House of Commons

Wednesday 6th November 2024 Commons Chamber

Wednesday 6 November 2024

The House met at half-past Eleven o’clock

Prayers

Wednesday 6th November 2024 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker in the Chair]

Oral Answers to Questions

Wednesday 6th November 2024 Commons Chamber

The Secretary of State was asked—

[Carolyn Harris (Neath and Swansea East) (Lab)]

1. What steps she is taking with Cabinet colleagues to support the steel industry in Wales.

[Adam Thompson (Erewash) (Lab)]

11. What steps she is taking with Cabinet colleagues to support the steel industry in Wales.

[The Secretary of State for Wales (Jo Stevens)]

Steelmaking is key to our missions to grow the economy and deliver clean power by 2030. We are committed to providing up to £2.5 billion for steel in addition to the £500 million already earmarked for Tata to build its electric arc furnace at the Port Talbot steelworks. I was pleased to reaffirm at the Budget £80 million of funding for the Port Talbot transition board, which I chair. We will continue to deliver this money to people and businesses affected.

[Carolyn Harris]

Unlike the previous Government, this Government are fully committed to enabling the £800 million transition fund to support former steelworkers. I recently visited the steelworkers’ support centre in Port Talbot, in the constituency of my hon. Friend the Member for Aberafan Maesteg (Stephen Kinnock). In its opening four weeks, it has helped almost 600 individuals, many of whom will be from Neath and Swansea East. Will the Secretary of State join me in thanking Community union and the other organisations that have set up the centre, and provide an update on the transition fund?

[Jo Stevens]

I completely agree with my hon. Friend that the hub is great. I opened the hub last month, and Community union and others have done a fabulous job with this one-stop shop to help support workers affected by the changes at Tata. This Government are determined to do everything we can to support workers and businesses. That is why this renewed partnership of Governments, unions and the local council is working together to ensure that the town gets what it needs. Funding from the UK Government is already making a difference via the transition board. We know that there is a huge amount of work to do, but we are already seeing people successfully placed in new jobs as a direct result of the £13.5 million that we have made available so far.

[Adam Thompson]

I thank the Secretary of State for her hard work to support our steel industry and our general steel communities, including in Port Talbot, since she has been in post. I was pleased to see the Chancellor confirm in the Budget £80 million of funding for the transition board, which the Secretary of State chairs. Will she tell the House why that was necessary?

[Jo Stevens]

In my first week as Welsh Secretary, I discovered that the £80 million promised by the previous Conservative Government for the transition board was part of the £22 billion of unfunded promises they had made. That shocking dereliction of duty threatened to leave workers and businesses high and dry without the support they needed. I have therefore made it my mission to fight tooth and nail for that money on behalf of our steel communities, and I would not have left them unsupported. I am pleased to be able to confirm that under this Labour Government the transition board is fully funded, and we are getting on with the delivery.

[Mr Speaker]

I welcome the new shadow Secretary of State for Wales.

[Mims Davies (East Grinstead and Uckfield) (Con)]

Thank you, Mr Speaker. At the outset, as I come to the Dispatch Box for the first time in this role for Wales questions, may I please pay tribute to my former private secretary in the Wales Office, Debbie John, who was taken at a tender age due to pancreatic cancer? She and her family are in my thoughts today as I take up this role. She is much missed and very fondly remembered.

The right hon. Lady clearly needs to acknowledge to the House that the deal for Tata steel recently re-announced by her UK Government is identical to the one negotiated by my right hon. Friend the Member for North West Essex (Mrs Badenoch), who is now Leader of the Opposition.

[Jo Stevens]

I welcome the hon. Lady to her place and join her in her comments about her former private office secretary.

I think the hon. Lady needs to read the deal reached by the Government. The £1.25 billion transformation project at Port Talbot will deliver a state-of-the-art electric furnace, the contract for which has just been signed. In just under 10 weeks, without providing any additional funding beyond the £500 million previously announced, we delivered a better deal that secures the immediate future of Port Talbot and lays the foundations for future investment, as well as enhanced protections for the workforce in Port Talbot, Llanwern, Trostre and Shotton.

[Mims Davies]

I am delighted that the right hon. Lady has read the deal that we wrote, but the facts are simple: despite the protesting, this is the same deal that was previously negotiated by the last Conservative Government, involving the same amount of money to build the electric arc furnace and the same cash for the transition board. It is ludicrous for her or others to continue to claim that no support was in place and that it somehow appeared when she found it down the back of the sofa. She is fully aware that the cash had been sitting there the whole time. Perhaps an apology is needed for that, and for claiming that Port Talbot supplies the defence industry with materials.

[Jo Stevens]

If an apology is due, it is to the people of Port Talbot for promising £80 million for a transition board that operated for nine months under the previous Secretary of State for Wales, and delivered not a single penny to the people of Port Talbot, and now we know why: the £80 million did not exist.

[Mr Speaker]

I call the Liberal Democrat spokesperson.

[David Chadwick (Brecon, Radnor and Cwm Tawe) (LD)]

The closure of the last blast furnace at Port Talbot has resulted in the loss of several thousand highly skilled jobs across south Wales, prompting another economic contraction across our region. The global centre for rail excellence at Onllwyn is one project that could reverse the trend of deindustrialisation and bring back good, well-paid jobs to south Wales. Will the Secretary of State confirm that the UK Government intend to make further investments in that project, and give an update on what conversations she has had to ensure that the project gets going?

[Jo Stevens]

The hon. Gentleman will know from both the Budget and the international investment summit that significant investments are being made in Wales as a result of this Government’s work: £63 billion was announced at the investment summit, £1 billion to Shotton Mill in north Wales—the biggest investment in Wales for decades. That will secure 300 jobs and mean that we will have the largest UK paper manufacturing site in the whole United Kingdom. We are growing the economy, creating jobs and delivering significant investment. I will write to him about the rail project.

[Tonia Antoniazzi (Gower) (Lab)]

2. What steps she is taking to strengthen the Union.

[Mark Ferguson (Gateshead Central and Whickham) (Lab)]

3. What steps she is taking to strengthen the Union.

[The Secretary of State for Wales (Jo Stevens)]

We have reset our relationship with the Welsh Government. Our approach is based on trust and mutual respect, and is spearheaded by the new Council of the Nations and Regions, which met for the first time last month. My regular meetings with the First Minister of Wales are also driving forward our new partnership, which is already delivering for Wales. That was evident in the biggest ever real-terms Budget settlement delivered for the Welsh Government last week.

[Tonia Antoniazzi]

The Secretary of State has been clear that this Labour Government will build a new partnership with the Welsh Government based on co-operation, respect and delivery. Will she say how the Government will give meaning to the manifesto commitment to strengthen devolution?

[Jo Stevens]

The previous Conservative Government ran roughshod over the devolution settlement, including by legislating in devolved areas without consent on numerous occasions. This Government will respect the devolution settlement and work in partnership with all devolved Governments. We will honour our manifesto commitment to do that by strengthening the Sewel convention, including a new memorandum of understanding between our Governments, ensuring that the petty squabbles of the past are confined to history and we can focus on delivering for the people of Wales.

[Mark Ferguson]

The Secretary of State has been very clear about the much-needed reset between the Welsh and UK Governments. Can she also make clear how the recent Budget has contributed to that reset?

[Jo Stevens]

Our Budget delivered for Wales for the first time in a generation, because the £21 billion settlement announced last week is the largest settlement in real terms since the dawn of devolution. It will provide a record boost for the Welsh Government to support vital public services in Wales, such as the NHS. It includes £25 million to maintain work to keep coal tips safe, and £320 million for investment zones in north and south Wales to power our sector strengths, which include the creative industries, life sciences and advanced manufacturing—for example, our world-leading compound semiconductor cluster. That shows the difference of Labour Governments working together.

[Tom Tugendhat (Tonbridge) (Con)]

First, may I pay tribute to my hon. Friend the Member for East Grinstead and Uckfield (Mims Davies), who has just taken on the role of shadow Secretary of State for Wales? It is a fantastic opportunity for her to champion a vital part of our Union. Secondly, may I ask the Secretary of State, who is newly in her post, what she will do to ensure that the power that brings our Union together comes out of Ynys Môn—that is Anglesey to her—so that she can ensure that the nuclear projects that keep us safe are properly invested in and not dropped, as they have been by this Labour Government? Labour Governments control both sides of the M4 now, and it is about time they delivered.

[Jo Stevens]

I wonder whether the right hon. Gentleman has ever been to Anglesey—or Ynys Môn, as he describes it. I am eager to see new nuclear developments in north Wales that will provide high-quality jobs across the region and drive economic growth. We recognise that a nuclear future at Wylfa could help to deliver several of our strategic objectives, achieving net zero energy independence and restoring economic prosperity across our nations and regions. Great British Nuclear completed the purchase of the site in June this year, and we will make further announcements about it very soon.

[Jim Allister (North Antrim) (TUV)]

Could the Secretary of State explain how it is possible to strengthen the Union while maintaining a partitioning border in the Irish sea at the behest of a foreign jurisdiction and under its laws?

[Jo Stevens]

I refer the hon. and learned Gentleman to my previous answer about the resetting of the relationship with the Welsh Government, and about working together and respecting the devolution settlement with all devolved Governments.

[Liz Saville Roberts (Dwyfor Meirionnydd) (PC)]

The Secretary of State talks about respecting the devolution settlement. Mark Drakeford wrote to the Chancellor before the Budget asking for a review of Wales’s Barnett formula for transport funding, which had fallen from 81% in 2015 to 36% in 2021. However, the Budget revealed a further cut in the Welsh transport comparability factor, which is now down to 33%. How come strengthening the Union under Labour means that every major rail project in England results in Wales losing out?

[Jo Stevens]

We are having ongoing discussions with the Welsh Government about funding flexibilities and their fiscal framework. We will deliver our manifesto commitment to work with the Welsh Government to address the outdated fiscal framework. As the right hon. Lady knows, heavy rail infrastructure is not devolved in Wales as it is in Scotland and Northern Ireland, and the Department for Transport settlement provides a £1.1 billion cash increase to total budgets in 2025-26 compared to 2024-25.

[Llinos Medi (Ynys Môn) (PC)]

4. What discussions she has had with the Welsh Government on the impact of the autumn Budget on Wales.

[The Secretary of State for Wales (Jo Stevens)]

I have regular discussions with the First Minister of Wales on a range of topics, including, of course, the autumn Budget. This Budget has delivered for Wales for the first time in a generation. The Welsh Government are receiving the largest settlement in real terms since devolution, to support public services such as the NHS. More than 100,000 workers in Wales benefit from increases in the national minimum wage and the national living wage each year.

[Llinos Medi]

In the Budget, the Chancellor announced that the Barnett formula would apply to funding for agriculture, rather than the devolved Governments receiving a ringfenced amount. The Farmers’ Union of Wales says that the Barnettisation of funding could lead to a cut of £146 million a year, or more than 40%. Can the Secretary of State say whether that figure is correct, and whether she believes that her Government’s Budget has shown any consideration at all for our farming communities?

[Jo Stevens]

I was very pleased that the Budget was able to protect the current farming budget for the next financial year, despite the difficult decisions that we had to make because the Conservative party had trashed our economy. [Interruption.]

[Mr Speaker]

Order. Mr Griffith, you are continually being a nuisance on the Front Bench. I want you either to restrict it or to go and get yourself that cup of tea.

[Jo Stevens]

Thank you, Mr Speaker. Obviously, farming is devolved in Wales, and the decision on how to spend that budget will be up to the Welsh Government.

[Catherine Fookes (Monmouthshire) (Lab)]

I welcomed last week’s Budget announcements about improving rail transport, and I want to bang the drum for a most excellent project in Monmouthshire, the Magor walkway station, which is ready for investment—indeed, we might even call it oven-ready. Will my right hon. Friend commit to working with the Rail Minister and me, and Welsh Ministers, to deliver the five Burns stations, and will she meet me to discuss progress?

[Jo Stevens]

My hon. Friend is a wonderful advocate for her constituency and for the Burns commission’s recommendations for her constituency, and I would be very happy to meet her to discuss them.

[Mr Speaker]

I call the shadow Secretary of State.

[Mims Davies (East Grinstead and Uckfield) (Con)]

Will the Secretary of State express her regret about the impact of Labour’s Budget on Wales? It will undoubtedly make the people of Wales poorer. Pensioners have been left wondering whether they should turn on their heating this winter, and family farms will be destroyed. The Budget is affecting business confidence and employment across the nation.

[Jo Stevens]

The Budget provides the biggest ever settlement in real terms since the dawn of devolution, a protected £80 million for steelworkers and businesses, £88 million for city and growth deals, £320 million for funding through investment zones, £25 million for coal tips and a protected £440 million for local communities— I could go on. It was a great deal for Wales.

[Mims Davies]

rose—

[Mr Speaker]

Order. You cannot just keep asking questions, shadow Secretary of State. You are allowed only two, and that was your second.

[Andrew Ranger (Wrexham) (Lab)]

5. What recent discussions she has had with Cabinet colleagues on increasing economic growth in Wales.

[The Secretary of State for Wales (Jo Stevens)]

The growth mission is the central priority for this Government. Our new industrial strategy and national wealth fund will boost economic growth across Wales, creating jobs and driving up living standards. Working alongside ministerial colleagues, I was pleased to confirm £320 million of funding for two investment zones in Wales, the green light on the freeport in the Celtic sea and protection for local community growth funding across Wales.

[Andrew Ranger]

I thank the Secretary of State for her answer. Universities in Wales, such as Wrexham University in my constituency, are crucial not just for the educational and research outcomes they provide, but for the economic opportunities they give our towns and cities, with a recent report by Universities Wales showing that their contribution to the economy stands at £11 billion. At a time when we are firmly in pursuit of economic growth, can the Secretary of State tell me what conversations she has had to ensure that universities in Wales are partners in this mission? Will she agree to visit Wrexham University with me to see at first hand the brilliant work that it is doing in collaboration with local businesses?

[Jo Stevens]

I would be delighted to go back to Wrexham and visit the university with my hon. Friend. Welsh universities will benefit from record levels of investment in research and development, which will be worth over £20 billion next year. The Budget confirmed £160 million of funding for the Wrexham and Flintshire investment zone, which was chosen due to the presence of world-renowned research institutions such as Wrexham University and Bangor University.

[Carla Lockhart (Upper Bann) (DUP)]

We say the phrase “no farmers, no food” so often, but never has there been a need for such emphasis as in the wake of the autumn Budget. Farmers in Wales, in Northern Ireland and right across this United Kingdom are reeling from the change in agricultural property relief and the impact it will have on the future of family farms. What is the Secretary of State doing to support farmers and make this case to the Treasury?

[Jo Stevens]

This Government continue to provide significant tax relief for farmers. For example, farming parents are able to pass up to £3 million to their children free of tax. They then pay half of the normal inheritance tax rates on anything over £3 million, and they have up to 10 years to pay it. The vast majority of farms will be unaffected by the changes in the Budget and will continue not to pay inheritance tax.

[Ruth Jones (Newport West and Islwyn) (Lab)]

6. What discussions she is having with the Welsh Government on collaborative efforts to improve healthcare in England and Wales.

[The Secretary of State for Wales (Jo Stevens)]

Cutting waiting lists is a top priority for both this Government and the Welsh Government. Last week’s spending review provided the Welsh Government with the largest real-terms settlement since devolution, including an additional £1.7 billion for 2025-26, enabling them to spend more on public services such as the NHS. I continue to collaborate with ministerial colleagues in both Governments, with the aim of driving down waiting lists.

[Ruth Jones]

I welcome this new partnership between the Welsh and UK Governments, which represents a real opportunity to share best practice and help to cut NHS waiting lists in England and Wales. Will the Secretary of State expand on how she will ensure that patients on both sides of the border get access to the best healthcare possible in a timely matter?

[Jo Stevens]

Both Governments are working collaboratively to make the NHS fit for the future. We provided a £1.75 billion boost for the Welsh Government to spend on public services such as the NHS, and the Welsh Government have just announced £28 million to cut NHS waiting times. Both Governments are sharing best practice and will consider more cross-border arrangements where capacity allows. The Welsh Government’s ministerial advisory group on NHS performance and productivity has been established to support improvements and bring down long waiting lists.

[Robin Swann (South Antrim) (UUP)]

The Secretary of State will know that health is devolved across all the nations. Can she reassure me that the Secretary of State for Health will work with all the devolved Health Ministers to make sure that we can truly engender a national health service for the likes of mental health provision?

[Jo Stevens]

I know that the Health and Social Care Secretary wants to ensure that the national health service across all of our four nations is fit for the future.

[Liz Saville Roberts (Dwyfor Meirionnydd) (PC)]

The British Medical Association in Wales says that GP funding has decreased as a percentage of the Welsh Government’s budget by over 2.6% since 2005. Treflan surgery in Pwllheli cannot afford to fill key staff roles, and Budget measures will cost it an extra £19,000. The Secretary of State for Wales knows the state of the NHS in Wales, so why is she instrumental in Labour at both ends of the M4 threatening GP surgeries?

[Jo Stevens]

We are not threatening GP surgeries. If the right hon. Lady does not think that the £1.7 billion additional funding to spend on the NHS in Wales as a result of the Budget is a great idea, she needs to say what she would do instead.

[Clive Jones (Wokingham) (LD)]

7. What discussions she is having with the Welsh Government on support for the farming industry in Wales.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Wales (Dame Nia Griffith)]

I recently met the Deputy First Minister of Wales to discuss a range of matters relating to farming. In September, the inter-ministerial group meeting on rural affairs agreed to improve food security and environmental land management by increasing the exchange of data and insights on farming support schemes. I was also pleased to see the Budget protecting Welsh farm budgets at current levels for the financial year.

[Clive Jones]

The Secretary of State, while in opposition, warned that the New Zealand trade deal would push Welsh farmers into bankruptcy and noted that Australian meat was produced at a far lower standard than in Wales. I agree. My constituents want high-quality Welsh lamb, beef and chicken. Will the Minister therefore push her colleagues in the Department for Business and Trade to review the Australia and New Zealand trade agreement and get it right for our farming communities?

[Dame Nia Griffith]

The hon. Member will know as well as I do that the new Leader of the Opposition is the one who sold our farmers down the river, negotiating deals with places such as Australia and leaving our farmers open to increasing quotas on imported meat. I assure him that this Government are committed to promoting robust standards, nationally and internationally, to protect consumer interests and to ensure that consumers have confidence in the food that they buy. We will consider the full range of tools at our disposal to uphold the UK’s commitment to high standards. That includes using our influence in the World Trade Organisation and other multilateral bodies to argue for better and fairer trading rules.

[Steve Witherden (Montgomeryshire and Glyndŵr) (Lab)]

8. What steps she is taking with Cabinet colleagues to help create new jobs in Wales.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Wales (Dame Nia Griffith)]

Our mission to kick-start economic growth will deliver good jobs and growth in Wales. Just last month, our international investment summit secured over £63 billion in private investment into the UK. Since July, we have secured over £1 billion of investment into north Wales, creating and sustaining 400 well-paid jobs in manufacturing.

[Steve Witherden]

The Secretary of State has said that economic growth is her No. 1 priority. Can the Minister say how the Budget’s confirmation of the investment zones will help contribute to that aim?

[Dame Nia Griffith]

The Budget includes a total of £320 million and a commitment for the investment zones in Cardiff and Newport and in Wrexham and Flintshire. This is a crucial part of our work with the Welsh Government to provide a rocket boost for sectoral strengths such as the creative industries, the life sciences and advanced manufacturing, including our world-leading compound semiconductor cluster.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

There is great potential for creating new jobs in wind energy and sea energy in Wales. We in Northern Ireland, and in Belfast in particular, have the engineering skills to provide the turbines for that energy production. Everyone would gain: Wales would get the jobs, and Northern Ireland would get the jobs as well.

[Dame Nia Griffith]

This Government are absolutely committed to economic growth across all parts of the United Kingdom.

The Prime Minister was asked—

[Mr Speaker]

I welcome the Leader of the Opposition and wish her well.

[Dame Caroline Dinenage (Gosport) (Con)]

Q1. If he will list his official engagements for Wednesday 6 November.

[The Prime Minister (Keir Starmer)]

I begin by congratulating President-elect Trump on his historic election victory. As the closest of allies, the UK and the US will continue to work together to protect our shared values of freedom and democracy. Having had dinner with President-elect Trump just a few weeks ago, I look forward to working with him in the years to come.

I also welcome the Leader of the Opposition to her place—my fourth Tory leader in four and a half years. I look forward to working with her in the interests of the British public.

This weekend is Remembrance Sunday, when people across the country will come together to pay solemn tribute to those who made the ultimate sacrifice in defending the values and freedoms that we enjoy today. I am sure the entire House will join me in paying tribute to them.

This morning, I had meetings with ministerial colleagues and others. In addition to my duties in this House, I shall have further such meetings later today.

[Dame Caroline Dinenage]

My constituent Suzanne is going to miss out on her winter fuel allowance this winter because she is just £10 above the pension credit threshold. As well as losing out on that vital money to keep her house warm, she does not get the £150 warm home discount, the £169 free TV licence or free NHS prescriptions. For the sake of a tenner, is this fair?

[The Prime Minister]

We introduced a Budget to fix the foundations of this country and to rebuild our country. One of the issues we had to confront was the £22 billion black hole left by the last Government. We have taken the tough decisions that will stabilise our economy. This means we can commit to the triple lock, which means that pensioners will be better off, seeing an increase in their pension, than they would have been under the Conservative party.

[Jacob Collier (Burton and Uttoxeter) (Lab)]

Q2. Every week I meet hard-working families in Burton and Uttoxeter who are juggling raising their children with managing their family finances. When they hear the Conservative party and its new leader say that maternity pay has “gone too far,” they are terrified about what that means for them. To ease the worry felt by thousands of hard-working families, will the Prime Minister please confirm that he has no plans to change maternity pay or to roll back the hard-won rights of working families?

[The Prime Minister]

I thank my hon. Friend for his question. He is a champion for families in his constituency. My answer is simple: yes. I do not agree with the Leader of the Opposition when she says that maternity pay is excessive and has gone too far.

[Mr Speaker]

I call the Leader of the Opposition.

[Mrs Kemi Badenoch (North West Essex) (Con)]

I thank the Prime Minister for his almost warm welcome. I echo the comments he has made. It is an immense privilege and the honour of my life to lead the Conservative party. I look forward to joining him at the Cenotaph this Remembrance Sunday.

As Leader of His Majesty’s Opposition, I will be taking a different approach to the last Opposition, by being a constructive Opposition, so I would like to start by congratulating President-elect Trump on his impressive victory this morning. The Prime Minister and the Foreign Secretary met him in September. Did the Foreign Secretary take that opportunity to apologise for making derogatory and scatological references, including

“Trump is not only a woman-hating, neo-Nazi-sympathising sociopath. He is also a profound threat to the international order”?

If he did not apologise, will the Prime Minister do so now, on his behalf?

[The Prime Minister]

There will be many issues on which the Leader of the Opposition and I disagree, but there will be issues that unite this House, on national security and Ukraine. I look forward to working closely with her on that. I will provide her with the information that she needs to discharge her duties. That is the right thing for the country and it is far more important than party politics. The Foreign Secretary and I did meet President-elect Trump, just a few weeks ago, for dinner, for about a couple of hours. We discussed a number of issues of global significance. It was a very constructive exercise.

[Mrs Badenoch]

The Prime Minister did not distance himself from the remarks made by the Foreign Secretary, and I am very sure that President Trump will soon be calling to thank him for sending all of those north London Labour activists to campaign for his opponent. Given that most of his Cabinet signed a motion to ban President Trump from addressing Parliament, will the Prime Minister show that he and his Government can be more than student politicians by asking the Speaker to extend—[Interruption.]

[Mr Speaker]

Order. Mr Perkins, I do not need any more. Your voice carries; it is like mine—too loud.

[Mrs Badenoch]

Will the Prime Minister show that he and his Government can be more than student politicians by asking you, Mr Speaker, to extend an invitation to President Trump to address Parliament on his next visit?

[The Prime Minister]

The Leader of the Opposition is giving a masterclass on student politics! But seriously, we live in probably a more volatile world than we have lived in for many decades. It is absolutely crucial that we have a strong relationship—that strong, special relationship, forged in difficult circumstances—between the US and the UK. We will continue to work, as we have done in our four months in government, on issues of security, our economy and global conflict.

[Mrs Badenoch]

The Prime Minister does not answer the questions; he just reads the lines the officials have prepared for him. It does not sound like he wants to invite President-elect Trump to Parliament. He needs to look after the special relationship. The US is our single biggest trade partner. Given the risk of increased tariffs on UK exports, which threatens our manufacturing sector, will the Prime Minister commit now to continuing the negotiations on our free trade agreement with the US, which the Biden Administration cancelled when they came into office?

[The Prime Minister]

Of course we will discuss issues of our economy with the President-elect, as we already have done. Economy, security and global conflict are issues of real significance that ought to unite this House. When it comes to the economy, what we have done with our Budget is to fix the foundations after 14 years, and return economic stability after the £22 billion black hole. We have protected the payslips of working people. We have made the single biggest investment in our country for a generation in the NHS, schools and homes. We have given a pay rise to the 3 million lowest paid. If the Leader of the Opposition is opposed to that investment or the pay rise for working people—she is a straight talker, as I understand it—perhaps she should say so.

[Mrs Badenoch]

Discuss, discuss, discuss; chat, chat, chat—the Prime Minister has no plans whatsoever for building on the special relationship. He needs to realise that we in this country rely on our single biggest trade partner. President Trump is also right to argue that Europe needs to increase its defence spending. The last Conservative Government committed to raising defence spending to 2.5% of GDP by 2030. Will the Prime Minister finally match that commitment?

[The Prime Minister]

There is no more important duty than keeping the people of this country safe. It was the Labour Government who signed the NATO treaty in the first place, and we are strong supporters. We have a strategic defence review, and we are committed to 2.5%. [Interruption.] I remind Conservative Members that the last time 2.5% was met was under the last Labour Government. Fourteen years, and they never did it once. Last year, the National Audit Office identified a £17 billion black hole in the Ministry of Defence finances. The former Defence Secretary said that the previous Government “hollowed out” the armed forces. The plan that the Conservatives put forward at the election was pure fantasy.

[Mrs Badenoch]

The Prime Minister will not make that commitment; that is very clear. All that he is doing —[Interruption.]

[Mr Speaker]

Order. I am going to hear the questions. If there are people who do not want to hear them, they can leave now.

[Mrs Badenoch]

The Prime Minister will not make that commitment, yet the world is getting more dangerous. His Chancellor’s Budget did not even mention defence. The Chancellor’s Budget last week was a copy and paste of Bidenomics. It turns out that a high-spending, high-borrowing and high-inflation approach is less popular than she may have thought. May I suggest that he now urges her to change course, or is he determined to be a one-term leader?

[The Prime Minister]

The one thing that I learned as Leader of the Opposition is that it is a good idea to listen to what the Government are actually saying. I think the right hon. Lady just said that defence was not mentioned in the Budget. It was seven days ago that it was absolutely clear and central to the Budget, as was economic growth. We are fixing the foundations. We are giving a pay rise to millions of people. We are picking up the mess that the Conservatives left, including the £22 billion black hole, and giving a pay rise to working people. I have not yet heard her welcome that pay rise for the 3 million lowest paid workers. Does she now welcome it, or does she stick to her previous policy that it is excessive?

[Mrs Badenoch]

I was the one who, as Business Secretary, raised the minimum wage last year; I have a strong record on this. We need to make sure that we balance the books. The Prime Minister’s scripted lines show that he has not even listened to the Budget himself, so I will try a different question. Perhaps he can give something that is unscripted to the people who are watching.

Farmers across the United Kingdom—[Laughter.] Mr Speaker—[Interruption.]

[Mr Speaker]

Order. I do not need any help. If anybody wants to leave, I will help them do that. I am going to hear the question, and I certainly want to hear the answer as well, so, please, let us have some courtesy.

[Mrs Badenoch]

We have heard the Prime Minister on television repeat the lines “fixing the foundations” and so on, over and over again, but what does he say to farmers who are facing uncertainty about their futures as a result of the increased taxes announced by the Chancellor? I am very clear that we would reverse Labour’s cruel family farms tax. [Hon. Members: “Reading!”] What can he say now to reassure the farming community —[Hon. Members: “Reading!”]—who provide security for the whole nation?

[The Prime Minister]

I am happy to help the Leader of the Opposition. If she is going to complain about scripted answers, it is probably best not to read that from a script! [Hon. Members: “More!”] I am glad that she raised the issue of farmers, because the Budget last week put £5 billion over the next two years into farming. That is the single biggest increase, unlike the £300 million underspend under the last Government. When it comes to inheritance, the vast, vast majority of farmers will be unaffected, as she and her party well know.

The Budget was about fixing the foundations, fixing the £22 billion hole that the Conservatives left and investing in the future of our country—investing in our NHS, our schools, our hospitals and our homes. I am proud that we are making that investment. If the Opposition oppose it, they should go out there and tell their constituents that they are against that investment in the future of our country. That is the difference: a Labour Government taking us forward; the Conservatives are stuck in the past.

[Hon. Members]

More!

[Mr Speaker]

Order. I want to hear Matthew Patrick.

[Matthew Patrick (Wirral West) (Lab)]

Q3. Emily left her ex, but the abuse did not stop. He stayed in their home, cancelled the mortgage contributions and destroyed her credit score. Now she cannot even take out a mobile phone contract. Surviving Economic Abuse and UK Finance have made progress in tackling this issue, but more has to be done. Will the Prime Minister and his Government work with me to introduce new provisions, so that we can restore the credit files for survivors of economic abuse like Emily?

[The Prime Minister]

I thank my hon. Friend for raising this really important issue. Economic abuse has a devastating impact on victims, leaving them vulnerable and isolated, and we are committed to ending this national emergency and keeping women safe from domestic abuse, harassment and stalking. That includes £200,000 this year for the charity Surviving Economic Abuse, and His Majesty’s Revenue and Customs has launched an online tool to help charities and businesses to identify and respond to economic abuse. I will make sure that my hon. Friend has a meeting with the relevant Minister.

[Mr Speaker]

I call the leader of the Liberal Democrats.

[Ed Davey (Kingston and Surbiton) (LD)]

I join the Prime Minister in his comments about Remembrance Sunday. We must always remember the brave British men and women who gave their lives for our country. I also join him in welcoming the Conservative leader to her place, and congratulate her on becoming the first black leader of a UK-wide party—a major and historic achievement.

President-elect Trump praised Vladimir Putin’s invasion of Ukraine. He called it “genius”. He also said that he would encourage Russia

“to do whatever the hell they want”

to NATO allies, so what action is the Prime Minister taking to encourage a Trump presidency to change its mind? Otherwise, it is a huge threat to global security, and national security in the UK. Does the Prime Minister agree that, if the US will not oppose President Putin and support our brave Ukrainian allies, the UK must lead in Europe, so that together we do?

[The Prime Minister]

I am very proud that in this House we are united on the question of Ukraine, and clear about Russian aggression, and we will continue to be so. I have long taken the view that the only winner if we are divided in this House is Putin, and I am not prepared to let that happen. Our relationship with the US is a strong relationship, forged in very difficult circumstances historically. It remains as strong today as it was when it was first forged, and I look forward to working with President-elect Trump to ensure that that relationship stays the special relationship.

[Ed Davey]

I am grateful for the Prime Minister’s comments on Ukraine, but Donald Trump has also said that “trade wars are good”. He calls himself “Tariff Man”. People are really worried that Trump’s trade wars and tariffs will damage our economy, damage businesses, and hit the cost of living here in the UK. Given that, does the Prime Minister recognise that it is more urgent than ever that we support our British economy by getting rid of the damaging trade barriers with Europe put in place by the Conservatives?

[The Prime Minister]

As the right hon. Member will know, we made the economy the centrepiece of our Budget, and we will do everything that we need to do to ensure that our economy grows, and that is measured in living standards going up for working people across the country.

[Alex Baker (Aldershot) (Lab)]

Q5. Many families across Aldershot and Farnborough have struggled for years to get their children with special educational needs the help that they need. It is therefore shameful to read the misguided claims made by the Leader of the Opposition that autistic people“may well get better treatment”and receive economic privileges and protections. Will the Prime Minister stand with the families of autistic children, and distance the Government from those awful words?

[The Prime Minister]

I will leave the Leader of the Opposition to respond to those words. As the recent National Audit Office report exposed, children with special educational needs and disabilities were being failed by the system under the previous Government. This has come up I think five times in the last two or three weeks at PMQs. It is clearly a serious issue. Our focus will be on ensuring that every child receives the right support to succeed in their education.

[Sorcha Eastwood (Lagan Valley) (Alliance)]

Northern Ireland is considered one of the most dangerous places in Europe to be a woman—24 women have been killed in the last four years—but one of the most dangerous places for women and girls is online. I pay tribute to Belfast and Lisburn Women’s Aid, which is tireless in its advocacy of women. What are the Government doing to keep women and girls safe online, not just in Lagan Valley but right across the United Kingdom?

[The Prime Minister]

The hon. Member is right to draw attention to that issue. Misogyny and abuse, both online and offline, cause horrendous harm to women and girls across the UK. I commend her for her honesty and bravery in speaking out about her own experiences, and for her dedication to creating safe spaces for women in her constituency. We must create a safer world online for women and girls through the Online Safety Act 2023, mitigating the risk of illegal content and activity that is abusive or incites hatred.

[Neil Coyle (Bermondsey and Old Southwark) (Lab)]

Q6. Everyone in Southwark will benefit from the positive measures in last week’s Budget, especially the thousands of people on minimum wage, who will get a real-terms increase to help themselves, their families and the economy. The new leader of the Tory party—this week’s leader—is on record as saying that she wants to scrap the minimum wage, having seemingly learned nothing from July. Will the Prime Minister pledge to protect the minimum wage and increase it in this Parliament as finances allow?

[The Prime Minister]

The previous Labour Government transformed the labour market with the national minimum wage. That was opposed by the Conservatives at the time, and sadly they do not seem to have changed. I was surprised by the comments of the Leader of the Opposition. I was surprised to see the new shadow Business Secretary say that the minimum wage was

“something that legislators pass to make themselves feel good.”

I disagree. I am very proud of the fact that this Labour Government have raised wages for 3 million low-paid workers, and I expect the Conservative party to welcome that.

[George Freeman (Mid Norfolk) (Con)]

Q4.   After 14 years shaping the UK’s long-term strategies for life sciences, agritech, fusion and space, I welcome the Government’s industrial strategy. However, too many of our great companies are being bought out by our competitors. To build the industries of tomorrow here, we need to unlock some of the hundreds of billions of pounds in UK pension funds in the City, only 3% of which are now investing in UK equities. With the new Lord Mayor making that a priority, and the Mansion House speech imminent, will the new Government commit to seeing through the previous Government’s reforms to unlock British capital for British research and development growth?

[The Prime Minister]

I thank the hon. Member for welcoming the industrial strategy. I know that this issue is close to his heart; he has spoken about and acted on it for many years. The Budget sees record R&D investment, with over £20 billion next year, including over £2 billion to support our world-leading life sciences sector. Through the British Growth Partnership, we will crowd in pension fund investment to support innovative business, and we have launched our landmark pensions review to unlock billions of pounds of investment into the UK and boost growth and living standards across the country.

[Catherine Fookes (Monmouthshire) (Lab)]

Q7. As the Chancellor said last week, we were left a toxic legacy by the previous Government, including rivers filled with polluted waste. Will the Prime Minister put the River Wye into special measures by designating it a water protection zone, and will he meet me and the excellent cross-border Wye Catchment Partnership to deliver its plan to clean up the Wye?

[The Prime Minister]

The River Wye is one of our most important and iconic rivers, and we are working closely with the Welsh Government on that pressing issue. The destruction of our waterways should never have been allowed. That is why we have launched a water commission to attract investment and speed up infrastructure delivery, and why we have introduced legislation to enable tougher penalties and severe fines to crack down on polluters. I will ensure that my hon. Friend gets a meeting with the relevant Minister.

[Mr Speaker]

I call the Father of the House.

[Sir Edward Leigh (Gainsborough) (Con)]

Q8. As a good lawyer, the Prime Minister will want to listen to the evidence, so if evidence mounts from experts and organisations such as the National Farmers Union that smaller family farms of average size—250 acres—will be severely impacted by the tax changes, will he, in a spirit of compromise, listen to that evidence, keep an open mind and perhaps be prepared to raise the threshold in order to preserve our family farms?

[The Prime Minister]

We are listening to farmers, and the Environment Secretary and Treasury Ministers met with the NFU on Monday. We have taken a fair and balanced approach: the vast, vast majority of farms will not be affected. What I will also say is that having grown up in a rural community, I know that rural communities also need an NHS that is back on its feet, schools that their children can go to and homes that their families can afford to live in, but we will continue to talk to the NFU and others.

[Mary Glindon (Newcastle upon Tyne East and Wallsend) (Lab)]

Q9. This week, the Leader of the Opposition told us that any outrage at suitcases full of wine and karaoke machines in Downing Street while people across the country were told to stay at home was all “overblown”. For the people and businesses in my constituency who followed the rules—many of us at great personal cost—this is an insult. Will the Prime Minister join me in ensuring that we as a country learn the lessons from covid, and that the Conservatives as a party learn the lessons of their behaviour too?

[The Prime Minister]

Across the country, people made enormous sacrifices during covid. They missed weddings, births and deaths—really important moments in their and their families’ lives. In doing so, they saved the lives of people they will probably never meet. That was a collective effort, and unfortunately the party opposite, who set the rules, did not follow them themselves. It was a betrayal of those who did, and I think the Leader of the Opposition was wrong to describe the public anger and upset as “overblown”. I am sure she will want to clarify that at the first opportunity.

[Mr Speaker]

I call Llinos Medi.

[Llinos Medi (Ynys Môn) (PC)]

Q12. Diolch, Llefarydd. Representatives of Glan Rhos nursing home in my constituency tell me that the Budget changes mean a 10% increase in their in-year costs—a staggering £127,500 extra. Will the Prime Minister reconsider the rise in employer national insurance?

[The Prime Minister]

What we did in last week’s Budget was ensure that no one would face tax rises in their payslip. We had to deal with the £22 billion black hole, but when we did so, we protected the smallest businesses and charities. We doubled the employment allowance to £10,500, meaning that 40% of employers will not pay employer national insurance contributions. Companies with four employees or fewer on the minimum wage will pay no employer NICs at all, and half of businesses that pay NICs will see no change or pay less after the Budget.

[Phil Brickell (Bolton West) (Lab)]

Q10.   My constituents were pleased to hear last week’s Budget prioritise investment in public infrastructure, including important projects such as the electrification of the Wigan to Bolton railway line, which will deliver more reliable and greener journeys. Does the Prime Minister agree that investment in the key infrastructure of towns such as Horwich, Westhoughton, Blackrod and Bolton is the only way to deliver economic growth and prosperity for all?

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend is a champion for the north-west, and the Budget secured investment for vital transport projects to transform connectivity across the north of England and drive economic growth. That includes completing the Wigan to Bolton electrification —a really important moment on Northern Powerhouse Rail. Over £5 billion has been allocated to support everyday journeys for working people. By restoring economic stability and increasing investment, we are taking our country forward.

[Victoria Collins (Harpenden and Berkhamsted) (LD)]

Q13. The Swan Youth Project in Berkhamsted is an incredible drop-in centre that intervenes to bring hope and a better future to teenagers such as Lex and Megan, who have been facing anxiety, depression and long mental health waiting lists, as well as families coping with special educational needs and disability. Its representatives have already written to the Treasury saying that they are worried about getting the funds they need, as our communities face a tough winter and grants are depleting. Parul, the manager, also assures me that she makes a mean curry and would welcome the Prime Minister, so will he join me to discuss their concerns and ensure that the Swan Youth Project and similar organisations in the third sector get the support they need as they work tirelessly for our communities?

[The Prime Minister]

The hon. Lady will be pleased to know that I have been to Berkhamsted a number of times, as we have very good friends who live there. I pay tribute to the work of the Swan Youth Project; too many young people—she cited some of them—are struggling with mental health and not receiving the support they need. That is why we will recruit an additional 8,500 mental health workers and are introducing long-overdue reforms to the Mental Health Act 1983. That is happening today. We will put more money into SEND, but we also need to look at reforming SEND, which I think and hope will be supported across the House. I will ensure that she gets a meeting with the relevant Ministers about that.

[Clive Lewis (Norwich South) (Lab)]

Q11. My right hon. Friend the Prime Minister will know that after 14 years of Tory ideological hostility and cuts, our universities are in financial meltdown. The University of East Anglia, in my constituency, is having to make redundancies, as are many others. Our right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Education has started to address the problem, but we need a long-term solution that does not simply saddle our young people with more debt. Can my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister say how we can move to fix the foundations of higher education as we go forward?

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend is right to raise higher education. We inherited a sector facing severe financial challenges. Universities have suffered a real-terms decline in their income and the gap between disadvantaged students and their peers is the highest on record. We have had to take tough decisions to put that on a secure footing, but we are also taking the step of easing living pressures by increasing maintenance loans, which is worth an extra £414 per year.

[Alex Brewer (North East Hampshire) (LD)]

Jo Hamilton, my constituent and a former sub-postmistress, has long campaigned with Alan Bates for compensation following the Horizon Post Office scandal. Can the Prime Minister give an exact timeframe in which those who have been waiting more than a decade might finally be compensated?

[The Prime Minister]

I am grateful to the hon. Lady for raising this important issue. A commitment was made to properly compensate the victims of this scandal. Unfortunately, the Conservative Government, having made that commitment, regrettably did not allocate any money. Her constituents will be pleased to know that we have changed the approach. We have set out the compensation within the Budget—a transparent, accountable Budget—and we will make the payments as soon as we can.

[Torcuil Crichton (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) (Lab)]

Q14. I echo the Prime Minister’s sentiments towards that other son of Lewis—although I wish that I had woken up today in the Isle of Harris. My constituents there face long delays, cancellations and loss of service because of the SNP’s incompetent handling of ferry procurement. In last week’s Budget the Scottish Government received a record settlement. May I urge the Prime Minister to tell Scottish Ministers to use that to improve public services in Scotland, to invest in the NHS in Na h-Eileanan an Iar, to build schools in places such as Barra and finally to fix the ferry fiasco?

[The Prime Minister]

Last week in the Budget we delivered the largest settlement for the Scottish Government in real terms since devolution. That includes £3.4 billion through the Barnett formula, a fuel duty freeze and an increase to the national living wage, benefiting my hon. Friend’s constituents and all those across Scotland. The result of the Budget is now clear. The SNP in power in Scotland have the powers and they now have the money, so they have no more excuses.

[Ben Obese-Jecty (Huntingdon) (Con)]

Does the Prime Minister think it is acceptable for a Back-Bench MP to suggest that the Leader of the Opposition represents “white supremacy in blackface” and is

“the most prominent member of white supremacy’s black collaborator class”,

with all the race traitor innuendo that that carries? If he does not, why has he not removed the Whip?

[The Prime Minister]

No, I do not.

[John Slinger (Rugby) (Lab)]

As a semi-retired violinist and rock musician asking a semi-retired multi-instrumentalist, I feel confident that the Prime Minister shares my belief in the importance of music education. Does he agree that, as we unleash the potential of our country, we must invest in the educational infrastructure of creative arts subjects so that they are accessible to all, and will he visit my constituency, to see the great work of the schools there despite the inheritance that we received?

[The Prime Minister]

I am not sure about the description “semi-retired”, although that may be the wish of the Conservative party. What I know from personal experience is that music, the creative subjects and art are really important not only for the pleasure and knowledge that they give to children and young people but for the experience of working in groups and leadership. That is why we are determined to ensure that they are counted as subjects again in the curriculum, which will encourage many more schools to provide them in the curriculum and enrich the futures of children and young people across the country.

[Mr James Cleverly (Braintree) (Con)]

Before the election, the Prime Minister claimed that he would not put up national insurance contributions; he put them up. Before the election, he claimed that he would scrap tuition fees; he put them up. Before the election, he said that he would not tax family farms; he is taxing them. Will he address his party’s growing reputation for dishonesty by making good on his commitment to close the Wethersfield asylum accommodation centre in my constituency?

[The Prime Minister]

We are keeping the promises that we made in our manifesto. The right hon. Gentleman’s problem is that he cannot add up; if he could, he might be down on the Front Bench rather than up on the Back Benches. We will take up the issue in his constituency.

[Douglas McAllister (West Dunbartonshire) (Lab)]

Monday marked the seven-year anniversary of my constituent Jagtar Singh Johal’s arbitrary detention in India. Can the Prime Minister assure me that he and his Government will do all they can to secure Jagtar’s immediate release and bring him home?

[The Prime Minister]

Yes. We are committed to pushing the Government of India on this important case. The Foreign Secretary has raised it and will continue to do so, and we will ensure that we speak to my hon. Friend as we do so.

[Mr Speaker]

That completes Prime Minister’s questions.

[The Leader of the House of Commons (Lucy Powell)]

On a point of order, Mr Speaker. Does the Leader of the Opposition want to correct the record, as she said in Prime Minister’s questions that the Chancellor did not mention defence spending in her Budget, yet the Chancellor mentioned it many, many times, including its allocation of £2.9 billion, which far exceeds our commitment?

[Mr Speaker]

It is not for me to correct the record—and that is not a point of order—but the right hon. Lady has done it.

Small Boat Crossings

Wednesday 6th November 2024 Commons Chamber

12:37

[Chris Philp (Croydon South) (Con)]

(Urgent Question): To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department to make a statement on the recent increase in dangerous, illegal and unnecessary channel crossings by small boat?

[The Minister for Border Security and Asylum (Dame Angela Eagle)]

For too long, smuggling gangs have been undermining our border security and putting lives at risk, which is why the new Government have made it a top priority to address the crisis we inherited. Let us be clear about what that crisis entailed: small boat crossings in the first half of the year at their highest point on record, and over 100,000 arrivals in the five years prior; over 200,000 cases stuck in the asylum system, costing the taxpayer billions in support; and £700 million spent on a gimmick that sent just four volunteers to Rwanda.

When we entered government, we said it was time for grip, not gimmicks, and that is exactly what we are delivering. Since July, we have established the border security command, headed by experienced police chief Martin Hewitt. In the King’s Speech, we set out our intention to bring forward legislation to give the border security system stronger powers to investigate and prosecute organised immigration crime. We are recruiting 100 new specialist agency and investigation officers at the National Crime Agency to target and dismantle the criminal networks behind this phenomenon. We have also announced an extra £75 million to bolster border security, bringing our investment in the border security command over the next two years to £150 million. This Government’s border security funding boost will go towards a range of enforcement and intelligence activities and capabilities including covert technology as well as hundreds of staff and specialist investigators as we crank up the pressure on the smuggling gangs.

This is an international problem requiring international solutions. Since the general election we have intensified co-operation with partners overseas. We recently struck a new anti-smuggling action plan with G7 partners and the Prime Minister and Home Secretary both attended the Interpol general assembly in Glasgow on Monday to press the case for a much stronger and more integrated global response to organised immigration crime.

As well as tackling the issue upstream, we have taken action to speed up decision making and stepped up returns of those with no right to be in this country. The result of all this action is 9,400 returns since this Government took office including a 19% increase in enforced returns and a 14% increase in returns of foreign national offenders.

Sticking plasters and gimmicks have failed. The smugglers and traffickers have been getting away with it for far too long. It is time to show them we are serious, not with words, but with action. The security of Britain’s borders is paramount and under this Government it always will be.

[Mr Speaker]

I call the shadow Leader of the House, Chris Philp.

[Chris Philp]

Shadow Home Secretary; thank you, Mr Speaker.

I am afraid the Government’s actions belie the reality. Since they came to office, 17,520 people have crossed the English channel, more than twice the number they have removed. That is one and a half times the number in the previous four months and 15% more than the same period last year. In October alone, last month, 5,417 people crossed, three times higher than in last October. Tragically, since this Government came to office 50 people have lost their lives or gone missing—more than in the previous 18 months put together—and, tragically, that includes 16 women and children.

This Government decided—they chose—to cancel the Rwanda scheme before it had even started. The first flight was due to take off, from memory, on 24 July but they cancelled it. Had they allowed that to go ahead and the scheme to continue, the deterrent effect would by now have started. We know it works, because it worked in Australia under its Operation Sovereign Borders about 10 years ago. We know the deterrent effect of returns works: it worked with Albania where we secured a 93% reduction in arrivals. Do not just take my word for it: the National Crime Agency said that law enforcement alone is not enough and we need an effective removal scheme to deter crossings. The Government’s announcements in Glasgow on Monday are simply not enough, and they repeat work that is under way already. The NCA and I are not the only ones saying that we need a returns deterrent. Just a few weeks ago, European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen encouraged member states to develop their own returns hubs outside the European Union. Will the Minister follow Ursula von der Leyen’s advice and urgently implement offshore processing?

May I also draw attention to the success that Belgium has had in stopping boats by the shore? Will the Minister ask France to do the same? Finally, because of their failings Labour are breaking their manifesto pledge to end hotel use, so will she pledge not to open any more hotels?

[Dame Angela Eagle]

I welcome the right hon. Gentleman —the shadow Home Secretary—to his new Front-Bench position. What a pleasure it is to be opposite him; I am going to look forward to jousting with him over the years.

On the Rwanda scheme, during the period from when it began to when we scrapped it, 83,500 people crossed in small boats. If that is a deterrent, the right hon. Gentleman has a peculiar view of the meaning of “deterrence” in the English language.

When I realised that we were doing this urgent question, I took the opportunity to look at the right hon. Gentleman’s record as a Home Office Minister. During his first stint at the Home Office—from September 2019 to 2021—23,849 people crossed the channel on small boats. During his second ministerial sojourn at the Home Office, 50,637 people crossed the channel in small boats, so his overall total is 74,486. In September 2020, the shadow Home Secretary answered an urgent question. He said that the last Government would

“not rest until we have taken the necessary steps to completely end these crossings.”—[Official Report, 2 September 2020; Vol. 679, c. 168.]

How did that go?

[Mike Tapp (Dover and Deal) (Lab)]

In 2018, 400 crossed the channel. Since then, more than 140,000 have crossed, the majority of them on the Conservatives’ watch. All they could introduce were ridiculous gimmicks, such as Rwanda, which cost taxpayers millions of pounds. Does the Minister agree that the new injection of cash into border security command is a better use of taxpayers’ money than the gimmicks that the Conservatives introduced?

[Dame Angela Eagle]

Yes, I agree wholeheartedly. The issue here is dealing with cross-border organised immigration crime. To do that, we have to talk to our international allies and co-operate with them across borders. That is exactly what the creation of the border security command will do, both operationally and politically, and we will see the results.

[Mr Speaker]

We now come to the Liberal Democrat spokesperson.

[Lisa Smart (Hazel Grove) (LD)]

I join the Minister in welcoming the new shadow Home Secretary to his place. Leading with the chin on the first full day in the job is an interesting approach, but if any situation highlights the manifest failings of the last Conservative Government, it is surely this. We in this House all want to stop the dangerous channel crossings. I am afraid that the last Government totally failed at that, so I am surprised we are discussing it today. The asylum backlog ballooned under the Tories. The human beings we are talking about who are in these small boats are often the victims of smuggling and trafficking gangs that profit from human suffering. Does the Minister agree that it is therefore imperative that we work in closer co-ordination than ever before with Europol and our French counterparts to smash these criminal networks? I urge the Government to address the root causes of the problem, not just the symptoms. We must empower the Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office to provide robust aid to regions in an increasingly unstable world.

[Dame Angela Eagle]

The hon. Lady is exactly right. This is not about gimmicks, or having a parallel immigration policy that is unconnected with any of the treaties we have signed or international law; it is about doing the day job, and making sure not to leave an inheritor Government a 200,000-person backlog by not doing the day job. The issue with small boat crossings is dealing with organised, internationally focused immigration crime, which often originates in countries very far away. To tackle this issue, we have to co-operate with the forces of law and order operationally, across borders, and that is what this Government are determined to do.

[Shaun Davies (Telford) (Lab)]

May I welcome the Government’s approach on this issue, and the 23% increase in enforced removals since last summer? I agree with the Minister that the way to deal with this issue is to smash the criminal gangs. I urge her to consider what attention she gives to the shadow Home Secretary who, when he was a Home Office Minister, imposed hotels on my constituency, and was the Chief Secretary to the Treasury for Liz Truss during the mini-Budget.

[Dame Angela Eagle]

The shadow Home Secretary’s record in office is a matter that we may well keep coming back to. I agree with the observations that my hon. Friend makes.

[Mr Speaker]

I call the Chair of the Select Committee.

[Dame Karen Bradley (Staffordshire Moorlands) (Con)]

Everybody in this House wants an end to small boat crossings and the risks that people take to cross the channel. The Minister has announced a number of measures this week. When does she expect those measures to start producing a reduction in crossings? Will she commit to keeping the Select Committee informed on progress?

[Dame Angela Eagle]

It is my first chance to congratulate the right hon. Lady on her election as Chair of the Select Committee. I look forward to coming before her Committee whenever she wishes to talk to me. The Department certainly wishes to keep her informed about what is going on.

There has been a significant shift in international co-operation, what with the G7 collaboration on smuggling and the dialogues of the European Political Community, of which there is a meeting tomorrow, at which we hope there will be some announcements. The Government have also been working on bilateral memorandums of understanding and action plans across Europe to achieve a step change in cross-border co-operation, which is the key to beginning to tackle the awful criminal smuggling activity.

[Chris Murray (Edinburgh East and Musselburgh) (Lab)]

In the five years before the election, I worked on preventing human trafficking in Scotland, including with many of the victims who came on small boat crossings. They have gone through the most appalling abuse that chills the soul. Does the Minister agree that public money is far better spent on smashing the gangs and freeing the victims than on a Rwanda plan that was never going to work?

[Dame Angela Eagle]

Yes, I agree profoundly with my hon. Friend, which is why the new Government have changed tack in this area. I am sure that we will see the results in due course.

[Suella Braverman (Fareham and Waterlooville) (Con)]

The Government have pledged millions of pounds to smashing the gangs, on top of the millions of pounds that we spent on stopping the boats. The Government have pledged more drones on the channel and to fast-track cases, just as we deployed drones on the channel and fast-tracked cases. The Government have set up a border security command, which sounds remarkably similar to the small boats operational command that we set up when in government. Other than scrapping the one thing that would have worked—that is, the deterrent—what have this Government done that is different that is actually going to stop the boats?

[Dame Angela Eagle]

First, the border security command is operationally completely different from the command on the channel, which is deliberately there to try to save life and find out what is going on on the water. Operationally, the border security command will co-operate across borders in a very different way. If I were the right hon. and learned Lady, I would not be boasting about the colossal morass of wasted expenditure that the Rwanda scheme represented—£700 million down the drain, with plans to spend nearly £10 billion on the plan over the next few years. It was a gross waste of money that did not deter a single boat crossing.

[Ms Polly Billington (East Thanet) (Lab)]

The gangs that run this vile trade care only for their profits, not for the lives that they put at risk. Will the Minister reassure the House and my constituents in East Thanet that the border security command will do everything to break the evil smuggling gangs and bring the ringleaders to justice?

[Dame Angela Eagle]

Yes; the point of the increase in operational co-operation across borders is that if we cannot bring people to justice in our jurisdiction, we can ensure that information is swapped in real time, so that they can be brought to justice in other jurisdictions. There will be a step change in that kind of international co-operation, which will deliver results.

[Mr James Cleverly (Braintree) (Con)]

Will the Minister describe clearly and unambiguously, without bluster, the difference in function between the border security command and the small boats operational command?

[Dame Angela Eagle]

The border security command is not focused only on channel crossings; it is much more about using our intelligence capabilities and our operational arm to co-operate across borders, with other jurisdictions and in real time, to ensure that organised criminal gangs can be tracked, apprehended and dismantled. We have given £150 million extra to the border security command to start to do that work. The command on the channel is about saving lives and co-operating with the French once people have reached the beaches. It is far too late once people have reached the beaches; we need to go far back to the origin countries, and do a lot more work there.

[Amanda Martin (Portsmouth North) (Lab)]

Will the Minister acknowledge the real concerns felt by people in the UK and in my city of Portsmouth about the small boat crossings? Does she agree that the 23% increase since last summer in enforced returns of people who have no right to be here shows what can be done when grown-ups are in the room, and when a Government focus on getting a grip?

[Dame Angela Eagle]

I absolutely agree with the points my hon. Friend made.

[Monica Harding (Esher and Walton) (LD)]

There are 120 conflicts globally, which, along with other factors such as poverty, food insecurity and the effects of climate change, cause populations to move. Does the Minister agree that, as my hon. Friend the Member for Hazel Grove (Lisa Smart) pointed out, it is essential that we look at the root causes of immigration? Does she therefore support an increase in the development and aid budget, rather than the cut in official development assistance in last week’s Budget?

[Dame Angela Eagle]

In the end, any work that we can do upstream, whether in respect of development or aid, will deal with some of the causes, some of which the hon. Lady rightly points out. We have to stay within the bounds set by the Budget, but I assure her that I regard prevention as much better than cure.

[Alistair Strathern (Hitchin) (Lab)]

This Government inherited a situation on our borders in which there was failure on all fronts. There were record numbers of tragic deaths in the channel, millions wasted on the failed Rwanda gimmick, and criminal gangs profiteering off exploiting our borders. Will the Minister reassure my constituents that, unlike the previous Government, we will not waste time on political gimmicks, but will focus on the practical measures that can bring an end to the persistence of these damning failures?

[Dame Angela Eagle]

I assure my hon. Friend that we will do exactly that. It is why we have seen a step change in returns since this Government took office. There have been 9,400 in that period, which includes a 19% increase in enforced returns and a 14% increase in returns of foreign national offenders. We will ensure that our immigration system has integrity.

[Pete Wishart (Perth and Kinross-shire) (SNP)]

Sometimes, when listening to the exchanges between Labour Front Benchers and the Conservatives, we can forget that we are dealing with real people who are fleeing the most unimaginable horrors. Aside from the bizarre Rwanda plan, why is the Minister continuing with the same failed approach as the Tories? The Government continue to spend millions on hotels, drones and various bits of high tech; how about trying something different? How about looking at safe and legal routes, in order to smash the gangs? And how about showing some compassion?

[Dame Angela Eagle]

I am not going to get into a competition with the hon. Gentleman about compassion. We have a duty to ensure that asylum seekers who come to our shores are properly processed and dealt with, and integrated in our society if asylum is granted. [Interruption.] Despite the hon. Gentleman chuntering away, I am not going to stand here and say that we will let people smugglers, who exploit people for money, decide who comes to our country. We have to stop this trade; that is not at odds with treating those who arrive here with compassion.

[Jo White (Bassetlaw) (Lab)]

When I stood for election on 4 July this year, my commitment to my voters was that we would smash the criminal gangs and stop the small boats. At that point, the number of small boat crossings was 6% higher than in the worst ever year, 2022. Does the Minister welcome the data that shows that the number is now 9,000 lower than in 2022?

[Dame Angela Eagle]

Yes, but the House has to have patience. There are no magic wands to wave in this policy area, and there are no fantasy policies now that we have got rid of the Rwanda scheme. There is hard, day-to-day operational work to try to get the system that we inherited—which is in complete chaos, with huge backlogs—back into some kind of order, so that we can run it properly, fairly and efficiently. That is what we are focusing on.

[Mr Andrew Snowden (Fylde) (Con)]

I recently listened to an interview with a retired former inspector of borders and immigration, who was responding to the Government’s announcements. He outlined his concerns about the impact of the measures on their own, without an effective deterrent, and about how the Government will measure their success—the percentage or volume by which they want to see small boat crossings reduced after the announcements. What percentage reduction in small boat crossings would the Government view as success?

[Dame Angela Eagle]

I am not getting into a numbers game in the House. We are trying to deal with and dismantle a trade that was allowed to become established and industrialised on the previous Government’s watch. I am not going to stand here and say, “It’ll happen overnight,” but we will make progress.

[Fred Thomas (Plymouth Moor View) (Lab)]

Folks in Plymouth are really interested in how the Government will solve this big problem. They will welcome the increase in money towards dealing with the problem and the increase in returns. Another thing they want is constructive, lively debate with ideas in this place. Unfortunately, the Opposition seem so devoid of ideas that they will bang on for another four years about their landmark Rwanda policy to stop the boats—a failed scheme that got firmly rejected by the electorate. Does the Minister agree that the first sign of insanity is trying the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result?

[Dame Angela Eagle]

Yes.

[Rupert Lowe (Great Yarmouth) (Reform)]

In the Home Office annual report, it is confirmed that in 2022-23 £3 billion was spent on hotel costs for illegal migrants, averaging £8 million a day. The cruel inheritance tax assault on British family farms and businesses is estimated eventually to raise £520 million a year. Do the Labour Government need to rethink their spending priorities urgently?

[Dame Angela Eagle]

No. We have just had a Budget, which we are in the middle of debating and will be voting on, and I expect that that will be the way we go forwards.

[Melanie Onn (Great Grimsby and Cleethorpes) (Lab)]

The 23% increase in returns of people who have no right to be here is a really positive step in giving the public confidence in our systems. What measures are in place to continue to ensure that our processes remain robust and that the trajectory of returns continues?

[Dame Angela Eagle]

We are ensuring that the enforcement part of the Home Office that deals with returns is given the resources it needs to do that job, but to make it even more successful, we have to engage with those countries to which we wish to return people so that we can have papers issued. Again, the significant shift in international co-operation is what will deliver that.

[Dr Andrew Murrison (South West Wiltshire) (Con)]

If Rwanda was a gimmick, why are Germany, Austria, Bulgaria, Cyprus, the Netherlands, Poland and Romania looking at similar schemes? Given the number of crossings and deaths in the channel, would it not, with hindsight, have been wise at least to have allowed the Rwanda scheme a trial run?

[Dame Angela Eagle]

Those countries are not considering a Rwanda scheme; they are all saying that they will stay within the confines of international law. The Rwanda scheme definitely tore up international law, and it was planned to spend nearly £10 billion up until 2027 on trying to remove 250 people a week from this country, and to spend nearly £3 billion on extra detention camps for them in this country. I do not think that represents British values or good value for money.

[Laurence Turner (Birmingham Northfield) (Lab)]

Given that only 3% of people who arrived by small boats between 2018 and June 2024 have been returned, a period of reflection from the Conservative party on this issue would be welcome. Does the Minister agree that a Government who have dispensed with gimmicks and who focus on the day job are delivering that progress on returns?

[Dame Angela Eagle]

Yes, but let us not underestimate the fact that under the Illegal Migration Act 2023 nobody who arrived in that way could be processed, so 118,000 people are waiting to be processed because the previous Government stopped the system dead. We have to get the processing system going again—that is what we are doing—so that we can get the flow of decisions, return those who are not entitled to be here and integrate those who are entitled to stay.

[Sir Julian Lewis (New Forest East) (Con)]

The Government have a mandate for trying out their approach, and I wish them well. I have always felt that unless the boats are intercepted and turned back near the start of their journey, nothing will deter people from using that method. Will the Minister, whom I respect greatly, explain how it is possible to smash gangs who operate in other jurisdictions once they get to the point where they withdraw their headquarters to countries where there is no possibility of co-operation with the authorities in charge of those states?

[Dame Angela Eagle]

Well, getting to that level of withdrawal would be a fantastic development that would put incredible pressure on many of the supply lines currently being used; if we could get to that stage, we would have already made significant progress. The answer to what the right hon. Gentleman is talking about is international co-operation to put the maximum pressure on this terrible international trade in human lives and exploitation. I am glad that he is giving me a little bit of time to prove that we can make a difference.

[Sarah Coombes (West Bromwich) (Lab)]

People in West Brom are appalled by these criminal smuggling gangs. Does the Minister agree that the last Government wasted £700 million on the totally failed Rwanda scheme? Could she set out how the new Government are going to fix the situation?

[Dame Angela Eagle]

Yes, and the repurposing of some of that money and resource that has not been lost is funding the new approach.

[Shockat Adam (Leicester South) (Ind)]

Does the Minister agree that the loss of life is colossally too high on these channel crossings, including the loss of a two-year-old child just the other week? Does she also agree that we should reopen safe routes so that we can treat those coming to this country with the dignity and respect that they deserve?

[Dame Angela Eagle]

I do not believe that safe routes would stop people from attempting to come over the channel in small boats. I have some sympathy with the idea of safe routes, but I do not think they would stop this trade. For example, 1,500 Indians came across, and we have a visa regime with the Indians. The highest nationality for small boat arrivals this year is the Vietnamese. Again, it is not always about people who are asylum seekers coming over; it is people who do not have a right to be here but are paying to come here. Safe routes would not solve that problem.

[Mark Ferguson (Gateshead Central and Whickham) (Lab)]

The shadow Home Secretary referred to the lives lost in the channel—every single one of them is a tragedy —but does the Minister agree that his trying to make a political point about those deaths, as he appeared to do, is beneath the Conservative party, as were gimmicks such as the Rwanda scheme?

[Dame Angela Eagle]

Yes, I agree. The loss of life in the channel this year has been the highest on record, and that is because more pressure is being put on the gangs, the boats are being overloaded and there is more anarchy on the beaches in France. Those are all things that we have to try to deal with in co-operation with our French colleagues.

[Wendy Morton (Aldridge-Brownhills) (Con)]

My constituents want to see an end to the small boat crossings and an end to the use of hotels for asylum seekers—as pledged in the Government’s manifesto. Will the Minister undertake to ensure that, where hotels have seen asylum seekers moved out, more are not put back in?

[Dame Angela Eagle]

The issue with hotels and other dispersal accommodation is that we have inherited a backlog. Owing to the way in which the Conservatives ran the system, there was no processing of asylum seekers, who then had to be put up in hotels. Hotels are temporary, not a solution. We will do our best to get out of dealing with hotels as quickly as possible by getting the system up and running and processing those who are making claims, so that we can get them either approved and integrated or returned.

[Alex Ballinger (Halesowen) (Lab)]

The Government came to power this year in the worst year on record for small boats crossings, which were 6% higher than in the previous record year of 2022. That was the legacy of chaos left by the last Government. There is no room for complacency, but does the Minister agree that we should be welcoming the now 20% lower level of small boats crossings this year compared with 2022?

[Dame Angela Eagle]

I agree that the first six months of this year were the worst on record. There were then a quiet three months, and now there has been a huge increase, not least because of benign weather conditions. I do not want to get into monthly figures. We need to bear down on the organised criminality that is perpetrating the trade, to disrupt it and deal with it that way.

[Jeremy Corbyn (Islington North) (Ind)]

Does the Minister recognise the distinct lack of humanity about this urgent question and the discussions surrounding small boats and migration? Does she not recognise that those people who risk all to get into those very dangerous boats and cross the chancel are doing so in an act of desperation? The lack of a safe routes system across Europe has created a market for people traffickers. Instead of the current approach, does she not think it necessary to look seriously at safe routes for asylum seekers, to avoid the tragedy of all these deaths in the channel and, for that matter, in the Mediterranean?

[Dame Angela Eagle]

I said earlier that safe routes would not stop all the channel crossings. There is now an industrialised system run by organised immigration criminals. The Vietnamese would never have a safe route into the UK—there is no visa system—yet they now comprise 20% of the people crossing on small boats. With all due respect to the right hon. Gentleman, I do not think that safe routes would solve the problem.

[Jessica Toale (Bournemouth West) (Lab)]

The last Government were responsible for an asylum backlog so large that they ended up spending millions of pounds of taxpayers’ money every day on asylum hotels, including in my constituency. As the Minister said, we are now dealing with that legacy, and I welcome her statement. Does she agree that we will take no lessons from the Conservative party, and that we will continue to make progress towards our manifesto commitment to bring down the backlog and end hotel use?

[Dame Angela Eagle]

I could not have put it better myself.

[Gregory Stafford (Farnham and Bordon) (Con)]

I think there is unanimity in the House that this is a moral issue. When I raised the issue of deterrence with the Home Secretary at her last statement on 22 July, she seemed to agree that we needed a deterrent. Since then, the Government do not seem to have brought forward any specific deterrence. If not the Rwanda scheme, will the Minister look at the schemes that other European nations are considering to see whether we can deter the small boat crossings?

[Dame Angela Eagle]

The way to deter the small boat crossings is to deal with those who are organising and profiting from that immoral trade. That is what we are doing.

[Connor Naismith (Crewe and Nantwich) (Lab)]

The shadow Home Secretary, the right hon. Member for Croydon South (Chris Philp), and Conservative Members are still banging the drum for the failed Rwanda gimmick. Does the Minister agree that if the previous Government were so confident that that policy would work, they would not have called an election before that theory could be put to the test?

[Dame Angela Eagle]

My hon. Friend makes an intriguing point, given that Conservative Members have said repeatedly that they were about to start the Rwanda scheme the week after the election, and that all of a sudden it would work and be perfect—after 83,500 people crossed in small boats knowing that the scheme was legislated for and in place. I suspect, somehow, that the date of the election might have had a bit to do with the fact that they realised the Rwanda scheme would fail.

[Lee Anderson (Ashfield) (Reform)]

The Minister is claiming credit for an increase in deportations of people with no right to be in this country. I want an approximate figure, please, of how many of the 9,400 people who have been sent back since the Labour Government came in arrived here in small boats since 2018?

[Dame Angela Eagle]

Given that the Conservative party processed virtually nobody who came over in a small boat, they are still in the asylum backlog that we are attempting to deal with.

[Laura Kyrke-Smith (Aylesbury) (Lab)]

I am pleased to see this Government taking swift action to tackle the small boats crisis, including scrapping the Rwanda scheme, which was not only ludicrously expensive but inhumane and ineffective. Will the Minister confirm that it is possible to manage our borders in a way that is both effective and humane, and that we will do that?

[Dame Angela Eagle]

That is certainly the balance that this Government are aiming to achieve.

[Sir Ashley Fox (Bridgwater) (Con)]

The Minister has said that her policy to smash the criminal gangs will reduce the number of migrants crossing the channel. Can she give the House her estimation of when that policy will start to work?

[Dame Angela Eagle]

I said in an earlier answer that there are no magic wands in this area. Tough operational processing and international co-operation will begin to bear down on this, and work by the National Crime Agency and by prosecutorial authorities, often cross-border in different jurisdictions. The fact that we have made such a good start with international co-operation and the significant shift in attention here will bear down on this, but I will not stand at this Dispatch Box and pretend that there is an easy timeframe or answer for when that will have the effect that we all want it to have. We will bear down on it and we will make progress.

[Steve Yemm (Mansfield) (Lab)]

At a time of highly stretched resources right across Government, thanks to the mess in the public finances left by the Conservative party, my constituents will be pleased that £75 million has been secured for further investment in the Border Security Command. Does the Minister agree that it is a far better use of taxpayers’ money than paying people to go to Rwanda or housing them in hotels at great expense?

[Dame Angela Eagle]

Yes, it is advisable to try to deal with the immediate causes of the problem—organised immigration criminality—as well as bearing down on the longer-term causes, which often are about political stability in other areas of the world.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I thank the Minister for her answers. I want to take a slightly different look. I welcome the fact that smugglers will now be treated using terrorism powers, as it is my firm belief—and the belief of this House, I think—that the continued abuse of the asylum system is tantamount to an invasion. Can the Minister assure us that those who come across the Northern Ireland border will also be subject to the terrorism provisions?

[Dame Angela Eagle]

A border security Bill will be introduced. Perhaps the hon. Gentleman will want to serve on the Committee, so that he can be certain that the points he just made are accurately reflected by the Government in that Bill.

[Luke Myer (Middlesbrough South and East Cleveland) (Lab)]

One of the most colossal failures under the previous Government was the chaos in the channel and the associated backlog in the system, yet the Conservatives seem to have come here today to tell the British people that they had it all under control. Can the Minister reassure my constituents of the serious steps she is taking to disrupt the gangs, speed up returns and end this chaos.

[Dame Angela Eagle]

Yes, my hon. Friend’s constituents can be assured that a great deal of work is going on and more resources are being applied. A lot more intelligence is being gathered, much of which cannot be discussed publicly. We are on it.

[Kevin McKenna (Sittingbourne and Sheppey) (Lab)]

I strongly welcome the Government’s focus on tackling the root causes of organised crime behind the small boats, rather than the gimmicks of the previous Government. Across Kent, the criminal gangs are fuelling a rise in organised crime, and in my constituency that is pushing up rural crime, street crime and antisocial behaviour. Will my hon. Friend ensure that the new Border Security Command works closely with Kent police to deal with the effects across the whole of Kent and the wider country?

[Dame Angela Eagle]

I can give my hon. Friend that assurance. Some areas have suffered particular pressure from this phenomenon over the years, and Kent is one of them, so I am acutely aware of the pressure that he and the local authorities in that area are under.

[Dave Robertson (Lichfield) (Lab)]

Over the past 14 years, the Conservative party saw this issue become a growing crisis. Conservative Members have spoken much today about how we need a deterrent, but does the Minister agree that, for someone who is willing to get into a vessel of questionable seaworthiness to cross one of the busiest shipping lanes on the planet, a 3% chance of a trip to Kigali is not a deterrent? The only way of getting a handle on this is to go back to where the problem originates. Waiting for people to get to the channel is delaying the response and creating the crisis that the Conservatives oversaw.

[Dame Angela Eagle]

I agree very much with my hon. Friend’s observations, and so do the figures. Between the date of the announcement of the Rwanda scheme and the date of the last general election, 83,500 people came across in small boats. [Interruption.] The right hon. Member for Croydon South (Chris Philp) says that it had not started then. The Conservatives began by saying that Rwanda would be a deterrent when their Bill was published, and then every time it made no difference, they took it back and said, “It will work, it will work.” It would never have worked. It cost £700 million, and they had budgeted—but not budgeted—for nearly £10 billion of expenditure by the end of that scheme.

[John Slinger (Rugby) (Lab)]

Given that at the end of 2022, under the last Conservative Government, the asylum backlog had reached 166,261, an elevenfold increase in 12 years, does my hon. Friend agree that Conservative Members—who are very small in number for their own urgent question—are exhibiting a high degree of audacity?

[Dame Angela Eagle]

They are indeed, and perhaps they should also be reminded that returns collapsed on their watch as well.

Personal Statement

Wednesday 6th November 2024 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

Order. Before I call the hon. Member for Ashfield (Lee Anderson) to make his personal statement, I remind the House that such statements should be heard in silence and without interruption.

13:21

[Lee Anderson (Ashfield) (Reform)]

With permission, Mr Speaker, I will make a personal statement, in compliance with the findings of the Independent Expert Panel in its report. I accept the findings of the panel and the Parliamentary Commissioner for Standards in full and without reservation.

On 23 November 2023, at the Derby Gate entrance, I was involved in an incident with a security guard. During the incident, I spoke to the complainant in a manner that was totally unacceptable, and which including swearing and other language that goes against the House of Commons bullying and harassment policy.

I would like to apologise to the complainant and to the House for my behaviour. Our security staff do an incredible job and should always be treated with the utmost respect. An MP’s behaviour must always be of a higher standard. I give you, Mr Speaker, and the House my firm assurance that I have learnt significant lessons through this process, and a firm undertaking that such behaviour on my part will never happen again.

[Mr Speaker]

I thank the hon. Member.

Points of Order

Wednesday 6th November 2024 Commons Chamber

13:22

[John McDonnell (Hayes and Harlington) (Ind)]

On a point of order, Mr Speaker. Have you received any notice of a statement from the Government? I know that a number of Members have written to the Foreign Secretary, in particular, about the case of the writer and human rights activist Alaa Abd el-Fattah, who has served five years in an Egyptian prison for organising human rights protests. He was meant to be released in September but has still not been. His mother, Laila, has now been on hunger strike for four weeks, and many of us are concerned about the risk to her life. If a statement is not forthcoming, perhaps those on the Treasury Bench could urge the Government to make firm representations to Egypt to release Mr Abd el-Fattah.

[Mr Speaker]

The right hon. Gentleman is in danger of answering his own point of order. I have received no notification of a statement, but I am sure that those on the Treasury Bench will have taken his point on board. Let me also say to him that I know he will not rest there on this matter; that he will use all other avenues available to him ensure that the profile of the case is raised—I would expect nothing else.

[Zarah Sultana (Coventry South) (Ind)]

On a point of order, Mr Speaker. This concerns the lack of response to my cross-party correspondence addressed to the Foreign Secretary, the Secretary of State for Business and Trade, and the Defence Secretary, dated 13 September 2024. In that letter I, along with 36 parliamentary colleagues, requested clarification on the Government’s decision to exempt offensive F-35 fighter jet components from the 30 out of 350 licences that they have suspended for items that could be used in Israel’s genocidal assault on Gaza, as there is a clear risk that they may be used to commit or facilitate a serious violation of international humanitarian law. Given the significance of the issue and its implications for the UK’s international obligations, it is imperative that MPs receive a comprehensive response. Having to wait two months for a reply raises questions—

[Mr Speaker]

Order. I have absolutely got the point of order. Obviously, this is not my responsibility, but I take it seriously if any Member of this House writes to the Government and does not receive a timely reply. I am here to defend whoever the correspondence is from and ensure that they receive a reply. I am entirely convinced that those on the Front Bench will have heard what has been said and will already be looking to get that reply. If not, the hon. Lady should inform me and we will raise it again. I thank her for her point of order.

Bills Presented

Financial Assistance to Ukraine Bill

Presentation and First Reading (Standing Order No. 50)

Darren Jones, supported by the Prime Minister, James Murray, Tulip Siddiq and Emma Reynolds, presented a Bill to make provision for loans or other financial assistance to be provided to, or for the benefit of, the government of Ukraine.

Bill read the first time; to be read a second time on Monday 11 November, and to be printed (Bill 48) with explanatory notes (Bill 48-EN).

Armed Forces Commissioner Bill

Presentation and First Reading (Standing Order No. 57)

Secretary John Healey, supported by the Prime Minister, Secretary Angela Rayner, the Chancellor of the Exchequer, Secretary Yvette Cooper, Secretary David Lammy, Secretary Hilary Benn, Secretary Ian Murray, Secretary Jo Stevens, Dan Jarvis, Maria Eagle and Luke Pollard presented a Bill to establish, and confer functions on, the Armed Forces Commissioner; to abolish the office of Service Complaints Ombudsman; and for connected purposes.

Bill read the first time; to be read a second time on Monday 11 November, and to be printed (Bill 124) with explanatory notes (Bill 124-EN).

Child Criminal Exploitation (No. 2) Bill

Presentation and First Reading (Standing Order No. 57)

Victoria Atkins presented a Bill to create an offence of child criminal exploitation; and for connected purposes.

Bill read the first time; to be read a second time on Friday 29 November 2024 and to be printed (Bill 75).

Horticultural Peat (Prohibition of Sale)

Wednesday 6th November 2024 Commons Chamber

Motion for leave to bring in a Bill (Standing Order No. 23)

18:19

[Sarah Dyke (Glastonbury and Somerton) (LD)]

I beg to move,

That leave be given to bring in a Bill to provide for the prohibition of the sale in England of horticultural peat by the end of 2025; to provide for certain exemptions from that prohibition; and for connected purposes.

Let me begin by paying tribute to the right hon. Theresa Villiers, the former Member for Chipping Barnet, who previously worked hard to bring this Bill through Parliament, and by thanking Rebecca Pow, the former Member for Taunton Deane, who also endeavoured to secure a ban on the sale of peat.

Somerset is one of only two counties in England where peat extraction still takes place. The Somerset levels and moors are the second largest area of lowland deep peat in England, containing 11 million tonnes of carbon. However, drained deep peat is a major source of greenhouse gas emissions and, along with peat extraction, could be responsible for as much as 255,000 tonnes of CO₂ per year, according to a 2023 report published by eftec. Somerset’s peatlands are extremely rare and valuable habitats for wildlife. They are the perfect place for plants such as the sundew and the marsh violet, which in turn support invertebrates and bird populations.

Banning the sale of peat and protecting our peatlands both at home and abroad is crucial. I say “abroad” because we offshore most of our peatland emissions by importing about 60% of the peat used in horticulture in the UK. All the major parties agree with the proposal for a ban. The Liberal Democrats have pledged to restore peatlands and ban the use of horticultural peat, Labour’s 2024 manifesto promised to expand nature-rich habitats such as peat bogs, and the last Conservative Government made several attempts, despite failing to ban peat in their 14 years in office.

In 2011, the previous Government said that they wanted to reduce the amount of peat in compost voluntarily by 2020, but as the amount of peat fell by only a quarter in the subsequent years, the threat of legislation was introduced. A consultation by the last Government also revealed how popular a ban was, with 95% of respondents favouring a ban on retail peat by the end of the last Parliament. However, no legislation has been introduced that would ensure a ban on selling peat, so a vast amount of uncertainty remains in the industry today.

I want to be absolutely clear how important it is that the horticultural industry is considered and consulted before any legislation seeking to ban peat is introduced. But banning horticultural peat is the right thing to do, and that is already supported by a vast number of people in the industry, and, if done correctly, will bring huge opportunities for British horticulture. In September this year, professional growers, gardeners, nursery owners, compost manufacturers, retailers and supporters of peat-free horticulture wrote to the Prime Minister demanding a sale ban. The signatories included B&Q, Co-op supermarkets, Chris Beardshaw, Alys Fowler, Chris Packham, the Soil Association, the National Trust, the Wildlife Trust, CPRE, Evergreen Garden Care, Vitacress and the Royal Horticultural Society, to name just a few.

I recently visited Durston Garden Products, just outside Street, which is the largest manufacturer of growing media in southern England. It produces 6 million bags a year, and it supports a ban on the sale of peat. Three quarters of the bags that Durston currently produces are peat free; five years ago, the figure was just one quarter. That is because Durston, like most of the industry, took the previous Government at their word when they committed to banning the sale of peat. Durston has done what it believed was the right thing for the business and for the environment, and it has put in the time, effort and money to develop alternative growing media that can outperform peat. As it stands, however, the investment that Durston has made to prepare for a peat-free market has been for nothing.

Britain is a gardening nation. In fact, there are 30 million gardeners in the country, and 70% of them are interested in gardening more sustainably. The positive reaction to my Bill being announced demonstrates the feeling in the industry. The chair of the Growing Media Association, Simon Blackhurst, told the industry’s main trade magazine, Horticultural Week, that there is currently an “unfair commercial landscape”, as

“peat based growing media is cheaper than peat free.”

Southern Trident’s Steve Harper said:

“There really is no argument for delaying a retail peat ban”.

Floralive’s Sean Higgs said:

“Everyone is expecting it now (or believes it’s already in place)—to reverse would be counterproductive to the industry and undermine it on several counts.”

There are many fantastic examples of businesses moving towards being peat free. One such business is Kelways in Langport, in my constituency, which no longer sells compost containing peat and understands the shift that needs to take place. Moving towards being peat free would help the Government to achieve their aim of moving towards a circular economy. Peat-free compost manufacturers want to keep supply chains close to home, and some, such as Miracle-Gro, have their own on-site waste processors to produce compost. Others have partnerships with local forestry and wood processing businesses. RocketGro in Somerset processes digestate, a by-product of sustainable energy, into peat-free compost.

Advances in technology are clear evidence of the success of peat-free alternatives. The Royal Horticultural Society is set to be 100% peat free by the end of 2025, and is now at the end of a second successful year of trials funded by the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs. The RHS has grown millions of plants peat free in partnership with eight major wholesale growers, and developed practices to help the wholesale industry transition smoothly. By ending the use of horticultural peat at home, we can reduce our reliance on foreign, imported plants grown in peat, and support British peat-free growers. I am fully aware that any ban would require exemptions, time for businesses to transition, and support from the Government to help businesses move forward, but setting dates in stone through legislation would remove the uncertainty that is damaging the industry and reducing opportunities.

I turn to the impact that a ban on peat would have on peatland. Peat grows at a rate of 1 mm per year but can degrade by 1 cm per year if it is in bad condition, which, sadly, is the case for 86% of our peatlands. As I touched on earlier, they are amazing and rare habitats. Given our current knowledge of the damage that peat extraction does to nature, the environment and the land around us, there is simply no excuse for not changing course. Somerset faces ever more devastating flooding every winter, and the degradation and destruction of our peatlands does little to worsen its impact by reducing peatland’s ability to absorb excess rainwater and act as a natural flood defence, as an intact peat bog would do. Whereas preventing the sale of peat opens up opportunities for world-beating peat alternatives, stopping peat extraction opens up opportunities for peat restoration, such as creating new jobs by reskilling the existing workforce to use their expertise in managing peatlands for restoration.

The destruction of these precious, important and beautiful habitats must stop. As many experts, the public and politicians alike have outlined, we must not miss our chance. I urge the House to support this Bill today and ensure that we take the steps that would prevent the release of thousands of tonnes of carbon, help us move towards a circular economy, open up opportunities for British horticulture and protect precious peatlands.

13:35

[Sir Christopher Chope (Christchurch) (Con)]

I am not going to oppose the right of the hon. Member for Glastonbury and Somerton (Sarah Dyke) to bring in a Bill, because I believe in the right of Members to bring forward whatever Bills they want. Most of them are ill conceived, and I have spent much of my time in this place attacking Bills that would have unintended consequences. I think the hon. Lady’s Bill will fit into the category of Bills that have good intentions, but would have unacceptable unintended consequences.

It will not go unnoticed that this Bill is a full-frontal attack on British horticulture, and that it is being promoted by none other than the Liberal Democrats. The hon. Lady referred to the previous Bill, which I spoke against on 16 April. It is a salutary reminder of the work of democrats in this country that none of the 12 Members of this House who supported that Bill is still a Member of the House—the electorate gave their verdict on the ill-conceived support for it. I am delighted to say today that a number of my new and not so new colleagues have said to me, “Why can’t you divide the House and oppose this Bill?” I say to them, including my hon. Friends the Members for Rutland and Stamford (Alicia Kearns) and for Mid Buckinghamshire (Greg Smith), that we should allow the Liberal Democrats to stew in their own juice and bring forward their Bill, so that it can be criticised and never reach the statute book.

One would have thought from the remarks of the hon. Member for Glastonbury and Somerton that she was a supporter of the Horticultural Trades Association. Yesterday, the association ran an event in this House, and so many people attended that the free indoor plants on offer were all scooped up about halfway through. If the hon. Lady went to collect her free plants, she obviously missed the opportunity to talk to representatives of the association, who believe that her proposals would completely undermine British horticulture. What is most important—the HTA makes this point—is that we should have a level playing field with European growers.

We want to grow more trees. Too few trees are being home-grown, and too many of them are being imported. Likewise, we want to promote garden products, but too many of them are being imported. A very large proportion are being imported from Holland, because, far from having a peat-free environment, Holland is the fastest-growing export market for peat coming into our country. Holland is also one of the largest importers and exporters of peat, and it gets a lot of its peat from Germany, Estonia, Belgium, Latvia and Sweden.

The Dutch use peat to make horticultural products, which are then sold into our market because those products are more acceptable to consumers, not least because they tend to last longer, as peat is a substance that enables plants to retain moisture and water a lot longer than products that are peat free, such as coir. Some of the people who promote peat-free products do not seem to realise, when they talk about coir as a substitute, that it is produced mainly in the far east, particularly in Sri Lanka, and that it has to be washed and de-salted before it can be prepared for horticultural use and then has to be transported halfway across the world. That is not an ecologically friendly way of producing a peat substitute.

There is another dimension to the issue of peat. What proportion of it is used in horticulture? It is a very small proportion. I am told that about 95% of the peat consumed in the world is used for peat fires. It is put into domestic boilers and mega-incinerators or used as a substitute for coal or even natural gas. By concentrating on just one aspect of the use of peat, in horticulture, we are ignoring the much larger problem of the burning of peat for fuel. I have looked up how easy it is to buy peat for fuel in this country, and the latest information is that I could get a pallet of 10 or so bags of peat delivered to my home for £260. That peat comes from exactly the same source as peat for agriculture. Why are we having a go at the use of peat in horticulture and agriculture when we could be dealing with the much larger issue of the extraction of peat for heating our homes?

This is a sensitive, emotional subject, but we need to have some hard-headed realism around it. If you, like me, Madam Deputy Speaker, support British horticulture, you should be very much opposed to this Bill, because it is a full-frontal assault upon the viability of our horticulture industry and will result in less choice for all those who engage in horticulture, whether as amateur or professional gardeners.

I urge the hon. Lady to think carefully before she drafts her Bill. If she thinks that it will be mitigated by having a lot of exemptions set out in it, I challenge her to include on the face of her Bill all the exemptions she thinks will be necessary, because only with thousands of exemptions will the Bill be in any way acceptable. That is the challenge to her. That is why I am not going to oppose her bringing forward her Bill. Let us see what it says, but I fear it is going to be absolutely ghastly. I am disappointed, because I thought the Liberal Democrats were the friends of people working in the countryside and in agriculture and horticulture, but this Bill suggests quite the reverse. I strongly oppose it.

Question put (Standing Order No. 23) and agreed to.

Ordered,

That Sarah Dyke, Wera Hobhouse, Tim Farron, Pippa Heylings, Martin Wrigley, Caroline Voaden, Carla Denyer, Layla Moran, Tessa Munt, Richard Foord, Vikki Slade and Steve Darling present the Bill.

Sarah Dyke accordingly presented the Bill.

Bill read the First time; to be read a Second time on Friday 24 January 2025, and to be printed (Bill 122).

Ways and Means

Wednesday 6th November 2024 Commons Chamber