Live Debate: Commons Chamber

Q15. What assessment her Department has made of the potential impact of planned changes to the PE and sport premium for primary schools on school budgets. (900533)

John Glen number 15. Mr. Speaker. >> Minister Mr. Speaker, we are determined to reverse the declining rates of inactivity for children and the stark inequalities we see around the country. We have confirmed 1 billion funding for PE and school sports over three years to create stronger local partnerships to revitalise PE and sports John Glen. sports John Glen.

15:23

Georgia Gould MP, Minister of State (Education) (Queen's Park and Maida Vale, Labour)

- -

I thank the Minister for that answer, but I visited Woodlands School and Matthew Shipley ten days

15:23

Rt Hon John Glen MP (Salisbury, Conservative)

- -

ago. He's been there for 17 years and works extremely hard to make and works extremely hard to make very limited resources work for the pupils, 60% of whom received the pupil premium. Now, he tells me pupil premium. Now, he tells me that 1700 £0 has been taken off the Budget that he has set for this Budget that he has set for this coming year, a really difficult settlement, and that's all taken settlement, and that's all taken from the PE Budget. So could the Minister explain what's happening for this immediate financial year, where there is a shortfall across numerous schools across the country and many in my Salisbury constituency? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

15:24

Georgia Gould MP, Minister of State (Education) (Queen's Park and Maida Vale, Labour)

- -

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. So that >> Thank you, Mr. Speaker. So that funding breaks down into 580 million to build the new PE and million to build the new PE and School Sports Partnership network. And at the moment, we are seeing too many children who don't have access to sports, who aren't meeting the recommended 60 minutes of activity. And it's really critical that we build something to support schools like the one that he mentioned with national bodies to provide those opportunities, 200 million is going into improved facilities, and the rest is going into a transition to support schools to, to through the through the year before we build that that new service.

So there will be transitional support in place, but we will build something that is better for schools. And I'm really happy to have a discussion with, with him to, to clarify matters.

15:25

Saqib Bhatti MP (Meriden and Solihull East, Conservative)

- -

Saqib Bhatti shadow Minister. >> Saqib Bhatti shadow Minister. >> Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I say to the Minister, you can't do more if the Minister, you can't do more if you're doing a 22% cut in funding. The whole nation is watching the World Cup. Millions of children have recently competed in their annual sports day, yet the government snuck out this massive cut in annual PE and sport sport funding during the recent May half term, the Secretary of State said this was a misunderstanding.

This is not a misunderstanding. It's 22% cut, which will have serious consequences for millions of children and it will hit the disadvantaged the hardest. Senior headteachers describe it as a funding cut to dressed up as an initiative to boost PE and sport in schools. It's hastily

15:25

Georgia Gould MP, Minister of State (Education) (Queen's Park and Maida Vale, Labour)

- -

Rolled out. It's a cut that will hurt the poorest children. Why is hurt the poorest children. Why is the government doing it? >> Here Mr Speaker only half of children meet the chief medical children meet the chief medical officer's recommendation of 60 minutes a day. We have. We. We. The minutes a day. We have. We. We. The current system, though well intentioned and. And despite huge efforts from from primary schools, is not doing what it needs to do to turn this around.

We know and we've been talking to national bodies that a partnership model that brings on the huge national resources we have, the energy from the World Cup, the different clubs that are out there, brings them together with local schools, is going to transform that investment. And this is £1 billion. We're investing over three years. And I was in local government. I was in local government when the party opposite cut youth clubs, cut community sports facilities. And we are investing.

15:26

Topical questions: Education

We come to topicals Ian Roome. >> Mr. speaker, the safety of our youngest children is of the utmost priority to this government. Early years settings should be places years settings should be places where children receive the best start in life and are safe and happy. That's why we will provide

15:27

Rt Hon Bridget Phillipson MP, The Secretary of State for Education (Houghton and Sunderland South, Labour)

- -

Ofsted with additional funding to strengthen safeguarding measures over £4.5 million this financial over £4.5 million this financial year, and at least £8 million in future years. This will mean an additional 3000 unannounced visits additional 3000 unannounced visits a year, an increased number of inspectors for larger settings and more face to face registration interviews before providers open. Alongside accelerating modernisation of Ofsted digital systems. This builds on recent systems. This builds on recent changes around whistleblowing so that staff can share concerns quickly and with total confidence.

I'll be setting out further changes shortly because, Mr. Speaker, nothing is more important than keeping our youngest children safe.

15:27

Ian Roome MP (North Devon, Liberal Democrat)

- -

In a room. >> In a room. >> Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This year, two of Devon's school food providers have shut down due to providers have shut down due to rapidly rising business and food costs. The government's School Fund Standards consultation closed on Standards consultation closed on the 12th of June. So will the Secretary of State now ensure that funding for school meals is sustained and that procurement supports healthy, fresh and local food?

15:28

Rt Hon Bridget Phillipson MP, The Secretary of State for Education (Houghton and Sunderland South, Labour)

- -

Mr. speaker, that's exactly our intention, and the plans that we're we're consulting on represent the we're consulting on represent the first time in over a decade that this has been properly looked at to make sure that when our children make sure that when our children are at school, the food is of the highest quality and is healthy and nutritious. And I've been really grateful to all of those who have shared their thoughts through that consultation. I'm also delighted that from September, this Labour government will be delivering a huge expansion of free school meals, making sure that all families in receipt of Universal Credit will now benefit.

15:28

Adam Thompson MP (Erewash, Labour)

- -

Adam Thompson. bringing together support for families in one of the most deprived communities in my constituency and across Derbyshire. constituency and across Derbyshire. As the government rolls out the hubs nationwide, what steps is the Minister taking to ensure they improve school readiness and help close attainment gaps before children even reach the classroom? Mr.

15:29

Olivia Bailey MP, Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State (Department for Education) (Equalities) (Reading West and Mid Berkshire, Labour)

- -

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and I thank my hon. Friend for all he has done to secure that new hub in done to secure that new hub in Cotmanhay. Mr. speaker, all the evidence shows that children who start school on the back foot find it so much harder to catch up. While the party opposite gutted sure start and let school readiness flatline, this government wants the best start for every child. That's why we're setting a stretching target for record proportions of children to be ready for school, and why we're transforming early education and family support services with record investment and a strategic focus that has long been lacking.

15:29

Rt Hon Laura Trott MP (Sevenoaks, Conservative)

- -

So Secretary of State Laura Trott. >> Mr. Speaker, the resignation of the Prime Minister this morning was the Prime Minister this morning was a damning indictment on the record of this government over the last two years, part of the Prime Minister's legacy will be teacher Minister's legacy will be teacher morale at an all time low. New. Any new data today shows that 72% of teachers believe the government has performed badly on education. Why does the Secretary of State think the country and so many teachers have lost faith in this government?

15:30

Rt Hon Bridget Phillipson MP, The Secretary of State for Education (Houghton and Sunderland South, Labour)

- -

Hear, hear. >> Mr. speaker, it's a funny old world where the right hon. Lady, praise an aide, the National Education Union. But there we are. Education Union. But there we are. Mr. speaker, I am proud of the action that this Labour government is taking on pay, on workload and addressing all of the many challenges that our teachers and leaders are facing, left behind by the party opposite, where we saw a shocking rise in child poverty, major social failure. The only policy, Mr.

Speaker, that she has is to cut state school budgets to give private schools their tax breaks back.

15:30

Rt Hon Laura Trott MP (Sevenoaks, Conservative)

- -

Shame Laura Trott. does. >> That she said she's proud of the action that they're taking on pay? But can I suggest that perhaps one of the reasons that teachers are of the reasons that teachers are angry is because they still don't know their pay. When this side of the House had to delay the teacher pay awards to this point in the year, the Education Secretary described it and I quote, as a complete dereliction of duty. So why does the Education Secretary think it's one rule for the Labour Party and one rule for everyone else?

15:31

Rt Hon Bridget Phillipson MP, The Secretary of State for Education (Houghton and Sunderland South, Labour)

- -

Mr. speaker, she left behind a pay award and zero funding to pay pay award and zero funding to pay for it. One of the first things that I did as Secretary of State was to deliver that award in full, was to deliver that award in full, fully funded something that she, when she was a Treasury Minister, totally derelict in her responsibilities. This Labour government will drive up school standards, will make change happen for teachers and for leaders, she says. It's nonsense that she only has one policy, and that is to cut state school budgets to invest in private schools.

Tax breaks. Mr. speaker, it's true. It's all they've got. They've got nothing to say on education, nothing to say on how they will tackle the major challenges that we are dealing with, especially on send. Sarah Coombes thank you, Mr. Speaker.

15:31

Sarah Coombes MP (West Bromwich, Labour)

- -

Forced adoptions were a shameful >> Forced adoptions were a shameful stain on the history of our country. I was very pleased to see the Secretary of State announce that the government will be apologising the government will be apologising for the scandal. And does she agree with me that the campaigners, who have worked so hard for so long to secure this decision, deserve our thanks for bringing to light something that for too long was shrouded in misplaced shame?

15:32

Rt Hon Bridget Phillipson MP, The Secretary of State for Education (Houghton and Sunderland South, Labour)

- -

Yeah. I agree with her. And campaigners have shown remarkable courage, bravery and persistence in bringing this shameful period in our country's history out of the shadows. Their voices have been central to ensuring that this history is recognised and it is for the. For this reason, and because of their tireless work, that this government will soon be making a full apology on behalf of the state. To all of those affected, I want to pay tribute to the campaigners. Mr. speaker, it is impossible to listen to them, to hear their testimonies and not recognise that a wrong was done to them, and that we have a responsibility to address that.

15:32

Olly Glover MP (Didcot and Wantage, Liberal Democrat)

- -

Olly Glover Mr. Speaker, on a recent visit to Stanford in the recent visit to Stanford in the Vale Pre-School, I saw the great service it provides to children and parents. However, it is facing rising demand without adequate rising demand without adequate funding and resources. So what steps is the Secretary of State taking to support early years education providers in meeting demand for the free childcare scheme?

15:33

Olivia Bailey MP, Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State (Department for Education) (Equalities) (Reading West and Mid Berkshire, Labour)

- -

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. And this >> Thank you, Mr. Speaker. And this is a critical question, because this government is determined to give every child the best start in life, and we're backing that life, and we're backing that commitment with record investment in early years, with £9.5 billion and huge ambition for the whole early years, infrastructure including Best Start family hubs and our early education and childcare review.

15:33

Jim Dickson MP (Dartford, Labour)

- -

Jim Dickson thank you, Mr. >> Jim Dickson thank you, Mr. Speaker. In Kent, the county Council has adopted a community of schools model for the allocation of schools model for the allocation of high needs funding, but schools in Dartford are concerned. This has led to a situation where access to led to a situation where access to funding is unfair, inconsistent and unpredictable, and it's left them unable to plan for the future because they can't be confident about how much funding they'll receive.

Would the Minister look at the model that Kent County Council have adopted to ensure it conforms with the high needs funding, operational guidance and the dedicated schools grant condition?

15:34

Georgia Gould MP, Minister of State (Education) (Queen's Park and Maida Vale, Labour)

- -

Mr. speaker, officials are meeting with Kent Council to understand the model. We are in favour of schools pooling resources to support children with special educational needs and disabilities, but there has to be safeguards and I would welcome the opportunity to speak further to understand his concerns. Speaker.

15:34

Anna Sabine MP (Frome and East Somerset, Liberal Democrat)

- -

We have a shortage. place with bursaries for those taking music PGCE. But after the numbers of students increased slightly, that bursary system was pulled. And we still don't have enough music teachers. Would the Minister consider reinstating that bursary scheme, which would allow us to have enough teachers coming through into the system to give all the children in this country the music education they deserve? Yeah.

15:34

Georgia Gould MP, Minister of State (Education) (Queen's Park and Maida Vale, Labour)

- -

Mr. Speaker, we review every year the bursaries across the system. There's a limited pot. So we look at where the the need is highest, but we will review it this year. And we'll also set up a National Centre for the Arts, which National Centre for the Arts, which will be there to support teacher training for for music as well as wider arts, as it's so critical to our agenda.

15:35

Gill Furniss MP (Sheffield Brightside and Hillsborough, Labour)

- -

Gill Furniss. >> Earlier this month, I met with Devon Andrews, whose daughter tragically passed away from suspected carbon monoxide poisoning suspected carbon monoxide poisoning while on holiday with her partner. In the wake of their passing, Devon is working tirelessly to raise awareness of the dangers of carbon monoxide and is partnering with local organisations to educate children and others. Will the Minister join me in congratulating Devon for campaigning to save lives and also ensure her daughter's memory is not forgiven?

15:35

Georgia Gould MP, Minister of State (Education) (Queen's Park and Maida Vale, Labour)

- -

Mr. speaker, I thank my hon. Friend for that important question, and I want to pay tribute to the and I want to pay tribute to the amazing work that she sets out. Thank Devon for their leadership and and extend my heartfelt and and extend my heartfelt condolences to to the family. It's so critical that we keep young people safe, and I really hope that they'll continue to to work with us to do so.

15:35

Ian Sollom MP (St Neots and Mid Cambridgeshire, Liberal Democrat)

- -

Ian Sollom thank you, Mr. Speaker. The High Court found in Speaker. The High Court found in April that the office for students had pre-determined its decision against the University of Sussex, against the University of Sussex, approached the investigation with a closed mind and acted beyond its legal powers. So what is the legal powers. So what is the Secretary of State's response to that finding, and what steps is she taking to restore confidence in the regulator?

15:36

Rt Hon Bridget Phillipson MP, The Secretary of State for Education (Houghton and Sunderland South, Labour)

- -

Yes. >> Mr. Speaker, since coming into government, we have reformed the regulator to make sure that there is a sharper focus on financial sustainability. There is a new sustainability. There is a new chair who is taking that work forward. The case that he refers to covered many, many years. And whilst he'll appreciate the limitations on what I can say about the case, he should be assured that we want to make sure that we have strong regulation around our universities that is most effective in making sure that they can uphold their responsibilities, whilst also remaining financially viable.

recently.

15:36

Ms Julie Minns MP (Carlisle, Labour)

- -

Visited the Chancellor's Family Hub, one of several hubs. It is Hub, one of several hubs. It is indeed a very fine hub, one of several hubs set up by Cumberland Council to fill a need left by the Conservatives short sighted decision to abolish Surestart. Will the Minister please assure Carlisle families that this government will ensure all family hubs receive the support they need to give children the best start?

15:37

Olivia Bailey MP, Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State (Department for Education) (Equalities) (Reading West and Mid Berkshire, Labour)

- -

Hear, hear. her constituents and join her in congratulating her council for their work. She's right to condemn the outrageous cuts to Surestart the outrageous cuts to Surestart under the party opposite. And she's right also that councils and voluntary organisations have stepped up to fill the gap. This government will have their back, not just through our £900 million investment, 3 million in Cumberland, but also driving the reforms needed to link up services and reconnect our communities.

15:37

Sarah Dyke MP (Glastonbury and Somerton, Liberal Democrat)

- -

Temperatures are forecast to exceed 35Â°C in Somerset this week, and some classrooms are set to and some classrooms are set to breach safe working thresholds by as much as ten degrees centigrade, risking serious disruption to learning. What immediate steps is the Secretary of State taking to protect pupils and staff from this extreme heat? And what dedicated funding will be made available to schools to retrofit for heat resilience, to prevent repeated disruption to education in future heat waves? Yeah.

15:38

Rt Hon Bridget Phillipson MP, The Secretary of State for Education (Houghton and Sunderland South, Labour)

- -

Mr. Speaker, we do recognise the need to make sure that as we as we refurbish and rebuild schools across our country, we make sure across our country, we make sure that they are well placed to cope with some of the fluctuations in temperature that we're seeing. Sometimes the hot weather that we're experiencing at the moment. It's of course, a matter for headteachers, for school leaders as to how they manage that best. Schools, for example, can consider relaxing uniform rules during hot weather to make sure that pupils are comfortable, and also the Department for Health and Social Care, for example, recommends that pupils should not take part in vigorous physical activity when the weather is exceptionally hot.

But I trust school leaders to do the right thing to maintain wellbeing of both staff and students.

15:38

Steve Yemm MP (Mansfield, Labour)

- -

Steve Yemm thank. >> You, Mr. Speaker. I recently joined a class of year five pupils from Saint Peter's School in my constituency on a visit to the constituency on a visit to the National Holocaust Museum in Laxton, I saw first hand places such as this are vital to making sure that lessons about the Holocaust are absorbed by young people. I wonder if the Minister would therefore commit to visiting the museum with

**** Possible New Speaker ****

me in a local school. Mr. speaker, I'd like to thank

**** Possible New Speaker ****

Mr. speaker, I'd like to thank my hon. Friend for his advocacy of the National Holocaust Museum. It plays a critical role in ensuring plays a critical role in ensuring children are educated about the Holocaust. It's a key priority for the government, and I would, of

15:39

Georgia Gould MP, Minister of State (Education) (Queen's Park and Maida Vale, Labour)

- -

course, commit to visiting with him and really welcome his work. >> Alison Griffiths thank you.

**** Possible New Speaker ****

Alison Griffiths thank you. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My constituent. Joanna, has worked tirelessly to highlight the lack of a dedicated selective mutism pathway in West Sussex. Children are being left without the support they need. So will the Secretary of State commit to ensuring this gap in provision is finally addressed?

15:39

Alison Griffiths MP (Bognor Regis and Littlehampton, Conservative)

- -

Yeah.

15:40

Georgia Gould MP, Minister of State (Education) (Queen's Park and Maida Vale, Labour)

- -

Mr. Speaker, we are working with experts nationally to develop new national inclusion standards and national inclusion standards and specialist provision packages to set out the need that we want to see, the need we want to see see, the need we want to see supported within mainstream schools and specialist schools. And I'm very happy to discuss this further with the hon. Member.

15:40

Liz Twist MP (Blaydon and Consett, Labour)

- -

Liz Twist thank you, Mr. Speaker. >> About 40,000 children each year require a brain injury, and they're currently recorded, if at all, under a range of broad categories. under a range of broad categories. So will the Minister meet with me and Ukabif to look at how we can and Ukabif to look at how we can better record acquired brain injuries in a special category to deal with their specific

**** Possible New Speaker ****

neurological needs? Mr. speaker, I'd be very happy to meet with my hon. Friend to to to meet with my hon. Friend to to discuss this. We've been talking to families of children with neurological issues, and it's a

15:40

Georgia Gould MP, Minister of State (Education) (Queen's Park and Maida Vale, Labour)

- -

neurological issues, and it's a very important issue. >> Helen Morgan Mr. Speaker. >> Schools in. >> North Shropshire receive.

**** Possible New Speaker ****

North Shropshire receive. Around an average of £6,460 per head last year, compared to a head last year, compared to a national average of around £7,910. And outcomes at GCSE and key stage four are consistently lower than the national average. So will the Secretary of State meet with me to discuss what resources can be put discuss what resources can be put in place to improve outcomes for children in North Shropshire. children in North Shropshire.

15:41

Helen Morgan MP (North Shropshire, Liberal Democrat)

- -

Mr. speaker, we are investing in in schools and increasing investment and I would be very happy to to meet with the hon. Member to to discuss their concerns.

15:41

Helen Hayes MP (Dulwich and West Norwood, Labour)

- -

The Select Committee. >> The Select Committee. >> Helen Hayes Mr. >> Speaker, I know that members. >> Across this House will have been

**** Possible New Speaker ****

Across this House will have been sickened and devastated to hear reports of the abuse suffered by reports of the abuse suffered by baby Preston Davy prior to his murder at the hands of his adoptive parents, in whose home he should have been safe. It is of concern that Preston was seen by several different professionals in the weeks and months before his murder. The Children's Wellbeing and Schools Act legislates for stronger safeguarding arrangements, including the introduction of multi-agency child protection teams in every local authority area.

In light of the serious safeguarding failings in Preston's case and other recent cases of children who should have been safe in the care of the state, can the Secretary of State set out the expected timetable for implementing these reforms, and how quickly we can expect to see stronger safeguarding practice consistently nationwide?

15:42

Rt Hon Bridget Phillipson MP, The Secretary of State for Education (Houghton and Sunderland South, Labour)

- -

Mr. speaker, I am grateful to >> Mr. speaker, I am grateful to the chair of the Select Committee for raising this shocking case. Our thoughts must be with all of those who loved a new Preston, and it is right that the evil abusers that right that the evil abusers that committed the sickening and shocking crimes are now behind bars. And, Mr. Speaker, the House can be assured that we take this extremely seriously. It's why I have asked for independent experts to look at Oldham Council, Blackpool Teaching Hospitals NHS trust and the regional adoption agency to look carefully at all of the issues and concerns that have been raised through this process.

The Child Safeguard Practice Review is commencing, led by the local safeguarding Partnership with the National Child Safeguarding Practice Review, working closely to make sure it is of the highest quality. And in response to the question that the chair of the Select Committee asked, Mr. Speaker, it is our intention to rule that out by March. The Children's Wellbeing in Schools Act represents the biggest upgrade to child protection legislation in a generation, and it is through those changes that we will make sure we keep all of our children safe from harm.

15:43

Rt Hon Suella Braverman KC MP (Fareham and Waterlooville, Reform UK)

- -

Salisbury the horrific sexual abuse and murder of baby Preston Ed abuse and murder of baby Preston Ed Davey has shocked the nation. It's been reported that adoption now the agency that placed baby Preston agency that placed baby Preston with his murderer, and Oldham Council, the agency responsible for his safety, missed several safeguarding reports and potentially neglected to stop what was a preventable death. My question is very simple for the Secretary of State amongst the Army of Health visitors, social workers and medics who saw baby Preston, why did nobody raise the alarm? And what action is being taken now to safeguard the welfare of those children under the care of Oldham Council? Now.

15:44

Rt Hon Bridget Phillipson MP, The Secretary of State for Education (Houghton and Sunderland South, Labour)

- -

Mr. Speaker, I have just set out to the House. The action that we are taking. This is extremely serious. It is why it was an urgent priority for this incoming government to update legislation to make sure we do everything within our power to keep children safe. I have set out the position in terms of the action that will follow and that alongside that, I am glad, Mr. Speaker, that justice has been served. We cannot bring Preston back, but we can make sure that we do everything within our power to stop this happening to other children in future.

much.

15:45

Jonathan Davies MP (Mid Derbyshire, Labour)

- -

Mr. Speaker. The Saint Ralph. and Nottinghamshire, but the trust is facing extreme financial difficulties despite considerable extra support it has received from extra support it has received from the Department for Education. We have, as East Midlands MP has written to the Department about this. But if the. If Ministers could progress it to see if there's anything else that we can do, and also to look at the Academy funding model more generally, because the financial risk that is built into it does undermine the education of our children at times.

15:45

Rt Hon Bridget Phillipson MP, The Secretary of State for Education (Houghton and Sunderland South, Labour)

- -

Mr. speaker, I'm grateful to my hon. Friend for raising this. I know many colleagues in the region, know many colleagues in the region, with schools served by the trust, have raised similar concerns, and I've been more than happy to make sure that he and any other interested members of Parliament are able to meet. To discuss this further, it is clear that across the system there have been a number of failings when it comes to financial oversight, where it has come to accountability, and that's why we are taking action around Matt level inspection, and why we will take further action to make sure that public money that is intended to benefit children in their schools and in education is not wasted in some of the shocking ways that we have sadly seen by the party opposite.

15:46

Lincoln Jopp MP (Spelthorne, Conservative)

- -

Lincoln Jopp. >> Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Town Farm Primary from Stanwell in my Spelthorne constituency. Their mini parliament visited me here this parliament visited me here this morning and they asked me some very good questions, including what's my view of the new member for Makerfield? But anyway, we'll leave that one where it is the answer. They think their head. Mr. Bharti has just been given the OBE in the King's Birthday Honours list. These things do not come up with the rations.

Would the Secretary of State please put on record her. Thanks to Mr. Bharti and all the team at Town Farm Primary School in Stanwell for the outstanding job they do.

15:46

Rt Hon Bridget Phillipson MP, The Secretary of State for Education (Houghton and Sunderland South, Labour)

- -

Yes. extend my congratulations to Mr. Bharti and the brilliant team at Town Farm Primary School. I hope that all of the pupils had a wonderful visit here to Parliament. wonderful visit here to Parliament. Of course, this is something that we, as members of Parliament can encourage our schools to take up because there is funding available to make that happen, and I hope that more children will be able to benefit from the investment that has gone into Parliament and the education Centre to then.

15:47

Dame Meg Hillier MP (Hackney South and Shoreditch, Labour )

- -

Meg Hillier. >> The Secretary of State. >> Is aware of the challenges of population dropping in my constituency, which is leaving some constituency, which is leaving some schools closed. Can she advise what work the department is doing so that if there is a need to create housing on those sites for future pupils, that the department can more quickly move to changing the designation of education sites for other uses?

15:47

Rt Hon Bridget Phillipson MP, The Secretary of State for Education (Houghton and Sunderland South, Labour)

- -

Mr. speaker, my hon. Friend is right to identify this issue. I know it's something that she has long argued for in this House, both that we need to make sure we're managing declines in pupil numbers, managing declines in pupil numbers, but also that we're creating more social and affordable housing, including for her constituents. There are a number of ways in which There are a number of ways in which we're supporting schools at the moment, where space is opening up through expanding nursery provision within our schools, through expanding inclusion bases and more support around send.

But we are looking very carefully, and I can assure her, looking very carefully at this issue, of how we can make sure that sites are well used, both for educational purposes or where they may be able to serve other purposes into the future.

15:48

Adrian Ramsay MP (Waveney Valley, Green Party)

- -

Sir. >> Mr. speaker, primary school headteachers in my constituency of Waveney Valley tell me that the cut to funding for PE will have a real impact on opportunities for young people based on their Budget calculations, and especially in calculations, and especially in rural areas. What assurances can the government give me that young people, especially in rural areas like Waveney Valley, will not be losing out on vital sporting opportunities? Yeah.

15:48

Georgia Gould MP, Minister of State (Education) (Queen's Park and Maida Vale, Labour)

- -

Minister Mr. Speaker, we're putting £1 billion over three years to build the new sports network. to build the new sports network. That's money that will be working with all sorts of different partners to support schools, bring partners to support schools, bring resources together and put funding directly into school budgets. And we'll be setting out more plans to we'll be setting out more plans to reassure primary school heads of of the our commitment to increasing activity for for children and young people.

15:49

Mr Bayo Alaba MP (Southend East and Rochford, Labour)

- -

Final question. >> Colleagues across the benches of this chamber, I have heard from countless families let down by the existing system. One particular existing system. One particular upsetting case saw a bright young boy expelled from infant school due to mishandling of his complex needs. Thankfully, he later was re-enrolled thanks to the tireless work of his mother. Does the Minister agree that the reforms outlined in this government's White Paper will support productive early intervention and create a fairer, more fulfilling school experience for every child?

15:49

Georgia Gould MP, Minister of State (Education) (Queen's Park and Maida Vale, Labour)

- -

Mr. out exactly that experience watching their children fall further behind, having to battle for the support that they for the support that they desperately need. Our reforms are about putting early intervention in place, supporting children at the earliest possible point and transforming the system so parents no longer have to battle to get need. Now Now come Now come to Now come to the Now come to the statement. Now come to the statement. Deputy Prime Minister David Lammy.

15:50

Ministerial statement: G7 Summit

Mr. speaker, I'm taking this statement on behalf of the Prime Minister. I spoke earlier today on Minister. I spoke earlier today on the Prime Minister's record across the country, stabilising the economy, driving down waiting lists

15:50

Rt Hon David Lammy MP, Deputy Prime Minister (Tottenham, Labour)

- -

in the National Health Service, lifting half a million children out lifting half a million children out of poverty. But I want to start this statement, Mr. Speaker, by paying tribute to his record on paying tribute to his record on foreign policy, which is second to none. As Foreign Secretary. When we none. As Foreign Secretary. When we entered government, I saw firsthand the Prime Minister rebuild our the Prime Minister rebuild our relationship across the world. The EU reset we led put Britain at the heart of Europe once again embracing President Zelensky on the steps of Downing Street, on one of Ukraine's darkest days was symptomatic of the leadership he shown across and across Europe and in relation to the threats from Vladimir Putin.

Principled, courageous and on the right side of history, he drove investment to working people with five trade deals in two years. And when it came to the most sober decision a Prime Minister has to make on a matter of life and death and war. When others were pushing for the UK to jump head first into another war in the Middle East, Keir Starmer stood strong, stood firm and said, no, this is not our war. Putting British soldiers and the national interest first, he made Britain safer, rebuilt Britain's reputation around the world and drove investment and growth that will support working families in Britain for decades to come, regardless of your politics, Mr.

Speaker, everyone in this House owes a debt of gratitude to the Prime Minister on Foreign Affairs. Mr. speaker, I will turn now to the specifics of the G7 summit. Let me start with Ukraine. Mr. Speaker. Once again, Russia chose to launch a huge attack on Ukraine on the eve of an international summit, in a show of their disdain for diplomacy, they killed innocent civilians in Kyiv and Kharkiv and hit the 11th century Pechersk Lavrov, a sacred site at the very heart of Ukrainian culture.

The G7 has a shared sense of outrage at Russia's conduct. But, Mr. Speaker, we also have a shared sense that this situation is changing, too. Ukraine has a newfound momentum. They are increasingly able to push Russia back on the battlefield, and in Moscow, the mood is turning against the war. Almost half a million Russians have now lost their lives. Each month they mobilise around 3000 people, and each month they lose the same number on the battlefield, with no progress to show for it.

At the same time, the Russian economy is struggling and may already be in recession. And so we will seize this moment by continuing our military support, providing more air defence missiles and our biggest package of drones to date, financed with the profits of seized Russian assets. We're providing vital export finance to help rebuild Ukraine's energy system, and we're going further to increase the pressure on Russia's economy, because we know the impact that this is having.

My right hon. Friend. The Prime Minister announced 70 new sanctions at the summit, bringing the UK to around 500 sanctions on Russia this year alone, aimed at breaking up their military procurement supply chains, the illicit finance network they use to circumvent sanctions and targeting. Of course, the Russian shadow fleet. And, Mr. Speaker, I'm sure the whole House will want to pay tribute to the Royal Marines who interdicted a Shadow Fleet vessel in the channel last week alongside officers from the National Crime Agency.

Mr. speaker, this is the moment to ramp up the pressure. President Zelensky is clear that he is ready to talk, but this must recognise the reality on the ground and Ukraine's newfound momentum. Any negotiations would need to be on the basis of the current line of control, not on Putin's unrealistic demand for territory that has failed to win on the battlefield. And, Mr. Speaker, Russia should note the level of unity shown on this point and the G7's pledge of unwavering support for Ukraine that will continue until we reach a just and lasting peace.

Mr. speaker, let me turn now to the Middle East. Getting to the deal between the United States and Iran has been bumpy, but it creates a moment of opportunity to bring down the cost of living for the British people and put the Middle East on the on a better path, a better path, which is vital for global stability. We are now working to help implement this deal to ensure that the region doesn't go back to war, and that the 60 day negotiation period ends in a longer term settlement.

Mr. speaker, negotiations are the best way to secure our aims, one that Iran is never allowed to have a nuclear weapon, two, that they stop their attacks across the region, and three, that the Strait of Hormuz is reopened to shipping with no restrictions and no tolls. And that's why with President Macron, we have brought together an international coalition ready to help reassure shipping. We are in talks now about how to deploy this multilateral military mission in support of the deal, and to explore immediate support for demining in the strait.

But, Mr. Speaker, we should also place this in the broadest possible context, recognising the need to make progress across the region. The extremely fragile ceasefire between Israel and Lebanon must be implemented in full, and I call on the Israeli government to show restraint to that end, including in its use of inflammatory language. The G7 agreed to work together in support of their process and strengthen the Lebanese government so that they can regain the monopoly on the use of force in the country.

And, Mr. Speaker, on Palestine, I want to speak very frankly. Israel must stop blocking aid into Gaza. It must stop settlement expansion in the E1 area of East Jerusalem, which threatens the very viability of the two state solution and stop settler violence across the West Bank. We have a precious opportunity now to move on from the violence of the last three years in the interests of innocent people across the region. This should be our aim, bringing all our partners together in that effort.

And, Mr. Speaker, significant progress was also made last week on migration, with a strong G7 statement outlining practical common steps on returns and sanctioning the criminal gangs. And with President Macron, my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister took a big step in our bilateral cooperation, agreeing to extend the groundbreaking Sandhurst agreement, which has already prevented more than 4000 migrant crossings into the UK. Under this deal, new police units and riot squads will be deployed to French beaches to stop migrant boats before they take to the water.

This is vital and important work, and Mr. Speaker, it's because of steps like this and the approach of this government that we have removed 67,000 people with no right to be in our country. We've removed 9000 foreign national offenders, and we're closing asylum hotels, and we're turning the tide on these issues after years of failure. Mr. speaker, under the last government, net migration reached almost 1 million, with reduced it by 82% in two years. UK immigration figures are the lowest today since 2012.

Where they failed. Mr. speaker, we are delivering. And, Mr. Speaker, the same is true on growth and investment. On the eve of the summit, my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister welcomed Prime Minister. The Prime Minister of Japan to Downing Street to deepen our strategic partnership after they met in Tokyo in January. It shows the value of building these bonds, Mr. Speaker, because they agreed more than £18 billion worth of investment into this country, creating tens of thousands of new jobs in infrastructure, offshore wind and financial services.

That was followed at the summit itself, with deals for a further £1.3 billion of investment from France and India into clean energy and AI, creating more than 13,000 new jobs in Manchester and Leeds and in Birmingham. And with India's Prime Minister Modi. My right hon. Friend the Prime Minister agreed the entry into force of the UK India Free Trade Agreement. This is the UK's quickest ever, turning around from signing to entry into force, and it's one of the biggest deals either country has ever done.

It will boost British GDP by £4.8 billion, boost real wages for British workers by 2.2 billion. Finally, Mr. Speaker, the House will note that tomorrow marks the 10th anniversary of the Brexit referendum. We know the world has changed fundamentally since 2016. We know that Brexit has damaged the economy. And so there's no doubt in our mind where the national interest lies today and that it's closer cooperation with Europe. So the EU Commission president, Ursula von der Leyen, my right hon.

Friend the Prime Minister, agreed to intensify work deep on our economic ties, and we look forward to a further and forthcoming second UK EU summit at the earliest opportunity. Mr. speaker, unity on Ukraine to protect our collective security, unity on the Middle East, to bring down the cost of living and bring back stability. Progress on tackling illegal migration. Driving down the numbers day after day. Huge new investments into the UK, creating new opportunities and changing people's lives. Real results for the British people.

And Mr. Speaker, at the same time, this government has brought down mortgage rates and inflation to help with the cost of living and help them fight the global forwards. We're supporting families with the summer savings package to spend time together this August, banning social media to keep our children safe, lifting half a million people out of poverty, boosting workers rights and renters rights, bringing down an NHS waiting list at the highest rate for 17 years. This government's focussed on what really matters, serving the National, delivering for the British people and I commend this statement to the House today.

16:03

Rt Hon Kemi Badenoch MP (North West Essex, Conservative)

- -

Can I just say the extra time was given because I thought we'd lot more on G7. I didn't know it lot more on G7. I didn't know it was going to be on home policy. Not to worry the opposition Kemi

**** Possible New Speaker ****

Badenoch. Well. Can I thank the Deputy Prime

**** Possible New Speaker ****

Can I thank the Deputy Prime Minister for advance sites of his statement? And he is right, Mr. Speaker, when he says everyone in Speaker, when he says everyone in this House owes a debt to the Prime Minister, but it is most certainly not a debt of gratitude. It's the other type of debt that we owe. So the right hon. Gentleman has come the right hon. Gentleman has come to the House to update us on a meeting he did not attend. He stood in for the Prime Minister at PMQs during the G7.

Now he is standing in again to tell us what happened at the G7. Where is the Prime Minister? Where is the Prime Minister? He says he says he needs to stay in post for three months, but then doesn't come to Parliament to do his job. He wants to go on a farewell tour. While the new member for Makerfield is asking for a summer holiday to work out what he thinks. In the meantime, no one is in charge and Britain is not being governed.

The Prime Minister gave assurances at the G7 about military support to Ukraine. He gave those assurances after the defence secretary resigned because he was being forced to make decisions that would increase the risk to our armed forces. The Prime Minister gave assurances about sanctions on Russian oil and gas. While here the government was lifting those sanctions. He is saying one thing abroad, Mr. Speaker, but doing the opposite at home, and these are just some of the many reasons he had to resign this morning.

But apparently, for some mysterious reason, he must stick around until September, given the Prime Minister has resigned. Why is he hanging around? The Deputy Prime Minister had to change his statement so that we all knew that the EU reset summit has been postponed.

**** Possible New Speaker ****

Yeah. That's not happening anymore. So what's he hanging around for? Why are we sending a non Prime Minister are we sending a non Prime Minister to the most important NATO summit in a generation? Why? It is because in a generation? Why? It is because this psychodrama is about the Labour Party, not the country. Labour Party, not the country. Labour are still trying to tell us that everything is fine. That's what the Deputy Prime Minister was what the Deputy Prime Minister was saying.

Everything is fine. He's given us a statement telling us about a G7 summit. He did not go to. The few Labour MPs who bothered to turn up were nodding along, pretending to be listening intently. But in a few minutes they will all scurry back to their offices and focus on their real priority lobbying for jobs in the next government. So can I take the opportunity to congratulate the right hon. Member for Makerfield on his election, Mr. Speaker, but can I just point out that the new member for Aberdeen South is here? He is here.

The Member for Makerfield is not here because he is more interested in his leadership bid than Britain's national security. Two weeks ago, the Defence Secretary and armed Forces Minister as well quit the government because Labour's failure to fund defence is putting on national security at risk. This will not disappear from the Member for Makerfield entry just because he won a by election. If he becomes Prime Minister, he will be briefed by the heads of our military about Britain's reducing ability to defend herself, let alone Ukraine.

As the deputy Prime Minister said, in order to fund defence, we need more money, not more speeches at summits. He will find that Britain is not able to borrow any more money. He will find that it has all been spent on welfare. He will realise that this government is providing export finance to rebuild Ukraine's energy system, while crippling our own, reducing sanctions on Russian oil while sanctioning oil from Aberdeen. Only one thing matters at the G7 and NATO summits, Mr. Speaker, and that is our collective national security.

Let me I'm sorry, the Minister is Chuntering can he say anything about why the defence Secretary resigned? If they're all living in La La land, I'm going to wake them up. Wake them up. She stopped pretending that everything is fine because it is not. Let me remind him, Mr. Speaker, that the Prime Minister is resigning because he failed on national security, failed. He appointed a known security risk as our ambassador to Washington. He is destroying our energy security, which is national security, and he is refusing to fund the defence investment plan needed to keep our country safe.

The G7 summit reminds us, Mr. Speaker, that we are living in serious times, yet the government is paralysed and our country is in limbo. It is time for Labour to start putting country before party and to put Britain's national interest first.

16:07

Rt Hon David Lammy MP, Deputy Prime Minister (Tottenham, Labour)

- -

Deputy Prime Minister. >> Deputy Prime Minister. >> Well, Mr. Speaker, this is the first occasion I've been opposite first occasion I've been opposite the Leader of the Opposition and can I thank her? We're actually can I thank her? We're actually friends behind all of this, but can I thank her for her generosity and constructive suggestions on this occasion? It's always good to know that I can count on her support, but can I remind the House that this is the same Leader of the Opposition who previously suggested that we should empty chair the G20, that we should not bother turning up at the NATO summit.

And she wanted to jump into war with Iran without thinking through the consequences. I'm proud to serve a Prime Minister whose hard work has made this country stronger and much fairer than the Britain we inherited from the party opposite. She knows that the Prime Minister has rebuilt Britain's international alliances. She can't deny the five major trade deals that we struck under our watch that she failed to do. She knows that we've led the coalition of the willing to back Ukraine with renewed our partnership with Europe, we're delivering the biggest boost to defence spending since the Cold War.

I'm proud of all of that. Now she asks about defence. The work continues to finalise the defence investment plan. We're already investing 270 billion over this Parliament. The Defence Investment Plan will deliver another unprecedented increase in defence spending and when it's published shortly, we will set out. Every government department is contributing to defence. She talks about oil and gas. Oil and gas will be part of our energy mix for many years to come, delivering enough clean energy products to power 23 million homes, led by Great British Energy, headquartered in Aberdeen, of course, headquartered in Aberdeen, the PM secured £9 billion worth of Japanese investment in offshore wind last weekend.

And of course, the Leader of the Opposition would rip that all up. She talks about Russian oil. The party opposite is wrong about Russian oil. All sanctions on Russian oil remains in place. We're imposing new sanctions that ever that ever existed under the party opposite. I look forward to another opportunity to sit across from the Leader of the Opposition in the months ahead.

16:10

Fleur Anderson MP (Putney, Labour)

- -

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. praise for the Prime Minister's success in restoring the UK's standing in the world, including standing in the world, including with the EU. My right hon. Friend has welcomed the G7 commitment to accelerating humanitarian efforts for Gaza and ending violence on the West Bank, and I and Putney residents will support him and the G7's efforts in this. Will he agree that Israel must stop the E1, Jerusalem and West Bank illegal expansion and that the G7 must rebuild serious momentum behind the two state solution?

16:11

David Lammy. Friend. Yes, yes, yes. And she will be pleased that this was an issue that was discussed at the G. G G7 Leaders Summit, and I would encourage her to look at the statement that was put out, particularly in relation to peace in the Middle East.

16:11

Rt Hon Ed Davey MP (Kingston and Surbiton, Liberal Democrat)

- -

Sir Ed Davey, leader of the Liberal Democrats. start by recognising the courage it took for the Prime Minister to make his statement today? Politics can his statement today? Politics can be brutal, but as we debate issues robustly in this chamber, rightly, I think we can recognise that we are all human beings here and take account of that. But after years of this chaos with multiple psychodramas and short lived prime Ministers under the Conservatives and now under Labour, the country is impatient for real change.

It shows once again how broken our political system is, and that only by fixing that can we finally end this chaos and instability. Mr. speaker, there will be another motion to reflect properly. But can I now simply thank the Prime Minister for his service? Turning to the statement, progress on more support for our brave Ukrainian allies is indeed welcome, and the Deputy Prime Minister knows he has cross-party support for that. But at the G7, did the government raise the proposal of using frozen Russian assets around the world to support Ukraine? And if this was not raised, why not? Meanwhile, Donald Trump is boasting about his ceasefire with Iran.

But the art of the deal. This is not. Here's a Netanyahu's idiotic war, backed by the Conservatives and reform has achieved absolutely nothing. It's wrought havoc on the global economy and on our economy. As the deputy Prime Minister said, and the Prime Minister was right to keep us out of that war. But given how Netanyahu seems determined to undermine any ceasefire, what discussions did the Prime Minister have with allies at the G7 to bring real pressure on both him and Hezbollah to end the fighting? Mr.

speaker, all this shows how important it is for Britain to strengthen our defences and to deepen our partnership with dependable allies, especially our neighbours in Europe. So will the Prime Minister confirm whether or not the Defence Investment Plan will be published before the NATO summit? We think on these benches that is vital so we can start repairing the damage done by conservative defence cuts and at the NATO summit have real leverage and influence. So can the Deputy Prime Minister tell us, will the Defence investment Plan go to the right hon.

Member for Makerfield for his urgent sign off? Finally, Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister had promised a crucial summit with the EU next month to start repairing the damage done by that party. Now, reports say that this has been postponed because of the Prime Minister's resignation. Does the Deputy Prime Minister agree that this is a disaster? Fixing our relationship with Europe is far too urgent for these discussions to be postponed yet again. So can I ask the Deputy Prime Minister to urge the right hon.

Member for Makerfield to reject the the government's current timid reset and instead push for our growth and defence partnership, including single market membership, free from the out-of-date redlines the current Prime Minister imposed five years ago.

16:15

Rt Hon David Lammy MP, Deputy Prime Minister (Tottenham, Labour)

- -

The Prime. >> Very grateful to the hon. Gentleman for the manner in which he put his remarks and for his he put his remarks and for his tribute to the Prime Minister for his public service. And, of course, I will relay that to the Prime Minister when I see him later today. He raises Ukraine, and I'm pleased to confirm that I hope to go to the Ukraine Recovery Conference later this week to continue to discuss these issues. And he's right to raise the issue of frozen Russian Russian assets.

That remains a long standing item across G7 nations. He recognises that there are European countries who are more exposed than others, and I hope that we can break the deadlock soon. He raises, of course, the deal in the Strait of Hormuz. It's a fragile deal. And of course, the continued bombardment of Lebanon and affecting the fragile ceasefire that is holding as of this morning in relation to Lebanon, particularly pertains to that. And we call on restraint from Israel particularly.

It is important that we maintain peace across the region at this time. And yes, of course, I can confirm that the Defence Investment Plan will be published before the NATO summit. And I think it is important that the Prime Minister is in post for that NATO summit. And can I also say that I hope that the EU summit. He will recall that I was the first Foreign Secretary to return to the top table of foreign secretaries in Europe, that the summit with the EU will come forward as soon as possible.

16:16

James Naish MP (Rushcliffe, Labour)

- -

James Naish thank. of issues from the G7 summit. I wonder if he could set out how the government's work to de-escalate things in the Middle East will help things in the Middle East will help families here in Britain. And my constituency of Rushcliffe, specifically around protecting shipping routes, reducing energy pressures and keeping prices down.

16:17

Rt Hon David Lammy MP, Deputy Prime Minister (Tottenham, Labour)

- -

Prime Minister to hon. Friend, and can I pay tribute to the work and can I pay tribute to the work of the Foreign Secretary in that regard? And, of course, the Prime Minister and our National Security Adviser in their determination to seek to keep the Straits of Hormuz open, to work with partners and bring together a coalition to achieve that. We stand ready to help, particularly with demining. We all want to give the reassurance to industry to get back to freedom of travel down the Strait of Hormuz.

All of that will affect cost of living in this country and stabilise our economy, but also the global economy.

16:18

Rt Hon Sir Oliver Dowden MP (Hertsmere, Conservative)

- -

So Oliver Dowden the. >> Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Does the Deputy Prime Minister share my concern and that of many of my concern and that of many of my constituents about elements of the Iran deal and in particular, that the sanctions relief, the early sanctions relief, the access to frozen Iranian assets and the $300 billion of economic reconstruction development aid could find its way back to the IRGC, further strengthening an organisation that has done so much damage to regional stability and indeed, global global stability, both directly and through its proxies.

And while I'm at it, will the Deputy Prime Minister sit down with the police and find some way of stopping this ridiculous heckling and disruption of prime Ministers on the steps of Downing Street, when they're trying to make statements, which further adds to our considerable international embarrassment right now.

16:18

Rt Hon David Lammy MP, Deputy Prime Minister (Tottenham, Labour)

- -

Prime Minister. hon. Gentleman, and we have sanctioned the entirety of the IRGC. We've imposed 240 sanctions on Iran We've imposed 240 sanctions on Iran since coming into office, and we will bring forward legislation to implement full and further sanctions and sectorial measures, including targeting finance, energy, software and other industries, advancing Iranian nuclear escalation. And and he has stood in my shoes on the steps of Downing Street. And I do think there are these moments where the country are watching in.

And they do want to be able to hear Prime Ministers of the day speak. So I recognise the points that he raised.

16:19

Dame Meg Hillier MP (Hackney South and Shoreditch, Labour )

- -

In Meg Hillier. speaker, I was glad that the Deputy Prime Minister reiterated support for Ukraine, but in order to do that, we obviously need the Defence that, we obviously need the Defence Investment Plan. But could he perhaps explain what conversations the Prime Minister had with the G7 in the G7, the G7, about defence investment through particularly the Defence, Security and Resilience Bank and the multi lateral defence mechanism? Both could be important to Britain and I wonder if the Prime Minister, Deputy Prime Minister, can tell us what's happening.

16:20

Rt Hon David Lammy MP, Deputy Prime Minister (Tottenham, Labour)

- -

Deputy Prime Minister. >> Well, I'm very grateful to my right hon. Friend, and she will be reassured that, of course, defence reassured that, of course, defence and increase defence spending across the G7 was a topic of discussion. We support attempts by the European Union and indeed by our Canadian friends, to ensure that the funds are available and different mechanisms are available to increase that defence spending, and, as I've said, we will set out how we will do that before the NATO summit.

16:20

Ben Obese-Jecty MP (Huntingdon, Conservative)

- -

Ben Obese-Jecty yes. >> Ben Obese-Jecty yes. >> Thank you, Mr. Speaker. >> The Prime Minister. >> Made reference to the meeting that. >> The. >> Prime Minister, Deputy Prime

**** Possible New Speaker ****

Prime Minister, Deputy Prime Minister, made reference to the meeting that the Prime Minister had with the Prime Minister of Japan, with reference to 18 billion of with reference to 18 billion of investment coming into the country. Some of that will no doubt be with regards to the Global Combat Air programme. That is something that a funding deal needs to be in place for, for the end of this month. So next week, the Minister for Defence Readiness and Procurement mentioned last week that that funding deal has been agreed.

Could the Deputy Prime Minister confirm how much that deal is worth, and whether that is a multi-year deal, or whether there is a three month interim deal that runs out at the end of September?

16:21

Rt Hon David Lammy MP, Deputy Prime Minister (Tottenham, Labour)

- -

Deputy Prime Minister. >> Grateful to the hon. Gentleman, and indeed, I recall being in Japan as Foreign Secretary in discussing as Foreign Secretary in discussing that deal. And I was very pleased to see the 18 billion deal which was created, incidentally, 11,000 jobs signed, signed up. I will ask the Defence Secretary to update the hon. Gentleman in the usual way.

16:21

Ms Stella Creasy MP (Walthamstow, Labour )

- -

Stella Creasy. >> Stella Creasy. >> Thank you, Mr. Speaker. After decades of previous conservative decades of previous conservative governments who preached isolation on the international stage, both the Prime Minister and the Deputy Prime Minister have shown through the work they've done at the GC the value of being in the room to get agreements that change, make changes that are positive for our national interests. That is why he will understand the concern that many of us have today, that the EU summit plan for the 22nd of July to make progress on repairing the damage done by Brexit to our economy and agreeing things like an SPS deal and youth mobility has been delayed, he will understand.

Every month of delay in the summit is a month of delay in implementation of any deal. So what can he do to reassure those of us who recognise the salvage operation? We need to address the damage Brexit has done to our economy? That this is a pause, not a stop in that process.

16:22

Rt Hon David Lammy MP, Deputy Prime Minister (Tottenham, Labour)

- -

Deputy Prime Minister. Friend for her leadership on these issues. Can I reassure her that the summit will take place as soon as summit will take place as soon as possible, and also that we are having ongoing discussions with the European Union on SPS, youth mobility, steel and a range of issues on a day to day basis.

16:23

Richard Foord MP (Honiton and Sidmouth, Liberal Democrat)

- -

Richard Foord thank. >> Richard Foord thank. >> You, Mr. Speaker. A week ago, the Prime Minister said that the UK. >> Would support the deal. >> Between the United States and

**** Possible New Speaker ****

Between the United States and Iran by standing up a. Quote. Defensive, independent, multilateral mission and at the multilateral mission and at the planning stage that was designed to restore freedom of navigation to the Strait of Hormuz. In May, the UK was supposed to deploy drones, typhoon fighter jets and HMS Dragon to such a future mission. Whereas today the deputy Prime Minister said it was immediate support for de-mining. What will the deployment involve and what might trigger it please?

16:23

Rt Hon David Lammy MP, Deputy Prime Minister (Tottenham, Labour)

- -

Deputy Prime Minister. >> I'm very grateful to the hon. Gentleman, of course, HMS Dragon, to be ready for any mission to secure the Strait of Hormuz. Of secure the Strait of Hormuz. Of course, advanced British military mine clearance specialists, as I refer to typhoons ready to conduct refer to typhoons ready to conduct air patrols over the strait, and the Royal Navy's Modular Beehive system, which can deliver high speed autonomous crack and drone boats to track and identify potential threats and defeat them.

16:24

Rushanara Ali MP (Bethnal Green and Stepney, Labour)

- -

Rushanara Ali thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker. Can I also associate. >> Mr. Speaker. >> I'm so sorry. >> Thank you. >> Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Can I

**** Possible New Speaker ****

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Can I also associate myself with the right my right hon. Friend's remarks about the Prime Minister remarks about the Prime Minister and his service to our country. Mr. speaker, despite the agreement with Iran as the Deputy Prime Minister highlighted, the attacks on Lebanon have continued. Can he say more about what will be done to ensure that the truce is sustainable? There's been agreed. And can he say more about what action will be taken to support people who've been displaced over a million people and for the reconstruction of that country?

16:24

Rt Hon David Lammy MP, Deputy Prime Minister (Tottenham, Labour)

- -

Thank you. >> Deputy Prime Minister. >> My hon. Friend, we strongly welcome the ceasefire but recognise welcome the ceasefire but recognise that it's fragile. It must be fully implemented, including withdrawal by the IDF from Lebanon and deployment of the Lebanese armed forces from the south. And Israel must end its indiscriminate rocket fire. We've announced an additional £20 million worth of humanitarian funding, taking UK support up to 30 million. And Baroness Chapman, the honourable Minister, was in Lebanon last week discussing these issues, of course, with our French counterparts and the Lebanese government.

16:25

Rt Hon Sir Alec Shelbrooke MP (Wetherby and Easingwold, Conservative)

- -

Sir Alec Shelbrooke thank. >> You. >> Mr. Speaker. And may. >> I say to. >> The Deputy Prime Minister, I.

**** Possible New Speaker ****

I really am quite impressed that he knows more about defence spending in the former Secretary of State for defence. He was able to State for defence. He was able to stand at Deputy Prime Minister's questions and also know what was going on in the G7. And apparently the Prime Minister did such an amazing job that then the way forward is to sack him. So may I just ask the Deputy Prime Minister if the demands to go into more closer trading relationships with Europe are to be met by some of those who are pushing in his party? And indeed, what the hon.

Member for Makerfield had said recently do those five trade deals that he's boasted about stand up?

16:26

Rt Hon David Lammy MP, Deputy Prime Minister (Tottenham, Labour)

- -

The Prime Minister. >> The Prime Minister. >> I'm grateful to the hon. Gentleman. We've been very clear about our red lines, the red lines about our red lines, the red lines we had in the manifesto and delivering on our promise to reset our relationship and put Britain at the heart of Europe. And absolutely, we stand by the ability to implement, enact and see our economy grow as a result of those five trade deals, all of which I've been involved in.

16:26

Kerry McCarthy MP (Bristol East, Labour)

- -

Kerry McCarthy. >> Mr. Speaker, and I too, want to echo the tribute that he's paid to the Prime Minister. He has, much of which he can be proud, particularly which he can be proud, particularly on the international stage. I welcome the Deputy Prime Minister's strong words about what's happening in Gaza and the West Bank, but my constituents frequently write to me in despair that Israel does seem to be able to act with impunity when it comes to illegal settlements or the blocking of aid.

Many other examples. What reassurance he can give them that there is some hope that Israel will be held to account, and the people of Gaza and West Bank will be will be helped in the face of such oppression.

16:27

Rt Hon David Lammy MP, Deputy Prime Minister (Tottenham, Labour)

- -

Deputy historic steps to recognise a Palestinian state. We oppose settlements that undermine a two state solution. Settlements are illegal under international law, and we urge Israel, as I've continued to do, to take greater action to hold violent settlers to account and strongly condemn the massive increase that we're seeing in settler violence against Palestinian civilians. That's why my honourable offence announced further sanctions against those who are sustaining that violence. The fourth package in recent times.

16:28

Rt Hon Robert Jenrick MP (Newark, Reform UK)

- -

Robert Jenrick. >> Just said that we're all in the Prime Minister's debt. Well, that would be the £300 billion of debt that he's racked up. And of all the G7 countries, we now pay the highest borrowing costs. So given that Labour were elected on an express pledge not to raise taxes and not to borrow beyond our means, would the Deputy Prime Minister agree me that if the Member for Makerfield wants to hike, he should call a general election?

16:28

Rt Hon David Lammy MP, Deputy Prime Minister (Tottenham, Labour)

- -

Yeah. >> I think. >> I'm very grateful to the right hon. Gentleman, but I've got to say hon. Gentleman, but I've got to say to him, reform are in no position to ask questions or make demands when their leader is refusing to own up about his £5 million donation and whether he lobbied the Bank of England about crypto currencies.

16:29

Janet Daby MP (Lewisham East, Labour)

- -

David. >> Share the. >> Deputy Prime Minister's remarks about the Prime Minister and his service to our country. Does my service to our country. Does my right hon. Friend agree that Israel must allow aid into Gaza, stop settlement expansion in the E one area of East Jerusalem, and tackle settlement violence, and that the G7 must use this moment to ensure Palestinian people have the resources they need to rebuild their country.

16:29

Rt Hon David Lammy MP, Deputy Prime Minister (Tottenham, Labour)

- -

Well, very grateful to my hon. >> Well, very grateful to my hon. Friend. And she's absolutely right. We all now want to see peace We all now want to see peace maintained in the Middle East. We look with horror at what we see on the West Bank and the settler the West Bank and the settler violence that we see. And I condemn the inflammatory language that we're seeing once again by members of the Israeli government. of the Israeli government. Greg Smith.

right to say that Iran must never be allowed to get a nuclear weapon.

16:30

Greg Smith MP (Mid Buckinghamshire, Conservative)

- -

But we know history teaches us that the Iranian regime have ignored the the Iranian regime have ignored the deal that was in place, the JCPoA. So can the Deputy Prime Minister be clear with the House what the clear with the House what the government is doing in clear terms to make any future deal actually to make any future deal actually meaningful and stop the Iranian regime acquiring the level of enriched uranium that would make a

**** Possible New Speaker ****

nuclear weapon. David Lammy. Well, I'm very grateful to the hon. Gentleman. I stood at this despatch box and discussed these issues now over several years. I remember negotiating with the

16:30

Rt Hon David Lammy MP, Deputy Prime Minister (Tottenham, Labour)

- -

Iranians in Geneva, and I have to say, some of the mendacity that I heard with them in relation to heard with them in relation to their nuclear ambitions. We, of course, as the G7. And it's very course, as the G7. And it's very pleased to see the statement, and I refer him to that if he hasn't already read it in relation to Iran. already read it in relation to Iran. And as you would expect, the United Kingdom stands ready to support Kingdom stands ready to support that deal and hold Iran to the obligations that they must necessarily make in relation to their nuclear ambitions and Iranian enrichment.

Great.

16:31

Thank you, Madam. >> I want to join the Deputy Prime Minister in paying tribute to the exceptional work of both the National Crime Agency and the Royal Marines, who have a very special bond with Exeter being housed at Lympstone just down the river. EXE again in that action taking on the Russian Shadow fleet. Can the Deputy Prime Minister commit to the government and this this country, taking further action against the Russian shadow fleet and making sure that we continue to be at the forefront of enforcing the forefront of enforcing the sanctions that we put in place.

16:31

Steve Race MP (Exeter, Labour)

- -

David Lammy. hon. Gentleman. Let me thank again, the Royal Marines and the National Crime Agency officer for their bravery and professionalism. The vessel is now held off the south coast at a UK Anchorage. It's a coast at a UK Anchorage. It's a live criminal investigation and ongoing, so obviously I cannot comment further. But he's heard us talk again and again about the Russian sanction fleet and corral much of the international community to act.

16:32

Rt Hon David Lammy MP, Deputy Prime Minister (Tottenham, Labour)

- -

Pete Wishart much.

16:32

Pete Wishart MP (Perth and Kinross-shire, Scottish National Party)

- -

The only thing. the Deputy Prime Minister reminding us that tomorrow is ten years since the disastrous decision to leave the EU, a Brexit that Scotland overwhelmingly rejected but has left us the most impacted nation in the UK, and a bill of £30 billion. But does he agree it is not just us, but it looks like the whole UK has suffered because of Brexit, made it virtually ungovernable, as we see, as we are now about to get our seventh Prime Minister in the Brexit ten year era.

16:32

Rt Hon David Lammy MP, Deputy Prime Minister (Tottenham, Labour)

- -

David Lammy. >> David Lammy. >> Well he's right. The Leader of the Opposition and her party the Opposition and her party delivered a botched Brexit and we must hold them to account for that. And that's why we've sought day And that's why we've sought day after day to reconnect with our European friends, to partner with them where we can. We held the first summit. I look forward to the next summit when it comes, and all of the progress that we've made to repair the damage that was done, and to make progress with our European friends together.

16:33

Bradley Thomas MP (Bromsgrove, Conservative)

- -

Bradley Thomas thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. Last week at Prime Deputy Speaker. Last week at Prime Minister's Questions, I raised a very serious topic around the impact of steel tariffs and the impact of steel tariffs and the impact on companies and jobs across the country. The Deputy Prime Minister gave me a rather evasive answer, I suspect, because he didn't expect to be stood here today addressing the House of Commons. He did say that the Prime Minister would be raising this at the G7.

So can he give the House an update on what was discussed with regard to steel tariffs, and perhaps take the opportunity to once again try and answer the question, what steps is the government taking to avoid this economic disaster that will that will occur in less than two weeks?

16:34

Rt Hon David Lammy MP, Deputy Prime Minister (Tottenham, Labour)

- -

Yeah. Protecting primary steel production critical to the UK. National infrastructure is, of course, the number one priority. Overall quota number one priority. Overall quota levels for steel imports will be reduced by 60% compared to current arrangements from the 1st of July, with steel coming into the UK above those levels subject to 50%. Tariff measures are targeted at steel, steel that's that are made or could be made in the United Kingdom. We continue to engage with the industry and trading partners and our steel measures, and we will confirm final quotas shortly ahead of the 1st of July will monitor the impact of this closely, including a review after 12 months.

16:34

Rt Hon Liz Saville Roberts MP (Dwyfor Meirionnydd, Plaid Cymru)

- -

Liz Saville-Roberts rather. >> Liz Saville-Roberts rather. >> Than ten years on. And Brexit has cost the Welsh economy £4 billion. It has raised the cost of billion. It has raised the cost of living and it has narrowed the life chances of young people. So if the next Labour government is serious next Labour government is serious about change for the better, then rebuilding relationships with European members of the G7 and the EU must be front and centre. Given that the Brexit reset summit, due to be held a month from now, has now been postponed with no date, surely the definition of stability would be for the next government to campaign to rejoin the single market and the customs union and to be upfront, upfront and forthright with the British people of the advantages of doing so.

16:35

Rt Hon David Lammy MP, Deputy Prime Minister (Tottenham, Labour)

- -

Mark Tami well, grateful to the >> Mark Tami well, grateful to the hon. Lady, and she and I have discussed these issues. Indeed, discussed these issues. Indeed, before we came into government. There's no change to our manifesto. Red lines, and I'm not going to Red lines, and I'm not going to pre-empt what our next manifesto might say, but I. I do look forward to the next EU summit, and I'm quite sure that that will take place as as soon as is possible.

can.

16:35

Rt Hon Mark Pritchard MP (The Wrekin, Conservative)

- -

I say to the Deputy Prime Minister that he's looking even more prime ministerial than he did on Wednesday? I wonder what has on Wednesday? I wonder what has changed since last Wednesday and today? And can I say that this is an end of an era? Because the love in between the Deputy Prime Minister myself could be coming to an end. And he may not be at the despatch box much longer, but I hope that is not the case. Is it not clear, Madam Deputy Speaker, that Paris is not a place for British Prime Ministers? Because when Margaret Thatcher went to Paris to a security conference in 1990, she had gone within four days as Prime Minister, sir Keir Starmer, as Prime Minister, has gone within five days after visiting Paris for a security conference.

But on the communiquÃ© from the G7 statement, there is a reference to Ukraine and energy. Can I ask the Deputy Prime Minister when the UK will end its temporary licenses for the import of Russian diesel and jet fuel through third countries? It's scheduled to end in 2027. Could he bring that date forward?

16:37

Rt Hon David Lammy MP, Deputy Prime Minister (Tottenham, Labour)

- -

David Lammy. I'm very grateful >> David Lammy. I'm very grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his question. I expect to be here for question. I expect to be here for for for a few days yet. And can I say to him that we did publish a say to him that we did publish a statement on that issue, and it's the 1st of July.

16:37

Monica Harding MP (Esher and Walton, Liberal Democrat)

- -

Monica Harding thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. We've been waiting Deputy Speaker. We've been waiting for the EU, UK reset for two years, and today we have just more warm words. In the absence of the UK. EU reset summit postponed because the Labour Party has decided to change its leader. So on the anniversary of the Brexit referendum, when we are all poorer and our economy has taken a 6 to 8% hit because of it, what assurance can the Deputy Prime Minister give this House that the next Prime Minister will be bolder than this one, and will actually positively reset the relationship with Europe, supporting our calls for joining the customs union and the single market?

16:38

Rt Hon David Lammy MP, Deputy Prime Minister (Tottenham, Labour)

- -

Hear, hear. >> Hear me. >> I'm grateful to you, hon. I'm proud of the work that we've done to reconnect with the European to reconnect with the European Union and alongside the Cabinet Minister and my, my, my dear friend Minister and my, my, my dear friend on the front bench, we put a lot of work into the run up for that EU summit. I was pleased to sit around the table with foreign secretaries across Europe for the first time. And that momentum will continue not just for the next year, but right up to the general election in many years ahead.

16:38

Harriet Cross MP (Gordon and Buchan, Conservative)

- -

Harriet Cross thank you very much, Madam Deputy Speaker. The Deputy Prime Minister mentioned in Deputy Prime Minister mentioned in his statement an £18 billion investment from Japan. What he didn't mention was earlier this year, the government turned down a £17.5 billion investment from oil and gas companies when they decided not to end the energy profits levy. He also mentioned Russian sanctions, but what he didn't mention was that they have not sanctioned Russian derived oil products, nor Russian LNG. Can the Deputy Prime Minister not see that this government's policies on the North Sea oil and gas sector are bad for national security, and that whoever is leading the government next must end the ban on new licences, end the EPL and get Jackdaw and Rosebank permitted David Lammy.

16:39

Rt Hon David Lammy MP, Deputy Prime Minister (Tottenham, Labour)

- -

Can I just remind the hon. Lady >> Can I just remind the hon. Lady that in the past decade, 70,000 jobs were lost in the North Sea jobs were lost in the North Sea because of the party that she is partnered with, headquartered Great British Energy in Aberdeen, we've established the office for Clean Energy Jobs to help create jobs. There are only 105 000 jobs in renewables in Scotland. We're committed to jobs and that's why we provide an extra £1.2 billion in support to upskill the workforce.

16:39

Dr Ellie Chowns MP (North Herefordshire, Green Party)

- -

Ellie Chowns thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. The G7 summit took. >> In the grip of an extreme heat wave, a heat wave that's now hitting the UK this week. And yet climate change was not on the climate change was not on the agenda, despite the fact that the climate crisis has huge impacts on human health and economic security. Why is it that the G7 is asleep at the wheel with their heads buried in the sand? Could it be possibly that they were appeasing one Donald J.

Trump? And have we not already learned that appeasing Trump never works? Will the Deputy Prime Minister assure me that under whoever the next Prime Minister is, the UK will show the leadership needed here in the UK and on the global stage to tackle the climate crisis?

16:40

Rt Hon David Lammy MP, Deputy Prime Minister (Tottenham, Labour)

- -

David Lammy well. talking about climate again. Frankly, more, more, more. I'm very Frankly, more, more, more. I'm very proud of our record on climate, on renewables, on nature. I was very pleased to deliver my Q lecture on this subject and what the work that continues, not just in the Department for Energy and Security, but also the FCDO, where great work is going to ensure that Britain once again is at the leadership table on climate and nature.

16:41

Lincoln Jopp MP (Spelthorne, Conservative)

- -

Lincoln Jopp thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. This is a joke, right? Madam Deputy Speaker, we've got the Deputy Prime Minister here telling us a statement about a G7 telling us a statement about a G7 summit that he wasn't at. I'm embarrassed to to, to to point that embarrassed to to, to to point that out in front of the public gallery in the world. Does the can the can the Deputy Prime Minister name a single Prime Minister who has gone to a G7 and G8 or G20 and not come back personally to make a statement to this House?

16:41

Rt Hon David Lammy MP, Deputy Prime Minister (Tottenham, Labour)

- -

Yeah. >> Yeah. >> David Lammy despite the repartee, the. The hon. Gentleman is well the. The hon. Gentleman is well aware that our. In our constitutional situation, just as I deputise for the Prime Minister at deputise for the Prime Minister at Prime Minister's Questions last week and asked his questions on behalf of a range of issues on behalf of the government, I deputised today to update the House on the G7.

16:42

Jess Brown-Fuller MP (Chichester, Liberal Democrat)

- -

Jess Brown-Fuller Madam Deputy. >> Speaker For every tier. >> Of an Israeli mother, a thousand Lebanese mothers must weep. All of Lebanese mothers must weep. All of Lebanon must burn. These are the appalling words of the Israeli Minister for National Security, Ben Minister for National Security, Ben Gvir, posted three days ago. I know that the Deputy Prime Minister will stand up and condemn, condemn this genocidal and frankly, psychopathic language. Considering the very fragile ceasefire with Lebanon, does the Prime Minister see any version, the Deputy Prime Minister see any version of lasting peace in the Middle East, with Ben-Gvir continuing to serve in Netanyahu's Cabinet, and are further sanctions on him possible? David Lammy?

16:42

Rt Hon David Lammy MP, Deputy Prime Minister (Tottenham, Labour)

- -

Well, his words are reprehensible. And of course I reprehensible. And of course I condemn them. And I was very proud condemn them. And I was very proud to sanction him, frankly, for all that he continues to do to destabilise the Middle East and undermine the prospects of a two state solution.

16:43

Dr Al Pinkerton MP (Surrey Heath, Liberal Democrat)

- -

Dawn Butler Al Pinkerton. >> Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. The government lauded the EU UK reset deal as potentially reset deal as potentially delivering a modest but yet nonetheless material point 2% uplift to GDP per annum. That equates to about 6 billion per year, or £500 million per month. Given that the EU have announced the delay to that summit, does the Deputy Prime Minister consider £500 million to be a price too high, a price too low, or about right for the latest Palace coup within the Labour Party?

16:43

Rt Hon David Lammy MP, Deputy Prime Minister (Tottenham, Labour)

- -

David Lammy well, I've got to >> David Lammy well, I've got to say to the hon. Gentleman that I expect that the EU summit will expect that the EU summit will happen as quickly as possible. He knows our constitutional arrangements. Andy Burnham one A massive, massive victory in Makerfield and I look forward, I. I look forward to working with him over the coming weeks and months.

16:44

Rt Hon Jeremy Corbyn MP (Islington North, Your Party)

- -

Jeremy Corbyn. There are massive death tolls in the wars in Ukraine, Sudan, Democratic Republic of Congo, Lebanon, Palestine, Iran. Last year, global arms expenditure reached $2.7 trillion, of third of which came from the USA. This year it will be well over 3 trillion. What consideration did the G7 give to the direction in which the world is going? Greater global poverty, greater inequality, greater climate injustice, greater danger for the whole world? Did they have any thoughts about an idea of greater diplomacy, of ending the wars, of bringing about peace around the world? Or is it all about solely spending more and more money on weapons?

16:45

Rt Hon David Lammy MP, Deputy Prime Minister (Tottenham, Labour)

- -

David Lammy. >> David Lammy. >> I'm grateful to the right hon. Gentleman. And look, the G7 was a Gentleman. And look, the G7 was a great act of diplomacy, and I commend President Macron for a commend President Macron for a successful G7. And I think it was successful in relation to the terrible geopolitical environment that of course, he describes, in part because he chose to invite India, Kenya partners in the Gulf and others to talk about the very same issues that I know has dominated much of his career.

16:45

Danny Kruger MP (East Wiltshire, Reform UK)

- -

Danny Kruger. >> The government wants to align more closely. With the EU, ten years on from the Brexit referendum, but does the Deputy Prime Minister recognise as a statement of fact, that the sectors where the growth of the future is coming from life sciences, agri tech, defence, tech and most of all, AI in these sectors, the UK far outstrips the EU and would not do so if we'd spent the last five years in the regulatory regime of the EU.

And so whenever the EU summit happens, does the Deputy Prime Minister agree that we need to maintain absolute sovereignty and indeed, regulatory divergence in these vital areas?

16:46

Rt Hon David Lammy MP, Deputy Prime Minister (Tottenham, Labour)

- -

David Lammy I think we must always do what's right for the country. I don't quite recognise the either or that he is positing. the either or that he is positing. Of course, we are global leaders in areas like AI, digital and tech, but I do think with the EU as our biggest trading partner, it's vital that we continue to work in partnership with them, and I'm very proud of the record of the government in relation to that.

**** Possible New Speaker ****

I thank the Deputy Prime Minister for the statement this afternoon. I will allow a few moments for the front benches to moments for the front benches to swap over. Brings us to a statement

**** Possible New Speaker ****

on the East Midlands Railway collision. Secretary of State for transport. Heidi Alexander. Yes.

16:47

Ministerial statement: EMR Train Collision Incident of 19 June 2026

With permission. Madam Deputy Speaker, I would like to make a statement on the tragic collision

16:47

Rt Hon Heidi Alexander MP, The Secretary of State for Transport (Swindon South, Labour)

- -

between two passenger trains on Friday the 19th of June. I realise Friday the 19th of June. I realise hon. Members will be aware of some of the details, but today I'd like to set out the facts as we know them. So far. At approximately 515 them. So far. At approximately 515 on Friday evening, two East Midlands Railway passenger trains collided at Elstow, near Bedford. The 1640 service from Corby to London Saint Pancras struck the stationary 1550 service from Nottingham to Saint Pancras.

Within minutes, emergency services were on the scene. A joint response then followed, including fire and rescue services, the ambulance service, National Police Air Service, British Transport Police, Bedfordshire Police and railway staff. They evacuated passengers safely, provided medical assistance, secured the railway and began recovery operations. By 11 p.m. all passengers were clear of the scene. Madam Deputy Speaker, it deeply saddens me to confirm to the House that the driver of the Corby to London Saint Pancras train died in the collision.

His family have asked for privacy at this horrendously difficult time, but I am sure I speak for the whole house when I offer them our deepest condolences. According to the latest information I have from the BTP, at least 33 people were taken to hospital, with a third of those in a serious condition. At least 56 other people were treated for injuries, and a number of the injured remain in a critical condition. Today we are thinking of all of them and their families.

Madam Deputy Speaker, all responders to a person acted quickly, professionally and bravely in the most challenging of circumstances. Circumstances that many of us will never experience nor quite understand. Indeed, Chief Constable Lucy Dorsi of the British Transport Police, told me over the weekend that the teamwork between emergency services, railway staff and the Rail Accident Investigation Branch was the best she'd ever seen. Let me take this opportunity to thank every single one of them. I would also like to thank the NHS staff who are still providing care to the injured as we speak, often in the hours and days after events such as these, small acts of compassion and selflessness start to emerge.

Whether it was members of the local community who lived near the stranded trains, providing bottles of water to stranded passengers. The Salvation Army's food truck that's been on the scene since the incident, or station staff along the route who supported passengers amid the disruption. I was particularly moved to hear of the ticket inspector on the Corby train despite being injured himself, who radioed in to close the rail line whilst also checking everyone else was OK.

As I've said before, I truly believe the best of us show up in the worst of times and that is again the case here. Madam Deputy Speaker, this is news that no Transport Secretary ever wants to deliver. And while I completely understand the strength of feeling out there, while I hear the clamour for answers, for the need to understand the cause of this tragedy, I must ask everyone for some patience. As hard as I know that will be, I am determined we get all the answers we're looking for and that lessons are learned.

The Rail Accident Investigation Branch, whose inspectors were on the scene within hours, have already launched an independent investigation, and they have confirmed there will be an update in the coming days. They, and they alone will identify the cause and will make recommendations, which I will consider with the utmost care and due diligence. Meanwhile, I urge everyone to await their findings and to hold off on speculation. Madam Deputy Speaker, those most affected by this tragic incident will continue to receive the support they need.

In addition to direct care provided by the emergency services. East Midlands Railway has a customer care and welfare support team to provide assistance to passengers. They have also set up a dedicated care line that anyone affected can contact throughout. My department will remain in close contact with the British Transport Police and local emergency services. Network rail East Midlands Railway. The Rail Accident Investigation Branch and the Office of Rail and Road. The Rail Minister has already spoken to the General secretaries of the RMT and Aslef, as well as to hon.

Members, including the Member for Bedford, the Member for Milton Keynes North, the Member for Mid Bedfordshire, the Member for Corby and East Northamptonshire, the Member for Wellingborough and Rushden and the Member for Kettering. Madam Deputy Speaker, now that investigators have gathered evidence from the scene. Network rail will recover the trains and restore the infrastructure. This will be a complex operation involving lifting and removing damaged trains, repairing the rails and removing and replacing overhead lines. That is why the railway is expected to remain closed between Bedford and Luton for the rest of the week.

There will, however, be services running between Luton and London Saint Pancras rail replacement services were already in place along the Midland Main line due to planned engineering works over the weekend. Those works were cancelled but the replacement services continued to offer passengers alternative routes to travel. I've also instructed train operators to accept tickets from customers using alternative routes. However, my message to passengers who would normally use this route is that if your travel is not essential, please make alternative arrangements.

Madam Deputy Speaker, I realise the following words may ring hollow to those affected by Friday's events, but they remain important nonetheless. Britain does have one of the safest railways in the world. Thankfully, incidents like this are extremely rare and when they do occur, they are taken very seriously. Safety remains the absolute priority across our rail network. Of that, there should be no doubt. In addition to the railway's own safety experts and the Railway Accident Investigation Branch, we also have an expert independent safety regulator.

I expect all of them to be studying the findings from the investigation, and I will ensure that the right steps are then taken. Madam Deputy Speaker, I would like to close by reassuring the House that we will provide updates as more information becomes available, and I would like to offer my sympathies again to everyone affected and express my heartfelt thanks to those who responded so heroically in the aftermath. I commend this statement to the House. Shadow Secretary of State Richard Holden.

16:55

Rt Hon Richard Holden MP (Basildon and Billericay, Conservative)

- -

Thank you very much indeed, Madam Speaker. First and foremost, Madam Speaker. First and foremost, I'd like to offer my condolences to the family of Shaun Burton. In addition, our thoughts are with all addition, our thoughts are with all of those injured, some in hospital, still with very serious injuries, and I and all my colleagues have on this side of the House wish them all well. I agree with the Secretary of State and also wish to put on record our grateful thanks from this side of the House to those first responders.

The emergency crews, including from the British Transport Police who attended the scene. I would also like to thank the Rail Minister in the House of Lords for his call with hon. Members, including on this side of the House over the weekend, as well as the Secretary of State for advance sight of her statement and for coming to the House at this turbulent time. It is welcome that despite all that is going on, we have this statement, given the seriousness of this accident near Bedford, and from the accounts and video footage released in the aftermath of the incident, we can clearly see that this was a serious collision.

The images from within the train and reports from passengers really do depict the scale of the incident. At this time, it appears that there are few, very few confirmed details about the reasons for the crash. There has obviously been considerable online commentary trying to explain what may have happened, with remarks about various different systems in place. However, given our lack of knowledge, I think it would be deeply irresponsible to speculate about the causes of the incident. Historically, our railways, as the Secretary of State has said, have a very strong safety record.

However, that safety is predicated on learning from the incidents and ensuring that they do not happen in the future. Therefore, be grateful if the Secretary of State could give some further clarity, if at all possible, about the investigation to date. While initial investigations by the Rail Accident Investigation Branch take place within a few days, full reports can often take about a year to complete. Given the substantial questions raised by this incident, will the Transport Secretary work to ensure that the investigation delivers answers swiftly and clarifies whether there are any more fundamental issues at stake? Furthermore, is the government ready to ensure that any findings can be acted upon quickly by Network Rail or the rail operators, so that any issues can be very quickly addressed? The Secretary of State is obviously absolutely right that the Accident Investigation Branch needs time and space to establish what happened.

Confidence in our railways depends on both avoiding incidents and where they do occur, learning from them as quickly as possible. What has occurred in this case is clearly a tragedy. But the best way to pay tribute to those injured, and to Sean's tragic death is to ensure that lessons are learned. Thank you.

16:57

Rt Hon Heidi Alexander MP, The Secretary of State for Transport (Swindon South, Labour)

- -

State. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker and I can. I thank the Speaker and I can. I thank the right hon. Gentleman for his remarks and for the tone in which remarks and for the tone in which he expressed himself. I share in his condolences that he has expressed to the driver of the Corby train Shaun Burton. And as I said in my opening remarks, the thoughts of the whole House are with his family at this awful time. He is right to say that the RAIB need to be given space to complete their investigations.

They were on the scene within about an hour of the collision happening. They have indicated to me that they will issue an update on their investigation in the coming days. He is right that the full investigation will take longer than that, but as facts emerge, they will be sharing that with the public in the next few days. I agree with him that it would be wrong and potentially unfair to all those involved to speculate on the causes of this collision before all the evidence has been properly examined, and I am confident that the RAIB will establish what has happened and why.

I also assure him that we will act quickly on their recommendations. It's important that they independently assess the facts of the matter, and they make recommendations to me as the Secretary of State for transport. And can I just reassure him that our immediate priority is to all of those who have been affected, with supporting those who have been injured and their families, and we're making sure we're providing all the assistance that is needed to all those who have been caught up in this terrible incident.

Committee.

16:59

Ruth Cadbury MP (Brentford and Isleworth, Labour)

- -

Ruth Cadbury thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. >> And I know everyone in this House endorsed the comments. Both of the Secretary of State and of the Shadow Secretary of State, who actually has asked, I think, all of the questions that I had lined up I wanted to ask, but particularly thanks to those who responded so quickly after this terrible incident. In support of those who are injured. And our thoughts are with all of those who are so severely impacted.

So my question is, in addition to those other questions, will support be put in place for those who drive trains and work in other roles on that route when it reopens, because that could be fairly traumatic. Thank you.

17:00

Rt Hon Heidi Alexander MP, The Secretary of State for Transport (Swindon South, Labour)

- -

I spoke to the managing director >> I spoke to the managing director of East Midlands Railways yesterday, and the chair of the Transport Select Committee is completely Select Committee is completely right to say that support must also be provided to the staff who were caught up in this incident. And one of the things that Will Rogers explained to me yesterday, who is the managing director of EMR, is that he is receiving support from other train operating companies. At the moment, the whole of the railway family has come together to ensure that that support is put in place for individuals who could have experienced very significant trauma.

That will obviously apply to passengers who were caught up in this terrible incident, but it will also apply to the staff of EMR as well. Liberal Democrat.

17:01

Olly Glover MP (Didcot and Wantage, Liberal Democrat)

- -

Spokesperson Olly Glover. >> Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. And can I start by thanking the Secretary of State for advance sight of her statement, and I wholly associate myself with her

**** Possible New Speaker ****

wholly associate myself with her remarks. Our thoughts have to. Be with the driver who lost his life and the many passengers who life and the many passengers who were injured, particularly those still in hospital and all of their families. And I know from my past railway management experience that the railway family as a whole will really be in a state of shock. And I do want to pay tribute to the on train signalling Centre control centre staff in both Network Rail and East Midlands Railway for their excellent initial response to this, which led to emergency services being on scene within ten minutes and pay tribute to the emergency services for their work, and of investigatory staff and station staff and customer service personnel along the line of route and the community organisations and Salvation Army that the Secretary of State referenced.

I don't have a question for the Secretary of State. I think her statement was absolutely spot on, but all I want to do is to just reiterate what she said, that it is so important that we do not succumb to the temptation to speculate, however well intentioned that may be, and we give the investigatory teams and the site recovery teams the time and space that they need, because and I never had to deal with anything as horrible as this in in my railway career.

But it is I know from that time that that sort of speculation is the most unhelpful thing that can be given.

17:02

Rt Hon Heidi Alexander MP, The Secretary of State for Transport (Swindon South, Labour)

- -

I thank the hon. Gentleman for >> I thank the hon. Gentleman for his responsible remarks, and I also thank him for calling out once again the response of the emergency services, as well as the response of the railway staff who ensured that swift action could be taken once the collision had happened. I do think it is worth just saying once again how quickly, bravely and professionally our emergency services responded in these most challenging circumstances.

17:03

Mohammad Yasin MP (Bedford, Labour)

- -

Mohammad Yasin thank you. >> Mohammad Yasin thank you. >> Very much, Madam Deputy Speaker. I want to express my deepest I want to express my deepest condolences to the family, friends and colleagues of Shaun Burton. As and colleagues of Shaun Burton. As a train driver, he carried enormous responsibility and we should remember his dedication and service. I also wish a full recovery to those who are injured. This was a tragic incident, but it was genuinely moving to witness the extraordinary response from our community.

I saw firsthand the professionalism and compassion of rail staff, emergency services, NHS staff alongside the many local businesses, community groups and individuals who stepped forward to help from distributing water and food, transporting stranded passengers to to supporting these superb emergency operations. Veteran Kempston came together as one community and I am immensely proud of everyone involved. Given thousands of commuters rely on these services, can the Secretary of State confirm that replacement services are operating effectively and set out what support is being provided to rail staff in challenging conditions? During the rare red heat warning, while also coping with the impact of this tragedy.

17:05

Rt Hon Heidi Alexander MP, The Secretary of State for Transport (Swindon South, Labour)

- -

I'm grateful to the hon. My hon. Friend for that question, and he is Friend for that question, and he is right to highlight the impressive and selfless response by so many, including some in his own constituency as well as the staff he mentioned. Again, Shaun Burton, and it strikes me that it would be appropriate, perhaps, to read the comments from Will Rogers, who is the managing director of East Midlands Trains, who said the following. Sean was known for his quick wit, kind, generous and intelligent nature and for always having a smile on his face.

He was a well respected colleague, both in his role as a driver and in his previous role as a train manager, often acting as a trusted advisor and available to share his wisdom, support and guidance to others. He will be greatly missed by all who knew him.

17:06

Blake Stephenson MP (Mid Bedfordshire, Conservative)

- -

Blake Stephenson Madam Deputy Speaker, can I thank the Secretary of State for her statement today of State for her statement today and for Minister's briefing me during the course of the weekend on this tragic event. I can also take this tragic event. I can also take this opportunity to thank all the emergency services, railway staff and volunteers in Bedfordshire who worked so tirelessly and professionally in response to this collision in Mid Bedfordshire can also send my condolences to the family and of the train driver who tragically lost his life Shaun Burton and wish those who are injured a full and speedy recovery.

Some of my constituents do still need to travel, particularly to London. What guarantees can the Secretary of State give to my constituents who who rely on Flitwick and Harlington stations who she knows are closed at the moment? The contingency timetables and rail replacement capacity will be sufficient in the days ahead, and has any consideration been given to the possibility that trains on the East Coast mainline could make additional stops at Aylesbury in Bedfordshire to increase capacity during this recovery period?

17:07

Rt Hon Heidi Alexander MP, The Secretary of State for Transport (Swindon South, Labour)

- -

I will ask the Rail Minister to >> I will ask the Rail Minister to respond in writing to the suggestion that the hon. Gentleman has made about diverting stopping has made about diverting stopping services from the East Coast Main Line. We are working very closely with all train operators to make sure that adequate service is provided. Whilst there aren't services operating between Luton and Bedford, and that's rail replacement buses. At the moment, GTR are still operating between London and Luton and also north of Bedford.

EMR are still operating a limited service into Bedford, but I will respond in writing on the specific point that he suggests.

17:07

Alex Mayer MP (Dunstable and Leighton Buzzard, Labour)

- -

Alex Mayer thank you, Madam. >> Deputy Speaker. >> This was a hugely tragic incident and my thoughts are with all of those affected, and the all of those affected, and the Secretary of State is absolutely right that we should wait for the investigation and not jump to any conclusions. Will the Secretary of State join with me in thanking the local residents who heeded the calls not to visit A and E unless it was a real emergency, both at Bedford Hospital and the Luton and Dunstable Hospital, and also to praise those independent coach operators, Johnson's, Tate's Britannia and Angie's that I'm aware of who, as ever, have jumped in and quietly put all hands to the pump.

17:08

I would, of course, join her in thanking those independent coach operators that she has mentioned, operators that she has mentioned, and she is also right to call out not only the incredible work of our NHS staff at the three hospitals where individuals were sent, but also to recognise the patience and forbearance of the local community in ensuring that the staff in the NHS can focus on those individuals NHS can focus on those individuals who have been most seriously injured, and through her, I would like to thank her community for like to thank her community for their cooperation in that this weekend.

17:08

Rt Hon Heidi Alexander MP, The Secretary of State for Transport (Swindon South, Labour)

- -

Richard Fuller thank you very much, Madam Deputy Speaker. May I thank the Secretary of State and her ministerial team for their support of Members of Parliament and affected constituencies since the collision, and add to the many voices that praise the response of

17:09

Richard Fuller MP (North Bedfordshire, Conservative)

- -

Bedfordshire emergency services immediately following the collision. The brilliant work of TransLink The brilliant work of TransLink staff at stations redirecting passengers who weren't on those trains but had journeys to make, trains but had journeys to make, and the tremendous work that's undergoing right now by Network Rail to move the carriages off the Rail to move the carriages off the track. My condolences also to the family of the deceased driver and family of the deceased driver and to my thoughts with those in hospital.

I spoke to one of my constituents on the weekend who is in hospital. He faces two very serious operations and on his behalf I ask this question. We want the RAIB to complete their investigation thoroughly and without speculation. But when it is complete, will the Secretary of State give her assurance that she will work tirelessly and fully to implement their recommendations as speedily and effectively as possible, so that this rare incident becomes ever rarer still?

17:10

Rt Hon Heidi Alexander MP, The Secretary of State for Transport (Swindon South, Labour)

- -

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his question, and I know he and I his question, and I know he and I were in direct contact on Friday evening, and I thank him for the evening, and I thank him for the recognition that he's given to the railway staff, including those from Thameslink who provided assistance on the evening. I can, of course, give him that guarantee that as soon as the RAIB make recommendations to the government, if there are matters on which we need to act, we will do so swiftly and we will consider their recommendations with the utmost diligence that a tragedy of this nature deserves.

17:11

Sarah Owen MP (Luton North, Labour)

- -

Sarah Owen thank you, Madam. >> For her. >> Statement and wholeheartedly. Agree that all our thoughts should be with the loved ones of Shaun Burton, his colleagues, and to those who have been seriously injured. Would my right hon. Friend join me in thanking the emergency services, including the NHS staff at Luton and Dunstable Hospital in my constituency, who will have no doubt have gone above and beyond for all of those affected and what support is being offered for the emergency services that attended the scenes and the days that have followed.

Many will have take this in their stride, but many will have been impacted by what they have seen and what they have experienced, and they also deserve our support.

17:11

Rt Hon Heidi Alexander MP, The Secretary of State for Transport (Swindon South, Labour)

- -

I join my hon. Friend in thanking all of those who have thanking all of those who have responded to this horrific incident. I know that the Samaritans, the I know that the Samaritans, the international Red cross, are involved in providing support to individuals. I know that East Midlands Railway have set up a contact line for anyone affected by this incident, and she is absolutely right to highlight the the outstanding bravery of many people involved in responding to this incident.

There would have been horrific injuries that many people will have sustained, and so it's important that we support those who dealt with the horrific moment in the immediacy of the incident, and I will I will leave no stone unturned in making sure that those individuals are supported.

17:12

Daisy Cooper MP (St Albans, Liberal Democrat)

- -

Daisy Cooper thank you, Madam >> Daisy Cooper thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. Can I also extend my thanks to the emergency services, railway staff, NHS and community volunteers who showed enormous bravery and humanity, and my thoughts are with the family of Shaun Burton and all those who are injured. My constituents in Saint Albans are shocked and shaken that such a tragic, tragic accident could happen so close to home. The Secretary of State will be aware that the Thameslink line south of Bedford is likely to breach capacity within five years.

On a separate occasion, I will press the Secretary of State on the question of investment in capacity. But for just for today, for my constituents who are very concerned that our lines are getting busier and busier and busier, what assurances can she provide that as our train lines do get busier, safety will always remain paramount?

17:13

Rt Hon Heidi Alexander MP, The Secretary of State for Transport (Swindon South, Labour)

- -

I've said earlier today that we are fortunate in having some of the are fortunate in having some of the safest railways in the world, and I know that, as I said in my statement, that won't provide any consolation to anyone who was impacted by this incident. As we set up Great British Railways, safety will remain absolutely central to everything that the railway does. I remember when I was working at transport for London, we often talked about the fact that everyone should be able to get safe home at the end of every day, be those people working on the railway or people travelling on the railway.

And that's completely the culture that we will take forward into Great British Railways. We will make the right investments to ensure the right maintenance is done, because everyone needs to be assured that they are travelling on a safe railway whenever they get on a train.

17:14

Rachel Hopkins MP (Luton South and South Bedfordshire, Labour)

- -

Rachel Hopkins thank you. Mr. Speaker. >> Train drivers keep our country running and help contribute billions to our economy. They get people to work to their holidays people to work to their holidays and to see their friends and family. They deliver the food for our supermarkets and the materials to build our houses and infrastructure. No one should go to work and worry they will not come home. This incident has been shocking and as chair of the Aslef parliamentary Group, I'd like to share my solidarity and thoughts with Sean's family and friends and colleagues with Aslef, the trade union and with all the rail and emergency workers who dealt with the situation with such professionalism.

So can I ask the Secretary of State what she's doing in order to support drivers and to maintain and improve safety for everyone who uses and works on our railways?

17:15

Rt Hon Heidi Alexander MP, The Secretary of State for Transport (Swindon South, Labour)

- -

My hon. Friend is completely right to highlight the absolutely vital role that train drivers play, and I would like to put on record my thanks to Dave Calf, the General my thanks to Dave Calf, the General Secretary as of Aslef, for his statement over the weekend. The Rail Minister has spoken with the General Secretary and we will continue to work to ensure that drivers are safe. This has been a horrific incident but thankfully it's a very rare incident on our railways and I will make sure that we continue that close collaboration to ensure that everyone's staff and passengers is safe when they're on our trains.

Deputy.

17:16

Rosie Wrighting MP (Kettering, Labour)

- -

Speaker, and I would like to thank the Secretary of State and her Department for the constant communication over the weekend and emergency services who responded so emergency services who responded so quickly, and also my hon. Friend the Member for Wellingborough, who has no longer on the front bench, but we're in constant communication about how we can support our constituencies over the last few days, and my thoughts are with everyone affected and a loved one of the driver who so tragically lost his life.

This crash has been felt acutely in Kettering. Both trains stopped in Kettering before the collision, and it's felt like everyone knows someone who's been impacted by it. To add the real human element of the impact of this tragedy, I want to mention a story of one of my constituents who was injured, a broken nose and extensive injuries to her back and neck. Following the crash, she and her friends had to walk through a hedge and fields where they then had to arrange private transport to Kettering General Hospital and understandably traumatic experience.

And she has shown great strength following. Can the Minister reassure those, like my constituents, that the government will work with the Department of Health to offer support for those following this tragic event?

17:17

Rt Hon Heidi Alexander MP, The Secretary of State for Transport (Swindon South, Labour)

- -

Yes. >> Yes. >> I can reassure my hon. Friend that, and she is right to highlight that, and she is right to highlight the very, very human impact of what has happened here. The trains were busy trains coming into London on a Friday evening, and it concerns me to hear that my hon. Friend's constituents have had to organise their own private transport. If she'd like to write to me in more detail about that set of circumstances, I would like to look into that further, because I know wraparound support was provided at the scene, and if anyone didn't experience that, then I would like to know so that we can be in contact with them and learn any lessons that we need to.

17:18

Lee Barron MP (Corby and East Northamptonshire, Labour)

- -

Lee Barron thank you. >> Is the Member of Parliament for Corby and East Northamptonshire. Could I agree with everybody in relation to the emergency services, the NHS, the community who came together, the guards, the staff and the passengers as well who didn't go through the panic? That sometimes can happen in a situation like that. The 1640 Corby train to London was involved in this fatal collision. No worker should ever go to work, never to return home, and I'm sure all of our thoughts go to the dedication and dedicated Shaun Burton who lost his life, as well as his family and his friends and the family and friends of all of those that were impacted and affected a lot from my constituency who had injuries.

Following this, I've spoken to Ministers over the weekend and I thank them for that. Spoken to Aslef and the RMT unions, and I know that they're offering support. So will the Minister agree with me that train drivers connect our communities and deliver the goods we need? They work in a safety, critical environment and deserve to feel safe, and that passengers and staff affected by this trauma of such an accident like this really do need our operators.

17:19

Rt Hon Heidi Alexander MP, The Secretary of State for Transport (Swindon South, Labour)

- -

It is. >> I do agree with my hon. Friend about that, and I would also like to share my thoughts with the to share my thoughts with the driver of the other train and their family, as well as the on board train crew, some of whom were also injured. And, you know, it's absolutely vital that in government, we do everything we can to make sure that our railways are as safe as they possibly can be. And we will be looking closely at the report from the RAIB when it comes, and I can assure him and his constituents that we will learn any necessary lessons and make any necessary changes.

17:19

Chris Curtis MP (Milton Keynes North, Labour)

- -

Chris Curtis thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. And can I join with the Secretary of State in offering my deepest condolences to the family and friends of the driver, family and friends of the driver, Shaun Burton, whilst also thanking her, the Rail Minister and staff from East Midlands Rail for keeping us updated on what I'm sure was very difficult circumstances on Friday evening and as somebody who represents the railway town of Woolverton, I know how an incident like this has an impact on people right across the rail community.

Will the Secretary of State join me in paying tribute to the emergency services, including brave firefighters from Milton Keynes, who acted quickly and professionally in the aftermath of this tragic incident? Thank you. Mr.

17:20

Rt Hon Heidi Alexander MP, The Secretary of State for Transport (Swindon South, Labour)

- -

I will join my hon. Friend in >> I will join my hon. Friend in thanking the firefighters from Milton Keynes, who were very fast onto the scene. I'd also like to onto the scene. I'd also like to thank all of those from Network Rail who are involved in recovering the trains. Some members may have seen the images of a road being built through a field as we speak, in order to erect a train to be able to lift the carriages off the tracks.

And so this is it was a very serious incident. And I'd like to thank all of those who were involved in responding to the incident and basically seeing the recovery through Shankar.

17:21

Baggy Shanker MP (Derby South, Labour )

- -

Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. >> Recently. >> I was proud to join EMR driver Ross and driver manager Peter travelling from Derby to Saint travelling from Derby to Saint Pancras. From the cab, I saw first hand the skill, dedication and hand the skill, dedication and immense responsibility that every single journey requires of our dedicated train drivers. Friday's crash was tragically demonstrated. The scale of that responsibility and my thoughts are with the family and friends and colleagues of driver Shaun Burton alongside everybody injured and affected.

Will the Secretary of State join me in commending the brilliant work that our train drivers do day in, day out, up and down the country? Yes.

17:22

Rt Hon Heidi Alexander MP, The Secretary of State for Transport (Swindon South, Labour)

- -

I wholeheartedly agree with the >> I wholeheartedly agree with the remarks of my hon. Friend and anyone who like him has been in a anyone who like him has been in a cab with a driver, will understand the skills and attention to detail and alertness that drivers require. And you're right to say they often go unthanked for the service that they provide, often hidden away in the driver's cab. But billions of journeys each year on a railway network depend upon the service that they provide.

And so he is completely right to highlight that.

17:22

James Naish MP (Rushcliffe, Labour)

- -

James Naish thank you, Madam >> James Naish thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker, and on behalf of my constituents of Rushcliffe in Nottinghamshire, I express my Nottinghamshire, I express my condolences to the family of the deceased driver, but also to those involved, and give my thanks to the emergency services. This was particularly poignant. My office manager had a 12 year old nephew who was in one of the carriages, Arthur, and so I know he's sustained injuries, but thankfully has come out relatively unscathed.

Can I just press the Secretary of State to confirm that those who are investigating the crash will be resourced appropriately, so that they can make sure that the investigations are concluded as quickly as possible? Thank you. Thank you.

17:23

Rt Hon Heidi Alexander MP, The Secretary of State for Transport (Swindon South, Labour)

- -

Can I give my best wishes to Arthur? And I'm pleased to hear that whilst he's sustained injuries, that whilst he's sustained injuries, he's hopefully on the road to recovery. And let me reassure my hon. Friend that the RAIB and the BTP who are involved in investigations will be appropriately resourced, appropriately equipped in order to do their work thoroughly. As I said in my statement, we are anticipating an update from the RAIB in the coming days, and I will be.

I will ensure that he is kept informed. Juliet Campbell.

17:23

Juliet Campbell MP (Broxtowe, Labour)

- -

Thank you. of State for her statement and also for keeping us up to date this weekend. I'd like to take this weekend. I'd like to take this opportunity to offer my condolences to the family and friends of the driver, Shaun Burton, who sadly lost his life following this truly heartbreaking incident, and send my very best wishes to all of those who were injured on Friday. I'd like to also take this opportunity to pay tribute to the emergency services, the railway staff and local responders for their swift response, ensuring passenger safety and also providing emergency care and urgent care on the scene.

Can I ask the Secretary of State to provide an update on the work required before services can be safely resumed, and how passengers will be kept informed of the work in progress.

17:24

I'm grateful for that question. As I alluded to in my remarks As I alluded to in my remarks earlier, it is a complicated process now to finalise the investigations on site, remove the trains from the track. Some will have to be hoisted off of the track by crane. We will need to move over overhead line equipment in order to do that. That will then need to be repaired. The track will need to be repaired before before services can resume.

That is why we anticipate the line between Bedford and Luton the line between Bedford and Luton being closed for the rest of this week. As soon as I have more information on service resumption, information on service resumption, I will make sure that members along the line of route get that information so it can be shared with their constituents.

17:25

Rt Hon Heidi Alexander MP, The Secretary of State for Transport (Swindon South, Labour)

- -

Jim Dickson thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. And can I.

17:25

Jim Dickson MP (Dartford, Labour)

- -

in sending condolences to the family of Shaun Burton who died in the accident, in wishing those who the accident, in wishing those who were injured a speedy and full recovery and thanking the emergency recovery and thanking the emergency services for their prompt action on Friday. It's very important that we've heard from the Secretary of State that a full investigation is ongoing and that all lessons will be fully learned in order to avoid be fully learned in order to avoid a repeat.

I wonder if the Secretary of State can reassure my constituents that the disruption to Thameslink services that we've seen south of the Thames arising from the partial line closure, including temporary interruption of services from Rainham through Dartford to Luton, will last no longer than is necessary for that full investigation to take place.

17:26

Rt Hon Heidi Alexander MP, The Secretary of State for Transport (Swindon South, Labour)

- -

We are obviously very keen to make sure that normal service patterns can be resumed as soon as possible, but there is extensive work still to be done at the site, work still to be done at the site, and we do need to make sure that everything is in perfect working order before we resume those services, but I will I will make sure that we keep him updated, as I will do other hon. Members as soon as we've got more information.

17:26

Linsey Farnsworth MP (Amber Valley, Labour)

- -

Linsey Farnsworth thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. Can I thank the right hon. Friend for her statement and associate myself with statement and associate myself with her comments regarding the sad loss of the train driver, Shaun Burton and her. Thanks to the emergency services staff and volunteers who helped at the scene. Madam Deputy Speaker, many of my constituents in Amber Valley travel on that line regularly and frequently. So what? So may I ask the Secretary of State what reassurance she can give them that everything is being done to ensure their safety? Travelling on this specific line once it is back open? And can she reassure those of my constituency constituents contacting me that are worried that, of course the line won't be

17:27

Rt Hon Heidi Alexander MP, The Secretary of State for Transport (Swindon South, Labour)

- -

Be reopened until it's absolutely safe for it to be so. >> I can give my hon. Friend the reassurance that the line won't be reassurance that the line won't be opened until it is absolutely safe opened until it is absolutely safe to do so. There are, you know, very detailed procedures that the railway will go through in order to ensure that it is safe to resume services, we need to remove the trains from the track, as I've set out, need to repair the damage that will have been done to overhead line equipment and the tracks, but I can assure her that Network Rail, the train operating company and my department will be making sure that everything is done so that that line is safe when it reopens.

Mishra.

17:28

Navendu Mishra MP (Stockport, Labour)

- -

Madam Deputy Speaker Madam Deputy Speaker. >> On behalf of the people of Stockport, our thoughts and prayers are with Shaun Burton family and friends. EMR East Midlands Railway serves Stockport and connects us to serves Stockport and connects us to Sheffield, Nottingham and beyond. So I want to thank all EMR staff and all the railway workers that support those services. Can I please ask the Secretary of State to reassure the House that British Transport Police, the Rail Accident Investigation Branch and EMR will have the support of her department and the wider government in terms of this investigation?

17:29

Rt Hon Heidi Alexander MP, The Secretary of State for Transport (Swindon South, Labour)

- -

I can assure my hon. Friend, that I spoke this weekend to the Chief Constable of the BTP, Lucy Dorsey. I also spoke to the Managing Director of EMR, and this Managing Director of EMR, and this morning I was briefed by the safety Director of Network Rail. We will make sure that the investigation that the RAIB and BTP do independently is appropriately resourced. As I've said in answer to a previous question, and I will look very carefully at any recommendations that are forthcoming about how we can improve safety on the railways.

17:29

Adam Thompson MP (Erewash, Labour)

- -

Adam Thompson thank you, Madam >> Adam Thompson thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. Ian is a railway town. On Saturday, a train driver town. On Saturday, a train driver who lives in my constituency stopped me to tell me that he'd known the driver who was killed in the incident, Shaun Burton, and that he had himself been driving one of the two involved trains earlier that day. Like many colleagues in the House and my constituents, my team and I are also regular passengers on the line.

While we should never speculate on causes, could the Secretary of State please elaborate on the steps that she is taking to investigate what happened here and to communicate the findings of that investigation?

17:30

Rt Hon Heidi Alexander MP, The Secretary of State for Transport (Swindon South, Labour)

- -

As someone who also represents a railway town in Swindon, I understand his experiences in Long understand his experiences in Long Eaton, in being stopped in the street by members of the railway family, and it will be a particularly challenging time for them at the moment. I do understand that. Can I assure him that the RAIB, the Rail Accident Investigation Branch, would be doing its work independently? They were on the scene quickly and as I say, an update will be forthcoming in the coming days.

The BTP will continue their investigations as well, and I will make sure that all MPs along the line of route are kept informed as we get more information about this incident and any recommendations that flow from the investigations that are done. much.

17:31

Jonathan Davies MP (Mid Derbyshire, Labour)

- -

Madam Deputy Speaker. I thank my >> Madam Deputy Speaker. I thank my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for her statement, and I very much associate myself with her much associate myself with her remarks and condolences with the driver's family, those who are injured, and offer my thanks to those who responded from the emergency services, those in the NHS who continue to provide care and treatment, and also railway staff. I very much welcome her comment that she will heed the recommendations of the RAIB and consider those very carefully, but I am conscious that many of my constituents use that stretch of railway.

I note that there was a recommendation not to travel unless it is essential, but for some, including key workers, they may have to use the railway and use alternative lines. I'm conscious that there may be extra pressure on those lines, and also that, particularly in this hot weather, that tempers sometimes fray on the railway. So I would be grateful if she could keep the situation on the other neighbouring lines under review, to make sure that there's capacity and support for the staff working on those other operators if they need it.

17:32

Rt Hon Heidi Alexander MP, The Secretary of State for Transport (Swindon South, Labour)

- -

I can assure my hon. Friend that the railway will act as one in these challenging weeks, and we have made tickets available to be used on other operators, and we will, as we always do, keep in close contact with the train operating companies to make sure that there is collaborative working and that people who are disrupted and inconvenienced by this incident, that we keep that disruption and inconvenience to a minimum. Can I thank the Secretary of State for her statement this afternoon, and I will allow a few moments for the frontbenchers to swap over.

Brings us to a statement on the pathway study puberty suppression. Secretary of State for health. Yeah, yeah.

17:33

Ministerial statement: PATHWAYS Clinical Trial

Thank you, Madam. permission, I shall make a statement on the pathways trial. Madam Deputy Speaker, I know what a sensitive, emotive and difficult issue this is. I have myself wrestled with and at times

17:33

Rt Hon James Murray MP, Secretary of State for Health and Social Care (Ealing North, Labour )

- -

struggled with the profound challenges this subject raises in all of my consideration and deliberation over this matter. My bottom line is to protect the safety and wellbeing of children safety and wellbeing of children and young people. The way to do that is to follow expert clinical advice and take an evidence led approach, which is what this approach, which is what this government is doing. We all, as adults, owe a duty of care to every adults, owe a duty of care to every child and young person in the country.

It is a responsibility that I, both as a citizen and as Health Secretary, bear with the utmost seriousness and sincerity. Madam Deputy Speaker, I do not believe that children's safety and well-being was being adequately protected just a few years ago, and I think it will be helpful to remind members how we arrived at that point. For several years before the turn of the decade, the number of children and young people being referred for NHS support around their gender identity increased rapidly.

Stories subsequently emerged of young people struggling after undergoing radical and permanent transition surgery at a young age of children rushed into taking medication without adequate therapy beforehand, and of clinicians disregarding conditions such as neurodiversity and mental health. As such, there was rightly deep concern about the vulnerability of these children and young people, the care and treatment they were receiving, and the surge in referrals. And so in 2020, NHS England commissioned the leading paediatrician, doctor Hilary Cass, to carry out a review into NHS gender identity services for under 18 seconds.

What Doctor Cass uncovered was shocking and scandalous, and she made a series of recommendations for how children can be better protected and supported. I will remind the House that those recommendations were accepted in full by both the conservative government of the time and by my party in opposition. It was, in my mind, clearly wrong for children and young people to be routinely prescribed puberty blockers for gender dysphoria, without any clear evidence on their benefits or risks. The situation was out of control, and so I fully supported the indefinite ban introduced by my predecessor, the right hon.

Member for Ilford North, which followed the temporary ban brought in by the previous government. In considering what to do next. Madam Deputy Speaker, and as my predecessors in this role also recognised, I do not think there has been any one with more respect as a clinician in this space than Doctor Cass, who identified treatment for gender incongruence as, and I quote, an area of remarkably weak evidence. She found that even clinicians working in the field were divided on the best way to support, treat and care.

Young people suffering gender dysphoria, where there is strong divergence of medical opinion on treatment. The two possible responses are to continue with the uncertainty and with that conflicting opinions and advice, or to undertake a trial not just to resolve a dispute, but to make sure that in this case, that children with gender related distress get the same standards of care as everyone else in the NHS. Now, as Doctor Cass has said, the vast majority of children and young people who question their gender will resolve it without needing any support other than their friends and family.

For many young people, questioning their identity or many different fronts is a normal part of growing up and we should simply let them be. For a small number of these young people, though, they need greater support because of the level and longevity of discomfort they feel, and this can often involve counselling or therapy. And for a very, very small number of young people, it is possible, and I emphasise the word possible here, that medical treatment would help improve their quality of life and mental health and reduce their gender related distress.

That is why Doctor Cass, whose approach until recently commanded cross-party consensus, recommended a trial to establish how best to support children and young people suffering gender incongruence. That is the pathway study. Madam Deputy Speaker. It has four main parts, one of which is the clinical trial to study the effects of puberty suppressing hormones on young people's physical, social and emotional well-being. The Pathways trial, which is being led by King's College London and the South London and Maudsley NHS Foundation Trust, was initially approved last November.

The trial seeks to gain evidence on whether those potential benefits are real, alongside evidence on whether such treatment comes with the risk of harm. It is right that this government is guided by expert clinical advice and by clinical, evidence led approach. But as this involves children and so comes with a particular responsibility. As Health Secretary, I have sought the most detailed assurances possible from my clinical advisers about how children taking part in the trial will be protected. There are a number of important safeguards.

Children can only participate with the consent of a parent or guardian, and the child themselves must consent or assent. They can only participate if they have a diagnosis of gender incongruence for at least two years. They can only participate if they have received psychosocial support through the NHS. They can only participate if they are of stable physical and mental health. They can only participate if they are not subject to any safeguarding concerns. They can only participate if they and their parents demonstrate sufficient understanding of the nature of the treatment, including its potential advantages and disadvantages.

They can only participate if they have been deemed clinically appropriate by both the NHS care team and the national multidisciplinary team, and they can only participate if they are already accessing NHS gender services. And so, Madam Deputy Speaker, when it comes to eligibility, we are talking about a very small subset of a very small group. The number of young people who would expect to qualify for the trial will be low, and the safeguards to ensure their safety and wellbeing rigorous. And once they are on the trial, I have sought and had reassurance that the participants may be withdrawn at any point.

As members will know, the MHRA raised new concerns at the beginning of this year. The start of the trial was delayed so that these concerns could be fully scrutinised. On Thursday last week, the regulators approved an updated protocol that significantly strengthened the objective criteria for withdrawing children from the trial, and I welcome that change. Signs of greater risk to participants will now trigger increased monitoring, clinical review or the automatic withdrawal from the trial. All participants will be monitored before at the start of every three months, during and after the trial, before and during the trial, information will be collected about the mental health, quality of life, self-harm and suicidality, body image, cognition, puberty, stage, physical health and side effects for bone health.

Puberty is normally a time of rapid bone gain, and so with changes in bone density are identified. This will lead to reassessment of whether to continue in the trial, with there being set criteria for automatic withdrawal for fertility, there is no published scientific evidence of irreversible changes, but this will be proactively addressed with every participant offered repeated counselling and a range of options to preserve their fertility and for cognition. Whilst there are no established scientific reports proving a cognitive effect, the new protocol now sets out strict definitions for investigation and automatic withdrawal of young people from the trial.

The new criteria for the increased monitoring or withdrawing children from the trial will mean that at the first sign of negative impacts, action will be taken. Madam Deputy Speaker. These criteria will stop short term harm and the view of the National Institute for Health and Care Research is that this means any long term harm should not occur or go unnoticed. These reassurances about preventing harm to those children who take part in the trial and taking clear action, if any risks appear to increase, are critical and after considering this matter closely over the past few days, I have also now requested monthly updates on the progress of the trial, including any emerging risks.

Madam Deputy Speaker pathways is rightly one of the most scrutinised UK clinical trials of recent times. We should expect nothing less when we are talking about the health and wellbeing of some of the most vulnerable children in our country. Yet, as Doctor Cass has made clear, we have to build the evidence base to show whether the treatments are safe and whether they produce the positive outcomes that young people and their clinicians want from them. And so my view is that proceeding with the trial is, on balance, the most appropriate way forward.

This has not been easy. I am sure many members are also wrestling with this dilemma. And as we debate this issue today, I hope we keep in mind doctor Cass's asked to consider the issue sensitively and cautiously as she says and I quote, polarisation and stifling of debate do nothing to help the young people caught in the middle of a stormy social discourse and in the long run, will also hamper the research that is essential to finding the best way of supporting them to thrive.

Madam Deputy Speaker, I will not pretend that I do not continue to feel discomfort and unease about this, but I believe the only way for us all to come to a fair and settled conclusion on this matter, to move forward as a country on this difficult and sensitive issue, is to do so on the basis of clinical evidence in which we trust, thanks to the strengthened criteria now in place for monitoring children's wellbeing and withdrawing them from the trial, there is now intense scrutiny and that our robust mechanisms to prevent harm coming to the young people who take part.

It is on that basis that I believe we should follow the advice of clinical experts and seek the clinical evidence that will give us the confidence to know that where we settle on this matter in the future is right. I commend this statement to the House. Johnson.

17:44

Dr Caroline Johnson MP (Sleaford and North Hykeham, Conservative)

- -

Yes. >> Yes. >> Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker, and I declare an interest as an NHS consultant, paediatrician and a consultant, paediatrician and a member of the Royal College of Paediatrics and Child Health. So what does this trial do? Put simply, it takes physically healthy children with normal pubertal development and subjects them to powerful drugs, which may weaken their bones, affect their ability to think, damage sexual function and make them unable to have children of their own. Serious stuff for what? To treat a diagnosis of gender incongruence that will probably resolve without treatment.

Let's look at it carefully. Gender incongruence is a subjective condition. How someone says they feel there are no lab markers and no scans. Now that, of course, is not necessarily unusual. In fact, it's common in mental health conditions. Gender incongruence is often self self-resolving. It gets better on its own. Again, not unusual in paediatrics. It's really common for children to be admitted to hospital for supportive care, for things like gastroenteritis and respiratory viruses. Puberty blockers are powerful drugs, powerful treatment with significant long term consequences.

Again, not new to paediatrics. Some chemotherapy, for example, has substantial short and long term consequences. But what is unusual and I think toxic, is the combination of all three. Medicine is about balancing risk. Where else would we give powerful drugs with potentially serious long term consequences for a subjective condition, which is likely to get better on its own? Now? Madam Deputy Speaker, I understand this trial has been approved, but time and again we have seen and heard how fear and hostility can distort priorities.

We have seen tragedy occur when fears of accusations of racism limited mental health treatment. We have seen profound suffering when fear of accusations of Islamophobia, limited inquiries into the grooming gangs, the health care of children distressed about their gender is another topic where there have been attempts to shut down debate with threat and accusations of transphobia. Such reports were reported after the Tavistock when considering treatments for life with lifelong implications, we have a duty to be careful and sensible. So I ask the Secretary of State why is this government funding a trial which will cause harm to physically healthy children? These children may be 11 years old.

Tanner. Stage two. Madam Deputy Speaker, these are primary school children, some of them with only minimal signs of puberty. Far too young. The MHRA warned in February that the youngest patients are at greatest risk and may end up on puberty blockers for a much longer period, with a higher risk to fertility. Because sperm and eggs have not yet fully developed at Tanner stage two. And Madam Deputy Speaker, I'm reminded of this point in the judgement in Bell v Tavistock. There is no age appropriate way to explain to many of these children what losing their fertility or full sexual function may mean to them in later years.

Yet, as the Secretary of State confirmed, the children themselves must consent or assent to being in the trial. Why did they not heed the MHRA recommendation of a minimum of 14 years? This Labour Government thinks 14 is too young to watch social media. Why does it think 11 is old enough for this trial? Yeah. What is the goal of treatment in the trial? The outcome is the short to medium term effect of quality of life and body satisfaction. Does the Secretary of State believe this is proportionate to the risks of these medications? Is there any evidence suggesting puberty blockers are safer than they were thought to be in 2024, when the government banned them? Following the expert advice from the Commission on Human Medicines, some have suggested that the drugs help adults to pass as the opposite.

Sex. Is the long term damage really worth it? For the cosmetic benefit of a few? And speaking of a few, it is a few because we know that the vast majority will be better without any treatment. Madam Deputy Speaker, he said when it comes to eligibility, we're talking about a very small subset of a very small pool. Even if we were to accept the premise that a very, very small number might benefit from treatment, how could the clinicians identify which those children might be? There is a study of clinical outcomes from kids treated at the Tavistock, due to be completed next year.

That could help. So why is the Secretary of State not waiting until that report is completed? Before conducting an experiment on an unnecessarily broad group of children? Has evidence come to light since the Cass review, which helps clinicians to confidently work out which 11 year olds will become adults with gender dysphoria and which will not. The Secretary of State also said the criteria will stop short term harm, and this means any long term harm should not not occur or go unnoticed. But history is littered with examples of things which do not cause short term harm, but do cause long term damage.

The Secretary of State also suggested that this trial will resolve the dispute. But sadly, Madam Deputy Speaker, I don't think this will be the case because, firstly, a single trial alone rarely does resolve a dispute. And secondly, the comparison group that are not getting the puberty blockers are not randomised under an intrinsically different population. This is something bound to be highlighted once the result is published in medicine. Madam Deputy Speaker, we have a founding principle primum non nocere first, do no harm.

So can I say to the Health Secretary, please cancel this trial before vulnerable children suffer unnecessary, irreversible harm on his watch.

17:49

Rt Hon James Murray MP, Secretary of State for Health and Social Care (Ealing North, Labour )

- -

Thank. >> Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. And in responding to the opposition spokespersons or Shadow Minister's spokespersons or Shadow Minister's comments, I think it's important to reflect on the fact that I actually agree with some of what she said when she talked about most children and young people who are questioning their identity, questioning their gender, being likely to resolve those questions on their own, I think Doctor Cass would agree with that. I think it is, as I said in my opening remarks, right, that for the majority of children who question their gender, let them be.

They will resolve it through their friends and family in their own development. What we are talking about here, Madam Deputy Speaker, is a small subset within a small group of children who need further support, and I would also agree with the the shadow Minister that the situation before Doctor Cass did her review the situation that had developed in the last few years before the turn of the decade was totally unacceptable. And we should be clear that that was wrong.

In response to some of her specific questions, she raised Madam Deputy Speaker, in relation to protecting the young people involved in the trials from harm. As I set out in my earlier remarks, there are there is intense scrutiny, and there are robust mechanisms in place to prevent the children involved from being harmed, she mentioned the MHRA recommendation for the lower age limit. Now, initially there was no lower age limit, but after a scientific dialogue between MHRA and the trial sponsor that led to the agreement, the updated protocol that was published last week, which recommended the minimum ages of 11 and 12, and in terms of younger people and children accessing the trial, Madam Deputy Speaker, the gateways to getting on this trial, to becoming involved in this trial are significant, not just in terms of consent or assent from the children and consent from their parents or guardians, but also in terms of the NHS care team, the national multidisciplinary team and others to give approval before anyone can be involved in these trials.

So, Madam Deputy Speaker, I as I set out in my earlier remarks, you know, I feel uncomfortable and I feel uneasy when considering this matter, but I do think the right way for us to move forward on this is to have the clinical evidence on which to base decisions on the basis that I have received reassurances about the highest possible level of scrutiny and protection from harm for young people involving the trial. That is the basis on which, on balance, I think it is right for this to proceed.

**** Possible New Speaker ****

Danny Beales Madam Deputy Speaker, I thank the Secretary of State for his statement today. The Conservative Party committed and commissioned the Cass Review, and today's statement takes forward

17:52

Danny Beales MP (Uxbridge and South Ruislip, Labour)

- -

today's statement takes forward Doctor Cass's recommendations in full, not guided by ideology, but by evidence. >> Yeah.

**** Possible New Speaker ****

It's been said in this place before by some members critical of this approach that these young this approach that these young people just need love. Well, I agree that we should show trans people and trans young people more care and compassion. There's far often not been demonstrated in public discourse in recent months and years. But to be frank, trans people and young people also need and deserve high quality, evidence based and timely health care. So I welcome today's statement and the Secretary of State's commitment.

And can he also, in his response, outline that this government is still committed to rolling out gender based clinics in every region, as has been previously committed to.

17:53

Rt Hon James Murray MP, Secretary of State for Health and Social Care (Ealing North, Labour )

- -

Secretary of State. >> Secretary of State. >> Madam Deputy Speaker, I thank my hon. Friend for his question and hon. Friend for his question and his remarks, and as he will know, the recommendations set out by Doctor Hilary Cass in her review spoke about how to establish better services for young people in the future. The focus of today's statement around the clinical trial is just one part of the wider work, looking at how best to support young people who need that extra support in this situation.

And I think it was welcomed that there, at least until recently, has been a cross-party consensus that Doctor Cass is finding the right way through this difficult matter.

17:54

Helen Morgan MP (North Shropshire, Liberal Democrat)

- -

Liberal Democrat spokesperson Helen Morgan. and I thank the Secretary of State for advance sight of his statement. Liberal Democrats have long highlighted the need for better access to specialist health care for children and young people struggling with gender identity. The closure of the Tavistock Clinic The closure of the Tavistock Clinic and its inadequate rating by the CQC demonstrated that urgent change was needed. Young people struggling with gender identity face serious challenges. They have been badly let down for years by low care standards and extremely long waiting lists.

And on top of this, they have to contend with a toxic public debate, which comes at a huge cost to their wellbeing. At a particularly vulnerable stage in their life, the average three year waits for young people to see specialists can be extremely harmful at such a vulnerable age. Now, we agree that treatment should firstly be based on talking therapies to give patients the space and support that they need, but it's crucial that young people are able to start these therapies as a matter of urgency, and not after years of delay decisions about these young patients futures should be made in an informed way with expert clinicians and based on the best possible evidence which the NHS must build up safely and effectively, we support prioritising clinical evidence in order to put the interests of patients at the heart of decision making in all areas of health care, guidance and decisions around puberty blockers must be led by experts and by clinical evidence, and not influenced by ideological opinion.

That's why we were supportive of the Secretary of State, the former secretary of State's previous decision to pause the pathways clinical trial, while concerns raised by the MHRA were thoroughly addressed, so will the Secretary of State confirm whether the MRI has confirmed that the concerns that led to the withdrawal of the trial have been substantially addressed, and how many children are anticipated to take part in the trial now that its parameters have been altered?

17:56

Rt Hon James Murray MP, Secretary of State for Health and Social Care (Ealing North, Labour )

- -

Thank you, Secretary of State. >> Thank you, Secretary of State. >> I thank the hon. Lady for her questions in her contribution, and questions in her contribution, and I welcome the fact that she agrees with the government that we should with the government that we should base our decisions about whether and how to provide support for children, particularly in the case of the treatment, which is at the centre of this clinical trial on the basis of clinical evidence and the expert advice of clinicians.

And I think there can be no one in this field more widely respected than Doctor Hilary Cass, whose recommendations form the basis of the decision that we have taken as a government. She asked about the work of the MHRA since early this year to strengthen the safeguards in place for young people involved in the trial. And, you know, as I said earlier in my remarks, I welcome the changes that they have brought forward to strengthen the criteria which lead to greater monitoring, clinical reassessment and indeed set objective criteria for withdrawing children and young people from the trial entirely.

The MHRA has been engaged in a scientific dialogue with the trial sponsors, and it was the outcome of that process which led to them as an independent body publishing the updated protocol toward the end of last week, and now that that is in place, we have greater level of reassurance about the safeguards which are in place. The trial is expected to involve around 226 children and young people. It will go for five and a half years, so it will be over that time period with each participant potentially being offered puberty blockers for up to 24 months.

But as I said, they will be withdrawn if the decision to withdraw is triggered by them. Meeting set objective criteria of the risk of harm.

17:58

Steve Race MP (Exeter, Labour)

- -

Steve Race. I welcome the statement and the calm approach to the Health Secretary has taken on this very, very important issue, and I think very important issue, and I think that's in sharp contrast to some of the other sort of language that's used around this issue. Does the Secretary agree with me that we must follow the science on this when it comes to the pathways trial, avoiding the vilification, the polarising language and the politicisation of this issue, and for the good of young people and for our communities as well.

17:58

Rt Hon James Murray MP, Secretary of State for Health and Social Care (Ealing North, Labour )

- -

Yeah. >> Yeah. >> I absolutely agree with my hon. Friend about the importance of following clinical evidence, clinically led approach and clinically led approach and evidence based decision on this matter. As I said in my earlier remarks, you know, I have felt uncomfortable and uneasy about some of the challenges raised by this matter. But for me, following the clinical advice, basing future decisions on clinical evidence is the right way to move forward. In the context of me having received the most robust assurances about the safeguards which are in place to protect young people involved in this trial from receiving harm.

17:59

Layla Moran MP (Oxford West and Abingdon, Liberal Democrat)

- -

The Health Select Committee. Layla Moran Deputy Speaker. >> Welcoming the statement and. >> Welcoming this approach? I want to thank the MHRA for engaging with the committee. When we asked them specific questions around this, and they told us that the role of the regulator is to ensure that participants in any clinical trial are kept safe and are only exposed to medication medicine if there is a reasonable expectation of a positive effect, and that was what was foremost in their minds. They also reassured us that if they did not feel 100% assured, they would have not allowed the trial to go forward.

So my question to the Secretary of State on this, however, is there is a lot of disquiet by the iterative process that this trial has gone through, that it was stopped, paused and then started again. Could the outline for the house how usual or unusual is that? And for those families who now find themselves excluded from this trial, who might have hoped that they would be part of it, what support does the NHS NHS have for them?

18:00

Rt Hon James Murray MP, Secretary of State for Health and Social Care (Ealing North, Labour )

- -

Secretary of State. >> Secretary of State. >> Well, I thank the hon. Lady for

**** Possible New Speaker ****

Well, I thank the hon. Lady for her, her questions and she will, I'm sure, agree with me that this is now one of the most heavily is now one of the most heavily scrutinised clinical trials in recent history in this country, and rightly so. It's right that it is so heavily scrutinised. It is right that we all seek assurances about the safeguards in place. It is right that, as Health Secretary, I made sure that I got those detailed safeguards before coming to the House to set out the government's position today, she asked me how frequent it is for the MHRA to work with the sponsors of trials.

My understanding is that this is regular, routine way of operating in. The MHRA routinely works with trial sponsors to iterate the protocols in relation to those trials. In relation to this trial, because it involves children and young people. For me, the bar should be exceptionally high for making sure those safeguards are in place, which is why, although my starting principle is that clinical evidence is the right way to approach a matter such as this, I wanted that extra reassurance, which is why I asked for the most detailed possible assurances from my clinical advisers to make sure those safeguards were robust and in place in the way the trial is now designed.

18:02

Adam Thompson MP (Erewash, Labour)

- -

Madam Deputy Speaker before my election, I was a scientist, albeit election, I was a scientist, albeit not one working in the health sciences. Using my background, though, can I agree with the Secretary of State that healthcare practices and medical trials, like all scientific trials, must be led by expertise and evidence, not by expertise and evidence, not politics. Can I ask the Secretary of State then, what precedent is there for politicians, including MPs, in this House, intervening in a medical trial?

18:02

Rt Hon James Murray MP, Secretary of State for Health and Social Care (Ealing North, Labour )

- -

Well, I thank my hon. Friend for his intervention. And, you know, he raises an important point here raises an important point here about the relationship between politics and clinical evidence and politics and clinical evidence and clinically led decisions. And I think it is a decision that I stand behind and that this government stands behind to be led by clinical advice, to be led by clinical evidence. And in this case, it is a matter where. In considering some of the issues raised, I have felt uncomfortable and uneasy.

But that commitment to clinical evidence, particularly recommended by someone as widely respected as Doctor Cass, is the basis on which we can move forward. As I mentioned in response to the the chair of the Health and Social Care Select Committee's question, because this involves children and young people, I wanted to receive an extra assurances for my assurance that the clinical advice was robust and that the safeguards in place would be the most robust they could possibly be. That's the assurance I've received, and that I very much wanted to receive before coming here today.

18:03

Rebecca Paul MP (Reigate, Conservative)

- -

Rebecca Paul thank you. thank the Secretary of State for his statement. No child put on puberty blockers at the earliest puberty blockers at the earliest stage of puberty and whose natural puberty is permanently blocked, will ever have an orgasm or be will ever have an orgasm or be fertile. No child can consent to that. Around 2000 children have already been given puberty blockers for gender distress, so there is ample information available on impact and outcomes held by gender clinics.

It makes no sense to experiment on even more children. Whilst this exercise remains incomplete. Why isn't the Health Secretary prioritising the completion of this important data linkage study first, before experimenting on more children.

18:04

Rt Hon James Murray MP, Secretary of State for Health and Social Care (Ealing North, Labour )

- -

Secretary of State. >> Secretary of State. >> In her remarks, the hon. Lady referred with what appeared to be referred with what appeared to be some certainty around what she considers to be the clinical considers to be the clinical outcomes of these puberty blockers on young people. I have to say that when I consider what Doctor Cass found, I would. I would trust Doctor Cass's conclusion, with all due respect, more than the hon. Ladies, which is that there is no evidence about the risks or the benefits of these medications, this treatment.

And that is exactly why Doctor Cass was so clear in recommending a trial to find that clinical evidence, because that is the basis on which we can take those decisions.

18:05

David Smith MP (North Northumberland, Labour)

- -

David Smith thank you, Madam Speaker. I thank the right hon. Speaker. I thank the right hon. Friend for his detailed and nuanced statement. Notwithstanding the risks of using puberty blockers on risks of using puberty blockers on children that he has outlined and the inability to guarantee that they will not be harmed by participation in the trial, can I ask how the trial can determine long term impacts of the use of puberty blockers when it lasts for only two years, does not show the inefficacy of the trial itself.

And if we really are committed to evidence, which I agree we should be, why are we not, as we have just heard from the hon. Member, why are we not using the long term data that already exists that came from clinics like the Tavistock and that was gathered over many, many years?

18:06

Rt Hon James Murray MP, Secretary of State for Health and Social Care (Ealing North, Labour )

- -

Secretary of State. >> I thank my hon. Friend for his questions. And to two points I think he raised. I mean, firstly, as a result of the work that the MHRA has been doing with these trial sponsors over recent months, there are now objective set criteria against which children and young people involved in the trial would be automatically withdrawn. Those criteria, as I set out earlier, will stop the short term harm and the view of the National Institute for Health and Care Research is that this means any long term harm should not occur or go unnoticed.

I think it is important that we we make sure that the appropriate safeguards are in place for this trial, and that is why I welcome what the MHRA has done over recent months, because that strengthens those safeguards which are which are important in any clinical trial. But in this trial, they could not be more important.

18:07

Sarah Pochin MP (Runcorn and Helsby, Reform UK)

- -

Sarah Pochin thank you. >> Sarah Pochin thank you. >> Madam Deputy Speaker. >> The Minister has said that. >> No child.

**** Possible New Speaker ****

No child. Subject to safeguarding concerns will be considered for participation in this trial. Can he participation in this trial. Can he confirm, therefore, that no already vulnerable children currently in the care system will be accepted onto this trial?

18:07

Rt Hon James Murray MP, Secretary of State for Health and Social Care (Ealing North, Labour )

- -

True statements. >> True statements. >> The hon. Lady is right to draw attention to some of the the gateways, if you like, that gateways, if you like, that children and young people have to go through before they might be accepted onto this trial. And this accepted onto this trial. And this will involve not just the child themselves consenting or assenting and the parents giving consent, but also the NHS care team and a national multidisciplinary team, which will take into consideration all of the different aspects of a child's life that I set out in my earlier remarks about their health, but also the wider context that the children are coming from, because the importance here is to make sure that there is an exceptionally high bar for children and young people taking part in this trial, and that is the process which has now been established.

much.

18:08

Jonathan Davies MP (Mid Derbyshire, Labour)

- -

Madam Deputy Speaker. I thank >> Madam Deputy Speaker. I thank the Secretary of State for the way in which he has delivered his statement. In December 2025, the statement. In December 2025, the BMJ reported that the pathways trial should wait for findings from trial should wait for findings from former patients treated by Gids between 2009 and 2020, and a data linkage study of 9000 patients who are now adults has full HRA approval, and NHS England encouraged those gender clinicians to cooperate with the with the with the study describing it as an opportunity to gather high quality evidence.

But the BMJ reported that the clinicians refused to share their data. Hilary Cass said that was extraordinary. Can you tell us whether all the data that's out there is available and whether it's being shared appropriately?

18:09

Rt Hon James Murray MP, Secretary of State for Health and Social Care (Ealing North, Labour )

- -

Secretary of State. >> Secretary of State. >> I thank my hon. Friend for his question. He raises the question question. He raises the question around the data linkage study, and I apologise. My hon. Friend who asked the question a second ago, I apologise. He also asked about data linkage study and I apologise for not responding at that time. But now my other hon. Friend has mentioned it, I can I can do so together, and I think it's important to understand that the type of information in the linkage study is much more limited than the detailed information that the research team will be able to collect about the relative benefits and risks of puberty blockers.

Now, NHS England is, however, committed to delivering the data linkage study. And since NHS England assumed responsibility for that study, they've taken time to make sure that the data is shared by relevant organisations. And I can make absolutely clear, for the avoidance of all doubt, that the government's clear expectation is that all relevant organisations will provide the data required to complete that study.

18:10

Rt Hon Sir John Hayes MP (South Holland and The Deepings, Conservative)

- -

Sir John Hayes. Tavistock Clinic in this House in 2019, provoked to do so by staff who said that they were often under who said that they were often under pressure to refer young people for life altering treatment being done on children who have experienced mental health difficulties, abuse and family trauma. Indeed, the Secretary of State will know the Cass Review found that childhood trauma, neglect and abuse feature heavily in the cohort of patients seeking gender changes. As many as two thirds of those referred had suffered neglect or abuse, with high levels of parental mental illness, substance abuse, exposure, domestic violence.

So will he, even at this late juncture, abandoned this trial? I have no reason to believe he's anything other than a good man who wants to do the right thing. He's made it clear that he knows this matter often sorts itself out through puberty and adulthood. I implore him to do so, for I fear that because he's a good man, he will regret this cruel experiment on harmless children.

18:11

Rt Hon James Murray MP, Secretary of State for Health and Social Care (Ealing North, Labour )

- -

Secretary of State. >> I thank the right hon. Gentleman for his comments, and although he and I come to a different conclusion on this, I don't doubt conclusion on this, I don't doubt for a second the sincerity of his motivation in wanting to protect children and young people, and I actually agree with him. As I said in my earlier comments, that the majority, most young children who are questioning their gender will resolve it on their own. Let them be to resolve it.

But there are a small subset of children who will need extra support. And within that, there is a question about whether for a very small subset of them, there might be a benefit of having a treatment. And that's what this trial seeks to conclude. I would also the add, Madam Deputy Speaker, that the right hon. Gentleman refers to what happened in the Tavistock Clinic and the the the stories that led to Doctor Hilary Cass being commissioned. He and I, I think, agree how unacceptable that situation was, and I would put on record my thanks to Sir Sajid Javid for commissioning the work by Doctor Cass, because it has been such an important piece of work, not only to expose what was happening before, but to provide a way forward.

18:12

Lizzi Collinge MP (Morecambe and Lunesdale, Labour)

- -

Lizzi Collinge thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. Puberty suppressors have been used for many years for precocious puberty, but the evidence base for their use in gender dysphoria did lack rigour. So I welcome the news that the trial will go ahead, as recommended trial will go ahead, as recommended by the Cass Review. Can the Secretary of State confirm that medications are only one part of the research that's going on, and can he outline some of the other measures being looked at? Furthermore, given the small numbers expected to take part in this trial, will research also be undertaken to look at the impact on those young people who are showing gender distress but unable to access a trial or, of course, prescribed puberty blockers in order to have that full clinical picture.

And will he furthermore ensure that all young children showing gender distress will have some care and support state?

18:13

Rt Hon James Murray MP, Secretary of State for Health and Social Care (Ealing North, Labour )

- -

I thank my hon. Friend for her >> I thank my hon. Friend for her question, and she's absolutely right to point out that the clinical trial, the pathways study clinical trial, the pathways study that we're talking about in this session in the House, is just one part of the wider work being done to make sure that the support is there for children and young people who are questioning their gender and who might or might not only support to, to, to make themselves feel, to feel well about themselves.

The Pathways Horizon is an observational study of all children who are young people who are attending NHS children and young people's specialist gender services. The Pathways Connect is a brain imaging study. Pathways voices will interview young people. Horizon intensive is about making sure that there is a comparison group of 300 participants who are expressing gender incongruence but are not receiving puberty suppressing hormones, as she suggested. The pathways trial, which is the subject of the statement, is just one part of that wider work.

much.

18:14

Christine Jardine MP (Edinburgh West, Liberal Democrat)

- -

Madam Deputy Speaker And can I >> Madam Deputy Speaker And can I welcome the statement and the tone the Minister has taken, because I think it is important that we all think it is important that we all acknowledge that we are dealing with young children here, and their safety is paramount. Not only that, safety is paramount. Not only that, but while many young children, many children will resolve the issue themselves, there are an important group of children for well, for whom that will not be the case.

And they face enormous challenges and we must do everything we can. I also welcome his stress of the need of the importance of talking therapies. But given the long waiting list and the difficulty in getting access to those talking therapies, how is the Minister going to ensure that children get the support that they need and that

**** Possible New Speaker ****

there are adequate staff, they're properly qualified to support them? Secretary of.

**** Possible New Speaker ****

State. I thank the hon. Lady for her remarks and also for her tone and remarks and also for her tone and approach to this sensitive matter. I think, sadly, waiting lists across many different parts of the NHS are something that we have in this country, and that this

18:15

Rt Hon James Murray MP, Secretary of State for Health and Social Care (Ealing North, Labour )

- -

this country, and that this government is determined to deal with so that everyone can receive the appropriate treatment that they need. I think there are wider questions we could debate at another time around what support children might need if they're questioning their their identity, because the focus of this statement today is very specifically on the on the clinical trial. I believe it's right that we we let that happen. It will it's going to last five and a half years.

It is right that we do that trial thoroughly, because I do not want this country to be in a situation where we are taking decisions in the future, not based on the most solid of evidence.

18:16

James Naish MP (Rushcliffe, Labour)

- -

James Naish thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker, and. I welcome confirmation that the pathway to confirmation that the pathway to clinical trial will continue with these modified protocols in place. I do believe it was an important I do believe it was an important manifesto commitment for the trans community. I wonder whether he would share my view. Secretary of would share my view. Secretary of State would share my view that this might help to reduce the risk in the long term, of vulnerable young people seeking to access drugs online, which is something that is currently happening in my constituency state.

18:17

Rt Hon James Murray MP, Secretary of State for Health and Social Care (Ealing North, Labour )

- -

I thank my hon. Friend for his his remarks and his question, and this is, in fact, something that Doctor Cass has raised a number of times, particularly when she has spoken in public in being interviewed about her concerns about young people accessing equivalent drugs through an unregulated source, accessing them online through sources where they are not carefully controlled, and where there is no monitoring of the effect on young people. That is part of her motivation for recommending the approach that she is.

And as I said earlier, for for me and for the government, it is because we want the decisions about what role, if any, such treatments play in the future. We want that to be based on the outcome of clinical evidence, but with the highest possible safeguards in place for children involved in those trials.

18:17

Rebecca Smith MP (South West Devon, Conservative)

- -

Rebecca Smith Deputy Speaker I want to just press the Secretary of State a little further on, looked after children in particular. At the beginning of his statement, he said that his bottom line is to said that his bottom line is to protect the safety and wellbeing of children and young people. Well, given that parental or guardian permission has to be granted for the trial to take place, I'm wondering who will give that permission. If you are a child in care, will it be himself, the Secretary of State? Will it be the foster parent? Will it be a social worker from a local council? Because we already know that looked after children are overrepresented within this cohort of children with gender dysphoria.

And I think ultimately, if we're going to protect them and make sure that their safety and well-being is at the forefront, we need some clear direction on what that's going to look like.

18:18

Rt Hon James Murray MP, Secretary of State for Health and Social Care (Ealing North, Labour )

- -

Secretary of State. >> I thank the hon. Lady for her question, which I think highlights the importance we all put on making the importance we all put on making sure that vulnerable children are protected in the way that this trial proceeds. And perhaps I can trial proceeds. And perhaps I can offer her some detail which might reassure her by explaining who is on the the national multidisciplinary team. As I mentioned earlier, the national multidisciplinary team will have to give permission for young people to be involved in this trial, as will the NHS care team.

That national multidisciplinary team will be made up, has an independent chair and the membership made up of senior clinicians and a range of clinical backgrounds. And if I can just list very briefly, the committee Madam Deputy Speaker, paediatric endocrinology, general paediatrics, child and adolescent mental health, clinical nursing, safeguarding and adolescent medicine, allied health and service leadership. So those are the specialities which are represented in the national multidisciplinary team, which means that that aspects of child's well-being are all being considered

**** Possible New Speaker ****

in that process. Peter Swallow thank. You, Madam. Deputy Speaker.

**** Possible New Speaker ****

Deputy Speaker. On a quiet day in Westminster, I've had a chance to dive into the Conservative Party's 2024 manifesto, Conservative Party's 2024 manifesto, where they promised we will complete the implementation of the complete the implementation of the Cass Review. A similar commitment appeared in our own manifesto, which we are now cracking on and

18:19

Peter Swallow MP (Bracknell, Labour)

- -

which we are now cracking on and delivering. Does my right hon. Friend share my concern that the party opposite seem to have abandoned their commitments?

18:20

Rt Hon James Murray MP, Secretary of State for Health and Social Care (Ealing North, Labour )

- -

Secretary of State. >> I share my hon. Friend's disappointment that what was a cross-party consensus for the way cross-party consensus for the way to approach this issue seemed not currently to be holding, but I would urge members who are on the would urge members who are on the other side of the House who are not currently on a cross-party consensus on this, to reconsider their position, because I think that is the best way forward for our country.

18:20

Rosie Duffield MP (Canterbury, Independent)

- -

Rosie Duffield thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. advice of clinical experts, but has he sought any meetings with whistleblowers? Former clinicians at the now closed Tavistock Clinic, Detransitioners and psychologists like James S Marcus and Sue Evans all campaigning to stop this trial and the testing of children as young as 11 years old, too young to even access social media, and certainly not to give meaningful consent to taking banned drugs.

18:21

Rt Hon James Murray MP, Secretary of State for Health and Social Care (Ealing North, Labour )

- -

Secretary of State. >> Madam Deputy Speaker, I can reassure the hon. Lady as I set out in my responses to earlier questions during this statement, that whilst my starting point is that clinical evidence should be that clinical evidence should be the basis of our way forward, I have taken the responsibility to interrogate that with the highest level of scrutiny myself, to make sure that the conclusions are as robust as possible. And that has involved me making sure that my clinical advisers at the Department for Health and Social Care and the other bodies associated with the department, have had to provide me with the highest level of detail and reassurance about the safeguards which were in place, because although the principle of following clinical advice and basing conclusions on clinical evidence is one that I stand behind, I feel it is important for me as Health Secretary to have an extremely high bar for a decision of this magnitude.

18:22

Jonathan Hinder MP (Pendle and Clitheroe, Labour)

- -

Jonathan Hinder thank. >> Jonathan Hinder thank. >> You, Madam Deputy Speaker. The Secretary of State has repeatedly told us that he feels uncomfortable told us that he feels uncomfortable and uneasy. If I'm being totally honest, I don't think he believes honest, I don't think he believes this is right at all. I think in his heart he knows this is wrong. Of course it is wrong. Stopping an 11 year old, a primary school child, from going through the natural process that we all must go through to become adults by injecting them with drugs.

It is wrong. Look at that screen. Puberty suppression. Think about those words. Suppression of puberty. You don't need a medical degree or a science

**** Possible New Speaker ****

degree to know that it is wrong. Yeah. This is a moral question, and

**** Possible New Speaker ****

This is a moral question, and I'm afraid the Secretary of State is on the wrong side of it as it is on the wrong side of it as it stands. He says, let them be. If stands. He says, let them be. If only they had let Keira Bell be, who had these treatments much older than these children are going to be than these children are going to be given it and regrets it all. And now campaigns to stop this. There

**** Possible New Speaker ****

is huge public opposition to this. I assume.

**** Possible New Speaker ****

I assume. The hon. Gentleman is getting to a question. There is huge public opposition

**** Possible New Speaker ****

There is huge public opposition to this. There's huge opposition to this amongst people who vote Labour,

**** Possible New Speaker ****

including so many of my constituents. So I implore. The hon. Gentleman's question is

**** Possible New Speaker ****

The hon. Gentleman's question is far too long. Secretary of State.

18:23

Rt Hon James Murray MP, Secretary of State for Health and Social Care (Ealing North, Labour )

- -

I would say to my hon. Friend who, despite our different conclusion on this matter, I conclusion on this matter, I respect that part of taking decisions as Health Secretary involves sometimes approaching issues where, on a personal level one might feel uncomfortable, but nonetheless being guided by the right principles to take decisions for other groups of people in this country and for the country as a whole. And I'm not in any way disputing how difficult a matter this is, that it is one where I, as Health Secretary and predecessors before me, have had to carefully consider how we make sure that the clinical basis for any future decisions is robust and one that we can point to as a foundation of where this matter settles the situation.

Before Doctor Cass did her review the situation, the Tavistock Clinic that the hon. Gentleman opposite recognised was totally unacceptable and we must never go back to a situation where it is out of control in the way it was then, but in working out how to move forward, I believe that as uncomfortable as it may make myself and others feel on an individual basis, focusing on the principle of following clinical evidence and demanding the highest possible safeguards for children involved, the highest possible protections for them set objective criteria for them to be withdrawn or for action to be taken.

If the risk of harm increases, that is the balanced correct way to proceed.

18:25

Jerome Mayhew MP (Broadland and Fakenham, Conservative)

- -

Jerome Mayhew thank you. State has listed, we have got to be clear what this trial actually does. It's proposing to give puberty It's proposing to give puberty blockers to children as young as 11. That may well make them sterile for life or to treat something which the Secretary of State also says is likely to get better by itself. Now, I accept this trial may well create clinical evidence, but at what price? How can this damage to children ever be justified?

18:26

Rt Hon James Murray MP, Secretary of State for Health and Social Care (Ealing North, Labour )

- -

True state. >> True state. >> Well, Madam Speaker, although the hon. Gentleman comes to a different conclusion than than I different conclusion than than I have, and the government has, there is one part of his argument that I is one part of his argument that I think is, is the right balance or asks the right question, as it were, which is that what harm do we need to protect against whilst getting clinical evidence? And for me, if we are to be led by clinical evidence, it is important to have that evidence in a way that we can rely on, but particularly because this involves children and young people, it is incumbent on to make sure that the level of protection against the risk of harm is exceptionally high, and that is why the strengthening of the protocol announced by the MHRA at the end of last week provides that higher level of assurance, which I have sought to interrogate and to make sure is there in as robust a way as possible.

And that gives us the confidence that those safeguards are in place as the trial proceeds. Gregory Campbell.

18:27

Mr Gregory Campbell MP (East Londonderry, Democratic Unionist Party)

- -

Mr. speaker, I agree with the Secretary of State that we come to this subject matter with care and compassion, given the age profile of the children that would be of the children that would be affected. I majored on the small number of people that will take part in the trial. In fact, he said, we are talking about a very small subset of a very small pool. If that amounts to a couple of hundred, which he said, I think it's unlikely that there would be a universality of outcome, either positive or negative.

There's obviously in that size of a pool going to be mixed use. If there's a small number of people that he believes would benefit, but a much larger number that don't, what then.

18:27

Rt Hon James Murray MP, Secretary of State for Health and Social Care (Ealing North, Labour )

- -

The Secretary of State? >> Perhaps if I can explain in response to the hon. Gentleman's question that the the number of question that the the number of expected participants in the trial 226 is not a firm target. It doesn't need to be exactly that number, but that is the number at which statistically significant conclusions can be drawn. The 226 will fall into two camps one who will access the. The the treatment immediately, the other who will access it after one year.

And that is a way of having the clinical evidence to draw conclusions on which we can base a future decision. So the number has been chosen so that the evidence can be relied on in the future to take decisions about whether and if and if so, how to continue the use of these treatments.

18:28

Joe Robertson MP (Isle of Wight East, Conservative)

- -

Joe Robertson thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. A parent cannot consent to their child engaging in sexual activity, and soon they won't be able to consent to their child having a social media account. So why does the Secretary of State So why does the Secretary of State think think that a parent should consent to drugs being administered to their child, to suppress their puberty and alter their sexual development? Yeah.

18:29

Rt Hon James Murray MP, Secretary of State for Health and Social Care (Ealing North, Labour )

- -

Health Secretary Madam Deputy Speaker Madam Deputy Speaker. We're Speaker Madam Deputy Speaker. We're following clinical advice. We are making sure that there is a triple making sure that there is a triple lock on the consent for children and young people to be involved in and young people to be involved in this trial, involving the consent or assent of the young person themselves, the consent of parents or guardians, the NHS care team, the national multidisciplinary team that I mentioned earlier.

That is how this trial ensures that there is a high bar for being involved in this trial, and that all aspects of a young person's life are considered before they are considered, before they are approved to go on this trial.

18:30

Vikki Slade MP (Mid Dorset and North Poole, Liberal Democrat)

- -

Vikki Slade Mr. Speaker, I thank the Secretary of State for the the Secretary of State for the manner of his responses. Four years, 3.5 years. Four years, six and a half years. Four years, three and a half years. Four years, three and a half years. Four and a half years. Five and a half years. Three years. Nine months. These are the waits faced by young people in Dorset, supported by Space Youth Group. Between their referral to the Gender Identity service and their very first appointment.

None of them will qualify for this trial and many will have gone into adulthood still waiting, despite commitments for more treatment and clinics. So while I support the criteria for the trial, as detailed in the statement, there is an inadequate, inadequate capacity in the system, which is leading to even more distress for these children and their families. So can the Secretary of State update us on this, as most teenagers will be excluded from the trial, and therefore they need to hear how they are going to be supported.

18:30

Rt Hon James Murray MP, Secretary of State for Health and Social Care (Ealing North, Labour )

- -

Very good question. Secretary. Stafford. Stafford. >> Madam Deputy Speaker. I, I think there is a fundamental difference there is a fundamental difference of approach between me and the hon. Lady, because the trial is not. In order to make sure that young people on the waiting list can get access to treatment. That's not the reason for a trial. The trial is to find an evidence base on which to make future decisions about whether young people should be offered treatment, and if so, in what way.

So talking about waiting lists and the trial, I think combine two things that really, in my view of the world, do not have a relationship in this in this context.

18:31

Rt Hon Suella Braverman KC MP (Fareham and Waterlooville, Reform UK)

- -

Suella Braverman Mr Deputy >> Suella Braverman Mr Deputy Speaker. No child is born in the wrong body and the scandal of wrong body and the scandal of thousands of children being put through irreversible medical intervention like puberty blockers causing infertility amongst other harms, has gone on for over a decade and will go down as one of the worst examples of state failure in our history. Officials advise. Ministers decide. Why doesn't the Secretary of State use the considerable executive power vested in him personally to overrule his official advice? Pause this puberty first.

18:32

Rt Hon James Murray MP, Secretary of State for Health and Social Care (Ealing North, Labour )

- -

Hey. already has been paused since earlier this year. Whilst the MHRA worked to strengthen the safeguards, worked to strengthen the safeguards, the stronger safeguards are now in place, which gives greater protection to young people who are involved in this trial. And as I mentioned in my remarks earlier, one of my responsibilities as Health Secretary is to interrogate the detail to ensure that those safeguards are adequate, and I take that responsibility particularly seriously when it involves children and young people, and that is to make sure that we have the highest possible safeguards from harm of anyone involved in this trial.

18:32

Jim Allister KC MP (North Antrim, Traditional Unionist Voice)

- -

And the final question on this statement, Jim Allister. >> The Health Secretary told us that his bottom line was to protect children. But he also conceded that puberty blockers can affect adversely bone density and brain development. So why is he taking the risk? Or 11 year olds are not guinea pigs. Their children are entitled to grow up without state state sponsored harm? Yeah, yeah, surely that should be the starting point. Yeah.

18:33

Rt Hon James Murray MP, Secretary of State for Health and Social Care (Ealing North, Labour )

- -

Chris, that's. for having this trial is to establish whether there are, in fact, benefits to this treatment fact, benefits to this treatment for some children and young people, but also what the risks of harm are but also what the risks of harm are and the basis on which I believe, on balance, it's right to proceed with this clinical trial, to get that clinical evidence is on the basis of having the highest possible protections from greater risk to harm of children and young people involved in this trial.

18:34

Luke Pollard MP, The Minister of State, Ministry of Defence (Plymouth Sutton and Devonport, Labour )

- -

And that concludes the statement. Point of order, Luke Pollard. >> Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I'd like to make a point of order in relation to my answer. The urgent question on the 15th of June urgent question on the 15th of June in this House. In my answer, I said the Defence Secretary was currently with His Majesty the King, as this was my understanding from the was my understanding from the Defence Secretary. Although the Defence Secretary was indeed summoned by His Majesty on the Monday 15th of June, he arrived back in London from Windsor earlier that day.

Prior to the UQ in the house. I was unaware of this fact when I spoke in the chamber on Monday and believed him to be with the King, and therefore unable to take the question himself. However, at the time of my answering the urgent question of the House, he was no longer with His Majesty. I point.

18:34

Judith Cummins MP (Bradford South, Labour)

- -

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his point of order. He is now corrected the record and put his corrected the record and put his remarks on the record. We now move to the presentation of bills. I'll to the presentation of bills. I'll give the Frontbenches a few moments to to swap over. As the House can see, we have many bills to be presented today, and in order to save time and to get on with today's main business. For members presenting more than one consecutive bill, I will accept private notice of the dates of Second Reading for those bills.

These dates will be recorded and published accordingly in Hansard and in the votes and proceedings the members present in individual bills. They will name the date for Second Reading as usual. Presentation of Bill, sir Presentation of Bill, sir Christopher Chope. Mobile Homes Christopher Chope. Mobile Homes Bill Second Reading. What day.

18:35

Presentation of bills

18:46

Legislation: Armed Forces Bill: Remaining stages

clause one.

18:46

Rt Hon Jeremy Corbyn MP (Islington North, Your Party)

- -

I so move. Madam Deputy Speaker, the amendment that I put forward is concerning the presence of, or the concerning the presence of, or the rights of foreign troops to British troops to be engaged in foreign wars. And what this has brought this amendment about has been the reports that British soldiers or British nationals have been involved with the Israeli Defence Force in their activities in Gaza and in other places. And so what my amendments have put forward in this are that we should amend the Visiting Forces Act of 1952 in order to give the Secretary of State power, where there is clear evidence of this happening, that we can undertake to prevent that happening in the future and undertake some form of legal action against those individuals.

To me, it seems something that's very obvious and very important that if we, as a general principle, say that British nationals should not be allowed to fight for a foreign force or engage in a war in another country under a different command, then we should do something about it legally, and hence the amendments that I put forward, which are actually quite widely supported and actually very carefully drafted as well. And I hope that the Minister, in his reply, will understand why I'm putting these forward and the importance of it.

I never thought in my lifetime I'd be able to watch genocide taking place in lifetime on television, as is happening in Gaza, and where cases have been taken. As the amendments clearly point out to the International Court of Justice or to the International Criminal Court, that would be enough to trigger action by the Secretary of State in this country, and that is the reason that there have been put forward, and I hope that there will be taken seriously, and I hope that they will be supported by the House.

**** Possible New Speaker ****

FAQ. The Minister, speaking at the end.

**** Possible New Speaker ****

Visiting Forces, ICC arrest warrants and war crimes. The question is that new clause one be question is that new clause one be read a second time. I call Al Carns.

**** Possible New Speaker ****

read a second time. I call Al Carns. Read it a second time, please.

**** Possible New Speaker ****

If you wish to make a speech. Mr. Khan's.

18:48

Al Carns MP (Birmingham Selly Oak, Labour)

- -

OK. In line with the with the bill. What I would like to say is that it really highlights four key themes. One is it creates the Defence Housing Service, which is a fantastic move forward and will fantastic move forward and will change for a generation. How our individuals are looked after with the service family accommodation. The second. It will make major improvements to our service justice system, which I think is a fantastic move forward. Thirdly, and most importantly, it will look at how we renew our reservists, importantly, looking at how we extend our extension of duty within our strategic reserves, increasing

**** Possible New Speaker ****

our strategic reserves from. I'll make I'll make. The point of the reservists, and

**** Possible New Speaker ****

The point of the reservists, and I'm sure the. The hon. Member will be aware in Northern Ireland when it comes to. To those over 60. it comes to. To those over 60. Increase their recall to 65, but lowers the threshold for mobilisation in Northern Ireland. The problem in Northern Ireland are. Reservists in Northern Ireland are overwhelmingly employed in civilian jobs within our small and medium jobs within our small and medium sized enterprise sector. That creates real problems in itself. Does the hon.

Gentleman, or is he able to put forward a solution that perhaps would enable our small and medium businesses to be able to employ the reservists and then let them go and do their duty at the same time?

**** Possible New Speaker ****

So I think as we progress the bill forward collectively, I think there are some areas of where we could look at better support to employers, but it's worth being really, really clear on the amendment as a whole that looks to amendment as a whole that looks to extend service from anything from four to 6 to 16 years. Return of service for ex-military all the way out to when they're 65, and standardising that across officers. standardising that across officers. Other ranks, the Navy, the Army and the Air Force, and by doing so will increase our strategic reserve pool that it should we get caught in a crisis in any way, shape or form, they can be harnessed to help the nation out.

And I think there is a further discussion at a later stage of how we include civilians in that potentially as well. I think, Madam Deputy Speaker, as we move forward, this bill puts in a whole range of very important legislation to improve both the standard of living for the armed forces, whether that be housing through to reserves, through to improvements at the service justice system, but importantly, keeps us safe both

**** Possible New Speaker ****

home and abroad. I call the opposition Minister Mark Francois. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

**** Possible New Speaker ****

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. It's a privilege to follow the It's a privilege to follow the Member for Birmingham Selly Oak, who I may refer to again in a few who I may refer to again in a few minutes, but I think it's important to place on the record the respect I think he has engendered from I think he has engendered from across this House, from resigning on an important issue of principle relating to the defence of the realm, which is, after all, the

18:51

Rt Hon Mark Francois MP (Rayleigh and Wickford, Conservative)

- -

19:17

Alex Baker MP (Aldershot, Labour)

- -

deliver their manifesto pledge? >> I thank the hon. Gentleman for his and gallant gentleman for his intervention, because ultimately a manifesto is delivered over the period of a, of a, of a government serving. And you don't get you don't deliver everything at once. It takes time to deliver these things over the course of a Parliament. And I want to give this government. You know, these things look hard because they are hard. And we've got to we've got to. There are many things under the previous government which the.

The previous government made look hard when it came to defence. And I want to give this government the chance to actually deliver through this Parliament on the things that we are committed to. So I really welcome the extension of the Armed Forces covenant duty in the bill itself. The covenant is obviously one of the most important promises we make to a nation. And it says it says that no member of our armed forces community should face disadvantage because of their service.

I have worked closely with outstanding organisations including the Royal British Legion, Ssafa and our Service Family Federations. Their message when it comes to this bill is clear accountability matters. Families need to know where to go when support falls short. Public bodies need to understand their responsibilities. Governments need to be able to demonstrate that the covenant is being applied consistently and effectively. We can't always just go to judicial review being the only realistic review route available when the covenant is not being properly applied.

We need I will.

**** Possible New Speaker ****

I think the member is making a very, very important point. very, very important point. Judicial review isn't an answer for many people who are damaged, who are suffering from post-traumatic are suffering from post-traumatic stress disorder, etc. I mean, they don't have the capacity to do that. And really, that's why a authority

**** Possible New Speaker ****

And really, that's why a authority should be held accountable for the actions that they take. Well. Member for his intervention, and

**** Possible New Speaker ****

Member for his intervention, and that is precisely what I'm asking the government to do to look, the judicial review cannot be the only option here. We've got to have other options available to make sure when the covenant is not being delivered, that it is, then it is. We can hold those bodies to account, and we need clearer guidance for how services can put the covenant into practice. Earlier this year, I presented my recommendations to the Minister for early years in the Department for Education, setting out how the new show Best Start Family Hubs can properly support military families.

The first recommendation we made was simple services should ask everyone at the first point of contact, are you from a military family? Are you from our armed forces community? Because if public services do not know whether someone serves or has served or is part of a military family, how can we connect them to the support that they need? Service life often means deployments, frequent moves dealing with different local authorities and providers. With a clearer record of our forces community, we can ensure support follows people as they relocate, rather than forcing them to start again each time.

Because ultimately, this is not about processes. This is about people at the Commonwealth Hub. On Saturday, I met a female Royal Navy veteran. She spoke honestly about the challenges she has faced after leaving service, struggling to secure housing, struggling to find work, struggling to access the support she needed. And then she said something that that has stayed with me. The covenant is supposed to mean something, but it means nothing. That must change. The covenant must mean something. When a veteran needs a home or a military family are looking to settle down.

Those who sacrifice so much in service to our country ask one thing of us that we stand by them in return. That is the promise we must keep and the standard we must set ourselves. That is why I support this bill. Liberal Democrat spokesperson.

19:21

Calum Miller MP (Bicester and Woodstock, Liberal Democrat)

- -

19:40

Luke Akehurst MP (North Durham, Labour)

- -

dignity and respect. And that means understanding military services, not simply another profession, but not simply another profession, but as a vocation which places demands upon individuals and their families that most of our fellow citizens that most of our fellow citizens will never be asked to bear. And so I'll begin with new clause four.

19:41

Dr Neil Shastri-Hurst MP (Solihull West and Shirley, Conservative)

- -

I've long believed, Madam Deputy Speaker, that when an individual commits to service in the armed forces, the nation enters into a forces, the nation enters into a contract with them, and that contract carries practical consequences. We ask our service personnel to accept postings away from home, to move their families at short notice, to spend long periods separated from loved ones and, in some cases, to place themselves in danger on our behalf. So when we're speaking of supporting the armed forces, we can't confine our attention solely to those in uniform.

We must also consider their spouses and their children who support them. New clause four, which has been brought by my honourable and gallant friend from Huntingdon, addresses a concern that many members across this House have heard repeatedly from serving personnel and veterans alike, that the financial burden imposed upon families seeking indefinite leave to remain after years of loyal service to this country is too much. And there is, I think, a very straightforward question before us. If an individual has given years of service to our nation, why should their family then face significant financial barriers simply to secure their future? Here they have worn our uniform, accepted unlimited liability in defence of our national interests, and contributed directly to our security.

In those circumstances, it cannot be right that, having honoured their commitment to our country, we appear reluctant to honour our commitment to them. The Armed Forces Covenant as my right hon. and gallant Friend from Rayleigh and Wickford has mentioned, rests upon the principle that those who serve should suffer no disadvantage as a result of that service. It is therefore difficult to reconcile that principle with a situation in which a family that has supported a service member throughout years of deployments and postings is then confronted with substantial costs in order to remain together in the country for which that service was given.

New clause four is not a radical proposition. It is a relatively modest measure. It simply recognises commitment and it rewards service. And, crucially, Madam Deputy Speaker, it sends a clear signal that Parliament values not only those that wear the uniform, but also those families who stand behind it. I'll now turn to new clauses nine and 11. Over the past two decades or so, there has been a considerable concern about the extent to which human rights litigation has affected military operations overseas.

Parliament itself has recognised those concerns in previous legislation relating to overseas operations. The issue before us today, therefore, is not a novel one. It is part of a continuing debate about how best to reconcile operational effectiveness, accountability and fairness, and the argument for new clauses nine and 11 is, at its heart a simple one. A soldier deployed on operations is not situated in the same circumstances as a civilian living in peacetime. The realities of combat are fundamentally different.

Those of us who have had the privilege to spend time with serving personnel quickly come to appreciate that military operations are conducted in conditions of danger, ambiguity and enormous pressure. Decisions are often made in moments, not months. Commanders and soldiers do not enjoy the luxury of hindsight. Available to lawyers examining events years later from the cold comfort of a courtroom. And that doesn't mean abandoning accountability. Our British forces are respected around the world precisely because they operate to the highest standards.

But neither should we create a system in which those who have risked their lives for this nation face the prospect of endless reinvestigation, long after the guns have fallen silent, the law should recognise those realities. Operational personnel should not be exposed to legal obligations that risk second guessing battlefield decisions years after the event. That has simply contributed to uncertainty, excessive litigation and a culture in which service men and women may feel that they face legal jeopardy for carrying out duties entrusted to them by Parliament and the government.

Those serving today must know that Parliament understands the realities they face and will not allow them to become casualties of legal uncertainty after returning home. It is not unreasonable for Parliament to ask whether the legal framework governing military operations properly reflects the realities of military service, and it's for that reason I support new clauses 911 because they seek to restore confidence among those that serve that Parliament understands the exceptional circumstances in which they operate and is prepared to legislate accordingly. The Armed Forces asks much of those who serve.

They ask much of their families. New clause four recognises the sacrifices made by those military families, and new clauses. Nine and 11 seeks to address a long standing concern about the legal environment in which our armed forces operate. These amendments proceed from the same objective that those who serve this country deserve neither special favours nor special exemptions. But they do deserve a Parliament prepared to recognise the unique burdens that service imposes. And as a confident nation that I know that we are, that does not take.

We should not be taking the armed forces for granted. We should be honouring the service of those who have served. And above all, we must demonstrate that this place, through its actions, not merely in its words, that we stand ready to defend Britain, and sorry that those who stand ready to defend Britain will always find Britain standing behind them. And that is a principle embodied by these amendments. And it's why I

**** Possible New Speaker ****

will be supporting them tonight. Yeah. Alan Strickland thank you. Madam.

**** Possible New Speaker ****

Madam. Deputy Speaker. It's very apt that we meet during Armed Forces Week to discuss this really important bill. I strongly welcome important bill. I strongly welcome this bill and commend Ministers, past and present for using its passage through Parliament, not just to renew service law, which is hon. Members have said parliaments required to do every five years, but to genuinely drive wider improvements for the benefit of service personnel and for the improvement of our national defence and Ministers are to be commended for doing that.

In my speech, Madam Deputy Speaker, I'd like to focus on some of the housing elements of the bill around which there remains some debate. I know there's a number of amendments, and before I come to the amendments, there are two reasons, I think, why the new approach to defence accommodation is incredibly important. The first, of course, is a point of principle. There can be no greater calling in the public service of our nation than donning uniform to defend our fellow citizens and those from our community.

And I'm proud to be a County Durham MP. County Durham has one of the highest proportions of serving and veteran armed forces personnel in the country, those from our communities who are prepared to make the ultimate sacrifice to defend our way of life deserve the very best support. And of course, that includes housing. Providing good quality service homes should be non-negotiable, and I think it should be a source of some shame, Madam Deputy Speaker, that under the last government, the housing element, the duty we owe our personnel fell so far short of what they rightly deserve.

The second, of course, is a pragmatic point. The the historic failures in service housing have caused real operational problems for those tasked with defending our nation. The state of some military housing hampers the day to day ability of our armed forces to compete in a very competitive labour market. And of course, this matters. A Defence committee report in 2023 highlighted housing and other issues were making it difficult for our armed forces to recruit and retain talented people. And of course, because of the fantastic investment our armed forces make in defence, which I've seen myself on bases, whether that's in our fighting troops or engineers or others, and we thankfully make our armed forces personnel highly competitive in the modern labour market.

And there's a there's a rightly a draw on them. So this is an issue that absolutely must be addressed if we're serious improving our defence. And I commend Ministers for their determination to address this. So, Madam Deputy Speaker, to amendments amendment New clause 12 calls for report on the potential for Forces Housing Association. In the name of the Member for Tunbridge Wells. So I respect entirely the intent of what's being proposed here, Madam Deputy Speaker, but I think and we might be in danger of putting form before function.

I say this as somebody who worked before my election for 14 years in the

19:49

Alan Strickland MP (Newton Aycliffe and Spennymoor, Labour)

- -

housing sector for seven years as a housing Cabinet member, building council housing, overseeing an council housing, overseeing an arm's length management organisation, working with major developers to secure billions of developers to secure billions of pounds of investment in Tottenham after the riots there, and then seven years as director of a large housing association, again housing association, again delivering complex projects. I've seen housing from many angles and seen housing from many angles and with many providers, and I think what you see if you worked in that sector is what matters fundamentally is the quality of leadership, the quality of culture, not necessarily the detail of the structures.

So I think the emphasis should be on strong, clear and transparent leadership. That's what you find at the heart of the best social housing and wider public housing providers. Now, that might sound like an obvious point, but in the rapidly changing world of housing, with large numbers of residents, stakeholders, contractors. It does take a particular type of leader to deliver. It's hard. So I was pleased to hear the commitments that the Select Committee oral evidence session on this bill. Two Defence Housing Service having an independent chair, non-executive directors and a family representative.

That I think is exactly right as a mix of strong, robust leadership in accordance with good practice and the wider housing sector. And I hope Ministers will make the most of this structure by recognising there's a there's a wealth of leadership experience and skill in council housing departments, in big housing associations and other social housing providers, people who've dedicated their career to this, who could really lend expertise to defence housing services. And I hope that Ministers will proactively tap in to that pool of talent across the country to make sure that the new organisation works at every level.

Amendment eight talks about introducing an objective to improve the satisfaction of service. I think the point I'd make here, Madam Deputy Speaker, is I would expect, having worked in the housing sector for 14 years, that the satisfaction of residents of customers would absolutely be a core part of everything. Defence housing services would do. And one of the main issues for discussion by the board and the leadership team. So whether or not Parliament sets these as objectives, I think slightly misses the point.

The point is this should absolutely be the bread and butter of that organisation day to day. And I'm sure something Ministers will talk to the board and the leadership of that organisation about. On the point of organisational culture, having worked in the sector, I've seen Madam Deputy Speaker Complex housing organisations where there's cultures of delivery, there's real care for residents, there's a determination to fix things which can often be complex. As a culture of getting things done. I've equally seen housing providers where the opposite is true.

Things aren't done. Things take a long time. Residents are seen as a nuisance. Complaints are seen as a pain rather than as an object for learning. So again, I think the key lesson here for Ministers is to work with the new organisations absolutely drive that culture, which I know Ministers, having served in uniform, a very akin to driving strong culture through organisations. That I think is the key issue, because what I saw in my previous career, Madam Deputy Speaker, is that as the social housing sector became more complex, with organisations increasingly delivering maintenance, long term asset management, investment programmes, new home building, construction issues, homes for rent, homes for sale, the complex mix of things we will be tasking defence housing services to do.

Some organisations were just overwhelmed by that. You need strong leadership, you need strong culture. There's clear evidence with those. You can make this work. The other thing I think we need to defend against in defence housing services, which I know Ministers are cognisant of, is in council housing departments and charitable housing associations. That pressure to deliver and deliver quickly has often led to convoluted chains of accountability, involving layers and layers and layers of contractors and subcontractors. And the point the hon.

Lady from Aldershot made around accountability is an important one here. We've seen in many of the reports following the terrible Grenfell tragedy that was layers and layers and layers of organisations where there was no clear accountability that caused some of the appalling problems there. So then I think should be the emphasis here in defence housing services and Ministers will find really good advice and the board will find really good advice in the many reports from the Housing Ombudsman, the regulator of social housing is in-depth assessments.

There's lots of evidence from governments about how to make complex housing organisations work well, and we know that these were many of the issues that came with the privatised model of service housing that was introduced by the previous conservative government, and why I strongly support the changes being made on Armed Forces parliamentary scheme visits. We've met lots of personnel who shared stories of outsourced housing contractors being difficult to contact and responsive, acting slowly and equally, senior commanders and base commanders keen to ensure the best accommodation for their people, who struggle to hold private providers to account and have lacked direct lines of accountability.

So I know Ministers will be tackling these issues, and I think that might be a better way of addressing it than some of the amendments that have been put down. Finally, on amendment 11, bringing housing, defence, housing services Budget into the Defence investment plan. Look, I think the key point here, I think, is not a question of technically which Budget money sits in, but will housing, the housing commitment be properly resourced, which I know Ministers are committing to doing? The 9 billion commitment from government, I think is really powerful.

One works already started in terms of repairing military homes. And I think that the debate about whether that 9 billion, whether that funding sits in the dip or elsewhere, again, slightly misses the point. The point is, is this government committed to investing? Is this government committed to providing resource to get this fixed and sorted? The answer is yes. I'm sure that will change and develop as time goes on, as the organisation is fully set up and the board takes real control of that.

But that, I think is our key priority here. So in summary, Madam Deputy Speaker strong leadership and accountable can do culture that gets stuff done and proper resourcing, I think are the key ingredients to delivering for our servicemen and women in uniform. And I'm confident ministerial colleagues will drive this forward. And I know, Madam Deputy Speaker, there are a number of members across the House from the 24 intake who've come to this House with significant experience in working for complex housing organisations who are very happy to support Ministers in the road ahead.

In conclusion, while I won't go into these elements in detail in concluding my remarks, can I just say how important the parts of the bill that deal with the covenant are expanding the Armed Forces covenant duty to central government departments, I think is absolutely the right thing to do. If we're to stay true to the duty we are to our service people. And it's entirely right. That applies to all layers of government. On Friday, I met a constituents at my surgery, a veteran who was raising concerns about his access to services from the NHS and other parts of the local public sector, struggling to get some of the appropriate support that he might need.

So we know from our casework that support for our veterans isn't always consistent. It must improve across the public sector, and that's why this bill enshrining the covenant into law is such an important step. Madam Deputy Speaker, those serving our nation in uniform, those who have served and their families deserve the very best support. And that's why I'm proud to support this bill.

19:57

Danny Kruger MP (East Wiltshire, Reform UK)

- -

20:11

Michelle Scrogham MP (Barrow and Furness, Labour)

- -

fragmented and tied to short term pressures rather than the long term strategy. That approach does not save money. It stores up costs. It leads to delays, inconsistencies and ultimately weaker capability. Nowhere is that clearer than in my constituency of Barrow in Furness, the heart of our sovereign the heart of our sovereign submarine building capability. When investment falters, as it did under the coalition government of the parties, opposite skills are lost. Highly trained engineers move on, the training pipeline is cut and the supply chain contracts when the nation inevitably needs to accelerate production again, we're forced to rebuild that capacity at far greater expense.

That's why the dip, the first line by line, long term plan of its kind in a decade is so important it's vital that we get it right, but also that it's properly funded to meet the scale of the threats that we face and the demands placed on our armed forces, the consequences of not doing so extend beyond cost. Over time, our armed forces risk becoming hollowed out, as referenced by former defence secretaries from opposition benches.

**** Possible New Speaker ****

Absolutely right to mention about defence being underfunded. I've called it out in the last government. Call it out in this government. The previous defence Secretary talked about 30 years of Secretary talked about 30 years of defence underfunding. If the dip. We talk about line by line, getting this right, if it doesn't come out and fund correctly, and if it's anywhere near the numbers that have been quoted by the previous defence secretary, it's probably her secretary, it's probably her constituency that's going to feel it more more than anyone with the shipbuilding.

And as she's

**** Possible New Speaker ****

mentioned, the submarine capability. I thank him for his intervention. And as he rightly says, nobody felt And as he rightly says, nobody felt it more than they did in my constituency in Barrow in Furness. I absolutely agree we have to invest properly in the dip, but also we've got to make sure that the priorities in the dip are right. The the warfare has changed so The the warfare has changed so dramatically in recent years that we can't go to the capabilities that we've always just looked at.

We can't continue to fund the way it's been fund funded for the last couple of decades. So it is about putting the right amount of money in, but it's about actually putting it into the right places. So yeah, over time, our armed forces have become hollowed out. Our adversaries will be emboldened, sorry, emboldened, and we leave ourselves at a greater risk of the very conflicts that we all want to avoid. In addition, defence is not just a cost, it's an engine for growth in communities like mine.

Investment in defence supports skilled jobs, apprenticeships and innovation across the country. Madam Deputy Speaker, this Armed Forces Bill demonstrates the government's commitment to strengthening our services through improving support for personnel and their families, updating service justice arrangements and ensuring that our armed forces are better equipped to meet the challenges of the modern world. These are important steps forward, and I am confident that this bill delivers significantly and in the improvements that are needed, and I. I would oppose new clause ten on this.

Thank you.

**** Possible New Speaker ****

Ben Obese-Jecty speaker. I wish to speak today to new clause four tabled in my name, and clause four tabled in my name, and I would like to start by thanking all those from across the House who signed my amendment. 10% of MPs in this House supported this amendment. Whilst that is not exceptional, it is certainly unusual and I wish to put on record my thanks to all put on record my thanks to all those who put their name to it, particularly those on the benches opposite.

The issue of waiving fees for indefinite leave to remain for

20:15

Ben Obese-Jecty MP (Huntingdon, Conservative)

- -

for indefinite leave to remain for the spouses and children of our service personnel has become something of a crusade, a worthy cause that it is a rarity in this place. It is one that we fundamentally agree on, but with the best will in the world, it will never be a flagship policy. Hence, three weeks ago, during the Committee of the whole House, the government, in their infinite wisdom, decided to vote

**** Possible New Speaker ****

Down my amendment and put the issue back into the holding pattern. I've spoken to a lot of MPs in the I've spoken to a lot of MPs in the last week asking for support and whether they did or they didn't. I'm yet to find an MP who fundamentally disagreed with the fundamentally disagreed with the aim of this amendment, and I include within that group the Minister, on the Ministers, on the benches opposite. It is only reform benches opposite. It is only reform who believe that the immediate families of our non UK personnel should not be granted a waiver when it comes to regularising their it comes to regularising their immigration status, and it says little for their so-called patriotic support for our armed Forces.

They are unwilling to support service personnel or the Royal British Legion. So here we are again. But what's changed since last time? Two weeks ago, the Home Office questions I asked the Minister for Migration and Citizenship what progress he'd made in progressing the waving of visa fees for indefinite leave to remain for the dependents of current or former service personnel. He said I am working with colleagues in the Ministry of Defence at the moment to deliver that important manifesto commitment. How long does it take? He's been in post nearly a year.

It took half a day to tweak this piece of legislation working with the public bill office. So what's the hold up? Madam Deputy Speaker, if you've got time to make AI slop videos of you recounting the history of your constituency, tap into history, then you've got time to improve the lives of the people you served alongside when you were in the Army. You should save the videos for after the reshuffle. He'll have more free time then in 2022. We amended the Immigration and Nationality Fees Regulations 2018, waiving fees for non-UK service personnel.

Having listened to the feedback from the government during the Committee of the whole House. I've now changed New clause four to reflect a further change to that legislation, adding a single line of text C in a case where the application is made by a person who is a spouse or child, of a member of previously serving, member of the armed forces who have served for four or more years. That's it. That's all I'm asking the government to do. We will also scrap visa fees for non-UK veterans who have served for four or more years and their dependants.

That's on page 119 of the 2024 Labour Party manifesto. So what part of new clause four does the government now disagree with? And let's not pretend, by the way, that the government doesn't know how they pay for it, because that's on page 127 of the manifesto, listed under additional public services spending using the last year of the 2020 829 OBR forecast, where it clearly states we will begin to put these policies in place from day one of a Labour government, except we're now fast closing in on two years.

Maybe they won't. Maybe they meant day one of a new government. I've asked the government on no fewer than eight occasions when this manifesto pledge will be delivered, and what progress towards delivering it has been achieved. An answer came there none. Last week I asked the Minister for migration citizenship if he could estimate the number of spouses and children who have been impacted by the failure to deliver this policy since Labour came to power. He couldn't. He said the relevant data could only be collated and verified for the purpose of answering this question at disproportionate cost.

Sure. This is bearing in mind that both the Home Office and the Ministry of Defence claim to be working on delivering this, but have no idea what impact it's currently having. So safe to assume that no impact assessment has been conducted. Then I asked the Minister for migration citizenship what the planned timetable is for delivering the manifesto pledge that the government is so committed to delivering. The Minister told me that the work is ongoing and the Department will update Parliament in the usual way once cross-government decisions have been finalised.

What cross-government decisions? I'd be grateful if the Minister could outline what decisions are awaiting finalisation in her summing up. I don't believe there is a timetable for delivering this, simply for no more complex reason that when she was the veterans Minister, she told me that there isn't 19th of January. It is not possible at this stage to provide an implementation date, but I put it to the Minister that there is a timeline, a very rigid timeline, which is that there are only two points each year where Immigration Rules can be amended in the statement of changes to Immigration Rules, the next being due this autumn.

So can the Minister assure the House that the Ministry of Defence and the Home Office will implement the pledge changes in the next statement? The trouble is, despite this being the lowest of low hanging, apolitical fruit, this government has a skewed opportunity after opportunity to deliver it. Defence Ministers waxed lyrical about armed forces, pay rises and improving military housing. But on this it's nowhere. We're now on our third Minister for veterans and people in two years. I've raised the issue with each of them.

We have made no progress. And whilst I don't think for one second that any of them opposes it, it will never be a priority. Better yet, despite the fact that the Home Office and Ministry of Defence have allegedly been working on resolving this and remain committed to delivering it, the government's own new earned settlement model will pull the rug out from under their feet. If the government don't introduce a carve out for service personnel and families, then the qualifying period will increase to ten years.

On top of the current fees of £3,229 per person. If the government was truly committed to the Armed Forces Covenant, it wouldn't even have needed to ask the question during the consultation. Now, I welcome my honourable and gallant friend, the new Minister for veterans, to his place. Although he isn't here today, and I know that he's just the man to get this over the line. I also know how much it hurt him to vote against it on the 2nd of June. The problem is he didn't anticipate that one.

It would come back round so quickly, and two, that when it did, he would find himself on the hook as the new Minister for responsible for delivering it. So what should he do? The Minister has been pushing on this himself since 2017, when he was a serving RAF officer. His pedigree in this area is unmatched and I do appreciate he is now in an invidious position. When we last debated this as a backbencher, he made clear that the Home Office was the bottleneck in delivering it.

The Home Office say they're working with the Ministers on the front bench to deliver this. So what's the hold up? The amendment is watertight. All the issues raised by the armed forces Minister on the 2nd of June have been addressed. There's nothing left to oppose. It has more support from more parties, including now those on their own benches, not to mention the slew of tactical abstentions last time round. There is a reshuffle coming by September at the latest. He cannot guarantee that he will be in the same role, with the same level of influence after the change in administration.

There are just three weeks left until summer recess and likely a completely new administration. No progress has been made on this issue to date, and now, with the Home Office and Ministry of Defence on go slow in anticipation of a regime change, he has a choice. Vote this amendment down. Despite its widespread backing in his own affinity to the cause, or tell the whips to let it go, let it go through. On the nod, there is a grotesque irony that Parliament's biggest advocate for making this legislative change, having campaigned for it for a decade, will today be a contributing factor in why service families continue to

**** Possible New Speaker ****

suffer? I will give way. The honourable and gallant

**** Possible New Speaker ****

The honourable and gallant member for giving way. The the the Minister you talk about is not actually in the room. We we we they the APPG, we we we've worked on the APPG, we we we've worked on these issues together on, on these these issues together on, on these issues. And he, he has had seven days in that job to make progress. Seven days. Is it fair to put him under this sort of scrutiny after seven days?

**** Possible New Speaker ****

Yeah. I appreciate what the hon. Member is saying. I'm not putting him under scrutiny here. I'm merely highlighting the invidious position that he finds himself in and the situation as as we find it. I have spoken to the the honourable and gallant member, the Minister, earlier today, so he knows full earlier today, so he knows full well that I'm going to say this, but I very much want to put this front and centre as an issue that front and centre as an issue that needs to be resolved, and I would like to put some heat and light on it to encourage the progress that we are yet to see.

The only reason to oppose this is purely political, as the government chooses to play games with people's lives, rather than support our armed forces community and uphold the Armed Forces Covenant. Earlier this year, the. That same Armed Forces community was surveyed by the Army Families Federation on the Armed Forces pathway to. To settlement in the UK in response to the 2025 restoring Control over the Immigration System White paper. It had 1424 qualifying responses and more comments on reducing the cost of indefinite leave to remain than any other topic.

Some of those responses were as follows. The current level of fees for ILR and the subsequent cost of citizenship places a significant financial burden on armed forces families. Given the service and sacrifices made by armed forces personnel and the vital role their families play in supporting them, these costs are prohibitively high for many. As a result, families who are committed to remaining in the UK long term face unnecessary financial hardship simply to secure their lawful status and future. Another said speaking from experience, it's a struggle to get us and our kids to join our husbands here in the UK.

We have to work two jobs in order to pay for the visa and travelling expenses. We have to bring our three kids over to the UK. Due to the expensive costs, we have to apply for loans to cater for the expenses. With the high living standards and tight financial constraints, we have to save up for our ILR fee once our five years contract is done. It's so hard to save, especially for us. Me and my three kids have to apply for ILR together as our visa expired the same date.

So that's a total of £12,000 we have to fork out to pay the fee. Can the Home Office look into this urgently? Thank you. Another said I've supported my partner's service to the UK while facing many of the same sacrifices required of military families. This includes frequent relocations, prolonged periods of separation, disrupted employment opportunities, and the emotional and practical challenges that come with military life. The Commonwealth families in particular. These sacrifices are made alongside the added uncertainty of immigration status, charging ILR and citizenship fees places unfair financial burden on spouses who have already contributed significantly to the stability and wellbeing of service personnel.

Military spouses play a vital role in enabling service members to serve effectively, yet are required to pay substantial fees simply to remain in the country. Their families served with loyalty and dedication, the last said. The financial burden of applying for ILR and subsequently citizenship is not proportionate to armed forces pay, particularly in the context of the current cost of living crisis. Many serving personnel simply do not earn enough to comfortably meet these fees, even though they have complied fully with all rules and requirements.

It's difficult to understand why those who have shown long term commitment, loyalty and service to the United Kingdom must go through one of the longest and most expensive settlement routes, while others are supported through different schemes that include accommodation, financial assistance and fee exemptions. This creates a strong perception of unfairness among service members, who feel they are being penalised for following the rules. That last one really sticks in my craw. We price our service personnel out of being able to afford to live here as veterans, whilst dishing out ILR to others like confetti, who have done nothing to earn it.

There is perhaps no better example of a genuine two tier system. So before members opposite go into that voting lobby and swipe their pass on autopilot without thinking, I'd ask them to think about why they became MPs, specifically Labour MPs. Because if the answer was to clamp down on immigration so hard, with the bar so high that we don't even let the children of people who've risked their lives in the service of this nation to live here without fleecing them for thousands of pounds, then a slow hand clap for achieving their political dreams.

If, on the other hand, they have the moral courage to do the right thing, then don't go into that lobby. What's the worst that's going to happen? How winnable do we think the Parliamentary Labour Party actually is right now? Just a few hours after the Prime Minister has resigned, I asked members on the benches opposite to have the moral courage to do the right thing, to vote in favour of New Clause four and deliver on the promise that they made to service families when they stood for election.

In a matter of days, they will find themselves jockeying for position in the leadership contest. People are whips. Today may not be whips tomorrow. Nobody is going to lose the whip as the government collapses because they didn't vote against this amendment. There may never be a more perfect set of circumstances in which the rebel, a government with no authority trying to whip Labour MPs to vote against their own manifesto pledge and against the wishes of the Royal British Legion, I dare say there has never been safer, more fertile ground upon which to rebel.

But if they can't vote in favour of it, I beg them not to vote against it. When this was voted on three weeks ago, there were 102 abstentions. The Prime Minister has laid out the timetable for his departure. This administration is in its death throes. How much do those on the benches opposite feel they really owe the outgoing administration? Members opposite should be asking what the right hon. Member for Makerfield would do, because I'm not really asking the current government any more.

What's the point? So today, the start of Armed Forces Week, I would ask the members opposite to consider how they will vote tonight. They want to vote against service families. They want to vote against the Royal British Legion, campaign against doing the right thing to prop up a government that has a lifespan we can measure now in hours. This is how this is now about whether the next government backs this support. New clause four don't vote against it. Ministers should think very carefully about what they want

**** Possible New Speaker ****

their legacy to be. Have the moral courage to do the right thing tonight. Hey.

**** Possible New Speaker ****

Well done. Madam Derek Twigg. Most speakers tonight have

**** Possible New Speaker ****

Most speakers tonight have talked about the duty of care that we owe to those who put themselves we owe to those who put themselves in harm's way. For the people of the United Kingdom. And I think that coming from Northern Ireland. And those of you who represent Northern Ireland know that this is

20:28

Rt Hon Sammy Wilson MP (East Antrim, Democratic Unionist Party)

- -

not just some vague form of words which you express, because over the which you express, because over the period of the troubles we have seen at first hand, it's not abstract. at first hand, it's not abstract. We have seen first hand the sacrifices which those who serve in sacrifices which those who serve in the armed forces have made. Over 300,000 people served in Northern Ireland during Operation Banner, 722 of them gave their lives in Northern Ireland. And I know that from my involvement in the 1970s, as part of the reserve police force and out of army barracks where you had to go out with army patrols, the conditions that we expected people to live in and empty schools, old factories, some of them surrounded by houses, easy available to sniper fire, mortar bombing, and then, of course, going out into narrow streets where they're easily ambushed.

So we do owe a duty to those who made those kind of sacrifices to stop terror. In our own streets of the United Kingdom, let alone those who go overseas. And it does anger me at times when I see how those servicemen are dragged through the courts as a part of a way of rewriting the history of the troubles to make the terrorists look like the victims and the soldiers look like terrorists. And I see the member from Birmingham Selly Oak in this place.

I it's for whatever role he played in holding back the worst provisions of the legacy legislation. I think he deserves credit. And I hope that his departure from his role in the Ministry of Defence does not give the government the opportunity to roll over to the Northern Ireland Office and the Department of Foreign Affairs in Dublin and enact legislation which will punish those servicemen who have served in Northern Ireland. And it's one of the reasons why I support New Clause nine, because we know that what has happened to soldiers in the past and their performance and what they did in Northern Ireland, will be used in future by those who wish to denigrate the work which our soldiers do overseas or in other theatres of warfare where they're serving their country, and we should not leave in place legislation which makes it easy to do that.

And that's why we will support new clause nine. I want to speak specifically to amendment one in the name of the Member for North Antrim, who and we have. My party has given support to that. He would have been here tonight to propose and to speak to this. But he's unwell, but I the point that he has made is very important, and that is that if this legislation is now going to extend to local authorities across England, Scotland and Wales, there is absolutely no reason why local authorities in Northern Ireland should be excluded from it, especially when many of the soldiers who would benefit from it at 11 Northern Ireland, many of them served in the part time and full time Royal Irish Regiment and the UDR.

They're living with the consequences of their service, and yet we find that the local authorities in Northern Ireland are going to be excluded from this legislation. Now, I hope it was a mistake by the government. It was simply a oversight. I trust that it is not a deliberate attempt to try and ensure that they don't put themselves in conflict with those authorities. Local authorities in Northern Ireland are controlled by Sinn FÃ©in. If that was the reason, then it's an absolute disgrace.

If it was an oversight, then I hope that the government will rectify that oversight and ensure that local authorities in Northern Ireland are included in the the Armed Forces Covenant requirements, which will apply to local authorities in the rest of the United Kingdom. There are many unionist local authorities who would want to be able to give and legally give support to those who have served in Northern Ireland. And if there are Sinn FÃ©in local authorities don't wish to do it, then the government should not simply say, well, we.

We will back away from this. Then the same obligation should be on them because they have got soldiers who

**** Possible New Speaker ****

live in their in their areas. I thank. My hon. Friend for giving way. And he's making a very powerful point. The Armed Forces Covenant was a national promise to the to the veterans of this nation. Yet a veterans from Birmingham, Glasgow or anywhere in GB will have better access to the covenant provisions because their local authorities because their local authorities will be benefiting from it. Yet someone living in Upper Bann, someone living in South Antrim Fermanagh won't have those provisions.

Would he agree with me that it does smell very like this is kowtowing to Sinn FÃ©in and their demands and their anti covenant approach. That's been over many years.

**** Possible New Speaker ****

And I don't know who advised. Well, there was a Northern Ireland office because of course the office because of course the Northern Ireland Office is prone to trying to avoid any conflict with trying to avoid any conflict with Sinn Fein when it comes to policies. If it was, then I hope that this will be seriously thought about and will be seriously thought about and that the Minister will look at ways of including local authorities in Northern Ireland in the legislation Northern Ireland in the legislation so that, as the Member for Robert Jenrick has pointed out, that the the Armed Forces Covenant, which is meant to be a national commitment, will apply nationally right across the United Kingdom.

I want to also give support to some of the other new clauses, though I wanted to associate myself from new clause one and two with. Proposed by the Member for Islington North. I think it represents more of his obsession with finding ways of trying to batter Israel, rather than really being concerned about the welfare of of soldiers. And I think that the fact that he's not here to answer challenges to it maybe says a lot as well, because he knows exactly what the motivation is.

New clause three refers to the the duty that would be required from the Secretary of State to collect data on the number of veterans who are homeless, at risk of homelessness, etc. I think it's very sad when I walk down the streets of London towards Victoria there, for example, and sometimes you see people sitting in shop, doorways, etc. and we're speaking to one of them. He was an ex-soldier and he he blamed the situation on himself. But the fact of the matter was that it seems that the Army had no idea what condition he was in.

I met with an ex-soldier in my own constituency advice centre on Friday who is suffering from post-traumatic stress disorder and can't find any support or help his. He had left the Army in 2004. The impact had come on and some years later, and he didn't have his medical records. He had been referred to one body and another body, but was finding no help. And, you know, I think that we do have a duty to monitor what happens to those who leave the armed forces and and sometimes leave with injuries, either mental or physical, and ensure that we do look after them after they have suffered as a result of the service which they experienced.

The. When we consider how easy it is for people to get on a boat and come across the. The the channel, get into the United to bring their families here, are faced with a financial penalty for doing so. And that's one of the reasons why we'll we'll support new clause four, that those fees should be waived. We should not be treating the families of those who served our country in a far lesser way than we treat those who break into our country illegally and are then treated and have money lavished upon them.

The the amendment, referring to a veterans Commissioner dealing with mental health. Given the number of soldiers who who have suffered from mental health problems, I think it is important that they should have an advocate for the. The problems which they. Which they face. And the last issue that I want to want to give support to is the national standards for funding and monitoring the Armed Forces Covenant Duty. It's one thing to have a duty and to put it down as a covenant duty and a promise to soldiers.

But if we're not monitoring how it works and not funding it, then of course it's not going to have the impact that it's meant to have. I believe that the government is right in bringing forward the legislation that was done, and many of the provisions in it are are very welcomed by my party. But there are amendments before the House tonight, which I believe would improve that legislation. We owe it to those who have served us, and I hope that the government will take on board the the reasonable amendments which I

**** Possible New Speaker ****

have spoken about and which we have listed here today. I can. Now come to the. Minister.

**** Possible New Speaker ****

Minister. Lewes. Sarah Jones. Thank you very much, Madam

**** Possible New Speaker ****

Thank you very much, Madam Deputy Speaker. I would first like to take this opportunity to put on the record my huge thanks to the the record my huge thanks to the right hon. Member for Rawmarsh and Conisbrough for his service as Secretary of State for defence. He has been a stalwart champion of our Armed forces, and I'm especially grateful for his support for our service personnel and their

20:39

Louise Sandher-Jones MP, Parliamentary Under-Secretary (Ministry of Defence) (Minister for the Armed Forces) (North East Derbyshire, Labour)

- -

20:59

Division

21:51

Legislation: Armed Forces Bill: Remaining stages

in particular the parliamentary staff, the office of the Parliamentary Counsel, the officials within the Ministry of Defence and especially the Bill Defence and especially the Bill team, who have all worked diligently to deliver it. I would

21:51

Louise Sandher-Jones MP, Parliamentary Under-Secretary (Ministry of Defence) (Minister for the Armed Forces) (North East Derbyshire, Labour)

- -

also like to thank the right hon. Member for Rayleigh and Wickford and to all members on all sides of and to all members on all sides of this House for their constructive engagement through the passage of this bill, and I would particularly this bill, and I would particularly like to place on record my thanks to my predecessor, the hon. Member for Birmingham Selly Oak, for all his hard work and dedication in getting the bill to this stage. The getting the bill to this stage.

The first duty of any government is the defence of the United Kingdom, and it is a duty carried out every day by the extraordinary men and women of our armed Forces, with the support of their families, who together make immense sacrifices to keep our nation safe. Yet too often, those who serve and the families who stand beside them feel undervalued. This government was elected on a promise to change that, to renew the contract with those who serve. And through this Armed Forces Bill, we are delivering on that promise.

This bill not only fulfils our constitutional responsibility to renew the legal basis for the armed forces, it delivers meaningful reform across four key pillars extending the armed forces covenant legal duty, establishing the Defence Housing Service, expanding our pool of reserves and reforming the service justice system to boost protections and support for serving personnel. Firstly, the bill strengthens the armed covenant and this is a promise that those who serve and their families should face no disadvantage because of that service.

Secondly, the bill addresses long standing concerns about defence housing. The quality of accommodation is not a peripheral issue. It is central to recruitment, retention and family life. Thirdly, on reserves, the Bill recognises the increasingly vital role played by reservists in modern defence and they are essential to our operational capability. Deployed alongside regulars, reserves and reserves, our strategic reserves gives us wider access to the specialist skills we increasingly need in the face of a shifting landscape of threats. The measures in this bill help to support mobilisation, improve flexibility and ensure that reservists are properly integrated, valued and supported.

In doing so, we strengthen not only our military capability, but the essential connection between our armed forces and wider society. Finally, the Bill delivers important reforms to the service justice system, discipline, fairness and confidence in the system are fundamental to operational effectiveness and morale, and so the changes set out in this bill aim to modernise and improve victim support and boost protections for those serving. Taken together, these four pillars reflect our commitment to improve service life in a practical and lasting way.

At a time of growing global uncertainty. We are asking more of our armed forces than ever before. So it is right that we match that ask with action to protect, support and value those who serve. This bill not only removes the legal foundation of our armed forces, it renews our national commitment to them. And I want to end by paying tribute to the courage, the professionalism and the dedication shown by the men and women of our armed forces. We are proud to count them as the finest in the world.

And above all, this bill is for them. I therefore commend this bill to the House.

**** Possible New Speaker ****

The bill be now read a third time, and I call the Shadow Minister David Reed.

**** Possible New Speaker ****

Minister David Reed. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker, and I would like to start in the same way that the Minister did, by same way that the Minister did, by thanking all the clerks and all the parliamentary staff that have made this bill come together. They have kept things on track and it's been impressive to watch. Now, Madam Deputy Speaker, given the strength Deputy Speaker, given the strength of the political headwinds we are navigating at present and with little sign of them abating in the

21:55

David Reed MP (Exmouth and Exeter East, Conservative)

- -

22:01

Motion on behalf of the Committee of Selection: Education Committee; Environment, Food and Rural Affairs Committee; Housing, Communities and Local Government Committee; Justice Committee; Science, Innovation and Technology Committee; Transport Committee; Treasury Committee; Women and Equalities Committee; Work and Pensions Committee

22:03

Adjournment: British Coal Staff Superannuation Scheme surplus sharing arrangements

including people like my grandad, great grandad, dad's uncles. In fact, I can't remember any male member of my family not working down the pit in the 1950s and 60s when I went underground for the first time in the 1980s, there were still around 170,000 men working in the coal mine. Now we have probably about 112,000 former miners who are

22:04

Lee Anderson MP (Ashfield, Reform UK)

- -

22:18

Chris McDonald MP, Parliamentary Under Secretary of State (Department for Business and Trade) (Stockton North, Labour)

- -

14:00

Members taking the oath

14:39

Oral questions: Education

Question Question one Question one for Question one for question Question one for question number.

**** Possible New Speaker ****

One, Mr. Speaker. I've been worried. The Minister.

**** Possible New Speaker ****

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. And I'm delighted to see the enthusiasm for our reforms to school food. We want to enjoy children eating tasty, to enjoy children eating tasty, healthy food at school, and that's why we're updating the school food standards for the first time in a standards for the first time in a decade and putting young people's voices at the heart of our plans. We'll publish the new standards in

14:40

Q1. What steps her Department is taking to improve the nutritional standards of school food. (900519)

September alongside our record expansion of free school meals. Driving down poverty and delivering a revolution in school food.

14:40

Olivia Bailey MP, Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State (Department for Education) (Equalities) (Reading West and Mid Berkshire, Labour)

- -

Jim Dickson. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I know looking at me, you would never guess that my children are now well past school age. But when they were at school and that was long past Jamie Oliver's campaign against Turkey Twizzlers, the school food served was still not as healthy as it should have been. So I am really delighted by the Minister's assurance that the government has consulted on the first update to school food standards in a decade. I am, however, just slightly puzzled by the phased approach to improving the drinks served in secondary the drinks served in secondary schools through until September 2028.

So will the government consider speeding up this timetable consider speeding up this timetable and moving towards alignment with primary schools, so that we don't miss a crucial opportunity to miss a crucial opportunity to improve the health of our young people?

14:41

Jim Dickson MP (Dartford, Labour)

- -

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Alongside updating the standards, we also want to support schools to implement them. That's why, alongside developing new governance and compliance proposals, it's right that we give schools the time they need to prepare and embed the new standards, including phasing some changes in secondary schools. The consultation on our proposals closed just over a week ago, and we will consider all responses carefully.

14:41

Olivia Bailey MP, Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State (Department for Education) (Equalities) (Reading West and Mid Berkshire, Labour)

- -

Wera Hobhouse thank you, Mr. >> Wera Hobhouse thank you, Mr. Speaker. I recently visited Ralph Allen School in my constituency, and I saw how students were leading and I saw how students were leading the way in improving the standard of their food. They have been creating a vegetable bed in an empty space. They have. They are now offering vegan and vegetarian choices and I would really like to understand how will the department support schools in pupil led improvements to their food?

14:41

Wera Hobhouse MP (Bath, Liberal Democrat)

- -

OK. example in her constituency. And I think it's really important that our approach to food is embedded right the way across the school curriculum, whether that's children planting their own vegetables in schools, and also children designing their own menus too. That's why, as part of our consultation, we've been driving forward with listening to young people's voices, and young people will continue to be at the forefront of our new school menus.

14:42

Olivia Bailey MP, Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State (Department for Education) (Equalities) (Reading West and Mid Berkshire, Labour)

- -

Clive Jones thank you very much, >> Clive Jones thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Without clear levers, accountability cannot.

**** Possible New Speaker ****

Minister. Thank you, Mr. Speaker, for the national consultation and local reform plans. Will making sure that multi-academy trusts play a key role in. Send reforms? New national inclusion standards will create shared expectations for all schools around inclusive education and the Send reforms make clear our expectations that all Mats and schools work in partnership with local authorities to ensure the local authorities to ensure the needs of every child in an area are met.

14:42

Q2. What assessment her Department has made of the potential impact of planned SEND reforms on the ability of local authorities to effectively cooperate with multi-academy trusts on the delivery of local area SEND improvement plans. (900520)

Clive Jones thank you, Mr. Speaker. I thank the Minister for

14:43

Georgia Gould MP, Minister of State (Education) (Queen's Park and Maida Vale, Labour)

- -

her answer. Without clear levers, accountability cannot be guaranteed and the Department cannot ensure and the Department cannot ensure that send reforms translate into consistent, high quality support for children and their families on for children and their families on the ground. So will the Minister clarify what specific and enforceable powers local enforceable powers local authorities will have to ensure that multi-academy trusts play their full part in delivering local

14:43

Clive Jones MP (Wokingham, Liberal Democrat)

- -

their full part in delivering local area send plans? >> Minister thank you, Mr. Speaker. So the government will be setting national standards for all schools, including multi-academy trusts. So national inclusion standards will be developed by an independent expert panel, and all schools will need to make sure that they are delivered. We are also introducing new inspections for multi-academy trusts that will focus on a range of levers, including including the importance of inclusion in education and through our focus on area partnerships, we're really clear that every player, whether clear that every player, whether that's schools, health services or local authorities, need to work together to deliver for children.

together to deliver for children.

14:44

Georgia Gould MP, Minister of State (Education) (Queen's Park and Maida Vale, Labour)

- -

Ruth Cadbury thank you, Mr. Speaker. Special needs specialists in my constituency and schools in my constituency have raised with me their concerns about the shortage of educational psychologists and a mum of a profoundly disabled child that I met on Saturday raised her concerns about the shortage of occupational therapists. What's the government doing to address the needs of this very specific group of people with additional needs?

14:44

Ruth Cadbury MP (Brentford and Isleworth, Labour)

- -

Mr. speaker, I really appreciate that question. It's absolutely at the heart of our reforms to make educational psychologists, occupational therapists, speech and language therapists far more accessible for students within mainstream education. We're investing £1.8 billion in a new Experts at Hand service. It will start from September. And as part of that, we're also investing £40 million into training up new educational psychologists and speech and language therapists. So we make sure we're developing the workforce to really ensure that all children have access to an inclusive education.

14:45

Georgia Gould MP, Minister of State (Education) (Queen's Park and Maida Vale, Labour)

- -

Jerome Mayhew three seconds.

**** Possible New Speaker ****

Minister Mr. speaker, under this government, apprenticeship starts by young people are up. We're going by young people are up. We're going further and investing an additional £1 billion to support 50,000 more young people into apprenticeships, young people into apprenticeships, with new foundation apprenticeships and £2,000 for smaller employers

**** Possible New Speaker ****

when they hire young apprentices. Jerome Mayhew Mr. Speaker, thank you, but there's no correlation between what the Minister says and

14:45

Q3. What steps her Department is taking to support apprenticeships for young people. (900521)

between what the Minister says and what's happening on the ground. If you look at Broadland and Fakenham, in the last year, the number of apprenticeships have dropped by 20%. They haven't gone up. They've gone from 150 down to 120. So if the Minister thinks that more apprenticeships are a good idea, why doesn't he sign up for 100,000 why doesn't he sign up for 100,000 new ones and support the people?

14:45

Josh MacAlister MP, The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Education (Whitehaven and Workington, Labour)

- -

Here he is.

14:45

Jerome Mayhew MP (Broadland and Fakenham, Conservative)

- -

you should look at what people do, not what they say. And this is a government that is reversing the government that is reversing the decline, the 40% reduction, the 40% reduction in apprenticeship starts for young people under the previous for young people under the previous under the previous government. We are taking a range of steps, including supporting SMEs, including supporting SMEs, including creating greater flexibility in apprenticeship system, all so that we can create an extra 50,000 opportunities for

14:46

Josh MacAlister MP, The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Education (Whitehaven and Workington, Labour)

- -

young people to have apprenticeships. >> Gareth Snell Mr. Speaker, I draw the House's attention to my register of interest as a governor of two education institutions and as chair of the all party group on sixth forms. Could I ask the Minister about access to the apprenticeship register? Because in Stoke on Trent, great companies like the spark Group are struggling to get that registration that they want so they can grow their offer to young people. They're limited by the £100,000 de minimis for subcontracting, but they have young people that want to take on the apprenticeships they're offering.

So can you set out what this government might do to change that? And would he be willing to meet with me and the spark group, so we can look at ways in which they can want?

14:46

Gareth Snell MP (Stoke-on-Trent Central, Labour )

- -

I know that my hon. Friend is a fierce champion for apprenticeships and technical education. Very happy to meet with him to discuss those matters further. But my noble friend, the Baroness Smith. In the other place, the Minister for skills has taken a whole series of actions with the Secretary of State to reform our apprenticeship system, open it up and create tens of thousands of additional opportunities for young people. His idea of what we need to do.

14:47

Josh MacAlister MP, The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Education (Whitehaven and Workington, Labour)

- -

Mr. Speaker. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. speaker, I am pleased to say that this government is driving record investment in our schools. With the core schools Budget increasing by £1.7 billion this year. This includes funding that allows us to reform the send system, training up our teachers, making our schools more inclusive and making sure that every child can achieve and thrive. Sarah Coombes Mr Speaker.

14:47

Rt Hon Bridget Phillipson MP, The Secretary of State for Education (Houghton and Sunderland South, Labour)

- -

Eaton Valley. have enthusiastically embraced. >> Net zero, and the government has supported them by putting solar panels on the roof, a battery to panels on the roof, a battery to store the power and EV charge points in the car park that is already saving the school hundreds of pounds off their energy bills every single week. Will the government look to roll out similar schemes across more schools in the Black Country, which both reduces our carbon emissions and allows more money to be invested directly into teachers and pupils?

14:48

Sarah Coombes MP (West Bromwich, Labour)

- -

Elstow yes, Mr. Speaker, we will. >> Elstow yes, Mr. Speaker, we will. We are rolling out the GB energy solar programme to around 350 schools and colleges. We are also schools and colleges. We are also unlocking private finance, investment in solar and energy efficiency for schools and colleges, with pilots planned for later this year. I am really pleased to hear of the impact of the scheme in my constituency. A school local to me in Sunderland recently shared that they had saved £4,000 this year through being part of it, which they are using to put on more school trips and more activities.

Mr. speaker, we are saving schools money on their energy bills. This will allow them to invest more in driving up standards and in teacher quality. quality.

14:48

Rt Hon Bridget Phillipson MP, The Secretary of State for Education (Houghton and Sunderland South, Labour)

- -

Mark Pritchard year. about to see a multi-million. Pound rebuild of the school or a new build in phases. Most of that money will come from the Department of Education, but not all of it. So would the Secretary of State commit to ensuring that the funding is delivered, so that the school does continue to offer school places for the extra 25 places that are part of the scheme, and the 26th place of the scheme, and the 26th place nursery.

That's also part of the scheme before we've had false starts. This needs to be delivered, but we need commitment from the government.

14:49

Rt Hon Mark Pritchard MP (The Wrekin, Conservative)

- -

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for raising what is obviously a very important case in his constituency. I'll make sure that I look into the concerns that he's raised, and if it's helpful for him to meet with the Minister to discuss that further, I'll make sure that's arranged, too.

14:49

Rt Hon Bridget Phillipson MP, The Secretary of State for Education (Houghton and Sunderland South, Labour)

- -

Liberal Democrat spokesperson >> Liberal Democrat spokesperson Munira Wilson. >> Thank you very. >> Much, Mr. Speaker. With a growing obesity and mental health growing obesity and mental health crisis among our children and young people, quality physical education has never been more important. Yet has never been more important. Yet annual funding for PE will be slashed by a staggering 22% under the new PE and Schools Sports Partnership Network, with primary schools being hit particularly hard. And Mr. Speaker, to make matters worse, these cuts are being hastily rammed through midway through the school year, leaving teachers, parents and sports co-ordinators completely stranded.

So can the Secretary of State look parents and Secretary of State look parents and teachers in the eye and claim that cutting sports budgets mid-term is giving every child the opportunity giving every child the opportunity to get on RCFA.

14:50

Munira Wilson MP (Twickenham, Liberal Democrat)

- -

Mr. speaker, I agree with where the hon. Lady started, which is that PE in sport, access to high quality sports coaching provision and resourcing in terms of capital investment as well in schools is incredibly important. Alongside the work we're doing on school food to make sure that children get a great meal at lunchtime, in particular, alongside a huge expansion of free

14:50

Rt Hon Bridget Phillipson MP, The Secretary of State for Education (Houghton and Sunderland South, Labour)

- -

school meals, we have committed over £1 billion of investment in over £1 billion of investment in the new PE and sport work that we're setting out to establish that new partnership. But we are making sure that through that process, primary schools are supported with transitional payments, with support, and we're working very closely with leadership organisations to make sure that schools have all of the information they need as we move information they need as we move towards a new system, which has been widely welcomed by sporting bodies and other organisations, as opening up opportunities for more young people.

I'd be very happy to discuss it further with the hon. Lady, because I think, Mr. Speaker,

**** Possible New Speaker ****

there is some misunderstanding about the approach that we're taking around transitional protections and support for primary schools. Stop.

**** Possible New Speaker ****

Stop. Question five, Mr. Speaker. Far too long. Minister Mr. Speaker, we are

**** Possible New Speaker ****

Minister Mr. Speaker, we are deeply grateful for the service of military families, and we recognise the additional pressures that the additional pressures that military life puts on the education and family life of those families. This is an area we're working closely with colleagues in the Ministry of Defence to address and schools receive service pupil premium funding to address challenges including mobility and family separation. We're improving family separation. We're improving support for families who move frequently, including proposing new digital individual support plans and education healthcare plans to make those moves easier.

14:51

Georgia Gould MP, Minister of State (Education) (Queen's Park and Maida Vale, Labour)

- -

Paul Foster Brookwood Primary School in Woking educates a significant number of military families because Army Training Centre Pirbright is nearby. Those children have their education disrupted by their. Because of the nature of their parents vital work in the Armed Forces. So in this Armed Forces Week, will the government look at what further support that they can give, including increasing the service pupil premium that has only gone up by just £20 in two years?

14:52

Mr Will Forster MP (Woking, Liberal Democrat)

- -

Yeah.

**** Possible New Speaker ****

Mr. speaker, I thank the hon. Member for that question. And I'm actually visiting a garrison in actually visiting a garrison in North Yorkshire in similar circumstances to to talk to families, to talk to schools about families, to talk to schools about the particular pressure that they face supporting children with that high mobility. It's something we high mobility. It's something we are really closely working on, as I set out, particularly through the Send reforms, because what I've

14:52

Georgia Gould MP, Minister of State (Education) (Queen's Park and Maida Vale, Labour)

- -

Send reforms, because what I've heard time and time again from military families is one of the biggest barriers for them, is if there's an additional need, how hard it can be moved to move from from place to place. And I've set out some of the changes we're

**** Possible New Speaker ****

making, but it's an area that we're looking closely at, and I'd be very happy to to meet with him to discuss further. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

**** Possible New Speaker ****

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This morning I had the honour of taking part in flag raising ahead of Armed Forces Day in Thurrock in of Armed Forces Day in Thurrock in my home patch, and while I reflected that the impact of service is one of pride, there's service is one of pride, there's also a big impact on the families of men and women who bravely serve our country, particularly on those our country, particularly on those with special educational needs and disability. So what measures is she taking to make sure that when a child with Send follows their parent due to their military service, that they are not adversely impacted?

14:53

Jen Craft MP (Thurrock, Labour)

- -

Mr. speaker, I thank my hon. Friend for her question. And as as I've set out at the moment, it is far too hard to move sand provision from from place to place in the country. So the changes we're making, introducing national inclusion standards, national specialist provision packages and digital individual support plans and EHCPs will make a massive difference in making it far easier to move provision. But we are absolutely consulting on this and continuing to talk to to military continuing to talk to to military families and really welcome the engagement on this important issue.

14:54

Georgia Gould MP, Minister of State (Education) (Queen's Park and Maida Vale, Labour)

- -

Calum Miller. Mr. speaker, in this Armed Services Week, I want to draw the Minister's attention to the issue that has just been discussing. I've heard too often from families in my area who are service personnel, families that when their children need to move, the EHCP, which they've spent some time arguing for, does not automatically follow with their child. Not only does this disrupt the child's education, but it makes it much harder for that service personnel family to move together. Often the person serving has to move first.

So can I implore the Minister not just to come up with digital solutions, to work closely digital solutions, to work closely with the MoD to really address this crucial matter.

14:54

Calum Miller MP (Bicester and Woodstock, Liberal Democrat)

- -

Mr. speaker, I met a Minister from the Ministry of Defence just last week. We were discussing exactly these issues. I've heard from service personnel that they've turned down jobs as a result of being worried about moving provision. It's a massive priority and it's something that we are working on.

14:55

Georgia Gould MP, Minister of State (Education) (Queen's Park and Maida Vale, Labour)

- -

Alex Baker thank. the Minister for her work on the issues around send, particularly with service families, and for with service families, and for meeting me, service families and personnel through the work of the Armed Forces community APPG. Those service families took so much strength from the fact that you were there, that the Minister was there to listen to them. Can the Minister commit that through all the future steps of the send reforms that service families will be recognised within the work?

14:55

Alex Baker MP (Aldershot, Labour)

- -

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and I would like to really thank my hon. Friend for and her co-chair for organising the APPG. It was a. It was a really impactful conversation. We heard some of the challenges that that people have spoken about today of service families really struggling to, to navigate the Send system. And the people that I spoke to welcome some of the changes that I've set out today. But they also set out new ideas, which we'll be looking at as part of our response to the consultation.

14:56

Georgia Gould MP, Minister of State (Education) (Queen's Park and Maida Vale, Labour)

- -

Steff Aquarone Josh Dean six.

**** Possible New Speaker ****

Please, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the government recognises, recognises the essential role that small schools play in their small schools play in their communities, many of which are in rural areas. The schools national funding formula accounts for the challenges faced by small schools in rural areas. Rural areas by providing additional funding

14:56

Q6. What steps she is taking to support small schools in rural communities. (900524)

through the lump sum and sparsity factor. >> Steff Aquarone. >> Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I was

14:56

Georgia Gould MP, Minister of State (Education) (Queen's Park and Maida Vale, Labour)

- -

deeply saddened to receive the news from Minister last week that Corpusty school will close from September across North Norfolk. There are small rural schools just like Corpusty, and they're worried about whether they might be next to face closure. Research and guidance from the DfE for running a small rural school was conducted eight years ago and published in March 2019. That's about to be six prime Ministers ago. Will the Minister commit to undertaking new research and publishing up to date guidance, so that small, rural primary schools can be protected in future?

14:57

Steff Aquarone MP (North Norfolk, Liberal Democrat)

- -

Mr. speaker, I really welcome the hon. Member taking the time to to meet me about the situation in his constituency and the real pressure that falling birth rates are having on on small schools. I've subsequently followed up on our conversation by meeting the his local council and talking about how we can work in partnership to to really support his constituency and, and the wider Norfolk area as, as they face these pressures and happy to continue conversations about our our priority as a government to our priority as a government to support rural schools, which we are prioritising and funding.

As I set out.

14:57

Georgia Gould MP, Minister of State (Education) (Queen's Park and Maida Vale, Labour)

- -

Peter Prinsley.

This debate has concluded

Return to start of debate - Return to top of page