relating to Europe and NATO will need the consent of Europe and NATO members.

So there's still a long way to go and a tough road ahead. But we're more committed than ever to this cause and to keeping pushing forward on this process. And that's why, Mr. Speaker, later this afternoon, President Macron, Chancellor Mertz and I will convene the coalition of the willing, which now has 36 members, to discuss how we can advance the peace process and to discuss how we can continue to keep Ukraine in the fight. Right now, because, Mr.

Speaker, Ukraine continues to hold the line. They continue to mount a fearless defence of their country. And they deserve not just our respect, but our help and our support. After all, it is not just our values that are at risk here. It's our security too. In addition to targeting energy and food prices, Putin continues to seek to undermine our security, including Mr Speaker, by sending Russian ships into our waters. The Royal Navy intercepted two Russian ships in our waters in the last two weeks.

So let me assure the House we are more ready and determined than ever to protect our territory and protect the British people. As we work towards that end. We will never let up on the support that Ukraine needs, the vital defensive capabilities it needs to protect its people and the economic pressure that we must continue to mount on Russia to cut off the fuel to their war machine. Mr. speaker, the urgent need to take Russian oil and gas off the global market was something I discussed extensively at the G20.

This is vital, especially now as winter begins to bite in Ukraine and Putin continues his barbaric attacks on civilians and civilian energy infrastructure. Because, Mr. Speaker, as this House knows, and the British people know, there is only one nation that wants this war. Only one nation that launched this illegal invasion, and only one nation that deploys a constant barrage aimed at murdering innocent civilians. We saw that again last night, Mr. Speaker, with Russia's strikes on Kyiv.

Indeed, in the last week before last night, Russia launched over 1200 drones and over 60 cruise and ballistic missiles at Ukraine, killing children like seven year old Amelia, a Polish citizen killed alongside her mother by a Russian missile in Ternopil last Wednesday, an attack that took 34 lives in total. And Mr. Speaker, last night as a family, we celebrated my daughter's 15th birthday. Later, I saw images on the news of a young girl about the same age being pulled from the rubble of a building in Ukraine where her mother had just been killed.

It's abhorrent. It's beyond belief. Yet Ukraine lives this same story every night in their cities and every day on the front line, where so many Ukrainians are killed fighting for their freedom. And, Mr. Speaker, we should not forget that Putin's aggression is illegal actions and his total disregard for human life has taken a huge toll on his own people. Thousands of Russian soldiers are killed every single day. 100,000 have been killed attacking Donetsk. In total, more than 1 million Russians have been killed or injured, all because of the depraved ambitions of one man.

So, Mr. Speaker, we say again, this country will never falter in our support for the Ukrainian people. We will maintain a unity of purpose with our allies, and we will focus on delivering the calm, serious leadership that is needed to advance a just and lasting peace for Ukraine, Ukraine, and indeed for the whole of Europe. Mr. speaker, let me now turn to my broader discussions at the G20. I took the opportunity in South Africa to raise the ongoing and utterly horrifying situation in Sudan.

We are working with our partners to break the restrictions on humanitarian aid and demand accountability. We must rally global pressure to stop the slaughter, achieve a sustained ceasefire and ultimately to deliver a transition to civilian rule. Mr. speaker, in South Africa, I also chaired the Global Fund replenishment alongside President Ramaphosa, leading the charge in the global fight against Aids, TB and malaria. Work that has already saved over 70 million lives. Yet Mr Speaker malaria still kills a child under the age of five.

Nearly every minute. 4000 adolescent girls and young women still contract HIV every week, and TB remains the world's single deadliest infectious disease. Even though we've had a cure for nearly a century, so we will keep driving this project forward because it's the right thing to do, and because it helps protect the United Kingdom from future pandemics and health emergencies. Mr. speaker, a central priority at the G20 was delivering economic security and opportunity, as it is at every international meeting I attend.

A strong economy allows us to be strong in the world. Economic security is national security. So, Mr. Speaker, I can tell the House we delivered for the British people this weekend, including deals with South Africa, for British firms to upgrade their railways and submarines. A £370 million deal for Rolls-Royce to supply jet engines to Algeria, and a 4 billion deal with Indonesia for new ships delivering 1000 jobs in Rosyth, Plymouth and Bristol. And delivering upon my say another rebuke, rebuke to all the people who prematurely wrote off British shipbuilding.

Mr. speaker, we can only achieve these things. We can only deliver for the British people by working with our partners. And I think this is a moment to raise our sights. Mr. speaker, the House will recall that it was when the global financial crisis struck that the G20 showed its full potential. When my predecessor, Gordon Brown, marshalled a global response to that crisis to protect the savings of finances of the British people. And so, in this moment of growing fragility and crisis around the world, it is time once again to take a more purposeful, unified approach focussed on global growth and stability.

I called for a response based on the right balance of investment and fiscal discipline, open markets, reforming the global trading system and tackling the cost of living crisis. That approach was echoed by the Leaders Declaration from Johannesburg. Mr. speaker, I am also pleased to say that the summit confirmed that the UK will take on the presidency of the G20 in 2027, the first time it has returned to the UK since 2009. It will be a proud moment for our country.

Part of our work to restore Britain's international leadership, which was neglected for so long. And we will use that presidency to drive the agenda that I have been talking about today, to drive growth and opportunity to create jobs, cut the cost of living and fundamentally strengthen the economic security of the British people. That is what we are doing at home and abroad. And I commend this statement to the House.

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Kemi Badenoch the Leader of the Opposition. Mr. speaker. Can I thank the Prime Minister

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Can I thank the Prime Minister for advance sight of his statement? We are proud to stand shoulder to shoulder with Ukraine and our shoulder with Ukraine and our support remains unwavering. Ukraine is battling the most flagrant breach of territorial integrity in Europe in recent times. We must never forget that this war was never forget that this war was started by Putin, who is trying to extinguish a democracy on our own continent. It is important that we stand together to defend the principle that aggressors should principle that aggressors should not succeed.

The previous conservative government led Europe in support for Ukraine. We were the in support for Ukraine. We were the first country to provide modern Western main battle tanks, and to gift munitions and Storm Shadow gift munitions and Storm Shadow missiles. We led the way on sanctions and trained tens of thousands of Ukrainian soldiers on thousands of Ukrainian soldiers on UK soil. It is now incumbent on this government to leverage British
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Kemi Badenoch Portrait Rt Hon Kemi Badenoch MP (North West Essex, Conservative)
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influence at this crucial time for the West. Putins relentless bombardment of Kyiv and KGB style negotiating tactics show he is not serious about peace, which is why Russia must not be welcomed back into the international fold without a comprehensive peace agreement. So will the Prime Minister rule out support for Readmitting Russia to the G7?

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Yeah, yeah, yeah. We all want this terrible war to end. And as the Prime Minister end. And as the Prime Minister rightly said, elements of that draft 28 point plan were unacceptable. Conservatives are unacceptable. Conservatives are clear that the blanket surrender of Ukrainian territory would mean rewarding Putin's unprovoked aggression. What is the government's position on reports that Ukraine's territorial that Ukraine's territorial integrity is on the table? Because if Putin is seen to emerge stronger from these negotiations, all our potential adversaries will be emboldened.

Be in no doubt. Mr. emboldened. Be in no doubt. Mr. speaker, the axis of authoritarian states is collaborating to destabilise the West, aided by destabilise the West, aided by China, with Iran providing weapons and North Korea providing troops and North Korea providing troops for Putin. It is precisely for these reasons that the government must continue to work extremely must continue to work extremely closely with the US, and to understand their objectives. understand their objectives. Parties like the Lib Dems and the Greens, who are encouraging us to decouple from the US, are putting their anti-American prejudice above national security.

But Mr. Speaker, national security. But Mr. Speaker, given that in the last fortnight the Royal Navy has intercepted two Russian ships in our waters, and with Russian spy ships pointing lasers at RAF pilots, it is a disgrace that reform are still blaming NATO for Russia's aggression, although perhaps it should come as no surprise when their former leader in Wales was sent to prison last week for taking bribes from Putin. Earlier this year. Earlier this year, Mr. Speaker, many countries came together to form the coalition of the willing, pledging to strengthen support for Ukraine.

Can the Prime Minister update us on the planning and readiness of the coalition of the willing? What is its scope and terms of mission? And what can the Prime Minister tell us about a counter-proposal that is reportedly being submitted by the EU? Mr. speaker, to stand with Ukraine, we need to know we can also stand on our own two feet. Last week, the Commons Defence Select Committee warned that Britain is unprepared for a major attack and the government is making glacial progress towards conflict readiness.

So it is concerning that reports indicate the MoD faces a potential budget cut this financial year of £2.6 billion. Can the Prime Minister confirm whether this is true or false? Meanwhile, the EU is reportedly demanding nearly 7 billion for the UK to buy into its defence fund. Conservatives warned that this would happen. At the time the UQ reset deal was being negotiated. The shadow defence secretary said that Labour had given away 12 years of British fishing rights in exchange for nothing.

He was right. Will the Prime Minister rule out paying the EU for access to safe? Mr. speaker, it is extremely disappointing that Europe is still buying Russian oil and gas. Moscow should be denied safe harbours for its tankers and profits, and Europe should ban Russian oil and gas sooner than its current 2027 deadline. I believe the Prime Minister agrees with that sentiment. So what pressure will he put on European countries to stop them buying Russian oil and gas? Mr.

speaker, the UK's genuinely world leading support has made a material difference to Ukraine's ability to fight back against Russia's illegal invasion. Support that, I will remind the Prime Minister, began under the Conservatives. Let's not forget that in 2022, Russia thought it could capture Kyiv and subjugate Ukraine within days. So let's wake up and face that threat from Russia. So finally, can the Prime Minister reassure the House that we will be boosting our own defence capabilities, as well as using our

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influence to ensure that secure future for Ukraine? Mr. Well.

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Well. Can I start by thanking her for her support on Ukraine? I think it is really important that we stay united in this House. And can I readily acknowledge the role of the readily acknowledge the role of the previous government in leading on Ukraine and in fact, in bringing the whole House together on this the whole House together on this issue? Which it did for a number of years and allowed us a platform on which to build the support that we which to build the support that we are now putting in place in relation to membership of the G7.

relation to membership of the G7. G8 look, the focus at the moment is on a ceasefire, so anything along on a ceasefire, so anything along those lines is a long way off. But, you know, we have to remember that Putin is the aggressor here. He is the one who started this war on territorial integrity. The territorial integrity. The sovereignty of Ukraine is paramount. And that's why any questions about the future of Ukraine must be the future of Ukraine must be determined by Ukraine.

And that is why I've been speaking frequently
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Keir Starmer Portrait Rt Hon Sir Keir Starmer MP, The Prime Minister (Holborn and St Pancras, Labour)
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why I've been speaking frequently to both President Trump and President Zelensky, president Zelensky, probably 5 or 6 times in the last 2 or 3 days on a whole range of issues. Can I join her? The in her comments about reform, because that a senior official, the leader in Wales, has been jailed for over ten years and very significant sentence for pro-Russia bribes. That is extraordinary. And that is why I say, and I say again, there should be that reform.

Leadership should

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have the courage to launch an investigation. How on earth did that happen in that. Party.

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And what are the links are there. But today and this statement and the question across the House will reinforce once again that reform with their pro-Putin approach would have absolutely no role in bringing allies together on important issues across the board. Mr. speaker, she she asks about the coalition of the willing. Nine months ago, President willing. Nine months ago, President Macron and I brought the coalition willing together. There are now 36 like minded countries that meet and discuss frequently and align our positions and our support.

That is a considerable achievement. And we have plans in relation to security have plans in relation to security guarantees in relation to air, sea and and land. Mr. speaker, on the and and land. Mr. speaker, on the on the text of the agreement that's being worked on in Geneva, the view there was an intensive discussion about this, as she would have about this, as she would have expected at the G20, involving a number of key allies, both the E3 number of key allies, both the E3 plus key coalition, willing allies.

And the strong consensus was that we should work with the text that's in existence unacceptable, though some parts of it are, because other parts are essential rather than a different text. And that is the process that's going on in Geneva. And I think that's the right approach on defence spending. I've made my position clear, and it goes with the strategic review of defence, as well as to how we take that forward. The safe negotiations are going on with the EU in the usual way, and one of the commitments I made in relation to our reset with the EU was that we would do it by quiet diplomacy, rather than shouting from megaphones across the channel on oil and gas, she asks.

And this is really important. We are taking every opportunity to have extensive discussions, to take Russian oil and gas off the market. This has to be done across Europe. It has to be done beyond Europe. There are discussions I've had beyond Europe on this issue. It is vital that we press ahead and we are doing so and taking every opportunity. But can I return to where I started? I do genuinely think it's important in this House that we're united on Ukraine.

The only winner, if we divide on party political grounds, will be Putin. And I again recognise the the work and the lead that the previous government took, which I was proud to support in opposition. I'm proud to take that forward as Prime Minister. I'm

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grateful for the support that we're getting from the opposition. Chair of the Select Committee,

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Chair of the Select Committee, Dame Emily Thornberry. Thank you very much. Mr. Speaker. Can I begin by complimenting the Prime Minister on his work on the international stage? But I'll ask him, is he aware that yesterday a him, is he aware that yesterday a statement was put out by the 22 chairs of the Foreign Affairs committees, from parliaments, from across the whole of Europe, and we across the whole of Europe, and we made it clear that we are united in the belief that Ukraine's sovereignty is not just vitally sovereignty is not just vitally important for brave Ukrainians, but it is vital for the continued security of Europe, too.

And so we security of Europe, too. And so we are very pleased to hear from the Prime Minister when he assures the House that any plan that is to be agreed will be nothing about Ukraine without Ukraine. But can you also assure the House there

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you also assure the House there will be nothing about Europe without Europe? Well, can I thank her for her

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Well, can I thank her for her question but also reassure her? I did see that letter that was put did see that letter that was put out yesterday, and she's absolutely right that this conflict affects
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Daisy Cooper Portrait Daisy Cooper MP (St Albans, Liberal Democrat)
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this House agree with him in unequivocally ruling out any proposals that limit Ukraine's sovereignty to defend itself now or sovereignty to defend itself now or in the future must be ruled out, including its right to join defence including its right to join defence alliances like NATO. Mr. speaker, will the Prime Minister also offer his support and that of the his support and that of the coalition of willing to join President Zelensky for any future negotiations with President Trump, negotiations with President Trump, so President Zelensky doesn't have to suffer the indignity of being bullied by Trump on his own once bullied by Trump on his own once again, and so that Europe can show a strong and united stand.

Mr. a strong and united stand. Mr. speaker, the Prime Minister is absolutely right to request that reform UK conducts an investigation reform UK conducts an investigation into pro-Russian bribes. Can I ask the Prime Minister whether he will the Prime Minister whether he will also then commission a second Russia report into Russian Russia report into Russian interference in our democracy? My hon. Friend for Bicester and Woodstock has brought forward a bill enabling the unilateral seizure of Russian state assets in the UK.

Can the Prime Minister confirm whether, in his discussions with G20 partners, he has secured any progress on plans to seize any progress on plans to seize those frozen Russian assets? And if not, why not? Mr. speaker, on Sudan, will the Prime Minister use his role as the penholder for Sudan to take the lead at the United Nations to secure and enforce a country wide arms embargo? And finally, the Prime Minister did not mention China, despite reports that the Prime Minister met with the Chinese premier at the G20.

The apparent imminent approval of Chinese super embassy would be a moment of shame for this government. So will the Prime Minister block this application and summon the Chinese ambassador to make clear that we will not accept Beijing's efforts to spy on our Parliament, nor will

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we accept their efforts to intimidate and harass Hongkongers in our communities. The Prime.

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The Prime. Minister well, can I start by thanking her for her support in relation to Ukraine support, which relation to Ukraine support, which is important, and certainly I'll make a point this afternoon that the coalition are willing of the coalition are willing of expressing how united this House is in relation to the key principles in relation to the key principles in relation to her point about President Zelensky. We are, I think, President Zelensky. We are, I think, the closest ally of Ukraine in terms of respected and trusted.

And terms of respected and trusted. And that is why not only have I spoken intensively and extensively to intensively and extensively to President Zelensky over many, many months and years, but in particular over the last few days, a number of over the last few days, a number of times, sometimes a day, including this morning, in order to do what we can to guide this into the right we can to guide this into the right place in relation to reform. I completely agree with her comments.

completely agree with her comments. It is extraordinary that in this chamber we're having a debate about a war which Russia has perpetrated
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Keir Starmer Portrait Rt Hon Sir Keir Starmer MP, The Prime Minister (Holborn and St Pancras, Labour)
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a war which Russia has perpetrated on Ukraine, and a senior member of reform is convicted of pro-Russian bribes in relation to interference with democracy. It is of deep concern on the assets. We are having extensive discussions about this, including at the G20 and elsewhere, in relation to what more can be done and making progress. It's not straightforward, as she will know, but it is the subject of very extensive discussions to see what more we can do.

And in relation to, well, firstly, the Chinese Premier, let me just be clear. I said hello and shook the hand of the Chinese Premier at the G20. We're in the leaders lounge together. It would have been little bizarre and discourteous not to have done so, but we didn't actually engage in any substantive discussion. She raises the question of the embassy. That's obviously a quasi judicial decision that will

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be taken in accordance with those processes. Tanmanjeet Singh Dhesi chair of the Select Committee. Thank you.

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Thank you. Very much. I welcome the Prime Minister's update statement. To the House. But, Mr. Speaker, let's be under no illusion. President Trump's originally proposed peace plan is humiliating proposed peace plan is humiliating and unpalatable to the Ukrainians, would actually be detrimental to would actually be detrimental to our own European security, and would reward the invading, annexing would reward the invading, annexing aggressor. And that's why yesterday, the cross-party House of Commons Defence Committee issued a very Defence Committee issued a very robust statement calling on the government to urgently give full government to urgently give full moral, practical and full support in whatever way that it could, especially diplomatically, to our especially diplomatically, to our Ukrainian friends.

But would the Prime Minister agree that at this critical juncture, it is imperative critical juncture, it is imperative that the UK, along with its European allies, shows clear and European allies, shows clear and determined leadership is actually around the table to negotiate so
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Stella Creasy Portrait Ms Stella Creasy MP (Walthamstow, Labour )
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Because this situation also reminds.

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Us that we have to get the European defence industry. Into a shape where. It can face. The threats.

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The threats. We face from countries. Like Russia. And the UK. Must be part of. Those conversations to.

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Those conversations to. I can assure you that negotiations are going on in the ordinary way in relation to safety, a number of other issues. Mr. a number of other issues. Mr. speaker, what I'm endeavouring to do is just to get the best information I can in relation to what is developing, and I'll weave what is developing, and I'll weave it into an answer if I get anything that will help the house, I'll that will help the house, I'll certainly come back.

But if I'm able to update the house as we go along, I'll endeavour to do so so

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along, I'll endeavour to do so so that others can then ask questions about that. Calum Miller. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I welcome the Prime Minister's. Commitment to ensuring that

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Commitment to ensuring that decisions about Ukraine will not be taken without Ukraine and to upholding Ukraine's sovereignty. Yet we know that Russia is trying Yet we know that Russia is trying to use this negotiation to undermine not only Ukraine, but Europe's future security. So in Europe's future security. So in light of the negotiations ongoing, will the Prime Minister confirm that any future deal will reject Russia's references to, and I quote, Russia's references to, and I quote, ambiguities over the last 30 years, which is code for unravelling NATO which is code for unravelling NATO back to 1997 and reject attempts to determine which nations may join NATO, or where NATO may put its
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Keir Starmer Portrait Rt Hon Sir Keir Starmer MP, The Prime Minister (Holborn and St Pancras, Labour)
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At the. Treacherous actions of the former leader of reform in Wales. Who lined. His own pockets.

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His own pockets. regime? And does he agree that reform UK's refusal to carry out a full

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investigation just proves they really are Putin's poodles? We're here. Well, can I agree with him? This

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Well, can I agree with him? This is clearly a really serious. If any other party would want to other party would want to investigate to assure itself that, how did this happen? This is not a minor transgression. This is something that has now been visited with a ten year sentence, because it undermines our country. Surely the reform leadership will want to know how did that happen on their know how did that happen on their watch? And also what other links are there between their party and are there between their party and Russia? No wonder, no wonder their Putin friendly.

How on earth could they respond to a situation like let alone rejoining the G7? Mr. speaker, have we not seen this film before? Do we not know how it ends? before? Do we not know how it ends? Yes. this. That is why it is really important that we make the case for and ensure that it's a just and lasting peace, because we have seen this before, we've seen agreements brokered before without security guarantees, with the inevitable result that Putin will go again.

And that's why, in relation to all of the principles I've been operating on, setting up the operating on, setting up the coalition, willing and in all my discussions, it's got to be a just and lasting peace. It's got to be and lasting peace. It's got to be one that actually deters Putin from doing this again, because we know that without that deterrence, without those consequences, he has the ambition to go again, and he will go again. And we must guard against that.
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Mark Pritchard Portrait Rt Hon Mark Pritchard MP (The Wrekin, Conservative)
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country, and indeed Ukraine, that President Trump's very bad 28 point plan is not now replaced by a bad 19 point plan, because we all know from history that both Ukraine, Europe, the United Kingdom and even our allies, the United States, will rue the day that we roll over for Putin. Because if we reward the aggressor, we know that history tells us they come back for more. Yes.

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Can I thank him? And I my instinct is with him. The breaking instinct is with him. The breaking news. I spoke to President Zelenskyy about four hours ago, and Zelenskyy about four hours ago, and I've obviously spoken to him extensively. So I've got a pretty good sense of where he's at on this. I'm intending to speak to him again I'm intending to speak to him again this afternoon, but I think I'm sorry. Well, my own my instinct is that this probably isn't anything of greater significance than what was coming out of yesterday.

If it is, of course, I'll make a further statement. But I spoke to him this statement. But I spoke to him this morning and got a very clear sense of where he's at. I'm intending to speak to him again this afternoon. We've got the coalition willing. If We've got the coalition willing. If there is anything, I will of course, update the House. But he's right to caution the underlying point he caution the underlying point he makes, which is that we must hold to the principle that matters about the future of Ukraine are for the future of Ukraine are for Ukraine, and that means we must be engaging as extensively as we are
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Keir Starmer Portrait Rt Hon Sir Keir Starmer MP, The Prime Minister (Holborn and St Pancras, Labour)
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engaging as extensively as we are with the President and Ukrainians to make sure that every step of the way we are taking into account, in a practical sense that matters for Ukraine must be for Ukraine. That can only happen if we're talking to

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them in the way that we are. Peter Swallow. Thank you. Madam may refer members to my register of interest

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members to my register of interest and thank the Prime Minister for the leadership he has shown on Ukraine. Here, here. Here, here. Madam Deputy Speaker,

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Here, here. Madam Deputy Speaker, year six students from Saint Margaret Clitherow School in Bracknell have written to me to Bracknell have written to me to express their deep concern about the ongoing crisis we're seeing in Sudan. So can I thank the Prime Sudan. So can I thank the Prime Minister for his leadership at the G20 on this conflict, and ask him what message he has for Saint

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what message he has for Saint Margaret Clitherow students who are concerned about this, this deep tragedy? Well.

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Well. Can you please pass the message back to them to say thank you for raising this? It is important that they've done so. And the fact that they raised it with him means it's been now raised through him on the been now raised through him on the floor of this house. So they're directly inputting into our democracy and accountability and assure them that we are working assure them that we are working with partners to bring out, bring about an end to the appalling
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Keir Starmer Portrait Rt Hon Sir Keir Starmer MP, The Prime Minister (Holborn and St Pancras, Labour)
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That concludes a statement, and I'll give the House a few moments In.

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Cop 30, Secretary of State. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker, with permission, I would like to make a statement about the Cop 30 climate summit. The climate crisis represents the greatest long term

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represents the greatest long term threat we face as a world, but the transition. Also. Represents the greatest economic opportunity of our time at home. We are driving for clean energy and climate action because it's right for energy security, lower bills, for energy security, lower bills, good jobs and growth for the British people, as well as for protecting future generations. We protecting future generations. We went to Cop because with the UK representing just 1% of annual global emissions, working with global emissions, working with other countries to tackle the climate crisis is the only way to protect our home and way of life.

protect our home and way of life. And because there are huge investment. And export opportunities for our country by accelerating this transition accelerating this transition globally. Madam Deputy Speaker, more than 190 countries more than 190 countries participated in this Cop to build on the progress made over more than three decades of global cooperation, three decades of global cooperation, which has seen us move from a world heading for four degrees or more of warming to one in which national
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None Portrait Ministerial statement: COP30
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warming to one in which national commitments put us on course for around 2.3 to 2.5 degrees. From a world where no major economy had a net zero target, to one where 80% of global GDP is covered, thanks in no small part to the leadership of the UK at Cop26 in Glasgow, and from a world where a majority of energy investment was in fossil fuels, to one where twice as much is invested in clean energy. Madam Deputy Speaker, the energy transition is happening, the world is moving and multilateralism is working.

The forces around the world, including here in Britain, who want to deny this crisis exists or delay the action we need to address it, are losing. But at the same time we were in Belgium conscious of the further progress that needs to be made, our Brazilian hosts were determined to make this an implementation cop, and the negotiations served as a focal point for action. This was the first cop to be held in the Amazon, and a significant focus therefore was on protecting forests, and the UK was proud to work with Brazil to help them develop the pioneering Tropical Forest Forever facility, and work on this was moved forward at Cop.

The UK was also proud to work alongside the Brazilian presidency on the Global Climate Action Agenda, which is about building coalitions of governments, businesses, cities and civil society groups to accelerate action on issues including reducing methane emissions, phasing out coal and driving investment in clean energy. Thousands of British businesses, as well as our researchers, universities, mayors and others were involved. Part of the unstoppable transition that is happening in the real economy, including here in Britain, where our net zero sectors are growing three times faster than the economy as a whole, and £52 billion of private investment has been announced in clean energy since July 2024.

Turning to the negotiations themselves, I want to put on record my thanks to the UK's brilliant cop negotiating team, led by our chief negotiator, Kate Hughes. Well, what I saw once again in Belgium was the huge admiration there is around the world for the talent, expertise and dedication of our civil service, as well as the recognition of British climate leadership built up over many decades under governments of different political parties. The foundation of our ability to stand up for Britain on the world stage.

Of course, there is a truth we must acknowledge. These summits are hard and complex. More than 190 countries negotiating how to transform their economies and societies is never going to be easy, and we didn't get everything we wanted from these talks, and there were times when it appeared there would be no agreement. But in the end, an agreement was reached and the outcome represented progress on three critical issues. First, on redoubling our efforts to keep global warming to 1.5 degrees. Last year, the Prime Minister announced the UK's target for 2035 to reduce emissions by at least 81% based on the previous government's carbon budget.

Many other countries have announced commitments over the last 12 months, including China for the first time, pledging to cut their emissions alongside the EU, Brazil and a total of 120 countries covering three quarters of global emissions. Yet we must do more to close the gap to 1.5 degrees and, recognising the urgency of action, it was agreed in the final Cop 30 text that all countries had to play a part to keep 1.5 degrees within reach, that this required us to meet net zero as a world by or around mid-century, and that all countries should be encouraged to raise their targets.

There will now be a forward process into Cop 31 next year, so we remain focussed on the urgency of this issue. Second, ambition on reducing emissions goes hand in hand with finance. Madam Deputy Speaker, this is in our interests because there is no route to global stability, growth and development without supporting developing countries to take the low carbon path and to better protect their populations from the impacts of the climate crisis. In Baku at Cop 29 last year, countries agreed we needed to mobilise at least $300 billion per year by 2035 for developing countries and scale up towards 1.3 trillion from all sources.

Cop 30 agreed to target a share of the global resources agreed last year towards a trebling of adaptation finance by 2035, to make sure that developing countries have the resilience they needed. Third, we know there is no solution to the climate crisis without action on the transition away from fossil fuels. The need for this transition away was agreed by all countries at Cop28 in Dubai, including by the last conservative government. The Brazilian presidency put forward the idea of agreeing to a roadmap on this transition away, so we could grapple with the difficult issues facing fossil fuel producing countries, as well as the need for a just and fair transition.

And at Cop 30, we saw the emergence of a broad coalition of 83 countries from the global North and global South, backed by more than 140 global businesses and civil society groups that endorsed this idea of the roadmap. Now, this turned out to be the hardest sticking point in the talks, and it couldn't be agreed in the final text because some countries objected. And yet, as a result of the momentum built, the Brazilian presidency announced that the conclusion of the Cop that it would launch such a roadmap on fossil fuels, as well as a roadmap to halt and reverse global deforestation.

Madam Deputy Speaker, these coalitions of the willing are important when we cannot reach universal agreement. As we have seen with the Powering Past Coal Alliance, initiated by Britain and Canada and now supported by 65 national governments, the Cop 30 agreement also took important steps forward on building carbon markets. The just transition, technology transfer and transparency on implementing commitments to countries are properly held to account. Taken together, this package represents incremental but important progress and extends the arc of the progress we have seen over 30 years of cops.

Now. This was particularly important this year because this summit was a test of whether countries would continue to work together on the collective threat we face, or whether, with the US stepping out of the Paris Agreement, there would be a domino effect of others departing. That has not happened at Cop 30. More than 190 countries reaffirm their faith in the Paris Agreement, their faith in working together to keep global warming to 1.5 degrees, and their faith in multilateralism.

The message coming out of Belgium was clear whatever the challenges, clean energy and climate action are the foundation on which the global economy is being remade and rebuilt. That is good for Britain because of the economic opportunities that clean energy represents. It's good for Britain because it's the route to energy security and lower bills, and it's good for Britain because it is the only way we can keep future generations safe from the threat of climate breakdown. And I

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commend this statement to the House. The shadow Secretary of State. Well.

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Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker, and I thank the Secretary of State for advance sight of his statement. Let's be clear, when this Secretary of State resumed office, he decided to impose the most punishing climate policies at home because, according to his argument, if we lead, then others will follow. lead, then others will follow. That's why we are now the only country in the world to be shutting down our own domestic energy supply down our own domestic energy supply in the North Sea.

That's why he's forcing us into ever higher energy forcing us into ever higher energy bills. He has taken the most hairshirt ideological approach to hairshirt ideological approach to climate policy. Thousands of jobs lost high bills for decades. So we're not setting an example to the rest of the world. What he has created is a warning. It is now the renewable advocate at home, who are raising the alarm about the folly raising the alarm about the folly of his plans to shut down the North Sea.

They say, who? Let me name them for them Scottish Renewables, them for them Scottish Renewables, Octopus Energy, and they may have heard of this one. The chair of his
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Claire Coutinho Portrait Rt Hon Claire Coutinho MP (East Surrey, Conservative)
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heard of this one. The chair of his very own great British energy. All of them have said that we have to continue to drill in the North Sea because they know there is no just transition by pulling the plug as

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thoughtlessly as they are doing. This is student politics. And yet thousands of. Britons.

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Britons. They they laugh. They laugh. I might remind them that it was their Minister that got booed when we went to Aberdeen, because it is thousands of Britons who are paying thousands of Britons who are paying the price with their jobs. Second, whilst he's been gone, it's become even clearer that it's his plans even clearer that it's his plans which are raising energy bills at home. Martin Lewis and all our country's biggest energy suppliers have publicly made clear that it is his costs which are now raising his costs which are now raising bills.

And the truth is this he promised the public lower bills and promised the public lower bills and more jobs, when in fact his policies are destroying jobs and signing us up to higher bills for signing us up to higher bills for decades. That's not what the public were promised. That's why I say the real path to lower emissions is real path to lower emissions is cheaper electricity. If you want people to choose electric cars or electric heating, then you need to make electricity cheap.

That's why our cheap power plan would cut the cost of electricity for everyone by cost of electricity for everyone by 20%. We have some of the cleanest but most expensive electricity in the world. Our plan would address the world. Our plan would address that, and even the chair of the select committee has said that it merits consideration. But let me return to Cop to see what he did achieve. How many countries joined his new Global Clean Power Alliance? We didn't hear of that in the statement.

And that's because it's not a single one. Perhaps the terrible outcomes he's achieving at home have put them off. And worst of all, Madam Deputy Speaker, despite this conference cutting down acres of the Amazon rainforest, he chose not to support this conference's flagship forest fund. Every conservative government since 2021 supported global funds on deforestation. But he made sure that Britain, for the first time in four years, did not contribute. Madam Deputy Speaker, is this not the height of hypocrisy? When people say they support environmental policy, they first and foremost mean protecting the natural world that we all cherish.

Doesn't this show up his green ideology for what it is bureaucratic, punitive and ultimately ineffective? His plans are completely counterproductive. So he should answer these fundamental questions. What do his plans mean for electricity bills? When everyone from Martin Lewis to Ofgem has made clear that it's his policies that are raising bills, and what assessment has he made of how damaging it is for those higher electricity bills when it comes to electrification? Because here's the rub he's making electricity more expensive and expecting people to use it for their heating as a plan.

It is simply absurd. Second, how many more emissions were the UK count for if it is increasing its imports of LNG gas with four times the emissions of the North Sea? He is driving away British jobs to import gas with higher emissions. He should explain to the House what the environmental benefit is of that. Third, how will it help climate change if AI firms which want to use gas power set up shop in some other country rather than Britain, those data centres will still exist, just not here in Britain thanks to his policies.

Fourth, what does he say to Martin Lewis, who has made very clear that it's not gas? That's the problem pushing up bills. It is his plans. And here's the problem. From our electricity price to the North Sea to AI, he is impoverishing Britain for no benefit to global emissions. This is student politics. We've become a warning, not an example to the rest of the world. And here's what he should remember. No country is going to be convinced by a moral lecture from this Secretary of State.

What they're persuaded by is prosperity, and it is his hairshirt approach which is the biggest

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blocker to British prosperity. Chris Vince praise to you.

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Chris Vince praise to you. Oh dear, oh, dear. I mean, I remember a time when the Conservative Party was serious Conservative Party was serious about the the cop negotiations and serious. I mean, she had advanced sight of the statement, but she sight of the statement, but she didn't ask any questions about the statement. Well, well, I have to say there is a fundamental issue say there is a fundamental issue here, which is do we engage internationally on how we drive the internationally on how we drive the clean energy transition forward, or do we do we go to a series of do we do we go to a series of really pretty useless talking points, which is what she chose to do.

Now, let me let me get to her question. Let me get to her questions such as they are. She questions such as they are. She talks about she talks about jobs. Let me tell her what some of the things that have happened on jobs in the last couple of weeks, 3000 in the last couple of weeks, 3000 new jobs smrs in North Wales, the biggest investment in North Wales biggest investment in North Wales in a generation 600 promised, promised multiple times by them never delivered 600 jobs in Great never delivered 600 jobs in Great Yarmouth, Belfast and the North West, all thanks to our clean power plans.

Announced thousands more
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Ed Miliband Portrait Rt Hon Ed Miliband MP, The Secretary of State for Energy Security and Net Zero (Doncaster North, Labour)
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plans. Announced thousands more jobs as part of their 33 billion investment in the UK and and all of which, and let's not forget this, all of which will be put at risk by their plan to rip up the Climate Change Act. And don't take it from me, Madam Deputy Speaker. In the words of Rain Newton-smith, the director general of the CBI, a backward step in achieving our shared objectives of economic growth, boosting energy security, protecting our environment and making life healthier for future generations, roundly condemned by British business.

And of course, and of course, the proof of this is what we've seen in the last 15 months. She talks about the record more than 50 billion of investment in clean energy in Britain, pledged because of our because of our plans. She talks about bills. Of course, the problem about the right hon. Lady is she has learnt nothing from the disaster they imposed on the country. The the worst cost of living crisis in generations in this country and whatever. Oh, and he says because Putin invaded Ukraine.

Excellent, excellent. I congratulate him on his temporary intervention. Exactly, exactly. And why did prices go through the roof? And why were we so exposed? Because of our exposure to fossil fuels. And and what do they want to do and what do they want to do? Madam Deputy Speaker they want to double down on the exposure to fossil fuels. The the truth that she knows and which the Conservative Party used to, used to believe before they went a bit more wacky than they were before the, the the truth is that there is only one route to energy security in the modern world, which is clean home-grown power that we control.

And and for all of that, for all of everything they say, the truth is that they have learned nothing from what happened on the on on the cop. We're let me go to the questions such as they were on the cop, by the way, she complains about the cop being being held in the Amazon. I have to say to her, with with the greatest of respect, I'll take President Lula's judgement about where the cop should be held rather than hers. I mean, you know, for goodness sake, have a bit of respect for the Brazilian presidency.

They decided the right thing to do was to hold the cop in the Amazon, to draw attention to the issue of deforestation, and she's complaining about their decisions to make the cop possible. I mean, for goodness sake, on the on the point about the TTF, we are supportive of the TTF and we'll keep under review whether we can make a contribution. It was because of fiscal circumstances that we did not, but we're investing more than £1 billion over five years in countering deforestation.

I'm proud of what we're doing there in relation to that and in relation to the to the Congo basin, just just on the point about British leadership. I mean, she could not be more wrong, actually, about about the role of Britain in relation to these things. Actually, what people are seeing is an ambitious government that is leading on these issues. And so actually there's some respect for what Britain is actually suggesting. Others do. And and Madam Deputy Speaker, there's a record that we need to learn from here, from both parties.

And I say this sort of, you know, as politely as I can to the Conservative Party, ambition at home is what makes possible leadership abroad. We pass the Climate Change Act in 2008, which she now wants to rip up. 60 countries followed. We put net zero into law by 2050, which she wants to rip up. Theresa May, who I present, isn't the extraordinary. I can praise Theresa May, but but the Conservative Party can't praise Theresa May, so she put net zero into law in 2050, net zero by 2050, which they want to rip up.

And now 80% of global GDP is follows isn't isn't there? I'll end by saying this, madam Deputy Speaker, there is a truth here, which is the Conservative Party used to aspire to Global Britain. Now they have simply become the party of Little

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Britain. And it really, really doesn't look good. The chair of the Select Committee, Bill Esterson.

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Committee, Bill Esterson. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. Well, my right hon. Friend reminded us of the progress that was made at Cop. Quite rightly so. The recommitment to limiting global recommitment to limiting global warming to no more than 1.5 degrees is hugely important. He was honest that we didn't get everything we wanted as well, and that is that is wanted as well, and that is that is sensible. But he also reminded us of the absolute seriousness of climate breakdown, and that we must take every action possible.

And take every action possible. And that goes beyond Cop. And I hope he will agree that the work continues, will agree that the work continues, whether we're in a cop or not. He's already started talking about energy security, which I want to energy security, which I want to link to this because we there is a link to this because we there is a worrying tendency for a loss of support for the transition. So does he agree that it is really important that we make the case, especially in the light of the ongoing aggression from Russia? And
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Bill Esterson Portrait Bill Esterson MP (Sefton Central, Labour)
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ongoing aggression from Russia? And we've just had the statement, including on Ukraine demonstrating this, that we make clear to people that energy security and climate breakdown are very strongly linked, and that the answers to both of them are the energy transition.

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Yeah. I think my hon. Friend makes a really, really important point. And really, really important point. And one of the reasons that we've seen this movement of support for the transition away from fossil fuels transition away from fossil fuels is not simply climate related, but it's energy security related. It's it's energy security related. It's it's lots of countries, including Britain, that recognise and the Britain, that recognise and the gentleman said it from the sedentary position, sort of unwittingly helpfully that that unwittingly helpfully that that Putin's invasion of Ukraine showed Putin's invasion of Ukraine showed the vulnerability we have by our reliance on fossil fuels and many, many, many countries.

Very striking many, many countries. Very striking round table hosted by Marina Silva, the environment Minister in Brazil, with lots of countries of the with lots of countries of the global North and global South saying the same thing, which is for us, the move away from fossil fuels us, the move away from fossil fuels towards home-grown clean energy is the route to energy security. So my hon. Friend makes a very important hon. Friend makes a very important point. Any other point I would make to him is he's right.

These negotiations are hard. They're
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Ed Miliband Portrait Rt Hon Ed Miliband MP, The Secretary of State for Energy Security and Net Zero (Doncaster North, Labour)
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negotiations are hard. They're painstaking. You've got to look over the course of the 30 years and the progress that has been made.

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But it's obviously tough and different countries are in different positions. And that's what these talks are all about. Liberal Democrat spokesperson

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Liberal Democrat spokesperson Pippa Heylings. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. Cop 30 was the first climate summit Cop 30 was the first climate summit since the world experienced a full year of. Global warming above 1.5 degrees, and that is a stark reminder of the urgency that we collectively face at home. Due to collectively face at home. Due to extreme weather, our farmers have faced the worst harvest on record and lost billions in income from arable crops. Whilst we've seen devastating wildfires with doubling records which have wiped out national parks and local environments that are precious to everyone, these are the costs of everyone, these are the costs of inaction and climate breakdown here in the UK.

I was proud to be part of a cross-party group of MPs that of a cross-party group of MPs that attended this Cop, and to carry with me the hopes of young people in South Cambridgeshire who sent me in South Cambridgeshire who sent me pictures, videos and poems. And Freya, aged 11, wrote I don't want Freya, aged 11, wrote I don't want to just inherit my future, I want to be able to shape the decisions to be able to shape the decisions and actions that others are taking on my behalf, because I am afraid and I want to commend Brazil.

I
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Pippa Heylings Portrait Pippa Heylings MP (South Cambridgeshire, Liberal Democrat)
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and I want to commend Brazil. I want to commend the Secretary of State and the UK negotiating team, all those who work tirelessly to keep the cop process alive, despite relentless attacks from climate denialism, delay and deception. Because the multilateral system is far from perfect. But it is the best alternative we have for global cooperation on climate change. There were positives the pledges to cut methane, recognition of the links between climate and nature and public health, the commitment to triple adaptation finance, which we know from Hurricane Melissa in Jamaica, is absolutely critical.

And the demonstration by business that the transition is climate is an economic imperative and opportunity. The global climate action agenda is just so inspiring and has massive impact. But we do know that hope was not matched by delivery. There's still no credible plan to really reduce the gap between current commitments and the reductions needed to stay below 1.5 degrees. The the refusal to reference fossil fuels in the transition away in the final text, despite being the root cause of the crisis, was a staggering failure, and the PM's unexpected and inexplicable decision not to support the tropical forest facility was really, really disturbing because this was what Brazil launched an investment innovative facility to save tropical forests and give them a

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value whilst standing. Thank you. Mr. Well, I agree with much of what

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Well, I agree with much of what the hon. Lady said. Not not all of it. The on her sort of overall it. The on her sort of overall point about the fact that we've got so many countries that are driving so many countries that are driving forward with action. I think she's absolutely right on the point she makes about the gap to 1.5, as she makes about the gap to 1.5, as she is also absolutely right. And, you is also absolutely right.

And, you know, in a sense, part of what the future of these cops is going to be about is each country driving about is each country driving others to towards greater ambition because we know we need greater ambition. I do think it's important ambition. I do think it's important in this to, to to look at also where the world has come from, where the world has come from, because, you know, this multilateral process has got all kinds of maddening aspects to it, kinds of maddening aspects to it, but it has it has made it has definitely made progress.

On the point about business. She's absolutely right. It is really striking, I think, I think the the fact of the agreement, the fact of
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Ed Miliband Portrait Rt Hon Ed Miliband MP, The Secretary of State for Energy Security and Net Zero (Doncaster North, Labour)
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fact of the agreement, the fact of this staying on track is an important signal to business. Just like the Climate Change Act is an important signal to business here at home. On her point about the TF, let me just sort of say candidly, we've got a very difficult fiscal situation in this country. We have not ruled out contributing to the investing in the TF in the future. It's obviously something, as the PM said, that we will keep under review. And and just overall, I will just end by saying to her, I just want to thank her for her support on this issue, because as much as possible, we want to keep as much of the cross-party

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consensus as we can. This really important matter. Sarah Coombes. Thank you, Madam. Deputy Speaker.

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I was. Part of that same cross-party delegation to Cop in Belgium and we were proud to meet with parliamentarians all over the world who were absolutely invested in the cop process and still absolutely believe in its importance. I was believe in its importance. I was struck by how many conversations we had about the UK's enduring global leadership on climate change, from leadership on climate change, from our landmark Climate Change Act in 2008, under the last government, to our clean energy policies.

Today, our clean energy policies. Today, it's not just about driving down carbon emissions and climate change. It's also about Britain's role in It's also about Britain's role in the world. So will the Secretary of State commit for Britain to continue leading the way on driving down carbon emissions and saving down carbon emissions and saving our planet, and continue to make the case that this action is making

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life in Britain for British people safer and cheaper? Yes, Secretary. I think my hon. Friend is entirely right about this, with us as 1% of global emissions. As I said in my statement, engaging with the world is just incredibly important. There is huge respect for for Britain on these issues and for for Britain on these issues and to pay credit to, to, to some of what the actions under the last government. Lord Sharma, Theresa
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Ed Miliband Portrait Rt Hon Ed Miliband MP, The Secretary of State for Energy Security and Net Zero (Doncaster North, Labour)
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Lizzi Collinge. Thank you, Madam

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Deputy Speaker. It frankly baffles. Me to see objections. To global

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Me to see objections. To global and national action on climate change, not least because of the climate emergency, but also because the opportunity it brings to our the opportunity it brings to our country. In my constituency of Morecambe and Lunesdale, we've had good clean energy jobs for decades. good clean energy jobs for decades. From Heysham one and two nuclear power station. And you know, I keep pushing for Heysham three. And does pushing for Heysham three. And does the Minister agree with me that these agreements at Cop 30, the government's actions on climate change, are.

An opportunity not only to fight climate change, not only to create good jobs, but also

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to improve living standards in our country and across the globe. Hey. I mean.

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I mean. 100%. Madam Deputy Speaker, you know, for all of the for all of what the people opposite say, the what the people opposite say, the net zero economy, according to the CBI, is growing three times faster CBI, is growing three times faster than the economy as a whole. There is a reason why China, India, all these other countries are driving these other countries are driving into clean energy because they see it as a massive economic opportunity. And the people
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Ed Miliband Portrait Rt Hon Ed Miliband MP, The Secretary of State for Energy Security and Net Zero (Doncaster North, Labour)
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Toby Perkins.

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Very much, Madam Deputy Speaker. It was absolutely. Clear meeting international colleagues at Cop 30.

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international colleagues at Cop 30. The extent to which. The UK's track record on this and the policy of this government and the policy of this government are hugely respected and we're right to reflect that. And actually, whilst there was huge support for whilst there was huge support for many of the steps this government has taken, there was also great respect for. government.

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Had taken. And I share his despair that the current version of the Conservative Party didn't only oppose his politics, but trashes oppose his politics, but trashes their own history, which is in this area at least, should be.

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A proud one. But does he. Agree with me that. Whilst I absolutely believe that we wouldn't have got.

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The statement. That we did get without his work and the work of his colleagues over there, it is. Disappointing we.

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Disappointing we. Didn't get that roadmap towards

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Didn't get that roadmap towards the eradication of fossil fuels. Agreed. And on that basis, can he say what more he's going to be doing to try and bring that coalition. Together to get greater agreement when we get to Turkiye or
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Toby Perkins Portrait Mr Toby Perkins MP (Chesterfield, Labour)
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agreement when we get to Turkiye or even before that next. Year round birthday? Well, can I thank? First of all,

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Well, can I thank? First of all, thank my hon. Friend, the chair of the EC, who does really outstanding job, and also my hon. Friend who's the chair of the DESNZ Select Committee to look, I think his observations about the Conservative Party are I, I won't I won't add to them because he put them well on the on the transition away. I mean it this is the hardest part of the negotiations, as I said. And in a sense, it's it's it's not surprising because there are countries who are extremely reliant and and who, who, who are very, very reluctant and I think in retrospect are quite reluctant about what was agreed at Cop 28, which is part of the difficulties we've got.

I think what we've got to accept, I agree with him about continuing to push for this to be part of the negotiations. I also think we've got to accept, as I said in my statement, that part of what we did on coal, to be fair, the last government did on coal is work with others, you know, work as much as you can inside the formal negotiations, but also work with others outside the formal negotiations to drive these issues forward. And and the lesson of the cop history is that you keep pushing forward on these issues.

And it's slightly three steps forward, two steps back. But you do make progress. make progress.
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Andrew Mitchell Portrait Rt Hon Sir Andrew Mitchell MP (Sutton Coldfield, Conservative)
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Secretary of State. work he did under the last government on a whole range of development and climate issues, and I really thank him for his question. I think my view of Cop is a bit like the Churchill view of democracy, which is the least worst system we have. And, you know, you for all of the complaints and for all of the problems with it, we are bringing 193, 194 countries together. And he will know from his experience of these cops, there is an element of accountability.

These cops, the smallest island states, can confront the big emitters. Now. It's hard. It's painful. I just say to him, because he cares passionately about these issues. You know, we sort of skated over it in these discussions. But the but the agreement to treble adaptation finance, which one of my hon. Friends drew attention to, is significant within the nccg that was agreed last year is a significant development. Now, it's not as much as many of the developing countries want. And, you know, when you look at the scale of need, Hurricane Melissa, etc.

you need, Hurricane Melissa, etc. you can see the the difficulties. But my experience, I was part of the 100 billion overall finance that 100 billion overall finance that Gordon Brown produced around the Copenhagen summit. Again, it was sort of hard. And developing countries complained about being countries complained about being late, but it did set a bar of accountability for the developed world. So I sort of agree with him. world. So I sort of agree with him. I'm sure the process could be could be better, but I do think it's an important mechanism of accountability and driving progress.

accountability and driving progress.
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Ed Miliband Portrait Rt Hon Ed Miliband MP, The Secretary of State for Energy Security and Net Zero (Doncaster North, Labour)
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Stella Creasy thank you.

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My colleagues, but I'm. So glad the people who. Were there. In. Particular the enduring. Leadership of the Secretary.

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Leadership of the Secretary. Of State on this issue, and I'm glad he's not listening to the member from Christchurch. He's no.

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He's no. Longer in his place about the idea that we should. Somehow be adapting to. Reality because we know it is

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Reality because we know it is the poorest people in our societies who often. Pay both at. Home and abroad. The ultimate price for our failure to tackle.

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failure to tackle. The climate crisis and the. Biggest drags on growth. It is because. Of the powerful. Leadership he's shown at Cop

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Leadership he's shown at Cop this weekend. I have to press him. Because he. Will know. The concerns that many of us. Have, that at.

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Have, that at. Home decisions around issues like Jackdaw. And. Rosebank could undermine that leadership, with developments that

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leadership, with developments that could lead to nearly 300 million tonnes. Of carbon. Emissions and. Fatally attack.

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Fatally attack. Our ability to stick to the. 1.5% increase. In temperature. And also would. Not.

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Not. Help the cost of living crisis. I know that there is a process ahead. Can he assure us that it is
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Stella Creasy Portrait Ms Stella Creasy MP (Walthamstow, Labour )
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our global leadership, as well as our local cost of living. That. Will be. Foremost in his mind.

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Rosebank. And Jackdaw, and he will rethink them? Well, I'm not going to comment on on planning decisions. I'm going on on planning decisions. I'm going to make an overall point, though, which is this government had two manifesto commitments, which was to keep existing oil and gas fields in the North Sea open for their lifetime, and not to issue new licences to explore new fields. Those were important commitments there. The way that we combine the just transition in the North Sea, including for North Sea communities, and making sure that we have environmental leadership and we're committed to both of those things.

And I thank and I thank my hon. Friend for her wider advocacy on

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all of these issues. Kit Malthouse Madam Deputy. Speaker. I'm grateful to the hon. Lady. To learn that I wasn't the only

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To learn that I wasn't the only person not invited to to Cop 30, but I followed it closely and I was but I followed it closely and I was very pleased to see the emergence of the four X agreement, which committed its signatories to quadrupling the production and deployment of sustainable fuel molecules by 2035, which would molecules by 2035, which would include, most importantly for the United Kingdom, green hydrogen. United Kingdom, green hydrogen. Unfortunately, while I could find the name of Italy and I think Brazil obviously, and India on that,
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Ed Miliband Portrait Rt Hon Ed Miliband MP, The Secretary of State for Energy Security and Net Zero (Doncaster North, Labour)
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including the UK, is partly reflected. Well, some of it was reflected in the agreement at Cop26. But part of this is actually just about these coalitions that these high ambition coalitions that formed together. And as I said earlier in response to an earlier question, we have to do both of these things working in the context of the agreements. But because they rely on unanimity, you can't always get what you want and then work in these broader coalitions.

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Harpreet Uppal thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. disappointing. To hear from. climate.

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climate. Change and. Attending Cop. Is. Student politics. Clearly it's not. It is about grown ups coming to

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It is about grown ups coming to the table. So, you know. Can I. Thank the Secretary. Of State and his team for their.

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Work and. Commitment in getting the agreement at Cop? And as we start looking towards. Cop 31.

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Cop 31. Can I ask how we're advancing and monitoring. The domestic. Implementation of our MDC? And can we also set out how global agreements in Cop translate.

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To. Practical support for communities and businesses in Huddersfield?

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Thank you, Secretary of State. Well, my hon. Friend, I think made a very important point in her made a very important point in her opening question, which I'll let the House absorb on the specific the House absorb on the specific questions she makes. We have a very important carbon budget monitoring system within government. I do system within government. I do think it's important to say that at the same time as the opposition the same time as the opposition says, they want to rip up the support, the act that they supported, that David Cameron
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Ed Miliband Portrait Rt Hon Ed Miliband MP, The Secretary of State for Energy Security and Net Zero (Doncaster North, Labour)
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I will be finishing this statement within the next 10 to 15 minutes. So members and and the

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Minister could keep their answers and questions short. Ellie Chowns. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. We're at a pivotal moment in the climate crisis, and Cop 30 showed us the fossil fuel industry and their political cheerleaders doing their political cheerleaders doing their very best to derail action. I thank the Secretary of State for his work, and I have two questions his work, and I have two questions on points he raised in his statement. First, on finance, he said ambition must be matched with finance.

And yet the UK has not contributed to the tropical forest facility or the just transition mechanism. Is it not time for the mechanism. Is it not time for the UK to put its money where its mouth is on this? And secondly, on the point of transition away from point of transition away from fossil fuels, the UK faces a defining test. Rosebank. Will he reject the Rosebank oil field and fully back the just transition our country needs?

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On the second point, I refer to the answer I gave to my hon. Friend on the first point. I think she's on the first point. I think she's being a little bit unfair, to put it mildly. On the UK we we led the it mildly. On the UK we we led the process of agreeing an ambitious nwcg last year on overall finance. nwcg last year on overall finance. We were part of an agreement that saw the trebling of adaptation
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Ed Miliband Portrait Rt Hon Ed Miliband MP, The Secretary of State for Energy Security and Net Zero (Doncaster North, Labour)
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Thank the Secretary of State for his. Statement this afternoon? Point of order, James Cartlidge. Thank you, Madam. Deputy Speaker, and I. Seek.

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Seek. Your guidance about a piece of. So-called ministerial. Correspondence that I have received, the worst I have ever had.

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received, the worst I have ever had. The displeasure to receive. As a member. Of Parliament. And I'm serious. Minister. You mine is a rural

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Minister. You mine is a rural constituency, and the. Family farm tax. Is an extremely serious matter. It is an. Existential threat. To many.

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To many. Businesses in my constituency. And earlier this month I wrote to the Chancellor of the Exchequer, setting out a serious.

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setting out a serious. Detailed argument about why it has such an impact. I spoke about mental health, about the.

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mental health, about the. Wider economic impact, and I expected a reasonable reply asking her to reconsider the tax tomorrow. her to reconsider the tax tomorrow. I received yesterday a letter that states just this. It's not a holding reply. I confirm we have

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shared your letter with. The relevant. Policy officials. In the department. Thank you again for taking the

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time to make me aware. Of your concerns. That is the. Letter signed by the Correspondence and Enquiries

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the Correspondence and Enquiries Unit, HM Treasury not a Minister. Madam Deputy Speaker is it acceptable for us. To have. Ministerial correspondence. Not from Ministers?

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Not from Ministers? Is it acceptable. For it not to. Even go to a Minister, but to the relevant policy officials?
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James Cartlidge Portrait Points of Order James Cartlidge MP (South Suffolk, Conservative)
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the relevant policy officials? And is. It acceptable on. Such an. Important matter. To have all of the points.

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To have all of the points. In it completely ignored? Yes. Can I. Thank the. hon. Member. For his point. Of order?

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Of order? It is disappointing to hear that the hon. Member has not received a more substantive response to the concerns raised by his constituents. Ministers themselves are responsible for their own correspondence, and the government's ministerial code states that Ministers should, where possible, provide full. And timely responses to such correspondence. The Treasury Bench will have heard his concerns, but he may also wish to raise his concerns with the leader of.

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The House. Point of order. Point of. Order, Richard Holden. Thank you very much indeed.

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Thank you very much indeed. questions. The Member of Parliament for Bridlington and the world's asked. The Transport.

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The Transport. Secretary whether. A pay. Per mile charge would be introduced, as had been reported in

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the Financial Times. In response. The Transport. proposals. To introduce a.

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To introduce a. National pay per mile scheme. However, the. Government then. Briefed the. Daily Express, claiming that the Transport Secretary had misspoken in this chamber. This directly contradicts what this House was
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None Portrait Ten Minute Rule Motion: Waste Incinerators
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back into waste management. Since the landfill tax was introduced in 1996, consecutive administrations. 1996, consecutive administrations. Labour coalition conservative have encouraged incineration and encouraged incineration and discouraged landfill. They've been helped by the burner industry, which has greenwashed its operations as energy from waste. The generation of a few tepid calories and a feeble stream of calories and a feeble stream of electrons has convinced Whitehall that waste burners are part of a transition to a green future and to net zero.

They are not. We are allergic to putting waste in the allergic to putting waste in the ground, but happy to consign it to the landfill in the sky, out of the landfill in the sky, out of sight, out of mind, straight into the lungs of those living downwind and straight onto the nation's and straight onto the nation's carbon ledger. Not only does incineration of plastic produce 175 times as much CO2 as landfill, but the emissions per unit of energy produced from burning mixed waste is the same as coal and nearly double that of gas.

It is the dirtiest way we generate electricity in this country by far. We have to change course. We tax oil, we tax gas. We have turned our back on coal entirely and are turning off taps in the North Sea. We refrain from exploiting shale deposits whilst importing LNG. Our share of global emissions is less than 1% and falling. We are more than doing our bit at considerable cost in the short to medium term, at least to our economy and the people we serve.

Yet we do not tax incineration, which gives off the most world warming, health harming emissions in return for a paltry amount of energy. A welcome inclusion of incineration in the UK Emission trading scheme is necessary, but it's not sufficient. The time has come to use the same infrastructure that raises the landfill tax to levy an incineration waste tax at rates that will promote the handling of rubbish in a way that is at the top of the waste hierarchy, not at the bottom.

Unfortunately, an incineration tax has not been among the kites flown in advance of the budget, but I will gladly pull my bill if the Chancellor pulls this rabbit out of the hat tomorrow. She knows we have too many waste incinerators already. The government's own analysis, published in December last year, confirms that with the 50 waste burners already operational in England and Wales, we already have more capacity today than we will need in 2035. In other words, the 12 plants being built and the 41 that had been granted planning permission as of last December were already surplus to requirements.

Why do we need to almost double our capacity to burn waste when the government knows it is already excessive? And where's the social justice in the way we consign the nation's waste to the atmosphere? Unsurprisingly, incinerators are cited disproportionately in poorer, densely populated places with a heavy burden of ill health. The growing monster at Edmonton, for example, which already takes waste from Leafier more favoured districts to burn in the capital, belching a cocktail of gases and ultrafine particles with uncertain health consequences across a huge swathe of north London.

Having too many incinerators for the residual waste available might be tolerable if it were not for clauses in contracts between local authorities and incinerator operators that demand councils consign a minimum amount of waste for burning to avoid financial penalties, so-called deliver or pay contracts. What happens if a council reducing, reusing and recycling waste, as it should turns out not to have enough waste to feed the monstrous burner that's been foisted on their community? Waste will be imported. Of course it will, because the monster must be fed.

Geneva, of all places. Trucks in waste from Milan to keep running a burner that, once built, failed to secure enough rubbish locally. The more households reduce their waste and local authorities recycle, the less waste councils will have to send for incineration that triggers penalties under deliver or pay that they can't afford. Little wonder recycling has stalled for the last 15 years. Little wonder that where incineration rates are higher, recycling rates are lower. DEFRA figures make that abundantly clear and it gets worse.

Transitional arrangements laid last year will allow 31 waste collection authorities, including Wiltshire, to defer the separate food waste collections required from March next year under the Otherwise Excellent Environment Act 2021. In some cases to the 2040s, this means sending compostable waste waste to the burner. So we have a ludicrous situation in which councils are being actively encouraged to recycle less and even import waste just to keep running a set of wholly unnecessary incinerators that pollutes far more than it pays. But then it powers this bill will outlaw importation of waste for burning, terminate, deliver or pay contracts, and rescind the 2021 Environment Act Transitional Provisions Regulations 2024.

We must revoke planning permission for those 41 pending sites, including the monstrosity planned for Westbury in my constituency, where preliminary work has recently begun. We must immediately prohibit any more permissions and permits. The last government paused the issuing of environmental permits to new burners, the only attempt by any government to alter course in the last three decades. My party's manifesto last year contained a firm commitment to put a stop to them. The Welsh Labour Government wisely placed a moratorium on new burners in 2021.

The Scottish Government did so the following year after a review highlighted the risks incineration poses to human health and the environment. The review went on to say Scotland should not construct more capacity than it needs, and only some of the currently planned capacity should be built. The government's in-principle acceptance of this bill, perhaps by launching a consultation on the future incineration, like the 2022 Scottish Review, might be enough because it was signalled to investors that the incineration game is up. It would say that if you want to be in the waste business, you must stop burning and start operating higher up the waste hierarchy.

Madam Deputy Speaker, my bill calls time on one of our biggest polluters, one that is hidden in plain sight. It begins to lower the curtain on a filthy enterprise, cynically passing itself off as green because it generates a few calories, a trickle of electrons, and the promise of carbon capture at some point in the distant future. As the government's own figures show, we are already at overcapacity. Without the measures in this bill, the industry will almost double its capacity in the decade to 2035.

That means the hierarchy of waste will be inverted to soak up the excess capacity. This bill ends Whitehall's obsession with incineration. It directs the UK waste industry to start operating much higher up the waste hierarchy. Tax, incineration, ban, deliver or pay contracts, outlaw waste imports. Above all,

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build no more incinerators here. The question is that the hon. Member have leave to bring in the Member have leave to bring in the bill. As many as are of that opinion, say I of the contrary. No, opinion, say I of the contrary. No, I think the ayes have it. The ayes have it. Who will prepare and bring in the bill?

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in the bill? Steve Barclay. Brian Mathew Matthew John Glen Danny Kruger. Matthew John Glen Danny Kruger. Euan Stainbank. Ben Obese-Jecty. Lee Barron. Lloyd Hatton Robbie Lee Barron. Lloyd Hatton Robbie Moore. And myself, madam Deputy Speaker.

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Waste Waste incinerators.

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Waste incinerators. Bill. Second Reading. What day?

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Bill. Second Reading. What day? Friday, January the 16th.

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Friday, January the 16th. The clerk will now proceed to read the orders of the day.

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orders of the day. English Devolution and Community Empowerment Bill, as amended in the Empowerment Bill, as amended in the public Bill Committee, to be further considered.

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further considered. Now. We will begin with government new clause 45, with which it will be convenient to which it will be convenient to consider other new clauses. The new schedule and amendments as listed on the selection paper for day two. on the selection paper for day two. I call the Minister to move new I call the Minister to move new clause 45. Madam Deputy Speaker, it is my pleasure to open.

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is my pleasure to open. The debate on day two of the English Devolution and Community Empowerment Bill Report stage. Empowerment Bill Report stage. Today's debate is concerned with parts three and four and five of the bill, which covers provisions the bill, which covers provisions relating to local government, community right to buy, local audit and the ending of Upward-only rent and the ending of Upward-only rent review clauses in commercial leases. As with yesterday's debate, I will focus my remarks on the substantive focus my remarks on the substantive changes we made at committee and those that we have brought forward those that we have brought forward at report.

Before I turn to these amendments, Madam Deputy Speaker, I'd like to address some of the comments made in yesterday's debate. Members on the benches opposite suggested that this government has not taken on board any of their suggestions today. Madam Deputy Speaker, I am delighted to demonstrate that the government has been listening to the points raised by members in the House and by our
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None Portrait Legislation: English Devolution and Community Empowerment Bill (Day Two): Remaining stages
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mayors. We have today announced the next big step in our path to devolution. Mayors will be given the power to raise revenue locally through a new overnight visitor levy. We are consulting on whether to also grant this power to leaders of foundation strategic authorities. This is a groundbreaking step for the future of devolution, with transformative investment potential for England's tourism sector and the wider economy. Mayors have already proven what is possible when they are given the tools to deliver.

From the Mayor of London using business rate supplements to deliver the Elizabeth line to the Mayor of Greater Manchester, using his moral precepts on council tax to provide far improved bus services, making places more attractive to visit, live and work in will attract further investment and improve the visitor experience. I am therefore proposing constituent authorities within a strategic authority that implement a levy should be eligible for a share of the revenue raised for growth related spending. Tomorrow, the Exchequer Secretary to the Treasury and the Secretary of State for housing, Communities and Local Government will publish a consultation with the details of the proposed levy.

We recognise that businesses and potential visitors may have concerns about the effects of a new level, and we will take these concerns seriously. I expect mayors to engage constructively with businesses and their communities to hear these concerns. Throughout the consultation period and before and beyond. I will give way.

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Thank you, Minister, for giving way. I am interested in this proposal. I am just wondering whether it will be applicable to whether it will be applicable to council areas that don't yet have a mayor, and may not have a mayor for some time. Will they still be able

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some time. Will they still be able to have the power to impose an overnight visitor levy? Thank you to the hon. Member. We

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Thank you to the hon. Member. We will be consulting on whether this power should be extended to foundational strategic authorities that do not have a mayor, and will that do not have a mayor, and will see the responses to that consultation. Madam Deputy Speaker, I said yesterday that the bill is I said yesterday that the bill is the floor, not the ceiling, of this government's ambition. Today's announcement shows just how announcement shows just how seriously we take the mayor's right to request new powers, and our commitment to give them the tools they need to drive growth for the they need to drive growth for the area.

I would like to thank my hon. Friend, the member of Liverpool Wavertree, the member of Vauxhall Wavertree, the member of Vauxhall and Campbell, for raising this issue, and my hon. Friend, the Member for Uxbridge and South
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Miatta Fahnbulleh Portrait Miatta Fahnbulleh MP, Parliamentary Under-Secretary (Housing, Communities and Local Government) (Peckham, Labour )
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Ruislip for his contribution to the debate yesterday. Now turning to the changes to Commons committee, the government recognises how much communities value their local sports ground as spaces that foster local pride, belonging and identity. The bill will automatically designate grounds across England as sporting assets of community value, ensuring that these essential local spaces are protected. We have introduced a new 16 week review period for communities seeking to purchase a sporting asset of community value, accommodating over 10,000 spectators.

This amendment is about putting in place processes to safeguard the long term sustainability of large sports grounds, ensuring that communities have the capability and the readiness to manage them effectively. Turning to local audit, the Bill delivers fully on our commitment to deliver the broken, to fix and tackle the broken local audit system that we inherited, and will set local government on a firmer financial footing. A Commons committee we have inserted new provisions related to financial penalties, sanctions and criminal offences. This will ensure that the local audit system has the right levers in place to deter and sanction improper behaviour.

The new local Audit Office will be established as the regulatory authority for this system, and will be given further powers to conduct assurances, reviews. Madam Deputy Speaker. The bill will ban Upward-only rent review clauses in new and renewed commercial leases. These reviews create an imbalance of supply and demand, contributing to the blight of empty properties we have seen, from high street shops to empty office floors. Our amendment will close the loophole in the ban, ensuring that tenants who vacate or have not occupied properties are still caught by the ban, and it will allow tenants to trigger a rent review in all leases, preventing landlords from avoiding rent reviews during times of rental decline.

Now turning to the amendments at Report stage, I turn to new clause 46, which will confer the general power of competence on England's national park authorities and border authorities. The legislation underpinning our national parks currently limits their power to activities directly related to their statutory function, creating uncertainty and stifling their ability to innovate. Providing them with a general power of competence will enable them to innovate, to be agile in delivering their statutory functions, and to contributing to the government's

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wider agenda. I will. Thank the Minister for giving way. In addition to this very welcome general. Power.

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Power. Of confidence for the national park authorities, will the. Minister consider putting

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Minister consider putting amendments in to ensure that the new unitary surrounding those park authorities do not dominate the

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authorities do not dominate the membership of the board with a majority? Minister. Thank you to the hon. Member for

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Thank you to the hon. Member for raising this point and for advocating for our our national park authorities. We are really park authorities. We are really clear that as we go through the process of reforming local government, we want strong and effective collaboration between all effective collaboration between all the institutions that need to drive for local people. So we will look to make sure that we are strengthening those partnerships, strengthening those partnerships, strengthening those collaborations as both reforms of local government bed in, but also as the general power of competence for these authorities also bed in.

Let me authorities also bed in. Let me turn to now the system of taxi and private hire vehicles. And let me be very, very clear. The current legislative framework for regulating these across England is complex. It is fragmented and complex. It is fragmented and archaic, with some legislation dating back to the Victorian times. The government recognises the The government recognises the challenges that the current licensing framework can cause, including the inconsistency of licensing standards throughout the country and the practice of out-of-area working, where drivers choose to licence in one authority area but work wholly or predominantly in a different authority area.

We know that out-of-area working creates concerns in some authorities about the safeguarding standards applied to some of the drivers operating in their area. This problem was highlighted by Baroness Casey in her recent National Audit on Group based Child Sexual Exploitation and Abuse. By taking a power for the Secretary of State to set national minimum standards for the licensing of drivers of taxi and private hire vehicles, we can begin to tackle some of these inconsistencies. The powers sought are necessarily broad, so that we can make sure that the new powers catch all complexities of the current legislative framework.

National minimum Standards will set a high but proportionate standard for licensing that is focussed on safeguarding passengers and improving accessibility of these services for everyone. This means that people, particularly those who rely on these services the most, such as women and girls and people with disabilities, can be reassured that the drivers such of these services have undergone rigorous vetting where they are in the country, wherever they are in the country. This is an important first step to tackle some of the issues that have arisen from the practice of out-of-area working.

In addition, we will be consulting shortly on making local transport authorities responsible for taxi and private hire vehicles, further strengthening the regulation of this sector. And we will continue to build on these reforms in the weeks and months ahead. And I know that the local transport Minister is looking forward to meeting with unite and other unions and our mayors to discuss options for wider reforms as we go forward. I would like to thank my hon. Friend the Member for Bury North as well, the Member for North West Cambridgeshire and the Member for Hayes and Harlington for their engagement on this issue, and their particular thanks to the hon.

Member for Heywood and Middleton North, for her work with the Mayor of Greater Manchester in pushing this important issue. Turning to the safeguards for local government, Madam Deputy Speaker, local government members should be able to perform their duties without fear for their own safety or that of their families. Intimidation, harassment and abuse have no place in our democracy and I thank the hon. Member for Ruislip, Northwood and Pinner for raising this important issue during committee. The government agrees that making this change to ensure the safety of local local government members is timely and necessary.

We have listened and responded. New clause 45 makes this important change. This amendment puts it beyond doubt that a member or co-opted member's home address should not be published by default. Our provisions will ensure that when a member or co-opted member's home address is entered in an authority's register of interests, public copies of the register must not include their details unless the member requests it in writing. Our provisions to protect local government members go further. They will also prevent disclosure of home addresses when they are declared as interest at public meeting.

These provisions consider the need to balance the safety of members with requirements for high standards and transparency. Local authorities will continue to have access to full address details to prevent conflict of interest, and these interests will remain openly listed to the public and with the details of a member's home address withheld. I would like to put on record. I would like to, in fact, move to another important issue that we discussed during Committee stage. I committed to reflect on the government's policy of local authority, governance and executives.

I'd like to place on record my thanks to the hon. Member for Sheffield Central and Sheffield for Sheffield Central and Sheffield Hallam, for the constructive and Forward its own amendment to schedule 25 of the bill, which in turn amends relevant sections of the Local Government Act 2000. These amendments will affect those councils which have adopted the committee system. More recently, following an either a council resolution or a public referendum. These particular councils will be permitted to continue to operate this governance model until the at the end of their existing

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moratorium period. I will give way. To. My constituency covers two local authorities the Royal Borough local authorities the Royal Borough of Kingston London Borough of Richmond upon Thames, and they both operate a committee and they both operate a committee system and it works extremely well. It's a well accepted by the local community. Both, both local community. Both, both local authorities function extremely well. Why is the government proposing to put in place additional hurdles for put in place additional hurdles for both of my local authorities to continue to operate effectively and efficiently in this way? Yeah.



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efficiently in this way? Yeah. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. Look, we are really clear that our strong preference remains for executive models of governance executive models of governance because we believe that this model provides clearer and more easily understood governance structures understood governance structures and leads to more efficient decision making. But but we also recognise the generally held concerns and particular constituencies where committee systems have just been recently adopted, particularly where public referendums have been held. And this is why we are moving forward this is why we are moving forward with this amendment.

We believe that we are striking the right balance between encouraging a more balance between encouraging a more consistent local authority governance model across the England, which will ensure for better which will ensure for better decision making, whilst also respecting a recent local democratic mandate and vote expectations, as well as reducing disruptions where councils are operating a committee system and are within their moratorium periods. I come back to it. If a council was within its moratorium period, we will allow the transition, but our strong preference is to move towards the Cabinet system.

I will I will make progress. Finally, Madam Deputy Speaker, we have built on the amendments made at committee to the local audit provision. Our further amendments contain technical provisions which broaden the existing regulatory regulation, making powers relating to the payment of allowances to audit committee members to include expenses or gratuities or pensions to members of audit committees across all local bodies within the audit framework. Broadening this power will give clarity to the sector that Renumeration can apply to all audit members, whether independent or not, across all relevant authorities, including the Greater London Authority.

The bill originally required that the Mayor of London and the Assembly jointly appoint an audit committee. However, following discussions on their particular governance arrangements, it has become clear that it would be more appropriate for this power to rest solely with the mayor, consistent with other audit provisions in the Local Audit and Accountability Act 2014. This change will enable the mayor to appoint an audit committee that includes at least one independent member, in line with the requirements set out in the bill.

I want to thank the GLA for its constructive engagement with my officials on these important audit measures in the bill. It is vital that our reforms work in practice for all authorities within the local audit framework. Madam Deputy Speaker, this bill will help build and rebuild local government. It will help fix our broken local audit system and truly empower communities. Our amendments build on these ambitions and ensure that

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the Bill works as we intended, and I commend them to the House. Hey.

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Publication of addresses of members. ET cetera. In authority registers.

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Good morning. Point of order, David Simmonds. Thank you very much, Madam

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Thank you very much, Madam Deputy Speaker, may I seek your guidance at questions yesterday, an issue which I know has been exercising. Mr. speaker, we were told by the Secretary of State in response to a question from the Member for South Shields about a tourism tax that my friend tempts me to venture into terrain that is me to venture into terrain that is properly within the decision making jurisdiction of the Chancellor of the Exchequer. She only has to wait 48 hours to find out what the 48 hours to find out what the Chancellor has decided.

I suggest that she ask the Chancellor on Wednesday rather than me, this Wednesday rather than me, this afternoon, during the course of the debate on this issue yesterday, the Minister opposite, when asked the Minister opposite, when asked the same question by members from Camberwell Green and Uxbridge and South Ruislip, replied they made an impassioned and effective case. But as I said in my opening remarks, I will not pre-empt the Chancellor's will not pre-empt the Chancellor's tax decisions are for the Chancellor and we will have a budget in 48 hours.

Madam Deputy Speaker, I know you and Mr. Speaker have been very exercised by the number of leaks which the former chief economist of the Bank of England described as the single biggest reason why economic growth biggest reason why economic growth has flatlined. You will therefore be concerned, as we are, that a short while ago the government put short while ago the government put out a press release on its website saying that mayors will be given these new powers before that was these new powers before that was briefed to the House, and after repeated comments to this House that Ministers would not answer that Ministers would not answer that question.

Madam Deputy Speaker, what further measures are there what further measures are there open to you and, Mr. Speaker, to ensure that these kinds of damaging leaks, which are undermining our economy and particularly hitting economy and particularly hitting our tourist and hospitality businesses hard, can stop.
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None Portrait Points of Order
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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The hon. Member for his point of order, I'm inclined to the view order, I'm inclined to the view that there are two separate issues here, and he will have heard my earlier comments about statements being made to this House first, and how deeply regrettable it is when how deeply regrettable it is when statements are made to the media ahead of being announced to the House. However, with specific House. However, with specific reference to the Minister's comments of yesterday, I believe that it would far better be that it would far better be addressed as a point of debate, and I'm sure the Shadow Minister will want to raise that later on in this want to raise that later on in this afternoon's debate.

The question is that new clause 45 be read a second time. Liberal Democrat spokesman Zoe Franklin. Thank you, Madam

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Zoe Franklin. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. Today I. Am going to continue to highlight our concerns on these benches that while the Labour government spends a great deal of time telling the country that they are putting power back into the are putting power back into the hands of communities and say they are on the side of local leaders and delivering locally led renewal. and delivering locally led renewal. When you examine the powers this bill actually grants, it is clear very quickly that it risks doing very quickly that it risks doing the opposite.

Through this bill, power is being snatched upwards away from local voices. This bill strengthens combined authorities and concentrates power with a statutory authority mayor at the expense of constituent unitary parish and town councils. It enables key planning decisions to bypass local authorities and gives Ministers sweeping powers to redraw governance arrangements without genuine local engagement. Local leaders see it. Parish councillors see it, residents see it and we on these benches certainly see it. If we are to empower our communities
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Zöe Franklin Portrait Zöe Franklin MP (Guildford, Liberal Democrat)
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as this government promises, this legislation needs to be improved and that is what we are seeking to and that is what we are seeking to do with the amendments we bring forward today, just as we did yesterday. So let me begin with our yesterday. So let me begin with our primary amendment news clause 17. The government really cannot keep coming to the despatch box saying coming to the despatch box saying they want locally led delivery without whilst creating legislation that puts responsibilities on councils without giving them money or support to do the job.

It just doesn't add up. The truth is, doesn't add up. The truth is, without even considering devolution, councils are not funded properly. Currently. Every single one, Currently. Every single one, regardless of political leadership, is under unprecedented strain and many are on the brink of effective many are on the brink of effective bankruptcy. Some have declared section 104 notices and others are warning they may not last the warning they may not last the financial year. Even more are raiding reserves, cutting services to the bone and desperately firefighting.

Rising demand in firefighting. Rising demand in social care, temporary accommodation and children's services. Instead of addressing this crisis with the urgent this crisis with the urgent national level investment the local government has been crying out for for years under both the for years under both the Conservatives and now this government, who seems committed to perpetuating this problem, albeit with a different approach. Giving with a different approach. Giving to one council by taking from another. And we see this clearly in the rather inaptly named fair Funding review, which doesn't actually increase funding from central government, but simply redistributes an already insufficient pot, a winless exercise dressed up as Equality Council leaders from across the political spectrum, are all deeply worried that this bill is a continuation of that same approach.

It asks councils to do more, take on more, deliver more, all without serious new funding models. And nowhere is that clearer than in West Surrey. This government has imposed a new local governance model that local leaders have warned will leave it financially unstable and structurally incoherent. Instead of listening to local authority leaders and residents, the government pressed ahead with a structure that groups multiple councils facing extreme financial pressure. The legacy of current and former conservative administrations leaving the West Surrey Council with roughly five times the debt of neighbouring East Surrey.

And the government's answer to the question of how does West Surrey manage their significant debt and financial instability? Poole their budgets, sell their assets, harmonise council tax, they may as well have suggested tackling the debt with hopes and prayers. You simply cannot redistribute a crisis. You cannot create strong structure on foundations that are already breaking under debt demand and chronic underfunding. And this is exactly why our new clause 17 is so vital today. If you ignore local leaders and refuse to fund local government properly, you do not empower councils.

You set them up to fail. I call on MPs from across this House to back new clause 17 and back our local councils. But funding alone is not enough. Devolution relies on democratic legitimacy and brings me to new clause 35, which safeguards the integrity of local democracy by ensuring that residents can hold their leaders to account at the ballot box. Our amendment ensures that when government structures restructures, local governance, shifts power or redraws boundaries, it must explicitly consider the impact on local elections in Surrey this year.

As in many places, we have seen clearly what happens when elections are cancelled or postponed. The failing conservative administration has been allowed to remain in office not because residents have endorsed them, but because the government and the local conservative leadership came together to deny residents their chance to remove them based on local elections by election results, it's quite clear they would have been removed had the elections taken place in May. In a bill that has new powers to mayors and enables large strategic authorities to override local processes, Madam Deputy Speaker the risk of democratic disruption grows unless protections are built into this legislation.

This is why NC 35 is essential. It ensures no restructured devolution deal or ministerial directive, can deny residents the right to vote and choose their representatives. Moving on to new clause 18 introducing the AV system for relevant local elections. The mayoral election results this year really highlighted the need for a fairer voting system, with one mayor winning on just 25% of the vote. We no longer work in a two party system. An SRV, as proposed in this bill, is designed to force people to vote for one of the two biggest local parties.

People want real choice. AV provides real choice and real representation. I would also add that if first past the post is not fit for mayoral elections, then why should it be fit for any other kind of election? It is time for the government to finally introduce fair votes via proportional representation for electing MPs and local councillors in England as well. And we will be watching closely as you bring forward as the government brings forward forthcoming elections Bill. I hope that everyone here will recognise that democracy only works when people who are elected have the tools, training and support to govern effectively.

This bill expands duties for councillors. It reshapes scrutiny. It places heavier burdens on local oversight and it strengthens audit requirements significantly. Yet nowhere in this bill does it guarantee that councillors or auditors will be given the skills training they need to carry out these responsibilities. That is why we have tabled clause New clause 20, which ensures training for councillors. The foundation of good governance that if Ministers claim they want stronger, more capable local government than supporting NC

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20 is a test of whether they really mean it. hon. Friend. I will give way.

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I will give way. I thank my hon. Friend for giving way. There is another aspect in which this bill is lacking in in which this bill is lacking in Devon, where we have a county and district system. At the moment, the city of Exeter is ruled by a city of Exeter is ruled by a district council, which will be absorbed into the unitary council, leaving Exeter, unlike the rest of leaving Exeter, unlike the rest of Devon, without a town or parish council.

The same thing would council. The same thing would happen in Torbay should Torbay unitary be changed and moved into a wider place, leaving Torquay and wider place, leaving Torquay and Paignton without town councils, whilst Brixham has one. Does my hon. Friend agree with me that my new clause 63, which will require rehashing or introducing town or rehashing or introducing town or parish councils in those areas that lose them in this way, is a good thing, and that will prevent far off unitary councils being overwhelmed by the issues, minutia,

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overwhelmed by the issues, minutia, issues of an individual city. We have a lot of speakers this afternoon. If members are going to make interventions that are very

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make interventions that are very long, we will simply not get through everybody. Zoe Franklin I. Thank the hon. Member for his

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Thank the hon. Member for his intervention and I wholeheartedly agree of the importance of our fantastic parish and town councils, and I hope that members across this House will support this, that amendment. Turning to news clause 70, we have tabled this clause because neighbourhood planning only works if communities can afford to take part without support. Neighbourhood planning becomes a slogan with it, it becomes genuine grassroots devolution. We believe NC 70 plugs that gap and ensures that real community voices are heard.

Finally, Madam Deputy Speaker, the Liberal Democrats are seeking to plug sadly yet another gap that the bill leaves wide open. And again, this returns to the theme of parish and town councils. Currently under this bill, they could be sidelined, merged or absorbed without proper public consultation. NC 14 closes that loophole by protecting parish and town councils being swept aside in the rush to build bigger, centralised combined authorities. If the government claim to trust communities, they must protect the governance closest to those communities and NC 14 delivers just that.

So in conclusion, Madam

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Deputy Speaker, I will give way. I like a lot of what the hon.

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I like a lot of what the hon. Lady is saying because I believe in communities, towns and villages being properly represented. But being properly represented. But also names are important. So as a Surrey MP, will she agree with me that instead of East Surrey and that instead of East Surrey and West Surrey, perhaps West Surrey and South Middlesex is the correct and South Middlesex is the correct name for the new authority because of the area that is traditionally

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part of the county of Middlesex. The hon. Member raises an interesting point, and I think this interesting point, and I think this returns to the theme that we need to allow local communities to have and have say over their own destiny. and have say over their own destiny. So I will leave that to my wonderful colleagues in local government to continue that thought. government to continue that thought. So just in conclusion, Madam Deputy Speaker, we as Liberal Democrats are remain concerned by the many gaps we see in this bill.

And that is what our amendments attempt to is what our amendments attempt to plug, that every single one is designed to strengthen the democratic, localist, community led principles that Ministers say they support. With our amendments, the English Devolution Bill might finally look to provide the devolution that the government keeps on promising us. I urge members across all benches to support these vital amendments and give local democracy the respect, the voice and the power it deserves.

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Thank you, Madam Speaker. Elsie Blundell. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker, I rise to speak to new clause 83 in my name and would like to thank colleagues for their support. I would also like to sincerely thank would also like to sincerely thank the Minister and her team for their consistent engagement with me on this landmark piece of legislation, this landmark piece of legislation, a bill that will be game changing for my constituents in Heywood and Middleton North. Before I cover my own amendment today on forging a own amendment today on forging a fairer, safer and better regulated private hire vehicle sector, I would also like to express my full support for the steps that this government is taking by introducing national minimum standards, we need to rebuild confidence in a system to rebuild confidence in a system that so many view as broken.

It is about giving local leaders power to about giving local leaders power to decide which drivers operate in their area. And most crucially, it is about the safety and wellbeing is about the safety and wellbeing of passengers and drivers. I would like to first consider the problem we face. Many hon. Members will have heard from constituents who have raised legitimate concerns that the taxes are private hire that the taxes are private hire vehicles they see operating in their local area are actually licensed hundreds of miles away.

licensed hundreds of miles away. This is because since 2015, operators have been permitted to contract bookings to another
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Elsie Blundell Portrait Mrs Elsie Blundell MP (Heywood and Middleton North, Labour)
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vehicle that could be licensed in a different area. It has also coincided with the meteoric rise of national operators such as Uber and Bolt, that are permitted to be licensed in multiple areas. The stark absence of any regulation in this space has led to certain local authorities becoming, as GMB union puts it, licensing factories creaking at the seams. Nor example underscores this more vividly than the activities of Wolverhampton City Council in the first five months of last year alone, the council granted over 8500 new taxi licences, 30 times more than any licensing authority in the Midlands.

This has a real and tangible impact across the whole country. Indeed, in Greater Manchester, nearly half of all private hire vehicles are now licensed by local authorities outside its ten councils and the city regions. Out of area figure of more than 12,000 has risen sharply from just under 7000 in 2023. In my own borough of Rochdale, around 40% of private hire vehicles and taxis are licensed out of area. And this is not just an issue of public perception.

This is also about safety and enforcement. For as long as the status quo persists, whereby there are scores of vehicles operating out of area, far from the authority that licensed them in the first place, there will remain a deficit in terms of accountability when incidents take place. I would like to caveat this by saying unequivocally that the vast majority of drivers are law abiding people. They are integral to our economy and to our society as a whole. And I have been delighted to engage with a great number of them since being elected to this place.

But there are situations that arise when enforcement becomes necessary. And at present, licensing authorities like my own are unable to take action because of the proliferation of out-of-area operation across.

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Thank you very much. On that particular point with the member. Agree. My hon. Friend, agree with Agree. My hon. Friend, agree with me that while it is good news to see the government has in the Bill itself proposed now national itself proposed now national standards as part of the proposed government amendments, that the amendment which she is tabling, is amendment which she is tabling, is the other part of the Casey Review's recommendations, without which this House will have failed

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to act on requirements around licensing specified in the Casey review. Friend for his intervention and

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Friend for his intervention and what this government's commitment to national minimum standards is something that I truly support. And, you know, I really welcome today. But raising national minimum standards, in my opinion, must be complemented with a restriction on complemented with a restriction on out-of-area operations so that these new standards can be enforced locally where necessary. And, you know, because there are situations actually, as I was saying, where enforcement becomes necessary. And enforcement becomes necessary. And at present, licensing authorities like my own are unable to take action because of the proliferation of this problem.

Indeed, at a recent meeting of the Transport Select Committee, which is currently holding an inquiry on the currently holding an inquiry on the FPV sector, we heard from a licensing officer from Blackpool Council, he stated when I asked Council, he stated when I asked whether his authority was able to keep track of the drivers operating within it, and I quote, we are now at a stage where provisions on where an operator can operate vehicles do not seem to matter. We are not even in a position where an operator has to have a licence everywhere it operates.

It does not. He went on to say, I know the limitations of my operational enforcement resource. Chasing vehicles all over the country is not something we could deal or cope with. I know from conversations with the council's licensing department in Rochdale that these sentiments are shared there. Two standards are one thing, but without proper means of enforcement, they will not have maximum impact. In terms of public safety, I'd now like to quickly move to the substance of my amendment. Under new clause 83, strategic authorities would have the power to require that journeys that start and end there are fulfilled by locally licensed operators.

It will give local leaders power and the choice to adapt this as they adopt this as a solution or not. Consider together NC 83 and the government's amendments would encourage drivers to licence locally and ensure that if things go wrong, both drivers and passengers have the confidence that enforcement measures will be swift, considered and legitimate in the eyes of local authorities and local people. Reinforced by implementing national minimum standards, these two changes could revitalise the sector and give both drivers and passengers the confidence and certainty they deserve.

In closing, Madam Deputy Speaker, I believe that there are no members present today, no corner of society and indeed no drivers out there in the sector that believe the system as it stands is working well. All the saturated, a lack of local accountability and an erosion of the ties between drivers and the communities they serve. The private hire and taxi sector is critical to our economy and for filling gaps in the local transport network, but for too long, the safety of passengers and the ability of licensing authorities to do their job has been undermined for the sake of a model that is unfit for purpose, we must bring an end to out-of-area and offer the sector the change that it has been calling out for for decades.

The bill is about granting power to local people to make their own decisions, and that will change their communities for the better. And this is such a decision, Madam Deputy Speaker, one that we can no longer afford to avoid. Thank you.

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Maldon Andrew Rosindell. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker

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Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker and I rise to speak this afternoon in support of my amendments. New in support of my amendments. New clause 85 and new clause 86. And I'd like to thank my hon. Friend I'd like to thank my hon. Friend the Member for Harwich and North Essex Maldon Clacton Basildon and Essex Maldon Clacton Basildon and Billericay South Basildon and East Thurrock, Rayleigh and Wickford and Broxbourne for supporting both Broxbourne for supporting both amendments. Now, Madam Deputy Speaker, my First Amendment, clause 85.

This amendment seeks to ensure the boundaries of the ceremonial the boundaries of the ceremonial county of Essex are once again aligned with the historic county, aligned with the historic county, as they were for many hundreds of years. In fact, for well over a years. In fact, for well over a millennium. And it was only in 1964 and 1964 under the Local Government Act implemented in 1965, that that Act implemented in 1965, that that change. So the entire history of the constituency that I represent,
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Andrew Rosindell Portrait Andrew Rosindell MP (Romford, Conservative)
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the constituency that I represent, except the last few decades, has been as part of the historic county of Essex. So my amendment would combine the historic Essex with the ceremonial Essex. And I believe this will end the confusion and allow the people of my county to once again fully celebrate the rich heritage of the County of Essex in its entirety. So, Madam Deputy Speaker, if I may explain a little further, the entire country, the identity of each county is actually very important to all of our constituents.

People are proud of their historic county identity, and it is reflected in so many ways, whether it's through sporting, whether it's social activities, whether it's the church, whether it's the local regiment, whatever it may be, we are proud of our county identity, and it should not be muddled up with administrative councils, which chop and change as we are now seeing again today. So historic and ceremonial counties. That is for cultural celebration, that is for historic purposes. And therefore the Lord Lieutenancies of the different historic counties and ceremonial counties really should be as one.

Now that would end the confusion. And in my borough, which is the so-called London Borough of Havering, and everyone knows if they come to Havering that it's really Essex, it's not London at all. We are constantly confused by where we are, and the people of my borough are tired of this, and they want this muddle and confusion caused by bureaucrats in the 1960s to end, as we a very simple thing to resolve. It wouldn't change. I say to the Minister, any of the local government changes that the government are proposing.

It's nothing to do with local government. This is purely ceremonial and historic. You cannot. Madam Deputy Speaker, have three definitions of counties administrative, ceremonial and historic. The muddle is a nonsense, and we have to end that muddle, and therefore I hope she will consider seriously. And I've raised it with Ministers over and over again in my 25 years as a member of this House, that they should consider putting the historic counties and the ceremonial counties together that deals with the historical and ceremonial side of things, which is part of our identity, completely divorced from any local government boundaries, which may change from time to time.

Now, of course, Essex was founded way back in AD 5 to 7 by the East Saxons. So it's, it's it's 1005, one and a half millennia of Essex. And so you can understand how people in Romford and Havering and indeed in other boroughs the east of the River Lea, frankly don't understand why their identity has been taken away from them. And this does need to be resolved, and I really hope the government will use this opportunity to deal with the ceremonial historic boundaries, which means the Lieutenancies are reconfigured to make sense and to give people back their local identity, especially, as my amendment says in Essex and Essex could be could lead the way.

Madam Deputy Speaker, so that other counties can do the same. Now, if I can refer now to my Second Amendment, which is new clause 86 and new clause 86 is something completely separate. This is about local government. It's not about particular identity. It's not about how counties particularly or anything that I've just spoken to regarding new clause 85, this is purely about local and regional government. So this is administrative. Now in the 1960s, once again, the Local Government Act of 1963, without really the consent of my borough, we were taken out of the Essex County Council area and we were placed under what they called Greater London.

Now, as I've said earlier, we are not really London. We're Essex, we're close to London, we travel to London, we go to London for lots of reasons, but our identity and our heritage is really Essex and I have to say, the the mayoralty of London in the last video has not worked for boroughs like Havering. It may work for inner London, but it really doesn't work for boroughs on the very edge of Greater London, which pay in colossal sums of money and do not get the services that we are funding.

If you come to my constituency, you will not see the police stations we used to have. You barely see a policeman. You will pay the Ulez charge. Even though we have clean air quality, we have the Freedom Pass for our pensioners and rightly so. But we pay extra for that. We don't get that free from Mayor of London. My borough pays into that scheme, so we buy into that system and I have a bill before Parliament to address that issue as well at the moment, to do with transport for London concessionary schemes.

So my new clause 86, what I'm proposing, Madam Deputy Speaker, is to give the people of Havering the right. And we believe in democracy and we believe in devolution. So will the Minister please give my borough the right to make a decision, the right in a referendum to decide whether or not they would like to withdraw from the Greater London Authority, and instead, the residents of Havering would have the option, the option of joining the new Greater Essex Combined County Authority.

Now, I don't deny this needs negotiation. I don't deny this needs reconfiguration. But this is a serious prospect. You cannot be part of Essex for hundreds and hundreds of years and suddenly be taken out of it without repercussions, particularly as what I've explained that the appearances that my borough is effectively subsidising inner London. We have had enough. We want the choice. So if we truly believe in democracy and if this government is genuine about devolution, my borough could easily change and become part of the Greater Essex Combined County Authority.

And all I'm asking, Madam Deputy Speaker, is for us to have that debate and to be given a choice. There are differences of opinion. Some people think we're better off in Greater London. Others think that actually we'd prefer to be part of an Essex authority. But surely every member of this House believes in democracy, do they not? I hope so, and every member of this House should at least allow boroughs like mine, right on the extremities of Greater London, to have that choice.

So I'm asking for a referendum. I'm asking for this to be considered. I'm asking for my constituents to have the democratic right to make the decision about where we truly belong and what best suits our

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local borough. I certainly give way to my hon. Friend. Doctor Ben Spencer. You so kind to give away a thank

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You so kind to give away a thank my friend, if I may say so. My constituency, Runnymede and Weybridge is on the outskirts of Weybridge is on the outskirts of London. We're not in London. We're very much in Surrey. However, we very much in Surrey. However, we suffer from the fact that many decisions affecting my constituents on a day in, day out basis are made on a day in, day out basis are made in London and often to our detriment. Detriment and we have absolutely no control over it.

So I absolutely no control over it. So I recognise the strong point that he's making, but I'm just want to also reflect, even if he is able to withdraw from the administrative unit of London, he will not escape negative decision making by the

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negative decision making by the current Mayor of London. Well, I couldn't agree more with my hon. Friend, and that's why my hon. Friend, and that's why fundamental reform of the Greater London Authority and the Mayor of London needs to take place. I personally do not believe we need a Greater London authority. I believe we should transfer powers back to local boroughs, local towns and local boroughs, local towns and communities, and if we have some kind of authority for London, it should be purely dealing with the should be purely dealing with the capital, which is the central part of London, frankly, you know, do we need a Greater London authority need a Greater London authority that goes all the way from Hampton Wick up to Havering atte Bower, from Ruislip down to Biggin Hill? We don't need it.

It's a complete, unnecessary layer of government. I prefer the authority, the power and the funding to go direct to our towns and our villages and our boroughs that are controlled locally by elected councils, not this huge bureaucracy in City Hall, which is unaccountable, undemocratic and has very little

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support with anyone I speak to. Of course I will. Yes. Alison Bennett, the hon. Member for giving way.

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for giving way. I'm just interested. In how far he would propose that this goes. Would he say, advocate for the

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Would he say, advocate for the well? Yes, I would personally. I personally would if you if, Madam personally would if you if, Madam Deputy Speaker, you undoubtedly will recall, you will undoubtedly, will recall, you will undoubtedly, undoubtedly recall that our former Prime Minister, Margaret Thatcher, abolished the Greater London abolished the Greater London Council. Hon. Member opposite will remember that very well, because he sat on the Greater London Council sat on the Greater London Council at the time. In 1986, the Greater London Council was abolished.

And what happened? The power went back what happened? The power went back to each borough across London. We didn't have to pay this huge precept. We paid our way for policing and fire brigade and things of that sort. But generally speaking, the powers returned, as I hope the Liberal Democrats believe in truly to local communities. So we didn't have this overarching we didn't have this overarching bureaucracy interfering in everything we do, from planning to transport to policing and all the rest of it.

So power locally, surely the Liberal Democrats, I would hope, believe that power would hope, believe that power should be as local as possible. So this overarching bureaucracy in City Hall, which is so unaccountable, really needs to go. And no, I don't believe we need a mayor of London. I do believe we need to have local authorities working together where the strategic things to be discussed, whether it's transport or or planning infrastructure. But we don't need to create this monstrous bureaucracy. And I think Margaret Thatcher was right to abolish the GLC.

And I think Tony Blair was absolutely wrong to bring back the GLA in all the paraphernalia and all the bureaucracy with it. And by the way, a huge costs to the council taxpayers of the Greater London area. So on that note, Madam Deputy Speaker, I ask members of this House to please support new clause 85 and 86 to restore our Essex identity and to give us the

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democratic right to decide our own future. Now, I do think some of those points might have been stretching points might have been stretching my patience on scope somewhat. I'm not intending to put a firm fixed not intending to put a firm fixed time limit on. However, members might like to consider whether they could stay within the sort of could stay within the sort of bounds of about six minutes so that I can get everyone in. John McDonnell I want to.

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McDonnell I want to. Argue the case for Wessex. No no

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Argue the case for Wessex. No no no no no I don't no I don't I originally came in to support my originally came in to support my hon. Friend from Crawley and the amendments that were drafted, amendments that were drafted, amendments 67 and 68, with regard to the licensing of cabs and others. to the licensing of cabs and others. But unfortunately, my hon. Friend from Crawley had problems printing off his speech and his office, and off his speech and his office, and therefore arrived late and was unable to speak directly.

But I'm sure we'll intervene on the subject itself. But it's moved on since we itself. But it's moved on since we first drafted those amendments, and I'm really grateful. What's happened is the government has brought forward a series of brought forward a series of amendments, 49 to 54, I believe, which deals with the national licensing. And I think that's a licensing. And I think that's a huge step forward. My friend from Middleton and Heywood, all the way round. Yeah, eloquently put all the arguments for why why this is needed and moved it on as well, because this outer borough licensing is the big issue that's hitting us at the moment.

The genesis of our our involvement. I'm genesis of our our involvement. I'm a member of unite, and I declare that interests in my register of interest the the engagement that interest the the engagement that the hon. Member for Crawley and I had is that we convened a meeting of cab drivers. All members of of cab drivers. All members of unite and the GMB have taken an important role in this as well. It's the first time I've seen a It's the first time I've seen a sort of united front of cab drivers, black cabs and others.

Drivers represent all sectors of that area of the the economy, and they're united in this one demand with united in this one demand with regard to proper national licensing. At the same time, this out of area provision certainly. provision certainly.
16:25
John McDonnell Portrait Rt Hon John McDonnell MP (Hayes and Harlington, Labour)
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Can I thank my, my friend for, for for his efforts in moving forward with these amendments just to, to relay the key points, I think, on our agreement on this, the key challenge in the current system is since the Deregulation Act 2015, and this is something which is a former member of the licensing committee from 2010 onwards, I sort of direct familiarity with I've seen how the system has shifted. We now have a system in which councils no longer know who is operating in their area and what basis they're operating, what standards they're operating on, and more significantly, have no power to enforce or investigate where things go wrong.

Really, Wolverhampton is at this point needing to go up and investigate the entire country because the way in which systems operating, and if we're not going to have a national system, the only way you can get back to one where someone has a confidence, their door to get into an Uber tonight, the council will know who she is, can intervene if she's in danger, and investigate if something goes wrong. The only way of doing that is by having return to national standards, and by having a situation in which local licensing authorities once again

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are able to control who is starting or ending in their patch. Not people coasting in out of area. Period.

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Period. There you are. You've got a good part of his speech in anyway, which was good. What? What? That's was good. What? What? That's exactly what came out of the meeting with the cab drivers themselves. But also my Fabian Hamilton. They also placed emphasis on the committee report and their concerns. I that's the only point I concerns. I that's the only point I want to make in this debate, really, is that my understanding of what the government's intention is now the government's intention is now is that having inserted into this legislation, the national licensing, there'll be a rapid consultation of there'll be a rapid consultation of how that's going to work, that that will be excellent.

But then with regard to the out of, out of regard to the out of, out of location, facilities, etc. there will now be further discussions will now be further discussions about the exactly as my my hon. Friend on the front bench made about the whole licensing regime about the whole licensing regime for cabs because, as she says, it goes back to the horse drawn hackney carriage in the in the 19th hackney carriage in the in the 19th century. It's that old, that legislation. But there'll be a consultation on that.

The one point consultation on that. The one point I want to make is that there's a matter of urgency here. Everyone I've spoken to is feels there's a I've spoken to is feels there's a matter of urgency because the vulnerability of passengers and exactly has been said, the vast majority work in this sector will have provided good service. That's why they're lobbying so hard for national standards. But there are some rogue, there are some rogue operators, and that's putting people at risk. And we're as good as our last serious case of abuse in the system itself.

That's why I'd like to emphasise to the government there is a matter of urgency here. If it requires a separate piece of legislation, as I'm advised, it must probably will. We need to ensure that we spoke to the Leader of the House and I think on a cross-party basis, we'd give that legislation some legislative time and priority to, to to bring it forward, because I think the dangers are so are so hefty. The final point for me on New clause 13, which some of my friends will be talking about, I just want to say that what that reflects is what's happening outside of this house, which is about a movement in local communities to have more control of their local community, particularly local environmental controls, I have to say.

And I for the life of me, I don't understand why the government is resisting new clause 13, but maybe the spirit of it can go into the next place, because all it's asking for is a review of how the Localism Act has worked. I supported the Localism Act. It was about empowering local communities, the movement that's building now to assert control of their local areas, I think is significant. The government needs to take that into account. And maybe as this debate moves forward, the government will look more appreciatively on an amendment like new clause 13.

In

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the other place. Munira Wilson, thank you very much, Madam Deputy Speaker. I rise much, Madam Deputy Speaker. I rise to primarily speak to two amendments tabled in my name new clause 26 and amendment 82, both of which are related to the changes the government is proposing to the the government is proposing to the assets of Community Value System. Now, many members across this House will know from their own communities that playing field space is at a premium. My constituency of Twickenham is no different.

Fantastic local grassroots sports clubs run by dedicated local volunteers like the dedicated local volunteers like the cygnets, which now has over 300 girls on its books, regularly playing football and now adult playing football and now adult women to Twickenham Tigers and Hearts of Ted Lothian's, all local football clubs which are desperate football clubs which are desperate for pitch space, as well as Tunisians Rugby Club amongst others. These groups are struggling to meet These groups are struggling to meet growing demand because they simply cannot find the space to train and play matches, and at a time of the play matches, and at a time of the twin public health crises of obesity and poor mental health, we must do everything we can to must do everything we can to promote and support young people in particular, but also adults to play particular, but also adults to play sport for the immense physical as well as mental health benefits that it brings.

Yet, Madam Deputy
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Munira Wilson Portrait Munira Wilson MP (Twickenham, Liberal Democrat)
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Speaker, sitting in my constituency are the much loved Abney Park Playing Fields, a 13 acre war Playing Fields, a 13 acre war memorial playing field which has scandalously lain derelict for over scandalously lain derelict for over a decade now. I don't have the time, sadly, to bore the house with a long and sorry tale of how we ended long and sorry tale of how we ended up with prime playing field space, which were donated in 1919 under which were donated in 1919 under the covenant for playing of for the playing of amateur sport going to wrack and ruin.

However, since wrack and ruin. However, since Imperial College decided to sell the site in 2015, successive developers have purchased the site developers have purchased the site at overinflated prices and quite rightly been unable to develop it due to the various important due to the various important protections afforded to the site. This site has been designated an Asset of Community Value and Asset of Community Value and despite huge efforts by the local community to buy the land whenever community to buy the land whenever it has been put up for sale by its owners, the two successive owners have refused to agree a price and have refused to agree a price and sell to the community, meaning the precious playing fields and pavilion have degraded over time.

pavilion have degraded over time. So I warmly welcome the new community Right to Buy provision in community Right to Buy provision in this bill. However, it does not go far enough in actually empowering communities to buy precious sites such as Abney Park and NC 26 would further strengthen the proposed powers where dormant assets are concerned. Now, while the bill, as drafted, introduces a mechanism for independent valuation where a price cannot be agreed between the seller and a community group buyer, it remains silent both on how that evaluation, how that valuation is achieved, and what can be done if the seller repeatedly refuses to sell at what is determined to be market value.

Now, on the point of independent valuation, I would like to have seen written into this bill an explicit clause that removes hope value where an existing playing field is being purchased by a community group to continue using it as playing field space. But alas, I was told by the clerks that this was firmly out of scope, and the government refused to back a similar amendment that I tabled at the to the Planning and Infrastructure Bill, NC 26, however, provides a mechanism to enable a local authority to engage the compulsory purchase function in the event of an asset of community value lying dormant for five years or more despite a market value offer as determined under 8060 through an independent valuation from a community group has been rejected, and if the seller has been unable to agree a sale with an alternative buyer.

Madam Deputy Speaker, extending the right to buy power in this way would prevent developers land banking in the hope of a change of legislation and precious, desperately needed sites like Dudley Park playing fields lying derelict and unused when many, many hundreds, indeed thousands of local residents, young and old, could benefit from them. It would focus minds and encourage the owner to sell when they get a fair market value offer from a community group. This amendment, together with amendment 82 tabled in my name, will help boost access to more green spaces and grassroots sports facilities at a time when demand is growing, not least following the amazing successes of the Lionesses and the Red roses this summer, I and my Liberal Democrat colleagues have been very concerned by the government's removal of Sport England of its role in national policy.

Amendment 82 would support local authorities by ensuring that they have the funding necessary to assess land in their area for eligibility as a sporting asset of community value. As I said at the outset, sport is such an important tool in the fight against the mental and physical health crisis facing our young people and adults, and amendment 82 simply ensures that lack of funding will not be an obstacle to protecting what will be vital sporting assets of community value. So I hope that Ministers will take these amendments seriously, and I look forward to hearing their response.

Finally, Madam Deputy Speaker, I'd like to briefly touch on the amendments from the Member for Brighton Pavilion, amendment 94 and consequential amendments, as well as amendment four, tabled by the Member for Ruislip, Northwood and Pinner, which both achieve the same objective. My council, the London Borough of Richmond upon Thames, is run through the committee system and has been extremely effectively since 2019, in line with its commitment to democracy and transparency. I completely refute the minister's earlier comments that a committee system means that a council will not be run efficiently or transparently, never once in the last six years since we've had a Liberal Democrat council running on a committee system, have I ever heard a member of the public say to me, I don't understand how decisions are made, and we are actually running so efficiently that this government has decided to punish our council by cutting their core government funding in a devastating way, which is going to have a massive impact on services.

So I completely refute her suggestion that a Cabinet executive model is the way to go. All elected councillors in Richmond are involved in the decision making process, rather than having the Cabinet, executive and backbench structure. This government feels it is its prerogative to to to dictate from Whitehall overriding democratically elected councils. It is a blatant misuse of of Ministers authority to do that. So I hope this government will think again, if not today, than when this bill goes to the other place, because it's absolutely outrageous overriding local authorities in this way.

They should be given the power and the freedom necessary to shape and provide local services the way they choose. After all, that's what they were elected by

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our residents to do. And Sadik Al-Hassan. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker,

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Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker, and I would like to speak on clause 34 as raised by the hon. Member for Mid Leicestershire, who rightly raises the issue of councillors standards and calls for regulations to establish a recall process for to establish a recall process for those councillors who have breached their codes of conduct. Although a poignant point, having served as a town councillor and deputy mayor myself before election to this myself before election to this House, I believe we must go further.

I strongly support this bill's aim to standardise the structure of to standardise the structure of local government and particularly welcome the reform of our local audit system as outlined in these provisions. I also commend the government's recent announcement regarding new powers to suspend councillors for up to six months for serious misconduct and the introduction of a mandatory code of introduction of a mandatory code of Conduct across all types of local authorities in England. These are essential first steps that I wholeheartedly welcome and know from my experience are much needed.

However, I urge us to go further by introducing a dedicated Local introducing a dedicated Local Council Standards Bill that addresses the full breadth of accountability challenges that residents face with town and parish councils or very local councils.
16:37
Sadik Al-Hassan Portrait Sadik Al-Hassan MP (North Somerset, Labour)
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The Localism Act 2011 created a legislative vacuum by abolishing the Standards Board for England and repealing powers to suspend councillors who breach standards, councillors who breach standards, as very local councils are to play an increasingly larger role in devolution of local services, it is devolution of local services, it is essential that councils are held to the same high standards, and that this critical issue receives the this critical issue receives the detailed parliamentary scrutiny it deserves. As one of my constituents and a former parish councillor put and a former parish councillor put it, councillors have little incentive and no mandatory training requirements.

Having witnessed first hand these challenges in local and very local councils, I local and very local councils, I believe we must robustly tackle those who bring the reputations of those who bring the reputations of councils into disrepute, undermining the already fragile trust in local politics and doing trust in local politics and doing profound disservice to the overwhelmingly overwhelming majority of councillors who serve majority of councillors who serve their communities with integrity and dedication. The ongoing recruitment crisis for both town recruitment crisis for both town and parish clerks and councillors is directly linked to the lack of is directly linked to the lack of effective recourse against unacceptable behaviour.

There are councils that have gained a local, and in some cases national, reputation for dysfunction. The result some councils are resorting to offering wildly increased salaries, representing what amounts to for staff danger money for having to deal with toxic behaviours. Experienced qualified clerks who serve as impartial legal advisers tasked with ensuring councils operate lawfully, are subjected to behaviour that would be would not be tolerated in any professional environment. The loss of these valuable professionals weakens governance and standards across the entire sector.

It is to that end that I propose we should go on to create a dedicated Local Standards Bill that establishes a comprehensive framework for local council accountability. This should include professional regulation for councillors with robust oversight mechanisms. Beyond the mandatory code of conduct, it should establish a properly funded model for monitoring officers through professional regulation fees paid by councils, similar to the current mandatory external audit fees. Ensuring these vital guardians of standards have the capacity to perform their function effectively and consistently across all local authorities.

A compliance scoring system would provide transparent indicators to the public about whether their elected representatives are undertaking best practice and demonstrating financial competence with taxpayers money. National internal audit parameters. Building on the audit reforms outlined in this bill would ensure transparency and consistency of governance standards across all very local councils, regardless of their size or location. Additionally, the annual Governance and Accountability Statement should include a proper officer declaration confirming where councils have chosen to ignore or disregard professional legal advice, particularly where this represents a breach of their legal obligations.

Such accountability, made visible, visible and measurable, would help to restore public confidence in local governance. While the announced reforms begin to address this issue, the complexity and importance of comprehensive rebuilding the standards infrastructure merits dedicated legislation. We cannot allow the minority who tarnish the reputation of the sector to continue creating disparity in community benefit, or to drive experienced professionals from their roles. I wish to emphasise that there are very many local councils across the country and in North Somerset that are governed extremely well and genuinely enrich their communities.

But as we move forward with devolution, we must ensure that town and parish councils are functioning effectively, operating in line with legislation, delivering value for money for their residents and taking heed of legal advice given to them by their proper officers. Madam Deputy Speaker, we have the opportunity to rebuild trust in local and very local politics, ensuring impeccable standards and levels of accountability. I would welcome the opportunity to work with the government on developing such legislation so that the standards in our very local councils mean a

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better deal for residents. And with an immediate five Spencer.

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Spencer. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. So yesterday, my hon. Friend and constituency neighbour for constituency neighbour for Spelthorne asked the Minister, Will Surrey get a mayor and didn't Surrey get a mayor and didn't really get much of an answer, and we can only imagine what said the government over the past year to get cold feet in the election of mayors going forwards. And so I want to talk about a new clause one and amendment two in the name of and amendment two in the name of the official opposition member for Ruislip, which is about consent for change.

Surrey and others have been change. Surrey and others have been working with the government to maximise the opportunities of maximise the opportunities of devolution locally. Now, as part of that, there's been quite a debate over the unitary model, whether over the unitary model, whether it's two or 3 or 1 unitary. Now, on the face of it, ideally one would the face of it, ideally one would go for one unitary in terms of savings, but the government has decided that that's not possible. And so through various processes And so through various processes and decisions now have been made to have two unitaries.

This has all
16:43
Ben Spencer Portrait Dr Ben Spencer MP (Runnymede and Weybridge, Conservative)
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have two unitaries. This has all been done in pursuit of a mayor. A mayor will make a big difference in terms of ensuring that Surrey can really, as the government puts it, unlock devolution. And it's frustrating that we've got to this stage and all this work's been done, but there's still been absolutely no firm commitment that a mayor is going to come for Surrey, particularly when a unitary model is being adopted purely for the purpose of seeking a mayor, but actually a better model locally would be a single unitary.

So I'm sure the minister's concerned Ministers nodding she can. I'm sure she can see the conundrum and the frustration, the fact that the mayor hasn't been announced as yet, and I have huge benefits in terms of leading on strategic projects such as the scheme, which I've been trying to push to be built as soon as possible in terms of health accountability for integrated care boards. Again, something that I've been calling for on transport locally. I've been calling for a duty to coordinate, which I think would also be able to with with powers be able to deliver for Surrey in housing.

I'm preventing local inappropriate development, which is blighting areas across Runnymede and Weybridge and will affect both the East and West Unitaries when they're set up in policing. Given that the government's announced that they're going to wrap up the PCC, we need a mayor so that they can take on these roles, that the cut off date of 2028. So can I please, please peg the Minister to announce, either in winding up or written minister's statement or otherwise, a confirmation for a Surrey guaranteed at next year's elections will go ahead and to explain how my constituents can be shielded from

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other councils debt as part of unitary reforms, which are going ahead. Thank you. Sam Carling.

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Sam Carling. Thanks, Madam Deputy Speaker. And can I first just say that I strongly support this bill, which I strongly support this bill, which I was proud to serve on the Bill Committee for, and which will deliver an enormous transfer of power out of this place and into power out of this place and into our local communities. As a former councillor, I know that trusting local representatives to make decisions about local services and decisions about local services and issues leads to much stronger outcomes.

I want to speak very strongly in favour of the strongly in favour of the government's new clauses 49 through 57, which provides for the introduction of national minimum standards for taxi licensing. I'm standards for taxi licensing. I'm delighted to see the government bring forward these measures, which I and others, many of whom have spoken in the room today, have proposed to tackle the huge problem we have with cross-border licensing, an issue for both taxi drivers and passengers. Right now, local councils have significant flexibility on taxi licensing flexibility on taxi licensing policy without a baseline, meaning you get huge variance between councils.

Yet drivers can operate councils. Yet drivers can operate anywhere once licensed. And unsurprisingly, this creates huge demand for licensing from councils demand for licensing from councils with lax standards. Wolverhampton has become the UK's taxi licensing has become the UK's taxi licensing hub in the first five months of last year. As my hon. Friend mentioned earlier, it issued over
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Sam Carling Portrait Sam Carling MP (North West Cambridgeshire, Labour)
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8500 licences, more than 30 times any other council in the Midlands, and from April 2023 to March 2024, 96% of licences went to people living elsewhere. Wolverhampton living elsewhere. Wolverhampton licensed taxis now operate nationwide. In Manchester, a third of taxis are registered there 80 of taxis are registered there 80 miles away. And this isn't driver's fault. It's understandable to seek out the best deal possible, particularly if it's cheaper or if processing times are faster. But there are several problems here. Firstly, drivers who do the right Firstly, drivers who do the right thing and register locally are undercut by those going to councils with weaker standards, creating a with weaker standards, creating a race to the bottom that harms both drivers and passengers.

And we must really emphasise that drivers want really emphasise that drivers want to see this fixed too, so that rogue operators can be dealt with. This is a real democratic deficit. Local authorities can't regulate their own standards effectively. They're losing control, as indeed seen in Peterborough in my area, where plans for CCTV in taxis had to be dropped because locally licensed drivers would pay more, licensed drivers would pay more, while others avoided the cost by licensing elsewhere. And climate and emissions aims are undermined too.

Peterborough City Council won't license a vehicle that is over nine years old, but Wolverhampton allows cars up to 12 and there's a lot of variants on that. I will give way.

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I'm sorry to have give way with all that about giving Wolverhampton a bashing. They haven't advertised this. It's just they were dealing with it efficiently and drivers

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with it efficiently and drivers went to them. It wasn't their fault. No, I very much recognise what my hon. Friend has said, and I've my hon. Friend has said, and I've very carefully drafted this speech to avoid actually attacking Wolverhampton in any way, because I recognise it's very complex as to recognise it's very complex as to how we've gotten into this situation. But and if this goes on to my next point, actually to my next point, actually overstretched councils cannot monitor, let alone enforce, conditions on drivers operating hundreds of miles away.

If there's an incident in in my constituency in north west Cambridgeshire with a driver licensed halfway across the driver licensed halfway across the country, there's no way that the council they're licensed with can properly investigate and do something about it. It would be something about it. It would be like asking Police Scotland to go and investigate something in Cornwall. It just doesn't make Cornwall. It just doesn't make sense. And thirdly, there's a huge safety issue. Some councils have less stringent DBS check requirements, are cheaper or have requirements, are cheaper or have no requirement for CCTV or emission compliant vehicles.

So when there are incidents, both passengers and are incidents, both passengers and drivers are left without adequate protection. This was a key point of the recent Casey audit on child sexual exploitation and abuse, which identified that some councils go beyond statutory guidance as a go beyond statutory guidance as a means of tackling sexual exploitation, but were hindered by a lack of stringency from other authorities, and this problem was also raised in the Jay Inquiry in 2014 as child sexual abuse in Rotherham as well.

This rings true with calls from all sectors, including from trade unions such as unite and the GMB. And I declare that I'm a GMB member on their long running campaigns around this, and I want to pay tribute to those campaigns. I'm delighted that the government has listened to me and others on this, and adopted the proposals that have been brought forward during Committee stage. I look forward to seeing the detail of what the government proposes for national minimum standards, and I will continue to engage closely.

And at this point, Madam Deputy Speaker, I was going to talk about how it's also very important that we consider the issue around raising the licensing authority. Level two, strategic authorities and transport authorities. So it was brilliant to hear the Minister say just now that we're going to do a consultation on that, because that's the other key part of this story. And together those two measures could have a profound impact on dealing with the issues in this sector. I will now turn very briefly to other amendments.

I wholeheartedly welcome the government's new clause 45, which will remove the requirement for local councils home addresses to be published given the security environment. This is excellent news. I'm aware over the past few years of more than one incident in my own region of councillors home addresses being publicised maliciously online by bad faith actors, encouraging people to intimidate them in their homes. And indeed, that has happened in my region on several occasions. So this will have a tangible impact on keeping safe, dedicated volunteers from our communities who are trying to do what's best.

And finally, new clause 79 from my hon. Friend, the Member for Dunstable and Leighton Buzzard talks about establishing local accounting offices and public accounts committees in each mayoral strategic area. And this is something that the government has been talking about for some time. And there's a lot of support, I think, for these committees to hold local spending to account and provide some real oversight. So I'd appreciate some thoughts from the Minister and her winding up on why the government isn't perhaps bringing that forward at this time, and whether it's considering doing so more broadly.

So to conclude again, Madam Deputy Speaker, I really welcome the bill. We went through it line by line in committee, so I know what a difference it will make. Transforming local government, pushing power out of this place, and empowering communities to make decisions that make sense for their areas. As with the last Labour government, we are spearheading the devolution we need to unlock growth and opportunities that have for too long been overlooked.

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Alison Bennett. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. My amendment number 34 to this bill My amendment number 34 to this bill is simple but vital. It would strengthen all of our communities abilities not only to bid for abilities not only to bid for assets of community value, but to make informed, responsible make informed, responsible decisions when doing so. At present, communities have a right to bid, yet absurdly no guaranteed right to yet absurdly no guaranteed right to view. We ask our town and parish councils to act as prudent stewards councils to act as prudent stewards of public money, to conduct surveys, secure financing and follow proper decision making processes.

Yet we decision making processes. Yet we deny them the basic opportunity to inspect the very asset they may be inspect the very asset they may be committing taxpayer funds to purchase. This is impractical, illogical and unreasonable. A illogical and unreasonable. A recent case in my constituency of Mid Sussex illustrates the problem well. Hurstpierpoint and Sayers Common Parish Council sought to bid for a former church building listed for a former church building listed as an asset of community value. I can attest to the value that this
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Alison Bennett Portrait Alison Bennett MP (Mid Sussex, Liberal Democrat)
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building served to the community for. When my children were tiny, they went there during the week as it served as their pre-school, and I must say that pre-school was and still is a wonderful facility led by Sam, and I'm still grateful to the staff there for the support and the best start they gave my children throughout the six month moratorium. Despite repeated requests, the parish council was refused access only after the moratorium ended when the property was placed in an auction did the auction house permit inspections.

This left the council with just two weeks to carry out surveys, complete its internal procedures and secure Public Works Loan Board financing. No responsible authority could compress such due diligence into that timeframe. Predictably, the parish council was unable to bid and the building an asset that they could have afforded based on the eventual sale price, has now passed into private ownership and has been converted into flats, removing a much needed community venue from village ownership. My amendment 34 would correct that oversight.

It would simply guarantee that community buyers have an early and fair opportunity to view an asset so they can undertake proper due diligence. It imposes no unreasonable burden on vendors. It merely ensures a level playing field. If we believe in empowering communities, if we believe that assets of community value should genuinely remain available to those communities, then we must give them the practical tools to act. A right to bid without a right to view is a hollow promise. I urge the Minister to support this amendment and give our councils and the communities they serve, a fair chance to preserve the places that matter

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most to them. Thank you Beccy Speaker. I very much welcome this

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I very much welcome this devolution bill, and today I am. Speaking in support of the government's new clause 45, government's new clause 45, amendments 153 and amendment. 107 proposed by my hon. Friend, the proposed by my hon. Friend, the Member for Stroud new clause 45 and amendment 153 both relate to the essential role of our local

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essential role of our local councillors. As a. Councillor and leader. Of Worthing. Borough Council, I can attest to

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Borough Council, I can attest to how hard my fellow councillors. Work for very little remuneration, contrary to public remuneration, contrary to public perception, and how much they contribute to the health and wellbeing of our local communities. As my hon. Friend has already alluded to, as the temperature has risen in politics in recent years, risen in politics in recent years, these local residents who have put themselves forward with the aim of contributing positively to their communities, have increasingly communities, have increasingly found themselves in the target of online and in-person abuse.

And online and in-person abuse. And whilst this is no more acceptable for them than it is for us in national politics, we must do all national politics, we must do all that we can to ensure that they and their families are safe, and it is therefore good to see this recognised and new. Clause 45 recognised and new. Clause 45 proposing that members home addresses will no longer appear in published registers of interest. Amendment 153 acknowledges the different forms of Council structure that currently exist, and there has been some debate on this already today.

My constituency of Worthing West houses two councils. Worthing Borough Council is a leader and Cabinet system. Arun District Council is a committee system. Again, as a former council leader, my preference and
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Beccy Cooper Portrait Dr Beccy Cooper MP (Worthing West, Labour)
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experience tells me that the leader and Cabinet system is highly effective. But I do acknowledge that the committee system can that the committee system can potentially allow greater involvement in decision making across the councillor groupings. So across the councillor groupings. So with this in mind, I am supportive of the intent stated stated in amendment 153 that if the Local amendment 153 that if the Local Authorities Committee system is protected, then a review should be undertaken to see if it is in the best interests of that local authority to move to the leader and Cabinet system.

For my constituency, which is also undergoing local government reform, alongside moving to a devolution model, our councillors in Worthing and Arran councillors in Worthing and Arran will need to consider the best option for the area as part of our new unitary authority when these new unitary authority when these footprints are agreed. And finally, amendment 107 asks that environmental interests be environmental interests be considered as a criteria for community right to buy, provided that the land is not allocated in that the land is not allocated in the Local Development Plan, it is positive to hear from the Minister today about the protections for local sports grounds, the environmental wellbeing of local communities, alongside economic and social benefits, is an area of social benefits, is an area of interest close to my heart.

As a public health consultant living on the South coast, Worthing has the the South coast, Worthing has the smallest amount of green land per head of population in the UK, less than a snooker table per person. We have limited green land left in our constituency's urban areas and even though we are undoubtedly blessed with the English Channel to the south and the South Downs to the north, people do not live in the sea and very few of us live in our national park. Our well-being is therefore determined by our densely populated urban strip bordering the coastline.

Our remaining green spaces in this area are incredibly precious for our mental health, our physical health, our air quality, and our climate mitigation measures. Green spaces can help to reduce our ever increasing flood risk. I, therefore, would welcome any additional guidance from the Minister in this area for our current and soon to be devolved regions such as my own in Sussex. The health of our population should be our number one priority and devolved government is ideally placed to help deliver these much needed protections and improvements

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for our communities. Thank you. John Milne.

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Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I'm speaking to amendment ten A in my name. The word devolution may be my name. The word devolution may be in the title of this bill, but not everything in the bill actually lives up to that name. In many respects. This bill actually takes respects. This bill actually takes power further away from the people back towards the centre. If I look at my constituency of Horsham, which will be affected by devolution and local government reorganisation, as with my reorganisation, as with my colleague from Worthing West, I am particularly concerned about the particularly concerned about the fate of key community assets across Horsham District.

Parish councils run much loved services including run much loved services including parks, village halls, allotments and sports fields. And for the town and sports fields. And for the town itself, the jewels in the Crown are the council run Capital Theatre and Horsham Park. Why do we still have Horsham Park. Why do we still have a theatre when so many others have closed down? It's because Horsham closed down? It's because Horsham Theatre has been owned and run by Horsham people and their local council. The two tier local council.

The two tier local government system was never designed as a means of protecting community assets, but in practice community assets, but in practice that is how it worked out because as a side effect, it separated and saved at least some local services from the bottomless pit, which is the send an adult social care budgets in upper tier authorities. Ring fenced budgets such as leisure and culture have over the years been put to the sword. So if Horsham had been run entirely out of West Sussex County Council for the last decade, with no district council, we would surely have lost
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John Milne Portrait John Milne MP (Horsham, Liberal Democrat)
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our theatre years ago. Sold off to plug ever growing holes in the plug ever growing holes in the county budget, and that would have been a sacrifice for nothing, because the reality is that the send and social care deficits can never be met by council tax contributions alone. One day soon, contributions alone. One day soon, the government is going to have to recognise that. So how can we protect our much loved community assets in this devolved new world? Access to secure funding is always Access to secure funding is always going to be a key part of it.

This bill is a key opportunity to ensure town and parish parish councils can access a simplified funding access a simplified funding pipeline at a time when community community assets need most community assets need most protection. Smaller councils have not had ready access to government growth funds, such as the Community growth funds, such as the Community Renewal Fund, Levelling Up Fund, Towns Fund UK SPF or the Community Towns Fund UK SPF or the Community Ownership Fund and there is no clear replacement now.

As it stands, clear replacement now. As it stands, town and parish councils have their hands tied when it comes to supporting community assets. supporting community assets. Section 137 of the Local Government Act 1972 gives a power of last as a power of last resort councils to act with no other statutory power applies. However, there are strict controls around this, including a spending cap of just £11 per ten, £11.10 per hectare, and that's a serious limit on their ability to intervene usefully.

So I'm delighted to say that Horsham people and councillors have now just voted to set up a new town council ready to take on and protect community assets, but they're going to have to do it on a much smaller tax base than currently, and that is a challenge. A community asset, of course, could be a pub, a community hall, an allotment or a village green. Only local people know what really matters to them, and only local people can be trusted to keep the faith.

The democratic, democratic gap that has been opened up between town and parish councils and unitary councils is vast. The new unitary system will leave English people with arguably the lowest percentage of local representatives per head of any Western European country. Now that is the opposite of devolution. I therefore urge the Minister to support this amendment to strengthen access to community ownership funds. This needs active thought. Otherwise, we're going to see much loved assets vanish as mere collateral damage of a wider scale reform.

It takes decades to create these oases of local culture,

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and just a few short years to destroy them. Thank you. Yeah. Abtisam Mohamed.

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Yeah. Abtisam Mohamed. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I'll be speaking to government amendments 152 and 153. I want to thank the Minister and her predecessor, the hon. Member for Oldham West and Royton, for Oldham West and Royton, for responding to our concerns at the outset of this of the English devolution Bill as we reach the end devolution Bill as we reach the end of this debate. For this Bill, I've been struck by how significant this moment is for local democracy and for communities like mine in for communities like mine in Sheffield, where residents want a referendum into how the city would be run, whether they chose to adopt be run, whether they chose to adopt the committee system of governance, and where they secured a democratic mandate to change the culture of mandate to change the culture of the Council.

When the bill was introduced, both I and my hon. Friend, the Member for Sheffield Friend, the Member for Sheffield Hallam, along with the leaders of Sheffield Council and grassroots campaigners, made the case for our constituents decision to be respected by incorporating Sheffield's example into legislation. As a result, legislation. As a result, government amendments 152 and 153 now provide the legal basis for now provide the legal basis for what Sheffield has decided and in turn protect the democratic process. Amendment 152 clarifies that the
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Abtisam Mohamed Portrait Abtisam Mohamed MP (Sheffield Central, Labour)
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Amendment 152 clarifies that the committee system can operate where it already exists, and amendment 153 sets out how a council like Sheffield can continue that operation through review, and an option to confirm that it should remain. These amendments mean that our system of governance is both recognised and protected. For Sheffield, this means confirming that our referendum result was not only just symbolic, it was an expression of democratic choice. It also means that now that choice is honoured, not overwritten and it is now recognised in law.

So I want to end by acknowledging the collaborative work that has brought us here. We have spoken constructively for many months with campaigners from our city and Sheffield, who have been instrumental in ensuring Sheffield's voice was heard with local government leaders who have taken on the mantle of embedding a culture of inclusivity, inclusivity and opening up local decision making, and with Ministers to ensure that this bill protects the system chosen by our residents and offers the legal clarity needed to support effective local government.

For Sheffield, this is the right outcome. Finally, I'd like to show my support in relation to cross border taxi licensing on new clauses 6768 and 168. In the name of my hon. Friend the Member for Crawley and clause 83. In the name of my hon. Friend the Member for Heywood and Middleton North, I'll declare my interest as a member of two unions, GMB and unite, who I know have been actively campaigning on this issue. All of these amendments strengthen government's new clauses 49 to 57 on setting national minimum standards for private hire, but they go further in explicitly ending out-of-area taxi licensing, which is an issue which is repeatedly raised by my constituents.

It's an issue that's been raised by the Transport Select Committee, as well as Baroness Casey's recent review. However, constituents have contacted me to urge a slight caution on some of the wording in relation to new clause 83, especially section 55 C, to ensure that it doesn't lead to the prevention of legitimate cross-border journeys such as airport journeys. To echo the words of Sheffield residents, this is a decisive moment with the potential to resolve a problem that has undermined public safety and the integrity of our licence system.

For far too long.

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Manuela Perteghella thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I'm pleased to speak to several amendments to speak to several amendments tabled by myself and by my Liberal Democrat colleagues, which relate to community assets planning and to community assets planning and local democratic engagement. These are practical proposals designed to strengthen the community strengthen the community empowerment provisions in the Bill and make them work in our and make them work in our communities. The bill removes the long standing duty for councils to publish notices in local newspapers in a constituency like Stratford-on-Avon.

This is a serious concern. Not everyone is online, especially in a rural villages where digital connectivity is still patchy and many older is still patchy and many older residents rely on the local newspaper for essential information. Printed notices remain one of the Printed notices remain one of the clearest ways that residents hear about planning applications. Road closures, licensing changes and closures, licensing changes and council decisions that affect the daily lives. They also support a daily lives. They also support a local press sector that has played a vital role in maintaining transparency and scrutiny, and transparency and scrutiny, and informing citizens.

So I've tabled amendment 28 to keep that requirement in place. It is a requirement in place. It is a simple safeguard to ensure that residents are not excluded from the democratic process because they
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Manuela Perteghella Portrait Manuela Perteghella MP (Stratford-on-Avon, Liberal Democrat)
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happen to live in an area where poor broadband or simply prefer print. Turning to community assets print. Turning to community assets have tabled amendment 30 and 32 because the current system contains because the current system contains a glaring flaw. Once listed, an asset of community value drops off the register automatically after five years, regardless of whether five years, regardless of whether it is still important to the community. For many villages and towns, the asset might be their towns, the asset might be their local pub, the Village Green, the village hall or a community shop.

These remain part of the fabric of local life for decades, yet community groups often discover only after the fact that the listing has expired and they have lost the right to bid amendments. lost the right to bid amendments. 1332 would remove the automatic expiry so that protection does not vanish simply because of a vanish simply because of a bureaucratic deadline has passed. It shifts the burden away from volunteers and neighbourhood groups, and ensures continuity for assets that people rely on. It is exactly that people rely on.

It is exactly what the purpose of the community value regime was meant to achieve. Linked to this amendment is Linked to this amendment is amendment 33, which concerns planning decisions affecting assets of community value. At present, even if an asset is listed, there is no obligation for planning authorities to give that status. Special weight. Communities see treasure buildings or spaces demolished or redeveloped because, despite having been taken, the trouble to secure recognition. Amendment 33 would allow the Secretary of State to issue guidance requiring planning authorities to consider community value properly and give this weight when determining applications.

New clause six goes one step further in safeguarding these community assets. Once listed, it gives local councils a clear duty to oversee how land of community value is managed. If an owner lets the land fall into neglect or deliberately runs it down to justify redevelopment, councils would have the tools to intervene, including compulsory purchase when necessary. It creates real accountability for absentee owners and ensures the assets meant for community benefit remain so in practice. Taken together, these amendments reflect a simple principle devolution cannot just be about shifting powers upwards to remote, large combined authorities.

It must also strengthen the tools available to people and places. At the most local level, communities know best what matters in their area. They should not have to fight to keep their village or their community green space because of arbitrary deadlines or loopholes in planning policy. Local people have the ability to revive and strengthen the places they call home, but they can only do that if power is shared with them, rather than concentrated in the hands of a few distant mayors.

If Ministers are committed to meaningful community empowerment, they should take these proposals seriously and accept them, along with a wider set of amendments tabled by my Liberal Democrat

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colleagues. Thank you. With an immediate four minute time limit. Olivia Blake.

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time limit. Olivia Blake. Madam Deputy Speaker, I want to place on record. My sincere thanks to the Secretary of State and Ministers.

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Secretary of State and Ministers. For the constructive. And open and thoughtful way in which they have engaged with myself which they have engaged with myself and my colleague, the Minister for central, but also local leaders from the council in Sheffield from the council in Sheffield throughout the passage of this bill, to solve an issue of great importance to my constituents and importance to my constituents and more broadly, the Bill and its amendments today marks a significant step forward for local significant step forward for local democracy in Sheffield and beyond.

It strengthens community voice, empowers local leaders and brings empowers local leaders and brings decisions closer to people. They affect. Its commitments is to clearer, more responsive pathways clearer, more responsive pathways for devolution, something we can all celebrate. It also tackles big issues such as the national issues such as the national standards that we need to see in taxi licensing. And I should declare an interest as a member of declare an interest as a member of the GMB who have been campaigning on this issue for many years, and on this issue for many years, and also issues around the very tricky issue, which I'm glad the Ministers have grasped the nettle on around have grasped the nettle on around local government audit, which those of us who have served previously on the pack know has been an issue for many years.

I'm especially pleased that the government has tabled amendments 152 and 153, allowing Sheffield to retain its committee system not just for a protected period period, but beyond this. This reflects the core principle of effective devolution, enabling local areas to shape the governance structures that best suit their needs and democratic traditions, especially when there has been a referendum, as in Sheffield. And I want to pay tribute to the residents who tirelessly advocated for this and worked alongside us to find the best possible outcome.

For Sheffield. The committee system agreed by referendum is rooted in transparency, cooperation and collective decision making and embodies the values our residents strongly support. It is particularly important moment as it highlights the positive partnership that can be built between central government and local people. It shows what meaningful devolution shows what meaningful devolution can achieve, focusing on shared goals and delivering the best outcomes for our communities, and outcomes for our communities, and that the government has listened and Sheffield's voice has been heard.

This is a transformational heard. This is a transformational bill and I'm confident it will help local leaders deliver on our values, priorities and aspirations and priorities and aspirations and those aspirations of the people that they serve. And I'd like to thank all the campaigners, thank all the campaigners, including those involved with our city, for campaigning on this issue for many years, but also in for many years, but also in response to this bill. Thank you, Sian Berry.
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Siân Berry Portrait Siân Berry MP (Brighton Pavilion, Green Party)
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up with a better plan of the government's own choosing. This is quite reasonable and I very much quite reasonable and I very much support it. I do not, I'm afraid, have time to go through the many other amendments that I support, other amendments that I support, but I do feel like consensus around many issues is breaking out in this room, as it sometimes did in the room, as it sometimes did in the bill committee. However, I do want to single out new clause ten from to single out new clause ten from the hon.

Member for South Devon around a community ownership fund around a community ownership fund and new clause 19 that asks for the alternative vote for mayors, not the supplementary vote. The the supplementary vote. The alternative vote in single member elections gives real choice. You simply choose your candidates and simply choose your candidates and rank them. No secondary second guessing about who might be in the second round, and a guaranteed second round, and a guaranteed consensus driven majority for the winning candidate. The government really should consider this more really should consider this more broadly.

Indeed, as some members have noted, I talked many times about being a London Assembly about being a London Assembly member holding a mayor of London to account with a dedicated, funded scrutiny body. The government scrutiny body. The government should pay much more attention to scrutiny within this bill at the next stage. Thanks to a former next stage. Thanks to a former colleague for hearing me there. But I do want to talk about governance systems and the committee system as well. My number one goal with all of this was to try to keep the committee systems, as amendment four from the Conservatives sets out and my amendments 94 to 102 amendments I put at committee seeking to protect, protect existing committee systems, particularly those chosen by the people from a petition and referendum process, as happened in Sheffield.

This was driven by people of power and I know the hon. Members for Sheffield Hallam and Sheffield Central have also put the very strong cross-party views of Sheffield's councillors, who who now approve and accept the committee system and talk about how, in their evidence to the committee and to the to the House, how much they value it. I'm very pleased that the government's amendments, 152 to 155, do the same groups with my amendments for debate today, the case for protecting committee systems is so clear, the Local Government Association stood up to Pam Cox in their statements as well.

And I'm pleased the government has accepted that, that councils operating committee systems now, and those who resolve to renew or maintain them in the period in which the Bill is being commenced, before the Bill is commenced, before the section of the bill is commenced, can can keep this model for good. I think this is a very big change and I'm happy to voice good appreciation when good scrutiny leads to good outcomes on things like this.

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Doctor Simon Opher. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. Can I thank the Minister who was Can I thank the Minister who was just there anyway for taking time to meet with me and discuss my amendments 107 and 108, which amendments 107 and 108, which concern the community right to buy. This is actually one of the most exciting, empowering pieces of exciting, empowering pieces of legislation coming from this government. And for the first time, communities will be given a genuine first opportunity to buy and own the places that matter most to them.

Instead of seeing valued community assets sold off to the highest assets sold off to the highest bidder, residents will be able to step in, organise and take ownership from themselves. So this ownership from themselves. So this is truly transformative. In Stroud, community ownership is really essential for maintaining services essential for maintaining services and the environment for rural villages and towns. Community owned village shops like in Horsley and village shops like in Horsley and Colton. Actually my favourite shop in the world in my village of Uley which is run by fabulous volunteers, which is run by fabulous volunteers, keep the village alive and actually provide access for older people and people without transport.

Village pubs are dying off and there's campaigns in my area to keep the campaigns in my area to keep the Rose and Crown in Nympsfield open, and in fact they've succeeded in making a community pub in Arlingham
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Simon Opher Portrait Dr Simon Opher MP (Stroud, Labour)
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making a community pub in Arlingham at the Red line. And then there's community rooms like the Trinity Rooms in Stroud, where they're fundraising. The community are trying to buy it and they're hoping to buy it by Christmas. So this is all very exciting. There's also land, which is aptly named The Heavens in Stroud, and also Rodborough Fields, which are being purchased by the community. And so this bill will finally give legal backing to these campaigns. But there's one important improvement, I believe, that we can make as drafted, the bill refers to social and economic interests when defining assets of community value, but it leaves out environmental interests.

This means wildlife rich spaces cannot be protected even when they provide major community benefits, including access to nature and improvements to wellbeing. My amendment would simply extend the community right to buy to include assets that further the environmental well-being of local communities, granting communities the ability to buy and, importantly, safeguard nature rich areas if they come up for sale. Now, I I'm a GP and I use social prescribing extensively. Walking in nature is a proven way of getting better without using pills, so I would very much urge the Minister to to listen to what we're saying and also the, the, the, the Member for Worthing West quite rightly said that this is about public health.

So I know that some members are concerned that these powers will give a sort of house blocking something to block the house building that we also want. So that's why my amendment provides a safeguard in restricting the eligibility to land, which has not been allocated for development for the local plan. So, Madam Deputy Speaker, this bill represents the biggest transfer of power out of Westminster for a whole century. It will give communities the right to shape, to buy and to rebuild.

And in Stroud we are ready to embrace that opportunity. But we must ensure that law properly recognises environmental value alongside social and economic well-being. That's why I urge this government to support my amendments, to ensure that this bill delivers the fullest

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possible benefits for communities up and down the country. Thank you Caroline Voaden. Thank you. Madam Deputy Speaker,

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Thank you. Madam Deputy Speaker, I'd like to speak to the amendment tabled in my name, new clause ten, which would require the Secretary which would require the Secretary of State to re-establish the Community Ownership Fund to which strategic authorities may apply for strategic authorities may apply for funding. And we have heard from lots of members in the House today about the value of their local community owned businesses. community owned businesses. Community owned spaces are of immense economic and social value to their local area.

The community ownership model has meant that ownership model has meant that these businesses across the country are defying the odds. At a time when small businesses in retail and hospitality, particularly, are struggling to survive. And according to Plunkett UK, whose work in this area I commend work in this area I commend business survival rates for community businesses remain exceptional, with a five year exceptional, with a five year survival rate of 97% radically higher than the 39% survival rate of private, small and medium of private, small and medium enterprises over the same period.

These thriving local enterprises These thriving local enterprises then reinvest back into their communities, creating a positive cycle. They also provide exponential benefits to local areas exponential benefits to local areas and the people that live there. They tend to source goods and services locally, creating a circular economy and the places they exist. They support charitable activity, provide fundraising for local causes, as well as improving the aesthetics of our towns and villages through gardening initiatives, improving the quality of our green spaces, encouraging
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Caroline Voaden Portrait Caroline Voaden MP (South Devon, Liberal Democrat)
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more people to get outdoors, and improving arts and culture. From pubs and shops to community centres pubs and shops to community centres and hubs, these spaces are the pillars of their communities, bringing people together and nurturing a shared pride in their nurturing a shared pride in their town or village. They are the difference between a bunch of difference between a bunch of houses and a genuine community. At a time when community cohesion is frayed, division is commonplace and frayed, division is commonplace and we are being pulled apart by dangerous individuals who are seeking to widen the cracks that are showing in our society.

These community spaces offer a way to reunite communities through reunite communities through something as simple as providing a place for people to meet, to talk to each other. Community spaces to each other. Community spaces combat this increasing division with social interaction, enabling communities to come together to communities to come together to celebrate where they live. Sorry, I'm trying to cut down my speech. I'm trying to cut down my speech. Community owned spaces also provide a wide array of volunteering opportunities, employing over 20,000 volunteers across this country, from young people right through to older people.

And in a through to older people. And in a recent survey by Plunkett, 58% of these businesses stated that older people will benefit most from their presence. And in rural areas like South Devon, this is especially important where isolation can come with living far from neighbours in rural areas, and in many ways these places help to strengthen the very fabric of rural life for these people. But it's not easy for a community to buy a building or space that is at risk of closure or has been left unused, which is why the Community Ownership Fund is vital, as government funding is desperately needed to enable a sustained increase in community ownership.

A community ownership fund would develop a larger pipeline of start up groups and build the capacity and confidence of these groups to progress to the trading stage. If it was reopened, it would have a transformational impact in enabling the spread of community spaces and the extensive benefits they bring. In the three years since the Community Ownership Fund was in place, it saved thousands of cherished community sites which were at risk of closure. Thanks to the fund, community groups could generate income, build financial sustainability and strengthen community ties.

It is the government's own mission to double the size of the co-operative sector. As set out in their manifesto. It is time, therefore, for them to correct their mistake, fulfil their promise and seize the opportunity this Bill presents by backing my amendment, new clause ten and reopening the Community Ownership Fund. Thank you Maya

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Ellis. Thank you. Madam Deputy Speaker. I come again to this. Discussion with a huge passion.

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Discussion with a huge passion. For devolving power to. Local areas. The Northern Powerhouse. Promise. Encouraged me to move back. Home to the. North from London.

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Home to the. North from London. In my 20s. And I'm so proud. To have spent. Most of. My career between then.

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My career between then. And now, working. To. Grow the local economies in Manchester and Lancashire. The city of Preston.

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The city of Preston. Part of which is in my. Constituency now. Has the telltale. Cranes all over the sky. And grade-A. Office space being built at pace.

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Office space being built at pace. Growth is best when it has local inputs and local impact, and with a two hour train journey to London, two hour train journey to London, there is no reason that Preston and cities like it shouldn't become a key and critical. Spoke of our national growth story, and so I'm national growth story, and so I'm hugely grateful to the incredible energy of my hon. Friend the Member for Peckham, and also to my hon. Friend, the Member for Oldham, who poured himself into this bill for the past year for ensuring areas like Lancashire can get the powers they need to turbocharge their growth the way only Lancastrians know how.

But today I rise to speak about new clauses 63 and 75 and about new clauses 63 and 75 and amendments 42 and 150, especially those pertaining to neighbourhood governance. I'm grateful to have been part of the Bill committee for this bill, and I have sat through lengthy debates on all of these clauses. I've not directly supported this range of amendments, but concern concerning
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Maya Ellis Portrait Maya Ellis MP (Ribble Valley, Labour)
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but concern concerning neighbourhood area arrangements and parish and. Town councils and I, on the whole, understand and largely support the government's arguments against them, namely, that if we are intent on devolving power, we should allow local areas to manage that power too, rather than dictate from Westminster how that must be managed. However, I do wish to raise a number of areas where I agree with the intent behind these amendments and would like to add these to these issues they raise in the hope that government can add some helpful secondary legislation or strong guidance to the hope local areas in the hope that local areas make these changes.

Success. As I observed during the development of plans for devolution in Lancashire, I heard too many residents and organisations tell me that their consultation in the process felt tokenistic at best, if there at all. I think there is still a broad question for government to answer as to how we will ensure that the interests of all residents and local groups have been properly fed into local changes, and how we will continue to hold local areas to account for maintaining that engagement. In my constituency of Ribble Valley, I have many parished areas, while other parts of the constituency have local community groups who come together ad hoc.

So I do see the strengths of both formal and informal community leadership. I myself have been a proud member of my local parish council for many years, and often it's the place I feel most connected to my community. The Minister has made clear throughout the development of this bill that town and parish councils will not be affected, and indeed have every right and opportunity to take on more responsibilities through this new bill. I commend that, and I thank her for protecting this vital part of our democracy.

But while I understand that there is plenty of public sentiment against mandating areas to become parish, which is why I can't support directly new clause 63, there is certainly public support for simplified, clear to understand structures of government which the public can more clearly hold to account. Indeed, the government's own White Paper on this bill said its aim was to simplify local government and make it more consistent. We only have to look around us to see what happens when people don't understand how our governing structures work and don't feel connected to them.

People are increasingly disillusioned, and when our economy is relying on people to come together with new ideas to create growth, despondency is our biggest enemy. And so my ask is that while we need to allow flexibility, might government be able to show a clear preference for a town or parish council structure in its guidance, and or ensure or require that any proposed solution has clear democratic accountability? I'm so grateful to this Labour government to have been brave enough to push this Bill as one of its first priorities.

Done is better than perfect for sure, and any devolution is better than none. But in my decades working with all types of communities, often hearing things that challenge some of my progressive dreams and assumptions for this country I love. I have learned that progress and tradition can work hand in hand if we take the best on both. And so I urge the government to make the most powerful structures we have in town and parish councils part of our future, which already run 90% of this great country.

And to ensure that we truly have accountable democracy at every level so that

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every person has a voice, as has always been the Labour way. Thank you. He limits is now three minutes

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He limits is now three minutes minutes. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker, I'd like to speak in favour of new clause 38 tabled in my name. This clause seeks to introduce measures to prevent developers using their own surveyors, who have a vested interest in downgrading agricultural land so as to secure planning permission, particularly for solar farms to build all over for solar farms to build all over our countryside, taking farmers land and livelihoods. This has been born out of a specific issue raised born out of a specific issue raised by my constituency in Washford.

I have a farmer called Mr. Dibble. No have a farmer called Mr. Dibble. No kidding, who has a farm in his family's name? They have been there for generations. Some time ago, developers came to see him with a plan for development over it. He refused. His lease is guaranteed for another generation, but the for another generation, but the solar farms developers didn't seem to care. He reached out to me because of the unfairness of this because of the unfairness of this situation, and I was shocked to find out that the developers had organised a surveyor to visit his property and had deemed it subpar property and had deemed it subpar agricultural land.

To anyone with eyes, they can see that this is not the case. Farmer Dibble wouldn't be the case. Farmer Dibble wouldn't be able to grow the crops he has on that land, and had it been the quality they say it was, his land
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Rachel Gilmour Portrait Rachel Gilmour MP (Tiverton and Minehead, Liberal Democrat)
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quality they say it was, his land is grade 1 or 2 at the very least. And yet we have sayers coming, surveyors coming in, paid for by the developers to say, surprise, surprise, it's grade three at best. However, the moment local authorities hands are tied, they have no powers to order independent assessments of land quality, nor the ability to pass judgement on the assessments made by others. My amendment would seek to give them that power by new clause also seeks to enshrine the practices of land use framework for planning and development decisions.

I, along with many others in this place I'm sure am still waiting to hear the results of the consultation from Defra, but I hope it follows the principles set out by my hon. Friend the Member for Taunton and Wellington. If a development is proposed for agricultural land that falls outside of the land use framework, and there are competing assessments of the agricultural grade of that land, then this new clause gives local authorities the power to demand a new, independent assessment of land quality is undertaken.

This would stop the railroad rolling, eroding of farmers and help to preserve the good agricultural land, rather than seeing it built over our farmers. My farmers are my our future. I call on hon. Members to back this new clause and new clause 17, which

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is tabled in the name of my party. Thank you. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I've tabled new clause 13 to address a slight oversight in this address a slight oversight in this bill, namely that despite its title, it does not actually give communities any substantially new communities any substantially new powers. The strengthening of local people have at their disposal to purchase assets of community value purchase assets of community value are certainly very welcome progress, yes, but not fundamentally new. New clause 13 is intended to fill in this minor accidental absence, with a requirement on the Secretary of State to report on progress towards, State to report on progress towards, and set out plans to deliver a new Charter of Community rights containing seven key elements a right to a clean and healthy environment, a right to a healthy home, a right to play, a right to grow food on public sector land, a grow food on public sector land, a right to roam and swim, a right to participate in shaping decisions, shaping communities, and a right to shaping communities, and a right to challenge local decisions designed to put power back in the hands of ordinary people.

The charter offers ordinary people. The charter offers a starting point to restore popular agency in our democracy. Each of the seven rights contained within the seven rights contained within it is based on clear legal proposals, and each builds upon long standing demands stretching back into England's history to take them briefly. In turn. Madam Deputy Speaker, after years of scandals with ordinary people powerless to
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Chris Hinchliff Portrait Chris Hinchliff MP (North East Hertfordshire, Labour)
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with ordinary people powerless to stop sewage being pumped into local rivers, or their children being poisoned by the air they breathe, the right to a clean environment would give every community the power to challenge proposals, threatening to impose pollution on them. Similarly, the right to a healthy home would put an end to the era in which permitted development rights have been used to create the slums of the future, housing the most vulnerable in society. Without adequate space security, fire safety or proper ventilation.

With this right, communities could require the new housing delivers the basics of a happy, healthy life with plenty of natural light, access to green

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space and comfort in all weathers. Will my honourable thank you, thank you. Neil Duncan-Jordan. I thank my hon. Friend for

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I thank my hon. Friend for giving way. Does he agree that housing is a key determinant of public health, and we should see it? public health, and we should see it? A right to decent housing as a crucial part of any civilised society?

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society? I thank my hon. Friend for that and absolutely agree. The freedom to go out the front door and play to go out the front door and play in the street or near home is no longer a part of many children's lives, as it used to be, so the right to play would reverse the trend of estates full of signs shouting no and do not, which have more space given to car parking more space given to car parking than playgrounds for kids.

It would empower communities to ensure streets are designed to be safe for children, so they are no longer stuck indoors. Next Madam Deputy Speaker. Ever since, landowners in the 18th and 19th century the 18th and 19th century privatised away 7 million hectares of common land once shared by ordinary people. The ability to ordinary people. The ability to grow your own healthy food has been a distant dream for millions. The right to grow food on public land right to grow food on public land would unleash the power of grassroots growers, currently held back by bureaucracy, to turn parcels of unloved land across our parcels of unloved land across our communities into oases of food and wildlife.

Similarly, whilst most of England is still owned by a handful England is still owned by a handful of aristocrats, oligarchs and corporations, the vast majority are prevented from enjoying the glories of vast swathes of England's countryside. The right to roam and swim would finally recognise that this land is our land. And would everyone the confidence to reconnect with nature by enjoying a responsible ramble or dip in their local river? Finally, the right to participate in and challenge decisions would level the playing field between the communities who care deeply about their local area and the interests of profit seeking developers.

These rights would ensure that the voices of ordinary people are properly heard, and that they can appeal decisions just as developers can, so that local councils always listen seriously to both sides, rather than acceding to the whims of overmighty corporations. Madam Deputy Speaker, I hope this the Minister will see that new clause 13 would help ensure that this bill goes as far as possible in restoring power, hope and optimism to our communities. And I look forward to hearing her response.

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Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. When people get in a taxi or a

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When people get in a taxi or a cab, they want to know that they'll be safe, that the vehicle is safe, that the driver has had training that the driver has had training and a range of different situations, and that their specific access needs or disabilities will be recognised and supported and that recognised and supported and that they will be treated with respect. And of course, the vast majority of And of course, the vast majority of drivers and their cars and treat their passengers with respect and their vehicles are safe.

But passengers want to know that should they have any concerns or complaints, there's a transparent complaints, there's a transparent and accountable method for them to be dealt with and that they know the name and unique number of the the name and unique number of the taxi operator and the driver, should they need it. We're certainly grateful.

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certainly grateful. Does she therefore agree that the cross-border licensing problem is causing huge problems with enforcement? Because authorities

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enforcement? Because authorities that are miles away can't properly investigate issues? My hon. Friend is absolutely correct. There are, and that is another issue that has come back into our inquiry. And I do hope
17:34
Ruth Cadbury Portrait Ruth Cadbury MP (Brentford and Isleworth, Labour)
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that the government is also addressing the cross-border issue. And I will come back briefly to that shortly. But what people want to know and what passengers want to know, that the same standards apply across the country. But, Madam Deputy Speaker, there are no common standards. In fact, in England there are 270 different licensing offices and over and the 300,000 drivers are operate under about 230 different sets of conditions and standards. The Transport Committee is in the middle of an inquiry on taxis and private hire vehicles.

We've heard from drivers, their unions, operating operating operators, licensing officers, the local government association, disability organisations, the Suzy Lamplugh Trust and others. And the single most common message we've heard in our inquiry is the need for common standards across England and not basic minimum standards, but high and absolute standards. So that's why I'm delighted the government have brought forward the amendments 49 to 57 and schedule three to this House to be added to the bill. It will enable the Secretary of State to prescribe standards and for granting, renewing, suspending and revoking driver and operator licences.

It enables actions such as what is included in driver training, such as, and perhaps requiring the installation of specific equipment such as CCTV or the level of background checks on drivers, which, by the way, particularly on CCTV, protect drivers as well as passengers. I also welcome that the government is responding to the calls of many, and no less, the issues raised in Baroness Casey's report. The that the government has just published guidance. Sorry, the last government set up a task and finish group, but that government just published guidance on a set of standards for taxis and private hire vehicles.

They ignored the recommendations of the group, saying that licensing authorities should have regard to standards, that government ignored the call. This government is delivering. One of the main issues raised in raised during our committees in current inquiry is that the current variation in standards encourages licence shopping, refers to drivers or operators, chooses to choosing to be licensed in local authorities that have the least onerous standards, or the cheapest or the fastest processes, even if most, if not all, of their work takes place elsewhere.

Thanks. And this happens thanks to the 2015 deregulation that the conservative government brought in, according to at least one taxi firm that submitted evidence, the lack of a national standard undermines passenger safety, fair competition and public confidence in the industry. I do want to touch on the role of councillors in licensing decisions, because we've been told that councillors who are who are responsible for individual decisions on who gets, retains or lose their licence may be put under pressure to make a decision

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contrary to recommendations of officers. Neil Duncan-Jordan. Thank you,

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Neil Duncan-Jordan. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker, I welcome the opportunity this debate offers to lift our eyes to the bigger picture, to what a better, fairer country to what a better, fairer country might look like. New clause 13 The Charter for Community Rights, tabled by my hon. Friend the Member for North East Hertfordshire does exactly that, and it represents the exactly that, and it represents the sort of change my constituents in Poole are crying out for. It rests Poole are crying out for.

It rests on two simple but transformative principles. Firstly, that communities in England deserve a communities in England deserve a real say in the places they live, with a legally enshrined right to challenge local decisions that challenge local decisions that shape their lives, and secondly, that people should enjoy basic rights, including the right to a clean, healthy environment and the right to a decent home. Madam right to a decent home. Madam Deputy Speaker, A legal right to a quality home within a healthy environment might not sound like a lot to ask in the sixth richest country in the world, but it is a country in the world, but it is a million miles from the lived reality of so many of our constituents poor housing, alongside access to decent healthcare, stable incomes and healthy food is one of the core social determinants of ill health, enshrining the rights to a healthy environment and a quality home in law would support the kind of cross-government approach we cross-government approach we urgently need to reduce health inequalities, and these rights can inequalities, and these rights can be seen in the same vein as the long awaited socio economic duty, long awaited socio economic duty, which requires public authorities to consider how their policies and decisions can reduce inequalities.

Properly implemented, it could help address structured, avoidable address structured, avoidable disparities in housing and health, and I urge the government to and I urge the government to introduce that duty as a matter of urgency, because a Labour urgency, because a Labour government must raise the bar, not just simply building more housing, but the kind of better homes in but the kind of better homes in decent communities at a price that people can afford. That should be people can afford. That should be our legacy to future generations.

And it can start now.
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David Simmonds Portrait David Simmonds MP (Ruislip, Northwood and Pinner, Conservative)
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most dramatic, not the most glamorous part of our state, but day to day reflected in the contributions from hon. Members and right hon. Members across the chamber. It probably has the most important impact in our constituents lives. But as we heard at the Bill Committee and as we've heard in the amendments and the debate that's taking place, our local government is under unprecedented pressure due to this government's poor decisions. And if we consider the track record of my party in office, we saw local authorities using their discretion.

But for the most part, seeking to keep council tax low, implementing the additional revenue from projects like the New Homes Bonus, the Council Tax Freeze grant, the approach to Business Rate Grant to support local businesses and local communities. Today, with few exceptions across the sector, we see local authorities facing the maximum possible council tax rises. The maximum possible business rate increases, the maximum possible increases in fees and charges. Against a backdrop where housing delivery, housing delivery supposedly this government's top priority has collapsed.

It's collapsed despite the fact of a legacy of 1.5 million new homes, the government's entire target for the whole of the parliament, with planning permission already granted under the opposition when in office. So all of this green belt, grey belt nonsense, Madam Deputy Speaker, which has caused such concern and anxiety to members and our constituents, all entirely irrelevant when they already have an entire Parliament supply of homes ready with planning consent to build and the jobs tax. It's left our local authorities net £1.5 billion worse off.

That's driven up the cost of almost every local government service, from care of the elderly to care of vulnerable children, to the day to day maintenance of our roads and our environment. So tonight, Madam Deputy Speaker, what we have before us is this government's botched and incoherent restructuring. No clear vision of what local government in England is even for. And when we consider the votes that we are going to push tonight on clauses 69 on election cancellations and clause 80 on statutory notices, they are amongst a very extensive list of options.

And we've heard from 1 or 2 members that the retention of the committee system, where democratically approved locally measures adopting the proposals of the opposition on councillors addresses make some minor improvements to this legislation. But the example of the cancellation of local elections is a clear mess of this government's making. We support our local colleagues in making the very best of a very difficult set of decisions that they have to take, but having been told by Ministers, as we did in office, that elections to local authorities that were due to be abolished would be cancelled, that was not, in fact, what the government then did.

They simply deferred those elections for 12 months, making the waste of taxpayers money and the concern of local residents even greater, whilst also raising the prospect of a lack of accountability as this important process goes through. So let me be clear. It is the position of the opposition that those local

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elections should go ahead. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But we will support our colleagues in doing the very best colleagues in doing the very best they can for their local constituents with a mess that's been created by this government. been created by this government. And on statutory notices, we continue to support the existence of a vigorous and democratic local media that are able to hold local authorities to account and ask the authorities to account and ask the right questions. But as I say, Madam Deputy Speaker, those are just a few amongst the many issues just a few amongst the many issues that we could seek to press to the vote this evening, even if all of the amendments were accepted, this bill would still fall very far bill would still fall very far short of a vision for the renewal of local democracy in England.

It of local democracy in England. It is a bill that undermines local leadership. It is a bill that opens the door for Ministers to foist tax rises on local taxpayers, to bail out their failures on things like out their failures on things like asylum and housing. It fails to grasp the many opportunities to unleash house building and growth, led by local people who know their led by local people who know their areas best. And turning briefly to this issue, Madam Deputy Speaker of the tourist levy, which has been the subject of a point of order, it is a very serious question for this House, as we are seeking to rely on the information that we are presented with to be told that matters which are relevant to this bill, which have been raised in debate about this bill on the floor of the House yesterday by both the Secretary of State and the Minister, that they could not answer those questions.

They could not tell this House what the government's policy is, because it had to be left for the Chancellor to then discover a whole set of Labour mayors who appear to have been briefed in advance that this policy was to be announced. Yeah. Who have then gone on the record saying what a wonderful idea it is. And it certainly begs the question. Madam Deputy Speaker, as with local elections, where what the government actually did is quite different from what they promised on this issue of the tourist tax, where the Minister in charge said he did not support it, he felt the sector was already overtaxed, that they are now implementing a tourist tax without even having the courtesy to tell the House that it was coming, a policy which is even supported by the reform benches and all of those businesses out there in the hospitality and tourist sector, will doubtless be looking to see which, if any party is willing to stand up for their businesses in this chamber.

And I Madam Deputy Speaker I'll give way.

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Sian Berry many thanks to the to the Member for giving way on the tourist tax. The Minister at the tourist tax. The Minister at the beginning of this debate failed to tell us how this was going to be brought forward in legislation, and brought forward in legislation, and with all the opportunities that were had during committee and during the debates on this bill and the announcement coming yesterday, the announcement coming yesterday, does the does the member think this was merely a case of failing to get the Chancellor's attention?

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the Chancellor's attention? David Simmonds Madam Deputy Speaker, the question that's put is, Speaker, the question that's put is, was it simply a failure to get the Chancellor's attention? Well, clearly the Chancellor has been very busy at every possible very busy at every possible opportunity, briefing the press about things that may or may not be in the upcoming budget. We've seen in the upcoming budget. We've seen the impact that that has had driving up government borrowing costs, driving down business costs, driving down business confidence, driving unemployment up every single month since this every single month since this government took office.

These political briefings have real world political briefings have real world consequences for our constituents livelihoods and for all of those livelihoods and for all of those business owners in the hospitality and tourism sector who have been seeking to make decisions to rely on what they've heard Ministers on what they've heard Ministers tell the House, they discover in a press release that this new tax is due to be imposed on them, despite the previous assurances of the tourism Minister is just one in the many nails in the coffin of the British economy that are represented in this legislation and in this government's actions.

So, in conclusion, Madam Deputy Speaker, when we look at this bill, what we see is legislation that makes a complete mess of local democracy, elections cancelled, then deferred announcements of new mayors that then don't make it through to the final announcements about new structures. It is a bill which takes powers away from communities and gives them to mayors who, as we've heard earlier on in the debate in the case of Surrey, may not materialise at all. It devolves nothing of any significance closer to our constituents, and it seeks to make our local elected councillor brethren simply hosts of talking shops rather than decision makers for their local community.

And worst of all, despite the government's occasionally lofty rhetoric, it abolishes 90% of the representation of shire England at the stroke of a bureaucrat's pen. Where is the voice for our constituents in local government government?

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Yeah. Fahnbulleh. Yes.

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Yes. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker, with the leave of the House, I will respond to the thoughtful, constructive and robust interventions from hon. Members across the House. But let me start across the House. But let me start by a theme that was raised yet again by the Member for Guildford and the Member for Ruislip and and the Member for Ruislip and Northwood and Pinner. This theme that this is a centralised bill that seeks to take power away from communities and impose on communities.

I completely and utterly reject this. I made this utterly reject this. I made this point yesterday and I will labour it again today. This represents the biggest transfer of power from biggest transfer of power from Westminster and Whitehall to our regions, our local authorities and our communities, because we believe our communities, because we believe that the way that we change the country is by putting power in the hands of people who know their hands of people who know their patch. That is the principle behind that bill, and that is the thing we are determined to deliver.

Let me are determined to deliver. Let me address this point that has been raised in new clause 69 head on
17:51
Miatta Fahnbulleh Portrait Miatta Fahnbulleh MP, Parliamentary Under-Secretary (Housing, Communities and Local Government) (Peckham, Labour )
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raised in new clause 69 head on around local election delays. Look, we understand the democratic necessity to hold elections. That is the right of voters. And it we ab protect and that we absolutely support this House are up for elections as much as any other party. So our clear intention is to press ahead with elections next year. The decision to postpone elections is never taken lightly and was not taken lightly when it was made. It is one that we will always do with great caution.

It's one that we want to avoid, but we cannot accept the amendment because it is neither irrational nor a reasonable one. It does not allow that there might be extenuating circumstances at the national level, for example, a pandemic or exceptional circumstances locally that create a challenge to holding elections. So whilst we are keen and we are determined to press ahead with elections, we are the government of the day. So we will always take a considered and a reasonable approach to this matter.

Let me address the point that was raised by the member of Guildford Guildford. That is a new clause 17 on funding of strategic authorities, and the member was right to highlight the pressure local government is under. But I do point out and I think again it is complete cheek by the party opposite. That is a consequence of 14 years of austerity, 14 years of underinvestment. He talks about the plight of local government, yet fails to recognise the terrible inheritance that his party left.

The huge legacy of denuding and and and undermining local government that we are now trying to rectify. So last year, 20 2526, local government finance settlement provided 69 billion for councils, a 6.8% increase in the core spending power for local government. We are moving to multi-year budgets, we are moving to consolidated funding and we're moving to a fair funding review, all in order to reverse the decline and the underestimate of the party opposite. Now look on the I will make progress because we're almost timed out on the key question of funding of our strategic authorities.

Look, we absolutely recognise the vital role that strategic authorities and mayors can play. We are seeing this across the country. This is why we support evolution to mayors and strategic authorities, and to the point that was made in terms of Surrey by the Member for Runnymede and Weybridge. We want to see strategic authorities and mayors across the country, including in Surrey. But we are also clear that if we want them to drive the change that we believe that they can drive, then we must equip them with the resources and the power to do the job that is required of them.

So I have a lot of sympathy for the tension between nuclear 17. But as I said yesterday, there is a new burdens assessment, which will always apply when there is new responsibility on strategic authorities and mayors. The new burden assessment will be applied to ensure that they're funded appropriately and indeed for the priority areas that we are moving forward with devolution, we are providing capacity funding upfront to make sure they have the capability and the resources to do the job at hand.

So the basic principle will always hold. When we give responsibility, we ensure the resources are there to do this. Well, let me pick up on the point of neighbourhood governance, and members have spoken eloquently about the need to ensure that we are providing strong neighbourhood governance, and we share that ambition. So members have talked about town and parish councils, others have talked about neighbourhood committees. We are clear that it is down to communities to decide the form and function of neighbourhood governance, but we want to see neighbourhood governance in every part of the country and what we will do is provide regulations that sets out the principle of what this neighbourhood governance looks like.

In addition to that, we will provide non-statutory guidance to support communities as they embark on that and I will make progress. And the point that was made by the Member for Ribble Valley and also the Member for Brighton Pavilion, that we must have strong community engagement is when we absolutely believe in and we will continue to learn from the ground, and we will continue to draw on insights as to how we strengthen community engagement as we move forward. Let me pick up on the points that was raised by the Member for Worthing West and the Member for Stroud around assets of community, value and the environment.

And let me just thank them for speaking so knowledgeably and eloquently about the value the environmental assets can provide, and to reassure them that environmental assets will absolutely be captured within assets of community value, whether that's green spaces, parks, woodlands, community parks, these will all be captured within these assets. So we will set this out in guidance, but we absolutely share the determination that environmental assets are captured within this. More broadly, we hear the arguments that have been made about our members that this is an absolute right and there is a huge opportunity there.

And we will continue to learn from insects on the ground about how the community right to buy is working, the ability of communities to exercise this power, and will look to strengthen this as we move forward. Let me finally address the two points that was raised about local media. We are completely agree with the opposition that we need transparency and public engagement when it comes to local governance changes. We are also absolutely committed to the cornerstone that local press plays to our democracy. The bill makes a small and proportionate change to the publication of local authority governance changes, and how this is communicated to give local authorities flexibility so they can use a range of different mechanisms.

It does not apply to wider publications for things like planning. It is a very specified change which is about greater flexibility. And then finally, because I'm hugely conscious of time, let me move to the point that was made over and over again by members across the House and was made by my hon. Friend the Member for Heywood and Middleton, North Hayes and Harlington, the member of Crawley and the Member for North West Cambridgeshire and the Member for Brentford and Isleworth. And their contribution to this debate, and the advocacy of this important issue of how we regulate our taxi and private hire system.

I'm glad to see that members welcome the steps we are taking to put in place minimum standards. This is an important first step. We will build on this. We will be consulting on licensing, becoming the responsibility of local transport authorities in order to improve regulation. And we are committed to engaging with our unions, including unite to local authorities, to operators, to discuss how we can build on this. And we absolutely hear the point on urgency and that we need to act.

And with that, I urge the House to support the amendments to this bill that the government has proposed so that we can drive forward the biggest transfer of power in a generation. This is an exciting this is an exciting moment for this side of the House. We believe that we need to drive change, but in order to drive change, we have got to equip every level from our regions to our local authorities to our communities to drive the change that they want to see in their place.

So we believe that this bill is an important first step. We will continue to engage with members across the House to ensure that we are doing our part to make sure that the regulations, the provisions in this bill are matched by tangible change on the ground. And I know members across the House support our endeavour, absolutely support our endeavour, that we must drive the change that we want to

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see in our places. And I commend our and we will keep going. And we will continue.

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And we will continue. To engage constructively to make

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To engage constructively to make sure, to make, to make sure that we are doing our part. But I we have engaged in this bill in a engaged in this bill in a constructive way. I hope members across the House can see this. I will give way.

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will give way. I very much thank the Minister for giving way and I really commend

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her on her fantastic closing remarks. I would. Just. Like to. Emphasise the points made by my

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Emphasise the points made by my hon. Friend about. Thank you to my hon. Friend.

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Thank you to my hon. Friend. For order. Order under the order of the House on the 24th of of the House on the 24th of November, I must now put the questions necessary to bring considering proceedings under consideration to a conclusion. The consideration to a conclusion. The question is that new clause 45 be read a second time, as many that read a second time, as many that say I of the contrary, no the ayes have it, the ayes have it. The question is that new clause 45 be question is that new clause 45 be added to the bill, as many as I say I of the contrary.

No. The ayes I of the contrary. No. The ayes have it. The ayes have it. We now come to government. New clauses 46 and 49 to 57. I call the Minister to move new clauses 46 and 49 to 57 formerly. The question is that clauses 46 and 49 to 57 be added to the Bill, as may the opinion, say aye. The contrary. No. The ayes have it. The ayes have it. New clause 17 has been selected for separate decision.

I call the

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Liberal Democrat spokesperson to move new. Clause 17 formerly. Move formally. The question is that new clause

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The question is that new clause 17 be added to the bill. As many say I. I of the contrary, no no. Colleagues Colleagues observing proceedings will know that I'm on proceedings will know that I'm on my feet and they should be seated. The question is, as on the Order The question is, as on the Order Paper, may that be MCA Of the contrary, no Tellers for the ayes r Claire Young and Bobby Dean tellers Claire Young and Bobby Dean tellers for the nos Stephen Morgan and
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Of Of order.

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Of order.

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The ayes to the right. 87. The

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noes to the left. 321. The ayes to the right. 87. The

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The ayes to the right. 87. The nose left 321 two. The noes have it. nose left 321 two. The noes have it. The noes have it. En bloc. New clause. New. Clause 69 has been

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clause. New. Clause 69 has been selected for separate decision. I call the opposition spokesperson David Simmonds to move new clause 69 formally. Move formally.

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Move formally. The question is that new clause 69 be added to the bill. As many of that opinion, say aye.

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A A colleague A colleague should A colleague should occasionally look up and see what's happening in look up and see what's happening in the chamber. And yes, once again, I'm on my feet. Mr. Mohammed Iqbal I'm on my feet. Mr. Mohammed Iqbal Mohamed, the question is, as on the order papers of the country. Oh.

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order papers of the country. Oh. Just one say I of the country. No, no. Tellers for the ayes I Jerome Mayhew and Lincoln Jopp. And tell Mayhew and Lincoln Jopp. And tell us for the nose of Stephen Morgan Order, order!

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The ayes to the right. 189 the noes to the left. 320.

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noes to the left. 320. The ayes to the right. 189 the Noes to the left. 322. The noes Noes to the left. 322. The noes have it the nose. Have it unlock. New. Clause 80 has been selected New. Clause 80 has been selected for separate decision. I call the opposition spokesperson David Simmonds to move new clause 80 formally.

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Formally. The question is that new clause 80 be added to the bill, as many that being say I. that being say I.

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Once Once again. Once again. Chair Once again. Chair is Once again. Chair is standing Once again. Chair is standing.

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Once again. Chair is standing. Members should be seated. The question is as on the order papers say I. II of the contrary, no. No tellers for the ayes of Jerome Mayhew and Lincoln Jopp tellers for the noes are Stephen Morgan and Order.

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The ayes to the right. 187 the noes to the left. 320.

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noes to the left. 320. The eyes the right. 187 the Noes to the left. 320 so The noes have to the left. 320 so The noes have to the left. 320 so The noes have it the nose, have it unlock. We now it the nose, have it unlock. We now come to Government amendments 119 come to Government amendments 119 to 121, 112, 158, 135, 114, 115, to 121, 112, 158, 135, 114, 115, 136, 113, and 157.

I call the Minister to move the amendments

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formally. Formally. The question is that Government

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The question is that Government amendments 119 to 121, 112, 158, amendments 119 to 121, 112, 158, 135, 140, 115, 136, 113, and 157 be 135, 140, 115, 136, 113, and 157 be made. As I say, I the country no. The ayes have it. The ayes have it. The ayes have it. The ayes have it. I call the Minister to move government. New schedule three. Formally, the question is that the government is schedule three be added to the bill as may that opinion say aye.

I the contrary. No. The ayes have it. The ayes have it. We now come to government amendments 152 to 156. I call the Minister to move amendments 152 to 1 five six. Formally, the question is that government amendments 152

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to 156 be made, as many that say I. II. Of the contrary, no the ayes

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Of the contrary, no the ayes have it. The ayes have it. Consideration completed. Third Reading. Now.

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Now. Kings. Consent. Minister to move.

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Third Reading. Mr. Campbell. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker.

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Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I beg to move that the bill now be read a third time. I am privileged to be to be able to open the Third to be to be able to open the Third Reading debate for the English Devolution and Community Empowerment Bill following Empowerment Bill following constructive debate at Report stage. I would first like to reiterate my thanks to hon. Members from across the House for their thoughtful contributions during the passage of the bill. The bill cements the government's commitment to powering up our regions, rebuilding local government and empowering our communities.

This is fundamental to achieving the change our our constituents expect and deserve. constituents expect and deserve. Better living standards improve public services and politics being public services and politics being done with communities. Not to them. This government's ambition is to bring power and decision making bring power and decision making closer to people who know their areas best. The bill will truly
18:39
Miatta Fahnbulleh Portrait Miatta Fahnbulleh MP, Parliamentary Under-Secretary (Housing, Communities and Local Government) (Peckham, Labour )
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empower residents to shape the places they live and work, and from fixing our broken local audit fixing our broken local audit system to empowering mayors to unlock the economic potential of their places, this bill will set their places, this bill will set local government on a firmer footing and enable local leaders to deliver a decade of national deliver a decade of national renewal. These changes are long overdue and we are now taking ambitious action where previous governments have failed. I want to extend my thanks to everyone who extend my thanks to everyone who has played a role in getting the bill to this stage.

I'm particularly thankful to my right hon. Friend, the Secretary of State for Local Government, for his dedication and commitment to this dedication and commitment to this agenda. I'm also thankful to my hon. Friend the Member for Oldham West and Royton, for his leadership and the huge amount of work that he put into developing this impressive into developing this impressive piece of legislation. I am also grateful to members from across the House who scrutinised the bill in detail during committee, and I thank the shadow Minister for his constructive and, for the most part, collaborative approach.

I want also to put on record my thanks to the wider local government sector, especially those that gave evidence earlier this year. They are critical actors in providing the front line services residents need and deserve, whether they are councillors, mayors, police and crime commissioners or third sector representatives. This House thanks them for their service. I hope that colleagues and the Other place continue to take the same collaborative approach that has been used in this House, and I wish Baroness Taylor the best with

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moving the bill forward. I commend the bill to this House. The question is the bill be now

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The question is the bill be now read a third time. I call the shadow Minister Davidson. To thank you, Madam Deputy

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To thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. Briefly, there is a high degree of consensus around some of the objectives that the government the objectives that the government have set out. We share the ambition around delivering more homes. We share the ambition around economic share the ambition around economic growth and devolution. But the alternative stimulants on these points, which the government have points, which the government have chosen essentially are around more bureaucracy, more centralisation, new taxes, all of which will stand new taxes, all of which will stand in the way of the delivery of this ambition.

So as an opposition, we ambition. So as an opposition, we are very, very clear. The things that our communities, that our constituents, that our local businesses want and need are not contained within this bill. It contained within this bill. It cancels elections. It reduces local democracy. It centralises power democracy. It centralises power with a swathe of new ministerial diktats. It raises taxes through an diktats. It raises taxes through an unwanted unbriefed new tourism tax unwanted unbriefed new tourism tax and opens the door to new unlimited mayoral levies that can be used at ministerial fiat, not on the say so of local residents.

Madam Deputy Speaker, it is a letdown to those who hoped to support it and a betrayal of the ambition of those who support our local democracy, and we will oppose it tonight.

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Yeah, yeah yeah, yeah. The question is that the bill be

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The question is that the bill be now read the third time as may that opinion, say aye. of the contrary, no.

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No.

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No. Seated. Miss Gilmore. Colleagues no benches should be seated. The question is as on the Order Paper.

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question is as on the Order Paper. May I say I. II of the contrary, no. No.

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No. Tellers for the ayes of Stephen Morgan and Taiwo Owatemi. Tellers for the noes. Jerome Mayhew and

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Yeah.
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None Portrait Division
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Thank Thank you Thank you very Thank you very much Thank you very much. Wera Hobhouse. Wera Hobhouse. Chief Wera Hobhouse. Chief Whip.

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No. Order, Order, order! Order, order!

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The ayes to the right. 322. The noes to the left. 179.

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noes to the left. 179. The ayes to the right. 322. The noes to the left 179. So the ayes have it. The ayes have it unlocked. Finish that bit of business. I'll give the Minister a few moments to shuffle over. Point of order. Doctor Ellie Chowns. Thank you.

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Doctor Ellie Chowns. Thank you. Madam Deputy Speaker. And the Prime Minister said something that was inaccurate during his statement on the G20 summit and Ukraine when he wrongly said The Green Party he wrongly said The Green Party says we should pull out of NATO. That is not correct. Our party policy explicitly says that we recognise that NATO, while imperfect and in need of reform, imperfect and in need of reform, has an important role in ensuring the ability of member States to respond to threats to their security.

We support the principle of international solidarity, whereby nations support one another through mutual defence alliances and multilateral security frameworks. Madam Deputy Speaker,

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frameworks. Madam Deputy Speaker, what advice can you provide about the Prime Minister correcting the record? I am.

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Grateful to the hon. Member for giving notice of her point of order, but it's not a point of order for the chair, but she's most definitely put her point on the

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definitely put her point on the record. I now move on to pensions. Motion number three on pensions Minister to move. I beg to move.
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None Portrait Points of Order
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I beg to move. The question is, as on the order papers, may that opinion say aye. I of the contrary, no the ayes have it. The ayes have it. I now go on to the presentation of public

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to the presentation of public petitions and I go to Bradley Thomas petition. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. The government's housing targets are forcing a city template onto rural communities against the will of locals and with minimal consideration for infrastructure or environmental impact. That is why environmental impact. That is why my Save Our Greenbelt petition has so far received 5936 signatures. so far received 5936 signatures. Bromsgrove and The villages a 79% rural constituency composed of 89% rural constituency composed of 89% greenbelt land, has been burdened by an 85% housing target increase, whilst our neighbouring city whilst our neighbouring city Birmingham has had their target slashed by over 30%.

The petitioners, therefore, request petitioners, therefore, request that the House of Commons urge the government to justify the flawed formula used to calculate the local housing need for Bromsgrove district, reverse the planned reduction in Birmingham's housing target to ensure the burden is shared in a fair and proportionate way, and only allow allow new houses to be built when they provided.

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Thank you. Petition Bromsgrove district housing targets.

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Thank you. Petition. Tonia Antoniazzi. I

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Petition. Tonia Antoniazzi. I rise to present a petition on. Behalf of my constituents regarding pornography on International. Day

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pornography on International. Day for the Elimination of Violence. Against women on day one. Of the United Nations 16. Days of. Activism.

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Activism. The reach and. Influence of online. Pornography is bigger than ever. We know. That sexual.

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That sexual. Coercion is inherent to its. Production, and violence against women is mainstream. Within its content.

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Within its content. Its use is fuelling. Misogyny and sexual violence, conditioning. Generations of abuse. That abuse is Generations of abuse. That abuse is a normal part of sexual encounters. The petitioners, therefore, request that the House of Commons urge the government to extend safeguards apply to pornography offline, to apply to pornography offline, to pornography distributed online, and to verify the age and permission of every individual featured on their every individual featured on their platform, and give performers the right to withdraw their consent at any time, and the petitioners

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remain acceptable. Petition. Pornography and

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Petition. Pornography and violence against women.

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violence against women. Petition Rachael Maskell. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker, I rise to present a petition on the I rise to present a petition on the two child benefit cap tomorrow. We are all trusting to be a turning point for children living in point for children living in poverty. As the third child and subsequent children in a family have been denied vital support have been denied vital support since 2017, unless proved to be conceived by rape, to lift 540,000 children out of poverty.

With the removal of the two child limit and
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None Portrait Petitions
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removal of the two child limit and a further 80,000 with the removal of the benefit cap is something 578 of my constituents have called for of my constituents have called for through a paper and digital petition against the hardship which they endure. The petitioners, therefore, request that the House of Commons urges the government to consider the impact of the two child benefit cap in developing a strategy to end child poverty, and strategy to end child poverty, and

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the petitioners remain, etc. Thank you. Petition two child

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benefit cap. I beg to. Move that this House do now adjourn.

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adjourn. The question is that this House do now adjourn, and I call Mims Davies the future of the surgical

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Davies the future of the surgical unit at Uckfield Community Hospital. My neighbour Mims Davies. Yes. Thank you, Madam.

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Thank you, Madam. Deputy Speaker. And I must. Start by. Thanking through you, Mr. Speaker, for granting me this Speaker, for granting me this adjournment debate. And I know it is unusual to allocate adjournment debates to members of the Shadow Cabinet. So I'm very grateful, and I'm delighted to be raising this important matter on behalf of my constituents. And I most appreciate it. And I know, Madam Deputy Speaker, as my neighbour, I hope that she will appreciate it too.

that she will appreciate it too. Now, since July 2024, Uckfield Hospital has been entrusted to me as part of my changed constituency. as part of my changed constituency. It's one of two small, vital community hospitals in my area, one community hospitals in my area, one being the award winning Queen Victoria Hospital in East Grinstead, which I might add is going from strength to strength. We look forward to the completion of the forward to the completion of the Community Diagnostic Centre in 2026.

A buzzing specialist community facility with great ratings and a
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Mims Davies Portrait Mims Davies MP (East Grinstead and Uckfield, Conservative)
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1980s, Mr. Arthur Hughes, a generous local farmer, gave the land and £1 million. The League of Friends then raised a further £1 million, which was matched by the million, which was matched by the NHS for the people of Uckfield and the surrounding villages to see this facility delivered. The this facility delivered. The hospital was officially opened in 1993 by Her Royal Highness Princess 1993 by Her Royal Highness Princess Margaret. The bequest has a vital inclusion. Madam Deputy Speaker of an operating theatre.

This can be an operating theatre. This can be found in the associated covenants, and it was especially for the small surgical aspects of local day care. I have visited on several occasions. I have visited on several occasions. This fairly new fresh feeling. Beautifully set, well maintained Beautifully set, well maintained community hospital and always been w Local NHS staff taking their roles to support and administer to the local community. The League of local community. The League of Friends have long played an active and frankly huge financial part and and frankly huge financial part and have been practical supporters of Uckfield Hospital and the Resident Uckfield Hospital and the Resident Trusts over the past years.

Two examples recently, including x ray equipment to the tune of £186,000, funded ultrasound machines at £60,000, not only supporting the hospital, but also offered extra funding to local GP surgeries. As it's their philosophy, it benefits all local people. The friends have delivered plans to help upgrade the busy minor minor injuries Unit department on the site, and with the surgical unit now mothballed or in reality, it feels like closing. The uncertainty is just too much for the friends, and it is reflected in the emails I've received in the last few weeks and months and even today ahead of this debate, local people are worried about the site, and tonight I hope their fears will be allayed.

The wonderful Linda Kenwood, the secretary of the League of Friends, has said poignantly to be treated in this way is very upsetting. I will.

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Jim Shannon Madam Deputy Speaker, can I commend for East Grinstead and Uckfield to bring this forward? and Uckfield to bring this forward? I spoke to her beforehand and I share her concerns. We have similar concerns in my own constituency concerns in my own constituency with the minor injuries unit closed. What it meant was that crucial for local constituents, it meant that local constituents, it meant that they had to travel further almost an hour to get to the the nearest urgent care centre.

Does the hon. Lady agree that any future decisions on any unit across this nation should be grounded in the nation should be grounded in the needs of patients, the benefits of local access, and the essential role that community hospitals play

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in delivering a resilient NHS. Thank you so much. I thank the hon. Gentleman. It's a pleasure to be intervened in a adjournment debate by the hon. Gentleman. I completely agree. And that's exactly what to tonight's that's exactly what to tonight's debate is about. And I thank him for adding to to to this. So without a dedicated Uckfield Hospital manager to pull it all together, the site has become together, the site has become fragmented. That's the continual feedback I have.

None of the individual trusts seem to Madam individual trusts seem to Madam Deputy Speaker interact for the wider good for the hospital site and its patients is what has been and its patients is what has been repeatedly said to me. I've previously written to the Secretary of State for health on this matter, as my concerns are also, if any fire or any substantial incident was found at this site. Ultimately, who is responsible for the site as a whole and ensuring health and safety for all? Let me take let me take you back.

Madam Deputy Speaker, I visited on the 4th of October, 2024 to meet Danielle Gearing, staff nurse, to see for myself how the services were offered at the hospital and find out what was actually happening on behalf of my constituents. Now, along with the minor injuries, there was a full and varied outpatient clinic including oncology, rheumatology, chemical pathology, dermatology, vascular, oral and maxillofacial, and neurology, to name a few. Activities. Most of the clinics do include the consultant, registrar and quite often a clinical nurse specialist, yet the list doesn't include other services and providers of facilities on the site, such as the health visiting team, diabetes nurses, diabetic eye screening, heart failure nurse dieticians, cardiac rehab, Parkinson's nurse, nurse Macmillan.

Are there bowel screening? Is there hospice outreach, triple A clinic and the list in Uckfield Community Hospital goes on. And Danielle confirmed it too. A very busy outpatient department, which we will hope will continue. Not forgetting at that point they also had a GP surgery, a pharmacy and mental health facility on the site. The ambulance service runs a site close to this facility too. Madam Deputy Speaker, you will know and more on the pharmacy situation shortly. However, out of the blue, the League of Friends received the following in a letter in August 2024 from Doctor James Evans, consultant in Critical Care and Anaesthetics, Medical Examiner, East Sussex Healthcare NHS trust, which read.

I'm writing to yourselves as a consultant within East Sussex Healthcare Trust and Deputy Divisional director of Das and as a clinical lead for day surgery. I'm hoping you'll be able to help and would be grateful if you could take some time to consider this email. One of my roles is clinical Lead, responsible for the newly built Sussex Surgical Centre, which is looking to be functional in March 2025. It will be a surgical hub aiming to improve day case surgery, provision for the whole of the region and hopefully benefiting patients and staff in East Sussex.

Part of my role is related to equipment for the SSC, ensuring both ensuring we have the right stuff in place and sourcing any essential items within a tight budget. Whilst engaged in this task, I've been made aware of some equipment within the Uckfield hospital that was kindly purchased by yourselves over the years. Some of this equipment is expensive and specialist and extremely useful for the surgeons and the whole surgery team. I know that equipment purchased by the friends is intended for use solely within their hospital, but I was hoping you may be able to consider making an exception at this time.

All of the equipment you have purchased, including a microscope, ultrasound machine, and ECG machine, are incredibly expensive but vital for the successful running of a DSU, and we are struggling with the constraints of our budget to purchase all of the equipment. As you know, the trust is in a dire financial position and any help would be greatly appreciated. The items in the Uckfield hospital would go a long way to facilitating the above, and would be used on a daily basis in SSC.

I'm aware that I'm asking a great deal from yourselves at this time, but I wonder if you may be open to a further discussion on the subject. Madam Deputy Speaker, so literally taking the family jewels in plain sight. Chris McVey, chairman of the Uckfield Hospital League of Friends, remarked our concerns about the possible removal of services from our day surgery unit. As yet we have still no official confirmation or communication from the East Sussex Healthcare NHS trust. There are still various unhelpful rumours and deep concerns around what was received in this letter from James Evans, but frankly, no clarity for both the staff and the friends and, of course, my constituents and Madam Deputy Speaker your constituents.

For clarity, the friends have said, and this is what the friends know. We've not been told that this unit is fully closing, but you can understand our disbelief at the insensitivity and the lack of respect receiving this news in this way. We have a perfectly good operating theatre at Uckfield, fully equipped and staffed, just sitting there doing virtually nothing. After a number of rumours increased increased on October the 7th, 2024. The hospital staff in the Surgical Day unit were told unofficially, the ICB have agreed to a six month closure to expect a meeting at the end of October.

Early November in 2024. So you can imagine this was a real shock and morale took a massive tumble. The pilot, which was the mothballing, began on the 2nd of December, 2024, just before Christmas last year, and I brought this to the house and my worries and concerns for my constituents at the time. As Jo Chadwick Bell, Chief Executive Officer, East Sussex Healthcare NHS trust, at the time of the announcement, wrote Uckfield DSU cannot safely support general anaesthetic or overnight care and does not carry out surgical procedures on patients with a higher risk of complications, such as those with complex needs, certain disabilities, significant frailty and or certain concurrent illnesses.

In those cases, even daycase procedures must be carried out in an acute hospital environment where the full scope of supporting clinical services on site Uckfield theatre sessions are not currently well used. The reason is partly due to safety criteria mentioned above, but also partly because some of the procedures that we previously carried out at Uckfield are no longer commissioned by the NHS. It is also because advances in care mean that those procedures no longer need day theatres, so are delivered in normal treatment rooms over the course of the pilot.

We will evaluate the impact of the changes and consider options for the future day surgery. Uckfield. It is in all our interests to make the best possible use of what is a valued asset to the NHS in Sussex. Madam Deputy Speaker. This is so unfair. This pilot, the surgical unit in Uckfield frankly condemned to stand not a chance when it comes to the staff, with no staff, no anaesthetist and no treatment figures, which could work, meant that this was a manoeuvre by the East Sussex Healthcare Trust in the staff's view, and another blow to the staff came at the unit at the start of 2025.

Kamsons pharmacy closed and left, I understand, with some clouds over the terms of their departure and frankly why. So one year on, my residents are not taking this lying down. They've got together a local petition, which at present stands at 6366 signatures. But it is the uncertainty that is causing local residents a great deal of stress and panic. I will be building on this petition after this debate. People need local services, family and friends nearby to help with the operations, getting to the hospital, getting out of hospital and the care and the community that they need.

And I know this government is committed to, but they need answers. I have had meetings after much pleading with three recent chief executive officers of the Integrated Care Board, Adam Doyle, who personally promised me and my casework team updates in early August, Mike Smith and the most recent meeting last week with the new appointment. Karen McDowell, the new chief executive on NHS Sussex NHS England reorganisation and staff changes have left me and my casework team in the dark, just like my constituents under this government who I know are committed to local community services just like I am.

So I raise again how important the day Surgery unit is in providing local care, and how Uckfield Hospital is a facility that is so vital it must not slip through our fingers. It staff some who have now retired or left with such upset and anger and frustration are worried, and the CEO has kindly written to me since I met, and I quote the commitment of you to the local people of the Uckfield Community Hospital, and I'm speaking to our commissioning teams who've been working with East Sussex Healthcare NHS trust around their pilot, specifically on day surgery, but also likely more importantly, our terms, our teams working to develop neighbourhood care and the potential for this asset within its work.

And I do thank her and share this very gratefully. So for the Minister, let's just recap a thriving surgical day surgery unit mothballed. Firstly, the manager of the hospital taking away and not replace Anaesthesias have been moved elsewhere and not accessible. Patients now directed to other surgical sites. Staff here out of the blue, with a six month mothballing and a given roles miles away from Uckfield, assets from the friends are stripped from the site and we hear a year later, are still in the dark with no decision taken and no ICB head willing to put their head above the parapet.

We need to know what's next. My well loved hospital is a vital community service. Our town and area is growing at a rapid rate, with significant housing being built and due to be built, difficulty in getting around a rural area and impacts of the public having to get to Eastbourne. Lots of move from the coast and from London, taking the opportunity to work locally and expecting NHS services on the doorstep, which is why I'm grateful to be in the chamber this evening.

To ask the Minister to look at this vital matter for me on behalf of my constituents, so she can do all she can. We need this facility to thrive. The community hospital and its wide ranges ranging services to be backed to the hilt. We crucially want the Uckfield day surgery back

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doing what it does. Madam Deputy Speaker operating. Yeah, yeah.

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the Member for East Grinstead and Uckfield is a strong campaign on behalf of that community hospital, a service that my constituents in Sussex Weald would constituents in Sussex Weald would have used and would want to use as well. So I also look forward to hearing the minister's response. hearing the minister's response. Minister Karen Smith duly noted. a. honourable.

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honourable. Lady, and I. Want to begin by recognising. The very genuine concern that she has articulated.

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she has articulated. So well by the residents of East Grinstead and Uckfield about the future of that local. Surgery unit.

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important. To all our constituents, and it's absolutely right that we, as members of Parliament, advocate on members of Parliament, advocate on their behalf. And she has really ensured that her constituents voices are heard both in Parliament and through her engagement with the and through her engagement with the NHS, Sussex Board and the ICB. And indeed through those changes which we understand are difficult to keep we understand are difficult to keep pursuing. But as we've all told in this House, persistence is what we are all used to doing.

Reducing are all used to doing. Reducing waiting list is a central part of this government's health mission. I do want to reassure the hon. Lady do want to reassure the hon. Lady and other colleagues that we are committed to putting patients first about that, ensuring timely treatment and bringing care closer treatment and bringing care closer to where people live. That's why in December 2020, we published our plan for change, setting out our commitment to return by March 29th to the NHS constitutional standard that 92% of patients wait no longer than 18 weeks from referral to consultant led treatment.

And we are seeing those improvements. More than 5 million additional
19:17
Karin Smyth Portrait Karin Smyth MP, Minister of State (Department of Health and Social Care) (Bristol South, Labour)
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appointments are more than double our commitment that our election pledge. Work with NHS waiting list pledge. Work with NHS waiting list by over 230,000 since we came into office, delivering 135,000 more office, delivering 135,000 more cancer diagnoses in August, we confirmed 100 CDCs across the county and country are now offering county and country are now offering out-of-hours services 12 hours a day, seven days a week, meaning that patients can access vital tests and scans and checks around their busy lives. There are also new surgical hubs to help tackle the backlog, and currently the waiting list stands at 7.3 million patient pathways, with 6.2 million patient pathways, with 6.2 million people waiting.

And that's what we need to change with our electoral reform plan and our ten year health reform plan and our ten year health plan, which is built on that, to have a key focus on improving access to health care for everyone, prioritise patient experience and ensuring that wherever you live in England, you will be seen, diagnosed and treated in a timely diagnosed and treated in a timely way, no matter where what you earn. And to help achieve that, we're investing £6 billion additional investing £6 billion additional capital investment over the next five years on diagnostic, elective, urgent and emergency capacity in urgent and emergency capacity in the NHS.

And can I join the hon. Lady in thanking her local NHS staff for their work in making sure these improvements absolutely do get felt by local people? On the specific concerns that the hon. Lady raised regarding the trials closure of the Day Surgery unit, which is run, as she said, by the East Sussex Healthcare NHS trust. I do understand how unsettling this decision feels for many people in the public. And indeed, as she articulated the staff and in preparation for this debate, I have met with the local NHS leaders and I'm grateful to them for their time and their briefing on some of these issues, because I do think it's important to hear from people on the ground in this, in these matters, our ten year plan commitment to move care into the community is a priority for the government, as the hon.

Lady has said. But it does need to be coupled with pragmatism and what's best for patients. And in this case, according to the latest data held by the trust, almost 90% of patients access in relevant services at Uckfield live closer to the two main hospitals in Hastings and Eastbourne, and the proposal was therefore to relocate the day surgery unit activity to the two hospital sites. For most patients. According to the trust, this would mean treatments are closer to home than the existing offer. Secondly, the change is expected to increase the overall number of day surgery procedures available to more people, including the residents of Uckfield, so they can receive surgery more quickly.

And local leaders have taken this decision. So it's critical to to increase productivity in the NHS by using both hospitals. Both local and general anaesthetic procedures can be offered in the place with greater provision for higher risk patients or those who do need overnight stays. So the findings from the trial to date are that I'll come on to decisions to reorganise. Local provision is often a disappointment and very difficult for many people, and it is important there is a strong case for this move to be better for patients, for productivity and value for taxpayers money.

Following a six month trial, the trust has found that the patients did not report any decline in their experience following the move, nor were there concerns raised about travel or access. The Patient Advice and Liaison Service, I'm told, have reviewed complaints from the pilot period and have had no negative feedback related to the pilot. The evaluation showed that the trust was able to increase capacity for elective procedures, improve the timeliness of pre-assessment, and provide greater flexibility to prioritise urgent cancer and general anaesthetic cases.

And the initial analysis indicated that 88.3% of patients sampled patients were treated closer to their homes, with an average reduction in travel distance of 10.3 miles per journey. Now, the responsibility for delivery, implementation and funding decisions for services ultimately rests with the appropriate NHS commissioner, rather than the government working closely with providers and local stakeholders. Absolutely, including local members of Parliament and the ICB has a duty to consult with the relevant local authority. Health Overview and Scrutiny Committee about substantial changes to health services.

And I've been informed that the trust is looking to share a paper with them in December. All substantial planned service change should be subject to a full public consultation and meet the government and NHS England's Test to ensure good decision making. And she makes her points extremely well, if I may say so, about on behalf of the League of Friends and the great work that they do across the country and in, in her, in her area, she makes those points well.

And as well as bringing this issue on the putting this issue on the record as she's done this evening, I will ensure that the local NHS does address the issues that she has raised here this evening. It's important to note that the changes only affect the day surgery unit. Other services at Uckfield Community Hospital. I'm assured by the local NHS. As she outlined in her speech, are central to our plans for local bringing care more locally and neighbourhood services and they will continue the opening of the new Sussex Surgical Centre, which she talked about, backed by £40 million of investment.

It means that the trust will be able to provide better care for more patients closer to where most of them live. And in closing, Madam Deputy Speaker, can I add my thanks to the great work of the League of Friends? And can I thank my hon. Friend for raising this important issue and for her ongoing support for the Uckfield community. I know she'll continue to work with the local NHS on behalf of constituents, and we're very happy to continue that discussion with her.

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The question is that this House do now adjourn and move, that people say I the ayes have it. The
This debate has concluded
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