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Live Debate
Commons Chamber
Commons Chamber
Thursday 10th July 2025
(began 3 months ago)
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This debate has concluded
09:34
Mr Speaker
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The
09:35
Speaker's Statement Mr Speaker
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The honourable The honourable member The honourable member for The honourable member for Gower
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The honourable member for Gower presented a petition from the secretary to the Omagh bombing inquiry, asking for access to and
inquiry, asking for access to and reported evidence of the Northern Ireland Affairs Committee inquiry
Ireland Affairs Committee inquiry into the bombing on 15 August, 1998. I have also received a letter from
I have also received a letter from the honourable member for Gower and
the honourable member for North Dorset, asking that this matter be given precedence as a matter of privilege on the grounds that, we
privilege on the grounds that, we suggest that the House should be given an opportunity to consider
given an opportunity to consider that petition.
That is profoundly unsatisfactory for it to have to
unsatisfactory for it to have to make a decision without any ability for any members to assess the proprietary of releasing the
proprietary of releasing the evidence or the privilege issues which may be raised by referring
which may be raised by referring such material to a statutory
such material to a statutory inquiry. Which we understood is the place out of Parliament for the purposes of article 9 of the Bill of
purposes of article 9 of the Bill of Rights.
I have considered the issue, I have decided that this is a matter
that I should allow the presidents according to the issues of
privilege, the honourable members may therefore table a motion to be
debated on Monday. The motion will be taken after any urgent questions or statements and before the
government business. The motion will be available to members once it has
been tabled, which will be before the rise of the House today. Order,
09:36
Oral questions: Cabinet Office
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order. We start with questions to Cabinet office.
09:36
Q1. What assessment his Department has made of the effectiveness of the new trading relationship with the EU. (905099)
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Question number one. With permission, I will answer
09:36
Rt Hon Nick Thomas-Symonds MP, The Paymaster General and Minister for the Cabinet Office (Torfaen, Labour)
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With permission, I will answer questions one and 15 together. We have reset our relationships with the European Union and are now
the European Union and are now focused on delivering a long-term strategic partnership to improve the lives of working people, make the UK
more prosperous. It is good for Wales, good for our borders and good
for jobs. -- Good or ill.
09:36
Sarah Pochin MP (Runcorn and Helsby, Reform UK)
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The UK joined the EEC in 1973. Which later became the European Union. Given this week's visit by
the French president, and given this government's desire for political
cooperation with the EU, can he confirm that no new or existing
trade deal will lead to this country rejoining the EU through the back door?
09:37
Rt Hon Nick Thomas-Symonds MP, The Paymaster General and Minister for the Cabinet Office (Torfaen, Labour)
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Absolutely, that is not the case. What we have... With European Union,
is a deal... Is a new deal, the
supermarket has a downward pressure
on prices. Oxford energy says it will bring the cost of energy done. I'm surprised to hear that reform are against that but then again, on
the day they welcomed in Liz Truss as party chairman as the new member, perhaps it is no surprise they take that view.
09:37
Rt Hon Sir Desmond Swayne MP (New Forest West, Conservative)
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At 545 yesterday, on farming
today, a shellfish farmer, it was put to the shellfish farmer that it
was going to become much easier for her to export her produce to the
European Union. Her response was, yes, but we are told the changes
will be two or perhaps four years away if they happen at all. Given what we have negotiated away, can it
be expedited?
09:38
Rt Hon Nick Thomas-Symonds MP, The Paymaster General and Minister for the Cabinet Office (Torfaen, Labour)
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I absolutely and determine to expedited as quickly as possible.
And it is fantastic to see the opposition in that position. I bought his front bench was a -- was
against these new arrangements. against these new arrangements.
09:38
Mike Wood MP (Kingswinford and South Staffordshire, Conservative)
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As the Minister will be aware, under the... Framework, the UK is entitled to take unilateral measures
to protect the internal market where there is a diversion of trade. FSB Northern Ireland say that 1/3 of
businesses that previously traded between Great Britain and Northern
Ireland have ceased to do so. We know from his interview yesterday that the Minister does not consider
three quarters of deportations being voluntary to represent a majority. Does he consider 1/3 of businesses diversion of trade and if you does
not, what would be a diversion of trade?
09:39
Rt Hon Nick Thomas-Symonds MP, The Paymaster General and Minister for the Cabinet Office (Torfaen, Labour)
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We have just introduced on 1 July, the phase free checks under
the winter framework. -- Phase 3. It was negotiated under proves coming,
we supported it, I assume the opposition continues to support
those arrangements. We obviously do monitor very very carefully the
issue of trade diversion he is talking about. We also stand ready to help businesses adjust to those
new arrangements.
09:39
Sarah Olney MP (Richmond Park, Liberal Democrat)
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A few months ago, this Government reached a small but welcome trade
agreement with the EU, our largest trading partner. Just this week, Members of this House heard from the
president of France, Emmanuel Macron, in the first state visit by a French president since 2008 and the best by a European Union
political leader since Brexit. And his remarks on the closeness of the relationship between the UK and
France. Now that UK EU relations are
at a turning point, doesn't the Minister agree that it is finally time to be more ambitious, drop the
red lines, Redtape and aim to negotiate the UK EU customs union which would boost the public offers
by £25 billion a year?
09:40
Rt Hon Nick Thomas-Symonds MP, The Paymaster General and Minister for the Cabinet Office (Torfaen, Labour)
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We have delivered an ambitious new trading arrangement with
European Union. We also delivered a
new free trade agreement with India, economic deal with United States. What she is suggesting the takeaway our freedom to be able to do that
and that is contrary to our economy.
Number two.
engage the EU on a range of issues
of importance to British citizens. The UK and the EU allow for visa travel in line with the standard arrangements for their country nationals, UK government will
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continue to listen to an advocate British citizens. Many thousands of our
09:41
Tom Hayes MP (Bournemouth East, Labour)
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Many thousands of our constituents, including my own, Philip and Catherine, Liverpudlian Spain. Writer Brexit they did so
without restriction but now they face limited bees options, resulting in more frequent flights. What
conversations has the Minister with Spain's government about ending these barriers?
09:41
Rt Hon Nick Thomas-Symonds MP, The Paymaster General and Minister for the Cabinet Office (Torfaen, Labour)
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I thank Philip and Catherine for raising this issue and I know my honourable friend is a powerful
advocate for them. It is the Foreign Office that leads on bilateral
issues and EU member state and the regular engage on a range of issues. Whilst we recognise that extending
the 9180 day period as a matter the member states in the EU, my honourable friend can be assured we
will continue to listen to an advocate for UK nationals affected.
09:41
Jim Shannon MP (Strangford, Democratic Unionist Party)
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Can I thank the Minister very much for his answer. As he will know, Northern Ireland is in the
limbo land of movement. We are half
in the United Kingdom, half in the EU because of the unfinished protocol bill that we have. Can the Minister tell us how those in
Northern Ireland will be affected by
this Schengen area movement in relation... And perhaps peculiar position they are as a result of the protocol?
09:42
Rt Hon Nick Thomas-Symonds MP, The Paymaster General and Minister for the Cabinet Office (Torfaen, Labour)
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Northern Ireland does have the unique advantage of dual market
access. And with regard to wider issues that the honourable gentlemen
is talking about in terms of application of EU law, he can be
assured the co-chair of the Joint Committee and I work very carefully and closely on these matters with
the Northern Ireland Executive.
09:42
Q3. What steps he is taking to relocate civil service roles to locations outside London. (905101)
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Question number three.
Parliamentary neighbour is
absolutely right to raise the importance of a Civil Service that has a presence around the country. He will know the importance of MHCLG
He will know the importance of MHCLG present in Wolverhampton to the local area and we want to see half
local area and we want to see half of our UK based senior civil servant being based outside of London by
2030. We recently announced plans to relocate thousands of civil servants roles to towns and cities across the whole of the UK.
09:43
Warinder Juss (Wolverhampton West, Labour)
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I thank my right honourable friend for his answer. Indeed, I do
for blessed to have a dual headquarters of the Ministry of
Housing, Communities and Local Government which employs over 250 people, right next to my constituency office in Wolverhampton
West. I welcome the government's plans to move civil servant roles out of London into communities like mine. Can my right honourable friend
please set out how these roles will work closely with businesses, the
city of Wolverhampton Council and communities my constituency and also help my constituents to pursue
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careers as civil servants? My honourable friend raises some very good points. We do not just
09:43
Rt Hon Pat McFadden MP, Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster (Wolverhampton South East, Labour)
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very good points. We do not just want to see buildings with no connection to the local community,
it is important they do have a connection to the local community. I also want to make sure there is good career progression in Civil Service
buildings outside the country. And recently announced a new Civil
Service apprenticeship scheme, so we can recruit people from all backgrounds to the Civil Service and make sure they can get promoted and
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enjoy a good Civil Service career. The last government saw civil
09:44
Rt Hon Sir Gavin Williamson MP (Stone, Great Wyrley and Penkridge, Conservative)
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The last government saw civil servants jobs relocated not just to Wolverhampton but also Stoke-on-
Wolverhampton but also Stoke-on- Trent. But it is really important the very top level of the Civil
Service is also located outside of London. Could the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster set out how many
permanent secretaries are currently located permanently outside of London? And what steps he would take
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to make sure more permanent secretaries are located in both Wolverhampton and Stoke-on-Trent? We don't have a Permanent
09:45
Rt Hon Pat McFadden MP, Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster (Wolverhampton South East, Labour)
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We don't have a Permanent Secretary in Wolverhampton but I do think it is important that there is
think it is important that there is a career progression. That scene
roles are outside the country, that should include permanent secretaries and that should also come within our target of half of UK based senior
civil servants being based outside
London by 2030. -- Senior roles.
09:45
Rt Hon Richard Holden MP (Basildon and Billericay, Conservative)
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Heads of Department have said
that 60% attendance actually finds the best balance foreseeable said's
working within departments, 60% in the office. However, in a recent written Parliamentary Question answer to my honourable friend, the
department said that actually no data exist for attendance outside
London HQ, it is certainly not
collected centrally. The Office of National Statistics produced data about their own workforce, which by the UK statistics authority comes
under the Cabinet Office. That shows a daily attendance rate of as little as 3% in some of the regional
offices of the ONS.
Does the Minister think that attendance rate of 3% will help career progression?
And therefore help relocate civil servants outside of London? Does he
think that 3% is acceptable? And isn't this part of a wider pattern of non-attendance in offices outside
London and isn't it time his department publishes the data on
09:46
Rt Hon Pat McFadden MP, Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster (Wolverhampton South East, Labour)
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There have been problems in the
Office for National Statistics. We launched a report into it which has recently reported that will be a
change in the leadership of the Office of National Statistics, as he is aware. That report did highlight
the amount of people not working in the office, a pattern which grew up
when his party was in power. And new leadership addresses every part of the recent report into the ONS.
09:46
Sarah Olney MP (Richmond Park, Liberal Democrat)
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Thank you Mr Speaker. The
government's recent announcement on a number of measures to reform the civil service include cutting up to 10,000 jobs and relocating thousands
of roles across the country. These reforms are vast in scope and could have a significant impact on public
services. But the government does not seem particularly interested in setting out the details to
Parliament on these changes. This House is not given any clarity to properly scrutinise which roles will be moved, cut, or otherwise change.
So I ask him when he will present his full plans of civil service reform to Parliament?
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Mr Speaker, on 14 May the
09:47
Rt Hon Pat McFadden MP, Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster (Wolverhampton South East, Labour)
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Mr Speaker, on 14 May the government announced the launch of campuses in Aberdeen and Manchester,
campuses in Aberdeen and Manchester, the closure of 11 buildings, and reaffirms the commitment on 50% of
senior roles that I mentioned. She said these are vast commitments. I
actually think we need to go faster, and reform of the state is essential. And this will not be the end of the civil service and state
reform.
09:47
Q4. What steps he is taking to improve relations with the EU. (905104)
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Question number four Mr Speaker.
together. On 19th May we held the first of UK-EU Summit announced a
first of UK-EU Summit announced a strategic partnership that will make people across the UK safer, more secure, more prosperous. Delivering
secure, more prosperous. Delivering greater security by the security and defence partnership. Increased
defence partnership. Increased safety through tackling irregular migration and organised crime. Prosperity through the removal of Prosperity through the removal of trade barriers, energy transition and a cheaper transition to net zero.
Good for bills, jobs, and borders.
09:48
Rt Hon Nick Thomas-Symonds MP, The Paymaster General and Minister for the Cabinet Office (Torfaen, Labour)
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I thank my right honourable
friend for his answer. Can the minister in his capacity leading the UK-EU relations outline how The
UK-EU relations outline how The Cabinet Office is ensuring that the new sanitary and phytosanitary agreement will produce a level of
agreement will produce a level of checks on agreements are both the Eurotunnel in Folkestone in Dover
Eurotunnel in Folkestone in Dover and improve the flow of trade? And what steps are being taken to further breakdown barriers to trade with the EU? with the EU?
My honourable friend is a powerful advocate for his constituency of Folkestone and
Hythe.
He is right, the SPS agreement will remove routine SPS border checks and certification
including for good travelling through Folkestone and the Port of
Dover. Fresh produce will reach supermarket shelves more quickly
with less paperwork and fewer costs.
09:49
Gregor Poynton MP (Livingston, Labour)
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The new agreement with the EU will help Scottish businesses to
grow and to export. World-class product producers in my constituency such as shortbread in my constituency and the Scottish salmon industry have warmly welcomed this
deal for Scotland. Why does the Minister think the SNP, Tories, and Reform have set their face against it?
09:49
Rt Hon Nick Thomas-Symonds MP, The Paymaster General and Minister for the Cabinet Office (Torfaen, Labour)
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My honourable friend speaks powerfully for his local businesses
I'm delighted that great produce such as Patterson shortbread,
sausages and potatoes will benefit from easier and cheaper trade with the EU by the SPS agreement. Any
party that wants to reverse this would have to explain why they want to take away £9 billion a year worth
of benefits by 2040 from our economy.
09:50
Mr Connor Rand MP (Altrincham and Sale West, Labour)
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After years of the Conservatives picking fights with our most important allies rather than working with them on the shared challenges
we face, does the Minister agree with me that our recently agreed to
trade deal and doubt closer cooperation on security and migration show the benefits of a grown-up approach to improving
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relations their European partners? My honourable friend is right. The trading Corporation agreement
09:50
Rt Hon Nick Thomas-Symonds MP, The Paymaster General and Minister for the Cabinet Office (Torfaen, Labour)
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The trading Corporation agreement left a massive gap in our ability to
tackle regular migration. The agreements have now made with the EU starts the process of filling that gap through a competitive partnership. It includes enhancing
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our operational relationship to tackle organised immigration crime, and irregular migration with key agencies like for example Europol. Thank you Mr Speaker. This
09:51
James Wild MP (North West Norfolk, Conservative)
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Thank you Mr Speaker. This government has a track record of announcing trade deals and then nothing actually happens, as our
nothing actually happens, as our steel sector can attest. Two months on from the Prime Minister are
crowing about the deal with the EU, can the Minister confirm whether SPS checks, showing criminal records
data and energy cooperation has any legal text actually been agreed at
any of those measures being implemented or not?
09:51
Rt Hon Nick Thomas-Symonds MP, The Paymaster General and Minister for the Cabinet Office (Torfaen, Labour)
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Mr Speaker, if he is simply saying our trade deals make the
difference should visit Jaguar Land Rover and speak to the workers there, whose jobs were saved by the economic deal with the United
States. With regard to the matters that he has raised, he is right to
say that the new understanding is not in itself illegal text, he is
right. We will now be moving forward to agree that legal text as soon as
possible. Given that backbench questions so far, they all seem to want it done as is possible despite
the opposition from the frontbench.
09:51
Rt Hon Alistair Carmichael MP (Orkney and Shetland, Liberal Democrat)
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If the last nine years have taught us nothing, they have taught
us it is much easier to agree about the need for an agreement then it is
necessarily to reach an agreement. The SPS agreement is going to be critically important for Food &
Drink exports. We will only get one chance in this will stop to get it we need maximum engagement with the
companies and businesses, and actually doing the exporting. What
is the Minister doing to ensure that their voices are heard in these negotiations and that the agreement suits them?
09:52
Rt Hon Nick Thomas-Symonds MP, The Paymaster General and Minister for the Cabinet Office (Torfaen, Labour)
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The honourable gentleman is absolute right. That is why I have engaged throughout this, the
domestic advisory group that exists under the previous trading agreement
that I regularly speak to, it contains a range of stakeholders. I do go beyond that in terms of the
work that I do. He is right that the voice of stakeholders being heard through this process of agreeing the
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legal text on the SPS is hugely important. While we await the details of the
09:53
Robin Swann MP (South Antrim, Ulster Unionist Party)
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While we await the details of the SPS, Northern Ireland is still seen new and additional bureaucracy being
new and additional bureaucracy being introduced thanks to the Windsor Framework. Does the Minister agree it would make more sense to extend a
period rather than introduce more as
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had already been indicated in the Northern Ireland report? In terms of our ability to
09:53
Rt Hon Nick Thomas-Symonds MP, The Paymaster General and Minister for the Cabinet Office (Torfaen, Labour)
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In terms of our ability to negotiate generally, it is hugely important that we show good faith in implementing the agreement that the country has already agreed to
country has already agreed to previously. I would say to the honourable gentleman as well, I always show pragmatism in terms of
implementation of the Windsor Framework. Take for example parcels,
when I went to Belfast as it was not
readiness for businesses there, I applied for six month delay, secured it and implement it.
So be assured I take that pragmatic approach.
09:53
Q6. What recent progress he has made on implementing the Plan for Change. (905106)
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Question six.
09:53
Rt Hon Ellie Reeves MP, Minister without Portfolio (Lewisham West and East Dulwich, Labour)
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Our Plan for Change is already delivering the change the country voted for one year ago. Great
British Energy headquartered in Aberdeen is investing £1 billion in offshore winter supply chains
benefiting workers in our industrial heartland. Britain had the highest growth in the G7 in the first
quarter of this year, interest rates
and cut four times, there is more to do but after 14 years of decline
under the Tories and SNP rule in Scotland, the country is turning a
corner with this Labour government.
Quite last week the Health Secretary shared his plans to improve the NHS
by giving patients more control over their treatment. Patients in England are now able to book appointments
and honour the prescriptions on the
and honour the prescriptions on the NHS app. The lack of Scotland's NHS app been described as national
app been described as national embarrassment, but with the Minister agree with me that people living in Scotland are being left behind?
My honourable friend makes a very important point.
Under this Labour government, NHS waiting list are falling, and we have an ambitious
plan for the NHS future. Under the SNP, Scotland has an analogue
government in a digital age. And Scottish patients are missing out. Scotland needs a new direction which I hope it will take with Anas Sarwar's Scottish Labour Party next
year.
09:55
Wera Hobhouse MP (Bath, Liberal Democrat)
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Yesterday I met with members of the Spanish Senate but we are
talking about energy security and how to bring energy bills down for
our residents on either side of the channel. It is very clear that
energy trading between the EU and the UK does not work properly. What
progress has been made in order to improve into connectors and make that investment as soon as
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necessary? ... Not quite relevant if you happy.
09:56
Rt Hon Ellie Reeves MP, Minister without Portfolio (Lewisham West and East Dulwich, Labour)
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happy. It is in the common understanding
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and we want a deeper relationship with our partners in the EU on this issue. Shadow Secretary of State.
09:56
Alex Burghart MP (Brentwood and Ongar, Conservative)
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Shadow Secretary of State. Thank you Mr Speaker. In its Plan for Change, the government pledged
for Change, the government pledged to get the country the highest sustained growth in the G7. Or, actually the Conservative government
left it. But it seems that this
government is on course to fail. All respected international analysis,
the OECD, the World Bank, the IMF
and so on suggest that over the next four years, UK economy will grow nothing like as fast as for example the United States or Canada.
What
analysis Can the minister .2 that suggests otherwise?
09:56
Rt Hon Ellie Reeves MP, Minister without Portfolio (Lewisham West and East Dulwich, Labour)
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Since coming into government one year ago, we have taken measures to fix the mess left behind by the
Conservatives. This is why in the first quarter of this year, the
fastest-growing economy in the G7. Interest rates have gone down four times, people are paying less in
their mortgages. Wages are rising
faster than prices. That is the difference a Labour government
makes.
09:57
Alex Burghart MP (Brentwood and Ongar, Conservative)
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It is no surprise that the Minster could not point to any such analysis because no such analysis
exists. That is because the government has no Plan for Growth. They do have a plan for tax and they have a plan for borrowing. Much more
borrowing. The OBR is excoriating report earlier this week highlighted
just how dangerous this is. Under this government, there is the very real prospect of a sovereign debt
crisis. Where is the government's plan to avoid this? It is not clear
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that the markets can wait until November. Our Plan for Growth is central to
09:57
Rt Hon Ellie Reeves MP, Minister without Portfolio (Lewisham West and East Dulwich, Labour)
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Our Plan for Growth is central to this mission driven government. Our investment in housing, building 1.5
investment in housing, building 1.5 million homes will add £7 billion to the economy by the end of the
Parliament. We are getting building with spades in the ground, with our
rail and road projects. We are getting on where the Tories failed this country for 14 years.
09:58
Q7. What progress he has made on publishing a tracking dashboard for the Plan for Change metrics. (905107)
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Number seven Mr Speaker.
09:58
Rt Hon Pat McFadden MP, Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster (Wolverhampton South East, Labour)
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With your permission is to speak I would like to answer questions seven, 14, and 17 together. Our Plan for Change is already delivering for
the British people, as my honourable friend has just said. Wages up more in the first 10 months of our
government and in 10 years under the
previous government. A new nuclear age with £14 billion committed to building Sizewell C, is a critical
part of our clean energy transition. NHS waiting lists down by over 200,000 for the first time in years.
What a contrast to the record of the party opposite.
09:58
Mr Gagan Mohindra MP (South West Hertfordshire, Conservative)
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Thank you Mr Speaker. Can the minister reassure the house that
once he has started publishing the tracking dashboard of the Plan for Change, the six milestones won't go
the same way as the three foundations, the six first steps of
change, the five missions, the seven steps of growth, and be abandoned and replaced when the Government
realises they are missing their targets? To grab Mr Speaker, if you
want more facts about delivery let me help him out right now.
Last week we launched the biggest social and
affordable housing program in a generation, meeting a need that has
generation, meeting a need that has been unmet for years in the country. We have extended free school meals to half a million more children, and
to half a million more children, and this year we will be putting 3000 more neighbourhood police back on the beat. I'm happy to give him all
the figures he wants. the figures he wants.
09:59
Joe Robertson MP (Isle of Wight East, Conservative)
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Thank you Mr Speaker. Given that the government Plan for Change tracking dashboard is still in development, could I ask the
Minister to include a column or facility that tracks all the U- turns? Or, as the government made to
call it, the changes to the Plan for Change, brackets, 'subject to
change', so the government can see where the changes have taken place such as grooming gang and welfare
reform? Will also help Labour backbenchers keep up with where the government's current position is.
10:00
Rt Hon Pat McFadden MP, Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster (Wolverhampton South East, Labour)
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Mr Speaker I hear a cry for more delivery statistics. We have also
delivery statistics. We have also
recruited 1500 new GPs, deported 30,000 people with no right to be here, an expansion of free school
meals will lift 100,000 children out
of poverty. He is walking.
10:00
Rebecca Smith MP (South West Devon, Conservative)
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The government is happy to claim that all is rosy after their first
year in power. On the ground in my constituency and around the country, the opposite story is being told. The government's policies are
hitting my constituency is hard, where the impact on pacts of
National Insurance increases, the prospect of more red tape for landlords and moving the goalposts are most honourable. Given the
government's amazing claims, why are they so reticent to share Plan for Change metrics in one place so the
people of the UK can see the reality of this Labour government in hard
10:01
Rt Hon Pat McFadden MP, Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster (Wolverhampton South East, Labour)
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She seems to want more delivery,
so let me help out. The highest
growth of energy economy in the first quarter of this year, cuts in interest rates and a Warm Homes
Discount which be expanding, meaning
6 million households will benefit from better insulated houses. I make this point to. I do not claim in
reading out the statistics that everything is perfect, far from it.
But I do believe we have a change in the last year, change in the investment pattern of the country, change in real wages, changing our trading position, change that is
well worth having.
10:02
Georgia Gould MP, The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Queen's Park and Maida Vale, Labour)
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Question number eight.
frontline workers have had 10
navigate fragmented and underfunded services, having to arm up for battle when using public services. From our best strategy to new
neighbourhood self-centred, we are reforming public services so money is invested into prevention, services are designed with ample local communities and people always
come first.
10:02
Irene Campbell MP (North Ayrshire and Arran, Labour)
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Will the Minister agree with me,
while waiting... Thanks to our investment in billions of pounds international health service, it is
an absolute disgrace we have seen record levels of money being provided to the Scottish Government,
waiting list in Scotland are continuing to rise?
10:02
Georgia Gould MP, The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Queen's Park and Maida Vale, Labour)
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As my honourable friend set out, since Labour came into power, we have seen waiting lists continue to
fall, 2 million new appointments and
the Scottish people have not seen the same benefits. But luckily they do not need to wait too long to vote
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for a Labour government with a plan to change this. Question number nine.
10:03
Rt Hon Nick Thomas-Symonds MP, The Paymaster General and Minister for the Cabinet Office (Torfaen, Labour)
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Question number nine. We are fully committed to introducing a Hillsborough Law,
introducing a Hillsborough Law, including a legal duty for Canada public servants, criminal sanctions for those who refuse to comply. We
have been engaging with the families
and we will continue to do so. -- Legal duty for Pandora.
10:03
Ian Byrne MP (Liverpool West Derby, Labour)
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There is a long list for MPs,
Ministers and prime Ministers across both sides of this House to enable the establishment cover-up at
Hillsborough and denied justice for survivors, with only a few exceptions who did the right thing. The establishment is a powerful
force and it seeks real college -- courage to confront its nuclear accountability. Given the government
has so far failed to deliver this promise to enact a Hillsborough Law,
does the Minister recognise this is a continuation of the betrayal of
the Hillsborough families, survivors and all those affected by state cover-ups? If he does recognise this, will he support the Hillsborough Law I'm tabling
tomorrow at second reading, if not, why not?
10:04
Rt Hon Nick Thomas-Symonds MP, The Paymaster General and Minister for the Cabinet Office (Torfaen, Labour)
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I want to first of all pay tribute to the work that my
honourable friend has done and I know he speaks from live experience
in this matter as well. He is bin and has been and will continue to be
an extraordinarily powerful advocate for the Hillsborough families. The assurance I give him is that the government is absolutely determined
to get this right.
10:04
Q10. What support his Department is providing to local partnerships to improve public service delivery. (905111)
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Question Number Ten.
10:04
Georgia Gould MP, The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Queen's Park and Maida Vale, Labour)
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One of the best parts of my job is to get to travel around the country and see the amazing work the local public service partnerships
are doing. Our test learning grow
program has been set up to get behind frontline innovators, trial new approaches, together central government with those on the frontline, local councils and
communities, learning from what is working and scaling up things that
work that improves thing for people.
10:05
Zöe Franklin MP (Guildford, Liberal Democrat)
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I thank the Minister comments and
it is really good to hear about that partnership working with local communities and local government. And in June I had the privilege of
going to the launch of a new innovative partnership between the University of and Guildford and
Waverley Borough councils, which is seeking to apply the University's global research expertise to real- world problems spaced by local
communities, from better housing to
addressing the shortage of planners. I wonder of the Minister could explain how the government will be supporting important initiatives
like this, which seek to deliver on the government aim to innovate and improve public service delivery and
which matter even more as local government reorganisation progresses across Surrey?
10:05
Georgia Gould MP, The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Queen's Park and Maida Vale, Labour)
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I thank my honourable friend for her question. As I said, some of the
best part of my job is getting to visit amazing projects like this and
I would be delighted to come and see the work that is happening there. Our missions are not just missions for government, they are missions
for the whole country. We need councils, universities, communities to come together and that partnership is incredibly important.
As I set out, test, learn and grow is about finding those innovators, finding those partnerships and
spreading that great practice...
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Number 11. Two weeks ago, we set out our
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Two weeks ago, we set out our plans to make sure that billions that this government is investing in
that this government is investing in roads, hospitals and railways mean good jobs, skills, opportunities for
good jobs, skills, opportunities for communities around the UK. Our plans will recognise industries critical to our national security, protecting
to our national security, protecting the UK resilient in sectors like steel and energy and creating high- quality British jobs and boosting skills in local communities. We keep
skills in local communities.
We keep requirements for companies to win contracts for large in the structure
10:08
Joe Powell MP (Kensington and Bayswater, Labour)
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products. Can I thank the Minister for all her hard work to bring together
her hard work to bring together procurement information centrally for the first time and improve the quality of that data. Can I ask what
progress is being made to push that out to the public in the dashboard and analytics that will help us
track and improve public procurement system and monitor the Government strategic goals on backing British SMEs and supporting key sectors of
the economy?
10:08
Georgia Gould MP, The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Queen's Park and Maida Vale, Labour)
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Can I thank my honourable friend for his continued advocacy for
greater transparency in procurement, which we know delivers better value
for money, better services. We set up a central platform which now holds over 4,000 pipeline notices and will soon be making a data platform available to facilitate
detailed analysis of SME participation and we are expecting
that to be available soon to procurement teams. We are currently scoping how we make that available to the wider public.
10:08
Q12. What steps he is taking to improve cooperation with devolved governments. (905113)
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Question 12.
10:08
Rt Hon Douglas Alexander MP, Minister of State (Cabinet Office) (Lothian East, Labour )
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The government is committed to working with all levels of government to deliver for people across the whole of the United Kingdom. In the last few weeks, I
attended interparliamentary forum to speak with colleagues across the four legislators and of how
productive discussions with the bowl government colleagues on our agreed
strategies. -- Devolved government colleagues.
10:08
Andrew Ranger MP (Wrexham, Labour)
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This Labour Government understands the importance of
partnership and power. And when you are I welcome that this partnership has delivered well -- one year are I
welcome that this partnership has delivered for Wales, boosting our economy and public services. At the
general election we rightly recognise that the Welsh fiscal framework is outdated. Please can
the Minister provide an update on progress being made to address this?
10:09
Rt Hon Douglas Alexander MP, Minister of State (Cabinet Office) (Lothian East, Labour )
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I can get my honourable friend
undertaking he seeks. We are committed to working in partnership with the Welsh Government to ensure
that framework is brought up-to-date and delivers value for money. My officials are supporting His Majesty treasury on how the framework can be
updated and work is under way.
10:09
Rt Hon David Mundell MP (Dumfriesshire, Clydesdale and Tweeddale, Conservative)
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Is the government still committed to one Civil Service across the
United Kingdom? And if so, what is
it proactively doing to ensure that as part of the career development,
UK Government civil servants work within the devolved Administrations and those within the devolved Administrations have roles within
the UK government?
10:09
Rt Hon Douglas Alexander MP, Minister of State (Cabinet Office) (Lothian East, Labour )
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I want to begin by paying tribute
to the work of the Civil Service, not just the UK government but also the civil servants across the United
Kingdom who do tireless work on behalf of the public each and every day. They are a critical part of this government's determination to
deliver significant change for the country and to drive forward the missions we have defined. In
relation to the point he describes, in the early years of devolution there was a lot more interchange
between the home Civil Service team in London and offices such as in Edinburgh, Belfast and Cardiff.
And
it is an issue which I know is being given thought to in terms of how we make sure there is the right
expertise in the right parts of the country and also in information exchanges, how to get it right.
10:10
Rt Hon Pat McFadden MP, Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster (Wolverhampton South East, Labour)
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Question number 13.
Minister, I made a statement in the House announcing the National
Security Strategy. This coincided with the NATO summit attended by the Prime Minister. At its heart the strategy has three pillars. Security
at home, strength abroad and increasing our sovereign and
asymmetric capabilities. My department will lead on the
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coordination of this work, which does not just apply the Cabinet Office but right across government. Cyber security is vital, not just
10:10
Alex McIntyre MP (Gloucester, Labour)
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Cyber security is vital, not just our national security, safeguarding our public services. So I was
our public services. So I was delighted to see Government is investing in the sector for its
cyber growth action plan. Some of that investment is going into my neighbouring town of Cheltenham. But there are so many fantastic opportunities potential
opportunities in my city of Gloucester. Will my right honourable friend meet with me to discuss how
my constituents can access those opportunities and secure the well- paid, high skill jobs of the future?
10:11
Rt Hon Pat McFadden MP, Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster (Wolverhampton South East, Labour)
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I recently... Just how important
cyber security is. We have over 2000 businesses across the UK generating
revenues of an estimated £13
billion, 67,000 jobs in this field. We are also a large exporter of cyber products. The truth is we do
need the training and the capability in this new area of defence. And I
am happy to ensure he gets a meeting with a relevant minister.
10:11
Richard Foord MP (Honiton and Sidmouth, Liberal Democrat)
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The BBC covered the Government publication of the National Security
Strategy last month with the headline UK Must Prepare for War Scenario. Often the public will hear
an alarming headline like that without reading about the context, nor what that might be for them or
what they should do about it. The government draw an academic
expertise around engaging with our constituents on this subject, such as the centre for public understanding of defence and
security at the University of Exeter?
10:12
Rt Hon Pat McFadden MP, Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster (Wolverhampton South East, Labour)
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I think the honourable member makes a very good point about
engagement with the public. Anyone who has watched the news in recent years will know that the defence
picture across Europe is changing. I made a statement to the House
earlier this week on the importance of resilience. Resilience is not
just a matter for government, element does have its responsibilities, it is a whole of society effort and it will require proper dialogue and communication
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with the public too. Question number 18.
10:13
Rt Hon Nick Thomas-Symonds MP, The Paymaster General and Minister for the Cabinet Office (Torfaen, Labour)
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Question number 18. Yesterday the Infected Blood Inquiry published an additional
Inquiry published an additional report on compensation. The Government will now urgently work to these recommendations to work
closely with the infected blood compensation authority to understand the delivery implications and of any
policy changes to their scheme. With
your permission, I hope to provide a further update to the House on this before the summer recess. 2043 people have been asked to start
their compensation claim and 616
offers of compensation having made, totalling over £488 million.
Last
week the government wrote to the public accounts and Public Administration and Constitutional Affairs Committee's, outlining the steps the Government is taking to
remove administrative barriers to
allow speed up payments.
10:13
Emma Foody MP (Cramlington and Killingworth, Labour )
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I thank the Minister boys answer and the response to yesterday's
report and I speak today of my constituents, a core participant of the inquiry who was recently invited
to start their claim. They have are specifically about those affected, such as parents of the infected and
when they will be invited to start their claims, given they have been the decades waiting for justice and
the concerns that delays mean they will not get to see it in their lifetime.
10:14
Rt Hon Nick Thomas-Symonds MP, The Paymaster General and Minister for the Cabinet Office (Torfaen, Labour)
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I understand that concern. My honourable friend is a powerful
voice for her constituents and I welcome the news her constituent has started their claim. I know many
across the House will be eager for their constituents to begin their claims as soon as possible. Including those constituents who are
affected. The Government expects payments to begin for those who are affected by the end of this year. As I've said that, government is taking steps to remove administrative
barriers to allow the speeding up of payments.
I also recognise that the
Infected Blood Inquiry has also made a recommendation on the sequencing of payments, which will be for the
infected blood compensation inquiry to consider.
10:15
Rt Hon John Glen MP (Salisbury, Conservative)
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I remain concerned that... Has never asked me, is the Minister who
was responsible for the design scheme, to account for the process I
adopted under the advice of the civil servants, that my successor,
the Minister, shares. I'm concerned now that there will be continued lack of clarity and certainty for those who have been waiting for too
long. We appointed an expert group,
on the advice, the best advice of the civil servants. We ensure there would be engagement with representatives on the 40 groups and
I met them over 18 meetings in 10
days, prior to legislation coming to this House.
I am gravely concerned that continued uncertainty through
more report writing will not serve the best interests of this community. Does the Minister agree
with me and what steps is he going to take to resolve these matters
to take to resolve these matters
10:16
Rt Hon Nick Thomas-Symonds MP, The Paymaster General and Minister for the Cabinet Office (Torfaen, Labour)
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I do pay tribute to the work of my predecessor as Paymaster General
in this area. I know the practical experience he speaks from. When I
give gave evidence to the inquiry back in May, I said that what I
back in May, I said that what I
would do is judge them on the basis of not causing further undue delay to victims who have already waited for too long. That is the approach I
will take because I look at these
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recommendations urgently, and hopefully your permission was the speaker I will update the House before the summer recess. Sir Brian Langstaff was
10:16
Clive Efford MP (Eltham and Chislehurst, Labour)
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Sir Brian Langstaff was particularly critical of the engagement with the infected and
engagement with the infected and affected communities, and since the publication of his final report in
May last year. Particularly critical of the way the expert group was set up with explicit instructions not to
engage with the community. Does my right honourable friend accept that there has been a lot of damage done
the publication of that final report, and it has exposed in the
report was published yesterday, and can say what he intends to do to improve those relationships with the
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infected and affected? I am deeply sympathetic to the
10:17
Rt Hon Nick Thomas-Symonds MP, The Paymaster General and Minister for the Cabinet Office (Torfaen, Labour)
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I am deeply sympathetic to the inquiries words on the involvement of the infected blood community. The
governorate is committed to providing fair compensation to victims of this scandal. The inquiry
has recognised this and said "There can be no doubt that the government
has done right in ways that powerful signals its intent. I recognise what Sir Brian has said he stated that
there is still more to be done to ensure that the detail and operation of the scheme matches up to its
intent.
I will be looking at those recommendations urgently with a view to action.
10:18
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Thank you Mr Speaker. My constituent Graham is a victim of
the infected blood scandal. His
experience and the length of time he has had to wait for compensation has strong parallels with another constituent of mine, Steve, who was
the last RAF officer to go to prison
for being gay. There are parallels in the amount of time waiting for
compensation for stop both constituents have suffered decades of trauma as a result. What parallels Can the minister draw in
learning about these two compensation schemes? How can we ensure in future the administration
ensure in future the administration of such compensation schemes is swifter and a better experience for those impacted? those impacted?
10:18
Rt Hon Nick Thomas-Symonds MP, The Paymaster General and Minister for the Cabinet Office (Torfaen, Labour)
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The honourable lady speaks movingly about both constituents who
have had to wait decades and far too long for justice. I think she races
a very fair point. In terms of learning from compensation schemes.
Example the Windrush Compensation Scheme that began under the last government, we have Arise in ongoing
at the moment, the infected blood, the compensation scheme is ongoing.
the compensation scheme is ongoing.
On infected blood, a test and learn approach has been used and I think that is an important approach to
take to allow us to move into a phase where we can speed up payments more quickly.
To her central point I think it is vital, I'm conscious of
this, in looking at what has been working well in other compensation
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schemes in the past. What has worked less well, being honest about that and learning from it. Topicals.
10:19
Rt Hon Pat McFadden MP, Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster (Wolverhampton South East, Labour)
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Topical one. Thank you Mr Speaker. Since our last Oral Questions session, my
last Oral Questions session, my department has announced that companies winning contracts for major infrastructure projects will
be rewarded for creating high- quality British jobs and boosting
skills in local communities. We set out our National Security Strategy
to protect security at home, remote UK strength abroad, and increase our sovereign capabilities. Earlier this week we published our resilience
action plan which included details of a new test of the national alarm
system that will come in September.
10:20
Emma Foody MP (Cramlington and Killingworth, Labour )
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I thank him for the answer. The government changes are positive for
regions like the north-east will stop Can the minister set at Cabinet
Office will support cross department work identifying test cases such as in my constituency, where the
current infrastructure is holding back housing. It needs to help the government to increase housing
growth.
10:20
Rt Hon Pat McFadden MP, Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster (Wolverhampton South East, Labour)
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Let me say my honourable friend is a brilliant champion for her
community. It is precisely because this government does want to support growth in committees like hers that
the Chancellor has set out that the new green boom will support business
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cases and rapid work is happening to deliver this in the coming months. Thank you Mr Speaker. Wullaert
10:21
Alex Burghart MP (Brentwood and Ongar, Conservative)
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Thank you Mr Speaker. Wullaert Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster confirm that civil servants should
confirm that civil servants should not engage in public fundraising for Political parties?
10:21
Rt Hon Pat McFadden MP, Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster (Wolverhampton South East, Labour)
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Mr Speaker, we all know the rules
for civil servants. I think you I referring to one person, let me
anticipate his question and so they are doing a wonderful job.
10:21
Alex Burghart MP (Brentwood and Ongar, Conservative)
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I will fill in the house for
those who are not as well-informed as he is. The simple fact is that senior civil sevens should not be
engaged in public fundraising for public speaking for blissful parties. It has been reported that
on 23 June, Lord Mandelson, who the government classifies as a senior
civil seven, spoke at a Labour fundraising event. The Chancellor of
the Duchy of Lancaster assure the House that this breach will be properly investigated and treated?
10:22
Rt Hon Pat McFadden MP, Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster (Wolverhampton South East, Labour)
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Mr Speaker I believe there has been correspondence to the cabinet secretary about this. He will reply
in due course. Let me add this, Lord Mandelson is doing an excellent job as our ambassador to the United
States. He was integral to the negotiation of the trade agreement
with the United States. And he is a great asset to the government and to
the country.
10:22
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Thank you Mr Speaker. My constituent and the is one of
several former civil servant in my constituency affected by the judgement. He is still waiting to
receive his pension, and the delay
has caused him distress. He is now facing financial hardship due to
many delays. But the Minister agreed to meet with me to discuss Andy's case and the other constituents
case and the other constituents affected who have contacted me, to ensure their cases are resolved urgently? urgently?
10:23
Georgia Gould MP, The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Queen's Park and Maida Vale, Labour)
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I was deeply sorry to hear about
Andy's circumstances I will of course meet or my honourable friend to discuss this case I have been asked to be kept personally updated
on the case following the letter from my honourable friend and the
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Cabinet Office is continuing to stress with the scheme administrator the importance of contractual performance. Thank you Mr Speaker. What steps
10:23
Alison Griffiths MP (Bognor Regis and Littlehampton, Conservative)
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Thank you Mr Speaker. What steps is the Cabinet Office taking to ensure all public bodies adopt robust cyber-security frameworks?
robust cyber-security frameworks? What is the timetable to ensure their compliance?
10:23
Rt Hon Pat McFadden MP, Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster (Wolverhampton South East, Labour)
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Mr Speaker, as I said a few moments ago, the recent cyber
attacks have been I think a wake-up call to government, business, and the whole of society was the this is
part of our national defence that is taken extremely seriously. The National Cyber Security Centre works
with victims of these attacks and gives advice in peacetime as it
were, as to how businesses can best defend themselves against rogue
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operators. Thank you Mr Speaker. I was
10:24
Leigh Ingham MP (Stafford, Labour)
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Thank you Mr Speaker. I was really made aware by a company that the UK-based lower cost bid was
the UK-based lower cost bid was passed over in favour of a higher cost overseas supplier. With the
Minister meet with me and the company to discuss current procurement policy and whether it does enough to support UK manufacturing, ensure energy
security, and net zero commitments?
10:24
Georgia Gould MP, The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Queen's Park and Maida Vale, Labour)
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Mr Speaker, I thank my honourable friend for her question. While I
can't comment on individual procurement I can say that we are
changing procurement rules to strengthen focus on British jobs and skills and to support which industries critical to our national
security like energy. We are consulting on this at the moment and I would be more than happy to meet
my honourable friend to discuss this further.
10:25
Bob Blackman MP (Harrow East, Conservative)
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It is a constant complaint from businesses in my constituency and if
they are not on the government approved list they almost can't get the government contract. What action is the Minister going to take to
make sure that new firms and new SMEs can get contracts and keep jobs in the UK?
10:25
Georgia Gould MP, The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Queen's Park and Maida Vale, Labour)
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Thank you Mr Speaker. I absolutely agree that we need to be supporting SMEs. That is why we have
targets all government departments on SME and VCSEs Ben. It is why we
are reviewing rules to make it easier for SMEs to get onto government contracts. While we are
consulting on new plans to set targets for the entire public sector on SME spend.
10:25
Euan Stainbank MP (Falkirk, Labour)
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Earlier this year the government published the national procurement statement. Given that economic
growth is the number one priority, could the Minister update the House on how this new approach to procurement deliver economic growth
in every corner of this country especially in Falkirk?
10:26
Georgia Gould MP, The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Queen's Park and Maida Vale, Labour)
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Thank you Mr Speaker. I welcome the continuing enthusiasm and support of the House for Procurement
Bill stop have listens to that are taking it seriously it is why we set
out a couple of weeks ago further changes to procurement rules to respond to all of these points about
supporting SMEs, about supporting British jobs and supporting British skills.
10:26
Rt Hon Esther McVey MP (Tatton, Conservative)
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Thank you Mr Speaker. Can Alyssa confirm the amount of money that has been saved as a result of the
changes I brought in to the equality
diversity and inclusion guidance at the civil service? Will he also say
if he will be maintaining those changes, or does he seek to overturn that policy?
10:26
Rt Hon Pat McFadden MP, Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster (Wolverhampton South East, Labour)
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Mr Speaker, I'm not seeking to overturn that. But I think we want
to have a system where we uphold the equality law that applies to the civil servant just as it applies to
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others. Further to my right honourable
10:27
Clive Efford MP (Eltham and Chislehurst, Labour)
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Further to my right honourable friend's answer regarding the contaminated blood inquiry, I
contaminated blood inquiry, I welcome the fact that he is about to update the House future when it is an opportunity to digester
yesterday's report. Can I get insurance it won't be the last they
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have sitting before we go to recess? On that, I may be in the hands of
10:27
Rt Hon Nick Thomas-Symonds MP, The Paymaster General and Minister for the Cabinet Office (Torfaen, Labour)
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On that, I may be in the hands of Mr Speaker. So I certainly will not
tread into the days I will be permitted to do so. But definitely before the summer recess.
10:27
Charlie Dewhirst MP (Bridlington and The Wolds, Conservative)
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Thank you Mr Speaker. As you are
well aware, we are the lobster capital of Europe so there is understandable outrage of that UK
decision to sell out the UK fishing industry in return for an SBS deal that is yet to be negotiated. This
is yet another example of the government being shambolic?
10:28
Rt Hon Nick Thomas-Symonds MP, The Paymaster General and Minister for the Cabinet Office (Torfaen, Labour)
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Absolutely not. What we have first of all is a multi-year deal with stability which will give the
opportunity for investment. This government is then going to invest
£360 million in Coastal Communities Alliance dating the fleet. If he is
opposed to that he should say so, sure he isn't? The SPS agreement
will allow our catch to be sold much more easily full stop 70% of it currently goes to the EU and should be welcoming that.
10:28
Tom Hayes MP (Bournemouth East, Labour)
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I welcome the UK-EU reset full
stop will help to bring down energy and grocery bills. I welcome the government's procurement plans. In
Bournemouth East we have fantastic talent in our younger population so
will the Minister outline how these new procurement plans will help to give those young people opportunities but also secure clean power in the south-west?
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Thank you Mr Speaker. We have set out plans to strengthen and
10:29
Georgia Gould MP, The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Queen's Park and Maida Vale, Labour)
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out plans to strengthen and streamline social value so we are absolutely clear about the
expectations of businesses to support jobs, skills, opportunities, and opportunities being
opportunities for young people to get into good quality work in communities like yours.
10:29
Rt Hon Sir Gavin Williamson MP (Stone, Great Wyrley and Penkridge, Conservative)
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I think the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster and myself are
politically completely at one because if it was down to the two of
us, we would relocate all the civil servant to Wolverhampton and to Staffordshire. But what is also incredibly important is actually
ministers being in those officers.
Will he commit to publishing the details of ministerial attendance in
offices outside of London, and how long they stayed in those offices?
10:29
Rt Hon Pat McFadden MP, Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster (Wolverhampton South East, Labour)
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Mr Speaker, I'm not sure I will
because I actually think racking up ministers having to be in a certain
place just to keep their published record is not the best use of their time. I very much welcome the civil
service working in Wolverhampton. The Cabinet Office has a fantastic
building in Glasgow which I have enjoyed visiting and working on several occasions.
10:30
Rt Hon David Mundell MP (Dumfriesshire, Clydesdale and Tweeddale, Conservative)
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Thank you Mr Speaker. I'm disappointed the UK covenant did not go ahead with proposals on the
Glasgow campus for the UK government. One of the reasons for that campus was to upgrade the
facilities available to the FCDO staff who are currently located in
East Kilbride. It had been identified that Abercrombie house does not have the facilities
currently to be the second headquarters of the FCDO. Will the
Chancellor of the work with the FCDO now to ensure that the investment goes into Abercrombie house to make
sure it can be a second FCDO
10:31
Rt Hon Pat McFadden MP, Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster (Wolverhampton South East, Labour)
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If his ambition is to move the staff out of East Kilbride, I
suggest he is a word with the member these. We have... We welcome both of
them. To refer to the previous question, I recently spent some time working in the office of East
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Kilbride and I hope it is a good home for civil servants for some years to come. That completes questions, I will
Urgent Urgent Question. Urgent Question. Shadow Urgent Question. Shadow Secretary Urgent Question. Shadow Secretary of State.
10:32
James Cartlidge MP (South Suffolk, Conservative)
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State. To ask the Secretary of State for defence if he will make a statement
defence if he will make a statement on the UK France nuclear
partnership.
10:32
Rt Hon Maria Eagle MP, The Minister of State, Ministry of Defence (Liverpool Garston, Labour)
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UK and France have a proud
history of cooperation on defence nuclear matters. Alongside our conventional warfighting capability,
independent strategic nuclear forces of the UK and France contribute
significantly to the overall security of the NATO Alliance and Euro-Atlantic. Since 1995, we have stated we do not see situations
rising in which a vital interest of one be threatened without the vital interest of the other also been
threatened. In 2010, both nations
agreed to share research facilities and cooperate on nuclear technology under the Lancaster House treaties.
In 2022, at Chatham House, the Defence Secretary set out the importance of rebooting Lancaster House and our defence relationship
with France and this was reaffirmed
in our 2024 Manifesto. Today, the Prime Minister and President Emmanuel Macron will agree to deepen their nuclear cooperation and work
more closely than ever before on nuclear deterrence. This is an important step forward for the UK
France nuclear partnership and reflects the significant improvement
in the relationship between our two countries that this government has driven.
The soon-to-be signed declaration will state for the first
time that the respective deterrence
of both countries are independent but can be coordinated. The declaration will also affirm that there is no extreme threat to Europe
that would not prompt a response by both nations. As such, any adversary
threatening the vital interests of Britain or France could be
confronted by the strength of the nuclear forces of both nations. Cooperation between countries nuclear research will also deepen,
while working together to uphold the international non-proliferation market tension.
Further details will
follow after today's agreement. In an increasingly volatile and complex global security environment,
exemplified by Russia's you -- what
aggression in Ukraine, a war on the European continent, the UK and France as Europe's two nuclear powers are united in our determination were closer than ever
before on nuclear deterrence. It is a manifesto commitment, promise made and a promise kept and yet another example of how this Government is
delivering for...
10:34
James Cartlidge MP (South Suffolk, Conservative)
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Taking for granted this Urgent Question, I think these are such
incredibly substantive matters not have a statement for the government today, TAF divided out overnight from the press. On this side of the
House, just to be clear, we back our nuclear deterrent 100% and have never wavered on that. We support
steps that boost the resilience of our nuclear enterprise, diversify
livery and a bubble help Al Khor class D to remain a cornerstone of
our homeland defence against the most extreme threat.
We also welcome steps to genuinely strengthen UK France cooperation defence, building
on Lancaster House in particular, having been the government that first authorised provision of Storm
shadow Mrs Ukraine, we also recognise the urgent need to
replenish our own Storm shadow stock which is in the press release. Can the Minister affirm if we are placing orders for new Storm shadow
missiles or simply reconditioning resisting stocks? The nuclear aspect of this is by far the most
significant. Can the Minister confirm where this will lead the operationally independent and sovereign nature of our existing
Trident nuclear deterrent? The Telegraph quoted the declaration which of course we have not seen,
that both nuclear arsenals, "Remain independent but can be coordinated
and that there is no extreme threat to Europe that would not prompt a
response by both nations." Does this mean that our respective national deterrence will now be jointly
operationally delivered and how will that coordination take place in
practice? Crucially, how does this new nuclear doctrine affect NATO and
our very close cooperation on nuclear deterrence with the United States? Will France now be offering
its nuclear deterrent to NATO as we do and perhaps most importantly,
will France be joining the NATO nuclear planning group? On the matter of tactical nuclear weapons, I have previously asked about
options other than US -controlled gravity bombs with no reply.
Given the announcement on Storm shadow and
MBDA, will be UK and France now be looking at cooperation on tactical nuclear delivery options via our
shared complex weapons industrial base? Particular concern on our side is that there appears to be a deep
paradox that they hear. To close a corporation with France in the back and the government is still getting away on access to hard cash and
European rearmament fund, despite having given up our sovereign fishing... To conclude, it is truly
extraordinary that such significant
defence developers do not warrant a government statement, so the Minister must now be as transparent
as possible in answering our questions, not least after weeks dominated by smoke and mirrors on defence spending and chaotic U-turns
on welfare that raise the most profound questionable, where is the money going to come from? -- Profound question of all.
10:37
Rt Hon Maria Eagle MP, The Minister of State, Ministry of Defence (Liverpool Garston, Labour)
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There has not been a statement yet because the agreement has not
been signed yet. And in fact... If the honourable gentlemen would like to listen to the reply... The
agreement has not been signed yet,
sooner set is signed... I'm sure as soon as it is signed, Mr Speaker...
The honourable gentlemen has had his questions, which he has asked, I
would like to try and answer them now instead of heckling me too much. Although it is obviously up to him
how he behaves, Mr Speaker.
It will be up to you, Mr Speaker, indeed. He
asked whether or not the idea that we should work more closely together
with France, independent but can be coordinated, was a phrase that he
particularly referred to, whether
that means there is any implications for the independence of Trident, the answer is no. Our class the
operations are entirely unaffected.
-- Class D. This is not a new doctrine, and you nuclear doctrine on behalf of the UK. Our nuclear doctrine is the same as it ever has
been.
-- A new nuclear doctrine. Our nuclear deterrent in any
circumstances can only be authorised by the Prime Minister, that remains the case. The French have their own
arrangements for how they authorise there's, a matter for them. This
agreement requires no coordination
in that respect. What it says is that there is an opportunity when
vital interests are affected for coordination between both nations,
in the way which they respond. And I think that just strengthens the power of the deterrent across
Europe, when both nations that are nuclear powers can actually
coordinate their responses.
It strengthens the deterrent against
our potential enemies by making it clear that the two nations will act
in coordination, rather than entirely separately. He asked about
whether or not this has any implication about whether our
deterrent is still dedicated to NATO, it does not, I'll deterrent is
of course still dedicated to the defence of NATO. He referred again
to tactical nuclear delivery
options, tactical nuclear... I do not know if he meant tactical nuclear weapons development in what
he was asking.
This Government does not see any use of any kind of nuclear weapons as tactical. And we
are not proposing in this agreement to develop any new kinds of nuclear
weapons, it is about coordinating
the options that we have together, to make Europe and the North
Atlantic stronger.
10:40
Alex Baker MP (Aldershot, Labour)
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I welcome today's agreement that
is in train, as a powerful signal that Britain is once again stepping up to be a reliable European ally,
with deeper UK France coordination nuclear deterrence, marking a step change in how we engage with our
closest partners. This is not just a diplomatic milestone, it has real
potential to reset relations, strengthening European security and driving long-term investment into our industrial base. As someone who
is the keenest champion of our sovereign capability and resilience
supply chains, particularly in my own constituency, can I ask the
Minister how this partnership will be used to maximise opportunities for UK industry? Ensuring we can build the skills, infrastructure and
capacity needed to keep our deterrent credible for decades to
come.
10:41
Rt Hon Maria Eagle MP, The Minister of State, Ministry of Defence (Liverpool Garston, Labour)
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Mr Speaker, can I thank my
honourable friend for her question.
This effort on our coordinating our nuclear deterrence between the UK
and France is in the context of a refresh of the Lancaster helps treaties -- Lancaster House
treaties. There are provisions in
that, not only about nuclear deterrent but also about our conventional forces, coordinating
them, and also coordinating efforts throughout industries, to make sure we can manufacture new and future
proofed complex weapons that will
assist in deterring potential adversaries who would threaten Europe.
And so this is in the
context of an entire agreement, refreshed agreement that should
strengthen both our conventional forces and our capacity call --
capacity to coordinate between our militaries, as well as coordination
of our nuclear deterrent.
10:42
Calum Miller MP (Bicester and Woodstock, Liberal Democrat)
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Liberal Democrats have consistently said that the UK security depends on deeper defence
cooperation without European allies. So we welcome the progress but urge
the government to go further. Nuclear coordination between the UK and France can help deter Putin and
support Europe's collective's. This is particularly critical as Donald Trump has shown that our security is
no longer his concern. France cherishes the independence of its nuclear system, as the Minister has confirmed. Can she provide further
details on exactly how this new system of coordinating nuclear deterrence will work? The Government
must go further.
Can the Minister update the House on whether the government has secured full access
for UK defence firms to the EU security action for your fund? As
Putin escalates his attacks against civilian targets in key and other cities, we must work with allies to support Ukraine? Will the government
used today's coalition of the willing talks to confirm how the UK and France can seize Russia's frozen
assets held in our two countries? -- In the Kyiv.
10:43
Rt Hon Maria Eagle MP, The Minister of State, Ministry of Defence (Liverpool Garston, Labour)
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Can I thank the honourable gentlemen for his support for deeper
defence coordination. The coordination of our nuclear
deterrence, it says there is no extreme threat to Europe would not
prompt a response by our two nations. But France and the UK
remain to sovereign nuclear weapon states -- two sovereign nuclear weapon states, and the decision-
making processes are independent.
There will be increased coordination of research and development and of
the cooperation we have been
engaging in since the Chequers announcement from 1995.
That will be
deepened. And there will be a
coordinating committee between the Elysse and the Cabinet Office that
will make a... Be a joint
arrangement for deciding on precisely how and what extra research or extra training that we
might do. So there will be increasing coordination of that effort. But I would like to stress
that our decision-making arrangements remain completely
independent. But that both nations recognise that there is no extreme
threat to Europe that would not prompt a response by our two nations
and vital interests are the same in
that respect.
In terms of access to those EU funds, there are negotiations ongoing but they are
not completed but we hope... One would hope that there will be progress that will be made. I cannot
quite recall the point honourable gentlemen made... I have got nothing
further to say today on that, he
probably would not expect me to
10:45
Barry Gardiner MP (Brent West, Labour)
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Is the Minister as surprised as I was to find that the opposition
spokesperson only half quoted that
sentence from the report? Talking about making it clear that no
extreme threat to European security would go unanswered by both countries. But failed to actually look at the real issue, that it
signals a strength in deterrent posture as Russia has repeated threats to use nuclear weapons.
Would my honourable friend agree with me that actually what this
shows is that the relationship which was damaged by Brexit, is now being
recreated by this government, and the AUKUS packed, the defence
cooperation is now a clear priority for this government with the
European Union and it is embodied in this new relationship with France?
10:46
Rt Hon Maria Eagle MP, The Minister of State, Ministry of Defence (Liverpool Garston, Labour)
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I thank my honourable friend for
the point that he has made. I
suppose I should say that I'm surprised that the onward gentlemen only quoted half of the sentence but it is probably not the first
opposition spokesperson, if indeed that is the case in the history of oppositions in this house. I do
oppositions in this house. I do
That we have is a strengthening of the deterrent across Europe that will help deter potential
adversaries from conducting themselves in a way that might
threaten nations.
10:47
Ben Obese-Jecty MP (Huntingdon, Conservative)
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I welcome the announcement of strict collaboration with France
although reading between the lines it seems that coordination is really
suffering controlled. The NATO nuclear mission is still a decade away with completion not scheduled
until 2033. Both the French marine
national and others are armed as part of their force. Is this nuclear
strike capability in the scope of this agreement? If so how will it be
incorporated as an escalation step prior to the use of Trident? Does this form an interim solution while we await the capability to fully
anticipate in the NATO commission?
10:48
Rt Hon Maria Eagle MP, The Minister of State, Ministry of Defence (Liverpool Garston, Labour)
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The honourable gentleman complaint about the amount of time it has taken this government to do
things in respect of defence but we had to pick up the mess that was left by his government that was in
office for 14 years. So I think it is a bit of a cheek him to complain
about to lay when the reality is that his own government did nothing
for 14 years. I have made it quite
clear that our defence new posture isn't changing.
That we are not seeking to acquire new and different
nuclear-weapons, but that if the
vital interests of the UK and France are engaged, are threatened, then we
will coordinate the response. We will coordinate our nuclear response
as a result of this agreement. That provides a greater deterrent.
10:49
Chris McDonald MP (Stockton North, Labour)
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Thank you Mr Speaker. Much stronger relationship between the UK
and France in this area will require a deepening of our commercial collaborations in respect of industrial bases particularly in the
supply chain. I wonder if the Minister could comment on how the government owned procurement policies help to support this
collaboration to clearly as it might impact on, or benefits, companies in
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the Teesside cluster? Mr Speaker, my honourable friend
10:49
Rt Hon Maria Eagle MP, The Minister of State, Ministry of Defence (Liverpool Garston, Labour)
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Mr Speaker, my honourable friend is correct. The refresh of the Lancaster House treaty is not just about nuclear cooperation. It is
about nuclear cooperation. It is also about the cooperation between
our conventional forces and greater cooperation and effort between our industries bilaterally provide us
with things like complex weapons in a way that will deter and enable us
to defend ourselves at thresholds well below any nuclear threshold. My
honourable friend is right. Any increase, as we are seeing in defence spending, does give more
opportunities for our own industries, whether they are
offering novel technology or dual use technology, or our traditional
ones, they offer more opportunities for all of them to help us in our rearmament.
10:50
Bob Blackman MP (Harrow East, Conservative)
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I understand that the ink may not
be dry on this agreement yet and clearly the Minister can only answer what she is aware of. But she
mentioned the use of a committee to make decisions, so who will chair this committee, what is the membership, and how will decisions
be made if there is a disagreement between our allies and France and
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ourselves? Mr Speaker, our respective
10:51
Rt Hon Maria Eagle MP, The Minister of State, Ministry of Defence (Liverpool Garston, Labour)
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Mr Speaker, our respective national authorities will remain responsible for planning and
conducting operations. The UK front nuclear steering group will be established to provide political
direction for increased coordination across nuclear policy capabilities
and operations. That would be joined
with something which has authority over nuclear weapons in France and The Cabinet Office which will be
cooperating. To
10:51
Johanna Baxter MP (Paisley and Renfrewshire South, Labour)
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I welcome my honourable friend's response this morning, and greater
collaboration between the UK and France with this nuclear
partnership. Because it not only enhances our nation's security, but has the potential to deliver high
lease highly paid jobs to every nation and region across the country. I wonder if my honourable
Friend could say a little more about how those benefits will be realised in Scotland?
10:52
Rt Hon Maria Eagle MP, The Minister of State, Ministry of Defence (Liverpool Garston, Labour)
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Mr Speaker, the honourable Lady
is correct that the Strategic Defence Review and our ongoing commitment to increasing defence
spending in this country does give opportunity for our industry to
benefit and to obtain contracts and assist us in making sure that we can
defend our nation and NATO more fully, and are better going forward.
There will be jobs, skilled
opportunities, and growth in all parts of the nations and the UK.
10:52
Richard Foord MP (Honiton and Sidmouth, Liberal Democrat)
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The threats and the nuclear sabre rattling that we have heard from
President Putin since Russia's full-scale invasion of Ukraine is utterly unacceptable. The response
from the British and French governments has been robust. For me,
defence cooperation between the UK and France is was welcome. Will our government also seek to get a
reaffirmation from other P5 countries including Russia of the Reagan Gorbachev formula that a
nuclear war cannot be won and must never be fought?
10:53
Rt Hon Maria Eagle MP, The Minister of State, Ministry of Defence (Liverpool Garston, Labour)
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I thank the honourable gentleman
for his support for this extra coordination for top the aim of all of this is to make sure that NATO
and Europe are safe from the threats
that may come from Putin and his nuclear sabre rattling, as the honourable gentleman has referred
to. We believe that deterring those
threats is the best way going forward to make sure that we don't end up having to fight a war that
would be catastrophic.
And so that is where we are at present. I'm not sure President Putin is in the mood
at the moment to agree because he does issue nuclear threat every now and again. I'm not sure he's in the mood to agree that nuclear wars
cannot be one. What we need to do is make sure that he is deterred in his
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approach. Thank you Mr Speaker. As the two
10:54
Greg Smith MP (Mid Buckinghamshire, Conservative)
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Thank you Mr Speaker. As the two bedrock is about national defence, our own sovereign capability and a membership of NATO of course the UK
membership of NATO of course the UK and France are both members of NATO but as the shadow Secretary of State pointed out, the paradox is that we
and every other NATO member bar one are members of the NATO nuclear
planning group. Of course that bar
one is France. As part of these discussions, are France going to join that NATO nuclear planning group? If they are not, how on earth
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is this coordination going to work within that partnership? I am not here to speak for the
10:55
Rt Hon Maria Eagle MP, The Minister of State, Ministry of Defence (Liverpool Garston, Labour)
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I am not here to speak for the French government. As far as I'm concerned, our nuclear posture has
concerned, our nuclear posture has not changed. There nuclear posture is a matter for them. What's this
agreement says is that there is no
extreme threat to Europe that would not prompt response by our two nations. Although we both
independently look after and are responsible for our deterrents, we
believe coordinating potential
responses in this way provides a greater deterrent for Europe and for NATO, that is the basis of this agreement.
10:55
James Wild MP (North West Norfolk, Conservative)
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Thank you Mr Speaker. Our deepest and closest relationship nuclear
deterrent is clearly with the United States. The minute to confirm how this agreement will affect that
crucial relationship for our security?
10:56
Rt Hon Maria Eagle MP, The Minister of State, Ministry of Defence (Liverpool Garston, Labour)
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Mr Speaker, it doesn't change our very close relationship with the
Americans, in line with NATO's
strategic concept. The strategic forces of the US, UK, and France, or
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contribute significant lead to the overall security of the alliance. There is no reason that should continue to be the case. Thank you Mr Speaker. I always
10:56
Jim Shannon MP (Strangford, Democratic Unionist Party)
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Thank you Mr Speaker. I always
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Thank you Mr Speaker. I always expect to be last. Just chipped in head of my colleague for top can I thank the Minister for the answers to the questions. We very much
to the questions. We very much welcome the news that we are to enhance our nuclear program.
Security can only be good for our whole nation. However the estimations that I have heard still
put an nuclear capability well below the threat of Russia. How can we
continue to build our nuclear capability? And how can Northern Ireland play a part in that work?
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The Minister is was committed to helping Northern Ireland. I'm keen to hear how that will work. Thank you Mr Speaker. The
10:57
Rt Hon Maria Eagle MP, The Minister of State, Ministry of Defence (Liverpool Garston, Labour)
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Thank you Mr Speaker. The honourable gentleman is usually last but never least. And he's not even
but never least. And he's not even last on this occasion. I agree with
him that it is important that we
strengthen the credibility of our deterrents, which is why we are
committed to building the four
replacement boats that carry our
deterrents. Up to 12 SSN's to SSN- AUKUS. We are doubling the drumbeat
over time of our construction of submarines.
And I think that sends a
pretty powerful signal to potential
adversaries that our capacity to defend it and use it will be
significant strengthen over the coming period of time. I'm glad to see I have found general support in this House which I welcome.
10:58
Robin Swann MP (South Antrim, Ulster Unionist Party)
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Thank you Mr Speaker. The Minister referenced the political steering group that will be set up.
Can I ask, are there any concerns within government or the MoD about
the sharing of intelligent with what will be a separate political steering group that will sit
outside?
10:58
Rt Hon Maria Eagle MP, The Minister of State, Ministry of Defence (Liverpool Garston, Labour)
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The steering group is for political policy-making rather than intelligence faces stop I'm sure
appropriate arrangements will be made for any such issue. I don't anticipate there will be a problem.
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Point of order.
10:58
James Cartlidge MP (South Suffolk, Conservative)
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If I may seek your guidance on how to set the record straight following the question, before Brent North Minister criticised the fact
that only partially referred to a quote from the declaration. Just to be clear, I have not seen the
declaration. It was leaked to the media overnight. That was all I could read from and I'm none the wiser...
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Please. You have made the point
10:59
Mr Speaker
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it is on the record. Let's move on. We now come to Business Questions.
10:59
Business Statement: Business Questions to the Leader of the House
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Shadow Leader of the House. Thank you Mr Speaker. Would the
10:59
Rt Hon Jesse Norman MP (Hereford and South Herefordshire, Conservative)
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Thank you Mr Speaker. Would the leader give the House forthcoming business?
10:59
Rt Hon Lucy Powell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Manchester Central, Labour )
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business? Thank you Mr Speaker. The business for the week commencing 14th of July includes, Monday 14th
14th of July includes, Monday 14th July, Committee of the whole House for the remaining stages of the
deprivation of citizenship and affects appeal bill. Followed by the
Chairman of Ways and Means who is expected to name Private business
for consideration Tuesday 15th of July, Opposition Day, night allotted day, debate and emotion in the name of the Official Opposition subject
to be announced.
Wednesday 16th of July, second reading of the property
digital assets etc lords. Followed
by debate on emotion related to the
the standard report on Register of Members' Interests. Followed by general debate on giving every child
the best start in life. Thursday 17th of July, general debate on the global plastics treaty fuller by
general debate on ageing community
and end-of-life care. Subjects for these debates were determined by the Backbench Business Committee. Friday, 18 July, the house will not
be sitting.
The provisional business for the week commencing 21st of July
will include, Monday 21st of July, general debate on the 80th anniversary of Victory over Japan
Day. Tuesday 22nd of July, the Sir
David Amess summer adjournment debates. The subject for this debate was determined by the Backbench
Business Committee. The house will rise for the summer recess at the conclusion of business on Tuesday
22nd of July and return on Monday first of September.
11:01
Rt Hon Jesse Norman MP (Hereford and South Herefordshire, Conservative)
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I am not going to let this moment pass and I'm sure no colleague would
wish me to without reminding everyone again that this week marks
the 20th anniversary of the seven / seven bombings. Seventh of July, 2005. In which 52 people were killed
in four separate attacks and 700 more were injured, many of them
previously. I know the whole house
will want to join me in mourning the victims of these dreadful crimes and in sending all our best wishes to
their families and loved ones.
-- Many of them previously. Are we on
the subject of anniversaries, the house will need no reminding that 2025 is 760 as since Simon the
Mumford convened the first representative of Parliament and perhaps even more significantly that
this year marks 800 years since the
1225, when the charter we now know as Magna Carter was agreed as a statute Andy became the first of all our statutes. To that extent, it is
1225 and not 1215 should be recognised as the birthdate of Magna
recognised as the birthdate of Magna
Carta.
Very pleased to hear that... Wide array of support from the House, thank you, important point I
thought to put on the record. For this government, of course, the past week marks on anniversary of a somewhat less glorious and happy
kind, its first full year in office.
So as a House, it. Us to ask first of all how has the government done? It would be right to focus in the
first place on its shockingly negligent and abusive treatment of
our Northern Ireland veterans.
But that is the topic of Westminster Hall debates next Monday. So let us
focus on wider issues. Labour pledged to deliver the highest
economic growth in the G7. In reality, UK growth has failed even
to beat the G7 average. It promised to meet NHS waiting list targets for 92% of patients, but the current
figure stands 59.8%, just one percentage point better than a year ago. It vowed to smash the boats and
the boat gangs, yet small boat migrant numbers are up almost 50%
compared to this time last year.
So
perhaps we can forget the pledges. How then is the UK economy actually done? We know that OBR's growth
forecast has been cut to just 1%, inflation is higher than a year ago, unemployment stands at its highest for four years. And so diminished is the Government standing in this
national markets, the Institute for
Fiscal Studies recently pointed out, the UK now faces higher borrowing costs than almost all other
comparable countries. Two full percentage point higher than Germany and higher even in Greece and Italy.
I'm afraid to say the government has stored up more pain to come. The
junior doctors have now voted in favour of further strikes through the autumn and into the New Year.
They had a 22% increase last year, the house will recall, and I now look into their labour brothers and sisters were scarcely believable
further 29%. That is before you include their pensions. As the
wildly overrated and I remember van
said he had done in 1938. -- Nye Bevan.
And I'm quoting Bevan's words in relation to the GPs in 1948, that
he had stuff in mouths with gold and
they are already coming back for more. And what is the media reaction been to all of this? Internationally the Economist described the Prime
the Economist described the Prime
Minister's first year as wasted, time called it a catalogue of errors. The normally sympathetic New York Times commented that Britain's
Prime Minister is fading away before our eyes. Even supported British newspapers have not been able to disguise their dismay.
The
'Financial Times' has bewailed labours drift, the Guardian its lack
of vision. Not my words, but those of some of the most respected newspapers in the world. But finally
we can asked what do the poor suffering public make of all this.
We know what a laser focus 10 Downing Street keeps on the poles, it will have not escaped their notice that the Prime Minister's
approval rating is now -35%. No Government in recent times has ever
lost public support after an election faster than this one.
How mortified the Prime Minister must be
to be wrenched back almost weekly from the perfume chancellery's of Europe to the grim realities of
domestic politics. We need not dwell on the priorities and pomposity is
of labours pronouncement about stability and trust before the July
2024 election, these are the facts, they speak for themselves and they say only this, must do better, a lot
better.
11:06
Rt Hon Lucy Powell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Manchester Central, Labour )
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Sorry, Mr Speaker, just lost my
opening page there. Can I first of all join the shadow leader in
marking the 20th anniversary of the 77 bombing, a day I think we all
remember well and I'm sure the whole house want to remember all those who died and actually all those who
survived and all those who were affected by it. And can I also just take this opportunity to welcome the
newly announced new director of the
ICGS, the highly qualified Miriam Minty, who will be starting in
September.
As the shadow leader said, this week we welcomed the
French president state visit to the UK. And I have to say, I thought his address to both Houses on Tuesday
was excellent and historic. Can I
thank you, Mr Speaker, and your team and all those involved in organising it. I thought it underlined the deep and enduring relationship between
our two great countries. The visit concludes today with a summit and I
will ensure the House is updated at the earliest opportunity on any
agreements that we come to as part
of that.
I have to say, it is a bit galling, week in week out, but the honourable gentlemen raises the
proposed strike action by the doctors. Which of course is
extremely disappointing and strike action that we do not think is at
all necessary. Because when the NHS is finally moving in the right
direction, the strikes will put that recovery at risk, affecting patients and letting down our collective
obligations to those we are here to serve. We have delivered a very generous pay settlement but we are
keen to work constructively.
And the door of the Secretary of State
remains open, he will be and how
shortly. This is a very different approach to what the Conservatives left us. They left the NHS on its
knees, waiting list at a record high, over half a million appointments and operations cancelled due to strike action in
just one year. It was not just the doctors, the rail strikes cost the economy over £1 billion, the teacher strikes lost 600 teaching days in
one year and they went to war with public sector workers week in week out.
I did notice though that the
Leader of the Opposition today is giving a speech, talking about the ticking timebomb that has been left.
To write it is a ticking timebomb,
it is fair ticking timebomb and we all know that they left mines all
over the place and we are coming
along having to sweep them out. It gives me the opportunity, he wants to know about how our first year in office is going, I am happy to tell
him.
Because we promised 2 million extra NHS appointments and we have delivered one million more than
that. We said we would get waiting list down and they are coming down
month on month. Interest rates are coming down and net migration is coming down from a record high that
they left it. We have secured three trade deals, trade deals they once held but never delivered and we have
got them going. We have created nearly 400,000 jobs, new jobs since
the election, we recruited an extra 3,000 new police officers, we built
nearly 200,000 new homes, establish Great British Energy, extended the Warm Home Discount to 6 million more households, expanded free school
meals for half a million more children, open free breakfast clubs.
We banned water bosses bonuses. Who have been polluting our rivers. And wages grew more in our first 10
months in office than they did in
their last 10 years in office. I am happy to debate him any time on our record. So thank him for that
opportunity to do that today. But I do have to feel slightly sorry for
the shadow leader, coming here week in week out, when it is just going from bad to worse for the
Conservative party isn't it? Perhaps that is why he has to go so into deep history as part of his speeches
because he does not want to talk about recent history.
But it is one of the first up this morning after a
big defection overnight, let's be honest. The latest in a long line of those fleeing this sinking ship. I
personally would not put Jake Berry, best friend of Boris Johnson and former chair of the Conservative party, I would not put him down as a
likely defector, actually. It really is that bad for them, isn't it? But I could not have put it better myself than what Jake had to say
about it. And I will give a Little quote to the House, if you like.
We
have got a Conservative Party that does not seem to know what it is down for any more. They have lost their way, they have abandoned their
principles, they have abandoned the British people. He is right, isn't
he, Mr Speaker? But having said that, I think we cannot pass this
by. This defection does not make up for what has actually been a
terrible week for the Reform party either. Especially when it comes to H are matters, shall we say. The bigger story for reform this week as
they really are becoming the party of sleaze and scandal and dud and
dodgy personnel.
It is not really the right moment I don't think to
start ditching your vetting procedures, don't you think, Mr
Speaker? And even though they have only got a handful, group of a handful of MPs, there Chief Whip seems to have had a busier week than
ours, that is saying something. But I'm not sure if the Reform Party will welcome our partnership with the French on tackling small boats
this week. But when it comes to their own party, they are already really enthusiastically implementing
really enthusiastically implementing
a policy of one in, one out.
a policy of one in, one out.
11:12
Markus Campbell-Savours MP (Penrith and Solway, Labour)
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EDM 1496 sets out how Samuel Aled
bought a courthouse for a knockdown price and ignoring professional advice, allow the listed building to collapse into the River Cocker. So
it's disappointing to hear radio Cumbria this morning continuing to
blame the council. My message to Mr
Ahmed, publisher plans, prove you can finance them and quick before the town floods through your inaction. Would the Leader of the
House agree that a debate on council powers to deal with greedy incompetent property speculators is
well overdue?
11:13
Rt Hon Lucy Powell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Manchester Central, Labour )
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Can I thank him for raising this
very important case in his constituency. He is absolutely right, we need more accountability and we need the communities to have more powers over these important
vital local assets. That is exactly what we will be doing when we introduce the devolution and
introduce the devolution and
community assets bill later today.
11:13
Marie Goldman MP (Chelmsford, Liberal Democrat)
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Mr Speaker, yesterday, LBC
published a month long investigative story into special educational needs. It shockingly revealed that families have been sent legal cease-and-desist letters in attempts
by some schools and local authorities to deter parents from
seeking Education, Health and Care Plans for their children with special educational needs and disabilities. The report uncovered
that some parents and the independent SEND advocates assisting them have been threatened legal action and being reported to the
police in plea for daring to ask questions about SEND provision the children are entitled to but which
is not being delivered.
Let's be very clear, SEND children and
families have a legal right to support and I'm sure the whole house will agree that attempting to prevent or limit the provision of
such assistance, particularly through intimidator tactics, is
completely unacceptable. We all know the SEND system is fundamentally broken and reform is needed. That is
why the Liberal Democrats set out our five principles for SEND reform in England yesterday. Principle
number one is entering that children and families voices are at the heart of the reform process.
Indeed, the Prime Minister said yesterday he
wants to work with parents and teachers to get this right. So will
the Leader of the House ask the Secretary of State to bring forward a statement explaining exactly how
their voices are being not just heard but understood as part of the
SEND reform process? And will she join me in condemning the outrageous practice of issuing legal threats to
parents who are simply trying to do their best for their children?
11:15
Rt Hon Lucy Powell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Manchester Central, Labour )
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Can I thank her for raising this very important issue, which I know
that she and many in her party care
that she and many in her party care
deeply about, as do many on, most on this side of the House as well. As she said, I think this widely accepted we have inherited a SEND
system in crisis and I think any parent or any constituency MP who has been supporting families through this system knows that it is broken
and that it needs addressing.
I will join her in highlighting the LBC investigation, which I think really
did shine a light on some of these issues. Just in terms of the
process, I can reassure her we absolutely want to and will build
consensus on these issues. And we have been very clear about that, we are going to be working with
parents, with teachers, with campaigners, those right across the system and professionals as well. So
we can develop those reforms and fix the system that is much-needed.
We
will continue to have those very engaged dialogue over the summer before we publish a White Paper in
the autumn. And of course, that
White Paper will be then followed by all the colour processes that normally follow a White Paper and all the discussions about that and I
will ensure the House is updated
will ensure the House is updated
11:16
Natasha Irons MP (Croydon East, Labour)
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Is a time when 26% of the women
STEM is women, I am proud that the school in my constituency will become the first all girls school to
design build and launch into space.
Following a successful test this month, they are testament to what is possible and encourage our girls to reach for the stars. Will that
Leader of the House join me in congratulating the team on their pioneering work? Was he allowed time
for debate on how we can open up more opportunities to girls in science, technology and engineering opportunity?
11:17
Rt Hon Lucy Powell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Manchester Central, Labour )
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As a STEM graduates myself, I
endorse what she is saying. I think that girls are often better at
science and maths in many ways but they just don't pick it. So I strongly congratulate the team and
the school in her constituency, and
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would encourage all of those goals involved to get into a career in science, engineering, and technology. Chairman of the backbench
11:17
Bob Blackman MP (Harrow East, Conservative)
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committee. I thank the leader for announcing the business in the chamber. If she could look forward to a September
could look forward to a September sitting to give us early date, it will help us plan those sittings and
debate in the chamber. In addition to the business that leader has
announced, in Westminster Hall, on Tuesday next week, there will be a debate on SEND provision in the
south-east. On Thursday the 17th, a debate on the role of freedom of
religion or belief in UK foreign policy followed by a debate on the role of the RAF photographic
reconnaissance unit during the Second World War.
On Tuesday 22nd, there will be a debate on Black
Country day. We are planning of course for the September sitting,
and having debate on 4 September on adoption and guardianship support
fund followed by a debate on the future of terrestrial TV. Earlier
this year, I raised the plight of minority groups in Bangladesh.
Yesterday I hosted a seminar where we heard from representatives of the
Indian Christian Buddhist and Omadi
communities who are all under direct attack Bangladesh.
A couple of weeks I referred to the celebrations in
Harrow. In Bangladesh, they were attacked by Islamist thugs who
disgracefully destroyed that wonderful peaceful procession. Equally, the interim government in
Bangladesh has failed to announce the dates of the general election when a proper democratic government
will be elected in Bangladesh. Could the leader arrange for a statement
to be made next week by the foreign office ministers on what we will do
to put pressure on Bangladesh to make sure we safeguard minorities?
11:19
Rt Hon Lucy Powell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Manchester Central, Labour )
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As ever, can I thank him for announcing some really important
forthcoming debate. I will certainly do my best to give as much advanced notice as possible on some of the opportunities coming up in
September. He raises a very important issue around the freedom
of religious expression and belief. It normally comes later in the
session but I'm glad to see he is doing that today as well. He will note that we are in constant
dialogue with the interim Bangladesh
government.
And we made very clear the importance of upholding freedom of religious beliefs and protecting
all communities. We will continue that engagement, and I will ensure
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that the House is kept updated. Thank you Mr Speaker. I can't
11:20
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Thank you Mr Speaker. I can't help but note that the defection of my predecessor Jake Berry has been
my predecessor Jake Berry has been greeted in my contingency as bad
news for Reform. I was informed this week the Reform led Lancashire Council are going to cut £3 million
Council are going to cut £3 million from the county education budget, but significantly reducing support
but significantly reducing support for nurseries. This is despite increased childcare funding from
increased childcare funding from this Labour government.
I am in contact with several managers who have made clear that this will
result in increased costs for parents or even closures. If these are efficiencies, increasing costs and stress for young families, then
and stress for young families, then we should be deeper concern. Myself and other Labour MPs have written to the leader of the county council in
the leader of the county council in the strongest possible terms and asking them to think again. The
asking them to think again. The leaders share our concerns and will she agree to a debate on this?
11:21
Rt Hon Lucy Powell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Manchester Central, Labour )
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Having visited a number of schools in the constituency over the years I know of the amazing work that they do to provide children in
his constituency with the very best start in life. It is something this government is committed to
supporting and increasing and ensuring that all young people can get the best start in life. I am
shocked to hear that the new Reform county council are planning on
closing these. This is a wrong step, a retrograde step, and something
they should rethink.
He is right to point out that his predecessor, the
former member, is now a member of Reform. I think you might have ambitions may be to put himself
forward possibly as a mayor of Lancashire in the forthcoming
elections. I also member that's a member joining me in a former APPG
on nursery schools in wanting to keep the Rossendale nurseries open. Perhaps he might start his new
career in that Reform party telling them to stop this decision straight away?
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Mr Speaker, can I firstly had my tribute to my late friend Lord
11:22
Andrew Rosindell MP (Romford, Conservative)
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tribute to my late friend Lord Tebbit of Chingford? He was one of the finest parliamentarians and a
man of great courage and patriotism. We own him so much for what he did
for our country. He was also a victim of terrorism, as Mr Speaker you will know. This week I had the privilege of representing my
constituency at the 20 year commemoration service, 77 bombing at
the cathedral. Those of us who were in London and Westminster on 7 July
2005, it brought back the sheer horror of what took place on that dreadful day.
Yet the 52 people that
lost their lives, and countless others who were mentally and physically scarred, the suffering was beyond imaginable. A constituent
of mine at the time lost both his legs and an eye in the attack. He has been battling that trauma ever
since. I asked the Leader of the House, would she please speak to the
Home Secretary and ask her to heed
Dan's call for a full public inquiry
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on 7/7, and give victims the justice, compensation, closure they rightly deserve? First of all can I pay tribute to
11:24
Rt Hon Lucy Powell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Manchester Central, Labour )
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First of all can I pay tribute to Lord Tebbit who was someone who I grew up very familiar with as a
grew up very familiar with as a leading politician of the day. Whilst I disagreed with him on most
things politically, I rated him as a politician who had a clear agenda
and was really able to take those things forward in the way that many
others were not. I recognise the challenge that he faced, and many
others, as the MP for Manchester Central, I also represent those that have been the victims of terrorist
attacks.
I understand greatly the calls for answers, cause for truth and justice, and the calls for
compensation. I will ensure that he gets full response from the Home
Secretary about the issues he raises.
11:24
Luke Myer MP (Middlesbrough South and East Cleveland, Labour)
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Thank you Mr Speaker. The vice principal at an academy in my constituency is retiring after 30
years of service as a schoolteacher including as one of my old teachers. I wonder if the Leader of the House were jointly paying tribute to
Douglas for 30 years of educating people in the constituency and pay tribute to teachers all across the
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country? What a fine job he did. And I am
11:25
Rt Hon Lucy Powell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Manchester Central, Labour )
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What a fine job he did. And I am sure he is incredibly proud that one of his former pupils is now a Member
of his former pupils is now a Member of Parliament. So I join him in thanking him for a great life of
service, and all the wonderful students I'm sure he has taught over the years.
11:25
Tessa Munt MP (Wells and Mendip Hills, Liberal Democrat)
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Thank you Mr Speaker. Three weeks ago I asked about the long overdue
final delivery plan and the Leader of the House acknowledged the strength of feeling on this issue
and reference the NHS 10 year plan has been published but makes no
mention whatsoever of ME. The Department of Health and social care has raised expectations that the
final plan would be published by the end of June that deadline has come and gone. This is appallingly just
respectful to those suffering from ME and the continuing delays caused unnecessary distress in this policy
will stop can Leader of the House explain why the plan has not yet been published and press the
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Department for it a clear timetable and an urgent statement? I know that after she raised this
11:26
Rt Hon Lucy Powell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Manchester Central, Labour )
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I know that after she raised this with me three weeks ago how much interest her question and my answer receive from many of those really
receive from many of those really wanting these answers and wanting to know when that delivery plan is
coming. I am sorry that it has not been contained in the NHS 10 year
plan. I will of course be in touch with ministers for her and get some answers for her.
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Thanking Mr Speaker for stop the return of the Bayeux tapestry to this country for the first time in
this country for the first time in almost 1000 years is a triumph for Britain. The tapestry quite
11:26
Helena Dollimore MP (Hastings and Rye, Labour )
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Britain. The tapestry quite literally wove Hastings and 1066
into our national history. What we are often at the centre of national Oracle events we have not always
felt the benefit. Our area is in the bottom 10 places of the whole country or social mobility. This will be the exhibition of a
generation. Our area must be a part of it. Children in my constituency
must not be priced out of the cost of a ticket or the train fare. What
better way to do that than to make sure the tapestry can visit 1066
country house? It is for the experts to decide if that is practical.
The leader of the Jounieh in supporting
my campaign to make sure that our area is truly part of this national moment and feels the benefit of it?
11:27
Rt Hon Lucy Powell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Manchester Central, Labour )
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Absolutely. I join her in saying
what great news this is that we are finally after all of these many many
decades and hundreds of years, we are going to see the exhibition of the Bayeux tapestry in this country.
I also pay tribute to her as one of the real champions in this House for
her area, 1066 country, an area close to my heart having holidayed
there for many years as a child. I know how important this exhibition will be to her area and to young
people in her area.
I'm sure when she says this exhibition of
generation will bring renewed interest in Hastings in the battle and the surrounding areas as well. I
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would join her in her call for young people to get access to it. Thank you Madam Deputy Speaker.
11:28
Rt Hon David Mundell MP (Dumfriesshire, Clydesdale and Tweeddale, Conservative)
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Thank you Madam Deputy Speaker. Can I begin by thanking sincerely the leader of the House for making
the leader of the House for making the announcement that there will be a debate on the 80th anniversary of
VJ Day. I think it confirms how worthwhile it is to come to Business
Questions, and make a case for a debate. I am sure the leader will
join me in congratulating his players who had a record-breaking start to the first week of
Wimbledon.
And particularly to Cameron Norrie on his great effort
of reaching the men's quarter- finals. But sadly many British
players have spoken out about the abuse that they have been facing
online. Including a couple of
people, with a WTA and ITF report finding that 40% of those people
trolling players were dissatisfied
gamblers. Can that Leader of the House bring forward a debate in government time to see what we can do to prevent this sort of
unacceptable abuse, not just to tennis players but all those in
public life?
11:30
Rt Hon Lucy Powell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Manchester Central, Labour )
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Can I first of all thank the honourable gentleman for being such
a regular attender at these
sessions? I can confirm that House that it was because of his representations in these sessions
that I had the idea of VJ Day debate before we broke for the recess. As
he said, the VE Day debate had been very oversubscribed, I hope we can also look at the specific lessons of
VJ Day as well. He raises a very
important matter.
I want to join him in congratulating all of the British players for their progression in
Wimbledon. But the online abuse that they have suffered and many others in public life, is unacceptable. It
is disgraceful, and it needs to stop. The Online Safety Act is an
important first step but we do need
to go further. The big tech platforms needs to step up and put an end to this kind of abuse on social media and where it flourishes
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because it is not acceptable and it needs to end. Thank you Madam Deputy Speaker.
11:31
Lizzi Collinge MP (Morecambe and Lunesdale, Labour)
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Thank you Madam Deputy Speaker. The crisis at a football club continues for top due to the failure of the owner to sell, staff are
of the owner to sell, staff are unpaid, and the bar is stocked and two by many school leavers do is
have been cancelled. The community has rallied round as they always do in Morecambe and the parties will go
ahead. I wonder if that leader of the house collectors have a debate in government time on corporate fiscal and social responsibility and
what powers should be available when business owners select amenities
11:31
Rt Hon Lucy Powell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Manchester Central, Labour )
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I'm sorry to hear that the
situation is continuing and it sounds like it's getting worse but I'm pleased that the community have
raised around to make sure some of those levers problems can go ahead.
She is right to raise those issues in the house. It is one of the
reasons that we have brought in the football regulator bill which passed its remaining stages in this house
earlier this week because we want to
put fans and communities) heart of football and important local clubs like Morecambe FC, and I know the
Secretary of State is keen to work with her to resolve these issues at Morecambe.
11:32
Rt Hon Alistair Carmichael MP (Orkney and Shetland, Liberal Democrat)
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Can we have a debate or a
statement on the accountability of accessibility of arms, legs, bodies? For months, I have been working with
the company trying to get answers for them out of UK research and
innovation. Emails just go unanswered for weeks and months at a time. There is no publicly available
contact information for the Chief Executive. I got an email this morning because my office called the
press office saying that I was going to raise it here, and that is the
only point where we have taken anything out of them.
Bodies deliver
a lot of government policy, so surely, they should be accessible and accountable to members of
Parliament in exactly the same way
that her ministerial colleagues are.
11:33
Rt Hon Lucy Powell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Manchester Central, Labour )
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Well, absolutely. He raises a
really important issue and I'm sure we all share that frustration that he describes with many of these
quangos not being open and accountable in the way that they should be. And frankly, this
government think there are too many of them and that is why we are
taking steps to streamline that. But
also, it is in the DNA of this government to make sure that people have recourse and accountability.
That is why we bought in bills like the football regulation bill, the water special measures act, the employment rights bill because we
want to give more people rights and recourse over bodies that take
decisions on their behalf, but I will ensure that he does get a
reply.
11:33
Adam Jogee MP (Newcastle-under-Lyme, Labour)
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And I extend my sympathies to you and your family on the recent effort
for your mother? Last Sunday, people from across Staffordshire including
many from the heart and soul of the county came together at Lichfield Cathedral for a celebration of the
services Lord Lee 10 to
Staffordshire. They have served the county for over a decade, so will the leader join me in thanking them
for their service to the county and wishing them in the family well for their retirement?
11:34
Rt Hon Lucy Powell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Manchester Central, Labour )
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I will absolutely join him in thanking them for the service to the
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community, and wish them the very best for their retirement. Can I join the tribute to Lord
11:34
Rt Hon Mark Francois MP (Rayleigh and Wickford, Conservative)
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Can I join the tribute to Lord Tebbit? He was a political giant in his day and far more capable than
his day and far more capable than the spitting image pub he was given credit for. On education, can we
have a conversation around counselling education healthcare
plans? Can I say, ill sincerity is the leader of the, we all know from
our constituency work that the SEN
system needs reform, but abolishing HCP's will only lead to a backlash from angry parents and a major
backbench rebellion, so whatever her government are going to do, please
don't do that.
11:35
Rt Hon Lucy Powell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Manchester Central, Labour )
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Look, as I think we have said
many times, the SEN system is broken. It does need reform and I
think it was his own secretary described it as a lose lose lose
situation. Both for parents and for
children. And it is not delivering the outcomes as well as being not a
very good process for anyone involved. I hope he is not trying to
misrepresent our position or our plans in what he is just outlined, but I can reassure him, as I have
reassured others, that we are working very very closely with the
sector, with parents, with campaigners and others, as we draw up a White Paper later this year.
That White Paper will be published. It will be there for all to consider, to see and to consult on,
and we will take that process seriously because we do want to build consensus on how we can bring
much-needed reform to the SEN sector.
11:36
Clive Efford MP (Eltham and Chislehurst, Labour)
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My friend was given a commitment to respond to Sir Brian 's report
published yesterday before the recess, and I have tried to express
to him earlier on that the community out there feel very wounded about
the way they have been treated since the final report was published in May last year. If that is left of
the fag end of this Parliament and squeezed in on the last day, I think it will just exacerbate that
situation, so can I stress to the leader of the, when in discussions with the Paymaster General, that we
do not leave at that late?
11:37
Rt Hon Lucy Powell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Manchester Central, Labour )
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As ever, he raises these
important issues around the infected scandal, and as I have said to him before, we have tried to be
incredibly forthcoming to this house
with many, many statements, a debate, and tried our very best to move forward the compensation schemes which now are underway. I
hear what he has to say. We do need time to just consider the findings
of that report, but we absolutely are committed to ensure that that
statement is made to the house before we rise.
11:37
Llinos Medi MP (Ynys Môn, Plaid Cymru)
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The status as a UNESCO global geo-pack is part of due process to
assess the functionality and quality of the status. The island is a globally significant site for study
and appreciation with a vast
geological history spanning four areas, 12 Georgia periods and 1.8 four areas, 12 Georgia periods and
1.8 billion years. Will the leader of the strain me in commending the hard work of the trustees and
volunteers at the centre whose hard work ensures we maintain our world-
renowned status?
11:38
Rt Hon Lucy Powell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Manchester Central, Labour )
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Can I thank him for raising
somewhere a visit regularly and a beautiful part of the world, and I know many people enjoy going there,
but she is absolute right that, in addition to that, this is an important geological site, and the
study that goes in that, so I support all of her efforts in
raising those issues.
11:38
Carolyn Harris MP (Neath and Swansea East, Labour)
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Last night, I was looking at the last mothers project to share the
support for female offenders to give birth in prison. They were joined by
the clean with trauma caused by separation. The leader of the
encourage ministerial justice colleagues to read and consider the findings of the last mothers report
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when making changes to sentencing guidelines? She is a great campaigner on
11:39
Rt Hon Lucy Powell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Manchester Central, Labour )
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She is a great campaigner on these issues, and I thank her for raising the last mothers campaign
raising the last mothers campaign and the report, and I will ensure that ministers do respond to that.
The government is committed to looking at, no justice, including
pregnant women. That is the work of the women's Justice Board but I will
ensure that the last report gets a decent supply.
11:39
Rt Hon Richard Holden MP (Basildon and Billericay, Conservative)
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While the leader of the agree
with me that it is wholly unacceptable for a senior official to refuse to respond to repeated
reasonable requests from me on behalf of my constituents because I
have correspondence going back to early March, and will she meet with me to make sure we can reach
accountability for some of these bodies with these timely responses from executive agencies in all
cases.
11:40
Rt Hon Lucy Powell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Manchester Central, Labour )
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I'm sorry to hear of the case he describes, and I am absolutely happy
to work with him to try and get more prompt reply from HMRC. This is the second time this has been raised in
this session, and the arm's-length bodies are responsible for services,
big expenditure and issues that really matter to our constituents, to be responsive to MPs and make
them.
11:40
Alex Baker MP (Aldershot, Labour)
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Last weekend marked our airborne forces weekend, and I was privileged to attend the official opening of
the new airborne Memorial shelter at Aldershot military centre. It is a permanent tribute to the service and
sacrifice of our airborne forces including those who lost their lives
in the tragic crash 60 years ago
this year on 6 July 1965. With the leader of the join me in paying tribute to the tireless work of Tommy Simpson, Richard Stacey and
the Aldershot Association whose quiet efforts over many years made
the project a reality.
They are Aldershot's finest and those that
where the maroon beret are Britain's finest.
11:41
Rt Hon Lucy Powell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Manchester Central, Labour )
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What a real tribute to all of those from our airborne forces, and particularly, I join herring
thanking Aldershot's Association and all those involved in delivering
this really important project, and I know she has also worked with the
honourable member Colchester and the member for South and East. Himself a
veteran paratrooper. To honour the legacy, and I thank her for her leadership on this really important
issue.
11:42
Richard Foord MP (Honiton and Sidmouth, Liberal Democrat)
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There are over 10,000 education and healthcare plans registered in
Devon, and the average cost is rising. It is now over £18,000 per
pupil. Much of this is spent on private providers who are not subject to the rigorous oversight
that we demand of SEN provision in the state sector. Even the leader spoke a moment ago about a forthcoming White Paper being
brought forward, can we have a debate on how provision can be
improved in the south-west and across the country?
11:42
Rt Hon Lucy Powell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Manchester Central, Labour )
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He is right to highlight some of the real challenges we face in the sector, there are a number of very
expensive private places that are often sought by those providers.
They don't have the same level of standards and accountability and value for money that we would expect
in the public sector, and this is
just one of the many difficult areas that we will need to tackle as we consider our reforms for special
educational needs, and we will be doing that.
11:43
Mike Reader MP (Northampton South, Labour)
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Easthampstead primary school has
been named the kindest school in Britain, so will the leader of the
join me in commending this, but also all the students who put themselves
forward as kindness ambassadors. She
agreed with me that axing this place, we could all be a bit more like this council and act with
kindness?
11:43
Rt Hon Lucy Powell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Manchester Central, Labour )
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I will join him in congratulating the kindest school in the country in
his constituency, and maybe I would extend an invitation to the kindness
ambassadors to come and meet with me and other members of this house so
we can share a bit more kindness
across the house.
11:44
Leigh Ingham MP (Stafford, Labour)
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Can I also echo my honourable friend from Newcastle-under-Lyme's
concerns, that it is good to see you back in your place. I hope Leader of
the House of Lords join me in celebrating the new escape from attraction that has opened in my
constituency this week. It is called Stafford. Yesterday, Western Road
was gridlocked, Newport Road had roadworks and beacon side is always to be avoided, leaving the only road
as Lichfield Road, so could we have a debate in government time on how
Staffordshire County Council needs to get its act together and sort out the endless roadworks in my
constituency?
11:44
Rt Hon Lucy Powell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Manchester Central, Labour )
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This is the third time she has raised with me the real problem
roadworks that her constituents are enduring because Staffordshire County Council has not been able to
manage them properly and she describes it as an escape room which might give a sense of fun about it,
but I know this will be anything but fun and a living nightmare, so she is absolutely right to call out
Staffordshire County Council who knew to get a grip.
11:45
Alison Bennett MP (Mid Sussex, Liberal Democrat)
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Miranda and Leo are my constituents who have been doing work experience with me this week.
They are in the gallery and this is the question. They are students in Brighton and Hove, one of the
country's top state sixth forms and they have to travel to college by
train. The Unisa own train pass offers travel to for £22 per month within coastal zone from Worthing to
Eastbourne but it doesn't extend north to mid Sussex just 5 miles
away.
It costs them £70-£90 extra per month which equates to £2000
more over the two years they would be at college. Given the government's mission is to breakdown
barriers to opportunity for every child at every stage, there's leader of the agree that this fair system
is unfair and will she make time for
11:46
Rt Hon Lucy Powell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Manchester Central, Labour )
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First of all, I join her in welcoming all of the students from the sixth form college. It sounds
outstanding and I'm sure it is
producing wonderful students and the question is pertinent and a good one. It is unacceptable that there
are differences in travel costs and
they are real barrier in terms of young people getting the education, training, job opportunities that
they need and we must address them
in terms of strategy plans and it is why we are introducing the
Devolution Bill to make sure we work collectively to break down some of the false boundaries that exist.
11:46
Jas Athwal MP (Ilford South, Labour)
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This week, Sky News reported that
the testimony of an anonymous Israeli soldier who admitted the
killing of prisoners depending on the day and the mood of the
commander. It is symptomatic of the systematic disregard of other things in life and in light of the ongoing
report on killings and forced displacement, will the Leader of the
displacement, will the Leader of the
House Foreign Secretary to clarify if we are considering further sanctions and what concrete recommendations have been made to
the Israeli government to ensure compliance with international law? compliance with international law?
11:47
Rt Hon Lucy Powell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Manchester Central, Labour )
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We strongly condemn some of the recent Israeli military operations
in Gaza and we are stronger opposed to similar expansion into the West
Bank. We have been calling for
Israel to end the blockade into
Gaza. There is a need for to get in because of the extensive humanitarian need in the area, as he
well knows. We have paused the trade discussions with Israel and sanctioned individuals and organisations supporting or inciting
violence against Palestinian
communities.
I am sure he will appreciate that we do not comment on possible future sanctions.
11:48
Rt Hon John Glen MP (Salisbury, Conservative)
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The Institute for Fiscal Studies
is undoubtedly the leading economic research institute in the country and I pay tribute to Paul Johnson who finishes his role after 14 years
and welcome Kevin Miller. Clearly, there are challenges for all parties in terms of making tough choices about public finances but could we
have a debate over the options facing the government? The Deputy
Leader of Reform was coming up with
a number that was half what the ISS
suggested.
-- IFS. It is important that this House and the decisions made in it inform the decision that
will be made in autumn.
11:49
Rt Hon Lucy Powell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Manchester Central, Labour )
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I join him in thanking Paul Johnson. I think we all recognise he
has done a great job as the director of the IFS over the year and I look
forward to hearing more from the
incoming director, Helen Miller. He
is right in acknowledging the difficult times we find ourselves in. We inherited a big black hole in
public finance reserves which have been spent even in the first half of
the year with recommendations of
public sector pay sitting on the desks of ministers without any allocation and that has been a
challenging time for us and that is why we have put a premium on financial stability, not because we
want to meet spreadsheet targets but because we know those on the lowest
incomes are paying the heaviest price and this is when the economy
is in difficulty.
The House debate these issues regularly, I am sure we
will continue to, and the budgets are made here first. are made here first.
11:50
Mary Glindon MP (Newcastle upon Tyne East and Wallsend, Labour)
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Given the Change Forever mass lobby of Parliament organised by the
Climate Change Committee, can you make time to look at mitigating the
make time to look at mitigating the
climate crisis and the unique position the government is to legislate entering private creditors
to the negotiating table?
11:51
Rt Hon Lucy Powell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Manchester Central, Labour )
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I thank for raising the issue
from the Act Now camping and she
will now be mission to be a
superpower by 2036 is at the heart of what the government is about. The Secretary of State for Climate
Change will come to the House soon to make a further statement about the issues and I'm sure she can give more clarification.
11:51
Wera Hobhouse MP (Bath, Liberal Democrat)
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Research from the University of Bath has uncovered serious violations of the pharmaceutical
code of practice by one of the
companies behind the weight loss controversy. The covertly used
millions of pounds to encourage charities to promote their drugs. In light of government support for
weight loss treatment, can we have a
debate in government time or at least a statement on the transparency of regulations on the companies behind weight loss drugs? companies behind weight loss drugs?
11:52
Rt Hon Lucy Powell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Manchester Central, Labour )
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She raises a really important issue. We absolutely recognise that medicines and the availability of
them needs to be carefully modulated and regulated and monitored and
there are various processes in place to deal with that but I will make
sure she receives a reply from health ministers on that particular issue.
11:52
Johanna Baxter MP (Paisley and Renfrewshire South, Labour)
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A former police officer from my constituency in Paisley and Renfrewshire South, after many years of dedicated service, is being failed by the mishandling of the
lease pension scheme by the public pension authority and there are delays to remedial service
statements. Months of delays in receiving the statement have left her unable to plan for the future
and instead of enjoying well earned retirement, she has been forced to
continue working due to the failure of the SNP government in Holyrood.
This is a betrayal of those who have served amenities as well as the
usual SNP incompetence.
Does she agree that the situation is not only
shameful but the only way to restore dignity to public servants and offer secure retirement for brokers across
Scotland is to elect a Scottish
Scotland is to elect a Scottish Labour Government next year. -- For workers. workers.
11:53
Rt Hon Lucy Powell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Manchester Central, Labour )
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It is shocking to hear about and I agree. The record of the SNP in government as one of waste, short-
term measures, a lack of transparency, failing the people of
Scotland and her constituents, like
the one she mentioned. Our police officers do a fantastic job unreserved respect and dignity in
retirement.
11:53
Martin Vickers MP (Brigg and Immingham, Conservative)
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Constituent came to me and she is
in receipt of the surviving police
officers pension and drew my attention to the anomaly that if she
remarried our cohabited, she would lose her pension and this has been
an issue for a number of years. I am looking to apply for a debate on
this. Perhaps the Leader of the House would like to make a statement
on the debate.
11:54
Rt Hon Lucy Powell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Manchester Central, Labour )
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I think the point he makes about
the surviving police officers
pension is is really important and I'm sure it would make for a popular debate if he applied for an adjournment debate. In the meantime,
I will ensure he gets a ministerial response.
11:55
Liz Twist MP (Blaydon and Consett, Labour)
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The north-east is known for its passion for football and I went to a
football session at the community
centre hosted by the Newcastle United foundation. There was plenty
of pride on show. Beyond football, and with the chance to talk,
connect, form friendships, improve well-being. Can we have a debate on government about the importance of
football and supporting community well-being? Speak amok I might be
well-being? Speak amok I might be right in saying it is the honourable Lydia's with the today so I wish her
Lydia's with the today so I wish her a very happy birthday.
-- Honourable Lydia's birthday. She is right of
Lydia's birthday. She is right of
Lydia's birthday. She is right of reminding us of the role that football and trusted sports can play
football and trusted sports can play and I support the efforts of the community centre and all of those
involved in the football session. involved in the football session.
11:56
Claire Young MP (Thornbury and Yate, Liberal Democrat)
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On Monday, I spoke to a constituent who works for the Jesse May Charity you provide hospice at
home here for my constituents and
beyond. They are trying to fund
raise for running costs, costs which cannot be helped by the capital funding announced by the government for properties. They are documented
on raising over £100,000 so far. This is clearly not a sustainable
way of providing vital healthcare. Will the Leader of the House get the
relevant minister to bring forward a statement on how this can be funded
sustainably Quetta
11:56
Rt Hon Lucy Powell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Manchester Central, Labour )
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I join -- funded sustainably?
**** Possible New Speaker ****
I join her in thanking her for
the work they Jesse May Charity do and we all know about the immense work that those who work in hospices
work that those who work in hospices do for all of us, society of the hall, and also the individuals,
caring for them at the end of life. They have relied for too long on
They have relied for too long on fundraising and the charity sector.
fundraising and the charity sector.
The government is here to support
hospices. The Secretary of State will make a statement but I will ensure she has heard the question and is forthcoming with an answer.
11:57
Rachel Taylor MP (North Warwickshire and Bedworth, Labour)
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**** Possible New Speaker ****
and is forthcoming with an answer. On Tuesday, Ukraine suffered its
heaviest aerial attack as over 700 drones and 30 missiles struck cities around the country. Today, the BBC
reported on another massive overnight attack on Kyiv by Russia. This week I will drive an ambulance
with medical supplies to Ukraine. Can the Leader of the House comment
the actions of British organisations
up and down the country who have stood in solidarity with Ukrainian allies? Does she agree with me we
must never back down in the face of Russian aggression? Russian aggression?
11:58
Rt Hon Lucy Powell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Manchester Central, Labour )
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I join her in thanking organisations up and down the
country for support in supporting Ukraine and Ukrainians, with a clear
in Ukraine -- whether the IKEA in Ukraine and we will stand with
Ukraine today, tomorrow, or 100 years from now. That is why we signed the historic 100-your
partnership agreement with President Zelenskyy recently. I hope the whole
House will support that. House will support that.
11:58
Clive Jones MP (Wokingham, Liberal Democrat)
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The Liberal Democrats welcomed the 10 year plan for health and I'm sure everyone would agree that this
is a crucial part of it but industry
figures tell me the current approach is is not appropriate when it comes to medicines useful for the
treatment of more than one edition. Can we have a debate in government time for access to innovative
treatment as part of a 10 year plan and the National Council Plan?
11:59
Rt Hon Lucy Powell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Manchester Central, Labour )
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He is right that access to innovative medicines and treatment
still takes far too long and that is why these issues are a core part of
the NHS 10-year plan and the Cancer
Plan. In that, we want them to get medicines faster and for the trials
to be easy but I will ensure that he gets a response back.
11:59
Josh Newbury MP (Cannock Chase, Labour)
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Next week marks Bees Knees Week,
a chance to acknowledge the vital role these essential species play
and a chance to thank them. There was recently a successful open
garden state but I went along to and these bring the community together in a beautiful way and inspire
garden envy but also raise funds for
the conservation trust. This is does example. example.
12:00
Rt Hon Lucy Powell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Manchester Central, Labour )
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I join him in congratulating the
gardening club on the commitment to bringing the committee together and
raising funds for the Bee Conservation Trust. I'm sure there
will be a real buzz about that. will be a real buzz about that.
12:00
Robin Swann MP (South Antrim, Ulster Unionist Party)
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Later today, a bust of David Turnbull will be unveiled in the other place and he was a leader of
the Ulster Unionist party and was involved in negotiations on the
Belfast Agreement and rightly received the Nobel Peace Prize.
Senator George Mitchell was the chair of the negotiations and said that he took enormous physical risks for peace and demonstrated courage,
determination and leadership at a time when compromise was dangerous
and difficult, and without his resolve, the Good Friday Agreement would not have been possible.
Will
the Leader of the House join me in congratulating and thanking those
behind today's events and also in remembering and acknowledging
David's political and personal contribution to Northern Ireland and
12:01
Rt Hon Lucy Powell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Manchester Central, Labour )
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I will join him in thanking Lord
Trimble for his courage, determination and leadership as he said. I think we all remember the
incredible role that he played in bringing about the Good Friday
agreement, and as you say, as he says, he put his own political
career at risk in taking such a
leadership role, but that is why he and John Hume were jointly awarded
the Nobel police prize which I think was a really fitting tribute to his, and I will join him in thanking all
of those for the event today.
12:02
Mr Connor Rand MP (Altrincham and Sale West, Labour)
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In the week that the football
governance bill continued its progress through Parliament, can I
join the attention to the free up
campaign which I'm supporting alongside my brilliant local football club. Could we have a
debate on this and how this could build on the football governance bill in ensuring the opportunity
close to rarely through English.
12:02
Rt Hon Lucy Powell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Manchester Central, Labour )
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I know what a great football club Altrincham FC is an how much he
supports them as the local MP. He is right that the football regulatory
bill is an important step in making sure that fans and community like those who support Altrincham FC are
back at the heart of our football system and I'm sure that the free up
campaign will get a lot of support if you wanted to have a debate on
it.
12:03
Tom Gordon MP (Harrogate and Knaresborough, Liberal Democrat)
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Last week, I asked leader of the she would join me in wishing good
luck to freedom performing arts who were performing at the world Championships in Spain. She will be
pleased to hear that the 69-year-old
secured a bronze medal. Last week, I
went on a visit to golfing Society where a group of volunteers and paid
staff take out people who live with Parkinson's, dementia and other age-related conditions to make sure
they get fit and active.
Can we ask for debate on how initiatives help people with ageing and associated
diseases? diseases?
12:04
Rt Hon Lucy Powell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Manchester Central, Labour )
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I'm pleased to have the freedom performing arts got a bronze medal. That is fantastic. And I join him in
thanking all of those who do work with people with dementia and those who are ageing to keep them
independent, keep them active, and keep them involved in initiatives. The Health Secretary is now in his
place, the NHS 10 year plan and all
the work that we are doing is about bringing the services back into the
community, prevention and the sorts
of initiatives that he describes.
12:04
Emma Foody MP (Cramlington and Killingworth, Labour )
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The first children's group took
place in 1907 and last weekend, 118 years later, I was delighted to attend this year's tree. With local
schools taking part, everyone joined
in to make their huge success, and a huge thank you to all the organisation for the biggest and
best treat yet. Can we find time to
recognise these events at the heart of our communities and protect these legacies for future generations?
12:05
Rt Hon Lucy Powell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Manchester Central, Labour )
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It sounds like a fantastic occasion. Anything with treat and children I'm sure attacks a great
deal of interest as well but she is right to say that community leaders who organise these things do a great
service to all our communities and I commend him for raising it.
12:05
Gideon Amos MP (Taunton and Wellington, Liberal Democrat)
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I declare my interest. Yesterday,
the secretary markets found in its notice to accept commitments by the
big service house builders, and suspected conflict may have had the
effect of preventing or distorting competition, and it stated that it may be presumed that parties took the sensitive information into
account, and the CMA is now considering accepted a payment of
£100 million to hold that
investigation. Given the scale and seriousness, shouldn't Parliament decide whether thousands of people have paid over the odds over their
home, and whether the proposed
commitment would go far enough on the competitive industry we want to
see.
12:06
Rt Hon Lucy Powell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Manchester Central, Labour )
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It is right that we look at these
issues and make sure we have true competition. This government is
committed to housebuilding on this, and these are matters for CMA and
the government, and I will ensure he gets a full response. gets a full response.
12:06
Warinder Juss (Wolverhampton West, Labour)
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Tea is the most popular beverage in the world next water, providing about 30 million people worldwide.
But half of 10 tea pickers said that
the impact of climate change on tea
production was the biggest challenge, and only one in five of
tea farmers earn enough to support their families, so will the leader of the please agree to a debate in
government time about introducing a UK law on human rights and environmental due diligence centring
on the needs of overseas farmers and workers so that they can have a living wage as well of addressing
the unsustainable purchasing practices and business models which undermine progress.
12:07
Rt Hon Lucy Powell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Manchester Central, Labour )
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Is right to raise these issues, and we all enjoy a cup of tea.
Yorkshire tea is my preferred. But he is right to remind us that, as we
drink our many cups of tea a day, we really need to think about where
that he is coming from and make sure that we do have fair trade and that those who are picking the tea and
those working in the tea sector are treated fairly, treated with fair
pay, and that is why the government
is taking steps to ensure that.
12:08
Jim Shannon MP (Strangford, Democratic Unionist Party)
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I wish to raise the disturbing reports of abuses suffered by a
woman abducted by jihadist groups in Syria, including prolonged sexual
violence run by groups. Well the
leader of the ask the Minister to
update this house on the assessment. What steps the UK taking with
partners to investigate these crimes, support survivors, and ensure their voices are included for
future justice.
12:08
Rt Hon Lucy Powell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Manchester Central, Labour )
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And I thank him for raising
another important and difficult issue in the house today. The Foreign Secretary in his
conversations with the Syrian government and others continue to
press to take concrete action
following the horrific violence that is continuing, as he says, to be committed against the community, and
I will ensure that he and the house kept up-to-date.
12:09
Martin Rhodes MP (Glasgow North, Labour)
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The leader of the make time for debate on the accessibility of
banking services for disabled people and those with additional support needs? This follows concerns raised with the steering group in Glasgow
with the steering group in Glasgow
based on my constituency who support widespread problems which need more
inclusive banking.
12:09
Rt Hon Lucy Powell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Manchester Central, Labour )
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That is why we have the programme
of banking helps, but we need to make sure that banking services, access to cash and all the other
services that come with that are absolutely inclusive and that we have those things in mind because it is people that are excluded in terms
of who needs the most, so he is right to raise them.
12:10
Jake Richards MP (Rother Valley, Labour)
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Recently met with volunteers who
do an incredible job organising countless teams for boys, girls, men and women in our area. They also
have a disabled team and I'm glad that the sports minister will visit
the team and watch them play a game over the August recess. Could the leader of the talk about the
people?
12:10
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I am really pleased to see that we have secured a visit from the
sports minister to his local football club, and if he's not ready
secured it, he does now anyway. He is absolutely right to raise the importance that disability sports
provide in in terms of keeping those of disabilities active and independent, and giving them purpose
and self-worth, so I applaud the work of his local club.
12:11
Amanda Hack MP (North West Leicestershire, Labour)
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A few weeks ago, I was invited to bowl at a joint fundraising event
with Ashley Sanz for team. The team Plans across the constituency to play football and chat if they need
to. With the leader of the join me in congratulating these local clubs in terms of coming together to raise
money for national charities, and consider a debate in government time to discuss the impact and support for families that experience baby loss.
12:11
Rt Hon Lucy Powell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Manchester Central, Labour )
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I will join her in congratulating club in her constituency on bringing people together to raise money and
raise awareness around baby loss, and once again, she highlights the really valuable role that local
really valuable role that local
football clubs can have in bringing people together, dealing with mental health issues, dealing with other health needs and is a really
wonderful service they provide.
12:12
Douglas McAllister MP (West Dunbartonshire, Labour)
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I recently met with a range of families who settled in my Western constituency, and it was a privilege
to hear it first hand. After three
years, the UK government operates the scheme allowing for 18 months extensions to remain in the UK. I
also understand that we must respect
Ukraine's desire to see all its citizens returned to Ukraine when
peace is secured. But many of my constituents have secured homes, good employment or full-time
education and see their future.
Can I ask leader of the store arrange for debate in government time to
look at how we can provide stability for those seeking to complete
short-term visas and start to plan the pathway towards indefinite leave for Ukrainians have made this
country their home.
12:13
Rt Hon Lucy Powell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Manchester Central, Labour )
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He raises a really important issue, and I think everyone of us is
really proud of the ways this country has welcomed so many Ukrainians over recent years, giving them home and refuge and supporting
them in their time of need. He is happily right to highlight that we have to balance the wishes of the
Ukrainian government as well who want to see their citizens return to
the UK, and that is why our approach
needs to respect the wishes of the Ukrainian government, but I think he raises an important issue about
long-term security and access to higher and other issues, and I will
ensure he gets a full response.
12:14
Chris McDonald MP (Stockton North, Labour)
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The maritime sector offers rewarding careers, particularly if
you get quite excited by large-scale
engineering projects, and I think someone in the Department shares my enthusiasm because they have awarded funding to setup the maritime
cluster which is training young people in our area. With the leader of the join me in congratulating
local businesses who worked hard to establish this cluster, and given
the interest, perhaps we could have a debate in government time on the opportunities for young people in the maritime sector.
12:14
Rt Hon Lucy Powell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Manchester Central, Labour )
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I'm pleased to hear about the development of the cluster and all the opportunities that this will
bring the young people and job opportunities and to really show the
strength of his constituents in contributing to the maritime industry, and I think it would make
a very good topic for debate.
12:14
Josh Fenton-Glynn MP (Calder Valley, Labour)
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This week, Yorkshire water
announced a hosepipe ban. This follows a 29% hike in bills and
continued pollution in our rivers. Can I ask my right honourable friend
how we can hold this company to account on behalf of my constituents?
12:15
Rt Hon Lucy Powell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Manchester Central, Labour )
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Well, I am sure like many member is across this house, the frustrations that people share with
water companies operating in their constituencies and frankly, that has
gone on for too long, some bad behaviour by these water companies and not enough accountability and
action on the issues that matter to all of us. That is why we have
brought in the water special measures act. It is why we have got the commission on the future of
water governance underway and there will be further legislation coming forward in due course on this
forward in due course on this
That brings us to the next piece of
business, Statement on Resident Doctors Industrial Action.
Doctors Industrial Action.
12:16
Rt Hon Wes Streeting MP, Secretary of State for Health and Social Care (Ilford North, Labour)
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With permission, I will make a
statement on planned industrial action from resident doctors.
Today's we think the figures show that after 14 years of decline the NHS is finally moving in the right direction. Since July, we have cut
waiting lists by 260,000. We promise to deliver an extra 2 million appointments in the first year and have more than doubled that,
delivering 4.6 million more appointments in the first year. For the first time in 17 years, waiting
lists fell in the month of May, now
standing at the lowest level in more than two years.
This is what can
happen when NHS staff and a Labour Government work together. We have put the NHS on the road to recovery
but we all know that it is still
hanging by a thread and that the BMA
is threatening to pull that thread. I met the courtiers of the Resident Doctors Committee of the BMA to
discuss the result of the ballot for industrial action. In that meeting and in a letter I sent yesterday, I
offered to meet with the full resident Doctors committee of the
BMA and work with them to improve the working lives of members.
I have
strikes are not necessary given the eagerness to work together to improve conditions for resident
doctors. Following a pay rise of 28% thanks to the actions of this government, he threatened industrial
action of the BMA is entirely
unreasonable. I am asking them again today to pause, call of the strikes,
and instead work with the government
to rebuild working conditions for members and rebuild the NHS. Before the government came to office, toxic
combination of Conservative
mismanagement, strikes, were crippling the NHS.
The cost to the
NHS ran to £1.7 billion in just one year with 500,000 operations and
appointments cancelled for patients.'s lives were ruined.
Phoebe suffers from a genetic condition which causes noncancerous
tumours on the outside of her body.
Her first operation at great Ormond was cancelled twice. First due to
strikes and then because there was not capacity to treat her. Phoebe
loves going to school and it is an absolute tragedy that her education
was set back and she was prevented from doing what she loves because
the NHS was not there for her.
This
year, when her family contacted Great Ormond in March, her surgery
was scheduled less than two weeks later. Compared to what she went through two years ago, the
difference was night and day. That is the difference Labour Government
makes. That is why this government was absolutely right to end the
strikes when we came to office. I am
so proud of what we have achieved together with NHS staff. In the
words of one NHS leader I spoke to
recently, "There are light at the end of the tunnel and for the first
time it is not an oncoming train." That is only possible because of the
deal we negotiated and when we agreed the deal to end the strike
last year it did not just mean a 22% pay rise for resident doctors but the government gave a genuine commitment to build a new
partnership with those we now call resident doctors, based on mutual
respect.
I have personally ensured the commitment was followed through.
I knew exception reporting process has been agreed in principle. -- a
new. It means doctors will be paid for the work they are given and
there is a new policy to reduce disruption to the lives of doctors.
We promised to tackle GP unemployment and delivered with an
extra 1900 GPs on the frontline who were otherwise facing employment. I
am determined to go further to
tackle Doctor unemployment.
When I say to resident doctors I want to
tackle the unfair competition for specialty trading places and create more trading places, they can judge
me by my words and my actions. When
the Pay Review Body recommended a pay rise this year, we accepted it
and funded it in full. These are not
grounds for industrial action. Indeed, in the history of British
trade unions, it is completely unprecedented for a pay rise of
28.9% to be met with strikes.
The
BMA themselves described this pay rise is generous. Thanks to this
government, the annual average earnings for a first-year resident
doctor last year was £43,275,
significantly more than the average
full-time worker at the country is the first year of the resident doctor. It is set to increase
further with this your's payroll and in the second year, the annual
average earning rose to £53,200 last year. In court trading years, an
average of £67,000.
Specialty
registrars, almost £75,000. There is no question that these are highly
trained and skilled medics who work hard for their money. But to
threaten strikes in these circumstances is unreasonable,
unnecessary. It is no wonder that the BMA has lost the support of the
public. At the beginning of the dispute, resident doctors faced a
Conservative government who were cutting pay and refusing to talk to
them. A clear majority supported action as a result. In February
2023, 36% of the public -- 56% of
the public backed junior doctor strikes but today that support has collapsed.
Just one in five people
believe the BMA are doing the right thing and patients are begging
resident doctors not to walk out on
them. I hope that the BMA are listening. Many resident doctors are. For the first time since the
campaign began, a majority of BMA resident doctors did not vote for strike action and conceded that the
government has changed, our approach has changed, but yet the tactics of
the BMA have not. Britain doctors
have received the highest pay award in the public sector, both this year and last.
Renegotiating the pay
award this year would be deeply unfair to all other public servants.
Such a deal would be paid for by future earnings and with the greatest respect to resident
doctors, there are people working in public services who are feeling the
pinch more than they are. Even if it would not be unfair on public sector
workers, it is unaffordable. It
should be apparent to anyone that the public finances that this
government inherited are not awash with cash.
I will not and cannot
negotiate on the pay award this year
and will not lead the resident doctors up the garden path by making promises, unless I know that I can
keep them. As I have said in person, in writing, in private, in public, I
am willing and ready to get around
the table and work together to improve the working conditions of resident doctors. There is so much
more that we can do together. I do not just hear the complaints resident doctors have about
placements, rotations, and more, I agree with them.
I know that the NHS
has been a bad employer and I am determined to change that. My offer
to top comes with no preconditions attached. I will also say this to
resident doctors directly, consider very carefully the consequences of your actions.
12:26
Rt Hon Caroline Nokes MP (Romsey and Southampton North, Conservative)
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Order. Can I suggest to the Secretary of State that his
statement has been 10 minutes already and he has not requested additional time and if he wishes to
consider if the statement is to be House or those outside the House. He
might like to make some closing remarks.
12:26
Rt Hon Wes Streeting MP, Secretary of State for Health and Social Care (Ilford North, Labour)
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I will move to closing, Madam
Speaker. Thank you. I will say to resident doctors that it is important the House knows what we
important the House knows what we
are saying and that is that they should consider the consequences of their actions because five days of strike action means patients and families receiving the phone call they are currently written, being
told the operation or appointment they have been waiting for, often
for far too long, has been cancelled or delayed.
I know how this would
feel if it happens to a member of my family currently waiting and I would ask them to consider if it happens
to a member of their family. And while they are on the picket line protesting the increase of 20.9%
that they have had, their friends and colleagues, other NHS staff. --
28.9%. They are friends and colleagues will be inside, picking
up the pieces, working harder to compensate for the consequences of their actions. In conclusion, not
only are the strikes unnecessary and
unreasonable, but unfair, on patients, other NHS staff, the
future of the NHS, which is in jeopardy.
And, of course, the tragedy is they will never have had
a Secretary of State as sympathetic
to legitimate complaints as this one. The alternative is not sat there, they have not showed up
today, they do not believe in the NHS, and the grass is not greener on
the other side. I asked them not to squander the opportunity because, at this stage, we can come out with a
victory for the BMA members, the
NHS, and patients. If the BMA continues down the path of strike action, they will lose the campaign
and resident doctors will be worse off and the heaviest price of all will be paid for by patients.
I
commend this statement to the House. commend this statement to the House.
12:28
Rt Hon Edward Argar MP (Melton and Syston, Conservative)
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I am grateful to the Secretary of State for his typical courtesy in advance of the statement and I would
note that he is among the most assiduous of ministers and
volunteering himself to be Heisman to be questioned on issues of
importance. It comes as no surprise
we are here discussing industrial action on the watch of the government. We warned last year that
caving into the pay rises without conditions or strings attached was set a dangerous precedent, sending a
message the government is weak.
We warned that unions would come back
for more and events of recent days have unfortunately shown we were right. The public will be understandably concerned about what
the industrial action will mean for them and provision of NHS services
for patients and for someone on a waiting list, this will be particularly acute. Let me be clear,
particularly acute. Let me be clear,
this BMA strike action, as was said, supported by less than 50% of those
eligible to vote, it is irresponsible, wrong, unnecessary, and we agree on that.
Can the
Secretary of State enlarge on what additional steps he is taking to
solve the industrial dispute and prevent the strike action from proceeding? I thought about his
willingness to talk does he anticipate further meetings before
strikes start on 25 July and does he anticipate the risk of any other
parts of the NHS workforce balloting for strike action? If this does take
place, what steps are being put in place to minimise disruption? What if you plan to protect patients who
require NHS services over this
period? And can he guarantee there will be a contingency plan for
services in place? Based on previous trends, how many appointments does
the government anticipate are at risk of being cancelled or postponed? Has he assessed what
impact this will have on the target to reduce waiting lists and the target of 18 weeks? The previous CFO
of NHS England said nearly all the allocated money in the budget for
the NHS last year would be eaten up by payment settlements, the National
Insurance height increase, and inflation cost, to maintain services at the existing level.
Following the recent Spending Review, the
Chancellor announced how much of that funding he anticipates will be spent on staffing costs, including
the already agreed pay award and National Insurance increase and how
much of it will make to the frontline for additional care to fund the reforms he said that
fund the reforms he said that
What will be the long lasting impact between the unions and the trade unions? The 10 year plan was
published last week, and it is sensible and I support it, but they
have been concerns raised about its deliverability.
The Secretary of State has said previously he will
need to work with unions to deliver on this plan. Is he still confident
that that is going to be possible? Will they agreed to the changes required, or wall that risk further strike action over the coming years
because they have sensed weakness? The Secretary of State had some very strong and well articulated views on
industrial action. He said strike action was playing politics with our NHS. On that, I agree with him. The
government ought to be pulling out all the stop the power to stop the strikes is in the governments hands.
He is the Secretary of State, does he agree that the power is in his
hands? The message to the government is clear. The Secretary of State needs to do what he said he will do,
which is to face down union pressure and deliver an affordable setting
that is fair to staff and taxpayers. On his watch, resident doctors are set to leave the frontline to go
onto the picket line. Whether that happens will be down to him. Labours
weakness is sadly fuelling this crisis.
If they don't get a grip
now, a summer of discontent and strikes risks turning into a summer of chaos and it will be patients who
pay the price.
12:33
Rt Hon Wes Streeting MP, Secretary of State for Health and Social Care (Ilford North, Labour)
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Well, I think the shadow Secretary of State's memory is
letting him down. Let me just remind him that before the general election, after months of refusing
to meet the BMA, the Conservatives finally got them in for
negotiations, but not before strikes
were left to run and run at a cost of £1.7 billion for the taxpayer and across cancelled operations,
appointments and procedures. They also offered the BMA resident doctor or junior doctors they were then a
pay rise which was only about 4%, so
imagine what would have happened if they would have pulled their finger out and got them around the table
sooner and hadn't been quite so intransigent.
Now, he is right to say that I criticised my predecessors for their unwillingness
to negotiate. And the difference between what I said then is what I
have done now. They have had 28.9% pay increase thanks to decisions I
have taken a Secretary of State with the support of the entire government. They have a Secretary of State that doesn't slam the door in
their face that is open to working with them to improve conditions for resident doctors. And that is why the responsibility for the strikes
lies squarely with the BMA and the resident doctors committee who,
despite the first time in their campaign, having failed to get a majority of their own members to
vote for strike action, are still proposing to lead their members out on a five-day strike, even making
the announcement on a day where I had already written to them to
suggest that we meet to avert unnecessary strike action.
The shadow Secretary of State is right
to talk about the jeopardy facing the future. Because we produced our 10 year plan in partnership with
patients, the public, and NHS staff, there is much in there that not only should resident doctors welcome, there is so much in there that
resident doctors suggested. Our 10 year workforce plan will set out
training, education and retention of the workforce and we will work
closely with them. On staff standards, they should start to experience an improvement in their working conditions on everything
from nutritious Food & Drink available, reducing violence against staff, tackling dissemination.
We have already committed to prioritise
UK graduates for training. We have started a conversation on
contractual reform with trade unions across-the-board. We are determined to recruit more locally and to
tackle social disadvantage and access to medicine. And all of the
issues that are at the forefront of the resident doctors on placements, rotations and future career
aggression including specialty bottlenecks, I absolutely want to
work with them, so these are not conditions for strikes. These are
conditions to work in partnership.
Just as other NHS trade unions
across the public sector are. And I will say to resident doctors once
more, sat in front of me is the ghost of Christmas past. Not in their place today in the Reform
Party as the ghost of Christmas future. Perhaps the BMA might consider that they are lucky to have the ghost of Christmas present in
front of them.
12:36
Alex McIntyre MP (Gloucester, Labour)
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I am glad the secretary of state
has reminded the party opposite about their rather short-term memories because when I took my
place in the house just last year, there were thousands of my residence in Gloucester who were sat on NHS
waiting lists, many of whom for longer than 18 months, and since this Labour government took power,
that number has come down by 92%. In part thanks to the hard work of resident doctors in my constituency,
but does the Secretary of State agree with me that strike action
will put that recovery at risk, and will he invite them to meet with my
residence who are still waiting on waiting lists left behind to explain
to them why the 28.9% pay rise that to them why the 28.9% pay rise that many of my constituents won't receive this year is not enough.
12:37
Rt Hon Wes Streeting MP, Secretary of State for Health and Social Care (Ilford North, Labour)
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I completely agree with my
honourable friend. I urge the significance of the achievements
already made, and the progress already made with a Labour government, but the wider context we
are working on. It is not just resident doctors who have seen their pay eroded over a decade of
Conservative government but the entire public sector. It is not just
resident doctors. It is our schools, our hospitals, our prisons, the
entire public sector estate. You look across our economy, there are enormous challenges this government
is facing, and so we can't sort out every issue that we inherited
overnight, or even in one year.
It is going to take time, and that is
why I think they should be proud of the progress we have made together,
reassured by the progress we want to make with them further still, but there has got to be some give and
take care, and has to be some reasonableness, and when you consider the consequences that their action could have on patients on
their fellow staff and on the future of the NHS, this is unreasonable. It
is unnecessary and deeply unfair.
12:39
Alison Bennett MP (Mid Sussex, Liberal Democrat)
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Thank you. People across the country and NHS patients in
particular will be disappointed to hear of more strike action by resident doctors this July, especially after the immense
disruption of recent years. I fully
recognise that this dispute doesn't come out of nowhere. We left the NHS
under impenetrable strange and often
without the resources they needed. People in my constituency and across
the country need and deserve a well-functioning NHS. Over the last
three years, doctors have received 28.9% pay rise following earlier
strikes.
Now the BMA is calling for a further 29% increase. But we have
to be honest. After years of economic mismanagement by the Conservatives, the public finances
are in a dire state. That kind of increased doesn't feel affordable or
realistic right now. That said, we cannot ignore the reality of working
conditions. Doctors are expected to save lives in collapsing wards, and deliver care in corridors rather
than in safe clinical settings. It is degrading and dangerous for both staff and patients. We need constructive dialogue is not
escalation to solve this dispute,
and most importantly, we need urgent action to restore working conditions that our doctors and patients can be
proud of.
So I asked the Minister if he will improve staff morale by
committing to end the dehumanising practice of corridor care, and
second, does the secretary of state not see that by dragging out social
care reform, delayed discharge and corridor care are only going to worsen doctors experience of working
in the NHS, weakening morale and loaning standards.
12:41
Rt Hon Wes Streeting MP, Secretary of State for Health and Social Care (Ilford North, Labour)
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I am grateful to the
spokesperson. Firstly, she is absolutely right to call out the
disgrace that is corridor care. Despite the best efforts of staff,
who have suffered the moral injury of treating patients in that
condition, into many parts of the
NHS, we have patients being treated in corridors, and in this decade of the 21st-century, I think that is
unacceptable. As is the non- claimants are which ascribes this as temporary escalation sentences,
which is in danger of normalising what should be considered unacceptable practice, and that is
why this government will start publishing corridor care data
showing the number of patients being treated on trolleys in corridors.
I'm sure there might be moments
where this might cause ministers and NHS leaders to blush, but frankly, until corridor care is consigned to
history, so we should. Sunshine is
the best disinfectant. By publishing the data, we will hold ourselves to account, and I'm sure this house
will hold us to account to make sure that we deliver the conditions that staff and patients deserve to be
treated in. I can also reassure the member that while the case of commissioners is underway, work goes
on on social care, whether it is the £4 billion increase in investment in social care through the decisions
taken by my right honourable friend the Chancellor, other improvements
in terms of carers allowance and uplifts in funding for local
authorities, but I am also committed to making sure that, as we improve the flow of patients through our
hospitals and deal with the scourge of delayed discharges, but we are a lot better at thinking about how we
use the taxpayer pounds to deliver the right care and the right place
at the right time, and that will often mean using resources to commission social care to help tackle delayed discharges, and we
will be keeping an ion that.
Finally, can I thank her for joining the voices of reason in this
chamber? I hope it is not lost on the BMA and resident doctors
watching that this is not the case of intransigent and willing to work
and support government, trying to face down political and ID logical purposes, a trade union speaking for
its members. We have a Labour
government delivering a pay increase and a willingness to work further to improve conditions of resident
doctors, and that work and start now and I am ready to meet with the BMA immediately.
There are also other
voices of reason in this chamber in the Liberal Democrats who recognise
the pressure on the public finances, and they also recognise that we are trying to do many things across the
NHS that will also directly benefit resident doctors, making sure they have got the right kit, making sure
they are working in decent buildings, but we are improving the
conditions that they are working in and patients are treated in, so together, we are building on,
working in and being treated in an improving NHS.
That is the price. That is thrown into jeopardy by the
resident doctors actions, and I'm afraid if they go down this path with all of the consequences that
will follow, I'm afraid for them, let alone the NHS and the country,
things will get worse rather than better, and I urged them not to take
that course of action.
12:44
Warinder Juss (Wolverhampton West, Labour)
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Is my right honourable friend agree that we were right to settle
the strikes last year for the sake of ensuring the future of the NHS,
to protect the interests of the public, and show our doctors that
they are valued, and that will always be his position going forward, and therefore, it is somewhat surprising that resident
doctors have decided to call the strike?
12:45
Rt Hon Wes Streeting MP, Secretary of State for Health and Social Care (Ilford North, Labour)
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I strongly agree with my honourable friend. He is absolutely
right. There is genuinely, I'm happy to stand corrected on this, there is
genuinely no historical precedent in the history of British trade
unionism for a trade union to have successfully negotiated with the government of the day a 28.9%
increase for members and then to go out on strike. I think it undermines
the BMA and the more reasonable voices who we continue to work constructively with. It undermines
our NHS certainly, and it also reinforces the grossly unfair
caricature often thrown at trade unions by the party opposite, that they are unreasonable, that they don't want to work with the
government of the day, they are just interested in combat and agitation, when in my experience, the vast
majority of trade union and trade unionists are interested in
constructive engagement, in striking good deals, and moving not just the
interest of their members but out the interest of our whole country moving forward.
I urge the resident
doctors committee to stand in that proud tradition of British trade unionism and in the proud traditions
of the wider Labour movement. I'm afraid I do not see those traditions or behaviours reflected in the
or behaviours reflected in the
or behaviours reflected in the
12:46
Rt Hon Sir Edward Leigh MP (Gainsborough, Conservative)
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We can all argue about the past but if it helps the Secretary of State, I think we should say that
the whole House absolutely supports his robust attitude. Of course, we all love doctors but the starting
salary is not so bad, they have a good job for life, which many people
do not, and perhaps he did mention they also have a better career structure with many reaching the top
structure with many reaching the top
job, consultant, the salary of £400,000 a year is not bad.
£400,000 a year is not bad.
12:47
Rt Hon Wes Streeting MP, Secretary of State for Health and Social Care (Ilford North, Labour)
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I think his opening statement and
the response -- £100,000 a year. I think this underlines they do not have support across the House, from
the left, to the right, with maybe
some exceptions. That is not a typical experience, and my
experience of being in this House for the last decade. I think the
career he describes for resident doctors and the prospects that they
can look forward to have worsened. I
think that is one of the things that have been at the heart of the dispute that they have taken forward with the previous government and
this one.
Many things that doctors used to be able to look forward to in terms of guaranteed jobs and
progression into new roles, new practices, those things have eroded
steadily and we have far too much Doctor unemployment, opportunity
bottlenecks. I think we have an unreasonable set of behaviours
towards resident doctors in terms of rotation, taking time off work to attend things like weddings and
important life moments. That is the tragedy of the position we find ourselves in and I recognise that
and want to address it and it can be done together, without strikes, and these are not conditions for strike.
Worse still, especially when we are
advertising dealing with Doctor on employment, they are inflicting further cost to the NHS, patients,
the taxpayer, making my freedom, but stability and resources to deal with those issues more limited. That is
the tragedy of their tactics.
12:49
Emma Foody MP (Cramlington and Killingworth, Labour )
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I thank the Secretary of State
for the statement at the ongoing work to get the NHS back on its feet
after being pushed to the brink by the previous government. Strikes inevitably have financial and human
cost and the next round of strikes will undoubtedly do so again and
there will be a financial hit to the
NHS. Can't ensure the impact this will have on the system? Can he guarantee the cost of strikes will not lead to job cuts? not lead to job cuts?
12:49
Rt Hon Wes Streeting MP, Secretary of State for Health and Social Care (Ilford North, Labour)
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In all honesty, I cannot give
that assurance. The NHS finances are precariously balanced. We have been
relative winners across the Budget and Spending Review set out by the
Chancellor. We are asking a lot of
the system. As well as the progress and improvements we want, we have
also got the mess we inherited to clean up. That takes time and
resource. Every penny spent on the price of failure through strike
action is a penny that could have been spent on driving improvement in the service - improvements for
patients and staff, creating the jobs and opportunities that will mean doctors do not graduate into
unemployment.
Jobs and opportunities that mean resident doctors can
progress into specialty roles and that is why I say, clearly and
unequivocally, to the BMA, that the strike action, if it goes ahead with
the pain and misery that follows, it will not just be patients and the government that suffers, but it will
be them, too.
12:50
Rt Hon Sir John Hayes MP (South Holland and The Deepings, Conservative)
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I have known the Secretary of
State for a long time, since before he was an important man, although he
is always important. He will know that as a minister I worked with
trade unions in many sectors and that can be confirmed and I was a
member of a gym. I endorse what he is saying. Responsible trade
unionism require people are reasonable. This strike, against this background, it is entirely unacceptable in the terms she has
described.
Will he ensure this unhappy, unwholesome, unhealthy
action does not jeopardise the
health of my constituents? Will he write to local authorities and clear
boards to set out how they can minimise the impact? -- care. The
last thing you want, I want, anyone across the House once is for those
at risk to suffer from irresponsible action from militant people.
12:52
Rt Hon Wes Streeting MP, Secretary of State for Health and Social Care (Ilford North, Labour)
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He is that rare beast of a Tory trade unionist. He raises a serious point, the consequences of strike
action. To reassure the House, and I will keep the House updated, we are
taking every step that began to mitigate against the disruption the
strikes will cause. That will come at a financial cost, a cost to patients in terms of the disruption
that follows, and in terms of the pressure to other staff, many of
whom paid less than the resident doctors will be left at work in difficult conditions as a result of
the actions of colleagues who have had a pay rise and appeared more and
are protesting for a pay rise after
receiving 28.9%.
I am sure the House bill do everything it can to mitigate against the disruption to
patients that will follow but I cannot say we can offset or cancel the impact or detriment felt by
patients. We will be looking carefully at the data, experience,
and impact of strikes that took place during the previous round and
I will make sure that is published on the House can see the impact of previous strikes so they can brace
themselves for what lies ahead.
12:53
Lewis Atkinson MP (Sunderland Central, Labour)
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Anyone who has ever worked in
healthcare knows that it is a team
sport. Delivering excellent care requires staff from allied health professionals, nurses, doctors, administrative, state staff. Does
the Secretary of State agree that all NHS staff groups have confidence
that their pay is being set fairly?
Going beyond the independent pay review body for one set of staff in
particular with undermining the ethos of being one team that many have worked for?
12:54
Rt Hon Wes Streeting MP, Secretary of State for Health and Social Care (Ilford North, Labour)
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I strongly agree with what my honourable friend says. I have been
personally invested in the relationship with resident doctors and the deal, not just because it
was one of the first things we did then be given to office and I am
proud of what we achieved together, but because I still have a huge amount of support, sympathy, and
determination to address the issues raised by resident doctors. I assure
the House that resident doctors are one part of the NHS workforce, they
are valued, and I have responsibility for all of them.
In terms of the task set out for
ourselves to build an NHS fit for the future, we cannot do it on our
own as a government and it requires the whole team to work together. I
have felt a considerable degree of discomfort when I look at a whole number of deals and pay awards under
this government and predecessors.
The agenda for change workforce has been left behind and, I will be
honest, at this moment, I have got to resolve the immediate action that is proposed by the BMA.
I will not
allow the reform we have committed to four agenda for change unions to
be de-prioritised. We owe it to nurses and all of the staff to make sure that they are paid fairly,
given a fair days pay for a fair
days work. My priority at this stage is the agenda for change of form and I will do everything I can to
resolve the resident doctor strikes. I cannot reopen this year's pay award.
12:56
Rt Hon Caroline Nokes MP (Romsey and Southampton North, Conservative)
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I ask remaining members and the Secretary of State to remember we have an important step in to come and to make the bed so perhaps
shorter questions and answers. -- And a debate. And a debate.
12:56
Robin Swann MP (South Antrim, Ulster Unionist Party)
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I welcome when he says to the BMA doctors that they will never have a
Secretary of State sympathetic to complaints and I recognise that because I've worked with five of his
predecessors. My experience of this tells me that what happens with
regard to the BMA will filter through the devolved nations. What engagement has he had with
counterparts with regard to the
proposed industrial action so we can have a combined message and resolution with the BMA?
12:56
Rt Hon Wes Streeting MP, Secretary of State for Health and Social Care (Ilford North, Labour)
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I thank him for his question and
I reassure him I will be engaging with my counterparts in the devolved
administrations. Health is a devolved matter. The decisions we
take here and what is going on in the English health system affects
the others, and vice versa. It is
almost tempting to call back the
member for North East Lincolnshire, who is still a member of the house.
-- Cambridgeshire. This will remind the BMA what they are up against and
I can also call upon other Conservative predecessors to remind
the BMA that the grass is not greener on the other side of the House and they have got a Secretary
of State who has shone with actions and words a willingness to work together.
12:57
Mr Connor Rand MP (Altrincham and Sale West, Labour)
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We all know how vital resident
doctors are to NHS function, and so, in light of that, will the Secretary
of State join me in urging the resident doctors to get back to the table, engage in serious talks, and
take up his offer to meet with them
to rebuild the NHS in a way that the country expects Quetta
12:58
Rt Hon Wes Streeting MP, Secretary of State for Health and Social Care (Ilford North, Labour)
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I am grateful for the question and to reassure the House, I offered to meet the entire Resident Doctors
Committee in January and I would be
happy to have that meeting. In all seriousness, I met with the courtiers on Tuesday afternoon after
the publication of the ballot result and followed up in writing yesterday
morning to reaffirm what I had said
in person, which is that we are willing to meet immediately, without
preconditions, to avert strike action.
The offer remains and am
happy to meet on that basis.
12:58
Mr Andrew Snowden MP (Fylde, Conservative)
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I will say this in the context that my wife has a long-term chronic
condition and has had two major life-saving surgeries, Cagla stays
in hospital. We see the fantastic work done by many doctors and consultants. We have also experienced cancellation, delays, no
doctors available. We have seen the
impact that has. Many would be flabbergasted by the skill of the pay rise awarded in the first place without anything in return for
delivering the reforms that the NHS
wants to deliver.
-- scale. They would be outraged by the fact the
BMA has decided to go straight after a pay rise of nearly 30%. I plead with the Secretary of State to hold
the line and take away the cross-
party support he has on this.
12:59
Rt Hon Wes Streeting MP, Secretary of State for Health and Social Care (Ilford North, Labour)
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Will not be reopening the pay
award this year. We simply cannot afford to and it would not be fair on others in the NHS workforce,
regardless. I don't regret the deal
that we struck last year. With outfits, would not have made the progress we have made on NHS waiting lists which are at the lowest levels
for two years. We have made considerable progress by working
together. I do not think the staff themselves are a drain on productivity but I think the system
they work in, the pathways, the conditions in the NHS, these are the obstacles.
We are in agreement about
those things. I would urge them to take that into consideration before
the next public statement which I
hope would be agreeing to avert strike action which I think the whole House agrees is unreasonable
13:00
Jas Athwal MP (Ilford South, Labour)
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And I thank my friend for his
speech delivered with pragmatism and his usual professional style. After
a 29 After a 29.9% pay rise thanks to this Labour government, this is
Secretary of State agree that the public are not only dismayed but
distraught at the actions of the BMA and that once again, it will be the patients who will suffer the most by
this action which so unnecessarily
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appears at this particular moment. I agree with my friend entirely.
13:01
Rt Hon Wes Streeting MP, Secretary of State for Health and Social Care (Ilford North, Labour)
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I agree with my friend entirely. It will be patients who suffer the most. We can look at the whole
most. We can look at the whole membership because other staff are left picking up the pieces and other staff who were tired of working in
an NHS far from its best, and the final thing to say, to resident doctors in particular, the cost of
this will also be borne by then. There are choices and trade-offs, especially when resources are tight.
We can and will deal with bottlenecks.
We can act to hear on
unemployment, and we have to do do
that by paying the cost of this unnecessary and unfair strike action.
13:02
Jim Shannon MP (Strangford, Democratic Unionist Party)
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Can I thank the Secretary of State for his statement today? And
for the line of action. Indications
of the majority of doctors within
the BMA do not vote to strike leaves the strike action even more difficult to understand. The Secretary of State is trying to find
a way forward and I look at things
in terms of finding solutions. We
have to look at weak structures which see junior doctors working 84 hours within the space of a week.
And perhaps this is not only about pay but about the expectations for
these young people who are still leaving and yet have life-and-death
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in their hands every week. Think the honourable gentleman
13:03
Rt Hon Wes Streeting MP, Secretary of State for Health and Social Care (Ilford North, Labour)
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Think the honourable gentleman makes a reasonable point. Pay is
makes a reasonable point. Pay is important. People have to be able to pay their bills and leave a good life, but so are the conditions they
are working on, and I am determined to work with resident doctors to make progress not just on pay but on
the conditions they are working on, and given both of those things, the willingness to work together to improve conditions, those are not
grounds for strike action.
13:03
Anna Dixon MP (Shipley, Labour)
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I would like to congratulate my
right honourable friend for showing leadership. The results of that has been falling waiting times and
waiting lists, and I have seen the benefit of that in my constituents
in Shipley not having to work for operations and diagnostic tests. It is my right honourable friend agree
with me that this is no time for strike action and should the BMA and the resident doctors go ahead, this
will adversely affect patients and waiting times.
13:04
Rt Hon Wes Streeting MP, Secretary of State for Health and Social Care (Ilford North, Labour)
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I agree with my honourable friend, but I was struck, looking back at the contributions that we
have had this morning that quite extraordinarily, this doesn't happen very often, but I think the entire
house on both sides of the chamber have spoken with one voice. There
has been total unanimity across this house during these exchanges at these proposed strikes are
unreasonable, unnecessary, and they
are unfair, so for the avoidance of doubt and the resident doctors committee, this house has spoken
with one voice to say abandon this rush to strike, get around the table
and work with us to rebuild resident doctors and continue rebuilding our
National Health Service, and I thank the house for its support.
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I will allow a couple of moments
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I will allow a couple of moments
13:05
Ministerial statement: Review of the Electricity Market Arrangements
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Secretary of State Ed Miliband. Thank you. With permission, I
13:05
Rt Hon Ed Miliband MP, The Secretary of State for Energy Security and Net Zero (Doncaster North, Labour)
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Thank you. With permission, I would like to make a statement about the arrangements. The central
the arrangements. The central challenge we face is the urgent need to get expensive in signal fossil
fuels and make an energy system that meets demands by 2050. In doing so,
we need to design a network to ensure infrastructure is built in the right places so it can provide
power where required. As a result of
failure to do so, power now goes to waste, costing higher bills.
That is one of the reasons why reform is
needed. So the task of this review is to help give a clear power
is to help give a clear power
system. It is really about reform national system, and zonal pricing, we would split to different zones to
guide investment decisions. Under a reform national crisis, we would
rely on more strategic investment, planning and network and areas of
intended generation more closely and in delivery. I have played three
tests to this choice.
First, what is the fairest approach for families and businesses in the long-term.
Which reform can deliver security and will best protect consumers and ensure bill savings as soon as
possible? Third, what will do most to ensure jobs and growth we need across the economy? On the basis of
these tests, the right approaches reform national pricing and I want
to set out why. First, the fairness test. There would be one national wholesale price as of now, and as
I've said, under zonal pricing, there will be different wholesale pricing with lower prices tending to
occur in zones with more renewable energy and a smaller population, and higher prices in those with less
power and more people.
This will be a significant departure from the current system which has some differences in network costs and
means that you pay the same wholesale price for each unit of
electricity. The challenge will be obvious to the house. People businesses could find themselves disadvantaged and many would see it
as unfair. Such as a so-called postcode lottery which is difficult
to defend. The government have considered whether it be possible to mitigate these effects and we
concluded that while it might, it will be a complex and uncertain process and it will be even more
challenging to do so for large businesses the way they purchase
electricity.
Firms in higher price owns would face damage to their competitiveness. That is why we have
seen so many business groups express
concerns about zonal pricing, and decisions have looked at ceramics UK and others. The next test I applied
is which system could best help deliver energy security, protect consumers and ease the cost of living crisis as soon as possible.
Long-term reform is essential to cut costs and save money for consumers compared to the status quo, but
there is a key question as to what happens in the meantime.
Clear advice is moving towards zonal
pricing would take around seven years to complete in full assuming no delays. Over that seven-year
period, the costs of the central investment would be likely to rise
to accommodate investor uncertainty
at a moment when we urgently need to replace retiring assets and build a clean energy system to boot our
energy security. This risk premium will be paid for in coming years,
and there is a danger that it would leave us stuck on fossil fuels for
longer by deterring investors from bringing forward the investment that we need for energy security.
By contrast, we can deliver, and some
elements are already underway including building network infrastructure, and we intend to
proceed with other measures such as reform charges as soon as possible
in this Parliament. Having said this
in detail over months, I see real risks that zonal pricing will deter the investment we need and that
bills would rise in the transitional period. The third test is the investment and growth we need as a country. Many businesses make
decisions to invest based on the energy cost they face.
An industrial strategy to crucial step forward in
lowering the cost from businesses, and clean power will help get us off the rollercoaster which has so damaged countries businesses. Now,
we know that the biggest enemy of business investor is uncertainty.
The risk of zonal pricing is very
significant. Because imagine being a business seeking to invest but not knowing what zone you would be in
and what price you would pay. The risks that this will harm investment
not just in the energy sector but well beyond it.
I believe this would risk reducing investment in our
country when we need it and risk undermining the tens of thousands of good jobs in constituencies across the country that our mission will
support. So on the basis of these three tests, I believe the best case
is to look at national pricing. Key elements will be effective planning for the strategic energy plan to be
published next year, national pricing reforms such as making
transition prices more predictable,
and making changes to improve flexibility and balancing markets.
We will build the transition network we need for the benefit of all consumers and we will be more directive and coordinated and how we
plan the energy systems. Each upgrade that we deliver will ensure
consumers benefit from clean power. My department will set out a reform
delivery plan later this year. Taken together, I believe the steps can help deliver more affordable fair
and efficient energy systems and will address the problems of the
so-called process set out to solve without the unacceptable risks about
why.
This bill will turbocharge our drive to home-grown clean power.
Consenting three-time solar, lifting the onshore wind band, consenting
and offshore wind power to mere homes, backing the biggest expansion
of nuclear in half a century, kickstarting new industries and carbon capture and hydrogen, giving
families money off energy bills, and upgrading up to 5 million homes to
Ills. Every energy decision this government makes is in pursuit of protecting people from 40 school
markets by delivering clean home- grown powers that we control.
It is
in that spirit that we have chosen reform national pricing. Doing
everything we can to ensure facilities, and ensure businesses
can invest in the future. Underpinned by businesses across the country, and I commend this business
to the house.
13:12
Rt Hon Claire Coutinho MP (East Surrey, Conservative)
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I thank the Secretary of State for his question. I know this is
been a difficult decision for him. He told everyone his flagship mission was to commission more power
than ever before by 2030. More wins than ever before in a market that was already facing supply change
challenges and storing costs. I set
out the time that this was unfeasible, but if he was going to do it, then he should be taking every opportunity to minimise the
grid infrastructure needs to be built in the cost of his plans.
But
I know on the other hand that he will have had wind developers tell him that if he takes those
decisions, he makes those choices, and they won't be bidding into his auction in the next couple of years.
The auctions that he needs to bid into so he can meet his self-imposed targets and that is because they
want to protect their returns. So when faced with a choice between protecting the profits of wind developers or cutting bills for the
British people, he's chosen the wind developers and they know that they have him over a barrel.
Because inserting himself in unachievable
2030 target which was based on
ideology alone, he was telling those wind developers that he has got to buy whatever they are selling no
matter the price. Now little over a year ago, the Secretary of State
said that the bills would come down by up to £3000, but the statement
today says that when push comes to shove, he will choose higher bills for the British people to fund
profits for energy companies, and
worse still, what he didn't mention is that today's announcement means higher bills to pay billions for windfarms not to produce energy but
simply to switch off for constraint payments.
I warned him repeatedly
about the risks of building more grids, and by continuing my work on
a full systems cost of energy which includes the cost of backup and
constraint payments, but he didn't listen. He acts that way because he
didn't want to know what those costs were. Instead, last year, he signed us up to the most expensive wind
prices. That is almost 50% higher than the average cost of electricity
the last year. Which is been about
£74.
This year's prices will be higher, and the difference that he wants longer contracts and to extend
those 20 years. What he has not explained is how locking us into
much higher prices for longer will bring down bills from here, but that is what he has promised the British
public, and there is more. It requires more grids to be cost, £74
on household bills. His plans mean constraint payments paying windfarms
to switch off will rise to £8
million, £100 on bills.
And now we read that we are going to be paying solar farms to switch off when it is
sunny as well, and the OBR says that green levies will rise by £5
green levies will rise by £5
Backbenches need to realise that people did not stop a variable rate
mortgage of 4% for a fixed rate
mortgage of 8% but the are concerned about the price of bills and want cheaper prices. If you are serious about bringing down bills, you are
not obstructed that Mackie did not obstructed and the analysis I
provided about the true cost of wind and solar.
I read that Downing Street are pressuring the Secretary of State about when his plans might
bring down bills and all I can say
is that I should be given. What they might have wanted to have asked, before repeating empty promises
about cutting bills, that £300,
where is this evidence? Would he reinstate the cost of energy work to clearly see the difference in the
systems? Would he set out a roadmap to point out how he will lower
bills? Will he confirm he will not stand up to prices in the auction
this year that are higher than the current cost of electricity? Did he have a full cost benefit analysis of
the choices in front of him today and will he share the news with
Ofgem and NESO.
Octopus Energy are a
big advocate of cheaper prices and
he has said these plans will cause problems. He says it is brittle for
families and tripling for growth. I think he said in the statement that the biggest problem for businesses is uncertainty but it is not, it is
high energy cost. Another quote, perhaps the most revealing, his
chief adviser said, "If we procure this but do not build the grid that
lets renewables get to market, we will be wasting lots of money." I
could not have put it myself.
could not have put it myself.
13:18
Rt Hon Ed Miliband MP, The Secretary of State for Energy Security and Net Zero (Doncaster North, Labour)
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This is the first time my opposite member has been at the dispatch box and I start by
congratulating her on her new baby boy and I welcome her back to the House of Commons. I know from
personal experience that crying at
night is possible but I would not be surprised given the state of the Conservative party. To respond
directly to her, I think we have a number of differences. The
fundamental difference is that she wants to gamble in the fossil fuel
Casino.
She wants to gamble with fossil fuel prices and that is what the Conservative party did in office
and it led to the worst cost of living crisis in generations. It
destroyed... It is not true, she says from a secondary position, but
it is, and she has to get out there and hear what people have to say
because it ruined public and
business finances. What do they do? After their worst election defeat in 200 years, do they come and acknowledge they might have got it a bit wrong and should think again,
no, they double down on a failed strategy.
That is the first point.
Secondly, she says we have a problem of constraint costs and it is a problem and we do not have the
infrastructure that we need as a country, which is absolutely right.
Who was in charge for 14 years?
Don't take my word for it, I notice her colleague, the shadow energy minister, he is not at his place but he said it is absurd that under 14
years of And serve the government we
are in a position when it is harder to build critical infra structure
projects.
-- 14 years of Conservative government. Whether it is the grid system which is backed up, the planning system in
disrepute, the infrastructure was
not built. Thirdly, she now says that we should forget about the past
and airbrush the record of the Conservative party and build the
grid and, to right, we should build
the grid but she is opposing it around the country and saying it is terrible and should not be
happening. At the level of strategy about what is the right thing for the country, at the level of record
and why we are in the position and the level of what she is doing now,
I'm afraid she is in the wrong place.
What are we doing? We are actually changing this and while she
has been away, we have made a whole set of decisions that they have talked about but never delivered.
From nuclear power, they talked
about Sizewell, SMRs, but did not
deliver it. We are. Over £40 billion of private investment into clean power and blood, record breaking
renewables auction, and she says I
am somehow on the side of wind uppers. No, I'm on the side of UK
steel.
The British Chamber of Commerce, Ceramics UK, businesses
across the country have said this is the right decision for the country.
And about bills, let me directly address what she says, my strategy,
my belief is that it is a clean power system that can bring down bills for good. Why? That is the way
bills for good. Why? That is the way
that you law wholesale prices. --
lower. That is how you get off the rollercoaster. Home-grown clean
power is the answer for Britain.
I propose in her post that she does some hard thinking about the past,
strategy, what is right for Britain.
13:22
Bill Esterson MP (Sefton Central, Labour)
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I very much welcome what the
Secretary of State has announced.
There will be no surprise to hear me saying that he set out three
parties, fearless, lower bills, and
including in business. -- fairness. We had just recently as yesterday
that this is causing a real concern in industry. And, of course,
attracting investment, not least ahead of the auction. I was sad when
the shadow secretary of state was so critical of wind generation.
I have
a letter from 12 March, 2024, to my
predecessor, setting out the terms of reference for the consultation that the Secretary of State has
responded to. She made great emphasis about how important it was to invest in renewables. It is a great shame to see the change of
heart. Under the national system, I want to ask this question, does the Secretary of State envisage
increasing the opportunity to use
demand flexibility and use it as fast as possible as a key way of bringing down energy costs for
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domestic and industrial consumers? My honourable friend speaks with
13:24
Rt Hon Ed Miliband MP, The Secretary of State for Energy Security and Net Zero (Doncaster North, Labour)
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My honourable friend speaks with great expertise on these matters. I will come to his question at the
will come to his question at the end. I think it's important because I like to talk about cross-party issues where both parties had been
enthusiastic. If you take offshore wind, we have the second largest offshore wind generation in the
world, which was started with Gordon
Brown, Secretary of State, and Gordon Roma's perimeter, continued under the last Labour Government but the ability is abandoning that and
the ability is abandoning that and
saying it is a solution.
He is right about consumer-led flexibility and
the key point is it is voluntary and
a way for consumers to save money. I think with Octopus Energy, they are
a pioneer of this, and I think we are in the foothills of what we can achieve. Consumers are empowered
through things like batteries, solar
panels, key pumps, to control using energy, and smart because, to control using energy to their benefit and the benefit of the
system.
13:25
Pippa Heylings MP (South Cambridgeshire, Liberal Democrat)
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I would like to thank the Secretary of State for sharing the statement and advice. He is right,
making the UK a clean energy
superpower is the smartest and most strategic way to free ourselves from expensive and expensive and volatile
fossil fuel. Accelerating the transition to renewables alone is not enough and the government must ensure the clean power mission
brings out customer bills and creates a more fair system for households and businesses. Currently, energy bills in the UK
are among the highest in Europe with the high cost exacerbating cost-of-
living pressures and fuel poverty.
Also, it reduces international competitiveness for industrial
consumers and it risks driving some businesses overseas. The Liberal Democrats have long called for
electricity prices to be decoupled from the wholesale price of gas for
families in the UK don't pay over the odds for clean energy which is generated in Britain because of
volatile global gas prices. We will look closely at the details of the plan after the review of the
electricity market arrangements. The Secretary of State has outlined
three test to ensure British consumers are not exposed to a level
of risk.
I would like to ask the
Secretary of State if he will publish the analysis and said that the impact the changes will have on customer bills and we will look
keenly at the much-needed joint
approach between planning renewable energy infrastructure through the
Strategic Spatial Energy Plan alongside energy plans on land-use which are out of sync at the moment.
Renewable energy can be the cheapest and most secure source of power but, for many, saying is believing,
feeling it in their pockets.
-- seeing. Many are struggling to see that. I hope Liberal Democrat proposals will be considered, just like the one for solar on all
routes, heat pumps for people on low incomes, and social tariff to
protect the most vulnerable. protect the most vulnerable.
13:27
Rt Hon Ed Miliband MP, The Secretary of State for Energy Security and Net Zero (Doncaster North, Labour)
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I would also say that there is not a monopoly on five years and the
idea of you-built housing having
rooftop solar as standard, it was going to be done in 2016 but the last government abolished it. It is
last government abolished it. It is
a no-brainer. It unites people whether we have solar online or not.
On decoupling, absolutely. Part of
what clean power 2030 will do is
decoupling and it will have the gas price changing less of at the moment
and we will be moving to CFDs, meaning reductions in price feet
through to consumers.
We will publish further analysis later in
the year as the document says and
she's right about the SSAB which was
the work of the Rudd government and will be a crucial guide to get over the problem of the disconnect
between the need of the generation
and the infrastructure.? In sitting on the select committee, I enjoy a
on the select committee, I enjoy a wry smile when academia groups say
we've had delay in the party opposite and getting on and
opposite and getting on and delivering.
The pricing bring certainty to the market and I thank the Secretary of State for tackling
excessive transmission charges. There is a massive opportunity for
There is a massive opportunity for clean power in my constituency. Does the Secretary of State agree this type of investment and the certainty
type of investment and the certainty the statement brings will create technical jobs and reduce energy bills?
I thank him for the question and
with the issue of certainty, there has been global inflation which has
affected the offshore wind sector.
I
take it from her comments that we should say we are not bothering with
offshore wind and sticking to gas. I think it would be such a mistake I did leave us exposed and we should learn from the past. In terms of
jobs, I had the chance to visit the
site of the new windfarm of the
English coast, Rampion 2, recently,
and I'm struck talking to members across the house about how there are lots of places contributing to this
and we want more, jobs in Britain, and that is the point of GB Energy
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and the clean energy bill. Under the current system, the
13:30
James Wild MP (North West Norfolk, Conservative)
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Under the current system, the most expensive generator sets the
clearing price relativity and pushes up prices for consumers and businesses. How will the reforms set
out today change that and move to a bidding system to provide more
13:30
Rt Hon Ed Miliband MP, The Secretary of State for Energy Security and Net Zero (Doncaster North, Labour)
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That is why hope you will support
clean power 2030. The key thing is if you can get these renewables onto the system, gas will set the price
much less often. Because it is a CfD and not renewable operation, the
reductions in price feed through to the consumer. Genuinely this will
have a transformative effect on the so-called decoupling that the Liberal Democrat spokesperson
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raised. Barry Gardiner. And I congratulate my right
13:31
Barry Gardiner MP (Brent West, Labour)
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honourable friend on this package of measures. The system that was left by the Conservatives needed three
things. To tackle transmission charges, to tackle constraint
payments, and to tackle marginal costs of pricing, by which the price of gas drives the cost of the
system. So I welcome the Strategic
Spatial Energy Plan will see assets build closer to their users. And
will lower the transmission charges that comprise more than 20% of the cost of power. I welcome the new transmission lines and storage
facilities which will reduce constraint payments.
These are game changers but 40% of the cost of
power still comes from the marginal cost of gas. Can he elaborate on
what he said earlier, can he tell us if there are any plans to decouple
the wholesale price of gas from the system? That is the real game changer.
13:32
Rt Hon Ed Miliband MP, The Secretary of State for Energy Security and Net Zero (Doncaster North, Labour)
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I will come to his earlier point a minute. The last point, the last
government looked at it and found it difficult to find a mechanism to do it within the system. The key thing
that clean power will do is, because well set the price much less of the
time, and because we are seeing the CfDs come in, it has a dramatic
effect. Something like more than half of the generation is covered by
the gas price at the moment.
It will for to a much lower figure than that, I can give the right
honourable gentleman figures. On his first point about constraint payments, this is a point worth
dwelling on. If we are worried about constraint payments because the network is not there, we are right
to be worried. But if that is our view, we should be supporting the
building of network infrastructure across the country. We cannot have
it both ways. We cannot say we are worried about constraint payments, your worried about the cost on
consumers, but we can't have this new infrastructure bill.
That is an
issue, I wouldn't call it a dilemma exactly, that is a choice that every
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member crosses House has to make. Thank you Madam Deputy Speaker. UK households and businesses pay
UK households and businesses pay almost the highest cost of energy compared to other European countries. It has been said many
countries. It has been said many times but it is worth repeating, this is because the cost of
this is because the cost of electricity is coming to the cost of
electricity is coming to the cost of gas. I share his determination to reduce underlies on gas was long
duration will play a vital role to bridge the intermittency.
What more
can the government to to rapidly increase the support for these
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emerging technologies? It is very important, long-
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It is very important, long- duration energy storage, and batteries will stop we have a
batteries will stop we have a mechanism for this. Ofgem is looking at the applications along with NESO
at the applications along with NESO that have been made. And it will drive forward. It is a very
drive forward. It is a very important part. What I always say to people is we need all of the
people is we need all of the elements in the system we need nuclear, we need renewables, we need
battery storage.
All of them can contribute to a clean power system.
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Thank you Madam Deputy Speaker. I thank the Secretary of State for his
thank the Secretary of State for his statement. It is clear that zonal pricing would not only waste valuable time in the race to reduce
valuable time in the race to reduce our reliance on costly fossil fuels but it would also see my
but it would also see my constituents in Ealing Southall many of whom are on very low incomes, and
of whom are on very low incomes, and indeed families across London paying more for their bills.
Does the Secretary of State agree that this
13:35
Wera Hobhouse MP (Bath, Liberal Democrat)
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Secretary of State agree that this Labour government's plan to invest in cleaner cheap renewable energy,
and to reform energy pricing for the whole country as one, is a fairer
whole country as one, is a fairer and more effective way of reducing bills for everyone? bills for everyone?
13:35
Deirdre Costigan MP (Ealing Southall, Labour)
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I thank my honourable friend for that very important question. I think she makes two good points.
Firstly, the time it would take to get to a zonal pricing system, and the second is the arbitrary nature
the second is the arbitrary nature of who would benefit and how they would benefit, and the cost
differentials. I think we can see there would be a great sense of
there would be a great sense of unfairness about that. She is also absolutely right that the choice is not reform or no reform, the choice
not reform or no reform, the choice is what kind of reform.
That is what reformed national pricing is all
reformed national pricing is all about. Above all, and my other honourable Friend referred to this,
honourable Friend referred to this, it is about getting on with it. It might be lost in the mists of time, but the Conservative Party used to
but the Conservative Party used to have a target for clean power. It was actually 95% clean power by
was actually 95% clean power by 2030. But they never used to talk about it very much and they
about it very much and they abandoned it quietly.
The truth is that they used to understand this. We have to build the infrastructure, we have do build the renewable power generation.
13:37
Rt Hon Ed Miliband MP, The Secretary of State for Energy Security and Net Zero (Doncaster North, Labour)
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The Strategic Spatial Energy Plan
must ensure that new energy projects in Wales work with and not against
in Wales work with and not against communities. And for local small
communities. And for local small scale projects, they deal with the clean energy we need and with far
less impact. Can the Secretary of State say how the upcoming approach
State say how the upcoming approach will help communities and how it will be supporting the expansion of small-scale energy projects? small-scale energy projects?
She makes a very important point.
Both about the SSEP, the strategic energy plan, also broadly about the
role of community energy. And the role of for example rooftop solar,
even before we are introducing the Future Homes Standard, are seeing an
increase in the number of new homes that having solar panels put on roofs. We have community energy
which is much more successful in places like Germany and Denmark, which GB Energy will be powering forward. And I am really interested
in how we make it more worthwhile
for individual householders to install solar panels themselves.
Because this is right for them and
it is a real way to cut bills. That
is what is exciting about it. So we definitely see small-scale community energy as part not just of our
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Planning for the Future, but also something we want to drive forward. Thank you Madam Deputy Speaker.
13:38
Tracy Gilbert MP (Edinburgh North and Leith, Labour)
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Thank you Madam Deputy Speaker. Can I warmly welcome the statement by my honourable friend for top
by my honourable friend for top zonal prices sounded like a good idea, but the reality is uncertainty on future arrangements was risking
investments. And it would not lead to jobs in green manufacturers, or
indeed across Scotland. To meet the needs of consumers and businesses
will need to have a more flexible energy network. Can my right honourable friend set out a bit more detail about how he envisages this
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to happen. I thank my honourable Friend for
13:39
Rt Hon Ed Miliband MP, The Secretary of State for Energy Security and Net Zero (Doncaster North, Labour)
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I thank my honourable Friend for that important question. I think there is an important dimension here in terms of the impact on Scotland. Because Scotland has really exciting
Because Scotland has really exciting planned around driving forward renewable energy. In particular
around offshore wind power it can be a massive job creator for the
future. We are really focused on this. One of the other issues that
zonal pricing would have meant would
I fear have had an adverse effect on Scottish green economy.
This was a point powerfully made by lots of
different stakeholders in this debate. I can definitely say to her,
we are 100% committed, Scotland has
a rightful place as an energy capital, an energy powerhouse and offshore winds are crucial part.
13:40
Seamus Logan MP (Aberdeenshire North and Moray East, Scottish National Party)
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Thank you Madam Deputy Speaker. I must apologise to the House and to the Frontbench for being a bit late today. I appreciate the high wired
nature of the act that the ministerial team is trying to
deliver. There are two litmus tests that are crucial. One is that private investment is essential to
make the journey to net zero happen. And secondly, Scotland is such an
energy rich country, yet we are paying the highest prices in terms of tariffs, standing charges. Can I
ask the Secretary of State, will his statement today make it easier for private investment coming and
deliver us towards that journey to
net zero? Does C4C lower energy costs for consumers in Scotland?
13:40
Rt Hon Ed Miliband MP, The Secretary of State for Energy Security and Net Zero (Doncaster North, Labour)
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The answer to both questions is yes. On the first point, this is a
very important point. It goes to the question asked by my honourable friend which is, the fear is that
lots of people have that it would really dry up the renewables
industry in Scotland if we went down the route of zonal pricing. And that
is why we have opted for the planned system that we have talked about. The reformed national pricing
system. And I want to elaborate on
the second point, building this clean power system, building a system that can lower wholesale
prices, which is the absolute prize
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here is the route to lowering energy costs of people in Scotland and across the UK. Last summer was the hottest on
13:41
Chris Murray MP (Edinburgh East and Musselburgh, Labour)
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Last summer was the hottest on record, and this summer may be even hotter still. The world is facing a
hotter still. The world is facing a climate crisis. To tackle that we need to move fast to net zero and Scotland's energy sector will be
crucial in this country achieving that. To do that we need to encourage not discourage investment,
and we cannot waste any time. Can the Secretary of State tell us, does
he think the decision today will help Scotland boost its energy sector and through that this country's fight against climate
change?
13:42
Rt Hon Ed Miliband MP, The Secretary of State for Energy Security and Net Zero (Doncaster North, Labour)
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My honourable friend speaks with great expertise and passion on these issues. On his first point, I think
it is worth saying something about
this, and I hope to be saying more in the next week or so on this. Which is, what we are seeing around
the world in terms of the impacts of
climate change is I'm afraid the new normal. But it is not normal in
terms of what the past is like. And we see some horrifying scenes from around the world and we know those
are much more likely to happen because of the warming of the planet that we are seeing.
And therefore
there is real urgency, my honourable friend is right to emphasise it. He
is right in sync Scotland playing a pivotal role in answering this
question. Answering this question for the UK in terms of energy security and in terms of tackling
the climate crisis. I believe the announcement today will help in that endeavour.
13:43
Luke Myer MP (Middlesbrough South and East Cleveland, Labour)
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Yesterday I hosted a roundtable of manufacturers in the rural part
of my constituency for top I welcome the government's industrial strategy and in particular the measures on
industrial energy prices. But they raised concerns about grid connections and that part of the
constituency. The government would be to improve grid connections because the Teesside region has
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thousands of jobs in clean energy and green industries I want all industries to benefit from that. My honourable friend the Energy
13:43
Rt Hon Ed Miliband MP, The Secretary of State for Energy Security and Net Zero (Doncaster North, Labour)
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My honourable friend the Energy Minister politics I'm prompted to meet my honourable friend, which rarely happens will stop I'm not talking about my honourable friend
talking about my honourable friend here. So enthusiastic is he about talking about this issue. My
honourable friend is so right to raise this issue of grid
connections. We inherited an
absolutely broken system with a zombie queue, massively oversubscribed, lengthy delays are
oversubscribed, lengthy delays are
nothing happening basically. That is why we have ended the "First come first served" system, and we are doing a very much more intentional
planning system for the grid.
That is good for connecting renewable energy but the other thing is crucial, by working out which energy
projects you need and which you don't, you then free up the queue for industrial projects. That is the key, and that is the work that any
S0, the National Energy System Operator, is currently embarked
upon. I hope that will help businesses in his constituency across the country to deliver and deal with the obvious frustration
deal with the obvious frustration
they have of grid connection.
13:44
Claire Hughes MP (Bangor Aberconwy, Labour)
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Can I thank the Secretary of State for opting for a reform system
which will avoid bills going up in my constituency but also provide certainty to drive investment in energy system. Would my right honourable friend agree with me that
our clean power mission will not only be vital to generate lower bills, better jobs in areas like
mine, but also provide a future for people growing up in our area that
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they have opportunities like the new wind farm that has just been approved? My honourable friend puts it so
13:45
Rt Hon Ed Miliband MP, The Secretary of State for Energy Security and Net Zero (Doncaster North, Labour)
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My honourable friend puts it so well which is, when you talk to
well which is, when you talk to young people, who are thinking about the jobs they might do in the future, I'm always struck by this,
from nuclear to renewables, to carbon capture, across the board,
people know that these are the growth industries of the future, and there is a huge opportunity for
Britain including her constituents. I think it is incredibly exciting
what we can deliver.
And this is the
new case for climate action which is about energy security and lower bills. It is about jobs and growth
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and it is about doing the right thing future. Thank you Madam Deputy Speaker.
13:46
Jas Athwal MP (Ilford South, Labour)
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Can I thank my right honourable friend for his vision and the statement he has just delivered. On
the issue of inheriting zombie systems from the previous government, does the Secretary of
State agree with me that it is remarkable that the party opposite have shown no contrition whatsoever
about the dire state they left our energy system in, which resulted in
the worst cost-of-living crisis in memory, and families in Ilford South and across the country are still
13:46
Rt Hon Ed Miliband MP, The Secretary of State for Energy Security and Net Zero (Doncaster North, Labour)
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He puts it incredibly well. They have not shown any confession, any
acknowledgement, and have not learned any lessons, not a single
lesson. It is basically that they say that they were right and the
electorate was wrong. I gently say, or not so gently, that is a recipe
for oblivion. That is frankly a
recipe for oblivion and it is time that they really took a long hard
look.
13:47
Mr Alex Barros-Curtis MP (Cardiff West, Labour)
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I thank my right honourable
friend for the statement. I put on record my thanks to the Minister sat
next to him for the extensive conversations he has had with me and other Welsh MPs about concerns around zonal pricing and we thought
it would fail the affordable tests claims today. I welcome the
claims today. I welcome the
statement. We have and notional form
of pricing but can I assure my
constituency will see lower bills as a result?
13:47
Rt Hon Ed Miliband MP, The Secretary of State for Energy Security and Net Zero (Doncaster North, Labour)
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This is the key. This decision provides the certainty that I
Choice it will not lead to seven years of uncertainty, risk premiums,
higher bills. It gives us a platform to work with industry, get on, deliver. One message for industry is that no is the time for them to step
that no is the time for them to step
up. -- now. They have to come forward with the project. We are breaking down barriers for planning,
the grid, uncertainty, and now we are determined to get on and deliver
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for people across the country. I thank the Secretary of State
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I thank the Secretary of State for the statement this afternoon. We stay with energy and come to the
13:48
Select Committee Statement: Select Committee Statement on the Second Report of the Energy Security and Net Zero Committee, Gridlock or growth? Avoiding energy planning chaos, HC 868
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stay with energy and come to the first Select Committee statement on
behalf of the Energy Security and Net Zero Committee. The chair was
picked for 10 minutes, there will be no interventions during this, and, at the conclusion, there will be
brief questions, not speeches. I
emphasise question should be directed to the chair of the select committee, not the government minister, but the Frontbench can
take part in questioning. take part in questioning.
13:49
Bill Esterson MP (Sefton Central, Labour)
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It gives me great pleasure to present our first report of the
session which is following on very
nicely from the statement from the
secretary of state and I thank my
friend for their contributions throughout the inquiry. The
Secretary of State addresses the plans raised about planning on the part of ensuring infrastructure is
built and he said we must have this
in the right places to provide power and that has to be affordable for businesses and consumers and his focus on the serious problems of
high energy prices was very welcome
and something the committee has taken evidence on, most recently
yesterday, where a crisis in the
industry caused by uncompetitive energy prices was referred to.
In
the report we consider the SSEP and the Secretary of State said it would
be published next year and we welcome this and it is in the report. We want to see greater
report. We want to see greater
clarity on how the Clean Power 2030
Action Plan and the SSEP cover this. There are a set of planning consent
and the fact that it requires a grid connection. I was happy to hear him
connection. I was happy to hear him
connection.
I was happy to hear him
make his statement on the SSEP but I would encourage this to be sooner rather than later. The country invested in a super grid, secure infrastructure designed to meet
growing energy needs are designed to give us 30 years of resilience. By
the 1980s, the grid was coming under strain and required investment and
the government privatise it. Malcolm Rifkind provided the rationale and
said the energy industry should make its own decisions based on need and
resources it can raise to fund investment.
Unshackled from the
state, he said energy structure was expected to attract its own investment. But the promised private
funding did not materialise. At the time, in this House, a rising star
of the Labour Party, shadow energy
secretary at the time, Tony Blair, challenged the market-led approach
and said, "Even when the energy industry is private abroad, in most
instances, decisions are taken by companies, not governments, and this
-- governments, not companies, and this underlines the stupidity of
energy policy determined by the interests of the private sector and
the decision is most critical to securing long-term future supply other decisions least suited to the inevitable short-term demands of the
market." The predictions of the
then-future Prime Minister were sadly accurate.
We are saying issues
with nuclear and gas and the reality remains the same, we opted to require overdue upgrades to the
energy network. The strategic direction of the government is clear, to build and deliver the
energy infrastructure which will cut carbon emissions and improve supply
and the threat of growing international threats and reduce energy costs for households and
businesses in the long term. If we get this right, the UK has the opportunity to become a global
leader, not only in developing low- carb into structure but managing the
system.
It is the top priority for
the government. We want Britain to stand on our own 2 feet and produce
energy on land, what are insurers, overseas. We want the opportunity to
seize control of household bills. The little consent and public support for the transition are
essential because the national security of Britain depends on it.
The government has set ambitious targets for the transition to clean energy, underpinned by international
commitments and legal obligations of your progress will depend on not high-level debates about ideology or
party politics but whether we can construct the law-carbon and transmission infrastructure required
to meet the goals in practice.
That
is where the policy statements come in. They provide essential planning guidance for local and national
authorities on how to propose energy infrastructure and how this interacts with land-use plans. We
interacts with land-use plans. We
called the report what we called it, 'Gridlock or Growth?, because of the
get it right, we can do more. Too
many speculative projects are
plugging the queue. They are seizing up the system. One of the clearest
findings is the need for commonsense reform.
The government is right to propose moving away from a purely
market-driven system because that system, left unchecked, has led to the current gridlock. Planning
authorities cannot remain blind to the chances of the project to secure
a grid connection and the prospects should become a material consideration in the consent
process. It is sensible at this time to have a craving hand and
prioritise the projects most likely to deliver the need and to build the necessary transmission infrastructure and to get the energy
to businesses and households across the country.
Of course, none of this will work without proper planning
consent. In turn, that depends on meaningful engagement between
developers and communities. This engagement would be focused on the issues before they become
entrenched. It is a key part of avoiding lengthy and expensive legal challenges which have held back the
British energy sector and too often there have been issues with the
windfarms and pylons required becoming flashpoints of local opposition. Abilities are often
consulted to lead to be involved in the outcome or do not understand the
trade-off involved.
People are told underground or offshore options might cause more and lead to higher
bills and that can make them more open to other options. Similarly, the committee recommends that nature
-positive infrastructure projects can engage better galvanise public
support for development and this should be the presumption of
avoiding building lands on deep
avoiding building lands on deep
peat. And NESO this is before the consent stage and the government was
to engage with communities to
identify potential gaps, explore mitigation options, commit to delivering them.
We heard that a significant proportion of proposed litigation, despite having funding
allocated, it is never delivered and the failure to deliver this erodes
public trust in the process. The result of poor consultation as
nobody is satisfied and communities of, developers face legal costs, planners have unnecessary burdens, and confidence in the system is
undermined. The principles are simple, put the right projects in
place through direction from the centre, secure consent by building trust in the system and early engagement and proper enforcement,
and build the infrastructure.
The
Clean Power Plan has promoted and we have investment supported by the
Industrial Strategy. Lower bills, greater security and stability of energy supply are there for the
taking. Let's take it and move towards drawers. I commend this
statement to the House.
13:58
Wera Hobhouse MP (Bath, Liberal Democrat)
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Referred how important it is to get community support for
infrastructure and the committee
supports consent for this but as we
have found that in the committee and said in the report, we have serious concerns about the potential impact on biodiversity and lack of delivery
on promised ecological litigation.
Does he agree is essential for us to
ensure it is delivered in a genuinely nature-positive way.
13:59
Bill Esterson MP (Sefton Central, Labour)
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I thank her and her contribution
is invaluable in discussions and questions you put two witnesses and
she rightly raises the issue of the
nature mitigations we raised in the inquiry and we have heard that all
too often developers don't put in the mitigations they are required to
and it's important and it is a recommendation, as she implies, the government, to make sure developers
carry out obligations and implement
the improvements that she refers to.
the improvements that she refers to.
13:59
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Thank you to the chair of the committee for leading us through the support. There are challenges to government and in this case it is
right to call out that, while the Department is doing great things and
working at pace, we must make sure that everything is joined up and
coordinated including the new SSEP to make sure solutions that are nature positive I joined up. Do they
agree that the Department must make sure that file be deliberate pace we must send one coherent message to the market?
14:00
Bill Esterson MP (Sefton Central, Labour)
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I'm grateful for the
contribution. My honourable friend joined the committee recently and has grabbed the agenda with both
hands, being one of our most assiduous attendees. I think he and
the honourable lady match each other on attendance so I do not want to give the wrong impression. He is
quite correct that we need government to engage with the
recommendations or enforcement of nature -positive solutions. I think
it gives the opportunity to reiterate the point there is confusion between whether the need
for planning consent proceeds grid
connection or the other way round
14:01
Rt Hon Sir Edward Leigh MP (Gainsborough, Conservative)
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We are in favour of green energy
linking to do a bit massive wind turbines in the North Sea. Will the committee do an in-depth report that
the sheer concentration of solar farms in Lincolnshire? 10,000 acres
around the one town of Gainsborough. I know that is the grid connection
which is important but surely the committee can play a useful part in saying that all parts of the country
should play their part because you cannot simply take 10,000 acres out of good agricultural production in one small part of England.
one small part of England.
14:02
Bill Esterson MP (Sefton Central, Labour)
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This is something that we looked at as part of this inquiry but we looked at more widely. I think it is
really important that those who are hosting major energy infrastructure are taken on board. We made recommendations about early
engagement, about listening, and not just ignoring what local communities
say. About the potential for
rerouting sites or routes for pylons, talking about solar farms, are there other options, and having
proper engagement. There is good evidence that when engagement is
done in the correct way, compromise is often possible and, whilst not
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everybody is going to be happy, there are definitely better ways these things can be done. Thank you Madam Deputy Speaker.
14:02
Rachel Taylor MP (North Warwickshire and Bedworth, Labour)
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Thank you Madam Deputy Speaker. Can I commend the work of the committee and my honourable friend
committee and my honourable friend in this area. The comments on the report echo what National Grid told
me when I visited their operation in my constituency. Does he agree with
me that the government's work on the Planning and Infrastructure Bill has also paved the way for
infrastructure projects to be able to be delivered much more quickly?
Does he agree with me that businesses like JLR who have got their battery assembly plant in my
constituency, will welcome the work of his committee but also the government's work on delivering
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vital infrastructure? I am grateful to her. It is an
14:03
Bill Esterson MP (Sefton Central, Labour)
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I am grateful to her. It is an excellent point, and are good crossover between the planning and infrastructure legislation going
through Parliament and the amendments that were made to the national policy statement. Our
recommendations pick up some of that linkage between the two. I think the
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key point is how do we speed up the process, and get on with building the infrastructure as she says. Thank you Madam Deputy Speaker.
14:04
Claire Young MP (Thornbury and Yate, Liberal Democrat)
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Thank you Madam Deputy Speaker.
The report highlights ambiguity about what is set centrally by government and what is expected from industry. The select committee has
heard separately outside of this report evidence on tidal range power, and has also heard of
innovative approaches on visits.
Does the chair share my concern about the ambiguity highlighted the confusion it causes could lead to
the UK missing out on opportunities to be a world leader in alternative types of generation? Would he agree
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that this confusion needs to be clarified? I am very grateful to her for her
14:04
Bill Esterson MP (Sefton Central, Labour)
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I am very grateful to her for her contribution. And an assiduous
contribution. And an assiduous attender again. She makes the right point that where we have identified
areas of ambiguity, there is a lot around grid connection and planning in particular that I have touched on
before. The government needs to
clear this up, so developers can have the confidence and the certainty that they need, and we can
get on with the process of improving
the grid capacity connection and the supply of cheap clean energy.
14:05
Jenny Riddell-Carpenter MP (Suffolk Coastal, Labour)
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Thank you Madam Deputy Speaker. Could I thank the chair for his
thorough and interesting report? I look forward to reading it. I wonder
if he could comment on an amendment that I put forward to the Planning
and Infrastructure Bill? Suffolk Coastal may be hosting up to 20% of the U.K.'s transport future energy.
We have four exits within a five-
mile radius, and has been no coordination between the energy development for the planning and development of them. It has been
suggested that legally required
coordination is needed, so we can manage the mitigations, look at the
issues, and better plan and develop when these are being developed.
14:06
Bill Esterson MP (Sefton Central, Labour)
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Grateful to her, I think it is an important point that we have
coordination between projects. It is something we talked about in our
report, that this is the national policy statement. Strategically
important element of planning. So sympathetic to what she raised. I
think she will find some comments on some of the evidence we have heard
in our inquiry.
14:06
James Wild MP (North West Norfolk, Conservative)
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Thank you Madam Deputy Speaker. In North West Norfolk and across the county, there are plans for major
solar farms, substations, and infra structure taking high quality
agricultural land out of use of cumulative impact being ignored. Can I welcome the committee's
recommendation? Does he agree the
polling system should ensure that energy infrastructure is built on developed plans, brownfield land, industrial land, not best quality
agricultural land? Why did he think the government has so far failed to prioritise energy security in the
national policy statements?
14:07
Bill Esterson MP (Sefton Central, Labour)
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I am grateful to him void question. I think most of that
question probably better answered by ministers. As to what we found in
our evidence, it very much is the case that we have to work with the
communities to address the concerns that come from having significant
amounts of infrastructure where they are being hosted by local
communities including his. I think
the point about putting solar, or indeed windfarms, on brownfield land
is a good one anyway.
I'm not against that and I think that is part of what the government intends.
The point is there are occasions where that is not possible. The key thing I think is the engagement of
people who are demonstrating the
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case for where infrastructure has to go. That concludes the first Select
14:08
Select Committee Statement: Select Committee Statement on the Fourth Report of the Education Committee, Children’s Social Care, HC 430
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That concludes the first Select Committee statement. We now come onto the second Select Committee statement on behalf of the Education Committee. Helen Hayes will speak
Committee. Helen Hayes will speak for up to 10 minutes during which no interventions may be taken. At the conclusion of her statement, I will
call members to ask questions on the subject of the statement was top these should be brief questions not full speeches. Can I emphasise that
questions should be directed to the select committee chair and not the
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relevant Government Minister. Front Benches may take part in questioning. I call Helen Hayes. Thank you Madam Deputy Speaker. I
14:09
Helen Hayes MP (Dulwich and West Norwood, Labour)
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Thank you Madam Deputy Speaker. I am grateful to the Backbench Business Committee for allocating time for this statement. Today I
time for this statement. Today I speak on behalf of the Education Select Committee and more importantly the thousands of children across England whose lives
are profoundly shaped by our
children's social care system. I want to put on record my thanks to the committee clerks and specialist to have supported this inquiry, and
to the young adults with recent experience of the care system who came to give oral evidence in person
to the committee.
Georgia, Jake,
Lemar, and Luis. I know it was not easy to speak about the challenges
you have faced including experiences that no child should have to endure. But by doing so you have helped to
shape a report and ensure that young people have been at the centre of our inquiry and we are grateful. Children and social care provide
essential support to some of the most vulnerable young people. The faced trauma, neglect, abuse, briefings, and instability. They
need not only protection but also love, stability, and the opportunity
to thrive.
In December 2023, a predecessor committee launched an inquiry into the state of children's social care. Following the general
election, my committee resolved to
continue this critical work. Our inquiry builds on substantial evidence including the Independent Review of Children's Social Care
published in 2022 which concluded that the system was failing to meet children's needs. The evidence we
have received from parents, young people, social workers, local authorities and academics and
charities confirm any of these problems persist. The system is
under significant strain.
Rising need stretched budgets and workforce shortages are compromising the ability to put children at the heart
of the system. We have seen a significant shift in the profile of spending on children's social care
from spend on early help services has fallen 31% in real terms over
the last decade, spent on costly crisis interventions which has rocketed. This imbalance is
unsustainable. The 2022 independent review proposed a £2.6 billion uplift in children's social care spending between 2023 and 2027, with
£1 billion annually ring fenced for family help services to shift focus forward toward early intervention.
This recommendation has not been fully implement it. There's been rising need for children's social
care over the past decade, with a number of looked after standing at
almost 84,000 in 2024. An increase of over 20% since 2014. These
pressures reflect broader social and economic challenges, poverty is a key driver of social care
involvement, and the forthcoming child poverty strategy must be ambitious. Aiming to significantly reduce the number of children
growing up in financial hardship. We urge the government to Allah straight substantial portion of the funding from the spending review, to
restore early intervention services
to 2010 levels in real terms.
Prevention is not only the right thing to do by children and their families but it is also more cost-
effective. A shortage of appropriate placement for looked after is a
critical issue. 2024, 5% of looked after were placed outside the local authority and 22% were placed over
20 miles from home, disrupting education, relationships, and
exacerbating trauma. We call on the
Department for education to publish a national sufficiency strategy for children's social care. Requiring every local authority to develop
plans to reduce out of area placement and demonstrate how they are implementing best practice.
Not every local authority sends children
far away from home and we believe more can be done to reduce the
sample practice. The children's social care market is failing to deliver for children and local authorities. The excessive profits
of some providers are unacceptable. And reports of financial instability amongst some large operators IDB
concerning. The Children's Wellbeing and Schools Bill includes provisions to reform this market which we
welcome. However these measures must be closely monitored. The department should provide annual updates to
Parliament on the impact, and if the
profit cap is introduced, my committee must be consulted on draft
regulations.
Our inquiry examined all forms of children's social care. Foster care, adoption, kinship carer, residential care, and support
for disabled children. Within foster care the most common placement type, there is a shortage of approximately
6500 carers. We urge the Department to develop a national fostering strategy. Simply continuing to advertise for more foster carers
will not be sufficient, and work is needed to address some of the practical barriers which stop foster
carers from being able to sign up once they show an interest in doing
so.
In particular we are calling for collaboration with the Ministry of Housing community is a local
government, to ensure that housing policy supports foster care and
recruitment. Kinship carer is a vital option for many children. The forthcoming kinship carer allowance pilot must provide financial support
equivalent to that of foster carers. And we call for legislation to guarantee kinship leave
entitlements. For adopted children, the Adoption and Special Guardianship Support Fund must be made permanent to eliminate annual
funding uncertainty. While we support the emphasis on kinship and foster care, high quality
residential care remains essential for some children.
Reports that
children placed in unsuitable settings such as caravans and boats I can be unacceptable. The opposite
of child-centred approach. The regulation and inspection regime for supportive accommodation as a positive step but universal care
standards must apply across all placements. The social care
workforce is in crisis, with high turnover and overstretched staff increasing safeguarding risks. We
call for a competitive workforce strategy to improve retention and
reduce reliance on agency staff which increased by 38% over five
years to 2022.
Disabled children face significant barriers including
limited access to respite care and inconsistent assessments. We heard that support for disabled children
is often de-prioritised social
services focus on child protection concerns. And sometimes parents of disabled children are treated inappropriately with suspicion and subjected to inappropriate assessments without justification
when they need support. We urge the Department to impairment the Law Commissions proposals and establish
clear national eligibility criteria. Mental Health Support Teams is
another critical gap. Children in care are four times more likely to experience mental health challenges,
get access to services remains inadequate.
We recommend piloting colocated mental health services
between social care and cams, and strengthening mental health
assessments for children in care. It is essential that children in care have a voice when important
decisions are being made about their lives. Currently too few children are accessing the support they are
entitled to with an average referral rate of just 5% across local
authorities. We endorse the independent reviews proposals for an opt out model of independent advocacy for all children in care,
to ensure their voices are heard.
Reunification with birth families when safe and appropriate can be a positive outcome for children and parents. Whether current practice is inconsistent. The Department must
evaluate reunification practice and publish national guidance to ensure
it is prioritised when suitable and in the best interest of the child. There were 49,000 children on child
protection plans in 2024, an increase of 1600 on 2014. Neglect
remains a significant concern and we call for a national survey on abuse
and neglect and a dedicated national neglect strategy.
Finally and most concerning Lee, support for young
people when they leave care is simply not good enough. Care leavers
have some of the poorest outcomes in society across a range of measures.
39% of care leavers aged 19 to 21 are not in education, training or employment, compares to 13% of all young people that age group. It is
estimated that one quarter of homeless people have been in care. Care leavers still face a cliff edge
on support on turning 18. We have heard of young people having to drop
a levelled and struggle to afford rent while in full-time education at the age of just 18.
The Department
for education must develop a National Care Offer to ensure minimum standards of support across the country and review and approve the financial and housing support
available to care leavers. Our children deserve a compassionate
coherent and effective social care system which places their needs at the centre. Behind every statistic
is a child deserve the same opportunities as their peers to feel safe, loved, and empowered to
thrive. The recommendations provide
a roadmap to reform. We urge the government to act swiftly in addressing rising need, restore early intervention, reform the
delivery of care placement and ensure the workforce is supported
and stop cliff edge at age 18.
We
owe it to the children to build a system that is not many reactive but restorative, not just efficient but compassionate, and not only functional but translational. Thank
functional but translational. Thank
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And I congratulate her on this report and thank her for her work on it. I want to welcome the recommendations on kinship care
14:18
Munira Wilson MP (Twickenham, Liberal Democrat)
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recommendations on kinship care which mirror very closely the measures that I put in my Ten Minute Rule bill I introduced in this place
three years ago and that we in the Lib Dems benches have been campaigning on and I hope she will
work across party to ensure the government goes further and faster on kinship care. I wanted to pick up
her recommendations on the adoption special guardianship support fund.
She and I know how distressed families are of children who have been adopted or put into kinship care who need the support.
Does she
agree with me that it's a very small amount of money that if the fund
could be slightly expanded, then all children could go back to having the level of support they had before the cuts were introduced a few months
ago.
14:19
Helen Hayes MP (Dulwich and West Norwood, Labour)
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I thank her for her question and
all of her interest and work in this important subject area. On the adoption special guardianship support fund, the report make strong
recommendations about the need to make the bond permanent and the need
for the government to evaluate the impact of the cut in the short term
and to review and make changes to the level of the funding of that is needed. We know the government is
also looking at changes and improvements in mental health services, so that more children who
are adopted can get support through the mainstream of health services
without having to rely on specialist funding as a supplement for that.
We think the government should look carefully at how that goes, but not
be hesitant to make changes to restore the fund if that is needed following monitoring.
14:20
Mark Sewards MP (Leeds South West and Morley, Labour)
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Thank you. I'm pleased to have contributed to this report is a
member of the Education Select Committee led by my honourable
friend and I do want to thank the clerks and staff for all of their work on the committee. It's good to
see the report stage has been welcomed by care leavers charities as well. I would like to ask her to expand on the section about keeping
children safe. The evidence we heard from our witnesses during the inquiry was that the Children's
Wellbeing and Schools Bill's was
going to do a lot to address their concerns about keeping children in care safe, but despite this we have still made recommendations about
multiagency working.
We have recommended those agencies have
clear processes in place so that they can review and escalate concerns between their different agencies with a clear line of
accountability and decision-making to keep children safe, to stop them falling through the gaps. Does my
honourable friend agree with me that it should be a priority for the department to get these processes in
place to stop these children from falling through the gaps?
14:21
Helen Hayes MP (Dulwich and West Norwood, Labour)
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I thank him for his question and all of his contribution to this
report today. He is right, he will recall the very distressing evidence that we took, which came in the very
short aftermath of the verdict in the case of the person who was so badly let down by services that had multiple opportunities to intervene
to keep her safe and failed to do so. So we welcome the steps the government is taking to the Children's Wellbeing and Schools
Bill to strengthen joint working, particularly through the single
child identifier and other measures around multiagency working
practises.
We are calling for the government to go further because none of us can tolerate seeing any
more of those tragic cases in the headlines, the names of the children that we remember who are failed by services that should be there to
protect them.
14:22
Rt Hon Sir John Hayes MP (South Holland and The Deepings, Conservative)
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I'm grateful to the chairman of the Select Committee for her report, the way she introduced it and the
work she has done. I particularly moved by what she said about disabled children. I wonder if she
looked in those terms the relationship of special needs education because there is a close association between the two.
Further, whether she looked to the quality of parenting. I have to tell
you I was at a school just a week
ago in my constituency, they were telling the children and presented to school very poorly parented stop this is related to the subject which
she studies.
Not all children, of
course, but too many are suffering in that way.
14:23
Helen Hayes MP (Dulwich and West Norwood, Labour)
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I think the right honourable gentleman for his question and his interest in this area of work --
thank. My committee is looking separately at the issue of Special
Educational Needs and Disabilities and we expect to be able to report
very shortly on that and that is an expensive and lengthy inquiry. He is of course right that there is some overlap in one of the things we've
heard from families with disabled children in relation to children social care was about the multiple difficulties they face with
different parts of the system that is not joined up enough to support them.
On his question about
parenting, that speaks very directly to our recommendation about the need
to shift to early intervention and help and support and I welcome the government's announcement this week
about to start family hubs and the expansion of those services. They
are trying to do exactly that and we will keep a close watch on how that goes over the coming months.
14:24
Jess Asato MP (Lowestoft, Labour)
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Would like to thank my honourable friend for her statement and like her, pay tribute to the care leavers
who spoke to us. Often sharing deeply dramatic stories of their
journey through the care system. The parent is ultimately the state and
we as its custodians must bear the responsibility of making sure we support children and care as if they
are our own children. Does my honourable friend agree with me, that is why the committee's recommendation that the government
should implement a national care leavers offer is so important to guarantee a consistent approach
across local authorities?
14:24
Helen Hayes MP (Dulwich and West Norwood, Labour)
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I thank her for her question and
for her contribution to this report drawing on her own very deep
experience in the sector prior to coming to this place. I agree with her. I should say many of us come to
the subject area also as parents and as the parent of a 19-year-old and a
16-year-old, the stories we have heard on our committee of children
just cut adrift by services at the age of 18, when we still need young people, they are still growing to
adult hood, they still need so much
help and support.
Heartbreaking and unacceptable. That's why we are calling for National Care Offer so
that wherever they are in the country, care leavers can know that there is a guaranteed level of support to help them into the next stages of life.
14:25
Josh Newbury MP (Cannock Chase, Labour)
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I welcome this report and I look forward to reading it in detail. I
would like to thank the committee for all of its work on this important matter and the chair for introducing excellent
recommendations so come principally. I would like to touch on two points,
I declare an interest as a foster care or an adoptive parent and I fully endorsed a report highlighting the huge widening gap in foster
carers. The emotional appeal for foster carers says powerful, but as a committee of said, it is not
enough to stop with the chair agree with me that properly recognising the effort and complexity involved in foster placement is urgently
needed, most urgently for people in
care.
On support for care leavers, I have heard from all too many who on reaching 18 move out of the Council
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area where they were taken into care. I would also like to endorse the call for national care Labour option as well. I thank him for this question and
14:26
Helen Hayes MP (Dulwich and West Norwood, Labour)
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I thank him for this question and bring his pulse mill experience to this debate -- personal expense. I
this debate -- personal expense. I agree with him, we look in detail at this issue in the gap between the
numbers of people expressing an interest in foster care, compared with those who actually sign up and become foster carers of children is
so enormous, that we focused our attention on some of the practical
barriers that are needed, that prevent people from becoming foster
carers and particularly on housing, for foster carers who might be living in social housing, the
housing policy does not adequately support what is often the same responsibility of the local
authority, but is there landlord, when people want to come forward but they don't have enough space at
home.
We think there is more that can be done in that space to overcome the practical barriers foster carers face.
14:27
Points of Order
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That concludes a Select Committee statement. Point of order.
14:27
Rt Hon Sir John Hayes MP (South Holland and The Deepings, Conservative)
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You will not know, but I have learned that independent experts
advise the Lincolnshire polices that risk of issuing a section 114 notice. That's the equivalent of a
public body declaring it can no longer balance its budget. This
comes after a long campaign that has been run by myself and fellow colleagues about the Lincolnshire
police fund more generally. Has the home secretary instructed you that
she intends to come to the House to address this? For the people of
Lincolnshire are acutely worried that policing services in our county
will cease to protect them and the risk and reality of crime and disorder.
14:28
Judith Cummins MP (Bradford South, Labour)
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I thank him for his point of order. The chair has had no notice
that the government intends to make a statement. I am sure the government Front Benches will have
heard his comments and they are now
in the record. The ayes
14:28
Rt Hon Sir Edward Leigh MP (Gainsborough, Conservative)
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I want to make a different point
of order. Have the government told you that they are going to come
today to make a statement on cross channel crossings? The channel is in
chaos today, already 220 people
across 1195 who arrived on 1 June. President Macron and Prime Minister Starmer say this cannot go on. This
is an existential crisis for our country. In this vital issue, have they come to you Madam Deputy Speaker and said they want to make a
statement today?
14:29
Judith Cummins MP (Bradford South, Labour)
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I thank you for giving me notice of his point of order. I can confirm
that the chair has had no notice from the government that they intend to make such a statement today. The
government front bunch -- Frontbench will of heard his concern on this.
will of heard his concern on this.
14:29
Presentation of Bills
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Presentation bills.
14:29
Backbench Business: General debate on the attainment and engagement of boys in education
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Tomorrow. We now come to the Backbench debate on attainment and engagement of boys in education. I
call Sam Rushworth who will speak for around 15 minutes.
14:29
Sam Rushworth MP (Bishop Auckland, Labour)
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Thank you and can I also thank the Backbench Business Committee for
granting me today's debate and colleagues across the House for their interest in what I believe is
one of the most overlooked and consequential challenges of our time. The underachievement of boys
at every stage of education. This debate is not about grievance, it's
about evidence. I hope that today we
can focus on the data and the consequences and the things that must change to do better by our
boys.
Not instead of girls, but
alongside them. I am also proud to have someone in the gallery with us
this afternoon, to work experience students for my constituency. They
have helped me prepare for today's debate, working alongside my parliamentary assistant. They have done so with thoughtfulness,
curiosity and maturity. I hope their presence here today is a reminder of the promise that exists in young
the promise that exists in young
We cannot ignore the reality that too many of our boys are being left behind by system that does not fully
see them.
It does not expect much from them all equip them with the tools to thrive. Let's start with
the facts. By Key Stage 2 Max, only
55 only 55 757% of boys make expected standards in reading writing and maths. It is way behind
girls. In their GCSE exams, boys on
average achieve half a grade lower than girls across every subject. At A levels, girls outperform boys by
an average of over a grade and 1/2 across the best three subjects.
Girls are even pulling ahead in the UTA level qualification was to just
30.4% of 18 year old boys went to higher education last year compared
to 40% of girls.
Boys make up over 70% of permanent school exclusions
and 95% of young people in custody.
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He has mentioned eight in nine men in prison report they have been
men in prison report they have been excluded from school. I was a secondary school teacher before I entered Parliament and the
attainment gap was a big worry. My biggest worry was that we don't respond properly to people who are
respond properly to people who are neurodiverse. And cater for them and
neurodiverse. And cater for them and understand there are about 20% of our young people including girls who are different learners.
Our curriculum does not really cater for
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curriculum does not really cater for them. Does he share my concerns? I do share that concern. I think
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I do share that concern. I think we should have a full debate on the way that we address that issue as well as young care leavers. We know
well as young care leavers. We know what the prison population looks like. It is an excellent point. This
like. It is an excellent point. This is not just about adolescence. It actually begins in early years. By
actually begins in early years. By the end of reception, just 60.7% of
the end of reception, just 60.7% of boys are assessed as school ready.
Compares to 75% of girls. It is a point I will return to later in my speech. Where does it end? 1/4 of a
speech. Where does it end? 1/4 of a million young men aged 16 to 24 are
classified as NEETs. It is 70% higher than the number for young
women. This is a postcode increase of 40% for young males compared to
just a 7% increase for young females. What is more, as the Centre for Social Justice reported recently, for those young men who
are in work, the gender pay gap has
been reversed.
Young men are now out earned by their female peers including those university educated.
The national challenges acute constituencies like mine and across
former coalfield in the north-east where too often, working-class boys
start behind and stay behind. I did not call this debate today merely to
highlight the issue. I wanted to lead to action. And I'm calling for
real change. This begins with taking the issue seriously, and what
concerns me most is not just data but the absence of outrage and lack of urgency.
It wasn't always this
way. In the 1970s and 1980s, it was girls who are lagging behind. The
government rightly took action to improve outcomes for girls, introducing targeted support, challenging curriculum bias,
expanding grammar schools for girls and promoting girls access. These
were not small tweaks, they were deliberate strategic interventions and they worked. Now that the
situation is reversed with boys persistently underachieving, where is the strategy? I'm not talking
about a general strategy to address deprivation or educational
disadvantage but a specific evidence-based deliverable strategy around boys and young men which
addresses the gender-based aspects of underachievement.
The foundation
of the strategy must be a resolve to stop naming boys and start
rebuilding their self worth. There was a time in the 70s society did
the same to girls. It became known as the deficit approach because it attributed girls underachievement
relative to boys to a lack of effort
or a deficiency in them, rather than the failings and limitations of the education system, or prevalent
socio-economic trends. The so-called biological determinist argued that gender differences were natural and
could not be altered.
Simply put, girls were not as bright. Thankfully
those nonsense theories have been well and truly bunked when it comes
to girls. But too often when it comes to boys, the tone shifts to
blame. It is as if boys underachievement is seen as self- inflicted, a product of laziness and
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a so-called toxic masculinity. I am very grateful to the
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I am very grateful to the honourable Member for giving way. I take him on securing this incredibly
take him on securing this incredibly important debate. In my 8 1/2 years teaching in inner-city schools, I have to say, and this goes for any groups not just for boys of any
groups not just for boys of any group, it is never a problem of just aspiration or lack of aspiration. It is always a problem of lack of
is always a problem of lack of access and lack of knowledge.
Does he agree?
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he agree? Absolutely. It is a point well made I hope we will have more
made I hope we will have more contributions of that nature today. Boys are not the problem. The system
Boys are not the problem. The system is failing them. Of course we need to help boys to develop empathy, respect for those who are different,
respect for those who are different, self-control, and awareness of how words and actions affect others will
words and actions affect others will stop but can we please more careful not to tell boys that they are by
not to tell boys that they are by nature toxic, or that 2025, they are privileged simply by being male, and
privileged simply by being male, and many feel anything but.
They feel undervalued, distrusted, and anxious
they will never live up to society's expectations.
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The honourable gentleman has provoked me to intervene by his
provoked me to intervene by his insight. It is brave and wise of him to deconstruct the nonsense about
to deconstruct the nonsense about toxic masculinity. And also to emphasise that white working class
emphasise that white working class boys, the kind prevalent in his constituency, particularly
constituency, particularly disadvantaged by a system which is under estimated, indeed neglected
under estimated, indeed neglected their needs. As an education minister I did my best to address
minister I did my best to address this, but successive governments have been sufficient.
I congratulate him on bringing this debate and what he says in it.
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he says in it. Thank you for the intervention. I
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Thank you for the intervention. I hope he will still contribute. Boys
hope he will still contribute. Boys feel undervalued, distrusted and anxious they won't leave up to society expectations. Someone put it
society expectations. Someone put it recently like this, he said, "We are
very good at talking about privilege, white, male, or straight privilege but we rarely talk about class. That is a lot of the reason
class. That is a lot of the reason all the young lads are seduced by demigods like Andrew Tate.
They are being shamed all the time and made to feel like they are a problem. It
is this narrative been told to white boys from nowhere towns. People
preached some kid in a Pitt Town in Durham who has nothing until his privilege. Then Andrew Tate tells
him he is worth something. It is
seductive. " We can't leave that space to be filled by online influencers selling toxic answers. We have to offer something better,
the purpose of hope. Evidence shows that boys thrive when, rather than
treat them as a problem, they are trusted within a culture of high expectations.
When we set them up to
succeed, and when they know their learning is relevant and will take them somewhere. The coded message in
our current curriculum is that society values academic excellence
overdevelopment of technical skills and know-how. It is as if we have
replaced the 11+ with a 16+ exam. Where those who get good GCSE
results, those who pass, go on to sit A-levels which give higher
esteem. And those who fail are pushed onto vocational courses as though the skills are less than.
A
good example of a school bucking this trend attended by some of young people from my constituency is
university technical College. Ofsted recently rated it as one of the
happiest schools in the country. I have met some of the students. They
all have familiar stories about how they were previously suspended or troubled all-time at school. When
they attended the UTC, they found
purpose, built relationships, and it works. Children are thriving, boys
included. Elsewhere, schools working
with the " Yes we can" program are
closing gaps and I looked up to see where Jim Shannon was when I
mentioned Ulster, but disengage boys, understanding them.
Another
boys, understanding them. Another
example is a company that will take them from age 14 to give them work expense was I welcome the government's industrial strategy. I
think it is really exciting that the first time in a long time we are seeing a real effort to create
meaningful career pathways into the sort of secure jobs that young people in the north-east used to be
able to aspire to. Another good
example is the plan to build 1.5 million homes.
We know we can't do that unless we have more skilled young people coming into the
professions. Last week I spent half
a day with some young apprentices bricklaying in my constituency. It
was fabulous to see these young people who really had a sense of direction. I knew that in a few
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years they would be earning good salaries, and able to build good family lives. I thank my honourable friend for
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I thank my honourable friend for giving way. He is giving a truly
giving way. He is giving a truly insightful and much needed speech on this important matter. Will he join
this important matter. Will he join me in recognising the importance of pre-apprenticeship work as well for those younger boys not yet ready to
those younger boys not yet ready to take on apprenticeships, and the
value of some of that voluntary organisations like in my constituency?
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constituency? It is a good example of why we need to create these pathways. Let
need to create these pathways. Let me say, I'm not calling for us to stop encouraging young men to go to university. I am a working class lad
university. I am a working class lad and I was much better suited to
and I was much better suited to going the academic route than I was to working as a mechanic or something as those who have ever
something as those who have ever seen me put up a shelf will attest.
But what I am calling for is for greater parity of esteem. For respect for all skills. And for
respect for all skills. And for earlier opportunities, as my honourable Friend pointed out, for earlier opportunities for people to
earlier opportunities for people to feel valued. And finally I would
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like to turn attention to... I'm going to praise again. He's
actually right about revaluing
actually right about revaluing practical learning. Like him I was not clever enough to be practical and I had to become academic. Re- establishing the idea that
establishing the idea that vocational tactical accomplishment
vocational tactical accomplishment has at least equal powers, I think greater prowess is fundamental. Can
greater prowess is fundamental. Can I add, he will know of the movement
typically for older men, but I visited in Long Sutton, and there is
visited in Long Sutton, and there is a youth shed bringing young people into the community which is male,
into the community which is male, allowing boys to share and learn and grow.
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grow. Thank you. I am going to speed through the rest because I'm conscious of time on other people's
conscious of time on other people's contributions. Let me just say, we want young boys to go to university and I used to tutor for a club in
and I used to tutor for a club in the north-east. It was about young people who may be their parents did
people who may be their parents did go to university and helping them to have that aspiration.
To realise that what they could do as well.
Finally if I may turn to early years, as I said at the beginning, a
lot of this is set before the age of five. We know even by the age of
five boys behind girls. There are something of good things that this government is doing that I think are
important in this regard. They include the Best Start family hub
announced this week which is not just about children be able to access support but parents.
I know
as a parent myself that I have raised my seven year old son much better than I raised my 18 year old
son because I made so many mistakes in knowing how to help him. Too
often I tried to use a sort of carrot and stick approach and did not understand well enough how to
help him to reflect on his behaviour. Although they are both wonderful boys. The free breakfast
clubs initiative, is about so much more than just breakfast. I recently
visited Cockfield Primary School since they were an early adopter of
the scheme, attendance went from 10 or 12 children to 60 children every morning.
And I met children who used
to have difficulty being on time or who are regularly absent, and was told how they are now coming and
thriving. And a wise head teacher there was not as using the scheme to feed the children but they were
engaged in meaningful activities that helped to develop the social emotional skills. Until I was
elected I was a governor of another primary school in County Durham
where we introduced a specialist SEL program, and this is about helping
children to develop so-called 21st- century skills.
It was like
emotional self-regulation, recognising what they are feeling, self-awareness, social awareness, empathy, how to build health and
relationships. Within a year of that scheme being introduced, the teacher
reported remarkable differences and parents coming in and saying something is happening to my child
because they are so much calmer and so much more willing to manage their
behaviour. There are real opportunities for us in the breakfast clubs, in the free school meal provision, in the Best Start
family hubs.
It is not just about increased funding it is about
content. If I have one ask the Minister today it would be to give
30 minutes of time either herself or some of her officials to meet with me people I used to work within this
field who have developed these really useful tools that can be
really useful tools that can be
In conclusion, we need a strategy
for boys attainment. Cross party, evidence-based and rooted in fairness. It should recognise gender
bias and engage boys.
Should embed
social learning throughout the Iraqi them -- curriculum, expand vocational and technical pathways, recognising different routes to
success, promote leadership opportunities for boys in school
life and most important, ensure transparent data to hold ourselves
accountable nationally and locally. This isn't just a debate about attainment, it's about dignity.
About who we see and who we invest
in. I don't want boys anywhere to feel like the system has no place
for them. I want them to feel seen, supported and believed in.
Because
when we raise the floor for those who are struggling, we lift the whole classroom. Let us act with
clarity and courage that we showed a generation ago for girls, our boys
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in our society deserve nothing less. The question is as on the order paper.
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paper. Can I congratulate my honourable
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Can I congratulate my honourable friend on securing this debate and on his excellent speech. As chair of
the Education Select Committee, I want to see every child and young person engaged in learning throughout their time in education. Helped to find their individual
interests and passions, whether those are academic, vocational or a
mix of both. And have built a strong foundation from which they can thrive beyond their time in
14:48
Helen Hayes MP (Dulwich and West Norwood, Labour)
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thrive beyond their time in education and into adulthood. The work of my committee and our predecessor committee has heard about the many and varied differences between groups of
children and young people and the need to do more to close these gaps
in participation and attainment. The predecessor committee launched an inquiry on the topic of educational attainment of boys, but the calling
of the snap general election last summer meant the committee never met
to discuss the evidence received from stakeholders. I have drawn on
that evidence in preparing for this debate.
The Association of school and college leaders is clear that it's important not to generalise on the issue of boys educational
engagement and attainment. Many boys achieve well in education, demonstrating good engagement and
achieving qualifications which allow them to move onto the next stage of their education or into an apprenticeship where their first
job. There are particular groups of boys who perform less well than similar groups of girls. Taking into an understanding this detail is an
important part of addressing the disparities.
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I'm really fascinated about what
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I'm really fascinated about what I here today. I met with my constituent who is working with the Center for social justice about improving the outcome for boys and I
improving the outcome for boys and I encourage everyone who is interested in this to read the latest report,
in this to read the latest report, lost boys, does she agree that we need a national strategy to address
the underachievement of some boys?
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I thank her for her intervention. Reflecting on what my honourable friend said in his opening speech, I
friend said in his opening speech, I do believe there is a need for a strategic approach to this. As I will come on to talk about, on my committee we are looking at the
committee we are looking at the issue of inclusive education and how we can make changes in the system that helps schools to respond in a
that helps schools to respond in a more defined way to the needs of individual children.
I believe through some of those techniques we can create an education system that
can create an education system that really works for everybody. In particular, when we think about the
particular, when we think about the groups of boys that do not thrive so
well in education. We know that white British boys, black Caribbean
white British boys, black Caribbean boys and mixed white and black Caribbean boys eligible for free school meals have particularly low
levels of attainment, as do those from Gypsy, Roma or travellers of Irish heritage.
Differences between
boys and girls emerge in the early years in preschool phase and continue right through to higher
education. There is a difference in speech and oral language development between boys and girls from the
earliest years, reflected in a gender gap in phonics performance in
year one. With the exception of maths, girls outperform boys in both
Key Stage 1 and Key Stage 2. Particularly in reading and writing will stop at the end of reception year, aged around five, three
quarters of girls had a good level of development compared to under two thirds of boys.
At key stage IV,
girls outperform boys at all of the headline DfE measures, with 68% of girls in state-funded schools
achieving both English and maths GCSE's at grade 4 or above, five%
higher than the rate for boys. Progression to higher education is higher for young women at the age of
19 and for young men with higher rates of dropout for young men and
young women amongst those who take up place at University. Despite entering the workforce with lower qualifications on average for women,
men still earn more on average with the gender pay gap growing over time.
This is an area of policy that requires complex and nuanced
consideration. Is this difference between girls and boys attainment
due to a continued improvement over
many years in the attainment of girls due to challenges of specific groups of boys or a mixture of both?
And what can and should be done to address these disparities? The evidence the committee received reveals different views on what
steps should be taken throughout school and university. One viewpoint
is taking steps to achieve engagement and attainment for everybody will naturally help to approve engagement and attainment for those groups of boys
demonstrating the biggest gender gap.
The OECD report on gender
education and skills, the persistence of gender gaps in education and skills published in 2023 stated that gender disparities
in school performances and the resultant career choices do not stem
from innate differences in aptitude, but rather their attitudes towards learning and behaviour in school.
From how they choose to spend their
leisure time and the confidence they have or do not have in their abilities as students. Reading ability is a key cornerstone for
many other aspects of education and the seemingly continual decrease in the proportion of boys reading for pleasure over the years is one
important issue to tackle.
I commend the work that book trust is doing,
with children's laureate to promote the importance and joy of reading for pleasure and to encourage and
support more children to find their love of books. We know that screen time and the use of smartphones is
having profound impacts on children and young people at an increasingly young age. Amongst many of the harms
children are exposed to as a consequence of their engagement online, teachers, parents of young people themselves report exposure to toxic masculinity. We also know that
excessive screen time harms young people's sleep, reduces the attention span and affects their
ability to concentrate.
These are complex and difficult areas, but I
am clear that urgent action is needed to protect children from online harms and that taking steps
to promote positive role models and challenge unacceptable monocultures
on social media should be a priority. There is also a big difference in the proportion of male
and female teachers, particularly in primary schools. It's important that we continue to support and encourage more men to teach younger children.
Evidence to the Select Committee suggest that 1/4 of all state-funded
primary schools are without a single male classroom teacher.
It is
clearly important that we have women role models to encourage participation and engagement amongst girls, particularly in stem
subjects, but the same applies to boys. To see male teachers in the classroom and other wills all around
their education -- rolls around their education. There is a
difference in the presentation and
diagnosis, and educational needs and disabilities between boys and girls. Our work on the Education Select Committee is clear about the
failures of the current SEND system described as lose lose lose by the last conservative Secretary of State
for Education and the need to drive early education instead of allowing
early education instead of allowing
them to go and supported education.
EC HP's are more than twice as prevalent for boys and girls will stop 23% of boys were identified
with SCN compared to 13% of girls. Too many children struggle with dyslexia, the delays of assessing
pupils with social health and mental
health issues... My committee has been looking in detail at SEND for several months now and we will pull
-- shortly publish our report. We looked into a number of school
settings which are already delivering for SEND and it seems clear to me that some techniques that can be used to ensure every
child meets our net -- needs are met
in schools will also deliver specifically for boys who are underachieving.
For example, a high school in Norfolk which we visited a
couple of weeks ago and the secondary school in Ontario, we saw vocational subjects such as
constructive skills, horticulture and food production on offer alongside academic subjects. In a
way that helped to secure the interest and engagement of a wide range of pupils. We also know that changes to the curriculum by the
previous government have resulted in sharp decline in the availability of
some creative subjects and sport in our schools. I think all of us can
appreciate their importance of education a finding the things you love to do and can succeed at and
sustaining the motivation to participate in some aspects of education that are more challenging.
It's important we have an education system that can really deliver that
for every child. Every member of this House will remember that
special teacher who sparked a particular interest in the field of study or a passion for an area that particularly enthused and engaged
us. For me it was my former head
teacher at grammar school who was my English teacher and you taught me about debating and literature and
really took a close interest and it
made a huge difference.
Encouraging and tackling the recruitment and retention crisis in teaching, helping teachers to commit to stay
for the long term, so that children have that special relationship with staff is also so important. This
week my committee heard from a professor who is leading the government's curriculum and
assessment review. She is clear on both the importance and challenge of ensuring that every pupil, no matter
their background, can find themselves in the curriculum they are taught across a wide range of
subjects. Careful tracking of pupils
a rich and varied curriculum, exciting trips making every lesson engaging, making sure their opportunities to secure content that
might not have been fully grasped on the first attempt.
Teachers enthusiasm and knowledge are matched
by their skills, improved teacher training, time for CPD, strong leadership from school leaders and
improved engagement from parents and carers will all help every child to
achieve their full potential, that includes the groups of boys that are currently underperforming compared
to their peers. We must build an education system in which every
child can thrive, that requires an honest acknowledgment of the areas in which our system is currently failing, including for some groups
of boys.
A forensic understanding of the reasons why and the courage to
deliver reform that can make a difference. It's a vitally important issue and one in which my committee will continue to maintain a close interest.
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Members will have noticed that time is ticking on and I want to try
time is ticking on and I want to try to get as many people in as possible, so I would be grateful if members could limit their remarks to
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around four minutes. I would like to start by thanking my honourable friend for securing
14:59
Mrs Elsie Blundell MP (Heywood and Middleton North, Labour)
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my honourable friend for securing this crucial debate. The issue of attainment and engagement of boys,
especially working-class boys in their own education, is one that will determine how society will look
in the years and decades to come. Despite the importance of this topic, it has languished at the
bottom of the list when it comes to national priorities for far too long. In my constituency, I am proud
of the contributions made by teachers who work really hard to
leave no child behind, but until there are worthy interventions at a
national level to address the skill of the current crisis in the system when it comes to boys attainment, they will be doing so with one hand
tied behind their back.
This issue and its drivers have been misunderstood and misrepresented for
far too long. I am pleased to see MPs today grapple with the topic in a way that some have not previously.
This is only half the battle. Historically only piecemeal policy
proposals have been halfheartedly explored, proposals unfit to nip at
the heels of this challenge, let alone address it in its entirety. Who must live with the consequences of this inertia? It's the boys who
have gone to school this morning and my constituency and others across the country who are less likely than
girls in their class if current trends persist, to seize the opportunities that schools offer
them.
Boys and young men in communities like mine are just as deserving of a chance to get on in life and fulfil their potential as
their counterparts in more affluent areas where they have been badly let down. In the postcode lottery that
is affecting our society, it is disadvantaged boys that are being held back. As my honourable friend pointed out earlier, class is not a
dirty word. And one we must not shy away from when talking about this
issue. In my constituency, there is a 17% gap between boys eligible for
free school meals and those who are not.
When it comes to who is meeting the expected standard in reading,
writing and mass at Key Stage 2. This reverberates throughout their entire academic careers and it
widens when boys come to sit there GCSE is. There's a 22% gap in the borough between boys who receive
free school meals and those who do not when it comes to the percentage of pupils getting grade 4 or above
in the English and masts at the end of high school. In both instances,
boys with free school meals are underperforming in comparison to
There is a crossover not just transgender but around socio-
economic backgrounds as well.
One
way of assessing this is to look at the rate of exclusions amongst boys from deprived areas compared to girls and compared to those for
affluent backgrounds. Poor boys as twice as likely to be permanent excluded as a female peers. When
compared to the more affluent male peers they are five times more likely to be removed from school. According to the Centre for Social
Justice, this gap is widening. Economic hardship can in some instances we contribute in factor to
exclusion and isolation which can obviously lead to multiple negative
outcomes.
There is an increasingly intimate link between school exclusions and low attendance with
crime, with the Prison Reform Trust recently highlighting that 59% of the prison population have been regularly true and sing from school.
This is not a party political issue. No party has a monopoly on good ideas here. To get this right across
the whole country we must be
speaking to those that even the most tribal circumstances are making inroads in supporting boys to succeed and thrive. In enabling those institutions to reform
national policy rather than thinking we know best.
I welcome the steps that the Department for education
has taken recently to do so. I believe we must go even further than
that. Plus, although not currently protected characteristic, should be given a similar level of parity. I believe the government should be
mandated to consider class policy proposal related to children's
education are being considered. Arbitrary and outdated measures of class lead to arbitrary and outdated
policy outcomes, and I believe we need to codify and amend the definition of class to hold governments to account through this
lens.
The clock is ticking for the boys going to school, those are struggling to keep pace with their peers and their schoolwork, is
crying out for teacher to recognise and act in relation to their individual needs. And those who
stand on the brink of exclusion. Their futures hang in the balance. We can no longer neglects to ask the
questions that we may not like the
answers to. The challenges facing boys in schools are complex and the solutions will take grits to. It is
time to finally heed the warnings that have been sounded for decades and find the courage that have eluded us in facing up to the
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challenges of the past. I fear the consequences if we don't. Thank you Madam Deputy Speaker. An immediate three-minute time limit and a core Natasha Irons.
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limit and a core Natasha Irons. Thank you Madam Deputy Speaker. Can I thank my honourable Friend the member for Bishop Auckland securing
member for Bishop Auckland securing this very important debate. I rise to speak on an issue that cuts
to speak on an issue that cuts across every postcode, every classroom, in every community, and that is the persistent and growing gap in educational engagement and
gap in educational engagement and attainment among boys. While I declare an interest by saying I'm
declare an interest by saying I'm the proud mum of two boys, you must make clear this is not about putting one group of students against
one group of students against another.
It is about recognising that some of our boys particularly those from working-class backgrounds
those from working-class backgrounds and those from the British Caribbean Community and those with special educational needs are being systematically left behind by a
systematically left behind by a system never designed with them in mind. Over the past decade nearly
mind. Over the past decade nearly 1,000,005 year old boys start primary school already behind. At age 11 girls outperform boys in
age 11 girls outperform boys in reading by around 7% and consistently in writing by about 6%.
consistently in writing by about 6%. While the maths gap sits around five points. By GCSE, 16% of girls
points. By GCSE, 16% of girls achieve at least a grade 4 in English and maths compared to just a
small percentage of boys. These are not just trivial differences. They are measurable, they are systemic,
they are enduring. Among those pupils eligible for free school meals, the attainment gap falls
across those same old Fault Lines. Just 34% of white boys and 36% of
Black Caribbean boys achieving at least a grade 4 in English and
maths.
In Croydon East I've heard from children and youth workers and parents and students, and what I hear is young people and those who
support them no they do not lack talent and they do not lack ambition. Or even motivation. What
they lack is opportunity. We need a
curriculum that speaks to them. Mentoring that looks like them and teachers who truly believe in them. I welcome this government's
commitment to Break Down Barriers to Opportunity. Its commitment to raising standards and to giving all
children the best start in life.
Now is the time to consider how we invest in early intervention. Before
exclusion and the pipeline takes hold. Now is the time to look at how
we expand male role models with male teachers but also within the community mentoring and youth
outreach. Now we change the accountability systems within
schools were not punishing creativity we are having a more inclusive approach to how people learn. It is time for us to stop
asking why boys are disengaged and to start asking what we can do to change how we re-engage them.
Every
boy in Croydon and across all of Britain deserves the right to learn, the right to thrive and the right to dream.
15:06
Natasha Irons MP (Croydon East, Labour)
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Thank you Madam Deputy Speaker. Can I start by thanking my
honourable friend, the member for Bishop Auckland, not just for securing this debate but the excellent speech he gave at the
excellent speech he gave at the
outset. It was so good that he inspired the member across the floor. I heard from parents and
teachers and community leaders about
15:08
Jenny Riddell-Carpenter MP (Suffolk Coastal, Labour)
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the growing concerns on this topic. In the educational outcomes of boys and those from disadvantaged
and those from disadvantaged backgrounds. We have heard a lot
backgrounds. We have heard a lot about data. Nationally boys are consistently underperforming girls at every stage. From early years through to GCSEs and beyond. In
through to GCSEs and beyond. In 2023, just 60% of boys got the
2023, just 60% of boys got the accepted standard in reading,
accepted standard in reading, writing and maths at key stage two, which compares to 70% of girls.
We know boys are less likely to achieve
know boys are less likely to achieve a grade 5 in English and maths GCSE. The issue is not just about
attainment. It is also about engagement. Boys are former likely to be excluded. They are more likely
to be excluded. They are more likely to be labelled as disruptive, less likely to enjoy school or feel that
likely to enjoy school or feel that it meets their needs. That is especially true in rural areas like mine where transport, funding, and
access to support services or create additional barriers.
In Suffolk
additional barriers. In Suffolk Coastal we have seen first hand are the effects of the systemic issues. Parents tell me they are worried
Parents tell me they are worried that their sons are being written
off far too early. We also know that children with complex needs and sent back issues, especially autism and ADHD have even more barriers to
getting on in school. With overstretched educational systems
and EHCP delays, children are battling SEND, and the barriers
continue to step up.
We need to rethink how we engage boys. Not through blame and stereotyping but
to recognising diversity of needs and learning styles. This means early intervention with more speech
and language support in the early years and a new Best Start family hubs which could be a real game
changer in places that provide the right level of support. We need to make sure we have a truly broad and
balanced curriculum with arts, sports, parity of esteem or vocational learning at the heart of
this.
We need to make sure that school is genuinely the place for children and boys to thrive and not
feeling like they are a round peg being forced into a square hole. In
closing, if we are serious about improving boys attainment we need a
system that supports their potential, and is built around them.
We need to back schools, we need to back families and communities with
the resources they need to close the gap. This is not just for boys but society as a whole.
Thank you.
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I call Josh Newbury. Thank you Madam Deputy Speaker. I thank my honourable friend for
thank my honourable friend for securing today's debate. I will start by saying that the numbers are
start by saying that the numbers are stark. I was to remeasure boys are falling behind. By the end of primary school just 57% of boys meet
primary school just 57% of boys meet the expected standards in English and maths compared to 64% of girls. If you are white working class boy
15:10
Josh Newbury MP (Cannock Chase, Labour)
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If you are white working class boy from a low income household, the picture is bleaker. 33% of those eligible for free school meals get
that same benchmark GCSE.
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I thank my noble friend for giving way. And he is making the
educational attainment of boys a serious concern. I agree with the points being made, this is principally a class issue. Working-
principally a class issue. Working- class boys, in terms of GCSEs, and
class boys, in terms of GCSEs, and going on to HE as well. Does he agree with me that in order to prevent other issues such as crime
prevent other issues such as crime and antisocial behaviour, and also wider economic issues as well, we need to see early intervention and
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need to see early intervention and targeted support for working class boys? I thank my friend was
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I thank my friend was intervention. Absolutely, he is right, and I will cause the issues refers to. He represents a community
refers to. He represents a community with the demographic similar to mine. So I welcome his efforts in this space. In Staffordshire as
this space. In Staffordshire as across the country, boys are around 50% more likely to be excluded as
50% more likely to be excluded as girls, and twice as likely to be publicly excluded. We have to work out why this is happening.
Why so
out why this is happening. Why so many of our boys and young men feel out of place in the classroom, and subsequently rebelled against the
subsequently rebelled against the system. As the first in my family to attend university, I note the education system particularly after the incredible damaging reforms
the incredible damaging reforms under the former education secretary, all too often had one-
size-fits-all approach was to this is a barrier for white working class
boys who do not see themselves reflected in school.
My constituent falls significantly behind the
national average in the Higher Education Bill occasion. It is just
23% compared to 34% nationally. In
2022/2334% in Staffordshire started in higher education by the age of 19 compared to 49% of women. As a man
raised to be a proud feminist fact that numbers of women going to
university has increased since overtaking men in the 90s should be welcome and should not be seen as something that is taking away from
men as it sometimes is falsely characterised as.
But we must not ignore that the numbers of men going on to higher education has risen
much more slowly. What is even more
stark is the fact that 22% of young people in Cannock Chase leave school with no qualifications at all. And
only 57% of white boys from Staffordshire meet the expected standards in English, reading, writing, and maths last year. The
young boys these are not just statistics. They are social problems. We must also recognise the
danger of ignoring a growing crisis amongst boys, when they feel alienate it from school or from
opportunity, others step in to fill the gap.
Most worryingly this includes the right of toxic figures
on social media who spread misogyny. Young boys are being fed of version
of masculine see which is about dominance grievance and hatred. If
we shame men as a whole, we characterise them all as privileged to be not any failed to address the issue, but we pushed many boys
towards malign influences and risk losing a generation. So I welcome
the fact the government is working to address the root causes of violence against women and girls in schools, teaching pupils about relationships and about consent.
We
need to draw boys into education showing them that it matters, that
they matter, they will play a role in our society. Learning is not just for the academically gifted. We must
invest in mentoring and we must back apprenticeships, technical pathways,
and as a society value them as much as we do degrees. We must understand why so many men are walking away
from education. Is it a lack of support, financial pressures, whatever the cause, deserves real scrutiny from this House and
solutions.
We must also explore reforming assessment methods is not
every young person thrives in exams. Coursework, modular learning and vocational opportunities must be
valued equally as they were when I was at school. We must talk about this openly and honestly and with
emergency. We have to inspire boys to stay and thrive in education, as honourable Friend puts it so
eloquently, not shaming men making
out they have privilege and have nothing but guiding them towards a future defined not by anger or exclusion but by achievement and respect.
respect.
15:14
Rachel Taylor MP (North Warwickshire and Bedworth, Labour)
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Thank you Madam Deputy Speaker. I would like to congratulate my honourable friend for Bishop Auckland for securing this important
debate and for paying credit to the work done by the young men in his
office. For too many years, we have been sleepwalking into a crisis of
boys disengaging, and finally we have had the wake-up calls we just really needed to show us that this
House must do better. From the TV show Adolescence, Gareth Southgate
lecture about the lack of male role models to the Centre for Justice report on lost boys and its shocking
revelation that two thirds of those who are unemployed and young men, it is clear that everyone else can see
this problem.
Now it is time for us to tackle it. I stood as an MP
because I truly believed this was the party which would Break Down Barriers to Opportunity, and it could not be clearer that means
tackling the issue of boys disengagement from education. With only one third of boys on free
school meals achieving grade 4 in both English and maths, it is time to ask why. And what this government
should be doing to break the glass ceiling for working class boys across the nation.
I have championed
the role of sport many times before in this place, I will do it again
today. Because we have mountains of data which shows that access to sport does matter. For boys who struggle to get through the school
day, PE is often the only thing that keeps them showing up in the morning. For boys who are on the
edge of exclusion, we have seen sport led interventions can bring them back from the edge and improve
their engagement with school.
And for boys looking for community and a sense of belonging, we know that too often they find that online in
isolated communities or in groups committing acts of antisocial
behaviour. The truth is that we are seeing the result of the party opposite decision to spend years
starving neighbourhoods of funding for community sports clubs. A local
teacher from a school in my constituency told me that most children only access physical
activity in schools. She told me this is because the area is less privileged, and so access to sports
clubs, safe outdoor spaces, and even basic fitness opportunities outside
Sport let interventions work, they
work when schools implement them and they work when local councils
implement them.
Max orts led. Fund sport lead interventions, fund them
properly and give people a sense of community and access to sport that
they are crying out for. Before I finish, I want to take a moment to praise the many wonderful, talented and kind young men and boys that
I've met will stop men like one of my volunteers who is one of the most
dedicated and hard-working people I know and young men who are coaches
for their local clubs or who help out by volunteering or refereeing at
**** Possible New Speaker ****
local games. I commend my honourable friend
**** Possible New Speaker ****
I commend my honourable friend for bringing this debate forward. It is incredibly important because we are here to talk about boys
education, their engagement, their outcomes and their future. The truth is too many boys have fallen behind.
is too many boys have fallen behind. In Staffordshire, three% of boys earned a grade 5 or above in English
earned a grade 5 or above in English and math's GCSE. Behind every percentage point as a lad whose life
percentage point as a lad whose life
chances are narrowing.
Think of your engineers, our bricklayers, our entrepreneurs, full of potential, but maybe starting to think school
but maybe starting to think school is not just for them and that should worry us all. What is clear about
worry us all. What is clear about this is it isn't just what happens in secondary school. The signs are there so much earlier. We know boys
are far less likely than girls to finish reception with a good level of development. That early gap often
15:18
Leigh Ingham MP (Stafford, Labour)
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of development. That early gap often sets the term -- tone or years
ahead. It's about whether families can get into a nursery, whether
health services are in place, whether parents feel supported. We can't fix educational inequality
without looking at a bigger picture. That also includes children's mental health, family support and investments in our towns and
villages. Because when a place is left behind, the young people who
live there are left behind also. We know from the data that it's particularly boys being left behind.
So I'm calling on the government today to continue being bold, to invest in the wraparound support
that helps children thrive, to expand mental health support in
schools and to strengthen the ties between schools, families and local services. Because when those links are strong, children do better. We
know the intervention isn't only found in education, but in
community. My honourable friend just spoke of the value of sport and is incredibly important in creating
those opportunities. The challenges of how to be a man in the 21st century Britain are brilliantly
portrayed in the BAFTA winning series big boys, where young men grapple not only with the pressures
of being working-class and university, but also with the simple yet profound question of how to be
both kind and masculine.
My good friend and colleague who couldn't be here today has been doing vital work
in championing the club that supports working-class university graduates. I'm also a proud member of that club and she often references the character of Danny
from big boys as an example and inspiration. It's a powerful reminder the policy must meet young
people where they are to lift them
up to what they deserve to be. If we want a fairer, more productive Britain, we can't keep working off young working-class boys who are
struggling to find their place in education.
We owe them better and I know that teachers, schools, wider
community and staff are ready to deliver when we give them the tools.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Today I will speak about boys for more deprived back grounds have
fewer academic and nonacademic skills and how it is harming their ability to get decent jobs in the postindustrial era. This topic was
15:20
Dr Jeevun Sandher MP (Loughborough, Labour)
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postindustrial era. This topic was the subject of my second PhD paper
15:21
Leigh Ingham MP (Stafford, Labour)
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and while I can't force you all to read my PhD, I can certainly force
15:21
Dr Jeevun Sandher MP (Loughborough, Labour)
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read my PhD, I can certainly force you all to listen today. The deposit in that paper was what was that non-graduate men are finding it so
non-graduate men are finding it so hard to get jobs in the postindustrial economy. The employment rate for non-graduate men
employment rate for non-graduate men have fallen from about 90% to about
70 % in 2020. The manufacturing jobs they used to do have disappeared, but the question is if employment
rates have risen as they have, why can they not get jobs in the service sector.
The answer to that or at
sector. The answer to that or at least part of the answer is in the earliest years of young boys. By the
earliest years of young boys. By the age of five, the least skilled boys
age of five, the least skilled boys have lower academic and nonacademic skills. It makes it hard for them to attain what they need in schools, hard for them to get the
hard for them to get the perseverance and social skills they need. Rather than the physical
need.
Rather than the physical skills they are awarded, they are out and move to the service economy.
out and move to the service economy. How do we fix this and ensure that they get the jobs they need in our
they get the jobs they need in our economy? Is my honourable friend is pointed to, it's about the earliest years that start. Indeed, before they are born. Firstly by making
their parents lives affordable, less time worrying about the bills means
more quality time with your kids.
More money in the pockets of parents means more psychological and
material resources to invest in their children. Secondly, investing
in high-quality early years education, that's probably the highest returning investment any
government can make. Thirdly, we have to actually create good jobs
for graduates and non-graduates to move into, for both men and women. Mass production manufacturing is not
coming back. But we and government
can create good jobs, non-graduate jobs in construction, healthcare and education. Investment in our
physical and social infrastructure to create the good jobs we need
where we need them.
Every person should be able to live a decent
life. As things stand today, too many people cannot and too many
young men whose fathers left school and got decent jobs at the local factory, they cannot do the same
today. That disappointment turns to depression, anger and division. Rather than coming together we're
falling apart. Strength is found from each of us doing well, each of
us doing so with a common purpose
and connection. It is for this place, in this place, on the side to build that nation.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Michael Liberal Democrats spokesperson. Thank you very much. Can I stop
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Thank you very much. Can I stop by warmly congratulating the honourable member for securing this
honourable member for securing this incredibly important debate and his powerful and insightful opening
powerful and insightful opening speech. I think it behoves all of us to spend more time on this topic so
to spend more time on this topic so I'm grateful he has made me look into it more than I had done previously. It goes without saying that our education system should
that our education system should enable every child, no matter their gender, no matter their needs, no matter their background, to
matter their background, to flourish.
As we've heard all too clearly to ready, for too long, cohorts of boys have failed to
cohorts of boys have failed to thrive in our education system in a way they should, with a widening
attainment Between boys and girls. We heard the statistics already and I know many come from the excellent
I know many come from the excellent report for the centre of social justice, but I think the bear repetition because they are so
repetition because they are so
shocking. Where 75% of girls are ready, only 60% of boys are school ready.
In GCSE exams, boys on average achieve have a lower grade
average achieve have a lower grade than girls on every subject will stop and girls outperform boys by
over a grade and 1/2 on their best three subjects. Too many boys are
failing to reach their potential in school and this is having severe and long-lasting consequences for our
society and our economy. Since the pandemic alone, the number of young
men aged 16 to 24 who are not in education have increased by a
15:26
Munira Wilson MP (Twickenham, Liberal Democrat)
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staggering 40%. According to the Higher Education Policy Institute, men with low qualifications are
men with low qualifications are nearly twice as likely to be unemployed as women with no qualifications and if they are
qualifications and if they are employed, they are more likely to work in hazardous, menial or stagnant roles. This makes men less
stagnant roles. This makes men less likely to look after the mental and physical health, leading to higher substance abuse, smoking and alcohol consumption, lower life expectancy,
consumption, lower life expectancy, much higher rates of imprisonment and death by suicide.
It is highly surprising that so many boys are
surprising that so many boys are
surprising that so many boys are feeling hopeless. 41% of teenagers feel they have been taught that young men are problem for society. Tim Page, service coordinator
Tim Page, service coordinator Catch-22 said there is no trust or hope in the future, a young man from
hope in the future, a young man from a disadvantaged background has no clear path towards making a future for themselves. The only options for hundreds of boys and young men I
hundreds of boys and young men I have worked with our crime or benefits.
-- Our crime. That should
benefits. -- Our crime. That should make us reflect. Education is obviously vital in tackling this
obviously vital in tackling this disturbing trend, not just to achieve good grades in a decent
achieve good grades in a decent tragedy -- decent strategy, but to inspire children so they can grow up
to do good and decent things as part of our society. I agree with the honourable gentleman who introduces
debate, I think it is time for a gender specific strategy,
particularly looking at boys.
But I do think some of the wider systemic challenges facing our education system, as I think the chair of the
Select Committee pointed out, have a particular impact on boys and as the
government is considering a number of these issues, I think it would be worth looking at them through a gender specific lens. If we start
with teachers, we need good teachers
to stay in our boys lives and to guide them and encourage them. Whether that is in terms of career
options for the future or just as good role models.
I think we have already heard over the past 12
... I was thinking about this last
night, both my children at primary school, one of them is about to leave in the next few weeks, but are
in a way the teacher she is talked about the most in her seven years has been a male teacher and he's
only been teaching her for a day week in year six, but all the kids love him and look up to him and I've
never heard them speak about any other teacher in such a way.
It is
wonderful to see such affection for
a male teacher and such a role model for all of the children, both girls
and boys. Many attribute the shortage of teachers, both male and
female, to the conditions teachers face and a lack of progression, but I believe the presence of more male
teachers would normalise learning as a suitable activity for men and boys
and may especially help children who don't have positive male role models
at home.
However, as a Minister in the Frontbench knows, always facing the impossible task of trying to find more money in their already
squeezed budgets to cover underfunded National Insurance
increases in teacher pay rises. Also government has promised to recruit 6 1/2 thousand more teachers, I have
yet to see how they will be able to achieve this. Turning to mental health, some of the hopelessness
many boys are experiencing also stems from inadequate mental health
support and we know that boys are twice as likely to be excluded from school and girls and sadly
exclusions in criminal activity are often intimately related.
Those who
are excluded multiple times from school are more likely to have a younger age of first conviction.
Mental health researchers have noted the boys in emotional distress tend to use coping strategies that
externalise into violence and destruction, whilst girls are more likely to internalise it to self-
harm and depression. We on the Lib Dems benches have long called for a
dedicated qualified mental health practitioner to be placed in every primary and secondary school to help tackle mental health and behavioural
concerns early.
Whilst I'm very glad to see the government is continuing to roll out mental health support
teams and schools, I -- I fear that those teams are overstretched
because there often shared between several primary and secondary schools with perhaps half a day or a day a week with mental health
practitioner time meaning that children don't have consistent access five days a week to a trusted person to support them with their
mental health. I hope the Minister will say something about how the
rollout can be sped up and those teams grow so there is more coverage
for each of our schools.
Of course
there is a big overlap... Boys make up over 60% of those receiving
special education on the support and over 70% of those on Education,
Health and Care Plans. Those receiving SEND support are more than
twice as likely to be excluded than the average boy in over five times more likely to be excluded than the average girl. Too many children are
being forced out of school due to failure to provide the required
support for them to learn and I have heard time and time again from parents and kinship carriers who feel they have been let down by the
SEND system in this country and that they are trying to educate their children with no support.
It is driven up the number of children
being homeschooled, so I hope the Minister will use the opportunity today to ensure parents and carers
with children of SEND across the country that their rights will not be rolled back when they look to
form our broken SEND system. Families must be at the heart of these changes so all children can
access the support they deserve and I urge the Minister to look at the five principles for sundry form that the Liberal Democrats posted
yesterday.
Finally, seriously tackling the feeling of hopelessness
amongst young boys means looking at the online world. We have seen from research that algorithms are feeding
increasingly violent and misogynistic content towards boys. With 60% of children aged 8 to 10
having social media account, I think it is wrong that companies can profit from addictive and harmful
algorithms. We need to start taking a public health approach to online
safety with tighter regulation of the tech giants, empowering and educating both young people, but also the adult who care for them
about the online world and crucially we need to provide alternative spaces for activities and young
people to go to so that they are not always glued to a screen when they have spare time.
Here in our benches
we want to see the digital age of consent raised to end addictive
algorithms and stock companies training on our children's attention will stop out this government will
not count out Donald Trump and remove the digital services tax, but instead trouble it so money can be
used to be invested in improving her children's well-being and mental health. I think the honourable
gentleman for bringing this important debate and I look forward
important debate and I look forward
**** Possible New Speaker ****
This is the last week of term in Leicestershire, where I am from. I
Leicestershire, where I am from. I want to thank all the teachers and hard-working staff for the hard work this year, both for our boys and
this year, both for our boys and
girls. You realise how hard it is and we pay tribute to all of them. I
want to thank the honourable member who led us off with a brilliant
who led us off with a brilliant speech.
And my honourable friend who I am sure will be on defection watch
I am sure will be on defection watch with the whips. And the honourable member who said they would give us
member who said they would give us their entire PhD in two minutes. He
their entire PhD in two minutes. He did a good job of it. There has been good work done by the Higher Education Policy Unit on this. We must insulate against the global
must insulate against the global trend.
56% of university infants are women across the entire developed
women across the entire developed world. That is a huge change across
industrialised economies. Women are the majority in every single OECD
country now. We have reversed the trend from the 1970s. This trend is
across the whole UK. There are intersections of gender, ethnicity,
15:35
Neil O'Brien MP (Harborough, Oadby and Wigston, Conservative)
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class, and so on. Those intersections are interesting and it shows that important culture is. For
shows that important culture is. For example, for white boys not on free
example, for white boys not on free school meals, 30% went to adversity. Indian girls on free school meals,
Indian girls on free school meals, 68% went. It goes against the trend and shows the power of culture and
and shows the power of culture and you can see the big difference between girls and boys at every level of distribution.
The culture
level of distribution. The culture for boys regarding education is disastrous and I remember what it is
disastrous and I remember what it is like. I was in it at school and
like. I was in it at school and there are origins with the issue of
buildings and it can be blamed on industrialisation and there is the concept that a job has to involve a sickle effort but does not use your
sickle effort but does not use your brain if you are man.
Sometimes I
brain if you are man. Sometimes I think we have to ask JK Rowling to rewrite 'Harry Potter'. Of course,
rewrite 'Harry Potter'. Of course, that can helpful framing of voice is not diligent and is false. It is not
not diligent and is false. It is not helpful. There are two things people
have said in these debates. I think
the willingness to engage in the debate has increased during that time. Some people say that in general the performance of boys in the education system is separate to
the performance of the system hall.
That is broadly right. There are
good cases for doing things to improve the attainment of poison
education and those things are simultaneously true. Starting with
the first thing,. -- Boys in education. I don't want to re-
litigate arguments. In Wales, the Labour Government decided not to do
the same as in England and so there were a number of differences with the curriculum and the results were
startling. There were major challenges for education in Wales
and, amazingly, disadvantaged children are now doing better than
average children, a huge gap.
From 2009-22, England went from 27th to
two in the table for maths and there
was also movement in other tables. A big gap between England and Wales.
What does that mean for girls and
boys? For Ps, you see that boys do better in maths and science but
worse in reading. The gap between England and Wales is now so big that on reading boys in England do better
than girls in Wales. In science, it
is the opposite.
You must remember that, and we talked about relativity, ultimately we care about performance and we want to raise
both levels, particularly given we
are a global economy. Bring to the second case and what we will do specifically to improve the performance with boys and I want to
discuss a few examples. It's been
mentioned that there are issues with boys and that is one reason will press for action, not just to influence skills wider action, I see
Liberal Democrat frontbencher, to deal with problems caused by smartphones including the age of
consent for smartphones.
We know that boys are more likely to end up
in trouble than girls. People have mentioned exclusion. I was wary that
was an issue and getting behaviour and discipline right is crucial for
boys. They are often the victims. And the schools Bill had nothing to
say on discipline. They have abolished behaviour hubs. I think
that they were working in schools and went through them increased from
one third to two thirds in performance but they have been axed.
71% of all EHCPs are boys and the
government are looking at ending it outside of special schools.
We are
not against reform on special needs, not at all. The Minister of health has said the government wants to see
a smaller portion of children in special schools, too. Given these
issues are in the public domain, I see ministers think about reform,
the only to move fast and answer big questions about ideas. So, for
example, how will parents of boys know that their child will get what
they need if they have ADHD? Is the attention with special schools? What
does the Minister mean when she has said effective support would be
removed? What does 'effective' mean? These are crucial questions for everyone.
I understand why the
Minister is looking at this. We
increased funding by 60% in 2015-16 and 2024-25, a fast rate of
increase. We have to get the right answers as quickly as possible. A
couple of questions for the Minister, the promoter said he wanted to improve employability and said they would reinstate two weeks
of compulsory work experience. How many skills are delivering that now?
-- Schools? When will skills see the
£85 million promised in the Labour
manifesto.
-- Schools. They also promise to develop young male mentors and teach people how to
navigate social media, particularly to instil it against people like
to instil it against people like
Andrew Tate. -- protect from. These
are total losers teaching boys terrible ideas and we want the ability to prosecute these people as well. What has happened to the pledge to give the mentors in place?
pledge to give the mentors in place?
The chair of the select committee talked about the gender pay gap and I think it's interesting and
requires careful analysis.
For those aged 18-29, the gender pay gap does not exist. It appears to get bigger
with this. It's not a gender gap but it is about motherhood. I commend
the work that has been done on this
and in one report it is shared that women have higher income but fewer
children do literally wait to have children. We think this is unacceptable and something that has
unacceptable and something that has
to be changed. On that rare note of terrifying consensus, I will draw my remarks to a close by saying congratulations to the honourable
member who was quite right to bring this debate to the House.
He gave an
excellent speech and I'm struck by the way this has changed in the time
I have been here and it is clear as a problem and by synthesising the
arguments in such an excellent way, he has helped to further progress.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
I will add my congratulations to the member for Bishop Auckland on securing this incredibly thoughtful
securing this incredibly thoughtful and very important debate and for
15:42
Catherine McKinnell MP, Minister of State (Education) (Newcastle upon Tyne North, Labour)
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15:43
Neil O'Brien MP (Harborough, Oadby and Wigston, Conservative)
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the powerful opening speech. I welcome the people on work experience, supporting the
15:43
Catherine McKinnell MP, Minister of State (Education) (Newcastle upon Tyne North, Labour)
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honourable member with his incredibly powerful speech. He
incredibly powerful speech. He touches upon a really pressing and important issue. We know that, on average, boys have lower attainment
average, boys have lower attainment than girls and, as a government, we are determined to understand and
are determined to understand and address the drivers behind this. All children should have the opportunity to achieve and thrive in education,
to achieve and thrive in education, no matter who they are, where they are from. That is the driving
mission of opportunity and we are
mission of opportunity and we are determined to drive educational excellence across the country, for every child and young person.
To do that, many of the issues that have been highlighted today need to be
been highlighted today need to be addressed. While the current system does have many strengths, as set out
does have many strengths, as set out starkly by the honourable member for Croydon East, we know it is not
working well enough for all children. Too many are falling behind and facing barriers that hold
behind and facing barriers that hold them back from the opportunities and life chances that they deserve and,
life chances that they deserve and, as in previous years, girls continue to do better than boys on the headline measures and although the
gap has narrowed compared to 2018- 19, there is much more to do.
We are
committed to addressing this challenge. The White Paper, which
challenge. The White Paper, which
will be published in the autumn, will set out the vision for a school system which drives educational excellence for every child. We are also working alongside others who
are gathering views for dozens of children, parents, teachers,
leaders, across the year, to build a
solid evidence base of barriers to attainment for white working-class children and looking at the solution is to drive up standards.
The
inquiry is looking to get under the
bonnet of the factors driving performance and what best practice can perform them and what policies can be applied to best address this
challenge. This work will contribute to the work of the regional improvement and standards and
excellence teams, the Rice teams, and raising attainment across the
board. -- RISE. This is key to strengthening outcomes and closing
achievement gaps in helping young people achieve and thrive and we
want to see reforms delivered through excellent teaching and leadership and a high quality curriculum with strong accountability and an inclusive system which removes barriers to
learning which are holding back far too many children.
I mention the
excellent teaching that we need to see. The quality is the most important factor in improving
outcomes for children, especially those from disadvantaged backgrounds. That is why we are
committed to recruiting additional
6005 new expert teachers. -- 6500 new expert teachers in school. We
have made progress in delivering the pledge and investment is starting to
deliver. The workforce has grown by
over 3000 equivalents up to 2024-25 in secondary schools, the skills
that need teachers the most.
-- Schools. It's important the teaching
profession reflects the community as it serves. Male teachers and
educators can clearly play an important role in teaching, guiding,
leaving boys in classrooms, however, as rightly highlighted by the spokesperson for the liberal
Democrats and the other honourable members, men are underrepresented
across the workforce with over three quarters being female, and while
this is in line with international trends and has been stable, we could do better and we want representation
to increase and are working to recruit and retain high quality teachers in classrooms and we know the campaigns are reaching diverse
audiences and widely feature male
I recognise the challenges that were set out by Bishop Auckland, and I
believe that every young person should have the opportunity to thrive in education, regardless of
their background.
And that is why we have commissioned an independent panel of experts to review the
existing curriculum and system. We want to ensure an excellent foundation in the subject of
reading, writing, maths, and a broad and inclusive curriculum that readies young people for life and
work. We want to ensure we have a
curriculum that reflects our whole society, making sure that children do feel inspired and engaged in it, and the member for North
Warwickshire mentioned the value of time and support to take part in sport for young people, and I very
much agree.
The curriculum is specifically considering how to
remove the existing blocks for progress to ensure good outcomes for children and young people who are from socio-economically
disadvantaged backgrounds or who are otherwise honourable. The review published findings earlier this year
and it highlighted the gap and attainment and a commitment to
address these challenges and the barriers that are holding children back from the opportunities and life chances they deserve, and we look
forward to receiving the final recommendations in the autumn. This
powerfully set out by members, school disengagement and exclusion is incredibly damaging and
significant concern.
Every child deserves to learn in a safe, calm
classroom, and we will always support our hard-working teachers to
support our hard-working teachers to
make it happen. Schools should take proportionate and measured steps to create calm and supportive classrooms because that is how you breakdown barriers for opportunity
and improve life classes for all pupils, but we also know that poor behaviour can be rooted in much
wider issues and that is why the government is delivering an ambitious strategy to reduce poverty so that we can breakdown those
barriers to opportunity, and all schools are required by law to have a behaviour policy so they have to
have effective strategies to encourage good behaviour in school
leaders have to develop and implement the policy and make sure it aligns with the culture of the
school and has the support of the whole school curriculum, but I acknowledge the challenges that have outlined by honourable members
today.
Because education has a crucial role to play as well in helping children and young people develop, create boundaries and
respect difference, through compulsory relationship education,
and all pupils should learn how to form positive relationships, and we
are reviewing the guidance to make sure it really empower schools to tackle harmful behaviour, starting
in early years in primary, and to be clear that teachers have to
facilitate these conversations with students on what positive masculine
IT and femininity mean in today's world, and to develop those positive role models and really helped to build a sense of self-esteem and a
sense of purpose.
And we are going to publish the revised guidance and
it will include the importance of building skills including communication skills, expressing an
understanding boundaries, handling disappointment and paying attention to the needs and preferences of others. It will explore
communication and ethics within relationships, supporting people to
look at what a healthy relationship involves, and looking at the real complexities of relationships,
including the significance of power and vulnerability and how to manage
difficult emotions that can relate to relationships, including disappointment and anger as well as influence online and misogynistic
content.
The impact of pornography and including what some people can
perceive as normal. All of these issues will be addressed and we want
to empower schools to tackle these very important issues with young people. Finally, close to a million Finally, close to 1,000,016 to 24-
year-olds are not in educational training, and I know this is too high, the consequences are too
serious, and members from Stafford and Loughborough have highlighted
the cost of this, not only to the individuals themselves but to our society of this challenge.
So alongside the development of the
youth guarantee, we are focusing on requiring local authorities to
ensure that every young person does receive a suitable offer of a place in post-16 education training. We
know we need to address the underlying risk factors like supporting young people's mental- health with access to specialist
professionals in every school and mental health support teams in every college, that young people do need
effective transitions as well between school, further education employment to prevent those moments
of disengagement and we will
continue to work to ensure that young people can unlock the opportunities that we know will set
them up for life so I want to thank my honourable friend for bringing this matter forward, for raising these really important matters of
concern, and for all who have contributed to this very thoughtful debate today.
I do acknowledge there
are a number of challenges for engagement. There is much more we can do, and that is why we are
focused on taking action to ensure that every child and young person believes that sex, success belongs
**** Possible New Speaker ****
to them. Thank you. I will keep this
15:52
Sam Rushworth MP (Bishop Auckland, Labour)
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**** Possible New Speaker ****
Thank you. I will keep this really brief because I am conscious that the next debate is also of great importance. Just really to thank everybody who has attended and
thank everybody who has attended and contributed today. They have been excellent contributions. Grateful
for the cross-party support on this issue as well. I am looking forward to reading the governments White
Paper that is coming in the autumn on school standards and engaging with them on that. And I will write
to the Minister with an offer about how we can do more to invest emotional learning into early years
**** Possible New Speaker ****
settings. The question is is on the order
**** Possible New Speaker ****
The question is is on the order paper. I think the aye have it. And
15:52
Backbench Business: General debate on children's health
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paper. I think the aye have it. And we now come to the backbench debate
on children's health. on children's health.
15:52
Dr Simon Opher MP (Stroud, Labour)
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Thank you. Can I also thank the Backbench Business Committee for
approving this really important debate. The ambition of this government is to raise a healthy
generation of children ever, and so in the 10 year plan, fit for the
future, there are so many things about really improving child health, and I am genuinely quite excited
about the 10 year plan. Maybe I'm sad, but that is the sort of thing
that does excite me. I have been a GP for 30 years and have a special interest in child health and child
mental-health.
I will talk briefly about prevention, mental health and a little bit about paediatric
services, so first of all, obesity is a massive problem in young people. At the age of five, 10% of
children are obese. By the age of 11, 22% are obese and that doesn't
count the children who are overweight, couple of quick things.
If you go through a child's life, it starts in a pregnancy and you must
ensure that pregnant women have healthy diets. That reduces obesity.
When they are born, if they are given a particularly follow-on milks
and hungry baby milks, they are just milks packed full of sugar.
That will not do the child any good. If
they are hungry they need to change their diet and go on to solids. If you look at baby snacks that look
healthy, they have a healthy carrot on them, often they are packed full
of sugar as well, so we need to get a really clear idea of what is healthy. So parents can choose the
healthiest food for their children. In terms of advertising, the government is going to bring in a junkfood watershed around
advertising.
It was going to be in October, it is now promised for
January. This is important because advertising, young people are very sensitive to advertising. And can I
also mention, there is a report about sport sponsorship. Over 90
different foods are sponsored
through football and six other sports, and all those foods are high in fats and salts and sugars and we
really need to look at that because young people look at their sports stars and are very influenced at
that time.
They have to advertise healthy foods otherwise we will continue to have an obesity
epidemic. I was also delighted to see in the 10 year plan things
around the NPPF about fast food outlets near schools. We must stop these. These are cynically placed
near schools and are prevalent in more deprived areas. A couple of
other things that I am delighted about. Free school meals to everyone who receives Universal Credit. They
have got a very obvious relationship to obesity and tend to bring down obesity.
And I'm also delighted that
in the autumn, we are going to look at the school food standards and hopefully, we will reduce the amount
of processed meat particularly which
seems to be in a lot of school foods. In any other part of the 10 year plan that excites me is this
Monday to re- health food sales with supermarkets. That has been evidence to reduce obesity, so I am delighted
about that. Physical exercise, 50% of children are not sufficiently
active.
Two thirds of children
cannot swim 25 m.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Does he agree with me that the lack of investment by the last government in vital leisure facilities like the swimming pool in
facilities like the swimming pool in my constituency in Atherstone which is really overdue for renovation, is
is really overdue for renovation, is causing many of these problems and the lack of PE in schools and the
the lack of PE in schools and the lack of safe places for children to play, be active, and that leads to
**** Possible New Speaker ****
play, be active, and that leads to obesity problems? I totally agree. Another thing in
**** Possible New Speaker ****
I totally agree. Another thing in the 10 year plan is that sports
England, £250 million into this type of opportunities for children. I
would also say there is an organisation called the Starlight children's foundation which promotes play and exercise. And I'm a particular fan of adventure
particular fan of adventure playgrounds in urban areas which
playgrounds in urban areas which allow children to really cut loose, particularly after school, and
really expend some energy and have fun in a safe setting.
One other thing, something I'm working on with colleagues around access to nature.
colleagues around access to nature. It is incredibly important that every child has access to nature so
every child has access to nature so that they can explore nature and have that type of exercise, and one other thing I would like to stress
is 50% of children have active
travel to get themselves to school. Let's increase that. Let's try and get more children cycling and
walking to school because that will just increase their fitness.
Dental
care is also in the 10 year plan. I am delighted to see that brushing is
already there, and I'm delighted to see fluoride varnish is going to be applied to children to prevent
dental care occurring, and also, a quick shout out about asthma. Asthma
prevention is key and it is all about air quality. I know some young
people who since the ULEZ scheme have actually stopped using their inhalers because pollution has gone
down so that is something that we must stress.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
On the point of equality, I wonder if he will join me in paying tribute to the stop the stink
tribute to the stop the stink campaign in Newcastle-under-Lyme who fought so hard to clean the air around schools. Their work helped
**** Possible New Speaker ****
around schools. Their work helped make the lungs of our young people that bit healthier. Thank you for that intervention,
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Thank you for that intervention, you are absolutely right. Clean
areas one of the five most preventable health risks that we have, and we must do more around clean-air. I want to very quickly
**** Possible New Speaker ****
clean-air. I want to very quickly come on too early. I wonder whether he will join me
in calling on the government to adopt the World Health Organization
**** Possible New Speaker ****
levels for PM 20? I'm afraid that this is not my special area but it sounds like a
special area but it sounds like a very good idea, so thank you for
very good idea, so thank you for that. Clean-air, because we can't see it, we don't realise what it is doing, but genuinely, people need
doing, but genuinely, people need inhalers less, and that is something for young people with asthma, it is incredibly important, so I just
incredibly important, so I just wanted to talk about early years support.
In Gloucestershire, we have
something called home start, and this involves volunteers going into homes of women who have just given
birth and supporting them, and what is interesting is those women who have had that support often go on to be volunteers. Fantastic
organisations. What I was delighted
with this week is that the best start a family helps coming back, and in the last Blair government, I
would say this is one of the most glorious things that we did, and
also, it affected the health of
young people enormously.
I'm also
very pleased that childcare is getting much more funding, and also the 10 year plan, healthy start is going to be restarted in 26/27,
providing money for deprived or people who have difficulties who are both pregnant and want four-year- olds. That will really help less
well-off people. Going onto mental health, we are in a bit of crisis.
25% of young people have mental health issues. And we only spent 10% of the NHS money on mental-health
and it contributes to 20% of morbidity.
There are about a million
people on the waiting list at the moment, and I know that my honourable friends are doing all
Two help with mental health we have to look at things like music and
skills. I am backing the plan to get rid of things which caused tension
and stress in young people. In terms of treatment, I'm delighted we will have mental health support teams in
schools and I understand 60% by April I hundred percent by the end
of Parliament and more mental health workers and an approach for the
whole of the school and I embrace the Mental Health First Aid trading that has happened and looking at
some future options.
With the
waiting list and the sudden increase in neurodiversity, we have to look
at schemes that can go into the waiting list and use creative and social prescriptions to deal with
children. A lot of them, given the right support, will not need
specialist assessment. I will say that I am the chair of the all-party
Parliamentary group for beyond
pills. Do you know that one in eight children under 17 have been put on
an antidepressant or an SSRI? That
is unacceptable.
Children are
generally waiting longer than adults for Chaco, according to the Association for Child Health. There
are generally long waiting list. One thing about one of my constituents,
the mother, her son had an issue. She reported a lack of facilities. Sometimes a bit for chemotherapy and
there would not be a bed and they had to wait till the next day. We
must ensure that does not happen going forward. What is the solution? We have to get paediatric care out
of the hospital and into the community.
We have to get kids seen
in the community, potentially by
paediatricians or well-trained GPs. GP training, something I've done for 25 years, every doctor who becomes a
GP should have time in the paediatric assessment unit. It's
essential. The main feedback from the roundtable from the Royal College of Paediatric Health, is
College of Paediatric Health, is
**** Possible New Speaker ****
that if we design services for children, we must involve the children in the design, otherwise they will not work. The question is as on the order
16:03
Sarah Hall MP (Warrington South, Labour )
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**** Possible New Speaker ****
The question is as on the order paper. To ensure everyone can contribute, we have a speaking limit
contribute, we have a speaking limit of three minutes from now on.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
If you want to raise a generation
of healthy children, we must stop putting children's mental health as an afterthought. I want to thank
an afterthought. I want to thank everyone who responded to my survey. They help us help shape the debate
today and along with the work I am
today and along with the work I am doing as the chairman of the all- party group. The focus of the study was children, education opening. I've heard from parents, carers,
I've heard from parents, carers, goddess, about experiences accessing health services and the mental health and anxiety of their children
health and anxiety of their children and barriers to accessing education because of neurodiversity and disability.
Families tell me there
disability. Families tell me there are long waiting lists and there are gaps in speech and language therapy
gaps in speech and language therapy and talk about narrow criteria which limit support and how it does not reflect the unique needs of the
reflect the unique needs of the child, resulting in families then lost in the system. We were told
lost in the system. We were told that care would be there whenever we
that care would be there whenever we did, regardless of postcode, but that is not the reality for too many.
Infant mortality remains high.
many. Infant mortality remains high. Conditions like asthma, obesity, dental decay ascending more children
to hospital and there are longer list for specialist services for mental health. Undeniably linked to
unacceptable levels of child poverty and deprivation, health outcomes for
children have declined for too long. We know that people are working
incredibly hard but the workforce has been underfunded and undervalued. Children are waiting
longer than adults significantly for access to services with 25%
weighting over 52 weeks compared to
1.2%.
This represents a gap. In my constituency, over 11,000 children
are waiting for care that they need. 44% are waiting 18-52 weeks and 25%,
44% are waiting 18-52 weeks and 25%,
over 52 weeks which. The Royal College has given Mrs a roadmap including shipping care closer to
home to transform services, and
establishing an investment standard but we cannot talk about health without isolation and poverty and poverty increases the risk of mental
and physical health and will lead to
worse outcomes in school.
Without real investment, housing and food security, we are papering over the
cracks. If we're serious about
giving every child a fair start, tackling poverty should be front and centre. I'm pleased to hear the new plans to fund the family health
model in my town. It's one thing to fund services and another to make
sure they reach and uplift those who
need them most.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
I thank the honourable member for bringing such an important debate. I feel strongly about this, having
16:07
Susan Murray MP (Mid Dunbartonshire, Liberal Democrat)
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trained as a dietician, and I
understand the impact of poor diet and related have on the future of a child. From health outcomes to educational outcomes, poor nutrition has a detrimental long term effects.
The honourable member mentioned other health conditions but I will
talk about diet today. We assume parents understand what constitutes
a healthy diet for the children. Sadly, this assumption is false.
There are so many competing messages in this space. According to the
British Nutrition Foundation nearly 1 third of parents are uncertain of
what a child should eat and few make
a child finish everything on your plate, regardless of hunger or nutritional.
These are not parents but well-meaning families, trying
their best in an environment that fails to equip them with the knowledge that they need and often
makes healthy choices less accessible. Even when parents have
some nutritional awareness, that knowledge does not always translate
into healthy practice. Research shows that inconsistent pushing and irregular eating habits contribute
to poor outcomes, even in families
with higher nutritional literacy. Good intentions are being undermined
by a lack of clear and practical guidance.
It's not a new problem but one that is growing all the time. As
we've heard, across the UK, 10% of children aged 4-5R overweight or
obese. -- Aged 4-5 R overweight. The Covid pandemic deepened the crisis.
During lockdown, many families had reduced access to fresh and
nutritious food. In times when pine and money were tight, convenience
won out over balance. The cost of an action is vast. Conditions related
to obesity costs the NHS over £6
billion a year and the wider cost is around £27 billion annually and without meaningful intervention, the
figure is projected to rise by £50 billion by 2050.
Meaningful
intervention must include access to NHS dentists. A child with a
mouthful of rotten teeth cannot enjoy an apple or crunch on a carrot
as a healthy snack. Dental health is really important. Thank you very
much.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
When we talk about the health of children, we think about the start
16:09
Dame Siobhain McDonagh MP (Mitcham and Morden, Labour)
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children, we think about the start of light, safe birth, vaccination, support in the early years, but we
have to think about children whose lives are short and children with
conditions which limit the Abdullahi. The families caring for a seriously unwell child's face
unimaginable charges but too often the support that they require simply
is not there, especially at the end of life and especially at home. In
my constituency, we are incredibly fortunate to be served by Shooting Star Children's Hospices, who
support children and families throughout Surrey.
Because the
number of children needing the care
in each individual borough is small, they can easily be overlooked. It is the problem that the system has a
local level. A number -- but the
numbers are low, things get lost.
That is why what was formerly the Children's Hospice Grant is so important. It supports hospices to
provide support for bereavement and
end-of-life care. It gives families choice of the hardest possible time. I welcome the government decision to confirm £26 million in funding for
confirm £26 million in funding for
NHS England for 2025-26 along with £100 million.
The truth of the
£100 million. The truth of the
sector is under strain. There is a living body for palliative care he
says only 19% of families receive end-of-life care at home. One third
are failing to meet the basic national standard. I have three
questions for the Minister. Will the government commit to increasing the
children's Hospice Grant beyond 2026? Will they lodge a proper
review of how children's palliative care is funded and planned? Will they hold ICBs to greater account to
ensure they meet legal duty to
commission the care and report transparently on progress? We are
told the 10 year NHS plan will bring care closer to home but right now there is no mention of palliative
care in the plan and now information
care in the plan and now information as to how these vital services will be funded.
This has to change.
16:12
Jess Asato MP (Lowestoft, Labour)
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I start by thanking my honourable friend for bringing forward this
debate. A frequent issue raised with me in my constituency is dentistry and is particularly acute for
children. We've heard that one in four five-year-olds suffer from
tooth decay. The government's rollout of supervised teeth brushing
the most deprived areas and dental services is very welcome. Children
from deprived areas are three times more likely to have dental decay
than those in less deprived areas. One in three added relative poverty.
Poverty is linked to and compounds
mental health. One way to improve mental health is to reduce the amount of children living in
poverty. The last labour government did that to great effect and we will build on that in the forthcoming
strategy which I hope will set out clear targets to reach them. As has been mentioned, one of the biggest
been mentioned, one of the biggest
health crises facing us today is children's mental health. We are
struggling to keep up with demand.
I hope the government will look at growing evidence that links access
to smartphones to poor mental health
and children. The commitment to make changes by 2029-30 is welcome. I'm glad the plan set out by the Health
Secretary begins a shift towards early intervention and I welcome the
plans to end the obesity epidemic. I remain concerned that the advertising ban will mean brands can
continue to advertise as long as
they do not explicitly identify as health products I hope the government looks at how to do this.
Finally, I would like to raise the issue of physical punishment of children. In 2025, it unacceptable
have less protection from assault and battery than adults. Research by
the RCP CH have found children who
experience physical abuse are two
times more likely to experience mental health issues. That is why many want to see the rules changed, following the lead of over 60
countries around the world including Scotland and Wales and remove the
reasonable punishment defence which allows children to be home.
I hope the government sees this as a
children's health issue and in the interest of the well-being of children, uses this opportunity to
children, uses this opportunity to
16:15
Tom Hayes MP (Bournemouth East, Labour)
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We know the problems facing
children's mental health. I want to use my time to focus on solutions. I welcome the commitment from the
government to youth hops and recruiting it thousand 500 mental
health workers and the plan for change and the best start and the Sure Start centres. There is a
report that shows the effect of the
I don't want to spend a long time talking about reframing the
architecture, the organisations, but it isn't quite in the right place.
Service users don't care about what services they have, but they want
the quality services. My concern is that we have services concentrated on a local authority level where they should be placed there. The
best run services of to Kimberley
health services in terms of data and capital funding, getting things off
the ground quickly, and we also know that some of the experiences of children social care are not
entirely as they should be. The attempt to unify children's health
and children social care within local authorities has had a mixed
record.
And I think it would be wise for us to think about whether
children and social care, indeed adult social care, should be thought at a local authority level, or if
there ought to be a different place to deliver it at a national level with the national health level. In a
previous life, I ran a homelessness service, and I embedded caseworkers and local authority settings to
support families with mental health issues, Domestic Abuse Act issues,
and I also did a service as part of the last government community mental-health framework, particularly personality disorder,
and I would deftly say that the embedding of third sector organisations is a positive.
There
are limits to what we can do, but they can do outstanding things. They can build strong relationships with
people who often lack trust, and
they would want a larger role for third sector. In closing, I want to talk about special educational needs
and disabilities. We all know the system is broken. We know that parents are breaking point. There is
not enough space and provision. We
know that THC takes too long, the process is difficult, and as a consequence, it can feel dehumanising.
I look forward to the
government working collaboratively to deliver what the best solution
ought to be. I have a survey that is available to constituents which I
would encourage detachments to complete because I need to hear from constituents in order to represent
them to government so that they get the best possible system.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Thank you. In London, 20% of reception age children are overweight or obese and nearly double to 39% of children in year
double to 39% of children in year six. The crisis of childhood obesity
six. The crisis of childhood obesity does not just pose future health risks but it is impacting children
risks but it is impacting children right now. Factors like a lack of after-school activities, poverty,
the cost of fast food adverts, and fast food chains near schools.
fast food chains near schools.
However, the sake of brevity, I will focus on the proximity of fast food
16:19
Jas Athwal MP (Ilford South, Labour)
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focus on the proximity of fast food outlet and the campaign against
children. In Ilford South, there are only 50% more fast food chains and over the last 15 years despite planning restrictions they always
find loopholes to exploit. Compound with the fact that healthy food is
double the price of fast food and that review centres mean there are
limited places for kids to exercise, fast food outlets have become the
cheapest, the most convenient, and the easiest choice for kids to go after school.
I welcome the new
national policy framework which empowers local councils with
stronger powers to block fast food outlets from opening near schools, allowing authorities to prioritise children's health. The second
insidious factor, coercing these children into consuming fast food is there an endless barrage of
advertising. Many of these adverts are designed to specifically target
children. In these surveys some of the largest companies and reported that 78% of products were specifically aimed children and
classed as unhealthy. And for children from deprived areas, the
campaign is even more severe because junk food ads are six times more
likely to appear in deprived areas compared to wealthier areas.
These companies are exploiting children,
especially those in poverty for profit. Right back puts it just
about right. Fast food advertising
is enticing, effective, and everywhere. Childhood obesity is not simply the result of poor personal
choices or bad parenting. There are structural factors coercing children
into making unhealthy choices. As a government, it is our duty to recognise the social and financial
recognise the social and financial
cost of allowing this to continue and we are making progress to empower local councils, banning advertising and delivering the NHS
10 year plan which centres on prevention.
We are laying the groundwork for lasting change. We
may not reap the benefits of this tomorrow or next year, but in five
or 10 years, we will see children living longer, healthier because of
the choices we made today.
16:21
Steve Yemm MP (Mansfield, Labour)
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Today, I want to speak about a group of people who are often
overlooked in our healthcare system. Those are teenagers and young people
with cancer. And every day in the UK, seven young people are told devastating words you have cancer.
And this is not just a statistic. It is a wake-up call for all of us.
Cancer remains the biggest disease- related killer of young people in
our country, and yet, too often, their unique experiences, their
physical, social needs are too often sidelined, and if we are serious
about improving outcomes for them, we need to act on three fronts.
First, we need faster diagnosis. Young people must be given clear and
accessible information about the symptoms of cancer and our primary
care system must be better equipped to spot those symptoms early. And then secondly, access to Pinnacle
trials. I welcome the conversation
that teenage Cancer trust and I have only last month with the Minister for Public health on this very
issue. Young people currently participate in trials at lower rates
than other groups, missing out on cutting-edge treatments that could
save lives.
And thirdly, mental- health. More than half of young with cancer experience, poor mental
health and almost 9 intense
psychologists say our current
services can't meet demand. Cancer doesn't just interrupted young life.
It collides with it. At a time of exams, discovering new relationship,
identity growth and development, and
the lease that we can do is to make sure that our systems don't fail them. Let's ensure that the next
national cancer plan reflects this reality, and let's give all of these
young people care and every support they deserve.
16:23
Leigh Ingham MP (Stafford, Labour)
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Thank you. I would like to thank my honourable friend for securing
my honourable friend for securing
this debate. Like many colleagues in this house, I stood for election on a promise to help raise the healthiest generation of children in
our country's history, a bold ambition but a worthy one. To get there, we need to look beyond the
doctors office or the dinner table. One of the most powerful and overlooked stores we have this physical activity, sport and play
and the chance to be outside.
Because when sport and play our part of the child's daily life, they
become a training ground not just for the body for life and in Stafford and across other areas, I
have seen really into teachers helping children build skills and
confidence they need to stay engaged. One young constituent spoke honestly to me about what he is
seeing amongst his peers. Rising mental health struggles, too much time online, and a worrying dip in
resilience. And he's right. When children don't get the opportunities
to move and to play, it affects their well-being, their education,
but also their future.
Where else
but in sport to children learn how to lose with grace? How to win with kindness and to keep going when
things get tough? But not all children have parents who can afford to pay for clubs, kits or transport,
and for many, school is the only place they will ever get to be part of the team or even discover a sport
that they love. And that is why PE should never be seen as optional. It must be a part of every school week.
So I welcome the governments renewed support for partnerships, and its commitment to equality between girls
and boys in schools, but we can go further. That means multi-year funding settlements that schools can
count on, and a clear ambition that every child, no matter their
background, has access to sport and play. In Stafford, I have been campaigning for more inclusive
public places. Families of disabled and neuro-data urgent children tell
me they avoid parks because there is nothing that the children can safely enjoy.
And campaigners like
Christine McGuinness only yesterday have spoken really powerfully about
this. Because play isn't a luxury. It is an essential for children's development, their health, and their
**** Possible New Speaker ****
joy. For every Christine Stafford, there is a Newcastle-under-Lyme as
there is a Newcastle-under-Lyme as well, and I think the one you 19 point that we will put to colleagues
point that we will put to colleagues is for them to play their part and to play their part fast.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
to play their part fast. I have already been on record today criticising Staffordshire County Council so I will hold off on
County Council so I will hold off on this debate, but they could be better at everything. That is why my
better at everything. That is why my commitment to play is why I co- sponsored my honourable friend is a moment the planning Bill that seeks
to provide sufficient play opportunities and especially
opportunities and especially inclusive play opportunities. So, I call on this government to invest in
call on this government to invest in potential and to give every child the opportunity to grow up healthy, confident, and importantly, resilient, ready not just for school
**** Possible New Speaker ****
resilient, ready not just for school but for life. I come to the Lib Dems.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
I come to the Lib Dems. Thank you. I would like to begin by paying tribute to a wonderful
by paying tribute to a wonderful charity who are based in mid Sussex. They are called group the strap
16:27
Alison Bennett MP (Mid Sussex, Liberal Democrat)
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They are called group the strap support, and ever since their founder Jane lost her own baby Theo 30 years ago, Jane and the team have
been campaigning for better outcomes for women who are pregnant who
contract group B strap, and because the impact on their babies can be
profound, it is the most common cause of life-threatening infection for newborn babies. So, I opened by
asking the Minister whether she will meet group E strap support so that she can better understand the
potential of better screening for pregnant mothers.
As a mother
myself, I don't take for granted health of my children, and I know
that, for all of us who are parents, the health of our children can turn
on a sixpence. And we know that the system that surrounds children and families and keeps children healthy
has been allowed to crumble. We are in the middle of a children's health
crisis in this country. This week, the Children's Commissioner reported
on a damning review of the health of
children across the country.
The review told us that children in
England are facing Dickensian levels of poverty, going without ASIC needs
like somewhere to a breakfast or safe transport to school. Members
talk about things being unacceptable. Unacceptable may be
overused but in this case, it is
very true. We should be ashamed that children are facing this reality in 2025. Our young people, those who
should expect to grow up to be part
of a prosperous, happy and successful nation in the coming years are being let down.
Under the Conservatives, things got worse and
worse. Under their watch, in the
period from 2022 to 2024 alone, the number of children waiting for over 52 weeks for an appointment
increased by 60%. For elective
paediatric systems. This situation is, however, not inevitable. The UK
has world leading researchers, passionate healthcare workers and a proud tradition of protecting public
health. Britain's children should be amongst the healthiest in the world.
We are a wealthy country with a welfare state and universal healthcare.
And yet, we lag behind
our peers. One in 11 children lives in asthma. Our country has one of
the highest emergency rates for asthma. It is avoidable and yet it
is still happening. The number of children living with life limiting
conditions has risen by 250% in less than two decades. 2 1/2 million
children in England are living with obesity as other honourable members
have mentioned this afternoon. Over a million of them already have health complications. Almost one in five children now struggle with the
mental-health, a 50% increase in just five years.
And yet children
are waiting longer than ever to be The number of consultants has barely
budge. Over 50,000 children are waiting for more than one year to be
seen. The Conservatives let the
problems pile up and so Labour cannot afford in action. My colleagues and the Liberal Democrats
and I believe every child deserves the best, regardless of their
background, postcode, the income of the Prince. We want healthy and happy children across the country.
We will start by ensuring everyone has access to healthcare I can see a
GP within a day if it is arson.
I and my colleagues will push the
government to ensure the pledge becomes reality. It means ending the scandal of children turn up to
hospital with a mouthful of rotten teeth because there is no dentist
nearby. It means rebuilding primary care and community services that have been underfunded for over a
decade. I know from conversations with my constituents that these
problems are real and with them happening in what is a relatively well-off part of the country, mid
Sussex, it's clear that these problems are systemic.
It's not about illness. You got to be
determined to prevent it. We have to
invest in programs that get children moving, eating well, driving. We
tackle be property that causes health problems like ending the two child limit and reducing the poverty
gap. We will extend free schools to
primary school. -- Free-flow mills
and were glad to see the government extension. The campaigning for this to go further. No child should go
hungry at school, ever. When it comes to mental health, we would transform the system from the ground
up, meaning mental health hubs in every committee and regular checkups and a dedicated mental health
professional in every school and the proper cross-government strategy to understand and tackle the root
causes, from bereavement, bullying,
social media pressure.
It's not just a health issue about education,
family, justice. More than one department and more than one
minister. My colleagues have led the fight for early intervention, holistic support, real accountability and have championed
ideas like register of bereaved children. How can we help if we don't know who need support? Will
the Minister commit to implementing
such a register? We face a real challenge but have ideas, evidence, and the plan. Now someone has got to
get on and deliver the change that children across the UK desperately
need.
I urge the government to take action. Let's build a country where no child is left behind and every
child a parent has has at the very
least the opportunity to be healthy and look to the future with confidence. Thank you.
16:34
Dr Caroline Johnson MP (Sleaford and North Hykeham, Conservative)
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I called the shadow minister.
interest as a consultant paediatrician and a member of the
Royal College of Paediatrics, which was mentioned earlier. I
congratulate the honourable member for securing this turbidity. Getting
the right start in life is one of the most important factors in adult health and well-being. You must make
sure that we get the best treatment
and preventative care and ensure the best for taxpayers. I have seen
improvements in my career.
We must look at social and environmental
factors and ask what more we can do to protect mental illness in
children. Prevention is better than
cure. It is one of the three areas the government has identified the man I want to focus on. Often children put into hospital to see
paediatricians have conditions that have been caused by social and environmental factors. These are
things which medics can treat on their own and as every professional
knows, we must work with parents, families, children.
We want the best
outcomes. An example is the child obesity crisis which has been mentioned many times already.
Research shows to 6% of children in year six, aged 10 and 11, are
overweight and obese. I've seen
extreme cases, for example, a nine- year-old who weighed 80 kg. Many
children suffer extreme conditions because of their weight. As part of
a broader shift. We note that lack of exercise and a diet too high in
calories causes obesity but there are more complex issues like poverty
and family working patterns.
The government cannot determine what each child eats but you can do something to help support parents
and children. What is the Minister
to encourage exercise, participation in sport, active travel to school? What is she doing to improve the
quality and availability of food for parents and families? What is she doing to improve the quality of school food and build nutritional
education into the curriculum and teach children about managing their own health and cooking healthy food?
The plan includes formulation but
there is a risk manufacturers will simply replace sugar with sweetness
and other chemicals.
What is the
Minister doing to ensure we do not solve one problem and walk into another? We also had about brushing
teeth and we know that dental issues cause hospitalisation in children.
What steps are being taken to improve dental outcomes like improving access to dentist,
improving the schemes, and
increasing the use of varnish?
Speaking to the Chief Dental Officer the other day, it's clear that children who brush their teeth twice a day with the right toothpaste and
reduce sugar in your diet can significantly reduced to risk of fillings and dental decay.
Another issue is mental health. Young people
face mental health from home, school, friendship, other factors.
Particularly, the Covid lockdown had a serious impact on development and socialisation of children. Social
media is causing increasing harm to
children. There is anxiety about body image, personal achievements,
and exposing children to harmful material and ideas. The previous Online Safety Bill is a welcome step in addressing some of these issues with the government rejected an
amendment to help reduce the use of phones in schools.
What does the
Minister plan to do to encourage children away from screens and two words healthier relationships with
friends and family? I also want to discuss neglect. 25,350 children
currently on a child protection plan for reasons of neglect is marked
increase on 2014. Organisations like
the NSPCC have highlighted neglect cases and we should not underestimate the harm caused to
health and development by neglect. What steps is the department and government in general taking to paint a more accurate picture of
neglect and intervene on behalf of the children who are suffering? One area of improvement is the balance
of community care and the government have talked about this in the three ships.
We know they are keen to
bring care into the community but do they agree we should materials available more widely in the
community first before giving them extra work to do? Too often in my
practice I see children with community paediatric problems
referred to hospital because of capacity problems in the community.
What steps is the Minister taking to ensure there is enough supply in the community sector to deal with community problems that children
face? In summary, children's health is a large and complex policy area
and we know we can make progress with good research and novel treatments.
Most children will get
better and I enjoy paediatrics because most patients get better because they are robust, resilient,
great fun. We must help didn't do things that protect health today and prepare those children to manage
prepare those children to manage
**** Possible New Speaker ****
I call the Minister. Mr Ashley
16:40
Ashley Dalton MP, The Parliamentary Under-Secretary for Health and Social Care (West Lancashire, Labour)
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**** Possible New Speaker ****
I call the Minister. Mr Ashley Dalton who has five minutes.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Dalton who has five minutes. Firstly, I want to congratulate
my honourable friend for securing this bed. He is a tireless advocate
for children across the country and I would like to pay tribute to his campaign on social describing before
he joined this post because it's a key part of the plan for health.
key part of the plan for health.
This issue is dear to my heart as well. I stood for Parliament because nearly 25% of children in the biggest in my constituency live in
poverty and as many have pointed out, the state of children's health
is a national scandal.
I see
honourable member for Stroud said,
this is a complex issue that strikes a variety of areas. It's a bit active travel and I'm delighted the
Minister responsible for active travel is on the front bench with
me. It's about air pollution and access to green spaces. The member
for Warrington South highlighted the links between children's health,
education, poverty. The member for mid Dumbartonshire, her expertise in
diet and nutrition was insightful.
My honourable friend, the member for Mitcham, spoke about children with life-limiting illnesses and end-of-
life care for children and palliative care.
My honourable friend talked about junk food
advertising and dentistry. My honourable friend for Bournemouth East talked about family hubs and
BenStar which was launched this week
and health and. -- Best Start. My honourable friend raised the issue
of fast food outlets and junk food advertising which I will cover in my
response. The member for Mansfield talked about children and young
people and cancer and mentioned the Teenage Cancer Trust. I met with him
recently and was delighted to do so.
The honourable member for Stafford
spoke about play and sport and how important this is. We are working
across departments in our mission,
we are mission-led government, to deliver the healthiest generation ever. I confirm that the NHS is
working to support facilities in hospital. Over 2 million children are not active and we must change
this. The Department for Education is committed to investing in school
sport and investing in physical education and sports premium and were working across government to
develop new partnerships and a network model which the Prime Minister announced in June.
The
Darzi Review set out in black and white how badly the previous
government led children. Tooth decay is the most common reason why children is 5-9 are admitted to
hospital. Referrals for mental health services for children has
tripled since 2016. Waiting for mental health services has grown faster for children than for idle.
This must change and voltage. --
Adults. This government is committed to creating the healthiest generation of children ever and work
to deliver this has already begun.
One of the single biggest things
that we can do to improve as child's
life chances is to safeguard mental health and that is fired by the end of this government, we will put
support team to break the vicious cycle of low attendance and bad behaviour. The Education Secretary
is rolling out free breakfast clubs so that kids start school with
hungry minds, not hungry bellies. To combat tooth decay, we have invested
£11 million in supervised toothbrushing for children aged 3-5.
We are going further than ever
before to tackle long waiting times
for children with the elective reform plan. We delivered more than 4 million appointments, double what we promised in the manifesto. In
terms of social care for children
and neglect, which the shadow minister tobacco committed to rebalancing the system towards
earlier intervention. -- Shadow
minister talked about we are committed to rebalancing visitor. There is a new transformation fund
of £55 million. We mentioned children's hospice one thing and I thank my honourable friend for raising this important point and I
agree about the important role.
We
are committed £26 million for children's hospices this year alongside £400 billion of capital
funding in future funding will be announced in due course. -- £400 million. The honourable member that
brought the debate mentioned the really crucial issue of involving
young people in conversations and
policy development. I spoke recently at an Alliance event and a
roundtable and listen directly to the views and voices of children and young people to make sure they fit
into the 10-year health plan and in the pocket health offer builds on this feedback and we have re-
established the Children and Young People's Council Task Force and insisted children and young people
insisted children and young people
Last week, we published a 10 year
plan for health to make it fit for today's children and future generations because we on these benches will not rest until every
working person receives the same kind of healthcare that the wealthy expect.
The three shifts that
underpin our plan are the building blocks to ensure children get the best start in life. First, from
treatment to prevention. We know a baby's first 1001 days from
conception to the age of two set the foundations for later years. It is why the government is establishing
best start family have, building on the legacy of sure start which was a
lifeline for working families and the last Labour government. Earlier
this week we publish that strategy and will provide funding to every local authority in England for best
start family hubs because no parent should have to face the challenges of parenthood alone.
We are also
taking firm action on obesity, something that many members have raised today. It affects only one in
five children leaving primary school. Our action includes restricting junk food advertising, banning the sale of high caffeine
energy drinks, abseiling school food standards, strengthening the soft
drinks levy, introducing healthy food sales reporting, and using that
reporting to ultimately set new sales targets. The government have
regulations in place that set nutritional compositional and labelling standards for commercial
baby food and we continue to challenge the industry to take further action, providing advice and
guidance for parents, and enforcement of nutrition legislation is the responsibility of local
authorities.
Good nutrition in the early years is vital, and we
recognise that there are opportunities to support parents to make the healthier choice easier by encouraging businesses to improve
baby foods and I will set out our plans on this soon. We are also
determined to fix the send system and restore the trust of parents by
ensuring schools have the tools to better identify and support children before issues escalate to crisis
point. This autumn, the government will bring forward a schoolwide paper which will detail the government's approach to reform,
ensuring joint up support for children and young people.
On analogue to digital, going beyond
the paper Redbook, the my children
function on the NHS Apple become the digital companion for parents access the child's health information
through their childhood. Over time, parents will be able to record the children's habits, developmental
milestones and use AI to access health advice when needed. The third
shift from hospital community, rolling out health centres in every community, building care closer to
where children live, learn and play, and that includes multidisciplinary
teams made up of GPs, nurses, paediatricians, mental-health, social workers and the third sector,
providing joined up preventative care and supporting children with
complex and chronic needs.
And before I wrap up, I want to say a few words and inequalities. Eltingh
affair Britain is essential to our plan and as we said in Blackpool last month, we will look at how this
is reflected for general practice with a sharp focus on money
following needs. Child poverty is a stain on our country. We are determined to fix this, and that is
why we are rolling out meals on
Universal Credit. We are increasing the value of the healthy start payment by 10%, and I am a member of
the child member task force which will be published later this year.
I
would like to thank my honourable friend for rating this topic, and with the colleagues for speaking
today. When he launched our manifesto, my right honourable friend the minister promised to restore the bond that reaches
through the generations and says this country will be better for your
children. That is what we are doing with our 10 year plan and I look
forward to working with him and all of the colleagues to get this done. of the colleagues to get this done.
16:50
Dr Simon Opher MP (Stroud, Labour)
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I won't keep you long. I know it
is late on a Thursday and we want to get back to Constituencies, but thank you to all of you for staying and giving excellent speeches. Thank
you to the Minister and parties opposite as well. Children's health, if we get it right, we have a whole
lifetime of benefits and that is why
child health is so important. It is about getting into do regular exercise which will continue for
life, decent diet, and make them the healthiest generation that we have ever known.
So, thank you very much
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and thank you to the Minister for being involved as well. Thank you. The question is is on the order
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The question is is on the order paper. The aye have it.
16:51
Adjournment: Disabled bus passes
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paper. The aye have it. I beg to move this house do now adjourn. The question is at this house do
now adjourn.
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Thank you. It is a pleasure to be stood here today, once again raising the issue of restrictions on the use
the issue of restrictions on the use of disabled bus passes. The Minister will be well aware of this matter and I have raised with him on number
and I have raised with him on number of occasions and I have had the opportunity to discuss it with him directly which I'm grateful for.
16:52
Tom Gordon MP (Harrogate and Knaresborough, Liberal Democrat)
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directly which I'm grateful for. Today, however, I want to use this debate to underline the real and lasting impact that these
restrictions have disabled people's lives, but to make a clear case for why it is the governments responsibility to address
inequality. Currently, under the English national concessionary travel scheme, disabled people are
entitled to some limited three local
A policy rightly designed and intended to help those with physical or legal reasons are unable to
drive. The scheme plays a vital role in helping disabled people stay connected with healthcare, work, education, family, and the wider
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community and society. $$CAPITALISE, point of education, I thank the member. Young people post 16 education or apprenticeships
post 16 education or apprenticeships
post 16 education or apprenticeships including my son George post 16 provision is, are unable to learn
provision is, are unable to learn how to drive as easily because of the complex needs. And yet, they are currently faced with parents having
currently faced with parents having to pay to get them to college in the morning and then get their free bus pass home which is completely
pass home which is completely counterintuitive.
And it is actually really restricting the choices of
really restricting the choices of young people at the time when they should be expanding their dependence. I wonder if you can comment on that.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
I thank my friend for intervening on that. I know she is a champion on
on that. I know she is a champion on the subject. The point is that, if we are giving people disabled bus
we are giving people disabled bus passes, it is therefore a reason, and those reasons often don't limit themselves to 930 onwards so I
themselves to 930 onwards so I completely agree with her on that point. That brings me onto the next point of my speech which is to say,
point of my speech which is to say, from 11 PM to 930 on weekdays, the English national concessionary travel scheme entitlement becomes a
travel scheme entitlement becomes a postcode lottery, dependent on whether a transport authority chooses to extend the benefit and
crucially, whether it can afford to do so from some already stretched local budgets.
Disability action Yorkshire, a charity based in my
constituency, and one whose work extends around the wider region brought this issue to my attention
earlier this year and indeed, last year at a local panel event where
local people were pointing out the barriers they face to participating
in our society. Service users rightly point out the absurd contradiction in providing a travel pass to disabled individuals, designed to improve accessibility,
only to then restrict it for use during peak hours. The absurdity lies in the obvious truth that
disability does not appear only at peak times.
There are approximately 870,000 disabled bus pass holders in
England, representing about 10% of all concessionary users. We have
pointed to the fact that 77% of local authorities offer some form of free travel before 930. Suggesting
that the issue is relatively minor. But framing it this way obscures
reality on the ground. In my area, in many areas, free travel is still
not permitted until after 9 AM, making travel to work, education or
early medical appointments financially and logistically difficult for disabled people.
In
fact, research shows that 35% of transport authorities offer unrestricted 24 seven access for
disabled passengers, and the result is a postcode lottery, and the
majority of disabled people remain constrained by an arbitrator time restriction that does not reflect the demands of their daily lives.
So, let's be clear. The restriction may be more relevant for older pass
holders who make up 90% of concessionary users and are, in general, less likely to be commuting to work or education. But this is
not simply apply to many disabled
people.
We live in a country where disabled people continue to face unnecessary and unacceptable barriers, whether physical,
financial, or social. We must be honest and we are simply not doing
enough to break down those barriers. Removing a weekday time restriction
on bus passes would be a straightforward, immediate and meaningful step in the right direction. Ending these restrictions
would do more to improve access to transport. It would promote greater independence, support wealth and
independence, support wealth and
well-being and make it easier to attend early morning appointments which are often costly to reach under the current rules.
It will
also contrary to environment a goes by encouraging greater use of panic transport over less sustainable alternatives. Most importantly, by
allowing disabled people to travel freely, we are able to ensure full participation in community life, whether that is volunteering, social
engagement, work, education. We will take a meaning. Towards greater social inclusion and a more equal
society for disabled people.
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Thank you. I thank him for bringing this debate on such an important topic. He is making an
important topic. He is making an excellent speech. Would he agree with me that, in rural areas, it is of particular importance because bus
of particular importance because bus services are sparse and long distances to travel. I have been approached by campaigners from
approached by campaigners from mencap Herefordshire who have done amazing campaign on this. Would he
amazing campaign on this. Would he agree that, as he says, the postcode lottery between different authorities mean that this is a great unfairness for disabled
great unfairness for disabled people, and the best way to deal with this is through national level change and not local?
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change and not local? I thank the honourable lady for that intervention and I completely agree with the sentiment she makes.
agree with the sentiment she makes. My constituency is in North Yorkshire, a large vast rural area we have the same challenges that she
we have the same challenges that she describes. The impact of this restrictive rule is particularly
restrictive rule is particularly clear when we listen to young disabled people themselves. In a recent conversation with whiz kids, a charity that supports young people
a charity that supports young people with disabilities, they highlighted the specific calm this restriction
is taking on young wheelchair users.
The charity recently conducted a survey when they asked whether 324
survey when they asked whether 324 seven bus travel would make a difference. Unsurprisingly, the overwhelming response was yes. Young people said all day access to bus travel would boost their
independence, help them build connections and develop crucial life
skills. As one individual puts it, we are normal young people who can't
afford taxis. We can't fit in a biz but we still have social needs. If
you want us to be able to integrate and contribute economically, we need the opportunity to build social capital is and skills.
Why bus
travel is not perfect, it is an accessible option for many disabled people. It does not require pre-
booking, offers regular service and allows greater independence. In contrast, other major transport are
less accessible. One constituents that they had missed trains because pre-booked assistance failed to show
up. Being able to use underground systems is an issue and struggles to
find accessible taxis outside major towns and in rural areas. This is
not a single exception but a reflection on the systemic gaps of
the network and failed to accommodate disabled passengers reliably and fairly.
The Royal nationalist of the blind highlighted
that for those with sight loss, us travel is often the only accessible
option, pavement parking, David striving an excess crossings all make transport on foot far too
difficult. 95% of respondents to recent research says they use buses
monthly. It is therefore clear that if we will restrict concessionary accident buses, we must ensure that alternative major transport are
truly accessible and affordable, something that my constituency experiences make clear is far from
being the case today.
At a time when disabled people are facing extra
burdens and cuts from every angle, we must find ways to support our community. The current cost of living crisis has had a
disproportionate impact on disabled people. They are more likely to face
poverty, to skip meals, to struggle with the rising costs across-the- board. Disabled households are also
more likely to be the poorest among
society with around third of adults in the lowest income households
living with disability. Scope every semi published the disability pricetag reports, demonstrating the disabled households need an
additional £1095 a month to have the same standard of living as a nondisabled household.
These are not luxuries but necessary things for
daily life. Whether it be medical equipment, higher energy bills are
accessible transport, these are unavoidable costs. One crucial
benefit of removing the 930 restriction would be to improve access to employment, education, and training, many of which stop before
**** Possible New Speaker ****
9 AM. I beg to move this house do now
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I beg to move this house do now Many of these opportunities for
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Many of these opportunities for 9pm but disabled people can board a bus earlier but with established they face much higher daily living
they face much higher daily living costs. Therefore they are disproportionately affected from
disproportionately affected from this decision and they have the
this decision and they have the opportunities impacted and it makes travelling in peak hours a burden many cannot afford and it limits
many cannot afford and it limits opportunities. Bernie, a blind bus
opportunities.
Bernie, a blind bus user, described access to this as a lifeline. Utilise on buses from as
lifeline. Utilise on buses from as early as 7:30am to get to work and says it would be impossible without free will. There are unique
free will. There are unique challenges faced by disabled people
challenges faced by disabled people and they have experienced many would find hard to understand. As a blind person, he feels at risk counting
person, he feels at risk counting money the roadside. Similarly, a victim of hearing loss was another
respondent said her condition gets worse as they dig, making early
travel essential but the first concessionary service does not arrive until after 10 M in her assiduously.
This means that they
require unrestricted access to transport and the postcode lottery
is not for you. Previous measures with a patchwork of short-term
promises. PIP has changed recently. Disability support continues to fall short. With the wave of recent descent from government pensioners,
that is not enough, I'm not sure what is. This government has made
clear it wants to encourage disabled people into work. The Minister has the perfect opportunity to dismantle
some of the many barriers they face. The solution is not just achievable
but affordable.
Research suggests removing restrictions will cost as
little as £8.8 million, reflecting 1% of the adult spend on concessionary travel across England
and that does not even include companion passes. If we are serious about improving opportunities for
disabled people, that the government have repeatedly said that they are, this is a logical and low-cost place
to start and as a matter of fairness, equality, recognising inclusion.
inclusion.
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I have waited to see if he would come onto the companion bus passes. I would like to thank him for his leadership on this issue and for
leadership on this issue and for core tabling with me with the
core tabling with me with the honourable D4 drops essential. --
honourable D4 drops essential. -- co-tabling. And with other
honourable members. We have all
honourable members. We have all tabled EDM 1638, specifically on bus
passes for the disabled and this is where we have regulation that brings a disabled person who cannot use a
a disabled person who cannot use a bus alone and two thirds of
bus alone and two thirds of authorities will have their bus pass
authorities will have their bus pass to cover a companion to go with them but one third will not.
I cannot
but one third will not. I cannot think of anything more futile than giving a free pass to someone to use a bus service which they cannot use
**** Possible New Speaker ****
without a companion for whom they have pay. I thank the honourable gentleman
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I thank the honourable gentleman for the intervention and he speaks well on the point. I agree, it's entirely futile. We should not give
people bus passes that are useless for all intents and purposes. We
must ensure that as part of this we look at doing more to ensure people who acquire assistance on the bus
with a companion get access to
services they deserve to. I anticipate the Minister is likely to inform you this is a matter discussed with local transport authorities who have discretionary
powers to offer free travel at peak time but we must confirm the reality that decision-making is not
delivering fairness to disabled us
past users across the country.
I commend councils like East Sussex have been using the funding to extend concessionary travel to
disabled people throughout the day. Similarly, if you look at the announcement in greater Manchester
where the combined authority announced around the clock travel for older and disabled people, I cope colleagues across the country
but especially in North Yorkshire
will follow suit. But, let's be clear, that is a temporary solution. Without national leadership and ring
fenced funding specifically for disabled travel concessions, we cannot expect provision across the
country.
Despite previous recommendations of local authority should fund discretionary charges,
the reality is that many simply cannot afford to do so.
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Will he give way on the point of the BSIPS? One of the problems is
the BSIPS? One of the problems is
the BSIPS? One of the problems is that the run and there are issues if the bus situation changes in your
the bus situation changes in your because the BSIP is for a short period of time and so from an equality point of view, a permanent decision would really help.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
decision would really help. I thank her for the excellent point and she has stolen the next lane of my speech but I forgive her on this occasion. I wonder if she
on this occasion. I wonder if she was really my should. Funding for
was really my should. Funding for BSIPS offers no long-term reassurance for those affected by the restrictions, and even where
the restrictions, and even where authorities are willing to fund, the lack of guarantees and ring fenced
lack of guarantees and ring fenced support means it is patchy at best.
In East Sussex, where reportedly
In East Sussex, where reportedly over 1% of BSIP funds related, a modest figure of significant impact,
modest figure of significant impact, it shows clearly the issue is not one of affordability but political
one of affordability but political will and privatisation. Taking the combined authorities of York and
North Yorks as an example, there was £12 million allocated to the region
and that funding has been directed towards valuable but localised initiatives with a grisly bus station and bus improvements and
discounted family travel in York city centre.
These are all
worthwhile investments but offer no real benefit to constituents like mine who require access using
disabled bus pass. The remaining
screen due to outdated restrictions.
I don't want a solution that fixes the problem in my area. I want a
solution that will be across England and to make sure that everyone is put forward in the change, not a patchwork. Sadly, it is equally
clear that while these budgets are stretched, discretionary travel is the first thing to be scaled back when there are cuts.
Recent data
when there are cuts. Recent data
from the LGA highlighted £450 million gap in funding and is not
likely local authorities can fund this themselves when government funding is falling short already of
the requirement. If we look at Hampshire County Council which recently moved to the wrong direction, in light of the funding shortfalls in the budget back
reference, there were issues with
removing free travel for those with companion passes and the sense a worrying as we cannot rely on local
authorities to deliver the change.
Leadership must come from this place, government. The government
cannot continue to wash its hands of responsibility by framing this as a matter of demolition and local
transport authorities. -- Devolution. The government
introduced the restrictions and the government holds the power to remove those restrictions. National
problems require national solutions. If we are serious about building a more fair and inclusive society, we
must stop kicking the can down the
road and act with urgency. In closing, I urge the Minister to reflect on the policy and the people
affected by it.
It's not about
politics but fearless, dignity, equality of access. Barriers for disabled people are too high and we cannot allow bureaucratic time
restriction to be one of them. We
must reduce social isolation and help disabled people into work, education, health. The power to
change this lies with the government and I urge the Minister and his
colleagues to act now, lift the restriction, help to build a transport system that works for everyone. everyone.
17:10
Simon Lightwood MP, Parliamentary Under-Secretary (Department for Transport) (Wakefield and Rothwell, Labour )
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Thank you very much. I start by congratulating the honourable member
for securing the debate and providing the opportunity to discuss
disabled bus passes. I thank other members for their contributions also. I appreciate the concerns
which the honourable member raised and the government knows the value
of the English National
concessionary travel scheme, or the
ENCTS, is limited. We want everyone
to have access to public transport and it must be more inclusive to enable disabled people to travel
safely and confidently and with
dignity and I know disabled people continue to face unacceptable barriers in everyday use of public transport and we are determined to
address them.
We want to work with the sector to drive forward these much needed improvements. Regarding
the specific concerns raised about the concessionary bus travel, I
remind members of the statutory
ENCTS. It provides free travel at certain times on weekdays and all
day at weekends and bank holidays but local authorities have the power
to update the statutory obligation. For example, by extending the time.
He pre-empted my use of the following, Department statistics report 77% of travel concession authorities offer extension to the
beginning of the statutory time
period, allowing householders to --
travel from 9:30am on weekdays and there are concessionary passes which can be offered as a discretionary
and husband.
66% of authorities from Durham to Devon and the York and
North Yorks authority go above and
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beyond the extended times and also offer the passes. I certainly will. I thank the Minister. The key
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I thank the Minister. The key point is that he has admitted that some duties are discretionary to the
councils and some are statutory. The point about companion bus passes for
point about companion bus passes for those disabled people who cannot use
a bus without a companion is, as EDM 1638 makes abundantly clear, as inclusion of the companion bus pass
inclusion of the companion bus pass should be statutory, specifically for those disabled people who cannot use the bus pass without a companion.
There is nothing
companion. There is nothing discretionary about that. They
simply cannot use the bus pass without the companion, the upper, it
should be part of the same statutory element by which to get the bus pass in the first place.
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in the first place. Can I just say that every single local transport authority in the
local transport authority in the country has the ability to go above
country has the ability to go above and beyond the ENCTS and many have
received support that is unlike the previous government to offer the
solution similar to the Hunger Games. We are committed to review
the ENCTS and many of the issues today were considered and I will not prejudge the outcome of the review
but I want to reassure that we have
accessibility and affordability remaining in the commitment to
improving bus services for those who rely on them the most.
We are facing a particularly difficult fiscal
climate and fiscal inheritance. The
ENCTS is vital in supporting the call bus travel and a city with access to essential services in
helping those who use it to stay active and avoid a collision. We must ensure it remains financially
sustainable. The ENCTS cost around £700 million annually and changes to statutory obligations need to
carefully consider the impact on financial sustainability. More
widely, the government is committed to improving bus services across the
country.
The Bus Services Bill was introduced in December and puts
power back at the hands of local leaders across England and is intended to ensure bus services reflect the needs of communities
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that rely on them. I thank the Minister for giving
way. It makes sense for bus services to reflect local needs but whether you have got the disability and need
you have got the disability and need to use the bus is not locally determined but should be fair access
determined but should be fair access to services, forever you live in the
country. -- Wherever. The point of this debate is to ask that it should be organised nationally so that
be organised nationally so that there is a fair access to this and every disabled person's bus pass can
every disabled person's bus pass can be used at any time of day, so that is not just some parts of the country that it works and others
country that it works and others
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country that it works and others I recognise what you are saying and I will outline some of the areas with which the government is helping
with which the government is helping in this area. Improving accessibility is central to our mission. The bill will help us
deliver more reliable and accessible networks. It includes specific
networks. It includes specific measures to make bus travel more accessible and inclusive, including two more consistent approaches to
inclusive divine of bus services. We will also require to create a bus
network accessibility plan, assessing the existing bus networks in the area and identifying actions
they will take to improve them further.
Voice of disabled people will be at the heart of these
reforms. We will develop a bus stop guidance collaboratively with
organisations representing disabled people. And local authorities will be considered to consult with
disabled people on organisations representing them when making significant changes to their bus networks. In addition to this, the
government is committed to producing and national strategy which will set
the vision for transport in England. A key part of the strategy will be
to create the conditions for a transport system that works together
to deliver for its users and make it easy for people to get around.
Everyone should be able to access
real-time information and simplified things, and we have been exploring those themes as part of our
development.
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I thank my friend for letting me take the floor. I'm pleased that the
take the floor. I'm pleased that the Minister has outlined the forthcoming integrated transport strategy. In my constituency of mid
strategy. In my constituency of mid Sussex, there is a railway system
Sussex, there is a railway system that was allocated for funding to make both platforms step free. But still hasn't happened. We are still
still hasn't happened. We are still waiting for an update. I wonder if the Minister will be able to ask the Minister to provide an update on
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that. I thank you for the intervention.
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I thank you for the intervention. There were up to 50 stations which
were funded in terms of feasibility studies on access. I don't know whether the members station is part
whether the members station is part of those, but very happy to take that subject out of the chamber we also know that these plans will be
also know that these plans will be backed up with funding, and that is why the budget allocated more than
why the budget allocated more than £1 billion for 25/26.
This includes 12 1/2 million pounds for York and North Yorkshire combined authority.
North Yorkshire combined authority.
We improve bus services which can be proved this, and we have reaffirmed this through funding allocated as
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part of the spending review. I am incredibly bothered by this
issue of consistency. Disabled driver can use their blue badge at any time of the day. Somebody who is
any time of the day. Somebody who is not able to drive is restricted to being able to only use their bus
being able to only use their bus pass after 930. That seems a very simple unfairness in the system for
simple unfairness in the system for people who do not have the option of driving, and I think that does give
driving, and I think that does give us an opportunity to take a tiny change that would make a massive difference.
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difference. I will reiterate that every single local transport authority has the ability to go above and beyond.
the ability to go above and beyond. I won't give way again. Every local authority has the ability to go above and beyond statutory
above and beyond statutory obligations. Every single local transport authority has been given
money to improve bus services which can be used to top up the statutory provisions. The department has
provisions. The department has conducted a review of this. Many issues that we have talked about
issues that we have talked about today are included in that review and I won't prejudge the outcome of that review, but as I said,
accessibility is very much central to that.
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I hope he notes that I have been quite measured in my speech today, and I believe he wants to put
and I believe he wants to put disabled people at the heart of this review. I'm just wondering if, when the department is looking at the
impact on financials and spending, will we be looking at how disabled people can get to those appointments, if they can get those
appointments, if they can get those opportunities, if they can spend their money in the economies and how
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their money in the economies and how that might feed into an fund some of this. Thank you. As I mentioned earlier
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Thank you. As I mentioned earlier on, the bus services Bill, local authorities will be tasked with
creating an accessibility plan assessing bus networks in the area and identifying actions they need to
and identifying actions they need to do in order to improve access to buses, and once again, through the
bus grant which we give local authorities that they can put in place mitigations in order to improve the accessibility, the
frequency, the reliability of buses in the area.
I would like to thank
honourable members today for their contributions and particularly the member for Harrogate to raise this
member for Harrogate to raise this matter. I am sure we will have many more conversations about this and I applaud his persistence in this
area. I hope this response shows members that this government is committed to working with local
leaders with local leaders and bus
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operators to help deliver better and more reliable and affordable bus services for passengers. The question is that this house
**** Possible New Speaker ****
The question is that this house do now adjourn. The house stands
This debate has concluded