Commons Chamber

Wednesday 3rd September 2025

(began 3 hours, 2 minutes ago)

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None Portrait Q4. What steps she is taking with Cabinet colleagues to help improve the quality of maternity care for women. (905465)
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highlights as well as others would not be worth it salt. What I commit to is to continue to work with DSIT to is to continue to work with DSIT
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Keir Starmer Portrait Rt Hon Sir Keir Starmer MP, The Prime Minister (Holborn and St Pancras, Labour)
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there is a crisis brewing for the whole country. When was the last time the cost of government borrowing was so high?

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I join her in her comments on Mr Warburton. I think the Whole House Warburton. I think the Whole House would unite on an issue such as would unite on an issue such as that. In relation to the deputy Prime Minister, she explained her personal circumstances in detail. She has gone over and above in setting out the details, including setting out the details, including yesterday afternoon, asking the yesterday afternoon, asking the court to lift the confidentiality order in relation to her own son.

I know from speaking at length to the Deputy Prime Minister how difficult Deputy Prime Minister how difficult that decision was for herself and her family. She did it to ensure all information is in the public domain. She has referred herself to the She has referred herself to the independent adviser. That is the right thing to do. But I'm proud to sit alongside a Deputy Prime sit alongside a Deputy Prime Minister who is building 1.5 million homes, the biggest upgrade to workers rights in a generation and workers rights in a generation and has come from a working-class background to be Deputy Prime background to be Deputy Prime Minister of this country.

On the question of borrowing costs, they have risen across the world, as the Leader of the Opposition knows, we Leader of the Opposition knows, we are driving them down by getting debt down. That is hardwired into our fiscal rules, those fiscal rules are nonnegotiable. But I am not going to take lectures on the economy from the party opposite who crashed the economy, mortgages went through the roof and there was a record fall in living standards. record fall in living standards.
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Laura Trott Portrait Rt Hon Laura Trott MP (Sevenoaks, Conservative)
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I am grateful. I beg to move that leave be given to bring a bill to require travel assistance issued by the secretary of state and other persons to include guidance about the risks of methanol and connector purposes. I have been working closely on this issue on behalf of one of my constituents who, alongside her family, Sue, Neil, Tom and Amanda, have been fighting to raise awareness of the dangers of methanol the abroad following the tragic death of -- methanol poisoning abroad following the tragic death of Simon White.

She was following with her friend Bethany in Laos, they were staying in a riverside town about two miles north of the capital, a hub for backpackers travelling across Southeast Asia. It was here that she and her friend consumed shots of alcohol offered at the hostel, the next day, both were unwell but carried on with plans. Hours later, after boarding a bus to the next destination, things worsened, Bethany ended, Simone vomited. They were taken to a local hospital but doctors had no idea what was wrong.

Initially suspected food poisoning. Still confused and deteriorating, the girls made it to a private hospital. I cannot imagine how frightened and confused they must have been at this point. Sadly, by then, it was too late for Simone. She started having seizures during dialysis and was taken for emergency brain surgery. The surgery relieved the pressure but caused bleeding and the other side of her brain started to swell. The results confirming methanol were not available until methanol were not available until two weeks later, by then, Simone has sadly already passed away.

While Bethany did recover following hospitalisation, six of the young people fell victim to suspected methanol having drunk at the same hospital. Two young Australians, two young Danish women, an American all lost their lives. As the Australian Prime Minister said in November, this is every parent's worst nightmare. My heart goes out to all of the families who lost loved ones Tragic circumstances. Over the last year, I have learned so much about Simone, he was a much loved young woman.

She had a brilliant life ahead of her and it was clear from when I had handed her funeral that she was deeply loved by her friends and family. A year ago, like so many others here, I did not know much about methanol, yet over 1,000 people die from it every single year worldwide. This is such a huge danger that barely any others know about it. I also went backpacking after university but never knew about the dangers. Sadly, the same is true of so many of our young people.

This must change.. For members less aware than we should be, methanol is tasteless and is only a faint smell, making it impossible to tell if a drink has been contaminated. When consumed, it can lead to a coma, convulsions, blindness, nervous system damage and death. medical specialists say that drinking as little as 25 millilitres of methanol can be fatal, but it is sometimes added to drinks because it is cheaper than alcohol. Since the loss, Simone's family have campaigned tirelessly to prevent similar tragedies affecting other families.

Alongside Simone's friend, Bethany, they were raising awareness of the dangers of methanol and it was our honour earlier this year to help arrange a parliamentary drop-in session on the subject, alongside the Member for Torbay and turn and the Member for Dartford. The family were joined by representatives from the family -- travel industry, the British toxicology Society and the FCDO to educate MPs and the message was clear. Awareness saves lives. But only when government guidance is accurate, clear and consistent. Sadly, current official travel advice is falling short.

In some high-risk countries there is very little warning at all. What advice does exist, it is vague. Travellers are told that certain drinks might carry a risk or they should exercise caution. This is not a matter of caution. This is about a lethal and preventable danger. I appreciate that the Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office has updated the section for travel advice on its website that we must do more to make the warnings clearer and more explicit so the information is more explicit so the information is more readily available to everyone.

The government's travel aware website has an informative section on methanol that more must be done to make the advice and guidance better known to young people before they travel. As things stand, you have to search for it to find it. My bill, supported by the members from Indian, Dartford, Cheadle and Lewisham, proposes a straightforward solution, it does not attempt to police alcohol sales abroad, does not require costly programs or enforcement, it requires the government to provide prominent, clear and consistent guidance about methanol poisoning for countries where the risk is known to exist.

Other governments have taken steps to warn their citizens, Australia's Smart Traveller service provides unambiguous, practical advice and reaches young travellers through We should do no less and must not be left behind. Families like Simone's are not asking for the impossible but asking for honesty, clarity, guidance that is actionable, so that other families do not suffer the same loss. We have already shown the collaboration between families, experts, and authorities, does raise awareness. It is time to put that into action.

The Minister is well aware of Simone's story. We have kindly hosted by the Foreign Office with the honourable member and the family earlier this year and I thank them for their engagement to date and look forward to working with them because I know that they understand there is a lot at stake. As Simone's mother said, "If it can happen to someone, it can happen to anyone." Let's start today the process of preventing further

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tragedies. I commend this bill to the House. The question is the right

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The question is the right honourable member have leave to bring in the bill. As many as of bring in the bill. As many as of that opinion, say, "Aye." To the contrary, say, "No." The ayes have contrary, say, "No." The ayes have it. We will commend the bill to the house?

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Vicky Foxcroft and myself.

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Vicky Foxcroft and myself.

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Methanol Poisoning Methanol Poisoning (Travel

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Methanol Poisoning (Travel Advice) Bill. Second Reading, 29th Advice) Bill. Second Reading, 29th of May, 2026. We Now Come to the of May, 2026. We Now Come to the Opposition Motion in the Name of the
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Mel Stride Portrait Rt Hon Sir Mel Stride MP (Central Devon, Conservative)
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as a result of the reckless immigration policies. She was also working on her property empire but there were some nagging doubts as to whether she had indeed paid enough stamp duty. We will get to that. Those who could not avoid paying the tax imposed by this government are the businesses up and down the country, many of whom I took the time during recess two visit. In the leisure sector alone, some 80,000 jobs have been destroyed by national insurance, particularly affecting those taking their first job, jungle workers, part-time workers, female workers.

-- Younger workers. Jobs being destroyed. While the deputy Prime Minister was lounging on her boat with her wine, the government was all at sea, like a cork bobbing on the tide with no control over the events around them. When it came to the economy, while eclipsed by the calamity of illegal migration, we saw the panicked recent reshuffle of the Treasury front bench. At this point, I would like to offer my congratulations to warmly welcome the honourable member to his new role but to tell him that he is joining a sinking ship, one of which the captain has just had all of authority strip from her and all of his comrades, down below deck, are trying to bail out the situation.

I would like to offer a fond farewell to the former Chief Secretary To The Treasury who no doubt thought it was very clever when he left off this sinking ship but he will not feel so property finds the place he has been sent to is even more dysfunctional on the Treasury front bench. Over the summer, among all the news about arrivals to our shores, we have the cruel summer of speculation around tax. We have seen in the skies clouds of kites, flown largely by the Treasury, as to what taxes they will put up and it has been tax, tax, tax.

I remind him of the Beatles and 'The Taxman', "If You Take a Walk, I Will Tax Your Feet." When it comes to tax, it is not so much 'Good Day', but 'Help'. I Was Going to Try 'Penny Lane' but I drew the line at that. It is worth examining how we got to this point because reckoning our for the country is surely coming and this will be a story for all. I will give way momentarily.

It started with broken promises. During the run-up to the general election, this party said they had no intention of raising taxes left, right, and centre, but they did precisely that within a month or two, with devastating consequences. Tax rises on businesses that stifled growth and a detox tone the economy by -- that stifled growth and they talked down the economy and the agony that they brought in the OBR to decide whether the black hole of £22 billion existed and the OBR said that they could not legitimise the claim.

They were wrong. What happened with spending and borrowing? What completely out of control and the combination of passing on price rises because of National Insurance increases and the extra borrowing and spending has led to higher inflation. We are an outlier when it comes to inflation. In turn, that has seen interest rates higher for longer and the servicing costs on national debt running at over £100 million a year, that being over twice what we spend

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on Defence. I will give way. I thank my honourable friend for

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I thank my honourable friend for giving way. Would he agree with me that this loss of market confidence that this loss of market confidence demands decisive action from the government at the Budget to correct government at the Budget to correct it? And, that the decisive action cannot solely be taken on the tax cannot solely be taken on the tax side because that is what has driven side because that is what has driven us into this loop. We need decisive action on spending and particularly welfare if we are to see restoration of market confidence and get ourselves out of this rut.



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ourselves out of this rut. As ever, my right honourable friend is right and you see it in friend is right and you see it in the bond yields that the markets have no confidence in the ability of the government to get on top of the government to get on top of spending. We saw the farce of a government that came into office, government that came into office, scrapping the £5 billion worth of welfare savings that were baked into welfare savings that were baked into the OBR scorecard because we put them in and they attempted to bring in their own reforms which were in their own reforms which were voted down by their own backbenchers.

The government does not have the will nor the plan to deal with spending. This is where my right honourable friend is so right, it is at the heart of the reason why we will be polished and pay the price of more taxes come the Budget in November. -- We will all be polished.

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I commend the shadow minister for

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I commend the shadow minister for bringing this forward and we should bringing this forward and we should all share the concern that the government is considering further attacks on property despite the fact attacks on property despite the fact the Prime Minister committed to not increase in capital gains tax in Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Last year, it was the emergency tax and this year it is those who own property and those who have scrimped and saved to own their houses and the middle class who have now become the middle class who have now become the latest target of Labour tax

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policy. He is entirely right, of course. If you get into a situation where you are scrambling around and you are scrambling around and looking at policy for property tax, then really nothing is safe from the taxman under this government.

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taxman under this government. I thank him for giving way and I gently remind him that since this government came into power, interest government came into power, interest rates have been cut five times which is a vote of confidence that the Chancellor, fixing the condition of the economy and saving an average family in my constituency over £100 a month. Can't see remind me what happened to interest rates when his party was in power? -- Can he.

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Interest rates can bring down inflation and while she is right, there should have been more reductions and the reason is that reductions and the reason is that this government has stoked inflation. It is still rising and is inflation. It is still rising and is at twice the level or thereabouts that it was on the day of the last general election and when a general election and when a government stalks inflation, GPD price with higher interest rates. -- price with higher interest rates.

-- stokes. That is what has been happening.

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happening. He is right to highlight the impact of the massive tax increases on many families and businesses on many families and businesses across the country. Can he comment on how we can have a Deputy Prime Minister in government who has Minister in government who has admitted paying the tax that she owed and continues in office and people are paying the price for people are paying the price for lesser offences than that. Does this not expose the rank hypocrisy that runs through the government?

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If the right honourable lady wants to make laws, she should live by them. That message will go out to businesses and families across the country. There is no way that they can avoid the juggernaut of taxes coming down the track.

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In return for his generosity, I will say something pleasant about the last Conservative government. Wait for it... Just one thing. The Wait for it... Just one thing. The last government allowed councils last government allowed councils like my local constituency which is run by the Liberal Democrats to run by the Liberal Democrats to double some tax and that is correct because some committees are being because some committees are being annihilated. But can I acknowledge that the party should do much more that the party should do much more than that and that should be built into the planning review so that into the planning review so that national parks and councils can manage numbers and improve communities?

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communities? I thank him for his intervention and the kind words about the Conservative party which I am sure our very genuine. I would say that what the deputy prime minister what the deputy prime minister should be doing is delivering more should be doing is delivering more and it is clear that these will be delivered at the rate of 300,000 a year but that claim is not going to be met and I would be happy in the future to look at this but I suspect I will not get the chance.

Where we have ended up as a situation where we have a huge black hole living. The National Institute for Economics and Social Research estimates that as possibly £40 billion. This is a recurrent theme with the economic mismanagement of the party opposite and the October Budget, the first Budget that was £10 million out, that was blown by the time of the Spring Statement, the emergency Budget in the spring. Once again, it appears even that and considerably more has been blown all over again.

That is no surprise when it came to the U-turn on winter fuel payments, on welfare reforms that we have already discussed in this debate. That led to unfunded commitments of around £6 billion, but the Chancellor said the Labour Party would never find themselves in the situation. It has not happened. What signal does it send to the markets that the government cannot control spending? In the long term, it remains to be seen for what it will be our class to say about the forecast for -- remains to be seen what the OBR has to say about the bonds and we have seen this hitting 27-year high and we are paying more on borrowing than Greece.

There is a potential debt crisis looming and the country could be on the brink

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This government inherited higher bond yields, right now bond yields are going up in Germany, Japan and the United States.

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They stayed up under the last government, there was a need to support the economy and that involved the expenditure of £400 million, not least on the furlough million, not least on the furlough scheme, which, I do not remember his party at the time saying we should not do that. They were arguing we should go still further than that. should go still further than that. In and saved jobs and saved us going into the mass unemployment many into the mass unemployment many feared, worse even than the 19 and I take pride in that.

But we are where we are now and what this government should be doing is growing the should be doing is growing the economy, stoking up business sentiment, getting taxes down and getting the economy moving. And it

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is doing precisely the opposite. I am grateful to the shadow Secretary of State for giving way. Secretary of State for giving way. Isn't there a difference that we are seeing stagflation, high inflation seeing stagflation, high inflation and the economy not going in the way it should be. Therefore we are getting the job losses we are seeing and unemployment going up every month under this Labour government. Unless the government does something drastically different, this is only going to get worse rather than get better, which impacts growth prospects and our prosperity, not only of our nation but the individuals who work and try to thrive here.



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Is right, we are seeing high inflation, we are seeing anaemic inflation, we are seeing anaemic inflation, we are seeing anaemic growth, we are seeing the pound plummeting in recent times. All of those are signals on the dashboard that are flashing red. Instead of getting a grip on spending and getting a grip on spending and getting taxes down, this government has been out their pitch rolling yet more taxes. Over the summer we have seen their briefings into the press of suggested tax rises on property.

The party opposite has an opportunity this afternoon to rule opportunity this afternoon to rule those possibilities out and we should look to the Minister when he should look to the Minister when he responds to do just that. There has responds to do just that. There has been a suggestion that there will be changes to private residents leave changes to private residents leave under the capital gain system -- under the capital gain system -- relief. People being penalised for selling up and moving home.

It would selling up and moving home. It would have clear implications of bringing up the property market, it would have clear and economic implications for causing friction in the process of people moving from one part of the country and the others, often in search of work. It would mean that where downsizing will be beneficial in providing more homes for people to live in, it would discourage that. The Prime Minister, before the election, said there never was a This type, so it does not need running out.

So let's rule it out in case anyone pretends that there was. Perhaps I could ask the Minister to confirm he still stands by the words of the Prime Minister? Secondly, an annual tax on homes, what a tax on aspiration, a tax on those people who have saved hard and managed to get onto the property ladder and then stop with annual taxes, what about those asset rich but income poor and cannot afford to pay and are expected to sell up? Will the Minister rule out that possibility and keep people's minds at rest? We hear also that it may be that we will be looking at changes to the gifting regime within inheritance tax.

They are not content to pulverise the farmers, they are not content to pulverise the family businesses, seeing those businesses and farms broken up when they are passed on from one generation to another because of the imposition of tax, something that it was the Labour government in the 1970s that brought in the reliefs this government has now chosen to abolish. I will give way in a second. Inheritance tax will double in its yield over this Parliament. And we say enough is enough on the side of the House.

We should not be punishing parents who wish to pass something on to their children. Socialists do not understand. We do not all understand as individuals, we work together as families and communities, we care about each other, we care about the people we love and it is right we have the opportunity to pass something on to

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them. I thank the shadow, it is such an important issue, properties and important issue, properties and assets are vital to people in the country, but specifically on the lifetime limit for inheritance tax lifetime limit for inheritance tax passing on, everyone will have heard the government telling farmers and family businesses they need to get family businesses they need to get their affairs in order and they need to plan, not having a limit on the lifetime cap is what allows them to lifetime cap is what allows them to plan.

If that is cut, that negates every argument the government has had in the last year as to why they had in the last year as to why they think they can justify the family farm and family business tax. In responding, can the Minister acknowledge this and rule out any

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acknowledge this and rule out any change to that cap that would penalised these family farms and family businesses? The honourable lady has put it

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The honourable lady has put it brilliantly. She is absolutely right. In their horror, in their recoil as some of the inheritance recoil as some of the inheritance tax changes, that is exactly what farmers and family business owners have been doing, thinking about the alternatives and the seven year rule alternatives and the seven year rule has been one of those alternatives and it would be really artless and extraordinarily cruel if this extraordinarily cruel if this government were now to shut that

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down as well. I am grateful to my right

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I am grateful to my right honourable friend and he is explaining the situation in his usual, powerful way. If this seems likely that this government does likely that this government does impose capital gains tax on persons principle private residence, will he then, as mitigation, consider then, as mitigation, consider whether there should be indexation allowance at least to provide some relief to the horror I fear is about to be inflicted on my constituents, my right honourable friend will remember that the Conservative government abolished that relief on government abolished that relief on property.

At least it would take the property. At least it would take the edge of the imposition of taxes on

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edge of the imposition of taxes on the sale of people's principle private residence. Visitors point in the usual

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Visitors point in the usual eloquent manner. That is a question for the Minister, perhaps when he rises he can rule out our concerns in their entirety. But in the event he cannot, perhaps he would choose to answer the inquiry. Is it not the case that there is a clear misunderstanding from the party opposite because they have no business experience, there is no business experience in the government when it comes to setting up properties, understanding the meaning of business taxes, it is simply not there.

Labour will be talking about taxing wealth, if you tax wealth, you will get less of it. It is estimated around 15,000 high net worth individuals have left our country under the period this government has been in power. The consequence of that is that the tax that have walked out of the door will require around one third to half a million people on average earnings to make up the difference. It is not a case of good riddance to wealth, it is a case of we should, as this party will, be the party that encourages and turbochargers it

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at every turn. I'm sure Hansard will correct me.

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I'm sure Hansard will correct me. My honourable friend made some comments around high net worth, comments around high net worth, high-value individuals. Particularly in my constituency individuals on low incomes, representing Peterborough with one of the highest levels of zero hours and chronically insecure work. Does he not agree insecure work. Does he not agree that his party often once all of the spending but none of the delivery for the funding to do that? He talked about reducing taxation on talked about reducing taxation on some of the higher net worth, can he some of the higher net worth, can he talk about which doctors surgeries in my constituency would receive cuts under his plans? Which individuals would receive protection from employment rights and how the from employment rights and how the people of Peterborough would be worse off, unless he wants to reduce the spending that would fix the foundations of this country?

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foundations of this country? He refers to spending and cutting

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He refers to spending and cutting spending. His party attempted to cut spending and entirely failed to do so. My point is, if he wants money so. My point is, if he wants money to spend on public services, he does need, he should worry about cutting need, he should worry about cutting welfare. I do not know how he voted when it came to putting that to the test in this House, but if he in anyway voted against his own government and getting on top of the welfare bill, he should ask his question of himself.

When it comes to those on low incomes, they are precisely the people who are being devastated now by the National Insurance increase. Because what we know is it is not just an increase in the rate, it is a reduction at the threshold that national insurance now kicks in. That means higher unemployment, particularly amongst younger workers, part-time workers, women, people getting vital first job so they can get themselves on a career path. They are the people that his government are publishing most.

I give way.

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Iron grateful to him for giving way. Isn't this the point, one percent income tax is paid for by... percent income tax is paid for by... One percent of the top earners pay One percent of the top earners pay most 30 percent of income tax. If we lose those people, we damage the very people who need that support and the investment from the very and the investment from the very taxpayers we just scared off. Should taxpayers we just scared off.

Should the reverse beat happening? We attract more people into this

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attract more people into this country to spend more money to have more money for those services through tax cuts? Is absolutely right. I already

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Is absolutely right. I already shared with the House that classic example of the number of people who example of the number of people who have left this country because of a

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have left this country because of a punitive tax regime and the cost. I will give way. Further to my honourable friend's excellent point, the party opposite denigrates wealthy individuals that denigrates wealthy individuals that choose to come to this country, it is not just the tax they provide but the jobs and opportunities they create by investing in create by investing in constituencies up and down the country. This country has prospered for hundreds of years by being open for hundreds of years by being open and welcoming to inward investment.

If we lose that, we lose a key plank of the competitiveness and growth we

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associated with our economy. We live in a highly mobile world,

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We live in a highly mobile world, it is quite easy for people with substantial wealth or money to invest to go anywhere in the world. We have to remain competitive. But We have to remain competitive. But this government is making a mess, this government is making a mess, she mentions unemployment, should we have expected more from this have expected more from this government? Not really. Every Labour government left unemployment higher government left unemployment higher when they left office than when they when they left office than when they came into office.

What we see on unemployment? Since the government has been in office it has increased every single month since they have

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every single month since they have been in power. I give way to the honourable lady. He has spent his last five minutes circling around figures gathered by a consultancy that aids gathered by a consultancy that aids the super wealthy to migrate from this country. Where is the Conservative party getting its Conservative party getting its economic ideas from? It speaks volumes he has spent so much at this volumes he has spent so much at this point speaking for the 15,000 high net worth individuals served by that consultancy, what will the Conservative party do to grow the Conservative party do to grow the economy for the benefit of all economy for the benefit of all

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The honourable lady asks where we are getting ideas from - we are not getting them from those now sitting getting them from those now sitting on the Treasury front bench or in on the Treasury front bench or in places around Number 10 and to talk regularly about taxing wealth, regularly about taxing wealth, property, shares, assets of any kind they can think of. That is the road they can think of. That is the road to ruin. She asks about where we get our ideas, I got mine in the 1980s, setting up my own business from nothing, it from scratch, to get to nothing, it from scratch, to get to America, drawing a business there.

-- Taking it to America and growing my business there and I speak to the people who start businesses and they people who start businesses and they are the people that understand what has to be done on the tax front and the people that have to live with the people that have to live with the red tape that they are party is bringing in -- red tape that her

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bringing in -- red tape that her party is bringing to tie them down. He has talked at great length

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He has talked at great length about taxing the wealthy and has admitted one suggestion that has admitted one suggestion that has come forth over the summer, getting rid of the punitive council tax system, that puts attacks on poverty and deprivation and the former leader of the council famously leader of the council famously cheers when he put up council tax on deprived people in Hartlepool and now he has defected to the four and

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Reform. We do not want reform and change

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We do not want reform and change to be static but when it comes to the level of council tax to which the honourable gentleman referrals, if you take the average amount, it is demonstrably higher than the equivalent taxes in conservative equivalent taxes in conservative areas and that comes down to the approach that the Conservative approach that the Conservative Council takes to spending and making Council takes to spending and making sure things are run fairly and it is the opposite of the approach of the party opposite.



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party opposite. One suggestion the government had earlier this year was from a Conservative county council to suggested increasing council tax and that was blocked by the government that was blocked by the government and Secretary of State. Will you join me in condemning the proposal join me in condemning the proposal

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join me in condemning the proposal to increase council tax by 15%? I will not get into specifics in

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I will not get into specifics in his area. Why would I be expected to comment on something of that nature comment on something of that nature in his constituency? My general point stands that it is a simple fact that Labour -controlled local authorities charge more for our councils.

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Can I just say that you cannot just stand up like that.

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just stand up like that. In fact, that is not a fact and,

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In fact, that is not a fact and, in my vision, the reality is that Milton Keynes, the local authority Milton Keynes, the local authority run by Labour, has lower tax than all surrounding Tory authorities all surrounding Tory authorities including Northamptonshire, which has failed again and again and two has failed again and again and two macro -- reform-run councils, two macro -- reform-run councils, two and the Labour-run councils are doing better than those run by the Conservatives.

Even if the assertion

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was true, it does not contradict the point that I made. It was this Prime Minister who

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It was this Prime Minister who said, "Not a penny more on council said, "Not a penny more on council tax." Is the Shadow Chancellor aware

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of how that worked? Badly. Returning to the previous point,

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Returning to the previous point, this whole debate is premised on media speculation and asking for comment on a proposal made to the comment on a proposal made to the government to increase council tax government to increase council tax by 15% by a county council run by the Conservatives. He asked us to comment on media speculation but comment on media speculation but

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will not comment on a proposal. I have been clear and I must make progress because I have been progress because I have been generous on interventions. With council tax, it's a fact that councils controlled by the Conservative party charge less and that is because the whole approach that is because the whole approach to running the council, our approach the economy, is to make sure it is done efficiently and we do not done efficiently and we do not impose undue burdens on people with unnecessary tax.

We were told in the first budget by the Chancellor in first budget by the Chancellor in the autumn that the tax hikes were a the autumn that the tax hikes were a once-N-R-Parliament event. It is a The uncertainty that has flowed from the disaster situation has caused issues with property transition, choices, and on some of the freedoms that as citizens we often take for granted. That is because of the choices of Labour. The party opposite will desperately dismiss all of this as press speculation and I expect to hear that from the Minister in a moment is it not the truth that this sorry tale is entirely of their own making and the inevitable result of their choices and the failure that has followed, with much of the speculation seeming to be fuelled by briefings from within government itself? This House and the public deserve answers.

The Chancellor cannot borrow more and has shown no ability to control spending. That can only leave tax. spending. That can only leave tax. Which taxes will it be? Are family Which taxes will it be? Are family home safe? If we vote for the simple measure, it is clear, under this government, nothing is safe, not your home, pension, savings, business, farm, that which you simply wish to pass on to you until. The message to hard-working people across the country could not be more clear - Labour will always dock hard choices and will tax the living daylights out of the future of your family to pay for their failure.

family to pay for their failure.
13:23
James Murray Portrait James Murray MP, The Chief Secretary to the Treasury (Ealing North, Labour )
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I am sorry, I hope someone did

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not say, "Hypocrisy." I would like to thank the audible

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I would like to thank the audible member for Central Devon for opening the debate and I can see he has been the debate and I can see he has been polishing his rhetorical flourishes during the summer but perhaps you could have spent his time more productively. Thank you for your congratulations and it is an honour congratulations and it is an honour to be here as Chief Secretary to the Treasury and I pay tribute to the Treasury and I pay tribute to the new Chief Secretary to the Prime Minister, my predecessor, for his work on the Spending Review and I welcome my honourable friend to his welcome my honourable friend to his new role, one which I enjoyed myself and I am sure he will be excellent and I am sure he will be excellent in.

Honourable members opposite will appreciate the emotion itself, as appreciate the emotion itself, as they had tabled to the house itself. they had tabled to the house itself. -- The motion itself will not improve tax measures and members across the House bill now that the across the House bill now that the government does not respond to speculation in advance of the Budget which has been announced today for which has been announced today for 26 November. This has long been the case and the right honourable member knows this well and also that it will be irresponsible to engage in speculation so, whatever political rhetoric he and his colleagues will use in the debate and regardless of how many variants of the same questions we hear in the debate, you will know I cannot engage in speculation about individual tax measures ahead of the Budget.



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He says he will not and cannot speculate on individual tax messages speculate on individual tax messages so will he deny that the Number 11 so will he deny that the Number 11 machine has not been leaking the stories to the national press over stories to the national press over the summer? I will not engage in speculation or the mechanics around speculation or the mechanics around that. They will simply have to wait until 26 November for the specifics of the budget at that point and then of the budget at that point and then I am sure they and his colleagues will have plenty to say.

Where I will have plenty to say. Where I genuinely congratulate the new Chief Secretary for the Treasury at the bulbous phantom honest and straightforward as a speaker in the straightforward as a speaker in the House. -- I have always seen him as an honest and straightforward speaker. Does he agree that in any process of fiscal consolidation, one process of fiscal consolidation, one must look at tax rises and spending cuts. Has been speculation about further measures on welfare - yes or

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further measures on welfare - yes or no, will they be under consideration? I thank him for his kind words but he will know that the welfare measures are being investigated by my right honourable friend through the review being undertaken and the government is determined to support people to get and maintain a job.

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What is not speculation is that the largest rise in property taxes happened under the Conservatives when Liz Truss crashed the economy when Liz Truss crashed the economy and increased interest rates for everyone in my constituency. On a everyone in my constituency. On a point of principle, will be ministers speak to the point that ministers speak to the point that different parts of the country have different house prices and that must be reflected in Treasury thinking be reflected in Treasury thinking when it comes to considering tax in the Budget this year?

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the Budget this year? He is absolutely right to remind everyone of the record under the everyone of the record under the short lived Prime Minister, Liz Truss, when the party opposite were Truss, when the party opposite were in power and I noticed they do not refer to that when evaluating the economic situation but the British economic situation but the British people will not forget. I read the people will not forget. I read the country, yes right, what we want to ensure we are building affordable homes in every part of the country and that is why one of the government priorities has been to and from the planning system to enable the building of 1.5 million enable the building of 1.5 million homes to ensure people can afford to live close to where they grew up and want to work.

I will give way one more time but I want to make progress.

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As pointed out, the government wants to build new homes and it is important that they recognise the important that they recognise the value of a home to a family, how important it is. On that principle, important it is. On that principle, because he has said he will not talk on specifics, but the principal, does he recognise taxing people's homes is something we should not

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pursue if we are a country that values homeownership? I gently remind the honourable

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I gently remind the honourable member that council tax exists in member that council tax exists in the country which is a tax on property and saw the principle of having some taxes on property is having some taxes on property is well established and has been for some time the audibility is tempting me to engage in more speculation but me to engage in more speculation but I will not do that. Not on issues that will be in the Budget.

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that will be in the Budget. De Mr is always generous with his time and I congratulate him on his time and I congratulate him on his promotion which is well. -- The promotion which is well. -- The Minister. In terms of services, under the previous government, hundreds of HMRC compliance officers, including my mother, were made redundant and we could not collect the council tax that was due. Is that part of the problem and what led to the black hole and finances the government inherited? Speak about the Minister should be

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short. Point taken. I thank him for the intervention and his mother for her service to HMRC in the past because service to HMRC in the past because they do a critical job in collecting the tax, which is important to funding public services and ensuring funding public services and ensuring the economy functions effectively. A government priority is to close the government priority is to close the tax gap which existed under the previous government and in the previous government and in the Budget, we set out plans to raise additional tax revenue of £7.5 billion to support people are getting jobs and investing in new getting jobs and investing in new technology to ensure people are paying their tax.

I will make some paying their tax. I will make some I must let my promise on that front. There are questions that the right honourable member Central Devon is honourable member Central Devon is asking today and he asked in his opening remarks and his colleagues with their sheets from the whips had been due to leave following up in the comments as well, as much which we cannot talk about today. There are of course other important facts are of course other important facts which he does not want to talk about stop which the British people have not forgotten.

The £22 billion black hole in our public finances, which the previous government hid from the light. The disastrous mini-Budget which cause damage to households across the country and to our reputation around the world. Stalled housing, unfinished infrastructure, public services brought to their knees by an investment and disinterest. They do not want to talk about these things because of course they are the legacy of the last government. We just found out today that the right honourable gentlemen does not even want to talk about things happening by Conservative councils, as my honourable friend the Member for Basingstoke raised so importantly in his contribution earlier.

Now they are in opposition his party and those in Reform are talking Britain down. They want to claim that down. They want to claim that Britain is broken. But I believe that Britain is unbreakable. Our country is full of potential, home to hard-working people, brilliant businesses, world leading universities and research institutions, cultural giants and the promise that if you work hard and contribute to the country, it will be a place where you can succeed. Yet undeniably, after 14 years of Tory mismanagement, far too many working people feel that the economy is stuck.

I hear from constituents... I have been asked to make some progress so I will return a little later. I hear from my constituents, as I'm sure many other people in this chamber do, they tell us that no matter how much effort they put in, no matter the effort they put in at work, the careful management of household finances and the diligent efforts to save for a brighter future, they do not yet feel they are getting enough in return and it has become harder to get ahead.

At the same time, our roads and railways seem slower and less reliable and our classrooms seem fuller last NHS has a massive backlog. The root cause of all this is the chronic underinvestment by the previous government. That underinvestment over many years has slowdown productivity growth to a rate not seen since the Napoleonic wars. Members opposite, I will give way.

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Can I thank the Minister for giving way. Would he agree with me that thanks to the tight fiscal rules that this government has introduced and the changes in the introduced and the changes in the Budget, my resident in Dartford, since the election, have seen an investment in the lower Thames crossing, something it wanted the 15 crossing, something it wanted the 15 years and was not delivered under the last government, £25 million the last government, £25 million hospital rebuilding project, Darren Valley, and a structure is fun, a £1 billion DfT structures fun, which billion DfT structures fun, which will repair the ruined Galley Hill Road in my Dartford constituency? It Road in my Dartford constituency? It is only thanks to the Government's rules and its budget changes that we see these changes, is that not right?

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right? I thank my honourable friend boys intervention, is absolutely right that it is only thanks to the fiscal rules which the Chancellor introduced at last is Budget and our decisions, the right decisions to make sure those fiscal rules are make sure those fiscal rules are nonnegotiable and will keep to them at every stage, it is only because of those decisions we have been able of those decisions we have been able to boost investment by £120 billion over the course of this Parliament.

And many other projects, including And many other projects, including those he mentioned and those in constituencies right across the constituencies right across the country that is the right thing for our country. We are talking about chronic underinvestment, we are tackling that. Both are making sure the Government invest across the country and we encourage private sector investment to get businesses across Britain growing. A very short

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one and then I must make progress. Thank you very much. With the Minister agree that taxation is intrinsically linked to economic intrinsically linked to economic growth and that there are already green shoots of recovery in the

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green shoots of recovery in the economy, with three trade deals and five interest-rate cuts? I thank my honourable friend for

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I thank my honourable friend for her intervention and she is her intervention and she is absolutely right. The critical to our plans is economic growth. She pointed to the trade deals we secured and she will know, as other Honourable members will also, the UK is the fastest growing G7 economy in the first half of this year. There the first half of this year. There is much more first to do but we are showing that because of the right decisions we have taken, we are starting to move in the right

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starting to move in the right direction. I'm going to make... Ok, I will give way one more time and then I promise... I do not want him to speculate

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I do not want him to speculate but I do want him to consider something. We talked about people something. We talked about people not paying taxes. A significant minority of second homeowners in my constituency let their property out for just a few days a year and as a for just a few days a year and as a result claim to be a small business, pay no council tax and Pena business rates. So people working on the minimum age in my constituency are minimum age in my constituency are subsidising things people to pay no council tax at all.

-- On the minimum wage in my constituency are

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subsidising those people to pay no council tax at all. I should congratulate the right honourable gentlemen of an inventive way of inviting to speculate on tax way of inviting to speculate on tax measures. I am aware of the issue he points to and I thank him for raising it in this context but of course I'm not able to make any course I'm not able to make any decisions on taxation at the Dispatch Box today. Going back briefly to the broader context because it is absolutely crystal because it is absolutely crystal clear, both from the right honourable gentlemen's opening remarks and indeed all of his remarks and indeed all of his colleagues have been saying so far that members opposite are still in total denial about any total denial about any responsibility they have for the situation the country finds itself in.

They act as if being behind the in. They act as if being behind the wheel for 14 years is irrelevant to where we find ourselves now. It may be that they think that if they do not talk about it the British people may forget the last government's responsibility to getting us into the current situation. But the the current situation. But the British people know that the Conservatives did this to our country. And that is why at the last country. And that is why at the last election they put their faith in us.

And whilst there is clearly more to do to bring down inflation and the do to bring down inflation and the cost of borrowing, it is also clear that we have turned a corner by taking the right decisions for our taking the right decisions for our country. We have taken the decisions to address the black hole in the public finances, to fix our foundations and to clear up the mess we inherited from the previous government. As a consequence, as I mentioned a moment ago, in the first half of this year we were the first is -- fastest growing economy in the G7, outpaced France, Germany, Japan and United States.

Since taking office this government has welcomed around £100 billion of investment into the UK, with 380,000 jobs being created over the same period. We have Redtape and change planning regulations to deliver 1.5 million new homes over the course of this Parliament and already nearly 100,000 new homes on large developments that were previously stuck in the planning system or were simply not progressing as fast as they should be are now being given the support they need to make that progress quickly. Just over one year, the Bank of England has cut interest rates five times.

The fact that means that someone on tracker mortgage with just over £200,000 will be about £100 a month better off. And crucially, real wages have risen more in the time since the last election than they did in the first 10 years of the previous government. So, the choice at the next Budget is clear. Over 14 years the last government made wrong choices time and again. There many Prime Minister's and many chancellors all embraced a cycle of austerity, debt and decline. We will never repeat that.

We will continue to invest in Britain's renewal, using every power at our disposal to drive forward and economy that works for working people. As I said, the Government does not respond as regulation and especially head of Budget. In any case, we are not writing the budget this far out. The Budget the Chancellor delivers in November will be carefully considered and designed to get the balance right between making working people better off, raising enough money to fund our public services and to get the country moving once again through investment and growth.

And of course it will undergo proper scrutiny from OBR. I was going to briefly address the taxes which are in the motion but I suspect I shall skip over this part of the speech. I'm getting a gentle indication from you that I have come to the right conclusion there. So, to conclude, if we are to get this country moving again, then investment both from businesses and from government is essential. We must therefore strike the right balance in our tax system, so we can put more money in the pockets of working people, while supporting the private sector to invest in growth and funding our public services.

Members on both sides of the House will have their own views on what the right balance is and I look forward to hearing

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those whose today and may I thank both honourable and right honourable members in advance for their contributions. Before I called the Liberal

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Before I called the Liberal Democrat spokesperson, all backbenchers will be on a time limit

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of four minutes. Four minutes. Thank you. May I start by adding

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Thank you. May I start by adding my voice and that of my party to others who have welcomed the honourable member for Chipping
13:40
Daisy Cooper Portrait Daisy Cooper MP (St Albans, Liberal Democrat)
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honourable member for Chipping Barnet to the Frontbench. Property taxes in this country, like so many other things, are broken and are hopelessly out of date. Council tax is regressive. Stamp duty is a transaction tax that slows growth. And business rates are a tax on bricks and mortar that bears no relationship whatsoever to the amount of money that a business might make. I have to say that it is quite extraordinary, I think, that the official opposition have chosen to debate property taxes, given that I can barely remember any discussion at all in the last Parliament about things they wanted to tackle.

They particularly did not tackle any of those three. So if it is true that the Labour government is now thinking about biting the bullet and looking at bringing forward fairer alternative to these, then I commend them for looking at this issue. But I would caution government. We do not want to see a repeat of the jobs tax fiasco. Going after property simply as a Treasury tax grab would be a disaster if the government does not set out a broader vision for housing as a whole and full property taxation.

Thus McFall property taxation. We agree with parts of the Conservative measure today. We agree with their cool to rule out Capital Gains Tax on primary residences. In the general election we Liberal Democrats that our way of reforming Capital Gains Tax in a way which will be fairer, it would reduce capital gains for two thirds of people already paying it, it would increase it the super wealthy and it would have raised more revenue than from the measures, carte blanche measures the Labour government had pursued.

So we agree with that. We also agree with the Conservatives that the property levy, as has been described in newspapers, would be a disaster. It would... It was not people from downsizing, it was slow economic growth. I hope it Ministers are indeed considering any of these

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things that they look at the reaction of... In my constituency, the average

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In my constituency, the average

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In my constituency, the average house price is £515,000. Would she agree with me that the property tax, as described by the government so far, would in fact be a tax on the far, would in fact be a tax on the south-east and London?

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I absolutely agree with my honourable friend. And he will know, as I do in my own constituency of Saint Albans, but there are many Saint Albans, but there are many people who have spent decades and decades and decades living in the property. They might abort it for a few thousand pounds, now it may be few thousand pounds, now it may be worth a huge amount. But they might be asset rich and cash poor. -- They be asset rich and cash poor. -- They might have bought it for a few thousand pounds.

They are incredible scared report they have seen in scared report they have seen in newspapers about the potential tax as has been described. So, there are as has been described. So, there are parts of the Conservatives motion that we agree with. However, we are open to the idea, in principle, of a land value tax. Because land value land value tax. Because land value taxes can in principle create more taxes can in principle create more fairness in the system. And they can produce a more efficient use of land.

But of course the devil is always in the detail. So it would depend on the design of any particular land value tax, any exemptions might be introduced. We Liberal Democrats have set our policies before about how we would replace the broken business rates system and replace it with a commercial landowner levy. This is an example of how the principle of land value could be applied to commercial land. If potentially also...

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Thank you. Many tourism industry businesses in Torbay raise concerns businesses in Torbay raise concerns around Airbnb and the impact both on safety and legality. Surely the safety and legality. Surely the Government should be publishing Government should be publishing their long awaited short-term lets registration scheme with a matter of urgency.

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urgency. I absolutely could not agree with my honourable friend more. I absolutely would love to see this registration program but we Liberal registration program but we Liberal Democrats have repeatedly said that is only the first step. Registration is actually something that the Airbnb type platforms want to see Airbnb type platforms want to see because it actually enables them to go and pinch properties from other platforms. It does not solve the platforms. It does not solve the problem which we have of lots of additional homes being used for Airbnb's not being used a young people and in fact anybody who wants to be able to rent a property in the to be able to rent a property in the area.

It is important local authorities have the power to get balance between tourism and having the people they need in their local area who can a full to live there.

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area who can a full to live there. I'm really grateful to her for giving way, she makes and its really giving way, she makes and its really good point. In my constituency we have seen a collapse in the long- term private rented sector, which has pushed hundreds of people in our communities out of our communities, not able to contribute or be part of the workforce or send a chill into our schools. The answer surely is to create short-term lets as a separate category of planning, just a second homes.

That would allow councils National Park to make sure there was enough homes for local people to

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live in. I grew my honourable friend and in the British Parliament there are in the British Parliament there are a number of amendments were tabled previous legislation the Conservatives had table, where we had tried to make that happen but had tried to make that happen but unfortunately they were not accepted unfortunately they were not accepted Going back to land value tax, it could also help with land banking. All of us in this house say we want All of us in this house say we want to build on brownfield first but the problem is that we have repeatedly tried to table amendments to make sure that local authorities can buy sure that local authorities can buy that land add land value rather than that land add land value rather than hope value by changing the way legislation works.

There are in principle some merit to this, principle some merit to this, considering a land value tax, but the devil will be in the detail. If the government 's forward proposals, the government 's forward proposals, we will scrutinise them closely. There is a couple of major omissions There is a couple of major omissions in the official opposition's motion. One is about business rates. Business rates is a broken system. We've heard repeated promises from the previous government and now this one about fixing business rates.

It's very disappointing that as yet we have not seen the ambition to replace business rates as a system. There is tinkering around the edges in the government's proposals, potentially making the worst comedy comes hospitality in particular. Another major omission is giving local authorities giving -- those

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real powers. I thank my honourable friend for

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I thank my honourable friend for giving way. Community land trust in my constituency is working to create my constituency is working to create much needed homes. They are often much needed homes. They are often hampered by access to finance and an outdated planning system. Does she outdated planning system. Does she agree with me that this government should focus on community-led development to deliver the much- needed homes, homes that the community will actually appreciate community will actually appreciate and want in the areas?

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and want in the areas? I agree with my honourable friend. Today, we are discussing friend. Today, we are discussing property taxation but taxation on property taxation but taxation on its own may well lead us down a similar road to the jobs tax fiasco. similar road to the jobs tax fiasco. I know my own constituency... I know I know my own constituency... I know this issue of Airbnb is a particular problem. There was the approval for problem.

There was the approval for officers -- offices to be turned into blocks of flats but no powers were given to local authorities to control how that can happen. That means in my constituency many young people can't afford to have a job unless they're living with mum and dad. They cannot afford to even rent a place, let alone get on the housing ladder in the first place. It is essential that the Government comes forward not only with the registration scheme for shorter modules -- rentals -- for short term rentals but that we get back balance right between getting homes for young people and allowing people to live in areas where they want to, and having tourism on the other hand.

Thank you.

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I have to notify the House that the King has signified his Royal the King has signified his Royal assent to the following acts. Universal Credit that. Armed Forces Commissioner Act 2025.

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Commissioner Act 2025. Thank you. I appreciate the opportunity to speak in this debate opportunity to speak in this debate and I wanted to take on the challenge that the shadow Chancellor mentioned about how we got to this point and the devastating point and the devastating consequences of that. Despite 27 tax rises under the last government, rises under the last government, debt rose from 60% to 100.5% of GDP. They were borrowing for day-to-day They were borrowing for day-to-day They were borrowing for day-to-day spending.

-- 105%. He talks about commitments and we know about that
13:50
Emily Darlington Portrait Emily Darlington MP (Milton Keynes Central, Labour)
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commitments and we know about that because that was the £22 billion black hole in unfunded commitments. And he says that property ownership is something he really cares about, but they were responsible for 6% fall in homeownership for people aged between 25 and 34. This was under his watch. This Government is building 1.5 million new homes, including record numbers of council housing and social properties, as well as renters' rights reform, as well as looking into mortgage reform.

This is a fair and more affordable housing makes for all. -- mix. And when we talk about what drove that fall in people owning homes, young people owning homes, we have to look at inflation. Inflation peaked at 11.1% under the last Government, Conservative government. Almost hitting Margaret Thatcher's record of 17%. High interest rates seem to be something that the party opposite is very comfortable with. In 2022, food inflation hit a 45 year high. In 2023, the UK recorded the highest inflation rate in Western Europe, the only country to have double-digit inflation.

Under this government, in only one year, we have had five interest rate cast -- cuts. And the real cost of that can be found in the number of children living in poverty. There was a 20% increase in child poverty between 2014 and 2024. Feedback demand -- food bank demand rose by 3772 % under the Conservative Government. And 2010, approximately 2.3 children living in relative poverty. In 2024, that was 4.5%. That is shameful.

It was the biggest fall in living standards on record and it is now, under this government, that wages are finally rising faster than prices. And we have seen the results of those cuts in spending, particularly in areas like youth services, where they had a 73% real terms cut under the last Government. It is this Government that is putting millions of pounds back in youth clubs. Is that what you want to cut? Finally come I want to talk about businesses.

The shadow Chancellor stood up there and said there was nobody on this side of the house that had experience in starting a business, running a business and growing a business. I have done that. He should get to know his colleagues before he makes those assertions. 300...

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Thank you. After a summer of remote tax rises, my constituents remote tax rises, my constituents are deeply concerned. They are already paying more because Labour broke their promise to freeze council tax, because they broke their promise not to increase their promise not to increase National Insurance, because they broke their promises to first-time buyers, small businesses and farmers. Thanks to Rachel Reeves farmers. Thanks to Rachel Reeves antibusiness policies, growth forecasts are collapsing. Borrowing costs are skyhigh and our national costs are skyhigh and our national finances are short.

Instead of looking at the reckless decisions,
13:54
Peter Fortune Portrait Peter Fortune MP (Bromley and Biggin Hill, Conservative)
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looking at the reckless decisions, Labour are now calculating the best way to raise taxes. My constituents are now worried that the Chancellor is eyeing up the family home. On the edge of Greater London, homes and broadly -- Bromley are expensive. The average house price is well over half £1 million. Rumours that the government might scrap the private residence relief would be devastating. It would slap my constituents with an average £33 £33,000 tax bill if they sell the family home.

If someone has scrimped or saved, been lucky enough to see the value of the hunger, they should not be handed a punitive tax will. Only serves to knock people back down when they're trying to get ahead.

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Residents in my constituency have

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Residents in my constituency have also been hit by this and other taxes. Does he agree with me that this increase in poverty taxes will be the final straw that breaks the camel's back for many residents?

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camel's back for many residents? I agree that this is causing real financial hardship. However, I do financial hardship. However, I do not believe this is the final straw that the Mayor of London confined to that the Mayor of London confined to damage my constituents and yours. I still sure he has more stores to lay still sure he has more stores to lay on the camel. As I say, this irresponsible policy would be economically ruinous. Imagine if economically ruinous. Imagine if somebody bought a house in Bromley and 2010 for £3500.

Today, it would and 2010 for £3500. Today, it would cost in the region of 550,000. If they wanted to move to a new area they wanted to move to a new area for work to be closer to family, without that relief, the tax bill would be somewhere in the region of would be somewhere in the region of £50,000. That's an iron watering bill which stops people from moving bill which stops people from moving -- eye watering bill, which stops -- eye watering bill, which stops people from moving.

Working people cannot afford to keep bailing out Labour.

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Thank you. It's wonderful, really, to be back for another really, to be back for another
13:56
Mark Ferguson Portrait Mark Ferguson MP (Gateshead Central and Whickham, Labour)
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really, to be back for another Opposition They debate. -- day. Imagine a debate about imagined proposals. It must be difficult because for so many years, this would have been the time they would have been preparing for the conference, preparing for the Budget. But they are not writing the Budget anymore and there will be scant attention paid... Thank God they are not writing the Budget because we have seen what their Budgets have led to. But I understand the frustration.

It's nice to see they have settled into the most comfortable aspect of being in opposition. As I said before in some of these debates, I have a huge amount of experience of the comfort of Opposition. You talk about the fears that you have, you rile up a bit of concern about young supporters -- among your supporters. But what they are not willing to do

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country. They don't have any. My right honourable friend makes

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My right honourable friend makes a good point. This is the nature of a good point. This is the nature of the easy early years of -- opposition. They are unwilling to opposition. They are unwilling to say how they would pay for these ideas. I am sick and tired of listening to the never, never from listening to the never, never from the benches opposite about where they are very confident and they are very confident and comfortable with the imaginary -- comfortable with the imaginary -- imaginarium of the Budget, but they are unable to come up with real are unable to come up with real proposals.

We know some of the proposals that have been floated by the party opposite, whether that is cutting maternity pay, whether that has been testing the State Pension, has been testing the State Pension, or whether that is attacking the minimum wage. We also know what the minimum wage. We also know what the impact of a Conservative budget means. It means the grotesque chaos means. It means the grotesque chaos of this trust and Kwasi Kwarteng's budget. I would call it a bunch -- bombshell.

That bombshell is going off in homes and communities in this country every single day. Their families today on a five year mortgages or longer who would have had low interest rates now, but despite the five interest cuts under this government, will be paying hundreds of thousands -- or thousands of pounds more per year. I would simply say to members opposite, they express concern for those invaluable homes. Many of those invaluable homes will have understandably significant mortgages. Many of their constituents, who they are concerned about today, will have seen their mortgages go up in hundreds or thousands of pounds through the actions of government which we are still living with, and which I'm

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afraid is a consequence of their government. The Treasury has been flying

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The Treasury has been flying workout then Mary Poppins in the workout then Mary Poppins in the last few weeks. If they are true, the Chancellor is preparing the most the Chancellor is preparing the most destructive raid on homeowners in living memory. Families across my constituency are bracing themselves
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Gregory Stafford Portrait Gregory Stafford MP (Farnham and Bordon, Conservative)
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constituency are bracing themselves for new taxes on home -- homes over £50,000. Capital gains taxes, a revaluation of council tax and even a land value tax. This is not reform, this is a sledgehammer aimed at aspiration, mobility and stability. Once again, it is the south and the south-east that will be punished the most. And Farnham, were the average house price now exceeds 600,000, families could face annual bills of nearly £5000 on top of mortgages, council tax and energy The levies.

Thousand Spring Budget already stripped to the limit. What about pensions my pensioners and down sizes? They will face this

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prospect of capital gains tax on their primary residence. Talks about pensioners, does he

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Talks about pensioners, does he groove me this is an extra pressure for them, given all the pressure was put on them because of their winter

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fuel payments? My honourable friends aptly

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My honourable friends aptly right. Once again this government is showing does not understand, does not value pensioners in this country and the sacrifice they have done. and the sacrifice they have done. Everyone pensioners, farmers, small business owners are seen as a cash cow for this government. And as you

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rightly say... The Conservative government raised taxes 25 times in the last

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raised taxes 25 times in the last Parliament. How many of those tax rises did he oppose? I do not want to correct honourable gentlemen by was not here to oppose or support any of those. With I would gently remind him of, use the word gently because I know the honourable member on the the honourable member on the Frontbench loves the way gently, so I said it twice now, the reality was I said it twice now, the reality was there was a pandemic and had to be funded and dealt with.

There was a war in Ukraine had be funded and as war in Ukraine had be funded and as we have gone back in history a bit, we had to deal with the deficit of the last Labour government left us. That is the reality of the That is the reality of the situation. I have given way to a couple of times. This is a tax on the family home and it will hit hardest those who have worked hard, saved responsibly and played by the rules. Let us be clear, this is not simply a question of numbers on a ballot sheet, it is about whether families can stay in the communities where they raise their children.

Whether pensioners can pass on their homes and whether young people will ever see the ladder of opportunity came down again. A Capital Gains Tax on main home will trap people in their properties, create a locked-in market and dry up the supply of homes. Transactions will slow, chainsaw break and first-time buyers, the very people Labour claims to champion, will be shut out even further. The government has tried to defend this agenda by talking about fairness. But there is nothing fair about a pensioner in Gretton being forced to sell their family home to pay the taxman, there is nothing fair about young families choosing between childcare and a new annual property levy.

And there's nothing fair about placing the heaviest burden on one region of the country simply because its housing stock is high in value. In truth this is a South and south-east tax dressed up as national fairness. dressed up as national fairness. This is part of a pattern, from scrapping the pension of your allowance that my honourable friend mentioned, to threatening VAT on private schools, punitive business tax rises, every single decision there seems to be out sending a political signal rather than supporting families or growing the economy.

And the consequences are plain to see. Falling business confidence, another year of negative hiring expectations and growing unemployment. Wasn't there White Paper meant to be called great written working? -- Get Britain working? Are we are seeing is Britain driving to a halt. The Chancellor may talk of fairness that she is stripping away the last century of working people, the roofs over their heads. Over taxation without clarity will paralyse the housing market, punish my constituents and undermine economic stability. If you tax homes, you tax hope and that is the surest way to drain ambition from our country.

We should be protecting families, not forcing them to sell up. We should be supporting aspiration, not taxing it into extinction.

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I think it bears repeating

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I think it bears repeating exactly the record that we, the Labour Government, had to deal with when we took over last year. We have when we took over last year. We have seen, we have had theories of the relationship between tax and growth
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Louise Sandher-Jones Portrait Louise Sandher-Jones MP (North East Derbyshire, Labour)
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see the impact of that theory and ideology over the last 14 years. Austerities cut the engines of this economy, leaving us with public services that were not delivering services that were not delivering for British people. Investment in for British people. Investment in our services in our country was cut and it's left us at the mercy of and it's left us at the mercy of global shocks, meaning we are less well-prepared and less well placed to withstand them. The upshot is that my constituency of North East Derbyshire has been seeing GP wait lists far too long, bus routes disappear from rural villages that really need them to give opportunities and connect families opportunities and connect families across my constituency.

We have seen NHS waiting list up, whether for serious surgeries, NHS dentistry or GP access. What this has resulted in GP access. What this has resulted in serious ill-health issues across my constituency, restriction of constituency, restriction of opportunity for young people and across the whole of North East Derbyshire, restriction on opportunity and growth are the very people that will drive growth in this economy, those who will start and drive small businesses. We've heard again and again from the heard again and again from the benches opposite about how they support the 1% and they have come support the 1% and they have come out fighting for that 1% very hard to date indeed.

-- Today indeed. They are very concerned about charges on people just starting out in life, who have just bought their first homes and yes, I would love to talk about charges that bear no resemblance to service and I'm particular referring to fleecehold and charges by estate management companies that there no relation to the services they provide. This is a real problem in my constituency and I know many of my colleagues here on the benches have also raised it repeatedly. In my constituency, a particular company have repeatedly raised service charges, said service charges are providing services that the constituents had not received and for very spurious reasons.

I've also heard about some residents are being. Play -- forced to pay for a playpark where there's no one in the area. Those starting out who got their mortgages on homes and want to get on and live their life they have been subject often thousands of pounds each year which is not delivering the services they deserve. I know this is a problem elsewhere. You have heard horror stories of how charges and ground rents have risen exponentially. None rents have risen exponentially.

None of these problems, which I think we can all agree is a problem, was dealt by the previous Conservative government. I did not notice any particular concern raised about the mother time and I know it is an issue we will continue to fight hard for and against on the side of the house. To conclude, I think a really important point when we look at what this Labour Government have achieved since coming to office, actually we have seen real wages rising faster than prices for the first time in a very long time.

Really cannot stress how important is we are seeing real wages rising. 3 million people across this country has seen the minimum wage rise. This is exactly the sort of thing that led me to join the Labour Party and is one of the proudest things I've seen we have achieved, wages for the poorest in society going up. Including those starting out their very first job, those under 21. I would also like to highlight another massive achievement we have done, we in the achievement we have done, we in the Labour Party believe that taxes is what you take to make sure you can deliver public services.

Lower taxes and lower public services are not going to result in a better rising living standards for those across our country. Yes, we have had to make some difficult decisions but what we have seen is the NHS waiting list falling month after month and I know my constituents have already

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started to feel that, why? Because they have told me so. (SPEAKS WELSH). Can I refer to

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(SPEAKS WELSH). Can I refer to the House, register of financial interest. As we look forward to a Budget for Christmas, as a representative of a rural agricultural community, this Labour agricultural community, this Labour Government last Autumn Budget remains a significant concern. remains a significant concern. Indeed, the wide divide between rural Wales and Westminster was made
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