Commons Chamber

Tuesday 8th September 2026

(began 8 hours, 50 minutes ago)

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None Portrait Q5. What assessment he has made of the potential impact of changes to regional funding arrangements on the economies of local communities which either are not part of a combined authority or do not have a metro mayor. (901221)
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month, we will publish plans for further fiscal devolution, including greater retention of business rates, revenue for local councils and strategic authorities.
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Kirsty McNeill Portrait Kirsty McNeill MP, Minister of State (Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office) (Midlothian, Labour )
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very clear. In a referendum in 2013 at the United Nations. Year after year. And to anyone who makes the effort to engage directly with the effort to engage directly with the community, the UK also supports the right of the Falkland Islands to develop their natural resources for their own economic benefit. This is their own economic benefit. This is an integral part of their right to self-determination. This is not the first time the Argentine governments have made economic governments have made economic threats against the islanders.

Yet those threats have not prevented the community's remarkable economic the community's remarkable economic development over the years, and the measures announced by President Millie will not change the UK's unwavering commitment to the Islanders. The UK wants to continue to maintain a modern and constructive relationship with Argentina across a range of shared interests. However, there can be no doubt about our commitment to the Falkland Islanders, their democratic rights and the UK's sovereignty over the Falkland Islands. This government will continue to work closely with the Falkland Islands government to defend their rights now and into the future.

The US is our closest ally. They too are in no doubt about our unwavering support for the Islanders.

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Well, thank you, Mr. Speaker, and for granting this urgent question. As surely as night question. As surely as night follows day, Mr. Speaker, another Argentine president facing economic trouble at home has tried to trouble at home has tried to distract attention by threatening British sovereignty. This is a president whom, I should remind colleagues, was praised by the Leader of the Opposition. When asked whether Britain needed our own military and whether she was
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Calum Miller Portrait Calum Miller MP (Bicester and Woodstock, Liberal Democrat)
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own military and whether she was such a politician, she replied yes and yes. Meanwhile, President Trump, so loudly cheered by members of reform and the Conservatives, has also declared that the US is considering changing its stance on British sovereignty over the Falklands. Mr. speaker, the decision of sovereignty over the Falklands does not belong to President Millett or President Trump. It belongs to the people of the Falklands alone. They have spoken unequivocally and we should support them. The renewed threat to the Falklands should sharpen Ministers minds as the mounting security challenges facing our overseas territories.

The world is more unstable now than at any point since the end of the Cold War. Yet our threadbare navy and hollowed armed forces are perilously overstretched. Meeting the threats to our sovereign territories requires genuine investment. So can the Minister update the House on what steps will be taken to increase our defence spending rapidly, and whether the government is considering Liberal Democrat proposals for defence bonds, investing in our critical.

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deterrence. How will you. Pay for that? President Millett has now threatened sanctions and criminal charges on energy companies operating offshore from the Falklands, including British firms.

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Falklands, including British firms. This would be a direct. James Cartlidge let it go first time. Just had three goals there. Please. Somebody else has got to come in and speak. And I'm sure that your front bench will be

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asking relevant questions without you having to shout down the speaker. This would be a direct economic attack on operations from British sovereign territory. So is the Minister preparing retaliatory measures and sanctions in the event that British companies operating around the Falklands are targeted, the government must be resolute in defending Britain's interests and the people of the Falklands. Has the Minister called on both the Argentine and US ambassadors to make clear that British sovereignty over the Falklands is non-negotiable, and if she is not,

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will she? Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The hon. Gentleman is, of course, completely right that we are in a very right that we are in a very volatile world. But there is one thing that is absolutely unchanging the United Kingdom's position on the United Kingdom's position on the Falkland Islands, which is long standing. The Falkland Islands are a British overseas territory and a British overseas territory and will remain so for as long as the islanders wish. As I stated in my opening, we want a constructive
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Wendy Morton Portrait Rt Hon Wendy Morton MP (Aldridge-Brownhills, Conservative)
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their overwhelming desire to remain British before summer recess. The Leader of the Opposition and I met with MLA Roberts and representatives of the Falkland Islands government. We were clear in reaffirming our unwavering support for the islanders and their right to self-determination. Our continued connection with the Falklands is of vital importance, not just as a matter of history, but as a matter of sovereignty, security and principle. The government must therefore ensure that it is standing up unequivocally for the Falkland Islands and their choice to stay British.

So I'd like to ask, what conversations has the Foreign Secretary and the Ministers had with the United States Administration to ensure that our position, and above all, the democratic wishes of the Falkland Islands are clearly understood? What direct representations has he made to the Argentinian government following president malaise? Latest remarks. And is Argentina raising the future of the Falklands through diplomatic channels with His Majesty's Government? Or is it simply ramping up its language publicly? Argentina has threatened sanctions against companies involved in the lawful development of the Falkland Islands oil resources.

What representations has the Foreign Secretary made in response, and what steps is the government taking to protect those legitimate commercial interests and the Falkland Islands rights to develop their own natural resources? There can be no negotiation over sovereignty unless and until the Falkland Islanders themselves wish it. The United Kingdom must stand

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with the Falkland Islands and the self-determination. Thank you. Yes.

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Yes. Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and I share the hon. Lady's conviction share the hon. Lady's conviction that the sacrifices of British armed Forces personnel should never be forgotten in relation to this be forgotten in relation to this matter, and I share two. Her desire to see the UK government stand up unequivocally for the rights of Falkland Islanders rights to self-determination, which is exactly what we have been doing. We are, of course, in regular ministerial and senior official engagement with Argentina, which is why I can say with such conviction that they are in absolutely no doubt, and no member of this House should be in any doubt about the UK should be in any doubt about the UK government's position.

The future of the Falkland Islands is for Falkland Islanders to determine and nobody else. nobody else.
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Ed Miliband Portrait Rt Hon Ed Miliband MP, Foreign Secretary, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Doncaster North, Labour)
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her in the 1970s in Tel Aviv and seeing the life and sanctuary Israel had provided. Indeed, some Israel had provided. Indeed, some of my most joyful childhood memories were picking oranges as a kid on the kibbutz where my cousins kid on the kibbutz where my cousins lived. Madam Deputy Speaker, my personal story, and that of personal story, and that of thousands of British Jews, is one of the many reasons why I say to anyone here or around the world who anyone here or around the world who questions Israel's right to exist as a homeland for the Jewish people.

You are wrong, and we will call you out whenever you engage in this attempt at the erasure of Israel. Madam Deputy Speaker, I know what the trauma of Hamas's terrorist atrocity of October the 7th meant and still means to people across Israel and to Jews across the world. It was a murderous act by a murderous terrorist organisation designed to massacre and instil fear across a whole population. October the 7th makes plain the grave threats that Israel faces, and it has every right to defend itself.

We should not only condemn those threats, but act against those who carry them out. Iran continues to threaten Israel and Jews across the world. We have already designated I, IRGC, and we will do more today on Iran's proxy groups. So today I can also announce we are sanctioning Lebanese, Hezbollah's financing arm. Arshad al-Hassan. Iran must never have a nuclear weapon. So we are also acting this week to report Iran to the UN Security Council for its nuclear violations alongside our allies.

And I can announce today that we are also reimposing major economic sanctions on Iran,

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in line with the European Union and the United States. Yeah, yeah.

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Yeah, yeah. Madam Deputy Speaker, tackling these threats is just one of the most one of the important shared national security interests we have with Israel, on which we will continue to cooperate. I know, too, that so many members of the Jewish that so many members of the Jewish community now live in fear in the face of rising anti-Semitism, including here in the UK. Last week, including here in the UK. Last week, we commemorated the anniversary of the Heaton Park attack Jews murdered at their place of worship simply for their religion, an outrage that was followed by anti-Semitic attacks in Golders Green, including on the Hatzolah ambulances and the everyday life of Jews in Britain, is deeply affected by the climate.

Such hate creates. When I went to school in the 1980s, I did so without fear. Today we need to face the truth. That is not the case for thousands of Jewish children across the UK. Children who have to go to school with security guards outside their school. Madam Deputy Speaker, no child should have to go to school facing this. And no teacher should face anti-Semitism either in. Whether it happens in our schools, universities or workplaces, or online or on our streets, anti-Semitism is a scourge and an evil.

We are rightly putting in place, putting in place an additional investment of £250 million for community security. But we all have a responsibility to do more. As part of this, I will in October, host representatives of the G7, the countries with the largest Jewish populations from across the world. We will meet in the UK to discuss the different ways we can work across borders to tackle anti-Semitism, including tackling online hate. So, Madam Deputy Speaker, I am proud of my Jewishness and unwavering in my support for the State of Israel.

And there is absolutely no contradiction between this and my support for the State of Palestine. Indeed, quite the opposite. The two state solution is based on an explicit belief that the only route to security for both peoples is to live side by side in peaceful coexistence with freedom, security and self-determination. Securing the two state solution in its fullest form is the north star of this government's policy, and indeed of successive British governments over decades. And it is precisely this belief in the rights and freedoms of the Israeli and Palestinian people that leads many, including me, to a deep sense of shame about what has unfolded in Palestine under the eyes of the international community.

In Gaza, the most unimaginable trauma and suffering in the last three years death, destruction and dehumanisation on an appalling scale, a stain on the conscience of the world and of this country to. And in the West Bank the clear attempt to, in the words of Israeli Finance Minister Smotrich and I quote, bury the idea of a Palestinian state. So, Madam Deputy Speaker, there is a deeply painful contrast between our professed commitment to a two state solution and the reality on the ground in Gaza and the West Bank.

I pay tribute to my predecessors, the current Health Secretary and the right hon. Member for Tottenham, for their tireless efforts on this issue, as well as my right hon. Friend the Member for Lincoln. We should always be proud that it was a Labour government that took the historic step of recognising the state of Palestine, but the Prime Minister is right to say that the Labour government has not done enough in the face of what is happening. So today marks the beginning of a new approach, an approach, an approach that not only calls out injustice and suffering, but acts.

And in taking this stance, I make a very clear distinction which is crucial for us all in this debate. Our argument is not with the people of Israel, with whom the UK has unshakeable bonds. Our argument is with the conduct of its government, and I also want to say emphatically to people in Britain and indeed across the world, holding British Jews responsible for the actions of the Israeli government is anti-Semitism, plain and simple. What we seek today is to salvage the only cause for peace and security for Israelis and Palestinians, the two state solution.

Let me start with the situation in the West Bank. Mr. speaker, Madam Deputy Speaker, at the time of the Oslo Peace Accords in 1993, around 270,000 settlers lived in the occupied Palestinian territories. Today, it is some 770 000 more settlements have been approved under the four years of this Israeli government than in the previous 20 years. Let us spell out what this has meant for Palestinian communities, houses, bulldozed roads and public infrastructure destroyed families displaced from their homes, community by community, family by family, person by person.

Madam Deputy Speaker, 65. Palestinian communities completely expelled since 2023. A total of over 4000 Palestinians evicted from their homes due to settler violence and state actions. And in August, the crossing of a long standing red line, the issuing of E-1 tenders for over 1200 homes. Madam Deputy Speaker, I visited a community in the area covered by E-1 in 2014. The Bedouin communities I met in Khan al-Ahmar had lived on that land for generations. E-1 proposals would evict them and place settlements directly between East Jerusalem and the West Bank, cutting through the heart of Palestine.

Yeah, let's be absolutely clear what this means.

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The creation of a set of facts on the ground to make the two state solution unviable. Yeah.

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Yeah. And on top of official state policy, settler terrorism is rampant. The UN reports an average rampant. The UN reports an average of six violent settler attacks against Palestinians per day this against Palestinians per day this year per day, the highest on record. Take one example. In Al-mughayyir, 20 miles north of Jerusalem, settlers have encircled the village and mounted a campaign of intimidation, largely under the protection of the Israeli military. Families in the village are increasingly cut off from accessing their land, squeezed into ever smaller areas and have olive trees, trees uprooted and livestock stolen.

In the same community just last week, two teenagers were shot when settlers entered the village under police and military escort. Both died before reaching hospital. Madam Deputy Speaker, five teenagers have now been killed from their school this year. Ehud Olmert, the former Israeli Prime Minister, has described what is happening as, I quote, a violent and criminal effort to ethnically cleanse territories in the West Bank. The former Minister of Health and retired brigadier general from the IDF, Efraim Sneh, has said, and I quote again, this is ethnic cleansing, pure.

To put it simply. Madam Deputy Speaker, ethnic cleansing is defined by the UN as a purposeful policy designed by one ethnic or religious group to remove by violent and terror inspiring means the civilian population of another ethnic or religious group from certain geographic areas. The British government agrees that there is ethnic cleansing of Palestinians in areas of the West Bank, perpetrated by settler terrorists, and all too often the Israeli government has turned a blind eye to this, and worse, members of it have made statements and taken actions to support the forced displacement of Palestinians.

Now, Madam Deputy Speaker, I recognise the gravity of saying this, but the truth is the least. The people who face such. It is the least. The people who face such, such, such suffering deserve. And it should be the prelude to justice. Now, for a long time the British government has rightly said settlements are illegal, but we have remained silent on the question of the legality of the occupation as a whole, which in 2024, the International Court of Justice concluded was unlawful.

Today I announced that the official view of the British government is that the occupation is unlawful because because of Israel's entrenchment of its control, its intention to extend permanent sovereignty and its expansionist agenda via illegal settlements. Madam Deputy Speaker, our position is not just an overdue statement of reality. The government believes the unlawfulness of the occupation should be reflected in the economic relationships we choose to have with the occupied territories. I do not believe the British people want us supporting the occupation by accepting products from settlements in our shops and supermarkets.

So I can announce today that we will introduce an import ban on goods from illegal settlements in the occupied territories. To do so will introduce a new comprehensive sanctions regime. Working with my right hon. Friend the Business Secretary with appropriate religious exemptions, and as part of this regime, we will go further. We will take action against specific companies and individuals who provide services such as construction, infrastructure financing or real estate for settlement expansion. So to those who finance or facilitate illegal settlements, let me say this.

You will face the full force of UK sanctions. Settlements are illegal. They should not be promoted in our country. Earlier this year, Madam Deputy Speaker, shamefully, just a few miles from here, we saw an expo advertising illegal settlement land. We must and we will ensure this never happens again. So we. So we will ban the advertising in the UK of illegal settlements. The sanctions regime will target illegal settlements and settlement expansion, not Israel. We will continue to support important and valued trade with Green Line Israel precisely because we support the two state solution, including security and prosperity for Israel.

For this reason, I wholeheartedly oppose the boycott, Divestment and Sanctions, or BDS campaign. The legislation I have announced today will be in place within 6 to 9 months, and we will also take more immediate steps. Today, we are sanctioning a further set of extremist settlers who have supported or incited acts of violence against Palestinian communities. And I can also announce that we are extending the existing global human rights regime such that it will enable swifter action to deter settlement expansion, including, crucially, seeking to prevent the development of E1.

I also want to address the question of arms sales. We've already suspended over 30 arms licences used by the IDF in Gaza. That suspension remains fully in place. We will now also refuse all licence applications for arms and other exports that materially contribute to the occupation. In effect, a double lock against arms sales. This means the ban on such exports will now remain in place as long as the occupation persists. Madam Deputy Speaker, to advance the two state solution, we also need viable and effective Palestinian governance.

So I urge the Palestinian Authority to accelerate reform, and I urge Israel to lift its withholding of revenues that is, frankly, financially crippling the provision of essential services in the West Bank. The set of measures I have announced represents a clear message to the government of Israel, to the Palestinians in the occupied territories and to the world, that we will not acquiesce in the destruction of the two state solution. I turn now to Gaza. The horror of October the 7th appalled the world, and had terrible echoes of the centuries of persecution of the Jewish people men, women, children and babies killed, mutilated and tortured by Hamas terrorists.

People murdered while seeking to protect their families. Young people massacred at a music festival, people abducted from their homes as a 20 point peace plan for Gaza sets out. This is one of many reasons Hamas can play no role in the future governance of Gaza. It must decommission its weapons and must dismantle its terrorist infrastructure. Israel has the right not to live in fear of vile terrorism, and the Israeli state has the right to protect its people and defend its territory.

But, Madam Deputy Speaker, that cannot justify what has happened in Gaza. Over 70,000 people have been killed, at least 20,000 of them children, 20,000 children. The vast majority of the population is now displaced. Nearly 2 million people who are now pended to just one third of the territory. Life saving humanitarian aid and access has been routinely blocked. Hospitals and clinics have been destroyed. Over 60% of homes are in ruins. Madam Deputy Speaker international humanitarian law imposes clear rules for states fighting wars, including to ensure access to food and medical supplies, to avoid mass displacement of civilians and to avoid the targeting of civilians.

Serious and international violations of this law, if proven, amount to war crimes. What has occurred, including the actions of the IDF, have been examined in depth by a number of organisations, including the UN Independent International Commission of Inquiry. The conclusions of these reports represent increasing evidence that war crimes appear to have been committed, and we support legal processes to determine this. On the question of genocide, the UK has always supported full, robust and fair judicial processes to

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Consider. Allegations with. Final determinations made by competent courts before the British government reaches a conclusion.

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government reaches a conclusion. This has. Been the case for all of the genocides since the 1948 Genocide genocides since the 1948 Genocide Convention. Rwanda, Srebrenica, Cambodia and acts against the Yazidi people. That will remain our Yazidi people. That will remain our policy. It is right this issue has been brought before the ICJ, and I want I want to make it clear that we support the court in coming to its determination. So accountability for what has happened in Gaza matters.

But even more urgent is action to address the ongoing crisis, because today in Gaza, Gaza, the death and suffering continue. Nearly a year ago, Madam Deputy Speaker, a ceasefire was declared. Yet over 1200 Palestinians have been killed since, and the people of Gaza are experiencing a totally avoidable humanitarian catastrophe. I'm afraid, driven by decisions of the Israeli government. Last week, I talked to courageous doctors and humanitarian aid workers who have served in in Gaza. It was a heartbreaking conversation.

They recounted children dying, waiting for medical treatment, people forced to live next to open sewage and without shelter and food insecurity rampant. I'm sure the whole House agrees this is unconscionable. So I pledge we will continue to do everything we can to provide all the humanitarian support possible to help the people of Gaza. UK supported hospitals in Gaza will enable around 800,000 medical consultations this year, and essential health service health services for patients. UK expertise will deliver care to over 1000 child amputees, and we recently welcomed another wave of students from Gaza coming to study in Britain and we will welcome more.

But in truth, unless Israel changes course, the situation will remain dire. So we're taking further steps both ourselves and with others. Our extension of the global human rights sanctions regime will enable us to target those responsible for violations of international humanitarian law, whether in Gaza or anywhere else in the world. And we will at the UN General Assembly in New York later this month, shine the clearest and harshest spotlight on what is happening and what must change. With Jordan, we will convene countries across the world to lead a call for action on health and humanitarian access.

We will also lend the UK's voice to the growing global alliance of countries, led by Arab partners in the region, calling for the full implementation of the US led 20 point plan, the rejection of extremism and a lasting end to the cycles of violence. And as we implement the policy measures I have announced today, we will continue to assess the government of Israel by its actions. We want to see a new approach on both Gaza and the West Bank. Madam Deputy Speaker, today we refuse to be bystanders to further suffering and to the destruction of the two state solution.

We call out what is unlawful. We act on the import of goods from illegal settlements. We ban advertising of illegal settlements. We act on services to prevent new settlement expansion. We act on settler violence. We support accountability for what has happened in Gaza, and we pledge to galvanise the international community to confront the ongoing and urgent humanitarian crisis. Above all, we say Britain is not silent in the face of deep injustice, and nor is it powerless. And today we act in concert with others in a broad international coalition.

I can tell the House that today France and Canada are announcing alongside Britain that they will also ban the import of goods from illegal settlement, joining the Netherlands, Ireland, Belgium, Spain and Norway, which have either banned goods or are in the process of doing so with many other countries Denmark, Finland, Iceland, Poland, Portugal and Sweden pledging today they will support further action. Madam Deputy Speaker, this is what Britain can achieve leading with others and this is in our fundamental national interest, because if there is one lesson of recent decades, it's that we will never have stability in the Middle East without a two state solution.

And it is also the case that if we fail to stand up for the values that this country has long held and fought for, we lose credibility and influence in the world. Madam Deputy Speaker, my parents came here as Jewish refugees and found sanctuary and a country that stood up for the rule of law, freedom and self-determination. Those are the values this government is standing up for today. And I truly believe that the vast majority of the British people, including in our communities with ties to the region, are united in their desire to see humanitarian suffering end, and all sides commit to a durable peace process.

And just as we want Israelis and Palestinians to live side by side. So, Madam Deputy Speaker, we have to live out those values in Britain. Jews in Britain, Muslims in Britain, people of all faiths and none have a right to live without prejudice or fear. Madam Deputy Speaker, a Britain that upholds its values at home and around the world. A Britain that fights against oppression and suffering wherever it occurs. A Britain that stands up for what is right. And I commend this statement to the House.

Secretary.
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Tom Tugendhat Portrait Rt Hon Tom Tugendhat MP (Tonbridge, Conservative)
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Tom Tugendhat thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. May I thank the Foreign Secretary for the advance Foreign Secretary for the advance sight of his statement? Now, as we meet today, let me just start with meet today, let me just start with what we agree on. We do agree that illegal settlements are wrong. We all agree that groups of settlers all agree that groups of settlers have been guilty of outrageous abuses of ordinary Palestinians and crimes against innocent civilians. We agree that some Israeli Ministers have indulged in hateful propaganda and incitement.

We agree that the current path is leading Israelis and Palestinians towards a darker, more dangerous future. We agree that Hamas terrorist atrocity of October the 7th left many Jews in Israel and around the world afraid and vulnerable. And we agree that the suffering in Gaza is horrific. But we also agree that those who praise Hamas and other terror groups, or see them as legitimate representatives of the Palestinian people, are wrong. That payments to those who are killed while attacking Israeli civilians are wrong.

That those who call for the destruction of the world's only Jewish state and the murder of its citizens. With cries of from the river to the sea are wrong. Ignoring the victims on all sides and putting at risk the viability of the two state solution is wrong. Now, this isn't about Israel alone, and it certainly isn't about reducing the complexity of the region to a single sentence. But sadly, the government is in the process of doing just that.

When it recognised the state of Palestine only recently. It did so against the laws that we ourselves have defended since 1933, in contravention of the Montevideo Convention, in contravention of the principles that we have set out when it sanctioned Israeli Ministers. It fails to make the case to many others, including to the European Union, and today it is enacting policies that the Foreign Office knows won't work. But it does know they will harm innocents, because just 13 weeks ago, two Ministers of this government, the right hon.

Member for Lincoln and the right hon. Member for Rhondda and Ogmore, wrote to the chair of the Business and Trade Committee rejecting this very policy as the economies of Palestine and Israel are two interconnected. So innocent Palestinians and Israelis will suffer. Still, this government is pressing on in haste despite warnings from the hon. Member for Bury St Edmunds on the benches opposite, and from the government's own reviewer of terror legislation that turning Israel into a pariah will risk sectarian division in our own country and risk a further rise in anti-Semitic violence on our own streets.

As the Foreign Secretary knows, as the Foreign Secretary knows, others are waiting. The Israeli election is in just seven weeks, and many have argued correctly that this action will help the extreme candidates campaigns and not help those who are making the moderate argument for a united Israel. In the week before Rosh Hashanah and the High Holy Days, the government is acting without prudence, introducing sanctions that are both light and serious light because they won't actually target settlers. As the Minister for Intergovernmental Relations has already said, but be stretched to include all Israeli and Palestinian businesses, leaving many without opportunity, including the pharmaceuticals that keep many British patients alive.

Serious because they risk what the Foreign Secretary has himself condemned, encouraging sectarianism and anti-Semitism at home and discouraging cooperation abroad. So I have six questions for the Foreign Secretary. First, can he confirm that the advice from his department has changed so dramatically on the practicality of sanctions that this is coherent and that, in fact, these sanctions will in reality be targeted and not area, as previously stated? Second, what conversations he had with wider partners and allies to coordinate a full international action that might actually work.

And why will he not wait for the result? What? What assessment has he made of the impact on domestic security and community cohesion in the United Kingdom? Barely a year since the first antisemitic murder in our country in generations? Now, what assessment has he also made of the impact on our security partnerships with both Israel and the United States that has kept Iranian regime backed murderers off our streets for the past few years? What instructions has he given to the enforcement bodies to ensure that Parkinson's, myeloma and multiple sclerosis patients will still get the drugs that keep them alive? Will he also now let us know what instructions he has given to the Foreign Office for the accreditation of diplomats to the Palestinian Embassy? Should Hamas win the elections in November and send their own envoys here under diplomatic immunity? Mr.

speaker, we have seen growing anti-Semitism in the United Kingdom, and we have seen increasing violence against Jewish targets. Now, this party will always reject the hate filled sectarianism that we have seen on our streets. We can, and where appropriate, we should criticise the Israeli government and still defend the right of the Jewish people to a home. Mr. speaker, I would like to place on record my and my party's deep sadness at the violence that we have seen in recent months and years.

Our commitment to the right of Palestinians and Israelis to live in dignity and peace, and our recognition of those who have been victims over generations. None of us here reject the government's stated aim, that we must do everything we can to end the cycle of violence. We welcome the sanctions against Al Carlisle al-Hassan and the condemnation of the IRGC. But I'm sorry this government is wrong. As the Foreign Office has previously stated, this policy will damage the interests of innocent Palestinians, Israelis who condemn settlements and the British people.

What we reject here is not the intent, but the performative politics. The acting, the acting without the wideness of support. That leaves our envoys weaker and their voices irrelevant from our own history. We know that you don't

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make peace from just one side, and nor do you make it alone. Foreign Secretary.

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Foreign Secretary. Well, can I, can I thank him for his response? And look, this is our first time opposite each other at the despatch box, so let me congratulate him on his appointment. congratulate him on his appointment. And he has a proud record in Parliament as Security Minister, as Parliament as Security Minister, as chair of the Foreign Affairs Select Committee, and brings great
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Ed Miliband Portrait Rt Hon Ed Miliband MP, Foreign Secretary, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Doncaster North, Labour)
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expertise to this House. I do profoundly disagree with him on his conclusions. I think we he mentioned a number of things that mentioned a number of things that we agreed on at the beginning. I think it's important to highlight them. I think the the. I'll answer them. I think the the. I'll answer specific questions in a moment. But the underlying problem of his position is this, which is he position is this, which is he supports the two state solution with great vigour. He believes in with great vigour.

He believes in the two state solution. He sees the two state solution being destroyed before our eyes and his. I'm afraid his prescription is to do nothing about it and. And there is a choice that we face in this, Mr. Madam Deputy Speaker, which is. Do we stand by. Are we bystanders to the end of a long established government policy. And indeed, the only hope for security and stability in the Middle East? Or do we act and look, we've chosen to act, and I actually think that the country will be with us.

Most of the country will be with us because we cannot simply stand by on, on. Let me take some of his points on the point about the Palestinian people. I say this with the greatest of respect to him, the voices that I listen to more than his. On the Palestinian people are the Prime Minister of the Palestinian Authority and the ambassador of Palestine in the UK. Both of them have been urging us to act and have been urging us to act for a long time.

And I do think actually, it's a profound point here, Madam Deputy Speaker, which is their voices are incredibly important in this debate. I utterly reject the idea that we want to make Israel a pariah state. I couldn't have been more clear in my statement about our friendship with the Israeli people, and indeed our wish to have trade with Green Line Israel. But in a sense, you have to take a view about the occupation if the occupation is illegal, do we want to maintain at the level of principle, normal economic relationships, we say no.

He apparently says yes, and I think that's a mistake. On his point. Let me take his points then in turn, is it a coherent policy? Absolutely it is. And I said it will take 6 to 9 months to come into place, and we will have discussions with members of the House and others. But it's a similar sanctions regime. There are sanctions regimes on a number of other countries. Will it be geographic? It will be in relation to the import ban and it will be focussed on the occupied territory, the settlements in the occupied territories, and we will absolutely ensure it does not hit Green Line Israel, he says.

We should act with others. We've assembled a very wide international coalition precisely to act with others on community cohesion. Community cohesion is incredibly important, but the the point, the absolute core of this, Madam Deputy Speaker, is surely we must all accept what I said in my statement, which is. We can disagree with the government of Israel. We can take action with the government of Israel and at the same time be absolutely steadfast in protecting Jews across Britain and across the world.

And we cannot let these debates be confused on our intelligence partnerships. I am confident about our intelligence and security partnerships, which I talked about in my statement. And on his point about medical supplies and so on. Absolutely. They will be protected. The the point I would end on is this, Madam Deputy Speaker, and I'll say this to all members of this House, one of the things that has been most apparent to me in this job in the seven weeks or so in this job, is Britain is a highly respected partner across the world.

Britain has influence, Britain has reach. We cannot take a view of Britain that we are powerless in the face of injustice. And today we say we are not powerless. We can act.

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David Reed Ruth Cadbury Madam

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Deputy Speaker At last I'm so very happy to finally. See a British government, a Labour British.

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Labour British. Government. Finally doing the right thing and taking a strong stance against and taking a strong stance against the illegal building of settlements in the occupied territories of Palestine. No longer a bystander
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Emily Thornberry Portrait Rt Hon Emily Thornberry MP (Islington South and Finsbury, Labour)
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Palestine. No longer a bystander wringing their hands, the Foreign Affairs Committee unanimously called for this over a year ago. And as I look around this chamber, I see so many people here who have spent years campaigning on this issue, and there are many more outside this place. We are all smiling today. Britain has an absolute obligation to take a strong, clear stance on this issue. As a country that played such a pivotal role in the establishment of Israel during our mandate, but has frankly failed in the protection of interests of the Palestinians.

Can I congratulate the Foreign Secretary for taking

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this very brave stance and for his very powerful and moving statement. Today.

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And to say that I am so proud that this has finally happened. But good Ministers and officials meet good Ministers and officials meet my committee and me and some of our officials to discuss whether we can

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officials to discuss whether we can implement these sanctions as quickly as possible. Well, I'm grateful to my hon.

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Well, I'm grateful to my hon. Friend for her. Her words and I pay tribute to her. And I also want as I should have done, actually, in the statement, Madam Deputy Speaker, to members on on all sides of this House who've been advocates of this issue, and I see them both opposite me and I see them behind me as well. And I also take this opportunity to pay tribute to the people outside this house whose voices have been this house whose voices have been heard in this debate.

We had we've had good discussions, my hon. Friend and I, about these questions, Friend and I, about these questions, and I look forward to working with her and her committee, including on the speedy implementation of these plans. plans.
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Calum Miller Portrait Calum Miller MP (Bicester and Woodstock, Liberal Democrat)
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including in my constituency. I wish also strongly to associate myself on my party with the Foreign Secretary's clear statement that robustly challenging the illegal actions of this extremist Israeli actions of this extremist Israeli government is compatible, both with staunch support for the rights of the States of Israel and Palestine the States of Israel and Palestine to exist, and resolute support for the rights of British Jews to live free from the scourge of anti-Jewish hatred. Liberal Democrats called for years for the prescription of the IRGC.

We will work across this House to support the rights, freedoms and security of the British Jewish community. Madam Deputy Speaker. The recent scenes from Palestine should horrify every member of this House. The abhorrent violence against Palestinians. Families are woken by soldiers breaking down the doors of their homes, evicted. The accelerated annexation of the West Bank, spurred on by extremist Ministers Ben-Gvir and Smotrich, attempts to destroy the possibility of a contiguous Palestinian state through E1 settlement construction and the ongoing humanitarian disaster in Gaza.

The two state solution is being fatally threatened, and that is why today's announcement is greatly welcomed from these benches, but is also long overdue. Liberal Democrats have called for a trade ban for years, and asked the government to declare Israel's occupation in Palestine as unlawful. It is also right that the government has included services in this ban, with those financing or facilitating settlements now facing legal consequences. The Foreign Secretary has billed today's announcement as a reset in our relationship with Israel.

This requires a vision for that future relationship. We want a relationship with Israel based on shared liberal values, but that requires the Israeli government recognising its obligations under international law, not riding roughshod over them. The Foreign Secretary supports the role of the International Criminal Court, the International Court of Justice and the determination of war crimes and genocide. Will he set out how the government is providing resources to allow the ICJ to complete its work? In reaching a judgement, I also welcome the clear statement, long overdue, that the government accepts the ICJ's 2024 opinion that the occupation is unlawful.

Will the Foreign Secretary publish the government's assessment of the duties this creates for the UK? I also welcome the Foreign Secretary's candour that the government has previously failed to do enough. Today's measures cannot simply be symbolic, Madam Deputy Speaker. They must be robust, enforceable and sustained for as long as necessary. So can the Foreign Secretary outline in more detail how enforcement measures would be implemented in response to any violation of these bans. He says that the ban on arms exports will endure as long as the illegal occupation.

Will he confirm that this will include all arms exports, including F-35 parts? Will he spell out more clearly what he means when he says that the existing global human rights regime will be extended? Madam Deputy Speaker, parties across this House have been united in our support with international partners for a two state solution. It is this outcome that will bring peace, security and stability to the Palestinian and Israeli people. As we approach an autumn of elections in Israel and Palestine so critical to the future prospects for peace and justice, can the Foreign Secretary confirm that he will insist that the Palestinian Authority holds to the timetable for elections in November, and that these will be free, fair and open to all parties? And before these elections, will he work with international partners to ensure the disarmament of Hamas? Will he also commit to convey clearly and with no ambiguity, to the government of Israel, that the UK will stand up against breaches of international law and that there will be consequences when these occur.

This extremist Israeli Cabinet has repeatedly acted to erase the prospects of a viable state in Palestine. In doing so, it has furthered a pattern of violence and destruction. Today must be the day that the UK says enough is enough.
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Ed Miliband Portrait Rt Hon Ed Miliband MP, Foreign Secretary, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Doncaster North, Labour)
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Foreign Secretary. for his support for the measures we are announcing today. And I. I recognise his advocacy on this recognise his advocacy on this issue over a over a sustained period. Let me deal with the period. Let me deal with the questions that he's asked in turn on the ICJ we. We do fully support the work of the ICJ, including in the so-called South Africa case. We have previously submitted to the court on the question of Myanmar, which I think will help inform some of their deliberations, and we look forward to them continuing their work.

And indeed, he then referenced the ruling of Unlawfulness and that that is where we have taken a view as a government that the the occupation is unlawful. We we concur with the conclusions of the ICJ. Now. It is. It is then a matter of principle as to what we then do across our economic relationships and. And I've announced today the measures that we are taking. He raises the issue around arms, and I talked in my statement about the double lock. I do want to take on his point on the F-35s, though, just to be clear about this, with the House, we stopped providing direct parts to the to Israel's F-35 program in October 2024 under my right hon.

Friend the Member for Tottenham. When he was the Foreign Secretary. The only provision we make now is to is indirectly to the global supply program. I'm afraid those who say that we should stop supplying parts of the global supply chain are actually advocating for the downing of the whole programme, which is crucial to our NATO and other allies. And I just want to be clear about this now. Now, obviously, our ruling on legality is an important one, and we will continue to keep all of our responsibilities under review, including in relation to the F-35 program.

But I just wanted to set that out for him. On the global human rights regime. We are extending the global human rights regime to international law. We think this will be another important tool that we have to take action, because previously it didn't apply. The charter didn't apply. The sanctions regime didn't apply to breaches of international humanitarian law. And as we set about our sanctions regime for the settlements in the occupied territories, this will give us a faster tool to act.

And I and I'm very happy for us to have discussions about that. I agree with him on the Palestinian Authority and the and the both the support for the reform of the Palestinian Authority, the fact that Hamas must disarm and cannot be part of a future government in Gaza as part of the 20 point plan. And indeed, let's be frank, Madam Deputy Speaker, the need to accelerate the implementation of the 20 point plan, because, you know, I think there was some hope when the 20 point plan was produced.

But but but frankly, you know, the situation in Gaza is unspeakable. And the 20 point plan is not being implemented as it should be. I would just end by saying this, and I say this to him in all parties across this House, I want to work with people across this House who've worked on this issue over a long period. So we get the legislation right, so we get our

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action right. And as much as possible, I think we can be united on this. Liam Byrne thank you, Madam

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Deputy Speaker. Can I. Wholeheartedly welcome this. Well-rounded statement from the. Foreign Secretary today.

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Foreign Secretary today. And put on record my thanks to the new Prime Minister for the hard yards. I know he has put in.

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yards. I know he has put in. Over recent days and weeks. It is not enough to recognise the
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Ed Miliband Portrait Rt Hon Ed Miliband MP, Foreign Secretary, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Doncaster North, Labour)
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Well, I, I do, I do thank him >> Well, I, I do, I do thank him for his words. And I, if I, if I may say, I also read his extremely may say, I also read his extremely eloquent contribution in the backbench debate that took place in July on these questions, and I was July on these questions, and I was incredibly moved by his words in that debate. I believe he is. He is absolutely right in the way that he talks about these issues.

I think he is absolutely right to say that he and I consider ourselves deep friends of Israel, and that is absolutely consistent. And indeed, I would argue necessary in terms of what we are doing today, because there can be no security for the people of Israel without a two state solution and the actions of its government over the past few years has not made Israel more secure. It has made it less secure, and that should trouble all friends of Israel across this country and across the world.



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I appreciate how important this debate is, but questions must be short and Foreign Secretary if we can be short to Sarah Champion.

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can be short to Sarah Champion. Thank you, Mr. Foreign Secretary. I welcome the entirety. Of this.

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Of this. Report, this statement, and particularly the acceptance of the particularly the acceptance of the ICJ advisory recommendation that Israel is indeed illegally occupying Palestine. The ICJ
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Lisa Nandy Portrait Rt Hon Lisa Nandy MP, The Secretary of State for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport (Wigan, Labour)
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Tulip Siddiq thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. Whereas I recognise this isn't the main part of the Foreign Secretary's statement, but I thank him for raising the plight of British Jewish children who are going to school and who are fearful he will know. A lot of these children live in my constituency and their safety is my main priority. But on the subject of children, a recent report showed that 40% of displaced children lose complete access to education in Palestine. I know he has outlined a host of policies and legislation in a statement today.

Has he given any thought to what how he would help these displaced children, ensure they don't lose access to schooling? Just indulge me for one second, Madam Deputy Speaker, could I just say his mother, Marion, who lobbied me endlessly when I was a local councillor, would be very proud of him.

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Well, that was that was worth getting some extra time for. Thank getting some extra time for. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I thank my hon. Friend raises a really, really important issue around really important issue around education. She also raises an important issue around the safety of children in the UK. Jewish

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of children in the UK. Jewish children going to school in the UK will take forward both of those issues. Zarah Sultana thank you, Madam

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Zarah Sultana thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. This government still describes Israel, an apartheid state. Committing genocide. In Gaza as a strategically important partner. It announces a partial arms sales ban while continuing to provide intelligence and F-35 fighter jet components via the international Poole, whether directly or indirectly, Armenian genocide is still arming a genocide, and it announced a settlement ban as a dead cat hoping to distract us from wider UK complicity, the Foreign Secretary could impose full economic and diplomatic sanctions on Israel.

He refuses. He could end all arms sales and intelligence cooperation. He refuses. He could call this what it is a genocide. He refuses. So I ask him directly how many more Palestinian men, women and children must be killed by Union Jack weapons before this

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government finally stops arming Israel completely. OK. I mean, her her her statement is

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I mean, her her her statement is a complete travesty. Madam Deputy Speaker, it is a complete travesty Speaker, it is a complete travesty that this government is taking action. It's taking action on goods. It's taking action on services. It's taking action on services. We've banned the arms licences for the IDF in Gaza. We've taken action the IDF in Gaza. We've taken action across the board. We've declared the occupation as unlawful. It might have been designed for TikTok, but it doesn't.

It doesn't. It really doesn't become a Stella Creasy.

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Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. Can I. Thank the Foreign Secretary for his clear sighted commitment not his clear sighted commitment not just to talk about a two state solution, but to actually try to solution, but to actually try to act to achieve it as the foundation, the only foundation of a safe the only foundation of a safe Israel and a free Palestine, and his clarity that international law matters and who it is who is matters and who it is who is putting at risk the two state solution, which is the current Israeli government.

It is good also
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Rebecca Paul Portrait Rebecca Paul MP (Reigate, Conservative)
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to see him working across the world on this. We can see that we have partners in that mission, but we also know that there are those who would oppose what he's seeking to do. Sadly, we have already heard do. Sadly, we have already heard talk that there will be retaliation, particularly from Israel and America, if the ban goes ahead. America, if the ban goes ahead. Could he just reassure this House that we will not bend to such that we will not bend to such pressure and we will not acquiesce, and the only action that could ever be acceptable, even contemplating reversing this ban, would be a halt on the E1 development and an end, a permanent end to settler violence.

Yeah.

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My hon. Friend speaks with great expertise on these issues, and she's absolutely right. We are going to act in our national going to act in our national interest on the basis of our values. That is, our not just our right as

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a country, but our duty as a country. Deputy. Speaker, and I want to join with everybody in thanking the government for these actions, but I'm deeply concerned about the fear that may have been caused by the shadow Foreign Secretary's comments. Earlier, the Foreign Secretary made it clear this is action against the settlements and confirmed continued trade within the Green Line. Israel. Can he assure our constituents that life saving drugs made in Israel, mainly around the Tel Aviv Central area and not in illegal settlements, are not a threat and that the supply chains for medications will not be affected by this very welcome action.



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I'm really glad that the hon. Lady asked that question. She's absolutely right. So I can answer an emphatic yes.

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an emphatic yes. Yuan Yang thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. Two months ago, our new Prime Minister admitted that new Prime Minister admitted that the UK needed to do better, and today the Foreign Secretary has shown us how things get done by shown us how things get done by working together with our allies to declare a ban on trade with illegal settlements and declaring the settlements and declaring the occupation itself unlawful. Last year, my, my friend the hon. Member for Sheffield Central and I were denied entry to the West Bank for our advocacy in this House, and the Foreign Secretary has already withstood threats and intimidation as a result of his bold, principled stand.

Will he continue to do so with the moral courage he has already shown us?
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Lisa Nandy Portrait Rt Hon Lisa Nandy MP, The Secretary of State for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport (Wigan, Labour)
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Well, I thank my hon. Friend for the question, and she is absolutely the question, and she is absolutely right on this question of access, because because it's true across the board, whether it is politicians or others denied access to see what is going on for themselves. And, you know, that should make one extremely sceptical and extremely fearful, frankly, of what is actually happening on the

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ground. Sammy Wilson Madam Speaker, and I draw attention to my register of interests. The Foreign Secretary has said that his concern is for has said that his concern is for the behaviour of some settlers on the West Bank, and I think we all share that. But would you accept share that. But would you accept that the fear of losing votes to the Green Party and the members the Green Party and the members behind me is also a major reason why he is politically and economically punishing one of our allies, which is a surprise us with important intelligence information.

And what do you accept that this will punish Palestinians? It will eventually lead to a total boycott.

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To be effective. It will lead to economically damaging retaliation. Foreign Secretary before the Foreign Secretary responds, I will have to cut people off. If they continue, that will ruin their social media shots if that's what social media shots if that's what they're here for. There are far too many people still wishing to contribute, and you are only going

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contribute, and you are only going to disappoint your own colleagues. Secretary. I don't accept any of that. And

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I don't accept any of that. And I just say to him, because I've known him a long time, how dare he try and speak for the Palestinian people rather than the Palestinian Prime Minister or the Palestinian ambassador in the UK. Why doesn't he meet the Palestinian ambassador in the UK and hear from him?

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Yeah. Speaker, I'm pleased that my friend the Foreign Secretary started by talking about some of started by talking about some of our shared history of visiting our grandmothers in Israel, which gives him a clarity and authority on him a clarity and authority on these matters that few else in the chamber have. We would not accept chamber have. We would not accept goods from Russian occupied Ukraine, would not accept goods from Chinese occupied Tibet. So why would we occupied Tibet.

So why would we accept goods from Israeli occupied Palestinian territory? I just want to finish by asking him. I still have many guides from students wishing to come to Leeds University, and other colleagues have to other and other colleagues have to other universities, and they are not being able to get their visas. Can we look at a visa like or visa free we look at a visa like or visa free regime for those Gazan students?
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Lisa Nandy Portrait Rt Hon Lisa Nandy MP, The Secretary of State for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport (Wigan, Labour)
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Clive Betts thank you, Mr. Speaker. Could I wholeheartedly welcome the Foreign Secretary's statement, both its content and its statement, both its content and its tone? Could I ask him, in discussions with our colleagues and allies in other countries who are looking to implement similar sanctions as he had a discussion with the Netherlands government, who announced sanctions, their who announced sanctions, their intention to impose sanctions in July, they're going to implement them on September the 22nd. That's two months it's taking them. Could you ask them why they're taking two months when we're going to take 8

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to 9 months? Well, look, I think they have a slightly different regime. But slightly different regime. But we'll I'm in touch with my Dutch colleague and we'll definitely ask him if we can do it more quickly.

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Madam. Madam Deputy. Speaker. I would like. To quote the Egyptian American author who said one day, when it is author who said one day, when it is safe, when there is no personal downside to calling a thing what it is, when it's too late to hold is, when it's too late to hold anyone accountable, everyone will have been against this. Foreign Secretary, I do thank you for your statement. Many of my constituents will thank you. It is late.

It's 70,000 Gazans dead late, but it's still not too late to hold those still not too late to hold those perpetrating war crimes to account. So can I ask the Foreign Secretary what he'll do to hold the war criminals to account?
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Lisa Nandy Portrait Rt Hon Lisa Nandy MP, The Secretary of State for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport (Wigan, Labour)
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For the long awaited announcement, but may I press him on the UK's existing intelligence and security partnerships with Israel, given that experts have Israel, given that experts have said that RAF spy planes over Gaza and Lebanon this year have provided visuals and intelligence to the Israeli military shortly before massive airstrikes. Can you confirm whether the UK government is assessing the UK's legal position regarding the 2020 UK Israel Military Cooperation Agreement? I have asked his department many

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times with no answer. Well. We don't comment on intelligence and security matters, but I can and security matters, but I can honestly, absolutely assure her we are not involved in the occupation. We are not involved in actions in We are not involved in actions in Gaza, in the West Bank. That is not the nature of our intelligence and

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security cooperation with Israel. Iqbal Mohamed Madam. Deputy Speaker, again. May I join the many members across the. House to thank the Foreign Secretary.

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Foreign Secretary. And also the Prime Minister. For this. Statement and. This vital change in government policy. However, many will ask why this action has taken so long since the ICJ advisory opinion was issued in July 2020 for ethnic cleansing. Genocide have continued both in the West Bank and Gaza. So can the Foreign Secretary explain why it has taken the Labour government so long to act, that it will now fully comply with its obligations under comply with its obligations under the ICJ advisory opinion? And will the government be conducting conducting a review of British conducting a review of British policy of non-compliance with international law in Israel?
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Lisa Nandy Portrait Rt Hon Lisa Nandy MP, The Secretary of State for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport (Wigan, Labour)
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Kirsteen Sullivan thank you. Madam Deputy Speaker the Secretary of State for his.

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extend. The gratitude of my. Constituents who have. Already been in.

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Touch with me. I have spoken before in this place about the villagers of drivers in the West Bank who have been living under constant intimidation and fear, with farmers unable to harvest with farmers unable to harvest their crops, children unable to get school. Does he agree with me that today's statement sends an today's statement sends an important message to the people of James Frith across Palestine that they are not alone, and that their

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calls for solidarity and the rule of law to be upheld have been heard. Yes. I feel.

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I feel. Very moved by what my hon. Friend asked, and I really thank her for the work that she has been her for the work that she has been doing. And as I thought about this statement long and hard and some of the words I used. And one has to weigh one's words carefully, I thought precisely that, that those people who are under, for example, people who are under, for example, the settler terrorism, the attempts at ethnic cleansing, they deserve at least the truth to be told about what they are facing.

And so absolutely, today's in part an expression of solidarity with the

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people she's talking about. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I warmly. Welcome the statement from the

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Welcome the statement from the Foreign Minister and the tone, and especially the fact that he referred very clearly to ethnic referred very clearly to ethnic cleansing and an illegal occupation. Now we have to stop the E one settlement, which is a red line for settlement, which is a red line for the two state solution. So I do welcome these sanctions, although we have been told for a long time that they weren't possible. It's that they weren't possible. It's really good to see them today.

But on the sanctions specifically, there are going to be Israeli companies exporting from the Green Line area and occupied territories. We're relying on their honesty to declare that. Likewise, there's military hardware made here in the UK, which might go to Green Line Israel, but might be deployed in Israel, but might be deployed in the occupied territories. So could the foreign Minister explain how he can guarantee that these sanctions will actually work?
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Tahir Ali Portrait Tahir Ali MP (Birmingham Hall Green and Moseley, Labour)
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Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. Madam Deputy Speaker, I was elected to this House not just because the people saw injustice or hypocrisy from the previous Lady Labour leadership, but it was because this topic became a litmus test of credibility, of integrity and morality for the British people that could see what was taking place in Gaza and in the West Bank. Madam Deputy Speaker, I seen the attack on the Foreign Minister being referred to as a Jew hater when he when he came out with this proposal, the disgusting comments by the American ambassador often being labelled as anti-Semitic for talking about justice and for the rights of Palestinians.

So I asked the Foreign Minister, Will you work with us on this side of the House so that we could forge stronger relationships between British Muslims and British Jews, preventing those actors and agitators, even in this House, that

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want to sow division in our community? Yeah. I undertake to work with members across the House on these questions. across the House on these questions. I think actually more unites us than divides us on these on these than divides us on these on these questions. And we do need to act. I think part of acting, I do say to him and others in this House, is upholding Israel's not just right to exist, but its security. I think opposing BDS, because I think part of being faithful to a two state solution is the rights of the Palestinian people and the Israeli people.



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Sonia Kumar thank you. Mr. Tessa Munt. Projects in the West Bank and sanctions. With this in mind, we sanctions. With this in mind, we must think of the Palestinians who are directly impacted and prevented from accessing basic health care, from accessing basic health care, where ambulances are being stopped to travel, acutely unwell patients to travel, acutely unwell patients to hospital and 20,000 children have died. So what steps is my right hon. Friend taking with international partners to ensure that the aggressive Israeli settlements do not prevent Palestinians from accessing health care?

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Well, my hon. Friend is absolutely right. This is a heartbreaking emergency both in the heartbreaking emergency both in the West Bank and Gaza. Part of the advocacy and the work we now want to do, including at Unga, is to

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to do, including at Unga, is to move forward on these questions and make a difference, both in Gaza and the West Bank. Adnan Hussain Madam Deputy. Speaker.

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Speaker. I welcome the Foreign Secretary's statement and the general shift in mood in the House. general shift in mood in the House. However, given Israel as a whole and not just the illegal settlements, is on trial for genocide, should the government not be taking all measures within its power to prevent complicity in genocide, including an immediate and comprehensive suspension of all arms transfers to Israel and an end to the sharing of all military intelligence, an end to all trade that materially supports the Israeli state or its war efforts, a reassessment of diplomatic ties, full compliance with the UK's obligations obligations under international law, including obligations as a signatory to the Genocide Convention.



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Yes. Well, look, I won't answer every point he makes, but I think we've announced a comprehensive set of announced a comprehensive set of measures today. But look, I do say to him, and I don't want to I want to be careful what I say. It's very, to be careful what I say. It's very, very important in our action against the occupied territories. As I said in my statement, this cannot be about the erasure of cannot be about the erasure of Israel.

You know, and and I think it's very important that we all in it's very important that we all in this House respect the role of Israel as a homeland for the Jewish people, protect its security as part of our commitment to a two state solution.
16:01
Lisa Nandy Portrait Rt Hon Lisa Nandy MP, The Secretary of State for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport (Wigan, Labour)
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David Burton-Sampson thank you, Madam. Deputy Speaker, and I, too, welcome these measures announced welcome these measures announced today. We must see the Palestinian people protected and progress clear people protected and progress clear progress towards a two state solution. And I'm proud of the stance of this government. However, I must raise on behalf of my Jewish constituents who have recently continuously talked to me about the rise in anti-Semitism. So can he give me an assurance that this government will continue to work towards greater community cohesion in this country and ensure that all British Jews and all British

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Muslims are protected? Absolutely. And, Madam Deputy Speaker, this must be a campaign for us all. It must be a campaign for us all. It is about government. But look, truthfully, it is also about us as a society that is even more about a society that is even more about us as a society, because there's no government can do its bit, but it's about each of us as individuals on

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about each of us as individuals on what we do to counter anti-Semitism. Lorraine Beavers. Thank you. Madam Deputy Speaker. I thank

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Madam Deputy Speaker. I thank the Foreign Secretary for his action today demonstrating British leadership on a global stage, and I hope he agrees with me that it's long overdue. Settlement expansion is a project driven by the Israeli state. So I ask, will he consider further actions such as suspending

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the UK Israel trade agreement? I do say to my hon. Friend, you know, we believe that trade with know, we believe that trade with Green Line Israel is important. We value it, and we don't believe that value it, and we don't believe that it should be ended. I think it's so important in this House. We make this distinction between the

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occupied territories and Greenland. Israel. Mohammad Yasin thank you very much, Madam Deputy Speaker. I have been privileged to support Bedford, friends of Al-walaja and my children who, despite the horror they have endured, are full of hopes and dreams for the future. But their village's only school is now under threat of demolition by the Israeli authorities. I welcome the government's action to ban trade with illegal Israeli settlements, but what intervention settlements, but what intervention can he make to protect Al-walaja co-educational school in the West Bank and uphold these children's Bank and uphold these children's rights to education under international law?
16:01
Vikki Slade Portrait Vikki Slade MP (Mid Dorset and North Poole, Liberal Democrat)
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I think.

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Minister for the Middle East will take that issue up. John Grady thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I welcome the Deputy Speaker. I welcome the Foreign Secretary's emphasis on international law, which is important in Gaza, in the West Bank, important in Gaza, in the West Bank, but also elsewhere for people who have committed atrocities in Sudan. At El Fascist Hospital, babies and At El Fascist Hospital, babies and children's must also be held into account. Can I ask my right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary, to reaffirm our government's absolute commitment to the independence and

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proper resourcing of the International Court? Yes, absolutely. He's completely right.

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right. Chris Kane the Secretary's words and actions are strong welcome, and. I know my.

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I know my. Constituents would want to say overdue. Does he agree with me that it's incumbent upon all of us in it's incumbent upon all of us in this House, and to my point across the country, to always, always be guided in the actions that we take guided in the actions that we take to ensure we're doing all we can to achieve a two state solution. The only way to bring a just and

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lasting peace to the lives of all Israeli and Palestinian citizens. I 100% agree with my hon.

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Friend Lizzi Collinge. Mr. speaker, I am very glad to see this ban on trade with legal settlements with which myself and settlements with which myself and many others have called for for a long time, and I also welcome the Foreign Secretary's comments on the Foreign Secretary's comments on the safety of British Jews who are being violently targeted by racists being violently targeted by racists simply for being Jewish. Will the Foreign Secretary join with me in urging the Israeli government to pull back from their expansionist actions and instead work with us, work with the international community towards a safe and secure

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Israel alongside a free, democratic Palestine. I totally share what she said

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about this or a future Israeli government. We want them to draw back. We want them to change course. Mr. Ferguson.

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Mr. Ferguson. Deputy Speaker And can I very much welcome the Foreign Secretary statement today, which will come as a very welcome addition to the debate. I was very proud when this government took the historic decision to recognise the state of decision to recognise the state of Palestine, but the very prospect of a single unified Palestinian state is under, as we have heard, enormous threat from the expansion of illegal settlements in the West Bank. And having visited that area with members from across the House earlier this year, the sheer scale of the E1 settlement makes it absolutely clear that Israel is determined that there should be no possibility of a contiguous possibility of a contiguous Palestinian state.

So does the Foreign Secretary agree with me that anyone, and I mean anyone who that anyone, and I mean anyone who believes in a just and lasting peace in the Middle East, must also oppose illegal settlement expansion oppose illegal settlement expansion and the violence that so often comes with it.
16:02
Lisa Nandy Portrait Rt Hon Lisa Nandy MP, The Secretary of State for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport (Wigan, Labour)
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Yes, I absolutely concur with my

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hon. Friend. She speaks very, very eloquently about this. Colum Eastwood can I commend the Foreign Secretary for making what I Foreign Secretary for making what I think is the most powerful principle, that important speech by any British Minister for many, many any British Minister for many, many years on the issue of Palestine. The people of Derry understand well that it is in the moments of that it is in the moments of greatest despair that those who are committed to hope come to the fore.

Can I ask him to continue to travel Can I ask him to continue to travel in hope, to hold together the coalition he has built, and do everything he possibly can to bring

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peace to the people of Palestine and Israel? I thank my hon. Friend is absolutely right. This is just the beginning of what we must do in beginning of what we must do in this endeavour and. And there is so much more to do.

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much more to do. Jayne Kirkham thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. My constituent, Jim Henderson, was. Killed in.

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The World Central Kitchen attack on 1st April 2024. Two weeks ago, the Israeli authorities said there the Israeli authorities said there would be no further investigation. Our government and the Canadian and Australian governments condemn this decision. The commander who ordered the strike said he doesn't regret it. What more can we do to ensure

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accountability? I want to send my deepest condolences to the family of my constituents, my. The constituent of my hon. Friend is a horrifying event. What happened? These were people trying to make a difference people trying to make a difference in a humanitarian way to the people of Gaza. I endeavour to to talk to
16:02
Chris Kane Portrait Chris Kane MP (Stirling and Strathallan, Labour)
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of Gaza. I endeavour to to talk to her. And along with my hon. Friend the Minister for the Middle East, about whether and what more we can

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do on this issue. Cat Eccles thank. You, Madam. Deputy Speaker. And can I welcome the Secretary

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And can I welcome the Secretary of State's announcement today and the moral courage the government is taking to sanction trade with taking to sanction trade with occupied territories and condemn expanding illegal settlements. But the Israeli state will not listen the Israeli state will not listen to the UK alone, and collaboration with global partners gives the strongest leverage. Could he say strongest leverage. Could he say some more about how he's acting alongside international colleagues to demonstrate coordinated opposition to illegal settlements and human rights atrocities, and reinforcing international support

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for the two state solution? I thank my hon. Friend is actually really a really important actually really a really important point, which is it's the coalition of countries that we have today, as well as our actions that can give well as our actions that can give us hope that we can actually make a difference on this issue, both substantively in relation to substantively in relation to sanctions, but also on all of the humanitarian issues that so many members have raised.

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Josh Fenton-Glynn thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I welcome the hon. Friend's statement today. Violence and intimidation carried out by settler extremists, and the expansion of settlements mean that there can't be a two state solution, but illegal settlements and outposts targeting Palestinian civilians would not happen without the collusion of the Israeli army. Can my right hon. Friend, please confirm to me that he is making representations at the highest level that collusion with extremist settlers must stop?

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Yes, absolutely. But I say this with some sorrow, Madam Deputy Speaker, which is it's Madam Deputy Speaker, which is it's been obvious that there has been collusion for a long time now, and the collusion has been allowed to continue. That is that is the view of former Israeli prime Ministers, of former Israeli prime Ministers, frankly, former Israeli generals who have spoken out on this issue. But I continue to urge the
16:03
Lisa Nandy Portrait Rt Hon Lisa Nandy MP, The Secretary of State for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport (Wigan, Labour)
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government of Israel to deal with this. >> Andrew Pakes thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. It is 29 years this week since I first visited Israel and the West Bank, and I've been a supporter of peace ever since. So can I start by putting on record my tribute to all the victims from all sides who have suffered during this period, not least those who suffered at the hands of Hamas and the 20,000 children who have perished in Gaza. While self-defence is important, it is not a green light to ethnic cleansing or to illegal occupation.

We need international law as set out by the Foreign Secretary today, and I welcome the statement and also welcome him being joined by our hon. Friend for Luton North, a great campaigner on this issue on the front bench. Can I ask that my right hon. Friend, whilst international law is threatened by many actors around the world, what more can we do not just to support

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justice, but to support the justice? I also pay tribute to my hon.

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I also pay tribute to my hon. Friend the Member for Luton North, and I say more widely that he is absolutely right. We need to work absolutely right. We need to work with our international partners at this time of all times to uphold international law in Gaza, in the

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West Bank and elsewhere. John Slinger thank you. Madam Deputy Speaker. I am a strong. Supporter.

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Supporter. Of the state of Israel's right to exist in security and prosperity and the state of Palestine, to exist in security and prosperity. So does my right hon. Friend agree with me that to achieve this, it is absolutely essential that the measures that he is. I'm very welcome to say the measures he's outlined today take place at pace. And we can demonstrate that the State of Israel, under this current Israeli government does not get to

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determine the destiny of the West Bank and, for that matter, Gaza. He is absolutely right. And I do

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He is absolutely right. And I do say also just to to members of the House, you know, I am very critical of the current government, but it's been a it's been a long over a long period that this occupation has become entrenched. We have to work become entrenched. We have to work to, to unwind it and find ways in which we can get back to a two

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state solution, and we have to act urgently. Speaker. I thank. Foreign Secretary for his moral leadership today. Since coming to this House, hundreds of Gloucester residents have told me that the government could and should be doing more in the light of the atrocities in Gaza, in the West Bank. It's a point I've made in this House and to Ministers directly, and I'd like to thank him for acknowledging those concerns today and for going further. Does he agree with me that this shows that the government isn't just going to show warm words in the light of these atrocities, but it's going to take action to uphold the values that we hold dear? values that we hold dear?
16:04
Ashley Fox Portrait Sir Ashley Fox MP (Bridgwater, Conservative)
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My friend, is a really important point, which is this is this issue has mobilised ordinary British people right across our country. And I think it's really, really important to understand that. And, and, and it is the immorality of what is happening that has really stirred the conscience of millions

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of people across our country. And it is right that we act. Josh Newbury. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. Palestinians in the West Bank

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Palestinians in the West Bank have told the world of being held at gunpoint, a blockade of search lights and lasers being shone into lights and lasers being shone into their homes and at their livestock. Does the Foreign Secretary agree that, given the integrity of the E1 zone is essential for a two state zone is essential for a two state solution, that the international community should do whatever it can to prevent settler occupation, and that settlements constructed there should be dismantled as part of the see.



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Yes, he's absolutely right about this. And E1 crossed a long standing red line for the international community, which is international community, which is why you saw such an outpouring from our allies. And he is absolutely right about the urgency of acting.

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right about the urgency of acting. Joe Morris thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I congratulate the Foreign Secretary on his statement and the Secretary on his statement and the manner in which it was delivered. I want to ask about international collaboration and how the allegations of war crimes can be addressed, compiled and eventually those responsible brought to justice. I'm thinking not only of the situation in Gaza and in the West Bank, but also of the actions in southern Lebanon, so the Foreign Secretary could illuminate me on plans to make sure that alleged crimes are properly, properly compiled.
16:04
Lisa Nandy Portrait Rt Hon Lisa Nandy MP, The Secretary of State for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport (Wigan, Labour)
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Well, this. >> Is something that we obviously work with the courts on, and I think the most important thing is upholding the role of both the ICC and the ICJ in these processes. They are incredibly important institutions in the view of the

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British government. Thank you for your patience. Douglas McAllister thank you very much, Madam Deputy Speaker.

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very much, Madam Deputy Speaker. During the debate in this House on the 9th of July, I and other members Raised our concerns about charities working in the illegal Israeli settlements, and in particular, the use of taxpayers money through gift aid money through gift aid contributions to those charities. As a result, I received a response from the Charity Commission for England and Wales sharing those England and Wales sharing those concerns about the potential impact, including on public trust and confidence, the charity sector of charities being seen to actively assist in the development of expansion of illegal settlements in

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Palestine. So what more will the Foreign Secretary do in light of today's statement, to. Ensure that gift aid is not

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Ensure that gift aid is not given to organisations linked to settlements? Well, I will undertake to look

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Well, I will undertake to look at that issue. Madam Deputy Speaker, we are very clear that we do not want to see illegal settlement settlement expansion. And so I promise to look at it. And I want promise to look at it. And I want to just take this opportunity to thank all members of this House for their questions. And I reiterate, Madam Deputy Speaker, that it is my undertaking to work with members across Parliament as we take

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forward these issues. That is the end of the statement on Israel Palestine. If the front benches wish to

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And And I And I will And I will now And I will now start And I will now start the

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statement. Secretary of State. Thank you. With permission, Madam Deputy Speaker, I would like to make a Speaker, I would like to make a statement on the next steps this government will be taking to protect children online. This protect children online. This government's ambition is to be the world leaders in shaping an online environment that works for us. We environment that works for us. We intend to be an active government that helps to create an online environment that is not just safe, environment that is not just safe, but enabling and empowering.

That starts with fixing the fundamentals, and this house can expect to see us acting more quickly and more decisively from now on to keep us safe online. In December of last year, the government published its action plan to tackle violence against women and girls. I would like to put on record my gratitude to the hon. Member for Leicester West, who I think is here today, and to the hon. Member for Birmingham Yardley, for their clear ambition and determination that the UK would become the first country in the world where it would be impossible for children to take, share or view nudity online.

In June, the government challenged industry on a three month timeline to work with us and set out roadmaps for how they would strengthen device level protections for children with a view to preventing children from taking, sharing or viewing nude images on phones and tablets. Today, I can update the house on the progress that has been made and the next steps that this government will take to protect protect children. Since June, officials from my department and the Home Office have overseen an unprecedented work programme, with Apple and Google working with senior leaders and
16:05
Alex McIntyre Portrait Alex McIntyre MP (Gloucester, Labour)
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engineers to explore new ways of preventing child sexual abuse and strengthening protections for strengthening protections for children online. I can report that following this engagement, Apple and Google have provided the government with significant commitments. Both companies have developed meaningful changes at operating level to make it harder operating level to make it harder for children to share nude imagery. We've seen progress in the blocking, We've seen progress in the blocking, not blurring of nude imagery on underage devices, and this builds on significant milestones already in implementation.

Apple's recent rollout earlier this year of operating system level age assurance, tighter safety features preventing a child from receiving or sharing nude imagery on iMessage or FaceTime. These proposals are a step in the right direction. However. The truth is, Madam Deputy Speaker, they do not meet the scale of this crisis. Children are facing unacceptable levels of sexual harm online. They are being groomed, coerced and manipulated into creating and sharing intimate images across online services. The Internet Watch Foundation believes that 91% of these images are self-generated by children themselves.

They are used for blackmail and sexual extortion. Each year, around 9000 child sexual abuse offences involving online element with under 18 the subject of almost a quarter of online blackmail. Madam Deputy Speaker, I challenge anyone to listen to those statistics and come to the conclusion that the internet is a safe place for kids, or to come to the conclusion that the government should not get involved. This is not the first time in history that new forms of technology have upended society.

But what is unique to this moment is that technology has been developed almost exclusively in the private sphere. So I want to be clear today that
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Lisa Nandy Portrait Rt Hon Lisa Nandy MP, The Secretary of State for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport (Wigan, Labour)
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there is a central role for government in shaping that technology for good, not just to protect from harm, although that is a basic obligation of any government, but to enable and government, but to enable and empower when it comes to the development of technology that affects our lives, we are not affects our lives, we are not neutral. In no other walk of life would we tolerate this crisis harming our children. We will not harming our children. We will not tolerate it online for too long.

Technology companies have failed to protect children from some of the worst harms. And to be frank, I am not prepared to give them the benefit of the doubt that progress will continue at the pace that we need it to, while harm is being done now. For that reason, I want to make the following announcements to the House. First, the government is today committing to introducing primary legislation to require major tech platforms to build in device level protections for children. This will be introduced to Parliament as soon as we can, recognising the urgency of this issue, whilst ensuring we work with colleagues across the House to get it right.

We want to see movement on this quickly. If platforms in scope of this draft legislation develop and implement technical solutions while our work is ongoing, we will of course reassess whether legislation is necessary. We know that this is a sector that can, when required, innovate at an extraordinary pace when the chips are down. But alongside these measures on devices, the government will also require apps that children use to prevent them from accessing or sharing nudity as soon as possible.

We will explore what legislation is needed to implement this commitment, with a view to moving as quickly as possible. This will ensure that the whole ecosystem changes. Tackling the means by which children are most often abused or groomed online. Put simply, we will give tech companies the chance to lead. We will not give them the chance to lag. Madam Deputy Speaker, these measures, taken together, will make Britain the first country in the world to go this far and a world leader in online safety.

The message we are sending to tech companies is clear planning must now become implementation, and progress must translate into protections that make a real difference in children's lives. I give my commitment to all members of this House and to anybody listening out there in the country who has been desperately worried about what is happening to our children online, that when it comes to children's safety, we are not and never will be bystanders. And I commend this statement to the House.

Shadow Secretary of State.

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Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I thank the Secretary of State in advance for sight of her statement, and I must say that it is very heartening that she so clearly recognises the seriousness and urgency of this child safety issue before us. I welcome the spirit of today's statement in two capacities today's statement in two capacities as Shadow Secretary of State and also as a mother. I think every parent wants to know that when parent wants to know that when their child inevitably picks up a phone, that we have done everything reasonably possible to protect them from exploitation, abuse and harmful content.

We should take a moment to remember children like 16 year old Murray Dowey, who took his own life just hours after being tricked into sending an intimate image online. No young person should ever be put in that position, and no family should ever have to endure such a tragedy. I therefore welcome the Secretary of State's focus today on device level protections, particularly the commitment that children will be prevented from taking or sharing nude images on their devices. That is a huge practical step which has the potential to prevent immeasurable harm.

Device level protection is, in fact, something I remember raising from the backbenches before summer recess, so I am pleased that this work is being pursued. But whilst the good intent is clear, it is often the execution that can be more challenging. So I would welcome more detail on her plans, including on what exactly can be done to ensure tech companies are taking more responsibility in this space. Before recess, the government set technology companies a clear three month deadline. Ministers said that if sufficient progress was not made, they would act.

The Secretary of State's assessment today is that progress has not been good enough, so the House now needs to know exactly what will happen next. We have heard a commitment to primary legislation, but as soon as we can is not yet a timetable. When does the Secretary of State expect to introduce that legislation? And she has also said that the government may reassess whether legislation is necessary if companies make sufficient progress in the meantime. What precisely would constitute sufficient progress and who will make that judgement? I would also welcome clarity on the devices themselves.

Is the aim for these planned protections to apply only to new phones and tablets, or will companies be expected, wherever technically possible, to push them through software updates to devices already in use? Millions of phones are in young hands today at this
16:07
Kirsty Blackman Portrait Kirsty Blackman MP (Aberdeen North, Scottish National Party)
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very moment, protecting only the next generation of devices would leave a very large gap. And where leave a very large gap. And where older devices cannot support these measures, what assessment has she made of the scale of that problem? made of the scale of that problem? The Secretary of State has also said today that there is a central role for government in shaping role for government in shaping technology for good. That is a very broad proposition, and I can. I hope that she can reassure the hope that she can reassure the House about exactly what she means by this.

While the opposition wants to see device level protection and supports further exploration, really it is just one part of a far larger picture. Here I pay tribute to my right hon. Friend the Shadow Education Secretary, who has led the charge by the Conservatives on stronger online protections for children. As His Majesty's opposition, we have relentlessly pushed for restrictions on social media for under 16 seconds. To be frank, the government got to the right place in the end, but we did have to drag them kicking and screaming.

Can the Secretary of State therefore confirm that the under 16 social media restrictions remain on course for early 2027, and that the necessary age assurance and enforcement arrangements will be ready in time? There is considerable common ground across this House. We want parents to be more empowered, children to have stronger protections, and technology companies to take responsibility for the content they display to young people. I look forward to working constructively across the House and with the Secretary of State and the Ministers towards these very worthy

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goals. OK, can I can I really thank her

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OK, can I can I really thank her for the way that she's engaged with these proposals? And I'll try my these proposals? And I'll try my best to to very briefly answer as many of her questions as possible. First of all, on the detail, I've instructed my officials today to begin working up legislation. I appreciate it's frustrating when a government Minister comes to the despatch box and says, we intend to do this imminently, or, I mean, you know, the hon.

Lady's party has been in government. They they understand the difficulties. But I do really want to reassure her and the whole House that we do intend to do this without delay. The only reason there isn't a firm timetable on this at the current moment is because we're the first country in the world to do it. And there are a number of questions, some of which she posed, which we do need to iron out in order to make sure that we get this right. In terms of what would constitute sufficient progress that would.

Put rid us of the need to to introduce legislation. The reason that I say this is, first of all, is because I would much rather actually, that the technology companies moved at pace to meet their own social and moral obligations. But in the absence of that, the government will step up and act. And what would constitute sufficient progress? Well, frankly, if we were able to reach a situation very quickly, which we should be able to do with the right will where children were not able to take or share nude images, then the problem would be solved.

But I have to say, based on what I've seen in terms of progress over the last three months, I think it is almost certain that
16:08
Lisa Nandy Portrait Rt Hon Lisa Nandy MP, The Secretary of State for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport (Wigan, Labour)
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we will be legislating in this area. She talks about which devices, phones and tablets at a minimum, phones and tablets at a minimum, but I accept the point that she makes, and we are exploring whether it's possible to extend this to it's possible to extend this to other forms of technology. What do I mean by shaping technology for I mean by shaping technology for good? I, you know, I'm a I'm a big supporter of the, the action that we're taking on social media for, for children.

And I, you know, I say this as well as the mum of a 11 year old and, you know, someone who's going through it at the moment and trying to help navigate that. I know all parents across the House will recognise the challenges that we've got, but I would love us to get to a situation as a country where all people, including children, can be online, can find good trusted information, can find things that help them to be creative, to feel empowered, to enable them to live the richer, larger lives that they want to live.

And I think the government has a right and proper role in helping that to happen. One of the ways in which we're already doing that, building on the great work of my hon. Friend the Member for Leicester West, is through gov.uk and trying to use gov.uk as a pioneering service that really does help people to live better lives. And can I just gently say to her that she says that this government had to be dragged kicking and screaming to doing this? I have to say that her party was in government for a very long time, and the amount of time it took them to, to try and introduce any legislation in this area at all was actually quite shameful.

That's not to to downplay the role that some members of the opposition party played in making sure that we got there. But I do have to say that if it wasn't for my hon. Friend, the Member for Leicester West, I don't
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Tom Collins Portrait Tom Collins MP (Worcester, Labour)
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think I would be standing here today in a position to announce this. And I think some credit where credit is due, that this is the credit is due, that this is the government that has is leading the world in keeping children safe. And the last thing she asked me about, the last thing she asked me about, which I know many colleagues are concerned about, is the social media ban that we announced earlier media ban that we announced earlier this year. And I can reassure the House that we do intend to stick to House that we do intend to stick to both the spirit and the letter of what the hon.

Lady set out earlier this year. We are on track to meet the timetable that she set out to lay the first regulations by the end of this year, and for the ban to come into force in the spring of 2027. We are also intending to go somewhat further than our initial proposition statement. I'd welcome the opportunity to talk with her in more detail about that.

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Liz Kendall. Speaker. I would like to really welcome

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I would like to really welcome the announcement made by my right hon. Friend today. It will indeed hon. Friend today. It will indeed be a world first to take this action on device level protections protecting children right across protecting children right across the country. And I'm very proud to be part of a party and a government that is doing that. I'd also like that is doing that. I'd also like to thank her for confirming that the vote on the ban on social media companies providing their services to children under 16 will take place this year.

For the ban to come into effect early next. Could she say more about the timetable for other proposals that were also made on AI chatbots, curfews overnight and bans on doomscrolling for older children? Because together, those packages will make the world a safer, better place for

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children online as well as the work we're doing offline. Yeah. You know, wants to go and pay tribute to her and thank her so tribute to her and thank her so much for that and for all of her support, both when we work together support, both when we work together in government. And since she really is a class act, I, in terms of is a class act, I, in terms of giving a firm timetable around those measures that she that she those measures that she that she mentioned.

I'm not in a position to do that now, but I will commit to coming back to her with a firm timetable, because I know that members across the whole House will want to know that there will be no delay in taking action on those things. We are also looking at a more comprehensive system, very much in the spirit of the the, the the reforms that she set out earlier this year. And we intend to also move quickly on that without delay.

I don't think we'll be in a position to do the whole package by the end of the year, but I would be very disappointed if we hadn't made enormous progress by then, including meeting the commitments that she set out, and I would be particularly disappointed if by this time next year, we didn't have a much more robust and comprehensive package of measures in place.
16:09
Lisa Nandy Portrait Rt Hon Lisa Nandy MP, The Secretary of State for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport (Wigan, Labour)
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Liberal Democrat spokesperson >> Liberal Democrat spokesperson Anna Sabine thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. When the last Prime Minister gave tech giants three Minister gave tech giants three months to voluntarily implement technology that would prevent children from taking a sharing nude children from taking a sharing nude images, the Lib Dems were clear that we shouldn't rely on the goodwill of companies that have repeatedly put profits before children's safety. And I'm pleased to see that today the government agrees with us. The need for action can't be clearer.

In 2024. 91% of online child sexual abuse reports involve self-generated content from children online, and last year there was an 8% rise in child sexual abuse image offences across the UK. These aren't just statistics, Madam Deputy Speaker. They're real children being exploited online. This is a serious problem that demands serious legislation urgently, which is why the Lib Dems welcome today's announcement of primary legislation that requires device level and app level protections for children online. However, this House has heard the phrase as soon as possible many times before, and I do hear what the Secretary of State is saying about a timetable for legislation.

But what she said earlier slightly hinted that possibly what the tech giants were doing might affect the progress of that legislation. So I would seek some reassurance that legislation will be ploughing forward regardless of what they're doing. Secondly, the Lib Dems are supportive of legislation that protects children from abuse online, but protection can't come at the expense of privacy, and any legislation that's brought in must be accompanied by guarantees that technology will be highly effective and preserve privacy. Can the Secretary of State confirm that this will be the case? Too often, the government has left tech companies to mark their own homework, and I'm glad that today they've decided enough is enough.

But this is an announcement that could have been made three months ago. If we truly want to protect our children, we need a government that acts before harm is done, not one that waits until it's too late. And I hope that as the Secretary of State has intimated, going forwards, that will be the case.
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Julian Lewis Portrait Rt Hon Sir Julian Lewis MP (New Forest East, Conservative)
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Yeah. Can I can I thank her for her support for these measures? And she asked me a number of questions. she asked me a number of questions. Will the legislation be developed regardless of the the action taken by companies? Yes. Yes it will. And my officials have begun today in drawing up that legislation. There are specific issues that both she and the hon. Lady raised that we will, of course, want to discuss with parties opposite and with colleagues on these benches as well, to make sure that we get it right.

Privacy is one of those. It is not our intention that we ignore or sideline the privacy concerns, and we do believe that it is perfectly possible to do this without without encroaching on privacy in any way. There is a particular challenge around end to end encrypted services which shall be aware of. It's something that I would very welcome cross-party discussion about, but we have a number of potential solutions to that that we're currently exploring, and it would be good to discuss that with a further.

And finally, she heard what I said about acting quickly and more decisively. Many colleagues will know that before I came into this place, I worked with children and young people. Keeping children safe is the first and most basic responsibility of any government, and I'm very pleased to hear such a broad consensus for

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that across the House. Jess Phillips. Thank you, speaker. I feel that the previous two statements are the the previous two statements are the two things that I've previously resigned on. So. My moral compass is back. First and foremost, I want is back. First and foremost, I want to, I suppose, help out the honourable, my hon. Friend on the honourable, my hon. Friend on the frontbench and to to those who are concerned about the timeliness of this, I think that the the original statement maybe had a time frame in.

And actually what I found in my negotiations with her was that it wasn't quick enough and actually, as soon as possible is quicker than maybe what was going to be suggested. And so I have every faith that she will do this quickly. I want to stress the importance of the take element. There is no privacy issue when you just stop children taking the image in the first place. The image doesn't exist for it to to go anywhere. But the take is the thing that the tech companies for some reason are faltering on.

The take is the most important thing to stop children being abused and groomed. It moves the market away from our children here in the UK. They won't be able to use their phones for that terrible market of sexual abuse, any more than they will be to make toast, because that won't be what it is for. But so I have to stress the take in this process. What I would like to say, though, is that when we remove the UK market, we will send it somewhere else in the world.

And I ask the Secretary of State to work with partners across the world to make sure that while we lead the world, we're not standing alone for too long.

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She makes a typically well informed and well thought out informed and well thought out points. And can I thank her for for not just for her support, but actually for all the work that she's done to make sure that we she's done to make sure that we we've got here. I know that she is appreciated not just by me, but by appreciated not just by me, but by many of the incredible, brave families that I've had the privilege to get to know over the
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Lisa Nandy Portrait Rt Hon Lisa Nandy MP, The Secretary of State for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport (Wigan, Labour)
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privilege to get to know over the last few weeks who, who have wanted to see action in this space for a very long time. And I pay tribute to them as well as to her. She makes the really important point about working with governments and other partners across the world to keep children safe. That is, you know, the promise of the UN convention on the rights of the child, that a children at harm, a child harmed anywhere, means that children can be harmed everywhere.

And we have to take that really seriously. I think she should be encouraged. I suspect she is encouraged by the fact that there are many governments now acting more decisively, stepping up and recognising that the development of new forms of technology and the regulation of new forms of technology cannot be left to the private sector alone, there is a clear role for active, empowering governments working in this space, and we have not hesitated. My hon. Friend and I have not hesitated to reach out to like minded governments across the world to see what more we can do together.

Chair of the Select Committee, Dame Caroline Dinenage, thank you.

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Very much, Madam Deputy Speaker. I also warmly welcome this announcement. The sheer number of announcement. The sheer number of young people whose lives have been impacted, impacted by this just well, it's really a damning indictment of a collective failure to keep children safe. Let's not forget major tech companies have the capability, but have chosen not to implement device level controls. to implement device level controls. It's simply unforgivable as far as I'm concerned, that they can innovate quickly on new products, yet so slowly on children, safely.

Given Ofcom's sluggish implementation of the Online Safety Act, can the Secretary of State explain to me how compliance will be monitored in this, and what sanctions would be available to address non-compliance?

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Thank you. And at the risk of spending the entire duration of this paying tribute to absolutely everybody, I would really like to everybody, I would really like to thank her and her committee for the work that they've done on this issue and that she's done in particular. And to say that I agree particular. And to say that I agree with her about the damning indictment of a country that does not step up to keep its children not step up to keep its children safe.

I hope she's reassured by what she's heard today. In terms of what she's heard today. In terms of the specific question that she asks about how this will be enforced, I have heard the concerns loud and clear from across this House about the enforcement of the Online Safety Act. My hon. Friend the Member for Leicester West, before she left office, appointed a new chair of Ofcom and specifically tasked Ofcom with stepping up their enforcement work. And I. I've picked up the baton on that and continue it.

In terms of this particular issue, we're looking particularly at the making and selling of devices here in the UK that don't have this technology enabled to to prevent children from taking and sharing, sharing nude images. We're also looking at what we can do in relation to particular apps as well, especially where the highly verified age assurance does not apply to make sure that we close every loophole. I suppose the way I would describe it to the House, given that we are the first government in the world to do this, is that we're taking what is a major problem is a crisis, actually, and we're trying to come at it from every single angle in order to keep children as safe as possible.

But I look forward to working with her to

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thank. You, Madam Deputy Speaker. Can I thank the Secretary of State for thank the Secretary of State for this? A major step forward and massive intervention in this in this space. Now, the Secretary of this space. Now, the Secretary of State has rightly given the industry time to think about how they're going to approach these they're going to approach these issues. But we cannot wait forever. Time is of the essence. Our young people are being put at risk every people are being put at risk every single day.

So can she assure the House that whilst legislation is being developed, and whilst we look at the issues around this, that the government will continue to press these companies to act with the urgency and the sense of moral, moral leadership that they should

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be acting whilst this legislation is being developed. Yeah. You know, I'm thinking about this as overnight as I was about this as overnight as I was thinking about how to to address the House on this issue. During the the House on this issue. During the financial crisis, there was a live debate about the moral and social responsibilities that companies responsibilities that companies have to citizens and to, to one have to citizens and to, to one another and to all of us.

I think we've sort of slightly lost that, that part of our public debate and actually working with some of these companies, I've been really struck by how seriously they do take those obligations. I want us to bring back that sense that we are all in this together, that we do all have a responsibility to keep children safe. And when it comes to some of the most innovative, fast moving and successful companies in the world, it cannot be beyond our collective wit to do this more quickly.

Frankly, I don't think we should be in a position where a Secretary of State is standing at the despatch box, announcing that we have to legislate in order to uphold our responsibilities to our own children. But like I said, if

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we have to, then of course we will. Can I just remind members that. We've got the Health Bill after

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We've got the Health Bill after this statement and the ten minute rule bill? So I will be aiming to finish this statement around 4:30.

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finish this statement around 4:30. So, Jeremy Wright. Thank you very much, Madam Deputy Speaker, can I welcome the intent that the Secretary of State intent that the Secretary of State has set out this afternoon and the urgency with which she will require the relevant companies to act? I the relevant companies to act? I think she knows. I sympathise with the complexity of this legislative area and the challenge the government faces. But she may know, too, that my ongoing concern has been the compatibility of the individual measures the government may take with the ongoing responsibilities of these companies under the Online Safety Act.

I wonder, would she be prepared to meet me to discuss that in a little more detail? more detail?
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Andrew Lewin Portrait Andrew Lewin MP (Welwyn Hatfield, Labour)
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Peter Tahir Ali. Children on a daily basis are being exposed to horrific, violent content online, and Ofcom's own research shows that almost a quarter of 11 to 17 year olds have seen violent content in just four weeks. Nearly three quarters have seen harmful content of some kind. The number has barely moved since the Act's child safety duties has been in force. Much of it is even not sought out. It's served by algorithms as children's scroll.

We know the pattern cruelty to animals first, then violence against people desensitising a generation and for some, opening a path to real violence and criminality. So my question is to enforce all this and the app and device level and the primary legislation is welcome, but we need to give the tools to Ofcom to deal with this as it becomes a issue immediately.

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I he's he's right to say that. I would also say to him, as someone would also say to him, as someone who shares that concern about the increase in exposure to violent content for very young children, we content for very young children, we are also looking at the issue of chat bots and strengthening the law chat bots and strengthening the law in relation to chat bots, to make sure that we better protect

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children from all of these different forms of exposure. Vikki Slade and Deputy Speaker and I welcome these actions on child online safety and the minister's comments that there's a role for government in shaping technology and not being neutral on online harm. She may have seen in the last 24 hours some very disturbing posts on meta and X, in which the identities of brave RNLI rescuers have been revealed. And in response, charities like the RNR are now having to ask people to take real action on their personal safety and their privacy.

So what more can the government do to hold tech companies to account and take down posts that put children and adults safe, safety at risk through doxing?
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Lisa Nandy Portrait Rt Hon Lisa Nandy MP, The Secretary of State for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport (Wigan, Labour)
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I have had an initial discussion with some of the tech companies about this, and she will know as well that, as well as the horrific incidents that she mentioned, there has been a campaign by the trade union Usdaw around shop workers and the way in which they've been targeted as well. It is something that the government is concerned about. I'm personally concerned about, and I look forward to working with her to see what more we can do.

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Chris K. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Can I place in record my heart breaking appreciation of the dignified leadership? The parents and family of my constituent, Murray Dowey, of my constituent, Murray Dowey, have shown on this issue? Could she say more about what the on going conversations she will have with conversations she will have with tech companies? While the primary legislative clock is ticking to ensure that they know that, we ensure that they know that, we expect them to tackle this issue with the speed of innovation, they show in bringing new products to

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market where profit, not safety, is the goal. Can I thank him and also pay tribute to his constituents and tribute to his constituents and thank him for being such an outstanding advocate for them? He will have heard what I said about ongoing discussions with tech companies. We ought to be moving companies. We ought to be moving quickly on this. It ought not to take the need for primary legislation, but given the lack of
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Munira Wilson Portrait Munira Wilson MP (Twickenham, Liberal Democrat)
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legislation, but given the lack of progress, I think it's only right that the government steps up. We do, however, want to see progress more quickly than that, and I think many of the tech companies will have heard the strength of feeling

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across the whole House about their own responsibilities in this area. Sir Ashley Fox.

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Sir Ashley Fox. Madam Deputy Speaker. Children are facing unacceptable levels of sexual harm online and levels of sexual harm online and they need protecting. So when the government does the right thing, I will say so, albeit that it's taken will say so, albeit that it's taken them rather a long time to get to the right place. Now, many children use older phones handed down by family members. So how will the Secretary of State ensure that children using devices with older operating systems are fully protected?

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We. We have been discussing this as a department, and it's something that officials are currently that officials are currently exploring. I'm very familiar with that. I think most many children that. I think most many children will be using older devices. We think there may be some solutions to this, but I would. I'm very keen to this, but I would. I'm very keen to work with colleagues across the whole House to be able to address some of these these issues. I do some of these these issues.

I do want to say as well that although we won't hesitate to take the action that we need to take an action where it is needed. As I said to the hon. Member, the chair of the Select Committee, we are trying to come at this from lots of different angles to make sure that we close loopholes one by one and as many as we can at the same time. And part of that is about the action that we're taking, not just on the taking of nude images, which is, as my hon.

Friend said, the most central part, but also on the sharing of nude images. So the even if your child has an older device, the protections that we're bringing in around the sharing of nude

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images will take effect immediately. Alex McIntyre thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker and as a parent, I can understand the anxiety that Gloucester parents have about keeping their children safe online. keeping their children safe online. So can I thank Secretary of State for her announcement today? Given the financial resources these tech the financial resources these tech companies have and the innovative, brilliant minds they have working for them, will she reassure the House that she won't accept any House that she won't accept any argument that's too expensive? It's too difficult to stop children from being able to take nude images and send them to people.
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Lisa Nandy Portrait Rt Hon Lisa Nandy MP, The Secretary of State for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport (Wigan, Labour)
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Yeah. You know, there is no excuse, frankly. And can I also say to him that he mentions the anxiety that that he mentions the anxiety that many families feel? I think I've worked with the outstanding organisation that is the NSPCC and organisation that is the NSPCC and Childline for many, many years now. As my hon. Friend, we used to work together many years ago and I think there is something about this particular form of abuse that is happening in in parents own homes.

It's been happening in families homes. It's often happening in children's bedrooms while the parents are in the house but is not known to them. And I think there is something particularly frightening about that for many parents. I know, you know, I speak for myself when I say that. I find that a particularly disturbing thing. And having worked now with the bereaved families for, for just a few weeks, been very struck by how hard they found that element of this to come to terms with that.

They didn't know that this was happening, even though it was at times it was happening under their own roofs. And I do I do once again, just want to pay tribute to all of those families who have who have campaigned so long and hard to make this happen and give them my commitment that will work with them and not hesitate to continue to innovate and to take the steps that

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we need as technology develops. Kirsty Blackman I first raised the issue of self-generated images the issue of self-generated images more than four years ago in Parliament. I have asked almost Parliament. I have asked almost every single CMS team about the issue of live streaming. I'm really happy to hear the Secretary of State take action. I'm really pleased that action is being taken. I am also really pleased about the belt and braces approach approach belt and braces approach approach that's coming in, even though we are going to have a social media ban, even though there's going to be device level protections, I would really appreciate seeing any children's account banned from live streaming, whether that involves nude images or not, because so much of that can be held over children in terms of blackmail or abuse.

So anything that the Secretary of State can do to reassure me that that action will be taken, as well

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as the other actions that are moving ahead. Can I thank you for that and for being such a long standing campaigner on this issue. And I'm campaigner on this issue. And I'm sorry that it's it's taken, you know, many Secretaries of State know, many Secretaries of State before we were able to announce this. But I am really committed to looking at that issue seriously. I will go away after this statement, will go away after this statement, ask my officials to come back to me on it, and then I will reach out to her so we can have a proper conversation about it.



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Some colleagues. Thank you. Madam Deputy Speaker, and I really welcome the Secretary of really welcome the Secretary of State's statement. Today. We have a massive crisis of digitally enabled child sexual exploitation in the UK. As an illustration, there is a global industry for live streamed abuse material from the Philippines. The UK is the second largest global consumer, second only to the US, a consumer, second only to the US, a much larger country. The abuse extends beyond our borders.

It extends to adults as well as children on adult devices, and it extends to interfaces as well as content. We will need a broader approach. She is right to identify that technology has disrupted society before, and in those cases we've seen massive expansion harm and then regulation and then move to product safety. I've been

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working with experts and innovators on how product safety approach might work. Will she meet with me to discuss that? Very happy to to, to meet with

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Very happy to to, to meet with the hon. Gentleman. And he mentions the hon. Gentleman. And he mentions that the, the we've talked a lot about the tech companies in relation to this. And it's right that we do because there are that we do because there are obligations that need to be met. But there are also obviously, you know, in terms of traditional law enforcement, there are individuals enforcement, there are individuals who are causing harm to children. We need to make sure that we don't let them off the hook.

And the Home Secretary has been incredibly

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supportive of working hand in glove to make sure that we we deal with this from every angle. So Julian Lewis.

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So Julian Lewis. I also welcome the statement, and I'd be grateful if she could and I'd be grateful if she could share with the House a little bit about how the highly efficient age about how the highly efficient age assurance system actually works. In particular, can I confess to the particular, can I confess to the fact that over 60 years ago, my parents, recognising that my sister and I were rather precocious readers, lent us their tickets to the the the the the library, the senior library, rather than the junior library where we were confined.

What would there be to prevent a parent choosing to allow a child to use their phone under their identity? Would there be a

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penalty for doing that? Not envisaging imposing

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Not envisaging imposing penalties on on parents? But I have to say to him that he is right to say that any system that we bring in or introduce, we we are already in or introduce, we we are already anticipating that there will be people who will find ways to get around those safeguards that we put around those safeguards that we put in place. That is one of the lessons that we've learned from the pioneering approach that's been taken in Australia.

And when I said to the House, we intend to move more quickly and more decisively. It's precisely for those reasons we will have to keep revisiting the safeguards that we've got around children in this space in order to make sure that we close loopholes. And when he talks about highly effective age assurance, I mean, already companies are rolling this out. They're rolling it out through iOS 26. It requires you to to have a form of ID in order to prove your age.

So at the moment, as all parents will know on most of the, most of the apps and sites that children are on, just require you to either tick a box to say that you're over the age of 18, or require you to put in a birth date. They don't require you to show a form of ID, whether it's a credit card or some other form of ID. The new systems are requiring that. And one of the lessons that we've learned from looking at what happened in Australia is that unless you do that, most children will find a way around Andrew Lewin.
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Emily Darlington Portrait Emily Darlington MP (Milton Keynes Central, Labour)
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Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. Can I commend my right hon. Friend on her statement today, but also commend her personal decision to leave Elon Musk's X. I left the platform over a year ago because I didn't want to have any association with a platform where the founder consistently has called for civil war in our country and amplifies extremist content. So can I ask my right hon. Friend, if she sits around the Cabinet table, that she makes the case to her colleagues, that there are many ways that we can reach our constituents by

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social media, but we don't have to play by Elon Musk's rules. Can I thank you for that? I mean, I, I think this is a personal I, I think this is a personal decision. I think all all members of the House should be free to decide how they communicate and decide how they communicate and where they communicate. But for my own part, I didn't want to encourage more people to a site

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encourage more people to a site that I think has become more of a force for harm than for good. Munira Wilson very much. Madam

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Munira Wilson very much. Madam Deputy Speaker, could I welcome the Secretary, the Secretary of State's announcements today? And as she alluded to, she and I have worked on children's issues together for many years, so I know how committed she is. So can I just press a little further on AI companions, if I may? We know that they can expose children to inappropriate sexual content, even where safeguards are in place. And whilst the government has previously announced earlier this year a ban on sexualised AI chatbots for under 18 seconds, it remains unclear how these will be defined and how any such ban will be enforced.

So can she provide any clarity on that work and whether the legislation she's announcing today might be broadened to include

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that issue? Yes. This is an issue that is very

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This is an issue that is very much live in front of my mind, and I've been working over the last few months with campaigners and with months with campaigners and with members in this House and in the other place, to make sure that we get this right. I think when it get this right. I think when it comes to some of the protections that previously they'd asked for, particularly around creating offences to create AI companions and chatbots that fulfil particular functions, I think recent developments have shown that that approach may have its limitations.

She'll be aware of the recent case where an AI system was able to escape its own sandbox, and to the parameters that had been set for it and cause caused damage. So we are looking at strengthening our approach in this area because at the moment there is a great big gap where there is no liability for what the outcome from those AI systems are. And we need to we need we need to resolve that quite urgently.

I think that is a a major gap in the child safety protection gap in the child safety protection system that we have. It's not straightforward to solve, but it is something that we're determined to get on the front foot about. And, get on the front foot about. And, you know, as I've said to other members of the House, but always with the hon. Lady, given our history, very happy to talk about history, very happy to talk about it with her further.
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Lisa Nandy Portrait Rt Hon Lisa Nandy MP, The Secretary of State for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport (Wigan, Labour)
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Emily Darlington thank you, Madam Deputy.

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And I she has I'd like to pay. Tribute to the Ministers before her that that have laid some of the her that that have laid some of the tough language and now the tough legislation that we're going to bring in. This could be done bring in. This could be done tomorrow. All it requires is an update to the iOS and the Android update to the iOS and the Android operating systems. That software exists. So will she join me in calling for these companies to turn calling for these companies to turn it on in the next update and make that tomorrow? And will she promise every child and parent in this country that if they do not do that very quickly, and in fact, even if they do, we will introduce

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legislation within the year? OK. Well, we're moving. As fast as possible, and I give her my word that we won't unduly delay. She'll have heard the debates that I've just had with debates that I've just had with some hon. Members around some of the complexities of this. But complexity cannot be an excuse for complexity cannot be an excuse for inaction when children are being harmed now. So I give her my word that we will move as fast as is humanly possible in order to resolve this.

But can I also support what she has just said about the obligations on technology companies? There is far more that could be done right now, and we would like to see them do it. Carla Lockhart Deputy. Speaker Child.
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Alex Sobel Portrait Alex Sobel MP (Leeds Central and Headingley, Labour )
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monitoring and control powers and for connected purposes. I'm grateful to have the opportunity to introduce this bill alongside respected colleagues representing parties from across the House. I would also like to thank control AI for their support on this bill this summer, AI systems developed by open AI executed the first autonomous cyber attack on a real company. The AI systems are being tested, and during this, they escaped the testing environment, which should have been secure and reached the open internet.

From there, the AI systems conducted a cyber attack on the AI company, hugging face to steal the information that would help it cheat on the test that open AI had set it to. Put simply, the AI systems went rogue and launched an unprecedented attack just to cheat on a test. Meanwhile, our own AI Security Institute has had AI systems. It was testing engaged in sustained, potentially harmful activity directed at real people and organisations, including attempts at social engineering to treat humans into accepting malicious code.

It's important to understand why this happens. The general purpose AI systems used today are not coded line by line, like traditional software, using vast amounts of data and compute, they are grown, not built. This results in systems which nobody fully understands or can reliably predict. In other words, no engineer programmed the rogue. Deceptive behaviours are described and no engineer can simply patch them out. This is the least powerful or autonomous AI systems will ever be. Companies are spending billions to make superintelligent AI a reality.

The chief executives of top AI companies themselves put the chance. It ends all human life between 10 and 25%. In the words of renowned British computer scientist Professor Stuart Russell of Berkeley, for governments to allow private entities to essentially play Russian roulette with every human being on earth is, in my view, a total dereliction of duty. Despite these risks, top AI companies continue a reckless race towards superintelligent AI, AI that can fully replace an outmatched humans at any task.

This is the reason why experts like Geoffrey Hinton, Yoshua Bengio and other notable figures signed a statement saying that mitigating execution risk from AI should be a global priority. The main vector of this risk is superintelligent AI because no company, no government, no individual knows how to keep superintelligent AI under human control. My honourable colleagues may remember that I proposed the Kill Switch amendment to the Cybersecurity and Resilience Bill to protect our critical national infrastructure. A metaphorical big red button. The government can press the cut off for catastrophic emergency caused by AI.

This is a common sense proposal, one that is being considered by US lawmakers. And I'm pleased that the other place is taking this proposal forward in autumn. There is a power the government should already have, but even kill switches will not be enough. If the development of superintelligent AI continues. Let me be very clear AI is the crucial technology of the 21st century, promising vast benefits for science, medicine and the UK's prosperity. But superintelligent AI is different. It would not be a tool we can leverage, but an entity in its own right capable of improving itself, replicating itself and resisting attempts to shut it down.

It would be for so uncontrollable that if developed within the UK's borders, it would put our security in jeopardy. It would amount to a rogue power stationed inside our data centres, under no one's command capable of seizing control of our critical infrastructure and running sophisticated influence operations. Colleagues, we need to take back control for the UK to be truly sovereign. We cannot allow a threat to a national security like superintelligent AI to be developed. My bill is therefore not a verdict on AI as a whole.

It is a targeted bill that addresses a problem of unmatched severity, a bill that strength and security of our country as a whole. It does so by specifically targeting the systems where the greatest risks are concentrated superintelligent AI systems by prohibited development strikes a balance to address the grave security risks posed by superintelligent AI development, while not undermining the UK's AI ambitions, especially those relating to economic prosperity. Instead, my Bill is acutely focussed on mitigating the risks that superintelligent AI presents, rather than betting on technical definitions that the technology will outgrow.

It defines superintelligent AI, but what it could do just as the Chemical Weapons Act defines toxic chemicals by the effect it has on living organisms, rather than its technical characteristics. My bill defines superintelligence by outcome, an AI system which can cause serious damage to security. United Kingdom because its capabilities to neutralise, displace, circumvent, subvert or render ineffective, relevant human authorities in the exercise of their functions. The development of the most advanced AI systems happens on a spectrum, so it matters where we draw the line.

That line must be able to recognise the capabilities of superintelligent AI. The clearest example of such a capability is recursive self-improvement, the full automation of AI development. With no humans in the loop. This is the point where we lose control. As development towards superintelligent AI proceed too fast for humans to intervene and remain in control. My bills and powers of government to monitor and, where necessary, restrict precursors. Superintelligent AI a challenge we cannot DLUHC, however, is if anyone builds superintelligent AI wherever they build it, we are all in danger.

Some talk of a race to develop superintelligent AI as if there could be a human winner. The only winner of this race would be superintelligent AI itself, and we'd all be at its mercy. When a machine can outsmart our best engineers and resist, shut down national borders offer no protection. This is why domestic legislation protects from the risk of superintelligent development home, but cannot by itself address the risks posed by superintelligent programs abroad. A global program necessitates a global solution, which is why my bill recommends the government to work with other countries to secure an international agreement prohibiting superintelligence.

Why should Britain lead this effort? Because we already have. AI's foundational theoretical groundwork was laid by Alan Turing at Cambridge, Bletchley Park and Manchester. Google DeepMind was founded in London, but most importantly, Britain hosted the first global AI safety summit, Bletchley Park, which brought the US and China to the table to shape the future of AI. Britain established the world's first AI security institute, building crucial expertise within government. With AI policy now at the Cabinet table, Britain has an opportunity and argue a responsibility to leverage its state capacity and lead the next stage of international AI governance, especially when we have the next presidency of the G20.

This bill recognises that responsibility. With this bill, the UK becomes the first G7 country in which legislation introduced to address the national security and extinction risk from superintelligent AI, but prohibiting its development. It is a watershed moment that lays the foundation for the UK to champion and work with us on a lean international agreement, a trust but verify regime that doesn't need to wait on the slow machinery of traditional institutions. Key choke points in the AI supply chain would provide governments the ability to monitor and control the development.

Superintelligent AI, the most advanced AI systems, depend on state of the art chips. These features make the supply chain inherently controllable, an international agreement eminently enforceable through, for example, the programming of the chips. What is missing is not the technical ability to implement such a treaty, but rather a coalition of countries ready to tackle this national and global security threat. Britain can lead the way. I am proud to champion this bill, but we are not alone in this effort.

In June this year, the United States government suspended access to Anthropic's Mithos model on national security grounds. If the Trump administration, which is perceived as historically against AI regulation, can contemplate drawing a line on models that are too powerful and dangerous, then it would be strange to not ask what our own response should be. This is especially true given our legacy of being a first mover on AI security. With Bletchley Park and the world's first AI security Institute, a growing worldwide coalition of the willing is calling for decisive

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action and we should kick start this effort at home. The clock is ticking. Thank you. Hey.

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Hey. The question is that the hon. Member have leave to bring in the bill. I call Sir Bernard Jenkin.

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bill. I call Sir Bernard Jenkin. Thank you, Madam Speaker. And I'm as keen as anybody to get on with discussing the health bill. But this topic is too serious an opportunity to miss, given that he's raised such important issues, he's raised such important issues, and I really commend his speech and commend his initiative. And everybody should read it. All I want to say is kind of unilateral disarmament on AI is not going to
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Bernard Jenkin Portrait Sir Bernard Jenkin MP (Harwich and North Essex, Conservative)
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solve the national or the international problem. China, international problem. China, Russia, North Korea, Iran. These are not respecters of international treaties or international laws. Even if they were to sign such treaties or international laws. And we don't want to disable our own we don't want to disable our own industry. The jury is out on whether AI is an extinction threatening phenomenon, but I really do commend him for raising this topic. I hope he'll forgive me for opposing his bill, because I want this debate to continue.



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But the question is that the hon. Member have leave to bring in the bill, as many as are of that opinion, say I, of the contrary. No, no. On the voices. The ayes have it, no. On the voices. The ayes have it, the ayes have it. Who will prepare and bring in the bill?

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Thank you. To bring the bill myself. Jess Asato John McDonnell Afzal Khan doctor Allison Gardner Afzal Khan doctor Allison Gardner Bambos Charalambous Sir Desmond Swayne Charlie Maynard Manuela Perteghella Ben Lake Yasmin Qureshi and Wera Hobhouse. Thank Thank you. Thank you. Artificial

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Superintelligence Bill. Second Reading. What day?

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13th of November.

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13th of November. 13th of November. I call the Minister to move the Ways and Means motion in respect of the Health motion in respect of the Health Bill Minister to move. The question is, as on the Order Paper, the question is as on the Order Paper, as many as are of that opinion say I of the contrary, no. I think the ayes have it. The ayes have it. The clerk will now proceed to read the orders of the day.
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16:47
Karin Smyth Portrait Karin Smyth MP, Minister of State (Department of Health and Social Care) (Bristol South, Labour)
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Thank you. >> I know many hon. Members want to talk about the provisions in this bill on many important issues, so I will speak briefly about two government amendments relating to medical device licensing and information sharing. Our first address, New clause 94, regarding medical devices, licensing and consequential amendments, new clause 99 to 101 regarding medical devices disclosure. These amendments are about ensuring that Great Britain's medical devices regulatory framework remains fit for the future. As we know, medical technology is evolving rapidly, particularly in areas such as software and artificial intelligence.

While our current framework was designed for very different technological landscape, this set of amendments establish the statutory foundation for future medical device licensing regime applying to Great Britain only EU medical devices legislation will continue to apply in Northern Ireland. Such a regime would require medical devices to be licensed in certain persons operating within the supply chain to hold a licence, and by placing the detail in the in the regulations. The amendment allows us to work with patients, healthcare professionals and medical device sector to create a regulatory framework that protects patients, support innovation and

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strengthens the UK's life sciences sector. Framework and the damage done to

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Framework and the damage done to Inter UK trade. A section 45 B of Inter UK trade. A section 45 B of the Internal Market Act was passed. It was said to promise that there would be no further export would be no further export procedures which could impact adversely upon trade from Northern adversely upon trade from Northern Ireland to Great Britain. And yet, within this new clause 94, we have such constraints in the imposition of a licensing program whereby you can only export or it shouldn't even be called export, its internal market, whereby if you're bringing a medical device from Northern Ireland to Great Britain, you need a licence by the recipient.

How is that compatible with section 45 B of the Internal Market Act.

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Intervention, as he knows, and we discussed, I remember many long hours in this place discussing hours in this place discussing these arrangements with regard to our leaving the European Union, that the different regulations as a that the different regulations as a result of Brexit between Great Britain and Northern Ireland, as is currently the case, and due to the Windsor framework that results in Northern Ireland following the EU device regulations. This has device regulations. This has obviously been discussed with the Northern Ireland and Windsor Framework Task Force and the Cabinet Office, and we are content that that the provisions are are right given the frameworks application, and I know and understand the point that the hon.

Gentleman makes, and I'm sure he will pursue that with the government in other areas. I will now move to new clause 95 and 98. These amendments update and clarify the Secretary of State's information sharing powers for medicines and medical devices. They provide a clearer legal framework for the MHRA to share information with the UK health systems organisations and trusted international partners. The current legislative framework does not always provide the MHRA with the powers or clarity it needs to share information quickly and effectively, and this creates barriers to collaboration, including with the NHS, and these amendments will address these challenges, providing a clear statutory basis for information sharing.

There is currently no explicit statutory domestic information sharing power for medicines, whereas there is for medical devices. And these amendments bring information sharing powers about medicines in line with that of medical devices and updates. The list of statutory purposes which the MHRA may share information. Importantly, these reforms do not weaken existing safeguards. Patient information will not be shared internationally without consent and domestic protections under the Data Protection Act 2018 and UK GDPR remain unchanged. And with that, Madam Deputy Speaker, these amendments will act in the interests of patients, and I

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commend them to the House. Mark Pritchard finished. I think

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Mark Pritchard finished. I think the Minister has finished her

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remarks. I'm sorry. Medical devices, regulation,

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Medical devices, regulation, Great Britain. The question is that New clause 94 be read a second time, Doctor

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Caroline Johnson. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker, and as I as routine right now, I
16:51
Caroline Johnson Portrait Dr Caroline Johnson MP (Sleaford and North Hykeham, Conservative)
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declare an interest as an NHS consultant paediatrician, a member of the British Medical Association and a member of the Royal College of Paediatrics and Child Health. I noticed yesterday the government voted not to introduce a backstop voted not to introduce a backstop to decide on the Hughes report. I submitted a written question that also had a deadline of last night to ask whether they were going to when they're going to respond, and they haven't answered that either. Taking your time about something is Taking your time about something is one thing, but for the government to completely ignore victims, refusing to give an answer, refusing to give a backstop or a deadline is frankly shameful.

Madam Deputy Speaker patient safety is really important, and one key element to improve it is striking a good balance between accountability and blame. If you don't hold people accountable for their actions, they may not be as careful. But if people feel their superiors are looking to to find fault, they will be defensive and they may cover things up. That makes it hard to get to the root cause and stop mistakes happening again. Madam Deputy Speaker HSSIB was set up with this problem in mind.

Like the Air Accident Investigation Branch, it has a safe place. This means people are not held legally responsible for what they reveal to that team. They can get to the bottom of why things are going wrong and find system errors. Madam Deputy Speaker people come forward because they know and trust that each step is independent. But this Labour government want to change that. The health Bill will abolish each SIB and transfer all its functions to the Care Quality Commission, the body responsible for regulating health and social care.

This is the same CQC that, according to Ministers, is not fit for purpose. So why? Ministers cite a review by doctor Penny Dash, which said that the patient safety landscape was cluttered and fragmented. But too many different organisations are producing too many recommendations. But that report was narrow in scope, and the clutter is not caused by the hscb. In recent years, 30 public inquiries produced 1400 recommendations but have produced just 56. The government has suggested moving him into the CQC can improve the quality of care and safety, but it's not clear how people come forward to say precisely because it's a safe space and this government are moving the confidence in that safe space.

For the new setup to work, frontline workers would need to believe the new unit in the CQC is independent, despite the law making clear that it's not. The government's impact assessment says that the National Quality Board will provide clear direction to the new investigation unit, but the National Quality Board is tied to the NHS. So how does that square with the new unit saying independent? The impact assessment also says that the vast majority of investigations are expected to be directed by the Health Secretary.

How can we be sure that the new unit will have the power and resources to look at things that might be politically difficult for the government? How will the people in charge of the CQC balance the responsibility of investigating, with the responsibility of maintaining that

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safe space? I will. On the question of how the

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On the question of how the leadership of CQC becomes conflicted, can she reflect on the conflicted, can she reflect on the fact that the then Patient Safety Minister in the adjournment debate that I held in July, made it clear that the person responsible for deciding what safe space information might be released would be the chief executive of CQC. So if the chief executive of CQC is to see all this information, how is he or she not to be able to use that or be tempted to use that when they're inspecting hospitals for the purposes of CQC, isn't then the safe space hopelessly conflicted and therefore would lose public

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confidence? Absolutely. He's he's obviously read my my speech. And indeed, what read my my speech. And indeed, what would happen if the new unit identified the CQC itself as the problem? Ministers have not provided good answers to these questions. And to be honest, Madam Deputy Speaker, I think they can't Deputy Speaker, I think they can't because the government cannot have its cake and eat it. Either he remains independent or it's folded remains independent or it's folded into the CQC and loses its independence.

It's either decluttering the landscape by removing an organisation or simply hiding in it. Inside another investigation, another organisation to the detriment of both. We have tabled amendment one to protect H. SIB and I urge the government to

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support it in the interests of patient safety. I will give way. I thank my hon. Friend for

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I thank my hon. Friend for giving way, and she's making a really important point about EHCP. really important point about EHCP. We have heard time and again that members of staff on the front line really value the safety that he provides to them and the confidence they have in reporting. Given that we have stood in this chamber and we have stood in this chamber and heard some harrowing stories on maternity services around the country, does she not think that it's really important that we listen to the staff and not just one individual who has a different

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point of view? My hon. Friend, as always, is

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My hon. Friend, as always, is absolutely right, and indeed, he has produced a recent report, which I think the government would be I think the government would be beneficial to listen to. They in the House will be aware. Advice and guidance is a service for GPS that guidance is a service for GPS that provide specialist advice. Sometimes that avoids referrals. But Ministers have made it mandatory to ask advice before certain types of referrals, and set a name for 1 in 4 referrals to be diverted back.

The government said it wasn't rationing care, it wasn't meddling with waiting lists. There was nothing to see here that the opposition was spreading misinformation. But Madam Deputy Speaker H SIB have published an interim report linking this process to delays to patient care, including cancer diagnoses. So New

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clause 141 asked the government to suspend the new process until it's properly considered. It would. The hon. Member.

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It would. The hon. Member. I will. I'm very. Grateful for her to give for giving way. She may be aware. The giving way. She may be aware. The Health Select Committee has got a pre-appointment hearing with the pre-appointment hearing with the incoming chair of the CQC tomorrow morning. One of the questions I'd like to ask them hinges on the like to ask them hinges on the answer to this, that I would have loved the Minister to give us an update on the previous.

Secretary of State had said H. SIB will not be merged with the CQC until the CQC is ready, but never. We have never had a list from the government as to exactly what metrics they are going to use to decide when that happens, and that will then have a bearing on what kinds of questions we're going to be asking, and probing the chair and the CEO. What does the government mean specifically by

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ready? Does she not see that as a problem? Yeah. I absolutely do. I think the

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I absolutely do. I think the government the government has said the CQC is not fit for purpose, and yet it's now asking it to do additional things it didn't do additional things it didn't do before, including H, but also including event management, health care, which the hon. Lady will be aware of. And so I think it's aware of. And so I think it's absolutely right that the government pause and think this one through once again, Madam Speaker, moving on to one of our other amendments about puberty blockers.

One of the first rules of medicines is premium, non-recurring. First, do no harm. And yet here we have a Labour government sponsoring a £10.6 million trial to put 226 physically healthy children as young as 11 on puberty blocking drugs. Now, that was said to make the former Secretary of State uneasy. Why was he uneasy? Perhaps because they're powerful drugs that could potentially cause serious long term harm, perhaps because most children get better by themselves, perhaps because we can't reliably identify which children will persist with a trans identity and which will not.

Perhaps because the huge increase in girls experiencing gender dysphoria has not been adequately explained. Perhaps because the Tavistock data has not been reviewed in the data linkage study as yet. There are many reasons for concerns, but I'm aware that we're short of time. Madam Speaker, it is difficult for a clinician to tell which children symptoms will self-resolve and which will not. As a result, we risk putting a large number of children on puberty blockers to assess the effects on. As the former health secretary put it, a very small subset of a very small group.

This means the results of the investigation may be unreliable, and it could cause unnecessary harm to children. And so why is the government not ensuring the data linkage study is at very least done? First, the Minister will note that there was a vote on this trial at the end of the opposition debate in the summer, where a large number of her party abstained and three voted against. There were also votes against from many other parties. As a doctor. Madam Deputy Speaker, I appreciate that voting on a clinical trial is unusual.

But let's be clear this is the Labour government's trial. It is taxpayers money that is being spent, and it is young British children that we're talking about. So if the government wants to run this trial and pay for it, why not bring it before the House so parliamentarians can decide whether it is the right thing to do? Madam Deputy Speaker, we have a new Prime Minister and a new Secretary of State. The country need to know if they are content to pay for a trial of powerful drugs on an unnecessarily large group of children, a majority of whom have self-limiting, temporary feelings of distress.

Madam Deputy Speaker, we also have an amendment regarding single sex spaces. When the Supreme Court ruled on the 16th of April 2025 that the legal definition of a woman refers strictly to biological sex, many up and down the country will have wondered, why do we need judges to tell us that we are all, including in the eyes of the law, male or female? Of course, there are people who feel more comfortable presenting as the opposite sex, and I'm sure the whole house would agree that trans men and trans women need protection from harm and harassment in the same way as their fellow citizens.

I would hope the whole House would also agree that a woman should never be forced to get undressed in the presence of a man, and vice versa. But that is what happened to the Darlington nurses. Seven nurses were forced to share a changing room with a transgender woman, someone who was male but who presents publicly with as a woman. The Supreme Court was crystal clear. The legal definition of a woman is based on biological sex, and yet these nurses were subjected to pressure and intimidation for raising concerns about getting changed in front of someone who is

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a man. I will give you. I thank the hon. Member for

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I thank the hon. Member for giving way. And for the tone in which she is conducting this debate. I would like to ask her, however, would she feel more comfortable with a transgender man getting with a transgender man getting changed in front of those female nurses, or a transgender man with balding hair, a full beard, who is behaving like a man who is full of testosterone, presenting in a female toilet facility at night, possibly on a motorway service station.

I know I wouldn't feel safe, but it seems that she would feel safer in that situation than a trans woman getting changed or attending a toilet.

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I'm not sure why she's reached that conclusion. What I'm saying is that conclusion. What I'm saying is that this is a based on biology and people, people that are trans are requiring the same protections as requiring the same protections as people who are not. That's what I have said very clearly. But moving to back to Darlington, the Darlington nurses are particularly brave in bringing this case forward. brave in bringing this case forward. And the cost £187,000 in damages after an employment tribunal ruled in favour of the Darlington nurses.

That is a victory for dignity, a victory for women and a victory for common sense. But it is also a significant cost of public money to an NHS trust because it decided not to follow the law. That's money that could have been spent on patient care. What steps is the Minister taken to ensure this guidance is fully and properly implemented across the NHS? How will she ensure that a repeat of the Darlington nurses case does not happen again? And what guidance has been given to NHS managers on how to handle this? Madam Deputy Speaker the Minister for women Equalities, didn't help matters.

She had the responsibility to sign off the Equality and Human Rights Commission's draft Code of practice to inform businesses, services and public bodies how to implement the Supreme Court's guidance in law. But for over a year, the government failed to lift a finger to enforce a law. For over a year, businesses, hospitals, service providers and public bodies were left waiting for the government to tell them what the official guidance said. Now that it is here, we need to know how it's being implemented. How will the Minister ensure this guidance is implemented universally in our NHS? How will they make sure that single sex spaces are protected? What provision will they make for transgender individuals? What reassurance can she give to women working in our NHS that they are safe? Our new clause 43143, makes it clear that both staff and patients in the NHS must have access to single sex spaces to protect their dignity, their privacy.

I hope the Minister will be able to support this and I can't see why she would not. Madam Deputy Speaker, the government has also decided to abolish Healthwatch and reduce the number of local Healthwatch branches. Healthwatch England has been engaging with patients since 2013, with more than 150 operating in a hub and spoke model. But this is about to change. Why? One of the reasons seems to be avoid duplication. The government is clearly not keen on lots of Healthwatch is doing the same thing in different areas of the country and fill.

Some branches may operate better than others. It says it wants to bring feedback closer to decision makers, but is that a good idea? They could have chosen to improve Healthwatch. As it stands in 2324, more than 925,000 people used the Healthwatch to get advice and information. More than 300,000 shared their experience to improve services. They could have increased awareness. Further, they could have developed a clear feedback chain, but instead they've decided to abolish Healthwatch altogether. That's of grave concern. How can patients be expected to complain to the system about the system? The Prime Minister previously wrote.

People speak to Healthwatch because they are outside the system. They are impartial, they are trusted and they provide a safe space for concerns to be shared. Mr. speaker, on Madam Deputy Speaker on this. He was right and I ask the Minister to accept our amendment on this subject. Madam Deputy Speaker, we have a number of other amendments, amendments on fracture liaison services, amendments to produce on musculoskeletal health, on radiotherapy, on respiratory health, on brain injury, and on government, and the government's new on the government's new medical devices regulations.

But I appreciate the short of time. So I'll just make two short comments for me, Madam Deputy Speaker, firstly, on amendment 146, the Liberal Democrat amendment, I agree with the intent of this amendment, of course, but it requires the presence of H7 since the government seems hell bent on removing that, I don't know how the amendment would work, and a new clause 81 from backbench amendment that's been chosen by. Mr. speaker, again, this is a really important issue, and as a paediatrician, I really see the importance of of what it's what it's suggesting the regulations will need to be carefully drafted.

For those people who have a brief illness and to define the life threatening illness more clearly and to avoid duplication of work. But in principle, the it is an important amendment, and I commend

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you. Yeah. And with the exception of frontbench speeches, there will be

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frontbench speeches, there will be an immediate three minute time limit. Grahame Morris very. Much, madam.

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Deputy Speaker. I'm speaking today in support of

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I'm speaking today in support of new clauses 113 and 114, which stand in the name of my hon. Friend stand in the name of my hon. Friend the hon. Member for Westmorland and Lonsdale, which I've also added my name. But I do want to say, Madam Deputy Speaker, that at the very outset I'm in full support of this government's ambitions on cancer. I do welcome the recent investment in radiotherapy equipment, and I sincerely want the National Cancer Plan, which was published in
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Grahame Morris Portrait Grahame Morris MP (Easington, Labour)
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February, to succeed. But I'm speaking as someone who worked in the health service, someone who's a the health service, someone who's a cancer survivor and also who's took a particular interest in this issue, a particular interest in this issue, not least as vice chairman of the all party parliamentary group on radiotherapy. And it's in that capacity and as a supporter of what the government is trying to achieve, the government is trying to achieve, I respectfully ask Ministers to accept one or both of these new clauses by way of very brief explanation.

New clause 113 or amendment 13 requires the Secretary of State to publish and maintain a national framework of agreed metrics for radiotherapy, and requires the integrated care boards to report annually against these targets, and requires a report to this House once a year. New clause 114 asks very straightforwardly for a single review within six months of access to radiotherapy and radiotherapy, waiting times to be laid before parliament.

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Member give way. I'm going to give way to my hon. Friend and then thank you.

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Thank the hon. Friend for giving way. Would he agree with me that, given the ethnic inequalities that we see in cancer outcomes and cancer access to cancer treatment like radiotherapy, that that should

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also be included in the suggested review? This is a it's a huge issue that should concern everyone. I believe should concern everyone. I believe there is a cross-party consensus that this issue of health inequalities and a huge variations in access, depending on which part of the country you live. It's an absolutely valid point. What what the amendments are seeking to do is in the knowledge that the international consensus is that around half of all cancer patients have an evidence based indication for radiotherapy.

At some point, as part of their treatment. We should be aware that here in the United Kingdom in 2021, the last date for which figures were available, only 35% of patients cancer patients received it as part of their primary treatment. I'll I'll give

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way to the to my to my hon. Friend for the excellent. Point he's making. Of course, I'm going to add in that Lancashire and South Cumbria, it's only 29%. and South Cumbria, it's only 29%. Get access to radiotherapy and he will be aware, won't he, that the will be aware, won't he, that the government's target is. 85% of people diagnosed with cancer should people diagnosed with cancer should be treated within 62 days, 85% only 41% of patients who are recommended 41% of patients who are recommended radiotherapy get treated within 62 days.

He'll also know that for every four weeks delay in cancer treatment, there's a 10% less chance of survival. And so it's right, isn't it, that the government should accept new clause 114 so that we can make it mandatory that people are treated

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within those two months to give the best chance of survival. I'm grateful for that

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I'm grateful for that intervention and absolutely hit the nail on the head there. Perfectly put. And I do believe, Minister, that there is cross-party consensus that this is the way forward. I that this is the way forward. I might say a whole succession of Ministers from various parties over Ministers from various parties over the last 16 years that that I've been a member, along with my hon. Friend. We've we've presented the case to a succession of Ministers, all of whom seem to be in agreement.

But here we definitely have an opportunity to restore what was once a world class cancer service and to get us back to where the international benchmark say we should be. I would like to say that responsibility for commissioning radiotherapy, as I'm sure we're aware, was devolved to the integrated care boards. Now I can understand the logic of moving commissioning closer to the local populations. And I believe the the the move of the resolution and myself and I myself and not seeking to undo that, but what we what we wish to stress to the House is that radiotherapy is not an ordinary local service, nor should it be considered as one.

It's delivered from a very limited number of highly specialised centres dependent on capital. Equipment with long replacement cycles, relies on a small, highly skilled workforce around about 6000 in the country, all of which take years to train, and all while being reliant on physical infrastructure that can be commissioned at short notice. Patients also routinely cross integrated care board boundaries to reach these specialist centres. Many boards entirely, understandably, do not have dedicated radiotherapy expertise in-house. And indeed, in August of last year, 70% of integrated care boards had no named person responsible for ensuring sufficient radiotherapy treatment capacity at all.

I'm willing to work with Ministers in order to seek a resolution with the solutions we propose.
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Helen Morgan Portrait Helen Morgan MP (North Shropshire, Liberal Democrat)
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And I'll call Liberal Democrat spokesperson Helen Morgan. spokesperson Helen Morgan. >> Thank you very much, Madam Deputy Speaker. Yesterday I highlighted our concerns about the implications of quick, quick fix, implications of quick, quick fix, top down reorganisation for the sovereignty of the NHS and the interests of patients in a system which already spends too much time and money reacting to failure, rather than planning for success. Patient safety is already under threat. Rather than addressing these failings, this bill is at risk of a bonfire of patient safety.

Our amendments would reverse this gutting of safety mechanisms from the NHS, all of which have been painstakingly introduced after far too many scandals. Amendments eight and nine would restore Healthwatch England and local Healthwatch organisations, while new clause 14 would restore Healthwatch funding after ten years of cuts to its service. Given that Healthwatch was originally established as a response to the devastating Mid-staffordshire scandal, its abolition would be a step backwards, showing lessons haven't been learnt. An independent, patient voice is essential both to shape local services and highlight where they aren't working well and folding it into existing NHS structures risk destroying the trust that exists precisely because of its independence.

Another vital I'm not going to give way because there are many colleagues who wish to speak and there is very, very limited time, so I hope you'll forgive me. Another vital body for safeguarding and investigating patient safety is HCP, which again functions well because of the trust NHS professionals have in its independence and its objectivity. Both would be lost under the proposal to roll it into the CQC. Our amendment 12 would ensure that eight functions remain operationally independent of the CQC, so the NHS isn't left to mark its own homework.

Together, these amendments are designed so that patients are protected from another Mid-staffordshire or another Shrewsbury and Telford, or another Nottingham or another East Kent or another Morecambe Bay. Rash decision making must not be allowed to put patients at risk. We would also go further than protecting existing patient safety measures and significantly strengthen whistleblowing routes through new clauses nine and ten. These new clauses create standard mechanisms for whistleblowing by coroners and hospital boards, new powers to report wrongdoing and new requirements on managers and DHSC to whistleblow, where there are concerns about systemic medical malpractice or failure.

But keeping patients safe goes beyond just blowing the whistle. My colleague the Member for Epsom and Ewell has tabled new clause 52 to give patients a right to start cancer treatment within 62 days of referral, with a scheme to deliver this. Liberal Democrat research earlier this year found that 80% of trusts failed to meet the 62 day target, with nearly a thousand patients waiting over six months for treatment. People are suffering and dying because of these failures. It just isn't safe. The egregious patient safety failure that I will focus on today, though, is the Covid care crisis.

The latest release of monthly Covid care statistics revealed the worst summer on record for A&E waits, with well over 300,000 waits in June and July of 12 hours or more. Nearly 100,000 people were treated in hospital corridors in July after 2025, seeing the worst level of 12 hour trolley waits in A&E ever recorded. This summer's corridor care statistics show an even worsening trend. The human reality of these numbers is that patients are left to deteriorate for hours on corridors, potentially without food or water, and staff are pushed to breaking point.

One nurse described the conditions as akin to torture, with a 2025 survey from the Royal College of Physicians finding that 78% of physicians had provided care in a temporary space. The Royal College of Emergency Medicine's recent safety Care campaign reveals the huge strain of this type of care on staff, with 96% of emergency department staff surveyed reporting that they had experienced violence or aggression as a result. It's totally unacceptable. And in response to a written parliamentary question I asked in June, the Department of Health and Social Care revealed that it had not taken any assessment of the impact of A&E waiting times on excess deaths, given that the Royal College of Emergency Medicines June report estimated that well over 15,000 excess deaths occurred in 2025 in connection with long waits.

This lack of investigation by the department is devastating for patient safety. In action on corridor care is costing lives in the thousands, in the thousands every year. It is absolutely incumbent on the government to act now and act fast to put an end to this crisis. I therefore table with new clause 140, which would require the government to end NHS corridor care in hospitals within one year and to launch an independent inquiry into corridor care, including into government policy. If that is not achieved, many of the protections and organisations being abolished or weakened in this Bill were introduced following scandals during the Prime Minister's tenure as Health Secretary.

He promised lasting change into listen as well as previously opposing the removal of Healthwatch, but is now due to oversee a big backward step in patient safety. Now, I am aware, Madam Deputy Speaker, finally, that the speaker is Mr Speaker is provisionally minded to select the official opposition's new clauses one, four, two and 143 for separate decision. So I will briefly outline my concerns about those amendments. New clause 142 seeks to politicise a drug trial in a way that is unprecedented and inappropriate.

Drug trials must be protected by objective, ethical and medical safeguards, and it is vital that they are undertaken in a way which follows a rigorous and accepted, predictable scientific process which prioritises the safety of patients. Baroness Cass has outlined her concerns about the misinformation surrounding this trial in her letter to all MPs, which was sent before the summer recess, and I strongly recommend that all MPs read it. Allowing politicians to override objective, ethical and medical safeguards is a dangerous precedent to set, particularly in a world where vaccine deniers and anti-science fantasists have a clear route to getting their hands on the levers of power.

No comparison. As always, we stand firm in the belief of an evidence based approach and argue strongly against the risk of political capture, where we should be led by the science. The Liberal Democrat policy on single sex spaces requires that everyone who needs access to a single space can do so safely and feel comfortable and secure, while ensuring nobody faces discrimination on the basis of their being trans. But the opposition's new clause 143 is very poorly drafted and would create chaos and confusion within the NHS.

Applying those requirements to spaces such as pop up flu jab clinics, blood donation sessions in the community and potentially even care delivered in a private residence in a way that is clearly unworkable and would damage delivery of care, and therefore I am also unable to support it. Given the haste in tabling these amendments, the amendments to retain Healthwatch, I am disappointed that the official opposition is not using this

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opportunity to to push a vote on that critical issue instead. Yeah. Here I urge the government to accept the amendments laid in my accept the amendments laid in my name and by my Lib Dem colleagues to protect patient safety if they, unlike the opposition, are serious about building a health service about building a health service that works for staff and delivers for patients. I've enjoyed working with the Minister here in the with the Minister here in the chamber at committee and 1 to 1, and I'm sure she has the best intentions.

I hope she's listened to our genuine concerns about to our genuine concerns about patient safety during the course of the debate over the last two days, and will consider further our amendments in the other place, because if not, Liberal Democrats will continue to fight for significant improvements to patient

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safety as this bill progresses through the House of Lords. Thank you. Thank you, Madam. Deputy Speaker.

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Deputy Speaker. And can I start by saying that I welcome this bill and was pleased to be a member of the Bill to be a member of the Bill committee, and I also welcome the government's new clauses, which the government's new clauses, which the Minister has spoken to today. But I rise to speak to amendment 159, to rise to speak to amendment 159, to which I have added my name, which seeks to address a long standing legislative omission in our health service.

I would like to thank my hon. Friend, the Member for Sunderland Central, for submitting this amendment. For over a decade since the Health and Social Care Act 2012, Parliament has recognised the principle of parity of esteem between physical and mental health. Yet without statutory accountability, parity has remained an aspiration rather than a clinical reality. Now the scale of the problem is clear. NHS data shows that 1.87 million adults and over 576,000 children and young
17:21
Liz Twist Portrait Liz Twist MP (Blaydon and Consett, Labour)
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people currently hold open referrals for mental health services, while the government sets services, while the government sets clear targets to reduce physical health care waiting lists, mental health services are excluded from health services are excluded from these core constitutional ambitions, and the division has severe consequences. A survey by Rethink consequences. A survey by Rethink Mental Illness found that 83% of patients saw their mental health deteriorate while waiting for support, and nearly a third of those whose health worsened attempted suicide.

New clause 159 would require the Secretary of State to publish national waiting time standards for mental health services within 12 months of this act passing. The fact is, what is measured is addressed, so we need to give the same attention to mental health as we quite rightly do to physical health measures. These standards, covering both community and urgent care, must be developed in consultation with the Chief Medical Officer. Crucially, the clause mandates the Secretary of State to report performance against those waiting times alongside mental health expenditure to Parliament every year.

This ensures that funding reallocating this House is transparently linked to patient outcomes. If we do not measure waiting times, we cannot manage them and patients will continue to be left until they are in crisis before they receive support. It's time that we start to pay the same attention to mental health as we do to physical health, so we can really achieve parity of esteem. Now, this government set out a welcome and ambitious path to build our NHS, and achieving true parity of esteem is central to that mission.

So I urge the Minister to look closely at amendment 159 as a constructive.
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Caroline Dinenage Portrait Dame Caroline Dinenage MP (Gosport, Conservative)
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Caroline Dinenage Madam Deputy Speaker, I'm speaking today on new clause 41. In my name. We've put enormous, unquestioning trust in enormous, unquestioning trust in those who care for the body of our loved ones when we die. And yet, in this chamber, six months ago, I told the former health Minister about Elkin and Bell, the Gosport funeral directors who left 46 bodies decaying in an unrefrigerated room. One of them an elderly gentleman whose family had already paid for his cremation, left decomposing for 36 days.

I said then that the funeral sector was nothing better than a lawless wild west with no mandatory qualifications to practice, no accreditation for professionals, no licensing of businesses, no inspection of premises and no law to fall back on when things go wrong. It was only persistence and ingenuity by Hampshire Constabulary that saw Elkin and Bell brought to justice. The Minister at the time told me a decision on regulation would come in the government's full answer to the inquiry, and we are still waiting.

Madam Deputy Speaker. Since then, matters have worsened. In July, Robert Busch, the director of funeral director in Hull, was sentenced to 20 years in prison, pleading guilty to 67 charges of bodies left decomposing in squalor. 46 grieving family families reunited with the wrong ashes. But the real horror is that these will not be isolated cases under the law. As it stands today, almost anyone

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I'd like to thank my hon. Friend for her work on this area. In my neighbouring constituency. The vast majority of funeral directors operate with integrity and operate with integrity and compassion and professionalism, so that is the reason that they are also, as rectal businesses, crying

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also, as rectal businesses, crying out for robust regulation. Does she agree with me? I genuinely couldn't agree with

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I genuinely couldn't agree with her more. This is not an attack on the profession. The vast majority of funeral directors, well, they do their job with extraordinary skill, with great care and huge professional integrity. And actually, it's precisely because of the trust that grieving families place in them every single day that we cannot go on allowing a rogue minority to drag the reputation of that whole sector through the mud. Now, on a written statement on the 1st of September, the government described its intention for proposals for regulation to be forthcoming, but it set out no timetable and detailed plans were only promised in due course.

Families have already waited years and cannot be expected to wait indefinitely. My new clause 41 would require the Secretary of State within six months of this bill passing, to extend the remit of the Human Tissues Authority beyond hospital mortuaries, which it currently covers to cover funeral directors, private mortuaries, direct cremation services and any other organisation that transports or holds the bodies

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of the deceased. Giving way. Does she not agree with me, though also that Donna with me, though also that Donna Ockenden's report into what happened at Nottingham, and particularly the the harrowing particularly the the harrowing stories of the mortuary issues that adds to the case that she's making?

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adds to the case that she's making? Can I just pay tribute to my right hon. Friend and for the fantastic work he did as the as the fantastic work he did as the as the Shadow Secretary of State for health. He's absolutely right. This is why we really need the full response to this Fuller report to implement not only changes to mortuaries, but all the other amendments that it recommended. Now, this new clause 41 would place a duty on the Human Tissue Authority to establish and maintain a register of every business brought within its oversight with how that register operates, set by regulations so that for the first time, a grieving family could check before they hand over the body of their loved one, whether the business in front of them is properly overseen.

And I recognise the Member for Leeds South West and Morley has also tabled a new clause 42 for a new bespoke freestanding regulator. Both of these would fix the same issue. Either will do. The key thing is that this is a moment for government to seize, not resist. Ministers have already said in principle that they agree with what this new clause requires of them. Every trade body agrees to every family who was failed agrees to every member who signed our letter from across the House agrees.

It feels like the government agrees. So I asked the Minister today to tell the House exactly when a statutory scheme will be brought forward by the Department of Health and Social Care, and what timetable of implementation, when none of us are comfortable dwelling in our own mortality. And that's exactly why that funerals are for the living. They are for families to say goodbye to their loved ones with dignity, able to grieve without the added horror of questioning whether the body they buried, whether the ashes they scattered was actually the right one.

Robert Bush's sentencing should be the last time this House has to debate a gruesome case like this, and it won't be unless the government pushes ahead to close this regulatory black hole.
17:28
Chris Hinchliff Portrait Chris Hinchliff MP (North East Hertfordshire, Labour)
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Yeah. >> Chris Hinchliff thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I'm sure that many members across the House will be aware of the campaign in the memory of human Ann Davies, the son of my constituents, Kerry and Francis, who tragically passed away at the age of just six. The amendments I age of just six. The amendments I have tabled to this bill are designed as part of that campaign to support families at the most difficult time imaginable. Madam Deputy Speaker, our National Health Service and welfare state have changed and evolved over almost a century and should we should always keep a close watch on how faithfully they remain connected to their founding principles.

Support from the from the Cradle to the grave should not be a dusty slogan. It must be a constant aspiration. And wherever gaps or shortcomings are identified, we must address them. And it should concern us all that support for parents of seriously ill children is one such gap. When a child becomes seriously ill, the NHS mobilises around the child, quite rightly, but parents must mobilise around everything else, getting to work and hospital appointments, looking after other children, managing existing caring responsibilities and somehow keeping on top of bills, rent or mortgages that do not stop when a child becomes ill.

When all of this takes place alongside the fear that your child may die, the pressure on families is near impossible to bear. Too often our systems see a patient, a parent, an employee, a sibling or a pupil, but rarely a family. We need our NHS to see the full picture. There is a clear gap in our safety net when parents of seriously ill children are left without the coordinated financial, practical and emotional support they need. The message from those with lived experiences that in these scenarios, parents find themselves passed from pillar to post, endlessly repeating the devastating reality that they are living through, compounding their trauma, the stress and complexity this adds to the burden parents and carers already face when caring for a seriously ill child contributes to longer term health impacts for families in a way that we cannot ignore.

A linked record cohort study of more than 35,000 mothers found high incidences of depression, cardiovascular disease and death amongst mothers of children with life limiting conditions. N-c, 81, proposes a single named coordinator bringing together information on financial support, employment rights for parents and carers, and signposting to relevant charities and support as part of a written plan for the family. This would cut away repetitive bureaucracy and mean that parents are no longer left to their own devices to try and figure out a way through the challenges their families face.

In these situations. It is a simple duty, but one that could make a massive difference and one of the most difficult times imaginable in a family's life. It would ensure that they are no longer simply left to navigate an overwhelming and unfamiliar system alone. Childhood illness is traumatic enough. We

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should do everything we can to stop it. Well. Clive Jones. Thank you very much, Deputy

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Thank you very much, Deputy Speaker. I would like to speak to new clause 137. In the six months since the National Cancer Plan was published, Cancer Research UK estimates that over 168 000 people estimates that over 168 000 people were diagnosed with cancer in England. Numbers diagnosed are at a record high and projected to record high and projected to continue. Almost 1 in 2 of us in our lifetime will get cancer, and no one in this country is untouched by the disease.

I welcome the government's ambition to improve cancer outcomes in the National Cancer Plan. Alongside this amendment to the health Bill, my current private member's bill seeks to guarantee that the government makes progress towards delivering these targets and is held to account by Parliament on that. Over the past five decades, cancer survival has more than doubled because of life saving research, early detection and cutting edge treatments. But in the last decade, progress has slowed and the ten year Cancer Survival Index was better in the early 2000 than in the 2010.

So we are in danger of going backwards. The National Cancer Plan commits to meeting cancer waiting times targets by the end of this parliament, something the previous government failed to do. And I really hope that this government will manage to do it. It is also important that these targets are met alongside a full range of commitments in the plan. In 2022, the Health and Social Care Act included a requirement for the Secretary of State to include cancer outcome objectives in the annual mandate set by the Secretary of State for the NHS, for NHS England, and that those outcome objectives explicitly took priority over other cancer objectives.

I have laid down this amendment because the current health bill abolishes that mandate, including the previous statutory requirement for cancer outcome objectives to be prioritised over other cancer objectives, and the similar duty has not been replicated elsewhere in the Bill. With the removal of the statutory requirement to prioritise cancer outcomes over other cancer objectives in the health system, there is a very real concern that progress on cancer outcomes risks being deprioritised amid the competing priorities of the department, facing many external pressures.

I am therefore seeking assurances from the Minister today that despite the disruption of the ongoing merger and removal of the Cancer Outcomes Clause, progress on delivering the transformation laid out in the National Cancer Plan will be delivered and that it remains a priority for the new Prime Minister and the new Secretary of State. I and the new Secretary of State. I ask the Minister to guarantee that the capacity needed to drive forward this essential work on forward this essential work on cancer is protected.
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17:35
Kate Osborne Portrait Kate Osborne MP (Jarrow and Gateshead East, Labour)
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Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. >> Begin on a personal note, just three weeks ago, I had a second operation on my back, and I want to put on record my sincere thanks to put on record my sincere thanks to the staff who cared for me, from the clinicians who treated me, to everyone involved in my care and everyone involved in my care and recovery. Yes, too often our access to healthcare depends on your postcode. That postcode lottery is stark in a number of areas, but nowhere more so than IVF.

And as chair of the APPG on fertility, this is an issue I've raised repeatedly with Ministers and I again invite Ministers to attend our fertility roundtable tomorrow and commit to ensuring that every ICB at the very least, follows nice guidelines on access to IVF and fertility treatment. Madam Deputy Speaker, we must strengthen the role of voluntary community and social enterprise organisations in neighbourhood health planning and NHS commissioning. Voluntary organisations understand the barriers to care for hard to reach communities, and often have trusted relationships with communities that statutory services struggle to reach.

We see that particularly

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clearly in HIV and Aids provision. Voluntary organisations have been fundamental to the UK's Response for decades through

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Response for decades through prevention, testing, peer support, tackling stigma, and supporting people living with HIV. And I'm people living with HIV. And I'm extremely grateful to the National Aids trust for working with me on these causes that I had, and thank these causes that I had, and thank Ministers for their constructive engagement. Members of the Lgbt+ community must have trust in healthcare providers and community groups bridge that gap when needed. Let me turn to today's amendments and NC 142143, which would actively harm vitally needed healthcare.

142 has already been rejected at Committee stage, and we see it for what? It is just an opportunity to attack some of the most vulnerable in our society. Access to much needed healthcare has already been paused in the UK, and if access to treatment for gender dysphoria is now to be dependent upon additional research, then the pathways trial must go ahead without further delay. NC 143 again has already been rejected at Committee stage and is another attempt to vilify the amendment fails to recognise the framework already in place to ensure single sex services are provided where they meet the requirements of the Equality Act.

Neither the code nor the Supreme Court judgement mandate for the provision of single sex facilities. Providers must still consider whether the service falls within an exception within the Equality Act, whether single sex provision is proportionate, what the impact might be on trans people, and what mitigation might be necessary. Madam Deputy Speaker, I welcome the 10 Year Health Plan. We've made great strides in repairing the damage done to our NHS.
17:38
Bernard Jenkin Portrait Sir Bernard Jenkin MP (Harwich and North Essex, Conservative)
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Sir. Speaker. I would very much like to have discussed the medical devices, questions that arise in this bill presented by the Minister, and she presented by the Minister, and she made an incredibly short speech about the important matter. When it's quite clear that these provisions are part of the covert realignment, dynamic alignment with the EU. The covert rejoin agenda that's been presumed by the government, and it raises all sorts of constitutional questions, but not for today. I want to concentrate on Hitchin, and I rise to support amendments number numbers 1 to 4, which would remove the abolition of Ashford from the bill.

The government has singularly failed to make the case for removing this crucial safety investigation function, which didn't exist until recently, and now they want to scrub it out. I suspect because too many people in the health system don't like being held to account by an independent investigative body. Well, the Minister shakes her head. She's yet to give a good reason as to why this is in the bill. When we had an adjournment debate in July with the patient, the then patient safety Minister, she couldn't answer the question as to who is going to conduct independent safety investigations in the NHS after the abolition of HSSIB, she said safety investigations should be conducted by CQC, but she wouldn't actually claim that they would be independent because, as my right hon.

Friend from the frontbench demonstrated, they would not be. And if it is intended, as it seems, that safety investigations should be carried out in CQC unaffected by the transfer, why make the transfer at all? How much is this transfer going to cost? We've asked, I asked in a letter which I sent to the Minister after the debate, to give us the information about how much the transfer of all this is going to cost. Nothing's arrived. I've never had a reply to the letter since I wrote back in July.

Of course, they've changed. The Minister and the new patient safety Minister is not in the House today. I rather suspect she is more sympathetic to this argument than the Minister sitting on the front bench today. We discovered in our exchanges earlier and once again exposed how the safe space is going to be brutally compromised by the fact that it will be housed in a regulator with other ulterior motives, inevitably. But the chief executive of CQC is is wantonly conflicted in terms of looking after the safe space.

So he can't be the one that's left in charge of it, of that function. And the real point here is we're missing the opportunity to save so much money. Governments keep having public inquiries. The public inquiry in Essex might affecting my constituency. In its first year, it cost £5 million. In its second year it's costing another 5 million. The whole Budget for EHCP was only £6.3 million a year. And yet it does scores of investigations, not just one inquiry. The Ockenden inquiry cost £14 million.

And yet that is. And if we could save just a fraction of the cost of medical negligence, which is 3.6 billion a year, would pay for itself.
17:41
Jeff Smith Portrait Jeff Smith MP (Manchester Withington, Labour)
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Jeff Smith thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. Clauses five and Deputy Speaker. Clauses five and six of this bill place duties on the Secretary of State to promote patient involvement, patient choice patient involvement, patient choice and innovation. And my new clause 86 and clause 87. Apply those principles to psychedelic assisted therapy treatments involving schedule one controlled substances. I've been pleased to be a trustee of the charity Drug Science. It's. Allow me to talk to researchers looking at therapeutic treatments using what are called psychedelic groups.

And around the world, there is growing evidence about the successful treatment of PTSD, of trauma, of mental health, issues, of end of life distress, using these drugs. For some patients, these are absolutely revelatory. They change lives for the better and can do those conditions on the wider health service. But researchers tell me that the barriers that the current system put in place are really, really restricting research. The research involving these these controls, schedule one controlled substances generally requires a home Office licence, and the bureaucracy and the inertia in the system has delays, costs, administrative burden to the extent of research grants being lost.

Because of those delays, the issue has already been considered. In 2023, the Home Affairs Select Committee recommended urgently moving psychedelic drugs to schedule two to facilitate research. Later that year, the Advisory Council on Misuse of Drugs recommended that research using schedule one drugs in universities and hospitals should be exempt from the Home Office domestic licensing requirement and instead operate under schedule two controls. In 2025, the government accepted the recommendations in principle, and there's supposed to be a pilot, a proposed exemption subject to to test the operational feasibility, but it's not been happening.

The government said the policy was underway and further plans would be published in due course, but without an implementation timetable and my amendment, new clause 86 would make it happen. Other jurisdictions are ahead of us on this. The US Defence Department, Department of Veterans Affairs already funding clinical trials for military personnel and veterans. The new I'm running out of time. So new clause 87 concerns compassionate access to treatment. International research has potential as identified potential in some treatment resistant psychiatric conditions and end of life distress.

There is international precedent on this. The 2022 Canada Special Access Program has allowed clinicians to to request restricted drugs, including psilocybin and MDMA, to to treat these these conditions. And we can we can learn from those experiences. Finally, I'm grateful to the Minister for meeting with me to discuss these issues and for her agreement on the principle of enabling clinical research with these drugs and her commitment to get back to me, to outline how the government will take this further.

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Anna Sabine. I'm speaking to new clauses 116

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I'm speaking to new clauses 116 and 117 tabled in my name, Clover Carkeet from my constituency, is a delightful seven year old girl who suffered from intractable epilepsy since she was 12 weeks old. Clover seizures could only be controlled seizures could only be controlled by huge doses of steroids, leaving her very unwell until her parents secured a private prescription for secured a private prescription for medical cannabis, reducing her seizures by 95%. Medical cannabis is legal and it can be bought privately under the NHS supervision, but it's not routinely available on
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Anna Sabine Portrait Anna Sabine MP (Frome and East Somerset, Liberal Democrat)
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the NHS. As a result, families are faced with an impossible choice fund thousands of pounds a month to fund thousands of pounds a month to pay privately or watch their child suffer, while relying on the treatments available through the NHS. Why are parents being made to NHS. Why are parents being made to make this choice? Colleagues across this House, including the Member for Gower, have long campaigned on for Gower, have long campaigned on this issue and support new clause 116, which calls on the Secretary of State to assess the availability of State to assess the availability of medical cannabis on the NHS for children, and I hope the government will support this amendment today to.

On new clause 117 in June, thyroid surgery left me with vocal cord paralysis as you can, particularly here today. This has given me a real and unwelcome insight into the challenges faced by people who experience voice loss. According to The Laramie Project, around 30% of adults will experience voice loss at some point in their life. Speech and language therapists can often resolve these issues entirely, but access to therapy is determined by postcode lottery. Madam Deputy Speaker, I was fortunate to get NHS speech therapy this summer, but not everyone is.

And that's why new clause 117, backed by the Royal College of Speech and Language therapists, calls on the Secretary of State to publish a strategy for tackling waiting times and unequal access to speech and language therapy. To do this job, we all rely on our voices and I urge the

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House to support NC 117 today. Which brings us to the front

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Which brings us to the front bench contribution I call the Minister Karin Smyth.

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Minister Karin Smyth. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker, and look genuinely what people call a wide ranging and thoughtful a wide ranging and thoughtful debate. I really do want to try and address all the points that have been raised, and I think that there
17:46
Karin Smyth Portrait Karin Smyth MP, Minister of State (Department of Health and Social Care) (Bristol South, Labour)
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been raised, and I think that there is broad agreement across the House on general goals that we are seeking to achieve with this bill safer care. Better outcomes and a stronger voice for patients. Every patient deserves safe, high quality care. Every community deserves to have its voice heard, and everyone should be able to access the care they need when they need it. The question before us is really about how best to deliver those ambitions. In general, we do not believe that the current landscape works and that better outcomes are always achieved through new reporting requirements or additional layers of statutory process or more bureaucracy.

Instead, we are committed to devolving responsibility to empowering leaders in the NHS while also holding them directly account to so that the NHS is focussed on delivery and improving care. I'll begin by Deputy Speaker on Healthwatch. I think there is broader consensus, as I said, that we want to see patient voices heard strongly at every level of the healthcare system, something I think all MPs in particular feel very strongly about dealing with our constituents and hearing the patient news of voice results in better decisions and a system that's designed around them, and a system that's better able to correct things when things go wrong.

And our ambition is to ensure that insight and experience from patients, service users and communities is part of commissioning and service planning decisions, rather than being held at arm's length rather than being outsourced. And our ambition that this is done effectively everywhere. It's about strengthening the power of patients voices inside the NHS where decisions are taken, not silencing criticism of those decisions. And our approach is that integrated care boards and local authorities will be expected to engage with people in their areas, and will have a statutory duty to obtain their views.

It's a core part of their new strategic role of ICBs that includes transparency about what people have told the system, what the system has done in response, and how learning is shared across partners holding ICBs to account if they do not demonstrate it. However, Madam Deputy Speaker, we have heard the strength of feeling in this place and through committee and as the Bill moves to the other place, I can commit to working closely with colleagues across this House and in the other place to review these provisions to ensure our approach sufficiently empowers and devolves to local populations.

We want all. We want all to ensure that these deliver for patients and service users, building public trust and

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ensuring that their voice is embedded in the care they receive. Briefly. I thank the Minister for giving

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I thank the Minister for giving way. The CEO of Healthwatch North Norfolk said today that to cease the statutory functions of Healthwatch without a suitable Healthwatch without a suitable alternative in place is to risk another major failing in patient safety and scrutiny of the health system. Did the minister's remarks just now suggest the government may be reviewing the plans to scrap Healthwatch?

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Healthwatch? Well, I would not be surprised that I don't agree with the proposition. I commend the work that many people have done in their health watches, but we absolutely want to work with people in the other place and to make sure that these are the right this is the right way forward on EHCP. And again, I'm sorry we don't have more time to debate this. I do think it does require a lot more discussion. We had a good debate in committee. We've heard many discussions here today.

I have met with the member, the Member for Harwich and North Essex as well, and hear what he's saying, and I will make sure that he gets a response to his letter from the new patient patients Safety Minister ASAP. As they say now, it is an issue that we need to get absolutely right. We know from all our experience of patients and families about the importance of creating a culture in which concerns can be raised without fear, and lessons are learned effectively. The government.

We fully agree with these objectives. Our view is that patient safety, in line with the Dash review, is best served by clear lines of accountability, effective independent scrutiny and a relentless focus on learning and improvement. And that's why we're transferring his functions into the CQC to ensure that learning from investigations can readily inform improvement activity across the system. Now, we do recognise the importance of ensuring the investigation arm has the autonomy to investigate the qualifying incidents they deem appropriate, free from interference, and I can give assurance that we will work with the executive of EHCP and CQC to ensure that their operating model upholds this operational independence.

And in response to the hon. Lady, the chair of the Health Select Committee, who's not in her place, there is obviously no single metric by which to judge the suitability of the CQC. It is usual in the department's oversight of arms length bodies and independent regulators to look at things like, for example, stable leadership, IT capability, governance, operational effectiveness, something I'm sure that the Select Committee can help and work with. I am I am going to press on. There's a lot to get through.

Apologies on health inequalities. We are committed to tackling health inequalities wherever they arrive. There are strong duties on both ICBs and the Secretary of State to tackle them, and we remain firmly committed to doing so. We continue to drive forward improvement plans in the National Cancer Plan and the mental health strategy. The mental health strategy will transform mental health care into a system that responds and intervenes early, reduces waiting times for support, and ultimately supports people to participate fully in education. And in particular, I should note that the government is already making record investment in mental health, and all our subs are expected to meet the mental health investment standard over the next three years, and all are forecast to meet it for 2627.

We're also committed to delivering the National Cancer Plan. We're focussed on driving those improvements, including on diagnostic capacity, which is key to addressing waiting times and tackling variation, as we've heard today in access to best treatment. As we've heard from the hon. Member, my friend from Easington, who's commended his work in this area, and member for Blagdon and and Consett, I I'm going to just press a little bit, if I may. I would remind the House that we are doing this within the existing legal structures.

Our approach is not to add additional duties and additional layers of detail and specifically specificity in primary legislation. I do think we should avoid the temptation to create a separate statutory obligations for each condition or patient group, particularly in an age where people are living longer and very often with more than one condition, we should commit to ourselves to tackling inequalities everywhere for everyone. We've also heard, again contributions from the Liberal Democrat frontbench about corridor care. Now the government has been consistent.

We're very clear that corridor care is not an acceptable standard of care and should not be normalised. It is our intention to reduce and ultimately eradicate corridor care, and I think it is worth reminding the House that it does not occur everywhere. Some places have made huge steps to avoid it and we want to share that learning. And can I commend particularly that there are zero incidences reported in in the last reporting from Barnsley Foundation Trust. South Warwickshire Foundation Trust and the Dudley Group.

However, we must recognise that Corridor Care is one of the most visible and distressing symptoms of systemic systemic pressures across the urgent and emergency care pathway and our focus is on taking action now to tackle those underlying pressures. So we're improving patient flow, strengthening discharge arrangements and investing in urgent and emergency care services. We are providing targeted support to the systems and trusts facing the greatest challenges from corridor care, so that improvements can be delivered where they are needed most, and to make sure we can understand where these challenges are.

We've already introduced a national definition of corridor care and strengthened reporting and oversight

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arrangements on series, I will. I thank the hon. Member for giving way, and I could. I congratulate her on her birthday congratulate her on her birthday today. I may be right. Could I say that the NHS trust in northwest London recently was found to be one London recently was found to be one of the most improved in London in terms of reducing the waiting list? Does she agree that all of the changes that she is bringing in as changes that she is bringing in as part of this bill, including those discussed today, will help us to bring those waiting lists down even

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further and also address the issues with corridor care that she has outlined. Well, I thank her for her best

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Well, I thank her for her best wishes and indeed commend the work that she and many other members are doing directly with their trust to doing directly with their trust to understand the impact of the work that we are doing, to bring down those waiting lists and to improve those waiting lists and to improve access, access for patients. And absolutely, as I said, corridor care is a sign of systemic failure care is a sign of systemic failure in the system. It's unacceptable.

I think we've all been been and witnessed it in our local trusts, but it is coming down in places and we want to continue to see that eradicated. On serious childhood illness. Can I pay tribute to my friend, the Member for North East Herefordshire, for his championing of families as children suffering from life threatening illnesses, and I know members on all sides of the House recognise the profound impact that receiving a diagnosis for a life threatening condition has on a child and their family.

It's vital that all these families feel supported, informed and cared for, and I wholeheartedly recognise that the support they are offered now is often not proactive or joined up with the onus on families, as he said, to navigate the system and seek that support themselves. And with this in mind, the government commissioned a report on the mental health impacts of life threatening childhood illness on families named in the memory of human Ann Davies, and I pay tribute to his parents for their campaigning and offer my deepest condolences.

The report process is progressing well and today I can commit to report being published in this Parliament with a full government response, then issued within three months of publication. For too long, children's health has not been a priority, which is why my hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Health and Social Care, as director of the Department to make maternal and child health central to their work, we know a child's health has ramifications across the world, across the wellbeing of the whole family, and there must be a better solutions to join up support for parents and unwell children.

And I can tell the House that will also ensure the new cross-government mental health strategy will also address how we better support parents and families, and the government intends to work closely with parents, families and campaigners to provide a workable solution and available support that is more proactive with regard to the amendments being brought forward for the opposition on new clause 142. The Member for the Opposition Spokesperson as obviously as ever, government's priority is the safety. Safety. I'm going to move forward, I think, with the those amendments in a moment as as she knows well, the provisions already in place for appropriately controlled access to puberty suppressing hormones for children and young people presenting with gender incongruence or dysphoria, these children and young people with gender incongruence deserve evidence based care.

And the Cass Review recommended a clinical trial to provide high quality comparative evidence on the potential benefits and risks of these medicines. And that's underway. And I and I agree with the comments from the Liberal Democrat spokesperson. It is it is you know, I have to disagree with the opposition that uniquely access to these type of medicines must be subject to the scrutiny and approval of Parliament. And I think as a clinician, she understands that. I would also like to address new clause 143.

As the hon. Member knows, the Hrc's updated Code of Practice for services. Public Functions associations commenced on the 5th of August. It provides guidance on how sex based distinctions in the Equality Act can be applied, including the NHS. This amendment is unnecessary. It is the law. The law is clear. The NHS will obviously follow the law. New guidance has been drafted and will be published imminently. And for the record, I am meeting the Darlington nurses that she spoke for. I agree that they were brave.

They should not have had to go through what they've had to go through, and I'm meeting them due to meet them next week. With regard to funeral regulation addressing new clause 41 and 42. In the name of the hon. Member for Gosport, and I think she spoke very powerfully on behalf of the whole House. I know many hon. Members and the work that she has done. I know my friend the Member for Kingston upon Hull West and Haltemprice has spoken to me a great deal about that, and I know my friend the Member for Leeds South West and Morley, also has.

And the government was appalled by the offences committed by Robert Bush and the profound harm caused to bereaved families. Every deceased person must be treated with care, respect and dignity and as the House knows, we are undertaking urgent work to develop comprehensive proposals, including formula regulation of the funeral sector to drive out rogue operators and strengthen protection for bereaved families. As she said, where operators work well, they also want to see this. We will begin sharing proposals shortly and I'm very happy to include hon.



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Members in these discussions. So. Very grateful to her for giving way. Does she accept that the Prime way. Does she accept that the Prime Minister said in July that the sector needed to be regulated, and that this continues to be a

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that this continues to be a priority for his government? Absolutely. And I'm committed, as I said, to work with him and as I said, to work with him and many hon. Members across the House on the amendments concerning medicines. I was pleased to meet my medicines. I was pleased to meet my hon. Friend the Member for Manchester Withington to discuss his amendments. I hope I reassured him that I think from his speech that the government does support well-designed research into innovative treatment using controlled drugs, where this is conducted safely and appropriately, and we also understand the complexities involved, including minimising the risk of harm and misuse.

That's why we're working across government to consider how to implement the recommendations from the Advisory Council on the misuse of drugs to reduce barriers to research with schedule one controlled drugs, and I committed to write to the hon. Member to set this out further, which I will do. A number of members also tabled issues about their local infrastructure. I appreciate that we have already published the capital plan. We've improved long term capital planning to improve local infrastructure. I think I am coming to the end of I think I, I think I've addressed most things, Madam Deputy Speaker and I think I'm afraid, I'm afraid.

I'm so sorry. I have to talk to the hon. Friend later. It has been wide ranging. If there are things that I have missed, I commit to getting through to people afterwards, and I know that my hon. Friend Baroness, as she proceeds this bill through the House, is committed to working

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very cooperatively with all members. Order, order! Under the order of

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Order, order! Under the order of the House of the 7th of September, I must now put the questions necessary to bring proceedings on necessary to bring proceedings on consideration to a conclusion. The question is that New clause 94 be question is that New clause 94 be read a second time. As many as are read a second time. As many as are of that opinion say aye. Of the contrary, no. I think the ayes have it. The ayes have it. The question is that new clause 94 be added to the Bill.

As many as of that opinion say aye. I Of the contrary, no. I think the ayes have it. The ayes have it. We now come to government. New clauses 95, 98, 99, 100 and 101. I call the Minister to move new clauses 95, 98, 99, 100 and 101. Formerly. Question is that new clauses 95, 98, 99, 100 and 101 be added to the Bill. As many as are of that opinion say aye. Of the contrary, no. I think the ayes have contrary, no.

I think the ayes have it. The ayes have it. Yeah. I'm. New. Clause 140 has been selected for separate decision. I call the Liberal Democrat spokesperson to move new clause 140. Formally. Formally the question is that new clause 140 be added to the bill. As many as of that opinion say aye. Of The The question The question is The question is that The question is that new
18:02
None Portrait Division
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clause 140 be added to the bill. As many as of that opinion say aye. I of the contrary. No, no. The of the contrary. No, no. The tellers. For the eyes are Claire Young and Bobby Dean. The Tellers Order, Order, order Order, order order. Order, order order. 79 Order, order order. 79 of the Noes to the left 300. The ayes to the right were 79. The noes to the left 300.

So the noes have it. The noes have it unlock.

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Rebecca Paul. New clause 142 has been selected

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New clause 142 has been selected for separate decision. I call the Shadow Minister to move new clause Shadow Minister to move new clause 142 formally. The question is that 142 formally. The question is that new clause 142 be added to the Bill.

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As many as of that opinion say aye. of the contrary. No, No vision. The The question The question is that new clause 142 be added to the bill. As many as are of that opinion say aye. Of the contrary, no. no. The Tellers for the ayes as to Ashley Fox and Rebecca Smith. The Tellers for the noes Emma Foody Order, Order, order!

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The Ayes to the right 108. The noes to the left 357.

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noes to the left 357. The ayes to the right were 108. The noes to the left 357. So the The noes to the left 357. So the noes have it. The noes have it noes have it. The noes have it unlock. New clause 143 has been selected for separate decision. I

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call the Shadow Minister to move. New clause 143 formally. Move normally.

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Move normally. The question is that new clause

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The question is that new clause 143 be added to the bill. As many as are of that opinion say aye. Of as are of that opinion say aye. Of the contrary, no. no. Clear the Is Is that Is that new Is that new clause Is that new clause 143 Is that new clause 143 be added to the bill. As many as of that opinion say aye. I of the contrary. No, no. The tellers, for the eyes are Rebecca Smith and sir Ashley Fox the Tellers for the noes Order.

Order. The Order. The ayes Order. The ayes to Order. The ayes to the Order. The ayes to the right Order. The ayes to the right 106. Order. The ayes to the right 106. The noes to the left. 302. The ayes to the right are 106 the noes to the left 302 so the noes have it. The noes have it unlock. Amendment one has been selected for separate decision. I call the shadow Minister to move the amendment. Formally.

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Move formally. The question is that amendment

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The question is that amendment one be made? As many as of that opinion say aye. I of the contrary. opinion say aye. I of the contrary. The The question The question is The question is that The question is that amendment The question is that amendment one be made as many as of that opinion, say I. Of the contrary. No, no. The tellers. For the eyes are to Ashley Fox and Rebecca Smith the Tellers

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Paul Paul Kohler Order! Order! Order!

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Ayes to the right 162. The Noes

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Ayes to the right 162. The Noes

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to the left 297. The ayes to the right were 162.

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The ayes to the right were 162. The noes to the left 297. So the noes have it. The noes have it noes have it. The noes have it unlock. I call the Minister to move government amendment 65 to 69 and 72 to 75 formerly. The question is that government amendment 65 to 69 and 72 to 75 be made. As many as of that opinion, say aye. Of the contrary. No, I think the ayes have it. The ayes have it.

Consideration completed Third Reading.
18:51
Yvette Cooper Portrait Rt Hon Yvette Cooper MP, Secretary of State for Health and Social Care (Pontefract, Castleford and Knottingley, Labour)
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Now. >> Minister to move. Third Reading. Secretary of State Yvette Cooper thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I beg to move the bill.

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beg to move the bill. Now be read a third time. Let me thank all of those who. Have been. Involved in bringing this bill

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to this point. And. All of those who have been. Involved the. Committee, the parliamentary

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Committee, the parliamentary staff, the departmental staff and legal staff as well, and on all sides of the House who have debated sides of the House who have debated so many different issues in the course of the passage of this bill. But let me particularly pay huge But let me particularly pay huge thanks to my hon. Friend the Member for Bristol South, who not only.

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Has chaperoned this bill through every stage from beginning to end, including through some different health secretaries along the way, but has also done so and done Report stage on her birthday. So a huge happy birthday as well to my hon. Friend the member, and I'm grateful to everybody for the engagement on this, and also those who have taken the opportunity, as well as debating the issues in the bill, also to use these debates to raise so many issues that are so important to patient care right across the country, and to the improvements that we need to make to patient and family care, including the pay.

The parents of Little Human Eye Davis, who were in the House today, and I know members on all sides have been raising issues from sent to funeral regulation to health inequalities. It is important that our NHS and health systems continue to improve. I will give way to my hon.

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Friend the Secretary of State very much for giving way. I know time is short. She was talking about the various issues that have about the various issues that have come up while the bill has been debated. One of them is the most common cause of death in the UK, common cause of death in the UK, which is dementia. In an amendment I tabled with the Alzheimer Society, I tabled with the Alzheimer Society, it suggested that we bring the data on dementia, which is scattered right across the health system at the moment, into a single place to drive progress on early diagnosis and treatment.

Would she agree that's an important priority for the government?

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My hon. Friend is exactly right to raise this vital issue. So many of us will have families, constituents who are affected by constituents who are affected by dementia. We are committed to introducing a dementia tsar as part of our response to Louise Casey's commission, and we will be looking commission, and we will be looking at the data issues and evidence as part of that. But on this legislation that has now completed legislation that has now completed its passage through this House, I want to thank my predecessors as want to thank my predecessors as health secretaries for the work they have done, bringing down waiting lists, improving treatment and more appointments than ever before.

Thousands more doctors, nurses, midwives, mental health workers all in place than ever before, for which we thank our National Health Service staff across the country. But they have also recognised we inherited a system that was still badly held back by the failed 2012 Lansley reforms, including the huge administrative and unaccountable bureaucracy with lots of duplication, poor communication and no proper accountability. That is what this legislation has been about to strengthen democratic accountability and also the focus on patient care. I should be clear, I pay tribute to the work that has been done by many people across NHS England, including particularly the recent work of the current chief executive, Jim Mackey, working to substantially improve patient care and to reduce that duplication.

But the systems and structures have been holding people back. So that is why we have brought this reform forward, and that is why we will be as part of this ending, the not just the wasteful duplication, but making sure that our NHS system is better able to deliver. I will update the House and the NHS shortly on the future operating arrangements. Let me say now that it means returning to some of the arrangements that applied before 2012, when we had strong national NHS leadership, but with much greater partnership and accountability and far less duplication than we have today.

And I have been frank with both the Department and NHS England that the focus needs to be on patients. We are making some further reforms in response to the discussions in this House. I have made a commitment we will bring forward in the House of Lords amendments to establish England's first statutory maternity Commissioner, implementing the Amos Review's recommendation, but also directly reflecting the work and determination of my hon. Friend the Member for Sherwood Forest, the government's national maternity adviser, and I thank her for the work that she has done.

We have also amended the bill to ensure local government is represented on ICB, something raised by the Select Committee, and I am also clear we need to ensure patients voices are properly embedded in decision making. And, of course, members have all debated the importance of the single patient record to improve care. Madam Deputy Speaker, it is great to be back at this Dispatch Box as a health Minister, 24 years since I last spoke at the despatch box. As a Health Minister, I am surprised at, and in many ways at how little has changed.

But the one thing that has that has not changed, that is so immensely important to all of us is the dedication of NHS staff and the people who work right across the country to support patients, to support communities. This is about helping them to make sure they can do their jobs in the most effective way. I commend this bill to the House. The question is that the

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bill be now read the third time. Hinds. Yes, thank you very much, Madam Speaker, and I welcome the Secretary of State back, as it were. It is the Commons Third Reading of this bill, and she is the third this bill, and she is the third Secretary of State for this Bill. It was about 40 minutes after the first reading that the right hon. Member for Ilford resigned. I Member for Ilford resigned. I wonder which bit he had just spotted then. But we wish her well, and not only because of her East Hampshire heritage.

There will be times when we disagree entirely. There will be times when we find commonality. But all of those times it is our job to scrutinise the government in the interests of the public and on behalf of the dedicated professionals and other staff in these most vital of sectors. It's also my first opportunity. Madam Deputy Speaker, to pay tribute to my predecessor in
18:57
Damian Hinds Portrait Rt Hon Damian Hinds MP (East Hampshire, Conservative)
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this role, the right hon. Member for Daventry. He took on that responsibility in the very finest traditions of this House. He had and has the respect and admiration across the House, and I know his approach has also been much appreciated by so many working in and in support of health and social and in support of health and social care. Madam Deputy Speaker, this has been a big bill, and I want to thank the public Bill Committee for all the work they did.

I want to particularly thank my hon. Friend from Sleaford and North Hykeham, my hon. Friend from Farnham and Barton and Bordon as the whip now Shadow Shadow Minister and for everybody on that committee. We will not divide at Third Reading because there are important things in this Bill that we support. But there is a great deal of concern, a huge IT project with no detail behind it as yet. It should put a shiver down any incoming Ministers back when they hear they've been bequeathed the large public sector IT transformation project, taking oversight out and putting it inside the body that is meant to oversee removing patient voice and most of all, an enormous top down reorganisation of the NHS.

There have already been ten of those since 1974. If the answer to the NHS problems was a top down reorganisation, maybe one of the previous ones would have worked. But whatever the outcome, whatever this legislation ends up being, I know the House of Lords. The other place, will be scrutinising it closely. We will scrutinise its implementation and what difference?

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patients. The question is that the Bill be

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The question is that the Bill be now read the third time. As many as now read the third time. As many as are of that opinion say aye. Of the contrary, no. I think the ayes have contrary, no. I think the ayes have it. The ayes have it. Before we move on to the remaining orders, move on to the remaining orders, the frontbench might want to swap

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Number four Number four on Number four on licenses Number four on licenses and licensing Minister to move. I beg.

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I beg. To move. The question is, as on

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To move. The question is, as on the Order Paper, as many as are of that opinion say aye. Of the

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contrary, no. I think the ayes have it. The ayes have it. Motion number five on Building and buildings. Minister to move. I beg.

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I beg. To move. The question is, as on the Order Paper, as many as are of that opinion, say I. Of the contrary, no. I think the ayes have it. The ayes have it. Motion number six on disclosure of information. Minister to move. I beg to move. The question is, as on the Order Paper, as many as are of that opinion say aye. Of the contrary, no. I think the ayes have it. The ayes have it. We now come to motion number seven, relating to a joint Committee on the draft Conversion practices.

Bill Minister to move.

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Not moved, not moved. Petition. Mr. Peter Bedford. Yes. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. Further to my online petition, which to date has received over 9000 signatures, I rise to present this paper petition against the expansion of the local government boundaries of Leicester City Council. Prior to the summer recess, the government announced proposals the government announced proposals for local government reorganisation in Leicestershire. These plans would have placed the villages of Anstey, Birstall, Cropston and Glenfield, Kevin McKenna, Leicester Forest, East Thurcaston, Braunstone Town and Thorpe Astley within the
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None Portrait Petitions
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>> Yeah yeah yeah yeah. >> Petition proposed Leicester City Council boundary expansion.

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Council boundary expansion. Petition. Mims Davies. Yeah. Yeah yeah. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker,

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Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker, I rise to present this petition on behalf of 563 constituents from East Grinstead and Uckfield and the surrounding villages, as well as a further 1364 people who have signed online for over five years. The Copthorne Hotel has housed asylum seekers, depriving the community of both a local employer and a much used and much loved community space. Since 2023, my constituents have seen other hotels opened for asylum accommodation close before the Copthorne Hotel.

There is a palpable sense of frustration within the community. They have played their part and the length of time this arrangement has continued is simply unacceptable. My constituents urgently want clarity on when this hotel will close. The prayer of the petition is as follows. The petitions of the residents of the constituency of East Grinstead and Uckfield declares that the Copthorne Hotel in Copthorne should be returned to its former use as a major local employer, valuable Gatwick airport accommodation and a highly valued community hub in line with the Mid Sussex District Council.

Motion passed in September 2025. The petitioners, therefore, request that the House of Commons urges the government to facilitate the return of the Copthorne Hotel used as an asylum accommodation for the last six years to its original proper use at the earliest opportunity and before the current planning permission expires and the petitions remain, etc.

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Petition Copthorne Hotel. I beg to move that this House do now adjourn.

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now adjourn. The question is that this House do now adjourn. Simon Hoare thank you very much

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Simon Hoare thank you very much indeed, Madam Deputy Speaker And just from the outset, can I just
19:04
None Portrait Adjournment: Regulation of retirement property management companies
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say what a pleasure it is to see the hon. Lady, my good friend the Member for Vauxhall and Camberwell in her place, replying to this debate. The whole House was delighted to see her promotion in the recent reshuffle long overdue, and I look forward to how she replies to this debate to work out the benchmark for her appearances on future occasions. Madam Deputy Speaker, the weight of documentation I hold in my hands this evening will give the House some indication, I think, of the weight of the problem that the organisation and the.

And the organisation of the retirement property management companies present to many of our constituents across the country. My remarks are principally motivated by the pretty lamentable behaviour of a company called Cognatum that runs three facilities in my North Dorset constituency, that's Home Farm in you and Minster Castle Gardens in Shaftsbury and Walpole Court in Puddletown and I have had constituents from those three come to see me on many occasions and write and email with a growing list of concerns which seem to go absolutely ignored, and they shouldn't take it.

I think particularly personally, because Cognatum has been presenting problems in other constituencies. To the hon. Gentleman, for Surrey Heath and for Honiton and Sidmouth, and I met them some little while ago to talk through the concerns that our constituents were sharing with us. They listened, they met, and then they wrote to us to say, well, thank you very much indeed. We will never meet you again. Everything in the garden is rosy. We don't recognise the evidence that you have given us.

There is a real problem here and government needs to act. And I think, unfortunately, I think I may be correct in highlighting a point that my constituent, Jean Wilkinson, raised, a resident of one of the Cognatum properties, and she wrote to me and I read as follows. It is also important to highlight that a significant number of residents are elderly and in poor health. As a result, many do not feel able to raise concerns or advocate for themselves.

This creates a situation where important issues risk being overlooked and where residents feel they do not have a sufficient voice on that point. If the hon. Gentleman will forgive me, I've had a number of emails from across the country and from other constituents who effectively mirror and echo that point. And I know, Madam Deputy Speaker, you too have had issues, albeit with a different company in your constituency as well. We were talking about that earlier in the day.

I think, to many of these property management companies view their residents as elderly cash cows. Vulnerable people who have worked hard, saved hard. They want to be independent in their older years, and they don't want to have a huge amount of fuss and bother. They actually just want a quiet, peaceful, dignified, sensible, grown up sort of a life. And as one gets older, I am certain that you become a little less bullish in challenging authority and questioning and anything for a quiet life if the service charges go up, if the management charges go up, they're not given a particularly clear explanation.

They're not given a very cogent argument to support it. Well, I'll just write the check and pay because it's the line of least resistance. Well, the hon. Gentleman, and I'm absolutely convinced that that is now a deep set and ingrained way in how a lot

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of these companies are operating. I thank the hon. Gentleman. For giving way. He is setting

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For giving way. He is setting out a compelling case for how these providers of retirement homes and providers of retirement homes and accommodation are letting people down, and the real absence of redress that a lot of these residents have. Does he agree with residents have. Does he agree with me that this is something where we desperately need more regulation and oversight, and the government and oversight, and the government needs to take action to that effect? I agree fundamentally with the hon. Gentleman on that, and I think, and I'll come on to that in a moment, because there are very there are two very specific areas which I think require attention.

But Cognatum doesn't get off scot free because they have the dogged, doggedly determined constituent Peter Wintle, who lives in Home Farm of Ewan Minster, who has cogently and sensibly asked questions over the years of cognatum to be met with very little in reply. The issues that Peter raises with me on behalf of those residents and they are echoed by others, is the absence of management transparency a key and important thing? Accountability of the companies involved, the lack of clear communication that sets out in easily digestible form information which residents require openness on finance, explaining why service charges go up, explaining why certain repairs or maintenance are being done in a certain way.

A lackadaisical and tardy attitude in responding to issues and complaints raised by residents. Things which would not be should not be expected. A complaint Strangford a complaint system not worthy of the name and in the case of Cognatum, because of the way that they organise themselves. Unaudited accounts which make it incredibly hard for anybody to follow the line on the balance sheet, I give way to the honourable. No adjournment debate

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would be complete without the hon. Gentleman. Thank you very much. Can I commend hon. Member for North Dorset for bringing this North Dorset for bringing this forward? Vulnerable retirees and Strangford, my constituency, are mirroring their very anxieties. Development in general has referred Development in general has referred to, but we don't have to. We have the ground rent Salford on that. It lacks a statutory cap on ground lacks a statutory cap on ground rents, regulate, unable to regulate the runaway management and event fees levied by private firms.

So does the hon. Member not agree that our elderly populations, my elderly constituents in Strangford, regardless of which corner of the United Kingdom they reside in, deserve uniform financial protections and safety from

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honourable. Well, I agree, and I think that speaks back to the point I was speaks back to the point I was making a moment or so ago that I think too many of these companies see their residents as a soft or easy touch, that they will just suck it up, that they will, just,

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suck it up, that they will, just, as I say, write the check. And I give way to my friend from Bromsgrove. Of course, I. Thank my hon. Friend for giving

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Thank my hon. Friend for giving way and for calling this adjournment debate. Does he agree with me that there's a particular predatory aspect upon the death of a resident who's occupied one of these properties? I'd like to use this moment. If I can pay tribute to Alex Roll, a constituent of mine whose mother's estate, as has been well crawled all over by predatory management companies that have seen an opportunity to see effectively seize the asset of someone who worked tirelessly through their life.

This system urgently needs

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reform. It is desperate for reform. I. I agree again with my hon. Friend and his constituent, Alex Friend and his constituent, Alex Roll, has been in contact with me via Facebook, and I take the point via Facebook, and I take the point that my hon. Friend makes on her behalf and that she makes. On behalf of countless others, which behalf of countless others, which is. These companies are inclined to is. These companies are inclined to effectively. Both. I suppose, hunt for the hounds and run with the hare at the same.

At the same time, if somebody dies. If the property is then up for sale. And sometimes the resale. Because of the restrictive covenants, that can be quite a slow and difficult business. Not only do they receive a fairly significant clawback at the point of sale, but they are also demanding service charges to be paid whilst the property is vacant or and or whilst probate is awaited. So they're really trying to milk it from both, from from both, from both ends.

And that just doesn't, I think, stack up in the in the court of public opinion, if you will, as being fair or justifiable, because one should be able to say, right, this property is vacant, we will not levy the service charge that is will effectively be included in the clawback that we get at the point of sale, because clearly there is no resident in that property using the service. And I give way to the hon. Lady for. Wells and Mendip Hills Wells and Mendip Hills.

I was

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going to say Mendip Hills and Wells, but yes. Thank you. Sorry. I thank the hon.

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Sorry. I thank the hon. Gentleman very much indeed. I just wanted to point out exactly that I've. Constituent whose property I've. Constituent whose property has been on the market since 2022. The landlord chooses whom the new The landlord chooses whom the new owner will be the adult members of the family who are struggling to get onto the property ladder. Can't get onto the property ladder. Can't go on because they're not over 55, and the rents are the the landlord won't allow the property to be rented out, even though it rents its properties out on the same site.

And there are absolutely. There's an exit fee as well. It is absolutely catastrophic. And I wonder whether the hon. Gentleman would agree with me that this is just opportunistic profiteering at the expense of people who are vulnerable. And actually, when

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people have died, the families are really catastrophically affected. Yeah. So the hon. Lady expresses it

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So the hon. Lady expresses it very well, and I agree with her assessment entirely. I think it is assessment entirely. I think it is the age and vulnerability of many, the anything for the quiet life which is being exploited to the max. which is being exploited to the max. And Madam Deputy Speaker, I, I did say that I, I did want to mention very specifically and in this campaign, he is very much my hon. Friend the Member for Surrey Heath, who has been working very.

We've been working very closely on the issues with regards to Cognatum. He has Mytchett Heath in his constituency and the issues which are being raised by his residents. Mirror mine and it's not a pretty picture and I give way to the. I probably for the final time, to the hon. Lady for Lancaster.

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Darren Jones was very, very kind. I. I wanted. To take this just to say that I'm very much aware. My constituency, I've got a property constituency, I've got a property called Williamson Court, which is run by McCarthy Stone and everything that the colleagues are saying sounds very familiar. So does the hon. Gentleman have any sense of the scale of this right across the country? Because it strikes me that we represent very strikes me that we represent very different parts of the UK in this chamber.

And does he have any sense of the scale of this problem?

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of the scale of this problem? I, I think it I think it manifests itself in all quarters of the United Kingdom, but not all companies are culpable. I. This is a rotten via. The campaign is on the regulation of the funeral sector. It's the rotten apples in the barrel that give the whole sector a bad name, and it's. And it's them to whom and against attention should be. Will he forgive me because I we we want to hear from the from the Minister.

Issues with regard to Cognatum. I'm told that it and its subsidiaries claim small companies exemptions, meaning that there are no independent audits and the directors control the financial disclosures. Inconsistent and exceptional accounting items suggest financial irregularities. The company operates on a going concern basis, despite significant intercompany debts, and the auditors do not sign the reported financial statements, raising accountability concerns. This suggests, as the hon. Lady and others have suggested, the need for regulation. So what am I to ask of the Minister? The first is to have a thorough assessment of the effectiveness and the independence, or rather lack thereof, of the Association of Retirement Housing Managers.

They are populated by current operators in the main, effectively colleagues being asked to mark other colleagues homework. And that I don't think is sustainable or desirable. I think that needs looking at. A number of my constituents believe that there is a rather lackadaisical approach to following the requirements of section 20 of the Landlord and Tenant Act, 1985, and I know the government has been doing some work around that and would be interesting to hear what the Minister has to say.

But in closing, I'm grateful to colleagues from across the House who have supported me in this endeavour, and I pay tribute again to the hon. Gentleman for Surrey Heath and for Honiton and Sidmouth, for the work that the three of us have been doing with regards to Congleton, we did say that there would be an adjournment debate if they weren't prepared to engage and try to pull up their socks and improve their operation and the service that they give to their residents.

So this is a debate really, and literally of their own making. But it is a sector, I think, which has grown up quite quickly. It is still quite novel in this country. I think people are still finding their way, and probably we're only on about first or second generation of residents who are learning and experiencing the pitfalls of both resale and some of the clawback issues there, but also the lack of accountability, which exists in the management and the maintenance of many of these places where people live, where they've chosen to live, where they have invested a significant sum of their money so that they can live a retired life in dignity.

And so, so briefly, let me.

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Thank the hon. Gentleman for giving way. And the situation he outlines and describes is somewhat analogous to what we see with park homes, the park homes. There is a requirement for a fit and proper person test with the local authority regulating. Does he think authority regulating. Does he think this might be something that would suit. Perhaps this situation he outlines.

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outlines. That's a very good suggestion, and I think anything has to be better than the status quo, because the status quo I do not believe, is either defensible or indeed desirable. The hon. Gentleman

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finally. Patients. I am going to give way to him. I thank the hon. Member for giving way. I have a 92 year old constituent, Frieda Quinton, who has not been able to live in her retirement property since April because despite repeated assurances that the persistent and unresolved that the persistent and unresolved leaks would be repaired, they have not been repaired. And this means that my constituent can't live independently and she's now has health concerns, emotional distress and financial pressures.

Does my does the hon. Member agree that this is absolutely no way to treat older residents and it's a problem that is exists with not only the management company he is referred to, but other management companies as well.

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I agree, and I think there is a common theme coming through here, which is the age, the vulnerability, which is the age, the vulnerability, the anything for the quiet life. They were not empowered to ask questions, were not maybe digitally alert. Some bigwig from a company comes along and attends a meeting. comes along and attends a meeting. In the case of Cognatum, they tell us, well, don't worry, Mr. Hoar, Doctor Pinkerton, Mr. Ford, don't Doctor Pinkerton, Mr. Ford, don't worry.

We have a tenant representative on the board. And how is the tenant representative chosen? It's chosen by the Board of Congleton. Not elected by fellow residents at all. So a poacher chooses another poacher, potentially to mark their own homework. So. But I think it is because of this vulnerability. There's anything for a quiet life because are we empowered to ask questions? And indeed, one of my constituents and this is this was really the tipping point for me. One of my customers was asking perfectly legitimate questions in a perfectly civil way, finds on his doormat a letter from Cognatum solicitors saying, we think you are being vexatious and we are considering your lease arrangements, effectively saying ask any more questions, sunshine and you're out on your ear.

This gentleman is over 80. I don't think that is the right and proper way to treat anybody. And I think all of that, the case that the hon. Gentleman raises is a distressing one, obviously causing concern to him and to his constituents and to their friends and family. The comments and observations made in this debate, I hope, have convinced the Minister that the the status quo cannot continue and that whilst we all call for sort of a regulatory approach, etc.

this is a particular area of operation, grown swiftly, grown autonomously, which is now crying out for better reform and the reform of the association and the rigorous enforcement of of the section of the act, which I've quoted, would be a good starting point.

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Yeah, yeah. Minister Florence Eshalomi. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker.

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Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. May I start by congratulating the right hon. Gentleman for Dorset, right hon. Gentleman for Dorset, North Dorset, for securing this debate and for his kind remarks and on my appointment. And I have very fond memories of shadowing the hon. Gentleman on in the opposition. I know that he has a breadth of knowledge across Mhclg, and this is an issue that's close to his heart. Can I also thank other members for their contributions this evening? And I want to start, Madam Deputy Speaker, by reassuring the right hon.

Gentleman that this is an area that I have been looking at, and although this is sits with my colleague, Minister Pennycook, I'm responding tonight, but I will be feeding back to him on these key issues. I think the contributions tonight highlights the really important area. And if we're honest, the many challenges that leaseholders and especially elderly leaseholders are facing right across the country with management companies, I think the flagrant disregard for people who've worked so hard to be able to secure their property and have that independent living, and I think the hon.

Gentleman highlighted the key areas where management companies continue to let people down. Issues around transparency, accountability, communication, responding to issues, raising complaints and audited accounts. These are basic things that management companies should be doing. And I think about that for for many elderly leaseholders, if they don't have a network of family support helping them navigate this, it can feel as hon. Member for Bromsgrove highlighted, predatory because when you are receiving those letters with demands, it can be quite scary.

We really recognise the hugely important role, and I think there is a role that older people's housing sector plays in ensuring that people do have that independence in later life. We want to be able to make sure we are keeping people out of hospital, and that can only happen if they have a safe and secure home of their own to go back to. And the government is is really committed to enhancing the provisions and choice across the residential market, including for older people.

And that means both increasing the supply of homes for older people and, most importantly, improving the experience of older people in their own homes. And I think many residents of retirement homes have made a financial and personal, in some cases, significant contribution to their homes. And they should have the confidence that when they raise valid concerns, they should be addressed promptly. They should be addressed in a timely manner. When they challenge bad practice, they should get a response and they shouldn't have to come to their members of Parliament.

But we are seeing so many people resorting to raising issues. We are seeing parliamentarians having to name and shame management companies until any action is taken. That should not be the way that things

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are happening. I will give way on that. I want to thank the Minister for giving way and I'm delighted to see giving way and I'm delighted to see her in her place. She, I'm sure, will remember that the Select Committee recently scrutinised the Leasehold reform Bill. We found it wanting. It didn't go far or fast enough, and the solution to the problems outlined in this debate is problems outlined in this debate is to properly regulate property managing agents, especially those managing agents, especially those that run vulnerable elderly retirement homes.

So does she agree with me that leasehold reform Bill

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needs to come back urgently with that regulation? Minister.

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Minister. I thank the hon. Gentleman and hope that the Select Committee is going very well, and he will know that this is an issue that we championed on the Select Committee to the point where, if he will to the point where, if he will recall, I, in many sense harassed the former Prime Minister and the Minister for housing to say when we Minister for housing to say when we will see this bill, this bill has to become before the House. It's it's an issue that comes up in many parliamentarians inbox.

It's a cross-party issue, and we want to see the government enact on that and make good on that commitment. And I just want to highlight that there are many good managing agents out there. This is not about saying that the issue of managing agents is all bad. There are good managing agents who are responsible, who respond on time, who are responsible for safe and secure homes for their residents. But we know that far too often the poor managing agents and unscrupulous managing agents let the sector down.

Managing agents play an important role in the maintenance of a wide range of multi-occupancy buildings and freehold estates increase as we transition towards a commonhold future, so it's essential that we take action to drive up the standards within the sector. As hon. Members will know, and Minister and the hon. Gentleman will know, the previous government committed to regulating managing agents in 2018, Knox, a working group chaired by the noble Lord bass, to advise them how to do that. Yet it failed to respond to the group's final report, which was published in July 2019.

But we've moved on from that. It's about how do we now take those recommendations and actually bring an outcome for so many people, and the government is ready to take forward a number of those recommendations. The retirement sector has some specific arrangements in place. Many retirement housing managing agents already operate under the the Association of Retirement Housing
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Florence Eshalomi Portrait Florence Eshalomi MP, Minister of State (Housing, Communities and Local Government) (Vauxhall and Camberwell Green, Labour )
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Managers Code of Practice, which sets the standards on transparency and complaints handling. But as we've heard this evening, that doesn't seem to be working. And it's about how we make sure that we it's about how we make sure that we are enforcing some of these key areas elsewhere in the sector. A similar consumer protection standards are promoted through the Association of Retirement Community Operators Consumer Code for its members. And I stress again, we recognise the concerns, remains and parts of the sector and how we can protect consumers and residents to strengthen that and have a consistent approach.

In the recent consultation on strengthening leaseholders protections over charges and services, we consulted on powers to appoint a manager or replace the managing agent, as well as mandatory professional qualifications for managing agents in England. The government will be consulting on the introduction qualifications for estate and letting agents next year. We have also made clear that we plan to introduce a code of practice this year, setting out the minimum standards expected of all residential property agents and this includes estates, lettings and managing agents.

The government is considering Lordships reporting fall, and we will set out our overarching position on regulation

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that will work. Minister. I thank the hon. Member for

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I thank the hon. Member for Didcot and Wantage. Harrogate. It's nearly right for for that my nearly right for for that my apologies. I, I think that's an issue that I'll definitely be forwarding. I've taken a note of and I will forward that to the

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Housing Minister in terms of a proper response to him. I'll give. Thank you, Minister, for giving

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Thank you, Minister, for giving way. When she says managing agents, does she mean managing management companies? A bit like Firstport, the lamentable service of organisations like Firstport and I mean one of the retirement buildings in my patch. They've just been offered repainting of their windows for £240,000. I think it works out at over £5,000 per flat. I mean, this is just for the birds. It's absolutely bonkers. So I just wanted to be sure that they will be captured within the legislation she proposes.

Minister.

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I can reassure the hon. Lady that Firstport continues to come up regularly, and I had the pleasure regularly, and I had the pleasure in my former role as the chair of the Select Committee, scrutinising and questioning the managing Director and chief executive for sport, and the hon. Lady will be sport, and the hon. Lady will be aware that the Housing Minister also mentioned Firstport and held important meetings with Firstport. important meetings with Firstport. But there are other managing agents as well that we should not let off the hook.

Although Firstport have a large share of properties across the country, and the hon. Gentleman mentioned the consultation on section 20, I think this is a key issue that the government have been looking at. I just want to come on that, and I know that the government consulted on that last year, and my understanding is that the government will be setting out the response in due course. And this is something, again, that I will push the Housing Minister on his behalf on in making sure we come back to that in a timely manner.

I also wanted to highlight the experiences that other hon. Members have raised on behalf of their constituents, and I think it is important that we continue to share these really valid examples and showing why we need to move at pace in terms of regulating this a really important area. We recognise that the scrutiny into the Commonhold and leasehold recommended a number of measures in terms of extending requirement retirement providers, and we will consider that as part of our work. I'm very happy to say that there was a good member of Parliament who led on that pre-budget scrutiny.

And to conclude, Madam Deputy Speaker, I'm grateful to many hon. Members for coming to the House this evening for an opportunity to debate this really important issue. I thank members who participated in this debate today for sharing those insights and, most importantly, sharing the lived examples and and concerns that many residents continue to face. We continue to see people worried about when another bill or letter comes through the door, what they're going to be asked and demanded for when they're worried, when they don't respond to those letters being issued with court and threatening letters.

It's really important that we do address this in terms of the emotional, physical and mental impact. It's not just the financial impact it's having on very vulnerable residents. So I just want to thank all members for engaging with this, and I look forward to working with them. And I know that the honourable Minister, as well for housing and planning,

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will also be engaging further with members. The question is that this House

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The question is that this House do now adjourn, as many as are of that opinion, say I, I, the ayes
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