Live Debate: Commons Chamber

Urgent question: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer if she will make a statement on the changes to Agricultural Property Relief and Business Property Relief

To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer if she will make a statement on the changes to Agricultural Property Relief and Business Property Relief.

15:44

Dan Tomlinson MP, The Exchequer Secretary (Chipping Barnet, Labour)

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Minister. >> Minister. >> Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and I thank the Shadow Secretary of State for asking this question. Happy New for asking this question. Happy New Year to her and to all members in the House. Mr. speaker, the reforms that were announced in December go further to protect more farms and businesses while maintaining the core principle that more valuable agricultural and business assets should not receive unlimited relief. The allowance for 100% rate of relief on Agricultural Property Relief and Business Property Relief will be increased from 1 million to 2.5 million when it is introduced in April.

Mr. speaker, this means a couple will now be able to pass on up to 5 million of agricultural business assets tax free between them, on top of the existing allowances such as the nil rate band. Taken together with the reform that was announced at the recent Budget, widows and widowers will also benefit from up to 2.5 million of their spouse's allowance, even if their spouse passed away many years ago. Our changes further reduced the number of estates forecast to pay more inheritance tax, and they further reduced the liability for many of the remaining estates compared to Budget 2025.

The number of estates claiming APR, including those also claiming BPR, that are affected by the reforms in the coming tax year, is expected to halve from what would have been 375 to just 185 estates. That means around 85% of estates claiming Agricultural Property Relief in 2627 are forecast to pay no more inheritance tax on their estates under these changes. The government, Mr. Speaker, has announced these changes after listening carefully to feedback from the farming community and family businesses, and I am pleased that the National Farmers Union and others have welcomed these changes.

Even after these reforms, the government expects to raise around 300,000,000 in 2029/30. From our changes to these tax reliefs. On this side, we are making the fair and responsible choices to support the farming community. With a record 11.8 billion investing in sustainable farming and food production over this Parliament, and to modernise our tax system for the future.

15:46

Rt Hon Victoria Atkins MP (Louth and Horncastle, Conservative)

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Victoria Atkins. granting this first urgent question of 2026 and what a way to open the New Year with yet another government U-turn. But where is the Chancellor of the Exchequer? This is her tax, her U-turn, and she should explain why she didn't announce this at the Budget. Because over the past 14 months, farmers, rural communities and the Conservatives have campaigned relentlessly in and out of Westminster against these vindictive taxes. This U-turn acknowledges what farmers have been telling the government from day one.

Ministers have got their maths badly wrong and many more farms and family businesses will be broken up as a result of Labour's higher taxes. Does the Minister accept this? Why has the government U-turned? Has it got anything to do with the recent Labour backbench rebellion? Can the Minister tell the House how many family farms and Non-farming family businesses will still have to pay this death tax? Our tenant farmers included, given that the now chief Secretary admitted at the time that 14,000 tenant farmers were missed out of their original calculations, and can the Minister also confirm whether he signed the Tax and Information and Impact note for this U-turn before the Budget? This partial U-turn does not save every family, farm and family business.

Indeed, for many, this U-turn is simply too late, with record farm closures under this government and the great personal toll it has taken on many families. Given the pain, the anguish, the distress and in some cases, the sorrow that this cruel tax has caused families up and down the country. Will the Minister now have the good grace to apologise on behalf of the government, to farmers and family business owners.

15:48

Dan Tomlinson MP, The Exchequer Secretary (Chipping Barnet, Labour)

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For Minister? government announced the change in December because we had continued to listen to both the representatives of family businesses and the representatives of the farming community. I know that the National Farmers Union and others have welcomed the change that has come forward, which will increase the threshold from 1 to £2.5 million. I think that is the right change to make, and I think it makes sure that we get the balance right. We're still raising £300 million from the very largest estates, and if members opposite would prefer not to raise that money and give £1 million tax cut to an estate worth 10 million, then that's their choice.

That's not our choice. We think we've got to the right place on this policy. And and that and that we strike the right balance, both raising revenue from those with the very largest estates, but also making sure that we have a higher threshold, which if someone's in a couple, because of the changes that we announced at the Budget, will mean that they'll now be they will now be able to pass on up to 5 million. The I didn't sign the tax information note for the change that was announced on 23rd of December before the Budget, and I can confirm that in the House and on the on the numbers of those who are affected.

As I said in my opening remarks, the number of estates affected who claim agricultural property relief, including those also claiming BPR is expected to halve from 375 to 185. Mr. speaker, overall.

15:50

Jim Dickson MP (Dartford, Labour)

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Jim Dickson. Thank you, Speaker, and Happy New Year to you. And can I thank the Minister for his answer? I thank the Minister for his answer? I was pleased to meet NFU representatives for Dartford and for Kent in late 2024 and in January 2025, and I passed on the view to Treasury Ministers following those meetings, that it was right for the government to close the inheritance tax loophole and stop the price of farmland being inflated by people purchasing that land to avoid inheritance tax.

But the threshold should be set as a significantly higher level to reduce the risk of smaller family businesses being affected by these changes. Does the Minister agree that the reliefs are now fairer to family farms, but will still achieve their purpose of reducing tax sheltering and raising vital revenue for public services? Minister?

15:50

Dan Tomlinson MP, The Exchequer Secretary (Chipping Barnet, Labour)

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Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Yes, I do believe that we've got the do believe that we've got the balance right here. You know, it is worth noting that the top 4% of worth noting that the top 4% of claims accounted for over half of the exchequer cost of business property relief, and the top 7% of claims accounted for 40% of the total exchequer cost of agricultural property relief. That's hundreds of millions of pounds, Mr. Speaker, in tax that was foregone, that will now be raised from these changes from the very largest estates.

And I thank

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my hon. Friend for his engagement on this issue over recent weeks and months. Daisy Cooper Liberal Democrat spokesperson.

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spokesperson. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Happy New Year to you, to the House staff and to all members here. Mr. and to all members here. Mr. speaker, this policy was a disaster from the get go. It came with no warning, no consultation and no warning, no consultation and no clue. We were the first party to point out the damage this was going to have to family farms. And we

15:51

Daisy Cooper MP (St Albans, Liberal Democrat)

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to have to family farms. And we have repeatedly and clearly highlighted that it was going to fail to tackle the loopholes exploited by private equity companies, but it was going to hammer the family farm, damaging our food security in the process. The changes are welcome, but they do not touch the sides, and they are a clear admission by this government that they have got it badly wrong. There is now only one sensible course of action left, and it is to scrap this in its entirety.

So will the government now do that? And if not, we Liberal Democrats will table amendments to the Finance Bill to bring it down. Will the government allow a free vote so that those on their own benches who want to vote against this measure are free to do so?

15:52

Dan Tomlinson MP, The Exchequer Secretary (Chipping Barnet, Labour)

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Yeah. >> Worcester Mr. speaker, I'm always interested in reading reading the amendments from the reading the amendments from the Liberal Democrats, even though none of them will ever get passed in in this House, and not least on this measure where we have got to the right position now. And I would just say to the hon. Member that the, the, the position now is that the the changes that will be in the Finance Bill will raise around £300 million. And it is, of course, a legitimate position to say that you do not wish to raise that revenue and instead that you would borrow more money or or that or that, or that you would cut public spending on services like our NHS.

That is not our position. We think that this is a fair and proportionate reform.

15:53

Jayne Kirkham MP (Truro and Falmouth, Labour )

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Jayne Kirkham thank you, Mr. Speaker. I welcome this as a Speaker. I welcome this as a sensible compromise, and I would like to point out that under Elms, the 800 million put into Elms in 2324 will become 2 billion by 2829, along with SMI fees being reintroduced in April. The land use Framework framework and the Farming Roadmap. Will the Minister agree with me that this Labour government is now well on track to raise food security and help our family farmers?

15:53

Dan Tomlinson MP, The Exchequer Secretary (Chipping Barnet, Labour)

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Hey. >> Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and I thank my hon. Friend for her question and for her work on the Select Committee on this and many other important issues that affect rural communities up and down the country and in her constituency. It's a fantastic part of the world, and I'm sure I'm sure I will be able to come and visit soon. And yes, she is right that the government is taking steps, for example, through our £11.8 billion fund to support sustainable farming and food production, and I look forward to working with Ministers in other departments and across government to making sure that that that we can continue to support our rural and our farming communities.

15:54

Rt Hon Alistair Carmichael MP (Orkney and Shetland, Liberal Democrat)

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So the select Committee, Alistair Carmichael. >> Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I welcome this announcement, and I pay the warmest possible tribute to the farming unions and others whose the farming unions and others whose tireless campaigning since the Budget of 2024 has made this happen. These changes do make this policy better. But that is not the same thing as saying that they make it good. It is surely bizarre that in 2025 you can have two farms, both valued at £5 million, but one of them passes free of inheritance tax, whereas the other has an inheritance tax bill of half £1 million.

Surely the government now has to come forward and publish the impact assessment that they presumably have done on this, so that we can all see the difference that we have, that they have East Surrey the reasons for this change, so that we might have some confidence that they've got the figures right this time.

15:55

Dan Tomlinson MP, The Exchequer Secretary (Chipping Barnet, Labour)

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Yes, Minister. >> Yes, Minister. >> Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The figures that the government has figures that the government has published with this change and at previous budgets are drawn from actual claims and and engagement with HMRC for both APR and BPR. And that analysis shows that before this change it would have been 275 estates, up to 275 estates affected a year, and now that number is forecast to halve to around 185. That means around 85% of all estates claiming APR, some with BPR will now not be paying any additional tax.

So I do stand by those figures. We publish them when we made the decision and they are included in the letter, Mr. Speaker, that I and the Secretary of State have sent to all members on the point the member raises around 2.5 million or 5 million. I think he's referring there to the fact that if if if you're on a couple, then you can get up to 5 million. If you're single, then it's two and a half. That is a long standing position. That means that the inheritance tax, nil rate band and the residence nil rate band are only transferable between spouses and civil partners, making any unused allowance transferable in the same way is consistent.

Mr. speaker, with that long standing approach.

15:56

Lizzi Collinge MP (Morecambe and Lunesdale, Labour)

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Lizzi Collinge. >> Lizzi Collinge. >> Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My constituents in Morecambe and Lunesdale very much welcome the changes to agricultural property relief and Business Property Relief, which, as the Minister knows, I have raised repeatedly the changes to relief mean that family farms will be protected, whilst large landowners who bought agricultural land simply to avoid paying tax will no longer have that loophole. So does the Minister agree with me that these changes show that firstly, the Labour government are listening to rural areas, listening to rural Labour MPs and unlike the opposition and unlike the opposition, Mr.

Speaker is serious about proper policy development, not just headline chasing.

15:57

Dan Tomlinson MP, The Exchequer Secretary (Chipping Barnet, Labour)

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Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and I thank my hon. Friend for her question. And she is right that we question. And she is right that we on this side of the House are the true and better representatives of the rural community. There are there are there are over 150 MPs on this side of the House that represent rural and semi-rural constituencies, I believe. Mr. speaker, there are as many MPs that represent rural constituencies alone as there are entirely on the blue side of the benches opposite.

15:58

Sir Geoffrey Clifton-Brown MP (North Cotswolds, Conservative)

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So Geoffrey Clifton-Brown, chair of the PAC. of the PAC. >> Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and Happy New Year to you and your staff. Farmers in my constituency staff. Farmers in my constituency will welcome this change in the threshold to APR and BPR. However, it took 14 months to achieve and the rural communities do really feel discriminated against by some of the measures that this government are taking against them. So could I ask him to convey to his colleagues, sitting on the Treasury front bench that not to enact any changes to shooting or trail

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hunting, because that will really damage and annoy the rural communities. The Minister.

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The Minister. Mr. Speaker, we will be going ahead with the changes that were set out in our manifesto and that

15:58

Dan Tomlinson MP, The Exchequer Secretary (Chipping Barnet, Labour)

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set out in our manifesto and that have been announced recently. I think, I think, I think that that doing. >> Jenny Riddell-Carpenter thank.

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Jenny Riddell-Carpenter thank. You, Mr. Speaker. Happy New Year to you and the team. Can I start by thanking the Minister for working

15:58

Jenny Riddell-Carpenter MP (Suffolk Coastal, Labour)

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thanking the Minister for working actively with rural colleagues and myself for the last 14 months for his department as well. And I know that in the many conversations that we've had, face to face and wider correspondence, we've set out a huge amount of issues that are well known to this House, but really at the heart of it, and why so many of us were concerned, is that lack of profitability in farming now? The Baroness Battersea report will go a huge way in addressing some of the systemic issues in farming.

But will the Minister agree with me that we need to also tackle supermarkets and the unfair practices and address lots of long standing issues, and that the Treasury as a whole needs to be continuing to engage with rural MPs and making sure that we put further reforms into farming profitability.

15:59

Dan Tomlinson MP, The Exchequer Secretary (Chipping Barnet, Labour)

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The Minister. thank my hon. Friend for her work, too, on the Select Committee and the work that she does in representing rural communities like her own. My understanding, Mr Speaker, is that Ministers in the Environment Department and the government, we are looking at what more we can do to make sure that farmers receive a fair price for their products. Of course, we do support having a competitive supermarket and retail system in this country, Mr. Speaker, so that we can have low prices for consumers.

But we do have to make sure that those prices are fair for those farmers and those communities who we rely on to produce good British produce up and down the country. this.

16:00

Rt Hon Sir Julian Smith MP (Skipton and Ripon, Conservative)

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Policy has caused huge stress for rural communities across North Yorkshire. What discussions is he Yorkshire. What discussions is he having inside government about other policies, such as the rates policy on public houses in rural areas, to make sure that this area is not made again? Minister.

16:00

Dan Tomlinson MP, The Exchequer Secretary (Chipping Barnet, Labour)

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Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I, I I'm, of course, continually as the tax Minister, which is why I'm here, to Minister, which is why I'm here, to go to the point that was made earlier as to why I'm here at the despatch box today, looking at what changes and improvements we can make to our tax system to continue support both rural and urban constituencies and communities up and down the country. And if there are changes that he would like to see, he is, of course, very welcome to write to me on, on, on that or on any other matter.

16:01

Tonia Antoniazzi MP (Gower, Labour)

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Robin Swann. >> Robin Swann. >> Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I've worked with extensively with the worked with extensively with the NFU, the Welsh branch, and also with NFU generally, and in the ufu in Northern Ireland. And I have to say that these changes are very, very much welcome. But I do want to say to the Minister and to the farming Minister sitting next to him, that it is very important that we have these conversations at every opportunity with Labour MPs and across the House, because it has damaged our farming communities.

But I also will take no truck with the opposition because I've been in opposition. I know what it's like and they let our farmers down. We are now fixing this situation and now we are getting to the heart of it and supporting our rural communities properly. And I welcome the changes, especially for my constituents in Gower.

16:02

Dan Tomlinson MP, The Exchequer Secretary (Chipping Barnet, Labour)

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Minister. >> I thank my hon. Friend for her question and for her experience and expertise that she brings to the expertise that she brings to the House as chair of the Select Committee and and the work that she has done on this and other issues. That is really very important. And yeah, you know, the the changes that we have made now to this policy, I think mean that it's now a fair and balanced policy that does protect more farms.

As I've said, the number of estates that are expected to pay more tax will halve Mr Speaker. And and and now we we can hopefully on this side of the House and across government continue to focus on the things that we can do to continue to support farming communities and our rural communities. For example, Mr. Speaker, the £11.8 billion of investment that we are putting in over the course of this Parliament.

16:02

Tim Farron MP (Westmorland and Lonsdale, Liberal Democrat)

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Tim Farron you Mr. Mr. speaker, our farming and rural communities in Cumbria and right across Britain should be utterly proud of should be utterly proud of themselves because this U-turn is their victory and I want to pay tribute to them. But the appalling emotional and economic damage to farmers over the last 14 months has been cruel and will have a lasting impact. So will he apologise to the farming community now for that last 14 months, and will he recognise that many hill farms in Cumbria will still be hit by this tax, because they are worth more than £2.5 million, while their average incomes are less than the minimum wage.

Doesn't this tax remain an attack on British farming and on food security?

16:03

Dan Tomlinson MP, The Exchequer Secretary (Chipping Barnet, Labour)

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Finished. that would have happened if the government hadn't made these changes in December last year is that members opposite would have been standing here asking us to make these changes. We are now coming forward with, with, with a revised position, which has the threshold increasing from 1 to £2.5 million. And yet members are criticising us for coming forward with that change. We think it's the right thing to do. And, and and Mr. Speaker, we have made sure that we've made it in good time before the Finance Bill, which is where these changes will be voted into law later this year.

Mr. speaker, and I would say to the hon. Member that, yes, there will be some estates who will continue to pay more as a result of these changes. They will be the very largest estates. But it is worth bearing in mind, Mr. Speaker, that those estates will also be paying significantly less now than before the change of the estates, worth 2.5 million relative to the position a few months ago. That's a £300,000 reduction in their tax liability. If it's worth 5 million, that's a £600,000 reduction.

These are significant reductions in the amount of tax at the very largest estates will have to pay. But we do think it is right and fair to continue with a reform that strikes the right balance between the need to raise more revenue and the need to make sure we are protecting smaller family farms.

16:05

Sadik Al-Hassan MP (North Somerset, Labour)

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Sadik Al-Hassan thank you, Mr. Speaker. Firstly, I'd like to wish you constituents in North Somerset House staff and hon. Members a Happy New Year. I welcome the government's decision to amend the thresholds for APR and BPR, as do rural communities in my constituency of North Somerset. I would also like to extend my thanks to those organisations who also campaigned for this outcome, such as the NFU. But this is only one part of a larger problem. For 50 years, our country has witnessed the gradual erosion of our rural communities, sustainability, our national food security and farm profitability.

I look forward to 2026 being the year that the farming sector gets the wider change it needs for the new year to be a happy and profitable one.

16:05

Dan Tomlinson MP, The Exchequer Secretary (Chipping Barnet, Labour)

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Minister. >> Minister. >> Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and I will also take the chance to wish will also take the chance to wish his constituents a Happy New Year. To the Battersea review that was published just a few weeks ago, set out the steps that the ideas that this government can take forward to ensure that farming can be profitable and sustainable. And I know that Ministers in DEFRA and across government will be continuing to work on those important objectives.

16:06

Rt Hon Sir John Whittingdale MP (Maldon, Conservative)

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So John Whittingdale, thank you, >> So John Whittingdale, thank you, Mr. Speaker, while I welcome this announcement, which directly contradicts what the Secretary of State told me and my hon. Friend on the day that the House rose for Christmas, is is the Minister aware that there are still a significant number of my constituents who farm in the Dengie Peninsula and elsewhere, who will face a significant inheritance tax bill which may prevent them passing on their farms to their children in the way that they inherited them originally.

If the Minister is anxious about the scheme being used as a tax avoidance measure, will he reconsider the NFU suggestion of a clawback mechanism where if a farm is sold within a certain period after inheritance, then the government can take back the exemption? Exactly. Mr.

16:07

Dan Tomlinson MP, The Exchequer Secretary (Chipping Barnet, Labour)

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Thank you, Mr. Speaker. No, we will not be considering the clawback proposals that have been clawback proposals that have been put forward. Instead, the government has come forward with the change that was announced in December last year to increase the threshold from 1 to £2.5 million. And it is, of course, worth remembering that the tax rate paid above those higher thresholds is half the tax rate that anyone else who has sufficient assets would pay if they were liable for inheritance tax, and that any tax liability can be paid interest free over ten years.

We think that on balance, these changes will yes, they will affect some of the very largest estates. The government's published the numbers based on the actual claims data from HMRC that estimates that fewer than 200 estates will be paying additional tax. But because of these changes, almost all of those estates that are paying some additional tax will be paying significantly less than otherwise. Because we have listened to family businesses, because we have listened to farming communities.

16:08

Mr Clive Betts MP (Sheffield South East, Labour)

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Clive Betts thank. >> Is an issue of importance to the farming industry. It's also important to small firms in the steel and engineering sector in my steel and engineering sector in my constituency, a special alloy. Quality Alloys is a firm where the owner wrote to me and said this firm had been in the family for many, many years and passed on from one generation to another. They were really concerned that the measure, as initially proposed, could lead to a break up of that important firm, which has won the Queen's Award for enterprise in the past, meaning it would either be sold off or broken up.

So with my right hon. Friend, confirm that this measure will equally help those sorts of small businesses, which are vital to the overall well-being of the steel and engineering sector in Sheffield. Minister.

16:09

Dan Tomlinson MP, The Exchequer Secretary (Chipping Barnet, Labour)

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I thank my hon. Friend for his question, and it has given me a chance to return to a question that the shadow Secretary of State asked, but I didn't quite get to. You have but I didn't quite get to. You have to forgive me, which is to just record for the House that the number of estates who are only claiming Business Property Relief is set to fall from 325 such estates to 220 a year as a result of these changes, increasing the threshold from 1 to 2.5 million.

And I met with a with the representatives from Family Business UK, and I know that members on this side of the House have as well as been having private conversations around APR, have been discussing with the government the proposals on BPR as well. And this uplift in the threshold will mean that family businesses that people do want to pass on will now have a have a lower tax rate or, or in many cases now not not have to pay the tax at all.

16:10

Wendy Chamberlain MP (North East Fife, Liberal Democrat)

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Wendy Chamberlain. >> I find it. >> Interesting that the Minister is standing today to say that this is now the right policy. It is what the government said on the 23rd December, but it is not what they said on the 18th of December when they had DEFRA oral questions in they had DEFRA oral questions in this place on the day before we rose. But I have spoken to farmers who now will not be impacted by the tax, who have spent cash flow and hard earned savings in taking financial advice to ameliorate this change.

And things are not getting on New Years Day that he was going to be facing a £0.03 per litre cut to his milk supply. So along with the Battersea report, what assessment is the government making of the on going financial impact on farmers, whether that be poor government policy or poor supply chain practices?

16:10

Dan Tomlinson MP, The Exchequer Secretary (Chipping Barnet, Labour)

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Minister. >> Thank you, Mr. Speaker. You know, I am aware that earlier in the year, members opposite and in this House members opposite and in this House did ask us about these changes and that we have come forward with a revised proposal with a higher threshold. I think that is the threshold. I think that is the right thing to do. I think it shows that we have listened to the representations from the farming community and from the business community. As my hon.

Friend recently mentioned and the Battersea review that was published on the 18th of December last year has made a number of different recommendations, Mr. Speaker, and we will be taking forward many of the proposals there to make sure we can support increased profit, increased profitability for farmers, and make sure that we can continue to work on important sustainability initiatives to John Whitby.

16:11

John Whitby MP (Derbyshire Dales, Labour)

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Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Chancellor recently to highlight the impact that the proposed changes to APR and BPR would have had on farmers in Derbyshire Dales, and I would therefore like to thank the Minister and the Chancellor sincerely for listening to me and other members of the Labour Rural Research Group and for raising the tax free allowance. Since the change was announced, over 100 farmers have written to me to say how pleased they are about this change, with one farmer stating this has been hanging over me all year making me ill and I can't believe the relief I'm feeling right now.

I was therefore wondering if the Minister or the Chancellor would like now like to take the opportunity to visit a farm in Derbyshire Dales so that they can see for themselves the positive difference that this

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change has made. Hey Minister. I thank my hon. Friend for his question and for his invitation. I question and for his invitation. I will make sure to pass it on to the Chancellor of the Exchequer, and it's one that I will consider

16:12

Dan Tomlinson MP, The Exchequer Secretary (Chipping Barnet, Labour)

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carefully myself. >> Mr. Bernard Jenkin. >> Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Right. hon. Gentleman referred a little while ago to the importance of

16:12

Sir Bernard Jenkin MP (Harwich and North Essex, Conservative)

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while ago to the importance of manifesto commitments wherein the manifesto did it say that there would be any restriction on inheritance taxes for farmers? And in fact, wasn't it the case that Ministers went round promising not to impose such attacks when they were in opposition, and they then did precisely the opposite? So when he's talking about manifesto commitments, can you just have a slightly less selective memory and also avoid misconstruing the position of the NFU that is still in favour of the abolition of this tax altogether? Tom Bradshaw is my constituent and I hope he will send him his best wishes and congratulate him on exposing the hypocrisy of this government.

Yeah.

16:13

Dan Tomlinson MP, The Exchequer Secretary (Chipping Barnet, Labour)

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I had the pleasure of meeting >> I had the pleasure of meeting Mr. Bradshaw last year, and the NFU have welcomed the changes that the government put forward in their statements that they released when we announced it and around the turn of the year, and he asked about manifesto commitments. Mr. speaker, we were very clear in our manifesto that we would return economic stability to this country, putting behind the chaos of Liz Truss, putting behind the chaos that the party opposite left us with.

And part of that is about making sure that we don't continue to borrow excessive levels as they did, but been borrowing down in every single borrowing is coming down in every single year of the next five years, Mr. Speaker, and making sure that we can raise revenue in a fair and sustainable way to fund our public services.

16:14

Laura Kyrke-Smith MP (Aylesbury, Labour)

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Laura Kyrke-Smith. welcome these changes hugely, which I know have been met by with real relief by the farmers in my constituency of Aylesbury. And I'm grateful to those farmers who have fed in their perspectives to me over the last year and allowed me to pass those on to the the Treasury. Can the Minister reassure me that, and my local farmers, that he will continue to listen and engage to our farming communities in this way, recognising the inherent value of farming, but also the great contribution that it makes to the economy and to our food security.

16:14

Dan Tomlinson MP, The Exchequer Secretary (Chipping Barnet, Labour)

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Mr. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I thank my hon. Friend, for the thank my hon. Friend, for the conversations that I know that she has had with Ministers on this and has had with Ministers on this and other issues in recent weeks and months. And yes, we will continue to do all we can to support farmers and the farming industry in this country. That's part of why we're working hard on trade deals, to make sure we can improve access to markets for farmers here in the UK, so they can export more of their produce overseas.

16:15

Dave Doogan MP (Angus and Perthshire Glens, Scottish National Party)

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Dave Doogan Mr. speaker, I pay tribute to the Minister. He's back out again doing a sterling job of out again doing a sterling job of being a totally discredited Chancellor's human shield. He will remember the Finance Bill that we debated just before Christmas, which took three hours in this place, and two hours of that was taken up with Agricultural Property Relief. As I pointed out to him at the time, he wants us to believe that he has moved this policy into an acceptable position.

But it is no such thing. This is a policy that the Labour Party expressly said they would not enact. And then they did it, and now they've made it slightly less bad. I and the Nfus in Scotland are firmly opposed to this in its entirety. So will he take a win for a hard up government and pause this policy pending a proper analysis?

16:16

Dan Tomlinson MP, The Exchequer Secretary (Chipping Barnet, Labour)

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Minister. are. Did discuss this at Treasury questions at the Second Reading of the Finance Bill. We'll have time, Mr. Speaker, to discuss it at the Committee of the whole House of the Finance Bill next week, too. And I can see there are many more questions coming. So we may have many more hours today, Mr. Speaker, to discuss it as well. In the end, the position that the government has got to now is that we are we are we are going to be amending the Finance Bill to make this change, to increase the threshold from 1 to 2.5 million, and that will we expect and it will be confirmed by the OBR in the usual way.

Fiscal events will raise £300 million money that we can put into our public services, rather than continue the chaos of previous years with additional borrowing. It is right to look in the round at fair and necessary tax changes that we can make on those with the broadest shoulders, so that we can fund our public services adequately.

16:17

Ms Julie Minns MP (Carlisle, Labour)

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Mr. Spence. >> Mr. Speaker, and Happy New year. Can I pay tribute to Carlisle NFU and to my constituents who have raised this issue with me over the raised this issue with me over the last 14 months? And can I thank the Minister and his colleagues for engaging constructively and to listening to those representations at a time when North Cumbrian farmers face land price increases as a result of both forestry firms snapping up large parcels of land, but also large landowners seeking to abuse the system by hiding their wealth.

This is an important step in balancing both the need to tackle that abuse and tackle rising land prices, and raising the revenue that our village schools, our rural communities, need to tackle crime and our local health services require. And does the Minister agree with me that this now achieves that balance that we need?

16:18

Dan Tomlinson MP, The Exchequer Secretary (Chipping Barnet, Labour)

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I thank my hon. Friend for her question and for the strong representation that she has representation that she has provided for rural constituents of hers and rural communities. And, Mr. Speaker, she makes a very important point. It is worth noting that this is a tax relief and and the tax relief as it stood before the changes that the government have come forward to since the Budget in 2024 meant that the top 7% of claims for agricultural property relief accounted for 40% of the exchequer cost of the relief, and that was £219 million Mr Speaker in tax that was forgone revenue.

Now that by and large, this government will be raising from the very largest estates to help fund our public services. Mr. speaker, in a sustainable way, something that the opposition were never able to do because of their chaotic management of the economy and the public finances.

16:18

Aphra Brandreth MP (Chester South and Eddisbury, Conservative)

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Aphra Brandreth. >> Aphra Brandreth. >> Thank you. >> Speaker. The government has heard from these benches time and heard from these benches time and again about the impact the farming family farm tax has had on food security, the risk to countryside security, the risk to countryside stewardship and our environment and the economic viability of farms, but also, crucially, on the impact for farmers mental health. So my question to the Minister is simple. On behalf of farmers across Chester South and Eddisbury, why did this decision take so long?

16:19

Dan Tomlinson MP, The Exchequer Secretary (Chipping Barnet, Labour)

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Mr. speaker, the government wanted to make sure that the changes that we are legislating for changes that we are legislating for in the finance Bill in the coming weeks came forward before the Finance Bill was passed. We have Finance Bill was passed. We have continued to listen. We have continued to listen to farming communities, to family businesses. And I do now think the changes that we have come forward with, Mr. speaker, increasing the threshold from 1 to 2.5 million, coupled with the changes that we announced at the Budget earlier, I was going to say earlier this year, but just last year, Mr.

Speaker, will mean that a couple can pass on up to £5 million of agricultural or business assets tax free. We on this side of the House think that that is a fair and proportionate way to raise revenue from some of the very largest estates in the country.

16:20

Ben Goldsborough MP (South Norfolk, Labour)

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Ben Goldsborough, thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. >> South Norfolk is. >> Home to 400 farms, and I want to also put on record to thank Will, Nick, David and Deborah, some of my farmers that have supported me hand in glove over the last 14 months in representations to the Minister, which I welcome these changes. But the biggest threat to family farming within South Norfolk right now is biosecurity risks. Can I urge the Treasury to pay this special attention to this, especially avian influenza and African swine fever, so we can protect the family farm going forward? Thank you.

Minister.

16:20

Dan Tomlinson MP, The Exchequer Secretary (Chipping Barnet, Labour)

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I, I thank my hon. Friend for the strong representation that he the strong representation that he has provided for his constituents since he was elected in 2024 and and for raising a a very important issue, one that I'm sure that government Ministers in Defra are very alive to and will continue

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conversations with members on David Davis. I used to call this a property. Relief, Mr. Speaker, and what is

16:21

Rt Hon David Davis MP (Goole and Pocklington, Conservative)

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>> Relief, Mr. Speaker, and what is an absolutely new tax? But will he tell us will the agricultural

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property tax threshold rise in line with agricultural land prices? Mr. speaker, the government has

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Mr. speaker, the government has set the thresholds for tax policies

16:21

Dan Tomlinson MP, The Exchequer Secretary (Chipping Barnet, Labour)

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over the period of the OBR's forecast, and it wouldn't be right for me to comment on the changes that may or may not happen after that. May I just say to the member opposite that, you know, throughout the whole time that Margaret Thatcher was in power, we didn't have a system like the one that we have today. So he isn't quite right to say that that this relief, you know, has always been there. It was not there when, when the, the political hero of many of the members opposite was in power.

16:22

Andrew Pakes MP (Peterborough, Labour )

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Andrew Pakes. >> Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and happy New Year to you and all of your team. I welcome the Minister's your team. I welcome the Minister's comments and I'd like to thank DEFRA and Treasury Ministers for engaging with farmers and NFU members in my constituency and listening to their views they have. Mr. speaker, you will know that farming has had a terrible decade. It's much bigger than 14 months with rural services cut, with farming budgets unspent, with failed Brexit plans and with trade deals that sold British farmers out.

Does my right hon. Friend agree with me that with the changes we've made to APR with the findings of the Battersea review and with the funding that this government is putting in place, we are now in place to turn a corner on that terrible decade for British farming.

16:22

Dan Tomlinson MP, The Exchequer Secretary (Chipping Barnet, Labour)

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Yes, Minister. >> Yes, Mr. Speaker. Yes. Yes. Mr. speaker, I do agree with my hon. Friend that that was a very powerful question and a very powerful question and a very powerful contribution. Mr. speaker, he makes some very important points around the fact that the trade deals that were negotiated under the previous governments undermined British farming. The fact that there wasn't the consistency of investment and support for farmers up and down the country. And what do rural communities think about this? At the last general election, they turfed out hundreds of conservative rural MPs and put in over 150 Labour MPs to represent rural and semi-rural constituencies.

This side of the House now is the mainstream voice of rural communities up and down this country.

16:23

Helen Morgan MP (North Shropshire, Liberal Democrat)

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Helen Morgan. >> Mr. speaker, the psychological impact of the last 14 months has been profound. In rural places like North Shropshire. Every primary North Shropshire. Every primary school visit I've done in the last 14 months, I've been asked by a child, a 7 or 8, to confirm that I oppose the family farm tax because having a devastating impact on their family at home and the uncertainty has had a devastating impact on related businesses like agricultural machinery suppliers as well.

And it will continue to have an impact of making business owners deliberately keep their business small so that they don't have to pay inheritance tax because they can't sell off part of that farm. It won't be viable without it. So why is this government continuing with this daft policy of restricting growth in rural areas?

16:24

Dan Tomlinson MP, The Exchequer Secretary (Chipping Barnet, Labour)

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Mr. speaker, the government wants to support growth and investment in rural communities. investment in rural communities. That's why we're putting in £11.8 billion of support over the course of this Parliament. That's why we're making sure that across the board, we improve our economy and our economic fortunes as a country. After the chaos of the last 14 years, we've had six interest rates cuts in a row. We've had borrowing costs coming down, we've had inflation falling faster than people forecast. And it's now forecast to continue to fall.

All of those long term changes to improve our economic outlook will support businesses in rural communities and communities across the country. Speaker.

16:25

Joe Morris MP (Hexham, Labour)

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And can I put on record my >> And can I put on record my thanks to farmers like Nick Mac, Debbie James and Graham in my constituency in the north London branch of the NFU, who I was in contact with regularly and who welcomed the Minister to my constituency to hear first hand about the potential impact of the policy had it not been changed. Can I also urge him to impress upon colleagues the importance of buying British wherever possible? The best way to improve profitability is to make sure that as much of the public sector food procurement is done from British farms, and to ensure that farming farmland is not lost, that to replace potential food producing land more more food producing land is not needed to be cut out of forests elsewhere in the world.

Mr.

16:25

Dan Tomlinson MP, The Exchequer Secretary (Chipping Barnet, Labour)

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Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and I >> Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and I thank my hon. Friend, for inviting me to his constituency last year, shortly after I was a maiden Minister on the 1st of September. I believe it was it was a very productive and useful visit, and I want to thank the farmers and the community that I met when I came to that lovely cafe and had some lovely tea and cake with you and those farmers, that that was a really helpful conversation for me, and I'm thankful to him and the representations that he has made on behalf of his constituents over many months.

And, Mr. Speaker, on the point he makes around procurement and making sure we can continue support farmers and farming communities, that's something that I want to work with him on. And I know that Ministers across government, particularly in the Environment Department, will will continue to do that in the months and years ahead so we can turn the page on the chaos that we had under the previous government.

16:26

Rt Hon Sir Gavin Williamson MP (Stone, Great Wyrley and Penkridge, Conservative)

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Gavin Williamson sir. Gavin. >> Gavin Williamson sir. Gavin. >> Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I can't adequately put into words the fear, the concern, the stress that farmers in my constituency and right across the country have felt as a result of the policy that was announced at the government's first Budget. And now that same fear is also being felt in rural pubs up and down the country in terms of the changes to business rates. So will the Minister firstly, apologise to those farmers for that fear, stress and cost that he's put them all through? And will he also indicate to many publicans across Staffordshire that they're going to do a U-turn on the business rates, so they don't close rural pubs?

16:27

Dan Tomlinson MP, The Exchequer Secretary (Chipping Barnet, Labour)

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Yeah. >> Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The the government has been listening to rural communities, to the farming rural communities, to the farming representatives and to the representatives of family businesses. And that's why after listening, we've come forward with these changes that we think now strike the right balance between the necessary. Impulse to make sure that we can have a fair and sustainable tax system and also continue to protect those smaller businesses and farms. And I'm sure we'll have many more chances in this place to continue to discuss business rates.

16:28

Terry Jermy MP (South West Norfolk, Labour)

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Terry Jermy. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This is very welcome news Speaker. This is very welcome news and many farmers in my constituency will be delighted. Can I firstly acknowledge the Minister's engagement on this subject and the many conversations he's had with myself and other Labour Party representatives from rural communities? Can I also pay tribute to my hon. Friend, the Member for Suffolk Coastal, for her role as chair of the Labour Rural Research Group and the advocacy for hundreds of farmers across the country, I think it's fair to say that the changes to APR are part of a long list of concerns for farmers in this country, concerns which were increased over 14 years of Conservative government, where we saw a huge decline of farming.

Can the Minister, can I invite the Minister to join me in a New Year's resolution to work with Treasury colleagues to do more and all that we can possibly do to support farming in this country?

16:28

Dan Tomlinson MP, The Exchequer Secretary (Chipping Barnet, Labour)

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Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and I >> Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and I thank my hon. Friend for his question and his continued reminder of the fact that the previous of the fact that the previous government and previous conservative Prime Ministers were roundly rejected by the country at the last general election. People in rural communities and communities up and down the country Mr Speaker voted for change. Change for the better with this Labour government and for a government that will continue to represent and support farming communities up and down the country.

And let me thank him on his recent appointment. Let me praise him on his recent appointment to the Select committee to well, I know that he will provide an invaluable contribution in his continued representation of rural communities.

16:29

Rt Hon Sammy Wilson MP (East Antrim, Democratic Unionist Party)

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Sammy Wilson. Mr. speaker, can I. >> Sammy Wilson. Mr. speaker, can I. >> Wish you and the staff a Happy New Year as well. Regardless of the New Year as well. Regardless of the reason for the change in policy, whether it's simply the fear of the electoral consequences of breaking electoral promises and manifesto promises to farmers, or a belated recognition of the importance of the farming industry to feeding the nation in an increasingly unstable world. I welcome these changes, but I would point out to the Minister, despite his assurances, 25% of farmers in Northern Ireland will still fall over the threshold which he has announced, and that will have an impact on family farms because of the the cost of land, etc.

Will he accept that since he is he's seen the disaster of the policy? They don't really. Only answer is to abolish it altogether. Mr.

16:30

Noah Law MP (St Austell and Newquay, Labour)

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No, I do not accept that. Mr. Speaker, that is not the answer. Noah Law thank you, Mr. Speaker. >> I thank the Minister for his considered engagement with rural considered engagement with rural Labour MPs such as myself from the get go on this. And I also thank farmers, at least in my part of Cornwall, for their dignified engagement and what I know has been a difficult time. So does the Minister agree with me that, well, we've landed now is a much better balance that actually, in relative terms favours small family farms compared to industrial concerns, institutional investors and actually those looking to use agricultural property as a means of avoiding tax.

16:31

Dan Tomlinson MP, The Exchequer Secretary (Chipping Barnet, Labour)

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Minister. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker, and I thank my hon. Friend for his question and his continued engagement on this and a whole range of issues that affect rural communities in Cornwall. He is a strong advocate for his constituents, and we have now come forward with a change in the APR and BPR thresholds to make sure, as he says, that we can protect those smaller family farms.

16:31

Alicia Kearns MP (Rutland and Stamford, Conservative)

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I urge. >> I urge. >> Colleagues to keep their questions short and for the answers to be on point. Alicia Kearns. Thank you. >> Mr. Speaker.

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Mr. Speaker. This U-turn comes too late for too many, and it's extraordinary to hear Labour MPs saying that their farmers are delighted. Mine is sick farmers are delighted. Mine is sick with relief after 14 months now the liaison Committee, the Prime Minister accepted that he knew that some farmers had planned to take their lives or had already, and yet it still took him well over a week to decide that rural lives matter. So what was it that suddenly changed after 14 months, where he decided that our farmers decided to be stood by and not be questioned whether or not they were going to be here for next Christmas.

16:32

Dan Tomlinson MP, The Exchequer Secretary (Chipping Barnet, Labour)

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Minister. >> Minister. >> Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. Over the course of recent months, Over the course of recent months, the government, since I've been in the government on from from September, Ministers from the Environment Department and from the Treasury have continued to engage with farming communities and with business communities. It's of course, worth remembering, and it has been raised by some in the chamber today that this change affects on Business Property Relief and not just on agricultural property relief.

And as a result of that listening and that engagement, we have come forward with the change in time for the Finance Bill.

16:32

Steve Witherden MP (Montgomeryshire and Glyndŵr, Labour)

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Steve Witherden. >> Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. This month marks 12 months since I first called on the government to first called on the government to raise the April threshold. I strongly welcome the decision to do strongly welcome the decision to do so and thank NFU Comrie and the FAO for their tireless campaigning. Can the Minister assure me that the government will continue to listen to rural communities like mine?

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Minister? Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. Yes. I can reassure my hon. Friend Yes. I can reassure my hon. Friend that we will continue to listen and engage with the over 150 Labour MPs

16:33

Dan Tomlinson MP, The Exchequer Secretary (Chipping Barnet, Labour)

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that represent rural and semi-rural House. >> Sarah. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

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Sarah. Thank you, Madam Speaker. It really should not have taken over a year for the pleas of thousands of farmers to be heard

16:33

Sarah Dyke MP (Glastonbury and Somerton, Liberal Democrat)

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thousands of farmers to be heard and the government to finally concede their mistake and change the disastrous family farm tax. But it is clear that they still simply don't understand the industry. Many farmers in Glastonbury and Somerton are run by multi-generational family partnerships rather than by married couples. These businesses will not benefit from the combined spousal allowance of up to £5 million. So will the Chancellor finally give up and completely leave farmers alone to get on with what they do best and produce food for the nation?

16:34

Dan Tomlinson MP, The Exchequer Secretary (Chipping Barnet, Labour)

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Here. >> Here. >> We think it's the right thing to do to continue to raise around £300 million from this policy. Madam million from this policy. Madam Deputy Speaker, so that we can, alongside the other changes that the government is making, raise revenue in a fair and sustainable way to fund our public services.

16:34

James Naish MP (Rushcliffe, Labour)

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James Naish. >> Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker and I. Refer members to my register Minister. >> For his engagement. >> On this issue over recent months.

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On this issue over recent months. It has made a real difference given his engagement on this matter and rural issues. I wonder whether he rural issues. I wonder whether he would agree with me that this country needs a rural strategy, and that's something that this government should be delivering.

16:34

Dan Tomlinson MP, The Exchequer Secretary (Chipping Barnet, Labour)

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Mr. Minister. this government has our farming roadmap. We've also set out we have we've also published the Battersea review. Many of the proposals and the recommendations in there, we will be taking forward so that we can continue to support profitability and sustainability for farmers and our farming communities.

16:34

John Cooper MP (Dumfries and Galloway, Conservative)

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John Cooper. >> John Cooper. >> Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker, and the. >> Good. >> News, New Year to you and the staff. The past 14 months have been hell for the farmers of Dumfries and Galloway, and the Minister has made it clear he will not apologise for that. But will he stop fantasising like the wealth finder general? The money that he can take out of agriculture and instead concentrate on helping British tables?

16:35

Dan Tomlinson MP, The Exchequer Secretary (Chipping Barnet, Labour)

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Minister. >> I thank my hon. Friend for his question and we do need to continue to do all we can. Madam Deputy Speaker, to support British farming Speaker, to support British farming so we can have more British produce on our shelves and to make sure that countries overseas can have more British produce, too. That's why we've been working hard on our trade deals to secure more access for British farmers to markets overseas as well.

16:35

Gerald Jones Madam Deputy Speaker I welcome the increase in Speaker I welcome the increase in the threshold, and I'd like to remind the Minister that in terms of farming profitability, it was my of farming profitability, it was my conservative predecessor and former Defra secretary who described their Australia deal as not actually a very good deal for the UK. The Conservatives sold out and undercut our farmers with trade deals to New Zealand, where we couldn't export to them, but they could export to us and these deals were cheered on by reform.

Will the Minister confirm that this Labour government will never sign such incompetent and damaging deals? And we will not take lectures on farming profitability from the Conservatives or reform.

16:36

Perran Moon MP (Camborne and Redruth, Labour)

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I thank my hon. Friend for his question and he gives me the chance. Madam Deputy Speaker, to quote Michael Gove, who admitted that the previous government had let down British farmers, he said. Madam Deputy Speaker, that I can confirm Deputy Speaker, that I can confirm that we negotiated poorly with Australia and New Zealand, but particularly with Australia, in defence of our farmers. He admits defence of our farmers. He admits that the last government made mistakes when it comes to failing farmers on trade.

I wonder whether the opposition will do so too.

16:36

Dan Tomlinson MP, The Exchequer Secretary (Chipping Barnet, Labour)

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Richard Tice. This partial U-turn on the dreadful family farm tax is partially welcomed by farmers in Boston and Skegness. But where is the Chancellor to come and admit the error of her ways? And what I would error of her ways? And what I would say is that jobs have been lost, investment has been slashed and investment has been slashed and tragically, Madam Deputy Speaker lives have been lost by this tax. So will the Minister, at the third time of asking apologise to the farming community?

16:37

Richard Tice MP (Boston and Skegness, Reform UK)

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Mr.

16:37

Dan Tomlinson MP, The Exchequer Secretary (Chipping Barnet, Labour)

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Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker, as the Minister with responsibility for tax, I'm here answering for tax, I'm here answering questions about tax and I'm happy to continue to do so. The change that the government has come forward with that was announced last month, that will that we will be legislating for in the Finance Bill does increase the threshold from 1 to 2.5 million, because we have listened, because we have listened to farmers and their representatives, and because we have listened to family businesses, too.

Madam Deputy Speaker, we think that is the right thing to do, and we think it strikes the right balance.

16:37

Dame Nia Griffith MP (Llanelli, Labour)

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Nia Griffith very much. >> Nia Griffith very much. >> Well, I'd like to thank my hon. Friends in both DEFRA and the Treasury for listening to farming colleagues, including the NFU, Susan Murray and NFU. I'm making this very welcome change to the proposals for the Agricultural Property Relief, meaning that many more Welsh farms will not pay any additional inheritance tax. But he will know that the previous Conservative government signed very detrimental trade agreements with Australia and New Zealand, which with in ten years will lead to limitless meat import quotas.

So will he look very carefully at what could now be done in order to help those Welsh family farms maintain their farming tradition, because at the moment they're going to be open to very severe, very severe competition. So everything needs to be done to look at what can be done to help them.

16:38

Dan Tomlinson MP, The Exchequer Secretary (Chipping Barnet, Labour)

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Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. And yes, the previous government And yes, the previous government did negotiate very poorly when it came to trade deals when the Conservatives negotiate. Madam Deputy Speaker, Britain loses, whereas on this side of the House we have negotiated three new trade for new trade deals now, significant trade deals that will continue to help making sure that British businesses, both farming businesses, but businesses of all sorts can access more markets more easily. And, Madam Deputy Speaker, that's the right thing to do for the long term growth and productivity.

16:39

Rt Hon John Glen MP (Salisbury, Conservative)

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Glenn. >> Thank you. Madam Deputy Speaker, I welcome the partial U-turn. And when I met a number of farmers on Boxing Day, all 400 of them that Boxing Day, all 400 of them that were very concerned that the next phase of this government's relationship with rural Britain will be a consultation on banning trail hunting, when in fact, I think what the Minister could do from this experience is go back to the Treasury, ask his officials to put together a team to work very closely with their counterparts in DEFRA to absolutely ensure that the farmers obligation and indeed their true intent to produce food and be good stewards of the environment can be combined.

And to ensure that never again in the course of this Parliament will such measures be undertaken as they were last year.

16:40

Dan Tomlinson MP, The Exchequer Secretary (Chipping Barnet, Labour)

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Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. He mentions the issue of trail He mentions the issue of trail hunting that was in our manifesto. It's part of our animal welfare strategy to continue with with some important changes there. Madam Deputy Speaker. Madam Deputy Speaker, and I think it's the right thing to do for governing parties to make progress on the commitments that they made when they stood before the country.

16:40

Dave Robertson MP (Lichfield, Labour)

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Dave Robertson speaker changes to its. farms and family businesses. The current system as is, does not work. And whilst we do need a tax regime that protects genuinely family farms, but doesn't let the super rich dogs dodge tax by buying up land, and actually many of the farmers in my constituency have the same concerns around that. They've also been very, very clear to me that the £1 million threshold was too low and it was going to have a really significant detrimental impact on farming in my constituency.

I, along with many other Labour MPs in rural seats, have made that case directly to Ministers and I'm very pleased to see that the government is raising that threshold to 2.5 million, because it will make a huge difference for farmers in my constituency. What I'm very interested to hear, though, is what steps the government will be taking and what steps the Minister can take with colleagues to ensure that profitability is at the forefront of our work with farmers, particularly on things like I'll leave that.

16:41

Dan Tomlinson MP, The Exchequer Secretary (Chipping Barnet, Labour)

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Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. The Battersea review focussed The Battersea review focussed closely on this, and we'll be looking at the proposals and the recommendations there and making recommendations there and making sure that we can do all we can as a government within the constraints that we have to continue to focus on improving farming profitability.

16:41

Anna Sabine MP (Frome and East Somerset, Liberal Democrat)

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New year tip look at your question. Cross out most of it, question. Cross out most of it, then continue. Anna Sabine Anna Sabine. >> Speaker in my constituency Frome and East Somerset, we have not just and East Somerset, we have not just a lot of farms, but we have huge numbers of other businesses and livelihoods that rely on those farms. And that whole rural economy has been really negatively impacted by the last 14 months with the Minister undertake not just to apologise to communities like mine, but to undertake that the government will genuinely start listening to rural communities because at the moment they don't feel listened to or understood by, or even cared for by this government.

The.

16:42

Dan Tomlinson MP, The Exchequer Secretary (Chipping Barnet, Labour)

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Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. We will continue to listen to rural We will continue to listen to rural communities and to farming communities to make sure that we can support them as they seek to can support them as they seek to grow and invest in their businesses, to improve and support the communities that they are part of. And because we have been listening, because we've been listening to the representatives of farming communities and of family businesses, we have come forward with the changes that we think do strike the right balance.

16:42

Steve Race MP (Exeter, Labour)

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Steve Race thank you, Madam Speaker. I welcome this as a sensible compromise and thank the sensible compromise and thank the members of NFU for their work talking to me both here and in Exeter. I want to talk about the government increasing support for nature friendly farming through environmental land management schemes. It's going up from 800 million a year to 2 billion a year over the coming years. And can the government confirm that this government is taking the necessary steps to make sure that we can sustainably and environmentally friendly and environmentally friendly way produce the food we need in this country? Mr.

16:43

Dan Tomlinson MP, The Exchequer Secretary (Chipping Barnet, Labour)

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Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker, and I thank my hon. Friend, for the and I thank my hon. Friend, for the engagement that we have had on this and on other issues that affect his constituency and the rural aspects of his constituency, which I know it contains some. He raises a very important point, and we need to continue to work in partnership with farmers in partnership with their representatives and trade bodies, to make sure we can support sustainable food production in the UK.

That's why we're investing £11.8 billion of support over this Parliament. Madam Deputy Speaker.

16:43

Stuart Anderson MP (South Shropshire, Conservative)

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Thank you, Madam. >> Thank you, Madam. >> Deputy Speaker, I want to thank. All of the South Shropshire. >> Farmers and businesses for a tireless.

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Campaign where they've. Been continually. Told by the government that they've been wrong and they are now proved right. They are still proved right. They are still telling me. This tax is wrong. The family farm tax isn't right. Will the Minister apologise for the heartache, pain and suffering that he has caused? South Shropshire farmers and businesses and scrap

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this tax completely? Minister. We will not be scrapping this

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We will not be scrapping this tax completely. We are. We have laid an amendment that will that will be in the that that the House will be in the that that the House can have the chance to debate next week in the Committee of the whole House of the Finance Bill. We think House of the Finance Bill. We think that the proposals that we are now planning to implement will both

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planning to implement will both raise £300 million in a fair way and will protect smaller family farms. Douglas McAllister. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

16:44

Douglas McAllister MP (West Dunbartonshire, Labour)

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Last month I visited Port Nelson Farm in my West Dunbartonshire constituency. I received a very constituency. I received a very warm and courteous welcome from husband and wife farmers, David and Frieda and their son Chris. The Scott Arthur run their family farm and they were keen that I hear and see it first hand. The challenges that they face to ensure that their next generation can continue to farm at Port Nelson. And I listen to their requests that we review the original proposals.

Does the Minister agree that 85% of all farming estates will now be protected from inheritance tax, but importantly, maintaining the original principle that tax avoiders should not use land to avoid tax at the expense of hard working family farmers such as the Scott Parks.

16:45

Dan Tomlinson MP, The Exchequer Secretary (Chipping Barnet, Labour)

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I thank my honourable. I thank my hon. Friend for his question and he makes an important point. Madam Deputy Speaker, if a an agriculture, Deputy Speaker, if a an agriculture, if a if someone has agricultural or business assets that are worth £2.5 million, for example, Madam Deputy Speaker, they'll now pay £300,000 less inheritance tax than they otherwise would have done. If they're worth 5 million, they'll be paying £600,000 less than they otherwise would have done before the before the changes that we announced last month.

And, Madam Deputy Speaker, the the challenge of the proposals from the opposition parties is that they would propose, for example, to provide £1 million tax cut to an estate worth £10 million. And their priority is clearly the very largest estates in this country, and giving them tax cuts worth millions or maybe even tens of millions of pounds, rather than raising revenue in a fair way to fund our public services.

16:46

Dr Ellie Chowns MP (North Herefordshire, Green Party)

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To Ellie Chowns. welcome. >> This change, as do I, but there are still huge problems with this policy. It doesn't even fix the tax policy. It doesn't even fix the tax loophole for people who buy up land to avoid tax, and is created huge amounts of economic damage and heartache in farming communities. So can I ask the Minister, first of all, why did it take more than a year to listen to farmers voices? And secondly, will the Treasury please engage brain before announcing policy in future? Listen to and work with farming communities.

16:47

Dan Tomlinson MP, The Exchequer Secretary (Chipping Barnet, Labour)

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Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. We will, of course, continue to engage with and listen to and work with farming communities in the policies that we're putting forward. And, Madam Deputy Speaker, it's now interesting to see and hear that the Green Party do not support at least one wealth tax.

16:47

Sean Woodcock MP (Banbury, Labour)

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Sean Woodcock. constituency, Banbury and Chipping Norton, for engaging constructively with me on this issue? Well, the vast majority of them anyway, and say that I know that they will welcome these changes as they will welcome the record £1.8 billion investment into sustainable farming and food production provided by this government. I know that they are also concerned by trade deals having been left high and dry by the previous government. So can the Minister confirm that this government will protect farmers, not sell them down the river, as was the previous Minister?

16:47

Dan Tomlinson MP, The Exchequer Secretary (Chipping Barnet, Labour)

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Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. Having grown up in rural West Having grown up in rural West Oxfordshire myself, I know the importance of farming and rural communities in the fantastic county of Oxfordshire, which now, thankfully Madam Deputy Speaker doesn't have a single conservative MP and long may that continue. And it is a very good thing, Madam Deputy Speaker, that we have strong Labour representatives in north Oxford, in in north Oxfordshire, who are continuing to fight the good fight for their communities.

16:48

John Lamont MP (Berwickshire, Roxburgh and Selkirk, Conservative)

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John Lamont. >> This partial. >> U-turn to the family farm tax is undoubtedly welcome. But does the undoubtedly welcome. But does the Minister understand the hell that heap is put farmers through? Not just in my constituency, but across the United Kingdom during the last 14 months, and he should do the right thing and scrap this dreadful, dreadful tax.

16:48

Chris Vince MP (Harlow, Labour )

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Yeah. >> Yeah. >> We will not be going ahead with his proposal of scrapping this change in time.

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change in time. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. Can I put on record my thanks to those farmers in my constituency, those farmers in my constituency, Harlow, who engage really productively over this issue, in particular on a tribute to Richard and Jack Scantlebury of Great Canfield. Can the Minister talk further about how the record investment of £11.8 billion into sustainable farming can help benefit farmers? In my Harlow like Jack and Richard?

16:49

Dan Tomlinson MP, The Exchequer Secretary (Chipping Barnet, Labour)

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Yeah. I thank my hon. Friend for his question. He's right that we're putting in that amount that's over the course of this Parliament to support innovation, to support agri tech, to support all of the things that our farming businesses can and should do to be able to invest and grow their businesses and to support their communities. That's the right thing to do. And it's turning the page on the chaos and the underfunding that we had in previous years. Speaker.

16:49

Richard Foord MP (Honiton and Sidmouth, Liberal Democrat)

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Minister. >> Minister. >> Said that this reversal of plans to introduce inheritance tax on many farming families has happened. many farming families has happened. Quote, after listening carefully to feedback from the farming community, this news just before Christmas was indeed a massive relief. But given that the farming community did not say anything in December, that it had not been saying for the previous 13 months, will the government listen properly in future?

16:50

Chris Hinchliff MP (North East Hertfordshire, Labour)

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The government will, yes, make sure we do continue to listen. Madam Deputy Speaker. >> Thank you, Claire. >> Thank you, Madam. >> Deputy Speaker, and I thank the Minister for listening and acting on the concerns that I and many on the concerns that I and many other Labour MPs raised alongside our farming constituents now that a happier compromise has been found on inheritance tax, the issue remains securing a profitable future for nature friendly farming in our country. So can the Minister provide an update on what actions the Treasury is taking to support the swift rollout of our manifesto commitment? For 50% of food bought by the public sector to be locally produced?

16:50

Dr Luke Evans MP (Hinckley and Bosworth, Conservative)

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I cannot update my hon. Friend at the House at this moment, but I would be happy to write to him on would be happy to write to him on that point. >> Doctor Luke Evans. >> Thank you, Madam. >> Deputy Speaker. >> The government. >> Said it's been listening

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Said it's been listening carefully. Will. It had 14 months and four votes to listen to this side and the farming community. So a question is what changed the government's mind. And number two, who made that decision? Was it the DEFRA secretary, the Prime Minister or the Chancellor? And how long did they take to persuade the other person to make that right decision?

16:51

Dan Tomlinson MP, The Exchequer Secretary (Chipping Barnet, Labour)

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Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. Government decisions are made Government decisions are made collectively and and yes, the government has listened to farming communities, to farming businesses and to the representatives of family businesses who would have also been affected by the change by the £1 million threshold in BPR, which is the same as the APR threshold. Gareth Davies Madam Deputy Speaker.

16:51

Jonathan Davies MP (Mid Derbyshire, Labour)

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It was very welcome news to hear that the government has revisited that the government has revisited the issues around Business Property Relief, which will help family businesses in my constituency, as well as Agricultural Property Relief, which means up to £5 million can be passed on by a qualified couple. But it was also right that the government considered this area as a whole because too many people, including famous folk off the telly, had bought these properties with a view to insulating themselves against attacks.

So can the Minister assure me that we will take steps to support our farming community by not selling them down the river with dodgy trade deals like we saw with Australia and New Zealand under the previous government, that we work closely with our European export partners, that we will ensure that the SFE, the subsidies get to where they need and that they'll be spent in a timely way. They went and spent under the previous government.

16:52

Dan Tomlinson MP, The Exchequer Secretary (Chipping Barnet, Labour)

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Yeah. >> Yeah. >> I thank my hon. Friend for his question. He's right to mention the disastrous trade deals that happened under the previous happened under the previous government, and I thank him for giving me the chance to mention the trade deals that we have implemented that have been seeking to support businesses across the country to be able to access more markets. And I hope that with our continued engagement with the European Union, we can continue to do that closer to home to Ben Lake.

16:52

Ben Lake MP (Ceredigion Preseli, Plaid Cymru)

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Can I ask. general commitment the government has previously made to ensure that all policy making considers the impact of such decisions on rural impact of such decisions on rural areas, and if the Treasury does subscribe to this rural proofing commitment, could you please elaborate how he will ensure that it is abided by in future, so as to ensure that rural communities, such as those in, are not subjected to yet another ordeal, such as we just received? Thank you, thank you.

16:53

Dan Tomlinson MP, The Exchequer Secretary (Chipping Barnet, Labour)

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I can reassure the hon. Member >> I can reassure the hon. Member that I and Ministers will continue that I and Ministers will continue to think through the impacts on rural communities and all communities when we come forward with changes to tax or other policy. And because we have done that, that's why we've come forward with the change that that we announced just before Christmas. And we will be making that change in the Finance Bill in in the coming weeks.

16:53

Katie Lam MP (Weald of Kent, Conservative)

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Thank you. Family farms and family businesses across the world of Kent have been through appalling emotional turmoil trying to work out how to avoid trying to work out how to avoid leaving their children unaffordable, crippling tax bills when they die. and I thank the hon. Member for her question to to those families and to people, you know, with farms and

16:54

Dan Tomlinson MP, The Exchequer Secretary (Chipping Barnet, Labour)

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businesses that would have maybe been affected by the lower threshold but will now be affected threshold but will now be affected less or not at all by the higher threshold. I would say that we have listened. I would say that over listened. I would say that over over recent months, we have heard the concerns that have been raised, and that's why we've raised the and that's why we've raised the threshold from £1 million to £2.5 million. That means that if you're million.

That means that if you're a couple, you can pass on up to £5 million of agricultural and business assets tax free on inheritance. And I, I would just briefly, Madam Deputy Speaker, remind the House that above that threshold, the tax rate is half the rate that everyone else pays 20% rather than 40%. And that and that those who pay it will have, will have ten years to pay. So interest free if they need to.

16:55

Cameron Thomas MP (Tewkesbury, Liberal Democrat)

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Cameron Thomas. Madam Deputy. members. >> Of society. And yet. >> Since autumn 2024, several have

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Since autumn 2024, several have spoken candidly with me of the mental health impact of the family farm tax in an industry which farm tax in an industry which suffers a rate of suicide four times the national average. The changes to the government's family farm tax are welcome. But will the government take this opportunity to apologise to Gloucestershire farmers for 14 months of torment? Yeah.

16:55

Dan Tomlinson MP, The Exchequer Secretary (Chipping Barnet, Labour)

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Madam Deputy Speaker, we have listened. We have made sure after after the engagement that we've had with, with farmers across the country, with their representatives and with the representatives of family businesses that we've come forward with a with a policy proposal that we now think on this side of the House is balanced. That raises £300 million, that that raises £300 million from the very largest estates and, and does so in a fair way. That means that we can continue to fund our public services sustainably.

16:56

Dr Ben Spencer MP (Runnymede and Weybridge, Conservative)

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Ben Spencer. >> Deputy Speaker. 14 months is a long time for farmers to have a sword of Damocles over their heads, and many still do, because this is and many still do, because this is only a partial partial U-turn in the policy. The Minister has said many, many times today that he is and has been listening to farmers. But would it take another 14 months

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before he hears them and scraps this policy altogether? We heard what farmers were

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We heard what farmers were saying, and that's why we've come forward with the changes that we've announced. Last month.

16:56

Dan Tomlinson MP, The Exchequer Secretary (Chipping Barnet, Labour)

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>> Jim McAllister. >> Thank you very much, Madam

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Thank you very much, Madam Deputy Speaker. Those are Farmers Union and Young Farmers Clubs have also made many representations here in regards to the damage that this

16:56

Jim Allister KC MP (North Antrim, Traditional Unionist Voice)

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in regards to the damage that this would have to Northern Ireland farms specifically. But there's one specific point I want to ask him on. He has mentioned a number of times about the allowance being passed between couples and civil partnerships. Example two of his own government paper says the two people, such as siblings who jointly own the farm, will be able to pass on the 5.65 million allowance. If there's a father and daughter, uncle, aunt, niece and nephew in a partnership, can they pass on that allowance as well? Saying he's the type Windsor.

16:57

Dan Tomlinson MP, The Exchequer Secretary (Chipping Barnet, Labour)

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They can each pass it on up to 2.5 million to whoever they would choose to pass it on to. But in the inheritance tax system more broadly, inheritance tax system more broadly, it is the case. Madam Deputy Speaker, that the that the various bans and allowances are only fully transferable between spouses and this is consistent with that policy. But it would be the case that if a farm was owned by a brother and a sister, that the brother could pass it up, up, up to 2.5 million to who? To whomever he wished, and the sister could pass up to 2.5 million to whomever she wishes.

That's what the example two that he is referring to gets at.

16:57

Dame Harriett Baldwin MP (West Worcestershire, Conservative)

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Harriett Baldwin. >> Thank you very much. Worcestershire's. >> Farmers have had to.

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Endure 14 months. Of sleepless nights over this policy. Before this partial U-turn, policy. Before this partial U-turn, the Minister has hinted at the Dispatch Box today that he appreciates that he's also going to have to U-turn on business property rates because of the transitional relief coming off too quickly. So can he commit to the House that he months?

16:58

Dan Tomlinson MP, The Exchequer Secretary (Chipping Barnet, Labour)

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Madam Deputy Speaker, we're >> Madam Deputy Speaker, we're having a discussion today about agriculture, Agricultural Property Relief and Business Property Relief, and I'm sure we'll have many and I'm sure we'll have many occasions in the coming weeks and months to continue to discuss the changes that the government have made on business rates to support businesses through the transition, because, of course, there has been a significant increase in their rateable values coming out of the pandemic. And I would just say to those members opposite that the changes to the rateable values and the valuation methodology was signed off under conservative Ministers, and we have made sure that we're providing support.

For example, business rates will be capped at 15% for many pubs this year.

16:59

Lisa Smart MP (Hazel Grove, Liberal Democrat)

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Lisa Smart very. >> Lisa Smart very. >> Much, Madam Deputy Speaker, it is wholly unacceptable that farming families in places like Melanie Onn families in places like Melanie Onn Halesowen have had over a year of uncertainty and anguish since the government first announced these tax hikes. The government got it wrong and these changes that we're talking about today are welcome. But could the Minister commit to consulting farming communities before making any future changes to taxes affecting farming communities? Because that was a step in the process that was missed, could have saved them 14 months of anguish.

Have they got it right last time?

16:59

Dan Tomlinson MP, The Exchequer Secretary (Chipping Barnet, Labour)

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Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker, because I signed them off, I can because I signed them off, I can tell the hon. Member that there are many consultations on tax changes that we publish alongside fiscal events. And if she wishes to engage with the with the consultation on electric vehicle taxation, she could do, if she wishes, to engage with the consultation on the High value Council tax surcharge that published shortly. She could do. There are many consultations that the government published on on tax changes and and and on those where formal consultations are not published, which, which isn't universal.

Then we continue to engage in detail with with those who are affected, which is what we've done with this change here.

17:00

Rt Hon Wendy Morton MP (Aldridge-Brownhills, Conservative)

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Wendy Morton Deputy Speaker The Minister, despite many opportunities, simply refuses to opportunities, simply refuses to apologise. So I'd like to ask him if he can explain to farmers, including mine in my constituency, who have been forced to live with fear and uncertainty for over 14 months, despite warnings from so many organisations, this tax would do real harm. What support is his department going to give to those families who've shelled out money for advice and families where his government has an irrevocable damage to the to their businesses, sir.

17:01

Dan Tomlinson MP, The Exchequer Secretary (Chipping Barnet, Labour)

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Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I've been asked that question already by a member opposite, but already by a member opposite, but I'm happy to give a similar answer, which is that to those to those families, what I can say is that we have been listening carefully to the representations that have been made about the level of the threshold, as it was originally set at the Budget in 2024, and we've now come forward with a change that will mean that the threshold will be at 2.5 million rather than 1 million.

And coupled with the changes that were announced at the Budget Budget 2025 that will now be transferable between spouses, allowing those taxes, that allowing those families to have up to £5 million tax free past.

17:01

Caroline Voaden MP (South Devon, Liberal Democrat)

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Past Caerfyrddin. Madam Deputy Speaker, and a happy New Year. I've stood here alongside my colleagues for 14 months, asking various Ministers to reconsider this policy, and farming organisations up and down the country have campaigned relentlessly for 14 months. Why did it take the government so long to listen to them? And wouldn't it be nice to hear somebody be able to stand up at the despatch box and just say, we're sorry we got this wrong, and we commit now to consult with the farming community and the rural community on any further changes to reliefs and taxation that will affect them for.

17:02

Dan Tomlinson MP, The Exchequer Secretary (Chipping Barnet, Labour)

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Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. >> Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. We have come forward with a change to this policy after listening to farmers, after listening to farming communities and to the representations that have been made, we think that this is the right change. We can have chance to debate it again at the Committee of the whole House and the Finance Bill next week, where the amendment that has been laid will be voted on. And in the end, members opposite who wish for us not to go ahead with this change at all, should come forward with ideas for how they would raise £300 million from from those who have the very largest estates in this country.

We think it's right to raise revenue from those with the very broadest shoulders. And that's what this change now will allow us to do.

17:03

Bradley Thomas MP (Bromsgrove, Conservative)

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Bradley Thomas UQ. >> Bradley Thomas UQ. >> Madam Deputy Speaker, after months of sleepless nights, fear and uncertainty, this partial U-turn is a victory for farmers, U-turn is a victory for farmers, and I'd like to pay tribute to farmers across the country, but particularly in my Bromsgrove and the villages constituency. Despite the U-turn, this should still be scrapped. I'd like to ask the Minister what he can say to farmers regarding incentives, but where is the incentive for a farm to invest in very expensive capital equipment, if it may tip them over the threshold, at which point the family farm tax becomes liable?

17:03

Dan Tomlinson MP, The Exchequer Secretary (Chipping Barnet, Labour)

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Minister. >> Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. Just to be clear, you know this this change only comes in for farms that are or for farming or business estates that are worth more than 2.5 million or 5 million if they're in a couple, there are still significant incentives to grow and invest in people's businesses. The tax rate is half the rate that it is for everyone else when they pay inheritance tax, if they have sufficient assets to get over the threshold, which is worth noting.

Madam Deputy Speaker, only around the very largest 10% of estates in the country pay any inheritance tax at all.

17:04

Brian Mathew MP (Melksham and Devizes, Liberal Democrat)

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Brian Mathew. >> Brian Mathew. >> Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. On behalf of the family farmers of Melksham and Devizes, can I point Melksham and Devizes, can I point out that farm prices differ across the UK and that raising that level of APR to say a flat 6 million, whether it belongs to a couple or an individual farmer would, would be a great help in terms of assuring farmers of the future, freeing them from worry and assuring their future, growing our food.

Thank you.

17:05

Dan Tomlinson MP, The Exchequer Secretary (Chipping Barnet, Labour)

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We think it's right to have the >> We think it's right to have the same level across the country. That's the same in other parts of our tax system. It wouldn't be right to have different, different right to have different, different tax thresholds for different small parts of the country. Allister.

17:05

Jim Allister KC MP (North Antrim, Traditional Unionist Voice)

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Thank you. I certainly welcome the increase in the threshold as far as it goes and commend the farm, far as it goes and commend the farm, the campaigning farmers who secured it. In explaining it today, the Minister said the government has got the balance right. But of course, those are the very words that this Minister used at this Dispatch Box and Westminster Hall in defending the £1 million threshold. And each time he did it, he caused torment and and anxiety to farming families.

Can the Minister is the Minister sorry for the anxiety caused needlessly to those farmers?

17:05

Dan Tomlinson MP, The Exchequer Secretary (Chipping Barnet, Labour)

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Well, welcome. The number of estates that will be affected by this change will fall by half as a result of the changes that the government announced late last year. After listening to the representations from various business and farming communities. We think that, you know, that will now mean. Madam Deputy Speaker, that rather than 285 would be closer to 175 estates a year affected. That's around 85% of estates won't pay any additional inheritance tax. And those that do, the vast majority of those that do will be paying significantly less now than they would have done before the change that we announced late last year.

17:06

Manuela Perteghella MP (Stratford-on-Avon, Liberal Democrat)

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Manuela Perteghella thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I welcome the Madam Deputy Speaker. I welcome the revised threshold changes, a first step in the right direction. And I thank the local farming community in South Warwickshire and Warwickshire, NFU for the tireless campaign. However, farmers across my constituency of Stratford-on-Avon tell me that the changes to Agricultural Property Relief have created many months of uncertainty, freezing investment and growth and the succession planning. Why did the Chancellor announce changes to the Agricultural Property Relief last year without meaningful, meaningful consultation with family farmers first? Yeah.

17:07

Dan Tomlinson MP, The Exchequer Secretary (Chipping Barnet, Labour)

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I thank the hon. Member for welcoming the changes that the government has come forward with. We did continue to engage with representatives from the farming community. I believe the Prime Minister mentioned how he'd been in conversation with Mr. Bradshaw from the NFU. And of course, as Ministers across government, we have listened to and engaged with the farming community. I myself went up to Hexham. The hon. Member has left for, I'm sure, other important businesses to meet with farmers in his constituency and all of those different forms of engagement have proved really very valuable indeed.

17:07

Adrian Ramsay MP (Waveney Valley, Green Party)

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Adrian Ramsay thank you, Madam. Waveney Valley are relieved at this. >> Change. >> But they're also frustrated that the government hasn't been listening about the underlying listening about the underlying causes of why it's so difficult for farmers to make even a living wage to put food on our table. It's been obvious from the outset that the government needed to review the threshold, so it's baffling that it took 14 months to do so. And my question to the Minister is, does he recognise the emotional and financial cost of this 14 month delay? Minister.

17:08

Dan Tomlinson MP, The Exchequer Secretary (Chipping Barnet, Labour)

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I do recognise that that there are many estates that would have are many estates that would have been affected by the lower threshold. Who, who, who now will, rather than having to pay the additional inheritance tax, will not be paying any inheritance tax at all. We've moved hundreds of estates out of paying additional inheritance tax, and we've also reduced the tax liabilities for those larger estates too, because we have listened.

17:08

Ian Roome MP (North Devon, Liberal Democrat)

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Ian Roome. >> Ian Roome. >> Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. Many of. >> My rural. >> Constituents in. >> North Devon are. Relieved that the government.

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the government. Has partly seen sense on this issue, given the track record of issue, given the track record of U-turns from this government. When I meet with a group of local farmers next week, what reassurance can I give them that the government will not change course on this policy again in the near future?

17:09

Dan Tomlinson MP, The Exchequer Secretary (Chipping Barnet, Labour)

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Minister Madam Deputy Speaker, the Finance Bill will be making its way through the House in the coming weeks and once the Finance Bill is law, Madam Deputy Speaker, that will be the change that will be coming forward. And I should I should say to him, if he meets his farmers on the 7th of April this year, the change will have already been in place.

17:09

Edward Morello MP (West Dorset, Liberal Democrat)

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Edward Morello Madam Deputy Speaker and a happy New Year. I want to pay tribute to the farmers want to pay tribute to the farmers of West Dorset, who have never stopped campaigning against this family farm tax, and especially those hardy ones that have repeatedly driven their tractors up to London to let their views known. This is just the latest in a numerous assaults by this government against our farming communities. And so I wonder if the Minister will take this opportunity to put on the record that this government will not agree to President Trump's demands as part of the US trade deal, that we accept more food imports at lower food standards.

17:10

Mr Lee Dillon MP (Newbury, Liberal Democrat)

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Yes, Minister. British businesses and British farmers in the deals that we strike with countries across the world. >> Lee Dillon. >> Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker,

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Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker, and Happy New Year constituents in Newbury, where I'm proud to Newbury, where I'm proud to represent, have really felt the burden in the last 14 months of this unfair family farm tax. I've hosted farmers up here in Parliament. I've invited all parliamentarians to come and meet them, and I'm proud that members, predominantly from opposition benches, have made that effort and that the government have actually started to listen. But I have family farms in my constituency that are still going to have to pay £600,000.

They will have to sell off their farms in order to pay those tax bills. So when the government table their amendment, will they table an assessment of those remaining farms and whether they're likely to be needed to be sold off to fit Labour's tax bills?

17:11

Dan Tomlinson MP, The Exchequer Secretary (Chipping Barnet, Labour)

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Yes, sir. >> Yes, sir. >> Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. The amendment has already been laid before the House. It sets out the changes that the government is making. And in the letter that all members will have received, we set out the our estimates of the fact that the number of estates we think will be affected will half and around 85% of farming estates. Those claiming APR sometimes with BPR, will not be paying any additional inheritance tax at all as a result of these changes.

Madam Deputy Speaker.

17:11

Claire Young MP (Thornbury and Yate, Liberal Democrat)

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Final question Claire Young. >> Final question Claire Young. >> Deputy Speaker. Looking at farm sizes and land values locally, I fear family farms will still be fear family farms will still be paying family farm tax. What evidence is there that 2.5 million realistically reflects the value of a typical family farm in a constituency with higher land values like Thornbury and Yate Winchester.

17:12

Dan Tomlinson MP, The Exchequer Secretary (Chipping Barnet, Labour)

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Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker, and may I thank all members on all sides of the House for their engagement on this important issue. engagement on this important issue. Today. We we have set the threshold at £2.5 million of a single person, 5 million for a couple. As a result of the changes that were announced at Budget 2025. And we think that that threshold is right and fair. It means that the number of estates that will be affected, the farming estates will be affected, will fall by half, and the vast majority will not pay any additional inheritance tax at all.

Madam Deputy Speaker.

17:12

Points of Order Dame Harriett Baldwin MP (West Worcestershire, Conservative)

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That is the end of the Urgent Question point of order. Dame Harriett Baldwin. >> Very much, Madam Deputy Speaker. Earlier, the Minister said that this Agricultural Property Relief was not available under Margaret was not available under Margaret Thatcher. In fact, it was Margaret Thatcher's government that brought it in under the Inheritance Act of 1984, and it was then subsequently increased to 100% under John Major. So how might I go about getting the Minister to correct the record?

17:13

Ms Nusrat Ghani MP (Sussex Weald, Conservative)

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The right hon. Lady, due to her >> The right hon. Lady, due to her experience, will know that the chair is not responsible for the content of members, nor the Ministers. If only we were. But she Ministers. If only we were. But she has no doubt got her point on the record, and we do not wish to continue the debate. Thank you. We are now getting ready for the next urgent question. Would Ministers like to swap over? like to swap over? Order like to swap over? Order before like to swap over? Order before we come to the urgent question on absconded prisoners, I should inform the House that one of the prisoners has been charged with escaping from lawful custody, and the matter is now sub judice.

Members should therefore avoid references to the specific circumstances of the individual case questions on the broader issue of public safety, which is the focus of this urgent question, are permissible, as are more general questions on security protocols in prison. So we come to the urgent question on absconded prisoners, and I call Robert Jenrick.

17:14

Rt Hon Robert Jenrick MP (Newark, Conservative)

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Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker, to ask the Secretary of State for justice if he will make a statement on the implications for public on the implications for public safety following the admission that two dangerous offenders, including a convicted murderer, have absconded from HMP Leyhill on New Year's Day.

17:14

Alex Davies-Jones MP, The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Justice (Pontypridd, Labour)

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Minister Alex Baker, thank you, Madam Deputy. Madam Deputy. >> Speaker, and a happy New Year to you on all in the House. On the 1st of January, three prisoners absconded from HMP Leyhill an open prison. Mr. Thomas, Mr. Washburn and Mr. Armstrong. This was discovered during routine checks and their absence was followed up immediately. On the 3rd of January 2026, the police issued a public appeal to assist with their recapture. One of the prisoners, as you have stated, Madam Deputy Speaker Aaron Thomas has since been arrested and is scheduled to appear before magistrates today.

He will then be returned to closed conditions. The other individuals remain unlawfully at large and police are actively pursuing them. The government takes every abscond seriously in line with the Prevention of absconding policy framework. The prison Group director for HMP Leyhill has commissioned a review. This review will be completed within 20 days. These individuals had been moved to open conditions at different points in 2025, after recommendations made by the Independent Parole Board. There was no recent intelligence regarding the potential abscond by these prisoners when it comes to an offender serving a life or an IPP, sentence like these prisoners are a transfer to open conditions will only be approved following a recommendation by the Parole Board, other than in exceptional circumstances.

Before making a recommendation, the Parole Board conducts a thorough risk assessment of the offender's risk of harm and risk of absconding. At the time that these risk assessments were completed, the prisoners were deemed suitable for open conditions. We are continuing to work with and engage with the victims and the victim's families, either through the Victim Contact scheme or via the police where relevant. Currently, we have made contact with two victims through the Victim Contact Scheme.

17:16

Rt Hon Robert Jenrick MP (Newark, Conservative)

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Robert Jenrick. Once again, the Justice Secretary's strongest ever checks have been a resounding failure. And once again, there is a manhunt underway. Precious police resources are being wasted to fix calamities. Latest up. And where is the Justice Secretary? The Ministry of Justice seems to lose its Secretary of State as much as it does its prisoners. Madam Deputy Speaker, has his aunt taken him to the January sales to find him a new suit, just in case he gets let loose on PMQs again? Let me ask the Minister instead.

Why was someone who robbed and brutally killed a man by bashing him on the head with a brick? A man who led a prison riot and attacked prison officers repeatedly deemed safe for open prison? Why, as we've just learned, did it take 48 hours for the police to raise the alarm? How many other murderers are there in open prisons? How many more mistaken releases have there been since the Justice Secretary last came clean? Once again, the safety of the public is being compromised by the breathtaking incompetence of his department.

And, well, what a Christmas it's been for the Justice Secretary on Boxing Day. He said he was delighted to welcome into Britain an extremist who hates our country. The following day, it was revealed he'd invited a disgraced Ex-labour politician convicted of spreading homophobic smears to his official swearing in as Lord Chancellor. Days later, he paid an Islamist double murderer thousands in compensation, alongside hundreds of thousands in legal fees, much to the justice secretary's own colleagues spouse. Then the prime minister's mentor, a leading KC who clapped him into Downing Street, slammed his shameful plan to slash jury trials.

And then, to top it all off, on New Year's Day, we learned that these prisoners have been let loose. Well, happy New Year from the Justice Secretary. It is little wonder that in his first interview of 2026, he said he was seeking divine retribution. Sorry, he meant to say divine intervention. Well, with more of this, God help us all.

17:18

Alex Davies-Jones MP, The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Justice (Pontypridd, Labour)

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Minister. >> Madam Deputy Speaker, I'm afraid it's a new year. But the same sad old generic. The hon. Gentleman clearly hasn't done his homework. He doesn't seem to know the He doesn't seem to know the difference between releases an error and absconds. This is a member who wants to be the Lord Chancellor and the next Leader of the Opposition. He is deliberately muddying the waters here to suit his own agenda. And whilst watching the deep rooted, seeing the deep rooted issues caused by years of chronic underfunding and mismanagement by his government play out, the crisis that our prisons face today was built up over 14 years and the Tories are the chief architects.

This didn't happen overnight. Madam Deputy Speaker, it was not inevitable. It was the choice of the party opposite made again and again. For 14 years they abandoned their posts and public safety at risk by allowing our prisons to reach bursting point. He talks about public safety. They left our prisons at breaking point with not enough room to lock up any dangerous criminals. If it weren't for the decisive action that this government took, the police would have been unable to make any arrests, courts would have ceased to function, and there would have been a breakdown of law and order unlike anything we have seen in modern times.

Those who abscond face serious consequences. We take our responsibilities very seriously, and that is one of the reasons that there has been a dramatic fall in the number of absconders over the last 20 years. It is one of the success stories that the Tories actually have in government, and he should celebrate that, because elsewhere their record is much less rosy. As they were packing their bags to leave office, temporary release failures were hitting a 13 year high under their watch. The prison system was in absolute chaos and they presided.

Over 17 releases, an error a month in their last security and safety, where they oversaw violent crime and crumbling courts and prisons. Madam Deputy Speaker, in order to cover up for their failures, they covertly let out 10,000 prisoners early as part of their chaotic early release scheme. The Tories claim to be the party of law and order. Instead, their legacy was lawless disorder, and now they have the audacity to come to this house and make demands as if they've never been in government, as if they had never, ever oversaw a crisis in our criminal justice system.

And what is the member opposite solution to this crisis? To do nothing, to ignore the evidence that places people in open conditions, to help them prepare for life outside and reduce their risk of reoffending, to turf people out of prison with no support and hope that everything just turns out okay. They are not serious people. They are not serious or ready for government. They have no solutions to the problems that they created.

17:21

Andy Slaughter MP (Hammersmith and Chiswick, Labour)

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Select Committee Chair Andy Slaughter. in the. >> Light of these escapes. From a class D prison. Will the government look again at the policy and process for moving prisoners to open prisons earlier in their sentence as a consequence of prison overcrowding? Does this legacy of the previous government mean prisoners may be located to prisons because of the space available, rather than the suitability for the type of offender?

17:21

Alex Davies-Jones MP, The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Justice (Pontypridd, Labour)

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So I. >> I thank the chair of the Select Committee for his question and for the probing here. He will be aware that in order to deal with the that in order to deal with the crisis and prison capacity that the Tories left us, this is what we had to do. This was a policy that began under the Conservatives in terms of moving prisoners to open prisons, and typically they tried to keep quiet about it when they were in government. We have been open and transparent.

We have looked at exactly how we've done this as part of our strategy to deal with overcrowding and thankfully, through our Sentencing Bill, which the Tories are trying to wreck, by the way, we will ensure that our prisons never, ever reach breaking point again. But open prisons are part of the course for rehabilitation. They are part of ensuring that we make better citizens rather than better criminals. And it is part of a conservative government's that these have worked and operate effectively.

17:22

Jess Brown-Fuller MP (Chichester, Liberal Democrat)

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Liberal Democrat spokesperson Jess Brown-Fuller. >> Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. >> The news that offenders absconded from HMP Leyhill on New Year's Day is yet another example Year's Day is yet another example of the glaring incompetence of the MoJ when it comes to maintaining control of the prison population. This situation has yet again placed the public at risk and lets down victims. It also raises some serious questions about why some of these prisoners were placed in a category D prison. Matthew Armstrong, a convicted murderer, has a history of violent incidents in custody, including leading a riot and attacking prison guards.

Given this record, why did the Moj feel able to approve his transfer to an open prison? What steps is this government taking to review the criteria for violent offenders being assessed for transfer to category D prisons, when they could pose a risk to the public? Again, what additional resources are being provided to the victims of these individuals, including the no longer serving prison officer assaulted by Armstrong? I hope lessons are being learned in the case of Lenny Scott. And does the Minister believe that poor transfer decisions are being made based on a lack of capacity in our closed prisons? Or is she satisfied that the process is by the parole board and the department are strong enough? And can she reassure the House now that we won't be coming back to have this same conversation again in 2026?

17:23

Alex Davies-Jones MP, The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Justice (Pontypridd, Labour)

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Minister. Thank you, Madam. >> Deputy Speaker, and I welcome the questions from the Liberal Democrat spokesperson to reassure the House offenders who are serving a life or an IPP sentence will only a life or an IPP sentence will only be approved for a transfer to open conditions in response to a recommendation by the Parole Board. Before making that recommendation, the Parole Board conducts a thorough risk assessment of the offender's risk of harm and risk of absconding, taking into account all of those assessments provided by qualified MPs, staff and other agencies.

The Secretary of State does have the ability to reject a recommendation from the Parole Board, but to do so they would need evidence to dispute the board's assessment of risk. Officials, on behalf of the Secretary of State, concluded that there were no grounds for the published policy to reject the board's recommendations for any of these three individuals on absconding more generally. Madam Deputy Speaker, I think it is important that I lay this to the House and state this quite categorically that there were 57 absconds in the year ending March 2025.

There is a 2% decrease from 58 absconds the previous year, and the number of absconds is falling year on year, falling from 143 in the 12 months to March 2020, coming down substantially due to a sustained focus on this area. Open prisons do work. They are part of a key programme of rehabilitation and getting offenders reintegrated back into society. However, sometimes prisoners do abscond and it is important that all steps are taken to bring them back into custody. When that occurs.

17:25

Alex McIntyre MP (Gloucester, Labour)

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Alex McIntyre. >> Thank you. >> A bit of amnesia as it's the new year, because I can't seem to recall any circumstances where the shadow Secretary of State raised in this House the 143 of what's happened under his government's watch. But perhaps it's only when there's a leadership bid in the offing that he cares about this issue. But will my hon. Friend set out what steps she has taken to ensure that these prisoners are returned to custody, and what measures are in place to deter prisoners absconding in future.

17:25

Alex Davies-Jones MP, The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Justice (Pontypridd, Labour)

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I welcome the question from my hon. Friend. He is right. Amnesia seems to be going around a lot faster these days. In opposition, in July last year, the government published a new policy framework as well as refreshing internal security frameworks, a new policy framework that sets out definitions, reporting expectations and response requirements. We are working with all relevant agencies, including the police and the public, following the public appeal that went out on the 3rd of January, getting everyone behind the appeal to bring these prisoners back into conditions.

17:26

Dr Neil Shastri-Hurst MP (Solihull West and Shirley, Conservative)

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Select Committee Member Doctor Neil Shastri-Hurst. Neil Shastri-Hurst. >> Thank you very much. Since October. Last year, five people October. Last year, five people have absconded from Leyhill. That suggests some systemic issues around both security and licensing arrangements. I suspect those are not bespoke just to Leyhill, but across the wider open prison estate. With that in mind, what has the Minister's department done to tighten those arrangements to ensure that this doesn't happen not prison?

17:26

Alex Davies-Jones MP, The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Justice (Pontypridd, Labour)

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I thank him for that question as he will be aware from my previous answers. Absconds have actually answers. Absconds have actually decreased across our prison estates. They've come down 2% on the previous year. However, whenever an abscond happens, a rapid review will take place. A rapid review is taking place into the absconds at HMP Leyhill that will be done within 20 days, and I will ensure that that review is brought forward. Juss.

17:27

Warinder Juss (Wolverhampton West, Labour)

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Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker, any prisoner absconding is, of course, bad news and something that should not happen. But does the Minister agree that this is a symptom of a broken down prison symptom of a broken down prison system that we inherited from the previous government, and something that we are now trying to sort out? And can she please also confirm that the rate of prisoners absconding under this government is still less compared to what it was under the previous government?

17:27

Alex Davies-Jones MP, The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Justice (Pontypridd, Labour)

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My hon. Friend is right. The levels are decreasing and that is levels are decreasing and that is due to our strong and robust frameworks that we are putting in place on absconding prisons. We inherited a prison system on the brink of collapse, and we took immediate action on coming into office days after coming into office to stabilise our prisons. We are bearing down on releases, an error which has caused huge upset and concern to victims and can put the public at risk, which is wholly unacceptable.

And I state that again, at the despatch box, we have introduced mandatory stronger release checks to catch those errors before they happen, as that is the most effective way of protecting the public. And we have Dame Lynne Owens examining the causes of releases in error. But on absconding particularly, those numbers are coming down. I'm proud of the work that has been done. Any absconding, any obstruction is one too many and we are working to bring that number down even further.

17:28

Rt Hon Esther McVey MP (Tatton, Conservative)

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Esther McVey thank you, Madam. >> Deputy Speaker. >> The police have said that the prisoners who absconded from the open prison HMP Leyhill are open prison HMP Leyhill are dangerous and should not be approached by the public. How can approached by the public. How can any prisoner described as dangerous and should not be approached be in an open prison? It defies logic. Minister.

17:28

Alex Davies-Jones MP, The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Justice (Pontypridd, Labour)

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The hon. Lady will be aware that the decision regarding the Parole Board recommendations to move prisoners to open prisons is one prisoners to open prisons is one that has been carried out through successive governments. This is a policy decision that is carried out. The Parole board makes independent decisions and at the time of those risk assessments, there were no concerns raised as to the risk of harm to the public or on absconding on any of the prisoners that have absconded. Madam.

17:29

Catherine Atkinson MP (Derby North, Labour)

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Deputy Speaker. When we see offenders abscond from prison, it's understandable that many people will feel unsafe and our thoughts are particularly with victims and their friends and family. Does the Minister agree that absconding is not only a serious criminal offence, but it is also a symptom of years of austerity and chronic underfunding, which where we saw our prison system absolutely pushed to breaking point.

17:29

Alex Davies-Jones MP, The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Justice (Pontypridd, Labour)

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Yeah. Friend. Again, this is just another symptom of the crisis that of which we inherited regarding our criminal justice system. Be that prisons, courts, probation. Every single aspect of this was at breaking point from following 14 years of underfunding and mismanagement from the party opposite. We are working as quickly as we can to bring the two prisoners who have absconded back to justice. My thoughts are with the victims. We have made contact with two of the victims and their families via the victim Contact scheme, and I would encourage the public to get behind the public police appeal on bringing these prisoners to justice.

17:30

Sarah Pochin MP (Runcorn and Helsby, Reform UK)

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Sarah Pochin. Thank you, Madam. >> Deputy Speaker, can. >> The Minister tell the House what steps are being taken to ensure steps are being taken to ensure prisons are adequately staffed with properly trained and equipped guards with long overdue IT systems updated to ensure escapes across the whole prison network do not continue to happen.

17:30

Alex Davies-Jones MP, The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Justice (Pontypridd, Labour)

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I welcome that question from the hon. Lady. She's correct. That is hon. Lady. She's correct. That is why we are investing into the IT systems in our prisons needed to reduce these releases in error. We are investing in our brilliant, brave men and women who are our prison officers, who are serving on the front line, working for us day in, day out, in very difficult conditions, who have been chronically underfunded for the last 14 years. These are brilliant service people who deserve our praise and I pay tribute to them here in the dispatch, the Dispatch Box.

They are working in really difficult conditions, but we are investing in them and in the technology to help them in their everyday job.

17:31

Emily Darlington MP (Milton Keynes Central, Labour)

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Emily Darlington thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. Some some.

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think it's. Still pantomime. Season rather than taking this issue with the seriousness that it issue with the seriousness that it deserves. Can I ask the Minister what is the consequence for a what is the consequence for a scolding from a from an open prison? Because being in an open prison is

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Because being in an open prison is a privilege and part of the rehabilitation. It is not a right of any prisoner to be there. I think that is a very good

17:31

Alex Davies-Jones MP, The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Justice (Pontypridd, Labour)

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>> I think that is a very good point. The prisoners here who have absconded were at the end of their sentences. They were working through rehabilitation in order to reintegrate into into society. And these prisoners have let themselves down. They've let their families down. They've let the victims down. They have basically come to the end of the marathon and the final mile, and they have now let themselves down. What will happen now is that they will be returned back to closed conditions, and potentially have more time added to their sentence if that is something that the courts determine.

But we need to be careful regarding cases that are ongoing.

17:32

Blake Stephenson MP (Mid Bedfordshire, Conservative)

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Blake Stephenson Madam Deputy Speaker with two. Speaker with two. >> Dangerous offenders on the run. Many of our constituents quite, quite rightly, will be very quite rightly, will be very concerned and very worried. Could the Minister please explain what resources are being deployed to capture these offenders as soon as possible?

17:32

Alex Davies-Jones MP, The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Justice (Pontypridd, Labour)

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I welcome the question from the member. When a prisoner absconds member. When a prisoner absconds from open conditions, the prison must notify the police immediately so that officers can locate and return the individual to custody. Local governors have a very good working relationship with their local police forces. To keep in constant communication about efforts to locate prisoners who are unlawfully at large, including whether or not there will be a public appeal. The member will be aware the police launched a public appeal on the 3rd of January to assist them in locating these prisoners, and I would encourage anyone in the public who spots them not to approach them, but to alert their local police force so we can bring these prisoners back to custody.

17:32

Perran Moon MP (Camborne and Redruth, Labour)

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Perran Moon whereas, Madam Deputy Speaker, once again, the opposition has clearly absconded from reality. Can the Minister remind the House what the previous government of which the Shadow Minister was part, actually did to clamp down on abscond? No.

17:33

Alex Davies-Jones MP, The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Justice (Pontypridd, Labour)

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Nothing. >> Madam Deputy Speaker, absolutely nothing. The trend reducing absconded prison has actually decreased under the last Labour government and did carry on under government and did carry on under the Tories. However, they had a failure. The lowest record ever was down this year. We are down again on 2%. However, a failure to take get to grips with this, a failure in funding our prisons, effectively a failure in funding our probation system, in looking at our prisons, in our crumbling infrastructure by the party office as a result in this crisis in our prisons.

It is this party that is getting on with the job of cleaning up the mess of the party opposite.

17:33

Ben Obese-Jecty MP (Huntingdon, Conservative)

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Ben Obese-Jecty. >> The Minister was. >> Very keen to take credit for the reduced rate of obstructions under this government. Could she outline what specific steps this government has taken in order to reduce that, that has caused the reduction of that rate? And can she reassure the public that every single one less the two that are currently at large, re-apprehended?

17:34

Alex Davies-Jones MP, The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Justice (Pontypridd, Labour)

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No. I welcome the question by >> No. I welcome the question by the hon. Member, and I congratulate him on his happy news over the Christmas break. It is lovely for us to have some positive news to celebrate in this place, Madam Deputy Speaker. This government in April of 2025, introduced new changes to the general eligibility for open conditions from three years to five years. Plus, we strengthened those mandatory checks and on an OAS review, VLO notifications, mandatory seven day per transfer review, mandatory security inputting.

So we did up the assessments necessary for a prisoner to be moved into open prisons. Under this government, we are reducing the numbers of abstentions. As I've said, a 2% decrease this year on last year, and we are hoping to go further because open conditions do work. It is about rehabilitation and tagging works, which is why we're investing 700 million into probation to increase tagging and increase probation. But as of those 57, I don't have the figures to hand. I would happily write to him with those figures.

17:34

Chris Vince MP (Harlow, Labour )

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Chris Vince. >> Chris Vince. >> Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. As a former maths teacher, I'll be very interested to see the trends with regards to and actually the, with regards to and actually the, the, the, the moving average over a period of time. However, they ultimately one abstention abstention from by a dangerous criminal is one too many. Can I ask more specifically what the Minister is doing to support and train prison staff to ensure they understand the system and this increase the increased checks that she mentioned previously?

17:35

Alex Davies-Jones MP, The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Justice (Pontypridd, Labour)

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No. >> No. >> I welcome that positive question from my hon. Friend. He's right that this this is going to take all of us working together across the of us working together across the prison system, everyone in HMPPS. And again, I pay tribute to our brilliant staff who are working on the front line in very difficult, challenging conditions every single day in an underfunded, chronically in chaos prison system that we are having to rebuild brick by brick, literally having to rebuild brick by brick.

Our staff are our biggest asset in this, and we are working with them and the trade unions to ensure that they have all the equipment and tools and training necessary to ensure that the conditions come down.

17:35

Claire Young MP (Thornbury and Yate, Liberal Democrat)

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Final question Claire Young. >> Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. My constituents are concerned that high risk violent prisoners are increasingly being placed in increasingly being placed in Leyhill open prison between local residents at risk when they abscond. Will the Minister review the process for assessing prisoners prior to a move? And with new rapid deployment deployment sales expected to be online at Leyhill by the summer, will she meet me to discuss what steps the government is taking, both to ensure they will not be used for high risk prisoners and to increase security to prevent escapes? Well, the.

17:36

Alex Davies-Jones MP, The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Justice (Pontypridd, Labour)

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hon. Lady will be aware that the policy regarding recommendations for moving to an open prison is one done by the Independent Parole done by the Independent Parole Board. That is a policy that has been carried out by successive governments. I will ensure that she receives a meeting with the receives a meeting with the appropriate Minister to discuss her concerns further. There will be a review into the concerns at HMP Leyhill that will be done within 20

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days. But again, I will make sure she has that meeting with the appropriate Minister. That is end of the urgent

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That is end of the urgent question on offender absconding. I'll give the frontbench a few I'll give the frontbench a few moments to shuffle over. I'll come to the urgent question. Impact of the Northern Ireland Troubles Bill on armed forces recruitment and

17:37

Urgent question: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence if he will make a statement on the impact of the Northern Ireland Troubles Bill on armed forces recruitment and retention

on armed forces recruitment and retention. I call the shadow Secretary James Cartlidge. >> Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker, to ask the Secretary of State for defence if he will make a statement on the impact of the Northern Ireland Troubles Bill on Armed forces recruitment and Retention.

17:37

Al Carns MP, Parliamentary Under-Secretary (Ministry of Defence) (Minister for Veterans) (Birmingham Selly Oak, Labour)

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Minister Al Carns. renewing the contract with those who serve and our commitment is reflected in our actions. That is why we have given our armed forces the largest pay rise in 20 years, committed to invest 9 billion to fix forces homes scrapped 100 out of date medical policies for entry standards created novel ways of entry, including our new gap year scheme and a direct entry into Cyber Pathway. With its first cohort graduate in November and over Christmas, this government funded travel for up to 35,000 service personnel to be with their families over the festive period, and the government's actions are having an effect on recruitment.

Inflow continues to improve and is up 13% this year compared compared with September 2020. For applications to join the armed forces and intakes to basic training, both continue to remain high on retention under the Conservatives. Morale. Morale had been falling year on year with more people leaving than joining. We have started to reverse that decline with an 8% reduction in outflow this year compared with September 2020. For the question refers to the impact of the Troubles Bill. The government has brought forward the Troubles Bill to effectively and legally deal with the legacy of the Troubles in Northern Ireland.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, it is not lost on me the complexity of dealing with this issue. The reality is the previous Legacy act did not have unfaltering support and we are focussed on navigating a workable route through this incredibly emotive and difficult topic in a fair and proportionate manner. The military cohorts most impacted by the legacy processes are those at the very tip of the spear. There is no evidence to suggest that this bill has had an impact on recruitment or indeed the retention. The House will understand that we do not comment on matters of special forces.

But let me echo what the Defence Secretary has said directly to the community. We have your back. I am assured my interactions with those in the command of or serving in our special forces, and they continue to deliver at the very front edge of the nation's effort to counter the threats that we and the UK face. You have my support and this government's unequivocal support. The government owes all those who serve in defence of peace during the Troubles an immense debt of gratitude. We understand the immense psychological toll.

Legacy proceedings can have and the concern of veterans community. We're working closely with representatives of veterans, the Armed forces community to understand their concerns and ensure that this bill meets their need. But to link recruitment and retention with the Northern Ireland Legacy Act is incorrect.

17:39

James Cartlidge MP (South Suffolk, Conservative)

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James Cartlidge. >> Thank you. >> And thank you for granting this urgent question, Madam Speaker. Our Legacy Act ensured that those who Legacy Act ensured that those who served bravely in Northern Ireland could sleep soundly in their beds at night, knowing they would not be hauled before the courts for protecting all of us from terrorism decades ago. But when our act was challenged in the courts instead of appealing, Labour immediately caved and are now scrapping those protections. This will reopen cases such as local from 1987, where IRA members were shot whilst mounting a bomb attack on a police station.

Having fired first on the army. Local involved 24 SAS soldiers. So is it no wonder that on the 30th of December, seven senior former SAS officers wrote an extraordinary letter stating and I quote commanders now hesitate, fearing years of litigation. Troops feel abandoned. This self-sabotage needs no foreign hand in this Troubles Bill the government is complicit in this war on our armed forces. The Minister knows the operational importance of special forces as much as anyone. Does he recognise the huge hit to morale if cases like Loughgall are restarted because of the Troubles Bill, of course the government will say we need the Troubles Bill to pursue unsolved IRA crimes.

But as the Prime Minister's own appointed Northern Ireland Veterans Commissioner, David Johnson, warned last week, soldiers may be dragged before the courts, but IRA terrorists walk free because the weapons they used were decommissioned without forensic testing. So wasn't the commissioner right to say that veterans are treated, and I quote, worse than terrorists? Furthermore, last October, the government said the Troubles Bill would contain protections specifically for veterans. Can the Minister confirm that all the protections in the bill also apply to terrorists? To conclude, in November, eight retired four star generals and an air chief marshal described the Troubles Bill as I quote and as I quote, a direct threat to national security.

The letter from seven former SAS officers said they are, and I quote, not asking for immunity. They simply want fair procedures and decisive political leadership. With the threats we face and the need to maximise recruitment and retention, can the Minister show some decisive political leadership of his own and scrap the Troubles Bill?

17:42

Al Carns MP, Parliamentary Under-Secretary (Ministry of Defence) (Minister for Veterans) (Birmingham Selly Oak, Labour)

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Yes. Minister. Can. >> Madam Deputy Speaker, I think it is important that if the shadow Defence Secretary had raised a question on recruitment retention, that we look at the record of his that we look at the record of his own government. Military morale fell to record lows under your government, with just 4 in 10 personnel in the UK armed forces, satisfied with service life satisfaction fell from 60% to 40% in 2024. And is that surprising? With real terms pay cuts in nine out of 14 years, they were in power with over 13,000 complaints in a single year.

So I won't be lectured by the hon. Gentleman on this issue. And to mention that the Madam Deputy Speaker to mention that I have an insight to the operational imperative of our forces. The tip of the spear, I would suggest, is a slight underestimation. I would argue there are several people here that understand it. One of which is stood here, one of which isn't sat down opposite. Now, what I would say is we're left with a mess. And our Northern Ireland veterans were in a legal Wild West because of what you did with the last Legacy Act.

No party in Northern Ireland agreed or supported it. We had to sort it. This government will not allow that to continue. So let me be very clear. We are listening. We've spoken to the RBL, we've spoken to associations. I speak to the military cohorts on a daily, if not weekly basis. I speak to Northern Ireland Veterans Commissioner almost every day, and we are working collaboratively and collectively to ensure the Bill is fit for purpose, protects the individuals and ensures that those individuals and the process does not become the punishment and ensures that we don't allow any terrorist organisation to rewrite history through the courts.

17:43

Mr Tanmanjeet Singh Dhesi MP (Slough, Labour)

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Select Committee chair. solution, the Legacy Act 2023, was opposed by all the political parties in Northern Ireland and was found to be unlawful by our courts and therefore needed to be replaced. It's also clear that the solution to this complex issue must ensure justice, must be legal, and must actually ensure that our veterans feel that they have been protected and that they their service has been celebrated. So can the Minister confirm that nobody who perpetrated terrorist atrocities during the Troubles will be given immunity? And how exactly will the government protect veterans from repeated, repeated investigations?

17:44

Al Carns MP, Parliamentary Under-Secretary (Ministry of Defence) (Minister for Veterans) (Birmingham Selly Oak, Labour)

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I'd like to thank the hon. Friend for his comments. The Friend for his comments. The reality is that the last bill was opposed by every part of the Northern Ireland system and groups across both military and civilians within Northern Ireland. It left our veterans in a legal Wild West. That's the reality. The honest answer is that our military will always adhere to the law and work to the highest levels of the law, and this this new act in itself allows us to protect that cohort from the process, through legality is becoming the punishment and importantly, ensure that individuals cannot rewrite history.

For the first time. We will have specific protections put in place to support our veterans. We will protect them from repeated investigations. There will be their legal duty to consider our veterans welfare, and we will ensure that no veteran will have to attend or go to Northern Ireland by giving evidence from home. These protections have been designed by the veterans discussions through me and with various people across the MoD to ensure those protections are in place to protect our veterans.

17:45

James MacCleary MP (Lewes, Liberal Democrat)

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Spokesperson James MacCleary. Legacy Act failed victims, survivors and veterans alike by removing legal avenues to justice and eroding public trust. So elements of the government's new bill are welcome, particularly desire to move towards reconciliation and information recovery. However, these aims cannot come at the expense of justice, fairness or the rights of those who served. Our concern is not with shielding wrongdoing. It is with ensuring fairness for those who acted within the law as it stood at the time.

Veterans must not be left exposed to uncertainty or retrospective judgement without clear legal protection. Recruitment and retention in our armed forces is already an acknowledged challenge, given the existing flaws in this bill, an impact in this area could only further the case against it. So, can the Minister tell me what steps he has taken to protect personnel who served during the Troubles, whose actions followed the laws of the day, and given the extreme concern across the armed forces community of the impact this legislation could have, will he consider halting this bill and replacing it with one which puts veterans at its heart?

17:47

Al Carns MP, Parliamentary Under-Secretary (Ministry of Defence) (Minister for Veterans) (Birmingham Selly Oak, Labour)

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Mr. >> I've been really clear. I've been working with veterans across the whole of the UK and with Northern Ireland and the Northern Ireland and the commissioners to ensure that the protections we put in place are written into legislation and well thought through to ensure that this process does not become the punishment. People have said in Northern Ireland the prospects of prosecution are vanishingly small. We must also ensure amongst those veterans that other groups and families and lost loved ones throughout the troubled get to truth, reconciliation and justice.

But in doing so, we must protect our veterans moving forward. Those six protections we're going to put in place, we're going to get five of them straight into the bill itself, written into law. And the sixth one, the protocol to ensure no cold calling. We're working through at the moment to ensure that anybody that is required to give evidence remotely not going to Northern Ireland is engaged, either through the MoD or indeed through some of the regimental associations. The main aim of our veterans was to help me articulate how we could remove this process, becoming wielded as a punishment on those that served our country so valiantly and honourably in Northern Ireland.

17:48

Alex Ballinger MP (Halesowen, Labour)

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Alex Ballinger. can I suggest that the Armed Forces Minister has been too modest? He mentioned the September figures for the increase in recruitment, but December figures were just released a couple of days ago, and they show a 20% increase in recruitment to the armed forces over the last year for 2170 additional personnel have been recruited over the year before, and rather than the accusations from the party opposite, might it be the two above inflation pay rises this government has granted to our personnel? Might it be the £9 billion increase in armed forces housing, after the decrepit state of the housing estate left by the last government? Or might it be the 2.6% of GDP? We're investing in the military, which was never reached under the last 14 years of the last Labour government.

17:48

Al Carns MP, Parliamentary Under-Secretary (Ministry of Defence) (Minister for Veterans) (Birmingham Selly Oak, Labour)

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Sir. Friend for his his list. The reality is that this government has come into into into power. It's put in place very clear, concise programme to increase both recruitment and retention. The list armed Forces discovery scheme Zigzag career cyber direct entry graduates first cohort November 25th scrapping a huge amount of red tape left by the last government. If you had athlete's foot as a child, you couldn't join the military. You needed at least multiple sets of medical records.

It was ridiculous. Financial retention incentives and and individuals across the other side of the floor can say they know, but they did nothing about it. I lived it, begun. Single living accommodation review Christmas travel payment. There's some there's great comments coming from the other side, but they did nothing about it. We've done it and as a result we are seeing the increased recruitment by 13% and a reduction outflow by 8% for the first time in 14 years. Jopp.

17:49

Lincoln Jopp MP (Spelthorne, Conservative)

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Thank you. Madam Deputy Speaker. >> As. >> The Shadow. >> Defence Secretary was reading out the letter from the squadron leaders and warrant officers.

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leaders and warrant officers. Which was. Published over the Christmas break. I looked across and saw the Secretary of State and two defence Ministers all shaking their heads, and I was very surprised. And so we've had the feedback from the numerous generals, and we've had the feedback from the squadron commanders and from the warrant officers. So can I just understand where the Minister is coming from? Why does he think he is right and that they are wrong?

17:50

Al Carns MP, Parliamentary Under-Secretary (Ministry of Defence) (Minister for Veterans) (Birmingham Selly Oak, Labour)

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Yes, Minister. the hon. Member from the other side of the bench and he has experience in Northern Ireland. During the Troubles. I served in 2003, in Northern Ireland after the Troubles. The reality is we do respect their views. We absolutely do. We also respect the statistics of those that are currently serving that we've looked through. Within the MoD as a whole. I would welcome a discussion with many of the individuals who've mentioned. Since some of the articles came out in the press, I've discussed multiple times with several of them, and we need to work together to make sure that they are comfortable with the act and the bill as it moves forward, and we're doing so on top of that.

We've spoken to the RBL and other veterans as well. But the reality is, when we come down to the base common denominator, the statistics show there is not a recruitment and retention issue caused by the Northern Ireland Legacy Act. The moral, the physical and the conceptual components are critical to fighting power, as you will know. But the conceptual and the moral component, some cases are too. As to one, we must sure this act protects veterans going forward. That is what I will do. That's what I will ensure.

And we will protect the moral component.

17:51

Peter Swallow MP (Bracknell, Labour)

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Peter Swallow. >> Madam Deputy Speaker, will my honourable and gallant friend take this opportunity to welcome the 156 this opportunity to welcome the 156 new recruits starting last week at Royal Military Academy Sandhurst in my constituency, putting the academy well on track to meet its its recruitment targets for this year. Hey.

17:51

Al Carns MP, Parliamentary Under-Secretary (Ministry of Defence) (Minister for Veterans) (Birmingham Selly Oak, Labour)

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I'd like to thank the hon. Friend for his point. I've visited Sandhurst several times since I've been in this role and in my last role. It is the best leadership academy that you can go to in the country and to serve, to lead. It is absolutely essential. The 156 cadets that have just started, I'm sure will progress and graduate with flying colours, and I look forward to them serving in the military and enjoying their service through a fulsome and wholesome career.

17:52

Rt Hon David Davis MP (Goole and Pocklington, Conservative)

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Sir David Davis. >> Sir David Davis. >> The Minister, said that. >> Veterans will have government support and I'm sure that's what he support and I'm sure that's what he intends. But the hard reality of the bill that he is defending is it will lead to coroners court inquiries into decisions taken the fraction of a second 40 years ago. And the best way to look at that is look at what's happened already described by the senior judge who oversaw the judicial review of the inquiry.

He said in this challenge, this court is being asked to slow the passage of time down, to analyse events in freeze frame and to address the issue of absolute necessity in slow motion. It is ludicrous to suggest that this court should should analyse the events of the day in question in that manner, but that's what will happen with Loughgall and all of the other issues that will come before those courts, and our brave and honourable soldiers will be humiliated in that process.

And that's why, Minister, the process is the punishment for.

17:53

Al Carns MP, Parliamentary Under-Secretary (Ministry of Defence) (Minister for Veterans) (Birmingham Selly Oak, Labour)

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Again, I thank the hon. Member for his comments. The reality is, 90% of all casualties in Northern Ireland were caused by terrorists, and it's not lost on me. The context is often lost in today's society. That is why it is essential. As we move forward, we ensure that the coroner, coroners, individuals holding the inquest and indeed the Legacy Commission have the best operational context and advice as they progress. As the inquest showed, if we don't agree with the findings and we will judicially review it, and that's what I did in Clonoe and we'll do it again if we need to.

We must protect the process, becoming a punishment and looking back retrospectively, and I think operational advice from an individual who understood the operational context, the tactical detail and indeed the strategic outputs that it was going to deliver, I think he would have come to a different conclusion.

17:54

Jonathan Davies MP (Mid Derbyshire, Labour)

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Jonathan Davies. Deputy Speaker. This government has got a very strong story to tell when it comes to recruitment and retention and defence, whether it's investing in our homes for our forces, people providing free travel over Christmas or delivering a 6% pay rise last year, or a 4.5% pay rise this year. And I know that that's working because one of my staff, Archie Butler, will be leaving shortly to go to Sandhurst. So clearly efforts and colleagues will want to congratulate him, I'm sure, across the House for that.

Could I ask him what steps, what further steps you can take to ensure that our armed forces can be an attractive career for, for, for young people and also people changing jobs. But also, I welcome the words that he said about the Northern Ireland element to this. And can I urge him, as I know he is doing, to leave no stone unturned to ensure that inequitable or vexatious prosecutions are brought against our force?

17:55

Al Carns MP, Parliamentary Under-Secretary (Ministry of Defence) (Minister for Veterans) (Birmingham Selly Oak, Labour)

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First of all, there are no vexatious prosecutions. What I would say also is that if you want to see the world work with some of the best people in the world, have an adventure and get trained in leadership, then by all means join any one of our officer academies or recruit centres. It is the best career you could possibly ask for. I do not regret regret any day. Maybe one of 24 years within His Majesty's Her Majesty's Armed Forces.

17:55

Rt Hon Sir Andrew Mitchell MP (Sutton Coldfield, Conservative)

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Sir Andrew Mitchell. >> Deputy Speaker. >> Isn't it the case that there have already been numerous investigations and inquiries? And investigations and inquiries? And while old wounds are being reopened, little new evidence is actually emerging at. The Minister is a most distinguished soldier and my parliamentary neighbour. Surely he must be concerned that the circumstantial evidence of the impact on the health of veterans and their well-being is clearly impacting morale, retention and recruitment elsewhere. Yeah, yeah.

17:56

Al Carns MP, Parliamentary Under-Secretary (Ministry of Defence) (Minister for Veterans) (Birmingham Selly Oak, Labour)

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I'd like to thank the hon. Member for his question. Out of the 300,000 veterans that served in Northern Ireland, myself included, this will affect a small amount, but we must not allow that to be an excuse not to put in place the most well thought through and legislatively sound protections. One of those protections is a protection and a legal duty to consider veterans welfare. So individuals that are suffering from physical or mental issues because of their service in Northern Ireland don't get dragged back through the same system.

And that was also linked to giving evidence from home to ensure no one needs to return to an area where they may have had distressing or psychologically impactful moments.

17:56

Catherine Atkinson MP (Derby North, Labour)

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Catherine Atkinson thank you, >> Catherine Atkinson thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. This Christmas, the government funded travel for up to 35,000 service travel for up to 35,000 service personnel over 2000 from the East Midlands to be with their families over the festive period. My husband served in Afghanistan and I know how much it means to have these kind of moments with loved ones. Does the Minister agree that this kind of support demonstrates that our Labour government is on the side of our armed forces?

17:57

Al Carns MP, Parliamentary Under-Secretary (Ministry of Defence) (Minister for Veterans) (Birmingham Selly Oak, Labour)

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I'd like to thank the hon. >> I'd like to thank the hon. Member friend for her point, and I'd like to also thank her husband for his service. We don't say that for his service. We don't say that enough in this country. I think we should say it more. The reality is the previous government has focussed on ships, bombs, bullets, guns, rifles and it really didn't focus on the key asset of our armed forces, which are our people. It didn't focus on it enough.

We're doing it now and we're seeing a specific statistical change in recruitment and retention because of it. That includes a comprehensive messaging campaign around the policies that are put in place to increase recruitment and increase retention, a 30% increase and an 8% reduction in outflow. That's a fantastic change. We've got much more to do, but this government is heading in the right direction and we're going to do much more over the years to come.

17:58

Stuart Anderson MP (South Shropshire, Conservative)

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Stuart Anderson thank you. >> Stuart Anderson thank you. >> Madam Speaker. >> On a. >> Serious note of this. >> Working towards retention and

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Working towards retention and recruitment, I'm. Looking at I. Have not found one person in my entire military network of those I entire military network of those I served with during the Troubles and after that actually supports this. I do welcome the rise in recruitment of one of them is my own son, which is great to see, but it is. Can the Minister confirm if any of the senior chain of commands currently serving have raised this as a potential issue to operational

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capability or future retention and recruitment? Yes, Minister. I'd like to thank the honourable

17:58

Al Carns MP, Parliamentary Under-Secretary (Ministry of Defence) (Minister for Veterans) (Birmingham Selly Oak, Labour)

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>> I'd like to thank the honourable and gallant member for for his comments and also his service. There had been nobody in the senior command have raised this to me,

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connected to recruitment and retention. Emily Darlington.

17:59

Emily Darlington MP (Milton Keynes Central, Labour)

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>> Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker, I well, first of all, can I thank you? Sorry. Can I thank my hon. Friend for his service and we should thank people for their service more often. I had the pleasure of being part of the Armed Forces Parliamentary scheme, where we got to go to a training academy and see the cadets. It was a fantastic experience, but in talking to the people on the on the state, they said there were two things that were limiting the number of young people that could be a part of the programme.

Firstly, the number of people they had to be able to be the trainers and secondly was the facilities. What is the Minister doing to address those two concerns? As so many people respond to the Spotify adverts and sign up to be part of our armed forces.

17:59

Al Carns MP, Parliamentary Under-Secretary (Ministry of Defence) (Minister for Veterans) (Birmingham Selly Oak, Labour)

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So I'd like to thank the hon. Member for comment. The we actually have a huge amount of people wanting to join the armed forces. The problem is the the processes we've inherited with the recruitment scheme are indeed out of date. And we need renewed. They're being put in place now. We've reduced over 100 outdated medical medical requirements. We're refining it. We've created a digital ability to get hold of GP records, which is reducing the time of flight from an individual, putting their application in to the point of where they join.

And as a result, we're seeing an increase. We're focusing on people or raising forward.

18:00

Rt Hon Sammy Wilson MP (East Antrim, Democratic Unionist Party)

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Sammy Wilson oh my Lord speaker. the former the Veterans Commissioner, has said that this legislation will have those who served in the armed forces treated worse than terrorists. And former commanders have said it will affect recruitment, retention and leave soldiers in fear of legal action. Does the Minister not recognise that by giving in to the IRA's demand for the ability to rewrite the history of the Troubles, he is leaving the situation where soldiers are going to be dragged through the courts in their old age? And should his message to the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland not be your job is to stand up for those who served in Northern Ireland and not to kowtow to the IRA, Sinn FÃ©in and the Irish government.

18:01

Al Carns MP, Parliamentary Under-Secretary (Ministry of Defence) (Minister for Veterans) (Birmingham Selly Oak, Labour)

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Yeah. IRA's demands in any way, shape or form. This is about truth, justice and reconciliation. It's about taking those three different groups of people veterans, families of those that have lost loved ones. They could be civilian, they could be members of the PSNI, the RUC and also families that have lost loved ones because of military action and ensuring we navigate the process to get to truth, justice and reconciliation. You know, the hon. Member knows better than I the difficulties of Northern Ireland politics, my job as the Veterans Minister, now the Armed Forces Minister, is to ensure that veterans are protected 100% as we

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move through that process. And that is what I am determined to set out to do. Colleagues are going to struggle

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Colleagues are going to struggle to get in unless they keep their questions short, and the Minister to make sure that his answers are

18:02

Rt Hon Dr Andrew Murrison MP (South West Wiltshire, Conservative)

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Murrison. >> Madam Deputy Speaker and a Happy government. >> Has recognised the legal

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Has recognised the legal jeopardy that my hon. Friend the Member for South Suffolk has described, and they've legislated described, and they've legislated to protect their servicemen and women and veterans accordingly, can contain that within their recently published manual on Military Operational law. All 353 pages of it, which I recommend to the Minister. Why is it that the French are able to do that for their people? But this government is doing completely the reverse of that.

18:02

Al Carns MP, Parliamentary Under-Secretary (Ministry of Defence) (Minister for Veterans) (Birmingham Selly Oak, Labour)

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And what. forces, whether it be the Army, Navy and Air force, the highest legal standard. We always will. It's what separates us from terrorists or dictatorships. I'd be very interested to read the French document. So if we can have a discussion offline and see if there's any applicability to how we run things.

18:03

Mr Paul Kohler MP (Wimbledon, Liberal Democrat)

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Paul Kohler. >> Thank you, Madam Speaker. >> I'm supportive of the government's desire to move beyond the Tories failed Legacy Act the Tories failed Legacy Act provided the legitimate concerns of our veterans are met. However, I'm not convinced any office is even listening to, let alone acting upon those concerns. So can the Minister tell the House what discussions he's had with the Northern Ireland Office to address veterans concerns, and what he would say to veterans currently dissatisfied with the safeguards in the bill?

18:03

Al Carns MP, Parliamentary Under-Secretary (Ministry of Defence) (Minister for Veterans) (Birmingham Selly Oak, Labour)

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Yeah. >> So for almost a year and a half now, I've been in constant discussion with various veterans groups, whether that be a coordinated by the RBL, whether it coordinated by the RBL, whether it be individuals, whether it be individuals from our intelligence community, our special forces community, the Parachute Regiment, all the way through to line infantry members in the Navy and indeed the Air Force. I have been listening. We've designed these protections around what they have said. We're reinforcing that into legislation.

And my office is in daily contact with the Northern Ireland Office to ensure that we assure these protections up collaboratively and come out with the best possible way to get to truth, reconciliation and justice across all three different groups within Northern Ireland.

18:04

John Cooper MP (Dumfries and Galloway, Conservative)

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John Cooper. >> America's Delta Force has been involved in an incredible feat of arms in Caracas over the weekend. And of course, it is based on 22 sass, their formation having come after Charles Beckwith served with the Rs. So when the Rs speak, they are usually listened to. The Minister told us today that he has spoken to individuals from the Sass who signed the letter, saying that this bill is not fit for purpose. Have they changed their position?

18:04

Al Carns MP, Parliamentary Under-Secretary (Ministry of Defence) (Minister for Veterans) (Birmingham Selly Oak, Labour)

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Minister? >> So I've spoken to several of the generals that have raised these concerns. I've spoken to the associations connected to a variety of organisations across the group, and I've spoken to active members of those organisations to ensure that statistics are communicated effectively and people are representing what is and what is not happen. It's not lost on me that Delta Force was shaped off the SAS. It's not lost on me. Or forces at the tip of the spear are essential to all of the security that we enjoy.

We have got to protect them. We've got to ensure we give them the correct capability and protections as we move forward. And that's what I'm going to do.

18:05

Jim Allister KC MP (North Antrim, Traditional Unionist Voice)

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Jim Allister O2. >> Jim Allister O2. >> Special Forces operations inescapably involve split second inescapably involve split second decisions. They walk a very fine line. If those operatives perceive that the government does not have their back, then is the Minister seriously saying that will not have an adverse effect on either morale or recruitment?

18:05

Al Carns MP, Parliamentary Under-Secretary (Ministry of Defence) (Minister for Veterans) (Birmingham Selly Oak, Labour)

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It's really clear the government >> It's really clear the government has the back of our armed forces. I've just spelled out a whole list of recruitment retention initiatives, and indeed, you have initiatives, and indeed, you have individuals with the most military experience sat within the department in the political space who understands that line, that they walk and has walked it several times across various different operational theatres and understands it wholeheartedly.

18:06

Ben Obese-Jecty MP (Huntingdon, Conservative)

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Ben Obese-Jecty Mr Speaker. Given the concerns that have been Given the concerns that have been expressed about the this bill and the protections for our veterans, what assessment has the Minister made of the forthcoming Haddon-cave inquiry and the potential impact that that will have on retention of personnel, given the cohort of people affected, are likely either still serving or indeed the same era as the veterans in this chamber. Minister.

18:06

Al Carns MP, Parliamentary Under-Secretary (Ministry of Defence) (Minister for Veterans) (Birmingham Selly Oak, Labour)

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The Haddon-cave inquiry is an independent inquiry that was independent inquiry that was established by the last government. We must allow that to continue, but we're focussed on here today is ensuring, as the Northern Ireland ensuring, as the Northern Ireland Legacy Act progresses, the correct protections are in place, written into law, that ensure that no veteran who served so valiantly in Northern Ireland has any concerns about the Legacy Act as it moves forward, or indeed their involvement in that operational context.

18:07

Chris Coghlan MP (Dorking and Horley, Liberal Democrat)

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Firstly, I thank the Minister for his engagement with the various associations. I know that that is appreciated and I also welcome the improvement in recruitment. However, how are veterans meant to feel that there is anything other than persecution? When incidents such as Loch Goul, an exemplary SAS counter-terrorism operation, are granted a public inquiry, and instances such as the IRA bombing of Enniskillen, which in 1987, which left 12 people dead and at least 60 people injured, are not Minister.

18:07

Al Carns MP, Parliamentary Under-Secretary (Ministry of Defence) (Minister for Veterans) (Birmingham Selly Oak, Labour)

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The reality is that the last government's Legacy Act provided promises that could not be kept, the promises that could not be kept. So now explaining the reasons why to our veterans community is exceptionally difficult. I'm not going to lie on that. But on the same hand, we have been really clear that inquests that were stopped but were started by the last government, for example, local 2014 must continue and come to the rightful conclusion. But we must ensure that throughout that process, all of our veterans are protected as we progress.

18:08

Dr Neil Shastri-Hurst MP (Solihull West and Shirley, Conservative)

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To Neil Shastri-Hurst. >> To Neil Shastri-Hurst. >> Thank you very much. Madam Deputy Speaker. The Minister has more experience than most in terms of the global threats that are of the global threats that are facing this country. In those circumstances, we need to be recruiting and retaining the brightest and the best to our armed forces. Now he set out with certain detail about retention levels at the moment, but that is, of course, before this bill passes through Parliament and in the government's hope, is enacted as law.

Does he not recognise the fact that the inequality of arms under the legal system to our veterans is likely to have a significant impact upon retention in the future?

18:08

Al Carns MP, Parliamentary Under-Secretary (Ministry of Defence) (Minister for Veterans) (Birmingham Selly Oak, Labour)

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This government actually has an exceptionally record on supporting exceptionally record on supporting our veterans. In the last roll, we put more money into veterans than any other government. In the last ten years, £50 million into valour. We've enhanced the Opera Store programme up. Courage on Mental Health has now got £20 million is rolled out. Our career transition partnership is second to none. We have got housing now in fortitude. We've had 4100 referrals, over 1000 veterans supported. We are doing a fantastic job for veterans.

We must ensure they are protected as we go forward with that.

18:09

Sarah Pochin MP (Runcorn and Helsby, Reform UK)

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Sarah Pochin Madam Deputy. >> Sarah Pochin Madam Deputy. >> Speaker, with the risk of future prosecutions for simply following orders, would the Minister himself join the British Army today if he join the British Army today if he was a young man again making a career choice?

18:09

Al Carns MP, Parliamentary Under-Secretary (Ministry of Defence) (Minister for Veterans) (Birmingham Selly Oak, Labour)

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No. I joined the Royal Marines. Dewhirst.

18:09

Charlie Dewhirst MP (Bridlington and The Wolds, Conservative)

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Thank you, Madam. no provisions to prevent former members of the IRA or other paramilitary groups from sitting on their proposed Legacy Commission. Northern Ireland veterans and victims are rightly outraged. So will the Minister use his opportunity today to assure the House that the government will bring forward amendments to ensure that terrorists will not sit on that commission alongside the victim, the families, victims? Yeah, yeah.

18:09

Al Carns MP, Parliamentary Under-Secretary (Ministry of Defence) (Minister for Veterans) (Birmingham Selly Oak, Labour)

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I've worked very closely with Northern Ireland officers on this issue. Allow them to come out with the answer. From our perspective, the Legacy Commission as a whole the Legacy Commission as a whole has the most powers to review the evidence that has gone through. It will get to truth, reconciliation, justice better than any other organisation. And that is why we are promoting pushing as much as we can through it to ensure those three different groups of people in Northern Ireland get to that truth and reconciliation in the first place.

18:10

Richard Foord MP (Honiton and Sidmouth, Liberal Democrat)

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Madam Deputy Speaker, I carried >> Madam Deputy Speaker, I carried out court martial duty while serving, and it gave me greater confidence in justice for accused serving personnel. And we learned last week that as Prime Minister, Tony Blair supported having British soldiers tried by court martial rather than by a civil court he annotated. When it was suggested that it go to civil court, it must not. Can the Minister reassure civilians, thinking about joining the armed forces, that justice before a jury of a person's peers is worthy of their confidence?

18:10

Al Carns MP, Parliamentary Under-Secretary (Ministry of Defence) (Minister for Veterans) (Birmingham Selly Oak, Labour)

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So in my last role, I've had a lot of dealings with the service lot of dealings with the service justice system. I've gone to visit the Serious Crime Command. I've had a look at the victim support units they've put in place. And I can they've put in place. And I can actually say since 2021, there's been a huge amount of revamp and rebuild of the service justice system. It's fully fit for purpose and it has my utter confidence.

18:11

Rt Hon Esther McVey MP (Tatton, Conservative)

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Esther McVey Mr Speaker seven >> Esther McVey Mr Speaker seven former SAS officers say that troops feel abandoned by this government's bill. Does the Minister believe, bill. Does the Minister believe, given those comments, that the government's legacy Bill will incentivise the next generation to apply to serve in the armed forces, or rather, prevent the next generation taking this career path, knowing they too could be abandoned by a future government, just like those troops feel abandoned now by this government.

18:11

Al Carns MP, Parliamentary Under-Secretary (Ministry of Defence) (Minister for Veterans) (Birmingham Selly Oak, Labour)

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There has been no impact on our special forces recruitment. The special forces recruitment. The SaaS at the tip of the spear, one of the best regiments in the world. They will continue to be so, and I have no doubt that they will continue to attract the very best of our armed forces to join and serve in their ranks.

18:12

Blake Stephenson MP (Mid Bedfordshire, Conservative)

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Blake Stephenson. friend, the Member for Spelthorne, the Minister said he respects the views of those officers that have shared their concerns. So why does he think they're wrong?

18:12

Al Carns MP, Parliamentary Under-Secretary (Ministry of Defence) (Minister for Veterans) (Birmingham Selly Oak, Labour)

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Prime Minister sorry 100 respect the views of anyone who served in the views of anyone who served in our armed forces, and I'm willing to sit down and talk through in detail any of the statistics we have within the Ministry of Defence that would show that statistics don't necessarily justify some of the comments were made, and I'm happy to discuss that with anyone at any point.

18:12

Robin Swann MP (South Antrim, Ulster Unionist Party)

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Robin Swann Madam Deputy Speaker, can I welcome the steps taken by can I welcome the steps taken by the defence frontbench in their support for our Armed Forces precaution that the Northern Ireland Office Troubles Bill, has the potential to undo all that, because the protections for veterans in this bill are not specific for veterans, no matter how they're packaged, and actually how weak it sounds to tell the Northern Ireland veteran, who lives in Northern Ireland, who served in Northern Ireland, that they won't have to go to Northern Ireland to give evidence.

So the Minister is actually often cited how no Northern Ireland party supported the previous government's legislation. Can he tell me what Northern Ireland Party currently supports the current bill as it is drafted? And if he can't really pause and reflect?

18:13

Al Carns MP, Parliamentary Under-Secretary (Ministry of Defence) (Minister for Veterans) (Birmingham Selly Oak, Labour)

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Yeah. >> The member knows better than I the difficulties of Northern Ireland politics. My role within this is to ensure that veterans are this is to ensure that veterans are protected. I speak with the Northern Ireland Veterans Commissioner on a weekly basis for hours on end, to make sure that we are defining, refining and implementing the protections for veterans, whether they serve in Northern Ireland or whether from here in the mainland deployed to Northern Ireland. From my Lam.

18:13

Katie Lam MP (Weald of Kent, Conservative)

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Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. The relentless and malicious The relentless and malicious lawfare to which our brave Northern Ireland veterans have been subjected has exposed the fact that in Britain, human rights laws can be used to attack those who have risked their lives for this country, not protect them. The conditions in which soldiers and veterans are forced to live, even if they are accused with no evidence and no credibility, are inhumane. What will the Minister do about this situation? And if it can't be resolved under the European Court of Human Rights and the Human Rights Act, will he call for them respectively, to be left and repealed?

18:14

Al Carns MP, Parliamentary Under-Secretary (Ministry of Defence) (Minister for Veterans) (Birmingham Selly Oak, Labour)

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I've been really clear that anybody who served in Northern Ireland, or indeed any veteran, will get the full legal and welfare support of the Ministry of Defence. We saw that on the soldier F case. We'll see that on any case that goes through, they will provide the full weight of the Ministry of Defence to protect them in any way, shape or form from vexatious claims or the lawfare that the hon. Member has outlined.

18:14

Jim Shannon MP (Strangford, Democratic Unionist Party)

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Final question Jim Shannon Madam Deputy Speaker. Deputy Speaker. >> And can I thank the Honourable Minister for his answers? I say with great respect, Minister, is it any wonder.

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any wonder. That recruitment. Is down as a Sinn Fein First Minister telling my right hon. Minister telling my right hon. Member for Belfast and my party to butt out of recent recruitment issues paired with this government are to support for our veterans in terms of Northern Ireland, who in their right mind would sign up to be abandoned in the future for doing their job in order to give in to republicanism? And does the Minister acknowledge that the cost of the sale of our veterans may well be the defence capability of this great nation? And will the Minister, who is an honourable man and is much liked in this chamber and indeed outside, take this opportunity to stop the rewriting of history and stand by our troops, past and present.

Yeah.

18:15

Al Carns MP, Parliamentary Under-Secretary (Ministry of Defence) (Minister for Veterans) (Birmingham Selly Oak, Labour)

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I would like to thank the hon. Member for his, as always, well Member for his, as always, well thought through contributions. We've been really clear from our perspective. We must protect our veterans from the process being wielded as a punishment. And secondly, we must ensure that no terrorist who cause 90% of the casualties in Northern Ireland can rewrite history to suit their own narrative. We must not allow that to happen. And importantly, underlining all of this, we must protect those who have protected us.

If this nation is going to remain as great as it always has been.

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That is the end of the urgent question. I'll give the frontbenchers a few moments to frontbenchers a few moments to frontbenchers a few moments to shuffle over. We come to the first statement. Foreign Secretary, Venezuela, foreign Secretary.

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Venezuela, foreign Secretary. Yes. Madam Deputy. Speaker. I want.

18:16

Ministerial statement: Venezuela

To begin. By expressing my condolences to all of those

18:16

Rt Hon Yvette Cooper MP, Foreign Secretary, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Pontefract, Castleford and Knottingley, Labour)

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affected by the terrible tragedy in Crans Montana and my support for Crans Montana and my support for the Swiss authorities. The British Embassy has been supporting the family of Charlotte Nydam, who was educated in Hertfordshire and in northwest London. And I can confirm that yesterday Charlotte's family were given the devastating news that her remains have now been that her remains have now been identified. Charlotte was just 15. The whole House will be thinking of her and her friends and family now.

Madam speaker, let me turn to Venezuela. Over the weekend, the US conducted airstrikes on a series of Venezuelan targets and confirmed that it had captured Nicolas Maduro and his wife, Celia Flores. They have been indicted on narco terrorism, drug smuggling and weapons charges. I can confirm to the House that the UK was not involved in these operations. UK policy on Venezuela has long been to press for a peaceful transition from authoritarian rule to a democracy, which reflects the will of the Venezuelan people and maintains security in the region, and is in line with international law.

That remains our position and our determined view about what must happen in Venezuela now and over the weekend, I discussed this with Secretary of State Marco Rubio, and the UK government is in close contact with our international partners on this issue. The first duty of government is the safety and security of our citizens, and my department is working tirelessly to ensure the safety of British nationals. Over the weekend, I spoke with the UK chargÃ© d'Affaires in Caracas and all our embassy staff are safe and accounted for and are working to support the approximately 500 British nationals in Venezuela.

Our travel advice currently advises against all travel to Venezuela, and British nationals in Venezuela should closely follow our travel advice, which will be kept up to date. Madam Deputy Speaker, we should be under no illusion as to the nature of the Maduro regime. A once functioning democracy has become a hub for very dangerous, organised criminal gangs. Corrupt links involved Iran, with Hezbollah increasingly present in recent years, as well as malign support from Russia and a regime which has facilitated illicit finance, sanctions evasion and organised criminal activity, including narcotics trafficking and illegal gold trading that undermines the security of the whole region, including UK overseas territories, as well as the United States and other regional partners.

The country has been driven into economic ruin, with an 80% drop in their GDP in a decade. Over 8 million people have left, causing instability elsewhere in the region, and we have seen Maduro's regime systematically dismantle democratic institutions, silencing dissent and weaponizing state resources to maintain power through fear and corruption. The International Criminal Court has opened an investigation into possible crimes against humanity, following reports of hundreds of extrajudicial killings, including at the hands of Venezuela's security services and paramilitary groups under the regime's command.

And UN investigators have repeatedly reported a pattern of arbitrary detentions, tortures and killings. In July 2024 presidential election, millions of Venezuelan voters Venezuelans voted for the official results have never been published. The opposition leader, Maria Corina machado, was banned by Maduro from standing. International observers cited basic failures of election integrity and independent tallies covering 80% of polling stations showed a clear victory for Edmundo Gonzalez, and yet Maduro claimed victory. And most recently, in October, the UN independent fact finding mission reported on state security forces using firearms against protesters after the elections 18 months ago, where 25 people died, Gonzalez has been forced to leave the country and claim political asylum in Spain.

Machado was forced into hiding for her own safety and had to be spirited out of the country to receive her Nobel Peace Prize in Norway last month. These are the hallmarks of a regime that clings to power through fear, coercion and violence, not through democratic consent. And that is why, as the Prime Minister said on Saturday, we can shed no tears for the end of Maduro's rule. Let me turn to UK policy, because Madam Deputy Speaker. The UK has long been an advocate for a democratic Venezuela and a vocal critic of the Maduro regime.

Since 2019, successive UK governments have refused to recognise the regime through the G7, the UN with partners and directly. We have continued to call out the Maduro regime and its appalling human rights violations. We have also, in some areas, taken a different policy approach to some of our allies. Our other Five Eyes partners have closed their embassies, but we have maintained our diplomatic mission in Caracas at a much more senior level than many of our partners, and seeking dialogue, sustaining direct contact with the opposition, supporting Venezuelan civil society and advocating for British interests.

A year ago around Maduro's inauguration, the UK acted alongside partners and announced a wave of new sanctions. We targeted 15 individuals, including judges, senior ranking officials in Maduro's regime responsible for undermining democracy, the rule of law and human rights violations. And we have imposed sanctions on individuals, but not on sectors of the economy. And we have not supported or been involved in blockades or strikes against drug boats. We have continued to directly promote the interests of the British overseas territories, who need to see stability in the region.

And of course, throughout we have promoted and maintained support for international law. Commitment to international law, as the Prime Minister set out on Saturday, is immensely important to this government. Those principles, the decisions that we make and the actions we take as part of Britain's foreign policy. That commitment to international law is part of our values. It's also strongly in the UK's national interest, and our manifesto talked about a foreign policy that is progressive and that is also realistic, engaging with the world as we find it in the interests of UK security, prosperity and our values.

That means upholding international law and defending democracy, and it means confronting the complex, evolving and hybrid threats that we and our allies face in the world today. And those principles and values also guide the conversations that we have with our allies across a range of issues where we agree and disagree. And in my discussions with Secretary Rubio, I raised the importance of complying with international law. And we will continue to urge all partners to do so at every stage. It is, of course, for the US to set out the legal basis for their actions, and the UN Security Council is discussing Venezuela this afternoon.

These issues will continue to be matters for international discussion. I discuss with Secretary Rubio what should happen next and our continued commitment to a transition to a peaceful and stable democracy. Our collective immediate focus must be on avoiding any deterioration in Venezuela into further instability, criminality, repression or violence that would be deeply damaging for the people of Venezuela, our own overseas territories, our allies and in the US and other regional partners. The UK has long been clear that the leadership of Venezuela must reflect the will of the Venezuelan people.

So the international community must come together to help achieve a peaceful transition to a democratic government that respects the rights and will of its people. That must mean action on the economic crisis, the release of political prisoners, the return of opposition politicians, an end to political repression, respect for human rights and plans for the holding of free and fair elections. And I urge the acting president, Delcy Rodriguez, to take these steps forward, because the people of Venezuela have a right to decide their own future.

The US Secretary of State and I discussed the particular role that the UK can play to support a peaceful, democratic transition and stability because drawing on our embassy in Caracas and on the work that we have done over many years to build up relationships and dialogue with Venezuelan opposition parties and with the current authorities and regime, and of course, our relationship with the US. To that end, I have also spoken today with Venezuelan opposition leader Marina Corin, Corina machado, and her unwavering fight for democracy, human rights and the rule of law in Venezuela and against oppression is inspirational and we will keep in touch over the days and weeks ahead.

Finally, Madam Deputy Speaker, let me turn briefly to another matter. The House will have seen recent comments from the United States and from Denmark regarding Greenland. Let me be very clear on the UK position. Greenland is part of the Kingdom of Denmark. Our close European partners, our long standing NATO allies and all our countries work closely together on security issues and will always do so. The future of Greenland is a matter for the Greenlanders and Danes and no one else.

I commend this statement to the House.

18:26

Rt Hon Kemi Badenoch MP (North West Essex, Conservative)

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I call the Leader of the Opposition Kemi Badenoch. Opposition Kemi Badenoch. >> Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker, and I would like to start by associating myself with the associating myself with the condolences expressed by the Foreign Secretary about the awful tragedy in Crans Montana. And I also would like to thank her for her statement on Venezuela, although I am disappointed that it is not the Prime Minister delivering this statement because many of us in this House and beyond want to know how he is going to respond to this situation.

Madam Deputy Speaker, Nicolas Maduro was a tyrant who criminally abused the Venezuelan people and destabilised the region. It is no surprise that there is jubilation on the streets because Venezuelans remember what their country was like before it was ravaged by years of socialist dictatorship. For years, the Conservative government refused to recognise the legitimacy of Maduro's horrific regime of brutality and repression, and we were pleased to see the Labour government follow suit. However, Madam Deputy Speaker, we are in a fundamentally different world.

The truth is that while the likes of China have been strategic and aggressive in strengthening their influence across the world, including South America, the West has been slow. Foreign policy should serve our national interest. It should be about keeping Britain safe. We should be clear eyed. The United States is our closest security partner. We must work with them seriously, not snipe from the sidelines. We on this side of the House understand why the US has taken this action.

As the Foreign Secretary said, UK policy has long been to press for a peaceful transition from authoritarian rule to a democracy. That never happened. Instead, Venezuelans have been living under Maduros brutal regime for many years. The US has made it clear it is acting in its national interest against drug smuggling and other criminal activity, including potential terrorism. So we understand that. However, we do have concerns about what precedent this sets, especially when there are comments made about the future of Greenland.

It is important that the United Kingdom supports its NATO ally, Denmark, which has made it categorically clear that Greenland is not for sale. So I welcome the Foreign Secretary's remarks in that regard. What is critical now is the stability of the region and the wider world. It is important that we listen to those who have been risking their lives for freedom and democracy. In Venezuela, opposition leader Maria Corina machado, when asked about US action, said that Venezuela had already been invaded by Iran, by Russia, by drug cartels and Hamas and Hezbollah, it is clear that Venezuela had become a gangster state.

I am pleased to hear that the Foreign Secretary has spoken to Maria machado. But can she also update the House on whether the Prime Minister has spoken to President Trump? And I ask this because the government talks up its relationship with the US, but we keep finding that we are not in the room when big decisions are made. Madam Deputy Speaker, we should be under no illusions a democratic transition in Venezuela will be far from straightforward. So when the Foreign Secretary speaks of democratic transition, what does that actually mean to the government in practice? And can she also set out what happens to the UK's Venezuela sanctions regime now in a world changing as it is, we must be serious and responsible about our security and standing.

We know what the president of the United States strategy is. His government set out its national security strategy last year. The US is acting in its national interest. We need to do the same. We should be working to protect the rules based order, and we should be standing up to hostile actors that want to undermine us. But what is our government doing instead? Giving away the Chagos Islands and paying £35 billion for the privilege with no strong legal basis to justify this? Last year, the Defence Committee warned that the UK was not adequately prepared to defend herself from attack.

The government is still stalling on defence spending. Conservatives want to see spending increase to 3% of GDP. We want to see spending increase to 3% of GDP by the end of this Parliament, given the changing world. Why has the government not matched that commitment? It has never been more important for the UK to have a coherent foreign policy strategy. Right now, Labour doesn't have one. If they do, we'd like to hear the Foreign Secretary tell us what it is, because I didn't hear anything remotely sounding like that in her statement.

Let us be honest, Madam Deputy Speaker. Old strategies will not work. We are living in in an increasingly dangerous world, the axis of authoritarian states seeking to undermine us respects just one thing strength. Britain must be ready and willing to defend our own interests, to protect ourselves from those who would undermine us, to protect the unity of the Western alliance, and to support democracy and freedom around the world.

18:31

Rt Hon Yvette Cooper MP, Foreign Secretary, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Pontefract, Castleford and Knottingley, Labour)

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The Foreign Secretary. >> The Foreign Secretary. >> I must just say to the Leader of the Opposition, obviously welcome the Opposition, obviously welcome her her support on Switzerland, on Greenland, Denmark and so on. But I have to say that really felt like a very poorly judged tone of response that was really all over the place. Many times when we were in opposition, we had issues that we agreed with the government on and in the national interest. We set out our agreement and we recognise that some of these were cross-party issues.

I actually suspect that had the shadow Foreign Secretary have made that response to our statement, she probably would have done that. And in fact, on the different issues that she talked about on Venezuela, she seemed to agree with us that the Maduro regime has been deeply damaging, corrupt and deeply destructive, and therefore it is that no one should shed any tears for it going. She also, I think, implicit when she talked about the rules based order, recognise the importance of precedents of the importance of international law and also the complexity of the world in which we face.

And she also said that she thought we should show support for Denmark and for Greenland. So in fact, I could not see a single detailed thing that she disagreed with in that response, except for the fact that she seemed to want to express opposition for

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opposition's sake. And I would let. Me just say to her, just in terms of the overall approach, and I think everyone recognises the leadership that this Prime Minister leadership that this Prime Minister has shown on the international stage. Chairing the coalition of stage. Chairing the coalition of the willing, leading the European and international support for Ukraine against Russia, agreeing free trade deals with India, Europe, the US. After her government ripped up the trade cooperation and trashed the UK's reputation across the world, the biggest increase in defence investment since the Cold War, properly supporting UK security and with the US, the most successful state visit leading to major tech investment in the UK, with the UK Prime Minister, who talks frequently to the US and deep partnerships on security, intelligence and the military and our close working now on Gaza, on the peace process, on the crisis in Sudan and of course, fundamentally on Ukraine.

So many times in the past, we took a cross-party approach. I would just expect her to do the same. On the matters that are really about the future of this country. This government will continue to stand up for Britain's interests, for our prosperity and for our values. Chair of the Foreign Affairs Committee.

18:34

Rt Hon Emily Thornberry MP (Islington South and Finsbury, Labour)

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Emily Thornberry. >> Deputy Speaker. If a large and powerful country abducts the leader of another, however abhorrent that leader is, and then tries to intimidate the smaller country in order, it says itself to gain access to its resources, doesn't the Foreign Secretary agree that this should be called out not just by Britain, but by our Western allies? We should be calling it out for what it is a breach of international law. It is. It is not for the country that is breaking the law to say whether or not it has broken the law.

It is for the West, surely to stand up and say, call it as it is. Doesn't she therefore share my concern that there might be a profound risk of international norms changing? If we don't do that, it may become okay, and that is a risk that that that we then risk living in a world where might is right. And surely that isn't in Britain's interests.

18:35

Rt Hon Yvette Cooper MP, Foreign Secretary, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Pontefract, Castleford and Knottingley, Labour)

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Foreign Secretary can I just thank my hon. >> My right hon. >> Friend for her question, because. >> And also recognise that she has

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And also recognise that she has been. Consistent in her opposition to Maduro, the Maduro regime, even. to Maduro, the Maduro regime, even. When she was under pressure not to be through many years. And I know that she and I would probably agree that a man who is currently being investigated for crimes against humanity, and who has such a history of political repression, as well as economic destruction and corruption, should not be leading a country. And she rightly refers to the issues around international law.

And I set out our commitment to international law. And she will know that my predecessor as foreign secretary talked about progressive realism, where we set out the progressive principles. We follow how important international law is because of the framework that it sets that is in our interests, not just reflecting our values, but also that we engage with the world with the way it is. And I can assure her that as part of that, I have raised this issue of international law with Secretary of State Rubio and made clear that we will continue to urge all countries to follow it.

18:36

Rt Hon Ed Davey MP (Kingston and Surbiton, Liberal Democrat)

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Leader of the Liberal Democrats. >> Edward David. >> Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. Can I associate. >> Myself and my. >> Party with the comments. >> From.

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From. The Foreign Secretary. About the tragedy. In Crans Montana? Mr Speaker when President Reagan invaded Grenada, Margaret Thatcher said this we in the Western democracies use our force to defend our way of life. We do not use it to walk into other people's countries. We try to extend our beliefs not by force but by persuasion. So I'm disappointed. We've heard nothing as clear and courageous from either Prime Minister or the Foreign Secretary, or today's Conservative Party.

Maduro is a brutal, illegitimate dictator, but that does not give President Trump a free pass for illegal action. This wasn't about liberating the Venezuelan people. Trump's refusal to back Nobel Prize winner Maria machado, Maduro's brave liberal opponent, shows Trump has no interest in Venezuelan democracy. This is about Trump believing he can grab anything he wants and get away with it this time. Oil. We know what happens when an American president launches an illegal war under the pretext of an imminent threat.

It's why we oppose the Iraq War and why we condemn Trump today. National sovereignty matters. International law matters. Without them, the world is far more dangerous and we are all less safe. R anyone who thinks Trump's actions will make China or Russia think twice is either hopelessly desperate or desperately naive. Putin and XI will be using this precedent to strengthen their hands in Ukraine and Taiwan. And Madam Deputy Speaker, anyone who thinks Trump will stop with Venezuela hasn't read his new national security strategy.

He's already threatening Colombia, Cuba and Greenland. Even democracies across Europe. Does the Foreign Secretary not realise how ridiculous it looks to refuse to call this what it is, a clear breach of international law? Will she at least publish all the advice the government has received on the legality of Trump's actions?

18:39

Rt Hon Yvette Cooper MP, Foreign Secretary, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Pontefract, Castleford and Knottingley, Labour)

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Secretary. >> We say to the hon. Gentleman that we do, I hope, agree on the that we do, I hope, agree on the brutality of the Maduro dictatorship. And also, I would hope that Venezuela has it is better for Venezuela not to be led by somebody like Maduro. And therefore the most important thing now for Venezuela is for it to have a transition to democracy. And I have spoken directly to the US Secretary of State about that, and also about the potential role that the UK can play in that, because, unusually, we have a very senior and experienced chargÃ© d'affaires in Venezuela who has long standing relationships with the Venezuelan opposition, with the regime.

And also, of course, we have the close relationship with the US that puts us in a particular position and gives us a particular responsibility in order to keep progress being made towards that democratic transition, because stability will not be maintained unless there is a transition that is in the will of the people. We say to him, just in terms of international law, again, we have made very clear that our commitment to international law and the way that it must guide our decisions and UK foreign policy, and we will continue to raise it with our partners, both in public and in private.

It is important that we do so. And as for the issue on government legal advice, he will know that the ministerial code is very clear about government, not either publishing or commenting on different legal advice.

18:41

Rt Hon Diane Abbott MP (Hackney North and Stoke Newington, Independent)

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Diane Abbott nobody. >> In this. >> Chamber wants to defend the

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Chamber wants to defend the regime of Maduro, but what some of us want to do is to stand up for the importance of a rules based international order. And I might add, because my parents were born overseas, I take the question of national sovereignty extremely seriously. And you cannot have a situation where a country, because it is bigger and stronger, walks in to a smaller country, snatches it, snatches its political leadership, whatever you think of that political leadership, but snatches its political leadership, helicopters it out and puts on a show trial in an outside country.

That cannot be something which this government is prepared to support. And let me add, I know that you know, the opposition are blithe about what what Trump is doing. Lie, lie.

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Lie. Lie lie.

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Lie. Lie lie. I know the opposition are blithe about what Trump is doing, but let about what Trump is doing, but let me say this there will be countries me say this there will be countries that will look at Trump's attitude and carelessness to issues of and carelessness to issues of sovereignty, and they will think, what happens if they have that threat? Who will be willing to stand up for them? Who are we willing to stand up for their national sovereignty? As far as I have heard thus far, it will not

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necessarily be our Ministers and there will be individuals. Order, order!

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Order, order! The honourable. Right hon. Lady must get. To a question shortly, please.

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shortly, please. Question is, what would the Foreign Secretary say to British voters? Ordinary British voters, not particularly left wing British not particularly left wing British voters that do not understand why a British Prime Minister is not willing to stand up for an international rules based order and is not willing to defend national sovereignty.

18:43

Rt Hon Yvette Cooper MP, Foreign Secretary, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Pontefract, Castleford and Knottingley, Labour)

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Well. >> What I would say to my right hon. Friend, is that the support for a rules based international order and rules based international order and for international law is a central part of our foreign policy and the decisions that the UK government makes and the actions that we take. There is an approach which says that, look, this is a new world of great power, politics and spheres of influence and which rejects the role for the international law. That is not our view, not only because we believe it is right, it is part of our values and part of our progressive values, but also because it is in UK interests as well to do so.

It's why we believe not just in the UN charter, but also more broadly in international law and a rules based framework as well. But it's also why we believe in rules based alliances and the maintenance of those alliances. And contrary to the approach of the the sort of great power strategic hemispheres. We believe in the transatlantic alliance and the NATO alliance. That is why we're taking such a strong position on Greenland and Denmark. But it is also why we work with close, close allies and talk to them on many issues privately as well as publicly.

18:45

Rt Hon Sir Edward Leigh MP (Gainsborough, Conservative)

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Father of the House Sir Edward Leigh. >> They. >> At the end. >> Of the Foreign. Secretary's statement, I'm no wiser as to statement, I'm no wiser as to whether the government approves this action and believes or does not believe that, whether it breaks international law. Now, the Prime Minister is such a devotee of international law, he's not

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prepared to defend our own borders from the small boats and take the necessary action. Correct.

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Why is it that there's one law for the American president doing what is right for his country, in defending his country? But there's defending his country? But there's a different law from us. So a simple question is, does the government believe this breaks

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government believe this breaks international law? Does it approve this action? Foreign Secretary? Well, I think, as I.

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Well, I think, as I. Said in my statement, as the Prime Minister said on Saturday,

18:45

Rt Hon Yvette Cooper MP, Foreign Secretary, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Pontefract, Castleford and Knottingley, Labour)

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there can be no tears shed for the Maduro regime and the damage that Maduro regime and the damage that it has done over many years. It is for the US to set out the legal for the US to set out the legal position behind their actions. We were not involved in those actions. We continue to be guided by international law in our approach, and we continue to work now for the

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most important issue to get transition to peaceful democracy in Venezuela. Richard Burgon.

18:46

Richard Burgon MP (Leeds East, Labour)

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Thank you. It was the Prime Minister that decided to disregard the United Nations Charter when it came to Trump's bombing, killing and kidnapping of the head of state. I think it speaks volumes that the Prime Minister has chosen not to come to this House to explain his decision. The reality is this if it were Putin doing this, the Prime Minister would not be saying, oh, it's up to the Russians to decide whether or not this is legal.

But this is exactly what the Prime Minister has said in relation to Trump's disgusting attack on Venezuela. Isn't the reality that the Prime Minister is willing to ditch international law and sidestep the United Nations Charter in order to appease Donald Trump? And doesn't this cowardly, craven approach drag this country's reputation through the dirt?

18:47

Rt Hon Yvette Cooper MP, Foreign Secretary, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Pontefract, Castleford and Knottingley, Labour)

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Yeah. Secretary. >> Well. >> I just say to the hon. Member, I

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I just say to the hon. Member, I do find it hard to not remember his support and welcoming for the support and welcoming for the Maduro regime, a regime which is currently being investigated for crimes against humanity.

18:47

Rt Hon Sir Jeremy Hunt MP (Godalming and Ash, Conservative)

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Yes, sir. >> Jeremy Hunt. >> Most people's view of Maduro's capture will be good riddance. And capture will be good riddance. And I would have liked the government to be more categoric in supporting US action in removing an illegitimate and evil dictator. But if the new US approach extends to the annexation of Greenland, the sovereign territory of a NATO member, it could mean the end of the alliance with disastrous consequences. So how much planning is going on at the Foreign Office to actually make sure such a disaster doesn't happen? We understand that discussions between allies have to be in private, but what it looks like from the outside is that Europe is weak and divided.

So can she reassure the House? The right conversations are happening best.

18:48

Rt Hon Yvette Cooper MP, Foreign Secretary, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Pontefract, Castleford and Knottingley, Labour)

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Foreign Secretary. >> Foreign Secretary. >> Well, let me just reiterate our strong support for the Greenlanders and for Denmark. Greenland is part of the Kingdom of Denmark, and it is the future for Greenland is for them to decide, not for anybody else. Notwithstanding any of the things that we have heard the US say or others say as well. We are very clear about that. And I have raised this issue internationally and we will continue to do so. But we are very firm in our view on this point.

18:49

Phil Brickell MP (Bolton West, Labour)

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Phil Brickell thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. My constituents. Nicolas Maduro, who oversaw violent repression of his own people, a fraudulent presidential election and horrific human rights abuses for many years. But they are alarmed about the unilateral regime change sought by the Trump administration in order to access Venezuelan oil resources. Two wrongs don't make a right. So what measures is the Foreign Secretary taking to support opposition leaders, including 2025 Nobel Prize winner Maria Corina machado.

18:49

Rt Hon Yvette Cooper MP, Foreign Secretary, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Pontefract, Castleford and Knottingley, Labour)

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Foreign secretary? >> Well. >> Our country has particularly strong relationships with the Venezuelan opposition as a result of the work of our chargÃ© d'affaires and the work of our embassy in Venezuela that we have maintained when other countries have not, as I have said, that does put us in a particularly significant position in terms of being able to support a transition to democracy. That is what we have always argued for, to get that transition to democracy. It is exactly why I have spoken to Maria Corina today, and why we will keep in close touch in order to be able to recognise their call as a first step for the end to political repression in Venezuela.

That must happen.

18:50

Edward Morello MP (West Dorset, Liberal Democrat)

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Edward Morello.

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mourn the passing of the rules based international order. Yes.

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If we accept the premise that a big power country can do what it wants without any ramifications wants without any ramifications anywhere in the world, then we accept the behaviour of Putin over the last two decades and the behaviour of XI Jinping in the future, we cannot allow it to stand, and it is clear that our future security lies with closer cooperation with our European allies. So what is she doing to ensure that the UK stands in lockstep with those people that do share our values?

18:51

Rt Hon Yvette Cooper MP, Foreign Secretary, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Pontefract, Castleford and Knottingley, Labour)

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EAS Foreign Secretary. >> EAS Foreign Secretary. >> Well, we have strengthened our relationship with our European partners. Indeed. I've been in touch with the Danish foreign touch with the Danish foreign Minister today exactly on the issue around Greenland, and we will continue to support the rules based international order, but also the UN charter and international law. But all I would just say to him is I really would warn members against making equivalents here around what Putin has done in Ukraine, where thousands of children have been kidnapped, where they have invaded a country led by a democratically elected President Zelenskyy.

We should be careful about recognising what we say and the implications of it.

18:51

Dan Carden MP (Liverpool Walton, Labour)

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Dan Carden thank. welcome the Foreign Secretary's statement in what is an incredibly complex international situation. complex international situation. Maduro stole elections, murdered opponents and 9 million Venezuelans were forced to flee their country. Venezuelans will be both fearful and hopeful for the future, but this episode shows the US shift to the Western Hemisphere, leaving European security more exposed and US willingness to interfere in foreign states, with serious implications for our NATO ally, Denmark. So does she agree? What the UK can now usefully do is use any influence we have to pursue a transition to democracy for Venezuela and to learn from this event, accelerating our UK defence and national security commitments.

18:52

Rt Hon Yvette Cooper MP, Foreign Secretary, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Pontefract, Castleford and Knottingley, Labour)

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Foreign Secretary. >> My friend, is exactly right about both the fear and hope felt by many people in Venezuela. That by many people in Venezuela. That is the views that we have had reflected back to us as well over the weekend. Two and that is why we are certainly doing everything we can in the unusual position that we are in, given our experience and relationships, in order to promote and support that transition to a democracy. I do also agree with him about the importance of us increasing our defence investment.

It is why we have now the biggest increase in defence investment since the end of the Cold War.

18:53

Rt Hon Sir John Whittingdale MP (Maldon, Conservative)

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So John Whittingdale, thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. >> The Madeira and Chavez regime was characterised by widespread human rights abuse, criminality and economic destitution and many Venezuelans are rightly and understandably celebrating its end. But I have to say to the Foreign Secretary that after over half an hour, it is still not clear whether the UK government actually agrees with what has been done. She referred to the discussion taking place in the UN Security Council at the moment. Can she say what the position of the UK will be? At that meeting?

18:54

Rt Hon Yvette Cooper MP, Foreign Secretary, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Pontefract, Castleford and Knottingley, Labour)

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Foreign Secretary? beginning of a statement, which is that we supported and have long supported a peaceful transition to a democracy from an authoritarian regime. We shed no tears for the removal of the Jiro, but we also want to see the establishment of a democracy and a transition, a peaceful transition to a democracy which we do not yet have in Venezuela. That is what we will work towards, and we will always

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argue for the upholding of international law. Members will be aware that there

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Members will be aware that there are very many of you wishing to contribute to this statement. There's another statement to come and an important debate later. Please can I encourage you to make questions short tan sing. Jesy.

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questions short tan sing. Jesy. Thank you very much. Madam Deputy Speaker. Whether it's Venezuela, Greenland, Ukraine,

18:54

Mr Tanmanjeet Singh Dhesi MP (Slough, Labour)

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Venezuela, Greenland, Ukraine, Palestine or Taiwan, the UK government is right to champion international rule. But we must face facts. The global rules based order is crumbling before our eyes as increasingly nations disregard those rules and national interests. Trump's long standing alliances and in this new era of strongman politics, whether we like it or not, military strength is the ultimate guarantor of our security and sovereignty. So, Secretary of State, what steps are the government taking to accelerate investment in defence and send a clear signal so that we are respected by both friend and flow globally?

18:55

Rt Hon Yvette Cooper MP, Foreign Secretary, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Pontefract, Castleford and Knottingley, Labour)

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Foreign Secretary. >> Well. >> My friend is right to say, and I said in a speech just before Christmas that the global rules Christmas that the global rules based order is under pressure from different directions. However, we believe it remains important. It is particularly important and it is in our interests and the nature of our country and history. It is in our interest, but it is also a fundamental part of our values, and we believe that the international law and the rules based order are fundamentally a foundation for peace and security across the world.

We do have to engage with the world as we find it, not as we would like it to be. That does mean continuing to advocate for international law, both with people right across the world, including directly with our allies. But it also means increasing our investment in defence, because fundamentally protecting our national security has to be the most important priority for the government.

18:56

Rt Hon Tom Tugendhat MP (Tonbridge, Conservative)

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Tom Tugendhat. The real. >> Story coming out today and over the last few days is the revelation the last few days is the revelation that we should all have known that this country has opted out of protecting in the international rules based system. We have not significantly invested in defence, and even the commitment that the Foreign Secretary speaks of does not keep pace with defence inflation. So doesn't this really reveal a simple truth that, as the Prime Minister revealed on Sunday, he hasn't even spoken to the American president? The Americans did it without us because the Americans don't give a what this House thinks.

18:57

Rt Hon Yvette Cooper MP, Foreign Secretary, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Pontefract, Castleford and Knottingley, Labour)

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Foreign Secretary. >> Foreign Secretary. >> I guess I would just have to ask who was it who didn't significantly who was it who didn't significantly invest in defence over the last 14 years? It's this government which is substantially increasing investment in defence and also chairing the coalition of the willing and also showing leadership on the international stage as well. And what has struck me, becoming foreign secretary and having discussions with governments all across the world over the last few months is how much those governments are saying how welcome it is that Britain is back.

18:58

Nick Smith MP (Blaenau Gwent and Rhymney, Labour)

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Nick Smith. an illegitimate. President from Caracas in the New York Times today, Colette Capriles describes a struggle for survival, a primitive capitalism, a web of bosses, private loyalties, corrupt practices and institutional ruins that replaced public life in Venezuela. So can I ask the Foreign Secretary, what can the UK do to support the development of strong civic institutions there that can help build a new Venezuela.

18:58

Rt Hon Yvette Cooper MP, Foreign Secretary, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Pontefract, Castleford and Knottingley, Labour)

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Foreign Secretary? Because, look, there is a risk, a real risk of instability in Venezuela now and building civil society, giving people in Venezuela the hope rather than the fear now ensuring there is stability but also building up capacity, working with opposition parties and with other organisations is now going to be crucial. That is something we are strongly advocating for. It is something that I have discussed with the US Secretary of State and said that we will continue to make a priority based on the work that our excellent chargÃ© d'affaires has been doing over many years.

But now we need to do it extensively, including in discussion with opposition parties.

18:59

Pete Wishart MP (Perth and Kinross-shire, Scottish National Party)

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Pete Wishart it's. >> Pete Wishart it's. >> Hard to find an occasion when a British Prime Minister has looked British Prime Minister has looked so irrelevant and spineless on an era defining international issue, as this one does. On this occasion, we are witnessing an exercise of threat to the international rules based order, and the Prime Minister can even rouse himself to give it even the meekest of defences. France, Spain, Brazil, Mexico and the UN secretary general have all been clear that the Trump administration has violated international law.

When will the Prime Minister and the Foreign Secretary find their voices and join that chorus of condemnation?

19:00

Rt Hon Yvette Cooper MP, Foreign Secretary, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Pontefract, Castleford and Knottingley, Labour)

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Foreign Secretary. Minister's response has been very much in line with the leaders of countries not just across Europe, but across the world as well. And we continue to stand up for and highlight the importance of international law, but also to focus on the realities in Venezuela, where there has been huge damage done over a long time, including with the interference by Iran and by Russia in Venezuela as well, and to focus on what should be all of our priorities now, which is getting a democratic transition for Venezuela.

19:00

Lizzi Collinge MP (Morecambe and Lunesdale, Labour)

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Lizzi Collinge thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. We speak today from Deputy Speaker. We speak today from the heart of our democracy, where power transfers peacefully according to the will of the people. according to the will of the people. So I thank the Foreign Secretary for a statement. And does she agree with me that democracy is the right of all people, no matter where they live? And does she further agree with me that it's for Venezuelans to decide what their future holds? Foreign Secretary.

19:00

Rt Hon Yvette Cooper MP, Foreign Secretary, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Pontefract, Castleford and Knottingley, Labour)

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I completely. >> Agree with my hon. Friend and the people of Venezuela have been denied that democratic right for denied that democratic right for far too long. Election results have not been respected, and they have faced some of the most horrendous political repression, including on an industrial scale. The July 2024 elections were clearly not respected and the official results were never published. That is why we continue to work with the to talk to the opposition parties, and also to talk to others in Venezuela about the importance of getting that democratic transition in place.

19:01

Rt Hon Sir Andrew Mitchell MP (Sutton Coldfield, Conservative)

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Sir Andrew Mitchell of course. >> Madam Deputy Speaker, quite a lot depends on what now happens. But Mr. Maduro stole the elections But Mr. Maduro stole the elections in Venezuela in plain sight. He is a narco terrorist and has destroyed the lives of tens of thousands of American citizens and more widely, and made huge amounts of money out of it. Isn't the world a better place with him before the courts in New York? And in this case, do not the ends justify the means?

19:02

Rt Hon Yvette Cooper MP, Foreign Secretary, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Pontefract, Castleford and Knottingley, Labour)

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Foreign Secretary. >> So I think that. >> Venezuela is in a stronger position without Maduro leading position without Maduro leading them, despite given especially given the the horrendous human rights abuses, the huge damage to their economy as well. But he said at the beginning, the the implication from what he said was that this is important about what happens next and what happens next really does matter, and that is where the UK is determined to do everything we can to make sure that that is a transition to a democracy and to stability as well, because I don't think Venezuela will have stability without a proper democratic transition.

19:02

Rt Hon John McDonnell MP (Hayes and Harlington, Labour)

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John McDonnell. >> John McDonnell. >> The Secretary of State, has said that the role of the government has been to uphold international law, been to uphold international law, part of upholding international law is to call out crimes when they're witnessed. And what we've seen here, the article, article 2.4 of the United Nations Charter is very explicit about the illegality of entering into a foreign state with armed force, and that's why I have to say, I find it shameful that the Prime Minister and Ministers today in the newsrooms have refused to condemn this action because in not condemning the action, I think Trump will interpret that as the green light to go in wherever to to steal the national assets of those countries.

And as a result of that, we're all in a more dangerous place.

19:03

Rt Hon Yvette Cooper MP, Foreign Secretary, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Pontefract, Castleford and Knottingley, Labour)

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Well. importance of promoting international law in the most effective way also means promoting the rules based order and the rules based alliances that we have. It means being able to raise issues around international law, both publicly and privately, in a way that has the greatest results to defend the rules based order. That is what we will continue to do. And that, frankly, is what is in the UK's interest.

19:04

Alicia Kearns MP (Rutland and Stamford, Conservative)

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Alicia Kearns Venezuelans are relieved to be free of Maduro relieved to be free of Maduro tyranny. However, Venezuela risks remaining a failed state rather than a free state unless the international community comes together. Oil companies are not state builders, nor are they capable of democratic capacity building or enabling political transitions. I was surprised there was no mention of Foreign Secretary statement of plans to evacuate British nationals if possible, nor how many British nationals are in country. I also asked what phone calls the Foreign Secretary has had since this action, with the leader of Commonwealth country and nation, Guyana, to whom we have an important relationship.

And if she hasn't spoken to that leader, why.

19:05

Rt Hon Yvette Cooper MP, Foreign Secretary, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Pontefract, Castleford and Knottingley, Labour)

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Foreign Secretary? >> Foreign Secretary? >> So as they set out, I think in my statement, there are estimated my statement, there are estimated 500 British nationals in Venezuela. We did look at all necessary possible crisis responses over the weekend. We stood up the crisis facility in the Foreign Office to ensure that we were ready to respond, if necessary, at any point. It did not go beyond the response that we did put out around changing travel advice. And over the weekend, British nationals were advised to to shelter in place while it was assessed what might be happening next.

We have had some consular contact, but it has been very limited and we have obviously been available to any British nationals who want our support as we would continue to be. We are also in contact with Commonwealth countries and also with overseas territories in particular. My hon. Friend. My hon. Friend is following up with overseas territories who are particularly affected by instability in the region.

19:06

Rachel Blake MP (Cities of London and Westminster, Labour )

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Rachel Blake. I'm grateful for the Foreign Secretary's remarks, and she's talked about instability in the region and the need for grassroots investment in order for there to be a peaceful transition. Can she share with us the assessment that she's made about the impact of economic instability in the region and the role of businesses in the region, and how that instability could, could feed into and damage the possibility of a peaceful transition?

19:06

Rt Hon Yvette Cooper MP, Foreign Secretary, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Pontefract, Castleford and Knottingley, Labour)

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Secretary Mark Francois. >> Is exactly right, because the nature of the economic crisis in Venezuela over the last decade has pushed huge numbers of Venezuelans pushed huge numbers of Venezuelans into extreme hardship. It is one of the reasons why so many Venezuelans have left the country. An estimated 1 in 4 Venezuelans have left the country over the last ten years as a result. And this should be a country with a strong economy. It is very important to build that up. But crucially, that has to be to the benefit of the people of Venezuela, not to the benefit of criminals or corrupt regimes.

19:07

Richard Foord MP (Honiton and Sidmouth, Liberal Democrat)

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Richard Foord Deputy Speaker, >> Richard Foord Deputy Speaker, this is about being principled. What if we were to learn from the White House that Greenland had been the source of cocaine or fentanyl flowing to the United States, even if we don't expect a fabricated pretext on Greenland or imminent US intervention there, will the government please condemn the unilateral action in Venezuela by the Trump administration? Before we see a complete breakdown of the rules based order?

19:07

Rt Hon Yvette Cooper MP, Foreign Secretary, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Pontefract, Castleford and Knottingley, Labour)

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Well, I think you will have heard in my statement, me setting heard in my statement, me setting out very strongly our position on Greenland, on Denmark, and we will continue to do so because we are very clear this is about the NATO alliance, this is about the rules based order, and this is about our close ally, Andy Slaughter.

19:07

Andy Slaughter MP (Hammersmith and Chiswick, Labour)

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Thank you, Madam Speaker. abide by international law, and I would not expect her to publish the legal advice she has received from the law officers and others. But I would expect her to set out the government's own analysis of whether and how the acts of US forces towards Venezuela comply with the rule of law. So will she now do that?

19:08

Rt Hon Yvette Cooper MP, Foreign Secretary, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Pontefract, Castleford and Knottingley, Labour)

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Yes. will obviously know the constraints in the ministerial code in terms of discussing legal advice. We, as I said, have set out that it is obviously for the US to set out publicly their legal basis for the actions that they have taken. We have raised the issue of international law. I have directly raised that with the US Secretary of State, set out our views and our concerns, and the importance of urging all partners to abide by international law.

19:08

Simon Hoare MP (North Dorset, Conservative)

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Simon Hoare thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. The question is not whether Mr. Maduro was a good man. whether Mr. Maduro was a good man. That is a clear no brainer. The essay question here, as others have asked, is whether the actions of the US president were legal and America cannot be expected to mark her own homework. So two questions to the Foreign Secretary, if I may. The first is what body or bodies would she identify as being the responsible body to adjudicate on the legality of the American action? And secondly, the vice president of Venezuela has this afternoon been sworn in as the new president.

Her hands are as tainted with the previous regime as Maduro. What read across should this House have from that incident?

19:09

Rt Hon Yvette Cooper MP, Foreign Secretary, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Pontefract, Castleford and Knottingley, Labour)

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Foreign Secretary. >> Well, the UN Security Council has been discussing the issue about Venezuela today, and I'm sure those Venezuela today, and I'm sure those international discussions will continue on the issue of the Vice president being sworn in, we continue not to recognise the legitimacy of the Venezuelan regime. We do want to see stability and a transition to democracy, and we are urging the vice president to take now the steps for that transition and to a democracy that respects

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the will and the human rights of the Venezuelan people. Perran Moon Madam.

19:10

Perran Moon MP (Camborne and Redruth, Labour)

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>> Perran Moon Madam. Venezuela. >> Is a. Brutal and.

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Failed and highly dangerous state. But across. Eastern Europe, the.

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Eastern Europe, the. Implications of this action will be deeply destabilising. Can I ask the Foreign. Secretary

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Can I ask the Foreign. Secretary in her discussions with the US Secretary of State when she mentioned international law with him, did she reference the message that this action sends to Putin and Russia's ambitions in Europe?

19:10

Rt Hon Yvette Cooper MP, Foreign Secretary, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Pontefract, Castleford and Knottingley, Labour)

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Foreign Secretary well. >> What my hon. Friend will know is that we continually discuss the threat from Russia and the importance of the transatlantic alliance supporting Ukraine with the US. And I have discussed that many times with the US Secretary of State. The Prime Minister has discussed that continually with the US president, and we are clear about the importance of defending Ukraine. The Prime Minister will tomorrow be part of the coalition of the willing, which is exactly about supporting Ukraine.

And we have to ensure that as we build those international alliances, we do so in the most effective way to support Ukraine. I can also assure him that I raise the issue of international law and the concerns that we have with the US Secretary of State.

19:11

Rt Hon Gavin Robinson MP (Belfast East, Democratic Unionist Party)

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Gavin Robinson. >> Thank you. >> Very much, Madam Deputy Speaker. I think. >> It's clear that the Foreign Secretary supports the end, if not Secretary supports the end, if not the means. And I think it is clear that she accepts the outcome, though she can't bring herself nor though she can't bring herself nor the government to condone the actions of President Trump. But today we learned that the Chinese have warned against both touching the oil resources of Venezuela, and also demanded the return of President Maduro.

Does she see that as sabre rattling, or is she concerned? Great.

19:12

Rt Hon Yvette Cooper MP, Foreign Secretary, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Pontefract, Castleford and Knottingley, Labour)

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Well. that there have been many concerns about the engagement, particularly about the engagement, particularly as well, of Iran and Russia in the oil industry. In Venezuela. He referred to issues around China and the position of the Chinese government. I would just say is, I think the oil industry in Venezuela should be benefiting the people of Venezuela, not other countries, not corrupt regimes, but actually the people of Venezuela.

19:12

Ms Stella Creasy MP (Walthamstow, Labour )

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Stella Creasy, thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. The truth is the warning signs that the rules based warning signs that the rules based order is at risk have been there for some time. In her evidence to the Congress during the impeachment inquiry into President Trump, the former White House adviser on Russia and Europe, Fiona Hill, claimed that an informal offer was made by Russia to withdraw their support for Venezuela in exchange for America withdrawing its support for Ukraine. In the light of these events, will the Foreign Secretary confirm in her conversations with our American counterparts that this specific allegation has been raised and what response she had? Foreign Secretary? Well.

19:13

Rt Hon Yvette Cooper MP, Foreign Secretary, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Pontefract, Castleford and Knottingley, Labour)

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I think we continue to have very important discussions with the US important discussions with the US about Ukraine and about support for Ukraine. And many of those discussions have been about the security guarantees that the US would provide as part of a peace agreement for Ukraine. Those security guarantees involve the US providing that support, working with other European countries, that will continue to be a central objective of our foreign policy now.

19:14

Sir Bernard Jenkin MP (Harwich and North Essex, Conservative)

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So, Bernard Jenkin. >> Madam Deputy Speaker. >> To those who still harbour illusions about an idealised world of international rules which will of international rules which will be abided by all, shouldn't we just say we're welcome to the real world, where might very often proves to be right and we have to face the circumstances that we are in? Can I therefore give my support to the government's ambivalence as supported as as supported by my right hon.

Friend, who I think also rightly criticised the slow pace of rearmament? And that's all she disagreed with the government about. But can she now avoid blowing the bridges that we have with the United States and use that influence? And doesn't she agree it really would be stupid to slag off President Trump. Now, when we want to have influence over what he does next?

19:15

Rt Hon Yvette Cooper MP, Foreign Secretary, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Pontefract, Castleford and Knottingley, Labour)

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Foreign Secretary well. that he's raising about the international rules based order and the sort of global power politics we obviously and he and I are old enough to have sort of the experience and reflections on the Cold War, which was all about the great power politics and the difficulties. Also at a time when post the Second World War, we had worked hard to develop a rules based order alongside those big military global tensions. So this has been a part of global history for a long time.

The tensions between how you maintain an international law and an international rules based order, and also how you engage with the different competing interests, sometimes from some of the biggest countries in the world, sometimes from some of the smaller countries in the world who have particular power in particular areas. In terms of the UK's approach, we continue to believe in the importance of a rules based order and the importance of that kind of international framework. We also engage with the world as it is, the world as we face it, and we need to be able to do so and to be agile in responding to that.

19:16

Imran Hussain MP (Bradford East, Labour)

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Imran Hussain thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. Regardless of what Deputy Speaker. Regardless of what is said in this place, it is clear for all to see that Trump's illegal actions in Venezuela are a blatant violation of international law. And now he has Greenland clearly in his sight. And frankly, the response from the international community and our own government has been shameful. How can we pretend to defend international law? But how can we pretend to defend international law when we refuse to even condemn the most blatant of violations and do not apply equally? The reality is we are sending a green light that the rules international rules, no longer apply.

And let's call this what this is. Trump's actions are not about democracy. It's about oil and old fashioned colonialism. So I give the Foreign Secretary the opportunity again, if she truly believes and wants to stand up for international law, she should stand up on that Dispatch Box and condemn these illegal actions. And if she does not, then she should admit she.

19:17

Rt Hon Yvette Cooper MP, Foreign Secretary, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Pontefract, Castleford and Knottingley, Labour)

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I think we've got the gist. We really do need to have shorter questions, or everyone is simply not going to get in. Foreign not going to get in. Foreign Secretary yeah, I would just remind the hon. Member the Maduro regime was a deeply authoritarian and was a deeply authoritarian and corrupt regime which allowed countries like Russia and Iran and Hezbollah to intervene to increase their influence in that country. We should not shed a tear for the end of the Maduro regime.

What we should do is work for democracy that is in our values. That is what we will continue to do, and we will also continue to stand up for international law.

19:18

Rt Hon Alistair Carmichael MP (Orkney and Shetland, Liberal Democrat)

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Alistair Carmichael thank. >> You. Speaker. >> Last time I saw this degree of agreement between the government and opposition front benches in and opposition front benches in relation to foreign policy was in the run up to the war in Iraq, and the run up to the war in Iraq, and we all know how that ended. But can I welcome what the Foreign Secretary says about being clear that the leadership of Venezuela must reflect the will of the Venezuelan people? So when she spoke to Secretary Rubio, did she condemn President Trump's assertion that he should run Venezuela for

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the foreseeable future? Secretary. Well. I think what we've seen happen in practice is obviously the US do in practice is obviously the US do not have boots on the ground in Venezuela, and the vice president Venezuela, and the vice president has been sworn in. We are continuing not to recognise the continuing not to recognise the vice president as a legitimate regime in Venezuela, and continuing regime in Venezuela, and continuing to press for a democratic transition. I discussed with the US Secretary of State the importance of a democratic transition, the importance of working with the opposition, and also the role that the UK could play in doing that, because I think ultimately this has to be about making sure that the will of the Venezuelan people is respected.

19:19

Sonia Kumar MP (Dudley, Labour)

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Sonia Kumar. >> Sonia Kumar. >> Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. United Nations Charter states article 2.4. All members shall article 2.4. All members shall refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of relations from the threat or use of force against territorial integrity or political independence of any state. Does the Secretary of State agree that even when a president lacks democratic legitimacy, any peaceful transition in Venezuela must be in the hands of their people and not dictated by foreign

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governments, who must follow international law? Yeah. I think the peaceful.

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I think the peaceful. Transition is essential, and it has to be to democracy, and it has to be about reflecting the will of the Venezuelan people. That is why I have spoken today to Maria Corina I have spoken today to Maria Corina machado, and that is what we will continue to press for. And the our

19:20

Rt Hon Yvette Cooper MP, Foreign Secretary, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Pontefract, Castleford and Knottingley, Labour)

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continue to press for. And the our embassy in Caracas will continue to press for. Doctor Andrew Murrison.

19:20

Rt Hon Dr Andrew Murrison MP (South West Wiltshire, Conservative)

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Will the. Government use any influence? Its silence. >> To impress on. may. >> Be expedient for. >> The UK. >> To acquiesce in the removal of.

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To acquiesce in the removal of. A hideous old tyrant. Nicolas Maduro, hemispheric hemispheric proto colonialism that threatens UK interests or the integrity of any Commonwealth country or any European neighbour, would destroy the special relationship that has existed between our countries since the Second World War.

19:20

Rt Hon Yvette Cooper MP, Foreign Secretary, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Pontefract, Castleford and Knottingley, Labour)

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Foreign Secretary. >> So I think the hon. Member is effectively referring to Greenland and to Denmark. Let me just be and to Denmark. Let me just be really clear. This is part of Greenland, is part of the Kingdom of Denmark, and we have said so extremely strongly we will continue to do so. The Prime Minister has said so today. And I have been in touch with the Danish Foreign Minister today. You will have seen the strong statements, not just from the Danish Prime Minister, but from other leaders, particularly across the Nordic states as well.

This is immensely important to us. We are all NATO allies. We need to all work together. That is part of how we strengthen our security. Speaker.

19:21

Peter Prinsley MP (Bury St Edmunds and Stowmarket, Labour)

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So there is a central question here, which is, simply put, if we do not condemn the American actions do not condemn the American actions in Venezuela, what is to stop dictators around the world acting in a similar way against our allies and our interests? Does the Secretary of State agree that rules do matter?

19:22

Rt Hon Yvette Cooper MP, Foreign Secretary, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Pontefract, Castleford and Knottingley, Labour)

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Foreign Secretary well. not only that rules matter, that international law matters, and also that we need to ensure we look at the different circumstances of the different circumstances of different situations and rightly approach each one in turn. It is why we have set out the position that we have today on Greenland. And I do also say I do really caution hon. Members against creating equivalence between different situations in different parts of the world, very different circumstances in very different countries.

We have to be realistic about the differences between them in the approach that we take.

19:22

Rt Hon Jeremy Corbyn MP (Islington North, Independent)

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Jeremy Corbyn thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. Has the Foreign Secretary had an opportunity to study the United States national study the United States national security statement that he made at the end of November, in which they appear to give themselves the right to intervene in any country in the Western Hemisphere in order to exploit raw materials and minerals. Is she not concerned that threats, overt threats, are now being made against Colombia and Cuba, as well as the illegal kidnapping of Maduro? Is she going to make any representations, representations to the USA about that as well?

19:23

Rt Hon Yvette Cooper MP, Foreign Secretary, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Pontefract, Castleford and Knottingley, Labour)

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Defence Secretary well. >> Let me just say on Colombia, for example, we have worked closely with the government of Colombia. We are continue to be the the pen are continue to be the the pen holder on Colombia at the UN and continue to work closely with them. We also have made representations around aspects around the national security strategy, where we take a very different view to the US all. I would say to the hon. Gentleman, I know he has a long history in this area, but it has included support for the Maduro regime, which is now being investigated for crimes against humanity.

19:23

Paula Barker MP (Liverpool Wavertree, Labour)

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Paula Barker thank you, Madam. Deputy Speaker. Compliance with international law is not an either international law is not an either or, and I'm extremely concerned that the action of the United States shows utter disdain for international law and leaves enormous uncertainty over the future of Venezuela. It removes a leader whose rule was corrupt and cruel. But rather than celebrating, many people, there are now stocking up on food and medicines out of concerns of what comes next. Trump's rationale around stopping drug trafficking rings hollow following his pardon for ex Honduran Honduran President Hernandez.

So what specific actions will the government take to stabilise the situation so the Venezuelan people can decide their own future, and also to ensure President Trump does not act on his threats against Colombia, Cuba and Greenland?

19:24

Rt Hon Yvette Cooper MP, Foreign Secretary, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Pontefract, Castleford and Knottingley, Labour)

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Foreign Secretary I think the I've responded obviously on the other countries as well. But look, other countries as well. But look, the the critical issue now is to ensure that Venezuela can be on a track towards democracy that respects the will of the Venezuelan people, but also the human rights of the Venezuelan people. And the first step on that has to be the ending of political repression and the release of political prisoners. So that is an issue that I have discussed with the leader of the Venezuelan opposition.

It's also an issue that I have raised with the US Secretary of State as well, and it is an issue that we will be pursuing through our embassy, where we do have particular weight and expertise.

19:25

Rt Hon David Mundell MP (Dumfriesshire, Clydesdale and Tweeddale, Conservative)

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David Mundell thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. Can the Foreign Deputy Speaker. Can the Foreign Secretary say a bit more about engagement with the Commonwealth? Because not only are two Because not only are two Commonwealth countries immediately adjacent to Venezuela, there is an important Commonwealth network across the Caribbean. And surely there must be a danger at this moment that some of those countries might think that their interests are better served by looking to the United States than to the Commonwealth and the UK.

19:25

Rt Hon Yvette Cooper MP, Foreign Secretary, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Pontefract, Castleford and Knottingley, Labour)

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Foreign Secretary we do continue with a very strong engagement with with a very strong engagement with the Commonwealth and our continuing so as well, in the the light of the weekend's events to there are Commonwealth countries and also overseas territories that have been heavily affected by the instability and the region, including the instability driven by the Maduro regime, the scale of the narco trafficking, but also in the criminal gang operations, and also the scale and pace of migration as well, that has been very destabilising.

We are engaging with them as well to be able to work with them on ensuring that there can be stability in the region, because that is in everyone's interests.

19:26

Kirsteen Sullivan MP (Bathgate and Linlithgow, Labour )

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Kirsteen Sullivan thank you, >> Kirsteen Sullivan thank you, Madam Speaker. There can be no question that is for the people of Venezuela to choose its future and for the international community to support democracy and uphold international law. Whilst there is no denying the illegitimacy and brutality of Maduros regime, does she share my fears that such unilateral action sends a dangerous message to despots and tyrants throughout the world? That might is right, and it endangers peace and democracy throughout the world?

19:27

Rt Hon Yvette Cooper MP, Foreign Secretary, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Pontefract, Castleford and Knottingley, Labour)

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Yeah, true. >> Obviously have to. >> Keep in mind this was a an authoritarian dictator who is being investigated by the International Criminal Court for crimes against humanity, and therefore that is why the Prime Minister said we will shed no tears for the removal of Maduro. But we also believe in the international rules based order and the importance of countries respecting that. And we have raised that with the US.

19:27

Richard Tice MP (Boston and Skegness, Reform UK)

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Richard Tice. >> Richard Tice. >> Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. >> Maduro was an enemy of the West and whilst there is disagreement. >> In this.

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In this. House about the means, I think there is much agreement that actually the Venezuelan people are actually the Venezuelan people are better off without Maduro. But can I ask the Foreign Secretary to comment more about the constructive influence that the UK and other Western allies can have to ensure an early return for the Venezuelan people to aid democracy?

19:28

Rt Hon Yvette Cooper MP, Foreign Secretary, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Pontefract, Castleford and Knottingley, Labour)

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Foreign Secretary. >> Foreign Secretary. >> Well, I think the most important issue now is to ensure that Venezuela can be on that track to Venezuela can be on that track to democracy. That means there has to be stability right now. We need to prevent further instability or criminality, but also means that that starting with the end to political repression, the release of political prisoners who are held across Venezuela, those are some of the things that opposition parties are calling for as the urgent first steps.

Those are the things that the UK will press for and we will press for directly in Venezuela and in our relationship with the US as

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part of this process going forward. Speaker. There's clearly. No question about the

19:28

Matt Western MP (Warwick and Leamington, Labour)

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>> No question about the illegitimacy of Maduro's presidency, but there are questions about President Trump driving a coach and

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President Trump driving a coach and horses through the global rules based order. How should. We. The UK, now view the United

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The UK, now view the United States national security strategy

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in the light of this recent action? So the US set out their national security. We separately set out our

19:29

Rt Hon Yvette Cooper MP, Foreign Secretary, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Pontefract, Castleford and Knottingley, Labour)

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national security strategy, which is different clearly from theirs. And I have raised with the US in particular issues around the US national security strategy. It is for them, obviously, to set out for them, obviously, to set out their priorities as a democratically elected government. But I think this comes back to the But I think this comes back to the issue about we believe in the importance not just of hemispheres importance not just of hemispheres of interest, but actually of the transatlantic alliance.

And that has been a cornerstone of UK security. We have this unique security partnership with the US that remains important that alongside the international rule of law. Aphra Brandreth.

19:29

Aphra Brandreth MP (Chester South and Eddisbury, Conservative)

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Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. >> Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. >> I welcome the removal of Nicolas Maduro, who for too long oppressed the people of Venezuela. But the people of Venezuela. But history shows that the aftermath of intervention can be as consequential as the intervention itself. What specific steps is the Foreign Secretary taking to ensure that there is no vacuum for instability or hostile actors to exploit, both within Venezuela and across the wider region, particularly other hostile state actors such as Rhinor, Russia, China and Iran.

Secretary.

19:30

Rt Hon Yvette Cooper MP, Foreign Secretary, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Pontefract, Castleford and Knottingley, Labour)

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I think that's an extremely important issue, and that is exactly the issue I've discussed exactly the issue I've discussed with US Secretary of State Rubio yesterday as to how we ensure that there is stability in Venezuela and that stability is then on a pathway to democracy because the and look, I don't believe stability will be maintained if there is not that route to democracy and the plan and the transition to democracy. But equally, it is hugely important to ensure that we do not have greater destabilisation, including by countries like Russia and Iran, but also by the criminal gangs that have been so deeply destructive and were allowed to become so powerful under the Maduro regime.

19:31

Warinder Juss (Wolverhampton West, Labour)

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Gurinder Josan thank. confirmation that this government supports international law and now wants to see a safe and peaceful transition to a legitimate government that reflects the will of the people in Venezuela. But would the Foreign Secretary at least agree with me that if Donald Trump's unilateral action was in breach of international law and the UN charter, it has created a very dangerous precedent?

19:31

Rt Hon Yvette Cooper MP, Foreign Secretary, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Pontefract, Castleford and Knottingley, Labour)

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Foreign Secretary. >> Well. >> The reason. >> That we stand up for the UN charter and international law is charter and international law is partly because it reflects our values and partly because it reflects our interests, and because reflects our interests, and because that UN charter, that international law framework really is the underpinning of peace and security across the globe. Of course, throughout its history, throughout the history of the UN charter, throughout decades of history, that has always been tested and strained with the reality of different kinds of international affairs all over the world, and will continue to be so.

But we still believe in the importance of advocating for international law and to doing so with our closest allies as well. Ellie Chowns thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. The US attack on Venezuela is clearly a breach of international law. Now, of course,

19:32

Dr Ellie Chowns MP (North Herefordshire, Green Party)

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Maduro's violent, repressive regime must be held accountable, but the Venezuelan people need and deserve international support that upholds international law, not the unilateral, unlawful US oil imperialism that we've seen. So does the does the Foreign Secretary recognise that a key function of recognise that a key function of the Foreign Secretary, any Foreign Secretary, is to defend and uphold international law? Does she international law? Does she recognise that a year of pandering to and pussyfooting around Donald Trump has had no restraining effect, instead has emboldened him? And will she condemn that illegal US action?

19:32

Rt Hon Yvette Cooper MP, Foreign Secretary, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Pontefract, Castleford and Knottingley, Labour)

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Foreign Secretary. >> Well. interests. >> Of the people of Venezuela, because that was where she started because that was where she started her discussion. And what I think is in the interests of the people of in the interests of the people of Venezuela is not the Maduro regime, but a transition to democracy. We have worked for many years for a peaceful transition to democracy, in line with international law, and that continues to be our policy. But we will work with the reality on the ground.

We will work with all of those involved, and we will use the particular assets that we have with our experienced embassy in order to promote the transition to democracy in a safe and stable a way as possible. That's exactly why we are in touch with the Venezuelan opposition.

19:33

Jon Trickett MP (Normanton and Hemsworth, Labour)

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Jon Trickett, thank you very much, ma'am. And can I say there were three conditions which the Foreign Secretary said to judging the transition, that it be peaceful and that it be complying with international law, and that it had the support of the Venezuelan people. All of those three conditions were broken by a lethal attack by a foreign power planned not in Caracas, but in Washington and in breach of the UN charter. But can I ask the Foreign Secretary to turn of mind for a second, to advise the House on her reaction to the president's idea that he's going to seize the Venezuelan oil and turn Venezuelan state into a colony? None of those things can be part of any Labour government supporting them.

Three.

19:34

Rt Hon Yvette Cooper MP, Foreign Secretary, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Pontefract, Castleford and Knottingley, Labour)

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Well, I would say to my hon. Friend, is the Maduro regime did not have the support of the not have the support of the Venezuelan people. That was the consequence of the July 2024 election, for which they have continually refused to publish the results because all of the evidence that Maduro had lost the election. And also, we have been very clear that the oil in Venezuela should be to the benefit of the Venezuelan people. That is what's most important now.

19:35

Sir Geoffrey Clifton-Brown MP (North Cotswolds, Conservative)

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So, Geoffrey Clifton-Brown. The Foreign. >> Secretary has. Repeated time. After time today that she believes in the rules based system. in the rules based system. Therefore, will she argue for that vociferously at the United Nations so that the world knows what British values are? Will she also discuss with the American administration a realistic plan to get Venezuela into a democracy and make it clear, as she's just said, that the oil benefits the Venezuelan people and no one else?

19:35

Rt Hon Yvette Cooper MP, Foreign Secretary, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Pontefract, Castleford and Knottingley, Labour)

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Secretary. >> Secretary. >> So I think yes is the answer to his questions. We are continuing to raise and promote international law raise and promote international law through the United Nations and the Security Council, also continuing to raise the importance of international law with the US administration on a range of different issues, and also continuing to argue for a democratic transition in which Venezuelan assets should be used for the Venezuelan people.

19:36

Kim Johnson MP (Liverpool Riverside, Labour)

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After the next contribution, I'm >> After the next contribution, I'm going to come to Steve Darling from the Liberal Democrats. Kim Johnson.

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the Liberal Democrats. Kim Johnson. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. If the Foreign. Secretary believes that the rule based order is important, then why has she and the Prime Minister not condemned the actions of Trump? And does she agree with me? That is nothing more than a megalomaniac. And this is imperialism by another name. Yeah, true.

19:36

Rt Hon Yvette Cooper MP, Foreign Secretary, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Pontefract, Castleford and Knottingley, Labour)

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Well. >> Again, what I would say is the Maduro regime has been deeply damaging for the people of Venezuela. We don't shed a tear for Venezuela. We don't shed a tear for the end of the Maduro regime. We do believe, however, that it is essential that we get a peaceful transition to democracy in line with the rule of law and in line with international law. That is what we have continued to argue for over many years and are continuing to argue for now, because that is what is in the interests of the Venezuelan people.

19:37

Steve Darling MP (Torbay, Liberal Democrat)

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Steve Darling thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. And with Donald Deputy Speaker. And with Donald Trump taking a leaf out of the Putin playbook and becoming a international gangster in the international gangster in the Americas, what assurance can the Secretary of State say, give, give this chamber that the coalition of the willing to protect Ukraine will become the coalition of the capable to defend Ukraine?

19:37

Rt Hon Yvette Cooper MP, Foreign Secretary, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Pontefract, Castleford and Knottingley, Labour)

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Foreign Secretary. >> Foreign Secretary. >> Well, again, I really would say advise members against somehow advise members against somehow suggesting there is equivalence between what happened this weekend and Putins brutal invasion of Ukraine, the kidnapping of thousands of children in Ukraine, the targeting of a democratically elected President Zelenskyy, and the continued war in Ukraine where we will continue to work with the US in defence of Ukraine. That is why we are pursuing the issue of security guarantees as part of NATO, as part of our transatlantic alliance, which is immensely important to the security of the UK and to the security of Ukraine.

19:38

Steve Witherden MP (Montgomeryshire and Glyndŵr, Labour)

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Steve Witherden. >> Thank you, Madam. Deputy Speaker. >> President Trump. >> Has behaved like a member of a criminal gang bombing Venezuela, a sovereign country, kidnapping its head of state and his family and killing many in the process. Where next? Colombia, Cuba? Mexico? Panama? Greenland? Here. Does my right hon. Friend agree that if we do not stand up to deviants and bullies like Trump, they will only be emboldened to repeat their illegal acts elsewhere.

19:39

Rt Hon Yvette Cooper MP, Foreign Secretary, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Pontefract, Castleford and Knottingley, Labour)

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I just point out to my hon. Friend that Maduro was not a recognised head of state by the UK government and by many governments, not least because of the deep corruption, the refusal to respect the July 2024 election and the deep damage that he had done, including now being investigated for crimes against humanity, and also the impact. He talked about the impact on neighbouring countries. Neighbouring countries have also suffered deep damage as a result of the Maduro regime allowing criminal gangs to operate so extensively from Venezuela, and also the rapid migration of so many people from Venezuela.

As a result of the crisis.

19:39

David Reed MP (Exmouth and Exeter East, Conservative)

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David Reed. >> David Reed. >> Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I listened to the Foreign Secretary now for the last hour and a half, and I'm still completely unclear and I'm still completely unclear what the government's foreign policy position is on Venezuela. So I'll ask a more direct question. Does the Foreign Secretary agree with the United States? Monroe Doctrine.

19:40

Rt Hon Yvette Cooper MP, Foreign Secretary, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Pontefract, Castleford and Knottingley, Labour)

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Foreign Secretary. >> Foreign Secretary. >> Well, the US has set out, I think, very different versions of think, very different versions of the Monroe document has been interpreted. Doctrine has been interpreted in very, very many interpreted in very, very many different ways over decades and through generations in different ways. And historians will dispute that. What I can set out is the UK's approach and our foreign policy approach, which is to stand up for Britain's interests in security and prosperity and also our values.

That is why we not only stand up for the international rule of law, but why we also maintain the crucial security alliances, which are based on laws and values such as NATO and our transatlantic partnership.

19:40

Justin Madders MP (Ellesmere Port and Bromborough, Labour)

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Justin Madders. set out how it's possible not to shed a tear for Maduro's removal, but also to be concerned about upholding international law. And in that regard, this should not be seen as a light for green land. So with that in mind, could she confirm to the house that when she spoke to Secretary of State Rubio, she specifically registered the UK government's position in respect of Greenland?

19:41

Rt Hon Yvette Cooper MP, Foreign Secretary, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Pontefract, Castleford and Knottingley, Labour)

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Secretary. So I have been in >> Secretary. So I have been in touch with the US Secretary of State about our position on Greenland. The Prime Minister has also made it extremely clear today and obviously have made it very clear to the House this we feel this very strongly. It is important that Greenland is part of Denmark, and also that the future of Greenland is for the people of Greenland and nobody else.

19:41

Ben Lake MP (Ceredigion Preseli, Plaid Cymru)

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Ben Lake Foreign Secretary I shed no tears for the fall of the shed no tears for the fall of the Maduro regime. However, I do fear for the precedent that President Trump's actions have set over the weekend. Can I ask Foreign Secretary for assessment? For global stability? If dictators and despots across the world will take a very simple lesson from the US's right.

19:42

Rt Hon Yvette Cooper MP, Foreign Secretary, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Pontefract, Castleford and Knottingley, Labour)

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I Foreign Secretary. Well, what we have seen obviously is a we have seen obviously is a dictator. Maduro, who is no longer running his country and he and I rightfully neither of us will shed any tears for that. It is important, however, that we uphold international law and the rules based order, and also our values. And those values include recognising the democracy and sovereignty for the Venezuelan people, which has frankly not been respected by the Maduro regime over very many years.

19:42

Ian Lavery MP (Blyth and Ashington, Labour)

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Ian Lavery thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. >> The whole world is asking now who's next, who's on this list? Is it Cuba? Mexico? Panama? Greenland, Canada or Colombia? The attack on Venezuela sparked a wave of regional instability, including in Colombia. The Colombian peace agreement, Madam Deputy Speaker, is under threat, exacerbated by the rhetoric from President Trump, who was outrageously smeared Petro as a drug dealer and threatened further military intervention targeting Colombia directly. Given the UK's role as UN Security Council penholder for the Colombian peace agreement, will the Secretary of State make immediate representations to a US counterparts to cease these reckless threats against a close UK partner?

19:43

Rt Hon Yvette Cooper MP, Foreign Secretary, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Pontefract, Castleford and Knottingley, Labour)

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Foreign Secretary. >> Well, what I would say to my hon. Friend is the instability of the region has been heavily the region has been heavily exacerbated and driven by the Maduro regime, by the pay, the scale of migration, by the trafficking and the operations of criminal gangs, and also by the escalating influence from Iran, from Hezbollah and from Russia in the region as well. On Colombia, he rightly says, we are the pen holder and we support the peace process.

That was agreed. And we have worked closely with the Colombian government on sustaining that peace process. We believe that is extremely important. We will do that through the UN and through with all our allies, and we will continue to do so.

19:44

Dr Ben Spencer MP (Runnymede and Weybridge, Conservative)

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Ben Spencer thank you. Madam Deputy Speaker as chair, as the chair of the all party group on Nordic countries, I'm very grateful Nordic countries, I'm very grateful to her and the leader of the opposition's comments. Regards to Denmark and Greenland. I'm also very grateful that she's confirmed just a few moments ago that she and the Prime Minister have been raising directly the issue about respect for sovereignty for that key NATO ally. Why, then, did it take so long for the Prime Minister to publicly espouse, to support, so delayed after the Swedish and Finnish and other countries have done so? Foreign Secretary.

19:44

Alan Gemmell MP (Central Ayrshire, Labour)

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Well, he did say this morning >> Well, he did say this morning when he was asked about it. Alan Gemmell.

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Gemmell. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. The UK's overriding interest should be to maintain international law be to maintain international law and to keep as many countries as possible in the global rules based order, and ensuring that what has happened in Venezuela is not a gift to Russia or China is the Foreign Secretary, so that we can maintain our position at the Security Council and promote our values, interests and the rules based order.

19:45

Rt Hon Yvette Cooper MP, Foreign Secretary, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Pontefract, Castleford and Knottingley, Labour)

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And that is what we need to >> And that is what we need to continue to do. The approach of progressive realism that my predecessor set out as part of our manifesto was about how we pursue our values, but also how we recognise the world as it is not, which is, sadly, often not the way we want it to be. How we continue to pursue those values in the most effective way, both publicly and privately, through our alliances, and how we make sure that our foreign policy and our decisions are guided by international law.

19:45

Tim Farron MP (Westmorland and Lonsdale, Liberal Democrat)

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Tim Farron thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. Britain is Deputy Speaker. Britain is historically America's best friend, and best friends tell their friends when they are acting appallingly. They don't go in to toadying mode. As my right hon. Friends have mentioned already in 2003, in this House, a Labour government voted with conservative support to illegally invade Iraq, and the consequences was the undermining of international law, the emboldening of despots around the world, and Britain's security and safety and significance massively degraded.

Have we learnt nothing from that lesson of nearly 25 years ago, and have we not learnt the one lesson above all of history? And that is a view of MPs bullies. You soon become their victims. EE.

19:46

Rt Hon Yvette Cooper MP, Foreign Secretary, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Pontefract, Castleford and Knottingley, Labour)

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Well, let me just just say again >> Well, let me just just say again to the hon. Member. I think the continual sort of false equivalence continual sort of false equivalence with other issues around the world does not help any of the arguments and the issues that we are dealing with. We have an important issue now in terms of what happened in Venezuela, the operations that took place over the weekend. The UK was not a part of. We have set out a different foreign policy approach to Venezuela based on peaceful transition, support for democracy and the promotion of the international law, which we will continue to do.

But it is right that we do that in response to the world that we are in, to the alliances that we need to build in order to pursue our values and our interests. And in this case, in the case of Venezuela, to pursue democracy for Venezuela. Alex Sobel.

19:47

Alex Sobel MP (Leeds Central and Headingley, Labour )

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Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. >> Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. Democracy and human rights are sacrosanct. A new great game is replacing the international rules based order where might beats what is right. Does the Secretary of State share my concerns that our allies in Ukraine, Taiwan and elsewhere are less secure now than they were a week ago?

19:48

Rt Hon Yvette Cooper MP, Foreign Secretary, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Pontefract, Castleford and Knottingley, Labour)

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So what I would say to him is, I think throughout our history, there have been tensions. And throughout the history since the Second World War, there have been tensions between the issues around the rules based order, the international law that we have championed throughout, but also, for example, during the Cold War, the big tensions between major countries and some of the debates now that take place around global powers and also around different hemisphere spheres of interest as well, in terms of how the UK should navigate through that, we continue to maintain and uphold the importance of international law, and also the importance of the rules based order and the international framework of law, because we believe it is in our interests and we believe it is the right thing to do, and we will continue to do that.

But as part of that, we also have to maintain those rules based alliances, the alliances that are built on our values and underpinned by our values and laws, including the NATO alliance, including the transatlantic alliance. And that is important too. And that, I think, is crucial when it comes to Ukraine, something that I know he has strong, strongly worked on for a long time.

19:49

Stuart Anderson MP (South Shropshire, Conservative)

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Stuart Anderson thank you, Madam >> Stuart Anderson thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. 30% of the US naval fleet is positioned off the coast of Venezuela at the moment. These of Venezuela at the moment. These have been redeployed from many locations, particularly where there's joint UK, US deployments there's joint UK, US deployments such as Bahrain, where the fifth fleet have sent most of their ships over to Venezuela. There's 90% of the data cables between Europe and Asia. We are being left exposed in certain areas.

If this goes past the middle of January, what risk assessments are we taking to look that ensure that our troops are not exposed more than they need to be?

19:49

Rt Hon Yvette Cooper MP, Foreign Secretary, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Pontefract, Castleford and Knottingley, Labour)

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Well, on the issue of the undersea cables, this has been an undersea cables, this has been an important issue that we have looked at, not just in terms of UK defence, at, not just in terms of UK defence, but also internationally as well. It is something that we have discussed at NATO, something that we discussed as part of our alliances as well, and is why I think we do need to take much more seriously the operations of things like the the Russian shadow fleet, some of the Russian operations in our waters, and we will continue to do so.

19:50

Melanie Ward MP (Cowdenbeath and Kirkcaldy, Labour)

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Melanie Ward thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. There has been much discussion of international law discussion of international law today, but of course, what matters is that it is upheld that such a dangerous time in the world, our dangerous time in the world, our own country, is less safe when it is not. And so in the context of both Venezuela and Greenland, will the government reaffirm its commitment to the UN charter as a key instrument of international law, and will it vote accordingly at the UN Security Council?

19:50

Rt Hon Yvette Cooper MP, Foreign Secretary, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Pontefract, Castleford and Knottingley, Labour)

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Hear, hear. >> We do continue to support the UN charter. It is the foundation of our peace and security, and we will our peace and security, and we will continue to support it and its principles in all of our international debates. Lisa Smart Madam Deputy Speaker, I welcome the Foreign Secretary's clarity on the UK's approach to Greenland, that it is up to Greenlanders and Danes to determine their future and no one

19:51

Lisa Smart MP (Hazel Grove, Liberal Democrat)

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else. I wonder if she could be equally clear on whether any US bases in the UK will be permitted bases in the UK will be permitted to be used for any potential military action towards Greenland? military action towards Greenland? Well, we don't want to see any military action on Greenland and that should not arise because this that should not arise because this is a fellow NATO country. We are NATO members and all together we

19:51

Rt Hon Yvette Cooper MP, Foreign Secretary, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Pontefract, Castleford and Knottingley, Labour)

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NATO members and all together we should work security together. Just as an update, I'm only going to run this statement until quarter past, so questions and answers will need to be very short if everyone's going to get in. And the second statement will probably only get about 45 minutes. probably only get about 45 minutes.

19:51

Clive Efford MP (Eltham and Chislehurst, Labour)

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Clive Efford Mr Speaker. My hon. Friend for. Colombia and the the Secretary of State has set out quite correctly, that we are the penholder at the United Nations for the peace accord that was achieved in 2016. She after protracted negotiations between warring factions. And it's heavily based on our own. Our own agreements in Northern Ireland. So will the Secretary of State assure me that she's stressing to her counterparts in America the threat to peace in Colombia, that if we were to unravel that peace accord in any way, in in response to what's happened in Venezuela, in here, in here.

19:52

Rt Hon Yvette Cooper MP, Foreign Secretary, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Pontefract, Castleford and Knottingley, Labour)

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I can assure my hon. Friend that we continue to support and uphold the 2016 police, the peace accords, and also as the Penholder. As he rightly said, we work closely with the Colombian government on this and on how to deal with a range of threats to their stability. I would also recognise, of course, the Maduro regime did contribute to that instability in Colombia as a result of both the migration and the criminal operations, but we will continue to work with the Colombian government.

19:53

Ben Obese-Jecty MP (Huntingdon, Conservative)

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Ben Obese-Jecty Mr Speaker. position would be if the US took military action in Venezuela in light of the new US National Security Strategy, which clearly outlines the US administration's position regarding the Western Hemisphere and denial of influence to non hemispheric competitors, the answer wasn't clear. So following her discussion with Secretary Rubio, what assessment has she made that Venezuela may be the first domino in a chain across Central America that ends with Mexico? And also, if we don't now recognise Delcy Rodriguez as the legitimate president, is she one of the individuals we've already sanctioned? Foreign Secretary Peckham.

19:53

Rt Hon Yvette Cooper MP, Foreign Secretary, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Pontefract, Castleford and Knottingley, Labour)

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So the we want to see regional stability. We want to see calm and stability. We want to see calm and stability across the region and partnership working between nations. I think that is crucial in terms of the the it does. Rodriguez has clearly been part of the Maduro regime for a long period of time, and that is why we believe that there needs to be a transition to democracy in Venezuela that engages all of the different opposition parties and all of the different players within the within Venezuela.

And that is what we will work to do. And that is what I have discussed with Secretary Rubio. Torcuil Crichton.

19:54

Torcuil Crichton MP (Na h-Eileanan an Iar, Labour)

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Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. >> Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. Can I thank the Foreign Secretary for her statement and for her for her statement and for her stamina? And over that last hour and 40 minutes, no one has regretted the downfall of Nicolas Maduro. But notwithstanding what the Secretary of State has talked about, this tension between practical progressive realism and political principle, few of us can condone his kidnapping to stand trial in the domestic courts of another country.

This is all hallmarks of a treacherous deal between the remnants of the Maduro regime and the United States. But does the second state also accept that it signals the end of the rules based international order, and the fraying of that order benefits not our friends in the West, but our foes in the East as well.

19:55

Rt Hon Yvette Cooper MP, Foreign Secretary, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Pontefract, Castleford and Knottingley, Labour)

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So the I think I would just reiterate the point that I've made reiterate the point that I've made about the there have always been challenges and strains around frameworks of international law and the realities of particular issues in different parts of the world. We, as the UK, have always argued for the maintenance of that rules based order, but also on some of the alliances that uphold that rules based order. And for us, one of those alliances is the transatlantic one as well.

So that means we need both to maintain support for the rules based order and to maintain some of the crucial partnerships that have upheld that rules based order. The and we need to be able to do both.

19:56

Zarah Sultana MP (Coventry South, Your Party)

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Zarah Sultana Deputy speaker, two days ago, the United States carried out an illegal and carried out an illegal and unprovoked military attack on Venezuela, killing at least 40 people. During that attack, the Venezuelan president and his wife were abducted from their home and taken to the US on bogus drug related charges. This Labour government is now refusing to assess whether this is legal. So I ask the Secretary of State this if a foreign power accused the British Prime Minister of breaking its domestic law, bombed targets in the UK, killed dozens of British citizens and abducted the Prime Minister and his wife in the middle of the night.

Would the government be able to say that was legal, or is international law only something that applies when Donald Trump says it can? And in that case is the Prime Minister and this Labour government anything more than Donald Trump's poodle?

19:57

Rt Hon Yvette Cooper MP, Foreign Secretary, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Pontefract, Castleford and Knottingley, Labour)

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So I think the the hon. Member seems to be making an equivalence between the Maduro regime and the democratically elected UK Prime Minister. I just think that this equivalence thing is just really inappropriate, and we should recognise both the huge damage that the Maduro regime has done, and including the fact that it is under investigation by the International Criminal Court for crimes against humanity.

19:57

Mr Calvin Bailey MP (Leyton and Wanstead, Labour)

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Just to give an update on my previous. >> Announcement. This statement will now run its course because the backbench business debate has been Bailey. Maduro.

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Government had. No democratic. Democratic legitimacy.

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But returned to gunboat diplomacy and strongman led spheres of influence is not in our national of influence is not in our national interest. The rules based international order is not teetering, but it is collapsing. teetering, but it is collapsing. This is disastrous, but we cannot just bemoan it. We must respond to this threat by building up the this threat by building up the coherence of our own bloc, which is Europe. Does the Foreign Secretary agree that these developments demonstrate that the absolute priority must be not on Noises Off, but on deepening our connections, hard and soft with our own continent?

19:58

Rt Hon Yvette Cooper MP, Foreign Secretary, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Pontefract, Castleford and Knottingley, Labour)

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Well, I think we should strengthen our European partnerships. That's what we have been doing. We should also been doing. We should also strengthen our own investment in defence. Again, that is what we are defence. Again, that is what we are doing. But I also think that the transatlantic partnership remains important. It is what we will be discussing this week with the Americans. As part of discussing the security guarantees for Ukraine, those security guarantees that we have been discussing involving the US are also about the security of Europe, the security of Ukraine, security of the UK and ultimately the upholding of international law.

19:59

Monica Harding MP (Esher and Walton, Liberal Democrat)

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Monica Harding hey. Foreign Secretary agree that failing to call out your allies publicly when they violate publicly when they violate international law alongside one's enemies, which is easy, weakens adherence for international law fundamentally and therefore will she denounce in this chamber the US's illegal actions in Venezuela and the snatching of its president, however vile? And will she confirm that if it comes to a vote at the UN Security Council, that the UK will stand up for international law and will not abstain here? Well, the UK.

19:59

Rt Hon Yvette Cooper MP, Foreign Secretary, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Pontefract, Castleford and Knottingley, Labour)

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Continues to argue for international law to ensure that international law guides and frames international law guides and frames the decisions that we take as part of our foreign policy. And I have directly raised the issues of international law, particularly around Venezuela, with the US Secretary of State, and we continue to do so. Upholding international law also means upholding some of the alliances that sustain that international law, and that is what we will continue to do. Rachael Maskell Madam Deputy Speaker in order to hold.

20:00

Rachael Maskell MP (York Central, Labour )

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Up international law, it's >> Up international law, it's important that there's robust accountability on two fronts. Firstly, on how we use the Firstly, on how we use the intelligence that we have as a country ahead of actions being taken. I wonder if the Foreign Secretary can say how she used the UK intelligence before this operation, but also the accountability after an event, and how we will call the US president to account and the like that he is a sitting member of the UN Security Council.

20:00

Rt Hon Yvette Cooper MP, Foreign Secretary, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Pontefract, Castleford and Knottingley, Labour)

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Well, the UN Security Council >> Well, the UN Security Council has been discussing Venezuela today. That is what the UN Security Council would expect the UN Council would expect the UN Security Council to do on a significant issue. We have. Obviously, she will know a deep intelligence cooperation, security cooperation with Five Eyes countries on this particular operation. We were not involved and also not informed in advance, and nor were other countries.

20:01

Mike Martin MP (Tunbridge Wells, Liberal Democrat)

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Mike Martin. >> The US has abducted the leader of Venezuela, yet the government can't say whether it's legal or can't say whether it's legal or illegal. Let's try an easier one. Madam Deputy Speaker, if the US were to abduct the Premier of Greenland, would that be illegal or illegal?

20:01

Rt Hon Yvette Cooper MP, Foreign Secretary, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Pontefract, Castleford and Knottingley, Labour)

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Again, I would say to the hon. >> Again, I would say to the hon. Member, there's a continual sort of searching for equivalence when it is really inappropriate to do so. We have very made I've made very clear, our position on Greenland, the future of Greenland. Greenland is for Greenlanders and for the Danes, not for other countries. Be that the US or any other country around the world.

20:02

Tom Hayes MP (Bournemouth East, Labour)

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Tom Hayes. to this brutal regime. I hope now that Venezuela can move to a democracy with full control of its oil and resources. Following this breach of the UN charter, the Leader of the Opposition says that we live in, I quote her, in a fundamentally different world, in an increasingly dangerous world. After all, no UK Prime Minister previously previously has had to stand up so fulsomely for Greenland and Denmark security. So when the facts change, should our stance not change too? Should we not be working more closely with the European Union and EU member states to deepen our security and our economic ties? But do we not also need the European Union to be more flexible and pragmatic about what it constitutes as alignment with the UK?

20:02

Rt Hon Yvette Cooper MP, Foreign Secretary, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Pontefract, Castleford and Knottingley, Labour)

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We are strengthening our security cooperation with European allies. We had increasing security allies. We had increasing security partnerships discussions both with groups of other European countries, also with the EU as a whole and also with the NATO members in Europe too. So that has been crucial. It's a central part of the coalition of the willing, and I think that those partnerships need to continue to deepen.

20:03

Shockat Adam MP (Leicester South, Independent)

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Shockat Adam. >> Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. As the Minister justifies in her statement a flagrant breach of international law by citing that Venezuela's drop in GDP, narcotics trafficking and gold trading. I mean, these are issues that could affect countless countries around the world. But let me remind the Secretary of State, in the words of the person who perpetrated this action, Donald Donald J. Trump, of why he committed this action. The US is going to have a presence in Venezuela as it pertains to oil.

We are going to take out tremendous amount of wealth from the ground. We are going to run Venezuela. So can I ask the Foreign Secretary to take a leaf out of Donald Trump's book and answer a question once, does the government support US colonial expansionism, or does the government believe in the rules based world order? Which is it? It can't be both.

20:03

Rt Hon Yvette Cooper MP, Foreign Secretary, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Pontefract, Castleford and Knottingley, Labour)

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Yeah. >> Democracy for Venezuela. There are people of Venezuela have been denied that democracy for far too denied that democracy for far too long. We should support that democracy. We should support the international law and the rules based order, and make sure that a future government of Venezuela reflects the will of the people and respects the human rights of the Venezuelan people.

20:04

Markus Campbell-Savours MP (Penrith and Solway, Independent)

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Markus Campbell-Savours. >> Markus Campbell-Savours. >> Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. May I ask the Minister if she is reflected on the well documented reflected on the well documented difficulties that arise when the US assumes administrative control of occupied territory difficulties we saw all too clear during the Iraq conflict. And given these lessons, will the government press our American allies to ensure we see an early, credible election, one that enfranchises the estimated 7 million Venezuelans who emigrated during Maduro's time in office? Wouldn't this offer the most legitimate route back to democracy and spare the US the burden and risk inherent in attempting to administer another state? And doesn't this whole situation to displace autocracy, demonstrate a need to establish a new consensus that updates the principles that govern the intervention in failed states?

20:05

Rt Hon Yvette Cooper MP, Foreign Secretary, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Pontefract, Castleford and Knottingley, Labour)

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I think the hon. Member makes a sort of important, thoughtful point sort of important, thoughtful point about the way in which frameworks need to work. But he is right that this needs to be the transition to democracy at the earliest opportunity. The first stages in that are ensuring there is stability and then the release of the political prisoners, the return of political opposition members so that they can come back to Venezuela because you cannot fight a free and fair election whilst there is still political repression in place.

20:05

Christine Jardine MP (Edinburgh West, Liberal Democrat)

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Christine Jardine you very much, Madam Deputy Speaker, I have to say Madam Deputy Speaker, I have to say this is one of the most depressing days I've spent in this chamber in the past few years, because while I welcome the Foreign Secretary's commitment to democracy in Venezuela and to repeated commitment to the rules based international system and our alliances, I cannot I cannot bring that together with this government's abject failure to condemn the actions of Donald Trump in breaking international law and the concern that has created, reflected in statements by the leaders of Greenland, Denmark, Sweden, the Foreign Secretary herself at the Dispatch Box.

So how is the government going to reconcile that blatant contradiction?

20:06

Rt Hon Yvette Cooper MP, Foreign Secretary, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Pontefract, Castleford and Knottingley, Labour)

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Yeah. >> Well. >> I think set out already our clear position on Greenland, the importance of international law, but also the importance of working but also the importance of working through our different alliances and being prepared to raise issues, be it around international law or other issues, both privately and publicly as well. And what we need to do is to ensure we can pursue the UK interests and also our values. And we do that through the discussions that will be taking place this week on Ukraine.

And we do this through the pursuit of democracy and our values in Venezuela as well.

20:07

James Naish MP (Rushcliffe, Labour)

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James Naish you. Undersecretary of Defence for readiness in the US said that he is not aware of any, quote, any plans for how the next few days will for how the next few days will actually be managed by the US. So can I ask the Foreign Secretary what specific reassurances she has received from US counterparts that that isn't the case, that there is a plan in place and the work that we're doing with our international partners, particularly from NATO, to make sure that support is provided.

20:07

Rt Hon Yvette Cooper MP, Foreign Secretary, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Pontefract, Castleford and Knottingley, Labour)

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Foreign Secretary. >> Well, one. >> Of the. >> Reasons that I spoke to the US Secretary Rubio yesterday was in Secretary Rubio yesterday was in order to be able to engage on what the plans now should be going forward. I think there obviously, given the level of criminal gang operations in Venezuela, given the different factions that there have been in Venezuela, preventing greater instability right now, making sure we can get that stable basis and a plan for democracy is immensely important.

There is a very strong civil society, opposition groups and so on, but they need to be enabled and supported in order to make sure that we can get that peaceful, democratic transition. It will be crucially important.

20:08

Jim Allister KC MP (North Antrim, Traditional Unionist Voice)

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Jim Allister most members of >> Jim Allister most members of this House will agree with the government that there are no tears government that there are no tears to be shed over the removal of the brutal regime in Venezuela. My question for the Foreign Secretary is this does and if so high, does such a desirable income outcome impact on the government's view of what is permissible within international law?

20:09

Rt Hon Yvette Cooper MP, Foreign Secretary, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Pontefract, Castleford and Knottingley, Labour)

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As far as I can? had about how you respond to different kinds of hybrid threats and complex threats in different countries, and there are also different interpretations that can be made. It's also why we have said, look, it is for the US to set out its interpretation and its legal basis for any action that it takes, but we continue to promote the importance of the international law as it is set out and the UN charter, he will know there are other areas where we have argued for, for example, reforms to the interpretation of the OECD, for example, other areas of international law for other reasons, to modernise.

But we continue to stand up for the principles of the UN charter.

20:09

Paul Waugh MP (Rochdale, Labour )

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Paul Waugh Madam Deputy Speaker >> Paul Waugh Madam Deputy Speaker from state sponsored assassination attempts to illegal invasions. In recent years, we've seen an alarming rise in the number of alarming rise in the number of countries that are behaving like rogue states, including countries that are members of the permanent members of the Security Council. And I name Russia. Given what happened on British soil in Salisbury. But does she agree with me that actually the international rules based order and international law should be a fundamental principle and practice of the UK, and that that's something that we expect other countries to uphold in all circumstances.

Yeah.

20:10

Rt Hon Yvette Cooper MP, Foreign Secretary, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Pontefract, Castleford and Knottingley, Labour)

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I do. Completely agree. >> With. My hon. Friend, and sometimes it can feel right now as if the rules based order is under if the rules based order is under particular threat and challenge. And that was a point I raised before Christmas and Locarno speech. I would say that I think it probably has been under challenge before, and it has endured, partly because countries like the UK have continued to advocate for it, and we must continue to do so.

20:10

Calum Miller MP (Bicester and Woodstock, Liberal Democrat)

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Calum Miller thank you, Mr. Speaker. The people of Greenland are concerned today, and I welcome the Foreign Secretary's statement earlier that the UK bases that are used by the US Air Force will not be used for any attack on Greenland. Could you please confirm that she will make that clear to Secretary of State Rubio the next time they speak? Yeah.

20:11

Rt Hon Yvette Cooper MP, Foreign Secretary, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Pontefract, Castleford and Knottingley, Labour)

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Let's be really clear that we >> Let's be really clear that we are all members of NATO, the UK, Denmark, the US. That is why it is so important that we continue to ensure the the sovereignty, the of the of Greenland and of Denmark and why we have made our views on that particularly clear to the US.

20:11

Patricia Ferguson MP (Glasgow West, Labour)

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Patricia Ferguson. Secretary's statement this afternoon. And I would agree with her that Maduro was a corrupt dictator who frankly cared nothing for the lives of his own people. And I welcome the Foreign Secretary's comments about the importance of upholding international law. So does the Foreign Secretary agree with me that if we believe in a world order with clear rules about sovereignty, we cannot pick and choose when those rules do and do not apply? Otherwise, what is to stop others with further bad intentions from taking advantage of that situation and of following suit? Yeah.

20:12

Rt Hon Yvette Cooper MP, Foreign Secretary, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Pontefract, Castleford and Knottingley, Labour)

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Well, again, let me say we continue to support the international law and to promote it both publicly and privately with our allies, and also to pursue the alliances and to to sustain the alliances which are important as underpinning parts of the rules based order. That does include our NATO alliance, includes our transatlantic alliance, and we maintain those long standing partnerships as well as part of upholding international law.

20:12

Danny Kruger MP (East Wiltshire, Reform UK)

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Tony Kruger. Speaker. The Biden administration offered a $25 million reward for the capture and detention of President Maduro, and this country has passively supported regime change in Venezuela since we froze the gold reserves held at the Bank of England in 2019. So now that President Trump has followed through on the implicit policy of both our countries and achieved the outcome that the whole world wanted, can the Foreign Secretary tell the House what conditions will need to be met for the money that is owned by the Venezuelan people, to be returned by the Bank of England?

20:13

Rt Hon Yvette Cooper MP, Foreign Secretary, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Pontefract, Castleford and Knottingley, Labour)

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Well, he will know. As he >> Well, he will know. As he rightly points out, successive governments have not recognised the governments have not recognised the Venezuelan regime. That is the basis on which the independent Bank of England took its decision. We continue not to recognise the Venezuelan regime because it is important that we have the pressure in place to have a transition to a democracy, which is also about the will of the Venezuelan people. So obviously there are independent decisions for the Bank of England to take, but our principles are about maintaining and pursuing the stability and the transition to democracy.

And that is that is what is guiding our approach to recognition.

20:14

Dr Scott Arthur MP (Edinburgh South West, Labour)

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Gloucester Scott Arthur. >> Thank you, Madam Speaker. And I do thank the Foreign Secretary for her statement. She's been getting lots of advice and response, but I lots of advice and response, but I do not think any of us really envy her position. And I thank her as well for talking to the Leader of the Opposition, Maria Corina machado. I think it is absolutely the right thing to do. She did outline how she spoke into security Rubio about a transition to democracy.

So I guess the question is, is there any kind of timeline associated with that and UN recognition of a Venezuelan government? Will that only happen once it has a democratic government actually elected?

20:14

Rt Hon Yvette Cooper MP, Foreign Secretary, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Pontefract, Castleford and Knottingley, Labour)

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So we don't have a timeline for >> So we don't have a timeline for this currently. And what the the opposition, the Venezuelan opposition have said is the first step has to be an end to political repression, the release of political prisoners and also the return, the safe return to Venezuela of opposition politicians. Because without that you cannot have free and fair elections. So that is the first step we are pressing for is an end to the political repression.

And that is what we are urging the transition. Vice president, now acting president, to do. Doctor Al Pinkerton.

20:15

Dr Al Pinkerton MP (Surrey Heath, Liberal Democrat)

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Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. There's an old warning from Benjamin Franklin. If you do not Benjamin Franklin. If you do not hang together, you will hang separately. Given the events in recent days in Venezuela, given the active threats against Cuba and Mexico and in the past, Canada and today, Greenland. Can I ask the Foreign Secretary, where is the line? What is the Rubicon now for the United Kingdom? That would the crossing of which that would force us to recognise that our silence today will only lead to greater challenge tomorrow? And is it not time that we hang together with our values based allies to stand up against Trump's colonial possession, taking in Central America, whether or not it's in the Western Hemisphere or elsewhere here?

20:16

Rt Hon Yvette Cooper MP, Foreign Secretary, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Pontefract, Castleford and Knottingley, Labour)

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Well, I think the again, the the equivalents across different equivalents across different countries is the wrong approach to take. I think that also does not recognise the the scale of damage done by the Maduro regime, and also that what we need to do in order to promote international law is also to promote some of the partnerships that underpin it. It's why we need to work closely, not just with the coalition of the willing that is meeting tomorrow to discuss Ukraine, but also to ensure that there are US security guarantees, which is an important part of our security alliance with the US, and also that on Greenland, we and other European countries have made our position clear.

20:17

Iqbal Mohamed MP (Dewsbury and Batley, Independent)

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Iqbal Mohamed. >> Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. The unstoppable machine of American imperialist invasions has killed imperialist invasions has killed millions in Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya and Syria from aiding and arming and abetting a genocide in Palestine to now the invasion and abduction of a leader in Venezuela for oil, minerals, gold and to protect the petrodollar. This has nothing to do with democracy or narco terrorism, with ongoing threats to Greenland, Cuba, Colombia and Mexico, the list of gangster aggression continues.

Unopposed. Has the global rule based order now collapsed, or did it ever even exist for Western warmongering powers? Yes.

20:17

Rt Hon Yvette Cooper MP, Foreign Secretary, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Pontefract, Castleford and Knottingley, Labour)

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Well. >> Well. >> I just strongly disagree with the hon. Member's characterisation. We have a strong security partnership with the US and with other countries, not just through NATO, but also a direct security partnership. And the US is our strongest security ally. But that alliance is also based on values and based on principles as well. We build that relationship or we strengthen. We continue to sustain that relationship as part of our support for and continued respect for international law.

Martin Wrigley.

20:18

Martin Wrigley MP (Newton Abbot, Liberal Democrat)

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Madam Deputy Speaker, what message does the Foreign Secretary message does the Foreign Secretary think that this weekend's outbreak of unilateral acts of violent of unilateral acts of violent kidnap and taking assets outside of international law sends to Vladimir Putin, in particular, with reference to Russia's view of the need to seriously negotiate peace with Ukraine. Will the Foreign Secretary confer with her Ukrainian counterparts about giving our Ukrainian guests the option for a right right to settle in the UK? And will the Minister meet with me and Ukrainian guests to discuss options moving forward?

20:19

Rt Hon Yvette Cooper MP, Foreign Secretary, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Pontefract, Castleford and Knottingley, Labour)

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Well, I just think fundamentally >> Well, I just think fundamentally it is wrong to make any kind of equivalence between what is happening in Venezuela and what is happening in Venezuela and what is happening in Ukraine. It's these fundamentally different, and the US is playing a hugely important role in pursuing a peace process for Ukraine, and also in the discussions around security guarantees, which, again, is immensely important. He raises the issue of Ukrainians living in the UK, as he will may know.

We have a Ukrainian family continuing to live with us. And I take this issue extremely importantly. He will also recognise, however, this is now a matter for the Home Secretary and not for me as a Foreign Secretary.

20:19

Rt Hon Sammy Wilson MP (East Antrim, Democratic Unionist Party)

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Sammy Wilson I'm Mr Speaker. any tears at the end of Maduros rule. Will it surprise her that Sinn FÃ©in, first of all, defended the fraudulent election as being electorally robust and then attended the inauguration event for the president in order to show what they said. Solidarity with him, highlighting once again how they're still wedded to criminality and to terrorism. But the there's an opportunity now that the Americans have done good for the Venezuelan people by removing the corrupt cancer which so damaged their country.

Can she outline what steps can our country take to ensure that democracy is restored in Venezuela? And from her discussions with the Americans, how much will they cooperate with us in that venture?

20:20

Rt Hon Yvette Cooper MP, Foreign Secretary, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Pontefract, Castleford and Knottingley, Labour)

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I think no one should be defending the Maduro regime. I've defending the Maduro regime. I've talked specifically to the US Secretary of State about the transition to democracy. The US have said that this is important, but we need to make sure that those conditions are in place, starting with the ending of political repression. Speaker.

20:21

Cameron Thomas MP (Tewkesbury, Liberal Democrat)

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President Maduro was incursion. >> Illegal incursion into Venezuela, puts him in the company of Vladimir Putin and will embolden President Xi's ambitions for Taiwan. More pressing for the UK is that a repeatedly threatened occupation of Greenland would see Putin's ambition for Natos disintegration come to pass, given that there are numerous US assets in the UK. What discussions has the government had with our European counterparts, including the Danes, to prepare European security against the threat now posed and explicitly stated by the president of the United States? Yeah.

20:21

Rt Hon Yvette Cooper MP, Foreign Secretary, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Pontefract, Castleford and Knottingley, Labour)

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Yeah. I really just have to say to the hon. Member trying to make equivalence between the US and equivalence between the US and Russia is is just ridiculous. It's totally ridiculous and deeply, deeply inappropriate. A country that where we have seen the Russian invasion of Ukraine and also the huge the kidnapping of Ukrainian children, and in contrast, our relationship with the US in which they are discussing now security guarantees for Ukraine. I think that's hugely important.

20:22

Ayoub Khan MP (Birmingham Perry Barr, Independent)

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Ayoub Khan thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. Deputy Speaker. >> Absent international. >> Rule based order. >> Leads to chaos and. >> We all know.

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That within chaos there is order. And sadly, that order is where the strongest survive and the most strongest survive and the most vulnerable and weak die. Neither just nor morally right. So I ask the Foreign Secretary, how can we be both champions and advocates for international rules based order, yet wholly equivocal when it comes to calling out this flagrant breach of international law?

20:22

Rt Hon Yvette Cooper MP, Foreign Secretary, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Pontefract, Castleford and Knottingley, Labour)

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Hear, hear! >> We have set out our continued commitment to national law and also the importance of maintaining some of the underpinning alliances, of the underpinning alliances, rules based alliances that are so important for sustaining the rules based order. It's why we will continue to argue for international law, and also to continue to maintain things like the NATO alliance and the partnership, and why we will continue to raise these issues, both publicly and privately, with our allies.

20:23

Daisy Cooper MP (St Albans, Liberal Democrat)

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Daisy Cooper you, Madam Deputy >> Daisy Cooper you, Madam Deputy Speaker, the President Trump's actions are not about drugs. They are about oil. They are not about regional stability. They about regional dominance. And they are not about upholding the law. They are about breaking it. The Foreign Secretary has said that the government has been clear that she has not been clear on any of those three points. The world has changed this weekend and it will change again very quickly.

So can the Foreign Secretary say whether there is a single strategic decision or practical step that this government has taken in the last 72 hours to shore up our national security or that of our allies, especially Denmark?

20:24

Rt Hon Yvette Cooper MP, Foreign Secretary, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Pontefract, Castleford and Knottingley, Labour)

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Well, we've got discussions going on on the coalition of the willing, the preparations for them willing, the preparations for them as we speak, the discussions being taken tomorrow. Those are all about taken tomorrow. Those are all about strengthening our national security as part of strengthening Ukraine's national security.

20:24

Mr Adnan Hussain MP (Blackburn, Independent)

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Adnan Hussain thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. >> The Foreign Secretary repeatedly emphasises the government's commitment to international law. I, as I'm sure with many of my colleagues across the House, remain confused as to the Foreign Secretary's position in respect of President Trump's actions in Venezuela, whether they were in line with international law, and whether she believes breaching a nation's sovereignty is indeed a breach of international law and order. It could simply be a yes or a no.

Yes.

20:24

Rt Hon Yvette Cooper MP, Foreign Secretary, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Pontefract, Castleford and Knottingley, Labour)

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Well, as I have said, we won't >> Well, as I have said, we won't shed a tear for Maduro and for his deeply damaging regime. It is for the US to set out the legal basis the US to set out the legal basis of their actions, which we were not involved in. We will promote now the democratic transition, which is something we have continually argued for as part of the policies that we have set out over many years on Venezuela. And we will continue to stand up for international law.

Speaker.

20:25

Josh Babarinde MP (Eastbourne, Liberal Democrat)

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Throughout this. have taken comfort in the UK, not having been involved in the US's illegal attack in Venezuela. But the Foreign Secretary cannot escape the reality that for as long as this government fails to call out Trump for his actions, this government is complicit in his demolition of the international rules based order. So when will the government put its head above the parapet? In the spirit of the likes of Charles Kennedy back in 2003, and condemn the US president's attempts to turn our world into his Wild West?

20:26

Rt Hon Yvette Cooper MP, Foreign Secretary, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Pontefract, Castleford and Knottingley, Labour)

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Well, again, I would say to the >> Well, again, I would say to the hon. Member that he shouldn't make false equivalence in different situations, and that would be inappropriate to do so. We will continue to work with the US in the discussions this week on the defence of Ukraine, which is in itself about maintaining international law and the rules based order, just as we will also continue to raise issues around international law in our private discussions with them and in public debates as well.

20:26

Chris Coghlan MP (Dorking and Horley, Liberal Democrat)

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Chris Coghlan speaker. >> The departure of Maduro, but many of us are alarmed by the breach of international law. But I am most alarmed by Trump's am most alarmed by Trump's concurrent threat to Greenland and his previous threat to Canada. The foreign Secretary says that she likes to deal with the world as it is. So precisely how many NATO allies does Donald Trump have to threaten? Until the government recognises that Donald Trump is a clear threat to the survival of century?

20:27

Rt Hon Yvette Cooper MP, Foreign Secretary, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Pontefract, Castleford and Knottingley, Labour)

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Hear, hear. >> Hear, hear. >> We are working with the US administration on support for administration on support for Ukraine, which is about support for a democratic sovereign state that has been threatened by and invaded by an authoritarian Russian regime. And it is the US that is pursuing peace that is also discussing security guarantees for Ukraine. So I really do think his characterisation of the the world we are in is just wrong. Speaker.

20:27

James MacCleary MP (Lewes, Liberal Democrat)

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There has. days and hours, in fact, about a possible US operation to seize tanker which previously operated in Venezuela, which the United States has been pursuing is now off the Irish coast. Any such operation would very likely involve UK air bases. What steps is the government taking to ensure that any deployments of US forces from UK bases, whether in relation to this tanker or other targets it may define in Europe, are in full compliance with international law.

20:28

Rt Hon Yvette Cooper MP, Foreign Secretary, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Pontefract, Castleford and Knottingley, Labour)

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So we always ensure that any action that the UK takes is in He will know that we don't that those are issues for the. The Ministry of Defence also takes immensely seriously issues around international law as well, and it is for them to comment on the way in which international law is applied.

20:28

Ian Sollom MP (St Neots and Mid Cambridgeshire, Liberal Democrat)

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And solemn. >> Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. Over the weekend, Donald Trump invoked the Monroe Doctrine from her statement, the Foreign her statement, the Foreign Secretary seems to accept that the UN charter is secondary to great power. Spheres of influence in some cases. So what criteria does she use to decide when the charter is trumped by 19th century thinking? And she's talked a lot about alliances today, the great game of alliances in the 19th century ended very, very badly.

20:29

Rt Hon Yvette Cooper MP, Foreign Secretary, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Pontefract, Castleford and Knottingley, Labour)

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Yeah. >> Why the alliances that we. >> Stand up for today are ones that

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Stand up for today are ones that are based on our values and long standing rules and relationships. That is what the NATO alliance is. That is what the NATO alliance is. It is based on our values and is immensely important. I'm not sure if he is saying he disagrees with the NATO alliance. That's been a cornerstone of our security for a very long time.

20:29

John Milne MP (Horsham, Liberal Democrat)

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John Milne thank you. government has bent over backwards not to criticise President Trump directly, but that only makes him think he can get away with more and more. If President Trump really does invade Greenland, it's the end of NATO, the end of the special relationship. So will the Foreign Secretary accept that the best way for us to protect Greenland today is to explicitly say that President Trump is indeed acting outside international law?

20:30

Jim Shannon MP (Strangford, Democratic Unionist Party)

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Yeah. equivalents and a whole series of different situations. We have been very clear about our view on Greenland. >> The final question.

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On this statement, Jim Shannon. Thank you. Madam Deputy Speaker. I definitely have the strongest legs in this chamber. I've been bubbling in this chamber. I've been bubbling for over three hours. Can I thank the Secretary very much for for her statement and for her strong commitment as well? But will the Secretary further outline what support we can offer our US allies to ensure that democracy is restored, or indeed is created in Venezuela? That nation has great potential to do so much good? And further, what support can our UK government offer to secure the daily needs of so many young people who have been ignored for many, many years and left in poverty for far, far too long? Thank you.

20:31

Rt Hon Yvette Cooper MP, Foreign Secretary, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Pontefract, Castleford and Knottingley, Labour)

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I think he's right about the future of Venezuela and the future for these Venezuelan people, for these Venezuelan people, including young people in Venezuela, who have been pushed into hardship, into poverty by the corruption of the regime and by the criminality of the regime. There is an opportunity now, but it is fragile. It is very fragile, and we have to ensure that we can support stability in Venezuela and this transition to democracy, which is so crucial. Those are the points we will continue to make as part of our discussions with the US.

And also, that is the work that our embassy on the ground will continue

**** Possible New Speaker ****

to do. And that concludes the statement on Venezuela. I'd like to thank the Foreign Secretary, who's taken over 90 questions and who's been on her feet for 2.25 hours. Thank you. We feet for 2.25 hours. Thank you. We now move on to the next statement, which is the Middle East and North Africa. And if I can give the Africa. And if I can give the frontbenches just a few moments to Household.

20:32

Mr Hamish Falconer MP, Parliamentary Under-Secretary (Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office) (Lincoln, Labour)

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Including Gaza, Iran, Yemen and Syria. I would also like to take the opportunity to provide an update on the case of Al El-Fattah, which has been a subject of debate during the parliamentary recess, beginning with Gaza. The humanitarian situation remains desperate, even with the ceasefire. Half a million people are struggling to find enough food. 100,000 people are in catastrophic conditions. The police plan was clear. The Israeli government agreed to let aid in without interference through the UN and other international organisations.

At the same time, Hamas must disarm, their weapons, must be decommissioned, and they must allow a path to lasting security for Palestinians. More trucks are entering Gaza and this is very welcome. But right now, key crossings remain closed, convoys are being turned back, medical and shelter supplies are blocked, and NGOs are being banned. We join nine other countries in stating that this is not acceptable. Over the recess, the peace plan cannot work if NGOs are shut out. Israel's decision to ban 37 of them is unjustifiable.

Furthermore, many trucks entering Gaza carry commercial goods which face fewer barriers than humanitarian aid. This means, perversely, it is currently easier to get cigarettes and luxury goods into Gaza than the basic medicines and shelter that people so desperately need. Too much aid is still stuck at Gaza's borders. Thousands of tents and shelter supplies funded by the UK are waiting to get in. Families are sheltering from winter floods and storms under rubble. They are suffering from hypothermia and sewage running in the streets.

This is unforgivable. We have not wavered in our commitment to help this financial year. We are providing £116 million for humanitarian and other aid, healthcare, food, clean water and sanitation, including treatment for 800,000 800,000 Palestinians through UK med. The UK formally recognised Palestine last autumn to protect the viability of a two state solution and create a path towards lasting peace for the Israeli and Palestinian people. We welcome the establishment of full diplomatic relations with the State of Palestine, and I can confirm the establishment of a Palestinian embassy in London today.

Let me now turn to Iran, where we've seen protests enter a ninth day. Following the rapid depreciation of the currency, we are disturbed by reports of violence against those who are courageously exercising their right to peaceful protest. We are monitoring developments closely, and we urge Iran to protect fundamental freedoms, including access to information and communications. The UK was integral to the delivery of the Iran Human Rights Resolution, adopted by the UN Third Committee in November. It called on Iran to halt its human rights violations, including in relation to women and girls, ethnic and religious minorities, and of course, to stop the use of the death penalty.

We will continue to work with partners to hold Iran to account for its rights record. I know that many in this House will also be thinking about Craig and Lindsay Forman, who spent Christmas in detention in Iran. We are deeply concerned that they have been charged with espionage. We are focussed on supporting them and their family, and we remain in regular contact with the Iranian authorities. The Foreign Secretary raised their case with the Iranian foreign Minister on the 19th of December.

I also wish to provide the House an update on another consular case that has been in the spotlight for many years, Alaa El-Fattah, supporting British nationals overseas is at the heart of the work of the Foreign Office, and the provision of consular support is based on the circumstances of the case. Following Mr. El-fattahs registration as a British citizen in 2021, successive governments gave him consular support and made it a priority to argue for his release. That is why it was welcomed by Ministers across the government and many others in this House when he was released from detention in September and reunited with his family in the UK on Boxing Day.

However, we recognise and share the deep concern felt across the country following the subsequent emergence of extremely disturbing historical social media posts by Mr. El-Fattah. Let me emphasise once again that the historical posts were abhorrent, and I join my colleagues in condemning them wholeheartedly. It is right that Mr. El-Fattah has apologised. I fully recognise the profound distress these posts have caused, in particular to the Jewish community in this country, especially in the context of rising anti-Semitism and recent horrific attacks against Jewish people both in this country and around the world.

And I very much regret that the Prime Minister, the deputy Prime Minister, the Foreign Secretary and I were all unaware of those historical posts, as were the civil servants working on the case. The Foreign Secretary has therefore asked the permanent Under-Secretary to urgently review the department's systems for conducting due diligence on high profile consular and human rights cases to ensure that all necessary lessons are learned. The Foreign Secretary has undertaken to update the Foreign Affairs Select Committee on the changes that the Department will put in place.

I turn now to the dramatic developments in Yemen, which we are monitoring closely. I welcome calls by the Yemen, Yemen's president for dialogue in the south. I welcome to Saudi Arabia's offer to host a conference and the United Arab Emirates call for de-escalation. A swift diplomatic resolution will best serve the Yemeni people. We remain committed to supporting Yemen's unity, including the Yemeni Presidential Leadership Council and the government of Yemen. As we set out in the recent UK led UN Security Council statement.

I, the Foreign Secretary and the National Security adviser have all been in regular contact with our partners in Yemen, the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates about the situation. We will continue to work closely with them. We must not forget that Yemen already faces one of the world's worst humanitarian crises. 18.1 million people are facing acute food insecurity. I saw it for myself in November when I visited clinics supported by the UK in Aden. Responding to this crisis is a priority for the UK, with the largest donor to Yemen humanitarian needs and Response Plan.

Maintaining our commitment to £139 million in humanitarian aid this financial year. Finally, Madam Deputy Speaker, let me turn to Syria, where the past year has seen remarkable change. The Syrian government has shown commitment to tackling security threats, joining the global coalition against Daesh and committing to dismantle Assad's chemical weapons stockpiles. In my engagements with the Syrian government, I have heard directly a commitment to build a Syria for all Syrians. But despite this progress, the challenges remain immense. There have been outbreaks of sectarian violence in the last year, most recently in Latakia at the end of December.

The recent attack on US soldiers in Palmyra is a reminder of the enduring Daesh threat. A stable Syria is firmly in the UK's interest, reducing the risk of irregular migration, terrorism and other threats to our national security. That is why we have stepped up our engagement and support to Syria over the last year. The UK remains an active partner in the global coalition against Daesh. And on the 3rd of January, the RAF conducted a joint strike with France on an underground Daesh facility north of Palmyra.

The UK will continue to do what is necessary to prevent a Daesh resurgence and support Syria's stability and protect UK national security. Madam Deputy Speaker, I hope this update on developments in the Middle East over recess is helpful to the House. His Majesty's Government remains committed to playing its full role in the Middle East.

20:41

Rt Hon Priti Patel MP (Witham, Conservative)

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Foreign Secretary James Priti Patel. Patel. >> Mr. speaker, Britain's place in the world matters and this side of the House is clear that our influence should be used to its fullest to support efforts to combat the complex and dangerous conflicts and tensions that we speak too often about when it comes to the Middle East. In this House, from Israel to Gaza, Iran, Syria and Yemen. The UK can and should be able to make a difference on Iran. On these benches, we stand with the brave Iranians in their fight for freedom against a terrorist supporting despotic and oppressive government.

Their fight for freedom must prevail. So can I ask the Minister what discussions are taking place with our partners in the region over the actions that can be taken to stop the regime's cruel and barbaric acts against those campaigning for freedom? Iran threatens our own domestic security by continuing with its nuclear weapons programme, providing weapons and drones to Russia, its backing of China and repression in Hong Kong. Britain must send them a clear signal by imposing more sanctions on them, taking action to stop the sanctions busting that takes place through cryptocurrencies and other methods that facilitate and bankroll this tyrannical regime.

Can I ask why the government and its Ministers, in his statement today, have been silent specifically on those issues? And where is the plan now to keep Britain safe from Iran? And what is being done to secure the immediate release from Iran's cruel captivity of Lindsay and Craig Forman, the two British nationals who, tragically, are still in captivity. I appreciate that he refers to the call that took place on the 19th of December, but what practical measures are being done on Gaza? Hamas continues to breach the ceasefire in Gaza.

They have refused to release the body of the remaining Israeli hostage, which has been in terrorist captivity for over 820 days. Can I ask the Minister what pressure is being put on Hamas to adhere to the terms of the ceasefire, to disarm and bring ran back to his family? Will he also confirm? And he's mentioned this on aid, that 4200 trucks are being delivered in aid to Gaza each week in accordance with the 20 point peace plan, and that is being overseen by CogAT and the Cmcc.

Is he meeting with CMC and CogAT to see the operational delivery of this aid, and the role that the United States is playing, playing, playing in securing this aid delivery and on the licensing of NGOs? Can the Minister confirm that the number of agencies that have been through the licensing program, how many have been and what contribution are they now making? We know and we understand, and we've heard so much in recent weeks and months about terrorists infiltrating aid agencies and diverting aid.

So what discussions has he had with Ministers within the Israeli government as well, and his counterparts to work with them to find practical solutions that address the serious concerns that have been raised so that more aid can get through and is not compromised to terrorists. On reforms to the Palestinian Authority. Why is the government still backing them with taxpayers money while they continue with the pay to slay program? And when will this practice stop turning to Yemen? I agree with the Minister's comments made about Yemen and the conflict and the humanitarian suffering.

Every single successive government has worked tirelessly to secure more aid and to support our global efforts when it comes to the suffering in Yemen. But what discussions has the Minister had with the UAE and Saudi Arabia, who are both long standing partners and players, particularly over the recent dispute and tensions that have taken place? And is there a bridging role that Britain can play here? And what planning is underway with our partners in the region to respond to further threats from the Houthis? And on Syria, the targeted actions on Daesh were absolutely essential.

But there are still many concerns about the stability when it comes to Syria. When will progress be made when it comes to tackling the sectarian violence, protecting minority rights, delivering the democratic transition? What quantitative chemical weapons has been disposed of? What measures are being taken to stop the criminality, the gangs and drugs and the weapons? And finally, Madam Deputy Speaker on the El-Fattah case, I welcome the way in which the FCDO in particular has now instigated this inquiry. Can I ask when this inquiry will be completed? In terms of what has happened? Was the government informed by any other government departments in terms of the views that were expressed? And I recognise what the Minister said thus far.

And will the Ministers in particular, probably now in the Home Office, pick this case up and work fast to strip him of his citizenship? As this side of the House has been requesting over the recent recess period.

20:46

Mr Hamish Falconer MP, Parliamentary Under-Secretary (Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office) (Lincoln, Labour)

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Yes. confirm that I have been in touch with my counterparts in both the UAE and Saudi Arabia and indeed spoke to the Yemeni foreign Minister this morning. We are in intensive discussions with all of our partners in the region on the questions in Yemen, which are very significant. We I did not speak about the Houthis, but they remain a very significant threat. And I saw some of that threat during my visit to Yemen in November. In relation to Syria, I thank her for her spirit of cross-party cooperation on the strikes that we conducted.

There remain very significant questions which are outstanding about the security of Syria, which I'm sure she and other members of the House will have been tracking. The violence in the end of December is indeed concerning. There has been progress on a range of questions. We need to see the independent reviews that were conducted into the violence, both in the coastal areas and in the South, followed through, including accountability measures. And I have made those points, as has the Foreign Secretary, directly to our Syrian counterparts.

She asked the important questions about chemical weapons. I'm very pleased that there is now an OPCW program engaged to ensure the destruction of chemical weapons that will be of real interest to this House, given the extent to which chemical weapons in Syria have been discussed here even before the time I was elected. And that is welcome progress and important for regional security on Iran. She is right to highlight the bravery of the protesters. She will have seen, I'm sure, also the spokes our spokesperson statement over the course of the last few days and indeed the remarks I have just made.

We are speaking, of course, to our partners in the region. We are careful in the way we discuss matters in Iran. It is absolutely obvious that some in the leadership of Iran wish to portray these protests as being externally animated. Of course they are not. This is a response from the Iranian people themselves. In relation to Abdul, Mr. El-Fattah and the next steps, he was, as she knows well, provided citizenship by the previous government. That is not something that is stripped lightly.

She. We've seen the remarks of the Home Secretary during Home Office all questions earlier during the day. In terms of the timeline of the review, we intend it to be swift. We want to draw a line under this matter as quickly as we can and ensure that in all other cases, appropriate lessons are being learned in relation to aid. I would in sorry aid in Gaza. I'd like to be clear, Madam Deputy Speaker, we are talking here about charities like Oxfam and Save the Children, credible charities supported by the British public who have donated generously over the course of Christmas.

There has, of course, been concerns at in relation to aid in Gaza. We have ensured wherever they have been raised, they have been investigated. But we should not let that take away from the credibility of the organisations involved. It is vital that those aid agencies are able to work. 30% of Gazans cannot afford basic food. She is right to say that there has been an increase in the aid going into Gaza, but it is not yet in line with the 20 point plan.

Still, UN truck shipments are going in in less numbers than was agreed. I think the number is of 250 aid trucks from the UN going in a day. Only 147 are going in. It is welcome that commercial goods are getting into Gaza. But as I said in my statement, it is vital that it is the life saving humanitarian aid, in particular tents and medicines that get in Patricia Ferguson.

20:50

Patricia Ferguson MP (Glasgow West, Labour)

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Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker, >> Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker, and I thank my hon. Friend for his statement this afternoon. And I statement this afternoon. And I entirely agree with him that at a time when the humanitarian crisis in Gaza remains so desperately urgent that the decision by the Israeli government to withdraw accreditation from 37 aid agencies, 37 extremely credible aid agencies such as Caritas, Internationalis, ActionAid and the International Rescue Committee is an act of cruelty.

And will the Minister therefore join with me in condemning this decision and urge Israel in the strongest possible terms, to rescind it immediately before more deaths are occurring in Gaza and the West Bank because of the lack of humanitarian aid that we need. And will he also urge them to open up the Rafah crossing as a matter of extreme urgency? Mr.

20:51

Mr Hamish Falconer MP, Parliamentary Under-Secretary (Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office) (Lincoln, Labour)

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I thank my hon. Friend for the >> I thank my hon. Friend for the question. We have engaged extensively on with the Israeli government, both on the importance of overturning both against the NGO registration provisions when they were announced against the deregistration process that she describes. And we have also called repeatedly for the opening of the Rafah crossing, as well as other vital crossings.

20:51

Calum Miller MP (Bicester and Woodstock, Liberal Democrat)

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Calum Miller Lib Dem spokesperson. advance sight of his statement. I regret the government is presenting developments and for significant states in one statement, but I will do my best to respond in the time afforded to me. While the attention of the world is seized by the illegal actions of the US president, it is crucial that the UK works closely with our allies to support just lawful and humanitarian action in the Middle East. After two years of widespread destruction, people in Gaza are already facing severe shortages of food, clean water and medical supplies in the midst of winter.

What immediate action is the government taking to persuade Israel to reverse its decision to bar reputable international aid agencies from Gaza and the West Bank? The continued expansion of settlements and Palestinian land by Netanyahu's extremist Cabinet since the House last met is explicitly intended to undermine any prospect of a two state solution. So will the government implement immediate sanctions on members of the Israeli Cabinet, a full ban on the import of settlement goods, and finally publish its response to the 2024 ICJ ruling that Israel's occupation is illegal under international law.

Liberal Democrats condemn the violent repression of public demonstrations in Iran. The casual threats from the US president to take unilateral military action merely served to escalate tensions. So how is our government working with European and regional partners to coordinate lawful external pressure on Iran? And when will the government commit to prescribing the Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps? Under UK law, the people of Yemen desperately needs peace. Yet regional powers continue to intervene to support the armed factions. So will the government review all arms export licences to Saudi Arabia and UAE to ensure that UK weapons are not enabling them to sustain the conflict.

The UN estimates that around 24 million Yemenis desperately need food and protection. How is the UK ensuring that humanitarian aid reaches those most in need, particularly in areas where access is restricted or contested? The Liberal Democrats support limited multilateral strikes against Daesh in Syria to ensure the eradication of their infrastructure, and to counter their dangerous and violent ideology in the Middle East. Can the Minister confirm that the government is confident that these recent strikes were fully compliant with international law and proportionate to the threat? And what steps is the government taking to ensure the new Syrian government is protecting the rights of all, including minorities and women?

20:54

Mr Hamish Falconer MP, Parliamentary Under-Secretary (Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office) (Lincoln, Labour)

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Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. And thank the Liberal Democrat spokesperson for the spirit of the spokesperson for the spirit of the question to address why I put so many developments into the statements. There were so many developments that I wish to update the House at the earliest opportunity, and provides colleagues an opportunity to ask questions on any element of it. We will continue to voice our position in relation to the absolute, vital importance of the right to assembly in Iran, and indeed our right to communications as well, and we will continue to do that alongside our partners and indeed in our own voice as well.

I am confident and can assure the House that the strikes on Iran were consistent and compliant with international law. We, as I said to the shadow Foreign Secretary, we continue to raise the importance of accountability in relation to violence in Syria with the Syrian government in relation to developments in Yemen, in particularly on questions of aid. There is, I'm afraid, a very significant divergence between the ability of the UK to deliver aid in the areas controlled by the Houthis and the areas not controlled by the Houthis.

The Houthis have continued to seize aid workers and indeed aid premises. It is simply not possible, under these circumstances to have an aid operation which operates at the scale of the needs of the Yemeni people. I call again on the Houthis, as I have repeatedly to release all those they've detained, to leave those offices and to abide by humanitarian principles. If they do not, it is simply not possible for the UK, or indeed any other humanitarian actor, to ensure that the Yemenis get the support that they require in relation to arms sales.

We, as I know, the Liberal Democrat spokesperson as well, has we have the most robust arrangements in the world and I'm confident that they have been followed in this case. But of course, we keep these matters as ever under close review.

20:56

Rt Hon John McDonnell MP (Hayes and Harlington, Labour)

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John McDonnell I was one of those MPs who campaigned hard for those MPs who campaigned hard for the release of Abdel Fattah. So can I say to the Minister, it's important that when the considerations are taking place about the overall process around that, there is an accurate narrative and the narrative partly, is this a yes? There were vile social media interventions by this person, which we all condemn, but which he apologised for. But more than that, he became a campaigner in his own country for civil rights in Egypt because he's a decent citizen for civil liberties, civil rights, religious freedom, campaigned against anti-Semitism and for that has served ten years in prison.

Not many in this chamber has gone anywhere near that record of campaigning for these civil liberties. So maybe that narrative could be taken into account when consideration is taken about this individual.

20:57

Mr Hamish Falconer MP, Parliamentary Under-Secretary (Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office) (Lincoln, Labour)

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Mr. >> Mr. >> Madam, I thank the right hon. Gentleman for his question. And, Gentleman for his question. And, Madam Deputy Speaker, I do not do not want to prejudge what the review may find, but we provide consular assistance to many thousands of British nationals every year. There is, of course, a debate which the shadow Foreign Secretary alluded to about whether or not he should have been made a citizen in 2021. But in 2024, when we became a government, he was undoubtedly a British citizen.

We will continue, I am sure, to provide consular assistance on a non-judgemental basis. If a British national is in considerable distress overseas, if there are outstanding questions about their treatment, than British nationals of all kinds can rely on the support of the United Kingdom.

20:58

Rt Hon Tom Tugendhat MP (Tonbridge, Conservative)

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Tom Tugendhat. >> Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. >> May I first of all welcome the statements from Minister has made. I certainly agree with him on the I certainly agree with him on the strikes in Syria and the view he's taken towards the Houthis in Yemen who have murdered so many people over recent years. May I ask him about a separate aspect of the Iranian situation that we're seeing? We're seeing extraordinarily courageous protesters on the streets all across Iran in various different cities and towns.

But we're also seeing Russian cargo aircraft coming in, landing in Tehran, presumably carrying weapons and ammunition. And we're hearing reports of large amounts of gold leaving Iran. I was wondering whether he could update the House on any of those reports, which suggest that the regime itself is preparing for life after the fall.

20:58

Mr Hamish Falconer MP, Parliamentary Under-Secretary (Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office) (Lincoln, Labour)

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The. Madam Deputy Speaker, for reasons I'm sure my right hon. Gentleman will understand. I'm not in a position to give a detailed update on the the reports he alludes to. I would simply underline the point I made in my statement, which is that the freedom of assembly, the right to protest, are in any rights of the Iranian people. And we want to see the Iranian government respect that.

20:59

Melanie Ward MP (Cowdenbeath and Kirkcaldy, Labour)

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Melanie Ward thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. And let me start by thanking the Minister for all his work on Yemen, which gets too little attention. I know it's a personal commitment of his on the humanitarian crisis. There is truly horrific. Hear, hear. As he said over Christmas, the Israeli government banned 37 international humanitarian organisations, many of them British, from delivering life saving aid in the State of Palestine. They include medical aid for Palestinians, the International Rescue Committee, Action Aid and Medicines on Frontier.

In doing so, Israel follows in the footsteps of other aid banning regimes such as North Korea, Russia and Myanmar. More civilians are dying as a result. We know from the last two years that words and statements have no impact on the behaviour of this Israeli government. So when will the UK take real action? Impose sanctions on all of those Israeli government officials who are involved in this illegal, inhumane ban on humanitarian organisations?

21:00

Mr Hamish Falconer MP, Parliamentary Under-Secretary (Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office) (Lincoln, Labour)

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Madam speaker, my hon. Friend >> Madam speaker, my hon. Friend speaks with considerable experience of delivering aid in Palestine. She of delivering aid in Palestine. She will know I won't comment further on sanctions, but this question of the NGO's ability to operate in Gaza is obviously vital for the very, very pressing questions which face the Palestinian people in the British government will continue to raise them.

21:00

Rt Hon David Mundell MP (Dumfriesshire, Clydesdale and Tweeddale, Conservative)

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David Mundell. >> Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker, and I also very much welcome the fact that the Minister made such a fact that the Minister made such a reference to Yemen. As the hon. Lady has just said, we often talk in this chamber that Sudan does not get enough attention, but the attention that has been focussed on Yemen, given the scale of the crisis there, has been pitiful, I'm afraid, in this Parliament and I hope today reflects a change in that.

But how can he convince us that that he and the Foreign Office can actually deliver on prioritising these issues when, as we've already heard in the previous statements, there are so many other issues that are commanding attention.

21:01

Mr Hamish Falconer MP, Parliamentary Under-Secretary (Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office) (Lincoln, Labour)

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Madam Deputy Speaker, I would just like to fulsomely emphasise that I would like it if there were that I would like it if there were fewer issues on the international stage and indeed in the Middle East, particularly over the Christmas period. But the there clearly is a range of very, very significant and important developments which are happening both in the region I am responsible for and indeed those of my colleagues. Yemen is a priority for us. I was glad to be the first Minister to visit in six years.

The developments subsequent to my visit obviously underline both how dramatic the stakes are in Yemen and how important it is that the UK remains focussed. It's one of the reasons why I've been speaking to my colleagues in Yemen, in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates over the last few days.

21:02

Paul Waugh MP (Rochdale, Labour )

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Paul Waugh. Thank you, Deputy Speaker. Can I welcome the fact that, as the Minister said, the UK that, as the Minister said, the UK is spending £116 million this financial year on aid to Palestinians, that's vital aid for healthcare, food, clean water and sanitation. But the fact remains that that aid is often stuck at the border because of the continued closure of the Rafah crossing, but also, more importantly, at a time of humanitarian crisis in Gaza, which is desperately urgent. The decision by the Israeli government to withdraw support or accreditation for the NGOs like ActionAid, International International Rescue Committee and the Norwegian Refugee Council, is an act of calculated and unconscionable cruelty, isn't it? And will the Minister join me in condemning that act? And as my hon.

Friend says, consider urgently the question of sanctions against Israeli Ministers responsible for it.

21:03

Mr Hamish Falconer MP, Parliamentary Under-Secretary (Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office) (Lincoln, Labour)

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Mr. fence has been a doughty campaigner on these issues since he arrived in the house. I don't have arrived in the house. I don't have much further to add. The British position is absolutely clear in relation to the de-registration of NGOs. We opposed the proposals when they were first mooted and we oppose the De-registration now these are credible organisations. He refers to many of them, many of them featured in the disasters, the Dec appeal that was ongoing through Christmas. And I know that many of our constituents, including my constituents in Lincoln, will have contributed fulsomely because they are so keen to see aid entering Gaza in the way that we all know it needs to Monica Harding.

21:03

Monica Harding MP (Esher and Walton, Liberal Democrat)

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Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. >> The Minister speaks at length about humanitarian need and the UK's desire to lead. Yet the reality is that this government has reality is that this government has cut aid to its lowest level this century, that opts. Yemen and Syria all face cuts, and Syria alone this year, aid has been slashed by 35%. So how can the government credibly claim urgency on humanitarian access, stability and peace whilst simultaneously withdrawing aid budgets? And in Gaza, the Minister rightly condemns the suspension of licences of ingos.

But the restriction of humanitarian aid is against international humanitarian law. So, beyond the words, what consequences will this government place on the Israeli government?

21:04

Mr Hamish Falconer MP, Parliamentary Under-Secretary (Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office) (Lincoln, Labour)

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Yeah, yeah, yeah. Madam Deputy Speaker we've we've talked at some Speaker we've we've talked at some length before about the actions we've taken, including sanctions against two Israeli Ministers. I against two Israeli Ministers. I won't, for the reasons I've already alluded to, speculate on sanctions from the Dispatch Box on the questions that the hon. Lady asks about Aids. It is it's absolutely incontrovertible that we have made tough decisions in relation to aid budgets, but we also have to be clear on the restrictions that are in place, which no amount of money can overcome.

We talked about the situation in Yemen, particularly in the Houthi controlled areas. I am not saying that the overall volumes of aid do not matter, but some of the questions on which in all of these contexts are most vital is whether or not access for that aid is allowed. You can spend an awful lot of money on aid, which then ends up waiting in warehouses. And that's why we have been focussed in Abrahams.

21:05

Debbie Abrahams MP (Oldham East and Saddleworth, Labour)

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Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker, >> Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker, and I welcome my hon. Friend's statement on the the lack of statement on the the lack of progress in Gaza. This is a real concern. And then on top of this, this shockingly callous display by the Israeli government in banning the 37 organisations, it just is incomprehensible. But I want to focus on what's happening in the West Bank and people being stripped of their land, murdered in cold, cold blood.

As these illegal settlements are expanding, when will the government act in lockstep with international allies and use the legislative tools at their disposal, such as the 2018 sanctions and Anti-Money Laundering Act, so that we can stop the illegal trade that is happening and make sure that we're banning goods, services and investments from the illegal settlements.

21:06

Mr Hamish Falconer MP, Parliamentary Under-Secretary (Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office) (Lincoln, Labour)

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I thank the hon. Lady for her question, and I know she's she's written to me in the Foreign Secretary on these questions, and I'll respond fully to that letter. She knows that the government is deeply concerned by the expansion, both in settlements themselves and violence associated with it. That's why we joined our colleagues in France, Germany and Italy in a statement on this. That's why we condemned the most recent announcements from the Israeli government in relation to settlements. And it is why we have continued to press them, not just on the approval of settlements, but also on correspondent banking, which is an issue of vital importance to the Palestinian economy.

It was good that there was a temporary extension of correspondent banking arrangements for the West Bank, but that must be extended further. Andrew Murrison Deputy Speaker, can I.

21:07

Rt Hon Dr Andrew Murrison MP (South West Wiltshire, Conservative)

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Thank the Minister for a comprehensive regional update? It looks like we may be seeing the beginning of the end of a wicked regime that has ruled Iran since 1979. However, despite the best intentions of Israel and the US last year, a large part of Iran's nuclear inventory remains intact and potentially poses a threat if the regime crumbles. What measures can be taken reasonably taken to ensure that that inventory is secured, and that it is put beyond use by any malign state or non-state actors?

21:08

Mr Hamish Falconer MP, Parliamentary Under-Secretary (Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office) (Lincoln, Labour)

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Minister Madam Deputy Speaker, >> Minister Madam Deputy Speaker, my predecessor, is knowledgeable in these questions and invites me to these questions and invites me to comment on a speculative proposal. What would happen should the Iranian government fall in response to these protests? I have learned in this job not to make predictions or to speculate in this way. All in that way, all I will say is that the status of Iran's nuclear program remains of the utmost interest and priority to the British government.

It is why we re-impose the snapback sanctions late last year. We will continue to monitor these developments very, very closely. Nuclear proliferation is amongst the gravest threats, not just to regional but global security, and we will continue to give it the focus that it deserves.

21:08

Imran Hussain MP (Bradford East, Labour)

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Imran Hussain. >> Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. The reality is that Israel continues to breach the ceasefire continues to breach the ceasefire whilst the international community continues to offer words and statements of concern without any real action. As we've already heard in the chamber today. This week it announced that 37 international aid organisations will now be prevented from distributing aid in the occupied Palestinian territories. That means more women and children already starving will die in continuation of Israel's genocide in Gaza.

Does the Minister not think that the time for words of concern and statements of concern without action is over? And when will he finally announce proper, meaningful action, including ending all arms sales, widespread sanctions on Israel in the same way we have done to Russia for its war crimes in Ukraine, and ending all trade with illegal settlements here.

21:10

Mr Hamish Falconer MP, Parliamentary Under-Secretary (Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office) (Lincoln, Labour)

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Madam Deputy Speaker I have set out already the continued aid efforts. I've set out the work efforts. I've set out the work we're doing, both alone and alongside partners, to ensure that these points that we're discussing this evening are made with the force that they require to the Israeli government, and will continue to do so.

21:10

Chris Law MP (Dundee Central, Scottish National Party)

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Chris Law. I won't surprise you that I'm going to echo more or less what many people have said on Gaza. Across this House, which is 1.6 million this House, which is 1.6 million people are facing starvation, winter floods, winter storms, freezing temperatures, aid is being totally blockaded. 37 NGOs, including medicine, some frontier, Norwegian Refugee Council, ActionAid, Oxfam and others are denied access and less than 10% of aid that was received before October 23rd is now getting through. And the question that keeps getting asked in this house is this what's the next concrete step that this UK government is prepared to take if we can't discuss sanctions and all we're discussing talk? Is there something else that can be given is offered to all of us in this House who are desperate to hear some

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further progress that's going to be made. Thank you. I can reassure the hon.

21:11

Mr Hamish Falconer MP, Parliamentary Under-Secretary (Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office) (Lincoln, Labour)

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>> I can reassure the hon. Gentleman. This has been a priority through the Christmas period. We will continue to work on it with the urgency that it requires, and

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the urgency that it requires, and I'll continue coming to the House to provide updates. Stella Creasy. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker.

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Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I feel I must press the Minister on this issue about the settlements that were announced over the

21:11

Ms Stella Creasy MP (Walthamstow, Labour )

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that were announced over the Christmas period, the further 19 of them in the West Bank. Because Minister Smotrich has been explicit, this is about deliberately making impossible to establish the Palestinian state. It brings to the total. In the last three years alone, 69 new settlements in the West Bank, several of which were ones that had previously been dismantled. These actions are provocative at best, deeply disturbing for the peace process that will benefit so many people in both Israel and Palestine.

As a result, he has said that the government condemns them. But we know in this history of this crisis that condemnation isn't enough. We do need concrete action. So what more can you tell us about his conversations with our allies in America, for example, who I know are also concerned about the settlements he take to stop this deliberate attempt to stop the peace process?

21:12

Mr Hamish Falconer MP, Parliamentary Under-Secretary (Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office) (Lincoln, Labour)

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Mr. Madam Deputy Speaker, let me say a little bit about those 19 settlements that were announced. I settlements that were announced. I condemned them immediately. I have sanctioned the Minister in question, Minister Smotrich. I announced it in June. He is completely committed politically to oppose the establishment of a Palestinian state. As I announced in my statement today, we have a Palestinian embassy in London. The British government now irrevocably recognises a Palestinian state. I recognise the force of what she says.

There are Ministers in the Israeli government completely opposed to the establishment of a Palestinian state. That is not the policy of the British government, and it is not the actions that I and the rest of the government have taken since July 24th.

21:13

Rt Hon Kit Malthouse MP (North West Hampshire, Conservative)

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Kit Malthouse Madam. >> Kit Malthouse Madam. >> Deputy Speaker. >> As the Minister pointed out, the situation in Gaza remains catastrophic and I join with other colleagues in recognising that. Against that backdrop, the barring of these aid agencies or access by these agencies is particularly cruel and wicked. And it's horrifying to think what the motivation might be. But of course, these agencies also deliver services in the West Bank, whereas colleagues have also pointed out the situation deteriorates with home demolitions, summary executions and seemingly psychopathic thugs roaming the territory, burning homes and attacking innocent Palestinians.

We have happily, though, recognised the State of Palestine and have, as the Minister said, now established full diplomatic relations. So against that backdrop, if the Palestinian government were to request that the UK cease trading with foreign nationals illegally resident on its territory, on what basis would we refuse that right.

21:14

Mr Hamish Falconer MP, Parliamentary Under-Secretary (Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office) (Lincoln, Labour)

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I will, as I did with his colleague, resist the temptation to be drawn into speculative questions. be drawn into speculative questions. But just to be clear, the the West Bank is considered Palestinian territory. Israeli goods must be labelled as being produced within green line Israel if they are to benefit from the trade arrangements they have with the UK. If they are not produced in Green Line Israel, they are subject to very different arrangements indeed. I understand, I think the honourable sorry, the right hon.

Gentleman has signed the letter that my colleague has, and I'll provide a full response in due course.

21:15

Matt Western MP (Warwick and Leamington, Labour)

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Matt Western. >> Matt Western. >> Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I just want to pick up on the point that my hon. Friend was talking that my hon. Friend was talking about in terms of aid getting in and and the paucity of that, but just the utter ridiculousness of how Israel is frustrating, not just the quantity of aid, but really the basic elements of aid, such as tent poles and tents or razor blades, whatever, or generators claiming that somehow they are dual use and therefore a potential threat.

Could I urge him, really, in terms of humanitarian basis, to to pick this up with his opposite number, about just how wrong this is and how he is denying humanitarian aid to the people of Palestine?

21:15

Mr Hamish Falconer MP, Parliamentary Under-Secretary (Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office) (Lincoln, Labour)

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My hon. Friend makes important >> My hon. Friend makes important points. The dual use list is which is restricting aid into Gaza is is restricting aid into Gaza is clearly having very, very significant humanitarian effects covering a wide, wide range of items, including the shelter items he described. It has also had a very adverse effect on the ability to ensure even the rudiments of health provision in Gaza. We have, and will continue to call on the Israeli government to review the dual use list and ensure that vital supplies get in in the quantity that is required with the urgency demanded.

21:16

Brian Mathew MP (Melksham and Devizes, Liberal Democrat)

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Brian Mathew. >> Madam Deputy Speaker, I welcome the Minister's statement and the good news about the establishment of the Palestinian Embassy today in of the Palestinian Embassy today in London. My question, however, concerns Sudan as a member of the International Development Committee, the latest assessment we have on the number of killings in El Fasher is now 75,000 people. The horror that those poor people are living and dying through every day demands action. Before the city of El-obeid suffers the same fate or worse, with millions of people at risk of starvation through this war.

What discussions are being had with the UAE to stop the flow of weapons, and with the African Union, to see an expedition, an expeditionary peace force put together to save Sudan? Thank you.

21:17

Mr Hamish Falconer MP, Parliamentary Under-Secretary (Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office) (Lincoln, Labour)

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Mr. Thank you. >> Mr. Thank you. >> The hon. Gentleman is right to highlight the situation in Sudan. It's the worst humanitarian crisis It's the worst humanitarian crisis of our time, despite the many other pressures that I described in other parts of the world, we are doing all we can politically and diplomatically to end the fighting. It remains a priority for the Foreign Secretary and the Minister for Africa, and we're working alongside the US led quad, including in engagements with our our colleagues in Saudi Arabia, the Emirates and all those with an ability to influence Andy Slaughter.

21:18

Andy Slaughter MP (Hammersmith and Chiswick, Labour)

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Thank you very much, Madam Deputy Speaker. This morning I had Deputy Speaker. This morning I had the honour to attend the official opening of the Palestinian Embassy in my constituency by His Excellency Ambassador Hussein Zomlot and also by 14 year old Abida, evacuated to the UK for medical treatment after losing two of his limbs in Israeli bombings. Can I thank the Minister for his work in achieving recognition, which his predecessors failed to do in the past 80 years, and also for supporting the medical evacuation? But can I press him on this point about action against settlements when the Israeli government has declared policy of using settlements to prevent that very Palestinian state, that we have just recognised, what practical steps or what.

What reason can he give for not taking action to stop investment in settlements and to stop trading settlements?

21:18

Mr Hamish Falconer MP, Parliamentary Under-Secretary (Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office) (Lincoln, Labour)

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Tahir Ali I thank my hon. Friend >> Tahir Ali I thank my hon. Friend for his kind opening remarks. It's for his kind opening remarks. It's easy with so much going on to lose sight of the individual cases in these conflicts and meeting some of the children that we have medically evacuated is a truly humbling reminder. Both of the horror of war, the horror of what is happening in Gaza, but also the power of the UK to really make a difference to people's lives.

So I'm grateful to him for bringing it to the house's attention. We are not only committed to a Palestinian state, we have recognised one. We have set out clearly where that Palestinian state is and that clearly has implications under international law points we have made, both in relation to the most recent set of settlements announced by the Israeli government and indeed some of the other very significant settlements, including the E1 settlement that have been announced. There are also steps that we are taking in relation to the corresponding banking questions, which are also vital.

I can assure my hon. Friend, and indeed the House, that we will continue to work on these issues through the New Year.

21:20

Dr Ellie Chowns MP (North Herefordshire, Green Party)

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Ellie Chowns. >> Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I thank the Minister for his statement in. He rightly condemns the outrageous blocking of delivery of humanitarian aid that's desperately needed in Gaza. His statement did not mention the West Bank, but as colleagues have highlighted, another development over the Christmas period was the decision of the Israeli Security Council to permit establishment of 19 new settlements. Now, the Minister rightly condemned this, but repeated condemnation, which is repeatedly ignored by an Israeli government that repeatedly breaks international law, is simply not enough.

So will the Minister finally take the very straightforward, concrete step that is open to him of banning all trade with illegal settlements? They are illegal. Their proceeds are proceeds of crime. Why will he not take that step? Mr.

21:21

Mr Hamish Falconer MP, Parliamentary Under-Secretary (Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office) (Lincoln, Labour)

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Madam. >> Deputy Speaker, I remind. >> The House that I've announced three waves of sanctions in relation to settlements in the West Bank. I have announced sanctions on both Mr. Smotrich and Mr. Ben-Gvir, the two politicians in Israel, in the Israeli government. Sorry that colleagues from across the House have most often referred to in their understandable concern about the expansion of settlements. I will respond to the letter in relation to goods. There is, as I said to the hon.

Gentleman from the conservative benches, there are very different arrangements in place for trade with those settlements in the occupied Palestinian territory.

21:21

Mr Tanmanjeet Singh Dhesi MP (Slough, Labour)

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Tanmanjeet Singh Dhesi. >> Tanmanjeet Singh Dhesi. >> Thank you. Very much. >> Madam Deputy Speaker the. >> Number of illegal settlements approved by the Netanyahu approved by the Netanyahu government in the occupied West Bank has shamefully reached the highest level since 2017. Alongside this, as the wholly inadequate level of humanitarian aid reaching desperate Palestinians in Gaza, the Israeli government has cruelly withdrawn the accreditation of a further 37 NGOs and has also cruelly blacklisted some essential item.

Does the Minister agree that this continued intolerable suffering must stop? And what is the UK government doing to increase aid and ensure that NGOs can operate freely? To distribute aid to the vulnerable and the dying?

21:22

Mr Hamish Falconer MP, Parliamentary Under-Secretary (Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office) (Lincoln, Labour)

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My hon. Friend. >> Has pushed these points with force, and I know that he will continue to do so in this House. As continue to do so in this House. As I've set out our position on deregistration, I've set out our position, too, about the importance of removing restrictions and ensuring that the aid we and so many others are providing, including, I'm sure, some of his constituents in Slough via the Dec appeal, gets to the people who need it in Gaza and will continue to work on that Shockat Adam.

21:23

Shockat Adam MP (Leicester South, Independent)

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Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. >> Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. More than 500 aid workers have been killed by Israel in Gaza since killed by Israel in Gaza since October 2023. Back in October 2024, the Prime Minister then said, Our Prime Minister said to Israel, and I quote, that the world will not tolerate any more excuses on humanitarian assistance. So can I please ask the Minister to explain any tangible policy steps that the UK will take? Not words, not condemnation, tangible policies.

Now that Israel has taken further actions to obstruct much needed aid and endanger endangered our aid workers. Sir.

21:23

Mr Hamish Falconer MP, Parliamentary Under-Secretary (Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office) (Lincoln, Labour)

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The hon. Gentleman is right to talk of the danger to aid workers. talk of the danger to aid workers. He and I know many others across the House will be aware that more more than 500 aid workers have died more than 500 aid workers have died in the Gaza conflict. I have set out some of what we are doing to try and ensure that aid gets into Gaza. We will continue to take those steps. We will continue to work with our partners in the way that I have set out.

21:24

Tom Rutland MP (East Worthing and Shoreham, Labour)

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Tom Rutland. I agree with the Minister that Mr. El-fattahs tweets are abhorrent, and I'm glad that the government has made its position on his views clear. But I cannot understand the clear lack of due diligence on such a high profile case, which has led to getting him over here being a priority for successive governments. It calls into question the adequacy of the procedures within the FCDO, if even the civil servants working on the case were not aware of his tweets, so can the Minister set out what he will do to ensure that due diligence is conducted on high profile consular cases, so that officials can provide advice and Ministers can make decisions with as full an understanding as possible of the facts relating to

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any particular case. Minister. It is precisely the concerns

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It is precisely the concerns that my hon. Friend outlined that led to the Foreign Secretary commissioning the permanent Under-Secretary to conduct the

21:24

Mr Hamish Falconer MP, Parliamentary Under-Secretary (Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office) (Lincoln, Labour)

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swift review I described in my statement, and will update the House when it's concluded. >> Caroline Voaden. >> Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker.

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Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. It's quite difficult to know what to focus on in this wide ranging statement. The rights of women and

21:25

Caroline Voaden MP (South Devon, Liberal Democrat)

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statement. The rights of women and girls in Iran or the awful situation in Yemen. But I would like to focus on the situation with Israel banning 37 international aid organisations like MSF and Oxfam from Gaza. Now, in the minister's statement, he uses passive language. He says too much aid is still stuck at Gaza's borders. Now, this might be the X Reuters editor in me, but I would like to say that I think that's wrong. The aid is not stuck at Gaza's border.

It is being deliberately held there in an act of cruelty by Israeli government, who does not want the aid to help the people of Gaza. So could the Minister please tell the House exactly what the UK government is doing to restore access? What leverage are they using to force the Israeli government to reverse this cruel decision? And when will they work with EU allies to bring in much wider sanctions? Perhaps it is time for trade, sport and cultural sanctions against Israel so they will really listen, rather than just a passive statement, which is clearly making no impact on the Israeli government's actions.

21:26

Mr Hamish Falconer MP, Parliamentary Under-Secretary (Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office) (Lincoln, Labour)

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Minister. >> I hesitate to argue with an editor, but I think it's been absolutely clear. My statement today, and indeed all of my today, and indeed all of my statements from the moment I went myself to Allawi, to the warehouses where aid was being blocked by the Israeli government from crossing the border, it is absolutely clear what the British government's view is about the restrictions on aid which are imposed by the Israeli government.

21:26

Rachael Maskell MP (York Central, Labour )

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Rachael Maskell you, Madam >> Rachael Maskell you, Madam Deputy Speaker, the provision of aid is needed at pace. The provision of health care is needed provision of health care is needed at pace. And yet, over the last 27 months, pace has not been the months, pace has not been the response. And what I would say to the Minister is how is he taking a step back and looking, for instance, at the instruments available to him, like the international law framework, to ensure that that can operate at pace, because clearly without pace, the Israeli government feels that it has impunity to do whatever it wishes.

21:27

Mr Hamish Falconer MP, Parliamentary Under-Secretary (Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office) (Lincoln, Labour)

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Minister Madam Deputy Speaker, as I alluded to in my last answer, we have wanted more aid into Gaza we have wanted more aid into Gaza since almost the first day we were the government. I have travelled extensively to the region and seen the restrictions on aid. I have called repeatedly for the Israelis to allow that aid in. We will continue to work to try and see that aid getting in at the pace and the scale that is required. We are doing a range of things.

We are part of the CMC, which is shadow Foreign Secretary visited and I believe met UK embeds within the CMC. We have worked with the Jordanians on airdrops. We have gone to al-arish ourselves to make these points. The Foreign Secretary went to Jordan in November. I would not wish her or anybody else in the chamber, or watching at home to draw any other conclusion than the British government is committed to getting aid in as quickly as possible.

21:28

Mike Martin MP (Tunbridge Wells, Liberal Democrat)

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Mike Martin thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker, I'd like to pick up Deputy Speaker, I'd like to pick up this theme mentioned across the House around increased settlements House around increased settlements and trade and along with the concerns expressed from across the House, I have a particular concern that currently there are Israeli settlements that are trading with the UK but passing their goods off as coming from Israel. And as the Minister said himself, there's more favourable trading arrangements if you do trade with Israel vis a vis trading with the settlements, so will the British government commit to publishing segregated trade statistics by category of goods and by origin of good, to be green line Israel versus the settlements?

21:28

Mr Hamish Falconer MP, Parliamentary Under-Secretary (Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office) (Lincoln, Labour)

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Mr. >> The hon. Gentleman asked an important question, and he raises the spectre of those in the occupied Palestinian territory, falsely labelling their goods as being within the Green Line, publishing more detail about goods which he alludes to potentially being falsely labelled would probably not enlighten the House or anybody else on what the truth of the situation is. What I would say to all of those who are in the occupied Palestinian territory, who are producing goods in settlements is, if they breach the arrangements, set out very clearly for trade with the UK than they will be in breach.

The HMRC will investigate and we will take action.

21:29

Paula Barker MP (Liverpool Wavertree, Labour)

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Paula Barker. >> Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. As the Minister alluded to from the Dispatch Box, British taxpayers have witnessed atrocities committed have witnessed atrocities committed by Israeli authorities in Gaza, then acted to donate to NGOs that are ordinarily able to deliver much needed humanitarian humanitarian aid to Gaza. However, Israeli authorities continue to impede full humanitarian access, leaving aid paid for by the British public out of the reach of those who urgently need need it. Can the Minister explain how, to the British public how the UK plans to urgently solve this ongoing issue and ensure an

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charities? Minister. Thank my hon. Friend for the question. As I set out in the statement. It is very clear in the 20 point plan what the provisions around aid need to be, provisions around aid need to be, and they include the unimpeded operation of the UN and humanitarian agencies. That is what we need to see, and we are talking to all of our partners, as well as raising these points directly with

21:30

Mr Hamish Falconer MP, Parliamentary Under-Secretary (Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office) (Lincoln, Labour)

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raising these points directly with Israel to ensure that, as she says, the aid provided from the UK and many other places gets into Gaza in the way that it needs to.

21:30

Mr Adnan Hussain MP (Blackburn, Independent)

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Adnan Hussain. Thank you, Madam >> Adnan Hussain. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. As Israel continues. Its brutal treatment of Palestinians in Gaza, aid remains Palestinians in Gaza, aid remains blocked even as people face flooding, severe weather and freezing conditions that have already claimed the lives of infants. I asked the Minister why the government is not demanding full, unrestricted access for international aid workers, UN agencies and medical teams and I ask, why is foreign media still barred from Gaza? What is the UK doing to ensure independent international journalists can report freely so the world can see the true scale of the of the

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devastation and the horrific crimes being committed? Okay. Mr. Madam Deputy Speaker, I have set

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Madam Deputy Speaker, I have set out already why we want international NGOs in Gaza, why international NGOs in Gaza, why it's so vital that aid can get in in an unimpeded way. It is also vital that international

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vital that international journalists, and indeed journalists of all kinds are able to report freely. Alex Sobel. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker.

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Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I know the Minister is aware of the case of Marwan Barghouti and Marwan

21:31

Alex Sobel MP (Leeds Central and Headingley, Labour )

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Barghouti. His case was reported by the Inter-Parliamentary Union to have been in violation both of the have been in violation both of the Oslo Accords and the Geneva Convention. Abducted by Israel from the West Bank and put on trial in Israel. He will have seen the reporting today that sanctioned Minister Ben-Gvir said that Barghouti should be executed, an unconscionable statement by a unconscionable statement by a sanctions Minister. Can I ask the Minister whether the government has assessed the compatibility of Mr.

Barghouti's trial and detention with international humanitarian human rights law, where this informed any representations made the Israeli authorities beyond calling for IRC, ICRC, Access.

21:32

Mr Hamish Falconer MP, Parliamentary Under-Secretary (Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office) (Lincoln, Labour)

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Minister well, let me be clear. The British government opposes the use of the death penalty in all cases everywhere. As a principled position, the treatment of position, the treatment of detainees in Israel has been a question that we have also raised recently, and I'm happy to revert him on the more detailed question he asks about Mr. Barghouti. Chris Coghlan Deputy Speaker, I was extremely proud to serve on the anti-Jewish campaign in the Foreign Office, and I think it's important to recognise that that campaign is both just and I believe represents

21:33

Chris Coghlan MP (Dorking and Horley, Liberal Democrat)

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the UK actually learning the lessons from Afghanistan and Iraq and what has been a largely and what has been a largely successful intervention. And I strongly welcome the new government in Syria. But it is, of course, concerning that there has been an concerning that there has been an increase in ISIS activity in the last year. But perhaps the most intractable issue with ISIS, in my intractable issue with ISIS, in my experience, is the 27,000 ISIS members and their families in members and their families in prisoner camps in Syria, including many children who are being radicalised.

Can the Minister assure me that both the government and the global coalition is monitoring this risk and taking what practical measures it can to prevent the next generation of ISIS emerging?

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Mr. I thank the. Member for his service, both in

21:33

Mr Hamish Falconer MP, Parliamentary Under-Secretary (Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office) (Lincoln, Labour)

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>> Member for his service, both in the Foreign Office and in the confirm. >> That the. >> Camps in northeast Syria remain

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Camps in northeast Syria remain a high priority for the doctor. Scott Arthur. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker.

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Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. And I do thank the Minister for his statement and also for being so quick to condemn Netanyahu when yet

21:34

Dr Scott Arthur MP (Edinburgh South West, Labour)

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quick to condemn Netanyahu when yet again tried to block aid into Gaza and also for condemning new settlements, which hopefully will not actually go forward. But I do want to talk about Iran. And before Christmas time, I visited a few schools in Edinburgh South West, Boroughmuir, Balerno, Currie, Tynecastle and there I met young people who were really keen to vote the Scottish Parliament election this year. But I contrast that with what I see on social media. Our young people in Iran around the same age, out in the street, risking everything to vote, particularly women, given the Nobel Prize in this country.

So will he join me in applauding these young people, particularly the women, for all they are doing? And when he meets his counterpart, will he remind them that these people have the right to protest and the right to determine their country's future?

21:34

Mr Hamish Falconer MP, Parliamentary Under-Secretary (Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office) (Lincoln, Labour)

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Minister? >> Minister? >> I thank him for the question. We do remind the Iranian authorities of the right to protest. It is of the right to protest. It is vital that that right is able to be conducted both with access to communications, which have come communications, which have come under pressure in Iran in recent days and indeed without the threat of violence.

21:35

Ayoub Khan MP (Birmingham Perry Barr, Independent)

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Ayoub Khan thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. Deep down. >> We all know that there is no real ceasefire. How can it be a ceasefire when more than 500 civilians, Palestinians have been murdered, approximately 100 of them children? We all celebrated the New year with family and friends with fireworks, when IDF soldiers celebrated New Year's by firing unlimited bullets, and to Gaza blindly. The level of depravity is unspeakable. And now we know that 37 reputable organisations are being prevented from providing humanitarian aid.

There is one suggestion. We know that nine countries, along with the UK, expressed their concern. Can I ask the Minister what stops the Minister, this government, from joining with those nine countries and making a visit to the ICC and raising this matter? So we get a ruling and then enforce it if necessary, with military.

21:36

Mr Hamish Falconer MP, Parliamentary Under-Secretary (Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office) (Lincoln, Labour)

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The hon. Gentleman will be familiar with the deliberations of familiar with the deliberations of the ICC already in relation to this conflict. The ICC is supported by the UK, but it operates independently and at a distance, rightly, from the Ministers of this country and any other country.

21:36

Kim Johnson MP (Liverpool Riverside, Labour)

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Kim Johnson. Friend for his statement and his continued work in the region. But Madam Deputy Speaker, the IDF continue to deliberately target children in Gaza, the ongoing genocide and the systemic destruction of medical facilities in the region means that those desperately sick and injured children are unable to access the medical attention they need. But I'd like to thank the Minister for meeting with Obeida and Mahmoud to medically evacuated children. Hosted by the Prime Minister in number ten just before Christmas, but we will, the Minister update the House in terms of what work is going on in terms of increasing the numbers of Gazan children that will be medically evacuated to this country for the need that they need, the support they need.

Minister.

21:37

Mr Hamish Falconer MP, Parliamentary Under-Secretary (Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office) (Lincoln, Labour)

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I was deeply moved to meet the >> I was deeply moved to meet the injured Gazan children with my hon. injured Gazan children with my hon. Friends. As I said during that meeting, it is it is vital that we ensure that children in Gaza have access to the healthcare that they need. It is vital that the supplies to provide that healthcare are able to get into Gaza. It is, in most cases, going to be more appropriate that children who have to leave Gaza to get medical assistance are provided that assistance in the region.

But there are clearly specialised cases where the UK can make a real contribution. And we continue to look at that and I'll return to the house shortly on that.

21:38

Jim Shannon MP (Strangford, Democratic Unionist Party)

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Jim Shannon. Can I thank the Minister very much for his very detailed statement? It's much appreciated by all of us in this House who have a very, very deep interest in human rights, and we thank him for that. We know his heart and we appreciate it. Iran is in the throes of, of of street protests for the price of and access to food. 31 people killed, women and girls denied basic human rights. But for years Christians by Hyde, Shias, Sunnis and many other religious groups have been directly abused and murdered, churches destroyed, religious groups have been denied access to education, to health, to jobs, to property, even the right to have their own burials of their co-religionists and their own graveyards.

It is truly time, I believe, to step up all actions to protect these religious groups in Iran and to give the freedom that Iranian people desire. What can be done with the Iranian government in exile to deliver the freedom, the liberty, the democracy, and for a secular, a non-nuclear republic that all Iranians desire? Thank you.

21:39

Mr Hamish Falconer MP, Parliamentary Under-Secretary (Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office) (Lincoln, Labour)

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Mr. >> I thank the hon. Gentleman we set out alongside many of our partners in the international partners in the international system, a statement covering a range of rights based issues. As at the UN Third Committee in November, freedom of expression, freedom of religion are important rights which we will continue to advocate across the world.

21:39

James Naish MP (Rushcliffe, Labour)

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James Naish. >> Thank you, Madam Deputy. >> Speaker, and on behalf of my constituents, I welcome the establishment of the Palestinian Embassy in London today. Just Embassy in London today. Just turning to Syria. Its long term stability depends on protecting its long standing diversity and long standing diversity and preventing sectarian violence. As the Minister has alluded to, in light of recent violence and the lack of progress this weekend in integrating the Syrian Democratic Forces in north eastern Syria. International institutions, I wonder what the Minister would say about the progress that's being

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made in terms of building an inclusive Syria for the future? Minister.

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Minister. It is vital that Syria is a place which is seen as safe and place which is seen as safe and secure, not just by its majority, but the important minorities, which but the important minorities, which are a vital part of Syria's fabric. are a vital part of Syria's fabric. My hon. Friend refers to the Kurds of northeast Syria. There's also, of course, a range of other minorities, not limited to the Alawites, the Druze and others. It is vital that the Syrian government provides all minority communities in Syria with assurance of their in Syria with assurance of their place in the new Syria, and we discuss these questions regularly with the Syrian government.

21:41

Mr Hamish Falconer MP, Parliamentary Under-Secretary (Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office) (Lincoln, Labour)

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Calvin Bailey. aircraft in Syria reminds us of the continuing threat that plays to the people of Syria and our partners in

21:41

Mr Calvin Bailey MP (Leyton and Wanstead, Labour)

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the region, the importance of our European allies, and the importance of funding a strong and capable military. Would. My right hon. My hon. Friend or would the Minister agree with me that we should honour our great, our brave servicemen that took part in this operation? And can he outline what steps are And can he outline what steps are being taken to ensure the continued security of Syria?

21:41

Mr Hamish Falconer MP, Parliamentary Under-Secretary (Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office) (Lincoln, Labour)

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Thank you sir. for his service in the RAF. I am very proud to be the MP for RAF Waddington. He probably trumps me honestly in in closeness to the RAF, given his long service there, they performed vital work in countering the threat of Daesh in Syria. We will continue both with our diplomatic and all other levers, to ensure that Daesh does not re-emerge in Syria and pose a threat not just to Syria, but to the region and indeed the UK.

Madam.

21:42

Kirsteen Sullivan MP (Bathgate and Linlithgow, Labour )

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Deputy Speaker. Late last year I met constituents who run a met constituents who run a community link with Daire Hughes in the West Bank. Villagers there have described a daily life of hostility and obstruction by police and intimidating, threatening intrusions by nearby settlers. Despite Israeli court rulings in favour of the villagers on repeated occasions. Can the Minister advise how the UK's recognition of the State of Palestine will translate into practical steps to protect communities like James and advance peace, security and democratic governance?

21:43

Mr Hamish Falconer MP, Parliamentary Under-Secretary (Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office) (Lincoln, Labour)

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Minister. >> I thank my hon. Friend and her constituents. We will continue to take actions as required to ensure take actions as required to ensure that the rights of Palestinians are protected. Indeed. My hon. Friend alludes to Israeli courts have upheld those rights on a number of occasions, and it is vital that the rule of law is seen and does operate in these areas.

21:43

Warinder Juss (Wolverhampton West, Labour)

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Warinder Juss. >> I thank the. >> Minister for his. >> Statement and for all the work that he has been doing on these that he has been doing on these issues. What reason has the Israeli government given us for stopping these NGOs from operating in Gaza? And if it is absolutely clear, as has been mentioned by other members in the House, that it is a deliberate act of cruelty to prevent health care and aid going into Gaza and to defeat the peace plan.

What action are we taking as a UK government against Israel and to reinstate the NGOs.

21:43

Mr Hamish Falconer MP, Parliamentary Under-Secretary (Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office) (Lincoln, Labour)

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Minister. >> Minister. >> As they have set out publicly, the Israeli government have sought more detail about the Palestinian more detail about the Palestinian staff of these NGOs. Many of these staff of these NGOs. Many of these NGOs have not provided it, given concerns over the targeting of aid workers. That impasse has led to the deregistration of many of these NGOs. A number of international parties, including the UK, have proposed acceptable solutions consistent with humanitarian principles, to try and navigate these concerns, but they have not been taken up.

21:44

Douglas McAllister MP (West Dunbartonshire, Labour)

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Douglas McAllister. >> Thank you, Madam Speaker. >> The Minister advised in his statement that consular cases of British citizens detained abroad British citizens detained abroad are at the heart of the work of the Foreign Office and provided an update on some of those cases. My West Dunbartonshire constituent, Jack Johal, remains arbitrarily detained in India for over eight years now. Madam Deputy Speaker, in two weeks time it will be 3000 days. What is being done now to secure his release beyond just raising his case with Indian counterparts? We have been doing that for eight years with no effect.

21:45

Mr Hamish Falconer MP, Parliamentary Under-Secretary (Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office) (Lincoln, Labour)

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Mr. >> Mr. >> I know how dedicated my hon. Friend is to the case of his Friend is to the case of his constituents. I raised, in particular, the cases in Iran. I wouldn't want the House to draw conclusions about relative priority. There are a range of cases across the world of great sensitivity, and I'm sure the Minister responsible for India, where his constituent was detained, would be happy to meet him to discuss it further.

21:45

Sonia Kumar MP (Dudley, Labour)

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Sonia Kumar. >> Deputy Speaker. I welcome the Palestinian Embassy. But with the crisis in Gaza still acute, the Israeli government's decision to Israeli government's decision to strip NGOs of accreditation is unconscionable and puts vulnerable families at even greater risk. I welcome the steps taken to bring injured Gazan children here for treatment, but many are just too unwell to travel. What additional steps, whether through field hospital, specialist equipment and teams and medicines, will the Minister provide for children in Gaza who are unable and not stable enough to travel to receive this specialist treatment?

21:46

Mr Hamish Falconer MP, Parliamentary Under-Secretary (Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office) (Lincoln, Labour)

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Minister. question. I need to be clear that there is that the contribution that the UK has made in the provision of the UK has made in the provision of aid to children is always going to be a tiny drop in the ocean of overall need. We are working in the ways that I have set out to try and ensure that medical assistance is provided in Gaza, with all of the equipment and expertise that that involves, where that is not possible.

We have provided aid to the Egyptian healthcare system in order to support Palestinians there. I have met some of them myself in Ellie Reeves General Hospital. But where there are, as I set out to my hon. Friend from Liverpool where there are specialised cases, and we must indeed look at them, and I'll say more to the house in due course about that.

21:47

Emily Darlington MP (Milton Keynes Central, Labour)

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And the final question. Emily Darlington. Darlington. >> Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. First, I'd like to thank the Minister for taking over an hour's worth of questions on the updates that he's provided right across the region. And I know it's a very difficult job that he has to do, particularly with the decimation of US aid and the cuts in our aid. I wanted to ask a question about what we are doing to open the borders for those people who have family and connections to the UK, to be able to escape the horror that they're in in Gaza and be able to get a visa to visit family here in the UK.

Has he can he update the House on any progress he's had in getting those borders open, or any discussions he's had with the Home Office to stop the restriction of biometric and be able to apply for visas from within Gaza.

21:48

Mr Hamish Falconer MP, Parliamentary Under-Secretary (Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office) (Lincoln, Labour)

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My hon. Friend has been a committed campaigner for cases in her own constituency, and I know her own constituency, and I know that there are colleagues right across the House with constituency and personal interest in these cases. As I said to the House shortly before we rose, there are a range of cases where we have been able to provide support, both in relation to tutoring students, some of the medically injured children that we've discussed already, it remains a real challenge to ensure that people with a legitimate reason to travel are able to do so, and I'm happy to take up any individual cases with you.

21:48

Daisy Cooper MP (St Albans, Liberal Democrat)

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And that concludes the statement. Point of order Daisy Cooper. >> Thank you. >> Madam Deputy Speaker, on a point of. >> Order. >> Could you please advise how I

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Could you please advise how I might elicit satisfactory responses to a series of written questions that I have tabled to the Treasury that I have tabled to the Treasury on the impact of business rates on retail, hospitality and leisure businesses? I had asked for very specific figures relating to the number of businesses the Treasury expect to be eligible for transitionary reliefs, how many premises will be brought into paying rates for the first time as a result of the recent evaluations and an analysis of the number of businesses who previously enjoyed RL reliefs and would see increases from the 1st of April.

None of these questions, Madam Deputy Speaker. None of them have received substantive replies. I raised the matter with the Leader of the House by letter before Christmas, but have not yet had a response. Could you please advise me whether there are any other routes available to me and other parliamentarians, so we can receive accurate and data rich responses to questions so we can effectively scrutinise government policy, which is hammering our high streets.

21:49

Judith Cummins MP (Bradford South, Labour)

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I thank the hon. Lady for notice. Have a point of order which will Have a point of order which will have been heard by the government frontbench. As has been said before, the chair is not responsible for the chair is not responsible for the content of Ministers answers. However, the Procedure Committee is conducted and conducted an inquiry into written parliamentary questions which is accepting evidence until Friday, the 16th of January and I am sure that they will be interested in the issues that the hon.

Lady raises. Presentation of Bill. In the absence of the member, we will move on to the next item of business. We now come to motion number two relating to the Environmental Audit Committee. Jessica Morden to move. The question is as on the Order Paper, As many as are of that opinion, say aye.

21:50

Motion on behalf of the Committee of Selection: Environmental Audit Committee

21:50

Alice Macdonald MP (Norwich North, Labour )

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22:07

Mr Hamish Falconer MP, Parliamentary Under-Secretary (Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office) (Lincoln, Labour)

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Minister. >> Madam Deputy Speaker, I am very grateful to my hon. Friends for securing this debate, and I pay tribute to her work through the all party group on Afghan women and party group on Afghan women and girls, and indeed for other doughty champions for Afghan women represented in the chamber this evening. As my hon. Friend alluded, Afghanistan matters to me not only as a Minister, but as a person who knows the country well. I have first hand experience of dealing with the Taliban, and I am determined that there should be held to account for their horrific treatment of women and girls.

My hon. Friend set out the situation well. She is right to point out that Afghanistan is now one of the worst places in the world to be a woman. Every single aspect of life is restricted by the Taliban. Girls cannot attend school after the age of 12. Women's employment is almost entirely blocked. The sound of a woman's voice outside her home is considered a moral violation. Millions are being systematically excluded from society and robbed of their future. Afghan women deserve meaningful, equal participation in all areas of life, and these infringements on their freedoms must be reversed.

The UK government has consistently condemned the Taliban's treatment of women and girls. Senior officials travel regularly to Kabul, most recently in December, to urge the Taliban to reverse their barbaric decrees. On every visit, the treatment of women and girls is raised. Our officials pressed the Taliban to meet their international obligations and use our voice on the world stage to keep up the pressure. This includes speaking out of the UN Human Rights Council and in other international forums. During my visit to the UN last January, I made clear that the Taliban's actions are unacceptable and that we will not allow the voices of Afghan women to be forgotten.

In December, the UK condemned the ongoing restrictions on female staff at the Islam Reception Centre at the UN Security Council. This is a reception centre near the border with Iran. We use our position as chair of the G7+ Group to mobilise and coordinate international engagement on Afghanistan. We also support the initiative of key member states to hold the Taliban to account for violations of the UN convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination Against women. I recognise the power for calls to clarify the situation in Afghanistan as gender apartheid.

It's a complex and emotive issue. We are still determining our position, but we're actively engaging with civil society and international partners to understand all perspectives. I will.

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PQ to the Minister for giving way, and I know his commitment to and experience in Afghanistan. But and experience in Afghanistan. But before Christmas again, the APPG, including the hon. Member for Norwich North, met with the UNHCR's Afghanistan representative. As we know, many people are returning to know, many people are returning to Afghanistan from Pakistan, Iran and elsewhere. And often they are from female single headed households. So female single headed households. So they are doing so with a degree of trepidation.

My understanding from that meeting is, is that that body receives no funding from the UK government. Is that something that the Minister would consider looking at? Because that surely must be an item of leverage in those meetings that he has been describing in

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relation to UK officials? Minister. We are providing support to

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We are providing support to returnees from Iran and Afghanistan. That support is mostly funnelled That support is mostly funnelled through the IOM. We we have not yet announced our allocation of aid for Afghanistan next year, but it will Afghanistan next year, but it will be, of course, coming back to this House when we are in a position to House when we are in a position to do so. This year, the Human Rights Council voted to establish an independent accountability mechanism.

We are exploring how the UK can contribute meaningfully to that, especially as the scope and operational details become clearer. There is a growing humanitarian crisis across Afghanistan. As my hon. Friend was so clear, about 23 million people are in desperate need of humanitarian assistance. And as the hon. Lady on the benches opposite highlighted, women and girls bear the brunt. Afghanistan is one of the most dangerous places in the world to give birth, with the highest maternal mortality rate in the Asia Pacific region.

We remain committed to tackling this crisis. We've allocated more than £150 million this financial year for life saving aid to Afghanistan, assuring ensuring that at least half of beneficiaries are women and girls. Last November, we hosted a successful food security and nutrition conference in London, strengthening our response to the hardships and hunger facing Afghan families. We're focusing on effective solutions, working alongside international partners and those in Afghanistan who know the country best. Turning to human rights and accountability, we support the mandate of the UN Special Rapporteur for Afghanistan, Richard Bennett.

I met him last year to discuss the situation and we remain in regular contact with him. We also remain maintain regular engagement with Afghan women to hear their perspectives. I have met with them and the Baroness, Harriet Harman, our special envoy for women and girls, has held a round table for Afghan women in September, attending a parliamentary event in November on sexual and reproductive health. The UK special envoy to Afghanistan, Richard Lindsay, joined me today to brief parliamentarians. He regularly meets Afghan women both in the diaspora and in their home country.

We seek their perspectives on how we can better support their cause and hold the Taliban to account. My hon. Friend the Member for North Northumberland and the Special Envoy for Freedom of Religion and Belief, recently met individuals from the Hazara community. They discussed the discrimination faced by Hazaras, including the plight of Hazara women and girls. He and I remain focussed on supporting vulnerable communities. In December, Foreign Office officials participated in the US conference led by Afghan women demanding accountability for Taliban human rights abuses.

Their courage and perseverance in the face of adversity are profoundly inspiring, and their resilience commands my deep respect. Our work on accountability is strengthened by our close engagement with Afghan civil society, both in the UK and abroad. Those responsible for international crimes in Afghanistan must be held accountable. The Taliban systematic erosion of the rights of women and girls is the destruction of every kind of freedom. The Foreign Secretary recently announced All In Campaign reaffirms our desire to tackle violence against women and girls at its launch.

Doctor Sima Samar, Afghan human rights activist, was present and spoke about the appalling situation for women and girls in Afghanistan, making it a central focus of the campaign. I have been privileged to meet both as Minister and in my previous life. Many NGOs, activists, campaigners and politicians who want a better future for Afghan women and girls. Earlier today, I hosted a briefing for parliamentarians on the latest situation, and on Wednesday, I look forward to meeting Chief Whip scholars from Afghanistan who are now studying in the UK.

Some of these women had to be chaperoned out of Afghanistan to take up their studies here. Their studies from psychology to human rights, health to construction, should put them in a strong position to shape

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tomorrow's Afghanistan for the better. Able to Minister for giving way.

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Able to Minister for giving way. He's rightly calling out the Chevening Scholarship scheme. Can I also commend the work that the also commend the work that the Linda Norgrove Foundation has done in relation to the 19 female Afghan medical students that it brought to medical students that it brought to the UK to study at Scottish universities? That was really groundbreaking work between the UK and Scottish governments in and Scottish governments in relation to funding for their studies, and also the visas that allowed them to come.

There are very small numbers of individuals who would like to do the same. Could the Minister take away that request to ensure that we have that pipeline, so that hopefully in the future, those women can return to Afghanistan and provide the care that is required?

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Minister. I'm very happy to take that away. Madam Speaker and I'll revert to Madam Speaker and I'll revert to the hon. Lady. In conclusion, Madam Deputy Speaker the UK will continue to fight for the rights of Afghan to fight for the rights of Afghan women and girls, and continue to urge the Taliban to reverse their barbaric decrees. As the Foreign Secretary recently said, there cannot be peace, security or prosperity without women playing prosperity without women playing their part, free from violence and free from fear.

Thank you.

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The question is that the House do now adjourn. As many as are of do now adjourn. As many as are of that opinion, say aye. I the ayes have it. Order! Order!

14:00

Speaker's Statement

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