Oral Answers to Questions
(1 year ago)
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Lillian Jones (Kilmarnock and Loudoun) (Lab)
Sojan Joseph (Ashford) (Lab)
The Secretary of State for Health and Social Care (Wes Streeting)
This Government inherited an intolerable situation in A&E, where over a decade of Tory failures left patients waiting in pain. We are doing the hard work needed to start repairing that damage. Our new urgent and emergency care plan is backed by nearly £450 million, which will mean 800,000 fewer A&E patients waiting more than four hours this year, new urgent treatment centres, mental health crisis centres and almost 400 replacement ambulances. Those are just some of the steps that we are taking to rebuild our national health service.
Lillian Jones
I welcome the progress this UK Labour Government have made in reducing A&E waits in England. That sadly contrasts with a crisis in Scotland, where recent figures revealed 2,472 Scots waited over eight hours to be seen. Jackie Baillie rightly warned that
“Lives are being put at risk”
under the SNP, and it has been years since the Scottish Government last met any of their targets. Does the Secretary of State agree that only Labour in Westminster and in Holyrood has a serious plan to back NHS staff and cut waiting times?
Wes Streeting
I agree with my hon. Friend. There is no sign of the SNP Members this morning. They have obviously clocked off for the summer—or maybe they are just sparing their blushes, because the party has been in power for close to two decades in Scotland and has been steadily driving the NHS into the ground. The chair of BMA Scotland has said,
“the NHS is dying before our eyes”
with the SNP. It is on its fifth NHS recovery plan in less than four years. Scotland needs a new direction with a Scottish Labour Government. Working in partnership, we will fix the NHS across the United Kingdom and make it fit for the future.
Sojan Joseph
One of my first visits after being elected last year was to the A&E department at the William Harvey hospital in my constituency, where 19 patients were being treated in the corridors and others faced long waits for treatment. I therefore welcome the progress that has been made so far on reducing A&E waiting times. However, too many people end up at A&Es like the one at the William Harvey because they have no other option. What are the Government doing to increase care options in local communities, including the use of virtual wards to ensure that more people are treated closer to home and that patients in A&E are those in an emergency?
Wes Streeting
My hon. Friend is absolutely right. It is unacceptable that corridor care became the norm under the Conservatives. We will not accept it as normal; it is not acceptable. Ahead of this winter, we will require local NHS systems to develop and test plans to significantly increase the number of people receiving urgent care services outside hospital, including more paramedic-led care in the community, more patients seen by urgent community response teams, and better use of virtual wards. Together, we will improve our emergency services and make sure that people get the right care in the right place and at the right time.
David Simmonds (Ruislip, Northwood and Pinner) (Con)
The Government have spoken passionately about how minor injuries units, such as the one at Mount Vernon hospital in my constituency, help to take the pressure off A&E by diverting less urgent cases for treatment elsewhere. I am grateful to the Secretary of State for his time for a brief discussion about that last week. Will he now respond to the 25,000 local people and my constituency neighbours, including the right hon. Member for Hayes and Harlington (John McDonnell), who are joining my campaign to save the minor injuries unit? Will he intervene with the Hillingdon hospitals NHS foundation trust to prevent the unit’s closure?
Wes Streeting
Configuration of services is a matter for local commissioners. However, let me take this opportunity to reassure the hon. Gentleman that I have taken into account representations received from my right hon. Friend the Member for Hayes and Harlington (John McDonnell), as well as his letter. I apologise to him for the delay in response, but I assure him that he will get one.
Mr Will Forster (Woking) (LD)
In June, just 66% of patients admitted to Woking’s local A&E at St Peter’s hospital were seen within four hours. That is way below both the national target and the national average of 76%. Will the Secretary of State agree to investigate that to find out why my constituents of Woking are facing such lengthy and unreasonable waiting times?
Wes Streeting
As the hon. Gentleman knows, urgent and emergency care services have been struggling right across the country, but he is right to identify where there are serious and significant variations in performance. One of the focuses of this Government is to try to reduce unwarranted variation from one NHS provider to another, so that we get consistently good standards of care across the country. I commit to write to him to further explain why there are particular challenges in his area and what we can do together to help resolve them.
Dr Caroline Johnson (Sleaford and North Hykeham) (Con)
Respiratory syncytial virus—RSV—is a common reason for attendance at A&E and admission to hospital among older people, and I have raised this repeatedly. Last week, the Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation recommended that the RSV vaccine programme should be extended to the over-80s and those living in adult residential care homes. Can the Minister confirm that these vaccines will be available in time for this winter season?
Wes Streeting
I can certainly reassure the shadow Minister on this. The Minister for Public Health has already accepted that recommendation and is working at pace on implementation. May I wish the hon. Lady well in the Opposition reshuffle?
Laura Kyrke-Smith (Aylesbury) (Lab)
The Minister for Secondary Care (Karin Smyth)
The 10-year health plan sets out ambitious plans to boost mental health support across the country, including for women during the perinatal period. During the year to April 2025, a record 64,805 women accessed maternal mental health services or specialist community perinatal mental health services, such as those at the Whiteleaf centre in Aylesbury. The Department for Education is also investing £500 million to roll out Best Start family hubs to all local authorities in England, which will also support new mums.
Laura Kyrke-Smith
I am really grateful to the Minister for her answer and for her focus on this. I would like to ask about midwives, who do incredible work supporting parents and babies, including identifying and supporting women who are facing mental health challenges. We desperately need more of them, yet the Royal College of Midwives has found that eight out of 10 student midwives who are due to qualify this year are not confident that they will find jobs. What steps is the Minister taking to ensure that newly qualified midwives are able to find work?
Karin Smyth
I recognise my hon. Friend’s great work in this place to support women on this issue. We recognise that newly qualified midwives are experiencing challenges in gaining that first role. That is partly due to the record number of midwives in post and to better retention rates. NHS England is working with employers, universities and regional midwifery leads to help midwives find those roles after qualification and to transition into workforce, and we will keep a close eye on that with them.
Alex Easton (North Down) (Ind)
In assessing the impact of the 10-year plan on perinatal health for England, can the Minister assure us that the lessons learned will be shared across the rest of the United Kingdom, to enhance care quality and reduce regional disparities, especially in Northern Ireland?
Karin Smyth
The hon. Gentleman makes an excellent point about the important need to share the learning across the United Kingdom, and I will make sure that we do indeed make efforts to do that.
Jess Brown-Fuller (Chichester) (LD)
Over the weekend, The Guardian reported that the number of women dying in the perinatal period had risen sharply since 2015. Families that have been failed, and health professionals feel that whether it is perinatal depression or unsafe births, lessons are not being learned and the same errors are repeated in review after review. Alongside the inquiry that the Secretary of State has launched, will the Government immediately implement every action from the Ockenden review and put an end to this national scandal in maternity service?
Karin Smyth
The hon. Lady has raised a really important issue. She highlights the work that the Secretary of State is putting in place to address these issues and finally bring all that together to produce a plan that will assure people, and we are working at pace to ensure that those recommendations are implemented.
Greg Smith (Mid Buckinghamshire) (Con)
The Minister for Care (Stephen Kinnock)
This Government aim to establish a neighbourhood health centre in every community by 2035. We are starting in areas of greatest need where healthy life expectancy is lowest, including rural towns and communities with higher deprivation levels. Planning work has already begun. The hon. Gentleman will know that I updated colleagues yesterday in a “dear colleague” letter around integrated care boards and local authorities being invited to apply to participate in the national neighbourhood health implementation programme.
Greg Smith
I am grateful to the Minister for that answer. He will have heard me put the case for Long Crendon many times over many years, and given the proposals for neighbourhood health centres in the 10-year plan, Long Crendon offers a very quick win. The community has the land, the planning permission and a GP practice willing to serve there; it just does not have the funds for the bricks and mortar to build it. Can I ask the Minister to meet me and the members of Long Crendon parish council who are leading on this, so that the Government can get a quick win on neighbourhood health centres?
Stephen Kinnock
The hon. Member is clearly a doughty campaigner—I am sure that will mean something good will happen for him in the reshuffle that we are all watching with bated breath. I am happy to have that discussion with him. As I said, the neighbourhood health process will be driven primarily by identifying areas where healthy life expectancy is lowest and deprivation is highest. Clearly, he makes a case for his area, and I would be happy to have that discussion with him.
Mr Speaker
The question is on Long Crendon, so we will see how Josh Fenton-Glynn does.
Josh Fenton-Glynn (Calder Valley) (Lab)
Before I start, I pay tribute to the shadow Secretary of State, the right hon. Member for Melton and Syston (Edward Argar), who faces his last set of Health questions. He is an incredibly kind man—we spoke after the loss of my brother—and a fantastic shadow Secretary of State. I am not sure how they will replace him.
One of the key shifts we need to see in the 10-year plan is from hospital to the community. Key to keeping people out of hospital is tackling the dental deserts, with dental problems being the biggest cause of children aged five to nine going to A&E. Will the Minister assure me that the new neighbourhood health centres will include dentistry—
Mr Speaker
Order. That is not linked to the question. That is why I was really bothered when I called the hon. Gentleman.
Mr Richard Quigley (Isle of Wight West) (Lab)
The Minister for Care (Stephen Kinnock)
Through the National Institute for Health and Care Research, the Department is committed to finding new ways of tackling eating disorders through research. We are supporting research projects, including the eating disorders genetics initiative—one of the largest studies of its kind—and have a £4.25 million collaboration with other UK research funders to build new partnerships in eating disorder research. We are also strengthening support for people with eating disorders by recruiting more mental health workers, expanding mental health support in schools and embedding it in young futures hubs.
Mr Quigley
Eating disorders cost the UK an estimated £9 billion each year, yet research into these serious conditions receives just 1% of all mental health research funding. That is despite eating disorders affecting around 9% of people with mental health conditions, the consequences of which are delayed diagnosis and treatment and often lengthy hospital admissions. Will the Minister agree to meet me and the eating disorder charity Beat to discuss how the Government can break this cycle and ensure that eating disorder research receives the attention and investment that it urgently needs?
Stephen Kinnock
I know that this subject is close to my hon. Friend’s heart, and I pay tribute to him for his work on it. We recognise the devastating impact that an eating disorder can have, and the earlier the treatment is provided, the greater the chance of recovery. The Department continues to work closely with NHS England, which is now refreshing guidance on children and young people’s eating disorders. I commend the work of Beat, and I would be happy to discuss this further with my hon. Friend.
Mr Gregory Campbell (East Londonderry) (DUP)
The eating disorder issue is escalating, as the Minister rightly points out. Will he agree to hold discussions and consultations with the devolved structures in Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales, so this issue goes to the top of the list of issues that have not really been dealt with in the past but need dealing with now?
Stephen Kinnock
We remain in close contact with all our colleagues in all the devolved Administrations. I will certainly be following up with officials as we develop the research programmes that we are working on, and as we integrate eating disorders into the broader work we are doing around mental health. Getting 8,500 more mental health workers and creating Young Futures hubs and mental health crisis centres is just some of the work that this Government are doing on this important issue.
Graham Stuart (Beverley and Holderness) (Con)
The Minister for Care (Stephen Kinnock)
The right hon. Member’s constituents can access urgent eyecare services from Hull University teaching hospitals NHS trust 24 hours a day, seven days a week and from a range of high-street optical practices locally. Integrated care boards are responsible for commissioning primary and secondary eyecare services to meet local need. As part of our 10-year plan, we are keen to explore how we can make best use of our primary eyecare workforce as we consider shifting more healthcare into the community.
Graham Stuart
Would it was so. My constituent Scott Young, a 34-year-old father-to-be from Beverley, was left permanently blind in one eye after NHS failures, including a two-month delay to urgent surgery following a diabetic haemorrhage, which the trust now blames on admin mistakes. When the same issue threatened his remaining sight, identical delays occurred until I intervened. Yet the Hull University teaching hospitals NHS trust response contained factual errors, including claiming that a heart condition delayed surgery even though it had not been diagnosed when the delay occurred. Does the Minister agree that such failings demand accountability, and what steps can he take to improve the administrative processes within our hospitals?
Stephen Kinnock
I am very sorry to hear of Scott’s experience. What the right hon. Gentleman has outlined is clearly unacceptable. I will absolutely follow up on that issue with officials and report back to him. We cannot allow that sort of poor performance to exist, and those responsible must be held to account.
Gareth Snell (Stoke-on-Trent Central) (Lab/Co-op)
The Minister for Secondary Care (Karin Smyth)
My hon. Friend will know that trusts have responsibility for securing—using the approved procurement framework—an appropriate electronic patient record system that delivers all the core capabilities set out in the digital capabilities framework. Since 2022, £1.9 billion has been invested in digital transformation, including in the roll-out of EPRs to NHS trusts that do not have one and in support to optimise existing ones.
Gareth Snell
The Minister will be aware that my hon. Friend the Member for Stafford (Leigh Ingham) and I have been working on a replacement system for the University Hospitals of North Midlands NHS Trust in north Staffordshire, which would improve public and patient experience, and productivity, at those hospitals. Will the Minister meet us so that we can consider how further to unlock that funding to improve productivity and patient experience in good time?
Karin Smyth
I commend my hon. Friend, and our hon. Friend the Member for Stafford (Leigh Ingham), for their diligent work with their trust and local system. Progress is being made on that EPR, which will have huge benefits. I will ensure that he has a clear outline of progress to the final planned operating of the go-live date for that issue. I am happy to meet him.
Mike Martin (Tunbridge Wells) (LD)
Blocked beds cost Pembury hospital £18,000 every night, yet discharge teams have to manually phone care homes to place people there. My constituent Debbie has created a dashboard—it is basically like Skyscanner—to accelerate discharges by matching discharged patients to care beds. It has already received seed funding of £200,000 from Kent county council, and could save up to £7 million a year in Pembury alone. Will the Minister meet me and Debbie to discuss that idea?
Karin Smyth
The hon. Gentleman highlights the serious problem of staff operating in an analogue age in the NHS, which we keenly highlighted in the 10-year plan. We want to move the system into a more digital age. We would be very happy to hear more about the scheme that he outlines and the great work that staff are doing to get over some of the problems that they are working with.
Ms Julie Minns (Carlisle) (Lab)
My constituent Lee Armstrong contacted 111 when he was suffering from an Addisonian crisis. Lee and his partner provided full details about his condition to 111, and when his condition worsened, they called 999, but what neither Lee nor his partner knew was that the electronic record details given to 111 would not be available to 999, and neither would his patient records. As a result, the ambulance was not dispatched with the urgency required and Lee died. Will the Minister set out how the improvements in the digitisation of electronic records will cover the integration of the 111 and 999 services so that lives like Lee’s can be saved?
Karin Smyth
My hon. Friend outlines a horrific case in her constituency, where she has been a fantastic campaigner since last year. Information sharing between 111 and 999 already exists in many places. We want standards in place to ensure that that happens safely across the country. That is a key part of what we are trying to do in our 10-year plan by bringing together single patient records and records within systems. I am very happy to follow up with her in more detail on the case she mentions, if that would be helpful.
Edward Morello (West Dorset) (LD)
Many GPs say that their buildings are not fit for purpose and lack digital infrastructure. Without fully integrated electronic patient records and better systems, including the electronic prescription service across all hospitals and community trusts, we risk wasting time and money while increasing pressure on frontline staff. Will the Minister outline the steps being taken to full integrate the electronic prescription service across all settings in Dorset?
Karin Smyth
The hon. Member highlights the importance of getting this right not only from hospital to discharge but, crucially, in primary care, where 90% of patient contacts happen across the system. That is why a central plank of our 10-year plan has been moving the entire system from the analogue to the digital age. We have allocated £10 billion, particularly in this spending review, to address this issue and make sure we get this right for the system and for patients.
Kate Osamor (Edmonton and Winchmore Hill) (Lab/Co-op)
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Health and Social Care (Ashley Dalton)
The 10-year health plan sets out how we are transforming our approach to preventing ill health through a set of ambitious measures that make the healthy choice the easy choice. Among those measures is our mandatory partnership with food businesses, through which we will make shopping baskets across the country healthier, and our landmark Tobacco and Vapes Bill, to help deliver our ambition for a smoke-free UK by gradually ending the sale of tobacco products across the country.
Kate Osamor
I thank the Minister for her response. Sickle cell disease disproportionately affects people from African and Caribbean backgrounds, yet systematic inequalities persist. A recent NHS Race and Health Observatory report reveals that research funding for cystic fibrosis is 2.5 times higher, despite similar prevalence. Will the Minister commit to addressing the chronic underfunding and ensure equitable investment in research and workforce specialist training for sickle cell patients across the NHS?
Ashley Dalton
The Government are committed to addressing health inequalities experienced by people living with rare conditions such as sickle cell disorder. Pioneering research is a cross-cutting theme of the UK rare diseases framework, but we know that there are a small number of rare conditions with a large amount of research, while many more have little or no funded research. I want to confirm for my hon. Friend that the National Institute for Health and Care Research welcomes funding applications for research into all and any aspects of health or care, including sickle cell disorder.
Joe Robertson (Isle of Wight East) (Con)
The Minister talks about her 10-year health plan, with “Fit for the Future” splashed across the front cover, but really, it is a plan from “Back to the Future”, with no new ideas that have not been discussed since Alan Milburn tried to do this in the year 2000. It will only be successful if the Government deliver, but there is no detail in there on how they will deliver. Can the Minister help us: how will she deliver on the priorities, including preventive ill health? Where can we read the “how”, or is it all still fermenting in Ministers’ heads?
Ashley Dalton
We are already delivering. As I have said, the Tobacco and Vapes Bill is making its way through Parliament at the moment. We are tackling the obesity crisis through tackling junk food advertising to children. We are working on school food standards, and we are also bringing in rules around planning for junk food establishments near schools. We are supporting people to make healthier choices when it comes to alcohol, and we are tackling air pollution, which particularly affects working-class communities. The list goes on and on, and I would be more than happy to give the hon. Member another list if he needs one.
Dr Allison Gardner (Stoke-on-Trent South) (Lab)
Urinary tract infections are estimated to impact on the lives of up to 5 million women and girls. In 2023-24, there were over 679,000 hospital admissions, and in 2023, 4,323 deaths. Outdated diagnostic techniques and inadequate treatment for acute UTIs results in the condition becoming recurrent and chronic. Better education of clinical staff and updated guidelines, diagnostics and treatments can help prevent the spiral of ill health that destroys so many women’s lives. Will the Secretary of State engage with me and other campaigners to recognise chronic UTIs as a condition and work to prevent this horrendous, pervasive illness?
Ashley Dalton
I thank my hon. Friend for her question and commend the work she has done on this issue and her wonderful contribution to the Westminster Hall debate that I responded to recently. It is a really important issue and something we are keen to explore further. The Secretary of State and I would be delighted to meet with her and other campaigners.
Sir Andrew Mitchell (Sutton Coldfield) (Con)
The NHS 10-year plan identifies antimicrobial resistance as
“a critical threat requiring urgent action.”
AMR kills 35,000 people in the UK every year and 5 million globally and rising. Why on earth are the Government covertly axing the Fleming Fund without telling Parliament? Will the Secretary of State publish an impact assessment of the effect of the Fleming Fund’s closure on our domestic health security?
Ashley Dalton
There is nothing covert about the decisions on the Fleming Fund. It has been perfectly open and clear that the existing funding has been cut. Having said that, the work and partnerships that have been developed on AMR continue. The UK continues to be a global leader on this issue, and our ambassador, Dame Sally, continues to do sterling work on it.
Dr Caroline Johnson (Sleaford and North Hykeham) (Con)
Last month, the Government published their 10-year plan. It took a year to write, and it contains promises to make even more plans—a cancer plan, a maternity and neonatal plan, a workforce plan and an HIV plan—which we are still waiting for. Careful planning is important, but taking too long will delay improvements in care, so when do the Government expect to publish those plans and to start delivering?
Ashley Dalton
We are already delivering. The hon. Lady is absolutely right to identify that a number of plans are being brought forward. We take this matter very seriously, and we want to ensure that we get it right. We plan: we plan so that we perform effectively, and we plan for success. The national cancer plan will be coming later this year, and I am sure that we will be able to outline a timetable for all other plans. I assure her that planning is not doing nothing; planning is making sure that we get this right and that we deliver.
Josh Dean (Hertford and Stortford) (Lab)
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Health and Social Care (Ashley Dalton)
I thank my hon. Friend for raising this issue and congratulate his constituent David Kiddie on the 190-mile walk he completed earlier this year to raise awareness and funds for those with MLD and their families. The Government are committed to listening to those with MLD and their families and acting with compassion and care to support them. The UK National Screening Committee, which advises the Government on all screening matters, is consulting on the outcomes of an evidence review looking at whether to screen for MLD.
Josh Dean
In 2024, two-year-old Lily Stock was diagnosed with metachromatic leukodystrophy, a rare and progressive disease that will, in her family’s words, “slowly take Lily away”. Libmeldy, a lifesaving gene therapy, is available through the NHS, but I understand that it must be administered before symptoms develop. Sadly, that means it is too late for Lily to benefit from the treatment. Emily and Sean, Lily’s parents, are campaigning for MLD screening to be added to the heel-prick test on newborns, so that MLD can be identified early and treated effectively and no family will have to go through this devastating experience. Will the Minister and her officials look into adding MLD screening to the heel-prick test, and will she and the Secretary of State join me to meet Lily’s family and hear their story at first hand?
Ashley Dalton
I thank my hon. Friend for raising this matter. Lily’s story really lays bare the heartbreak that rare diseases can bring and the vital role that early diagnosis can play. I am happy to meet my hon. Friend and Lily’s family. May I suggest that we meet when the UK National Screening Committee has completed its review, so that the Government have received advice on this important matter? We can then discuss that advice together.
Carla Lockhart (Upper Bann) (DUP)
In my constituency, there is a little boy called Teddy, who was diagnosed with MLD—one of the most cruel and degenerative diseases, which is now treatable if diagnosed at birth. Teddy was diagnosed too late because there was no screening. He has lost his ability to walk and talk, and he even fights to smile—a battle that no child should ever have to face. The Minister knows that the treatment is now available, yet MLD has not been added to the simple heel-prick screening tests. Will she also agree to meet Teddy’s family when she meets the family mentioned by the hon. Member for Hertford and Stortford (Josh Dean) to discuss this issue? It is too late for Teddy, but for so many other children it is not.
Ashley Dalton
As the hon. Lady points out, for Teddy and Lily it is sadly too late for that treatment. That is why we are looking at screening. I would be delighted to meet with Teddy’s family once we have the outcome from the screening review.
Josh Babarinde (Eastbourne) (LD)
The Minister for Secondary Care (Karin Smyth)
The Department has published guidance that trusts are expected to follow to manage the provision of car-parking spaces for patients, hospital users and staff. Responsibility for hospital car parks lies with each individual trust, and provision must be managed alongside the existing policy, providing free parking for those in the greatest need.
Josh Babarinde
Parking at Eastbourne district general hospital, where I was born, is woefully inadequate. The car park is often full, so patients have to park way away up the Rodmill hill, and car park services are crumbling. More than that, lower-banded NHS staff now face a near doubling of car parking charges to cover the cost. Given that the Government have delayed investment in our new hospital and, therefore, in a new car park until the 2040s, what support will they provide in the meantime to upgrade our DGH car parking facilities without our NHS heroes being expected to foot the bill?
Karin Smyth
As the hon. Gentleman knows, the discussions about any advanced works arising from the new hospital programme are ongoing. I am very happy for the Department to continue to discuss with the trust how future investment can best meet the needs of the future.
Rachel Taylor (North Warwickshire and Bedworth) (Lab)
University hospital Coventry and Warwickshire suffers from really poor car parking facilities. I have had to take both my parents there over recent years to use its specialist cardiology services. The poor quality of those car parking facilities causes additional stress for patients visiting those services, which they can ill afford when they have suffered strokes or heart attacks. It is becoming extremely vital that something is done, so will the Minister meet me and other local MPs to discuss the crisis in car parking at the hospital?
Karin Smyth
The provision of car parking remains an issue for trusts. I recognise the stress caused by trying to get patients to hospital, particularly if they have mobility problems. I commend the many hospitals across the country that have really good active travel plans and are working with their local communities to resolve some of these issues. We need to hear more from the trust about what provision it is putting in place to serve my hon. Friend’s constituents.
Perran Moon (Camborne and Redruth) (Lab)
Joe Powell (Kensington and Bayswater) (Lab)
The Secretary of State for Health and Social Care (Wes Streeting)
The driving force behind this Government’s approach to health is the principle that whoever a person is and whatever their background, they should receive the same world-class services as everyone else, based on need and not the ability to pay. That is why at its core, our 10-year plan for health looks to stamp out health inequalities, freeing up billions to move critical resources such as medicines and equipment to the regions and patients that need them most. Only a Labour Government will protect the NHS as a service free at the point of use, rebuild it, and make it fit for the future for everyone in our country.
Perran Moon
Meur ras, Mr Speaker. Carn to Coast runs GP surgeries across my Camborne, Redruth and Hayle constituency, including the surgery where my father practised for over 30 years. It is struggling under intense pressure, with deep-rooted health inequalities linked to the surrounding areas of deprivation. While I welcome the review of the Carr-Hill formula as part of the 10-year health plan, will the Secretary of State come to Cornwall and visit a Carn to Coast health centre with me, to see the innovative work that is already being undertaken and to discuss how the reforms will support health outcomes in the most deprived areas?
Wes Streeting
I can certainly give my hon. Friend that commitment. The damage that was wreaked by the previous Government, not just across our health service but across every other part of Government, means that the gap between the health of the poorest parts of our country and that of the wealthiest has widened enormously. We have seen real challenges in general practice, which is why there are 300 more patients per GP in the poorest communities compared with the richest, and that particularly affects rural and coastal communities with higher levels of deprivation. We are going to carry out a review of the Carr-Hill formula. That formula has to work for general practice, and I would be delighted to come and see the work that the team at Carn to Coast are doing.
Joe Powell
In Kensington and Bayswater, there is now a staggering 19-year gap in life expectancy between men living in Notting Dale and those living in Holland Park—which are just hundreds of metres apart—and that gap has grown in recent years. The Minister knows that this is a whole-of-society issue to do with housing, employment and education, but can he outline what steps the Department are taking to help inner-city areas with very high levels of health inequality, such as that experienced by my constituents in Kensington?
Wes Streeting
I am grateful to my hon. Friend for pointing out those stark differences in healthy life expectancy within a single inner London borough that contains some of the richest people on earth, as well as some of the poorest in our country. As for what we are doing as a Government, in addition to making sure that funding follows need and that we are tackling deprivation, our approach to neighbourhood health should make sure that we are working proactively in those communities that have the highest level of need, including pockets of deprivation within areas of higher affluence. Of course, as our plan recognises and as our mission-driven approach addresses, there are so many social determinants of ill health, including poverty, a lack of good work, damp housing, dirty air, and an inability to access culture and leisure opportunities that are affordable for everyone, not just the privileged few. Those are the issues that this Government are addressing, consistent with the Labour values that got us elected.
Sir Oliver Dowden (Hertsmere) (Con)
For residents of New Court Place care home in Borehamwood, wheelchairs are their lifeline. However, they are being badly let down by AJM Healthcare, their NHS wheelchair provider, with multiple unresolved assessments, bad communications and waiting times for repairs and replacements unbelievably extending to four years. Residents with physical and intellectual disabilities feel let down, overlooked and traumatised. In tackling health inequalities, can I urge the Secretary of State to look urgently at this provider and come to the aid of people who desperately need our help?
Wes Streeting
I can certainly give the right hon. Gentleman the assurance that my Department will look into the provider that he raises. One reason I was proud that this Government increased the disabled facilities grant is that it means not just more ramps, handrails and accessible kitchens and bathrooms, but dignity, independence, freedom and quality of life. That is precisely what the right hon. Gentleman’s constituents are being deprived of if they do not have wheelchairs that meet their needs. I would be delighted to look into this, and I am extremely angry that the failures he raises require me to do so.
Calum Miller (Bicester and Woodstock) (LD)
Does the Secretary of State agree that public health is at the heart of addressing the long list of inequalities he has just highlighted? I am deeply concerned that a major reorganisation of local government and the cutting of budgets to the integrated care board will undermine the co-ordination that currently exists in Oxfordshire to deliver public health. Can the Secretary of State assure me and my constituents that public health will continue to be a priority at the heart of the prevention strategy, and that funding for public health will rise in future years to make that possible?
Wes Streeting
I can certainly give the hon. Gentleman reassurance that the work we are doing to streamline and rationalise the amount of money we are spending on NHS bureaucracy means that we will free up resources that can be spent on the frontline, improving patient care and public health. Thanks to the decisions taken by my Department, the Deputy Prime Minister and, of course, my right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer, investment in public health is rising and the spending power of local authorities is improving. That is all good news for public health.
Dr Caroline Johnson (Sleaford and North Hykeham) (Con)
Tackling health inequalities requires a strong workforce. I recently met a constituent who is about to qualify as a nurse, but she has been unable to find work. She is not alone; this is a widespread problem. The reasons she has been given include recruitment freezes to save money and nurses brought in from overseas instead. We need more nurses to tackle health inequalities, so will the Secretary of State ensure that trusts are funded to support and employ new nurses, and to prioritise British nurses for British jobs?
Wes Streeting
I can certainly assure the shadow Minister that the chief nursing officer and I are working proactively to deal with nursing unemployment. We are also working with the leadership of the NHS to make sure that we are reducing our reliance on overseas workers. Grateful though I am to all the healthcare workers who come from overseas to work in our health and care services—the service would fall over tomorrow if they all left, so we should be extremely grateful—there is certainly an overreliance, and that is what we are addressing. I have to say to the shadow Minister, though, that both those issues are a result of appalling workforce planning, for which the previous Government bear a huge amount of responsibility.
Michelle Scrogham (Barrow and Furness) (Lab)
The Secretary of State for Health and Social Care (Wes Streeting)
It is only with proper investment and reform that we will bring care closer to people’s homes and into the community. Our 10-year health plan will roll out a neighbourhood health service in every community, as one-stop shops for health and care services that meet the needs of local populations, including rural and coastal communities like my hon. Friend’s constituency. The previous Government failed to move care into the community. We have already hit the ground running on delivering the 10-year health plan, and launched the national neighbourhood health implementation programme on 9 July to start that work at pace.
Michelle Scrogham
My constituents in Barrow and Furness very much welcome the Government’s move towards delivering more neighbourhood health services, but my right hon. Friend will be aware of the great concern locally about the proposal from Lancashire and South Cumbria integrated care board to permanently end level 3 critical care at Furness general hospital. More than 10,000 people have signed my petition just this week to oppose that move. Will the Secretary of State please ensure that decision makers meet me and representatives locally to explore an alternative path forward that ensures patient safety, protects the integrity of our hospital and reflects the area’s growing population?
Wes Streeting
That was just one of many instances in which my hon. Friend has made the voices and views of people across Barrow and Furness heard loudly and clearly in this place and across government. In response to her question, I say yes, absolutely: on such an important matter her local commissioners should be meeting her, as the local Member of Parliament, and I think I can commit to that on their behalf. While such decisions must be made locally and clinically led, they must also be made in partnership with the local authority and the local community. We must ensure that we are engaging democratically elected representatives, and I will ensure that my hon. Friend secures that meeting.
Sir Jeremy Hunt (Godalming and Ash) (Con)
My constituents in Cranleigh have no train service and no direct bus service to the Royal Surrey County hospital in Guildford, which is a big issue for older residents who do not drive. Does the Secretary of State agree that some of the empty rooms in Cranleigh Village hospital could provide a very good opportunity for the expansion of neighbourhood health services, and if he has not been briefed on this pressing issue by his officials, may I brief him, or one of his Ministers, on it in the autumn?
Wes Streeting
That sounds like another bid for a neighbourhood health centre in the right hon. Gentleman’s constituency, but I am sure that local commissioners will be delighted to hear the case he has made, given the experience that he brings to bear.
Robin Swann (South Antrim) (UUP)
The Secretary of State for Health and Social Care (Wes Streeting)
Before this Government came to office, strikes were crippling the NHS. Costs ran to £1.7 billion in just one year, and patients saw 1.5 million appointments rescheduled. Strikes this week are not inevitable, and I sincerely hope that the British Medical Association will postpone this action in order to continue the constructive talks that my team and I have had with its representatives in recent days. Our priority is to keep patients safe regardless, and we will do everything we can to mitigate the impact on them and the disruption that will follow should these totally unnecessary and avoidable strikes go ahead.
Robin Swann
In a previous role, I found that health workers took industrial action only in extreme circumstances, so I agree with the Secretary of State that if the strikes can be prevented, they should be. During previous resident doctors’ strikes, elective or scheduled procedures were usually postponed, or planned to be postponed, to free up senior doctors to cover their work, but I note that the chief executive of NHS England has instructed hospitals to continue those procedures. Has the Secretary of State made any assessment of the impact that would have not just on patients but on the staff who would have to remain?
Wes Streeting
The approach we are taking is different from that taken during previous periods of strike action. NHS leaders have made it clear to me that those earlier strikes caused much wider harm than had previously been realised. There is no reason why planned care—appointments relating to cancer, for example, as well as other conditions—should be treated as being less important than, or playing second fiddle to, other NHS services. That is why the chief executive of NHS England has written to NHS leaders asking them to keep routine operations going to the fullest extent possible, as well as continuing priority treatments. It will be for local leaders to determine what is possible given staffing levels, which is why it is so important for resident doctors to engage with their employers about their determination—or not—to turn up at work this week, and why I must again spell out the serious consequences for patients should these avoidable and unnecessary strikes go ahead.
Lorraine Beavers (Blackpool North and Fleetwood) (Lab)
Healthcare assistants at Blackpool teaching hospitals NHS foundation trust have been underpaid on the wrong band for years, but the trust has consistently failed to put that right, and as a result staff have been left with no choice but to be balloted for strike action by Unison from today. Healthcare assistants play a vital role in our NHS, but is it any wonder that they often feel undervalued and demoralised when they are not paid the correct rate for the duties that they undertake? Does the Secretary of State agree that Blackpool’s healthcare assistants are worth just as much as those in the rest of the north-west and that the trust should pay up now?
Wes Streeting
I should declare that I am a member of Unison. The issue that my hon. Friend raises is a serious one. We obviously do not want to see strike action impacting on her local constituents, and my Department will do everything we can to help bring an end to the dispute.
I will make a more general point: these sorts of choices and trade-offs about resources are precisely why the BMA resident doctors, having received a 28.9% pay rise from this Government in the last year, ought to remember the responsibility that I and they have to some of their lower-paid colleagues. Resources are finite, and it is important that I act in the interests of all NHS staff and have particular concern for those who work extremely hard but are not properly rewarded.
Edward Argar (Melton and Syston) (Con)
The resident doctors’ strike is unnecessary, irresponsible and wrong. Recently, and again today from the Dispatch Box, the Secretary of State has been resolute in not giving in to the BMA resident doctors committee’s demands. Although I do not know the details of the current status of his discussions with the committee, may I encourage him to remain firm in his stance and, while being fair to doctors, to always ensure that he puts the interests of patients and taxpayers first?
Wes Streeting
Once again, the House is speaking with one voice, and I hope that the BMA understands the strength of feeling on both sides of the House about the unnecessary and irresponsible nature of the proposed strike action this week. Discussions in recent days have been constructive, and I hope that gives grounds for the postponement of strike action so that we can work together to avert it—not just this week, but altogether.
Lewis Atkinson (Sunderland Central) (Lab)
The Secretary of State for Health and Social Care (Wes Streeting)
Under this Government, waiting lists have fallen by more than a quarter of a million in our first year, but strike action puts that hard-won progress at risk. If strikes do go ahead, we will do everything we can to minimise the disruption to patients, who will bear the brunt of cancellations. We continue to work with the BMA resident doctors committee in the hope that its members will do the right thing and call off the strikes. None the less, if they go ahead, we stand ready, responsive and resolute.
Lewis Atkinson
There were 5,448 drug-related deaths in 2023—the highest figure ever—and an 84% increase from the number that led the previous Government to publish their drugs strategy, which was supposed to save lives. Does the Secretary of State agree that the existing drugs strategy is not fit for purpose, and will he urgently start work on replacing it with a public health-led drugs strategy to tackle this public health emergency?
Wes Streeting
I am extremely grateful to my hon. Friend for his question. The number of drug-related deaths remains far too high, and we are committed to saving lives through access to high-quality treatment. For 2025-26, my Department is providing £310 million in addition to the public health grant to deliver the recommendations from Dame Carol Black’s independent review, but there is much more to do. We look forward to working with my hon. Friend to achieve success.
Edward Argar (Melton and Syston) (Con)
Dementia is one of the greatest health challenges that we as a society face today and in the future, but too many people with dementia end up in hospital, rather than being treated in more appropriate community settings. The 10-year NHS plan offers a real opportunity to shift care into the community and away from acute settings, including for dementia. Will the Secretary of State commit to working with Dementia UK, the Alzheimer’s Society and other fantastic charities as he develops the implementation of his 10-year NHS plan to ensure that it truly delivers for people with dementia and those who care for them?
Wes Streeting
I absolutely agree with what the shadow Secretary of State has said. All three shifts—from hospital to community, from analogue to digital, and from sickness to prevention—ought to benefit people with Alzheimer’s, dementias and other neurological conditions, as will the pioneering science that we need in this country, which I know he is so passionate about.
Edward Argar
Maintaining the focus on local communities, the fantastic St Mary’s birth centre in Melton Mowbray, in my constituency, has recently been temporarily closed by the local NHS trust for six months due to staff shortages. Although I appreciate that the Secretary of State does not have powers over such temporary closures and that local NHS leaders have engaged constructively, many local people fear that “temporary” could risk becoming permanent. If that risk looks like becoming a reality by the end of the summer, will the Secretary of State or one of his Ministers pre-emptively agree to meet me at that point to discuss it?
Mr Speaker, if I may briefly crave your indulgence at what is my last Dispatch Box appearance for the foreseeable future, may I take the opportunity—after seven years, almost continuously, on the Front Bench in government and in opposition—to thank you, to say that it has been a privilege, and to tell the Secretary of State that it has been a pleasure to shadow him? I think he knows it, but I genuinely wish him well.
Wes Streeting
I absolutely give the right hon. Gentleman the assurance that I would be happy to meet him about his constituency issue, or indeed anything else. For all of the exchanges that we have across these Dispatch Boxes on issues of disagreement, what is not always readily understood beyond this House is the extent to which those on both sides work extremely constructively together, on the enormous number of issues that we have in common, in pursuit of the national interest. The virtues of wisdom, kindness and selfless dedication to public service are not the preserve of one side of the House. The right hon. Gentleman has those qualities in abundance, and we wish him very well, personally and professionally.
Jas Athwal (Ilford South) (Lab)
Wes Streeting
I deplore Israel’s attacks on healthcare workers, as well as those on innocent civilians trying to access healthcare or vital aid. These actions go well beyond legitimate self-defence and undermine the prospects for peace. I will be in touch with the World Health Organisation to offer my support following the intolerable incident yesterday. I sincerely hope that the international community can come together, as my right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary has been driving for, to ensure that we see an end to this war, but also the recognition of the state of Palestine while there is still a state of Palestine left to recognise.
Jess Brown-Fuller (Chichester) (LD)
Carers across the country have launched a protest from home today, with the Carers Trust. Their faces are projected on screens around Parliament Square because they are unable to leave their loved ones to protest in person. The Government’s pledge for the carer’s allowance review to report by early summer looks set to be broken. Can the Secretary of State today commit to ending the cliff edge for carer’s allowance and to introducing a statutory guarantee for respite care so that carers know that he is listening?
Wes Streeting
I thank the hon. Member for her question, and for making everyone aware of the powerful protest taking place today, which so visibly reminds us that lots of people’s voices may not be heard if they cannot participate in person. It is a reminder of the challenges that people face. I will undertake to raise her concerns with my right hon. Friend the Work and Pensions Secretary, and I give carers across the country the assurance that we are working as fast as we can. Having delivered the biggest expansion of carer’s allowance since the 1970s, we want to ensure we deliver for this extremely important group of people, whom we are lucky to have in our society.
Gareth Snell (Stoke-on-Trent Central) (Lab/Co-op)
Wes Streeting
I can absolutely give my hon. Friend that reassurance. It was appalling that the previous Government not only cancelled lots of the deprivation-linked funding put in place by the Labour Government but threw all that progress into reverse. That is not the approach that this Government will take. We will have funding based on need, not pork barrel politics. I can assure my hon. Friend that his constituents in Stoke-on-Trent will benefit from our sincere commitment to tackling health inequalities.
David Davis (Goole and Pocklington) (Con)
Wes Streeting
I can certainly give the right hon. Gentleman the assurance that we are looking right across NHS estates to make sure we are making best use of them, particularly in the context of neighbourhood health. I have heard the case he has made about how neighbourhood health services could be provided on that site. I hope commissioners have heard the case, but if not I will make sure that they do and that he gets the relevant meetings he needs.
Josh Dean (Hertford and Stortford) (Lab)
The Minister for Care (Stephen Kinnock)
I commend my hon. Friend for bringing his personal experience to bear on this important matter. NHS England’s independent ADHD taskforce is looking at how to provide support for people with ADHD and how to improve it. We are considering the taskforce’s interim report and look forward to the final report later this year. The taskforce is joined up with expert groups established across Government to provide advice on meeting the needs of neurodivergent children and young people in education, and on boosting neurodiversity inclusion at work.
Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Health and Social Care (Ashley Dalton)
The cancer plan will reflect the three shifts in the 10-year plan, including from hospital to community. Macmillan, Cancer Research UK and Cancer52 all sit on the steering board for the cancer plan, and I meet them regularly. Last week, we announced the Diagnostic Connect partnership with the third sector, linking patients with third sector services on diagnosis. The cancer plan will cover this for the whole of England and build on the commitments in the 10-year plan.
Bambos Charalambous (Southgate and Wood Green) (Lab)
Ashley Dalton
The national cancer plan for England will have patients at its heart and will cover the entirety of the cancer pathway, from referral and diagnosis to treatment and aftercare, as well as prevention and innovation. It will seek to improve every aspect of cancer care, including establishing targets for delivery right through the cancer pathway.
Martin Vickers (Brigg and Immingham) (Con)
Ashley Dalton
We are looking very carefully at the arguments for national screening. The hon. Member will be aware that there are concerns. We have to look at this very carefully to ensure that screening programmes do not cause unnecessary harm, but targeted and widespread screening for prostate cancer is something that the Department is looking at and will report on in due course.
Mr Richard Quigley (Isle of Wight West) (Lab)
Stephen Kinnock
We have inherited a system that is utterly failing to meet the needs of children with special educational needs. This Government are reforming the SEND system, ensuring that there is joined-up support across education and healthcare. We are also supporting inclusive environments and earlier intervention for children through the early language support for every child programme, or ELSEC, and the partnership for inclusion of neurodiversity in schools programme, or PINS.
Dr Ben Spencer (Runnymede and Weybridge) (Con)
Eight years ago, Weybridge community hospital burned down. After a long journey, the replacement finally received planning consent last week; all it needs now is for the Secretary of State to sign the cheque on the dotted line. Will he do so as soon as possible?
The Minister for Secondary Care (Karin Smyth)
The business case for the rebuild of the health centre has been submitted to NHS England for review, and NHS Property Services will in parallel be asked to approve the capital funding. Subject to those approvals, a new health centre will be fully completed in 2027.
Will Stone (Swindon North) (Lab)
Phlebotomists across the country play a vital role in our NHS. Will the Minister consider making the job role band 3 across the nation to ensure that everybody is paid fairly?
Karin Smyth
Phlebotomists are paid on an “Agenda for Change” pay scale, which is underpinned by the job evaluation scheme. It is something the Secretary of State and I discussed with the trade union Unison last week; I should declare that I am a member of Unison. It is working closely with the trust in question, but I am happy to discuss the matter with my hon. Friend further.
Dr Danny Chambers (Winchester) (LD)
Many carers have told me how much they rely on respite care to protect their own physical and mental health so that they can continue to care for their loved ones day in, day out. The wonderful Chesil Lodge day centre in Winchester has recently been threatened with closure, and I have been fighting alongside constituents to keep it open. How will the Department ensure that respite services such as those at Chesil Lodge are consistently available and are not subject to a postcode lottery? Can I also—
Stephen Kinnock
Our 10-year plan will boost support for family carers via digital tools such as My Carer and include them in care planning and shared decision-making processes. We have raised the carer’s allowance earnings limit to £196 a week—the biggest increase since 1976—and we have launched the independent commission into adult social care, which will look at unpaid carers’ needs. The hon. Member raises an important point about respite care; I am chairing a cross-ministerial group on our carers strategy, and I would be happy to update him outside the Chamber.
John Whitby (Derbyshire Dales) (Lab)
Last autumn, there was not a single NHS dental practice in Derbyshire Dales accepting new adult patients other than those referred for specialist care. The lack of NHS dentistry has led many of my constituents to experience severe economic hardship, with one telling me he had to spend £100 to have a single tooth fixed and another spending £2,000 on dentures. Will the Government provide increased funding for NHS dentistry to ensure that more people in rural areas like Derbyshire Dales can access NHS dentists?
Stephen Kinnock
The mess we inherited from the previous Government beggars belief, with 14 million adults with an unmet dental need, while for children between five and nine years old, the most common reason for hospital admission was to have their rotten teeth removed. This Government are determined to get NHS dentistry back on its feet. We are targeting the areas most in need, including rural areas, by delivering 700,000 additional urgent dental appointments, and reforming the dental contract. Our consultation is under way, and I encourage my hon. Friend to participate.
Wera Hobhouse (Bath) (LD)
I was really disappointed that there was not one mention of eating disorders in the NHS 10-year plan, which is particularly troubling given that some of the proposed measures to reduce obesity may inadvertently harm those affected by eating disorders. When will the Government finally commit to an eating disorder strategy, as recommended by the eating disorders all-party parliamentary group?
Stephen Kinnock
This Government are investing an extra £688 million this year to improve access to mental health services. We are transforming our mental health services with 24/7 neighbourhood health centres; I was very pleased last week to visit the centre we are launching in Bethnal Green. I would gently say to the hon. Lady that she is part of the political party that propped up the Tories in government—this lot opposite—which led to some of the desperate situations we see across mental health today.
Nick Smith (Blaenau Gwent and Rhymney) (Lab)
Parkrun is a global public health phenomenon. Will the Minister meet me and the new Parkrun chief executive to talk about future collaboration?
Ashley Dalton
Parkrun is a fantastic organisation that is doing amazing work. We know that movement saves the NHS around £10.5 billion a year, but 12 million adults are still inactive, and we need a team effort to succeed in getting millions more moving. There is a lot we can learn from Parkrun, and I would happily consider any invitation to meet it.
Mr Gagan Mohindra (South West Hertfordshire) (Con)
The House has already heard the recent announcement about the closure of the urgent care centre at Mount Vernon hospital. My hon. Friends the Members for Ruislip, Northwood and Pinner (David Simmonds) and for Beaconsfield (Joy Morrissey) and I are all concerned about the quality of healthcare for our constituents, especially as the Labour Government have delayed the new Watford general hospital until at least 2032. What steps is the Minister taking to improve the quality of healthcare in our areas, instead of just making it worse?
Wes Streeting
When this Labour Government came to office, we promised 2 million more appointments, but we have actually delivered 4.5 million. We have cut NHS waiting lists month after month, and they are now at their lowest level in two years. Of course there is more to do. I regret that we had to delay Watford general hospital; the previous Government left a plan that was not credible and had no available funding. We are cleaning up their mess, and the hon. Member has a cheek to complain about it.
Daniel Francis (Bexleyheath and Crayford) (Lab)
The report, “Barriers for adults with Cerebral Palsy on achieving full life participation”, published by the former all-party parliamentary group on cerebral palsy, highlighted the cliff-edge in support for those with cerebral palsy when they transition at the age of 18 and the need to end the separation of neuro and musculoskeletal knowledge within the NHS, given that cerebral palsy is a neuromusculoskeletal condition, and that those living with it need easy and ready access to both areas. I would therefore be grateful if I could understand—
Mr Speaker
Order. Let me help the hon. Gentleman. If you have a main question and I call you in topicals, you really need to shorten your question in order to let other Members in.
Ashley Dalton
NHS England has worked with key stakeholders to develop a framework to aid integrated care systems to commission high-quality services for children and young people with cerebral palsy, including as they transition to adult services. Guidance from the National Institute for Health and Care Excellence on cerebral palsy in the under-25s also sets out key considerations in transition planning.
Adrian Ramsay (Waveney Valley) (Green)
Data published last week shows that despite the Government’s initial action, the proportion of dentists working in the NHS in Norfolk and Waveney continues to drop. I am pleased to hear about the Government’s work on the dental contract, but the Public Accounts Committee is clear that this will work only if it is backed by sustainable funding. I will give the Minister another chance to answer the question: will the Government ensure that the extra funding that has been put into the Department is actually reflected in extra funding for NHS dentistry?
Stephen Kinnock
One thing that I made clear to officials when I came into this post was that every penny that is allocated to NHS dentistry must be spent on NHS dentistry. We are in a crazy situation where demand for NHS dentistry is going through the roof, yet we have had underspends. That needs to stop. We will focus the spending on where it is most needed, including areas that are under-served, such as the hon. Gentleman’s constituency.
Sarah Owen (Luton North) (Lab)
My constituents Marie Brewis and Denise Coates are bravely using their own experience of breast cancer treatment to campaign for a dedicated cancer support centre in Luton. Does the Minister agree that Luton could benefit from the wraparound care of a cancer support centre locally, and will she meet me to discuss this?
Ashley Dalton
The national cancer plan, which will be introduced towards the end of this year, will cover cancer facilities across England. I would be more than happy to meet my hon. Friend to discuss the particulars in her constituency.
Lee Anderson (Ashfield) (Reform)
Brierley Park medical centre applied for funding from the primary care utilisation and modernisation fund earlier this year. It has been successful, but it has not yet had the money, and the money must be spent by the end of the year. Will the Secretary of State please tell my medical centre when it will receive this vital funding?
Wes Streeting
The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right about the timeliness of decision making and the need to release funding when it is allocated. I shall make sure that my Department looks into that, and write to him with an answer.
Dame Meg Hillier (Hackney South and Shoreditch) (Lab/Co-op)
I commend my right hon. Friend for his work on reducing waiting lists, but at the Homerton in Hackney, because of a system-wide funding failure, deficit reduction money was removed three months into a 12-month agreement, which reduced the opportunity to drive down waiting lists still further. Will he or one of his colleagues meet me to discuss this issue and see what we can do to drive down those waiting lists?
Wes Streeting
We are taking action to deal with the over-running of budgets and the reckless spending across the NHS and to bring deficits under control, but I would be delighted to meet my hon. Friend.
Lincoln Jopp (Spelthorne) (Con)
Spelthorne residents Emma and John lost Holly to cancer in October last year. They set up the charity Holly’s Heroes in her name. Before she died, Holly was given a wheelchair by the NHS, and Emma and John cannot now give it back to the NHS for love nor money. I have raised this with the chief executive of the trust, but can the Secretary of State reassure me that this practice is not replicated nationwide?
Wes Streeting
We absolutely need to look at reducing waste in the NHS, so I would be delighted to pick up that case. Can I also say an enormous thank you to Holly’s family for the work they are doing in such unimaginable circumstances? I really admire people who put themselves forward to serve others in that way after such a painful experience.
Jen Craft (Thurrock) (Lab)
Last Friday I brought together GPs, housing developers, the local authority, the ICB, and anyone else you care to name, to try finally to solve the issue of our having one of the most under-doctored areas in the country for primary care. Among the many issues raised was a particularly niche one: thanks to NHS Property Services demanding a late payment from a couple of GP surgeries, which were unaware that they were due to pay this rent, those surgeries now face the possibility of having to pay a bill that equates to the cost of one GP’s salary for a year. That cannot be right.
Wes Streeting
I would be delighted to look at the issue that my hon. Friend raises. I am only sorry that I missed the party last week.
Tim Farron (Westmorland and Lonsdale) (LD)
Lancashire and South Cumbria integrated care board is having to make savings of £142 million this year, and the backdrop to that is a loss of wards at Barrow, Lancaster and Kendal. We hear a lot about additional money for the NHS. Why is none of it coming to Cumbria?
Wes Streeting
It is not the case that none of the money is going to Cumbria. We are taking action to deal with the persistent overrunning and over-spending of NHS budgets, which was an intolerable situation that we had to get a grip on. We are investing £26 billion more in the NHS, and that will rise over the course of this Parliament. We will make sure that every part of the country gets its fair share, not least through the deprivation-linked funding that I mentioned. I know that it is bumpy for ICBs as we get them back to balance, but believe me it will be worth it in the end when we have a sustainable NHS that is fit for the future.
Cat Eccles (Stourbridge) (Lab)
In 2020, a consultation was carried out to give prescribing rights to operating department practitioners, but despite positive discussions with the Department we are no further forwards and OPDs and allied health professionals are being held back. Does the Secretary of State agree that expanding their roles within scope of practice will improve efficiency, patient care and professional development?
Wes Streeting
We are keen to address these sorts of issues through our workforce planning and to ensure that staff are working to the top of their licensing capability, always within the training provided. That way we can get the best possible value for taxpayer money and, most importantly of all, the best outcomes for patients.
Damian Hinds (East Hampshire) (Con)
Does the Secretary of State agree with me about the importance of step-down provision, provided by community hospitals such as Petersfield and Alton, both for patient care and for relieving pressure on acute hospitals, such as Queen Alexandra and Basingstoke?
Wes Streeting
Yes, and that is why we are reforming the better care fund.
Josh Fenton-Glynn (Calder Valley) (Lab)
Key to the shift to prevention is making sure that people can stay in their own homes or get home from hospital. The Health and Social Care Committee found that such provision costs the NHS £1.9 billion every year. Can the Secretary of State update me on what we are doing to get the social care system working?
Wes Streeting
Thanks to the decision that the Chancellor has taken, spending power in social care is rising—not just through Department funding but in the spending power of local authorities. My hon. Friend is absolutely right: we have to get the right care in the right place at the right time. That often means better care for patients and better value for taxpayers.
Tessa Munt (Wells and Mendip Hills) (LD)
At midnight, The Times published an article on the ME final delivery plan, carrying quotes from three ME campaign groups. The charity Action for ME published a five-page briefing at the same time, and “BBC Breakfast” also featured the plan, so they had all read the plan. I checked with the relevant officers and went to the House of Commons Library about half an hour ago, and no plan has been published. More than 12 hours after the Department’s press release, no MP can access the plan. Is this how it should be?
Ashley Dalton
I thank the hon. Member for raising this issue. That is not what I was expecting. A written ministerial statement has been tabled, and I will speak to officials and make sure that that plan is available as it should be.
Prax Lindsey Oil Refinery
(1 year ago)
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Andrew Bowie (West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine) (Con)
(Urgent Question): To ask the Secretary of State for Energy Security and Net Zero if he will make a statement on the closure of the Prax Lindsey oil refinery.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Energy Security and Net Zero (Michael Shanks)
In my oral statement on 30 June, I informed Parliament of the deeply disappointing news that the Prax Lindsey oil refinery had entered insolvency and that the court had appointed an official receiver to manage the situation on the site and determine the next steps. Since then, we have worked urgently to ensure the safety of the refinery site and the security of fuel supplies, and to protect workers. That also allowed time for bidders to express an interest in the site. Following a thorough process, the official receiver has rigorously assessed all the bids received and concluded that sale of the business as a whole is not a credible option.
I visited workers at the site on 17 July, and I will be meeting them again shortly today. I know that this will be hugely disappointing news to them, their families and the wider community. They are all in my thoughts at this time. A package has been offered to all directly employed at the refinery which guarantees their jobs and pay over the coming months. Alongside the usual support that is offered to workforces in insolvency situations, the Government will also immediately fund a comprehensive training guarantee for those refinery workers to ensure that they have the skills needed and the support to find jobs in, for example, the growing clean energy workforce.
Furthermore, we understand that the official receiver continues to explore various proposals for assets on the site. I therefore remain hopeful that a solution will be found that creates future employment opportunities at the Immingham site. The refinery will continue to process crude for the rest of the month, and the official receiver will continue selling refined products for a number of weeks, giving buyers time to adjust their supply chains.
The former owners left the refinery in an untenable position and gave the Government little time to act. That is why the Energy Secretary immediately demanded an investigation into their conduct and the circumstances surrounding the insolvency, and why I have repeatedly called on the owners to do the right thing and provide financial support to the workforce at this difficult time.
Andrew Bowie
When the Prax Lindsey refinery closes its doors in October, there will be only four oil refineries remaining in the United Kingdom, following the news about Grangemouth a few months ago. This is the second oil refinery to close in the United Kingdom in only six months, prompting serious questions about our energy security and resilience. In Immingham, people are waking up today to the reality that redundancies are now inevitable. It is estimated that about 625 jobs will be lost. For the community in Lincolnshire, that is seismic.
As the Minister said, we are aware of the long-standing financial issues with Prax Group, and I reiterate my support for the Government’s investigation into its directors. What progress has been made on that investigation? When does he expect the report to be made?
We cannot escape the fundamental crisis facing our manufacturing sector. As Jim Ratcliffe has said, the sector is “facing extinction” because of
“enormously high energy prices and crippling carbon tax bills.”
The Minister’s Department knows that to be true and has exempted some industry from paying the net zero levies, recusing specific businesses from paying the extortionate green subsidy costs. That is a ridiculous situation that sees subsidies being paid by the Government to businesses to exempt them from the charges being imposed by that very same Government—we are truly through the looking glass. The Department is wilfully talking down the oil and gas industry with hostile language and an impossible fiscal regime while overseeing the deindustrialisation of the United Kingdom through the perpetuated high cost of industrial energy. This is not simply managed decline; it is accelerated decline driven by ideology and steered from Whitehall.
Will the Minister tell us what work is being done to ensure the future of the four remaining oil refineries in the United Kingdom? What, if any, assessment has been made of the UK’s resilience, given the steep reduction in our refining capacity over the past six months? What, if any, assessment has been made of the increased reliance on imports that will be necessary as a result of the reduction in British refining capacity? Will he please change course and start speaking up for our oil industry—upstream and downstream—which sees from the current Government a disregard for it, its workers and the communities that rely most on it?
Michael Shanks
I agree with the shadow Minister, who was right to point out the impact that news like this will have on the workforce, who are hearing it this week, as well as the wider impact it has on their families and the community. That is why it is so important that we provide that support.
On the investigation, there is not much that I can update the House on at the moment. The Insolvency Service is carrying out that investigation, and it would be wrong for Ministers to interfere in that, but we have obviously given the direction that we expect it to be completed as quickly as possible. Given the mess we found the company in, I would not be surprised if it takes a bit of time for the investigation to get to grips with what was going on there, but that is for the Insolvency Service to resolve.
On resilience and fuel supplies, we have been really clear throughout that we have done everything we can to try to find a buyer to keep the site operating as a going concern, which is important for the workforce as well as for local resilience, but Prax Lindsey oil refinery comprises about 10% of our remaining refinery capacity; Phillips 66—a much larger refinery—is immediately next door. In the past few weeks, we have already seen fuel supplies adjusted and commercial contracts renegotiated. Although we clearly wanted the refinery to stay open, our assessment suggests that there is not an immediate risk to fuel supplies locally or in the wider area, but we will continue to monitor that.
On the shadow Minister’s wider points, I will first repeat what I have said on a number of occasions: we do support the oil and gas industry. I have spent a lot of time with the industry understanding some of its challenges, which are long standing, particularly around jobs lost over the past decade, and we consulted widely on what the future of energy in the north-east should look like to give confidence to the industry. We inherited the fiscal regime from the previous Government. We have consulted quickly on what the future of the energy profits levy should look like to ensure certainty about the fiscal landscape. The Treasury will respond to that consultation in due course. We want to give certainty, but we also want to recognise that this is an industry in transition, and burying our heads in the sand and pretending that that is not the case does nothing to protect the workforce in the long term. We will therefore continue to invest in the new industries of the future and in that wider strategy.
Refineries are important to our economy and will continue to be important. That is why I brought all of industry together in a roundtable to discuss the challenges facing the refinery sector. I was shocked to discover that that was the first time there had been such an invitation from the Government in 13 years. I ask the shadow Minister to reflect on who was in power for 14 years.
Bill Esterson (Sefton Central) (Lab)
The Minister is absolutely right—so was the shadow Minister—to focus on the jobs and the communities affected by the worrying news coming from Lindsey. He was also right to say that the problems are the result of shockingly bad management. My Select Committee will look at the future of refining in this country in a one-off session in the autumn, and we will be able to take further evidence at that point.
In response to what the shadow Minister said about energy prices, will the Minister confirm that the way to get industrial energy prices down—just as with domestic energy prices—is to reduce our reliance on the volatility, uncertainty and high prices that are determined by Vladimir Putin and the petrostates, and that we have to manage the transition, not shut our eyes to it or somehow play into culture wars as Reform wants us to do?
Michael Shanks
My hon. Friend is right. Separate from all the wider issues facing the refinery sector and the oil and gas sector generally, it is right we recognise that this week there are workers hearing some devastating news. Detailed work will be going on into how much of the site we can utilise in the future, and assessments are under way about how credible some of the bids are. We will do more work on that, and I am sure that his inquiry will be useful.
On energy costs more generally, one of the conversations I had when I met the refinery sector was about how we could do more to bring down its costs. We are looking at how we could support refineries more through including them in the energy intensive industries compensation scheme, which would obviously cut costs and help UK refineries with their competitiveness. That is not straightforward, but we are determined to look at that.
On my hon. Friend’s final point, he is right that the overall context of what we are doing as a Government is driving forward the transition to clean power, because it gives us back our energy security and takes away the volatility in prices that has been so devastating to households and businesses over the past few years. It is also the economic opportunity that helps drive forward refineries into what could be profitable businesses in that transition. They will continue to play a part in that, and we will support them to do so.
Mr Speaker
We have a lot of business today, so if we could help each other, that would be very useful. I call the Liberal Democrat spokesperson.
Edward Morello (West Dorset) (LD)
The closure of Prax Lindsey oil refinery is deeply troubling, with up to 1,000 jobs at risk across the supply chain. It is a devastating blow to workers, their families and the communities that rely on the refinery. We need a clear strategy to support those whose livelihood is in jeopardy. That means practical help with reskilling and retraining. This is also an opportunity for targeted green investment in industries that can offer decent, secure jobs for the future.
This crisis speaks to a wider failure. The UK still lacks a proper plan for a just transition that gives oil and gas workers real confidence about what comes next. We need to wind down fossil fuels in a way that provides genuine opportunities—well-paid green jobs, clean energy infrastructure, and proper support for the communities that have long powered this country. As other parties embrace climate denialism and internet conspiracy theories, the Liberal Democrats call on the Government to ensure that we do not backtrack on our climate targets, undermine green investor confidence, and abandon our leadership on the world stage when it comes to climate change.
First, what steps are the Government taking to ensure that contingency plans are in place, so that those whose jobs are at risk are guaranteed support and opportunities to redeploy their skills? Secondly, how are the Government ensuring that investment in skills and regeneration is targeted, so that it has the greatest impact where it is needed most? Finally, what steps are the Government taking to ensure that the transition to renewable energy makes the best use of the skills and experience of oil and gas workers in the places affected, such as the Humber estuary?
Michael Shanks
I wrote down the hon. Gentleman’s points, and then he came on to specific questions, but I will respond to the points. He rightly says that this has been devastating news for the workers. He also said something that I want to echo, and which I said to the workers when I met them last week: this decision, and what has happened to the company, is no reflection at all on the incredible, very skilled work that they are doing. I want to reiterate that. So often in these cases, the workers bear the brunt of decisions taken by the company, and that is a great shame. He is right, and we will support the workers. My Department is funding the training guarantee to make sure that all those workers are given an assessment of their training needs and future employment desires, so they can be given tailored support. We will make sure that is rolled out in the coming months.
On the hon. Gentleman’s wider point about the transition, he is right to say that we need a proper plan. That is why we consulted on the future of energy in the North sea, both through a series of questions, and through a much broader question about what the future of our energy sector looks like. It will have oil and gas for many decades to come, but already thousands of jobs are being created in other offshore industries, and we want to support that.
The hon. Gentleman is right to highlight that investor confidence is critical. It is shameful that people would seek to damage investor confidence in this country in the name of net zero rhetoric. The truth is that there has been more than £40 billion of investment in clean energies in this country. That means jobs and opportunities in all our communities across the country, and those who would talk that down should be ashamed.
Laurence Turner (Birmingham Northfield) (Lab)
I draw the House’s attention to my entry in the Register of Members’ Financial Interests in respect of the GMB trade union. The Minister said that he was engaging with workers. Will he set out in more detail what engagement he is undertaking with the trade unions that are those workers’ representatives? Will he give the House an assurance that the detailed modelling work undertaken by the Department includes the impact on the wider supply chain?
Michael Shanks
I also declare that I am a member of the GMB trade union; that is recorded in my entry in the Register of Members’ Financial Interests.
I have engaged with both the Unite trade union reps who are on the site, and with day shift workers who are not represented by a trade union, to make sure that I hear from them. I met them earlier this month and last week at the refinery, and I will meet them in about an hour’s time to talk through this more. We want to continue that engagement with them.
Sir Edward Leigh (Gainsborough) (Con)
Obviously, my first concern is my constituents who work in the refinery in the neighbouring constituency, that of my hon. Friend the Member for Brigg and Immingham (Martin Vickers). I am sure that the Minister will give them reassurance about enhanced redundancy. Also, may I ask a question on behalf of my rural constituents in North Lincolnshire—and I declare an interest, as I live there? This is a deeply rural area, where we rely on heating oil because we are not on mains gas. What impact will closure of the refinery have on the price of heating oil?
Michael Shanks
On redundancy, because of how the company went into insolvency, the workers will be entitled to statutory redundancy. That is not acceptable, given the role that they played in delivering for the company for many years. That is why I have publicly asked the owners of the company to put their hands in their pocket and improve the redundancy package. It is not possible for the Government to improve the package directly, but I am still hopeful that the company owners will do the right thing. We are providing a training guarantee to the workers, from Government funds, to make sure that they have that enhanced support.
I am happy to take away the point about heating oil. We have been assessing the situation over the past few weeks, including a number of weeks during which fuel has not left the refinery at its normal pace, to see what the impact is on supplies across the region. That impact has been minimal. That is partly because a significant amount of fuel and products come from the refinery next door. However, we will continue to monitor that, and if there is an impact on prices, I am happy to look into that.
Gareth Snell (Stoke-on-Trent Central) (Lab/Co-op)
Much like the ceramics sector, the refinery sector is an energy-intensive industry that is at the mercy of industrial energy prices, which are beyond its control but have a huge impact on its viability. It is welcome that the Minister thinks that the energy-intensive certification programme could expand to include the refinery sector, but he will know that the business level test is a huge barrier that needs to be overcome; it means that many companies will not be eligible for the programme. He will also know that the British industry competitiveness scheme is not due to come online for another two years; indeed, consultation on that scheme has yet to be opened. Refineries and ceramics companies are looking down the barrel of ever-increasing industrial energy bills. Will he give them some indication of what help and support is available now, before the new schemes come online, so that we do not have more statements about closed factories in the next few months?
Michael Shanks
My hon. Friend is right, and it is deeply frustrating that we inherited many of these issues, which were unresolved for such a long time. These are not problems that arrived in the past 12 months. Bringing in the refinery sector for talks with Government about the challenges would have been a fairly obvious thing to do at least once in the past 13 years. Clearly, that did not occur to the previous Government, and we have inherited challenges.
My hon. Friend is right to say that consultations will take time, unfortunately. It is right that we conduct a proper consultation to make sure that there are not any unintended consequences. The Minister for Industry, who is a Minister in both the Department for Energy Security and Net Zero and the Department for Business and Trade, is looking at how we can do that as quickly as possible. I am happy to follow that up with her. My hon. Friend is also right that nobody wants to be talking about redundancies in any part of our economy, and we are doing everything we can to bring down prices to prevent redundancies.
Martin Vickers (Brigg and Immingham) (Con)
This is a massive blow to my Brigg and Immingham constituency—most particularly to those directly employed by the refinery, but also to the wider economy of the sub-region. Will the Minister reconsider what he just said about statutory redundancy? I want the maximum support given to those workers.
I will raise two other points. First, North Lincolnshire council published a green growth zone document last year about the future of the regional economy. As we discussed yesterday, I urge the Minister to consider an urgent meeting, at which all involved are brought in for a roundtable discussion. Secondly, if he is not doing so already, may I urge him to speak to his colleagues who are local government Ministers? North Lincolnshire council will lose £2.6 million in business rates. Needless to say, that is a massive blow that would affect the delivery of services.
Michael Shanks
I thank the hon. Gentleman for his questions, and for meeting me to discuss the matter yesterday. I appreciate the impact that the closure will have, not just on those refinery workers who are directly impacted, but on the wider economy. We absolutely appreciate that there are ripple effects from a closure like this.
On the statutory redundancy point, we have looked at this, and have pushed to see if there is more action that the Government can take to change or give additional payments. It is not possible for Government to do that, not least because the Insolvency Service has to follow specific rules on creditors and how they operate in the event of an insolvency. However, the owners of the company have profited from this business, and they should do the right thing by the workforce that delivered that for them.
I have agreed to hold a roundtable discussion, and I previously met the two council leaders to talk about this. I am happy to arrange that discussion, and to have it with whoever is useful and wants to participate, because the hon. Gentleman is right about the opportunities. I am happy to engage on the point about North Lincolnshire and business rates. Although the refinery will not continue to be a going concern, we are assessing bids from those who are interested in the site; we hope those bids will deliver jobs and economic benefit, and that business rates income will come from new industries on the site. That is not as good as retaining the refinery in its current form, but we hope we can make some progress.
Dr Scott Arthur (Edinburgh South West) (Lab)
I thank the Minister for his statement, and particularly for the news that there will be a thorough investigation. I have two quick questions. First, are the reports correct that the previous Government did not meet representatives of the sector for 13 years? I know the Minister said that he had met them recently. Secondly, families will be in crisis when they hear this news, and they will struggle to deal with it. Does he agree that the owner, who I understand is not short of money, has an absolute moral obligation to ensure that those families are supported? Statutory payments are welcome, but the moral obligation has to be made clear.
Michael Shanks
I thank my hon. Friend for both those points. My understanding from the sector and from the Department is that a meeting has not happened in the past 13 years. [Interruption.] If the right hon. Member for Louth and Horncastle (Victoria Atkins), on the Opposition Front Bench, wants to find me dates when her Government met the sector, I would be really happy to look at them, and at any minutes from those meetings. That would be helpful. There are particular issues for the sector, but also for individual refineries; some are more profitable than others, and some have transitioned to doing other pieces of work. It is important that they learn from one other, and that the Government do what they can.
On my hon. Friend’s final point, I agree that there is a moral obligation here. Having met the workers on the site, I know that they have done nothing wrong. They have worked hard over many years to keep the refinery going, and to deliver a profit. Those who have taken money out of that business should now do the right thing and fund those workers, and I hope that they will respond to my letter in due course.
Chris Law (Dundee Central) (SNP)
With the Grangemouth refinery in Scotland having closed, and Prax Lindsey facing the same fate, there is clearly a missing element in the UK Government’s just transition policy. There can be no just transition if skilled jobs are lost when that transition is made. What assurance can the Minister give that the Government have taken a wider view, in order to stem these closures and address what is clearly a deeper issue with policy?
Michael Shanks
I take the hon. Gentleman’s point about the importance of recognising that the most important thing to get right is the transition of workers. I have said that in other answers. That requires us to recognise that a transition is under way, and to put in place a plan, which has not happened in the past decade, during which we lost more than 70,000 workers in this industry. It is really important that we grapple with those issues, and it will not be easy. The starting point is to bring together everyone with an interest in this, as I have done—everyone from the trade unions and industry to those making the green investment that is driving this forward—to make sure that we deliver on jobs, and to make sure that training and support are in place, so that workers can transition. He raises an important point.
On the hon. Gentleman’s point about Grangemouth, it was not breaking news that Grangemouth was in a precarious position, and the previous Government could have done more to ensure a just transition there. I met the investment taskforce yesterday, along with my colleague Gillian Martin, the Energy Minister in the Scottish Government, to look at the prospects for the sites. There are some interesting propositions coming forward; there are 84 bids in total for £200 million from the National Wealth Fund, and I hope that we will have good news on jobs and investment in Grangemouth soon.
Graham Stuart (Beverley and Holderness) (Con)
I thank the Minister for his briefing yesterday, but there is a pattern developing, is there not? Some 800 jobs were created every single day in the 14 years of the Conservative Government, but unemployment has gone up every single day under this Labour Government. Some 400-plus jobs have been lost at Vivergo, on the north side of the Humber, and perhaps 600 jobs will be lost directly, and others lost indirectly, on the south side of the Humber. Can the Minister reassure those affected that this Government will not destroy our industrial base, and that there is a future for us, because it looks like we are heading in the wrong direction?
Michael Shanks
I will avoid the wider political points in a week when workers are finding out about job losses, because that is obviously devastating for them. I will just say that the Government have published their industrial strategy, and this is the first time the country has had an industrial strategy in a very long time. [Interruption.] Well, let us say a credible industrial strategy, if the right hon. Member for Beverley and Holderness (Graham Stuart) thinks he had one before. Again, I ask him to present it to me. We are investing in the industries of the future, and delivering thousands of jobs on the Humber and right across the country. We are making sure that investment comes forward in jobs for the future. [Interruption.] The problem with the right hon. Gentleman’s point is that his party opposes that investment. It opposes the very thing that will deliver the jobs of the future, and I am afraid that is simply an untenable position. Either he is for or against investment in jobs; he has to say which it is. The industrial strategy is the way to deliver that.
Carla Denyer (Bristol Central) (Green)
The last time we discussed Prax Lindsey, I asked the Minister to support my energy jobs Bill—a plan for the redeployment and retraining of oil and gas workers that is proactive and industry-wide rather than reactive and crisis by crisis, and that would be paid for by the companies. That is what the workers and the unions want, but the Minister said he did not agree with it. He has now said that the Government will fund a training guarantee for these refinery workers and is asking this company’s owners to make voluntary contributions to support workers. That is progress, but will he now turn this into a proactive and industry-wide plan, and please go beyond asking the company nicely to do the right thing and require it?
Michael Shanks
I think the hon. Lady slightly misses the point. The company went into insolvency. The workers are therefore entitled only to statutory redundancy. I do not think that that is acceptable, so I have called—not nicely, but directly—for the owners of that company to do the right thing, put their hands in their pockets and fund proper redundancy for those workers. That is separate from a wider piece of work we are doing around the transition. I think she also misses the point about the importance of delivering investment in oil and gas that is also investment in renewables and in carbon capture, utilisation and storage to deliver the jobs that come next, so that there is a transition for those workers. I have said that I do not support her proposal, and I am happy to say that again because it would do neither of those things. It is essential that we support the oil and gas industry in its current form, but recognise that it is in transition. We still have decades of oil and gas to come in this country, but we are already building up the industry that comes next. That needs investment, and it also needs us to build infrastructure, which many people in her party seem to oppose.
Bradley Thomas (Bromsgrove) (Con)
While the Minister is right to point out that this refinery produces a small amount of the UK’s refined fuel overall, the site does provide around 50% of the fuel into Warwickshire Oil Storage, a key site at Kingsbury in the west midlands that supplies fuel into the west midlands, which is obviously a very large demand centre. What is the Minister’s assessment of the impact on the supply and demand balance of road fuels in the west midlands as a result of this closure?
Michael Shanks
I am happy to follow up on anything specific with the hon. Gentleman, but I can tell him that I get daily updates on assessments on exactly that point. Clearly, the first week of the insolvency saw some disruption to supplies leaving, but our evidence pointed to the fact that those commercial contracts were able to be renegotiated and to adjust to that. We are continuing to monitor to ensure there is no disruption, and there is no assessment at the moment that would suggest any impact at all on fuel security. Clearly, we will continue to do that, and if I can follow up on specifics, I will do so.
Lee Anderson (Ashfield) (Reform)
What a pathetic turnout today from the party of the workers: just four Labour MPs have turned up to speak out on behalf of the Prax Lindsey workers. What I want to know from the Minister is if it is true that a foreign company has already been lined up to asset-strip and decommission this site—yes or no?
Michael Shanks
First, I think the hon. Gentleman is misjudging the mood of this question, which is about workers affected by redundancy. I hear nothing from him on those workers who are hearing the news this week. On his point, we assessed a number of bids for the business as a going concern. None of those bids were credible, which is why the official receivers made the decision to cease refining. Some bids are interested in parts of the site for a range of different things, but I am not party to those bids. They are commercially sensitive bids that will be assessed on the basis of how many jobs can be retained and the industrial opportunities on that site, which is what we are driving forward. I would just say to him that spreading nonsense and rumours, either in this House or on social media, does absolutely nothing to support the workers on that site.
Harriet Cross (Gordon and Buchan) (Con)
I have listened closely to the Minister’s answers, and he is rightly highlighting the importance of the jobs and the redundancies, but I think we need to be a bit clearer and more open with people about what the new jobs in the renewables sector that the Minister refers to are about. These jobs are not comparable to a lot of the ones that will be lost in the oil and gas sector. A lot of them are not full-time jobs; a lot of them are part time or temporary jobs during construction phases. We are losing a huge number of workers across the country, and we will continue to do so because of the Government’s policies on oil and gas and the speed at which the sector is being demolished. Can the Minister please outline directly to these workers across the country, whether at Prax or in the north-east, how their jobs will be supported into the future? I am talking about comparable full-time jobs, not just the temporary ones.
Michael Shanks
A key objective of this Government is to deliver good, well-paid trade-unionised jobs, and we have been driving that forward. My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State has been pushing on trade union recognition, partly to ensure that terms and conditions in the clean energy industry are as good as those in, for example, the oil and gas industry. We will continue to push on that, and we have already had some successes.
I gently say that the investment going into clean energy that is delivering thousands of jobs and will deliver tens of thousands of new jobs across the country comes against a backdrop of opposition from the Conservatives on Great British Energy in the north-east of Scotland delivering those jobs. We are also announcing today the final investment decision on Sizewell C—10,000 jobs are being created in nuclear after years of dither and delay by the hon. Member’s party. We are getting on with doing this, and we will do everything we can to ensure those jobs are comparable on terms and conditions and pay. I say to her that if she wants these jobs to be created, she should support some of the policies that will deliver them in the first place.
Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)
I thank the Minister for his answers. Bearing in mind that the refinery was responsible for supplying some 10% of British fuel—fuel for the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland—it is absolutely essential that a way forward is found, and found quickly. Part of that solution must be a common-sense approach to using fossil fuels. What discussions has the Minister had with his Cabinet colleagues to provide a long-term assurance that there is a future for this refinery, even at this eleventh hour, so it can be sold as a going concern, as it should?
Michael Shanks
The Government have pushed, over the past four weeks we have been aware of this issue, to try to find a route whereby the refinery can continue as a going concern. That was obviously our No. 1 objective. The official receiver assessed the bids that were made and found that none were viable to deliver that. The Government are not going to nationalise this refinery—we are not in the business of nationalising loss-making businesses—so, unfortunately, that is not a route we will take. But we have done everything we can, and what we now want to do is assess the bids for the future of the site to see what the maximalist approach is that, crucially, will keep as many jobs on the site as possible, but also will deliver on the industrial opportunities of that site for the wider community. We will continue to have those conversations.
Birmingham Bin Strikes
(1 year ago)
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Ayoub Khan (Birmingham Perry Barr) (Ind)
(Urgent Question): To ask the Secretary of State for Housing, Communities and Local Government if she will make a statement on the Government’s response to the Birmingham bin strikes.
The Minister for Local Government and English Devolution (Jim McMahon)
Members will be aware of the continuing disruption caused by industrial action in Birmingham. I want to be clear that Birmingham city council is an independent employer and that this dispute is between the council and Unite the trade union. The Government are rightly not a party to it, but of course we have an interest in it, recognising the impact on local residents. This Government’s priority remains Birmingham residents, and we will continue to support the council to keep Birmingham’s streets clear while the dispute remains ongoing. Thousands of tons of waste have been removed, and routine collections have been restored. The council continues to monitor the situation closely to ensure that waste does not build up again.
The background to the dispute is the historical equal pay issues the council has faced, which have been the source of one of the largest equal pay crises in modern UK history, and that has to be front of mind. The council has been in negotiation for many months, making a fair and reasonable offer to Unite and being clear about the need to protect its equal pay position. The union rejected the council’s offer. The council has worked hard to offer options to affected workers, including a transfer into other roles in the council on the same grade and, in some cases, to upskill those workers in scope. An enhanced voluntary redundancy package is also available for those who wish to leave the service, and there has already been significant uptake.
Given the union’s rejection of the offer, as of last week, the council is now entering a period of consultation to resolve the dispute while protecting its equal pay position. I urge the union to work with the council on a sustainable way forward that is fair to workers in the council and to the residents of Birmingham.
Finally, hon. Members may be aware that earlier today Max Caller announced that he is retiring as lead commissioner in Birmingham, and I wish him well for the future. Tony McArdle OBE has today been appointed by the Secretary of State as the new lead commissioner, and he will take up his position tomorrow. Tony brings a huge wealth of expertise, and I am confident that he will continue to deliver on the recovery plan to secure improvements for Birmingham’s residents.
Ayoub Khan
The bin strikes in Birmingham have now dragged on for over four months, and Birmingham’s 1.1 million residents are paying the price. The Government have repeatedly scapegoated bin workers, yet they refuse to address the root cause and real reason why residents have seen their public services crumble and their council tax bills rise by 21%. At the heart of this crisis lies 13 years of mismanagement and incompetence under a Labour-run council. The Minister wants to blame the equal pay settlement for cuts, but conveniently forgets that the council has had this settlement looming for over a decade. Over 13 years, there has been endless council waste: an athlete’s village that housed not a single athlete sold off at a loss of £320 million, £216 million spent on an IT system that failed, and £53 million spent on consultants. Now the Government stand idly by while their own council cuts up to £8,000 from bin workers. This Government should be defending frontline workers, not their own incompetent council.
The biggest betrayal is the Government’s deliberate downplaying of their involvement. For months, Ministers claimed that this was a local issue, yet it is now clear that Government-appointed commissioners must approve any deal. Just last week, the commissioners rejected a deal that could have ended the strike, despite the council’s managing director being inclined to accept it. The misery in Birmingham has been prolonged not by the workers, but by the commissioners and therefore the Government. This Government have the power to end the strike, and yet they have actively dragged their heels in reaching a deal. That raises serious questions about the Government’s commitment to workers’ rights. The council’s action amounts to fire and rehire. With the Government’s role in these negotiations, we must ask: are they complicit in aiding and abetting the very practices they are legislating to ban?
Finally, will the Minister confirm that the Government have the power to remove the commissioners who are blocking a deal? Will he personally commit to opposing the fire and rehire practices that the council is using?
Jim McMahon
I hear the hon. Member’s charac-terisation of the issue, but it bears no relationship at all to the reality of the situation. The council is an independent employer. It is not for the Government to go council by council negotiating trade union disputes or terms and condition changes. It is for the councils themselves as the employers to negotiate with their workforces, and that is exactly the same in Birmingham as for other councils, as he knows. The commissioners are of course appointed by Government and have to act with professional expertise in giving advice to the local authority on whether its plans are affordable and lawful, but the negotiations are taking place between the council itself, and Unite the trade union and the council’s workforce.
On this idea that we are scapegoating the workers in this dispute, no party has done more for workers’ rights than Labour. No Government have done more on workers’ rights in a generation than this Government, headed by the Deputy Prime Minister. When I hear Members of this House talking in a way that degrades that, that is a complete and absolute failure to accept not just the legacy we inherited as a Government—that includes, by the way, Birmingham city council and its local taxpayers—but our determination to put that right.
Finally, of course Birmingham could and should have made some big financial decisions much earlier. That is a matter of fact, and that is why commissioners are in there today. But the local government finance settlement had an increase in core spending power of 9.8%—that is, £131 million of additional money into Birmingham. That included the largest settlement through the recovery grant of any council in the country.
David Simmonds (Ruislip, Northwood and Pinner) (Con)
As the hon. Member for Birmingham Perry Barr (Ayoub Khan) alluded to, the House knows that the origins of the dispute in Birmingham are in the 2017 settlement of the equal pay arrangements, which created a £760 million liability for that local authority under the Labour party, and which have been undermined at every turn by the relationship between Labour’s administration in Birmingham and the unions. It is clear that that local authority and its leadership have been dodging scrutiny and accountability at every turn. They refused even to debate the local authority Conservative group’s proposals for a plan to end the strikes and clean up the city.
I have a series of questions for the Minister. What guidance will he give his seven-strong commissioner team to bring about an end to the strikes? What public health assessment are the Government carrying out of the impact of more than 21,000 tonnes of uncollected rubbish and a huge increase in the rat population in Birmingham? Will he consider withdrawing the facility time for Unite the union, which is currently refusing to go about the process of bringing an end to the strikes? Will he tell his commissioners—including Tony McArdle, whose appointment has been announced today—that Birmingham’s besieged households must not be held to ransom by the unions for a day longer? Will he tell the House who he thinks has failed the households of Birmingham more? Is it the Labour council, in leaving rats on the streets and 21,000 tonnes of uncollected rubbish in a heatwave, or this Government, who have failed to intervene to bring an end to this blight on residents’ lives?
Jim McMahon
I thank the hon. Gentleman for his questions, which I will try to answer in turn. Let me say, though, that we will take no lectures at all from the party that was in government for 14 years and saw the downgrading of local authorities across the country, including in Birmingham.
Although these are our commissioners, as the hon. Gentleman says—that is correct: they are Government appointed—let us not forget which Government appointed them. They were appointed on the watch of the previous Government. Today we are just announcing a change in the lead commissioner. We need to be careful not to politicise those people, who believe in public service and are helping out the local authority and supporting the Government in trying to turn that council around. Let us leave the politicisation of the commissioners to one side and deal with the facts.
Last time I was in the Chamber, the Conservatives were talking down the role of bin workers, as if somehow that work was degrading. At that time, I think they were suggesting that the armed forces might be brought in to collect waste and that that would somehow degrade their role. That was never going to be the case, but it was a glimpse into how the Conservatives view the workers who are affected. One thing that is absolutely certain is that the Labour party believes in the power of frontline workers and in the importance of these frontline roles. We absolutely value the role of refuse collectors, and we see the implications of waste not being collected. But we have got to be clear, too, that whatever settlement is on the table has to be lawful and affordable, and it cannot cross the red line of undermining the equal pay negotiations that are taking place. I hope that we can agree at least on that basis.
Madam Deputy Speaker (Judith Cummins)
I call the Chair of the Housing, Communities and Local Government Committee.
Florence Eshalomi (Vauxhall and Camberwell Green) (Lab/Co-op)
I thank the Minister for outlining the Government’s work to maintain vital collection services for residents, who want to see their city cleaned up rather than another summer of this, given the recent heatwave.
Strike action has now passed the six-month mark. As the Minister just outlined, it is important that we consider the hardship felt by many of the striking workers. Many of them do not want to politicise this; they just want to do the right thing by their families. One recently told the BBC:
“Morale’s quite low… Everyone’s trying to stay strong and together, but it is very difficult. The union has tried to help us out with strike pay, but for a lot of people it doesn’t cover their…bills. It puts a massive strain on our family. Kids, money—money’s tight, credit cards are maxed out”.
Nobody should be put in that position. I hear the Minister’s calls for the commissioners, Birmingham and the unions to resolve this issue, but what more can he and the Government do to bring everyone around the table so that we can finally bring an end to the dispute?
Jim McMahon
I thank the Chair of the Select Committee for her comments—we agree on much. She speaks to why a resolution on this issue is so important. At the heart of this, there are working people with rent and mortgages to pay, who want a resolution. To be clear, the council has been in negotiations over many months and has made a fair and reasonable offer to Unite, which, unfortunately, the union rejected. The council has also worked hard to offer options to affected workers, including their transfer to other roles in the council at the same grade, and, in some cases, has agreed to upskill in-scope workers. A generous redundancy package is available for those who wish to leave the service; we have seen an uptake in that. In the end, none of us wants this to roll on indefinitely; we want to see a resolution for the affected workers and for the taxpayers of Birmingham, who quite rightly expect their local public services to be delivered to a good standard.
Gideon Amos (Taunton and Wellington) (LD)
Birmingham wants its refuse and recycling service back as quickly as possible to end the risks to public health and the environment, especially in the most densely populated parts of the city. The Liberal Democrats pay tribute to the volunteers and emergency services, who were out there cleaning up the city by dealing with refuse, waste pile-ups and fly-tipping while the council and unions could not agree and continued clashing hammer and tongs.
For years under the previous Conservative Government, councils were expected to do more and more with less and less, and that has borne fruit in Birmingham and many other places. The Government must now grasp the nettle and tackle that funding crisis, particularly in social care and local government generally, so that what is happening in Birmingham does not spread across the country. Given that one-off clean-ups have cost the council £3.9 million already, is it not time for the Government to fund a complete clean-up of the remaining refuse so that residents do not have to foot the bill and spend the rest of the summer living alongside disgusting rubbish. Will any clean-up ensure that waste is properly dealt with and recycled where possible, given that the city is already ranked third from bottom in waste recycling?
Jim McMahon
The hon. Gentleman makes fair observations about the funding crisis in local government, but it would be remiss of me not to take him back to the coalition years, which started austerity in local government. The Liberal Democrats were not just casual observers of the demise of local government but active participants in it. In those very first years, when the cuts really bit for local authorities, they aided and abetted.
Our job, after 14 years of the impacts of those decisions, is to find a way through, and we are getting on with that. We are rebuilding the foundations of local government. We have announced a consultation on the fair funding review, which will see a redistribution of funding across the country towards the areas of high deprivation that need it most. We are taking into account all the different service pressures. We are grasping the nettle on the structural changes needed in devolution and reorganisation to ensure that the sector is fit, legal and decent at the end of the process, and we are repairing the broken audit market alongside that. We are getting on with repairing the foundations of local government, but we need to be clear that this is a localised dispute, and of course we do not want to see it impact on local people.
I say to the House—because I have heard this a number of times and should have called out the first example—that there are not tens of thousands of tonnes of waste accumulating on the streets of Birmingham. That was the case, and it was dealt with efficiently. In most cases, collections are taking place for most households at most times, and there is not the accumulation of the type we saw earlier. Clearly, the situation is fragile and we do not want it to return to how it was, which is why we remain in regular contact with the council.
Laurence Turner (Birmingham Northfield) (Lab)
I welcome the appointment of the new lead commissioner. As the Minister knows, we have had many discussions about the intervention, including at times from a place of concern. I look forward to working constructively with Tony McArdle on behalf of the citizens of Birmingham. I draw attention to my entry in the Register of Members’ Financial Interests in respect of the GMB and Unison unions, which are the claimant unions in the equal pay case in Birmingham.
I feel compelled to round out the partial account that we have heard today in the Chamber. Will the Minister confirm that by far the largest share of Birmingham’s equal pay liability of more than £1 billion was incurred when the Conservatives and Liberal Democrats ran the city, and that over the past decade to 2024, Birmingham suffered the sharpest reduction in spending power of any unitary authority in the country, with devastating consequences for every constituency in Birmingham?
Jim McMahon
That is a fair point. I forgot that the hon. Member for Birmingham Perry Barr (Ayoub Khan) had a brief stint as a Liberal Democrat councillor. Actually, the people of Birmingham want us to put the party politics to one side. I think what matters to local people is, first, that they are treated fairly when it comes to local council tax levels and, secondly, that they get a good level of public service for the tax that they pay.
As my hon. Friend the Member for Birmingham Northfield (Laurence Turner) rightly says, there has to be accountability. It is a matter of fact that some of these big decisions should have been taken much earlier, and that goes back to the Conservative and Liberal Democrat-run council. His fundamental point about the importance of equal pay and the liabilities, which are big numbers because of the size of the council and the historic issues there, cannot be undermined. The worst outcome of this dispute would be that a decision is made for the short term that does not address the medium and long term, completely unravels the equal pay negotiations and, by doing that, undermines the women workers in scope.
Sir Andrew Mitchell (Sutton Coldfield) (Con)
I commend my parliamentary neighbour, the hon. Member for Birmingham Perry Barr (Ayoub Khan), for bringing this urgent question to the House before it rises. I also pay tribute to Max Caller, whose retirement has been announced in the last few hours; he has dispatched his Herculean task with considerable distinction.
The Minister will be aware that Labour is now imposing the contract, which the Conservative Opposition leader, Councillor Bobby Alden, urged the Labour leadership to do a year ago. Does he understand that my constituents in the royal town of Sutton Coldfield, who come under Birmingham for local government purposes, have had their patience tried beyond endurance by this bankrupt Labour council? Is he aware that recent polling suggests that only 5% of Birmingham residents are likely to vote Labour next May? My constituents—and, I have no doubt, those of the hon. Member for Birmingham Perry Barr—are counting the days until next May comes and we can get rid of this dreadful council.
Jim McMahon
I thank the right hon. Member for taking my advice and not making this party political—a bit more refining and we will get there in the end.
Surely the right hon. Member would expect that the local authority would enter a trade union negotiation in good faith and would go as far as it can lawfully go in making a settlement offer that respects the workers who are losing pay as a result of equal pay, because that is surely the right thing to do. I hope he would not expect the council to disregard that entirely. The council rightly cares about its workforce, not least because many of them will be Birmingham city residents themselves, and it wants to make sure that it supports that process. The council, like us, was not happy that the offer was rejected by the union, but that is not to say that we cannot use this time for the conversation to continue, so that we can reach a resolution that puts the people of Birmingham first.
Jeremy Corbyn (Islington North) (Ind)
Could the Minister explain this? I understand the issues of equal pay, and I think equal pay is essential, important and legally necessary, but what we have here is a reduction in pay for a significant group of workers. How can they possibly be held responsible for the financial problems that Birmingham city council has? Is their case not entirely justified—that they are protecting their own wages and conditions, as any good trade union would do in any negotiations? Cannot he simply accept and understand that, and that be the basis on which a settlement is agreed, so that they can return to work?
Jim McMahon
The way the right hon. Member starts is where I would hope most local authorities do when looking at equal pay, but the reality is that there will always be winners and losers in equal pay where women have been underpaid for a long time. Councils have options here: they can either compensate and pay upwards for all the female workers in post to the comparable male worker, which for most councils in most circumstances will not be affordable, because there are huge sums attached to that; or, to make a package affordable, they have to equalise it out in consultation with the trade unions. That is exactly what has happened in Birmingham.
The issue in Birmingham is very particular to the waste service, where a previous agreement was reached that honestly does not hold when assessed against equal pay in terms of the tasks that are carried out by those workers. In the end, it does not pass the equal pay test, but that is not to say that we are not urging the council and Unite the trade union to continue negotiations to resolve this. We absolutely want the right outcome for the workers and the residents of Birmingham.
Shockat Adam (Leicester South) (Ind)
I, too, thank my hon. Friend the Member for Birmingham Perry Barr (Ayoub Khan) for tabling this urgent question. I also thank the Minister for his answers, and I sympathise with his position, but replacing this workforce, policing the dispute and paying the legal fees has cost the already overstretched council £4 million. All the while, the good people of Birmingham—the very people who voted in a Labour council and many Labour Members of Parliament—are living in foul misery. Does the Minister agree that it would save millions of pounds, improve our relationship with the dedicated bin workers and restore a basic necessity to the people of Birmingham if he intervened to get us out of this stink?
Jim McMahon
Our starting point, of course, is that we want all parties to negotiate in good faith, and we want the local authority to do its best to table a deal that goes as far as it can go, but the red line has to be that it cannot compromise and completely unravel the equal pay negotiations that have taken place, to which all the trade unions—not just Unite—have been a party. Therein lies the issue.
The hon. Member could rightly say—I think this is what he indicates—“Surely you just pay what it takes to resolve the issue with the striking bin workers,” but for the equal pay package to hold, a comparable payment would need to be made to all the female workers in scope, so the numbers he talks about are fantasyland. They are not single-digit millions; they are tens or hundreds of millions of pounds, which goes above both legality and affordability for the local authority. We have urged the council to negotiate in good faith with the trade union and to go as far as it can go, provided that it is lawful, affordable and does not undermine the equal pay liability so far.
Iqbal Mohamed (Dewsbury and Batley) (Ind)
I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Birmingham Perry Barr (Ayoub Khan) on tabling this urgent question and thank the Minister for his response. The Birmingham bin strikes are not just about waste. They are about what happens when the state retreats from local services without proper reform. The UK must confront the legacy of austerity, rethink how local government is funded and run and treat frontline workers with the respect and fairness they deserve. Failure to do so risks further breakdowns in public services and public trust not just in Birmingham but all over our country. Will the Minister explain what steps the Government are taking to analyse how we got into this mess in the first place and to ensure that no other council faces the same situation anywhere in our country?
Jim McMahon
We have to accept that there are some issues here that are unique to Birmingham. For instance, many councils across England dealt with equal pay over a decade ago, and Birmingham did not, which is why the liabilities have escalated in the way they have.
On the hon. Member’s fundamental point about fair funding and ensuring that local public services can be rebuilt, we can agree. We believe that most people’s local neighbourhood services have been impacted so heavily by not only austerity but the growth in demand in adult’s, children’s and temporary accommodation that we have to completely rethink both how we fund local government and how we reinvest back into prevention and early intervention to prevent that crisis management model.
Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)
I thank the Minister for his answers and wish him well in his endeavours to enable a solution to be found. The Government have stated that they are committed to a “sustainable resolution” to the severe backlog of uncollected waste and the ongoing pay dispute. The workers state that they face cuts of some £8,000 per year, which would be a devastating loss for those with families and responsibilities. Will the Minister acknowledge that reducing current wages is not the way forward and that the Government must intervene now, to make workers feel worthwhile and to sustain trust between the council and the workers?
Jim McMahon
Whoever is negotiating in this environment will have the same guardrails as the local authority does. The local authority has to be mindful of the equal pay package that it has agreed with all the trade unions, and it cannot do anything in this very narrow dispute—however impactful it is on the workers and local residents—that means completely unravelling the equal pay package. I share the hon. Member’s concern about the impact, but it is important that the local authority and Unite the trade union continue those talks and try to find a resolution. With that being the final question, Madam Deputy Speaker, may I wish you and other Members of the House a peaceful recess?