Global Britain
Conor Burns Excerpts(3 years, 3 months ago)
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Emily Thornberry (Islington South and Finsbury) (Lab)
Let me thank the Secretary of State for holding this debate, albeit in the very strange circumstances we find ourselves in today. I said many months ago, when I came into this role, how important it was that we should have an open debate in Parliament and with the public about the challenges and opportunities that we will face after Brexit as an independent trading nation. Now, as 2020 is finally skulking away, those challenges and opportunities are upon us, and today’s debate is, if anything, long overdue, but no less welcome for that.
However, I think it would be remiss of me, as I think it was remiss of the Secretary of State, not to start by acknowledging the severe and rising problems affecting businesses engaged in trade across the channel and the Irish sea today. Trade that flowed freely just a few weeks ago is now grinding to a halt because of the barriers and bureaucracy that the realities of Brexit require. Let me be clear: those problems are always to some extent inevitable—they could only have been mitigated, not avoided entirely, by the adoption of a different approach to our deal with the EU—but three things that were not inevitable, and indeed were totally avoidable, are the lack of time that businesses had to prepare, the lack of support that they have been given to prepare and the lack of help available to them now. I recognise that not all of that is down to the Department for International Trade, but I do have three questions that I hope the Minister of State will be able to address later.
First, I asked the Secretary of State seven weeks ago if she would establish a dedicated helpline for companies facing problems with their exports after 1 January, and I was told in response that the Department already had a dedicated helpline for trade-related queries, which is the one it shares with the Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy. That is all very welcome, except that if any businesses had called that number this weekend to ask for help with their problems at Dover or Holyhead, the automated response would have told them that the office was closed and that they should ring back at 9 o’clock on Monday. I hate to break this to DIT Ministers, but the import-export trade does not operate on office hours. That is why round-the-clock support was needed, especially during the period of transition, adaptation and confusion. I could see the clear need for that seven weeks ago; it is extraordinary that the Government still cannot see it now.
That lack of foresight could be related to my second question, which falls squarely on the shoulders of the Secretary of State. Given all the problems that were inevitable on 1 January and the consultation and preparation that were required to mitigate those problems, does she regret her decision last July, which I warned her against at the time, to scrap the advisory groups her predecessor set up to deal with customs issues and continuity of trade post Brexit? Does she also regret her inexplicable decision to remove from the advisory group on transport issues the representatives of the Freight Transport Association, the Road Haulage Association and the British Ports Association? At exactly the time she should have been listening to the experts, she was shutting them out of the room.
Thirdly, and finally, on the current issues affecting EU trade, will the Minister of State tell us at the end of the debate who in the Government is now in charge of that brief? Is it still the Minister for the Cabinet Office, his colleague the Secretary of State, the new Secretary of State for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy, or the Chancellor, given his responsibility for Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs? Looking at the chaos our exporters are facing today. I think we can all agree that someone in government has to get a grip and it would help if we all knew who is supposed to be doing the gripping.
Speaking of getting a grip, I come to the flurry of continuity agreements secured by the Secretary of State in December. Welcome though they were, there is something strange about the process followed for those agreements in the past year. Whenever I asked why no progress was being made, why the agreements were taking so long and why no deals were signed in the first nine months of the year, I was repeatedly told that they were very difficult and detailed negotiations which we could not expect to be done quickly. But when we look at the final text that emerged in December of one agreement after another, we see that they are clause for clause, word for word, identical to the EU treaties that went before them, apart from the words “European Union” being replaced with “United Kingdom”. The question is, therefore, exactly what were they discussing all that time?
Conor Burns (Bournemouth West) (Con)
The right hon. Lady will remember from our discussions about this that they were continuity agreements, and although, understandably, many of the partners with which we were seeking agreements had the ambition to do more at that time, we were seeking continuity. We explained to them that we would do more in due course, but we needed continuity to protect the terms of trade as we left the European Union. As for why it took so long, many of our partners did not think that we were actually going to leave and realised only late in the day that they needed to sign the agreements with us to protect our mutual trading arrangements.
Emily Thornberry
I hear what the right hon. Gentleman says, but it looks to me a bit like two people meeting to play chess and the two of them sitting there looking at the board, not moving the pieces, and eventually deciding to shake hands and declare a draw. The Secretary of State might say that that is what continuity agreements are and the Government just kept things as they were, but if that is her argument I do not understand why the deals were left until the last minute and why a number were not done at all. Most fundamentally, what is the point of being an independent trading nation, what is the point of choosing to negotiate our own trade agreements, if we are happy to just replicate every deal that was done years ago by the European Commission, rather than include any new provisions of our own?
Conor Burns (Bournemouth West) (Con)
To anyone in this House or beyond this House who thinks that global Britain is somehow an aspiration, not a reality, I would commend to them the excellent report by Robin Niblett of Chatham House entitled “Global Britain, Global Broker” where he points out that the United Kingdom already has a seat at all the key multinational organisations—the IMF, the G7 and the G20—and is a permanent veto-owning member of the UN Security Council, and that is before we even look at the Commonwealth or NATO. We are fourth-equal place with Germany and Japan in the number of full-time embassies and high commissions, and sixth in terms of defence spending.
I think we have an obligation to define what global Britain means. I would say, before I incur the wrath of my friends on the Northern Ireland Benches and the noble Baroness Hoey, that global Britain also includes Northern Ireland—it is the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Of course, it goes to much more than trade—it is also about foreign policy, security, intelligence, development and defence, which are all part of the complex infrastructure that represents the UK overseas. The challenge is for us to distil that into a coherent offer that the world will understand.
I have not spoken on the subject of trade since I left the Treasury Bench. I could say that I resigned or I could say that I did a job swap with my right hon. Friend the Minister for Trade Policy. As I went around the world as Minister of State for trade, I was struck by the interest there was in the United Kingdom and what Brexit meant in terms of our ability to re-engage. People were interested in green technology, fintech, the City of London, financial services regulation, and what the UK could do in terms of infrastructure. When I was in Vietnam, Morocco, Algeria, Brazil, Chile and even the United States, there was huge interest. One could almost say that if global Britain were a Tinder profile, we would crash with the numbers seeking to swipe right. I beg the indulgence of the House briefly to place on record my thanks to those who worked with me at the Department for International Trade in my private office: my senior private secretary, Marcus; and St John, Alessandro and Emily. They were a delight to work with; I am not sure they would always say the same about me.
We have talked about values; trade delivers prosperity, jobs and the emergence of a middle class in poorer countries, and it is the emergence of a middle class that leads to the demand and drive for rights such as female emancipation, the education of girls, LGBT rights, freedom of speech and the rule of law—as distinct, of course, from rule by lawyers. We saw the same thing ourselves in the industrial revolution. As we look at doing joint economic and trade committees, trade agreements and all the rest, we should never forget that, fundamentally, this is about prosperity and dignity for individuals around the world. That aspect of what we call global Britain is not just economic or even political but is, in the most real of senses, a moral mission.
Trade Deals and Fair Trade
Conor Burns Excerpts(4 years, 1 month ago)
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The Minister of State, Department for International Trade (Conor Burns)
It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Stringer, for my first speech as a Minister in Westminster Hall. I congratulate the hon. Member for Swansea West (Geraint Davies) on securing the debate, and other hon. Members not only on their contributions but on their ingenuity in using this occasion at the end of Fairtrade fortnight to widen the debate into one about our future free trade agreements around the world, in particular with the United States. I also congratulate the hon. Gentleman on having been such a doughty advocate for the cause of fair trade over the years—a position that the Government share.
The Department for International Trade works very closely with the Fairtrade Foundation; indeed, the foundation serves on the strategic trade advisory group—the STAG—which I chair as the Minister responsible for trade policy. The global fair trade system reaches more than 1.5 million farmers and workers in more than 73 countries, many of which have historical ties to the UK, principally through the Commonwealth. The UK market for Fairtrade certified goods, which is underpinned by fair trade standards, minimum prices and direct payment of premiums to producers, has grown into one of the world’s largest. The Fairtrade mark continues to be trusted highly by the UK consumer, with more than 80% of the public saying they trust it.
Working towards a living income in domestic and global value chains is one of the keys to driving poverty reduction and economic development, and fair trade plays a crucial role in that. It also provides a means to create wealth, jobs and prosperity in local communities, in turn driving a country’s development and allowing it to grow into a trading partner of the future.
I will give some examples of how the Government, across various Departments, support free and fair trade. Between 2010 and 2016, the Department for International Development provided £20 million to Fairtrade International to help it to have a greater impact through its work and to make the global fair trade system stronger. DFID has also supported fair trade by investing more than £30 million in the responsible, accountable and transparent enterprise programme. That programme has helped to fund Shift, which works to improve companies’ human rights reporting through capacity building in business and human rights, and a new reporting database. It has also piloted and promoted Fairsource, a suite of supply chain mapping tools for use by companies to improve the sourcing of agricultural commodities such as flowers and cocoa, which was referred to by the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon). Fairsource dashboards are now available for more than 410 businesses and have been used by household names such as Ben & Jerry’s, Marks & Spencer and Starbucks.
Achieving the UN sustainable development goals by 2030 means achieving inclusive economic growth and decent jobs. The Government are committed to supporting that to spread opportunity ever more widely. We have the trade and investment advocacy fund to build developing countries’ capacity to participate in trade negotiations and fully engage at the World Trade Organisation. We have the SheTrades Commonwealth programme to enhance the competitiveness of women entrepreneurs in Commonwealth countries by connecting them to international markets. We have the Commonwealth Standards Network to increase awareness and the use of international standards across the Commonwealth in order to boost trade.
Geraint Davies
The Minister mentioned the good work of DFID in promoting fairness. Will he confirm, or press the Government to ensure, that DFID’s work continues and that it is integral to trade negotiations? There is some concern that the Department for International Trade is working in isolation and in the interests of investors, while DFID may be thinking about fair trade. It is important to hardwire the interests of fair trade into future trade arrangements.
Conor Burns
I agree with the hon. Gentleman. I know that my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister, when he served as Foreign and Commonwealth Secretary —I was his Parliamentary Private Secretary at the time—was frustrated to a degree by the disconnect that sometimes existed between DFID and the Foreign Office in pursuing Britain’s overall development and foreign policy objectives. It absolutely makes sense that we should try to co-ordinate our activity across all the international Departments of Government to get maximum influence for the United Kingdom and, most importantly, the most positive outcomes. One of the key drivers that motivates us in the Department for International Trade is the opportunity of trade with some of the poorest countries in the world to increase the opportunity for wider prosperity there. That will be at the heart of trade policy as we develop future free trade agreements.
We give £15 million to support the implementation of the trade facilitation agreement programme, which helps developing countries to reduce inefficient border processes, excessive red tape and administrative bottlenecks, which are hindrances to effective trade. The UK is the largest donor to the WTO’s enhanced integrated framework, providing technical and financial support to build trade capacity in 51 of the poorest countries in the world and to increase agricultural productivity for both local consumption and export. Through our support for the Impact Management Project, more than 2,000 organisations are harmonising a global approach to managing impact, including robust global standards on measurement and reporting. We are also examining the potential for fair trade standards to encourage businesses to be more responsible and reach vulnerable people in their supply chains.
Let me turn to a point raised by the hon. Member for Strangford—who is currently being interfered with by my hon. Friend the Member for Beckenham (Bob Stewart), who has just arrived in his coat. The hon. Gentleman mentioned the terrible conditions in which some people work in some of the poorest parts of the world. We are absolutely clear that those people and providing them with opportunities are at the heart of our trade policy. That means engaging across the whole supply chain, working in partnership with businesses, NGOs, producers, investors and consumers to be more responsible and reaching vulnerable people to ensure safe and decent opportunities for all.
Now that we have left the EU, we have a superb opportunity to advance the agenda further. It will enable us to build a fully integrated training and development package, encompassing trade preferences for developing countries alongside our existing aid spending. We know that trade is a key driver of economic growth, helping to raise incomes, create jobs and lift people out of poverty. That is why the Government are working to place development and global prosperity at the heart of UK trade policy.
Free and fair trade has been a great liberator for the world’s poor. Between 1990 and 2015, the number of people living in extreme poverty globally fell by more than 1 billion, but as the hon. Member for Strangford indicated, there is still so much to do. I say to the shadow Minister, the hon. Member for Sefton Central (Bill Esterson), that fair trade also means free trade. Let me tell him and colleagues that by free trade we mean supporting the international rules-based global trading order to ensure that trade works in the interests of all countries, large and small. As an independent trading nation, the United Kingdom will prioritise fair trade and, in particular, trade that helps developing countries to lift themselves out of poverty. That starts with working to ensure continuity in our trade agreements with those developing countries.
Following the transition period, the UK will put in place its own trade preference scheme granting duty-free, quota-free access to 48 least developed countries and tariff reductions to other developing nations. Far from rowing back, as was suggested, we intend to use our new independence to go forward. I contend that while DFID is the Department spending 0.7% of gross national income on development, the Department for International Trade is also, in a very real and profound sense, a Department for development by providing opportunities for creation of wealth and prosperity through trade.
We have signed four development-focused economic partnership agreements with the Southern African Customs Union, and Mozambique and other specific eastern and south African states. We continue to work with our partners on arrangements for the remaining countries covered by EU economic partnership agreements, including Cameroon, Côte d’Ivoire, Ghana and Madagascar. As was alluded to by the hon. Member for Halifax (Holly Lynch), we are absolutely determined to get those over the line. In fact, only last week I met representatives from some of those countries to discuss how we could get those agreements rolled over by the end of the year. We are also using our influence in organisations such as the WTO.
Geraint Davies
The Minister will know that the history of investor-state dispute mechanisms is basically about protecting investors who invested in countries without established systems of law and protection for investors. These days, we need a system in which people can invest in the knowledge that the host nation will also protect its environment and workers’ rights. Will he endeavour to strike deals that ensure that those social and environmental rights will be protected alongside investors’ rights, with investors’ rights not trumping those rights and attempts in host countries to protect those vital interests?
Conor Burns
We will first roll over our existing trade agreements, but we will then want to go further on many of them. We will want to ensure that the trade agreements we strike offer the opportunity to raise standards and consumer and employee protections. We do not see trade agreements as a race to the bottom. I will say a bit more about that in a moment, but I am also conscious of your stricture, Mr Stringer, to leave a little time at the end.
I will respond directly to more of the points made by colleagues. We heard quite a bit from the hon. Member for Swansea West about the national health service, medicine pricing and privatisation. I do not know how much more explicit the Government need to be in our resolve—those things are categorically not on the table. In fact, in the US negotiating bundle, we put that in black and white. Those things are not on the table. My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State has been clear that were the United States to expect or demand things of us that we did not think were acceptable, we would walk away. I understand the politics of it—it is a very useful message—but it is categorically not correct.
My hon. Friend the Member for Henley (John Howell) does a great job as the Prime Minister’s trade envoy to Nigeria, which I hope to visit in the next couple of weeks—it depends on the virus. I hope to have a chat with him before we go. He made some excellent points. He talked about modern slavery, and one of the greatest achievements of my right hon. Friend the Member for Maidenhead (Mrs May) is the Modern Slavery Act 2015. I had the privilege to serve on its Bill Committee.
I referred to some of the points made by the hon. Member for Strangford. I will not get into the debate about whether milk or dark chocolate is best, particularly since we are in Lent and I have given it up. I congratulate the hon. Member for Stockport (Navendu Mishra) on his first speech in this Chamber.
To the hon. Member for Dundee East (Stewart Hosie), I point out that my Department does not lead on the UK-EU negotiations, which is regretted by the shadow Minister. We just have the rest of the world, which does keep us moderately busy, as I am sure colleagues understand. In terms of the dispute resolution, the critical difference between us and the EU at the moment is that it sees an ongoing role for the European Court as a judgment mechanism on some of these matters, whereas we are explicitly clear that we have left the European Union, and at the end of the transition period the European Court can have no jurisdiction in the United Kingdom; the supreme court in the United Kingdom will be the UK Supreme Court.
The hon. Member mentioned the involvement of the devolved Governments and devolved nations in the negotiations for future free trade agreements. I look forward to meeting my SNP trade counterpart, Minister McKee, this afternoon. We have had a successful programme, as acknowledged in all bar the SNP’s press releases, of sharing documents and information at an official level. We have been totally clear that we intend to negotiate on behalf of all nations and all regions of the United Kingdom.
I said in response to the shadow Minister that we do not lead on the EU; we have the rest of the world, and it is quite a big task. We are clear that we want reform of the WTO. The Secretary of State was in Geneva last week, taking our seat and making the first speech there by a Cabinet Trade Minister for almost 50 years. We passionately want a resolution to the Airbus-Boeing dispute. We hope that the United States will agree to appoint people to make the appellant body quorate again, but we agree with the United States that the WTO more widely does need reform. The Prime Minister has been clear that what we negotiate will be driven by evidence and science, not rumour and mythology, but we want the agriculture sector in the UK to take the opportunities of future FTAs, not least that with the United States, which will be incredibly positive for the sector.
In conclusion, on workers’ rights, manufacturing and environmental standards and the NHS, the shadow Minister was essentially saying that those of us on the Government side are motivated by bad values and want to do bad things. In a sense this is the big difference. I want him and the country to understand that we see great opportunities in free trade agreements for our citizens and companies to grow, with prosperity, wealth and opportunity for all, and to have free and fair trade, which has been the unblocker of liberty, social progress and political rights across the world. We see an opportunity opening before us, providing enormous chances to some of the world’s poorest people. In the months ahead, I will be very proud to advance that agenda.
International Trade
Conor Burns Excerpts(4 years, 1 month ago)
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Andrew Bridgen
What progress has been made in laying the groundwork for a UK-Australia free trade agreement? Is a timetable in place for the commencement of those negotiations?
Conor Burns
This week we have published the proposals for the United States deal, and my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for International Trade is ably leading on Australia, Canada, Japan and, potentially, the comprehensive and progressive agreement for trans-Pacific partnership. She will come to the House in due course, hopefully soon, to lay out full proposals for the terms of those negotiations.
[Official Report, 5 March 2020, Vol. 672, c. 964.]
Letter of correction from the Minister of State, Department for International Trade, the right hon. Member for Bournemouth West (Conor Burns):
An error has been identified in my response to my hon. Friend the Member for North West Leicestershire (Andrew Bridgen).
The correct response should have been:
Conor Burns
This week we have published the proposals for the United States deal, and my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for International Trade is ably leading on Australia, Japan and, potentially, the comprehensive and progressive agreement for trans-Pacific partnership. She will come to the House in due course, hopefully soon, to lay out full proposals for the terms of those negotiations.
Oral Answers to Questions
Conor Burns Excerpts(4 years, 1 month ago)
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Sarah Olney (Richmond Park) (LD)
The Minister of State, Department for International Trade (Conor Burns)
The United Kingdom has published its approach to negotiations with the European Union, and the first round of talks is already under way. The United Kingdom is looking for a free trade agreement with the European Union based on EU precedent. Whatever the outcome of the talks led by David Frost and “Taskforce Europe,” this year we will recover our political and economic independence in full.
Sarah Olney
The question was about whether the Government are seeking to agree what they call an Australia-style deal between the EU and the UK. Given that there is no deal between Australia and the EU, can the Government confirm whether they are happy to accept a no deal between the UK and the EU?
Conor Burns
We already have a deal with the EU that the Prime Minister secured last year. The question now is whether we can secure a free trade agreement with the EU. We seek a Canada-style deal, but Australia trades perfectly effectively through a number of side deals with the EU. Whatever happens, we are going to deliver on the referendum result, fully leave the European Union and provide British business and the British people with the opportunities of global free trade.
Barry Gardiner (Brent North) (Lab)
Can the Minister confirm that, under what the Government euphemistically call this Australia-style trade agreement, all the bilateral investment agreements we have with EU states, which were suspended while we were a member of the EU, will come back into force? What assessment has he made of the likely dispute proceedings that investors from those countries could launch and of the impact that would have on UK trade?
Conor Burns
The shadow Secretary of State may be moderately confused about our purpose here today, as this is questions to the Department for International Trade. As he is well aware, the European Union negotiations are handled by the Cabinet Office, the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster and David Frost, reporting to the Prime Minister.
Andrew Bridgen (North West Leicestershire) (Con)
What progress has been made in laying the groundwork for a UK-Australia free trade agreement? Is a timetable in place for the commencement of those negotiations?
Conor Burns
This week we have published the proposals for the United States deal, and my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for International Trade is ably leading on Australia, Canada, Japan and, potentially, the comprehensive and progressive agreement for trans-Pacific partnership. She will come to the House in due course, hopefully soon, to lay out full proposals for the terms of those negotiations[Official Report, 9 March 2020, Vol. 673, c. 2MC.].
Adam Afriyie (Windsor) (Con)
As the Prime Minister’s trade envoy to Ghana and other parts of west Africa, I am delighted to be meeting a delegation this afternoon to talk about our expertise in science and technology and how we can help to support development in those countries. Does the Minister agree that, as we look out to the rest of the world post Brexit, it is trade with developing nations that will deliver the jobs, prosperity and mutual benefit we seek?
Conor Burns
I absolutely agree with my hon. Friend. He does an excellent job, for which I thank him, as trade envoy to Ghana. We see enormous potential for development and people’s life chances, particularly on the continent of Africa, in free trade between us and Africa, and around the world. Free trade is the route to prosperity, and it is the route to lift people out of poverty. This Government will always champion it for the most deprived people in the world.
Matt Western (Warwick and Leamington) (Lab)
The Minister has just mentioned the Department’s economic impact assessments on future trade deals with Australia, New Zealand, Japan and a CPTPP-type deal, but he will understand that a CETA-type deal—a Canada-style deal with Europe—will hit our economy by 6.2%. To what extent does he believe that the trade deals done with Japan, Australia, New Zealand and so on will compensate for that huge loss to our economy?
Conor Burns
We do not see these things as mutually exclusive. We are now going to be an independent sovereign nation, seeking free trade agreements around the world, liberating British business, with the opportunity to tap in to some of the fastest-growing economies around the world. We want a good deal with the EU and with partners around the world, to the mutual benefit and prosperity of all our citizens.
Nigel Mills (Amber Valley) (Con)
Dr Rupa Huq (Ealing Central and Acton) (Lab)
The Minister of State, Department for International Trade (Conor Burns)
As we said earlier, only this week we have launched our negotiating platform for a free trade agreement with the United States. Those for Australia, New Zealand and Japan will follow in due course, and my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State will set those out. My role within the Department is to support her in scoping out and assessing the potential for future free trade agreements around the rest of the world.
Dr Huq
In reality, the roll-over deals struck to date amount to just 8% of our existing total trade, yet we were told that all this would be sorted by one minute past midnight on 31 March last year. Are the US negotiations being conducted in tandem with the EU ones, with fully trained teams aware of what each other is doing so that that can be factored into any future relationship? I am sure that other countries will be thinking the same, particularly as our objectives seem to be so divergent from the US’s “America first” aims?
Conor Burns
I understand that the hon. Lady attended a briefing yesterday on the negotiations, led by our brilliant chief negotiator. She asks whether we are pursuing concurrent trade negotiations with the EU and the United States. The answer is yes we are, in exactly the same way that the EU is currently negotiating with the United States.
Brendan O’Hara (Argyll and Bute) (SNP)
Further to that question and to the question asked by the hon. Member for Richmond Park (Sarah Olney), I want to be absolutely clear about one thing: there is no such thing as an Australian free trade deal with the EU. An Australia-terms Brexit is actually a no-deal Brexit, and no amount of spin or repackaging can hide that fact. Does the Minister think that no deal is an acceptable outcome, given the near apocalyptic conclusions of his own Government’s Yellowhammer report, which talked about two and a half day waits at ports for lorries? Is that acceptable?
Conor Burns
A free trade agreement with the European Union is our ambition, and we hope that it shares that ambition. Our ambition is also to engage in free trade negotiations, which the Secretary of State is leading on, with the United States, Australia, New Zealand and Japan in the first instance. I can tell the hon. Gentleman and sceptics on the Opposition Benches that the interest in the opportunities for the United Kingdom to engage bilaterally around the world, now that we control our own independent trade policy for the first time in almost 50 years, is almost unquenchable—I think of the conversations we have had in the last six months with the Gulf Co-operation Council, Vietnam, Brazil, Chile, Morocco, Algeria and Commonwealth Trade Ministers. I just hope that the hon. Gentleman’s constituents will welcome the opportunities that we are giving them to trade with the world and enjoy ever increasing prosperity.
Mr Gregory Campbell (East Londonderry) (DUP)
Is the collective mind of Government concentrated on ensuring that these deals are shared across the entirety of the United Kingdom?
Conor Burns
I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for that question. The answer is unequivocally yes. We are determined that the entire United Kingdom—all nations and every region of it—will benefit, and I had the pleasure of returning home to Northern Ireland only a couple of weeks ago to talk about those ambitions with the Executive and businesses in Northern Ireland.
Craig Tracey (North Warwickshire) (Con)
The Minister of State, Department for International Trade (Conor Burns)
We strongly value our trading relationship with the state of Israel and are working closely with the Israeli Government to implement the UK-Israel trade and partnership agreement, but my hon. Friend is absolutely correct to identify the opportunities for us to do so much more. In my constituency, the town of Bournemouth is twinned with Netanya in Israel, and I have seen first-hand the opportunities in the innovation and tech sectors. We are working with Israeli counterparts to host a UK-Israel trade and investment conference in London, whose primary focus will be scoping out and identifying new opportunities for collaboration between Israel and the United Kingdom.
Ruth Jones (Newport West) (Lab)
Global Britain
Conor Burns Excerpts(4 years, 3 months ago)
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The Minister of State, Department for International Trade (Conor Burns)
It is a pleasure to reply to what has been a lively, entertaining and very well-informed debate. It is both an honour and a privilege to stand at this Dispatch Box today as the last Minister of the Crown to respond to a full debate while Britain is a member of the European Union.
Three and a half years ago, the British people took part in the largest binary democratic exercise in our nation’s history. In that referendum, they voted decisively that they wanted Britain’s relationship with the EU and with the rest of the world to change. As my hon. Friend the Member for Wycombe (Mr Baker) so brilliantly said, they wanted an open, outward-looking, internationalist, generous country to rejoin the international community. My approach, as someone who campaigned to leave and who believed, frankly, from the moment the Maastricht treaty was published in 1992 and citizenship of the European Union was established, was that Britain’s destiny lay outside that political institution. But I respect the fact that many of those whom I admire took a different view. I have always been guided, as I know has my hon. Friend, by the old saying that two reasonable people can perfectly reasonably reach opposite conclusions, based on the same set of facts, without each surrendering their right to be considered a reasonable person.
The people of Britain voted for a global Britain, and we are now in the process of realising that agenda. At 11 o’clock tomorrow night, or 12 o’clock for those in Gibraltar, we will leave the EU—I say this for the hon. Member for Glasgow South (Stewart Malcolm McDonald), who mentioned this in response to an intervention from his friend the hon. Member for North Down (Stephen Farry)—as one United Kingdom. This Government are determined to involve every nation and region of this great United Kingdom in that process, which is why only last week I chaired the first joint ministerial forum on trade.
Stewart Malcolm McDonald
Can the Minister tell me one concession he made that the Scottish Government asked for?
Conor Burns
I suggest that the hon. Gentleman talks to his counterpart in the Scottish Government.
My first visit as Minister of State at the Department for International Trade was to Scotland, the second was to Wales, and I was in Northern Ireland the following week, as a declaration of intent of our ambition to involve every nation of this country.
We will now be free to determine our own economic future, rekindling old friendships and reaching out to parts of the world that we may have ignored in recent decades. In our increasingly interconnected, globalised world, trade will play a central and vital role in supporting our shared security and prosperity. We face this future with confidence, built on firm foundations: we have the fifth-largest economy in the world; we are the second-largest service exporter; and we are home to the City of London, the world’s global financial gateway. Our commitment to law-governed liberty, our open liberal economy, our world-class talent and our business-friendly environment have made us a go-to destination for venture capital, and the European leader in attracting foreign direct investment, which last year, according to the Office for National Statistics, was a record level of £1.5 trillion.
We have an enormous amount to offer, whether it is our world-class education sector—a passion of mine since I made my maiden speech nine and a half years ago on the subject of student visitor visas—a system that has led to one in six global leaders having part of their education in the United Kingdom; our internationally renowned tech sector, now home to over 70 tech unicorns; or our green energy sector, which has seen us become a world leader in offshore wind and green finance. I congratulate my right hon. Friend the Member for Bournemouth East (Mr Ellwood) not only on being elected to chair the Defence Committee, but on highlighting the opportunity we have to play a massive international role in combating climate change.
Greg Smith
Will my right hon. Friend assure me that, among the fantastic list of areas in which we are prosperous and have something to offer the world, our creative industries will also be put centre stage?
Conor Burns
My hon. Friend is absolutely right. We lead the world in the creative industries. Only tomorrow I will travel to Pinewood Studios, and on Monday I will visit MediaCity in Manchester, where I will be outlining the contribution that the creative industries make to the United Kingdom’s economy. Given that my hon. Friend is a Bucks Member of Parliament, I think I am right in saying that the person who is hosting me tomorrow at Pinewood Studies chairs his local enterprise partnership.
However, there is a massive missed opportunity in the United Kingdom. It is a sad but true fact that less than 10% of British companies export anything at all overseas. That is why the Government’s export strategy will respond to that, to help increase exports as a percentage of GDP, complemented by a network of free ports, championed by my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State and my hon. Friend the Member for Ipswich (Tom Hunt), who I think is bidding for two of them.
Paul Bristow
The Minister talked about a lack of British firms exporting.
I wonder if he would give a shout-out to the communications industry. The communications industry in the UK is pioneering, and the Public Relations and Communications Association—the trade association for the communications industry—is now setting up and exporting British communications expertise across the country. I declare an interest in that my spouse is the owner of a communications company.
Conor Burns
My hon. Friend is absolutely right. I have no doubt that as well as being a vocal and articulate champion for Peterborough, he will promote the service sector in the UK economy, as he has just done so effectively.
I will endeavour to reply to the specific points raised in the debate. The shadow Minister criticised the Government for our interaction with Parliament in future agreements. We are going to publish an outline for each negotiation that includes objectives and scoping assessments, as well as an explanatory memorandum. The shadow Secretary of State constantly talks about us having an ineffective trade remedy system. The simple repetition of something does not make it true. We are going to have a tough regime, learning from international best practice.
I promised to come back to the shadow Secretary of State on the situation in Western Sahara. The UK-Morocco agreement will apply in the same way as the EU-Morocco agreement, having been amended to comply with the European Court of Justice judgment on the issue; that is a critical point. He also raised the question of bribery and corruption in the provision of UK Export Finance. UK Export Finance always carries out anti-bribery due diligence before providing any support at all.
I promise that I did not put him up to it, but my hon. Friend the Member for Arundel and South Downs (Andrew Griffith) said that we needed greater resource and more trade commissioners. He made that point very well indeed, and I hope it is heard. It would be inappropriate for me to endorse it, but—what is the old saying?—“He might very well think that; I couldn’t possibly comment.”
Mr Steve Baker
May I impress upon the Minister that with so many trade negotiations going on simultaneously, it is very important that he has another Minister of State in his Department?
Conor Burns
My hon. Friend will doubtless have been heard as well.
I pay tribute to those who made maiden speeches. The hon. Member for Aberdeen South (Stephen Flynn) gave an accomplished performance. I disagreed with almost every word of it, but he delivered it very effectively indeed. I thank him, from many of us on the Government Benches, for his kind words about his predecessor Ross Thomson.
My hon. Friend the Member for West Bromwich West (Shaun Bailey) spoke of his conversation with the noble Lady Boothroyd. We on the Treasury Bench understand the need to deliver, and having listened to him, I am certain that we will deliver for him and that he will not let Baroness Boothroyd down.
My hon. Friend the Member for Wolverhampton South West (Stuart Anderson) gave the most moving and deeply personal speech of the day. I salute him for his courage in speaking in that way in the Chamber. It was a genuine privilege to be on the Front Bench to hear his contribution.
The hon. Member for Streatham (Bell Ribeiro-Addy) gave an amusing and engaging speech, and spoke of her predecessor, Chuka Umunna. We all have things to learn from our predecessors. I learned much from Sir John Butterfill. I continue to learn much from the right hon. the Lord Eden of Winton, who first came to this House in 1954 and still provides me with excellent advice. The one piece of advice that the hon. Lady perhaps should not take from her predecessor is to join the Lib Dems—however tempting a prospect and however desperate they are. It would not be a career-enhancing move.
My hon. Friend the Member for Totnes (Anthony Mangnall) gave an absolute tour de force of a speech, in which he spoke a lot about fishing and ports, and then more about fish. I would say there is absolutely nothing fishy about my hon. Friend, which is not something that we could always say about his predecessor.
There are many who are worried about us leaving the European Union. They seem to think that we are going to cut all ties and walk away. The EU will remain our closest and largest market, and the Government are committed—as we committed with the EU in the political declaration—to signing a free trade agreement by the end of this year. But there are massive opportunities for the United Kingdom to exploit outside the European Union. According to the IMF, 90% of global GDP growth in the next five years will come from outside the EU. The trade deals we seek to negotiate, alongside those with the EU, represent a raft of exciting new trade agreements with other priority countries, our aim being to cover 80% of our trade with FTAs within three years. The United States, our largest single trading partner, is the obvious place to start—which is why we started there—but we also look to like-minded partners such as Australia, New Zealand and Japan. My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State has already made enormous strides in this regard, along with engaging positively on our potential accession to the CPTPP—heralded, again, by my hon. Friend the Member for Peterborough (Paul Bristow).
As I travel, I see enormous interest in what leaving the European Union means for other countries in their relationship with the United Kingdom. When I listened to the speech by the hon. Member for Brentford and Isleworth (Ruth Cadbury), I concluded that she must have been supping from the cup of pessimism. If what she was saying in the House today is what she is saying to people overseas, no wonder they think we are in a bad way. I find when I go to Chile, to Brazil, to Morocco, to Algeria—
Ruth Cadbury
The Minister talks about pessimism from overseas. When I visited businesses in Mumbai in 2018, they told me that it was incredibly difficult for them to do business in the UK because of the restrictive nature of getting business visas to come to the UK to meet their counterparts here. What conversations is he having with the Home Office to ensure that it is making it as easy for businesses overseas, in all these countries that the Government now want to trade with, to come here and do business as it is when they visit other countries—our competitor countries?
Conor Burns
The hon. Lady missed out only one thing in that wonderful intervention, and that was to conclude by welcoming the commitment to a points-based immigration system that will make it easier for people from around the world to come to the United Kingdom.
Conor Burns
No, I am not giving way again.
As my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister said at the UK-Africa investment summit, we want a system that is about people, not passports. I see enormous interest about what we can do—
Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans)
That is not a point of order for the Chair; indeed, it was not even made to the Chair.
Conor Burns
I am grateful, Mr Deputy Speaker. Of course, the point that the hon. Lady made in her speech, and the point she is making now, is that people think that there are no opportunities in Brexit—that it is a disaster for Britain. But that visa situation happened while we were inside the European Union; it is an entirely unrelated point. We have the opportunity of changing that when we leave tomorrow and at the end of the year.
In response to the shadow Minister, who is again talking to the shadow Secretary of State, we have plenty of negotiators to help and support us—as many as the US trade rep has—and we have managed to negotiate over £110 billion of trade continuity agreements. She asked if I knew about what plans the Prime Minister has to change the structure of government or reshuffle his team. I have to say—knowing him well, as I do—that I do not. If I did, I might be more popular with my colleagues than I am.
Our country, and its nations and regions, have, over the centuries, given so much to the world. I remember the story of Winston Churchill in the early years of the last century, when, leaving this Chamber through those doors late at night, he turned and pointed in, and said, looking towards your Chair, Mr Deputy Speaker:
“This little room is the shrine of the world’s liberties.”
I was born in September 1972. Her Majesty gave Royal Assent to the European Communities Act in October 1972. I have lived but one month of my life in a country that had an independent trade policy. In one of Lady Thatcher’s favourite quotes:
“That which thy fathers have bequeathed to thee, earn it anew if thou wouldst possess it.”
That is our task: to herald our talent, to boost our trade, to grow our exports. Let future generations say, when they look back at us today, that we have brought jobs, prosperity and investment to every person in, and every corner of, our great nation. When they look back, let them say of us: they heralded the dawn of a new golden age and built a truly global Britain.
Question put and agreed to.
Resolved,
That this House has considered global Britain.
Oral Answers to Questions
Conor Burns Excerpts(4 years, 3 months ago)
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Stephen Flynn (Aberdeen South) (SNP)
The Minister of State, Department for International Trade (Conor Burns)
Leaving the European Union frees the United Kingdom to introduce a fairer immigration system. My right hon. Friend the Prime Minister said at the UK-Africa investment summit this week that
“our system is becoming fairer and more equal as between all our global friends and partners. Treating people the same regardless, wherever they come from and by putting people before passports, we will be able to attract the best talent from around the world, wherever they may be.”
We will also be able to reach out and strike new global trade agreements to the benefit of all our constituents and UK consumers.
Margaret Ferrier
I thank the Minister for that answer. The President of the EU Commission said:
“Without the free movement of people,”
the UK cannot expect to
“have the free movement of capital, goods and services”.
Is it not true that taking control of our borders comes with not only an unacceptable human cost, but a very serious economic one?
Conor Burns
I am sorry, but not surprised, that the SNP cannot see that there is talent beyond the shores of the European Union. Freedom of movement was discussed at length during the referendum. We on the Government Benches believe in respecting the results of referendums, including the one in Scotland.
Stephen Flynn
Scottish Financial Enterprise told the Scottish Affairs Committee that the success of Scotland’s financial industry was based on its ability to access and service all customers in the European Union. Does that not once again highlight the vital importance of freedom of movement to Scotland and show that the UK Government simply do not care about Scotland’s interests or, indeed, Scotland’s votes?
Conor Burns
It shows the reverse. As the Government reach out to negotiate new comprehensive free trade agreements around the world, we will negotiate the best deals possible for every nation and every region of the United Kingdom. This Government will always have Scotland’s interests close to their heart.
Mr Steve Baker (Wycombe) (Con)
Is my right hon. Friend as surprised as I am that so many Members of this House do not seem to have read and understood the political declaration on the future relationship? In particular, does he agree that we should expect that the various modes of supply in connection with services will go on around the world and that people will travel to deliver services?
Conor Burns
My hon. Friend is right. It is sad that so many in this House, particularly on the Opposition side, including on the SNP Benches, appear stuck in June 2016. We on the Government Benches—[Interruption.] I say to the hon. Member for Rutherglen and Hamilton West (Margaret Ferrier) that we are not remotely touchy. While she is stuck in the past, we are focused on the future.
Mark Fletcher (Bolsover) (Con)
The Minister of State, Department for International Trade (Conor Burns)
North Africa is an important region for the United Kingdom. To advance trade in this area, I have in the last four months alone visited Morocco twice and Algeria once, and led trade discussions at the UK-Tunisia bilateral forum, and the Government have laid transition texts of the Morocco and Tunisian association agreements in Parliament. Taking advantage of the UK-Africa summit this week, I signed a memorandum of understanding to explore opportunities in more detail with Morocco and spoke to the Algeria British Business Council. My hon. Friend is right to see enormous opportunities in north Africa, and we will use the coming months to develop those.
Damien Moore
I thank my right hon. Friend for his response. One of the countries he referred to was Tunisia. Will he join me in welcoming the new trade agreement between the United Kingdom and Tunisia, which was signed recently, and which will see 7,723 tonnes of Tunisian olive oil available to the British economy duty-free? Will he meet me and the respective UK and Tunisian ambassadors to explore further trading opportunities?
Conor Burns
My hon. Friend is right to see the enormous opportunities. It was my pleasure to lead the trade discussions in the UK-Tunisia bilateral forum last September, and I would be absolutely delighted to meet the ambassadors with my hon. Friends to see what more trade we can do between our two countries.
Barry Gardiner (Brent North) (Lab)
In its decision issued in March 2019, the High Court of England and Wales confirmed that the territory of Western Sahara is separate from Morocco under international law. It ruled that the UK Government were acting unlawfully by failing to distinguish between the territory of Morocco and the occupied territory of Western Sahara. Yet the trade agreement between the UK and the Kingdom of Morocco purports to apply to the territory of Western Sahara, despite the total lack of consent from the Sahrawi people. Will the Secretary of State explain why that is the case? Given that the Constitutional Reform and Governance Act 2010 process to ratify the agreement is now under way, is it her intention to hold a debate to discuss why the Government are proceeding to ratify a treaty that the High Court has ruled illegal?
Conor Burns
We had discussions about this subject with representatives of the Moroccan Government, including the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and International Cooperation, when I visited Morocco two weeks ago, and indeed it was raised by my hon. Friend the Minister for Africa when he was with me there last October. The United Kingdom has taken the consistent position that the matter needs to be resolved diplomatically and sensitively with ongoing discussions.
Eddie Hughes (Walsall North) (Con)
Kenny MacAskill (East Lothian) (SNP)
The Minister of State, Department for International Trade (Conor Burns)
I would gently say to the hon. Gentleman that if we are to de-escalate these tariff disputes, attacks on the US Administration and the President are unwise and unwelcome. We are working across Government to persuade the United States that these tariffs are damaging to the Scots whisky sector—[Interruption.] If Scottish National party Members would stop chuntering and get behind us, we might have more chance of removing these tariffs. We will seek to stand up for the Scots whisky sector and persuade the United States to remove these tariffs. My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State has been in touch with trade representative Lighthizer, and we will work for the Scots whisky industry. Get behind the Government!
International Trade
Conor Burns Excerpts(4 years, 6 months ago)
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Dr Rupa Huq (Ealing Central and Acton) (Lab)
The Minister of State, Department for International Trade (Conor Burns)
In preparation for our exit from the European Union, the Government have, to date, secured 16 continuity trade agreements with 46 countries. Trade with those countries represents 72% of the UK’s total trade. I am pleased to inform the House that only last week my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State signed another agreement with the Southern African Customs Union and Mozambique to roll over the existing EU trade agreements that we have with them.
[Official Report, 17 October 2019, Vol. 666, c. 431.]
Letter of correction from the Minister of State, Department for International Trade, the right hon. Member for Bournemouth West (Conor Burns):
An error has been identified in the response I gave to the hon. Member for Ealing Central and Acton (Dr Huq).
The correct response should have been:
The Minister of State, Department for International Trade (Conor Burns)
In preparation for our exit from the European Union, the Government have, to date, secured 16 continuity trade agreements with 46 countries. Trade with those countries represents 72% of the UK’s total trade with those with which we are seeking continuity. I am pleased to inform the House that only last week my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State signed another agreement with the Southern African Customs Union and Mozambique to roll over the existing EU trade agreements that we have with them.
Oral Answers to Questions
Conor Burns Excerpts(4 years, 6 months ago)
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Dr Rupa Huq (Ealing Central and Acton) (Lab)
The Minister of State, Department for International Trade (Conor Burns)
In preparation for our exit from the European Union, the Government have, to date, secured 16 continuity trade agreements with 46 countries. Trade with those countries represents 72% of the UK’s total trade. I am pleased to inform the House that only last week my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State signed another agreement with the Southern African Customs Union and Mozambique to roll over the existing EU trade agreements that we have with them.[Official Report, 31 October 2019, Vol. 667, c. 4MC.]
Dr Huq
The Minister says there are 16 agreements, but given the Government’s clear broken promise to roll over at least 40 trade deals by one minute after midnight on 31 March, two Brexit extensions ago, have they carried out any assessment of the economic loss that will result if—I will say if, not when—we are unable to secure a trade deal with all the countries that the EU already has an existing arrangement with?
Conor Burns
I am sorry that the hon. Lady has not welcomed the efforts that the Government and officials have made to make this incredibly successful transition. These deals account for over £100 billion-worth of our current trade, and they are warmly welcomed by the businesses that trade beyond the borders of the European Union. I will tell her what assessment we have made on the European Union: we have made an assessment that it would be deeply damaging for our democracy if we do not honour the referendum of 2016.
Rachel Maclean (Redditch) (Con)
Will the Minister explain to the House how, when we leave the EU, his Department will continue to protect UK businesses from unfair trading practices?
Conor Burns
We remain absolutely committed to ensuring a level playing field. The United Kingdom has been one of the leading international advocates of a rules-based order. As my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State said, we are committed to playing our full part in the WTO, and we are absolutely committed to having a trade resolution body up and running and formally underpinned by statute. This is the boring bit—the continuity bit. The exciting bit comes when we leave the European Union and we can strike out with new, comprehensive free trade agreements around the world.
Angus Brendan MacNeil (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) (SNP)
Despite the existing architecture, despite not needing to reinvent the wheel, despite not starting from zero—we could just follow the work the European Union has done—and despite the promise to do this by one minute after midnight, the slow progress in these trade agreements surely does not bode well for any of the future trade agreements that the Government talk about ad nauseam. Meanwhile, the UK Government are endangering the trading potential of companies in the UK. When will the other 24 be done?
Conor Burns
We are working aggressively to continue the roll-overs, and many are very close to being completed. Despite the hon. Gentleman’s distinguished position as Chair of the International Trade Committee, if optimism were a disease, he would be immune.
Judith Cummins (Bradford South) (Lab)
The Trade Bill was supposed to govern the roll-over of EU trade deals, but the Government abandoned it in the last Session because they knew that they would lose votes on important amendments, including on scrutiny and parliamentary approval. Can the Minister confirm that the Government will carry over those vital provisions into the new trade Bill, so that elected Members of this Parliament can properly scrutinise all trade agreements, to prevent our NHS, food standards and environmental protections from being traded away to President Trump?
Conor Burns
As a distinguished parliamentarian, the hon. Lady knows how this House works. She will have ample opportunity to scrutinise the trade Bill during its passage through Parliament and, if she wishes, to make amendments to the Bill, which can then be considered by the House. I wish that the Opposition would stop peddling this lie, which is worrying people, about the NHS and the United States. The Prime Minister has made it repeatedly clear that the NHS is not on the table in any trade agreement. She should stop scaremongering.
Brendan O'Hara (Argyll and Bute) (SNP)
Greg Hands (Chelsea and Fulham) (Con)
The Minister of State, Department for International Trade (Conor Burns)
The European Union has made very clear its opposition to tariff escalation and its support for the international rules-based trading system. As a vocal champion of that very system, the United Kingdom endorses the EU approach. Low tariffs and free trade are the underpinning guarantor of prosperity and jobs in the UK; tariff wars are in no one’s interest.
Greg Hands
Does my right hon. Friend agree, given the growing disruption in the EU’s trade relationship with both the US and China, that now is not the time to have disruption in the EU-UK trade relationship? The UK will become, overnight, the EU’s second largest trade partner. Does that not show all of us the need to get a trade deal with Brussels that we can live with and move on?
Conor Burns
I am grateful to my right hon. Friend. As a distinguished former occupant of the job I now have, he understands these matters incredibly well. He is absolutely correct: the United Kingdom is about to become the EU’s second largest trading partner, with £357 billion of goods and services exported to the UK last year. A good Brexit deal is in the interests of the EU and in the interests of the UK, and I am sure the whole House—at least, I wish the whole House—would wish my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister every success today in trying to get that agreement.
Mohammad Yasin (Bedford) (Lab)
Recently, the Secretary of State said she would be
“unapologetic in fighting the forces of protectionism, in favour of genuinely free trade.”
Will she put this into action now for one of my constituents, a specialist publisher of historical aviation books, who from tomorrow will pay 25% tariffs on his materials, a large proportion of which are shipped to the US?
Conor Burns
I absolutely give the hon. Gentleman the assurance that we will work tirelessly to promote trade, investment and the prosperity of the United Kingdom. On the hon. Gentleman’s particular point, I would be delighted to meet him to talk about his constituency business.
Ross Thomson (Aberdeen South) (Con)
Sir David Amess (Southend West) (Con)
The Minister of State, Department for International Trade (Conor Burns)
It sounds like my hon. Friend is drawing up a very exciting programme of autumn travel. He is absolutely right that our departure from the European Union will offer huge opportunities for the United Kingdom in the vast and growing Asian market, which I saw at first hand only a couple of weeks ago in Vietnam.
Stephen Morgan (Portsmouth South) (Lab)
Christian Matheson (City of Chester) (Lab)
Will Ministers assure us that, in their desperation to sign any trade deal to justify their Brexit policy, they will not give a green light, or a nod and a wink, to President Bolsonaro to continue the destruction of the Amazon rain forest?
Conor Burns
As my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State alluded to some moments ago, I visited Brazil recently. In addition to conversations about trade, we discussed with the Brazilian Government how the United Kingdom can assist them in their move to a low-carbon, greener energy production model. We have spent over £150 million of climate finance in forest programmes across Brazil, and I was delighted, in the light of my recent visit, that the Prime Minister announced a further £10 million to help the Brazilian authorities in forestation and deforestation.
Chuka Umunna (Streatham) (LD)
The National Audit Office said yesterday that if the UK leaves the EU without a deal, cross-border shipments could be reduced by more than 50% and would take 12 months to return to normal. Can we stop this charade? Is it not the case that no responsible Government would do that to our businesses, and that if there is no agreement with the EU by Saturday, the Prime Minister will send the letter requesting an extension, not least because if he fails to do so he will be in contempt of court, given the proceedings in the Court of Session?
No-deal Brexit: Schedule of Tariffs
Conor Burns Excerpts(4 years, 6 months ago)
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Urgent Questions are proposed each morning by backbench MPs, and up to two may be selected each day by the Speaker. Chosen Urgent Questions are announced 30 minutes before Parliament sits each day.
Each Urgent Question requires a Government Minister to give a response on the debate topic.
This information is provided by Parallel Parliament and does not comprise part of the offical record
Mr Chris Leslie (Nottingham East) (IGC)
(Urgent Question): To ask the Secretary of State for International Trade if she will set out the final schedule of import tariffs proposed in the event of a no-deal Brexit.
The Minister of State, Department for International Trade (Conor Burns)
I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his question.
On 13 March, the Government announced that they would implement a temporary tariff regime in the event of a no-deal Brexit. This regime would apply equally to all imports that are not subject to alternative trade arrangements and would apply for up to—I stress, up to—12 months while a full public consultation takes place to inform long-term tariff arrangements. The Government would prefer to leave with a deal and will continue to work energetically and with determination to get that better deal. This will require the European Union to show the same spirit of compromise that my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister is demonstrating in his engagement with our European friends and allies.
As the UK leaves the EU, the Government are stepping up their preparations to get the UK ready to trade if there is no deal. The temporary tariff regime will maintain open trade on the majority of UK imports, helping to support consumers, business supply chains and sensitive sectors of the UK economy. Due regard has been given to the five principles set out in the Taxation (Cross-border Trade) Act 2018: the interests of consumers in the UK; the interests of producers in the UK; the desire to maintain and promote external trade of the UK; the desire to maintain and promote productivity in the UK; and the extent to which these goods are subject to competition. It reaffirms our commitment to become a free-trading nation. It realises the benefits of an independent trade policy to support increased trade and investment with partners new and old around the world and increased choice for British shoppers.
At the same time, Her Majesty’s Government recognise the importance of retaining some tariffs. Tariffs would therefore apply on just over 10% of imports, supporting sectors facing unfair global competition, mitigating otherwise significant adjustment costs for the agricultural sector, supporting the strategically important automotive sector and maintaining our commitments to developing countries. Preferential access to the UK market is important for our developing country partners, and tariffs are being retained on a set of goods, including bananas, raw sugar cane and certain kinds of fish, to demonstrate the Government’s ongoing commitment to countries in the developing world. During the article 50 extension, the Government have remained responsive to the concerns of business and have reviewed the tariffs that would come into effect if the UK left the EU without a deal.
To answer the hon. Member for Nottingham East (Mr Leslie), the Government will publish the final tariffs shortly. It would not be appropriate for me to comment on any amendments being considered prior to that announcement. As he will understand from his former guise as shadow Chancellor, to do so would be irresponsible. The Government will ensure that Parliament is informed as soon as is practically possible once a final decision has been made.
Mr Leslie
Thankfully, the Benn Act will safeguard Britain from a no-deal Brexit, but with the Minister still insisting that, in only 24 days’ time, we might somehow crash out on a World Trade Organisation basis, does it not beggar belief that the Government have still not got around to publishing the final schedule of import tariffs for that eventuality? The Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster has said that what we have had is not the final word, and he has repeated that today.
At present, we can import from and export to the EU without any customs duties applying, but that could be about to end. The consequences for so many sectors of our economy, including farming, manufacturing and engineering, are massive. I ask the Minister: how are businesses supposed to “get ready”, as the £100 million advertising campaign suggests, if Ministers still cannot tell us the tariffs that will be imposed and seem incapable of even the most basic competent level of preparation?
The CBI director general Carolyn Fairbairn rightly asks why there is no time to consult industries about what tariffs will be applied. Even if we put aside the enormous non-tariff barriers of veterinary inspections, border checks and certification, are businesses to assume that the draft tariffs that were put out in March will still apply? Some of the import tariffs that Ministers are rumoured to be planning are really high. For example, if a British haulage company needs to buy an HGV truck from abroad, should it plan to pay an additional 22% on the cost or 10% because of the Government’s tariff plan? Will my constituents have to add 10% to the cost of buying a new car? What about the UK energy and bioethanol sector? Will customers have to pay the 4.7% tariff on fuel imported from the EU, as they currently do for fuel from beyond the EU? If not, will that not push the British energy sector into a competitive disadvantage when the 4.7% is imposed on its exports? There are container ships full of goods, components, textiles and clothing that have already been dispatched from the far east and elsewhere, heading for arrival at our shores at the end of the month. Will they face tariffs when they get to Britain, or not?
If British businesses suddenly have to start paying tariffs to export into Europe, what will the reciprocal tariffs be on goods imported into our country? How will British farmers compete with foreign produce when, for example, their lamb will face a 48% tariff when selling into Europe, their cheddar 57%, their poultry 37%, their wheat 53% and their beef 84%? The National Farmers Union is deeply concerned about the risk of foreign producers undercutting domestic production. So can the Minister at least do us the courtesy of setting out the rationale and strategic logic behind his decisions? Where is the parliamentary authority for imposing these tariffs and taxes? When will there be a vote in the House of Commons as the customs legislation requires?
Given that the Government now want a customs frontier in Ireland, will the Minister confirm that goods coming from the Republic into Northern Ireland will have tariffs added on? How does he think people and businesses in Northern Ireland will respond to the imposition of a tariff border in that way?
Would it not be far better to accept that erecting reciprocal tariffs between the UK and the EU is a fool’s errand—an endless cycle of costs and bureaucracy where everyone loses out in the end? Will the Minister at least have the good grace to acknowledge that, by leaving the single market and the customs union, British businesses and customers will be worse off, and for no good reason?
Conor Burns
I said in reply to the hon. Gentleman’s first question that it would be irresponsible to go through the entire list of proposed tariffs prior to the formal announcement by the Government, which, as I indicated to him, he may not have to wait all that long to see. He spent the majority of his subsequent questions asking me to do that which I had said it would be irresponsible to do and I will not be drawn down that road, however tempting it is.
I thought the hon. Gentleman’s subsequent questions underlined the desirability of there being a deal between the United Kingdom and the European Union as we seek to leave. I hope that in the days ahead the EU will respond in the same spirit that my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister has demonstrated and show flexibility and compromise to get a deal that will pass the House. Then the tariff announcements might become redundant. That is very much our hope. The hon. Gentleman said that he found it extraordinary that so long had passed and we had yet to publish this. Many people in my constituency and around the country find it equally astonishing that it is more than three years since the UK voted to leave the EU and still people in this House are determined to thwart that democratic decision.
The hon. Gentleman asked specifically about the situation on the island of Ireland. I am happy to confirm, as I think he will know, that there will be no tariffs on goods coming from the Republic of Ireland into Northern Ireland. On parliamentary process, he will know exactly how that works. The House will have the opportunity to have its say within 60 days of the tariff regime coming into place.
Several hon. Members rose—
Dr Liam Fox (North Somerset) (Con)
The day one tariffs were set to produce price stability, protect businesses that took time to make adjustments and ensure there were not additional costs for British importers, who then add value and re-export. Given that it is a good policy and that the assumption of a sterling depreciation of 7% to 13% in the event of a no deal has not changed, can the tariffs be published as soon as possible? Will my hon. Friend also make it very clear that, if we have to introduce the day one tariffs as they are at the present time, the responsibility will lie not with the Government but with those who refused to accept a deal of any sort in the House?
Conor Burns
My right hon. Friend has put that argument extremely effectively and powerfully. May I use this opportunity—my debut at the Dispatch Box—to thank him for all the work that he did in the Department? The fact that, in the last couple of weeks, we now have more than 72% of trade agreed in continuity agreements is largely due to the enormous efforts that he put in during his time at the Department. He is absolutely right: the day one tariff regime is determined to protect British consumers in the event of a no-deal Brexit. Those who can avoid a no-deal Brexit are our friends in Europe coming to terms with the Prime Minister in a deal that will be passed by the House and implement the democratic decision in the referendum of 2016.
Barry Gardiner (Brent North) (Lab)
I welcome the Minister to the Dispatch Box.
The Government failed to consult properly with business organisations or with trade unions before publishing these tariff measures, ignoring the very producers whose jobs and livelihoods would be most affected. Their refusal to listen and their inability to compromise are now posing grave dangers to our country.
The Government told us that EU manufacturers would be demanding a deal with us. They did not. The Government said that a trade deal with the EU would be the easiest in human history. It is not. The Government told us that they would have 40 trade agreements ready to be signed one second after midnight on Brexit day. They do not. Far from our seeing other countries
“champing at the bit to strike trade deals with a post-Brexit Britain”,
as the Secretary of State claimed, many of those countries already have a trade agreement with us by way of the EU, but it is a trade agreement that will fall away if we leave the EU without a deal. The Government have failed to roll over all the existing deals with approximately 70 countries. That is why, earlier this year, the Government announced emergency proposals to reduce up to 87% of UK tariffs to zero, and to expand our tariff rate quotas in the event of a no deal. As new tariffs are imposed on our exports, damaging jobs, this is a desperate attempt to keep import costs down for British consumers.
So may I ask, first, whether the Minister will publish the Government’s assessment of the price rises that they anticipate would hit UK consumers in default of these tariff rates? The Government advise businesses that, in a no-deal scenario, we would trade under World Trade Organisation rules. However, the Government have yet to have our WTO schedules formally ratified owing to challenges over our tariff rate quotas—challenges that are likely to require substantial compensation to resolve. So, secondly, when does the Department believe that such a challenge may crystallise, and what contingency funds have they laid aside to pay compensation to any complainants?
The lunacy of the Government’s position has been exposed by a country that they previously regarded as a friendly model for their future free trade agreement with Europe. Canada has walked away from trade talks with the UK precisely because these measures would mean free access for Canadian exporters without requiring them to open up access to our goods and services in return. So, thirdly, can the Minister tell us what progress has since been made with respect to Canadian trade talks, and whether any other countries have similarly refused to negotiate as a result of the announcement of zero tariffs by the UK? Under this regime, UK companies will face competition from a flood of cheap imports, undercutting them and putting thousands of UK jobs at risk, without any reciprocal right of free access to their markets for our manufacturers and businesses.
Just about every single major trade body and trade union in the UK has decried the lack of engagement with it, and, in particular, the Department’s lack of understanding in respect of trade defence measures. So, fourthly, I ask the Minister what assessment he has made of the diversion of goods originally destined for other markets at a time when those other markets are increasing tariffs and taking substantive action to tackle the issue of dumping. These are existential threats to our industrial heartlands. The steel sector, the ceramics sector and the automotive sector are all greatly at risk from the proposed measures.
The EU has introduced stringent new safeguard measures to tackle dumping, and is due to set out its approach to tackling circumvention shortly. So, fifthly, does the Minister recognise that this could add further tariffs to our EU exports in the event of a no-deal Brexit, and could drive even more dumped goods to our markets? If so, sixthly, can he explain why the Government have sought to establish the weakest Trade Remedies Authority in the world, and to do so without proper legal authority?
Conor Burns
Well, goodness me! We heard not a single word about what the Opposition would do to support the Government in trying to get a deal. We heard no word of compromise. We heard flip-flop after flip-flop, with not a single constructive suggestion from the shadow Secretary of State. Why am I not remotely surprised by that?
The hon. Gentleman talks about a lack of interest. [Interruption.] If the hon. Member for Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath (Lesley Laird) stopped chuntering and listened, she might hear something. The shadow Secretary of State said there was no interest in trade agreements. What does he think is going on with the United States? With Australia? With New Zealand? Everywhere that I have travelled in this role, I have discovered an enormous interest in what our withdrawal from the European Union means not just for the United Kingdom, but for our ability to do bilateral trade agreements with other countries. As I said in reply to my right hon. Friend the former Secretary of State, we have transitioned over 72% of UK trade in continuity agreements, which will protect us in the event of a no-deal Brexit—which is something that the hon. Gentleman seems determined to advocate, given his lack of support for the Prime Minister.
The hon. Gentleman talks about the Trade Remedies Authority. There is not a single member of the civil service working today who was working in the civil service the last time the United Kingdom had her own independent trade body. The fact that we have established the Trade Remedies Authority, which I visited several weeks ago—[Interruption.] If the hon. Gentleman took a bit of time to understand his brief, he would understand very clearly—[Interruption.] The hon. Gentleman laughs. He should be laughing at himself, because he does not understand the very policy that he shadows. The body is created. The body can function temporarily without the passage of the Trade Bill in the event of a no-deal Brexit, as he should know, and then we will put it on a statutory footing when we introduce a new trade Bill in a new Session of Parliament.
The shadow Minister talked about all the things that we have not done. Let us talk about some of the things that he said he would do. He said that he would respect the referendum. He did not. He said that he would implement the decision of the British people. He will not. What we will do is take the opportunities of having an independent trade policy—the opportunity to sign bilateral trade agreements and the opportunity of free trade—to deliver prosperity to our citizens.
Mrs Maria Miller (Basingstoke) (Con)
I congratulate my hon. Friend on his clear command of his brief. Will he take this opportunity to update us on the progress that he is making on seeking continuity of some of the other EU trade agreements, particularly those with Canada and Africa, many of which the Opposition opposed?
Conor Burns
This Government take great pride in the number of those agreements that we have transitioned into continuity agreements. There are many more on the cusp of being agreed. We are dealing with some technical issues and there is ongoing engagement all the time. I was recently in Algeria and Morocco, where we are making substantial progress, and I returned yesterday evening from Vietnam—you might say that I am in another time zone, Mr Speaker, while the hon. Member for Brent North (Barry Gardiner) is on another planet. Even in Vietnam there is significant interest in coming to a continuity agreement with the UK. We will continue to work to deliver those. Of course, as my right hon. Friend and I will both agree, it would be much better if we did not have to go to continuity agreements but instead got the best continuity agreement, which would be a new agreement between ourselves and the European Union, which I hope the Opposition will finally support.
Stewart Hosie (Dundee East) (SNP)
When the temporary tariff regime was announced this March, the UK Government argued that if they maintained the current external tariff regime, there would be new tariffs on EU imports. They said that if zero tariffs were maintained with the EU, even though that would minimise trade disruption, that would be required to be extended to the rest of the world due to WTO rules. The Government also said that they would keep 43 of the existing trade remedy measures that were in place, but much has changed since then. There has been another round of US tariffs and there is the potential for another round of EU tariffs in response to the US action, so let me ask the Minister this.
Given new tariffs from the US and the EU, has the schedule in the temporary tariff regime changed and, if so, by how much? Has the list of 43 trade remedies to be kept and 66 to be abandoned changed and, if so, by how many? Most importantly, with barely three weeks to go to a potential no-deal Brexit—although the Benn Act should protect us from that—I say to the Minister that it is not irresponsible to publish the new schedule. It is absolutely necessary to publish it, not least to allow businesses—importing and exporting businesses alike—at least a little certainty and to ensure that they can continue to operate within the law. The Minister is having a great time teasing us about when the schedule will be published, so may I ask him to publish it today so that businesses understand precisely what they are dealing with?
Conor Burns
Of course, I did not say that it would be irresponsible to publish it. I said that it would be inappropriate and irresponsible to comment on what is in it before it is published.
Alan Mak (Havant) (Con)
High-value manufacturing and engineering are key to our economy, including in my constituency. Will my hon. Friend assure me that as we develop our independent trade policy he will take action to ensure our vital industries are protected from unfair trading practices?
Conor Burns
I can absolutely give my hon. Friend that assurance. We are determined that the trade remedies body will be one of the most innovative and strong bodies in protecting not just free trade but fair trade.
Chuka Umunna (Streatham) (LD)
The Prime Minister talks about getting Brexit done by 31 October and indeed, the Minister has just referred to that, too, but is it not the reality that, if Brexit were to happen on that day, with or without a withdrawal agreement, no trade agreement, including a permanent tariff regime with our biggest customer, the EU, will be in place at the point of departure? Is it not the case that, to put in place a permanent trade agreement will take at least three years? If I am wrong about that, can he name one EU leader who is suggesting that we could get a permanent trade agreement in place quicker than that timeframe? Nothing is going to be done, really, by 31 October.
Conor Burns
If there is a deal by 31 October, as the Government wish, it is highly likely that the deal will come with an implementation period. That would give us the opportunity to come to a comprehensive free trade agreement with our European Union friends and neighbours before the end of that implementation period. I give the hon. Gentleman full marks for consistency on this, as he has never seen any opportunities in the idea of Brexit, and he believes—it is a perfectly logical and consistent position—that our current membership of the EU under the current terms is the best thing possible. Many of us believe that there are significant opportunities for the United Kingdom not only to trade with our largest and nearest trading partner, but to have new bilateral trade agreements with countries around the world—that is the opportunity that Brexit provides.
Jeremy Lefroy (Stafford) (Con)
Will my hon. Friend confirm whether an impact assessment will be published at the same time as the new schedule of tariffs to show the effect of these tariffs on both imports and exports, and hence on jobs within the United Kingdom?
Conor Burns
The schedule has been drawn up to take account of much of the lobbying and of the assessments that the Government have made, and by our drawing on wide expertise on the position that we would face in a number of scenarios. My hon. Friend will have to wait for the publication, but I assure him that he will not have to wait for very long.
Alison McGovern (Wirral South) (Lab)
For manufacturers in the north of England, it is hard to know which is worse: the fact that this Government are prepared to countenance no deal, or the fact that the deal that they are proposing significantly disadvantages the north compared with Northern Ireland. Can I ask the Minister, therefore, further to the question from the hon. Member for Stafford (Jeremy Lefroy): which representative organisations has he met that represent companies in the complex modern manufacturing supply chain?
Conor Burns
I have met both companies and representatives of companies—and, indeed, representatives of the two devolved Governments. My first visit as Minister of State for Trade was to Scotland, to meet Derek Mackay, and I then went to Wales and met Baroness Morgan; our two counterparts. I have met with various representatives of trade organisations and employers’ organisations. We are listening widely. The idea that the hon. Lady seems to be advancing that we are sitting in Whitehall dreaming up schemes that are completely and totally divorced from reality—[Interruption.] If the hon. Member for Stockton North (Alex Cunningham) really thinks that—well, how many years has he been in the House? Come on.
We have our own advisory body, which we set up within the Department, and that has multiple employer groups, business and representatives of the regions and nations of the UK. We seek to inform ourselves as much as possible before these decisions are made.
James Cartlidge (South Suffolk) (Con)
I very much agree with my hon. Friend’s point that the best way out of this situation is to pass a deal and avoid a no-deal outcome. However, I recently met arable farmers in my constituency who are profoundly concerned that, if there were a no-deal outcome, they could face tariffs of €90 a tonne. That would make their surplus unexportable through the port of Ipswich, especially as we seem to be considering nil tariffs on foreign wheat and barley. Does my hon. Friend understand that, from their point of view, that is not unilateral free trade, but unilateral protectionism for overseas competition? Whatever happens in the schedule, I urge him please to remember to support the bread basket of England.
Conor Burns
I am grateful to my hon. Friend. I point him to the comment that I made twice in my first reply to the hon. Member for Nottingham East (Mr Leslie)—that this day-one tariff regime will apply for up to 12 months, and it will be reviewed during that time. We will be open-minded and open-eared to representations that are made to us. I would be happy to extend an invitation to people to meet me and to talk specifically about the point my hon. Friend made, which, if I may say so, he did robustly, as he always does, on behalf of those he represents.
Yvette Cooper (Normanton, Pontefract and Castleford) (Lab)
Fawcett in Castleford, which exports malt to Europe, has described the tariff arrangements it will face in the event of no deal as manufacturing suicide. Tereos in Normanton, which imports sugar, expects a 50% increase in its costs as a result of tariffs in the event of no deal. Will the Minister confirm that these tariffs are not just costs that can be mitigated away by preparations or border changes, and that these are real costs to industry? If he has done all this work on the possible impact of different tariff schedules, surely he has a responsibility to publish the full impact assessment alongside the tariff schedule.
Conor Burns
I indicated the tests this tariff regime is set against. It is set to try to protect the interests of consumers and producers in the UK, and it will be kept under review. It will go for up to 12 months. However, I stress again that the best way to avoid any of this happening is for us to come to an agreement in this House and with the EU, and to get a deal through and leave the European Union on 31 October in an orderly way. Then, this would become an academic exercise.
Richard Drax (South Dorset) (Con)
The Leader of the Opposition’s vision is for us to stay in the customs union. Does my hon. Friend not agree that that does not honour the result of the EU referendum?
Conor Burns
It will not come as an enormous surprise to my hon. Friend that I agree wholeheartedly. Indeed, at the time of the referendum, the Government, of which we were Back-Bench observers, spent over £9 million sending a leaflet to every home in this country making exactly that point.
Several hon. Members rose—
Ann Clwyd (Cynon Valley) (Lab)
One of the most successful exports from my constituency is Penderyn whisky, which comes from a small village in the Brecon Beacons. If the Minister went to Wales, he must have discussed the situation of an industry such as that with Baroness Morgan. Penderyn is obviously concerned about the impact on its export potential.
Conor Burns
I am incredibly grateful to the right hon. Lady, whom I hold in the highest regard, having worked with her on a couple of international issues. She almost invites me to trespass on the subject of the next urgent question on the potential imposition of tariffs by the United States on the whisky sector. I would be happy to respond to that question in detail during the course of my reply to that UQ, but the Government take this matter very seriously and will be working to try to persuade our friends and allies in the United States that the imposition of such tariffs is not the way to go, that they harm both of us, and that the best thing to do is to talk and come to a resolution.
Mr Speaker
I gently point out to the hon. Member for Na h-Eileanan an Iar (Angus Brendan MacNeil) that there is a later urgent question on a matter of which he has considerable knowledge and in which I think he will be interested. If the hon. Gentleman wishes to participate in that exchange, he will, of course, have the opportunity to do so, and the whole House and the nation will benefit from his eloquence.
Andrew Percy (Brigg and Goole) (Con)
Anybody with a ha’p’orth of understanding of the Canadian skill at negotiating trade deals should have foreseen in March, when we issued our day-one tariff schedules, that Canada would not sign a rollover for the comprehensive economic and trade agreement. As we move forward with these new schedules, will the Minister assure me that nothing in them will undermine the deal that the Canadian Government and the Canadian opposition both say they want to achieve? If we are unable to achieve that deal, will he assure me that the Department is beginning work on at least rolling over the provisions on labour mobility, which are so important when it comes to independent professionals and inter-company transfers?
Conor Burns
My hon. Friend yields to no one in his understanding of and expertise in Canada. I understand that not least because he never tires of telling us. I pay tribute to him for his work as the Prime Minister’s trade envoy. I am probably not allowed to say this at the Dispatch Box, but I hope that he will take up that position again in due course, because no one in this House is better qualified to do it. I am happy to confirm to my hon. Friend that we remain determined to come to terms with Canada. It is one of our closest allies, and we share so much in common in terms of values. A free trade agreement between us will be to the mutual benefit and prosperity of all our citizens.
Lady Hermon (North Down) (Ind)
Dairy Council Northern Ireland represents the four companies that account for over 90% of the milk collected from farms in Northern Ireland each year. We are talking about 3,000 farming families in Northern Ireland. I want the Minister to address the warning given by the chief executive of Dairy Council Northern Ireland, who said today:
“If we don't get a Brexit deal and cannot transport raw milk south, without significant delays and/or certification requirements, then our industry is facing a crisis of epic proportions”.
How will the Minister attempt to reassure dairy farmers in Northern Ireland?
Conor Burns
We are still seeking to come to terms and get a deal by 31 October. That is the Government’s ambition and, as the hon. Lady will know, I am more alive than most to the situation in Northern Ireland. The situation there is unique and complex, and I hope that our European friends would demonstrate some of the spirit of compromise that has been demonstrated in various parts of the House, including by Opposition Back Benchers, in helping us to get to that deal and to avoid the difficulties that she so rightly identifies.
Hywel Williams (Arfon) (PC)
Welsh farmers are still unclear as to how the Government intend to sustain Welsh farming, particularly the production of beef and lamb. Is it by long-term tariffs, is it by market-distorting subsidy, or is it by paying farmers to produce nothing at all?
Conor Burns
First, we still want a deal, and therefore we hope this does not come into play. I was in Vietnam only two days ago to push Welsh lamb to the Government there as we look to a deal, and that is just one of many places where we are looking for new export opportunities by removing barriers and doing free trade agreements. The Government are looking closely at how we would respond to protect such producer interests in the event of a no-deal situation, and I believe nothing is ruled out.
Gareth Snell (Stoke-on-Trent Central) (Lab/Co-op)
The Minister and his Department have been in consultation with the British Ceramic Confederation on the impact that zero tariffs could have on the ceramic industry, which would affect many of my constituents. Can the Minister give me an assurance that on day one, if we have a no-deal Brexit, which I genuinely do not want to see—I think a deal is the way forward—no anti-dumping legislation and no anti-dumping duty on Chinese goods will be less than it was the day before under the European scheme?
Conor Burns
Not only would I be very happy to meet the hon. Gentleman to discuss this in some detail, but I would be very happy if he felt minded to invite me to visit some of the ceramic manufacturing businesses in and around his constituency. I am sure that will have been heard by people who can make it happen.
Pete Wishart (Perth and North Perthshire) (SNP)
It is reckoned that a quarter of rural businesses may face bankruptcy if there is a no-deal Brexit and we see the expected tariff schedule. Dairy has now joined beef and lamb in expressing an existential threat. How many rural businesses does the Minister think will survive in my primarily rural constituency if we have a no deal?
Conor Burns
I hope the hon. Gentleman and his colleagues will help my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister and the Government by doing all they can to lobby our European friends and allies, and indeed Monsieur Barnier, to ensure that does not happen.
I hope the predictions of doom and gloom and bankruptcy that the hon. Gentleman makes again today prove as ill-founded as those he has made over the past three years.
Mr Clive Betts (Sheffield South East) (Lab)
I am sure the Minister will agree that certainty is important for business, so will he give a guarantee that, on 1 November, all the necessary systems and technical infrastructure will be in place for businesses to be able to deal with any tariffs that are imposed? Particularly for small businesses, how far in advance of 1 November will advice and guidance on these systems be available?
Conor Burns
I have indicated several times that I do not think hon. Members will have to wait too much longer for the publication of the schedule. The Government are working with incredible energy to put out the information that businesses need. It has been more than three years since the referendum, and businesses have had plenty of warning.
By the way, recent surveys indicate that the behaviour of this House has made it more likely that businesses will not put in place the necessary measures to prepare for the event of a no deal, because this House continues to send a signal that it intends to do all it can to thwart that.
Paul Girvan (South Antrim) (DUP)
Everyone seems to be interested in what is happening with Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland. Our farming industry has serious concerns about the tariffs that will potentially be imposed by Europe. As the hon. Member for North Down (Lady Hermon) said, milk is exported to the Republic of Ireland, where it is mainly processed, before being sent back. Milk will have no tariffs on the way back, but it will receive tariffs on the way into the Republic of Ireland.
Conor Burns
As I indicated to the hon. Member for North Down, I am acutely alive to these very serious challenges. I spent the first eight years of my life in Northern Ireland, so I understand it pretty well. The best way to avoid these challenges is to come to a deal.
By the way, the best way to have effective government in Northern Ireland is for all the parties in Northern Ireland to get back together and get back into government. Let us get a functioning Executive and a functioning Assembly that can truly speak at a local level for the people of Northern Ireland.
Alex Cunningham (Stockton North) (Lab)
The imposition of tariffs on the export of chemicals from Teesside will have a hugely detrimental effect on the region’s industry. That comes on the back of the decision by Ineos to close its plant, which is both a supplier and a customer within a complicated supply chain. What are Ministers doing about this additional threat to the chemical industry—over and above the tariffs—that will cost more than 220 direct jobs in my constituency, and potentially many more? Maybe the Minister could visit us, too.
Conor Burns
I always stand ready to visit colleagues from across the House and their constituencies, and their local businesses, to understand the background to commercial decisions that are being made. I am not particularly aware of the detail of that one, but, again, if the hon. Gentleman thinks it useful, I would be happy to have a meeting with him. It may be more appropriate for him to meet colleagues from the Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy, but I am very happy to talk to him.
Justin Madders (Ellesmere Port and Neston) (Lab)
I was approached by people from Stanlow oil refinery in Ellesmere Port over the summer as they were concerned about proposals to zero-rate certain petroleum imports. I therefore added my name to a cross-party letter from a number of Members whose constituencies were affected by those proposals warning the Secretary of State about the impact such proposals might have on the refinery sector. Will the Minister therefore assure us that these concerns have been listened to and the proposals will do nothing to impact the viability of the UK refinery sector?
Conor Burns
The issue of the refineries and how tariffs may have an impact there has been discussed and continues to be looked at closely at the heart of government. Those representations are having an impact and are being listened to carefully.
Conor Burns
Obviously, we do not consider that the imposition of the temporary tariff regime is, of itself, a good thing; we would much prefer to leave on 31 October with a deal. As I have explained, what these arrangements do is our level best to protect producers and, crucially, consumers in the event of a no-deal Brexit.
Jim Shannon
I thank the Minister for his responses. The Ulster Farmers Union has consistently stated that it has worries about tariffs—I declare an interest, as a member of the UFU. I know the Government and the Minister are well aware of the position of Northern Ireland lamb, beef, pig and chicken producers, and I am keen to know what discussions he has had with the UFU in order to support, assist and protect our farmers in Northern Ireland. In addition, have any discussions taken place with the Republic of Ireland?
Conor Burns
I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for that. I have not had direct talks with the UFU, but the voice of Northern Ireland is very effectively represented in government by the Secretary of State and the Minister of State, and the voice of Northern Ireland will always be heard when the hon. Gentleman is in this House.
Martin Docherty-Hughes
In the last hour, the President of the United States has tweeted:
“As I have stated strongly before, and just to reiterate, if Turkey does anything that I, in my great and unmatched wisdom, consider to be off limits, I will totally destroy and obliterate the Economy of Turkey (I’ve done before!).”
So I wonder whether the Minister can tell my constituents who are producing and bottling fine Scotch whisky—this is especially in relation to the next urgent question—whether these arrangements are to be used as leverage against the unmatched wisdom of the President of the United States in a future trade agreement of a no-deal Brexit?
Conor Burns
I am enormously grateful to the hon. Gentleman for that. As I said, this is my first appearance at this Dispatch Box, but my cursory knowledge of these matters is that one is accountable at this Box for things within one’s responsibility. However vast the portfolio that I have the honour to discharge, the tweets of the President of the United States were not in my job description the last time I checked.
Mr Speaker
Very deft, if I may say so. Some of us might think, on the basis of personal experience, that there is an unmatched wisdom in Nancy Pelosi, but there you go.
US Tariffs: Scotch Whisky
Conor Burns Excerpts(4 years, 6 months ago)
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David Mundell (Dumfriesshire, Clydesdale and Tweeddale) (Con)
(Urgent Question): I know that you always indulge a novice in these proceedings, Mr Speaker.
To ask the Secretary of State for International Trade to make a statement on what discussions Her Majesty’s Government have had with the US and EU, following the announcement by the United States trade representative of their intention to impose tariffs of 25% on single malt Scotch whisky and other UK products on 18 October.
Mr Speaker
Oh, the Minister is making a second performance at the Dispatch Box. Excellent.
Conor Burns
Thank you, Mr Speaker. I am grateful to my right hon. Friend for his question.
The United Kingdom continues to be a champion of the international rules-based order of which the World Trade Organisation is the cornerstone. However, the United Kingdom is clear that resorting to tariffs is in no one’s interests. Low tariffs and free trade underpin prosperity and jobs in the UK and globally, which is why we are pursuing an ambitious free trade agenda, lowering tariffs and quotas where possible and working on an ambitious package of bilateral free trade agreements.
The Government are disappointed by the United States Administration’s announcement that they intend to impose tariffs on the UK and our European partners following the most recent ruling. My right hon. Friend asks what communications there have been between the Government and the United States. We have continued to raise this issue at the highest levels; my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State has spoken to US Trade Representative Lighthizer, Commerce Secretary Ross and Vice-President Pence; my right hon. Friend the Chancellor has raised the issue of Airbus tariffs with the US Secretary of the Treasury; and the issue was raised by my right hon. Friend the Member for Maidenhead (Mrs May) with President Trump during his state visit to the United Kingdom in June this year.
The dispute has a long history; indeed, it goes back to 2004. I will not detain the House by setting out that history, but it is long and complex and has led to the WTO judgment. Although the UK, France, Germany and Spain took steps to bring their support into compliance with the WTO, the WTO ruled last year that further steps were required to bring that support fully into compliance. Following that ruling, the UK and other Airbus nations have now taken steps to bring their support fully into line. The Airbus nations are seeking confirmation from the WTO in the ongoing proceedings that those steps are sufficient to achieve compliance. A ruling is expected in the coming months.
However, WTO procedure allows for the US to seek authorisation to retaliate against the EU in parallel to the ongoing proceedings and before the WTO has confirmed whether the Airbus nations have now complied with their WTO obligations. On 2 October, the WTO announced that the US can be authorised to impose up to approximately $7.5 billion in tariffs annually. Following that, the US published a list of tariffs on the EU, targeting products produced by the Airbus nations and the wider EU. These measures are not in the interests of the UK, the European Union or the United States. Tariffs will only inflict damage on businesses and citizens on both sides of the Atlantic and harm global trade and the broader aviation industry at a sensitive time.
We are working closely with the US, the EU and our European partners to support a negotiated settlement to the Airbus dispute, along with the separate Boeing disputes. I reassure the House that we will continue to press the issue at the highest levels and urge the United States to withhold tariffs until the WTO has confirmed that we have complied in the compliance proceedings—something that we expect to happen within the next couple of months.
Single malt Scotch whisky has been tariff free with the United States for more than 25 years now, and whisky exports to the US are worth more than £1 billion annually. Single malt producers are often small and medium-sized companies, and the tariffs will hit those who can afford them least. We will continue to talk to the US at the highest levels to press for a settlement and for the US to hold off applying the tariffs until we have had time for a ruling.
David Mundell
I welcome the Minister to the Dispatch Box and thank him for his answer. I welcome the fact that this urgent question was chosen to be discussed, because the matter is urgent. There are 10 days left until the US proposes to introduce tariffs of 25% on Scotch malt whisky, which represents 60% of the UK-origin goods included on the list and 10% of the non-aviation goods from across Europe that are on the list. Curiously, products such as brandy and cognac from France are not included on the list.
As the Minister said, the US market is vital for the Scotch whisky industry, with a turnover of more than £1 billion. The distilleries involved in exporting malt to the United States are often small. They are often craft distilleries, whose establishment in recent years we particularly welcomed in Scotland. If tariffs are imposed, those industries will have to scale back their efforts in the United States. The industry estimates that there could be a loss of £228 million in revenue, and that 3,000 jobs, mainly in rural Scotland, could be affected by the proposals.
I want the Government to show even more urgency than they have done to date. There are two things that can be done immediately. First, the industry has made it clear that if the Government announce that when the UK leaves the EU on 31 October this year that they will not impose tariffs on bourbon or American whiskies, that would greatly help the dialogue with the United States.
Secondly, I know that the Minister has the close ear of the Prime Minister, and it is important that he urge him to intervene directly with President Trump. It was my duty to welcome President Trump to Scotland last year. During that event, he told me that he loved Scotland. If the Prime Minister could convey directly to President Trump the damage that the proposals would do to Scotland, particularly rural Scotland, that could have an impact. I would be pleased if the Minister confirmed that he would indeed urge the Prime Minister to make those representations.
Conor Burns
I am grateful to my right hon. Friend for those questions. He represents a powerful voice on behalf of the industry and the people of Scotland, along with my hon. Friends around him. It is not just whisky—but I will return to whisky in a second—it is pork, cheese and cashmere. There are a number of areas that will be harmed by the tariffs. Earlier this afternoon, I spoke to Karen Betts, chief executive of the Scottish Whisky Association, who is in South Africa. It is a measure of her concern that she took time out of her schedule to talk to me. The Government are enormously sympathetic, and as I said in my answer, we would urge the United States—tariffs are not in place, and there are 10 days before they are introduced, as my right hon. Friend said—to think again. These tariffs are in no one’s interest. The President of the United States prides himself on being the champion of the little guy, the little business. Well, it is the little business and the little guy who will be harmed most directly if the tariffs come into play.
I can entirely understand my right hon. Friend urging the Government to adjust section 232 countermeasures by removing the tariff on bourbon. We believe in the international rules-based order. It would be the easiest thing in the world simply to say to him, “Yes, we are going to do that.” However, while we remain a member of the European Union, we have to comply with the rules of the European Union. What I would say to him is that when we leave the European Union, nothing is off the table.
Barry Gardiner (Brent North) (Lab)
I welcome the urgent question asked by the right hon. Member for Dumfriesshire, Clydesdale and Tweeddale (David Mundell). I welcome, too, the measured tone of the Minister’s response, the factual information that he provided at the Dispatch Box and his support for the international rules-based order.
It is no secret that the American President has sought to define his Administration as one of trade warfare, seeking to put the interests of America first and to repatriate jobs and industry to the USA. He believes that a trade war is one that the US can win. Does the Minister agree that no one wins in a trade war? That much is clear from the spurious Boeing case against the importation of C Series aircraft and the use of section 232 national security measures to prevent steel and aluminium exports to the US, and now again in respect of automotive imports.
The concern for British exporters is that the recent findings of the WTO in relation to aircraft subsidies will be used to secure an advantage for American producers and for American interests in any future trade agreement between our nations. The US trade representative has been clear that the US will impose countermeasures in the first instance and will seek to discuss how to resolve this dispute with the EU thereafter
“in a way that will benefit American workers”.
Other European leaders have been clear in their condemnation of the measures, but our Government have been decidedly more reserved, perhaps for fear of jeopardising any future trade talks. I note in the Government’s response published last week that the UK was seeking clarification from the WTO that the UK was compliant with measures regarding subsidies to Airbus, so I ask the Minister when he expects that such confirmation will be given and whether this indicates a divergence from the EU response.
Many products that these tariffs are being imposed on are subject to geographical indications, which are awarded under trade agreements to protect products of cultural heritage. It is no surprise that these products have been targeted first, as American producers of rival products have made no secret of their desire to destroy such protections. Does the Minister agree that this is not just about responding to the subsidies ruling, but about undermining and eliminating competition in favour of US producers who have long sought to do away with product labelling requirements, restrictive geographical indicators, and even sanitary and phytosanitary standards? Does he agree that going after some of our most iconic products is part of that strategy?
The Scotch whisky exports from this country amount to £6 billion a year—21% of all our food and drink exports, and 41 bottles a second. That is faster than I can drink it! Scotch whisky is so important to our exports. In fact, I think it is our third largest export, so the Government need to do all they can to protect it. These measures come at a time when the UK Prime Minister still insists that we could have a no-deal Brexit in a matter of days—a scenario under which substantial tariffs could be imposed on our exports to the EU. That would be a double whammy for British producers.
The impact of these tariffs on our biggest markets would be enormous, particularly for products such as Scotch whisky. No amount of new trade agreements overseas could mitigate that imminent threat. The EU is understood to be exploring what position to take in respect of these new tariffs. What role will the Minister’s officials be taking in those discussions, given our pending withdrawal?
Conor Burns
I am grateful to the shadow Secretary of State for his support; I think this is a relatively rare but very welcome moment where there will be an outbreak of consensus across the House.
The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right to highlight the importance of the Scotch whisky industry to the UK. Whisky is the UK’s biggest single agrifood export, accounting for more than 21% of all UK food and drink exports. In 2018, exports of all whisky from the UK totalled £4.8 billion, of which the Scotch Whisky Association claims £4.7 billion is Scotch whisky. Scotch whisky is the biggest single contributor to the UK balance of trade in goods, and the largest single market for UK exports of all whisky—not just Scotch whisky—by value is the United States, which imported more than £1 billion-worth in 2018 or a volume of 84,791 tonnes.
Beyond that, a further £268 million is injected into the economy through the supply chain, leading to a UK-wide impact of just under £5 billion. Some 40,000 jobs are directly supported by the Scotch whisky industry, 7,000 of which are in rural areas of Scotland. This is an absolutely vital sector to the United Kingdom and one that we are determined to do everything we can to protect.
The shadow Secretary of State will have heard me say to Mr Speaker earlier that the dispute that has led to these threatened tariffs in 10 days’ time is a very long and complex one and is being governed by the investigations at the WTO. It is regrettable, although we accept it, that we were found not to be in compliance and the WTO has given the United States permission to go down this route.
The hon. Gentleman asked me about our belief that we are now completely compliant and have taken the remedial measures necessary to bring ourselves into compliance in this dispute. We hope that that will happen within the next couple of months. We are pressing the WTO for an early decision on that, because the evidence base on this stuff is incredibly important, particularly in our conversations with the United States.
I am anxious this afternoon to dial down the atmosphere and not engage in deep personal attacks on people in other countries. The hon. Gentleman was very restrained, and rightly so, in what he said. We want to keep it on the issues. We think that the proposed tariff is unfair, wrong and unjust, and if we can demonstrate that we are now in compliance in this very long-running dispute and have taken the necessary measures, I hope that we can engage calmly with the United States.
I hope the hon. Gentleman will agree that one of the reasons why the United Kingdom is so internationally necessary, and why our taking up our position again in the WTO when we leave the EU is a good thing and is widely welcomed internationally, is that we believe in the international rules-based order. We believe that any fair, reasoned, rational observer who looks at this will conclude that these tariffs are unjust, unfair and wrong and are targeting people who have done absolutely nothing in terms of the dispute that has given birth to these retaliatory measures. I hope that, with constructive engagement and calm dialogue, we may persuade the United States to think again.
Douglas Ross (Moray) (Con)
Mr Speaker, as you know from my application for an urgent question on this subject today, my constituency is severely affected by the announcements from the US last week. Moray is home to 40% of all Scotch whisky distilleries, as well as a sector that has not been mentioned so far: the biscuit industry. Some 50% of biscuits exported to the US are Scottish shortbread. Moray is home to Walkers of Aberlour, and when I spoke to Jim Walker earlier this afternoon, he wanted me to stress that figure. I met Lewis Maclean of Maclean’s Highland bakery in Forres on Friday, who expressed his concerns for his sector as well.
Can the Minister update the House on what steps the Government will take over the next 10 days to try to stop these tariffs taking effect from 18 October, which feeds into the important Christmas market? I also reiterate the point that a zero tariff on bourbon and American whiskey when we leave the European Union would send the strongest possible message to the US that the UK is on its side, and it should take away these tariffs?
Conor Burns
I am grateful to my hon. Friend, who is a doughty champion for his constituents and the commercial interests in his constituency. I was aware of the presence of Walkers Shortbread in his constituency and the fact that it exports more than £29 million a year and is a significant local employer. Before coming to the House, I asked for a list of all Members who represent Scottish constituencies and how many distilleries they have in their constituency. I was more than surprised to find that my hon. Friend has a significant number—I think more than 40—in his constituency, which makes the following offer very easy to make: I would be delighted to visit him in his constituency and see some of those distilleries, and perhaps also Walkers Shortbread.
As for what we can do to get this message across, the United States ambassador to the UK, Ambassador Johnson, is known to many of us, and he is known to be very close to President Trump. I encourage all Members across the House to contact the American ambassador and make him aware of the strength of feeling on this subject in this House and across the country.
Brendan O’Hara (Argyll and Bute) (SNP)
As the Minister will find out, it is quality rather than quantity that counts when it comes to Scotch whisky. As the chair of the all-party parliamentary group on Scotch whisky, I have no doubt that these tariffs will have a hugely negative impact on one of our most important, successful and growing industries. The Scotch whisky industry employs 11,000 people directly. I encourage UK Ministers to do everything they can to resolve this as quickly as possible, because it is in no one’s interests to have a trade war like this, where everybody will almost inevitably end up on the losing side and jobs, confidence and future investment will be affected. I fear that these tariffs will disproportionately impact on the small independent distilleries, of which there are many in my Argyll and Bute constituency and, indeed, across the economically fragile, rural parts of Scotland.
The Minister listed a number of conversations that have been had, but I would like him to clarify what conversations have taken place since Thursday with both the EU and the United States? Is it not the case that a post-Brexit, isolated UK would have much less negotiating power than it currently has as part of one of the world’s largest trade blocs when it comes to fending off someone like Donald Trump?
Conor Burns
I am going to resist the temptation to launch on the last point. Tempting as it is, I would rather try to keep a degree of consensus on the issue, but I would say this to the hon. Gentleman. He opened by saying that it is quality, not quantity, that counts. I think that has been the cry of many down the generations. A trade war would be in no one’s interests: there will be no winners in a trade war. The thing that I think agitates and upsets us most about this, as I said earlier, is that those who have done absolutely nothing in the Airbus-Boeing dispute, with the rights and wrongs on both sides, and people who have had absolutely nothing to do with that, going back so many years, will now be hurt and harmed if these tariffs come into play. We will continue to use every opportunity to convey to our friends in the United States that this is—
Conor Burns
I am not sure that it is helpful to have a running commentary on everything that is being said. I think those who are employed in distilleries in the hon. Gentleman’s constituency would be much more interested in what the Government are trying to do to get a successful outcome. I have told the hon. Gentleman and the House the exchanges and the conversations there have been, and those will continue. We are determined to use the next 10 days to try to persuade our friends in the United States that this is the wrong way to go.
John Lamont (Berwickshire, Roxburgh and Selkirk) (Con)
The decision by the US affects other iconic Scottish industries, such as cashmere and textiles. We have a long tradition in my constituency in the borders, and both Hawico and Johnstons in Hawick have been in touch with me in recent days, expressing severe concerns about the impact that these tariffs are going to have on their American business. Can the Minister assure me that textiles and cashmere are on his radar, and that he will be trying to find a solution for those sectors too? If no solution can be found by 18 October, will the Government consider compensating those businesses for the duties and tariffs they are going to have to pay out?
Conor Burns
I am very grateful to my hon. Friend, and I am happy to reassure him by reiterating the comments I made to our right hon. Friend the Member for Dumfriesshire, Clydesdale and Tweeddale (David Mundell) about cashmere and other product lines. This is not confined to Scotch whisky, although Scotch whisky will obviously dominate the coverage of this because it is such an iconic Scottish, and indeed British, brand. It is known everywhere, and only two days ago in Vietnam we were having conversations about the labelling of imports of Scotch whisky through third countries and how that was leading to an increase in illicit sales of Scotch whisky products. Diageo has been very vigorous in lobbying the Government on that and other related issues. We are absolutely determined to support this sector, and indeed the other sectors that my hon. Friend quite rightly highlighted.
Mr Alistair Carmichael (Orkney and Shetland) (LD)
Knitwear is something that defines Shetland in the eyes of many across the world. Just in the last week, we have seen visitors coming to the isles from right around the globe as part of an enormously successful Shetland Wool Week—especially coming from the United States of America. Does the Minister understand that the damage that will be caused by tariffs of this sort is not just about manufacturing and exports, but about tourism? The communities that rely on our defining products, such as Scotch whisky and knitwear, are some of the smallest and most economically fragile to be found anywhere, and jobs that are lost there will not be easily replaced.
Conor Burns
I could not agree more with the right hon. Gentleman. Knitwear from his part of Scotland is a small but very well-known British-Scottish-UK brand. He is absolutely correct to suggest that if the tariffs did come in and those sole traders, partnerships or companies with two or three people working together folded, it would be unlikely that they would come back. They are a very precious part of our heritage and this microeconomy would be lost, which is why we will do everything we can to persuade the US to think again.
Mr Speaker
The hon. Gentleman loses no opportunity. Why will it not be a surprise to right hon. and hon. Members to be reminded that his successful business career was as an estate agent? [Laughter.]
Conor Burns
I am very grateful to my hon. Friend. Sparking a debate on what constitutes whisky is something I would not wish to do on my first outing at the Dispatch Box, Mr Speaker. I see some friends from Northern Ireland, although I am sure it has never touched the lips of the hon. Member for North Antrim (Ian Paisley). Coming from Northern Ireland as I do, I know that some very fine whiskey is made there. I make this undertaking to my hon. Friend the Member for Thirsk and Malton (Kevin Hollinrake): the Government will protect and promote whisky that is produced in all parts of the United Kingdom.
Ian Paisley (North Antrim) (DUP)
Bushmills is, of course, the only Irish whiskey made in the United Kingdom, and therefore the only British whiskey with an “e” in it, making it the most excellent whiskey in the whole of the United Kingdom. No doubt when the Minister was in his boyhood in Ballycastle he would have sampled the angel’s share of that product. Can he confirm the proportion of product sold by the Bushmills distillery that are blends with other whiskey products from the Republic of Ireland? Can he confirm that they will therefore be zero-rated for all future sales? Given that that will then create an unlevel playing field, will he ensure that the same advantage rests with single malt whiskey made in Bushmills?
Conor Burns
As the hon. Gentleman knows, these tariffs relate to single malt whisky products. I can say to him that I have visited Bushmills many times and that I am a fan of Bushmills whiskey. The old inn at Bushmills is among the finest places to stay anywhere in the United Kingdom. His father and my grandfather shared something in common: they never drank at all. I did not follow my grandfather’s example. I am sure he followed his father’s.
John Redwood (Wokingham) (Con)
As the UK Government are rightly considering lowering some tariffs on food and drink products once we leave the EU, what opportunity will there be to get some benefit or leverage out of that spontaneous reduction?
Conor Burns
As my right hon. Friend knows, we are determined to take full advantage of the opportunities of leaving the European Union. We believe, as a Government and as a party, that low tariffs, preferably no tariffs, are mutually beneficial to us and to countries with whom we do business. Free trade creates jobs, prosperity and wealth. We have to continue to articulate that case, particularly to our friends in the United States who are normally free market in outlook and light touch in regulation, and who mirror our basic political philosophy. A trade war benefits nobody, not least those we are elected to serve.
Ann Clwyd (Cynon Valley) (Lab)
Many years ago, Mr Speaker, when Mr Speaker Weatherill sat in your Chair, I was taking part in a filibuster and I mentioned Penderyn whisky at length. As a result, Mr Speaker Weatherill said that he would very much like to sample it, and I believe that he was sent several bottles. Earlier, the Minister asked me to return to the question of what will happen to Penderyn whisky—obviously, he wants to give me more information than he was able to during the previous urgent question. I repeat: Penderyn whisky is from a small distillery in my constituency on the edge of the Brecon Beacons. It is an important employer in an area of still high unemployment and it is very important that it is protected.
Conor Burns
The right hon. Lady makes a very powerful case. As I have said a number of times at this Dispatch Box in answer to several hon. and right hon. Members, we believe that it is terribly unfair that the small producer will be caught in the crossfire of a dispute in which they had no part and no part in making. I am very happy to meet her to talk particularly about her local employer and hear its local arguments, and she must feel under absolutely no obligation to come to that meeting with any whisky from her local producer.
Kirstene Hair (Angus) (Con)
I welcome the Minister’s commitment to trying to protect the industries that could be affected if these tariffs come into place. I also welcome the UK Government’s commitment—specifically, when there are an additional 12 Scottish Conservative MPs—on support for the spirits industry across Scotland and in Angus. I ask him for reassurances that in an upcoming Budget, he will look carefully at the spirits industry as a whole and other industries that would be affected were these tariffs to come into play on 18 October.
Conor Burns
I congratulate my hon. Friend on yet another demonstration of what a powerful advocate she is for those who put their trust in her to serve as their Member of Parliament. I said earlier that the tweets of the President of the United States were slightly beyond my remit. I am afraid that the Chancellor’s next Budget falls into a similar but not distinct category, but I am sure that she will make that point very powerfully to our right hon. Friend, and that it will receive a warm welcome.
David Hanson (Delyn) (Lab)
Airbus Industries will be heavily impacted by the decision last week. Has the Minister raised this issue with Airbus since Thursday, and has he raised with the United States ambassador the 275,000 jobs that are provided by Airbus in 40 states in America, as well as the thousands in my constituency and across the whole north-west?
Conor Burns
I have not yet had the opportunity to raise this issue directly with Airbus, but I have put out a call to the American ambassador. As I hope the right hon. Gentleman will understand, the reason that I have not yet had the opportunity to talk directly to Airbus is that I returned to the UK only late last night after a visit last week to Vietnam. When I came into the office, I spoke to the chief executive of the Scotch Whisky Association and I reached out to our counterparts in Scotland and Wales. Such conversations will be happening urgently in the course of this week.
Margot James (Stourbridge) (Ind)
I welcome my hon. Friend’s respect for the rules-based international order, but does he share my concern that the US, under this President, has by contrast ridden roughshod over multilateral institutions and agreements? This President has made it abundantly clear that he views trade negotiations simply as a means of reducing US trade deficits, subverting the rules of the WTO whenever they get in his way.
Conor Burns
I am very keen that we do not try to personalise this as a dispute between the United Kingdom and the person of the President of the United States. The relationship between the UK and the US is one between two great nations and two historical allies. It is the case that the United Kingdom continues to take strongly the view that we should uphold the international rules-based order. We see the WTO as a very important part of regulating and acting as a fair and impartial arbiter in international trade disputes. We have already said publicly that we do not think that the WTO is perfect and that we would welcome some reform—in particular, to increase the speed at which dispute resolution takes place. We will continue to engage with our counterparts in the United States, and we hope that we can persuade them that these are damaging measures that should not happen. There was chuntering when I said that I would continue to reach out during the course of this week—I mean by tomorrow, but I cannot guarantee that people will answer the phone.
Mr Paul Sweeney (Glasgow North East) (Lab/Co-op)
Every bottle of Bowmore, Laphroaig, Ardmore, Glen Garioch and Auchentoshan malts are vatted, bottled and packaged by 200 skilled workers in Springburn in my constituency, so the impact of this could be devastating for that workforce. However, what was clear to me from a recent visit there was the symbiotic relationship between the Scotch whisky industry and the American bourbon industry, not least, brands such as Maker’s Mark and Jim Beam, because the casks are used to mature those Scotch whiskies. Will the Minister impress upon his counterparts in America that this is a mutually destructive measure by the American Government and that they ought to consider the impact that it will have on not just British industry, but American industry?
Conor Burns
The hon. Gentleman, if I may say so—[Interruption.] I am sure that Scottish National party Members would like to listen to the reply, because the hon. Gentleman made an excellent point that I had not thought of before. I welcome what he said and I would be very interested in talking to him more about that because that could be a very fruitful line of discussion between us and the United States. Perhaps we could have a conversation about that this week.
Bill Grant (Ayr, Carrick and Cumnock) (Con)
Will my hon. Friend advise me what steps the UK Government are taking to help to broker a negotiated settlement between the EU and the United States on what is essentially a long-standing issue regarding airplane manufacture between Boeing and Airbus, thus avoiding damaging tariffs for companies such as William Grant & Sons in Girvan, in close proximity to Trump Turnberry, and on cashmere produced by Begg & Co. of Ayr?
Conor Burns
My hon. Friend asks an excellent question. I have articulated what we are trying to do: first, to persuade the United States not to act in the timeframe that they have set out; and secondly, to work with our friends and colleagues in the European Union to press the WTO to come to judgment on the Airbus/Boeing case and our compliance with the judgment as quickly as possible, so that we can move on from this and get back to proper free trade. In terms of the textile and whisky companies that my hon. Friend mentioned, we are acutely aware of that and they have our support.
Emma Little Pengelly (Belfast South) (DUP)
As my hon. Friend the Member for North Antrim (Ian Paisley) outlined, Bushmills whiskey is defined internationally as Irish whiskey. Is the Minister aware that the Republic of Ireland seems to have negotiated an opt-out for its single malt Irish whiskey? Did he or the Department engage in renegotiations to try to get an opt-out for whiskies from the UK, and how does he intend to catch up with the Republic of Ireland on this issue?
Conor Burns
We want to deal with the macro on this issue. These are very bad tariffs that we believe have no foundation. We believe that they are wrong and profoundly unhelpful, and we believe that they undermine the whole concept of free trade and will damage people who are producing and employing. I would rather go down the route of trying to persuade our American friends to abandon this entire series of tariff attacks and look at the issue calmly and reasonably based on the current facts, not ancient dispute, than seeking to try to get an opt-out in some way, which in a sense would legitimise the underpinning of something that we consider to be wrong.
Luke Graham (Ochil and South Perthshire) (Con)
Whisky is an enormous employer in Ochil and South Perthshire, from Glenturret to Tullibardine to Diageo. They employ thousands of people across the constituency. What is my hon. Friend doing to limit the impact on the broader supply chain that will affect not only my constituency, but Scottish and northern English farmers? Will he join me and the rest of the Scottish Conservatives’ campaign for the Treasury to continue to freeze spirit duty in the next Budget to ensure that there is not a double hit for our producers in Scotland?
Conor Burns
I congratulate and salute my colleagues representing Scottish constituencies. To weave into this, my debut performance at the Dispatch Box, the writing of the Chancellor’s Budget shows a degree of ingenuity I welcome. I will certainly make representations on behalf of my hon. Friends, who serve the people of Scotland so well, about what the Chancellor can do in his Budget to help protect this sector.
Justin Madders (Ellesmere Port and Neston) (Lab)
As my right hon. Friend the Member for Delyn (David Hanson) said, Airbus is a huge employer on both sides of the north Wales border, so when the Minister has his conversations will he emphasise that point and the point that the United States employs a significant number of people in the same industry?
Conor Burns
The hon. Gentleman makes a powerful point, and he makes it well, and he is correct.
Ross Thomson (Aberdeen South) (Con)
I warmly welcome my good friend to the Dispatch Box—he is doing a great job—and if he wants to visit Aberdeen on his way up to Moray, he will be more than welcome. Can he give a commitment that in future trade talks with the US his Department will prioritise the export market for the great iconic Scottish whisky industry, and does he agree that as we leave the EU we have the opportunity to open up new and growing markets, such as India and Taiwan?
Conor Burns
I entirely agree with my hon. Friend, who serves his constituents in Aberdeen so effectively. Absolutely, that will be the case when we start our discussions and negotiations with the United States. I chaired a trade discussion with the Taiwanese last week, before I went to Vietnam, and I was struck by how incredibly interested they were in growing the sector. Asia is a massive growth market for Scottish whisky. We are also determined to seek to remove some of the tariff and non-tariff barriers to other markets in the Asian region.
David Linden (Glasgow East) (SNP)
The Minister said he did not want to personalise this, but even with a small urban constituency I have a maturation warehouse, a bottling plant and three cooperages. If the UK has such a special relationship with the US, why does the Prime Minister not just pick up the phone to Donald Trump and tell him to drop these ridiculous tariffs?
Conor Burns
I have no doubt that the Prime Minister, the next time he speaks to the President of the United States, will want to express his disappointment and concern at these measures and will urge the President to invite his Administration to think again. I say to all right hon. and hon. Members, however, that if our shared goal is not seeing these tariffs implemented in 10 days’ time, I am far from convinced that the best way of achieving that outcome is to personally attack the President of the United States.
Andrew Bowie (West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine) (Con)
It is not often I say this, but I completely agree with the hon. Member for Argyll and Bute (Brendan O'Hara): it is about quality, not quantity. I represent Scotland’s two finest distilleries, Royal Lochnagar and Fettercairn, and I think the Minister hit the nail on the head. My Scottish Conservative colleagues have mentioned the possible quid pro quo of removing the bourbon tariff in exchange for removing the 25% Scotch malt whisky tariff being imposed by President Trump. Can he confirm whether that suggestion has been made to the United States, and if it has, how did it go down?
Conor Burns
I can confirm to yet another powerful advocate for the Scottish interest on the Conservative Benches that I am not aware that that has been put to the United States. As I said to my right hon. Friend the Member for Dumfriesshire, Clydesdale and Tweeddale (David Mundell), we are either a believer in the rules-based international order or we are not. We are still currently a member of the EU, and we have to comply with the rules of that institution as long as we are in it. I do not think that to do something unilaterally on bourbon at this time would be right. However, as I made clear to my right hon. Friend, when we have left the EU, if we have not resolved this, the Government do not take any option off the table.
Martin Whitfield (East Lothian) (Lab)
The Glenkinchie distillery, in my constituency, has been around since 1837 and is the finest lowland distillery in Scotland. Can the Minister confirm that, if we were to leave the EU, the US tariffs would not automatically fall but would indeed continue? To quote the advice of a former President to a former Prime Minister during the banana trade wars, politicians in America do not seem to have a lot of control over this. Who is the Minister reaching out to in the US beyond the immediate politicians to secure a revocation of the tariffs, hopefully before they are imposed?
Conor Burns
Ultimately, these are decisions for the United States Administration, which is why my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State has reached out to her counterpart, why the Chancellor has reached out to his, and why my right hon. Friend the Member for Maidenhead (Mrs May) raised these points when President Trump was here over the summer. As I said in answer to a previous question, I am sure my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister will want to make this point directly to the President the next time they speak. I say to all right hon. and hon. Members, however, that we are not bystanders in this process; we are participants, and everyone in the House has a perfect right—indeed, an obligation, if they have an interest in this—to make their views known to the United States ambassador in the United Kingdom, who will then be able to convey them back to his Administration at home.
David Duguid (Banff and Buchan) (Con)
As well as the many distillers across Scotland, including the two wonderful distilleries in my constituency, Macduff and Glenglassaugh, the news of these tariff proposals will concern the many thousands of people involved in the Scotch whisky supply chain, including the farmers in my constituency who produce the finest malting barley for the Scotch whisky sector. Can my hon. Friend assure me that the UK Government will safeguard the interests of barley growers and all those who may be indirectly affected by these tariffs, in addition to the distillers?
Conor Burns
I pointed out in a previous answer—to the shadow Minister, I think—the degree of reliance on the Scots whisky sector within the supply chain. That supply chain adds enormous value to the UK economy, and hundreds if not thousands of jobs depend on it, so I am very happy to give my hon. Friend that undertaking.
Christine Jardine (Edinburgh West) (LD)
I cannot boast any of the fine distilleries that other hon. Members have mentioned, but I do have a bottling plant with American connections and the global headquarters of Diageo, one of the world’s largest producers of spirits—indeed, the producer of the single biggest selling spirit in the world—and they will not be immune to this tariff. Does the Minister share our concern that this latest dispute with the United States simply illustrates the position we might be in if we leave the EU and depend entirely on the WTO—the very organisation that okayed these tariffs today?
Conor Burns
We should be under no illusion: in this respect, the WTO was doing its job. We were found not to have abided by the rules. In a sense, the WTO is obliged to allow the sanctions. As I have said repeatedly, the great sadness—the great sense of unfairness and foul play—is that the people who will be targeted, some of whom could be destroyed commercially, if the tariffs are implemented in 10 days’ time had nothing to do with the dispute where we were found not to have done the right thing. The best way to guarantee free trade is proper bilateral free trade agreements between us and other countries, and that is why we want a comprehensive free trade agreement with the EU and a deal that allows us to leave in an orderly way on 31 October.
Sir Hugo Swire (East Devon) (Con)
I congratulate my hon. Friend on his debut at the Dispatch Box. If he goes on like this, it will not be long before he is presenting the Budget, and he will have a chance to sip the devil’s buttermilk as he does so.
My hon. Friend is absolutely right to say that America is the largest market for Scotch whisky. What other levers can he pull to promote whisky in the emerging markets of Asia and further afield—for instance by using the efforts of the GREAT campaign? This is a real opportunity to push our whiskies into other markets.
Perhaps you should lead by example, Mr Speaker. Mr Speaker’s 10-year-old single malt sells for £29 a bottle, which is a remarkable increase on what it retailed for 10 years ago. Perhaps as your parting shot, Sir, you should immediately commission, as a gesture of confidence in the Scotch whisky business, a new bottle of Speaker Bercow’s brew.
Conor Burns
I am incredibly grateful to my right hon. Friend. Indeed, having served as his Parliamentary Private Secretary from August 2010 for, I think, a couple of years, I now model myself on him, having watched his deft performances at the Dispatch Box from a position behind him.
My right hon. Friend is absolutely right about the growing interest in Scotch whisky around the world. As I have said, the Taiwanese market has been discussed several times in Vietnam in the last few days. I wonder whether my right hon. Friend might be on to something. Perhaps we should tie it to the GREAT campaign, and perhaps we should invite our new prime ministerial trade envoys in the beefed-up programme to make this a priority.
Scotch whisky is genuinely one of those international iconic brands. It is up there with Rolls-Royce, and all the other brands that are instinctively recognised as British. It is as well known as Buckingham Palace or, indeed, this very building, and it is integral to our promotion of ourselves as global Britain.
Mr Speaker
The right hon. Member for East Devon (Sir Hugo Swire) justifiably feels great pride in his protégé—the person whom, in fact, I might describe as his mentee. The mentoring skills have clearly had their impact.
Gareth Snell (Stoke-on-Trent Central) (Lab/Co-op)
Although Stoke-on-Trent does not make Scotch whisky, Wade Ceramics makes the ceramic bottles in which whisky is sold all over the world. In a similar vein to the hon. Member for Ochil and South Perthshire (Luke Graham), may I impress on the Minister that the supply chain for this product may be deeply impacted, and I ask what conversations he or the Government are having with the representatives of that supply chain to pass on in the negotiations, which I know they will welcome protecting their interests?
Conor Burns
As this session evolves, I am becoming ever more impressed by the ingenuity of colleagues who want us to write Budgets and also to raise the position of other sectors. I mentioned the supply chain a couple of times earlier, and we talked about the ceramics sector during the urgent question on the day one tariffs policy. We absolutely recognise the importance of that, and I am always willing to meet the hon. Gentleman and other representatives of the sector to discuss what more the Government can do to support it.
James Cartlidge (South Suffolk) (Con)
My hon. Friend is absolutely right—we should not engage in personal attacks on the President, but is it not nevertheless a strategic concern for us that we are seeing an Administration who appear to have a remarkable proclivity for protectionism? Does that not underline the fact that we as a nation need to be a champion of free trade, and that as we negotiate our exit from the EU we will have to have practical powers and instruments at our disposal, so that we can be that champion of free trade in practice?
Conor Burns
The answer to the second part of my hon. Friend’s question is yes, absolutely, we must remain a champion of free trade, and that we will do. The answer to the first part of his question is that we have to deal with the world as it is. The greatest strategic interest that we have—that the House has, that the Government have—is to try to persuade the United States not to implement these tariffs in 10 days’ time, and thereby to protect the Scotch whisky industry.
Joanna Cherry (Edinburgh South West) (SNP)
I must say that it is wonderful to hear a UK Government Minister recognise the enormous value that Scotch adds to the UK economy. I hope he will remember that next time his colleagues try to suggest that the Scottish economy is some kind of basket case.
The North British Distillery, which is in my constituency, is one of Scotland’s oldest and largest grain whisky producers, and is a very important employer in Edinburgh South West. While this tariff is of course aimed at single malts, it is a worrying indication of how the US Government may treat iconic Scottish food and drink products in any trade negotiation. As my hon. Friend the Member for Glasgow East (David Linden) suggested, if the Prime Minister’s alleged good offices with President Trump cannot resolve this problem, what hope is there for future trade negotiations outside the EU?
Conor Burns
After—how long has it been?—quite a long time during which we have enjoyed such wonderful consensus, I fear that we have now entered the press release-writing section of this urgent question.
No Conservative Member would ever speak of the Scottish economy in such denigrating terms. It is, in fact, because of our respect for the people of Scotland and the Scottish economy that Government Members passionately believe in Scotland’s integral place as a part of the United Kingdom. It is we who passionately believe that we are better together, and it is we who passionately believe that the best interests of the Scottish people are served by membership of this United Kingdom. It is this Government, serving every part of the United Kingdom, who will do all that we can to protect that sector, and to protect whisky producers in every part of this country. But if the hon. and learned Lady, who has taken some time off from her court cases to come here today, genuinely believes that the best way of resolving this dispute is to attack and denigrate personally the President of the United States, I think that shows how naive she is.
Stephen Kerr (Stirling) (Con)
Let me confirm to the Minister that no Scottish Conservative considers Scotland’s economy to be a basket case. What an insult that was from the hon. and learned Member for Edinburgh South West (Joanna Cherry). However, I am concerned about the single malt distillers in Stirling, namely Deanston and Glengoyne: I am anxious that they should be able to continue to prosper. Is one of the options that the Government might pursue in their representations to the United States that this date of 18 October might be postponed a little, to allow us some time in which to continue negotiations?
Conor Burns
As I have indicated on a couple of occasions, the Government think that the way to move forward is to ask our friends and allies in the United States not to implement these tariffs within the timeline that they are proposing, to work with the EU and the other countries within it which are affected by the Airbus-Boeing dispute and are therefore subject to these tariffs, to secure a judgment from the WTO that confirms that we are now compliant, and to talk to the United States about how we can withdraw the tariffs and allow a sector that is vital to us and to the United States to proceed unimpeded.
Ben Lake (Ceredigion) (PC)
This announcement has put the hard reality of trade disputes into sharp relief, but may I ask the Minister whether the tariff also applies to Welsh single malt whisky, such as that produced by Dà Mhìle Distillery in my constituency? In the harmonised tariff schedule published by the United States Government, the relevant subheading and description refer only to Irish and Scotch whisky.
Conor Burns
My understanding is that that applies to the whole United Kingdom, but I shall be happy to check and to write to the hon. Gentleman tomorrow.
Paul Masterton (East Renfrewshire) (Con)
There is a huge sense of frustration in the Scotch whisky industry and, indeed, among other spirits manufacturers about the fact that several European spirits were not included in the list, and that they are being treated as collateral damage in a trade dispute that has nothing to do with them. As we move forward, what steps will the Government take to try to de-escalate trade disputes more generally, so that situations such as this do not continue to arise?
Conor Burns
As I have said several times, one of the great frustrations about this particular case is the fact that the Boeing-Airbus dispute goes back a long way. It was found that we had not behaved appropriately, hence the judgment. We would like to see reform of the World Trade Organisation to accelerate the dispute resolution process through the WTO so that the situation does not arise again, but we would also like to try to decouple that dispute and those judgments from this sector and other sectors that will be affected. We do not think that these tariffs are just; we think that they are wrong, and we want to work with our friends in the United States to try to persuade them not to implement them.
Pete Wishart (Perth and North Perthshire) (SNP)
I am surprised at the Minister’s tetchy and defensive response to the gentle questioning from my hon. Friend the Member for Argyll and Bute (Brendan O’Hara). All he was asking was how many meetings the Minister had had in the past five days since this was announced. His ill-mannered friend the Under-Secretary of State for International Trade, the hon. Member for Beverley and Holderness (Graham Stuart), suggested that there would be meetings tomorrow. The Minister himself has hinted that his phone calls will not be received or secured. He is a Minister of the Crown, for goodness’ sake! Get on with it! Make sure you are speaking to them! Get this sorted!
Conor Burns
I am incredibly grateful for that question.
The hon. Gentleman says that I should have had these meetings last week, but I was in Vietnam last week. I arrived back in the UK today, and my officials and I have been working today and reaching out. I am actually quite fond of the hon. Gentleman, but I think that he is deliberately teasing me and misrepresenting what I said. I hope to have those conversations tomorrow, but what I said was that I could not guarantee that people would pick up the phone.
Conor Burns
The funny thing about being a Minister is that it does not necessarily mean that everyone talks to you, and it certainly does not mean that they talk to you—[Interruption.] I did say to all colleagues in the House that we all have a role to play in this. It is not a matter of, as the hon. Gentleman says, “Give it to us”. We are all in this together, and the people who work in the sector will not care whether it is the SNP, the Tories or Labour. What they will want to see is this entire House of Commons coming together to support the industry.
Alan Mak (Havant) (Con)
Chambers of commerce and transatlantic trade bodies play a key role in shaping trade policy, including on the other side of the Atlantic. What engagement has my hon. Friend had with those bodies to open up trade and markets for our exports?
Conor Burns
I am grateful to my hon. Friend, particularly as he is the last in the thin blue line between me and a barrage of questions from SNP colleagues for the remainder of these questions. He makes a very powerful point indeed.
Conor Burns
My hon. Friend the Member for Havant (Alan Mak) asked the question, and we speak through the Speaker, so I am looking directly at the Speaker. I say to the hon. Lady that I observe the conventions of this House.
My hon. Friend makes a powerful point. If we are going to advance our international trade objectives, that is done not just Government to Government, bilaterally; it is done trade organisation to trade organisation. To coin a phrase, we are all in it together.
Patricia Gibson
Clearly these punitive tariffs on Scotch whisky will be extremely damaging for distilleries such as those in my constituency in Lochranza and Lagg on the beautiful island of Arran. Despite the Minister’s words, it is clear that this damaging trade war we face does not sit well with our so-called special relationship with the US. A number of people have asked this, and I too want to press him on whether he shares the concern that this trade war is happening just as we are at the point of preparing to lose our collective trading strength as part of the EU.
Conor Burns
I share the concern of the hon. Lady, and of Members from every part of the House who have spoken this afternoon, that this is happening at all. It is the objective of the Government to try to persuade the United States to think again and not impose these damaging tariffs in 10 days’ time.
Jamie Stone (Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross) (LD)
Mr Speaker, when you think about it, the most remote UK mainland jobs associated with Scotch whisky distilling are in my constituency by definition. I think of Old Pulteney in Wick and Glenmorangie in Tain, which are two examples providing vital jobs in places where jobs do not grow on trees. In all fairness, I wish the Government well in trying to get the United States to see sense, but the European Union is the biggest market for Scottish whisky—30% by value and 36% by volume—so surely the present trade deal we have in the EU is best for Scottish whisky.
Conor Burns
We want to try to persuade our friends in the US—I can go on repeating that; I will doubtless get into trouble with the Chair if I do so. He is no longer in his place, but as I said to the current hon. Member for Streatham (Chuka Umunna)—and, to judge from a leaflet that came through the door of my flat in London last week, the aspirant Member for Westminster —he has consistently taken the view that the membership of the EU on current terms was the best deal for the UK. That is a consistent, logical and admirable view to take. It is his view and I respect it. It was not the view of the British people in 2016 when they voted to leave the European Union. They knew what they were voting for because we sent a leaflet telling them what it meant, and we have to deal with that reality. Many of us on the Government Benches, and indeed in other parts of the House, think there are great opportunities for the United Kingdom outside the European Union. The hon. Member for Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross (Jamie Stone) is right that we should absolutely have an ongoing trade agreement with the EU, which is why I would urge him and others from across the House to get behind the Prime Minister in his moderate, sensible, flexible offer to the EU. Let us get a deal across the line. That would be much more constructive than his party’s position of arguing for the revocation of article 50.
Alison Thewliss (Glasgow Central) (SNP)
As well as having Edrington headquartered in my constituency, I have the Glasgow Clydeside distillery, which opened in 2017, and Douglas Laing & Co, whose plans for the Clutha distillery at Pacific Quay are moving on apace. However, all that is now plagued by uncertainty because of this trade dispute. What assurance and support can the Minister give to businesses in the Scotch whisky industry, particularly fledging businesses, to ensure that that investment is sound?
Conor Burns
The best support we can give them is to strain every sinew to persuade the United States not to implement these tariffs in 10 days’ time.
Drew Hendry (Inverness, Nairn, Badenoch and Strathspey) (SNP)
These tariffs will cause concern not just in my constituency but across Scotland. Can the Minister confirm that since last Thursday there has been no direct contact between him or any other UK Minister and the US Administration over this issue?
Conor Burns
On this I can only speak for myself, having returned to the United Kingdom from Vietnam last night. I have not had a direct conversation—
Conor Burns
Because I was in Vietnam. I went to the office today, and we have been reaching out and having those conversations. I say to Opposition Members that the absolute determination that we must all share is to try to protect the Scotch whisky sector and persuade the United States not to implement these tariffs in 10 days’ time. That will be my focus for the rest of this week.
Carol Monaghan (Glasgow North West) (SNP)
Like many Members, I have a constituency interest. One of the largest employers in my constituency is the Edrington bottling plant, which bottles brands such as Macallan single malt. I am amazed to hear the Minister say that we should be straining every sinew to get this sorted, when he cannot pick up a phone from Vietnam. That is incredible. This was a decision backed by the World Trade Organisation. Can he confirm that, post Brexit, we will simply be swapping one set of EU trade rules for a different set of WTO rules and that, as such, things such as Scotch whisky will continue to be bound by decisions made elsewhere?
Conor Burns
The hon. Lady talks about the WTO and decisions being taken elsewhere. The WTO is the international body that does dispute resolution between countries and endeavours to work for an international level playing field in trade. I am not particularly fond of the word, but I thought there was great consensus across the House on wanting to follow an international rules-based order.
By the way, on this point of who has spoken to whom, I outlined the representations made by this Government to our counterparts in the United States, which have been made at the level of the Chancellor and of the Secretary of State to Vice-President Pence and to her counterpart US trade negotiator. We have made incredibly high-level representations on this subject and will continue to do so, because we have a determination to try not to point-score, but to come to a successful resolution on behalf of the Scotch whisky sector.
Martin Docherty-Hughes (West Dunbartonshire) (SNP)
May I first congratulate—I think I might be the first Member to do so—the right hon. Member for Dumfriesshire, Clydesdale and Tweeddale (David Mundell) on securing this urgent question? It is an important question for the entire House, not just for those of us whose constituencies are home to Auchentoshan, which—I will chide some Members—actually finds its heart and its spirit in the Kilpatrick hills. I should know: I illegally played in its distillery as a child and first represented it in 1992 as a councillor in Clydebank. Indeed, this very House’s house whisky—or hoose whisky—is Loch Lomond, found in the beautiful vale of Leven, and our largest export to Europe is Ballantine’s from Chivas, found of course in Dumbarton.
The Minister will know that this White House is the most transactional in history and will have seen from developments in, for example, Ukraine that it has thought nothing of ratchetting up leverage in as many ways as possible, as a precursor to securing concessions at a later date. Can he therefore say what the Government are doing to limit those 25% tariffs, or whether we are going to become another Ukraine?
Conor Burns
We are doing everything we can to try to persuade the United States not to do this. That has to be the overriding ambition of us all, across the House. I have said this a couple of times already, and will do it again very briefly: we all have the ability to contact people in the United States on behalf of the UK Government. The party the hon. Gentleman represents—
Conor Burns
I was going to say to the hon. Gentleman —[Interruption.] If he wants to chunter, I can sit down—[Interruption.] Asking questions and then listening to the answer is how it sort of works, but if the hon. Gentleman wants to carry on chuntering rather than listening I can sit down and he can explain to his constituents why he did not get an answer.
Mr Speaker
That was rather unseemly. It has to be said that the Minister is being utterly courteous in his responses and it would behove Members to dignify the occasion with attentiveness to his answers.
Gavin Newlands (Paisley and Renfrewshire North) (SNP)
There are currently more Scottish whisky industry jobs based in my constituency than in any other, and the very nature of these jobs leaves my constituency and those workers extremely vulnerable to a whisky downturn. Will the Minister reassure them that no stone will be left unturned by this Government, including that of an urgent intervention from the Prime Minister to the President of the United States, in ensuring that this deeply damaging tariff is not applied?
Conor Burns
I am very happy to give the hon. Gentleman the assurance that we will continue to make representations. As I have said, the Prime Minister follows proceedings in this House very closely, and I will make sure that he is aware of the strength of feeling across the House on this issue and of how important the House feels it will be for the Prime Minister to convey this message very strongly to the President on the next occasion on which they speak. I am sure that will be soon. I was going to say this to the hon. Member for West Dunbartonshire (Martin Docherty-Hughes), but as the hon. Member for Paisley and Renfrewshire North (Gavin Newlands) is listening very politely, I will say it to him: we should all be doing everything we can. The party in which the hon. Gentleman serves serves in government in Scotland, and the First Minister of Scotland herself will have a role to play in this. We must all pull on the rope together to deliver the result we want—that is, no imposition of these tariffs, which would be so damaging to the sector, in 10 days’ time.
Deidre Brock (Edinburgh North and Leith) (SNP)
We know US trade groups have been pressing for any future trade deals with the UK to drop current EU requirements on the ageing of whisky so that their younger products can be labelled and sold as some sort of equivalent. How concerned is the Minister that this is just the opening shot in what will be a determined effort by the US to destroy the protections around this iconic Scottish product?
Conor Burns
As I said before, we view this round of tariffs as wrong, ungrounded and without foundation. I do not share the hon. Lady’s overall concern. It is very important to remember that this goes beyond Scottish whisky—there are other sectors, such as cheese, clothing and so on that are caught in the crossfire of an almost ancient dispute, which goes back to 2004. They should not be, and we will do everything we can to try to persuade the United States that this is the wrong course of action and of the damage it will do to small producers, who are exactly the sort of people for whom the President says he wants to stand up in the United States. I hope that we can persuade him to protect those people here in the United Kingdom.
Alan Brown (Kilmarnock and Loudoun) (SNP)
Given that I do not actually have a distillery in my constituency, I am in the unusual position of having more workers in my constituency employed in the neighbouring aerospace sector, at Prestwick airport, and in the Airbus supply chain. It is important for both sectors that this trade dispute is resolved as soon as possible. It is also quite obvious that, although whisky is a by-trade of this, unilaterally taking tariffs off American whiskey will not solve this, given the amount of trade we send to America. These negotiations are therefore important. Given that the Minister did not pick up the phone to the US ambassador while he was in Vietnam, did he contact the EU to see what it was doing about this?
Conor Burns
Until the hon. Gentleman reached the very end of his question, I was going to say that I found myself in the very unusual position of agreeing with absolutely everything he had said. He is absolutely right that we need to decouple these tariffs and this dispute from the sector. We need to persuade the US that this is the wrong thing to do and that it is deeply harmful to people who had no role to play in the old dispute that has now finally reached judgment.
I am genuinely touched by the belief that my picking up the phone from Vietnam or anywhere else would have resolved this when people much higher up in the Government—at Cabinet level and at a very senior Cabinet level—have quite rightly been making these representations. I will now join in and support them in making these representations.
How many times do we say these things? The Secretary of State for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy spoke to the Vice-President of the United States when he was here very recently. She spoke to her counterpart, and the Chancellor made representations to the US Treasury Secretary. I will endeavour to make sure that the Prime Minister, when he understands the strength of feeling here, raises these matters with President Trump. I will say it again: those who are watching this, those who have returned home and been foolish enough to put the Parliament channel on, will not want us to score points against each other. They will want us to deliver for the Scotch whisky sector.
Peter Grant (Glenrothes) (SNP)
In the interests of brevity, I do not intend to reel off all the world-leading brands produced in my wonderful constituency, although I should make an exception out of deference to and respect for my hon. Friend the Member for Kilmarnock and Loudoun (Alan Brown). Killie will always be the home of Johnnie Walker, even though it is now produced and bottled in my constituency.
The world-leading brands that are produced and bottled by Diageo in Fife are almost exclusively blended whiskies, so on the face of it we are okay, but I am uncomfortable, partly because so many others are not okay and partly because something that damages part of our whisky industry damages all of it. Does it worry the Minister at all that without the UK Government being able to do anything about it we have been put into a position where it will be seen as a massive success just to get back to where we were before? Is that a precursor of what trade deals will be like in the brave new world of the WTO?
Mr Speaker
I think that the House is grateful to the Minister both for dealing with this urgent question and the exchanges on it the last 77 minutes, and for his efforts on the previous such question. He mentioned to the House that he was making his debut at the Dispatch Box. I cannot readily call to mind an example of a Minister who on making a debut at the Box has had to answer successive urgent questions, and the hon. Gentleman has done so with considerable commitment and élan. We are grateful to him.