House of Commons
Prayers
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Oral Answers to Questions
(2 months ago)
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John Slinger (Rugby) (Lab)
Tracy Gilbert (Edinburgh North and Leith) (Lab)
The Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Liz Kendall)
This morning the nation fell silent to pay tribute to all those who have served and continue to serve in our armed forces, and those who have made the ultimate sacrifice. Today we honour and remember them. I quote the words inscribed on Lutyens’ beautiful Arch of Remembrance in Leicester from the hymn “O Valiant Hearts”:
“All they hoped for, all they had, they gave to save mankind—themselves they scorned to save”.
Some 4.3 million children are growing up in poverty—700,000 more than in 2010. That is why the work of our cross-Government child poverty taskforce is so urgent, and why we will use all levers available to increase family incomes, reduce family costs and give every child the best start in life.
John Slinger
I have had the privilege of assisting the brilliant volunteers at the Make Lunch organisation in Rugby, which provides holiday lunch clubs with play activities for entire families, including those with complex needs. Last summer it fed 25 families, last Christmas it bought slow cookers for families and this Christmas it is offering hampers. They treat families with dignity. As with food banks, is it not an indictment of the record of the last Government that such charitable support is needed in the first place?
Liz Kendall
Make Lunch sounds like an absolutely brilliant charity, and I ask my hon. Friend to pass on our great thanks for its fantastic work. That work is urgent, because the Child Poverty Action Group estimates that a quarter of children in my hon. Friend’s constituency are growing up poor. Our child poverty strategy will be published in the spring, but we will not wait to act. That is why the Budget announced a new fair repayment rate to slash universal credit deductions and give 1.2 million of the poorest households £420 on average a year, lifting thousands of children out of poverty.
Tracy Gilbert
Previous Labour Governments have tackled not only poverty but its root causes. Can my right hon. Friend outline how the child poverty taskforce will identify and tackle the root causes of poverty in my constituency and across the UK, to ensure a permanent end to child poverty?
Liz Kendall
I am sure that, like me, my hon. Friend thinks that it is unacceptable that an estimated one in six children in her constituency is growing up poor. We have taken immediate action to help the poorest families in Scotland through our fair repayment rate, which will benefit 110,000 households in Scotland. We are tackling the root causes of poverty with our reforms to make work pay, tackle exploitative zero-hours contracts and create more good-quality jobs in every part of the country.
Patrick Spencer (Central Suffolk and North Ipswich) (Con)
Child poverty is a scourge in British society, and I am grateful that the Secretary of State is bringing forward a child poverty strategy. Has she decided how to measure child poverty? May I warn her against using the much discredited relative measure, which, as we know, shows poverty decreasing during times of economic decline and increasing during times of economic growth? I implore her to use an absolute measure, which has a much better record of showing deprivation and long-term increases and improvements in living standards.
Liz Kendall
I am afraid I will disappoint the hon. Gentleman: we will look at relative poverty after housing costs, but we will go further and look to alleviate the very deepest poverty. It is appalling that hundreds of thousands of families are forced to rely on food banks—something that I know only too well from my time chairing Feeding Leicester. We will look at relative poverty, deep poverty and what it will take to give every child the very best start in life, by bringing together support from public services, charities and other groups. That is the way to bring down poverty and make the changes sustainable.
Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)
Northern Ireland has some of the highest child poverty figures in the whole of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. I am sure that the Secretary of State wants to help. We have had a 70% increase in food bank usage in my constituency in the past 12 months, which is an incredible indication. Will she kindly tell me what discussions she has had with her counterpart in the Northern Ireland Assembly on what more can be done to help?
Liz Kendall
The Minister from Northern Ireland is a member of our child poverty taskforce. I hope to visit soon and the co-chair of the taskforce, the Secretary of State for Education, my right hon. Friend the Member for Houghton and Sunderland South (Bridget Phillipson), also plans to visit. We have introduced the new fair repayment rate to slash the level of universal credit deductions because, as food banks in my constituency have told me, that really pushes people into poverty. That is not what the Government should be doing, and that is why we have taken action. I look forward to coming to Northern Ireland to talk to the hon. Gentleman, his constituents and the organisations fighting poverty to see what more we can do.
Ian Roome (North Devon) (LD)
The Minister for Social Security and Disability (Sir Stephen Timms)
The application process for personal independence payment is being kept under review. An online process is being trialled and we are looking at further potential improvements.
Ian Roome
One of my constituents in receipt of PIP is sight-impaired, deaf-blind registered and cannot use a phone or fill out forms. Can the Minister tell me why PIP reassessments are being scheduled for people with incurable disabilities and terminal illnesses?
Sir Stephen Timms
The hon. Gentleman raises a very fair point. It is, of course, important that we keep the awards under review, because sometimes they go up as well as down and we want to ensure that the support being provided is appropriate for the claimant. We also need to ensure that the process is accessible—I agree with him about that. Help can be provided to manage the assessment process. If he would like to send me more details about his constituent, I would be glad to see what we can do to help.
Debbie Abrahams (Oldham East and Saddleworth) (Lab)
Yesterday, it was reported in the Sunday papers that a blind woman with additional complex needs had her PIP assessment over the phone, which was approved, but was then sent a letter to confirm that. The charity Sense says that over half the people it surveyed feel humiliated by the process. I know my right hon. Friend is very keen to get this right, so will he expand a little more on the type of things the Department is changing?
Mr Speaker
Before the Minister replies, may I ask Members to look at the Chair, as third party, when they are asking or answering questions? I am being cut out. Those are not my rules but those of the House on how we should address each other, so if anybody has a problem, please have a word with the Clerks.
Sir Stephen Timms
My hon. Friend raises a very important point. Indeed, she and I worked on an excellent Select Committee report on health assessments for benefits, which provides some very important and valuable recommendations to the Department. We will continue to look at this issue. I am not familiar with the case that she refers to, but I will dig out the details. Clearly, it is vital that the process should be accessible to people with sight impairments or any other impairments. I completely agree with her.
Andrew Pakes (Peterborough) (Lab)
The Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Liz Kendall)
The legacy we inherited is almost 1 million young people not in education, employment or training—nearly one in eight—with all the long-term consequences we know that can bring for their future earnings, job prospects and health. That is why our new youth guarantee will ensure that every young person is earning or learning, which is better for them, better for the economy and better for our country as a whole.
Andrew Pakes
The DWP has described Peterborough as a national youth unemployment hotspot. In September, the youth claimant count was running at nearly double the national average. Places like Peterborough college, through its Jobsmart provision, are already pulling together a coalition to respond to that challenge. I welcome the Government’s youth guarantee and “Get Britain Working” plans to ensure that young people in places like Peterborough are given the opportunity to earn or learn. Will the Secretary of State please confirm a timetable for the publication of the White Paper?
Liz Kendall
The “Get Britain Working” White Paper will be published imminently, backed by £240 million of investment announced by the Chancellor in the Budget. I look forward very much to talking to my hon. Friend and the organisations that are working so hard locally, because I believe that the man, or even woman, in Whitehall can never know what is best in Peterborough, Leicester or Leeds.
Mr Richard Holden (Basildon and Billericay) (Con)
A small business in my constituency to which I have spoken over the last few weeks has raised concerns about the impact of the national insurance rises in the Budget on, in particular, those in lower-paid work, who in many cases are young people starting their jobs. What impact do the Government think that those rises will have on young people and youth unemployment?
Liz Kendall
Just last week I visited a very large employer in my constituency, Tesco, and saw the fantastic work that it is doing with the King’s Trust to ensure that more people get into work and stay in work. It is determined to work with us and our local schools, and employment and other providers, because they know that rather than writing off nearly a million young people, which led to the situation that we inherited, this new Government have a plan to get people into work, enable them to get on in work, and ensure that every young person has the chance in life that he or she deserves.
Mr Speaker
I call the new shadow Secretary of State, and welcome her to her post.
Helen Whately (Faversham and Mid Kent) (Con)
May I say how nice it is to be sitting opposite the right hon. Lady again, albeit, regrettably, having swapped places with her? I enjoyed our exchanges on social care during the last Parliament, and appreciated our constructive conversations during the pandemic, although, given how well she knows the care brief, I suspect that she was gutted, as I was, to see the incoming Government abandon the care cap and scrap more than £50 million of funding for social care training. The consistent feedback from jobcentres was that the biggest barrier to young people taking up job opportunities in social care was lack of career progression, hence our reforms to create a career path for care workers and investment in training. Has the right hon. Lady spoken to her counterpart in the Department of Health and Social Care about the impact of those social care cuts on her ambitions to get more young people working or learning?
Liz Kendall
I, too, welcome the hon. Lady to her post. As she has said, while we will always have our political differences we have also worked closely and constructively on issues that matter across the House, such as the terrible problems facing social care during the pandemic. I will continue that work, and I hope that the hon. Lady will as well, in her new role.
The hon. Lady asked about the impact of what is happening in social care on people’s opportunities and chances to learn. I have already had many discussions with, among others, members of integrated care boards, and they are passionate about the opportunities that exist to get more people into work and enable them to get on in their work, including jobs in social care. Joined-up working between the Department of Health and Social Care and the Department for Work and Pensions will be at the heart of our plans to get Britain working, because, unlike some Opposition Members, we do not find it acceptable for 2.8 million people to be locked out of the workforce owing to long-term sickness. We have a proper plan to get Britain working and growing again.
Helen Whately
The right hon. Lady will know that under the Conservative Government youth unemployment fell by 380,000, and that we were tackling inactivity with our WorkWell programme, helping people to stay in work or return to work, which I am delighted to see the right hon. Lady continuing. Unfortunately, however, as a result of her Government’s Budget and Employment Rights Bill, businesses will slash the number of their employees. Moreover, the Government have just broken another promise and hiked up university fees. What advice would the right hon. Lady give a young person who is currently out of work and education, and must choose between worse job prospects and more expensive university degrees thanks to her Government’s choices?
Liz Kendall
The hon. Lady’s party left nearly a million young people not in education, employment or training, and almost a record number of people—2.8 million— out of work owing to long-term sickness. They failed to introduce reforms to join up work, health and skills properly, and they have not learnt from those mistakes. I am proud that this Government are investing an extra £240 million to get Britain working again, giving people the opportunities that they need to work and build a better life.
Lewis Atkinson (Sunderland Central) (Lab)
Jamie Stone (Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross) (LD)
Tonia Antoniazzi (Gower) (Lab)
The Parliamentary Secretary, His Majesty's Treasury (Emma Reynolds)
We have launched the next phase of our pension credit campaign on radio, TV and print media, and the Government have written to 120,000 pensioners on housing benefit who may be eligible but are not currently claiming pension credit. After less than five months in government, we are bringing forward the merger of housing benefit and pension credit, which the Conservatives announced 13 years ago but failed to deliver.
Lewis Atkinson
Under the previous Conservative Government, many eligible pensioners in Sunderland Central did not receive the pension credit that they were due. When I speak to organisations such as Age UK Sunderland, they tell me that that was often because people did not know how and whether to claim. How many pensioners are now taking up pension credit thanks to the actions taken by this Government?
Emma Reynolds
We have seen a 152% increase in pension credit claims since late July, with over 74,000 pension credit claims up to mid-September. We know that many local authorities and, indeed, Members of this House—including me last Thursday—are helping pensioners on low incomes to ascertain whether they are due pension credit.
Jamie Stone
There will be people who are eligible for pension credit living in very remote areas, where connectivity is less than great. It is an appalling thought that they might miss out on what they are due. May I suggest to the Department that the way to reach out to those people might be through a database, followed by a mailshot?
Emma Reynolds
In addition to merging housing benefit and pension credit, which will help some of the people whom the hon. Gentleman has in mind, the Secretary of State and I have asked the Department to look at what can be done to make the application form simpler. The Department will report back to us by the end of the month, and we will update the House in due course.
Tonia Antoniazzi
I welcome the Government’s campaign to get people to sign up for pension credit, and I urge every pensioner in Gower to sign up and attend my pension credit event on 22 November. Does the Minister agree that we should highlight the fact that pensioners who go over the threshold could still be eligible because they receive another benefit, such as attendance allowance, or because higher housing costs are taken into account when applying?
Emma Reynolds
Yes, indeed. Assessing somebody for pension credit is a complex procedure, so we urge all those on low incomes to check whether they are eligible. We have seen an increase in the number of people applying online with the help of local authorities, Members of Parliament and charities, and we urge everybody who thinks that they might have an eligible family member to encourage their loved ones to apply.
Kirsty Blackman (Aberdeen North) (SNP)
Temperatures are set to drop to zero across Scotland by next weekend. Many pensioners are scared to put on their heating, with the Big Issue reporting a three-month delay in claims for pension credit. Can the Minister let us know what she is doing to ensure that those claims are processed as quickly as possible so that people can get the money into their pockets?
Emma Reynolds
I thank the hon. Lady for her question. We want people who are eligible to get support, and we have redeployed 500 staff to process those claims. I can assure her that that is something that we are focused on.
Danny Kruger (East Wiltshire) (Con)
The withdrawal of the winter fuel payment from 10 million households, including 70% of disabled pensioners, is a huge change, as is using pension credit to distribute the benefit to the minority of people who will still get it, yet the Government have rushed this change through without giving their own statutory advisory committee the chance to properly scrutinise it. Ministers have not even responded to the chair of the committee, who wrote to them several weeks ago with suggestions on how to mitigate the effect of the policy. On top of that, they have failed to provide a full impact assessment to show what the effect on poverty would be. Will they finally produce a full impact assessment of this policy, and when will the Minister respond to the chair of the advisory committee?
Emma Reynolds
I welcome the hon. Gentleman to his place. In answer to his questions, we have published an equality analysis, which he can find on the Government’s website. Owing to the legislation, we do not have to produce an impact assessment, but there is an equality analysis. I urge him to have a look at that. All I would say to him is that the new Leader of the Opposition argued in 2022 that winter fuel payments should be means-tested. I wonder how the hon. Gentleman might means-test the winter fuel payment, if he had the chance.
Danny Kruger
The Minister mentions the equality assessment. That was a high-level equality assessment that was only dragged out of the Government in response to a freedom of information request. The fact is that they are avoiding accountability for this policy and avoiding scrutiny by the House. The Government are saying that the impact of the cut on the poorest pensioners will be mitigated by pension credit, and we have heard from the Minister about the very small numbers who are taking up pension credit in response to this announcement. Their own figures predict that fully a third of eligible pensioners—that is 750,000 of the poorest people in the country—will not get pension credit and will not get the winter fuel payment.
That is what the Government are banking on. That is how they are making the savings that they predict from this policy: by cutting benefits to some of the poorest people in our country—[Interruption.] The Minister shakes her head, so she might want to put me right. Does she want all eligible pensioners to claim pension credit? [Interruption.] The Secretary of State says yes. If she does want that, does she then accept that the Government’s savings from this policy will be completely wiped out?
Steve Darling (Torbay) (LD)
On Armistice Day, it is important that we as a Chamber reflect on the Royal British Legion and its “Credit their Service” campaign. This is a campaign to ensure that when benefits are calculated, military compensation is disregarded. In the light of this, will the Secretary of State give serious consideration to disregarding military compensation when calculating pension credit?
Emma Reynolds
I associate myself with the hon. Gentleman’s comments and those of my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State. I will look carefully at what the hon. Gentleman has suggested and get back to him.
Torcuil Crichton (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) (Lab)
The Minister for Employment (Alison McGovern)
After 14 years of Conservative Government, 8 million adults and 4.3 million children were left in poverty. Among other things, £240 million was recently announced in the Budget to support better work so that people can get the dignity of a good job and the security of a proper wage. Details will soon be available, as the Secretary of State mentioned, in our “Get Britain Working” White Paper.
Torcuil Crichton
I thank the Minister for that answer and the assurance from the Dispatch Box that the maximum level of debt repayment from a household’s universal credit is to be reduced from 25% to 15% each month. That is great news for Scottish families, who could benefit by an average of £420 a year. Much of that debt management is carried out at the DWP centre in Stornoway in my constituency, and some 65 of the 80 staff there are involved in responding to calls nationally. That is a good example of job dispersal, and their service is high quality and is now involved in reducing poverty. I encourage the Minister to come and meet the staff there, to meet clients and to see the operation for herself.
Alison McGovern
My hon. Friend mentions the new fair repayment rate, which is another crucial part of the Budget and a downpayment on the action that we will take on poverty. I am fond of an invitation to Scotland, and I will happily accept that one.
Mike Martin (Tunbridge Wells) (LD)
The Minister for Social Security and Disability (Sir Stephen Timms)
The Department has adopted an iterative approach, updating the universal credit system to reflect user needs as they develop. The new Government are committed to reviewing universal credit to make sure that it is doing the job we need it to.
Mike Martin
One of my constituents spent six hours fully awake during an operation that went wrong, as doctors battled to save her life. Obviously, this affected her mental health, and she was deemed unfit for work by her GP and by a clinical psychologist. She then went through a half-hour telephone assessment for her universal credit health check, which deemed her fit to work, so she does not get universal credit and it was not backdated to the operation. Does the Minister think that that sounds right? If not, will he review the case?
Sir Stephen Timms
I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for drawing my attention to that. What he has described sounds very odd indeed, and I will be happy to look at the details if he will let me see them. We are absolutely committed to making sure that universal credit does the job that we need it to, including for people in the situation that his constituent has found herself in.
Graeme Downie (Dunfermline and Dollar) (Lab)
Last week, I was made aware of a constituent who is a carer for his wife, who experienced a stroke in 2016. The constituent is a veteran who lives with chronic obstructive pulmonary disease and was awarded carer’s allowance in 2017. Late last year, the DWP began demanding the return of more than £51,000 in alleged universal credit overpayments, and this April, under the previous Government, the DWP began taking it from his state pension without warning. Will the Minister meet me to discuss this case in more detail so that I can help my constituent?
Sir Stephen Timms
As my hon. Friend will know, there have been some very troubling cases of carer’s allowance overpayment. I am not sure whether carer’s allowance is part of the overpayment he describes, but I will be very happy to meet him to discuss what has gone wrong in this case.
Lewis Cocking (Broxbourne) (Con)
The Minister for Employment (Alison McGovern)
Jobcentres serving the Broxbourne constituency and elsewhere will change following the “Get Britain Working” White Paper, which has already been mentioned. This fundamental reform will have three parts: a new public employment service to get more people into work and to help them get on in work; a joined-up work, health and skills plan; and a guarantee for young people aged 18 to 21.
Lewis Cocking
The Budget has made it even harder for small businesses in my Broxbourne constituency to create jobs. What can the Minister do to make sure that jobcentres connect with local businesses to help those who are looking for work to find sustainable employment?
Alison McGovern
I thank the Minister for his question—[Interruption.] Honestly, I am still getting used to being on this side of the House.
The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right that jobcentres everywhere need to be locally responsive to employers, and that we need to provide an excellent service to local employers. If he has further thoughts on how we can make that work in his constituency, I would be very happy to discuss it with him.
Munira Wilson (Twickenham) (LD)
The Minister for Social Security and Disability (Sir Stephen Timms)
The last Labour Government dramatically reduced child poverty, and we want to repeat their success. The child poverty taskforce is exploring how to harness all available levers, including social security reform, and it will publish its strategy next spring.
Munira Wilson
The Prime Minister has said that he wants to break down the barriers to opportunity and tackle child poverty. He has also said that
“insecurity is the enemy of opportunity.”
Given that by the time the child poverty taskforce reports next spring, a further 16,000 children will have been dragged into poverty, and given the devastating impact that poverty can have on a child’s education, their health and their vulnerability to the criminal justice system, why will the Minister not do the right thing and scrap the two-child benefit cap to lift 300,000 children out of poverty immediately?
Sir Stephen Timms
The strategy will be very clear about how we will tackle the scourge of child poverty, and the hon. Lady is absolutely right to highlight the importance of doing that. Labour voted against the two-child limit, but we will not promise change until we know how we are going to pay for it. That will be addressed in the work of the taskforce, with the results published in the spring.
Warinder Juss (Wolverhampton West) (Lab)
Alistair Strathern (Hitchin) (Lab)
Damien Egan (Bristol North East) (Lab)
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Andrew Western)
No specific assessment has been made of the impact of the household support fund on low-income households in 2025-26, although we hear routinely from local authorities across the country about the impact of the fund in supporting those who are struggling. An evaluation of the fourth iteration of the scheme, running from April 2023 to March 2024, will be published shortly, exploring the benefits of the more than 19 million awards made during this period.
Warinder Juss
I agree that the payment of winter fuel allowance should be means-tested, because many pensioners who receive the winter fuel allowance simply do not need it. However, there are pensioners who are not entitled to pension credit who will struggle to heat their homes. Can the Minister please confirm the extent to which the household support fund will assist those pensioners in my Wolverhampton West constituency?
Andrew Western
The household support fund is intended to support a wide range of households in need, including pensioner households. There has been no ringfencing of funding for specific groups since October 2022, meaning that local authorities have the flexibility to support pensioners who are just above the pension credit threshold. In the 2023-24 financial year, 26% of household support funding went towards meeting energy costs.
Alistair Strathern
I welcome the Government’s decision to provide more than £1 billion in new funding for the household support fund, extending it all the way through next year, and to give much more notice to the local authorities that deliver it. The funding is so important not just to countless vulnerable residents, but to great local organisations, such as the Need Project food banks in my constituency. How will the Department work with local authorities to make the most of the notice and to ensure the funding goes as far as possible?
Andrew Western
My hon. Friend is absolutely right. As a former local authority leader, I know that above all else, certainty will allow councils to design and deliver sustainable plans for local welfare assistance. The Government’s commitment to funding the HSF until March 2026 offers that certainty and time to plan with greater confidence. To that end, we will confirm individual allocations for the forthcoming one-year extension to the HSF as soon as possible, and ahead of the scheme beginning on 1 April.
Damien Egan
Because the household support fund is devolved to local councils, there are lots of different examples of how the funding is spent, so how will the Minister ensure that the money from councils goes to the people who really need it?
Andrew Western
Like me, my hon. Friend is a former local authority leader—albeit a directly elected mayor, and with a far greater mandate, therefore, than I ever enjoyed. Like me, he will appreciate the importance of empowering local areas to respond to local need. That said, all councils must develop delivery plans to show how they are targeting the funds to support the most vulnerable, to ensure that the spirit of the HSF is upheld in helping low-income households with the cost of essentials.
Brendan O'Hara (Argyll, Bute and South Lochaber) (SNP)
The Parliamentary Secretary, His Majesty's Treasury (Emma Reynolds)
The last Labour Government lifted more than 1 million pensioners out of poverty, and this Government remain absolutely committed to supporting pensioners. We know that there are low-income pensioners who are not claiming pension credit, and we urge them to apply. This will passport them to receive other benefits too.
Brendan O'Hara
These are extremely worrying times for millions of pensioners who simply cannot fathom why one of the first acts of this new Labour Government was to remove their winter fuel payments. The Minister will be aware that last month the SNP Scottish Government opened applications for the pension age disability payment, which could be worth up to £434 a month for pensioners with disabilities or long-term health conditions. It will be piloted in Scotland next year. Will the Minister join me in welcoming this initiative and encouraging those who are eligible to apply for it?
Emma Reynolds
It is good to see that the SNP Government are focusing on that issue now, because during their 17 years in government, we have seen increases in pensioner poverty across Scotland.
Rachael Maskell (York Central) (Lab/Co-op)
Pensioners in poverty now have just 40 days to apply for the winter fuel payment via the pension credit system. Will the Minister look at extending the deadline so that more people can claim pension credit and get the winter fuel payment?
Emma Reynolds
I reassure my hon. Friend that we have redeployed 500 additional staff to process the claims. We are working at pace to process them, but 21 December remains the deadline.
Samantha Niblett (South Derbyshire) (Lab)
The Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Liz Kendall)
As a lifelong champion of unpaid family carers, I am proud that the first Labour Government in 14 years have given unpaid carers the biggest ever cash boost to the amount they can earn while still receiving carer’s allowance. That means family carers can earn an extra £2,000 a year and still keep their allowance. That is the difference this Labour Government are making: supporting families who do the most important thing, which is caring for the people that they love.
Samantha Niblett
I have spoken to many people in my constituency of South Derbyshire who are taking on caring responsibilities for loved ones. I know how hard that is and I am so grateful for the job they do, but it is often a thankless task. I am glad that the Government have taken action to support people in our communities who take on caring responsibilities, but it is disproportionately women who do so. Will the Secretary of State outline how the increase in the threshold will benefit women and allow them greater freedom to work?
Liz Kendall
My hon. Friend is right: 60% of unpaid carers are women, but women spend more hours caring, so they are disproportionately represented when it comes to receiving carer’s allowance. This is a small, but significant and important, step forward. It is a signal that the new Government understand that as people live for longer and care for longer, we will have to do more to help families balance work and caring responsibilities. That is the truth of family now: it is as much about caring for our elderly and disabled loved ones as it is about caring for our own wonderful children.
Clive Jones (Wokingham) (LD)
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Emma Reynolds)
Estimates for pensioners who are eligible for but not receiving pension credit were published in early October. The estimates show that more than 800,000 pensioners—individual pensioners, not households—are entitled to pension credit but are not claiming it.
Clive Jones
As the Minister will know, the Chancellor’s cruel decision to tie winter fuel allowance to pension credit, despite knowing that the uptake of pension credit is very low, will force thousands of vulnerable pensioners to choose heating or eating this winter. With 16,577 pensioners in Wokingham expected to be affected by the cuts, will she extend the deadline to apply for pension credit and consider pledging further support to increase take-up?
Emma Reynolds
I refer the hon. Gentleman to my answer to my hon. Friend the Member for York Central (Rachael Maskell): the deadline remains 21 December. Thanks to the Government’s steadfast commitment to the triple lock, more than 12 million pensioners will see their pension increase by more than 4% in April next years, up to £470. Over this Parliament, they will be better off by around £1,900, thanks to the triple lock. Low-income pensioners can also apply for the warm home discount scheme and, thanks to the extension of the household support fund, local authorities can target that support on low-income pensioners. In the longer term, the warm homes plan will transform homes across the country by making them cleaner and cheaper to run.
Mrs Emma Lewell-Buck (South Shields) (Lab)
The Minister for Employment (Alison McGovern)
As well as putting in place breakfast clubs that mean children are ready to learn, and as well as the fair payment rate—we have discussed that—which will stop families being tipped into destitution by debt, the ministerial taskforce, chaired by the Work and Pensions and Education Secretaries, will publish the child poverty strategy in spring 2025, using all available levers across government to bring about an enduring reduction in child poverty in this Parliament, as part of a 10-year strategy for lasting change.
Mrs Lewell-Buck
We know that the previous Government presided over shameful levels of child poverty, including nearly 500,000 children who are eligible for free school meals but who are missing out. Will my hon. Friend, alongside the Education Secretary, urgently look at the proposal by Feeding Britain for auto-enrolment to free school meals as part of the single application process for families claiming UC?
Alison McGovern
One person who has never looked the other way when people were facing poverty in this country is my hon. Friend. Through her innovation, she has ensured that household food insecurity is measured properly, and I pay tribute to her efforts. I have listened to what she said about Feeding Britain, and I will take that as an input into the child poverty taskforce. I hope that she and Feeding Britain will meet me to discuss how we can take that forward.
Tom Hayes (Bournemouth East) (Lab)
The Minister for Employment (Alison McGovern)
Helping parents to have fulfilling and sustainable work helps our economy and prevents child poverty. As we have mentioned several times, the “Get Britain Working” White Paper will rewrite employment policy and set our ambition for an 80% employment rate, but we will not get there without parents.
Tom Hayes
In recent weeks, I have met the DWP in Bournemouth and advice agencies including the citizens advice bureau for Bournemouth, Christchurch and Poole. Advice agencies welcome the record increase in carers allowance that was announced in the Budget. They and in-work parents with disabled children have also asked about the transition from child tax credit to universal credit. That may be a matter for the “Get Britain Working” White Paper, but can the Minister say how the Government will further support such parents to work and earn, and flexibly meet their families’ needs?
Alison McGovern
I thank my hon. Friend for bringing this matter to the House, and I pay tribute to all those he has worked with to understand the challenge that we face. He is right that we will take this forward through the “Get Britain Working” White Paper. Citizens Advice is playing an important role in supporting that work, and the work of the child poverty taskforce.
Alan Gemmell (Central Ayrshire) (Lab)
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Emma Reynolds)
I am leading the Government’s landmark pensions investment review, which aims to increase pensions investment in the UK economy and improve retirement outcomes for future pensioners. An interim report will be published soon. Phase 2 of the review, which will focus on pension adequacy, will be launched later this year.
Alan Gemmell
David Carson and Patricia Kennedy, constituents of mine in Central Ayrshire, face massively reduced pensions payments from their pre-1997 contributions to their Hewlett Packard pension, because current legislation index-links contributions from 1997 only. What assessment has the pensions review made so far of the challenges facing pension schemes, and will the Minister meet me to discuss David and Patricia’s case? The issue affects some hundreds of thousands of people.
Emma Reynolds
I thank my hon. Friend for raising that case. I would be very happy meet him, or any other hon. Member who has such cases in their constituency; however, the pensions review will look more at how current pension schemes can improve outcomes for future pensioners. We are looking at driving scale in consolidation of defined contribution pension schemes and local government pension schemes, and at a shift away from cost to value. I know that there is interest in that from across the House, and I hope that we can work on it across the parties.
Rebecca Smith (South West Devon) (Con)
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Emma Reynolds)
The Government remain absolutely committed to supporting pensioners. We are urging pensioners to check their eligibility for pension credit to ensure that as many people as possible have access to the support to which they are entitled.
Rebecca Smith
Ninety-seven-year-old Joyce from my constituency was worried about losing her winter fuel payment, so she contacted my office. It sounds like the Minister has had a similar experience. Fortunately, my team was able to assist Joyce. We ran a full benefits check, and helped her to secure pension credit, and therefore her winter fuel payment entitlement. However, does the Minister think that it is right that the oldest and most vulnerable should have to resort to getting their MP to help them claim pension credit?
Emma Reynolds
I am glad to hear that the hon. Lady was able to help her constituent. We are looking at the form, as I mentioned in a previous answer, and we will update the House soon on those developments.
Sarah Olney (Richmond Park) (LD)
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Emma Reynolds)
The Department does not have a pension credit application target. Published application numbers show that we received around 74,400 pension credit claims in the eight weeks from the end of July to mid-September.
Sarah Olney
In the weeks following the Chancellor’s announcements on the winter fuel allowance, the number of pension credit applications doubled, then nearly tripled. Now the DWP is delaying releasing any more data on this subject. I am concerned that the Government know that they will not be able to process the applications on time, and that the information is not being put into the public domain. Will the Minister tell me exactly how many pension credit applications have been submitted since 16 September, and whether the backlog will be cleared before older people start having to make a choice between heating and eating?
Emma Reynolds
I gently say to the hon. Lady that we are not delaying the publication of statistics. A new set of statistics will be published soon. As I said in previous answers, we have redeployed 500 additional staff to helping to process pension credit applications. We urge all those who have loved ones who are pensioners, or who are pensioners themselves, to apply if they think that they are eligible.
Calum Miller (Bicester and Woodstock) (LD)
The Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Liz Kendall)
The Budget took the first steps in this Government’s plan to drive up opportunity and drive down poverty in every corner of the country: it included an additional £214 million for our plan to get Britain working, a new fair repayment rate in universal credit to help over 1 million of the poorest households, and the biggest ever package to reduce fraud and error in the system, ensuring that every pound of taxpayers’ money is wisely spent. There is much, much more to do, but in the Department for Work and Pensions, change has begun.
Calum Miller
My constituent Kevin had to stop work in 2018 due to a medical condition. He is desperate to find a job, but has consistently found that he is not eligible for support from his local jobcentre. Kevin asked me, “How does someone who has fallen out of work get back into work?” Will the Secretary of State or a Minister meet me to discuss Kevin’s case, and see if, together, we can answer his question?
Liz Kendall
The hon. Gentleman raises an extremely important point. It is not right that his constituent, who wants to work, has suffered from a mental health problem but does not have the support that he needs. In parts of the country, steps have been taken to help provide the healthcare and other support that people need, but we need to go further, faster. My hon. Friend the Minister for Employment will indeed meet the hon. Gentleman. Let’s get cracking on this and see what we can do.
Josh Dean (Hertford and Stortford) (Lab)
The Minister for Employment (Alison McGovern)
There have been changes to ensure that referrals are GDPR-compliant, but I will happily discuss this issue with my hon. Friend. The very best jobcentres are closely linked with local support organisations, and we must ensure that that is the case everywhere.
Helen Whately (Faversham and Mid Kent) (Con)
The Conservatives are the party of work and aspiration, and once again, we left office with unemployment at a historic low. We all know that Labour always leaves unemployment higher than when it came into office, but rarely has it seemed in such a hurry to achieve that. Its first Budget will, according to the Office for Budget Responsibility, cost the country 50,000 jobs in the next few years alone. What assessment has the right hon. Lady made of the cost to her Department of those job losses?
Liz Kendall
May I gently say this to the hon. Lady? She should be apologising, because we have record numbers of people out of work due to long-term sickness; one in eight young people is not in education, employment or training; and people are locked out of the world of work because the Conservatives failed to make proper plans to get people into work and on in their work. Until Conservative Members face up to their responsibilities, and to the cost to the taxpayer of their mistakes in not getting people with long-term sickness into work—£25 billion extra over the course of the forecast period—they will remain on the Opposition Benches.
Helen Whately
I wonder if the Secretary of State did not hear my earlier question; I said that I was grateful that she is continuing the work that we did in government, through the WorkWell programme, to help people in ill health into work by joining up healthcare and employment. However, the point I was just making, to which she did not respond, was that 50,000 jobs will be lost as a result of Labour’s Budget. That is not the only thing frightening the life out of businesses at the moment—
Mr Speaker
Order. The hon. Lady can keep pointing at me, but this is topical questions, and I have all these Back Benchers to get in, so questions really need to be shorter.
Helen Whately
Thank you, Mr Speaker. The Budget is not the only thing frightening the life out of businesses at the moment. Labour’s Employment Rights Bill is a wrecking ball for the UK labour market. Labour’s own impact assessment predicts that businesses could cut staff—
Mr Speaker
Order. I did make the suggestion that you might come to the end of your question, but you decided to carry on reading, so I will have to stop you. I call the Secretary of State.
Liz Kendall
I am very proud of a Budget that invests in the long-term growth that this country needs, that gives a pay rise to the 3 million lowest-paid workers, and that invests in the NHS so that people can get back to health and back to work. That is the change that this country desperately needs.
Ben Goldsborough (South Norfolk) (Lab)
The Minister for Social Security and Disability (Sir Stephen Timms)
My hon. Friend is absolutely right. If a person is paid four-weekly, they receive 13 payments a year, so in one of the 12 monthly assessment periods each year, they are paid twice. That means that they probably get no universal credit that month, which completely messes up budgeting. I would be delighted to meet USDAW, and perhaps my hon. Friend, to discuss what we can do through our review of universal credit.
Steve Darling (Torbay) (LD)
I am sure all Members in this Chamber are aware of the Women Against State Pension Inequality campaign and the parliamentary ombudsman’s findings. Will the Secretary of State commit to making a statement in the House before Christmas on progress with her review of the ombudsman’s report?
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Emma Reynolds)
As the hon. Gentleman will know, the ombudsman took six years to consider a range of complex cases, and we are looking at their complexity. I was the first Minister in six years to meet representatives of the WASPI campaign. We hope to be able to update the House in the coming weeks.
Paul Davies (Colne Valley) (Lab)
Sir Stephen Timms
My hon. Friend is absolutely right to highlight that research from Carers UK. The Budget increased the earnings threshold, so people will be able to earn £10,000 a year from work and still claim carer’s allowance, and an extra 60,000 carers will become entitled to the allowance. It is a very big step forward.
Mike Martin (Tunbridge Wells) (LD)
Sir Stephen Timms
As I mentioned earlier, we are committed to reviewing universal credit. The way it works means that in each assessment period—each month—there is a new calculation based on the income that the person has received, as reported by His Majesty’s Revenue and Customs. However, I would be very happy to meet the hon. Gentleman to talk about how the system needs to be improved further.
Torsten Bell (Swansea West) (Lab)
Sir Stephen Timms
My hon. Friend is absolutely right. The threshold will increase on 7 April next year, and all current claimants will receive an annual uprating letter in the spring that will set out the new limit. As I mentioned a moment ago, 60,000 new unpaid carers will also become eligible for the allowance at that point.
Rosie Duffield (Canterbury) (Ind)
Given the new Government’s collective condemnation of the two-child limit over the eight years since it was introduced, which includes condemnation from many Government Members on Select Committees, will they at the very least commit to scrapping its heinous, sexist and frankly disgusting rape clause element?
Alison McGovern
The hon. Lady raises some of the worst aspects of the consequences of 14 years of Conservative Government. We will consider all those issues through the child poverty taskforce.
Dan Aldridge (Weston-super-Mare) (Lab)
Sir Stephen Timms
I congratulate my hon. Friend on being the Labour Member for Weston-super-Mare. I have met Liz Sayce, who will carry out the review, and she is raring to go. The terms of reference and timelines have not yet been set, but they will be in the next few weeks. As soon as they are, the details will be placed in the Library.
Suella Braverman (Fareham and Waterlooville) (Con)
Kevin is a pensioner in Waterlooville who has chronic obstructive pulmonary disease and struggles to breathe in the cold. His personal budget puts him, on average, about £55 above the poverty line, but he is one of many thousands of people who will be hit by the Government’s cruel cut to the winter fuel allowance. Political point scoring aside, what practical advice does the Minister have for Kevin to get him through the harsh winter ahead?
Emma Reynolds
I would suggest a number of things: the warm home discount scheme is available for those on low incomes, including pensions; we have extended the household support fund that local authorities can and should use to help people on low incomes; and in the longer term, the warm homes plan will help to make homes across the country more energy efficient and cheaper to heat. I will also say that thanks to the Government’s commitment to the triple lock, pensioners will be about £1,900 better off over this Parliament.
David Burton-Sampson (Southend West and Leigh) (Lab)
Emma Reynolds
As I said in answer to a previous question, we are looking at the form. Some 90% of applicants now apply online, but we note that the paper form is long and we are considering how we can simplify it.
Josh Babarinde (Eastbourne) (LD)
Eastbourne veteran Pauline was awarded military compensation for injuries that she sustained in the service of our country, but she said that that has caused her pension credit entitlement to plummet from £70 to just £10.42 a week. Will the Minister meet me to discuss her case and ensure that no veteran is penalised for their service to our country?
Emma Reynolds
The hon. Member is the second person to raise that issue and I happy to meet them both.
Euan Stainbank (Falkirk) (Lab)
How many current Department employees cannot receive further sponsorship due to the previous Government’s changes to the skilled worker visa salary threshold?
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Andrew Western)
My hon. Friend asks an important question and I will be delighted to follow up with him in writing.
Nick Timothy (West Suffolk) (Con)
According to the census, 72% of Somalis here live in social housing, compared with 16% of the population overall. In answer to my written question, the Department says it is “exploring the feasibility” of publishing benefits claimed by nationality, which is important for a proper debate on benefits policy and immigration policy. Can the Minister confirm that that work is going ahead and tell us when the data will be published?
Andrew Western
The hon. Gentleman will be aware that nationality and country of origin are not factors in assessing benefit eligibility. We may look at that in future, but I would be delighted to follow up with him in writing about how we will take it forward.
Mr Mark Sewards (Leeds South West and Morley) (Lab)
When I speak to my constituents, from Lofthouse to Farnley, they are extremely concerned about the amount of money being lost to fraud and error in benefits. Can the Minister confirm a timeline and a plan to get back the £35 billion that has been lost since the pandemic?
Andrew Western
My hon. Friend is right to raise that issue. The spiralling nature of fraud in this country since the pandemic and on the last Government’s watch is totally unacceptable. We will bring forward a fraud, error and debt Bill in the coming months, which is part of a much broader package—the largest-ever package brought forward by any Government—to take out more than £7.6 billion of fraud over the forecast period.
Martin Wrigley (Newton Abbot) (LD)
Citizens Advice tells me that the DWP continues to start action on alleged overpayments more than six years after the event. That is longer than bank records are kept to prove otherwise. Does the Secretary of State think that that is fair and right?
Sir Stephen Timms
I am not sure whether the hon. Gentleman is asking specifically about carer’s allowance or about other benefits, but if benefits have been overpaid, the Department has an obligation to recover the money. What is important is that overpayments are identified sooner and that people are notified when there is a problem, so that we do not get the very large sums that have accrued in overpayments in the past.
Defence: 2.5% GDP Spending Commitment
(2 months ago)
Commons ChamberRead Full debate Read Hansard Text Watch Debate Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
Urgent Questions are proposed each morning by backbench MPs, and up to two may be selected each day by the Speaker. Chosen Urgent Questions are announced 30 minutes before Parliament sits each day.
Each Urgent Question requires a Government Minister to give a response on the debate topic.
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James Cartlidge (South Suffolk) (Con)
(Urgent Question): To ask the Secretary of State for Defence if he will make a statement on his commitment to spend 2.5% of GDP on defence.
The Secretary of State for Defence (John Healey)
I congratulate the shadow Defence Secretary on securing the first Defence urgent question of the new Parliament. Previous Defence Secretaries answered just two urgent questions in the whole of the last five years. Although I cannot promise to answer every future UQ, I wanted to answer the hon. Gentleman’s first one today to underline just how seriously I take our Department’s responsibility to report to this House.
The Government have a cast-iron commitment to spending 2.5% of GDP on defence. We promised it in our manifesto at the election, the Prime Minister promised it at NATO in Washington in July, and my right hon. Friend the Chancellor promised it in the Budget two weeks ago, as well as announcing a £3 billion boost for defence spending next year to start to fix the foundations for our armed forces. That, of course, is on top of £3 billion each year for Ukraine. I remind the House that the last time this country spent 2.5% of GDP on defence was in 2010, with the last Labour Government—a level not matched in any of the 14 Tory years since.
Everyone agrees that defence spending must increase to match and deal with the threats we face. One of our very first acts as a Government was to launch the strategic defence review, which is working at pace to look at the threats we face, the capabilities we need and the resources we have available. It is not just about how much we spend, but about how we spend it. The Prime Minister said at NATO that our plan in the SDR will come first, and then we will set out the pathway to spending 2.5%; the Chief Secretary to the Treasury said yesterday that this will come in the spring.
Today is Armistice Day. At the eleventh hour, I had the honour of laying a wreath at the Cenotaph. Today is a reminder of what is at stake in this new era of insecurity; a reminder that our dedicated servicemen and women, around the clock, around the world, work to keep us safe; and a reminder of the ultimate sacrifice that so many have made in the past so that we may live in freedom today. We will remember them.
James Cartlidge
Thank you for granting this urgent question, Mr Speaker, especially on Armistice Day. I am grateful for the Secretary of State’s response, but he keeps going back to 2010 when we spent 2.5%. That is true, but he says it without adding the fact that his Government had bankrupted the country. In fact, I asked the House of Commons Library about this. The Institute for Fiscal Studies has confirmed that if Labour had returned to government, it was planning cuts to the defence budget of 20% to 25%.
But this question is about today. The threat picture is far graver than it has been for many generations, as the Chief of the Defence Staff confirmed at the weekend. As the Secretary of State says, the Labour party committed in its general election manifesto to a
“path to spending 2.5 per cent of GDP on defence.”
The Prime Minister said shortly after taking office that it was “cast iron”, which the Secretary of State has repeated today.
With President Trump’s election victory, there will inevitably be a greater focus on what more European NATO members can do to boost Europe’s own defence, but yesterday the Chief Secretary to the Treasury and this morning the Secretary of State himself were unable to say whether the Government would deliver on 2.5% in the current Parliament. In addition, yesterday The Sunday Times reported that Defence Equipment and Support in Abbey Wood has effectively been instructed to avoid any new procurement at all for the rest of this financial year.
Spending 2.5% is not an end in itself. The key reason that in April we set out a fully funded multi-year pathway to 2.5% was to enable the Ministry of Defence to procure, at pace and at scale, the munitions that we need to urgently replenish our stocks to warfighting levels. With the whole world wanting to buy more munitions, we cannot afford to delay any further.
I have key questions for the Secretary of State, because at the same time we are having this debate, there are a whole load of new burdens coming for the MOD which it will have to cover. In which financial year does he expect the share of GDP spent on defence to start rising significantly, and will he guarantee to hit 2.5% in this Parliament—yes or no? Not including existing programmes, is it true that there is a freeze on new procurement of defence equipment and support for the rest of this financial year? Will the MOD be 100% compensated by the Treasury for higher employer national insurance contributions and for the cost of increasing continuity of education allowance, and will service families be 100% compensated for the extra VAT on school fees? Penultimately, on Armistice Day can the Secretary of State absolutely rule out surviving spouses of service personnel being taxed on death in service benefits? Finally, on the Chagos islands, in the Department’s written answer to me it refused to say how much the MOD will contribute to renting back our own military base, so this is a very simple question: the Secretary of State will not tell us how much it is going to cost, but does he know how much it is going to cost?
Mr Speaker
Please remember that when I grant urgent questions, the time each person has is limited. It is two minutes for the main Opposition party and one minute for the other Opposition party.
John Healey
Fourteen years the Conservative Government had to increase defence spending to 2.5% of GDP, and there was not a plan or a pathway from the last Government, as the shadow Defence Secretary tries to claim. It was a political ploy that was announced four weeks before they called the general election. It was unfunded, and it was a con on the armed forces and on the British people, who gave their answer emphatically by sweeping away Tory MPs in many of the proudest military communities and constituencies across the country.
On the shadow Defence Secretary’s accusations about a total spending freeze, I am putting in place a grip on the out-of-control spending that the last Government left. We are securing value for money, we are cutting waste and we are getting a grip on defence spending in a way his Government did not.
We greatly value the continuity of education allowance and greatly recognise the role it plays in helping avoid disruption to the education of the children of serving personnel. In line with how the allowance operates, we will continue to pay up to 90% of private school fees following the VAT increase in January. By uprating the cap, we will take account of any increase in spending.
On the Chagos islands, of course I know the details because I was heavily involved in the negotiations. This secures Britain’s military base, and it secures a military base for our US allies, which is why they welcomed it so strongly. I have said to the shadow Secretary of State and to the House that when it debates the treaty, this House will have the full information.
Nobody knows better the defence inheritance that 14 years of Conservative government have left us for the past four months than the shadow Defence Secretary: he was a Defence Minister at the heart of the problems, with billion-pound black holes, service morale at record lows, and a crisis in the recruitment and retention of personnel. Never again must a Government leave our armed forces in a worse state than they found them, and this new Government will make this country more secure at home and strong abroad.
Mr Tanmanjeet Singh Dhesi (Slough) (Lab)
We live in an increasingly dangerous and volatile world, with hundreds of thousands of people dying or being injured on our own continent in Ukraine, and wars and conflicts raging in the middle east, Africa and beyond, not to mention the increased nefarious activity in the grey zone. Without a shadow of a doubt, we are dealing with exceptional circumstances and we need to grasp the gravity of the situation. I have a great deal of time and respect for the Secretary of State because I know that he gets it, but do others in government understand the gravity of the situation, because we need clarity? We need a timetable so that not only our allies, but those in our defence community, know where we are heading.
John Healey
Yes, they do. Everyone agrees that defence spending must increase, and it is increasing under this Government. It increased in the first Budget of this new Government by nearly £3 billion for next year. Alongside that is the cast-iron commitment that we are a Government who will set a path to spending 2.5% of GDP on defence.
Helen Maguire (Epsom and Ewell) (LD)
We are deeply concerned about the impact of the US elections on Ukraine and Europe. President Trump is an unreliable partner and, within days of his election, US support to Ukraine is regrettably under question. Clearly the UK needs to urgently set out a path to spending 2.5% of GDP on defence. We need to lead in Europe. Does the Secretary of State agree that the previous Government’s legacy on our Army, which is the smallest since the Napoleonic era, is deeply regrettable? Will he commit to securing a UK-EU defence and security agreement, as was on the table while Theresa May was Prime Minister? Will the Government convene a summit on saving Ukraine, to begin the process of seizure of frozen Russian assets, so that the UK and our European allies can support Ukraine regardless of the path the US takes?
John Healey
We do not need a summit to release the interest on the frozen assets—the corrupt Russian money—as we are doing that already. The Chancellor and I are working closely on that, and we have announced that, from early next year, £2.3 billion will be available for Ukraine for that purpose. I give the hon. Lady the assurance that we will pursue a UK-EU security pact, alongside the deep bilateral agreements we have already started to strike, including the one last month with Germany, which was the most comprehensive defence agreement this country has signed in many years. Finally, the hon. Lady is right—I have argued this before—that at a time of increasing global threats, European nations in NATO must do more of the heavy lifting. We must be prepared to spend more on defence, but we must also be prepared to work together to increase the level of deterrence we can offer to those who would do us harm.
Dan Carden (Liverpool Walton) (Lab)
Was President Trump not right in his first term, when he pushed NATO countries to increase defence spending? The numbers have gone from six countries meeting the 2% target back in 2021, up to 23 countries meeting the target now. Is this not serious, because if President Trump makes decisions on Ukraine in his second term, we might be faced with a choice either to accept those decisions or to step up and ensure Europe’s defence ourselves?
John Healey
I welcome the fact that 23 NATO nations will hit the 2% spend this year. I regard that as a floor, not a ceiling. The UK, under Governments of both parties, has always spent well above and set the pace for other European countries. We will continue to do that, because European countries in NATO must take on more of the NATO leadership. We are determined that the UK will do that, which is why we have said that our approach to defence will be a NATO-first policy. We will, wherever we can, look to be first in NATO, so that we set the pace on the sort of transformation to the better equipped, better able and more lethal forces that our nations need to deter adversaries and to defend ourselves if required.
Sir Julian Lewis (New Forest East) (Con)
The Secretary of State is right that we used to spend a lot more than 2%: in the 1980s we spent between 4.5% and 5.1% of GDP on defence. Does he share my concern at what I heard on the radio this morning, when a Labour politician in another place was saying that he could see an outcome in Ukraine whereby Russia gets to keep the territory it has occupied, while Ukraine does not get any guarantee of joining NATO but merely some more security assurances? We know what happened last time with the security assurances previously given. Does the Secretary of State agree that, whether we spend 2.5% on defence now or in the near future, it is important that whoever we send to Washington does not capitulate in advance?
John Healey
The right hon. Gentleman made the important point, implicitly in his question, that it is the Ukrainians who are fighting and the Ukrainians who will make the call about whether to talk and on what terms. Our task, as one of the leading supporters of Ukraine and its fight for sovereignty, freedom and its own future, is to support it and to step up our support for its fight, and then to step up our support, if necessary and whenever required, in any negotiations, as well as to play our part, as we have made the commitment to do, in providing any security guarantees for the longer term.
Ms Marie Rimmer (St Helens South and Whiston) (Lab)
Russia has gone to war in Europe, starting in Ukraine. It was America and Britain that saved Europe in the last war; it looks like this will be the same. Europe simply must step up. What discussions has the Secretary of State had with Lloyd Austin about America’s role in the way forward?
John Healey
To be quite honest with my hon. Friend, it is a little early to have discussions with America. It is less than a week since the presidential elections and the current Administration have more than two months to go. As she would expect, I am in detailed discussions with the current Administration and my counterpart there, in particular about how we together, as two of Ukraine’s leading allies, can step up our support over the couple of months ahead.
In the future, I expect a President Trump-led Administration to recognise that it is in America’s interests, NATO’s interests and the interests of all countries that believe in the international rules-based order and a stable and secure peace that Putin does not prevail, because if large countries like Russia are able to redraw international boundaries by force, that sends a signal that undermines the security of all nations. If reports are right that President Trump has already spoken to President Putin and warned him against the escalation that we see from Russia in Ukraine, that is a good first step and early sign.
Sir Iain Duncan Smith (Chingford and Woodford Green) (Con)
The right hon. Gentleman knows that I have the highest respect for him, even if we have occasionally clashed across the Floor. I ask him this simple question. In China today, one shipyard building naval vessels is out-building the whole of the United States’ naval capability—and it has many hundreds. Given that, and the threat from Russia, Iran and this totalitarian state axis, if Lord Robertson comes back and spells out exactly what I believe he will—that this is the biggest threat we have faced since the cold war—will the right hon. Gentleman not ask but tell the Prime Minister that the No. 1 responsibility is the defence of the realm, with 2.5% now?
John Healey
The Prime Minister does not need me to tell him that the first duty of any Government and of this Government is to defend the country and keep our citizens safe. He will not need me for that because he commissioned the strategic defence review; my job is to oversee it successfully. He will not need any persuading of the arguments, assessments of threats and capability recommendations that that strategic defence review, externally led by Lord Robertson, is likely to produce.
Mr Toby Perkins (Chesterfield) (Lab)
My right hon. Friend is absolutely right not to give a scintilla of credibility to the idea that the Conservative party, having spent 14 years never reaching 2.5%, would do that if only it had one more chance. He is also right that what is important is not just identifying more money for defence spending but making sure that we start spending it better. Can he say any more about what he is doing to ensure that the huge wastage in defence procurement that we saw under the Conservatives is brought into hand under his stewardship?
John Healey
I am almost tempted to encourage the shadow Defence Secretary to answer that question, because he was Minister for Defence Procurement until four months ago, so he is principally responsible, for instance, for the fact that only two of the 49 largest defence projects are on time and on budget. He failed to fix what the Public Accounts Committee of this House—an all-party Committee—termed the “broken” procurement system that has been failing our forces and failing British taxpayers. This is a deep task of reform. It is not a glamourous task, but I have made it one of my first priorities as Defence Secretary.
Mike Martin (Tunbridge Wells) (LD)
Is the UK able to provide an armoured division to NATO on an enduring basis?
John Healey
The armed forces will always respond to the requirements placed on them. We will always seek to fulfil our NATO obligations. One reason why I conducted a NATO test in the first 100 days is that I was concerned that part of the failures of the last 14 years had led to our falling short. That is part of the inheritance that we take on as a new Government. My determination as Defence Secretary is that we make our forces fitter to fight and better able to deter and to play a leading part in NATO, as it steps up our level of deterrence and defence across the 32 nations.
Johanna Baxter (Paisley and Renfrewshire South) (Lab)
Today, on Armistice Day, we honour those who have served, those who have fought and those who have made the ultimate sacrifice to protect the freedoms we enjoy. Does the Secretary of State agree that today and every day we must remember everything that our armed forces are doing to keep us safe? Will he come to my constituency to meet Sight Scotland Veterans, an incredible charity that provides amazing support to all our visually impaired veterans?
John Healey
At the risk of upsetting my diary secretary, I welcome the opportunity to visit my hon. Friend’s constituency and her local veterans group. She is right that, today of all days, we remember not just those who gave their lives for the way of life we enjoy today but the serving personnel—the men and women in our armed forces around the world. We currently have 10,000 personnel on operations in 50 different countries around the world. This is a reminder of their work day in, day out to keep us all safe.
Sir Bernard Jenkin (Harwich and North Essex) (Con)
Let me assure the Secretary of State that those of us who have followed the defence debate over the last 10, 20 or even 30 years know that he takes these matters extremely seriously and understands the scale of the challenge that we face. In that vein, I encourage him to start telling the truth: that we will have to spend far more than 2.5% of GDP on defence within quite a short number of years. A former Chief of the General Staff has warned that this country might be directly at war within the lifetime of this Parliament. May I suggest that the Secretary of State use his friends throughout this House to influence both his Government and the Treasury influences on the Conservative side, because we are going to have to bust a gut for a major rearmament programme that we have not seen in this country since the 1930s?
John Healey
The hon. Gentleman has been consistent in his arguments, and I welcome his contribution. The Treasury will have noted it, and will probably take it as an early representation for the next Budget. In the meantime, I will ensure that the strategic defence review starts with the threats that we face: war in Europe, conflict in the middle east and growing threats globally, as well as Russian aggression more widely beyond Ukraine. We will ensure that we are able to match the capabilities that we develop with the threats that we face, and we will do so within the resources that we have available.
Tim Roca (Macclesfield) (Lab)
My hon. Friend the Member for Chesterfield (Mr Perkins) made the important point that the new Government inherited £167 billion-worth of projects, none of which were rated green by the National Audit Office. Does the Secretary of State agree that more money is one part of the equation, but spending it well is the other part?
John Healey
Indeed; that is one reason why, early doors in Washington, the Prime Minister not only reaffirmed our iron-clad commitment to increasing defence spending to 2.5% but said that the strategic defence review comes first, as a pathway to 2.5%. That is exactly so that we can ensure that we increase what we spend, but also spend it better.
Dame Caroline Dinenage (Gosport) (Con)
In 2023, I asked the Secretary of State’s colleague, the right hon. Member for Houghton and Sunderland South (Bridget Phillipson), who is now the Education Secretary, how Labour’s plans for VAT on school fees would impact the continuity of education allowance for forces families. I was told that I
“need not be concerned about what we are discussing today.”—[Official Report, 11 January 2023; Vol. 725, c. 570.]
It is two years on and VAT on school fees goes live in January, but details of the rates of continuity of education allowance still have not been articulated to the forces families in my constituency. As the proud MP for a military constituency, I can tell the Secretary of State that I am concerned and my constituents are concerned. What is the plan to better communicate with them?
John Healey
I am sorry that our confirmation of the steps we are taking from January has not reached the hon. Lady. I will ensure that they are. There will be an uprating in the continuity of education allowance, which will ensure that our armed forces who take advantage of the allowance will be able to get up to 90% of the school fees they have to pay covered by that allowance, and that that takes into account any rise in school fees as a result of the VAT being levied.
Andrew Lewin (Welwyn Hatfield) (Lab)
The shadow Secretary of State referenced his so-called plan for defence spending back in April this year, a plan that the Institute for Government said did “not add up” and was “fictitious”. Does my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State agree that under this Labour Government we will never make funding commitments to our armed forces unless they are fully funded?
John Healey
I do. My hon. Friend is right. The Institute for Fiscal Studies described that so-called plan, the election pitch four weeks before the Conservatives called the election, as “misleading” and an empty promise. I give the House the undertaking that the plans we put in place will be openly discussed in this House. We will ensure that we can match the resources available to our plans.
Graham Leadbitter (Moray West, Nairn and Strathspey) (SNP)
Defence professionals across Whitehall will have their heads in their hands at this Government’s commitment to 2.5% at some point and when fiscal conditions permit. To fail to commit on defence investment with the multiple security threats facing us, from the Ukraine war to the middle east and a plethora of global cyber-threats, is strategically illiterate. Those threats will not wait for the Chancellor to get a grip, so what urgent steps will the Secretary of State take with the Chancellor to ensure at least the 2.5% promised by the Labour party on defence is spent when the threat assessment demands it, which is now, and not when the Chancellor feels it to be convenient?
John Healey
Mr Speaker, I am going to take what I can from the hon. Gentleman, which is an SNP welcome and an urging for an increase in defence spending. That will happen under a Labour Government. The Scottish workforce, the Scottish military and the Scottish-based military will play an important part in the defence of this country in the future.
Kevin Bonavia (Stevenage) (Lab)
We have heard some chutzpah from the shadow Secretary of State for Defence today. The Conservatives had 14 years to get to 2.5%, yet they demand it from us now. I am very pleased that the Secretary of State has set out how we will get towards 2.5% after our strategic defence review, but in the meantime we have to clear up the mess the previous Government left behind. Can he assure the House that he and his colleagues are working to clear up the waste and mismanagement they found when they came to the Ministry of Defence?
John Healey
I can indeed. It was one of my predecessors as Defence Secretary who admitted to this House that under 14 years of the previous Government the armed forces had been “hollowed out and underfunded”. That is no surprise when we look at the record of the Conservative Government when they came into office in 2010, compared with the record of this Government. Our first Budget has a £3 billion boost to defence. Their first Budget had a £2 billion real-terms cut. Our manifesto had a commitment to increase defence spending to 2.5%. Their first five years in government saw an 18% real cut in defence spending, which laid the foundations for the degradation and the poor state of our armed forces, and the poor state of the finances that we have now inherited.
Dr Andrew Murrison (South West Wiltshire) (Con)
The last Government extended to state school pupils the undoubted advantage of the combined cadet forces, which had been the almost exclusive prerogative of private school students. Why, then—
Mr Speaker
Order. May I ask the right hon. Gentleman to look at me while he is asking his question?
Dr Murrison
Why, then, Mr Speaker, did this Government decide, last week of all weeks, to defund combined cadet forces and thus remove the advantages that state school pupils are now enjoying as a result of decisions taken by the last Government?
John Healey
I simply do not recognise the right hon. Gentleman’s description of any decisions that we have taken, and it would run contrary to what he and I agree is the value of combined cadet forces. Most of us, in our constituencies, have contact and working relations with good cadet forces that give young people opportunities that they simply would not have at school or in any other walk of life. They have an important part to play in the future of individuals, and also in the wider understanding of our armed forces.
Gregor Poynton (Livingston) (Lab)
I welcome the Secretary of State’s recent announcement of the Armed Forces Commissioner Bill—a promise made and a promise being kept—but does he agree that this is just one part of the puzzle when it comes to showing that we can support our troops as they work to keep us safe?
John Healey
Indeed I do. My hon. Friend is a strong champion in his constituency in Scotland for the armed forces and veterans. I greatly valued the visit that I was able to make with him before the election to talk to veterans in his constituency and talk about our plans to increase support in respect of employment, mental health and housing for the future.
Suella Braverman (Fareham and Waterlooville) (Con)
One of the big achievements of the last 14 years was the delivery of the aircraft carriers, both of which are stationed in Portsmouth, near my constituency. However, it remains clear that they are underpowered. We need more Type 45s, more Type 26s and more Type 31s. If the Government are serious about the 2.5%, when will they set out their plan to invest in our Royal Navy and, in particular, our aircraft carriers, so that our carrier strike group can provide a world-class capability?
John Healey
The aircraft carriers constitute an important defence programme. We are considering the threats that we face and the future capabilities that we need as part of the strategic defence review, which will report in the spring, and we will follow that within our clear path and our commitment to spending 2.5% of GDP on defence, just as the Chief Secretary to the Treasury told the media yesterday.
Peter Swallow (Bracknell) (Lab)
Today is Armistice Day, which provides an important moment in which to pause and remember the huge amount that our armed forces have done to keep us safe. On this day, does the Secretary of State agree that we must not only set out our ironclad commitment to 2.5%, but support the armed forces, their families and our veterans?
John Healey
Indeed. The forces families who support those who put on the uniform are too often overlooked, which is one reason why we introduced legislation last week for an independent armed forces commissioner, as we promised to do at the election. The holder of this post will report directly to Parliament, will have access to personnel, sites and information, and will be able to look into the concerns of not just those who serve but the families who support them, in order to improve service life for the future.
John Glen (Salisbury) (Con)
May I commend to the Secretary of State the role of Ploughshare, which is used to deal with the increasing commercialisation of opportunities at the Defence Science and Technology Laboratory at Porton Down, in my constituency? In the context of the Ministry’s holistic review, which is now under way, will he undertake to ensure that that organisation is not held back from extending its opportunities to commercialise assets emerging from MOD research?
John Healey
One of the weaknesses in our system is that the often-excellent innovation, research and development does not get developed, invested in or commercialised, so potentially brilliant small companies do not grow and expand. I have to say to the right hon. Gentleman that I am not familiar with Planshare—[Interruption.] Ploughshare. I did not even hear the name correctly. If the right hon. Gentleman would like to write to me with some details, I would welcome his letter and certainly have a look.
Graeme Downie (Dunfermline and Dollar) (Lab)
Like others on this side of the House, I welcome the increase in defence spending that was announced in the Budget, after years of Tory cuts to our armed forces. Does the Secretary of State agree that we need to increase defence spending in response to emerging threats around the world, from Ukraine to the middle east and Asia-Pacific, and that the figure of 2.5% should be kept under review in the light of changing events around the world?
John Healey
Yes, I do. My hon. Friend makes the important point that the starting point for any defence planning must be the threats that we face. At the heart of any defence plans must be the people who serve and on whom we depend. I make that heartfelt point particularly forcefully today, on Armistice Day.
Richard Foord (Honiton and Sidmouth) (LD)
In 2021, when Boris Johnson was Prime Minister, defence spending in the UK was 2.3% of GDP. In 2022, following Russia’s full-scale invasion of Ukraine, defence spending was 2.3% of GDP. Now that an isolationist President-elect is about to go into the White House, defence spending is 2.3% of GDP. When will defence spending rise beyond 2.3% of GDP?
John Healey
I am not sure that I heard the hon. Gentleman welcome the fact that this Government have made a commitment to set a path to increase defence spending to 2.5% of GDP—a level that we have not had in this country for the last 14 years. Everyone agrees that an increase in defence spending is needed, and it is needed in order to deal with precisely the increasing threats that he cites.
Mr Mark Sewards (Leeds South West and Morley) (Lab)
I welcome the Opposition’s new-found enthusiasm for meeting the 2.5% defence spending target, especially given that they were not able to meet it even once in 14 years. I gently remind them that the last party in decades to meet the target was the Labour party. Does the Secretary of State agree that not only do we need to increase our spending to 2.5% of GDP, but we must remain steadfast in our support for the people of Ukraine to protect the entire continent of Europe?
John Healey
I do agree. I pay tribute to the last Government for ensuring that the UK led in providing support for Ukraine. As a new Government, we have been determined to continue that over the last four months. We have stepped up the military aid that we are supplying to Ukraine. We have sped up that support in a way that President Zelensky now cites as a model for other countries, and we are now spending more on military aid to Ukraine than ever before—£3 billion this year, next year and every year for as long as it takes, plus the £2.3 billion that we will be able to release from the frozen assets seized from the corrupt regime of Putin’s Russia.
Ben Obese-Jecty (Huntingdon) (Con)
I would urge the Secretary of State to exercise a little bit of caution when referring to defence spending under the last Labour Government. As someone who served in Iraq and Afghanistan, and who used some of the kit and equipment that was issued then, I know that there were some serious concerns at the time, particularly around the Snatch Land Rovers, for example. I spent a lot of time driving around Basra in one of those, and a lot of people lost their lives in those vehicles, so I would exercise a little caution and restraint.
My question is on a different topic: the CEA. How much will meeting the additional cost of VAT cost the MOD from its own budget?
John Healey
We will publish the financial figures for the CEA in due course and in the normal way.
On the hon. Gentleman’s previous point, I am very conscious of what he and those who served in Afghanistan and Iraq faced. I am very conscious that at times during the last Labour Government, as with any Government, the kit and equipment was lacking. That is why we tried to replace the vehicles, using urgent operational requirements at the time. Although we inevitably fell short in some areas, we were spending 2.5% of GDP on defence in 2010, when we were last in government, and the strength of the full-time British Army was over 100,000 soldiers.
John Slinger (Rugby) (Lab)
I associate myself with the comments of hon. and right hon. Members about Armistice Day. During the previous Government, the size of our armed forces shrank from 192,000 to 138,000—a 28% decrease. Does my right hon. Friend agree that it will take this Labour Government to put our defences back on the firm footing that we need in an increasingly dangerous world after many years of underinvestment?
John Healey
My hon. Friend is right. He is pointing to armed forces numbers and to the heart of a deep, long-running problem: the crisis in recruitment and retention in our forces. Recruitment targets were set every year for 14 years and missed every year for 14 years. We are taking steps to start to deal with this, including through the largest pay rise for our armed forces for over 20 years, so that I can now stand here as the first Defence Secretary to be able to say that all those in uniform are now being paid at least the national living wage. The introduction of an independent armed forces commissioner to improve service life will start to reset the nation’s contract with those who serve and the families that support them.
Jeremy Corbyn (Islington North) (Ind)
Last year, global arms expenditure reached $2.4 trillion, the highest level since the end of the cold war. UK arms expenditure went up, and it will no doubt go up a lot more because of the statement that the Secretary of State has made today. He rightly mentioned the conflict in Ukraine and the conflict in Gaza, and I think he could have mentioned Sudan as well. What actions are he and his Government taking to try to bring about a cessation of those conflicts and of global tension to allow defence expenditure to be reduced globally so that some of that money can be used to deal with the serious environmental and inequality issues that face this planet?
John Healey
We cannot wish away the threats, and we cannot wish away the conflicts, which is why it behoves any Government to ensure that we have the armed forces that are capable and equipped to deter those who would do us harm. On the question of conflicts, our support for Ukraine is steadfast. That conflict could be ended today if Putin withdrew from his illegal invasion of that sovereign country. On the middle east, we have argued and worked—in opposition and now in government—for a ceasefire in Gaza that would allow the immediate release of all hostages and the necessary flooding of humanitarian aid to Palestinian civilians. That is a first step towards a political process that must be directed towards a two-state solution, which is the only guarantee of long-term peace and security in that region.
Alistair Strathern (Hitchin) (Lab)
I had the privilege of starting my day in Shefford, just up the road from the Chicksands base in my constituency, marking Armistice Day with local veterans and the wider community. I welcome today’s commitment to ensure that we finally have a credible plan to get to spending 2.5% of GDP on defence, but as the Secretary of State has set out, it is about not just what we spend but how we spend it. The last Government spent millions on armed forces accommodation but all too often left the forces in my constituency in shocking situations. Will this Government be different in ensuring that our armed services can finally access the quality of accommodation they deserve on local bases?
John Healey
My hon. Friend is right. Time and again surveys of armed forces personnel show that poor-quality housing, which would be intolerable in civilian life, is cited as a reason for low morale and an intention to leave the forces early. This is an underlying problem that we will fix. We will not be able to do that overnight but we are determined that we will provide the accommodation and housing that our heroes in uniform have a right to expect.
David Reed (Exmouth and Exeter East) (Con)
I completely agree with the Defence Secretary that defence spending must increase to meet the threats we face. Given that the threats are visible and increasing, I found myself nodding in agreement with Admiral Lord West’s recent Guardian article, in which he said we should be bold and move directly to spending 3% of GDP on defence. Does the Defence Secretary agree with his revered Labour colleague’s assertion? If not, why not?
John Healey
In our first Budget, we increased next year’s defence spending by nearly £3 billion. We have a cast-iron commitment to increasing defence spending to 2.5% of GDP—a level that, over the past 14 years, Conservative Governments simply never matched.
Martin Wrigley (Newton Abbot) (LD)
The Secretary of State rightly refers to R&D spending and small firms, yet small firms in my constituency tell me that spending has dried up. Can he assure me that this is just a blip and that normal flow will resume as soon as possible?
John Healey
I think the shadow Secretary of State will agree that one of the necessary reforms to our procurement system, especially in an era in which innovation and technological development will be at an increasing premium, is to do much more to support small and innovative firms, perhaps including some in the hon. Gentleman’s constituency. We have to reform our procurement system to ensure that happens, and we will.
Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)
I thank the Secretary of State for his answers to all the questions.
I seek an assurance that our spending will focus not only on cyber-security, which is obviously essential, but on recruitment and retention. That spending must take account of the fact that, in April 2024, the Army fell below its target size for the first time since it was set, meaning that all three service branches are currently below target—the Army by 1%, the Royal Navy and the Royal Marines by 5%, and the RAF by 10%. Overall, the UK armed forces were 5,440 personnel, or 1%, below target. We need an assurance on recruitment.
John Healey
The hon. Gentleman sets out some of the details and dimensions of the crisis we face in recruitment and retention. We will start to turn that around, but we will not be able to do so straightaway. We have made a start with proper, fully funded pay awards for our armed forces this year. We are also making a start with new legislation to set up an armed forces commissioner to improve service life. We will take further steps to renew the nation’s contract on the support we can offer to those who serve and the families who support them.
Point of Order
(2 months ago)
Commons ChamberRead Full debate Read Hansard Text Watch Debate
James Cartlidge
On a point of order, Mr Speaker. You know how strongly the House feels about the Government’s decision on the Chagos islands. The Defence Secretary has made it very clear today that the Government know what the cost of that settlement will be to the Ministry of Defence. Many colleagues have repeatedly asked, through oral questions and written questions, what the cost will be. This is public money. Given that the Government refuse to tell us what the cost will be, can you advise us on how else we can probe to find out how much public money will be used?
Mr Speaker
The hon. Gentleman has certainly put that question on the record again, and I am sure the Secretary of State is listening very carefully. He may wish to respond—or perhaps not. I am sure the shadow Secretary of State will not give up at this stage and will find other ways to seek that information, which I am sure will be forthcoming at some point. I am sure he will continue to ask the question.
Rail Performance
(2 months ago)
Commons ChamberRead Full debate Read Hansard Text Watch Debate Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
The Secretary of State for Transport (Louise Haigh)
With permission, Mr Speaker, I shall make a statement about rail performance. I welcome the shadow Secretary of State for Transport, the hon. Member for Orpington (Gareth Bacon), to his place. I am sure the Opposition will be interested in what we have to update the House about this afternoon.
After 14 years of neglect, our inheritance was a railway that was failing its passengers, with cancellations at a 10-year high and punctuality that is consistently inconsistent across the network. Back in 2015, cancellations represented around 2% of all services, but thanks to our inheritance of extraordinary failure, that doubled to 4% when the last Government left office. The situation is holding back our economy, stifling our businesses and making life miserable for passengers. That is why, as part of this Government’s public service reform agenda, we are pushing ahead with the biggest overhaul of our railways in more than 30 years. I am grateful to you, Mr Speaker, for this opportunity to update the House on the progress we are making.
As Members will be aware, the Passenger Railway Services (Public Ownership) Bill is making its way through the other place. It will allow the Government to give three months’ notice to the first private train operating company to be taken into public ownership, which we will announce as soon as Royal Assent has been achieved. No one has ever pretended that public ownership alone is a silver bullet. The people impacted by delays and cancellations, who can no longer rely on the train to get where they need to, do not care who owns the trains—they care whether they are working or not. Under the model we inherited, no one could argue that they were working, so we will soon launch our consultation setting out plans for unification across the railway.
As part of that, Great British Railways, as the single directing mind, will plan services on a whole-system basis, to better deliver for passengers and freight customers, unlock growth and provide the services a modern, efficient railway should. That will lay the groundwork for the introduction of the railways Bill, later this Session, which will establish Great British Railways and end the fragmentation that has hampered our railways for over 30 years of privatisation.
But we do not want to wait for legislation. The Government are already making improvements and taking steps to deliver reform across the railways. I have appointed Laura Shoaf as chair of shadow Great British Railways, bringing together Network Rail, the publicly owned train operating companies and my Department to drive better integration now. Working with operators already in public ownership, we are seeking to drive savings by eliminating duplication and deliver the improvements that passengers want, such as allowing tickets to be accepted across those TOCs in public ownership during disruption.
Shadow GBR gives us the tools to assess the structure of the timetable, question resource plans and review performance measures and targets. We are using those tools to unlock the punctuality and reliability that passengers deserve across the country. For example, Southeastern is now performing much better. Its cancellations are low, with its punctuality ranking among the top five operators contracted to my Department, and that level of service will increase by 44 additional trains per day when the timetable is updated in December. That is what shadow Great British Railways is delivering now.
We are demonstrating what integration between track and train can deliver for passengers. Take those who rely on Euston station, for example. Indecision on HS2 left passengers with fewer platforms and greater overcrowding, victims of the so-called “Euston dash”. Convening Network Rail and train operators at Euston in the interest of passengers is an excellent example of the benefits that our reform agenda can achieve. Euston now not only has an integrated station management team, but a 100-day plan of rapid improvements that puts the interests of passengers first and individual organisations second. Platform announcements are made earlier, crowding has been reduced and, yes, the advertising screen has been temporarily switched off.
Delays and cancellations were not the only inheritance. For two years, strike followed strike, and disruption followed disruption, in the longest industrial dispute on our railways. I have made it my priority to get around the table, reversing the previous Government’s antagonistic approach by resetting industrial relations and settling the pay disputes that saw the country grinding to a halt. I am working with the sector to speed up training and accelerate the driver recruitment pipeline, which will reduce the railway’s reliance on rest day working agreements and lower the burden on taxpayers. Settling this saga allows us to move forward with long-overdue negotiations on workforce reform, bringing our railways into the 21st century. That is what moving fast and fixing things looks like.
We are putting passengers first and, today, I can inform the House that since the resolution of the LNER driver dispute, we have seen green shoots emerging, with the number of LNER cancellations falling. Not only have cancellations due to a lack of driver resource dropped to near zero as a direct consequence of getting around the table with unions, but revenue is £15 million higher for the recent rail periods this year versus the same periods last year. Overall cancellations are down from 7% to 5%, and LNER has run 100 more train services in the last four weeks than in the comparable period last year.
Elsewhere, passengers will see a tangible impact on reliability on Northern Rail trains. Thanks to our agreement on rest day working, hundreds more driver shifts have been covered this weekend, cutting cancellations now and in the long run. At TransPennine Express, operator-caused, on-the-day cancellations averaged around 2% in the last year, compared to 5% in the year before it was taken into public ownership. On CrossCountry, we took immediate steps to implement a remedial plan to reduce its cancellations and get services back on track. Its reduced timetable has brought greater stability, and I expect even greater reliability in the long term as the full timetable returns today.
Those are early signs of what happens when a Government get a grip and put passengers at the heart of decision making. Resetting industrial relations is already having a direct impact on better services, but it will take time to pass all the benefits on to passengers. We have to be clear-eyed about the problems, but we are committed to full transparency. I can announce today that we will be fully transparent with passengers by displaying performance data at stations to demonstrate how the railway is working and to allow the public to hold us to account as we deliver change. That is important, because the railway is a promise—a promise to passengers from the moment they buy a ticket that the train will arrive on time, as the timetable says.
While there are encouraging signs, I am not naive to the reality that passengers will see only a broken promise so long as the departure board shows trains delayed and services cancelled. That is why I have approached the situation with the urgency it demands, including focusing on performance today; bringing together industry to make it clear that improvements that can be made now must be made now; and using every tool at our disposal to drive improvements as fast as possible.
At the same time, the root of the problem grows deeper. Decades of muddled decision making have left the railway fragmented. We have tolerated an unworkable system of track in one organisation and trains in another for decades too long. This Government will turn the page on that chapter of fragmentation. I have wasted no time in kick-starting the long-term reform that our railway desperately needs. We have wasted no time in bringing train operating companies under public ownership. As today’s figures show, we have wasted no time in getting around the table with unions and making change happen now. That is what moving fast and fixing things looks like, and I commend this statement to the House.
Gareth Bacon (Orpington) (Con)
I thank the Secretary of State for her statement and for sharing an advance copy. I agree that rail performance is a key concern to passengers throughout the country, and it is a fair criticism to say that several operators have consistently underperformed. That is why, when we were in government, we took action to improve performance on our railways, investing more than £100 billion to operate and enhance our railways since 2010, and electrifying more than 1,200 miles of track—compared to just 63 miles under the last Labour Government.
I am glad that the Government are taking forward the framework offered in the previous Conservative Government’s Williams-Shapps review. Having a more joined-up rail network should indeed deliver key improvements. However, it is disappointing that the Government have progressed with their plans for the effective nationalisation of the rail operators by ending private rail operator franchising, despite all the evidence pointing to the fact that that will be contrary to the aim of improving rail performance.
We know that while in some cases it has been necessary in the short term to bring rail operators into public control, it has not made the difference in performance that the Government would have us believe. It takes only a cursory glance at passenger rail performance statistics to see that some of the rail operators operating under public control have done little or nothing to improve cancellations or delays in relation to other operators. For example, the Secretary of State mentioned TransPennine Express and a decrease in cancellations since the operator was taken into public ownership, but she made no reference to delays. Data from the Office for Rail and Road show that in the four years prior to the train operator coming under public control, passengers faced an average of 8,130 delay minutes per month. From period 2 of 2023-24, when the operator was brought into public ownership, up to period 4 of 2024-25, average monthly delays have increased by 1,677 minutes, to 9,807 a month. In addition, for the year ’23-24, data shows that train operators run by private companies in England had an average on time rate of 64.36%. For train operators in public control, by contrast, the average was 57.7%—a difference of just under seven percentage points.
Public ownership is not the panacea that the right hon. Lady claims, so it is disingenuous for the Government to argue that wholesale public control of rail operation will do everything to improve performance, particularly for operators that are already performing well. Under the Government’s plans to end private rail operator franchising, the first contracts set to expire and be picked up by the Government are some of the highest performing franchises. The Government risk making the mistake of taking credit for comparatively strong performance, which will occur not as a result of their measures but as a result of the successes of the previous private franchising. That would mean the Government drawing the wrong conclusions from their actions, and it would have implications for future decision making.
It should be appreciated that the role of open access operators has been one of the greatest success stories within our rail network. It is therefore incumbent on the Government to provide greater clarity to the sector on how their plans for the rail network will impact on open access operators. It is also essential that the Secretary of State finally clarifies the long-term plan for rolling stock under the Government’s measures.
I appreciate that in Labour’s brave new world, all decisions are reflected through the ideological prism of “public good, private bad”, but there is a fundamental risk that the Government are taking ideological action to the long-term detriment of rail performance. Among our counterparts in Europe, it is widely acknowledged that rail privatisation has been successful in increasing passenger numbers, encouraging investment and controlling costs. In Italy, for example, prices have reduced by 31%, and Austria has witnessed a 41% increase in service frequency. There is a serious risk that the Government’s plans will take us backwards on those key areas without offering any promise of improvement on performance, or improved journeys or fares for passengers.
We all fully acknowledge the difficulties facing our railways, and nobody should accept poor performance —we have, unfortunately, seen that in some areas of our network—but merely enacting demonstrative but counterintuitive measures designed to communicate action is no substitute for making measured and pragmatic choices. For example, the Government and the Secretary of State have chosen to offer inflation-busting pay rises with no working practice reform in exchange. Without substantial working practice reform, it is deeply unlikely that the cost of the pay deals will be offset by improved performance, and the failure to introduce working practice reform will mean continued performance difficulties on our railways.
Can the Secretary of State offer a guarantee today that ending private rail franchising without implementing working practice reform will lead to demonstrably improved performance? If she cannot offer that guarantee, the Government should shelve the ideology and take a step back to pause and examine whether their package of measures will truly improve rail performance. It surely makes more sense to learn from the performance statistics; to understand from the experience of the continent and our past the improvements that the private sector can bring; and to prioritise the practical over the ideological.
Louise Haigh
I am grateful to the shadow Secretary of State for acknowledging that we provided the statement in advance, and I suggest that next time he reads it before he responds. He will have heard me say that public ownership is not a silver bullet, hence why we are setting out a substantial package of reforms. As I also mentioned, that includes substantial workforce reform, including developing training policies—that is one of the ways in which the recruitment of drivers has been really held back—and reducing reliance on rest day working agreements.
The shadow Minister might also want to check the latest statistics on TransPennine Express. It had the largest increase in punctuality of any operator contracted to my Department, including all those in private ownership. We have been clear that open access should continue where it does not abstract revenue from the overall network and where there is capacity. There have been good examples, such as Lumo and Grand Central, and we are very happy to continue working with them. We will publish a long-term rolling stock plan in due course.
Madam Deputy Speaker (Ms Nusrat Ghani)
I call the Chair of the Transport Committee.
Ruth Cadbury (Brentford and Isleworth) (Lab)
The Transport Secretary’s statement is hugely welcome. Bringing privately owned train operating companies into public ownership as well as setting up GBR will inevitably add to her Department’s workload, so what preparations is she making to manage that additional workload?
Louise Haigh
I am grateful that my hon. Friend is concerned about my work-life balance—so am I. We are staffing up the operator of last resort, as it is currently known—we will shortly change its name, as it will no longer be the operator of last resort—and the Department has significantly increased its capability. Under the previous Administration, no one in government took responsibility for the running of the railways. We are taking a very deliberately different approach and, as passengers-in-chief, we will ensure that both the operator of last resort and the Department are sufficiently staffed up to manage the quick and successful transition of franchises into public ownership.
Madam Deputy Speaker (Ms Nusrat Ghani)
I call the Liberal Democrat spokesperson.
Mr Paul Kohler (Wimbledon) (LD)
I thank the Secretary of State for advance sight of her statement. I also welcome the new shadow Secretary of State, the hon. Member for Orpington (Gareth Bacon), to his position.
The Lib Dems welcome the Secretary of State’s statement that performance is improved, and commuters and businesses are relieved that industrial action has been curtailed. It is disappointing, however, that the unions were not required to agree any meaningful improvements to productivity as part of the settlement. Clearly, we are not yet out of the woods—or perhaps I should say the tunnel. Under the Conservatives, delays, cancellations and overcrowding became commonplace. Last year, more than 55,000 rush hour trains were either partly or fully cancelled—a 10% rise on the previous year, and the worst of any year since 2019. Although the latest news is welcome, there are many miles left to go on this journey. The Government’s policy of nationalisation is, as the Secretary of State herself concedes, no silver bullet. Earlier this year, the Office of Rail and Road found that four of the eight least reliable operators, with the highest cancellation rates, were public, while the three most reliable operators, with the lowest cancellation rates, were private.
I have three questions for the Secretary of State. First, what steps is she taking to ensure that the worst, rather than the best, private operators are nationalised first? Secondly, where a private operator’s performance is of a higher standard than that in the public sector, will she consider extending its contract? Finally, given the still shocking level of accessibility on much of the network, will she urgently provide an update on when the stalled Access for All programme will be back on track?
Louise Haigh
To confirm, we are working with the trade unions at the moment on productivity improvements. We are clear that some of the practices in place on the railways are not acceptable or fit for modern and efficient railways. In the pay deal, there was a side letter and agreement to work through training improvements, and we want to ensure that that is delivered. The previous Government’s approach meant that they not only failed to deliver any workforce reform improvements, but presided over the longest industrial dispute in our railways’ history, costing the taxpayer and passengers hundreds of millions of pounds.
The hon. Gentleman is right to point out that cancellations are high in the publicly owned TOCs. That is a result not least of the fact that the ones that are in public ownership were already the worst performing, and we need to look at how they have improved under public ownership. The real benefits will be brought about under Great British Railways, when we will be truly able to integrate track and train and deliver those improvements. We will set out the schedule for bringing the private TOCs into public ownership once Royal Assent has been given to the Passenger Railway Services (Public Ownership) Bill, but the right balance must be struck between performance and return for the taxpayer, because we are spending hundreds of millions of pounds in dividend payouts and management fees.
The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right to mention the Access for All programme and accessibility, which has not been good enough under Network Rail. I am happy to write to him about specific stations in the programme.
