Commons Chamber

Thursday 17th July 2025

(began 7 hours, 31 minutes ago)

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None Portrait Q1. What steps he is taking to support small and medium cycle manufacturers. (905234)
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Robert a very happy next new adventure, but also, may I wish her mad the Queen happy birthday.
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None Portrait Q5. What assessment he has made of the potential impact of the Industrial Strategy on Teesside. (905239)
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Western five.
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Gareth Thomas Portrait Gareth Thomas MP, Parliamentary Under Secretary of State (Department for Business and Trade) (Harrow West, Labour )
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**** Possible New Speaker ****

The Chancellor announced last year that from next financial year, year that from next financial year, we do intend to introduce permanently lower tax rates for retail hospitality and leisure properties. A permanent tax cut will ensure that those businesses will benefit from much-needed certainty and support. Treasury colleagues have been engaging businesses on their proposals for a fairer business rates system. The government is planning to publish an interim report on the work that they have done. More detail will be set national insurance increases just to stay open what the Minister do to ensure small businesses are ensure small businesses are encouraged to grow rather than being punished being entrepreneurial so that local businesses can keep serving us? serving us? There are a range of measures that we have already taken to support businesses of the sort in his constituency.

My right honourable friend, the Secretary of State, announced plans for prisoners growth service to make it much easier for businesses to get the advice they need from government in terms of how they can start up and scale up. The Chancellor set out in the spending review a two third increase in the capacity of the British Business Bank which will make it a lot easier to access the finance that businesses need to start up and scale up. Many hospitality businesses continue to point out the significant crime and antisocial behaviour in town centres.

And the extra police officers that we have recruited and our commitment to recruit still more will help those businesses that want to see government bearing down on shoplifting and other antisocial
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None Portrait Q10. What assessment he has made of the potential impact of the Industrial Strategy on Cornwall. (905244)
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Question 10.
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None Portrait Q14. What recent assessment his Department has made of trends in the level of operating costs for SMEs. (905248)
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Question 14.
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None Portrait Topical questions: Business and Trade
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Topical number one.
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Rushanara Ali Portrait Rushanara Ali MP, Parliamentary Under-Secretary (Housing, Communities and Local Government) (Bethnal Green and Stepney, Labour)
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increased dissipation in elections, tackle the inconsistencies in voter ID rules and protect our democracy by overhauling our political finance rules. We also recognise that there is a growing and worrying trend of candidates, administrators and electors who face harassment and intimidation which is having a chilling democracy. I want to tackle this opportunity to make sure that speakers in the conference for the work that is being doing in the report published on harassment and intimidation.

And will be fixing the foundation, taking forward a range of practical measures to ensure elections continue to be delivered successfully. Our democracy is central to who we are as a country. We can take pride in its evolution and how it has and continues to inspire. As a government, we have a responsibility to protect and strengthen it. The plans we have announced today will future proof our democracy at elections and protect them against interference. We will deliver them during the lifetime of this Parliament through a programme of reforms, including Elections Bill to be introduced in due course.

Through this strategy, we will usher in a new chapter in our democracy, reflecting our principles and restoring faith in our politics and I look forward to

**** Possible New Speaker ****

working with colleagues across the house on this very important agenda. Yesterday, the Department gave
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Paul Holmes Portrait Paul Holmes MP (Hamble Valley, Conservative)
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**** Possible New Speaker ****

Yesterday, the Department gave notice of a written ministerial statement on the government strategy for elections which is a significant for elections which is a significant policy document on changes to election and pentacle finance law, something that affects us all in this house. But instead of the democracy minister using the stem aquatic chamber to announce the new strategy on democracy, the government chose to announce that the press in the Monday number 10 lobby briefing, typical of government by press release.

It is just been announced on BBC News there will be no opportunity for Parliaments scrutiny until September due to the pending recess, so I asked the Minister why did she not choose to come to this house to announce this policy, despite word that they would do so by written statement and why did she not think it was right to come here of her own accord, and why has there been no consultation of political parties to date? This is contrary to the approach of the last government consulted on changes.

This strategy has revealed their ambition for allowing 16-17 to vote in election but not standing it, probably because young people are being abandoned by the Labour Party, so why does the government think a 16 year old can vote but not by a lottery ticket, drink, marry or go to walk, or even stand in the elections? Isn't the position and the age of majority just hopelessly confused and does the Minister agree that foreign donations are already illegal and should remain so but will steps be taken to tighten the law to prevent donations from those who are not in the electoral roll including funnelling money from sources? We welcome the U-turn are not scrapping ID but will allowing banks cards not undermine the security of the ballot box and what security measures will she bring in now automatic registration has been What steps will she bring in to tackle the important issue of intimidation in public life? The government still abide by the long- standing convention government of the day does not unilaterally impose measures directly affecting critical parties, as brittle parties, without proper engagement and discussion? And if future, not announce constitutional policy by press release?
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Rushanara Ali Portrait Rushanara Ali MP, Parliamentary Under-Secretary (Housing, Communities and Local Government) (Bethnal Green and Stepney, Labour)
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Thank you Madam Deputy Speaker. This government was elected on a manifesto committed to granting 16- year-olds the right to vote. In protecting our democracy from foreign money. Can I remind the honourable gentleman that his party lost the general election, in the worst general election defeat for decades. It is no wonder that the party opposite are scared of the electorate. The truth is young people deserve to have a stake, and you have a say in the future of our democracy.

Young people can vote for any party they like. And it speaks volumes that the honourable gentleman would prefer for them to be silent. Can I also remind the house that it was his party that sat in government for 14 years and did nothing to close the gaping loopholes allowing foreign interference and foreign money to enter our system. This is despite independent experts calling for change. Intelligence and Security Committee Ruston Report exposed malign efforts to channel foreign money into UK politics.

Both the Committee on Standards in Public Life and the Electoral Commission have called for strengthened regulations and greater transparency in political donations alongside modernised enforcement. We make no apologies for finally taking the tough choices, and to protect Britain's democracy from malign foreign interference. The real question for the honourable gentleman 's will his party finally end their addiction to donations from shell companies? Under these new laws, they won't have a choice. And we won't stop there. They were finally have to update their due diligence checks and conduct enhanced checks.

We will give the Electoral Commission the power to administer a hefty fine of up to £500,000 maximum fine to deter bad behaviour. Instead of pointing the finger, the onward gentleman to be welcoming these changes and taking the opportunity to finally clean up his party. We have published the election strategy. We have laid a written statement. I have responded in the constitutional affairs committee, the Speaker's Committee, and I will continue to engage with parliamentary colleagues in the coming days, over the summer recess, and in the autumn.

There are a series of changes that we want to make and I'm determined to make sure we get as much cross-party agreement as possible. I look forward to working with him because I believe, on a range of issues, there is common ground. He knows all too well the harassment and intimidation many of us have faced, and threats to our lives. It is really important that we work on these agendas together. And on moving towards automated voter ID as he mentioned. We will take careful consideration on how we implement those changes, ensuring they are done safely.

And I look forward to working with colleagues on doing that. We have retained the voter ID changes that were made under the previous government but we recognise that legitimate voters, particularly those of certain groups, including disabled voters, were excluded. We need to address that gap. And I know his party recognised that challenge. So we are ensuring that, as we go forward, we do not exclude legitimate voters was top I look forward to working with him on common issues of interest and agreement.



**** Possible New Speaker ****

Select committee chair. Thank you Madam Deputy Speaker. I
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Florence Eshalomi Portrait Florence Eshalomi MP (Vauxhall and Camberwell Green, Labour )
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thank the Minister for laying the statement, and for the work that has gone behind-the-scenes on this. On this written statement, and the work that has gone behind-the-scenes. In essence we should welcome the fact that we are now going to see an opportunity for more young people to be enfranchised. We should be very clear that one person losing the right to vote at the ballot box is one person too many. It is important we look at the issues around voter ID, because we have more opportunity and other forms of voter ID at the ballot box.

It is important we enfranchised our young people to vote. They participate in public life already so they should also be entitled to vote. It is important when we have a system where, when you move home, before you have even unpacked, you can get your council tax bill. Should be easier for you to be registered to vote. The council already have your details so it is good that we are looking at the system and making sure that people are registered to vote. For far too long we have knocked on doors was the people say they are not registered to vote.

I wanted to ask the Minister in terms of the issues around making sure that candidates still feel safe coming forward. This is a big challenge, a threats to democracy was can she please outline what more work she will be doing the Electoral Commission with regards to intimidation and abuse faced by

**** Possible New Speaker ****

candidates? Minister. I thank my honourable Friend for
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None Portrait Select Committee Statement: Select Committee Statement on the Second Special Report of the Joint Committee on Human Rights, Accountability For Daesh Crimes: Government response, HC 1211
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Thank you Madam Deputy Speaker. To ask the Secretary of State for Health and Social Care if you will make a statement on NHS pensions and the impact of administrative delays on frontline patient care?
11:23
Karin Smyth Portrait Karin Smyth MP, Minister of State (Department of Health and Social Care) (Bristol South, Labour)
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Thank you Madam Deputy Speaker. As the house knows the NHS Pension Scheme is administered by the NHS Business Services Authority. The authority is facing challenges, as are all public sector pension schemes, as a result of the coalition government's public sector pension reforms in 2015 which were found in 2018 to have been discrimination re-. Known as the McCloud remedy. The work to remedy this is complex. Much of it is detailed in Ministerial Statement on 31 March the subsequent Urgent Question.

It is complex technical work. As the NHS BSA began to produce an image of statement it was clear the estimates of the time needed to sort it was too low. My initial statement first of July updated the house that the NHS authority did not meet the deadlines. And the actions that I was taking. Let me be clear that this government remains committed to providing effective members with their statement at the earliest opportunity. That is what we are doing full stop the authority revised plan and deadlines.

I met with the chief executive of the authority, and to be clear of my disappoint about the progress in my expectations of the authority to remedy the situation for members. And the need to have a more robust assessment of the delivery plan. I made sure the independent chair of the NHS pension board is ready to set up an independent review of the plans will stop I met with her yesterday. I made it clear I expect a thorough review of the crisis, realistic assessment of delivery and to hear her initial assessment.

She will give her full report after the summer recess. I will set new deadline to clinic those members who were expecting this month. And I will update the House of course. The progress with the assessment and the revised deadlines. Let me be clear, members will not face further financial detriment as a consequence of the service statement delays. Interest on pension arrears will be paid 8%, and my authority has already put in place competition arrangements for direct financial losses that members may have occurred.

People who have served in the NHS deserve the Jews. We will prioritise members based on need. And reassuring the house there will be no direct impact on patient care and I will update the House.
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Luke Evans Portrait Dr Luke Evans MP (Hinckley and Bosworth, Conservative)
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I declare an interest on behalf of myself and the shadow team who all have NHS pensions. In April, you granted an urgent question because the government had no real plan for NHS pension statements. Today we return because the government now admits in writing that the new plan is failing. Deadlines have been missed, then pushed back, and now we have no idea where the deadlines are. Just 1059 statements have been issued out of the required total of three and 81,920.

It is just 0.35%. There is no comment on the remedial pension saving statements, RP SS, the government delayed own deadline of July. Has that been met? Was that discussed? This matters. Hundreds of thousands of frontline doctors are not getting the pension statements was not the BMA's clear, senior doctors are stepping back from extra work for fear of unexpected tax liabilities. In short, taking on extra work risks and extra tax bill. Thousands of pounds. When I raised this in April, the Minister retorted that I could have asked about the impact of cancelling the stripes on services for people.

I will now, as the strikes are back on. It will be the senior doctors who have to pick up the slack. The very ones avoiding extra shifts for fear of the tax. If they will not take on the extra work for fear of a heavy tax burden, we have a huge problem. This should therefore be a priority for the government especially as we plan for winter pressures. What will she do to remedy the situation with RSS? What will she do regarding RPSS? Ministers cannot announce deadlines and then miss them.

We should be kind enough to publish a delivery plan? She said before that the government had faith in NHS PSA. Is that still the case? Would she demand the pension regulator step up their investigation and expedite it, given the referral was made in December last year? In the end, doctors are counting on her, and so are patients.
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Karin Smyth Portrait Karin Smyth MP, Minister of State (Department of Health and Social Care) (Bristol South, Labour)
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especially the 50% cuts to the organisations that oversee local health services could potentially health services could potentially

**** Possible New Speaker ****

I found the honourable lady for those questions, she highlights a number of important issues on the complexity of dealing with this. complexity of dealing with this. There is a large number of high earners in this particular scheme. With regard to tax liabilities, that does make the system complex and will continue to be complex, as well will continue to be complex, as well as in and she alludes to this in her as in and she alludes to this in her points, the movement of doctors in particular, throughout the system, and the complexity of following them and the complexity of following them through their careers, is one of the issues I discussed with the independent reviewer yesterday is indeed about the need to make sure there is both a technical outlook, the solutions of looking at things the solutions of looking at things like missing years, she is right to highlight that changes make a difference as well to following difference as well to following people's careers through, so there are wider lessons which I have already started to discuss with the already started to discuss with the reviewer.

About how we make sure we make the best use of technology, so we can track people through their careers and give confidence to the current workforce that we are addressing this, not just for this
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Lucy Powell Portrait Rt Hon Lucy Powell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Manchester Central, Labour )
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I shall. The business for the week commencing 21 July will include Monday, 21 July, general debate on the 80th anniversary of Victory over Japan Day. Tuesday, 22 July, so David Amess summit adjournment debate, the subject of this debate was determined by the Backbench Business Committee. The House will rise for the summer recess at the conclusion of business on Tuesday, 22 July, and return on Monday, 1 September. The business for the week commencing 1 September will include, Monday, 1 September, general debate on regional transport inequality, followed by general debate on devolution in Scotland.

Subjects for these debates were determined by the Backbench Business Committee. Tuesday, 2 September, second reading of the English and community empowerment bill. Wednesday third September, tends a lot today, debate on the motion in the name of the official opposition, subject to be announced. Thursday, 4 September, consideration of Lords amendments, to the House, of Lords hereditary peers bill. Friday the. September, the house will not be sitting. The provisional business for the week commencing 8 September includes Monday, 8 September, consideration of Lords amendments to the Renters' Rights Bill.

Further to the dates that have already been announced for the conference recess, where the House will rise at the close of business on Tuesday, 16 September, and return on Monday, 13 October, members may also wish to know that, subject to the progress of business, the house will rise for the November recess at the close of business on Wednesday, 5 November 2025, and return on Tuesday, 11 November. Perhaps will rise for the Christmas recess at the close of business on Thursday, 18 December, and return on Monday, 5 January.

The House will write for the February recess, the close of business on Thursday, 12 February, 2026, and return on Monday, 23 February, 2026. The House will rise for the Easter recess at the close of business, on Thursday, 26 March, and return on Monday, 13 April. The House will rise for the early May bank holiday, on Thursday, 30 April, and return on Tuesday, 5 May. The House will rise for the Whitsun recess, the close of business on Thursday, 21 May 2026, and return on Monday, 1 June, and, the house will rise for the summer recess on Thursday on Thursday, 16 July, 2026.
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Jesse Norman Portrait Rt Hon Jesse Norman MP (Hereford and South Herefordshire, Conservative)
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Where do we go from there? Shadow

**** Possible New Speaker ****

Leader of the House. I doubt if the leader has ever given a more popular statement! given a more popular statement! House of Commons. I thank you very much for someone seriously, this is much for someone seriously, this is a welcome development and we will give guidance to colleagues and their families, and I'm sure it is widely welcomed across the House, I widely welcomed across the House, I thank her for that. I understand that Robert, the acting director of catering services, will be leaving on Friday, after 25 years in this on Friday, after 25 years in this House.

One shudders to think of the thousands of members of the Commons thousands of members of the Commons thousands of members of the Commons and their staff whose lives will have been enriched by the joy of eating the food from the catering services under his demand and we services under his demand and we thank you very much for his services. I am sure the whole house will want to join me in thanking him for his work. We are getting close for his work. We are getting close to the end of term, and I want come in the same spirit, to thank all the staff in the comments for their service, and of course, you, Madame service, and of course, you, Madame Deputy Speaker, and the other deputy speakers and the clerks, for the resilience, courage, determination, and, of course, poker faces, that you have kept you all business you have kept you all business questions.

That we have had since the beginning of the year. This may, slightly more of a surprise to the House. I also want to thank the Leader of the House. No one who has not been there understands the amount of work involved in scheduling and managing the business of this House. Let alone the amount of work involved in scheduling and managing the Prime Minister and Cabinet colleagues. The Leader of the House distinguished herself with her very grateful remarks, but my father, some months ago.

I thank for that again. And those who want to thank for the engagement and humour, and I must say, some groan inducing poems, of which we will undoubtedly see considerably more this morning, with which she has dealt with questions from colleagues from all part of this House. I hope I may part of this House. I hope I may register, it is a slight sadness to me that she had not been willing to answer my own questions in the same spirit, I do not ask those questions in personal capacity, but as the spokesman of His Majesty's official opposition, whose function is, after all, hold the government to account, so the refusal to answer genuine sensible questions it actually a discourtesy, not just to the House would have a wider constitutional framework, and ultimately to the supreme source of sovereign authority in this country.

That is the King and Parliament. Any fair- minded person reviewing our exchanges will conclude that my questions are always directed at some public purpose, and I think will undoubtedly improve business questions, and of course improve the leader's own accountability and authority, if you are able to engage with them. In the same spirit, and I want to raise some serious questions about what that permit's position is in regard to Northern Ireland veterans. As a leader will know, hundreds of thousands of men and women went to Northern Ireland, not of their own accord, but under orders and in the chain of command on the Queens business, to combat the most serious terrorist organisation in the world.

At the time. And to protect human lives and Many of those veterans cannot respond to the terrible injustice that is being done to them. Almost one year ago, the government decided to abandon appeals to the Supreme Court that were... In order to uphold the key sections of the legacy act. The veterans debate on Monday, the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland said that these sections were unlawful as a result of the judgement. Yesterday, in the Minister's questions, the Prime Minister said the legacy act had been struck down.

Unfortunately, all of these statements are both untrue and misleading. There can be no doubt what the law is on this topic, doubt what the law is on this topic, a succession of senior judges have made absolutely clear that a declaration of incompatibility does not mean a law is unlawful and has been struck down. As Lord Bingham said, in such cases, the validity of the law remains unaffected. The Secretary of Northern Ireland is not a lawyer that he should understand this basic job.

The Prime Minister has been a barrister for 30 years. It is inconceivable that he did not understand the distinction and he was deliberately or inadvertently misleading the House. The Secretary of state appeared to say he would abandon the appeals on political grounds, it is clear that the government is split. Leaving thousands of veterans, many in their 70s and older, exposed to legal harassment, anxiety and trauma. I want to put two serious questions to the Leader of the House.

As Leader, upholding the practices in the honour of this House, will she ask effective state and the Prime Minister to correct these statements to the House and when will we see the legislation to address the legal That the decision to abandon these has created.
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Lucy Powell Portrait Rt Hon Lucy Powell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Manchester Central, Labour )
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Thank you, first of all, I was pleased to announce the recent dates for the whole of the next academic year, this is one of modernisation that I said I would bring in to give colleagues more certainty one year and advance. I am pleased we have announced those dates today. As the House goes into recess next week, can I join the shadow Leader in thanking you, Deputy Speaker, the other deputies, and all of the House staff for the work that you do for us all year round.

In the spirit of the shadow Leader, can I thank the shadow Leader, behind-the-scenes we worked closely on a number of boards and committees and I always find his contributions to be valuable and considered and I want to thank him for that. I also want to share his comments about Robert Gibbs, the acting director of catering services, who will be leaving the House after 25 years of service, he has kept us all well fed, perhaps at times too well fed, and I wish him all the best.

Can I also take this opportunity to mention that I know that many across the House are deeply concerned by the use of a super injunction which had the effect of keeping important policy and government filaments from this House. As a Leader of the House of Commons, I am uncomfortable and concerned that this situation continues. Along. We have long established committees able to scrutinise secret and sensitive information in such cases and, as the Prime Minister said, the previous government has got serious questions to answer, including White House was kept in the dark.

I look forward to the Defence Committee and other committees looking into these issues. He asked me to answer the questions, I am always happy to do so when he wants to bring them forward to me. He has raised questions about the Northern Ireland legacy act and I think it is important that these issues are discussed sensitively and we work together on them without raising the temperature or using irresponsible rhetoric about them. We all have profound respect and we over a debt to our veterans.

This is a complex situation and we need to resolve it. He might disagree with this but the previous government's legacy act was found to be unlawful and unworkable and is now subject to further court action and that means that currently, nobody is protected by it and nor does it give people to justice that they want because there would be so much legal uncertainty about the status of doing so. That is why our priority is finding a way forward that gives veterans, survivors and communities confidence in this process.

We will take our time to do this and we will, of course, brings those updates regularly to the House as we consider them. If you will forgive me, to date marks today... Year anniversary of the first Labour Kings speech in 15 years. The story of our labour Government is told through the legislation that we have brought in already. We are standing up for ordinary working people against vested interests that hold our country back, giving people powers, rights and opportunities and making the powerful more accountable.

This has already brought in real change and real impact and I thought the House might impact and I thought the House might want to think about those today. We stopped water bosses taking bonuses and polluting waters. We brought South Western Railways back into public ownership. We saved the jobs of stale workers, we band ninja swords and soon off-road vehicles will be seized and crushed under shoplifting taken seriously. We put fans back at the heart of the national game. We are ending no- fault evictions and ensuring renters have right over their landlords.

We have changed right to buy so that councils can build more social homes. We are ensuring buses are run for people and we capped bus fares, increased the living wage, the biggest increase since it was introduced. Soon, we will see an end to exploitative zero hour contracts and it will be against the law to fire and rehire. There is much more, but I will not go on. It has been one year... My first Business Questions, in that time, I have answered over 1,700 questions.

I have had countless invitations to cafe's and pubs, more of those please, to sporting events, less of those thank you. We have heard about the people in all corners of our country who are all here to represent and there is healthy competition about who represent the most beautiful, active, charitable, visited, worst connected, most congested constituency. I am sure colleagues will allow me to abuse my position at the despatch box because obviously Manchester Central is the best constituency.

Talking of which, I could not let this opportunity pass without telling the House at Manchester is buzzing right now, with its bucket hats, its music, and even Parkers in this hot weather. As we all come together to celebrate the oasis reunion. As we say, Manchester vibes in the area. When oasis was left performing, it was under a Labour government. And the shadow Leader invited me to give the House a few more groaning pans. If he will forgive me...

Some might say, this government has a master plan for change. I know it has not been a great year for the party opposite, since their biggest election defeat in history, but perhaps they need to stop crying their heart out. Don't look back in anger. And hope that reform fade away. Speaking of which, last year we have seen reform come on the scene, some of their MPs have had better attendances than others. The honourable member for Clacton, as usual, is probably on a beach half a world away.

There is more, one last one... Let's hope this Labour government live forever.

**** Possible New Speaker ****

That was interesting. To correct
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Marie Goldman Portrait Marie Goldman MP (Chelmsford, Liberal Democrat)
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Thank you, if you will indulge

**** Possible New Speaker ****

Thank you, if you will indulge me, I would like to join the shadow Leader and the Leader in thanking you, the other Deputy Speakers and the clerks of House, the House staff, for all of the amazing work that they do. It is not an exaggeration to say we could not do exaggeration to say we could not do it without all of you. I would like to join the shadow Leader in thanking the Leader of the House for thanking the Leader of the House for the responses that she gives to the responses that she gives to Business Questions which I see every week, it has been a pleasure to get to know her and the shadow Leader.

I would like to thank them for that. Turning to a serious matter, last week, the Secretary of State for week, the Secretary of State for Transport announced the government cancelled the 812 widening scheme. This is disappointing and a blow to my constituents, ethics residents my constituents, ethics residents and the East of England. The letter and the East of England. The letter a 12 is a crucial link for communities across Essex. It is also communities across Essex. It is also dangerously congested.

It would have addressed both of these problems and improve the journeys that 90,000 vehicles that travel on this road every day. Critically, the cancellations impact on housebuilding could be profound. Local plans, including that of Chelmsford City Council, are reliant on this scheme going ahead. This could severely hamper the building of an estimated 55,000 new homes in the area. With Labour pledging to build 1.5 million new homes by the end of this parliament, this is a matter that cuts across party lines, whilst I appreciate the constraints under which the Treasury is operating, it is notable that the major road schemes were both in the East of England and this region is a net contributor to the UK economy and has huge growth attention.

Will the Leader of the House ask the secretaries of state to meet with me across party group of MPs so we can discuss how we might find ways to move forward with this vital project that will help the government to deliver on its promises? deliver on its promises?
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Lucy Powell Portrait Rt Hon Lucy Powell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Manchester Central, Labour )
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Can I thank the honourable lady for all of the work that we have done together over the last year, in her role as shadow Leader of the House, we do work very closely together on Modernisation Committee, the House commission and other committees and boards. I feel like she has been here for a long time, she has really got into the detail of these issues, to clearly the restoration and program which has dedicated a huge amount of her time and energy to.

Moving forward, and I thank her for that, as the shadow Leader for the Lib Democrat, we might see a change in M.O. Over this recess and not have the first press release for recalling Parliament one week yesterday, as we generally have. If she could arrange that, we would be very popular with the House. She raises an important issue about making sure we have the instructor and transport infrastructure that we need in our communities. She will be aware the previous government announced a raft of projects, including some in her constituency, and in Essex, but without any plan to pay for them and that is why we had to look at all of those projects and make sure that only those that are fully costed and affordable can be given the green But I do understand her constituency area will be frustrated that the expansion will not progress as I hope, but very happy to arrange for her to have a meeting with the relevant minister to discuss options on the way forward.
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John Healey Portrait Rt Hon John Healey MP, The Secretary of State for Defence (Rawmarsh and Conisbrough, Labour)
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Thank you, Madame Deputy Speaker, with permission, I wish to make a statement on the war in Ukraine. Today is day 1239 since President Putin launched his full-scale invasion. And more than a decade since the Ukrainians have known piece in their homeland. They have had hopes destroyed, lands seized, children abducted, loved ones killed, by Putin's forces. And yet the Ukrainian people still fight with remarkable determination, military and civilian alike, and almost 3.5 years on, I am proud to say this House remains united for Ukraine.

And Britain remains united for Ukraine. In fact, polling shows that we retain the strongest public support for Ukraine of any European nation. The solidarity is grounded in our deep respect for their courage, and in recognition that the defence of Europe starts in Ukraine. Because we know, if Putin prevails in Ukraine, he will not stop with Ukraine. Madame Deputy Speaker, let me begin by providing a battlefield update. Russia is maintaining pressure along the whole length of the front line, with a focus on the north-east, and places in the south-east, as well as Kursk.

Last month, Russian ground forces likely sees approximately 550 km of Ukrainian territory, that is an area greater than the size of Greater Manchester. And yet, they face continuing difficulties, attempting to take fortified towns and cities, they have not taken a significant account for months. Indeed, they have tried, without success, to have tried, without success, to seize one for nearly a year. It is coming at great cost. Last month, the number of Russian troops killed and wounded surpassed more than a million.

This year alone, Russia has sustained 240,000 casualties. Despite these catastrophic Russian losses, Putin's Rufus ambitions do not appear to be waning. -- Ruthless ambitions. High numbers of attackers launched at Ukraine. 1,900 and launched at Ukraine. 1,900 and April. 4,000 in May, 5,000 in June, and already, this month, in July, 3,200. On 9 July, a week ago today, the largest aerial strike of the war was recorded when Russia launched more than 700 attack drones in a single night.

Despite the onslaught, the Ukrainians are taking the fight to Putin, striking military targets in Russia, that his people see and know about. Spiderweb, Madame Deputy Speaker, was in operation of remarkable precision and extraordinary success, which dealt a fierce blow to Putin. One year of meticulous planning, resulting in bombers, planes, which threaten not only Ukraine, and also NATO as well. Madame Deputy Speaker, we must step up now our efforts are getting further military support to the frontline.

Last month, on the Eve of the NATO summit, we welcomed President Zelensky to Number Ten Downing Street, where the Prime Minister signed a UK-Ukraine agreement to share enhanced battlefield capabilities, and technologies. A deal which means our defence industry can rapidly develop the cutting-edge technologies, from Ukraine, and step up their production for Ukraine. The NATO summit that followed, 32 nations came together to sign a new defence and national security investment pledge. To spend 5% of GDP by 2035. They came together, 32 nations, to reaffirm our commitment to Ukraine, with 40 billion clenched in security systems for this year.

It was a good summit for Ukraine, it was good summit for Britain, it was a good summit for NATO, it was a bad summit for Putin. Those commitments at NATO have been basis for President Trump to signal a significant shift this week, on Ukraine. Announcing that NATO weapons transfers and 50 day deadline for Putin to agree to peace, so with the NATO Secretary- General, President Trump agreed to large-scale purchases of US monetary equipment by NATO allies. Including Patriot missiles, air defence systems, and munitions which are committed to getting " Quickly committed to getting " Quickly We plan to pay our full part and on Monday we will discuss this further NHS the next meeting of the contact group alongside my German group alongside my German counterpart.

That group, the contact group, continues as the forum for more than 50 nations to provide Ukraine with what it needs to fightback at Putin's war machine. I am pleased that Monday's meeting will be attended by the US Secretary, the NATO Secretary- General, and others. Written is providing more than 4.5 billion military aid to Ukraine this year, more than ever before. I will provide the following updates, first, on the extraordinary acceleration scheme, two thirds of the U.K.'s ERA total of 2.26 billion has been dispersed.

Including 700 million of artillery shells, long- range rockets and air defence missiles, exactly what Ukraine needs most. Second, drones, since March, the UK has supplied nearly 50,000 drones to Ukraine, helping to meet our commitment to increase tenfold our supply this year. Third, air defence, the UK and Germany have agreed to partner in providing critical air defence missiles to Ukraine. Fourth, on the NATO comprehensive assistance package, the UK will donate a further £40 million, which Ukraine can use on a range of programs, from de-mining to rehabilitation the of the wounded.

It is now four months since President Zelenskyy responded to trumps peace negotiations with Ukraine's full commitment to an unconditional ceasefire. President Putin has shown no such interest in an end to the fighting. But peace in Ukraine is possible and we must be ready for when that peace comes. Since March, the UK and France have led the coalition on the planning new arrangements to support Ukraine in any ceasefire. More than 200 plans from 30 nations have worked intensively for weeks, with Ukraine and reconnaissance in Ukraine led by UK personnel.

Last week at the summit, they said this phase would detail military planning had concluded. I can confirm the command structures have been agreed for a future multinational force in Ukraine. The mission will be to strengthen the defences on the land, at sea and in the air because the Armed Forces are the best deterrent against future Russian aggression. It will include a three star command headquarter in Paris, rotating to London after 12 months. When the force deploys, there will be coordination in Kyiv.

Headed by a to start military officer. It will regenerate land forces by providing logistics and training experts, it will cure Ukraine's skies -- secure Ukraine's skies for the policing mission. And it will support safer sees by bolstering the Task Force with additional specialist teams. When peace comes, we will be ready. When peace comes, we will play our part in securing it for the long- term. Next month, the 21st... Apologies, next month, from 24 August, Ukrainians will gather to celebrate the Independence Day.

For celebrate the Independence Day. For another year, the anniversary of Ukraine's liberation will be marked under the pain of occupation. We must therefore move -- never lose sight of the illegal invasion of this proud sovereign nation. And we must never forget the price Ukraine is paying, fighting for its own freedom and the security of all free nations. Madam Deputy Speaker, the UK will stand with Ukrainian people, today, tomorrow, the day after and for as long as it takes for Ukraine to prevail.
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James Cartlidge Portrait James Cartlidge MP (South Suffolk, Conservative)
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I am grateful for the Secretary of State for advanced site of the statement, it was less than a month ago that the United States undertook the bombing raid of facilities, one of the most significant actions taken in the world. With such developments understandably dominating the headlines and almost 3.5 years collapsing since Russia first launched the unprovoked invasion, it is right that the government update the House, as we did, on defence in Ukraine. The reality is, there has been no letup in Russian aggression, on 9 July, we saw the largest drone attack by Russia and yesterday's report of Russia using 400 drones to target infrastructure and cities across Ukraine.

This barbarism has led to further civilian casualties, can the Secretary of State confirmed that on the military side, it is Russia that has suffered the greatest losses, last month, they surpassed one million. Does this not show the extent to which Putin has callous regard for the human impact of his actions on either side? We are proud of the assistance we provided in office to Ukraine and we will continue to stand with support but it is vital that all of our allies play their part.

On France, what was previously called the coalition of the willing, I agree we have to be ready for when peace comes, how many other nations will provide fighter jets? Can he confirm there is no longer any planning for inland combat element to the in NFU. In the United States, we welcome provision of military hardware by the US, on paying for it, he says we plan to play our part in full. Will the UK be purchasing equipment from the United States to pass on to Ukraine? The Secretary of State did not mention potential sanctions or tariffs, it has been reported that Trump is considering Paris of 100% on goods coming into the US from any country.

Has the government discussed this plan and will the UK follow suit? Today's times report the senior adviser has stated the imposition of secondary sanctions on nations following oil and gas from Russia could end the war before the end of this year. Does the Secretary of State agree and, would the UK join in any secondary sanctions policy directed against countries importing oil and gas. On Germany, we understand the Prime Minister is meeting the Chancellor to date, can I urge the government to push the counterpart on provision of the missiles to Ukraine, alternatively, given that we understand they are compatible with Typhoon, backfilling UK stops to enable provision of more missiles.

Turning to the impact on the UK, we understand Germany will sign an agreement today that we will come to each other's aid in the event of an attack on the other. How is this different from NATO Article 5? In my own discussions with senior German parliamentarians, as has been widely reported, Germans believe that Jeroen overflights of their military bases were linked to nefarious activity. In the context of recent threats, in particular, Jeroen overflights of Suffolk basis, can he update us on whether there is any indication of Russian involvement.

In particular, the progress of the review of security of UK bases that he announced last month. I stripped out a whole load of processes and redtape to accelerate the date of our groundbreaking laser, 2032. Given the potential for the weapons, can I ask the sector estate if he will accelerate the adoption further and ensure rapid testing in the context of anti-drone defence. And, on drones more broadly, in a written question, ministers confirmed they had ordered three military drones since the election.

I have tabled questions on progress and ministers now say they cannot answer, what is the latest figure. When SMEs have provided some of the best drones and countermeasures used on the battlefield in Ukraine, why are we not ordering the same kit in a parallel for our own army at scale and pace so we can train today, not years away, on how war is fought right now in Ukraine. To conclude, after 3.5 years of war, we have to keep reminding the British public that the most important point for our interest, namely that the best way to defend our homeland right now is to give all possible support to Ukraine so that the democracy trials over the dictatorship and stopped Putin's aggression from spreading.
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John Healey Portrait Rt Hon John Healey MP, The Secretary of State for Defence (Rawmarsh and Conisbrough, Labour)
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I welcome the Shadow Defence Secretary's update and I welcome his continued commitment to support the opposition. Backing the steps we are taking to support Ukraine, he is right to point out that the massive Russian casualties show the contempt for President Putin for the lives of his own people as well as those in Ukraine and he is right to point out that the level of Russian casualties and numbers those of Ukraine. On the coalition of the winning, there are 30 nations involved in the planning at this stage, we will keep it refreshed in a period up to the point of renewed ceasefire negotiations, which we hope to see soon.

As part of the plans as they stand at the moment, there will be activity in the air and on the sea. I am pleased to say that he backs military aid that we are putting into Ukraine. He asks questions about the coalition of the willing, I do not recall, and I have checked, I do not recall him backing the coalition of willing and I would like to ask him, does his party support Britain's leadership of the multinational force for Ukraine. As far as discussions on the trump NATO plan, these will be developed on Monday, the meeting that I will co- chair.

If sanctions and economic measures play a part in the actions that we, as an international committee, need to play, we will do that. His government had a good record, we have gone further in the last year as well, we have introduced, since July, over 500 new sanctions against individuals, entities, across all of the regimes, and we sanction them as a nation, a and we sanction them as a nation, a total of 289 vessels in the fleet. He asked me about a couple of other things, I will update the House when the full basic security through is complete.

On a DragonFire, he is right to say he was instrumental in the first steps of this UK technology but he left the program largely unfunded, we were already accelerating it, we put it into four of our naval vessels, not just one, on drones, he knows the people the question he keeps exciting is very specific. He knows that, after the strategic defence review, we are doubling to over £4 billion the amount of money in this Parliament that we will invest in autonomy and drones.

He knows we will establish a new drone centre of excellence which means we can accelerate the use of drones in every service, the army, for instance, will train thousands of operators, we will start rolling out 3,000 drones followed by over 1,000 surveillance drones. We will This is what we mean when we say we will bring the power of new technology alongside the heavy metal of platforms like tanks and planes and ships to make Britain the most innovative Armed Forces in NATO.

innovative Armed Forces in NATO.
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Helen Maguire Portrait Helen Maguire MP (Epsom and Ewell, Liberal Democrat)
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I also thank the Defence Secretary of advanced sight of his statement. We welcome the additional support to Ukraine as we must continue to support Ukraine to defend Europe. Russia's increased attacks. Pres Trump only now realises what has always been clear, that Russia's brutal dictator has no interest, so while I was relieved to see the present announced sanctions if no ceasefire is agreed within 50 days, we all know that he is as changeable as the wind.

No one has forgotten the humiliating ambush he made in the Oval Office, and there is nothing saying he won't do that again. A 50 day deadline could encourage Putin to estimate his attacks in the meantime. That is why the UK must go further to support Ukraine and increase pressure on the Kremlin. The Defence Secretary update the house towards seizing frozen Russian assets in the UK and deploying them to Ukraine, and what discussions are underway with European partners on doing the same across the continent? More must be done in terms of fuelling the war machine, and I recognise the Secretary of State has mentioned the shadow fleet, but can we do this in the Russian shadow fleet, including those already sanctioned by the EU, Canada and the US, and finally, the announcement on the multinational Ukraine, I welcome the U.K.'s role in shaping future security architecture we do need clarity on what this means in practical terms.

So the UK Armed Forces contribute, and will be a planned deployment of UK personnel on land, at sea or in the air once the mission is operational, and if so, deployment? operational, and if so, deployment?
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Chi Onwurah Portrait Dame Chi Onwurah MP (Newcastle upon Tyne Central and West, Labour)
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Thank you Madam Deputy Speaker. I am grateful to the Backbench Business Committee for allocating time for this statement. Today I speak on behalf of the Science, Innovation and Technology Select Committee. But also for the hundreds of thousands of people who whose lives were profoundly affected by last year's riots, as well as everybody impacted by the long shadow of social media misinformation. I want to put on record my thanks to the committee clerks, and specialists who have supported this inquiry.

As well as the many witnesses who gave evidence. By doing so they have helped to shape a report, and we are very grateful particularly to those who shared their real-life experience of the riots and the online hate to complete them. The committee would also like to extend our deepest sympathies to the families of the three little girls murdered in Southport and everyone affected. The UK, like many nations, is grappling with the immense challenge of regulating global tech giants.

Companies whose platforms shape our societies, economies, and democracies. Often with resources that dwarf those of governments. The entire UK public sector budget is about equal to matters market capitalisation for example. As the representative of the British people, it is essential that Parliament understands the impact of these companies and is able to scrutinise their actions and regulate them in the public interest when necessary. But the committee experienced significant challenges in seeking to do so during the course of the inquiry.

We were reassured by statements from Google, Meto, TikTok and X that they did accept their response ability to be accountable to the British people through parliament, and we hope to see this in practice as our work in this area continues. The horrific attacks in Southport on 29 July 2024, and the violent unrest which followed, are a stark reminder of the real world consequences and the viral spread of online misinformation. Hateful and misleading content spreads rapidly amplified by opaque recommendation algorithms.

Protests are violent and often target Muslims and migrant communities driven in part by the spread of the messages. The events proved a snapshot of how online activity can contribute to real- world violence and hate. Many parts of the long awaited Online Safety Act were not fully in force at the time of the riots, but the committee found little evidence that they would have made a difference if they were. Moreover, the act is out of date. It regulates at a technology and content level rather than on principles or outcomes.

Therefore it fails to adequately address generative AI, ChatGPT, deep fakes, and synthetic misinformation. Even as it becomes cheaper and easier to access it. Generative AI will make the next misinformation crisis much more dangerous. Having spent six years working for Ofcom before entering Parliament, I believe strongly that reggaeton technology does not work. Our online safety regime should be based on principles that remain sound in the face of technological development. Social media has many important positive contributions, in helping to democratise access and connects people far and wide.

But it also has significant risks. The advertisement -based business models of most social media companies means they promote engagement of content regardless of its authenticity. This spills out across the entire internet via the unclear under regulated digital advertising market. Incentivising the creation of content that will perform well on social media, as we saw in the 2024 unrest. So this is not just a social media problem. It is a systemic issue that promotes harmful content Our concerns were exacerbated when we questioned representatives of regulators and the government.

We were met with confusion and contradiction at high levels. The regime has some major holes. So, after four public sessions, it is clear for the British people are not adequately protected from online harms. We have identified five key principles that we believe are crucial for regulation of social media and related technologies which drive our recommendations to government. Firstly, public safety. Algorithmically enhanced misinformation is a danger that companies, government, law- enforcement and security services need to work together to address.

This is basically saying that misinformation is harmful. That may sound obvious, but it has not been recognised as such. As a consequence, platforms should be compelled to denote fact checked information and establish processes to take more stringent measures during crises. We propose that the government carry out research into how platforms should tackle misinformation and how far recommendation algorithms spread home. Furthermore, all AI content should be visibly labelled. Second principle, free and safe expression. Steps to tackle amplified misinformation should be in line with the fundamental right to free expression and measures to meet misinformation.

The third principle is responsibility. Users should be held liable for what they post online, but the platforms they post on is also responsible and should be held accountable for the impact of the amplification of harmful content. This may sound obvious and it is not the first time that a Select Committee has said this and yet there remains widespread uncertainty as to whether platforms have a responsibility for legal content. The report recommends that companies take risk assessments and report on content that is illegal but harmful.

New regulatory oversight, clear and enforceable standards and proportionate penalties are needed to cover the process of digital advertising. Forcefully control critically, users should have control over both their personal data and what they see online. We recommend users have a right to reset data used by platform recommendation algorithms, and our final principle, transparency. The technology used by social media companies including recommendation algorithms and generative AI should be transparent, accessible and explainable for authorities, and transparency is needed for participates in the digital advertising market.

Basically, if you can't do it, you can't understand the harm it may do. I am a tech evangelist. I believe technology like politics is an engine of progress. But that doesn't mean we have to accept it as it is. Our report sets out detailed recommendations to ensure that we do not have a repeat of the violent and harmful lie last year. We urge the government to acknowledge that the online safety act is not fit for purpose. To adopt these five principles to build a stronger futureproof online safety regime with clear enforceable standards for social media platforms and to implement the representations.

Without action, it is only a matter of time before we face another crisis like the Southport rise. Or even worse. Thank you.
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Tom Gordon Portrait Tom Gordon MP (Harrogate and Knaresborough, Liberal Democrat)
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Thank you Madam Deputy Speaker. I am grateful for the government engaging with the Joint Committee on Human Rights report for accountability for Daesh crimes and the response they have provided. There are some areas of welcome agreement. For instance, the government reiterated his commitment to ensuring justice for survivors. It agrees, rightly, that where there is evidence of international crimes such as genocide, individuals should be prosecuted for those crimes, not really for terrorism offences that failed to capture the full horror and scale of what has taken place.

Let me be clear, for all the government assurances, we are still left with the sobering reality, not one single Daesh fighter has yet been prosecuted in the UK for genocide. Crimes against duality, or war crimes of any sort. Not a single one. The UK is a signatory to the Genocide Convention. We are one of its founding champions. We cannot continue to rely on theoretical commitment while continuing to outsource accountability to other jurisdictions. Or to international courts with limited reach and limited resources.

The response repeatedly emphasises that prosecutions are best pursued close to where crimes occurred. But where that is not happening, and in many cases it is not happening, the UK cannot and must not turn a blind eye. If a British nationals takes part in genocide abroad, returns to the UK should mean they face justice if should be no safe havens for those who commit international crimes especially on UK soil. I'm disappointed government has rejected a recommendation to amend the International Criminal Court act 2001 to remove the current limitations based on nationality and residency.

This is not a radical departure from established practice. It's about closing a clear loophole that allows perpetrators of genocide and other international crimes to escape justice simply because of where they are from. UK exercises universal jurisdiction for torture, and for that grave breaches of the Geneva conventions. But why not for genocide as well? This is not a legal oversight, it is the failure of political will, one that continues to undermine survivors access to justice. The government claims that sufficient coordination exists between the CPS and war crimes team.

But despite those structures being in place since 2019, we are yet to see any meaningful outcomes. Structures alone are not enough. Survivors want justice not process. Coordination must be measured by results, and so far, the result is zero prosecutions for international crimes. I am also deeply concerned about the government 's stance on citizenship deprivation. The assertion that there is sufficient transparency does not hold up to scrutiny. The public deserve a regular reporting Parliament deserves the ability to scrutinise this powerful and exceptional tool.

Deprivation of citizenship should never be a substitute for due process. A way of quietly absolving ourselves of responsibility for British nationals involved in atrocity crimes overseas. Finally, on the issue of British nationals, including children detained in north-east Syria, we note the government's repeated statements on the practical challenges. I acknowledge the complexity of the security environment. The absence of precise public data, the slow pace of repatriation, and the ambiguity around next steps for those already detained, including potential prosecutions, remains deeply troubling.

These children are British nationals. Some are orphaned. Others are at risk of radicalisation and violence. Leaving them in indefinite limbo in unsafe camps is a moral and strategic failure. The UK should lead with humanity, clarity, and resolve. Madame Deputy Speaker, if we are serious about upholding the rule of law, if we mean that, but what we say about that Genocide Convention, if we truly honour the memory and suffer of survivors and victims of Daesh crimes, then we must go further than warm words and procedural reassurances.

We need action. We need prosecutions. You need leadership. Government has the opportunity to turn rhetoric into reality. I would urge ministers to reconsider the case for universal jurisdiction, for greater jurisdiction, for greater transparency and for a clearer more coordinated path to justice. We own nothing less to survivors and to own moral and legal obligations will thank you.
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None Portrait Backbench Business: General debate on the global plastics treaty
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Friday 12 September. Friday 12 September. We now come to the backbench debate on the to the backbench debate on the Global Plastics Treaty. I call
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Alistair Carmichael Portrait Rt Hon Alistair Carmichael MP (Orkney and Shetland, Liberal Democrat)
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Alistair Carmichael who will speak for around 15 minutes. Thank you Madam Deputy Speaker. I

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Thank you Madam Deputy Speaker. I beg to move that house is considered the matter of the Global Plastics Treaty. I would like to thank the Backbench Business Committee for Backbench Business Committee for making time available for this debate. And for allocating it for a session in the main chamber itself. I think that is an important signal to say this is something which we as a House have a political consensus, and to which we attach a great deal of importance.

I would like to thank also those other members who supported the application for the Backbench Business Committee. In particular my honourable friend from South Cotswolds who has a long and distinguished record of campaigning on this issue but is unfortunately unable to be with us. I would like to also express appreciation for the support of the various campaigners, both organisations and individuals, who have kept this issue in the public consciousness. Long. Not always in the easiest of circumstances. In particular in relation to the assistance of Greenpeace UK, but in the past I had a Private Members' Bill that was supported by a whole range of organisations from the Women's Institute through to Friends of the Earth.

That is what you have to call a broad-based consensus. This debate today is a timely one. The next round of talks on the UN Global Plastics Treaty will be held in Geneva from the fifth until 14 August. The government have a good record to tell in this. In fairness, they inherited a record from the previous government which also had accorded some political importance to this. The message I really want the chamber to send today is that the government really has to do all that it can, and not just in hesitation of the UK case, but the way in which we support others.

For those of us like myself who come from Ireland and Coastal Communities Fund the growth of Plastic Pollution Bill has been obvious for years. Ahead of this, I got an email a couple of days ago from a constituent of mine, Jim Chalmers, who said, " I remember as a child beach coming around the beach of Swansea and coming across the occasional unfamiliar mastic bottle and being intrigued by its novelty. It might have been an empty washing up liquid bottle, or even had words in a foreign.

Fast forward to 2025, and the beaches around Orkney and Shetland and right around the coastline and I think of all European countries, and the position is very very different. If when you go out on the beach and you think it looks pretty clean and pristine, you start looking up the small pieces of plastic, and 15 minutes later you will have a carrier bag full. In Orkney and Shetland we have a great range of initiatives to tackle this. In Orkney we have a campaign every year, and in Shetland another one.

Despite the community effort, people are taking response ability and picking up the rubbish and weeks later it is as if no one had ever been there. The tipping point for public consciousness in this was the blue planet series a few years ago. But that did create sufficient public pressure so in 2022 we had 175 countries to develop internationally legally binding instruments to address the problem of plastic pollution. This matters on so many levels. It is why I think the word global is absolutely clear.

And central. Plastics as an industry emits more carbon than the entire global aviation and the entire global shipping industries. The question I think that we should be looking at at this moment in time is to ask ourselves what exactly does a good look like the conclusion of the talks in Geneva? For the purposes of this, there is a fine summary that has come from the environmental in investigation agency head of the report. We should be looking for a global target to reduce production of primary plastic and relieved element.

The question of reduction is critical and I will return to it. They also called for clear and legally binding obligations to phase out the most powerful plastic products of chemicals and concerns of plastic. The binding obligation to improve the design of plastic ducks and ensure they cause minimum environmental impact and safeguard human health. Including supporting reuse. They look for effective means of implementing and for small island developing states. And finally they call for the use of regular UN procedures, if all efforts at consensus have been exhausted.

If we can achieve something along these lines in Geneva, then I think we

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will have some cause for optimism. I thank the member for giving way. And I congratulate him on securing this very important debate. securing this very important debate. He has outlined the important global action that we need to take on action that we need to take on plastics. Does he also agree that this government action to bring this government action to bring forward a Deposit Return Scheme, to ensure that we can recycle plastics, take them off the streets where they are currently ending up, and all the

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are currently ending up, and all the beaches you mentioned, does he agree it would also help to address these issues? A properly constructed nationwide

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A properly constructed nationwide Deposit Return Scheme, in Scotland, it was not everything it might have been. But properly constructed, it is critical. I know because I see is critical. I know because I see the Minister, accompanied by her constituency, she used to be from constituency, she used to be from Wakefield, Coventry. I see the mist on the bench I know she has a on the bench I know she has a tremendous personal commitment to tremendous personal commitment to this.

It is about creating what we call the circular economy. And it is call the circular economy. And it is a commitment that was genuinely held and DRS would sit with that. Most importantly of all, we think about somehow this being in conflict with business, the fundamental truth is that the best opportunity for business comes from a circular,. It is not just environmental, it is a business case that can be made as well. Ensuring that we have in the treaty the strongest possible reduction targets is going to be absolutely critical.

And this is where the contention has arisen in previous rounds of talks, and I think we can agree the same arguments will be rehearsed. The most important point is this idea that somehow the whole thing is going to be fixed by recycling for top that you can just keep producing vertical plastics at an exponential rate. We reckon that the current exceptionally high levels will be travelled by 2060 we don't do anything to arrest that. And somehow we can fix it by recycling.

Given the nature of the people who advance it, particularly amongst the big plastic companies and chemical companies, it is downright disingenuous was the they know just how difficult it is because of the vast numbers of plastics that there are available for combinations. To actually recycle plastic. We have a good record in this country in terms of collecting plastic for recycling. And the truth of the matter is we recycle very little of it. We export a horrible amount of it.

I think we exported 2024 598 million kg for recycling. But once it is exported we don't know if it is recycled. And then of course you have the growth of incineration. We have seen the number of incinerators go from 38 to 52 in the last five years alone. So, this idea that recycling alone is a silver bullet is not going to be the thing that will see the meaningful reduction. What you need to achieve is this On production.

We also understand that one of the biggest barriers in Geneva itself is going to be the role of the plastics industry itself. They are exceptionally well resourced. They are rooted downstream in the oil and gas industry. I personally am pragmatic about the use of oil and gas. I think until you have other technologies that can take its place, it is for this test, but I see little in the behaviour in relation to this part of the debate to recommend itself.

The last round of talks in Korea, the industry itself has all come as one delegation which would have been the largest delegation at the talks. The UK delegation, I'm pleased to say, it is the gold standard in this. It is well resourced, well informed by scientific advisers. But that in itself isn't a cause for complacency or for being smug about this. It gives us an opportunity to help and support others. The Select Committee that I chaired took evidence in a global Lasix treaty just last week on 8 July.

And some of what I heard there was genuinely shocking. Prof Richard Thompson OB, professor of marine biology at the University said moreover, scientists I work with have been threatened on UN premises as part of these negotiations. Almost what I would consider a fundamental right to science and access is being denied. It particularly falls on some of the smaller nations. DEFRA is very well blessed and can afford to spend big delegation of highly trained scientists which is fantastic, but they stand aside small island developing nations which perhaps only have one individual there.

The need for a science mechanism is actually mandated in the near 514 and we need it really urgently to address this issue. It was one of those moments I had to stop and say just a second. Did you see what I thought you said there? And he basically was, even after we had explained to him the situation he was in, as a very eminent scientist, giving evidence to the Select Committee of the House of Commons, with all the protection and privilege, even then, he was not comfortable calling out in detail what was happening.

But the fact of the matter is that we know that it is, so if we are going to get this treaty across the line, then it needs the UK to be robust, not just in presentation of our own case, but in supporting and protecting those who are less fortunate than we are. The small island nations, the campaigners and the scientists who are there on their own finance. The final ask will be there. There should be, in the course of this negotiation, when it matters, a ministerial presence in Geneva.

I think that would be a really important signal that the government could send about the seriousness of their intent. You said I would speak for 15 minutes, I think I have had 14, so I am just going to return to the email that I got from Jim Chalmers to finish this. Because he went on and said I'm sure I have a reputation as that weird guy that carries a bag with him when he's out with the dog, picking up. However, I know I am urinating in the wind.

He didn't actually say urinating. Urinating into the wind as I have no control whatsoever over the source of this stuff, and the forces that encourage and permit its growing release. I appreciate this the 17th of this month is not a good time for you to be away from Orkney. There's never a good time to be away from Orkney, but if you can somehow bring any influence to bear, I would feel my efforts aren't totally in vain. It is for people like my constituent and his links right across this country and their hope on the efforts of the government and like- minded countries to get the treaty that we know we need and that our planet deserves.



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The question is on the order paper.

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paper. I thank my honourable friend for

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I thank my honourable friend for raising this debate. I know it is something that he is deeply committed to. I want to draw committed to. I want to draw attention to data are part of this crisis that is often overlooked but no less urgent, plastics, and I know the Minister is passionate about this too. These tiny fragments, so much smaller than a grain of rice,
14:37
Leigh Ingham Portrait Leigh Ingham MP (Stafford, Labour)
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much smaller than a grain of rice, right now everywhere. They have reached the depths of our oceans, the highest mountain peaks, and the harm they cause is far from small. We know from signs that micro- plastics are being eaten by fish, birds and insects. They harm wildlife from the inside out. Disrupting feeding, damaging organs and carrying toxic chemicals, and that impact doesn't just a the wild. It spreads through ecosystems, through food chains and into our own bodies. And what troubles me the most is micro-plastics are largely invisible.

We can't see them but we are living with them every day. And it is not a global problem. It is a local one-two. In Stafford, we are lucky to have places like the Doxy marshes, the river weaving through our towns and villages. These are places where families walk their dogs, children are paddling in the water, anglers fishing and wildlife is thriving. They are not as part of

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our landscape but part of who we are. They are also part of what we are

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They are also part of what we are wearing because microfibres are a wearing because microfibres are a key part of addressing this issue about plastics and I wonder if, like me, she is interested in what they me, she is interested in what they have done in France to get companies to disclose when microfibres are part of the material of the clothing part of the material of the clothing and part of tackling the fast fashion crisis that we have as people understanding what they are

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people understanding what they are wearing and the damage that can be doing to our environment because it is micro-plastics. I thank my friends are

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I thank my friends are intervening. I wasn't familiar with that for some it is something I am thinking about when trying to buy clothes, making sure we are buying from natural fibres and it is so from natural fibres and it is so much tougher to do that. You find yourself really having to search so yourself really having to search so it is something we could look at as well. It sounds like a sensible piece of work. But going back to the spaces I talked about, when I'm talking to residents in my constituency, they all tell me that constituency, they all tell me that they are really worried.

They want their children and grandchildren to grow up enjoying clean water, grow up enjoying clean water, wildlife and safe green spaces. So they are right to demand that of me. That is why I think micro-plastics might be a core part of any global sticks treaty. It is not enough to tackle the waste we can see. We also need to tackle the waste we can't see, so I welcome the work of the and I know I am speaking to ministers briefly to the subject, and I consider it important.

I urge them to continue to act because we have a responsibility to lead and a duty to protect the places that we call home. We are to future generations to make sure that the river still supports life, that our farmland remains healthy, and that the natural beauty of Stafford doesn't become a victim of short- term decisions. This is our chance term decisions. This is our chance now so let's not waste it.
14:40
Richard Foord Portrait Richard Foord MP (Honiton and Sidmouth, Liberal Democrat)
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The world produces over 460 million tonnes of plastic each year, and on our current trajectory, plastic pollution is set to triple by 2040. Every year, 11 million tonnes of plastic goes into our ocean, and in Devon, this picture is very obvious. According to the Marine conservation data, an average of 103 letter items were found per 100 m of beach in Devon. The vast majority of single use plastics and packaging, and anyone who is going to take the very wise decision of having to take a holiday in Devon this year will see it from themselves.

I see it for myself. Bottles and wrappers are washing-up with the tide, waged between pebbles entangled in seaweed. We are very fortunate to have some fantastic volunteers, groups like Sidmouth plastic warriors who give freely of their time to clean our beaches, and in their last outing last month, 30 people picked up an incredible 70 bags of litter. Their work is extraordinary, but there should not be 70 bags of plastic litter on the beaches of Sidmouth. And the problem of course doesn't start on the beach.

It starts and how we produce things in the first place. There are serious shortcomings in the UK recycling. We were sold a method that if we just spent a little bit of time each week sorting our rubbish, the problem would take care of itself. But actually, in 2024, clean help reported that the UK exporting 600,000 tons of plastic waste around the world to countries to be recycled and to places that don't have the infrastructure to recycle properly. Much of this has been burned or dumped, and we have seen evidence that it is polluting other companies ecosystems while we

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take a box and say it has been recycled. I think the honourable gentleman

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I think the honourable gentleman for giving way, and on this for giving way, and on this important point about the capacity of different countries to hit certain standards, he may have in certain standards, he may have in his constituency reprocessed his constituency reprocessed countries that re-purpose it. And I think an important part of this debate has to be about packaging export where they are given an equivalent and taken to places like country which has lower standards which is bad British businesses and which is bad British businesses and bad for global requirements.

I would

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love to hear a bit more about this. Makes a very good point. The

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Makes a very good point. The business of our standards being very different is one which we should different is one which we should look at. Processing notes plainly look at. Processing notes plainly are something we need to look at. We need to go about negotiations to improve standards elsewhere, and the UK has high standards internationally in our recycling, but it is simply not acceptable to simply offshore the problem. Plastic waste is not only harmful to people, it is killing seabirds.

Hundreds of thousands of sea mammals and turtles and fish, and is having a devastating impact on our environment more broadly.

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Just quickly, I wanted to ask him if he agreed that the government if he agreed that the government banning of disposable plastic vapes is another way that we can help

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is another way that we can help reduce some of this plastic waste that he mentions. She makes an excellent point. It

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She makes an excellent point. It is an initiative I voted in favour of when it came before us, the banning of disposable plastic vapes was very welcome. But still, there is too much waste ending up is too much waste ending up incinerated. We think will be recycled is being burned. The number recycled is being burned. The number of incinerators in the UK has risen from 38 to 52 in recent years in the from 38 to 52 in recent years in the last five years, and this is the dirtiest form of energy production going to more greenhouse gases than any other method.

While my any other method. While my constituents may have been enjoying their ice creams at Seaton or their ice creams at Seaton or walking on the coast path during the recent heatwave, these hotter summers are also a stark reminder of summers are also a stark reminder of our collective failure to tackle our collective failure to tackle If we can improve the amount of practice we use, if we can create the circular economy the right honourable Member referred to, then we can use less disposable plastic, less single-use plastics, and therefore reduce carbon emissions.

Germany is the leading recycle of mutable waste in the EU. This is partly down to its deposit refund scheme. Recycling rates on plastic bottles have reached an outstanding 98% in Germany. Thanks to, and have to acknowledge it, the measures that the government introduced in January, the Deposit Return Scheme for plastic and metal containers will go live in the UK in 2027. This scheme will offer a small refund for returning bottles and cans in the UK, it is a practical step towards reusing plastic.

And while national action is welcome, we need to match our own UK action with international leadership in the UK can be a real leader in this space. We can force our ambition in this Global Plastics Treaty, to be matched by other countries. We must push for legally binding targets to reduce plastic production elsewhere not just voluntary pledges. China for example is somewhere we are sure a lot of our production too. It accounts for 40% of the world plastic production.

We know that these carbon emissions produces results which are staggering. We have to do something about it. If the government is serious about deepening ties with Beijing, they must also be serious about holding it to account, and that starts with applying pressure here at the Global Plastics Treaty negotiations. As we know, the US president has never been a great advocate for tackling climate change, or reducing plastic waste. He made that abundantly clear in his attention seeking stunts in February and he proudly brought back plastic straws.

Earlier this month, the heads of delegation meeting took place. We saw the US backtrack on previous positions, walking away from early commitment on measures and coming out firmly against plastic production caps. The Prime Minister has exquisitely cited family values as a foundation of his strong relationship with the president. Could the Minister then urged the Prime Minister to leverage that personal connection, ask the president to consider not just global leadership but also the world that the family of the US president will inherit? We have to consider young people in this picture.

And for that we will need serious commitments, concrete commitments in

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the plastics treaty. He is making a good speech much of which I agree with. Does he agree that, I'm sure he will visit many schools like myself, and they are very concerned about the very concerned about the environment, and to ensure that environment, and to ensure that policy does reflects this, and plastic production is reduced?

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plastic production is reduced? The honourable Member is dead

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The honourable Member is dead right. I have had children write to me from Sidmouth primary school earlier in the year. They were earlier in the year. They were urging me to advocate for reduced urging me to advocate for reduced plastic use, and cutting down our plastic use, and cutting down our plastic use. I quoted from what they had written to me, and that Minister for nature who is not in her place for nature who is not in her place summed up the debates with their summed up the debates with their words.

Let's be honest, voluntary efforts have failed. In the past five years, the WWF has reported five years, the WWF has reported that Plastic Pollution Bill has increased by 50%. Despite a 60% rise in national and voluntary initiatives. This treaty must tackle the source of the problem. Reduction of plastic, and confront the power of the fossil fuel lobby which is deftly trying to water down these talks. At last year's round of negotiations, 220 fossil fuel lobbyists were there, and their goal was to protect their own profits.

We cannot allow short-term commercial interests to derail long-term health of our oceans and communities. Mastic production triples by 2040, it is forecast. We don't act, the recycling scheme will be enough. And to once again hand the last paragraph to those children at Sidmouth primary school, they want to see deeds not words. Thank you.

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Thank you Madam Deputy Speaker. It is a pleasure to follow the It is a pleasure to follow the honourable Member. We usually sit together on the Foreign Affairs together on the Foreign Affairs Committee. And nowhere is global Committee. And nowhere is global cooperation more important than in climate work. I would like to thank the honourable Member for Orkney and Shetland for securing this important Shetland for securing this important debate, and his brilliant speech which eloquently set out the case which eloquently set out the case for why this is so important.

My honourable friend for Stafford, not
14:51
Uma Kumaran Portrait Uma Kumaran MP (Stratford and Bow, Labour)
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to be confused with Stratford, has spoken about microplastics. One of my honourable Friend last year, a member. Had a debate on this topic. Following that, last November ahead of the previous round of treaty negotiations, honourable members from the House came together to debate the same issue. And now, at this final run-in negotiations, we are coming back together. Countries are on the verge of finalising potential powerful international agreements. Its impact will be limited unless it addresses the root of the problem, plastic production.

When estimates suggest in the two and half years since negotiations with the treaty started, globally we have produced over 1 billion metric tonnes of plastic. The scale is staggering and unimaginable. One thing is clear, no amount of recycling can keep up with the scale of plastic waste we are producing. If we don't collectively and urgently act, the crisis will escalate. Plastic productions are projected to travel by 2060. This will affect our planet. The member mentioned the ecosystem of our beaches.

As we have heard, my honourable friend for Ealing mentioned single use items such as disposable vapes. And disposable vans was the one is dumped in Britain every 90 seconds. Most end up in Global South, and risk environmental damage was I'm out of that on the legislation committee led by the Minister here today to ban them and that is a Labour government is taking real action. There are interest groups working to undermine our ambition. Having participated in international biodiversity and climate talks, both in my previous role before I entered this House and since, I've seen at work first hand what this looks like a top voice is in the room determined to stalled talks and undermine local and national ambition.

The shocking truth as we have heard, 220 fossil fuel lobbyists present at the last round of talks in the plastics committee for top together fossil fuel and chemical industry lobbyists would be the single largest delegation present. Larger than the EU and larger than all its member states. Larger than all of Latin America. Fossil fuel industries outnumber delegates two to one. These are nations seeing the effects of marine plastic pollution and already paying the price the cost of our inaction.

We cannot allow the voice of the fossil fuel industry to be louder than the cry of our planet. Or more influential than the testimony of science. We cannot allow it to be more powerful than the voices of our constituents, and those wanting to create a more sustainable future for future generation. In London, we have shown another future is possible. But it does require old leadership. We are one example of this, where a world leading city in eliminating plastics from major music and sports events, two local initiatives who work with businesses on the high street to get rid of single-use plastics items and similarly plastics free Roman road.

Last week I met with a group of constituents from Stratford and Bow at that climate information lobby in Parliament. Mary told me that she was there to lobby for an end to our dependency on fossil fuel. She was therefore have four grandchildren and their futures. My constituency is clear. The time to act is now a stop must put people on the planet for polluting industries. I spoke about this before in my constituency we have prize-winning company which, the last time I mentioned in Parliament, he single-handedly removed 21 million items of single- use plastics using the innovative seaweed-based alternative.

Today the number has risen to 26 million items. The ambition exists we all need to seize this moment. The cost of inaction is mass climate displacement. Dry metal disruption displacement. Dry metal disruption and worsening stability. I want to thank the Minister pushing for an ambitious treaty and I join all members in calling for all member states to agree to a legally binding edges to address the production and consumption of plastics. And finally to deliver the treaty that meets the scale of the crisis.



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Thank you Madam Deputy Speaker. I thank my honourable Friend for thank my honourable Friend for bringing forward this very valuable and important debate. I used to be a and important debate. I used to be a Wiltshire counsellor working on the issue of plastic recycling. My issue of plastic recycling. My constituency, like all our constituencies, has been blighted by the sight of waste plastic by the the sight of waste plastic by the roadside. It is clear that bolder action is needed to tackle the sheer action is needed to tackle the sheer amount of stick pollution that we have created.

Both here and abroad. have created. Both here and abroad. That is why we must join and support Global Plastics Treaty. In an
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14:58
Samantha Niblett Portrait Samantha Niblett MP (South Derbyshire, Labour)
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another reservoir. In a farmland where farmers are left to deal with waste after they are increasingly deal with floods due to the climate crisis will stop in credit where it is due, my constituents are pleased to see response actions to reduce plastic use such as at a musical festival held at Walton on Trent, whose organisers only use reusable cups that are taken off-site and washed and reused year after year. Pollution is a global problem. There is not one corner of the world that has not been affected by the overproduction of plastics.

Microplastics are ubiquitous. Even find those in the Antarctica. In plastic production is predicted to travel by 2060. Only 9% of plastic globally is recycled. Most of the U.K.'s is incinerated with a number of incinerators having surged from 38 to 52 in the last five years. Incineration is the dirtiest form of energy production in the UK, bidding to greenhouse gasses which heat our planet, and release toxic fumes that have serious and harmful health impact. In South Derbyshire, we are expecting the result of an appeal to the proposed incinerator at the end of July.

I stand with my constituents in opposing it but we also need to reduce our waste. The East Midlands is the second worst region in the country for waste, with Derbyshire the worst offender in the East Midlands was top if we had less plastic we would have less waste there would be no justification at all for any new incinerators. I urge the government ahead of the next round of talks on the UN plastics treaty in Geneva in August, to continue to be ambitious in cutting plastic production.

We will fail future if we accept a watered-down agreement. I call on the government to immediately introduce a UK-wide moratorium on introduce a UK-wide moratorium on new incinerators capacity, and to secure a strong global targets to cut plastic production at the UN plastics treaty negotiations. Public support for action could not be stronger. Over 220,000 people across the UK took part in the big plastic count last week. A remarkable display of citizen science which laid bare just how pervasive and persistent plastic is in our daily lives.

More than 600,000 have signed Greenpeace UK petition calling for a strong meaningful treaty. It is a public mandate this House cannot ignore. As a member of the parliament we have a duty to act both the constituents we represent today, and for future general to come. Plastic pollution chokes our oceans, poisons wildlife, and breaks down into microplastics that we find in our soil, our food and bodies. I urge the government to reject half measures. C this moment to put people and planet before plastic.

Let's use this opportunity for green job investment and move further towards a circular economy that necessitates less packaging and secures a legacy that future generation will thank us for. The one that leaves so many people fearful for their futures. We cannot fearful for their futures. We cannot

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And I thank the member from Orkney and Shetland for bringing this debate, and if I can highlight this debate, and if I can highlight one point around the circular economy, if we get the regulation economy, if we get the regulation right, if we get the incentives right, this is not only good for the environment, it can begin for business and the economy as well, and it is an important point to keep and it is an important point to keep emphasising.

I would like to use my short time to connect this global issue to our local communities. Let issue to our local communities. Let me start with the global problem. Every year, over 12 million tonnes of plastic are dumped into our of plastic are dumped into our oceans. I did hear 11 million from my honourable friend, but it is my honourable friend, but it is obviously a huge number, and it represents an outer crisis, one that represents an outer crisis, one that affects marine life, ecosystems, and ultimately, us as well.

And to many ultimately, us as well. And to many people, something like a UN treaty might seem a bit abstract and might seem a bit abstract and remote, and some will even go as far assist eight is not worth the debate time in this chamber because it is time in this chamber because it is too hard to imagine the average person bringing it up, but I don't think that is right. I don't it is right because it matters, but because the population have shown that they do care about this issue.

My friend mentioned the popularity of Attenborough's TV documentary and how that has ignited people. I see that sort of issue raised with the impact on local environment. I don't have oceans anywhere near my London constituency, but I do have a beautiful chalk stream that runs all the way through it, and people see the letter, they care about it, they see the plastic damage in particular, and we have been introducing new monitoring to understand the damage that some of these micro-plastics can do.

People are proud of the local surroundings, and I don't make it is too big of a step to think about the oceans across the world when they think about their local area as well. And it is not just adults that are starting to care. I think the next generation, this is a titanic issue.
15:04
Bobby Dean Portrait Bobby Dean MP (Carshalton and Wallington, Liberal Democrat)
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I recently received a bundle of passionate letters from a year for class. I say passionate because at times, I think they were a little times, I think they were a little harsh on me. I will not take it harsh on me. I will not take it personally, but they are at pains to point out that they don't think we are doing enough, that we are not are doing enough, that we are not moving fast enough, and a quite clear about their demands. And they clear about their demands.

And they went into detail. They took about oceans, plastic, and for the future of the planet, I found the letters, of the planet, I found the letters, reading that one afternoon, pretty powerful and it reminded me of the powerful and it reminded me of the duty that we all have to act now. So, when we talk about the global plastics treaty, I think it is plastics treaty, I think it is important that we keep making this relevant back to the local communities. It is a once in a generation opportunity to create a legally binding thing, but for it to legally binding thing, but for it to work, it has to be ambitious, to be enforceable, and it has to be enforceable, and it has to be supported by everybody, and taking the public with us on this issue is going to get more difficult.

There going to get more difficult. There are people in this chamber who are going to push back against it, think it is a waste of time, a problem to it is a waste of time, a problem to be solved by others elsewhere, and we will have to keep building that support. And in doing that, we have to look at this. The pressure is to be more responsible consumers, and I think consumers have played their part. They have been willing to put up opportunities, to take on wooden forks and spoons, to put up paper straws despite the pain that all of those things can be competitive what we had before, but they played their part, now it is our turn in this place to put the pressure back onto producers and make sure that they play their part as well.

That doesn't mean that we shouldn't listen to producers any more when they do highlight problems with some of the schemes that we create. The government has extended the scheme which was meant to be introducing responsibility across the life-cycle of products, but sometimes, there are issues of implementation. I hear from pubs and hospitality industry about the undue burdens placed on small businesses and we need to work out mechanisms for correcting

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unintended consequences of these policies as well. I agree with him about the need

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I agree with him about the need to take business with us in to take business with us in Scotland. We have a real challenge is the government trying to impose things on the general market does he agree with me that this was an example of something where it went example of something where it went wrong if we don't take business with

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us? I do agree with him. If we close our ears, we will miss these our ears, we will miss these problems, frustrate public and lose their support, but if we listen hard, we can fix the schemes and hard, we can fix the schemes and rescue the action that we want to take in this place to help the whole environment, otherwise the other environment, otherwise the other side will win the argument and shutdown initiatives to see already, so we need to keep listening as we so we need to keep listening as we introduce the schemes and make sure the public don't feel fatigued by the public don't feel fatigued by this.

So, I hope the point I'm making is clear. This is not about treaties and targets but about protecting things across the world protecting things across the world and making it back to communities and maintaining their support. It is about listening to the voices of about listening to the voices of young people, and I just want to end with something that I have deftly stolen, work experience person this week. She said to me that we are burgeoning future generations with plastic debt. And I think it is time we stopped paying it back.
15:07
Claire Hughes Portrait Claire Hughes MP (Bangor Aberconwy, Labour)
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And I thank the honourable member for Orkney and Shetland for bringing forward this really important debate. Plastic pollution is a global problem which requires international coordination. Everyone in this house is agreed on this. It is a serious issue. This UK government is already setup plans to stop the avalanche of rubbish that is filling our streets, rivers and oceans. I want to speak briefly about the action the Welsh Labour government has taken to tackle plastic pollution.

Wales became the first nation in the UK to ban single use plastics. This means that items such as balloon sticks, cotton bud sticks canola be sold and supplied in Wales. The Welsh government has also announced plans to go further, banning wet wipes that contain plastic with a target date of December 26, and I'm also delighted that Wales has just agreed to accelerate plans for deposit return schemes to enable it to be brought forward on a worldwide basis, sorry, UK wide basis.

Wales is ranked second for recycling rates, something which we are very proud of. I also want to put on record my thanks to some of the organisations in my constituency who have done a stellar job in raising awareness of the issues around plastic pollution and tackling behaviour change so people like plastic free communities initiative, villages around there, organising a beach cleanup who have done a lot of work in this area. Also, the plastic research centre, a lot of work around micro-plastics, Staffordshire, micro-plastics is a huge issue.

They have also been found on a remote lake at the top of Mount Snowdon so it is a super topic that they are dedicated to

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researching on. Does my honourable friend agree

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Does my honourable friend agree with me that the work of community groups such as the cleanup crew in my constituency or think about my constituency or think about plastic are crucial to fighting the blight of plastic pollution and the

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blight of plastic pollution and the terrible effects it is happening on marine life and environment? I think my fanfare intervention.

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I think my fanfare intervention. I agree for community groups across, whether Wales, Scotland, England, are raising awareness, cleaning up beaches, which is really important for wildlife which is often the for wildlife which is often the victims of plastic pollution. So, one piece of research published this one piece of research published this year has shown that the combined effect of ocean warming and micro- effect of ocean warming and micro- plastic pollution could severely damage marine ecosystems in particular, with significant consequences not just the climate consequences not just the climate but food security.

As the co-author of this research Prof says, this is a wake-up call but also a call to a wake-up call but also a call to action. So we all agree that we need action. So we all agree that we need local action to guard against plastic pollution. We need to work together to find solutions and I together to find solutions and I look forward to any comments that the Minister can provide at the end of this debate today ahead of this really vital meeting to be happening in Geneva next month.



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I am delighted to hear all the work that is going on in her community and this is happening community and this is happening across the country in places such as Dawlish and Newton Abbot within my Dawlish and Newton Abbot within my constituency. However, I am still constituency. However, I am still written to by the Marine conservation Society who are saying the plastic pollution in the UK has risen by 9.5% on the beaches between 23 and 24. And indeed, in Devon, we 23 and 24.

And indeed, in Devon, we have an average of 103 items of plastic picked up on everyone plastic picked up on everyone hundred metres of beach. Does the lady agreed that this is not only a situation we have to deal with in

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situation we have to deal with in our communities but also internationally ?$$NEWLINE I would agree, and perhaps a minister would address this when he responds would address this when he responds and finishes this debate. Thank you.

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and finishes this debate. Thank you. I do make my comments within the context of my register of interest. context of my register of interest. I would like to start by thanking the honourable member for Orkney and Shetland for tabling this debate. It Shetland for tabling this debate. It is an issue which resonates strongly with many residents of the south- west and it is not an understatement west and it is not an understatement to say we have been inundated with emails on this.

So plastics are everywhere. As we have heard already, they are in construction, healthcare, clothing and furniture, everywhere. It is estimated that around 14 million tonnes of micro- plastics are lying on the ocean floor right now and the fashion industry are among the biggest sources. My former colleague was part of a team who find micro- plastics in green mussels sold in traditional seafood markets in
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Scott Arthur Portrait Dr Scott Arthur MP (Edinburgh South West, Labour)
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Jakarta. They estimated that the human intake of micro-plastics from muscle ingestion ranged from 9000 and 12,000 items per person per and 12,000 items per person per year. Mark was also part of the team which identified micro-plastics and which identified micro-plastics and seagrass in the area. The honourable seagrass in the area. The honourable member for Auckland and Shetland spoke to the blades at the seagrass in some cases. Elsewhere, a small team headed by Dr Lisa McIntyre, team headed by Dr Lisa McIntyre, associate professor of textiles at the University School of textiles and design, in the constituency of the member for Roxburgh and Selkirk the member for Roxburgh and Selkirk who is here today, she has overseen painstaking research to codevelop the world's first visual fibre the world's first visual fibre fragmentation scale for this is really important because, if you are a fashion designer, I'm not sure how many of them are in the chamber many of them are in the chamber today, you can use this to selecting designs to see how likely it is designs to see how likely it is those fibres are to fall off, so incredibly important work.

We know it is not just clothing that is the problem. Global plastic production is set to triple over the next three decades, as we've heard, and waste management structures are ill- prepared to deal with this. It is right that we take the plastics threat seriously forced in Scotland.

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Does he share my horror that global plastic production more than global plastic production more than doubled by 2050, and constituents feel very strongly about this. feel very strongly about this. People across Edinburgh do, so does People across Edinburgh do, so does he join me in calling for a global plastic treaty?

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plastic treaty? I agree. I know this is an important point in his constituency but frankly, through changes, that but frankly, through changes, that is much rarer. It is still an issue. So in Scotland alone, it is So in Scotland alone, it is estimated that we generate around 300,000 tons of plastic packaging 300,000 tons of plastic packaging items annually and as of 2020/21, we were only recycling around 4 1/2 thousand tons. Each year, each thousand tons. Each year, each month, we export around 100 tons of waste from Scotland.

The different waste from Scotland. The different parts of the UK and right across the world and it is an export that I'm world and it is an export that I'm not proud of. Also, poor planning on not proud of. Also, poor planning on the part of the Scottish Government means that by the start of next year, we will be 100 tons of waste per day moving from Scotland into England to be processed. This is clearly not sustainable but it seems like we have come all too comfortable with the idea that out of sight out of mind is the case where it comes to this, and we have to remember, once we lose sight of our waste, we lose control of what is happening to it, and this is an issue that many residents give out in particular.

Even if we were to develop the processing capacity of home, dealing with plastics will always be a problem so long as our consumption remains high. I therefore believe that a much stronger focus needs to be placed on the use and development of a circular economy as we heard earlier, not just in Scotland but In my constituency I'm proud that many organisations promote reuse. I recently spent an afternoon checking out one of these ventures called the out one of these ventures called the Forwards.

-- the Forge. It provides tools facilities and training for people from all walks of life including students, DIY enthusiasts, and homeless people. When I visited there was a young man who was making a hat, he intended to make a pirate hat for a pirate festival. I googled where this pilot festival was but it turned out it could be almost turned out it could be almost anywhere. As well as the hat block, I sought tables being made, chest of drawers being constructed and kitchen utensils.

More initiatives like this could dramatically cut overreliant on plastics, or empower us to create long lasting alternatives. Reuse materials and develop lifelong skills in the process. Another charity in the south-west which is under a bit of pressure right now is an Edinburgh furniture initiative. They sell largely used furniture and household items and they help to solve Edinburgh's housing crisis. It is a fantastic project. The plastic consumption and processing operates across borders making this an issue that requires a truly joined up approach.

That is why I fully support the Deposit Return Scheme which covers the entirety of the UK. I look forward to its introduction in 2027. This may not be quick enough for some people, and I do respect that, we have to balance the pressing need for change with the economic realities that many small businesses face, as they adapt to new regulations. I have to say others have said this point, but if you want to see how not to do this, please look to the Scottish Government.

It is an absolute embarrassment. Proper consultation is important. I think Scotland has shown that. At global level I'm proud the government is recognising the importance of tackling plastic pollution, internationally binding treaties. UN talks held in South Korea last year was supported by draft text legally binding production and phasing out harmful chemicals and single-use plastics. Unfortunately, a consensus could not be reached, largely due to the usual suspects amongst whom China and Russia all pushing back against these targets. The negotiations will remain highly contentious, and these economies are heavily reliant on plastic as part of their economy and want to hang onto it.

Having read the evidence to the committee earlier this week, I think an inclusive two to model could go some way towards resolving the disagreement if we can get them to be as bold and ambitious as the UK is. Some may see this as a compromise which lets major polluters off the hook but I believe international cooperation is vital. Similar models have worked well in terms of getting nations signed up to some kind of baseline target. This would help break the deadlock and allow high ambitious states like the UK to set and hit older targets leading by example.

Something is better than nothing to stop we must make progress on this issue, and a global treaty is essential if we

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want to protect our planet and the health of future generations. Thank you Madam Deputy Speaker. Thank you Madam Deputy Speaker. I

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Thank you Madam Deputy Speaker. I am delighted my honourable friend with whom I served in the Opposition with whom I served in the Opposition DEFRA team for three years has responded to this debate and I look responded to this debate and I look forward to that. With less than one month to go until the next round of the UN plastic treaty in Geneva, we the UN plastic treaty in Geneva, we must ensure the international and domestic focus keeps us on track. We must ensure the UK delegation is must ensure the UK delegation is clear, so I thank those who have
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Alex Sobel Portrait Alex Sobel MP (Leeds Central and Headingley, Labour )
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clear, so I thank those who have taken part in the debate today. It is difficult to achieve the level of fossil fuel lobbyists which arise at each and every round of talks. These fossil fuel lobbyists seek to derail the talks to prevent any limits to plastic production being agreed. We have seen this before. With the tobacco industry for the cannot allow private interests to take precedence over the mismanagement of plastics, plastic leakage into the environment and associating greenhouse gas emissions was throughout the end of my time on the Environmental Audit Committee, we looked at plastic waste from 2021.

In the three years since it has been published, plus change. Recycled plastic is difficult. Globally only 9% of plastic has ever been recycled. Furthermore the entire global aviation industries outstripped. The UK waste is outstripped. The UK waste is exported, and we think the U.K.'s recycling at full stop UK has the highest per capita recycling waste in the world. Single use plastic is incentivised over other products, but the government is seeking to champion. On the EAC we found much of the exported waste was just been dumped with no prospect of recycling.

People diligently recycling at home in the UK would be rightly appalled if they went and saw what was happening to the plastic they would put in their green bins and other places for recycling. To support our UK delegation and address this issue head-on, UK can lean on the international stage to secure globally legally binding targets to cut plastic production was at own recycling is supportive. And for binding targets to reduce global production. But hand-in-hand with that, the government needs to support positive measures necessary to make it work in practice will stop if the government is to have a clear roadmap for policies to deliver domestic circular economy plastics, it could make a binding target to reduce busting production on the ground.

This could also have clear policy interventions and stimulate demand for recycled plastics, and create the conditions for major investment in plastic sorting and reprocessing. To enter the plastic gap in the UK. Create jobs here in plastic reprocessing, and ensure the quality and to ensure that plastic is being recycled and not just been dumped. This would be a great British plastic initiative. The UK currently exporting approximately 50% of plastic waste, this will clamp down on legitimate exports being dumped overseas.

While the vast majority of plastic support the UK is reprocessing, there have been instances where low grade plastic has been dumped or burned overseas. Robust and resourced regulating can be empowered to enforce the right standards and clamp down on illegal waste exports. We must end the plastic dumping. The UK government has plummeted strong steps to improve the quantity and quality of mastic recycling. But the government needs to address fossil fuel influence in politics particularly in the international mastic treaty negotiations.

This is the only way. Needs to be sustainable long-term demand for any recycled products created the wise will carry on with the unsustainable problem of using virgin plastics and the international influence of that industry on our processes. Thank you. Talk like I caught the Liberal Democrats.

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Thank you. First I warmly

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Thank you. First I warmly congratulate my honourable friend, the member for Orkney and Shetland for securing this important debate. for securing this important debate. I thank all members this afternoon who have contributed, rarely do I who have contributed, rarely do I have the privilege to be part of the debate where there is such complete debate where there is such complete overall consensus. Although the Frontbench the Conservative party here, but I am assuming that there here, but I am assuming that there is a broad consensus here which should give the government a strong should give the government a strong hand to be a tough negotiator in the Global Plastics Treaty talks.

Global plastic production waste has doubled plastic production waste has doubled in the last 20 years was the and most of what I'm saying has already most of what I'm saying has already been said but such is the beauty of windup speeches. Over 12 million tonnes of plastic according to my honourable friend, the member for honourable friend, the member for Carshalton and Wallington. I have another statistic was that in 2023, the BBC reported there were more the BBC reported there were more than 170 trillion pieces of plastic floating in the world ocean.

This is floating in the world ocean. This is no way of treating our precious planet. And indeed it is putting species at risk of extension. The Global Plastics Treaty offers a unique opportunity for a global United Nations led treaty to hold all countries to a high common standard of plastic consumption. This treaty would create a level playing field to incentivise and support international action, forging a clear path towards a future free from plastic pollution. We Liberal Democrats have been instrumental in the campaign to finalise this treaty.

We are looking towards next month's negotiations in Geneva to hopefully reach a breakthrough. There is a great degree of consensus on this issue. Not just in the chamber. The majority of the UK public, the majority of member states, the business community, and civil society or pushing in the same direction. Over 100 countries support a legally binding global targets to cut plastic allusions to the UK must retain its level of
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Wera Hobhouse Portrait Wera Hobhouse MP (Bath, Liberal Democrat)
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1/4 of a million people also took part in the plastic account last year. An initiative run by Greenpeace, and every day mastic which counted each piece of plastic to show the scale of this crisis in the UK. Indeed we have heard from many members about how concerned the many members about how concerned the public is about this issue. Their constituents and how they take part constituents and how they take part in the clean-up actions. Greenpeace are rightly concerned with each are rightly concerned with each round of talks there are more fossil fuel lobbyists who are seeking to fuel lobbyists who are seeking to derail negotiations and prevent any limits to plastic production from being agreed.

The government should look closely at the precedent of how to prevent influences of lobbyists and in such agreements was the Framework Convention on tobacco control recognised lobbying tactics of the tobacco industry and required of the tobacco industry and required parties to act to detect these policies from commercial and other policies from commercial and other vested interests. Government across the globe needs to address fossil fuel influences in politics and put the interest of people before polluters. We must also address the issue of funding.

A sustainable treaty that is built to last for generations needs to include a generations needs to include a strong dedicated multilateral fund. That substantial financial package the treaty will impose obligations of countries particularly in the Global South that will struggle to comply with it. The reality of the climate crisis globally is that countries are going to have to find money to clean up the mess that polluters have created. The government should look for ways to place this financial burden mainly in the plastic industry that have made billions of pounds of profits from it.

I recognise of course it is important to work with industries, but it is ultimately a principle of polluter pays. But of course you need to bring industry with us as well in order to make practical and create solutions which are going to work and are not just a flop. I want to touch on one issue that has not been mentioned before, but it is a constituency issue. An issue that constituent has raised. That is, plastic pollution in chewing gum, an issue I was alerted to buy one of my constituents who is a founder of the plant based chewing gum company.

One many of us is unaware that chewing gum is a single-use plastics stop it commonly contains synthetic polymers. Products have been founded including carrier bags and car tyres. In the UK over 4 billion pieces of plastic gum are consumed annually for top the majority of which is non-biodegradable waste pollution was to this breaks down into microplastics and terminating soil, waterways, and wildlife. It is one of the U.K.'s most pervasive types of litter and costs local councils over £60 million per year in removal efforts.

I'm sure every one of you remembers an annoying moment when you pick up a piece of gum from under your shoes. Despite its similarities to other band single-use plastics like stores and cotton buds, chewing gum has evaded regulation. As of single use vapes, and the UK has a great opportunity to lead again in environmental and public health protection for I urge the government to look into this issue and I will happily provide the contact of my constituent to help with the evidence but also to support what can be done.

We are at a pivotal moment. The scale and urgency of the plastic pollution crisis demands bold coordinated global action. Treaty must not only be ambitious but also fair, with proper funding and protections against vested interests. The UK must show leadership in the upcoming talks, championing a strong new global treat that tackles plastic pollution at every stage of its life cycle, to future generations can enjoy the beautiful planet that we enjoy the beautiful planet that we
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Robbie Moore Portrait Robbie Moore MP (Keighley and Ilkley, Conservative)
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I would like to begin by remarks by as much interest in this area. My family own and operate a plastic recycling business, and although I would like to make clear the House I am not directly involved in the management of the business, I do not also earn any financial interest from it. Let me start this debate by thanking the right honourable member for Oakley in Shetland for bringing forward this really important debate which I think we have actually hugely valuable contributions from all members of the House.

The honourable member absolutely spoke about the importance of responsibility, not only for stakeholders, but wider industry and indeed, policymakers. In light of the upcoming negotiations on the international plastics treaty, it is an important time to be having this debate, before coming to the potential treaty itself, I think it is worth taking a moment to consider some of the domestic context to our national relationship the -- With plastic. The honourable member for Stafford quite rightly raised the concerns around micro-plastics, probably picked up some of the points that had been picked up and concerns raised by many members in this House.

The honourable member Honiton and Sidmouth talked about the challenges of litter and plastic waste in his constituency, but also rightly called on the government to hold China to account as part of their global discussions. By honourable friend, raised important of young people in the debate, going forward plastic production, raising the concerns and letters that have been submitted to him by various schools within his constituency. As did the honourable member for Carshalton and Wallington, the honourable member for Stratford and Bow, who is not in her place at the moment, raise the importance of banning single use vapes, the work of local businesses and organisations in her constituency, including Abba voyage, which I have been to see, and the work they'll been doing to reduce plastic waste was noted, whilst I was there.

The member form looks on and advises focus on regulation, and how to bring forward our influence on the plastic treaty for the Member for South Derbyshire rightly raised staunch objection to incineration of plastic waste and absolutely agree with that, in my constituency, we had a planning application approved for any syllabi to, approved by the council, something I have been staunchly against, and I wish I were in a local campaign. The local man before Banga talked about research, done by the University, including Christian done, and I hope minister will be looking at the research mentioned in the speech.

As a member for Edinburgh Southwest, coupled with its neighbour for Edinburgh, talked about the importance of progressing conversations to get the Global Plastics Treaty to have more Global Plastics Treaty to have more focus on it. From concerns that are raised by the strong voice of its Edinburgh representatives, and the honourable member for Leeds Central and Headingley talked about the importance of reducing virgin plastic production and a need for real focus on recycling rates. An finally, the honourable member referenced importance for groups that help drive forward change.

We know, for decades now, we have used plastic in all roles, and in ever greater amounts for, plastics have replaced many everyday items that once were made from paper, glass, or metal. Plastic may have been the way forward then, but that does not mean to say it is the way forward now for everything. I welcome the important steps taken by the previous Conservative government, plastic straws, single-use plastic bags, were all notorious for polluting our national environment, and it was therefore right that efforts were taken to ban them.

In fact, the plastic bag charge has successfully seen plastic bag usage reduced by 90%. The restrictions of single-use plastic for cutlery, cups, trays, plastic for cutlery, cups, trays, fights, -- Plates, others, and it is having an effect on the usage of residual waste. And it is residual waste that is key. We know the UK produces a huge amount of plastic waste. As much as the second highest per capita globally. But we also know that, due to strong environmental protections, very little of this waste is now handled irresponsibly.

But that, of course, also indicates that there is always a still more to be done. For comparison, 80% of plastics in ocean originate from Asia, compared to just 0.4% from Europe. Reducing residual waste must be the key pillar of any international treaty one plastic waste. The government, previous government, understood this, when it legislated for half residual waste through the Environment act, and I hope the Minister will be able to reassure us this remains the key goal of the

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government. I will give way. I thank the honourable member for

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I thank the honourable member for giving way, he is talking well about the general state of plastic in the the general state of plastic in the world. But the debate title is about the Global Plastics Treaty, I wonder whether he can confirm whether his party supports the UK being party supports the UK being signatory to that.

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signatory to that. I will come onto those points, I wanted to outline the nature of the debate that has been taking place, I think it is important to recognise think it is important to recognise the contributions being made by all members in this House. We know that reducing plastic usage is vital for two key reasons. The 30 is the impact on the environment. It is impact on the environment. It is estimated that as many as one million seabirds die a year, as result of entanglement in plastic.

In fact, the weight of plastic in In fact, the weight of plastic in the oceans at current rates of increase will outweigh all fish by 2050. Plastics also pollute our inland waterways, having a deft inland waterways, having a deft mental impact on their areas, especially when considering the especially when considering the long-term chemical effects of the composition. The second reason I believe should aim to reduce plastic waste use is the growing body of research, showing long-term exposure plastics. Particularly micro plastics.

Particularly micro plastics, as referenced by the honourable member. It, it is bad for our health. Everything from hair loss, fatigue, heart conditions, strokes, have been linked to micro plastics. What is most concerning is, whilst the health links may not yet be fully understood, we do know that micro plastics persist for centuries. Not only in environment but also in our bodies. As we use more plastic through our lives, these levels build, potentially increasing the risks. That is precisely why securing an effective global framework to reduce plastic use is key.

The resolutions passed in 2022 are an encouraging first step, and show clearly that centuries across the world recognise this challenge, and we wish to tackle it. Usually, this support is key to ensure standards are raised uniformly at the risk of plastic waste is simply offshore, significantly reduced, we simply cannot offshore our responsibility. Equally, we must be realistic about how we manage plastics, we must recognise that simply unilaterally banning or heavily restricting many types of plastic will leave us uncompetitive on the global stage.

We must work with other nations and bring those that are sceptical of this along with us. That scepticism is precisely why we must ensure that we use our ability, through our negotiations on this treaty, to take matters forward. And that those are concrete. We cannot simply have goals or aspirations. We must have verifiable targets that can be measured. And that we can hold organisations, stakeholders, to account. We should naturally then except all signatories to fulfil those obligations.

I hope the government will be able to confirm that they will then be pushing for these measures within the treaty, as they continued negotiations going forward, and ensure compliance, that they can be acted on by ourselves and other partners. We must continue to work not only on the Global Plastics Treaty, but also at home, to improve plastic waste record. We need to continue to invest in our sorting and volume capacity within the recycling sector, to ensure the amount of recyclable waste continues to go up, in terms of how much has been recycled, but we reduce that going to landfill.

Plastic pollution is not going away. Many plastics will be with us for many thousands of years, that is why it is vital that we act to stop the flow of waste come into our environment. I hope the discussions are reopened next month, in Geneva, that the government minister will be in attendance, the government will be successful in securing a robust and practical treaty, we are all happy

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to see. Thank you, Madame Deputy Speaker,

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Thank you, Madame Deputy Speaker, and it is a pleasure to respond to the report from the Select Committee, so ably introduced by the right honourable member for Orkney right honourable member for Orkney and Shetland, for every contribution across the chamber, has pointed out across the chamber, has pointed out how serious this issue is and how urgent the need for action, because plastic pollution is one of the plastic pollution is one of the biggest environmental issues we face today. Once hailed as a miracle of today.

Once hailed as a miracle of modern invention, plastic is now one of our planet's most persistent threats. Its greatest strength, durability, has become its darkest durability, has become its darkest durability, has become its darkest floor. These materials designed to last, do just that, for centuries. They do not simply disappear, a breakdown into tiny fragments, as my honourable friend from Stafford so honourable friend from Stafford so ably pointed out. These micro plastics that made our beaches, rivers, fields, and even our bodies, from the depths of the oceans, the from the depths of the oceans, the cells of creatures, plastic pollution is everywhere.

At Toulon, plastic has looted our ocean, and threatened wildlife, and is predicted to triple by 2040, compared to 2016, this is not a situation we can accept. Plastic pollution doesn't respect boundaries, we urgently need to agree on a treaty to enable action to address this. I thank the right honourable member for Orkney and Shetland and his committee, that there is an inquiry into the treaty, and the recommendations for the forthcoming negotiations on an international treaty, to end plastic pollution.

It is a very timely input, I read it with interest, as we finalise our preparations for negotiations. I look forward to responding to that more fully in due course, but the committee can be cured this government is taking every step to ensure an ambitious and effective Global Plastics Treaty. This will both be a tool for moving towards an economy, and to showcase some of the domestic action the UK has taken. The circular economy is key to delivering our governance Plan for Change.

To grow the economy, increased environmental resilience, and improve the lives of hard-working people around the country. That is why our circular working economy task force has brought people together across industry, academia and civil society to develop a circular economy strategy for England, this will include a roadmap on chemicals and plastics. It will deliver growth and fundamentally shift our relationship with the goods we use every day, ending our throwaway society and stopping the avalanche of rubbish, filling up our high streets, A circular economy is a way to grow our economy, make it more resilient, and improve lives in every part of the United Kingdom and protect our environment for generations to come.

Domestic, the government is already working with a devolved government, for the slate on the Banff wet wipes, content plastic, across the UK for such from 1 June this year, the sale and supply of single-use vapes was banned across the UK. The deposit and return scheme for single use metal drinks containers across Northern Ireland and Scotland will launch in October 27, which will drive our efforts to later filling up our street and oceans, and I'm grateful to my honourable friend, for it herself, for the story in Scotland.

-- To stop later filling up our street. It came into effect 1 January this year, and will deal with the full packaging waste come away from taxpayers, and package producers themselves. I was pleased to hear the comments on my noble friend, about great successes of the people in Wales, the NATO government, working with people in Wales, particularly around

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recycling. I certainly will. I thank the honourable member for giving way for the EPR scheme is obviously welcome on the benches, obviously welcome on the benches, and with the intention of it, but I do seem to be some unintended effects of it as well, not only impacts on producers but small businesses, hospitality businesses businesses, hospitality businesses in particular, they raised concerns, will you carry on listening and adjust the scheme so it works for

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them as well? I thank the honourable number for his point. Of course, absolutely, we his point. Of course, absolutely, we are always working in collaboration are always working in collaboration and will do everything we can, to ensure an important principle that has been established and determined has been established and determined to make sure it is successful. Next month, the resumed fifth session of the Intergovernmental Negotiating Committee, we will have a once-in- a-lifetime opportunity to create an ambitious and effective international agreement, to end plastic pollution.

We want a treaty that tackles the full life-cycle of that tackles the full life-cycle of plastics and promotes a circular economy. The UK has been a key advocate for an effective treaty advocate for an effective treaty throughout. And as a founding member of the High Ambition Coalition to end plastic pollution. A coalition nearly 70 countries from across all nearly 70 countries from across all regions of the world. At INC5, the UK joined with other countries to make clear the support for the make clear the support for the treaty, recently, the UN Ocean Conference in Nice, we joined nearly 100 countries in signing the wake-up call for an ambitious national treaty to end plastic pollution.

These demos trace the commitments to These demos trace the commitments to reach an agreement in August, demonstrates away for support for the ambitious treaty and I am proud of the leadership role UK has taken in negotiations. We continue to take significant action to drive ambition, then a straight

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leadership. He is right to highlight the leading role the UK has played on this, both the current, government, and the previous two, but the and the previous two, but the progress was the treaty came to a halt, because Russia, Iran and Saudi halt, because Russia, Iran and Saudi Arabia basically impose a time where the treaty could be agreed. What discussions are taking place behind discussions are taking place behind the scenes to ensure countries like those three adverts are not going to

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those three adverts are not going to I can assure him negotiations and

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I can assure him negotiations and discussions are going on to get a good outcome. As well as leading good outcome. As well as leading early work to develop the criteria of the problematic plastic products, of the problematic plastic products, since the second negotiation session the UK is also co-leading work with the UK is also co-leading work with Chile to discuss product design and co-leading work with Panama on releases and leakages of plastic by ministerial -- I will happily give way.



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way. I'm sure he is away the ambassador for Ecuador is also chairman for the committee on plastics. Can I ask is he working with his Excellency Ambassador? Because he's in London, doing incredible work in this area. I hope our government is cooperating with him and also his work in looking forward to the day Ecuador can join

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the CPTPP. I'm grateful for the intervention, I can assure the intervention, I can assure the honourable gentleman we are working with all interested parties to make sure we make progress on this. My sure we make progress on this. My ministerial colleague the honourable member for Kingston upon Hull West has cohosted a ministerial event at has cohosted a ministerial event at the UN ocean conference that brings together Ministers from a range of countries representing all regions and ambition levels, to discuss the most challenging issues.

As we look most challenging issues. As we look forward to August it's clear our forward to August it's clear our views on key issues such as phasing out plastic product, how we approach the reduction of plastic and on the reduction of plastic and on financing the treaty. However it is our sense that the majority of our sense that the majority of countries want an agreement at INC 5.2. I has been substantial discussion on how the treaty discussion on how the treaty addresses plastic production.

There are many parties that believe are many parties that believe plastic production is outside the scope of the agreement, however the UK has been clear treaty should UK has been clear treaty should address for lifestyle -- life scale of plastic including production. We of plastic including production. We continue to work on that basis and to ensure the treaty sends a signal to spur the market to recycle plastic and collect the data we need to make sure the treaty is working. The provisional problematic plastic products will be one of the core treaty provisions.

The UK has worked with Brazil to carry out technical work to support this provision. The UK also has supported the call from UK also has supported the call from 95 countries in Busan for a clear legally binding obligation to phase out the most harmful plastic products and chemicals of concern in plastics. Good progress was made at plastics. Good progress was made at INC five on text that provides basis for further discussions. Key here will be striking the right balance between national measures and harmonised global approaches, ensuring measures are science-based.

We are also working with Chile to promote effective provision on the design of plastic products to keep them in use for longer and make them easier to recycle. We recognise the importance of mobilising support for countries most in need to implement the agreement, this is an essential element for an effective treaty. UK supports the use of the global environment facility to support the implement determination of the treaty. That would involve -- avoid further fragmentation of the environmental financial architecture, with funding for climate and nature.

As we have heard, plastic pollution is a broad issue with a huge variety of actors across the plastic value chain. To mobilise resources needed at scale we need to draw on an equally broad range of funding resources, public and private, domestic and international. The UK is the largest donor contributing some £20.5 million to the global plastic action partnership, which brings together governments, businesses and civil society to tackle plastic pollution and increase investment in the circular economy in ODA eligible countries.

To end plastic pollution we need all actors in the plastics value chain to act. We need to bring everyone along with us. This includes the marginalised, undervalued and unrecognised waste pickers, most of whom are women. They handle more than half the world's plastic waste for recycling, so it's really important their voices are heard. It's essential the treaty response to emerging evidence, the treaty can't operate effectively if it has a de facto veto by one member. So we need effective decision-making processes including the possibility of voting on decisions and annexes once attempts at consensus has been
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Daniel Zeichner Portrait Daniel Zeichner MP, The Minister of State, Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Cambridge, Labour)
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exhausted. One thing is clear, dressing plastic pollution requires dressing plastic pollution requires a joint effort between academia a joint effort between academia government and plastics of site -- civil society. We will run the UK treaty dialogues ahead of each round of negotiations. The dialogue of negotiations. The dialogue included actors at all stages of the plastics value chain including environmental NGOs. These dialogues environmental NGOs. These dialogues have helped us understand diverse views on the treaty and informed our views on the treaty and informed our approach to negotiations.

In June my ministerial colleague hosted a business roundtable to discuss how business roundtable to discuss how the private sector could support an ambitious plastic treaty. This is the second plastic treaty roundtable and brought together businesses from the plastics value chain. They are attended by the INC chair. 20 leading businesses have now signed a statement calling for an effective treaty, and for nonprivate sector treaty, and for nonprivate sector organisations. The government is clear any treaty must be informed by science, I noted the comments made science, I noted the comments made by my honourable friend the member for Stratford and Bow.

In this regard we are deeply concerned to regard we are deeply concerned to hear of threats faced by scientists, that the issue raised by a number of contributors. This is unacceptable, we remain steadfast in our commitment to the multilateral system and to an open and transparent and inclusive process. This has been a timely debate as we approach finally go she Asians in Geneva. While there are many challenges to overcome there's a vast amount of work underway to find solutions to the many issues remaining.

I heard the strong calls from my honourable friends from South Derbyshire and my former colleague and friend from Leeds Central, but I am confident we can secure an effective and robust treaty, this is what the team will push for in Geneva. I thank the right honourable member for Orkney

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for securing this debate. Can I thank everybody who has taken part in this debate, I think
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Alistair Carmichael Portrait Rt Hon Alistair Carmichael MP (Orkney and Shetland, Liberal Democrat)
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taken part in this debate, I think it's been a remarkable exercise this afternoon stop and enormously valuable. Every contribution has been truly excellent. We have heard from members representing seats in Scotland, Wales and England. We've not had anybody from Northern Ireland, but I think we should place on record I have seen the honourable member for Stratford has been in Westminster this afternoon. -- Westminster. We'll get a bit tired and scratchy, we've had remarkable consensus and good nature.

In closing the debate, I actually want to address myself not just to the people in the chamber but to those who might be watching from outside. The evidence session we had when the Select Committee met last week wasn't an easy one to pull together, especially when it came to bringing corporate interests in. Coca-Cola turned up, to their credit they had a decent story to tell. Ineos turned up, they might have had a good story to tell not, they couldn't remember.

The people we really wanted to get was Unilever, apparently they had gone to India for the day so they couldn't appear before the Select Committee. We shall return to this, they can run but they can't hide. What I want to see is that we have seen in the past not just the national but the corporate influences who have stood in the way of progress. I think if these corporate interests are watching proceedings today they should hear a very loud and clear message that we are watching them and if they again stand in the way of making progress on something that matters to this House, and to the people that send us here, then we will see them and there will be a commercial price to be paid for them by standing in the

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way of progress. The question is as on the order

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The question is as on the order paper. As many as are of that opinion, say, "Aye", of the opinion, say, "Aye", of the contrary, "No". The ayes have it. I will give third chamber a few moments to clear before we continue moments to clear before we continue with proceedings. The question is this house to now adjourn, Danny Kruger.

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Thank you very much. It is an honour to stand here in this empty chamber to speak about the original
15:56
Danny Kruger Portrait Danny Kruger MP (East Wiltshire, Conservative)
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chamber to speak about the original purpose of this space, which was a chapel in the Church of England. The old chamber of the House of Commons on which this space is modelled, after the great Fire of 1834, was St Stephens Chapel formerly a royal charge. Given by the heirs of Henry VIII to Parliament, to serve as its debating chamber. Madame Deputy Speaker, your chair stands on the altar steps, the table where the Dispatch Box is whether lecterns stood.

I mention this because the link between this place and the Church of England isn't merely ceremonial. The prayers we say here at the start of everyday are not just a nod to tradition, our democracy is founded on Christian faith. Indeed, this Parliament remains the law giving power of the Church of England. We in this place have the responsibility to approve or disapprove the doctrine and the rules of the church. That is as it should be, because the Church of England is not some private club, just another eccentric denomination.

The church is the chaplain to the nation. And through the parish system, in which every square inch of England has its local church and local priest, we are all members. We all belong, even if you never step foot in your church from one year to the next, even if you don't believe in its teachings, it is your church and you are its member. So when I speak of the Church of England today I am not speaking of internal politics of the Anglican sector, I speak of the common creed of our country.

The official religion of the English and British nation. And the institution with which, older than the monarchy a much older than Parliament, is the institution that made this country. It's no surprise that both the church and the country itself are in a bad way. Divided internally, confused, badly led. The church is riven by deep disputes over doctrine and covenants, and literally leaderless with even the process of choosing the next Archbishop of Canterbury confused and contented. The country reflects this, unclear in its doctrines and governance, profoundly precarious, chronically exposed to threats from without and within.

At risk economically, socially, culturally. And I would say morally. Last month in the space of three days in one infamous week this House authorised the killing of unborn children, nine-month-old babies, and it passed a bill to allow the killing of the elderly and disabled. I describe those laws in these stark terms not to provoke further controversy, but because those are the facts. We gave our consent to the greatest crime, the killing of the week, the most defenceless human beings. It was a great sin.

And if I standing here have any power to repent on behalf of this House I hereby repent on what we did. But in reaction to these votes and all around us in reaction to the state of the country in the world something else is happening, there is a great hunger in society for a better way of living. I want to use this opportunity to explain that better way is, and why we here in England have the means to follow it. The Jewish and Christian God is a God of nations.

He is interested in people as individuals but also as groups, communities, not only of kinship so that as well but of common worship with a common God. This nation, England from which the UK group, uniquely among the nations of the world was founded, created consciously on the basis of the Bible and the story of the Hebrew people. In that sense, England is the oldest Christian country and the prototype of nations across the West. The story of England is the story of Christianity, operating on a people.

To make the institutions and the culture which have been uniquely stable, uniquely successful. The Western model was forged and refined in England over a thousand years, from the ninth to the 19th centuries. So what is that model? It is simply this. That power should arrange itself for all the people under it, specifically for the poorest entry -- and weakest. That the law is there to protect ordinary people from the abuse of power, but everyone has equal dignity and freedom, crucially the freedom of conscience and freedom of belief, making space for other religions under the Christian shield.

A secular space, itself a Christian concept meaningful only in a Christian world. These are ideas that only make sense if you accept we have some intrinsic value given to us not of our own making Through all these long years, from the time of Alfred, through to Victoria, that country worshippers Christian God, then a 20th-century, another idea arose. That it is possible for a company to be neutral about God, that the public space, the public square, was empty of any metaphysics, that the roots of freedom was through the desert of materialism, no hell below us, above us only sky.

That idea was wrong and the horrors of the 20th-century attest to that. Not least in the West where we escaped totalitarianism, but we surveyed our own catastrophes of social breakdown, injustice, loneliness and emptiness on a chronic scale. And now, new threats, ugly and aggressive, are rising, because we have found in the absence of the Christian God, we do not have pluralism and tolerance one being nice to each other in a godless world. Because all politics is religious, and in abandoning one religion, or simply create a space for others to move into.

Happy to give way.

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My honourable friend is making a very moving and powerful speech. And very moving and powerful speech. And I would say to him our head of state, who is also the head of the state, who is also the head of the Church of England, represents the rights of all peoples who live in a rights of all peoples who live in a free society, and to worship freely, and it is because our head of state is also head of our established church, the protections of all religions and denominations are religions and denominations are there within our constitution.

And the cross is on the top of the crown the cross is on the top of the crown that he wears. Which demonstrates the Christian faith is the basis constitution, our customers, our heritage, our British way of life,

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would he agree with that? My honourable friend will be surprised to hear I do agree with surprised to hear I do agree with him, he makes this point very well him, he makes this point very well and I acknowledge it. It is our constitution and under the monarchy reactor system of FinOps developed political freedom in the world, and political freedom in the world, and established church, we have freedom conscience, and I believe it is because the course is at the centre, the cross is above your Chair too, Madame Deputy Speaker.

In abandoning one religion, we simply create space for others to move into, as dominant face, there are two religions moving into the space to Christianity has been objected from, one is Islam. And I find myself in agreement on moral and social matters of Muslim colleagues here in parliament, but as I have been saying, this is a Christian country, if it is a country at all, and I cannot be indifferent about the extent of the growth of Islam here in recent decades.

But it is the other religion that worries me even more. At this other religion is a hybrid of old and new ideas. It does not have a proper name and I don't think what woke does justice to its seriousness. It is accommodation of Christian heresies, cultural modernism, almost up to a deeply mistaken, deeply dangerous ideology power, hostile to the essential object of our affections and our loyalties, which were families, communities and nations, dismissively, most passionately, it is hostile to Christianity as the wellspring of the West.

This religion, unlike Islam, must simply be destroyed, at least as a public doctrine. To be banished from public life, schools and universities, businesses and public services, needs to be sent back to the fringes of eccentricity, like the modern Druids who invest in Stonehenge in my constituency, with a theology that is mad but harmless, because its followers are so few, and no one takes them seriously. Now, we can no longer attend, as they did in attractive century, that we can be neutral or indifferent about God, that the public square was a godless desert, the fact is, the strongholds are back and we have to choose which to worship, and I suggest we worship the God who came in the week as form, Jesus Christ.

This God is HLS God, it is him or nothing at to own our Christian story or repudiated. Not to own it is to repudiate it, and to repudiate Christianity, is not only to sever ourselves from our past but cut off the source of all things we value now and need in the future. Freedom, tolerance, individual dignity and human rights, without a Christian God's and his teachings, there is non-existent aspirations, but to own our story, we can have these things, makes them real, real freedom, tolerance and dignity, culture of love, humanity, because we are in the age of the machine.

And great choice conferences, whether to make machines in the image of fallen man, bent on exploitation and domination, with mankind in its sights, automating what they properly are, servants of mankind, helping us make a better world. Madame Deputy a better world. Madame Deputy Speaker, to conclude, a wind is blowing, storm is coming, and when it hits, we're going to let any powerhouse is built on rock or sand. But we have been here before. The 11th and 16th centuries, the event because of the 19th-century, all brought this country back from the edge, from idolatry, error, or plain indifference.

Through all the glitter glass social crises that difference in Christianity brought about, and restoring the computer itself. The new restoration is needed now. For a revival of the faith, a recovery of Christian politics, re-founding of this nation on the teaching that Alfred made the basis of the common law, although centuries ago, this is a mission for the church, under its next leader, whoever that is, the submission for this place, this old chapel which became the Welshman of Western democracy and for us, it's members.

And it is a mission for our whole country, the route to a prosperous modernity, founded on respect for human dignity, responsibility for a created world as the worship of God. Thank you.

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Minister. Thank you, Madame Deputy Speaker. Abbott to thank the honourable member for East Wiltshire. In securing this important debate on securing this important debate on the future of the Church of England. I am grateful for the opportunity to respond on behalf of the government.
16:08
Jim McMahon Portrait Jim McMahon MP, Minister of State (Housing, Communities and Local Government) (Oldham West, Chadderton and Royton, Labour )
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respond on behalf of the government. The honourable member has often spoken very powerfully about the importance of faith, its role in public life, the benefit it brings. And today, he has spoken eloquently on the positive role Christianity plays in wider society. A sentiment I believe is shared across the House. Anyone involved in local life know how essential Christian places of worship are and the people they support. They run our schools, toddler groups, the support food banks, they reach out to those facing homelessness and they offer comfort and companionship to those who are isolated, who are grieving, struggling to cope.

The truth is simple. Without them, much of our country wouldn't function, it is not just appreciated, it is indispensable. The Christian faith has played a central role in public life and continue to do so. The honourable member is one number of examples of good public servant, motivated by their Christian faith. And in the cause of the common good. Our society is enriched by those contributions. It is equally enriched by people of a wide range of backgrounds, heritage, and indeed, faiths and beliefs, right across this House.

I see members of the Protestant, Catholic, like myself, Jewish faith, Muslim and seat communities, not those of other faiths, all who are motivated towards the betterment of the people we serve. Madame Debbie speaker, the benefit of the House, I will briefly outline the solution arrangements between the established church, Parliament and the executive. These arrangements have deep roots and have evolved over many centuries. Much of our constitution is based on a combination of common laws, statutes, conventions and principles. As the established church, the Church of England has historically been subject to parliamentary legislation.

Since the 1990 act however, much of its governance has been dedicated to general sin order. While the Synod manages its internal affairs, it measures still require polymers approval and consent. As honourable members will know, the spiritual bishops of the church sitting House of Lords by right, and they government believe they offer a unique and valued and spiritual perspective. There are still many ways the church and Parliament are closely connected. The government reflects on a great example, of the Lords Spiritual act 2017, skilfully steered through the House, last year, by my colleague, the honourable member.

This act requested by the Church of England extends for more than five years the arrangement allowing female bishops to sit in the House of Lords as Lords Spirituals. In fact, we recently enabled the Right Reverend as the new Bishop of Coventry to as the new Bishop of Coventry to take place in the other place. The church also has a presence in this House, as the second church dates commissioner, and I'm pleased the honourable member for Battersea has done so much work in this regard.

In this House. She serves as a vital link between Parliament and the church. Ensuring the Church Commissioners, remain accountable to that house. The executive, particularly the Prime Minister and Lord Chancellor, play a key role in appointing senior clergy, while bishops are formally appointed by the sovereign, this is done one Prime Minister's advice, following recommendations from the Crown nominations commission. The sovereign, a supreme Governor of the Church of England, remains central to these arrangements. In highlighting some of the ways a church parliament and executive are intertwined.

I hope this gives assurance of the honourable member that when it comes to matters of importance of the Church of England and the Christian faith more generally, Parliament and the executive is by no means washing its hands. The church is streamlining its national governance, with plans approved earlier this week. These proposals will soon come before Parliament. This marks another step in the process in 2020, to better support the church mission and its work. Regarding the church's future, its day-to-day operations are, of course, not a matter for government, however, the government moves forward with the church continuing to evolve, to meet the challenges of

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our time, and to play in active role in the debate on the supported issues we face as a nation. Of course. My honourable friend refer to the

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My honourable friend refer to the

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My honourable friend refer to the importance of a noble parish. Across England, the parish is essential to everything, the church, local vicar, this is part of our community in this is part of our community in fact, we have been lucky in my constituency, to have the church Saint Edward the confessor, and we have a new vicar, the Reverand have a new vicar, the Reverand Jordan Palmer, who has just joined our church in Romford. Will he agree our church in Romford. Will he agree with me that the parish is vital? It is not just about the church community, the members of the community, the members of the church, it has a wider responsibility, to all people of all religions, no religion, just Church religions, no religion, just Church of England members.

So, the Church of England cherish the importance of

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of England cherish the importance of the parish so all our communities and constituencies we represent. I believe that very strongly actually. Even for members who are actually. Even for members who are not church attenders, they will take not church attenders, they will take part in civic life at a local level that is so closely linked to their parish church was not passing about Remembrance Sunday and the role the parish churches play in those reflections. I think about our role on mayoral Sunday, where the mayor will be the churchwarden in the parish church, Rio, is celebrated in our town as well.

Regardless of individual faiths and beliefs, I think it is accepted, and in fact, celebrated that parish churches are a significant part of local identity, and a place for all people to come together. And of course, I welcome his new church leader on that basis. And I think that reflects, in a sense, the value we place a Parliament on the importance, which is why bringing this debate today was so important and I thank the Member for doing

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that and I hope you appreciate the response on behalf of the government. The question is this how to do

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The question is this how to do now adjourn. -- this House do now adjourn. As many as are of that opinion, say, "Aye". The ayes have
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